1 John 4:5 - 21
F.E.R. It appears to me that chapters 3 and 4 show us the abiding conditions in which life consists, and which cannot be set aside.
D.L.H. Do you refer on the one hand to freedom from sin and death and on the other to the love of God?
F.E.R. Yes. Freedom from sin hangs upon the fact that we abide in Christ in whom is no sin, and you are out of death because you are in the christian circle where the love of Christ gives impulse. Then chapter 4 brings out all the conditions in which we live.
W.J. The fatness of the house of God?
F.E.R. It is that as far as it goes, but I mean more conditions which are essential to our living; human life is subject to certain conditions into which one is born, and it is in principle the same with eternal life. The difference between the gospel of John and the epistle, is that the gospel is essentially subjective, and refers to the work of God in the believer but the epistle gives us the conditions in which eternal life consists, which are abiding. No one of us is abiding, we are all liable to be removed in death, but eternal life abides continually by the very fact of its being eternal. People may come and go in this world, but the conditions of life never change. The sun never changes, the atmosphere and the light never change.
Ques. Your thought of eternal life is connected with environment then?
F.E.R. Yes. It is the conditions in which you live, and those conditions are unchanging. That is what you get in this epistle.
Ques. Then in this chapter do you get what is objective?
F.E.R. Yes. And so too in the previous chapter. The great point in the previous chapter is the place of Christ,
what you may call the sun. I use it in the way of a figure and then you get another thing, that is, the christian circle, the brethren, where the love of Christ gives impulse. There is a circle down here which is affected by the love of Christ. It is a great thing to apprehend the divinely appointed conditions which are permanent and unchanging -- which cannot be moved.
J.McK. They go on for ever, I suppose.
J.McK. Why do you say you think so?
F.E.R. Because I do not want to attempt to limit God. God says in Revelation 21:5, "Behold, I make all things new" and God may see fit to change things -- for the better, of course. The new heavens and the new earth will be better than what is. I think the Revelation gives that idea.
Rem. You cannot have anything better than the love of God.
F.E.R. No, but the application of the love of God will be a little different, because things will be changed in regard to us -- we shall be past the judgment seat, and we shall be with God, in His own abode.
Ques. We shall not be held responsible to love one another then?
F.E.R. No. Again you certainly will not want boldness in the day of judgment in heaven. It seems to me to be very important for believers to apprehend what God has ordained, and which no power can change. To me it is a very great comfort to get to what is permanent and durable.
Ques. When it speaks in verse 17 of the "day of judgment", does it refer to the judgment resting on the world?
F.E.R. No. It refers to its application to us. The apostle did not care to be judged of man's day -- "do not judge anything before the time" 1 Corinthians 4:5, he said, the time is coming.
Ques. You would say these things are unchanging because they flow from the very nature of God?
F.E.R. Yes, and because they are what God has ordained. For instance, God has set the sun in heaven, and nothing can change that, and so God has set the christian circle down here -- people pass out of it, but nothing can set it aside. Then the divine light which comes out in this chapter, that cannot be changed. It is all unchangeable, immutable. People may pass off the scene and others come on, but things into which we have properly come cannot be changed.
Ques. We are come into light and life?
F.E.R. We are come into things which God has ordained. We abide in Christ the Sun of righteousness, and He is always abiding and what hangs on that is that there is a circle down here, in which the love of Christ gives impulse. "We have passed from death into life, because we love the brethren" that is an abiding circle.
Ques. Do you exclude any subjective thought in the expression of eternal life?
F.E.R. Yes, because it is wholly objective, though it is intimately connected with our state. Take a new-born child. It is nourished with food, by which its constitution is built up, but there are certain conditions into which it is born, which are essential to its life -- I mean the sun, the atmosphere, and so on. These conditions are always existing.
Ques. So you speak of life and conditions of life?
Ques. Do you not draw a distinction between life and eternal life?
F.E.R. Yes. Eternal life refers to the conditions which are immutable and abiding. Life is connected with the believer in a general way. We have heard the voice of the Son of God, and having heard His voice, we live and then in a kind of way we are nourished with bread. That is what you get in chapters 5 and 6 of John.
Ques. You would speak of that as subjective state?
F.E.R. Yes. That is what comes out in the gospel.
D.L.H. I think there is a difficulty in some minds in regard of what you get in the gospel where eternal life is
mentioned -- such as John 3:16 and John 5:24. Will you say a word in regard to this?
F.E.R. In chapter 3 the Lord is speaking from the divine standpoint -- I mean as to what was in the thought and love of God. "God so loved the world" verse 16. It is a revelation -- it is light coming out, the divine thought in regard of the world.
D.L.H. So what we get there is the believer -- the person who has eternal life.
F.E.R. Yes. It is the "whosoever" -- the believing person, whoever he might be, Jew or gentile, was to come into it. So too in chapter 5, it is "he that hears my word, and believes him that has sent me", verse 24, that is the kind of person who has eternal life. The same thing runs throughout the gospel, it is the kind of person who is in view, and the gospel gives the subjective side.
Ques. Does the person get it by believing?
F.E.R. No. The Lord brings this out in chapter 4 of John. "The water that I shall give him ... everlasting life", verse 14. Until a man is a believer he would not get the living water, but then the well of water in the believer springs up into everlasting life. The great point in the epistle is that you might enter into it. You could not be conscious that you have it unless you have entered into it. I should not be conscious that I have entered into my house, unless I have entered into it. The apostle unfolds the conditions in which eternal life subsists, so that you may see what they are, and having entered in, you are conscious that you have eternal life.
Ques. Why is eternal life put in contrast to not perishing?
F.E.R. Because it is either one thing or the other. Certain conditions have come in in connection with the revelation of God in Christ, and it is either on the one hand the entering into eternal life, or on the other hand, being under death.
Ques. You said there was a difference between life and eternal life. Do you think it is life in the gospel?
F.E.R. Yes. It is not that the expression 'eternal life' does not occur, but the prevailing thought in the gospel is the state of the person and that is life. It is the fruit of a divine work. If I am a subject of God's work, which has brought about in me a certain state, it is life. "I am come that they might have life, and might have it abundantly", John 10:10.
Ques. Is life very abundantly eternal life?
F.E.R. No. I think it refers to the state of the believer. You get life in divine power -- in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Ques. Then eternal life is an expression which speaks of the conditions in which those who have life live?
F.E.R. Yes. I only judge that because you continually get the thought -- "springing up into everlasting life", "entering into it", "laying hold on it". It is the end unto which you endure. The man reaps it. It is continually presented in that way by all the writers -- Paul and John and others.
Ques. Do we not come into the good of it apart from the Spirit?
F.E.R. The Spirit springs up into eternal life -- "the water that I shall give ... springing up into eternal life". I think the work of the Spirit in the believer is to enable you to apprehend the divinely appointed conditions, because those conditions are not seen, they are not true to sight. The Spirit springs up in the believer, enabling him to enter into and appreciate the conditions which God has established and which are immutable.
Ques. How do we get eternal life?
F.E.R. The scripture tells you that the Spirit is a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
Ques. Is eternal life for down here?
J.McK. In dealing sometimes with anxious souls, one is very apt to turn to John 5:24. Do you think it is right to do so?
F.E.R. I think you would be going on a little too
fast with the anxious soul. You must remember that no young convert can really be anything but a babe. I would not say it is not right to turn to a scripture of that sort. It is a question to me if it is wise. You will not get a person free from the thought of judgment until you come to 1 John 4. The only thing which will dispel the thought of judgment is the knowledge of the love of God (see verses 17, 18).
Ques. What is the great thing to be gained by the gospel?
F.E.R. I have no doubt that what a person is to get through the gospel is living water, and scripture closes with that -- "He that will, let him take the water of life freely". I think that is the great end and purpose of the gospel.
Ques. That is one of the ends?
F.E.R. I do not think there is any other end. The great thing is living water. It involves everything. You must get the foundations right first -- righteousness and salvation, but evidently the great object in preaching the gospel is that man may receive from Christ what Christ gives -- living water. Having got the Spirit, you reap eternal life.
Ques. Will you say a word in regard to boldness in the day of judgment?
F.E.R. It is boldness in regard to the day of judgment.
Rem. It does not give the idea that believers are coming into judgment.
F.E.R. No. I think you have boldness in regard to the day of judgment.
Ques. "As he is", verse 17. What is the force of that?
F.E.R. I always connect it with the end of Romans 8:38, where the apostle says, "For I am persuaded ..". You have got into the part of Romans where the purpose of God is brought into a new circle where all is of God, a circle which is in the full light of divine love, where the love of God rests. I am there -- "as he is, we also are in this world" and hence I am not terrified now by the
thought of the day of judgment.
Ques. But in the latter part of Romans 8 things have been traced to their source, have they not?
F.E.R. Yes, and so they have in this fourth chapter of 1 John. "Herein as to us has been manifested the love of God ... that we might live through him", verse 9.
Ques. So that if there is life there is nothing to judge?
F.E.R. No. Yet there is our responsibility of course down here. We must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, but then, in regard to that we have boldness "because as he is, we also are in this world", verse 17. The thought of the day of judgment may come before the mind of the believer, but then the great point is that that should not produce fear, because love is made perfect in us, for we are in the same love in which Christ is. Nothing can separate "us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord", Romans 8:39.
Ques. What is the force of the expression, "Herein has love been perfected with us"?
F.E.R. I think it is that there should be no ground for fear. It is the place in which God has set us in Christ.
Rem. We used to limit it to acceptance.
F.E.R. It goes beyond that. It is "the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them", John 17:26.
Ques. But this is learned experimentally, is it not?
F.E.R. I think so. I think the latter part of the chapter comes out and opens out the full blaze of divine love. The earlier part reads "as to us has been manifested the love of God ... that we might live through him", verse 9. Then it goes on to say, in verse 16 "we have known and have believed the love which God has to us". Then "Herein has love been perfected with us that we may have boldness in the day of judgment;" verse 17.
Ques. If it is judgment, it raises the question of righteousness, does it?
F.E.R. Yes, but the point is that the righteousness has so been established in regard to God, that He can put you in association with Christ, and the thought of being manifested before the judgment seat cannot alter that
Ques. "We might live through him", verse 9. Does the 'him' refer to Christ looked at as the second man?
F.E.R. Yes, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit, through whom we live.
Ques. What is the force of verse 14?
F.E.R. The apostle was in the full secret of divine love toward the world, and he had communion in the love of God for the world -- it is evangelical. If you come into the light of divine love, you must accept its application not only individually to you, but towards the whole world.
W.J. That shows the company should be evangelical.
Rem. This chapter, I suppose, contemplates the whole christian circle irrespective of growth.
F.E.R. I think it contemplates the light of God, into which all the christian circle should enter.
Rem. And in that sense the whole christian circle would have eternal life.
F.E.R. It is there for them. The point is that they should be in it so far as their consciousness is concerned.
Ques. What is the force of confessing Jesus as the Son of God?
F.E.R. There is the apprehension of Him as the Beginning and centre of a new order.
D.L.H. It is very clear that this epistle was written that we might know that we have eternal life.
F.E.R. The great point is to make clear to christians the conditions which God has appointed, and which subsist, and which nothing can move nor alter and in that way deliver them from the world. That is what I should seek to do. The object of all ministry is only to make clear to people what is subsisting -- what you may call, the unseen things. You want to make these things clear to people so that their souls may enter into them.
F.E.R. I suppose this chapter is in a kind of way supplementary.
D.L.H. Would you mind giving just an outline in a few words of what has preceded, in order that we might know what it is supplementary to?
F.E.R. I think what has been mainly before the apostle in chapters 3 and 4, is the unfolding of the eternal life -- the connection in which we are blessed. This chapter is supplementary to the witness. That is, the Son of God is come and God has established a witness here to His Son. The fact that we have eternal life really becomes witness to the Son of God. "God hath given ... Son" (verse 11). The Son of God is come -- it is not that He is coming, but He has come.
D.L.H. Then the saints down here become a vessel in which this testimony is maintained?
F.E.R. I think so. Properly, eternal life abides in them and is in that sense a witness to the Son of God. All the conditions in which eternal life consists could not possibly come in except by the Son of God and the very fact of our being placed in this blessing is witness to the Son of God. You could not conceive anything more important than the thought of the witness which God has set here to His Son.
J.S.O. There are two thoughts connected with it -- the Spirit, the water and the blood in verse 8, and then in verse 10, "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself".
F.E.R. Yes and then it also says, "This is the witness of God which he has witnessed concerning his Son" (verse 9).
J.S.O. Then you make it two witnesses?
F.E.R. Yes. They have their application to the believer, but the testimony is to the effect that the Son
of God is come. We are brought into eternal life and that life is in His Son -- hence there is of necessity a witness here to God's Son.
D.L.H. "Hath the witness in himself": is the idea of that in regard to testimony?
F.E.R. No, I do not think so. The witness there refers to the Spirit.
B. Do you connect that with profession?
F.E.R. Well, I think in a sense we have the Spirit.
D.L.H. Then the Spirit, water and blood (verse 8) are eternal witnesses and in verse 10 the Spirit is within -- an eternal witness, is it not?
F.E.R. It is very important to apprehend what the believer has in himself. He has the witness in himself, that is, the Spirit.
D.L.H. That has no particular reference to personal assurance has it?
F.E.R. That is not the point here. The point is that he has got the witness in himself that the Son of God is come. Then you get the other witnesses too -- the Spirit, water and blood. No one realises the water and blood except by the Spirit.
C. Is it the Spirit's presence here upon earth that is referred to in verse 8?
F.E.R. Yes, but of course you could not disconnect the thought of the Spirit from indwelling, because there must be a vessel for the Spirit, He has not become incarnate.
Ques. The fact that the Spirit is here is a witness?
Ques. Would you say that this is giving effect here now to that which is spoken of by the Lord in John 16?
F.E.R. I do not think it goes so far as that. It says, "He will shew you things to come" (John 16:13), and "All things that the Father has are mine" (John 16:15). I rather think this chapter does not go so far as that. The gospel is far greater than the epistle in its bearing.
Ques. I suppose it is true that eternal life waited for the Son of God -- it could not have been here before the
F.E.R. No, it is the Son of God that brings it in.
Ques. The consciousness of the knowledge that He is come is eternal life?
F.E.R. Well, I think He has brought in all the conditions of eternal life which no one could do except the Son of God.
D.L.H. Would you say again what the conditions are -- I think it will help us?
F.E.R. I think you must get attachment and rule to begin with. The second condition is atmosphere, and thirdly light. These are what I should call the conditions of eternal life.
D.L.H. Do you say attachment and rule?
F.E.R. Yes. I do not mean in the sense of feeling, but as a bond, like the moon attached to the earth. You must get that, else you would have lawlessness. The first thing to overcome is lawlessness, the second thing to overcome is death; and the third thing is to bring the saints into the full light of God.
D.L.H. First you get the kingdom.
F.E.R. Not exactly. The kingdom is essential to it all, but the kingdom is not to my mind the thought of attachment or a bond.
D.L.H. But in the kingdom you get what you have been speaking of -- the Sun of righteousness.
F.E.R. I do not think that is the kingdom. The Sun of righteousness is normal, the kingdom recognises what is abnormal.
D.L.H. But I thought that the glory of His Person was the great point -- that He becomes the attractive object to attach hearts to Himself.
F.E.R. Yes, but that is all normal so far as I understand it. Christ will be the Sun and centre of the universe of bliss, when all kingdom has come to an end -- when there is no necessity for the kingdom.
D.L.H. But in a certain sense those two run side by side?
J.S.O. Would you not say 'rule' is one of the conditions of eternal life?
J.S.O. You are not looking at it subjectively in us?
F.E.R. No, you come under the influence of Christ, as you get in Matthew 11 -- "Come unto me, all ye that labour". That is the only way we can escape lawlessness -- by coming under the rule of Christ. If we abide in Him we do not sin, as you get in chapter 3.
J.S.O. I thought you could not abide in Him apart from the Spirit.
F.E.R. No, but in a certain sense we are tested down here -- we prove ourselves by abiding, but we could not abide in Christ except by the Spirit, because the Spirit is the link which attaches us to Christ. John contemplates that people take that ground, but they are really tested by abiding.
D.L.H. The atmosphere I suppose is "love".
F.E.R. Yes, you come into the circle which is affected by the love of Christ (1 John 3:16). You get into that atmosphere.
F.E.R. That comes out in chapter 4. You are brought into the full blaze of the light of the revelation of God in its application to us down here. The end of it is that we may have boldness in the day of judgment "because as he is, so are we in this world". Love is made perfect with us. The bond is something that is effectuated apart from the subjective work in the soul. I do not think anybody is attached to Christ except by the Spirit, but then, it is an extremely important point, because Christ is the Sun of righteousness and if we are attached to Him by the Spirit we have escaped from lawlessness. The proof of it is that you practise righteousness. He that doeth righteousness is righteous.
D.L.H. That is, that you have come into your orbit?
F.E.R. Yes, you are down here upon earth moving in the appointed orbit, and you carry out the will of God in that orbit, apart from the will of man.
H.C.A. In the first verse it says, "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ" and in verse 5, "He that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God". What do you connect with those two?
F.E.R. I think the Christ is the expectation of all flesh, but I do not think the thought of the Christ represents the full height of the truth. I think the full height of the truth is that God has come in, Christ is the Son of God.
J.S.O. Would the latter go further than the Jewish faith -- "Thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel".
F.E.R. I do not think that comes up to the full height of it.
H.C.A. The second would be the power which sets aside the world system.
F.E.R. Yes -- God has come in to establish a system which is according to Himself.
J.S.O. The first is proof that he is born of God and the last is connected with victory over the world.
H.C.A. And the last would be a necessity for everyone who is to overcome the world.
Rem. The man in John 9 was ready for that revelation.
F.E.R. Yes, in a certain sense I suppose he overcame the world, but he had been rather roughly handled by the world. I strongly suspect he was ready for chapter 19 of John.
H.C.A. Would the normal character of things be that you would reach the second by beginning with the first?
F.E.R. Yes. I think Christ is presented for faith. "Thus it behoved Christ to suffer" (Luke 24:46). You get the Christ presented for faith and forgiveness of sins preached in His name, but then, receiving the Spirit you are brought by the Spirit into the knowledge of the Son of God.
Rem. He is the Head of every man come in response to the desire of all nations.
F.E.R. I think there was expectation in a sense. Man did not exactly know what his want was, but it really was a head to set things right, and the point in this chapter is that God has come in, in the Son.
Ques. And if God has come in, it is to establish a new order?
F.E.R. Yes -- according to His love.
Rem. It is evident that the expectation of Christ was not limited to the Jew.
F.E.R. I do not think so. You get the expression, "the desire of all nations".
J.S.O. You would not limit the "anointed" Christ to Israel?
F.E.R. No. I think the Jew had altogether a too limited thought of Christ. No doubt He was to be the Son of Abraham and David, but the fact of His being Son of Abraham put Him outside of the Jew -- "in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed".
Rem. He was to be the "glory of thy people Israel".
F.E.R. Yes, but He was to be a light to the gentiles. Paul takes it up in Acts 13:47.
J.S.O. I suppose the "begotten" here goes beyond the idea of being born again and the kingdom?
F.E.R. I think so. The expression in the epistle conveys the idea that you are begotten into christianity -- begotten of God's testimony. You are according to God in nature.
J.S.O. From verse 1 to verse 5 we get christianity proper. He begins with "Jesus is the Christ" and ends with "Jesus is the Son of God".
Ques. What is the difference between the Son of God in Psalm 2 and in this chapter?
F.E.R. In Psalm 2 it does not go beyond the thought of His authority widening out over the nations -- "Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee". It is according to what you get in the beginning of Matthew and Luke -- born into the world 'incarnate', God claimed Him at once. He was miraculously born of the Holy Spirit and therefore the moment He was born God
claimed Him, but that does not come up to what you get in John's first epistle chapter 5, it would not fit in at all. Here it is the fact of His proper relation to the Father.
Ques. It is the same Person though?
F.E.R. Quite so, but looked at from a different point.
Ques. Is He not looked at here beyond death?
F.E.R. Yes, but not only so, He came to purge death -- He came to see to everything.
D.L.H. I should like to ask a question as to the second thought of the Son of God. Although that refers to the introduction of a divine Person into this world, does it not suppose His humanity?
F.E.R. I think so. It is always used in regard to Him in that way.
Ques. Is one right in saying that the confession of Jesus as the Son of God is the confession of Him where He is now -- the victorious One who has overcome the world?
J.McK. Would Peter's confession come up to what we get in this chapter?
F.E.R. Yes, but I think the great point in the Son of God having come is that God has come in. You would not get that in Psalm 2. In John the advent of the Son of God is really God coming in. That is the height of things now, and that I believe to be the true character of the first chapter of John's gospel. You also get much the same thought in Hebrews -- God has spoken unto us by His Son. The Spirit has come to bear witness to the Son of God. The Spirit could not witness to anybody short of a divine Person.
Ques. In verse 6, is there any reason why water comes before blood?
F.E.R. It seems to emphasise the blood -- expiation.
Ques. If the blood had not been included here, the question of expiation might have been raised in connection with what the apostle speaks of?
F.E.R. Yes. If you get things brought in according to God, you must get expiation. There must be a purging of sins if there is to be any blessing according to God.
Ques. What is in the thought of cleansing?
F.E.R. In the eye of God you want to be apart from defilement and in your own sense of things too you want to be apart from the defilement of the world. Take Naaman, he had to dip in Jordan seven times. He was defiled -- a leper -- and what he wanted was cleansing. Forgiveness of sins is preached in the name of the Lord Jesus but when a man turns to God by Christ, he has got cleansing. He goes down into the waters of Jordan in a sense. It is only by the death of Christ that you can get morally free of the world.
Ques. Is it not by the same thing that we get free from ourselves?
Ques. In the history of our souls we begin with the blood?
