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FIRST READING

Revelation 1:1 - 20; Revelation 2:1 - 4.

G.R.C. The thought in mind in these readings is to consider the ways in which John saw the Lord Jesus in the book of Revelation. It says in chapter 1:7, "Behold, he comes with the clouds, and every eye shall see him"; but, meantime, John saw Him in varied glories, and he put on record, "all things that he saw" (verse 2), in order that we might be affected by these presentations of the Lord with a view to our recovery to first love.

It is an impressive fact that the whole book is addressed to the assemblies. The Lord Himself says. "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify these things to you in the assemblies", chapter 22:16. That does not refer only to the first three chapters, but to the whole of the book; and one's impression is that the distinctive ways in which the Lord is seen are all needed if our souls are to be so affected that we are recovered to first love. The book closes with recovery to first love, "The Spirit and the bride say, Come". The bride is there in line with the Spirit as having apprehended the various ways in which her Beloved has presented Himself. And then the book closes with a word from the bondman. It is essential that we should be individually recovered to bondmanship if there is to be corporately the true bridal response to Christ. Thus the book closes with the bondman saying, "Amen; come, Lord Jesus". Nothing he could desire could compare with the coming of his Lord.

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In chapter 1 the great presentation of Christ is in verses 13 - 16; but then He is also presented in verse 1 as Jesus Christ, the recipient of the revelation which God gave to Him; in verse 5 as, "the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth ... who loves us, and has washed us from our sins in his blood, and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father"; in verse 7 as coming, "with the clouds, and every eye shall see him"; and in verse 8 we read, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, he who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty". It is God speaking, yet there seems to be no doubt that the actual Speaker is the Son. That verse is an example of the way John indefinably blends God and Christ in some of his statements.

Ques. Is that to preserve us as to the oneness of the Deity?

G.R.C. I think so.

Ques. Would you say that there is any significance in that Paul's first church letter deals with bondman service -- "to serve a living and true God", 1 Thessalonians 1:9? That word 'serve' is bondman service.

G.R.C. So we have to take account of verse 1, "Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to shew to his bondmen what must shortly take place; and he signified it, sending by his angel, to his bondman John". It is a fundamental matter that we should gladly accept the place of bondmanship; in fact, one would judge that there is no overcoming apart from it, for at the close of each of the addresses to the assemblies, He says, "He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies". The great feature of the Hebrew bondman was that he had

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an ear, and his ear was bored to the doorpost; and in Psalm 40 it says, "Ears hast thou prepared" (or 'digged') "me". So I do not think that an overcomer exists apart from one who recognises himself as the slave of Jesus Christ.

Ques. Has it to do with the ability to receive divine communications and spiritual impressions?

G.R.C. I think so. The Hebrew bondman's ear would carry the mark of his bondmanship, and would indicate what he had committed himself to in love. Applying this to ourselves, we should be marked off in this world as those entirely available for the command of our Lord and Master. Of course the relationship of sonship is always there. The Lord Himself says, "... that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father has commanded me, thus I do", John 14:31. The proof of His love for the Father was in His bondmanship, for as the Father commanded Him so He did: His ear was bored in that sense.

Ques. Is an example seen in Simeon in Luke's gospel? Simeon means hearing, and he says, "Lord, now thou lettest thy bondman go, according to thy word, in peace", Luke 2:29.

G.R.C. That is an interesting allusion. The man who has the ear to hear what the Spirit is saying to the assemblies is the man who is committed in bondmanship to the Lord. His ear, in principle, has been bored, and that would be a public witness to his bondmanship. The Lord says as to Himself, "... that the world may know that I love the Father". How was the world to know, except by the path of devotion the Lord was on? The first reference to responsive love in scripture is the love of the Hebrew bondman.

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You have a father's love to a son in Abraham, and Isaac's love to Rebecca; but on the line of response, you have in the Hebrew bondman, "I love my master, my wife, and my children, I will not go free". The Lord was here as the perfect expression of that, but the ear bored means that the world knows something about it. The Lord was here in the path of bondmanship, though He were Son.

Rem. In Deuteronomy 15:16, where the language is a little different, it says, "because he loveth thee and thy house". This also leaves the door open for the handmaid (verse 17).

G.R.C. Deuteronomy shows more especially the way we come into it.

Ques. Does not the understanding of the book depend upon bondmanship? The revelation is specifically to, "his bondman", so that the difficulty in understanding has to be traced to failure to take up bondmanship?

G.R.C. The bondman is the only trustworthy person, and is therefore the only person to whom God will commit His secrets. Jesus Christ is the great pattern for us; it is the "Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him" -- given to Him as a glorified Man, the One proved to be so worthy of divine confidence.

Rem. The Lord says, "He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me", John 14:21. He manifests Himself to such.

Ques. Does the idea of purchase come into bondmanship? In Exodus 21 it says, "If thou buy a Hebrew bondman".

G.R.C. It does as regards ourselves. We could not apply that part of the type to the Lord Jesus; but, as

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to ourselves, it says twice over, "Ye have been bought with a price". Paul closes 1 Corinthians 6 by saying, "Do ye not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have of God; and ye are not your own? for ye have been bought with a price: glorify now then God in your body"; and in chapter 7:23 he says, "Ye have been bought with a price; do not be the bondmen of men".

Ques. Is not Joseph the first person to be called a Hebrew bondman? And did he not stand before Pharaoh as a bondman? And did not Pharaoh say, "Since God has made all this known to thee, there is none so discreet and wise as thou. Thou shalt be over my house", Genesis 41:39 - 40? He had been an initiated person, even in the prison. He had made known the dreams to the cupbearer and the baker, and comes forward as such a person; and he is given a responsible place in the administration of affairs.

G.R.C. So John, in captivity as a true bondman, is let into divine secrets which run on to our day and on to the end, and he is to pass these things on. They are for all the bondmen.

Rem. In the beginning and the end of the book the Lord says, "the time is near". The saints should have minds and hearts open to the glories of Christ in view of the urgency of the moment.

G.R.C. We need to understand these presentations of Christ in order to be true bondmen, and in order to be marked corporately by the features of the bride.

Rem. So the glory of the Person would emphasise His words to us? Power is given to the communications on account of the One who utters them.

G.R.C. If we apprehend His glory as seen in this chapter (verses 13 - 16), and in the later chapters of

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the book; we shall not regard ourselves as even worthy to be His slaves -- He is so great. John the baptist said that he was not worthy to stoop down and unloose the thong of His sandals Mark 1:7.

Ques. Paul says, "he appeared to me also", and then he refers to his being, "the least ... who am not fit to be called apostle ...", 1 Corinthians 15:8 - 9; and then he says, "God's grace ... has not been in vain; but I have laboured more abundantly than they all, but not I, but the grace of God which was with me", verse 10. Was that the great effect of this appearing, "to me also", to make such a bondman as Paul?

G.R.C. What a bondman Paul was -- one of the most faithful the Lord has ever had!

Ques. Is friendship the outcome of bondmanship? The Lord says, "I call you no longer bondmen".

G.R.C. That is the point in the verse, "Ye are my friends if ye practise whatever I command you", John 15:14. The bondman is one who does whatever he is commanded, and he is elevated to the place of friend; he is trustworthy -- one to whom the Lord would delight to disclose every secret.

Ques. Do you think that in view of the urgency of the things spoken of, and the knowledge that the Spirit is intent upon affecting the assembly in the closing moments, the full acceptance of bondmanship is an obligation which rests upon each one of us? There may be matters about which we have had reserves. Would not the acceptance of bondmanship settle all things?

G.R.C. "Ye are my friends if ye practise whatever I command you". The bondman does whatever he is commanded. He has no reserves; he does not equivocate when the truth comes to him. Such a

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person is trustworthy and becomes the depository of divine secrets. What a favour is available to us!

Ques. You referred to being bought with a price. Would not that greatly stimulate true bondmanship?

G.R.C. Very much so! Love is the motive seen in the Hebrew bondman; but we have to recognise, as a basic matter, that we have no right to any other position. We are not our own, we have been bought with a price.

Rem. The Lord, being found here as a bondman, was obedient "even unto death". There was no reserve.

Ques. Does the expression, "And made us a kingdom", carry the thought of bondmanship?

G.R.C. Bondmanship is a basic idea in coming into the gain of the kingdom. The word there is, "To him who loves us, and has washed us from our sins in his blood, and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father". I think the force of the word 'kingdom' in that passage is that we are given part in royalty. But then the only persons capable of sustaining the dignity which God puts on us -- the dignity of royalty and priesthood -- are those who are committed to the Lord in bondmanship.

Rem. In Exodus 19 it says, "And now, if ye will hearken to my voice indeed and keep my covenant, then shall ye be my own possession out of all the peoples -- for all the earth is mine -- and ye shall be to me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation".

G.R.C. That bears on what we are saying.

Rem. The Lord is presented as, "Jesus Christ, the faithful witness".

G.R.C. The church has been unfaithful in her witness, but Jesus Christ is the faithful witness, the

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firstborn from the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. In the addresses to the churches the Lord presents Himself finally as, "the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God". I believe the real test of our affection is the measure of our devotedness and faithfulness as witnesses. It involves true royalty. We have been helped as to the priestly side, which is linked more with Philadelphia, but the real test of affection for Christ is committal to Him in the public position.

Ques. After the supper is introduced in 1 Corinthians, all that Paul has to say stands related to the Lord; and he refers drastically to anyone who loves not the Lord (chapter 16:22). Does that indicate how bondmanship stands related to the supper?

G.R.C. It is the point upon which the Corinthians were weak, was it not? There had been no committal to the Lord in bondmanship. That is why he said to them, "ye are not your own, for ye have been bought with a price", 1 Corinthians 6:20. He stresses the name of the Lord and the testimonial side. The Lord says to Laodicea, "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot". The Lord longs for those who are hot. If we are hot, it will become evident in our witness. We shall be like the virgins going out with flaming torches.

Ques. Is it instructive that, as John was in the island called Patmos "for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus", the Lord's day opened up with this great phase of glory?

G.R.C. Very good. The true bondman would be committed to the word of God and the testimony of Jesus, whatever the consequences, would he not?

Ques. Is there not often a weakness on the Lord's

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day because of the lack of bondmanship? It is bondmen who can really appropriate the Lord's day.

Ques. Would the place that John had in the bosom of Jesus bear upon bondmanship?

G.R.C. Very much so! The bosom of Jesus links with the idea of friendship. I believe the idea of friendship, in the divine sense in scripture, involves the bosom friend -- one to whom all the secrets of the bosom can be confided. John is the sample bondman, and thus the sample friend.

Ques. Could we have a little help on, "To him who loves us, and has washed us from our sins in his blood" -- that such a Person should love us and wash us in His blood?

G.R.C. Worship is spontaneous as the glory of the Person who loves us shines before John. We cannot exclude the Lord from the first expression, "him who is, and who was, and who is to come". It refers to God as such -- the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. But then it goes on, "the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth". As His glory comes before John, he is filled with emotion to think that such a Person loves us, and has proved His love in such a way. And the doxology bears witness to John's appreciation of His deity, for he says, "to him be the glory and the might to the ages of ages. Amen". John understood who Jesus is.

Ques. Would you say something as to, "priests to his God and Father"? Why does the Father's name come in there in connection with priests?

G.R.C. Because priests serve in the liberty of sonship. The book is addressed to bondmen, but God calls us sons. The Lord calls us friends and brethren

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too, but God calls us sons.

Ques. Do we get two sides as to Abigail? The first time she saw David she alighted from her ass hastily, and then she speaks of herself as a bondmaid. Then later in the chapter, when he sends for her and communes with her with a view to marriage, she again speaks of herself as a bondmaid who would wash the feet of the servants of her lord. I wondered whether the two sides, glory and love, entered into the matter?

G.R.C. That scripture confirms what has been said as to the link between bondmanship, and bridal and wifely affection. As remarked earlier, this book closes with the bondman saying, "Amen; come, Lord Jesus". The bondman's affections and interests are wholly bound up with his Lord; all he desires is that his Lord should come. Where that feature marks the individuals, you will find, corporately, bridal and wifely response. So Abigail, a type of the assembly, says, "Behold, let thy handmaid be as a bondwoman to wash the feet of the servants of my lord", 1 Samuel 25:41.

Rem. In Luke 15 the bondmen in the Father's house seem to be those who are qualified to handle the best robe.

G.R.C. Very good! It is the bondmen who truly enjoy sonship, and who are thus able to help others into the gain of it.

We must pass on now to the glory of Christ seen later in the chapter. It says in verse 7, "Behold, he comes with the clouds, and every eye shall see him". That is the moment we are looking forward to. When every eye sees the Lord, no one will have an eye for anyone else; He will fill the gaze of the universe. Then

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John sees Him in an extraordinary way -- verse 12, "And I turned back to see the voice which spoke with me; and having turned, I saw seven golden lamps, and in the midst of the seven lamps one like the Son of man, clothed with a garment reaching to the feet, and girt about the breasts with a golden girdle: his head and hair white like white wool, as snow; and his eyes as a flame of fire, and his feet like fine brass, as burning in a furnace; and his voice as the voice of many waters; and having in his right hand seven stars; and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword going forth; and his countenance as the sun shines in its power". It appears evident that John had not seen Him thus hitherto; and I believe the initial necessity, if we are to be recovered to first love, is to see Him like this. We have to note where He is. John does not begin by saying, I saw the Son of man, but, "I saw seven golden lamps". The Lord is actually walking in the midst of the assemblies in this majestic and judicial character at the present time, and some of us have been so blind that we have never yet seen Him thus.

Rem. John turned back to see the voice that spoke.

G.R.C. So that while normally on the Lord's day John would go forward into privilege, here, as in the Spirit, he turns back to see the voice which spoke with him; and he gets a view of the Lord in His majesty, which I think is essential if we are to be recovered to first love. We have to remember that such a Person as this is the Beloved of the assembly.

Rem. Peter, in his first epistle, lays stress upon the priesthood; but when he writes the second he talks about the present truth, and lays stress on the majesty of Christ.

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G.R.C. Very good. We need help as to the majesty of Christ.

Ques. Is it not important, in touching assembly matters, to do so in the consciousness that this glorious Person is walking in the midst of the assemblies, and that everything is under His eye?

G.R.C. Indeed it is. So while the description begins, "One like the Son of man" (wonderful grace) "clothed with a garment reaching to the feet, and girt about at the breasts with a golden girdle", yet verse 14 shows that He is none other than the Ancient of days -- God Himself; "his head and hair white like white wool, as snow": and what follows shows that He is the Judge of all. In Hebrews we are said to have come "to God, judge of all", Hebrews 12:23. But it is to this Person, the Son of man, that judgment is committed. And so we see Him here as the divine Judge, "his eyes as a flame of fire; and his feet like fine brass". Then there is the majesty of His voice, the seven stars seen in His right hand and the sharp two-edged sword going out of His mouth. Finally, "his countenance as the sun shines in its power". Once the sun arises we are no longer occupied with stars. What has happened in the history of the assembly is that the stars, or those who have assumed the place of stars, have become very prominent. But this view of the Lord would put everything in its right place -- "his countenance as the sun shines in its power".

Ques. Would there be any link between this and the line of truth opened up in Malachi, where, in the presence of failure in responsibility, God is seen in His own glory and majesty?

G.R.C. In Malachi it says, "shall the Sun of

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righteousness arise", Malachi 4:2.

Rem. Exactly. God would show His own glory, supremacy and majesty in the presence of the people's failure, calling attention to His own rights and what they were as priests in responsibility.

Ques. What would you say as to the expression, "One like the Son of man"? There seems, in the apocalyptic scriptures, a kind of indefiniteness. Ezekiel speaks of the likeness of the appearance of a man.

G.R.C. Does not the passage, as a whole, stress who He is -- His Person? His manhood is a great reality, and that remains. We are to be impressed with the greatness of His Person.

Ques. You said, a moment ago, that some of us were so blind as not to be able to see the Lord in this setting. I wondered whether the apparent indefiniteness here prevents the logical mind arriving at this, whereas spirituality would enable us to see Him.

G.R.C. The working of the logical, natural mind in recent times has tended to limit the Lord to His manhood. While not doing so doctrinally, it has done so in practice; so that He has not been accorded the honours which are due to Him. The whole of this description -- His breasts, head, hair, eyes, voice, mouth and countenance -- stress His manhood; but the Spirit of God would help us to discern the greatness of the Person who has thus in grace taken on manhood for ever.

Ques. Would it be suitable to say that His manhood, in so far as we are concerned at the moment, is a subservient matter to our apprehending the glory of His Person? Could we apprehend the latter apart from His manhood?

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G.R.C. We could not. He has come into manhood in order to be the effulgence of God's glory, and the expression of His substance. What a glorious Man He is!

Rem. In Psalm 45 we read of the glories of the king, and of His loving righteousness and hating lawlessness. I thought that was in keeping with this judicial attitude.

G.R.C. Quite so. That Psalm, while stressing the beauty and grace of His manhood, goes on to affirm His Deity -- "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever". Of course, there it is the lover delighting in Him; it is a song of the Beloved; and that is what would mark recovery to first love. But there is something solemn about the presentation in Revelation, because He is not viewed as riding prosperously in His majesty, and dealing with enemies as in the Psalm, but as scrutinising the assemblies. He is walking in the midst of the seven golden lamps, girt about at the breasts. His affections are not free; His eyes, as a flame of fire, scrutinise the assemblies; His feet are like fine brass, He is moving to deal with everything contrary to Himself; and out of His mouth a sharp two-edged sword goes forth. Who would not fear in the presence of such an One?

Ques. Does Paul see the Lord like this in 1 Corinthians 10 where he says, "Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?"

G.R.C. I think so. What can we do in the presence of such a Person as this? His eyes, as a flame of fire, look right into the motives of our hearts. He says to Thyatira, "I am he that searches the reins and the hearts". There may be much activity going on -- there was much activity in Thyatira, "thy last works to be more than the first" -- but the One who speaks is the

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One whose eyes are as a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass, and He searches the reins and the hearts. The kidneys are the reins, referring back to the offerings. The Lord is searching the inwards. Much may be done in the way of professed works for God, but the Lord is looking at the inwards -- at what the motives are. Then there is the sharp two-edged sword. How can we face such a Person as this?

Ques. Does this presentation of the Lord show how concerned He is about first love?

G.R.C. Surely. The eyes as a flame of fire look right into the heart. Who would have thought that Ephesus had left her first love? The Lord commends much; "I know thy works and thy labour, and thine endurance, and that thou canst not bear evil men; and thou hast tried them who say that themselves are apostles and are not, and hast found them liars; and endurest, and hast borne for my name's sake, and hast not wearied". Then He says, "but I have against thee that thou hast left thy first love". Who would have known it but the Lord Jesus Himself?

Ques. Is the view of Christ in His majesty essential if things are to be dealt with rightly and suitably in the assembly?

G.R.C. Yes, and I think the final word would specially help us, "his countenance as the sun shines in its power". While we value all other lights from God -- we value Paul, Peter and John -- yet the Lord stands out in His own supreme greatness; "His countenance as the sun shines in its power".

Ques. Does that link with the presentation in Matthew where the Lord's face shines as the sun? I was thinking of that as standing upon the threshold of His instruction as to the assembly.

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G.R.C. It is a remarkable passage, "His face shone as the sun, and his garments became white as the light", and yet, in the presence of His face shining as the sun, a bright cloud over-shadowed them -- bright even in the presence of the sun. It suggests the Father's presence -- the Father's glory. Yet Peter still had men before him. We should value true men; we should value every one who can bring us light as to God; but I believe this manifestation of the Lord would put everyone into his proper place in our minds.

Ques. Would this be seen historically in relation to Jehovah's sudden appearings in the wilderness -- "And Jehovah came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood at the entrance of the tent, and called Aaron and Miriam; and they both came forth", Numbers 12:5? Does He not vindicate His servant -- so meek; "Not so my servant Moses"? Is that the bondman thought? And, at the same time, there is the scrutiny. The Lord will not have His Name, so holy, attached to what is foreign to that Name?

G.R.C. Very helpful.

Ques. If we were more ready for prostration before Christ in the way in which John was prostrate before Him, would we experience more the comfort and strength of the right hand?

