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CHRIST IN US

Romans 8:9, 10; Colossians 1:27 - 29; Colossians 3:9 - 11; Ephesians 3:14 - 19.

G.R.C. In the eighth chapter of Romans it is Christ in the individual. "If anyone has not the Spirit of Christ he is not of him; but if Christ be in you, the body is dead on account of sin, but the Spirit life on account of righteousness". In Colossians it is Christ in the local company: "to whom God would make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the nations, which is Christ in you the hope of glory". And coupled with that we have the teaching in Colossians that we profess to have put on the new man, where Christ is everything and in all; and that should mark every local company. We should be true to what we profess -- that we have put on the new man. And then in Ephesians, the prayer is "the Christ". In the other passages it is "Christ". In Ephesians it is that the Christ might dwell in our hearts by faith. And "the Christ" refers to Him in the way we were speaking of Him yesterday, as the Head and Centre of things in heaven and earth -- holding in His own Person all the great offices, "the Christ" is the highest office in the universe -- He is God's Anointed, to rule over all things in heaven and earth -- angels and principalities and powers made subject to Him. So that in Ephesians, the Christ dwelling in our hearts by faith, means that He is Head over all things to each one of us as we apprehend Him as Head over all things in heaven and earth, and cherish Him in our affections as such. So that the passage goes on to show that if He, the Christ, has that place in our hearts, we shall be

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rooted and founded in love because He is the very expression of Divine love, radiating God's love to a universe, and we shall be able to fully apprehend the whole system -- "the breadth and length and depth and height". We have to work out things individually first -- though, of course, the individual side goes on all the time. In divine things we never fully compass any side of the truth; but there are certain lines of things we must begin with; and as we make a beginning in Romans we can go on to Colossians, and then proceed further to Ephesians. But we never fully compass Romans 8; you never fully compass any element of the truth -- because everything connected with the truth of God is so wonderful -- you are always developing in it. And so, once you start on the various lines, you keep developing on all the lines; therefore you never leave Romans in one sense.

J.W.D. What does the Spirit of Christ mean?

G.R.C. The Spirit of Christ is that aspect of the Spirit that is often spoken of as the Anointing. Christ means the Anointed One; and what God says about Him calls our attention to Him. He says: "Behold my servant whom I uphold, mine elect in whom my soul delighteth! I will put my spirit upon him", Isaiah 42:1. That is the anointing. So that for us to be marked by the Spirit of Christ means that the features of God's Beloved, in whom God's soul delights, are expressed in us. Is that so?

J.W.D. Yes, thank you.

G.R.C. And we don't want any other features, do we? Think of God speaking of His soul -- "in whom my soul delighteth"! The soul speaks of deep emotion. When God looks upon His Beloved, His soul is moved.

Rem. Is it good to see the setting of this in Romans? After we come into the practical gain of chapter 7; that is, the beautiful ending of the chapter: "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord"?

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Having learnt that there is nothing in that man, you are ready for all that is in the other Man, are you not?

G.R.C. Saul of Tarsus was the finest man he knew; he had no thought that there was a better man than Saul of Tarsus; every feature of that man he admired. But the time came, when he went through Romans 7, he came to the conclusion that Saul of Tarsus was a wretched man. That is a good thing to come to; if he came to that, we ought to come to it ourselves.

Ques. Would you agree that we have to go through Romans 7 before we come to Romans 8?

G.R.C. In an initial sense, yes. In an initial sense that you never go back on; but you are increasing. I may realise more in a few months that I am a wretched man than I do now.

Ques. Is there a difference between the first verse -- "in Christ" -- and this verse we read, "Christ in us"?

G.R.C. Well, that is an important point, because Christ could not be in us if we were not in Him. "There is then now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus". But really the two sides link together. You get much of it in John's gospel: "Abide in me and I in you", and so on. He speaks in his epistle about abiding in God and God in us. The two sides should be commensurate; if we are in Christ, Christ should be in us -- nothing else but Christ seen. What have you got in mind?

Rem. Well, I should like help, because this verse speaks of Christ in us -- I suppose it means that something should be seen practically in us of Christ; not our standing in Christ.

