Ephesians 2:22; Ephesians 4:4 - 6; 1 Corinthians 1:9; 1 Corinthians 10:16 - 18; 2 Corinthians 13:14

G.R.C. I thought we might consider -- for want of a better word, and because it is a word that is often used -- the 'position' and the question of Christian fellowship, which involves a path. There is a position and a path, and the chapters in Ephesians bring out what I have in mind as to the 'position'.

According to Ephesians 4 the position is a threefold one and it is contingent upon the gift of the Holy Spirit; contingent, of course, upon redemption and the forgiveness of sins, but contingent upon the gift of the Holy Spirit. Thus the threefold position is first that everyone who has the Spirit is made by God a member of the body -- there is one body; and secondly everyone who has the Spirit is placed by God under the authority of the Lord -- there is one Lord; and translated into the kingdom of the Son of His love, and thirdly they are in the house of God, for it says there is one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in us all which involves the house of God. He is in us all. It takes us back to the first verse we read that "in Jesus Christ, the corner stone, we are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit". He is in us all. So you have there a threefold position contingent upon the gift of the Holy Spirit, not in itself resting on our responsibility, but upon what God has been pleased to do in His sovereignty and in His grace. He has made us members of the one body -- the greatest membership we

could possibly have; He has translated us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, so that we are all under the one Lord and we all call upon Him; and we belong to His house, we are builded together, a habitation of God in the Spirit.

1 Timothy develops really that verse "One God and Father of all, who is over all", because 1 Timothy deals with the house of God. It maintains the truth that God is one and that He is God our Saviour and God our Father -- verses 1 and 2; and in the reference to Him as Creator and Preserver, it shows He is through all; and, in reference to Him as the blessed and only Ruler, it shows that He is over all. But He is in us all for we belong to His house, the house of the blessed and only Ruler, the house of the King of the Ages, the greatest royal household in the universe.

Now this threefold position in which we are placed sovereignly by God in grace, is the position in which every one who has the Spirit is placed. Everyone thus who receives the forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit is in that position. There is no special position for any Christian or sets of Christians. There could not be a more special position than this threefold one.

E.R.S. Is that the impregnable position, the citadel the Lord Jesus spoke of, "On this rock I will build my assembly, and hades' gates shall not prevail against it", Matthew 16:18?

G.R.C. Quite so. "My assembly" not only involves what the assembly is to Him as His body, but what the assembly is as the house of God, the assembly of the living God. Both ideas are in that passage, because Peter confesses Him as "the Christ" -- in that respect He stands related to His body -- and

as the "Son of the living God" in which He stands, related to the assembly as "God's house the assembly of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth", 1 Timothy 3:16. So it is a grand thing to lay hold of the threefold position. I do not like the word 'position' much. It is not in scripture, but I am using it to describe something that God has established, whether we understand it or not, and we would all like to understand it better -- the grandeur of this threefold position, that we are members of Christ's body, we are in the kingdom of the Son of God's love, and we belong to God's house.

H.S. What you are saying gives us a broader view of the position. It is a word that has been sadly misused has it not? And you are helping us, I think, to see the breadth of the view from the divine side.

G.R.C. That is it.

H.S. I wondered too, if I may just ask further, regarding your reference to 1 Timothy 3 which I think you have in mind as to God's house. It is immediately followed by the other great verse is it not -- "the mystery of piety is great" -- could you say something about the juxtaposition of those two verses?

G.R.C. One thing it brings out, I think, is that the manifestation of God in this world was in a Man in Whom piety was perfectly seen. He is a Divine Person, of course, but had come into our circumstances. It was not only that God was here, but He was manifested. "God has been manifested in flesh". It was not simply that He was here without anybody being able to observe anything, but it says, "God has been manifested in flesh", and the way He was manifested was because the One who came -- Who Himself is God, it is true -- trod a path of perfect piety. Down

here in that path of piety He expressed God at every point so that God was manifested -- not only present but manifested. And that bears on us, because if there is to be a manifestation of God through us, it can only be as we are maintained in the path of piety according to the way Jesus Himself has marked it out; not according to what man may say about it, but according to the way Jesus Himself has marked out the path. As Peter says, He has left us a model, that we should follow in His steps -- 1 Peter 2:21. Is that right?

