1 Corinthians 1:10 - 15; 1 Corinthians 4:6, 7; 1 Corinthians 5:2, 6 - 8; 1 Corinthians 12:1 - 6, 11 - 13

G.R.C. The thought in these readings is that we should consider the way Paul presents unity in the epistles to the Corinthians, Galatians and Ephesians. Having in mind the universal desire of the saints, it is in all our hearts that we should be preserved in increasing unity until the Lord comes, in the recognition that apart from it there can be no true portion for Christ, and no true portion for God. It has often been said that union cannot be enjoyed without unity, and it is interesting to keep in mind that in Paul's gospel treatise -- and what, I suppose, is the highest note in Romans -- he says, "that ye may with one accord, with one mouth, glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ", Romans 15:6. The working out of that, no doubt, involves Paul's ministry as a whole, but he brings it into his gospel treatise, showing that the great end in view is unison in praise; and I am sure it is before the minds of the brethren continually, that there should be unison in praise to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ universally on the earth. What must precede that is unity, and entering into the truth of union with Christ. In the revival the great truth that separation from evil is God's principle of unity was brought out, but, as this epistle indicates, unity cannot be maintained without dealing with what is within, that is, within ourselves. Outward separation is essential, but the history of those who profess to be outwardly separate shows that all along the line there have been hidden workings, to which, I suppose, we could trace every division that has occurred. There have been conflicts for the truth, but what

has made the conflict necessary has been the working of what is hidden, and that is what the old leaven signifies. It speaks of a woman hiding leaven in three measures of meal until the whole was leavened. And so in dealing with the state of things at Corinth the apostle begins with their lack of unity, and goes on to this hidden working. And one wondered whether we might consider the passover, and the feast of unleavened bread, as a continual necessity. The passover was initially celebrated in Egypt, but it was also celebrated in the wilderness and in the land; the idea being, one would judge, that the further we move on in spiritual experience and history the more we value the passover, and the more fully we appropriate it. It was eaten in Egypt, but the implications of it in Egypt were no doubt little understood. As we learn experimentally in the wilderness, there should be an ever-increasing appreciation of the implications of the passover, and in the land more still. If we dwell a little on that it may lead us on to chapter 12, where the positive side of unity is introduced, linked with the Holy Spirit.

A.B.P. Would the fact that the children of Israel moved out of Egypt in rank, following the eating of the passover, bear upon what you are saying as to unity?

G.R.C. It seems as though the idea of military array is included in that; and in the final idea of unity, as presented in Philippians, conflict is in mind, as it says, "ye stand firm in one spirit, with one soul, labouring together in the same conflict with the faith of the glad tidings", Philippians 1:27. So that, on the one hand, unity would lead us on to unison in praise, and, on the other hand, to be joined in one spirit and one soul, labouring together in the same conflict as Paul (see Philippians 1:30).

F.L.F. Does the passover get rid of the man in whom no unity could ever be found?

G.R.C. And then the exercise of purging out the leaven is a very important thing. One feels it is needed at the present time in every part of the world, and nowhere more than in oneself.

C.H. Before we move on to the passover, can we get your mind about this first scripture, as to how lordship in Christ bears upon the question of unity?

G.R.C. He says, "Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ", 1 Corinthians 1:10. They were concerned about leaders, but, in one sense, there is only One Leader. The word used for Leader, as regards Christ, is unique to Himself, the chief Leader, or the Captain; and it is Him we are to follow. The word "imitate" is used as to others, but the word "follow" as regards Christ Himself. So that there is one flock and one Shepherd, the great Shepherd of the sheep. He is leading the flock, and our eye is to be ever on Him. The apostles are the great examples, for they were men who never led away disciples after them. The dispensation started with twelve men who never led away a disciple after them, but always directed to Christ. So that we are said to be built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets -- we could not have been built on a foundation that lacked unity, or that was partisan -- and their names appear in the foundations of the wall of the city.

C.H. I was thinking of the exhortations in the end of Hebrews. We are to imitate the faith of the leaders, and we are to esteem them and obey them. But the difficulty in Corinth was not so much that the leaders were turning people after them, but some persons were following certain leaders of their choice.

G.R.C. Quite so. Therefore this word, "the name of our Lord Jesus Christ", should affect us. There is no other name under heaven given amongst men whereby we must be saved, and salvation involves following Him, as He said, "they follow me; and I give them life eternal". We are not in practical

salvation unless preserved under His leadership. Paul thanked God he had not baptised any of them except two, or three, that no one might say he had baptised unto his own name.

A.J.G. So that in Acts 5 the apostles rejoiced that they were counted worthy to be dishonoured for the Name.

G.R.C. Do you not think that the name of Jesus, or the Lord Jesus, is the testimonial name, the name of the great Leader? If people submit to His authority and are baptised to His name, they are also baptised to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, the name of God as declared.

C.H. May I ask why you are emphasising the Name, and not simply speaking of the Person? You speak of it as testimonial.

G.R.C. I was thinking of the renown, or fame, attaching to Christ, and, as you say, we are all in danger of attaching a certain renown or fame to those the Lord raises up in leadership, in a subordinate way down here. But, from the standpoint from which we are now speaking, there is only one Name. We are not to be occupied with the fame of leaders, although we obey and honour them. If we attach the idea of fame to leaders we shall become partisan. Fame attaches to one Man.

J.S.E. Is that why of Christ Himself alone the word "leader" is employed as connected with the One who sets things on? His renown is connected with His place as the originator, is it not? Paul disowns anything of that in relation to himself, so that he says, "lest anyone should say I baptised to my own name".

G.R.C. What renown attaches to Christ, the Originator, the chief Leader! He should fill the vision of our souls, and every true leader under Him would have that in mind, like John the Baptist, who said, "Behold the Lamb of God". He is the Person of

renown, so John's disciples now follow Jesus. But then there is the idea of imitating, but the only ground on which we can ask people to imitate us is that we are imitating Christ: "Be my imitators, even as I also am of Christ".

R.W. Is it seen in Acts 3, where Peter and John said, "Look on us", but not with intention to draw the man to them, for they refer immediately to the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene?

G.R.C. It is in the defence of that action that Peter says that there is no other name under heaven given amongst men whereby we must be saved; and then you have to note that while to the lame man he said, "Look on us", and it is a fact that those who are truly representative of Christ affect souls, and are to be looked at, yet, when it came to explaining the matter to the people, Peter said, "why do ye gaze on us as if we had by our own power or piety made him to walk?", Acts 3:12.

A.B.P. Is it not in that passage also that the word "originator of life" is used, and the footnote says, "It is a 'leader', but it is more. It is used for one who begins and sets a matter on?"

G.R.C. Quite so. And so the testimony of John the Baptist in John's gospel bears on what we have in mind. He was a prophet; indeed the Lord said he was the greatest of the prophets; and his prophecy is most extraordinary in its brevity and its scope; it is greater than any other prophecy up to that time, I would say. And he says, "Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world". Who could set that on? We sing:

Hark! Ten thousand voices crying
"Lamb of God!" with one accord. (Hymn 14)

In that gospel the Spirit of God has already shown that He is the "I am". The first three verses are an emphatic assertion that Jesus is "I am". But John presenting Him says, "Behold the Lamb of God".

We hail Him as the great "I am", but He is the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world. And then he goes on to say, "He it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit". Who could do anything like that? Who could set that on? What an index to the greatness of Christ!

L.E.S. Is it not important that in Isaiah 52 we read, "Therefore my people shall know my name; therefore they shall know in that day that I am HE, that saith, Here am I", Isaiah 52:6. And it is in this section where we have the thought of unity really stressed. It says, "Thy God reigneth!" and then, "for they shall see eye to eye, when Jehovah shall bring again Zion", verse 8. I am thinking particularly of the word, "Thy God reigneth!" as bearing upon the glory attaching to the Person of Jesus, and the bearing of His name upon His people.

G.R.C. Very good.

J.S.E. Is there not evidence of the peculiar jealousy of the Holy Spirit that He lays great stress on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the fellowship of God's Son, and brings home to the brethren the great need of the testimony of the Christ being confirmed amongst them? Is that to help us in the direction of Christ being everything and in all?

G.R.C. I am sure it is. The Corinthian epistle has in mind the tabernacle of testimony, has it not, and the testimony of the Christ was confirmed in them. The ark was enshrined in the tabernacle of testimony. But then the testimony of God was there too, as he says in chapter 2: 1, "announcing to you the testimony of God". The testimony of God is also in the tabernacle of testimony. So this book does not close without referring to God being all in all. There is a testimony to that in the tabernacle of testimony. So in the saints as viewed thus, there is a testimony to Christ, His greatness and His rights, and there is a testimony to God right on to the point of God being

all in all.

J.S.E. So that the allusion to the testimony of the Christ being confirmed amongst them must have reference to Christ personally, but coming, by way of these chapters, to chapter 12, where we get the allusion to the Christ, as connected with the vessel here, but solidly based on what you have emphasised, this matter of unity?

G.R.C. As I understand it, the title "the Christ" in chapter 12 does not exclude Christ personally. It is referring to the anointed vessel here, but Christ enshrined in it. What would it be without Him?

A.J.G. Have you in mind that if we had a true understanding of the testimony of the Christ on the one hand, and the testimony of God on the other, as committed to and enshrined among the saints, there is nothing that would be more unifying?

G.R.C. I am sure of that.

C.H. Does that not give emphasis to Paul's answer to those who said, "I of Christ". That might appear to run very near to what you are saying, but he said, "Is the Christ divided?"

G.R.C. Just so. It is noticeable that Christ is put last. Is not that the effect of men making much of human leaders? We see it rampant in Christendom. Look at the various divisions of Christendom! Christ is last. If you speak to people who are in them, Christ is usually the last Person they want to speak about. They will speak about their great men.

C.H. So in the Old Testament, "He that favours Joab, and he that is for David". It is the wrong order.

R.W.S. It says in verse 11, "For it has been shewn to me concerning you, my brethren"; not idle table talk, or gossip, but matters placed before Paul by the house of Chloe.

G.R.C. Quite so. They knew Paul's love for Christ, and that he was not a party man in any way.

J.T.Jr. So that, in spite of the divisions that existed,

the house of Chloe would indicate the power that was there to move in regard to the evil, which the saints are exhorted to be united about in chapter 5.

G.R.C. And is not that present in the body of the saints today?

J.T.Jr. It is, but there is a good deal of conflict in localities in regard to dealing with matters.

G.R.C. And is not the first thing that we have to deal with, the old leaven in ourselves?

J.T.Jr. No one but a self-judged person can properly deal with evil.

G.R.C. Quite so. So that while other epistles bring in what is external in the way of separation from evil, here the great point is what was within, and working in the company, something hidden. One has proved in oneself that this can go on without one being fully aware of it, this working of the old leaven. The scripture distinguishes between the old leaven and the leaven of malice and wickedness.

J.T.Jr. So that such a condition would hold up the proceeding with the matter.

G.R.C. I think the matter itself links with malice and wickedness, things which are manifest. What was, in some ways, morally worse than the sin of chapter 5, at which even the natural conscience would revolt, is the state in chapter 1. He deals first with the partisan state in Corinth that arose from the working of the old leaven. In chapter 4 Paul says that he transferred these things in their application to himself and Apollos for their sakes, "that ye may learn in us the lesson of not letting your thoughts go above what is written, that ye may not be puffed up one for such a one against another". Does that not show the way leaven works? There is this hidden working, and the result is we get puffed up one for such a one against another. It is leaven working; puffing up is the result of leaven.

J.T.Jr. So there could not be any proper judgment

where that is in action, and there will not be.

Rem. Two things come in here, one the "word of the cross", and the other this matter of leaven working in us.

G.R.C. I think what we should consider at the present time is the danger of leaven working in us. I believe it would be a salutary thing if throughout the world this exercise were taken up as to purging out the old leaven, that we might be a new lump.

H.V. Whilst we may be conscious of the working of the leaven, what is the remedy?

G.R.C. In the first instance, appropriating the passover Lamb. The lamb was roast with fire, its head and its legs and its inwards, and the whole was available for eating. If any was left over it was to be burnt, but the idea was that it was to be eaten. It stands in contrast to the priestly offerings where the inward parts, even of the peace-offering and the sin-offering, were for God. The passover is to be completely appropriated by ourselves, even the inwards.

T.U. Would the section from verse 18 to the end of chapter 4 help us as to naming this matter of being puffed up?

G.R.C. Quite so. If they did not do it themselves Paul was coming, and he would know not the word of those that were puffed up, but the power, and he would deal with all that was contrary. But his concern is that they should deal with it themselves.

J.S.E. Is that why the passover in chapter 5 is placed before us as an accomplished matter and used as a leverage so that we might celebrate the feast? So that Paul himself says, "Let us therefore celebrate the feast". The sacrifice of Christ is a complete and gloriously full matter, but now this devolves upon us to celebrate the feast, and then the old leaven and the leaven of malice and wickedness are brought before us. Does that really bring home our responsibility particularly in our local settings assemblywise? If

this is done in every locality, would it not make much more ease in universal unity?

G.R.C. I am sure it would. It is a celebration, a feast; it is a wonderful thing to be in a circle where leaven is not working, it is one of the greatest privileges we could conceive. The world is impregnated with leaven. Men are puffed up themselves, and puffed up one for such a one against another. The world is full of hypocrisy, men pretending to be what they are not. But to have a circle where there is sincerity and truth is a great celebration, a continual feast. But then there is no power to keep the feast of unleavened bread unless we have appropriated the passover, the head, the legs, and the inwards. Leaven works in our head, it works in connection with our legs, and above all it works in our inwards. We have been corrupted with leaven. The old leaven, as I understand it, was injected into the human race by the serpent at the beginning, "ye will be as God". Eve was corrupted by the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and, particularly, the pride of life.

R.G.B. Therefore does the passover suggest the judgment of sin in the most absolute and unsparing way vicariously in the Person of Christ?

G.R.C. Yes, and substitutionally. There is something very affecting about the passover in the way it presents Christ as our Substitute, and the only right answer to that is for Christ to be substituted for self in our lives; so Paul says, "no longer live, I, but Christ lives in me". There was complete substitution in Paul. Christ took our place, and bore the judgment due to us in our head, our legs and our inwards. Things are manifested through our head and our legs, but our inwards are particularly in mind in this purging out.

W.T. In Psalm 139:23 David says, "Search me, O God, and know my heart; prove me, and know my

thoughts".

G.R.C. Have we accepted the fact that leaven is in each one of us? It has been injected into the human race, the whole human race is leavened. The three measures of meal in the gospels no doubt refer to the Christian profession. Even that which began at Pentecost in a company where leaven was baken and inoperative, has become corrupted. Leaven has been brought in and has worked until the whole Christian profession is leavened. Have we each accepted the fact that this is working in us, unless it is judged, unless it is purged out? It must be dealt with drastically; purging out is a drastic word. Let us examine ourselves as to whether there is any puffing up about ourselves or about others. "Ye are puffed up", Paul says, "your boasting is not good". They had no true judgment about anything because they were puffed up. The moment you become puffed up or partisan, your judgment is impaired.

W.D. Is it to be noted that leaven always works in a lukewarm atmosphere?

G.R.C. I think an appropriation of the passover would bring about deep affection for Christ, and that is why I am referring to John the Baptist. He says, "Behold the Lamb of God". That title covers more than the passover, of course; it covers the immense scope of the sacrificial work of Christ. It would link no doubt with Genesis 22:8, "God will provide himself with the sheep", (or lamb -- see note on Exodus 12:3), "for a burnt offering". But then the way we begin to appreciate that is in the passover; we take to ourselves the lamb.

W.S.S. Would a reference to Deuteronomy 16:7 help, "And thou shalt cook and eat it at the place which Jehovah thy God will choose, and in the morning shalt thou turn and go unto thy tents". Is it to be worked out in individual exercise?

G.R.C. So that it is an assembly matter as well as

an individual matter. In Corinthians it is in an assembly setting, our passover, Christ, and "Let us celebrate the feast". It affects our assembly relations as well as our household relations.

J.H. Does the eating of the passover in Matthew 26 bear on this?

G.R.C. It says twice over, "as they were eating", referring to the passover. And the Lord brings in, that which would lead to each one proving himself. I would think that is involved in this purging out of the old leaven, "Let a man prove himself". And so He says, "one of you shall betray me", and each says, "Is it I?" They were each taking the thing home to themselves. Then it goes on to say later, "as they were eating" the Lord took the bread and instituted the supper, saying, "Take, eat: this is my body". That is food on a higher level.

R.M.Y. Why is the word 'sacrifice' used here? If I recall aright, the people were enjoined to kill the passover. "Has been sacrificed" would seem to bring God into the matter, would it not -- God having delivered up that blessed One for us.

G.R.C. Generally I think the word 'sacrifice' is used in connection with what Christ does for us. The peace-offering in the Old Testament is almost always called the sacrifice of peace-offering, and that offering refers to the way He loved us and gave Himself for us. And so here, Christ our passover has been sacrificed. It is a word that should touch our hearts.

H.C. Is the need for continuity of exercise indicated in the scripture in Luke 22:23? It says "And they began to question together among themselves who then it could be of them who was about to do this", and the next verse reads, "And there was also a strife among them which of them should be held to be the greatest".

G.R.C. It is an extraordinary thing that that should

occur at the supper table. Strife as to who should be the greatest is the leaven working, it is the puffing up. The Lord speaks of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees in Matthew, and of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod in Mark. The leaven of the Pharisees is hypocrisy, in contrast to sincerity and truth; while the leaven of Herod would specially bear on the strife as to who should be the greatest. Herod was an Idumean, and what marks the genealogy of Edom in Genesis 36 is the large number of chiefs and kings. There were kings in Edom before there was a king in Israel. The idea of human greatness dominated Edom and dominated Herod, and that idea was dominating the Corinthians; they were reigning as kings, puffed up. Therefore they were just babes in Christ, when they ought to have been grown men.

J.M. It says in Exodus 13:9, in regard to the feast of unleavened bread, that "it shall be for a sign to thee on thy hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the law of Jehovah may be in thy mouth". Do you think that keeping the feast would make way for the law of Jehovah? Would Paul have that in mind in Corinth?

G.R.C. I am sure of that. It shows how important the feast is. The absence of leaven will impress our children. They go to school, and hear men made much of; leaven is on every hand; but they come home and find something entirely different.

C.H. You distinguished earlier between the old leaven and the leaven of malice and wickedness. Will you please explain that?

G.R.C. I thought the old leaven was the hidden working of things, referring to what was injected into Eve at the beginning. It speaks of corruption in that connection in 2 Corinthians 11:3. It refers to puffing up or inflation. "Ye shall be as God" -- what could be more inflating than that? The old leaven

is in every one of us; that is the thing to face. It is not a question of looking at someone else, this thing is in me, and have I purged it out?

--.W. Does the expression in Exodus 12:5, "Your lamb shall be without blemish, a yearling male", help as to a substantial appreciation of Christ?

G.R.C. It does, and it also shows the idea of substitution which ought to affect us deeply, "your lamb". Christ really did take my place, in connection with my head, my legs, and my inwards. My inwards were the worst of all. His head was perfect, as also His legs: "Looking on Jesus as He walked", and the inwards! -- think of all the fragrance that went up from the altar relative to the inwards of Christ! In connection with the lamb I am to appropriate the whole, the head and the legs and the inwards. I am to see the contrast between myself and Christ; and the only answer to it is "No longer live, I", the man has got to go, "but Christ lives in me".

W.S.S. Unless we do so we could not keep the feast of unleavened bread.

G.R.C. Quite so. And then, if the old leaven is allowed, we shall get the leaven of malice and wickedness. The old leaven was injected into Eve; the leaven of malice and wickedness came out in Cain, who killed his brother. We have to remember that puffing up will lead to murder, spiritual murder if not actual.

A.S.B. Does the mourning of verse 2 stand over against the puffed-up condition to help us feelingly into the sacrificial side, and then to celebrate the feast?

G.R.C. Sad moral failures occur, and we should mourn, so that we may be helped to purge out the old leaven in ourselves. It is the working of the old leaven that makes way for these moral breakdowns which disgrace the Lord's name.

A.P.C.L. Is it instructive that before he passes on to the passover he says, "according as ye are unleavened"? Would that be affections in the minister, corresponding, in his thoughts as to the saints, with what is in the mind of God?

G.R.C. It is a great thing to be able to take the abstract view. There is the work of God in the saints, and God is looking at that; and Paul is looking at that as he addresses them at the beginning, and also in chapter 6 where he says, "Ye are washed, ye are sanctified, ye are justified". It is a wonderful thing that whatever the practical conditions among the saints are, if they really are saints of God we are privileged to take an abstract view. And God is taking an abstract view. He could not go on with us otherwise.

P.L. But there is that which is concrete at Corinth that gives warrant, so to speak, for Paul referring to the abstract.

G.R.C. Very good. The work of God is always concrete; but there must be something concrete in evidence.

C.H. Does not the second epistle confirm that, for he speaks of their proving themselves in every way pure, not merely right. Is not purity, or purifying, the point here?

J.A.P. Is the suggestion that the power of the kingdom of God is necessary, as in chapter 4, verse 20?

G.R.C. I am sure it is, and that is where the Spirit comes in, and that is the point in John the baptist's prophetic witness. He speaks of the Lamb of God, and then he brings in the only remedy, "He it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit". If we had not the Spirit, our case would be hopeless. The very fact that our head and legs and inwards are all wrong, means that we are entirely dependent on the Spirit. We are dependent upon Him even for our thoughts. We

are not competent of ourselves, Paul says, even to think anything as of ourselves. So we are dependent on the Spirit as to head and legs and inwards.

A.J.G. In addition to the lever to our affections which the passover presents, Paul shows us in his second epistle that when he ministered amongst the Corinthians he had espoused them to one man, that he might present them a chaste virgin to Christ. There is not only the death of Christ and the appeal of it, but then there is what Christ is Himself, as the one Man, is there not?

G.R.C. I am glad you have brought that in because it completes John the baptist's testimony in John's gospel. He begins with the Lamb of God and goes on to speak of the baptism of the Spirit, but his final testimony is, "He that has the bride is the bridegroom". That is the result in mind, that the Bridegroom should have the bride, and who would want anything less than that? And the man in whom leaven is judged says, "He must increase, and I must decrease".

J.Hr. John the baptist had two or three unique opportunities to exalt himself as presented in the beginning of the gospel, when persons asked him what he had got to say, but he was so deflated that, he only exalted Christ.

G.R.C. That is very interesting, because in John 1:19 it says, "And this is the witness of John, when the Jews sent from Jerusalem priests and Levites that they might ask Him, Thou, who art thou?" The first thing in his witness, according to that passage, is what he witnessed about himself; he witnessed that he was nothing but a voice, and not worthy to be a slave, and then he bears witness to Christ. He was the greatest of the prophets. In a few verses he brings in what had never been disclosed before, first the Lamb of God, the taker-away of the sin of the world, then the One who baptises with the Holy Spirit, and

finally the Bridegroom and the bride.

J.T.Jr. And he deals drastically with the Pharisees and the Sadducees.

N.W. Has there not been considerable sorrow amongst us over the years on account of puffing up from business matters and social matters?

G.R.C. I am sure we need to take account of those things. That is why we have to judge and reject social or business influence in the Christian circle.

A.J.G. Do you feel that what the Lord is at at the present time is not simply, or not mainly, to bring in increased understanding of the truth with us, but to bring about greater correspondence practically with Christ personally, who is the great standard of all that is pleasing to God in manhood?

G.R.C. I think so, and I believe the substitutionary idea is very important in that connection. He took our place in bearing the unmitigated wrath of God, as typified in the lamb roast with fire, and thus Paul speaks of "the Son of God who has loved me, and given Himself for me". Then there is the substitutionary idea in Paul -- "no longer live, I, but Christ lives in me".

A.J.G. So that if we find that the demand of the truth calls for reduction in circumstances, we can never get less circumstances than the Lord entered into. For our sake He being rich, lived in poverty, it says, according to J.N.D.'s French version.

G.R.C. It is a good thing to take that to heart. And so the side of things we are engaged with stresses the need of purging out what is inward. There is the further matter, malice and wickedness, of which Cain is the example, leading even to murder. But before that comes to light let us purge out the old leaven which, if it is allowed to work, will result in the malice and wickedness. The Lord's word about the Pharisees in Matthew 23 bears on it. In Matthew 16 the Lord speaks of the leaven of the

Pharisees and Sadducees, and it says they understood that He was speaking of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees. If you look at their doctrine, the Lord says, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the dish ... Blind Pharisee, make clean first the inside of the cup and of the dish, that their outside also may become clean", Matthew 23:25. We are rightly much concerned nowadays that the outside might be clean, but let us begin by seeing that the inside is clean.

J.T.Jr. Is not 2 Timothy 2 the way to it, the inward side being judged, calling on the Lord out of a pure heart?

G.R.C. The pure heart is what is needed.

E.C.R. Is it not significant that the true and genuine recoveries that came in in Kings, particularly under Josiah, are particularly linked with the reinstitution of the passover?

G.R.C. It is. Josiah's passover was a remarkable thing, Hezekiah's too.

S.G. Would this partisan spirit rob us of the gain of those Christ has given to the assembly? Paul says in Corinthians that "all things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos .."..

G.R.C. Quite so, and in so doing it would rob us of the gain of the Spirit. The Spirit cannot go on with leaven. If we want the help of the Spirit, and if we want manifestations of the Spirit in our localities, we must purge out the old leaven. The Spirit of God cannot go on with leaven.

C.H. Do you think the Lord, in the present questions, is not only raising questions of righteousness, but questions of holiness? I think we ought to get more into that, because it relates, does it not, to the service, "Without holiness no one shall see the Lord". It is the inward state as well as the outward circumstances. The circumstances of Christ have been

referred to touchingly by Mr. G., but there was also what was inward in perfection in Christ, in the repudiation of evil in the holy nature that was His. I was thinking that the Spirit of God wrought that out in some measure with the Corinthians in that Paul says "ye have proved yourselves to be pure", not merely right.

G.R.C. Very good.

R.W.S. Was the cup added, as we have in the synoptic gospels? Do we read of the cup in the Old Testament? I wondered about the joy that we should enter into as leaven is judged.

