It has been felt for some time past that the ministry of our beloved brother G.R. Cowell was particularly intended of the Lord Jesus to meet the increasing need for a deeper acquaintance with Himself and the promotion of an inward state of soul suited for the presence of Divine Persons.

In publishing these Memorials our prayerful desire, therefore, is that the Lord may be pleased to richly bless and use this ministry of Himself for the help and edification of His dear people wherever they may be found.

FIRST READING

Genesis 2:7 - 9, 3: 24; Romans 5:17 to end; Romans 16:25 - 27; 2 Timothy 1:1

G.R.C. It is in mind in these readings to consider God's relations with men, including the ideas of promise and covenant. It is therefore proposed in the early readings to consider Adam, Noah and Abraham. The word covenant in scripture does not always mean the old or new covenant. Both the old and the new covenants, in the letter, belong to the house of Israel. The old covenant was made with Israel, the new covenant will yet be made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. But covenant is used in a wider way than that; and so in Hosea we have the expression that they, like Adam, have transgressed the covenant, showing that the idea of covenant entered into things at the very beginning. There was an implied covenant in the relations between God and man at the very beginning. Genesis 2 brings out what is fundamental to this subject. The name of God that is used bears on it -- "Jehovah Elohim". "Elohim" refers to the supremacy and majesty of God as Creator to Whom all rights over the creature belong. The One who breathed into man's nostrils the breath of life and therefore whose right it is that every breath man draws should be for Him. Man received his breath from Him -- what intimacy is suggested in that -- and man's breath is in His hand and every breath man breathes should stand related to the God who formed him. The life came from God and was to be for God. Of course

that will yet be brought about. Everything that hath breath will praise Jah. Every outgoing will be to God. The title "Elohim" does not admit of any rival, there is to be no other god.

But "Jehovah" brings in the personal Name showing God's personal interest in man. So that man was in mind in all that He was doing in chapter 1. We see the way He personally had to do with the forming of man, the personal Name being brought in, showing that His affections were peculiarly involved in this. His affections were centred in man. Of course the incarnation proved what a place Man has with God and how God would establish eternally the most remarkable personal relations with this particular creature. With that in view the Word, of whom Adam was but a figure, became flesh. But still, from the outset these great principles were there. "Elohim" was operating in creation generally but in the detailed formation of man the personal Name is introduced, showing how the affections of God were centred in this creature whom He was forming. Then the way He personally had to do with him in breathing into his nostrils. What intimacy is suggested in that! God breathed into the nostrils the breath of life so that all that life was to be for God. It came from God and was to be for God.

Then on the other side what is brought in here is the great principle of obedience. God being who He is, Jehovah Elohim, everything on man's side must stand related to the great principle of obedience and that remains unalterable. Adam transgressed the covenant and he disobeyed but God has never altered that principle any more than the others I have just mentioned -- all these principles stand. Then,

along side of all that we have the tree of life in the midst of the garden which indicates the promise of life; as Paul says in the beginning of Titus, "In the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the ages of time". The witness to that was that the tree in the midst of the garden was the tree of life. Therefore God was committed to that; it was an unconditional promise and the tree was the evidence of it. When disobedience and sin came in, and death by sin, it raised the whole question as to God's glory in every way. But how would God fulfil the promise? The tree of life was the witness to the promise. God could not go back on that, if one might so say, for the tree of life was the centre. Would God be defeated? Would He be unable to carry out that promise? So that great principles are involved in this chapter; basic matters in the ways of God with men which I thought we would get help on in commencing this subject.

Ques. Is the tree of life the setting out of that principle as in God Himself? It is not something that was put into the tree but it seems to be a matter that stands in regard of what is in God Himself? It cannot be affected by anything that may arise, any moral issue. So, as you say, God stands by it.

G.R.C. Yes, God was committed to this before the ages of time. The tree is the witness to it, as far as one sees; and God, if He is to be God, must stand by that.

Rem. The word in Scripture is that He cannot deny Himself.

G.R.C. Well, that is a good word in this connection. He cannot deny Himself. What He has promised He is able to perform.

Rem. Because He is God and He cannot fail.

Ques. Would you say a word as to the presence also of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Does that indicate that God was going to share something with men in that connection too?

G.R.C. I would think that what was in the mind of God was that the great issue of good and evil would be wrought out in man. The matter had arisen in the angelic order; evil had been introduced but the issue would be worked out in man, in this creature upon whom God had set His affections; in that order of being the great issue of good and evil would be wrought out, and in the course of it, God would be glorified. God's affections would come into display, and He would be vindicated as the One who never fails to honour every commitment which He enters into -- here the promise of life. But then also it was no doubt an essential test because sin had come into the universe. So this seems to be an essential test for man, and it is therein that the covenant lies. The word is, "Of every tree of the garden thou shalt freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest of it thou shalt certainly die". So that man's blessing was conditional upon his observing that command.

Ques. The tree of life is said to be in the midst of the garden. Would all the counsels of God flow from that setting, the river indicating, perhaps, God's ability to compass the whole scene in regard of His counsels?

G.R.C. That is very good. It is remarkable that that is how it is put. In the Revelation the tree of life and the river are closely connected. The tree of life

is the central thing but the river speaks typically of the Holy Spirit. How closely the river is linked with the tree! But when the woman speaks in Genesis 3, she says, "... but of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ye shall not eat of it, and ye shall not touch it, lest ye die". That is to say that the woman had got out of reckoning as to what was central. Satan brings in darkness, "Is it even so, that God has said, ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" As we might rightly say, it was a devilish way of putting things, so subtle, to bring in darkness to touch the woman's pride. God had said according to chapter 2: 16, "Of every tree of the garden thou shalt freely eat", that was the way God put things. If she had been right and if she had kept under the headship of her husband, she might have answered in those words which God had used, which proclaimed the unspeakable beneficence of the Creator. The woman says, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden"; she does not say 'we may freely eat'. She is not using God's language at all. She comes down to her own language. Thus the enemy had succeeded in getting things out of centre. He had already succeeded in that in his first remark and the tree of life was no longer the central point for the woman; she was occupied with the forbidden tree -- that was in the midst to her. All this attack was to bring God out of the centre; and the moment God ceases to be the centre man becomes his own centre. That is the very principle of sin -- man becoming his own centre and object.

Ques. Is the full-blown result seen in another world -- Cain's world in chapter 4?

G.R.C. That is just it. So that a world has been

built up where man is his own centre and object. It is the lust of the flesh, as we have often noticed, and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life in Genesis 3:6. That is the order of it. The woman succumbed to those three lusts, the pride of life, in a way, being the most terrible. The pride of life definitely puts man up as the centre and Jehovah Elohim is displaced. That is the principle of sin and the principle upon which the world is built up.

Ques. Does obedience involve attention to every word of God? Does not the Lord Himself say in perfect obedience, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word which goes out through God's mouth"? The woman changed the words, did she not?

G.R.C. That brings out so fully the principle of obedience. How the Lord stood when tempted of the devil in a world where God was denied His place! He said, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word which goes out through God's mouth". If only the woman had fed upon the words which had proceeded out of the mouth of God! Of course, she was not present when they were said but her husband should have passed them on to her -- the very words that proceeded out of the mouth of God. We have to keep to the words of God -- and they are not harsh or arbitrary. "Thy words were found", Jeremiah says, "and I did eat them, and thy words were unto me the joy and rejoicing of my heart", Jeremiah 15:16. But the enemy would pervert matters to get us out of centre and then we lose the sense of the blessedness of God.

Ques. Is it not remarkable that the enemy attacks on the matter of eating, thus seeking to weaken the

constitution so that there is no resistance to evil?

G.R.C. It is remarkable that the enemy first aims at getting the ear of man; he has got the ear of the woman. God is entitled to our ear -- it is every word which proceeds out of His mouth. Our ear should be closed to other things. Jehovah Elohim has full right to our ear, exclusively. The enemy in securing the ear of the woman speaks about food, as you say. Then as to the Lord, he speaks about food, does he not? It shows that it is a vital question.

Ques. Would the position of the tree of life in the midst of the garden have a special meaning when sin came in?

G.R.C. You mean that sin means death, but God was committed to life in spite of sin being already in the universe. Is that what is in your mind?

Ques. Yes, and He is not to be deflected, is He?

G.R.C. No.

Ques. Would the thought of man being formed from the dust of the ground involve that whatever there is in man which is of any value it is divine formation?

G.R.C. That is very good. So Jehovah formed him, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. That is what distinguishes man, is it not?

Rem. Yes. And apart from that he is absolutely nothing. He is not distinguished at all.

G.R.C. No. I suppose that man could never have had his place in the image and likeness of God apart from that breathing in. Otherwise it is "Dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return".

Rem. So that what God forms in man becomes the basis of all that He displays in man; and the former will abide for the satisfaction of divine love

when the latter has assured God's end in the display of His ways.

G.R.C. Yes. So that God is not defeated in what He is doing here in forming man and building the woman; because in the full working out of His ways and counsel the man and the woman will be seen eternally in perfection. But then in the working out of things the principle of obedience remains. That is why I suggested looking into Romans. This fundamental principle in the relations between God and men, obedience on the part of man, is never given up. God is faithful to His promise, the promise of life, but the principle of obedience is never surrendered; it could not be. So in Romans 5 you have the obedience of the one Man. Adam and Christ are contrasted, "... by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous". This should draw out our affections to Christ in a remarkable way as we think of what the one Man has done -- so that we have only one Man before us. "By the obedience of the one". What that meant for Him! How He had to meet the flame of the flashing sword, which turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life. How He has met it! In result, "... as sin has reigned in (the power of) death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord". His obedience there is regarded as one great act, as He says, "Lo, I come ... to do, O God, thy will"; and as we know from the scripture the climax of this was that His body was to

be the antitype of all the four offerings by fire of old. Only thus could the position be retrieved; only thus could the promise of life be carried into effect. Think of the wonder of the one Man, Jesus Christ, coming into the world for that purpose, dedicating Himself; His whole path one of obedience, but culminating in the cross. "Obedient even unto death, and (that the) death of (the) cross", taking our place, bearing our sins, made sin for us; the lengths to which He has gone in obedience, and in result, grace reigning through righteousness to eternal life through Him -- but at what cost! God glorified; God's faithfulness to His promise established; grace reigning through righteousness to eternal life; thus the promise of life is secured.

Rem. It says "On this account the Father loves me, because I lay down my life ... I have received this commandment of my Father". Is that the one act of perfect obedience compassing all obedience?

G.R.C. Indeed it is. So in the carrying out of this one righteousness, this wonderful economy (see 1 Timothy 1:4) in which we live has come into view. We live in the economy of God; that is where life really is, and it is in connection with the one Man, Jesus Christ and His committal to the path of obedience, that the economy in which we live has become available, as it were, to men. So the Word becoming flesh has meant a system of affections and relationships coming into view. He was ever loved before the foundation of the world, but now He is loved in a new relation, as having said, "Lo I come", and as "the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father". The obedience which is spoken of here relative to God and man in Romans 5 was carried out in actuality in the

affections of an only-begotten. How He is loved! Loved before the foundation of the world; loved in the relationship into which as Man He entered as an "only-begotten"; loved because of His obedience unto death. How the Father loves Him, and how we ought to love Him! We are espoused to one Man; and the one Man gains that place in our affections, to begin with, on the line of Romans 5.

Ques. Does this matter bring in the Lord's peculiar place as Head -- the new Head for man -- in which what you refer to as covenant relations with men are now established for men in a new Head?

G.R.C. Yes, it is noticeable that the word "Head" is not used in Romans 5. It is two men who are brought before us, one man and another Man. It implies His Headship, but really Romans 5 gives the moral basis for His Headship. The moral basis on which He is now the Head for man, and is available for all men, is that He has carried out what is called the "one righteousness". But then to follow this line of obedience we have to come down to our side. We have spoken of Christ and the one obedience but the blessings that flow from the obedience of the one Man can only be received by us on the principle of obedience. So in Romans 1 Paul refers to the fact that he was separated to God's glad tidings but that he received grace and apostleship in behalf of His name for obedience of faith among all the nations. God has not in any way given up this great basic principle of obedience; everything has been secured for men, and for God too, by the obedience of the one Man, Jesus Christ; but then the blessings which are flowing from that are presented to men for the obedience of faith. The gospel is not a voluntary

matter. We do not preach free-will, there is no such thought. The gospel is a Divine command. "God commands all men everywhere to repent", and woe be to them if they do not. It is a Divine command. God has opened the door of repentance, but apart from the one Man Jesus Christ and the righteousness He has completed there would be no door open for repentance in view of life and blessing. But the one Man Jesus Christ having finished His work, the glad tidings flowing from it are proclaimed for obedience. We are not telling people that they can choose. God's rights are involved in the gospel. He has a right to men's ear and has a right that man should obey His word. The gospel is His word.

Ques. Would the thought of the obedience of faith be the beginning so to speak of being constituted righteous?

G.R.C. A man constituted righteous must be an obedient man, a man who faithfully hearkens to the word, who lives by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And he begins by hearkening to the gospel.

Ques. Was not Eve diverted in her thoughts before her acts, and does not the matter of faith come in with what we are inwardly? The apostle in Ephesians 2 speaks of "our conversation in the lusts of our flesh, doing what the flesh and the thoughts willed to do". Is it not important that the inwards are thus affected first?

G.R.C. Quite so. So "ye ... have obeyed from the heart". That is where the obedience is. They had received the gospel. In other words, they had obeyed from the heart the form of teaching because there is teaching in the gospel as well as preaching.

Ques. Does the preaching of the gospel involve the new covenant?

G.R.C. Well it involves more than covenant. The gospel is altogether greater than what is formally called the new covenant, which will be made with the house of Israel and Judah, but the gospel comes on new covenant principles. It is God approaching men, not on the line of demand like the old covenant but on the line of supply. In the gospel God approaches men offering them the abundance of grace, the free gift of righteousness and then eternal life. It is all freely offered on new covenant principles, God saying what He will do and what He will give; but the gospel is far greater than the new covenant in its terms ever visualised.

Ques. Do the opening verses of Peter's first epistle as to election according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by sanctification of the Spirit, unto the obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ, fit in with the thought that the gospel is greater than the covenant? Is obedience emphasised in connection with election and sanctification?

G.R.C. I take it that the priesthood is in mind there. I would think the sprinkling of the blood there includes the ram of consecration -- that we are committed in priestly devotion to the obedience of Christ ourselves. Therefore you can see how the priesthood from that standpoint is constituted righteous.

Ques. Would that involve the gift of the Spirit, which according to Acts 5 God has given to those who obey Him?

G.R.C. Very good. Sanctification of the Spirit involves of course the gift of the Spirit, and it is very interesting that the Spirit is given to those who obey.

Then the passage we read at the close of Romans carries the thought of obedience even further and it is very important for us to lay hold of it. The truth of the mystery is no more optional than the gospel. There is no thought that a man can receive the gospel and go on with the truth of the church or not just as he wishes. This is a current idea abroad, as we know, in Christendom. Those who do this do not hearken to the word and they are not characteristically obedient. The word in the end of Romans is: "Now to him that is able to establish you, according to my glad tidings and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, as to which silence has been kept in (the) times of the ages, but (which) has now been made manifest, and by prophetic scriptures ..". -- what now follows is the part we need to pay great attention to -- "according to commandment of the eternal God, made known for obedience of faith to all the nations", Romans 16:25, 26. That is, the mystery is as obligatory as the gospel; there is no question of free-will in this either. It is put so strongly: "commandment of the eternal God". God's rights are specially involved in this matter that those who receive the gospel should go on to the mystery. It is to all, all the nations; it is as wide in its scope as the gospel. The gospel is announced to all the nations -- chapter 1: 5 -- and the mystery is made known to all the nations and both are "for obedience of faith". A person who does not go on with the mystery and fit into his place in the body and function in the assembly is disobedient to the word. This is so important because this is the thing that God's heart is so bound up with. It is the man and the woman according to Genesis 2. We

have spoken of life, that is a basic matter. There could be nothing without life. But then what is the greatest feature of life according to God? It is seen in the man and the woman. The woman taken out of the man. There we see life in a superlative way and that is the truth of the mystery. God must feel it intensely when persons do not go on to the truth of the mystery. One would like it to come home to one's own heart, and to all the brethren, that to take up the truth of the assembly and to work out the truth of the body and the bride, the wife, the city, and all these features of the assembly, is the command of the eternal God, for obedience of faith. We should be set for these things. If God has operated in the way He has done to bring in life in spite of all that has happened, how He must feel it, and does feel it, if we do not go on to His full thoughts.

Rem. Paul could not finish without bringing this in at the end.

G.R.C. That is just it. He could not finish without speaking of the mystery. The gospel is never to be divorced from the assembly. Every one who is obedient to the gospel, in the divine thought is to be obedient to the truth of the assembly, the mystery.

Ques. And we should never differentiate between the preacher of the gospel and the ministry as to the assembly. Is there not a tendency to speak of one as preaching the gospel and another being an assembly man? Should not an assembly man be really evangelical and a true evangelic man an assembly man?

G.R.C. An evangelist according to Ephesians 4 is for the edifying of the body of Christ, just as much as the apostle, prophet and teacher. So the evangelist

according to God is an assembly man. He has nothing less in his mind than the assembly. His gift is evangelizing but he has nothing less in his mind than the assembly and he certainly would not leave his converts with any idea that they should stop short of the assembly.

Ques. Would the full presentation of the gospel and the apprehension of it make way for the immediate reception of the truth of the mystery? Is it not a defective gospel that often leaves an obscurity in the soul?

G.R.C. Perhaps you would just enlarge a little on that as to how you would bring in the link.

Rem. Well, I mean that souls brought into the truth of the gospel on the lines that you have been speaking of -- the obedience of faith -- will be ready for something further. But whilst things are received on an optional basis, what is further in the mind of God tends to be obscured.

G.R.C. I am sure that is right. We must not announce the gospel as though it was optional. People who receive the gospel under a preaching, which gives them the idea that it is their choice, and who have just taken it up of their own free-will, unless they get help on it will never be churchmen. The gospel is a command for the obedience of faith. Men disobey at their peril, as we know, and the truth of the mystery is equally a command. None of us should entertain the idea of stopping short.

Rem. Does not the apostle conclude with God as the Centre? He not only says, "according to commandment of the eternal God", but then he says, "the only wise God". So that in that sense even what God has brought out in the way of mystery is

not enough for the soul but it must be God Himself. I thought that would connect with Genesis as you were saying.

G.R.C. That is very fine. We see in Genesis how God was displaced by the devil's operations and man became his own centre and his own object. At the end of God's operations God Himself is the Centre, and how could it be apart from the working out of the mystery? because God becomes the Centre when Christ and the assembly are in their place, finally, in public glory. Is that not the way that God will secure His place in the universe?

Rem. It is indeed. And I wondered if that was involved in the fact that He set the man to till the garden before he is said to guard it. We may put great emphasis on guarding matters but the tilling may leave us unaffected by what is for God Himself.

G.R.C. Would you say a little more on tilling?

Rem. Well, I thought that it was a question of making good what God had in mind. He had set man in that environment in order that out of it might come what was for God Himself.

G.R.C. Very good.

Ques. Would Paul set it out when he says of himself, "I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision"? Do you think that was a vision of the gospel and the mystery and he was completely obedient to both?

G.R.C. I certainly think it was. "I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision"; what an example Paul is for us! What a pattern! He was not disobedient; and as our brother says, the vision disclosed to him is not only the truth of the gospel but also the truth of the mystery.

SECOND READING

Genesis 8:20, 21; Genesis 9:1 - 17; Romans 13:1 - 6; 1 Timothy 4:9, 10

G.R.C. What is in mind for this reading is consideration of the conditions established in the present heavens and earth. Peter in his second epistle says, "... the then world, deluged with water, perished". Then he speaks of the present heavens and the earth, and goes on further to speak of a new heavens and a new earth. He also tells us that "the present heavens and the earth by his word are laid up in store, kept for fire unto the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men". But meantime the present heavens and earth are being used by God as the sphere where His ways are being worked out and His purpose according to counsel is being carried through.

After the flood God established stable conditions; first, in respect of government, putting the sword in the hand of man in the way of magisterial government; and secondly, by His covenant with Noah and his sons with him. It says in Genesis 9:9 - 10, "Behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; and with every living soul, which is with you, fowl as well as cattle, and all the animals of the earth with you, of all that has gone out of the ark -- every animal of the earth". Further down in verse 13 it speaks of "the covenant between me and the earth", and verse 16, "the everlasting covenant between God and every living soul of all flesh that is upon the earth". So I think we should consider

the goodness and faithfulness of God in establishing government, and at the same time committing Himself, by an unconditional and everlasting covenant, to maintain creational conditions, which are favourable all the days of the earth. The earth is in mind in this covenant, not heaven; the earth is the scene of operations, and the covenant lasts all the days of the earth, that is, until after the world to come. This covenant continues right through the millennial day, the thousand years reign of Christ; and of course, much of what is stated here can be taken as prophetic of millennial conditions. But one is not concerned to view it in that respect this afternoon, but to view it as it bears on us. This covenant has been in force from the time of Noah right until today, and it remains in force all the days of the earth. It is in force today, and it should move our souls to think of God entering into this covenant with Noah and his seed -- for we are Noah's seed -- and with fowl as well as cattle, and all the animals of the earth -- every animal of the earth. It is wonderful to think of God taking account of creation in this way, and making a covenant. The covenant is with the animals as well as with men; this would give us respect for God's creatures. We are to respect every living soul and treat it rightly. Thus we have here God's consideration for every living soul on the earth, and particularly for man. For He says in Genesis 8:21, "I will no more henceforth curse the ground on account of man" -- or as the Authorised Version says, "for man's sake". It is very touching that what God does is primarily on account of man; His affections are set upon man, and His affections require that all that He has purposed concerning man should come to pass. Even as to the

sabbath the Lord says that the sabbath was made on account of man. We shall never understand the sabbath if we do not understand that. God's rest is in man -- especially, of course, in Christ. God is thinking of man, and His purpose as to man, and it affects Him in His heart. It says, "Jehovah said in his heart, I will no more henceforth curse the ground on account of man". When you think of God providing these stable conditions with the incarnation in view -- although many things were to happen first in His ways -- and with a view to Christ coming and the assembly being formed, it should cause worship in our hearts. It is quite a mistake to leave this out of our Christian worship and praise. Peter speaks of committing our souls in well-doing to a faithful Creator, evidently having this covenant in his mind. Paul speaks of Him as the Preserver of all men, especially of those that believe; this again, one would judge, is a reference to this covenant. Then another thing which should affect us deeply is the basis of the covenant. It says, "Jehovah smelled the sweet odour", or sweet odour of rest. Noah "took of every clean animal, and of all clean fowl, and offered up burnt-offerings on the altar". If we have stable conditions on earth, if government is favourable, and if the seasons remain, and seed time and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, and day and night continue, we owe it all to the offering up of Christ upon the altar. It should enter into our minds whenever we give thanks for our food, that we receive our food because Christ has died as a burnt offering. That would bring in a great meaning, when we give thanks, to the words, "in the Name of the Lord Jesus".