H.S. I am sure it is, thank you. What you are saying is helping us, I am sure, because the apostle says that we are to know how to behave ourselves in that house; and I wondered if the last verse which you are speaking of now is to help in relation to that!

G.R.C. It is only in a path of piety that we can maintain the behaviour suited to God's house. In God's house every institution that God has placed, whether natural or spiritual, is maintained in integrity. That is essential if the house is to be "the pillar and base of the truth". Every divine institution is to be maintained in integrity, whether it is marriage or other things or whether it is the spiritual institutions that we have spoken of -- the one body and so on. All the institutions, normally in the thought of God, are to be maintained in integrity in those who form His house; and then, with that background, they are to express God in all they do. This is the highest responsibility of man. God is to be expressed in His house -- that is in those who form His house -- and that requires a path of piety. This is a great mystery because it cannot be explained away. The natural cannot understand the motives that

govern such a path -- it is the mystery of piety.

E.R.S. Had you in mind then, that though 1 Timothy 3:16 was primarily and outstandingly the pathway of the blessed Lord Jesus Himself, each one of those things in detail is to be seen, in some measure, in all who follow Him?

G.R.C. Yes -- in the principle of it. Of course we are not preached among the nations as He is, but we are to be in accord with the preaching; and we should know something about being justified in the Spirit; that is, to have the consciousness of the Spirit's support and approval, whatever outward circumstances may appear to be. Outwardly, circumstances may seem to have gone all wrong. People may say, 'there is no evidence that you are with God or that God is with you because -- look at the outward circumstances -- everything has gone wrong outwardly'. But then that is how it was with the Lord Himself, and how it was with Paul too. Outwardly, everything looked black, and as though all that was laboured for had come to nothing. But what sustains anyone on the path of faith is the sense that they are not justified by circumstances but by the Spirit. You do not need circumstances to justify you if you have the consciousness that you are justified in the Spirit; and the Spirit gives the sense of His justification and His support to a man who is in the path of true piety following the Lord, is that right?

C.R.H. One feature of the mystery of piety in that passage is "believed on in the world". Is that why the Lord could utter the remarkable word, "Ye believe on God, believe also on me"?

G.R.C. Well, I think so. And it is the manifestation of God, in the path of piety of the saints, that

makes way for Jesus to be believed on in the world. It is the life of Jesus manifested in us that gives the background for the preaching. So it says, "God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in the Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among the nations, has been believed on in the world, has been received up in glory". The preaching would have no background without this manifestation of God in a walk of piety. It gives a background to the preaching; so it says, believed on in the world, preached among the nations and seen of angels, which of course brings in the idea of the manna, angels' food. You are supported in the path of piety by the manna. Of course this has been attacked, as you know, in the current teaching. This verse has been attacked by Satan, who would undermine the mystery of piety in our minds by rejecting the idea that Jesus is a Model, and therefore there would be a failure of the manifestation of God in the saints at the present time. We should fail to represent Him in His character. "The kindness and love to man of our Saviour God appeared", Titus 3:4; and the epistle to Timothy brings both sides before us. Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners and we are to be in accord with that -- the gospel of the glory of the blessed God. We are to be living expressions of God, in His kindness and love to men. If He came into the world to save sinners, then we are in the world to save sinners as far as lies in us. But then the other side is carefully guarded as to what is due to God in His house, "lay hands quickly on no man", 1 Timothy 5:22. So that when it comes to fellowship you "lay hands quickly on no man", without any respect of persons. But in ex-

pressing God's kindness to men, we are to be like the Lord, and the notion that has been stated that we cannot eat with men -- because the Lord did not eat with any but His own after He rose from the dead -- is folly. You see, His path of testimony was over. He says, "the world sees me no longer", John 14:19 -- His path of testimony was finished. When we have resurrection bodies we shall not be in the testimony, as we are now, to express God. His path of testimony was over -- theirs was just beginning and He says, "As the Father sent me forth, I also send you", John 20:21.

M.R.H. Would the matter of piety be involved in the way of holiness of which you spoke in your prayer?

G.R.C. Yes. For Jesus trod the way of holiness -- we could not say anything else than that. If He went into Levi's house He was still in the way of holiness, living wholly to God, separated in heart entirely to God and yet most accessible to men. If He went into the Pharisee's house -- as He did into three separate Pharisees' houses in Luke -- to eat -- it says each time He went there to eat -- it was still the way of holiness for the Lord.

