Ques. You were here when we spoke of Hebrews following Luke: perhaps you would help us at the beginning of this epistle?
C.A.C. It was thought that Luke presented what was of priestly character, the Lord being carried to heaven in priestly attitude. This epistle follows suitably on that; it presents the Lord to us definitely as in heaven, and as exercising priesthood there, the thought being that the service of God is sustained according to divine pleasure.
Ques. Is the thought that in the measure in which God's speaking becomes effective, in the same measure there is response Godward?
C.A.C. That is the key to this epistle; the service takes character from the speaking. It was so in the service of the tabernacle; this epistle is built up on the model of the tabernacle service. The first thing that God had in mind in setting up the tabernacle system was that there should be a place from which He could speak -- the mercy-seat. The whole service was ordered from the divine speaking, and God would speak from a spot that set Him free. The speaking in Exodus was from the mercy-seat, and the service was regulated and took character from the divine speaking. It is so now, the speaking being of the highest character and connected with the thought of the Son, which is the highest thought. The service must have an elevation and character that corresponds with it.
Ques. If the speaking is in Son, only those brought into sonship can understand it. If that is understood, is priestly service taken up in the enjoyment of sonship?
C.A.C. Yes. We find that priesthood, even in Christ, is dependent on His Sonship. We read in Hebrews 5, "Thou art my Son", and then, "Thou art a priest", shewing that priesthood according to divine pleasure is only taken up in sonship, as the thought of God's delight enters into it. The thought of a Son in relation to God is very precious. The great thought that has come before the blessed God is an Object of delight and satisfaction.
Ques. In the covenant we read, "I will be to them for God, and they shall be to me for people" (chapter 8: 10), but in this chapter we have, "I will be to him for father, and he shall be to me for son". Is that not much higher?
C.A.C. Yes, I think it is, though the two are intimately connected. When Israel was to be brought into the blessing of the new covenant it is said, "In the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, it shall be said unto them, Sons of the living God", Hosea 1:10. That shows that in connection with the covenant God has a great thought of sonship in His mind. In Deuteronomy Moses addresses the people as "sons of Jehovah your God", shewing that when God introduced the thought of the covenant to His people they were not to stop short of what was in His mind -- sonship. So today the covenant comes in in connection with what is the cherished delight of God's heart; He has one Object before Him to fill His heart with satisfaction, and in which His love has found full delight; that is the thought in the Son. That becomes the standard, it is the measure of what is in the heart of God.
Ques. Is there any difference between sonship for Israel and for us?
C.A.C. They came into sonship as a people on earth; we
come into sonship in what takes character from Christ in heaven. The blessing in Hebrews takes on a heavenly character. The blessing known by the saints today goes far beyond the covenant that will be known to Israel. He is bringing many sons to glory now; that is, they are being brought to the consummation of all that is in the heart of God.
Rem. The more we enter into it the more response there would be to it.
C.A.C. Yes, I am sure of that. God is the Speaker; we should ever keep that before us. The end in view is that we should be brought to God, brought to the blessedness that is in God Himself.
Ques. Would sonship be more for God Himself, although we get the joy of it?
C.A.C. Yes. Sonship is for God, and the inheritance is for the sons. Hebrews helps much because it gives intelligence in the thoughts and ways of God. The idea of sonship is that we have intelligent capacity to enter into things of interest to God; that is the great thought in being brought into sonship. God is pleased, not in our telling Him we are sons, but in our being able to speak to Him in a way that shows we are sons. The spirit of sonship does not occupy us with itself; the spirit of sonship cries, "Abba, Father". That is, the blessedness of God known in love and in conscious relationship is before the soul. We are not just to be occupied with the dignity of it but with the blessedness of it. What was the prodigal occupied with inside the father's house? We are to enter into what the Father is and what is delightful to the Father. It is a great matter to any earthly father to have his son enter into his thoughts, purposes and delights; that is the thought of sonship. As sons we enter into those things which are pleasurable to God, and we rejoice in Him. "Abba, Father" is an adoring utterance -- we think of the blessedness
into which we are brought, and we enjoy it affectionately, so there is the rapturous expression of that in the cry, "Abba, Father". That is what the Father delights in.
God is speaking in Son, so the speaking comes from the centre of God's delight and love.
Ques. Can it be fully expressed in human language?
C.A.C. I do not suppose it can. As far as we are concerned sonship is only taken up in the Spirit. It is not what we have heard, or even what is in Scripture, but the ability to take up in the power of the Holy Spirit the relationship in which we are filled adoringly. There is a glorious Person introduced to us here, and that gives the spirit of worship.
God is giving expression to Himself and His own thoughts in such a way that they are not limited by the vessel that conveys them. There would be a limitation in what God made known to Moses, but there is no limitation in God speaking in Son. Everything can come out that it is possible for the creature to know. A great deal has come into expression which is beyond the power of the creature to apprehend.
These opening verses of the epistle are to give us a very great thought of the Son, the immense glory that attaches to Him.
Ques. In verse 4 it speaks of a more excellent name. Is that 'The Son'?
C.A.C. Yes, that is an inherited name. As soon as He was born He inherited every title that belongs to the Messiah; and among those titles was the glorious name of Son.
In the first few verses He is representative of God; the first thing said of Him is that God has established Him Heir of all things; He is competent to take up all things as God's representative, as succeeding to all the rights of God. Being Heir of all things suggests a great thought of wealth, and shews the immense value that He is going to
confer on all, so they become the portion of the Son assigned to Him by God, that which will constitute His property and wealth eternally. All being committed to the hands of the Son to effectuate heirship goes along with sonship. We talk more of sonship, but I do not know why we should, for they go together. The thought of heirship in Christ goes along with His sonship. He is Son and He is Heir; we come in as joint-heirs. As sons we should be greatly interested in the inheritance; we should be interested in what love has assigned to us. What a beautiful character it has! All is made suitable to be the inheritance of the Son, without a defect or a blemish but a universe of bliss! The inheritance will be relieved of all that has come into it to spoil it for the divine pleasure. The thought of the Son being introduced as Heir of all things shews what a character the blessed God is going to give to the universe; He introduces the greatest thoughts of His love. Taking that up intelligently belongs to the service of God in the assembly, it is part of it. We should look at these things that are spoken of in connection with the Son as matters we have to take up affectionately and intelligently so as to be able to speak of them reverently and becomingly to God for His pleasure; it enters into the service of the assembly. I am afraid our worship often is in a restricted area, but God would not have it to be so. Think of the greatness of it! To be able to speak to God of His great thoughts in connection with His Son!
Ques. What about "the effulgence of his glory and the expression of his substance"?
C.A.C. It shews everything takes up the glory of God -- His effulgence in the Son. He is the effulgence of His glory and the expression of His substance. It does not follow we can take it all in. There is a great deal expressed mediatorially in the Son that is beyond creature power to apprehend. In the end of Revelation we find He has a
Name and it is written, but no one knows it. There is the expression in the Son of all that belongs to the glory of God; it pleased God to set it forth mediatorially, but a good deal that is set forth mediatorially is beyond the compass of the creature. "The Son" is a mediatorial title, but we are told that no one knows the Son but the Father. By the Son God made the worlds. Creation was a mediatorial action, but it is inscrutable; we know nothing about creation; it belongs to God. We see the product but we cannot understand the power that made creation. Creation has a mediatorial character. In creation the Son was the Actor, one Person in the Deity was acting on behalf of the Others. The Word was with God, a distinct Personality. In creation the Son was the acting Representative on behalf of God. He could not have created if He had not been God. He was with God, He was God. All received being through Him; all belonged to His mediatorial glory. As this enters into our souls spiritually, worship is produced. Faith understands, though it is inscrutable. The Son is inscrutable; the sense of that is essential to worship. When we think of the Son there are no limitations; what comes into the mediatorial creation is without limit. The effulgence of His glory, the expression of His substance -- His substance and Being are expressed in the Son. As creatures we have limitations, but there are no limitations in the Son; the effulgence of divine glory is there, and there is not a ray of divine glory that is not there. What an elevation this gives to the worship of the assembly! All this is brought before us to prepare us for the worship of God in the assembly! We do not leave out of the service of the assembly the praise of God as Creator; that belongs to the assembly. The only assembly prayer recorded is one that belongs to creation (Acts 4).
That He is going to be Heir gives an idea of what is going to be the inheritance of this great and glorious Person. We
obtain an inheritance with Him; we are to be joint-heirs with Christ; that is what belongs to children and sons. Paul says, 'If you are children you are joint-heirs with Christ' (Romans 8:17). If we were interested in sonship we should like to know the assigned portion. I think our stature as sons is largely determined by the way we enter into the inheritance.
Ques. Why is the purification of sins brought in?
C.A.C. It is to assure our hearts that all this mediatorial glory that belongs to the Son stands in relation to a condition of things marked by sin. He has made purification of sins for the satisfaction of God in this chapter, not for the relief of sin. "Having made by himself the purification of sins". It is effected. If God is free His people may well be free.
Ques. Does God speak from above the mercy-seat?
C.A.C. Yes, it is God as known in relation to a system of things where the question of good and evil has been raised. Before the fall God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life into the garden of Eden. God has been made known to us; we serve and worship God who has spoken in Son, but He has spoken in relation to an order of things where this question of good and evil has been raised -- our worship largely takes account of that.
Ques. What is the meaning of the word 'mediatorial'?
C.A.C. It is the way in which God has been pleased to work so that even in creation one Person in the Godhead has acted on behalf of the Godhead. The idea of one person acting on behalf of others is mediatorial. "God is one, and the mediator of God and men one, the man Christ Jesus", 1 Timothy 2:5. It has pleased God to approach men in grace in the Mediator. God does not put Himself directly in contact with men; He has a Mediator; and there is a Mediator too of the new covenant.
Rem. All that we are brought into in relation with God
mediatorially stands in contrast with what divine Persons enjoy in Themselves.
C.A.C. That is so. The relations which subsist between divine Persons as such are not revealed, but there are some that are. Our knowledge of divine Persons depends on what is revealed. This system has the glory of God in it, and our worship depends on our being intelligent in this great system.
Ques. Would an ambassador convey the thought of a mediator?
C.A.C. An ambassador does not sufficiently convey the greatness and dignity of the person. If you could fancy the king himself becoming an ambassador it might convey the thought.
Ques. Does the Lord have this place eternally?
C.A.C. Surely. Then we have, "Upholding all things by the word of his power". How inscrutable it is! All these things are introduced, not merely informally or even lightly, but for worship in the assembly. We worship in the light of them; we shew we are sons by our ability to apprehend and speak to God about these things. How wonderful to speak to God about His great thoughts and His things which are all substantiated in the Son! The best specimen of sonship in the Bible is seen in Ephesians 3. We see a man there who is speaking to the Father, and who has an astonishing acquaintance with all that is delightful to the Father. If we want to know sonship we should listen to Paul and see how he speaks to the Father: he speaks in spiritual intelligence of all that is delightful to the Father.
Ques. Would John 17 be an example of sonship?
C.A.C. Yes. I did not refer to that because I was thinking of sonship as we see it. The highest expression of sonship is the Lord's prayer in John 17, where the Son speaks to the Father in the simplest way in holy intimacy. How delightful to the Father must have been every word
of that prayer, and how truly the Father could say, "My beloved Son"!
Ques. There is no epistle where the Spirit of God calls such attention to the glory of Christ as Hebrews. We are told to consider Him. Is He presented personally here so that we may learn the grandeur of the christian position?
C.A.C. Yes, the primary object of the epistle is to deliver Hebrew believers entirely from the old religious associations.
"Crowned with glory and honour" is connected with Christ's exaltation: the whole position depends on the fact of His being at the right hand of God. The point of His being "crowned with glory and honour" is that it is a peculiar moment now between His establishing His moral title and having the inheritance. Faith enters into it now. Personally He is at the right hand of God; it is there that we view Him, but the point is not where we see Him, but how we see Him. We see Him in all the glory and holy splendour of the moral title which He has established through death. There is nothing more wonderful in the history of eternity than this parenthesis between the cross and the glory. His title to everything is established, though possession is not entered on, but we see Him crowned with glory and honour. God has crowned Him; God has done it to Him as Son of Man. Christ has come in as Son of Man to inherit all that is in the thought of God for man. All has come to light as to the Person to whom the world to come is to be in subjection. The peculiarity of this moment is that things are not subjected, but everything has come to light in regard to the Person. It is interwoven with the whole
teaching of the epistle that He is at the right hand of God, but the point is here, How do we see Him? not, Where do we see Him? It is a great thing for us to apprehend the title of the Son of Man. He has moral title to have everything subjected to Him because He has tasted death -- no angel could -- and the grace of God has come out in the universe through His tasting death for everything. There was a moral blot, a stain in the universe, and One has come to remove it; and the Person who could remove the moral stain is entitled to be in the place of supremacy. That is His glory.
In this particular passage, we are considering the death of Christ in its widest bearing: He tasted death for everything. Man had brought in a moral stain on everything. How could God take up a stained inheritance? How could He set up His own order in the universe while that stain was there? So the Son of Man came in to remove that stain by going into death.
Now something appears that did not appear in creation. The grace of God did not appear in creation, but it does appear in the death of Christ. If something came in displeasing to God, it must be removed either in grace or in judgment; if in grace, what God is in His nature comes to light. The death of Christ is infinitely great because it has provided an outlet for all that there was in the blessed God to come out in His universe that had been stained by sin. It is an immense thing to be in the light of a Person who could do all that. We are in the light of the glory of the Son of Man. The power to do it was always in His Person, but now it has come to light.
There are two aspects in which the Lord is pre-eminent in this scripture, a very wide aspect in relation to all things, and a more limited aspect in relation to a sanctified company whom He is not ashamed to call His brethren. We get the wide aspect of His death, when He tasted death
for everything; as Lamb of God He is the Taker away of the sin of the world (John 1). He died to remove all the stain from God's universe which will all be subjected to Him. He is morally entitled to have the supreme place. It puts you in touch with an immense sphere of things.
Ques. Is it that He has won all this glory and now He wants companions?
C.A.C. Yes. God is doing everything on moral grounds. The place the Son of Man will take is not only due to Him according to the greatness of His Person, but it is due to Him on account of all that He has done. God is bringing many sons to glory through a path of sufferings. You would not want a leader perfect through sufferings if you were not going to move along a path of sufferings.
Ques. What does His being made perfect mean?
C.A.C. That He is qualified in every way to lead.
Ques. Is the position of sanctified ones given to those who do not suffer?
C.A.C. I am sure the sanctified ones do suffer. The point is that there was nothing here for Christ but suffering. The sons are Christ's brethren morally; that is, they have the same character. It is not here the thought of companions but brethren. What God is doing is bringing many sons to glory along the road of suffering. If they are Christ's brethren they are like Him morally. When He was on earth He looked around on people and owned them as His brethren; it was because they were morally like Him, that is, they heard the word of God, and they did the will of God. You cannot go along that line without coming in for sufferings at once, but we have a Leader in it who has experienced every kind of suffering that can come upon His brethren. He is perfect as Leader; He understands every bit of suffering they can come through. We have all the long list of persecutions, and the register of the sufferings of God's servants going on for centuries; then
Christ came into the same line of sufferings, and the cross was in keeping with it all. The sufferings were meted out to His own after, and each has a share. No saint is great enough to have the whole path of sufferings, but the whole path is known to Him; every detail that could come upon any saint who is set for God in this world came upon Him.
In verse 14 we see that He went into death to dispossess Satan of a certain right which he possessed over the children. It is not so much what the devil does to people generally, but to the children. The children were those who were kindred with Christ; He had a household when here on earth, no natural household. He was not Head of a natural household but of a spiritual household. They are delivered now; it is not the portion of children to fear. When we think of death now, we do not think of it as a dread power -- the judgment of God -- we do not think of it as caused by the power of Satan, but we think of it as the place where Jesus went.
C.A.C. "I and the children which God has given me".
Rem. It has been said that God desires creature companions.
C.A.C. It is right in principle that God has desired to have a creature who could walk with Him and with whom He could walk. God has sought a family. The Man who was Jehovah's Fellow now has fellows, but it would be blasphemy to say we were God's fellows. God walked in the garden, and in that sense man might have been a companion of God if he had remained in the state suited to his creation, but he left it.
Rem. Many dread death who are real believers.
C.A.C. I think no believer who has peace with God has the fear of death in the sense of this scripture. Every one fears death naturally, but this is a moral fear. The devil had the right of death and used it as a reign of terror. The
more man feared God, the more he feared death. Now when you think of death you do not think of the devil's power, but that Jesus has been there. I remember there was a time when I had to contemplate death, and I well remember the exercise of it; then the thought came to me as a burst of sunshine, that whatever death was, Jesus had been there! When you think of death as where Jesus has been the fear is gone.
Ques. Does my death testify to the power of the devil?
C.A.C. I should not like to think the death of a christian testified to that. It is the fact that it is the judgment of God that made it such a tyranny in the hands of the devil; he could use it over man's conscience, but now that Jesus has been there it is different. "Christ has died and lived again, that he might rule over both dead and living", Romans 14
9. So you reach the domain of death and find in actual supremacy there -- JESUS. If we were to pass into the domain of death tonight, we should find Jesus absolutely supreme on this side and on the other side; so that He can succour the saint on this side, in the moment of nature's absolute weakness, and He is supreme on that side too. Death came in by sin, but something else came in by the love of God.
Ques. These words, "Let us go on to what belongs to full growth", would appear to be wonderful grace! What is your thought as to the word "us"?
C.A.C. I think it means you and me, if we get the good of it! There is no scripture in the New Testament more stimulating to movement than this. The whole epistle is
not just exhortation; it is stimulation, what is calculated to stimulate the souls of God's people. The epistle is marked by movement and incitement to movement.
The Lord is spoken of remarkably as the Forerunner. There is active movement with the Lord Himself; He is not only a Leader but a Runner. That in itself incites us to active movement. The Hebrews were to be in movement, not sluggish. Our tendency is to be sluggish, and this epistle is to stimulate us to mend our pace.
Ques. In running is He the Leader?
C.A.C. It is remarkable that He is spoken of as running to the new position. I do not know of any other scripture that presents Him as running into the new position that is taken up. The Lord is running to the new position; He is the Forerunner in this chapter.
Ques. What do you mean by the new position?
C.A.C. It is a new position to what He occupied as Messiah. There is the suggestion that He ran into it, which is very striking. It is put that way because it is essential that we run too.
Ques. Is there necessary power to enable us to run?
C.A.C. It is a stimulant; exhortation is in view of some movement on the part of saints. It says that the words of the wise are like goads; they stick into you to make you move faster. All these expressions are in the nature of exhortations. We read, "Bear the word of exhortation". The whole of this epistle is full of the thought of movement. We get it first in the Lord and then on the part of those following.
Rem. It is as an incentive for us to move.
C.A.C. The tendency with us is to cling to earth. We all realise, if we are honest, this tendency in our hearts. This epistle is written to detach us from the earth and to bring us to our true position as partakers of the heavenly calling.
Ques. In verse 11 we are each to have the same diligence?
C.A.C. That is the point. There were some who were going back; they had professed Jesus as the Messiah but they were going back. There is a tendency with us all to be sluggish in movement and to become dull of hearing, so this epistle comes as a remarkable stimulant for spiritual movement.
There were certain ones of whom the writer had confidence that they were partakers of the heavenly calling. They were going through and the great thing is to make sure that we are amongst them, that we are not sluggish and dull of hearing; we are all in danger of that. The Jewish system was there and was going on in its details and there was a great attraction about it; so the writer of the epistle was seeking to bring in a greater attraction. He shows them that what we have now is far greater than judaism. Christendom has gone back to judaism, so this epistle is very useful to us.
Ques. What is in your mind as to running?
C.A.C. It is only in that way we reach the new position. We have to run and flee into what is within the veil -- we "have fled for refuge". Judgment is coming on the earthly system and those who want to escape must flee to the city of refuge. We must flee to what is within the veil -- to what is heavenly. The only refuge there is now is the heavenly order of things.
Ques. Did Caleb and Joshua run to what was better?
C.A.C. Yes; they were in line with the purpose of God. This chapter is to bring us into line with the purposes and faithfulness of God.
Ques. What does the apostle mean by "leaving the word of the beginning of the Christ"?
C.A.C. It means leaving the principles that belonged to the babe state. The people of God were under judaism, in
unfaithful conditions. It says in Galatians that a child is under tutors and governors whilst he is a child, so he is in bondage. Judaism is bondage. Chapter 9 gives us a system of things consisting of "meats and drinks and divers washings, ordinances of flesh, imposed until the time of setting things right" (verse 10). All these things were only there until the time of setting things right. In christianity things are set right, not in judaism. Although in judaism there were certain elementary truths, yet they do not represent the mind of God. Let us leave what belongs to the babe state and go on to what is manhood. Christianity is manhood.
Ques. Were these things set aside?
C.A.C. They have to be regarded in their spiritual meaning. All ordinances had a spiritual meaning; they belonged to the earthly system. All through the Old Testament Christ was in view. Whatever there was of God was elementary; it did not give the full thought of God. Now we come to the full thought -- to perfection. The purpose of God comes clearly into view in Christ. He entered as Forerunner for us, not exactly as representing us there but as representing the purpose of God for us. Later in the epistle He represents us.
Ques. Is "full-grown" what is set forth in Christ?
C.A.C. The apprehension of it on the part of the saints constitutes full growth. What is connected with Melchisedec has to do with the heavenly side. Christ in heaven answers to Melchisedec.
Ques. Would Abraham's being linked with Melchisedec suggest that Melchisedec has to say to those who are heavenly in character?