G.R.C. No, our standing in Christ is complete, is it not, because that is from the Divine side? "If any one be in Christ, there is a new creation", 2 Corinthians 5:17. There we are, in Christ. God has wrought,

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and from His side, that stands -- we are in Christ and that is new creation.

Rem. In this chapter, we do not walk according to flesh but according to Spirit; the Spirit of Christ should be seen in us. Would you say that is so?

G.R.C. Yes; so the first thing really is to make room for the Spirit. We apprehend that Christ has borne the condemnation for our wretched man. I cannot think why we want to revive him so much -- this wretched man! Paul was glad to get rid of him; and nobody had admired that wretched man more than Saul had; but he completely changed his outlook. He said: "O wretched man that I am". If only I can rid myself of Saul of Tarsus! Then he says, I have got rid of him, because I am now crucified with Christ, and I am not living any more but Christ is living in me. That is how he came to this; Paul's own experience is summed up in those words. Because the wretched man deserves only to be hanged upon a tree. It may take me a long time to come to it that I am so wretched by nature that I deserve to be hanged upon a tree, and Jesus took my place. He bore the condemnation so that there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. But then he immediately brings in the Spirit: "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free ...". It is one thing to realise that He bore the condemnation and there is none for me from God's side -- because He has borne it -- it is another thing to be in the joy and liberty of that, and that is by the Spirit -- "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death". The ideal thing for the Christian is to have nothing even to condemn himself about. God is not going to condemn me, but then if I am going about all the time with the sense of failure and the sense of condemnation, I am not a very happy man. I know that we often offend, and that we have to go back to root principles; but characteristically,

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we should be in a state where we are delivered from self-condemnation, and rightly so because the Spirit is life.

Rem. You are not really a satisfied man, if you are looking for any good from that kind of man.

G.R.C. No, you are always despondent.

Rem. You have not come out practically through the 7th chapter.

G.R.C. No, quite. But if we make room for the Spirit, you see, it makes room for Christ. The Spirit is here to make room for Christ in everything. And if we recognise that God has condemned sin in the flesh, and the condemnation has been borne and that God has finished with that man, the wretched man, it means then that we make room for the Spirit. That is the result of it practically; the Spirit is my only hope subjectively. If I am only a wretched man and all I can bring forth is wretched thoughts and wretched acts, well, my only hope is in the Spirit. Therefore I begin to think that there is no point in doing anything else than to walk no more after the flesh -- which would always keep me miserable -- but to walk after the Spirit, and to mind not the things of the flesh. Because the mind of the flesh is death -- I don't want to be in a dead state all the time -- but to mind the things of the Spirit which is life and peace. I come to that conclusion, that it is the only thing worth while.

Rem. So he buries the man that is dead.

G.R.C. You see, any man hanged upon a tree had to be buried the same day, he was accursed; Christ became a curse for us and He was hanged upon a tree and buried on the same day; and that is what we should do with ourselves. We should see that the wretched man, "Saul of Tarsus", was buried the same day and not revived.

Rem. You might think that hanging on the tree was sufficient, but it is absolutely to be removed out

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of sight of everybody -- it is unfit for His presence.

G.R.C. Well, if you are only fit to be hanged on a tree, you are not fit to be looked at, so you will bury that man. This makes way for Christ in us; the Spirit makes way for Christ -- you make way for the Spirit and the Spirit makes way for Christ. And so the triumphant end of things here in verse 10 is really the state of soul in true deliverance. It is not now "Who shall deliver me from this body of death?" but the body is dead -- now you are delivered. "The body is dead on account of sin, and the Spirit is life". That man is delivered; he is not worrying about a body of death; his body is under control -- his body is dead -- he had got that down under control. And the Spirit is life -- the source of his thoughts and deeds and words. And for that to come to pass, we need to make room for the Spirit in such a way that the Spirit makes room for Christ; so that it can be said Christ is in us -- He is reigning supreme in our moral being; Christ and not self. Is that right?

Rem. That is lovely, if it is real.

G.R.C. "If Christ be in you" is the triumphant position in which God has made a provision for us all to be in; that is, as we walk about here Christ is in control.

Rem. No such thought as 'inferiority complex'.

G.R.C. No, Christ is in control; both as Christ lives in me and is enshrined in my affections and in control of my being. What I do and think and say spring from Christ and not from self. The Spirit in me is to bring that about as a state -- a characteristic state of soul.