H.S. He was still separated from sinners.

G.R.C. He was. He was separated from sinners when He was sitting down amongst them. Separation is not segregation. Separation begins as an inward matter. We are separated to God, and the Lord was separated from sinners when He was sitting down at table with them in Levi's house.

Now in connection with the fellowship, I regard it as having two aspects -- one is walk and the other is sharing in common. The walk must come first.

You cannot share in common if you do not walk together. Now walking is fellowship right through scripture. It begins in the garden, "Jehovah Elohim walking in the garden in the cool of the day", Genesis 3:8, with a view to communion, or fellowship -- that is the same word -- with His creature, and that brings in the first principle of fellowship. The first principle of fellowship is communion or fellowship with God. When it comes to fellowship with men, that is a secondary idea. Fellowship among men which does not begin with fellowship with God is a human fellowship -- there are plenty of them in the world. The divine fellowship begins with fellowship with God, and that is what was broken by the incoming of sin. Jehovah Elohim walked in the garden in the cool of the day. He desired to walk with His creature and that His creature should walk with Him, for His own satisfaction.

E.R.S. So what was lost in the garden of Eden -- God, as it were, coming down and seeking fellowship with men but not finding it -- was found in the seventh from Adam, Enoch. It says that he walked with God and it is specially mentioned that he kept up his ordinary family life at the same time. Does that confirm your thought as to the first view of fellowship -- to walk with God but not out of the world?

G.R.C. Very good. It was not segregation. Enoch walked with God but there is no evidence that he made himself a monk, or separated from his children who were not perhaps walking on the level he was. He walked with God and begat sons and daughters, so God had what He desired with one man.

C.R.H. Does John's first epistle, chapter 1: 3, confirm

what you say as to that first element of fellowship being with God? "Our fellowship is indeed with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ".

G.R.C. Yes, I think that passage is most important. It brings in the thought of walk. We must hold to the idea that the first element of fellowship is connected with walk. It is not a position, it is a walk. The position we have spoken of -- that is the fixed position. Fellowship is a walk in keeping with the position, a walk consistent with the position.

E.R.S. Could you help us please on the difference between walking and practising? Is it something deeper, that covers, as it were, inward as well as outward behaviour? We speak of a person's Christian walk, meaning his Christian behaviour, but do you think the reference to Enoch shows it is something deeper than just behaviour?

G.R.C. It is behaviour that springs out of communion with God, is it not?

E.R.S. Well, I would like help on that. We sometimes use "walk" when we speak of a person walking godlily, meaning that he behaves in a godly way, but I wondered whether there is any suggestion of something deeper than that.

G.R.C. I think so. Walking with God is something very vital and inward, as well as what is outward. It expresses itself in the outward behaviour.

C.R.H. John the Baptist looked on Jesus as He walked. Would that help?

G.R.C. Yes, that does help. Because it is something you can see -- there is the outward effect of what is inward -- because the Lord Jesus walked with His Father -- they two went together it says in Genesis 22 twice over. The Father and the Son were moving

together, but it manifested itself in outward conduct.

C.R.H. So the result of that walk was that two of John's disciples followed Jesus, and then had the wonderful privilege of abiding with Him that day.

G.R.C. So that unless we are following Jesus we cannot properly walk together. He has marked out the path that we tread. We are to walk as He walked.

H.E.C. We walk in the light as He is in the light, and have fellowship with one another.

G.R.C. That is it. That chapter is very important, because it so confirms this idea of walk; and what our brother has said is right -- first that the apostles had fellowship with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. He does not begin by saying, 'We twelve apostles had fellowship with one another'. He says, "That which we have seen and heard we report to you, that ye also may have fellowship with us; and our fellowship is indeed with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ". This is in contrast with all human fellowships, for there is no human fellowship that has fellowship with the Father and the Son. Then he goes on to say, "These things write we to you that your joy may be full". Now that brings in the result of fellowship -- that joy is full. That is to say that if we walk consistently with the position we shall get the joy of the position. If we fail to walk consistently with this threefold position, we shall not lose the position, because that is given by God sovereignly. Even the wicked man at Corinth who had to be put away did not lose his membership of the body. What he lost was the joy of it and the privileges of it. So that if we walk in a path that is consistent with the position our joy will always be full.