F.E.R. Yes, but what the blood really means is an announcement. An announcement goes out to man -- the forgiveness of sins -- but there is no announcement as to the cleansing, that comes in by faith in the death of Christ. A man receives the announcement and turns to God and turning to God by the death of Christ, he is cleansed.
Ques. What is the force of the expression, "the Spirit is truth"?
F.E.R. I think the two are equivalent. The truth is the Spirit or the Spirit is the truth. Christ is the truth objectively, but the Spirit is the truth in the believer. In having the Spirit you really have the truth.
D.L.H. And is it all bound up in the revelation of God?
H.C.A. Does verse 5 set forth christian testimony?
F.E.R. I think the christian testimony is that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. I believe the proper connection of eternal life is with the
age to come. You will find that in all the synoptic gospels but the great point in the epistle of John is that eternal life has come in. Now God has given to us eternal life and this life is in His Son -- hence, properly speaking, christians are here a witness to the Son of God. We get eternal life really in faith, and in a way which is morally higher than the way in which millennial saints get it. I do not think it will be quite said of them that they have the Son as we have Him, yet the blessings must be established on the same principles on the part of God.
H.C.A. We have not very much of it in present enjoyment.
F.E.R. Well, I think the secret of that is that we are far too much accustomed to look inside, instead of to Christ. The great point is to apprehend what is in Christ. I believe it to be true that we are never called to believe anything about ourselves -- the great object of "faith" is Christ.
J.S.O. In the term "age to come" you include the idea of the heavenly part of it?
F.E.R. Yes, because all is put under Christ. The most important part is certainly the heavenly city.
J.S.O. And therefore our portion internally is a great deal more than ever could be eternally displayed?
F.E.R. Yes, I think so. I think we are undergoing an education at the present time for the function which the city is to fulfil in regard to the world to come.
Ques. I suppose the one begotten of God always does overcome the world and he increases in overcoming the world. The portions of it enlarge as we go on?
F.E.R. People have different notions of the world. The secret of it is, they fail to apprehend that the Son of God is come, and that in the fact of His having come, there is a new world. He has come as the beginning of another world -- that is what people need to apprehend.
D.L.H. But nobody starts with that.
F.E.R. No, I do not think there is the power for it; in the case of babes just converted, their ability to apprehend is extremely limited.
D.L.H. And in the nature of things they must be more occupied with themselves and what they have in Christ for themselves?
F.E.R. Yes, the first principle we apprehend is that, but it is a long time before we apprehend what Christ is for God, and I do not think any apprehend what Christ is for God until they get into the holiest.
M. Is that line of things in John's gospel -- that we may learn what Christ is for God?
Rem. Verse 18 gives what is normal.
F.E.R. They are wonderful statements at the close of the chapter -- see verse 20. I take it "the true God" is what is genuine -- proved to be so by the very fact of revelation. Those who profess in a kind of way to be gods dare not reveal themselves, but the very fact that God has come out proves Him to be the true God.
Ques. Are the "idols" just the opposite?
F.E.R. Yes. If an idol were made manifest it would prove to be a demon, but the Son of God has come into the presence of man so that He has been seen and known.
D.L.H. Eternal life is presented in the Old Testament as a kind of sphere of things?
F.E.R. Yes. You may depend upon it, principles which prevail in the physical universe must prevail in the moral universe. The very first principle of blessing must be rule -- like the rule of the sun.
D.L.H. But in the order of creation, light comes first.
F.E.R. Yes, but in the order of apprehension light comes last. You begin by coming into righteousness, then you come into the christian circle, then you come into the light (chapter 4).
Ques. Will you say one word on, "We are in him that is true"?
F.E.R. It explains it immediately afterwards. We are in Christ -- abiding in Him.
Ques. It is not simply individual?
F.E.R. No, I think it takes in the whole company.
"In him" is the true place of the whole company. The great object of John's writing is to awaken people to the realisation of all that into which they are brought. Many christians find a great difficulty in putting all these things together, John points out that if a christian practises righteousness, he is abiding in Christ -- he is righteous as He is righteous. Then, when people are converted they are brought into the christian circle -- they love the brethren. Well now, John says they have passed out of death into life. He wakens the believer up to the reality of what he is brought into, then in chapter 4 he takes up the light of God. He says if you love, you know God. Then he unfolds all the full light of divine love. It is really proving what is practical in the christian, and starting from that point to awaken christians to a sense of the atmosphere into which they are brought.
H.C.A. It is like working from the known to the unknown.
F.E.R. Yes. The things are known in a certain sense, but not intelligently. John's point was to bring them into these things intelligently.
D.L.H. Would you mind giving a little summary of the epistle, which I suppose is brought to a conclusion when he says "These things have I written unto you ..". (verse 13).
F.E.R. I think the Spirit of God has opened up the conditions in which eternal life consists. They were always there, but by the work of God in a believer, he becomes conscious of the conditions by which he is surrounded, and upon which he is dependent. In that way he became conscious that he has eternal life. God has established all the conditions of life in Christ and the point is for us to enter into them.
Ques. Does he not seem to give three very different reasons for writing this epistle? "That your joy may be full", (chapter 1: 4), "Because your sins are forgiven you", (chapter 2: 12) and "that ye may know that ye have eternal life" (chapter 5: 13).
F.E.R. The second one is because he writes -- the ground. I think in chapter 1 you get the great basis of fellowship and in chapter 2 the apostle addresses them according to the degree in which they were in accord with him. He takes them up in that way -- in different classes -- babes, young men, and fathers. That indicates the measure in which they were in accord with the apostle, and because they are in accord with him, he addresses them, I think. Chapters 3 and 4 give the elements of eternal life. They show the conditions which God has established in order that those conditions may be life to us. The first important condition is the rule of Christ. It is in that way we get salvation from sin and the wicked one. The next condition is the christian circle through which we get salvation from the world and the third is the full light of God. Chapter 4 is the full light of God coming in. God has said, "Let there be light"
and light has come to pass. It is very much like it was at the beginning, in Genesis 1:3.
Ques. Do you mean the revelation of what God is?
F.E.R. The revelation of what God is in its application to us. Not simply the abstract idea that God is love, but you get the love in its application to us down here from beginning to end. Light is one of the essential conditions of life, and if we love, we love in light.
Ques. And is the application of the love of God to us, light?
F.E.R. Quite so, and you get the bearing of it in regard to us -- it is that in which we love.
J.S.O. And the light is inseparable from the knowledge of God.
F.E.R. Quite so. If you had not the capability, the light would be useless, just as it would be if a new-born child were blind.
D.L.H. The light would be of no benefit to us. Does not that correspond with what Peter speaks of -- being brought to God -- brought into God's own circle, to His side of things?
F.E.R. Yes, "that ye might set forth the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness to his wonderful light" 1 Peter 2:9. His wonderful light is the revelation of Himself.
D.L.H. I suppose nobody begins there.
F.E.R. No, you do not begin there as to your consciousness of things but everything is there.
D.L.H. I suppose we all begin pretty much on our own side.
F.E.R. We must do. There is no capability otherwise. A man is convicted in conscience and brought to a sense of what he is in relation to God, and the only possible way that he can be met is on the ground of grace.
J.S.O. "The increase of God", Colossians 2:19. Would that give you the idea of growth in the knowledge of God?
D.L.H. I suppose you get various expressions in
other parts of Scripture pretty much answering to what you get here like being "brought to God" in Peter?
F.E.R. Yes, because all the writers are presenting christianity. Each presents his own things in a particular point of view, but at the same time, they are all teaching christianity -- they are not adverse. You get three prominent thoughts in the Old Testament -- blessing, dwelling and ruling. Blessing in Abraham, dwelling in Israel, and ruling in David but you get all these three thoughts taken up, I have no doubt whatever, in Christ -- eternal life. They are all fulfilled in a way, only you get them in the converse order, because God begins with rule -- He establishes rule, consequent upon that you get God dwelling, then you get the blessing. I suppose it is referred to in Psalm 133, "There hath Jehovah commanded the blessing, life for evermore" (verse 3). The point is that all things have come in now. You have got the dwelling, and so you get the ruling and blessing.
D.L.H. And that brings us to the witness?
F.E.R. Yes. It is because we are in the blessing that we get the witness -- in having the Son we are brought into blessing and hence it is, we are witness to the Son.
D.L.H. So that we anticipate what will come out fully in the world to come?
F.E.R. I think so -- what will be fulfilled publicly is really brought to pass spiritually now, because Christ is there.
D.L.H. And now the great question is having the Son.
F.E.R. Yes, of course, we have the Son and He has "given us an understanding that we should know him that [is] true; and we are in him that [is] true, in his Son Jesus Christ". 1 John 5:20.
Rem. I suppose we get the advantage of that in the Spirit. The Spirit is the truth -- we have the Spirit.
F.E.R. Exactly. The Spirit is witness because the Spirit is the truth. I take it the connection is that the Spirit is witness to Christ as last Adam, as the Son of God. Of course, the Son of God is not here, but the
Spirit has become a witness of the Son of God. We have the triple witness -- the Spirit, the water and the blood -- all as witness to the Son, the last Adam.
D.L.H. Do you think that the conditions of eternal life which you have spoken of, come out in contrast with things that are opposite?
F.E.R. Yes, exactly, because rule comes in to do away with lawlessness. Christ is the "Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world" John 1:29. He brings rule in and in that way abolishes lawlessness.
Ques. Where is the rule found now?
F.E.R. In the hand of Christ. You are "married to another", Romans 7.
Ques. Would you say it is found in 1 John 2?
F.E.R. I would say it is found in chapter 3. If you abide in Christ you do not sin, you have escaped from lawlessness -- that is the first great thing. People are like fragments flying about in space without any attachment -- they are lawless. Christ has been manifested to take away our sins and in Him is no sin, and if you abide in Christ you come under rule.
D.L.H. You were saying last time that rule is what is normal -- not necessarily the putting down of evil.
F.E.R. How do we stand on the earth? It is by the influence of rule. Why do we get rain? It is all by the influence of rule in the universe around us.
D.L.H. Now with regard to the idea of eternal life, about the "hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before the ages of time" Titus 1:2. That, of course, carries us back to a period before any sin came in at all, before death came in.
F.E.R. Yes, but everything God has proposed in Christ.
H.C.A. Then would not eternal life be in view after all those things have passed away?
F.E.R. I do not think that is the idea. All God's purposes were centred in the last Adam, Christ. God set Adam, the innocent man, upon the scene first, but God had in His counsel the last Adam. You get the type
of Christ and the church in Adam and Eve before sin came in -- it was the last Adam that was in the mind of God.
H.C.A. If it existed in the mind of God before, does it not continue to exist after sin came in?
F.E.R. Other things come in I have no doubt, a new heaven and a new earth were in the mind of God, so far as that goes.
D.L.H. When you say other things come in, what do you have in your mind?
F.E.R. Changes come in. For instance, we are changed -- "we shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed", 1 Corinthians 15:51, and will go to heaven. Then again changes come in in regard to the earth -- there is to be a new heaven and a new earth. Things have been interfered with by the working of evil and I think Scripture brings before us the working out of God's ways and the bringing of the heaven and the earth into harmony. We really know very little about what is beyond. We have only just the bare statement of what is to be, and it does not occupy very many verses in Scripture.
J.S.O. You could hardly conceive of anything more wonderful than what you get in the epistle of John.
F.E.R. Morally, I do not think you could, but at the same time, looking at it from another point of view, you get a new heaven and new earth in which righteousness dwells, where evil is completely abolished and where there is no more death.
J.S.O. But when you get to the Person it seems to me you are beyond all dispensational ideas.
F.E.R. Yes, but He takes a place in regard to dispensations -- He is the One in whom all things are headed up.
J.S.O. It seems to me that the epistle of John carries you beyond the mere display of things to what must be moral.
F.E.R. I think all John's writings take the down line. They are in contrast to those of Paul -- who takes
the up line. The nature of all John's writings is the bringing in of the Son of God into the world.
J.S.O. That is true, but still, when we are transferred from the place into which God has been brought and where He has been revealed, you could hardly conceive that the blessing will be greater in the higher scene -- heaven.
F.E.R. No. But I do not think John takes you up there. I do not think anybody knows or can know what we will have in heaven. Paul was caught up into heaven, and he heard unspeakable words which it was not lawful for him to utter. Therefore there must be very wonderful things in heaven.
D.L.H. In order to understand a subject like eternal life you have to take notice of the mould in which it is cast, I mean all the surroundings in which it is often spoken of.
F.E.R. Yes, it is connected with the glory of God and the triumph of God over all that has come in. But the Son of God is the One by whom the glory of God is established and by whom all that is not of God is set aside.
Ques. Would you accept the last chapter of the epistle as the down line? Please explain it.
F.E.R. I think we are here as the witness. In a future day God will command the blessing in Zion, and the revelation of God and the vessel of blessing is all found in Christ, but meanwhile we are left here in witness to Him.
Ques. Would you say a word on being in Him on the down line?
F.E.R. We abide in Him. No one is safe unless he abides in Him. You cannot escape from lawlessness except by abiding in Christ. It is really the secret of deliverance from the lawlessness of the world and the power of the wicked one. I do not think people quite appreciate rule somehow.
D.L.H. Well, we ought to appreciate it, certainly.
F.E.R. It is the only thing in which you can possibly
escape from lawlessness. Everything in the universe can be classed under two heads -- rule or lawlessness. You are either in rule or lawlessness, and the only escape from lawlessness is by coming into rule. And the way of coming into rule is by being attached to Christ -- you have the Spirit of Christ. A man is in righteousness because he has come into rule, and in that way he has escaped lawlessness.
Ques. Would one under rule be marked by love to the brethren and the practice of righteousness?
F.E.R. The practice of righteousness. "He that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous". To put it in simple, plain language you are here simply to do the will of God.
Rem. The loving one another is really the practise of righteousness.
F.E.R. Well, it is, but the two things are put distinct in that chapter.
J.S.O. It is rather the result here of the fact that he is begotten of God.
F.E.R. Yes. You must have the child born into the conditions. All the conditions of love were established before ever the child came into them.
J.S.O. And you must have the nature which the conditions set forth?
F.E.R. Yes, the conditions and the one who is begotten into these conditions exactly correspond.
H.C.A. In reference to eternal life, would you say that Christ's coming down here was that it might be known in the present time?
F.E.R. I think it is that which God intended to establish before the world was for the blessing of man. He loved man, and it was His purpose to establish eternal life for the blessing of man, and I think God has done it. Of course, it is all spiritual in the present time. Our being subject to Christ is spiritual. You cannot be subject to Christ like you have subjection in this world -- it is all spiritual. Then again, our relations to one another in connection with God and dwelling in
the house of God are spiritual. We have passed from death unto life because we love the brethren, but our connection with the brethren is spiritual not as in a family.
D.L.H. So that we have got already the powers of the world to come?
F.E.R. Yes, all the elements are present only in a spiritual way. I do not think we can be worse off than they will be in the millennium, on the other hand, we are better off, because we have everything in a spiritual way.
D.L.H. What about the knowledge of the Father?
F.E.R. You get the revelation of divine love in its application to us -- as the apostle says, "We have seen, and testify, that the Father has sent the Son [as] Saviour of the world". You could not know the love of God apart from the Father and the Son. It is the revelation of God -- the Father and the Son -- which gives us the apprehension of the love of God.
J.S.O. Would not the Father's house give the idea of the consummation of the blessing of that?
F.E.R. I think that surpasses everything that we know down here.
J.S.O. You mean surpass in the way that the conditions are changed?
F.E.R. Quite so. So I think being with the Father in the Father's own house must surpass anything that one can know down here.
J.S.O. Would you sever the idea of that from eternal life at all?
F.E.R. I think all that is going on now is a kind of education to suit us for scenes above.
Ques. The revelation greater then, than now?
F.E.R. No. I think when God has got you into His own habitation, you must come into enjoyments which you could not come into down here in the scene of exercises. It is a scene where everything is ordered according to God's mind. 'There no stranger God shall meet thee'.
Rem. A great deal of the energy of the Spirit now is
F.E.R. Yes, then God is known to us a great deal in the present time in the way of discipline. Of course, that will not be the case above. Then you cannot have love made perfect with you in the day of judgment.
D.L.H. The Father's house is rather on the up line, is it not?
F.E.R. I think it is, yet it is almost the only allusion you get on the part of John to our place above.
J.S.O. That is what I meant. In regard to the down line one quite agrees, only does not the Father's house give you the enjoyment of the fulness and completeness of blessings which have been brought to you on the down line here?
F.E.R. I think it will be very different up there. The whole position of saints and everything will be so completely changed -- we shall reign in life through Him.
D.L.H. Would you carry that thought into eternity?
F.E.R. I do not think it is carried into eternity. It is all connected with the world to come.
J.S.O. You do not think the Father's house will be limited to the world to come?
F.E.R. No, the Father's house will take in the universe.
F.E.R. Oh no. Because we come into what is final and eternal in the Father's house.
Ques. Would the many mansions bring in every family in the Father's house?
D.L.H. With regard to the children in chapter 2 they are said to know the Father. How far ought we to carry that?
F.E.R. I think it is so to speak, the first principle of christianity; because christianity is faith in the Son of God. The glad tidings is concerning God's Son and the first principle of christianity is that you know the Father.
D.L.H. How do the children reach the circle that we have been speaking about?
F.E.R. I think John is writing to awaken them to it. The defect was they had not learned to put things together. So with people at the present day -- everything is there, but they have not learned to put things together.
D.L.H. And sometimes the teachers set to work to put them together, and mix up things in people's minds.
F.E.R. I do not think anybody but the Spirit of God can put things together. Take those three simple thoughts -- ruling, dwelling and blessing -- if they are put together in your own soul so that each one is available to you, then it is that you become conscious of them in eternal life. We had a very interesting reading in Manchester on the concurrence of eternal life and salvation -- the two are necessarily concurrent. If you come into all that of which eternal life consists, you come of necessity into salvation. If you come under rule you are saved from lawlessness. In the christian circle there is salvation from the world.
Ques. How do you account for things not being put together in our souls?
F.E.R. I do not know. It is a very great grace when it is done. I am sure I can thank God even for the little way in which these things have been put together. Things have been extremely difficult on account of that from which we have escaped. Everything that is of God really in the common thought of people is connected with the world.
J.S.O. There has been a way of applying mighty truths almost irrespective of the way in which people have been going on.
F.E.R. Yes, and it is damaging in the extreme. Objective and subjective must go together. A creature, being a creature cannot do without rule, nor without an atmosphere and cannot do without light.
Ques. So that attachment to Christ would be important, would it?
F.E.R. It is the first principle. The way of God is to present to you attraction in Christ, but the object of it is
to attract you to Christ that you may be attached to Christ by the Spirit so that you are in Christ and the moment you are in Christ you are under rule.
Rem. In that way things get put together.
F.E.R. Yes. You are under rule and you are no longer lawless, you are righteous as He is righteous.
J.S.O. When you speak of attachment to Christ, you do not mean reaching any great point?
F.E.R. No, it is only like the moon being attached to the earth.
J.S.O. It is really the proper normal order -- christianity on the subjective and objective side?
F.E.R. Yes, every believer is attached to Christ, and being attached you abide, and then you come under rule.
F.E.R. In connection with the thought of "life in Christ Jesus" salvation comes into view pretty much, both here and in Titus. You get the same principle in Revelation, in the addresses to the seven churches. In Ephesus, there is the defection of the church from its first estate, and in Smyrna the Lord speaks about life -- He was dead, and lives, and He promises the crown of life to the overcomer who "shall in no wise be injured of the second death".
D.L.H. Then what is vital, I suppose, comes into prominence in connection with the selection of the professing body.
F.E.R. Yes, because there is no hope, so far as the church as a light bearer is concerned, for restoration. It will never be restored from that point of view. I think in the early days of christianity what kept them pretty much was fellowship, service and that kind of thing -- all in fact which was connected with the presence of the Spirit. Their attention was taken up with that.
H.C.A. Would you say what your thought is about life here, before there is any question of death at all?
F.E.R. It was all bound up in the thought of God and Christ Jesus.
H.C.A. Then does christianity bring saints into the good of what was in the purpose of God before the world was?
F.E.R. Yes. When decay had set in with the professing body the Spirit of God seems to fall back upon what is vital. I do not think it is at all difficult to understand that in the early days of the church they were taken up pretty much with the presence of the Spirit, and all the mighty effects consequent upon it. You find that in the Acts.
D.L.H. I suppose the fact is, there was a good vital
condition at that time and the question as to vitality did not arise?
F.E.R. No, they were in the enjoyment of the truth and fellowship, the abundance of gift, and the powers of the world to come, all of which in a certain sense were connected with the energy of the Spirit. We have very little of that in the present state of the church and we cannot attempt to imitate it. We cannot go back to Pentecost, and restore the original state of the church.
H.C.A. What is the exact force of promise of life here in the first verse, and in Titus?
F.E.R. I think it is that to which God saw fit to engage Himself.
H.C.A. Was it all before Him in Christ at that time?
H.C.A. Then if we go on to the future -- is the thought that of necessity everything must be established in Christ, so that saints come into the thought of God in consequence of their association with Christ?
F.E.R. I think now. The truth is that God has established everything in Christ now. Christ is there and God has established everything in Him so that it can all come to light; it has come to light.
Ques. I suppose you would say chosen in Christ is pretty much the same as what is here?
F.E.R. Yes, all was in connection with the eternal purpose.
Ques. Are the actings of the Spirit intended to make that promise effective in us?
F.E.R. It must be so. I think there are two lines of truth which are pretty distinct. One is what God has established in Christ, and the other is the work of God in the believer. I do not know that we keep them sufficiently distinct in our minds, but I think it is important.
Ques. In the first verse is it the apostleship or the will of God which is connected with the purpose of
F.E.R. I think the apostleship is on that line -- "according to ... Jesus".