Ques. Is that what Paul meant when he said, "That I might know him and the power of his resurrection", Philippians 3?

G.R.C. Yes, he was going on to that. Philippians shows that we can never take the ground that we have reached the fulness of anything while we are down

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here. He was pressing on to that all the time.

Ques. Would you say that we never reach deliverance as an accomplished thing -- is it something we grow into constantly?

G.R.C. I think so. The first time you come to it helps you to never go back to it in despair. The man in Romans 7 is in despair until the end of the chapter; and Mr. Stoney said that a man in that state is liable to commit suicide -- because he is in despair. God would not normally let you go as far as that, because He shows you the light; you get to the point of, "O wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me?" And then he sees the whole thing; the cross, and the Man crucified there become a curse for him and bearing the condemnation; and then he learns to value the Spirit, typically the brazen serpent and the springing well.

Rem. When once they were over the Red Sea, they never went back again.

G.R.C. No; So that the initial thing in Romans 7 is real, but then we keep on going into it more deeply. Towards the end of his life Paul says he is the chief of sinners; it was not just a theory; he never knew any one worse than himself; and that is what we come to in this process of Romans 7 and 8 -- that we never met anybody worse than ourselves, and that affects our outlook on everybody else.

Rem. It is a continual matter, to put to death the deeds of the body, and we can only do that as we are subject to the Spirit.

G.R.C. That is a continual thing, and, as you say, it is by the Spirit you do it. So that there are the two sides. On the one hand we have before us the characteristic state where Christ must have the place He ought to have in us and has complete control in our affections and in every way; and then it views it, from that standpoint, that when that is so the body is dead. If Christ is in command, the body can't do

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anything; for if it acts of itself it is all sin, that is the point -- the law of sin in our members, as Romans 7 says. If the fleshy mind acts of its own, all it can do is sin. And therefore Christ cannot go on with sin; if He has the place He ought to have in us the body is dead; that means it does not act of itself. The Spirit is life, not the thoughts and desires of the flesh, but the Spirit is life on account of righteousness. That is the characteristic state. But then, on the other hand, in the practical working out of that, you have to act as an executioner all the time, killing the deeds of the body; because while characteristically the body is dead and Christ is in command, the urges of the flesh keep coming up. They don't worry you while you are in Romans 7; but now as you progress into Romans 8, they keep coming up. Before you know where you are, you are prompted to let the unruly member get out of hand. That is the primary thing; a man who can control his tongue can control his whole body. So if we haven't learnt to control our tongue (and I haven't learnt to control mine very much), we can't be sure what is going to happen to the rest of the body. If you can control your tongue, that is a great thing, and never say anything but which comes from the Spirit of God. And so we have to be like an executioner -- and it is not a sad job to be an executioner -- for you had got round to that judgment with God in it. And so as these things crop up, you put them to death -- you should not have any mercy on them. You have to be a ruthless executioner; "if, by the Spirit, ye put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live", Romans 8:13.

Ques. Is there any doubt about the Holy Spirit indwelling the believer? It says: "if indeed God's Spirit dwells in you", verse 9?

G.R.C. I think, perhaps, there are two sides to that. In 1 Corinthians 3 it says: "Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God

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dwells in you?" I know it is the company there in mind, and it is true from the Divine side. But the aim in what we are on here now is that the Spirit might be dwelling restfully in us -- dwelling suggests restfulness. And that depends on right conditions with us.

REM. I ask this because it has been said that not all believers have got the Holy Spirit dwelling in them; but here, I take it, it suggests what is normal.

G.R.C. Well, there may be believers of a kind that have not got the Holy Spirit. But this is normal here -- we have to keep to normality. Some may say there are not many normal Christians about, but it does not help us to drop the normal view. The thing is to maintain what God regards as normal. But I think it is the normal thing for every believer on Jesus glorified to have the Spirit, however little they may learn to value Him. Because, without the Spirit, I cannot see how anybody can have any apprehension of Jesus glorified.

Rem. Without the Spirit, they cannot say "Lord Jesus".

G.R.C. Not in a real way, and properly understand it.