G.R.C. The leaven being judged should be prior to the supper, as we have been saying. It was as they were eating the unleavened bread that the Lord instituted the supper. The cup would speak of joy and satisfaction -- we have all been made to drink of one Spirit. As regards chapter 12, a great chapter dealing with unity, whilst John the baptist's testimony is consistent in drawing attention to the Lord as the One who baptises with the Holy Spirit, so that he makes the Lord rightly prominent, as He ever must be, yet in chapter 12, verse 13, it rather stresses the Spirit Himself, "For also in the power of one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bondmen or free, and have all been given to drink of one Spirit". And that seems to be in keeping with the way the Lord stresses the Person of the Spirit in the first of Acts. He links on with John, in verse 5, "John indeed baptised with water", but instead of saying, 'I will baptise you with the Holy Spirit', He says, "but ye shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit after now not many days". It does not in any way detract from the glory of Christ as the One who does baptise with the Holy Spirit, but I wondered if we should note the way the Lord puts it. He is desiring in the first of Acts, one would judge, to bring forward the Person

of the Holy Spirit. So He charges them by the Holy Spirit, and then He says, "ye shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit". He allows Himself for the moment to be not so prominent as John the baptist made Him. And then in verse 8, "ye will receive power, the Holy Spirit having come upon you". I wondered if there is something to learn from that, that the Lord Himself would bring forward the personality of the Holy Spirit. And 1 Corinthians 12 does that in a remarkable way, because verse 11 stresses His sovereignty: "But all these things operates the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each in particular according as he pleases". Deity is involved there.

J.T.S. Would the word in Acts 11:15, "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them even as upon us also at the beginning", bring into prominence the Spirit Himself?

G.R.C. Yes, in connection with the body. He was bringing the Gentiles in, they were being baptised and brought into this one body, and, as you say, it is viewed as the Holy Spirit's own action, He fell upon them.

H.B. Does the insistence on the repeated thought of the "same Spirit", and the "one Spirit", stand over against the disunity at Corinth, and which may mark us?

G.R.C. I think so, so there is the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God; but then, following that, the Spirit is stressed, His sovereign will in verse 11, and then the fact that in one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body, and have all been given to drink of one Spirit. There could not be unity apart from the Spirit. The Spirit is essential in the matter that is before us, as we know.

F.J.F. Do we not realise that at the supper?

G.R.C. I think we do. It has often been said that verse 13 has a bearing on the supper; we have all been baptised into one body linking with the loaf,

and drinking of one Spirit linking with the cup. So that in the realm of lordship, the Spirit is prominent, whether we think of Romans 8, or 1 Corinthians 12, or 2 Corinthians 3. In the realm of lordship the Lord Jesus Himself would seem to give a certain prominence to the Spirit, and our thankful hearts would recognise our indebtedness to Him, in baptising us into one body, and giving us satisfaction; but in the realm of headship as in Colossians the Spirit recedes, He is not in view at all in that epistle. There is the one reference to love in the Spirit, but the Spirit personally is not in view at all.

P.L. So that the testimonial position is in mind in Acts 1, and in Corinthians, and the tabernacle was anointed with the holy oil. While the Lord asserts the peculiar place of the Spirit in the testimony, the Spirit on His part, in the inward position, bearing on divine counsels, magnifies Christ as Head, does He not?

G.R.C. Does not Colossians show that? The Spirit would ever magnify Christ. But it is just a matter for consideration whether, at the time of the supper itself, the Lord might not impress us with the Spirit's service.

A.P.A. Does not the new meat-offering in Leviticus 23 suggest a real possibility of reaching what we are speaking of, the fact that it is baken with leaven?

G.R.C. The epistle to the Corinthians would show that the new meat-offering would characterise every locality where things are right.

J.S.E. If we took advantage of all being given to drink of one Spirit, would we not have more liberty in relation to the Lord Himself? And is not that pursued in chapter 3 of the second epistle, "The Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty. But we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed ..".. It

seems to me that in the present exercises, if we could be more clear as to the jealousy that is with the Spirit as to the glory of Christ, and the jealousy that is with Christ as to the place of the Spirit, we should get a more balanced view of matters.

G.R.C. What you say is a help. I think we have to take account of the scripture in Acts 1, and this passage, and in fact the place that the Spirit has generally in the realm of lordship, the way much is made of Him in that sphere. But when you come to the realm of headship in Colossians, He recedes. If we get the gain of His service in the realm of lordship, He will make everything of Christ. Is that what you have in mind?

J.S.E. Yes, and when we come to the epistle to the Ephesians, in the only exhortation to us to be filled with the Spirit, the Lord is the objective, "singing and chanting with your heart to the Lord".

G.R.C. Quite so.

M.H.T. Does not Joshua 5, in a kind of way summarise what we have had before us, the circumcision of the new generation, the keeping of the passover, then the man with the drawn sword rebuking every element of what is partisan?

G.R.C. That is a very helpful passage, because Joshua, as J.T. used to say, shows the tendency of young people, the best of them, to be partisan. He had shown partisanship earlier, had he not, in wanting those who were prophesying in the camp to be forbidden? But I take it he got clear of partisanship completely in Joshua 5.

SECOND READING

2 Corinthians 2:14; 2 Corinthians 3:4 - 18; 2 Corinthians 4:1 - 12

G.R.C. In this reading the thought in mind is unity in the apprehension of "our gospel", referred to in chapter 4: 3, and therefore unity in the representation of God, both in our dealings with one another and with men, that unity being set out in chapter 3: 18, "we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit". We rightly use that verse relative to the transformation that, goes on when we are engaged in the service of God, but the verse also has in mind the substantial and permanent transformation that comes from looking on the glory of the Lord so that the same image is seen in us all, the true image of God in that sense, remembering of course that Christ Himself is the image, we express it in measure, "the radiancy of the glad tidings of the glory of the Christ, who is image of God".

The apostle is speaking of himself and those with him generally because he could not yet say much about the company at Corinth. He begins in the first verse we read by saying that God "makes manifest the odour of his knowledge through us in every place". Now that should have marked the Corinthians in their own place. Two of the features that marked the tabernacle of testimony were the odour and the light; the tabernacle was replete with fragrant odour, the holy anointing oil was a perfume after the work of the perfumer, so that if any came in proximity to the tabernacle they would be impressed by the odour. And so as persons come into touch with the saints in localities and come into meetings, they should be indelibly impressed with the

odour of the knowledge of God. Paul brings himself and those with him forward as examples to encourage the Corinthians as representative of God in Corinth, to take it on, that the odour of the knowledge of God might be there. Then also in the tabernacle there was light, but not in the way light is shining now, because it could not be in those days. Moses had liberty at all times to go into the presence of God, and when he went in he took the veil off his face, but when he came out he put the veil on, because he had not a ministry that would bring other people into the gain of what he had. So that light was not shining at that time in the way we have it now. But in the true tabernacle, which the Lord has pitched and not man, odour and light should be characteristic; and odour and light will only be characteristic as we are in the gain of "our gospel" ourselves, and, therefore, continually in the holiest ourselves, looking on the glory of the Lord. Moses could go in at any time into that which was a figure; we can go in at any time, into that which is the true. It should be characteristic of us, every one of us, "we all", it says, "looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face".

J.McK. Do you connect the idea of radiancy with our arriving at the same image, on the line of the representation of God?

G.R.C. Yes, according to chapter 4: 6, "Because it is the God who spoke that out of darkness light should shine who has shone in our hearts for the shining forth (or 'radiancy') of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ". It is a radiancy in our faces, and in our bodies. Is that right?

J.McK. It seems very interesting and instructive that this radiancy or shining forth of knowledge should proceed; would that be consequent upon the Spirit's place down here; not only Christ on high, but

the Spirit's place and service down here?

G.R.C. I think so, because the odour is from the holy anointing oil, and I suppose that should be the first thing that impresses a person who comes into proximity with what is of God, the odour of His knowledge. It is something that is indescribable, and it would lead him to give attention to the persons with whom that odour is connected, and in doing so he should see this radiance.

C.H. As to this matter of light, can you tell us what place the truth as to the temple of God has in chapter 3 of the first letter, and its bearing upon our subject of unity?

G.R.C. The holy of holies is the innermost shrine. It is the temple of the tabernacle that is in mind here. The temple is a term that applies to the holiest in the tabernacle, as well as to the oracle of the house that Solomon built. The first mention of the temple in scripture is the temple of the tabernacle, 1 Samuel 1, and the second reference is to Samuel being in the temple of Jehovah where the ark of God was. That also was the temple of the tabernacle, and, I take it, that is what is in mind in Corinthians. The saints are viewed in these epistles as the tabernacle of testimony, forming the very shrine of God, and of course, that is known when we are assembled, if we are rightly assembled, in a fuller way than it could be known individually. Whatever we may look upon, or enter into, individually, is greatly enhanced when we are together.

C.H. I wanted to get the bearing on the collective setting of what we may come into individually.

G.R.C. I believe there is a very close bearing because it seems to me that unless we frequent the holy of holies individually there will be a lack when we are together. We should be accustomed to the presence of God in our normal approach and devotions, and then, when we come

together, everything that we have entered into in our individual approach is greatly enhanced and enriched.

C.H. I was wondering whether it did not relate to the three things you mentioned this morning, the head and the legs and the inwards, and especially the head; whether the temple did not stand related to the expressed mind of God as light comes in the temple, and would free us from independency of thought, so that unity is brought about in that way.

G.R.C. That is very good. You mean that if our own head is negated, and our legs and inwards, we are open to receive what is coming from God in the temple.

C.H. I wondered whether that is where the extension of what comes through an authoritative lead under the hand of Christ, is extended to all the saints, so that all get the gain of it.

G.R.C. It says, "we all" (it is not simply the ministers) "looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image, from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit".

J.S.E. Is the divisive state in the first epistle explanatory of the fact that the matter of the temple is put to them interrogatively? "Do ye not know?" Whereas in the part that you are at now, it is a statement without any qualification, is it not? Is that not an indication that there is a good measure of adjustment with the brethren?

G.R.C. I would say that. They were beginning to apprehend what "our gospel" means, and what it brings us to. But I suppose we can always do with help as to "our gospel".

J.S.E. I thought that the allusion to "our gospel" aptly flowed out of these last two verses, "we all, looking".

R.M.Y. Would you say just what you have in your mind as to "our gospel". Who are the "our", and

what is the peculiarity of that gospel?

G.R.C. Primarily the "our" no doubt is Paul and those with him. It is the gospel they carried. But still it is the gospel the radiance of which should be shining out in every company. It is a matter of radiancy; and so he says, "if our gospel is veiled". It was not veiled in Paul. Paul and those with him stand in contrast to Moses in chapter 3: 13, "not according as Moses put a veil on his own face". Moses could go in, he took the veil off when he went in, but when he came out he put the veil on. One feels sorry for Moses. He had a privilege which he could share with nobody, because he had not a ministry, he had not a gospel which could put anybody where he was. He was alone there. But, in contrast, we can go in. Paul and those with him could go in and continually went in and looked on the glory of the Lord with unveiled face. That is, they had no veil on their faces when they went in, nor on their hearts. He speaks of a veil on the heart in verse 15. We are to have no veil on our faces, and no veil on our hearts, as we go in. There is certainly no veil on the face of Christ, but we are to have no veil. But then in coming out we do not need to put a veil on, because we can come out to one another and to men, whatever the state of the brethren may be, and whatever men we meet, we can come out in full radiancy, because we can say to anybody, "We have a ministry, which is capable of putting you where we have been". That is our gospel -- a ministry of the Spirit and a ministry of righteousness, from the glory, to fit men for the glory. We have a gospel which will put any man just where we are, in the very presence of glory, and at home in it.

F.J.F. That was seen in Philippi's jail, was it not?

Ques. Is it connected with verse 19 of chapter 1, "the Son of God, Jesus Christ, he who has been preached by us among you"?

G.R.C. I think the preaching of the Son of God, Jesus Christ, would be the full testimony, and would include sonship. Paul is writing to these believers as sons, his opening address in the letter shows that, "Grace to you, and peace from God our Father". I am not saying they knew much about sonship practically, but they were sons. The Son of God would be the full testimony, to bring persons into the full gain of the gospel which includes sonship. But he is bringing out here the moral features of the ministry. He could approach any man, or approach the brethren at Corinth, whatever their state. He had a ministry which if they would give heed to it, would put them where he was, in the very presence of the glory.

--K. Is the radiancy seen at the end of Acts 26, where Paul speaks of "such as I am, except these bonds"?

G.R.C. Indeed it is. Now there is always a danger for us to go back to the letter. We can apply Christian commandments in the letter; we can tell people they must follow Christ, in the way of demand. But the principle remains that the letter kills, but the Spirit quickens, and it is this radiancy which is needed to mark us as those who know our place ourselves, and are continually in the presence of God individually, and who know what the temple is collectively, and are continually in the presence of God collectively, and who do not put a veil on our faces when we come out. The transformation is substantial, it is to remain; we are not to be something when we are with God and in the meetings, and something different when we are outside.

C.deK.K. Is that why the apostle says that he speaks as before God and of God in Christ?

G.R.C. I think so.

H.C. Is there an allusion in Acts 19:12, where napkins and aprons were brought from Paul's body,

and they affected the sick?

G.R.C. It says there that they were no ordinary miracles; but the fact that his body is mentioned bears on what we are saying. There was a radiancy about the man, the life of Jesus was manifested in his body.

A.B.P. Does Paul's word to the Thessalonians, "in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ", show how effective the gospel was in the brief time that he was at Thessalonica?

G.R.C. So that they were in the family, and in the kingdom.

J.T.Jr. The unity of the ministers is, I would think, in mind. In the first verse you read (chapter 2: 14) and also the 3rd chapter, the "us", I would think, alludes to the ministers.

G.R.C. I would think that. It was they who were being led in triumph in Christ. But then it seems to me that what they set up in a place was intended to be marked by the same odour. The odour of the knowledge of God was to mark the tabernacle of testimony.

J.T.Jr. They were in unity, those ministers. It is right for the ministers to be in unity.

G.R.C. That is a primary matter.

J.T.Jr. Ministers are to be in unity. The gospel is the gospel of Christ, it is the gospel of the blood and the water.

F.J.F. There had been a great victory, had there not, before that simile was referred to? When the Romans had a great victory they had those processions, and the procession reflected the great victory that they were in the enjoyment of.

G.R.C. Quite so, and there has been a great victory effected at Calvary. The basis of these chapters is the end of chapter 5, "Him who knew not sin he has made sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in him". That is the basis of all this.

C.H. What had Mr. T. in mind in referring to the blood and the water?

J.T.Jr. It is the essential feature of the gospel; Romans 3, Romans 6, John's epistles bring it out, the water and the blood; not only blood, not only water. The gospel is here set forth by Paul, I would understand, and those with him, in the full thought.

C.H. You have got something specially in your mind about the water as well as the blood.

J.T.Jr. Well, if there is difference in the ministry, where is it? If the ministers are not saying the same thing, I would think it refers to the water.

G.R.C. The tabernacle of testimony was erected after the Red Sea, so that there was the water; the blood in the passover, and the water in the Red Sea.

M.H.T. Is it striking that in Judges 7, all Gideon's three hundred men were to do as he did. They broke their vessels that the light might shine. There is a reference to the treasure in earthen vessels in 2 Corinthians.

G.R.C. Yes, that has often been linked with chapter 4: 7, as to the way the light shines out.

R.W.S. I should like some help as to 1 Corinthians 15:3, where Paul speaks of "For I delivered to you, in the first place, what also I had received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures; and that he was buried; and that he was raised again the third day, according to the scriptures", and then the allusion that you have made to the ministry of the Spirit and the ministry of righteousness. Is there something additional now in the second epistle?

G.R.C. I think the passage in 1 Corinthians 15 gives the great basis of all, that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures, and that He was buried; that brings in the idea of the water, He was buried, and He was raised again the third day according to the scriptures. There we have the basis of the gospel, but here it is the gospel of the glory. It comes

to us now as the gospel of the glory because Jesus is glorified, and the ministers, Paul and those with him, were looking on the glory of the Lord with unveiled face. So that this is a ministry from the glory, to fit men for the glory.

W.H. Would that involve the purpose of God for men as seen in Christ in glory?

G.R.C. Yes, quite so. It is a wonderful thing to lay hold of the idea that "our gospel" is a ministry from the glory which brings with it all that is requisite to fit men for the glory, but it can only be commended and expressed in those who themselves are transformed, according to the same image from glory to glory, so that there is a representation of God in unity amongst the saints.

J.H. Might I refer to verse 14 again, "But thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in the Christ"; that God has full possession of them; and then "makes manifest the odour of His knowledge through us in every place". God having full possession of the ministers first, they evidencing the victory, and then the odour of the knowledge of such a God in every place. Do we need to understand the completeness of God's acquisition of us in view of representing Him thus?

G.R.C. I am sure that is right. 1 Corinthians 15:57 speaks about the victory. It says, "Thanks to God who gives us the victory by our Lord Jesus Christ", relative to the fact that He died for our sins and was buried, and was raised again the third day, and that involves the water as well as the blood. It involves that we are in moral victory.

J.H. I was thinking of the expression, "the odour of his knowledge". The odour surely is the outcome of anointing by the Spirit, referring to chapter 1: 21. God has anointed us.

G.R.C. That is why I think the gospel is set out here. The ministers who carry it are in the light of

Christ glorified, and man's place in glory with Him.

R.G.B. Paul's first touch came from Christ in glory, and there was immediate evidence of a change in the man.

J.T.Jr. So you would say that the ministry of Peter's first preaching took them as far as the Spirit, the gift of the Spirit. The Spirit is evidently in view in a very definite sense in this chapter.

G.R.C. It says in John 7 that the Spirit was not yet because Jesus was not yet glorified. Peter says, does he not, being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has shed forth this. So that there was the anointed vessel, they were baptised into one body, and were anointed, and it was evident that they had all been made to drink of one Spirit, filled spiritually with the new wine, and there was a wonderful testimony, a wonderful outshining.

A.B.P. And they are spoken of as "in one accord".

G.R.C. Quite so. There was unity.

A.H. Does the end of chapter 4: 2 confirm what you have in mind, "commending ourselves to every conscience of men before God". I am thinking of your reference to the odour, and wondering if in view of the inward exercises of these servants, what they have renounced, and so forth, this wonderful word can be said, that no fault can be found with them as ministers.

G.R.C. That is a great point, and would bear on what we had this morning. "We have rejected the hidden things of shame, not walking in deceit, nor falsifying the word of God, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every conscience of men before God". That laid the basis for the radiancy.

A.W.G.T. Does that mean that the ministers were using the water that has been suggested?

G.R.C. It does.

J.O.S. In Acts 24:16, when Paul was before the Roman governor, he says that he exercised himself "to have in everything a conscience without offence towards God and men".

G.R.C. These are basic moral features, with a view to our being ourselves at home in the presence of the glory, and becoming radiant in the expression of it. These ministers are radiant ministers, but their intention was that it should mark the whole company at Corinth, "we all looking on the glory of the Lord with unveiled face". And what one would suggest in the first instance is our unification in the apprehension of the gospel as set out here, the gospel of the glory: a gospel from Jesus glorified. It is from the glory, fitting men for the glory. So that we do not need to veil our faces, we can radiate the glory of God, and we should be radiating it in our measure, because we have the ministry which will put others in the same place as ourselves: that is a ministry of the Spirit, and a ministry of righteousness. We are not coming out to men on the line of demand, we are coming out to men with full supplies from the glory, that will fit men for the glory, so that they themselves are at home in the glory: whether we think of the approach individually, as entering the holy of holies constantly, or whether we think of the assembly as temple of God, we have a ministry which will fit men for it.

P.L. Would that be seen in full in the best robe brought forth by the servants wherewith to clothe the prodigal?

G.R.C. Quite so. What could be better than the free gift of righteousness. and the gift of the Holy Spirit?

T.U. Would the end of chapter 2: 17, "but as of sincerity, but as of God, before God, we speak in Christ" link?

G.R.C. That again bears back on what we had

this morning, the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth; there is transparency with the ministers. There is no question of the glory shining through if there is not transparency. I think we need to be grounded in the terms of our gospel in our relations with one another as well as our relations with men, that we may be free altogether from the legal system, the system of demand. We have a ministry of supply, a ministry of the Spirit, and a ministry of righteousness, which fit men for the glory.

F.J.F. Is that why they called themselves ambassadors, coming from, as it were, a great monarch, carrying with them the sense of the greatness of where they had come from?

G.R.C. Yes, he touches on that in chapter 5: 20, "We are ambassadors therefore for Christ, God as it were beseeching by us". They came from the very presence of the great King. The idea of an ambassador is a wonderful thought, and links with what Paul says in 1 Timothy 1. He speaks of the gospel of the glory of the blessed God, and that is what we are engaged with, but he goes on to say "Now to the King of the ages". That blessed God, from whom Paul was bringing this ministry from the glory, to fit men for the glory, was the King of the ages, and Paul was His ambassador. And in every way he commended the great King who sent him.

J.S.E. Is there any connection of these two last verses of chapter 3, with the Lord coming and standing in the midst. When He comes, does He not bring the glory with Him, so that it becomes easy for us, as under the control of the Spirit, to engage ourselves with it?

G.R.C. I think so. And it is in view of our unification. We are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, that we should be unified in the representation of God.

J.S.E. That is the image of the glory, is it not, and

does not that bring home to us the great value of making use of the Spirit so that we are assisted in discerning the Lord when He comes in, and being assisted in engagement with His glory as having come amongst us?

G.R.C. That brings up the question which was raised this morning as to the Spirit in the lordship setting, does it not? We have a stress on the Spirit in this chapter, the ministry of the Spirit, the Spirit quickening too. That surely stresses the greatness of His Person. And then it says, "the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit". One would like help oneself as to why the Spirit is so stressed in the lordship setting. I find in Romans 8 a great stress on the Spirit, not only His characteristic services, but His Person, the Spirit itself, or as we might say in English, the Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit. Twice over it speaks of the Spirit itself. Then in 1 Corinthians 12 the Spirit is brought forward; it is in His power we are baptised into one body, so that we cannot help being grateful to Him. In the power of one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body, and have all been given to drink of one Spirit. His sovereign activities are also referred to in verse 11.

J.S.E. Are we not carried forward in all matters relating to the Lord and His glory in the energy and by the attention of the Spirit, but is not the Lord the Object in the case? And is not that the reason why chapter 4 flows out as it does on the line of radiancy? It is because we are enjoying the help of the Spirit in relation to the glory of the Lord who is the Object, so that we become reflective by that route, do we not?

J.T.Jr. Would not the ministry of the Spirit there-

fore be seen in the way He came out in the Acts, as we have remarked already; that is God being brought in in the gospel, that is really I suppose the ministry of the Spirit. But then these definitions as we have them, the ministry of righteousness, well, that is the great thought. But does it not commend the Acts of the Apostles, the great ministry of righteousness is coming out in God?

G.R.C. Quite so, and in the basic thought of it, would you not say, it means that the glorified Man is our righteousness? The very One whose glory we are looking upon is our righteousness, made to us wisdom from God and righteousness. It is a glorified Christ that is the righteousness of the believer, and there is nothing like the sense of that to give us liberty in access to God, whether individually, or when we are together. Christ Himself is our righteousness, as glorified.

J.T.Jr. So that the coming out of things through Christ was the righteousness, and everything is governed by Him, what He says.

J.McK. Does this reference to the ministry account for the apostle's confidence; he says, "having this ministry we faint not". Not only was the thing true in Christ, but the power to make it effective, and to carry it forward.

G.R.C. So in chapter 3: 12 - 13, "Having therefore such hope, we use much boldness: and not according as Moses put a veil on his own face". They had boldness, and did not need to put a veil on their faces because of the ministry they had. They had the ministry of the Spirit, and the ministry of righteousness, which could put any man, who was prepared to submit to the Lord, where they themselves were, namely, in the presence of the glory.

J.S.E. Is that why the preaching is on a cumulative basis in this epistle? "The Son of God, Jesus Christ, he who has been preached by us among you (by me

and Silvanus and Timotheus)". That is a cumulative feature of the preaching, which makes it possible for men to be in the enjoyment of the Lord's company, and engaged with His glory, whereas the preaching of Jesus Christ and Him crucified, is really the removal of man, is it not?

G.R.C. Quite so. And might not the apostle very well have fainted when he saw the state at Corinth if he had not this ministry? We might well faint today at the practical state that we often find, and find in ourselves; but having this ministry, as we have had mercy shown us we faint not, because we have got a ministry, which, if there is subjection, will meet every state, and make the saints, and men who are prepared to submit to it, ready for the glory. And that is what we need; the Corinthians needed to be ready for the glory. They were not entering the holy of holies individually. They were occupied with men. They were not looking on the glory of the Lord, but on the glory of man, which has all been done away. The grass has withered and its flower has fallen. And therefore they were not ready for the glory in the assembly, they were not ready for the temple of God locally.

J.S.E. You refer to the first epistle?

G.R.C. Yes. This would prepare them for true temple conditions.

E.C.M. Would the much boldness of 2 Corinthians 3:12 link with the reference to having boldness to enter the holiest in Hebrews?

G.R.C. I think it does further than that. The first thing is we have boldness to enter the holy of holies, but this is the boldness of the one who comes out. It is a question of coming out here. There it is the entering; we all looking on the glory of the Lord. But how do we come out? He had much boldness in coming out. He did not put a veil on his face like Moses. And we are to come out with boldness, we

are to come out holding the confession of the hope unwavering (see Hebrews 10:23). This is the boldness of coming out, that we should come out radiant, radiant towards our brethren, and radiant towards men generally, and we should be unified in the radiance. I believe this is the ministry that is effective to put state right, if state is wrong, as it was at Corinth. This is the ministry that can put it right.

F.J.F. Would that be seen in David as he came on to the battlefield with God; God was with him, he was afraid of nothing.

G.R.C. "Our gospel" involves conflict, but what made Paul bold, according to chapter 3, was his confidence in the ministry he had got, and that is why one is saying, Do we understand our gospel? Do we understand what we have got? -- namely, a ministry of the Spirit, and a ministry of righteousness, which are calculated to meet every state and condition that we have to contend with. But it can only be carried effectively by radiant persons who not only go in with boldness, but come out with boldness, to radiate the light of the knowledge of the glory of God here.

