Pages 1 - 138-"Prayer: Characteristic of the Perfect Man". Wellington N.Z., 1925 (Volume 70).

PRAYER: CHARACTERISTIC OF THE PERFECT MAN (1)

Luke 3:21,22; Luke 5:15 - 17

J.T. A line of thought came before my mind that may commend itself. The Lord is seen praying frequently throughout Luke's gospel, and in looking into the subject it occurred to me that these instances have a constructive bearing, not in regard to His Person, but in regard to the example He sets, and the results that accrue from prayer as seen in these various instances. The consideration would enable us to touch on certain features of Luke's gospel that I think would prove helpful.

In order that we may have the instances before us, the first is in chapter 3 -- His baptism, the second in chapter 5, the third in chapter 6, the fourth and fifth in chapter 9, the sixth in chapter 11, and the last in chapter 22. We may now take up chapters 3 and 5, and see how we get on.

I suppose we have all been struck with the place that prayer has in Luke. The Lord is seen engaged in it in Luke more than in any of the other evangelists, and the book of Acts shows how the example set by the Lord in Luke is taken up by those who followed, particularly in the great vessel through whom the light of the gospel came to us Gentiles. The Lord's commendation at his conversion was, "Behold he prayeth". Acts 9:11. He said this to Ananias. In order to bring the great value of prayer more closely to ourselves, the great work at Philippi, inaugurating the work of God in Europe began in prayer. Paul and Silas and those with them arriving at Philippi are found in connection with a few who prayed by a river:

and later it says that as they went to prayer a damsel with a spirit of Python met them and would discredit what they were going on with by calling attention to them as "the servants of the most high God". Acts 16:17. They were not engaged in that connection. They were about to introduce the gospel into Europe, and Satan would defeat this if possible. They are cast into prison, but are said to be engaged in prayer. Paul and Silas in praying praised God, and the prisoners heard them, and thus the work began. There can be no doubt that God intends to impress us all by that -- the need of prayer if the work is to be sustained -- if the testimony is to be sustained. So I thought if we looked at these two passages, perhaps the first would help us as to how the believer takes his place publicly with the people of God, because that is what we see here in Luke 3 -- the entry, so to say, of one's way in connection with the testimony of God -- identification with His people. It says, "When all the people were baptised, it came to pass that Jesus also, being baptised". There is a word in it especially to young Christians, I believe, as to how they take up their place with the people of God.

E.B.McC. I think it is most important to see how the Lord sets the example as the dependent Man.

J.T. If one identifies himself with the people of God in this attitude he is not likely to be a public charge spiritually.

J.C.S. I think that is very good. The Lord Jesus here is introduced as the Pattern; and, as you said, the work with Paul and Silas was all the fruit of this Pattern.

J.T. We see how Paul became identified with the people of God. He was recommended to them as one who prays.

J.C.S. So that, as you say, the man who prays will not be a charge or grief to the brethren. He will be one who can contribute.

J.T. It is a very important point -- very remarkable and practical; because, as taking our place with the people of God, we are either going to be a liability or an asset; but one who comes in in this way will be a contributor, which every one of us should be.

Ques. Would prayer follow baptism as a consequence?

J.T. In baptism there is the renunciation of all you might rely on in the flesh, so that now you need God. You need God in this position.

E.B.McC. He leads in this way. Others were baptised, but it does not say they were praying.

J. T. He leads here. The Lord is leading the way for all who should follow in taking their place in relation to the people of God. This is the way to enter.

J.C.S. I think you said the other day that the Lord Jesus was prepared to wait until everyone else was baptised. Should that spirit mark one coming amongst the people of God?

J.T. I think so. All the people having been baptised, Jesus was baptised.

Rem. Baptism is a public thing. Not so prayer.

J.T. It is here. Later we shall find the Lord praying alone, and in secret, but here it is necessary that the brethren should know that you pray; otherwise they might think you are going to be a charge. Not that they might not take you on as a charge, because the people of God are wealthy, and they can carry one a long way; but those who come in and identify themselves publicly with the people of God ought to indicate at the outset their trust in God.

S.F. And in that way they would be recognised as additional support for the company.

R.McM. I suppose you would say it will soon be apparent to the brethren whether one prays or not.

J.T. No doubt. But you have the idea in Scripture of a good report. Timothy had the testimony of a good report among the brethren; and in speaking

to Ananias the Lord does not say of Saul, 'I appeared to him', but "behold he prayeth". Acts 9:11. That is what the Lord refers to as a commendation for this young brother coming in.

Ques. Was it not important that those who were to bear testimony to the resurrection of Christ should be acquainted with the Lord as found in Luke?

J.T. That is where the assembling began. The nominee for the apostleship was to be one who had assembled with them during all the time the Lord Jesus went in and out among them, beginning with the baptism of John until He went up, so that one would have knowledge of this incident in assembling with the brethren at the outset.

J.C.S. So that the first incident would really show the impression they received when they heard Jesus praying at the beginning.

J.T. And a thought would come up into one's mind that He prayed. And as He prayed the heavens were opened. That is, we get the idea of the approval of heaven, which is another feature; for young believers, in taking their place with the people of God, should inquire, 'Is heaven satisfied?'

J.C.S. Heaven would not be really satisfied with other than a person who prays; that is, it is a praying person who draws out the approval of heaven.

S.F. Is one thought in connection with prayer, that we realise we have no resources in ourselves? Such a revolution has taken place in our souls that we turn to a divine source for supply.

J.T. You are qualifying for the assembly as you begin thus.

Heaven owns Him. There is a very distinct word in that. "Jesus, having been baptised, and praying ... the heaven was opened". Heaven was taking account of what was there -- what was coming out. It is not a question of God's knowledge of the Person

who was there, because that is ever true. It is heaven taking account of what was developed publicly.

