In view of the great interest felt, not only in the United States and Canada, but also in England and elsewhere, as to the meetings of which notes are now published, it has been thought well to give a brief sketch of the order in which they took place, and to call attention to some of the most important subjects which came under consideration.

Having regard to the fact that not more than five weeks were available for them, and that the distances to be travelled were in some cases very considerable, it had been decided to select a few places which were fairly central, and to hold at each of these places meetings lasting two or three days.

The meetings began at Quebec on Saturday evening, October 1st, and continued till Tuesday evening, October 4th, when the brethren from England, joined by several who had come to Quebec to meet them, proceeded to Toronto, arriving there on Wednesday evening.

The readings at Quebec on Monday and Tuesday were on Romans 3 to 8, and were both interesting and helpful, but as much of the ground was gone over more fully at other places, it has been decided not to print them. The two evening addresses are published.

The meetings at Toronto occupied Thursday and Friday, and were very well attended. As this was the real beginning of the subjects which occupied most of the readings at other places, some general remarks are made further on which may be helpful as indicating the main features of the ministry. They are, however, in no sense exhaustive, and do not pretend to do more than direct attention to certain points of importance, the details of which will be found in the readings themselves. On Saturday, October 8th, the visitors, with still further additions, continued their journey to

Rochester and remained there until the afternoon of Wednesday, the 12th, Here also there was a large attendance and much interest. Quite a number came in from various parts of the continent, including places so far distant as California and the Northwest Territory, and as this involved considerable expenditure of both time and money it is a fair indication of the interest felt in the meetings. Amongst the printed notes will be found a gospel address given on Lord's day evening, and a lecture on Monday evening. The subject of Tuesday evening's lecture was 'The New Covenant', but as the publication of all the addresses would require too much space, a selection of those thought most suitable for printing was made at the conclusion of the meetings.

A much reduced number left Rochester for Minneapolis, but finding there was special interest at Chicago, it was arranged to have meetings there on Thursday and Friday, and the result quite justified this departure from the original plan. The meetings were small, being attended only by those living in the city, and as no general notes were taken on this occasion, only one evening's address is printed. Leaving Chicago after the evening meeting, Minneapolis was reached on Saturday afternoon. Here a number had assembled from scattered gatherings in the Northwest, including several from Winnipeg, and all seemed to enjoy greatly the opportunity of coming together and the fellowship of their brethren.

The meetings continued till Tuesday evening, the 18th.

On the following day the visitors returned to Chicago en route to Indianapolis, reaching their destination on Thursday morning, October 20th. On Saturday, brethren arrived from various places, and when the meetings began there was again a representative company. On the evening of Tuesday the regular meetings ended, though by special request there was an additional

reading on John's epistle, but as notes were not taken on this occasion, it does not appear in the book. Those who were going eastward left the same afternoon for Baltimore, where meetings were held on Thursday evening and Friday, but as these (like those at Chicago) were more local in character, the notes are not published.

On Saturday afternoon, October 29th, there was again a representative gathering at Plainfield (in the vicinity of New York), and meetings were continued until Tuesday evening, November 1st, after which the general gatherings came to an end.

Those who were free went on Wednesday to Cambridgeport (Boston), where there were meetings during Thursday.

On Friday those returning to England came back to New York, where a farewell reading was held that night, the visitors sailing for Liverpool on Saturday morning, November 5th, arriving in safety the following Saturday.

It has not been thought necessary to publish any notes of the readings which were held each Lord's day afternoon. They were special in character, and the subjects were: QUEBEC, John 13; ROCHESTER, Matthew 16; MINNEAPOLIS, John 20; INDIANAPOLIS, John 14; PLAINFIELD, John 16.

In each case what was taken up bore upon 'the assembly', either directly, or as indicating the needed preparation morally for those who are to enter into and enjoy its privileges. The pleasure the Lord finds in the company of His own, and all that He has done and still does to lead them to appreciate this, was frequently touched upon, as the understanding of it is really necessary if we are to enter in spirit into what the assembly is.

For reasons easily understood the gospel addresses, with the one exception already named, have not been published.

Returning now to the reading meetings, it may be said that the real start of the general subjects was at Toronto, when the truth of the Kingdom was taken up from Matthew 18, and the remarks that follow arise out of that and the subsequent readings at other places.

The kingdom is, so to speak, a moral necessity, man being what he is, if God is to have to say to him, Until a soul has come under the moral sway of God -- having learnt Him as a Saviour God -- so that it is established in grace, it is difficult if not impossible for one to enter into the calling and purpose of God for him. The kingdom was here in a sense when Christ was on earth, but it was really established when He took His place at the right hand of God and all things were put under Him. He that owns Jesus as Lord comes under the moral sway of grace. He learns not only that there is a kingdom that cannot be moved, but that the power and security which belong to it are on his behalf. The Holy Spirit is here to maintain that kingdom, and does so now in spiritual power in the souls of believers. In a coming day the kingdom will be displayed publicly and everything that offends will be cast out of it. When a soul has received this kingdom as a little child, so that one is morally in it, he is in a condition to learn God's disposition towards him, as well as what He has done to meet his need.

This disposition comes out in the new covenant, and it might almost be summed up in one word, 'Love', which is the nature of God. The blood sets it forth, and as we read in Romans 5, "the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us".

Thus far we are speaking of what is for man, but when we come to reconciliation, we come to what God has wrought for Himself, and that brings in what is new.

Peace being made by the blood of His (Christ's) cross, in which the old man was entirely set aside, all

that is suited to God can now be found in the new man, and only there. There is a new creation, and all things are of God who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5. Where distance was before, there is now perfect complacency.

When this has been apprehended by the soul it learns that God's purpose for the believer is association with Christ. He is not merely seen as "risen with him through the faith of the operation of God", but is made to live (quickened) together with Christ, and this really brings us to eternal life -- life in association with Christ outside of and beyond the reach of death. It will be actually made good in "the world to come".

Such is the order in which these truths are presented to the believer, and in which sooner or later they have to be learned, but, whilst the light of them is for all, their experimental apprehension involves a surrender which all are not prepared to make.

As regards 'eternal life', difficulties have been caused in some minds by the assumption that because the word 'eternal' is used therefore the expression 'eternal life' is intended to describe a condition of existence before time began, and also a condition of existence when time has ceased to be. It has been applied to the life of divine Persons before revelation and incarnation, and almost universally to the life of believers in the Father's house and in the eternal state.

Now in the Old Testament, as well as in many passages of the New Testament, it is quite clear that it refers to a condition of life on earth and not in heaven, and it is believed that it will be found on examination that the usual presentation of it in Scripture is in contrast with death, "the world to come" being the sphere of its display. One great feature of that world is that the power of death is set aside, either by resurrection or by the great change which will take place when "death is swallowed up in victory". It must not be forgotten that the heavenly saints of that

day will enjoy their calling in its heavenly character, whilst earthly saints will enjoy eternal life in the place where death has been; christians now get it morally in the knowledge of the only true God (the Father) and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.

It is quite a mistake to suppose that a believer loses anything by correcting any defective or erroneous use of terms. What the believer actually has now is the Spirit in him as a well of water springing up to eternal life. In "the world to come" he will be even as to his body in the scene of life eternal, but he loses the true meaning and present good of what God has been pleased to make known if he uses the term simply to mean eternal security or future existence in heaven.

It was also pointed out that the presence of the Holy Spirit to maintain the kingdom here in power involves certain important consequences.

If God is here He must have a dwelling, and this introduces the house of God; but the presence of the Holy Spirit also involves the body, for "by one Spirit are we all baptised into one body"; and when we have learned spiritually to apprehend these truths we are prepared to understand and appreciate what Christ's assembly is. That it is and must be outside of the world system is quite clear, and therefore to enter into it in our souls as a practical reality it is necessary to have overcome the world. As this overcoming is presented in 1 John 5 in such a way as to indicate its necessity if we are to enter upon eternal life, it is not difficult to understand the close connection between eternal life and the assembly.

In the Old Testament we find three great thoughts as to God: blessing, dwelling, and ruling. These thoughts are made good in christianity, but we get them in the inverse order. We come under His moral sway in the kingdom, we form His house, and then in the assembly we taste the blessing, "eternal life".

Another side of the truth was brought out at the

Indianapolis meeting in connection with 'the world to come', viz, that God has a completely new system or order of things, and one which is wholly according to His own mind, established in connection with Christ risen from the dead and seated at His own right hand. Amongst the leading features of this new system we find a mercy-seat from which God can speak, a throne of grace, the rule of man over all God's works, God's house, God's rest, the priest, the forerunner gone in, the better hope by which we draw nigh to God, the new covenant, perfect purgation and a sanctified company.

In "the world to come" all this will be displayed, but we have the light of it now, and if we walk in it we shall prove its practical effect in separating us from "this present evil world". The attractive power of the love of Him who is the centre of everything in it is that which draws the heart out of things here.

It may be well to add, in reference to the thought of 'salvation', an expression of frequent occurrence, that it does not appear to be ordinarily used in Scripture as meaning forgiveness of sins, or escape from God as a Judge, but rather in the sense of liberation from the power of the enemy, the setting free now from the power of sin and Satan those who had hitherto been led captive by him.

'Deliverance', as we use it, would seem to apply more to the practical working out of this salvation in the details of life.

In concluding these remarks, it may be added that on looking back at what came out at the different meetings there is evidence of a gradual progress which was hardly noticed as they went on, and the spirit of liberty and hearty fellowship which characterised them was a cause of great thankfulness.

J.S.A.

THE COMPLETE SERVICE OF CHRIST -- AS NEIGHBOUR, REVEALER, AND TEACHER

Address by F.E.R.

Luke 10:21 - 42; Luke 11:1 - 13

I have read this passage because it is a turning point in the truth of this particular gospel. The passage indicates what was at that moment extremely important; viz., the transition from law to grace. The change which was coming in was from Judaism to christianity. It is in that sense that the name of the Father is brought in. The Lord speaks of all things being delivered to Him of His Father and that no man knoweth who the Son is but the Father, and who the Father is but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal Him, and that is an indication of the great change which was coming in.

The law was inefficacious to help man and it did not content God because it was inefficient. The priest and the Levite passed by on the other side. Though the law might be perfect in itself, it did not suit God because it did not benefit man. The law had to give way for the kingdom. The kingdom was coming in in connection with the Lord Jesus, who was the expression of the grace of God. We read elsewhere the law was given by Moses; grace and truth are come to pass by Jesus Christ. He was the blessed expression of the grace of God. The rule of grace was on the point of coming in; it is that transition to which I refer; and I desire to take up two or three points in connection with the parable of the good Samaritan, and then to pass on to the incidents by which it is followed. If you take the whole passage, it shows how Christ has been pleased to become the servant of man. He is the neighbour, and afterwards the revealer; and

then in the beginning of chapter 11 He is the teacher. I think all that comes out in a striking way.

Now I call your attention to a verse or two that precede the parable -- chapter 10, verses 22 and 24. It is certain that the moment was remarkable, and this is indicated by the Lord in saying, "many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see and have not seen them, and to hear those things which ye hear and have not heard them". I think He refers to the kingdom. Prophets and kings had looked forward to the kingdom; they were taught to; it was the burden of the Old Testament. What I understand by the kingdom is a power here for man, that can subjugate all the power of evil. That is what came to light in the Person of the Lord Jesus. There was a power acting in grace in man's favour that was superior to all the evil that was here. There was no expression of evil upon earth that could stand before the presence of Christ. He began by binding the strong man, and set to work to spoil his goods. That is what Christ was doing here on earth.

This is beautifully put by the apostle Peter in the beginning of the Acts of the Apostles: "who went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil, for God was with him". There was a power here superior to the power of evil, and acting in grace for man. That was the beginning of the kingdom. It has come out now in a much greater way by the Lord Jesus having gone to the right hand of God, and the Holy Spirit being here; but there was the beginning of the kingdom. The Pharisees came to the Lord and asked Him when the kingdom of God should come; and He replied the kingdom of God does not come with observation, but is among you. It was there in their midst. He was the expression of it in power and grace. The Lord referred to that in what He spoke here to the disciples. I do not suppose that the eyes of many were opened to understand

the character of the moment, and yet He said to them, "Blessed are your eyes".

Then there follows the parable of the good Samaritan. I will say one word about parables which it is important to remember. A parable serves often to hide the truth from the uninstructed. I think you have to bear that in mind, and you could not understand a parable if you have not someone to explain it. The Lord says, "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand". He did not speak parables to make the truth plain, but in a sense to hide it. But then He explains the parables to His disciples. If there were any who had ears to hear, or eyes to see, the Lord became the expounder. Now we have the Holy Spirit to expound to us the parables of the Lord. I ask you, do you think you would be able to understand the parable of the good Samaritan without an expositor?

I will bring before you one point in the parable which illustrates the service of the Lord Jesus. The parable is spoken in answer to a question as to man's neighbour. The questioner was a lawyer who stood up to tempt Christ. It was not the case of a person genuinely inquiring after the truth, and the Lord answered him in a parable. The truth was there, but the truth was veiled. If the Lord was questioned as to who was man's neighbour, there was but one answer for Christ to give, for He Himself was man's neighbour. He might hide this truth in a parable, but there was no other answer possible when He was present here on earth. The priests and Levites were not men's neighbour. They could not benefit man. Priest and Levite passed by on the other side. They could not act the neighbour in relieving the man that needed. That is what made me say at the beginning that the passage teaches the transition from law to grace. Man here on earth cannot be helped but by the ministry

of grace. The ministry of law is no power to raise up man. The priests and Levites were ineffective, and God was not content with them because they were ineffective. What marks this moment is "the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men". The truth comes out here in connection with man's neighbour. I have no doubt that in the parable of the good Samaritan we have the presentation of the grace of God in Christ. He was the expression and exponent of the grace of God, and hence is man's true neighbour. He is exactly what man needs; He came close to man, not in the way of judgment, but for man's deliverance, in order that he might be set free from that which oppressed him. Man was oppressed by the power of evil, the world and the devil, and grace has come to him to deliver him from the oppression.

I take up two or three points in connection with the neighbour. There were three things which he did for the man that fell among thieves; first he relieved him, he came to him pouring in oil and wine; then he set him on his own beast, he provided support for him; and finally brought him to an inn and took care of him. He cared for him all the time the man needed care. The thought of an inn is connected with journeying; an inn is not a place where people live, where a man is at home, but where he sojourns on a journey.

I dwell on these things because we have in them a beautiful expression of the grace of God. It is wonderful to see how complete the grace of God is in regard to man; God relieves, and carries and cares for those who are relieved. The great relief that God gives to man is salvation; not only is man relieved from the fear of judgment, but God delivers him from the bondage in which he is held. If I were to picture the condition of man, he has certainly fallen among thieves, he is stripped of his innocence, of that which

he had at the hand of God, and left half dead, at all events in regard of God. On the other hand, God has come in to emancipate man from the power of evil. The grace of God takes account of man as in bondage, and has come in to give deliverance to the soul of man, that he may be like a bird delivered out of the snare of the fowler. It is the grace of God that brings salvation to men that has appeared. Go wherever you will on the face of the earth, you will find men's souls in bondage; they are in bondage to lust and Satan, and are kept away by them from God. It was true of the Jew and of the heathen. When the Lord came into the world the Jew was in bondage; they were the servants of sin; the poor heathen were in idolatry; and the grace of God came in to deliver them. If I look at professing christians today, they are in bondage to formality and sacramentalism, to the prince of this world; and the grace of God has come in to give them salvation, that they may have to say to God; that there may be in them the well of water springing up to everlasting life. Would to God that everybody here was set free.

But supposing a person is set free; grace does another thing; it carries him; provides support. The believer is not under law, but under grace. Support is found. I have no doubt the power is the Holy Spirit. The soul is emancipated, and the Holy Spirit is given that the one who has been relieved may be carried by the power of God.

Then he is taken care of; Christ has provided for that; there is care for the saints down here; fellowship and support and encouragement. The soul is taken care of all the time it is here.

A great many christians may not get the benefit of these things, because they are entangled in what is not according to God. If you go God's way you will get the benefit of what is provided. What I maintain is that the care of Christ is complete; not only has He

provided salvation, but saints are carried and cared for that they may lack nothing, but that they may be perfectly furnished and provided for all the time they are down here.

The fact is that most of us are unwilling to have our own props knocked away. Many lean on society and formalism and other things, and God comes in in His blessed grace to knock away these props. It is a great moment when you come to this -- I have Christ to care for me, and I want no other care. "He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them". It is a joy to be cared for by Christ; He is not too great to care for me. Christ has put Himself, as it were, at the service of man, come where he was to furnish him with everything so long as he needs care. The apostle Paul proved the care of Christ; there were many critical moments in his path, and at every critical moment the Lord appeared to him; and at the end of his career, he can say, "the Lord stood with me and strengthened me, that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the gentiles might hear, and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion", He had to say all forsook him, but the Lord stood by him. In what I have said so far, we have only had the beginning of christianity; the service of the high priest is the beginning of christianity, not the end. "We have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need", That is the beginning of our christianity. If you study the epistle to the Hebrews, you will find that the point is, so far, that you may hold fast the profession.

Now if you accept that, there is something more which Christ has to teach you: He becomes the

revealer, and I think He stood in that position to Mary. Martha did not get the benefit, because she was too much taken up with herself and her service. Many are like that, and miss the revelation of Christ. When a soul is established in a sense of His care, then He becomes the revealer. Mary was conscious of this, that He had something to reveal. His word is what He reveals. I have no doubt what He reveals is the Father. It is one thing to have a sense of the care of Christ; it is another to listen to His word, as to what He has to reveal. A great many christians are content to have the knowledge of salvation, to have received the gift of the Holy Spirit, and to realise the care of Christ, like the man who fell among thieves; but there is something more, He will reveal to you the Father. He would make you conscious of the Father's love and counsels. I am sure His word was very beautiful, and Mary got the good of it. Mary of Bethany was not at the tomb when Christ rose; Mary of Magdala was. Mary of Bethany had confidence in His resurrection, and did not stay to watch for Him. The point where many christians stop short is that they do not get the declaration of Christ. The Lord Jesus says in John 17, "I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them". No one can make the Father's love and counsel effectively known to you except Christ Himself. The soul is first made conscious that it has come into contact with Christ Himself. That is how it gets the benefit of what He reveals. I can understand someone saying, is it not revealed in Scripture? I quite admit it, but I am sure if you are to get the benefit of what is revealed, the soul must be in contact with Christ Himself. If He carries me and cares for me, my part is henceforth to live to Him who died for me and rose again, and if I live to Him, I am attentive to what He has declared, and that is the Father's love

and counsel. You learn thus what your place is with the Father. It has been the Father's pleasure to bring you into the place of sons; that is the fruit of Christ having revealed the Father's name.

Now there is one point more, which comes out in the beginning of the next chapter: Christ is not revealing here; He is teaching, "Lord, teach us to pray". You could not be taught how to pray unless He had revealed the Father. It is because the Father has been made known to you that you pray to the Father. He teaches you to pray to the Father. How do you cry Abba Father but by the Spirit of God's Son? It is the same One who has made known the Father's love and counsel that teaches you to pray "Abba, Father". Christ leads us by the Spirit to address ourselves to the Father, in all confidence that the Father is good, and that we will be heard, and that we will have the petitions that we desire. "How much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him". Of course the Spirit has been given now, but my point is that in regard to prayer Christ is the teacher; "because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying Abba, Father". The Lord Jesus taught the disciples that the Father Himself loved them because they had loved Him and had believed that He came out from God. The great point of the Lord in John 16 was to encourage the disciples to address themselves in His name to the Father, and they would surely be heard.

The impression I want to leave upon you is of the complete service of Christ. Christ has touched us and He does not cease to touch us. It is that He may gain our attention, and having done that, He teaches us how to demean ourselves in regard to the Father. May God grant we may know Him a little better as neighbour, revealer, and teacher.

PROVISION FOR THE WILDERNESS -- PRIESTHOOD AND THE WATER OF PURIFICATION

Address by F.E.R.

Numbers 16:46 - 48; Numbers 17:1 - 13; Numbers 19:1 - 10

It is important to bear in mind that whatsoever things were written aforetime, were written for our learning. They were not written for those who lived at the time. The things recorded happened to them as examples, but the record of them is for us. Therefore we go back to these things and take them up as types. We get now the anti-type, that is the reality. We get a great deal of typical teaching in the Old Testament. We often find in the Old Testament the detail of things; in the New we have the principles and facts. In the Old Testament you get the sacrifice of Christ in detail; in the New, the fact. I think that you will understand my purpose in turning to the book of Numbers.

Numbers is the book of the wilderness. It is the order and march of the people through the wilderness. They were numbered twice; at the beginning of the wilderness period, and again at the end. God took account thus of His people. The second numbering had reference to the people who were to come into the inheritance in the land of promise. The first had reference to the people in their responsibility, those that came out of Egypt. Now the wilderness is where the people of God are tested. It is in the circumstances of the way. We have to meet a great many things in the wilderness, and they bring out pretty much what people are. Everything comes to light, and that is what God intends. His mind in regard to us is to know all that is in our hearts, every bit of crookedness is to come out, that we may know it and judge it.

There is no harm by it if we walk in self-judgment. It does not come out into effect.

The children of Israel walked in the wilderness forty years, and in the book of Deuteronomy you see the Spirit of God moralising upon it. He proved them, to know all that was in their heart, that He might do them good in their latter end. The contrariety of the flesh comes out. In the first sixteen chapters of the book of Numbers you find the different ways in which the perverseness of the flesh manifested itself. The very character of the book shows the divine nature of Scripture. God had a people in the wilderness; they had God's care, daily provision for their need, manna from heaven, water from the rock; but in spite of that the terrible perverseness of the flesh came out, and I think God intended it should come out. The answer to it on the part of God was the brazen serpent, in chapter 21. The flesh was proved incorrigible, and there was nothing except for it to be condemned, which took place typically in the brazen serpent, in order that God might give the Spirit. The man that trusts his own heart is a fool. They that are in the flesh cannot please God. There is nothing for us now but the Spirit of Christ, and the Spirit lusts against the flesh. They are irreconcilable.

There are two things which God has provided for His people in the wilderness. I do not speak now of the manna, and the water from the smitten rock, but of the help which God has been pleased to provide for His people in the wilderness, that we may be carried through it. The object of God's provision is that we may hold fast our profession, or, in other words, as the Lord said to Peter, "that thy faith fail not". The two things to which I refer are priesthood and the water of purification. Priesthood comes out in chapter 17, and the water of purification in chapter 19, and God has provided both. Israel had them in type, for they had Aaron, who was the type of

Christ, and the water of purification in connection with the red heifer; we have them both in reality.

God has been pleased in His grace to provide for us priesthood; He is able to save unto the uttermost those who come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them. And not only priesthood, but the water of purification, that we may be maintained in separation from the influences of sin and the world. The object of God is to keep us in consistency with the death of Christ, and the water of purification comes in to that end. To start with, we are baptised to the death of Christ, and in the wilderness we have to be maintained in the truth of that death. We never ought to be inconsistent with His death. The Lord's supper is the fellowship of His death, and I think we are maintained by the water of separation in consistency with the death of Christ.

Now a word in regard to priests. In Numbers 16:47, 48 it says, "And Aaron took as Moses commanded, and ran into the midst of the congregation, and behold the plague was begun among the people, and he put on incense and made an atonement for the people; and he stood between the dead and the living, and the plague was stayed". I read that passage for the statement, "he stood between the dead and the living". Before referring to that, I want to say a little as to the distinction between the priest and the mediator. Moses in the economy of Israel was mediator, and Aaron was priest; that is, the two offices were distinct. Moses was mediator, because he made known to Israel all the mind of God. Aaron was priest, for he represented the people before God; that is a simple distinction to apprehend. You will find that distinction maintained through the early books of the Old Testament. God spoke to Moses from off the mercy-seat for the children of Israel, and, on the other hand, Aaron was the representative of the people in the presence of God; hence

Aaron had to stand between the dead and the living.

Now in christianity, which is the anti-type, you have a contrast to this; for the mediator and the priest are combined in the one Person. Christ is mediator and priest. Still the same fundamental difference remains. The mediator is the one in whom God has been pleased to communicate His mind. The priest, on the other hand, is on behalf of the people that are in relation with God. You have to keep that distinction in view, or you cannot understand the distinction. The living and the dead are distinguished by the priest. On the other hand, there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all. When Christ died the mind of God was expressed toward all. His death took place in the presence of men, both gentile and Jew; every kind of man was there, and the expression of God's mind in the mediator is that God would have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. The most wonderful testimony ever given was the death of Christ.

But Christ is also priest, and though we can speak of Him on the cross as mediator, we can never speak of His being priest until resurrection. Until resurrection death lay before Him. He was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, that He by the grace of God should taste death for everything. He could not take priesthood therefore until resurrection, for He is priest after the power of an endless life, and that came to pass in resurrection.

I think that will show you the difference between the mediator and the priest, and how it is that the priest stands between the dead and the living. Christ did not become priest until He went to the right hand of God. You see that in Psalm 110. It is said, "Sit thou at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool", and then it is added, "Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec". On

the cross He was victim, but He is now exalted to God's right hand, and there it is He is spoken of as priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. The type of resurrection, of life out of death, is found in chapter 17, in the budding of Aaron's rod. The token of priesthood was in the rod that budded; that man whose rod budded was chosen priest. Aaron's rod budded, brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms and yielded almonds. It was the manifestation of the power of life in a dry rod. It is remarkable to see the truth of that coming out so early. Redemption had to be accomplished before you could get priesthood, for priesthood is established on the basis of righteousness. Priesthood belongs to a people which stand in relationship with God. We could have no place before God except on the ground of righteousness; we must be justified or there would be no place for us except judgment. We are justified freely by God's grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; redemption must come in before priesthood, hence priesthood must of necessity be in resurrection.

Now I will turn to a passage in Hebrews 7:15-17, which will confirm this. The endless life in man was to come out in resurrection. "Thou gavest him length of days for ever". In verse 24, it says, "this man because he continueth ever hath an unchangeable priesthood". That is proof that He could not be priest before He died. There is no break in the continuity of the priest. The work of offering being done, He is made priest.

He stands now between the living and the dead. The priest, not the mediator, is the test of men; the appropriation of the priest is the test of life. If you could find out the people in the world who appropriate the priest, then you have got the living. "He that eateth me, even he shall live by me". Eating is the sign as well as the support of life.

We are as christians conscious of infirmities; we

are unable to support ourselves. I cannot carry myself. What you want is succour; you want the service of the priest, and thus it is that the priest is appropriated, and you are entitled to appropriate Him. "He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them". The appropriation of the priest is the sign of a living christian. I believe the appropriation of the priest connects itself with the affections of the saints to the Lord. The apostle said, "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha". The affection of saints to Christ is drawn out by the knowledge that He sympathises with their infirmities.

We are conscious of being but poor weak things down here, but want to hold fast our profession, to be found faithful. How is this to be brought about in the face of everything to which we are exposed? The longer you live the more conscious you become that you need support. You realise the need of being carried and cared for by another, and the service of Christ as priest comes in to that end.

When the Lord said to Peter (not that He was priest then), "I have prayed for thee that thy faith fail not", I think that in principle priesthood was coming out. Not in a formal way, but the idea was there. When Peter had denied Christ the danger was that he should give up faith. Now intercession had come in that his faith should not fail. After his fall he weeps bitterly, and that was the fruit of the intercession of Christ. I think the service of Christ goes on a point still further with regard to Peter, namely, to his complete restoration. It has been said that Peter was restored in conscience before he was restored in heart. In John 21 the Lord deals with Peter until he is restored completely, that is, until the bottom of the matter had been reached with him, The Lord challenged Peter as often as Peter had denied Him. I

have no doubt we have to learn, perhaps by failure in some shape or other, our weakness, and in connection with that the gracious, patient service of Christ. He is bent on the restoration of His people if they have failed. When difficulties come in to test, saints commonly turn to man; but by far the best thing is to turn to Christ. Do you think Christ has any pleasure in people being turned from the way? Do you not think He would take a great deal of pains to prevent you being turned aside from the path? If, instead of listening to man, saints counted on the grace of Christ, they would be conscious that He would do all to keep them in the path.

As I have said, the priest stands between the living and the dead; and the proof of life is the appropriation and appreciation of Christ. And if you fail of that, there is very little sign of life in you. Professing christians do not trouble about the priest; they are sufficient in themselves without the priest. They think perhaps that they can support themselves in difficult circumstances. It is a mistake. In coming to the priest you get sympathy and succour. The practical effect is that you come boldly to the throne of grace to obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. The priest is, I judge, connected with the kingdom; the kingdom is maintained for us effectively by the priest, in that the throne of grace is ever available for the saints; that is the truth as to the priest.

One word more about the priest -- the priesthood is the expression of Christ's affection. We find this in Romans 8:33, 34. You have there the priest. "It is Christ that died, yea rather that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us". Mark what is added, "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?" It is a very poor thing if you do not enjoy the affection of Christ. I would ask, do you not think that Christ loves you

perfectly, and because of His love He makes intercession that you may not be turned aside? He stands between the living and the dead. He makes intercession for saints, not in the mass, but individually. To Peter He said, "I have prayed for thee". He knew Peter was self-confident, and would rush into a position for which he was not equal. I do not think Christ loved Peter any more than He does any saint here. I would not care for a priest who did not love me; in the lack of that is the folly and weakness of official human priesthood. Those who are served by those priests have not the affection of the priests. Two things must mark a priest if he is to be of any service, and they are affection and strength. The high priest in Israel bore the names of the children of Israel not only upon the breastplate, but on his shoulders. The same thing is true in Christ, there is not only love, but power. Christ has affection for saints individually and there is strength to bear His people.

I add a word in regard to the water of separation; you see we are in the wilderness, and I understand that to be a scene of death. I have never been in a real wilderness, but have no doubt if there one would frequently come across the signs of death. In the wilderness there must be an immense amount of death, and no burial; so it is with us here in the world. Who can go through the world without coming in contact with the evidences of moral death? You see them all around, and we are ever in danger of defilement. Things which people speak of as being comparatively innocent in the world savour of death, and tend to contaminate, and it cannot be otherwise. The mind of the flesh is death. Its purpose and bent is death.