H.L.A. When he says in Titus eternal life, does not that go on to the full display and good of it -- what it is in the thought of God?
F.E.R. There is not much difference of thought between eternal life in Christ Jesus and life in Christ Jesus. For instance in John's first epistle he says, "God has given to us eternal life; and this life is in his Son". They must be substantially the same thing. Here it is the "promise of life in Christ Jesus", which would convey pretty much the same thought. 'Eternal' gives its character to it, but the expression 'life' carries it.
H.C.A. God's thought of life is seen in the tree of life in the midst of the garden.
F.E.R. Yes, it was in the midst of men, but the truth of His life could not come out until Christ came.
S.L.O. Does life involve resurrection?
F.E.R. Well, I think it must on our part. It is the bringing in of the light of life and incorruptibility. You could not get that in any application to us except in resurrection; or at all events, a change equivalent to resurrection. "... this corruptible must needs put on incorruptibility", 1 Corinthians 15:53.
Ques. Is that the force of what we get in Jude, "awaiting the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life", Jude 21?
M. In what sense is it the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ?
F.E.R. I think it is the same principle on which the apostle says, "The Lord grant to him to find mercy from the Lord in that day" (verse 18). There is a sovereign mercy of the Lord which comes to pass in that day, and you get the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
H.C.A. Is the thought of salvation to deliver from all the influence of death which has come in?
F.E.R. Yes; life in Christ Jesus on the one hand must of necessity involve salvation on the other, and salvation must be commensurate with the blessing. It runs concurrently with it -- salvation from what is contrary to the blessing.
H.C.A. What do you think is the order -- is it that life should be more entered into in order that salvation might be known?
F.E.R. I think salvation would be known. If a man entered into righteousness, he would be set free from lawlessness. By entering into life, you pass out of death. If you enter into light, you pass out of the region of the powers of darkness. If you abide in Christ you do not sin -- you are delivered from lawlessness. You get salvation in that way from sin. If you love the brethren, you are conscious that you have passed out of death into life -- you are free from death and the world. And so, as you come into light, you are delivered from the rulers of the darkness of this world.
H.C.A. So that the good of life really is the way of deliverance?
F.E.R. Life in another man (objective, in that way) must involve deliverance from all that came in by the first man. Sin and death and darkness all came in by the first man, but then, if we are led into the consciousness of blessing which subsists in the second Man we escape from all that.
Rem. I suppose it is practically that the soul is satisfied and happy, and does not lust for other things.
F.E.R. I think so. Salvation is involved. Life is not a theory -- life is life.
S.L.O. Adam did not have any of these blessings before he fell?
F.E.R. No, I do not think it was established in Adam or any other man.
Ques. He was only a figure of Him who was to come?
F.E.R. Yes. He could involve other people in his fall, and he did. Of course, if Adam had remained as God made him, they would have been like him. They
could not have entered into a blessing which did not properly belong to them. If we enter into that which is in Christ Jesus, we enter into what properly does not belong to us, but it is there for every man. God has established in Christ, the last Adam, life for every man. It is not that everyone gets it, but it is established there for everyone. I think the application of it is universal. "God so loved ... life" (John 3:16). I do not think it would be wrong to preach eternal life.
D.L.H. But then salvation goes along with that too?
F.E.R. Yes, but salvation is in Christ Jesus. Whatever God has established in Christ Jesus is available to every man.
D.L.H. So that in the testimony of the gospel both these things are really presented?
F.E.R. Yes, and I think you are right in presenting them. For instance, the apostle said to the Ephesians, "Having heard the word of the truth, the glad tidings of your salvation". In the gospel there was presented how God had found salvation for the gentiles. "The grace of God which carries with it salvation for all men" -- there is no limit there.
Ques. What is growing up into salvation?
F.E.R. It is virtually the same thing as growth into life. It is just in proportion as that goes on that you really grow up into salvation -- the two are bound to go together.
J.S.O. It is very much in the Acts. "Paul and Barnabas spoke boldly and said, It was necessary ..". (Acts 13:46, 47).
F.E.R. Exactly, that is what Christ was to be.
S.L.O. Then do both begin with the receiving of the Holy Spirit?
F.E.R. I think so, because I cannot possibly conceive of any salvation except in the power of the Spirit, and the Spirit is the well of water that springs up into everlasting life.
Ques. The Spirit is the one that brings life and maintains life?
F.E.R. If Christ be in you, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. I think that our tendency has been to be too ecclesiastical, as though we could restore the order of the church.
H.C.A. Mr. Darby used to say we could be a witness to the ruin.
F.E.R. I think brethren were disposed to present a kind of pattern of what the original was. You cannot go back upon the past. When the past has failed, you must go forward to the future.
D.L.H. I suppose the light of the past should regulate us?
F.E.R. I think you are actuated more by the light of what is coming. In the Old Testament the Spirit of God continually reproaches Israel with their defectiveness, but He leads them on to the future. He brings Christ and the kingdom out.
H.C.A. But here you do go back to the thought of God as to life.
F.E.R. But it all refers to what is coming. Life is all connected with the manifestation of the last Adam. It is hid for the moment but it carries you on to manifestation. Then again, another thing comes into view, namely, the heavenly city. I strongly suspect that if we were really affected by the truth of life in Christ Jesus and the heavenly city we should reproduce without effort so far the original order of the church.
F.E.R. Yes, because really there could be nothing opposed between the order of the church and the heavenly city morally. I think all moral principles which came out in the church as God established it at first, really must come out in the heavenly city.
S.L.O. Only there is no evil to contend against.
F.E.R. No, but you get moral principles -- righteousness, holiness, unity.
H.C.A. I suppose the light is Christ?
H.C.A. That would be the same as in the churches --
they were set here as light bearers.
S.L.O. Then would you call the heavenly city the manifestation of life?
F.E.R. Every proper moral characteristic comes out in it -- righteousness, holiness, unity -- it has the glory of God and her light like unto a stone most precious.
D.L.H. So that just as we are under the power of the Spirit now, these moral elements are produced?
F.E.R. I think so; but the point is what will the Spirit engage our attention with, with the past or the future? I speak quite under correction; I think that when everything which God has set up externally has failed, the Spirit of God will not occupy you with the past, but with the future. That is a principle which runs through Scripture. No one can get any proper apprehension of Christ unless he sees what is going to mark Christ in glory.
Ques. I suppose you would say that "life in Christ" looks on. It would be something like you get in Colossians 3 -- it is hid?
F.E.R. Yes -- when Christ who is our life is manifested.
S.L.J. Is quickened together with Christ, more than receiving the Spirit?
F.E.R. Yes, I think it indicates the effectual working of the Spirit in you, so that you are quickened together with Him. It is of immense importance to apprehend the vast system of blessing of which Christ is the centre and Head, in all the extent and vastness of it -- I do not care by what name you call it, that is not the point to my mind; then to understand the particular part which the church has in it.
S.L.O. Is that according to Ephesians?
F.E.R. Yes; in heading up all things in Christ in whom the church has obtained an inheritance.
H.C.A. Was not the death of Christ the closing up of the first order of things?
H.C.A. God keeps us in the good of the death of Christ. Every Lord's day that is what comes before us, and as to the future it is the glory of Christ. The humiliation on the one side, and the glory on the other.
F.E.R. Yes. You get it here (see verses 9 and 10). It is a tremendous expression. He has annulled death and brought life and incorruptibility to light by the gospel.
H.C.A. Would that be what he refers to as the form of sound words?
F.E.R. I do not know. I have no doubt the truth was expressed in the form of sound words, but no form of words would convey the spirit of the thing. Christ has annulled death and brought life and incorruptibility to light. It means life and incorruptibility in regard to all that which comes under Christ, because life and incorruptibility will no doubt more or less characterise the whole universe of which Christ is the Head.
S.L.O. Is incorruptibility the impossibility of any sin or evil coming in?
F.E.R. I think it is the removal of the pressure of the corruption which everything is under. Christ will remove it -- the creation itself will be delivered from the bondage of corruption. Christ has annulled the rule of death, and it is exceedingly possible that some of us will never die at all.
Ques. I suppose incorruptibility has to say to the body chiefly?
F.E.R. I think it has to say to the whole creation. I do not think incorruptibility will mark the state of man when Christ is manifested as the last Adam. Sin will no longer reign by death. Life and incorruptibility will come to pass.
D.L.H. But then it is already brought to light by the gospel. That seems to me to be such an immensely important point in christianity -- you have the light of the world to come.
F.E.R. I will tell you a remarkable expression in Romans -- "the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to
the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest", Romans 16:25, 26. You have got to preach Jesus Christ in the gospel according to the revelation of the mystery -- make it known unto all nations for the obedience of faith.
D.L.H. Then you take the mystery not merely to be the church, but the mystery of Christ?
F.E.R. Yes; the mystery of God's will. See how the apostle goes into the ways of God and brings in the restoration of Israel. Then in the Revelation you get the mystery of God finished. When everything is manifested there is no longer mystery, but it is the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the mystery. He has made known unto us the mystery of His will ... to head up all things in Christ (Ephesians 1). It is the preaching of Jesus Christ as the great Head.
Ques. As in Colossians 2?
F.E.R. Yes; in Him are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Christ has annulled death and brought life and incorruptibility to light, so that He might take the place of Head and in the system of which He is Head death should not be reckoned.
Ques. You do not find that in the Acts?
F.E.R. No; it is more after that transient state.
Ques. What would be the testimony of our Lord in verse 8?
F.E.R. I think it is the testimony which the Lord had committed to them. I think the Lord had committed a certain testimony special to Paul.
Ques. Would you say it was confined to one truth, or a common statement?
F.E.R. I think it is very much more the testimony of life in Christ Jesus; that is, that He has annulled death and brought life and incorruptibility to light by the gospel. Christ is going to prevail. It is a wonderful thing -- you see everything established in Christ. To begin with, you get rule established in Christ -- that is the first
element of blessing; just like rule is established in the sun. You may depend upon it you will never get a universe set right until everything is brought under rule -- the rule is established in Christ.
Ques. In a few words, what is the testimony of our Lord?
F.E.R. I think it is what is spoken of here -- the annulling of death and the bringing to light life and incorruptibility.
Ques. Not quite the same as "my doctrine"?
F.E.R. Well, I think it was Paul's doctrine according to the revelation of the mystery. I think the twelve preached Christ more in relation to the Jew. For instance, in Acts we read Him hath God exalted to be a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins, and God opened a door to the gentiles, but I do not think you get them presenting Christ as the Sun and centre of a vast universe. That comes out by Paul.
Ques. Can the testimony of the Lord be preached apart from subjection to Him as Lord?
F.E.R. If you preach, you preach in fidelity to the Lord.
Ques. That brings His rule over you in preaching and will result in what Paul speaks of further on as to suffering for these things?
J.McK. I suppose that kind of preaching will never be popular -- "me his prisoner".
F.E.R. The fact is, it is not popular because it is too unsubstantial. Some people would perhaps call it transcendental.
D.L.H. I think they want something that is connected with man that is, and I suppose that is the secret of what the apostle said, "Be not thou therefore ashamed", etc. (verse 8).
F.E.R. I think so. If you want to be successful, adapt christianity to this world. Man would applaud you for that.
H.C.A. Is not the testimony of the Lord the indication
of what is pleasing to God in another?
F.E.R. I think the passage shows us what it is. He says, 'It is made manifest' (verse 10). That is what I should call the testimony of our Lord. What is established in Christ is really what God intends for the universe. For instance, the power of God that wrought in the resurrection of Christ is the power of God to us-ward who believe, so we have faith in the operation of God who raised Him from the dead. It all begins in the church. Christ is the head, but then it does not end with the church.
D.L.H. But then we are in this singular position that we have the light of these things before they are actually made manifest.
F.E.R. Yes; but it is made manifest to us. The church is so instructed in every way of God that it must occupy a place which none else can occupy.
J.S.O. For instance, sonship. Would that be manifest in a future day elsewhere?
F.E.R. I think it will -- not at all in the same sense, but you get the word applied. For instance, all those who are raised, are the sons of the resurrection. So Israel is God's son. The word is used in a very indefinite way. Sonship in our case gets its character from our association with Christ, connected with heavenly places.
J.S.O. Yes; so with the bride and the body.
F.E.R. Yes. I think we make a fatal mistake if we neglect the present opportunity in the power of the Spirit. People may neglect every advantage and opportunity in the present world -- it will pay in the long run. The point of the heavenly Jerusalem is that it is the light of the universe. The nations shall walk in the light of it and the kings of the earth shall bring their glory and honour unto it.
Ques. Would that be moral and actual?
F.E.R. There is a great deal of what is actual but we have to take care of what is moral. I believe that in the thoughts of God the physical is dependent upon the moral.
Rem. The resurrection of the body will depend, I suppose, upon the moral.
F.E.R. Exactly. God is entirely governed by moral considerations, and the moral must govern the physical. The fall came in consequence of moral considerations, and I have no doubt future dealings of God with the earth will be governed by moral considerations. By faith we understand the worlds were framed by the word of God. Even in regard to the framing of the world God had what was moral in view. The word of God brings in the moral thought -- it brings in the intelligence of God. The world was created in that way to be, I should suppose, the scene of God's ways.
D.L.H. What holds good in the physical world holds good in the moral universe?
F.E.R. Yes, and I think you will find the best illustration of spiritual things is really found in the natural universe.
S.L.O. The natural universe was made for that very purpose, was it not?
F.E.R. Yes -- to illustrate in a way, the spiritual. I think the great point is that in everything that exists in nature -- the course of the world, the heavens and the earth -- you see moral intelligence, that is the idea of it. The worlds were framed by the word of God. Christ comes in as the true Sun of righteousness, who is to arise with healing in His wings. Then you get rule brought into the moral universe, every family kept in its proper orbit. The principle of rule brought in righteousness and that kind of thing.
The admonition at the beginning of the chapter must have been remarkable in the ears of the Jew. He was not accustomed to connect the idea of the apostle and high priest in one person. In the Jewish system these were distinguished; now they are one, the apostle is as good as the priest. Moses was faithful in God's house, but Aaron was not. Moses represented law, and Aaron infirmity; now we turn from that to grace and ability of which Christ is the expression. There is grace in Christ, and ability. He is able to save to the uttermost. Christ as the living bread came down from heaven. He is the embodiment of grace. Aaron could not help the people spiritually. He was himself encompassed with infirmity. Now in Christ we get ability. The apostle is connected with grace; we are not under law but under grace; the new system was established in grace. Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Ques. Is not Hebrews 4 grace coming in, in connection with the priest?
F.E.R. Yes, but that is detail. I was speaking of what characterises the system, which is inaugurated by the apostle. Christ is the Mediator of the new covenant, and what characterises the new covenant is grace.
Ques. What is the difference between apostle and mediator?
F.E.R. They are near akin; the mediator comes into establish. The great point is to see the application of these things to us, not merely to Israel. We get the value of it when we turn away from systematic christianity and turn to a Person; then we find liberty. There is in systematic religion what people like, but you never get into liberty, save in the consideration of a person. The
point in the apostle is to maintain the calling at its height; the function of the priest is to maintain us at the height of the calling. The calling is that we are to be conformed to Christ. God is "bringing many sons unto glory" (Hebrews 2:10). Sonship is conformity to Christ where Christ is. It is a great point to see the application of these things to us. The direct application of the chapter was to the Hebrews at that day. When we came out of the entanglements of christianity, from the state church, and dissenting places, we were not delivered from those things to come into another system. We are brought out to a Person, and then there is liberty. Peter left the boat to go to Christ. The great thing is to get to Christ, and to come under His influence. We are delivered from the law, not to be married to another law, but to Him who has been raised from the dead. All systematic religion is legal because it is made up of routine. Grace has taken the course with us of bringing us under the influence of a Person. "By me if any man enter in" (John 10:9); it is by a Person we enter in. So it is now, "one flock, one shepherd", no longer a fold. The great danger with us is to set up a fold, and get a lot of sheep into it; that is to falsify christianity. We may be in a way establishing a system even in right things -- we can have a breaking of bread on Sunday and a prayer meeting on Monday, reading on Wednesday without being under the influence of the Person, and if so it is all systematic. The great point is to come under the influence of a Person; then we get sunshine and rain, and that delivers from system. We want to "consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Jesus"; that should be a habit with us, and the effect of it would be to bring us under His influence. Many go on in a routine. When once we see that christianity is connected with a living Person, routine becomes irksome. The only remedy for it is for each one to see that he comes under the influence of Christ, and if under His influence we come under His affection. The husband is bidden to love the wife; when we understand that we are married to Christ we come
under the influence of His love. There is no hope of escaping routine, save as we are exercised individually.
Ques. Is "consider him" beholding the glory of the Lord?
F.E.R. Well, that is the Apostle. He comes out in that chapter in that way. It is to cultivate intimate relations with Christ. We must begin by knowing Christ as Apostle; we have no authority for the profession until we know the Apostle. Authority is not connected with Aaron. Moses carried authority; the thing must be divinely authorised. The Apostle maintains the calling at its height. He is that now; He is the perfect expression of the mind of God in regard to us; all is expressed in Him.
F.E.R. That was the Apostle. It "began to be spoken by the Lord", that is the Apostle. When we look at Christ we learn what the calling is. We may talk of sonship, but how can we get any idea of it, except in Christ Himself? So, too, eternal life: it is set forth in Him. All that is in the mind of God for us is set forth in our Apostle. He is Himself the perfect exponent of all that is in the mind of God for us. This could not be said of Moses; he was faithful in all God's house, but he was only a type of what was to come. In our Apostle all God's thought for us is perfectly and divinely expressed. In the very nature of things there can be no diminution of the calling. All is maintained in Christ.
Hebrews is not an appeal to Hebrews like James, but it was addressed to them as having fled for refuge to the hope set before them.
Ques. Is apostleship and headship the same?
F.E.R. Well, they are akin, but different ideas. The apostle inaugurates a profession, and that we are called to hold fast. It is a great principle that the apostle and high priest are identical. The weakness of the Jewish system was that Aaron was not up to Moses. Moses as a rule was faithful. Aaron helped the people to make the golden calf. Now the high priest is commensurate with
the apostle; there can be no breach in the system. The legal system depended as much on the priest as on the apostle, and in effect it all broke down through the failure of the priest, as we see in the time of Eli. It was like priest, like people. The two being now commensurate, Christ maintains the saints at the height of the calling. If we are placed in emergency there is intercession for us, so that we may not break down. But then He also ministers to us, so that there may be no distance between us and Himself. The Lord prayed for Peter that his faith might not fail. That is intercession, but then in John 21 you get the Lord removing the moral distance which had come in between Himself and Peter. The Lord was working in that way to maintain Peter at the height of the calling, and He does that for us now. He may find an accumulation of things come upon us, but Christ intercedes for us so that we may not be overwhelmed, but hold fast, and not give up. But then Christ goes a point further; He ministers in order to remove any moral distance between us and Himself. Peter failed, but his faith did not fail. Then in John 21 the Lord works to remove distance between Himself and Peter; that is His work as Priest. There are the two functions of the priest -- intercession (that is chapter 7) and ministry (chapter 8). He is the minister of the holy places, which is another function of the priest. Ministry is man-ward.
Ques. What are the holy places?
Ques. Is there no ministry towards God?
F.E.R. Yes. We have it in Christ appearing before the face of God; He is representative; He represents us. Ministry is in view of presentation. Christ's ministry is in view of offering up. Christ will present the church to Himself without spot, holy and without blemish, and His ministry is to that end. It removes all distance between Christ and me. Christ will present the church to Himself; that is what He will offer as Priest. Intercession goes on, on the part of Christ, probably without our knowing it. It is most wonderful that when a saint
fails here Christ intercedes, and the result is that the saint judges himself. Christ intercedes because He is High Priest. No one can say that we shall hold fast our profession. The devil might bring about a heap of circumstances to bear on me so that I might give up my profession; but Christ intercedes that I may not give up.
If we have not accepted Him as the Apostle we could not be said to be in christianity. The more we consider the Apostle, the greater sense we have of the calling.
Ques. Why had we the fuss about eternal life ten years ago?
F.E.R. Because people thought it was in themselves and not in Christ. There is no fear of the fidelity of Christ, but there is fear of my fidelity breaking down. The more we enter into the thought of God in regard of us, the more we feel -- how ever am I to keep in that? Then we find that the service of the Priest, is that we may be maintained at the height of it. Christ may intercede, and you may not know of it, but you will be conscious of His priestly ministry. The minister of the new covenant must be in the mind of the covenant.
Aaron had the charge of the vessels of the sanctuary. Christ has the charge of all the holy vessels; the holy vessels are the saints. The true tabernacle is what is pitched here, in the power of the Holy Spirit. The minister of the sanctuary has charge of the vessels, and He ministers to keep us in sunshine, that we may be maintained in intimacy, and that we may be in communion with Himself. A fog may come in, and the Lord ministers to remove all clouds. The test of people in the present day is what they are in the assembly.
Ques. How does Christ lead the praises?
F.E.R. Well, it does not say that He leads. It says there is a place where Christ sings; 'He leads' is what we have said, but we do not get that in the passage.
Ques. "In the midst" -- where is that?
F.E.R. It is Christ in the saints, and that gives character to all our praises. I wish we had more ability to "consider the Apostle and High Priest". We have not to
look at two, but One. That Person can express all that is on the part of God towards us, and at the same time, He can, on our side, take up all in regard to us God-ward. The great danger has been to establish a system. The church is not a system, never was, and there was nothing systematic established; all was set up in the power of the Holy Spirit.
If a man was to be an elder, he must be full of the Holy Spirit; so also a deacon, he must be full of the Holy Spirit. The 'vast universe of bliss' may be called a system, but I do not think that you could call the church a system.