C.A.C. He was king of Salem. It is remarkable that there should be such a king in Abraham's day; Salem represents what is heavenly.
The Lord is seen as Priest on moral grounds in Hebrews 5. He gets His place with us on moral grounds first. At the
end of chapter 6 He is Priest in relation to the purpose of God: that is another side altogether.
Ques. Is it the resurrection side?
C.A.C. It is the heavenly side. To come under Him as Priest we have to know Him on moral grounds first. The writer speaks of the intensity of the Lord's sufferings to secure a place with us on moral grounds. Melchisedec is a king of peace -- there is moral character. The thought of corning into obedience to Him in chapter 5 is very touching; it implies that He takes us by the hand according to chapter 2. If we feel how intensely He suffered, it gives Him a place with us; we let Him take us by the hand. We are only in salvation as we let Him take our hand. He gets thus a place in our affections; it is as Priest He gets a place there. It is a great thing to know Him as Priest. He is qualified for priesthood by suffering.
We see One who in taking up sonship has taken up entirely new conditions. He has taken the condition of creature perfection. The Creator has come into the place of the creature, and in doing so He has taken up obedience. I doubt whether the Lord has acquired His place of supremacy with us as Priest. We all know Him as Lord, but to be brought into subjection to Him as Priest is a matter of affection. In coming to the place of sonship as Man He comes to a position marked by obedience and obedience for Him involved suffering. He was made perfect through suffering. There was not an element of obedience He was not tested by; it all cost Him suffering of an intense character. He learned the whole extent of obedience by the suffering it cost Him to go through. In this way He gets a place in our affections. It is not atonement in chapter 5. He is the Author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Priesthood is not the same as lordship. Some of us do not know much about it.
He reaches from the exalted place He is in to lead us past
every pitfall and snare of the wilderness pathway. It is an eternal salvation. He will lead us through every snare and difficulty if we do not take our hands out of His. We must learn Him as Priest on the moral side first. He comes to my side and takes up the path I have to tread; He has been in it more fully than I ever will be and it cost Him intense suffering. The thought of Son runs right through from chapter 5 to chapter 7. The Son learned obedience, and as Son He suffered. If He were not the Son He could not be the Priest. His sonship throws light on His priesthood, and His priesthood throws light on His sonship. Is my hand in His? Peter did not know Him as Priest and he sank in the water. Peter could have said, 'Lord if it be Thou bid me come to Thee on the water and give me Thy hand', and he would not have sunk. When he got the Lord's hand there was no sinking. The feature of priesthood in chapter 2 is the hand. We are often wilful, like a child pulling its hand away from its mother! What we have to see is that the Lord in His love is qualified by obedience and suffering to take us by the hand and lead us past every temptation and difficulty. In learning Christ as Priest our affections become engaged. Many christians recognise the lordship of Christ but to recognise His priesthood and feel your hand is in His every step of the way is fine.
It was evidently possible to stop short of what was in the mind of God; there was a possibility of persons coming into the christian profession without understanding where they were. And so it is today; we may come into what is outward without having spiritual realities in our souls,
without being skilled in the word of righteousness. If we are not skilled in the word of righteousness we may fall away. Today there are certain elements of the truth that are recognised and accepted, but the wonderful things of God, brought in and established in Christ, are not much acted on. It is a time of setting things right; God has everything according to His mind, but how little that is preached today. We ought to be exercised whether we have come in the apprehension of our souls to the full thought of God, or whether we are short in our souls as to the full mind of God? He shews here how far it is possible to go on with even christian things outwardly without any inward work of God. It is possible to go on with the things spoken of in verses 4 and 5 and yet fall away. If we do not go on to the full thought of God there is no security. The writer of this epistle does not assume that his readers generally are of this class but there is a possibility and danger of it. He would stimulate us to go on to the full thought of God. If we are not going on there is a terrible possibility of falling away. It is a wholesome warning and should not discourage anybody who has been powerfully affected by what has come before in the epistle -- the greatness of Christ, His place in heaven, the offices He fills. It should not discourage any one who is after these things, and yet there is no security for those not interested in Christ.
It is a remarkable expression in verses 4 and 5, "For it is impossible to renew again to repentance those once enlightened, and who have tasted of the heavenly gift, and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God, and the works of power of the age to come". It shews that, however great the outward privileges we have come into may be, yet they are no security in themselves. One might have all that is spoken of in verses 4 and 5 and still give it up, turn away from it
and go back. Those who came into the christian profession came into that. The Holy Spirit was there; ministry was there, meetings full of the actings of the Spirit; in that sense one might be a partaker of the Holy Spirit. The normal acting of the Spirit is found amongst the saints. Those who make profession of faith and come in among the saints partake of all that is there by the Spirit without perhaps personally having any part in it. If a person is indwelt or sealed by the Spirit there can be no thought of such turning away. If we are indwelt by the Spirit it is for ever, sealed to the day of redemption; there is no thought of that failing. People may come into fellowship, profess to believe that Jesus is the Christ and enjoy all outward privileges, and take part outwardly in the service of God, and yet there is a terrible possibility they may fall away. The writer contrasts all this with "We are persuaded concerning you, beloved, better things, and connected with salvation" (verse 9). That is another thing, a positive stream of love acting in saints generally. That is not outward privilege but inward spiritual reality; where that exists salvation is found. There is nothing for those who turn away from Christ and give up faith in Christ as the Son of God, so that they crucify the Son of God. If a Jew professes faith in Christ and walks with christians for years and then gives it up and goes back to be a Jew, God has nothing else to work on, no means of renewing him to repentance. He has turned away from all that is good and God has nothing else. Every Jew who professed christianity and went back to judaism crucified the Son of God with his eyes open.
Today the christian profession is drifting into this position. There are men prominent in the christian profession and holding high office who deny the virgin birth of the Lord and the atoning value of His blood and that He is Son of God. While keeping up the form of the christian profession
they depart from what is true christianity. They are apostates and God does not propose to bring people of that sort to repentance. He brings poor sinners to repentance as long as the day of salvation goes on, but not apostates. We must remember that in those early days these things were in great power -- heavenly gifts, the presence of the Spirit, the good word of God and so on. They were great realities. God worked miracles among His people; the Spirit's presence was made manifest in a more distinct way than now, and to fall away from that was to fall away from everything manifestly of God. Esau was a profane person. He had no sense of value in connection with holy things. This does not apply to persons being cold and carnal and letting the world come into their hearts. That happens with true believers sometimes. It is a dangerous position, but we could not say it was impossible to renew them to repentance. Those who have embraced christianity and leave it are characterised by thorns and briars; divine influence acting on them only produces thorns and briars. The contrast to that is the ground drinking "the rain which comes often upon it, and produces useful herbs ... partakes of blessing from God" (verse 7). The test is, is there any production for God, useful herbs, not anything about fruit, not anything special, but something useful brought forth for the comfort of the saints? It is a great thing to minister to the saints; it is a proof of divine life. It is blessed to serve the saints and particularly if it costs us something, if we do something we would naturally hold back from. We are always getting heavenly showers: ministry is continually found among the saints, rain from heaven, but the test is as to the result. Are there any useful herbs coming to light? It is not a question merely of what we enjoy but something produced which is useful. Rain brings out qualities of grace but certain ground produces only thorns and briars, nasty
exhibitions of what we are naturally according to flesh. If I bring forth nasty tempers of flesh it is very near cursing. In the government of God it is always either blessing or cursing. That gives the point to these exhortations to go on to the great system of blessing to which God has committed Himself by an oath.
We have to see to it that we do not become sluggish in connection with spiritual things. Even where there is a genuine work of God we may become sluggish. Old Testament saints are brought in as those who might well be imitated for their faith and patience. Abraham came in to what was of a very stable character; God was pleased to swear by Himself. We are not just in a lazy way to accept these promises as true, but they are to be a vital matter to us. The fact that certain persons readily give up should stimulate us. A young man said to the brethren that he had ceased believing in the Lord Jesus Christ; what a powerful effect that should have on every one! It should produce purpose of heart to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and go on with Him more than ever. The fact that people give up should be a stimulant; it should incite holy horror to think that people who walked with us should crucify the Lord. When we see people giving up the deity of Christ and His atonement and so on, it should lead us to feel more determined to go on with what is right. It is a question of the word of righteousness. Giving up the companionship of the brethren is not right.
God is delighted to pledge Himself; He swears by Himself. How this must have come home to the Jewish believers, for it was at the time that Abraham offered up Isaac that God swore by Himself. Christ after the flesh had been given up; it answered to the time in which the writer was writing. The Son of God had been crucified, Christ after the flesh existed no longer, but the promises and the oath and the purpose of God are connected with Him in another
scene. It is quite possible that Jews might have come into the christian profession with the hope that there would be some great intervention of God and everything on earth put right, but as time went on and there was no intervention from heaven they probably came to it that it was all a delusion and they gave it up. This epistle was written to shew that the system of the things of God was an unseen one, connected with Christ in heaven. The oath and promises are all connected with heaven and it is impossible for God to lie.
Rem. We did not touch on the last part of the previous chapter; we would be glad of help on it. At the end of chapter 8 the emphasis is on the word 'new'.
C.A.C. Yes; what is emphasised is the necessity for the work of God in His people. The writer has in mind the setting aside of what is connected with the old. In speaking of the new covenant the writer of the epistle was putting before them a new order of things in place of the old order which was a system that was passing away.
Ques. Is it in contrast with the covenant that was made with the fathers?
C.A.C. There was no corresponding work of God in the people. God was pleased to give them His law, but there was no corresponding work in them.
Ques. "All shall know me" (chapter 8: 11). Is that more than the covenant?
C.A.C. It necessitates a work of God in His people. That is an essential part of the new covenant, securing what is in the mind and heart of God. The present time is not only a certain expression of the grace of God in the
gospel, but God is working in men, securing men's hearts. All that belongs to the new covenant.
Rem. The law in itself does not effectuate that.
C.A.C. No, it requires a work of God. At the present time the Lord is working in men the appreciation of what is in Himself. It is an extraordinary operation of God. We are living in the time of the extraordinary working of God in the souls of His people.
Rem. 'Consciousness in oneself', J. N. D. says in his note to chapter 8, verse 11.
C.A.C. Yes; such wonderful things could not come to pass through the incarnation or through Christ's death without securing an appreciation of it in the hearts of men.
Rem. The first order of man cannot respond. All must be of God, so we have to be born again.
C.A.C. That is most important. Think of the character of God's actings now. The law was majestic and awe-inspiring but it was nothing compared with His present acting and speaking.
Rem. Moses wrote the tables of stone but the people did not respond.
C.A.C. Moses had the secret. While the law was broken and dishonoured publicly Moses came down from the mount with the secret in his heart. He had been on the mount, which suggests what is heavenly, the divine provision. The tables were going to be put in the ark. That was the secret.
The first tables represented the first order of things but there was a second set which were to be put in the ark; they were not broken. The first set of tables represented the first order of things and the second set of tables represented the second order of things. In connection with the second set of tables, they were wrought by Moses: he was the mediator.
Every one who came under the hand of Christ got a
touch. After His death there were five hundred brethren in one place; each one of them was the direct product of the Lord's touch, having come under His mighty hand. They were capable through coming under Christ's hand of looking with undimmed vision on the risen Christ.
We can always count on the actual working of God. People say that the gospel is not cared for now, and that people do not come to hear it. Well, do you think that makes any difference to God? God is going on with His working from the standpoint of what He is: all works from that side. Men may make a profession of christianity and turn from it but there are those into whose minds and hearts God puts His laws. God puts the appreciation of Christ and of His death into people's hearts and not all the powers of hell can take it out.
Ques. Is the new covenant the expression of God seen in Christ?
C.A.C. Yes. In the last days we fall back on this. Amidst profession the ground of our confidence is the work of God in man.
Ques. Is this why the holiest is brought in so soon here?
C.A.C. The tabernacle sets forth all that was purely of God; so, while in a sense the tabernacle had its place in connection with the first covenant, yet it does not belong to that system. It was a representation of heavenly things; it did not belong to the legal system at all. The law had to do with men down here, but the tabernacle belongs to what is up there. The tabernacle sets forth the system of heavenly things which is all divine in thought. The tabernacle itself is the perfect contrast to the whole legal system in which it was set up. There was perfect contrast in the Lord to the legal system into which He came. He came of a woman; He came under law, but there was a contrast in Him to all that into which He came. The tabernacle was the most perfect expression of heavenly things that we
have in Scripture, apart from the Lord. The tabernacle is a wonderful thing; it belongs to us in a peculiar way. Israel will have a limited entrance into the types of the tabernacle, but the assembly is qualified to appreciate and understand the great heavenly system. J.N.D. says in his note to verse 1 of chapter 9, 'The holy order of the tabernacle, which represented the vast scene in which God's glory is displayed in Christ'. This is beyond the millennium. It is universal, it brings before us God's universe. We sing, 'Of the vast universe of bliss' (Hymn 11). The tabernacle answers to that; it goes into eternity; it is expressive of eternal thoughts; it expresses all that glory which is the result to God of the sin offering. The centre of all is the mercy-seat with the blood of the sin offering upon it.
Ques. Is not the burnt offering greater than the sin offering?
C.A.C. No. The blood of the burnt offering never went in to the holiest, but the blood of the sin offering was put on the mercy-seat. The whole tabernacle system had as its centre the ark of the covenant, the mercy-seat, and the cherubim, but the blood of the sin offering was put on the mercy-seat. There is nothing so great as the sin offering, because the whole universe of bliss is commensurate with it: we can regard every bit of it as the answer to the sufferings of Christ as the sin-offering. That is what gives the many sons their value to God.
Ques. God has been glorified: is that the basis of the sin offering?
C.A.C. God is glorified in mercy. The universe of bliss is to be the display throughout eternity of God in mercy. Every part of divine glory is blended together to secure the universe of bliss, filled with creatures who are all blessed in the sin-offering work of the Lord Jesus. There is nothing we need to ponder more than the sufferings of
Christ in sin-offering character. All that is before God on the mercy-seat; all God is doing and will do is according to the value of that! God effects new birth. Why? Because of the value of the sin-offering before Him. He is working on that basis. We can say, 'Glory all belongs to God'.
These wonderful verses at the beginning of chapter 9 are most important; they dwell on things that exist at the present time. The Spirit of God can open it all out in detail to us.
Ques. Why is the golden censer mentioned here as within the veil?
C.A.C. He does not mention the golden altar here because for us the intercession of Christ is within the veil. He speaks of the golden censer within the veil. He puts a contrast between what is in the holy place and what is in the most holy place. He thinks of the golden censer as that which filled the place with the cloud of incense. Before the blood was carried in they carried in the censer, so the cloud of incense covered the mercy-seat. There is a moral order that the writer is leading us on to.
Ques. Is approach within in view?
C.A.C. That is the idea. It is how we go in. There are certain things that have a place in the service of God that are not within the veil. The candlestick is not within the veil. A brother comes to minister Christ; that is not within the veil, though we all listen to it. It is not in the world; it is in the holy place, but it is not within the veil. We are not within the veil now as we sit here together, but I trust we are in the holy place; we are not in the world or in the wilderness. We are sitting together, waiting on God as to holy things and we want the light of the candlestick, but we are not within the veil. So the table of the exposition of the loaves speaks of a spiritual order found on earth. The saints are viewed according to the work of God in them; they are not viewed as within the veil; but as we are come
together we are privileged to view the brethren as the subjects of the work of God. We can take in the thought of all saints as forming a holy order of things here on this earth. The service of God cannot go on unless we bring the truth of the table and exposition of the loaves to it.
Think of a spiritual order of things which you cannot limit; you must have twelve loaves on the table. This helps us to think of the saints apart from flesh and blood conditions; we are privileged to take account of things from that point of view. God is working on the broad platform of all saints. All this would get us out of our littleness. This is not exactly the fellowship; that is our public place in the world; this is the holy place. The table is set over against the candlestick so that the loaves are in the shining. We have to learn to view the saints in the light of the ministry of Christ. You cannot think of part of the saints, there must be twelve loaves -- a complete administrative company formed after Christ. God wants to be approached in a manner that gives Him pleasure.
Rem. These are heavenly things.
C.A.C. Yes, very much so. Heavenly things are brought into manifestation in a people on earth, a heavenly people but on earth. Each has a ribbon of blue on his garment. We have to bring our minds and hearts into line with these things.
Ques. Is Christ the Minister of these things?
C.A.C. Quite so. There is a true tabernacle which the Lord has pitched and not man. There is a new system of things to be apprehended spiritually. That enables us to love all the saints; we get on to the Colossian and Ephesian platform; we love even people we do not know because we take account of them according to Christ Jesus.
Ques. Could you help us in regard to the veil? We have been told there is no veil in Hebrews.
C.A.C. But we read here of being within the veil, and in chapter 10 of going through the veil!
Rem. I think the brother is thinking of there being no rent veil in Hebrews.
C.A.C. What the scripture says is, "through the veil, that is, his flesh". We must understand these things spiritually. Through the veil we can enter spiritually into a region outside the realm of sight and sense where the thoughts of God are viewed as established in Christ. When we come inside the veil, we come to the perfection and blessedness of the divine thoughts seen in Christ without modification. His death has opened up an order of things which is within the veil; He has entered as Priest within the veil.
Ques. Is it a kindred thought that He has reconciled us in the body of His flesh through death?
C.A.C. I think it is. Colossians and Hebrews go together. Colossians brings before the gentile believers a similar line to what Hebrews brings before the Jews. The two epistles correspond -- one is presented to the Jew and the other to the gentile.
Rem. You were telling us that the High Priest had gone in for us, and that the bells began to ring then and have been ringing ever since!
C.A.C. There is nothing more important than for us to see that He has gone in. He has taken something into heaven that was never there before. He has secured something that has enriched heaven. He has acquired the value of redemption (verse 12). It is a great help to see that He has
"found an eternal redemption". It would help us to realise what Christ has acquired, not in the church, but what He has acquired by coming into this world. He has acquired what He could not have acquired in heaven. I was thinking that in the Authorised Version it says "for us", which shews that they were governed by selfish thoughts. It is far greater than that. It is what Christ has acquired.
Rem. He has secured a universe for God.
C.A.C. That will be, surely, but it is a very great thing to see what He has acquired at the present time. He has gone within the veil in the value of what He has acquired. It says here, He has "found an eternal redemption".
Ques. For whom was the redemption?
C.A.C. For Himself! The first thing that is important is that God should take to Himself His rights. In the Old Testament the thought of salvation is something that God has acquired for Himself. The Lord has acquired what is infinitely precious to Him. He is in the presence of God as possessed of it in all its value. I was thinking of a scripture in Isaiah which gives you something in relation to Jehovah -- chapter 59: 16, 17. The helmet of salvation was on His head: that is, Jehovah has acquired this for Himself. There is another similar verse in chapter 63, verse 5, -- "I looked, and there was none to help ... mine own arm brought salvation unto me". He moved in the greatness of His strength to! secure salvation. There was no one to help or intercede, so God has to take the matter in hand Himself. He acquires redemption, He has that glory. Men may get the benefit of it, but God acquires the glory of it first.
He is the first to be possessed of salvation. God is minded to acquire the glory of getting salvation. According to Hebrews 9, Christ goes within the veil in all the value of the preciousness of His own blood; He has acquired redemption.
Ques. Are others associated with Him?
C.A.C. Quite so, because He is priest. The idea of priesthood is representation. God is jealous for His own glory; what God acquires is the first consideration. There is a special value now attaching to Christ.
Rem. The universe will display it because it is so great.
C.A.C. That is what I had in mind. Christ has acquired that which He can apply to the whole universe; He has found eternal redemption. The glory of His death and the glorious value of His blood we need to have much before us. This epistle enlarges on all this, and on the covenant, to furnish us with praise when we come to the service of the assembly. He fills a place before God now. He is our priestly Representative now.
Ques. The Spirit of God speaks so much of the blood in this chapter -- it is mentioned ten times, I think. What is the reason?
C.A.C. To bring out the sacrificial value of the death of Christ, the purifying power of it.
Ques. What is the thought in Luke in regard to the mount? They speak of His decease -- the word is 'exodus'. Does that point to what is here?
C.A.C. Yes. He was going out of flesh and blood conditions. Things concerning Him were brought to an end. The shedding of His blood secured to Him a new glory and value, something additional to His Person. That is very important. He is in the presence of God in all that value. His Person is unchangeable, but He is there too in the value of this wonderful offering. He offered Himself by the eternal Spirit to God.
Ques. Do we get that in Colossians?
C.A.C. Yes, what corresponds very much with it. That wonderful little word "it" -- "You, who once were alienated and enemies in mind ... yet now has it reconciled" (Colossians 1:21). I consider that "it" the biggest word in the sixty-six books of the Bible. The "it" means the Fulness,
Father, Son, and Spirit; the "it" is a big little word! I think if we got more on to this side we would be liberated in the service of praise. The service of God is the great theme in Hebrews. We are purged to serve the living God; we are to serve in the way of worship. The tabernacle is the place of service. It was not perfect because it gave no immediate access to God. Now in "the high priest of the good things to come" we have the things that have come.
Ques. Do you mean promised blessings that are come in in Christ, not things in the future?
C.A.C. Yes, it includes all that will be unfolded in the future; all is secured in Christ. All that redemption means Christ has secured. By redemption things are brought back to God for the divine pleasure. God has exercised the right of redemption for His own pleasure and glory. The word is applied to transgressions here -- "redemption of the transgressions". Israel is looked at as God's property, He had taken them out of Egypt to be to Himself, but they were guilty of transgressions under the first covenant. God came in by Christ in order that those transgressions might be forgiven. God acquired something in relation to it all.