Ques. Does the enlargement of man's menu to include flesh have that in mind? In chapter 9 verse 2 they are delivered into his hand for food. It says, "Into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you: as the green herb I give you everything". It would seem that God introduces flesh for man to eat at this time, in order to maintain at every meal a testimony to the fact that man lives on the principle of substitution, referring back to the odour of rest.

G.R.C. Yes, that is very interesting; we live on food which is the result of death, "Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you". Only we are not to eat the blood; "Only, the flesh with its life, its blood, ye shall not eat". The blood is for God at all times, but our natural life is sustained by food that is the result of death. As you say, that would remind us that all rests upon the death of Christ.

Ques. Would this bear upon the blood of the eternal covenant? Would the carrying through of every divine thought of God in view of man, rest upon the efficacy of the blood of Christ? And should we not take more into consideration the bondage that exists amongst men, and the whole creation groaning at the present moment?

G.R.C. I think so. One reason why God has established these stable conditions is that the glad tidings might be preached to all creation. He has in mind before long to deliver the creation from the bondage of corruption, into the liberty of the glory of the children of God. Before this period to which this everlasting covenant applies is completed, the whole creation will be delivered from the bondage of corruption. It is a wonderful thing; but meantime in

our day these stable conditions are maintained that the glad tidings might be preached, and that the truth of the mystery might be worked out.

Ques. Is all this to produce in us true piety? Would you say a word as to piety in this connection?

G.R.C. The chapter we read from in Timothy deals with piety. It says in verse 4, "For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, being received with thanksgiving", and in the previous verse, "which God has created for receiving with thanksgiving for them who are faithful and know the truth". Then the apostle goes on to speak of piety. It shows how important thanksgiving is in this connection. He says to Timothy, "Laying these things before the brethren, thou wilt be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished with the words of the faith and of the good teaching which thou hast fully followed up". So these practical things relating to piety are essential. This was written for the saints at Ephesus; and we in our day should be balanced in our apprehension of God and the truth. "A good minister of Christ Jesus" would be one, I suppose, with the whole mind of God before him as to purpose; but he is a good minister of Christ Jesus if he lays these things before the brethren. The Spirit speaks expressly about them too, showing that this line of things is not of secondary importance. The purpose of God as to the mystery is the primary matter, but we cannot relegate these things to what is secondary: this is very important. In fact, without this as a background the other would never go forward. Then having spoken of the profitableness of piety he goes on to say, "The word is faithful and worthy of all acceptation; for, for this we labour and suffer reproach".

So this is an integral part of the testimony. It is "because we hope in a living God, who is preserver of all men, especially of those that believe".

Ques. Is there a certain testimony connected with not eating blood? In certain parts there is a habit of eating things which contain blood as blood, and it seems to me that it is a matter of testimony that that should be refrained from, especially in view of the word in Acts 15, which seems to be a carrying forward of this into Christianity.

G.R.C. I would think that is right, "Only, the flesh with its life, its blood, ye shall not eat". Later, in Leviticus 7:27, it is made clear that the blood is for God; it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul. Of course that is the precious blood of Christ; but the blood as representing life is always for God.

Ques. Would you say something about the covenant in chapter 9? It seems to be unconditional.

G.R.C. Well, it is unconditional as far as our side of things is concerned. Really, we know, it all rests from the divine side on the burnt offering. "Noah built an altar to Jehovah; and took of every clean animal ... And Jehovah smelled the sweet odour", so what sets God free to maintain these stable conditions on earth, in spite of what man is, is what Christ is, and what Christ has done. Noah can be regarded as a type of Christ, his name means 'repose'; God's rest had been disturbed, but here was a man in whom God could rest; and He smells the sweet odour of rest. So we can think of Christ and His perfection and the perfection of His offering, and all we receive from God as a faithful Creator comes to us on that ground.

Rem. Paul at Lystra really appeals to this covenant, does he not? He says that God gives them rain and fruitful seasons, and then he appeals on this principle to men.

G.R.C. His speaking of giving us rain and fruitful seasons bears on Genesis 9. The only rain Noah had ever seen, I suppose, was the rain of judgment when the pour of rain was forty days and forty nights on the earth. Rain had not been seen, I would think, before that on the earth. But the bow in the cloud is the evidence that when rain comes now it is in view of blessing. Now it is the early and the latter rain, having the harvest in mind. So that we are not to fear clouds, because of the covenant. That applies in a spiritual way as well as an actual way.

Rem. In Acts 17 Paul says He gives to all "life and breath and all things".

G.R.C. Yes, quite so. Paul had this in mind on Mars Hill; it is upon this basis that Paul makes the appeal to the Athenians. They would not know the Jewish Scriptures. You can appeal to any man on the basis of this passage. But the 14th of Acts where Paul says, "giving to you from heaven rain and fruitful seasons" bears very much on this. Because up to this point rain was judgment. But from this point on, the burnt offering having been offered, when the cloud came there would be the bow in the cloud. It was to be rain in view of blessing.

Ques. Do you think the understanding of this would help us to be different from those around at a time when men are troubled by the ever-expanding efforts being made to reach out to the borders of creation? Should not the saints be marked as those who know that God has everything under control,

and will not loosen those reins while the earth remains?

G.R.C. I think so. Some people think that men by their efforts can affect the weather; this does not indicate that at all. God is controlling the weather; man is not controlling the weather; and how comforting that our faithful Creator has promised that all the days of the earth, seed time and harvest, and cold and heat, summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease. How thankfully we can leave all creational matters to Him.

Ques. And in that way does it stress the importance of our being occupied with what is positive? The tree of life was spoken of in the reading this morning, and now the sweet odour; God does not touch on any of the potential difficulties that He knew would come in; He is dealing with what is.

G.R.C. Quite so; He has established these conditions that the tree of life might be available to men. It is beautiful to think of the Tree of Life, the one Man Jesus Christ, and the obedience of the one Man, and all that He did in that respect, even unto death, which has made Him available now as the Tree of J I Life to men. The glad tidings is really preached to that end that men might feed on that food. Rem. In Colossians we read of the hope of the glad tidings, which have been proclaimed in the whole creation. Does that, and reconciliation, rest on the blood of the eternal covenant?

G.R.C. When you speak of the blood of the eternal covenant, you are thinking of the last chapter of Hebrews?

Rem. Yes, and then in Colossians, "having made peace by the blood of his cross".

G.R.C. Yes, that would refer to the work which is the basis of reconciliation having been accomplished. This in Genesis would be looking on to that, do you think?

Rem. Well, I am seeking to get some help as to whether we really understand the full wondrous value and efficacy of the blood of Jesus as laying the basis for all that we are speaking of now.

G.R.C. My impression is that that expression "the God of peace, who brought again from among (the) dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, in (the power of) the blood of (the) eternal covenant", Hebrews 13:20, is not relating to the new covenant only. I believe it is a much wider idea. It is not a specific covenant there but I think it is the general idea of the eternal results that are based upon the precious blood of Christ. The present conditions that we are speaking about in the world, these stable conditions in the present heavens and earth, are based upon that precious blood. And God's purpose, both as to heavenly and earthly families, rests on the secure foundation of that precious blood. I believe in that sense that the idea of the everlasting covenant is a very wide thought. It is a great general idea to bring home to us that the blood of Christ in that respect lies at the basis of everything that God establishes.

Rem. I am very thankful that you have referred to that, because I believe that we need to have a greater inward evidence of holy feelings for our fellow men, and for the whole creation.

G.R.C. Well, I believe that this chapter would give us feelings for men, and even for animals. God has made a covenant with animals, so it behoves us to

have respect for animals; and God will have to say to those who do not have respect for animals, and who do not treat His creatures as they should be treated.

This chapter is a warning to men to have respect for the creatures of God. God is going to enter into judgment with men for the way that they have treated His creatures. First of all we have to have proper respect for the rights of God, and on that account we do not eat the blood of any animal. Then there are the rights of animals. Then there is the great point of man, the rights of God in connection with man, and the rights and dignity of man. For it says, "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God he hath made man"; that is, we are never to forget that man has been made in the image of God. The Communist system, for instance, ignores the rights of God, and ignores the dignity of human personality; whereas God has set up government on earth to preserve both His rights, and the dignity of human personality, as made in the image of God.

Ques. Did not Mr. T -- some years back make a remark about the blood sports, in which man is ill-treating the animals; did he not say in that connection that they would do the same to mankind if they had the opportunity, so putting the two thoughts together?

G.R.C. That is very interesting. You mean the two things go together -- if God's rights are denied it will affect man's treatment both of animals and of his brother. You will notice that God even requires a man's blood at the hand of every animal; but government is put into the hands of man in connection with man. "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God

he hath made man". How righteous God is in this!

We ought to spend a little time now in considering this matter of government and the goodness of God in establishing government. Public conditions before the flood were chaotic, though there was the line of faith; but from the time of the flood, God has maintained government on the earth; that is why we read Romans 13. What is in mind here is what we call magisterial government, in contrast to political government. In the times of the nations the political rulers are responsible for magisterial government; the two become identified. Magisterial government in itself, of course, specially relates to the judges and magistrates. God supports government of that kind for the punishment of the evil doer and the reward of those who do well.

Ques. Does the Lord remind Pilate of that? He says "Thou hadst no authority whatever against me if it were not given to thee from above".

G.R.C. Yes, the Lord acknowledges this. So the sword was put into the hands of man, at this point in a magisterial capacity; and he bears not the sword in vain, because God supports him.

Ques. When it refers in Timothy to God being the Preserver of all men, especially those who believe, has it in view both God's thoughts in creation, and also preserving men by the institution of government? While generally men have disregarded God's rights in creation, and very largely rejected authority, yet are the saints as believing and acknowledging God's rights, and being subject to the authorities, in a large measure preserved here for God's pleasure?

G.R.C. I think both thoughts enter into the title of God as the Preserver, the thought of government

and the stable conditions. God was not going to allow again the chaotic conditions which occurred before the flood, so He establishes government. But I believe these two things would not only be an occasion of praise but would help us in our approach to God in prayer about matters. We should, as we know, be continually in prayer for kings and all in dignity. But I think we should be able to approach God about such matters as the weather, too.

Ques. Do you think the generally stable conditions provided in the Noah period give God a foundation for introducing the love period and the heavenly calling?

G.R.C. That is the main purport: God had other dispensations to run, other periods in His way; but the main point in establishing these conditions, this covenant, was because of the incarnation and the assembly period following. Then, of course, there is the world to come following that, the period of display.

Ques. Is it important that in Romans 13:5 God brings the conscience in?

G.R.C. It certainly is important, because we recognise God as the Source of the authority. "Let every soul be subject to the authorities that are above him. For there is no authority except from God". God put this authority into the hands of man. What is brought out here is the ultimate penalty for the most serious form of evil doing; but it really covers the whole matter of government. But then later this form of government was merged with kingly and imperial power, particularly under Solomon; and after the breakdown of Israel it was placed into the hands of the gentile emperors beginning with Nebuchadnezzar.

So we have to keep in our mind that whatever the vicissitudes of mankind, and the changes in the international sphere, that authority remains. And now matters are in the hands of the gentile rulers, God holds them responsible for this kind of government. As politicians they have other ambitions and so on, but God still holds them to this. So you find in most countries, unless they are very perverted, that there is an effort to maintain this kind of government; and really the fact that it is maintained is a miracle, it could not be maintained but for Divine power. So we need to be in prayer before God about it, and to take account of the fact that it is primarily there for the saints. It is there for the whole scene; God is the Preserver of all men -- but specially of those who believe. So it says in Romans 13:3 and 4, "Practise what is good, and thou shalt have praise from it; for it is God's minister to thee for good". That is the purpose, from the divine side, of the authority. It is God's minister to us for good.

Ques. Is the "it" the authority? Is it the persons?

G.R.C. It is vested in persons, but it is put in that abstract way, "God's minister to thee for good".

Ques. Would this have a bearing on the way the saints are being brought to have to do directly with rulers and authorities? Would your remarks encourage our faith in that regard?

G.R.C. I think so. If we look back at Genesis 9, what is involved are the rights of God, and the dignity of man as God's image. That is what authority is vested in men to maintain. Therefore we should be encouraged to approach authorities with those two things in mind. If we see what God has in mind in giving authority, we can pray to Him about it; we can

pray that those who are wielding it at the moment may be so under His control that they may use it in the way He intends. The intention is that they should maintain His rights in a governmental way, and maintain man's dignity and man's position as His representative.

Ques. So we recognise the "it", the authority itself, and can leave restfully in the hands of God the kind and character of persons who are engaged in it?

G.R.C. That is right, because it says in Daniel that He sets over it -- the kingdom -- whomsoever He will. And He may set over it the basest of men. God does sometimes use the imperial powers as disciplinary agents, and they may act against His people, treating the saints as though they were evil doers. That is a perversion of their power; the saints are not evil doers. True believers are never evil-doers if they are walking in faith and the obedience of faith, and the authority ought always to be in their favour. But sometimes our state is such that God allows the basest of men to get in control, so that the magistracy treat believers as evil-doers; but then God has good in His mind even in that. Indirectly it is going to work out for good. It is like the clouds coming up over the earth; the rain was known as judgment, and the clouds coming up might have caused those who had been in the ark to fear another judgment, but the bow in the cloud indicated it was only in view of blessing. That is how the prophet speaks of the clouds which come up sometimes in the sphere of government. Nahum whose name means 'comfort' says, "His way is in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet". He is referring to the Assyrian

power, Nineveh, a disciplinary agent. Sometimes the clouds gather in the political sphere, and government becomes hostile, but God's way is in that. He is in it; He is moving with a view to good, and there is the bow in the cloud; that is, Christ is with the Father in His throne. There is no question of any matter of government going wrong as regards believers because the Lord has sat down with His Father in His throne. The Father has all government under His hand and the Lord is with Him in it. If we have been wrong, if government is against us because we need some correction, the correction is in view of our blessing. So that the bow in the cloud is there.

Rem. In that connection would you make a remark about the three Hebrew children and Daniel? You were saying that if the government is against us it is we who need the discipline. How does that work out with the three Hebrew children and Daniel?

G.R.C. I would think in Daniel it was allowed for the sake of the testimony. God permits rulers at times to make demands on the saints when we have to say "we must obey God rather than men". That is for the sake of the testimony, as in the Acts, because it was God's will that they should testify before rulers.

Rem. So that Paul, whilst ostensibly put in prison as an evil-doer, writes to the Philippians that the circumstances in which he was turned out rather to the furtherance of the glad tidings.

G.R.C. Yes. Paul was being treated as an evil-doer and under bonds. The magisterial side of government was under the control of the political and was perverted. Paul was not an evil-doer. He should not have been in prison, but it was a turning out to the furtherance of the gospel for a testimony. Sometimes

we have to be prepared to suffer in order that Christ's name may be borne before nations and kings and the sons of Israel.

Rem. Have not our brethren in Eastern Germany proved this in a wonderful way? They have made a number of applications to the Government to recognise the brethren as a whole and grant them liberty, but the Government decided that as there was no entity of brethren in that area they would delegate to the local police the authority to allow the brethren to meet together. The brethren have neither interfered with the political trend, nor have they opposed it, and in every place the local police have given the brethren the right to meet together.

G.R.C. That is encouraging.

Rem. I was wondering if it is significant that after God introduces government in the way of which you have been speaking we get a word similar to what we have earlier, "Be fruitful and multiply"?

G.R.C. That seems very interesting -- Genesis 9:7. How could this be without ordered government? God so orders government that we may multiply and swarm on the earth in testimony.

Ques. Is it therefore very remarkable that in the English speaking countries, at least, provision has been made for conscience in the Military Acts, showing how the saints are free in relation to the rights of God?

G.R.C. As far as I know, the British Commonwealth for a hundred years or so has been marked by the recognition of conscience in every aspect, not only as to military service. We may limit it to military service in this country in our thoughts, but liberty of conscience has been allowed for in every

way, as far as one can see, in each of the Dominions. In South Africa recently, as many may know, a new Military Service Bill was introduced without a conscience clause, but the brethren bore testimony, and although the case might have seemed hopeless at the beginning, it ended in statutory regulations being made which have given the brethren all they desired. Following that, the South African Government introduced an Act making membership of trade unions compulsory, and the brethren applied again and they got all they desired; they can get certificates of exemption, and go on with their work. Similar things have happened in Australia and New Zealand. There is a clause about to be introduced into the New Zealand Society of Accountants Act, allowing men to practice in the fullest way as an accountant without being members, if they have a conscience against membership. That is on the application of three brothers. So that we have got an opened door in this respect at the moment.

Rem. According to Job the clouds are balanced, and we have to get near to the One who is perfect in knowledge in regard to the balancing of these clouds.

G.R.C. That is it. The balancing of the clouds is in His hand, and blessing is always in mind because the bow is in the cloud. And we shall prove even in these governmental matters the blessings of the early and the latter rain.

Ques. Regarding the swarming on the earth which you spoke of, do we see this in 1 Timothy 2 where we are exhorted that first of all supplications, prayers, intercessions and so on be made with a view to men knowing our Saviour God, and coming to a knowledge of the truth?

G.R.C. Yes, we have to keep that passage always in mind. Supplications come first, and mean that you know what is needed and essential at the moment, and you are urgent about it. It is not vague prayers in the prayer meeting, praying in a general way for kings and all in dignity; but you know specifically what is needed at the time and you are before God about it. Those are the kind of prayers we need to go in for, remembering that the authority from God's standpoint is a minister to us for good.

Ques. Would there be an opened door standing connected with this great era of assembly revival, as seen and worked out in Philadelphia? Does it indicate that God is active behind the scenes in view of things being worked out in relation to what is so dear to Him, in regard to Christ and the assembly, in these last days?

G.R.C. I wondered whether we need to have particularly in our minds the Lord's word to Philadelphia, and count upon it, and speak to Him about it. "I have set before thee an opened door, which no one can shut". That refers to a spiritual door but it also refers to a governmental door. Therefore we are entitled to expect, in these days, favour from the authorities. It is not like the days in the Acts. This is a special time when the Lord has in mind just what it says in Timothy, that we should lead peaceable and quiet lives, in all piety and gravity, with a view to working out the truth in its totality at the close of the dispensation. The Lord's heart is bound up with this, that there should be, at the close, a true representation of the assembly. Therefore we can count on special conditions. We need faith to take the matter up, believing what the Lord has said. It

is typified in the rulers of Persia -- Cyrus, Darius, Artaxerxes, all were favourable. Esther came into the picture -- she was the wife of the father of Artaxerxes, the king who permitted Ezra to go up and to whom Nehemiah made his request -- and she risked her life. We cannot say how far her influence went, there was the influence of Esther and Mordecai behind the scenes, and Daniel before that, those who had to do with authority, and the result was that things went forward and every requirement connected with the house of God was allowed for by those kings. Their concern was that the house of God should function in every feature of it, and that is the point at the moment; that all that is due to God in His house might be answered to. If the opened door means what we think it means, the Lord is committed to support us in relation to the authorities so that no obstruction may be allowed in the way and we may carry out every principle of the house of God at the close until the rapture.

Rem. So the Lord says in the church gospel, Matthew, "All power is given unto me, in heaven and on earth".

G.R.C. Very good.

Rem. I suppose the assembly responds to the sacrificial love of Christ. One feels that everything for God is on the line of sacrifice.

G.R.C. You mean that these matters mean sacrifice to those who are called upon to face it, like Esther who said, "If I perish, I perish". This matter of facing the authorities is bound to be a test. It says in Romans 13, after speaking of fear, "it bears not the sword in vain" and then "Render to all their dues; to whom tribute is due tribute, to whom custom,

custom; to whom fear, fear ..". So a proper fear is right in regard to the authorities, and how we approach them. Inwardly there is boldness, because we are there in relation to the rights of God; but in an outward way we should be marked by the fear that is due to those placed in that position by God.

Rem. Having the understanding of the word in Revelation "and no one can shut" it.

G.R.C. That would help us to be bold, would it not?

Rem. And help us to understand what you have been telling us, that God has ordered these very circumstances in view of our taking advantage of them.

G.R.C. Yes, I believe that is the thing. We ought to take advantage of the favourable conditions the Lord has brought, about in the world at the present time, in view of what He is seeking prior to the rapture.

Rem. We should take advantage of them but not presume upon them. They require a prayerful state constantly.

G.R.C. Well, fear would enter into that, would it not? It is not a light matter to approach those in authority.