Hebrews 9:1 - 28
F.E.R. We had before us yesterday the service of Christ as high priest, both in regard to intercession and ministry; and ministry connected with His being minister of the holy places. In this chapter the point is the purgation of the conscience for the service of God. Christ is spoken of as being come a "high priest of good things to come ... having obtained eternal redemption ... who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God". The thought of the passage in its application to us, is the purgation of the conscience so that we may serve the living God. Christ is high priest of good things to come; we are in connection with good things to come; we are on that ground of the world to come; otherwise we should not be in accord with Christ. The Jew served God after the flesh, and that order of things. Now we serve God in connection with good things to come, which is another order of things.
The present time is peculiar; it does not belong to the past, but it anticipates what is to come. There is not a state of things which is recognised of God now. Christians are recognised of God, and that as on the ground of the good things to come. The life of the christian here is the life of the wilderness, but we anticipate what is future; we are on that ground, Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, but they are yet to come. Christ has entered in as the high priest of good things, but the good things have yet to come; though we in the Spirit have come to them now; that we get in chapter 12: 22, etc. The law had a shadow of good things to come -- Mount Zion is a "good thing" -- "the heavenly Jerusalem", etc. -- these are all "good things". Serving the living God is in the sense of worship -- it is priestly service, not levitical.
F.E.R. They are connected with the old covenant. Christianity has been set up by the world, according to the pattern of Judaism; it is not according to God as it exists now. The buildings are all on that pattern; you get a nave and a chancel; they are not spiritual, they are all material. We cannot get purgation apart from a change of ground. The conscience has to be purged not merely from sins but from dead works. The service is priestly; it is worship.
Ques. Is it like "redeemed from your vain conversation received by tradition"? (1 Peter 1:18).
F.E.R. Yes; it is a great thing to apprehend what Christ is and the things which are connected with Him. There is a divinely appointed order, connected with Him -- a new moral order, "Come by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands -- that is to say, not of this building". The tabernacle must be all in accord with the priest. The first tabernacle was anointed with oil, not only the vessels. The "better and more perfect tabernacle" is that which is established in the power of the Spirit. The secret of going on with dead works is that Christ is not apprehended officially. If people did apprehend that, they would get an apprehension of the coming good things. The good things to come are all connected with the living God, for life will pervade all, so that all may be united to Him.
Rem. It is all, too, on the ground of the will of God, and not the responsibility of man.
F.E.R. Yes -- Christ has entered in.
Ques. What is the force of "worldly sanctuary"?
F.E.R. It was a place where all was ordered in a worldly way. It was all material, whatever it might point to. There was a good deal of beggarly elements in it, but still it was recognised, because God was taking account of man after the flesh, It was divine service, but after a worldly sanctuary, i.e., material, not spiritual. It was called worldly because of the ordering; it was in a kind of way after the world. It was all measured; it was according to the order of this world -- literally and
materially it was a worldly sanctuary.
Rem. It was in keeping with the way God was dealing with man.
F.E.R. The service did not require priests to be spiritual. The divine service was connected with a worldly sanctuary. The apostle shows what was the character of it, and then he goes on to show the contrast. Christ has entered into the holy place, having found eternal redemption. You find in that way a basis for the world to come. Christ came here to establish the will of God.
Ques. What is the force of eternal redemption?
F.E.R. It is in contrast to temporal deliverance. All has been discharged, every burden; every obligation and encumbrance under which man lay is discharged. Christ was both priest and victim. He has obtained eternal redemption. All that we do in connection with the service of God, must in mind be connected with the new order of things. Christ has entered into the holy place; the holy place is the love of God -- the holy place is the start of all.
Christ has entered into heaven itself. The thought is the contrast between the place into which Christ has gone, and where the high priest went once a year. We are connected with Christ as the high priest of good things to come. I could have no part in a christianity which takes account of this world; I would have no part with a state church, because Christ is not connected with that order of things, for He is a high priest of good things to come. Every dissenting system connects itself with the order of this world. Christ is the high priest of good things to come, and I have to recognise Him as such, and these good things have yet to come. Christ has gone in, and has taken that position in regard to man. It was natural and suitable that He should go in, but He has gone in as having taken up that position. In our minds we must be detached from what is connected with this world. That was not the case in the past, nor will it be in the future; but now if we are to be in connection with
Christ, our minds must be detached from the present course of things here. The service of Christ in the previous part of the epistle is to attach us to Him; but here He is the centre and pillar of a vast system of good things. Christianity, so-called, is set up in this world without Christ; you get christians in profession, and it really excludes Christ. I know no system which does not recognise this world. There is a rivalry amongst the systems as to which will be most conspicuous. The divinely appointed order of things is the good things to come. Christianity anticipates that, but professed christianity is brought down to judaism. What we anticipate we hope for.
Rem. It all involves another Man and another world.
F.E.R. Yes, that is just it. The Spirit is here to maintain for Christ, until He comes in again. The Spirit shows us "things to come". The solemn thing is that in the position which Christ has taken up, of High Priest of good things to come, He cannot connect Himself with any religious system here. Many may be in fellowship and yet come to the meetings as to a religious service. It is a serious consideration how far we may have drifted into the line of systematic religious services. We should take these things to heart.
Rem. There is danger of going back to things.
F.E.R. There is nothing of any value, save what is in the power of the Spirit.
Rem. In Malachi 3 they spoke often one to another.
F.E.R. Well, if we come together, let it be as it was with those in Malachi's time -- to communicate one with another, as to the Lord's things. I would like us to come together to meet those who pray, and those whose desire is to enter into the mind of the Lord. I feel that we need to be exercised in regard to these things.
Rem. Exercise is to take the place of system.
F.E.R. Yes, that is it -- the light of good things to come would give character to everything. We are thus brought into the presence of another order of things. It is a wonderful thing to get the conscience purged from
dead works to serve the living God in connection with that order.
Ques. What is the thought in "things above"?
F.E.R. "Things above" are things connected with the place where Christ is. In the early days of the church they continued steadfastly ... in breaking of bread, and in prayers. We should not settle down to a kind of complacency with things as they are. The kingdom of heaven in the hands of man is a ruin. It is conspicuous, but it is a ruin; it has assumed a shape and form which is not according to God. Those who really feel the affliction of the ruin will come together for prayer. The tendency is to drift on, and to settle down into a regular system of things, instead of realising that we are connected with the high priest of good things to come, and are called to serve the living God in connection with that order; and for this it is necessary to be delivered from all the entanglements here. We should not be insensible as to our position as standing apart, and to the state of things within and without us.
Ques. What of the last clause of verse 15: "might receive the promise of eternal inheritance"?
F.E.R. Properly it refers to Israel. We have obtained an inheritance, but it is in Christ. Israel's inheritance will be eternal; it will not be forfeited, nor will it be taken from them, it is eternal. Forgiveness of sins and inheritance are preached in the gospel. The holiest is a moral thought. Christ has gone into a place -- into "heaven itself", an actual place. In the passage "The Son of man which is in heaven", heaven is characteristic. There are holy places here, where God dwells and walks, but the other side is that we enter the holiest, where we enter into and taste the holy love of God, and enter into the secret of His purposes as all centred in Christ.
The Spirit is the pledge of the inheritance.
John 15; Luke 14:25 - 35; Romans 7:4; Hebrews 6:7 - 9
It is evident that we are left here that we might bring forth that which is grateful to God. I want to speak of fruit-bearing in this connection. Fruit is brought forth for God, and by God, as to the source of it. The Lord contemplates that in this chapter, and He makes provision in this chapter for its continuity. There had been fruit in the disciples, and the Lord makes provision that their fruit should abide, that there should be a continuity of it.
I spoke last night of the new situation, and the conditions upon which it is established -- that is Christ on high, and the Comforter here, the effect to us being that we live because Christ lives, and then we know "that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you" (John 14:20). That verse explains the situation, and chapter 15 shows the principle upon which fruit-bearing is dependent. It is spontaneous; works are more or less artificial, but fruit is spontaneous. A healthy vigorous tree yields fruit. Until Christ came, there could not be much fruit. The fig-tree brought forth no fruit and the Lord cursed it. The vine brought forth wild grapes. Both these figures are employed in regard of Israel; they had become a degenerate vine. Now Christ comes, and He was the true Vine, and for the first time there was fruit for God. He says, "I am the vine, ye are the branches", and the condition of fruit-bearing was that they should abide in Him and He in them. Now in the present moment there is no vine; that makes the moment peculiar. Israel, the degenerate vine, is plucked up: they have been eaten up by the "boar out of the wood" (Psalm 80:13). Christ the true Vine is not here, and yet the Lord contemplates continuity of fruit-bearing. That marks the moment as peculiar. Christ the true Vine is not here, but there still was to be fruit. Now we have to take
that into account. The Lord will have continuity; that comes out in all His teaching. He made provision that all that came out when He was upon earth should be continued. Fruit was to be continued although the vine was no longer upon earth. We read in Revelation of the judgment of the spurious vine, but there will be a vine. Israel will yet bring forth fruit unto God, but when they do they will be in connection with Christ; it will be "From me is thy fruit found" (Hosea 14:8). Then they will bring forth fruit to God. But the point in this chapter is that although there was no vine, yet there was to be no cessation of fruit.
I call your attention to verses 7 - 8, "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples". Then verse 16, "I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain". After verse 6, the figure of the vine is dropped, but then you get the principles or conditions under which fruit will be brought forth in us. The first condition is the influence of Christ, and the second is the christian circle, a circle where there can be the exercise of spiritual affection. If these conditions were not there, there could be no fruit for God. When Christ was here, there was the influence of Christ, and there was a circle of which Christ was the centre. No one can imagine what the influence of Christ was in that circle, of which He was the centre. There was unspeakable and inexpressible influence, and they were in a circle where they were under the obligation to love one another. The Lord contemplates His going away here. The most powerful thing here upon earth is the influence of Christ; we may not know much of it, but it is the greatest power on earth. It is the first and most important condition in fruit-bearing. If we abide in Him we come under His influence. I take an illustration -- the earth brings forth fruit. How? Under the influence of the sun -- its heat and warmth. Rain is dependent on the
sun, for without the sun you could not have evaporation. There are many rich people upon earth, but if there were no sun there would be no riches. The millions of acres in men's possession would be barren; there would be no fertility if there were no sun. If land did not yield, what would be the value of gold? Thus all is dependent upon the influence of sun and rain; there is no influence on earth so powerful as the sun. We have steam engines, but they get their power from coal, and coal is dependent on the sun. Therefore all wealth is dependent upon the sun. Now from a moral point of view, the greatest influence and power upon earth is Christ. The influence of Christ will effect things here, which no power upon earth could effect, and therefore the influence of Christ is the first and foremost condition of fruit-bearing.
You may say, What is the influence of Christ? Turn to Luke 14:25. I read there, "... there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them -- whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple". Then the Lord continues as to building a house -- going against a king with twenty thousand, etc. Now to come under the influence of Christ is to be a disciple of Christ. If you are a disciple of Christ you can build a house, and you can go against a king with twenty thousand. The Lord perfectly knew His own worth. I cannot talk of my worth. What the Lord brings before His disciples is -- I am going to exercise an influence paramount to every influence on earth, so that if other influences are contrary to the influence of Christ you must be prepared to revolt against them. I trust that we all here are prepared for that; if we are not, we are not worthy to be His disciples.
His influence must be paramount. He is entitled to it, for "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13). I give a few instances. Abraham was called to leave country, kindred, and father's house. Who called him out from all these things? The One who had capability of blessing him. He was to leave all to come under the influence of God,
who could bless; and that necessitated a breach with the natural ties. God knew what was in His thought for Abraham and so He called him to leave all. Take another ease, Ruth and Orpah. Ruth determined to go with Naomi; she was prepared to turn her back upon her country. What justified it? The influence of Naomi; and she represented the true God -- the God of Israel. Orpah remained, but Ruth clave unto her. She left country and kindred to go with Naomi. Take another case -- Jonathan. He was prepared to break with the closest natural tie, because his heart clave unto David, and why? Because David had smitten Goliath, and he was God's Anointed. Who has come forth on the part of God with every right? It is Christ. He like David was God's Anointed. Who has smitten the power of Satan and accomplished redemption? It is Christ. He is the Elect of God -- the true David, who has given His life for His friends. Now we have come to the true David -- to the true God, who can bless. I ask, is it not reasonable that the influence of Christ should be paramount and supreme to every other influence? If your friends are not contrary to Christ, well and good; but we have to be prepared for a breach with every influence which is counter to the influence of Christ. The Lord Jesus says, A man must forsake all that he has in order to be His disciple. There is to be no influence as potent on man down here as that of Christ. He is God's Anointed -- the One who has come in to take up every liability under which we lay. He went down under death and everything, so that we might be delivered from bondage. He has smitten the head of the enemy that the people of God might be delivered from the fear of death. I tell you the effect of being under the influence of Christ is that you will be kept in your orbit, that is in the path of God's will. No cleverness nor propriety will keep you there; no influence but the influence of Christ will keep you in the path of God's will down here. The influence of Christ will enable you to "build a house", and to overcome the king who comes against you with twenty thousand (Luke 14). The apostle
could say, "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me" (Philippians 4:13). And why? Because be was under the influence of Christ, and was thus kept in the power that could overcome the "twenty thousand". We cannot meet a king with twenty thousand, if we have only ten thousand. But if we are to come under the influence of Christ we must forsake all that we have; that is the condition.
Now I want to speak of the other side (see verses 9 - 12, John 11), "This is my commandment, that ye love one another, as I have loved you", etc. I have spoken of the influence of Christ, and its mighty power. What people do in the world are not really mighty things. Kings may take account of destruction in war, but that is not mighty in the eye of God. Mary spent her ointment, three hundred pennyworth, on Christ, and that was a great victory under the eye of God. The overcoming of what is natural, and refusing all distinction here; that is a mighty power here, for nothing else could bring about such results.
Now we cannot do without a circle here; it would never do for a christian to be shut up to himself. In a circle you have scope for affection; an only child lacks brother and sister -- it lacks opportunity and scope for its affections. On the day of Pentecost a circle was formed, Christ formed the circle, and the Holy Spirit came and dwelt there. To be truly in the christian circle is extremely important. You cannot "bring forth much fruit" by merely going to meetings or preachings; that will not enable you to bring forth fruit to God. We need to be in the christian circle. I do not want to discourage you from going to meetings, but I want you to take great account of the christian circle, for there it is you are moulded in christian affection. Encourage yourself to have your full part in the christian circle; I do not mean the family circle. I like to see affection there, of course, for it is right that there should be family affection, but it is in the christian circle that spiritual affections are moulded, and it is in that circle that we escape the
influence of the world. There was a potent influence introduced in the influence of Christ, but He took care that there should be a retreat; He formed a circle before ever the gospel went out. Before the apostles went out to preach there existed a christian circle formed by Christ. Take advantage of the christian circle, even of what comes to your hand. Do not despise what comes to your hand, even though it be a little circle. Depend upon it what comes to your hand is not despised by the Lord, and your wisdom is to take the fullest possible advantage of what is there -- enjoy the spiritual affection, and be careful to fulfil your part in it. Christ took what came to His hand -- just a few fishermen, but He loved them, and He taught them to love Him and to love one another.
One word more. There are those two conditions which I have spoken of under which we bring forth fruit to God. The first is the influence of Christ, and the second is the enjoyment of the christian circle. I counsel you to take full advantage of both, so that our distinguishing mark may not be merely as a people who go to meetings, but as those who are under the influence of Christ, where we get the full benefit of sunshine and rain.
May God exercise our hearts as to these necessary and divinely appointed conditions, so that there may be continuity in bearing fruit for God. It will be so with Israel by and by; the fruit will reproduce itself. So with us. If we continue in these conditions we shall bring forth fruit, and the fruit will reproduce itself and will abide.
F.E.R. There has been some confusion in people's minds as to the sanctuary -- the house of God -- the holiest, and so on; it might be well to clear these up.
F.E.R. The house of God in this chapter is composed of the companions of Christ. Christ was the Builder of the house, and those who had been the companions of Christ upon earth became the house of God in the day of Pentecost; the Holy Spirit came to them. "We are become companions of the Christ" (New Trans). "Whose house are we". "If we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end". It is conditional.
Ques. Has it reference to the wilderness?
F.E.R. Yes; all is now provisional; all is final in regard to Christ, but in regard to us all is provisional.
Ques. Does the house include profession?
F.E.R. People may take the ground of the house of God, but it is put conditionally here. It is "if". The end will prove who are real and who are only professors.
Ques. May there not be two classes, those who perish in the wilderness, who do not go on to God's purpose, and apostates?
F.E.R. I should not say there were two classes. Falling in the wilderness is an end of them. There are a great many people who do not go on to the ground of divine purpose, who do not become apostate. People do not become apostate all in a moment. The beginning of departure is very small; defection is very gradual. In connection with the house of God, it is important to see that it is said here, "as says the Holy Spirit", not as Scripture says; there is a constant gracious appeal of the Holy Spirit, and that gives the idea of the house of God. "Perishing" in the wilderness is really apostasy -- the
sheep of Christ can never perish; they are in Christ's hands. It is a poor affair and anomalous, not going on to the other side of death to God's purpose.
F.E.R. God showed him the land, but J.N.D. has often said, the lawgiver could not go into the land; but God showed Moses all the land. I think I should have been very well content with that. The heart of Moses was in the land, and God gratified his heart. The people had to be led into the land by Joshua -- the type of a risen Christ. Moses was a priest; people forget that; he was apostle, but he also discharged the highest priestly functions. At the consecration of the priests all the consecrations had to be carried out by Moses. And we get "Moses and Aaron among his priests" (Psalm 99:6). Aaron represented the people more, but you must not forget that Moses discharged priestly function, and offered sacrifices. All that took place at the consecration of the priests was carried out by Moses. Moses was a very great man; there is no more distinguished man than Moses; he was apostle and priest in the highest sense, and he was king too. Moses had to carry out the intercessory place, when Aaron led the people to the golden calf. But we are getting away from the "house".
The first idea we get of the house of God is in Israel; they had that place, Moses was "faithful in all his house". I take that to be a reference to what God said to Aaron and Miriam. Mere professors may take their place as on that ground, but I do not think scripture so contemplates them. The church had the character of the house of God at the beginning, but the great house is brought in as a figure, as to what was to come in in christendom. In the beginning of Acts the church had that character. If a man has not the Spirit, I could not say he forms part of the house. It is a spiritual house. The Spirit brings into the house because it is spiritual.
Rem. The corrupter of real christians will be destroyed.
F.E.R. The pope has done his best to introduce doctrines which would corrupt christians. Even in regard of Israel the thought was that God would dwell among them, and the basis of that was redemption. It became possible in figure, because of redemption, for God to dwell among them, and Israel was the house of God in that way. It would not do to diminish the privileges which belonged to Israel. God dwelt among them, and so they were God's house. In dwelling among them God took up in figure a representation of that which was before Him. He set up in their midst a testimony of what was before Him. The house, in that way, is figured in the tabernacle. There was a redeemed people, and God dwelt among them, and they were the house of God so far, but that was not final, for the people perished in the wilderness, but God took care to set up in the midst of Israel a figure of Him who was before Him as the One to establish the true house of God. Israel did not see what God had in view; they were not wise. If they had been, they might have seen that nothing could be established in connection with them. The tabernacle pointed on to the world to come. The Spirit of God has opened up to us the final issue of things, but a wise Israelite would have been taken up with what God had before Him in the tabernacle.
The dwelling of God in the world to come is universal. The tabernacle refers to the "all things", and "He who has built all things is God". The tabernacle was the pattern of "all things", i.e., of the universe as the house of God. The present world is governed by the providence of God; in the world to come all will be ordered by the presence of God. If Israel did break down, they really had in their midst the figurative representation of things in heaven. The tabernacle was anointed with oil; that prefigured that the world to come would be set up in the power of the Holy Spirit. All will be then the dwelling-place of God; the presence and influence of God will be felt everywhere. In the world to come, we are going to have a grand time. A man is a fool who wants to go to see
Jerusalem now -- I wait to see Mount Zion, I want to walk over it, in that day. It will not be material; "thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise" (Isaiah 60:18).
Now we may turn our thoughts from Israel and look at the tabernacle which was the figurative representation of "all things". What we have now is not the world to come (though we "speak" of it), but what was set forth then in the tabernacle is realised by us now of whom it is said, "whose house are we". It is anticipative in us, but it is real; for God dwells in it now figuratively as in regard of Israel, but in a real way. We have now in reality what in figure was set up by Moses. The house of God is all obscured now, but it is a great thing to take what comes to your hand. When the Lord was going to feed the five thousand He took up what came to hand -- only five loaves! He did not refuse these.
There are many in fellowship with us who think that there are better people in system than there are amongst us. Probably there are better christians practically, but the practical difficulty is that they are not to hand. Our wisdom is to take what is to hand, and to be content with these, for the Lord disposes all things. The christians who are mixed up in system, they are not to hand, and we cannot walk with them. I want to make the best of what is to hand.
Ques. What is "the true tabernacle"?
F.E.R. It was what "the Lord pitched". On the day of Pentecost the work was all the Lord's work; there was no work of man in it at all.
Now as to the sanctuary -- the sanctuary took in the court. We read in history that when men committed crimes, they went into sanctuary, where the arm of the law could not reach them. That referred to the precincts of monasteries -- Grey Friars, Black Friars, etc.
The sanctuary refers not only to the building, but it includes all hallowed precincts, and christian baptism introduces to that.
Rem. Children are there, (1 Corinthians 7).
F.E.R. The children are in sanctuary, and they are admitted by baptism. No one can go into the court of the tabernacle except through the gate or door.
Ques. What is "wood, hay, stubble"?
F.E.R. It refers to what is built up in people's souls. It is the superstructure, built upon a good foundation. The sacramental system was brought in by those who were not christians, but true christians have become corrupted through that. The house of God is here, it is obscured, and you cannot get it cleared from the obscurity. The great thing is for us to get light as to what is God's thought, and to go on in the light of that. False teachers came into Corinth, and they introduced what was never taught by the apostles. False notions are brought in by people who are not christians, and the mischief is that real christians are affected and influenced by these. See how real christians are influenced by sacramentalism. Christ is Great Priest over God's house.