Ques. I suppose we have to learn that we have entered into death by baptism, and all our spiritual resources come from heaven.

J.T. That is the thing, and as we recognise that we qualify for the assembly. We are learning to depend on heaven -- on God.

J.C.S. It is beautiful to think that such conditions existed here on earth in that Man that heaven opened and took account of those conditions, and endorsed everything that was found there.

J.T. Exactly. It is beautiful.

R.J.W. Is that why the voice in Luke is directly to the Lord Jesus? In Matthew it is more in reference to those surrounding Him.

J.T. Quite. In Mark it is also direct.

R.J.W. Luke's presentation suggests something most important in connection with prayer.

J.T. You see in a man like Apollos, who only had the light of John's baptism, how he is prepared for adjustment. Some are at a disadvantage through receiving only partial light at the outset; but, that being received rightly, it lays the basis for further light. It lays the basis for adjustment. Anyone who receives the gospel, even although it is presented partially or imperfectly, if he receives the element of light rightly, will be ready for adjustment later. We know that a very imperfect gospel is preached today abroad, but nevertheless there is light in it, and where that light is received honestly there is hope, because there is readiness for adjustment. If one is not ready for adjustment there is no hope of fitting him into the assembly. He might be an eloquent man like Apollos, and mighty in the Scriptures, but unless he is ready for adjustment he will never fit into the assembly. He may go abroad and preach, getting converts and renown, but he never

comes into the assembly as fitting into it practically. But you see with Apollos, he knew John's baptism -- "Knowing only the baptism of John", Acts 18:25 it says. He knew that, and he is ready for adjustment, so that Aquila and Priscilla take him and show him "the way of God more exactly", Acts 18:26. It is a great thing in taking one's place with the people of God, according to the light one has, to be ready for adjustment, because there is more light than one has, but if one has the thing honestly he is ready to be helped.

R.McM. There are those who have not much light, but if they are true to the light they have they will get more.

J.T. I think what is going on is of great service. Those who have the light of Christ and of the assembly are to help in adjusting others. The gospel is going but, though imperfectly. Nevertheless there is light in it, and the great service that is open to those who have light is adjusting others as they are ready for it.

C.H.H. That is where the value of prayer comes in, In depending on God you turn from the path of independence to the path of dependence, so that there is room for the adjustment you speak of.

J.T. The service of adjustment is within the range of sisters. Anyone may humbly help one like Apollos. It will be observed that both Aquila and Priscilla had part in the service rendered to him. It was no question of preaching, nor was it a question of teaching exactly, but of unfolding the way of God more exactly. One who is on the way can show it.

J.C.S. It is very encouraging that even where the light has been only partially received it has brought elements into the soul that make adjustment and construction possible.

J.T. I thought Apollos stands out as a model in that way.

J.C.S. So you would encourage us to be free and on the look out for such souls. Even sisters may help them.

J.T. Take one like Anna, the prophetess. She served God instantly night and day with fasting; but she also spoke of Christ to all those that looked for redemption. That is, wherever anyone was exercised she would speak to him, and did. That service is within the range of sisters. It can be done as Aquila and Priscilla did it. They did not say to Apollos publicly, 'What you are preaching is not exactly right'. "They took him unto them" Acts 18:26; but they rendered a great service, not only to him, but to the whole assembly, because it says he contributed much to the brethren; and that is the idea -- one is to contribute to the brethren.

L.D.B. It says that Aquila and Priscilla, having heard Apollos, took him unto them. Doubtless they discerned that he had light from God.

E.B.McC. So we never know how far reaching our service may be. As you say, he contributed to the brethren. He was able to help the brethren after he had been helped himself. Would you say we always need to be ready to be adjusted?

J.T. I am sure that is so, and being ready to adjust others too.

M.P.M. The disciples felt their lack when they asked the Lord why they could not do as He had done. He said, "This kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting". Matthew 17:21.

J.C.S. So it must be by prayer. Are we alive to the possibilities there are in our position? It is full of possibilities.

J.T. I thought the Lord might help us to see these possibilities in looking at this prayer in Luke.

Rem. Luke would encourage us greatly. He opens the gospel with people praying.

J.T. He opens the gospel with a man -- a priest.

and his wife of the daughters of Aaron -- who was devout, and walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord, blameless. He serves in the order of his course. He waited on his service, which was to offer incense. That is in connection with prayer. As he offered incense at the altar, the people were praying outside -- a very beautiful spectacle for heaven. It is very remarkable that Luke should begin in this way. Then an angel appears on the right side of the altar of incense and tells Zacharias that his supplications and intercessions had been heard. You see at the very outset of the gospel we are encouraged with the thought that we are heard. He evidently asked for a son; but then he begins to question in unbelief, and the angel says, "Thou shalt be dumb, ... until the day that these things shall be performed". Luke 1:20. Thus while Zacharias is a remarkable example of prayer, yet he shows that in our prayers we may be unbelieving. It is not merely our prayers therefore; it is a question of the prayer of faith -- that we believe the Lord will give us what we ask for.

Rem. Cornelius is a beautiful example of that. It says, he "prayed to God alway", Acts 10:20 and his prayers were heard.

J.T. I think he is a very remarkable example. He prayed and he gave alms, showing how genuinely he had been affected.

Rem. I suppose true prayer and conditions suitable for God to give light go together. Prayer would produce conditions in which God can work.

J.C.S. Cornelius would also be illustrative of what you said earlier: that one who prays is one who contributes.

Ques. Is he in the light of the assembly?

J.T. No, he is not in the light of the assembly yet. He is pious, but he has not the light of the gospel nor of the assembly yet; but he presents very beautifully what comes in through prayer. Then it says Peter

went up to the house-top to pray, and in his prayer he fell into an ecstasy, and saw a sheet coming down. There again you have heaven coming into view. The man of God is impressed, with the result that the Gentiles are happily brought in.