G.R.C. I think we ought to become more accustomed to prostration. Here it says, "And when I saw him I fell at his feet as dead". It would be a good thing if we experienced this.

Ques. Are we to take this up locally? The Lord still speaks, and is still to be seen.

G.R.C. The first thing is that if we see Him we shall fall at His feet as dead.

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Ques. Would the reference to John becoming in the Spirit on the Lord's day greatly help him in seeing the Lord in all this glory? What an experience!

G.R.C. Normally the only power we have to see the Lord is in the Spirit; and He is here available, and we should learn to become in the Spirit. It is a thing we need to learn to do. In another setting Paul says, "be filled with the Spirit", Ephesians 5:18. It is our matter; the Spirit is here available; and it is for us to see that we are filled, and that we do become in Spirit.

Ques. Would you say when, and on what occasions, the Lord would present Himself thus to us?

G.R.C. Now, at this very moment! That is what one earnestly desires -- that the Spirit of God might so fill us, and the Lord might so manifest Himself, that we might get this view of Him.

Ques. Is it significant for the individual that the voice comes to John, directing him to write to the seven assemblies; his eye for the moment would be on them. Then he deliberately turns back to see the voice, and gets this wonderful view in the power of which he could speak?

G.R.C. Exactly. My concern is that we might see the Lord like this, and understand who He is. We need to see that the Lord, great and majestic as is the manner of His representation, is walking, in this very character, in the midst of the seven golden lamps. He is amongst us like this; but have we seen Him? Do we realise that the Lord is walking amongst us like this?

Ques. John never leaves the prostrate position. He appears to get his immediate commission as prostrated before the Lord. Is that not a word for us?

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G.R.C. He says, "He laid his right hand upon me"; but there is no word about John rising up. "And when I saw him I fell at his feet as dead; and he laid his right hand upon me, saying, Fear not; I am the first and the last, and the living one". We have to note there that it is not only what John saw, but what the Lord says. We are not simply left to infer who the Lord is from the description, but He Himself says who He is. He says, "I am the first and the last". He is God; though truly Man, He is God; and that is the One who is walking amongst His own, walking in the midst of the seven golden lamps. He is the first and the last, and the living One; and He became dead. That was His own act; just as, "the Word became flesh" (John 1:14) was His own act.

But then He says, "I became dead, and behold, I am living to the ages of ages, and have the keys of death and of hades". Think of the majesty of the Person who is thus walking. If we understand this, what can we do other than prostrate ourselves? We need to get into the habit of prostration before the Lord. Later in the book, the elders prostrate themselves before Him that sits upon the throne (chapter 4), and in chapter 5 they fall down before the Lamb. We need to know more of this falling down before the Lord Jesus in the recognition of Who He is, thus letting the glory of His Person fill our souls. So, while we value every light-bearer -- Paul, Peter and John and every one who has helped us in these last days -- the Lord stands out in His own distinctiveness. You cannot compare any other light-bearer with Him -- "His countenance as the sun shines in its power".

Ques. Whilst the presentation is judicial, does the sun include the thought of grace?

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G.R.C. I think the general thought of grace runs through, even in the first mention, "One like the Son of man". That is, the very first presentation is one which would, as it were, calm the heart, for we have to do with One who is said to be like the Son of man.

Ques. Does the Spirit give more grace to help us face the situation connected with what is judicial? James says, "Does the Spirit which has taken his abode in us desire enviously? But he gives more grace", James 4:5 - 6. John was in the Spirit. Does the Spirit give more grace so that we also might be prepared for what John saw?

G.R.C. Exactly!

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SECOND READING

Revelation 4:1 - 4, 5.

G.R.C. These scriptures present, firstly, the throne and One sitting upon it, and secondly, the Lamb in the midst of the throne. We have been occupied with the Lord Jesus as walking in the midst of the seven golden lamps; but we now see Him in a different setting -- "in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, a Lamb standing, as slain". I believe that this is another essential view of Christ, if we are to be recovered to first love. It is a view which greatly endears Him to our hearts, and brings in an extensive range of His glories -- "The lion which is of the tribe of Juda, the root of David, has overcome so as to open the book, and its seven seals".

We may also notice here that the elders are seen round the throne on twenty-four thrones. They are sitting, clothed with white garments, and on their heads are golden crowns; that is to say, the assembly is viewed as in heaven. It is an important matter to come up to heaven. It says in verse 1, "Come up here". The voice is the voice which was first heard as a trumpet, so that it appears to be the Lord Jesus Himself speaking; and He says to His bondman, "Come up here, and I will shew thee the things which must take place after these things". It is a great thing to get a view of the throne, and to understand the place of the heavenly saints round the throne. It answers in some respects to Paul's ministry in

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Ephesians, where he says that God has raised us up together, and made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus. The twenty-four elders are kings -- they are crowned; and, according to chapter 5:8, they are priests -- "Having each a harp and golden bowls full of incenses, which are the prayers of the saints". So we have this remarkable company of kings and priests around the throne. I only refer to that to show that we are expected to understand the throne, and to be in sympathy with it. Once the Lamb is introduced, every eye is fixed upon Him; He is in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders.

Ques. Would you tell us what the throne suggests?

G.R.C. One thing it suggests is the majesty of God, which I think we need to contemplate. "Now to the King of the ages, the incorruptible, invisible, only God, honour and glory to the ages of ages", 1 Timothy 1:17. His throne is steadfast for ever; and it appears here, as also in certain other scriptures, in a temple setting, which shows how familiar we should be with it. Of course, we understand that it is a throne of grace now -- and a mercy-seat. It is the same throne in Revelation; but viewed there as prepared for judgment, because lightnings and thunders go out of it; but these do not disturb the elders. The elders are in full sympathy with the throne -- completely restful. They are sitting upon thrones, and they have golden crowns. God expects us to understand the throne. We shall soon actually be sitting round it, as crowned, and we shall reign to the ages of ages. (chapter 22: 5).

Ques. Is that an eternal theme?

G.R.C. The throne of God is eternal.

Rem. I often think we limit a good deal of scripture

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of this kind to the millennium, but we need a much wider view.

G.R.C. The millennial throne is a mediatorial one. The Lord says, "They shall sit with me in my throne", chapter 3: 21. And at the end of the millennial reign He delivers up the kingdom to Him who is God and Father. The millennial reign is provisional -- a mediatorial kingdom in which the Lord is vindicated in the scene where He was rejected; thus everything focuses upon Him. But the throne of God, as such, is eternal. It stands here related to the earth, for God is about to assert His rights over the earth; nevertheless the throne of God remains, for in chapter 21, in the eternal state, it speaks of Him that sat on the throne, and Who said, "Behold, I make all things new".

Rem. Psalm 45 says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever".

G.R.C. I would judge that that is the millennial throne of Christ. His Deity will be recognised. We can say, "for ever and ever", because He delivers up the kingdom: it does not come to an end as other kingdoms do. It merges into what is greater -- the eternal kingdom of God. I think, therefore, that the throne in Revelation 4 is a more absolute idea than in Psalm 45.

Rem. It is connected with the ways of God. The twenty-four elders furnish a golden flood of spiritual sequence of mature experience in the ways of God, and include, I suppose, the Old Testament saints?

G.R.C. It seems as though they are to be included. On the other hand we do right to stress the assembly in our days.

Ques. Is the throne brought in to meet the challenge of evil which has come about in God's universe, starting with what is Satanic? These living creatures

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are marked by watchfulness as to what is due to God.

G.R.C. I suppose you would accept that the throne is eternal in character? The throne did not come into being to meet evil conditions, although it asserts its rights when such conditions exist.

Ques. You mean that it would set out the supremacy of God?

G.R.C. Yes. Principalities and authorities existed, I suppose, before man was created. The idea of rule, and the majesty of God, would be known before man was created.

Ques. What about the One who was sitting?

G.R.C. It is interesting that it is put that way. The Person is not defined. It says, "And behold a throne stood in the heaven, and upon the throne one sitting". There are similar references in chapters 20:11 and 21:5.

Ques. Would the first few verses of chapter 4 present to us the throne in its abiding and objective fulness, but in chapter 5 would it be bearing upon circumstances which are judicial in time? Do we not have to distinguish between the throne in its abiding setting, and the bearing of it at any given time?

G.R.C. So I suppose it is right to say that the throne today has the character of the mercy-seat.

Ques. Is that not why in his notes Mr. Darby is anxious to include the thought of the throne in the mercy-seat, and objects to the mercy-seat being classified merely as a place of propitiation?

G.R.C. He says in the note in Romans 3, "I do not think this word can be used for 'a propitiatory sacrifice' or 'propitiation'".

Ques. Do not the ascriptions in chapters 4 and 5 give the relative bearing of the two settings of the

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throne? In chapter 4 it is what is normal, and due to God as God; but in chapter 5 it brings in the fact of the one slain -- "Worthy is the Lamb that has been slain". I was thinking of chapter 4 in its abiding character, and the whole universe bowing before the throne.

G.R.C. I think they are complementary, because chapter 4 ends, "Thou hast created all things, and for thy will they were and they have been created"; but then immediately the book appears. That is to say, if created things are to be secured for God's will there is a book to be opened. Is that so?

Rem. And that brings in the Lamb, and His work and His entitlement.

G.R.C. I suppose the book written within and on the back conveyed the mind and purpose of God as to His creation. He had a purpose before creation, and we know that through the incoming of sin things got out of gear. But there is the book; and how is the will of God ("for thy will they were and they have been created") to be carried through? There was no one found able to open the book, except One. So that the two chapters are closely linked, because what is said in verse 11 of chapter 4 could not prevail but for the Lamb and what He has done.

Rem. He has accomplished the will of God.

G.R.C. Exactly; but then, if we might speak for a moment of the One sitting, it is remarkable the way it is put -- "One sitting". We may say, Who is the One? We know the One in whom God has come into expression, whether in His kingship, or in other ways. The One in whom God is expressed is the Son, but it is left like that "One sitting". The previous chapter ends, "I also have overcome, and have sat down with my Father in his throne". Of course the throne

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has a special character at the present time; but, in view of His own assertion of His enthronement at the end of chapter 3, I think when we come to chapter 4 we can understand why, although it is the throne of God, it says, "One sitting".

Ques. Is there any reason why it says, "Like in appearance to a stone of jasper and a sardius", and ending up with a rainbow?

G.R.C. The shining of the city is said to be a crystal-like jasper stone, so there is a link with the One who sits upon the throne in the likeness. The rainbow, of course, would show that God is true to all His commitments. If the throne is going to act, it will bring about all that God has committed Himself to: He is faithful to every commitment.

Rem. With regard to the one who is sitting upon the throne, J.N.D. suggests that it is the Son in His divine glory.

G.R.C. There is no doubt that it is; but it is interesting the way it is just left here -- One sitting upon it. It is a question of spiritual intelligence. But as to the Lord's own link with the throne, it is manifest, in what He says to the churches, that He is already operating from the throne. He is walking in the midst of the seven golden lamps, but He is already operating from the throne. For instance, He says as to Jezebel, "Behold, I cast her into a bed", Revelation 2:22 -- Who is speaking? The One on the throne -- "and those that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works". That has involved a large section of the history of Europe in modern times; it is an operation of the throne. The Lord is with the Father in His (the Father's) throne, and He is operating. Think of the majesty of a

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Person who can say of Jezebel, "Behold, I cast her into a bed". Think of what the Lord has done in the history of Europe since the Middle Ages! He has cast Jezebel into a bed. Do we thank Him for it? Do we pray about it still? And then He says to Philadelphia, "I have set before thee an opened door, which no one can shut". That would refer, of course, to a spiritually opened door, but we know from the typical history that it also refers to the way He has operated governmentally. Jehovah opened the door for the people of old to return, and the Lord is operating now. He is with the Father in His throne: He can do these things. He has set before us an opened door, and no earthly government can shut it. Then He says to Laodicea, "I rebuke and discipline as many as I love". He is acting from the throne in this. The last two world wars are an example of it. But for these two world wars could we have been kept in the path of the truth? The Lord has operated because He loves His own. So we should understand something of the throne, and its activities at the present time.

Rem. And we are to take account of the One sitting upon the throne, before His worthiness to open the book in chapter 5. We need to grasp the greatness and glory of His Person first.

G.R.C. And is not the Lord concerned that His bondman should see this? It is the One whom he saw in chapter 1, walking in the midst of the seven golden lamps, who says, "Come up here". He would say to everyone of us, I want you to see this. We shall not be equipped for the present testimony unless we do see the throne, and the One sitting on it. And then we see round the throne twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones twenty-four elders. I believe it is essential

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for recovery to first love that we should see all this.

Rem. In chapter 22 the throne is said to be, "of God and of the Lamb". The Lamb is linked with God in possession of the throne.

G.R.C. It is the throne of God and of the Lamb. It is one throne -- not two. God and the Lamb are linked together in connection with the throne in the millennial day; but in relation to the eternal state, according to the early part of chapter 21, the Lamb is not mentioned.

Ques. In chapter 5: 13, it says, "To him that sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb". Would the Lamb have a mediatorial bearing?

G.R.C. I think so. It does not, in the same way, go on into the eternal state; so in chapter 21: 5 you have the Sitter on the throne, but the Lamb is not mentioned. We know who the Sitter on the throne is. It is the throne of God; and we know who the One is who would be seen on the throne. But the idea of the Lamb is left out because the mediatorial kingdom is over.

Ques. Is there a more absolute presentation of the throne in chapter 4:8, "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, who was, and who is, and who is to come", whereas in chapter 5 is the mediatorial position more in mind where it says in verse 13, "To him that sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb"?

G.R.C. I think so. In chapter 5 the Lamb is seen in the midst of the throne, and attention is largely concentrated on the Lamb. We need to see that the throne generally in Revelation is in a temple setting. We ought to understand that, because all saints form the temple. The elders round the throne afford a certain view of the saints, and throughout the centre

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part of the book the assembly is viewed in heaven. So we get later the reference to, "the temple of the tabernacle of witness in heaven", chapter 15:5. The assembly is the temple of the tabernacle of witness. The tabernacle of witness is on earth at the present moment, but soon to be in heaven. So we must not regard the intervening chapters as of secondary importance to us; we need in Spirit to be in heaven, and to see the place we have in heaven while all the great events recorded in the book are taking place.

Rem. In Colossians 2:10 it says, "and ye are complete in him, who is the head of all principality and authority".

G.R.C. That fits us for our place before the Fulness -- we are complete in Him. The temple setting of the throne is important. Isaiah gives us light on it. He saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and His train filled the temple. There is the Sitter on the throne, and we get a similar ascription of praise, "Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory".

Ques. Is not the assembly intended, as being able to take heavenly ground in the power of the Spirit, to give a touch of fulness to all who may historically belong to other families? Whilst Isaiah was greatly disturbed because of his state, these twenty-four elders are restful in the presence of what is portending in this period of judgment.

G.R.C. That is the remarkable thing. The elders as you say, are restful, and are ready at every suitable moment to prostrate themselves and to cast their crowns before the throne. It is a question of being habitually accustomed to prostration. If we understand the temple truly, we shall be accustomed to

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prostration, and our worship will be of this character.

Ques. Does the administration of the throne bear, not so much directly on the assembly, but rather on the glory of God connected with creation?

G.R.C. I think the throne bears very much upon the assembly. The setting of it is in the temple, and the saints of this dispensation form the temple. Later on it says that the throne of God and of the Lamb is in it -- that is, in the city.

Ques. You mean that what reaches out to the universe comes by way of the assembly?

G.R.C. Yes. The elders here have understanding throughout the book as to what is happening. They are in sympathy with the throne, and understand what the throne is doing. Later, the temple of the tabernacle of witness in heaven is filled with smoke. That refers to the saints of our dispensation. When the judgments are about to fall, the temple is filled with smoke, because those who compose it are wholly with God in His judgments.

Ques. And the seven angels proceed from the temple?

G.R.C. Exactly.

Ques. Do you not think that we need expanding in our thoughts as to the place the assembly has in regard of the whole universe? I believe that in presenting the assembly in Colossians and Ephesians the apostle gives it that setting in creation.

G.R.C. That is very interesting. For instance, in Ephesians 3 the principalities and authorities in the heavenlies, even at the present time, are learning from it. Is that what you had in mind?

Rem. Yes, and in Ephesians 1 -- "the things in the heavens and the things upon the earth"; and in Colossians 1

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-- reconciliation extending to the whole universe ultimately; but, "you ... has it reconciled", in view of assembly service in relation to the universe.

G.R.C. So we need to take account of the assembly all through this book. In Revelation 4 the twenty-four elders are round the throne. The Old Testament saints are no doubt included, but we are thinking particularly of the assembly. There were twenty-four courses of the priesthood. These are royal priests. Then as the book proceeds the temple in heaven is referred to a number of times (e.g. chapter 11: 19; 15: 5). Finally, the holy city is seen coming down out of the heaven from God. She comes down out of heaven as having been in heaven all through the period of judgments. We are learning now to be with God in matters, in view of being with Him during that period.

Ques. Does not the description of the mystery of God by Paul, "in which are hid all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge" Colossians 2:3, include the heading up of all God's thoughts?

Rem. We may be restricted in outlook, whereas, as of the assembly, we should have the whole interest of God before us.

G.R.C. I think that is what our brother has in mind, as to all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. We have treasures of wisdom and knowledge which no other family will share with us; but then we also, in that wisdom and knowledge, take in everything connected with every other family. We are to be with God in the whole matter, are we not?

Rem. I referred to the twenty-four elders as including Old Testament saints. The power of the assembly will bring together all that has ever gone before in the ways of God, and give it a fulness and

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heavenly character. All that has been gathered up will abide there in that vessel.

G.R.C. That is very good indeed. It says of the Old Testament saints that they should not be made perfect without us. It needs the assembly to gather up all that past experience, and make it serviceable.

Rem. The assembly has a retrospective outlook, as well as a present one.

G.R.C. Yes. The assembly being there, all the experiences gathered up by the Old Testament saints become available.

Ques. Is there any point in the fact that the bondman becomes happily adjusted to the situation through the service of the elders? In two of John's other writings he refers to himself as an elder, and in one of them he has something to say about the assembly.

G.R.C. John never refers to himself as an apostle. As you say, in this book he is the bondman, and in two of his epistles he is the elder; but could he be an elder without being a bondman?

Ques. Is he not showing us his experiences here as a bondman, and how, in those experiences, he is brought thoroughly into accord with the elders; and then in two other compositions he refers to himself as the elder?

Ques. Could we have more help about the temple, and the features of it which should be prominent in the assembly at the present time? You were saying that the setting of the throne in the temple is one which we should understand; I take it there is a present sense in which the throne is in a temple setting in the assembly?

G.R.C. I think so. As one has said, it has the

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character of the mercy-seat today. Do we not, at the close of the service particularly, arrive at this in the worship of God? Do not His headship, supremacy, majesty and greatness fill our souls?

Ques. They do indeed! Are you suggesting that the temple, really, is connected with the service of God?

G.R.C. Certainly! We must not limit the temple to light. We talk about the temple as the place of enquiry; but it is not only that, it is the place of worship, as it says here, "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty". That is going on day and night in the temple; it never ceases. The worship of God is the great point in the temple; but then another great point -- perhaps the greatest -- is that it is where God speaks to us. He says, as to the mercy-seat, "There will I meet with thee, and will speak with thee", Exodus 25:22. So it is the place where God speaks to us; but the worship of God is going on all the time, and, in that atmosphere, God is free to disclose His deepest secrets -- in the temple.

Ques. Does it mean that in the temple what He is as revealed is appreciated and responded to?

G.R.C. Yes, the temple is the shrine. It is the immediate presence of God in all His grace, love, majesty and might.

Rem. So that the temple has unique place in all that follows in relation to the operations of God: everything proceeds from that setting.

Ques. Is not your thought of the temple verified in chapter 11: 1, "Rise and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship in it"? I was thinking of the worship of God in it.

G.R.C. Exactly, that is the primary thing. Your

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scripture no doubt refers to the earthly temple, but the principle of it is there -- those that worship in it.

Rem. "And in his temple doth every one say, Glory!", Psalm 29:9.

Ques. And that would involve that such are characteristically worshippers?