A.H.G. Could you say a word on the contrast of these ministries in verse 9 of chapter 3, "if the ministry of condemnation be glory, much rather the ministry of righteousness abounds in glory".

G.R.C. We ought to boast in our gospel. We have got a wonderful gospel, and yet we are apt to be ashamed of the gospel. Paul said he was not ashamed of it. We have got a ministry of the Spirit which subsists in glory, and a ministry of righteousness which abounds in glory; a ministry from the glory to fit men for the glory, not only for the glory in the future, but to put them in the presence of glory now, so that they, with us, are transformed; a ministry to meet local conditions, and to put the saints, as set in local companies, in the presence of glory now, so

that the truth of the temple of God might be fully known. And one would say, in that connection, that we must not limit the idea of temple of God to enquiry.

C.H. You say that the temple is not limited to enquiry. May we have what is in your mind as to that?

G.R.C. I submit it to the brethren that we cannot limit the idea of the temple to enquiry; we cannot limit the idea of the temple to reading meetings. It does not fit with what scripture says about the temple. Enquiry is one feature of it, and a very important one. The oracles are there, but then the whole service of God is there. All that took place in 2 Chronicles 5 stood related to the temple, it was temple service. The Lord's supper is in that setting, and all that follows.

W.C. In regard of the reference to the glory, and administering the glory, did the Corinthians fail in restoring the man to his full privilege because of the lack of this radiancy of the glory amongst them?

G.R.C. They were slow to restore the man. They were not sufficiently in the gain of new covenant ministry in the sense in which it is developed here.

W.C. And that would affect the service of God, would it not, in the temple? One who had gone astray and been recovered would come back with a rich knowledge of God, would he not?

G.R.C. The Corinthians were defective in "our gospel", and the question is whether I am defective in it or whether I understand it, and am radiating the: glory that is connected with it.

J.M. In regard to assembly service, I would like to enquire as to the matter of lordship further what your thought is as to that.

G.R.C. It is the introduction to it, is it not? The whole setting as we have been told, of the Lord's supper is dominical, it is the lordly supper. The body

and blood of the Lord are referred to, and it is the Lord's death that we announce. We say Lord Jesus, in the power of the Holy Spirit. And in the initial idea of looking on the glory, it is the glory of the Lord. They were glad when they saw the Lord. We move on from glory to glory, but is not the lordship setting the introduction to the whole matter of assembly service?

J.M. How do you view the Spirit now in this connection? Do you apprehend the Spirit objectively in connection with that?

G.R.C. The Spirit is here to exercise lordship authority, as sent by the Lord. What would you say to that?

J.M. I am glad of these remarks.

G.R.C. So that the Spirit is the One who has immediate authority, as it were, as here, with us and in us; but He is giving effect really to the lordship of Christ, as I apprehend it.

A.W. The Lord Spirit is without article, -- "Lord Spirit" simply, and points to the Spirit of God, does it not?

G.R.C. One is bringing this forward as an enquiry. We are in the temple now, on the line of enquiry, the glory shining too, we hope, and we in the presence of the glory. The question is, Why is the Spirit so stressed in the lordship setting? When it says in Romans 8, "the Spirit itself", it seems an objective presentation, and so also in 1 Corinthians 12:11, where He distributes to each in particular as He pleases; and again here, even as by the Lord the Spirit. While His work is subjective, yet there seems an objective presentation of Him in the lordship setting, and, to be quite frank, it makes me wonder whether, if things were normal, our hearts would go out in thanksgiving to the Holy Spirit in the lordship setting. In the power of one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body, and how can we help being

thankful about that?

J.T.Jr. I would suggest that in 1 Corinthians 3, that is the temple, it is the Spirit of God that is referred to, which is a wilderness setting, and it precedes the action in chapter 5, and it precedes the Lord's supper. The Lord's supper is the Lord's supper (1 Corinthians 11). It is not the Spirit's supper. It is the Lord in regard to the loaf and in regard to the cup. It is the Lord's supper.

G.R.C. I think that is very clear.

J.T.Jr. Then in what you are saying as to the Spirit He is always there. He is always God, but He may not be before you as God all the time. Well then there is a difference.

G.R.C. But then He seems to be brought before us in His Deity in the lordship setting.

J.T.Jr. Well that is quite true in 2 Corinthians 3. That follows the Lord's supper. It would not be in the realm of headship; it would not be in the realm of the Lord's supper, except in the sense of the Spirit always being there, and that you can always appeal to Him.

G.R.C. And we can always express thanksgiving to Him, I take it.

J.T.Jr. Well to have worship to a divine Person, you must have the divine Person before you to do it, as God.

T.J.G. Did I understand that it was said that we may not always have the Spirit before us as God? Did I get that remark right?

J.T.Jr. Certainly. If the Spirit is acting in you in some sense, filling out a matter, it is not a question that He is before you as God in doing that. But in 2 Corinthians 3 He is mentioned as quickening, the Spirit quickens. But then that is God doing that. And when He is mentioned as the Lord Spirit, He is before you as God.

G.R.C. And that is in the lordship setting as we

speak, not in the headship setting.

J.T.Jr. Well, the Lord is the minister of the sanctuary, and He is Head. The Spirit is not viewed that way in the Lord's supper.

H.V. Can we ever separate the Spirit from being God?

J.T.Jr. In the way we are thinking, certainly, just as you think of Christ as Man, and you think of Him as God.

G.R.C. But it seems to me that whenever we are addressing a divine Person our souls may be led to worship.

J.T.Jr. It is not a question of what you may be led to, but is the Lord in it, when He is leading. The Lord is the minister of the sanctuary.

J.H. Has not beloved J.T. called our attention to the Spirit objectively in the epistle to the Hebrews, in chapter 2, God bearing witness with them to it, and then to the distributions of the Holy Spirit, according to His will. Then later (chapters 3 - 4) the Holy Spirit says, and then in chapter 9, the Holy Spirit showing that the way to the holy of holies was not yet, then in chapter 10, the Holy Spirit also bears us witness. That would be the distinct Person bearing witness, and it seems a difficult matter to separate between the Person who does this objectively and His operations.

J.T.Jr. The Spirit is always God, but He may not be acting as God all the time. And in the Lord's supper it is the Lord's supper, and He comes in. The Spirit is always there, augmenting the matter. You do not have Him before you as God then, you have the Lord before you.

W.R.M. If He is not acting as God, how would you say He is acting?

J.T.Jr. He is acting in us in a subjective sense.

W.R.M. Would that not be as God too?

J.T.Jr. He is always God.

W.C. Is that not God operating, working in us? It is only God that can work in us the willing and the working of His good pleasure.

J.T.Jr. Quite so, He is always God.

G.R.C. I think we should just weigh over these references to the personality of the Spirit in the lordship setting as to what they mean. As to the temple, as I apprehend it, while the temple is mentioned in chapter 3 of 1 Corinthians, the later chapters show how the temple operates. "Know ye not that ye are temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwells in you", but the actual manifestations of the Spirit which would give light in the temple are dealt with later in the book. The body underlies the temple, that is, the truth of the body and the working of it; and chapter 14 shows how it works out. So that the truth of the temple is not left behind. And I would say again that I do not think we should limit the idea of temple simply to enquiry, because the whole service of praise was in the temple. In His temple every one says, Glory.

J.S.E. Does not chapter 2 of Ephesians augment what you say, "in whom all the building fitted together increases to a holy temple in the Lord; in whom ye also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit" (verses 21 and 22). Is that not perhaps the fullest allusion to the temple in the epistles, involving a habitation of God in the Spirit? Does that not necessarily involve more than just enquiry?

G.R.C. Ephesians 3 would indicate what is involved in the habitation of God in the Spirit. You get there the filling out of what is involved at the present time in God's habitation in the Spirit.

C.H. We obviously, do you think, cannot limit the innermost place to just the question of light? It is where God is. But it is in that particular setting, I suppose, in 1 Corinthians 3.

G.R.C. Exactly. I think that is the great point,

that the temple (the word means the shrine, as we know) is where God is, it is the immediate presence of God. And what must take place in the immediate presence of God? We get an indication in Isaiah 6; the seraphim called one to the other, saying, "Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of hosts; the whole earth is full of His glory!"

J.S.E. Is not the expression in 1 Corinthians 3 on the characteristic line as applying to the assembly in a place, whereas in Ephesians 2 is it not the full thought of the temple, without reference to a locality?

G.R.C. That is why I think it is important to see that in Corinthians it is the temple of the tabernacle. It is the wilderness position. But in the transformation that takes place at the Lord's supper, we transfer, as the Lord comes in and is known as Head, from the wilderness position to the side of purpose. But as we come together in the week it is particularly the wilderness position. We come together in enquiry and seeking light, but my impression is that worship should never be absent, whatever the meeting is, and I do not think it will be if we are really in the gain of the temple.

F.J.F. Do we not delight to worship at all times, if there is power for it? Does that scripture come in where David says, "I have loved the habitation of thy house, and the place where thy glory dwelleth".

G.R.C. That is very good. And so "our gospel" would ensure that temple conditions are present in every locality. If we understand "our gospel" we have the means to meet what conditions may be there, we have the wealth to meet them. If there is insubjection and self-will at work, discipline has to be exercised, but in the absence of that, where there is anything in the way of a subject state, we have got the means to meet all conditions, so that the saints might be kept in the presence of the glory, free to

enter individually, and free and ready to understand the presence of the glory in the assembly of God in a place, and what it leads to, from glory to glory.

R.W.S. And that is not contradicted by the fragile vessel, where the treasure is, nor by the afflictions, nor by the outward man perishing.

G.R.C. That all helps. Always bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus that the life also of Jesus may be manifested in our bodies. Because after all, the life of Jesus is the light. "In Him was life, and the life was the light of men", and the life of Jesus now manifested in the bodies of the saints, is the light. It is the treasure we have in earthen vessels.

R.W.S. You mean as the vessel breaks the light shines?

G.R.C. Yes. Therefore it is the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. The face of Jesus Christ, in that way, is seen in the saints; our faces are reflecting His.

L.E.S. Does the testimony, the radiancy of the glory shining in the face of Stephen, help us in relation to what we are speaking of?

G.R.C. It does; he was filled with the Holy Spirit, and looked steadfastly into heaven. He saw the glory of God, and Jesus.

J.S.E. Is there any sense in which we may view the Spirit in His service to us as subservient to the glorification of Christ?

G.R.C. Oh, I think so, very much so.

J.S.E. I am wondering if that is the answer to what is presented in 2 Corinthians 3, "the Lord is the Spirit", that He is there in authority over us, but all in a subservient way relative to the glory of the Lord?

G.R.C. Even though there are these references to His deity in the chapter, and in 1 Corinthians 12, yet His service, I would have thought, is subservient to the glory of the Lord. So that all this leads up to the Lord being among us as Head, whereas in Colossians,

the Spirit recedes completely. As we have often thought, He as much as says, "That is my Master". So that when it comes to union, and what the assembly is to Christ, when we get on to that side, which we should do rapidly at the supper, it seems to me to be an unsuitable diversion to have a hymn of worship to the Spirit. The Lord is present, and His relations with the assembly are in question.

J.S.E. I had wondered myself whether in perhaps being too eager, in one direction, we have diminished in another. One has noticed on many occasions a great lack, and almost an entire absence of assembly response to Christ.

G.R.C. That would be very sad indeed.

J.S.E. One wonders whether the present exercises are not to revive that with us, and bring us more into it. The Spirit would very much help us in that direction.

G.R.C. The Lord, I believe, is ever an Object. Even when the Father is the Object, the Lord never ceases to be an Object, as I understand it, all through the service.

A.P.C.L. Is it not so that every feature of glory is presented in Him personally?

G.R.C. Quite so.

J.T.Jr. But when the Lord takes His place as Head He is not before us in that sense. He is leading us to the Father, the Father is before us, not the Lord.

G.R.C. Quite so. The Father is the Object and the worship is flowing to Him, but the Lord is nevertheless still an Object, because He said, "I am in my Father, and ye in me". We abide in the Son and in the Father, He has His own unique place.

J.T.Jr. Well, of course, but then He has the Father before Him, that is the objective. He is not the objective then, the Lord is not the objective.

G.R.C. The Father is the objective at that stage, but the Lord does not cease to be before us objectively;

just as when the service of song was proceeding in 2 Chronicles 5, Solomon would never cease to be an object before the people. He was never lost sight of. He was always directing. There was also the ark before them.

J.T.Jr. Yes, but to get the service of God we get instruction about it in the New Testament, and that we are having access through Christ by the Spirit, the Father is the objective. And I do not think we have the Lord and the Spirit before us objectively then.

A.P.A. Do not the words in John 17:26, "I in them" confirm what Mr. C. is saying? "That the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them".

G.R.C. Also in John 14, "I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you". There is that side, "I in you" the Lord in us and among us. He is leading the praise, but my impression is that we never lose sight of Him. The Father is the Object to Whom our worship is flowing; but in the praises of Israel, Solomon would never be lost sight of. The Lord is never one of us merely.

J.T.Jr. I would not have any difficulty about that, but the point in the service is, as the Lord pointed out in John 4, the Father is the objective.

G.R.C. The Father is the objective, I quite agree, at that time. But I fear at times one has tended to lose sight of the Lord altogether.

J.H. Could we ever lose sight of the Lord in the light of the wonderful word "in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily"?

G.R.C. A remark of yours, Mr. T., some time ago helped me. You said when, at the end of the service, God is before us, you are thinking of a Man, you are thinking of Christ as the expression of God. Is that right?

J.T.Jr. Well you are going on now, I would say.

I have no difficulty about that. The truth is the Trinity, the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. But then the Son there is the Man, you come back to the thought of Ephesians 3, of Christ, because we are not infinite, we are finite.

G.R.C. And in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

P.L. But, as acting, the blessed Lord and the Holy Spirit are on our side, with a view to the worship of the Father.

G.R.C. I fully agree with that.

J.O.S. How do you understand the expression, "No one comes to the Father unless by me", John 14:6? The Lord is always, in that way, before us?

G.R.C. I am not suggesting that the Lord becomes our Object; at that time, in worship, or thanksgiving, the Father is our Object; but only that we do not lose sight of the Son at any time.

J.O.S. In John 14 the Lord had in mind that those who saw Him saw the Father.

J.McM. Are you thinking of Hebrews 2:12, "in the midst of the assembly I will sing thy praises"?

G.R.C. Yes. I think I have been guilty at times of almost losing sight of Him amongst the brethren. But He is ever distinctive. He is directing the whole service.

R.W. What is the force of 1 Chronicles 29:20? "David said to all the congregation, Bless now Jehovah your God. And all the congregation blessed Jehovah the God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and did homage to Jehovah and the king".

J.T.Jr. Would that not fit in with the thought of God, the Trinity, there?

A.J.G. Is it not suggestive of the Minister of the holy places, in the sanctuary, giving directions?

G.R.C. It may be; and that applies throughout the service, does it not?

G.B. Could we go back just for a moment to your reference to Genesis 24? You quoted the servant saying of Isaac, "That is my master!" You would not be free, would you, to address the Spirit and speak to Him about His Master?

G.R.C. I had never thought of such a thing.

G.B. Do you think it would be unseemly in a creature to do so?

G.R.C. I cannot see any warrant in scripture for it.

THIRD READING

2 Corinthians 5:13 - 21; 2 Corinthians 6:1 - 3, 11 - 18; 2 Corinthians 7:1

P.L. I am sure it would be helpful if what came up yesterday afternoon was clarified. I take it that when the Father is being addressed worshipfully, the Other Persons, as serving to that end on our side -- through Him we have access by one Spirit to the Father -- are not at that time before us worshipfully; appreciating as we do, of course, the great mediatorial service of Christ in view of this service of praise and worship to the Father.

G.R.C. That is how I understand it. Christ's service as Mediator and Minister of the holy places runs right through, as we respond to His Father and our Father, and to His God and our God. And in that sense we are under His direction and look to Him for direction. Also I suppose, in some sense, looking on the glory of the Lord is continuous right through the meeting. But the Father, at that time, is the Object of worship by Himself, and so worthy of it. We sing:

But not an eye those hosts among
But sees His glory Thine. (Hymn 178)

That is, the Father's glory is occupying us, though outshining in the Son. Would that be right?

P.L. Surely.

C.H. Would not the mediatorial place Christ has in all things pertaining to God be recognised in the way we finish our praise or thanksgiving in the Name of the Lord Jesus?

G.R.C. I would think so.

C.H. But the one before the soul would be that particular Person who is the Object of our praise or worship.

G.R.C. Exactly. "I ascend to my Father and your

Father". The Father is absorbing our attention and is the Object of our worship. But my concern is that we should never lose sight of the Son, in the sense that He is directing everything. We are not a number of individual sons acting independently. He is in the midst as Head, and we are thus under the direction of the true Solomon in the service.

J.S.E. Does Colossians 3:16 help? "Let the word of the Christ dwell in you richly, in all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another, in psalms, hymns, spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to God".

G.R.C. Do you mean that the word of the Christ is regulating?

J.S.E. Yes, and in a sense it is mediatorial; that is, it is a means to an end. But the end and object is God Himself. It seems to me that when the mediatorial activity of Christ or of the Spirit is to the front, the object before us must be the object before that Person in His service.

G.R.C. Exactly.

W.R.M. Would it be right to say that when we worship the Father in heaven we shall be looking at the Son?

G.R.C. I do not think He will ever be out of our view. J.N.D. says:

There with unwearied gaze
Our eyes on Him we'll rest. (Hymn 79)

What we know of God is expressed in Him. "He that has seen me", He said, "has seen the Father".

Ques. Would not verse 4 of hymn 178 fit in here?

There Christ, the centre of the throng,
Shall in His glory shine,
But not an eye those hosts among
But sees His glory Thine. (Hymn 178)

G.R.C. Quite so. The Father is thus the Object of worship, His glory radiant in the Son.

W.C. Is it not important that whether we are

thinking, or referring, to either the Son or the Spirit, the spirit of worship should be with us? Though we are not actually engaged in the worship of Each One as a divine Person, yet the spirit of worship should be with us, surely.

G.R.C. You are thinking of worship in the sense of homage of heart? I think what you say is right.

A.J.G. The Lord helps us, does He not, by saying "My Father is greater than I". So that He directs to the Father as the One who is to have the supreme place in our thoughts and affections?

F.J.F. And what place has the Spirit at that juncture?

G.R.C. The second preposition (i.e., "en") in Ephesians 2:18 is the same as in 1 Corinthians 12:13. It is through Him, that is the Son, we have access in, or in the power of, one Spirit to the Father. Similarly, it is "in the power of one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body".

F.G.F. Does that mean that the Holy Spirit, in His service, is on our side helping us to be before the Father, even as the Lord's service is helpful?

G.R.C. It certainly does. Thus, just as we must be filled with gratitude that in the power of one Spirit we have been baptised into one body, without which we could not even partake of the Lord's supper, so, similarly, we would be filled with gratitude to the Holy Spirit that in His power we have access to the Father, through Christ.

A.P.C.L. Is that why worshipful reference to the Spirit at that point would be the outflow of our souls? I was thinking of what you said yesterday, that in headship, as Christ is occupied with the assembly and the assembly with Christ, it seems fitting that He should be solely and supremely before us; and also of what has been said in ministry so clearly that His portion is before we proceed to the Father; whether, therefore, there would be opportunity at that time to

let our souls go out in worship to the Spirit?

G.R.C. As we have noticed, in Colossians the Spirit recedes from view, making way for Christ in His supremacy as Head, there being a marvellous presentation of Him in that epistle; but in Ephesians, when we are approaching the full thought of the service of God, that is "my Father, and your Father, and my God, and your God", the Spirit comes in again. There are a number of references to the Spirit in Ephesians, the first stating that He is the earnest of our inheritance.

A.B.P. Does Ezekiel in type have the consciousness of the power of the Spirit; and the place that the Lord Jesus has in His augmentary service in mind, as lifted, carried by the Spirit? "And the Spirit lifted me up, and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of Jehovah filled the house. And I heard one speaking unto me out of the house; and a man was standing by me", Ezekiel 43:5, 6.

G.R.C. Does not that passage show that right up to the close of the service when we are worshipping God as such, the mediatorial service of Christ and of the Spirit is still essential, and available; because, as you know, that setting is the setting of the throne, "this is the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever". As applied to us, we are then worshipping the great King, in His habitation, according to 1 Timothy 1:17 and 1 Timothy 6:16. Would you say that is right?

A.B.P. That was the impression I had, that while the Object is God Himself, we never lose sight of the power of the Spirit as necessary, and the association with Christ in the place of response to God.

G.R.C. At the same time, while we are dependent upon the service of the Spirit lifting us up, and a Man standing by us -- and it is wonderful, it leads our hearts out in homage at the very thought of the grace

of it -- yet at that stage of the service, one would judge, we are thinking objectively of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in the greatness and oneness of Deity.

J.McK. Does the matter of access involve what continues, the continuing efficacy of the service of the Son and of the Spirit, so long as we are before the Father?

G.R.C. Yes, and, of course, you have access in Ephesians 3:12 too, which would include access to God in glory and majesty.

J.McK. Yes, I was thinking of that also; whether we have not been satisfied with an approach by certain means. But the continuing enjoyment of the relationship and position before God is dependent upon the continuing service of the Son and the Spirit.

G.R.C. And I suppose always will be, all through eternity.

J.McK. That is how I feel about it.

G.R.C. It is most touching to think that Their service continues, it is essential for us, all through eternity. How much, then, we need it now, in these mixed conditions! And it is a great mystery. We are worshipping God in the final phase of the service, we are thinking of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit objectively in the oneness and equality of Deity, and yet the Son and the Spirit are also on our side, enabling us, helping us, to take that objective view; just as in the end of Matthew the Lord says, "the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit", and yet He was standing by them at the very time He said it. That is a different setting, but I am drawing attention to the fact that He was standing by them, and promising to be with them all the days, and yet directs their attention objectively to Himself in Deity, with the Father and the Spirit.

C.H. In thinking of the mediatorial service of Christ we do not in any sense reduce Christ to the

position He has taken; but we do understand that our link with the infinite is in One who Himself is infinite, and yet is in manhood.

J.H. Does John 6:62 help, "If then ye see the Son of man ascending up where he was before?", then He directly calls attention to the Spirit, "It is the Spirit which quickens". On the ascending line He says, "I ascend to my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God", yet, as to who He is, He goes further than all, because of His Deity; "where He was before".

A.B.P. As creatures, we will ever be dependent upon eating of the tree of life, and drinking the water of life, and would that suggest the support we have in the augmentary service of Christ and the Spirit?

G.R.C. The service is living, and life has to be sustained in that way.

H.V. How is the thought of the Lord as Minister of the sanctuary to be connected with what is now being said?

G.R.C. The Lord is Minister; the word is "leitourgos" from which "liturgy" comes. It means that He is over the whole service, and I think in the Gentile epistles that is included in the title Head. In the epistle to the Hebrews He is said to be Minister of the holy places, Aaron being the type, but in Colossians He is the Head, and Solomon is the type. In Colossians and Ephesians, particularly, Solomon would be the type as directing the whole service, as the King, or the Head.

A.J.G. Is the idea connected with Minister of the holy places that the service should be wholly according to God, suitable to God, whereas His headship is more immediately on our side, in order that we might be led suitably.

C.H. In Hebrews 8 it is connected with the greatness of the Person who takes the office, is it not? He has set Himself down, on the right hand of the throne

of the greatness in the heavens.

G.R.C. Are there not offices belonging to manhood which could only be filled by a Person of the Godhead? Take the general title, the Christ, the Anointed; only a divine Person could fill out God's thoughts as to His Anointed. And so with the Minister of the holy places.

J.S.E. Is that why we have such a layout in chapter 1 of Hebrews as to the glory and equality of the Person, so that we never lose sight of that, although we are called upon to view Him in His place as Man in the offices He fills.

G.R.C. Quite so; and, of course, in whatever way we view Him, we are always looking upon a Man, speaking with all reverence, even when we are contemplating what He is in Himself. He is the effulgence of God's glory. That is not an office, it is what He is; He is the effulgence of God's glory, and the expression of His substance. But then He holds offices and we have to distinguish between what He is and the offices He holds.

R.M.Y. The thought of Minister of the holy places would not be confined merely to the service while it is in process, would it? Has not the service been regulated in ministry for many years now, and would that not all come from the Minister of the holy places?

G.R.C. I can see that in living faith we need to be under His direction as the Minister of the holy places as the service actually proceeds, because it is the worship of the living God, as it says in Hebrews. Everything is to be living, and therefore we need to be in living faith, and under the living control of the Minister. But then I think what you say is interesting, that, over the years, He has been gradually helping us as to the character and order of the service.

C.H. If that matter has been clarified, could we now go to your scriptures.

J.T.Jr. May I just say, then, that there is a Man great enough for everything.

G.R.C. That is a wonderful thing to get into our souls.

W.C. You would say because of who He is?

J.T.Jr. Exactly. As the gospels bring out, a real Man here, but not a mere Man.

F.J.F. And is it not so that the Minister of the sanctuary also must be a divine Person to fulfil the office of the priest according to the order of Melchisedec?

G.R.C. Exactly. I think the great offices that God purposed for man are so great that only a divine Person could fill them out. But then He is greater than any office, He adorns every office.

A.P.C.L. So that flowing out of what has been said just now, we must recognise, must we not, that we are dependent upon Him as to the impulse we may have to worship the Spirit, as under the direction of such a One? What I am guarding against is the idea of ritual coming in at this point, that if the matter is to be living it is a question of what is in His mind, in any particular service.

G.R.C. Is not that where the importance comes in, of not overlooking the service of the Lord Jesus as the Minister of the holy places during the time of the service? I think what Mr. Y. says is true, that He has been gradually helping us on general lines. But it does not alter the fact, that when the service is proceeding, we are dependent upon His impulse and direction, otherwise we shall make a liturgy. The Lord has helped us as to the order of the service, so that things have completely changed in the last fifty years. Nevertheless in the detail of the service we must be livingly under His impulse, if the service is to be living and acceptable to God.

R.W.S. Does the service of the Minister of the holy places apply to the final phases or all phases of the

service, please?

G.R.C. I thought it applied particularly once the Lord assumes His place as Head.

Ques. Is there some reference to Aaron, and all the services being under his hand?