E.B.McC. That is very remarkable. You find these conditions there, and in Luke. Wonderful conditions they are.

J.T. Luke makes a point of that. God takes account of whatever may be of Himself, and enlarges on it.

C.H.H. Is it not a wonderful beginning with the Lord Jesus -- the beginning of His public testimony? It would indicate the gain for one who begins with prayer. He is a pleasure to heaven.

J.T. You may be sure that what heaven approves will soon be approved by the brethren.

G.R.G. Is prayer possible apart from the Spirit?

J.T. Well, you couldn't pray in the Holy Spirit unless you had the Holy Spirit. But I think the Scriptures show, as in the case of Cornelius, that one who has not the Spirit may pray and the prayer be heard. In Luke 11 it is said that the heavenly Father gives His Spirit to those who ask Him.

Ques. I was wondering whether we should distinguish between prayer and "praying in the Holy Spirit".

J.T. I think we should. Many pray, and it cannot be said to be a prayer in the Holy Spirit, because one may not have the Spirit. Saul prayed before he received the Spirit; Acts 9.

J.C.S. So a person might pray without the Holy Spirit and be very mixed, but what is of God will be taken account of by heaven.

J.T. The passage in Jude refers to the saints together. Of course we should all seek to pray in the Spirit. Inasmuch as we have the Spirit, we may pray in the Spirit, whether individually or collectively.

S.F. Still, it is encouraging to see heaven so attentive to a prayer like Cornelius's.

Rem. You would say that a praying brother or sister would be of great value to the assembly. I was thinking of Epaphras labouring fervently in prayer for the Colossians.

J.T. I do not know of any greater service, and it is within the range of all.

Ques. Would you say our prayer meeting is one of the most important meetings we have?

J.T. Yes. Acts 16 shows that the introduction of the gospel into Europe began with a prayer meeting. There was a place there "where prayer was wont to be made". Acts 16:13. Then again, "as we went to prayer". Acts 16:16. They were to pray collectively. Matthew 6 emphasises individual prayer: "Enter into thy chamber, and, having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret". Matthew 6:6. No one can be rewarded openly -- for instance, be able to pray acceptably in the assembly -- unless he learns to pray to God in secret.

J.C.S. So that the Lord, in the second scripture we read, would be the Pattern. He withdrew into the wilderness.

J.T. Yes. That is what we all need to do. The next thing is, you begin to feel the great need there is, and you look abroad and see it. That is what comes out in the fifth chapter. The leper had been healed, and it says, "The report concerning him was spread abroad still more, and great crowds came together to hear, and to be healed from their infirmities. And he withdrew himself and was about in the desert places and praying", Luke 5:15,16. The desert brings up another line. He is praying amongst the repentant remnant in the third chapter, after His baptism, and heaven opens to Him, and the Holy Spirit comes down. Heaven is restful there; but here He is in the presence of need. They come from all directions to be healed. How is this going to be

met? That is what comes up in the fifth chapter, so that the Lord sets us a pattern. He withdrew. The fact that the multitude is there and you are there is not enough. Of course fulness is always there in the Lord, but we are speaking now of the pattern He sets us. You have to go into the desert, where there is nothing for the flesh. A large congregation tends to minister to the flesh; and the platform tends to minister to the flesh. The desert is where we learn that the flesh is not respected at all. It says, the Lord withdrew Himself, and was without in the desert places and praying. They had come from all directions, and, instead of meeting the need, He withdrew into the desert. That is the experience that has to be gone through if we are to be effective. If the power of God is to be seen in us, we have to understand what it is to withdraw into the desert and pray.

Rem. So that one has constantly to be in the recognition that everything must come down.

J.C.S. The Lord Jesus is a Pattern of a heavenly and dependent Man in that connection, although, as you have already noted, while He was here as Man there was in Him fulness of power. He had taken the place of dependence here.

M.P.M. Would withdrawing into the desert be akin to the thought of fasting?

J.T. It shows you are determined not to feed the flesh, because a large congregation to minister to, for anyone who has ability to preach, is food for the flesh, and we have to be on our guard against it. The Lord had taken a place here in dependence, and He sets out the way of service. You must retire, so that the flesh may not be strengthened or ministered to.

R.J.W. The gain of it seems to be in that connection, because the report is spread abroad of His fame. He withdraws from all that.

J.T. He shows us how to avoid the snare of the devil through popularity or prominence.

A.H.R. Would what you are saying be anything like Philip? He was successful in his evangelistic work, but he is told to go down to the desert after one soul.

J.T. That is a good illustration of it.

J.C.S. Do you think that if we really laid hold of the spirit underlying all this it would draw us aside, and we would be with the Lord in all that was engaging us, so that we might have a right perspective?

J.T. Quite. The flesh is so insidious. It asserts itself on all occasions, and the Lord shows us here how we are to check it. It is not that there is any- thing of that in Him; it is that He graciously sets us an example. "He withdrew himself" -- the pronoun is emphatic in the New Translation.

J.C.S. Heaven must have looked on with peculiar delight, as it witnessed the Lord Jesus in these conditions, seeing Him alone there.

Ques. Was not this what God had been looking for from the outset?

J.T. It says, "I have found my delight". The word 'found' is to be noted.

D.B. When the Lord came out of the desert "the Lord's power was there to heal them".

J.T. "It came to pass on one of the days that he was teaching ... and the Lord's power was there to heal them" (verse 17). The "Lord" there is Jehovah.

L.D.B. The thought of healing is very touching.

Ques. Would the Pharisees and doctors of the law illustrate the flesh -- its ability, etc.?