Do you think if the world were alive in the sight of God it would give itself up to dress and gaiety? The whole thing is a scene of moral death. The place of the christian is very simple, namely, that of death

to it. We are buried in baptism to Christ's death, and have to maintain that truth, to walk in separation from everything that is dominant in the world. We have to be on the alert that we are not contaminated by the influences about us. The water of purification is a water of separation from the contamination of the world. The heifer was burned outside the camp, that is where the sin-offering was burned, and there was one remarkable feature about it, that typically the glory of the world system was cast into the burning; all from the most distinguished, the cedar, to the most insignificant, the hyssop. The death of Christ is the stain on the glory of this world. Where Christ was made sin, all the glory of man was cast into the burning. As the apostle says, "God forbid that I should glory save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me and I unto the world". That is the position of the christian down here, and the desire of every true christian would be that he might be maintained in consistency with the death of Christ. Not a single bit of the glory of this world is for God.

May God give a greater appreciation of the cross of Christ. It was the end of man in the flesh for God, and if so, do not talk about the glory of man. In the presence of the death of Christ, the glory of the world is dross and dung. But we have the water of purification, and the priest in all His affection; and who shall separate us from the love of Christ?

THE KINGDOM

Reading, Revised by F.E.R.

Matthew 18:1 - 34

R.S.S. You seem to have in your mind "the calling". What do you mean by that?

F.E.R. I think the one thing that the christian has to learn is the calling of God; and everything else is subordinate to that. It is important to know God's ways in government, but everything is subordinate to the calling.

J.S.A. And salvation is a means to that end, not the end.

F.E.R. Yes, it is plain enough that you could not touch the calling without salvation, but salvation is brought in that you may apprehend the calling.

G.R. Is the calling the relationships and blessings in which we are set as christians?

F.E.R. It is the distinctive place which God has been pleased to give us before Him. It is connected with the purpose of God.

J.P. And if it is the great thing before God, it ought to be the great thing before us.

F.E.R. Take Israel, everything for them was to understand their calling, and the great thing for the church is to apprehend its calling. The difficulty is that, properly speaking, it lies outside of what we are as men upon earth and therefore must be apprehended abstractly.

J.P. And salvation has been presented so much as an ultimatum.

W.M. The two things are brought together in the one verse, "Who hath saved us and called us with an holy calling".

R.S.S. We have been accustomed to think that we have been called out of darkness into salvation:

"whom he called, them he also justified". The calling comes before justification.

F.E.R. You get the calling of God in the passage, "all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose". Calling is used in two senses; there is a kind of call in the gospel, which does not involve that all are chosen -- and there is the calling of God's purpose.

B. The calling connects us rather with Christ in His present place as man.

J.S.A. God's calling for Israel was connected with the land, but it was necessary for them to be taken out of Egypt for that. They must be freed from the power of the enemy. They were more willing to take the first step than the second.

J.P. "He brought them out that he might bring them in".

B. The heavenly calling is connected with a heavenly Christ.

F.E.R. What I refer to is an expression that you find in Ephesians 1:18. That is God's calling. The apostle prays "that ye may know what is the hope of his calling".

C.W. We get the calling of the gospel in the Galatians, "called me by his grace".

F.E.R. Exactly so.

B. Would 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14, make it clear?

F.E.R. That looks on to the end, "the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ".

W.M. Does the truth of the kingdom lay the basis for entrance into all this?

F.E.R. It is in the kingdom that God has first displayed Himself, in order to approach man; that is, that man might have a place with God. Evidently, if you take the light of Scripture, the kingdom was the great thing looked on to in the ways of God. I think it was anticipated from the time that sin came into

the world. The law and the prophets came first in the wisdom of God, but neither law nor prophets were the end. Every prophet looks on to the kingdom, while endeavouring at the same time to call the people back to the law, to awaken in them a sense of God's claims. The prophets came on the line of law, but pointing on to the kingdom. The kingdom is the intervention of God for man.

W.M. Faith had always the light of the kingdom.

F.E.R. Yes, I suppose so, in some degree.

J.T. What have you in view in Matthew 18, as to the kingdom?

F.E.R. I think the passage is very important, because it shows you in the beginning of the chapter the condition of entering the kingdom, and at the close the great principle of the kingdom, i.e., grace reigning through righteousness.

J.T. That is, the condition is that of a little child.

F.E.R. To enter the kingdom you have to come down to that point; you cannot enter it otherwise. The principle of the kingdom is grace.

C.W. What is meant by the kingdom? There is difficulty in some minds.

F.E.R. The kingdom is that sway of God which has to be established in the soul of every man; if God is to have to say to man otherwise than in judgment, the kingdom of God must be established in man. Every christian must know the kingdom in himself.

B. Do you mean righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit?

F.E.R. Those are consequences; in the first place the rule of grace must be established. If man has departed from God and gone on in self-will, the first thing God must do is to establish His sway, breaking down man's will.

J.P. That is, God gets His true place morally in the soul.

R.S.S. What sway were we under before?

F.E.R. The authority of darkness; that is, where man is naturally. God has come in to take him out of the authority of darkness, and to translate him into the kingdom of the Son of His love, the One in whom God is expressed. You get the expression of this in Matthew 17 in the transfiguration. There is a pattern of the kingdom of the Son of God's love.

J.S.A. One difficulty is the vague kind of idea that many of us had, that the kingdom was heaven or something of that kind, that is, something you get into by-and-by, instead of an actual present thing in the soul.

R.H. The kingdom is moral and not material.

F.E.R. After a while the kingdom will become manifest, but at the same time its principles will never change; they will always be moral.

J.S.A. In Psalm 72 you get the kingdom very prominent, and also pervading the Psalms.

J.A. "Take Thou our hearts, and let them be forever closed to all but Thee" -- is that the sway under which a man must come?

F.E.R. Yes.

J.S.A. The first step from God was moral opposition; the first step back to Him is moral submission.

F.E.R. How many of us, I wonder, are accustomed to look to the Lord for direction in all the details of life? We are so accustomed to look to man that we do not easily come under the moral sway of grace; we are very apt to act for reasons of advantage or convenience, and that proves that one knows very little about the kingdom.

Ques. When the Lord told His disciples to pray, "Thy kingdom come". Is that the thought?

F.E.R. In a sense, yes.

W.M. We have looked at the kingdom too dispensationally.

F.E.R. That is the rock on which many have split.

G.B. What did the Lord mean when He said, "The kingdom of God is within you"?

F.E.R. I think in principle the kingdom was present in the Person of Christ Himself. The wonderful thing in the kingdom is that you have power on man's behalf superior to all the power of evil. That is what came to pass in Christ being here upon earth. There was power superior to everything that oppressed man. There are three great ideas that are seen in the Old Testament; the first is blessing, the second is dwelling, and the third is ruling.

J.T. And they all come out in connection with the kingdom.

F.E.R. Yes, and they are revealed in the order I indicated, because what comes out in revelation is God's own thought. In application they come out in the inverse order.

J.P. It is the same principle that you get in the instruction as to the tabernacle; it begins with the ark and mercy-seat on God's side; but when you come to the application, you have to start from the brazen altar.

F.E.R. When God reveals His own thought He begins with what is in His own mind, but in man's apprehension and experience we have to begin with the kingdom. The idea in the kingdom is that you have a point of security, like the child who feels secure with its father. I know it as well as possible; there is a point where no adverse power can touch me; so that the kingdom means salvation. You have to confess Christ as Lord and keep your eye there, and there is not a single thing upon earth that can hurt you. If in any matter you only have your eye on Christ, you may be perfectly sure you will be guided aright. It is deplorable to see how in church troubles people run about like a lot of sheep without a shepherd, reading pamphlets, and everything else except going to the Lord. It is a wonder that they are kept right at all.

C.W. So that in confessing the Lord Jesus you not only put yourself under His dominion, but you confide in His heart.

F.E.R. Yes, the name of the Lord is a strong tower; the righteous runs into it and is safe. It is a necessary start. The character of the kingdom is grace; and it will not tolerate anything that is not grace. It is power, but it is the kingdom of grace. If people are legal and hard it is extremely probable that they will come under discipline, for the kingdom will not tolerate anything that is not of grace. Grace will not be a cover for man's will.

G.R. To come back to the child, it is just as the child is subject to the parent, it has the sense of security.

F.E.R. The fact is that if not subject it proves that the child has very little sense of its parent's goodness; and if we are not subject to the Lord Jesus, it proves that we have a very feeble sense of grace.

J.T. Have we connected security too much with eternal life, as in John 10?

F.E.R. Whatever do you want security for in regard of God? You want security against the power of evil.

J.T. What do you mean by that; people do not understand you?

F.E.R. Have you never found people hunting about for this and that, to give them a sense of security as to God?

C.W. Is the reason for it that they thought they were going to approach God, to get a place before Him?

F.E.R. They do not understand the very first principle of the gospel, and that is, God's approach to man. It is the grace of God that bringeth salvation to all men hath appeared. The only way you can know God at all at the present time is as a Saviour God.

J.T. So that the end reached in the close of Romans 8 is that God is for us. I can understand now what you mean when you say that people do not need to look for proof in regard of God.

F.E.R. If they do, it shows they know little or nothing about the character of God. They do not realise that salvation is of His pleasure. It is God's mind in regard to man.

W.M. I suppose a person in the light of that is saved.

F.E.R. He must be; if you know God as a Saviour God you must be saved.

R.S.S. It has helped me, your asking as to why people want assurance.

W.M. It makes the principle of the gospel very simple.

J.T. At the bottom of this question of assurance, there is a great deal of self-consciousness.

F.E.R. Yes, people are not concerned about a knowledge of God, but want assurance about themselves. The secret is, perhaps, that there is a good deal in their inmost hearts that the knowledge of God would rebuke. The more you know of God, the more you see your own way searched. The knowledge of God is very testing. The whole ways of God all tend to this, that God may be known in the heart of man. God has laid Himself out that He may be known in the heart of man. God's end is never gained until He has got man's heart.

J.T. And then the works of the devil are undone.

F.E.R. Yes, that is the mighty victory of God, that He has got man's heart for Himself. What are men or the world worth, or what is man compared with the knowledge of God? The one thing that a christian knows is that everything here will pass away; and what will remain then?

W.M. Love.

F.E.R. That is the knowledge of God. "We love him because he first loved us".

C.W. Very few have reached that point.

F.E.R. The sooner they do it the better; that is the only way they can cater for their own happiness.

J.T. That was expressed the other day. You said people do not cater for their own happiness.

F.E.R. I do not believe they do. I have watched people; they go after what they think will bring happiness, but not true happiness. They do a great many things which in result will bring them into bondage, and bondage is never happiness. They pursue things by which they get entangled and from which God will perhaps have to come in to extricate them.

J.S.A. Grace and peace are multiplied in the knowledge of God and Jesus our Lord.

F.E.R. Paul prays that God "may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him; the eyes of your understanding being enlightened, that ye may know what is the hope of his calling".

R.S.S. How is happiness to be obtained?

J.C. Mr. Stoney used to say that the way to keep happy is to keep small.

C.W. The true condition of happiness is that God should be supreme in our hearts.

J.A. Does not the acknowledging of the moral sway of God involve a good deal?

F.E.R. It is that which brings you salvation. It is the grace of God that bringeth salvation.

A.C. What are the steps in the soul's history?

F.E.R. The first great thing is the recognition of the reality of the Lord Jesus. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved". Then I think there needs to be apprehension of what is established in connection with Him, that which prevails through Him. You get three great things in the beginning of

Romans 5; the first is peace, the second grace, and the third hope. These three great principles are connected with the Lord Jesus Christ, who is supreme at the right hand of God. He is Lord of all. Peace in regard to the past, grace as to the present, and hope as to the future. And that takes up everything pretty much as to the christian in the world. Grace is supreme over everything, and makes you superior to evil, so that you overcome it and hold fast your profession. You have boldness to come to the throne of grace to obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need; and as to the future, you have the glory of God before you. "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing".

J.S.A. Would you say what you mean by salvation, it has been connected with the future a good deal?

F.E.R. I think salvation is in the title to be free from everything that is adverse, and refers especially to the present scene. It is perfectly intelligible by the type of the Israelites. Salvation to them meant deliverance from the Egyptians. They never had anything to fear from God, but a great deal to fear from the Egyptians, and salvation to them was in destruction of the Egyptians. God was not their enemy; they had everything to hope from Him. People often fear man and death and the devil. They are not in salvation. If you expect anything from man, you are afraid of man. If you can say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man can do unto me, you do not fear any one but God.

G.R. In the meantime that is only moral. When the kingdom is established salvation will apply to our bodies also.

W.M. Before eternal life can be touched we must certainly be under the sway of grace.

F.E.R. Yes, because until you are there you do not come under the teaching of God.

J.T. And the teaching of God has reference to His purpose.

F.E.R. Then it is that Christ becomes the teacher in order to lead you into the purpose of God, and that could not possibly be until you are brought under the moral sway of God.

J.P. That is the order in the opening of Romans 5 -- peace, grace, and hope, and then the love of God shed abroad in our hearts -- that is divine teaching.

F.E.R. Divine teaching is an insight into the nature and counsels of God; it begins with making known to us the terms on which God can be with us.

R.S.S. You spoke a little while ago about blessing and dwelling and reigning, and that we have it in inverse order. How about the dwelling?

F.E.R. Dwelling is consequent on the reigning; the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit given to us. You could not have the Spirit dwelling until the kingdom is established; the Lord Jesus Christ must be set at the right hand of God before the Holy Spirit could be given. I have no doubt that the Holy Spirit came in connection with the kingdom, to make good in power the kingdom here. The kingdom was made good at the right hand of God when Christ went there, but the Holy Spirit came down to make the kingdom good here. The coming of the Holy Spirit brought God into this scene, and the house is the consequence of His having come.

G.R. Have we not these two thoughts in the Acts? Jesus is established Lord and Christ, and then, "he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear".

F.E.R. Yes.

R.S.S. What blessing is connected with the kingdom?

F.E.R. Blessing is consequent on God dwelling; it hangs on that, as you see in Psalm 133; there the Lord commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

David talks about building a house, and God speaks about David's throne. Then David's throne is really the throne of God. You could not understand this well from the Old Testament, but in the New you find that David's throne is God's throne. The kingdom is Jehovah's. It is the Son of God who sits on David's throne. Then it is that blessing is commanded in Zion. In Revelation 21, the former things are gone, all is blessing because God is there. That is always the way. Where God is there is perfect happiness; you will not find it elsewhere.

G.R. The point today is to bring God into our own little circle.

F.E.R. The house of God has come in, and in the original order the house of God was a place of supreme happiness, and we have found this in a certain sense, being in the gain of where the presence of God is. This was seen plainly in the early chapters of Acts.

G.R. David seemed to value the house of God more than this scene.

W.M. I think you said somewhere, that when a man has to do with God he must own God's righteousness.

F.E.R. I think you want that for a moral basis; all is established on righteousness, and we have to learn that. This comes out in the early chapters of Romans. In chapter 3 not only is sin gone from before God, but the man has gone. Chapter 4 brings in the thought of another man and another world, and the apprehension of that would help people, because they would learn at the outset that God would have nothing to say to man in the flesh. We need to apprehend that in order to see what the righteousness of God means. All this is preparatory to the reign of grace. The power of resurrection puts you into the line of the children of promise, who all looked for another world.

W.M. The law pressed righteousness on the first man.

F.E.R. It witnessed and claimed the rights of God, but the righteousness of God came in, when the law had had its place in the way of testimony, to carry out the original sentence of death, but sacrificially in the death of Christ. "If one died for all, then were all dead". The offender is gone, not only the offences.

Ques. The kingdom can only be established in righteousness?

F.E.R. Grace reigns through righteousness; grace has not come in to condone sin, but to remove it.

J.S.A. Righteousness is characteristic of the reign of grace. The kingdom is not simply established on it, but must be characterised by it.

F.E.R. The effect of grace reigning is that you are saved from your own will. No man who is in the good of grace gives way to his own will. "The grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts", etc. It is important, as to Matthew 18, to see that the subject of the chapter is not the church, but the kingdom.

W.M. The house is not spoken about until the kingdom is established.

F.E.R. The church is mentioned in this chapter, but only incidentally. You get more about the church in chapter 16, the Lord is giving in chapter 18 the principles and economy of the kingdom.

J.S.A. That leads to a right application of verse 20, "where two or three are gathered together in my name".

F.E.R. The verse brings in the Lord's presence to the smallest possible number. It was not written for a day of ruin, but for the best day of the church.

A.C. You would not care to rob people of this verse which has been a comfort to so many?

F.E.R. There never were two or three people in

the world that really wanted the presence of Christ that did not get it. If people claim it, I am not sure they always get it. If they want it they get it. There is often a danger of setting up to be something collectively, which is not the idea of the passage.

J.T. As to the individual conduct in Matthew 18, the person who seeks the restoration of his brother would be in the sense of what the kingdom is.

F.E.R. The Lord makes provision to meet difficulties that come in. After 1800 years you have not found anything wiser than the principles you get in this chapter. If people acted in this way it would save them from many painful things.

J.S.A. The thought has been taken up so often ecclesiastically. If it is connected with the kingdom it must be moral.

F.E.R. Ecclesiasticism, standing, ground, and such ideas have almost ruined us.

G.B. Would you say a few words as to verse 18?

F.E.R. That I think is connected with the assembly. That is, the assembly is in Christ's mind as to things, and therefore has a very important place. Every individual effort having been put forth, the matter comes to the assembly, and they bind and loose.

W.M. Because they are in Christ's mind.

G.B. This is not authority merely, given to the apostles.

F.E.R. No, it belongs to the assembly.

THE NEW COVENANT AND RECONCILIATION

Reading, Revised by F.E.R.

Colossians 1:9, 29

F.E.R. The thought before me is the death of Christ, and what is involved in it; this brings you to two great principles, namely, the new covenant and reconciliation. They are the two great lessons to be learnt in His death.

R.S.S. Why do you connect the death of Christ with the kingdom -- with what we had this morning?

F.E.R. What I mean is this, that when you have entered the kingdom, then it is that you are taught. If you take God's ways in the past, the kingdom was established before the covenant. The children of Israel were brought to God in the wilderness. In that sense they were set in the kingdom before the covenant came to pass. Jehovah reigned, but there was as yet no covenant.

J.S.A. You mean unless a soul has come under the moral sway of grace it is not in a condition to learn what God's thoughts are.

F.E.R. Just so; it has now to learn what the mind and disposition of God is. It has come into the place where it can be taught, and then divine teaching begins. Israel had grace and salvation figuratively when they had passed through the Red Sea. They were saved from their enemies and from the hand of those who hated them; and they come to mount Sinai, and there it is the covenant is established.

J.S.A. The idea we had this morning, viz., that you must enter as a child and then you can be taught. A child must be taught.

R.S.S. I suppose the law was God communicating His mind.

F.E.R. He laid down the terms on which He saw fit to be with Israel. That is what the law meant.

J.S.A. Then that is the idea of a covenant.

F.E.R. Yes. Israel had to accept the covenant and their blessing depended on their abiding in the covenant. You get the same principle in regard to the future; that is, the kingdom is established and the power of evil is put down by the Lord Jesus, and then it is that the terms of the new covenant are seen written in the heart of Israel.

W.M. Is the reception of the Spirit the point at which teaching begins, the love of God shed abroad in the heart?

F.E.R. Yes.

C.W. By teaching, you mean being brought to know the terms on which God is pleased to be with us?

F.E.R. That is one side of the teaching. It is most important for people to know it.

J.T. We know a good deal about turning to Christ's death as relief, but not as a lesson.

F.E.R. Every important lesson is learnt there. You can gather a good deal from the analogy of Israel, for God's principles do not vary in themselves, though they may in their application.

W.M. What do you mean in regard to Israel?

F.E.R. If you take the psalms, the first psalm is the description of the godly man. How is the godly man to be got? "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly", etc. The psalm is the description of a class. When you come to Psalm 2 you have the King in Zion -- "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion". In purpose God has set His King upon His holy hill; and the two psalms give you the key to the whole of the psalms. What the psalms call for is the godly man, and the King in Zion. When you come to the close of the psalms, that is, to Psalm 118 and Psalm 119, the former gives you the King in Zion, and the latter the godly man, the

law being written in his heart. Psalm 118 is the establishment of the kingdom. The King is welcomed in Zion, and Psalm 119 is the effect of the writing of the law. The new covenant is established, the law written in the heart, and you have the godly man. "His delight is in the law of the Lord". That is the burden all through Psalm 119 -- "In his law doth he meditate day and night". It may be interesting to some here to mention that Psalm 119 properly closes the psalms. All which follow it are supplementary. The last two psalms furnish you with the answer to the first two. I only mention this because I think it shows that not only in regard to the past, but also in regard to the future, you have the kingdom established before you get the covenant. In the present time God has established the kingdom in the Lord Jesus Christ at His right hand, but the ministry of the covenant comes in after that. It is those who come into the kingdom that get the gain of the covenant.

J.S.A. Would you indicate the leading thoughts of the covenant?

F.E.R. I think divine teaching is the first great principle, with righteousness and forgiveness. You learn the mind and disposition of God toward you.

J.T. We have been largely content with the forgiveness, and ignored the teaching.

F.E.R. And yet we are reminded of it every Sunday morning in breaking bread; in regard to the cup, the Lord Himself said, "This cup is the new testament in my blood which is shed for you".

J.T. What is the meaning of that -- I do not understand it fully?

F.E.R. I think the blood of Christ in that sense sets forth the new covenant.

W.M. It is there you learn the love of God.

F.E.R. It is there you learn the disposition of God towards His people. That lesson is presented to you afresh every time you come to the Lord's supper.

R.S.S. It is what death has secured for us.

F.E.R. I would say it is more what is represented in His death. It is the light of God coming out in the death of Christ. It is what is presented to you on the part of God, as to the disposition of God, in the death of Christ.

R.S.S. Your illustration the other day was helpful: a man might die and in his will leave you a fortune; not only do you get the fortune, but you learn the disposition of the testator toward you.

J.P. Nothing could be of greater importance than that we should come under divine teaching -- the learning the disposition of God toward us.

J.T. I think, if I understand rightly, you do not take up the covenant as connected with the purpose of God; it is more God's disposition toward us?

F.E.R. I think the covenant is something about God; God will have you to learn His mind and disposition. God intended Israel to learn this lesson, only they were in the flesh, and He dealt with them accordingly. You get two things in this chapter, viz., the new covenant and reconciliation. "In him all the fulness was pleased to dwell" -- that is one statement. "And by him to reconcile all things to itself" -- that is the other statement. On the one hand, all the fulness dwelt in Christ; on the other, having made peace by the blood of the cross there is reconciliation. The first is us-ward and the other God-ward. In the cross there was the removal of the old man to the glory of God; but where that man was removed, the love of God was expressed. The latter gives you the covenant, and the former reconciliation.

W.M. I think you said that none of us knows anything about God except what we have learnt in the death of Christ.

F.E.R. That is my conviction. People may have a sort of idea of God through providences, but after all they are a veil. But we enter within the veil. It is

most important to understand that the One who died upon the cross was the Son of God; so that there we have a perfect expression of the love of God. The veil of the temple was rent in twain because God was expressed, and God having come out in that way, the Jewish system could exist no longer, for the simple reason that God was now perfectly expressed.

W.M. He came out of the thick darkness.

F.E.R. Yes. Now we walk in the light as God is in the light. The whole thing is set before us in a way in the Lord's supper. The first thing is, "This is my body which is given for you". All that is at an end. I suppose the Lord intended to convey to His disciples that that condition is gone. They were not going to be for God in flesh if He died in flesh. Christ has not died to revive anything that is under death. He died to end it, that in Him all might be new.

J.S.A. The difficulty with many of us as to reconciliation is that we have looked at it as reconciling us to God, instead of seeing it as the abolition of us, that all might be in a new Man.

F.E.R. That is the idea. Everything comes under the eye of God in another Man, and hence new creation comes in in connection with reconciliation. "Old things are passed away, behold all things are become new and all things are of God who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation". You see this in a remarkable way when Christ was here upon earth. For the moment everything was changed by His presence upon earth. I do not think God had His eye then on the perversity of the Jew, but upon Christ, who was perfectly according to His pleasure. There was good pleasure in man.

J.S.A. And now that He has displayed the righteousness of God, God's good pleasure is set out in Him in resurrection, and the reconciliation is set out in Him there.

W.M. So that His presence here meant that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them.

F.E.R. Yes, God had come close to man, not imputing trespasses. It was the new starting point for God. Only the word of reconciliation had to be brought in. There was in Christ all that was agreeable for a moment, but peace had to be made by the blood of His cross. He was the One in whom all was reconciled, but the man that was offensive to God was to be removed in order that all might be effected for God's glory.

C.W. The great idea that has been held in regard to the death of the Lord Jesus was that it was something that we could present to God.

F.E.R. When you come to the last chapter of 1 John, the blood and water witness with the Spirit. It is not so much the efficacy of the blood and the water in that chapter, as that they are witnesses, and if they are witnesses, they are witnesses of something. What are they witnesses of?

J.T. They witness that God has given to us eternal life.

F.E.R. They witness to the source from whence they came. They witness to what the Lord testifies of in John 3, that is, the love of God.

J.T. There is the perfect expression of the love of God in the death of Christ; now we get the Holy Spirit and He teaches the lesson.

F.E.R. He teaches what is behind the kingdom. The first thing God presents to us in the gospel is His grace, but He presents Himself in grace that you may know what is behind it all, and that is God's love to the world.

J.T. What a man needs is God's grace presented to begin with.

F.E.R. That is the gospel, the glad tidings of the kingdom and the grace of God, but then there lies

behind that, the love of God -- "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". God's disposition towards those that believe is love, having now perfect satisfaction in such as have gone out at the door that He has opened. In love to the world He has opened the door out of it; the door has been opened by the death of Christ. The love of God finds its satisfaction in those who go out at that door; there is no satisfaction in those who are perverse enough to remain in.

W.M. Those who go out at the door enter into His eternal purpose.

J.T. In that way eternal life is really God's objective point.

F.E.R. You have a positive statement of it. Grace reigns through righteousness unto eternal life. So in John. You get nothing about the Red Sea or the wilderness in John. He goes at once right into the truth, and that is God's purpose of eternal life.

J.S.A. You look at the brazen serpent as introductory to the gift of the Spirit and life.

C.W. Eternal life is the condition in which it will suit the heart of God to have man.

F.E.R. The wages of sin is death and the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus. Christ takes the place of universal headship to carry out the mind and purpose of God, and that is to "give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him". Souls are led by the teaching of Christ into the heart of God, and thus they get into eternal life. The work of Christ by the Spirit is to lead you to the source from which the witnesses came.

J.S.A. I think you gave us an interesting distinction in pointing out that love works for its own satisfaction, and therefore when the love of God comes out it must work to the satisfaction of itself.

F.E.R. Grace is the attitude of God toward man

as such. God in a sense adapts Himself to the condition in which man is. You could not speak of grace as the nature of God. He is gracious, and there is the grace of God, but God is not grace. God is love. That is His nature.

W.M. Would you say grace has its full display in the kingdom, and that love is eternal?

F.E.R. I think His love comes out also in regard to Israel; if they are brought into the new covenant, in a certain sense they learn the love of God. Not in the same way we learn it, but I think they do learn the love of God, for they love God.

Ques. Do you not get in the Old Testament the sinner presenting a sacrifice for forgiveness, as in Leviticus 5?

F.E.R. It is in the first instance the way of approach. If a man is to approach God he must approach God by a sacrifice.

Ques. The sinner must come to God with a sacrifice?

F.E.R. He must come to God by it. "Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain", otherwise he would go to God on his own merits. In the book of Leviticus, however, it is not the case of a sinner; it is rather the idea of restoration; it applies to people who are in relation with God. You have to go back to the blood in Egypt if you want the case of a sinner.

Ques. Then a sinner takes the lamb in Egypt.

F.E.R. Yes, but in the Old Testament all the types fail you, for you have no real type of the gospel. As a matter of fact, in the gospel the Lamb is already provided; a man has not now to provide a lamb. God has provided the sacrifice. You are justified in believing God's righteousness in Romans 3.

J.T. Do you make a distinction between the expression "love of God" and the satisfaction of the love of God?

F.E.R. I think God must have an answer to His love to the world. Where does he get the answer?

J.T. Ephesians 1 would give the answer.

F.E.R. In John you have the "whosoever". God maintains that all through John; it is neither Jew nor gentile, but "whosoever". The witness of God's love is presented to man, and "whosoever" takes that way, enters into the door that God has opened. The question is sometimes raised whether God still loves the world; but that is not the idea of the passage. God loved the world, and He proved that love by opening a door out of it. And this love must find satisfaction in those who go out of that door. Of course all those who really go out of that door have been called in divine purpose. God's love will find satisfaction because His love is allied with power, and the love uses the power. The power of God is the servant of His love.

W.M. For the gratification of His nature.

F.E.R. Precisely so. Therefore no one can tell what the love of God will do for you. "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him". They are revealed now, but no one can tell the extent of it.

R.S.S. You say love works for its own satisfaction. Is there not a selfish side in that?

F.E.R. It may be so with us, but of course the difference between God and us is this, that God is perfect, and that God must work for His own glory. Everything must be for God. It is the only security for eternal blessing that everything should be for God.

J.P. And in a Being of absolute perfection there is no thought of imperfection.

F.E.R. So, too, God is entitled to it. It is impossible for God ever to regard the creature as an object. Our ideas of God have been too much formed according to our own thoughts. If God be God and the creature a creature, the creature can never be an object to God, however He may bless him.

J.S.A. He can use him as a means for displaying His grace and glory, etc.

F.E.R. You will find that your happiness and blessing is contributory to the glory of God, and that God Himself becomes the great and ultimate end of all.

J.P. That is the force of the expression, "that God may be all in all".

J.S.A. And is the very occasion of love, "he will rest in his love".