B.D. So Paul puts it in Romans "the gifts and the calling of God are not subject to repentance", Romans 11:29 -- they were not recalled.

G.R.C. No. The position stands. You could link it with what it says in 2 Timothy 2, that "the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, The Lord knows those that are his". Here is the foundation, "The Lord knows those that are his". And everyone who is His is a member of the body and belongs to the kingdom and the house, and nothing can alter that. And so we look out on all Christians with loving eyes, with that light in our souls.

But now the next thing is, are we prepared to be faithful to the position? Are we prepared to tread a path consistent with the position? Upon that our joy depends. Otherwise while we have the position from God's side we do not enjoy it.

C.R.H. Does fellowship involve questions of light and darkness, because following the statement that our fellowship is with the Father it says, "God is light and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not practise the truth", 1 John 1:5, 6.

G.R.C. Well now, that verse you quote is a very important one. Before it speaks in 1 John 1 of having fellowship with one another, the first thing is, "If we say we have fellowship with Him". It stresses the point that the primary thing in fellowship -- the first matter -- is fellowship with God. That if we say we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness we lie and do not the truth. So that the first thing is to be right with God, as before God, maintaining a walk consistent with the position, so that we are

walking with God regarding the position in which He has put us.

E.R.S. Is that why we feel increasingly that fellowship stands very closely connected with the Lord's Supper? It is fellowship with Him. Is that the link in the Corinthian scripture, the great basic thought, first the fellowship of His death, before the question of our links with one another is raised?

G.R.C. I am sure that is right. What has impressed me in Romans in that connection is that in chapter 7 the soul says, "I delight in the law of God after the inward man". And he finishes by saying "I myself" -- never mind what others do -- "I myself, with the mind serve God's law", before he begins to think of fellowship. I mean that his heart and mind are set with delight and with resolution upon the law of God. That is going to govern him, before he begins to think of whom he is going to walk with. That is the way to begin. It is God's law that you love and resolve to serve with your mind, and you are not going to give that up in order to get fellowship, because it involves fellowship with God to move on that line; and you cannot give up your fellowship with God. Human fellowship is an empty thing unless you have fellowship with God.

K.P. So verse 9 of 1 Corinthians 1 must come before verse 10. The individual matter first before "I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus, that ye all say the same thing". This verse 9 must come first otherwise we get nowhere.

G.R.C. Yes. That is, we must be committed to these things first. That is why I think Romans 7 is so important. It is the individual. He comes to it

that he delights in the law of God and that he is resolved with his mind to serve God's law. Well now, that is a good basis to begin with because that puts him right with God and now he can look round to see whom he can walk with amongst men. That is the order of the first chapter of John's epistle -- beginning with God. "If we say we have fellowship with God and walk in darkness we lie and do not the truth", but "if we walk in the light as he is in the light" -- which means we are right with God -- then "we have fellowship with one another".

H.S. That is the order, is it not, Romans 8 following Romans 7? I am thinking of what we well know -- the continuation -- going on to chapter 8, it says, "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death", verse 2, and before that it speaks of "no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus" -- there are others that are on that line.

G.R.C. That is it. There are others.

H.S. Would you say that as we may experience, in any measure, walking with God, and having fellowship with God -- the normal outcome is that there will be others on that line?

G.R.C. The scripture seems to suppose that. The Lord in Matthew does not seem to suppose that it will come down to less than two or three, because it is His pleasure, no doubt, to maintain something of assembly character which requires two or three.

H.S. And Timothy speaks of "with those".

G.R.C. That is right -- "with those" -- and that is just as much a commandment as the other. There is the command, "let him that names the name of the Lord withdraw from iniquity"; but it is equally

a commandment that you should pursue certain things "with those". It is your responsibility to find them, if they are about anywhere.

C.R.H. Do you think that sometimes we might be inclined to think that this standard of fellowship is too high? Is that why the verse you were quoting in John's epistle immediately goes on to speak of the provision of the blood of Jesus Christ His Son -- to keep us?