J.T. What could put all that in its place save the power of God? Get all the education -- the theological training that the seminaries are able to afford -- and set that down alongside the power of God, and where is it? It is put into the shade. The power of God cannot be gainsaid, and it comes in through prayer.

Take a man the Lord intends to use. At this time He had just revealed Himself to Peter. Peter, James and John were just fishermen. What were they against these doctors of the law and Pharisees? What were they according to the ordinary estimate of religious leaders of the world? They were nothing. But they were to have the power of God, which these leaders had not. The power of God was to come in, and it comes in through prayer.

J.C.S. So that a man who goes into the desert and prays learns how the Lord did things. That would be effective in the assembly and in public testimony.

R.J.W. When the Lord comes back to the need He knows how to meet it, as having been with God.

J.T. He meets it, too, in men who had repute. We have to face this, that need exists in the world, even in these doctors of the law and Pharisees. Not only were they unable to do anything, but they themselves needed help. Well, how are we to meet these circumstances save as we turn to God in prayer? We may say we are on the right ground and have the truth; but that is not enough. The power of God is needed, and where it exists it cannot be gainsaid. The power of the Lord was there to heal them. It does not say they were healed by it, but it was there, and it was there through prayer.

S.F. So that having the power present is greater than the effects of the power. There will be no effect without the power.

A.H.R. Have you any thought as to the difference between the two companies, one in the 15th verse and the other in the 17th? They are two different companies.

J.T. The company in verse 17 is brought in as a test. Unless you have the power of God you come into ridicule. As to the company of verse 17 it says, "There were Pharisees and doctors of the law sitting by".

They would take notice, and, you may depend, would not be slow to criticise, so that what we need is prayer to meet all this. The power of God cannot be gainsaid.

G.R.G. It says, "the power of the Lord was present to heal them". Would it magnify Christ?

J.T. It did. The grace of God is here for all men, and the doctors of the law were men, the same as others; that is the attitude to maintain. The heart of God is towards the religious dignitaries of Christendom as well as towards the common people.

Ques. Would you say power is available for every one of us?

J.T. It is. I think that is what we ought to see.

A.R.G. Do you attach importance to the conditions as well as the prayer?

J.T. Yes. Here it is "in the desert places". The flesh in us is averse to going there.

J.C.S. So that a man who prays loses confidence in himself and in everything outside of God.

J.T. I suppose that every seminary in the world makes provision for the flesh. Now the desert is the opposite of that -- it makes no provision for the flesh. Religious training that makes provision for the flesh is the opposite of what we have here.

Ques. Would not the result of this be really to humble one and magnify God?

J.T. That is the thought -- it brings the flesh to nothing.

Ques. A man of this kind would have power with God and men.

J.T. He would. In coming in from the desert to preach you have learned the worthlessness of the flesh. You do not commend the flesh -- you do not appeal to it; it is no better in you than in anyone else. One who has learned to disallow the flesh in himself will not appeal to the flesh in other people; he will not say anything to influence the flesh.

A.H.R. I was wondering whether He withdrew Himself from the first company so as pot to be made anything of, and the second was His test as to site.

J.T. I think that is right. These Pharisees and doctors of the law represent the religious power of Jerusalem. Still, the power of God was there even for them.

W.J.P. Would you say if we accept popularity there is no power?

J.T. We have seen it at times -- one accepting popularity with the result that there was no power.

Rem. In connection with the gatherings, sometimes we have occasion to be very concerned about a certain trouble, it may be a brother taking part when he should not. In prayer we have an effectual remedy, for the removal of that; but we so often lose sight of the true remedy for the removal of many things, and we take our own way to remove them, and this only makes the trouble worse.

J.T. Instead of bringing God in. It says, "If two of you shall agree on the earth concerning any matter, whatsoever it may be that they shall ask, it shall come to them from my Father who is in the heavens", Matthew 18:19. Any local difficulty arising can be most effectually met thus, if there are even two that are of the assembly and they agree.

Ques. Would this incident expose to us the impossibility of fleshly ability meeting need? In the presence of the need the doctors were sitting by, and there was inability to meet it in any wise. The Lord alone can do that.

J.T. I thought verse 15 is, as has been remarked, the result of one's fame going abroad. Then the people begin to come to hear Him. The flesh in us would take advantage of that. The Lord withdraws; and then it is on one of the days after that, meaning that the Lord did not fix the day. It was as if any time you came to Him the power would be there. It

was not a fixed meeting like this we are at now, but "one of the days" -- any of them, so to speak. It is quite right we should pray and prepare for special occasions, but the thing is to be in the power at all times.

J.C.S. So the Lord Jesus was really characterised by prayer and power.

J.T. On any day you met Him the power would be there.

J.C.S. I think that is where perhaps we are so deficient; we are not always equal to the occasion.

J.T. We prepare ourselves for special occasions, which is right truly; but how am I on my ordinary days, when there is nothing special on hand?

J.C.S. It seems to me there is great encouragement in all this. It brings something within the reach of the youngest person, and one sees wonderful possibilities wrapped up in it if we are prepared to follow the pattern.

Ques. Do you suggest that the doctors of the law were delivered from the theological line and brought into dependence on God?

J.T. I do not think you can go that far. They were there: it does not say they were healed. The fact that they were doctors of the law would show that there was an element there that would be a test. If you got the Archbishop here and the leading clerics of the city, whatever motive underlay their coming, they would be a test to you. But the power of God cannot be gainsaid, whatever their reputation for learning might be.

Ques. Would you say the Jewish leaders missed their opportunity?