G.R.C. It is characteristic -- day and night. We are to be in keeping with the four living creatures. J.N.D. says that while no doubt the features symbolised in the four living creatures have marked angelic administration, yet from the time the Lamb comes into view in chapter 5, the elders and the living creatures are brought together, as though they are one company, while angels are seen apart -- an outside company. That is, once the Lamb comes into view, and the redemption of man is accomplished, man takes a place above the angels, relative to the Lamb; and, from that time on, in a special and most outstanding way, what is symbolised in the living creatures marks the heavenly saints. The heavenly saints can carry out those features of the throne -- its executive activities. They are more qualified than angels to do so. The angels are viewed separately in chapter 4; in chapter 5: 8, when the Lamb took the book, "the four living creatures and the four and twenty elders" (they are moving together now) "fell before the Lamb, having each a harp and golden bowls full of incenses, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sing a new song". It is a united company. That is, the living creatures are now identified with the elders, not with the angels.

Rem. And they alone sing the new song.

G.R.C. Then he says in verse 11, "I saw, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and

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the living creatures and the elders". The angels are the outside circle now. Redeemed men, as represented in the elders, are now in the innermost circle; and, as symbolised in the living creatures, are carrying on the executive features of the throne, while the angels form an outer circle.

Rem. That is very interesting and very important.

Ques. Should there be more room made for thoughts connected with the Lamb in our assembly service?

G.R.C. I think if we apprehend Him as the Lamb, it will greatly quicken our affections for Him.

Ques. Do you think the diminutive word for Lamb, used here, suggests what is so engaging and attractive?

G.R.C. I do! I have wondered whether that is the reason for the use of the diminutive. Brethren will know that in the gospel the Lamb of God is the idea of a full-grown lamb; but right through Revelation it is a diminutive expression. The diminutive in scripture is sometimes used to denote special affection; and I believe that the Lamb in Revelation is an object of peculiar affection.

Rem. How much is concentrated in that Person!

Ques. Would you say that the attitude of prostration stands related to first love?

G.R.C. I am sure it does; prostration before the Lamb is a thing to note. In chapter 4:10, the twenty-four elders fall down before Him that sits upon the throne, and cast their crowns before the throne. But in chapter 5:8 the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fall before the Lamb. It is a wonderful sight -- to see this company, the most exalted in the universe, a company taking a place of precedence over

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angels, prostrated before the Lamb. Each has a harp and golden bowls, and they sing a new song; and they can give the reason for things; they are an intelligent company. "Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open its seals; because thou halt been slain, and hast redeemed to God, by thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation, and made them to our God kings and priests; and they shall reign over the earth".

Ques. You speak of all this as future; but you have in mind, I judge, that it is to be characteristic of the assembly at the present time?

G.R.C. How shall we be able to function in the future if we do not learn to do it now?

Rem. This is the time of learning.

G.R.C. So verse 14 -- "And the four living creatures said, Amen; and the elders fell down and did homage".

Ques. Would it be right to connect what you are saying with the administration of the mystery in Ephesians, "That now to the principalities and authorities in the heavenlies might be made known through the assembly the all-various wisdom of God", Ephesians 3:10?

G.R.C. Does it not show that angelic beings -- the principalities and authorities -- already recognise the precedence of the assembly? In Ephesians 2 the saints are viewed as already raised up together and made to sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus; and the fact that angelic beings take account of the assembly now, and learn in the assembly the all-various wisdom of God, must imply that they realise that, although the assembly is not actually yet in her place, there is on earth at the moment a vessel which

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takes precedence over them.

Rem. An administrative body which will be the administrative body eternally! And they proclaim this in glory in the holy city -- in their unjealous contentment to be doorkeepers at the gates of that great vessel.

G.R.C. You are referring to, "at the gate twelve angels", Revelation 21:12? That is very interesting.

Rem. How unjealous they are! They are content to take that lowly service in the holy city. What the angels take up here, they proclaim in coming glory -- their unselfish recognition of the place this glorious vessel has -- in the way they fill out the lowly position of doorkeeping in relation to that vessel!

G.R.C. Now we should think of the Lamb. But I might say, in passing, as to the throne and the temple, that Isaiah got his commission in the temple. He became a true bondman, saying, "Here am I; send me", Isaiah 6:8, showing the importance of the temple from the standpoint of persons being commissioned in service. Their impressions are often gained temple-wise.

Rem. "Now there were ... in the assembly which was there", Acts 13:1.

Rem. The commission of Barnabas and Saul at Antioch confirms what you say.

Ques. Does the Lamb throw light on the whole situation? We have the thought of light in relation to the Lamb in chapter 21 of Revelation, and John was sent to bear witness to the light. He drew attention to the Lamb.

G.R.C. Quite so. And then there is the way he is referred to here. "The lion which is of the tribe of Juda, the root of David, has overcome". I think we

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should consider these expressions. Spiritually we all belong to the tribe of Juda; but He is the Lion of it. Then He is the Root of David. When John looks to see this Lion, he sees, "in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, a Lamb standing, as slain".

Ques. Does the elder's remark to John indicate an understanding of the Person of Christ? John sees Him as a Lamb standing, but the elder speaks of Him as the "lion which is of the tribe of Juda, the root of David".

G.R.C. It is the elder's appreciation, and it should be our appreciation.

Ques. Would you say a word at this point as to the feelings of John? Should we not have feelings about the will of God as to His creation?

G.R.C. I have no doubt that if we feel things to the point of weeping there will be the corresponding appreciation of the Lamb.

Ques. Does not the glory of the Lamb focus upon the opening of the seals of the book?

G.R.C. It says that He has overcome so as to open the book, and its seven seals. The point is, how has He overcome? In a spiritual sense we belong to the tribe of Juda.

Ques. You mean that we are amongst the praising company?

G.R.C. Yes, and the royal company! Juda means praise; but it is the royal tribe, and royalty attaches to the saints.

Ques. I would like to ask about the Lion. Is He one who does not turn aside for any?

G.R.C. Yes. That has marked the Lord, and He has overcome. The great point in this book is overcoming;

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and those who are of the tribe of Juda are characteristically overcomers. It is a great exercise.

Ques. Why are the two ideas put together -- the Lion and the Root of David?

G.R.C. It is a question again of the manhood and the Deity of Christ being placed in juxtaposition, as is so often the case in scripture. The Spirit of God continually guards the truth of His Person. The only one who could be the Lion of that tribe, is the Root -- the Root of David. David did great things, and was lion-like in his courage in meeting Goliath and in other ways; but this One who has come is the Root of David, the One from whom David derived all his strength.

Ques. Does the Root of David involve that all true royalty derives from Christ?

G.R.C. Certainly; all true royalty derives from Him. The idea of royalty is manifest in overcoming. Judah the patriarch prevailed amongst his brethren, and of him was the prince. He prevailed amongst his brethren in Genesis; he thus became entitled, in God's mind, to royalty, because he prevailed. That is an essential feature of royalty according to God. With the word of a king there is power; and a king is one before whom none can rise up. We should all be of the tribe of Juda in that sense. But the Lord is the great Overcomer; He is the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David; and He has overcome. We, of course; have also to overcome things in ourselves. That does not apply to the Lord at all. But He overcame every foe.

Ques. Do we arrive at an understanding of the Lion by way of the appreciation of the slain Lamb?

G.R.C. That is the way He has overcome; and

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that is the way we have to learn. Judah prevailed among his brethren, but he prevailed among them on the principle of love's sacrifice. Now the Lord has overcome in every way, so as to open the book and its seven seals; and He has done so by way of suffering. We see Him standing a Lamb as slain. It requires lion-like courage to be a lamb in the midst of opposition, and to be led as a lamb to the slaughter.

Rem. Although the Lamb is slain, He is said to be standing.

G.R.C. I think it means that He is ready to operate. It is "as slain"; so that His death is freshly before the soul, and freshly before the universe. But He is standing ready to operate as the result of having overcome. He has overcome by way of His sacrificial death.

Ques. Could we have a word about the book, and the seven seals?

G.R.C. I think the book is the book of God's counsels. It may refer here particularly to His counsels as to the earth; yet I think we must look at it as His counsels relative to heaven and earth, for the book ends with a new heaven and a new earth and the whole purpose of God fulfilled. The Lord says in Psalm 40:7, "In the volume of the book it is written of me". It may not be the same book, but I think there is a measure of correspondence. Here was a book; and who could open it? The book in the Psalm may be different; but it was written of Him; and He came, according to the Psalm, to die. He came on a sacrificial mission to be the antitype of all four offerings. What was written of Him in the volume of the book related to the whole will of God being carried through, and it involved His coming on

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a sacrificial mission. Here we see the mission completed. In the Psalm He said, "Behold, I come": here we see the work done, and the Lamb standing as slain; and He opens the book and its seven seals. He carries the whole will of God into effect.

Ques. Are these seals the judgments of God which are about to be shown?

G.R.C. The seals have to be broken in order that what is in the book may become manifest. It needs certain judicial actions to bring it into manifestation. But we need to take account of where the Lamb is -- "In the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders". We have seen the Lord walking in the midst of the seven golden lamps; but here we see Him in a different position.

Ques. Could we speak of this as mystery? The Lamb in the midst of the throne is the key to the great working out of the will of God, but known in the character which only the initiated can understand. You could not think of a Lamb bringing about great results, could you? It is the mighty wisdom of God to present matters thus.

G.R.C. And would we be justified in making an application of it at the present time, if we have matters to deal with which affect the throne? Should we not make room for the Lord to be in our midst -- "In the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures". The four living creatures are the executive side; they represent the executive activities of the throne. The elders are the deliberative side. But whether we are deliberating, or whether we are acting executively, will there be any value in what we do unless the Lord is in our midst as the Lamb? If we apprehend Him in this character, it means that what

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we do will be unimpeachable. No one could impeach the Lamb for what He did! He is about to do things which are judicial; but no one could impeach Him, because of His character. He is a Lamb standing as slain. He Himself has borne all the judgment and all the wrath. If anyone suffers, it will only be because of persistent self-will. The Lamb has done everything on His side to save him; and that is what should be manifest in assembly matters today. Everything which can be done should be done to save a person.

Ques. Would that be in verse 14 by way of application -- "And the four living creatures said, Amen: and the elders fell down and did homage"? Is there confirmation without question of such assembly judgments, and that worshipfully, in the presence of the One to Whom we owe all in reaching them?

G.R.C. If, as applying this, we have made way for the Lamb to stand in the midst, I believe what you say will be true. What will be arrived at in assembly judgment will be such that the only thing which can be said about it is, Amen!

Ques. It would appear that, in making way for the Lamb in this setting, we also make way for the perfect discernment of the Spirit too?

G.R.C. That is very good. You are thinking of the seven eyes?

Rem. Yes. You referred to what is unimpeachable.

G.R.C. Quite so. We might say at the present time, in matters connected with the throne, Where is the power? The One in our midst is a Lamb, and the saints are to bear His character. We have no outward power behind us to enforce things. But then it says, "having seven horns". The Lamb has seven horns;

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there is all the power of God there, though outwardly it would not appear so. And then "seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God" -- full discernment.

Ques. Would there be a link with the way in which Paul in writing to the Corinthians connects His power with the meekness and gentleness of Christ?

G.R.C. That is a very apt scripture! "I beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ".

Ques. Would you say that, "in the midst ... a Lamb standing", would give colour to everything which was done?

G.R.C. That is so. Everything that is done would be unimpeachable.

Ques. Is it significant that at the point where the glory of the Lamb is brought before their vision, and they engage in this new song, there is a direct ascription of praise? It develops into what He has done; but the glory of the Person seems to be before their souls?

G.R.C. So that the priestly element becomes paramount here. When the elders are first presented, it is the kingly view -- sitting on thrones and crowned with golden crowns. But as the Lamb comes into view, and they see the settlement of every moral issue, and God's purpose fully established through Him, the priestly functions become prominent.

Ques. Is overcoming necessary because there are evil powers which have challenged the will and rights of God, and the Lamb has overcome in meeting all those challenges, so that the will of God can go forward? So with the various matters which come up, and have to be dealt with, must we see them in their true character as challenging the rights and

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pleasure of God; and if that is met in the spirit of overcoming, the service of God will go on in a fuller and richer way?

G.R.C. I think that is just the point. Things come up which challenge the rights of the throne, and we in our day are linked with the throne and the Lamb in the midst of the throne. That being so, there is the means of meeting everything according to God; and that will lead to freedom in priestly service. So that the tribe of Juda combines both ideas. It is the royal tribe which overcomes -- the Lion Himself having fundamentally met everything -- and then it is also the tribe of praise, for 'Juda' means 'praise'. One hinges on the other.

Ques. Would you say something about the prayers of the saints?

G.R.C. "Having each a harp and golden bowls full of incenses, which are the prayers of the saints". What is in your mind?

Rem. They are connected with the elders, but they are the prayers of the saints. I was thinking of the general feature of prayer amongst the saints, and how it is cherished by those who are experienced.

G.R.C. It is what they have -- "having each ..." We need to see to it that we have these things. We have each a harp: we have it wherever we go: we do not leave our harps behind. Paul and Silas had their harps with them in prison. And they also had the golden bowls full of incenses. So we are to have these things at all times. In what the Lamb has effected there is the answer to all prayer; but then it leads to song.

Rem. The service of God is enriched by the very cares and exercises of overcoming. The Lord overcame

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because He refused to succumb to any principle in this world; and the saints, as so doing, go through sufferingly to a divine issue of moral questions, and ingather more substance priest-wise for both prayer and praise.

G.R.C. You would say that every conflict yields spoil for God?

Rem. Mr. Darby's hymns, often written in the midst of serious conflict, suggest how the presence of the Lord, known as the Lamb in the midst in our testings, would liberate us far more to bless Him in His own realm.

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THIRD READING

Revelation 12:1 - 11; Revelation 19:6 - 16.

G.R.C. We are considering in these readings the way the Lord is presented in the book of Revelation, it being the mind of God that we should apprehend Him in each of the settings in which He is seen, the whole book being addressed to the assemblies -- "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify these things to you in the assemblies", Revelation 22:16; and the result of it is that there is recovery to first love at the close of the book -- "The Spirit and the bride say, Come", Revelation 22:17. Recovery to first love is brought about through an apprehension of glories, which, it would appear, John himself had not seen before. It was not that John himself needed recovery; but the assembly needed it, and we all need it. We have considered the Lord as presented in chapter 1, and again in chapter 5; and the main subject of consideration in this reading is the male son in chapter 12, caught up to God and to His throne; and the coming forth of Christ in chapter 19, at the head of His armies. One verse in particular shows a link between the passages. In chapter 12: 5 it says, "She brought forth a male son, who shall shepherd all the nations with an iron rod"; and in chapter 19: 11 and in 15 John says, "I saw the heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and one sitting on it, called Faithful and True, and he judges and makes war in righteousness ... And out of his mouth goes a sharp two-edged sword, that with it he might smite the nations; and he shall shepherd them with an

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iron rod". This is a matter of great importance.

The consideration of Christ, as presented in these chapters, will involve seeking help on travail, as seen in the woman, with a view to the male son being brought forth; and also on the marriage of the Lamb, because those who form the wife constitute the armies. We should notice that the setting of both scriptures is one of conflict and warfare, the Lord being finally seen as the great Warrior. The bringing forth of the male son is in a setting of conflict; then there is war in heaven; and then a retrospective view of the present conflict in the celebration in heaven -- "they have overcome him", it says, "by reason of the blood of the Lamb, and by reason of the word of their testimony, and have not loved their life even unto death", Revelation 12:11. It will no doubt apply to others after we have gone, but it is also a retrospective view of the conflict of our dispensation, which has its own character. Then in chapter 19 the warfare is brought to finality. It says in verse 20, as to the beast and the false prophet, "Alive were both cast into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone".

Ques. Do you think, going back to chapters 1 and 4, that the voice as of a trumpet (Revelation 1:10 and Revelation 4:1) has in mind the assembling of all that is faithful to God in relation to this conflict? Is there not somewhat a militant idea in the voice as of a trumpet, as an assembling note for every faithful believer?

G.R.C. So that, while the voice was heard by the bondman, John, you would think that that trumpet voice should sound in the hearts of all the bondmen?

Rem. I would think that in being passed on by John it does not lose that character. It reaches the saints in the character in which he heard it.

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G.R.C. So you think it gives character to the book, as mobilising the bondmen for the conflict?

Rem. That was what I wondered.

Ques. Does John in this book justify the name given to him and his brother by the Lord -- Boanerges, meaning "Sons of thunder", Mark 3:17? Is thunder like heaven asserting its rights to the earth?

G.R.C. Yes. It is remarkable that the one thing which he was not to write was the voice of the seven thunders (Revelation 10:4). Why do you think that was?

Ques. Is there not something inscrutable in all God's ways?

Ques. Does the prominence of heaven connect at all with Deborah's song -- "From heaven was the fight", Judges 5:20?

G.R.C. Quite so. Our passage begins, "A great sign was seen in the heaven". We have heaven's view of the vessel of testimony, the woman, primarily referring to Israel according to God's mind. What thoughts He has as to Israel! -- "a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars". But then she is viewed as being with child, and in travail, and in pain to bring forth, because the great thing in view is the male Son. The woman is portrayed in her glory and dignity according to God's mind and purpose -- not according to the actual state of Israel, of course; but then our attention is focussed upon the Child.

Ques. What is the force of the expression, "a male son"?

G.R.C. Does it not stress the necessity for what is suggested in the male? The Old Testament speaks of the males, both in the offerings and in those who appeared before God. It was not that the women did

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not go up to the feasts, as we know, but the stress was upon the fact that all the males were to go up. Sonship is also stressed -- a male Son. I think the point is the One who is suited to be caught up to God and to His throne. That is, what is in mind is the Priest and the King. It is the Son who is the Priest, as it says in Hebrews 7:28, "A Son perfected for ever". But the stress here is on the official glory of Christ -- His worthiness to fill out the office of Priest and King.

Ques. Is that why Zechariah is privileged to bring that combination forward in history when the remnant was at a low ebb publicly?

G.R.C. Do you mean where he speaks of him being a priest upon his throne Zechariah 6:13?

Ques. Yes. Do you think that the prophetic side of the matter is one thing, but the travailing to bring forth is quite another?

G.R.C. "Caught up to God" is the priest, "and to his throne" is the king; and it is those features, I believe, which the Spirit of God would exercise us about. As we know, while the male Son primarily is Christ, it includes the saints of this dispensation. This is the nearest reference to the rapture in this book. "Her child was caught up to God and to his throne" (verse 5), and in that catching up we have to think not only of Christ going up, but of all who are His -- those whom Paul would speak of as His body.

Ques. Would the fact that the saints of this dispensation are included be confirmed by the word to Thyatira, where it says of him that overcomes, "To him will I give authority over the nations, and he shall shepherd them with an iron rod", Revelation 2:26, 27?

G.R.C. The overcomer is to shepherd the nations with an iron rod. As you say, it confirms that the

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saints are associated with Christ in this matter.

Ques. Is the figure of travail used to emphasize what is actually being formed in the saints at the present time -- as to their understanding of the place that Christ has, and is to occupy? Later the remnant of Israel will begin to see that the One they rejected is the One who belongs to heaven, and has taken His rightful place; and it will affect their testimony.

G.R.C. The travailing to bring forth is a very important matter. While the woman represents Israel, the travail is continued throughout our dispensation in the assembly as the Israel of God -- the Jerusalem above, according to Galatians. Paul travailed again in birth that Christ might be formed in them, Galatians 4:19, and this travail is to go on with a view to the male son being formed in the saints. We see the idea perfectly set out in Christ, but there is to be formation by the Spirit in the saints which gives them ability to be fully for God, at the present time in the testimony, and in the future time in the public position -- to be fully for God in priestly and royal dignity.

Rem. So that there is something definitely arrived at.

Ques. Would this be parallel with John 16? "Again a little while and ye shall see me", verse 16; and then in verse 21 you get the thought that a woman, when she gives birth to a child, "has grief because her hour has come; but when the child is born, she no longer remembers the trouble, on account of the joy that a man has been born into the world". Then the chapter finishes with, "In the world ye have tribulation; but be of good courage: I have overcome the world", verse 33.