THIRD READING

Genesis 14:22 to end; Genesis 15:1 - 6; Genesis 17:1 - 11; Genesis 22:15 - 18

G.R.C. We have so far considered God's relations with Adam and Noah. Now with Abraham we have the covenants of promise. We were at one time "aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise", Ephesians 2:12. We have to take account of the setting in which these covenants of promise were introduced; the flood had taken place and man had used the stable conditions, which God had set up in government and creationally, not to serve God but to introduce idolatry in an organised way. This is seen in the tower of Babel. At the present time how many are using these stable conditions, introduced through the covenant with Noah, to bring about idolatry as these did. This is a most dreadful thing -- taking advantage of these good conditions to make for themselves a city and a name. Although God governmentally weakened all that by confounding languages -- a great mercy -- yet the thing went on and developed form and it still goes on. Great Babylon is the final view of it in Revelation -- the glorification of man, wrought out in this present earth where God is still shut out, and man is using the conditions to bring about organised idolatry. So we have Sodom running alongside Abraham; men using the favourable conditions which God has brought in, just for pride, fulness of bread and careless ease.

We can only look at one or two points in

Abraham's history but in chapter 12 we get, "Go out of thy land, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, to the land that I will shew thee". God is about to introduce the covenants of promise, which are unconditional in themselves, and yet contingent upon the obedience of faith. This is never given up -- the principle of obedience is never dispensed with -- it could not be. "By faith Abraham, being called, obeyed", and because of the organised idolatry all around, the call was for separation, "Go out ... from thy kindred, and from thy father's house". Following this, what comes out is the idea of God being God to a person, in the covenant of circumcision. That is what God is aiming at, that He should be God to persons. So He says in Genesis 17:7, "I will establish my covenant between me and thee, and thy seed after thee in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be a God to thee, and thy seed after thee". Then in the next verse, "I will be a God to them". That is really the vital point in personal relations with God, and it bears on what is collective too, God is operating that He should be a God to persons. He is God but in this world of idolatry He desires to be a God to certain persons.

Rem. In Hebrews 11:16, "God is not ashamed of them, to be called their God". Does that fit in with what you are saying?

G.R.C. Yes, bringing in our side of it. In one sense there is what is unconditional from God's side in the promises, yet they are contingent firstly on separation, and secondly on circumcision. If we answer to those two things God will not be ashamed of us, to be called our God.

Ques. Is it significant that in 1 Corinthians 1,

the fellowship is on that principle? "God is faithful, by whom ye have been called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord".

G.R.C. Quite so. There is the idea in scripture of being "called out", and then, "called into", as you say. We are not called out to a vacuum. God has called us into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ques. Would you say a word, please, as to the use of the Names of God in this sequence of events, beginning with "Jehovah" calling him out, then the "Almighty God", and then "It is I"? Does that link up with the thought in your mind?

G.R.C. Yes. First you have the personal Name. We have to keep in mind that the personal Name of God is threefold: "I Am", "Jehovah", and "Jah", three cognate words; so the personal Name "Jehovah" is here. But as things proceed, God discloses Himself first as the Most High El, "El Elyon", then as the Almighty El, "El Shaddai". So that the title "El", The Mighty, is first used, I think, in chapter 14 as to the Most High. Then it is used again in chapter 16, but prominently in chapter 17 in connection with the covenant, "I am the Almighty El", and that, one would judge, is the greatest title of God.

Ques. Do you distinguish between a title and a name?

G.R.C. A title can be applied to false gods. There are those that men would call, and have called, 'El', for example, Psalm 44:20, "to a strange god", 'el'. But "Jehovah" is the personal Name of the only true El. We have to know who the only true God is, so that we do not attribute attributes of deity to false gods. Jehovah was the only true God.

Ques. Is what we have in 2 Corinthians similar, yet more intimate -- "Come out from the midst of them, and be separated, saith the Lord, and touch not what is unclean, and I will receive you; and I will be to you for a Father, and ye shall be to me for sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty"?

G.R.C. Yes, that is very comforting. As the footnote says, Jehovah in the Old Testament is the Father to us, in that setting. In another setting Christ is Jehovah -- Luke 2:11 -- while the Spirit also is Jehovah -- 2 Corinthians 3:18, but in that setting it is the Father, "I will be to you for a Father".

Ques. Can you bring all that into what you are presenting to us in Genesis?

G.R.C. Well, it bears on it because the principle of separation becomes stressed at this point in connection with Abraham. But then we ought to notice that Abraham did not move at once. In fact in Genesis 11:31 it speaks of it as though it was his father's move. "And Terah took Abram his son". They began to move and got as far as Haran. But then chapter 12 begins, "Jehovah had said to Abram"; we do not know quite how far back that went. Stephen says that they got as far as Charran and that after the death of his father he moved on. Scripture does not express approval or disapproval of Abraham being detained and not going all the way immediately, but what is clear is that it did not alter God's attitude. God bore with it. He has been very patient with us too in our exercises as to our associations. We have all gone on with these things. It is not only that certain brothers have but we all have because we are in the closest yoke. The fellowship of God's Son is the closest possible yoke and none of us can say,

'Well, that brother is in certain things but I am not', because we are all in it with him. If this exercise is right therefore, we all have to face this matter; we have all been slow as to it; and just as we see the patience of God with Abraham, where should we be without it? We should all be down on our faces about it because we have all been connected with sins of inadvertence for a long time. It is a most affecting thing that in Numbers 15, which would have recovery days in view especially, when a sin of inadvertence of the whole assembly of Israel came to light, the burnt-offering was to be brought first -- verse 24 -- with its oblation and its drink offering, showing that it had not altered their acceptance, nor had it altered God's attitude. God was regarding it as a sin of inadvertence. And so with us, all that Christ is, in the perfection of His Person and the glory of His work, is still the basis of everything -- God has gone on with us because of that. Then the sin-offering followed the burnt-offering, Leviticus 4 and 6. This shows that an individual sin of inadvertence involved eating the sin-offering, whereas the sin-offering for the whole assembly was to be burned outside the camp -- a most awful contemplation. I only bring that forward because it may help our outlook at the present time.

Rem. You have said, "If the present exercise is right". Why do you say that please?

G.R.C. Not that I personally have any doubt that questions current among us as believers are right, only that we should be concerned to look into things more for ourselves. It is not for one or two, or any number, to rule over people's faith. The apostle says, "Not that we rule over your faith, but are fellow-workmen

of your joy", 2 Corinthians 1:24. We can only put forward what we feel is right. We may have no doubt it is right but we put it forward so that the exercise may permeate the whole of the brethren and that we may all get before God and be unified in the unity of the faith in the matter. We are seeking to arrive at "the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man", Ephesians 4:13, and this is part of it. But then the apostle says, We are fellow-workmen of your joy -- because none of us naturally understands the way of joy. Naturally we have entirely wrong ideas as to how to reach joy, so that it is real hard work, as you might say, to help one another as to the real way of joy.

Ques. Is it instructive in Nehemiah, following all that comes out in chapter 8, and the arriving at joy, as you say, by the efforts of the fellow-workmen, that in chapter 9 when they call upon Jehovah as "the Same", they speak about this matter of Abram being called and then they say, "Thou ... broughtest him forth ... and foundest his heart faithful". Would that direct our attention to the fact that it is really God who brings matters forth in His faithfulness and patience and yet seeking to find our hearts faithful? The prayer to Jehovah comes in after the separation from the strangers in the beginning of the chapter.

G.R.C. It seems very instructive because that came in after the wall had been completed. It says in chapter 6: 15, "So the wall was finished ... And it came to pass that when all our enemies heard of it, all the nations that were about us were afraid and were much cast down in their own eyes, and they perceived that this work was wrought by our God".

So that the thing was completed; and then chapter 9 brings out what you are saying, and the great note of praise, and it is remarkable because what you refer to, "Thou art the Same, Jehovah Elohim, who didst choose Abram and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name Abraham", links with Genesis 17, the covenant of circumcision. Would you say more what you have in mind as to "broughtest him forth"?

Rem. I was thinking of what you were saying, that he was held up but that scripture does not say whether it approves or not; but in days of recovery they regard it as what God has done, that He has brought him forth and found his heart faithful.

G.R.C. So you think we can take comfort from the history of things, though we may appear to be slow, that God has been patient. He works patiently to overcome our slowness so that in the end we can say that He brought us forth. Is that what you had in mind?

Rem. Yes, and also that these persons had obviously been slow because at the beginning of chapter 9, although the wall was built, it says in verse 2, "The seed of Israel separated themselves from all foreigners, and stood and confessed their sins". Yet they had one man before them, Abraham, whom God had brought forth and whose heart had been faithful. So do you think we should give credit to one another that as to the general body of the brethren their hearts are faithful in regard of God?

G.R.C. That is just what I do feel, that the spirit of harshness is not suitable because for one thing we are all in it. The fellowship of God's Son is such a

close yoke that we cannot contract out, and therefore we need to be very sympathetic with those who are particularly affected, and as you say give them credit for being faithful towards God and doing the very best they can. Is that so?

Rem. That is what I had in mind.

Ques. You have referred to the patience of God in regard to this. Is it an encouragement to us to see that the first word in Hebrews 11 is that Abraham obeyed? Would you say that if we are patient with one another it will be likely to secure complete obedience on the part of all?

G.R.C. That is what I feel. If we take a harsh outlook, and say that certain ones have got to do certain things, we are really puffed up in our own mind, as a legal man always is. We may think that we are apart from this, and that we are doing great things in helping to purge the brethren; but then, those who take up an attitude like that would surely miss the gain of the whole exercise. We are all in it, and we have to move together patiently and dependently so that we are all brought into this matter of obedience in this respect. In Numbers 8, when the Levites were to be offered as a wave offering to Jehovah, they were all sprinkled with the water of separation, whether they had personally touched a dead body or not. That is, we all have to take this matter to heart for we are all in it.

Ques. Do you think that there is the opportunity for every believer in that way to be an overcomer? It is to the overcomer the word is "I will be to him God". If it becomes what is merely mutually agreed, there is not much overcoming for some of us; but if we all have our part in it, there is the grace afforded

for overcoming -- each one and all of us must be in it.

G.R.C. That is very helpful. That is the last word, as you might say, "He that overcomes shall inherit these things, and I will be to him God, and he shall be to me son", Revelation 21:7. And that is what we are on now as to the first part of it. God says to Abraham, "I will be God to thee", and so we can look upon Abraham our father as a sample of an overcomer. He did not do anything spectacular in one sense. He was held up apparently till his father died, and yet, how patient God is. There is never any room for pride on our part. If any one of us is an overcomer in any sense, he will feel that there is absolutely no ground for him to take any credit. It is God who brought us out as Mr. -- says.

Ques. Do we have this suggested in Philippians 2, the thought of complete obedience in verse 12, and then the working out -- as the margin says, "to work into result" -- "your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works" -- "internal operation of power", is the note -- "in you both the willing and the working according to his good pleasure"? Is that this purification worked out in priestly feelings to a divine result, having in mind especially our part in the service of God in holiness, and our place in the testimony here?

G.R.C. That is very helpful because that is the local company there, "Work out your own salvation". No doubt primarily the local company is in mind but I think we could rightly apply it in this universal setting, in connection with a universal exercise. We have got to work out our own salvation in this matter and God will work in us the willing and the doing if we are patient and wait on Him. But we have got to

work out our own salvation and this is a world-wide thing, is it not?

Rem. Yes. And the purification leads to joy, as seen in Philippians 4, as Paul says, "Rejoice in the Lord always: again I will say, Rejoice"; "The joy of Jehovah is your strength", Nehemiah 8:10. Does it suggest a definite objective before the saints, enabling us courageously in faith to go through the processing together. Is this purification in the crucible, do you think?

G.R.C. I do. It speaks, I think in Hezekiah's day, of the priests and the Levites having purified themselves, so that this process belongs to us all; and we are very slow to learn the way of joy. It was when the waterpots were filled to the brim with the water of purification that the water was turned to wine. That is spiritual joy.

Rem. It is interesting that in Hezekiah's day in 2 Chronicles 29:16, the priests went into the inner part of the house of Jehovah and carried forth all the uncleanness which they found in the temple of Jehovah, into the court of the house of Jehovah; and the Levites took it to carry it forth into the brook Kidron.

G.R.C. How are you applying that?

Rem. I feel it is one thing to get light about a matter, as to what is inconsistent with the house and the inner parts of it, but the final removal of it would be somewhat of a labour of patience, the Levites working at it. The priests determine the situation, but holy sensitiveness would be a wonderful way of arriving at what is unsuitable to God -- but that does not remove it. The removal comes on the part of the

Levites as from the court, persons prepared to labour.

G.R.C. That is very good; and it is finally dealt with in the brook Kidron.

Ques. Would you say a word about this question of the patience of God in relation to the fact that Abraham immediately obeys regarding circumcision, "in the self-same day"?

G.R.C. That is a matter in which Abraham is very commendable and I wonder whether the exercises we are speaking about now would all help us to act thus in connection with circumcision. In circumcision there is no thought of delay if this covenant is to be entered into, "I will be God to thee". How can God be God to anyone who puts any confidence in the flesh or gives it any recognition?

Rem. It is the attractiveness of God's promise.

G.R.C. Well that comes out in chapter 15. At the end of chapter 14 the Most High is introduced and, in the light of the Most High God, Abraham refuses everything of Sodom, from "a thread even to a sandal-thong". Abraham was strengthened by the manifestation of Melchisedec, the king of righteousness and king of peace, the priest of the Most High God. What a view, typically, of Christ as the King of Righteousness, the One who has established divine righteousness at all cost to Himself! Learning God as the Most High God is a great matter; it bears on the question of government as well as other things. God is Most High; He rules in the kingdoms of men but He is Most High too, in the sense of being worthy of the homage of our hearts. Abraham becomes separate now in the sense that he will accept nothing from the king of Sodom from a thread to a sandal-thong. He would not allow anyone to say that he had

made Abraham rich. He turns his back on the world when it approaches him; he had already gone out of it but here the world approached him. That happens, of course, now; the world approaches a believer. The world has benefited through believers, and the world approaches the believer to seduce him with all that it can offer. Abraham is superior to all that. And then he has the manifestation in a vision through the word of Jehovah, "I am thy shield". What do we need with human shields? Men would say they need trade unions as a shield; God says to Abraham, "I am thy shield". Then men have their unions and associations in order to get adequate rewards, but God says, "I am ... thy exceeding great reward". The world approaches us, and tells us what advantages there would be in organisation and association -- what a shield, what a reward we should get! When the world approaches Abraham he says No! to it all and then God manifests Himself and says, "I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward".

Ques. Is there something akin to this in Paul's doxology in 1 Timothy, "the King of the ages, the incorruptible, invisible, only God"? Is there something of the mystery implied in Melchisedec's appearance at this juncture and Abram lifting up his hand in incorruptibility to God?

G.R.C. Very good. "The blessed and only Ruler", you are thinking about; the Most High who rules in the kingdoms of men. Of course in Timothy there is greater fulness but there is the same idea, the blessed and only Ruler. Think of lifting up our hands to God thus; then think of the grace that would lead Him to say, "I am thy shield, thy exceeding great reward". Whatever the world can offer us is

just temporary; and whatever we possess here is not our own, it belongs to another. According to Luke 16 we only have temporary use of it. But "I am ... thy exceeding great reward"; there we get our eternal heritage, God Himself. What a thing this is to have God Himself as our portion!

Ques. What about Abraham's sons and daughters?

G.R.C. It is the sons and daughters of Abraham to whom God says really, I will be a Father to you and ye shall be my sons and daughters. God takes us on, as it says in Galatians 3:7, "They that are on the principle of faith, these are Abraham's sons".

Ques. Does what Jehovah says to Abraham at the beginning of Genesis 15 link on with his own light as to the Most High God being the Possessor of heavens and earth? If there is this light in our souls, shall we more readily respond to what God is Himself as our Shield and exceeding great Reward? I was thinking of the link between that and "Lord of the heaven and the earth" of Matthew 11.

G.R.C. Yes, it is very precious that God is the Possessor. What cannot He give in a material way? He is not dependent on anyone but Himself, is He? He gave Abraham much in a material way. He became a rich man but at the height of his riches he was still known as a sojourner and stranger and that is what the man who knows God is. In chapter 21 King Abimelech recognised that Abraham was still a sojourner and still a stranger; if God has trusted him with possessions it did not alter that a bit, he was still a separate man.

Ques. God could not use these words to Lot, could He, although he is called a righteous man? Had he not shielded himself behind the world and so missed

the greatest blessing of all -- God Himself as shield?

G.R.C. Surely we should all desire "I am thy shield, thy exceeding great reward" to be said to us! It makes us completely independent, in that sense, of the world's system. Then what Abraham is concerned about is spiritual advancement; he is not concerned about earthly advancement, and God tells him to look toward the heavens so that the heavenly seed comes into view at this point. The earthly seed had been referred to in chapter 13 but now the heavenly seed is introduced for the first time and in that setting it says, "he believed Jehovah; and he reckoned it to him as righteousness". I wonder if I am right in saying that it is the heavenly seed, the saints of this period, who really understand justification. We are justified in Christ, as it says in the New Testament; it links on with the heavenly seed in a particular way. Those who have earthly blessing will need to know that their sins and iniquities are remembered no more, but the heavenly seed have this wonderful foundational status before God as justified in Christ.

I think we ought to consider now the covenant of circumcision because it is so important. We have spoken of the promises being contingent upon the obedience of faith, that is persons receiving the covenants of promise; and now if God is to be God to us circumcision is a necessity; it is on this principle that God commits Himself unreservedly to a man -- and, of course, by extension to a company -- but what is stressed in Abraham's history is his relations with God, personally and household wise.

Ques. Do you think there is progress in the relations which you were just referring to? To begin with, "God had said"; and then, "The word of Jehovah

came to Abraham in a vision"; but now in this supreme matter of circumcision, Jehovah appears.

G.R.C. That is remarkable. With a vision there seems to be some distance but here it says, "Jehovah appeared to Abraham, and said to him, I am the Almighty God [El]: walk before my face, and be perfect". How can we walk before God's face? It would appear in this setting that if God is to be God to a person, it must be to one who walks before His face and is perfect.

Ques. Does not Paul illustrate the truths of which you have been speaking and our practical arrival at the truth of circumcision, so that God is God to us?

G.R.C. So that if he could say, "We are the circumcision" -- and it is certain that Paul had taken this up personally -- then he can speak in a manner to bring all the saints into it; it would be a challenge to them whether they answered to what he said, for he describes who the circumcision are. "We are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and boast in Christ Jesus, and do not trust in flesh", Philippians 3:3. Then he says, "My God", Philippians 4:19. God was God to Paul; there was a circumcised man but then he would bring the saints into that, "To our God and Father".

Ques. Does the way that God left off talking with Abraham and then that God went up from him show that God had pleasure in being Abraham's God in this relation, and how Abraham is honoured as entering into the covenant?

G.R.C. That is what I thought. On these lines relations between God and man become very personal; it is what God desired, personal relations with man; and He secured it with Abraham who is called the "Friend

of God". God was securing personal relations with this man, who is the father of us all, with a view to us all having them; and the proposal is: "I will be ... God to thee". Now how many of us can really, from the heart and without pretension, say "My God"?

Ques. Does the change of name from Abram to Abraham come in just at that point as connected with circumcision? His relations are to be on a more dignified plane.

G.R.C. Yes, I think so. The change of Abraham's name from 'High father' to 'Father of a multitude' shows how he was qualified to be the father of a multitude; this is the kind of seed which God is looking for -- a seed who accept circumcision. So that He is their God and they are His people. But I would like to ask again, how many of us can honestly and properly use the title, "My God"? It is only a circumcised man who can do this properly.

Ques. Must the Spirit come in there, circumcision linking with our liberty with the Spirit, thus finding liberty with God?

G.R.C. That is a great point: we are the circumcision who worship, or serve, by the Spirit of God. So that this covenant would mean for us that we are fully committed to God in the Spirit; that we have no confidence in the flesh; so we are committed to walk no longer according to the flesh; it is a definite committal. It says in verse 4, "As for me", the note says; that is God's side and He enumerates what He would be to Abraham but then He says in verse 9, "As for thee"; that is Abraham's side. "As for thee, thou shalt keep my covenant, thou and thy seed after thee in their generations. This is my covenant which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after

thee, that every male among you be circumcised". Now as I understand it, it means a definite committal to God relative to the Spirit, that I am to be henceforth wholly committed to the Spirit, in contrast to the flesh. The Spirit is here and the point is that we "do not walk according to the flesh, but according to Spirit", Romans 8:4, it is put upon us. The negative is put first; it involves definiteness and committal -- circumcision. In taking this up we prove the almighty power of God. We tend to link the Almightiness of God with circumstances. Now it does bear on circumstances as we have already been reminded in 2 Corinthians 6, "I will be to you for a Father ... saith the Lord Almighty". But the way Abraham learned the Almightiness of God was in his own body; and I believe why we cannot trust God as to circumstances is that we have not accepted the truth of circumcision, and proved the Almightiness of God in the Spirit in our own selves in dealing with the matter of sin in the flesh.

Rem. In "The Signs of the Covenant" published some years ago, it was remarked that distinct progress was indicated in that the sign of the covenant with Noah was in the cloud, whereas here it is in a man's body.

G.R.C. That is just it. The sign of this covenant for us is that you see a man who is walking wholly according to the Spirit. He may have lapses as Abraham did, for we all often offend -- not that I am making any excuses for that -- but what distinguishes such a one is that characteristically he is walking, and acting, in the Spirit, and has no confidence in the flesh; and that man can say, "My God". And he proves the Almightiness of God in himself; that is

where we need to learn that God is Almighty. The question of sin in the flesh holds us all up and is the root of our going into earthly associations. What is required is not only outward separation; what we have here is what we might call inward separation, that we separate between the flesh and the Spirit, and are committed to the Spirit; and in so doing we prove in ourselves that God is Almighty. Abraham proved in his body that God was Almighty; we prove it in ourselves.

Ques. So in Joshua 5 the reproach of Egypt is rolled away at this particular point, and it is connected with the idea of circumcised "the second time". Does it mean that what we may understand in the teaching of it is not sufficient in itself but must have its application in spiritual power and authority?

