Hebrews 1:1 - 14; Hebrews 2:9, 10

G.R.C. In looking into this epistle we may consider, in the five readings, the greatness of the Person of Christ, the greatness of His priesthood, the greatness of His high priestly work in the offering of Himself, and then the greatness of the Christian approach and service.

In considering these things we shall also be impressed with the greatness of God. The expression "the greatness" is used in verse three, "set himself down on the right hand of the greatness on high". Again in chapter 8: 1 - 2, it says, "We have such a one high priest who has sat down on the right hand of the throne of the greatness in the heavens; minister of the holy places", showing that the service of God as established in Christianity proceeds in the presence of the greatness, the Minister of the holy places having sat down there. We need to accustom ourselves to what is great; and indeed to become more accustomed to what is spoken of as "the greatness".

In chapter 1 the greatness of the Son is stressed. It is a stabilizing thing for our souls to apprehend the greatness of Christ. If understood, this would free us from the vauntings of men. We are living in days when the pride of man is very much in evidence, especially in his achievements. But man and his glory fade into complete insignificance in the light of the greatness of the Son. In chapter 2: 9 He is called Jesus. Think of how great Jesus is! In chapter 1, amongst other things, it says, "by whom also he made the

worlds", and then, "having made by himself the purification of sins"; and at the end of the chapter it says, "And, thou in the beginning, Lord, hast founded the earth, and works of thy hands are the heavens. They shall perish, but thou continuest still; and they all shall grow old as a garment, and as a covering shalt thou roll them up, and they shall be changed; but thou art the same". What an answer to the vauntings and the pride of man! The chapter thus begins with God; and it then goes on to describe the glorious Person of the Son, who is said to be the One by whom God made the worlds; the One who, by Himself, made purification for sins; and the One who is shortly going to roll up as a covering the things which His hands have made, and they shall be changed. So that three great operations are brought forward; the operation of creation; the operation of purification; and finally the rolling up and changing of the present order of things -- one view, I suppose, of the bringing in of the new heavens and the new earth. In the light of such operations, in which the creature can have no part, man's pride is put into its proper place in our judgment; and we become worshippers, not only of God, but of the Lord Jesus.

Rem. The Hebrews needed this and we need it today.

G.R.C. We need it very much in order that we may be preserved as true Hebrews, that is as 'passers-through', not influenced by man's world nor by man's pride. Abraham, the Hebrew, is the father of us all, and this epistle would help us to be just passers-through. We seek not here a continuing city; we seek the one to come. We are not detained by occupation with men's achievements. They do not disturb us,

nor, in one way, concern us. The things which men discover about creation magnify the One we know as Creator, but to unregenerate man they bolster up his pride. But we are passers-through; we do not belong to this world; we are in the world but not of it; our anchor is within the veil, "which we have as anchor of the soul, both secure and firm, and entering into that within the veil where Jesus is entered as forerunner for us", Hebrews 6:9.

J.P. Would you distinguish more clearly between what is great and the greatness?

A.N.W. Is the idea of "the greatness" incomparable? There is a comparison as to the Name; it is more excellent; but the greatness on high seems to be incomparable.

G.R.C. I am sure that is right. It is superlative. As regards what is great, you have, as to the Lord, the great high priest in chapter 4, a great priest over the house of God in chapter 10, and then the great shepherd of the sheep in chapter 13. These are offices which He occupies. But we have to understand that the Lord is greater than any office He holds. We delight in His offices; but the services He renders are to help us to discern the greatness of the Person who holds them. He is greater than any position He could occupy. "Thou art greater, glorious Saviour, than the glory thou hast won". He has His own part in the greatness on high. He is said to have "set himself down on the right hand of the greatness", that is, He is the great Operator there. There is the greatness: we cannot define it. It is one of the indefinable expressions of scripture, introduced to produce a state of worship -- prostration. "The greatness": who can describe what it means? Yet surely the Spirit would

give an ever increasing impression of it in our souls. Deity is in mind. In Colossians we have "the fulness", but in Hebrews "the greatness". And we are called to serve in the presence of the greatness. Our service will take on the quality it should have in the measure in which we, by the Spirit, have some apprehension of the greatness. But, as this chapter indicates, the One who has sat down at the right hand of the greatness has His own part in the greatness: Who He is, it plainly shows. As at the right hand, in manhood, He is the great Operator in relation to the greatness; everything is done through Him.

C.A.M. Your opening remarks would give great scope to the word "spoken". God has seen fit to express Himself in this most glorious way.

G.R.C. In verse 1 we are brought face to face with God. "God having spoken in many parts and in many ways formerly to the fathers in the prophets, at the end of these days has spoken to us in the person of the Son". That is a marvellous thing -- God has spoken in Son. If God has spoken in Son, His must be the last word. In the beginning, He spoke and it was done. It was the same Person through whom He spoke. But how much greater this speaking! There was majesty in the speaking at the outset -- He spoke and it was done; He commanded and it stood fast. But now God has spoken in Son. The One by whom He made the worlds has become incarnate.

Rem. It is wonderful that the Lord has come into manhood in order that He might speak, and be tangible and approachable.

G.R.C. The incarnation is a marvellous thing. It is referred to in this chapter, "Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee". And in John 1:14, "And

the Word became flesh". It is the most amazing thing, and essential if God was to be declared.

Ques. Does His being established heir of all things -- verse 2 -- refer to Christ in manhood?

G.R.C. The first thing that is said as to Him is, "whom he has established heir of all things". It is in manhood that He is the Heir.

J.R.H. Would you link up "heir of all things" with His operation in creation? I was thinking of the way it is put, "whom he has established heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds". Is it the all things that He has made to which He becomes Heir?

G.R.C. Yes. In Colossians it says, "all things have been created by him and for him", Colossians 1:16. He was to come into manhood, and as the Heir take up everything He had made.

J.B. God has spoken formerly in many parts and in many ways, but now He has spoken to us -- I should suppose the 'us' means Christians -- in Son. Is there a difference between the knowledge of God as now revealed in Son, and what was known through the former speakings? Is God in Christianity known differently as being revealed in the Son?

G.R.C. There is a great difference, and all hinges on the incarnation. God had no beginning, as we know; but the economy of God, as resulting from the incarnation, had a beginning. But it has no end. When John speaks of that which is from the beginning, he refers to the beginning of the manifestation of God in the Person of the Son. It is not exactly our subject here, but the incarnation has brought out the Father's affections; the Fatherhood of God has become known; the Person of the Father is known. It was not until there was an adequate Object in

manhood, the Word become flesh, that the Father's affections could come into display. Scripture says, "The Father loves the Son", John 3:35; then the Lord says, "As the Father has loved me, I also have loved you", John 15:9; and, in verse 12, "This is my commandment, that ye love one another, as I have loved you". The basis of the whole matter is the Father's love for the Son.

J.B. I have often thought that "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ", Ephesians 1:3, is the highest known relationship that we enjoy; because it is by the Spirit of His Son in our hearts, and that is greater than what is known in creation.

G.R.C. The relationships we have been brought into exceed any that have gone before or will come after. It says in this chapter, "and again, I will be to him for father, and he shall be to me for son". Think of that! Think of what it meant for the Father to have such an Object! How it drew out and brought into display the Father's affections! And those affections remain; and the economy, i.e., the revelation of God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit -- Matthew 28:19, remains; and we are brought into it.

Ques. Does that not bring out the greatness of His manhood? We should see that this is our link -- His manhood.

G.R.C. Exactly.

J.H. Would you see with Abraham the yearnings of God, anticipatively, of the present dispensation in which there is now an Object for the Father's love to express itself upon?

G.R.C. I think so. Genesis begins with God -- "In the beginning God" -- and in type, develops His eternal thoughts as to God and man; but, as the book

proceeds, the idea of Father and Son is brought out typically in Abraham and Isaac, because the economy and its relationships are essential if God is to secure His initial thoughts as to man -- God and man.

Ques. Would the angel's word to Mary in Luke 1:32, "He shall be great" indicate that there was something new in the way of greatness about to appear?

G.R.C. Quite so. "He shall be great, and shall be called Son of the Highest". It is very instructive to see the way in which titles of God conveying attributes of deity and majesty are carried through into the New Testament. In Luke the title "Highest" (i.e., Most High) is carried through. We do not lose any of these titles; we carry them through.

H.O.E. It has been said that the link between what is absolute and what is relative is love.

G.R.C. That is good, because in the manifestation of God as in the economy wonderful affections are brought into display -- the Father's love for the Son, the Son's love for the Father, and the Spirit's love for the Father and the Son. It all turns us back on what God is in His nature. God is love.

Rem. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and to the ages to come", Hebrews 13:8. We are reminded of the unchangeable character of the Person of the Son.

G.R.C. We need always to keep in mind that the Lord Jesus has changed His circumstances and condition, but that in His Person He is unchanged and unchangeable. This chapter brings this out, "thou art the Same, and thy years shall not fail", Hebrews 1:12. It is in manhood that He is being addressed because it speaks of years. Before the Lord Jesus came into

manhood He had no experience, in that sense, of years. But now He knows what years mean. He is the One who came into time, but who does not belong to time.

Rem. One is impressed with the love of God as shown in our Lord Jesus Christ -- the depth of it; and it is the same today.

G.R.C. Quite so, and so Paul prays to the Father in Ephesians 3, "that he may give you according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man; that the Christ may dwell". The Father would strengthen us in our affections to embrace the One Who is the Centre of His affections. And He loves Him so much that, according to the riches of His glory, He is bringing about a universe adequate for Christ as the Centre; and all the families named of the Father are but to form a setting adequate for Christ as the Centre. Christ is the great Object of His affection. And the prayer goes on, "in order that ye may be fully able to apprehend with all the saints what (is) the breadth and length and depth and height". The Father would have us to understand every dimension. Every dimension speaks of divine love.

J.S. Would you say we need to appreciate the way the moral side has been met, more in relation to Christ's greatness than to our need?

G.R.C. Exactly. I think we have to take account of the fact that God acts by Himself and for Himself. That is the force of the word here, "having made by himself". The note indicates that it is by and for Himself. That is to say, before we can begin to take up service acceptably we have to learn to take account of the work of God in which no creature hand has had

any part. The idea of sabbath is that God rests in what He has done by Himself and for Himself, with no creature hand assisting. Genesis 1 records His own actions; no angel assisted, no creature hand assisted. He did all by Himself and for Himself, and then rested from all His work. Similarly redemption is a work done by Himself and for Himself, and another great rest is brought in -- God's rest in Christ and His finished work. And when His work in new creation is finished He will say, "It is done". His eternal rest will commence. We have to learn to take account of God's work in creation, in redemption, and in new creation; to see that all is done by Himself and for Himself, the creature having no part in it; and to rest our souls in that. To be acceptable, our service should flow from an apprehension of what God has done by, and for, Himself.

Rem. And what God has done by Himself and for Himself is in accord with His own thought, as we sometimes sing "O God, the thought was Thine".

G.R.C. Exactly.

A.N.W. To the "by" and "for" we may add "of". Is the Trinity involved, "Of him, and through him, and for him are all things", Romans 11:36?

G.R.C. Literally those prepositions mean 'out of Him', and 'through Him', and 'unto Him' are all things.

Ques. Is the expression "the greatness" a title of God or a feature of Deity?

G.R.C. I had not thought of "the greatness" as a title. I do not know how to describe it. It is a kind of indescribable expression to give our minds an impression of Deity. I suppose these different expressions do bear on one another; but this expression,

"the greatness" requires contemplation. How incomparable and superlative it is! And the wonderful thing is that according to chapter 8 the service of the sanctuary proceeds in the presence of the greatness.

F.W. In the end of verse 12 we have "but thou art the Same". Has that some connection with the greatness?

G.R.C. "The Same" is a divine title.

F.W. Would the greatness of Christ set us free from all forms which are just a shadow of the things to come?

G.R.C. It would indeed. And in that connection, "But Christ being come high priest of the good things to come, by the better and more perfect tabernacle not made with hand", Hebrews 9:11, speaks of what God has done by and for Himself.

Rem. We have the expressions Mighty God, and Father of the age, in relation to time.

G.R.C. "Father of the age" refers to the world to come, the place Christ has in that great day, "the habitable world which is to come, of which we speak", as it says in chapter 2: 5.

Ques. Would the greatness be seen in verse 3, "the effulgence of his glory and the expression of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power".

G.R.C. It says in the note as to "effulgence", 'That which fully presents the glory that is in something else'. I think "the greatness" is indescribable -- unspeakable; it is Deity really. But then the Son is the effulgence of God's glory and the expression of His substance; so there is the outshining which, in measure, the creature can take account of; but the greatness lies behind it all.

Rem. In John's gospel we have frequent reference to, "Art thou greater?", and I wondered if John would have us formed in an appreciation of the greatness of Christ.

G.R.C. "Art thou greater than our father Abraham?" brings out the great truth. He says, "Before Abraham was, I am", John 8:58. It is a truth which would run alongside what we have in this chapter.

A.N.W. The last psalm says, "Praise him according to the abundance of his greatness".

A.B.P. We could know nothing of this greatness except it had been manifested in Christ, whether as Creator, or as the One who has made purification for sin. Have you in mind that the demonstration of the greatness of the Person helps us to worship God as God?

G.R.C. Quite so. What has been manifested gives the Spirit scope to give us an impression of "the greatness". While we enjoy, according to our measure, the effulgence of God's glory and the expression of His substance -- we cannot compass these things, but we enjoy them according to our measure -- the Spirit would maintain in our souls the sense of what is behind all -- the greatness. It brings about prostration of soul. It is a thing we should know more about -- prostration.

Rem. "God is greatly to be feared in the council of the saints", Psalm 89:7.

G.R.C. That refers to God in the midst of His people here. This epistle goes on to say that we have come to God, Judge of all; another great statement; and we prove Him in that way in the council of His saints. But behind all that is "the greatness", that

which the creature cannot penetrate; but the expression is here in scripture to affect us, and the Spirit would so affect us that our worship would end in prostration.

Rem. So we can see what the work of God has accomplished, but behind that work is what is un- knowable and unseeable.

G.R.C. Exactly.

A.N.W. What can be said? How can we express ourselves in words in the spirit of prostration?

G.R.C. The Revelation is a great book of prostration. At the end of chapter 4, "the twenty four elders shall fall before him that sits upon the throne, and do homage to him that lives to the ages of ages; and shall cast their crowns before the throne", verse 10: that is prostration in the presence of the greatness. Then the remarkable thing is in the next chapter where the Lamb comes into view. One of the elders says, "Behold, the lion which is of the tribe of Judah, the root of David"; that is another allusion, not only to the manhood, but to the deity, of Christ. Then in verse 8, "And when it took the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb", that is prostration, "having each a harp and golden bowls full of incenses, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sing a new song". All this shows that prostration of soul may include an ascription of praise and worship. They fell before the Lamb.

Rem. Do you think the Lord is aiming at this with the woman in John 4, "God is a spirit, and they who worship him must worship him in spirit and truth". The very word 'prostration' is used, is it not?

G.R.C. It is the same word that is used of the

elders, they do homage. There are two words for worship in the New Testament: one involving public priestly service, and the other homage or prostration of heart and soul. And the two things should go together. It is essential that God should be served in a public way worthy of Himself. There should be the public expression in song and thanksgiving of that which is due to Him. Before angels and men He should be suitably addressed. But it would be of little value without prostration of soul.

F.K.C. The woman had to have the moral question solved, and yet it did not hinder this matter from coming out. The Lord Himself says, "The hour is coming and now is".

G.R.C. It would not hinder if we understood the verse "having made by himself the purification of sins, set himself down". There is majesty in this. Think of a Man, speaking with all reverence, who could do things by and for Himself, and then set Himself down. It was no presumption, for He Himself has part in the greatness. So He set Himself down at the right hand of the greatness on high -- the great Operator.

Ques. Why is it purification here and not redemption?

G.R.C. I have often wondered why the word 'purification' is used. In chapter 3 and 4 of John purification is in mind, although it is the water aspect rather than the blood. There was a discussion going on as to purification in John 3, and the Lord's dealings with the woman in chapter 4 show the working out of it. The gift of the Holy Spirit is to bring about practical purification in view of worship. So it says here, "having made by himself the purification of

sins". The Lord does it having in view a system permeated by the Holy Spirit, an anointed system. Purification of sins must take place from the judicial standpoint before a system can exist where the Spirit is all pervading. It is only in such a system that God is worshipped as He should be.

G.A.S. The expression is used as to purification of all things.

G.R.C. In Colossians you have the idea of reconciling, "and by him to reconcile all things to itself, having made peace by the blood of his cross", Colossians 1:20. And as Hebrews proceeds, things are brought into this matter, as in chapter 9: 22, "and almost all things are purified with blood according to the law, and without blood-shedding there is no remission". There is a remarkable combination in that chapter because verses 19 and 20 refer to Exodus 24, the application of the blood to the book and the people; but verse 21 goes on to the day of atonement. "And the tabernacle too and all the vessels of service he sprinkled in like manner with blood; and almost all things are purified with blood according to the law". And he goes on to show that the heavenly things, (literally, the heavenlies), have to be purified by the blood of Christ. Earlier in verse 14 he says, "how much rather shall the blood of the Christ... purify your conscience from dead works to worship the living God".

A.N.W. Is there not a peculiar lustre in regard of the making purification of sins as against the glory of upholding all things by the word of His power? He does not make purification by the word of His power; it is by Himself, and the great glory reflects back on Him, as the note says.

G.R.C. It is very affecting to think of all that it meant to Him.

A.B.P. Is purification properly in view of approach?

G.R.C. I think all is in view of God being served. The purification of sins here is of the widest scope. The whole system is purified and so becomes an anointed system in which God dwells in the midst of fragrant praise.

A.B.P. And therefore it leads up possibly to Hebrews 10, "Having therefore, brethren, boldness for entering into the holy of holies".

G.R.C. Yes, exactly.

Ques. Does the mention of the Lamb in Revelation carry this thought of being purified in relation to worship?

G.R.C. Yes, "To him who loves us, and has washed us from our sins in his blood". It is very affecting to consider the distinction our brother has referred to, between upholding all things by the word of His power and the work He accomplished where power alone was not adequate. It meant, as this epistle develops, the sacrifice of Himself. Marvellous thing that He should go that way! The One who felt perfectly about sin, because He is Himself God, as Man took up the whole question sacrificially. It is a stupendous thing to contemplate! The One who offered Himself as the Victim was no less in His eternal Being than the Father and the Spirit. And it was by the eternal Spirit that He did it. It is a great matter for contemplation -- the way Jesus went, and what He bore. There is much in scripture about it: Leviticus 16, Colossians 1, Hebrews 9, 2 Corinthians 5, and other passages, develop different aspects of the great work of atonement or reconciliation, and we

ought to acquaint ourselves with them all in a spirit of worship.

Rem. The purification being made, the evidence of it will always remain; we will always be affected by the sacrificial work of the Lord Jesus, and the shedding of His blood.

G.R.C. I think upholding all things by the word of His power is a comprehensive idea. He brought things into being -- by Him God made the worlds. But it is linked on with this idea of purification. It says, "who being the effulgence of his glory and the expression of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, having made by himself the purification of sins, set himself down on the right hand of the greatness on high". He is upholding the physical universe in view of all that is coming in, purification having been effected; and He is also upholding, we may say, the spiritual universe, the true tabernacle which the Lord has pitched and not man. He is upholding all things in view of the day when the present heavens and earth will be rolled up as a covering, and be changed, and the eternal state brought in. It is a magnificent view of Christ!

J.G.H. Would our appreciation of the greatness of Christ, as presented in these various features, be the measure of our worship? Would it be proportionate to our apprehension of the Person?

G.R.C. Exactly. I believe we will never make much progress in our souls until we learn the habit of prostration before Christ. We can understand the idea of prostration before God; but the elders in Revelation (they refer to ourselves of course) fall down before the Lamb. We need to know more about that. We might be so affected in our private devotions

as to prostrate ourselves physically. But that is not the main point, because it might be nothing more than an outward form. It is prostration of soul. One has often been affected in thinking of the Lord's prostration. It says He "fell upon his face" (Matthew 26:39), and "he fell upon the earth" in Gethsemane (Mark 14:35).

A.N.W. I am glad to hear you refer to that. You have referred to Revelation 5 several times, but the last touch is "And the four living creatures said, Amen; and the elders fell down and did homage". Say a word as to that.

G.R.C. What would you say yourself?

A.N.W. I only thought of something further still, possibly unexpressed.

G.R.C. That is good; for, as you say, in verses 8 and 9 they fall down, but also express something in song. But I suppose at the end of the chapter, 'Voice by voice in silence fails'. The worship becomes inexpressible, you mean?

A.N.W. Yes, I thought that.

J.G.H. We sometimes think that the greatest depth of feeling with us is in relation to help received in some personal crisis, or a crisis in the testimony, but the greatest feeling comes in when prostrated in worship.

G.R.C. I am sure that is right. If we want to be ready for crises which may arise, we need to be constitutionally worshippers; and habituated to prostration before the Lord Jesus, as well as before God, in our private devotions. How blessed it would be if we knew more of this!

Rem. It is said of the man in John 9, as soon as the Lord mentions the title Son of God, that he did

Him homage. That is prostration in the true sense.

G.R.C. Yes, it is the same word as that used in Revelation. It is the idea of prostration of soul.

Ques. Paul fell on the earth when the Lord appeared to him. Would that be in line with this thought of prostration?