F.E.R. I think in the eternal state the love of God will pervade everything, but then in relation to everything God will have His own proper place. Every eye will be directed to God, and every being in the universe of bliss will be conscious that he is there for the satisfaction of God.

J.T. Someone wants to know why man could not be an object of God.

F.E.R. It is impossible for the creature to be an object to God.

J.A. It has been said that love must have objects to gratify itself.

F.E.R. I think love will work, but love will work for its own satisfaction. It is good for those who are the subjects of God's love. A parent has the most profound pleasure in the happiness of his child, yet at the same time really it is for the satisfaction of the parent. My love cannot be satisfied as a parent unless I do the best I can for the subject of my love, but I am not perfect. Supposing I were infinitely good and perfect, and had power to work for the children of my love, it would be all right. It would be the best possible guarantee for their happiness. I would have my proper place as parent, and they would have their proper place as children. So God is infinite in power and love, and all those who are the subjects of His love come into the most profound happiness and blessing, and God gets His own proper place. The most terrible thing that ever came into the world was sin,

because it made man consider himself as an object. The apostle brings the thought of God's glory into the doxology, "For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things".

B. When the Lord was here there was an object for the love of God.

F.E.R. I would hardly say so, because He was Himself God. In Him dwelt all the fulness of the Godhead.

J.T. Would you say the voice from heaven was the Father's voice?

F.E.R. Yes, He was speaking to the Son. We really learn the Trinity in that way. The Spirit descended on Christ and there was the Father's voice, "This is my beloved Son".

J.P. So that the covenant and divine teaching has a sort of intermediate place?

F.E.R. I think it is to instruct you; it is divine teaching by the Spirit. Christ is the Mediator of the covenant, which is a very important point, and the Spirit is the means, and Christ by the Spirit leads the hearts of His people into what the disposition of God is toward them, and that disposition has been expressed in His death. Volumes would not express that love, like the death of Christ.

J.P. "The Lord direct your hearts into the love of God".

F.E.R. That is a beautiful expression.

J.T. Would you say the death of Christ in that way was objective, while the teaching was subjective?

F.E.R. I think so.

J.S.A. As you have said sometimes, it is in His death that we hear the "voice of the Son of God".

J.A. "Reconciled to God by the death of his Son".

G.R. Do you refer to John 5?

F.E.R. Yes, that is the voice of the Son of God, the expression of His love. It is not a voice in the sense of a sound; it is moral; divine teaching.

This never came out fully even in His lifetime; it came out in the cross. You first learn the death of Christ in its value as sacrifice. Then it is seen as the expression of love.

J.S.A. You get a beautiful expression in Psalm 85, "I will hear what God the Lord will speak". if He has spoken it is life and peace that you hear.

W.M. And you live in the light of His love.

F.E.R. Reconciliation comes in here. One lesson is that you are removed. Not one bit of flesh is sanctified; you are sanctified, but not one bit of flesh is sanctified. You are sanctified because, morally, you can be apart from the flesh before God. While you have many duties to fulfil in flesh, yet for God in the sanctuary you can be in the power of the Spirit, morally apart from the flesh. You are risen with Christ and qualified in that sense for priestly service, and you are also quickened with Him.

W.M. Does reconciliation link on with the assembly?

F.E.R. Yes, it leads on here to the truth of the body. In Him all the fulness was pleased to dwell. That is the perfect expression of God on the one hand, and on the other reconciliation for us has been effected.

J.T. You would take "risen with Christ" as God's pleasure in regard to us, but we need quickening in order to enjoy it.

F.E.R. You can only be in association with Christ as being quickened with Him.

J.S.A. The word 'quickened' has been used as to the beginning of the work of God in the soul.

F.E.R. It takes in the totality of it. You are risen and quickened with Christ. That takes you out of everything here. The two expressions always go together. 'Risen' is that you are outside of man; you are on the platform of purpose. It is to bring you into priestly service. You cannot be a priest

after the flesh. It is very extraordinary how every arrangement of christendom is a denial of the truth.

J.S.A. What are you referring to?

F.E.R. In regard to priests, there are plenty in this country, and yet even Christ Himself was not a priest after the flesh. "If he were on earth he should not be a priest". Christ Himself only took up priesthood on the platform of resurrection. As long as death lay before Him, He could not be a priest. He is a priest in the power of an endless life. It is the fulfilling of the type of Aaron's rod.

Ques. Was it not in the character of a priest that he offered the sacrifice in Hebrews 10?

F.E.R. He was victim; He offered Himself as victim. The dominant thought is of victim. He offered Himself; it is true, but the thought is the value of the blood of the victim. In all these passages you have to see what the prominent thought is. A priest might be an offering priest; the high priest was not usually an offering priest. On the day of atonement he offered, but in general the high priest did not offer. The sons of Aaron generally offered the sacrifices. I have no doubt on the cross Christ took the place of offering priest, but the prominent idea is of victim.

C.W. Then the result of the teaching of the new covenant is that you are made to live in the presence of the love of God.

F.E.R. I believe so; the great thing is that the love of God will not rest until God has you in His own habitation. "For his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ (by grace ye are saved) and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus".

C.W. Would you say what is the effect of reconciliation?

F.E.R. The good of reconciliation to you is in the recognition that the man after the flesh is gone;

that is, distance is gone because the flesh is gone. There was a complete setting aside in the death of Christ of the man who offended against God. Our old man is crucified with Christ. So you have the one man clean gone, but you have the formative power of another Man in the death of Christ, that is in the expression of the love of God. God has got man for Himself according to His mind.

J.P. That is where you get the putting on the new man.

F.E.R. Exactly. We can understand now that idea; you have put on the new man, having put off the old man, having been renewed in the spirit of your mind, and the new man is after God; that is, he is after God's nature in righteousness and holiness of truth.

C.W. And the result is that we grow by the knowledge of God.

F.E.R. And the object is to prepare you for ministry and worship with a view to the service of the sanctuary. That brings in the truth of priesthood. What is the use of a priesthood which does not know God. The thought of a priest is access, and how could you have access to a person that you do not know? You must know the love of God. Another thing is, you must be akin.

J.S.A. And the priest for us is the Son of God, and we must be sons to be priests.

F.E.R. Yes, you appear before Him in the blessed consciousness of God's love.

ETERNAL LIFE

Reading, Revised by F.E.R.

1 John 5:1 - 21

J.T. When you said last night that the platform of the New Testament was eternity, did you have in view the thought of eternal life?

F.E.R. No, not exactly. If you take John's gospel you get Christ as the Word; you are carried back to the beginning, beyond creation; you are taken in the New Testament into the eternal thoughts of God, and carried forward to the new heavens and the new earth. The New Testament closes with that.

J.T. The thought of eternal life does take you to eternity, does it not?

F.E.R. I think the expression 'eternal life' does not in itself; though that with which it is connected in the thought and revelation of the New Testament does. The idea of eternal life in the New Testament is undoubtedly taken up from the Old. See John 5:39.

J.S.A. There is one remark you made in conversation at Quebec that might help, and that is that these words, "This is the true God and eternal life", are spoken in reference to the place the Lord has now taken rather than in reference to what He was here. That throws light on the whole chapter.

F.E.R. It says in the previous clause, "we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ". He "is the true God and eternal life". It refers to what is now.

J.A. He is that to me.

F.E.R. Not exactly. He is the setting forth, the revelation of it; not only have you certain things told you about it, but you have the thing itself set forth in the Person; He is the true God and eternal life. The

true God and eternal life both find their perfect expression in Christ, thus He is said to be both.

W.M. Is that a kind of climax to the subject?

F.E.R. Quite so.

C.W. Where is that set forth?

F.E.R. It is set forth in Christ as He is.

R.S.S. How do the new covenant and reconciliation connect themselves with eternal life?

F.E.R. I think the new covenant and reconciliation are the teaching which are needful to enter upon eternal life. You can only enter upon eternal life in the measure in which you are formed in the divine nature, and that is the effect of the new covenant; and on the other hand, as you are formed in the divine nature so it is that you accept the fact that the old man has been removed. The truth works in that way. If you do not overcome the world you know nothing about eternal life, and it is as you are formed in the divine nature that you overcome the world.

J.T. Would you say that eternal life is objective; that is, it is set forth in Christ where He is, but that the new covenant has more reference to us?

F.E.R. Quite so. The new covenant sets forth that by which God proposes to affect you, viz., by divine teaching. We have not the law written in the heart, but the Spirit is given to us, and the object is that we may be affected by the love of God. You get the same thing here in the witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood. The object is to lead you to where the witnesses come from; they witness for a purpose, and the purpose is to lead us into the love of which they witness. Eternal life is of no practical use to us apart from divine teaching. All depends on how far you are prepared to enter on it.

R.S.S. Do water and blood witness of death?

F.E.R. Death is the occasion of them, but I do not think that is their witness here.

J.S.A. Is not the point, "came by water and blood"? The thought is that the witnesses come from heaven.

F.E.R. Yes, they all bear witness, and they agree in one. The water and the blood did not come from heaven exactly, but they came from God, and in connection with Christ's coming in to reveal God.

B. Do not the Spirit and the water and the blood connect themselves with the counsels of God?

F.E.R. They have become the expression of God's mind. They bring you back to where the truth starts from in John 3, "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son". When you are carried back to the heart of God, there you find eternal life; "God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son".

W.M. So they are witnesses of divine love?

F.E.R. Yes, to carry you back to where the love came from. It came out in John 3 by the Lord's testimony.

W.M. But it carries you back to death as the expression of love?

F.E.R. Death is seen as witness in that sense.

Ques. Is the law written in the heart for God's earthly people, but not for the present time?

F.E.R. Yes.

R.S.S. I do not yet see that the blood and water is not specially connected with death.

F.E.R. That refers to their efficacy. But the love of God is expressed in them. When Christ died, a soldier pierced His side, and therefrom came blood and water. You can speak of them as to their efficacy, but they witness to the love of God in His Son, that was superior to all the wickedness of man. They are spoken of here as witnesses in conjunction with the Spirit. All testify to the same thing.

J.S.A. I think you get the truth also in John 3, God gave His only begotten Son. In this chapter He

came by water and blood, and then you have the Spirit added as testimony.

F.E.R. Yes, and He that believeth in the Son of God hath the witness in himself. You are carried back to the source, and in being carried back to the source you know you have eternal life.

R.H. It is the witness of what was expressed in death, the love of God.

J.P. The order of the words here is very significant, the Spirit first.

F.E.R. You get the same truth coming out in Romans 5. The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Spirit, then the statement that God commendeth His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. The order shuts out the idea of efficacy in the passage because we must first have the efficacy to have the Spirit. It is only by the Spirit that you know the witness of the water and the blood. Historically, the water and the blood came first, then the Spirit. In their application to us as witnesses the Spirit comes first, then the water and the blood. You get both orders in the chapter. First historically, and then in application.

R.S.S. Is there a thought of the end of the first man in connection with it?

F.E.R. I think so, incidentally, because the water and the blood involves the end of the first man. Where man was removed God was expressed. Only half a dozen words, but if we knew the meaning of those half dozen words we should be extremely well instructed christians.

W.M. One might say it was God coming in testimony into death to express Himself.

F.E.R. God comes down to us where we were. Whatever comes out in us is the simple answer to the revelation of God. There is not a bit in us that is any good at all except what is in answer to the expression

of God. The man must be removed, and in the removal of the man God was expressed.

J.S.A. The teaching of John is not blood meeting sins at all. It is not on that line.

F.E.R. You get in the first chapter, "The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin", but in that chapter the apostle is taking up the question of fellowship.

C.W. Coming by water and blood is in contrast with coming in flesh, I suppose. The way He comes to us is by water and blood.

J.S.A. That expression, 'coming by', is analogous to the one in Hebrews, "by a greater and more perfect tabernacle". It is in that connection.

F.E.R. Although Christ in a sense came after the flesh to confirm the promises made to Israel, yet the purpose in His coming was death.

R.S.S. Is it not true that the end of the life of the flesh must come, before God could open up eternal life as it is for us?

F.E.R. The two things are concurrent, the removal of man, and the revelation of God. God expresses Himself in the removal of man. Reconciliation and the new covenant were really concurrent.

J.P. The testimony is not so much as to what is removed as to what is expressed. We have come to what is absolutely positive here, to what God has given, eternal life.

F.E.R. When you come to the application of things to us you can only get them by what is divine, that is, by the Spirit. You get the testimony and witness of love in the death of Christ, but another thing comes in, how is it effected in you, and that is only by the Spirit of God. The Spirit leads you by divine teaching into the understanding of the water and blood as witnesses. After the love of God is shed abroad in your heart by the Spirit you are able to read the meaning of the death of Christ.

J.C. Would you not say that man had to be removed before God could be revealed?

F.E.R. No, because I believe God was revealed in the removal of the man. When Christ died the veil of the temple was rent; that did not mean that man was removed, but that God had come out.

R.S.S. What hinders in connection with our apprehension of eternal life? Is it not because the life of the first man is not practically gone for us?

F.E.R. Yes, you must appropriate divine food; you must eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood; you have to overcome the world.

B. What is overcoming the world?

F.E.R. I can tell you the way of it, "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God". The thing itself must be known to understand the word. If you have overcome the world you are not disposed to talk much about it.

J.T. It is not 'he that believeth Jesus as Saviour'.

F.E.R. I think it is as you grow in acquaintance with the love of God that you overcome the world, for you realise that everything in the world is incompatible with the love of God. All is lust and vanity down here. Eternal life is to live in the love of God.

W.M. That is why you lay so much stress upon the death of Christ, because it is really love?

F.E.R. Yes.

W.M. Referring to a previous remark, the trouble is that we are not experimentally gone, and that is why we do not enjoy the love of God.

F.E.R. Yes, you must give place to the Spirit so that you may get the witness of the Spirit, that is of the love of God.

J.P. That brings in the passage in Galatians, "he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting".

F.E.R. I think you will find in the ways and course of a good many christians that there is a very fair bit of sowing to the flesh for self-gratification, and they reap corruption.

C.W. That is what you meant when you spoke of seeking happiness?

F.E.R. People do not seek happiness, but self-gratification. They sow to the flesh, and of the flesh they reap corruption.

W.M. But it is only in the power of love that you grow in holiness?

J.T. In the apprehension of our souls we have to pass from the thought of the Saviour to the thought of the Son of God in order to apprehend eternal life. As Son of God, Christ is connected with the purpose of God.

J.A. What is the thought of reaping life everlasting? Is it that one gets the good of it?

F.E.R. I think it is that he gets it now. Mr. Darby has said that Christ was alone here in the world in the out-of-the-world heavenly condition of relationship and being in which eternal life consists, and hence He was eternal life. I may have heard of a man's house and possibly of all who are in it, and may know that it is an orderly house; but not having been in it, I have not consciousness of the house; but if I were to go and stay with that man and see all that goes on, I should get the consciousness of it. Many people make the mistake of putting off that for eternity. It used to be commonly said, I know that I have got eternal life. Why? Because the scripture says, "He that believeth hath everlasting life". I say you have thus the faith of eternal life, but that does not prove that you have the thing itself. Many a person has had a promise, but not the thing promised, that was the case largely with the Old Testament saints. They embraced the promises, but they had not the things promised. Christianity is not only that you have the

faith of the things proposed, but that you have the consciousness of the things that you believe.

J.T. I think you are coming to the point of real difficulty now, and in that connection the thought of teaching has been largely ignored.

B. I think Mr. Darby speaks of that on Psalm 16, calling it the inner life.

F.E.R. Many christians have the light of eternal life, but they have not gone the road to touch it, and I do not much think they intend to go that road. They have the light of the gospel, and a sense of God's grace, but they do not intend to go where that light came from.

J.P. Not till they die.

F.E.R. Yes, and then they hope to go there.

J.P. There is nothing like the language of the Spirit of God in Scripture. I was thinking of that in connection with the words, "he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting", and "that ye may know ye have eternal life". It is the thing itself.

Ques. What is the meaning of that "eternal life which was with the Father"? Is it not connected with the Person?

F.E.R. There is no such thing as life apart from a person. In the epistle the apostle is speaking from their standpoint; that is, of what they had seen, and not from God's standpoint. In Christ, life was with the Father. The same thing is true in the gospel -- in the beginning was the Word, but the Word was One with whom they were familiar, and He is identified as God.

J.T. The Word has to do with revelation.

F.E.R. I have thought the meaning is that God becomes His own testimony, no longer speaking by law and prophets.

G.R. Although He who bears that title is eternal?

F.E.R. Quite so.

G.R. It would be helpful to us all to pursue a little the thought of teaching.

Ques. Would you not say that the apostle unfolds in the first chapter what eternal life is?

F.E.R. He unfolds christian fellowship. I think the apostle begins from the lowest platform and leads up to the highest. The last chapter leads us to the highest. The lowest platform is christian fellowship on earth. The first four verses are introductory, showing the apostolic place. Then after that the saints are taken up on the ground of christian fellowship, and hence the blood is introduced. We have fellowship with one another; and then in the third chapter they are seen in the place of children. In the fourth chapter we get the knowledge of God in relation to christians here, and in the fifth chapter you are brought to the heart of God, to the highest platform.

W.M. There is a marvellous order.

F.E.R. In the first chapter, verses 1 - 4 are evidently, as I said, introductory, giving the ground on which the apostle could write. The subject of the epistle properly begins at verse 5. As regards the expression, "that eternal life which was with the Father", it was the actual ever-existing condition of life. It does not refer to time at all. It is the place and sphere of life. It is that eternal life which had that character, was with the Father, and was manifested to those around Christ.

G.R. So that if you raise the question of time you are introducing into the passage what is not in it.

F.E.R. It simplifies the passage very much to see that the apostle is speaking of what came within their cognizance. They had been with Christ from the beginning, and therefore they could bear witness; and then the Spirit bears witness of what they could not bear witness, and that is what you come to in the last chapter. The apostle has done his utmost in the first four chapters, and in the fifth chapter he assigns

them to the witness of the Spirit. The Spirit alone can take you to the heart of God. You must have One who has come from the place to take you to that place.

G.R. So really the Spirit, the water, and the blood are distinct from apostolic testimony?

F.E.R. Yes, and it is only in the fifth chapter that you reach eternal life; the apostle could not conduct you to eternal life. He could tell you what had been down here. You will never touch divine love except by divine teaching.

G.R. It is not merely teaching what is divine, but it is the teaching of a divine Person.

J.C. The enjoyment of divine Persons where divine Persons are at home.

F.E.R. And another thing is needful, which is of all importance, and that is you overcome the world. Eternal life is there, and it is God's mind for you to be in it, but there is a gulf between you and it, and you have to pass over that gulf. God has passed over that gulf to come to you, and you have to pass over the gulf which is now bridged in order to get what God has for you. What He has effected in the death of Christ has to be made good in you.

W.M. So that if any man love the world the love of-the Father is not in him.

J.P. It has been stated that eternal life was communicated to us this side of the bridge.

F.E.R. There is no truth in it; what is communicated to you on this side of the bridge is the gift of the Holy Spirit, and He is the well of water in us springing up to eternal life. Unless you have the Holy Spirit you will never get divine teaching, but it is by divine teaching that you get over the bridge.

G.R. Did not Peter get over the bridge when he left the ship?

F.E.R. There are many things we have to fulfil on this side of the bridge, but morally, in the power of

the Holy Spirit, you have to go to the other side of the bridge. That gives great emphasis to the second chapter. In the second chapter the apostle takes up practical difficulties to which certain classes are exposed. The fathers have known Him that is from the beginning, the young men have overcome the wicked one, but they are in danger of the world, while the danger of the babes is bad doctrine. You have to judge not only bad doctrine, but all the world system; to be disentangled from that; and that is by eating the flesh of the Son of man. In that way John 6 and Matthew 14 are synchronous.

J.T. What is the relation of quickening to eternal life?

F.E.R. If you are quickened you are brought into it, because you are quickened together with Christ.

R.S.S. It is all connected with the knowledge of the Son of God.

F.E.R. It is said, "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God". There is genuine faith, but it is not eternal life. John 9 helps on that line.

W.M. Son of God brings in the thought of relationship and being.

F.E.R. Yes; in the third chapter of the epistle you come to children of God, but not yet to eternal life. Children brings in the thought of Father -- God is Father to us as children in the world. As to everything in the world I would appeal to the Father because I am a child here upon earth, but that is not the idea of eternal life.

J.T. When you say you would appeal to the Father in regard to things here, you mean you would appeal to that Person in the Godhead?

F.E.R. Yes, according to Luke 12, your Father knoweth that you have need of these things. You are an object of the Father's affection, and that is as a child here.

W.M. Do you not need to abstract yourself from

the flesh and blood condition to get the thought of a child of God?

J.T. Is not the relationship outside of the flesh?

F.E.R. Now are we the children of God. You must not make the thought 'child of God' equivalent to the thought of 'son of God'; children of God morally in righteousness and love. The new man is created after God in righteousness and holiness of truth. There is a generation here born of God, children of God "blameless and harmless".

J.P. As sons of God there is no crooked and perverse nation?

F.E.R. No, sons of God brings in the thought of eternal counsel and of heavenly places. The close of the epistle lands you in what Paul speaks of, and that is, "God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son".

J.P. And we are in Him.

F.E.R. Yes, in His Son Jesus Christ. Paul distinguished most clearly between children and sons. With John you are children down here loved of the Father. Sons is what you are in the calling of God.

Ques. Would the term 'Father' be right to use in connection with mercies down here?

J.T. You would not connect the Father with the world as it is?

F.E.R. I would indeed. It is the Father who governs the world. I think Christ does not yet take that place; it is the Father who is above all.

R.S.S. Is it not the thought of God?

F.E.R. The thought of God is presented to us in the Father, "To us there is one God, the Father".

G.R. Take the passage in 2 Corinthians 6, "I ... will be a Father unto you" -- that does not convey the thought of divine relationship, does it? I will be a Father, that is, conditionally, down here.

F.E.R. I think the simple truth is this, that God is Father in christianity; He is not Father to the

heathen. He is the governor of the world, and we appeal to the governor of the world as Father.

R.S.S. Our thought has been that that was not full christianity.

F.E.R. Full christianity is entering into the Father's counsels. The disciples on earth were taught to look to the Father, but that was not christianity.

J.S.A. Every family is named of the Father.

W.M. It is the same Person.

F.E.R. Yes, but He has His counsels, and christianity consists in entering into the Father's counsels.

R.S.S. But as I understand it, God is Father in two ways, that is, in connection with our place as children here upon earth, and then in full christianity, which is the light of His counsel, and that brings in what the Father is to the Son.

F.E.R. Yes. In that sense you stand in association with the Son, but in the other thought you are as children down here. I think the mistake has been made of confounding the idea of children with eternal life. I have fallen into that too much myself; the thoughts are, I judge, quite distinct. Sonship is connected with eternal life; that puts you outside the death scene.

J.P. What do you come to in the fourth chapter?

F.E.R. The fourth chapter brings in the Spirit and the whole range of knowledge -- it shows the way in which God has come out in love towards us from the beginning to the end of the christian course. It begins with us as dead and in our sins, and carries us on to the end of our responsibility, the day of judgment. Then the fifth chapter brings in the witnesses and leads you, as I said, on to the highest platform. It leads you to where all came from.

THE SERVICE OF GOD

Reading, Revised by F.E.R.

Hebrews 8:1 - 13

R.H. Is this the summing up of what has gone before in the epistle?

F.E.R. Yes, it says "We have such an high priest"; but then it leads on to a further thought, and that is minister of the sanctuary or holy place.

J.S.A. The characteristic feature of christianity is that the minister and the mediator are the same, and therefore you have perfection.

W.M. What is the difference between the mediator and the minister?

F.E.R. A mediator is from God to men, and minister is from man to God.

R.S.S. What is the difference between the minister and high priest?

F.E.R. The minister has to do with the service of the holy places; the high priest prepares us for that service. The high priest has to do with the people in their infirmity; that is what you get to the end of chapter 7. He is able to save to the uttermost all that come unto God by Him. The high priest is appointed in regard of men; but He is also the minister of the sanctuary.

R.S.S. Leading into the holiest is as the minister of the sanctuary?

F.E.R. Yes, "in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee". There you get the thought of the minister of the sanctuary, but you would not know Him as minister of the holy places unless you knew Him as high priest.

R.S.S. Is there a difference between high priest and great priest?

F.E.R. Yes, I think there is. High priest has

reference to intercession and succour, "we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities". The great priest is over the house of God. In a sense Aaron had this oversight.

J.P. It is the high priest in the first part of the epistle, and then the great priest.

G.B. Why is Christ called the Apostle and High Priest of our profession in the third chapter?

F.E.R. Because the profession is established under Christ as such. The profession of Israel was established in connection with Moses and Aaron; it was ordained in the hand of Moses, and Aaron was the priest connected with it. Now to us, all is under Christ. He is both Apostle and High Priest of our profession.

W.M. Is the object of His sustainment and sympathy to lead us into the sanctuary?

F.E.R. I think the purpose of it is to attach saints to Himself. He makes Himself indispensable to us in that way. Christ takes the place of leader of the praises of the universe. He has not only taken the place of revealing God, but as Man He has become the centre of the universe of bliss -- He is the Centre and the Sun -- "In the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee", and then further, "I will praise thee in the great congregation"; and "I will sing praise to thee among the nations".

A.C. Would you say that these last two circles that you have mentioned are not given effect to at present?

F.E.R. Not yet. I do not think there is any line of truth more interesting than to see the place that Christ has taken in the universe of bliss. Adam had a kind of place, but Christ takes the place of Head and Centre of all.

J.T. Would you not say the truth of the tabernacle is here?

F.E.R. I suppose it is a contrast to the material tabernacle.

J.T. Do you get in the true tabernacle the idea of dwelling?

F.E.R. I daresay. In a certain sense, in result God dwells in all; "that God may be all in all". The thought of the true tabernacle may be very wide in final result. All things in a sense become the abode of God, and Christ ever sustains the place He has taken as man. I think His taking that place is the security for permanence in everything.

J.P. A verse in Revelation 21 is to the point, the "tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them".

F.E.R. Yes, that is in the new heaven and the new earth. I think it is plain enough that the very thought of God dwelling must bring blessing in its train. Where God is, blessing must be, because He is the blessed God.

G.B. What was the idea of the tabernacle, because the temple came afterwards?

F.E.R. I think the tabernacle was of far greater import than the temple. The tabernacle was the pattern of things in the heavens, and the temple was never said to be that. There is one remarkable feature about the tabernacle that never was true, I think, in the temple, and that is the tabernacle was anointed with oil. The temple was built up in connection with the kingdom.

J.S.A. The temple conveyed a more limited idea than the tabernacle.

F.E.R. Grace came out much more in connection with the tabernacle than with the temple; one of the most wonderful things perhaps that ever took place came out in connection with the tabernacle, and that is that God walked with the people. The tabernacle was shifting. The temple was a fixed abode in

Jerusalem. The tabernacle was an extraordinary witness to the grace of God.

J.P. So that in spite of their circumstances, they got all the benefit and blessings of the presence of God.

W.M. Why do you emphasise the thought that the mediator and minister are one now?

F.E.R. Because the imperfection of the Jewish system was that the mediator and minister were two. Moses was mediator, and Aaron minister. They might not be always in perfect accord; as a matter of fact they were not always so.

C.W. I suppose the tabernacle typified the universe of bliss?

F.E.R. I think the tabernacle was a kind of foreshadowing that the whole system will be pervaded by the grace of the Spirit, that is why it was anointed with oil. In the fact of Moses being mediator, and Aaron priest, God gave a witness of the imperfection of the system.

J.S.A. And the effect of Christ being both is that the service and worship correspond to God in the mind of the Mediator.

F.E.R. Yes, the ministry is perfectly consistent with the light of God. The Mediator brings the light, and the minister is charged with the service, and the service is according to the light.

W.M. So that the entrance into it is as great as the light.

F.E.R. The service is commensurate with the revelation.

J.C. What goes in is equal to what comes out.

F.E.R. Yes. You see the great divergence in the case of Israel, because while Moses was getting the communications, Aaron was helping to make the golden calf. There was not correspondence with the light there.

A.C. Where does the mediatorship come in, in connection with ourselves?

F.E.R. I think you get that in 2 Corinthians 3, where the new covenant is spoken of. The Lord is the Spirit of the new covenant. You learn the new covenant in the Lord. The same One who brings the light leads the praises. He says, "I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee". In the first part of the passage it is more mediatorship; in the second it is more ministry. They are in accord with each other.

J.T. I think as a rule you can take in the idea of the mediator more easily than that of the minister, and perhaps we are slow to take in the idea of what Christ is toward God.

F.E.R. I think so. It is a distinction which is undoubtedly scriptural and is of the last moment. The same One in whom the fulness of the Godhead dwells is the Head of all principality and power; and He is the Head of the church, that is, He occupies that place as man in the presence of God.

J.T. Would you say that as the apostle He stands alone, but in connection with being the minister there is a company formed, and we come in?

F.E.R. Very much after the pattern of Aaron and his house. You do not find much about the house of Moses as being identified with him, but the house of Aaron was identified with him. Moses stood alone as mediator. In the service of God there was Aaron and his sons.

J.T. Would you say that a company is described in Him; such a high priest became us?

F.E.R. Yes, on account of the greatness of our calling. You really learn the character of the calling of the company from the high priest.

J.S.A. And He was the Son, so we must be sons to be in that company.

F.E.R. Almost the whole of the statements in the early part of Hebrews is built up on two scriptures: the first is from Psalm 2"Thou art my Son; this

day have I begotten thee"; the second is from Psalm 110, "Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec", and the object is to identify the priest with the Son; Hebrews 5:5 and Hebrews 7:28.

J.S.A. In chapter 2 we have "bringing many sons unto glory", and that is where we come in.

F.E.R. I think that shows the intimate connection between sonship and priesthood.

G.R. Will you say a little as to the difference between the Lord's service as priest, in the first part of Hebrews, and in the second part commencing with chapter 8?

F.E.R. I think all the first part of the Hebrews is in connection with His service to us on earth, here in the wilderness, in the midst of difficulties; and the same thing will have its application to Israel hereafter.