Rem. It is terrible how people go about here and there from curiosity, to hear and see what is going on.
F.E.R. Having "itching ears". The sanctuary includes every pan, the building and the court included. Wise Israelites would have turned to the tabernacle. Joshua felt it was useless to count upon the stability of the people. Wisdom would be to turn their attention to what God had established among them.
Rem. Moses was a servant -- Christ was a Son.
F.E.R. Moses was a servant in having no authority of his own. He was faithful in setting up all as God had directed him. Now the actual thing exists, and Christ is Son over it.
It is a great word which we get at the close of this chapter, "Be of good cheer; I have overcome the world". It really involves that Christ will bring in another world -- the Father's world. He overcame the existing world, every other one had been overcome by it, but He overcame it, and He would establish the Father's world. That is a passing remark.
What I want to bring before you is the importance of having a commanding interest. It is necessary to man, because of how he is constituted. People who have no commanding interest are apathetic and listless. In the world people are commanded by different interests; one by business, another by politics, and another by science. A man with a commanding interest has an aim in life. It is important that we should be here as having an aim. I see people who lack energy because they have no definite object to pursue. It would greatly affect people if they had a commanding interest. I want to bring that out of this chapter. But to go back for a moment -- the basis of chapter 14 is the coming of the Comforter. The relation of the Comforter with the saints down here is unfolded in chapter 14. The point in chapter 15 is our relation to the Father and the Father's relation to us. We begin with the Spirit, and then we learn the relation in which we stand to Christ, and from that we are led on to our relation to the Father. It is in connection with the Father that we find our commanding interest, and we want to know what that interest is, and to be regulated and commanded by it. Take the Israelite of old. When the tabernacle was set up, what would then be his supreme interest? The tabernacle! Now the tabernacle was the truth. As to their practical state, they were perverse and lawless, and that was not the truth, but the tabernacle was figuratively the truth, and that was to be the Israelites' supreme interest. So now the truth is to be
our commanding interest. The Lord says of the Spirit, "He will guide you into all truth", and the truth is to be our commanding interest. I shall try and make plain to you what the truth is, and then press upon you that every energy that you have should be bent on promoting the truth.
One word more as to these chapters. In chapter 14 we get the Spirit. I would compare that with the first epistle to the Corinthians, which unfolds our relation to the Spirit, and the Spirit's relation to us. Two great truths come out there. They were the temple of God -- the Spirit of God dwelt in them, and they were baptised into one body, by one Spirit. Then chapter 15 compares with the epistle to the Colossians, where they were "fruitful in every good work", because they stood in relation to Christ. Then chapter 16 compares with Ephesians. The Father's world is "the truth". This world is kept up by appearances, and that is not truth; the truth is the Father's world. People think that the truth is the bald exposure of what is very wicked. The exposure of wickedness is not truth; truth is what things are in regard to God and there is no wickedness in that. It is of God, and according to God. You will find it profitable to compare these scriptures at your leisure.
There are three points I want to touch on in chapter 16: (1) see verse 10, "Of righteousness, because I go to my Father"; (2) verse 13, "When he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth"; (3) verse 23, "In that day ye shall ask me nothing ... whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you". Thus the first point is, righteousness; (2nd) the whole truth -- the "all things"; (3rd) Christ's Name. If you do not apprehend the "all things", you cannot apprehend what Christ's name imports. The "all things" are the Father's things. In regard to the first point, "of righteousness, because I go to my Father", men would like to get rid of these principles -- sin, righteousness, and judgment -- men would blot out these words in their scriptural meaning, in their moral significance, from
their vocabulary. Man dislikes the idea of things being brought to a point. But the Holy Spirit would come and substantiate these principles; He would bring demonstration of them. The world is declared to be lawless -- but there is righteousness there. The Spirit maintains that, for it is the principle and basis of God's world. What is here is Satan's world. God's world is with the Father; it is hid, but it will be developed and displayed -- there is a world to come out from the Father. Righteousness is gone to the Father; righteousness is there as the basis and bond of God's world. There, too, judgment will be maintained. "The prince of this world is judged", John 16:11. There is a world which for the moment is hid in God in Christ. It is important to apprehend righteousness; it is the basis and bond of God's world -- the coming world, and Christ is the righteousness of the whole world to come! The nations will be justified in Christ. Israel will be justified in Christ. The basis and bond of the coming world is there. Christ is with the Father. The Lord says, "righteousness because I go to my Father". It could not be said until Christ was there.
"All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you". I venture to read the prayer at the end of Ephesians 3:14 - 21. See especially verses 15 and 16, "Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named", etc. All these families go to make the "all things". "He that built all things is God", Hebrews 3:4. The tabernacle was the pattern of the "all things", not as we see them but as they are in the purpose of God. "Of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named" (Ephesians 3:15, New Trans.). The expression "all things" leaves nothing out. They are not what our senses can take account of; they are what are before the Father.
To go back to Israel, when the people made a golden calf, what must Moses and Joshua have thought of the people? There was nothing in the contemplation of the people to give pleasure, but there was in the tabernacle,
which was set up in the midst of Israel. Look around christendom -- can you get satisfaction in that? Is there satisfaction in popery, or in the eastern church? or even in Protestantism or in any existing bodies which surround us in this country or in other countries? We want to comprehend the "all things"; we want to contemplate them, and that is what the Holy Spirit would bring before our view. The Lord explains what are His things; they are "all things that the Father hath". Every family is named of the Father. The "all things" can only be taken account of by the Spirit of God. We want to have in view a world different from this world. For the Father everything is established in the Son; all depends on the fact that the Son is with the Father. All that was prefigured in the tabernacle is in Christ. The whole world to come is hid in Christ with the Father. The Holy Spirit can show us all that. It is He who can bring it before us. "The truth" is what is before God in Christ, and God would have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. The different families have not yet come into view, but all is hid in Christ with the Father. "All things that the Father hath are mine". I would like to impress upon you that, in the world that will be of the Father, all belongs to the Son, and it is for that reason that the apostle prays that "Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith", that the saints might comprehend the breadth, and length, and depth, and height.
Now as to the name -- asking in His name. The Lord says, "Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you". "At that day ye shall ask in my name" (chapter 16: 26). We get brought out in this chapter our relation to the Father, and the relation of the Father to us. "The Father himself loveth you". They had a commendation to the Father, and that was that they loved the Son. The Father loved them because they loved the Son. If you knew the Father's love, you would have no difficulty in approaching Him, but then we approach the Father in the name of the Son. Now in
connection with that name we could not ask for any benefit in this world, for I cannot connect His name with this world; I connect it with the Father's world. The name of the Son is in connection with that world -- I would ask in the name of the Son whatever would tend to promote that world. To come to the application of it -- we are not being formed for this world, but for the Father's world. The apostle's prayer in Ephesians 3 was in Christ's name. He prayed to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ -- that prayer would tend to promote the Father's world, both in oneself and in one another. Many are content with the conversion of others. That is the first step, but we want those who are converted to be attached to Christ, and to be conformed to the Father's world.
I appreciate the position. I abide in Christ, and bring forth fruit, and I love the brethren, and I am controlled by a supreme interest -- even the Father's world. We ought to be a pattern to other saints. The apostle Paul could say, "I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds", Acts 26:29. The desire of every christian ought to be to cultivate what would promote these things, first for ourselves, and then being a pattern to others we seek that it should be promoted in others.
The interest of supreme importance is the "all things" that are of Christ, and which the Holy Spirit brings the report of. We have our part in it; Christ dwells in our hearts by faith. When we have thus this commanding interest we have confidence to approach the Father -- to ask in Christ's name. I think each one should be so controlled by the Father's things that he can say, 'I should like every saint to be in the same position as myself, so that he might have liberty of approach to the Father'. The whole system of the world to come, will come out when Christ comes out from the Father. The heavenly city will play a most important part in that day, and why? Because we have been
instructed here in the light of the Father's world. If people have not a commanding interest in this way they are bound to drop down to the level of things here, and so become listless in regard of God's things. It is of all importance that we should have an interest which commands us here.
May God lead us into it in His grace.
F.E.R. We might go on with what we had before us yesterday.
The present moment is peculiar in a way; although we have not got things in their final shape, yet we have come to the end of things. Take a simple thought -- to have put off the old man, and put on the new (Colossians 3:9 - 10). Well, that is not final or absolute, and yet it is true. We have come to what is final, in a way, and yet not in an absolute way. We have come to it in spiritual power. So again -- "raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places", Ephesians 2:6. We have in a way come to that, and yet not in a final way. We await the actuality. The Spirit has come down to lead us into the anticipation of what is final. All is final that is established in Christ; it is all according to God's purpose, and in that way final; and yet we have not come to the display.
Ques. "Reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin" Romans 6:11?
F.E.R. The "reckoning" is possible, because Christ has brought in all that is final; all that is final is brought in in Christ, and therefore we can reckon it to be true of ourselves. We have the Spirit of Christ, so that we can take account of things according to Christ; you can take account of things differently from what they actually are. We are not "dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God" (Romans 6:11), but it is true of us in Christ, and we can be in accord with that by the Spirit. What has been reached in effect and fact in Christ, has to be reached in us, in mind. Christ has been crucified and has died; that is true in effect and fact, but we reach it in mind. So the putting off the old man and putting on the new is the "truth in Jesus". Christ has reached it in effect and fact, but we reach it in mind. We could not reach it in mind unless it had been brought to pass in
Christ, and we reach it, by having the Spirit of Christ.
Ques. How does that bear on the holiest?
F.E.R. I was thinking of it in connection with "no more conscience of sins". When you have found that the sins belonged to another man, and you get free of that man, then you have no more conscience of sins. We get sanctified by being apart from the man. Conscience is no part of a man, it belongs to neither the old man, nor the new; it is the connecting link. It is no part of a man, because you cannot control it; it is a witness-bearer. Conscience will bear witness, whether man likes it or not. Keep yourself right.
Ques. What is a "seared conscience"?
F.E.R. It is when a man is so demoralised that his conscience does not bear witness; the man then comes to the level of the beast. A man can violently silence his conscience. "No more conscience of sins" is arrived at, when you are apart from the man that sinned, and that is very intimately connected with "reckoning". You cannot take that ground unless you have reached it. If you are formed in the divine nature, you are another man. There is another man then, and there is no more conscience of sins: the divine nature is the evidence that I have put on the new man. It is impossible to have no more conscience of sins, unless you are apart from the man that sinned. It is then "no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me". We come to that point by the process described in Romans 7. I distinguish between myself and sin. If I think of the old man I only think of him as put off.
Individuality is character. If you have put off the old man, and have put on the new, then you understand it. It is the same person who puts off and puts on. Another nature means another man.
F.E.R. We get "purge your conscience from dead works" in chapter 9, but these chapters show the extent of the purgation. We are "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ" -- we are apart from
the old man, and the new man is put on; sin does not attach to us. "Dead works" are works done while a man is in a state of moral or spiritual death. There are plenty of dead works going on today; there are religious works carried on by the old man. The new man does not sin; the new man is "created in truthful righteousness and holiness", Ephesians 4:24. The new man exists in the mind of the believer. The whole extent to which I go is that I have put on the new man. I cannot say that I am the new man; if I were I should never sin; but I put on the new man; he controls my practice: the new man is the "truth in Jesus", not in us. What is final and established in Christ is reached in us in mind; that gives christianity its peculiar form. "As many as walk according to this rule" (Galatians 6:16), i.e., of new creation. We walk according to the rule of new creation; that is the rule of the new man. My practice is controlled by the new man, and therefore in character it is "after God". In Christ risen we see Man according to God, but on the cross all the state of the old man was condemned and removed, and so in Jesus you get the putting off of the old man, and putting on the new.
Ques. Why are sins spoken of here, since underlying it there is the removal of the man?
F.E.R. Because when it is a question of entering the holiest all that is connected with your responsibility is put away; it has nothing to do with it. We should not confound the meeting with the holiest. If you enter the holiest, and your mind reaches the holiest, things are entirely settled for you. You are occupied with what God presents to you, and you meditate. I believe that is the proper qualification for priestly function. It is what you have seen in the holiest that qualifies for worship. We are encouraged to enter the holiest to learn the secret of God. Entering the holiest is individual, and the part you take in the assembly is to be the effect of your having been in the holiest. People either come to the meeting as believers or as priests. You can tell by what people do whether they are there as priests or believers.
All are believers, but all are not priests. You cannot discharge priestly function without being qualified. The sons of Aaron could not officiate until they were consecrated.
You are not going to get something wonderful in the meeting unless you bring it there.
Everyone comes to the meeting according to his measure; everything has to contribute to the priest -- tithes, etc. -- the priest is to be nourished and fed. If a man comes to the meeting merely as a believer, he is not in accord with Christ. He may come to Christ as an object of reverence. If you are there as a priest, you are kindred to Christ, and that is entirely different ground. "Yourselves also as living stones", 1 Peter 2:15. He is a Living Stone, and you come to Him as living stones; you enter into the holiest to get perfect assurance of heart. On the mount of transfiguration the disciples were in the holiest; they heard the "excellent voice". I would not confine the holiest to the present moment. God will be revealed in the world to come.
We have to recognise that everything had to be contributory to the priest. The great point to which we are called is priestly service. We are called to serve the living God. We get tithes from everything which contributes to us as one who serves the living God. The priest is to serve the living God; and then there are things in service which have priestly character. You learn in the holiest what you cannot learn anywhere else. It is there we learn what Christ is, not for us, but for God. We know Him as the ark of the covenant and the mercy-seat. It is where God has established every purpose of His heart according to His nature, and that is a very big thought. The Lord took up the three disciples to the mount of transfiguration that He might give them assurance of heart. The holiest is full of glory. Man despised Christ here, but the disciples went up where they "saw no man save Jesus only". The man who had not come under the new covenant could not enter the holiest, so Hebrews 8 precedes chapter 10. If we have
learnt what it is to be in the holiest, then you can bring all the effect of it into the meeting. We cannot enter the holiest en masse.
There is a great difference between the sanctuary and the holiest. What you get in the holiest is what you can use in the assembly. A priest is not a priest without training. Hebrews 10 is the climax. Chapters 11 and 12 bring in the path and the life of faith. Reverence and worldliness may go together. I care for no reverence except what is produced by the sense of the presence of God. I do not care for anything which is not moral. I do not care for what is formal or reverential. These are often united, and there is the form of piety which is often imposing, but it is really what I spoke of as attitudinarianism. On the other hand, there should not be irreverence, but, as I have said, it is the sense of the presence of God which produces real reverence.
Hebrews 12:18 - 29
F.E.R. In chapter 10 we get the holiest; here we get the land of promise, i.e., breadth and length, and depth, and height -- and that is outward in a sense. You could not get a survey of breadth, length, depth, and height except as you had entered the holiest. You have first to learn how God is going to carry all out, and how Christ is going to fill all things. How is God going to effect all this length and breadth and depth and height? You learn it in the holiest. The ark of the covenant is there, and in it you get the law of God established, and a point of communication with men in the mercy-seat. These two points are essential. It is only on the ark of the covenant that you could get the mercy-seat. The law of God is in the heart of Christ; it is secured in the One who accomplished redemption. God could not touch man otherwise except in judgment. The law of God is secured in relation to men, and God puts Himself in communication with men at that point. "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation (mercy-seat) through faith in his blood" (Romans 3:25). What a man is first awakened to, is his own position in relation to God, and that God is a judge. In regard to the land of promise, the first thing is to have Christ "dwelling in the heart by faith".
You could not otherwise comprehend length, breadth, depth, and height. We want to know what is going to fill that. You learn it in the holiest: what is seen there is the ark of the covenant and the mercy-seat.
Ques. What do you understand by the land of promise?
F.E.R. It is what is in the purpose of God to accomplish; if we are off the ground of responsibility, then we come to all that God is going to accomplish.
Ques. That would carry us on to the eternal state?
F.E.R. Well, here it does not go beyond the world to
come. It is that we are come to mount Zion, and to the Mediator of the new covenant, etc. The eternal state is brought before us as the final solution and disentanglement of the question of good and evil. What is brought before us in Scripture is the world to come. The rest of God as in Hebrews 4 refers to the world to come. The world to come is really the glory of God. Mount Zion is the first element of the world to come. A mountain in Scripture represents a power. Israel came under the influence of a power, and they were dreadfully frightened; it was a power that struck them with terror.
Rem. "Ye have come" means that we have come to it in a spiritual way; we shall come to it actually by and by.
F.E.R. In the wilderness they had a mount, but they had no city. In figure we get the city in David. He brought back the ark to mount Zion. You get a mount and a city. All had broken down under Mount Sinai -- then David is chosen and the ark is brought back, and then you get Jerusalem, the city of David, and in that way we get a figure of what will be. Now we have mount Zion, and the city of the living God; the heavenly Jerusalem. We have come to these.
F.E.R. Mount Zion is Christ risen. The ark of the covenant had fallen into the hand of the Philistines, but Christ has been brought again from the dead, the great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, redemption having been accomplished. The Philistines put Christ to death; it was not by the true people of God that Christ was crucified. But then when all was forfeited, God brought Him again from the dead; thus typically the ark was brought to mount Zion. The men of faith in Hebrews 11 had promises, but they had not come to anything; but now that Christ is there, and the Spirit here, we have come to everything in that way. We have come to the sure mercies of David in having come to mount Zion. See Acts 13 in that connection; it is most interesting (see verse 32, etc.). The promise made
to the fathers God has fulfilled. He has raised up Jesus, as it is said, "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee". Then concerning that He raised Him up from the dead, He said on this wise, "I will give you the sure mercies of David" (Acts 13:34). It is resurrection, you see, and the bringing back of the ark (typifying resurrection) meant the sure mercies of David. He was brought again from the dead in the blood of the everlasting covenant (see end of Psalm 78:60): "So that he forsook the tabernacle of Shiloh, the tent which he placed among men; and delivered his strength into captivity and his glory into the enemy's hand"; verse 65: "Then the Lord awaked as one out of sleep"; verse 68: "But chose ... the mount Zion which he loved"; verse 70: "He chose David also his servant"; verse 72: "So he fed them according to the integrity of his heart; and guided them by the skilfulness of his hands". The ways of God are recounted; all was lost, and then God comes in, in sovereign mercy. He chose mount Zion and David, and then you get the sure mercies of David. Mount Zion in that way is Christ risen. We have come to a city. A city is a pledge of stability. You get no city connected with mount Sinai, you get it in connection with David. Israel had forfeited all by unfaithfulness. They took the ark into the land of the Philistines. Then the ark is brought back to mount Zion, and the sure mercies of David are secured. Then you get Jerusalem, a city which hath foundations: it was built upon the sovereign mercy of God. The church, too, has been taken by the Philistines. The same thing has been repeated as with Christ. It is a great thing to have come to mount Zion, and to the city of the living God. On coming to Christ risen we have come to mount Zion.
Rem. We have come to all that is stable in connection with a risen Christ, i.e., we have come to the city of the living God.
F.E.R. The moment Christ is exalted, and the Spirit given, all is there.
Rem. It is all there in Christ, and all here in the Spirit.
F.E.R. All is final in connection with Christ; all is established in Him. The old covenant is worn out, and the new is brought in.
Rem. Everything is established in Christ risen, the man of God's purpose, and the Spirit has come down to maintain that here, and to lead us into the present good of what is established.
Rem. Our ability to enter into these things depends upon our attachment to Christ.
F.E.R. Yes, I think so. The church of the firstborn is God's position. The city is the pledge of stability; it rules. It is a great witness on the part of God "That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace, in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:7). It is the display that is the pledge of stability.
Ques. The angels -- the general assembly?
F.E.R. They are like the mountains round about Jerusalem; so the Lord encompasses His people. The testimony of the gospel now is the pledge of the present mercy of God. By and by the church -- the heavenly city -- will be a witness of the grace of God, the river of the water of life, flowing forth; and no one will be afraid of God; they will see the exceeding riches of God's grace. "To myriads of angels, the universal gathering". They are the great protection of Jerusalem. The Lord is round about His people, as the mountains are round about Jerusalem.
Ques. Heavenly Jerusalem, and the assembly of the firstborn?
F.E.R. The former hangs upon mount Zion. You get a great power, and then a pledge of stability. That is the first element. When people are paralysed with terror, as at Sinai, there is no stability at all; there is no strength about them. The church of the firstborn ones, is for God; it is what God has for Himself. It is His portion.
Then "to God the Judge of all", because all is in view of the world to come. When God Himself is Judge, He
does not hide Himself behind a veil of providence; God Himself is Judge; judgment is not entrusted to others. "To the spirits of just men made perfect". It is the men that are perfected, not the spirits. "The church of the first-born which are written in heaven". Those are God's portion. We have very little seen that Scripture has in view a world to come. We are told very little of the eternal state; we are not capable of understanding what will be then. Even Ephesians is all in view of "the dispensation of the fulness of times". In the gates of the heavenly city, you get the names of the twelve tribes. It is the progeny of Isaac and Rebecca. It is in that way you get the true Israel; it comes out of Christ and the church. "Behold I make all things new". That carries us on to the eternal state. The world to come represents the glory of God. It represents the moral triumph of God. This world is the dishonour of God. God might have abolished all by judgment, but then there would have been no evidence of His glory -- of His triumph; everything is to be shaken; stars are to fall; the powers of heaven are to be shaken. There is to be a great shake-up both in heaven and on earth -- it will be a political shaking. This new western system that they are so proud of will be all smashed up. I fancy God will use civil war to break it all up. Heaven will be shaken too, because Satan will be cast out. Michael and his angels are to fight against him.