G.R.C. It refers to Aaron, but we must not leave out, as far as I see, the Solomonic service also. There is the danger of unbelief relative to the service of God; the leaven of the Sadducees. The Sadducees were the priestly class, but they did not believe in the resurrection. Men attempt to carry on the public worship of God, who have no living faith in the presence of the Spirit, nor in the Lord's presence and leading in the assembly.

J.S.E. Is not the irregularity caused by undue occupation with the Mosaic types and trying to fit them into Christendom; but the glory of the Son of the Father's love, which as you say is Solomonic, is by-passed; and is not that where the Spirit is seeking to help the brethren to understand things in a fuller way?

G.R.C. I think the presentation of Christ in Colossians 1 is of the utmost importance. But we have to beware of the leaven of the Sadducees. It is unbelief relative to the service of God, and it is innate in our hearts. We would all like, if we gave way to nature, to have a set order. It would relieve us of the necessity for exercise, for dependence and for living faith. But the true service can be taken up only in living faith. Basically, we worship by the Spirit of God, but then, as the service proceeds, it is under the direction of the Minister of the holy places.

A.J.G. With regard to the reference to the tree of life on the one hand, and the river on the other, the tree of life brings forth fresh fruit every month, and the river is always flowing, it is never stagnant, is it?

G.R.C. Very good. Now if we could pass on to Corinthians, what is in

mind is unity of judgment and outlook, and unity and expansion of heart in purification. Chapter 5, Paul tells us what he had judged, and the outlook and conduct that resulted from that judgment; and in chapter 6 he says, "Let your heart" -- it is a unified idea, "Let your heart also expand itself", which would lead to unity in purification according to his exhortation in chapter 7: 1, "Having therefore these promises, beloved, let us purify ourselves from every pollution of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in God's fear". We were speaking yesterday about dealing with what is within first, namely the old leaven. The Lord says in Matthew 23:26: "Blind Pharisee, make clean first the inside of the cup and of the dish, that their outside also may become clean". Purification (which means cleansing), whether within or without, is a matter of righteousness. It is righteous to be clean. This makes way for holiness, which is a positive quality and flows from love.

But before we come to that you have Paul's judgment, "for the love of the Christ constrains us, having judged this: that one died for all, then all have died; and he died for all that they who live should no longer live to themselves, but to him who died for them and has been raised", and then the result of his judgment, "So that we henceforth know no one according to flesh; but if even we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we know him thus no longer. So if anyone be in Christ, there is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold all things have become new: and all things are of the God who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ". Now that gives us Paul's outlook which was in line with God's outlook, knowing no one according to flesh, but looking out on new creation; and for him, as for God, the old things had passed away. And the question is as to whether we are unified in this judgment and outlook. And I think the preceding

verses are very important relative to it. He speaks of the judgment-seat of Christ, and the thing is to arrive at this judgment and outlook, so that we are in accord with the judgment-seat of Christ now. At the judgment-seat of Christ nothing will pass but new creation; the old things will, effectively and practically, have passed away and we shall then have a perfect judgment as to them. But we are to arrive at that now. Then, in verse 13, he shows how this judgment on his part was sustained. It seems to me to mean that whenever he was not otherwise engaged he was in the presence of God, he was in the holiest. "Whether we are beside ourselves, it is to God". The footnote is most interesting. Paul did not waste time. When he was not occupied in his practical services, he was in the presence of God. And this chapter shows that, in the presence of God, we not only look on the glory of the Lord and are transformed; but we get a right judgment and are sustained in it, because we are in the presence of God the judge of all. It is a sanctuary judgment.

A.J.G. It would seem that the basis of this judgment is an increasing appreciation of the love of Christ in dying for all.

G.R.C. Quite so, the love of Christ constrains us. One died for all, then all have died. That was the judgment he came to. Therefore he knew no one after the flesh.

C.W.C. Would the Minister of the sanctuary help us to be in the position suggested in verse 13, in a spirit of ecstasy, but when it is a question of what we say audibly, we need to be sober, because the brethren are listening to us?

G.R.C. The Lord would support us as the great Priest over the house of God and encourage us to be continually in the presence of God, and, as the note says, his ecstasy was not excitement or folly, it was really worship. And I would say that, where things

are right, when we are together, the worship of the saints goes beyond what is uttered. As you say, what is uttered has to be spoken intelligibly and in sobriety for the sake of others, but surely the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit would help us to know more of true ecstasy towards God.

R.W.S. It is to God, he says. Is that the full thought?

G.R.C. It is something you could not express intelligibly to men.

R.W.S. Would he have in mind the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit in that?

G.R.C. In Colossians 1:12 he says, "giving thanks to the Father", and I think in so doing we may well be beside ourselves in worship to the Father. But then he says here, "for whether we are beside ourselves, it is to God".

F.J.F. If we do not know anyone after the flesh, is it according to the work of God that we know each other?

G.R.C. It is; only God's workmanship will pass the judgment-seat, and we are to be engaged with God's workmanship now. If anyone be in Christ, there is a new creation, and we need to see that a new creation is existing at the present time; the new man is here, created after God in righteousness and holiness of truth; and God is dwelling among His people relative to that, relative to what we are as His workmanship. The tabernacle is a type. In every part it speaks of Christ.

A.J.G. So that our links with one another are to flow out of our appreciation of the work of God in each other.

J.T.Jr. The apostle goes on quickly to the thought of new creation, but he brings in this thought, no longer to live to himself. That is as far as that goes in this epistle, and that is an important point to reach.

G.R.C. Would you say more as to the importance

of it?

J.T.Jr. I thought that it had an important bearing in regard to the present exercises as to the fellowship; you do not live to yourself.

A.J.G. Would you say that where it says "but to him who died for them and has been raised", that is to connect our thoughts and interests with Christ, and really the assembly as bound up with Him?

G.R.C. I think so, and to move us on to new creation. One wonders how far we have got the new creation outlook. "If anyone be in Christ, there is a new creation". We find ourselves in environments and relationships that are entirely new.

P.L. They go right on to eternity, the new heavens and new earth.

G.R.C. As I understand it, God is dwelling among us relative to this, to what we are as His workmanship. The tabernacle speaks entirely of Christ, every part of it, and thus it views the saints as the tabernacle of testimony, as entirely God's workmanship. But then the tabernacle and all its utensils were sprinkled with blood; that takes account of our mixed condition. Redemption and reconciliation were essential.

J.S.E. Would the verse in the end of Galatians in any sense implement what you are saying, "as many as walk according to this rule", etc.?

G.R.C. It would. And so we have here the work of new creation, and the work of reconciliation put together, and they must be together. One is the work of God, and the other is the work of Christ, the sacrificial work of Christ upon the cross. So far as the work of God is in evidence everything is new, there is a new creation. The new man is existing here on earth. But the work of reconciliation involves that for God the old things are passed away. The work of reconciliation has ended judicially the old things, for God's glory. So the tabernacle and all its utensils

were sprinkled with blood; and that is, as I see it, the way God looks upon the saints at the present time; and it is to be our outlook. The tabernacle intrinsically was entirely of Christ, referring, in the antitype, to God's workmanship in the saints. But then there is what we are after the flesh, but that is covered by the blood. The old things in that way are passed away, and all things are become new, and all things are of God. So that this is a present judgment and a present outlook. We are really sharing with God in His outlook. Actually the old things have not yet passed away, but it is the way we can take account of things in view of the work of reconciliation.

A.J.G. But before God all were dead, and the death of Christ proved that, so that the only thing that is living really, according to God's reckoning, is His own work in the saints, is it?

G.R.C. Quite so. And the fact that mixed conditions exist is covered by the work of reconciliation in the divine outlook, and in the outlook of the ministers, and it should be in the outlook of the brethren generally. The way we look upon each other, and our links with one another, are entirely relative to what is new. And it seems to me that the understanding of this is the basis of the exhortations that follow.

A.B.P. Would there be a connection with John 11 and 12, that the family at Bethany was brought to weigh things now on the basis of their firmness, whether they go through into life, or end in corruption? I am thinking of the expression that "all have died".

G.R.C. So that we have a new order of things in chapter 12.

A.B.P. Has it not been said that it is typical of those who love our Lord Jesus Christ in incorruption?

G.R.C. Very good.

F.J.F. Should we take opportunity more to pray with power, like Peter. He went, while they were preparing, on the housetop, and it says "an ecstasy came upon him". Would God answer in that way, as we are devoted to Him in prayer?

G.R.C. He got a view of the great vessel as a sheet, and in it were all the creeping things and quadrupeds of the earth, but the word was "What God has cleansed, do not thou make common", Acts 10:15.

D.S.H. Would you call that a sanctuary judgment, "what God has cleansed"?

G.R.C. I think what Paul has here is a sanctuary judgment. It is a judgment we arrive at, I would say, as being in the centre of the system with God. There is the blood upon the mercy-seat, and the tabernacle, as it says, and all its utensils sprinkled with blood. There is the work of reconciliation in all its greatness, so that, from the divine standpoint, the old things are passed away, and you are looking out with God upon His own workmanship, His habitation in the Spirit. We are builded together for that.

C.H. And in speaking of reconciliation as the basis for what follows, have you in mind that we should have a thorough-going judgment about what is irreconcilable. It even applies to the ministers, that they have got to be careful, have they not? He is concerned that the Corinthians do not receive the grace of God in vain, but then he goes on to refer to the ministers, does he not?

G.R.C. He does, and so the idea of ambassadors comes in. As coming forth from the presence of God, nothing should mark such, except that which is in keeping with this judgment and outlook.

A.J.G. Is that what is involved in the word of reconciliation? There is the ministry of it, but then there is also the word of it?

G.R.C. The ministry would be the official thing, would it not, like an ambassador receiving his credentials.

But the word of it is what marks the person.

A.J.G. I wondered as to that, whether it was the living expression of the truth in Paul and those with him.

G.R.C. As coming forth from the presence of God he says, "We are ambassadors therefore for Christ, God as it were beseeching by us, we entreat for Christ". What an affecting thing this is! Think of what God has done; how much, we may say, He has suffered, and how much Christ has suffered, to effect the work of reconciliation. And then, "God as it were beseeching by us". It says, "him who knew not sin he has made sin for us, that we might become God's righteousness in him".

J.A.P. When it refers to "for if we have known Christ after the flesh", is that a reference to what is natural? Has not even what is right in the flesh to be ruled by what is spiritual?

G.R.C. Indeed it has. But this passage is to show how completely that order is closed. The only One perfect in it, and who had a right to live in it is no longer known after the flesh. That order is closed. But then he goes on, in chapter 6, to bring in exhortations based on this, "But as fellow-workmen, we also beseech that ye receive not the grace of God in vain". We ought to understand the wonderful day we are living in, the day of reconciliation, a well-accepted time. He says, "I have listened to thee in an accepted time". God is listening and you wonder what He hears; He is listening, as we may say, to the priesthood, because it is a well-accepted time, and He can do great things. But what was He hearing from Corinth? They were narrowed up, they had not got this judgment or this outlook. It is the judgment and outlook of chapter 5 that would expand us, and would enlarge our requests so that God would hear things that He wants to hear. He is listening and He moves relative to the requests of the saints. He can

move apart from that, of course, but He delights to move relative to the requests of the priesthood here, and He is listening to what we have got to say. Is our judgment and outlook such that we are taking full advantage of this well-accepted time in what we are asking for?

J.McK. Do you think the reference to the day of salvation would indicate that all this is to be practically worked out and there is divine provision and support for the saints pursuing this line? And in the reference to the ministry being not blamed, would that be the saints falling short of coming into line with the ministry?

G.R.C. I think if we are marked by the old things, by features of the old man, the ministry will be blamed.

R.W.S. Does the strength of the word 'constrain', in verse 14, and the beseeching of chapter 6: 1, the deep feelings of God, all flow out from what he was with God in private?

G.R.C. These deep feelings of Paul are but a reflection of the deep feelings of Christ, and the deep feelings of God. "Him who knew not sin He has made sin for us that we might become God's righteousness in Him", and that great transaction has opened up this well-accepted time, and, in beseeching, Paul is reflecting the feelings of the heart of God. Thus it is a question of our hearts expanding themselves, so that our hearts might be more in tune with the heart of God, that we might have His judgment of things and His outlook. We have spoken of Paul's judgment and Paul's outlook. The point is that Paul had taken on God's judgment of things, and God's outlook; and if we do that it will lead to great expansion.

-H. Has reconciliation in mind divine complacency?

G.R.C. I think that is what is in mind in chapter 6, divine complacency. God has His habitation here

because of what we have in chapter 5. On account of the outlook that God is pleased to have, because the work of reconciliation has been effected, He does not leave His habitation. He says, "I will dwell among them, and walk among them". We might have thought, and it would have been so if things were based on legal requirements, that God would have left the company at Corinth. But God had not left them in spite of their state. Why? Because of what we have in chapter 5. For God the old things had passed away, and all things had become new, and the way that Paul addresses the Corinthians, the abstract way he addresses them in certain passages in the first epistle, shows how this governed him. They were sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints; they were washed, sanctified and justified; they were unleavened. That is the abstract view, and the work of reconciliation covers all the rest for God's glory, and it is on this basis that God can continue with us. God surely would have left us long ago but for this. But God is dwelling among us still because of the propitious outlook He has. The blood is on the mercy-seat, and as He looks out, for Him the old things have passed away, and all things have become new. He sees us as His workmanship created in Christ Jesus, and all that is incompatible covered by that wonderful work of reconciliation. So God goes on with us. But then, the aim in view in the ministry is that we should be practically in accord with that judgment, that the old things should in a practical sense have passed away, that God might be dwelling complacently.

A.B.P. And would you say that there must be a concrete expression of this in the company for God to take this attitude?

G.R.C. So would you say there were some in Corinth who shared this outlook? The approved were to become manifest.

A.B.P. If God could say "all Israel has sinned" when Achan sinned, He can also hold the company in abstract perfection because of the concrete fact of the truth being expressed in certain persons.

Ques. Has "the day of salvation" in mind that there is power for us to be delivered from the workings of the flesh?

G.R.C. There is. We can approach God about everything needed relative to the testimony, everything needed relative to our being here in accord with His house.

C.H. Would the apostle count on the approved coming to light by this process you have been delineating? He speaks of them, does he not, in chapter 11 of the first letter, "that the approved may become manifest among you"?

G.R.C. I would say so. They would be those whose heart expanded itself, would you say?

C.H. Yes. I thought what Mr. P. said was important that there was the work of God there at Corinth, basically, and in some sense testimonially, so that God had a warrant for going on with them; but the basis is, as you rightly say, from the divine side, reconciliation.

G.R.C. Quite so. And is not our answer to it purification?

C.H. I wondered that. It is not just righteousness but purification.

G.R.C. So that while chapter 5: 21 has the day of atonement in mind specially, we have in Numbers 19 the red heifer, which also bears on the verse, "him who knew not sin he has made sin for us". Leviticus 16 is in the main the bearing of the sacrificial work of Christ upon God Himself, what He has done for God, and we, as with God, are to understand that; but in Numbers 19 the bearing of it is upon ourselves.

N.W. If we walk with God during the six days

in the power of the Holy Spirit, will we not be in a state on the Lord's day for the Lord Jesus to come in and really be known among us?

G.R.C. I am sure that is right.

C.H. Will you please give us that scripture. It was a question of the whole thing viewed from our side, the whole man coming under the destruction of the fire.

G.R.C. Numbers 19:2 says, "Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without blemish, wherein is no defect, and upon which never came yoke; and ye shall give it to Eleazar the priest, and he shall bring it outside the camp, and one shall slaughter it before him. And Eleazar the priest shall take of its blood with his finger, and shall sprinkle of its blood directly before the tent of meeting seven times. And one shall bum the heifer before his eyes; its skin and its flesh, and its blood, with its dung, shall he burn". Now this is a great contrast to the passover, because there the whole lamb was to be eaten except the blood; here the whole is to be burned, "its skin and its flesh, and its blood, with its dung, shall he burn". Nothing of this sacrifice went up as a sweet odour on the altar, it is not that aspect; nor was it slaughtered at the altar, it was slaughtered outside the camp; nor was it before Jehovah, it was before the eyes of Eleazar. The sin-offerings generally were slaughtered before Jehovah (see Leviticus 4) and as regards the sin-offering on the day of atonement, it was a question of what it effected for Jehovah. But when you come to the idea of purification, then the red heifer was slaughtered before Eleazar, and burned before his eyes, which, one would judge, means before our eyes as priests. Is that right?

C.H. Yes, so that in verse 7, the priest shall wash his garments. There is a great deal following in the chapter about the water, the action of water, which

relates to purification, I suppose.

G.R.C. It does. This burning provided the ashes for the water of purification or separation. It says, "the priest shall take cedar-wood, and hyssop, and scarlet, and cast them into the midst of the burning of the heifer". That is what the priest does. It is burned before his eyes, and then there is his action. In the light of such a burning as this he casts the cedar-wood and hyssop and scarlet into the midst of the burning; all that man would boast in is gone into the burning.

C.H. It indicates a thorough-going judgment. That is what the scripture seems to suggest, does it not?

G.R.C. Quite so.

J.S.E. Are you suggesting that what we have embodied in chapter 5 is largely connected with Leviticus 16?

G.R.C. I think verse 21 can be linked with both Leviticus 16 and Numbers 19, "Him who knew not sin He has made sin for us", although the stress would be on Leviticus 16 because it is the work of reconciliation there. But the two things are put together in Hebrews 9:13, "If the blood of goats and bulls" -- that is referring to the day of atonement -- "and a heifer's ashes sprinkling the defiled" -- referring to Numbers 19 -- "sanctifies for the purity of the flesh". Therefore the two things are brought together relative to our approach to, and service of, the living God. You can understand Leviticus dealing with what has been effected for God in the sacrifice of Christ, and Numbers, the wilderness book, with its bearing upon us, and the need for purification.

J.M. Would you say that on our side the expanded heart and the narrow path go together?

G.R.C. That is just what I thought. The more our hearts expand themselves and come into line, therefore, with the heart of God -- His desires, His longings to dwell among us complacently -- the more

energetically we shall purify ourselves from every pollution of flesh and spirit so as to have practical conditions in keeping with Him. "I will dwell among them, and walk among them;" what could be greater? Surely we would all desire that God should be dwelling among us and walking among us with complacency.

J.S.E. Do you mean that as allowing our heart to expand itself, it would become a very simple matter to handle these opposites, at the close of chapter 6?

G.R.C. Just so.

F.J.F. Does that word at the end of the chapter 5, "that we might become God's righteousness in Him", involve a glorified body before Him forever?

G.R.C. That is what I understand. But then the practical answer to that is righteousness now.

A.B.P. Sometimes it is asked why there should be such severe requirements of the truth in our day. Is it not significant that both the red heifer, and the brazen serpent, occur at the end of the wilderness pathway?

G.R.C. That is a very interesting thing. God has waited on us with much patience.

A.B.P. And, according to the passage in Deuteronomy, had us in mind particularly, because Moses says, "Not with our fathers did Jehovah make this covenant, but with us who are here alive all of us this day".

G.W.B. The prophecies of Balaam follow, too.

G.R.C. Which bear out what has been said as to the necessity for what is concrete. It is not till there is what is concrete that Balaam is compelled to prophesy as he does.

R.W.S. Would the allusion to being the living God's temple, and what the Lord says in verse 17, then the allusion to fatherhood in verse 18 and the thought of the Lord Almighty, give encouragement

and leverage to make a break with associations which are corrupting?

G.R.C. That is what I would say, "Come out from the midst of them, and be separated, saith the Lord". That word, "be separated" it seems to me, would involve the building of the wall. Many built over against their houses, and we have to do that. Then the goldsmiths, the perfumers and the dealers were all mentioned as building the wall, showing that it affects not only our houses but our businesses.

L.E.S. Is it not an important matter that these proposals on the part of God to be their God, and that they should be His people, occur no less than 14 or 15 times at the beginning of their history, in the prophetic days of their history, in the recovery of their whole position, and then in the epistle to the Hebrews, and then in the Revelation? Does it not cover the whole of our position here as the people of God?

G.R.C. And how attractive it is, "I will be their God" -- what could be more blessed -- "and they shall be to me a people".

A.McG. Leviticus 26:1 - 13 unfolds the blessedness of it.

FOURTH READING

Galatians 2:18 - 21; Galatians 3:1 - 3, 24 - 29; Galatians 4:1 - 7; Galatians 6:14 - 18

G.R.C. One desires help in looking at this epistle as to the great truth of sonship, a truth which, if understood, would unify us; we should be unified under the leading of the Spirit, "as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God". The Spirit is greatly stressed in this book, just as He is in Romans and 1 Corinthians. One thing that it would remind us of is that to be truly in the liberty of sons of God we need to be sons of oil. I believe the teaching as to the Spirit in Romans, 1 Corinthians and Galatians, has in view that we should become sons of oil. The two olive branches in Zechariah 4 are called sons of oil and they emptied the gold out of themselves by means of the golden tubes. Only sons, in the liberty of sonship, can do that; and they subserve the assembly; the bowl of oil would represent the assembly as the vessel of the Spirit. Sons are needed to subserve the great truth of the assembly; not emptying oil out of themselves, it says, but emptying the gold out of themselves. That is, they supply love, which is so needed. The primary thing needed is love. "Follow after love, and be emulous of spiritual manifestations". The bowl of oil would ensure spiritual manifestations, because each lamp was supplied from it by means of seven pipes. But if we are to get the spiritual manifestations we need the sons of oil, the two olive branches, who pour the gold out of themselves. Therefore it appears right to say that no one unless in the liberty of sonship can be a churchman, properly speaking. In Galatia they were introducing weak and beggarly principles which are not compatible with the assembly.

W.S.S. The end of the passage you are referring to in Zechariah says, "These are the two sons of oil, that stand before the Lord of the whole earth". Would that be in your mind in using the type?

G.R.C. Quite so. Those in the dignity of sonship have in mind the rights of God universally. "Israel is my son, my firstborn ... Let my son go, that he may serve me". Well, how are we to serve? From the standpoint of Zechariah 4 we serve as sons by emptying the gold out of ourselves; all that we are and have subserves the assembly. And the end in view would be the worship and praise of God. The sons of oil, no doubt, as far as the application at that time went, referred to Joshua and Zerubbabel, the priestly and kingly elements. God looks for these elements among the saints now, and they are only found in those who are in the liberty of sonship.

E.A.K. Is it instructive that in the blessing of Asher in Deuteronomy it says, "Of Asher he said, Asher shall be blessed with sons", then it goes on to say, "let him dip his foot in oil; iron and brass shall be thy bolts". Does that suggest that a true churchman, in the liberty of sonship, will hold the truth in love?

G.R.C. That is very helpful. The dipping the foot in oil is a prominent feature of the teaching in Galatians. In chapter 5: 16 "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall in no way fulfil flesh's lust"; verse 18 "but if ye are led by the Spirit, ye are not under law"; verse 25 "If we live by the Spirit, let us walk also by the Spirit". The foot dipped in oil is stressed and then it gives the fruit of the Spirit. "The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, fidelity, meekness, self-control". The fruit of the Spirit would be manifest in the sons of oil, and the first thing is love, that is the gold, which by the golden tubes they empty out of themselves. And then fidelity would touch on what you are saying

as to the bolts.

E.A.K. "Iron and brass shall be thy bolts".

G.R.C. It suggests fidelity in maintaining all that is due to God against all comers, but in the liberty and grace of sonship.

P.L. Tardy matters, do you think, that may hang about, brought to completion in the energy of the Spirit, in keeping with His present voice. We are suffering from that, I think, in some quarters. A tardiness to come into line universally with what the Lord in the Spirit's voice in God's house has manifestly made clear.

J.S.E. Such as?

P.L. Well, the matter of associations; and a reluctance, for instance, to furnish a united front universally in regard to the exercise raised last year as to having the morning meeting an hour earlier; so many marked by the hesitancy of unbelief that isolates such gatherings from the main current of the Lord's operations, and exposes them to the enemy ready to cut off stragglers.

G.R.C. Would you not say that if we were in the liberty and joy of sonship there would be no tardiness? But then how are we to meet it? We shall not help one another if we meet these matters in a harsh and legal spirit.

P.L. Far from it. But, as you say, in the liberty of sonship Paul here is very firm for the truth the Lord has given, and takes a faithful stand in regard even to such a brother and gift as Peter, which we can only thank God for.

G.R.C. Therefore we need to see the seriousness of the legal element. We may endeavour to meet the loose element at Corinth, the feature of leaven that was there, with the legal element, which is also called leaven in this epistle, in chapter 5: 9. It says, "a little leaven leavens the whole lump". The leaven of Judaism is a most serious attack, because it would

undermine the whole church position. Therefore in writing to the Galatians he does not speak to them about the assembly, except as the Jerusalem above which is our mother. He does not attempt to tell them anything about assembly administration, or the working of the body. He was free to tell the Corinthians that, but once people are dominated by the principle of law, which is referred to in this epistle, you cannot speak to them of the practical working of the assembly until there is deliverance. That is why I think it is right to say that only those in the liberty of sonship can be true churchmen.

J.S.E. Would you say that in these circumstances Peter was found wanting in true churchmanship?

G.R.C. I certainly would. He was giving up the whole church position -- the practical truth of Jew and Gentile reconciled to God in one body by the cross.

J.S.E. Is that why Paul meets it with an allusion to the Son of God?

G.R.C. I think so. The fact is the leaven of legality is a terrifying principle. Even Peter came under the power of it. It says, "he drew back and separated himself, fearing those of the circumcision; and the rest of the Jews also played the same dissembling part with him". Apparently Paul was the only man not afraid of the law teachers. These teachers were most brazen, because they had gone out after the 15th of Acts, after matters had been settled at Jerusalem. They had the effrontery to go into Galatia and infect the whole province with this leaven.

P.L. That shows that Jerusalem was, alas, steadily retrograding in spite of the light afforded through the gathering in Acts 15. If we do not act on light, do we not drift?

Ques. What do you mean by a churchman?