G.R. The force of that word in chapter 7, "he is able also to save them to the uttermost"?

F.E.R. He is able to save us from every opposition and every enemy. Able to save us from being overcome and swamped.

G.R. It is not simply that He is able to carry us right through to heaven.

F.E.R. It may be; I think salvation has reference to what is hostile to God's people. The object of the Spirit is to establish the hearts of God's people in the ability of the High Priest to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him.

J.T. You were saying that in the sanctuary there is not the consciousness of the need of the priest.

F.E.R. In a certain sense you do not need there the service of the priest. We shall not need the service of the priest in heaven. We shall have the minister of the sanctuary. When we get to heaven we shall not need sympathy and succour; we shall not have occasion to come boldly to the throne of grace to obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. When we are in heaven, priesthood will be available for Israel

upon earth; they will need succour then, but we shall not need it.

J.S.A. If we come at all into the sanctuary now it means we are outside of the circumstances of the wilderness, that is, we are morally outside.

R.S.S. We may be detained by the circumstances of the wilderness.

F.E.R. I think people get under the power of things here very largely.

R.S.S. It is knowing Christ as high priest that would set us free.

F.E.R. It is confidence in the priest who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. It is confidence in His love. I think confidence is the effect of love rather than of faith. You get confidence in children, but it is confidence inspired by love.

J.P. Does the full assurance of faith in chapter 10 express it, "Let us draw near"?

F.E.R. No, that is faith, more.

C.W. When I come to the point that I am superior to my circumstances I am free to join Christ in the sanctuary.

R.S.S. How does He declare the Father's name?

F.E.R. He has declared it. "And will", in John 17:26, refers to resurrection. I would not speak of Him as declaring the Father's name now. If the Father's name is once declared, it is declared. He may maintain it in a certain sense, but it is declared. He has brought in a platform and the platform is there.

J.S.A. That rather touches on the point of this morning. Once God has come out in the Father, He cannot go back to any other ground.

F.E.R. I understand the declaration of the Father's name was when the Lord sent the message by Mary Magdalene, "I ascend unto my Father and your Father", and that is out.

W.M. So He works to get saints into the good of what is declared.

R.H. What is it in the beginning of Hebrews, "I will declare"?

F.E.R. That is a quotation, to identify the Sanctifier and the sanctified. You get the truth of our Aaron in the second chapter, and in chapter 10 you get the sons. The Sanctifier is in chapter 2; in chapter 10 you get the sanctified. "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all", and then afterwards, "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest".

W.M. Is the sanctification in chapter 10 our being able to take the place of sonship?

F.E.R. It is the will of God. In other words, it lies for us in the apprehension of the calling. It is only in that connection that Christ will identify Himself with us. He will not identify Himself with us as men down here in flesh, but only as according to the calling of God. If you fail to enter into the reality of eternal life, it proves that you do not understand what it is to be identified with the minister of the sanctuary. Plenty of people come to the meetings, but perhaps few people worship.

W.M. Does Ephesians 2 give the worshipping company, "you hath he quickened"?

F.E.R. Yes.

J.S.A. What is the relation between the sanctuary and entering into the assembly?

F.E.R. I understand the sanctuary to be the light in which God presents Himself to us. We enter into the good of it in assembly. The assembly is in that. There is the light in which it has pleased God to shine out, and it is our privilege to be before God in that light, so that we praise God in the sense of the light.

J.T. We have to dismiss from our minds the idea of a place.

F.E.R. Exactly. There is a place; heaven is our place, but for the moment the sanctuary must be moral.

G.H. Can one be in the sanctuary the whole seven days?

F.E.R. I do not know at all. I would answer the question by saying most certainly I am not in the sanctuary the whole seven days. I have a great many things to do in the wilderness, and the wilderness is not in the sanctuary. The priest belongs to the sanctuary; but down here, if you take into account our circumstances, we have a great deal to do as common people. You always maintain the sense in your soul that you belong to the sanctuary, though you may have to take up a good many things that do not belong to it.

G.R. Is that not presented in Aaron's sons, that they were not to rend their garments because they were connected with the sanctuary?

F.E.R. And so every christian, if he knows what it is to be sanctified, should carry himself in relation to the sanctuary, not getting under the influence of anything down here.

J.S.A. So really we are priests, Levites, and common persons; and the one should contribute to the other.

F.E.R. My path in the wilderness is not my calling; I am here for the will of God; that is not my calling. Romans 12 is not my calling.

G.R. How is it that people find the meetings so dull very often?

F.E.R. I think if people do not find the Lord in the assembly, it is because they do not want Him.

J.A. So many carry their cares to the meeting on the Lord's day morning.

F.E.R. You pass into the assembly through the Supper.

R.H. Why is it so often left to the end of the meeting?

F.E.R. It betrays a remnant of old thoughts. In the Church of England we used to take the Lord's supper once a month, and it came at the end of the

service. The Lord's supper is properly introductory to the assembly, and it is through that that we pass over to His side. It is in the entering into His death that you pass over to His side as the living One, then you come to the service of the sanctuary.

G.R. Is that what you understand by passing through the veil, that is to say, His flesh?

F.E.R. I would not apply that passage to it. I think in principle it is true; it is through His death that you pass over to His side; we call Him into presence through His death. The Supper is really Christ's voice to us. You do not recall Christ's death, but Himself as the living One who was dead. You call Him to mind as One who lives.

W.M. And His death was an incident in the pathway of love.

F.E.R. Yes, because the love is still there. It is not as though it was only one final act of love. The love has not changed; it is still there. You get the subject of the assembly in 1 Corinthians 11 - 14, and the first point is the Supper, because it is introductory to the assembly.

W.M. I understand you are not laying down a rule as to when the breaking of bread should take place.

F.E.R. I am simply giving an idea.

G.R. What is the thought pressed in 1 Corinthians 10, the cup is the communion of the blood of Christ?

F.E.R. I think the death of Christ is the bond of our fellowship, and everybody has to be true to that bond. The mistake has been made of regarding 1 Corinthians 10 as the meeting. There is not any meeting there. There are hymns which speak about 'we meet around Thy table, Lord' -- that is a mistake. 1 Corinthians 10 is not the meeting, but individual responsibility; that is, we are bound together in a certain bond of fellowship, and the responsibility of everyone is to be true to that bond. In a certain sense it is like articles of a partnership, and every

partner must be true to those articles. Depend upon it, you may easily do many things which tend to compromise fellowship; people compromise the fellowship often by curiosity; you may have liberty to do many things, but there is another consideration, viz., as to whether what you do is compromising fellowship. If I were abroad, say in a Roman Catholic town, I would not go into a Roman Catholic church. I would not compromise fellowship. That is my objection to the use of theatres for preaching. If you use the theatre people will say you do not think so very badly about theatres.

R.H. Why is the cup mentioned in chapter 10 first, and the loaf afterwards?

F.E.R. I think because the elements are taken in their sacrificial order. The blood was sprinkled first, and then the body was burned outside the camp. When you come to the moral order you get the body first, because that is the token of Christ having given Himself. Then you get the blood as the expression of what God's mind is towards you. The disciples had to accept the truth that Christ gave Himself for them that they might be apart from the flesh; and then afterwards He gave them the cup saying, "this cup is the new testament in my blood", which expressed the mind of God toward them.

G.R. How is it that we do not get sins in Luke 22 when the Lord institutes the Supper -- we have it in Matthew?

F.E.R. The allusion to sins only emphasises the giving of Himself; the new covenant. What the new covenant expresses is the love of God which has cleared everything away, so that we may know the love of God without the sins.

J.C. To turn back a moment; on the Lord's day morning when we meet together to break bread, and after the bread is broken, there is very often ministry.

Would it not be happier if the saints would go on with the worship?

F.E.R. It would be happier to my mind.

J.T. Would it not be a great thing to catch the chord that the Lord strikes?

F.E.R. That is it. The one thing in the assembly is to be in accord with Him.

B. If we were in the good of 1 Corinthians 10, we would not have much to say to the world.

F.E.R. No. There is in the world a great deal of idolatry, not in the old gross form, but in another form. A covetous man is an idolater. You may get a covetous man in the meeting. The apostle says "flee from idolatry". Idolatry was that the people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. They sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play in the absence of the mediator, like christians enjoying themselves in the absence of Christ. That is idolatry.

J.S.A. There is great importance in getting a sense of the calling of God. God called Abraham out to Himself from idolatry. What we lack is a real sense of the calling of God.

F.E.R. We want to study the great lesson book, and that is the death of Christ.

R.S.S. You were saying that everyone who seeks the Lord finds His presence. How do you seek Him?

F.E.R. I think that you have to come at the Supper through the table; you cannot come at 1 Corinthians 11 except through chapter 10. In the Church of England we had a week's preparation for the sacrament. Of course that was a formality, but you do want preparation for the assembly, and that preparation is that you are in separation in the fellowship of His death. I am not a bit in accord with what is going on down here on earth.

J.T. Chapter 10 is separation, while chapter 11 is seclusion.

F.E.R. What the Lord taught His disciples on the

night of His betrayal was, virtually, I am going away, but I will teach you how you are to call Me to presence. I think you come together in assembly to meet the Lord, but I think the Lord will be called into presence morally by the breaking of bread. It is the Supper that is the rallying point of the assembly.

R.S.S. Is it through the love expressed in His death that He is brought into presence?

F.E.R. As a father I love my children, but if I die I have no longer any love for them; they may remember that I did love them, but a dead man cannot love his children; but with Christ the case is entirely different. The love wherewith He loved His own is still there, and He is the living One. He says, "I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you". If I could give my life for you I could not love you after I died, that is not so with Christ. Hence, as was said just now, His death was an incident in the pathway of love.

G.R. Would you pray for the Lord's interests in assembly?

F.E.R. No, I think it is not in the character of the assembly. An important point in our meetings is how we hold the young. It would be good sometimes if the meetings were shorter and not a weariness to the young. A word of exhortation or of wisdom or knowledge in the assembly is all right. If you are good priests God-ward, you will be serviceable man-ward.

G.R. In 1 Corinthians 14 you have prayer.

F.E.R. Well, I do not exclude prayer. I only claim that we cannot lay ourselves out for it; it must be as the Lord leads. I think it is happy to get to a meeting for prayer, but in that you do not exactly come together in assembly. You come together to pray, and the Lord vouchsafes His presence, but that is not exactly the assembly.

GOD'S GLORY AND HIS LAW

Address by F.E.R.

Psalm 19; Romans 12:1 - 21

Psalm 19 is remarkable, for the reason that in the first part it presents to us the idea of the glory of God, and at the same time of a light in heaven. "The heavens declare the glory of God", that is the first expression, and afterwards, "In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun". It is these two thoughts I desire to dwell upon, but not in their literality.

I want to bring before you what I judge was hidden in the mind of the Spirit; it is that which is important to get at in these scriptural expressions. I do not judge the Spirit of God was taken up simply with the material heavens. The psalmist surveyed the heavens, and saw a testimony there to the glory of God; for wherever he looked upon earth there was confusion through sin; but in the heavens the work of God was above all confusion; and there was another thing, that God had set in them a tabernacle for the sun, and the sun never varied or swerved from its appointed course; at the same time there was nothing hid from the heat of it. But the material things which the psalmist observed were not the limit of what was in the mind of the Spirit; the Spirit had other thoughts not yet revealed, and we can tell now without much difficulty what the Spirit of God had in view.

The second part of the psalm declares the value of God's law, and I understand that to be the expression of His will. The expression of His will in regard to ourselves is laid out in a very blessed way in the chapter I read in the Romans. We are to prove by the renewing of our minds what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Romans is peculiarly the expression of God's will in regard to us

down here. But you will not understand the will of God unless you apprehend the glory of God.

It is blessed to apprehend that God is above all the confusion down here -- that the heavens declare His glory.

Now in the first part of the psalm I have no doubt the Spirit of God had Christ in view -- how that God has set Him in heaven, and thus the heavens declare the glory of God, and that is true at this moment. Stephen looked up steadfastly into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus. Sin and ruin and woe were down here, but Stephen saw the glory of God, and Jesus at the right hand of God. That is the light which God has been pleased to set in heaven, and the heavens declare the glory of God. Christ has been received in heaven with acclamation, and the glory of God is in the face of Jesus. God's delight is set forth in Him; it is that which gives character to the great supper in Luke 14. I understand that to be the celebration of righteousness. Righteousness was accomplished in the death of Christ; the resurrection was the testimony of it, and the celebration is in the reception of Christ in heaven. He has been taken to heaven, and the heavens declare the glory of God. There was at the cross the perfect conciliation of love and righteousness in the removal of sin. Witness was borne to it in resurrection, but the celebration is in heaven.

Now in the heavens hath God "set a tabernacle for the sun". It is important to see that there is a scene where God has everything to His pleasure, that is, in heaven. In the face of Jesus I see the conciliation of things that were necessarily opposed. What I understand in regard to the sun is that it is set for a light on the earth. It was so at the beginning. Thus in setting Christ in heaven, God has set Him there to be a light for man on earth. The setting of Christ in heaven means the introduction of the kingdom of God, and the kingdom of God means security for man from

the power of every enemy. The kingdom of God is righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Saints down here are secured from the power of all enemies. It is there that God has been pleased to set salvation. The light is Christ in heaven, in which man upon earth is to walk. It is a great thing to walk in daylight. We know what it is to be in the light of the sun. If you walk in the light you do not stumble. The point is that we walk in the light which God has been pleased to set in heaven.

It is not difficult to tell you why Christ is the light for man upon earth. It is because the grace of God is expressed in Him, the glory of God too is set forth in Him. Christ is the expression of God's mind to man. You get the proclamation in His name of repentance and forgiveness of sins. It has comforted my mind to see that grace is commensurate with glory, that is a great point, and the reason is that both grace and glory are founded on the cross; and hence it must be that grace is commensurate with glory. Christ is the blessed expression of grace, and at the same time the glory of God is set forth in His face. "Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: by whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God". Grace prepares for glory.

We tread our path down here in the light of Christ, and that means the perfect expression of the grace of God. The point of view for a christian now is heaven; he rejoices in hope of glory and you will not see much of the glory of God on earth. In newspapers you will see very little about heaven. But it is in heaven that we see in the face of Jesus the glory of God; God's righteousness reconciled with His love; and that is security for everything. There is everything now for man in Jesus, peace, grace, and the hope of glory. Grace is for the present; grace reigns; the presence

of Christ in heaven has introduced the reign of grace through righteousness, unto eternal life. One may be travelling on to death, but grace reigns, maintaining righteousness, unto eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If in the light of Christ you go through the world, you are an overcomer instead of being overcome. And you walk here in righteousness. If it were not for grace we could not touch righteousness. No unconverted man can walk in self-judgment, for the reason that he is not acquainted with the grace of God; but the knowledge of the grace of God enables one to walk in self-judgment. The allowance of sin is inconsistent with the grace of God, for the teaching of grace is that having denied ungodliness and worldly lusts, we live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world; and the soul is thus led in the direction of eternal life, which is God's purpose.

Now I would like all, both young and old, to be walking in this world in the light of Christ, and it is a light above the brightness of the sun. Saul when he was converted saw such a light, and in the heavenly Jerusalem they have no need of the light of the sun; they have no need even of the greatest natural light because they have moral light, the light of God. I would wish that we might all go through this world in that great light which God has been pleased to set in heaven. Christ is the true sun which God has set in heaven, in order that we might walk in the light of Christ down here upon earth.

Now I come to the law of the Lord, and in regard to that I take up a few points. There is a beautiful description here of what the law of the Lord is, "The law of Jehovah is perfect" (verses 7, 8). I alter the name to 'Jehovah' because Jehovah is a name of relationship. When you see the heavens declaring the glory of God, and that God has set Christ there as a great light, then you can walk in peace on earth, and

the law of Jehovah becomes your guide; the righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. I do not doubt that Israel will hereafter appreciate the law as the expression of God's will. We are in a scene where there is no way; the world is morally a wilderness, but we walk in the light of heaven, and have a guard and guide for our pathway down here. This psalm gives you the law of God as guard and guide.

The first thing in detail is that you yield your body a living sacrifice. It is the one thing recognised as in the disposal of the christian. In the mind of God the old man is crucified with Christ. All that a man is morally, as a man, is gone for God in the death of Christ. The thing of which God yet takes account is the body, and for the reason that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, it is that which you have to present to God, and it is presented a living sacrifice; you recognise that the time past has sufficed for the doing of your own will, and now you are to prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. It is a comfort to know that that will has been perfectly set forth here upon earth. We are not called to walk in an untrodden path; the will of God has been perfectly set forth in Christ; He could say 'I have glorified Thee on the earth, I have finished the work that Thou gavest Me to do'. In the path of Christ the christian is called to walk. The first thing is that your own will is set aside; it is will that distinguishes each one of us. Your will is not mine, and mine is not yours. but every christian's will is gone. Our old man is crucified with Christ, so that we are to have no will. The body is to be yielded up as a sacrifice to God. Hence you have to consider what you do with your body. If you had the sense that your body was devoted to Christ, you would be careful how you used it. You would not care to adorn it on the one hand, nor would you be careless about it on the other. If you neglect

it, it may become a hindrance; on the other hand, if you indulge your body it will lead to corruption. Christ was here on earth fulfilling the will of God; He carried out all the thoughts of divine goodness, and presented grace to man. He was setting forth what was that good and acceptable and perfect will of God down here. That was never set forth until Christ set it forth, and now we are called to walk in that path. Thus we come to have a sober thought of ourselves according to the will of God. "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith", Romans 12:3.

I have no doubt that your true measure is the light of God in you; whatever may be the measure of your faith, that is your power for God. The measure of Abraham was his faith, so too I might go on to speak of Moses and many another. It is of little moment to God whether a man is great in the world or a beggar. The fact is that the poor in this world are rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom; on the other hand, a man rich in this world may be poor in faith. The true measure of every one will come to light some day; those who are rich in faith will then be vindicated. It is a great thing to take account of this. According to the measure of faith you have to walk soberly down here, giving up all high thoughts of yourself, if you want to be at all useful for God. I do not care to think of myself above the light which God has been pleased to give me. Practically nothing can be more important than to maintain that the walk of a christian is to be governed by his faith, that is, that he should not go beyond his faith. You will never do anything easily except as the fruit of faith. Many have gone on, as it were, goaded by conscience, but that is not faith. A man is truly great as he enters into the will of God. He appreciates the law of God. The revelation of His

will is a delight to that man, and his pleasure is to walk in the law of God. He meditates in it day and night. It is his guard and guide.

Now the first thing that we have to recognise in connection with faith is that we are members of one body; though many, we are members one of another; and in connection with the one body each one has an appointed function; that must be the case with every member of the body. My hand has not the least doubt of its function in regard to the body. So, too, I might speak of any member of the body; if a member of the body is unable to fulfil its function, that member is paralysed, but in a healthy condition every member of the body naturally fulfils its own proper function in the body, and does not in any way interfere with any other member. Every member subserves the body. We have to recognise that we are all one body in Christ, members one of another. Hence your first obligation is not to father, mother, husband, or wife, but as in the body of Christ. Your first obligation is the will of God, and has reference to the place that He has given to you in the body of Christ. Saints sometimes put the natural obligations before the spiritual, and it does not answer. If you put the spiritual obligation first, God will help you in regard to the natural. It is not God's will for the christian to go on in a path of isolation; that is a point to be recognised, and the exhortations here are to this end, that you shall carry out your obligation in the body in the best way possible. So he that ministereth is to wait on his ministry; he that teacheth, on teaching; he that exhorteth, on exhortation; he that giveth, with simplicity. It often happens that while christians do a right thing they spoil it in the doing of it. The point is to do the right thing in the best way; and I venture to urge that each one of us has an obligation to one another. We are not all teachers or exhorters, but each one may give with simplicity, or perhaps show

mercy with cheerfulness, in order to help and encourage another.

I think I can say that nothing would give me more profound satisfaction than to encourage or cheer any christian under pressure down here. I may fail in the carrying of this out, but that is what I would wish to do.

Whatever function has been assigned to you in the body, be content to carry it out in simplicity, in the best way possible by the Spirit of God. That is what it is to be here for the good and acceptable and perfect will of God. We may try and do great things when perhaps God has intended us to do small things. To be here for the will of God, and do small things in the best way is far safer and happier than trying to do great things so as to be conspicuous. No member of the human body claims supremacy; every member of the body fulfils its own function, and the same things should mark the saints.

Now there is just a word more in regard to the latter part of the chapter. A mere moralist could hardly fail to admit the perfectness of the passage; I mean as a rule of life for men down here; you get guides and guards. It involves that you have your senses in measure exercised to discern between good and evil; and that is what God intends to have in the christian. We are brought under the influence of Christ, and to the knowledge of God, in order that we may get a right conception of good and evil, so as to abhor that which is evil, and cleave to that which is good. In the world there is a great mixing up of good and evil; there are traces of good which is of God; on the other hand, there is a fearful power of evil. God has set to work to disentangle, and that work has been done in degree in the christian. His senses are exercised to discern between good and evil. We have a sense of what is good because the light of God is in the heart; on the other hand, we get a perception of what is evil, and have to refuse the evil and cleave to the good.

One point more is that we are not to be overcome of evil, but to overcome evil with good. We get a perception of good and evil, and power is there, so that instead of being overcome of evil we overcome evil with good. There never was a person in the world who had not pleasure in being an overcomer, the trial is in being overcome. When your soul is so acquainted with good that instead of being overcome, you overcome, there is really happiness and satisfaction; and that is the effect of walking in the light of the sun. We have our sun in heaven; Christ, who presents to us all the goodness of God. I could not say I am good, but I can say that my soul has become acquainted with good. I have seen the superiority of good to evil in the cross; all was disentangled there. Now the soul of the christian is instructed in the goodness of God, and in the presence of goodness he learns what evil is. And we find power to overcome evil. So that if one has to do with an enemy he heaps coals of fire on his head. I do not try to avenge myself; the path is to break a man down by overcoming evil with good. if vengeance has to be exercised, that is the Lord's part, and not mine. I can only say that if you walk thus in the light of divine goodness down here, you may depend upon it, your path will be greatly simplified. It is a great thing to be able to walk in that light, to be able to look up to heaven and say, "The heavens declare the glory of God" and "In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun".

I repeat what I observed at the outset, that grace is commensurate with glory, for both grace and glory have their foundation in the death of the Lord Jesus Christ, so that we are not at all afraid of glory because conscious that grace is commensurate with it. Now we are to walk in the power of grace down here; in self-judgment; and in dealing with others to seek to carry out our function in the body, and, as a general principle, to overcome evil with good.

May God give us grace that we may be well pleased to walk down here in the path appointed for us, and to find our infinite delight in the law of God, in the blessed expression of His will in regard to us as down here.

GOD'S APPROACH TO MAN

Gospel Address by F.E.R.

Exodus 19:16 - 25; Luke 2:1 - 20

There is an interest attaching to the four gospels which belongs to no other part of the Scriptures. It has been pointed out that there is a character about what is recorded in them which you cannot find elsewhere, and the reason is that you are brought in them into the presence of perfection. There is no other part of scripture that has quite that character. The greater part of scripture is occupied with the conduct of men, and God's consequent dealings, at the same time with the unfolding of the thought of God in regard to men; all that is taken account of more or less in the Old Testament; and when you come to the writings of the apostles you get the exercises of imperfect men; for after all the greatest apostles were imperfect men, and they make no secret of their own weakness. But in the gospels you are brought into the presence of divine perfectness, and that gives a character to the gospels which no other part of scripture can have.

Connected with this is a sense of rest which you can never get short of perfectness. I greatly admire the faithfulness and service of men like Paul or John or Peter, but at the same time I do not get in them perfectness. I get exercises and anxieties and sometimes failure, but the actings recorded in the gospels present to us perfectness, and therefore it is that you can rest.

It has been said sometimes that the gospels give to us four aspects of Christ. I do not entirely agree with that, because there is but one aspect of Christ; and the truth of Christ is presented to us in one gospel. The gospel that presents to us the Person of Christ is

John. The other gospels set forth that same Person in relation to various things that existed. In Matthew He is presented in relation to the promises of God; in Mark, in relation to the testimony of God; and in Luke, in relation to humanity -- the seed of the woman. Hence it is that preachers draw more frequently from Luke than from any other gospel, and I think they are right.

I have no doubt that is the reason why you get a great deal of detail in Luke in connection with the birth of Christ; for that is the point where He has touched humanity. He saw fit to become man in order that He might be a Saviour to men, and that is the deep interest of the gospel.

But one point is to my mind striking, and that is that the presence of Christ here was not for the pleasure of His parents; that comes out in a striking way in this chapter. It was too great a thing altogether for that; God did not intend to exalt the flesh. I have no doubt of the blessing of Mary in being the mother of Jesus, but His birth was not for the pleasure of man. It is striking that in this chapter, which speaks of His birth, the next thing is His circumcision, and that points to His cutting off, and the next is the offering a sacrifice, which again points to His death, and then Simeon speaks to His mother of a sword piercing through her own soul, an allusion, no doubt, to the sorrow which she would have to go through in connection with Christ; and at the close of the chapter we see that the Lord could not accept the control of His parents when the work of His Father was concerned. He was afterwards subject to them, because everything was divinely perfect, but He was here for the pleasure of His Father, and not for the pleasure of His earthly parents. The chapter which records the birth of Christ points on to His death. You may not see this at the first glance, but if you read the chapter carefully it is very clear. In fact all that

the heavenly host spoke of, that is, "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good pleasure in men", could be effected only by the death of Christ. It was not going to be brought about simply through His birth, but through His death.

It has been pointed out that when the Lord entered Jerusalem to suffer, the children cried, "Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest". They did not speak there of peace on earth, but of peace in heaven.

Now I desire to point out the contrast between what comes out in Exodus 19 and in this chapter. The point in this chapter is evidently of God's approach to man; in Exodus 19 God was bringing home to the people how impossible it was for them to approach Him. The two things are a striking contrast. That is, in Exodus we find God giving the strongest injunctions to Moses to prevent the people breaking through, showing how impossible it was for the people to approach God. I have no doubt that to approach God under those circumstances would have been death; death lay upon man as God's judgment, and God would not have man to approach Him when it was a question of man as such. It was not there a question of God and of His grace to man; it was God having to deal with man with the judgment of death still upon him, and therefore it was impossible for man to approach God, and yet God was going to speak in man's hearing.

In Luke 2 it is another matter altogether, it is the approach of God to man. When God saw fit to approach man, He approached him as it were at the very weakest point of humanity. There is nothing more blessed than the thought of the Son of God as a babe wrapped in swaddling clothes and lying in a manger. It was the outset of God's approach to man. He was about to make Himself known to man as the Saviour-God. And the beginning was the Son of God become Man. He had become Man in all

perfectness, but in all reality. The inn is a picture of the world, the busy, restless world, in which there is no rest nor room for Christ.

A town like this is a busy, restless scene, and though there is room in it for many things of man you will find very little room for Christ. So it was when Christ was born.

One can see what sin meant, at the beginning, in the case of Cain. He virtually said the earth is for man, but man will acknowledge God, and that is what man says today. But God will not have to say to man on those terms. The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof, and the Lord disposes of the earth as He sees fit. What is seen in Cain gives the character of almost all the professed worship of God in christendom at the present day. There are harvest festivals and the like, a certain acknowledgment of God, but at the same time man is virtually saying in his ways the earth is man's.

I desire to explain in a few words the reason of the contrast between the two passages before us; it is not one God speaking in one passage, and another in another; the same God who spoke on Sinai, spoke in Luke. The difference is this, that in Exodus 19 He spoke on earth, and in Luke 2 He was, I think, speaking from heaven. He spoke in man's hearing in Exodus 19; He spoke as to what man ought to be, but He hardly spoke to man. But in Luke 2 it pleased God to speak to man as to what was in His mind towards man. It is the beginning of God's approach to man, God coming out of His place to make known His thought and mind toward man. You have a description of it doctrinally in 1 Timothy 2, "there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all"; and the thought in connection with that is that God would have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I think you will admit that the contrast between the

two passages is striking, considering that it is the same God speaking. When God spoke on earth He spoke on man's level, as to what man should be for Him. You have immediately following, in chapter 20, the ten commandments; the expression of God's mind as to what man should be for God, but it was not the expression of God's thought and mind toward man. That comes out in Luke 2; He approaches man at the very weakest point of humanity. There is nothing more helpless in this world than a babe, though the germ of a man is there. I ask anyone, was there anything to terrify in Luke 2? You get the multitude of the heavenly host, but there was not anything to terrify man. Would the birth of a babe terrify the shepherds? But in Exodus 19 there was everything to terrify. When God sees fit to approach man in divine goodness and grace, there is everything to assure the heart of man: "unto you is born this day ... a Saviour which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger".

But the most momentous consequences flow out of the birth of that Child. Christendom is one result. I know what christendom is, but say what you will, it is a great power in the world. Had that Child not been born, there had not been any christianity in the world, and the existence of christianity and christendom, whatever it may be worth, is the result of the birth of that Child. I go further, the birth of that Child means the complete overturning of things in heaven and on earth. We have in the Revelation a sort of narrative of the birth of a Man-child to Israel, and that Man-child is caught up to God and His throne; with the result that there is an overturning of things in heaven. There takes place there a conflict that ends in the overthrow of Satan and his angels, and that Man-child is to rule all nations with a rod of iron. When that Man-child comes again into the world He

will break the nations to pieces like a potter's vessel. When He is brought again into the world the angels worship, and everything is changed. You may say it was a very little matter for a babe to be born into this world. Man took no account of it; there was no room for Him in the inn, but no observant person can fail to see the momentous consequences which have flowed, and will flow from the birth of that Child.