G.R.C. That is a good scripture to bring forward.

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That time was the time of travail for the disciples; and, if there is to be any formation of Christ in us, it involves travail. He says, "Again ... ye shall see me". They were to know Christ after the flesh no more, and that involved travail. They were to apprehend Him as a Man born into the world, and that is God's world. We see Him risen and ascended as the Centre of God's world -- the Firstborn from the dead. He is referred to in this book as, "the firstborn from the dead" Revelation 1:5 -- a Man born into the world. The Man who is the Centre of God's world has been caught up to God and to His throne. The first thing is to apprehend Christ in that character; and then, as we take up the exercise, it will lead to formation in our souls.

Ques. Why is it, "her child" here?

G.R.C. It gives credit to the woman and her exercises. It would stress that this cannot be brought about without pain and travail on the part of the woman. So God says it is her child.

Ques. I suppose travail involves hard work and suffering. Is that because it means the displacement of the first man inwardly, in order that what is of Christ might come into full expression?

G.R.C. I think so. John 16 involves that even Christ after the flesh is known no more, and that is a solemn thing to face. Everything connected with man after the flesh is superseded.

Ques. Would it be not only the sinful side of things but the natural order?

G.R.C. Exactly, because with Christ after the flesh there was no sin; but even Christ after the flesh we know no more. The acceptance of this involves travail. It involves the death lesson really -- to pass

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over in our spirits into God's world; so that a Man is born into the world in our apprehension. The male Son is there as viewed in Christ; but then the saints are to be brought into accord with Him, so that all who belong to God's world -- Christ and all who are of Him -- are translated to heaven.

Ques. Do we learn to move from Benoni to Benjamin in that way? It went hard with Rachel; there was deep suffering, but she was encouraged; and out of all that came Benjamin, the son of the right hand.

G.R.C. That is very good. The Lord says in John 16, "ye will be grieved", but then the result is that we apprehend Christ as the Centre of God's world.

Rem. Travail in Romans 8 is linked with the creation, although we also are said to groan. But when the Lord applies the principle in John 16, he says, "Ye ...". From the Romans 8 viewpoint, the idea is in our hearts, and we are waiting conformity to it in sonship. But, in John 16, with the absence of the Lord imminently before the disciples, it was a matter of grief; but He was showing them that, with the incoming of the Spirit, they would have joy in relation to Himself as the Man born into the world.

G.R.C. I think so. And so when it comes to the saints travailing, the idea of the woman enters into it, and it is in a setting of great danger. The dragon stood before the woman, in order that when she brought forth he might devour her child. All is in the presence of the greatest opposition.

Ques. Travail has the thought of propagating love's ideal, has it not?

G.R.C. Exactly.

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Ques. In Psalm 2, Jehovah says, "I have anointed my king, ... Thou art my Son; I this day have begotten thee", Psalm 2:6, 7. It is in answer to the tumultuous raging of the nations. Ought we to be concerned as to the nations, and the need for a male son in connection with what is going on in the earth?

G.R.C. I think that is the bearing of this chapter. It is a question of the Priest and King, and of the saints functioning as a royal priesthood, as formed after Christ; so that we are able to stand here, in royal dignity, and priestly feeling, maintaining the rights of God in testimony, before the highest authorities if necessary. The final thing is, as we noticed, that the child shall shepherd all the nations with an iron rod; and the promise to Thyatira shows our part in that. We are soon to have a part in dealing thus with the nations as a whole. But the present thing is that we bear testimony. So it says in verse 11, referring retrospectively to the present time, "They have overcome him by reason of the blood of the Lamb, and by reason of the word of their testimony". Now that requires the royal priesthood at the present time. It is the royal priesthood who are qualified to wield the sword of the Spirit -- the word of their testimony.

Ques. It says, "Upon her head a crown of twelve stars". Is her travailing in relation to the rights of Christ as represented in the twelve stars?

G.R.C. She is "clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars", so that she is concerned that the complete rights of Christ -- every feature of His authority -- might be held here inviolate in testimony.

Ques. Supreme authority in the sun, and delegated authority in the moon -- what is vested in the

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assembly, do you think?

G.R.C. Quite so. And upon her head a crown of twelve stars. The dragon has ten horns. He never reaches the number twelve; but in divine administration the number twelve is complete.

Ques. What about the four dimensions in Ephesians 3? Is there a suggestion of travail with Paul as he bows his knees to the Father in relation to the saints?

G.R.C. He was in very deep exercise, was he not? One has been thinking of that passage in regard to these readings, desiring that the Father would come into the matter which we are engaged with. The Father would strengthen us, according to the riches of His glory, with might in the inner man, "that the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts", Ephesians 3:16, 17. It is the Father's desire and purpose that the assembly should apprehend Christ, and hold Him in her heart in every feature of His glory.

Rem. It says, "That ye may be fully able to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height; and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge", Ephesians 3:18, 19.

G.R.C. And the love of the Christ runs through this book, does it not? "To him who loves us", it begins; and the final word is, "I Jesus", Revelation 1:5; Revelation 22:16. The Person we have been considering, so infinitely great and glorious, comes to us and says, "I Jesus". It is love which surpasses knowledge!

Ques. The challenge is met on earth by the male Son being born on the earth; but then He is caught up to heaven, remains in heaven for a while; and then, in chapter 19, He comes forth to deal with things on the earth again. Then the saints are formed on the earth, taken up to heaven at the rapture, and come

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out to deal with the earth again. What is the reason for these moves, first on earth, then in heaven, and then on the earth again?

G.R.C. Would not the time of travail and formation and bringing forth be while the saints are on earth? Then, as you say, we are caught up to heaven; certain adjustments take place; the marriage of the Lamb takes place; and then we come forth with Him as the armies. But now is the time for formation.

Ques. Would the thought be that everything must be maintained testimonially in suffering grace here, the ground thus held for the coming Heir until we come forth with Him in glory? It is the same vessel which has maintained His rights as absent, is it not?

G.R.C. Quite so. So she is the bride, the Lamb's wife. Those who form that vessel have overcome in their period of conflict by reason of the blood of the Lamb, and by reason of the word of their testimony, and have not loved their life unto death. There is the present conflict of its own peculiar nature; then, as you say, the saints are caught up out of the sphere of conflict, and then the conflict is handed to others, and takes on a different character, because the dragon is cast down to earth. But the peculiar nature of our conflict is while the dragon is still in heaven, and he is there as the accuser of the brethren. In verse 9 he is given his full name -- "the great dragon ... the ancient serpent, he who is called Devil and Satan, he who deceives" -- but he is cast out; and in verse 10 it says, "the accuser of our brethren has been cast out, who accused them before our God day and night". So it is a day and night matter; the anti-priest is there accusing the brethren day and night; and we are to

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maintain continuous intercession. We are never to be among the accusers of the brethren -- we are on the enemy's side if we are -- and we are to be here in priestly intercession and in royal ability to sustain the testimony.

Ques. Would you say that his manifest exposure comes before all in verse 9 of chapter 12, in his true character publicly; but we are not ignorant of his devices? Is he morally discerned in his movements by those who thus travail?

G.R.C. So that whether as the serpent, or as the Devil, or as Satan, or as the deceiver, we are not ignorant of his devices.

Ques. Paul calls him by different names, does he not?

G.R.C. Quite so. He says, "as the serpent deceived Eve by his craft", 2 Corinthians 11:3. The word "Devil" means accuser; that would link with verse 10, "the accuser of our brethren"; and the word Satan means the adversary.

Ques. Is it remarkable, in the reference which Paul makes to the serpent, and in the original allusion to him, that the travailing sex is before us, and the thought of the serpent is first in this description? But is not Satan more connected in scripture with being peculiarly adverse to sonship; and that is the last description of him here.

G.R.C. And as the Dragon, which is another view, he would devour the male son.

Rem. In Job 2 the sons of God presented themselves, and then Satan presented himself before Jehovah in opposition.

G.R.C. Quite so. And it is clear that the work of the serpent in Genesis resulted in the need of travail.

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The serpent having done his work, if there is to be anything for God henceforth, it can only be through travail. But now, in chapter 19, we should touch briefly on the marriage of the Lamb. Our objective is the Lord coming out later in the chapter; but I thought the marriage of the Lamb would bear on a question raised yesterday afternoon, as to whether the character of praise set out in chapter 5 should enter into our service in the morning meeting. I think it should. We may not use the title "The Lamb". We are free to do so, of course, but it is a symbolic title of the Lord, and we would normally call Him Lord Jesus. But I believe in connection with the cup -- "This cup is the new covenant in my blood", Luke 22:20 -- there is room for a very fervent vocal response to Christ as the One who has redeemed to God by His blood out of every tribe and tongue and kindred and nation. The scope of redemption should be before us; not simply how it affects us, but how it affects God -- that He has redeemed to God by His blood. The whole scope of the matter would lead us to prostration before Him.

Rem. "Redemption's glory shed", the hymn says.

G.R.C. And this passage shows how the wifely side would closely link with that; for the word is, "Let us rejoice and exult, and give him glory; for the marriage of the Lamb is come". This, of course, refers to the public celebration of the marriage after the church is translated, but then Paul's doctrine shows that the union of Christ and the church is to be entered into also at the present time. It is in mystery at present. It is not a mystery in Revelation 19, when the marriage is celebrated; but there is the mystery of Christ and the assembly now -- "Because

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of this a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall be united to his wife ... This mystery is great", Ephesians 5:31, 32. At the present time the union of Christ and the assembly is in mystery; but I am thinking of the moral link between this and chapter 5. Surely, if the Lamb has His place, and we are led into a state of prostration of soul before Him, as we think of the vastness of the scope of what He has effected at such a cost, it is only a short step to wifely relations.

Rem. We really approach the Supper from the suffering angle, because it is deposited in the assembly in the scene of treachery -- "In the night in which he was delivered up", 1 Corinthians 11:23.

G.R.C. So the word is, "I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife", Revelation 21:9; and here, "the marriage of the Lamb is come". How we rejoice to think that He has a wife! How worthy He is to have a wife!

Ques. Does the marriage of the Lamb involve the presentation of the assembly to Christ?

G.R.C. I think it would coincide with that -- "that he might present the assembly to himself", Ephesians 5:27, although each scripture has its own setting, so that the view here is somewhat different. It says here, "His wife has made herself ready"; it is not the Lord's service, as in Ephesians 5, but His wife has made herself ready; and then there is what is given to her, as though God comes into the matter. "It was given to her that she should be clothed in fine linen, bright and pure; for the fine linen is the righteousnesses of the saints". It is a most important thing, even in human affairs, that a wife, who is to be the wife of a very highly-placed man, should be in every way suited to the position; she would need to be concerned about it, as

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to being ready. And, if we see the way the Lord presents Himself in the book of Revelation, the glory and majesty in which He is presented, what a concern there should be!

Ques. Would there be some idea of it in the book of Esther, where it speaks of six months with oil of myrrh, and six months with spices? Esther 2:12.

G.R.C. That is a majestic setting also. Each scripture, of course, has its own setting.

Ques. Would you say a word as to what was granted her? Is that something additional to making herself ready?

G.R.C. The two things seem to be blended, do they not? She has made herself ready; but then what was granted to her was, "that she should be clothed in fine linen, bright and pure; for the fine linen is the righteousnesses of the saints". So that, on the one hand it is the result of the exercises of the saints and their righteousnesses, but then it is given to her to be clothed in it.

Ques. Does not Genesis 24 bear on this? Rebecca took what was given to her; and then finally she took the veil, and covered herself.

G.R.C. Each scripture has its own setting; and there it is largely what the servant did. That passage is one which confirms that the wifely side of things has a present application, because she is led into Sarah's tent. It is the present aspect of the marriage, connected with Sarah's tent -- a provisional position.

In our dispensation the assembly fills out the place which Israel forfeited in rejecting its Messiah. In the eternal setting, the assembly is seen prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; and it does not say there that she has made herself ready. I think we have

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to take each scripture in its own setting; and the one we are now considering stands in its own beauty.

Ques. Does it not become a peculiar challenge to us, as to how much we are allied to this feature of making herself ready?

G.R.C. Proverbs 31 links with that; the testing is to bring out the righteousnesses of saints, is it not?

Rem. Yes. Mr. Darby gave a very short but powerful definition of the word "royalty". He said it was effective power in action; and is that not bound up with making herself ready? Things are done, and they are done efficiently and effectively.

G.R.C. Very good. And that also bears on the armies, because, as to the wife, it says it was given to her that she should be clothed in fine linen, bright and pure; and then, with regard to the armies, in verse 14 it says, "And the armies which are in the heaven followed him upon white horses, clad in white, pure, fine linen". So that the wifely garments are quite suited for military service; we do not need to change our apparel.

Rem. Say a little more about that.

G.R.C. In the Song of Songs the spouse does not need to change her apparel; she is, "Terrible as troops with banners", chapter 6:4.

Rem. And when he describes her appreciatively in detail, in the Song of Songs, it is always in the beauty of her military array, showing what military prowess in the assembly means to the heart of Christ now.

G.R.C. He delights in a militant wife.

Rem. As David in Abigail.

G.R.C. And so this setting of the Lord is one which should engage our affections. It is a marvellous presentation! "I saw the heaven opened, and behold,

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a white horse"; that is, military operations are now in mind; and so the white horse is called attention to first, and the armies follow on white horses. Are we equal to riding on white horses?

Ques. Would this be the result of the exercise of overcoming?

G.R.C. It would. It is the exercise of overcoming which brings about the righteousnesses of the saints, and fits us for riding, in the coming day, upon white horses. But it should mark us in principle now. The Lord is upon a white horse -- it says, "One sitting on it, called Faithful and True, and he judges and makes war in righteousness. And his eyes are a flame of fire, and upon his head many diadems". What a description that is! How it delights the lovers of Christ! No one else is spoken of in such a way -- "Upon his head many diadems, having a name written which no one knows but himself". And so, while He is called "Faithful and True", the first name which comes before us is a name written. It is written, so that we can see the writing, but it is to impress us that there is something there which is beyond us; there is a name written, "which no one knows but himself". And then it says, "He is clothed with a garment dipped in blood, and his name is called ..."; this would be, I suppose, the way He becomes known through experience -- "His name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in the heaven followed him upon white horses, clad in white, pure, fine linen. And out of his mouth goes a sharp two-edged sword, that with it he might smite the nations". And then, in verse 16, it says, "And he has upon his garment, and upon his thigh, a name written" -- this is another name written. "The Word of God" is a

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name by which He is called; but there are two names written, one of which no one knows but Himself, and the other, "A name written, King of kings, and Lord of lords". What a marvellous presentation this is of Christ! Every lover of Christ exults in this.

Rem. What power this would give in suffering here -- the apprehension of the Lord in this way, as King of kings and Lord of lords!

G.R.C. What an honour to be the bondman of such a one!

Ques. One of the features which marked the great warrior Paul, in conflict, was pureness. Would that be purity of motive and association in keeping with Christ's garments according to Mark's gospel?

G.R.C. We would become casualties otherwise, but there is no thought of a casualty in this army.

Ques. Why is the name written on the thigh?

Ques. Is it the strength to support and go through, do you think?

Ques. In Daniel 4:35 it says, "He doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens". Does that refer back to bondmanship in those who have part in it?

G.R.C. It does. The centurion said, as to the army, "I say to this one, Go, and he goes; and to another, Come, and he comes", Matthew 8:9.

Ques. Referring to the cup and the Lord's Supper, is it not significant that in 1 Corinthians 11 it is not recorded that the Lord's blood is poured out for us?

G.R.C. I think that bears on what we have said about chapter 5 of this book. It is left open in Corinthians -- "This cup is the new covenant in my blood" for us to have as wide a view of the glory of the great Redeemer as possible. It is, "My blood", and all that it has laid the basis for. But there is one more point

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in this passage which we ought to refer to. "Out of his mouth goes a sharp two-edged sword". It is the only weapon the Lord uses apparently. And "the sword of the Spirit, which is God's word", is the only weapon we need. Once the word of God in power is brought into the minds of men, the whole world-system will collapse; and every difficulty among believers would collapse, if you could only bring the word of God in power into their minds. And so one great point in our conflict is that we should seek help to be more efficient in the use of the sword of the Spirit, because the conflict is in the minds of men. It is not with armies and navies! The real conflict is in the minds of men; and if you could get men on earth at the present time to be governed truly by the word of God, the conflict would be over.

Rem. In the end of verse 9 it says, "These are the true words of God".

G.R.C. Quite so; then here, "His name is called The Word of God". The Lord Jesus is the very expression of the mind of God; but then from His mouth there is the application of it, a sharp two-edged sword going forth, and that will bring down everything. The word of God in power will bring down every hostile force in this world, in the minds of men, and thus will settle everything. Once the minds of men are governed by the word of God, the conflict is over. That is where we need help at the present time, because Satan is always attacking to get something that is not God's mind into the minds of the saints.

Rem. The only aggressive weapon in the armour in Ephesians is the sword, and it was the Lord's only weapon in the temptation.

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FOURTH READING

Revelation 20:4 - 6; Revelation 11 - 15; Revelation 21:1 - 8.

G.R.C. In chapter 19: 11 it says of the One on the white horse that He judges and makes war in righteousness. It is what we might call judicial warfare. When there is armed opposition, judgment has to take that form; the opposition has to be met in a military way. Verse 19 shows that there will be the greatest force of armed opposition ever assembled -- "I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against him that sat upon the horse, and against his army". All along there has been opposition to the testimony, and we can speak of armed opposition during the present period; not in the sense of physical armaments; but the universal lords of this darkness, the spiritual powers of wickedness in the heavenlies, arm themselves with every conceivable weapon; and they furnish their troops, (that is, men and women on earth who are under their power) with every conceivable weapon, whereby to prevent God having His rights in the minds, consciences and hearts of the saints, and in the minds and consciences of men generally. So that we ourselves are in a period where conflict, and judicial conflict, has to go on; but chapter 19 shows how the matter is brought to finality. It says in verse 20, "And the beast was taken, and the false prophet that was with him ... Alive were both cast into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone; and the rest were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the

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horse, which goes out of his mouth". Based upon that complete victory, and the chaining of Satan in the beginning of chapter 20, and his confinement to the abyss, we have a different kind of judgment. John says, in verse 4, "I saw thrones"; this is sessional judgment. We speak of the sessions when the judges sit. Once armed opposition is over, sessional judgment can be instituted; and we also have part in this at the present time. Conflict concerning the truth may arise in localities, and the time may come when the victory is won; but there may still be sessional judgment required to deal with those responsible for, or involved in, the insurrection. So in verse 4 it says, "I saw thrones; and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them". That does not mean that they were being judged; it means that judgment was put into their hands. They were sitting on thrones, and they were to pronounce the judgment. This may refer primarily to those who follow on after the assembly is translated; they are certainly included, for it speaks of the souls of those beheaded on account of the testimony of Jesus, and on account of the word of God. Evidently such will sit on thrones, and have part in judging; but those we have seen earlier on thrones -- the crowned elders -- represent the saints of our dispensation; and Paul says of these, "Do ye not then know that the saints shall judge the world?" and "Do ye not know that we shall judge angels?", 1 Corinthians 6:2, 3. So according to chapter 20:4 there are thrones, and those who sit on them, and they are there to administer judgment. It says in Daniel 7:22, "the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most high places"; that is, judgment was put into their hands. And it says of such that they

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are priests of God and of Christ and they reign with Him a thousand years; that is, they are priests and kings. But, in verse 11, we have the great final session; and we do not read of the saints in that. It says, "I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled, and place was not found for them". We come here to finality, and we are in the presence of the glory of the great white throne, and Him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled. Think of the majesty of the One who sits upon this throne! -- "The earth and the heaven fled, and place was not found for them". The judgment which is administered from that throne clears the way morally for a new heaven and a new earth. No loose ends are left; no moral issue remains unsettled. "I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea exists no more", chapter 21:1. And then finally, in verse 5, we have another reference to Him that sat on the throne, "He that sat on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new", and so on. I thought we might get an impression of what sessional judgment means, and the saints having part in it in their own place; and then the glory connected with this great final session; and the glory of the One presented; and the way, when it is over, in which there is the introduction of the new heaven and the new earth, and He can say, "It is done".