Rem. Being in Christ is a new position, is it not? You are then in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

G.R.C. Well, that is the normal Christian position, that we are in Christ and Christ in us. Our apprehension practically of that is another thing. When it comes down to the very root of the matter, Paul says to the Corinthians, "Examine your own selves if ye be in the faith; prove your own selves; do ye not recognise yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you, unless indeed ye be reprobates?", 2 Corinthians 13:5. So that with every believer who has the Spirit, he is in Christ, and that is fixed and unalterable, and through Divine workmanship Christ is in him. All Romans is experience; it is not a statement merely of doctrine. Romans shows how we arrive at it

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experimentally; whatever may be from the Divine side, the thing is that we arrive at it and are in the joy of it. And if Christ is in us experimentally, then the body is dead because of sin, and the Spirit life. Now, it may be that a number of times in a day I may fail in vigilance to be an executioner; and before I manage to take vigorous action, as is necessary, I have allowed the flesh -- my eyes, my tongue and may be other things -- to get out of hand, and of course I have to get to God about it. But it can be done very quickly: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness". The matter is finished and your spirit is cleansed from the whole thing and you are back where you were -- Christ again in control.

Rem. "By the Spirit"; will you say something about that, please? We need help as to this, because the flesh is too strong for us.

G.R.C. The flesh is indeed too strong for us. The man in Romans 7 finds the flesh altogether too much for him; he is carnal, sold under sin; he is just a slave carried along by the power of sin in his members. And that is where we all are by nature; you can't meet flesh with flesh. As born again, you have the desire, like the man in Romans 7; the desires are right; he wants to do what is right, what is of God. But instead of that, he is doing what he hates, because the flesh is too much for him. But God's gospel would not leave us in that position; His gospel is a gospel of deliverance as well as salvation. Therefore He meets the flesh with the Spirit; but the Spirit is against the flesh all the time, and that is a comfort to me. The flesh lusts against the Spirit, that is why this work of execution has to go on. But then it says the Spirit against the flesh. And therefore if I maintain a judgment against my flesh, which we are very slow to come to as a constant thing -- if I only

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maintain my judgment so that I take sides with the Spirit -- He is against the flesh all the time -- there is bound to be victory. The Spirit is the Almighty God in us: "I am the Almighty God; walk before my face and be perfect", Genesis 17:1. Now the power of the Almighty God is in us by the Spirit; so that we have power to do what we are told to do here. The trouble is that we are apt to love certain features of the flesh; it may be a long time before certain features leave us, and we like to allow that little feature any way, and then we lose power.

Rem. Paul says in Galatians, "They that are of the Christ have crucified the flesh with the passions and the lusts", Galatians 5:24. The matter is complete and all is gone.

G.R.C. You come to a real judgment of that man and all its features -- whether men call it good, bad or otherwise -- that man deserves nothing but to be hanged upon a tree. You crucify the flesh in that way; in your mind all that you are in the flesh is hanged upon a tree. What do you think?

B. Well, we need help to maintain that.

G.R.C. I know, we do; but we can't doubt the almighty power of the Spirit to deal with what, otherwise, is an entirely impossible obstacle -- the flesh in us. It is something that I am always thankful about -- that the Spirit is against the flesh; and if I am only with the Spirit and take sides with Him, I shall win.

Rem. We prove that, do we not? even in small things we are helped to triumph, and it is a comfort to us.

G.R.C. It is a comfort. We want to get before us, in this scripture, what is normal and hold to it -- Christ is in us in this way in triumph; Christ, by the Spirit, having control of every item of our practical life.

R. It might take me all my life to reach this stage.

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But I was thinking that Saul did not take long before his name was changed to Paul.

G.R.C. No; Saul attained to that quickly, one would judge -- three days blind, and then away to Arabia. But that was a long time before he came to active service. He went to his home-town at Tarsus, and then he was brought out by Barnabas to go to Antioch. But he did not go round saying the Lord has appeared to me, and I am a chosen vessel and I am going to do a lot of great things. He went on with God and waited until the time when Barnabas came and fetched him from his locality. Then a year at Antioch and afterwards was sent by the Spirit: "for the work to which I have called them", Acts 13:2. What went on in all those years, who can tell? But Saul went through all the features of Christianity in his own soul. I hope we are all encouraged by Romans 8!

Rem. It is a great encouragement. Would that I had these things when I was young -- how I think of our dear young brothers and sisters in that way!