The fact is that it meant the approach of God to man in grace; God was approaching man in the Mediator, and as we have seen, every detail that comes out in the chapter points to the truth that Christ must die; that is, that in touching humanity He must give Himself a ransom for all. Nothing can be more solemn than for the Son of God to have become man, because having thus touched humanity it involved the deliverance of man; and to deliver man there was nothing for it but for Him to go into the death which rested upon man. All men were under death when Christ came into the world, and He was to give Himself a ransom for all. If the goodness of God toward man was to take effect, all depended on the Son of God tasting death for everything. He "was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, ... that, he by the grace of God should taste death for every man". What could be the meaning of circumcision but the cutting off of Christ? Sin was to be condemned in the flesh in the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ, that God might impart to man the gift of the Holy Spirit. All that was involved in the birth of this Child to Mary. He was not born into the world that He might adorn the flesh, though flesh was adorned -- God was perfectly glorified in man on the earth. The Lord could say, "I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do". But the fact is He came into this scene that in death He might remove man sacrificially from

under the eye of God, in order that God who was now revealed might impart the gift of the Holy Spirit to those that believe on Christ.

The way of God's approach to man was in a Mediator who gave Himself a ransom for all. The truth is come to light that God is one, and the Mediator between God and man is one. There is not one mediator for the Jew and another for the gentile, one for the rich and another for the poor; the Mediator is one, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all. There is no truth of more importance to press upon souls than that the Mediator between God and men gave Himself a ransom for all; it evidences that God had but one mind in regard to all men. The attitude of God toward all is the same. When Christ was here, the Pharisees and scribes could not tolerate His receiving publicans and sinners and eating with them. He did that continually; in fact He went into any house to which He was invited of Pharisee or publican; but there was this difference between the two. In the house of the publican He was usually welcome, but He was not very welcome in the house of the Pharisee. You find that in Luke 7.

The Lord went into Simon's house, and Simon had his misgivings as to whether Christ was a prophet, because He accepted the service of a sinful woman; the fact is, the Pharisees and scribes could not tolerate the idea of His receiving sinners, and yet if He did not receive sinners and eat with them, with whom was He to eat down here? The poor Pharisee forgot that death was upon him just as much as upon the sinner. Scribe and Pharisee, publican and sinner, were all under death. In the present day, you may get moral people or immoral people, but the philosopher is under death just as much as the immoral man. "By one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned". The inventor and the philosopher

and the man of high cultivation, whoever he may be, are all under death, like the beggar on the dung-hill. When Christ came into the world He was not under death; He was the Prince of life. But if He would have to say to anybody in this world, He must have to say to sinners. He went wherever He had an entrance because all were equal in the eye of Christ. The Lord pictures this in the two debtors in Luke 7. There was a point of equality, in that neither had anything to pay. The parable presents a picture of the attitude of God in Christ on earth. God was the creditor, and every man a debtor, and in their inability to pay He frankly forgave them both. My point in connection with that is, that if Christ became man it involved the cross. He might have abstained from taking up the case of man altogether, but it is evident that He intended to touch man in grace, and there would have been no meaning in His becoming man but in view of death, on account of the condition in which man was. There was no salvation for man if the Son of God did not die upon the cross. He must enter vicariously into the judgment that lay upon man. He was made sin, and entered into death in order that God might be glorified and His righteousness declared in the presence of the universe. Christ died and was buried. That was, so to speak, the manner of God's approach to man. When Christ died the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom, significant of the truth that God in grace had come out to man. Every demand of righteousness had been met, and love flowed out freely to man.

But God raised Him from the dead in testimony of righteousness. Righteousness was accomplished in the cross, and the resurrection of Christ was the testimony of righteousness. It meant that God had broken the bands of death; death was no longer the victor. One man out of death proves that. God was the victor. The death of Christ was the accomplishment of

righteousness on man's behalf, and the resurrection of Christ the testimony of righteousness on the part of God.

Peter says, God raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory. In giving Christ glory there was the expression of divine satisfaction in what had been accomplished for man. The resurrection of Christ was, as we have seen, a testimony; the glory of Christ was a celebration. He was received in heaven with acclamation, and the glory of Jesus at the right hand of God is the blessed expression of the infinite satisfaction of God in that which has been accomplished for man. It is wonderful that God should have supreme satisfaction in that which has been effected for man. The Son of God became man and ministered here in the world, setting forth to man what God was, "doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil"; but He went into death, because death alone could meet the case of those on whom death was; but He has been raised from the dead and glorified. And the great supper is the answer down here. It is the celebration here. I allude to Luke 14. The Holy Spirit has come down to bring tidings of the celebration in heaven. God now compels men to come into the great celebration. Do you not think that God must be very willing to receive man when He has expressed His satisfaction in what has been accomplished for man?

A few words more; I want to show you how man comes into the good of what has been done. I want to set before you a very simple truth; Christ died for all. The practical result of that is that He has claim on everybody. It could not be otherwise. If anyone here were under pressing obligations, and it was in my power to discharge those obligations, and did so, it would be admitted that I had some claim on that person. Christ has done this, and surely His claim upon all must be admitted. What do you think He

claims? I should say two things: the faith of your heart, and the confession of your mouth. He claims that you shall acknowledge what is true. You are called to believe with your heart that God raised Him from the dead. He claims the faith of the heart, and then the confession of the mouth; the confession of Him as Lord. That means salvation to you, "if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation". So the terms are not hard; His claims are not exacting. He does not claim the confession of the mouth and then the faith of the heart, but first the faith of the heart and then confession with the mouth; and the confession is unto salvation. It is infinitely blessed that we should have the light of what has been effected in heaven. We know what had been done on earth. The death of Christ was not in a corner, but in the presence of the world. He was put to shame in the presence of the universe. He was made a curse by being hanged on a tree. And now Christ is Lord at the right hand of God, having been received in heaven with acclamation, and the Holy Spirit has come down to report His glory. God "raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God". He is Lord for the glory of God the Father, but He is Lord for the salvation of man; and to confess Him as Lord is salvation for man.

I ask, are you out of bondage? God has remitted His claims upon man that man might be set free from the power of the enemy.

Salvation means that God has come out of His place to deliver man from the captivity in which man was held, just as He delivered the Israelites from bondage to the Egyptian.

The difficulty on the part of man is that he does not

care to be delivered, but would rather remain in bondage. But to remain in bondage means that you go on to death, and after that the judgment. God's mind and will is to deliver man from the bondage of the god and prince of this world.

Now I put it to you whether you would not be prepared to answer to the claims of Christ, to confess the Lord's name. To escape thus out of the power of the enemy, to have forgiveness of sins, so that you will never come into judgment, because God has remitted His claims; that your soul should be free and yourself brought into the light of the goodness of God, into accord with His righteousness, with the rejoicing in heaven consequent on Christ having completed righteousness and gone back to glory.

May God be pleased to bless the word to you, and to grant that you may have the deepest sense of the grace and goodness of God and appreciate more the manner of His approach to man, not to terrify man, but to make known to him His infinite satisfaction in that which has been accomplished on the behalf of man.

THE CALL OF GOD AND THE LAND OF PROMISE

Address by F.E.R.

Genesis 12:1 - 20; Exodus 15:13 - 18; Joshua 5:10 - 12

We have to bear in mind a principle laid down in the New Testament, that things which happened aforetime were types, and are recorded for our admonition, on whom the ends of the world are come. They were types of what was to come to pass in the present time. Everything looked forward to the time when God would take in hand to accomplish the purposes of His will, and a very large number of things in the Old Testament are recorded in view of this for our admonition, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.

It is in that way I take up a circumstance or two in connection with Abraham. Evidently Abraham is a striking figure in the ways of God: he occupies a place which no other person occupies in Scripture. He is one of the great landmarks in the ways of God, and the place he has is unique. He is the father of the faithful, and was called the friend of God. I think if terms of that kind are applied to Abraham, you may be sure that he occupies a conspicuous place, and further, he is the first instance in Scripture of the call of God.

You see previously instances of men of faith, that is, having light from God. Abel had light from God, so too Enoch, but we do not read of Abel or Enoch being called. They are borne witness to in the New Testament as men of faith; they pleased God in that sense, but the call of God had not come in. I think the call of God did not come in until the world had virtually become apostate.

The building of the tower of Babel was an indication that the world had become apostate, had turned away from all that was known of God. Babel meant a great deal on the part of man. They proposed to build a city and a tower, to make a name for man, and one thing or the other must stand, God's name or man's name. You cannot have the two together. Men try hard to have them together. If God's name is to be anything there is no name for man. On the other hand, if man has a name there is no name for God. I understand name in Scripture to indicate, in a general way, renown. Man would build a city for his own renown. But all things are of God, and God operates all for His own glory. He will never work for the glory of man save in Christ, and the glory of Christ Himself is the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Thus the call of God comes in at a peculiar moment when the world had turned apostate. God scattered men and prevented the purpose of man being effectuated. He had shown his hand; that is, what he would do. The principle really comes to a head in antichrist; but as early as Babel man had shown his mind; and God answers this by the call of Abram, and this call indicated a new point of departure. There were three features about it; Abram was called out from country and kindred and father's house, he was called to the land of promise, a land that God would give him; and there God would bless him. These are the three salient points in the call of Abram.

God was not dealing with Abram in the way in which He deals with us; there was no gospel presented to Abram; he knew nothing about the grace of God or the kingdom, for it was not yet established. He knew little about salvation; the one thing which God addressed to Abram was a call. God addresses us in His grace, making known to us His mind toward all in the forgiveness of sins, and salvation from the power of the enemy. God has approached us in that way.

We never learnt in the first instance the call of God, what we learnt was the grace of God. The grace that freed us from the fear of judgment to come, and wrought to deliver us from the god and prince of this world, making known to us the name of the Lord Jesus.

But God's way was different in the case of Abram, gospel was not presented to him. He had first a call from God, and glad tidings of blessing followed on that.

I will show you presently that the gospel contains the call of God; it is hid in it. God has all along been calling; "Whom he did predestinate, them he also called". But He does not present Himself to us now exactly in the call, but in the truth of the gospel; that is, in the testimony of His grace. The candle brings to light the lost piece of silver.

God called Abram out of country and kindred and father's house, because God was not there. God had set His mind on Abram; he had blessing for him, and therefore called him out of the scene where He Himself was not. Where Abram dwelt men had turned idolaters, and certainly God was not there. Idolatry must shut God out. The time will come when God will crush idolatry, but in the meantime it shuts God out. Had He been there, He would not have called Abram out; and that is always the meaning of the call of God. He calls out from every influence of this world, for every such influence is antagonistic to God. It is vain to think that it is otherwise. The world is an evil world, and every element of it opposed to the influence of God. The Lord Jesus said, in Luke 14, "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple".

God called Abram out into a land of promise. As a matter of fact, Abram hung back a bit, for when he came out he brought his father with him, and that

detained him on the road, so that he did not really get into the land until his father was dead, until that link was broken. But Abram was called into the land which God was going to give him for an inheritance. It was literal land in the case of Abram, for it meant the land of Canaan. In our case the land of promise is not literal, and does not give us a position on this earth. God's thought is to bring us into the land of promise to survey the whole extent of His purposes in Christ -- the breadth, and length, and depth, and height. That is the land of promise in the case of christians. To Abram it was a land flowing with milk and honey; it is not quite that to us. It was God's land.

And further, God would bless Abram. I have no doubt that the blessing of God pointed on to life eternal. Abram was called unto life eternal, he is presented to us as the subject of the call of God; at the same time he is the father of the faithful, and we apprehend him as the type and figure of the heavenly man, a stranger and pilgrim on earth. You can appreciate the reality of the heavenly calling in the case of Abram. He became the head of an earthly family, but brings before us the truth of the heavenly calling. Abram looked for nothing on earth; he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. I never knew a city on earth that rested on moral foundations. Hence we have no continuing city. I do not care for a city built in a swamp on piles. Abram sought a better, that is, a heavenly country, "wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city". I only refer to this to show that Abram's calling was in principle heavenly.

But to refer for a moment to Abram's response to the calling; Genesis 12:4 - 10. Abram came into the land, but he did not enter into possession of the land of promise; that is, he did not enter into the present enjoyment of the things promised. All that he had

there showed that he was a stranger and a pilgrim; he had an altar and a tent. If I speak of a christian in his outward life, that is all that he has; this comes out in the last chapter of the Hebrews, that is, we have gone forth to Christ without the camp bearing His reproach, but we have an altar; that marks the christian down here. Pilgrims and strangers having a place of communion with God, but that was a very different thing from entering into the enjoyment of the promised land. God calls Abram afterwards to survey the land, but it is clear that he did not enter into the enjoyment of the land. I think there were two reasons for this: first, the Canaanite was there, and second, there was a famine in the land. The famine was perhaps consequent on the Canaanite being there. If you are to get abundance, it needs that the power of evil shall be subdued. That is what led me to the other two passages that I read.

When God set Himself to fulfil to the seed of Abraham His promise, He delivered Israel and brought them into the wilderness, and what then took place? Fear fell upon all the inhabitants of Canaan. They were ready to melt away. The dread of God's power fell upon them, and when the Israelites came into the land we do not read that they found a power, but that the inhabitants of the land were in dread of them. When they came to Jericho the walls fell down before them; and when they came up into the land everything was changed; they ate the old corn of the land, and the manna ceased. So far they came into enjoyment, as eating the produce of the land, because the power of God was before them; He had broken to pieces the power of the enemy. God gave a great testimony to His power on behalf of His people in that when the people compassed the walls of Jericho, the walls fell down, and the people went up straight before them, and found no power. Now I think you will see the great contrast between the children of Israel and Abram

in that respect. In the time of Abram the Canaanite was in the land; four hundred and thirty years had to elapse before the fulfilment of God's promise, because the iniquity of the Amorites was not yet full. It was impossible at that time for Abram to enter into the enjoyment of the land; but when God put forth His power, the fear of God fell on the inhabitants of the land, and the children of Israel went up and ate the old corn of the land.

Now I do not pursue the history of Abram further. It has often been noticed that he went down to Egypt and lost in a sense his usual pious life; he had neither tent nor altar in Egypt. I doubt if he was divinely guided to Egypt; he went there as a matter of prudence, for sustenance. His profession, to that extent, was obscured during his sojourn in Egypt.

I come now to the call of God in regard to ourselves; and I ask you to turn to Galatians 1:15, 16; Galatians 3:26 - 29, and Galatians 4:4 - 7. The apostle is seeking, as I understand it, to save the Galatians from the bondage into which they were in danger of falling, bondage to legalism and the flesh, and he recalls them by bringing before them the call of God. He does not bring before them the first principles of the gospel, but shows them the way in which gentiles are brought into the line of Abraham; for, as we have seen, Abraham was the first of the line of the call of God, and the object of the apostle is to show them that the call of God was intended to bring them into the line of Abraham. He does not bring before them the establishment of the kingdom, the Lord Jesus at the right hand of God, the grace of God and forgiveness of sins, and salvation; he does not go back to the elements. I suppose they had received the elements of the gospel. There had been given to them, no doubt, a full testimony of the grace of God, and they had received further the gift of the Holy Spirit. Now the strange thing was that, having received the gift of the Holy Spirit, they were desiring to go to law

and circumcision, and the apostle seeks to recover them by presenting to them the call of God. The important feature of the gospel is that in it is hid the call of God; God's part is to call, our part is to answer to His call. God is content with nothing short of that; that we should hear and respond to His call. God is not content with our being saved from the fear of judgment to come; that is not exactly the call of God. God presents the glad tidings of forgiveness of sins to all, but that is not God's purpose; it is in the line of His grace, but it is hardly His call, or the purpose of it.

Now, in the beginning of this epistle, the apostle comes at once to the call of God. "When it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen" -- that indicates the call of God. It was God expressing His love in His Son in order that souls might be brought into sonship. It is not the glad tidings of the grace of God or the kingdom, but what lies at the back of all, the presentation of God's love, in order that we might be brought in the sense of God's love to the reality of sonship. It is of all moment to apprehend the call of God in that light. You get the thought of it in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". The call of God comes out especially by the apostle Paul, God revealed His Son in him to that end. And the apostle, in chapter 3, says, "ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus". He speaks of that into which the call of God had brought them. And in the next chapter the same truth is brought out. "When the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons" -- that is the call of God. Not

remission of sins, or, standing in the grace of God, but sonship; that is, that, being affected by the love presented in the sending forth of God's Son, we might come into the reality of sonship. "Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son".

In the tendency to defection and departure on the part of the Galatians, it is striking to see how the Spirit of God set to work to recall them.

It might have been argued to them by false teachers that if circumcised they would come into connection with Abraham; but that was not the divine way; this is, that, being affected by the love presented in the sending forth of God's Son, they came into sonship, and if so they were Christ's, and thus Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. Gentiles could not be the seed of Abraham after the flesh, circumcision would not make them that; they are the seed of Abraham by being Christ's. If you are Christ's, you are inseparable from Christ, and so Abraham's seed. To be Christ's is to be united to Him, and he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit. The apostle's object was to show the Galatians that God had His own way of bringing the gentiles into the line of Abraham, and this was by their answering to the call of God.

Tendency to defection proves that saints are not affected by the love of God. If they were, there would not be defection. The love of God is better than anything you can get in this world. I would rather be the subject of the love of God than have all that the world can offer. God's love can do far better for me than all the wealth of the world, for if I had this I am still under death, and must leave all when I leave the world.

The Galatians were in fact allowing a great deal that was contrary to the Spirit of God, biting and devouring one another. They were giving licence to the flesh, and hence the apostle had to say to them that the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against

the flesh; the love of God was but poorly appreciated by them. The Spirit sheds abroad the love of God in the hearts of the saints, but the Galatians were hindering the Spirit.

Now, as we have seen, in entering into the call of God you come into the line of promise. The grace of God brings us into the wilderness; the love of God brought Israel into the land. It does the same for us, that is, into sonship. Sonship belongs to the land of promise; things are complex with the christian, for while actually in the wilderness he is in spirit in the land of promise. The call of God refers to the land of God's promise, that is, of His purpose. As a matter of fact, we are in the wilderness during the whole of our sojourn in this world. The wilderness is where God disciplines us, and it is there we have a tent and an altar. But we are in the land of promise, and the Canaanite is not in power. And further, there is no famine there; that is as true to us as it was to the children of Israel; it was not true to Abraham. When he came into the land the Canaanite was there.

In Ephesians 4:7 - 13, the point is that Christ has led captivity captive; He has ascended far above all heavens to fill all things; and having gone there we have a pledge of the overthrow of all evil power. He is the Head of all principality and power. It is said in Hebrews 2, "But now we see not yet all things put under him. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour, that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man". The power is taken out of the hand of the enemy, Christ is ascended that He might fill all things; that is the meaning of His ascension. The Canaanite is no longer in power. The Lord said as to Satan, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven". Christ is superior to Satan; He will bruise Satan under our feet shortly. There is nothing that can compare with

the power of Christ, not all the power of the universe can compare with the power that He has as man at the right hand of God. We wait for Him from heaven as Saviour, to change our body of humiliation, that it may be fashioned like unto His body of glory, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself. His power does not come out yet in a public way, so that man can take account of it. It comes out in gift, and the object of gift is that you may be conscious that there is no famine. You may rove about the land of promise in the consciousness that Christ is above all adverse power, and Christ uses His power in order that His people may be ministered to, so that there may be no lack. When the Lord Jesus was here on earth, where He was there was no need. In the wilderness, with a multitude and only seven loaves and two fishes, there was no need, and where He is in power there is no need to His people. According to His power at the right hand of God He has given gifts to men down here; "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God". We are being brought into the unity of the faith, and of the clear knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. We are led thus into the apprehension of the truth of Christ's body; for that is what I understand by the fulness of Christ. He is set forth in His body. That is the end that God has in view. There are two things true of christians in the calling of God; one is that they are sons of God according to His eternal purpose, and the other, that they are the body of Christ. In the one we are companions of Christ, but that is not all the truth. Those who are the sons of God, the brethren of Christ, are the body of Christ; that is, they are that in which Christ is expressed. That is the place which the church occupies down here. On the one hand, a worshipping company, in association with Christ, the sanctifier and

the sanctified are all of one; and on the other, Christ's body, that in which He is set forth in the world from which He has been rejected, that is what God has brought to pass, that there might be a presentation of Christ on this earth. You can understand the church could not be His body if it did not stand in relationship with Him; the members must be of necessity the brethren of Christ.

I think the church is here as a kind of pledge that Christ is going to fill all things; that cannot be unless there is complete separation from the world. It would be wonderful if christians understood their calling, the place which the call of God has given to them in association with Christ, and that they are left here that Christ may be expressed in them.

One word more -- you have to remember that Satan is no longer in power. Christ is now in power, and the power of Christ which will eventually subdue everything to Himself is connected with the gifts which Christ has given, that there may be no lack to His people; they are ministered to, and built up, and grow up in all things to the Head, which is Christ.

May God give to us to apprehend His calling.

DELIVERANCE

Reading, Revised by F.E.R.

Colossians 2:1 - 23

J.S.A. You said there is a distinction between salvation and deliverance, that one is from the power of the enemy and the other has to do with detail.

F.E.R. I think so; the grace of God brings salvation, and I have no doubt that the truth of salvation is bound up with the kingdom; that is, the kingdom of God means salvation for man. Man is delivered from the authority of evil by being brought under the moral sway of God. You get the statement definitely, "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins", Colossians 1:13, 14.

R.S.S. Of course deliverance is included in salvation.

F.E.R. I do not think it is exactly.

J.T. Do you think the Red Sea would illustrate salvation?

F.E.R. Quite so. Salvation was from the Egyptian, but the people had the question of the flesh raised afterwards; that is where the need of deliverance comes in, from all that in which the flesh lives, and by which it is recognised.

W.M. Would you say deliverance would not be needed if we went to heaven at once?

F.E.R. The necessity for deliverance comes in from our being left down here upon earth, where things are unchanged; and actually living in flesh.

J.S.A. And therefore there may be souls who have learnt what salvation is, but who are very little in the practical power of deliverance.

F.E.R. I think it is plain that if you are under the moral sway of God you are delivered from the authority of the enemy; these two things must go together. When Israel were brought to God they saw the Egyptians dead on the sea shore. I think it is important to remember that the grace of God brings salvation, you have not to attain it.

R.H. Salvation comes first, and deliverance afterwards in detail.

F.E.R. I think that is so in the history of most of us.

G.B. What do you mean by detail?

F.E.R. I spoke of all those things through which evil affects us, that is the detail. We have many things to meet with here, that is, sin, the world, and the flesh; but behind all these is the power of the enemy; the devil could not touch us otherwise. Salvation refers to the authority of what is behind, that is, the enemy.

G.R. Would you say that salvation is from all that is against us, whereas deliverance is from what we are?

F.E.R. I think we get deliverance from what is in a way external, from sin and from law and the world.

J.S.A. But deliverance in detail is a practical necessity if we are to enter into and enjoy the purpose of God.

F.E.R. And an important point is that the secret of it lies in the divine nature. It is not effected any other way.

W.E. Is that what the apostle's conflict is for here?

F.E.R. Well, I think it is. The apostle desired for the saints the full assurance of understanding to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God. Afterwards he speaks of their being risen and quickened together with Christ, and that implies partaking of the divine nature.

G.R. Could you open that up a little, because it is somewhat new to most of us?

F.E.R. It means this, that you get deliverance as

you are prepared for it; you get such an appreciation of the love of God that deliverance becomes an absolute necessity and is effected by the knowledge of God.

G.R. Is that what is meant in the epistle of John, "For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil"?

F.E.R. Quite so. You are free in proportion as you know the love of God, that is, from the detail.

J.S.A. And practically it is really attraction of the heart to Christ, in whom the love of God was set forth.

F.E.R. You are quickened together with Him, and then it is that you have put off the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.

G.R. Would you say that is the experience of a man in Romans 7? He delights in the law of God, but he cannot do it; he is not free.

F.E.R. I am rather inclined to doubt if that man has got salvation -- I doubt if he is brought to God; he certainly has not deliverance. What is pictured there is that the flesh is all powerful, so that he cannot do the things he would.

J.T. In the passage you quoted in the first chapter, "made us meet", does that include deliverance?

F.E.R. That includes salvation, but not deliverance; because the question of your deliverance does not affect your meetness, God hath made us meet.

E.P. In that same scripture it mentions, He "hath delivered us", how about the word 'deliverance'?

F.E.R. Yes, but you must not hang too much on a word, else you may make the study of Scripture a mere question of a concordance.

W.M. Deliverance there has not the same force as that which we are considering.

F.E.R. No, it is deliverance from authority or domination; you are brought out of one and translated into another.

W.M. Does deliverance lie more in verse 13, "hath he quickened"?

F.E.R. Yes, but I think you get with that the truth, "ye are circumcised". So, too, you get the same thought in the next chapter, in a different form; in the having put off the old man.

J.T. I do not understand what 'meetness' means; does it refer to the work of the Spirit in us?

F.E.R. I should hardly like to put it that way.

J.S.A. I have heard it said that the thief on the cross was as meet as the apostle Paul was.

F.E.R. I think so. We must admit that every christian, though he may not be delivered for earth, is meet for heaven. The work of the Spirit in us does not make us meet for heaven.

J.P. That brings us back to the necessity for deliverance lying in our being left here.

F.E.R. Precisely, but I think you start with a sense that you are meet for heaven, and that you have salvation upon earth.

W.M. Only that does not suppose a work in us.

F.E.R. It supposes the grace of God.

T. Deliverance could not be effected in us apart from the Holy Spirit.

F.E.R. Nor does it ever go beyond what we are in the divine nature; you do not get enjoyment of deliverance by the presence of the Holy Spirit quite, but you enter into deliverance as you are prepared for it. It depends upon the formative work of the Holy Spirit in the believer; what is called, "the renewing of the Holy Spirit".

J.P. You do not enjoy deliverance, but you enjoy that which really involves deliverance.

F.E.R. Precisely.

R.S.S. Why do you say deliverance does not go beyond the divine nature?

F.E.R. Because you are not prepared for it otherwise. As made partaker of the divine nature I am in

the reality of deliverance; it is according to my stature.

R.H. Is the measure of a soul's growth in the divine nature the measure of its deliverance?

F.E.R. Otherwise you make deliverance a kind of attainment. I do not believe in that.

E.P. There would not be any need for deliverance except for the enjoyment of what is of God.

F.E.R. Where christians do not go on they do not care much about deliverance, because they are content with the enjoyment of the grace of God where they are. The need of deliverance comes in when the soul is exercised to enter into the purpose of God about it. If you are going to pass over to Christ's side, then you realise the need of deliverance. I doubt if a person realises deliverance except over Jordan. You cannot connect Christ with the wilderness. In passing over to His side you realise deliverance.

J.T. Where does Numbers 21 come in?

F.E.R. I do not think what is typified in the brazen serpent is deliverance. As I understand it, the brazen serpent was for God. I think the answer in our case to the brazen serpent is Jordan; the lifting up was for God, so that He could communicate to man the gift of the Holy Spirit.

T. Would you say Colossians 2 is the spiritual counterpart of Jordan?

F.E.R. Yes, you are at Gilgal, "putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of the Christ". Deliverance is thus realised; you have come to the truth of your baptism.

R.S.S. What is deliverance from?

F.E.R. I think deliverance is from everything by which the enemy can act upon us, by which he can keep us out of the purpose of God. Salvation clears you of the authority of the enemy; but the enemy retains a kind of hold on people by reason of what is in and about them.

T. Is it not connected in Romans with these three things -- the law, flesh, and sin?

F.E.R. I think so. You get the flesh and the world in this chapter. After all, if you speak of the world, the world is sin.

R.S.S. Would it be right to say that deliverance in Romans was from the man, and Colossians from the place?

F.E.R. The fact is, it is difficult to distinguish between the two, because the place takes its character from the man. I do not know what the world would be without man.

J.C. Deliverance is only useful to me as I seek to be outside of this scene altogether.

F.E.R. It is useful to you when you are exercised to enter into the calling of God. To put it simply, if you are going on for the truth of the assembly you will feel the need of deliverance, for the assembly is outside of all here. Take a christian in system, who connects christianity with the earth, and this place, he does not feel the need of deliverance. He would not care to go on with the gross things of the world, but he does not realise the need of deliverance. You would never hear anything about it in system.

J.P. If it is a question of appreciating the love of God, we find the need of deliverance.

F.E.R. People in system are going on with the rudiments of the world.

E.P. Will you give us a definition of the terms, 'subjective' and 'objective'?

F.E.R. I think in a general way 'objective' is used in regard to what is presented to faith, the light of God's purpose, His will, etc. 'Subjective' refers more to the work of which the person is the subject; that is, the work of the Holy Spirit in him.

E.P. Do we not get this in chapter 2?

F.E.R. I think so, deliverance is connected there with the subjective side.

J.S.A. I think deliverance has very often been treated as if it were in itself an end, instead of being a means in order that the soul might be brought into the enjoyment of God's purpose.

F.E.R. The work of the Spirit in us is to lead us into everlasting life, by bringing us into the calling of God. The Spirit has come from heaven to conduct us to the place from which He has come.

T. Would you say that John 4 presents this aspect of deliverance as leading up to eternal life?

F.E.R. The Spirit, in John 4, involves deliverance, and you get deliverance just in proportion as the well of water springs up to eternal life.

G.F. You get the call of God in connection with eternal life.

F.E.R. Yes, I think Abraham is a figure of that, because he presents the truth of a man blessed of God. Abraham had to look on. The patriarchs embraced the promise, but had not the things promised, "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect".

G.F. You make a distinction between what he was called to, and what he had.

F.E.R. Yes. We are called to something, but the power of that something has come in; that was not the case with Abraham. The power of eternal life had not come in for Abraham.

G.F. Would you say a believer then had eternal life in a certain sense?

F.E.R. I answer it in a very simple way, he has eternal life if he has it.

R.S.S. It is not a very bad way to ask those people who say they have eternal life, what they have got.

F.E.R. If I came across anyone who asserted it at the present time, I would be disposed to say, 'If you have got it, let us have some account of it'. Our difficulty in England was that nobody could give any

account of eternal life. If there had been anybody who could have given an account of it, the difficulty would have been much less. One person said it was one thing, and another said it was another. One old brother, who affected a good many people, said that eternal life was obedience. He took up a verse in John 12, "And I know that his commandment is life everlasting", and argued from that that it was obedience. It shows you in what a muddle the whole thing was. Everybody claimed to have it, but nobody could give an account of it. Another brother asked me, 'Have you got eternal life?' I did not know how to answer it exactly, because he simply meant resting on a statement of Scripture.