God is better off now through Christ and His blood.
God would magnify before us Christ, His death and His blood. Think of His Person as brought before us in chapters 1 and 2, and think of that Person having blood to shed and of its value! The whole universe is going to resound with the value of Christ's blood. Think of Adam and Eve clothed by God! Something was added to them that could not have found part in their original endowment.
Ques. Would you link these thoughts with the cup?
C.A.C. All comes out in connection with the covenant and the will of God, which links it directly with the Supper and indicates how the Supper stands in relation to the service of God. It is not simply the announcement of His death, but it stands in connection with the service of God.
He likes us to handle the loaf and the cup in connection with His service.
Ques. Would the Lord give us the cup, put it into our hands?
C.A.C. In the account in Luke the Lord speaks of giving His body and pouring out His blood, but when the Lord gives it to Paul from heaven (1 Corinthians 11) He says nothing about "giving" or "pouring out". The Lord would take us away from the act to the preciousness of the thing. "This is my body which is for you"; "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; this do ... in remembrance of me", 1 Corinthians 11:24, 25. It is the preciousness of the thing that is given and poured out, not so much the act.
We need to dwell on that. All this would lift the service of God on to a high spiritual level.
Rem. "Thou hast prepared me a body".
C.A.C. Yes, the teaching is very much on that line. On entering on this we are qualified to serve God. The youngest of us can give God more pleasure than an angel can. Do we want to give God pleasure?
Ques. What is the meaning of the expression in verse 10, "Until the time of setting things right"?
C.A.C. I thought it gave a wonderful impression of the character of the present time; God is setting everything right; He is not improving things. When you come to Christ, what is effected by Christ is right, there is no defect; well that time has come; things are set right.
Ques. Is it in keeping with the epistle? Speaking in Son cannot be improved upon.
C.A.C. Yes. The Spirit would emphasise that to us. It would have a great effect on saints if they got that impression. It is an immense thing and very liberating. The Holy Spirit would never witness to anything else. He comes down to witness to Christ and to the blood of Christ. Christ has gone within the veil. That is all so right
that it cannot be improved upon. We worship on that footing only. It may be very nice for people to confess that they are miserable sinners, but it does not sound nice to heaven. It is a delight to God to see us entering into these things, and to have a sense that what we enter into is good beyond description. The religious world is full of activity, but they are dead works which the living God can take no pleasure in.
Ques. Does the Holy Spirit witness to a divine Person?
C.A.C. In this epistle He is looked at as bearing witness to us. The indwelling Spirit is not seen in Hebrews, but you get the Spirit as a divine Person witnessing to certain things.
Ques. As we move in relation to a living system is there an increase as we come together?
C.A.C. I think so. Growth is a law to a living system -- "increases to a holy temple" (Ephesians 2:21) -- holiness increases. There should be more of the holy temple amongst us next Lord's Day than there was last Lord's Day. We should not have this in a formal way, but in substance in our hearts. Now we have a living service that God can take pleasure in. The Holy Spirit witnesses through this epistle; it is for us to allow Him to act on us; it will have great effect.
Ques. Would you help us in regard to verse 14, "who by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God"?
C.A.C. It is connected with what we said before; the fulness of the Godhead enters into this. The Spirit gave particular character to the offering; Christ offered Himself by the Holy Spirit. All that He did and said in the service of grace was in the power of the Holy Spirit. He offered Himself by the eternal Spirit. A peculiar grace marked the offering character.
Ques. He "set himself down" (Hebrews 1:3); is not that in contrast to the priests who were always standing?
C.A.C. Yes. If all that was in the mind of God has been secured, restful conditions are brought about. God has made a certain disposition of things, alluded to here as a 'will' or a 'testament'. Through Christ's death that disposition of things is made effective. All that God has in His mind is secured.
Ques. In Hebrews 9 it says, "the better and more perfect tabernacle not made with hand, (that is, not of this creation,)". In the Authorised Version it says, "not of this building". Why is this?
C.A.C. I suppose it is to shew that the true tabernacle is heavenly. The tabernacle in the wilderness was made according to the pattern typically of the heavenly system; it was only a shadow; the heavenly is the reality.
Ques. The Scripture speaks of the eternal God. Does that refer to deity?
C.A.C. Yes. In this epistle the word 'eternal' is often brought in referring to a system of things outside time -- eternal redemption, eternal covenant, eternal inheritance, eternal salvation. They are things outside the limit of time. They stand in connection with what is eternal; they are not of this creation at all.
C.A.C. Our attention is called in this chapter to the fact that there is an order of things in which God is served. That could not be a passing thing; if there is a system that has grown old and aged and is disappearing, this contains an element that could not grow old or disappear. It is right that God should be served, not according to men's thoughts but according to His own thoughts. Our service
to God applies to the morning meeting and the meeting for prayer; those two refer particularly to the service of God. This afternoon we have come together to get light from God, having in view that we should be better fitted to serve God, so this chapter is all valuable instruction for us. What is contemplated here is the great sacrificial work on which the service is based; the writer had not time to speak in detail of the tabernacle for he had in mind to make much of the great sacrifice of Christ. Great thoughts are presented in the tabernacle that could not pass away because they are God's thoughts and we come to the reality of them.
Ques. Is the golden censer additional?
C.A.C. The writer leaves out the golden altar and brings in the censer here, I suppose having in mind what was before him, namely, to magnify the work of Christ. It was not his thought to go into detail but to magnify the work of Christ; the censer is connected with that. Aaron went in with the incense before he took in the blood; the censer had a great place on the day of atonement and so it is mentioned here. The golden altar had no particular place on that day and so he leaves it out; the censer takes the place of the golden altar. In Revelation we see the golden altar and the Lord as Angel-Priest giving efficacy to the prayers of the saints on earth, which is a beautiful touch as to His service, for if He serves the saints of the remnant thus, He will not serve the saints of the assembly less! We may be sure of that! So that we can see that that throws light on His sanctuary service.
We do not get to God without the High Priest; His movements are the thing to consider. Every feature of glory shadowed forth in the tabernacle has its place now. The tabernacle sets forth, as J.N.D.'s note puts it, 'the vast scene in which God's glory is displayed in Christ'. What a wonderful thought that is! Every part of that system of revelation subsists in Him. What a comfort to
think that every thought we have in reference to God comes from Christ; otherwise it would be a dark thought. As to response, all is in the Priest. We have to think how the Priest goes to God; that is how we go and we cannot go any other way. This is quite different from going to God as a poor sinner or as a poor saint! Our system subsists in glory; it is a glory-system and the moment we lose the sense of glory in our souls we are out of it! It is spoken of as subsisting in glory, "the surpassing glory" (2 Corinthians 3). Man's approach to God cannot be improved upon; we should consider that. Nothing in the universe can add anything to man's approach to God. The Lord when He brings us together on Lord's day morning would occupy our thoughts with Himself -- "This is my body", "This cup is the new covenant in my blood" -- it is Himself. We want to learn the majesty of what He is Himself and not let our thoughts wander, but give ourselves to consider what there is in the loaf and the cup; there is enough in it to last more than a thousand years! He would occupy us first with how He came out; the loaf and the cup have to do with that. We dwell on a lot of beautiful and true things but they may not be what the Lord is calling attention to. The more we set everything else aside and give ourselves up to what the Lord is saying, the more powerful the occasion would become. He would support that. Afterwards we get to the side of approach, but we must think first of the loaf and the cup. He says, 'I want you to think of that'. We should be concerned with what the Lord would impress us with; we want to give our hearts to that and not be diverted to the one hundred and one things which may be good and true but are not what the Lord would impress us with at the present moment; then we should get on.
As the assembly is convened the Lord does not act apart from vessels available. It would be through some brother that the Lord would direct our hearts into the right channel.
If the Lord has something to say to His saints He would use a vessel through whom to say it. I should like to be that vessel, particularly in reference to the loaf and cup. The assembly is composed of intelligent persons. If we do not understand the terms on which God is with us, we shall not have any liberty with Him. What comes within our compass is what we commit ourselves wholly to. We give ourselves, spirit, soul and body to it.
The first tabernacle was particularly in relation to Israel, because we have the table with the twelve loaves on it shewing that Israel is in view. But then there is the candlestick thought and the table thought carried on in christianity; these thoughts have not lapsed, but we have something additional -- the holiest.
A great thing before the mind of the writer is the wonderful character of the offering, that it should be understood, and that the Lord enters the holy of holies by His own blood; that is what He wants us to think of in this chapter. All divine things are not equally important and we have to distinguish between the lesser and the more important. There is nothing more important than that we should understand that Christ has entered the holy of holies in the power of His own blood. It indicates that a Man has entered the most holy spot in the universe -- the holiest! There cannot be anything holier, and a Man has entered it. This is not a question of God coming out to us, but of how man is to go to God. How wonderful to think that there is only one measure for us by which we approach God; it is not one measure for one and another for another, but only one measure and that is Christ! How has He gone? On the ground on which I can go in, on the ground on which each of us can go in, the ground of His own death. He has gone to God in a new way which was never possible until after He died. He never went to God in the days of His flesh in this way; He was never on that ground with
God before. The very ground on which He is with God is the ground on which we can be with God -- apart from sin or flesh or anything that would bring shame on the holiest. We adorn the place; every saint who reaches the holiest is an adornment to the place.
C.A.C. It stands in relation to what is collective. One individual is hardly equal to the service of God; he would have to say 'I'. 'I' has no place in the service of God. We say 'we', and in principle that includes all saints. When we say 'we' on Lord's day morning how big is that 'we'? It ought in our minds and affections to include all saints, the sanctified company; we include all in our minds; we think of the whole sanctified company and it includes many sons, not just the handful in any room locally.
John 17 is the High Priest at the golden altar linking up all those the Father has given Him with Himself. This thought of approach to God is very important; the Spirit of God would lead us to dismiss from our thoughts anything less than this. No one enters the holiest except in priestly condition, hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, bodies washed with pure water. Think of a little company of saints and the Lord able to look round and see all taking in the thought of the loaf and cup, all turning in adoration to Him as the Mediator and the Head! He would be free to say, 'Come with me, I will take you somewhere'. He has something most elevated in His mind. The best morning meeting we ever had is not so good as what the Lord has in mind for us.
What a joy for God to have received Him! He has not only gone in, but been received, and received up in glory. The wav He has been received is the pattern of how we are received if we go with Him. There is no other way of approach to God but with Christ. If I do not go in the company of Christ I do not go at all. Let us all take that in.
God must be approached according to His own glory and who could do this but Christ?
How wonderful if we shed everything else from our spirits when we come together! We have been occupied with a thousand things in daily and domestic life and alas! often with what pertains to our own foolish hearts; but we must shed all that off. I may be a nice or a nasty man, but I must shed it all off; a nice man is no better than a nasty! We go in to God in the company of Christ, as acceptable to God as He is; we are on the ground of Christ's death. God never questions the power of the ground on which we can be with Him. Our hearts may question it but God never will. This would set our hearts free; every brother's and sister's heart would be set free.
Ques. What is the idea of the power of the blood?
C.A.C. We can say of the Lord that He acquired new value in which to be in the presence of God, not value connected with His Person but connected with His work which was not there until He did the work. What ground can I have but His blood? Christ and His brethren are on common ground in the presence of God -- "His own blood". All eternity will never add anything to the value of the blood. We shall never be better with God than we are when we enter the holiest. The blessed God Himself has laid out and provided the conditions, and the moment we get there we realise it could not be otherwise; nothing less will do for God than Christ and the value of His blood. The sinner begins with Christ and His blood, and the oldest and most mature saint cannot get beyond it. It is elementary and yet profound. We can shed off our spirits all connected with the flesh and our natural condition and come into God's presence in spotless white garments! It is wonderful!
Ques. You spoke last week as to God making a will. Is not that very distinctive?
C.A.C. We get the thought in verse 16. I suppose the promise of the eternal inheritance in verse 15 leads to the thought of a testament or will which acquires force by the death of the testator, the object of the Spirit of God being to magnify before our hearts the death of Christ and what has come to pass through the death of Christ. There is nothing more important for us as believers than to see what has come to pass in His death; what is purely of God is brought in and secured by the death of Christ.
Ques. Verses 16 and 17 are put in brackets in the New Translation but not in the Authorised Version, why is this?
C.A.C. I do not know that there is any special thought in putting the brackets. It forms part of the line which the Spirit of God is pursuing. Having referred to Christ as the Mediator of the new covenant, He is Mediator in the sense that He has accomplished everything so that God is free according to His nature to give the eternal inheritance, which obviously has the heavenly side in view. Christ is introduced as Mediator and as having effected through redemption the full liberty in which God is acting and that leads the writer to refer to the covenant as a will -- a testament which acquires force through the death of the testator. It is a beautiful thought which comes in the line of the teaching of the Spirit in this part of the book. The great point is that God is free through the death of Christ; God can dispose of things according to His own heart. Among
other things this brings out what is important, namely the deity of Christ. If He is the Testator it is the mind of God that is brought out. The Mediator is entirely on God's part; it is through His death that Christ has become the Mediator, the One by whom the thoughts of God's love have been made good. Nothing could give greater force to the thought of the eternal inheritance, the heavenly position. That is how God has disposed of things; He has assigned to His called ones a heavenly portion. In Hebrews we have a heavenly people.
There are all the provisions of the will and they are irreversible. If you entertain the great thought of God in assigning a heavenly portion to His called ones you can see that it all takes effect in the death of Christ. The covenant now is not like the covenant which was under law and which the people broke. The idea of the Mediator in christianity is different from the Mediator as seen in Moses. In writing to the Galatians the apostle will not have the thought of the Mediator at all; for from this standpoint a mediator supposes that there are two parties obligated, whereas God is one and all is carried out according to the will of one party. The thought of a will is that if a man disposes of his estate and dies, the death of the testator brings the will of the testator into force; it is not a question of the beneficiaries, or what they think or say. The Mediator as seen in Hebrews sets forth the particular way in which God has come near to men. God came here in Manhood in the Person of the Son, that He might go into death to secure everything. How wonderful it is to think of! It is a question of God's disposition. Christ is the Testator and Executor of the will; it is all on the divine side. That is what is so blessed. There are not two parties obligated; there are beneficiaries, but no part of the disposition of things depends on them. The thought of the Mediator includes the value of His death and His perfect
efficiency as Administrator of the estate. What glories come together in that blessed Person! It makes us long for an opportunity to praise and glorify Him!
It is important that we should be confirmed in the thought of the covenant. The covenant made with Abraham was unconditional.
Ques. Is there no Mediator when it is a question of promise?
C.A.C. We have not here two parties who are both to maintain faithfulness to the covenant. That is usually the case; two parties must sign the covenant. That is how it stood under law, but christianity is different. It is what God proposes and His disposition is in the sense of the provisions of a will; it is important to see that. Two things are brought out commensurate with one another, the love of God and the death of Christ. The death of Christ in its value is commensurate with the divine nature. God's love is expressed in that death never to be so expressed again. This makes us think much of the death of Christ.
Rem. His death is for the redemption of transgressions.
C.A.C. It had to take into account the former histories of every one of us -- our sins, our guilt. All that was connected with our sinful state was taken into account when Christ died.
Ques. Was the first covenant set on one side?
C.A.C. Yes, because it did not make known the nature of God. It did not give men a purged conscience, so it failed on God's side and on man's side. The new covenant is the wonderful way that God has taken to dispose of things; it reveals His nature and secures a purged conscience so that the worshippers can approach. All this comes to us by the Spirit, but the prominence that is given to Christ in this epistle is very striking. As we said last week there is no indwelling Spirit in Hebrews. The Spirit is spoken of as a divine Witness but not as indwelling.
Christ is the Mediator of the new covenant and His mediatorship is the carrying out of the office of executor. The fact that this matter of the will is introduced shews that it is a figure that God can take up and which is suitable to express the way of His acting at the present time. The object of it is that God should be known, so that knowing and loving God we may serve God.
Ques. Would the understanding of this help us in connection with the meaning of the cup?
C.A.C. Yes, and the loaf too. This epistle bears much on the Lord's supper without mentioning the Supper. Much is made in this epistle of the Lord's body -- His body being offered, and the covenant being in His blood. All this is to qualify us for the morning meeting, and to help us to enter into the Supper is to help us in the service of God.
He has made a disposition of things that is adequate to His own nature; nothing could be greater than that. In the presence of the death of Christ we learn what we are, and we can learn it no other way. I realise how sinful my life is when I see that in no other way could God approach me than in the death of His Son.
Ques. Who are "the called" (verse 15)?
C.A.C. That connects the whole thing with the purpose of God. The thought of being called introduces divine purpose.
Ques. Where does the gospel come in on these lines?
C.A.C. This is not exactly gospel for sinners, this is gospel for saints. What we preach to sinners is the righteousness of God through the death of Christ. God is just and the Justifier of those who believe in Jesus -- that is the gospel we present. But the presence of people on the earth in the good of the new covenant would be a powerful witness to the world in addition to the preaching. A man of the world would say, 'There are people who were once like me, seeking satisfaction from things here, but now they
are supremely happy in the love of God; they do not want the world at all. I wish I had what they have!'
What kind of disposition has God made of His property? He has assigned to His called ones a heavenly portion; they have part in all that of which Christ is the Heir. The heavenly side comes into view in the fact that the Heir is already in heaven and the saints down here are joint heirs. God has made that disposition and carried it out in the death of Christ. Whatever is in the mind of God has been secured through the death of Christ for the called ones.
Ques. What is the inheritance? Is it sonship?
C.A.C. No, it is rather that sonship includes the inheritance; it is the sons who inherit.
I thought the promise indicated the proposition on God's part. The more excellent ministry is established on better promises which brings the heavenly into view. In Ephesians Christ is seen as the One who is in possession on the heavenly side. It is in Him that we obtain the inheritance on the heavenly side. The heavenly calling brings in the heavenly inheritance. This epistle is written to deliver the people of God from earthly thoughts and bring them to heavenly thoughts. God will give the earthly to Israel in a coming day. He gives the heavenly to His called ones today.
Rem. In the opening chapter of the epistle it speaks of the Son being established Heir of all things.
C.A.C. The inheritance in the full scope of it is "all things". The created universe is viewed as the subject of reconciliation through the death of Christ. God puts His saints into possession of it. How God enjoys the inheritance! The Hebrews were tested as to whether they had yielded themselves to the divine call, and we too are tested. The Spirit of God is magnifying in this part of the epistle the value of the death and blood of Christ. He
shews how according to the first order of things the blood has a great place. Even the former covenant was connected in the mind of God with death.
Ques. Do not Psalm 2 and Psalm 8 touch this heavenly calling?
C.A.C. The heavenly calling is not a subject of the Old Testament. We have a lot of typical teaching we can take up in the light of the heavenly, but it was not the thought in that day. Take the words of the law; there is a lot in it typically that applies to us now. In Exodus 24 we read of the blood being put on the altar and on the people and then Moses and seventy elders of Israel go up the mountain and see the God of Israel. They go up to what was heavenly in character. All the things of the tabernacle made known the heavenly typically.
Ques. How would sprinkling the people with blood apply today?
C.A.C. The "sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ", Peter says. That is how it applies today.
God is moving and operating that He should be made known to men. In God becoming known response is secured. It is not the thought of God that people should be unresponsive. If we come to the knowledge of God we shall be responsive. If there is no response it shews we have not come into the love of God. How could a creature know the love of God and not respond? It is impossible. A great many people live on texts, but texts do not go beyond comfort. People may get comfort in a text but that is not what we are talking about. The thing is to get the knowledge of God -- to get God before you. God in dealing with a people in flesh could not make Himself known; men according to flesh could not approach God. God is known in the light of the death of Christ; that is something altogether different from flesh. We get a new generation who are not in the flesh -- they can be in perfect liberty.
Moses on the mount was there in liberty hearing things for the making of the tabernacle.
Ques. Would liberty be in the virtue of the blood?
C.A.C. Yes. If we come in the value of the death of Christ there will be no barrier, not only to heaven, but to God in the value of the blood. The nearer we get to God, the happier we are, and the more conscious of supreme delight and liberty. As we receive the value of the death of Christ into our hearts it produces response.
Rem. I suppose Hebrews 10 is, "Let us approach".
C.A.C. Yes, He encourages us to draw near. This epistle is a stimulant, a word of exhortation. We see the way God has come out; that is the great theme. This epistle dwells on the Person, the offices, sacrifice and priesthood of Christ. God thus comes out with a view to our going in. God has secured a heavenly inheritance for us. We are to be stimulated to draw near to God.
C.A.C. One has often felt on reading this epistle how it occupies us with things which are exceedingly great. The Son is introduced to us at the commencement as having "set himself down on the right hand of the greatness on high". In chapter 8 He is seen as sitting at the right hand of the Greatness in heaven. Our attention is called to Melchisedec -- who is a type of Christ -- as a great one. It seems to suggest a region of greatness and great things.
One might say that the chapters before us -- especially chapters 9 and 10 -- are to give our souls an immense thought of the greatness of the death of Christ, the greatness of His sacrifice. All this would have an effect upon
our worship and upon our attitude in the house of God and the way we approach. God would give us a sense of greatness.
Rem. It was said of the Lord before He was born, "He shall be great".
C.A.C. Yes; all rests on the greatness of His Person. It is remarkable that the word 'greatness' should be applied to God; when it says in Hebrews 8:1, "Who has sat down on the right hand of the throne of the greatness in the heavens", it is a remarkable way of speaking because "the greatness" there is God Himself.
Rem. It speaks of a greater and more perfect tabernacle.