J.T. No doubt they did; but in the next verse we get "men bringing upon a couch a man who was paralysed", and they set the couch before Him. This man is going to get the blessing. It does not say the others did. There is one man going to receive the

blessing; that is, you have men exercised about one. They are carrying him; they are concerned about his state, and he receives the blessing. The Lord says, "But that ye may know that the Son of man has power on earth to forgive sins, he said to the paralysed man, I say to thee, Arise, take up thy little couch and go to thine house. And immediately standing up before them, having taken up that whereon he was laid, he departed to his house, glorifying God". That man got it; he was borne in by others, and he is sent to his own house carrying his bed.

M.P.M. Their faith and prayer were owned by the Lord.

J.T. Quite.

Ques. Do you think there is to be movement on the Lord's side in view of bringing this in at the present moment?

J.T. Well, I thought He would move in that way. The service of prayer is really as effective as any service available, and it is within the reach of all.

PRAYER: CHARACTERISTIC OF THE PERFECT MAN (2)

Luke 6:12 - 18; Luke 9:1 - 20

J.T. What came before us in chapter 5 may be connected with the exercises of the individual, who sees the need that exists, and learns that the flesh profits nothing in meeting it, so that he turns to God and finds the power of God available. But then it needs more than one. No true lover of the Lord Jesus wishes to arrogate to himself all the service, either locally or generally. He sees that the service involves variety, so I think the Lord, in chapter 6, brings before us this feature -- that you look for others to be used. You see the need is so extensive that it requires more than one. Hence the Lord's extended prayer, as it says, "all night". He went out into the mountain to pray, and he spent the night in prayer to God, and "when it was day he called unto him his disciples, and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles". Elsewhere he enjoins that they were to pray the Lord of the harvest to send out labourers, because the need was so great; and I believe the Lord would, at the present time, lay it upon us that the need is great, and that labourers should be sent out. It is the Lord who sends them out, of course; but He would send them out in answer to our desires.

E.B.McC. In connection with the chapter this morning you were pointing out that the scribes and teachers of the law were with the Lord, and the power was there to heal them. I suppose they would set forth man characterised by the flesh endeavouring to carry on the service of God. Now He spends all night in prayer in order that He might send out whom He would.

J.T. The miracle in the synagogue preceding this

prepares the way for it. "There was a man there", it says, "and his right hand was withered". Luke 6:6. However much intelligence one may have, if his right hand is withered he can do nothing. The right hand denotes a man's ability or power, so that it would suggest what there is in the synagogue -- what there is in the religious world. As it says, "Looking round about upon them all, he said unto the man, Stretch forth thy hand. And he did so; and his hand was restored whole as the other", (Luke 6:10). There you have the preparation for the prayer; one's right hand restored indicates his ability for service. There may be many who have ability for service -- the Lord has given it to them; but the next thing is that He should dispose of that.

J.C.S. Do you think the disciples who had been with Him up to this time had had, so to speak, their right hands restored? That is, their hands were really being prepared in view of service, and now the Lord spends a whole night in prayer to God in view of that selection.

J.T. That is it. There are many who have ability, but the next thing is they should come under the Lord's direction.

Rem. Would you say that such conditions can be met only by prayer -- "He continued all night in prayer"?

J.T. We shall be in each other's way, unless we come under the Lord's direction.

E.B.McC. The hand would then be at the Lord's disposal.

J.T. That is it. All your power or ability for service is held now for the Lord, and He disposes of it; otherwise we shall be in each other's way. He makes the selection.

J.C.S. So that the Lord in that way recognises the existing ability.

J.T. He recognises the ability that there is. It is

seen here in the man's withered hand being restored. It is to be used, but then how used? Therefore it says, "God has set certain in the assembly". 1 Corinthians 12:28. God has done it. We have to look to the Lord for the disposal of the ability there is, that it should be used to the best possible advantage. It can be used thus only as He disposes of it. The matter was so serious that He spent all night in prayer. This is the only instance in which we have the Lord spending all night in prayer. It says, "He went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God". We have often spoken of long prayers as inimical to liberty in the assembly. I believe they should be short in the assembly, but this passage shows you can make them as long as a whole night individually. No one could spend his nights to better advantage, especially if sleepless nights, than in prayer.

S.F. I would suggest, too, that this dispensation should be marked by prayer; it is the dispensation of God, which is in faith, and so prayer should be constantly going up to God, showing dependence upon Him.

J.T. I think that is what is emphasised in Luke.

J.C.S. One is impressed with the way in which the Lord Jesus depends absolutely on heaven in connection with. His selection. That is -- one hardly likes to say it -- but it almost suggests that He wants to trust entirely to heaven for the selection.

J.T. You may be assured that it is set down here not only to show how entirely dependent He was, but that we should be dependent. It is all very well to say that such a brother has gift, and preaches beautifully, but you want to see him disposed of so that he is available to the best advantage to the saints. He has to come under the Lord's direction if he is to continue to be profitable, and hence we must bring him to the Lord.

Rem. Would you say continuing all night in prayer to God involves a knowledge of God? I think of how little some of us can sustain prayer in that way.

J.T. We lack an extended view. Our outlook is very narrow. As we think of the Lord's service the whole field should be before us. It says, He bought the field; and He has a right-of-way in it in that He has bought it. So that the whole field is before one if interested in this way, and you can easily spend a night, if you are disposed to, in going over the field, touching on the different points in which active work is proceeding.

Rem. I thought if we knew more of priesthood we should be able to pray more in the way that is true of the priest; he had the saints on his heart. Perhaps it would depend on how much we have the saints on our hearts. I had in mind to refer to the thought of the right hand in Ecclesiastes. It says, "A wise man's heart is at his right hand". Ecclesiastes 10:2.

J.T. This gospel has priesthood in view.

Ques. Is there another thought connected with the mountain? Would that give a good view of the field?