G.R.C. That is very good. You are thinking that the first application would be more the teaching of it?

Rem. Yes, I am thinking of that.

G.R.C. "Make thee stone knives". I do feel the importance of the fact that we learn the Almightiness of God through the gift of the Spirit. We are to learn it in ourselves. Scripture speaks of being "strengthened with all power according to the might of his glory", Colossians 1:11. Who does that? The Spirit. The Father strengthens us with might by His Spirit in the inner man. We are to know what might is in ourselves, by the gift of the Spirit; and if I have learned that God is Almighty in that way, surely I can trust Him for circumstances.

Ques. Would the evidence of that be seen in our instinctive movements, when we do not have time to take thought, or premeditate action?

G.R.C. Well it does, but then there is the deliberative

side of things in a covenant; we deliberately commit ourselves to God relative to the Holy Spirit.

Rem. I was thinking of your thought that we learn it in our beings. The evidence of that would be that we would act spiritually, instinctively.

G.R.C. Well, quite so.

FOURTH READING

Exodus 24:4 - 8; Hebrews 9:11 - 15, 19 - 21; Hebrews 10:19 - 22; Hebrews 13:10 - 16

G.R.C. The theme this afternoon is the blood of the covenant so that we may get an impression of all that rests upon, and flows from, the precious death of Christ. It will be noticed that the blood is referred to in every passage we have read, and while in Exodus 24 the old covenant literally is in mind, we have to treat scriptures relating to the old covenant in two ways -- on the one hand as contrast, and the other, as type. The remarkable thing is that in giving the old covenant, which could be in itself only a ministry of death and condemnation, God gave in powerful type a setting forth of the great results which would flow from the death of Christ, particularly the heavenly things; not exactly foreshadowing the new covenant with Israel, but foreshadowing the heavenly things, and what God would introduce us into in the power of the blood of Christ in this dispensation. So in Exodus 24 we have to look beyond the old covenant to see what is typified in it; that is, that if God was to make a covenant with a people, it could only rest upon the sure foundation of burnt-offerings and sacrifices of peace-offering. It had to rest typically upon the death of Christ, and in this passage there was the appreciation of that typically in the people, as represented by the youths of the children of Israel. It says, "They offered up burnt-offerings, and sacrificed sacrifices of peace-offering of bullocks

to Jehovah", and it is the blood of those offerings which is the blood of the covenant. We can leave what it may mean as the basis of the old covenant, although we should remember the solemnity of it, that it was confirmed in this way by blood; but we see in the anti-type that in the blood of the covenant God has laid a basis for being faithful to all His commitments. All His commitments rest upon this foundation; and whether we think of the promise of life, or the covenants of promise, which we have already looked at, or even the covenant with Noah, all were to rest on this foundation; and these covenants find a climax in a covenant which has in view God dwelling: that is the point here. The prominent thought in Genesis is blessing; men feel the need of blessing, if they are exercised; but we would never have thought of God dwelling with us; that originates with God. It is the desire of God's heart to dwell with men. This was the great point in view in God having personal dealings with men, as He had at the beginning with Adam as we have noticed. His personal interests in, and affection for, man had in view that He would dwell with the objects of His heart's affections. But then if God is to dwell, it must be in conditions entirely according to His specification -- not according to any standard of ours, but His. And the achievement of that specification rests solidly on the basis of the precious blood of Christ. So here we have the blood of the covenant as the basis; I do not mean simply in this scripture, but in the others we have also read we find that the blood of the covenant is the basis upon which God carries out everything. Whether the promise of life, the covenant with Noah or the covenants of promise, or this

great proposal to dwell, all rests upon this immutable footing. It should draw out our affections to Christ in a most remarkable way as we think of the blood of the covenant, and of the One whose blood alone it could be. As we think too of the committal it involved on God's part to carry this through, it should magnify the God who is true to all His commitments; even though this must be the basis, at such a cost, He carries out every commitment.

Rem. The sanctifying power, and the glory of the system of blessing, would be in the value of the blood, would it not? It rests immutably upon the preciousness and efficacy of the blood of Jesus. In its full result among us, whether it is individual or assemblywise, it is to have its sanctifying power.

G.R.C. That is why I suggested reading also Hebrews 13 in addition to other passages, "that he might sanctify the people by his own blood". This great truth is to have a very sanctifying effect, and what is in mind in that passage is practical sanctification. Earlier in the book -- chapter 10: 10 -- you get sanctification from the divine side; there it says "we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" -- and that sanctification is complete. But then chapter 13 is dealing with practical matters, and it is couched in language intended to touch our innermost chords -- "that he might sanctify the people by his own blood".

Ques. Would you say that the death of Christ, as rightly apprehended and appreciated in this way, would tend to liberty and moral power in our souls, enabling us to do things? Immediately following on this it says, "Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up; and they saw

the God of Israel", Exodus 24:9, 10. Is that based on the covenant?

G.R.C. Yes, that is right; that is what it has in view particularly for us, as Hebrews indicates. The blood has opened up to us the heavenlies; it is not just a question of our being brought into the new covenant. This covenant is not made with us in its literality; but Hebrews shows that while the blood of the covenant is the basis of the covenant yet to be made with Israel, for us it has opened up something far greater, and which was typified in the old covenant by the tabernacle system, that is the heavenlies. But then in addition to the full thought thus, what you are saying about liberty is seen in the youths. If the truth as to the blood of the covenant and the value of Christ's death is apprehended in any measure, it will set the young men free, and the young women too. The service at Pentecost began with young people -- twelve young men. Peter may have been getting on towards middle-age, but it did not begin with elderly persons. That has to be noted, that where things are right and the truth rightly apprehended, all the young people are free and they are really in it; God helps them, so that they bring bullocks.

Ques. Is there something significant in the fact that it is the blood which is sprinkled on the people, concerning which Moses said, "Behold the blood of the covenant"? I was wondering whether it was in accord with your own thoughts as to the practical effect?

G.R.C. I wondered whether sprinkling carried the idea that the real force of the thing is brought home to the persons.

Rem. The blood sprinkled on the altar needs no

qualification, does it? The blood and the altar are in complete agreement; but when it comes to the blood upon the people, is it not intended that the full force should be brought to bear upon us?

G.R.C. I hope that will be one effect of this reading, that the force of the sprinkling of the blood may come home to us.

Ques. Would Psalm 148 suggest that something of the freshness which marked the beginning will also mark the end? "Both young men and maidens, old men with youths -- Let them praise the name of Jehovah".

G.R.C. That is very good; Psalm 148 is approaching the climax of praise, is it not?

Rem. Yes; I wondered if being at the end of the books of Psalms, it may be expected in our day as we approach the end.

G.R.C. Would it not show, among other things, that young persons should hold themselves available for service at any time. The Lord's Supper is not the time to wait for the elders first, but to be available to the Spirit at any time. In the Care Meeting it is right to wait for the elders first. The Care Meeting is an elders' meeting; although all are there it is an elders' meeting in character. But at the Lord's Supper it is not for young people to hold back for their elders to take part first, nor even to think that they cannot take part at the close in the higher levels of the service; they should be available at all points of the service. God will help them to bring bullocks. You may say, 'How could these youths have bullocks?' But they did have them.

Rem. "Know that our brother Timotheus is set at liberty", Hebrews 12:23. That immediately follows

the allusion to the Great Shepherd of the sheep, in the power of the blood of the eternal covenant; and then there is the doxology, "to whom be glory for the ages of ages, Amen". Is that what might be connected with Timotheus, though youthful?

G.R.C. I think that is very good, because we can think of Timotheus and Paul together at the Lord's Supper; I have no doubt whatever that Timotheus, even though Paul were present, would be quite free to give thanks for the emblems, and quite free to take part at any time in the meeting.

Rem. In Psalm 148, which has been referred to, the concluding verse refers to "a people near unto him".

G.R.C. Quite so; that is the great end in view, is it not, for God to have men in the nearest possible relation? It says, "We have been made nigh by the blood of the Christ".

Ques. Is there something akin in Psalm 144? "That our sons may be as plants grown up in their youth; our daughters as corner-columns, sculptured after the fashion of a palace ..". and then it says, "Blessed the people that is in such a case! Blessed the people whose God is Jehovah!"

G.R.C. That is very fine, because that is the point in this covenant -- God would have a people to whom He is God. We have spoken of personal relations in Abraham; but now it is a question of God's house, God's dwelling, and for that He needs a people, whose God He is. What you are saying about the young people is good; it seems to give the daughters a very unique place. I do not know how you would apply that scripture.

Rem. They are not cast in a concrete mould are they? They are sculptured after the fashion of a

palace; dignity marks them. They go on together, and of them together it is said, "whose God is Jehovah".

G.R.C. It is a wonderful thing, because the sisters particularly set out the subjective side of the truth -- not that it should be absent in the brothers, the brothers also should set it out -- but sisters are particularly those in whom it is expressed. They clothe themselves with good works, and their moral features of beauty shine in the assembly even when we are assembled.

Rem. At Pentecost Joel is referred to, "Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy".

G.R.C. That is very good, because it shows that sisters are to have part in prophecy in their own sphere. "Your sons and your daughters" is to encourage our side of it, but, "My bondmen and bondwomen" shows how God takes them on. Without being committed to God in bondmanship, how can He use us in prophecy? Sisters need to be committed just as much as brothers.

Ques. Do you think that there is something of this carried into the courses under David? The sons of Heman, and also the daughters; and then the words of God to exalt His power; then the courses -- the teacher with the scholar. Would there be something of this great principle, inaugurated by Moses, carried through into the service under David?

G.R.C. Yes, 1 Chronicles 25 is very instructive, and it is remarkable that the daughters are brought in with Heman, who seems to bring in the top note; he was the king's seer in the words of God to exalt His power, which seems an extraordinary expression involving prophecy; and it was that man whose daughters are mentioned. "All these were under the

direction of their fathers" -- marked by true subjection.

Rem. There seems to be a certain constitution before the courses are outlined or formally recognised. There is what is constitutional in these households, is there not? And they are under the direction of their fathers, Asaph, Jeduthun and Heman, for song in the house of Jehovah. Would it not speak of things working out locally under a good spiritual lead?

G.R.C. Overall, in that verse -- verse 7 -- they are under the direction of the king, typically Christ; and, as you say, they serve by lot according to divine sovereignty, the small as well as the great, and the teacher with the scholar; there is no question of waiting on elders there; all were to come in according to divine sovereignty.

Ques. Does the reference to the youths being sent show that the basic matter of obedience is carried forward in this?

G.R.C. That is very good -- the obedience of faith; and really it needs faith to take part truly.

Rem. There was great spontaneity connected with bringing up the ark, and plenty of energy; but when we come to the full position we need regulation, and to serve under direction, do we not?

G.R.C. So David could dance before the ark with all his might when it was brought up, and at every few paces they offered; but as you say, as together in assembly service direction is essential. Everything is ordered under the impulse of Christ as Head.

Ques. Would you say what this sprinkling in Exodus 24 involves for us? I am thinking of Peter's first epistle, "by sanctification of the Spirit unto the obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ". That has a distinct reference to Exodus 24,

has it not? Would it suggest God asserting His claims over us in view of securing us for His own dwelling?

G.R.C. It has the priesthood in mind, and the youths were taking the matter up, although the official priesthood was not appointed. I believe those early verses of Peter have that in mind. I think there it is the blood of the ram of consecration which is primarily in view -- that we are sprinkled with it, meaning obedience in relation to the service of God.

Ques. Is it instructive that the gospel writer who speaks of the blood is the disciple whom Jesus loved?

G.R.C. Well, it is. He alone of the gospel writers speaks of the blood from Christ's side on the cross; he also speaks of it in the book of Revelation and in his epistle, as well as in the gospel.

Ques. Would you say something about the dividing of the blood? Half the blood was put in basons and half was sprinkled on the altar. I do not know whether it would be right to say that God is seeking -- and will get -- a response in the saints which is commensurate with the offering of Christ.

G.R.C. You mean that the two halves are equal?

Rem. Yes, and nothing will lapse in the final result of that for which Christ gave Himself.

G.R.C. That is very good, so that it supposes a full result in the people. Hebrews brings out very clearly that the primary thing in the heart of God was the heavenlies and the heavenly saints of this dispensation. That was the primary thing in His mind, and has been so from before the world; so that we see in the heavenly seed of Abraham, and now in the tabernacle system, a figurative representation of heavenly things. It is a marvellous thing that God should bring that in alongside the old covenant; that He should fill the

old covenant, which was in itself a ministry of death and condemnation, with figurative representations of things in the heavens; because that was what was in His mind and heart. So Exodus and Leviticus form a most instructive section of scripture in that respect.

Ques. Is it that God was really unfolding Christianity? These things were written for our learning.

G.R.C. That is a very helpful way of putting it -- that God was unfolding Christianity in Exodus and Leviticus. Who would have thought of such a thing? It was not understood at the time; they were not able to look on to the end, it says. The old covenant was to be annulled; the objective in view in giving it was the heavenly things. Israel, even until today, have never been able to look on to the end of it. We can. We can see that it is a setting out in type of Christianity.

Rem. "As it were the form of heaven for clearness", Exodus 24:10, is suggestive of the incarnation, and the pavement under his feet, and then they go beyond the thought of Israel, and they saw God and ate and drank. Is it not right to think that typically that is the full thought of God reached just in the way that you have been bringing before us?

G.R.C. Well, I think perhaps that may be right. So you think the body of heaven in its clearness is a reference to the incarnation?

Rem. Yes, I thought that was why at the end of that section we are able to go beyond the God of Israel, and to reach the full thought of God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

G.R.C. It is certain that the full thought of God as revealed could never be reached under the old covenant, nor in Israel -- even in Israel under the new

covenant. Israel could not apprehend what God intended men to apprehend. It is reached only in Christianity, so it is the fruit of the incarnation; and we are to be filled with the full knowledge of God's will, and to grow by the true -- or full -- knowledge of God. That is our privilege -- the full knowledge of God.

Ques. Christ has entered in by His own blood. Is that power?

G.R.C. The preposition used is 'dia' -- instrumentality. It is not by the blood of goats and bulls, but, by His own blood He has entered in. It is the great basis; but for power we need the Spirit; the blood gives us power in the sense of title, I suppose, but what we usually speak of as power would involve the Spirit. The stress is on the blood in Hebrews 9:14.

Ques. Would you say a word on verse 14, "Christ, who by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God"?

G.R.C. I think it should affect us very much. At the time of the birth of Christ Gabriel says to Mary, "The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and power of the Highest overshadow thee, wherefore the holy thing also which shall be born shall be called Son of God", Luke 1:35. What a part the Holy Spirit had in the preparation of that body -- "a body hast thou prepared me"! What deep feelings would enter into that, surely, on the part of the Holy Spirit! The incarnation, which had been looked on to from eternity, was about to take place; and the Spirit charges Himself with that side of the matter -- the preparation of the body. It was an event of such magnitude that I do not think we can call anything greater; there are other great events, such as the death of Christ, which we

would not say are any less; but it is difficult to think of anything greater than the incarnation; and the Holy Spirit entered into the matter. Then the Spirit's descent in love, as the Lord arrives at the full Levitical age in service, and in fulness of Manhood there, affords to God in full expression every feature delightful to Him. Then think of the feelings that entered into this, when it comes to the death of Christ. The body was prepared in view of this, "Sacrifice and offering thou willedst not; but thou hast prepared me a body", Hebrews 10:5. He "by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God", Hebrews 9:14. How we would like to enter in some measure into the feelings of the Holy Spirit! What a transaction this was! There is nothing greater than this; He was doing what He primarily came to do, to lay this great foundation, for God to carry through everything that He had committed Himself to in purpose and in promise. Everything was to be fulfilled on this basis.

Ques. Would you confine the bearing of "offered himself" to His death alone?

G.R.C. It is the priestly side of it -- He offered Himself. What would you say?

Rem. I was just wanting clarification of it.

G.R.C. Had you thought of extending it in any way?

Rem. Well, I wondered whether the eternal Spirit being brought in indicated that in the whole of Christ's path He had this sacrificial measure before Him, culminating in the actual offering?

G.R.C. I think it is true that this was before Him, even as coming into the world. So that this great climax would ever be before Him, and every step was trodden with dignity in view of it. I also wonder

whether the reference to the eternal Spirit in this great High-Priestly action of Christ, in offering Himself, is to indicate how the system is to work. If it has been founded on the High Priest "by the eternal Spirit" offering Himself; then surely every offering that is offered in the system must be by the eternal Spirit.

Ques. Would you say that this matter of the blood of Christ is particularly to purify from everything which pertains to the natural man -- purifying the service of God from everything which has to do with the first order? It came in when the blood of Christ was shed; so that everything now which has to do with the service of God in His house is by the Spirit, connected with a new order of man.

G.R.C. That is just what I had in mind, so that the word purifying is brought in here. "If the blood of goats and bulls, and a heifer's ashes sprinkling the defiled, sanctifies for the purity of the flesh, how much rather shall the blood of the Christ ... purify your conscience from dead works" -- not simply from sins. Dead works would be the whole incubus of religious flesh in its activities -- all that comes from that man religiously. We are to be completely clear of it; and this brings up the point as to why purification and sanctification are the words used in Hebrews, and not justification. Justification is in Romans; but when it comes to a question of drawing near to God, and God dwelling among His people, the essential things are sanctification and purification. Justification relates to my need, and God comes out to meet me where I am; and if we use the type of Adam and his wife, He would clothe my nakedness with clothing of His own providing; we are justified in Christ. But when it comes to the question of approach to God,

and God dwelling, God's nature requires purity and sanctity; and so the death of Christ is viewed in Hebrews as that by which we are sanctified -- that is, made fit to approach God. His dealing with the sin question is called purification, "having made by himself the purification of sins". It is viewing things from the standpoint of the divine nature.

Rem. Conscience is mentioned, both in Hebrews chapter 9 and also in chapter 10. Is a purified conscience the basis for our entrance in view of worship?

G.R.C. I think we need to be conscious of being purified, otherwise we are not free in the presence of God; it becomes a matter of conscience if you are drawing near to God. If you are thinking of judgment, it becomes a matter of conscience -- to be sure you are justified. The red heifer -- as well as the day of atonement -- is in mind here in the blood of goats and bulls, and a heifer's ashes sprinkling the defiled. But the sprinkling is again to bring home the force of the fact that the death of Christ, from the divine side, has purified us. It is not so much practical purification that is in mind in the first instance, but to bring home to our souls that from the divine side the death of Christ is fully efficacious. It is not only for justification, but for sanctification and purification.

Ques. Is that why it is blood and not water?

G.R.C. Quite so; it is blood particularly for the conscience, I suppose, although the water is implied in the heifer's ashes -- the water of purification; but the main point is the blood, because it is the blood which is needed for the conscience: the blood assures us that from the divine side everything has been done.

Ques. Is that why we have the reference to the blood of the Beloved in Ephesians 1 -- the sacrificial

basis on which the purposes of love can be carried into effect?

G.R.C. I think that is so. So that in the references to the highest truth as to God's purpose in Ephesians 1 we have, "the Beloved; in whom we have redemption, through his blood, the forgiveness of offences" -- a wonderful thing that it should come in there. We are at the centre of the system there; we are in the presence of the Ark, and He is viewed as the Beloved.

Ques. Could you help us as to why it is the blood of "the Christ" here, whereas when in chapter 10 it is a matter of access to the holiest it is the blood of Jesus? There would be some difference, I expect, in the titles?

G.R.C. Do you not think He is viewed here in His official capacity, as the High Priest of the system? It says, "But Christ being come high priest of the good things to come"; and the Christ, the Anointed, is the Prophet, Priest and King. The title "the Christ" includes every office, but the office in mind here is the High-Priestly office. It is His High-Priestly offering which inaugurates the whole system; and I believe that it is most important for everyone to see this. It is said in Hebrews 8:3, "For every high priest is constituted for the offering both of gifts and sacrifices; whence it is needful that this one also should have something which he may offer". We have the High Priest of the good things to come, and it was necessary that He should have something to offer. But chapters 9 and 10 show what it was which He had to offer. I believe that it is of vast importance to see that what is in mind in chapter 8 is developed in chapters 9 and 10. What He had to offer was Himself; it is not a question of what comes afterwards

when we come into priestly service under His direction. That is not the point. It is the question of the inaugural offering of the whole system; and as having come High Priest of this vast system, what could He offer? What would be adequate for this? Only Himself -- there was nothing else that would be adequate! I think that that is the point of chapter 9; it is the great High-Priestly offering of Christ, who by the Eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God. This it is which inaugurates the system. In chapter 10 it is our boldness to go in, and it is by the blood of Jesus -- the personal Name -- suggesting the personal affections, that which would most attract the heart. What do you say?

Rem. So that the blood of the Christ would be somewhat in relation to the sprinkling, but the blood of Jesus in relation to the new and living way, the line of affection.

G.R.C. Exactly; what a new and living way it is when the heart is enraptured with Jesus! And it is the blood of Jesus, the One in whose face the glory of God shines; the One whom Stephen saw -- the glory of God in Jesus. But think of His blood -- He is now the centre of glory! So it is the blood of Jesus, and the new and living way which He has dedicated for us through the veil, that is to say His flesh.

Rem. I was wondering whether Luke's gospel does not emphasise this? The offering of Himself; the Victim thought is not found there; there is no forsaking in Luke is there? There is in Matthew and Mark, where it would be the inauguration of the system. Does not even the Lord's utterance, "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" give some clue to the greatness of what has been established in the way of

approach -- the new and living way was being opened.

G.R.C. One has thought that the veil rent in the midst is in view of approach; and the veil rent from top to bottom -- God coming out. But in Luke the veil was rent in the midst -- the High Priest of good things to come offered Himself. Is that right?

Rem. Yes, quite so.

Ques. Could I ask whether you had in mind that what we are considering should help us in our general approach to God daily, rather than specifically on collective occasions?