G.R.C. Quite so. Paul was prostrated when the Lord appeared to him. He began his career that way. It is a good beginning to fall on the earth before the Lord Jesus. But then think of the Lord Jesus falling upon the earth, not in the way in which we are speaking, but because of what was immediately before Him, the question of purification of sins! He was about to pour out His soul unto death, and it so affected His soul that it says, "And, going forward a little, he fell upon the earth" (Mark 14:35); and according to Matthew, "he fell upon his face" (Matthew 26:39). If He, as the Leader of our salvation, has gone to that extent, where do we stand as to prostration before Him? How worthy He is of the unreserved homage of our hearts!

GREATNESS (2) -- THE PRIESTHOOD OF CHRIST

Hebrews 4:14; Hebrews 5:5, 10; Hebrews 7:1, 10, 14 - 17, 22 - 28; Hebrews 8:1 - 2

G.R.C. The greatness of Christ's priesthood appears in chapter 4: 14. Chapter 5 speaks of the days of His flesh as qualifying Him for the office, even going so far as to say that He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. Chapter 7 presents Melchisedec, "King of Salem, priest of the most high God", showing among other things how kingship and priesthood are ever linked in the Divine mind; "first being interpreted King of righteousness, and then also King of Salem, which is King of peace". So we have a glorious presentation of Christ there -- the king of righteousness, the king of peace and the priest of the most high God. And the chapter closes with the greatness of the saints. Not that we can attach any importance to ourselves on that account; it is the condescending gentleness of God which has made us great. After bringing out the greatness of the Priest, it says, "For such a high priest became us", Hebrews 7:26. This section of the book closes in the first two verses of chapter 8 with a summary of what we have; and, we may say, what God has. "We have such a one high priest", and God has the "minister of the holy places".

I think the passing through of chapter 4: 14 would link with the High Priest going through into the holy of holies. We are told in this epistle that the tabernacle of old was a figurative representation of the things in the heavens; and the high priest of old passed through

into the holy of holies. In chapter 7 it says that He has gone higher than the heavens, higher than the creature can go; but I believe that first allusion is to stress that He passed through. And in passing through, He has made the way through for us into the holy of holies.

A.B.P. Does chapter 9 suggest what there is in the spheres He has passed through? We have reference to the golden pot with the manna, Aaron's rod that sprouted and the tables of the covenant.

G.R.C. It includes the days of His flesh, and all that He passed through and carried through. And all of that is involved in the fact that He has passed through the heavens. He has entered in, into the very presence of God, as it is put at the end of chapter 6, "entering into that within the veil, where Jesus is entered as forerunner for us, become for ever a high priest according to the order of Melchisedec". So we have such a great High Priest, One who has passed through.

A.N.W. However far we go in with Him, we shall ever recognise that He can go farther. He says in John 6:62, "If then ye see the Son of man ascending up where he was before?" We shall ever have that to engage us, shall we not?

G.R.C. I am sure we shall. In fact, if we truly enter the holiest, we get an impression, as nowhere else, of Who the Person is. In the holiest, if we are truly in it, we are no longer occupied with His offices, but with Himself. His priesthood and other offices which attach to Him are glorious, and they are to help us. He has passed through, and He would help us to take advantage of the new and living way which He has dedicated for us. But once we are within the veil we begin to get impressions of Who the Person is;

and, as you say, if that is so, we realise at once that we cannot limit Him at all. In every way He is beyond us in His Person; and yet, in His manhood, He graciously takes us alongside Himself, as He says, "with me where I am".

J.R.H. Please say something as to the Son of God, "Jesus, the Son of God", chapter 4: 14.

G.R.C. That is important as bearing on what we are saying as to our moving in. He has passed through to make a way through for us. That is the force of "Having therefore a great high priest". He is our Representative. He has gone through on our account. "Having therefore a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God". This is not stressing so much the greatness of His Person, nor that He has gone into the uncreated sphere into which we cannot enter. It is stressing rather that He has gone into a place which we can enter; we are associated with the Son of God.

F.W. You are suggesting that He passed through in His own right because of His Person.

G.R.C. That would be true, but passing through as the great high priest has involved the offering of Himself. If we think of the type, in passing through He would pass the altar of burnt offering. He is the Altar, and He is also the Victim upon it. He has passed through in such a manner as to make a way through for us: He has entered in as forerunner for us, chapter 6: 20. So that the passing through involves all that He did in opening up the way for men.

A.B.P. Would you link 2 Corinthians 3 with this -- changed "from glory to glory"? Is that like the way in?

G.R.C. Looking on the glory of the Lord is

another way of speaking of the holiest. Hebrews, while it exhorts us to enter the holiest, does not tell us what we do when we are there. We have to go to other scriptures for that. But there are passages in this epistle, for example chapter 1: 3, which help us as to what we behold there; the scripture you quote is another which helps us much. In the beginning of chapter 3 we have "the Apostle and High Priest of our confession", and again in chapter 10: 23, "Let us hold fast the confession of the hope".

Ques. Has the passing through a triumphant character?

G.R.C. It has. He passes through triumphantly into the presence of God, as our great High Priest. This question of our confession is a great matter.

J.S. Does this give the present moment its wondrous character? We are not yet associated with Christ as coming out, but we are associated with the One who has gone in.

G.R.C. That is very good. The Christian confession would involve that. It is not only what we profess with our lips; but our whole manner of life is to bear testimony to the fact that our place is within the veil where Christ is. That is the confession.

Well, this chapter tells us of the High Priest and what He has done. Before we can function as priests properly, we have to go in. We come out from the holiest to function as priests. It is not our functioning as priests which takes us in. We may have the idea that we have to function first at the burnt offering altar, and then at the incense altar, and at last we shall get into the holiest. That is not the truth at all. The truth of the matter is that we go in because we have such an high priest. We go in on the basis of

what He is, and of what He has done. He has made the way, and our way is to go straight into the holiest: then we come out to serve.

J.R.H. When you speak of what He has done, you are referring to the fact that by His own blood He has entered into the holy of holies?

G.R.C. Yes, we may look at that in another reading. One's thought was that in this reading we should contemplate the greatness of His priesthood; and then perhaps, in our next reading, the greatness of the high priestly work-the offering of Himself.

A.N.W. The High Priest we have heard of, but the great High Priest is something very distinctive.

G.R.C. Even the expression high priest is not much used in the Old Testament. Here, as you say, the word "great" is added -- "a great high priest".

J.B. Is He great in the eye of God because of the work He has done at Calvary?

G.R.C. It says in chapter 5: 1, "For every high priest taken from amongst men is established for men in things relating to God". And then it says in verse 4, "And no one takes the honour to himself but as called by God, even as Aaron also". It is a beautiful view of Christ, as "taken from amongst men". He grew up before Jehovah as "a root out of dry ground", Isaiah 53:2. And God called Him into this office.

Ques. Does the thought of our confession involve that God has been revealed, and that we are in the light of God as revealed? Christianity involves the revelation of God.

G.R.C. It does. It involves God having spoken in Son, and all that that means, "the only-begotten

Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him", John 1:18. And it involves our calling in relation to that revelation.

Ques. Does the greatness of His Person give character to every office He takes on, so that He must be a great High Priest?

G.R.C. Quite so. He adorns the office, and makes it great.

A.B.P. The verses read in chapter 5 bring in the thought of experience, and of history. He who had said to him "Thou art my Son, I have today begotten thee", is the One who says, "Thou art a priest for ever"; there is a passage of time between those two points. One relates to the incarnation, and the other to His installation as Priest; but in between has come His perfecting in manhood. Is that what you have in mind?

G.R.C. Quite so. It is the One who marked Him out as His Son, "Thou art my Son, I have today begotten thee", who says, "Thou art priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedec". But then in order to be qualified, speaking with reverence, for that office, it was necessary that He should pass through certain experiences. And it is very affecting, when we think of the greatness of His Person, to contemplate Him passing through these experiences in the days of His flesh. Think of the 102nd Psalm where He says, "My God, take me not away in the midst of my days!" Then we have the answer, prophetically in Psalm 102:24 - 27 and again in Hebrews 1:10 - 12, "And, thou in the beginning, Lord, hast founded the earth, and works of thy hands are the heavens. They shall perish, but thou continuest still; and they all shall grow old as a garment, and

as a covering shalt thou roll them up, and they shall be changed; but thou art the Same, and thy years shall not fail". Think of the experience the Lord Jesus passed through when He cried, "My God, take me not away in the midst of my days!" It links with verses 7 - 9 of our chapter -- "Who in the days of his flesh, having offered up both supplications and entreaties to him who was able to save him out of death, with strong crying and tears -- and having been heard because of his piety -- though he were Son, he learned obedience from the things which he suffered; and having been perfected". That was the way He was perfected for the priestly office.

C.D. The contemplation of that calls out the adoration of our hearts!

G.R.C. Then think of Him in the garden of Gethsemane falling upon the earth, falling upon His face! Think of the strong crying and tears!

C.D. The contemplation of this is the kind of food we need for our souls to build us up constitutionally.

G.R.C. It would inculcate in us the principle of obedience; we should love obedience. He is the author of eternal salvation to those who obey Him. Is it not easy to obey a Person like this? Is it not easy to obey One whose right it ever was to command -- who commanded and it stood fast at the beginning -- and yet who for our sakes became flesh, and, in the days of His flesh, learned? He went through experiences which He had never been through before. It had never been His to obey. But He came into a condition in which He was committed to obey, "Lo, I come (in the roll of the book it is written of me) to do, O God, thy will", Hebrews 10:7. And

obedience meant for Him a price that it has meant for no one else. What obedience cost Him! And how He felt the cost! And yet He never turned aside. He learned obedience in the fullest way in which it could be learned.

F.K.C. He said, "Abba, Father, all things are possible to thee; take away this cup from me; but not what I will, but what thou wilt" Mark 14:36.

G.R.C. The perfection of His sonship is stressed there, in that He says, "Abba, Father".

P.W. "I do always the things that are pleasing to him" (John 8:29). It is the word from His lips as to His Father.

G.R.C. He was truly Son. In Matthew 26:39, it says, "And going forward a little he fell upon his face". An extraordinary statement! "he fell upon his face, praying and saying, My Father, if it be possible let this cup pass from me". Think of what obedience cost the Lord! "becoming obedient even unto death, and that the death of the cross", Philippians 2:8. Think of a Divine Person, the One by whom the worlds were made, learning obedience in the most costly way which could be conceived. So that the many sons whom God is bringing to glory love obedience. It is a delight to obey a Person like that! He is the Author of eternal salvation to those who obey Him.

Rem. So that He gave the Father fresh cause to love Him, as moving in this way.

G.R.C. He did. What a delight for the Father's heart! "On this account the Father loves me", John 10:17.

Ques. And do we not want to come in on that line, to give the Father cause for delight in us, because

we obey, as in some measure following in His steps?

G.R.C. We do, I am sure.

W.T.L. Would you say it was a voluntary matter on the part of the Lord Jesus to become obedient unto death?

G.R.C. It was a voluntary matter prior to incarnation. He says, "Sacrifices and offerings and burnt-offerings and sacrifices for sin thou willedst not ... then he said, Lo, I come to do thy will", Hebrews 10:8 - 9. He does not say, Lo, I am sent; but Lo, I come to do thy will. "Lo, I come (in the roll of the book it is written of me) to do, O God, thy will", Hebrews 10:7. That was a committal -- to use your word, a voluntary committal. No one could have imposed it on Him. He says, Lo, I come to do thy will. But having come, there could be no drawing back. He was committed to obedience. So, as having come, He was the sent One.

W.T.L. Philippians 2 would have the same bearing that you suggest, would it not? Before the incarnation He had that mind.

G.R.C. Well, I am not sure that that is referring to His mind prior to incarnation. It says, "For let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus; who, subsisting in the form of God". "Subsisting in the form of God" implies what we are saying, that no one could have imposed it on Him. But it does not say He left the form of God; it just says, "who subsisting in the form of God, did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God; but emptied himself, taking a bondman's form, taking his place in the likeness of men; and having been found in figure as a man, humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death", Philippians 2:6 - 8. It is

beautiful, it is all put there as what He did Himself; and I think that is what you have in mind. But then the passage ends that He became obedient, because that was the force of His coming in a bondman's form. It was to be obedient, "becoming obedient even unto death, and that the death of the cross". In manhood here the mind was seen in Him, because in John's gospel He makes remarks which show that He thought it not an object of rapine to be on equality with God. His enemies realised that His remarks implied that He was equal with God. And it was not an object of rapine for Him to assert equality with His Father, because He was and is equal. He says: "Before Abraham was, I am", John 8:58. He did not hesitate to say these things, because it was not presumption; and yet He humbled Himself and pursued the way of obedience.

H.O.W. In Psalm 2:7 we have, "I will declare the decree: Jehovah hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; I this day have begotten thee". Does it mean that He had the right to go in as Son of God?

G.R.C. You mean that personally He could have gone in without going into death? But then He would never have been our great High Priest; He would never have qualified, speaking with all reverence, for that great office.

A.B.P. Death seems to be the supreme test, does it not? In Philippians it is, "even unto death and that the death of the cross". Psalm 102 which you quote says, "My God, take me not away in the midst of my days!"; while this chapter 5 of Hebrews says, "supplications and entreaties to him who was able to save him out of death". That seems to be the setting, that the greatest test of all was death.

G.R.C. It was; so that the things that He suffered include death. They include the atoning sufferings -- the supreme test -- and apart from the atoning sufferings He could never have been our great High Priest; He could never have been the Author of eternal salvation. There were other sufferings, sufferings which enable Him to sympathise. They all enter into His being perfected. He knows what every trial is which we go through; He can sympathise with us. But there is that which He went into which we could never go into, and that is death in all that death meant to Him, bearing the judgment and wrath of God.

A.N.W. So while He is the Centre of the excellent glory on the mount, the subject of conversation is His departure which He should accomplish at Jerusalem.

G.R.C. Quite so. That was essential, if He were to be perfected. "He learned obedience from the things which he suffered; and having been perfected", Hebrews 5:8 - 9.

Ques. Psalm 102 is called, 'A Prayer of the afflicted, when he is overwhelmed, and poureth out his complaint before Jehovah', and contains expressions like, "I am become like the pelican of the wilderness, I am as an owl in desolate places". Is that typical of the manhood of Jesus and what He went through?

G.R.C. Those experiences enable Him to sympathise and succour those who are in the same path. We were speaking of the word 'Hebrew' this morning -- those who are passers-through. And the Lord has felt what it is to be a stranger and a sojourner, and like a sparrow on the housetop and a pelican in the wilderness; and He sympathises with

and supports those who are true Hebrews, true passers-through, recognising that they have no continuing city here.

Ques. Peter uses the expression, "but gave himself over into the hands of him who judges righteously", 1 Peter 2:23. Does that not show how willing Jesus was to go to any length to fulfil God's will?

G.R.C. Yes, there again He becomes the Model for us.

Ques. Could we link it with Psalm 16:10, "For thou wilt not leave my soul in Sheol, neither wilt thou allow thy Holy One to see corruption"? This is not from death, but out of death.

G.R.C. You mean that He was not seeking to avoid death; but the entreaties were to Him that was able to save Him out of death, prepared, as He was, to go the whole way? So that although the Lord says, "My Father, if it be possible let this cup pass from me"; He immediately says, "but not as I will, but as thou wilt", Matthew 26:39. He immediately accepts the cup, having faced all the consequences in the presence of His Father, with this in mind that God was able to save Him out of death. He would go the whole way into death in all that death meant. And we must remember that what He went into no creature could have gone into. The lost will never taste what Christ tasted; it is impossible. They have not the sensibilities. What Christ endured in the suffering of atonement was His alone. So the Spirit of God would help us as to depth. The more we are formed in divine sensibilities, the more we can get some sense of what the depth was. We were speaking this morning of breadth and length and depth and

height. We need all four dimensions: the Spirit of God would help us. The Lord Jesus has gone higher than the heavens: and, in passing through, He has taken us to the greatest height to which the creature can go. But in order to take us there, He has gone to the lowest depth, depth to which a creature could never go.

A.B.P. You have spoken of the depth and the height, and I am wondering if the breadth and length would be the extent to which He has filled out the will of God in manhood.

G.R.C. And in result, of course, it will fill a universe. "Lo, I come... to do, O God, thy will". God indicated even to Abraham that His will was connected with the filling of heaven and earth with Abraham's seed; and that is enlarged in the New Testament -- the filling of heaven and earth with families named of the Father. There is the breadth and the length, but there is also the depth and height.

T.L.S. Intimacy seems to enter into both the thought of the Son and the thought of the Priest -- the word "Thou".

G.R.C. These remarks are touching, for we are let into conversation between the Persons of the Godhead. "Thou art my Son: this day have I begotten thee", Hebrews 1:5, and "Thou art a priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedec", Hebrews 5:6, on one side; and then on the other side the words the Lord Jesus used as coming into the world, "Wherefore coming into the world he says", Hebrews 10:5. It is worthwhile everyone reading J.N.D.'s remarks in the Synopsis on that passage. "Coming into the world he says ... Lo, I come"; his remarks are very affecting, bearing upon what our brother has already

mentioned as to the Lord coming of His own volition. No one could have imposed it upon Him. "Lo, I come"! But having come to do God's will, He was committed to it. From thenceforward His only path could be unquestioning obedience.

A.B.P. It is interesting to see in Hebrews 5:10, how "addressed by God" is 'saluted of', according to the footnote, suggesting the feelings which enter into the Father addressing the Son as having gone into heaven.

G.R.C. Psalm 110 is very beautiful, isn't it? Just as in Psalm 102 we get the Divine answer to the One who says, "take me not away in the midst of my days!", so in Psalm 110, having passed through this qualifying experience in the days of His flesh, He is saluted as High Priest according to the order of Melchisedec. "The Lord" in verse 5 is a divine title -- Adonai. "The Lord at thy right hand will smite through kings in the day of his anger". The One who learned obedience by the things that He suffered, and, who having been perfected, is now installed as High Priest according to the order of Melchisedec, is none other than Adonai. The title 'Adonai' implies lordship in the absolute right of Deity; not that He was made Lord, but that He is Lord because of who He is.

J.G.H. Would it be right to take account of His experiences in the days of His flesh as being entirely commensurate with His inherent qualifications, which the truth of His Person involves?

G.R.C. It is because of who He is in His Person that He could go through such experiences. It is a most affecting thing to think of such an One coming into a condition where He could have experiences which would not be possible in conditions of Deity.

None but He could have gone through them. And so, as having gone through them, and having been installed in His high priestly office, He is called by His divine title, Adonai, in Psalm 110:5. It would link with Ephesians 4, that He has "ascended up above all the heavens"; that is really Adonai. Psalm 68 is quoted in that chapter, "Having ascended up on high, he has led captivity captive, and has given gifts to men", Ephesians 4:8, and in Psalm 68 the One who ascended on high was Adonai -- see verse 8; that is why it could be said that He has ascended up above all heavens.

J.G.H. Could we say then that the truth of His Person not only gives character to the office, but also to the experiences as Man which qualify Him for the office?

G.R.C. Well, none but He could have gone through such a path of obedience. It is not only that none but He could sustain the work of atonement, but none but He could have taken it up in the sense of having a perfect apprehension and abhorrence of sin as God Himself has, because He is God.

J.A.P. Many of us would like help on the subject of the High Priest. Why does the writer turn from the Aaronic priesthood to the Melchisedec?

G.R.C. I think it is a question of the order of the priesthood. He is Priest in the power of an indissoluble life, which involves the truth of His Person. That is what we come to in chapter 7, Melchisedec as a type, as it says, "without father, without mother, without genealogy; having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but assimilated to the Son of God, abides a priest continually". It maintains the title "Son of God". It does not say 'the Son', because it

has in mind His priesthood and His associating us with Himself within the veil; but yet it establishes the fact that the One who thus associates us with Himself, under the title Son of God, is nevertheless a Person of the Godhead; that he is "without father, without mother, without genealogy; having neither beginning of days nor end of life". Although in manhood He is the Son of God, and thus our High Priest, yet in His Person He is God. And that is the qualification for the order of priesthood that is in mind. The Aaronic order was continually changing, because those who filled it out were subject to death. But the great distinction is that He holds the priesthood in the power of an indissoluble life, because He is a Person of the Godhead.

J.A.P. Is that where John comes in, "In him was life", John 1:4? Is that the life you are referring to?

G.R.C. "In him was life", would refer to the life manifested in Him here in manhood. "In him was life, and the life was the light of men". That is, there was a Man here living wholly in relation to God, living indeed as an only begotten with a father, and that was light for men, as indicating what was in God's mind for men, although He was unique in it. But I think the indissoluble life here refers to the truth of His Person. The marvellous thing is that our High Priest, though truly Man, is a Person of the Godhead. And He therefore holds the priesthood unchangeable.

C.A.M. Would it be right to say that when we are thinking of Divine Persons essentially we are outside of anything as to history and sequence? When it comes to Aaronic priesthood, and the functioning of it, we come back to happenings in the region of time. I was thinking of the greatness of His Person.

Indissoluble life and so forth is a view we are likely to bring into history, whereas it really belongs to an order outside history. The truth of His Person is something greater than happening and history and sequence.

J.S. So that in the Old Testament the priesthood was not great enough to support the system of things that God had in mind in the way of blessing for His people, but now all that is changed.