C.A.C. That continues the thought. It is a tabernacle that as far as we are concerned is entirely heavenly. The whole system of heavenly things is purified by blood, purified by the death of Christ. Could there be anything greater? If God sets up an order of things that stands eternally in the value of the death of His Son, how wonderful it must be! God has no such basis as that for creation!
Ques. Is there any other foundation?
C.A.C. The death of Christ supposes the presence of sin in the universe, and is the ground on which God is going to secure His own pleasure and glory eternally.
The tabernacle and all the instruments of service were purified by blood, but that was only typical. Now we have come to "the heavenly things themselves". It is an immense help to us to see that everything that belongs to heavenly things stands before God in purification: there is no blemish in it because it stands in the purification of the death of Christ.
Rem. In Hebrews 2 it speaks of so great salvation.
C.A.C. That is another aspect of greatness.
Ques. In the types at every turn one is faced with the necessity than sin for that
necessity of death. Does the death of Christ enhance its value thus?
C.A.C. In connection with the typical system blood is not only needed for remission, but blood is needed for purification, and purification has reference to all that God requires.
Ques. What does remission mean?
C.A.C. Sins are dismissed from God's account eternally. The word literally means sending away. Remission of sins means that they are dismissed eternally from God's reckoning. It is an unworthy thing to speak much about sins to God. If He has forgotten them, you may be sure that He does not want to be reminded of them. That is the difference between remembrance in the Old Testament and in the New Testament. The day of atonement was a great day in the Old Testament and it brought sins to remembrance. What we do is not the calling to mind of sins, but the calling to mind of a divine Person who gave Himself to secure all in the presence of God.
Ques. What is the difference between forgiveness and remission?
C.A.C. There are two words for forgiveness; one means to shew grace and the other is remission. Sins are sent away never to count again. Scripture goes so far as to say that a worshipper once purged has no more conscience of sins. Such is the purifying power of the death of Christ that the question of sins never comes on the conscience of a believer.
Ques. Is that the force of this verse in Hebrews 9:24, "For the Christ is not entered into holy places made with hand, figures of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear before the face of God for us"?
C.A.C. Yes, He appears there representatively for us. The nearer you get to God the more completely do you find yourself apart from sin and sins. There are no sins or
sin in the presence of God. It is all obtained through the death of Christ; all is purified by blood, by death. Think of the wonderful character in which saints are spoken of in this epistle --
All these are heavenly things and they make up the system of heavenly things. Every detail is purified in the value of the death of Christ, so there cannot be any blemish in it. There may be weakness in our apprehension, but the thing itself is perfect. This would put spring into our souls if we entered into it.
Rem. It cannot be added to or improved.
C.A.C. No. This is the will of God. We may say we cannot grasp it, that it is too great. Well, it is the will of God and nothing else is going to stand. It stands in the value of the death of Christ. We might as well take it in and give God the praise.
Ques. Would this give us capacity to enter into the holiest?
C.A.C. If we think of the system of heavenly things we should accustom ourselves to think that we belong to that system by the calling and will of God and the death of Christ. We are constituted a part of this system of heavenly things, purified by blood. He has gone in representatively. If I want to know my place I must look at Him. My place is heavenly because my representative is there. We sometimes sing:
We stand there representatively.
So all the worship and service now must be of a heavenly order. No earthly service or worship is acceptable to God now. Much that is brought in in christendom like music and other things is all earthly and God does not care about what is earthly. Sonship is one of the heavenly things and it abides in the value of the death of Christ.
The Lord has in mind to introduce a system of heavenly things. He spoke of the necessity for new birth as among earthly things, and if Nicodemus did not believe what the Lord said about that, how could He go on to speak about the heavenly things that were in His mind? John's gospel might be said to concern heavenly things.
Ques. Would not all this give the Supper a bigger place in our affections?
C.A.C. Yes, indeed. We need to dwell more on the death of Christ. If we think of the immense place it has in Scripture, it shews how great it is in the mind of God. If we connected heavenly things more with the death of Christ it would enhance it. God is bringing out in these things the immense preciousness and value of the death of Christ; He is in heaven, but He is the Person who died.
In the book of Revelation He is seen as the Lamb; and the bride is the Lamb's wife.
Ques. Is the thing enhanced by what it says here, He offered Himself, not often but once?
C.A.C. That is most blessed. He has been manifested "once" for the putting away of sin by His sacrifice. That is one of the most absolute statements. He became incarnate for that very purpose.
Rem. John the Baptist apprehended this; he said,
"Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world", John 1:29.
C.A.C. Yes. The thought in Hebrews 1 is that He has made purification of sins for God; the defilement of sins was removed for God; it looks at the matter from the side of the detail of it. The sins are looked at in detail. The history of the world has been a history of sins. He has made purification of sins; He has done it within the compass of His own Person; He has done it for God.
You get the thought of the putting away of sin by His sacrifice in Hebrews 9:26, and you get the bearing the sins of many in verse 28; both aspects are brought in. There is the principle of sin that has come into the universe of God, this terrible principle of sin that has to be put away. God cannot tolerate the principle of lawlessness: He cannot forgive it; He must have it put away, and it has been put away sacrificially.
Ques. What is the meaning of "foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20)? Is that before sin came in?
C.A.C. That is important. All heavenly things are connected with purpose; they go back for origin before the foundation of the world. God had the death of Christ in mind before ever sin came into the world. By one man sin entered into the world: before that man came in, God had another Man in mind. He had a universe of bliss before Him connected with that one Man. "In the volume of the book it is written"; there is a book that belongs to eternity and in that book the Lord says, "to do thy good pleasure, my God, is my delight" Psalm 40:8. He does it through death -- all that is connected with purpose.
Ques. Are we weak on the purpose side?
C.A.C. Yes, I suppose we are slow to get to God's side of things. We think of our side and do not get to God's side. Have we a definite idea in our minds of what the will of
God really is? The Lord became Man and died in order to do the will, or good pleasure, of God. Have we an idea of what that is? The question is, What is the Father's will? The prodigal was ready to be a hired servant, but that was nothing but wretched pride. He was as little worthy to be a servant as a son. The father's good pleasure was to have him robed, ringed and shod, but a son. The wonderful thing about the parable of the prodigal is that you are not told the secret. The secret is the death of Christ. How can we have the robe or the ring or the sandals without the death of Christ? The death of Christ is the explanation of everything. I could not explain why I am a son, but the death of Christ is precious and glorious enough to secure it all. It is due to Him that it should be secured.
Rem. His death has put us out of sight.
C.A.C. On one line it has put us out of sight and on another line it has brought us into sight as part of the heavenly system of things. F.E.R. said, 'God puts you between His love on the one side and the work of the Spirit on the other. Between the two you disappear'.
It is very good to get such an impression of the good pleasure of God that we do not mention anything to Him that does not please Him.
Ques. Is the thing summed up in, He "is able to ... set you with exultation blameless before his glory", Jude 24?
C.A.C. That is the God we know and worship! All this is a treatise on worship -- how the worshippers come to God to please Him. You find in coming in contact with believers that their thought of the will of God is how God would have them behave and where God would like them to go, but the will of God is far greater than that. "I come to do thy will"; it is all Christ's work.
Rem. The first man was made of dust and was unfitted for heaven.
C.A.C. Yes. If Adam had not sinned he would not have
gone to heaven; he would be living still in an earthly paradise. He was made out of dust; he was made for earth, not for heaven.
All this at the end of Hebrews 9 is the setting aside of sin. That sacrifice having been offered, there is not going to be anything more done for the removal of sin sacrificially. We do not see the effect yet, but all has been accomplished. God has been glorified as to the question of sin in the whole universe: that principle of lawlessness and rebellion that came in at the outset in the devil has been judged in the death of Christ. It was the serpent that was lifted up; the mischief was traced to its source, the serpent; that has been judged in our Lord Jesus Christ. It is not simply that sin in the flesh has been condemned, but the principle of sin has been condemned. It was condemned when Christ was made sin on the cross.
Rem. It says in verse 28 that Christ bore the sins of many.
C.A.C. Scripture does not say that Christ bore the sins of all; it is important to see that. The bearing of sins is limited. He bore the sins of many: He died for all; that opens the door of blessing for all. He is the propitiation for the whole world. He only bore the sins of the elect. The thought of election comes in because God knew every soul who would believe on His Son, and the sins of those were borne by Jesus: "Who himself bore our sins in his body on the tree", 1 Peter 2:24. That should make us very careful about sin. If I say an unkind word, or give place to a foolish thought, or speak what is not true, Christ had to suffer for those sins. We call things failure, mistakes and weakness, but God calls them sins; they were borne by Jesus; this should make us very careful and very holy people.
When He appears the second time there is no question of sin at all, there is no reference to sin when He comes again. It is not the rapture, it is a statement that we can
take up ourselves; we are looking for the appearing. It is to those who look for Him that He will appear without sin unto salvation. We are looking for the Lord's appearing. To all who look for Him will He appear. He has gone in but He is coming out, and until He comes out the golden bells are chiming. There are many proofs today that Christ is alive. The fact that we are sitting here and enjoying Him and meditating on Him and His death is a proof that He is living and will appear with no question of sin but unto salvation.
C.A.C. Our attention was called last week to the fact that Christ is in heaven representatively. He has entered into heaven itself now to appear before the face of God for us. The will of God in regard of His saints is seen in all its blessed reality in Christ as in heaven.
Ques. What is the difference between God speaking in Son in Hebrews 1, and what we have here, Christ entering "into heaven itself, now to appear before the face of God for us"?
C.A.C. The one is the converse of the other. God speaking in Son is God coming out to men. Christ entering "into heaven itself, now to appear before the face of God for us" is the answer to that. God speaking in Son is God speaking out the declaration of Himself; the answer to that is the Priest going in representatively. The will of God is to be learnt in Christ.
We were speaking last week about the tendency there is with many to get the will of God before them in regard of practical details -- how they walk and what they do. That has its place, but we get the right thought of the will of God
as set forth in Christ in heaven. The great point in this epistle is to make us familiar with heavenly things, and heavenly things centre in Christ gone into heaven. He is there representatively, so all whom He represents are heavenly as He is. We may depend upon it that divine love will serve us in our necessities, circumstantial and moral, but if He appears before the face of God for us, He appears in glory and beauty. No one could question the suitability of Christ to be in heaven itself, but the wonderful thing is that He represents a vast company. His priestly glory is before us in Hebrews.
Ques. How is that meant to affect us on earth, that He represents us in heaven?
C.A.C. In order to give us the greatest liberty in approach to God.
Ques. Is it like Luke 15 -- the shoes on our feet?
C.A.C. That is the line. The great object of this part of the epistle is to set us free to go to God, which I am afraid we do not know much about. We know a little about God coming to us but the majority of believers know very little about going to God.
Ques. Is this the climax of approach?
C.A.C. The climax is that Christ has entered into heaven itself and we are all represented there; that is the will of God. Everyone goes in with Him; if He is there for us representatively we all go in with Him. The hymn of J.N.D. says:
Do we believe it? That is the will of God. We are heavenly as He is; that is christianity. If you understand that that is your place according to the will of God you will like to go to God.
Ephesians is full of the will of God. We get there the mystery of His will, the counsel of His will and so on; all is connected with heaven. We bring the will of God too much to earth. If we know what it is to have a place in heaven it would liberate us from the corrupting influences that have a damaging effect on our practical walk.
In Hebrews we are seen in heaven representatively. It is the will of God; everything that stood in the way of our knowing it and enjoying it has been perfectly and eternally removed. Christ came to do the will of God; that involves His dealing with all that stood in the way of His called people approaching God. Christ took up the question of sin and sins, but that was not His object. He came to do the blessed will of God, but to do that He had to take up the sin question or we should have been hindered from entering into the will of God. We needed to be perfected in our consciences from the sin question in order to enter into the will of God. Nothing is more blessed than the will of God, the will of supreme love.
"He takes away the first" (verse 9); that refers to the whole divine system embodied in the tabernacle and its services. They were the best in this world but they were not the will of God. They were a shadow; therefore they had to give place, for the will of God must prevail in the universe. It is wonderful to get hold of that. We serve God by coming to Him in intelligent appreciation of His own thoughts. That delights God; God's great pleasure is that we should come near to Him in intelligence and appreciation of His own will. If every moral question were not settled we could not be in appreciation of His will. The dealing with sin and sins by Christ was essential but it was incidental; the great thing was the will of God being established. We need a great increase of liberty; one feels that amongst the people of God there is a great lack of liberty. God loves to be served in liberty. All this is the witness to His love. You
are not going to have anything better in heaven than the love of God. I do not expect to have anything greater to fill my soul with rapture than the love of God. The Holy Spirit is pouring the love of God into hearts now; that is heaven; there will not be anything better in heaven than that. It shows how great this is that we could never have known it apart from the death of God's Son and the gift of the Spirit.
Those are the two great realities; it needed them both in order that we might know the love of God.
Ques. Does not chapter 10 shew the wonderful way in which divine Persons have moved in order to secure this?
C.A.C. The good things to come which are referred to repeatedly in this epistle have arrived. They arrived in the outshining of God. Christ has entered into heaven itself and the good things have arrived. No one could say that there were better things to come. The millennium is a lower order of things; it is the earth blessed but it is not heaven itself.
In Hebrews "God" is mentioned more than "the Father", although "the Father" is mentioned in chapter 12 in connection with chastening.
The consummation of all blessedness is that God is to be all in all; that is the highest point reached in eternity.
God's countenance beams on Christ; God can say, 'My will is secured and established in that blessed One before My face'. He represents the whole company at the present time.
There is no such thing as collective approach apart from individual approach. If I do not approach individually my coming into the assembly will not cause me to approach.
Ques. The knowledge of that love must produce response?
C.A.C. Surely. It is important to see that the sacrifices they offered yearly did not perfect those who approached.
The best Jew that ever lived would have been terrified to go into the holiest.
Ques. Is the holiest the answer on our side to approach?
C.A.C. We approach as being in liberty. We should encourage each other to approach. Every christian in this room knows what it is to pray and to get answers to prayers -- even the youngest here knows that -- but that is not approach.
Ques. Is approach more under the priestly service of Christ personally?
C.A.C. In Hebrews we have the priestly support of Christ. Unless we had the Priest we could not approach. Where He is we are, and are entitled to be. Coming to God means that you are delighted to go to God. The psalm says, "Unto the God of the gladness of my joy", Psalm 43:4.
Ques. How does this 'going in' work out practically every day?
C.A.C. It is an experimental reality. Most believers on the earth have never known what it is to approach. They confide in God in their circumstances; they have learned how God has approached them, but to know that God is delighted that we should approach Him is a different exercise altogether -- you do not want anything. Mr. Mackintosh said that approach was like a boy who knocks on his father's study door. The father replies, 'What do you want?' The answer is, 'Father, I want a pencil'. Ten minutes later he comes to his father's door for something else he wants. The third time he comes and knocks and the father asks what he wants this time and the reply is, 'Father I do not want anything but to be with you'. That is the idea! The fact is there is a great lack of liberty. Believers are relieved from pressure but they are not in liberty, they are not conscious of being objects of delight to the heart of God. If I go to Him He is delighted to see me; that gives me liberty.
Ques. We get the thought of the throne of grace earlier in this epistle. Would that be prayer?
C.A.C. The throne of grace is favourable. Your Priest is there and you can come boldly to the throne of grace for what you need and it is granted to you.
Rem. David went in and sat before Jehovah.
C.A.C. He had been listening to God's wonderful thoughts about him and he goes in and sits down and has a sense of how wonderfully God has acted. We read, "The worshippers once purged having no longer any conscience of sins", Hebrews 10:2. That is a fine thing!
C.A.C. That is true of every believer; if it were true to him he would have liberty. To approach is that you are completely abstracted from everything, even the circumstances that are connected with this present world. If a man went into the holiest he would be abstracted from the whole scene of nature.
Ques. This is not specially for the morning meeting?
C.A.C. Why should I limit my privilege to one hour in the week? We shall not approach when we come together if we do not approach through the week. It necessitates spiritual movement, "Let us approach" movement. Do we habitually accustom ourselves to go apart to be with God? It is no thought of prayer but abstracting ourselves from creature conditions and going to God where only God is. That is what the Spirit is moving us for in this epistle.
Ques. What is the meaning of "His flesh"?
C.A.C. His incarnation. His flesh covers everything that was secured by His becoming flesh and going into death. The veil is His incarnation -- a divine Person become Man -- so a new way is opened up. A new way that is paved with love, His flesh makes it possible. All this magnifies the incarnation, which God has been calling
attention to of late. "Thou hast prepared me a body" is in contrast with all the sacrifices and offerings. "Wherefore coming into the world"; that is His flesh; that is the hinge on which all stands. It was the will of God that that prepared body should be offered. There is the offering of the body of Jesus Christ. The fact that He is the Testator means that He is God Himself and yet the Testator dies.
Rem. It is striking that the Spirit uses the word "body" here, it being "ears" in the Old Testament.
C.A.C. Yes, it is. Those who translated the Old Testament into Greek translated the word "a body hast thou prepared me", and the Spirit has adopted that translation here in Hebrews. The ear is the characteristic member of man's body. In the reckoning of God the ear is the most important member of the body. So it is very important to give a right place to the ear. He shews here that the body which was prepared has been offered, and having been offered He is in a new condition. It is no longer the days of His flesh; that body which He came in in flesh has been offered and the efficacy of that offering has established the will of God. The will of God is established through the death of Christ. The incarnation is a human term; it is not in Scripture. The strict meaning of the word is that a divine Person has come here in flesh and blood; "The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us", John 1:14. But He remains Man for ever. His body has been offered; He is raised in a new condition; He has gone into heaven representatively. He is in a glorified condition now. The will of God is that many sons be brought to glory. It is a new condition, a spiritual body in contrast with a natural body. We are all going to have spiritual bodies. We have never known Christ after the flesh, but we have the inspired record of what He was. We know that all He was morally He is still, in another condition but still Man. "Coming into the world", He says certain things that
are in the roll of the book; that refers to eternity, but Christ takes up the language in time -- we must not attach the thought of obedience to Him as in the form of God. The thought of obedience is not connected with God. The roll of the book is connected with purpose and counsel. What was written in that book in eternity was to be taken up and voiced by a divine Person having become Man, but you could not think of a divine Person knowing obedience. "Coming into the world, he says, ... Lo, I come (in the roll of the book it is written of me)", but His utterance "Lo, I come", was as coming into the world. To carry the thought of obedience into the past eternity is derogatory to His divine Person and glory. We cannot be too clear on this point.
It is all worked out by a divine Person coming to a condition in which obedience was possible. Obedience is not possible for God. Who is He to obey? If we think of God becoming Man, He comes of His own will: "I am come down from heaven", John 6:38. It is His own act as a divine Person. He says, "not that I should do my will, but the will of him that has sent me". There He speaks as coming into the world as Man. It says in Ephesians that He descended -- that was His own act. In John He says "I ascend", that was His own act; He goes in the dignity of His glorious Person; He ascends to the Father.
C.A.C. The place the Spirit has taken in the economy of grace is patterned after the place Christ took. The Spirit has been pleased to take a subordinate place. One divine Person has taken a subordinate place to another divine Person who has also taken a subordinate place. The Spirit in that subordinate place speaks of what He hears; He does not speak from Himself. The Spirit descending on Christ is the act of the Holy Spirit as a divine Person. The whole
of the epistle of Hebrews has a golden thread running through -- the deity of the Son.
C.A.C. I suppose we might regard the entering into the holiest as the climax of the epistle.
Ques. What is in view in entering into the holiest?
C.A.C. It has in mind the service of God viewed in relation to His own will and His own purposes.
Ques. Is worship one thought of it?
C.A.C. I think that enters into the service of the house of God. If we are to serve God or worship Him acceptably it must be as those who enter into His thoughts. I suppose the holiest is looked at as the place where we become spiritually intelligent in all that is in the mind and heart of God.
Rem. The psalmist said, "I went into the sanctuaries, then understood I", Psalm 73:17.
C.A.C. Yes; there it is in regard of his perplexity in seeing the wicked prospering and that they got on much better than he did in spite of his piety. In the sanctuary he got intelligence and saw God's way was in the sanctuary. It is wonderful to see what God is about. He can only be rightly served or worshipped by those who know what He is about. God likes to be understood -- we all do. I believe the greatest pleasure of God is to be understood.
Ques. Is all service towards God in the holiest?
C.A.C. The service of God takes place in the assembly. Approaching in the holiest is to make us intelligent persons for the assembly; no one acts intelligently in the assembly who has not been in the holiest.
This epistle contemplates a tabernacle, a greater and more perfect tabernacle than the one Moses made. It is not of this creation; it is a tabernacle which the Lord has pitched and not man. We have to think of a spiritual tabernacle and the holiest is the innermost part of that tabernacle. The thought of a tabernacle is a dwelling-place for God amongst men.
Ques. Would Mary of Bethany illustrate one who understood the Lord?
C.A.C. Yes, I think she might be an illustration of a person in the holiest. If we all knew what it was to approach in the holiest, all our utterances in the assembly would be intelligent. That is the thought of His service, ministering what is a delight to God. What He delights in is that He is understood. There are a people on earth who understand Him; they are priests and sons and have access to the innermost shrine of His thoughts and purposes.
They enter into all that and that is service to God. He is pleased with them; that is the idea of service.
Ques. How does that come about practically?
C.A.C. All the distraction around makes the privilege more wonderful. We can leave the distractions around and come in spirit to a place of divine rest. The holiest is where the ark rests.