G.R.C. It is. That is a most beautiful verse because "walking in the light" is more than any of us could afford to do if there was not "the blood of Jesus Christ God's Son" in its abiding efficacy, available. "Walking in the light" involves that you realise what a sinner you are, and that your heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, and if you did not know the grace of God and the efficacy of Christ's blood, you would run away from the light -- you would hide yourself -- like Adam did, when God walked in the garden in the cool of the day. Adam must have said, 'Well, I couldn't walk like that, I couldn't walk in the light with God. I have got something to hide'. But then, "walking in the light" means that we should not have anything to hide. Because of what we are by nature, things are always cropping up from our flesh, though there is no need for that to disqualify us from walking in the light, because it can be immediately judged and confessed and forgiven. That may happen many times a day in my own secret thoughts -- "the thought of foolishness is sin" -- and communion is thereby interrupted. The moment you feel something has come in to grieve the Spirit -- and such may be cherishing some little grudge against a brother and

letting it work just a little while before you judge it -- the Spirit is grieved; but as soon as you confess it to the Father the efficacy of the blood is always there, so that you can go on in the light immediately again.

C.R.H. Is that why David in Psalm 32 says, "While I kept silence my bones waxed old", then he goes on to say, "I acknowledged my sin". Is it our slowness to confess that results in "waxing old"?

G.R.C. That is it. The principle of maintaining fellowship with God or with one another is that principle of acknowledging. We are very slow to acknowledge, even to God, when we think or do something wrong. When I say, "think something" I do not mean we can help evil thoughts coming in, but I mean letting them remain for a little while.

P.W. So that David, in relation to the prophecy of Nathan, had a traveller call on him there. If he had not entertained the traveller, there would not have been sin conceived -- the thoughts and intents of the heart. A thought becomes an intent if it is not immediately judged.

G.R.C. That is very good. You mean you think that the traveller, in that case, was his thought?

P.W. Yes. A thought if it is not judged becomes an intent and the intent becomes sin conceived, in that way.

G.R.C. That is very helpful -- so that we must not let these travellers stay. They come into the mind. We cannot help that, because the flesh is the flesh, but do not ask them to stay the night.

E.R.S. I think your reference is helpful as putting back this question of fellowship much earlier in our spiritual history. I never realised before that we could

take up this question of fellowship as early as Romans 7. Do you think that what encourages us is that it is not a question of spiritual growth, or stature, or degree of intelligence, but the youngest believer who wants to please the Lord Jesus is already basically in fellowship in a practical way?

G.R.C. That is right. So that fellowship, provided we have the forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit -- these fundamental things -- is not a matter of knowledge or doctrine, or growth of apprehension. Fellowship is a matter of right and wrong, good and evil. The moment sin comes in and I think something wrong or do something wrong and allow it, communion is severed -- not yet with the brethren, but it is severed with God and that is the main thing. The Spirit is grieved, and I have lost my communion with God. I may go to the meeting and the brethren know nothing about it, but the fact is I have lost the spring of things. The way of recovery is just acknowledgement. "I acknowledged my sin unto thee". But if a man will not acknowledge it, then God does not go on with him until he does acknowledge it -- it may be years -- then he has the groaning that our brother speaks of. But then if it becomes an overt matter, I have to confess it to the brethren as well. "If we confess our sins" -- but many of the secret matters no one knows but ourselves -- everyone knows the plague of his own heart -- that is between us and God. But sometimes something happens which necessitates some confession to our fellow men. If we will not acknowledge it God will not go on with us, and if the brethren were to go on with a man with unacknowledged sin, God would cease to go on with the brethren.

That is the truth. If a man has sinned, fellowship awaits the acknowledgement both with God in the first instance and with the brethren, but if we take back into fellowship a man who has sinned and will not acknowledge it, God will not go on with us.

P.W. "On this account many among you are weak and infirm, and a good many are fallen asleep". In respect of David's sin of pride in numbering the people, God came in, in judgment, on the people themselves. I am referring to your remark that God probably would not go on with the brethren.

G.R.C. No, if they go on with a man who has not acknowledged his sin, how can God go on with the brethren?

P.W. And do you think one has to be careful? Although Moses had the view of the land, the length and the breadth, God says, "Thou shalt not go up hence". It was because of the wrong thought of the high calling of God of His people -- in relation to a stiffnecked and rebellious people. There are all those sides to consider are there not? -- wrong thoughts of the people of God -- there is the one body, one Spirit and one baptism and so on.