G.R.C. The holiest is open to us at all times; serving the living God in Hebrews 9 would include, and might specially have in mind, the Christian service Godward. It is the service in full activity, because I think that, although translated "worship", the word used is "priestly service". Of course it applies to individuals, but the full service is in mind there; but here in Hebrews 10:19 approach is open to us at all times. Of course what we enjoy individually we enjoy more when together, but according to that passage -- the assembling comes after -- "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together", Hebrews 10:25. No one who frequents the holiest will forsake the assembly, because he gets more there than he does alone; but what we can get individually and in our household devotions by entering the holiest, is unspeakably blessed.

Rem. I wondered whether we need to be a little more clear that through the blood of Christ, and by the Spirit too, we can really enter the heavenly realm at any time.

G.R.C. Well that is the truth; the way into the holy of holies is now made manifest and it is touching that

the blood comes in in connection with this. This is a most precious thought of the blood -- "Having therefore, brethren, boldness for entering into the holy of holies by the blood of Jesus, the new and living way which he has dedicated for us". Think of what He has dedicated! How it would lead us to dedicate ourselves! -- "through the veil, that is, his flesh", so we have two things -- we have boldness through His blood, and we have a great Priest over the house of God. We have Him, living in the presence of God, with all our names upon His heart, and all our names upon His shoulders, appearing before the face of God for us to support us there. His support in the wilderness at the throne of grace is to ensure that whatever the pressure we shall not fail to enter the holiest. The throne of grace is in view of our entering the holiest; it is not merely in view of relief and going on with things here. The throne of grace is there to ensure that whatever the pressure, and whatever the circumstances, there is abounding mercy and abounding grace available to ensure that at all times we shall be free to enter the holiest.

Rem. And is that not on the basis of attraction? "Which he has dedicated for us". I was comparing it with chapter 9, "offering himself to God"; but the dedication is for us, is it not? Therefore by attraction we would desire to be in the gain of that.

G.R.C. I am sure we would. It is affecting -- "dedicated for us". There is what He has done for God, and there is also what He has done for us. Then should we not be attracted into the holiest because God is there? What we are thinking of in these readings is God; and in the holiest we are in the immediate presence of God and God's great desire

is to have men there; it is a question of man's relations with God. And God has brought in a system where men are in the closest possible nearness to Himself. Our place is within the veil; No other family will be within the veil; no angels will be there -- only believers of this dispensation!

Rem. That is what I really had in mind, that in chapter 9, "offering himself without spot to God", the whole position is opened up to us so that we can be in the presence of God; and then He has "dedicated for us" the way in.

G.R.C. I do not know anything more attractive than to be in the presence of God Himself. "As the hart panteth after the water-brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God [El]: when shall I come and appear before God?", Psalm 42. How far behind the psalmist we may be! But if that was the language of our hearts we should be in the holiest whenever we had the opportunity. "When shall I come and appear before God?" God, is in full display in a Man -- that is the primary thing. How the presence of God should attract our hearts! We see two things in the holiest -- I am not trying to limit it -- one is God in full display in a Man, and the other is perfect Manhood in response to God. God is in full display in a Man, and what can attract my heart more than that? In Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily; in the holiest we are in the presence of that.

Rem. Does the fact that, although the holiest is mentioned in Ezekiel yet Ezekiel himself never goes in, bear out what you are saying as to the greatness of the privilege which is ours in this dispensation?

G.R.C. Yes. I am sure it does.

Rem. In these verses 19 to 22 we have our qualification, so that we can at all times, from God's side, enter the holiest.

G.R.C. That is important; the qualifications belong to every true believer, even one newly converted. So first we have two things -- we have boldness through the blood, and we have a great Priest over the house of God. It is not exactly that we go in to contemplate the Priest, although He is a great contemplation as Priest. That is His office, and He is a great contemplation as having the breastplate, the shoulder-pieces and the high turban. But He is there to support us, in order that we may be able to contemplate Him as the effulgence of God's glory and the expression of His substance. God is in full display in a Man; and Christ as Priest holds that office with a view to supporting us in such a manner that we can take account of Him as the effulgence of God's glory.

Ques. Is it interesting now to see that in verse 25 the thought of assembling of ourselves together comes in?

G.R.C. Yes, because no one would forsake the assembling if he had frequented the holiest. What a place it is for us to enter to see the power and glory of God in the sanctuary displayed in Christ!

Rem. So there is something infinitely greater for us to behold as assembling together than ever we have seen as individuals.

G.R.C. Well it is the same thing we see, but we have the benefit of other's impressions when we are together. Whatever we see individually is much enhanced in the assembly, so that we would never forsake our assembling together.

Rem. So what we have experienced as individuals

in the holiest, in the presence of God, we would bring forward into our assemblings together?

G.R.C. That is just what I thought. Then what Mr. -- was saying has to be taken account of -- that the qualifications are a true heart and full assurance of faith: they belong to the simplest believer who is maintained in the faith of the gospel, in living active faith; and there will be unbounded confidence in the Person and work of Christ -- that is full assurance of faith. The boldness here is a thing which should mark us all as having unbounded confidence. It is a slight upon Christ and His work if we are not bold to enter the holiest.

Rem. Is it not important to see that in the old dispensation there were certain defects which hindered or prevented a person or priest from entering into the holiest? He could go so far, but not into the holiest. Whereas the presence of the glory of the Person of Jesus, and the value of His blood in the presence of God, assure every one of our hearts that the way is open on a moral basis which is certain.

G.R.C. That is right. So it is right to be bold in this way; it is not presumption, it is confidence in Christ and in His precious blood.

Ques. Would you get a fresh view of the blood every time you went into the holiest?

G.R.C. I have no doubt as to that. And you go into the holiest and come out to serve. We are not exactly detained at the altars on the way in, except to recall what Christ has done. It is Christ's service which takes us in -- not our service. It is Christ's offering which takes us in; nothing we could offer could ever take us in; so this book shows that He has passed through the heavens, and we are to pass

through into God's presence. We are to go right through in the power of what He has effected at the altars -- to go right through into the presence of God. And then we come out to serve, and one of the services of the priests, the sons of Aaron, was to present the blood. That is, they were not thinking of what the blood was for them, but what it was to God. It is inside, in the presence of God, that we get the proper bearing of everything in view of service. We get God's outlook, and in some measure God's appreciation of everything; and now we are equipped as priests to serve at the altar.

Rem. In this book there are two privileges open to us -- the one is to go outside the camp, and the other to go inside the veil.

G.R.C. That brings us to chapter 13. It is a most affecting passage. It begins with the fellowship -- we have an altar. Fellowship is properly linked with the altar. It is a question of communion with the altar. The altar is the place where we eat; every clean person could eat the peace offering; and the priests had other food at the altar. "We have an altar of which they have no right to eat who serve the tabernacle"; then it goes on to speak of how the Lord Jesus suffered without the gate. It should greatly touch our affections that the One who is now the centre of a whole system of glory was once outside the pale of everything connected with God, as we might say: outside the camp He suffered, and was even forsaken of God. He went into the darkness and into distance, beyond anything a creature could measure; that very One who is in the centre of glory has been right outside for us. And we would never have had any access if He had not been right outside. The efficacy

of the blood which was taken in and put on the mercy seat was dependent upon the body of the victim being burned outside the camp.

Ques. Are we to understand that the only blood taken into the holiest is that of the sin offering?

G.R.C. Yes.

Rem. So it would save us from taking advantage of the blood on the mercy-seat without being in conformity with the death of Christ without?

G.R.C. Well, that is just it! This chapter is to bring home to us, I think, that the blood has its efficacy on the mercy-seat and has opened the way in for us because of this very reason -- that Jesus was made sin, and He suffered without the gate. He bore the consuming fire of God's judgment -- not the fire on the altar, but the consuming power of God's judgment outside the camp. So the exhortation is, "therefore let us go forth to him without the camp, bearing his reproach".

Ques. Would it be right to think that the answer to that exhortation would find its result in greater liberty to enter the holiest?

G.R.C. Yes, I think one thing works on the other. The more we enter the holiest, the more our affections will require that we should be clear completely of the camp: the more we are clear completely of the camp, the more liberty we will have to go into the holiest.

Ques. May I go back to "without the gate" and "without the camp"? Did you distinguish between these two? I thought you indicated that "without the gate" was Christ being abandoned by God; but "without the camp" meant really Exodus 32 -- the camp polluted.

G.R.C. That seems to be the allusion.

Rem. But verse 12 would really be Leviticus 16, would it? The great day of atonement.

G.R.C. And of course, there it says the sin offering was to be burned without the camp, so that the camp is in mind; only as it occurred in Jerusalem it was without the gate. So he speaks of, "for we have not here an abiding city, but we seek the coming one". The Lord is outside the gate, as it were, of every city on earth.

Ques. Would it suggest, too, that the service of God following on that could not be connected with the camp, but with the place that Christ has in reproach outside the camp?

G.R.C. I think that is why verses 15 and 16 come where they do. Our altar is not in the camp at all; we have an altar, but it is not in the camp. The activity at the altar is spoken of after it says, "let us go forth to him without the camp, bearing his reproach", and then it gives priestly activity at the altar. "By him therefore let us offer". The epistle has been occupied with Christ's offering, the inaugural offering, but now it is, "let us offer the sacrifice of praise continually to God, that is, the fruit of the lips confessing his name". It shows the setting of priestly service, that it belongs to those who go within the veil, and whose place here is outside the camp.

Rem. It is the last "let us" in the epistle to the Hebrews -- that we should praise and worship God.

G.R.C. It is a most important "let us"; it is the whole priestly service brought in here, and it says in chapter 9: 14, "How much rather shall the blood of the Christ ... purify your conscience from dead works to worship [or serve in a priestly way] the living God?" But here there is the exhortation to carry it

out; and it indicates where the altar is that we serve -- it is outside the camp. There is to be the sacrifice of praise to God continually, and on the other hand the doing good and communicating of our substance; they are sacrifices with which God is well pleased.

Rem. I feel our weakness is in relation to the Person and the place that He has with us; it is going forth "to him", and "by him" let us offer. At-homedness in the holiest would give us to understand what He is in the presence of God, and make Him therefore the Centre to us.

FIFTH READING

2 Corinthians 3:4 to end; 2 Corinthians 4:1 - 6; 2 Corinthians 5:17 to end; 2 Corinthians 6:1, 2, 11 to end.

G.R.C. In these passages we have the ministry of the gospel. It is in two parts; the first part is in 2 Corinthians 3 and 4, dealing with the need of man and the glorious administration which is now operating to meet that need; and then in chapters 5 and 6 the ministry of reconciliation to meet the need of the heart of God. The work of Christ has both in view. It meets the need of man, but it gives him far more, and goes beyond anything the human heart could have conceived. It is a question too of the need of Divine love, and the reconciliation aspect of the death of Christ has that in view, while the whole ministry is in view of God dwelling. Nothing less would satisfy the heart of God. Men are set up in righteousness and life. But then in the ministry of reconciliation God has removed all distance, so as to have men in the closest nearness to Himself for the satisfaction of His own heart. All that finds its answer in God dwelling; finally, of course, in the eternal state, but now, "I will dwell among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be to me a people". All comes from God, and there is to be the full return to God.

Rem. One has noticed how often the word 'glory' is mentioned in the scriptures read.

Ques. Would you say something about "ministers of the new covenant"?

G.R.C. In verse 6 it speaks of God, who has also made us competent as new covenant ministers -- as the footnote says. It is not strictly "as ministers of the new covenant"; that is, this has not in mind the new covenant with the house of Israel and Judah, but that the ministry of the gospel, which is greater than any covenant with Israel, is on new covenant principles. That is to say, it is not on the line of demand but on the line of supply. In Hebrews 9:15 it reads, "And for this reason he is mediator of a new covenant"; the note says 'new covenant mediator', that is to say, the new covenant in its literality is not the subject. The Lord Jesus is a new covenant Mediator; that is His mediation is of that character, not on the line of demand like the old covenant, but on the line of God bringing in what is in His heart for men. Indeed I think Mr. Darby says that as to the new covenant literally no mediator is mentioned. I suppose he is referring to the Old Testament. God simply says that He will write the law upon the hearts of Israel and give it into their minds.

Ques. Would the suggestion of new covenant ministers be that it is not only the terms of the gospel which these men would set forth, but the spirit in which they were amongst the saints themselves?

G.R.C. It would include that; it is in contrast to the old covenant in the spirit of it. But in the gospel God is bringing forward what is in His heart. Therefore it is on a new covenant principle, so that they are characteristically new covenant ministers -- ministers of that kind. But we must see that the gospel which they were ministering was greater than anything connected with the new covenant; this will be formally made with the house of Israel and Judah.

Ques. Would it link with what is said at the end of chapter 2, making "manifest the odour of His knowledge through us in every place", and then in chapter 4, "the shining forth of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ"?

G.R.C. That is what I thought. So in chapter 4 -- and we must not separate the chapters in our minds -- he immediately speaks of his gospel in verse 3. He has been speaking of their character as new covenant ministers, in contrast to the character of the old covenant; but chapter 4 shows that the gospel is in his mind. "But if also our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in those that are lost". Then, "the radiancy of the glad tidings of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God". Then, "the shining forth of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ". In that connection what was being ministered to men was the ministry of the Spirit; that is a ministry of life, for the Spirit quickens; and a ministry of righteousness. Life in the quickening power of the Spirit was being ministered, and righteousness ministered -- not demanded.

Ques. Is the contrast seen between the two covenants; the first is "Thou shalt", on the line of demand; the second is "I will", on the ground of divine purpose and sovereignty?

G.R.C. I think that shows the character of the two covenants. Paul and those with him were new covenant ministers; they were not saying, 'Thou shalt' or 'Thou shalt not', but were speaking of what was in the heart of God, bringing it out for men.

Ques. The Lord in Luke 10 poured in oil and wine; is it like the supply of the new covenant?

G.R.C. That is just what I thought; and what a

supply there is here! The ministry of the Spirit, the apostle says, in contrast to the ministry of death; the ministry of glory in contrast to the ministry of condemnation. So that the whole matter is surpassing glory.

Rem. Is it not interesting that in Isaiah 42, where he brings in the great matter of God's Servant, His Elect, he goes on in verse 6, "I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the nations, to open the blind eyes, to bring forth the prisoner from the prison, them that sit in darkness out of the house of restraint. I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another ... Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth will I cause you to hear them"?

G.R.C. That is very good. So that Christ Himself is the Covenant. "I will ... give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the nations". That is not limited to the new covenant with the house of Israel and Judah; Christ Himself is the Covenant.

Rem. So that the disposition of God is set forth in the death of Christ. It is what God is in Himself, is it not? The death of the testator is referred to in Hebrews, so that not only is it the gift, but the mind of the giver, do you not think?

G.R.C. I think that it is very important to see how carefully the Spirit of God avoids linking the new covenant in Hebrews with Christians -- that is in the letter of it. In chapter 9 it says, "For this reason he is mediator of a new covenant", that is, He is a new covenant Mediator, "so that, death having taken place for redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, the called might receive the promise of the

eternal inheritance". He does not say that the called might have a new covenant made with them. He is really addressing the heavenly company; and the heavenlies are outside any question of the new covenant made with Israel. The Lord is a new covenant Minister to deal with transgressions under the old covenant, but not in order that the called may be brought into the new covenant, but that they might receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Then he speaks of the testament, the death of the testator declaring the heart of God and what is in His heart for men. It is His will in that way, as we speak of the will and testament of a man. Then, in speaking of the blood of the covenant in that same chapter, he speaks of the heavenlies themselves, because that is the word in verse 23. "It was necessary then that the figurative representations of the things in the heavens should be purified with these", that is with the blood of calves and goats, "but the heavenly things [this word is the same as used for the heavenlies in Ephesians] themselves with sacrifices better than these". So the blood, which has laid the basis for the new covenant with the house of Israel and Judah, has done far greater things for us; it has purified the heavenlies, and we belong to the heavenlies; and there is no covenant with people who belong to the heavenlies -- not in the formal or literal sense.

Ques. You connected chapters 3 and 4 with the need of man. Would you say a further word about that, in view of verses 3: 18 and 4: 6?

G.R.C. I think the way the apostle sets things out in chapter 3 shows how wonderfully the need of man is met. The old covenant was a ministry of death, and

a ministry of condemnation. It gave nothing to man; it did not meet any needs. But now, in the gospel, God has brought in a ministry of the Spirit -- verse 8. That is, God is freely giving the Spirit to men. Then in verse 9, there is a ministry of righteousness; that is, God is giving righteousness to men; and the ministry of righteousness abounds in glory. It is a ministry from the glory; it subsists in glory and abounds in glory. Christ has glorified God in His death, and God has glorified Him, and this is a ministry from the glorified Man who Himself is the expression of the glory of God. It does not, in that way, depend on man at all; it depends on the fact that Christ has glorified God; and it is now in full keeping with the rights of God, and the throne of God, as well as with the heart of God, that these things should be brought out to men. There is the ministry of the Spirit, and the ministry of righteousness -- all with a view to our being able to look upon the glory of the Lord with unveiled face. That is to say, we are able to do what Moses did, only in a far greater way than Moses. When Moses went in to the holiest, he took the veil off his face; when he came out he put the veil on. But the Christian can do what Moses did, only in a greater sense, not in that which was a figure, but in that which is the great anti-type in reality. The Christian, as having received these ministries of the Spirit and of righteousness, can go into the presence of God without a veil on his face; and on the other hand there is no veil on the face of Christ.

Rem. So this would help us to understand what is said, "He takes away the first that he may establish the second".

Rem. All that you have been saying helps us to be

free from limiting our ideas as to the need of man. When we think of the need of man, we may only think of his need of forgiveness; but the question of relationship with God, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and what can be enjoyed in man's heart with God, is all included in the thought of his need, is it not?

G.R.C. Yes, God meets the need of man in a way which far exceeds his actual need. We need righteousness, but who could have conceived of the gift of the Spirit? We need the quickening power of the Spirit, but saints in this dispensation receive the Spirit as a gift. And because of the way God meets our need, in such superabundance, we can look upon the glory of the Lord with unveiled face. This answers somewhat to the holiest, I suppose. There is no veil on our heart -- there is a veil still on Israel's heart. Having received His ministrations no veil remains on the heart of the Christian; therefore he can behold the glory with an unveiled face.

Ques. Is that the reason why it is brought into the Supper? As rightly understood and apprehended there, would it liberate the souls of the saints in view of setting them free for the service of God?

G.R.C. Yes. I would like further help as to why it is introduced into the supper. "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you", Luke 22:20. I can see this, that in the original setting the Lord had those who were under the bondage and fear which marked the old covenant and that the cup was the new covenant in His blood; but at the same time the stress may be on the blood. But while the new covenant brings in the character of the present administration, and would set the disciples

free from Judaism and all its bondage, the blood goes much further than the literal new covenant with Israel. I think, and I am speaking subject to correction, that we should seek to concentrate our minds at the supper on "my blood" and "my body", not omitting the other, but that is the great thing. The cup is put into our hands on the basis of that blood.

Rem. So you think that "my body" stands peculiarly connected with the assembly, whereas "which is poured out for you" -- the matter of the blood -- is capable of infinite expansion.

G.R.C. That is what I thought; so I wondered whether the expression "the new covenant in my blood" may be not only to free the disciples and us from Judaism -- because Judaised Christianity is all around us -- dead works -- but also shew that the Lord counts on the assembly taking in the whole scope of the blood, in heaven and earth. We should understand its bearing on the heavenlies and on ourselves as a heavenly company; but there are the earthlies as well.

Ques. Do you think at that point what comes into our souls is the whole range of what is to accrue to God? We may reach this finally in the service, but at that point it is before us, as witnessed in that blood? I was thinking of reconciliation to the Godhead.

G.R.C. Quite so, "By him to reconcile all things to itself", Colossians 1:20.

Rem. Perhaps if we knew more about that, we would have more the scope of the service in our souls as moving from glory to glory.

G.R.C. Well, a brother remarked recently that he felt that in the Lord's Supper we tended to overlook the world to come, and the place that the world to

come should have in our affections. So we must understand the bearing of the blood, not only on ourselves, but on earthly families of which Israel is the chief.

Rem. Would the way it is put, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood", stress the fact that we have not a covenant; but we have a cup which includes, but far surpasses, all that was involved in the new covenant?

G.R.C. I am glad that you have said that, because I was just going to enquire why it is put that way. I suppose that "This cup" could hardly apply to Israel, could it?

Rem. That was my enquiry, whether what is distinctly Christian in the cup carries forward all the thoughts connected with the covenant, and brings them right up to date as our possession?

G.R.C. Yes, that is good.

Ques. Is Mr. -- differentiating between Luke's account and that in 1 Corinthians 11? The "for you" in relation to the cup is mentioned in Luke, but is left out in Corinthians.

G.R.C. Does not the 1 Corinthians 11 account show that the Lord relies on the assembly to take in the whole scope of what has been affected by His blood? He does not say there, "which is poured out for you"; so it is the whole scope of it.

Rem. The Lord finishes His word as to the cup with, "for a calling of me to mind". I was thinking that, great as these matters are, they are actually and livingly with us in a Person, are they not?

G.R.C. That is it, so it does not say in Hebrews 12 that we have come to a new covenant, but we have come to Jesus Himself; and our part is with Jesus

within the veil, where Jesus has access as Forerunner for us. So I think that having boldness for entering the holy of holies by the blood of Jesus seems a touch for those who belong to the assembly. It is the blood of Jesus -- the personal name of the One who has entered as our Forerunner. Israel never goes within the veil, nor does any other family.

Ques. May I ask as to 1 Corinthians 11:26, "For as often as ye shall eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye announce the death of the Lord until he come". Has that in mind His appearing?

G.R.C. I think that is what we should have in mind -- until He comes to take up His rights. But the coming of the Lord in another sense is viewed as one great act, that is it includes the rapture and the appearing. The Lord's coming is in two parts, so we have the whole of it in mind, I would say. He is coming to take up His rights, but the fact is that He takes us first, so that we come with Him.