G.R.C. Our brother spoke of what a long time it is for one to attain to this. Well, I have been 49 years in fellowship trying to learn it -- what a slow learner I am!

Rem. Well, we can all say that.

G.R.C. Now, as to Colossians, it is a local company. And when you come to Christ being in a local company, well, it is a marvellous thing to arrive at. The language used is almost, one may say, extravagant: "the riches of the glory of this mystery among the nations, which is Christ in you the hope of glory", Colossians 1:27. Just a few unknown people in Hedge End -- but there is riches of glory.

Rem. Perhaps you will enlarge on this "riches of the glory", please!

G.R.C. I think one illustration of it is the tabernacle system. You see, alongside of the giving of the

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law, which condemns us and tells us our man is a wretched man and brings us to the end of ourselves, God introduced what was typical of Christianity -- the tabernacle system. That is an amazing thing; that in introducing the Old Covenant, He introduced alongside of it what typified Christianity itself -- the tabernacle. And what Paul is saying here is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the nations. Among the nations; Christ is among the nations, that is among a little company here in this place -- Christ is there. What was there typically in the Old Testament in that wonderful system, where the Ark was as the Centre, and the high priest moved freely and served God; now the real thing was among the nations. The other system was a type and shadow. But the real thing, the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched and not man, is among the nations. And they needed anointed eyes to see it. The features of the true tabernacle are in the saints. Everything in the tabernacle was Christ -- there was not any article, the smallest item, which did not refer to Christ. Some items referred to Christ personally, like the Ark; but all the rest referred to Christ in character. And the first thing to learn is to look round on your local brethren and see nothing but Christ; because new creation is present here; not yet complete, but new creation is here present in this room. We have got a number of people here who are in Christ -- a new creation. Paul says he knew no one after the flesh; and when he looked round at people in a meeting room he only saw new creation. I don't know what we see when we look round on the saints; we should see only part of that which formed the true tabernacle which the Lord pitched and not man. Now, you see, Paul knew no one after the flesh, and therefore he could take account of the flesh in the brethren, without exposing them, and could deal with it and help them. If you clothe your brother with the flesh

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in him you are not helping him at all; you are putting him back to what God has delivered him from -- from the Divine side. And that does not help a man. But if we know no one after the flesh, we can still take account of the flesh working in them, but we are in a position to help them; because we still hold them to what they really are as newly created by God.

Rem. You would see something of the excellency of the glory of Christ is in each brother and sister.

G.R.C. Yes, the riches of the glory -- that you see in Christ in each brother and sister. They form part of this true tabernacle, where there is nothing but Christ. But that preposition 'in' in the original also means 'among'. And I believe the two thoughts are involved in this verse. I believe the tabernacle is the idea in mind, and in the tabernacle Christ typically was there personally in the Ark; and in the great priest serving, and so on; and also in the candlestick. Christ was there personally and surrounded by what was Christ characteristically. Christ must be in us characteristically before He has liberty to be among us personally. When they made the tabernacle, the Ark was not the first thing made; they made the whole tabernacle first, not the court. They made the curtains, the boards and so on. The tabernacle was set up before the Ark was made; so that when it was made there were suitable surroundings. And that is what we have to look to in our localities, to see that we are not knowing one another after the flesh, that we are dwelling together on the lines of new creation and thus fitted together spiritually and then we shall know Christ personally in the midst of us. Both sides are needed for the "riches of the glory". There would not be riches of the glory if there were not both sides: Christ in us characteristically and Christ among us personally.

Rem. It is very helpful to bring in the tabernacle system into this; it helps us in the understanding of

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Colossians, as you are bringing before us; because you can see with what delight God would have us in our place in the tabernacle system!

G.R.C. That is it. So that in every local meeting there should be a replica of the tabernacle, as it were. And as set together relative to new creation we know the presence of Christ amongst us.

Ques. So as the tabernacle contains many different things, all speaking of Christ, we also would not expect to see the same things in each one of us. There should be something of Christ in each one in the company. Is that right?