C.A.C. Yes, it is the privilege of the priestly family. We need to understand that we have boldness to enter the holiest by the blood of Jesus. The thought of the holiest is vague and misty to many of us but it ought not to be. It is really very simple.
Ques. Is it connected with the blood carried in?
C.A.C. Yes, the blood of the sin offering. In connection with that the ground on which Aaron went in was the ground on which his sons could go. That is the meaning of the scripture, "He that sanctifies and those sanctified are
all of one", Hebrews 2:11. Christ has entered in with His own blood by a way that we can go in too. When Aaron offered the blood of the bullock it was for himself and his house. The first one to get the benefit was Aaron.
Ques. Is there light in regard of the way and state of the believer? We need light as to the way in and then state to enter.
C.A.C. The state comes afterwards. You see the way in and what is there objectively first.
Ques. In connection with apprehension as to the way into the holiest, do you think that the sovereignty of the Lord gives light to some more than others? Many souls are distressed at their smallness, but the Lord would have us exercised but not discouraged.
C.A.C. We are all equal in the value of the death of Christ; that is divine teaching. These Hebrews were babes. Are we amongst the called ones? This epistle is addressed to people who are partakers of the heavenly calling -- that is all on the divine side. Every one who has remission of sins is entitled to go into the holiest. You have to learn the way in; you learn it in Christ. Christ has gone in; He has not only come out but He has gone in and that is the way we can go in.
Aaron and his sons all put their hands on the head of the bullock. That is the point of view in Hebrews; we are not sanctified by any process in ourselves, but in the death of Christ. He has gone in with His own blood; all the saints go in on the same ground. All are put on the ground on which Christ is; He has taken up ground which He was never on until He went through death. He has taken up with God sacrificial ground; that is the ground on which the whole priestly family can go in. It is what is effected by the will of God and the death of Christ.
Ques. Is "all of one" His order?
C.A.C. The fact that we are of His order is connected
with the work of God in us, but there is something greater than that, namely, what has been effected on God's part by Christ and through His death. Christ could go in to God on the ground of His own blood. Christ went in first and because He went in others could go in. It is illustrated by the thief. The Lord said, "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise", Luke 23:43. Jesus was going in and the thief could go in on the same ground, the value of His blood.
Rem. No other ground could give holy liberty.
C.A.C. Quite so. We do not let the light of this enter into our souls. This chapter speaks of being illuminated. The way in is dedicated. The way in is the point here; it is dedicated by His going in Himself. He took up flesh in order that through death He might go in to God. There is no expression of God's purpose in Christ after the flesh. It is through death that He goes in; He goes through the veil by His own death. He took up flesh to make an exodus from the present state of things. He dedicated a way for us to go in. He came to this new condition. We must see the thing in Christ. In the Gospels the thought of the rent veil is God coming out; in Hebrews the veil is clearly connected with going in.
Rem. It has been said that there is no rent veil in Hebrews.
C.A.C. Yes, but you have to see the idea that Christ has dedicated a new and living way in. That way in is opened up for every one of us, old and young; whatever we are, there is only that one way.
Ques. What is the thought of the living way?
C.A.C. It is the contrast with the old dead system of things. If He goes through death He leaves behind all that is old and dead and He goes in as Priest representing a great company.
Ques. Is the first part objective and the second part subjective?
C.A.C. We get the opening up of the way first and then, "Let us approach". If you see the love of God in the opening up of the way you want to go in, and that raises the question of state. You begin to move before you realise how necessary these things are.
Ques. Is it the same as "I am the way", John 14:6?
C.A.C. It is the same kind of thought. He is thinking of our coming to the Father. He is the great Priest over the house of God; this is a great objective and attractive reality. Everything that is objective in a divine Person is attractive to those who love God. A "true heart" means that we love God.
Ques. What about a wicked conscience?
C.A.C. You need to be liberated from that: your conscience is wicked when it keeps you away from God. Anything that keeps you from God is wicked; a good conscience would lead you to God. A wicked conscience is that character of conscience which makes a man run away from God. We all know that the conscience works that way in the natural man; it makes him shun God and keep out of His way. A man's conscience makes him afraid of God: that is a wicked conscience. The conscience is a very important thing. I have said sometimes it is the most valuable thing you have now and yet it will be of no use to you in heaven.
Ques. What is the meaning of "washed as to our body with pure water"?
C.A.C. It is the death of Christ applied morally. Whatever came under judgment judicially in the blood has to go morally by the water. This epistle speaks of the blood of sprinkling.
Ques. Is there any thought of the laver?
C.A.C. This whole scripture is an allusion to the consecration of the priests.
Ques. Would a sprinkled conscience be additional to a purged conscience?
C.A.C. Here the affections are brought under the blessedness of the sprinkling, so you are liberated in your affections from a wicked conscience that would hold you away from God. Sprinkling in Scripture is a greater thought than washing. The heart is sprinkled; the affections are liberated from that action of conscience that keeps you away from God.
If we could take in these great objective thoughts it would help us much, because the objective is always the greatest. What is true in Christ must be greater than what is true in me.
Think of His coming here in flesh to go to God on the ground that we might be there with Him as His brethren! He has dedicated the way by going Himself; that is a great and blessed reality. He is a great Priest. He is there in the full intelligence of the purpose and love of God in regard of the sanctified. He is Priest to attract us. All that is in the thought of God in regard to us is perfectly set forth in Christ. Am I attracted by seeing the blessedness in which Christ is as Man? He can have the sanctified ones with Himself. He is Priest over the house of God; He brings God's thoughts to bear in regard to the whole house. If we realised this, how intelligently we should take part when we come together!
Who understands the ark, the mercy-seat, Aaron's rod that budded and the tables of the covenant as Christ does?
He is calling us to come where these things are perfectly understood. That is the holiest; you come where the thoughts of God are understood perfectly by Christ. See what a gain it is to have such a Priest to maintain everything in its fulness. He understands sonship, His brethren and so on. He understands them all, and if I get near to Him I shall understand too. It says, "Let us approach".
Things are vague to us because the greatest realities are in the holiest and we know so little of it. The Lord calls us to follow Him through death; none of these things can be learned from Christ after the flesh; there was no new and living way in the days of His flesh. He says, "I have a baptism to be baptised with, and how am I straitened until it shall have been accomplished!" Luke 12:50. All the purposes of God for men were hidden while Christ was here after the flesh.
This epistle emphasises the thought of greatness. God Himself is called "the greatness", Hebrews 1:3. Christ is a great Priest; He causes the thoughts of God to dominate over the house of God, so God is served acceptably and according to His pleasure.
Ques. What is the meaning of "Which the Lord has pitched", Hebrews 8:2?
C.A.C. He pitched it as having come through death and having set up the divine system with every detail perfect to God. Things are set right. The tabernacle is the thought of a dwelling where God dwells among men and where He can be approached and His most intimate thoughts can be known. If we think for a moment of the prodigal; when he got to his father's house and sat at table my impression is that he had very little to say. In the holiest you do not say a word; you do not speak; you are there to learn. The prodigal would have drunk in the divine pleasure and divine thoughts. In the holiest we come to take it all in. You are silent in the holiest in order that you might have something to say in the assembly. If what we said in the assembly was the result of what we had learnt in the holiest it would be worth listening to.
It is a great thing to apprehend christianity as a system of perfection without a flaw. There is no flaw in the covenant nor in the Mediator; there is not a flaw in the
system. It is a great thing to understand the system we belong to.
Ques. Is this the normal result of what is priestly?
C.A.C. Yes. The disposition of God as known in the covenant means the way He has disposed of things. God's disposition of things reveals His heart. A man's will is how he appoints things to be done. How has God disposed of things? He is going to bring many sons to glory, that is how He disposes of things. He begs us all to approach, "Let us approach". Well, if we want to approach that raises moral questions, the state of our conscience, heart and body even. If I do approach God everything must be suitable. A worldly man could not approach God. If people are converted to God they love God and would like to have as much to do with God as possible. The nearer we get to God the better off we are.
J.B.S. used to tell of one who had a dream. He dreamt he was visiting the king's palace. At the gateway he was received with courtesy; at the door he was received with greater pomp, and as he visited various rooms his reception was always greater than the last, until finally he came to the throne-room where he was received with acclamation! I think that just illustrates what we are speaking of -- how wonderfully benefited we are the nearer we get to God.
Ques. Would the body being washed be our associations?
C.A.C. It would be outward purity. We are to be marked outwardly with the purity that belongs to priests. Do people recognise that we are priests? There should be a purity about us as having to do with God. Are we walking about as priests?
C.A.C. It is a great thing ever to keep before us that the will of God takes effect in all the value of the death of Christ. The will of God in its full sense and import is not something that remains to be done but something which is absolutely and eternally secured in the value of the death of Christ. To see that is very establishing and liberating. If we are thinking of the will of God we are not thinking of ourselves.
Ques. Would the perfecting of this will indicate that the full light of this dispensation has come in?
C.A.C. It comes in for persons who need establishing in the truth of it. The Hebrews are addressed as persons who had become dull of hearing and persons slow to enter into divine realities, so we can all come in. The youngest, feeblest and dullest of us can come in to the great and precious truth concerning Christ and His death and the will of God secured by Him through death. It makes no demand on us. It is all depicted by one act; nothing can be added to sanctification by the offering of the body of Jesus Christ. People think of sanctification as a process carried on in themselves, but sanctification is effected by the offering of the body of Jesus Christ.
Ques. It is effected once and for all, and yet there is the practical side of it, is there not?
C. A. C. Yes, very practical. If I take in that by God's will I am part of a company sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ; what I am sanctified from and what I am sanctified to I need to understand.
Ques. We get in John 17, "Sanctify them by the truth". Would that apply to believers generally?
C.A.C. Yes. The truth is what has been effected by God's will and by Christ's death; that truth has to be brought home to us so that we stand in the good of it. The Lord says, "I sanctify myself for them". The Son of the Father sanctified Himself -- He took a place apart from this world and from sin and death; that is the measure of our sanctification. It is the truth that sanctifies us, nothing is so sanctifying as the truth.
Ques. Are we set apart in Hebrews for the service of God?
C.A.C. That is the idea; we are sanctified -- set apart -- for the holy service. It is done once for all. It was an accomplished thing and was never repeated. It was effected nineteen hundred years ago.
Rem. The present system that is set up of men is very damaging to souls and to the effect of this.
C.A.C. Yes. The whole company of saints are viewed as sanctified by God's will, and the offering of the body of Jesus Christ has effected the whole extent of God's will. So the sanctified are perfected, "By one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the sanctified" (verse 14). In verse 10 we read, "by which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all". This is a divine reality, and then we read that by one offering He has perfected in perpetuity the sanctified. All this is designed to give us a profound sense of the greatness of the death of Christ. God would have us to think much more of it than we do.
Ques. Does this verse that we are thinking of bring in the divine thought that is brought in in Christ?
C.A.C. Yes. These people were in the babe state. Hebrews is a child's book, it is for spiritual infancy. Christ and His death and its amazing results are for you to look at and bow to and worship. The youngest babe in Christ can contemplate it.
Rem. The Spirit of God calls attention to "this Man", Hebrews 10:12, (Authorised Version).
C.A.C. Yes, in contrast to the multitude of sacrifices that never took away sin. Now an effectual sacrifice has been offered and sins are all put away. The saints are perfected in perpetuity -- the thing stands. We may realise it one day and not realise it another day, but the thing stands whether we realise it or not. No question of sin can be raised any more.
Rem. Where He has gone He has set Himself down for ever.
C.A.C. Which shews He is a divine Person. Having accomplished this wonderful sacrifice He has set Himself down, so the sins of the sanctified are eternally settled. The question of sins cannot be raised again either by God who never remembers them any more, or by the devil. This is the character of the speaking; it speaks of the sacrifice which removed the sins of the sanctified eternally. They are sanctified in perpetuity.
Rem. Even the high priest on the day of atonement could not do this.
C.A.C. No; there is no type of this, although Psalm 110 is prophetic of it.
In the case of the Hebrews they were under the influence of the system they had been in. The system was judaism; they had been under that influence and they were thus kept in a state of babyhood. We are surrounded by the influence of the corrupted profession of christianity and the thoughts in men's minds which are not divine thoughts at all. That will keep those who are under that system in babyhood.
Rem. Paul is an extraordinary model of one who, although connected with an earthly religion, yet came into liberty in what came in in Christ.
C.A.C. Yes. It is liberating and there is need that we
should take it in. Everything that could have hindered us from taking up the service of the holiest has been removed in the sacrifice of Christ. That stands for God and it stands for faith. The thing is not to take up anything that is contrary to what stands for God.
Ques. You have spoken of God's will and the offering of Jesus Christ; is that why the Spirit is brought in in verse 15?
C.A.C. Yes; he brings in the witness of the Spirit; that is the subject here. In Jeremiah the Spirit had given a certain witness and that abides as a living witness. What God said as to the new covenant -- putting it in their hearts and minds and not remembering their sins any more -- is the present witness to us.
Ques. What is the right hand of God spoken of in verse 12?
C.A.C. The settlement of every moral question. He has so settled it that He can take up the most favourable position towards God. Our sins are gone and are never to be remembered any more.
Ques. Is it mostly sins in Hebrews?
C.A.C. Yes, He takes up the question of sins because He is dealing with the thing practically. If the sins are gone the man is gone too. If the sins are gone by means of death, death is the end of the man that sinned; so dealing with sins involves the setting aside of the man. The epistle to the Hebrews looks at it thus; as a man in the flesh there is nothing attached to me but sin. If that is so, and the sins are disposed of, I am disposed of too because I have never done anything but sin as a man in the flesh. We have to come to it that as children of Adam we have never done anything else but sin, so nothing but sin is connected with us. If the sins are removed the man is gone that is connected with the sins.
The sense of the value of the sacrifice is most important
and gives liberty for this extraordinary proposal. It is proposed that we should go into the holiest; that is a most amazing thing; there is no type of that in the Old Testament, and no promise of it either.
Ques. Has He not dealt with the sins of the present time?
C.A.C. The range of this scripture is the sanctified -- persons marked off, God's called ones -- called of God and sanctified in the death of Jesus Christ by God's will. This scripture applies to them.
Ques. Have we to work out the practical result in our localities?
C.A.C. We must keep before us that the theme is the service of God. How many souls in this locality are liberated in soul for the service of God? There are two parts in service, the service of the altar and the service of the holiest. Those are the two great parts of priestly service.
Ques. Would you go into it a little for us?
C.A.C. I am thinking of Numbers 18:7. Jehovah says to Aaron, "Thou and thy sons with thee shall attend to your priesthood for all that concerneth the altar, and for that which is inside the veil; and ye shall perform the service: I give you your priesthood as a service of gift". That defines these two branches of priestly service -- that which concerns the altar and that within the veil. What was in the mind of God was the present time; it is only now that there has been any service rendered within the veil.
Our brother was asking as to the two kinds of service. We have the altar first. The gifts and offerings concern the altar. That is the external part; the altar is outside in the court of the tabernacle; the altar has to do with what takes place publicly. The thought of offering is not prominent in Hebrews because the object of the Spirit is to furnish us with something to offer. "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise continually to God, that is, the fruit of the lips confessing his name" Hebrews 13:15. That is altar-wards;
it is public. "We have an altar": there it is the priestly part going along with Numbers 18 where the priestly eating is the great subject. If we had more offerings we should have more to eat.
Ques. Does the altar bring in service?
C.A.C. Yes, priestly service. The Levites helped but the offering is priestly.
C.A.C. Scripture intimates that there is a service inside the veil which is part of the priestly service and must not be neglected. There is a tendency with us to think more of the altar service than of the service within the veil, but that is not right.
Ques. What is the character of the service within the veil?
C.A.C. It seems to me that it is the concern of the writer of this epistle to get us to go there. "Having ... boldness for entering into the holy of holies by the blood of Jesus ... through the veil ... let us approach", Hebrews 10:19 - 22. It is as if to say, try it, try this unheard-of thing. If we get inside we shall know what to do when we get there. We get the service of the altar in detail in Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers, but we have no detail of the service that is within the veil. You are at liberty to go in, but you must go in in a certain condition. If you go in in that condition, you will know what to do when you get there. We know more of the altar service than of that within the veil. There is not a hint in either the Old or New Testament as to what the service within the veil is.
Ques. Would you regard the service within the veil in Numbers 18 the same as on the day of atonement?
C.A.C. I had an impression that it did not refer to the service of the day of atonement because that is no part of normal priestly service. Aaron had to disrobe to do the service of the day of atonement; it was the basis of all the
service, no doubt. The service of priesthood, of the altar and within the veil, in Numbers 18 has no reference to the day of atonement; it refers to an everlasting statute. What is perpetuated is the service of the altar and the service within the veil. It must have been astounding to pious Jews to whom this epistle is written to think of going within the veil. Yet the veil which was formerly a barrier is now the very thing that attracts.
We ought to get more words from the Lord; it is a sorrow that we get so little from Him. In Numbers 7 Moses speaks to God and God to him, and then Moses speaks again to God. So in the morning meeting if we speak to God He responds, He gives a word through a prepared vessel. The effect of this is that there is more speaking from God to us and from us to God. Christ takes His place in the midst of the assembly; He comes in as Head to sing the praises. It is wonderful, He takes a place on our side.
The service within the veil would make us more wealthy than the service of the altar because you go to the immediate presence of God! What an effect that would have on our whole spirits, souls and minds! We would be saturated with thoughts of divine love; we would come out to the service of the altar -- to what is public -- and what a power there would be for the service of the altar. The same things might be said but what a freshness and unction there would be in the offering! The point here is to see the amazing efficacy of the death of Christ. If we pondered the way of liberty, the nature of it secured by the death of Christ, it would set us free for the wonderful intimate approach to God. The public side depends largely on whether in private we know what it is to approach in the holiest.
C.A.C. We have been speaking of the privilege of going into the holiest as the place where we get intelligence in the mind of God. Then it would appear that it is to work out in the life of faith here. The holding of the confession of the hope would not be within the veil but outside.
Great confirmation and encouragement would be derived from approaching God in His secret place. One has thought of the encouragement and strength that was, no doubt, the result of being on the holy mount with Jesus. What a wonderful thing for the brethren, a testimony that left a lasting mark on them as we know from what Peter wrote in his old age!
Approach in the holiest is intended to qualify us for holding the confession of the hope without wavering.
Ques. Do you gather strength in the holiest?
C.A.C. Yes, we gather strength by becoming acquainted with what God has before Him. He brings it about by Christ. Then what we learn inside is a matter of hope; that is, everything that God has before Him for blessing His people is all future except in Christ. It is present in Christ but future as far as we are concerned; hence the prominence that is given to hope in this epistle. We are strengthened through going within the veil.
Ques. Would you say that the more we know of entering the holiest the more we are in secret with the heart of God?
C.A.C. Yes. J.B.S. used to say that entering the holiest corresponds with 2 Corinthians 3; beholding the glory of the Lord we are changed, transformed into correspondence with God. It is wonderful to be permitted to go into the sanctuary in a more wonderful way than the
saints of old could go in, and to get intelligence there of what God is doing and in the light of that to hold fast the confession of hope. I think that confession comes out in a hostile scene where Jesus died. Confession largely consists in making much of the brethren.
C.A.C. We shall make much of the brethren if we have been in the holiest; we shall get a wonderful thought_ of them in the holiest. We shall find no failure or defect or blemish in the holiest. Wonderful thoughts are entertained of the brethren there! This gives you great interest in the brethren and you come out of the holiest filled with desire to encourage the brethren. We need to get away from all that we see with our eyes and get to that region where we see with spiritual vision. In the holiest there is nothing but what is divine; the thought of the blood is divine, and the thought of the glory is divine; there is no stain on the divine glory.
Ques. Would not verse 24 support what you are saying as to the brethren?
C.A.C. I thought so. The confession of hope lies in the fact that the brethren go on together and encourage one another in the light of what is within the veil.
Ques. Would it be the same thought as enquiring in the temple?
C.A.C. There is the thought of enquiring in the temple and getting intelligence in the sanctuary, whether as to the end of the wicked or in the way of God. His way is known in the sanctuary.
Ques. Would holiness be God's way of things?
C.A.C. I thought so. That would give us capacity to encourage one another. It seems to me that the thought contemplated in the assembly being together is that we come together because of our interest in one another. Does not every one come to give? We come to encourage one
another; it encourages the brethren to see one another at the meetings. Every sister might think, 'It costs me something to get to the prayer meeting, but it encourages the brethren to see me there, so I will go!' That is the principle. The brethren all need encouraging; there are many depressing influences around us. We forget sometimes that the brethren are a suffering, disciplined and sorrowing people; therefore the prophetic ministry that the Lord gives us is for encouragement, edification and consolation. I like the thought of that; there is something consoling about all prophetic ministry.
Rem. What helps in our ways with our brethren is going within the veil; then we come out with changed thoughts and ideas.
C.A.C. Yes. You do not want to come to the meetings with a depressed spirit; one who does so cannot encourage others. It is the man who has been comforted and encouraged that can encourage and comfort others. Going within the veil is what can give us the best comfort.
Ques. Is this for sisters as well as brothers?
C.A.C. Oh! yes. Sisters can go into the holiest as well as brothers, and come out and hold the confession of hope and be in the meetings with peaceful and happy countenances, which gives encouragement.
Ques. Would the love of God within the veil affect us in coming out?
C.A.C. Yes. If we are to see the brethren according to truth, we need to be educated for that. We look at them too often as in the flesh. The value of going into the holiest is that you view the brethren as represented there in the great Priest. What we are in the flesh does not enter into that at all; going into the holiest gives us power of abstraction from that. You think then of the meetings quite differently. What are the meetings? They are the spots
here on this earth where everything precious to God is cherished.