Ques. Does Paul have to do with both kinds of judgment in 2 Corinthians? He refers to, "the arms of our warfare", chapter 10:4. I wondered if that linked with judicial warfare. Then in chapter 13 he refers to coming the third time, and what will have to take place

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with those who have sinned and have not repented, involving what is sessional.

G.R.C. Those passages help. As you say, in 2 Corinthians 10 he is referring to the arms of their warfare; this would no doubt be judicial in character, for it is to overthrow strongholds in the minds of men. That is where the enemy's strongholds are; and sometimes, alas, the enemy can get a stronghold in the mind of a believer. It says, "overthrowing reasonings and every high thing that lifts itself up against the knowledge of God". But then, as you say, in chapter 13 of that epistle he has sessional judgment in mind. He says, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every matter be established. I have declared beforehand, and I say beforehand as present the second time, and now absent, to those that have sinned before, and to all the rest, that if I come again I will not spare".

Ques. Sometimes we hear the expression, 'The right thing was done in the wrong way'. Would this matter of judging and making war in righteousness show that everything, whether a matter of judgment or conflict, must be maintained in righteousness? We should do the right thing and in the right way.

G.R.C. That is very important. "He judges and makes war in righteousness". Men say that anything is fair in war, but that is not so in divine warfare. If we do not know how to make war in righteousness, we shall lose the battle.

Ques. Would the apostle, speaking of, "the odour of his knowledge through us in every place", 2 Corinthians 2:14, confirm that? "An odour from death unto death, but to the others an odour from life unto life". I was thinking of doing things in a right way, and thus of the odour which attached to Paul and those

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with him. They would do the right thing in the right way; so that, whether souls were saved, or whether souls were lost, there was an odour to God.

G.R.C. "A sweet odour of Christ to God in the saved and in those that perish", 2 Corinthians 2:15. So that, even in the preaching of the gospel would you not say there is a judicial aspect?

Rem. "Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord we persuade men", 2 Corinthians 5:11.

Ques. And should not the throne come more into the preaching in these last days? I was noticing, in the quotation the Lord makes in Luke 4, that in two cases the word "preach" is connected with the throne, and in one case it is connected with the needs of the poor. The Lord says, in reading, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach" -- that word is evangelize -- "glad tidings to the poor"; that is, the needs of men are in mind. Then He goes on, "to preach to captives deliverance", and that word is the word connected with the throne. And "to preach the acceptable year of the Lord" is also connected with the throne in Isaiah 61. And I wondered whether Paul, in his closing letter, the second epistle to Timothy, is not very emphatic in that matter. He says, "Proclaim the word; be urgent in season and out of season", 2 Timothy 4:2, involving the maintenance of the rights of the throne amongst men.

G.R.C. And so in both of the epistles to Timothy he speaks of himself as a herald, does he not?

Rem. Yes. The word, "Proclaim" is the same word as herald, but as a verb.

G.R.C. That is interesting. A herald, one would judge, is connected with the throne. His message is

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a proclamation from the throne. And that is how Paul regarded himself, "a herald and apostle ... a teacher of the nations", 1 Timothy 2:7, and 2 Timothy 1:11.

Ques. And does it not become attractive? Isaiah saw the Lord (Adonai) sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, Isaiah 6:1, and, as the rights of that throne were upheld, Isaiah comes into the greatest blessing.

G.R.C. Very good. So he says, "Here am I, send me". Isaiah 6:8. He was sent from the throne.

Ques. Would it be helpful if you told us what the throne sets forth? Is it a moral idea -- the holiness and majesty of God?

G.R.C. God says of Himself, "I am a great King", Malachi 1:14. Even in human affairs we get some idea of a throne; and there are rights connected with a human throne which cannot be trifled with without dire consequences to those who do so. But God is the great King; and it says twice in scripture that righteousness and judgment are the foundation of His throne Psalm 89:14; and Psalm 97:2. But I believe what has been said would help us in going out with the gospel. If we are really sent, we go forth as sent from the throne; we have a message from the throne, and woe to those who reject it.

Ques. Is that not the theme of the speaking on Mars Hill?

G.R.C. Paul speaks there of the commandment: "God ... now enjoins men that they shall all everywhere repent", Acts 17:30. That is really a command from the throne.

Rem. And it is, "Because he has set a day ...".

G.R.C. Quite so. "He has set a day in which he is going to judge the habitable earth in righteousness".

Ques. What would you say as to grace in connection

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with the throne? Do we not understand that grace is on the throne today?

G.R.C. Quite so. Grace reigns through righteousness; grace is enthroned, and that is what we proclaim in the gospel. But those who despise grace come in for the severest judgment. You cannot trifle with the throne; if the throne is sending out a message of grace it is nevertheless a command. "God ... enjoins men that they shall all everywhere repent".

Ques. Grace does not minimise the dignity which is right and proper to the preaching. Does it not rather set out the sovereignty of God in all its grandeur?

G.R.C. I think it does; and the penalty for refusing the commands of grace is a fearful one, because God is presenting His best to men, but in the way of command. The gospel is preached, "for obedience of faith among all the nations", Romans 1:5.

Ques. Do we connect the titles in 1 Timothy with what you are saying? I was thinking of the expression, "the King of the ages", 1 Timothy 1:17, and then, "The blessed and only Ruler", 1 Timothy 6:15.

G.R.C. I would, and it links with the way he opens the epistle -- "Paul, apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the command of God our Saviour". Then, after saying that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, he says, "Now to the King of the ages, the incorruptible, invisible, only God, honour and glory to the ages of ages". If we refuse the gospel message, we dishonour that God.

Ques. Is that why you connected the thought of penalty with disobeying the gospel, according to 2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9?

G.R.C. It says, "Who shall pay the penalty of

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everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his might". The word penalty is used.

Ques. And is God's glory seen in that paying of the penalty? Following the reference to the throne in Psalm 97, it says, "A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his adversaries round about". And then in verse 6, "The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the peoples see his glory".

G.R.C. There is glory connected with what is judicial. Of course, what Paul is occupied with specially in Timothy is the glad tidings of the glory of the blessed God -- that is, God happy in the administration of His grace, and its results. That is what God delights in, and in that His glory shines in its fulness; but nevertheless there is a glory connected with what is judicial.

Ques. Could we have a word on sessional judgment, as associated with the thrones and those who sat upon them? Is there a moral connection with the great white throne?

G.R.C. Both of these sessional scenes of judgment are consequent upon all armed opposition being subdued. The military aspect of judgment deals with armed opposition; and, as I say, we have to think of spiritual arms -- not physical; and spiritual arms are exceedingly powerful. You can understand that, while there is armed opposition, there is not a state of rest for deliberative judgment. Paul says that when he came to Corinth he would hear everything in the mouth of two or three witnesses; that is the idea of sessional judgment. It is remarkable to think that the saints are to have part in that throughout the millennial day -- even those who lose their lives for the

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testimony after we have gone. What great dignity!

Ques. Did the putting down of armed opposition culminate at the end of David's reign, thus leaving the sessional judgment to Solomon in conditions of peace?

G.R.C. Generally speaking, David had to meet armed opposition, and his judicial dealings were linked with that; but, as you say, the result of David subduing the enemies was that sessional judgment comes into view at the beginning of Solomon's reign.

Rem. In Psalm 122, in connection with Jerusalem built as a city which is compact together, it says, "There are set thrones for judgment, the thrones of the house of David" (verse 5); and in the following section of the Psalm it refers to peace and prosperity in the palaces.

G.R.C. So that while Solomon's reign began with sessional judgment, yet it had to be maintained throughout the reign. "He made the porch for the throne where he judged, the porch of judgment", 1 Kings 7:7. And the idea is carried forward into the New Testament -- Solomon's porch, Acts 5:12.

Ques. Would the thought of sonship underlie that? In the end of Matthew 17 the Lord says, "Me and thee"; and, of course, at the beginning of that chapter the Son is set out in His glorious Person on the mount. And then we have what is sessional assembly-wise in chapter 18.

G.R.C. That is very helpful.

Ques. Does not the sessional judgment really deal with the underlying condition which brought about the conflict?

G.R.C. That is the first thing which has to be dealt with.

Ques. Involving persons, such as Joab and Shimei?

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G.R.C. Yes. Solomon had to deal with such immediately.

Rem. You made the remark that, in sessional judgment, we may have to act as regards those who have caused the insurrection.

G.R.C. They may be dealt with in the course of the military operations. In actual fact, in what we are reading here the beast and the false prophet were taken, and that closed the conflict. They were taken, and "Alive were both cast into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone". So that in this final conflict, the ringleaders, as we may say, are dealt with summarily; their case does not await the session. Even in human affairs, when military operations are on, people may be dealt with summarily; their offences do not need proving. It does not need a session to prove their guilt, because they are red-handed in their crime and rebellion. But then there are always others involved whose offences are not so clear, and those cases have to be considered in sessional judgment. Those Solomon dealt with had been engaged in the more subtle side of the opposition.

Ques. May we take it that even in our day we can count upon the Lord Himself to act on these lines? It is not a matter in which we have to move without Him; but is it not the case that we ought to discern when and how the Lord is bringing the conflict to an issue, and also how He is raising matters with persons?

G.R.C. I think so, especially in the military side of it. The Lord is the great military Leader. We are to be strong in the Lord, and in the might of His strength. Ephesians 6:10. He would lead, and, if in the conflict He exposes persistent evil and brings those responsible

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into judgment, we can leave that. But then, in the ordinary maintenance of the peace of the realm, as we may say, sessional judgment is necessary.

Ques. In sessional judgment there is the idea of setting things out in order in arriving at a judgment. Is that not to carry everyone? We should all be carried by what is right; there should be no question about it.

Ques. Do you get this in Deuteronomy, where much is made of the judges, and matters are reviewed, in their true spiritual bearing, long after they have taken place, in view of adjustment -- such as the issue in regard of the golden calf, and other matters?

G.R.C. So would you say that in sessional character we are not always considering specific cases? The enthroned elders in chapter 4 suggest the deliberative side, and the living creatures the executive side. In sessional judgment are we not to be continually in deliberation as to what has taken place, and the moral principles involved? Then by an understanding of the principles which have also underlain earlier conflicts we become intelligent as to the present, do we not? We need to see what underlies defection. I believe one of the underlying things is a failure to apprehend the greatness of the Person of Christ. If the Person of Christ is cherished in our hearts in the way He is presented in this book, we shall not turn aside. There has been of late some tendency to limit Him to His place in Manhood -- to take what one might call a mean advantage of the fact that He has come into Manhood to deny Him the full honours of Deity.

Ques. You mean that those who fall down do not fall out?

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G.R.C. That is good. If we fall down in prostration before Him, we shall be preserved.

Ques. As to those referred to at the end of chapter 19, "the rest", are they still reserved for the final judgment of the great white throne?

G.R.C. Evidently; it does not say they were cast at that time into the lake of fire. We need to approach this section in a spirit of deep reverence. "I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it" -- John saw Him -- "from whose face the earth and the heaven fled, and place was not found for them". It is difficult to think of words more expressive of majesty than these -- "from whose face the earth and the heaven fled". In the presence of earthly majesty we might feel we are not fitted, and we must hide ourselves, but think of earth and heaven fleeing from the face of this One! And I think we should consider the way scripture speaks of the One who sits on the throne -- the undefined way in which scripture speaks. We noticed in chapter 4, verse 2, "Behold, a throne stood in the heaven, and upon the throne one sitting". He is not defined. And so here it says, "I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it": I think we have to learn something from this.

Ques. What is in your mind in that regard?

G.R.C. I think it is one of the most important ways of apprehending the Lord; but one of the least understood, perhaps. He is not presented in any glory that is personal to Himself. He speaks elsewhere of His own throne; and if we think of Him thus, we would think of Him as King and Priest, and as Head over all things. But here it is just, "Him that sat on it". No glory personal to Himself is mentioned -- nothing to identify Him. We know that it must be

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Him, because God is the invisible God, and whatever is expressed relative to God Himself is expressed in Him. We need help to understand the Lord as presented thus, not in any of His personal glories, because that is not the point; the point here is that it is the throne of God, and He is sitting upon the throne as representing God. And, of course, He fully represents God because He is God. I do not know that I can make myself very clear.

Rem. I apprehend that, inasmuch as John says that he, "saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it", he is not alluding to God in the inscrutability and invisibility of His Being, but he is alluding to Him in some One whom John can see.

G.R.C. So he is alluding to Him in the One who has come into Manhood in order to be the expression of God in every feature which belongs to God. But I think it is important to see the place the Lord has on the throne, representing God because He is God, but not as bringing forward anything personal to Himself, for this would detract from the fact that this is the throne of God. The Spirit of God is bringing forward nothing personal, nothing that attaches to Him personally as a Man. He is there as simply representing God.

Ques. Would you connect this with John 5:22? "The Father ... has given all judgment to the Son", and "because he is Son of man" (verse 27)?

G.R.C. I think scriptures such as that enables us to identify who this is; but, nevertheless, there seems remarkable skill in the way the Spirit of God presents the matter here. John saw a throne, "and him that sat on it". It is the throne of God. Our attention is not directed to anything personal to Christ; He is

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there as the One in whom the invisible God is expressed, in whatever aspect He may present Himself whether majesty, judicial glory as here, or any other feature of Himself. When it is a question of God; the personal glories of the Son recede. It is like the Son being placed in subjection. 1 Corinthians 15:28. His personal glories are no longer engaging the soul, and so it just says, "and him that sat on it".

Rem. He is, "the effulgence of his glory and the expression of his substance" Hebrews 1:3.

Ques. Would it not be right to say that we must leave this in its own mystery, and bow in the presence of it, because of the way the Spirit presents it? In chapter 1 it is, "One like the Son of man", Revelation 1:13, and judicial habiliments are presented to us. In chapter 5 the throne is connected with, "A Lamb standing, as slain", and then acclamations come in. We can easily identify Who is being spoken of in those circumstances. But here, is it not more a question, not of identification, but of accepting the majesty of the position, in view of the finalising of everything judicially?

G.R.C. Yes, and I wondered if it drew out our affections to the One who sits on the throne, that He should be prepared that everything that attaches to Him personally should be out of sight. It is a question of God. It links on with the final scene -- "God all in all", 1 Corinthians 15:28.

Ques. Would the expression, "from whose face the earth and the heaven fled", be mainly a description of majesty, rather than a statement of fact? The earth and heaven fleeing is a statement of fact; but I wondered whether John as writing, "from whose face the earth and the heaven fled" would be describing

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the majesty and the greatness which he saw.

G.R.C. I think it greatly stresses majesty.

Ques. Is there some link with the "I AM" in John's gospel? In both cases it is asserted in the presence of His enemies, and in the latter case they fall down before Him. I am not linking it immediately with this, but is there a kind of foreshadowing?

G.R.C. I think so.

Ques. Would you say that only true bondmen can stay in His presence and see His face, according to Revelation 22:3, 4 -- "his servants shall serve him, and they shall see his face"?

G.R.C. Quite so. His servants are retained in His presence and see His face. They do not have to flee. And I think thus He can be taken account of as the effulgence of God's glory and the expression of His substance. But here, no doubt, the great point is the majesty of the One sitting on the throne, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled. The Spirit would give us an impression of the majesty and solemnity of this scene. It says in Hebrews 1, verses 10 - 12, "And, Thou in the beginning, Lord, hast founded the earth, and works of thy hands are the heavens. They shall perish, but thou continuest still; and they all shall grow old as a garment, and as a covering shalt thou roll them up, and they shall be changed; but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail". Created things are viewed there as a garment, and as a covering which He rolls up when it is finished with. Here it is a slightly different presentation, for the earth and the heaven fled. What is not stated in Hebrews is that, in the folding up of these things -- of the heavens and the earth, and the works of His hands -- every moral issue is settled. There it says, "They shall be

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changed; but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail". But the glory of Revelation 20 is that, in the removal of the present heaven and earth, no moral issue is left unsettled. Everything is brought to its final settlement at this great assize.

Ques. Would it be right to say that the earth and heaven flee here because they have been stained by sin?

G.R.C. I think that is more Peter's view of it, where he says, "the earth and the works in it shall be burnt up" and, "the heavens, being on fire shall be dissolved", 2 Peter 3:10, 12. Here it is the majesty of the Person, and the magnificence of this great session at the great white throne. His majesty is so great, and the throne so white and pure, that, in the setting aside of the present heaven and earth no moral issue is left unsolved. Every detail is wound up to the eternal glory of God.

Rem. Otherwise you could not have the new heaven and the new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness.

G.R.C. Quite so. It paves the way for the new heaven and the new earth.

Ques. Is that an incentive for us to complete our exercises, and get things cleared up, in view of what is positive?

G.R.C. It is, because we would all like to move on to new creation ground. We sing of new creation, and we long to enjoy it, but we cannot do so if moral issues are unsettled. It is after this great session, where every moral issue is settled, and evil consigned to its own place, that John says, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth".

Ques. Would you say that this is the moral consequence

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of Calvary and what the Lord endured in the forsaking of God?

G.R.C. Is it not exceedingly affecting, as we think of the great white throne and Him that sat on it, to remember that the One who sits on it has entered into death and judgment in a way in which no creature could? No one of those who are consigned to the lake of fire will ever suffer as He did. It is impossible for a creature to suffer as He did.

Rem. So that what is dealt with here is what is irreconcilable.

G.R.C. Yes. See how deliberative it all is -- "I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is that of life. And the dead were judged out of the things written in the books according to their works". What a scene it is! The righteous judgment of God!

Rem. And yet there is the book of life, and those written in it.

Ques. Is this the final scene of the reign of Christ, according to 1 Corinthians 15:26? "The last enemy that is annulled is death".

G.R.C. I think so. "Death and hades were cast into the lake of fire"; the last enemy is dealt with in sessional judgment.

Ques. Do you contrast the lake of fire, a confined place, with the new heavens and the new earth, a whole universe, a whole expanse, eternity itself, and God all in all?

G.R.C. Quite so. And the lake of fire, as I understand it, remains through all eternity, an eternal witness to the righteous judgment of God -- a solemn witness.

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Rem. Yes. To use the language of men, it is the curtain dropping, as the whole spiritual drama is worked out to a divine issue and closed up for ever.

G.R.C. And what a divine issue in the new heavens and the new earth! "Behold, I make all things new". It is the same One speaking. As we know, the books of the Bible were not divided into chapters by the Spirit of God -- it is only a matter of convenience -- and thus we have to look at this as one section. "He that sat on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new". It is His first recorded utterance. He sat on the throne, but the persons were judged out of the books. His first word is, "Behold, I make all things new". "And he says to me ..." how gracious that He should say this word to His bondman -- from off the throne! Think of the majesty of the throne, and the Person sitting on it, and yet having a word, as turning to John, for His bondman, close by!

Ques. Do these contrasting settings of the throne help us to see more clearly its eternal stability, on the one hand, and yet the bearing of it at any given point, on the other? It is a kind of need from the judicial angle, in the setting of the great white throne; but, in what we are just touching now, the setting is the needs of certain persons -- that they might come into the full gain of what is connected with eternity.

G.R.C. How very precious that is! When the One on the throne begins to speak, He says, "Behold, I make all things new"; and then He says a word to His bondman, "Write, for these words are true and faithful". Think of Him assuring His bondman that the words were true and faithful! How could they be anything else as coming from Him? And then

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John says, "He said to me, It is done". Think of the majesty of the Person! "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end". And then He says, "I will give to him that thirsts of the fountain of the water of life freely".

Rem. So that the power in which everything will be finally solved is morally assured in support of the servant in suffering, before they are solved literally.

Ques. Is not verse 7 very beautiful?

G.R.C. I am glad you referred to that. "He that overcomes shall inherit these things, and I will be to him God, and he shall be to me son". It is one of the most blessed verses in scripture. It is not here, 'I will be to him Father'. It is the majestic setting of things -- "I will be to him God, and he shall be to me son". That is, he is owned as son in this majestic setting.

Rem. And owned now, as an overcomer.

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FIFTH READING

Revelation 21:23; Revelation 22:3 - 5, 10 - 21.