Rem. One has often thought that we should be very conscious at the Supper of the Lord's peculiar joy. It says of Isaac regarding Rebecca that, "he loved her". This should give us a peculiar sense of what the assembly is -- as covering every dispensation, and every covenant, and every glory.

G.R.C. So that in connection with union, it seems as though the world to come cannot be overlooked in our service of praise, because according to Ephesians 1 Christ has been given, "to be head over all things to the assembly, which is his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all". That would bear on the world to come, although I am not limiting it to that, but it has a special bearing on it, and also on the mystery of God's will, "according to His good

pleasure which He purposed in Himself for the administration of the fulness of times; to head up all things in the Christ". So that the church's union with Him in glory, in public display, surely has its own place in the service of praise. How could we take that in if we have not in our minds the full scope of the blood?

Rem. I think that is most important, because we seem to limit our expressions to matters relating to love at that point. But glory surely enters into it. I am thinking of a line in a hymn which runs, "When all things filled by Thee are wholly blest" (Hymn 293). Do you not think that that might well come into expression while we are enjoying union with the exalted Man?

G.R.C. I do, because the millennial reign is peculiarly the day of Christ; it is the day of His vindication in the eyes of the whole universe, and when His official glories shine. Are not those the things in which the assembly delights? "I speak of what I have composed touching the King"! Psalm 45:1. Then in the Song of Songs it is the King who is the Beloved: but when we go on to eternity, the day of God, we are not in the same way thinking of the official glories of Christ, but of His personal glories.

Rem. So would this reference to the statement that the Spirit quickens allude to the power to answer to the disposition of God as opened up in the covenant? I am thinking of the whole range of what is in His mind.

G.R.C. I am sure that is right, so that we "are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit". Then chapter 4 verse 6 brings out that not only was there no veil on Paul's heart, nor indeed on his face, when he

went into the holiest, but that there was no veil on his face when he came out to men. "But if also our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in those that are lost". In the case of the old covenant the mediator put a veil on his face when he came out, because the children of Israel had not to fix their eyes on the end of that annulled. As we saw yesterday, the end in view in the old covenant was not exactly the new covenant. The end in view in the old covenant was Christianity, and Israel never grasped that; the same veil remains in reading the old covenant unremoved. Now that Christ has died, is risen and glorified, the new covenant ministers do not need to put veils on their faces. The work of Christ is completed, and He is glorified. You can present Christ glorified to men, because there is a great administration from the glory. The glory is not announced to repel men, but is to attract men; and the ministry supplies all that they need to be at home in the glory.

Rem. There is the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ, which itself would be objective; but what the apostle is concerned about is the radiancy of that glory, connected with the outshining by the Spirit through the vessel.

G.R.C. I thought that, so that there is no veil on the apostle's face. If any are lost, the God of this world has blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving. This is a test for us all, as to whether we have been in the holiest so much that we are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory; so that the light that is shining there, in the One who is the effulgence of God's glory, should radiate through us. Or do we in any way allow a veil, any bit of self, or self-seeking, to hinder the light shining through?

There is no veil on the apostle's face; and then he speaks of "the God who spoke that out of darkness light should shine who has shone in our hearts for the shining forth" -- that is it is no thought of God that we should have veils on our faces. This refers to the new covenant ministers, but by extension we are all to be in it in our measure. It says, "we all, looking on the glory of the Lord with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit". This is how God finds His answer in men as to His thought of image. The radiancy of the glad tidings of the glory of the Christ, as the Image of God, should have expression in our faces; our faces should reflect the face of Jesus Christ, and God has shone into our hearts with a view to that shining forth.

Ques. Does the reference of Paul to those who troubled the Galatians, in perverting the glad tidings and bringing in a different gospel, show that there is a possibility of this perversion working in Christianity itself?

G.R.C. The thought of the gospel being obscured?

Rem. Yes, and ministers, who were not in that sense new covenant ministers, bringing in elements of bondage which were to lead the saints astray, and to divert those who had actually begun in Spirit.

G.R.C. And Paul would deal with them most drastically, would he not? He says, "to whom we yielded in subjection not even for an hour", Galatians 2:5.

Rem. Is verse 5 important in relation to those who are privileged to preach, "For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus Lord, and ourselves your bondmen for Jesus' sake"? Do you think preaching

Christ Jesus Lord would result in souls getting the Spirit?

G.R.C. Well, I think that is what would be in mind.

Ques. Would this radiancy shine as the saints administer assembly forgiveness to persons who have repented, such as the man who had been dealt with at Corinth?

G.R.C. I am sure that is right. The Galatian spirit can easily creep in, both in the exercise of assembly discipline, and in the holding back of assembly forgiveness.

Rem. So it would be wrong to write off anyone from whom we have withdrawn, as being beyond the reach of blessing through the shining of new covenant forgiveness?

G.R.C. Well, quite so. Even as to those who have gone astray as to the truth, the apostle says, "If God perhaps may sometime give them repentance", 2 Timothy 2:25. We have to leave that door open; and if we are in the gain of new covenant ministry, that is in the gain of the gospel in the way we are speaking of, we shall be ready for that.

Ques. Would there be some public testimony, in that persons who have been known to go astray are found again at home, happily and freely amongst the saints?

G.R.C. Yes, I think that in the atmosphere and shining of this glory among the saints such persons may be encouraged to make public confession, not simply to confess to one or two brothers in private, but to make public spontaneous and unequivocal confession. I am suggesting this in view of recovery.

Ques. Does it help to see that the thought of

commendation enters into these chapters which we have read? What was in my mind was that if this ministry lays hold of us we shall commend it in that way to men.

G.R.C. Well, yes, and that especially enters into the second part of our subject. In the earlier part -- 2 Corinthians 4 -- it is a question of the bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus, that the life of Jesus might be manifested in our body -- that the light might shine without a veil; but in chapter 5 in connection with the ministry of reconciliation Paul brings in the thought of an ambassador at the end of the chapter. Following this he speaks much about the conduct proper to an ambassador -- "giving no manner of offence in anything, that the ministry be not blamed; but in everything commending ourselves as God's ministers", 6: 3, 4. That would cover both sides of the ministry, but he brings in the features of conduct especially in the ambassadorial setting, because an ambassador should in every way comport himself worthily of the one from whom he comes. But then, when we come to this side of the subject there is the question of the need of God's heart, and perhaps we enter into this in very small measure.

Ques. You mean that in chapter 4 it is a matter of God for men, and now it is a matter of men for God?

G.R.C. I think so. So he says, "So if anyone be in Christ, there is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold all things have become new". We need to get that view of the saints, because every item of the tabernacle system was Christ typically, either Christ personally or Christ in the saints. So we belong to a system where, if we are with God, we

are moving in relation to new creation. "The old things have passed away; behold all things have become new: and all things are of the God who has reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, and given to us the ministry of that reconciliation".

Rem. Unless we reach God's portion we do not get ours, do we?

G.R.C. Well, I believe we ought to think more of the need of God's heart in reconciliation -- that God has, at the greatest cost to Himself, removed the distance, and that He takes the attitude of beseeching, "God as it were beseeching by us, we entreat for Christ". He sends out His ambassadors from His very presence. The ambassador must know what the presence of God is; he is one who has received the gain of the other part of the ministry; he knows what it is to enter the holiest to look on the glory of the Lord, to be in the presence of God. He knows the heart of God, and he is conscious of the joy that God has in having man in such nearness to Himself, and he goes forth from that with the feelings of the heart of God. "God as it were beseeching by us". Think of the lengths God has gone to to have men near to Himself! "Him who knew not sin", it says, "He has made sin for us, that we might become God's righteousness in him".

Ques. Has this ambassadorial service in view that the relations between God and man might be at their fullest, so that God would be God to His people, and His people would be a people to God?

G.R.C. I think that is what is in view. It says in chapter 6, after speaking of God dwelling and walking among them, "I will be their God, and they shall be to me a people". It is the relations of God with men,

but men who are in the closest nearness to Himself, so near indeed that He is dwelling among them, and walking among them -- there is no distance at all. From God's side He has removed all the distance; so that, even while we are here in these mixed conditions, He is free, and yearning as it were, to dwell among us and walk among us. In one sense He does not cease to dwell, because the Spirit never leaves us; but the Spirit may be grieved -- and how easily we do grieve Him! But if the Spirit is not grieved, then we are conscious of God dwelling among us and walking among us. God involves the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If the Spirit is ungrieved we have Christ among us -- "the hope of glory". And if Christ is among us, we know the Father's presence. As the Lord says, "I in them and thou in me". That is the present thought of God, He will secure it eternally; but He has so wrought in the death of Christ, and at such cost to Himself, that from His side there is nothing to hinder. The distance is removed, and His heart yearns to dwell complacently with men.

Ques. Does He not say, "Shall two walk together except they be agreed?" And is the question of the unequal yoke raised there so that through the Spirit there should be no hindrance whatever to there being perfect agreement between God and men, so that they can walk together?

G.R.C. Quite so.

Ques. At the close of chapter 3 the saints are in liberty. At the close of chapter 6 is God in liberty?

G.R.C. That is very good; and surely that is our desire -- that the Spirit should have liberty among us, and that we should know Christ among us, and know the Father's presence and blessing. According to

John 14 the Father and the Son are prepared to come and dwell with one person who loves Christ and keeps His word. The Spirit would already be dwelling in that person, but the Father and the Son are prepared to come. And if that is so with an individual, how much more so in the company! "Ye are the living God's temple; according as God has said, I will dwell among them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be to me a people". If only we had a sense of how the heart of God is in this! He loves us; He longs to dwell complacently thus! We have often thought of Luke 10 representing new covenant ministry -- the divine supply to man has already been referred to -- but Luke 15 is the meeting of the need of the heart of God. How God yearns to have men near to Him and to dwell with them.

Rem. That must be a people in true nearness. I often wonder whether we think God dwelling among us involves His coming into our circumstances; but has not reconciliation been a necessity for God, so that the people with whom He dwells should be near to Him?

G.R.C. That is what I thought, because when you get reconciliation it is "reconciled to himself". In Romans 5:10, "we have been reconciled to God"; it is a question of the yearning of the heart of God.

Rem. The full result could never be secured with man in the distance, however great God's yearnings were for him in that position.

Ques. Is it essential that we should be in the gain of 2 Corinthians 5:16, "So that we henceforth know no one according to flesh"?

G.R.C. Yes; that is the judgment which we arrive at as apprehending the death of Christ -- "One died

for all, then all have died ... So that we henceforth know no one according to flesh". Actually we do know one another according to flesh, but we do not know one another as allowing links with one another on that line. We would not have known one another at all but for being in Christ, and we have got no right to degrade these holy links in any way by forming links with one another based purely on what is natural and social, or on anything according to the flesh. In our links with one another we know no one after the flesh.

Rem. Does the apostle present, in 2 Corinthians 5:21, how much God was prepared to do, and how much Christ was prepared to suffer; and in the beginning of chapter 6 how much the fellow-workmen were prepared to suffer in order that this might be an actual reality -- God having men near to Him? And then in verses 11 - 16 the challenge is as to how much we are prepared to do as regards our associations?

G.R.C. What an expression of God's love and yearnings we have in the latter part of chapter 5! How could He have done more? "Him who knew not sin he has made sin for us"; He has gone to the very extreme. It refers to the sin-offering burnt outside the camp -- Christ made sin for us; it is the very extreme to which Divine love could have gone, and it is because of love. Do we apprehend that? It is because of the love that God has for man -- the desire to have men in Christ in nearness to Himself, and to dwell among them, and walk among them. He yearns for this. He has gone to the greatest possible length that this might be so.

Rem. It is wonderful that, regardless of His holy government and His disciplinary ways with His

people, He should say, in the passage from which Paul quotes in Leviticus 26, that He would never break His covenant with His people, and that He would be their God. Then just previously to that He says, "I am Jehovah your God, who brought you forth out of the land of Egypt that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you walk upright", Leviticus 26:13.

G.R.C. It is wonderful; for even in the case of the Corinthians God does not leave them because of their state. It says "ye are the living God's temple; according as God has said, I will dwell among them, and walk among them". So that God never gives up His covenant in this sense nor His proposal; nor, in this dispensation does He give up His actual dwelling. But then it is a question of God dwelling complacently, and our providing the conditions which are suitable to Him. So the word to the Corinthians is, "Our mouth is opened to you ... our heart is expanded". His heart was in keeping with the heart of God -- as far as the creature's heart could be. He had entered into it; he was an ambassador; he had come from God's presence, from the very heart of God, and "God, as it were beseeching by us". He was entreating for Christ. The love of God and the love of Christ are in this matter; "God beseeching by us", and they entreating for Christ, "Be reconciled to God"; that was the general character of his ministry. But then he brings this matter down to the Corinthians, "we also beseech, that ye receive not the grace of God in vain". He adds later, "for an answering recompense, let your heart also expand itself". If our heart expands itself in the love of God in this respect, it will become a lever in our souls as to what

follows concerning any unholy or unsuitable links.

Ques. Does God therefore find peculiar pleasure in persons who are prepared to make sacrifices, in view of affording conditions in which He can dwell? Psalm 50 says, "Gather unto me my godly ones, those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice!"

G.R.C. How God values that, that we should make a covenant with Him! He has covenanted to bless us, but how wonderful when He gets a response like that! It is like the heart expanding itself. As to this matter of yokes, etc., it is noticeable how every aspect is entered into. There is first the diverse yoke with unbelievers, which covers all in a way, referring to the Old Testament in which it was forbidden to yoke the ox and the ass together. It does not say there that you may yoke an ox and an ass together so long as the ass behaves itself, but that they are not to be put together at all. But then it goes on to every form of compromise. "what participation is there between righteousness and lawlessness?" "Participation" would touch shareholding, participating in profits in that sense, and in other ways of course. "What fellowship of light with darkness?" Light and darkness are incompatible with each other; John's ministry shows that you cannot mix light and darkness. "What consent of Christ with Beliar?" In some cases all that people ask for is our consent. They come to the door and say, "Will you sign this? We only want your consent; we just want another name on the list". But consent as to what? Then, "what agreement of God's temple with idols?" How completely the Spirit of God goes all round the point, we may say, touching every feature of it. I have missed out one -- "what part for a believer along with an

unbeliever?" That would touch companionship. "Along with" is the preposition which is used of divine Persons; "And now glorify me, thou Father, along with thyself, with the glory which I had along with thee before the world was". It is the idea of companionship. All this is in order that God may have the great desire of His heart -- a purified people, purified from every pollution of flesh and spirit; so that while He has removed all distance on His side, and at such cost, there should be no distance on our side. So He should be able to dwell among us, and walk among us complacently, He being our God, and we His people.

Rem. So that walking in faithfulness in the path of separation does not mean a withered heart on our part; it encourages an expanded heart, thus helping our brethren so to walk.

G.R.C. Quite so, it is the way of expansion.

SIXTH READING

John 1:11 - 18; John 14:15 - 20; John 20:17; Revelation 21:1 - 7

G.R.C. All that was in God's mind as to His relations with men depended upon the Word becoming flesh. It involved also, as we have already seen, Christ's death; He "came by water and by blood, Jesus the Christ"; but we are specially considering the incarnation, and all that flows from it. The Word becoming flesh is the guarantee of everything that was in God's mind being carried into effect. Whether we think of Adam, he was the figure of the One to come; or Noah, he was also a type; or Abraham, blessing centred in his seed, and his seed is Christ. And if we think of God dwelling, we have God appearing in a flame of fire out of the midst of the bush. So we can see how from every standpoint everything was to depend on the Word becoming flesh. But then, not only have the relations which we have already considered in the Old Testament been established in the Word becoming flesh, but new relationships have been introduced. It says in this chapter, "as many as received him, to them gave he the right to be children of God". God's relations with men as His children come thus to light; and at the close of the gospel, God's relations with men as Christ's brethren, and as sons, come to light. But first of all there is the unique relationship of the Word Himself, "We have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father". He is said to be "the only begotten Son in the bosom of the

Father", so the choicest relationships come into view through the Word becoming flesh. Indeed the economy, as we may call it, i.e., the revelation of God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, thus came into being. It was anticipated in eternal purpose; but the economy actually came into being in time, and these relationships stand related to that economy. So we may now consider the economy and these special relationships; and then note that in Revelation 21 -- these relationships having been secured -- God achieves finally His end in dwelling. So what we touched on this morning as to new creation being understood at the present time, and God dwelling among us, and He being our God and we being His people, is seen in its final counterpart in Revelation 21, where we have new creation in its fulness, the tabernacle of God being with men and He dwelling with them. It says, "they shall be his people and God himself shall be with them, their God". All the relationships God has ever had in mind as to man, including the special ones I have mentioned, are brought to pass; and the final word is, "God himself shall be with them, their God". God is the centre of that scene. We noticed how at the very outset God was displaced through the subtlety of the enemy, man becoming thereby his own object -- his own centre. But the final thing is that God has His true place as Centre and Object, and in a scene where sin will never intrude. I think all that is involved in the words. "To this end the Son of God has been manifested, that he might undo the works of the devil", 1 John 3:8. The great work of the devil was to make man his own centre and his own object. But the Son of God has been manifested, and this great economy has come into being, so that there may

be a universe where God will ever be the Centre and Object, and where the deceiver will never enter.

Ques. Would you say a word as to the significance of 'tabernacling', bearing in mind the footnote to John 1:14, and the word in Revelation 21 as to the tabernacle of God?

G.R.C. I thought it stressed the intimacy with which God is known through the economy. Of course you get the word "tabernacle" in the Old Testament as anticipating this. What do you think?

Ques. Would it involve the provision of love, that God should be here in all that He is but in conditions which provide for His intimate relations with men? There is a certain inscrutability in the idea, is there not? God here -- nothing less than God in Jesus -- but yet in suitability to the very environment into which He has come.

G.R.C. Quite so; so that, while we are always in the presence of what is infinite yet, through grace, our relations in love are most intimate. The unique relationship into which the Word entered -- the "Only-begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father" -- would remain, would it not? That is something which is known in the tabernacle of God eternally. We shall, no doubt, understand more fully than we do now this wonderful place which the only-begotten Son has in the bosom of the Father. As the gospel proceeds we find one in the bosom of Jesus. Although, as you say, the Person of Jesus is inscrutable, yet there is one who could be in His bosom -- as near as that. Would not all that link with the idea of tabernacling?

Rem. I think that is very beautiful. And then finally we see God enthroned, for His tabernacling with men would involve His enthronement, would it

not? So He delights to dwell with the creature.

G.R.C. In the order of Scripture, you have blessing in Genesis and dwelling in Exodus, and reigning later; indeed even in the wilderness the shout of a King was among them, but it was consequent upon God dwelling. I think that in eternal conditions it will be the God known in such close relations Who will thus rule for ever in the affections of the universe without rival. The throne remains, but the One whose throne it is, will dwell tabernaclewise with men.

Ques. Is not the link, between the absolute and the relative, love? And that is our only link. Is that not very wonderful to think of, that that link of love is to abide with us for ever in relation to God Himself?

G.R.C. It is wonderful that love has been manifested. God is light and God is love.

Ques. Would you say that in those intimate chapters of confiding love, John 14 to 17, you come to an atmosphere as near to eternity as any scripture would afford? So that in the Lord's presence here with His own, there is an ease and liberty which will alone suit divine love eternally. We sometimes sing, "Eternity's begun". Are we made to feel this in John's gospel, in those chapters and John 20?

G.R.C. That is why I suggested reading chapter 14, because it really brings in tabernacle conditions now, does it not? It says, "In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you" -- that is at the present day. It then goes on to speak of the Father and the Son abiding with one person, the Spirit being there too, showing that what is characteristic of the eternal day is brought into the present, in the Spirit's power.

Ques. Were these distinctive relations with men in

view when it says, "grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ"?

G.R.C. God's relations with men? Quite so. The law perfected nothing; the law was given by Moses; it did not bring about the relationships which God had in mind; but "grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ", and in the power of that, these relationships are brought to pass. So that the incarnation is spoken of as a beginning: it is a wonderful beginning! It is spoken of in John's epistle in that way, "That which was from the beginning", and, "Him that is from the beginning". The Word became flesh, and that began certain things, certain relationships. There are those relationships we have already spoken about; but this beginning began certain relationships which were not known before, and which really attach to the saints of this dispensation only. One is the idea of "children of God" just mentioned previously in the chapter; then "brethren" of Christ and "sons of God" as known by the assembly; these relationships began with this great new beginning. "A glory as of an only-begotten with a father", and "the only-begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father"; these are new things. Is that right?

Rem. I would fully agree with that. The way, too, in which John speaks in his first epistle of "the eternal life, which was with the Father, and has been manifested to us", is affecting, is it not?

G.R.C. It is. Does that not indicate that eternal life for those of this dispensation is in what we speak of as this great economy of love? We really live in the power of the Holy Spirit, in the flow of the Father's affections for the Son and the Son's affections for the Father.

Rem. Which had come into being, as you say, in His coming into manhood.

G.R.C. Quite so. He was ever loved, loved before the foundation of the world as in the abstract relations of Deity, and all that He was coming into would be anticipated. But then how loved He was as coming into this condition! What an object of affection, unchanged in His Person, but coming into such a condition! How loved! "An only-begotten with a father"!

Rem. So that it is a realm of mutual glory, pervaded by the mutual glory between the Father and the Son, and pervaded by the blessed Spirit. Is that what we are brought into?

G.R.C. That is just what I thought. The economy is wonderful to consider, having been devised in order to bring man into the place God had in mind for him. I am not wanting to limit it unduly, but surely it is a great matter that the economy has been entered into by Divine Persons in order that, in the first instance, men should be brought into life on the level which God had in mind for those of this dispensation.

Ques. Would this word "contemplated" help us? It seems a new way of approaching the matter, does it not? We get it both in John's gospel, where you have read, and in the beginning of John's epistle.