Ques. What is the difference between the holiest and the assembly?
C.A.C. We learn to assemble together by being in the holiest. The illumination within the veil would help us to assemble together with wonderful thoughts of God, of Christ and of the brethren. So in coming together the divine thought is encouragement in view of testimony. Going into the holiest is a privilege that is available at any time.
Ques. Is the holiest an individual experience?
C.A.C. Yes, but the grace and virtue of it would come into the company. If one brother came into the assembly who had been in the holiest he would colour the whole meeting. J.B.S. said that the most spiritual person in a locality, whether brother or sister, gave character to that locality.
One was thinking of the setting of it here; we consider for one another in verse 24; we do not forsake the assembling of ourselves together in verse 25 but encourage one another, and in verse 33 they not only suffered but became partakers with those who were passing through suffering. They were in sympathy with their suffering brethren. There is much suffering going on amongst us now in other lands. The saints assemble as in the light of the holiest.
Rem. We often go to the meetings for what we can get, but we should keep this side in view.
C.A.C. When we go to meetings for what we can get, sometimes we come away disappointed because they do not come up to our standard; but if we go to encourage one another we get all we need and more.
The hope is very distinctive; it brings the whole range of
divine thoughts into view in their completeness. You look at the saints in the light of all that. It would help us much and we should be prepared to encourage one another.
It is an awful thing to forsake the assembling of ourselves together; it is not supposed in the scripture before us that any one would do that but an apostate.
We are on the ground of the faithfulness of God. He is faithful, He is going to put through to the finish every one of His thoughts in regard of His people. The present exercise as to meetings for ministry is the practical working out of that. Meetings for ministry are a necessity in the divine economy.
Ques. Would you say more as to this?
C.A.C. It is evident that 1 Corinthians 14 was never intended to be a dead letter. That scripture is a good word for us today; there is a tendency to let that means of edification drop out, "So much the more", he says.
Assembling together is the point here, not gathering to the name of the Lord, but assembling together. The brethren assemble because of their interest in one another; here it is not the Lord that attracts you but the brethren, that you may encourage one another.
Ques. Would you suggest that the meetings for ministry should become an exercise in our various localities?
C.A.C. I think the Lord has raised the exercise and He does not intend it to fall to the ground. It will produce exercise -- love and faith and exercise and prayer before God. It was for lack of these that this kind of meeting failed and became formal.
What comes out in this part of the epistle is that the just one lives by faith. God singles out 'my just man' as if there was only an odd one here and there (See note to Hebrews 10:38).
Rem. This epistle is not written to only one assembly.
C.A.C. No, these principles are general. We go into the holiest and learn there God's thoughts about His people, then we come out to encourage one another. There is a danger of people drifting off. It is a tremendous exercise if anyone leaves the brethren; what have we been doing? They should have realised that their life depended on being with us. We have lost a good many, and I think that the scripture in this epistle applies, "Make straight paths for your feet, that that which is lame be not turned aside", Hebrews 12:13. Those that are lame are the ones we sometimes want to get rid of! We are to make straight paths that they might be healed. Their walk and ways may be wrong but what are we to do? Walk right ourselves and get them healed.
Of course I am not talking of wilful people. Nothing can be done with people who are wilful. At the beginning of christianity there was a company with all sorts of failure amongst them but they were walking together in the light of Christ, and if any one left them it was apostasy, and the principle still holds good.
The day of the Lord is coming and the Lord alone will be exalted in that day. All that is of man is coming under judgment in that day.
Rem. Malachi speaks of those who feared the Lord and spoke often one to another.
C.A.C. That is the spirit of it. There should be great power of encouragement in the meetings.
C.A.C. It skews that there is no work of God in the soul at all. A man may join the christian company and have no work in his soul and then he gives it all up. No true believer could ever apostatise. "They shall never perish" (John 10:28); that means that they will never apostatise. With the apostate there has never been any real link with the Lord. Judas was in great nearness to the Lord and
engaged in His work, but he had no link with the Lord at all. Forsaking coming together means that. Professing christians who become adversaries are not true believers; they forsake the assembling together as in this chapter. But the principle of it is a solemn warning to us.
Rem. Demas had forsaken the apostle.
C.A.C. We are told that he left the apostle because he loved the present age. The last you hear of Demas is that he was moving from Paul. We should be exercised about these things. Thank God the saints are exercised.
It is wonderful how the saints are drawn together. Think of the numbers that assemble now for the ministry of the word! A great reason for such numbers assembling is the delight the saints have in the pleasure of being together and the Lord has pleasure in that too.
An old man was once asked why he came at great personal cost to the meetings when he could not hear a word. He replied, 'The Lord likes to see me there and the brethren do too!' Nothing pleases the Lord better than to see us drawn together in love. It is quite a feature of these last days that the saints are drawn together, whether it is for prayer or the reading of the word. What spiritual value there is in a company like this tonight! All here are loved by the Father and the Son -- all are redeemed -- what spiritual value there is in that! What a wonderful thing to sit down and speak together as those who have a living interest in these things! We are all so different and yet we can come together without a jarring note. The Lord encouraged those women who resorted to the riverside, and I think if there were only sisters in a meeting the Lord would send them a brother sometimes. I believe there is a peculiar pleasure in being in the company of the brethren even if we cannot speak a word.
C.A.C. It is fairly easy to see as regards the Old Testament saints that their faith laid hold of what was future. In the light of what is still future they suffered and passed out of this world without gaining anything outwardly. This is as true for ourselves; our portion is 'in the ages yet to come' as we sing sometimes. God is still maintaining the faith principle and the faith system is in contrast with all that is in the world and all that can be seen. Faith really links on with the purpose of God. The purpose of God in Ephesians is to place the saints in the heavenlies. No one can see that. It is a wonderful scene where Christ is sitting in the heavenlies, but none of us has seen Him.
Ques. It refers here to not casting away your confidence. Would you explain that?
C.A.C. I suppose they had known earlier days. It says, "Call to mind the earlier days". In those earlier days they had been prepared to suffer reproach and be joined in sympathy with those who were suffering. There is a tendency with us of those earlier days not being maintained: it is an exercise for us all. In the earlier days it pleases God that there should be freshness and reality so that there is something there that God can appeal to, as He said to Israel, "I remember for thee the kindness of thy youth, the love of thine espousals, when thou wentest after me in the wilderness, in a land not sown", Jeremiah 2:2. These Hebrew saints had suffered when they were first enlightened and had been connected with others who had suffered and they are told not to lose their confidence. There is a danger of stopping short. Miriam is one of the most pathetic pictures in Scripture -- she died just in sight of the land. It is a
solemn warning. Miriam represents at the beginning a happy believer; she went out of Egypt with dances and sang a beautiful refrain -- "Jehovah ... is highly exalted". She was happy in thinking of the triumph of Jehovah, but she took no account of what was great in the song of Moses, that is, the purpose of God, how He is going to bring His people in and plant them in the inheritance. So she stopped short of the land and never reached it. It is a warning not to cast away your confidence. It is a great thing to keep the purpose of God in view. The youngest believer can cherish Ephesians 1 and 2 as God's will for them. It is only a short time before the Lord comes; when He comes He will introduce us into all the purpose of God for us. In the meantime we live by faith; we not only believe but we live on that principle.
Ques. Is faith a peculiar characteristic of this dispensation?
C.A.C. Yes, and it links on with what has been in the past, as chapter 11 shews.
Rem. In Romans we see the kind of people who live by faith -- the righteous; in Galatians we live by faith in contrast to law, and in Hebrews it is a question of life -- we live by faith.
C.A.C. It seems so; you put the emphasis on three different words in the quotation. The thought of living is that we are for God's pleasure; that is the idea of living here. It is suggested in, "If he draw back, my soul does not take pleasure in him". Living is in contrast to drawing back to the world and the religious system that does not value Christ. We should covet to LIVE. Nothing in our lives is any pleasure to God except that which is in faith. If we do not come to this meeting in faith we are not pleasing to God.
Rem. In the gospels the Lord was refreshed by the different instances of faith.
C.A.C. Yes. It is really what stands connected with the purpose of God, what God has in mind. In this epistle we get great things presented to us objectively -- the deity of the Son in chapter 1, and the manhood of Christ in chapter 2.
The sacrifice of Christ and the priesthood are largely presented in this epistle. These are marvellous things which throw into the shade this world and all that is connected with the system of sight. The purpose of God comes in in connection with the calling and it is on that line that the saints come into view as marked by faith and the divine nature. That is the subjective side: love to God's name as manifested towards His people; that is all on the line of purpose.
Rem. The apostle said, "I live by faith, the faith of the Son of God", Galatians 2:20.
C.A.C. Yes. The life he lived in the flesh he lived by faith of the Son of God. He walked by the light of an unseen Person: that is a wonderful thing. I ask myself sometimes, 'Am I walking in the light of what is unseen?' If I am walking in the light of what is seen I am no pleasure to God.
Rem. I suppose the Lord's coming you were speaking of is in connection with the coming glory. It is not exactly the rapture.
C.A.C. No. I was speaking of the time when all that is known to faith now will be known publicly. It is a great thing. I have thought sometimes that there is no time in our history when life is so in evidence as it is when we are in the assembly. What are we occupied with there? If we take the poorest morning meeting that there ever was, what is before the saints? What is unseen. Every hymn or prayer or word of ministry relates to what is unseen. As far as we enjoy that we live.
Ques. Is it the same as, "He also who eats me shall live also on account of me", John 6:57?
C.A.C. It has often been remarked that that text refers to Christ as Priest. We live on account of the Priest; that goes well with Hebrews.
Ques. It has often been said by unconverted people, 'Shew us some element in regard to unseen things'. Does that lend force to the word 'faith'?
C.A.C. We expect the world to walk by sight, but those who come into the purpose of God are partakers of the heavenly calling and heirs of promise by faith.
Rem. These men in Hebrews 11 had not the Spirit as we have it.
C.A.C. No. The faith world is the only world worth looking at. What is this world with its schemes and improvements? It is a vast graveyard. The world of science is a dreadful snare, especially when it takes a religious form. Grand buildings and beautiful organs are all part of the sight system and there is nothing in that for faith. It is helpful to see that the idea of living is being pleasurable to God.
Rem. That must be the faith system.
C.A.C. Yes, because faith takes account of what is pleasurable to God. God takes no interest in the schemes of men. We want to be vital and to have things vital and they are only vital as they are in faith. The holiest is the place where you can be abstracted from the sight system. You spiritually reach a spot in the assurance of your faith where there is no intrusion of the sight system. Nothing is present to consciousness but what is within the veil. What a wonderful thing to live for five minutes there: it would change us for the rest of our lives. We come to the climax of things in having the privilege of the holiest. In the Old Testament we have the thought of going into the sanctuary, but that is intensified now; the holiest is the innermost
shrine. God would speak to us of the world to come. God does not talk to us of this world, but of the world to come, and christians characteristically talk of the world to come. It says, "the habitable world which is to come, of which we speak". It has often been remarked that from the outset of sin God had in view the world to come. From the garden of Eden He had in view the crushing of the serpent's head. The world to which the serpent belonged was going to disappear to make room for another world which would be all of God.
Ques. Would faith always stand in relation to Christ?
C.A.C. Yes, surely. We need to remind each other of this because there is a continual tendency to go back to the present world instead of getting more and more interested and occupied with the world to come. We get the most solemn warnings that there are in scripture in this epistle. They would not be there if we did not need them.
Rem. Newspapers would detract us from the world to come.
C.A.C. One would not like to live in this world. We may have to touch it, but I would not like to live in it. We may have to work and get our temporal living in the world, but we should live in the faith world.
Rem. You alluded to Demas last week; it says of him that he "loved the present age".
C.A.C. Yes, and it is a solemn thing to be said of a man that he loved the present age, because it is of such a character that in a short time God is going to sweep it away with the besom of destruction. What a dreadful thing to love that world! I feel that we need to encourage one another in relation to this great matter of living by faith.
Ques. What is the world to come marked by?
C.A.C. By the exaltation of Christ and the dominance of all that is of God. All the things that are despised and thought nothing of in this world are what will mark the
situation. It will not be a faith system then, but a time of sight.
Rem. It speaks of the proving of your faith.
C.A.C. Yes. Peter suggests that faith will be tried by fire. God has pleasure in having it tested. If you had a bit of pure gold you would not mind putting it in the crucible because you would know that it would come out purified: so God has pleasure in putting faith to the test.
The idea of recompense is present. Moses had respect to the recompense. He had great recompense: fancy being forty days in the mount with God, looking at the pattern of heavenly things and becoming a repository of divine confidence! Was not that better than the treasures of Egypt? If we give up a bit of the world, think of the things we have as recompense! That is the measure of our faith -- what we have been prepared to give up. There is a great system of things hoped for. You can see it in the faces of the saints in assembly; they are a people divinely happy in the presence of unseen things; things are profoundly real if they are unseen. God loves to give some distinct assurance of the reality of these things. In one sense faith gives a proper outlook on seen things; see Hebrews 11:3 -- "By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that that which is seen should not take its origin from things which appear". Faith enters into our apprehension of creation as connecting it with the unseen Creator. This delivers us from the wretched ideas men have as to creation.
Ques. Does it stand in contrast to Romans 1:20, things perceived by the mind?
C.A.C. There is adequate testimony, even by things made, to the eternal power and divinity of God. Every human being comes under responsibility and is without excuse. "There is no speech and there are no words, yet their voice is heard", Psalm 19:3. It is a silent witness. God
is speaking from the heavens to every one of His creatures. There is enough testimony from the heavens to convert a man without his having ever heard the gospel. I am quite certain that where in such cases the testimony of nature is received and souls turn to God from a life of sin they will be eternally blessed.
Ques. Is there any difference between the world being framed and being created?
C.A.C. I thought the word 'framed' suggested a great design in it all. The word of God framed it all, so everything speaks of God. God has designed it to speak of Himself.
Ques. Does the word 'divinity' speak of God characteristically?
C.A.C. It is God in His creatorial majesty. Divinity is what God is characteristically as the great Source of creation; all testifies to His divinity. Creation testifies to His power and divinity; it is not a moral testimony. A watch shews the great skill of the watchmaker but it does not give his moral character. A man might make a good watch and be a bad man!
Ques. Why does Hebrews 11 start with Abel, not Adam?
C.A.C. The wisdom of the Spirit has passed over Adam; there is no thought of deriving anything from Adam.
Ques. Have we to start with a right idea of God?
C.A.C. God in His greatness must be before the soul first and then the necessity arises for knowing Him morally, so the thought of sacrifice comes in, which Adam did not take up. We do not know that Adam ever brought a sacrifice. The coats of skin were the divine provision, but what the Spirit brings out here is man's side.
Rem. Adam stands in contrast to Christ, so it would not be right to bring in Adam.
C.A.C. Quite so. Any reference to the faith of Adam is
of an obscure nature. He called his wife Eve; that is the only indication that he had faith. He called her life; if he had not had faith he would have called her death, as she brought death in. There were not moral exercises in Adam as we have in Abel, who brought in a sacrifice. Adam got the benefit of a sacrifice but we are not told that he brought a sacrifice. Abel did; he is an advance on Adam. This chapter is a wonderful progression in faith: it goes on to the point of the gentile being in the land. Every incident adds to our conception of what faith does. It is cumulative, you have to put it all together. You get the principle of faith at the outset and then you have a system of household management in which every detail is in faith. Everything that is done in the household is to be done in faith.
C.A.C. There seems to be a thought of substance connected with faith. "Faith is the substantiating of things hoped for". The things that are seen are nothing, but faith is a most real thing. Another scripture says that the dispensation of God is in faith. "By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that that which is seen should not take its origin from things which appear", Hebrews 11:3. I wondered whether there is a thought connected with that, that God is framing the moral universe, from which the physical universe takes character. God is framing a moral universe on the principle of faith. God is referred to as the Artificer and Constructor of a certain city. God is engaged in a constructive work. In framing the worlds He had in view a moral universe which would be pleasurable to Him and of His own construction.
Then there are the stars of the sky and the sand of the sea innumerable; it is the thought of a divine scene, a universe that comprises the heavens and the earth; it all has its answer in a moral universe. God is forming us to be constituent parts of that universe; we are formed for it in faith. We see these elements brought out in the Old Testament worthies; they shew the material. The wonderful thing is that God should use the whole visible universe and all that has come into it -- such as sin and death and the veiling of God -- in order to frame this wonderful moral universe. It brings in the thought of a universe marked by moral and heavenly splendour. There is nothing so splendid as the heavens; the sun is the most glorious object there is and the stars are a wonderful thing. All that is figurative; the stars are figurative of the saints, who are going to shine in spiritual splendour, but who are formed in faith. The faith period is the most wonderful time.
Rem. The physical universe will pass away.
C.A.C. I suppose it will; Scripture speaks of it passing away. There will be a suitable setting for all that God is forming in faith; there will be conditions of glory suitable to all that God is forming in faith. God is forming now indestructible material for His universe. The light of God is brought into the souls of His creatures to be substance there for ever. All these worthies bring out different aspects and elements of this wonderful universe of faith.
The first element of faith comes out in Abel. It is wonderful to think that God had a universe that rested on death. What substance there is in the faith of Abel; he could offer to God a more excellent sacrifice! He had the thought in faith that God was going to move on the line of sacrifice. Adam and Eve got a covering through death, but Abel got a thought of excellence as uncovered by death.
Ques. Would you say a word as to the moral universe being founded on death? Is that the purpose of God?
C.A.C. Yes. Peter speaks of a Lamb without blemish and without spot, foreknown before the foundation of the world. God had a moral universe in mind before He founded the world.
Ques. Did death form part of the purpose of God?
C.A.C. It is the basis on which all the purpose of God is carried out. The purpose of God is proportioned to the value of the sufferings and death of Christ. The whole system of glory is divinely proportioned to the sufferings and death of Christ. That will give value to the purpose of God. We have all been accustomed to say that God's purpose is for the satisfaction of His love, but what gives God satisfaction is that His purpose is proportioned to the sufferings and death of His beloved Son. These things are below the horizon of the sight universe. God looked with approval upon Abel and on his offering. It met with God's approval; it was in line with what God had in His own mind.
Rem. He looked on Abel and on the offering.
C.A.C. Yes, God looked on him. That man commended himself; he is suitable material for the universe that God is framing.
Ques. Abel brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat. Does that speak of the moral excellence of Christ?
C.A.C. Yes. God purposed to set up things on the ground of perfect devotedness to Himself and surrender to His glory. Those are the true foundations on which God frames His universe. It is all seen in Christ.
Ques. What is the thought of the burnt offering?
C.A.C. Abel's offering was not quite a burnt offering. It is called an oblation.
Ques. What is the thought of the oblation?
C.A.C. I think the idea of being presented to God is a great thought; something presented that God could
appreciate because of its excellence. There is no thought of its being burnt; it does not say that Abel burnt it. Noah brings a burnt offering, but that thought is not seen in Abel's offering. In Abel's offering we get the thought of its excellence to the Lord and that all is uncovered by death; it is not exactly burning. God seemed to give the choicest thoughts to faith first. Nothing is greater than the substance of faith in Abel and Noah. God begins with the best.
Ques. Does God set forth the substance in the death of Christ?
C.A.C. He brings out the offensiveness of it to the natural man. What God delights in is very offensive to the natural man. Abel's own death becomes a figure of the death of Christ; one chosen of God and precious is cast aside as worthless by men.
Ques. Is the death of Christ connected with His becoming increasingly offensive to man in the flesh?
C.A.C. The thought of blessing coming in on the ground of suffering and death becomes increasingly offensive to men. It speaks in Revelation of there being war with the Lamb, as though the thought of the Lamb had become offensive. It is the work of God to put this particular feature of faith into our souls. In Abel's offering it is not a question of covering sin, but that the death of Christ has uncovered before God all His preciousness.
In this chapter we have a city that has foundations. What a foundation is Christ in death for God's delight! We do not wonder that it takes Abel so long to finish what he has to say! I do not know anyone who has so much to say as Abel; he has been speaking for six thousand years!
These different instances of faith are cumulative, they are not detached sections. Enoch is Abel carried on: so you must put these different worthies together and bring in Jesus at the end to get the complete thing which sets forth
the substance of faith. Abel has so done with himself that he does not need to think about himself; he is occupied with the excellence of Another. That is a fine thing! There is no way of having done with ourselves save as being filled with Another! It may only last five minutes, but it is a good five minutes.
Ques. What is the moral feature in Enoch?
C.A.C. Enoch had a good deal of exercise in order to find God; he had to seek Him out. He believed that God is and that He is a rewarder of them that seek Him out. Enoch would never have walked with God if he had not sought Him out. God came to seek Adam and Eve; that is the gospel aspect, giving them divine righteousness and clothing them, but with Enoch it is a man seeking God. He was bent on finding God. He lived in a terrible time; the world was far worse then than now. A lot passed between God and Enoch in those 300 years during which he walked with God. A moment came to Enoch's soul when he knew that God is, and not only that but that God was worth finding. He is a rewarder of them that seek Him out.
Enoch sought God and when he found Him he walked with Him three hundred years.
Ques. How does that work out now?
C.A.C. Was there not a time when you thought it worthwhile to seek God? There is a wonderful word in Acts 17
26, 27. God takes a certain course that men might feel after Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. The greatest treasure is God. What is of more value to a creature than God? He is the greatest Object of pursuit that there could be.