G.R.C. I thought we might consider the glory of the Lamb as the great light-bearer in the city -- "the glory of God has enlightened it, and the lamp thereof is the Lamb" -- and then the final blessedness of His bondmen -- "his servants (bondmen) shall serve him, and they shall see his face ... and they shall reign to the ages of ages". Later we may arrive at the most important matter in this reading -- the two closing ways in which the Lord presents Himself. Firstly He says, "Behold, I come quickly, and my reward with me, to render to every one as his work shall be". And then there is a remarkable assertion of His deity, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end", verse 12. That is a presentation which would put every bondman on his mettle, and would stimulate each one to be an overcomer; because His reward is with Him, and He had indicated earlier in the book the way He would reward overcomers. In verse 16, the closing appeal or presentation is most touching, because, after all the vast range of glory and majesty presented in the book, He now says, "I Jesus", presenting Himself in a personal way to those who are the objects of His heart's affections -- "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify these things to you in the assemblies". He is thinking of his saints in all the local assemblies. It immediately invokes response that a Person so great in fame and majesty, as depicted in this book, should

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come in this loving way and say, "I Jesus". It evokes the bridal response which He is seeking -- "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come".

I thought we might speak briefly of the Lamb's glory in the city, the city itself being seen, "Coming down out of the heaven from God", radiant with the glory of God. If the city itself is radiant, how unspeakable is the radiance of Him whose light lightens it! The city itself is enlightened with the glory of God, and the lamp of that glory is the Lamb.

Ques. Does it suggest that all His administrative glories (for He dwells in the city in the coming age) shall be lit up and tempered with the lustre of His sufferings?

G.R.C. Very good. How beautiful and touching that that title should be used there; "the lamp thereof is the Lamb", because the fact that He can be the lamp of God's glory is because He has sacrificially glorified God, and God has glorified Him; and now He is the radiant expression of God's glory. In fact it says in Hebrews that He is the "effulgence of his glory and the expression of his substance", Hebrews 1:3.

Ques. Does that thought of a lamp, a condensed vessel, suggest the glory in which He came into such limitations; and now the light as viewed by the universe through the medium of the holy city from that vessel is so glorious?

G.R.C. The universe will be enlightened by the city; but how bright the lamp within the city -- how unspeakably bright "the effulgence of his glory and the expression of his substance". In referring to the lamp and the limitations, were you linking it with the word 'bodily' in Colossians 2:9?

Rem. I was thinking of that.

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G.R.C. "In him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily". So in the next scripture we have read it says, "and they shall see his face". What a place the bondmen have in the final setting; "his servants shall serve him" -- that is priestly service; "and they shall see his face" -- they are in the full radiance of the glory which shines in Him.

Ques. Does it mean that the radiancy of what is administrative is to be marked by the suffering feelings of Christ? It is in such a spirit that light comes, and is administered for blessing in the assembly and amongst men?

G.R.C. The glory of God shines forth in that suffering setting.

Ques. Does the reference to the glory of God, as enlightening, link with the earlier reference, "coming down out of the heaven from God, having the glory of God"?

G.R.C. Yes. The city has the glory of God, and diffuses it, because the Lamb is the lamp of the city. How radiant must be the light shining upon the inhabitants of the city, that they themselves should become luminous. In 2 Corinthians 4 it says that that radiancy has "shone in our hearts for the shining forth" (verse 6). This should characterise believers now. They are in the direct light and shining of the One Who is the image of God, and the light should shine forth through them.

Rem. So that the shining forth, as we might say, goes right through.

Ques. So that it says, "the glory of God has enlightened it". Does that mean that some of the enlightening and shining is going on now?

G.R.C. A reading like this is to help us to open

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our hearts more fully to the light, so that there might be a greater shining forth now.

Ques. Would the lamp-stand and the seven lamps in the tabernacle have any bearing upon this?

G.R.C. The seven golden lamps are referred to in chapters 1 - 3, and the shining of those lamps in testimony in the power of the Spirit.

Ques. Is the Spirit bringing into relief something in relation to Christ as the Lamb that can be found nowhere else?

G.R.C. Exactly. No one else is the effulgence of God's glory, or the expression of His substance; no one else could be.

Ques. Do we mostly understand that in relation to Christ as presented in Hebrews 1? But I think there is additional attraction here where it says, "the lamp thereof is the Lamb". It is the only suitable issue, in those millennial conditions, in view of His sufferings.

G.R.C. It greatly touches our affections. And as to His glory, it says, "the throne of God and of the Lamb" (it is only one throne) "shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him". Whose servants? No distinction is made between God and the Lamb.

Ques. Does the term, 'the Lamb' there make it easy for us to understand the force of the word, "they shall see his face"?

G.R.C. How could we see the face of God elsewhere? "... they shall see his face; and his name is on their foreheads". And His name should be on our foreheads now; we ought to have, in the most prominent place, an evidence that we are bondmen of this glorious Person. What is on a man's forehead is seen by everybody, and there should be some mark about us showing that we are the slaves of Jesus

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Christ. What a great testimony that would be!

Ques. Would you say that it is not there unintelligently?

G.R.C. I think the forehead would suggest that; it is intelligent affection.

Ques. In the scripture referred to, the Spirit speaks of the shining forth of the knowledge of the glory of God. Does this radiance connect with the knowledge of God?

G.R.C. You are thinking of that, too, in connection with the forehead? It is the true knowledge of God.

Ques. Does it not come in as a beautiful answer to the corruption at the beginning? I am thinking of the line introduced in the garden, and now God answering it all in the Lamb, and this incorruptible knowledge shining forth.

G.R.C. So that in this holy city the truth is for ever enshrined, because God and the Lamb are there; whereas in verse 15, "everyone that loves and makes a lie" is confined to his own place.

Rem. I have noticed that there is reference twice to there being no need of the sun (chapters 21: 23 and 22: 5), as though all that governs the universe is transferred, so to speak, to the Lamb -- everything centred in Him as regards rule, government or control.

Rem. All natural light eclipsed in this glorious outshining.

Rem. In John's gospel the light shone in the darkness. Now it shines where there is no darkness!

G.R.C. Very good! When the Lord was here the state around was that of night; but, according to this chapter, "night shall not be any more".

Ques. "The darkness is passing, and the true light

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already shines". Do you think there is some measure in which the saints are intended to enter into the value of this now? Is not the allusion to the Lamb and the Lamb's wife to bring home to us that a clear line of teaching objectively is one thing, but not everything; it is the application of the matter in circumstances of suffering which means so much?

G.R.C. Should it not be true of all local companies of saints that the darkness is passing and the true light already shines? Acceptance of the true light involves suffering.

Ques. Would you in any way connect this line of things with the cup at the Lord's supper? In giving the details of the supper to Paul, the Lord said, as to the loaf, "This is my body which is for you". He does not say that in connection with the cup; He had the whole universe in mind in referring to His blood; "This cup is the new covenant in my blood" -- here He does not say, "for you".

G.R.C. I think that is right. New covenant blessing is going to fill the universe on the basis of His blood; and, in that universe of bliss, He is the great Light-bearer. The One who suffered becomes the radiant vessel of the glory of God. The Lord would help us as to His words, "my blood", and all that has been effected through His blood. The priests presented the blood of the peace-offering, Leviticus 7:33, which would be a witness to us of divine love and blessing; but they also presented the blood of the burnt-offering, Leviticus 1:5. The presentation of the latter is more definite, and refers to what the blood has effected for God. It is the witness of a work completed for God, which ensures that the universe shall be filled with His glory.

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Ques. Would you say a word as to the Lord God -- Jehovah Elohim -- shining upon them (verse 5)?

G.R.C. I think it refers back to the fact that Jehovah Elohim formed man in Genesis 2. That title does not occur in Genesis 1, but in chapter 2; and the second reference to it is that "Jehovah Elohim formed Man, dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and Man became a living soul". Here Jehovah Elohim has achieved His end in man.

Ques. Is it the shining complacency of love, the fruit of all love's operations, and in such suffering?

G.R.C. It is. "Jehovah Elohim shall shine upon them". You can understand the joy of Jehovah Elohim in shining upon them -- complacent shining.

The shining is in the face of the Lord Jesus, the Lamb, and it is most affecting that the One who suffered is the vessel of this radiant glory.

Ques. Do we have the bondmen, priests and kings, here, as those who serve in priestly service; and then they reign? Is there moral order in that?

G.R.C. There is; because the great end, according to this book, is that God will secure the priest and the king. He has secured this in Christ, but He will also secure in the saints those features which are necessary for the representation of Himself in the universe. So it says of His bondmen that they shall serve Him (priestly service), and that they "shall reign to the ages of ages". Priesthood and royalty are presented there.

Rem. So that the great order with God is, blessing men; then priesthood, connected with His dwelling with them; and then this thought of reigning, ruling through them. Blessing; dwelling; reigning.

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G.R.C. Is there not moral order in that? Is not kingship the greatest thought, the culminating matter, the representation of God?

Rem. As the embodiment of those three thoughts -- blessing; dwelling; reigning; every testimony of God from the beginning is there.

Ques. Is the only occasion Jehovah Elohim appears in the gospel connected with the thought of reigning?

G.R.C. Yes; and with the greatness of Christ. Jehovah Elohim, "shall give him the throne of David his father" Luke 1:32. Then it says, "he shall be great". You can understand the title occurring in Luke, because Luke carries the thread of the testimony from Adam right through.

Ques. Is that why democracy and communism are such serious things, as running entirely counter to God's thought of rule?

G.R.C. We, therefore, have to guard against these principles seeping in amongst us.

Ques. Do you think the Lord shining upon them will secure eternal freshness; the vessel is replete, but everything is to flow from God Himself as God?

G.R.C. You feel what a living and pulsating matter eternity will be. We were reminded recently of the word, "he will rejoice over thee with joy ... he will exult over thee with singing", Zephaniah 3:17.

Applying that to the eternal scene, it is a remarkable thing that it is a scene of endless exultation on the part of God Himself. The saints will be singing; Christ will be singing; but God will be exulting with singing.

Rem. So that the greatest joy of all is God's joy.

G.R.C. It must be so; God's joy must exceed the

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joy of the creature. And we contribute to His joy.

Ques. Does this expression, "reign to the ages of ages", indicate that what is so pleasurable in this millennial setting goes on eternally?

G.R.C. I understand the expression, "to the ages of ages" means eternity.

Ques. Do we reign in eternity?

G.R.C. It may not be in an official capacity, but Romans 5:17 speaks of reigning in life. I believe that is an eternal idea.

Rem. The fact that the city is mentioned again as the city in the eternal setting at the beginning of chapter 21, would convey that there is an administrative influence and rule found in the assembly in eternity.

G.R.C. Exactly; the capital city is there. After all, we have to keep in mind that angelic beings were created before man, and are referred to as principalities and authorities. Ephesians 6:12. So that the idea of rule in the universe was prior to man, and will surely go on to eternity.

Ques. Does it imply how trustworthy that which has been brought to pass through the work of the Lamb will be; how God will commit Himself to it all in His bondmen? I was thinking of it as over against Adam, to whom rule was given; but he could not be relied upon, he failed.

G.R.C. I believe it is most important to understand that God trusts His bondmen, and they are the only persons who are trustworthy.

Rem. In the doxologies in Timothy, God in His inscrutability is before us. He is spoken of as the "King of those that reign", and "King of the ages".

G.R.C. The kingdom is an eternal idea. The mediatorial kingdom of Christ is delivered up to Him

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who is God and Father, but the kingdom itself does not cease.

Ques. Would you say that the title, "the Lamb", is not mentioned in the first part of chapter 21, because it particularly relates to the millennium and not eternity?

G.R.C. I think the title of "Lamb" is omitted in the first eight verses of this chapter to make it clear that the mediatorial kingdom is over. It is no longer the throne of God and of the Lamb, but the throne of God as such. The mediatorial side of the kingdom is over, but the inhabitants of the city will never fail to appreciate the Lamb. We do not change; we reach finality before the millennium.

Ques. I was wondering whether the personal glories of Christ would be treasured in the assembly, and therefore come over into eternity; but whether the particular point of the glory of the Lamb entered into the vindication of God?

G.R.C. I think the mediatorial kingdom is primarily for the vindication of Christ, and of God Himself, in the present heaven and the present earth. The mediatorial kingdom relates to the present heaven and the present earth. So you can understand the Spirit of God leaving out the title, "the Lamb", in the eternal state; because it is not the time of vindication, but the time of eternal satisfaction and rest. But I cannot think but that our appreciation of the Lamb will be as much as ever through all eternity.

Rem. So that, primarily, the coming age is God's vindication in glory of Him who suffered here in grace.

G.R.C. Exactly.

Ques. Would you say in that connection that the

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Lamb will always be the Lamb who had suffered?

G.R.C. It may be that that title will not be used in the eternal day, but I do not think we shall ever forget His sacrificial sufferings -- how could we? -- because there is no change in the inhabitants of the city; they will have reached their eternal state and condition before the millennial reign begins.

Rem. It has been said that the sacrificial side will not be prominent in eternity, but that, as the hymn says, "He who suffered once is there".

G.R.C. That is good.

Ques. Is the title "Mediator" an eternal matter, and is that not prominent in the title the "Lamb" here being so closely connected with God?

G.R.C. Yes; but I think here it is not only the Mediator, but the mediatorial kingdom. The Lord's mediatorship goes on to eternity, and must do so; but the mediatorial kingdom does not.

Ques. Is the mediatorial kingdom, referred to in 1 Corinthians 15, the kingdom which the Lord gives up?

G.R.C. That is the mediatorial kingdom.

Ques. That was in mind in my question as to our reigning, because the word is, "to the ages of ages". I wondered if that reigning was connected with the mediatorial side of the kingdom?

G.R.C. I have no doubt it is, in a primary way; but I think, in the principle of it, it remains. We belong to royalty eternally.

Rem. J.N.D. in his Synopsis, in regard of that expression, "reign to the ages of ages", says, 'Not only for the thousand years, but ever and ever'.

G.R.C. That is good.

Ques. I would like to refer to verse 3, "And no curse shall be any more", that being an eternal suggestion --

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the blessedness which obtains throughout eternity. Is it not that we always attribute everything to the great thought of the Lamb? "God and the Lamb" -- does not that remain?

G.R.C. It remains, but in the eternal condition it is not designated as the throne of God and the Lamb. In the millennial condition, the throne of God and the Lamb is in the city -- one throne; but God and the Lamb linked together, because it is still the mediatorial kingdom. Where the throne is mentioned in chapter 21: 5, the eternal condition, it is just, "he that sat on the throne"; so also as to the great white throne it says, "one that sat upon it". The Lamb is not mentioned in connection with the throne in those cases, because they are subsequent to the millennium. We know who the Sitter on the throne is -- it is the Lord Jesus; but not in any glory personal to Himself, but sitting on that throne as representing God; and the title 'the Lamb' is left out.

Ques. Our links with God, would you say, are eternally in Christ, His mediatorship remaining eternally? Our eternal link with God must be in that Person; but that Person is not viewed precisely as the Lamb. The Lamb, in a way, recedes from view as we pass from the millennium to the eternal state.

G.R.C. In the eternal state it is God. God is all in all; so that what is personal to Christ, and which will be so prominent in the millennium, is not referred to in connection with the Sitter on the throne in the passages already mentioned; but it is a question of God. But, as already quoted from the hymn, "He who suffered once is there". While the title, "the Lamb", will not be prominent, the One who suffered will ever be appreciated.

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Rem. The title "Lamb" in Revelation, being in the diminutive, would hardly, as such, go into eternity, there is nothing diminutive there.

G.R.C. The diminutive idea is to bring out what an object of affection He is. It does not suggest that there is anything diminutive about Him.

Ques. Would there also be a distinction between display and satisfaction? Would the display be more in regard to the world to come, and that is not needed in eternity?

G.R.C. Not in the same way. Display is for vindication, as has been said, and for God's glory.

We ought to pass on now to the presentations of Christ in chapter 22:12 and 13. As I said earlier, this presentation is to put all the bondmen on their mettle. The Lord presents Himself in the greatest possible way -- "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end". The fact that He presents Himself thus in the majesty of Godhead should put us all on our mettle as to what we can be for Him. What an honour to be the bondman of such an One! Then He says, "Behold, I come quickly, and my reward with me, to render to every one as his work shall be". The point is, where shall we stand? It challenges us as to whether we are overcomers.

Ques. Is the idea of reward not so much what the bondmen work for, but the joy of the Lord in rewarding what has been for Him?

G.R.C. That is a prominent point in it. But if we think of the promises He has made, even the last two, to the overcomers, well might this presentation of Himself stir our hearts, "My reward ... with me"! "He that overcomes, him will I make a pillar in the

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temple of my God, and he shall go no more at all out", Revelation 3:12. We have to go out now; but what a promise that is -- perhaps what we might call on priestly lines! And then to the overcomer in Laodicea He says, "He that overcomes, to him will I give to sit with me in my throne" -- that is the kingly side. I used to hear years ago that that was the least of the promises, but I regard it now as one of the greatest -- "... to him will I give to sit with me in my throne; as I also have overcome, and have sat down with my Father in his throne".

Ques. Is Paul thinking of the Lord, "the righteous Judge" -- the majesty of the Person, and the crown of righteousness which He would give?

G.R.C. I think that is exactly what he had in mind, "which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will render to me in that day", 2 Timothy 4:8.

Ques. Would this presentation of Christ greatly help our beloved brethren who are facing matters of association? To think for example, that if loss is faced in the matter of shareholding, or directorship, or partnership, or other associations, this glorious Person is coming quickly and His reward is with Him? His reward is greater than any loss sustained now!

G.R.C. Quite so. I think it would be the answer to everything which appears to us as an obstacle standing in the way of our carrying out the will of God.

Ques. And would it make us trustworthy bondmen? It was as a trustworthy bondman that Paul laboured at Ephesus and secured first love.

G.R.C. He says, "These hands". What a labourer he was!

Ques. In connection with the assemblies, the thought of works is referred to. I notice here the

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word is, "to render to every one as his work shall be". Would you make the distinction, please?

G.R.C. When He is referring to the assembly in a place, He refers to a company of people and to their works; but I think this is addressed to the individual. It is to rouse each one of us as to our bondmanship, and whether we are really overcomers.

Rem. In Matthew 25:21 the Lord says to the bondman who had gained five talents, "Well, good and faithful bondman".

Ques. Do we need to keep our thoughts away from the sovereign principle of gift here? Luke's presentation is different from Matthew's. There seems to be, in Matthew, a suggestion of gift in the five and two talents, but in Luke all are on the same level; each one had one mina.

G.R.C. As you say, it is not a question of gift, but of faithfulness. The Lord says, "Well done, thou good bondman; because thou hast been faithful in that which is least", Luke 19:17.

Ques. What greater reward could there be than what the Lord said, "Enter thou into the joy of thy lord", Matthew 25:23?

G.R.C. That is a wonderful thing, what more could a bondman desire? We should aim at being ten talent bondmen!

Ques. That would bring the apostle Paul in?

G.R.C. I am sure it would. We cannot doubt what the Lord will say to Paul!

Ques. Is the reward for the millennium, or is it eternal?

G.R.C. It is for the millennium; but if you think of what the Lord says to the overcomers, I do not think all the promises could be limited to the millennium.

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For instance, He says, "He that overcomes, him will I make a pillar in the temple of my God"; and He goes on to say, "and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem", (which is the eternal idea) "which comes down out of heaven, from my God".

Ques. It says, "as his work shall be"; why is it future there?

G.R.C. I think it is the way his work will appear under the scrutiny of the Divine Judge. It may appear all right now to believers, but how is it going to appear before the righteous Judge?

Rem. Moses says at the end of his prayer, "The work of our hands, establish thou it", Psalm 90:17.

Ques. And the same grace that will thus address the saints when there is no flesh left to judge, is the grace which wholesomely reminds us at best that we are unprofitable servants now?

G.R.C. That is very good. The Lord could not trust us, in our present condition, with commendation in any public sense. The flesh would overcome us.

Rem. "If you want to help me, do not make anything of me", F.E.R. said.

G.R.C. Your word about unprofitable bondmen is a very salutary one.