G.R.C. That is right. So while the function of the priesthood is still Aaronic -- that is, we have a priest who can sympathise and succour and support us as we enter in -- yet the order of priesthood is not Aaronic. The order of the priesthood is that of Melchisedec. The wonderful thing is that our High Priest, with all the tender feelings of a Man, having learned obedience by the things which He suffered and having been perfected, is, in His Person, no less than God. He lives in the power of an indissoluble life. So we should look for a moment at Melchisedec, and see how kingship shines, as well as priesthood, in Him. I think that is what is in mind in Psalm 110, "Jehovah said unto my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I put thine enemies as footstool of thy feet". And then, "Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in holy splendour". As we apprehend Him at the right hand of the throne of the greatness in the heavens, we become willing in the day of His power, in holy splendour. We come under His authority as King. He is the King of righteousness and the King of peace. You cannot have peace without righteousness, therefore it must be "first being interpreted King of righteousness", as it says here. There is only one King who has ever lived who is a King of righteous-

ness, and that is Christ Himself. He is the King of righteousness, and therefore King of peace and Priest of the Most High God. I think you can see the order, in that way, because if you have righteousness and peace then God can have His portion. Thus you need kingship first, which would link with those who obey Him. So this passage says, "This Melchisedec [the word Melchisedec means king of righteousness] King of Salem, priest of the most high God". They are the titles brought in here. And if we obey Him, we come into righteousness and peace, and become available to Him as Priest of the most high God.

Verses 1 - 4 of Psalm 110 lead up to His priesthood. It says in verse 3, "Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in holy splendour"; a beautiful expression, the service of God proceeding in holy splendour. Then, in verse 5, "The Lord at thy right hand will smite through kings in the day of his anger". That is future; that is the next step. At present, the Kingly Priest has gone in; and there is the company, still on earth actually, who belong to Him within the veil; and the service is proceeding in holy splendour. But soon He will assume publicly His kingly power, and He will smite through kings in the day of His anger.

J.R.H. In the meantime He drinks of the brook in the way.

T.L.S. Does His kingship mean that there is authority in the priesthood?

G.R.C. Yes, He "shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne", Zechariah 6:13. So it says further down, "For it is clear that our Lord has sprung out of Judah", Hebrews 7:14. That is, He is the King. But the particular point at the present

time is that He is the Priest, He has gone in.

J.B. In John 13 where the Lord is washing His disciples' feet He says, "If I therefore, the Lord and the Teacher, have washed your feet, ye also ought to wash one another's feet", John 13:14. Is that the effect it should have on us?

G.R.C. I think so. What is in mind there is "part with me". He came from God and was going to God, John 13:3. It is a question of going in. And as the chapter proceeds here it says, "For such a high priest became us", Hebrews 7:26. It is a remarkable statement. We have had His greatness as the High Priest displayed before us in the previous passages; and now there is this remarkable expression as to the saints, that such a High Priest became us. What an impression this gives us of the greatness of the saints, through divine grace!

Ques. Do we need the High Priest in order that the service might be carried on in power? There is so much in us that needs to be displaced, and infirmity may hinder us, but the High Priest takes care of that.

G.R.C. His offering of Himself has made the way in for us; He has entered in as our Forerunner. Our place is within the veil, where He is. But then, as you say, we are encompassed with infirmity; and He has not only endured the atoning sufferings to make the way in for us, but He has been through every form of pressure down here, so as to be able to sympathise with us and succour and save us completely. This is so that we may be free at all times to enter the holiest in order that the service of God should go on in power -- a people willing in the day of His power, in holy splendour.

A.J.D. The greatness of the saints -- "such a High

Priest became us" -- is there a connection between that and the Sanctifier and sanctified all of one?

G.R.C. "For both he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one; for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren". The service of God at its highest level is to be carried on by the saints of this dispensation. Such a High Priest became us, in order that that service, which is essential for the Divine glory, and to satisfy Divine affections, should go on in power.

A.J.D. We are sustained on the high level which is proper to us as having such a great High Priest.

G.R.C. "Now a summary of the things of which we are speaking is, We have such a one high priest", Hebrews 8:1. He is ours! We have Him! He "has sat down on the right hand of the throne of the greatness in the heavens". Now think of that! The service of the sanctuary goes on in the presence of the throne of the greatness in the heavens. And we have a great High Priest who has sat down there, so that the service might be on a level which is in consonance with the throne of the greatness in the heavens.

Ques. Does the truth of His being Priest in the power of an indissoluble life involve that He imparts that life to us?

G.R.C. I do not think I would go so far as that. We do, of course, partake in His life in His glorified manhood, by the Spirit; but I think "indissoluble life" refers to what is intrinsic in Himself because of Who He is.

Rem. You would confine it to the Lord personally?

G.R.C. Yes. The great point for us to lay hold of is that we have such a One High Priest. We have One

like that! He is ours! He upholds all things, of course, by the word of His power; but He is in a particular way ours to uphold us in the service. And He is sitting down "on the right hand of the throne of the greatness in the heavens", and He is "minister of the holy places". We have a High Priest, but God has the Minister of the holy places. What He is for us as Priest is to sustain us in view of His service Godward as the Minister of the holy places. But have we apprehended that the Minister of the holy places is sitting down? When Jesus came into the midst He was standing. But have we apprehended that assembly service Godward, when it reaches its full volume, is in a sitting position? The Minister is sitting down, and sitting down at the right hand of the throne of the greatness in the heavens.

Ques. Why are you stressing the sitting down?

G.R.C. It suggests the remarkable dignity of the system, that the Minister is sitting down. Aaron never sat down; but now the Minister is sitting down, and the saints are sitting down; God "has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus", Ephesians 2:6. Think of the dignity of the whole system! The Minister is sitting down, and the company associated with Him within is privileged to sit down in the presence of the greatness. It is the most marvellous thing that creatures should be brought into such a position. If human majesty appeared in this hall at this moment we should stand, and rightly so; but, in the presence of the infinite majesty of God, God has so ordered things, has so ennobled us in infinite grace, that we can sit.

Rem. This Person has brought in completion both

for God and for us according to His system of glory.

G.R.C. Paul says God has made us sit down. We would not have thought of doing it. God has raised us up together, and made us sit down together. But one wonders how far we have apprehended the greatness of all this! The Minister is seated, and the saints are seated in the presence of infinite greatness.

A.N.W. It is the opposite of the prostration attitude you left us with this morning.

G.R.C. It is not far removed, you know, because the elders were sitting around the throne and then they prostrated themselves. It is in this restful attitude that our souls are ready for prostration, I believe.

Rem. David went in and sat before Jehovah.

G.R.C. Yet, David was beyond his dispensation.

J.R.H. Would you say sitting implies that we are set free from everything that is natural, for the moment?

G.R.C. I would. We are set at rest in the presence of the greatness, and it is a marvellous thing to consider.

Ques. In the sitting position, one of great restfulness, is there any thought of the service continuing in that restful state before God? The service goes on before God for ever.

G.R.C. Yes, Christ is sitting, and as thus seated He maintains the service. As to our being physically seated in the service of praise, we need to remember that a reverential attitude is always necessary. It is not right to speak of being in the presence of God, and yet to adopt a careless attitude which we would not adopt even in the presence of human greatness.

GREATNESS (3) -- THE OFFERING OF CHRIST

Hebrews 8:3, 6; Hebrews 9:11 - 14, 21 - 24; Hebrews 10:1 - 18

G.R.C. We have considered the greatness of the Person of the Son, and the greatness of His priesthood. The section from which we have now read, which begins at verse 3 of chapter 8, develops the greatness of His offering. It commences, "For every high priest is constituted for the offering both of gifts and sacrifices; whence it is needful that this one also should have something which he may offer". Chapters 9 and 10 develop in a particular way what that offering was. The truth of the matter is that He offered Himself; and the effectuation of eternal counsel depended upon that. In fact the establishment and functioning of the whole divine system depended upon the High Priest having something to offer, and that that offering should be nothing less than Himself. Whatever offerings are offered now -- we are privileged to offer the sacrifice of praise and so on -- they all flow out of the offering of Himself. Our burnt offerings and peace offerings and sin offerings are but our appreciation of the one great Offering. So that it is not only that this offering laid the basis for the system of worship and service Godward; it really has provided, through the Spirit operating in the affections of the saints, the material, as it were, for the whole service of gifts and sacrifices which has continued right through this dispensation, and which will continue. So chapter 8: 6 says, "But now he has got a more excellent ministry". That word "ministry"

refers back, as the note says, to verse 2, where He is spoken of as "minister of the holy places". It is a peculiar word, a word not often used for ministry. He is the minister of the holy places, and He has got a more excellent ministry than ever went before; but it is all founded upon the fact that He offered Himself. And so chapter 9 develops that He has entered in by His own blood once for all into the holy of holies -- chapter 9: 12. Of old the way into the holy of holies was not made manifest, as it says; but now He has entered in once for all; and He has stayed in. The priest of old went in and came out once a year; but the great point for the moment is that Christ has entered in; and He is still in. Chapter 9 then goes on to show the effect of His blood upon our consciences, showing that the offering of Himself is the basis on which the worshippers are secured: "purify your conscience from dead works to worship the living God", Hebrews 9:14. The great system of worship is established, but it is based upon the offering of Himself. Then, lower down, the chapter shows that the whole system has come under the power of the blood; "the tabernacle too and all the vessels of service he sprinkled in like manner with blood". And the apostle applies that to the heavenly things themselves. The expression "heavenly things" is the same word as "the heavenlies" in Ephesians. Then chapter 10 is very affecting as developing further the offering of Himself, and bringing in the thought of the Lord's body: "the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all", Hebrews 10:10 -- because it was the will of God to secure a sanctified company.

A.N.W. Are you intending to say that, in offering our praise and worship, we cannot do it rightly if we hold

ourselves back. We are exhorted to present our bodies a living sacrifice.

G.R.C. That would be the normal result of our appreciation of the offering of the body of Jesus Christ.

W.T.L. And would you say, too, that it would be in the light of this that Paul says to the Colossians, "And everything, whatever ye may do in word or in deed, do all things in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father by him", Colossians 3:17.

G.R.C. I am sure that an apprehension of the offering of Himself -- His great high priestly offering -- would secure a continuous response in our hearts, and would result in ourselves being set here for the will of God. He says, "Lo, I come ... to do, O God, thy will", Hebrews 10:7. Think of what that will involved for Him; but think of what He has established! Think of the results of it, that He has established suitable conditions for God to dwell! The true tabernacle has been pitched and purified; and this more excellent ministry, as under His hand as the Minister of the holy places, is proceeding. What an immense thing He came to do in coming to do God's will!

J.R.H. So that the whole system is permeated by the offering of Himself. It is to characterise us all in our approach in worship.

G.R.C. It is the appreciation of that which will set us free, as we shall see when we come to entrance into the holiest. I believe we need what we have had before us -- an apprehension of the greatness of His Person; of the greatness of His priesthood; and, in a special way, of the greatness of His offering, the offering of Himself -- if we are to have the liberty which is proper to us as Christians to enter the holy

of holies at all times. He has made a way for us right through into the holy of holies.

C.A.M. Would it include, in this great sacrificial system, the daily, weekly, monthly and yearly sacrifices? The whole year was filled out sacrificially in the type.

G.R.C. The continuous nature of the offerings in the types would show, in its teaching for us, how freshly we should hold in our affections, before God, this great sacrifice.

A.B.P. It was only the blood of sin offerings on the day of atonement which was taken through the veil into the holiest.

G.R.C. That is what is primarily in mind in the section of the book we are on.

A.B.P. You mentioned that He has gone in, and is still within. The completion of the day of atonement still awaits His coming out, I suppose, in its broad sense.

G.R.C. Yes, but then the writer of this epistle is concerned that we should know Our place inside. Our Forerunner has entered in, and, by the sacrifice of Himself, has laid the basis for us to enter in. He has entered in by His own blood. The coming out is referred to at the end of chapter 9. It is the thing we look for, because we know that when He comes out we shall come out with Him. We belong inside. Now that is the great thing to apprehend at the present time. He is inside, and we belong inside.

J.G.H. The greatness of His offering is emphasized in chapter 9: 11, "But Christ being come high priest ... by his own blood".

G.R.C. He has entered in by His own blood, which stresses the greatness of His sacrifice. It stands in

contrast to the types: "not by blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood, has entered in once for all into the holy of holies".

Rem. This is a wonderful dispensation in which we are found. It says at the end of verse 10 that the Jewish system was imposed until the time of setting things right. This dispensation is one in which things have been set right. It is therefore a great matter for worship.

G.R.C. It is. I wonder how far we have really grasped that what was in the type of old -- that is the tabernacle -- actually exists now. What was existing then was but a type and a shadow; and yet the position was such that, even in that which was only a type, the high priest could only enter once a year, and with blood not his own. But now we have come to the real thing -- the true tabernacle, which the Lord has pitched and not man. And not only have we come to it, but we form part of it. The true tabernacle is existing here -- in the assembly at the present time.

Ques. What did you have in mind in the coming out with Him?

G.R.C. It is an important side, but what will qualify us for coming out is our going in. Those who believe in Jesus will God bring with Him; but we shall go in first into our eternal place. Colossians speaks of it also, "When the Christ is manifested who is our life, then shall ye also be manifested with him in glory", Colossians 3:4. Meantime, "your life is hid with the Christ in God", Colossians 3:3. That is the inside place, and that is the thing we need to know more about. Our Forerunner has entered in; and, in this dispensation, the great thing for the saints to learn is their place inside. We shall be ready then for

coming out. In principle, of course, the thing works now morally. That is, if we are to come out suitably in testimony, we need to know our place inside, even now. It is only those who know their place inside, within the veil, who can rightly testify to Christ at the present time; and only such, really, can rightly serve God in worship and priestly service.

J.R.H. So that this entering in by His own blood is not simply for Himself, is it? It is really for us -- the way is cleared for us.

G.R.C. Yes, it is. It says, "But Christ being come high priest of the good things to come". The note helps, I think, as to that. It says, "Dia here gives the character of his coming. He came in the power of, and characterized by, these things". So that Christ came as characterized by "the good things to come, by the better and more perfect tabernacle"; and His going in, by His own blood, has brought into living operation the whole system. That is what I would understand. It has made a way in for us, the heavenly company, and has really brought into operation the whole system.

W.T.L. Has He gone in as High Priest, and by His own blood, in order that there may be a dwelling place for God -- that God may have His place and portion?

G.R.C. Surely. This epistle is largely speaking about what it means for us, because the Hebrews needed that, and we need it. But we also need to keep in mind just what you say, that the great point is that God should have His dwelling place, and should dwell undisturbed in a system fragrant and wholly according to Himself, where every stain of sin under His eye is removed, and where He can thus dwell complacently and be served acceptably by worshippers

whose consciences are purified from dead works.

G.A.S. Is there a suggestion in Leviticus that the sons of Aaron are in the appreciation and understanding of that? They present the blood.

G.R.C. In Leviticus 1:5, "And Aaron's sons, the priests, shall present the blood and sprinkle the blood round about the altar". That is the blood of the burnt offering. Then as to the peace offering in Leviticus 7:33, "He of the sons of Aaron that presenteth the blood of the peace offerings, and the fat, shall have the right shoulder for his part". I think, as you say, that the sons of Aaron characteristically have an appreciation of the blood -- not simply in its bearing on us, but in what it means to God. That is, they are with God in His appreciation of the blood. And I think that is an important matter. Those chapters in Leviticus suppose the priest functioning. We have not reached that yet in this series of readings. We are still speaking about the High Priest and what He did -- His unique service in what He offered, which is the basis of everything. But having learned the value of His service, and having entered the holiest, we become qualified, intelligently, to serve. And you can quite understand that in Christianity, where we have liberty to go in at all times, and, having gone in, have seen the blood on the mercy seat and sprinkled seven times before the mercy seat, we shall have a profound appreciation of the blood. I believe it is a great thing with God that His priests should be able to come before Him as sharing with Him His own appreciation of the blood. I believe that is what the presenting means.

J.R.H. Do you think that should help us in regard to addressing the Lord in relation to the cup?

G.R.C. I think it should. The cup, strictly, would link more with the peace offering, because the peace offering is the view of the offering of Christ in which He loved us and gave Himself for us. He died to establish the Christian fellowship with all its blessings. And the blood of the covenant is the witness of that. It is all witness of perfect love and unmixed blessing, founded upon His blood; "This cup is the new covenant in my blood", 1 Corinthians 11:25. We have the greatest blessing of any family, but it has secured the blessing of all the families. The tabernacle and all the instruments of service were sprinkled with blood. It involves in its fulness a universe of blessing. But I would not omit the burnt offering side from the cup. We may be equal, at that point in the service, to thinking of the other side of the matter -- the blood as the witness of a work completed for God. Indeed, all depends upon the work completed for God. That is the idea of the priest presenting the blood of the burnt offering. It was customary in the Old Testament for burnt offerings and peace offerings to be offered together -- see Exodus 24:5 and other passages.

C.D. A deeper appreciation of that would give us more liberty in the service.

G.R.C. It would, because it is by the blood of Jesus that we have boldness.

C.D. "To him who loves us, and has washed us from our sins in his blood, and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father", Revelation 1:5.

G.R.C. Exactly. But how wonderful to present the blood to God! We are apt to think only of what the blood has done for us, but the priests present it to God. They have an appreciation of God's estimate of the blood.

J.A.P. Did the Lord refer to the burnt offering or the peace offering when He said. "And having taken the cup and given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it. For this is my blood, that of the new covenant, that shed for many for remission of sins", Matthew 26:27 - 28. What was the Lord referring to there?

G.R.C. I think we have to remember that the four offerings of old typify one great offering: "For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the sanctified" Hebrews 10:14. And then, "Sacrifices and offerings and burnt-offerings and sacrifices for sin thou willedst not, neither tookest pleasure in". That includes all four offerings. "Sacrifices" refers to peace offerings. The peace offering is habitually called a sacrifice in the Old Testament -- a sacrifice of peace offering. Then the meat offerings -- or oblations -- and then burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin. Now all those offerings are offerings by fire. That should touch our hearts; they are all offerings by fire. The Lord came to bear the fire. The most severe is the sin offering, which comes last in that verse. Blood is connected with three of them, the peace offering, the burnt offering and the sin offering. It is in connection with the peace offering and the burnt offering that the sons of Aaron are said to present the blood. I do not think the word 'present' is used in connection with the sin offering. The blood of the sin offering was poured out at the bottom of the altar, Leviticus 4:7, 18, 25 and 34. On the day of atonement it was also taken in, and sprinkled on the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat. That was done by the High Priest only -- He only could take the blood inside. But I would say in Matthew 26:28 we should not limit it, because all four offerings were

necessary to secure our blessing -- He offered Himself.

J.A.P. That fits in with what a brother said in our area, that the Lord actually gave a word at the taking of the cup, as if He would enlarge on what we are now speaking of.

G.R.C. I believe the Lord would help us in relation to the cup. But there is also scope for expressing our appreciation of the blood later in the service. When we are thinking of God in His greatness and majesty, we can speak to Him as sharing, in our measure, His estimate of the blood and what it has effected for Him.

Rem. In speaking of the counsels of God, Paul speaks of "the assembly of God, which he has purchased with the blood of his own", Acts 20:28. Is there a link there?

G.R.C. Quite so. What a level that is!

C.D. You feel we really need a deeper appreciation of what the blood means to God.

G.R.C. That is it. That is what the priests should have.

C.D. Instead of our side -- what it has done for us -- we need to think of what the blood has done for God -- its infinite value!

G.R.C. The only gospel which refers to the blood at the cross is the gospel of John: "but one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and immediately there came out blood and water", John 19:34. And that is the gospel where the Lord Jesus says on the cross, "It is finished" John 19:30. And it is also the gospel where He says to His Father, "I have glorified thee on the earth, I have completed the work which thou gavest me that I should do it", John 17:4. We use those scriptures, especially the first, in the gospel,

and it is very good thus to assure the sinner; but that is not the proper setting. The point in John is that the work is finished for God. It is a question of what the blood is for God. The blood and water from His side is also a witness to us. That is like the peace offering. It is a witness to us that God has given us eternal life, as it says in the epistle. But the great thing to apprehend, I believe, is the work completed for God. That is the highest view of the matter.

F.W. Is it not remarkable that in the gospel the blood comes first? I think I see something in what you are saying, that this for God. But when we come to the epistle the water is first, as though that would be for us.

G.R.C. In the epistle it is certainly the peace offering character; in fact throughout the epistle of John the peace offering character of the death of Christ is stressed. The sin offering comes in in chapter 1, "the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin", 1 John 1:7. That is the basic matter -- the foundation, as it were, for the whole system to function. But then, as the epistle proceeds, the apostle is dealing with the death of Christ from the standpoint of the peace offering. "Hereby we have known love, because he has laid down his life for us", 1 John 3:16. And it is the bearing of the peace offering on us, that we should lay down our lives for the brethren. You see, if we appreciate what Christ has done for us, we shall lay down our lives for the brethren; and that is how the peace offering is continued, in the principle of it. It is on that line that the saints remain a spiritually wealthy people. The Lord died to make us wealthy; but in a practical way the wealth continuing depends upon the saints following Him in peace offering

character, bringing their peace offerings, and laying down their lives for the brethren. The main point of that epistle is the peace offering; and therefore you can understand, at the end, that it is what the blood is as the witness to us, the Spirit and the water and the blood all agreeing in the witness that God has given to us eternal life. But then, as you say, the Gospel is what the blood is to God; and I believe, if we see that, we shall enjoy John's gospel more. The Lord says, "It is finished". He was speaking in relation to His God.