Enoch was a disciplined man; his name means 'disciplined'. If he had not been disciplined he could never have come to the conclusion that God was worth finding. For sixty-five years God put him through discipline. No one seeks God until they are disciplined. God disclosed to
Enoch the great thoughts He had in His mind, that is, the relieving man of death. In Thessalonians it says, "If we believe that Jesus has died and has risen again" (1 Thessalonians 4:14). If we believe, there is no reason for us to die. Enoch walking with God learns of the rapture, he learns of something that has not taken place. He learns it in his soul so that he was ready to be translated. Before he was translated he was convinced that he was going to be translated. Enoch did not expect to die.
Ques. Was his life in accord with it?
C.A.C. That is very important. What is connected with the rapture in a very solemn way is the judgment of the world. One looking for the rapture and the appearing would be a very separate man. Enoch prophesied that the Lord has come amidst His holy myriads. There must have been but a handful of saints in Enoch's time, yet his faith saw holy myriads and the Lord amongst them. He did not see death.
Methushelah lived longer than any. His name means, 'When he dies it comes'! The flood represents the day of judgment and it came when Methushelah died.
Ques. Is there any thought of importance in the seventh from Adam?
C.A.C. It suggests a kind of perfection. A man who is translated without seeing death is a kind of climax. It is God's complete victory over death, founded on the death of Jesus. There are volumes in these simple statements. All these died in faith without receiving the promises. They got nothing outwardly but they had the substance in faith. The ungodly man leaves all that he has behind him; those who die in faith go to where the substance belongs. It is a great general principle that God will reward any of us who take the trouble to seek Him out. None of us will find God unless we seek Him out. There is a great difference between God finding me and my seeking God out. God
becomes the portion, joy and heritage of those who seek Him out. The question of righteousness and how we stand with God has been settled in Adam and Eve and Abel; now in Enoch we get a man who seeks out God and that pleases God.
Then Noah gives you a third thing -- a third part of the substance. The thought of public witness comes out in Noah. We find him publicly condemning the world and thinking about his house. The household thought comes in here; he was moved with fear -- that is a motive that should act on us. We are apt to be slack because we are not influenced by fear. It is brought in as a feature of Noah's faith; he is warned of something that is not visible, and he is moved with fear. An awful judgment was coming. We ought to be much influenced by a fear of what is coming on this world: appalling judgment will devastate this scene and we are not sufficiently in fear. With Noah the fear made him concerned about his house; he prepared an ark for the saving of his house.
Ques. What are we to learn from all this?
C.A.C. Noah got no converts, but he condemned the world; there is public testimony. Nothing is saved that is not under cover of the death of Christ; that is the idea of preparing the ark.
Ques. Was not his testimony more what he did than what he said?
C.A.C. Yes. There was a practical testimony against the world which made him a laughing-stock. Noah preached and God waited and the ark was prepared, all went on concurrently. If my walk is not a condemnation of the world, it is not the walk of a saint. That is part of this substance out of which God is framing His moral universe. You see people now who look on baptism as the world does, that it is a decent thing to do, but you must go on as you begin. Parents baptise their children because they
realise that it is perilous not to be under cover of the death of Christ, but they must keep them there. How can a parent want his children to get on in the world if he has baptised them? He will want their path ordered of God and not by earthly ambition.
C.A.C. There is a divine proposal to Abraham in a different way from anything that had come before. I do not know that any saint is "called" before Abraham. In Abel, Enoch and Noah you get faith, movement towards God, but when you come to Abraham the movement begins on the divine side.
Ques. Do you get the sphere of faith in operation in the first three men?
C.A.C. Yes; you get the great outline of the dispensation in which faith finds its opportunity. There is an inscrutability about the Person of Jesus in that He can carry through in His own Person every moral feature proper to man. All the elements that go to make up a world for God's pleasure are made up in His own Person.
Ques. What is the thought of Noah preparing an ark for the saving of his house?
C.A.C. Typically it includes all that is going through to form the elements of the new world.
Ques. Stress is laid on water. Would you say something about that?
C.A.C. The stress is on the water rather than the ark. Peter connects it with baptism. We must get to that side of things to be prepared for the divine side.
Ques. Would saved by water suggest that there must be
the moral application of the death of Christ? Souls are saved by water -- that is the moral side.
C.A.C. That is important as forming part of the idea of baptism; it is not a mere rite or ordinance. In the religious world baptism is regarded as indispensable, but with them that is the end of it instead of the beginning.
Ques. Would these verses suggest the obedience of faith?
C.A.C. Yes; being called, he obeyed. The condemnation of the world preceded morally the apprehension of divine calling. God had a purpose before Him; that is the idea of calling. God has a definite purpose.
Ques. Would Abraham being called out of country and kindred be more than the world as such?
C.A.C. Yes, it is a calling out of the natural links. What is before God is something different from Canaan. Abraham understood that, so his thoughts and hopes were connected with a spiritual and heavenly order. It must have been surprising to the Hebrews to think of Abraham and others having the heavenly before them. God had His present ways and purposes in view and intended to make Abraham a pattern for the saints of the assembly; God's intent was to make him a man with the heavenly in view. Abraham got a wonderful impression of what was before God -- he waits for the city. It is remarkable that God gives to him what we call heavenly light. While his outward setting was connected with the earth, his real substance was connected with God's heavenly purpose.
Ques. Is that the city of Revelation?
C.A.C. Yes. The land of promise, when he got there, was a foreign country.
The snare of the Hebrews was that they were hindered by what was connected with the earth in a religious way.
Ques. Galatians refers to the glad tidings being announced to Abraham. What do we gather from that?
C.A.C. It involves the thought of blessing, that God should be known in blessing for all nations; it was to be found in Abraham and in his seed. He gets to know God as the God of blessing: when He is thus known it is what God is. This holds good for all nations, and it is not restricted to any particular family. Abraham had the word of God that all nations were to be blessed in him; it was on the faith principle -- blessed in Isaac, blessed in Christ. All blessing is on the principle of faith on the line of Abraham; all blessing in Christ risen is outside the scope of man after the flesh; it is on resurrection footing. All that was to lead to the heavenly blessing and inheritance which God brought out typically in Abraham; so he did not get the land. God was thinking of the heavenly, and Abraham's faith laid hold of the purpose of God in the heavenly. These people who were seeking a country dwelt in tents, and it was not only old brethren but young ones. Jacob was only fifteen when Abraham died. It shews that there is room for boys and girls to be in this line.
Rem. In verse 10 the foundations of the city are spoken of in the present tense.
C.A.C. Yes; he looks at the preparation of the city as having been made. It says in verse 16 he has prepared for them a city.
Ques. Why is the city so prominent in regard to Abraham?
C.A.C. I suppose it is the existence of Babel that gives rise to it. Abraham had seen the building of Babel; man's city was coming into evidence. Abraham having seen the God of glory, gets a sense in his soul that God has a city and it takes all the shine out of the Babel world. It is very remarkable that God should bring the accomplishment of His thoughts so distinctly into the view of Abraham -- so that he waited.
Ques. Why is the thought of foundations in the plural?
The city in Revelation had twelve foundations. Is there any link with this?
C.A.C. There are twelve apostles of the Lamb -- all comes in on the line of suffering; that has been the principle of construction. It is in contrast to man's city. This city, which is on the principle of construction set forth in the Lamb, is in contrast to all that marks the building of Babel.
Ques. Is the calling connected with purpose? Had God all this in His mind before sin came into the world?
C.A.C. Yes; all is clearly in view from the foundation of the world and even before it. God has an organised system of things before Him in which all that is of Himself is secured; that is His purpose. He brings it about on the ground of the sufferings and death of Christ.
Ques. "He has chosen us in him before the world's foundation", Ephesians 1:4. Does that apply to Abraham?
C.A.C. That is more the peculiar place of saints of the assembly. God has in mind to satisfy every exercise and desire that has been found in faith from the beginning. He prepared for them a city; God in forming a city had in mind to satisfy every exercise of faith and spiritual desire that He put in the hearts of Old Testament saints. It shews how necessary the assembly is to the Old Testament saints, a necessity to their faith and hope. This is the faith period in a more distinctive way than was the case in the Old Testament; it is all brought our in the city.
Ques. What is the thought of God as Artificer and Constructor?
C.A.C. The thought of the skilfulness of the work in detail would be seen in the Artificer. Constructor would be more a general idea. It says that the heavens are the work of His fingers -- not His hands but His fingers. It suggests the detail of skill which marks the works of God. We see it in nature and all that is a picture of the moral
work of God. If you put the finest work of man under the microscope it would spoil it and would reveal flaws, but if you put God's work there you see perfection that was never noticed before. If we look at that in the moral sphere we can have no conception of what we may see. Look at the man in John 9; every movement brings out the skill of divine work. All is secured in the assembly first so that the all-various wisdom of God is seen there. Divine skill comes out there. We ought to be affected by these things; the youngest amongst us could say, 'I am a bit of that'. Then we should be more passive under the skill of the Artificer. It says, "Yield yourselves to God" (Romans 6:13); the divine Artificer is working, but the material must be yielded to Him. You do not wonder at its having the glory of God, because every detail in it brings out God.
Ques. Why is Sarah brought in?
C.A.C. Sarah is brought in to show that the city is to be populated; it is not an empty city. This principle of the conception of seed is a very important element in faith.
Ques. Is "artificer and constructor" in contrast to the earthly construction of Bezaleel? God's work must be of Himself.
C.A.C. Quite so. The model was there before they made the tabernacle. People used to have models of the tabernacle, but the model I like to see is there in the heavens -- all that God had before Him in the mount. A glorified Christ in heaven is the Model and all is to conform to that Model.
C.A.C. What he saw was in principle eternal because the tabernacle idea is an eternal thought, it goes into eternity. What was seen in the mount was an eternal conception of God. It was realised when the Lord was on earth. The true tabernacle idea was realised when He tabernacled amongst His disciples. They contemplated
His glory. God was there. That is the picture of the eternal state when God will be with men, so it does link with the city.
Ques. What is the difference between Sarah's faith and Abraham's?
C.A.C. Sarah's is more the subjective side. There was active energy of faith in Abraham to go forth; with Sarah it is counting Him faithful who has promised. It is the state which takes account of the faithfulness of God to secure the seed to inherit the promises, whether heavenly or earthly. That is an important element. Everything that is brought to pass on the subjective side is through the faithfulness of God.
Ques. Does the subjective side apply to us?
C.A.C. Yes, because the seed is secured on this line. It is an exercise for us whether we are able to count on the faithfulness of God in regard of securing the seed to inherit. It is a question of faith counting on God. That is important in a day when all counteracts the production of a seed to inherit.
Ques. "As the stars of heaven, and as the sand that is on the seashore", Genesis 22:17. Is that what will people the new earth?
C.A.C. It looks on to what is eternal. The new heavens and the new earth are to be furnished with a population that is able to take up all that is in the purpose of God, whether heavenly or earthly. All is secured in a resurrection power which secures things livingly out of death.
C.A.C. These reviews of Old Testament history are very interesting, whether we think of Stephen's defence or Paul's preaching at Antioch or this great recital of the actions of faith. They seem to indicate that if we are to have an understanding of God's present mind we must be familiar with His ways and His work in the souls of men. I suppose every feature of faith that is brought out here is brought out with design in order to impress on the Hebrew believers in Christ a great spiritual lesson that is as important for us as for them. Every feature has a present bearing.
Ques. Do you mean that this chapter is in a sense cumulative?
C.A.C. Yes. It helps to remind us that Scripture is the word of God to us. It is not a history but the word of God to us now. How encouraging it was to the Hebrew believers to see that Abraham had to learn this lesson, to give up Isaac after the flesh and to get him in a new way, in resurrection. There is a divine testimony in all these things; each feature has to be taken up by the Hebrew believers and by ourselves. It is important for us to understand and learn this lesson of the giving up of Christ after the flesh and getting Him again in an abiding condition as risen. He is outside the life of the flesh and outside the whole scene where the life of the flesh is.
Sarah counted Him faithful that promised, and Abraham having taken to himself the promises in Isaac is prepared to offer him up, being assured that God would raise him up. The promises could not be separated from Isaac, so that if Abraham offered him up, it brought out
the power and faithfulness of God; He would raise him. All this has a direct bearing upon us. It is not only that the promises are secured in Christ but in Him as risen. It is the greatest type of the risen Christ; there is none more distinct than that. Everything that God has for man is in a risen Man. God gives us a start outside the history of this world and outside all that is of the flesh and outside Christ after the flesh. From Abraham onwards we get the thought of the calling; even as to these Old Testament saints it was a heavenly calling. It must have been astonishing to these Hebrew believers to think that these worthies were looking for what was heavenly. The whole point is to put us on the line of the heavenly, a risen Christ who is outside this world altogether. God has lengthened out the church period so that it is the longest period there has ever been, and He delights to do it. Christ has been rejected here; His rights have been disowned and refused, but God has raised Him up and there are those on earth who are partakers of the heavenly calling. So God has a particular delight in this period; He has great delight in the calling and in the substantiating of things in a risen Christ.
Rem. We are not to regard ourselves as poor things who are waiting for a better day.
C.A.C. If we get to the divine side, and that is what faith takes account of, we get the voice of rejoicing in the tabernacles of the righteous all the time. God did not try Abraham because of his weakness but because of his value. God knew there was a bit of solid gold that would stand the crucible without diminution. The trial of faith is not anything to be deplored or depreciated; it is precious. God tries faith to bring out its value and preciousness. The severest test of the crucible shews how precious it is. We all have to come to the point where we are tested as to whether we are occupied with something this side of death, or something the other side.
C.A.C. No, the present. That is where Christ is, He is on the other side of death.
Rem. There is a reference to Isaac as the heir.
C.A.C. Yes, the inheritance must have an heir. The inheritance is heavenly. If we get before us that the purpose and calling of God are heavenly and the Heir is Christ, we come in as joint-heirs; but Christ is the Heir. The whole of christendom is built up on the supposition that Christ after the flesh and in relation to this world is the key to God's mind! It leaves them in the wrong place and with the wrong man before them.
Ques. Is "from among the dead" important?
C.A.C. Yes, the resurrection of the saints is from among the dead also.
Ques. Does this section set forth the Almighty God? Should we not know Him as One who is controlling things?
C.A.C. Yes. "He that draws near to God must believe that he is". That lies at the root of things. Paul says at Athens, "If indeed they might feel after him and find him"; that is the initial movement in the soul, a desire for the One who is unknown, a desire to feel after and find Him; that is a good beginning. In Athens they got to Jesus and the resurrection; that is a further development. This becomes a reality in the soul by the work of God; there is nothing apart from that. It is a fine start for any soul, whether heathen or christian, to know that there is a God and to desire to know Him.
Rem. Abraham believed that God would give Isaac back to him out of death.
C.A.C. That is a great step in advance, that God should be known as able to set death aside.
C.A.C. Yes; that is where the almightiness of God
comes out. This is the language of Paul in Ephesians 1"what the surpassing greatness of his power towards us who believe, according to the working of the might of his strength, in which he wrought in the Christ in raising him from among the dead" (verses 19, 20). That is the almightiness of God. We should pray for understanding of the power of resurrection; we assume to understand it when we do not. The apostle prayed in Ephesians 1 that the saints might know it. "Making mention of you at my prayers ... that ye should know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints". Abraham had come to that.
Ques. If we are not to know Christ after the flesh, how are we to be conformed to His image?
C.A.C. It is not that Christ in resurrection is any different morally from what He was after the flesh, but He is in a new condition outside flesh and blood, a risen Man. Morally there is no change. He is the same yesterday, today and for ever; there is no change in Christ morally, but there is an immense change in His condition. If resurrection power were not with God, death would be the end of everything. All this is important in learning to separate between Jacob and Esau.
Ques. Would you enlarge on that?
C.A.C. By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. I do not know that Esau had any part in the line of faith, but he represents man after the flesh with an outward place of blessing. He has no real link with the purpose or calling of God. He typifies those who are content with the place of privilege and favour on earth without any appreciation of the true birthright. Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau, but on Esau's part there was no appreciation of the birthright, no appreciation of the heavenly. It ends in his being destroyed absolutely. The Spirit of God has in mind that in this epistle to the Hebrews
there were certain persons who were participating in the precious things of christianity, and they had no vital link with the purpose and calling of God. It raises an exercise whether we do not often come to the meetings and lead respectable lives on earth and yet have no link vitally with God.
Ques. Was not Judas like that?
C.A.C. No unconverted man had such a place of favour as to be in association with the Son of God, walking with Him, hearing His words, seeing Him perform miracles, as Judas had, and yet he was a profane person.
Ques. Are not the two blessings distinguished here? Esau's blessing was connected with himself and the earth, whereas Jacob was blessed spiritually.
C.A.C. Yes. Esau was told what the end would be; he would cast his brother's yoke from off his neck. According to God, Jacob would lord it over Esau, and that was to be the key to blessing for him. Esau proved lawless in regard to the one who was the subject of God's election.
Rem. God promised that in Isaac there should be blessing as the stars of heaven.
C.A.C. Yes, and Esau represents those who miss the blessing, those who do not come into blessing. After having outward privilege they turn out lawless and rebel against the sovereignty of God. Look at the favour that people are in in the circle of christian protection! In the darkest part of christendom there is light enough to save men's souls. There is an outward place of favour apart from conversion. Esau represents that character of blessing. People know of Christ and of His death and resurrection and yet have no appreciation of Him. Am I interested in the heavenly or am I only interested in what is outward and earthly? It is a serious exercise for us all. Esau sets forth an earth-dweller. At the present time there is a great danger of professing christians (and it applies to us
all) being earth-dwellers, of being occupied with earth and losing sight in a practical sense of the birthright. There is no blessing for the man after the flesh; he is given a place of privilege outwardly but there is no blessing for him. We have to learn to accept sovereignty. Does God bless the children of christian parents automatically? No. God is sovereign; God is entitled to pass my child by, so I seek His mercy. He is sovereign; you get everything on the line of counting Him faithful who promised. We have no title to anything except the sovereign title love gives. That is why sometimes the children of christian parents are not blessed until the parents are brought into submission to the sovereignty of God. We must recognise sovereignty. Isaac would have preferred to bless Esau! But he had the mind of God, and Jacob was the one that God chose, so faith blessed Jacob first. It was a great principle to submit to divine sovereignty. God sets aside natural preferences -- that is Esau -- God passes that by.
Ques. Why do you speak of mercy?
C.A.C. Nothing but sovereign mercy will secure blessing for anybody. Sometimes parents have to accept that before children are blessed. That is the only ground of blessing. I cannot expect my children will be blessed because of their natural connection with christian parents. They are blessed because God chooses in sovereignty to bless them.
It is beautiful to see that the household is linked up in the thought of God with its head. Through faith in the Lord Jesus there is salvation for the whole house, but individually they come in by pure sovereignty and mercy.
C.A.C. It is important for us to see these various actions of faith. They are not merely interesting matters in regard of the Old Testament saints but each feature of faith is intended to mark those who are the subjects of divine calling. We get the divine calling in Abraham; even for him it was a heavenly calling, not in terms but in the spirit of the thing. Abraham understood the spirit of God's approach to him; he looked for a city. The patriarchs sought a country, they sought heaven. It must have been wonderful to the Hebrews to see that these people sought a heavenly country.
Resurrection is introduced in Isaac; God comes out in resurrection power. Death is set aside; nothing can hinder God carrying out resurrection.
Then we get sovereignty in Isaac blessing Jacob and Esau, and in the way that Jacob blessed the two sons of Joseph. We must learn these great principles -- the heavenly calling, the power of resurrection and the sovereignty of God, whether in the soul individually or amongst God's people. Jacob crossed his hands and Ephraim was put before Manasseh; it was done by faith. That is important as giving the ground for worshipping. Jacob is the only man in Hebrews 11 who is spoken of as a worshipper.
C.A.C. We must learn to see that everything of God is in sovereignty, whether it is as to our being brought to know Him at all, or any place we have in God's Israel -- all is determined by sovereignty. Nothing produces the spirit of subjection or subduedness as this does; we cannot be
worshippers without those features. None of us worship until we come to the recognition of divine sovereignty. Jacob had his staff; he leans on divine faithfulness. That is what his staff represents. God put his staff in his hand: we never understand God's faithfulness until we submit to His sovereignty.
Ques. Is it specially marked in the history of Jacob?
C.A.C. Yes, it is the result of a life of discipline. Jacob is a remarkable witness for the need of discipline. Jacob was brought in the end to recognise this principle of sovereignty; it was that to which he owed his own blessing. If we accepted that, we should be happy in the place assigned to us in the assembly. If any one is not happy amongst his brethren it indicates he has not accepted the principle of sovereignty. It is right to desire a good place in the inheritance; it is right to covet the best gifts, but at the same time we must accept the sovereignty of God. If we had more love we should more desire to be beneficial to the saints. We should all pray for more spiritual competency -- brothers and sisters -- that we might benefit the brethren. As we see in Psalm 16, the Lord was perfectly content with what was assigned to Him. In the cities where His most mighty works were done they had not responded, and He says, "Yea, Father, for thus has it been well-pleasing in thy sight". "I praise thee, Father, Lord of the heaven and of the earth", that is the spirit of worship. It is a beautiful word; if we do not understand it we shall not understand what the Lord means when He says, "Come to me ... and I will give you rest". We are to come to Him in the restfulness of divine sovereignty, that is the place of absolute satisfaction. It does not mean only coming to Him as Saviour.
Ques. Was not Jacob's history like our history in the crookedness of his pathway and yet in the faithfulness of God?
C.A.C. Yes. An old brother in the truth used to say, 'Did you ever see Jacob in your looking-glass?'!