G.R.C. Yes, clearly. And then He is known amongst us in a personal sense -- "there am I in the midst of them", Matthew 18. He is the Ark, He is the Great Priest, He is the Altar, He is the pure Table, He is the Candle-stick. What riches of glory in knowing Christ among us thus! At one time, He may impress us about Himself in certain ways as to His glory, and other times in other ways. Look at the way He impressed us this morning with His glory; the One Who is the Ark, the Candle-stick, through Whom all light shines! And this will encourage us to toil, like Paul did, to bring about practical conditions, where we are dwelling together relative to new creation, in one another and in the new man; so that we might experience this every time we come together -- Christ in liberty amongst us. Paul says, "Whereunto I toil".

Rem. It was not until the tabernacle was set up that God dwelt in the midst of His people, was it?

G.R.C. No, it was not. And if Christ comes in amongst us, we shall enjoy the presence of God. In such surroundings God does dwell; and where we experience the joy of it, there Christ is free to come and move freely amongst His people -- "The riches of the glory of this mystery" -- it is a mystery. People outside have no idea what you are enjoying --

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they don't know that Christ is there amongst that company.

Rem. Our exercise then should be that there are conditions where He can come.

G.R.C. That is it. That is what Paul laboured for. "Whom we announce, admonishing every man, in all wisdom", Colossians 1:28. That is like Bezaleel (Exodus 36), the wise-hearted, putting the tabernacle together. He taught them in all wisdom to fit together body-wise so as to present every man perfect in Christ. We are set together in our proper place, in the body and in the house functioning. And then we have the presence of Christ amongst us.

Ques. Would you say that in the tabernacle system it is not so much that I go in as God coming out?

G.R.C. I think it is both.

Rem. Yes, I am thinking of the entrance by the brazen altar, but is it not first God coming out from the holiest?

G.R.C. And our going in, what about that?

Rem. Perhaps you can help us a little on that line!

G.R.C. Well, no sooner had God took His abode in the tabernacle in the end of Exodus, that He spoke in the beginning of Leviticus out of the Tent of Meeting. And what did He speak about? If any one wants to draw near -- He invites His people to come near; He tells His people what is near His heart, that they should draw near to His abode in the place in which He abides.

Rem. And those people who offered Christ to Him in type, He clothed them with Christ -- the priest that offered the sacrifice received the skin; it is wonderful, isn't it?

G.R.C. Yes. The riches of the glory. Who wants anything of the world if he knows anything of this -- "the riches of the glory of this mystery". A little obscure company meeting in an obscure place -- and

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many of the brethren are meeting in very obscure places just now -- but Christ is among them!

Rem. Paul was a type of the true Bezaleel, erecting the tabernacle: "present every man". How he laboured to erect that tabernacle in relation to Christ; what toil he had, didn't he?

G.R.C. And we need to go in for this work. It is "toil", because the enemy is so busy to spoil this, as we know very well, so that there may be no experience of it at the present time.

Rem. So that it is not only toil here, but combating.

G.R.C. Yes, conflict in prayer.

Rem. So that what is amongst us should be more real than the tabernacle. I was thinking of what Hebrews says -- "a shadow of heavenly things", Hebrews 8.

G.R.C. That is just it, a shadow. We form part of the real thing. So that in chapter 3 of Colossians, Paul speaks of the new man which we profess to have put on. The tabernacle was all characterised by the new man -- the new man is Christ in the saints. We profess to have put it on. He says "having put off the old man" -- that is our profession -- "and having put on the new". That is what every Christian professes to have done, even at his baptism: "For ye, as many as have been baptised unto Christ, have put on Christ", Galatians 3:27. He has left his old man in the grave and he has put on the new. Paul says, 'just be true to what you have done, that is all'. In the new man Christ is everything -- everything as object, and everything as character; "Christ is everything, and in all".

Ques. Why should that word come at the beginning of the verse: "Do not lie ..."?

G.R.C. That is our unruly member; according to James, if that unruly member is under control the whole body is under control. So we can test ourselves

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that way -- that is a continual challenge.

Rem. It is a small member, but what damage it can do!

G.R.C. You see, if other sins come in: wrath, anger, malice, blasphemy, vile language; all these things are connected with the tongue -- in addition to the earlier list in verse 5, fornication, uncleanness, vile passions, and so on! All those things begin with the tongue getting into mischief. If we enter into wrong relationship with people, it almost always comes about with speaking first.