There are three things we have come to here -- the Mediator of the new covenant, the blood of sprinkling, and the "better things". The blood of sprinkling speaks better things, because it is purging. Abel's blood was a witness of murder, and that defiled the earth. The blood of Christ did make an appeal to God for judgment, but still it calls for redemption. The cleansing comes in by the blood of Christ; we have come to that. We have come to Jesus, and to the blood of sprinkling; we have come to a complete system because it takes in heaven and earth. Sprinkling is purifying. It will be applied to Israel by and by; but we have come to it now. The church is the
greatest feature in the world to come. What would the universe be without the sun? "Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (Matthew 13:43). The church in that way will have the place of rule; we "shall reign in life" -- look at things morally. We shall be able to tell a Jew more about his calling than he knows himself. Our knowledge of God in His ways and dealings is so profound; we are so instructed in them that we shall be able to go here, and there, and everywhere, and instruct others. Everything in the present moment is taken up in the church, so that we may be instructed in every way of God. The church is so profound in its acquaintance with God, that it can instruct, and will sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. The church is the house of God -- the flock, etc. -- and thus we can instruct a few perfectly in these things.
Ques. Why might mount Sinai be touched?
F.E.R. We have not come to what is material. Mount Sinai was material. Sacraments are taken up in that way (i.e., materially) -- that requires no spirituality. When we come to christianity in its true character, the least thing will affect you -- will affect your spirit. You have to take care that you are not affected spiritually, i.e., in your spirit. Christendom has gone back to what is material and what appeals to the senses -- great buildings, etc. -- the clergy have all that kind of thought.
D.L.H. We have been on the subject of salvation and life, and the connection between the two. Would you mind giving a little outline of what was in your own mind in suggesting the subject?
F.E.R. The apostle introduces himself in this epistle and in the epistle to Titus, as an apostle in connection with life, and it is plain on the face of it that salvation has a prominent place in both epistles. The fact is, the two things must inevitably be bound up together. You can only have salvation in life. I think there is a little difference between this epistle and the epistle to Titus. In the latter the thought is "in hope of eternal life" but in this epistle it is not the hope of eternal life he speaks of in the introduction. It is "according to promise of life, the life which is in Christ Jesus", and it has now all come to light (see chapter 1: 10). Life and incorruptibility are brought to light, but they are bound up with salvation -- "who has saved us, and has called us" (chapter 1: 9).
W.J. Do you distinguish between life in Christ Jesus and eternal life?
F.E.R. I think so. Eternal life has a much more dispensational thought, but life in Christ Jesus is purely a moral thought. You could not speak of life in Christ Jesus as being dispensational.
D.L.H. Is it more what you get in the gospel of John?
F.E.R. Yes -- in Christ Jesus. You do not get the dispensational thought in the gospel. It is the living bread which came down from heaven -- the Spirit is a well of water springing up into everlasting life. What comes out in this epistle is that anything which is life morally is in Christ Jesus. In the second and third chapters of this epistle you get the contrast of what would come in with the corruption of christianity, and
the reality of life in Christ Jesus.
W.O. Jannes and Jambres were foiled by life.
F.E.R. Yes. It is the only thing which will meet the existing state of things -- that is, life in Christ Jesus. You cannot attempt to counteract the existing state of things by mere outward ecclesiastical order. The apostle says, "Thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life", that is life-the life which is in Christ Jesus.
D.L.H. You would not say with regard to eternal life that you can lay down any rule as to the dispensational meaning of it, because there are times when it has a different application?
F.E.R. No, but I think there is the dispensational thought in it. In Matthew, Mark and Luke you get the thought dispensationally, in John morally.
D.L.H. You do get one expression in John's epistle -- "the promise which He has promised us, eternal life".
F.E.R. Yes, but he has defined what it is, and then adds, "this is the promise".
W.O. Is eternal life always an objective thought?
W.J. There is one passage that presents a difficulty, "no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him". I see that eternal life is objective, but that passage presents difficulty to my mind.
F.E.R. What I understand by it is that if you dwell in eternal life, eternal life dwells in you -- if you dwell in it, the truth of it dwells in you. The word dwelling is to my mind the important part in it. He (the murderer) has not the truth abiding in him, but if you abide in it, it abides in you. I have not a doubt that eternal life is abiding in christians, but if they are not abiding in it it does not abide in them. The great point for us is to abide in it.
D.L.H. When you say "abide in it", what do you refer to exactly?
F.E.R. I think you have to continue in all the conditions in which it consists, and if you do so, you
continue in it. If you were to take a living child and put it into a vessel hermetically sealed, the child would die. In order to live, it has to live in the atmosphere, and in the light, and under rule; it can only live in those conditions; so we have to abide in the conditions. Of course, with us it is not a material but a moral thought.
B. Is that why Timothy is exhorted to "lay hold of eternal life"?
F.E.R. Yes, quite so. If you come to moral considerations, it is very important to remember that no person can claim to possess anything except that into which he has entered. I do not think that can be disputed for a moment.
W.B. But are not there many things true of a man before he apprehends them?
W.B. Suppose you take a newly converted soul. Is not that soul accepted in the Beloved?
F.E.R. I should not predicate that of it. I should predicate it of the Ephesians, but not of the newly born believer.
W.B. I should have no hesitation in saying that every believer was taken into favour in the Beloved.
F.E.R. But you would have no warrant for saying so. You apply a scripture which has no application to the case at all. The realisation of a thing is the possession of it, and no one can claim to possess a thing into which he has not entered.
J.B. You are speaking of the realisation of it on our side.
W.B. But I go a little further, and say it is true of them.
F.E.R. Then you have no warrant. If you put people in possession of something into which they have not entered, you take it out of the moral sphere, and make it material.
W.B. Is it that a man becomes a child of God when
F.E.R. No. When he believes what is God's mind as set forth in Christ -- then he really comes into sonship "ye are all God's sons by faith in Christ Jesus".
W.B. But you would not say of believers that some are the children of God and some are not?
F.E.R. I should not say so, but I should suppose that there are many believers who have not an idea of sonship. Everything is on the side of apprehension. You get the perfect expression of God's mind in regard of man in Christ, but I think that mind must be apprehended and then we enter into what God's thought is.
J.B. Christ is the mind of God for every man, hence eternal life is for every man. Otherwise you could not say, "He that believeth not God hath made him a liar".
F.E.R. It is distinct in John 3 -- "God so loved ... eternal life" (verse 16). It is God's thought of man and set forth in Christ.
D.L.H. There is a certain difficulty in taking up scriptures, say at a public reading, because a great number of persons may not be, for instance, in the 'Ephesian' condition.
F.E.R. A very great deal of difficulty. If you were to take the mass of christians in christendom at the present time, what is put forth in Galatians and Corinthians would have much more application to them.
D.E.R. I think one has to bear constantly in mind that the epistle to the Ephesians was written to the Ephesian people, who were in a certain apprehension of divine things -- the Spirit had formed them, and so with other epistles.
W.B. And yet to them the exhortation was given, "Let him that stole steal no more".
F.E.R. But you must not stop there, B., because I think there was to be the expression and exemplification of having put off the old man and put on the new.
W.B. I have great difficulty in taking up these passages, and thinking that they only become true when they are made good in the soul.
F.E.R. What I said was that no one can claim anything that is moral except as he enters into it.
W.B. But I could labour to show a believer that he stood in the favour of God.
F.E.R. I would not work that way. I would work all I could in the way of testimony to present what Christ is, before God, as the perfect expression of God in regard of man. The apostle says, "whom we preach warning every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus" -- there was the end for the apostle's labour.
Ques. Then the idea would not be that they had things, but to present to them the things in Christ?
F.E.R. Yes -- to present to them the things in Christ as being the mind of God, in regard of men -- there is a wonderful width in it.
B.J. I suppose the way we apprehend things is by the Spirit.
Ques. Are all the privileges of the saints made good for faith?
F.E.R. I think faith apprehends them -- "Ye are all God's sons by faith in Christ Jesus". Faith apprehends the privilege. I think the privilege is apprehended in Christ, but the privilege is made good in us by the Spirit -- "Because ye are sons, God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father". Then you can claim sonship, because you have entered into it.
Ques. I suppose it is the same with everything from forgiveness onward?
W.J. Will you say a word as to life and salvation in chapter 2?
F.E.R. I think the great point before the mind of the apostle was to insist that everything was in Christ Jesus. Timothy was to be strong in the grace which is in Christ Jesus. Faith was in Christ Jesus. Salvation was in Christ Jesus. Therefore it is most completely exclusive of all
that is in man. Man had to go completely, and now everything which can be spoken of as life morally is found in Christ Jesus.
J.B. If everything went to pieces down here, God has established life in Christ Jesus.
F.E.R. Quite so. The great point is that life abides, in spite of all that has come in. You may have all the architecture spoiled and defaced, but life abides. That is the great point -- life in Christ Jesus.
D.L.H. It enables you to steer your way out of the ruin?
Ques. You have been saying that God's thought for all men is in Christ, yet do not His purposes apply especially to His children?
F.E.R. The effect of the fall was that man became alienated from God, and if man was denied access to the tree of life, he was denied access to God, because you could not separate the thought of life from God. Man became completely detached from God. The effect of redemption was to place all men in the hand of God, so that God could work in man all the pleasure of His will, and the first result is that God puts Himself in communication with all men in Christ, Christ being the mercy-seat. What follows is that Christ is the expression of God's mind in regard of every man, but then when it comes to the work of God in man, it is another matter, because God will not engage to work in every man -- His sovereignty comes in. At the same time He has set forth a perfect expression in Christ of His thought in regard of every man.
J.B. I suppose the work in man is not the subject of testimony?
W.B. The necessity of God's work in man may become the subject of testimony?
F.E.R. Well, it is not exactly the subject of testimony. I am sure you will agree that the great subject of divine testimony is Christ.
W.B. Undoubtedly; but do you not think that there are times when God would have some of His servants insist on the new birth?
F.E.R. It is a little difficult to me, because the new birth involves the sovereignty of God. I think it is well to steer clear, in testimony to man, of truths which involve the sovereignty of God.
D.L.H. A man might turn round and say, 'I cannot do it'.
J.B. It might be well to say such things to people who are in an outward relationship with God, and trusting in forms and ordinances. Do you not think that in the confusion in which we are here, one has to say a great many things to a congregation, which you can hardly say are the subject of testimony?
F.E.R. Yes; because you are dealing with people who are on christian ground. In all our preaching we really take it into account. We do not preach like we would to heathen. The apostle had special grace and ability to speak to the heathen -- he was specially empowered in the testimony.
Ques. Why are these days called the last days (verse 1)?
Rem. But there will be other days after these days.
F.E.R. Yes, but not of christianity. We must not expect there to be any great resuscitation. It is a terrible indictment and has come fully in. There are two things presented in contrast -- a form of piety on the one hand and life in Christ Jesus on the other. The former can only be met by the latter, and you will find that the form of piety entangles people because a great many do not want much more than the form. Amongst us the question might fairly be raised as to what people are really after -- whether they are after a form of piety, or life in Christ Jesus because the latter means the complete rejection of all that is of man, of the flesh. You cannot talk about life in Christ Jesus and not exclude the flesh. They are put in contrast here. The apostle's doctrine, manner of life -- all that is morally life.
Ques. Are there a great many that have life in Christ Jesus who do not know anything about the end of man in the flesh?
F.E.R. I do not know at all. One is the necessity that hangs upon the other.
W.J. The washing of regeneration and the renewing go together.
F.E.R. I think so. The point is that christianity is vitality. It is not simply faith. There can be no vitality without faith, but christianity is vitality. People are put back to faith to a very large extent. The reformers were in that boat largely, but christianity is really vitality -- it is the life in Christ Jesus which has come in.
W.B. But you would say there was a little vitality with those in chapter 11 of Hebrews?
F.E.R. I think there was underneath; but the Lord says, "I am come that they might have life". Life and incorruptibility was not brought to light -- it was brought to light by the gospel. The fact is, we can speak of those men more than they could speak of themselves, with the light we now have. God put sanction to a very large extent even upon the flesh. It was not yet rejected. You get men acting in the flesh and after the flesh -- it was not yet set aside. All that has come out in Christ.
Ques. Could you say they had salvation?
W.J. You must have Paul's doctrine and manner of life.
F.E.R. Yes. Manner of life succeeds it, and not only so but "faith, longsuffering" (verse 10). I think the apostle's doctrine involved the setting aside of man because one very important point in Paul's doctrine is justification in Christ. "... by him all that believe are justified".
Ques. But resurrection is the ground of our justification is it not?
F.E.R. Yes, but it is not His resurrection, it is Himself. He was raised for our justification. You cannot have justification without attachment, so that every
justified person is attached to Christ. It is in the very fact of being attached to Christ you are justified -- otherwise you are lawless. There are really two sides. You are justified in Christ, or else you are lawless. There is no escape from lawlessness except by attachment to Christ.
K. When you say attachment to Christ, you do not mean affection for Him?
P.R.M. What is the force of righteousness being imputed?
F.E.R. That a man is accounted righteous.
P.R.M. Does that differ from what you are saying as to justification?
F.E.R. I do not think so. The whole universe of bliss will have its justification in the head of it. Israel will not be justified in itself and the nations will not be justified in themselves. It is a vast system, the whole of which is justified in the head; and that is so now. Though God dealt with men on the ground of flesh more or less, He had Christ before Him.
D.L.H. The "forbearance of God" indicates that?
F.E.R. I think so. God has set Him forth a mercy-seat through faith in His blood to declare His righteousness. The mercy-seat is the declaration of His righteousness.
B. You were speaking of eternal life as being dispensational?
F.E.R. I would only say it is always presented dispensationally in Matthew, Mark and Luke, but the difference between those and John's gospel is that John presents it morally, and gives to it a present application.
Ques. Would you say that Paul's "manner of life" was the life of Christ coming out in him?
F.E.R. I think so. Everything savoured of life. All the qualities which enable you to overcome down here savour of life, but where is the life? It is in Christ Jesus. A dead fish goes with the stream, and if we are to go against the current we must have life. It is in the energy
of life you overcome. There is no salvation apart from life and it is in the energy of life that you come into salvation.
Ques. You would say that Paul came into life in a very special way. "It pleased God to reveal his Son in me"?
Rem. At the best we are very slow.
F.E.R. I think so, but really we see all around us what is depicted in the early part of the chapter. How are we going to meet it? I think we have to see that we overcome in the energy of life in Christ Jesus. We ought to be marked by purpose and faith -- qualities which enable us to overcome. Everything is against us in a way. I wonder how many people are going to be drawn into the net in connection with what is going on this year? All these things come along as a test, but what are people after? Do they want the good of this world, or do they want salvation from it?
Ques. We are saved from it in life, you would say?
F.E.R. Exactly. As new-born babes desiring the sincere milk of the word that by it ye may grow up unto salvation. It accompanies life.
W.C. I have thought that manner of life is exemplified in the second chapter of Philippians, and purpose in the third.
F.E.R. I think so. The wonderful thing is that you overcome down here. It is the proof of the energy of life in Christ Jesus. Christ overcame. Be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. I am sure we do not overcome except in life.
Ques. In what sense had David salvation -- "Restore unto me the joy of Thy salvation"?
F.E.R. I do not know. I think his soul got under the power of evil, and he wanted to be delivered from it. No doubt God did a very great deal for the saints in the Old Testament in anticipation of what was coming, and in advance of where they really were in a way.
J.McK. I suppose there is no such thing as standing
still, we must overcome or be overcome.
F.E.R. I think it is either one or the other. Properly speaking, the position in which we stand in relation to christendom renders it perfectly certain that everyone ought to be an overcomer; because we have taken a very serious position in regard to the form of piety. We ought not to have one person among us who is not an overcomer. Everybody ought to be in the energy of life in Christ.
Ques. It is by faith we overcome?
F.E.R. No. I think it is in life.
Ques. What is the force of that scripture, "This is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith"?
F.E.R. I do not know. You will not overcome the world without faith -- faith in Christ Jesus -- "wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus". I have no doubt that as things are in the present time, faith is an essential element of life in Christ Jesus -- "The life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God". We have nothing for sight. Everything is for faith now. You get a very remarkable expression in this epistle -- the faith which is in Christ Jesus. It is characteristic of that state.
Titus 1 and 2
F.E.R. These epistles do not take us to heaven. They seem to present things on the line of God's ways down here. I think it is very important to see that there is a certain line of divine ways down here upon earth -- the heavenly calling and the being taken to heaven is another thing. Hence you get the appearing of the Lord brought out in this epistle and in 2 Timothy, and certain things are connected with it -- "awaiting the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ". In regard to christians too, you get the expression "that he might ... purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous for good works". So that it is evident they are viewed on the line of God's ways on earth.
D.L.H. I suppose the thought is that there should be a people morally suitable to God in this world?
F.E.R. I think so. Christianity fills up the interval -- the Jew being set aside for the time. The church in that sense comes in as "a peculiar people, zealous for good works". That would not have reference to heaven, but to a people here upon earth. It does not quite do to overlook that line. The thought of the heavenly calling might be taken up so exclusively as to shut out all else, but scripture presents another side, viewing christians as in the line of God's ways upon earth, and I have no doubt that it is in that connection that the thought of eternal life comes in.
Ques. Is it the house of God aspect of things that you refer to?
F.E.R. Well, it is not exactly that -- I think it is "a peculiar people".
B. Is that the idea in Matthew 21:43: "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof"?
D.L.H. Would you say a little more about eternal life coming out in that connection?
F.E.R. Eternal life evidently is the issue of God's ways upon earth and therefore you get faith, piety, and all that sort of thing coming in in the beginning of the epistle. It is all looking on to the end and issue of divine ways here upon earth. So in chapter 2 you get, "awaiting the blessed hope and appearing of the glory".
E.R. What is the blessed hope?
F.E.R. It is the blessed hope of the glory. We "rejoice in hope of the glory of God".
E.R. Not exactly what we speak of as the rapture?
F.E.R. No, that is not the thought.
F.E.R. No, it is the "blessed hope and appearing of the glory".
D.L.H. I suppose that refers to the establishment of God's rights here upon earth?
Ques. Why is God spoken of as the Saviour almost in every chapter?
F.E.R. Because he is the Saviour God to man. God has come out in the right of redemption and every liability has been discharged -- hence He has come out as a Saviour God to man.
H.C.A. Is not the thought that God comes forward to deliver man from all the pressure he was under?
F.E.R. I think salvation is brought to man. Righteousness and salvation have been brought to men in Christ, and are available to every man. It only remains for every man to acknowledge Christ.
H.C.A. God has taken that attitude of Saviour?
F.E.R. I think so but it is all consequent upon the introduction of Christ. Men have got a Head.
D.L.H. I think the importance of that is very great.
F.E.R. It is. It is the position, the situation, and if it is not understood, people do not understand anything.
E.R. In hope of eternal life -- is that the anticipation of the blessing?
F.E.R. I think it is the end and issue of divine ways here upon earth, and all that has come in in christianity is really in hope of that.
Ques. Would you say eternal life always stands in that connection?
D.L.H. Then that was God's thought for man before the world was?
F.E.R. Yes, just as God's thought for man was Christ, before ever the world. The embodiment of God's thought for man was Christ -- not the first, but the second Man. The natural came first, but the spiritual was God's thought.
D.L.H. It is a very great comfort to know that, when we see all the ruin and wreck and dishonour to God that has come in.
F.E.R. Mr. Darby said, 'Adam was the first man historically, but really Christ was the Man of God's counsel'. Therefore you get everything in Christ -- righteousness, salvation, eternal life, sonship.
J.McK. And the grace of God is as wide as the ruin?
J.McK. A grand gospel to preach.
F.E.R. Yes, it brings salvation to "all men" -- it is the character of it.
Ques. Then all the exercises that christians have to go through at the present day are in relation to the coming of that Man into the scene?
F.E.R. Yes; because it goes on to say, "In hope of eternal life ... manifested his word through preaching" (chapter 1, verses 2 and 3). So that you come into the light of it all now. It is not that you have come into the thing exactly -- that is not the idea, but it is that God has made manifest His counsel by preaching. It is all brought to light in the doctrine of the epistle. We get everything at the present time according to the verse of a very well-known hymn,
God has made manifest His word.
Ques. Is not a great deal of New Testament scripture written to indicate a course upon earth?
F.E.R. Exactly, I quite agree -- for a people whose inheritance is not earth, yet after all God is glorified in that people down here -- "A peculiar people, zealous for good works". I fancy that is the divine thought.
F.K. What is the force of the "promise"?
F.E.R. God engaged Himself to it. I think all our ways and conduct ought to be in the light of that in the detail of life, of what God is going to bring here upon earth.
F.K. Will eternal life be known here upon earth by and by?
F.E.R. Quite so -- when the ways of God come to an issue, and God brings out the result to His glory. We have the light of it now, and our ways ought to correspond to that light. I think the great need is to know how to fill up the interval here. The church is left here for that purpose -- to fill up the interval without having any portion here upon earth.
Ques. Would not the house of God aspect of the church come in in that way?
F.E.R. I think it would. Of course, everything depends in a kind of way upon the presence of the Spirit. There is no heavenly light apart from the Spirit.
Ques. Is there a different aspect in Titus from what you get in Timothy?
F.E.R. I think 2 Timothy takes up more the subjective side, and Titus the objective. In the former it is more life in Christ Jesus, but in the latter it is "in hope of eternal life". Life in Christ Jesus is more a subjective thought; on the other hand eternal life is really the end and issue of divine ways and therefore is an objective thought -- it is external to us in a kind of way.
P. How will eternal life affect the earth?
F.E.R. All the world will be brought under the
influence of Christ. The earth has been affected by three things: darkness, hatred and lawlessness. They are the three principles which have come in, and by which men have been affected. Well, I think the coming of the Lord, the bringing in of eternal life, brings in righteousness, love and light, and just as the world has been affected by darkness, hatred and lawlessness, so in the coming of the Lord, the earth will be affected by what He brings in.