J.T. You are withdrawn from the influences of the plain; but it is in view of coming back into the plain, as the passage states. If you are to be with God you must be withdrawn from the influence of the plain. Moses was with Jehovah on the mountain, Aaron was with the people. Hence the great difference between them. Aaron was employed by the people in making an idol; whereas Moses, as with God, was able to come in and destroy the idol, and make the people drink of the water.

M.P.M. It states later, "having descended with them he stood on a level place" (verse 17); that would be the contrast.

J.C.S. You were speaking of the vastness of the field, and how the Lord would enlist our interests in it, that we might pray sympathetically and intelligently

in regard to all that He has under His eye to do. Thus, as you say, we would bring the servants to the Lord for the disposal of them; and if He disposes of them there will be no overlapping.

Ques. How do we bring them? Is it assemblies that bring them, or those who are exercised?

J.T. We all should be concerned, and so we shall pray individually and collectively.

E.B.McC. Do you think the prayer that the Lord may send forth labourers into the harvest always holds good?

J.T. I am sure it does; and I think the Lord would impress it upon us now. The need is great.

R.J.W. Is it not interesting that in the next chapter He sends out the very ones whose hearts He set in the line of prayer? He works through their hearts.

J.T. You see Saul; he corresponds with chapter 3, as we had it this morning, as becoming identified with the people of God; he is praying. But then, as with the disciples in Damascus, he begins to preach. There is nothing about a commission as yet. I mean, there is nothing said as to his being told to preach in Damascus, but he did preach. In this way he corresponds to chapter 5. He sees the need, and, as he tells us later, he went into Arabia. Arabia would correspond with the desert in Luke 5. The desert was the place for the practical annulment of the flesh in him. We find he is sought out by Barnabas, who saw the need. He was a good man, and full of the Holy Spirit. He represents one who would unjealously think of the needs of the saints, and that they should be met by others as well as by himself. So, knowing of the conditions at Antioch, he goes and seeks out Saul. Doubtless he had prayed about it; he brings him to Antioch, as if he felt that he was a brother who would be used at Antioch. He and Saul laboured together at Antioch for a year, and yet there is no

commission. Barnabas sees the need, and he gets Saul. Then the call comes: "Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them", Acts 13:2. I believe that as we look around and see the ability there is, and bring it to the Lord, we shall have a disposition of it such as will be effective in the maintenance of the ministry and in meeting the need of the saints.

Ques. Do you make a difference between the call of the servants and sending them forth by the Spirit as in Acts 13?

J.T. Yes. The call in the apostle's case was earlier; he had to wait for his direct commission.

E.B.McC. Your thought is that Barnabas recognises the ability that was with Saul -- that he had been prepared for the service?

J.T. I think he corresponds with the man whose right hand is healed. Now he is available for the disposition of the Lord or of the Spirit.

Ques. Do you think the synagogue is purely local, whereas the Lord has the world before Him? Saul preached in the synagogues.

J.T. That is good, because levitical service is never restricted to a locality. The Levites were round about the tabernacle. The other tribes had special locations allotted to them at a distance -- east, west, north and south, but the Levites were round about the tabernacle. Their service is general -- it is universal.

J.R. Do you suggest that the multitude come into blessing on account of the Lord spending all night in prayer, and afterwards calling to Himself His disciples whom He names apostles?

J.T. Quite. You see, He calls them out according to the wisdom that would flow from prayer. Of course He was Himself Wisdom, but here He is dependent, and He is a pattern. He is praying to God all night, and so He names them, as it says,

"When it was day he called his disciples, and having chosen out twelve from them, whom also he named apostles". He names them in the order in which He intended them to serve. Peter comes first; that is a question of choice.

L.D.B. If things are held by one person only -- one servant -- they remain within restricted limits, whereas the number is increased here to twelve -- the sphere of divine operations is extended.

J.T. That is what comes out. Then He comes down with them. It says, "having descended with them, He stood on a level place". Now He has, so to say, twelve right hands under His own direction, and then He comes down with them to the level place. They are safe, as coming down to the level place as appointed, and thus accompanied by the Lord.

J.C.S. So you think the Lord indicates here, in the order of the names, that He is arranging their service. They are to serve in that connection; that is, it is not left for them to arrange for themselves.

J.T. I think He has indicated their work in the order of the names. In Luke it appears the reading should be as it is in the Authorised Version, the conjunction between each name. They are not set out in twos, as in Matthew.

L.D.B. What is the thought in that, that they are severally mentioned?

J.T. I think it is that each one is to take up his own service in relation to the Lord.

E.B.McC. These were men of ability for service.

J.T. Quite. Luke has in mind the whole dispensation under Paul's ministry, and the suggestion is that those who serve are selected severally. I receive my work from the Lord directly, and carry it out without consulting another. Of course we are not to be independent of each other.

J.C.S. That is, to your own master you stand or fall; that is the principle.

J.T. Yes.

M.P.M. Service is thus individual, but not independent.

J.T. No, not independent; but each has to get his direction from the Lord, and carry it out.

J.C.S. So that the Lord did not allow Peter to interfere with what John was doing, as you pointed out.

J.T. That helps. "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me". John 21:22: Peter had his work laid out for him, and it was for him to do it. The Lord had His reserve in John, and He would maintain the secret.

L.D.B. I suppose our prayers should be in accord with what the Lord has done. In praying for the Lord's servants one would pray that what He has given to His servants might be developed; that each might correspond with the name that has been given to him.

J.C.S. I suppose there was development in the twelve. The Lord names each one, as you have remarked elsewhere, but development has taken place morally before it is officially recognised.

J.T. Yes; the withered hand restored points to the ability for service which they had.

J.C.S. I think you wanted to call our attention to the fact that it is open to us individually to take these matters up with God in prayer so that the whole field of His operations might be of interest to us, that we might pray to the Lord for an increase on these lines.