A.N.W. Even in the type, at the outset in Egypt, the word is "when I see the blood".

G.R.C. Quite so; so that even there the blood was for God.

Rem. In Cain's offering there was no blood, no remission of sins, and no love for his brother.

G.R.C. And that is why it speaks of dead works in Hebrews, "How much rather shall the blood of Christ, who by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God, purify your conscience from dead works to worship the living God". We can only serve God aright, and be true worshippers, as we are in the gain of sabbath. The Lord says, "It is finished" -- the great sabbath is brought in. The sabbath is connected with God finishing His work. He works by Himself and for Himself, and finishes it; and then He rests. That happened in creation, but was soon spoilt; and then it happened in connection with the work of redemption. There was a great work to be done; and the Son did it, by and for Himself, as we have already seen. And He has completed the work. "I have completed the work which thou gavest me that I should do it", John 17:4; anticipatively there, but on

the cross He says, "It is finished". That is the next great sabbath. That work is done; and until we approach God in the appreciation of the great fact that that work is done, and are really resting in this, we cannot do any works which are acceptable to Him. They are dead works. Cain began the history of dead works, and they are offensive to God.

Ques. In verse 12, what is the force of the expression "once for all"?

G.R.C. "... has entered in once for all into the holy of holies ...", is the contrast, I think, to the priest entering in once a year. In that which was type, the priest could go in only once a year; and only the high priest -- no other priest, as we know; and he had to come out again. "But Christ being come high priest of the good things to come, by the better and more perfect tabernacle not made with hand ... by his own blood, has entered in once for all ...". There is no coming out and going in again, in that sense. He will come out for display. But so far as the work is concerned, He has gone in once for all. It is a completed matter. The matter of sabbath is a very important thing, because unless we have arrived at sabbath in our souls, we cannot begin to work properly for God, or serve. It will be servile work. When the people were before God there was to be no servile work. We need to be in the sense of sabbath in the way in which we are speaking of it now -- God's rest in Christ and His completed work -- so that we are not bringing anything of man into the matter, anything of ourselves. Only thus are we true worshippers.

H.B. Would that be the order in Leviticus 23 -- that the sabbath comes in at the beginning of the set feasts?

G.R.C. It is a striking thing that the sabbath comes in at the beginning of the set feasts. It says in that verse that the sabbath was to be observed in all their dwellings. It is a matter which should mark our homes. The sense of resting in Christ, and His finished work, should govern us in our homes. They will not be proper homes according to God unless it does. Not only shall we be restful, and our homes held for God, but we shall not tolerate anything which Christ's death has put away. We shall not tolerate any feature of the old man if we are in the gain of God's sabbath in Christ. This should govern our homes; and if it does not govern our homes, assembly service will be interfered with, and the feasts of Jehovah interfered with.

W.T.L. Is that why in the verse you quoted it is, "how much rather shall the blood of the Christ", Hebrews 9:14. It is not Jesus, but the Christ. Everything of the old order is shut out, and He is the Head of the new order which is coming in. Is that the idea?

G.R.C. That is very good. It really means, I think, that He is the Centre of an anointed system, which all takes character from Him as the Christ. Every activity in the system is to be in the power of the anointing, which shuts out man after the flesh altogether. And the completed work for God has set God free to anoint us. We know there was the anointing in type, but the actual anointing by the Spirit has come about because Christ's work is done. This offering is completed. And in our activities we are to allow nothing which is outside of the anointing.

J.P. Would not then these expressions -- the better covenant, the better promises, the better and more perfect tabernacle and the more excellent ministry --

all help us to elevate our thoughts as to the uniqueness of this service, and of the One who has introduced it?

G.R.C. They would, and our affections will be stirred and maintained in an active state in relation to the offering of Himself. It ought to affect us every time we think of it -- that such an One should inaugurate the system by the offering of Himself. I cannot conceive of anything which should move the souls of the saints more.

Dr. C. When the Spirit came down at Pentecost, He filled all the house where they were sitting. I was thinking of what you are speaking of, and the import of the sitting.

G.R.C. That is an interesting point, and it bears on the thought of sabbath. It says in Hebrews 10:12, "But he, having offered one sacrifice for sins, sat down in perpetuity at the right hand of God". The work is done from this standpoint. There is much to be done in new creative work before the final sabbath, when the One on the throne says, "It is done", in Revelation 21:6. That is final. But we are to be in the sense of sabbath in this respect. Our great High Priest, our Forerunner, has finished the work; He has sat down in perpetuity at the right hand of God, and that is to characterise the system.

J.H. Is there salvation in the understanding and observing of sabbath in our households?

G.R.C. I believe that if we have an appreciation of God working by and for Himself in creation, in redemption and in new creation, we shall want nothing out of accord with it in our homes. We shall want no feature of the old man there. Any feature of the old man would be out of keeping with God's sabbath.

A.N.W. That is a remarkable reference to sitting, because it speaks, under the old economy, of the priests standing daily. There was no seat in that system.

G.R.C. There was no rest in that system, no finality. The sacrifices were unable to perfect, as to conscience, those who approached. There was no rest for the conscience, and no true service towards God.

Rem. In order to have true service and proper worship in the assembly, the thing must be worked out at home.

G.R.C. That is how Leviticus 23 begins. It is the great chapter dealing with the convocations. It begins with the home. We need to look after our homes. It is, "in all your dwellings", Leviticus 23:14. We may have a house, but it may not be a dwelling. God's dwelling is based on what we are saying -- the offering of Christ. It is through the offering of Christ that God has secured a dwelling place amongst men, and our homes are to be dwellings.

A.J.D. Was it not through the households that the testimony came into Europe?

G.R.C. It shows the importance of households in working out the truth of the assembly to its full level, because that was what was in mind in Europe.

J.R.H. You were going to say something more about the dwellings.

G.R.C. It is interesting that the word 'dwelling' is used. Not every house is a dwelling. I believe it is as we learn to keep sabbath that our houses become true dwellings according to God.

J.R.H. You are attaching the thought of dwelling to rest?

G.R.C. Yes, God dwells in restful conditions.

A.B.P. Lydia said, "If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and abide there", Acts 16:15. She seemed to have gotten the idea, do you not think?

G.R.C. "Abide there". What a dwelling it must have been! When Paul came out of prison, he came to Lydia.

T.L.S. The contrast of what you are saying as to the houses seems to be set out in Abraham and Lot. Abraham sitting by the tent door is available to the visitors. Lot is not so well set in his house.

G.R.C. Abraham was restful. He was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.

A.B.P. I would like to ask about the day of atonement not coming in at the beginning of Leviticus, and apparently no restrictions upon entering into the holiest at the beginning of the book. The restrictions came in as the result of the offering of strange fire. Is all that to be held in background in our souls as we contemplate the glory of our approach? Nothing of the flesh, or of human intellect, should intrude as we enter there.

G.R.C. That is very good. And do you not think that that bears on a verse which we did not read in Hebrews 9:4, "Having a golden censer". We are not told in the Old Testament that the censer was golden, but we are told it here. On the day of atonement, when Aaron went in, he went in with the censer. It says in Leviticus 16:12, "And he shall take the censer full of burning coals of fire from off the altar before Jehovah" -- no strange fire there -- "and both his hands full of fragrant incense beaten small, and bring it inside the veil. And he shall put the incense

upon the fire before Jehovah, that the cloud of the incense may cover the mercy seat which is upon the testimony, that he die not. And he shall take of the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle with his finger upon the front of the mercy-seat eastward; and before the mercy-seat shall he sprinkle of the blood seven times with his finger". It seems to me a most beautiful type of the Lord Jesus. He went in in all the fragrance of His Person. It was on the basis of the offering of Himself. It was by His own blood; but He goes in in all the fragrance of His Person, which the very sufferings of atonement had brought out in fulness. It was the very sufferings He went through, in offering Himself, which brought the fragrance into full manifestation; and He goes in in this cloud of incense, "that the cloud of the incense may cover the mercy-seat". And earlier in verse 2 God says, "for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy-seat". It was as though, as the cloud of incense met the cloud on the mercy-seat, God appeared in the cloud. It drew out the outshining of God. He shone forth from between the cherubim. And that is the present position. Christ has gone in in the power of His own blood, but also in all the fragrance of His Person, brought out fully in the very sufferings of atonement; and the result is that God has shone out, "thou that sittest between the cherubim, shine forth", Psalm 80:1. God has appeared, and He is shining forth; and the One who has gone in in this cloud of fragrant incense is Himself the shining forth; "who being the effulgence of his glory and the expression of his substance", Hebrews 1:3.

Ques. You mentioned Aaron's sons having an appreciation of the blood, and that there was room to

think of that both at the beginning and the end of the service.

G.R.C. When we are worshipping God as God, in His glory and majesty, we may think of the blood as the witness to the work completed for Him. If we can sing, "Thou dwellest now, O God, midst fragrant praise", what is the basis of it? How could it be? Well, what a value He puts upon the blood that has laid the basis for that dwelling!

A.B.P. Would you say something about Hebrews 9:14, "How much rather shall the blood of the Christ, who by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God". Does that link with the fragrance being brought out?

G.R.C. It is a most affecting verse, is it not? "Who by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God". Who can estimate the fragrance of it?

A.B.P. I feel that if we understood this verse better there would be more part given to the Spirit in the morning meeting, as we speak of it. One has observed, in having the privilege of being in various places with the brethren, that there still seems to be a lack in relation to the intelligent and worshipful response to the Spirit.

G.R.C. I am glad you have mentioned that, because if we do not give the Spirit His place from our hearts -- if we are not giving the Spirit His place and realizing that we cannot do anything without Him -- the service cannot be what it should be. We shall not go through the service with that smoothness and ease which should mark it until we arrive at the highest levels. And if the Spirit is with us all through the service, we shall be sustained when we reach the highest levels. It will not be just a touch of it at the

end, but we shall be conscious of His help and power.

A.B.P. And one has felt that, with the ministry we have had, it is a question of what it is that is lacking -- as to whether it is this matter of the dwellings you are speaking of, our communion with the Spirit in personal history, our sowing to the Spirit, our walking by the Spirit; whether that is the background which makes possible having power for response to the Spirit in the service of praise?

G.R.C. That is a very sobering and good consideration. How we would all long to know the Spirit better in personal intercourse, and as practically proving Him in every department of life -- in our homes, and our businesses and our personal matters. Let us, from today on, seek to live by the Spirit, and walk by the Spirit, and sow to the Spirit. You see it perfectly in the Lord, He was led by the Spirit in the wilderness; He was full of the Spirit, and so on. And therefore when it came to the offering of Himself, it was by the eternal Spirit. When we come to offer our sacrifice of praise, if we have not been in liberty with the Spirit in other departments of life how can we expect to know how to avail ourselves of Him then?

H.O.E. Is that why the later part of the verse follows: "purify your conscience from dead works to worship the living God"?

G.R.C. I believe anything done in a religious way in the service of God -- that is, apart from the Spirit -- is dead works. And that is a solemn thing to think about.

Rem. There is an interesting word in Hebrews 9:8, "The Holy Spirit shewing this". Would you not say that if we were nearer to the Spirit in all our

relationships we would know more of what the offerings mean to God?

G.R.C. Yes, I am sure. This is an important matter we are on, that the system has been inaugurated by the Lord Jesus offering Himself by the eternal Spirit spotless to God; and if that is how the system was inaugurated, every activity in the system should be by the eternal Spirit.

A.J.D. Is that the burnt-offering?

G.R.C. I think it is all four. There are four types, but in chapter 10, after having enumerated the four types, it says, "by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the sanctified".

P.W. Would you help us as to the word "eternal".

G.R.C. Well, it is in keeping with the epistle generally. In Hebrews 9:12 it speaks of "an eternal redemption"; in verse 14, "by the eternal spirit"; and in verse 15, "the eternal inheritance". Of course, the Spirit is eternal; He is God. But I think the word "eternal" is to emphasize that which marks the whole system. The redemption is eternal; the inheritance is eternal; and the Spirit, by whom we serve, is eternal.

E.M. In chapter 8 we get the greatness of the sacrifice, "whence it is needful that this one also should have something which he may offer". Chapter 9 gives us the way in which He offered it.

G.R.C. That is it. It was by the eternal Spirit that He offered Himself spotless to God. We may well pause and think of what it meant to the Spirit.

Ques. Would you say a word as to why the living God is brought in in the last clause of that verse?

G.R.C. In contrast to dead works. He is the living God, and therefore everything in christianity is living. We belong to the tabernacle, or dwelling place,

of the living God. He lives and moves in it. We ourselves do not remain static in our own houses.

E.C. I would like to ask about your remark yesterday as to the love of the Spirit for the Father and for the Son. Does that enter into this matter? The Lord says, "I love the Father". But you do not get the Spirit saying that; but it must be so.

G.R.C. The Spirit does not speak much about Himself. He is an example for us.

A.N.W. May I enquire, in relation to this profound enquiry this afternoon, whether we have to leave in abeyance the Melchisedec function of the priesthood?

G.R.C. Yes, because that would link more, would it not, with the Lord coming out in blessing? Although we do experience it, for the Lord comes to us, it is not the coming out publicly. But as we partake of the supper the Lord comes in in blessing. So I think in a kind of way we anticipate the blessing.

A.N.W. That is very good.

G.R.C. But as to the eternal Spirit, think of the feelings of the Spirit when the Lord Jesus offered Himself! The Spirit brooded over the face of the waters at the beginning; He came down in bodily form as a dove upon the Lord, and, according to John, abode upon Him. And then think of this moment! What it meant to the Holy Spirit! The Spirit entered into the whole matter of the death of Christ. The Spirit entered into the matter of His birth: "The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and power of the Highest overshadow thee", Luke 1:35. Think of how the Spirit has entered with feeling into all these things! And He would give us feelings.

J.H. Does this verse concentrate our attention on what Divine Persons have done by Themselves and for

Themselves; with a view to Their praise and worship?

G.R.C. It does. The idea of sabbath means that we are resting in what God has done by and for Himself.

Rem. It speaks of the Lord Jesus having done everything in the power of the Spirit. Is that the eternal Spirit?

G.R.C. This was a kind of climax. He had done everything by the Spirit in His life; but now, by the eternal Spirit He offers Himself. Marvellous thing! And the whole service is to be in the Spirit's power. Let us remember that! That is how the service has been inaugurated, and it must go on in the same way. The whole service of God must be energised by the eternal Spirit.

A.B.P. And is that strengthened by the record, which Luke gives us in the Acts about the Lord in resurrection life, assembling with His own, and then charging them by the Spirit?

G.R.C. It is remarkable that, even in resurrection, He should do that. Do you think it was to bring it home to them that that was how things were to be continued?

A.B.P. I think so. Those forty days are days we should acquaint ourselves with, do you not think? How can we move in the sphere beyond death unless we have come to know something of that set out in Christ personally?

G.R.C. It seems to me that if you read Acts 1 and the account of those forty days, you can see that the Lord left the hundred and twenty with great expectation as to Who was coming. He says there, "But ye shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit after now not many days", Acts 1:5. Think of their expectation!

Day by day He had left them with an impression of the greatness of the Person who was coming. It is evident that Peter had apprehended it, because he gets up amongst the brethren and says, "Which the Holy Spirit spoke before, by the mouth of David", Acts 1:16. That is, the Holy Spirit had become a known Person to Peter. Peter recognised the Holy Spirit as a Divine Person. And they all were in great expectation as to His coming.

J.A.P. So when Stephen was called home, it says, "But being full of the Holy Spirit, having fixed his eyes on heaven, he saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, Lo, I behold the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God". That is how he went out.

G.R.C. That really links with Hebrews. Stephen's view is the Hebrews view, is it not?

J.A.P. That is helpful, say more about it.

G.R.C. Well, it is the opened heavens. Hebrews has been called the book of the opened heavens. He saw the heavens opened, and he saw the glory of God and Jesus. It was really the holiest.

J.A.P. He was full of the Holy Spirit.

G.R.C. He was full of the Holy Spirit, and that is what we need to be. We need to be full of the Holy Spirit to apprehend what we are privileged to contemplate in the holiest. Stephen was physically on earth, but actually in spirit he was in the holiest.

J.McK. I was wondering about the body in chapter 10, "thou hast prepared me a body", verse 5. And "Through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all".

G.R.C. As far as I have read, when the Lord's

body is referred to it stands related to the saints of this dispensation. His blood has a wider bearing; it bears on us, of course, in a particular way; but then it bears on the whole universe.

A.B.P. The Hebrew servant entered into that -- he came in "with his body". See the note on Exodus 21:3.

G.R.C. Very good. "I love my master, my wife and my children", Exodus 21:5; and so in speaking of His body it says, "by which will we have been sanctified" -- that is, the present heavenly company -- "through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all", Hebrews 10:10. It is intended to affect us particularly. The Lord says: "My body which is for you".

Ques. How do we understand "the face of God"?

G.R.C. Well, I have often wished I knew -- "now to appear before the face of God for us", Hebrews 9:24. So far as we are concerned, the face of God, of course, is seen in Jesus. It says: "And his servants [bondmen] shall serve him, and they shall see his face", Revelation 22:4. "Serve" is priestly service there. It is the face of Jehovah Elohim; and, I would say, is seen in Jesus. But as to the verse you quote, I would like some help on it.

A.B.P. It must relate to expression of feelings in the countenance, do you think?

G.R.C. Very good.

GREATNESS (4) -- APPROACH

Hebrews 10:19 - 25; Colossians 1:19 - 23

G.R.C. It is in mind to dwell mainly on the passage in Hebrews. The passage in Colossians has been read only as confirmatory, and as giving another view. We may also be led to refer to other scriptures which help as to the holiest, but the main passage before us is in Hebrews 10. Our previous readings have been leading up to this point. We have considered the greatness of the Person of the Son, the greatness of His Priesthood, and the greatness of the offering of Himself; and all this leads up to this exhortation, "let us approach". He has entered in once for all into the holy of holies by His own blood, but now we are exhorted to enter. The exhortation is based on two things which we have: "having therefore, brethren, boldness", and, "having a great priest over the house of God", Hebrews 10:19 - 21; these, in a way, summarise our last two readings, although in the reverse order. That is, because of the one great offering of Himself we have boldness for entering "by the blood of Jesus, the new and living way which he has dedicated for us through the veil, that is, his flesh"; and then we have a great Priest. So that, having thus the benefit of His offering and His priesthood, we are exhorted to approach. And the qualifications on our side are a true heart and full assurance of faith. This exhortation is to encourage us to enter, to approach; but there is nothing here to indicate what occupies us when we are inside. We have to go to other passages to get

an idea of what occupies us when we are within the veil; but then the order of things here is that, having entered, we come out in testimony. "Let us hold fast the confession of the hope unwavering"; then, "let us consider one another for provoking to love and good works"; and then, "not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together", Hebrews 10:23 - 25. They are the features which would mark those who have been inside.

J.R.H. Does the passage in Hebrews 7:25 show that approach is to be a characteristic matter with us? "Whence also he is able to save completely those who approach by him to God".

G.R.C. Surely, and that is in the section of the book which deals with the greatness of His priesthood. "For such a high priest became us"; He is "always living to intercede for them" Hebrews 7:25 - 26. He is a Priest in the power of an indissoluble life, so that He is able to save completely those who approach by Him to God. And that would bear on the word here, "having a great priest", Hebrews 10:21. We need the two things; we need the boldness which springs from an appreciation of the offering of Himself, and then we need the present service of the great Priest.

F.K.C. In Jeremiah 30:21 it says, "For who is this that engageth his heart to draw near unto me? saith Jehovah". Would this answer that?

G.R.C. It would. Our calling is a marvellous thing! Our proper place is within the veil where Jesus has entered as Forerunner for us. Other families have other places in this great system, but our place is within. And the way is open at all times, "He has dedicated for us through the veil, that is, his flesh". And if we realised the wonder of this, we would be

entering at all times. It is not once a day, nor twice a day, although it is very important to do so specifically at least twice a day; but we would be entering at all available times. As the hymn says, "His presence is our home".

Ques. Why are we so slow to take that truth on, and avail ourselves of our privilege to enter?

G.R.C. There may be more than one reason. We may be bound to earth and earthly things which crowd out these things, so that we do not make opportunities. On the other hand, we may not have apprehended properly the great completed work of Christ, nor appreciated that we have a great Priest over the house of God. I believe that if we laid hold of what has already engaged us in our previous readings, and judged earthly tendencies which would hold us down, we would rejoice with joy unspeakable to be able to enter at all times into the holy of holies; and we would seek to be there as often and as much as we can. It is a most blessed thing! If you think of earthly majesty and greatness, it is very difficult to get into the presence of it. You would have to go through many intermediaries to arrive there. But think of the amazing thing which is before us here. The Lord Jesus has sat down on the right hand of the greatness on high. His place is unique, of course; nevertheless He has entered in as Forerunner for us; and we have access to the audience chamber, to the very presence of the majesty, at all times.

C.A.M. Will you say something about the veil? It says, "that is his flesh". Would that mean that the truth of the incarnation is exceedingly great to us?