D.L.H. Then eternal life is positive in that way, but the introduction of it really does set you free?
H.C.A. Are not saints viewed as already here in that association -- as in connection with what God is presently going to bring in?
F.E.R. I think John gives a present application to it and we come into it morally now; but what I have spoken of is what God is going to establish in a public way.
Ques. That is what you call the "issue"?
F.E.R. Yes. I think it is a very poor heart that cannot rejoice in the issue that God is going to bring about. It would be an awful dishonour to God to entertain such a thought as God being unable to bring about anything better than is now.
F.K. Here the earthly side of eternal life is more looked at?
F.E.R. There never was any heavenly side of it. It is heavenly influence on what is upon earth.
J.N. When do we get eternal life?
F.E.R. When you enter into it.
J.N. Would you say there is no eternal life in heaven?
F.E.R. I do not think you can speak in that way. It is an expression which has its application to earth. The first three New Testament writers, Matthew, Mark and Luke connect it with the coming age, but John gives
to it the present application. He ignores all past dispensations and brings in something new and heavenly, and in the light of what John brings in, eternal life comes into view. You must have the fulness of enjoyment in heaven, if it is entered into here. Now, ye abide in Christ, but then, instead of abiding in Christ we are going to reign with Christ. Eternal life is external. The joy of the christian's heart is not the idea of eternal life -- that is part of his state.
D.L.H. I suppose that is connected with the kingdom of God?
F.E.R. Well, it is an effect of it. I think there is a great deal of difference between abiding in Christ and reigning with Christ. "If we suffer, we shall also reign with Him", and reign in life. That is a different thing from abiding in Christ. What marks the present time is abiding in Christ, in a coming day we shall reign with Him -- that certainly is a difference. Then there is the responsibility to love one another. I think the church in a kind of way will give the impetus to the universe. God could set forth in the church the riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
P.R.N. What would be the thought of reigning in life by the one Jesus Christ?
F.E.R. Christ coming in brings life in. He comes in as life, but then our portion is to reign in life -- they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness, shall reign in life by the one Jesus Christ.
D.L.H. I suppose there would be no need for any word about abiding in Christ if there was not some other element to which we are liable to be subject?
F.E.R. No. We are in the kingdom now, and a very necessary thing we should be so -- otherwise we are lawless. But then, it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom -- we come under the influence of Christ now. It will be a different thing in heaven; the whole universe will come under the influence of the church. I think we fail to see the great place the church
has in regard to the world to come -- the nations walk "in the light of it, and bring their glory and honour into it".
D.L.R. At the present time the moral features of Christ should be expressed in the church?
F.E.R. That is a question of state. I quite admit that properly speaking it should be "not I but Christ liveth in me", but that is not a question of eternal life but of state.
Ques. If that state were there would it be a manifestation of life?
F.E.R. Yes. You are alive, but then you are dependent upon the sun, the atmosphere, and light -- you cannot live independent of conditions. All creatures live dependent upon conditions. The only One that is independent of conditions is God. He has life in Himself and so Christ has got life in Himself.
Ques. Then the life and conditions are inseparable?
F.E.R. Yes; you are alive, but then eternal life is dependent upon conditions.
D.L.H. "This is life eternal that they might know Thee, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom Thou has sent" -- you get the conditions there?
F.E.R. Yes. You grasp the conditions and in those conditions you expand. The conditions are healthy and wholesome and in them you grow, just as a child exists and grows in certain wholesome conditions.
Ques. When the christian's conditions are changed, whatever may be in glory -- you would not speak of that as eternal life?
F.E.R. I think the conditions of eternal life always abide -- they are eternal.
D.L.H. I suppose it is true that the great point in scripture is the world to come, whereas the eternal condition is not much spoken of?
F.E.R. Why do you call it 'eternal condition'? But what is beyond? How many verses speak of what is beyond? I have not found more than six.
F.K. Would you mind stating one or two of them?
F.E.R. There is an allusion to it in Isaiah, in 2 Peter and four verses about it in Revelation.
Ques. What about the first eight verses Revelation 21?
F.E.R. They give you the heavenly state.
Ques. That will be eternal, will it not?
F.E.R. No, not yet. He is giving you a description of the heavenly state, not of the eternal state -- then, as a matter of fact, I counted those verses in, and there are only about four.
Ques. Is it not alluded to in Corinthians?
F.E.R. God being "all in all"? Yes, that is seven verses. The appearing in glory Titus 2:13 is in connection with the age to come.
D.L.H. There must have been something a little amiss in the way things have been looked at, because most people have been excessively anxious to be able to clearly define the eternal state of things.
F.E.R. I very much doubt if we are competent to enter into it at all. God has been pleased to bring before us the complete unveiling of things, but at the same time I very much doubt our capability to enter into things beyond the world to come. On the other hand, the Spirit of God, the Lord said, "shall glorify me for He shall receive of mine and shall announce it to you". I think the Spirit of God really gives us understanding in regard of the world to come.
L.R. Does not that word give you an idea -- God being "all in all"?
F.E.R. Yes; it does give you an idea. You can accept the statement, but can hardly enter into it. I think you can enter into the world to come, Hebrews 12, but I very much doubt our capability for what is beyond.
Ques. What is the "kingdom not to be shaken" at the end of Hebrews 12?
F.E.R. That is what we receive -- an immovable kingdom; that is the kingdom of Christ.
D.L.H. It is present in a way.
R. What is the everlasting kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ?
F.E.R. Well, it is everlasting -- it is not set aside.
D.L.R. Then would you just say a word as to why the world to come is the prominent thing?
F.E.R. Because I think you have got a world, built up in the providence of God, which is Babylonish. It is all Babylonish -- the church is Babylonish and I want to see a world that is built up in the light of God. That is what the world to come is; and the light of God is a very different thing to what is built up in the providence of God. The harlot is professed to rule over the kings of the earth -- the heavenly city is going to rule. Influence which God brings in in Christ will be what God has brought in now. He will bring in light, an atmosphere, influence and rule.
H.C.A. The whole point is what you started with -- it is that we might fill up the interval.
F.E.R. Yes and so John's writings are all to the same point. He gives a present application to things and concerns himself very little about past dispensations, and brings in the living bread come down from heaven -- Christ, the heavenly Man, and shows Christ as Man in relation to the world.
Ques. What are the eternal things spoken of in 2 Corinthians 4?
F.E.R. The things which are unseen yet -- when God comes out. They are not set aside like temporal things. We ought to be in the second chapter of Titus -- living here "soberly, and justly, and piously in the present course of things awaiting the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ".
B. And that is the manifestation of eternal life now, is it not?
F.E.R. I would not quite say that.
F.E.R. Yes. The apostle apprehended the line and the end of divine ways and he was an apostle on that line.
H.C.A. He is looking rather at eternal life as the climax?
F.E.R. Yes, as a climax of divine ways -- "Sin has reigned in the power of death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life" (Romans 5:21) -- it is the issue but then I have no doubt whatever it is the glory of God. That is when God shines out publicly in effulgence-it is that which brings eternal life in.
Ques. Does John connect eternal life with dispensation?
F.E.R. Not exactly -- he brings in the present.
Rem. It is "the promise which He has promised us, life eternal".
F.E.R. But then he gives it its present application. John disregards dispensation, because he brings in what is from heaven. He brings Christ in not in connection with eternity, but in connection with man in the world down here.
F.E.R. Yes; and the life was the light of men. So too, "God so loved the world". If eternal life was the expression of God's love to the world, it is that eternal life is to be enjoyed in the world.
Rem. When love was made known, life was made known.
H.C.A. That would be a very wonderful way to fill up the interval.
F.E.R. I think so. It is in this epistle that you are to be living soberly, righteously and piously -- what you may call "piety".
Matthew 8:1 - 17
It is important to apprehend the distinctive place and character of each of the gospels. God has been pleased to give to us four, written by different persons; at first sight one might not discern the character and position of each, but it is very important to seek to do so, otherwise you do not really understand any one of them.
The gospel of John has a marked character of its own. I look upon it as that upon which, in a sense, all the gospels turn. It is different from every other gospel. You may, of course, find things in John which are recorded in the other gospels, but it has a character quite different from all, and might almost be called the backbone of all. An apprehension of the gospel of John greatly helps you to see the position of any other gospel. Christ is the one great figure in all the gospels, but in John we have, undoubtedly, Christ presented to us in the light of a divine Person, specially in relation to the Father. John is the one employed by God to present Christ to us in the distinctiveness of His Person and as declaring God. A great many things depend upon that -- benefits to man, and so on; but what characterises the gospel is the Son in relation to the Father. You will recall one expression that frequently occurs on the lips of Christ. He calls Himself the Sent One of the Father. He is the Sent One, not merely to confer benefits on man, but, as the first point of His coming, to do the will of Him that sent Him. "My meat is to do the will of him that sent me". Again, He says, "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work". It is the Son presented to us in relation to the Father. Specially in chapter 5 we see how Christ opens up the relations which subsisted between Himself and the Father. "The Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth". I have said that John is the backbone of all -- I mean in the way in which
Christ is presented to us in His Person as the Son, who had become a Man that He might come, sent of the Father.
In the other gospels we see Christ more in relation to men. It is one thing to apprehend Him in relation to the Father, but it is important also to apprehend Him in relation to men. The result of that is, that the history of man can be taken up afresh in Christ. That thought gives their peculiar character to the gospels of Matthew and Luke. In Luke the history of man is taken up in Christ, the Head, and in Matthew the history of Israel. You get a remarkable expression in the beginning of Matthew: "Out of Egypt have I called my son". That passage gives the idea of the history of Israel being taken up anew in Christ. In the providence of God it was ordered that His Son should go down into Egypt, not merely to escape the wickedness of Herod, but "that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet". Certain things happened in regard of Christ, as one may say in a natural way, but to suppose that He went down to Egypt only to escape the wickedness of Herod would be very low ground. It was that the history of Israel was taken up afresh in Him. The importance of it is, that it affords a fresh standing ground for Israel. The same holds good in speaking of Christ as the Head of every man, it affords a new standing-ground for man -- a ground on which he can be with God. Every one who recognises Christ as Head has a standing-ground with God. The Head is there for every one to accept. If I accept Him as Head, God cannot reject me, because the Head is divinely appointed. God would have "all men to be saved". The Mediator is the One by whom any man can approach God, and it is an impossibility that God should reject any man who accepts the Head. He is available to every man.
The coming of Christ as the true Israel, the true vine, gave to Israel a new standing-ground before God. You see in the parable of the vine that those who believed in Him were the branches. They had a new place in the
I make these remarks as preliminary; and there is one further remark I would offer. The history of Israel was taken up in Christ, but at the same time the advent of Christ was bound to bring about new and unexpected developments. I can shew you that from the scripture we have before us now. Christ being light from God was bound to test every man down here. He was the true light, and every man was tested by Him. It follows upon that that there must be new developments, as we see in the beginning of this chapter. The mass of the people who professed to be the people of God was rejected; but on the other hand there was faith found in the gentile who recognised Christ, and the gentile was brought into blessing in connection with the fathers. That is what I mean by a new and unexpected development; it is realised in the church. No Jew could have expected that the gentile would be joined with him in blessing. A Jew would not have entertained that thought for a moment, but it is that which has come to pass; and that development was according to the counsel of God, though it was brought to pass very much through the perversity of man. Christ came to His people, but they received Him not. The mass of them was perverse and lawless; they did not accept the light that came to them; but there was faith in the gentile which recognised Christ as God.
What I want to touch upon in the beginning of the chapter (verses 2 - 13) is the position of the Lord. I sum it up in one word: it was God here. And God acting as God. That is what we see in the earlier part of the passage. It was not the presentation of God morally in nature as in christians, but God presented to man in a substantive way -- God manifest in flesh -- none the less God. It is a point of importance to be held in the present day. There is an attempt abroad to fritter away everything in Scripture in bringing all to a footing where it can stand on a level with the ideas of man. But God is presented here in a Person, and in such a way that man can take account of Him; and now when He begins to
act He does not act according to the laws of nature. The Lord had to encounter what I should suppose is not according to the laws of nature. I do not think leprosy was according to the laws of nature nor death -- Christ had to meet something that was abnormal. There are many such things in the world, many things morally and physically abnormal. Undoubtedly physical results may follow moral departure, so one is not astonished to find things that are abnormal.
The leper is, I think, a picture of Israel, leprous in the eyes of God. I should call that abnormal, and so I should speak of death. All fall under its power, I own, but I do not for a moment believe death is the proper, normal condition of a man. Well, we get God here, Emmanuel, God with us, and taking account of things. What do you think His purpose was? It was to bring back man into consistency with moral laws; to bring back man from the lawlessness in which he was, under the influence of divinely appointed laws; to bring him back under the moral sway of God. It was that which Christ had in view in the leper and in the centurion, and, in fact, in all the miracles which He did. It was to bring man under the application of laws which have their seat in the love of God. All moral laws have their source in divine love. Moral laws are of God, and must have their seat in His nature.
Now just a word about the leper and the centurion. The presence of the Lord here was bound to test everything and to prove its character. If God came into His own creation it was likely enough to bring about a revolution. God did not come into a world that recognised Him, but into one which had departed from Him, and it was bound to bring about a moral revolution. In the leper and the centurion there was faith. The Lord says of the latter, "I have not found so great faith". But there was faith also in the leper. But the faith of the leper was accompanied with an "if". "If thou wilt". We do not see that in the centurion. He had not a doubt of the will of the Lord. There is no "if" on his part;
but on the part of the leper faith was there. The Lord answers both. It was a great mercy for the leper (and for many another too) that he had faith -- the Lord healed him for a testimony; but the faith of the centurion was the better. The Lord was equally ready to respond to the faith of both. But what was likely to be the result of that was that Jew and gentile must be found on one common ground. The leper was healed on the ground of the compassion of Christ. He could say, I had no merit, I was a leper, my condition was hopeless, and I have been healed simply as a question of divine compassion. Now the centurion comes forward, and he recognises that Christ is God; what can the leper say? Can he find fault with Christ or with the centurion if he was only an object of compassion himself? Can he complain of God having compassion on a poor gentile? It was impossible. His faith was less than that of the centurion; he had nothing to recommend him to Christ save that he was a subject for compassion. He appealed to Christ, and the Lord healed him and cleansed his leprosy; he could not complain if the gentile came forward and asked for and gained the Lord's compassion too.
People are amazed in the present day at wireless telegraphy. Here the word of the Lord touches one who is far off and he was healed. The servant was healed immediately.
My point is, that the presence of God here in Christ was bound to bring about a moral revolution, because the Jew was really only a subject for the compassion of God, and on the other hand, faith was found in the gentile. The leper was healed on account of need. It was his misery and leprosy, his appeal, that the Lord took account of. But then there was the same need in the gentile. There was faith there, and the Lord responded to his faith.
Now you can understand what the Lord says consequent on that (verses 10 - 12). You can see the kind of company you get in the kingdom. The Lord took account of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob because they were men of
faith, all of them. The Lord recognises their place there. Christ is supreme in the kingdom of heaven. He is the Sun of righteousness. As the sun is supreme in the physical heaven, so Christ is supreme in the kingdom of heaven. You get Christ, and the followers of Christ, and those coming from the east and west, from every direction, who will have their place there, while the children of the kingdom are left outside. They are spoken of in that way because they had been brought up in expectation of and relation to the kingdom. They were tested by the presence of God. The children of the kingdom would not have Him, but there were those who followed Christ, and the gentile was brought in with them.
Christ was the true Israel, and the true Israel is identified with the church. God took up the true Israel, beyond all doubt, in the remnant that was brought into the church. Who could impugn the faithfulness of God when God brought the remnant who were attached to Christ into heavenly blessing? Who could lay a charge against His fidelity? But on the other hand, no one could attach blame to God when He brought in the gentile too, because Israel as a mass had departed from God. That is why I spoke of a new development which the presence of Christ brought about. We have a foreshadowing of the change here. God is righteous, but He is also faithful. His people Israel are taken up in blessing -- those who were attached to Christ -- and the church is now the Israel of God. But when you consider the state of the people to whom Christ came, there was no lack of faithfulness on the part of God in bringing the gentile into association with His people. The apostle takes this up in Ephesians. You are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow-citizens with the saints and of the household of God (Ephesians 2:19, 20). That is what is foreshadowed here.
These two miracles are of the greatest interest to my mind, as shewing the true position of things in the mind of God: the Jew, a leper -- an object of compassion -- and
faith in the gentile. That is what Christ answered as God down here. God must be God, and the Jew has not a word to say against the fidelity of God, nor against the gentile.
Now if you look a little further on (verses 14 - 17), you get a reason given from Scripture why Christ did those things. It is blessed to see the comment of the Holy Spirit upon things. You get the comment of the Spirit here upon what Christ did. They were miracles of mercy without stint or limit; but what was the reason? "That it might be fulfilled ... Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses". Those miracles of mercy which the Lord performed were that that might be fulfilled. Miracles expressed what God was. The interest is not simply in the miracles; the healing of the people in that day would not be much benefit to you and to me, but if they bring out the heart of Christ, what Christ is and what God is, they are of very great value to us -- more so even than to those who were healed in that day. The Lord did not wait for their conversion. His miracles were without stint; but "himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses". That is the point I come to.
In the early part of the chapter we have Christ very distinctly as Emmanuel, but now I think we get Him on another side. I might venture to say on the sympathetic side. If I speak of the attitude of God to men, the thought is compassion. The leper and the centurion appealed to His compassion; He was divine and responded to it. But here it is not the response of Christ to an appeal, but a crowd of afflicted and oppressed people who came into His presence and He healed them. The point of instruction is to let us into the knowledge of Christ in another aspect, and that is in sympathy in regard to man. It is a very wonderful lesson to learn. Things would not be complete if we only had the conception of the Lord answering to man's appeal down here to deliver those who were oppressed. It gives another thought of Christ when we understand that He had sympathy. He had a sympathetic feeling in regard to what men were suffering
under, all that lay upon men. He was outside of it Himself; so far from being under it He was healing those who were under it; but we learn that Christ entered in mind into all these things by which men were affected. It has been most beautifully expressed: 'He suffered in His spirit what He took away by His power'. He could only bear them in His spirit.
I use the word sympathy advisedly. It gives us another view of Christ. We get something very touching in the ability of Christ, because He had become a real Man, to enter sympathetically into all that which pressed on man down here. I think it leads up to the priesthood of Christ.
It says in Hebrews 2"He himself hath suffered being tempted". I think we often place too literal a meaning upon Scripture words. Many things must have tried the Lord here. We are tempted by evil, which the Lord could not be. What tried the Lord must have been of another character. He did not have to resist temptation, as we do, but "He ... suffered being tempted". You may say that it must refer to the direct temptation of Satan which the Lord had to meet. Undoubtedly the Lord did suffer when Satan tempted Him; but I think the Lord suffered by everything He saw about Him. No doubt the unbelief of man tried Him. We read of His being angry because of their hardness of heart. We also find Jesus weeping at the grave of Lazarus. He was affected by the presence of death here and man's inability to meet it. It was no doubt to a large extent that which tried the Lord here. When He was tried He suffered. The working of that with regard to us is, that He can sympathise.
He was surrounded by all those sick people, and He healed them all. It has been said there are three classes of trial of which most people have experience more or less. There is bereavement, trial in circumstances, and in bodily affliction. The Lord knows what we labour under and can sympathise with us. He healed all these people, but He suffered in sympathy. This is of all moment to us. The Lord does not now take away our
sicknesses. When He comes in glory and power His people will not suffer by sickness; He will be the great Healer, the great Physician; but He does not now take away our sicknesses and weaknesses. But when He did take them away here on earth He suffered. Hence it is not difficult to understand how the sympathy of Christ can touch His people at the present time, and He is able to succour them that are tempted. People are sorely afflicted and tempted but they have the sympathy of Christ, and it is a proved sympathy.
I have touched on these things just to shew you what is true in the present moment. These things came out in the Lord's ministry here on earth, but they lead up to what is true in Christ at the present moment; we apprehend that God was manifest in the flesh; the true Israel is secured in the church, and that to my mind proves the fidelity of God; and the very experience through which the Lord was passing in the exercise of His power was proving His ability to sympathise with His people in their infirmities. Thus He is able to succour them that are tempted. He succours us so that we may not be overwhelmed by that to which we are exposed down here. It is a great thing to know what Christ was here on earth, it has not passed away. We have not exactly the same circumstances, but there can be no change in the Lord. All is recorded in order to present Christ before us and to lead us to the apprehension of what Christ is at the present time as giving effect to the purposes of God. The gentiles have been brought in, the children of the kingdom have been cast out. But we also get the capability of Christ to sympathise with His people.
Matthew 11:20 - 30; Matthew 12:1 - 50
We had before us last time how God's people had ever proved His fidelity. Whatever man might be, and man had ever proved unfaithful, in every circumstance God shewed His unfailing faithfulness. This is presented in a remarkable way in the gospel of Matthew. In spite of the condition of the people, Christ was "Immanuel", God with them. The prophecy of Isaiah was fulfilled in that way. That is what the presence of Jesus in the midst of Israel meant, and nothing short of that. You cannot understand the responsibility of the people and their guilt, unless you apprehend that the One among them was "Immanuel". It was the last test applied to them. In connection with that, God took care to make good the import of another prophetic name in Isaiah, namely, "Shear-jashub". He ordered that a remnant should return. But the presence of Immanuel tended in general to bring out the perverseness and lawlessness of the people. They said, "This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours", Mark 12:7. Nothing ever brought out the character of the people like the presence of God among them. This rejection of God was bound to bring out other developments. This came before us last time. Christ was there in compassion for the leper, but at the same time recognising the faith of the gentile. If God came in compassion to a leprous Israel, it was impossible for Him to ignore the faith which was found in the gentile. They should come from the east and west and sit down in the kingdom of heaven, and the children of the kingdom would be cast out. That was the result of the last great test which God was pleased to apply to His people. But the fidelity of God was proved in that, in spite of the perverseness of the people, He had taken care to maintain a remnant.