Ques. In order to bless must we be in the knowledge of the import of resurrection?
C.A.C. Yes. We shall never get outside the shadow of death in our spirits until we come to resurrection. These patriarchs shewed that in the presence of the article of death they were outside it in their spirits and able to bless. In one sense the day of a man's death is the best day of his life. It says so in Scripture. The day of your death is the moment you are actually free from that which has been a harrowing thing to you all your life. We each have that to contend with which is a great difficulty. A man's death means that he is severed from the flesh. If we touch resurrection in mind and faith we come to where there is nothing but the purpose of God and we can worship.
Ques. Does that enhance the thought of sovereignty?
C.A.C. Yes. It is very important to see that God has set members in the body of Christ as it has pleased Him. We should all understand where God has put us in the body; God would tell us if we asked Him. Saints who have been breaking bread for years sometimes do not know their place in the body! Have I asked the Lord where my place in the body is? Where ought I to function? In Romans we have to act according to our assigned place. If a man prophesies it is to be according to faith, not according to his knowledge of Scripture. If we are not in subjection to the sovereign ordering of God, there will be some measure of activity of the human mind or will and there is sure to be discord; we shall not blend. If we are in subjection to God we shall blend with all our brethren perfectly and every member will function. Manasseh was Joseph's firstborn, yet he had to be content that Ephraim should be before him. God passes by natural qualities; an able man has often no place in the assembly and the most capable man in
the meeting is often the most obscure in the world. It is sovereignty and we must all accept it; until we do we shall never be happy. If I do not want to be anything except what God would have me to be, I shall be a very happy man and serviceable to the brethren. Ephraim means 'double fruitfulness'.
You come to a climax in Joseph. He called to mind the going forth of the sons of Israel; he has before him the purpose of God. He has before him the thought of the sons going from bondage and distance into the blessedness of divine purpose. He cherishes the thought of the purpose of God for His people. There is a hint in it of resurrection: he gave commandment concerning his bones. If one thinks of the sovereignty of God it brings one over to the divine side at once. Think what God has in His mind and heart for His people! That is Joseph; he had in mind what God was going to do. He comes out as giving the complete idea realised by a man far away from the land of Canaan, but he has the complete thought of God in his mind. God was going to bring the children of Israel out of bondage and distance and bring them to the favoured spot which was in His purpose for them. The fact that Joseph gave commandment concerning his bones shews that he had the thought of resurrection in his mind. This would tend to free us from living in what is providential. Most of us live in the sphere of divine providence. We are fairly comfortable, have plenty to eat and drink and prove God's goodness every day, and there is a danger of living just in the sphere of providence. In a brief time we shall have to leave that sphere: what is going to abide is the sphere of divine purpose. If we live by the word of God, that is outside providence; the word of God connects us with the unseen, and faith does too.
It is important to see what follows in regard to Moses, where the process of going forth morally is presented. All
the elect are going into divine purpose when they die but God would have us go there before we die, in divine purpose and faith.
Ques. How can we get out of living in the providential sphere?
C.A.C. The way out of the providential sphere is the death of Christ. He came into death to make a way out. We go out to the sphere of purpose.
Ques. Why are so many of us found merely in the providential sphere?
C.A.C. Because we have not seen anything better. If we saw the purpose of God in its glory we should be delivered from the providential sphere. "It became him ... by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory". Have we seen that? Suppose we had the nicest house and garden, the best of health and plenty of means, what is that compared with many sons being brought to glory? We are going to leave the providential sphere, perhaps in five minutes, and what is going to abide? The sphere of purpose. By faith the children of Israel passed through the Red Sea; they went out with a high hand in the sight of the Egyptians -- it is fine!
Rem. We do not begin to live until we get on to the purpose side.
C.A.C. That is right. Life is connected with purpose; life was connected with the brazen serpent which came at the end of the wilderness. Life is for the land, not for the wilderness. Discipline comes in so that you should not get unmixed good in the providential sphere; otherwise you might be content to settle down. God sees that we have food and raiment and a thousand comforts by the way, but along with that we get His discipline, so that we may remember that this is not our rest. Jacob said that he would give a tenth of what he possessed to God, but all he had was a walking-stick!
In Moses we see the practical way the thing works. In Joseph we have a climax, a man with the purpose of God in his mind and connecting it with resurrection. In Moses we see it worked out. It begins with a beautiful child, too beautiful for Egypt. "They saw the child beautiful" seems to suggest the idea that God secures by His own sovereignty something for Himself. You see the true levitical thought in Moses; a man from the house of Levi took a daughter of Levi. Moses is the personification of the levitical idea, something for God. Levi represents what is for God, and what is for God is beautiful, far too good for this world. God took the Levites in the place of the firstborn; the levitical tribe represented what was for God. Here was a babe of a few days old and they see it beautiful! Stephen says the child was exceedingly lovely. Moses' parents were a fine couple. We cannot always tell from parents what the children are going to be, but you can tell from the children what sort of parents they have! There is a treasure on which God's heart is set but He hides it. It is not something to glorify this world; it is too beautiful for the world -- it is for God. It should be the holy ambition of christian parents that their children should be for God, not simply that they should be converted and go to heaven, but that they should be for God. How delighted they would be when they saw some features of divine beauty appearing! What is spiritual must go forth; it is too good for this world.
Ques. Why did they hide Moses three months?
C.A.C. It was a certain period of faith. The Spirit of God in this chapter is dwelling on the triumphs of faith. We might say that Isaac was deceived into blessing Jacob, but the Spirit of God says by faith he blessed Jacob. "By faith Moses, when he had become great, refused to be called son of Pharaoh's daughter". He had a great opportunity, but he chose by faith to suffer affliction with
the people of God. Another exercise of faith was in their putting the child in the ark, into the water. They thought what was beautiful under the eye of God must be brought out from the place of death. Both the ark and the place where it was put represent the death of Christ. However beautiful the child was, he must be drawn out of the place of death. It is lovely to see that. Atonement is the same word as is used for pitch in Genesis 6:14; it is the thought of covering. If there is to be any product for God it must be under cover of the death of Christ. God gave Moses a great providential place in order to give opportunity to his faith to abandon it. Moses gave up the greatest providence that could be proved by anybody; he gave up his lot as the son of Pharaoh's daughter to take up his lot amongst a despised people. Faith is sometimes put to the test that we may see whether we are prepared to abandon what is providentially favourable.
C.A.C. The detail connected with Moses seems to indicate the steps by which faith finds its way out of the world. It is really by a process of reduction; that is to say, we cannot in any moral sense get out of the world merely by changing out habits and ways.
Ques. What is involved in the passover and the sprinkling of blood?
C.A.C. In the passover we seem to come to the root of things; it is like the last step. The first step is refusing greatness in the world and suffering affliction; the second step is valuing the reproach of Christ, not only bearing it; the third step is leaving Egypt. "He persevered, as seeing
him who is invisible": that is a more searching exercise than refusing greatness and valuing reproach. The deepest exercise of all is in the passover and the sprinkling of the blood. These seem to be the steps of Moses' faith, and steps necessary if we are to be delivered from the world. It is not just a question of changing your manner of life but of inward exercise. Refusing greatness led to outward exercise but in itself it is inward. What is said in this chapter as to Moses leaving Egypt gives us what we have not in the Old Testament. It is more searching for Moses than the first two steps. He had to learn that his own power was of no use at all in delivering the people. He had thought that God by his hand would deliver the people (Acts 7:25) He had to learn that his power was no use at all; that is a great reduction. We have to learn the same thing too, that though we may desire to help the people of God we can do nothing; that is the greatest reduction of all. In the passover we see that the whole life of flesh is under judgment; that is the root of the whole matter.
Ques. Does the word "persevered" cover Moses' forty years in the wilderness?
C.A.C. Yes, it throws a flood of light on those years. Moses learnt that the power of his hands could do nothing and that only the One who is invisible could deliver. He persevered in faith for forty years and the burning bush was the answer. It is a good thing to persevere for forty years, and perhaps find when you are eighty you are no good and that nothing is done!
We get in these instances of faith the inward exercises. That is what led me to say that we do not get out of the world by changing our habits, but as the result of inward exercise. We find in the Old Testament history that Moses was afraid and fled for his life and also that Isaac was deceived in blessing Jacob. The Old Testament gives us the outward history but in the New Testament the inward
faith is magnified. Sometimes there is a strange mixture with us, but God knows how to sift out faith from unbelief. God glorified their faith because their faith glorified Him. Faith is the result of the light of God coming sovereignly into the soul. This chapter should exercise us as to what faith we have. We all have a general knowledge of truth which we would not give up, but this chapter tests us as to what faith we have.
Rem. The apostles said, "Give more faith to us", Luke 17:5.
C.A.C. When the apostles said that the Lord seemed to doubt that they had any at all, for only one grain of mustard seed is needed! It was as much as to say that they had none. To another He said, "O woman, thy faith is great". The Lord loves to honour faith. It is the only thing in our souls that has value with God because it honours Him, it makes much of God.
The passover is the absolute setting aside of all that the flesh is; the judgment of God sets it aside. 1 Corinthians goes much with what we are reading. We get the passover in chapter 5, and the crossing of the Red Sea in chapter 10. Being baptised in the cloud and in the sea means the public profession we take up in this world.
Rem. The man under judgment is gone in judgment.
C.A.C. Yes, and also the Man who bore the judgment is out of it and is the righteousness of all who believe on Him.
C.A.C. The thought of sprinkling in Scripture is a greater thought than washing; it is greater to be under the sprinkling of the blood than to be washed by it. The washing calls attention to the effect produced on me -- "Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow" (Psalm 51:7). "They ... have washed their robes, and have made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:14). "The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin" (1 John 1:7).
It is the effect produced upon us, but in the sprinkling the soul comes under all the value of what is sprinkled, whether blood, water, or oil. It gives a more extended thought, the sense of coming under all the value of what is sprinkled. The blood of sprinkling speaks of wonderful things.
In the celebration of the passover the thought is the feeding on the Lamb roast with fire; Christ having borne the judgment becomes the food of the soul; it gives constitution. The more we think of Christ bearing the judgment the more we shall be separated inwardly from the life of Egypt -- the very life of flesh. So we are not only different in habits and ways but inwardly separated in soul. The sprinkling of the blood is for God; it secured everything on the divine side. "When I see the blood, I will pass over you". The blood of the Lamb secured everything for God; you cannot add anything to it on the divine side. You are made nigh. My thought is that the sprinkling of the blood brings all that value of the death of Christ before God, and it is the basis on which He can do all. He can bring them out and bring them in, give them His presence and shine upon them. It is the value of the blood that secures everything.
The two greatest types of the death of Christ are the passover and the sin offering on the day of atonement, because both are on God's side. On the people's side there are other types: first, the smiting of the rock, then the brazen serpent meeting all on the people's side, but nothing can be added to the blood of the Lamb and the blood on the mercy-seat.
Rem. The wilderness is a place of testing.
C.A.C. Faith is the subject here; the Spirit of God is not thinking of the testing of the people here; He is dwelling on what is substance in souls, what is divinely wrought in souls. It is the working out of, "the just shall live by faith".
Can we live by faith like Abel, Noah, Enoch and so on? How much can we live by faith? What are we up to?
Ques. What is the difference between the passover here and over Jordan?
C.A.C. The difference lies in the standpoint from which you regard it. The position of the people changed, but the passover did not change. The position, we are in makes all the difference.
We can trace a difference in the passover in the wilderness. God says, 'It is My feast'; that was a great advance on Egypt. And in the land He says, 'You must eat it in the place where I set My Name'. I am thankful if the Lord's supper becomes more to us than it was.
Ques. Might we get back to having it more than once a week?
C.A.C. The Lord would have us to observe weeks, not days, months, or years. The week is built into the divine system; assembly history is by the week. We begin afresh once a week; it is a new start. When we wake up on Lord's Day morning, we ought to think, 'Now this is a new beginning, the first day of the week, and we are to have what we never had before'.
Ques. Does the Supper sustain us here as eating it?
C.A.C. I believe that. We eat our food to sustain life and in eating the Supper we are spiritually nourished and built up in a spiritual constitution. I covet this much; it is the only thing that will keep us out of formality. Formality is doing the same thing; my thought is beginning afresh and we should begin each week with a fresh exercise of having done with ourselves. There should be a self-review, a thorough overhauling before partaking of the Supper. No one is supposed to come to the Supper in any other way.
In the passover you come down to the root of the thing. There are four steps in reduction: (1) Refusing greatness; (2) Valuing reproach; (3) Giving up all confidence in
anything of your own; (4) The very life of the flesh must go in judgment. There is no way of getting out of this world but by a process of self-reduction. All this leads on to passing through the Red Sea.
Ques. Why does it now say "They", it was in the singular before?
C.A.C. It is the collective idea, the public position is collective. The inward exercises of faith are individual. You move in the steps of your own faith, and faith in one would not conflict with faith in another, but when you come to the public position it is they pass through the Red Sea.
Ques. When do exercises of faith come in after the Red Sea?
C.A.C. No doubt there was faith in Moses in the wilderness, but the Spirit of God drops that out. Faith is concerned in getting out of this world and into the divine inheritance. The ways of God in the wilderness are humbling and instructive, but God's thought is bringing them out and bringing them in.
The walls of Jericho falling shew the collapse of every spiritual power of wickedness which would hinder the enjoyment of the inheritance. It was spiritual power against Jericho, no blow was struck. The public position can be imitated, as we see by the Egyptians following. Israel went out to serve God, for God had said, "Let my son go". There is nothing connected with the service of God that the flesh cannot take up, but it will be disastrous. We find that a mixed multitude followed Israel; they had not faith, but the Israel of God had faith. A lot of people went through the Red Sea who had not faith. It says in 1 Corinthians 10 they were all baptised in the cloud and in the sea -- that was the public position -- but God was not pleased with those who had no faith. A man in the flesh can ask for fellowship and we may receive him but the end
is disaster; flesh can follow the public position and take it up. Baptism is what answers to the Red Sea. Christendom has taken up baptism; they are baptised and confirmed and take the sacrament; they take up the outward position, but we have to see to it that we take it up in faith.
Ques. What are the steps into the inheritance?
C.A.C. Walking around Jericho seven days in the presence of what is wholly spiritual. The priests and the trumpets and the armed men and the ark of Jehovah all convey a spiritual idea and not a fleshly movement. They moved round every day for six days and seven times on the last day. Did anyone ever hear of such a mode of reducing a fortress? Spiritual power alone can break down spiritual opposition. That is what hinders us; the atmosphere of the world is full of spiritual opposition.
Luke 22 indicates that there are certain moral links between the Lord's supper and the passover. It is a mistake to put them in contrast. The Lord linked on His Supper with the passover so there is a moral suitability in connecting them. The passover is important specially as taking it up on the divine side. In the passover there is the thought of a generation secured for God and that was the generation that walked round Jericho.
We see in Rahab how entirely it is all of grace. God takes up a poor gentile of disreputable character and gives her a place in the inheritance. She is put into the genealogy of Christ.
C.A.C. The saints are regarded as being surrounded by all these witnesses of chapter 11. It is a good circle in which to be found.
Ques. In what way do they surround us?
C.A.C. In the way it is put here: "Having so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us" (verse 1). We are surrounded by these people; their witness is before us in the Scriptures. The Lord has been pleased to bring persons before us, and it is very encouraging. Hebrews is largely a book of persons and not of abstract truths. It is the kind of circle that we should be careful not to get out of -- a circle in which God has set us, where we are surrounded by persons of faith of all ages.
All this circle in which we are set is the circle of encouragement. These persons were men and women like ourselves. Scripture occupies us with persons; we are more apt to get occupied with truth. These persons were occupied with unseen things; God was their Object. Not one of these men and women is the author or completer of faith, but they encircle us with great encouragement. The Hebrew saints were a suffering people; their place as confessors of Jesus was one of suffering. The writer of the epistle puts them into this circle to encourage them. He says to these Hebrew saints, 'These people have been in the path of faith and have suffered as you have and died'. How encouraging to be surrounded by a circle like that! It is from persons that we get most of our encouragement now. If we want to be an encouragement to the saints, we
must remember it is not by what we hold but what we are! There was such a character about these men and women that the world was not worthy of them.
Rem. It says that God foresaw some better thing for us and He was not ashamed to be called their God.
C.A.C. Yes; the whole character of faith had not come to light then, there was some better thing reserved for us. What they had was not equal to what we have. They embraced the promises, they beheld them afar off, but we are brought to them; we do not see them afar off. "Ye have come to mount Zion" and so on. The circle into which we are put is very wonderful. We are surrounded by men and women of faith of all ages; it is a great thing to be in that circle. People who are there are outside the world.
Ques. Such a "cloud" would obscure the world; is not the expression "cloud" rather remarkable?
C.A.C. Yes, it is a striking thought.
Ques. Would verse 5 indicate that they had forgotten what you are speaking of?
C.A.C. Yes, there was a tendency with them to slip back, as there is with us all. We have a tendency to slip away from the truth we have received. This epistle is the antidote to the tendency in our hearts to slip away and to forget.
Ques. Is not the force of the exhortation that it is the end of the path that is the test, not the beginning?
C.A.C. Yes. We are at the end of the faith period, in the last lap of the race. It is very important not to drop out now. Many drop out within sight of the goal; that is a sad thing. We are nearer the end of the race than when this epistle was written.
Ques. Is every believer in the race?
C.A.C. It is set before them; I do not know that you could say that every believer is in it.
Ques. Do we not get some idea of the goal at the beginning
of our history, that there is something beyond this world?
C.A.C. God gives an impression at the beginning of what His end is. We get the impression that we are saved for another world. This epistle is to correct the tendency to slip away, and to restore us if we have become dull of hearing.
Ques. Is the "cloud" the thought of heavenly witnesses?
C.A.C. Yes. All these worthies had died without a place here; they were a heavenly company. The Spirit of God accredits them with seeking the heavenly. It says in verse 1, "Let us ... run with endurance the race". There is more the thought of the future than the past.
Rem. There is an immense thought in running a race.
C.A.C. Yes, and also in winning a prize. "Thus run in order that ye may obtain" is the same thought. Winning the prize is not something on earth but in heaven.
C.A.C. Yes; there is something for us all to lay aside, and "sin which so easily entangles us". Sin would be anything connected with the will of man; it entangles us and keeps us from having the heavenly in view. Being still in flesh and blood there is a great danger of sin entangling us, and a weight is anything that hinders movement in the race.
Ques. Are there not many things that are weights without being sin? It says, "and sin".
C.A.C. Yes; personal habits and associations may not be sin, but they may be weights to be laid aside in order to run freely in the race. We must find out what a weight is. When people begin to move spiritually they find many things that are a hindrance and they let them go. There are many things that hinder the pursuit of what is heavenly that are not exactly sin; they are connected with earth. There is much in the character of religion that is a weight;
it hinders what is heavenly. I think in the mind of the Spirit religious things connected with earth would be a serious weight.
Ques. Is it not important to get into the company of those marked by faith?
C.A.C. Yes. Much depends on the company we keep. We should look out for people more spiritual than ourselves; we should look out for the best sort of company.
Ques. Does this correspond with the sin of inadvertence in Leviticus 4?
C.A.C. Yes, it is not sinning wilfully here, but sin that hinders. It is a principle of lawlessness in whatever specious form it may clothe itself. We must not think we are out of reach of it; it easily besets us. If we ask ourselves, 'Does this help the heavenly?' it is a good test. People say, 'I see no harm in this or that'. But does it help the heavenly? If it hinders the heavenly there is a lot of harm in it. If there is a book you would like to read, ask yourself, 'Does it help the heavenly?' Then you would not waste a few hours reading it.
Ques. What is the joy spoken of in verse 2?
C.A.C. It was the blessedness of the prospect of being with God in heaven in the blessedness of His purpose for man.
Ques. Is it like Psalm 16?
C.A.C. Yes. I thought the Lord Jesus had in view, as no other man ever had, the thought of God for men. While He was here on earth it was future, something of which He had no experience. At that point the Lord put Himself alongside of those in the path of faith. There was a joy set before Him of which He had no previous experience. The Lord had fully in view the purpose of God for man. He said to His disciples, "Rejoice that your names are written in the heavens". He said to the thief, "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise". It was a new place for the Lord inCHAPTER 2
CHAPTER 6 (FIRST READING)
CHAPTER 6 (SECOND READING)
CHAPTER 9 (FIRST READING)
CHAPTER 9 (SECOND READING)
CHAPTER 9 (THIRD READING)
CHAPTER 9 (FOURTH READING)
CHAPTER 9 (FIFTH READING)
As companions of Christ: what a wonderful thing!,
Heirs of salvation,
Many sons brought to glory,
Brethren of Christ,
Sanctified,
All of one with Christ,
Partakers of the heavenly calling. 'He's gone within the veil,
For us that place has won;
In Him we stand, a heav'nly band,
Where He Himself is gone'. (Hymn 12)'And, spotless in that heav'nly light,
Of all Thy suff'rings talk'. (Hymn 270)CHAPTER 10 (FIRST READING)
'He's gone within the veil,
For us that place has won;
In Him we stand, a heav'nly band,
Where He Himself is gone'. (Hymn 12)CHAPTER 10 (SECOND READING)
CHAPTER 10 (THIRD READING)
CHAPTER 10 (FOURTH READING)
CHAPTER 11 (FIRST READING)
CHAPTER 11 (SECOND READING)
CHAPTER 11 (THIRD READING)
CHAPTER 11 (FOURTH READING)
CHAPTER 11 (FIFTH READING)
CHAPTER 11 (SIXTH READING)
CHAPTER 12 (FIRST READING)