G.R.C. To begin with, Paul does not introduce the

truth of the one body in Romans until, in his teaching, he has brought us into the liberty of sonship in chapter 8. Sonship is not introduced in Romans until chapter 8; it is not introduced until we arrive at it experimentally. Romans is an experimental book. Actually we are all sons of God by faith in Christ Jesus, but in his teaching in Romans he does not introduce sonship until we become, in a spiritual sense, true Israelites; until we belong characteristically to the Israel of God. This means that we have been through the exercises of Romans 7 and the early part of Romans 8, so that we are characterized by the Spirit; we are, in a practical sense, the Israel of God. God said, "Israel is my son, my firstborn". No one who is not characteristically "Prince of God" can truly enjoy sonship. He may be a son, he is a son if there is faith in Christ Jesus, but he cannot enjoy sonship in a settled way unless he has been through those exercises which constitute him characteristically one of the Israel of God. We need an income of spiritual wealth requisite for the dignity put upon us before we can enjoy the relationship. And after sonship is arrived at experimentally in Romans 8, then in Romans 12 he can beseech the sons to present their bodies a living sacrifice, as an intelligent service, in view of the one body in Christ, which is the most elementary idea of the assembly. Other scriptures could also be brought forward in answer to your question.

J.T.Jr. All Christians are sons by faith, that is what the scriptures say, by faith in Christ Jesus. There are many Christians that are not walking in separation, and that is because they do not accept the light. Mr. L. has been drawing attention to light.

G.R.C. And so God says at the outset, "Israel is my son, my firstborn ... Let my son go". The son was to be brought out of Egypt and Israel was to dwell alone. Is that right?

J.T.Jr. Quite, and so as come out of Egypt they come into a bond with God.

G.R.C. Quite so. The one in whom sonship is seen so fully, that is Paul, ends this epistle by saying that he bears in his body the brands of the Lord Jesus. The one who, more than any other of like passions, enjoyed sonship was the one who was essentially the slave of Jesus Christ, and of God.

R.W.S. And meets the condition by travailing in birth (in chapter 4: 19), "my children, of whom I again travail in birth until Christ shall have been formed in you".

G.R.C. Yes. It was maternal affections. He took character from the Jerusalem above which is our mother.

A.H.G. Do you mean that the saints need to be helped into this matter of sonship in order to meet these adjustments effectively?

G.R.C. That is what I have in mind. If we look at the passage we read in chapter 2, we see how Paul himself became characteristically one of the Israel of God, how he went through the exercise. He said, "I, through law, have died to law, that I may live to God. I am crucified with Christ". And the last chapter shows that that involves also his position relative to the world; he was crucified to the world, and the world to him. "I am crucified with Christ, and no longer live, I", there is the full substitution, "no longer live, I, but Christ lives in me; but in that I now live in flesh, I live by faith, the faith of the Son of God". He does not go back to law to live; he is justified by faith, and he lives by faith; "I live by faith, the faith of the Son of God, who has loved me and given himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God". We are not to set aside the grace of God, "for if righteousness is by law, then Christ has died for nothing". Now righteousness in no sense is by law. We are reckoned righteous, justified, by

faith, without works of law. But then practical righteousness cannot be by law either; it never has been, and never can be. Practical righteousness is by the Spirit. The Spirit is life on account of righteousness. Therefore we need to encourage one another to live by faith, the faith of the Son of God, and what is complementary to that, to rely upon the Spirit. It is a complementary thing, because he immediately goes on to say to the Galatians, "having begun in the Spirit, are ye going to be made perfect in flesh?" That is, if we go back from faith to law, we are going back from Spirit to flesh.

J.T.Jr. Separation from evil is not legality. It is the principle on which J.N.D. moved, and it is to be carried forward in our souls.

G.R.C. Separation from evil is essential, and it is to be done by faith and in the power of the Spirit in the liberty of sonship. We should encourage one another, I believe, on those lines.

J.T.Jr. We should encourage each other to be in keeping with the truth of separation.

G.R.C. Quite so.

J.T.Jr. That is brought up in 2 Timothy 2, and we had it this morning in 2 Corinthians 6, and it is not legality.

Ques. Speaking of unity, did not J.N.D. say that separation from evil is God's principle of unity?

E.P. Does it not say in Timothy that "God has not given us a spirit of cowardice, but of power, and of love, and of wise discretion", in view of dealing with these matters.

G.R.C. I am sure that is helpful. The Spirit is sufficient for us. It is a question of faith and the Spirit. If faith is active. and we are relying on the Spirit, there will be separation to God in heart and in walk.

A.H.G. Have you the thought that the faith of the Son of God has a great bearing on this matter -- the

light of the Son of God in the heart?

G.R.C. Yes, and especially viewed, as Paul is viewing Him, as our substitute; "the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me".

J.S.E. One does not want to be severe, but these two allusions to faith and the Spirit, do they not become evidently deficient in us if tardiness marks us? There is such a thing as waiting upon something to turn up, instead of doing something myself. Does that not betray a deficiency of faith on the one hand, and a deficiency in the liberty of sonship on the other?

G.R.C. And does not the presentation of Christ at the beginning of chapter 3 help as to that, "O senseless Galatians, who has bewitched you; to whom, as before your very eyes, Jesus Christ has been portrayed, crucified among you?" Might not that be regarded as an allusion to the red heifer which was slain before Eleazar's eyes?

R.M.Y. Do you think it was portrayed in the person of Paul?

G.R.C. I would say so, and specially in his ministry.

C.H. Mainly his ministry, do you think? The powerful effect of the ministry in the Spirit. It is the idea, is it not, of setting the thing out on a canvas.

G.R.C. Is it not set out very clearly in Numbers 19?

C.H. Quite so.

A.B.P. Would not the brands also come into that? I wondered if they were not administered in the same spirit in which Jesus had been crucified.

C.H. They were the brands of a slave.

J.S.E. Is not the crucifixion presented here as the murderous attack of the leaders connected with the legal system?

G.R.C. Quite so; and yet while men crucified Him, there the judgment fell, did it not? He took the guilt upon Himself.

J.S.E. Yes, but I was thinking of the word crucified. The judgment fell on Christ at the hand of God, but that did not fall on Paul, and yet Paul says, "I am crucified with Christ".

G.R.C. It was really the grace of God that he could take the ground of being crucified with Christ. It is a marvellous thing that a man is privileged to take that ground. Crucifixion means that Christ became a curse for us, to redeem us out of the curse of the law. We have to see first the grace of God expressed in Christ taking our place.

J.S.E. And does that not raise questions with us as to how far we have accepted, whilst we are here, the position that has been accorded by men to Christ.

G.R.C. Do you think, therefore, that we can help one another by this portrayal: "Jesus Christ has been portrayed, crucified among you". If this portrayal were understood, what emotions it would arouse in us!

J.S.E. So that if I am tied up with something outside of the truth and the liberty of sonship, I could be of no positive help at all to any of my brethren. The thing must be seen in myself. And is not that the way that Paul is dealing with matters; he is presenting himself as the one where the portrait of the thing is. So that he had already withstood Peter to the face in faithfulness. Some might have called him legal; they might have called him harsh, but is it not the liberty of sonship that enabled him to withstand Peter to the face as he did?

G.R.C. I am sure it was. And what he shows is that the whole truth of the gospel was at stake. The Galatian attack involves the whole truth of the gospel, and, therefore, it seems to me we should take account of the way we are meeting things. Is it by this portrayal, and by encouraging persons to move in faith and in the Spirit?

H.V. Would you say something, please, about

chapter 5: 24, "But they that are of the Christ have crucified the flesh with the passions and the lusts". How is that connected with what is being said?

G.R.C. I think he is putting them on their mettle. That is the idea of admonition. Admonition is not legality. We should admonish one another. Admonishing one another is telling one another what we are, and what is proper to us because of what we are. Telling us what we ought to be would merely put us back under law. But he says "They that are of the Christ have crucified the flesh with the passions and the lusts". We might say to a member of a royal family, "A king's son does not act like you are doing". He is a king's son, and we are admonishing him; we are reminding him of what he is and what is proper to him. And what is proper to those who are the Christ's is that they have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.

W.C. Immediately he follows it by, "If we live by the Spirit, let us walk also by the Spirit". That would settle a lot of legal matters, would it not, if we really were committed to the Spirit, to walk by the Spirit.

G.R.C. It would. The Spirit is wholly available to us. is He not? The idea of sons of oil seems to me a wonderful thing. It is open to each one of us to be a son of oil.

J.T.Jr. It is an interesting matter that you bring up in Zechariah. What really precedes it should be attended to, too, that the filthy garments are taken away. That is prior to what is said about the sons of oil. You have the place Jerusalem, the place God has in mind for Himself, and then you have the personnel in chapter 3 of Zechariah, Joshua, with filthy garments, and they are taken away from him, and that is just what is needed.

G.R.C. In a practical way it is needed.

J.T.Jr. Well, we are to see to it, and the local assemblies should see to it.

G.R.C. Although, primarily, I suppose, the filthy garments taken away would be the re-establishment of the remnant, who felt the state of things and all the sins of the dispensation, typically in the joy of the gospel. The truth of the gospel had not changed.

J.T.Jr. Quite so. But the truth of the gospel is the whole gospel, which takes us down to the death of Christ. The crucifixion is spoken about in Galatians, that is the point he is making.

C.A.M. Is it remarkable that there was one man who could refer to the fact that he was crucified with Christ. If we think of the thief on the cross, he was delivered by a request that he should be saved, made to the Saviour, from the cross. But his testimony was to the perfections of Christ.

C.H. Is your point as to sonship that it should not delay faithfulness, because the Son Himself was very faithful in regard to His Father's house, even taking a whip of cords; and in the end of Matthew, where sonship is inferred, you get the taking things up with the brother in chapter 18. Is it your point that sonship dignity would help us to do that in a suitable way. It does not mean that it is not to be done?

G.R.C. Not at all. It is a question of the way it is done. Chapters 16 - 18 of Matthew surely help in this because Peter, as named by the Lord, represents one of the sons of the living God (see Romans 9:26); and chapter 17 brings in sonship on the mount, and then sonship down in the responsible sphere; so that the truth of sonship is established in that section. Then the spirit in which such a one would move is in chapter 18 -- the spirit of a little child -- and the great point of the chapter, as we know, is to gain the brother. But then it does not mean lack of faithfulness -- rather the contrary.

C.H. The word "reprove" in chapter 18: 15 is a word that involves that I am able to show the true

nature of the thing. Does not that show that I have come to a judgment myself about things? You cannot really show the true nature of a thing if you have not really come to a judgment yourself.

G.R.C. And can we be in the liberty of sonship ourselves unless we have come to a true judgment? Is not that the point of Romans 7 and 8? In arriving at sonship experimentally we have come to a judgment according to God about our whole state as in flesh.

C.H. Quite so.

A.J.G. Do you think there is something important in chapter 5, where it says, "Ye ran well; who has stopped you that ye should not obey the truth?" Is that not what is of such importance, that the truth is to be obeyed? We have not got to wait till we have got faith to obey it, we have got to obey, have we not? It is as we obey the truth that we come into the truth.

G.R.C. As I understand it, obedience, according to God, is always the obedience of faith.

A.J.G. Quite so; obedience that finds its power in confidence in God; but still the truth is there to be obeyed, is it not?

G.R.C. It is. The word of God comes to us, and the answer to it is the obedience of faith. It should be obeyed in faith.

A.P.C.L. When he says, "I do not set aside the grace of God", would he have in mind that the grace of God is an active matter that teaches us, according to Titus 2:12, how to move in certain conditions. in relation to what Christ is securing?

G.R.C. I am sure that is right. Perhaps you will enlarge on it.

A.P.C.L. We sometimes have, I feel, a defective idea of grace. But grace is the operative principle, is it not, on which God moves, and by it He brings salvation, and teaches us how to live, setting aside matters which would hinder us.

G.R.C. The grace of God is a wonderful thing. Working out through the Lord it says, "of his fulness we all have received, and grace upon grace", and again, "grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ". It is a subsisting matter, and the supplies are endless, and they work out in the teaching here in the Spirit. What inexhaustible supplies of grace there are in the Spirit! James says He gives more grace. James 4:6.

R.W.S. Would not the Spirit help us to do violence to national characteristics?

G.R.C. I am sure He would, and He would help us through this portrayal, because we are all partial to our own national characteristics. But if Jesus Christ is portrayed crucified among us, then we see that every natural and national characteristic has gone into the burning. All that I am prone to admire in myself, alas, I would see it there gone in the burning.

R.W. When it speaks in Acts 11 of Barnabas having gone down to Antioch, it says, "having arrived and seeing the grace of God, rejoiced"; and did that make way for the teaching of Paul?

G.R.C. I think so. Grace was operating, and Paul was the man to establish them in it; but grace does not mean compromise. It is the power for faithfulness.

J.S.E. In Matthew the Lord insists on His baptism being connected with the fulfilment of all righteousness. And when John gave way to that, it says of Jesus, that the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending upon Him as a dove, and then the voice, "This is my beloved Son in whom I have found my delight". Is there a pattern there that the delight of God is in the Son, and will be in us as we move practically and thoroughly on this highway of righteousness?

G.R.C. John was not understanding at that time

what all righteousness meant. He would have prevented the Lord identifying Himself with the repentant remnant. John, I suppose, had not fully apprehended grace, he did not belong to this dispensation. All righteousness, as I understand it, involves the true representation of God at all times, and we see that in the Lord in the Gospels. Whatever case was brought before Him, the representation of God was absolutely perfect. Man being God's image and glory (1 Corinthians 11:7) the true representation of God is the measure of man's responsibility.

J.S.E. So that this tardiness to which reference has been made is an evidence that righteousness is not being fulfilled, and therefore the heavens cannot be opened to us, and we cannot have the sense of divine approval because we are not exactly in the liberty and joy of sonship.

F.J.F. A person might adopt a son, but he cannot give him the spirit of sonship. It is in the Spirit's power alone that we can enjoy it and practise it.

G.R.C. And then, as receiving the Spirit, it says in chapter 4: 6, "Because ye are sons, God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father". This is happily true of all who have received the Spirit, and therefore the youngest believer, in the realm of privilege, can be carried into the liberty of sonship, and the joy of it, because the Spirit of God's Son cries in his heart, "Abba, Father". But to come into sonship substantially the way is marked out for us in Romans, and then it says. "We have received a Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father". And that is not only in the realm of privilege, and it is not simply the Spirit crying it. It is we who are crying it in the realm of suffering and testimony. It is sonship substantially, sonship known every day of the week.

A.B.P. So in Romans 8, where it says, "If Christ be in you, the body is dead on account of sin", does

that involve the appropriation of the teaching that we have earlier in the book, so that the Spirit may be free in us to bring in life and peace?

G.R.C. I think so. The body is dead means deliverance. It is this body of death in chapter 7, "who shall deliver me out of this body of death?" But once you come to the point that if Christ be in you, the body is dead, that is deliverance; and the Spirit is life, on account of righteousness. Now you have a body that you can present, and the passage goes on to the liberty of sonship as led by the Spirit of God. What will He immediately do? Among other things, He will lead you to present that body to God; not now a body of death, but living, holy and acceptable. Such is a son of oil. His body is living, holy and acceptable because it is a vessel of the Spirit.

A.B.P. In that sense "Christ in you" is Christ in you militantly, is it not? I say that because of an impression that I got years ago from our beloved brother, Mr. Taylor, that he linked it on with Joshua breaking the power of Amalek.

G.R.C. I remember that; I would like more help on it.

A.B.P. I wondered if it is not the appropriation of Christ in the active power of militancy to meet the conditions which would prevent us from entering into life, so that the Spirit can be free to be the power to bring us into life and peace.

G.R.C. So Paul says here, "Christ lives in me". On his side he is living by the faith of the Son of God, but the result in him is that Christ lives in him. "No longer live I", that is a delivered man.

A.H. How do you understand that expression, "Christ lives in me"?

P.L. Wholly given over to Christ, would you say?

G.R.C. I would say so. Nothing was seen in that man but Christ. Christ was living in his affections,

and there was nothing seen in him but Christ.

A.B.P. Does it link with 2 Corinthians, "bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus, that the life also of Jesus may be manifested"?

G.R.C. I think that is how it would work out in testimony.

A.W. Why does it say, "crying, Abba, Father"? The Lord said, "Abba, Father" in Gethsemane.

G.R.C. Does it not show the urgency of the Holy Spirit in the matter?

A.W. Is it not the delivered man who cries; it is the cry of deliverance, of victory, you might say.

G.R.C. It would be in Romans 8; but one would think in Galatians 4 it is the Spirit's own urgency, so that young believers, whose experience may yet be little, need not be discouraged, because, in the realm of privilege, the Spirit will see to it that they are brought into the joy of sonship, and can fulfil their functions in the assembly.

J.S.E. Could it be intelligently said that in Romans the cry is in the joy of sonship, whereas in Galatians the cry of the Spirit is in view of the saints coming into that joy?

G.R.C. Yes. He would give us tastes of it, would He not, with a view to our being prepared to face the exercises of Romans, and coming into the joy of it substantially?

R.G.B. The Lord said, "Abba, Father", in the face of His greatest sorrow. Do you think we would be helped from flinching from the sufferings that obedience to the truth involves, if we were more in the joy of sonship?

G.R.C. That seems the setting of Romans 8, "If indeed we suffer with him".

J.T.Jr. Then in regard to the matter introduced as to Christ, as militant, there are the two sides of things in regard to the truth; one is the privilege side, the other is the side of conflict, and Joshua had

to do with both; and conflict is not legality. There is conflict in regard to these matters, and it is a question of Christ in us, what that means. Our brother has alluded to Gethsemane. It is certainly an interesting reference. The Lord could speak to His Father, and yet the greatest conflict was in view.

G.R.C. Yes, "being in conflict he prayed more intently".

C.H. You are not, in what you said earlier, making the term "legality" a synonym for faithfulness, are you?

G.R.C. No, not at all.

C.H. I think that ought to be made clear.

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H.C. Could you help us as to the difference between legality on the one hand, and the imperative commandment of the Lord?

G.R.C. The commandments of the Lord are imperative, but they are to be applied in the spirit in which Paul applied them; they are applied in consistency with the dispensation in which we live. That is how I understand it.

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G.M. Is there a reference that would help us in Genesis 48, where the matter of sonship is referred to, and Jacob spoke of "the God that shepherded me all my life long", and of "the Angel that redeemed me". Would not a knowledge of, and intimacy with, the Spirit be the secret of being helped in these matters?

G.R.C. This book stresses the Spirit very much, as we have noticed. And we need to know the Spirit, and to give Him full place, as olive branches, sons of oil, and I believe that is the way we come into the gain and liberty of sonship.

Now if we might pass on to the last chapter, it says, "For in Christ Jesus neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision; but new creation. And as many as shall walk by this rule". The rule of new creation seems a very important thing to apprehend. And

then he says, "peace upon them and mercy, and upon the Israel of God". As I understand it, the Israel of God are those who alone enjoy sonship substantially. "Israel is my son, my firstborn". God does not depart from the idea of Israel. His son is a prince, a prince of God; and unless we are in the gain of the Spirit so that we have got an income commensurate with the dignity of the relationship, we cannot enjoy it. Romans 8 shows that we have an income in the Spirit commensurate with the dignity of the relationship in which God has set us. We are princes of God. You could not think of God's sons being other than princes. So these last words, I think, are important, the rule of new creation, and the Israel of God; because the Israel of God would walk according to the rule of new creation.

A.B.P. Is Paul a son of oil when he says, "peace upon them, and mercy", the bringing in of peace? Would the oil suggest that?

G.R.C. I would like to know more of what is in your mind.

A.B.P. I was thinking of Luke 10, where the lawyer could set out the truth perfectly, but was not balanced by the priestly service of the son of oil. I thought the son of oil came in in the Samaritan, with the result that the Lord says to the lawyer, "Go and do thou likewise". I wondered if that might illustrate what you had in mind in relation to what is legal as seen in the lawyer.

G.R.C. That is very interesting. The Samaritan brings all supplies, does he not, and the oil is first, and then the wine, showing the need of oil if there is to be healing and joy.

A.B.P. So that the power of the kingdom comes into operation in Luke 10 -- righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Ques. Does Revelation 11 show the sons of oil in the scene of suffering and testimony?

G.R.C. Quite so, and you could not think of them as being other than entirely separated to God. The Spirit would not be free in them, they could not be sons of oil characteristically, otherwise.

J.J.T. Could we have some help on the rule of new creation that has been referred to?

G.R.C. It is natural to us to like rules. We have the Lord's commandments, they are imperative, but we may individually and otherwise make rules for ourselves. But here he says, "as many as shall walk by this rule". We were speaking this morning about the judgment and outlook that Paul had, his outlook on new creation. New creation is already existing, not the new creation in its fulness at present, of course, yet new creation is already existing, and if anyone is in Christ he finds himself in a system of things and of relationships which are in Christ and entirely new. It is good to see that new creation is already existing. We can see it here in this hall -- God's workmanship, persons created in Christ Jesus for good works; and features of the new man marking them, which is created after God. Well now we are to walk according to the rule of new creation. This is our walk, not simply our outlook. We walk according to it. It involves what Paul says, knowing no one after the flesh, and thus all social, national and racial distinctions are rejected in our links with the brethren; we repudiate them, they do not belong to this order of things; nor, of course, do any worldly links and associations. And I think Ephesians 2, which refers to our being God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, goes on to speak of the new things in which we are to walk. It speaks of the new man, "that He might form (or create) the two in Himself into one new man"; it speaks of the one body, reconciled to God in one body by the cross. And then it goes on to speak of our citizenship, and the temple, and a habitation of God in the Spirit. These are all

new things, and we are to govern ourselves in our walk by these new things. We are to walk as those who have put on the new man, and who belong to the one body, and who are fellow-citizens of the saints, and who belong to the household of God.

J.T.Jr. He precedes that by the cross; he says, "But far be it from me to boast save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom the world is crucified to me, and I to the world".

G.R.C. That is most important.

J.T.Jr. We will not know much about new creation if we do not understand that. It is the world in both settings.

G.R.C. The world crucified to me, and I to the world.

F.J.F. Should the Lord Jesus Himself be the centre of every gathering with us?

G.R.C. I would say He is that normally, through grace.

J.T.Jr. And where He is, there is ecstasy, is there not?

G.R.C. Good. I was thankful for the word last night as to the cross, immediately after the light of the assembly.

E.E.P. Would the reference to the brands of the Lord Jesus help us in relation to the Lord's supper? I have in mind the testimonial side, and what we lay our hands on on Lord's day morning.

G.R.C. The brands of the Lord Jesus bear on all that we have been saying as to the sufferings of the testimony, which one, alas, can say little about. But Paul bore them in his body, the brands of the Lord Jesus.

J.M. Paul points out that these law teachers were seeking to avoid persecution because of the cross of Christ.

M.H.T. As to the question of the rule of new creation, is it of interest to see that in 2 Corinthians 10

the apostle contrasts what he speaks of as "our rule" and "another's rule of things made ready to hand"?

G.R.C. He is referring there to service, which is a different thing. It is the measure of the rule which the God of measure had appointed. But the sons of God walk by the rule of new creation in the power of the Spirit.

A.B.P. What is the difference between that and the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus?

G.R.C. Is not that the power for the walk? Is it not like the well springing up? "The law of the Spirit ..". would involve subjection on our side. What would you say about that, Mr. T.?

J.T.Jr. I think there would be a connection with Romans 8 "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death".

G.R.C. That would set him free to walk according to this rule, would it not?

J.T.Jr. I think so. It is a matter of the Spirit in Romans 8, so that, as you have said, the Spirit is brought in here in Galatians. Things flow out from God through the Spirit; that is to guide us.

A.P.C.L. Why is the cross presented as "the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ" in this setting, giving the full title, and, in a certain sense, bearing on our assembly affections? Is it in view of stimulating us?

G.R.C. I would think so. The full title affects us.

A.P.C.L. I was wondering whether the legality, of which you have spoken, would militate against the idea of the radiancy which has come before us earlier?

G.R.C. It would. Paul speaks much about principles in this epistle; the principle of faith, the principle of promise, the principle of works of law, the principle of law, the principles of the world, the weak and beggarly principles. All of these have to be taken account of. The teaching of this epistle shows that the principle of law, introduced into

Christianity, would rob us of the truth of the gospel. He makes that clear in chapter 2: 4 - 5. Therefore he would not yield in subjection to it. So I think it is just the opposite, as you say, from the radiancy that is proper to the outshining of God.

W.D. Is it not remarkable that the Lord said to the two who wanted to call down fire from heaven, when the Samaritan village refused Him, that they knew not what spirit they were of?

G.R.C. Quite so.

--G. Why is the allusion to the Israel of God brought in in the end of verse 16?

G.R.C. I think it is the dignity of the saints as moving in the power of the Spirit. Israel means prince of God. The assembly at the present time is the true Israel of God. God said, "Israel is my son, my firstborn ... Let my son go, that he may serve me".

J.McK. Would the truth of sonship be the best possible way of setting love out? A son would be the greatest exponent of love, would he not? Is this not brought in over against their biting and devouring one another; so that in sonship, substantially, they were to bear one another's burdens.

G.R.C. Quite so. God revealed His Son in Paul, and sonship was seen in expression in him.

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FIFTH READING

Ephesians 2:11 - 18; Ephesians 3:8 - 21.

G.R.C. Access is referred to in both of these chapters. Access assemblywise is in mind; not that we have not access at other times, but this epistle would specially have in view access assemblywise. So in chapter 2: 18 it says "through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father", and then in chapter 3: 12 "in whom" that is in Christ Jesus our Lord "we have boldness and access in confidence by the faith of him". Without this access the service of God, in the full thought of it, could not proceed. When I say the full thought of it, I am thinking of the Lord's own words "I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God". Preceding the words as to access in chapter 2 much is said about unity, because it is evident that without unity our access assemblywise will be hindered. And so there are the expressions "one new man", and "that he might reconcile both in one body to God by the cross", and then the expression "by one Spirit". Unity results in peace, and peace is prominent. "He is our peace". Having endured the cross and by it slain the enmity, He came amongst His own and said, "Peace to you". I suppose the special emphasis on "peace" in Ephesians 2 is peace between man and man, in view of liberty of access; we both have access, Jew and Gentile, which would mean that it would cover all types of men as accepting the truth. And the result of access, in this chapter and in the next, is unison in praise, "To him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages". It is interesting that the section begins with remembering, taking us back, I suppose, to what we were in Egypt, and to the way we have been

brought out and brought nigh. We were without Christ, having no hope, and without God in the world; "but now in Christ Jesus ye who once were afar off are become nigh by the blood of the Christ". It seems a matter to note that, in approaching the thought of access, this remembrance should be brought in.