We shall, I think, find the same principles in the
passage I have read tonight, and in a more distinct way. There is more light here in regard to what was in the purpose of God. In the first instance the woes which the Lord pronounced shewed that everything was coming to a point. He pronounced woes on the cities wherein most of His mighty works were done. All had failed on that ground; the testimony of His mighty works had not produced repentance, but what comes out is, that God had a resource, and that the revelation of that resource furnished a ground for those who were in any way conscious of the condition of things in Israel. That is evident in the end of chapter 11. God brings out other things which were in His mind in contrast to the presentation of Christ to the responsibility of the people. These come out, and it is important to see how, in them, God proves His faithfulness in that He finds a standing-ground in them for any one who felt the condition of things amongst the people.
What follows upon that is, that God sets aside the public link between Himself and Israel; this comes out in the next chapter; and Christ becomes the hope of the gentiles. It is remarkable to see the Lord contemplating this. We are familiar now with the new thing which the Lord has brought in, consequent upon the lack of repentance on the part of Israel. That is the resource of God, christianity. I am speaking of christianity in the true power of it. The first to be brought into christianity was the remnant of Israel. They composed the church at first, and there was nothing else there. A little later on Cornelius was brought in. God provided a standing-ground for faith in that way. God's covenant with Israel has been set aside; all testimony to them specially has been sealed up, and Christ has become the hope of the gentiles. That is what is true at the present time. I suppose we are all looking on to the time when Christ will take up again, in the mercy of God, His relation to Israel. Then God will shew judgment to the gentiles. In the meantime, "in him shall the gentiles trust". That has come to pass. The apostle Paul quotes this in
the latter part of the epistle to the Romans as a justification of his mission and preaching to the gentiles.
I will ask you to look now at the end of chapter 11 (verses 20 - 30). The point that comes out first in this chapter is that the Lord pronounces woes on those cities wherein most of His mighty works were done, and the result is that they are, so to say, lost in the judgment-day. There is a comparison between Sidon and Tyre and those cities. That was the effect of the presentation of Christ to the responsibility of man; everything was ended in the judgment-day. There was nothing but lawlessness in the heart of man in regard of God. That is true now. You have only to look round to see the disposition there is to set aside every bond of God. It is not only that men set aside that which we believe to be the revelation of God, but they reject the thought of revelation entirely. There is a word abroad now, men call themselves agnostics. An agnostic regards revelation as an impossibility. The result of it is, that man must be left in the dark completely with regard to God. I merely speak of this as evidence of that which marks the mind of man. His mind is essentially lawless. It refuses the law of God. And yet when you look around in the physical universe you see everything governed by law, and men are ready enough to form rules and laws for themselves. If every one were lawless in this world, society could not go on. As men have congregated they have been obliged to make a system of laws to render life endurable. But with regard of God, man's mind is lawless. The effect in itself of the presentation of Christ's mighty works was to bring woes upon these cities.
But what is the effect as regards Christ Himself? It says, Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and He thanked God. Christ is spoken of in Scripture as the wisdom of God. I understand by that that He is God's resource. The occasion of Christ's rejoicing was the consciousness of the resource which God had. God had hid these things from the wise and prudent, and had revealed them unto babes.
Suppose the revelation of God accommodated itself to the wise and prudent; suppose it needed a highly cultivated intellect to apprehend the things of God, what a poor look out there would be for the poor and ignorant! It seems to me, the revelation of God must suit the meanest and the poorest, because with Him there is no respect of persons. It is in a way a sort of accident that a man attains great culture -- many people have not the opportunity -- God could not take account of an accident in that way. It must be that any revelation of God, to be really a revelation, should be such as to suit itself to the poorest and meanest. That is exactly what God has done. He has "hid these things from the wise and prudent, and revealed them unto babes". God could not put any sanction upon the cultivation of man.
Well, the resource of God is found in the expression, "All things are delivered unto me of my Father". The Lord brings to light what existed in the heart of the Father. There are resources in God, and those resources really depend upon the truth of the Godhead. We can understand these resources of God, because we know the truth of the Godhead. There was One in the unity of the Godhead who could come forth from God. It was in becoming a Man that He came forth from God, and it is to Him who came forth from God, and who was God, that all things could be delivered: "All things are delivered unto me of my Father". The Father had counsels and plans and thoughts in His heart, and all was delivered to the Son in order that He might give effect to all.
I believe that this involved two things, namely, that Christ should be a centre and point of gathering for man, and that He should accomplish redemption, that is, that the rights of God in regard of man should be maintained and vindicated. Man was under certain responsibilities and liabilities -- all that had to be maintained and vindicated in redemption; and the One in whom redemption was accomplished has become a centre and point of gathering on that ground for man. This was
true in the Son. The ground is that He maintained the rights of God. He has accomplished righteousness. "By the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life", Romans 5:18. That is as to the bearing of it. God had the right to redeem. Man was under liabilities, and God saw fit to exercise His right of redemption in the death of Christ. Righteousness is established, redemption accomplished, and Christ has become the centre and gathering-point for man. We get the thought of this in John 12"I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me".
The condition of man was brought out fully by the presence of Christ. The incarnation made things only darker as regards man; the mighty works made men more responsible; but there were resources in God. God has been presented in a man. Now He says, The Father has put all into My hands; I am going to accomplish everything. The terms were that He should taste death for everything, that the rights of redemption might be maintained in Him, and also that, on the ground of these rights, He might be a gathering-point for man.
Have you ever considered the point why Christ is the Sun of righteousness? The reason is plain: He is the righteous One who has accomplished righteousness. Redemption originated in grace, but the character of it is righteousness. Christ has maintained the rights of God, hence it is that He is the Sun of righteousness. He will arise with healing in His wings, but in the meantime He has become the gathering-point. That is implied, I think, in the expression here: "All things are delivered unto me of my Father".
Then another thing comes out. He is the Revealer of the Father. He came down here to give effect to the Father's will, and on this all the Father's counsels turned. But then, in the fact of His coming to accomplish the Father's counsels, the Father is revealed. It is a great point to apprehend what Christ is. We have come to a state of things pretty much analogous to that which existed in Israel.
The Lord makes an appeal: "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (verse 28). The Lord would draw to Himself those oppressed under the condition of things which existed in the religious world. There were those in that day who were heavy laden, and the Lord appeals to them that they should detach themselves from the system under which they were heavy laden and come to Him and He would give them rest. The same thing is true in the present day. There are many christians connected with the great ecclesiastical system who groan and are heavy laden; they cannot be entirely unconscious of the state of things -- infidelity all round, vital christianity swamped by the formalism around, the decrease of piety and the fear of God, everything going to the bad -- and the so-called ministers of christianity accommodating themselves to the mind of man. What strikes one at the present day is the disposition of the ministers to find a footing on the ground of man's mental activity. They are using the pulpits to undermine the faith of the saints. The true outlet is to detach yourself from what is worn out. What is the good of remaining in it and groaning? It is a poor thing to continue groaning, though many relieve their consciences by it. If you are in a state of things which keeps you groaning, it would be wise to consider whether you are right to stay in it. I do not think God means His people to be always dissatisfied and weary. The relief is in coming to Christ; there is nothing for you but Christ. "Come unto me". People sometimes find it difficult to come to Christ. It seems so unsubstantial; and yet it is the only thing to do. Have done with what keeps you weary and heavy laden! Get to Christ! But take care that in seeking this you do not get to another system! There is the danger! People leave these great systems sometimes and attach themselves to some other kind of system. That is what you have to be careful of. It is a great thing really to come to Jesus. Then you will never go to another system. Such a thing as to come to Christ is possible -- we are attached to Him -- and Christ is
I look upon myself as a unit. I do not say but what I am in company with other units, but I try to keep my mind clear from the thought of connection with any kind of system down here. Having come to Jesus, I seek to walk as a unit in His light.
Groaning is not rest. If I see a person groaning or depressed, I should say he has not come to Jesus. If he had, He would certainly have given him rest. It was the provision made in God's goodness for a people heavy laden in a condition of things that was worn out. The point for faith was to detach itself from Israel and all connected with it, and to come to Jesus. He was the blessed centre of God's universe and the gathering-point of all in whom God had wrought. I ask each one, Can you stand alone with Jesus? People want a system as a prop to lean upon, but by and by the prop fails them. Another class of people depends on meetings, and meetings are an artificial prop! Others depend upon the letter of Scripture. I believe that too may be an artificial prop. Everything will fail you but Jesus. He will never fail you if your soul has really come in contact with Him. He is the Father's resource, who came to accomplish all the Father's will. He has become the resource to us, and says, "Come unto me ... I will give you rest". Rest is a great thing down here. A person burdened has not rest. A person depressed has not rest. A person excited has not rest, nor a person elated. I believe there is nothing more valuable here on earth than rest -- nothing is more indispensable to people even in natural things as rest. Then the Lord adds, "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me ... and ye shall find rest unto your souls". That is coming under the law of Christ. "Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ". The Lord Jesus put Himself in the place of lowly service down here, and we have to take His yoke upon us in the service of love (verse 30). All this comes out from the simple statement, but is pregnant with the deepest meaning, "All things are delivered unto me of my Father".
Christ was independent of man; He was the blessed centre and point of gathering, and the appeal is to come unto Him.
I have a strong conviction that Christ is making the same kind of appeal to people in the present day. We get a wonderful word in the address to the church of Laodicea: "I stand at the door, and knock". It applies to the last phase in the church's history. Think of Jesus, the Root and Offspring of David, the bright and morning Star, saying, "I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me". It is a great thing for Christ to manifest Himself to you. Do you think it impossible? I believe in the reality of it; and of His coming to sup with you and you with Him.
It is a great thing to have your soul brought by the Spirit into contact with Jesus, so that you are free from the necessity of any human organisation. You are dependent then on nothing but Christ. God would not have you dependent on anything else. If you yourself know the support of Christ you will be a support to other people, but not otherwise.
I desire to add just a word on chapter 12: 14 - 21. The sabbath was the sign of the covenant between God and the people. The Lord allowed certain things to shew that the covenant was about to be broken. God put mercy above the sabbath. The Lord seals up the testimony among His disciples. He charged them that they should not make Him known. He does not discontinue His service, but He finishes the testimony. His voice was not to be heard in the street -- the street of Israel -- this was a solemn thing for Israel. But Christ could retire into the truth that He was God's beloved Servant. The Son of the Father, but also God's beloved Servant. "Behold my servant, whom I uphold". God's Spirit was upon Him. It is a wonderful change to think of Christ coming to shew judgment to the gentile. The Jew had not, but Christ will, Now comes the point which is peculiar to this moment. "In him shall the gentiles
trust". The Lord is coming into the world to establish judgment. Judgment is to return to righteousness. He is coming to swallow up death in victory. Satan's power is to be broken. Christ will send forth judgment, not to destruction, but to victory, and in His name shall the gentiles trust. Christ is the Head of every man and the hope of the gentiles at this moment, He is both the root and offspring of David, and the bright and morning Star. He says, "Let him that is athirst come". That is what arises out of the rejection of the mighty works of Christ. There were resources with God. It was impossible for God to be baffled.
I wonder what Christ is to us at the present time. I am afraid of people being content in a rightly ordered system with well-ordered meetings, and living on that, with a decrease at the same time of personal piety. I plead for piety. I can say for myself, in measure, that my soul feels independent of everything save Christ. I do not know that I am dependent upon any order or organisation. The point is that Christ is enough. Have you come to Him? If you come to Him He will give you rest. Coming to Him is very real -- He is there to come to, and if there be the movement in your soul to come to Him, He will make Himself very precious to you. Christ will be enough for you even if you should be bereft of everything down here.
Nothing will be able to stand its ground against the power of the enemy in the present day except Christ. Nothing will meet the character of things we have to meet except the reality of life in Christ.
Matthew 13:34 - 52
I think there can be no doubt that one of the peculiar marks of the gospel of Matthew is the bringing together of things "new and old", I do not know that you get even the expression elsewhere. The Lord uses it at the close of the passage I read: "Every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old". Both are found in the kingdom of heaven. It is one of the results of God's ways in the bringing in of Christ.
The church, which is new, has come in by Christ. And yet God has been in no sense unfaithful to what has been. You get the two brought together; the "old" is substantiated and confirmed, and yet God brings in "new" things.
It is this bringing together of things new and old in a divine way that marks Scripture. I have no fear for all that man may do to Scripture, because all through it you have a living, powerful voice speaking in the same moral tones from beginning to end. One voice makes itself heard in strong moral accents. You cannot find a parallel to it anywhere else. It is not the voice of man speaking, or even man's conduct, that is the prominent idea; though there is a moral apprehension of things that are happening here; but it is one living voice making itself heard. And that is not going to be easily set aside. The voice of God is not to be set aside by the puny attacks of man! "The voice of the Lord breaketh the cedars; yea, the Lord breaketh the cedars of Lebanon".
Another reason why Scripture could not be set aside is, that things which are present and come under our observation are intimately connected with things that have been; we have, for instance, one peculiar people in all parts of the world that has a long previous history.
The present condition of the Jew so links itself with the past that it remains as a standing witness of God's past ways. And yet, though the Jew be set aside for the time being, as Scripture predicted, God has never been and never will be unfaithful to His promises. He will remember the Jew. That has been my point in the previous lectures: the fidelity of God to the Jew, and yet His bringing in other developments.
Have you thought what the epistle to the Romans means? I believe it to be the fundamental epistle. It is essential for every one to be established in first principles, and they are God's righteousness and God's fidelity. If you look abroad in the world, you see what calls in question the righteousness of God and His fidelity -- you see the rights of God contested on every hand by the spirit of lawlessness prevailing. And you see another thing: the chosen people of God scattered all over the earth in contempt and reproach, not enjoying the promises made to the fathers; they are aliens, trodden down of the gentiles; all that seems to call in question the faithfulness of God. The epistle to the Romans is the answer to all that. The beginning of the epistle is the unfolding of the righteousness of God in Christ; and the latter part the unfolding of the faithfulness of God in Christ. So the christian has in Christ the answer to all here that seems to call God in question. I cannot see anything more important than that our hearts should be established in the knowledge of the righteousness and faithfulness of God. Lawlessness may prevail for a moment, but it is not going to set aside the righteousness of God; nor, on the other hand, can anything interfere with His fidelity. No failure on the part of man can alter the faithfulness of God.
You may not see all this at first. The ways of God take a certain time to work out as men judge, but in the end God will vindicate Himself -- He has done it already. God has proved His fidelity to His people. In the introduction of the church, God took care to make provision for the believing remnant of the Jews. In the
beginning the church was entirely composed of such. The gentile did not appear in the first instance. It was a further unfolding on the part of God when Cornelius and the gentiles were brought in.
I take up these parables now, for they are remarkable in this way, that you get things old and things new. You get the bringing together of things new and old, the new has not set aside the old, and the old does not interfere with the new. My main thought is that in the kingdom of heaven you get the church -- that was new -- and yet you get the kingdom of the Son of man -- that was old.
The Jew was very restricted in his thoughts. He had carnal ideas with regard to the Messiah and the glory He would confer on the people nationally; he ought to have apprehended another thought, that is, the kingdom of the Son of man. The Jew will never be restored except in connection with that kingdom. It is a world-wide dominion. When God establishes it in a public way the Jew will get his own position nationally in Christ, and not till then. In the kingdom of heaven you get the idea of the kingdom of the Son of man, which is not a new thought; but we also have what is new, in the parable of the treasure hid in the field and that of the pearl of great price. These are not made manifest in any previous communications of God; they are new. It is to that the Lord alludes, I think, in speaking of things "new and old". We can understand it all now, because we have some intelligence with regard to the pearl and the treasure. In some way, too, the net was new; you do not get the idea in the Old Testament of casting the net into the sea and putting the good fish into vessels.
Before we go on to this we will just look at the exposition that the Lord gives of the parable of the tares (verses 36 - 43). I call your attention first to verses 24 - 30.
The point to my mind in this parable is, that you get the thought of the kingdom of the Son of man. It is a very important thought. The kingdom of the Son of man is not existing in any manifest form at the present moment, but there is a form in which it does exist. For
the moment it takes the form of the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of the Son of man has reference to God's dispensations upon earth, hence you get twice over the thought of "the completion of the age" (verses 39, 40) That refers to the dealings of God on earth. A change will take place in God's dealings. The Son of man will purge out of His kingdom all things that offend and them which do iniquity. That is remarkable, as it puts together the age to come and the present age. "Things that offend" are finding their place at this time in the kingdom of the Son of man; they will be gathered out, and the kingdom will be taken up in power and glory. You get an allusion to this in Hebrews 2"The world to come, whereof we speak".
The kingdom of the Son of man connects itself, too, with what has been. The mind of the Jew overlooked the kingdom of the Son of man. That was the idea prophetically conveyed, it was not new at all.
The thought of it comes out in Psalm 8. In Psalm 2 we get the King in Zion and authority over the nations, but in Psalm 8 we see the universal dominion of the Son of man. "Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands". And in the comment on that in 1 Corinthians 15, we find there is nothing that is not put under him. There is no exception save in regard of Him who put all things under Him. It is the universal dominion of the Son of man based upon redemption.
In Hebrews 2 we find Jesus "made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death ... that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man". I take it, that is the character of the kingdom, a universal dominion, characterised by grace because founded on redemption. It is by the grace of God Christ had to taste death for every thing. This is not a new thought. A Jew ought to have known of the universal dominion of the Son of man. A moment came when the Lord prohibits the publication of the testimony that He was the Christ. He speaks of Himself as the Son of man who should suffer and rise; but that was not new. The thought of the
Son of man stood out distinctly in the Old Testament. The promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be fulfilled in the kingdom of the Son of man. It is an old thought. It appears plainly in Psalm 8, and is the principle of the world to come, the universal dominion of the Son of man.
In Hebrews 1 you get the establishment in the Son of the throne of God -- a most important point -- and in chapter 2 the kingdom of the Son of man. The world that had been was put under angels, but the world to come is put under the Son of man, because, I take it, it is founded on redemption. That is not new.
It is striking that directly we get the kingdom of the Son of man we have in view the enemy, the devil. It reminds one of Revelation 12. Directly the man-child is born, the dragon is there ready to swallow him up. The enemy, the devil, is against Christ, against the universal dominion of the Son of man. The world-wide authority of the beast comes in antagonism to the Son of man and His kingdom. The wicked one is ever opposed to the Son of man.
We are told that "the field is the world". What I understand by the field is not the earth but the world, which, in regard to the people in it, has been bought by Christ. It all belongs to Christ. In the parable it speaks of the Son of man sowing good seed in His field. From that point of view all men belong to Christ, whatever they may think. He has acquired a right over all, and is Head of every man. It is a point of great moment to apprehend. If people reject Christ, they reject One who has divinely-given rights in regard to them. The distinction between those who are christians and those who are not, is that the christian recognises the right of Christ, and one who is not a christian does not; but the right of Christ is the same over both. The field is His.
He sowed good seed in His field. The good seed we are told are the children of the kingdom (verse 38). I call attention to a verse in chapter 8 of this gospel (verses 11, 12). The children of the kingdom there are spoken of
as cast out. Here in this parable the good seed are the children of the kingdom. The thought in the seed is different from what we find in the parable of the sower; there the seed produces children, so to speak; here it is the good seed are the children. In chapter 8 the children of the kingdom are cast out. As far as I understand it, the children of the kingdom, or sons of the kingdom, are those who are recognised by the King. The Jew had expectations in regard to the kingdom. They stood on that ground in the sight of God. They were tested by Christ when He came, but did not answer to the test and were rejected. It could not be imagined that God would set up the kingdom without regard to the moral condition of those who were to be in it. Man may do such a thing, but you cannot conceive that could be the case with God. He must have regard to the moral condition of those in His kingdom. The Scripture spoke of the kingdom, and the Jew had the Scripture and was recognised by the Scripture; but when tested by Christ there was no moral capacity on their part to enter into it. They were not subject to the moral sway of God and did not answer to the test of Christ. They did not receive the light and were cast out.
But now in this parable "the children of the kingdom" appear, but as planted in the field. It is not the restoration of the Jew that is promised for the moment. The children of the kingdom are planted in the world. They have to be of God's planting. It is seed-sowing here; and indeed, if there are the children of the kingdom in the world it is the effect of the sowing of God. You may be sure the field would never of itself produce the children of the kingdom; they are not going to arise from man in the flesh, that is not the divine idea; if they are found in the field they are of divine sowing. They are a seed of God, not a natural seed.
You get that seed brought to light on the day of Pentecost, and in possession of the Holy Spirit -- they were the divine seed. They did not apprehend it at that moment, for God had not publicly set aside the Jew andTHE WITNESS WHICH GOD HAS SET HERE TO HIS SON
THE MOMENT YOU ARE IN CHRIST YOU ARE UNDER RULE
THE NECESSITY FOR VITALITY WHEN DECAY SETS IN
CHRISTIANITY IN ITS TRUE CHARACTER
APOSTLESHIP AND PRIESTHOOD OF CHRIST
THE PURGATION OF THE CONSCIENCE FOR THE SERVICE OF GOD
FRUIT-BEARING
THE SANCTUARY, THE HOUSE OF GOD AND THE HOLIEST
OUR COMMANDING INTEREST
THE ANTICIPATION OF WHAT IS FINAL
THE LAND OF PROMISE
THE REALITY OF LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS
CHRISTIANS AS IN THE LINE OF GOD'S WAYS UPON EARTH
'That gives us now as heavenly light,
What soon shall be our part'. (Hymn 64)OLD THINGS AND NEW
CHRIST IN HEALING POWER AND IN SYMPATHY
CHRIST THE RESOURCE FOR GOD AND FOR MAN
THINGS NEW AND OLD SECURED IN CHRIST