G.R.C. Well, that is very testing, because we should never lower the level of our thoughts of the people of God, whatever their practical state. We cannot go on in fellowship with them if their practical walk is wrong, because otherwise we shall not get God's support. But we should never lower our thoughts, because the Corinthians were wrong in almost every department of life; and Paul still says, "sanctified in Christ Jesus", and he still says, "but ye have been washed, but ye have been sanctified, but ye have been justified", 1 Corinthians 6:11. We might

have said that 'they are not washed at all -- look at all the things they are going on with' -- but he says you are washed you are sanctified you are justified, "in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God". So that he did not call any of them common or unclean.

H.S. It says of Moses, "yea he loved the people", that is lovely isn't it?

G.R.C. Yes.

E.R.S. It is significant there that, while Paul loved them so much, in writing his first letter he says, "out of anguish of heart and with many tears". He makes a special point of telling them he would not come to them -- he kept away from them -- he kept separate from them, while yearning over them and doing all in his power to help them. Are those the two lines to be followed when there are local difficulties?

G.R.C. I think so. He evidently was not free to go and break bread with them. As an apostle it would have been necessary for him to deal with things before he could have broken bread there. But he kept the right outlook on them and, as you say, with many tears he wrote.

E.R.S. He did not lose contact with them. Is that the difference? He shepherded them and kept in touch with them without condoning them by the outward sign of fellowship. Is that the point?

G.R.C. And you must always remember that in connection with practical enjoyment of privileges and the position we have spoken of. The Lord did not condone what was going on, because not only did He discipline them -- as our brother has said many are weak and sickly -- but, when they came together

to eat it was "not to eat the Lord's Supper". So that there was that about it too that you cannot trifle with divine things. If we are not true to the principles of fellowship and the judgment of right and wrong, keeping our senses exercised, we may continue to go on together and continue to break bread, but we have lost the Lord's Supper. That is, the Lord does not come -- the Lord is not there -- He does not own it.

E.R.S. Although the breaking of bread still continues?

G.R.C. Yes, though all the outward forms continue. We cannot claim the Lord's Supper -- no company can clam it as a matter of right -- or because they are in a certain position. As far as position goes, all Christians are in this divine position which we have spoken of -- I do not know of any other position. But it is a question of a walk consistent with the position, which the Lord can own. Nothing we have said of course should make us be turned in upon ourselves as to what we find in ourselves. The aim of scripture is to keep us from being turned in upon ourselves. If we walk in the light, the light is bound to expose what is in us by nature; but the blood of Jesus Christ His Son is always available, and if we confess our sins there is free forgiveness -- there is no need for a cloud to remain. Little clouds come for a moment, but there is no need for them to be anything but momentary, whether between ourselves and God or between ourselves and one another, they should all be momentary and gone.

K.P. So in Acts, it says they persevered in the teaching and fellowship -- it is a continual matter is it not?

G.R.C. Yes, a persevering matter. The final thing in walking is the golden street. It goes right through scripture. God walks in the garden in the cool of the day, Genesis 3, and "the street of the city was pure gold as transparent as glass", Revelation 21 and 22, and it says that, "In the midst of its street, and of the river, on this side and on that side, the tree of life". It is a wonderful thing to be on the street because you have the tree of life in the midst of it and upon this side and on that, and the river, the water of life, going along it. Now what is the main purpose of the street? I would say it corresponds with the first idea of walking -- that is, the main thing in that street is that there you can walk with God -- without a cloud.

H.S. Would you say a word as to the suggestion of God walking with us in 2 Corinthians 6. Is that the other side of it?

G.R.C. That is very affecting. "I will dwell among them and walk among them; and I will be their God". It bears on this question of fellowship, as to whether God can walk with us in an evil world. So that there are the two sides: We walk with God -- wonderful grace -- God suggests as a promise -- "I will dwell among them and walk among them" and of course that will be true of the city in fulness. God will walk among His people in the golden street. There will be wonderful fellowship with one another, but the great thing is that God is there. Walking together involves communion. Now that is the thought of walk connected with fellowship.

The other thought connected with fellowship that was in my mind was sharing in common, but unless you have the walk, unless we are walking together,

we cannot begin to share in common the blessedness of this threefold position that belongs to us.