Ques. In some epistles Paul says that he is an apostle by God's will, but he never once says that he is a bondman by God's will. Is that to be noted?

G.R.C. What do you make of it?

Rem. Apostleship is a sovereign gift, but bondmanship is proper to all.

Rem. We want all believers to be bondmen!

G.R.C. Yes. Every brother a bondman and every sister a bondwoman!

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Rem. As you said earlier, this passage would put the bondmen on their mettle.

Ques. Could we have a touch on the final presentation, please?

G.R.C. The final presentation is most affecting, and is intended to be. We have been going through scenes of majesty and splendour surpassing anything known amongst men, occupied with the glory of the One in whom the majesty and greatness of God is expressed; and now He comes to us and says, "I Jesus". If a great personage in this world came and spoke to us like that, it would arouse emotion to think that such an one should speak to us by his personal name! Here is the greatest conceivable Person; He comes to the assemblies. The assemblies were in decline, and yet He says, "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify these things to you in the assemblies". What decline there is today! And yet He says, "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify these things to you in the assemblies", with a view to our being recovered to first love. The whole book has this in mind. It is the great Lover Himself saying, "I Jesus". He has sent His angel to testify these things in the assemblies, because His love remains undimmed in spite of decline; and that love requires a response. Nothing will satisfy Him but first love; nothing less could He accept because of Who He is. How could He accept a second place!

Ques. Do you mean, (and we are all eager about this), that the expression, "The Spirit and the bride say, Come" suggests the best? and that is what the Lord is after now?

G.R.C. I do. I believe it suggests recovery to first love.

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Rem. But the best is suggested by itself in the Spirit and the bride; and then those that hear come into it by obedience to the word -- they say, Come.

G.R.C. We ought to look at the thought of the Spirit and the bride by itself. The Spirit would ever say, Come! The bride, wherever the features are found, would also say, Come! Is that it?

Rem. That is what I had in mind.

G.R.C. "Let him that hears" -- we are to come into this.

Ques. Is that why the Lord introduces David in this section, because he represents the best in spiritual quality?

G.R.C. That is what I thought. It is a most affecting presentation; not now the warrior king, the King of kings and the Lord of lords; but He says, "I am the root and offspring of David", because, in the Old Testament, David represents the very best in quality for God; and what the Lord has in mind, even in securing first love for Himself from His saints, is to secure the whole service of God. That is what endears Him so to His own, because we know that He is considering for God in the fullest sense.

Ques. "In him is the yea, and in him the amen, for glory to God by us", 2 Corinthians l: 20. "Yea, I come quickly. Amen; come, Lord Jesus". Is there the merging of the Amens in this word of full response to Christ?

G.R.C. Quite so.

Ques. Is there a suggestion in the closing word, "Come, Lord Jesus"; of the full return to the light of Paul's ministry?

G.R.C. Very good. "Amen; come, Lord Jesus". What an answer from the heart of the bondman! We

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ought to note, perhaps, in passing, the way the Lord uses the word 'testify'. "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify these things to you in the assemblies", and then in verse 18, "I testify"; and then in verse 20, "He that testifies these things". It is not merely the Lord saying things, but He is testifying, and it refers to the whole book; all that we have been considering is part of this testimony. The Lord is testifying -- bringing things out in such a manner that we might be assured of the certainty of them, so that every presentation of Christ in this book is to be accepted in the certainty of it. It will affect us if we accept it thus.

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"COME, PRINCE OF PEACE, FOR NOW THE SANDS ARE RUN!"

John 1:1 - 3, 14, 19 - 37; John 3:25 - 31 to "above all"; John 21:19 - 23.

I wish, dear brethren, to speak of the Person of Christ, of John's witness, and, finally, of the disciple whom Jesus loved, the one who spoke the words we read last, "Amen; come, Lord Jesus".

When reading the gospel of John, whatever part we are reading we should never lose sight of the first three verses, which assert in unequivocal terms the deity of Christ. As we proceed in the gospel, we find Him in a subject position, speaking in the perfection of Manhood here; but while we delight in all that is expressed in Him thus, we must never leave out of our minds those first three verses. The Person we are contemplating in perfect Manhood, in perfect obedience, is there described -- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things received being through Him". These are amazing statements. He never began to be; He always was; but all things began to be through Him, and without Him not one thing began to be which exists. This is a sobering thought for all of us, because each one of us here began to be through Him. If we think of this, can we do other than worship Him? These verses state in a most emphatic way that He is the great I AM, the great self-existent One. All else owes its existence to Him.

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Similarly, in reading the book of Revelation, in whatever way the Lord may be presented, we must never overlook one of His final assertions in the book. He says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end" Revelation 22:13. The One who said this is the One who said, "Behold, I come quickly" Revelation 22:12. If we hold this truth in our hearts and minds, we shall be preserved worshipfully in relation to the Person of Christ. It will not detract from the reality of His Manhood, because, if such a Person is found in figure as a Man, He must be absolutely perfect in the condition into which He came; He could not be other than absolutely perfect in any position or relationship He might be pleased to enter into or take up. Thus, if the Word became flesh, as He has done; and if He became dead, as He did become; and if He is now living to the ages of ages, as He is; we see in Him Manhood in absolute perfection, without a flaw in any way; and we delight in Him as Man, because all our blessing depends upon His having become flesh, His having become dead, and His living again to the ages of ages. But, while we delight in every feature and every glory which attaches to Him in manhood, if we remember who He is we shall be preserved from ever bringing Him down in our minds to our level.

We shall be preserved from taking advantage of the condition into which He has been pleased to come, (and I do not refer only to His condition when here in humiliation, but also to His glorified condition) to deprive Him of the honour and glory due to Him in Deity. If we fail to give Him the homage which is due to Him in His Person, which involves prostration before Him, we shall surely make shipwreck.

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And so, if we consider the way He is presented to us, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us" (and we have to contemplate his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father), we see sonship in Him in perfection and uniqueness. He is the Son, and He is referred to as, "the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father". He has been pleased to raise us up, as it were, to the level of association with Him, but never to the level of equality with Him. Impossible! We are brought into the relation of sons, but never to be on equality with Him, dear brethren. He is the Son, and the only-begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father. He says at the close of the gospel, "I ascend". Who else could say that? "I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God". Marvellous thing that He should say, "Go to my brethren". He is pleased to raise us to that status -- to acknowledge us as His brethren. Through divine grace we are men of His order, born of God, born of the Spirit. So He says, "Go to my brethren"; but let us not bring Him down to our level. He is the Firstborn; He is the One who can say, "I ascend to my Father" (that is unique to Himself) "and your Father, and to my God" (unique to Himself) "and your God". If we think of Him as singing praises in the midst of the assembly, let us not, in our minds, bring Him in any way down to our level. If He is singing praises in the midst of the assembly, He is doing so as the One who is Head of the assembly, and Head over all things to it. Even the persons who are types, David and Solomon, had their own distinction. It was David who said in the first instance, "I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the congregation will I praise

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thee", Psalm 22:22. But was there equality between David and the people? Not at all! David was outstanding in kingship, in headship, and in directing the whole service as in the midst of the assembly of Israel; and so was Solomon. Think of Solomon the king! There was no comparison, even in the type, between the king and the assembly of Israel; and we must keep this in our minds and hearts, dear brethren. The Lord is pleased to say, "I will declare thy name to my brethren; in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises" Hebrews 2:12; but He is not on our level. Far greater is He than David, far greater than Solomon; we cannot measure His greatness.

Scripture is careful in referring to His manhood; and we need to be careful, not, in any way, to limit Him to manhood. Scripture speaks freely of His manhood, for Jesus is truly Man. He Himself says, "but now ye seek to kill me, a man who has spoken the truth to you", John 8:40. Scripture also speaks of the Man, Christ Jesus; and yet the Spirit of God guards the truth of His Person with care. The Lord Jesus delights to call Himself the Son of Man, as we know, but in the description in the first chapter of Revelation it says, "one like the Son of man". And so in Ezekiel, "a likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it" chapter 1:26, that is, upon the throne. I am not wanting to weaken the truth of the Manhood of Christ at all, but would emphasise that we need care not to bring Him down to a mere human level. Though we are men of His order, through grace, we shall never be more than men. The Lord Jesus is unique because of who He is. We shall never be more than men, the most blessed of men, glorified men, the nearest to Him of all creatures. But let us

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not take advantage of that nearness to belittle the unique glory which is His; or, in any way, speak in uncomely familiarity to Him, or about Him. In Philippians 2 it says, "Christ Jesus; who, subsisting in the form of God" (it does not say He left that form) "did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God". So we find in the gospel of John that He made statements which implied equality with God. It was not an object of rapine to do so. In fact He says to His enemies, "Before Abraham was, I am", John 8:58. The passage in Philippians 2 goes on, "but emptied himself, taking a bondman's form, taking his place in the likeness of men; and having been found in figure as a man ..." That is the language which the Spirit of God uses in a passage which guards the truth of His Person. It does not say He became a man, but "having been found in figure as a man". We are free to speak of Him as Man because He is the true Man; but, in a passage which is stressing His Person, it says, "taking his place in the likeness of men; and having been found in figure as a man" -- this because His Person never changes. The condition changed; He was here in flesh in humiliation, in bondman's form; He is now in glorious manhood in another condition, but His Person is unchanged all the way through, and that is what we have to hold in our minds and hearts. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and to the ages to come", Hebrews 13:8. I am only telling you things you know, dear brethren, but I am reminding you of them to stress that He is unique. However highly we are raised up by God, and ennobled, we are still men, and only men. He is the Man Christ Jesus. But who is He? He is the great I AM. Thank

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God He has taken His place in the likeness of men in humiliation here, and now as Man in glory! We can never thank God enough for this; but let us render to Him at all times the honours which are His.

Now I go on to speak of the witness of John. He is not called the baptist, because this gospel is not stressing his service, but the person. John is brought for ward as a sample minister, though he does not belong to this dispensation. He becomes an example for us of the features of a true minister of Christ. The Word had become flesh. What was required in a minister of such an One? It is set out in John, a man sent from God. That is the first requirement in the minister -- that he should be sent from God. "The Word was with God, and the Word was God". And if a man is sent from God, he will have an understanding -- in so far as the creature is able -- of the greatness of the Person to Whom he is bearing witness.

So John, when they come to him, makes nothing of himself at all; and, dear brethren, that is the point for us in these days. This is not the time to make anything of men, as men. We are reaching the end of the dispensation; John's gospel was written for the end, and the great thing is to make everything of Christ; that is the point for the moment, so that He may shine in all His radiance before the hearts of the saints. Let no one get in the way to prevent the shining of Christ undimmed upon the saints -- "his countenance as the sun shines in its power", Revelation 1:16.

They come to John, and say, "Thou, who art thou?" He could have said quite truly, I am a man sent from God; but he "acknowledged and denied not, and acknowledged". How definite he was about

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it! There was no hesitation, not a little bit of reserve which would claim just a little recognition, just a little flattery, a little place! Nothing of that kind at all! He "acknowledged and denied not, and acknowledged, I am not the Christ". As if to say, Do not look at me; I am only here to point you to Someone else. "And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he says, I am not. Art thou the prophet? And he answered, No. They said therefore to him, Who art thou?" The answer literally is, "I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness". That is all he was -- just a voice. The voice would not get in the way of the glory of Christ's shining; it is persons who get in the way. John was just a voice; and the Lord would help us to be like that, dear brethren -- to be voices to point to Christ, so that there might be nothing to obscure His shining; that the saints might not be occupied with the vessel, but with the One to whom the vessel bears witness.

So he says, "I baptize with water. In the midst of you stands, whom ye do not know, he who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to unloose". He was not worthy to be a slave of such a Person! It was the slave's duty to unloose the sandal; and here is a man who said, I am not even worthy to be a slave to the Person to whom I am bearing witness. If we have an appreciation of who Jesus is, this will be the language of our hearts -- we are not even worthy to be His slaves! Think of who the Person is! Who am I to be the slave of One like that? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... and the Word became flesh". John would have counted it the greatest honour to be allowed to stoop down and

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unloose the Lord's sandal. That is the spirit in which we are called upon to take up our witness. This is the witness of John; are we going to be behind John? We are more favoured than he. We know the Lord better than he did; are we going to be behind him in our witness? Are we, ourselves, going to obtrude into the picture? Or are we taking the view that we are not even worthy to be His slaves? Thank God we may be slaves! Thank God, the Lord will accept us as His slaves! But we could not say that we are worthy of it! If we think of the Lord as the great Warrior, coming forth riding upon a white horse, and "upon his thigh a name written, King of kings, and Lord of lords", Revelation 19:16, who would not count it an honour to unloose the thong of His sandal? What a mercy it is that we are allowed to be His slaves! What an honour! What a privilege!

So John's witness goes on. He says, "Behold the Lamb of God". He knows how to present the Person effectively, in a way which would be most calculated to reach the heart and meet the need. "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world". Who else could do that? Who else could do it but the One who is the I AM become flesh for this great sacrificial work? John says, "He it is of whom I said, A man comes after me who takes a place before me, because he was before me". Colossians says, "He is before all, and all things subsist together by him. And he is the head of the body, the assembly", Colossians 1:17, 18. Who would not worship Him?

Then, "John bore witness, saying, I beheld the Spirit descending as a dove from heaven, and it abode upon Him. And I knew him not; but he who sent me to baptise with water, he said to me, Upon whom

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thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit. And I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God". Now we have another title; John's witness is that He is the Son of God, and that He baptises with the Holy Spirit. He brings in life for men; but as for Himself, the Spirit descends as a dove and abides upon Him, indicating the Spirit's delight in this blessed Person. I love to think of what it means to the Father and to the Spirit that the Word has become flesh, and that Jesus is now a glorified Man. I delight to think of what it means to the Father to have One Whom, in Manhood, is the Son of His love, the delight of His heart, the image of the invisible God, the glorious Centre of God's universe! And then what it meant to the Spirit, whose affections were so drawn out that He descended and abode upon Him! And then what it still means to the Spirit!

What a witness this was on the part of John! A witness to the greatness of the Person, and to men coming into the greatest possible blessing through Him; the sin of the world to be taken away, and men to be baptised with the Holy Spirit!

Then, in chapter 3: 28, John says, "Ye yourselves bear me witness that I said, I am not the Christ, but, that I am sent before him. He that has the bride is the bridegroom". He brings out another great title -- "the Bridegroom". How wonderful that a divine Person should, in Manhood, be the Bridegroom! How attractive to our hearts! How did John know about the bride and the Bridegroom? He was let into the secret: he was the friend of the Bridegroom. Bondmanship leads to friendship. He did not count himself worthy to be a bondman; but the Lord, the

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Bridegroom, made him His friend; and John, I suppose, knew about the bride and the Bridegroom before any other human being. He says, "He that has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices in heart because of the voice of the bridegroom: this my joy then is fulfilled". His whole heart's satisfaction lay in the fact that the Bridegroom had come, and that He would have the bride. He, the friend of the Bridegroom, had heard His voice; and he says, "He must increase, but I must decrease. He who comes from above is above all".

That is the word for us, dear brethren -- "He must increase"; that is the word for the close of the dispensation. The Lord is about to come, and the Spirit's concern in present ministry is surely to cause His glory to shine in its radiance before us, and that nothing should obstruct the shining. "He must increase, but I must decrease". It is a question of the Christ shining directly into, and capturing, every heart, in view of the rapture, in view of the appearing, in view of the Bridegroom having the bride. Are we going to distract attention from the Bridegroom? John the baptist did not. Think of obtruding ourselves between the bride and the Bridegroom, and thus robbing the Bridegroom of His portion! Who could think of such a thing? It would be abhorrent to John the baptist. How much more so should it be to us, who form part of the bride! We should not only emulate John the baptist, but go beyond him in self effacement, in our concern that the Bridegroom should have the bride without any obstruction or distraction whatever. We want every eye to be fixed on Him, and every heart. "He must increase". Let

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Him increase, dear brethren, until He comes, and fills us for all eternity.

Now, I pass on to the other John, the disciple that Jesus loved. We have been occupied with him as the bondman in Revelation, as it says at the beginning of the book, "he signified it, sending by his angel, to his bondman John". What a favour it would be if the Lord could speak of anyone of us like that! John wanted no other place; he never calls himself an apostle. I am not suggesting that either Peter or Paul called themselves apostles for any selfish reason; they certainly did not; they both called themselves bondmen, and put the word bondman in front of apostle when using both; but John never speaks of apostleship; he is just, "His bondman John". And because he was Christ's bondman, he was, in a peculiar way, His friend. The John we have spoken about already was the friend of the Bridegroom; but the John we are speaking about now was, in a special way, the friend of Christ. That is what is implied in what is said in the passage we have read. "Peter turning round sees the disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also leaned at supper on his breast, and said, Lord, who is it that delivers thee up?" In chapter 13 it is also said that John was in the bosom of Jesus. That is the place of friendship. Friendship with Divine Persons is a wonderful thing; it is altogether on a different level from friendship as commonly spoken of amongst men. Friendship, in the divine sense, means a bosom friend; the secrets of the bosom are confided to such. How is it the Lord can confide secrets to persons? Because they are truly bondmen! He can trust His bondmen; He makes them His friends.

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So here it says, "The disciple whom Jesus loved". That is how John refers to himself. Jesus loved all the disciples, but this one knew His love in a surpassing way. As a matter of time, this was written after the Revelation. John is the bondman in Revelation, but in writing the gospel he says, "the disciple whom Jesus loved". He is referred to thus four times. Three times he uses the basic word for love as here, 'the settled disposition'; but on one occasion he uses the love of friendship -- "the disciple to whom Jesus was attached". The remarkable thing is that, at the end, Peter turns round and sees this one following. What a remarkable thing! John had been following all the way, and Peter looks round and sees him following. It was so evident that he was following, that Peter took account of it. Here was one who was following. The Lord Jesus had said to Peter, "Follow me", and Peter looks round and sees someone doing it. John was doing it. So Peter says to the Lord, "Lord, and what of this man? Jesus says to him, If I will that he abide until I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me". Those are the last words of the Lord in this gospel. That would be the Lord's command to each one of us here -- "Follow thou me". Who could think of disobeying a command like this when we think of who He is! Think of those first three verses of the gospel again, and of Who it is saying, "Follow thou me". Do not look at other people, do not be concerned with what others do; "Follow thou me". But John was already doing it, and the Lord said, "If I will that he abide until I come, what is that to thee?" Now John is the one who abides till the Lord comes -- not personally, of course. John has gone to be with the Lord. He abides in his ministry, but that is

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not the only point here. The main point is that persons of this character are going to abide until the Lord comes; and the question is, Are we in this matter? There are going to be persons until the Lord comes who are like John; there will be such until the end. The point for you and me is, are we of this character -- persons who assume no official position or place, but love to be His bondmen? Persons who are conscious of His love, disciples whom Jesus loves, follow all the way.

That kind of person will be here when the Lord comes; and the word to each one of us at a time like this is -- Am I going to be among those who are marked by such features? So, at the end of Revelation, when the Lord speaks His last word, "He that testifies these things says, Yea, I come quickly", there is the bondman, the one who tarries till He comes. He is there and says, "Amen; come, Lord Jesus". That is the language of the heart of every bondman. May it be ours, for His name's sake!

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Originally appeared in "Spiritual Unity In The Ministry Of John And Other Readings And Addresses", Ministry by S. McCallum, Stow Hill, 1957, pages 188 - 202

BONDMEN OF GOD AND OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

Acts 2:18; 3 John 14; Revelation 1:1, 2; Revelation 10:7; Revelation 19:5 - 7; Revelation 22:3 - 5

Address by G. R. Cowell, London, June 27th, 1957

I wish, dear brethren, as a bondman of Jesus Christ, and as, I trust, His happy slave, to speak a word to my fellow-bondmen with a view to each one of us being truly bondmen of God and of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God has great thoughts for men. His great thought for men, as regards relationship is sonship. He has also great thoughts for men as to the dignity He would put upon them through the anointing. We speak of Christ the Prophet, Priest and King. Those offices are involved in the anointing. God would put great dignity upon His saints in the power of the anointing. But the practical enjoyment of our relationship with God, and our coming into the gain of the dignity of the anointing, is dependent upon our accepting our place as bondmen. I do not mean to say that our relationship is conditional; I am speaking of the enjoyment of it. We are all sons of God by faith in Christ Jesus, and God said of old, "Let my son go, that he may serve me". But if we rightly appreciate God's grace that has given us sonship, we shall delight, as we think of the greatness of the God who has marked us out beforehand for adoption by Jesus Christ to Himself, to hold ourselves, as bondmen of God. It is an immense privilege to be the bondmen and bondwomen of such a God.