G.R.C. It involves the truth of the incarnation, and also the truth of His death. We could not enter in

apart from His death. "Having therefore, brethren, boldness for entering into the holy of holies by the blood of Jesus", -- that involves His death -- "the new" -- and the note says 'newly or recently made', and I understand a sacrificial meaning attaches to it -- "and living way which he has dedicated" -- that word 'dedicate' would indicate that it is a costly matter -- "for us through the veil, that is, his flesh". Now there would be no entry for us into the holiest but for His death. So "through the veil" involves the incarnation, and the death and entering in of Christ Himself. If we need confirmation of that we would go to the first chapter of Colossians. That chapter presents what is comparable to the holiest; not what it means from our side, our privilege, but what it means to the Fulness. It says, "And you, who once were alienated and enemies in mind by wicked works, yet now has it reconciled in the body of his flesh through death", Colossians 1:21, 22. That 'it' refers to the Fulness of the Godhead. That is the way the veil is referred to in Colossians.

J.S. It must mean very much to the heart of the blessed God for His people to desire to be in His presence.

G.R.C. Well, that is another point; and that is more the Colossian view -- the delight of the Fulness to have us there, holy, unblamable and irreproachable before It. We can understand the delight of heaven, the delight of God, when Christ entered in. But it gives great joy to God, great joy indeed to the Fulness to see the saints entering in.

J.R.H. Would that imply the work of the Spirit in the soul being appreciated in heaven?

G.R.C. It is because we are His companions. "For

both he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one", Hebrews 2:11. We belong to Him. We belong to the One who has gone in. That involves the work of God in our souls, of course. But He has sanctified us at such a cost; our going in has involved the offering of His body once for all. So you can understand with what exultation God regards the entering in of the sanctified company. Jude touches it again, "and to set you with exultation blameless before his glory", Jude 24.

J.M. Why did you say we ought to go in twice a day at least?

G.R.C. That would link with the morning and evening oblation. We cannot properly function in connection with the morning and evening oblation unless we go inside.

W.T.L. Are we not inclined to leave this matter until Lord's Day morning -- the Supper and the service of God?

G.R.C. That is why we do not get on so well as we might on Lord's Day morning. Christianity is a living system. If we learn to take up livingly and vitally the morning and evening oblation, we shall find it revolutionises our lives.

W.T.L. Is that why the word "continually" comes in in chapter 13? "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise continually to God, that is, the fruit of the lips confessing his name", Hebrews 13:15.

G.R.C. Yes, exactly. Hebrews 2:12 gives the assembly; but what we are considering now builds up to that. The second chapter is, from our side, the greatest point in the epistle, where it says, "in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises", Hebrews 2:12; but we are leading up to that. Of course, we

realise the presence of God in the assembly in a greater way than we could individually; but the great tiling in this chapter is to recognise that the immediate presence of God -- the holy of holies -- is open to us at all times.

J.P. Does the lack of our entering in lie in lack of these two qualifications -- the true heart, which would be the corrective to any moral defect; and the full assurance of faith, as involving a full appreciation of the system and He who is over it?

G.R.C. I think that is a very just remark. What is encouraging about the qualifications is that it does not involve growth. What I mean is that entering the holiest is available to the youngest believer. The qualifications are moral ones -- a true heart and full assurance of faith. The simplest believer can have these; he does not have to wait until he becomes a father according to John's epistle before he enters the holiest. It is not to be put off at all.

C.D. It does involve state, does it not: "sprinkled as to our hearts from a wicked conscience, and washed as to our body with pure water"?

G.R.C. Those two things are simply the gospel. The scripture read in Colossians confirms this, "if indeed ye abide in the faith founded and firm, and not moved away from the hope of the glad tidings", Colossians 1:23. The reception of the gospel secures this great privilege to us. The more there is growth, the better we shall appreciate what we contemplate inside; but do not let us think that the inside place belongs only to those advanced in the truth.

H.O.E. Does our reception in the presence of God, then, have nothing to do with anything we do?

G.R.C. What is needed on our side is what is

said here; firstly, a true heart -- that is a heart which accepts the truth. I accept the truth as to myself, that as after the flesh I am completely shut out, but that Christ has vicariously taken my place. I repent, therefore, in dust and ashes. It is remarkable how extensively the work of Christ is referred to in chapter 9: 13 - 14. "For if the blood of goats and bulls, and a heifers ashes sprinkling the defiled, sanctifies for the purity of the flesh, how much rather shall the blood of the Christ, who by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God, purify your conscience from dead works to worship the living God?" That is, the type in question is not only the day of atonement, but also the red heifer of Numbers 19, which is the most terrible picture of burning in the types. There is no such severe picture of burning as that. Cedarwood and hyssop and scarlet were cast into the burning; and the heifer's ashes were the basis of the water of purification for sin. I think the true heart is one which accepts the application of those ashes. As to what I am after the flesh, the matter has been dealt with in utmost thoroughness in the One who took my place. My soul is moved as I think of it -- what He bore for me, that burning. Then secondly, the full assurance of faith would be that I have unbounded confidence in Him and His finished work.

F.W. It is a new and living way.

G.R.C. Quite so. It is new in contrast to the old. The old way of approach to God was under the terms of the law; it was dead. But now we have a new way, and it is a living way. Of course, the word "living" involves the Holy Spirit, for the power of entry lies in the Spirit.

Ques. Does the new and living way indicate the

greatness of what there is in verse 3 of Hebrews 8, "that this one also should have something which he may offer"? What had gone before was not sufficient.

G.R.C. No; and yet what had gone before affords remarkable instruction. In one sense there is contrast; but in another sense typical teaching. The types are written to give us an idea of what our cleansing or purification involved for Christ. And as that enters into our souls, and we accept it, we get a true heart. So there is the true heart; but, on the other hand, the full assurance of faith. I have confidence in the Lord Jesus, and in His finished work. That is the full assurance of faith. I have unbounded confidence in Him; and therefore if I have not boldness for entering the holiest, I am casting a slight on Him and His great work.

Rem. All that process in the soul can be gone through quickly.

G.R.C. Normally it is gone through at conversion. You go into it more deeply as time goes on; nevertheless a truly converted man would have a true heart and full assurance of faith. I have no doubt that this marked Paul.

Rem. I was only thinking of defilement coming in and my being hindered.

G.R.C. Things may come in to hinder, and we will come to that; but the first thing is to see that this is normal christianity -- a true heart and full assurance of faith. But Colossians shows that you may get turned aside from that; and so it says, "if indeed ye abide in the faith founded and firm, and not moved away from the hope of the glad tidings", Colossians 1:23. The glad tidings would give a man a true heart, and full assurance of faith; but we are to abide in the

faith founded and firm. And then things, of course, get deeper and deeper with us. We understand more and more what a true heart means -- in self judgment; and we value more and more Christ and His completed work.

A.J.D. So Saul of Tarsus immediately preached Jesus as the Son of God, involving a wholly new world opening up to him, to which he had access.

G.R.C. I would say that the man who preached in the synagogue Jesus, that He is the Son of God, had a true heart and full assurance of faith, and knew what the holiest was.

J.R.H. Would this link with what we have in the following chapter in Hebrews? "But without faith it is impossible to please him. For he that draws near to God must believe that he is", Hebrews 11:6.

G.R.C. That would fit in with what we are saying. The qualification on our side is a true heart and full assurance of faith. And the glad tidings, rightly accepted, puts us into possession of those two things. They deepen with us, and we are to abide in the faith of the glad tidings.

Ques. Would it be right to say that the section does not deal with state of soul, but with the unassailable right of every Christian?

G.R.C. I think if you come to state of soul it is another matter. We may allow things which hinder communion, but we have to go to other types for that. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" 1 John 1:9. That would link with the bringing of the sin offerings in the early part of Leviticus. We have to make confession continually, but the provision is there. It says time and again in

Leviticus 4, "It shall be forgiven him"; there is no question of the thing remaining. The sacrifice of Christ is available as a remedy for every failure which involves loss of communion. Each such experience, if rightly taken up with God, would deepen the whole matter of the true heart and the full assurance of faith. And then there is the laver where we need to wash our hands and feet. The priests washed their hands and feet at the laver before serving. But this is not the laver here.

J.A.P. Is Romans 5:1 confirmatory of what you are saying, in that faith comes first? "Therefore having been justified on the principle of faith, we have peace towards God through our Lord Jesus Christ; by whom we have also access by faith into this favour in which we stand, and we boast in hope of the glory of God". Is that a similar thought, or does Hebrews 10 go further than that?

G.R.C. It is a similar idea, and helps as showing that the immediate result of accepting the gospel is access by faith into favour. That is as far as Romans takes us. Romans generally is not so much occupied with our going in. It is occupied with God coming out. And that is why it presents justification. Justification is connected with God coming out; sanctification with man going in. Hebrews deals with sanctification; but the same work which justifies us also sanctifies us. Hebrews is developing the sanctification side to encourage us to go in. Romans just touches it, that we have access by faith, but does not develop it. And so in Romans 3 Christ is set forth a mercy-seat. It is a question of the mercy-seat from the standpoint of God coming out. God has manifested His righteousness as "towards all, and upon all those who believe".

It is God coming out to where we were: "in our sins" -- with His righteousness, and showing forth Christ as a mercy-seat. So we can look into heaven; but it is not a question there of our going in, as Hebrews would suggest, but God coming out. God comes out to justify us, and to clear us of our guilt; but Hebrews shows us that the same work which justifies us has sanctified us -- made us entirely fit to go in.

Ques. Is that the meaning of the word 'boldness'?

G.R.C. Yes, it is a question of the apprehension of the work of Christ. We may not know how little we have apprehended it. We do not know much of the gospel yet, dear brethren, otherwise we would know more of the holiest.

Ques. I was wondering why we are so slow to apprehend, and go in, and see what God has provided for our approach.

G.R.C. We have so little apprehended the gospel -- the magnificence of it! The greatness of Christ and the greatness of His offering -- how little these are understood by us!

Rem. That has made us fit, if we have accepted it with a true heart.

G.R.C. Well, that gives us boldness. There must, of course, be a work of God in our souls. "For both he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one", Hebrews 2:11. It involves the relationship, the kindred; but typically it involved also that they were sacrificially before God on the same basis as Aaron. Aaron and his sons laid their hands upon the burnt offering, the sin offering and the ram of consecration. That is, Christ has gone in, and is before God now on a basis upon which He can take us in with Him. So that we are before God on the same footing.

J.B. "For he received from God the Father honour and glory, such a voice being uttered to him by the excellent glory: This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight; and this voice we heard uttered from heaven, being with him on the holy mountain", 2 Peter 1:17 - 18. Such a one as Peter seeing this, and being there, would encourage us, even after his departure, to avail ourselves of the same privilege.

G.R.C. Yes. I think what Peter brings out as to the holy mount helps us to what we are to contemplate in the holiest.

J.A.P. You sail there was a difference between Romans and Hebrews in the teaching, and I think you said sanctification is brought forward in Hebrews. What do you mean by that? Many of us do not understand that.

G.R.C. I think justification relates to our need. We were guilty, and God comes out and justifies us. That is what we need -- in the place of our need and guilt; and it is based on the same work, because He has set forth Christ Jesus as a mercy-seat, through faith in His blood. It is the very same work. But Hebrews shows us that that work has not only cleared us of all guilt, but has also cleansed us from all defilement, and fitted us in every way for the presence of God; and that is sanctification. Sanctification involves that we are fitted for the sanctuary.

F.W. I would like to ask, in relation to our bodies being washed, whether that would be the same as in John 13 -- "Ye are clean"? The work has been effected once and for all, so that, knowing that we are clean in God's sight, we would seek to keep clean in a practical way.

G.R.C. I think the note here confirms that. The washing here is not the washing of the hands and feet at the laver. It is the washing of the body -- the whole man; and in the type that took place once for all, in the sanctification of the priests. The very first act of sanctification was that Moses bathed Aaron and his sons with water. Now that is what is in mind. It bears on what was said to Peter: "What God has cleansed", Acts 10:15. It is an element of the gospel.

Rem. I think you said that, in entering the holy of holies, we are not exactly told in this scripture what we do there. Sometimes we relegate this thought only to prayer. Do you not think that entering the holy of holies with a purely meditative spirit, just to be there, not necessarily praying for a few moments and then stopping, but just remaining there to get some impressions of Divine Persons, is really in mind here?

G.R.C. That is more the thought of it. I do not think the holiest is the place of prayer. Prayer is at the incense altar; and at the burnt offering altar, too. Service generally is at those altars; we serve at those altars as belonging to the inside place -- in the light of the inside place as in spirit in the inside place. I mean that, using the type, the service is at the altars; but contemplation, adoration, and so on, belong to the holiest of all. But for Christians the veil is no barrier. All service should be carried out in the light and joy of the holiest.

J.R.H. Would you say the ark of the covenant is the great Object in view in the holiest?

G.R.C. That is a great matter -- the ark of the covenant. But the One who sits between the cherubim, and who has shone forth, is perhaps the greatest, "thou that sittest between the cherubim,

shine forth", Psalm 80:1. Think of being in the presence of God as shining forth! That is what is in the first chapter of this epistle. The Son is the effulgence of God's glory and the expression of His substance. Think of being in the presence of such an One!

Ques. Would it be right to say that in the holy of holies no word was ever spoken?

G.R.C. I would not like to think that we do not speak there, although it is not exactly speaking in the way of service. Moses went in to speak with Him. That was in the holiest. What was true in the Old Testament of Moses only, is true of us in a far greater way than Moses ever knew it. He was only dealing with the type, although God was there, of course, in the tabernacle of old. But we have the real thing, the true tabernacle. It says that Moses went in to speak "with Him", not merely to speak to Him. He did not expect it to be a one-way conversation. He went in to speak with Him; but when he went in to speak with Him, it says, "he heard the voice speaking to him from off the mercy-seat", Numbers 7:89. The holiest is a marvellous place!

J.R.H. What about David going in and sitting before Jehovah?

G.R.C. I think that bears on it. We can be in the holiest restfully. I believe sitting and prostration both mark the holiest. The elders in Revelation were sitting, and at times they were prostrate. I believe that is what marks the holiest; on the one side we are restful in the presence of supreme greatness and glory; but on the other hand, as fresh impressions of glory enter into our souls, we are prostrate.

A.J.D. Just to be there in holiness and without

blame! It is a great thing to be restful in such a place, is it not?

G.R.C. We could not be there unless that were so. So in Colossians it says, "to present you holy and unblamable and irreproachable before it", Colossians 1:22. Think of being in the presence of "The Fulness"! The Fulness involves the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All the Fulness of the Godhead dwells in Christ bodily; and we are there holy and unblamable and irreproachable before the Fulness.

Ques. In Psalm 100:2 it says, "Serve Jehovah with joy: come before his presence with exultation". Would you tell us the difference between exultation and prostration?

G.R.C. I do not think we could be in such a blessed place without exultation; but this in no wise conflicts with the idea of prostration. In the doxology in Jude 24, it says, "But to him that is able to keep you without stumbling, and to set you with exultation blameless before his glory". That is the Divine side of it -- Divine exultation, showing the joy God has in having us before Him. "... to the only God our Saviour, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, might, and authority, from before the whole age, and now, and to all the ages. Amen". That is the worship of a man who is in the holiest.

C.D. Would exultation be supported by Psalm 45:15? "With joy and gladness shall they be brought; they shall enter into the king's palace".

G.R.C. That would be a similar idea. There it is the king's palace. It does not go so far as the holiest. But it is the idea of exultation.

Ques. Would it be right to think of the end of Psalm 24 as acclamation? "Lift up your heads. Ye

gates; yea, lift up, ye everlasting doors, and the king of glory shall come in".

G.R.C. Oh yes. That is Christ going in. But then He goes in as Jehovah of hosts, so that hosts are linked with Him.

J.A.P. The verse you refer to in Numbers is very interesting; perhaps it should be read. "And when Moses went into the tent of meeting to speak with Him, then he heard the voice speaking to him from off the mercy-seat which was upon the ark of testimony, from between the two cherubim; and he spoke to Him", Numbers 7:89.

G.R.C. Beautiful, is it not, to think that in such an exalted place there can be such communications of holy intimacy? Moses goes in to speak with Him. Think of him having such a conversation, speaking with God -- not a one-way conversation! And God took the initiative; God spoke to him. Think of how God would take the opportunity to speak to us as we enter His presence! And the voice spoke "from between the two cherubim", Numbers 7:89. The ark, speaking of the type, is the great piece of furniture in the holiest, and refers to Christ as the Centre of the system, the One from whom all the system takes character. He Himself being also the mercy-seat, and the cherubim overshadowing, the whole is a type of Christ. And there is the blood upon the mercy-seat. But then what is greater than that is that there is the One who sits between the cherubim; and He shines forth. "For I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy-seat", Leviticus 16:2. That is what is involved, I think, in "the effulgence of his glory and the expression of his substance", Hebrews 1:3. We come into the holiest in the appreciation of Him as the ark, and

supported by Him as the great Priest; then we apprehend Him as the effulgence of God's glory, and the expression of His substance. We have gone through the veil.

T.L.S. Is there any link with John 17 in all this?

G.R.C. John 17 is a remarkable link, because we can see allusions there to both altars and to the holiest. The Lord Jesus says, "I have glorified thee on the earth, I have completed the work which thou gavest me that I should do it", John 17:4. That links with the burnt offering altar. But the prayer as a whole is at the incense altar. You can tell that by the way He refers to His own. He does not refer to them as having any natural or sinful origin; "They were thine, and thou gavest them me", verse 6. It is the view you get at the golden altar where all around are the boards covered with gold -- the saints according to purpose. Then He says, "Father, as to those whom thou hast given me, I desire that where I am they also may be with me, that they may behold my glory which thou hast given me". I would say that that is the Lord's way of referring to the holiest and our place within the veil.

Rem. He says, "Sanctify them by the truth: thy word is truth", John 17:17.

G.R.C. That, of course, shows how we need the ministry: "Thy word is truth". Sanctification by truth means that we have come into the thing intelligently. According to this epistle we are "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all", Hebrews 10:10. That is the Divine side. Then, as to practical sanctification, we are sanctified in the Spirit, as both Paul and Peter tell us. But to be in the matter intelligently -- and that is where growth would come in --

we are sanctified by truth. Let us love it more.

J.R.H. Would not the truth in John 17 involve Paul's ministry?

G.R.C. That is just what it does involve; and the work of ministry generally -- "until we all arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ", Ephesians 4:13. It is a question of arriving at full growth in regard to that which we are able to contemplate in the holiest; but we do not wait for full growth to go in. The moment we truly receive the gospel, the holiest is open to us.

J.R.H. And that is encouragement for the youngest believer.

J.B. In 2 Corinthians 12 Paul says, "I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago, (whether in the body I know not, or out of the body I know not, God knows;) such a one caught up to the third heaven". Would that be like the holiest?

G.R.C. I would not like to speak too definitely, but there may be some link between the holiest and the third heaven. The holy of holies was the third part of the divine system -- the innermost part -- and the third heaven would refer to the highest elevation to which the creature can go. But, of course, 2 Corinthians 12 refers to Paul being caught up there. We are referring to what is more normal to christianity, whereas that is special. He did not know whether he was in the body or not. I am not saying that we should rule out such things, but he only speaks of it as happening fourteen years ago. He does not say that it happened more than once. But he does say, "For whether we are beside ourselves, it is to God", 2 Corinthians 5:13,

as though he was often beside himself. In fact, whenever he was free from other matters -- the burdens of the testimony and the like -- he was beside himself to God, which would I think link with entering the holiest in the way of which we are speaking.

F.K.C. Ecstasy does not seem to be common with us.

G.R.C. The Spirit is dwelling in us, and we should leave ourselves open for special things. But what we are speaking of now is normal, every-day christianity; the marvellousness of it! One feels one has only just begun to touch what life is according to God.

T.L.S. Would this help in the understanding and consideration of complete and final thoughts?

G.R.C. I doubt whether we ever receive the impress of the Divine mind in connection with completed thoughts except in the holiest. We can read them in scripture, and get them into our natural minds; but I believe it is in the holiest that we get impressions from God Himself as to His own thoughts. It says of Moses, as we have been noticing, that he heard a voice from off the mercy-seat speaking to him. Now have we heard that? Have we heard God unfolding His thoughts to us?

Rem. The truth becomes living to us then!

Ques. Moses says, "and we do not know with what we must serve Jehovah, until we come there", Exodus 10:26. I wondered if that referred to what you have been speaking of -- the service at the altars, or the holiest?

G.R.C. He is speaking before they left Egypt. He would be referring to the service at the altars. The holiest is not exactly the place of service. We must not separate things too much in christianity, because

we belong to the holiest and the veil forms no barrier for us; and we take up our service in the full light of the holiest. Nevertheless we have to distinguish; and the holiest is not exactly the place of service. You are there to speak with God, and to hear what He has to say. It is restful contemplation and adoration.

Ques. Is what we are speaking about connected with the individual?

G.R.C. Yes, but we must not limit the holiest to the individual side, because whatever we enjoy individually is enjoyed more in the assembly. But the primary point here is what is continuous, and he follows it by saying, "not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together", Hebrews 10:25. But one feature of a man who habituates the holiest is that he will never absent himself from the assembly, because he knows that all he has enjoyed in the holiest will be confirmed and developed in a greater way in his soul when he is in the assembly.

E.B. In 2 Chronicles 5:14 we have the references to the priests not being able to stand to do their service. I wondered if we may reach that point when we are together -- that we may have nothing to say.