J.T. That is what comes out in this chapter, and it should enter into our prayer meetings as well as our individual prayers, because the field is one. In moving about one hears prayers, and one notices the limitations that appear. How narrow our field often is! Of course it is right that we should pray for our immediate locality, but a priest has all on his heart.

The High Priest had the names of all, and Aaron's sons would obviously have the opportunity of reading the breastplate as they were with their father. So the nearer we are to the Lord the wider will be our view of the field. He would bring the whole field before us. One would be as much concerned about South Africa as he would be about New Zealand, because it is all the Lord's field. The saints are all alike in that they are all in the breastplate, and every son of Aaron would be concerned as to all the tribes. It is very interesting to see that in the book of Judges, in the darkest period, when Benjamin was about to be almost wiped out, it is said that Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, was priest, and stood before the ark in those days. What an immense advantage it was for Israel to have a priest like that. At that time, in the darkest day, he would be greatly concerned about Benjamin, for his name was in the breastplate. It had its place as much as Reuben's or Ephraim's. So that the more we understand priesthood the more we should be in prayer for the whole field of the Lord's interest.

S.F. As you have remarked, through the death of Christ He has made a right-of-way into every part. So that where there is just a little garden, or cluster of saints, that locality is of personal interest to Christ.

J.T. That is what I was thinking; and how easily one may be of service. After the assemblies had been formed, Paul proposed to Barnabas to visit the cities where they had preached the word to see the brethren -- to see how they had got on. He and Silas went and visited their brethren, but there is nothing said about teaching or preaching; there is nothing said about the exercise of gift at all in that journey. It was a question of seeing their countenances. "Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend". Proverbs 27:17. Hence the visit of a spiritual brother or sister to a locality has an effect,

and the service is brought within the range of all. There is not a word said of the exercise of gift in the missionary journey of Paul with Silas until new ground was reached at Philippi. It was more that Paul's presence amongst them encouraged them. It says, "The assemblies, therefore, were confirmed in the faith, and increased in number every day", Acts 16:5.

S.F. When the Lord Jesus moved in and out among His disciples He would leave a deep impression on them, even apart from His words.

Ques. You drew our attention to verse 17 (Luke 6): "Having descended with them, he stood on a level place". Could you help us a little on that?

J.T. The "level place" means that in carrying the glad tidings to men you would get down to where they are. Paul says, "To all I have become all things". 1 Corinthians 9:22. In order to reach souls we have to get to where they are.

E.B.McC. Giving the apostles names was His sovereign choice, but now He could come down with them to the level where men are.

J. T. And He can identify Himself with them now before men. They are His qualified representatives.

J.C.S. Do you think He is, in principle, doing now to them what heaven had recently done in regard to Himself?

J.T. Just so; and it raises the question whether the Lord can really be with me in my service here. "He came down with them". Can the Lord stand beside me in my service? If He cannot, there is something that is inconsistent with Him.

E.B.McC. It takes some of us so long to be healed. We are not qualified for service.

J.T. And many of us are mixed up with associations the Lord cannot approve of; thus He cannot be with us; He cannot identify Himself with us save

as we are in correspondence with Him in our principles and ways.

J.R.F. Before entering on the level place with Him we must be on the mountain with Him, and then we can maintain what is suitable to the levitical position on the level place.

J.T. So coming down is the idea in the gospel.

J.R. In connection with your thought about where men are -- do not the multitude come under His influence?

J.T. Quite. You see how it was carried out in Paul, in coming into Antioch of Pisidia, for example. He entered into the synagogue and sat down. He was, as it were, a Jew in the synagogue, but Christ was in his heart. Think of what was in that man's heart as he sat there, ostensibly an ordinary Jew! Presently they invite him to speak. He acts wisely. He, as it were, was on the plain; and now he is invited to speak, and he speaks the word. When he came to Thessalonica, he entered in among them as if he were one of them, and for three Sabbath days he reasoned with them out of the Scriptures. We learn from these things how to carry on service for the Lord.

R. T. What was your thought in Paul and Silas visiting the saints; was it on the line of house to house?

J.T. No doubt they would go from house to house. They visited the cities where assemblies had been formed.

J.C.S. Paul knew well how to take these things up. No matter what the circumstances were, he knew how to adapt himself to them in divine power.

J.T. So at Athens he goes about the city and takes note of things, and he saw their shrines. In order to serve God among men we have to take account of what is going on amongst them. His spirit was painfully excited in him in seeing how the city was

wholly given up to idolatry. He read the inscriptions on the altars, and so forth. He said, "I found also an altar on which was inscribed, To the unknown God", Acts 17:23. There is instruction for us in seeking to serve men. We have to take account of what they are going on with, because in that way you learn what they need, and how they are to be delivered. He identifies himself with them as a man; to the Jews he became a Jew, and to the Greeks he was a man, or one of the race. So he says, "In him we live, and move, and have our being". "He is not far from each one of us". Acts 17:27,28.

Ques. Does the level place suggest that the Jew is now on no better footing than the Gentile?

J.T. No. He was recognised at the outset as the "Jew first", but after the apostle Paul visited Rome I think the position is changed. It says, "The salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and they will hear it". Acts 28:28.

E.B.McC. So we would find much room if we were in the right state to be used.

J.T. The need is unspeakable. The Lord is saying, as it were, 'Whom shall we send?' In answer to this, it is a question of what ability there may be. The Lord will dispose of it if it is available. The idea of a Levite is that he is given to the priests -- to Aaron and his sons -- for service. They are to be for the Lord's disposition.

W.J.P. You do not confine that to ministers, do you?

J.T. No; it is for every saint.

L.D.B. In chapter 9 the Lord inquires, "Who do the crowds say that I am?" This was as He prayed.