And so you find persons who are not true to Christian fellowship -- not walking consistently with the position -- know nothing of it. We can hold them in relation to it in our affections, but what do they know of the one body in practice? What do they know of the kingdom of the Son of His love? What do they know of the house of God and its joys and its privileges and its service? That is the way our joy becomes full.

B.D. Does the fellowship involve a bond? I wondered if you could say something as to that.

G.R.C. It is a sort of partnership. The fellowship is a question of fidelity to this threefold position. God in grace has given us the most magnificent position that the creature could have. Now He calls upon us, out of love for Him, for fidelity. He is faithful and it is for us to be faithful in committal. We commit ourselves in that sense -- as you say we might call it a bond -- but God has called us into the fellowship. It does not mean that all Christians are in it, any more than God having called us out of the world means that all Christians have answered and come out of the world. God has called us out of the world and into the fellowship of His Son. Now, in the threefold position we have spoken of, God has simply placed us there. It is not merely a question of calling us, but He has put us there in sovereignty, and there we are because He has put us there. He calls us out of the world and into the fellowship which involves our fidelity to the position. He calls us to be faithful. He is faithful and He calls us to be faithful to the position in which He

has set us; so that our walk together and with God involves the maintenance and integrity of every divine institution connected with nature and with every divine spiritual institution.

Some of our brethren in the sects may surpass us in the way they carry out every natural institution. As husbands and wives, masters or servants, they carry out those things with integrity, as Christians. But there is another range of things altogether to be carried out, and that is to put into practice the truth of the one body, and to put into practice the truth of the kingdom -- true to our baptism and the Name called upon us there, and true to the whole Christian faith, one Lord, one faith, one baptism -- and true to God's house. Now pursuing righteousness involves both. Righteousness is not merely that we maintain every natural institution that God has created in integrity, but for a Christian to follow righteousness means that he also maintains in integrity the divine institutions, the spiritual ones. If I am not governed by the truth of the one body, from that standpoint. I am an unrighteous man -- because I am a member of it and I have got responsibilities as well as privileges.

C.R.H. Is that why the verses read in Corinthians which follow the necessity to flee from idolatry speak of communion or fellowship in connection with three matters -- one is the blood, another is the body and then the altar. Does fellowship carry with it responsibility as to these matters?

G.R.C. Exactly. You see, it is a cup of blessing. Untold blessing has come to us by way of the cup, the new covenant in Christ's blood. But it involves responsibility. That blessing has been secured for

us by way of the Lord Jesus making the supreme sacrifice to uphold God's righteousness and holiness and His glory. And so, if we partake of the cup of blessing it calls upon us to be in accord with what He has established at such a cost -- God's holiness, God's righteousness. His glory. So with the bread -- "the communion of the body of the Christ" involves, in practice, that we could not tolerate our bodies being used for anything but what His body was used for. His body was used for God's will, and to express God. It is just hypocritical to say we are in communion with the body of Christ, if our bodies are being used for our gratification. We are out of accord with His body altogether. And that involves communion with the altar, that is, His sacrifice. And of course communion with the altar is a most blessed thing. Not only that we eat there, "We have an altar of which they have no right to eat", Hebrews 13:10, it is the place of eating -- the most holy food -- but it is the place of service Godward. We are in communion with all that, and that is the measure of our responsibility: as to the fellowship, that is the character of it.

E.R.S. Does it also involve that we consider, not just our individual, our local position in the body, and our practical walk in relation to it, but we also consider the consciences and exercises of other members of the body however far away geographically they may be from us? It strikes at the root of local independence does it not?

G.R.C. Quite so. Independency is one of the most potent weapons of Satan at all times and especially at the present time. The principle of independency of local meetings says, 'As long as we are all right here, it does not matter what others are doing'. But

scripture teaches that you have fellowship -- which is the same word as partake -- you have fellowship or partake in the sins of all those you are linked with in fellowship; you cannot escape it.

H.S. And that is being refused in some quarters. The element of independency is becoming blatant, and I think what you are saying as to the fellowship is helping all of us.