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The apostles esteemed it so. The five epistle writers, Paul, Peter, James, Jude and John, each calls himself a bondman; and they give this designation precedence over any other. So we have, "Simon Peter, bondman and apostle of Jesus Christ", and "Paul, bondman of Jesus Christ, a called apostle, separated to God's glad tidings".

Now it is a wonderful thing that the Lord Jesus Himself affords us a great Model on this line, though entirely different from us in the manner of His bondmanship. We were thinking of Him today, as recorded in Philippians 2:6, "who, subsisting in the form of God, did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God". It was evident when He was here that He did not esteem it an object of rapine to assert His equality with God; but it says, He "emptied himself, taking a bondman's form, taking his place in the likeness of men" and then it goes on "having been found in figure as a man". God has great thoughts of dignity connected with man, and the Lord was found here in figure as a man. Headship, kingship, and priesthood belong to man. But being found in figure as a man, He did not, at that time, claim those official positions, though they are His by right, but He "humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, and that the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and granted him a name that which is above every name". We see Him now as the Priest and King, God's anointed. God bears witness to Him as such. But He, in infinite grace, has reached that position by way of bondman service, becoming obedient even unto death and that the death of the cross. He went into depths which the creature could never fathom;

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into sufferings which the creature could never have sustained. What a service He did! Think of His bondman service on earth ending in that way. God made Him to be sin for us. Think of Him being prepared to go that way in obedience, "Him who knew not sin he has made sin for us, that we might become God's righteousness in him", 2 Corinthians 5:21. No wonder God has exalted Him! It is an act of righteousness on God's part to exalt such a One as that. How could God do otherwise? "Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and granted him a name, that which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly and earthly and infernal beings and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to God the Father's glory". How right that is! It is the righteous, moral consequence of His bondman service even unto death, and that the death of the cross.

The taking a bondman's form was His own act. "Once here in the form of a bondman, Thou servedst for wages of love". The Hebrew bondman is a great type. It says, if he came in with his body, he could go out with his body (see footnote to Exodus 21:4, New Translation). But if he said plainly, I love my master, my wife, my children, I will not go out free, then certain consequences were to follow. Thus the Lord Jesus served for wages of love. Love led Him to empty Himself and take a bondman's form; taking His place in the likeness of men to do bondman service; not, at that point, to take up His kingly position, but to do bondman service even unto death, even to the point of being made sin. And so, in His case, it was a matter of His body. He came in with His body, and bondmanship affects our bodies. According to

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Hebrews, as coming into the world He said, "Sacrifice and offering thou willedst not; but thou hast prepared me a body", Hebrews 10:5, or "ears hast thou digged", as it says in the footnote to Psalm 40:6, referring to the Hebrew bondman who would not go out free and whose ear was therefore bored to the doorpost. And then He adds, "Lo, I come ... to do, O God, thy will". That passage shows that His bondman service had in view that He would offer Himself as the antitype of the offerings of old. "Sacrifice and offering thou willedst not ... thou tookest no pleasure in burnt-offerings and sacrifices for sin ... Then said I, Lo, I come". The offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all, in all that that meant to Him, was the amazing extent to which His bondman service went. He came in with His body and He surrendered His body in the offering of it to God. So that when it says, "I have completed the work which thou gavest me that I should do it", you can see how that work centred, as it were, in the altar of burnt-offering. I am not excluding all that He did in His path of service here, but the great climax was there. The great work He came to do involved the offering of Himself.

All this bears on us, dear brethren, as to our bodies. Bondmanship is a matter of the body and it raises the question as to what we are doing with our bodies. Romans 6 shows how we become bondmen of God. We are bondmen on different terms from the Lord Jesus; we are bondmen because we have been bought, "Do ye not know ... ye are not your own? for ye have been bought with a price, glorify now then God in your body", 1 Corinthians 6:20. What are we doing with our bodies? If a man buys a slave, he wants the

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use of that man's body. I would address myself to all my fellow-bondmen and bondwomen, What are we doing with our bodies? How are we using them, how are we adorning them? Are we living on this principle that we are not our own, we are bought with a price? And what a price! The price paid by the One who has marked out the path of bondmanship for us! What a price He paid! The word therefore is, glorify now then God in your body. It is your body that God wants. Man was created in God's image and glory. "Whose is this image and superscription?" the Lord says, as regards the denarius. "They say to him, Caesar's". But man was created in God's image and glory. We are to render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, because God has set up Caesar; we are to understand how far Caesar has rights over our bodies. Chapter 12 of Romans, which sets out God's rights over the believer, comes before chapter 13, which speaks of Caesar's rights. And so does chapter 6. In chapter 6 we become bondmen to God. Chapter 12 shows that if we become bondmen we shall have something to present to God as priests. We are priests because we have the Spirit; but I am referring to the practical matter of having something to present in a priestly way. Romans 6 shows how we become bondmen, it is a detailed exercise. We yield ourselves to God, as alive from amongst the dead, and our members instruments of righteousness to God; that is, we have got to think of our bodies member by member. With some of us certain members get out of control, and, with other people, other members get out of control. But in Romans 6 the body is yielded to God, not exactly as a body, but member by member. Thus we become bondmen

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to righteousness, as it says, and finally, bondmen to God. God does not expect results like this until His grace has been proved. In Romans 5 we have access by faith into this favour in which we stand and we boast in hope of the glory of God. We also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. And what is the answer? Our members are yielded to God. But then, if our members are yielded, so that we become bondmen of God according to Romans 6, we are able to serve as priests in Romans 12. "I beseech you ... brethren, by the compassions of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your intelligent service". The word 'service' there is not bondman service but priestly service. We have a body to present to God as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable. How has it come about? Through accepting bondmanship. J.T. used to tell us that the Hebrew bondman of Exodus 21, viewed as a type of Christ, becomes the high priest of Exodus 28. It is the way of practical qualification for priesthood. So it raises the whole question of our bodies; how we are holding them, how we are clothing them, how we are using them. Man as God's image and glory, 1 Corinthians 11:7, is responsible to express God. Are there any features of the world about us? We need divine adornment if we are to represent God. The ornament of a meek and quiet spirit is, in the sight of God, of great price.

This matter, therefore, affects not only brothers but sisters. All are involved in it. That is how the testimony began in Acts 2. Peter, explaining what had happened, says, "upon my bondmen and upon my bondwomen in those days will I pour out of my Spirit, and they shall prophesy", Acts 2:18. I am

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reading this scripture to show that we come into the gain of the anointing by way of bondmanship. You may say, I wish I had more joy in the Holy Spirit; I wish I were used more by the Spirit in prophecy and praise, and were better fitted to stand here for God in testimony in a kingly way. All those things are connected with the anointing, the prophet, priest and king. You wish you were more in those things? Then look to your bondmanship. Peter speaks of it from the side of grace first, "your sons and your daughters". Does it not touch our hearts that God has poured out of His Spirit upon our sons and our daughters? But from His side, the persons He commits Himself to are His bondmen and His bondwomen. You may say, I am sure I have the Spirit. I hope indeed that you have the Spirit, because you are not in things vitally at all without the Spirit. But the anointing is not the initial view of the Spirit. If you look at 1 Corinthians 12:12, 13, the instruction begins with the anointing. "So also is the Christ", 1 Corinthians 12:12, refers to the assembly, the anointed vessel. Then it says, "For also in the power of one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body", verse 13. And again, "and have all been given to drink of one Spirit". Things are presented thus from the divine side, but, on our side, we come into the gain of the Spirit the other way. We have to learn to drink of one Spirit, to open our inwards to the Spirit, as the Lord says, "Every one who drinks of this water shall thirst again; but whosoever drinks of the water which I shall give him shall never thirst for ever". As we open our inwards to the Spirit, we find we are carried along in the current, immersed, and thus in the gain of having been baptised in one

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Spirit into one body. We find ourselves moving along with the brethren in the great current. This makes way for the grace of the anointing to be upon us and we find we are being used by the Spirit in public service and testimony. That is the way of it on our side. But it begins, as to our state, with our being bondmen and bondwomen. "Upon my bondmen and upon my bondwomen in those days will I pour out of my Spirit, and they shall prophesy".

Now the first great result of being a bondman or a bondwoman is that you prophesy. I am not referring to the gift of prophecy; there were prophets and prophetesses in Scripture; but I am referring to the fact that the saints as a whole, if they are in the gain of the Spirit, have the mind of God. We belong to the prophetic, anointed vessel, the Christ. And so Paul says, "ye can all prophesy one by one". He also says, we have the mind of Christ. The Corinthians ought to have had it, they had it potentially in the Spirit, but they were not in the gain of the Spirit because they had not accepted bondmanship. It is to them he says, "Do ye not know ... ye are not your own? for ye have been bought with a price: glorify now then God in your body". They were using their bodies wrongly, were grieving the Holy Spirit, and therefore had not, in a practical way, the mind of Christ. But if you have the mind of Christ, you are thinking the thoughts of God, and you can speak of the things of God. And that is what the company in Acts 2 were doing. Men and women were speaking the great things of God. Men and women had the mind of God. The women would be acting in a comely way; they would be speaking normally, no doubt, to other women, although the woman of

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John 4 spoke to the men. But the point is "my bondmen and my bondwomen" were there in Acts 2 and they were prophesying: they had the mind of God. Who does God give His mind to? His bondmen and His bondwomen. How are you using your body? Have you accepted bondmanship? Paul had. He said "I bear in my body the brands of the Lord Jesus", Galatians 6:17. Not many of us could say that. But he gloried in it. He had the marks of the stripes he had borne and he viewed them as the brands of Christ's happy slave, which he loved to be. He said, "For the rest let no one trouble me". He as much as said, No one can question the reality of my Christianity, "I bear in my body the brands of the Lord Jesus". In some degree, you know, there should be that about each of us which marks us off as Christ's happy slaves. Do the people at your office or in the factory or the school, know that you are Christ's happy slave, and that you would not be anything else for a thousand worlds? That is what they ought to know. You bear the mark of it in your body. If I am clothing myself according to the latest fashion, I am not bearing in my body the brands of the Lord Jesus, I pass muster in the world. This is a practical matter. For if you are not prepared for bondmanship, God will never trust you. God never trusts a man who trusts himself, but He also never trusts a man who is not committed in bondmanship. To His bondman He will disclose His mind. So that if you are a bondman you will become a prophet in this sense that you will have the mind of God; and that is one of the greatest things you could possibly aspire to, to have the mind of God -- to know God, to know His thoughts, to know His will. I speak to the young people here.

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Would you not like to know God and to know His thoughts and to understand His will? Then take up your privilege of being happy slaves of Jesus Christ, bondmen of God. "If I were yet pleasing men", the apostle says, "I were not Christ's bondman", Galatians 1:10. Give up the idea of pleasing men. O, the bondage, the misery of it! It stands in the way of your spiritual progress. Be a bondman of Jesus Christ, His happy slave -- now to please but One. If the young people take this up, they will get on well spiritually. We want the young men and women to get on well. God has committed Himself to us and He counts upon us to commit ourselves to Him. It is the only right thing to do because we have been bought with a price. We are not our own; do not let us think we are our own, think of the price that has been paid. Let brothers and sisters understand that it is their privilege to have the mind of God. God will trust you with His mind if you are trustworthy, and that depends on being a true bondman or bondwoman. So in Revelation 10:7 it speaks of the mystery of God being completed "as he has made known the glad tidings to his own bondmen the prophets". He makes known His deepest secrets, the mystery of God to His own bondmen. And that brings us to the point of friendship.

We read the word in John's epistle, "The friends greet thee. Greet the friends by name". This is not a fellowship within a fellowship, it does not mean special friendships in that sense; but it is a challenge as to whether we are truly in fellowship at the present time, because, if we are, we shall be among the friends. How do we qualify for friendship? The Lord says, "Ye are my friends if ye practise whatever I

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command you". Now such a person is a bondman; a bondman is a man who does whatever he is told to do. He is not pleasing men, he is pleasing Christ, "Ye are my friends if ye practise whatever I command you". Then He says, "I call you no longer bondmen". The moment you become a true bondman of Christ and are prepared to do whatever He commands you in all your habits of life and service, He will say, "I call you no longer bondmen ... but I have called you friends, for all things which I have heard of my Father I have made known to you". He will hold nothing back but will disclose every secret. The idea of friend in Scripture is a bosom friend. John was in the bosom of Jesus. He is the great example of a friend. The secrets of the bosom are known to such. And we are to understand who the friends are. I can tell you who the friends are. They are those who are committed to the Lord in bondmanship. They become distinguished, as Paul says of one, "the beloved brother and faithful minister and fellow bondman in the Lord", Colossians 4:7, and he names him. "The friends greet thee. Greet the friends by name". The whole fellowship in these last days should come into this. There is no thought of anyone being outside of it, but you may be outside of it, because if you are not truly a bondman you cannot be a friend. You are outside of divine secrets.

There are great secrets to be communicated. Think of the secret made known to Daniel. He and his friends were men who held their bodies for God. Nebuchadnezzar said of them that they yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any God except their own God. They were bondmen. But see how wonderfully they were let into the secret

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of God's ways in government. If you want to know the secret of God's ways in government you must be a bondman and thus become a friend like Abraham, the friend of God. What an obedient man Abraham was! When he was called he obeyed and he commanded his household after him. God trusted that man. He said, Shall I hide from Abraham what I am doing? The friends have intelligence as to God's ways in government. But then God has greater things than His ways in government, and that is the mystery, the greatest of all secrets. But the friends of this dispensation understand that. Would you not like to qualify to be among the friends? I like to look round upon the friends, those who know, in some measure, the truth of the mystery, and who understand God's ways in government. These are the two great secrets at the present time. The friends know them and become distinguished in that way. They are known by name. Let us come into this circle of the friends. It says "the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets", Amos 3:7.

While prophecy is the first thing mentioned as to the bondmen and bondwomen in Acts 2, the fact is that, if we are prophets as having the mind of God, we shall be qualified to serve as priests. The gift of the Spirit constitutes us priests, but I am speaking about coming into the service practically. You cannot be a priest intelligently, unless you are a prophet. That is, you need the mind of God if you are to praise and pray aright. How can you praise God intelligently without knowing His mind and will? And how can you pray aright without knowing God's mind and will? The first thing, you see, is to be a

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bondman; then you will come into the mind of God, you will be among the friends; and thus you will be qualified for your priestly office. The anointing has in view that you should function as a priest and this is the way of qualification. And so it says of Abraham "for he is a prophet, and will pray for thee", Genesis 20:7. Who knows how to pray? The prophet. It is the brother or sister who has the mind of God who knows how to pray. I believe the reference to Abraham is the first mention of a prophet in Scripture. He had not the gift of prophecy, but he was a prophet because he had the mind of God. God had not hidden from Abraham what He was doing. He was the friend of God and had the mind of God, and God says "for he is a prophet, and will pray for thee". A prophet knows both how to pray and how to praise because he has the mind of God. So you can see how, on this line, we are fitted for the great office conferred upon us as priests of God and of the Christ. We know how to pray and how to praise, and that prepares us for our place in kingship. It says in Revelation 5:9, "And they sing a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book and to open its seals; because thou hast been slain, and hast redeemed to God, by thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation, and made them to our God kings and priests". It is by way of bondmanship and by way of having the mind of God, that we can serve acceptably as priests and represent God as kings. The elders in Revelation are distinguished all through as having the mind of God, and they are seen on thrones, round the throne, and on their heads golden crowns. They are kings and priests to God. Each of them has "a harp and golden bowl full of

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incenses, which are the prayers of the saints", Revelation 4:4; Revelation 5:8.

But what is in mind is what we are now in a priestly and kingly way. We are a kingly priesthood and, as such, we are not only to serve God intelligently in prayer and praise, but to represent Him, as manifesting the true features of royalty, in our testimony in this world. We have a higher calling and greater power in the Spirit than the power that God has delegated to the authorities in this world. They are set up by God and we are to recognise what rightly belongs to Caesar, but we are above all to recognise what belongs to God; and the God we represent is the God who gives strength to His people. Daniel says, wisdom and might are His; and He gives us might, in the Spirit, to represent Him in a kingly way down here.

But in Revelation 22:3 - 5 we have the culmination. It says, "the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him". The word 'servants' is 'bondmen' (see footnote). Think of the way bondmanship is carried through into the heavenly city! We cannot even say that the Lord Himself does not still take on bondman service at times. It says in Luke 12:37 "that he will gird himself ... and coming up will serve them". The word 'service' there is a different word but the girding Himself shows what the glorified Lord would do in love for His own. But then, as to the saints, it is evident that bondmanship is carried through into the heavenly city. His bondmen shall serve Him. The word 'serve' there is priestly service. His bondmen shall serve Him as priests. I believe the idea of God as God necessitates the thought of bondmen being carried right through.

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When we think of God as God, in His majesty and greatness, then, whatever relationship He brings us into, even sonship in the most blessed way, and whatever dignity He confers upon us as kings and priests, what place could we take but that of bondmen? And so "his bondmen shall serve him and they shall see his face; and his name is on their foreheads". That is the mark of the bondmen. Let His name be on our foreheads now, let us move about in this world, having the evidence upon us of divine ownership, the evidence that we are the happy slaves of Jesus Christ and of God. Then we shall have liberty to serve Him now as priests; His bondmen will serve Him, and they will see His face. You would like to see His face? These are the people who see His face! And it goes on to say "they shall reign to the ages of ages". The bondmen are both priests and kings, but they are still bondmen, they love to be, they love to recognise God's complete rights over them.

So I come back for a moment to chapter 19. A voice came out of the throne in verse 5, and I believe it is the voice to us tonight, the voice from the throne. There is much about the throne in Revelation. It stands related to the temple in this book. Isaiah saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple, and one seraphim called to the other saying, "Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!" And here there is a voice out of the throne. Are not you going to obey the voice from the throne? A voice came out of the throne, saying "Praise our God, all ye his bondmen". I look round this hall tonight, and I address my brethren in this way, "all ye his bondmen".

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You have been bought with a price, you are not your own, and the throne is speaking to you, and what is it saying? "Praise our God, all ye his bondmen, and ye that fear him, small and great". Soon the beast is coming and it says of him that both small and great have to have his mark upon their forehead or upon their hand. Thank God it is God's mark that is upon us. Let it be so, dear brethren; let us have in our body, in some way, the indication of divine ownership; let His mark be upon us. And if we really surrender to God in this way as bondmen, there will be no lack of praise. We shall understand the throne, we shall understand the thoughts of God and we shall respond at once to this voice, "Praise our God, all ye his bondmen, and ye that fear him, small and great". Who would not be in this note of praise? There is an immediate response: "And I heard as a voice of a great crowd, and as a voice of many waters, and as a voice of strong thunders, saying, Hallelujah". Four hallelujahs occur in this passage. Hallelujah, though a hackneyed term in Christendom, is one of the greatest notes of praise. Praise ye Jah, the great self-existent God! It is praise to God, God as God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For this title applies to Jesus. The first three verses of John's gospel assert who He is; He is the great self-existent One. He always was, and all things began to be through Him. He is Jah, the great I AM. I AM is His own assertion of it, our answer is, "Praise ye Jah". How wonderful to hail the Saviour in this way. Jesus our Saviour is the great self-existent One, co-equal with the Father and with the Holy Spirit. And we would say tonight, "Praise our God, all ye his bondmen". And there is the answer, "Hallelujah, for the Lord our God the

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Almighty has taken to himself kingly power. Let us rejoice and exult, and give him glory; for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife has made herself ready" -- the great consummation of the mystery.

May we all be caught up in this note of praise tonight. I would say again, "Praise our God all ye his bondmen". I call upon my brethren, and myself more than any, to be true in this matter of bondmanship. May the Lord help us for His Name's sake.