G.R.C. Yes, it seems most important to be in a contemplative attitude in a reading like this. It is something to contemplate, "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us", that is amongst the children of God. He did not dwell among Israel, or among the world. He dwelt among those referred to in the previous verse. He dwelt among the "us"; and it is our privilege, as children of God having a right to that

place, to contemplate His glory -- a glory as of an only-begotten with a father. And then it is our privilege to see Him as the only-begotten Son in the bosom of the Father. Then it is our privilege to hear the unfoldings which He makes, and which are livingly expressed in His Person as the Word, concerning the declaration of God. This is all most wonderful, and the spirit of contemplation should mark us.

Ques. Does not John give us the fullest setting forth of the economy?

G.R.C. Well, he gives us the declaration of God. In Matthew the Lord declares the Name, and of course much is said there about God. But I think in John we have the declaration of God in a full sense -- the Son's own declaration of God, because He alone is the Declarer of God. No apostle could declare God; it is the Lord's own unique glory to declare God. I think that declaration is particularly set out in this gospel.

Ques. Would you say a little more as to your remark as to the economy being the means by which God can bring man into right relationships with Himself?

G.R.C. Well, I think it is by way of these special and unique relationships which attach to ourselves -- saints of this dispensation. It is as coming into these; knowing our place as children of God; entering into our dignity and privilege as sons of God; and in the contemplation of the Only-Begotten, and the apprehension of God as declared. I think it is thus that we learn to live on a level of life which the family to which we belong alone knows. We live on a level of life which no other family will know; we live in these blessed relationships in the immediate presence of the

Persons of the Godhead as thus manifested. Our life is knit inseparably with the Persons of the Godhead.

As Paul would say, "Our life is hid with Christ in God"; and I think the lesser things, the other relationships which we have spoken about must be fulfilled, and are bound to be carried through, by such a company.

Ques. Would this reference to the "place" in John 14, "If I go and shall prepare you a place" -- that is distinct from the many abodes in the Father's house -- bear on the uniqueness of the relationships connected with the first-born family?

G.R.C. It would. And would it not be morally on the same level as the holiest? It is another aspect of things; but in Hebrews our place is within the veil, and no other family has such a place. Here the Lord says as to the Father's house, "I go to prepare you a place". No other family has that place. As He says in the prayer in John 17, "That where I am they also may be with me". According to our chapter He says that He would receive us to Himself, "That where I am ye also may be". But to the Father He says, "that they may be with me where I am".

Ques. May I ask whether you could help us as to what bearing Christ going to the Father has on the understanding of the economy at the present time? In the gospel of John He leads the disciples to look forward to His going to the Father as completing matters. To get the full presentation of the economy, as it is to be known now, do we have by the Spirit's power to realise the advantage which accrues through Christ going to the Father? And is that a fuller setting out of the economy than was actually known when He was down here?

G.R.C. I do not think that we could have been vitally brought into the economy till the Lord had departed from this world to go to the Father. Does it not say in chapter 13, "Knowing that his hour had come that he should depart out of this world to the Father"? We could have no vital part in the economy until that had taken place. It brings us back to what we have already considered -- the blood of Christ, His death. In the prayer in John 17 He says, "I have completed the work which thou gavest me that I should do it": the whole prayer is really based on that. He had completed the work which He had come to do; and He requests to be glorified, on that account, with the Father with the glory which He had with Him before the world was. But then He goes on to pray relative to the place which the men whom the Father had given Him would have. I do not think we could have come into the economy, nor could the disciples have done so, in the days of His flesh. They contemplated; and, as it says in the epistle, they saw with their eyes, and their hands handled; but as yet they could not be vitally in it. Is that right?

Rem. Surely.

G.R.C. So that everything depends upon Christ's present position, and we read the gospel in the light of that. We would not understand what He said about God, or the declaration of God, but for the fact that He is now where He is; and we have now received the Holy Spirit.

Ques. The bosom of the Father is the Lord's present position then?

G.R.C. It was His position when here, as well as now. "No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he

hath declared Him". He was in the Father's bosom when He was here; and He is in the Father's bosom now, I take it, and will be eternally.

Ques. So the declaration of God is not to be an academic matter, is it? "In the bosom of the Father", the declaration made in that place, would mean it is a matter of love with us.

G.R.C. It would, and would mean that it stands related to this economy. It is the only-begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father telling us what He knows as there -- in that position.

Ques. Therefore the declaration of God involves, in a peculiar way in John's presentation, the revelation of the Father, does it not?

G.R.C. It does. At the same time it involves the manifestation of the Son in the greatness of His Person. If we look at the gospel as a whole, it is remarkable. It begins, in the first three verses, with the most emphatic assertion that Jesus is I AM; He Himself asserts it later; but the first three verses are the most emphatic assertion which could be conceived, that Jesus is I AM. That is, He never began to be. In the beginning He was, but everything else began to be through Him. That is the idea of the name I AM -- that God alone is self-existent, every other existence being derived from Him; and that is Jesus according to the first three verses. Of course it is the Father too, and the Spirit, but the great point is that it is Jesus Who is that. He never began to be; but everything else, 'began to be' -- that is the literal word -- through Him. Then it says here that the Word 'began to be' flesh; that is the new beginning; but then as the gospel proceeds the Father comes into view, and also the Spirit, so much so that in chapter 14 the Lord says

that they knew Him; that is they knew the Son, and they knew the Father because they knew the Son, and then they knew the Spirit. It is all objective knowledge. So they are viewed as having an objective knowledge of the Trinity, as we speak. Is that right?

Rem. I would fully agree.

G.R.C. But then it is the only-begotten Son in the Father's bosom who makes it all known. It is He who tells us about the Father, the Head of the economy, the God and Father who is over all, and through all, and in us all. And it is He who tells us about Himself, although the Spirit bears witness in the first three verses of John 1; but, as the gospel proceeds, He makes it clear Himself Who He is; and it is He who tells us about the Holy Spirit, and makes it clear that the Holy Spirit is a Person, another Comforter.

Ques. Would John suggest that the economy is brought in, not only to meet the need occasioned by sin, but from God's own heart; it is His rights in love, is it not, to satisfy His own heart?

G.R.C. Well, that is the remarkable thing about the affections prevailing in the economy. The Father's love for the Son has no bearing on the sin question. "The Father loves the Son". Well you can understand how the Father came into manifestation when the Son was here. There was an Object adequate to draw out the affections of the Father, and the Father loves the Son. And then the Son loves the Father; that in itself is outside the sin question. Then by the Father's Spirit we are brought into the flow of the Father's love for the Son, and by the Spirit of God's Son we are brought into the flow of the Son's love for the Father; so that we are really brought into affections of the highest order, and we are to live in those

affections -- 'Where love's treasures are displayed'.

Ques. Is that why John does not stress the feature of sonship as Paul does? Paul's line would be more connected with glory in display? Is John not developing the peculiar affections which flow between Divine Persons and in which it is our privilege to have part?

G.R.C. It seems to be that. And we could not conceive of a greater privilege than to have part, and be in the flow of, the Father's affections for the Son, and the Son's affections for the Father, and all that in the power of the Holy Spirit, and to find our very life in that economy. That is where we live.

Ques. Would that be seen in the bosom of Jesus in the 13th chapter?

G.R.C. Yes. I think it would. The economy had a beginning. God had no beginning: Jesus had no beginning, He is the I AM; but the economy had a beginning. It began when the Word became flesh; and John speaks of, "That which was from the beginning". Certain relationships began then. However much they may have been anticipated, the real beginning was then; and this is the outstanding relationship, one would say, in the economy -- the Father and the Son, and the Son as the only-begotten Son in the Father's bosom.

Ques. Would those affections be seen in John 17:26 -- "I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known; that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them"?

G.R.C. That is exactly what was in mind, "that the love wherewith thou hast loved me" -- that the Father's love for the Son should be in us; and "I in them" means Christ in us. So that His affections for the Father are flowing responsively in us. It seems to

me a wonderful thing that by the Spirit we should be in the flow in both directions. The Spirit has been given to us that we may be in the flow of the Father's affections for the Son, and be conscious too that those affections embrace us; and that we may be in the flow of responsive affections of the Son for the Father, He always having His own unique place as the Son.

Ques. Is it going too far to say that what you are bringing before us is really descriptive of the expression which Paul uses, "the life of God" in Ephesians 4:18?

G.R.C. I would think that it would bear on this. It speaks of the nations as "estranged from the life of God by reason of the ignorance which is in them". And life was manifested here as light according to this chapter, "In him was life". In Jesus there was a Man living in relation to God: all His springs were in God; and those who had eyes to see could see that those springs were those of an only-begotten with a father. There was a Man -- it refers to Jesus in Manhood -- and "In him was life, and the life was the light of men", bearing on what we are saying as to God's relations with men. It is not the light of angels, nor simply the light of Israel; the life was the light of men. The light had come that men might apprehend what was in God's mind for them. Is that so?

Rem. Yes, and I thought the life of God really involved the relationships in which He lived.

Rem. It was a life of sacrificing love, in this foreign scene, was it not?

G.R.C. It was. Of course, that brings in the point that while these affections viewed by themselves -- that is the Father's love for the Son, and the Son's love for the Father and the Spirit's love, as we may say,

for the Father and the Son -- subsist apart from the sin question, the sin question had to be met to achieve what was in the Divine mind. Therefore, as you say, it was a sacrificial life; and the Father has a further motive for loving the Son, "On this account the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it again".

Ques. Would you say something as to knowing the Spirit in John 14:17? Can we speak of a relationship with the Spirit?

G.R.C. Well, in that chapter the relationship, if you can call it such, is that of Comforter, the Paraclete. As the footnote indicates, it is somewhat the kind of relationship which a solicitor has with a family, though the human illustration completely fails because of the affections involved in this; but He is the Comforter in the sense that He takes full charge of the saints; and we know the One who is in charge. We know Him; He dwells with us and in us, and the Lord could say of the disciples that they knew Him.

Ques. Was it that they knew Him in the Person of Jesus in His relations with His Father?

G.R.C. We have come to the objective knowledge of God in the Person of Jesus, for in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. It is in that glorified Man that we come to know the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, because the word 'knowledge' in chapter 14 is objective knowledge -- knowledge of a Person. Is that so?

Rem. Yes, I was thinking of the disciples themselves. The Lord says "Ye know him". Had they known the blessed Spirit objectively in the Person of Jesus?

G.R.C. I thought so, because even when He was

here in Him all the fulness was pleased to dwell; and I believe the word in Colossians specially links with John's gospel -- not excluding of course the other gospels -- because it is the same Person. But it seems to me it is in this gospel that we specially see that in Him all the fulness was pleased to dwell. The Spirit descended and abode upon Him, and He Himself says, "the Father who abides in me, he does the works". "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?" "In Him all the fulness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell, and by him to reconcile all things to itself, having made peace by the blood of his cross". And this is the only gospel which gives the blood of His cross.

Ques. Could you say a little more as to how the saints know the Spirit as in Jesus? We have understood that we have seen the Father as in Jesus, but I do not think we have thought so much about the Spirit as in Jesus.

G.R.C. Well, for one thing -- I cannot say much about it; much more could be said than this -- He is another Comforter, and they had known Jesus in that character. As you say, they had seen the Father in Jesus. He says, "He that has seen me has seen the Father". Fatherhood was perfectly expressed in Jesus. He was a perfect representation of the Father; even in washing their feet He was doing what a father would do for his children; and it is in that chapter that He calls them children. A father will do anything for his children. But then He also had the place of Comforter, because He said, "He will send you another comforter". That is, Jesus had cared for them, and taken charge of them; and, so far as they were able to bear it, He had led them into the truth. So in

that way they would apprehend the Spirit in Him, that He was another Comforter, and that He would act in those ways as Jesus had acted.

Ques. Would you say that when the Lord says, "If I by the Spirit of God cast out demons", the disciples would become acquainted with the Spirit as they observed the Lord's movements in that way?

G.R.C. I think that enters into the matter also; everything He did was by the Spirit.

Ques. Is not the Lord Jesus still the blessed Paraclete on high, with the Father, according to John's epistle?

G.R.C. He is.

Ques. Is there not the thought of mystery entering into it? So that in chapter 14 the Lord Jesus says, "He that hath seen me, hath seen the Father". Is it not only the thought of representation, but that the Father personally is to be seen in the Son? Does that not involve the thought of mystery?

G.R.C. I think it does.

Ques. So do you think the expression, "Ye know him for he abides with you and shall be in you", would indicate that it is a characteristic matter, through the dispensation?

G.R.C. I think so. I think that verse covers the whole of this dispensation. We know the Spirit: He abides with us and is in us.

Ques. We understand how the disciples would have known Him as seeing Jesus; but is it not to bear upon us, as being a peculiar mark of the dispensation, that we know Him?

G.R.C. I think so. It is very precious, I think, that we know the Spirit.

Ques. Does the apostle's reference in Romans 15,

"But I beseech you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ, and by the love of the Spirit", bear on what you are saying? Is that love of the Spirit, known personally, to be a strong lever in our souls?

G.R.C. I think so. The Spirit's service is carried on in perfect love, is it not? Love for the Father; love for the Son; and love for the saints; it is a wonderful service of love. Then the disciples would not only know the Spirit in other ways, but particularly by what the Lord said about Him. The idea of declaration is 'telling out'. The Lord has told out all that could be told out as to God.

Ques. Is that why, in practically every reference the Lord makes to the Spirit as the Comforter and in His service, He links the Father and Himself with Him? "I will beg the Father and he will give you another Comforter"; "But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"; "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send to you from the Father". Do we have to keep the Spirit in perspective, as being linked with the other two Persons all the time?

G.R.C. That is good, because it keeps in our souls the truth that God is One, does it not? We can distinguish the Persons, but not separate them.

Rem. I thought that linked on with what you have been saying as to the saints being brought into the economy, and the Spirit being with us and in us.

G.R.C. Quite so. How could we be in the economy otherwise?

Ques. Does not the passage in Hebrews 9 fit in? "How much rather shall the blood of the Christ, who by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God". I was thinking how it would bring on to our view the

glory of the Holy Person who was there -- the truth that, "in him all the fulness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell".

G.R.C. I am sure that is right; and so we ought specially to value the Lord's words in this gospel as the telling out or declaration of God. He has brought out all that could be known of God; expressed in His Person, but also told out in His words. How much He has told us of the Father; but how much He has told us about Himself, and how much He has told us about the Holy Spirit! So that even His words, if apprehended, would give us a knowledge of the Persons of the Godhead.

Ques. Israel in their economy had to understand their relations with God on the basis of the four offerings by fire. Are we to understand our relations with God in regard to all that has come out in expression in the Son, Jesus?

G.R.C. Yes, but then our relations with God are equally resting on the four offerings by fire. We could not come into the economy at all but for that. As has already been said, in John 17 the Lord says, "I have glorified thee on the earth, I have completed the work which thou gavest me that I should do it"; and, from that point on, He does not refer to the men whom the Father has given him as though they had any earthly origin or sinful history. Their origin is with the Father -- "Thine they were and thou gavest them me" -- and there is no reference to any sinful history. He is praying in respect of their part in this wondrous economy -- that in unity they might enter into it, and be held in it. He says, "they are not of the world as I am not of the world". But then the fact that He could refer to them, and that He could hold them in His affections

in that way, has its basis in the fact that -- speaking anticipatively of course -- He had completed the work which the Father had given Him to do; and that involves the four offerings by fire. That is the basis on which every family is blessed, however great the blessing is; otherwise there is no foundation. And therefore while these affections in the economy in themselves stand outside the sin question, they have been brought into the matter of dealing with it. The Father's love in type in Genesis 22 is first brought before us in a setting of anguish; so that these affections, known in their flow in the economy, have been proved in their depth and blessedness in the way the sin question has been taken up and settled. "Hereby we have known love because he has laid down his life for us". If these affections had been brought before us only abstractly, not only could we never have had part in them, because we are sinners, but we could not have understood the wonder and the depth of them. But actually the Word becoming flesh was a primary matter, as we know from Hebrews 10:5 - 7, so that men might be brought into this economy, and might dwell in affections which really had nothing to do with the sin question, but which have been tried and tested relative to it. The Father's love being first mentioned in a setting of anguish is to be taken account of: that is how it is introduced typically in Scripture -- "Take now thy son, thine only son whom thou lovest, Isaac". The antitype is in John 1, of course. This One, as an "only-begotten with a father", was on a path which was going to end in death; so that, when He is first announced, it is "Behold the Lamb of God", not 'Behold the Word', not 'Behold the I AM', but "Behold the Lamb of

God". He had come for that purpose; that is how He has proved His love, not only as to us, but to the Father. He has proved it before the universe. "That the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father has commanded me thus I do". So the Lord, in His perfect Manhood, has proved to the universe His love for the Father in keeping His commandment even to death. The Father's love for the Son has been manifested in all the anguish which it meant for the Father to surrender the Son to such suffering. He was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father. And then the Spirit too has entered into all that. The Spirit loves the Father and the Son perfectly, and He loves us perfectly; and it was by the Eternal Spirit that the Lord Jesus offered Himself spotless to God. The Spirit's feelings have entered into everything connected with the incarnation, the preparation of the body, and the perfect manhood of Christ. He was with Him in every step of the way, in His path of obedience, and with Him even in the last great act of obedience and sacrifice -- "by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God". That is how the Spirit's affections have been proved and manifested to the universe, and especially to be known by us. It is in that that the glory of God as God shone out. There are these affections in the economy which are supreme, and between Divine Persons; but the way the glory of God as God has come into radiant manifestation is in the way the Persons of the Godhead have met the sin question. In the way in which that has been done, God, in His nature and character as God, has come into full display, and in a way which we can apprehend, and which other families will yet apprehend through us. A brother was saying recently that the

city only has the glory of God; that is, the inhabitants of the city alone are capable of being in the immediate presence of that radiant outshining. The glory of God enlightens the city, and the Lamb is the lamp of it, and the inhabitants of the city would be in the immediate presence of that radiant outshining of the effulgence of God's glory. But "her shining" would be the modification of that, to suit other families which get their light through the assembly. These families could not all bear 'that glory beam, unhindered face to face' (Hymn 72) as the hymn puts it, only those of the assembly: nevertheless the glory beam is shining in all its radiance; and it has come out in the way Divine Persons, having entered into this economy, have dealt with the question of sin.

Rem. The city will furnish a medium in that way in which divine outshining is diffused, you might say, through the city, tempered to the whole universe. The tabernacle of God, presumably, will even more so furnish something of that character in eternity.

G.R.C. Quite so, because the tabernacle of God is still the city; so that there is still the diffusion of light, but it is modified, or tempered as you say, through the city, so that each family takes in from the city what it is able to bear. Israel takes in what Israel is capable of taking in; and other families take in what they can take in; even the nations walk by its light; but the inhabitants of the city are in the full blaze -- 'Like Him to know that glory beam, unhindered face to face'. So the economy having come into being, the activities of Divine Persons in that economy, in dealing with the sin question, have brought the whole character and nature of God into radiant display, and that will hold us all through

eternity. That is why it says, "God himself shall be with them, their God". We would not think of having any other God than that God.

Ques. You made a remark a little earlier in regard to Philadelphia that you felt we had got a long way to go. Would you say a little more about that? I apprehend that it touches something of the climax of what you have in mind in these meetings?

G.R.C. Yes. I think that we have a long way to go to get to a Philadelphian state. What we discover from time to time, as light comes in as to what we are going on with, only proves this, that we are not yet fully in accord with God's temple. The temple of God is holy, and such are ye, and as we had this morning, "Ye are the living God's temple; according as God has said, I will dwell among them, and walk among them", 2 Corinthians 6:16. We must not -- I say this in passing -- think that when it says, "the living God's temple", that we are distinguishing between that and the tabernacle; that is not so. There was a temple of the tabernacle, and a temple of the house which Solomon built. The temple first mentioned in Scripture -- 1 Samuel 1:9 and 3: 3 -- is the temple of the tabernacle where Samuel lay; it is the shrine, the immediate presence of God; but in Corinthians it is the tabernacle of witness here, and the shrine of the tabernacle here, where we are now, we are in the shrine; we belong to it, the tabernacle of witness. But then the tabernacle of God in eternity is the shrine itself, and it is evident that we are not fully in accord with the temple. Exercises which are raised from time to time show that we are not yet fully in accord with it, as the word is, "Wherefore come out from among them". That is, the basis of the exhortation

is that the saints are temple of God, "and be ye separated" -- not simply separate but "separated". It is perfectly evident to me that we are not yet fully in accord with what we should be as the temple of God.

Ques. Do you visualise a time when believers will be?

G.R.C. Well, we are to labour to that end, are we not? The Lord says of the overcomer in Philadelphia, "Him will I make a pillar in the temple of my God". I am referring to the temple, because that is the promise to this overcomer. God would credit the whole assembly with the features which are found in Philadelphia. How we would desire that all the saints on earth should be brought into line with that. But God is prepared, and the Lord is prepared, to clothe all His own on earth with the features He may find only in a few. He is looking for those features to be wrought out, as we may say, to finality. The word to Sardis is, "I have not found thy works complete"; that is the general condition; but in Philadelphia the works are complete; the Lord has nothing but approval. There is a little strength -- not much -- but with the strength available the works are completed, and the saints there are in keeping with what they are as the temple of the tabernacle, the very shrine of God, and in keeping too with the city. So we should be deeply exercised about all this because of the light we have been given.

Ques. Is there a danger of thinking that Philadelphia is a position, instead of a condition or state?

G.R.C. That is right. It is probably right to say that it is a position, but it must be a position coupled with a state proper to it.

Ques. Would Ephesians 2 help -- "For through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father. So then ye are no longer strangers and foreigners, but ye are fellow-citizens of the saints, and of the household of God, being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the cornerstone, in whom all the building fitted together increases to a holy temple in the Lord; in whom ye also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit" -- would that cover what we are seeking to get at?