Now, to go on to Ephesians for a moment, it is not so much a particular locality in mind, although Paul was thinking of the Ephesian saints. But it is a kind of climax of the line we are on; the Christ dwelling in each of our hearts by faith. Well, Christ could not dwell -- because of the idea of dwelling is restfulness -- if there is a rival. And "the Christ" suggests an apprehension of the glory of the Person and the glory of the offices He fills -- we had some sense of that this morning. And as such, He is dwelling unrivalled in our hearts by faith. If that was so, we should walk by faith; faith would govern us every moment of the day -- not the things that are seen, but the things that are not seen which are eternal; they are all centred in Christ. The Spirit makes room for Christ, and if Christ has this place, that makes room for all the fulness of God -- "that ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God".

Rem. You could not get beyond that, could you?

G.R.C. No. God has brought us out from what we have lived in as a system -- a seen system. There have been the unseen realities enjoyed -- I am not belittling all that has gone on that has been right -- but nevertheless we have been living more and more in a seen system. And the more you do that, the less you are taking account of the saints according to new creation. Social links, family links, national

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links; all get mixed up, and the real point of new creation in the saints and living with one another on those lines begins to fade away; and then Christ hasn't His place among us as the Ark. He is not the great Centre of attraction; all sorts of things are holding us, though we are moving along with believers. I believe God has in mind, however few they may be, to bring us back to these great realities: Romans 8, a real known thing; Colossians, a known thing in our localities; and then this great apprehension of Christ as the Sun and Centre of heaven and earth and enshrined in our hearts as such, so that we shall move on to be filled even to all the fulness of God.

Rem. "Rooted and founded in love". It is wonderful, really; the roots are not seen, and the founding is the result of deep work in the soul.

G.R.C. If there are two or three here or elsewhere really in the good of this -- filled to all fulness of God -- there would be living waters flowing out to all men. There would not be a thirsty soul to go unsatisfied.

Rem. You would impress us that all this is open to us, but it is in the power of the Holy Spirit.

G.R.C. Yes.

Rem. In these verses we get the riches of His glory brought in again -- to be strengthened with power by His Spirit in the inner man. The apprehension of the riches of His glory would help us on that line, that we might be filled even to all the fulness of God.

G.R.C. It is a touching expression, because it is the Father's Spirit that strengthens us, that our hearts, in our measure, might be able to take in what He has conceived and what is always before His heart. First of all, His Beloved, His Anointed, that our hearts might share with the Father's heart, by the strengthening of His Spirit, to take in the greatness and the blessedness and the affection of His Anointed Man;

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and then the whole system centred on Him. The Father bringing us in power into what is always before His heart, and that it should be always before ours.

Rem. You would say without hesitation that there is nothing for God and nothing for us apart from the Spirit!

G.R.C. No; the Spirit is the Truth. As far as anything is down here, it is in the Spirit. Christ is the Truth above -- the truth as it is in Jesus glorified -- and there is nothing down here on earth for God outside the Spirit and His work.

Rem. Perhaps you would say something on "the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge"!

G.R.C. I wish I could; it gives you a sense of endless satisfaction, doesn't it -- "to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge".

Rem. Breadth and length and depth and height; you can't conceive it, can you? But you just get a little impression of it. It suffices, really.

G.R.C. On earth you can only get length and breadth and height.

Rem. Oh!

G.R.C. In fact I think it only speaks of that in connection with the Holy Spirit. But when you come to God, it is depth; and the love of the Christ, it is depth. Breadth and length and depth and height.

Rem. Jesus moved downward in the expression of that love; I was wondering what your thought was in relation to God!

G.R.C. I hardly know what to say about it; it speaks of "the depths of God", 1 Corinthians 2; the depths of Calvary's woe. They were expressed in the coming down; the coming down of Christ and His going down into death.

Ques. What is the difference between "rooted" and "founded"?

G.R.C. One is husbandry and the other is building.

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The saints are always viewed in both ways. As husbandry, we are individually objects of infinite Divine care and attention; our roots need to be in love; but as viewed together, we are building. And our foundation needs to be in love, otherwise we shall not be held together for the building: "Prepare thy work without, and put thy field in order, and afterwards build thy house", Proverbs 24:27. The two are interdependent; the house is no good without a field with plantation to support life in the house.