G.F. Would you not define eternal life?

F.E.R. I do not think that we have any definition of it. You can speak of what is characteristic of it, and Scripture gives you that, but surely if you claim to have eternal life you can give some account of it. If a man has a possession he can give me some account of what he possesses. Otherwise I doubt if he has it. I do not say he has not title to it.

R.S.S. Or the enjoyment of it.

F.E.R. I think thousands have title to it who are not in the good of it. Eternal life is God's purpose for you; God gave His Son to that end. I have the light of this, and hence it is mine in title, but to say that I have it is another matter.

G.F. You could not say that Old Testament saints were in the light of eternal life.

F.E.R. In a certain sense they had the idea of it. You get in Daniel that some shall awake to everlasting life, and in Psalm 133, "There the Lord commanded the blessing, even life for evermore", and it is certain that when Christ was here persons came to Him questioning Him as to the way of eternal life, the young ruler, for instance. That proves that the thought of eternal life was in the mind of a Jew. The Lord said,

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life".

R.S.S. What they had before them was quite different from what eternal life is for the christian.

F.E.R. What is important is that they had light enough from God to lead them to the idea of eternal life. But God had not revealed the way of it; so Christ says, "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly". It all waited for Christ to come in. It was the same thing referred to all along.

J.T. Would you say it had no actual existence in Old Testament times?

F.E.R. I do not think that men get eternal life apart from the last Adam, and the Holy Spirit. It depended on the introduction of another man, and the Holy Spirit. In the ways of God, the first man was to be set aside, and Christ was to come out as the last Adam a life-giving spirit, and all depended upon that. To talk of people having eternal life before the Son came is not right.

J.T. Some have thought that it was the life of divine Persons as such.

F.E.R. The life of divine Persons is themselves.

T. Has "in the beginning" in John's gospel no reference to time?

F.E.R. In the opening of the first chapter of John's gospel the apostle is, I judge, speaking from his standpoint, not from God's standpoint. "The Word" was a designation of Christ common among the apostles (see Luke 1:2), and the apostle is speaking of Him by the Spirit of God from that standpoint, and identifying the One they had known as "the Word", with God. "In the beginning was the Word, ... and the Word was God". It is His genealogy. It has been said that it carries you back to the furthest point the human mind can conceive; He was there before the world was created.

E.P. Mr. Darby said, I think, 'The beginning of everything that had a beginning'.

F.E.R. The finite mind cannot really conceive eternity.

R.S.S. I do not think that we got all that we might as to the difference between the Son and the Son of God. It was apprehending a little of that which we have in Matthew 11:25, and the following verses, that helped me very much on that subject.

F.E.R. Well, I think 'the Son' presents Christ in distinctness of person but in relation with the Father, and I think 'Son of God' presents Him more in relation to man and the universe. You have "The Father loves the Son" and kindred expressions. 'The Son' is presented as Man. One verse proves that (John 5:26), "For as the Father hath life in himself, so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself". That is the position of the Son in relation to the Father. 'The Son' connects Him with the Father. On the other hand, 'Son of God' puts Him more in relation to man.

R.S.S. Why then are we not to know the Son: "no man knoweth the Son but the Father"?

F.E.R. Because there is that which cannot be known, from the fact of His having taken a place in view of revelation in which He was not before, and that is beyond our ken.

W.M. What about the expression, "Baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"?

F.E.R. That is the form in which God is revealed; that is all simple.

R.S.S. Then where it is the "Son of God" it is what He is as to man from the Father.

F.E.R. I think so. It is more in connection with man, and is the name in which in that way He gets inheritance, etc.

J.T. What do you make of that verse in John 17, "the glory which I had with thee before the world was"?

F.E.R. I think it is His personal distinction with the Father. All I say is, accept Scripture; do not be hampered by tradition. I claim only the light of Scripture.

J.S.A. I think we are on a practical form of deliverance at this moment, and that is deliverance from using incorrect terms as to scriptural things.

E.P. Would you say a little about the terms 'Father' and 'Lord'?

F.E.R. I think you address divine Persons in relation to their particular sphere; you address the Lord in regard to all that comes within His sphere as Lord; and so with the Father.

G.W. What are their respective spheres, may I ask?

F.E.R. I think of Christ as Lord in connection with administration in regard to the world to come; and I would address Him in regard to that, but I do not see that the Lord has any present connection with the world; I think the Father orders the world, and I would address Him in regard to things here. In connection with service, and direction as to service, I should naturally go to the Lord.

G.W. Sometimes in one prayer we address both.

F.E.R. Yes, you cannot draw hard and fast lines; the point is to enter into the spirit of things. If you attempt to be literally correct in prayer you will be much hampered. I think when Christ was here on earth He looked on the Father as controlling everything, and was Himself occupied with doing the Father's will, and He is occupied with the same thing still at the right hand of God, and therefore in regard to all connected with the Father's will I should address Christ; but as to the wilderness I would more naturally go to the Father.

R.S.S. What about that scripture, "My God shall supply all your need"?

F.E.R. "To us there is one God, the Father"; "the Father" expresses the particular Person in whom God is presented to us.

T. Worship also in Scripture addresses itself to the Father.

F.E.R. I think the reason is that the thought of God is presented to us in the Father.

G.B. We can approach God in confidence since we know Him as Father, because we have confidence in love.

F.E.R. I have thought that confidence is the fruit of knowing love. It is so in regard to a child with its parents.

G.W. You do not think that the result of our prayer would be affected by not being addressed intelligently?

F.E.R. No, I do not think it would. The Lord is exceedingly forbearing and considerate, and He deals with us graciously very far beyond our intelligence.

G.R. There is an interesting passage in the end of Matthew 5, where you get the Father, "he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust".

F.E.R. It is all simple; divine things are simple to the simple. The difficulty is not in divine things, but in us.

W.E. They are revealed to babes.

F.E.R. If we were as babes we would understand things without much difficulty.

THE CALLING OF GOD

Reading, Revised by F.E.R.

Ephesians 1:1 - 23

R.H. Would you say that we get the calling of God here?

F.E.R. I think so. The epistle starts from it. In the unfolding of the truth in Romans, you begin with the righteousness of God as the basis of His ways, then you get the kingdom established in the Lord Jesus, and its consequences, our justification and standing in grace; then divine teaching and reconciliation are brought in, and the way of deliverance; and in connection with that, all that is involved in the possession of the Spirit, until at last you are brought, at the close of chapter 8, into the light of the calling; you are led up to it in that way.

R.H. Then all is in the opposite direction here in Ephesians.

F.E.R. Yes. The point at the end of Romans is the starting point here, "whom he did predestinate them he also called". But that is where you start in Ephesians, "who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love".

R.H. You really begin here at the top.

F.E.R. You begin at the top, and you come down from that. Romans and Ephesians are unique in that way. Romans begins in looking at things on man's side down here, his moral state, etc., and showing in contrast to that how God has established in another Man His kingdom in righteousness; but in the opening here you get nothing about man's state, but what God has done in blessing. The Ephesians begins from the

height of eternal purpose; in the first six verses you have no allusion to sin; for the counsel of God was in a sense apart from the question of sin. Sin being there had to be met, of course.

R.H. It is all blessing here.

F.E.R. Yes, "chosen in him" is before ever sin came in; then sin came in and had to be met. So you get further down in the chapter, "In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace".

J.T. If Ephesians is the continuation of Romans, where do you put Colossians?

F.E.R. I do not think Ephesians is a continuation of Romans, but in Ephesians the truth is taken up from the opposite point of view. It is taken up from God's standpoint, not ours.

J.P. So in Romans you go up the stream, and touch the source at chapter 8, but in Ephesians you begin there and come down the stream. You can hardly call coming down the stream a continuation of going up the stream.

T. I suppose Ephesians is an opening out of the counsel of God before the foundation of the world.

F.E.R. Yes.

J.P. Ephesians is not a continuation of anything, but, begins from the purpose of God.

W.M. Do you think that if christians are in the apprehension of God's calling, our lowest blessings are enjoyed better?

F.E.R. You come down to them in this chapter; the first chapter is a full presentation of God's ways in Christ, so that you begin from the very top, and come to forgiveness of sins, and inheritance, and the earnest of the Spirit; but these are in that sense secondary to the calling. The great idea is the calling.

R.S.S. You spoke this morning of the calling and eternal life as though they were synonymous.

F.E.R. The form which eternal life takes in regard

to us is sonship, and if you get into the reality of God's calling, that is sonship, you enter thus into eternal life. The same truth comes out in the last chapter of John's first epistle, "He that hath the Son hath life". You apprehend the calling of God, and it is there that you have eternal life.

J.T. Then in Christ at the present moment we have set forth what God intends in regard to us.

F.E.R. If you follow the chapter down it is a remarkable unfolding of the way in which it has pleased God to present Himself to us "in Christ". The words "in Christ" occur frequently.

J.T. It is not a question of His nature here, but of His purpose; what I mean is this, you recollect some time ago it was remarked that there are two distinct lines in Scripture, one in reference to the nature of God expressed in the death of Christ, and the other in reference to His counsels, set forth in the resurrection of Christ?

F.E.R. Yes. His nature is different from His counsel. Here you get His counsel. There is His nature, for God is love, and "God so loved the world", but at the same time God had His counsels, before the foundation of the world. All those counsels are brought into effect in spite of, and even through, what has come in, that is, sin; but the counsel was there before.

W.M. Those who are the objects of His counsel are before Him in love.

F.E.R. He has chosen us that we should be so.

E.P. Has God formed counsels since sin came in as to the administration of things?

F.E.R. I think all that has come to pass was in the mind of God, and is worked out through what has come in.

J.T. He made promises since sin came in.

F.E.R. But those promises were the expression of His counsel. If you remember, it says in Hebrews 6,

"Wherein God willing more abundantly to show unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel". Hence it is evident that promise is the expression of counsel.

R.H. So that we get this revelation in time of what was in counsel in eternity.

F.E.R. I think so. And so, too, you read, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world", and, "whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world".

J.T. Do the promises to Abraham go beyond the kingdom?

F.E.R. They go as far as this, that Abraham was to be the heir of the world.

G.R. The passage you quoted just now is "from the foundation of the world", but here we have "before the foundation of the world".

F.E.R. Because the things are heavenly; His thoughts concerning the earth were in His mind from the outset, from the time there was a habitable earth.

W.M. Do you think that the light of sonship was presented to the Galatians to have the effect of restoring them?

F.E.R. Yes, the apostle could not restore them by what they knew; you will not bring back people who have departed by what they know; you have to present something else to them. If the Galatians had heard this before, they certainly had not taken it in. The epistle to the Galatians is peculiar in this respect; it plunges, in regard to the gospel, right into the purpose of God, "To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen". I think it served in a strong way to expose the inconsistency of what the Galatians were doing.

G.R. They were going back to the place of servants. Would you say that in verse 3 of this chapter you have

the whole breadth of the blessing of God contemplated?

F.E.R. Yes, I think so.

G.R. Verses four and five open up more relationship.

F.E.R. The truth all goes together; sonship belongs to heaven, and nature belongs to sonship. You could not be brought to sonship without being according to God in nature, and that involves being in heavenly places. That is, the calling is for heavenly places, and heavenly places is the scene proper for the calling.

G.R. The point of the passage is not election, but to connect us with that which is outside the earth.

F.E.R. That is it. There were certain counsels in God's mind, and God has come in to give effect to those counsels. This belongs to another place and refers to what was before the world. It does not belong to the history of time nor the earth. He has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.

J.T. Is the expression 'heavenly' included in the idea of eternal life?

F.E.R. No, I do not think so. I think eternal life refers to earth. I do not think we should talk about eternal life in heaven.

J.T. Only we have it there.

F.E.R. I do not think the term will have much force there.

J.T. The thing will surely be there.

F.E.R. We shall be there.

J.T. I will have to get this clear, for I do not understand it. How do you explain as to eternal life? I have understood that a sphere is included.

F.E.R. I think it implies a sphere of relationship and blessing, but that is not necessarily heaven. It may be heavenly, but it is not necessarily heaven.

I do not see much sense in connecting the idea of eternal life with heaven.

J.T. Well, I do not, but still I have understood that it is connected with heaven also.

F.E.R. I do not know the connection. The point of eternal life is that it comes in where death was. I think it stands in Scripture in contrast to death.

J.S.A. I think there has been confusion between a sphere and a place. The sphere as you use it is moral; the place is more material.

F.E.R. Yes.

J.T. I see you connect eternal life with relationship more, having "chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love; having predestinated us unto the adoption of children"; that is the idea.

F.E.R. Quite so, but you are brought into that in anticipation now, and hence it is you get eternal life.

J.T. Does not sonship belong to heaven?

F.E.R. Yes, but we are brought into that sphere while we are still on earth. You are passed out of death into life.

W.M. Does heavenly places refer to the world to come?

F.E.R. Yes, in its moral connection.

J.S.A. Do you speak of death in a moral way?

F.E.R. I speak of it as the judgment of God on man, "as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin", in contrast with grace reigning "through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord". If you do not apprehend a sphere, you have no idea of eternal life. You may quarrel with the term, but most certainly you have not eternal life in the sphere in which you are naturally.

G.R. Would not that be the way in which Old Testament saints looked at it in contrast with death?

F.E.R. Yes, and they were taught to look at it in that way, "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life".

G.R. But in the New Testament the thought is greatly enlarged.

F.E.R. Because the sphere is brought into light, and the power in virtue of which you can be in that scene.

Ques. Is sonship the sphere?

F.E.R. John 17:3 describes the sphere.

G.R. What do you mean by heavenly places being connected with the world to come?

F.E.R. The inheritance is headed up in Christ in heavenly places. The church is set in heavenly places, "That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus". Thus God will give to the universe a witness, but He does that in the heavenly places.

J.T. What do you make the Father's house; is that synonymous with heavenly places?

F.E.R. No, wicked spirits are in heavenly places, but they are certainly not in the Father's house.

J.T. Is the Father's house the place of sonship?

F.E.R. Yes, but you hardly come into the Father's house until Christ comes and takes you there. At the same time you read in chapter 2, He "hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus".

J.T. Do you think the Father's house is something beyond heavenly places?

F.E.R. Yes.

J.T. Is there not a difference between heaven, as we usually understand it, and heavenly places?

F.E.R. Not that I know of.

W.M. Is there not very little said about the eternal state in the Scriptures?

F.E.R. Very little, I think only about two passages.

J.C. What is the meaning of "passed through the heavens"?

F.E.R. He has gone in that direction as High Priest.

Ques. Have you any thought as to why we have so little said about the eternal state?

F.E.R. I do not know that we want to know much about it now; we have the great features of it given to us.

W.M. You would say that what God is necessarily occupied with is the sphere into which sin and death have entered, and the saints according to Him in it.

F.E.R. Yes. The great question with God is the triumph of good over evil, and you are carried on to that point; you get the solution of every moral question in the Revelation. The book of Revelation does not close until you get the complete disentanglement of good and evil, and each is relegated to its own place. The new heaven and new earth are brought into view; and the devil and his angels, and the children of the devil are all cast into the lake of fire. Evil goes to the devil, and good to God. That is a much more important question than that of place.

W.M. Would you say that all was settled for God at the cross in principle, but in detail it is carried out in the world to come?

F.E.R. Yes, even in the millennium a good deal that is not of God is tolerated, but the final solution of everything is the great white throne.

J.P. So we get the lake of fire at the end of chapter 20, and the new heavens and new earth in the opening of chapter 21, and the tabernacle of God with men.

F.E.R. Yes, that is God's triumph.

W.M. And eternal life is the climax in the world to come.

F.E.R. Yes, death is swallowed up in victory and the blessing is commanded, "there (Zion) the Lord

commanded the blessing, even life for evermore". As to the eternal state, death is cast into the lake of fire; there is no more recollection of it. Therefore you will not want to talk about eternal life in contrast to that.

Ques. Sonship, I suppose, will be spoken of in the eternal state; that will not cease?

F.E.R. No, because it is connected with heavenly places, and God's eternal purpose. He hath predestinated us to sonship, and that is for eternity. The thing in itself is apart from the whole time state; it is before the foundation of the world, and belongs to heavenly places. We are in the light of it, and formed according to it now, to be holy and without blame before God in love. So that we come into the reality of it now.

G.W. So that sonship is greater than eternal life.

F.E.R. I think so.

A.H.P. We have taken it up the other way.

F.E.R. I do not think you get any allusion to eternal life in Ephesians; you get a good deal about it in Romans; even in Colossians you do not get much said about eternal life. In Timothy we have, "Who hath abolished death and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel"; that is down here, and you get the contrast between death and life.

T. Would you say that sonship is distinctive of the church, and eternal life not?

F.E.R. You must not run things on too hard and fast lines; sonship in a certain sense is not distinctive of the church. The church comes into sonship, but I think it has its own peculiar and distinctive place as the church. The church is the body of Christ, and nothing else except the church has that place, but the sons of the resurrection are the sons of God. This shows that the term 'sons' is sometimes employed in a wider way than we are accustomed to use it. Angels in the Old Testament are called the sons of God. We are brought into sonship, but with us it has its own peculiar character in connection with

the Spirit of sonship. The Spirit and sonship are closely connected in us, but the Old Testament saints had not the Spirit of God's Son, and yet Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are the sons of God, being the sons of the resurrection.

J.T. What is the difference between sons and children?

F.E.R. I think the idea of children is that you are suffering with Christ and sharing His rejection here. The thought of sons is that you are associated with Him in glory. Sonship belongs to the assembly.

R.S.S. Would you speak of yourself as a child of God?

F.E.R. I would, without hesitation.

R.S.S. Is that a scriptural expression?

F.E.R. I see what you mean, but "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God". There must be a measure of individuality in the idea of children, for your spirit is not my spirit.

J.S.A. At the same time the blessings that belong to children in a sense are common.

F.E.R. The idea of children of God is that of a generation that is morally of God; it is in the midst of this crooked world that there is such a generation.

J.T. Could you connect sin with the children of God?

F.E.R. I think they may be contemplated apart from sin as the children of God, but "if any man sin we have an advocate with the Father"; properly speaking, the children of God, as such, do not sin, and yet, after all, we are individuals down here, and possibly may sin.

R.S.S. Is the thought of children simply likeness?

F.E.R. The idea is that you are begotten, you are of God. Adam begat a son in his own likeness; so the children of God are of God. I think the truth of children of God is realised by the Spirit. I should

not speak of myself among men as being a child of God; the heart cherishes the idea, but it is, so to say, the secret of the christian. The thought of sonship brings you into association with Christ in glory. You would not, I judge, find in Scripture, 'Ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus'.

J.T. You are not children by faith, but sons by faith.

W.M. Do you read that passage in Galatians, "Ye are all God's sons by faith in Christ Jesus"?

F.E.R. I do.

J.T. But in John it is, "Now are we the children of God".

F.E.R. Yes, but it does not say children of God in Christ.

R.S.S. I suppose, "in Christ" is connected with sonship?

F.E.R. Yes, Christ is the perfect expression of God's mind and counsel in regard to us, and everything is established and expressed there.

W.M. Do you look on the relationship of brethren as more outward?

F.E.R. Fellowship is what we are called into. We come into that by the common confession of Christ as Lord.

Ques. Would you say that belongs to this time and scene?

F.E.R. Yes, it belongs to the house of God.

J.T. But our peculiar privilege is outside of that.

F.E.R. Yes, every christian knows that the Father loves him, and the effect of that is that when we come together we are all conscious of being in common blessing.

G.F. Do you connect the name of Father with children, and God with sons?

F.E.R. No, Father is connected with both.

W.M. Would you stake everything on the truth of Christ's Lordship?

F.E.R. Yes, I would say, if challenged, that I am a believer in the Lord Jesus, because that person, too, ought to be a believer in the Lord Jesus. I could hardly say he ought to be a child. It is wise to take ground down here which everybody ought to take.

W.M. That is, in connection with Christ as Lord.

J.P. Persons are not responsible to be children, but they are responsible to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

F.E.R. The truth of Jesus as Lord involves resurrection and ascension, and everything hangs on it, and therefore I would take my stand on that. Every knee is to bow to Him and every tongue to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. I am content if you confess that He is Lord, but if not I have nothing to say to you. The exaltation of Christ was the testimony on which christianity was founded, and on that one should be prepared to take his stand.

J.T. Do you connect the idea of children with the assembly?

F.E.R. No, because in it you are as sons in association with Christ.

J.T. What is the meaning of that verse in Romans 8, the glory of "the children of God"?

F.E.R. I think sonship.

J.T. So that in the assembly we are brought into the good of sonship.

F.E.R. Yes.

R.S.S. When the Lord sent the message by Mary, "go to my brethren", that was bringing them into association with Himself as sons and not children.

F.E.R. I think so. The great point in John 20 is association with Himself; it is a pattern of the assembly.

J.P. And the connection in Hebrews 2 makes that very clear.

F.E.R. Yes, very clear, "both he that sanctifieth, and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which

cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren". The saints are brethren to Christ, but they are sons to God. This expresses our relationship to the Father and to Christ. He is the Leader in the company, that is the place which Christ has taken as man. God has predestinated us to be conformed to the image of His Son that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

R.S.S. I want to ask a question as to, "conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren". When God first made man He said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". What is the relation between the two expressions, image and likeness?

F.E.R. Image is used in two senses; it is used as representative; for instance, when the Lord took a Roman coin He said, "Whose is this image and superscription?" The image was representative of Caesar; but there is another sense in which image is used, and that is as an intensification of likeness. You may get a likeness which is not an image. If a picture happened to be a very striking likeness, you might say, that picture is the very image of the person. I think when God spoke at the beginning, "Let us make man in our image", it was that man was to be representative in a sense of God, but there was the moral likeness to God also; man is still God's representative here, though likeness is lost. But in the New Testament we are to be perfectly like Him, "conformed to the image of his Son". It is, as I said, the intensification of likeness.

R.H. We get Christ spoken of as the image of the invisible God.

F.E.R. He is not only the image, but He is Creator. In this chapter you get one thing after another taken up, and everything is in Christ. You get forgiveness of sins and inheritance, and the Spirit as the earnest. Everything is taken up in detail as

set forth in Christ, but all are secondary to the greatness of the calling.

J.T. Would you say that all christians are holy and without blame before Him in love?

F.E.R. The question has been often answered, 'Yes', and 'No'. I do not suppose there is a person here who would take the ground of being so, and yet, so far as the work of God has taken effect, you are so.

J.T. You connect it with the work of God, then.

F.E.R. Entirely. God has called you to that. You can only be holy and without blame as you are really so.

G.W. We have the calling of God presented to us, and most of us admit how little we go on in it. How do you connect our responsibility with that? We are certainly responsible for failure; God is not.

F.E.R. I cannot tell you; there may be something to hinder, as the apostle says, "if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you". There are very few of us but what keep some chamber in the heart locked up. It is only God who can unlock it. I think we have very often to humble ourselves, but if there is purpose of heart God will make known to us any kind of hindrance.

J.P. The psalmist seemed set to go on, "One thing have I desired of the Lord, that will I seek after".

F.E.R. The apostle unfolds a great deal in this chapter, but at the end, having done this, he virtually says, I cannot do anything more for you, for he resorts to prayer, and hence owns his own helplessness.

W.M. I suppose prayer in the one in whom the work is being effected would be helpful.

J.T. I feel myself, with regard to all the Lord has been giving us at these meetings, we cannot take anything but what the Lord makes good in us.

F.E.R. We may try to help one another, but we cannot really effect anything in one another. We may

try and make evident to one another what the mind of God is, but that is all.

A.H.E. He uses us instrumentally?

F.E.R. Not as effecting anything.

A.H.E. What are the gifts for, of which you were speaking last night?

F.E.R. That the mind of God may be kept before the saints, but the gifts must be followed by the work of God.

G.F. Do we learn by the discipline in the pathway?

F.E.R. It helps you to learn by the Spirit of God. Discipline comes in to remove hindrances.

W.M. But a gifted person can only bring light.

F.E.R. That is all, he can effect nothing.

J.T. Is it by studying Scripture?

F.E.R. No. The anointing which you have of Him teaches you.

J.T. What is it that we are taught, are we taught the Scriptures?

F.E.R. No, we are taught the knowledge of God.

R.S.S. Is it not really the point, that we are often bent on growing in the knowledge of truth, but after all the great thing is the knowledge of God?

F.E.R. What is the truth? Christ as the expression of God, and therefore if you know Christ you know God and His will; that is what the truth is. We grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ques. Is it all summed up in Colossians 1"growing by the true knowledge of God"?

F.E.R. Yes, and Christ is the Teacher.

E.P. When the apostle Paul commended the Ephesian saints to the word of His grace, what did he mean?

F.E.R. Not simply the Scriptures, because the New Testament scriptures did not exist. It is the word as the expression of God's grace.

J.C. The word of God is in the Scriptures.

F.E.R. Christ is the word of God. The Scriptures are more the record of it, than the thing itself.

R.H. We have to learn from a living Person.

F.E.R. Yes, and no one can teach you but that Person; God alone can teach you; God teaches us by Christ, and Christ teaches by the Holy Spirit.

W.M. What would you say was the value of reading the Bible?

F.E.R. We get things put into shape in our minds, and if you are familiar with Scripture your thoughts are kept within bounds; the Scriptures are the limit, and if you go beyond them you transgress; and if I find you are transgressing the Scriptures, I would say you are all wrong somewhere. But a man who has things simply from Scripture has no power in unfolding the mind of God. You may hear wonderful lectures from people instructed in the Scriptures, but there may be not much power in them.

J.A. John says, "these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name", a means to an end.

F.E.R. Yes. They are a ground for faith as having authority.

W.M. Then a Bible student is not much after all.

F.E.R. I have said that if I had to live over again I would study Scripture less and pray more. The great thing for a christian is to get into his closet and pray. Prayer and meditation.

E.P. Why is the scripture said to make us wise unto salvation?

F.E.R. The man of God wants to be furnished with the Scriptures because of their disciplinary value.

Ques. In Hebrews 4 is the word of God a person?

F.E.R. No, I think it is His testimony. It is, however, very near akin to God Himself.

J.S.A. I think you have said that intelligence is of

great importance to us so that we may communicate to others, but actual growth in the soul depends not so much on intelligence as on the Spirit of God.

F.E.R. The Scriptures show what God has given you, and it is put into its own proper place by the Spirit in the soul.

J.T. You remarked some time ago that they had no scriptures in the early days.

F.E.R. No, they had the word of the apostles, but they had not the communications in a written form.

G.F. What about the word of God grew and multiplied, in the Acts?

F.E.R. It was the apostles' testimony, not the Scriptures.

W.M. Bibles were not plentiful.

R.S.S. I was wondering if, in Luke 11, where the Lord teaches His disciples to pray, it is that He first reveals God to us, then He leads us so that we might ourselves, so to speak, be at home in the presence of God, so as to pray to Him.

F.E.R. Yes. He says, "how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him", and Christ goes up and gives the Spirit that they may pray.

G.F. What would you say of a person looking up subjects to address a meeting?

F.E.R. I never care to give the same address twice, and on the other hand, I would not care to come before an audience without feeling that I had got some word from the Lord for them. I do not think that otherwise I should do them justice. I can only bring before people what I have known. It is not so much what I have gathered from the Scriptures as what I know. I can say in all truth that I keep one thing before me; that is, in some sense to present God in Christ, and that can only be done in the measure in which you know God and Christ. You must speak from conscious enjoyment if you are to have much power.

THE PRINCIPLES OF THE WORLD TO COME

Address by F.E.R.

Romans 4:23 to 5: 21

There is a great deal contained in the passage I have read; more than is perhaps seen at first glance. It takes up many thoughts, and in what I understand to be the line of the teaching of the Spirit of God. I do not know anything of much more importance than to apprehend that the Spirit of God has a line of teaching, and is never deflected from that line. He keeps to it; we do not keep to it. We learn in a very disjointed and miscellaneous fashion. We get a little bit here and there in divine things, but that is not the line of the Spirit of God; and, sooner or later, we have to be brought into the line of the Spirit's teaching. I do not think you will ever be intelligent in divine things until you are directed into the line of the teaching of the Spirit; and that line is invariable, the Spirit of God never departs from it. The reason of that is that it is a line that is morally necessary. Everything with God, or of God, is moral, and there is a certain line which is morally necessary, and the Spirit of God is certain to carry you in mind along that line.

Now there are three or four things that I want to touch on, which follow each other successively, which you apprehend in the path of the Spirit. This is illustrated in the history of the children of Israel; God's dealings with them become a lesson book to us. It illustrates the truth, and we very often learn truth simply by means of illustration.

There are four great thoughts which come out in this chapter before us in their own proper order in the teaching of the Spirit.

The first is the kingdom of God, expressed in the Lord Jesus.

The second is the covenant, or teaching, for 'covenant' means teaching, practically. It is covenant on the part of God, but covenant on the part of God really means teaching to us.

The third, I take it, follows upon the covenant, and that is reconciliation.

And the final point that comes out is eternal life -- unto which grace reigns.

If you bear those four thoughts in mind, they indicate pretty clearly the line of the Spirit's teaching.

The establishment of the kingdom of God has everlasting life as the end in view.

Now I want to make one point plain before I pass on, viz., that almost every thought in the chapter has reference not to this world, but to the world to come. For faith the world to come is already in view. I understand how it is brought in. It is in the fact that Christ is seated at the right hand of God; and if faith apprehends the place which Christ has at the right hand of God, it gets an insight into the world to come.

The world to come is not brought into manifestation, but for faith that world has already come in, in the exaltation of Christ at the right hand of God. I will point out in a moment how the passage I read refers to the world to come; but I want you to bear in mind that when I speak about the world to come, I do not speak exclusively of the future; I quite admit that the present world is going on, and that the world to come has not yet come into display; but in the exaltation of the Lord Jesus to the right hand of God, the world to come has already come to pass for faith. It is the argument in Hebrews 2. He says that God has not put the world to come under angels; and the world to come "of which we speak" was the subject of his testimony. But we do not yet see all things put under Jesus; that is what properly marks the world

to come; but we see Jesus crowned with glory and honour.