G.R.C. It is a matter of righteousness to be true to the truth of the one body, "There is one body and one Spirit". To be true to the one body means that we must completely reject sectarianism -- which denies the truth of the one body -- we can have nothing to say to sectarianism. The only basis on which we can come together is that of the one body and no sect. Secondly, that we must completely reject the idea of the independency of local companies, because that is equally against the truth of the one body and there are those in certain parts of the country now whose practice is on the line of the independence of local companies, and yet they maintain that they are practising true separation from sects. But that is only half the thing. That a company should be free from sectarianism is one thing; but if they say, 'We are a little local company -- we are independent of all others, we are not bothered about what others are doing anywhere else', even though they would receive from such companies, 'We are not concerned with what they are doing' -- that also is just as much against the truth of the one body as if they were acknowledging all sects, because independency is incompatible with it -- we belong to one -- God has made us members of a universal organism, not a local one.

H.S. There is a great danger, I think, of our falling

to the level of a sect. One hears occasionally 'other denominations' which of course is false, is it not? The response to 2 Timothy 2 in some minds has given us a special position, whereas that appeal is to every believer, is it not?

G.R.C. Well that was what I was meaning earlier on, as to the way the use of the word 'position' has been abused. There is no special position -- it is not a position at all that 2 Timothy 2 brings in, it is a path. It is a path consistent with the position in which all believers are set by God.

C.R.H. So in connection with the matter of "one body" that has been stressed, and being governed by the principle of one body, does that oneness involve the thought of unity; not merely oneness numerically, and is it based on the thought of one Spirit?

G.R.C. Yes it is.

C.R.H. So that independency really strikes at the root of unity, does it not, and oneness in relation to the Spirit?

G.R.C. It certainly does entirely, and whether we realise it or not, it grieves the Spirit and means that the most precious things will never become available to us.

B.D. So we have to use diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace.

G.R.C. Yes we do. There is one body and one Spirit; and the first reference in Corinthians is to the dignity of the fellowship -- the fellowship of God's Son -- it is the enjoyment in common of all that God's Son has brought in. The second is to the character of it -- the fellowship of His body and blood and fellowship with the altar. But the third reference in Corinthians, "the fellowship of the Holy Spirit",

2 Corinthians 13:14, is the power and vitality of it which we lose if we do not maintain the truth of the one body. We lose the power and vitality of the Spirit in our collective relations. He will still support us as far as He can, if one might use such a word. He will still support us as individual Christians in a path of individual devotedness; but as to collective relations, the power and vitality is gone.

E.R.S. Is that why it is so significant that after those two great epistles of 1 and 2 Corinthians that is the final impression the Holy Spirit would leave with us -- the maintenance of vitality in Him; and the power of the Spirit is the only resource in which the good of those great teachings can be maintained. Is that why it is the closing touch at the end?

G.R.C. I think so, it is the only resource. It really is wonderful the place the Holy Spirit has, because it is through Him that we are members of the body, it is through Him that we are in the kingdom of the Son of God's love, because, "the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit", and it is through Him that we do belong to the house of God, for a habitation of God in the Spirit, and if all these things are through Him, He must be the vital energising power of the whole matter and that is what He is prepared to be. The matter rests on our responsibility in walking consistently with the position.

M.R.H. Does recognising our responsibility precede the full enjoyment of the privilege?

G.R.C. That is it. In maintaining the responsibility, we enjoy the privilege of the position and our joy is full and the things work, of course. They interact. The more we are faithful, the more we enjoy

the privileges of the position, and the more we enjoy the privileges the more we are strengthened to be faithful, and the more we get discernment as to what faithfulness requires. Is that right?

M.R.H. Yes, I am sure it is.

G.R.C. And the Holy Spirit will bring in all the wealth connected with that threefold position.

E.R.S. So that the result, at the end, is that the Son of God, the Lord Jesus, who is Son over God's house -- whose house it is -- and the Holy Spirit, who forms and fills that house, Themselves have joy from the saints. So that our joy, although full -- as John says, "these things I write unto you that your joy may be full" -- our joy is not the objective, but we ourselves are forgotten, and the blessed God has His own portion of joy. "He shall rest in His love He shall joy over them with singing".

G.R.C. Quite so. So that we become cupbearers, in that way. But that first verse in Corinthians, 1 Corinthians 1:9, is comprehensive -- the fellowship of God's Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. God's Son implies relationship for us, the sharing in common of the joys of sonship and of the house of God. Then the title, "Christ" comes in, which involves the truth of the body, and the title "Lord" which involves the joys of the kingdom. It is the sharing of all these things in common. It is the fellowship of God's Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.