G.R.C. Yes, J.N.D. says in his hymn, "Voice by voice in silence fails". There may come times in the worship when the prostration of soul is such that for a brief time silence prevails. But then the public service must go on, because it is due to God -- "Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me", Psalm 50:23. It is due, before angels and men, that God should be vocally praised in the assembly. So that the Spirit would never lead us to lapse into a permanent silence. The very fact that we reach a point where silence must prevail, would only lead to a greater burst of

praise -- greater response to God from all our hearts.

Rem. We have the expression "Let us" three times in this chapter. Does this indicate the filling out of christianity from the standpoint of the holy of holies?

G.R.C. It shows that while we can take this up in our personal relations, and our household relations, yet no one who takes up this privilege isolates himself. We enter the holiest as having love to all the saints.

Ques. So in coming to the morning meeting on Lord's Day, should we bring the holiest with us?

G.R.C. I think we should come to the morning meeting as those who have been in the holiest. If it is so, we shall, as the service proceeds, have a remarkable experience of what the holiest is from the collective standpoint.

A.J.D. Would we see the expression in the assembly of what was observed in the holiest -- God known in the assembly and the glory that belongs to Him?

G.R.C. In the assembly we are privileged to know the immediate presence of God, and all that we can touch individually in entering the holiest takes on a greater aspect when we enter the presence of God in assembly service. So you see, Ephesians refers to our being seated. In Hebrews it is the exhortation to enter, "let us approach"; and that is to govern us day by day. But in assembly, it is possible, through the quickening power of God, for persons to experience what it is to be sitting down together there -- "and has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus", Ephesians 2:6. Now that brings up another point. What is prominent in Hebrews is "the holies". You will notice that "holy of" is in brackets -- it is not in the original; whereas in Ephesians it is "the heavenlies". But the term

"heavenlies" is used once -- in Hebrews 9:23. "It was necessary then that the figurative representations of the things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with sacrifices better than these". "The heavenly things" might be translated "the heavenlies"; it is the very same word as used in Ephesians -- "the heavenlies themselves with sacrifices better than these". So that the heavenlies and the holies are identical; but Hebrews is stressing the holiness of God's presence, and bringing out the greatness and sacrifice of Christ which has fitted us for such a holy place. Ephesians, which is viewing things from the standpoint of purpose, stresses that it is the heavenlies. It does not stress the holiness of it, but the heavenliness of it -- elevation.

J.S. And yet the same kind of language is brought forward in Ephesians. I was impressed with it. Paul says in chapter 3 verse 12, "in whom we have boldness and access in confidence by the faith of him".

G.R.C. I would say that is the collective view of the holiest. It is what is our portion in the assembly. That chapter is full of the assembly -- God showing to principalities and authorities in the heavenlies, His wisdom, through the assembly. And the climax of the whole matter is "Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access in confidence by the faith of him". It is the assembly as such now, having access to God in full revelation and in a most glorious way, and coming into the presence of God in His glory and majesty with a boldness which angels will never know. Angels have no comparable access; and that is how the principalities and authorities in the heavenlies

learn. They observe the functioning of the assembly.

J.R.H. You said that entrance into the holiest is not a matter of growth; and yet can there be real spiritual growth apart from the entering into the holiest?

G.R.C. No, I believe that is the way of growth. If we habituate ourselves to the holiest, and receive Divine communications -- whether we are thinking of the matter individually or assembly wise -- there is nothing which so contributes to our growth.

A.J.D. So this matter of access at all times is a most important matter for us to get thoroughly embedded into our spiritual beings, so that we might frequent that place.

G.R.C. It is the way to begin the day. Do not begin the day asking for your needs to be met. Begin the day by going right into the holiest, where you are immediately set free from every thought of self and your own interests. You are in the presence of God, and you begin the day in the presence of God with His outlook on the whole of His interests in heaven and earth.

Rem. Do not the Lord's words, as Man, "He wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the instructed", Isaiah 50:4, indicate that, as Man, He moved that way Himself.

G.R.C. I believe the way to begin and end the day is to go straight into the holiest. When I say end the day, I do not mean just before we go to bed.

J.R.H. Making it a matter of habit. You used an expression, in England, as to Judah being married to the sanctuary. You spoke about Paul being married to the sanctuary.

G.R.C. If we habituated the holiest, I am sure

we would be married, in that sense, to nothing else. That is, the sanctuary would be our main concern in life.

J.P. One would like to get clear on these three expressions; the matter of the greatness, the holiest and the reference to the fulness in Colossians. Did I understand you to say that these are related thoughts?

G.R.C. The holiest stresses that it is the most holy place in the universe -- it is the very presence of God. But the other two thoughts -- the greatness and the fulness -- both enter into the matter. Hebrews stresses the greatness and Colossians the fulness. I believe if we enter the holiest our spirits will be impressed by both.

G.H.P. Everything of self, or what is natural, is left outside.

G.R.C. That would be involved in going through the veil. Nothing which was dealt with in the death of Christ can enter there. There were cherubim in the veil; nothing of the flesh can pass the veil. I may endeavour to enter the holiest, but nothing can pass the veil which was dealt with in the death of Christ. And, if I have got a true heart, there will not be anything.

J.McK. I wanted to enquire as to the remark you made earlier as to what we see in the holiest -- the Godhead glory. Does that go beyond what we have in Hebrews 2:9, "but we see Jesus"?

G.R.C. The second chapter has in view Jesus as the great High Priest. "Crowned with glory and honour", would be like Aaron clothed in the garment of glory and beauty, with a holy turban upon his head. "But we see Jesus, who was made some little inferior to angels on account of the suffering

of death" is a question of the priesthood and the offering of Himself -- the suffering of death -- and we see that He has gone in. It is not so great as chapter one, where it says, "who being the effulgence of his glory and the expression of his substance". That is what is involved in the One who sits between the cherubim shining forth. It is the shining forth of God. So that, in the holiest, we are not so much occupied with the official glories of Christ, great as they are. We have got the benefit of them. We have got the benefit of His lordship, and His priesthood; but now we are engaged with Himself -- the effulgence of God's glory and the expression of His substance. It is God shining forth; it is a marvellous thing to be in the presence of God thus. In Christ's present, glorified bodily condition, the glory of God is shining forth radiantly. Not, of course, that we see face to face yet, as Paul says elsewhere. We always have to remember that. Nevertheless what we can behold by the Spirit is marvellous.

Ques. Is the access individual or collective?

G.R.C. In Ephesians it is collective, "in whom we have boldness and access in confidence".

Ques. Would being in the holiest be more than apprehending God in the incarnation?

G.R.C. The gospels were written by men who habituated the holiest. And they bring the glories of what they have seen of Christ in the holiest to bear upon what they had seen down here.

G.A.S. So in the holiest you participate in the thoughts of God, do you not? You share His delight in Christ, and His thoughts as to the assembly.

G.R.C. Quite so. I think that when it speaks of access it is referring to what we have from the Divine

side. God has given us access; but the word "let us approach" is to encourage us to avail ourselves of it.

Ques. How do we encourage one another in this matter?

G.R.C. You are referring to verse 25, "but encouraging one another, and by so much the more as ye see the day drawing near". The best way to encourage one another is to go in yourself, and to report how good it is! The first thing however is, "Let us hold fast the confession of the hope"; that is, as you come out from the holiest. What you have enjoyed there is still, as to actuality, in hope.

Rem. Did not Moses' face shine?

G.R.C. Moses' face shone, and ours should shine. That is the point in Corinthians where there is another reference to the holiest -- "But we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image". That is another view of the holiest. There it emphasises its effect on us. Colossians is what it means to the Fulness; Hebrews is what it means to us; but Corinthians gives its transforming effect.

Ques. Psalm 73:17 says, "Until I went into the sanctuaries of God; then understood I their end". What is the difference between the sanctuaries and the holiest?

G.R.C. The sanctuaries refer to the whole system, including the holiest. Not that Asaph could go into the holiest; but it should encourage us in our day, of course, for the scriptures were written for our instruction. The sanctuaries of God would refer to the court, the holy place, and the holiest; and you learn something about God and His ways in all of them, because there it is a question of His ways. In the

court you get instruction as to His ways at the burnt offering altar; in the holy place you get further instruction; but the greatest place of instruction is the holiest itself.

F.K.C. The verse you refer to, "thou that sittest between the cherubim, shine forth", Psalm 80:1, is in that very section of the psalms -- one of the psalms of Asaph.

G.R.C. Asaph was a remarkably intelligent man.

J.A.P. "If anyone speak -- as oracles of God", 1 Peter 4:11. Does that involve that he must be in the holiest to get the word?

G.R.C. I would say so. I would say the oracles of God are what one hears in the holiest.

Ques. Do the exercises of Romans 7 and 8 enter into this matter of a true heart? Some of us are challenged in fact as to whether we do have a true heart.

G.R.C. They do. That is where we learn ourselves, and learn that we are but dust and ashes and come to a proper appreciation of the great offering of Christ. It is that which gives us a true heart.

GREATNESS (5) -- SERVICE

Hebrews 12:28 - 29; Hebrews 13:10 - 17; Hebrews 2:11 - 13

G.R.C. These passages deal with divine service. Until now we have been engaged with the great High Priest and His service -- that which He alone could carry out; but these passages contemplate the saints serving. The word 'serve' in chapter 12: 28 means priestly service; it is one of the words sometimes translated 'worship'. It is so translated in chapter 9: 14, "how much rather shall the blood of the Christ, who by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God, purify your conscience from dead works to worship the living God". This is worship in the sense of public priestly service. From that standpoint everything we do in public service Godward -- giving thanks, singing, or whatever we do -- is part of the worship. The other word for worship, in John 4, involves adoration or prostration of soul. And of course the two should never be separated. The Lord Jesus says in the temptations, "Thou shalt do homage" -- that is the word for adoration -- "to the Lord thy God, and him alone shalt thou serve" -- that is the word for priestly service -- Matthew 4:10. Both words, therefore, occur in that verse; and the verse shows that they are inseparably connected. So, as I say, these passages deal with the saints serving as priests. And the order in which they come, that is chapters 12 and 13 following chapter 10, indicates what is the truth, that habitual entrance into the holiest underlies acceptable service. It enables us to take up intelligently the

public, priestly service of God. And we are to do so as indicated here -- with reverence and godly fear. Then chapter 13 indicates the position of the service of God, that this priestly service is carried on outside the camp. There is much in the camp which professes to be the service of God, but the true service of God can only proceed outside the camp. After showing that position, it goes on, "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise continually to God, that is, the fruit of the lips confessing his name". This shows that the service is vocal. The fruit of the lips conveys what is vocal. Then follows the "doing good and communicating of your substance... for with such sacrifices God is well pleased". These activities are continuous. Just as of old there was the continual burnt offering and the continual incense, so now there is to be the continual service maintained. But in chapter 2 we have the greatest form of the service, that is, in the assembly; the Lord Himself directing everything in it, like the king of old under whose direction the singers served 1 Chronicles 25. So it says, "in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises".

F.W. Is the kingdom used for Christ's glory?

G.R.C. The kingdom is a very great matter. It goes into eternity. God Himself is the great King, and I think that in the holiest we get an outlook on a kingdom which cannot be shaken. We have it stated in this chapter in certain words, verses 22 and onward; but when we are in the holiest with God, we have an outlook with Him over this divine realm of which He is the Centre. There we find out what these things really mean -- mount Zion; the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem; myriads of angels,

the universal gathering; the assembly of the firstborn; God judge of all; the spirits of just men made perfect; Jesus, mediator of a new covenant; the blood of sprinkling speaking better than Abel. It implies that we are with God at the centre, and we are looking out on the vast range of things of which He is the Centre -- His kingdom.

J.P. Did you say that true service can only be carried out from impressions received in the holiest?

G.R.C. That is what I believe. What do you think?

J.P. It is a very important matter. Would you say more?

G.R.C. Well, I think there may be the idea in some of our minds -- one has had it oneself -- that in our approach, we are to serve at the altar of burnt offering, and then to serve at the incense altar, and then we reach the holiest. That is not the way the truth is presented. We come by way of those altars -- but not as serving. We come by way of those altars; they remind us of how Christ has served. Entrance into the holiest does not depend on our service at all; it depends on Christ's service, what He alone could do. So that the first thing in approach is to pass right through. It is of the utmost importance to understand that our entry into the holiest does not depend upon our service at all: it depends upon Christ and the offering of Himself, and upon His present service of help and intercession. So we are to go right in, as having a true heart and full assurance of faith. And having gone in to God, and being before Him, we can take up the service acceptably. We know how to pray and we know how to praise, once we have been in the holiest. We need a fresh

touch of the holiest continually to keep our prayers and our praises fresh.

J.P. It is very affecting. I believe if we understood it more there would be an entirely different tone to our service, not only assemblywise, but, would you say, householdly too?

G.R.C. I would, because what is in mind is this continual service. Our personal and household approach to God, if we are right, will always begin with direct entrance into the holiest.

J.H. Do you think that from his experience on the holy mount Peter may have received rich impressions as to the kingdom not to be shaken?

G.R.C. I am sure that is right. And we receive rich impressions in the holiest.

C.D. You have spoken of the holiest being available to one as soon as he is converted, and I was wondering whether the thief got a sight of it when he says, "Remember me, Lord, when thou comest in thy kingdom", Luke 23:42?

G.R.C. It could hardly be the holiest there. But light had dawned upon his soul that there was a kingdom of which the suffering One at his side was the Centre.

Ques. Why is the kingdom brought in here? Has it to do with moral order?

G.R.C. In one sense there is nothing greater than the kingdom. It is eternal. God Himself is the great King, as it says here -- the Judge of all. In this passage it does not mean Judge of all merely as acting against evil. Any true king, even in an earthly sense, is the judge of his kingdom. He is the final arbitrator in all matters of justice; the upholder, in other words, of what is right. And that is the idea -- God is the

Centre, the Judge of all; this ensures that everything in that kingdom is in perfect equity.

F.K.C. What about the kingdom in 1 Corinthians 15? Does that which you have in mind go through to eternity?

G.R.C. Yes. It says, "then the end, when he gives up the kingdom to him who is God and Father", 1 Corinthians 15:24. Then later it says that He is placed in subjection, that God may be all in all. Later still in the chapter it says, "flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom", verse 50, shewing that, in its final setting, the kingdom of God is outside of flesh and blood conditions.

J.R.H. Would the reference, "receiving a kingdom not to be shaken", show that this kingdom really goes beyond the present heavens and earth?

G.R.C. It is eternal in character, and embraces heaven and earth. The Jews looked forward to an earthly kingdom, but the kingdom of God embraces heaven and earth. So the shaking in verse 26 includes heaven -- "Yet once will I shake not only the earth, but also the heaven". So that everything is going to be shaken, in heaven and earth, that God may rule over all.

Rem. We are brought into this kingdom which cannot be shaken.

G.R.C. That is right. It will be manifested in the present heaven and the present earth as the vindication of Christ and of God; but it takes its final form in the new heavens and the new earth. The city of the great King is still there. "And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband", Revelation 21:2.

T.L.S. Do you think it suggests, too, that we are brought into a realm of great resources, and that we have plenty to carry on with in the service of God?

G.R.C. I am sure that would be one feature of the kingdom. And we have come to it, you see. Some may think, as we read this passage, How have I come to it? I have not much realisation of it. That is because you have not been in the holiest. If you are in the holiest, you are in the presence of the One who is the Centre of this great realm of things; the One who calls the things that be not as though they were. It is all complete to Him; and if you are with Him in the holiest it becomes complete to you. The more we habituate ourselves to being there, the more we shall become accustomed to looking out on this vast realm of glory.

W.T.L. Would it have the effect in that way of stabilizing us as to the service of God?

G.R.C. That is just it -- "receiving a kingdom not to be shaken"; we are already receiving it. But we are receiving it vitally as we habituate ourselves to coming into the holiest, and being with God; so that we are with Him in His outlook. We realize then that we have come "to mount Zion; and to the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem; and to myriads of angels, the universal gathering; and to the assembly of the first-born who are registered in heaven; and to God, judge of all". We are in His presence. And then, "and to the spirits of just men made perfect". They could not be made perfect without us, it says: we have come to all the Old Testament saints; they are ours. And we have come to, "Jesus, mediator of a new covenant", a covenant which is always fresh -- that is the force of the "new"

there -- "and to the blood of sprinkling" -- the blood of sprinkling affects the whole system. God looks out on a system which in every way has been purified with blood.

C.A.M. In 1 Timothy 1, after referring to his sinnership, Paul says, "Now to the King of the ages, the incorruptible, invisible, only God, honour and glory to the ages of ages. Amen", 1 Timothy 1:17. What a striking way to begin that epistle!

G.R.C. It is. He is dealing there with the house of God, which is the same subject as we are on. It says in the scripture read this morning, "having a great priest over the house of God", Hebrews 10:21. The holiest is the innermost part of the house of God. Paul is dealing, in Timothy, with the public conduct of those who form the house; and therefore he brings out immediately the greatness of the One who dwells in it. He is, "the King of the ages, the incorruptible, invisible, only God". It is the royal residence. And the more we get a sense of the greatness and the majesty, the more we are amazed at the fact that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; and Paul says, I am the chief. We would all gladly take that place if we understood better the majesty and yet the grace of God. The throne is something we might well think about. Isaiah, "saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple", Isaiah 6:1. And the Seraphim were there saying, "Holy, holy, holy". The Trinity is in mind; yet we know the One who occupies the throne. But the point is, it is the throne of God. "Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!" Isaiah 6:3. That was Isaiah's impression. The idea of heaven and earth

had not yet come fully into view, and so he says, "The whole earth is full of his glory". What a view then we should get, if we were thus in the temple, in the holiest -- we who know God's will as to heaven and earth!

A.J.D. Peter in his second epistle says, "but, according to his promise, we wait for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness", 2 Peter 3:13. Is that the thought of the eternal kingdom?

G.R.C. It is the kingdom in its eternal setting. Hebrews, no doubt, has the kingdom in its millennial setting primarily in mind; but then the great items mentioned, such as the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem; myriads of angels, the universal gathering; and the assembly of the firstborn, registered in heaven: all belong to eternity. They are displayed in the world to come, in the millennial reign, but they all belong to eternity, and pass into eternity.

F.W. Would such a kingdom involve coming under the influence of such a blessed King?

G.R.C. That is the idea. God is the King -- "God, judge of all". He is the Centre. He is viewed here as the One who maintains everything in absolute equity, throughout the millennium, but also through all eternity. He is the King. David says, "thou art exalted as Head above all", 1 Chronicles 29:11. The title Head, as applied to God, includes kingship.

G.H.P. Is there any connection between receiving a kingdom, and what it says in Revelation 1:6, "made us a kingdom"?

G.R.C. I believe the verse in Revelation implies that we have part in royalty. It is not simply that we are subjects of the kingdom, but that we have part in

royalty. It says, "and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father". We are a royal priesthood; and that bears on what we are engaged with now, that is, the way we are to function as priests in the light of having received a kingdom which cannot be shaken. If I kneel down to pray, and do not enter the holiest, I begin to think of my needs and of the difficulties of the day before me. But prayer for personal need is not priestly service. But if I have been in the holiest with God, and have had an outlook on the kingdom which cannot be shaken, I begin to pray, not in relation to my things at all, but in relation to His interests, which must go through. I pray for all saints, and for the whole realm of divine interests; and when I come down to my interests, they assume very small proportions. I have a sense, when I reach down to my things, that He will readily care for them.

J.P. Is that the force of the verse at the end of these great lists of things? "See that ye refuse not him that speaks", or, as the footnote reads, 'excusing themselves, declined'. Do you think that in the holiest we will be conscious of a divine communication to us?

G.R.C. I think we would. God speaks from off the mercy-seat, from between the cherubim; it is wonderful to get such communications; they would keep us in movement every day. Earlier in this epistle it says, "Today, if ye will hear his voice", Hebrews 4:7. God has got something to say today, not simply something to say to me about my state. He may have something to say about that; but He has something to say to me about His great realm of things to keep me in movement. And it is, "today, if ye will hear his voice".

Ques. Does the assembly of the firstborn refer to the kind of persons there?

G.R.C. Yes. They are really the nobility, the highest ranking persons in this great kingdom.

Ques. In 1 Corinthians 4, Paul says, "I would that ye reigned", 1 Corinthians 4:8. Has this in mind the kingdom?

G.R.C. Yes. Those who are marked by royalty now suffer. The imperial colour is purple. The Lord was given a purple robe in the gospel of Mark. It was a purple cloth which covered the altar of burnt offering; this shows that the imperial colour, in testimony, is suffering. A man who is capable of suffering for God now, proves that he is a royal personage; the power and dignity of a king are with him. So it says, "and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father", Revelation 1:6. Royalty is involved in that. It is the suffering priesthood.

C.A.M. Is it not remarkable that the Holy Spirit says that Lydia was a seller of purple in the city of Thyatira, and she was now in Philippi. I wondered if that was a reference to the fact that royalty was going to characterise all the happenings of that chapter?

G.R.C. It is remarkable because in Revelation Thyatira is connected with the system which claims the purple. The Pope wears the triple crown, as the king of kings in place of Christ, assuming to be the Vicar of Christ. It is a terrible assumption. But, as you say, the purple, according to God, belonged to Philippi where Paul was in prison; and the temple service was going on in prison.

Ques. Does Psalm 48 help us in that, "Beautiful in elevation, the joy of the whole earth, is Mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great

king". Is the City characterised by the King Himself?