G.R.C. Yes, because I believe that the more we find our life in the economy, in these affections we have spoken about, the more we shall have strength to take up the obligations connected with being fellow-citizens, the temple of God and the habitation of God. These affections in the economy underlie everything; and we live in them, or we should do so; and they are touched on in "through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father".

Ques. Are the relationships in John 20 unique to this time, the assembly's time, this matter of the brethren of the Lord Jesus, and His Father and our Father, His God and our God?

G.R.C. I only suggested reading that to show how wonderful are the relationships which God has entered into with men in connection with the economy. We are children of God; and that is a title not linked, as far as I see, with any other family besides the saints of this dispensation. Then we are Christ's brethren on the highest level, and sons of God on the highest level.

Ques. Is this thought of the practical side of the truth finalised in Revelation 21:7? "He that overcomes

shall inherit these things, and I will be to him God, and he shall be to me son". Is that not the way the matter stands as to the practical side of the truth?

G.R.C. I think so. So we have in the eternal scene wonderful things stated -- first the tabernacle of God, and saints of this dispensation are that; the assembly is the tabernacle of God, where the relationships to which we have been referring, between the Father and the Son by the Spirit, are known, and into which we are brought. They are not known in the same way by any other family, but are known by us, and our very life is in them. But then it goes on to say that, "the tabernacle of God is with men and He shall tabernacle with them"; that would refer to other families, of course, with whom He dwells through the assembly, through the tabernacle. Then it says, "they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, their God" so that that relationship is not abrogated. The idea of "with men", while it includes other families, includes the assembly as composed of men too; they form the tabernacle; they are the nearest family. But then there is also the thought of "people" -- God and a people: it is not given up -- "they shall be his people". While we ourselves have far greater relationships than that, as forming the tabernacle, yet from the general standpoint we come into it; it is the general idea -- "they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, their God". It is the thought of God and a people.

Ques. Why do you think in that connection that what is predicted of God is His wiping away every tear -- at the height of the matter, as we might say, "God himself shall be with them, their God"; then what is described is the wiping away of every tear?

G.R.C. The tears being wiped away at that stage will be those of other families, will they not?

Ques. Is it a question of God arriving at a position in which every matter is brought complacently into accord with Himself, in His own love?

G.R.C. Quite so. Our tears will have been wiped away earlier, will they not?

Rem. Quite so.

G.R.C. All tears are to be wiped away; and then it goes on as to the overcomer, "I will be to him God and he shall be to me son"; that is in the public position; the overcomer is owned as son in the setting of majesty and the setting of the throne.

Ques. In that connection does the expression, "God himself" link right back with "Jehovah Elohim" which you began with -- God coming in, in a personal way, to be known and loved, and served?

G.R.C. I think it does, so that God achieves all that He set out to do.

Ques. Would that expression, "God Himself", involve the nearness of the Mediator to the whole creation, in the Person of Christ as Man?

G.R.C. Well, it would, because God is ever known in Him.

A PLACE FOR US AND A PLACE FOR GOD

John 14:2, 3, 21, 23; Revelation 3:7 - 16, 19 - 21

I wish to speak, dear brethren, of a place for us, and a place for God. In so speaking it will be necessary to refer to the economy of God, and to refer to the subject of eternal life. As we were noticing this afternoon, in his epistle John speaks of the beginning, "That which was from the beginning", referring to this great economy of God. God Himself had no beginning, but He has entered into an economy -- the word, I believe, implying a household arrangement -- which has had a beginning. And the beginning stands out in the statement, "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us". We have been speaking of God's committal to men in various ways as seen in the covenants, but you could not conceive of any greater committal on the part of God to man than in the fact that the Word became flesh. Jesus is in Manhood -- marvellous fact! What regard God must have for men, that Jesus should now be a Man. What a stupendous fact that is! And Jesus being a Man, God is shining forth in radiant glory in a Man, and that is how we know Him. The full knowledge of God is available to us now because God is shining out in a Man, the Man Christ Jesus, a glorious Man. And the radiancy of His glory will fill our vision throughout eternity. I am not now referring simply to His official glories, which will so largely occupy our hearts and minds in the world to come, but to what He is in Himself; not His offices now, but what He is as the

effulgence of God's glory, and the expression of His substance -- what Jesus is in Himself. Every official glory attaching to man belongs to Him, and every office which He takes up He adorns; but beyond the question of any office is what He is; He is the effulgence of God's glory, and the expression of His substance.

"There with unwearied gaze
Our eyes on Him we'll rest,
And satisfy with endless praise
Our hearts supremely blest". (Hymn 79)

What an eternal occupation, to look upon God expressed in radiant glory in a Man!

The Word becoming flesh is also God's affirmation of all His promises, and the assurance that He will carry out His purpose. Promises are part of purpose. God purposed certain things, but He brings in promise because men need it to encourage their faith. God's glory requires that every promise shall be fulfilled, and His heart requires that every purpose shall be fulfilled. What He purposed is the requirement of His love. Now the Word becoming flesh is the great affirmation of everything, and that is what the Lord says in the address to Laodicea, "These things says the Amen". He is the great affirmation of everything. Nothing that God has purposed, nothing that God has promised, can fail, because Jesus has come, and He is the Amen. Now when I speak of Jesus having come, I am not only referring to His days here in flesh. When John says in his epistle, "This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus the Christ", he is including under the term "he that came": His birth, His death, His resurrection and His ascension. He came into His present position of glory and testimony by water

and blood. His birth was essential, but He came into that position through His death, by water and blood; and it is as thus before God now that He is the Amen. "Whatever promises of God there are, in him is the Yea, and in him the Amen, for glory to God by us".

Then He is the faithful and true Witness. The church has broken down as a witness, but He remains the faithful and true Witness; the perfect setting out of the mind and will of God is seen in a glorified Man. And He is the beginning of the creation of God; everything in God's creation takes character from Him. Even in the present creation all things received being through Him. He is the beginning of everything, because everything receives being through Him; but in new creation everything is patterned after Him. How could you be lukewarm as regards a Person such as He?

I deplore the lukewarmness of my own heart, as I think of my whole life in testimony. One could not speak about being a Philadelphian, for how much one has been marked by what is Laodicean. "I would that thou wert cold or hot", the Lord says. Think of the Person one has been seeking to present, dear brethren. If we apprehend Him, how could we be lukewarm? What is the proof that we are not lukewarm? We bear witness! John the baptist was a burning and shining lamp. He was not lukewarm, he was burning. May the Holy Spirit set our hearts on fire in responsive love to this glorious Person, who at the close could say, "These things says the Amen", everything depends upon Him, "the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God"! Does it not stir your heart? Does your heart not begin to burn? Do you not feel that you would like to go outside and

proclaim His name and bear witness to Him? He is the faithful and true Witness. The church has broken down in witness. Why? Because of lukewarmness. The virgins who had the oil went out with flaming torches. In the East there were the torches, and the oil was poured on and the torches blazed. That is the idea of witness -- we go forth with blazing torches, which everyone can see. What a happy thing it would be if at the close of the dispensation that were to mark us all -- all like virgins with blazing torches, and going forth to meet the Bridegroom! What a testimony! That is proof of love for Christ.

"O kindle within us a holy desire,
Like that which was found in Thy people of old.
Who tasted Thy love, and whose hearts were on fire,
While waiting, in patience, Thy face to behold". (Hymn 194)

But then there is an added reason why we should love Him, and that is because He has said, "I go to prepare you a place". How much we should love Him because of His love for us! He could not bear to think of eternity without us. Thank God, we cannot bear to think of an eternity without Him. But think of Jesus saying, "Father, as to those whom thou hast given me, I desire that where I am they also may be with me". He loves us so much that He must have us there with Him where He is, with Him in the very inside place; and with Him in the nearest place that the creature can possibly be to Him, and to His Father and to His God. And so He says, "I go to prepare you a place; and if I shall go and shall prepare you a place, I am coming again and shall receive you to myself, that where I am ye also may be". What a place for us! How this should make our hearts burn. How could we be lukewarm if we understood this?

That brings me to the point of eternal life. Referring to that which was from the beginning, John speaks of what the apostles had heard, and seen with their eyes, and contemplated, and their hands handled, concerning the Word of life. He goes on to say, "We have seen, and bear witness, and report to you the eternal life, which was with the Father, and has been manifested to us". In Christ eternal life was seen at its highest level -- that eternal life was with the Father. What had they contemplated? An only-begotten with a father! The most exalted idea of life in man is seen in the Lord Jesus, and the relationship in which He lives as Man. But then while God has given Him authority over all flesh, so that as to all that He has given Him He should give them life eternal -- and that would apply to every family, for every family will come into eternal life on some level -- the saints of this dispensation come into it on the highest level that the creature can know. They are to be with Jesus where He is; in the direct presence of the glory radiant in Him. What a level of life we are brought into as brethren of Christ and sons of God! What a place is to be ours in actuality soon; but it is to be entered into now! The epistle is written that we might know that we have eternal life, and this life is in His Son; and it tells us that if we abide in that which we have heard from the beginning we shall abide in the Son and in the Father. Surely if we are dwelling in the Son and in the Father we are touching something of eternity now!

But later, in John 14, the Lord is seeking a place for Himself and for God, and seeking it even in an individual. John speaks of our dwelling in God and God in us. There could never be a place for God in

us, a dwelling place, if we did not first learn to dwell in God. We must first know the place prepared for us, at least in some measure. It is as we enter into those eternal relations of life in this wondrous economy that we are capacitated to think -- and in fact our hearts would require us to think -- of suitable conditions for Christ and for God. So He says, "He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me". Who could help loving Him? Has everyone here got His commandments? Have you ever troubled to read them? Do you know the first epistle to the Corinthians, the sermon on the mount, and John 13 by heart? If you do not know them, how can you say you have them? I would lay it upon everyone here to have the Lord's commandments. Get them into your mind, heart and soul! Do the young people love Jesus? Well, be sure you have His commandments ready at hand, in mind and heart. Under the new covenant God's laws will be written in mind and heart, but are the Lord's commandments in your mind and heart? "He that has my commandments and keeps them" -- the second thing is to keep them -- "he it is that loves me; but he that loves me shall be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will manifest myself to him". What a reward for us! But I am not thinking about that just now, but that we should all be lovers of Christ, and prove it by having His commandments and keeping them. That begins to provide a place for Christ and a place for God down here. He has prepared our place up there, but what about a place for Him here?

Then He goes on to say, "If anyone love me, he will keep my word". It means that you are near enough to Him to know the very longings of His

heart; not only the commandments, the essentials -- a commandment is a necessity of the Divine nature -- but His words, the longings of His heart, which He does not command, but counts on His lovers to supply. "If anyone love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him". It would imply in this connection that you are near enough to Christ to know just what is suitable to Him and to the Father in the way of abiding conditions. It is not just a manifestation. I am not belittling manifestations, but I feel we link Christianity with manifestations. Thank God for them! But do not let us link Christianity only with manifestations. If we love Him and keep His word, we shall be conscious of God dwelling all the time, because we shall be near enough to the Lord to know what is suited to Him and to His Father. God wants to be with us all the time -- not an occasional visit, but dwelling. "I will dwell among them, and walk among them"; that is not an occasional visit. There is plenty of room for what is special. But what about dwelling? "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him". Think of the Father and the Son moving together to come to him. Such an one already has the Spirit. This passage supposes that the believer already has the Spirit; you could not have the Lord's commandments and keep them without having the Spirit. It supposes that the Spirit is already in the believer; but now the Father and the Son are coming. "My Father will love him, and we will come to him" -- not just on a visit -- "and make our abode with him". I do not know of anything more blessed than this, from our point of view. Think of one person indwelt by the Spirit, and keeping Christ's word, and he has not

only the Spirit, but he has the Son and the Father! What a blessed thing! God dwelling -- the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit! The Spirit will remain, even if we grieve Him; but so long as we are grieving Him we shall never have the Father and the Son abiding with us. Oh, dear brethren, let us go in for what is permanent -- the abiding presence of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit!

Now while John 14 puts this on the individual plane, making it available for a day of small things, it shows at the same time the way of recovery, because it is persons affected thus who are in mind in 2 Timothy 2:22, "Pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace, with those that call upon the Lord out of a pure heart". Such love Christ and keep His word. If a number of individuals are doing that, you have a company, and that is the idea in the last days. By way of John's ministry individuals are secured, so that we have enough to carry things out collectively "with those". There are others doing the same.

So the address to Philadelphia shows that a place is being secured for God assemblywise, and that is what we are all to be concerned about. We must begin individually; but then the thing is to work matters out assemblywise. This requires much workmanship, much toil -- the work of the Lord. We are all privileged to be in it, to work with one another and help one another; so that there should be a company on earth, composed of individuals who have withdrawn from iniquity, who love Jesus and keep His word, and who are concerned for a place for God assemblywise. The Son has prepared a place for us. How much it means to Him if even one person provides conditions so that He can say, "We will come

to him, and make our abode with him"! The address to Philadelphia shows that the dispensation is to close with more than one. There is to be a place for God assemblywise amongst those who love Christ and keep His word, and that is what we are labouring for. Let us all be labouring; let not one here, young or old, be out this work. David is an example; he would not give sleep to his eyes, nor slumber to his eyelid, till he had found a place for Jehovah, habitations for the mighty One of Jacob. Our place is secure; but what about a place for God? We should not be behind David. I would speak to the young men and women here -- David was a young man when he made that vow in Psalm 132. What a thing it would be if all the young people left this meeting with a vow like David's in their hearts. They may be working for a living, and with a view to getting married and having a house of their own, but they are not going to rest in that. Their resolve is that whatever they have, and whatever they do, shall serve this great objective -- a place for Jehovah, habitations for the mighty One of Jacob. If we love Christ, if our hearts are burning, we could never have less than this in mind, because that is just what He had before Him. Jesus had in mind a place for us. He says, "I go to prepare a place for you". But in what a marvellous way Jesus had before Him a place for His God. Oh what an objective Christ had before Him! The temple of His God, the city of His God, and the tabernacle of God, these were the things that were before the heart of Christ. He would prepare a place for us; He loves us, and He could not bear eternity without our companionship in the place which He has prepared, so that we can dwell in God. But then He

wants us to be so formed in responsive love that there is, in us, a place for God.

Now this is a great matter. "These things saith the holy, the true; he that has the key of David". I have referred to David; it links on with this idea of a place for God. We must get down to this, dear brethren, for there is not much time left. We cannot claim to be Philadelphia. If we weigh things over, we may begin to see that we are in danger of Laodicea; we are very lukewarm. "A distracted heart" -- or is it 'mind'? -- "is the bane of a Christian", J.N.D. said. Oh to have a heart wholly set on Christ! "If anyone love me" -- what an appeal! Now when you come to the assembly side of the matter, you can see the link, because the Lord says to Philadelphia, "thou ... hast kept my word". In John 14 He is saying, "If anyone love me, he will keep my word"; but in Philadelphia He finds a company who have done it. What a joy to the heart of Christ that at the close there should be those to whom He can say, "I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an opened door, which no one can shut, because thou hast a little power, and hast kept my word". It rejoices my heart to think that there should be a company at the close who have kept His word, and have not denied His name. No lukewarmness there! He puts it in a negative way, "Have not denied", because all around there is the denial of Christ's name, His Deity, His glory and His redemptive work. But this company was not lukewarm; they were bearing witness. Their lamps were burning, their hearts were on fire, they loved Jesus and they kept His word. So that you see if we are concerned about a place within for God, there will be testimony without. If we love Christ, we shall be

keeping His word; and there will be a place suitable for Him and for His Father amongst us. But on the other hand there will be a flaming testimony without, and that is what we should have in mind at the close. Then He goes on to say, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience"; that is really endurance. Think of what the Lord has endured! You may say that the path is hard and difficult; there are so many obstacles. It says in Nehemiah, There is so much rubbish that the strength of the bearers of burdens fails; and that is the position today. There is so much rubbish to clear away from people's minds; how little patience we have got! You meet Christians, and you begin to put the truth to them, and they do not seem able to take anything in because there is so much rubbish there. Have we enough endurance to labour patiently to get rid of the rubbish? It may take a long time; but gradually the glory of Christ may begin to dawn upon them, and their affections may begin to be stirred. They begin to love Him, to have His commandments and to keep them. "The word of my patience" -- how Jesus endured! How He endured with the twelve -- what patience! How He has endured all through church history! We shall never get through with these things without endurance. "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee out of the hour of trial, which is about to come upon the whole habitable world, to try them that dwell upon the earth". He is referring there to the whole church being kept out of the hour of trial; He clothes the whole church with the qualities seen in Philadelphia. There are assembly conditions where the Spirit is free, and thus the Father and the Son can come and make their abode. What the heart

of God longs for is there, and the Lord clothes the whole church with that; and He will keep the whole church out of the hour of trial, because the true features of the church are seen in Philadelphia. How He would desire that they might be seen in us!

I would like to say another brief word as to 'commandment' and 'word'. The Lord's commandment in 1 Corinthians involves that we should govern ourselves by the truth of the cross, the passover, the altar and the body. Now without the working out of the truth of the body there will never be a place for God. That is basic. We must learn to walk and move bodywise. It is a testing thing, more testing than the family; but it is a question of working out the truth of the body locally, the members functioning in their place. But then what about the "word"? I feel that the keeping of His word is based upon the truth of the body. What the heart of Christ longs for is the bride, the wife. What His heart also longs for is a place for His God, the temple of His God, the city of His God. The body is the essential necessity if any of these other truths is to be known. There will never be, in a corporate way, bridal response to Christ, until we have learned to work together bodywise, and to be one in mind and heart and soul; and when those conditions are secured, which are a Divine command, we shall be able to answer to the longings of Christ's heart as the Bridegroom. And all this enters into the work at the moment, that there should be in every locality the chaste virgin to Christ, in principle. And, flowing from this, there will be the functioning of the temple of God, and the administration that is connected with the city of His God; and thus there will be a place for God. The features of the bride, the

wife, the temple, the house, the tabernacle and the city, should all come into expression in those who are available at the close. So the promise to the overcomer here is, as we have often noticed, "him will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more at all out; and I will write upon him the name of my God" -- how the Lord would write upon us now -- "and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven, from my God, and my new name". It is not, 'my new title'; it is not a question of title; it is what He is in Himself -- His name.

In closing I desire to say a brief word on government in this connection, and the Lord's part in it. We have all learned a little of the history of Europe, but you do not need to learn much from history books. What is known in the way of general knowledge is quite enough. But things the Lord says in the addresses to the churches bear on the history of Europe. He has made way governmentally for this revival, for a Philadelphian revival to take place. So He says to Thyatira in regard to Jezebel, "Behold, I cast her into a bed, and those that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works". These activities of the Lord have been specially manifested in the last 400 to 500 years; they largely account for the wars of Europe. The Lord has cast Jezebel into a bed; if He had not done so we should not be here tonight. Some of us were hearing last night what conditions are like in Spain, where Jezebel still has a good deal of sway. We could never be here like this had the Lord not cast Jezebel into a bed. Have you ever thanked Him for doing it? Have you ever spoken to Him about it, and asked Him to

keep her there? Do not let us look too lightly on Rome's efforts to regain power; let us speak to the Lord about it. Speak to Him about His promise to cast her into a bed. We cannot afford to let Jezebel revive; she never will, of course, because of the Lord's promise here; but then there is our side of it. "I will cast her into a bed, and those that commit adultery with her into great tribulation". So you find every country which has remained allied with Rome is in poverty, distress and great tribulation. What a mercy it is that the Lord has done this! Who could have handled Jezebel but He? It is a great, an awful, system; but the Lord has cast her into a bed. What a mighty One He is! But then He says to Philadelphia, "I have set before thee an opened door". It means, spiritually, an opened door into all the thoughts of God, by the Spirit; but it also refers to what is governmental as is seen in the recovery from Babylon of old. Have we thanked the Lord enough for the opened door which no one can shut? Jezebel would have shut it if she could; but she is in a bed. And those who keep up their links with her are in great tribulation. What a mercy! There could not be an opened door governmentally otherwise. The Lord says, "I have set before thee an opened door, which no one can shut". This again, no doubt, accounts for certain events and upheavals in Europe. The Lord is maintaining the opened door. Do not take any credit nationally for victory in this war or that. It is the Lord operating relative to the assembly. He is doing things. But in the address to Laodicea He says, "I rebuke and discipline as many as I love". Let us not forget that, while the Lord has promised an opened door that no one can shut, there

is, alongside the Philadelphian condition, the Laodicean condition, which we can easily slip into. Indeed I believe that if we thought we were Philadelphia, it would prove that we were Laodicean. Even in Philadelphia you have to be an overcomer to be a true Philadelphian. So the Lord says, "I rebuke and discipline as many as I love". Do not let us forget that, alongside the opened door, the Lord reserves the right to use government in a disciplinary way. We have proved that in the last two wars. I have no doubt that the last two wars have saved us by a narrow margin from Laodiceanism; the Lord has snatched us out of it by discipline. Thank God that, having allowed the discipline, He still maintains the opened door. Let us avail ourselves of the opened door -- governmentally, as well as spiritually. But all this should enhance the glory of Christ in our minds. He says, "He that overcomes, to him will I give to sit with me in my throne, as I also have overcome, and have sat down with my Father in his throne". Let us not forget that although the Father is the great Governor of the nations, the Son is with the Father in His throne, and the Son is concerned about everything which affects the assembly; and so He has His part in government in that sense. He says of Jezebel, "I cast her into a bed" -- not the Father. He says to Philadelphia, "I have set before thee an opened door"; and He says to Laodicea, "I rebuke and discipline as many as I love". The Lord is with the Father in His throne.

I trust these thoughts will remain with us. A place for us, connected with our very life in this great economy of love in which we shall live for ever; and then a place for God. It is going to be fully secured

in eternity, a place for God for ever; but our concern is a place for God now. That is what the Philadelphian would seek.

May the Lord grant that we may all be seeking this, for His Name's sake!