S.N.C. Would this remembrance give a richer note of praise to the service of God?

G.R.C. I think it would. We do not come together to remember these things, we come together to remember the Lord, but this would be the background.

E.A.K. Would it be like the worshipper in the land, in Deuteronomy, who goes back to Jacob his father being a perishing Aramaean?

G.R.C. It would. We get the idea of remembering in Deuteronomy. When they were in the land they were to remember.

C.H. Could you help us as to the comparison between this section and 1 Corinthians 12:13, where the Jews and the Greeks are referred to but as all having been baptised into one body? The two are brought together there, but as forming the body of Christ in the responsible setting, whereas here it is in view of approach.

G.R.C. So that the reference to the body here is that He might reconcile both in one body to God by the cross.

J.T.Jr. With reference to Egypt, we then could not bring anything of Egypt with us, in the approach. Is it significant that the rolling away of the reproach is in the early part of Joshua?

G.R.C. Yes, indeed. So that in the references in the verses that follow we have what is new. There is no trace of Egypt in the new man nor in the one body.

J.T.Jr. Then how do you view those persons who

are still in associations, in regard to approach?

G.R.C. If they are taking up the exercise, and facing it to the best of their ability, I would say they have liberty of approach. The apostle does not suggest disqualification in Corinthians, although there were many things yet to be adjusted. If there were resistance, and rejection of the truth, it would be a different matter. He does not even suggest in Corinthians disqualification from levitical service. At the end of the first epistle he exhorts the whole company, his beloved brethren, to be firm and immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord.

J.T.Jr. I do not quite follow that the apostle does not refer to the fact of dealing with evil in chapter 5. That would be paramount in approach to God.

G.R.C. Quite so. That evil was blatant and had to be met at once.

J.T.Jr. Well all evil is evil, no matter how great the magnitude of it.

G.R.C. We see divine wisdom operative in Paul in the different way he met the different kinds of evil referred to in the two epistles to the Corinthians.

A.P.A. It is remarkable that, on two occasions, the people are said to have worshipped in Egypt. Exodus 4:31, 12: 27.

G.R.C. The light of God coming into their souls led them to worship.

J.S.E. Would we not get help if we followed this section in Ephesians 2 from the standpoint that the brethren in Ephesus were holy and faithful in Christ Jesus? Could this beautiful thought of access as it is presented here be put before them if they were involved in anything evil?

G.R.C. We have to take account of the state the apostle is addressing. As you say he is unfolding things here which he did not unfold to the Corinthians.

J.S.E. And he could not; therefore he has to exhort

them to come out and be separated. But does he not address the Ephesians because they are out and are separated? And therefore the greatest features of the assembly are brought forward in this epistle.

G.R.C. He says to the Corinthians that he spoke wisdom amongst the perfect; he was restricted in what he could bring before them. But we have to take account of exactly what he does say in those two epistles. And we are assuming that brethren are coming out. We would give our brethren the credit for pursuing the exercise with honest hearts before God.

J.M. Brothers who are in these associations, and remaining in them, could not be abounding in the work of the Lord, could they?

G.R.C. We are not suggesting brothers remaining in them. I referred to his exhortation to the Corinthians.

J.M. But does he not keep the abstract thought in mind as to the saints throughout Corinthians?

G.R.C. I think that is the basis on which we can seek to help one another, and even wait upon one another in a right sense, because we can take the abstract view. His exhortation was addressed to his beloved brethren.

W.C. Even in this epistle, chapter 4: 17 "This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye should no longer walk as the rest of the nations", as if they still needed to be exercised as to anything that was of that nature, and to forsake it.

G.R.C. That is helpful, because, as to matters of evil, they beset us at all times. We have got specific things before us at the present time; but there is the whole matter of walking as the nations walk. If we do so it will certainly lead to disqualification.

T.J.G. What was in your mind when you spoke of brethren taking up the exercise, and facing it to the best of their ability?

G.R.C. It would have been better to have said "doing all that is possible".

T.J.G. You mean all that is possible, short of coming out?

G.R.C. I think my meaning is quite clear. In some cases it means a process. The word quoted in 2 Corinthians 6 is from Isaiah where it says "ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight; for Jehovah will go before you, and the God of Israel will be your rearguard", Isaiah 52:12. Prior to that it says, "Go out from thence, touch not what is unclean... be ye clean, that bear the vessels of Jehovah".

J.T.Jr. On that basis our brethren in unions could still be in them.

G.R.C. Not at all.

J.T.Jr. They certainly could if you just go out slowly.

G.R.C. I am quoting scripture. It does not speak of going out slowly.

J.T.Jr. Yes, but what does the scripture mean, that you don't go out in haste? It is not saying that you do not leave the evil.

G.R.C. Certainly not. But we cannot disregard the scripture, as to what it does mean.

J.T.Jr. I am not disregarding any scriptures. The scripture is in 1 Corinthians 5, "Put the wicked man out from amongst yourselves". That is wickedness.

G.R.C. But we are not speaking of 1 Corinthians 5, but of 2 Corinthians 6, and Isaiah 52. We must keep each scripture in its own setting.

P.L. In the purging in 2 Timothy 2, the word means "get rid", that suggests a right kind of haste. I should have thought the scripture in Isaiah bore on the dignity of their departure, that they did not go out as a rabble; they went out in rank.

G.R.C. That is just what I would think. They go out in military array, and the Lord goes before them. That in itself should encourage the brethren. It

would involve the arms of righteousness on the right hand and on the left in the manner of going out.

J.M. Was not the Exodus in haste, although they went out in rank. Did they not go out of Egypt in haste?

G.R.C. We must not set one scripture against another, nor use one to cancel out another. Each must be kept in its own setting. The return from Babylon was different from the exodus from Egypt, for it was carried out with deliberation and forethought, as Isaiah indicates. But there is one way in which the two goings out are similar, and that is, in both cases, the Lord went before them and He was their rear-guard. Like ourselves, the captives had forfeited all rights, yet God, as it were, says, "You shall go out with the same dignity with which you went out of Egypt".

C.H. Do you think what it says in the end of Exodus 14 might bear on this matter, "and Israel saw the great power with which Jehovah had wrought against the Egyptians; and the people feared Jehovah, and believed in Jehovah, and in Moses his bondman"? Is it a question of divine authority, and not just the dictates of brethren, being before the soul?

G.R.C. That is most important. The object in ministry is to lead souls to act in their own faith before God, not on a human dictate (see 2 Corinthians 1:24). And so the scripture in Isaiah is divine authority "Depart, depart, go out from thence, touch not what is unclean; go out of the midst of her, be ye clean, that bear the vessels of Jehovah". It is imperative.

R.M.Y. Do you not think that the scripture in Isaiah would suggest that they had not lost the initiative. They are not being driven out, but they are going out under divine command, even as they went out of Egypt. Is there not a danger of our losing the initiative in these matters?

G.R.C. That is very good, the loss of initiative would be the fruit of culpable delay, would it not?

N.W. It says in Psalm 24, "Who shall ascend into the mount of Jehovah? and who shall stand in His holy place? He that hath blameless hands and a pure heart". I wonder if the holiness and the glory of the access we have before us in Ephesians would lead us to say before God that before the next first day of the week we would be clear of everything out of keeping with it?

G.R.C. The clean hands and pure heart are essential. And each week we are called upon to prove ourselves, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. But the completion of an exercise before the next first day of the week may not be practicable. Thus no such injunction appears in 2 Corinthians 6; nor indeed in scripture.

E.C. May I ask as to Abraham. He was told to come out, but there was some delay; but when the Spirit of God records the fact in Hebrews 11, it omits all reference to the delay, and merely says that he came out.

G.R.C. The Spirit of God through Stephen does speak of the delay; and even in Genesis 12 it says, "Jehovah had said to Abraham". The Spirit of God makes no comment on the delay. He does not justify it in any sense.

A.B.P. Would you not say that in the context in Acts 7 there is the implication that he was hindering the Spirit, resisting the Spirit? Stephen summarises the whole history by saying "Ye do always resist the Holy Spirit, as your fathers, ye also".

G.R.C. I would not like to go as far as to say that Abraham resisted the Spirit; he may have hindered the Spirit, but to resist the Spirit is a very serious matter.

J.S.E. The scripture Mr. W. quotes is a question, "Who shall ascend?" But James lays it on us to do

something ourselves, to cleanse our hands, and to purify our hearts, and he uses two strong words in each of those cases. In the former he uses the word "sinners", and in the second "double-minded". Is there not a tendency just now, to act with this double-minded attitude, and fall back on waiting for something to happen instead of doing something ourselves?

G.R.C. No doubt there is that danger; and no doubt we are all taking this matter to heart as to purifying ourselves. It is a thing for all of us to look into, those in associations and those not; and, in a way, we are all in the associations if our brethren are in them. We have gone on with these things for years, we have not admonished our brethren. The apostle's word is "Let us". In grace he puts himself alongside the brethren. You might say, Paul does not need purifying, but he says "Having therefore these promises beloved, let us purify ourselves". He does not say "Purify yourselves", but puts himself with them, "let us purify ourselves from every pollution of flesh and spirit".

H.V. How do you connect Ephesians 5:7 and 8, and 11 and 12 with what you are saying?

G.R.C. I think it has a distinct connection, and shows that, while the Ephesian saints characteristically were faithful in Christ Jesus, yet these exhortations were still needed,

E.C. Does not the incident referred to regarding Abraham show the patience of God, and has not God been very patient with us, and should not there be a reflection of that in our attitude towards our brethren?

G.R.C. Quite so. When Abraham did move he was given full credit. "By faith Abraham when he was called obeyed". In that passage the Holy Spirit makes no reference to the delinquency.

C.H. At the same time do you think when light

comes we are responsible to answer to it? God sometimes, when light is not with us, regards it as times of ignorance, "These times of ignorance God winked at, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent".

G.R.C. One would not want to weaken that at all.

A.C.S.P. Might I ask whether you are drawing a distinction between the need of urgency where a person can get out, and the impossible situation, apparently, where one can only get out by unrighteously breaking a contract?

G.R.C. Quite so. Therefore we ought to ascertain the facts of a situation before we speak about brethren in a condemnatory way. Otherwise we become guilty of unrighteousness ourselves. Normally, I would say, we would give our brethren credit for doing all that is possible. If not, and there is delinquency of a culpable character, the Lord will make it manifest. "Let us purify ourselves from every pollution of flesh and spirit". While we are thinking of associations, it should lead to a general purification inward and outward with all of us.

J.T.Jr. What I would like to point out, which I believe is the light we have received, is that the assembly is governed by Paul's ministry, under the Lord, and we look at it from that point of view. Then we go into the types. But what governs the matter is Paul's ministry, and dealing with evil is the point of 2 Timothy 2 and 1 Corinthians 5. That is the principle that governs us. There is nothing else than that that governs the dealing with evil.

A.McG. Did not Mr. James Taylor teach us that in dealing with evil we act both on 1 Corinthians and on 2 Timothy, and the same word is used in both, and that is "purge out". In 1 Corinthians We purge out from among us, and in 2 Timothy we purge ourselves out.

G.R.C. In 1 Corinthians 5 it is "purge out the old

leaven", the whole company were to do it. The man was to be dealt with, but that was not the only evil at Corinth. Where the assembly has to take disciplinary action, the action is of little value unless it leads to the whole company purging out the old leaven. But then, as you say, in 2 Timothy the same word is used, but we are to purge ourselves out.

I think now we should move on to our passage, having in view the access. What is brought before us is Christ Himself, and what He has done; He is our peace, He has made both one, and "broken down the middle wall of enclosure, having annulled the enmity in His flesh, the law of commandments in ordinances, that He might form the two in Himself into one new man, making peace; and might reconcile both in one body to God by the cross, having by it slain the enmity; and coming, he has preached the glad tidings of peace to you who were afar off, and the glad tidings of peace to those who were nigh". All this precedes the thought of access. Then the word is "through him", this blessed Person who has been made so prominent in all that is said before. And then, "by one Spirit", or in one Spirit. It is the same preposition as in 1 Corinthians 12:13, "in (the power of) one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body", and so here, "we both have access in (the power of) one Spirit to the Father".

J.S.E. Is there some significance that this word access is not employed in any corrective letters? In Romans 5:1, it says, "we have also access into this favour in which we stand". Romans is peculiarly a foundational and therefore a constructive letter. Then we have the two references in this epistle which bring in what we might call the top level of the truth. But there is no allusion to the expression in the corrective letters.

G.R.C. What is the reason for that?

J.S.E. Because in the corrective letters there is

invariably something to get rid of. I think the scripture in 2 Corinthians is a very powerful illustration of that. If I am entangled in any way with what is laid out in 2 Corinthians 6 it seems to me I cannot just fit in to these perfect statements as to access.

W.C. Is the fourfold reference to peace in this passage, that there should be no disturbing element amongst us? If there is doubt about any that are not clearing themselves, does not that disturb the peace? It says, He is our peace, and He has made peace, and the glad tidings of peace.

G.R.C. And this is particularly peace between man and man, is it not?

W.C. Quite so. But I was thinking of the element of peace, and how the Lord has died to secure it amongst us.

G.R.C. It is a touching expression "He is our peace". So that you mean we should be energetic to remove anything that would disturb the peace, anything connected with the old man, including the links we have been speaking about.

J.T.Jr. Should not the blood, which is alluded to in verse 13, affect us, and stir our affections?

G.R.C. Very much so -- the blood of the Christ. And that is where we need to be moved, is it not, in our affections?

J.T.Jr. Well I believe it is. If the affections are pure, the inward side is right.

G.R.C. Calling on the Lord out of a pure heart means the affections are pure. If so, we shall not delay any action necessary to please Him.

F.J.F. Would it be comely for one who is still connected with these associations to remain quiet when we are going in to God, as regards his public utterances in assembly?

G.R.C. I would not like to answer that question, somebody else may do it better.

J.T.Jr. I would not say I could answer it. But I

would say that we have not any partial fellowship. There are not two fellowships, there is only one.

Rem. Did not J.T. say that a person is either in fellowship or out of fellowship.

-.L. What is the difference between our becoming nigh by the blood of the Christ, and access?

G.R.C. I think being made nigh is a more general thought. The children of Israel, through the blood, were brought out of Egypt, and their whole position was that they were near to God. But then access was a priestly matter.

H.C. It says in 2 Timothy 2 that the person shall have purified himself. It does not say that he is using energy to do it, but that he has done it.

G.R.C. He thus becomes a vessel to honour, sanctified and serviceable to the Master. Purification is an extensive thing. The matter of associations is especially before us, but the exhortations in 2 Corinthians 6 come down to "what part has a believer along with an unbeliever", which includes even the idea of companionships. Our companionships will defile us if we fraternise with those who are not committed to the fellowship.

R.W.S. And along with that is there not the thought of loyalty to the fellowship. "God is faithful by whom we have been called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord". Not only affection for the Person, but loyalty to the fellowship.

G.R.C. That is good; and the further word as to that is helpful, "God is faithful who will not suffer you to be tempted above what ye are able to bear".

T.V. I would like to ask as to keeping rank. There are two things that mark a good soldier, one he keeps in step, and two, he obeys the last command.

G.R.C. Quite so; and he does not entangle himself with the affairs of this life.

E.E.P. Is the son of oil linked up with the son of peace?

G.R.C. We are to look for sons of peace. The seventy who were sent out two by two were to look out for a son of peace. I would not say that "son of peace" is synonymous with "son of oil", but a son of peace would become a son of oil. We are to look out for a son of peace, because if we secure such a one, and his house, we have a basis for the assembly in the place.

E.C.M. Would you say a word in regard to access in chapter 2 verse 18 "through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father", and then in chapter 3 verse 12, "in whom we have boldness and access in confidence by the faith of him"? I was thinking of "through him" in chapter 2 verse 18, and "in whom" in chapter 3 verse 12.

G.R.C. As regards chapter 3 verse 12, "in whom" is our fixed position and status before God. But then it is in Christ Jesus our Lord which implies subjection to Him in our circumstances down here. We are to be right in matters of lordship. So it is "in whom we have boldness, and access in confidence by the faith of him". I would say that passage specially has in mind the full thought of assembly service as under the eyes of principalities and authorities in the heavenlies.

J.McK. Do you think that chapter 2 has more in mind the liberty and enjoyment of relationship, whereas chapter 3 is the full thought of the sanctuary?

G.R.C. I would think so.

C.H. These many exercises connected with our extrication, and the deepened appreciation of the blood of the Christ as bringing us nigh, would deepen our appreciation of the One through whom we have access. The apostle does not even repeat His name, does he? These exercises, therefore, are not just to be an end in themselves, but to enrich our appreciation of the way of approach through that

Person.

G.R.C. It is "through him", the One to whom he has been referring so affectingly; "through Him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father". You would say, Mr T., that this would link on with the full thought of the service as approaching the Father?

J.T.Jr. Yes, it is the presence of the Father, it is the Person. It is not the Father's house, it is the Person Himself that is in mind.

S.G. There is much reference to the Holy Spirit in the epistle to the Corinthians in the sphere of lordship, and now much reference to the Spirit in connection with approach to the Father. Would these references confirm that we have liberty to respond to the Spirit in the sphere of lordship, and again just at the point when we are moving to the Father in service?

G.R.C. I think we have liberty generally in referring to the Spirit in the realm of lordship. For instance in reading meetings, and all that comes under the Lord's hand, there is usually liberty in referring to the Spirit both thankfully and worshipfully; and, so far as I see, there is liberty for that, in a brief way, at the Lord's supper; that is in the course of giving thanks for the emblems. The whole service is to be in the power of the Spirit.

S.G. My enquiry really was about the portion of the service immediately following the supper.

G.R.C. Well when the Lord came in, it says they were glad when they saw the Lord. The Lord comes in and takes His place as Head. He showed them His hands and His side.

L.H.R. Does the scripture "And having sung a hymn they went out to the mount of Olives" bear on what you are saying at all?

G.R.C. That is a scripture to note. We are always in danger of trying to lay down in detail what should take place in the service of God. I think it would

be wrong to attempt to do that on an occasion like this.

C.H. References to the Spirit in regard of His augmentary service, if so led, are in order, surely. It is a question of what is in brethren's minds when they use the expression.

S.G. I was raising the question as to worship to the Spirit.

P.L. But the Spirit is peculiarly engaged in magnifying Christ, and as so engaged, He is not engaging us to worship Him, the Holy Spirit, surely; but He is concentrating upon the greatness and glory of Christ. It is the time of Christ's supremacy among the saints. "It is my Master", says the servant; nothing about Himself.

Ques. Is the Spirit suitably worshipped when we are addressing God at the end of the service?

G.R.C. I take it He is worshipped then as in the oneness of Godhead. Full honours are accorded Him along with the Father and the Son.

A.J.G. You mean that it is God as known in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, who is before the saints and is worshipped.

G.R.C. Yes. So that fullest honours are then accorded are they not, to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.

A.J.G. Quite so.

A.P.C.L. But it needs to be made clear that we are worshipping God, as Mr. G. says, in that Name. God is before us. Hymn 8 so beautifully distinguishes the Persons in Their personality; but God is before us. Is that right?

J.T.Jr. I must confess I do not know a great deal about it, not very much.

Ques. When we speak of worshipping the Spirit, have we got in mind thanksgiving and praise, or is it a further matter?

G.R.C. Surely homage of heart might come in at

any time. I suppose what is in mind is a vocal expression of worship to the Spirit. But if I am thanking the Spirit for His services, my heart may be bowed in homage to Him; in fact it is difficult to avoid that, and we would not want to.

J.S.E. Is not homage basic to any vocal expression?

G.R.C. I think so. Two words for worship are used in the New Testament, one meaning homage, stressing what is inward, the adoration of heart, and the other meaning the public act of priestly service. The latter word is used in Hebrews 9:14 and Philippians 3:3. The footnote on Hebrews 9:14 indicates that worship, in this sense, would include any expression of prayer or praise to a Divine Person.

W.R.M. Could we have some help on an expression which occurs in Mr. Raven's ministry, that is, that the Spirit is the bond between the Father and the Son?

J.R.H. Mr. Raven gave the reason for it in saying that the Spirit was the Spirit of the Father and the Spirit of Christ, and in that way was the bond between the Father and the Son.

G.R.C. I cannot explain what F.E.R. meant. But I know that, by the Spirit, we ourselves are brought into the flow of affection in both directions, the flow of the Father's affections for the Son, and the Son's affections for the Father. But I think we would all like more help on Ephesians 2:18. Perhaps you would say a word, Mr. T., as to what is in your mind as to the Spirit being worshipped at this point in the service.

J.T.Jr. I think that He is the means of approach to the Father. It is not a question of worshipping Him just here, but the order is through Christ and by one Spirit we have access. The point is access here; it is the Father that is in mind.

G.R.C. Yes. But what is your thought as to addressing the Spirit worshipfully before we approach

the Father?

J.T.Jr. Well I understand that if the Lord comes in to the assembly, He is on God's side, and He is before us as Lord, in the sense of all that He has done. But it is the immediate matter, you might say, that he comes in as Head. That is, headship is in view in relation to the assembly; so that He has the assembly, as Isaac had Rebecca, so that the relation between Christ and the assembly are in mind there, the affections; the way the Lord has the assembly all for Himself. He is free for it, and she is free for Him. Well then it is all the matter of Christ there; His supremacy in regard to the assembly. The Spirit is always present, as filling the matter out, but, as the Lord is the Minister of the sanctuary, I would say, as Head, He would lead in regard to the worship of the Spirit, as turning us to Him; and it would be that the bride is really the result of the work of the Spirit, the formation of the bride is by the Spirit. And so I believe the Lord would say there is some thing due to the Spirit. And I think that it requires silence to be really absorbed with the thought of the Spirit as before us worshipfully.

J.O.S. Does not the Lord magnify the Spirit in John's gospel, in chapters 3 and 4 and 14, 15, and 16?

G.R.C. So that He says as to the Spirit, chapter 14: 15, "If ye love me keep my commandments. And I will beg the Father, and He will give you another Comforter". That is, it is in the lordship setting, the setting of commandments, that the other Comforter comes and is with us. I think, therefore, we should recognise His presence in that setting. But then the Lord says "I am coming to you" and "ye see me". It is the power of the Spirit that we do see the Lord, and, as the Lord comes and we see Him He eclipses all; He becomes everything to us. And so the following chapters show that the Spirit has come to glorify Christ, and He does that in a peculiar way at the

supper and following the supper.

A.B.P. Do we have a typical suggestion of the feelings of the Spirit in Genesis 24, when it says that they set meat before the servant to eat, but he says "I will not eat until I have made known my business", and what ensues in the verses which follow seems to be the securing of the bride for Christ in type. Then after that when they say that "the thing proceeds from Jehovah, we cannot speak to thee bad or good. Behold Rebecca is before thee, take her and go away", then it says "they ate and drank". I wondered if we do not have in that type the feelings of the Spirit, that He would not look for a portion for Himself until union has been reached. While the scripture does not speak of union, it has in mind the securing of Rebecca for Isaac.

A.P.C.L. Might I enquire what Mr. T. had in mind when he spoke about silence in the glory of the Spirit coming before us.

J.T.Jr. Well it is the silence that is spiritual. Silence can be spiritual, and should be. To worship the Lord you have to have Him before you, it requires that your mind is under the control of the Spirit as you do it, and silence I think helps in these things, that you are enabled to control yourself; silence in regard to what is before you. J.T. has said that silence is a great matter in the service of God, it is spiritual power; in fact the sisters demonstrate it, they do not take part audibly, they are sitting in silence, there is something in that.

C.H. And that would find expression?

J.T.Jr. I think so, the matter would come into expression, if the Spirit comes before you in a worshipful sense.

A.J.G. Do you think there is any possible suggestion in Joshua? They crossed the Jordan, and then Joshua is magnified before their eyes, and then after circumcision has come in, the man with the drawn

sword presents himself, and says "As the Captain of the army of Jehovah am I now come", and Joshua is told to take his shoes from off his feet, for the place whereon he stands is holy ground, and he worships him. Is that a suggestion of the Spirit coming before us, and being worshipped, after the Jordan has been crossed and after the Lord has been magnified?

J.T.Jr. I would think so, I have always thought of that, that the man with the drawn sword, especially the sword, indicates the Spirit. That is, conflict is in view, but then privilege is in view too. Both are in view in Joshua, conflict and privilege, and I believe what you are saying is quite right.

C.H. And I think what Mr. C. said a little earlier, as to the Spirit glorifying Christ, and Christ having His true place in the assembly, coincides with what Mr T. has said now.

W.C. Did not Mr. Raven say that if the Spirit were presented objectively it would be right to worship Him, but he thought that He was not so presented. But has He not so been presented in ministry of recent times? Is not that a justification for us to look out for the time when the Lord would direct us to worship the Spirit?

A.J.G. Do you not think, Mr. C., that all these matters that are current amongst us are only stressing the importance of increasing spiritual sensitiveness on our part, so that we can recognise the Lord as Minister of the holy places, and be under His direction?

G.R.C. Yes I am sure, and the Spirit in the early part of the meeting would rapidly bring us to that I think. In fact the Lord Himself would. He showed them His hands and His side as he came in. Is it not important to have in mind arriving at the truth of union quickly?

A.J.G. I am sure it is.

T.U. Do you think that we need to grow in

intelligence in order to discriminate?

G.R.C. I am sure we do; and especially in this matter, which seems to require spirituality in a special way, because things relative to response to the Spirit are not prescribed in the way that other things are. We have the Lord's supper, we know that He is our occupation then; and we have "My Father and your Father, and my God and your God". But response to the Spirit seems to be left to the spiritual intelligence and sensibilities of the saints.

C.H. So that the direction of the service is under the Lord? He is the Director, but the consciousness of all, as far as we are concerned, is by the Spirit?

G.R.C. Quite so. The basic thing subjectively is "we worship by the Spirit of God". That runs right through the meeting. But then "we boast in Christ Jesus"; He comes amongst us, and the service proceeds under His direction.

J.S.E. What you have said about prescription and sensitiveness as to the Spirit I feel should be repeated and emphasised, because I believe it is crucial.