G.R.C. The Psalm begins, "Great is Jehovah, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the hill of his holiness". That is what marks the city of our God.

J.B. I would like you to open up what is meant in 1 Corinthians 15 by the expression, "that God may be all in all".

G.R.C. In the millennial reign Christ's official glories will be in great prominence. The title, 'the Christ', means that He fills every office, and magnifies every office which God has established; because the anointing covers the prophet, priest and king; and His official glories will, as I say, be very prominent in the world to come. It is the great day of Christ's vindication. But, before the eternal state, He gives up the kingdom to Him who is God and Father; that is the mediatorial kingdom. His mediatorship must continue; but the mediatorial kingdom is given up. The idea of the mediatorial kingdom is that it is in the hands of a Man; and a Man, speaking with all reverence, is prominent in His official glories. But in the eternal conditions those glories are allowed to recede. I am not saying they are forgotten; but they are no longer in prominence. So in Revelation it says, "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it", Revelation 20:11. It does not say who He is. It does not say He is the Christ -- no official glory is mentioned. It is just One sitting on it. "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and heaven fled, and place was not found for them". It is the throne of God; and although we know who the Sitter on the throne is, it does not tell us. We know who it must be, because

it speaks of His face. It must be Jesus who is sitting there; but He is sitting there as representative of God, as we may say. Similarly in Revelation 21:5 we know who the Occupant of the throne is; but He is speaking as God. It is a question of God -- God known as the great King.

Ques. Is that the kingdom which Daniel speaks of, "and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed", Daniel 7:14?

G.R.C. The kingdom is a continuous matter from the time of its establishment, and has its phases. There is the mediatorial phase in the millennium, and then the eternal phase. At the present time it is in mystery. But I would think that it is primarily the mediatorial kingdom which is in mind in Daniel. Perhaps you would read the verse.

Rem. "And in the days of these kings shall the God of the heavens set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed", Daniel 2:44.

G.R.C. It is a remarkable passage. It is in the days of the Gentile kings that God sets up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, but which goes on forever. What would primarily be in mind would be its present form, in mystery; and then the mediatorial kingdom. A stone cut out without hands strikes the feet of the image, and all the metals and materials which compose the image become as chaff in the summer threshing floor; and the stone becomes a great mountain, and fills the earth. That refers to Christ coming and establishing the direct rule of God in the earth in place of His indirect rule through the Gentile empires. He will come to establish the direct rule, which in the first instance, will be the millennial kingdom. But then He gives up that kingdom in due

course, and the kingdom takes on its final and eternal character.

Ques. Does 1 Kings 10 help us in these verses? I notice that the service is linked with the kingdom here. The Queen of Sheba says, "Happy are thy men! happy are these thy servants".

G.R.C. That would bear specially on our last scriptures as to what goes on in the assembly. She saw, typically, the assembly ordered under King Solomon; and, according to Ephesians 3, the principalities and authorities in the heavenlies see the ordering of God in the assembly under her glorious Head. The Queen of Sheba, an earthly principality, marvelled at the wisdom of the earthly Solomon; and so at the present time heavenly principalities marvel at God's wisdom, seen in the assembly under the headship of Christ.

J.A.P. I was wondering whether the receiving of the kingdom brings in responsibility on our part? It says that David received the kingdom; but then he had to learn the lesson about the due order.

G.R.C. So it says here, "Wherefore let us, receiving a kingdom not to be shaken, have grace, by which let us serve God acceptably with reverence and fear. For also our God is a consuming fire", Hebrews 12:28, 29. God tolerates nothing in His service which is out of keeping with the holiest. Nothing can go through the veil which has been ended judicially in the cross of Christ -- in that great burning. "Our God is a consuming fire"; and we see what that means in the death of Christ. It is not only the burning on the altar. The consuming fire was when the body of the victim was burned outside the camp. A different word used for burning in these two cases. The burning

outside the camp represents the unsparing judgment of God, the victim being reduced to ashes, as is seen in the burning of the red heifer. We should ever keep in mind that God does not spare that which He has brought to an end judicially, at such cost, in the cross of Christ.

J.A.P. So in Leviticus 10, when the two sons of Aaron died, it says, "And Aaron was silent". That state should be with us -- the rebuke of God against all that is of the flesh in the service.

E.M. It is remarkable that at the end of Matthew, the great kingdom gospel, we have the answer to this, the veil of the temple being rent and the earth shaken; and then we have a man that fears greatly.

G.R.C. Very good. And if you think of this continual service, taken up in our private chambers and in our household devotions, it raises the question as to our way in every department of life. We are not priests just on certain occasions: we are priests all the time. So that, as we enter the holiest and take up divine service in a formal way, morning by morning and evening by evening -- I am using the word 'formal' in a right sense: we may enter the holiest at any time during the day when we have a moment to spare, but there are times when we can allot time for approach and service -- it would surely lead us to see to it that all our appointments and habits, personal and household, are in keeping with our God, and in accord with the priesthood.

J.A.P. That is very helpful; and I would like to ask you, do you think it is right for brethren to come to meetings at night without having been in the presence of God? We come from our business and household matters, and some of us may come to the meetings

rather carelessly without having been in the presence of God. What would you say about that?

G.R.C. Well that is the importance of the evening oblation. The continual service which we are speaking about was maintained by the morning and evening oblation -- the continual burnt offering and the continual incense -- see Exodus 29:38, 30: 10. What you are referring to, at the close of the active day, would answer to the evening oblation. In Palestine at sundown, which did not vary much throughout the year, the active day would cease. And at the close of the active day -- between the two evenings -- there was to be the oblation. We need to see where we can fit it in, in our arrangements, for, in modern life, the circumstances of persons differ much. I do not know whether any brother or sister gets through the active day without some sense of humbling. We commence the day in the presence of God, and desire to walk all through the day as those who belong to the holiest. It is a wonderful conception -- to walk through this world as one who belongs to the holiest, whose place is within the veil. We come to the end of the day, and we may feel how many things have happened which are not in keeping. But then, all can be put right before God at that point. The continual burnt offering reminds us of our unchanging acceptance, so that the way is still open into the holiest. And as we enter there, matters of the day are seen according to God; our souls are adjusted; we get fresh impressions of glory, and so the divine service goes on. We can take up afresh then, as free from pressure, the intercession for all saints, and for all men. And thus we are also prepared to make the most of the meditative part of the day, which is really the beginning

of the new day. The day begins in the evening. The day begins with the meditative part, and we cannot make the most of that if we do not observe the evening oblation.

J.H. If we knew about this, do you think there might be more power to affect one another? I was thinking of Luke 11, "And it came to pass as he was in a certain place praying, when he ceased, one of his disciples said to him, Lord, teach us to pray", Luke 11:1.

G.R.C. Quite so. We should indeed affect one another. And I think it would greatly affect our evening meetings. We should not come there burdened with the matters of the day. They would have been settled, and we would have been with God.

W.T.L. What you are saying would not hinder a brother going straight from his work to the meeting, if compelled by necessity, would it?

G.R.C. I was just thinking of that. If one has to do that, he would look for mercy and grace from God to enable him, even if only for a moment, to enter the holiest on his way. We can be quite sure, that, if we come boldly to the throne of grace, we shall receive mercy and find grace for help in such circumstances. The throne of grace is not simply to help me get through my path here; it is to help me in such manner that I am not hindered from going into the holiest. "Let us approach therefore with boldness to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and find grace for seasonable help", Hebrews 4:16. It is a time of need if I have to go straight to a meeting -- a time of very real need. There is grace to enable me, in my spirit, to enter the holiest. And if I have not much time for it, there are brethren who have; and

they are going to help me, by their presence and influence, when I get to the meeting. That is why those who have got time should give time.

A.J.D. So the way into the holiest is always open.

G.R.C. Just so.

Ques. How are you going to fit this in with the glad tidings? How much we need to be helped as to the glad tidings of the glory in power.

G.R.C. That is where royalty comes in. We are a Kingly priesthood, as it says, "But ye are a chosen race, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a people for a possession, that ye might set forth the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness to his wonderful light", 1 Peter 2:9. The only effective preacher is a priest. Paul served God -- that word is priestly service -- in his spirit in the glad tidings of His Son, Romans 1:9. A priest was going forward with the gospel.

H.O.E. Is it not possible to be with God in the active part of the day when we are doing our business? We have the Spirit present with us, and we have proved His help in that way.

G.R.C. The Spirit is with us in all these matters. Even in the discharge of our ordinary obligations, "the righteous requirement of the law should be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to flesh but according to Spirit", Romans 8:4. So that we can walk according to Spirit, and be conscious of His presence all through the active day. And that will help us much. Then, of course, if there are spare moments during the active day, the holiest is open.

J.P. "For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit", Romans 14:17. Does that not give us a

sense of the Spirit with us in maintaining us in righteousness throughout the whole day?

G.R.C. Quite so. The Spirit is with us in our things, to enable us to discharge them in righteousness before God and men, so that there may be no hindrance to our entering the holiest and functioning before God as priests.

J.P. So when we approach the service then, it is a matter of knowing that our service is acceptable? Is not this word 'acceptable' a very important one in our service?

G.R.C. Yes, and it could not be so apart from the Spirit, could it? "Their anointing shall be to them an everlasting priesthood" Exodus 40:15. Everything the priest does is in the power of the anointing.

Ques. I was thinking of the sensitiveness of the Spirit. As we get on our knees there may be something which has been overlooked during the day, but He will bring it before our hearts at the close of the day.

G.R.C. He will. But what do you mean by the close of the day?

Rem. I fully agree with what you say, but it is just an opportunity when the close of the day comes.

G.R.C. What I am concerned about is that we should not leave the service we are speaking of until the time we go to bed. That is too late. The idea of it is, that it is the close of the active day, which in the East was sundown. In this country we cannot link it with actual sundown, but it is the principle of the thing which we should observe. "Let not the sun set upon your wrath", Ephesians 4:26, bears on what you have said. That time of the day is the time to get all these matters settled. If left until bed-time you miss

the evening. You miss the evening of the new day, and the profit of the meditative part, because you have not put things right.

A.J.D. So that the evening oblation is at the end of the active day.

G.R.C. The end of the active day is not just bed-time.

Rem. It is between the two evenings.

G.R.C. That is the point, it is between the two evenings; that means between the close or evening of the active part of one day, and the evening which begins the new day.

F.K.C. With Daniel it speaks of the time of the evening oblation, "whilst I was yet speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, flying swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation", Daniel 9:21. The whole prophetic calendar was really unfolded in that atmosphere.

G.R.C. It is remarkable what divine communications there were at that time, as Daniel was observing the evening oblation.

J.S. You mean, that as soon as we are released from the responsible things which hold us our hearts go to their own home?

G.R.C. That is the idea.

Ques. Did not God say, "evening and morning"?

G.R.C. That is right.

H.B. You will remember that in Acts 10 Peter went up on the housetop to pray. There is a certain deliberateness about his movements, and thus God was free to communicate to him what He was about to do.

G.R.C. Very good. I think sometimes when the

word 'pray' is used, it means the whole matter of the service -- the whole matter of our communion with God. Undoubtedly, as we are speaking now, Peter would enter the holiest. In fact, it says, "an ecstacy came upon him", Acts 10:10.

J.A.P. In our house we have morning reading together at the beginning of the day; but in the evening we do not have reading together in a collective way.

G.R.C. But do you have household prayer?

J.A.P. Not in the evening.

G.R.C. I think you would find it profitable. I admit that in households you have to take up things as you find them. Those with young children have to get grace and wisdom from the Lord to do what is best, and fit things in when it is best. But as soon as the children are old enough to be brought into these things happily, I think it is good for the whole household to be in them. But, until that time, it is a question of arranging things as best one can. But I am sure that, if we give God His portion in this way, we shall get very great gain. It is not a question of a long reading. In fact there is nothing laid down in scripture about reading at all at the time of the oblation. It is good to read something, even a few verses because it gives God an opportunity to speak to us. We are not going to say a lot about it; we are listening to what He would say. And then we speak to Him. We want to hear Him speaking from off the mercy-seat, and we want to speak to Him. Then how good it is, having entered His presence, and thus having His outlook, to pray both morning and evening in relation to His interests. The active day is finished, you see, in your home town, but it is beginning

somewhere else, worldwide. And you are thinking too of government worldwide; not only in the morning, but in the evening.

A.J.D. Is the household held on the basis of sanctification, as we proceed on those lines?

G.R.C. Practical sanctification? I am sure that is so. Coming into God's presence frequently in your own home -- if you do it in spirit and truth -- will put your house in order. You will begin to see that anything inconsistent with God has got to go out.

J.H. Is that not a remark attributed to F.E.R., that if he could have had life over again he would have read less and prayed more. It indicates, not depreciation of the feature of reading, which is good, but an appreciation of the importance of the matter which we are now considering.

G.R.C. I believe that is so. I cannot help feeling that what we are considering now is one of the most important of matters; otherwise, we tend to make christianity simply the meetings. And then the meetings are not what they ought to be. The meetings will never be what they ought to be if we make our christian lives simply the meetings. Our christian life is every day -- "Today if ye will hear his voice".

Ques. Is it important that our young brothers and sisters, and indeed all the sisters, carry out what we are saying, as well as the brothers who have the active responsibility in the meetings? There are many very young in fellowship. Would you not encourage us all to enter the holiest at the end of the active day?

G.R.C. I certainly would. I would greatly encourage the younger brethren to take this up, because some of us have missed many years of it.

Ques. I would like to enquire about a household

where the husband is away. Can the wife carryon in his absence?

G.R.C. I would say so. What do you think?

Ques. I was just inquiring. I wondered about the matter of the wife praying and carrying on the reading.

G.R.C. If the children are young, it is her business to carry on. If she has sons who are committed to the Lord, she would, of course, give them their place as to audible prayer. It depends just how the household is constituted.

Rem. I do not think you can lay too much stress on our entering the holiest, so there may be power with us; that we may get real help in our souls, and not be just merely theoretical.

G.R.C. It is thus you really live. You are living day by day in relation to God -- living by every word of God; and then you can see how assembly service according to chapter 2: 12 would be enriched.

T.L.S. Are we always helped in looking at things from the normal standpoint?

G.R.C. That is the way we are helped. We may find at times that we cannot do all that we would like to do; but let us get the normal idea, and then we will do what we can.

Ques. When Peter and John were going into the temple, it says of the man lying there, "seeing Peter and John about to enter into the temple, asked to receive alms. And Peter, looking steadfastly upon him with John, said, Look on us. And he gave heed to them, expecting to receive something from them. But Peter said, Silver and gold I have not; but what I have, this give I to thee: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazaraean rise up and walk". Is that the

effect and result of having been inside the holiest?

G.R.C. I am sure it is. He could say, "Look on us". What men they were! And we should appear in this world as those who belong to the holiest, and who have come from it.

Rem. "They recognised them that they were with Jesus", Acts 4:13.

Ques. If we resorted more to the holiest, do you think we should have more doxologies -- outbursts of praise to God spontaneously?

G.R.C. I am sure we should. We cannot separate the holiest from praise and priestly service. As in our spirits in the holiest, conscious of the presence of God, we begin to serve. You cannot make rigid separations as in the type. If we enter the holiest and hear His voice, surely there will be an outburst of praise, whether in our household or personal approach. And that is the idea of service at the altar, "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise continually to God, that is, the fruit of the lips", Hebrews 10:15. It is what is expressed with the lips.

A.J.D. So that in taking up our ordinary business matters in the day, as common people, we are priests at the same time.

G.R.C. Exactly. Ques. When John says, "I became in the Spirit on the Lord's day", Revelation 1:10, is that different from what we have in relation to the holiest?

G.R.C. I think it may be something similar. It is viewed as John's own act -- "I became in the Spirit". The Lord says later, "I became dead". That was His own act. John says, "I became in the Spirit on the Lord's day". The Spirit is available for this. It is a question of becoming in Spirit. Of course,

it appears that he was completely abstracted; I do not say we could be quite in the state he was, in our ordinary household devotions. But this book shows that we can enter the holiest; and it involves, in some measure, being in Spirit. In fact, from the divine side, we are not in flesh but in Spirit. From the divine side, it is the state of the saints. But what do you say about it?

Rem. It is a challenging matter to me, to know what it is to be in Spirit.

G.R.C. I think we ought to know more about it. "I became in the Spirit on the Lord's day"; surely he would be in the holiest; but he heard a voice behind him. For the moment, instead of going on with what he would normally be engaged with in the holiest, he heard a voice behind him; and he had to turn round, and look at the assemblies here in responsibility. But he got a remarkable view of the Lord.

J.P. In connection with the holiest and the morning and evening oblation, if some of us were truthful we might have to admit that the position of our service, as in chapter 13: 13, would be the answer to why we are not free in relation to the evening oblation, and so on. Perhaps you would say more as to the position of the service -- outside the camp.

G.R.C. I believe the true service of God is only carried on outside the camp. It is only there that God is worshipped in spirit and truth. The Lord indicated it to the woman, "Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when ye shall neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem worship the Father". True worship is outside of all these things. And that is where Jesus is, as far as the world is concerned. In another sense, of course, He is in the presence of God. He has

entered in. But the One who has entered in, as regards this world is outside; and we go to Him without the camp.

Ques. Considering the day in which we are, would you stress that there is but one position -- outside the camp?

G.R.C. Yes, I would say that.

Ques. Are you giving "outside the camp" a spiritual application?

G.R.C. I want to give it a very practical one.

J.P. Personally, one feels challenged as to the bearing of "outside the camp" on our day-today relations with men. It affects our whole lives, and perhaps has a good deal to do with the sapping of spiritual vitality in carrying out the evening oblation, and our freedom to go into the holiest.

G.R.C. I do not think it is merely a physical separation. We may maintain a physical or formal separation, and say, We are the separate people; we have gone outside. But it involves nonconformity to the world in every aspect, in conversation and outlook, dress and everything else. It is useless to talk about having taken a position without the camp if I am just imitating the world in my manners and deportment.

D.M. Would Daniel be a model for us -- "he kneeled on his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime", Daniel 6:10? Yet he was a busy man.

G.R.C. All the affairs of the kingdom pressed upon him, but it did not affect the fact that three times a day he prayed and gave thanks, with his windows open toward Jerusalem. There was excess there. And some of the sisters are privileged to act likewise.

Brothers living in big cities are often away from home all day; they may not have a room to themselves in the factory or office. What can they do at midday? But sisters engaged on domestic duties can get alone with God, even if only for a brief time.

The body of the sin offering was burnt outside the camp, and it says that it was to be burnt in a clean place; and the only clean place in this world is with Christ outside the camp. Scripture also makes clear that only clean persons can have part in the service of God; therefore the service of God is with those who have gone forth to Him, bearing reproach.

W.T.L. Would you say that outside the camp would involve a great deal more than not being in Trade Unions or other similar associations?

G.R.C. It involves the reproach of Christ; and in order to escape that reproach we can easily take on the habits and fashions of the world. But, if we fail to accept the reproach of Christ, we give up one of the greatest privileges which will ever be ours, and forfeit the present joy of approach to God and priestly service.

F.K.C. In Numbers 19:5 - 6 it says, "And one shall burn the heifer before his eyes; its skin and it flesh, and its blood, with its dung, shall he burn. And the priest shall take cedar-wood, and hyssop, and scarlet, and cast them into the midst of the burning of the heifer". Would that be in line with what you are now speaking of? The cedar-wood, hyssop, scarlet all go into the burning.

G.R.C. That is it. It is a remarkable type, and it is mentioned, as we have noticed, in Hebrews 9:13, "a heifer's ashes, sprinkling the defiled". It is the only time that the burning is said to be done

before someone's eyes. The ordinary sin offerings were burnt outside, but what is stressed as to the heifer is that is was to be burnt before Eleazar's eyes. We are to have this terrible burning, which Christ endured, before our very eyes; and we are to see that all we could boast in has gone into it. The cedar and hyssop and scarlet have all gone in the burning, in order to produce the ashes for the water of purification for sin.

Ques. We may maintain separation in business, but, if we isolate ourselves from men, we may miss the privilege of bearing reproach.

G.R.C. Quite so. The Lord did not isolate Himself. I know that it is sometimes a temptation to keep out of sight in order to escape reproach. Of course, we would not run into suffering needlessly, but the testimony requires that we should show ourselves. Elijah is told to show himself to Ahab. We would not do it unnecessarily; but we are to testify, and that is where the kingliness of the priesthood comes in; you are prepared for the suffering and reproach involved in testimony.

J.R.H. When you speak of the burning being before Eleazar's eyes, have you in mind the spiritual discernment of the saints?

G.R.C. Yes, I think that. It is, therefore, always a present matter to us, and it would bear also on our bodies being washed with pure water. It is a thing viewed from God's side as complete. The word to Peter in Acts 10 is, "What God has cleansed". We accept the gospel, and God regards us as completely cleared from the old man. We are "buried with him in baptism", Colossians 2:12. We profess to have put off the old man and to have put on the new. But it is a

question of the practical working out of it; and the practical working out of it means that we are outside the camp in our conduct, as well as in an ecclesiastical way.

G.A.S. And the transforming by the renewing of your mind goes along with that, does it not? Does that take place in the holiest?

G.R.C. The Spirit would transform us by the renewing of our minds. He brings divine thoughts before us with a view to transformation, so that we are no longer conformed to this world; we have something much better.