Now I will tell you what marks the world to come. If you look at Psalm 8 for a moment; or perhaps I might refer to Psalm 2, to make it more complete. In verses 6 - 9 It says, "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel".

Now if you look at Psalm 8, we read, "O Lord (Jehovah) our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens".

Those passages give you a pretty clear conception of the world to come. The first thing that marks the world to come is, "Yet have I set my King upon my holy hill of Zion". Psalm 2 begins with, "Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against His anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us". And then it says, "Yet have I set my King upon my holy hill of Zion". That is, in spite of the raging of the powers of the world, God has accomplished His mind; He has set His King upon His holy hill of Zion. That is the first feature of the world to come.

There are two orders of things running through Scripture, one connected with Jerusalem, and the other with Babylon. When Jerusalem has its place, then Babylon is broken to pieces. On the other hand, when Babylon is in the ascendant, Jerusalem is trodden under foot. When Jerusalem became captive, Babylon was in the ascendant. In the time to come, when God

revives Jerusalem, then Babylon is broken to pieces. I dare say some would say, where is Babylon today? I have no doubt Babylon passed on in succession to Rome. First in the vision of Daniel is the Babylonian kingdom, then the Medo-Persian, then the Greek, and after that the Roman. The Roman exists today; the book of Revelation gives us much light on the book of Daniel. In the Revelation is brought out that in the time to come the Roman power will be revived; it will come to light under a new form, in a federation of the kingdoms of the Western world. Thus you get the last phase of Babylon -- and that will be broken to pieces at the coming of the Lord. That is, when God sees fit, in due time, to re-establish Jerusalem upon its own foundations, Babylon, which really means the glory of man, will be broken to pieces.

This is a great help to the understanding of Scripture. It has been said (pardon me for touching on prophecy for a moment) that Assyria is the enemy of Israel when Israel is owned, Babylon is the enemy of Israel when Israel is not owned; hence, when Babylon is in the ascendant, Jerusalem is trodden under foot, and when Jerusalem is in the ascendant, Babylon is trodden under foot.

Well now, what we find is that in spite of the raging of the kings, "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion", Jerusalem is restored, and this in spite of the contrariety and rebelliousness of man.

Then we find a further thought, "I will declare the decree". The King in Zion is declared to be the Son of God, and He asks of God, and God gives Him the heathen for His inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for His possession. "Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel".

If you look at Revelation 2:26, 27, you read, "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

and he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father". Now in that promise to the overcomer, it is certain that Christ takes up the language of Psalm 2, and gives to the overcomer the authority which has been given to Him; for in Psalm 2 is a similar expression, "He shall break them with a rod of iron", and Christ adds, "even as I received of my Father". The authority is given to Christ in Psalm 2, and He gives it to the overcomer in this verse in the Revelation. Further, in Revelation 19:11 - 15, it is said, "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him, ... he shall rule them with a rod of iron". There again is a quotation from Psalm 2, "He shall rule them with a rod of iron", that is, the nations. "And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS".

I have referred to those two passages because they make perfectly evident that what we get in Psalm 2 is prophetic, and refers to the kingdom; it does not refer to anything which has yet taken place, but to things which God will accomplish; that is, He will set His King upon His holy hill of Zion, and that King is declared to be the Son of God, who will rule the nations with a rod of iron and break them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

The application to the time to come is made evident by the passages I quoted from the Revelation.

Now in Psalm 8 we get first an allusion to man as God created him; then an allusion to "the son of man". Man and the son of man are distinct individualities. Man was what God created at the beginning; the "son of man" cannot be that, because he is the son of man. The expression 'son of man' is, beyond all doubt, a reference to Christ, and the passage is applied to Christ in Hebrews 2. The Spirit of God

by the apostle takes up that psalm in order to apply it to Christ. He says, "we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour".

Now that Psalm has been fulfilled partially, but not completely; Jesus has been made a little lower than the angels; that part has been accomplished, and He is "crowned with glory and honour"; but, in Hebrews 2 we read, "we see not yet all things put under him"; that has not yet come to pass. The psalm, like Psalm 2, looks on to the world to come. Therefore in regard to the world to come, you get three things. The first is, God's King set upon His holy hill of Zion; the second, He is declared to be the Son of God, who has the heathen for His inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for His possession, and who will rule the nations with a rod of iron, and break them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Then the third, that He is the "Son of man", crowned with glory and honour, set over all the works of God's hands, and all things put under His feet.

That is what I meant when I spoke about the world to come. I would like to make the point plain, because it is so important to apprehend the features of the world to come. We see Jerusalem revived and restored, God's King set upon His holy hill of Zion; Jerusalem become the centre and the light of the whole earth; the nations shepherded with a rod of iron, and their powers broken to pieces like a potter's vessel. That is what becomes of the nations, and, at the same time, the Son of man is crowned with glory and honour, and set over the works of God's hands. That is, instead of Satan having power and being the god and prince of this world, he is cast out, and all power and authority is centred in the Son of man, whom God has now set in heaven. Man, as God made him at first, was never set in heaven; he was set upon the earth; the Son of man has been set in heaven.

We see Jesus crowned with glory and honour; He is set in heaven, and Satan and his hosts are to be cast out.

The Lord foresaw this in Luke 10, when He said, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven". That is prophetic. In the Revelation a conflict takes place between Satan and his angels, and Michael and his angels. The result of the conflict is that the devil and his angels are cast out, and we have a significant statement in regard to them, that "neither was their place found any more in heaven".

But I do not want you to think, when I speak about the world to come, that I defer it to the future; I do not; I take it up in the light of the Hebrews, and there we are told that, though we do not yet see all things put under the Son of man, we see Jesus crowned with glory and honour, and set over all the works of God's hands.

Faith has ever anticipated the world to come; but, in times gone by, before Christ was exalted and set at the right hand of God, you could not see the world to come. But faith ever had reference to the world to come, though it could not be seen until Jesus was, in the value of redemption, crowned with glory and honour. Now the apostle says we speak about the world to come.

My point is this: that every thought in Romans 4 and 5 has reference to the world to come. Look at chapter 4: 13: "For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith"; and verses 16 and 17: "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace, to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even

God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were".

I put those two thoughts together; the promise that Abraham should be the heir of the world is connected in verse 17 with God, as "him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were".

Now, the time has not yet fully come for that; God has not come out yet as quickening the dead; quickening the dead does not mean simply to quicken souls; it means quickening of bodies, and this has not come to pass yet, save in Christ. The promise to Abraham is connected with God who quickeneth the dead and calleth those things which be not as though they were, and this has reference to the world to come.

To illustrate this for a moment: the kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar was not connected with God who quickens the dead; it was connected with the Most High God who rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to the basest of men. God can allow a scourge of mankind like Napoleon to be raised up, the basest of men; He rules in the kingdom of men; and He gives the kingdom to whom He will. But the promise of Abraham that he should be the heir of the world, is not connected with God as ruling in the kingdoms of men, but with God as the One who quickens the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. Thus it is the world to come of which Abraham was the heir; he was not heir of this world; he never got a foot of inheritance in this world; God brought him to the promised land, but he possessed nothing but a burying place in it. He embraced the promises, as we are told, but he never received them; and therefore the promise that he should be the heir of the world must refer to the world to come. When God acts as quickener of the dead, Abraham will get his inheritance; he is the heir of the world. Hence it is plain that the whole passage refers, not to this world,

but to the world of which Abraham is the heir, before God whom he believed, who quickens the dead and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

I pass on to chapter 5: 2: We "rejoice in hope of the glory of God". That is not connected with this world; there has been no display yet of God's glory; God has been glorified, but there has been no display of His glory yet. The glory of God will cover the earth; the display of His glory is connected with the world to come.

The character of the present world is Babylonish, and Babylon means the glory of man; it does not mean the glory of God at all. Everything in Babylon is for the glory of man. The world to come brings in the glory of God, and we rejoice in hope of that glory. Abraham rejoiced in hope of his inheritance; we rejoice in hope of the glory of God, when every promise of God will be brought to pass in Christ.

If you will look at verse 9, we have: "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life".

It is evident that the wrath of God is not yet; it refers to what will usher in the world to come. Then in the next verse you have, being reconciled to God by the death of His Son, we shall be saved by His life. There is a long gap, in a sense, between the death of Christ and the life of Christ. The world was cognisant of the death of Christ; He suffered here; they were witnesses of His death, but His life has not come out yet. We shall be saved by His life; when that is manifest, then we shall be saved, but it has reference to that which is yet to come to light.

Now, take up the last verse: "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our

Lord". What thoughtful person could say that grace reigns through righteousness unto eternal life now? I do not think it does yet; I do not think that grace is manifestly set in the ascendant. It is "unto eternal life"; this is a divine thought and has reference to the world to come. I do not doubt that these thoughts depend for full effect upon the coming of the Lord. When the time appointed arrives, and the Lord comes, effect will be given to every one of the thoughts that you get brought out in this chapter. Abraham will get his inheritance in the world to come, the glory of God will be displayed, and there will have been wrath; but, at the same time, the love and grace of God will be brought into this world, and then grace will reign through righteousness unto eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Divine thoughts that are presented to us in the word of God depend for their literal and actual fulfilment upon the coming of the Lord. Then God sets His king upon His holy hill of Zion; then He breaks the nations to pieces as a potter's vessel. It is then that all things are put under the feet of the Son of man, according to Psalm 8; everything is fulfilled then. Then the kingdom is Jehovah's. You get not only David's kingdom, but Jehovah's kingdom. The kingdom will be Jehovah's; we read in the Revelation, "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever".

I have brought out this to show that if you fail to read this chapter in the light of the world to come, you cannot get the force of these thoughts, or understand the application of the truth. The fact is that in christianity we anticipate the world to come. We see the world to come for one very simple reason, and that is that we see Jesus crowned with glory and honour. The condition of salvation is, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved". "If

thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation", Romans 10:9, 10. Salvation, at the present time, depends upon the confession of Christ as Lord. That is, in the kingdom of God the world to come is brought into the view of the christian, in the fact of Jesus being crowned with glory and honour. If I accept and apprehend the testimony of God, of Jesus being at the right hand of God on the ground of accomplished righteousness, crowned with glory and honour, it brings the world to come into view. The kingdom is not yet manifest, but the kingdom stands good to us in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ at the right hand of God.

Now I have gone so far in order to show how the truth of this chapter is connected with the world to come and the kingdom. I want now to take up those various thoughts in their application to us, in order to show the good of the kingdom.

What I understand by the kingdom is something very simple; that is, the moral sway of God, and the moral sway of God must of necessity be in grace. It is grace acting in power. That is, supposing you allow that man is a sinner and sinful, the moral sway of God must, of necessity, be in grace; hence it is the reign of grace, not yet manifested, but apprehended by faith.

If I look at the kingdom of God in the present day, as to what it has become in the hands of man, it is a mustard tree, something conspicuous in the world. I am an Englishman, and live in England, and if I look at the kingdom of God I have to look to the Queen, who is not only Queen of the country, but head of the church; the kingdom of God as man has made it, is represented to me in the Queen of

England, who professes to rule by the grace of God.

If I look at the kingdom of God from a moral point of view, it is represented to me in the Lord Jesus Christ at the right hand of God, who has introduced the sway of grace. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved". I will tell you why it is the sway of grace; it is because there is forgiveness of sins in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. What is connected with the Lord Jesus is that God has been pleased to remit His claim upon man; repentance and forgiveness of sins are preached in the name of the Lord Jesus. God has remitted His claim upon man that man may be delivered from the power of Satan. He has "delivered us from the authority of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love, in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins", Colossians 1:13, 14. You can readily understand that the moral sway of God must be in grace. There are only two ways in which God can approach man, man being sinful; one is in grace, and the other in judgment. If God came in the way of judgment, there would be no moral sway, that is certain; but if He comes in the way of the kingdom, which is moral sway, then He must come in grace, for there is no other principle on which the sway of God could be established in regard to man. Hence, the first principle of the kingdom is peace; the preaching of peace in the name of the Lord Jesus brings in the moral sway of God. "Being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ", and then we have the establishment of the rule of grace in regard to us, so that instead of being overcome by evil, we are able to overcome evil with good. That is the practical result to us of the throne of grace.

Now I want you to identify two things; that is, the Lord Jesus Christ at the right hand of God, and the throne of grace. I said a few moments ago that the

reign of grace is not yet publicly established; it will be established when the Lord comes. In the meantime the throne of grace is identified with the Lord Jesus Christ at the right hand of God, and the place of a christian down here is that God has nothing to say to him on the question of sins; His claim is remitted, that man may have salvation from the power of the enemy.

You have read the history of the children of Israel. You remember what took place on the night of the passover; the blood of the lamb was sprinkled on the lintel and door-posts, that they might be preserved from the destroying angel. It was the indication that God had remitted His claim upon the people, for practically the children of Israel were just as obnoxious to God as the Egyptians; but He remitted His claim upon the people in order that He might deliver them from the power of the Egyptian. And so it is in regard to the christian. God remits His claim in order to establish the sway of grace over man's soul, with the object that man may be delivered from the power of the enemy; that is, from the power of Satan. "Being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ".

You have now got the sway of God expressed in the Lord Jesus Christ. We have peace with God and rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.

I can bear testimony to the great gain of being under the sway of grace. It is far better than being under the sway of your own will; you have a throne of grace, where you can obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. If I am injured I do not injure again; if I am reviled I do not revile again. In my path I am under the power of grace and enabled to overcome evil with good, because my soul has been made acquainted with something of the goodness of God. He has freely remitted His claim that I may never come into judgment. Now I seek to walk in

grace down here, and to act toward others as God has acted toward me. In that sense the grace of God becomes effective in the christian; and, instead of his soul being in bondage to evil, to the world, and to Satan, God has delivered him out of the authority of darkness and translated him into the kingdom of the Son of His love.

I feel how poorly I can present these things, but a very great point will be gained if you apprehend something of the world to come, and of the fact that God has established the kingdom in the exaltation of the Lord Jesus Christ to the right hand of God. The moral basis of God's kingdom is righteousness; righteousness accomplished and declared in the death of Christ. The expression of God's kingdom is the Lord Jesus Christ at the right hand of God; the principle of the kingdom is peace; and the rule, or law of the kingdom, is grace; the soul of the christian is brought under the law of the kingdom. That is, that being sensible of the grace of God toward me, I am enabled to walk in grace down here; for the principle that governs my conduct is not how other people act towards me, but how God has acted towards me, and I walk in grace because I am sensible of the grace of God.

You get a beautiful expression in Titus of what I have been trying to bring before you; Titus 2:9 - 14. It exhorts servants, the word really is slaves, "to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; not purloining, but showing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things. For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us,

that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works". You have there the looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory; that is, of the world to come and the kingdom. In the meantime grace has its teaching in those who know it.

I wish all might get an apprehension of the kingdom having been established in the Lord Jesus Christ at the right hand of God. The effect of it upon us down here is that "we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God".

Now supposing that you have entered the kingdom; the next thing is this, God teaches; He teaches you what His disposition towards you is. God has, in grace, remitted His claim, and for the purpose that you might be delivered from the authority of darkness but He has something to teach you, and what He teaches are the terms of the covenant, and I understand the covenant to mean His disposition towards you. If I make a will I express in that will my disposition towards the persons to whom I dispose of my property. It is not simply that I have property to leave, and I leave that property, but the way in which I dispose of it indicates my disposition to those to whom I leave it, and that is the character of God's covenant. A covenant on the part of God indicates the disposition of God towards those who come under the covenant, and we are brought into the kingdom of God in accepting the testimony of the Lord Jesus, in order that we may learn the disposition of God towards us; that is what I understand to be the value and meaning to us of the covenant.

Now let me read Hebrews 8:6, "But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises".

Now that passage evidently refers literally to the future; to the covenant which God will consummate

with the house of Israel and the house of Judah; it makes clear what the disposition of God will be towards them; it is different from what His disposition was in the past. In the past He dealt with them as in the flesh; in the future He will deal with them in grace, and hence the change; the covenant indicates His disposition towards them, and when the covenant is established, then it is they will learn by divine teaching. God will write His laws in their hearts, and give them into their minds, and remember no more their sins, and every man will know God, from the least to the greatest, in His mercy. "I will be merciful to their unrighteousness". All that will be established hereafter in regard to the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's testimony as to them.

Now, it is not exactly that with us, and I want to indicate what it is to us. If you will look at a verse in Romans 5, you will find it says, "And hope maketh not ashamed, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us". ... Again, "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us".

Here we get an indication of God's covenant; that is, His disposition towards us. Only one thing God has to teach you, and that is His love. His love is shed abroad in the heart, and the commendation of that love is the death of Christ.

We do not get the law written in the heart, like Israel in the future, but we get something infinitely greater in the teaching of the Spirit, that sheds the love of God abroad in the heart.

Thus the simple principle in the new covenant in regard to us is the love of God shed abroad in the heart; and, on the other hand, sins and iniquities are remembered no more. By one offering the christian is perfected for ever. God has nothing to say to him in regard to sins, and is free to shed abroad in the

heart His love by the Holy Spirit. That is divine teaching; there is no more. The fact is, the more you become acquainted with the love of God, the more you will apprehend everything of God. People are slow to learn because they know so little of the love of God. In the light of love everything of God is simple and plain. You get the same thing in human things. A child that is conscious of the love of its parents has no very great difficulty in entering into their mind; and so a soul acquainted with the love of God becomes readily acquainted with the details of God's mind.

That is the point of divine teaching, the one great principle of God's disposition; it is the term of the new covenant; the love of God shed abroad in our hearts.

The covenant is the second point, it follows the kingdom. So it was with Israel in the past; God brought them into the wilderness; He Himself was their King; He reigned; then it was that He established His covenant with them. In the future, Christ will come; He will be hailed with joy in the very place where He was rejected, in Zion, they will say, "Hosanna, blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord", and then the new covenant will be established with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

In regard to us, what you argue from the love of God is this: God will do, for His own satisfaction, the very best that He can for us. It is a wonderful thing to be the subject of the love of God, for you may be sure, from the very fact of what God is, that He must necessarily do the best for us.

That is what love means; grace does not quite mean that. You cannot measure love, but, in a sense, you can measure grace. You cannot measure the love of God, and love will work for its own satisfaction, and will do for the subjects of it the best that love can do. Scripture itself asks that, if God freely delivered up His Son for us all, shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? If He has given already that great

proof of love, what can He withhold from the subjects of His love?

The third point is reconciliation, "By whom we have now received the reconciliation". I understand by reconciliation that in it everything is agreeable to God. That will come to pass throughout the universe; all will be made suitable to God, so that God may be complacent in everything which He has created. I understand that to be reconciliation. Now we have received the reconciliation, and I think I can make plain the application of reconciliation to us.

Believers are now before God, for His pleasure, in the life of Christ, apart from all that Adam left behind him in the world. Adam sinned; Adam died, but, when he himself passed off the scene, he left a good deal behind him; he left the old man, and sin and death in the world. Christ has come in to remove sin and death; He has removed the old man, and that is what Adam left behind him. Christ has come in to remove all from before God, so that we might be before God, no longer in the trail of Adam, but in the life of Christ. I do not say that you are practically apart from it yet, but in the eye of God you are, and before God in the life of Christ.

Look at verse 18: "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life". What a wonderful thought that is. You are in the life of Christ, and thus have justification of life; that is, in the eye of God you are apart from the trail of Adam. That is what reconciliation means to us.

We get a beautiful picture of reconciliation in the case of the prodigal son in Luke 15. He had been in the trail of Adam; had been under the power of sin; had wasted his substance in riotous living. He is brought back; he is reconciled; he is at the Father's table, apart from the trail of Adam, apart from sin and

death, in the best robe, with the ring on his hand and the shoes on his feet. We are in the presence of the Father, in the life of Christ; that we may be for the complacency and satisfaction of God. That is what I understand by reconciliation. The sum up of the matter is this: "the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: that as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord".

Thus we have seen that God has set up a kingdom, has established the reign of grace, not yet manifested, but established in the Lord Jesus Christ at the right hand of God, and it has this in view, that grace might reign through righteousness; grace being the rule of the kingdom, it rules through righteousness. That is, as regards us, through self-judgment, and it brings you to the end, not hereafter, but now, "unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord".

Sin and death appear to be the rule in the world; sin has reigned by death, and in a certain sense still does; but, in the eye of God, sin and death have gone by the cross. Christ was made sin to put sin away; He appeared once in the end of the world to put away sin; and, if sin has not been put away from before God, it never will be; but Christ has appeared to do it, and He has done it. More than that, He has annulled death; He is not going to annul it. He has annulled death, and brought life and incorruptibility to light by the gospel. So there is such a thing as the believer being apart from all the consequences of Adam's sin, as before God; apart from sin and death in the life of Christ. That is where the christian is, and in that sense has received the reconciliation for God's pleasure, and God has complacency in the christian, as reconciled, so "we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement [reconciliation]". What a blessed privilege

to be before God, apart from the fruits of Adam's sin, in the life of the last Adam; that is, the One who appeared once in the end of the world to put away all that came in by the Adam that sinned. Sin and death are no longer the rule as before God; sin has been removed by sacrifice, death has been annulled by Christ going into it. Christ has risen; He is the last Adam, and christians are before God in the life of the last Adam, for His entire and perfect complacency.

Now in the summing up, it says that "as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord". God has established the kingdom, not simply to salvation, but unto eternal life. That is God's end and purpose. God had in view, despite death, that grace might reign through righteousness unto eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

It is a great chapter, and I do not doubt at all that what I have indicated to you is the line of divine teaching.

God is working out His ways, and the great end before Him is the disentanglement of good and evil, so that each will find its own place. That will be the final result. Good will find its place with God; and all evil, I do not say will be done away, but will find its place with the source of it -- Satan. It is a most wonderful thing to think that we can be before God for His pleasure, apart, in His eye, from sin and death, and in the life of the One who came here to put aside all the consequences of Adam's transgression. Adam passed off the scene and left the terrible results of his transgression behind him. Christ came that He might remove them all, that we might be before God in His life.

May God give us to understand these things in His great grace, to understand His way and the real line of the Spirit's teaching.

REDEMPTION AND DIVINE TEACHING

Reading, Revised by F.E.R.

Exodus 15:1 - 27

F.E.R. I think we get here figuratively an idea of the kingdom. It is based on redemption and the destruction of the enemy. We have, too, the principles of the kingdom, that is, peace and grace and the hope of glory. They all come out in this chapter. The doctrine is found in Romans 4 and 5, but the type here. All was based on what had taken place in Egypt, that is, the declaration of God's righteousness. The blood witnessed this on the part of God. The enemy had been destroyed in the Red Sea; salvation had come to pass. In Egypt there was not salvation, but shelter; but through the Red Sea there was salvation, and the effect is peace; grace comes in, and glory is in view. So that you have the kingdom and the effects of the kingdom. All is foreshadowed here, these things were written for our learning upon whom the ends of the world are come.

G.R. And all come out consequent on the victory.

F.E.R. It was the grace of God that brought them salvation; grace was on the part of God witnessed in the blood as well as righteousness. Salvation was when the power of the enemy was destroyed. Consequent on that is peace; the Israelites no longer feared the enemy, the Egyptian was destroyed. And further, we have the thought of the standing in grace, and God setting up His habitation, and finally the hope of glory. That is the full accomplishment of God's counsel, "Thou shalt bring them in".

J.S.A. The expression, "The Lord shall reign for ever and ever". There you get the kingdom.

F.E.R. You get a similar expression frequently in the Psalms, "Jehovah reigneth". He reigns when the

enemy is destroyed. It was the reign of grace really, for the people were for the moment under grace; they did not come under law until mount Sinai; every need was met for them in grace.

G.R. Would you say that Romans 3 and 4 answer to Exodus 12 and this?

F.E.R. I think the blood is typical of Romans 3, the declaration of the righteousness of God. God hath set forth Christ Jesus a mercy-seat "through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness".

G.R. So that on that ground He can remit our sins.

F.E.R. He vindicates Himself in our eyes, both in respect of His ways in the past and in the present. The fact is that man is justified in seeing that God is justified, i.e., in apprehending God's righteousness.

A.E.H. What do you mean by the kingdom?

F.E.R. Reigning; "The Lord shall reign", so again in Romans, "as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign", etc. The kingdom is spoken of as the "kingdom of God" and again as the "kingdom of the Son of his love".

L.W.B. Is there a difference between the "kingdom of God" and the "kingdom of heaven"?

F.E.R. One is one aspect of the kingdom, and the other another. The thought of the kingdom of heaven is analogous to what God did at the beginning; He set a great light in the heavens to rule the day. The kingdom of God, on the other hand, is connected with the presence of the Holy Spirit down here; that is, there is power upon earth commensurate with the authority in heaven. Christ is the authority. If you want light and direction in regard to the pathway here, go to Christ. In all connected with service you go naturally to the Lord, because He is the great Light in heaven, but the Holy Spirit maintains the sway of God down here, so that, "the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit".

Ques. Would the kingdom of God be a more inclusive term?

F.E.R. I do not think so. One expression gives the power here, and the other the authority that resides in heaven.

J.S.A. The kingdom was really set up when Christ took His place on high.

F.E.R. Yes, the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of God was present when Christ was on earth, for there was a power here superior to the power that oppressed man, just as we get in the case of Israel. There was a power superior to the Egyptian, which could destroy the Egyptian in the Red Sea. Hence the Lord says, "The kingdom of God is come upon you", it was there in His Person. But what has come to pass now is that Christ is set in heaven at the right hand of God with authority; He is Lord there, and the Holy Spirit is come to establish the kingdom upon earth.

J.S.A. And acknowledgement of the Lord really brings a soul into the kingdom.

F.E.R. Yes, the reception of the Holy Spirit and the confession of Christ as Lord.

W.S.E. What has baptism to do with bringing into the kingdom?

F.E.R. Nothing. The kingdom is the result of seed-sowing. Baptism brings into the house, into christian fellowship.

J.B. You mean we come into the kingdom by owning Christ's authority.

F.E.R. You receive the testimony of the kingdom; it is the effect of seed-sowing.

J.B. The thief owned Christ as Lord.

F.E.R. But you could hardly say that he came into the kingdom, for the kingdom was hardly set up. The case of the Philippian jailer will illustrate the point; the apostle said to him, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house".

And afterwards he preached the word of the Lord to them, and the jailer received the word and came into the kingdom.

G.R. Would you not say that the thief was an illustration of salvation by owning the Lord?

F.E.R. I suppose so; my only difficulty was that Christ was at that time suffering; He was not in honour and glory, and the kingdom was not set up actually, though the thief saw underneath, and confessed Him as Lord. Spiritually the thief was in advance of anybody else at that moment.

G.R. I have connected it with Romans 10, "if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved". The thief confessed Him as Lord, and then spoke of the kingdom, which really involved resurrection.

F.E.R. I have no doubt that the thief's aspirations went out to that, but he could not believe in his heart that God had raised Christ from the dead.

G.R. Did not the thief get salvation?

F.E.R. I think he got salvation by his death; the death of Christ took him to paradise, but his own death was salvation. He was never baptised to the death of Christ, but he got salvation by death; that is, through it he got complete emancipation from the power of evil. We get salvation by death in a sense, but by the death of Christ we get heaven.

J.S.A. The word of the Lord which was preached to the jailer was not exactly the scripture but the testimony of the Lord.

F.E.R. Yes, the apostle makes the statement, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house", but afterwards he preached to them the testimony of the Lord.

J.S.A. It is not texts of scripture but the testimony of the Lord.

F.E.R. I think a great point in connection with the

kingdom is to get away from dispensational ideas. We have been greatly hindered by taking things up dispensationally.

Ques. Why does Matthew make a distinction in speaking of the kingdom of heaven?

F.E.R. Matthew speaks of what God has set in heaven; Luke, on the other hand, takes the other side and leads to what God would establish down here, and so to the kingdom of God.

G.R. "Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God". Is not the Lord's answer, 'You may do that now if you will'?

F.E.R. Yes. The present time is peculiar, for, as to the outward public dealings of God, it is really still the dispensation of law and prophets.

G.R. That is, in connection with the world as such.

F.E.R. Yes. I think that will not come to an end until the Lord comes and the kingdom is manifested.

A.G. Would you not say the purpose of God was apart from dispensations?

F.E.R. The church does not come in the course of dispensations. The kingdom has come in mystery, not publicly in the ways of God. So, too, the body of Christ is a mystery.

J.S.A. I suppose the children of Israel at this point are really brought to God, and now there is nothing for them except God.

F.E.R. Nothing. They had peace with God, for God had destroyed their enemy. They knew God as a Saviour God, and they certainly stood in grace for the moment, and more than that they had glory in view. That was their position typically.

C.A.H. Is that what characterises the kingdom?

F.E.R. Yes. "Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ". "Through our Lord Jesus Christ" brings in the thought of the kingdom. Then the apostle goes

on to say, "and rejoice in hope of the glory of God".

W.H.F. You say salvation is connected with the lordship of Christ.

F.E.R. Yes. How do you get free from the devil's power, from Satan and his wiles? It is by the confession of Christ as Lord, "if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus ... thou shalt be saved". If you recognise Satan and his activities and authority, you are free from it in the confession of Christ as Lord. Supposing a man has been under the power of spiritism, that man gets salvation by the confession of Christ as Lord.

J.S. Would you say that is turning away from one master to another?

F.E.R. Yes, that is what God has effected for you, "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son, in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins". He has delivered you from the power of Pharaoh and translated you into the kingdom of the Son of His love. Christ has led captivity captive, and given gifts to men. You confess Christ as Lord and receive gift from Him.

A.G. You say that is the power that confronts Satan.

F.E.R. Christ has annulled Satan.

G.R. Would you not say that 'kingdom' expresses two ideas, first subjection, and then, following that, protection?

F.E.R. One great idea in government is security.

G.R. You only get the benefit of that by being subject, and there comes the fact of the kingdom being established in our souls -- the authority of God.