-.W. In the Song of Songs there is a double reference, where it says "I charge you daughters of Jerusalem that ye stir not up nor awake my love till he please". Does that suggest that, after the satisfaction of the heart of Christ, we would wait for an indication from Him as to worshipping the Spirit?

G.R.C. It emphasises the idea of the sensitiveness of love, that we are not to break in before the time. "That ye stir not up nor awaken love till it please", it might read.

J.T.Jr. Do you think the thought of "one" is to impress us. It might have read "by the Spirit". but it says, by one Spirit. As we sit together in the assembly do we not feel that the spirits of the brethren are in the thing; it is one thing in the mind and heart?

G.R.C. Quite so. It was that expression that impressed me. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, "in the power of

one Spirit we are baptised", and now here again "access by (or in the power of) one Spirit", as though our attention is fastened on Him. Is that what you have in mind?

J.T.Jr. It is the one prevailing thing in the hearts of the brethren.

A.J.G. So that the saints are thoroughly unified in the matter.

J.O.S. In Luke 24, the Lord comes into their midst, the local setting, and the lordship setting. Do we immediately pass into the sphere of privilege as seen in John 20?

G.R.C. As I understand it, Luke would show that sometimes the lordship side has to be extended because of our state. We may not be ready, we may not be in a state to move on at once. But I believe John 20 shows what is normal. The Lord does not pursue the subject of brethren. They come together in the light of that, and we can speak and sing about it. We might have thought the Lord would have enlarged on that subject, but He expects us to move quickly and we should be ready to move quickly; and to move not only as a result of what we hear, but as a result of what we see in the manner in which He presents Himself to us. And so, coming in, He shows them His hands and His side. Does not that indicate that the yearnings of His heart require that we should move on to the thought of union as quickly as possible?

A.P.C.L. Does the record in John 13, which is said to be during supper, help us. The Lord had certain matters to deal with and that would be in the lordship setting, would it not? He says "If I your lord and teacher".

G.R.C. That is so. Our state may require that the lordship setting should be extended.

SIXTH READING

Ephesians 3:8 - 21; Ephesians 4:1 - 13.

F.J.F. This morning, when we were speaking of praise and worship to the Spirit, was it in connection with His service to us, and what He is as on our side, or was it in connection with His place in the Godhead, as One of the glorious Persons of the Trinity?

G.R.C. We worship Him in His place in the Godhead at the close of the service. We worship God, the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit. But in earlier personal response to Him we recognise His Deity, and even in thanking Him for His services there should surely be homage in our hearts. But then we were specifically considering the suitability of response to Him at the point where the service of God in its full aspect commences, in accord with the Lord's words "I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God"; that is, after the truth of union has been entered into, and we are about to approach the Father. At that point we have experienced the way He has brought us to Christ, and are feeling the need of Him in the service before us. You may have something to add to that Mr. T.

J.T.Jr. Well nothing more than I said this morning. Mr. F. will probably remember his own part in other meetings, in which he alluded to the very point, that is, the taking account of the bride as having been the work of the Spirit. I think he will recall his own remarks in other readings with J.T. So that there is nothing that is being said, as far as I know, that does not conform with what J.T. really had in his mind.

G.R.C. Now if we might pass on to chapter 3, is not the Spirit presenting to us the service of the heavenly sanctuary in holy splendour, as under the

eyes of principalities and authorities in the heavenlies? It is under their eyes because it is a heavenly vessel. It belongs to the heavenlies, and has a place of precedence over them in the heavenlies, though not yet there in actuality. It should affect our minds and spirits as we think that we form the heavenly sanctuary, having a place, according to God's purpose, superior to the principalities and authorities that are there, and that they are taking account of things because God purposed that they should do so. It says that God "has created all things in order that now to the principalities and authorities in the heavenlies might be made known through the assembly the all-various wisdom of God, according to the purpose of the ages, which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access in confidence by the faith of him". One would judge that these principalities and authorities can take account of the all-various wisdom of God in a variety of ways relative to the assembly, but the crowning thought, one would suggest, would be in the service Godward.

J.S.E. Is the assembly viewed at this point as on the earth?

G.R.C. That is where we actually are, but, as in the service of God, in a spiritual sense, we are in the consciousness of our place in the heavenlies. The assembly here is the heavenly sanctuary in contrast to the sanctuary of old.

J.T.Jr. The word faith would prove that, wouldn't it?

G.R.C. It would. Faith has to be in activity right through the service, has it not?

J.T.Jr. So it is not literally in heaven, but faith is the point which is connected with access, which, I judge, must have some connection with the Spirit, the access by one Spirit. That is, faith goes along with the Spirit, does it not?

G.R.C. It does, it is important to see that.

C.H. Faith in fact makes way for the Spirit, does it not?

G.R.C. We receive the Spirit on the principle of faith; He has come to us on that principle, and He acts in us relative to that principle.

C.H. And as the light is held in faith in relation to this great system the Spirit can operate in relation to ourselves and it.

G.R.C. And how marvellous the system is, especially as we think of the Head, because, I take it, when Paul speaks about the unsearchable riches of the Christ he is thinking of the unsearchable riches of the One who is Head of the assembly.

J.McK. Does the expression in verse 10 "now to the principalities and authorities in the heavenlies" imply that a great and glorious climax has been reached in the assembly?

G.R.C. Is it not the culmination of God's purpose about the present time, the "now" in verse 10?

J.McK. Would it show that this very period was in the mind of God before time was?

G.R.C. It would. From the standpoint of this passage all things were created in view of the service in the heavenly sanctuary proceeding at the present time.

H.V. Could you say something about the administration of the mystery?

G.R.C. I think to understand that expression you have to consider the whole of Paul's ministry. He develops the administration of the mystery. It begins with the truth of the body according to Romans 12, bearing on our relations with each other; continues in 1 Corinthians 12, which refers to the body relative to the Spirit and His manifestations; then in Colossians which treats of the body relative to the Head; and then in Ephesians, the union of Christ and the assembly, and what the assembly is to God. Paul's

ministry shows how the truth of the assembly is to be worked out in a practical way down here.

J.McK. That would mean in various localities, would it?

G.R.C. That is how it must work out. It is to be taken up by every locality. The whole of Paul's ministry, relative to the assembly, needs to be in our minds.

P.L. So that the habitation of God at the end of chapter 2 is given fulness to body-wise, in chapter 3.

G.R.C. I thought so, under the headship of Christ. If we think of the unsearchable riches of the Christ, Solomon would be the type. With His unsearchable riches, the Christ endows the assembly, so that the assembly should be fully equipped in the service of God, and also in administration. In Solomon's history administration comes first, administration manward, both judicially in 1 Kings 3, and in the administration of the whole realm in 1 Kings 4. But it is all in view of the service of God.

A.J.G. Would you say why it is the feature of the all-various wisdom of God which principalities and authorities are to see; not the love of God nor the power of God, but the all-various wisdom of God?

G.R.C. When Paul first introduces the thought of the mystery at the end of Romans, his doxology is to the only wise God. I wondered whether the conception of the assembly, Christ and the assembly, is really the acme of divine wisdom. What would you say?

A.J.G. I think it is.

J.S.E. Would it be right to think of the habitation of God in Spirit as a kind of objective in the Spirit's mind when He brings in those who were far off and those who were nigh, and brings in the reconciliation into one body; but does chapter 3 present the assembly to us rather as a medium for the reflection of the all-various wisdom of God?

G.R.C. Quite so. God's wisdom is learned

mediately through the assembly, and I think it is learned both in assembly administration in the wisdom of the true Solomon, and also, in the fullest sense, in the service of God. The Queen of Sheba was an earthly principality, and she came to see the wisdom of Solomon. She saw the administration of his house, but it was the ascent which finally and most fully affected her, the ascent by which he went up to the house of Jehovah. And I think the ascent is in mind here, only it is presenting it from our standpoint, that we have access; but then we have access because Christ has gone in. I would say the wisdom of David and Solomon was seen in its highest character in the ordering of the service of God in the house of God.

--.H. Is not wisdom always derived from the Head? Do we not draw upon it from thence?

G.R.C. So that the unsearchable riches of the Christ would include riches of wisdom, and also includes all that is requisite, relative to the service of God; so that we not only have boldness through the blood, and in the power of the Holy Spirit, but we have a sense that we are equipped, having such a Head for the service; we have substance for it.

P.L. Would you give a testimonial setting also to this? The angels saw the beauty of creation, man in direction, and woman in subjection; and then they saw the Lord Jesus and witnessed the cross, and the death of the One who is their Creator. And now in God's house, in 1 Timothy, man lifting up holy hands, and woman in modest decorum; is that not also to be considered in this setting?

G.R.C. It is very interesting to think of what angels have seen from the outset, and this is one great climax of God's ways, that they should see the assembly functioning at the present time. It is interesting that, when it is a question of our responsible paths here, and the assembly here in the sphere

of responsibility as in 1 Corinthians, these great beings are called angels; but when the assembly is seen in its true dignity, as the heavenly sanctuary, they are given their titles of dignity, they are called principalities and authorities in the heavenlies.

A.P.C.L. Would you regard the principalities and authorities of chapter 6 as included in this, the evil ones? They are described as principalities and authorities in the heavenlies?

G.R.C. I had not thought that they were in mind in this chapter.

A.P.C.L. No. But I wondered if there is any suggestion of the divine order and wisdom being set out in the assembly, even in that regard.

G.R.C. Quite so. Those principalities, of course, would attack it.

A.P.C.L. That is what I mean. But then it is set out, is it not, as carried forward from this? The struggle is taken up in relation to this as the background.

G.R.C. That is interesting because it would show the level on which the conflict really is. Those principalities of chapter 6 are hostile, and, whatever form the attack takes, surely the great objective from their standpoint is to defeat God's purpose in respect of the present time, as set out in this chapter.

J.S.E. Would it be right to think of those in chapter 3 as sympathetic with all that God is working out, whereas those in chapter 6 are opposed to it? J.T. spoke of the invasion of the expanse, but the expanse is not fully captured. There is that part of it in which these sympathetic beings are, and eventually the others will be dealt with in judgment; and our struggle at the present is against them.

G.R.C. And, in that sense, we belong to the expanse; we are viewed in chapter 2 as seated in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus. These remarks help as to the real issue of the conflict.

W.C. And would not the way the conflict is met enter into the all-various wisdom of God being seen. Power in the assembly is greater than these other principalities and powers?

G.R.C. Indeed it is. And one cannot conceive a greater lever than this to help us to come out of all unholy associations. The service of God in holy splendour is in view.

C.A.M. Would you connect with this service the expressions of David in 1 Chronicles 29:10 - 12, referring to God "as Head above all", and to "riches and glory" and so on. He does refer to Solomon in verse 19, but I believe J.T. thought that David's expressions were the highest that we have in the Old Testament.

G.R.C. It seems to be the highest ascription of praise in the Old Testament, and it was given to David to express it, because David was the greatest man morally of that era. He was a greater man morally than Solomon, although Solomon's position was greater. So we have to merge David and Solomon, do we not, if we are thinking of the service of God?

F.J.F. Do the principalities and powers learn anything through the way in which discipline, in the removal of evil out of God's assembly or house, is carried out?

G.R.C. Solomon begins his reign with that, and his wisdom is noted. Then he organises the kingdom in a marvellous way, causing every part of the inheritance to yield for the blessing and joy of the people, but all in view of the service of God. Then the final thing is that he directs the service of God, and I think that is the great point in Ephesians 3.

J.McK. The heavenlies thus become energised by the affections and wisdom of God that is known through the assembly.

G.R.C. The assembly is soon to give a lead to the

universe as a whole. She is soon to be with Christ, the One who is above every principality and authority and power and dominion and every name named; and, as under His headship, she is to give a lead in praise to the whole universe.

C.H. Even the principalities and authorities, according to Colossians 2:10, are under His headship. Does that not show how the thing is possible to work out?

G.R.C. And did not F.E.R. stress as to that, that since they are all under His headship, none should come between us and Him. He is the Head of the body, the assembly; the body has a nearer place than any others who stand related to Him as Head. The formation of Eve was an extraordinary thing, viewed as a type of the church. She was different from all the rest of creation. Therefore the assembly has a place entirely peculiar to herself. She is His body, taken out of the Man.

J.S.E. With regard to your remarks about the first two or three chapters of 1 Kings, where Solomon's wisdom shone, it seems as though the Spirit carries that along in that book, so that the record of the Queen of Sheba's remarks stands related to his wisdom excelling everything else. She said, "In wisdom and prosperity thou exceedest the report that I heard", 1 Kings 10:7.

G.R.C. Now as regards the prayer, we often read it by itself, but is not Paul praying that the saints might be so furnished that they might be able to function in the vessel according to verses 10 to 12, marked assemblywise by boldness and access in confidence by the faith of Christ? "The faith of Him" is a beautiful expression; it would include that active faith which recognises Him as giving direction in the whole service.

A.P.C.L. Is that why it is the faith of Him, and not in Him, implying that He is before us in the

greatness of His Person, and in the greatness of the position He occupies?

R.M.Y. "That the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts".

J.T.Jr. I was going to refer to the same verse, because it would seem that it is not a question of the mind, it is a question of the heart.

G.R.C. So that the Christ dwelling through faith in our hearts, seems to be a primary matter if we are to be effective in the service of God.

J.T.Jr. I would think so, it is in our hearts. We may have much in our minds, but a great matter is what is in the heart, that is, Christ is there.

A.B.P. Would that mean that, in relation to David's greatness in the service of God, the foundation underlying it was really Psalm 51? I thought Psalm 51 linked on with our first reading, the necessity for the inward parts being cleansed. Everything must work out from within, must it not?

G.R.C. You are thinking of David now as typical of the saints, the way we come into these things.

A.B.P. Yes, and the way he has been referred to in 1 Chronicles.

G.R.C. He is a great example for us -- the moral greatness of the man -- a man who made mistakes as we all do and terrible ones, but the moral greatness of the man shines out; and that is what is needed in the service of God.

C.H. Can you tell us why the apostle bows his knees to the Father in this particular connection? It is not just the Lord or the Spirit; it is the Father.

G.R.C. It is wonderful that we have the Father as our resource in this greatest aspect of things.

W.S.S. The Father's Spirit strengthening us inwardly would bring us into communion with His thoughts as to the Christ and as to the assembly.

G.R.C. The Father loves the Son. It delights His heart that the Son is the Christ. That is the idea in

what the Queen of Sheba said of Solomon "to be king to Jehovah thy God", 2 Chronicles 9:8, the king is the Anointed, the Christ. How the Father delights that the Son should have the place of supreme direction in everything, because it means that everything that is in the divine mind will be secured. The Christ is the One in control and direction. But then if we are to be in the matter, He must dwell in our hearts by faith as the Christ.

W.S.S. So there is the wonderful possibility of being with Him now in the faith scene?

G.R.C. Quite so. The Father has named every family and set them in their place, to be an adequate setting for the Son as Centre. They are great concentric circles. But the assembly is united to the One at the Centre. She has, incomparably, the nearest place.

Ques. Is the Christ at the centre like the ark being brought into its place?

G.R.C. I think so. He is to have His place in our affections now -- dwelling in our hearts by faith. I think more than one type has to be brought into this passage. The ark represents as we might say, the fixed place Christ has as the Centre, the whole system depending upon Him in that fixed position. But Solomon refers to Christ as Head in an active sense, in active direction.

J.S.E. Is Paul illustrating here the peculiar possibilities as to access to the Father through Christ in the power of the one Spirit when he says, "I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ", exhibiting the blessedness and fulness which may issue from the enjoyment of that access?

G.R.C. I would say he is taking advantage of that access, to express his deep exercise to the Father relative to these most important things.

A.P.C.L. Does the fact that the word hearts is in the plural bear on us every one in relation to this

collective position?

G.R.C. It does. We have got to look to our hearts, as to whether faith is active.

J.McK. Would that make room for the thought of association with Christ? You spoke of union earlier on, where does association come in?

G.R.C. You mean by association our place with Him as sons? Both union and association are involved. The service is cumulative. The assembly does not cease to be the vessel, where each one is in his place, under the direction of the Head. But then each one is a son, and the assembly is a vessel of service. It is not simply sons at home, like Luke 15, but it is the sons in service, under direction. So that all the assembly of Israel gathered themselves to Solomon. They were all available under his direction.

R.G.B. Hence is there some importance in the reference to the Father's Spirit strengthening us in the inner man? I wondered if there was something peculiar in the thought of the Father's Spirit, as the One who, coming from the Father, had first-hand knowledge of the full range of His thoughts?

G.R.C. Quite so. And the word is "that he may give you according to the riches of his glory". One would like to know more about the riches of the Father's glory. It is according to that that He strengthens us by His Spirit.

A.J.G. Do we get some little sense of it as we contemplate that there are many families. The assembly is the unique one as united to Christ, but the Father's thoughts extend to many families both in heaven and on earth.

G.R.C. I think so. What riches of glory belong to the Father that He should have conceived a scene like this.

W.R.M. Could we link the last psalm with this chapter, "Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in

the firmament of his power"?

G.R.C. I think all that would enter into verse 21, "to him be glory in the assembly". Psalm 150 is the climax of praise in the Old Testament, and we are to arrive at the climax of praise as in the light of Christianity.

P.L. Would the Father impart through Christ a peculiar trait of His glory distinctive to every family, and will every family, in its respective abode in the Father's house, shine out in some peculiar grace and glory of the Father?

G.R.C. And do you think we need strengthening by the Father's Spirit to take in such a conception? The Father has conceived, in His love for the Son; that He should be thus surrounded; but do we need strengthening by the Father's Spirit to take it in? But first of all to appreciate and love the One who is the Centre -- that the Christ might dwell in our hearts by faith.

J.T.Jr. The special place the assembly has is in view here, would you say? While there are many families, yet what is immediately in mind is the assembly.

G.R.C. I think so. And will not the assembly give a lead to the praise of all the other families? They have not the access that we enjoy.

J.T.Jr. I would think that the many families that are alluded to would draw out our affections, but the strengthening of us with power by the Spirit in the inner man, is that the Christ may dwell, through faith in our hearts, not so much the mind, but the hearts. That is, I judge, what is so needed by us, that Christ is really in our hearts.

G.R.C. And then following that, being rooted and founded in love. Is it not a fact that only love can take in what love conceives? So that in chapter 1 it speaks of being enlightened in the eyes of your heart: Does that bear on it?

J.T.Jr. Yes I thought so, because we may have a great deal mentally; I suppose we all would own that, but how much Christ is in the heart is what one would be exercised about.

G.R.C. While Mary of Magdala in John 20 had not the intelligence of some at the outset, the point was she had a heart, and she had eyes in it, and she saw things very quickly, and became the most intelligent of any. Is that so?

J.T.Jr. Very good. I would say that chapter in John is a great help in the present time; the early movements and how she stayed there, and got it.

E.E.P. Would the Christ dwelling in our hearts through faith help us to see the great end in mind of God dwelling with men?

G.R.C. I think it would enable us to see the whole system. I do not think we can get a view of the system of glory until Christ has His place. "That the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts, being rooted and founded in love, in order that ye may be fully able to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height". We should note the word "fully" there. This is something exceedingly vast, the great range of things of which Christ is the Centre. But we cannot take account of the scope of it until, in our affections, we are in the centre through the Christ dwelling in our hearts by faith.

W.S.S. Does the expression "the Christ" embrace the whole system?

G.R.C. I would think it is Christ personally here.

A.J.G. Christ in relation to the whole system.

G.R.C. Christ in relation to the whole system, certainly. As the Christ He is anointed relative to it, and the whole system is anointed.

A.P.C.L. Would it in any way connect with the last verse of John 17, "I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known; that the love

with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them"?

G.R.C. I think it has a strong connection. The Father strengthens us by His Spirit that the love wherewith He loves the Son might, by His Spirit, be in us, and then, as a result, Christ in us -- Christ having His true place in our affections.

G.H. And whilst Christ dwells through faith in our hearts, does the apprehension involve spiritual intelligence and perception?

G.R.C. It certainly does. In chapter 1 it speaks of the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the full knowledge of God. You could not conceive of anything greater than the full knowledge of God; and then it adds, being enlightened in the eyes of your heart. We need the full knowledge of God if we are to arrive at the true climax of praise. But then the prayer of chapter 3 is to bring us also into the intelligence of the whole vast system of which God in Christ is the Centre.

G.H. And the word apprehension is used and not comprehension; so that there are limits, and yet what is there is apprehended.

G.R.C. And fully apprehended, but it could not be comprehended. We cannot compass that in which God is to dwell, but we can apprehend it.

A.J.G. Why is it that just before we reach this climax of being filled even to all the fulness of God he says "and to know the love of the Christ, which surpasses knowledge"? J.T. said years ago that we are supported by the love of Christ in the presence of what is infinite. But do we not need to know the love of the Christ, both for the assembly and for His Father, as that in the power of which He has given effect to the thoughts of God?

G.R.C. I am sure we do. Whilst it is the love of a Man, it is not the love of a mere man, for it surpasses knowledge. It flows in all directions, Godward,

to the assembly, to every family; it fills and supports the whole system. It is an active love. It says in Romans "the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord". In this blessed Person we know the love of perfect manhood, but the love of God is shining out in Him, too, filling the universe.

J.R.H. Will you please say something about being "rooted and founded in love"?

G.R.C. It shows how important love is, that whether the saints are viewed as plants, or whether they are viewed from the standpoint of building, love is the essential thing. Both rooting and founding are in love. Love gives us capacity for divine intelligence, because only love can take in what love has conceived.

J.R.H. It does not say whose love it is.

G.R.C. It is the divine nature.

W.C. Is it something like the reference in Isaiah, trees of Jehovah's planting, that He may be glorified?

G.R.C. Quite so. How great the fruit is, "that ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God". What can we say about that expression?

S.B. Does the "ye" refer to the assembly?

G.R.C. That ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God. It does refer to the assembly in the sense that all the personnel of the assembly are in mind here. There is not an empty vessel. And then you have this great result, "to him be glory in the assembly".

A.P.C.L. Is it your suggestion that we should experience this by the Spirit in a peculiar way in the service?

G.R.C. Is it not the thing we long to know more and more about?

A.P.C.L. In one sense it is preparatory to it, but in another sense it is the service, is it not?

G.R.C. Do you mean that filled to all the fulness of God is preparatory to the final response to God?

A.P.C.L. And also that the apostle is praying that these things might happen. They are, in one sense, preparatory to the entrance into the full idea of being filled, and then there is the ascription of glory.

G.R.C. In this prayer he has in mind that God's present purpose set out in verses 10 to 12 should be fully reached, and these are the furnishings we need to reach it, finishing with being filled to all the fulness of God.

A.B.P. Breadth and length and depth and height seem to suggest that we are consciously in the centre.

G.R.C. I would think so.

T.V. Does it stand in relation to individuals, or to the assembly?

G.R.C. I think the assembly is in mind throughout. It uses the plural, hearts, in verse 17 to show that we have got to be individually exercised, but I would say that the assembly is in mind throughout.

J.McK. Do you think it has in mind the assembly as serviceable in this vast system?

G.R.C. I think so. The assembly is soon to give the lead in praise to the universe.

J.S.E. At the present time the assembly is the system, is it not? "To him be glory in the assembly".

G.R.C. And yet, as in the assembly at the present time, if we were in the gain of this prayer, we would be fully able to apprehend with all the saints the breadth and length and depth and height of the whole system. Glory to God is in the assembly at the present time, but it is in the assembly as anticipating in spiritual power her place relative to the whole system, and having an outlook on the whole system.

W.C. Is the word "to him be glory in the assembly" referring to the outpouring of the fulness? Is the fulness to express itself in glory?

G.R.C. I think that is the result of being "filled even to all the fulness of God".

A.W. Why does he say "to him be glory", not

"to God be glory"?

G.R.C. I would say the pronouns of verses 20 - 21 refer back to God in verse 19.

A.P.C.L. Why is He brought on to our view as one able to do, in this setting, before the ascription of glory to Him?

G.R.C. Because what is in mind is so great that we could never ask adequately. Paul's prayer is a great example; but the question is whether any creature could ever ask adequately. But God takes account of our prayers, and, if we bow our knees to the Father in real exercise, we repeatedly experience that God does far exceedingly above all which we ask or think. No doubt the activities of each Person are involved, but especially the Spirit when it says, according to the power that works in us. It is a thing which promotes worship in itself, the continual experience that God does more than we could ever ask or think.

C.H. That is He does not finish with the sense of his spiritual need, or ours, but the greatness of the One who was able to meet it.

Ques. Does the expression "glory" here go beyond praise and worship which is vocal?

G.R.C. It includes praise and worship. "Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me", Psalm 50:23. Vocal praise is essential in the service of God; a silent assembly would not meet the position at all. Underlying the vocal praise there should be prostration of soul, inward homage and adoration, but there must be vocal praise. It is a necessity if there is to be glory to God.

J.S.E. "To God's glory and praise" is a scripture in Philippians, showing that you cannot very well separate them; and yet at this point the emphasis is on glory. Does it not show that God has the very best in the assembly?

G.R.C. I am sure. "To him be glory"; we are

ascribing glory to Him, and how worthy He is of it, the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit -- God. How worthy of all glory God is! And as we ascribe glory, we have in our minds that, while we belong to the assembly, which is the eternal tabernacle of God, and God is pleased to dwell with us and we are conscious of His dwelling and filled to all His fulness, yet, in His own Being, He is dwelling in light unapproachable.

H.C. Is there not added lustre to the glory on account of the vessel from which it proceeds?

G.R.C. Quite so. It is in the light of all this, as well as what he said in chapter 2, that Paul says "I, the prisoner in the Lord, exhort you therefore to walk worthy of the calling wherewith ye have been called". What a lever this chapter affords, the service of God in holy splendour in the heavenly sanctuary. We are to walk worthy of the calling. We are not to have garments for the service differing from those we wear during the week. We are to walk here as those who belong to the heavenly sanctuary, with all lowliness and meekness. The more we know of the height of our calling, the more lowly we shall be, and the more meek, and the more longsuffering. And as rooted and founded in love, we shall know how to bear with one another in love, and use diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace. Now the main thoughts in mind in chapter 4 are the two unities mentioned. The first one we are to use diligence to keep, because if anything comes in to disturb the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace, there will no longer be unison in praise. But then the other unity is what we are arriving at through the means of the work of the ministry. We are arriving "at the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ". The fact that we are moving

on to the second unity, and cannot say yet that we have arrived at it, makes the earlier one essential, the earlier diligence essential. We are all moving on, we are learning; some of us are slow, some may err in carrying one feature too far. But we are moving on to the unity of the faith, and the gifts from an ascended Christ are helping us. Meantime we are to use "diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace".