Ques. Daniel's prayer three times a day meant, not only testimony, but being put in the lion's den.

G.R.C. He was not seeking publicity, but he did not shrink from it. Now this matter of outside the camp is a very touching thing. Our privilege is inside, but the corresponding place is outside. Our place is within the veil. Well, the One who secured that place within, for us, suffered outside; and He is still outside; and we are to go forth to Him without the camp. And there we come into the place where we can carryon this great service. It does not go on according to God, anywhere else.

Ques. Do you mean, by Him being outside, that He is outside of everything that is of the old man and of the world, and that we have to go forth to Him without?

A.J.D. The wording of that verse is very affecting. "Wherefore also Jesus, that he might sanctify the people by his own blood, suffered without the gate", Hebrews 13:12.

G.R.C. It is, indeed, very affecting. I am afraid we shall not have time to touch chapter 2, but it

really affords the climax of what we are engaged with, because, while there is the continual burnt offering and the continual incense to be maintained, it all bears on assembly service. The great response is there. Whatever we may enjoy in our private devotions; everything is enhanced in the assembly. So the word there is, "I will declare thy name to my brethren; in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises", Hebrews 2:12. That is the great end in view in the service of God. And, under the hand of Christ, there will be great substance in the ordering of the service. And we shall reach the highest levels of the service under His direction, as He says, "My Father, and your Father, and my God, and your God".

LIVES REGULATED BY THE WILL OF GOD

Hebrews 10:5 - 7; Romans 12:1 - 2; 2 Timothy 2:3 - 6, 15, 21, 24 - 26

I was asked some weeks ago, dear brethren, as to the choice of a career. I suppose there are young people here tonight who are thinking about their career. The fact of the matter is there is only one career for the Christian; it is the most blessed and glorious career that any of the human race could have. The Christian's career is to do the will of God; and, if we accept that, it makes things very simple. God has called us out; He has called us in; He has called us up. It is the will of God that we should pursue our calling with all our might. J.N.D.'s hymn speaks of the calling out. He says, "Rise, my soul, thy God directs thee". In another hymn he says, "This world is a wilderness wide; we have nothing to seek or to choose". Our path, you see, is the will of God. God has chosen it for us. And we have a great Model in the Lord Jesus.

If we take account of Him, our souls will be moved, and our one desire will be to pursue the path of God's will. That is why I began with Hebrews 10:5, "Wherefore coming into the world he says, Sacrifice and offering thou willedst not; but thou has prepared me a body. Thou tookest no pleasure in burnt-offerings and sacrifices for sin. Then I said, Lo, I come (in the roll of the book it is written of me) to do, O God, thy will". The Lord Jesus came into the world with only one object -- to do God's will. And for that He

needed a body. He says, "thou has prepared me a body". He took that body with that one object in view, that in that body He would carry out the will of God. And a tremendous amount devolved upon Him -- all that was written in the roll of the book, the book of eternal counsel. All devolved on Him as to the carrying out of God's will. How much it cost Him! What He uttered shows that He fully understood what it would cost Him. The will of God meant to Him that He should be the great anti-type of all those offerings by fire, of old. "Sacrifices and offerings and burnt-offerings and sacrifices for sin thou willedst not, neither tookest pleasure in". They were the four offerings by fire. How well He knew what was involved in His coming! He was to endure the fire; not only the fire on the altar, but that all-consuming fire of divine judgment, typified when the victim's body was consumed outside the camp. Jesus knew this full well; and He took that body on purpose to offer it as a sacrifice; "by which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all". Think of Him taking a body, and pursuing His path of service here in perfection; but all the time having in view what was coming at the end, that He was to be the great offering by fire, and that He was to endure all that that fire meant in all its reality. J.N.D. says, "All that God is, He is against sin". And the Lord Jesus bore it all. "Him who knew not sin he has made sin for us", 2 Corinthians 5:21. It is by God's will that we have been sanctified by the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Surely this leads out our hearts in worship and adoration to the Lord Jesus! What glory attaches to Him as the Sanctifier! He stands

in His glory, yet in verse 11 He is linked with the sanctified. "For both he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one", Hebrews 2:11. What fruit He has secured for God already! By God's will we have been sanctified; God has already the sanctified company, perfected as to their conscience. "For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the sanctified", Hebrews 10:14. God has a company, all of one with Christ, who have boldness to enter the holy of holies by His blood, by the new and living way. How much this means to God! His presence is already filled, as it were, with sanctified men. And how great the full result will be when the assembly is complete, and the sanctified company is actually in His presence in glorified bodies! What a great result! But then there will be not only the sanctified company, whose place is within the veil, but a universe secured for God as a result of this offering. His body was given for us; yet through the offering of His body, and the pouring out of His blood, a basis has been laid for a universe to come into blessing.

Now how does this bear upon us? Romans tells us. In chapter 12 the apostle says, "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the compassions of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your intelligent service". We need bodies to carry out the will of God. The Lord took a body; it was prepared for Him; but then we have bodies. God needs our bodies. You may be able to say, My soul is saved. That is good. God has saved your soul, but what about your body? Your body is essential for the carrying out at the present time God's will. So the word is, "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the compassions of God, to present your

bodies a living sacrifice". And that is what I would beseech my brethren here tonight to do. I would beseech the young people to do it. You say, Well I am breaking bread; I broke bread when I was eleven, or twelve. But are you really thoroughly in fellowship? Romans 12 is the fellowship chapter. The fellowship we are in is the fellowship, or the communion, of the body of the Christ. It is also the fellowship, or the communion, of the blood of the Christ. You have got the benefit of the blood; it has brought great blessing to your soul; but what about the fellowship of the body of the Christ? Are you in that communion, vitally? If so, it means that according to your capacity you will be using your body, as He used His. And every week, as you partake of the bread, you are committing yourself to it -- the communion of the body of the Christ. Every week there is a challenge to us as to how I am holding my body. I am professing to be in the communion of the body of the Christ; am I holding my body as He held His, for one purpose only, the will of God? God has called you into the fellowship of His Son. I have spoken of the way He has called you out, but He has called you in. "God is faithful, by whom ye have been called into the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord", 1 Corinthians 1:9. But while He has called you into it, nobody forces you into it. Paul beseeches you, and we beseech you. We beseech you, by the compassions of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice. You will note the way this is put. 'Bodies' is in the plural, and 'sacrifice' is in the singular. The typical reference here is to Exodus 25 when Jehovah says to Moses, "Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me a heave-offering". It was material

for the tabernacle. It was one great heave-offering; but everyone had part in it. And that is the point here. We present our bodies, one great living sacrifice; our bodies are all needed. It is not just a question of being here for the will of God as an isolated unit. You are not adequate for the will of God by yourself. That is not the point. The point is that you are with your brethren. In Romans 12 Paul is beseeching the brethren. We are all in this; we are all presenting our bodies a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God -- one great living sacrifice, the great heave-offering. And it is our "intelligent service". We know what the heave-offering is for. That is the meaning of 'intelligent'. We have no doubt as to what is in God's mind. Those people who brought the great heave-offering had no doubt as to what was in God's mind. He said, 'Let them make me a sanctuary that I may dwell among them'. And they brought the great heave-offering so that God might have His sanctuary, His dwelling place. And that is the point here. God wants dwelling conditions at the present time. And if He is to have them, the brethren must present their bodies, one great living sacrifice, for the formation, in a practical way, of God's habitation; and this is their intelligent service. The only intelligent thing you can do is to surrender yourself fully to the great matter in hand, that God may have His tabernacle, in all its features, in each locality where we are. That is a great thing! Could there be anything greater?

It is remarkable that the presenting of our bodies is a priestly act; "your intelligent service" -- that word means priestly service. It is one of the first great acts of priesthood. Until you have done

this, you are not much good for anything else. We have spoken of carrying on priestly service day by day, and how things are apt to crowd it out; but, if the body is presented a living sacrifice, it will not be crowded out. God's service will be the first thing, not left until last when everything else is finished and there is a little time left. In Malachi God says, "I am a great King", Malachi 1:14. And the force of what is said in that passage is that nothing but the best is acceptable to Him. It is a question of putting God first -- making sure -- that He gets His portion. But then it begins by the presenting of our bodies. A man who has presented his body puts God's claim first. And so it goes on, "And be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind". Now transformation is a wonderful thing. I hope there will be transformation as a result of our being together at this time. I hope there will be a great change with all of us. It is by the renewing of the mind, you see. If a man is thinking aright, he will do aright, "For as he thinketh in his soul, so is he", Proverbs 23:7. God brings to us the thoughts of His own mind to govern our minds; and the moment you get persons governed by the mind of God, there is a transformation. The word of God is both the great weapon in conflict and the great transforming power. It is the weapon the Lord uses when He comes out of heaven, the sharp two-edged sword going out of His mouth. If you could get the word of God to govern the minds of men at this present moment, war would cease, fear would go, and the conflict between good and evil would be over. The conflict is in men's minds. The moment men think aright there will be a transformation. And that is going on with the saints

now, "transformed by the renewing of your mind". The Spirit is operating; and, as we give Him place, He brings God's thoughts before us, so that we are thinking God's thoughts. And as we think God's thoughts, and let them control us, we are transformed.

And so the word is, "be not conformed to this world, but be transformed". As God's word comes to us, let it have its effect! We have to think of the negative first, because tomorrow the world will come in to crowd out of our minds what we have been having. Many things will come in. Scripture normally puts the negative first -- "Be not conformed to this world". The Spirit gives us power to put things away from us, and to allow the word of God to work out to full result. Perhaps you have largely been conformed to this world up till now. Be not conformed to it any longer; but let the word of God have its place in your mind, and you will be transformed. You will take on a different appearance. Maybe your home will take on a different appearance too. That is a wonderful thing -- transformation! And there is no place where transformation takes place so remarkably as in the holiest. As we habituate ourselves to going into the holiest, we shall surely be transformed; and we shall want to be here in all our ways, manifestly, as those who belong to the holy of holies. It will become the great desire of our hearts to comport ourselves at all times as those who belong within the veil. What a wonderful thing! Transformed! If you want to get the good of these meetings, go into the presence of God and go over things there. Behold the glory of God in Jesus! And so the transformation goes on, all with a view that "ye may prove what is the good and acceptable and

perfect will of God" -- and so to come out like Jesus.

Do not be vague about what the will of God is. If you go your own way you will prove just the opposite. You will prove that your will is a bad and miserable thing, which leads you to disaster. But if you are committed to God's will, with your body presented, and yourself transformed by the renewing of your mind, you will prove that which is good and acceptable and perfect. Your path will be like the path of the just, which "is as the shining light, going on and brightening until the day be fully come", Proverbs 4:18. And so, as I have said, we need our bodies for the will of God. It is a question of my body. What am I doing with my body? Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:19, 20, "Do ye not know that... ye are not your own? for ye have been bought with a price: glorify now then God in your body". Prior to that he asks two pertinent questions which bear on the subject in hand: "Do ye not know that your bodies are members of Christ?" verse 15, and, "Do ye not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit?" verse 19. This bears on the matter of the will of God. The first thing I have to consider, as here for the will of God, is that I am a member of Christ. Scripture says that my body is a member of Christ; I am to function in the one body; that is what is in mind in being a member of Christ. "We, being many, are one loaf, one body", 1 Corinthians 10:17. "We, being many, are one body in Christ, and each one members one of the other", Romans 12. You say, I would love to know what God's will is for me. I can tell you what God's will is for you. He has made you a member of the body of Christ; and the first element of His will is that you should function as an active

member of the body. In our human bodies, when they are healthy, no member is inactive. Every member plays its part, and every member is content with its place. And that is God's will for you. Do you not know that your body is a member of Christ? If you are to fulfil your function in the body of Christ, you need to hold your body in relation to that. The first claim on my body is that it should be used to function in the body of Christ. How are you getting on, on that line? Paul goes on to exhort them, in Romans 12, not to have high thoughts above what they should have, but to think so as to be wise. It is the wise-hearted who in Exodus 36 put the material together. You have got the material, the great heave-offering, the bodies presented; but now you need to be wise as to how it has to be put together. That is, we need to learn wisdom in our thoughts in relation to one another, as God has dealt to each a measure of faith. In my locality there are a certain number of bodies available; and God has dealt to each member a measure of faith. The faith mentioned in that verse is not justifying faith -- it is faith for action. God gives to every member of the body of Christ, faith to act in the position in which it is set in the body. It is for you and me to take account of that. I can see that each one can do something more efficiently than any one else. If we lose a member of our bodies, the other members have to do the best they can; but they cannot do it as well as the member that has gone. And so, as regards the body of Christ, in so far as the members are available, it is not for me to get in their way; it is for me to encourage each to get on with his work. God has dealt to each brother a measure of faith. He has dealt to each sister a measure of faith.

I look round, and I begin to see how estimable my brethren are. God has had dealings with every one of them, and I cannot help respecting them. He has put them in the body of Christ, and has dealt to each a measure of faith so that they can carry out their functions in the body. In accepting this I learn to be wise, and not to think too highly of myself. I can see what He has given to others, and I want to make way for others, and, at the same time, to fit in myself. I want the body to work. It is the will of God. I want you to get on to the line of the will of God, dear young brothers and sisters. This is part of your career; to understand what God has given to your brethren, and what He has given to you; and to fit together in divine wisdom as the body of Christ.

Then in 1 Corinthians 6 there is the second question. "Do ye not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you?" That is a complementary idea, because the Spirit manifests Himself through the members of the body. We, as individual believers, are to hold our individual bodies as temple of the Holy Spirit, in view of our collective place in the temple of God. "Do ye not know", he says, "that ye are temple of God" -- that is written to the company -- "and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" 1 Corinthians 3:16. The way we get the gain of the temple is by understanding the truth of the body; and if we are in the gain of the truth of the body, and each member is functioning, and love is operating according to 1 Corinthians 13, so that each one is free and happy to function in his place, then we get the manifestations of the Spirit through the members. The Spirit distributes to each as He pleases -- marvellous thing! -- and that is how we get the gain of the temple. We come

together bodywise, in mutual estimation of one another in love, in holy freedom; and thus the Spirit is free. And the Spirit manifests Himself through whom He will, and light shines in the temple. Bringing it down to each one of us, it all hinges on the way I am holding my body. I am ever to keep in mind that my body is a member of Christ, and temple of the Holy Spirit, in view of what is collective. And while we get great benefit from the body, and great benefit from the temple, the great end in view is that God is dwelling. Without saints set together bodywise, there can be no chaste virgin for Christ, and no suitable conditions for God. The great objective is the dwelling place of God. We are apt to think of the temple only as a place where we get light; but the greatest thing about the temple is that God is dwelling there. God is in His holy temple. It is the place where divine service goes on, where they cease not day and night saying, Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty, He who is and who was and who is to come -- see Isaiah 6 and Revelation 4. We get light there; but the great thing is that God is there, and is served there. Well, is not this worth going in for? Is it not a great career to have our part in God's temple and the service proper to it?

Now I pass on to Timothy, because what is precious to God is here and has to be defended. And it is the will of God that you should be one of the defenders. We are in a system in which there is compulsory military service -- no exemption. When God's rights are at stake, you cannot claim exemption on conscience ground. You will get a bad conscience if you do not serve. So Paul says to Timothy, "Take thy share in suffering as a good soldier of Jesus

Christ"; or, as the note says, 'Christ Jesus'. I love that expression -- Christ Jesus. Who would not desire to be a good soldier of that victorious and glorious Man! After the tabernacle of old was set up, and God was dwelling in it, and all the service of the priesthood was established, then God ordered the people to be numbered for military service -- see Numbers 1. All were to be available to defend the testimony, to defend His habitation. This is the will of God. Have you accepted your enrolment in that army? Is there anyone here, brother or sister, who is not on active service? You are not really in fellowship if you are not actively in the army. It is not only the old brothers who are in the army; it is all -- from 20 years old and upward. Twenty years old, typically, refers to the time when I confess Jesus as my Lord and commit myself to His fellowship. I may be much younger in actual years, but spiritually I am twenty years old. I become a member of the 'Armed Forces'; "Take thy share in suffering as a good soldier of Jesus Christ". Never leave your sword behind! Never go about unarmed! Always be ready to defend the truth, for to do so is part of the will of God. You say, I do not like suffering. Nor do I. Alas! I have often avoided it, sad to say. And yet it is one of our greatest privileges to suffer, for we prove our moral title to kingship by preparedness to suffer. Let us be always ready to defend the testimony! That is what Paul says to Timothy, "Proclaim the word; be urgent in season and out of season", 2 Timothy 4:2. That is, be always prepared to use the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Timothy would be a man always ready to lay about him when enemies came into view; always, of course,

with a view to the saving of men. The Christian soldier does not inflict suffering; he bears suffering in order to save others. And if you use the word of God, it will bring you into suffering and reproach. So he says, "Take thy share in suffering as a good soldier of Jesus Christ".

Then Paul says, "And if also anyone contend in the games, he is not crowned unless he contend lawfully". Be a good athlete! Lay aside every weight! If you were going in for the games, and you wished to win a crown, you would lay everything else aside. The soldier lays things aside in order to be available to the One who has enlisted him; he does not entangle himself with the affairs of this life. The athlete too lays things aside because he has got one objective, and one only. Paul says, "but one thing -- forgetting the things behind, and stretching out to the things before, I pursue, looking towards the goal, for the prize of the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus", Philippians 3:13, 14. That is the will of God for you: He wishes you to be a man of one purpose. Then he says, "The husbandman must labour before partaking of the fruits". One is delighted to see the labour that has gone on these days; young men and women labouring, serving the brethren. I am sure, young people, you will partake of the fruits! God will see to that! You have laboured, and your labours have been appreciated, and you will partake of the fruits. But go on with the labour! Be prepared for labour! "Salute Maria, who laboured much for you", Paul says in Romans 16:6. How the sisters labour!

Then he goes on, "Strive diligently to present thyself approved to God, a workman that has not to be ashamed". Now you are at the university, you see.

Many young people here may be at a university, but this is the divine university. You are trying to satisfy your examiners, and it may be a tough job! But in the divine university you have to satisfy God, and you have to strive diligently to do that. This is not an easy course at all. When you have gone through your course of technical training, your examiners come and look at your work. But this is divine scrutiny -- "Strive diligently to present thyself approved to God, a workman that has not to be ashamed". Think of doing work in such a manner that God finds no fault with it! Even under His scrutiny it passes! What a degree to get! "Strive diligently to present thyself approved to God, a workman that has not to be ashamed, cutting in a straight line the word of truth". Young men and women, you cannot be too young to start on this course. It needs diligence; it needs application. You may say to me, My ordinary studies take up a great deal of my time. Well, God will help you in those, if you are simple, especially if you are prepared to give application to His things. God calls us into His work; not only brothers, but sisters. "Prisca and Aquila, my fellow-workmen in Christ Jesus", Paul says in Romans 16:3. He puts the sister first. It is the highest level of workmanship to be Paul's fellow-workmen in Christ Jesus. Let us all have before us to pass this test, "approved to God, a workman that has not to be ashamed, cutting in a straight line the word of truth". Have this before you, young people, whether brothers or sisters! Have an outline of sound words, and learn to cut the truth in a straight line!

Now, as the chapter proceeds, it speaks of a vessel. The matter of separation is brought in, in order that

we might be vessels to honour; and that is another test. It is not the military test, nor the examination test. But unless we answer to the test of separation we cannot pass the other tests. We always tend to get contaminated with what is unclean. So he says, "If therefore one shall have purified himself from these in separating himself from them, he shall be a vessel to honour, sanctified, serviceable to the Master, prepared for every good work". What an object to have in view; to be ready for every good work, Godward, saintward, manward! The greatest good works are priestly services Godward. They are not dead works, but good works. The Lord said of one, "she has wrought a good work toward me", Matthew 26:10. Then there is service to the saints, and service to men. And then the whole matter is summed up in the expression, "a bondman of the Lord". You count it the greatest honour to be just a slave of Jesus Christ. "And a bondman of the Lord ought not to contend, but be gentle towards all; apt to teach; forbearing; in meekness setting right those who oppose, if God perhaps may sometimes give them repentance to acknowledgment of the truth, and that they may awake up out of the snare of the devil, who are taken by him, for his will". The footnote shows that 'his will' means God's will. So if in meekness you are seeking to set right those who oppose, your only objective is that they should be available for God's will, to bring them into the path you are on. Now I speak again to the young people here. You may not have been able to take in all I have said, but I trust that what I have said is enough to show you that there is a most glorious career available to you, something worth devoting all your energies upon.

But you may say to me, Yes, but I have got my living to get. Dear young believer, if you are set for God's will, your living will be a very simple matter. God knows your needs. Your heavenly Father knows them all. If you are set this way, you can go very simply to Him to ask for guidance as to the incidental things, because your livelihood here is an incidental matter. God's will is the main thing. But as to the incidental things, He will care for those, and do the very best for you. "In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he will make plain thy paths", Proverbs 3:6. He will give you no doubt as to what kind of work you should do down here. And in ordering for you, you will find, as life goes on, that He has ordered for you in the very best way relative to your carrying out these primary obligations to which I have referred; that He has ordered your circumstances in the very best way in relation to His own. And what could you want better than that? I would, therefore, encourage all the young people here as to the great career which lies before you; and let me implore you not to miss it. If you fail to appreciate the present opportunity, the time will come when your heart will be filled with regrets. May God grant that we all present our bodies a living sacrifice, and prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God!