F.E.R. But it is the authority of God in grace; it is God coming in to gain the allegiance of man's heart, and man finds that in allegiance to God he has a place of security.

J.S. You were speaking of being translated into the

kingdom of the Son of His love, and that that is what God does, but Matthew's gospel shows the kingdom of heaven as a world power, which could not be of God.

F.E.R. Yes, but that cannot affect the moral character of the kingdom. Man takes up the kingdom in that sense as a dispensation, that is, it loses the character of mystery to him, and then he finds it a useful thing here, and the first three parables in Matthew 13 show what the kingdom would become in the hand of man; but that does not affect the moral force of the kingdom, which is brought out in Matthew 18; there it says, "Except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven".

J.S.A. So that if we are in the kingdom we should act as that chapter indicates, that is, in grace.

Ques. Would you say that Matthew 13 is the outward manifestation?

F.E.R. I think so in the first three parables, but you get the three remaining parables, which show what the kingdom is in the mind of God, the treasure, the pearl, and the net cast into the sea.

A.G. What do you mean by the kingdom in the hands of man?

F.E.R. Man has taken up the kingdom in a dispensational way, has established government in the world on the authority of heaven; for instance, in our country the Queen takes the place of being head of the church, and reigns, 'By the grace of God'; the Emperor of Germany does the same, 'By the grace of God', and in principle authority in these countries has been established on the ground of the word of God.

G.R. Even in this country you will find on the silver dollar, 'In God we trust', and the Congress is opened by the chaplain.

F.E.R. I do not think there is much of the kingdom

of heaven in this country; there is much more of the authority of man; the democratic principle. It is not developed so much on our side, although it is fast coming in there. The rule of the people is a dangerous principle, though there may be something to be said for it, in a way, as things are.

G.R. But amidst all the confusion and corruption God's kingdom remains, and we have the benefit of it.

F.E.R. Matthew 18 stands exactly where it did at the beginning, nothing is changed. You have to look at the kingdom morally; if you look at it dispensationally all is confusion. I believe brethren have made a mistake in looking at things too dispensationally. In a day of confusion you cannot apprehend anything aright except as you apprehend it morally. The first principle of the kingdom is peace, the law of the kingdom is grace.

J.S.A. And the moral foundation is righteousness.

F.E.R. Yes; and the hope is glory.

G.D. So it is really grace that subdues.

F.E.R. Grace helps you along. You have in the Lord an apprehension of grace enthroned. The great point to us is that, instead of being overcome of evil, we may overcome evil.

J.S.A. The object of it is to clear everything away, and to bring in a power that can lead on to the purpose of God.

F.E.R. And all the time you feel that you are under the rule of grace; you can always obtain mercy and grace. "Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed; thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation". You have the Spirit of God here and the kingdom made good in His power; you have continual support and help so that, being left in a scene of evil, you may not be overcome by it. You can overcome in the power of the Holy Spirit and confessing Christ as Lord.

J.S. Would you say the law of the kingdom acts in this way, it is the grace of God toward us, but not only that, but toward one another?

F.E.R. If we do not act toward one another as God has acted toward us, we shall come under discipline. You get that in the parable in Matthew 18, "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not everyone his brother their trespasses". To fail to act to others as God has acted to us is not righteousness.

G.R. And that is really what the Lord says, "except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees". It is not a question of quantity, but quality.

F.E.R. Exactly so. It has been said, the more sense you have of the righteousness of God, the higher will be your righteousness.

A.E.H. Is this the kingdom that is to be set up upon earth?

F.E.R. It remains for the kingdom to be manifested. Two things have to take place; it has to be purged, and it will be manifested.

J.S.A. It exists now in mystery.

F.E.R. You can understand for the moment the kingdom is hid at the right hand of God. It has been said to the Son, "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool .... Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power". In Matthew 13 we get the angels "shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity".

J.S. Is there any difference between the Father's kingdom and the kingdom of the Son?

F.E.R. They refer to the same point. In the prophets you get the idea of David's kingdom, but David's kingdom is really Jehovah's kingdom, and this mystery is solved by the fact of Christ being son of David. David's son is David's Lord. He is the root and offspring of David.

J.S. As to point of time, you put the purging at the beginning of the millennium.

F.E.R. I think the angels come forth and purge the kingdom in view of the kingdom being manifested. I suppose it refers to the purging of christendom, which has been so far the scene of the kingdom, and it takes place between the rapture and the coming of the Lord.

J.B. He has received to Himself a kingdom and returns.

F.E.R. He has received the kingdom, "We see Jesus crowned with glory and honour". He has received the kingdom, but has not yet returned.

W.H.F. Is the kingdom the same in extent with christendom?

F.E.R. I think so, at the present time. It is difficult to talk about the limits of the kingdom, for if you do you are compelled to look at it as to what man has made it. If you want to see the limits of the kingdom, you have to see really how far things are professedly established on the authority of the word of God.

I think the office of high priest is in connection with the kingdom. Christ reigns in the future as a priest upon His throne, and at the present time priesthood is in connection with the kingdom. The counsel of peace is between the two, that is, the King and the Priest. Christ combines the two offices in the millennium. We have not only the authority of Christ as Lord, but He is the High Priest; having then "a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession; for we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin". Then it adds, "Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need". The sympathy and succour

of the priest is in connection with the kingdom. He is good for those in the kingdom, and the effect is you come boldly to the throne of grace; we have Christ as Lord on God's side, but as Priest on our side.

G.R. That is, He is Jehovah's King to carry out the blessing of Jehovah's people.

F.E.R. Quite so, but the One who is Jehovah's King is Priest for us. It is certain that priesthood is a great principle of the kingdom in the future. Moses and Aaron came out to bless the people. With David the priest was associated with the king. Zadok was priest and David was king. We get the same principle in Psalm 110.

J.S. Do you look at sin as a master?

F.E.R. It has been a master; you have been delivered from it, and you are in danger of it, and now provision is made that you shall not be overcome by it. You are not under law, but under grace. I think priesthood comes in that connection. Christ makes intercession, and you obtain mercy and find grace in time of need.

A.G. That would be the Melchisedec order of priest.

F.E.R. Yes. I believe it to be a point of the last moment in connection with what God has established for Himself. The kingdom is what God has established for His own glory.

J.S.A. But in a certain sense in view of man.

F.E.R. Yes, because all is in relation to man, but the kingdom is for God Himself, that man may come under the sway of grace and thus be recovered and brought back to God, and made conscious of the support of God.

G.R. Do you not get that in Psalm 2? "Yet have I set my King". He is not King by popular election, but He is Jehovah's King for Jehovah's pleasure.

F.E.R. So here, Jehovah reigns for the protection

of His people, "thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation".

J.B. "My delights were with the sons of men".

F.E.R. I like to get away from man, and seek to enter by grace into divine thoughts and divine ends, and to see how everything of God is outside of the course of this world.

J.S.A. There is a beautiful sense of the grace of God in this verse, "He went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil".

F.E.R. Nothing is more beautiful than that. Now Christ has gone up on high; Satan's power is annulled; the kingdom is established and made good in the power of the Holy Spirit.

J.S.A. And we taste the powers of the world to come.

F.E.R. Yes, we have peace and grace, and glory is in view. That is, we hope for that time when God will come forth publicly to manifest all that is of Himself.

A.G. I suppose each one of these three depends on the other.

F.E.R. Yes. You get a beautiful statement of the truth in Titus, "the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world, looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ". That is the anticipation and hope of the christian.

A.G. Then it is you enjoy eternal life.

F.E.R. I think the kingdom is the first step; the covenant is the next, and reconciliation follows on that, and reconciliation leads to eternal life. That is the order of Romans 5.

J.S.A. But we must have some sense of the kingdom of God first.

F.E.R. The next thing is, "thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation". The

house is here, and in christianity this is consequent on the Spirit having come. The Spirit of God is not incarnate as Christ was, but dwells in saints, and hence the habitation is formed, and when you get that you get the covenant, for in the habitation of God the Spirit is teaching, and that is the covenant.

W.E. Is that what you get in Romans 5, the love of God shed abroad in our hearts?

F.E.R. Yes, but you could not understand that unless you knew the kingdom. The Spirit has come to take up His abode here, and at the same time to be the teacher of God's people.

W.E. You are ready for teaching after this?

F.E.R. Yes, after you recognise the presence of the Spirit. I think the great thing then is to know what is in the heart of God toward you.

J.S.A. And to get hold of the fact that the teaching is made good only in the power of the Spirit.

F.E.R. It was the same order in the case of the children of Israel. They had, after redemption, to come to mount Sinai to learn the covenant. Of course in their case it was law.

Ques. What is the aspect of our relation when Peter speaks of us as a kingdom of priests unto God?

F.E.R. I think it is like Israel, before God and in contrast to other nations, they were a kingdom of priests.

J.S.A. Do you not think the centurion had some sense of that when he went to the Jews and asked them to go to Christ for him?

F.E.R. Yes. He recognised that Israel had a priestly place as a nation. You see that often recognised as regards christians. When a man is in trouble he will go to a christian, because he feels the latter has access to God.

W.E. It will be the same in the millennium.

F.E.R. It will be fulfilled as to Israel then; they will be a kingdom of priests and have a special place

of privilege. Divine teaching is a wonderful thing. It is not until God has got you at rest in the kingdom that you can be a subject of divine teaching. People like Martha, restless and fussy, do not come much under divine teaching. The Lord is ready enough to teach, but they are indisposed to be taught because they think too much about others and their own service. We have, like Mary, to sit at the feet of Jesus hearing His word if we are to be taught.

A.G. Is that why we are so slow to learn?

F.E.R. Very few are ready for divine teaching. They are not quiet in spirit and free enough from things here.

J.S. They desire to do something.

F.E.R. Yes, and often they have an idea that if they acquire something more in the world it will enable them the better to serve God. There are few delusions greater than that. To become more prosperous is a dangerous thing, for the more prosperous you become the more power the things in which you prosper get with you. It has been said that adversity brings out a man's strength, and prosperity his weakness. It requires a strong man to stand prosperity; sometimes the devil comes in to give a man prosperity because he thinks a man will not stand in it. God gives food and raiment and mercies to His people, but I think the best thing is to be content with present circumstances. If you are pursuing anything in the world, you are afraid of the world. If you have expectation from man, you are afraid of man. The point is, "The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me". God has said, "I will never leave thee nor forsake thee". These are the lessons of the kingdom.

W.E. One thing is needful all the way along.

F.E.R. You refer to what the Lord said to Martha.

J.S. Would you say the one thing was affection?

F.E.R. I think it is one thing in contrast to many,

to the mind being distracted with half a dozen things.

J.S.A. A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways.

F.E.R. That scene of Martha and Mary comes just after the parable of the good Samaritan, after there has been experience of the grace of Christ as Neighbour. We are brought into the kingdom and taken care of down here, and then it is that Christ becomes Teacher, and that, like Mary, we sit at His feet. When you have experienced the neighbour you are ready for the teacher. The beginning of the next chapter is the Lord teaching the disciples to pray.

J.S. Would it be strictly right to say the Lord wants the hearts of His people rather than their service?

F.E.R. God has set Himself to gain the heart of man, and I do not believe that His end is reached until He has gained it. Hence you find a good deal of stress laid on loving God, for then God has gained your heart. "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him". Now, having gained your heart, He will load you with benefits.

J.S. And the heart of man would seek to get these benefits by his service.

F.E.R. Yes. But the Lord effects everything Himself. He is competent to carry out His own work. I do not think He is dependent on any of us. If a man has a gift from the Lord, you may be certain that man will have no quietness until he exercises his gift.

J.B. On the other hand there ought to be no laziness.

F.E.R. It is quietness of spirit that is wanted to enable us to learn of Christ.

THE SANCTUARY

Reading, Revised by F.E.R.

Exodus 25:1 - 22

G.R. I suppose you would say that the thought in Exodus 15 is that God has wrought deliverance for His people, and that is in view of something.

F.E.R. What comes out in Exodus 15 is that deliverance has been effected from the enemy, and that Jehovah reigns. You have in principle the kingdom. The people are delivered out of the authority of darkness and translated into the kingdom of God. Deliverance is one side, but the other is the important side, that is, they are brought into the kingdom.

G.R. Does the history of David illustrate that? God brought him to the throne and he wrought deliverance for His people, and just as the authority of David was owned the blessings of the kingdom were enjoyed.

F.E.R. The kingdom of God really means that God has come in to bring back man to Himself. Man has departed from God and set up his own will, and in the kingdom God has come in to recover man; that is, to establish His sway over man in grace.

J.S.A. In this chapter there seem to be two points, the first, God come in to deliver His people, and the second, that He has appointed a place in which He will make known His mind.

F.E.R. Yes, you come to the sanctuary.

J.S.A. How is it that the covenant comes first?

F.E.R. Because people have to learn before they come to the sanctuary. We are on the experimental side. Saints must know what the disposition of God is toward them before they can worship. They must enjoy the Lord's supper before they really come to

the assembly. To understand the terms on which they are with God is the first thing. You get that in chapter 20, and in the succeeding chapters you get the covenant; chapter 25 brings you to the sanctuary.

A.G. Is the assembly the sanctuary?

F.E.R. We have to come by purgation to the sanctuary. You get in chapter 24, verses 3 to 8, the covenant and the blood of the covenant; he took the blood and sprinkled it on the people and said, "Behold the blood of the covenant". The people were purged in that sense and had the covenant, and then in the succeeding chapter we have directions as to the sanctuary. Sanctuary brings in the idea of approach to God, that is, God is dwelling among men and in consequence of that men approach God according to the appointed order.

J.S.A. But before they can really approach God they must know the terms on which they are with God.

W.E. What is the difference between the old covenant and the new?

F.E.R. You get the old covenant here. The old covenant was connected with the blood of bulls, etc.; the people were purged figuratively. The covenant included all that God made known to them. The covenant, the terms on which He would be with them, begins with chapter 20; that is, the ten commandments, and then the succeeding chapters open up the statutes and judgments, and the people accepted the terms, "All that the Lord hath said will we do and be obedient". Then they are purged, and in the next chapter you get the sanctuary. I think that is the way in which things are presented.

G.R. The old covenant is what man should be for God.

F.E.R. Yes, but it brings out a good deal of what God would be for them, but conditionally on their obedience. The ten commandments laid down what the people should be for God, but the succeeding

chapters show also what God would be for them. This was for them all a question of teaching. Moses was to teach the people statutes and judgments. The new covenant and the old largely meant divine teaching.

A.E.H. What connection had this with the kingdom?

F.E.R. The covenant follows the kingdom; until God has established His sway in man's soul you cannot have any covenant. God cannot really make terms with an unconverted man. You are brought into the kingdom in order that God may teach you.

J.B. Did Israel ever enter into the blessing of God being with them in this way?

F.E.R. Very poorly. They did not make a good beginning; they made a golden calf.

A.G. Could a person enter into the moral sway of the kingdom not having life?

F.E.R. John 3 shows that a man must be born again or he cannot see the kingdom; but at the same time a man receives the kingdom, "Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God". The kingdom comes to a man in the way of testimony; the preaching is of the kingdom. God has set up a kingdom and the testimony of it is sent into the world. I think a man receives the kingdom in receiving the testimony of God's grace.

A.G. Outside of that he cannot come into the kingdom.

F.E.R. It is plain, that if a man is to come under the moral sway of God it must be in the way of grace, else there could be nothing for him but judgment. There was no way possible for God to come out to man except in grace or judgment, and He came out in grace instead of judgment. The object and end of it is that man may come under the moral sway of God in grace, that grace might reign through righteousness unto eternal life. The moment man is brought under

the moral sway of God he comes under divine teaching.

A.E.H. The terms on which God was with Israel are not the same as those on which He is with us.

F.E.R. No. The terms on which He was with them are laid down in these two or three chapters before the purging, then the purging comes in.

J.S. These terms proposed a certain responsibility to man.

F.E.R. The people accepted them, and the covenant depended to a large extent on the obedience of man.

J.S. Would you say there was a certain responsibility attaching to man at the present moment?

F.E.R. That is not the character of the covenant now. The covenant in our case is unconditional. In their case the covenant contemplated two parties, but in the new covenant the Mediator of the covenant has removed one of the parties, so that God is one, and nothing can alter His disposition toward us.

J.S.A. You mean that the old man has been removed.

F.E.R. Yes. Now Jesus is the Mediator of the new covenant, and He has removed one man.

A.E.H. Is that the meaning of Galatians 3:20?

F.E.R. Yes. "God is one".

J.S. We could easily understand how this is a better covenant.

J.S.A. Then you were pointing out the other day the difference as to writing. In this case it was outside on stone tables, and now it is inside on fleshy tables of the heart.

F.E.R. Two points are taken up in 2 Corinthians 3; first writing, and then covenant. The apostle takes up writing in connection with the thought of a letter of commendation, then he takes up the second point and that is covenant. God began in Israel with writing on tables of stone, for the writing of God precedes God dwelling. Until God writes He does not dwell.

Then connected with the writing you get the covenant, then the sanctuary, and we have to apprehend things in that order. That is the line of the Spirit's teaching. You never get at things really except in God's way.

J.A. You do not begin with eternal life.

F.E.R. You end with it, at least if Scripture is right, "The end everlasting life".

W.E. And that scripture does not mean then that you die?

F.E.R. I do not think so. A man gets to eternal life on earth. He may not get it until resurrection, but get it he will. Every believer will certainly get it.

W.H.F. Before he leaves earth?

F.E.R. Yes.

W.H.F. You do not enter into it now, but in resurrection?

F.E.R. You will be put into it then; you will not enter into it.

A.E.H. What is this writing you speak of?

F.E.R. In the case of Israel God wrote on tables of stone. In the case of christians God writes on the heart, but He will write.

A.E.H. Is that before the covenant is established?

F.E.R. Yes, in a sense. The apostle was assured as to the Corinthians that there was a writing of the Spirit in them. He says, "Ye are our letter". They were "the epistle of Christ ... written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart". The writing of God was there, but the point before us is that the writing on tables of stone gives you the idea of writing preceding God's dwelling.

A.E.H. What He wrote was the terms of the covenant?

F.E.R. No, the ten commandments; that is not entirely the terms of the covenant; these come out afterwards. The ten commandments are the writing

of God, and the tables were eventually in the ark of the testimony.

A.E.H. What does that correspond with in christianity?

F.E.R. Christ. The ten commandments were the transcript of God's mind as to man here.

J.B. Was the transcript as to what man ought to be?

F.E.R. Yes, it was so then, but God has everything now in Christ, and "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth". And the Spirit in us means Christ in us.

A.G. Was it the presenting of it to the people that was the covenant?

F.E.R. No. What succeeds the ten commandments formed part of the covenant, then we have the blood of the covenant.

A.E.H. We ought to read over the intervening chapters if we want to understand the terms of the covenant.

F.E.R. Yes, but we are only concerned now to see the principle.

J.S.A. It is interesting that in the coming day with Israel God will write His laws on their heart, so there is writing then.

J.B. Was not the covenant what they agreed to be for God? It was not what He would be to them.

F.E.R. There were two parties to the covenant, and, on the condition of their obedience, God made known what He would be to them.

J.S.A. I suppose part of the covenant is contained in this, "I send an Angel before thee to keep thee in the way".

F.E.R. Yes, that is part of the covenant. The intervening chapters are Jehovah's judgments; He gave them His judgments.

A.E.H. What are the terms of the covenant of God with us?

F.E.R. They are uncommonly simple, the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit given to us. I think that is the only condition of the covenant. Love makes no terms, and if it is the love of God you do not want anything more; you may be well content to leave yourself in the hands of God.

A.E.H. The difficulty with me is to see how it is a covenant.

F.E.R. It is God's disposition toward you, and that is love. That is His covenant.

J.S.A. I think what our brother says discloses what is in many minds, that somehow at the bottom we think we have to do something, we do not understand what it is to be absolutely in grace.

F.E.R. The figure of a will is employed as to covenant in the Hebrews, and there are not two parties in a will. If I make a will it is my mind, I make a disposition of my property, but then the disposition I make shows my mind to those who come under my will. If I were to leave all my property to my children, it would show what my disposition was toward them.

G.R. What is written in the heart of a christian is Christ, and that means that Christ becomes the object of our affections. We prefer Christ to ourselves.

F.E.R. You get a sense of the love of God, and that is divine teaching. Christ is the expression of that love. Hence, in the Lord's supper, "This cup is the new testament in my blood which is shed for you".

A.E.H. Is it spoken of in Hebrews where it says He will remember their sins and iniquities no more?

F.E.R. That is part of it; it is the love of God and no sins; He does not remember them any more; He has done with them, and, on the other hand, the Spirit makes known what is God's disposition toward us.

G.R. That is what we have come to here in Exodus. The covenant is teaching what God would be for them.

F.E.R. And it is the same with us. People will not get further on if they do not come there.

J.S.A. And that is what you mean, that we only get into the assembly through the Supper. This brings out what God is for us.

F.E.R. I think Christ's body given for them indicated one thing and His blood shed for them indicated another, as to the meaning of it.

A.E.H. What does each one indicate?

F.E.R. His body indicates that He has removed your old man from before God. You get such an expression as this, "ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ". But His blood indicates the bringing in of the mind of God; it is the new covenant in His blood. It is the declaration of God's mind toward you.

A.E.H. And is the blood of the covenant spoken of in the Old Testament corresponding to that?

F.E.R. No, it comes in there more in the light of purgation. In the Lord's supper you do not get the efficacy of the blood, but the teaching of the blood. You may look at the death of Christ in the efficacy of it, but also in the witness of it.

A.E.H. I think many of us have been occupied with the efficacy of the blood.

F.E.R. In that case you are defective.

J.S.A. It is a most important distinction. By witness you mean a witness to the love of God.

G.R. So that if we do not get beyond the efficacy God is still before us as a judge; but if we get the witness we are beyond that thought by what God is for us.

F.E.R. Christ refreshes us in the Supper by bringing again before us the expression of divine love. It is also a test as to whether you are in the fellowship of Christ's death. You are glad enough of it, and answer to it readily.

G.R. If God is before you as a judge there is no worship, but if we get beyond that and see what His heart is toward us we worship.

F.E.R. If you remember, in Romans 5, "the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us". And then it goes on to say, "God commendeth his love toward us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us". That is, the death of Christ is the witness and expression of the love of God.

J.F. I suppose when dwelling on the efficacy we are dwelling on the good of it to ourselves?

F.E.R. If people are on that line it only shows they do not yet know God. People who know God do not want assurance.

A.E.H. I know this thought has been before me in the Lord's supper, that we are there free from sin, but it was a reminder to us of the work of Christ on the cross.

F.E.R. I think the Lord brought His death before the disciples to show them how it could be that He would still be with them; He could no longer be with them after the flesh, but in the Spirit He shows them how He could still be with them. I think if you accept two things -- that is, on the one side, your removal, and, on the other, your heart established in the love of God -- you realise the presence of Christ, who has effected this by His death. You are in a new scene where man has no place, and God is everything. That is what you come to in the sanctuary.

J.S.A. Does not that verse in John 15 help, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends"? It is not as in Romans 5, dying for enemies; it is the love that led Him to give His life for friends.

F.E.R. Yes.

W.E. Would you say it is more the Person than what is done in the Supper that should be before us?

F.E.R. Certainly. If what is done is before you, it is not Himself. His death comes before you simply as an expression of Himself. You call Him to mind, not some fact about Him.

W.H.F. Do you not get that distinction in the celebration of the passover in Egypt and in Canaan? In Egypt it was appropriation, and in Canaan it was appreciation.

F.E.R. Yes.

J.B. The difficulty with me was that the Lord said, "this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins".

F.E.R. That only makes the love more emphatic; the love has come out to remove everything which was inconsistent with Himself, so that there might be nothing to interfere with the love.

J.B. There is often a sense of gratitude that our sins have been removed by the blood.

F.E.R. Well, but then I think you get in that way to what is individual.

J.B. He has "washed us from our sins in his own blood".

F.E.R. He has done it, quite so.

A.G. What is the next step to the covenant?

F.E.R. I think reconciliation, only you cannot in Israel get a clear type of reconciliation, because God was dealing there with a people after the flesh; but reconciliation comes out in regard to us, and there you come to an exceedingly important point, viz., to another head.

G.R. I do not know if I quite get hold of that.

F.E.R. In reconciliation God has begun in another Man, that is the point in reconciliation.

A.E.H. That is what is brought out in Romans 5.

F.E.R. And in 2 Corinthians 5. It is of all moment to see that God has begun in another Man, and that Man has removed from before God all that came in by the first man.

W.E. Does that bring in the body?

F.E.R. It paves the way. It brings in life, for you are necessarily in the life of that Man. God has ignored every order of man, Jew and gentile, in coming in by another Man. Consequently God takes up everything now in Christ, "if any one be in Christ there is a new creation".

W.E. You say removed before God, must he not be gone from before you before you can enter into reconciliation?

F.E.R. That is consequent on your seeing that the man is gone from before God, for if he is gone from before God he has gone from before you. If I see sin and death gone from before God, they are gone from before me. If the old man has gone for God he has gone for me, he has gone for me in my seeing that he has gone for God. The putting off of the old man and the putting on of the new is the truth in Jesus.

G.R. So that in reconciliation we are really before God consciously for His perfect complacency.

F.E.R. But in another Man. You have changed your man.

J.S.A. I think we have often had the idea that reconciliation did not mean more than a change of that disposition in us which was contrary to God.

F.E.R. That is not the idea of reconciliation in Scripture.

J.S.A. We have stopped at this, "alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled".

F.E.R. How could that man be reconciled; you could not reconcile a man who is an enemy in mind by wicked works. He can only be so as to being in another individuality.

J.S.A. We have left this part of the scripture out very often.

G.R. The carnal mind is enmity against God. It is not simply at enmity, but it is enmity.

J.B. Now another Man is brought in.

F.E.R. The truth of reconciliation is stated plainly in 2 Corinthians 5, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses". This was in Christ; all that God had to say to man was that He did not impute unto them their trespasses. When Christ was born into the world the song of the heavenly host was, "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good pleasure in men". That was in the birth of Christ. God was "in Christ"; He ignored every other man in a sense, for the moment. There was one Man before Him, and that was Christ. But that was only the beginning; now you get not only the ministry of reconciliation but the word of reconciliation, and that is that all that came in and was left behind by the first man has been removed in Christ; and I believe we have to learn that our own state is irremediable and there is nothing for us now except to be in the life of Christ, for Christ is the one Man who now subsists before God.

G.A.D. So that is where you touch life for the first time.

F.E.R. Quite so. You get a beautiful statement, "if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life". You touch His life now because you have accepted His death.

J.S.A. And is there not an interesting point in connection with reconciliation; it is the beginning on God's side. The kingdom and the covenant are first, but reconciliation is God working for Himself.

F.E.R. Yes, and the way in which He works in that connection is by another Man. It is not apart from man, but by another Man.

J.S.A. And it is unto Himself.

F.E.R. All is for God now. You get that stated, "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to

himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation". That is what the apostle says.

J.S.A. It brings out a beautiful thought, that all life for God is in Christ, and all the rest is a scene of death.

F.E.R. You have come to a very important point, and that is that you change your man. It is no longer Adam, it is Christ.

G.R. One can see how necessary it is to learn that before you can enter the sanctuary, because God cannot have man in the flesh in the sanctuary.

F.E.R. You can only enter the sanctuary in the life of Christ.

G.R. Is that why it says in Hebrews, "through the veil"?

F.E.R. Yes, you have to go in in the way in which Christ came out, that is, by death.

A.G. Would you say in God's purpose of love He had but one Man before Him?

F.E.R. Yes. I think what reconciliation brings in is that you have changed your man, and there is a response in your heart to the love of God. After all, the true measure of every one of us is our response to the love of God set forth in Christ. That is the true stature of a christian. You get that brought in in 1 Corinthians 13.

J.A. Would you say at that point the soul is brought to God?

F.E.R. Yes, you are really brought to God in reconciliation. In the kingdom God is brought to you, but in reconciliation you are brought to God, but in the life of Christ.

J.A. I suppose, "the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost" is God brought to us.

F.E.R. And then as the effect of that there is response to God. The moment you love God you are in the life of Christ.

J.A. I suppose it is at that point God has got man back to Himself.

F.E.R. Exactly, He has secured man's heart for Himself.

J.S.A. And strictly speaking it is for those who love God that the unheard of things are revealed.

F.E.R. Yes.

J.S.A. And that is those who have a response in their hearts to the love of God toward them.

A.E.H. Is that why it says we are reconciled to God?

F.E.R. But you are reconciled to God by Jesus Christ, "we joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement [reconciliation]". You have another head. There is the sense of change from Adam to Christ. That is the point realised in reconciliation.

G.R. Is that worked out in the latter part of Romans 5?

F.E.R. Yes, and thus the argument of the last part of the chapter is to prove that there is only one Man; one man has died, but he left sin and death behind him, and another Man has come in and removed the sin and death which the first man left behind him, and that Man abides.

W.E. Then in the new heavens and the new earth there will be nothing of Adam?

F.E.R. No, Christ is the Head. But what a profound effect that must have on people, for you are influenced and affected in every detail of life by the One who has made known to you the love of God.

J.A. And that in the very scene where God has been dishonoured.

F.E.R. So that reconciliation leads up to the truth of life and of Christ's body.

J.S.A. And it also leads you to understand the having put off the old man and having put on the new.

F.E.R. Quite so.

A.E.H. Is the prodigal an example of reconciliation?

F.E.R. I think so in a way, but in that parable the point is not so much reconciliation as the satisfaction of the father. It is the celebration of grace.

A.G. Is it not important to have before us the death of His Son as that which brings in reconciliation?

F.E.R. Quite so, because He comes in as the One in whom God reconciles everything -- the second Man, and in death He has removed all that came in by the first man.

A.G. The only way in which it could be removed.

F.E.R. There is a distinction between the thought of the first and second Man and that of the old man and the new man. The first man is superseded; the old man is removed. The first man is superseded by the Second; at the same time, all that came in by the first, sin and death, are removed. The meaning of that to a christian is that you must change from Adam to Christ.

W.E. It is really a change over from yourself?