J.T.Jr. There is such a thing as that, "the unity of the Spirit".

G.R.C. It is an existing thing.

J.T.Jr. A wonderful thing!

E.C.M. Is the unity of the Godhead brought in here as the basis of this wonderful unity, "one Spirit, one Lord, one God and Father of all who is over all, and through all, and in us all"?

G.R.C. And we have to take account of the fact do we not, that it begins with one body. If we had been writing it we might have put one Spirit first. It shows the importance of the truth of the body, and body feelings.

C.H. As to our way into it, would lowliness refer to our attitude of mind, and meekness to our spirits? I was thinking of matters that have arisen whilst we have been together, as to how we are to deal with matters that occur, and of the scripture in 2 Timothy 2:25, in meekness setting right those who oppose. It is a question of what a man is in his spirit, is it not?

G.R.C. That is very helpful. That word in Timothy is what becomes a bondman of the Lord. We are to be representative of our Master, and so it says "a bondman of the Lord ought not to contend, but be gentle towards all, apt to teach, forbearing, in meekness setting right those who oppose, if God perhaps may sometime give them repentance to acknowledgment of the truth".

C.H. I was thinking of your reference to our need of longsuffering in bearing with one another so that we might all come into this remarkable system, and the working out of it through the gifts. So that we are enlightened and moving forward in the greatest possible unity because the gifts are moving in that direction also.

G.R.C. As the gifts operate, and light comes in from the Man above the heavens, it takes time for adjustment. Light comes in, and we have to remember, if it is true ministry, it comes from the Man who has ascended above all the heavens, so that it will have its way in the end whatever happens. If we do not submit to it we shall be lost to the testimony. None can resist Him. But it comes from Him with a view to our arriving at the unity of the faith, and every fresh accession of recovered light involves a good deal of adjustment before we are all settled, as it were, in the unity of the faith at the new point. Do you see what I mean?

C.H. What would help in that is our using diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit.

G.R.C. That is what I thought. While the adjustments are taking place we are to use diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit.

C.H. What Mr. T. said I think is important, that the unity of the Spirit is here in the presence of that Person, but we come into it by this lowly attitude of mind and spirit.

J.O.S. Is Paul's letter to Philemon a practical illustration of it?

G.R.C. I suppose his letter was a letter of commendation of Onesimus upon his going back to his original locality. Of course he was not converted when he was there previously. So far as I can see it was addressed to the particular meeting in Colosse that he belonged to. There was divine wisdom in that. If Paul had addressed it simply to the saints

meeting in Colosse, and it had been read out in a city meeting in the first instance, it would not have been the wisest thing, as I see it, because there was such a delicate personal matter between Onesimus and Philemon. So Paul addresses the letter to Philemon and to the assembly in his house. It indicates Paul's wisdom and his diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit. I think Acts 15 is one of the most outstanding examples of diligence in keeping the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace. Paul had received his ministry from the Man above the heavens, and nothing at Jerusalem could alter it. To him those who were conspicuous, he says, communicated nothing. Galatians 2:6. But what grace it was on his part, in order to keep the unity of the Spirit, to journey to Jerusalem with others from Antioch, to sit down with the brethren, not taking a prominent place but speaking about what God was doing among the nations, and to make way for Peter and James to make the pronouncements in the assembly. This was the very best thing that could have happened, for who could have carried the confidence of the brethren at Jerusalem like Peter and James? And so the unity of the Spirit was preserved in the uniting bond of peace.

J.M. Does the thought of peace, "keeping the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace", take our minds back to chapter 2: 15, "that he might form the two in himself into one new man, making peace"?

C.H. And whilst the inmost circle is held in the power of the Spirit, do you think the second concentric circle has a very direct bearing on the present situation, and on the subject matter of these meetings?

G.R.C. Very much so, "one Lord, one faith, one baptism". You are thinking that matters exercising us really have relation to that?

C.H. Yes, and one Lord and one faith.

J.R.H. Would the second verse bring into view all that is available for our help in maintaining unity in current exercises?

G.R.C. It is the manner and spirit in which we can take things up with one another, in that true oversight and affectionate pastoral care which should be in constant exercise in every locality. If it is so, many things will never need to come to the assembly.

Ques. Would the reference in Acts 20 to the assembly of God, which He has purchased with the blood of His own, be a great incentive to the elders in their shepherding of the flock?

G.R.C. Yes. And we have to take account of the fact that it says there that the Holy Spirit had set them as overseers in the assembly. Now we have no official elders today either chosen for us, or chosen by ourselves. But the Holy Spirit has not given up His service. He has those morally qualified, and He would lay the responsibility upon them. He has set them in the flock to exercise oversight and pastoral care, which has a great deal to do with the unifying of the saints. The unity of the Spirit is to be kept, and the Spirit has set persons in the flock with that in view. Another thing that we have to keep in mind is that the body here, "there is one body and one Spirit", refers to what is universal. There should not be different standards in different local assemblies.

P.L. You mean that what is binding in assembly judgment in any locality should be respected by brethren universally.

G.R.C. Any assembly judgment dealing with a specific case must be respected by brethren universally. The local assembly has to do with specific cases, and the facts of specific cases.

P.L. I wondered whether you would repeat,

Mr. T., some remarks which you made after the meeting this morning, in regard to the assembly being called in in regard to brethren who are in associations foreign to the light the Lord has given on this matter, and enquiry made as to the particular situation; so that if they are, for the moment, in an inextricable position in divine government, there would be no question of assembly action, but assembly authority and conscience would be brought to bear upon them to help them, when their determination is to get out, but they are for the moment unable so to do.

J.T.Jr. I think that was about what I said. We have found help in bringing the assembly into matters, not for any punitive action, but for help. The assembly is under the Lord and is gathering much light. He is there, and we can expect things to help them as the assembly is brought to bear upon any matter that might be difficult.

G.R.C. Would that lead to assembly prayer of Matthew 18 on their behalf, where the Lord says, "if two of you shall agree"? Those concerned would get the benefit of such a prayer as that?

J.T.Jr. Quite so. Perhaps therefore we should take a view in our assemblies as to what is current, not with a view to anything punitive, but rather to help with any difficult matters. So that we do not settle matters here, principles only can come before us. It is the local assemblies that take up matters, and, under the great Priest, priestly service will be seen.

G.R.C. It seems to me a great advantage that assembly prayers would result; and the Lord says, "it shall come to them from my Father who is in the heavens". Would not that be an immense gain to persons facing difficulties?

J.T.Jr. We have found it so.

A.P.C.L. From that would emerge that what was said in Acts 15, "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and

to us" would be a matter of our bond together in this matter of unity. It would then, be a question of what was in the mind of the Spirit?

F.J.F. Does Mr. T. mean, please, that at the meeting for prayer you would bring the matter before the Lord?

J.T.Jr. I quite agree that that is right, that is the prayer meeting. But further than that, the saints are convened in city character for light and help, and for matters to be discussed, and so the issues can come before the brethren, and named what they are, so that brethren can get light and help through the assembly as convened.

A.P.B. You mean, not the City Reading, but an assembly meeting?

J.T.Jr. Well it might go to that; but there is the Care Meeting, the assembly enters into the care meeting; the assembly enters into every meeting. But the care meeting can go a long way in regard to getting help as to matters, caring for one another.

C.H. I think you added at that time, for I was there, that the priests come into action, and they would discern whether the state was characteristically stubborn or yielding.

J.T.Jr. Well I think so. It is a question really whether you are dealing with will. Whether the issue is the point, or whether the man's will is active.

UNITY IN CONFLICT

Philippians 1:12 - 14, 19, 20, 27 - 30; Philippians 2:1 - 5; Philippians 3:12 - 17; Psalm 20:5; Song of Songs 6:4, 10.

I wish to speak a word, dear brethren, on unity in conflict, and unity of purpose in the pursuit of our heavenly calling. What is in mind in the epistle to the Philippians is unity of a highly practical nature, a unity that would flow out of the unity referred to in Paul's earlier epistles. The references to it are remarkable for in chapter 1: 27 he says, "that ye stand firm in one spirit, with one soul". In a practical way it is difficult to think of more complete unity than that, a company of saints standing firm in one spirit, and with one soul. It would indicate that they were in the truth vitally and unitedly. The fact that it says "one soul" seems to me particularly impressive. The soul is the seat of longings and aspirations, and think of a company of saints with one soul, their very longings, their very aspirations entirely united; no divergency in any way as to what was before them. And this is not the mind of God for one company only; it is the mind of God for all the saints on earth; that every local company should be thus unified. And God also has in mind that there should not be divergence between local companies. His desire is that every local company should be a true expression of the unity of the whole.

In this passage unity is connected with conflict. It is essential, if we are to be available in the conflict, that we should be marked by unity. A house divided against itself cannot stand. We must, if we are truly to be in the conflict, be in the gain of all that has been before us in these days leading up to this remarkable practical epistle. Paul brings himself forward as a soldier. We are all called upon to be good soldiers

of Jesus Christ, and one thing that marks a soldier is that he does not entangle himself with the affairs of this life: the Lord would help us all to get free from entanglements. Let us get free from associations and every kind of entanglement. We each know what it is that is entangling us, and preventing us being one hundred per cent for Christ. A soldier is entirely at the bidding of his commander; if he is a true soldier, there are no reserves at all, and that is what the Lord is looking for -- soldiers with no reserves at all, but wholly at His disposal. And Paul in this, as in other matters, is a great model. He was suffering, he was in prison as a soldier. But he rejoiced. All he was concerned about was the conflict, and the prosperity, therefore, of the glad tidings, and he rejoiced that his circumstances had turned out rather to the furtherance of the glad tidings. One result had been that it had made most of the brethren more bold, they were better soldiers through Paul being in prison, as he says, "Most of the brethren trusting in the Lord through my bonds dare more abundantly to speak the word of God fearlessly". And that is what is needed, beloved brethren; what is needed in a soldier is boldness. We are to have boldness in many ways. We have boldness to enter the holy of holies, to go in to God; but we also are to have boldness in coming out, like Paul. He used boldness in coming out; he did not put a veil on his face. 2 Corinthians 3:12, 13. Sometimes we put a veil on our faces to escape reproach. We may not like the radiancy to be seen in us, the radiancy of the glad tidings of the glory of the Christ who is the image of God, and so we may put a veil on our faces. Associations and entanglements have the effect of veiling our faces. They give us a status among men. God may prosper a man in business. But let not such a one permit his business prosperity to become a veil.

Paul said, if our gospel is veiled it is veiled in those

that are lost. If his gospel failed to affect souls it was not because there was a veil on his face. He was a true soldier, not seeking to escape reproach in any way. He was unreservedly for Christ every day of the week, and in every circumstance even in prison. And so, as a true soldier, he asks for their prayers. Conflict is not an easy matter, we need prayers, we need to pray for one another continually. He says, "through your supplication and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ". Now that is available for every soldier, the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, the Man of the gospels, the great Warrior, the glorious Man who, here in humiliation, knew what to do in each circumstance, just how to meet it, and how did He meet it? With the word of God. He spoke the word of God fearlessly in every circumstance. That was Jesus! Who could compare with Him as a warrior? He went through every form of conflict until, finally, it became a matter of fighting a battle which He alone could fight. He fought the fight alone; there was no one who could be with Him in it. Our conflict is a very minor one compared with His, there really is no comparison, and yet we are privileged to be in the conflict, and should be in it, we are needed in it. But think of Calvary, what a battlefield, and how He confounded the enemy! The enemy could never foresee that, when he had done his worst, and had seduced and led men into committing a sin which could not be passed by, the crucifixion of God's Son, so that judgment must fall at that moment, the holy Sufferer would then take the guilt upon Himself. The enemy was completely confounded; he does not understand love and did not know what love would do. Judgment had to fall then, but the victory was won because Jesus took the guilt upon Himself. So we can rightly extol Him as the great Warrior, the Captain of our salvation. Our part is to follow Him in the conflict by carrying the

glad tidings, and, as I understand it, the glad tidings in this epistle embraces the whole truth of God, linking on with Ephesians 6:19, 20, where Paul asks them to pray for him that utterance might be given to him in the opening of his mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the glad tidings, for which he was an ambassador bound with a chain.

And so we have Paul as a great example of a warrior, a great model, and he speaks about his earnest expectation and hope that in nothing he should be ashamed. There is nothing, I suppose, that we are more in danger of than being ashamed of the gospel because of the reproach that attaches to it. In days of outward weakness and the breakdown of the church publicly, there is a special danger of being ashamed. Paul was in prison. The enemy would, if he could, have crushed his spirit so that he would be ashamed, but he says, "that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but in all boldness". It is a question of boldness. He wanted to be maintained in boldness till the end. "But in all boldness, as always, now also Christ shall be magnified in my body whether by life or by death". He wanted his body to be radiant to the end, the radiancy of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ, radiating through his body, and thus Christ magnified in his body, till the end. It is for this great purpose that we need to be free from all entanglements. They were standing firm in one spirit with one soul, labouring together in the same conflict with the faith of the glad tidings. If the spirit and soul are right, the body will be right, it will radiate the light of God. The Philippians were united in this, and we, ourselves, should not be isolated soldiers. What is the good of an isolated soldier? He is some good. Paul was alone at the end, but the Lord stood with him and gave him power, that through him the proclamation might be fully made. But, generally speaking, a soldier does

not stand alone, and the idea here is that we should be united -- united in the service of God, making one voice to be heard in His praise, and now united as coming out in the testimony in one spirit with one soul. Thus the bodies of the whole company will be available. What a wonderful thing to be free from every entanglement, and wholly available in the testimony! And mark you, they were in the real conflict, the Ephesian conflict, the same conflict as Paul, as he says in verse 30, "having the same conflict which ye have seen in me, and now hear of in me". How honoured this company was to be in the same conflict with Paul. The Thessalonians, though they were young in the truth were unified, and Paul says, "the word of the Lord sounded out from you". How the enemy would like to spoil that. But it is to develop, so that we are found in the same conflict as the conflict of Ephesians 6. It says at Ephesus "thus with might the word of the Lord increased and prevailed", Acts 19:20.

That brings me to another point. There is defensive conflict. There is both defence and attack. He speaks here of the defence and confirmation of the gospel. An army must defend its base. We cannot afford to do other than have sentries on duty, because, though our enemy is a defeated one, Christ has annulled him, yet he is still very active, and he is not on the defensive all the time, he attacks, therefore we must never overlook the base. The Levites were to encamp around the tabernacle, and their service, as the note says, involves labour, conflict, suffering. And so there is defensive warfare, Satan attacks, as at Corinth; and the point is, how are we to meet it? Paul is the great model, Christ is the supreme model; and in that epistle, which is referred to as the Lord's commandment, Paul says, "be imitators of me as I also am of Christ". Now that is part of the Lord's commandment, so that we have to learn to meet

things as Paul met them. If the enemy makes a Corinthian attack, we have Paul's example as to how to meet it. He sends Titus, he sends Timothy. He waits a long time before he goes himself, although he knew, on that account, he would be charged with weakness and vacillation. He was a good soldier, he knew what strategy to employ, what tactics, and we are to be imitators of him. A good soldier wins the battle with as few casualties as possible. His master will not commend him if in seeking to reach his objective, he loses an army. David could lead out and lead in.

So we need to understand Paul's tactics, and to be imitators of him as he was of Christ. His aim at Corinth was to secure the rights of Christ and the rights of God completely in that locality, but with as few casualties as possible. As I say, he would be charged with vacillation, charged with weakness. Grace is not synonymous with weakness. Grace is the reigning principle of the dispensation. Mr. Darby wrote a tract, "Separation from evil God's principle of unity", a primary matter. But things cannot rest only on what is negative. And so he wrote again, "Grace, the power of unity and of gathering". Grace is the power of it. A negative in itself, though thoroughly essential, would not hold us. Grace is the power of unity and gathering. And so we are to learn from Paul.

As regards the Galatian attack, he said he would deal with the troubler, who should bear the guilt of it; but in true maternal affections he travailed again in birth that Christ might be formed in the saints. In Colossians, where the danger was an attack through the Philistine mind, he is found combating in prayer. He had never seen them, maybe never did see them, but he agonised in prayer for them. If we cannot do anything else we can do that; it is part of a soldier's duty. Epaphras took character from

him, combating always for them in prayer, that they might stand perfect and complete in all the will of God. The combat had in view the defeat of the Philistine element, so that they might be united together in love unto the full assurance of understanding, to the full knowledge of the mystery of God, in which are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. When we come to this epistle, we find him weeping. He had wept when he wrote the letter to Corinth. You say, that does not sound like a soldier. But a Christian soldier weeps; would to God we did it more! He tells the Philippians, even weeping, that those were enemies of the cross of Christ who minded earthly things. So there has to be the defensive warfare, because the enemy is on the attack, and there has to be vigilance. Sentry duty can never be given up.

But then we are to go over to the attack. In my early days it was often said that the conflict in Ephesians was only defensive, and it was a revelation to me when beloved J.T. said that the sword of the Spirit is an aggressive weapon. We can go over to the attack. An army never gets on very well when it is simply on the defensive. The object of a general is always to go over to the attack. What hope is there of victory otherwise? And the only weapon we need is the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Who wielded it like Paul? Think of what went down before him! His conflict, as we see it in the Acts of the Apostles, was aggressive. There was the defensive. He writes letters to deal with the way the enemy had got in. He looked after the base, the local companies. But he also went over to the attack, and while he was on the line of attack in the fullest sense at Ephesus, he went through all the sorrow about Corinth. But it did not stop him in the attack; he could defend and attack at the same time. He was defending the position at Corinth, dealing with the

enemy's inroads there, and at the same time going forward at Ephesus. And in writing to the Corinthians, he speaks of Ephesus, saying, "a great door is opened to me, and effectual, and the adversaries many". He was laying about him with the sword of the Spirit, and with might the word of the Lord increased and prevailed. That was attack, the word prevailed, it brought everything down. "Great is Artemis of the Ephesians", but the idolatrous power was overthrown. In the Jezebel system, the idolatrous power is revived in worse form. The virgin Mary has been made to replace Artemis. This terrible power will be destroyed by God's judgment; but it is to be brought down morally through the testimony of the saints now. We are not to stand by and do nothing. We are to go over to the attack in order to deliver our brethren captive in the systems. Are we going to rest, how can we rest, while any of our brethren are in captivity? I am not suggesting we shall ever get them all out, but I am suggesting that we should be more militant. I have already referred to chapter 1: 14, "that most of the brethren, trusting in the Lord through my bonds, dare more abundantly to speak the word of God fearlessly". That was attack. They were speaking the word of God fearlessly. I believe, dear brethren, though no one is more weak than myself in these matters, that the time has come when we should go over to the attack.

But we must get things right inside, we must meet the inroads of the enemy and see that the base is sound, and then we can go forward, go over to the attack at the close of the dispensation. John the baptist was a burning and shining lamp. The attack involves the shining of the light. We are not up against small powers. Our struggle is not against blood and flesh, we are out to save men and to save the brethren. But we need to be aware of what we are up against; principalities and authorities, the

universal lords of this darkness. Do not let us be afraid of them! Do not let us be ashamed of the glad tidings! The enemy has been defeated at the cross, and he knows it. Our conflict is simply a matter of letting the light shine; wielding the sword of the Spirit, the word of God, which brings light into men's souls. That is all we have to do; the great Captain of our salvation has done everything else. We are to bring the light of God, by the sword of the Spirit, into the minds of the saints and into the minds of men, so that the word of God governs them, so that they are freed from the enemy's power. Therefore our concern should be that everything within is right. It is said of that early company, from whom sounded out the word of the Lord, that they became imitators of the assemblies which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. That is what is right. The epistle to the Corinthians is written to the assembly of God in Corinth, and to all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both theirs and ours. It is the will and pleasure of God that He should be rightly represented in His assembly in every locality; that there should not be divergence, but that local assemblies should act alike, saying the same thing, thinking the same thing.

In connection with the conflict I want to say a word about banners, because every army has its banners. In Psalm 60:4 it speaks of God giving a banner to them that fear Him that it may be displayed because of the truth. But in the psalm read it says, "we will triumph in thy salvation, and in the name of our God will we set up our banners". I believe this is involved in the glad tidings as set out in Philippians. It involves the whole truth of God, and in His name we are privileged to set up our banners. It is not a question of what we call a popular gospel, but the whole truth, we are standing in conflict for the whole truth, and we should not be ashamed to speak about

it, as opportunity is afforded. Think of the banner of 2 Timothy, "Let everyone that names the name of the Lord withdraw from iniquity". We are not to be ashamed to speak about that to fellow-believers we may meet. It is an integral part of the testimony at the present time. And think of the positive banners, not only the gospel of our salvation, but also the truth of the one new man, of the one body, of the heavenly citizenship, of the habitation of God in the Spirit. Why do we not speak of these things as we have opportunity? How can souls get deliverance if we are silent? If we are in the gain of these things we shall be able to speak of them. They become our banners when we are in the gain of them. If people question us, and things are right, we can say, 'Come and see'. We are not to let statements pass unchallenged when people say to us, I go to this or that Church. We should surely say at once, There is no such thing. Scripture only knows of one church. Why not raise our banner? These are not churches, they are human organisations. They have no right to use the name Church. Scripture speaks of one church only. Why do we not say these things? Why do we not stand for the truth? Whoever it may be, stand for the church of the Bible, the only church there is. So in the name of our God will we set up our banners. In all these matters one feels that the Lord would have us, in a right way, to go over to the attack and not to keep silence about the great truths that have been recovered.

The reference to the banners in the Song of Songs confirms this. If we are recovered to first love, bridal affection for Christ, the banners will be in full display. It is a magnificent view of the assembly, the church militant. "Comely as Jerusalem", it supposes things are right within, but, in the conflict, "Terrible as troops with banners". First love for Christ would bring us out like this. And then it says, "Who is

she that looketh forth as the dawn, fair as the moon, clear as the sun?" This again supposes things are right within. If we get things right within, then with what boldness we can go forth, "Terrible as troops with banners". The fact is, if we were in the power of these things no one could withstand us. In the case of Stephen no one could withstand the wisdom and the Spirit with which he spoke. He wielded the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God.

Following on the idea of conflict in Philippians he goes on immediately to say, "If then there be any comfort in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and compassions, fulfil my joy, that ye may think the same thing, having the same love, joined in soul, thinking one thing". Now I would like to point out that the noun "mind" and the verb "think" in this epistle, are (I believe without exception) the words for "bent of mind". There are two words used for "mind" in the New Testament. One is the thinking faculty, as "We have the mind of Christ". Through the gift of the Spirit we are able to think the thoughts of Christ, and to think the thoughts of God, which is a marvellous thing. This would lead us to be perfectly united in the same mind, the thinking faculty. But the bent of mind is another thing. I may have much intelligence as to the thoughts of God, and yet my bent of mind be on other things. "As many therefore as are perfect, let us be thus minded", Paul says; and again, "if anyone be otherwise minded"; it is the bent of mind. The line of unity in Philippians supposes that we are united in the bent of our minds, that the very bent of our minds is one. And we shall never be fully successful in the conflict unless that is so, we shall be undermined in our capacity as soldiers. So he goes on to say, "having the same love, joined in soul, thinking (that is this word for bent of mind) one thing". And

then he says, "Let this mind (that is the bent of mind) be in you which was also in Christ Jesus" -- the mind to go down. We are of no use in the conflict if we have not the mind to go down. But then in chapter 3 there is correspondingly the mind to pursue the calling of God. And Paul says, "But one thing", Philippians 3:13. Can we say that we are unified as having the bent of our minds on one thing? Mr. Darby said, a distracted mind is the bane of a Christian. "A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways". That is where our weakness lies -- one eye on the things of heaven and one eye on the things of earth. But here the apostle is exhorting that the bent of mind of the whole company be on one thing, thinking one thing, chapter 2: 2. And what is the one thing? There is the mind to go down in chapter 2, but in chapter 3 the pursuit of one thing, the only thing that is worth pursuing. Paul was not only a soldier but an athlete. A soldier does not entangle himself and an athlete takes on no weights. And here is the runner; he says, "not that I have already obtained the prize, or am already perfected, but I pursue". What we need is unity in pursuit, the bent of our minds being one. How one would love to see this! What a triumph it would be at the close of the dispensation, if all the saints walking together had got one bent of mind, pursuing one thing! We would be good soldiers then, good churchmen, free in the service of God. Paul is again the great example "not that I have already obtained the prize, or am already perfected, but I pursue, if also I may get possession of it". What a prize! The calling on high of God. Who would not go in for this prize? How do earthly prizes compare? You go in for this profession and that, this business and that, you have got a prize before you, you may get something, but what a delusive prize! You are never sure you will get it at all, and, if you get it, you will not hold it for

long. Let us go in for this heavenly prize. "I pursue", Paul says. He was a man of one purpose in life, Christ his object, Christ his motive, Christ his prize. May the Lord help us to be on this line. "One thing, forgetting the things behind, and stretching out to the things before, I pursue". Some of us are getting old, we have not much more time. Let us then get on with the pursuit, the one thing. Let us get rid of other objectives. The calling on high of God is so great that to be double-minded is an insult to the God who has called us. "As many therefore as are perfect, let us be thus minded", chapter 3: 15. Let us be perfect in this sense, perfect as to object and pursuit. "And if ye are any otherwise minded, this also God shall reveal to you". If anyone of us has had a double objective God would reveal to us tonight that His mind and will is that we should have one objective. Everything is to be subservient to the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus. The true prize is to be before us.

And then he says, "whereto we have attained, let us walk in the same steps ... Be imitators all together of me, brethren". Let us get our eyes off other men; let us, as he says, fix our eyes on those walking thus. We so tend to fix our eyes on those who are lowering the standard; and thus we get entangled in earthly things. Let us fix our eyes on Paul, and be imitators all together of him. So we shall be true soldiers, and true runners in this great race to gain the prize.

London, July 16th, 1959.