J. T. I think that in chapter 9 in connection with the prayer we have just read, we have what follows on constructively with the appointment of the ministers. That is, in serving we need to be assured as to the Person of Christ. We need to be well grounded

in the knowledge of who He is, because the erroneous thoughts that are abroad are dreadful; and, obviously, the Lord praying alone has in view that we should know who He is; not only who He is officially, because that is indicated in chapter 6, but who He is personally.

E.B.McC. If He is with us in the plain we must be assured as to who He is.

J.T. This question that is raised in chapter 9 is of immense importance now, because of the wicked doctrines that are promulgated in Christendom about the Lord Jesus. If we would serve aright we must be very clear in our souls who He is; and I think His praying alone would be in view of this.

J.C.S. What do you mean by 'knowing Him personally'?

J.T. It says here, "And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him; and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am? They answering said, John the baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again. He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God" (verses 18 - 20). He had the light.

Ques. Is that light got from personal intercourse with the Lord?

J.T. I think it is. In this gospel there is nothing said about a revelation in this connection. I think Peter had discovered it. No doubt it refers to the revelation he had. According to Matthew it is not so presented. There the Father made a revelation to Peter. But here it is as if Peter said, 'You are the anointed vessel for God's service of grace -- the Christ of God'.

J.C.S. Would it be a just inference, since Luke so constantly presents Him to us in that praying attitude, that Peter picks up who He is largely through His prayers; that as He is alone praying he gets to

know who He is personally through seeing His intercourse with God?

J.T. Well, I think that is a just inference.

D.B. It was not information about facts with Peter; it was personal acquaintance with Him.

J. T. The evidence that He was the Anointed of God was there. Things were done according to God. Peter says to Cornelius, that God "anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power". Acts 10:38.

M.P.M. It says later, "As he prayed, the fashion of his countenance became different". Luke 29:9. The disciples would take account of that.

J.C.S. I notice, too, in Luke, where the sower operates, the "seed" is the word of God.

J.T. Yes, Luke presents God -- God in grace; and God has now One who is anointed to set out His grace. That is what Peter says. In Mark it is "The Christ" -- the One who does everything; but here it is "The Christ of God". That God has One who does everything, and does it according to His mind.

W.J.P. In John 6:68 Peter says, "Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life".

J.T. His confession is in keeping with John's gospel. He had "words of eternal life". It is not that He had simply spoken them, but He had them; and He was the Holy One of God. Here He is "the Christ of God".

S.F. He was a man here in ordinary daily circumstances, moving absolutely for God's pleasure. All His consideration was that way, and through doing so He met perfectly whatever came before Him. Would you agree with that?

J.T. Just so; and now the apostles are to know this. He would bring out from them the confession of who He was.

Rem. It says they were with Him as He was "praying alone". In chapter 6 He descended with them to the level place.

J.T. They are with Him; seeing Him "praying alone" would give them an apprehension of what He was with God. John says, "We have contemplated His glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a Father". John 1:14. They would see that; they contemplated Him. In Luke He is with the servants, who had been serving very successfully, and in successful service we are apt to get our eyes turned on ourselves; hence this question, "Whom say ye that I am?" If He is the One who is doing everything for God, the little I am doing is not of much account. I am just a vessel or instrument for His use.

A.H.R. So we get here God's Anointed.

J.T. Yes; and the servants, however successful, are to have this before them. He is doing the work.

J.C.S. So that the next time they stretched forth the right hand in service they would be in the sense of who He is.

J.T. That is just the point. They had been successful; but now they were to understand that the work was really His work -- it was He who was doing it.

J.C.S. Sometimes we are hindered by allowing our service to assume too great proportions in our minds. It becomes everything to us, and we really lose sight of the fact that it is Christ who should be everything to us.

J.T. That is the thing to get hold of.

D.B. Would ability to feed the crowd indicate who He was?

J.T. I think so. Peter had doubtless acquired the knowledge of who He was through observing what He was doing.

W.J.P. You remarked that it was necessary to have an impression at the prayer meeting before you preached the gospel. Is this the way to acquire confidence as to addressing God?

J.T. No one should attempt to address men who

has not first addressed God, because you acquire your power there.

A.H.R. With regard to the servants, are there not two sides -- one being occupied with service, and the other being timid owing to lack of faith, and thus not being able to take up service?

J.T. That was the case with Timothy. He was timid. He had to rekindle the gift that was in him. Many have ability, and are not using it.

F.H. The thing to recognise is that the Lord has a claim upon us. In restoring the man's hand the Lord was establishing His claim for the service of that hand. He that has power to restore the hand has power to direct it in service.

J.T. And then in the service there is sure to be success if the Lord is supporting you; but the danger in successful service is to be so occupied as to accredit yourself with it. Paul speaks of the things that Christ had wrought by him. What he had done was Christ's work. He says, "From Jerusalem, and in a circuit round to Illyricum, I have fully preached the glad tidings of the Christ", Romans 15:19. Who had preached? It was Christ; as he says, "Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me". 2 Corinthians 13:3. It was Christ, and that is what makes ministry so serious. If it is taken up as presented in Scripture the minister represents Christ. Paul further says, "Coming, he has preached the glad tidings of peace to you who were afar off, and the glad tidings of peace to those who were nigh", Ephesians 2:17.

J.C.S. One's service would be on the line of distinguishing Christ; it would be as of one anointed.

Rem. So it is easy to detect true ministry; it calls attention to Him.

J.T. It does. The hearers are impressed; it has come from God.

R.J.W. In chapter 9, when He handed back the child, they wondered at the glorious greatness of

God, and in the case of the demoniac, they confessed how great things God had done.

J.T. We can see how the Lord "praying alone" impressed those with Him. Peter confessed Him "The Christ of God".

L.D.B. The praying would emphasise that He -- the Anointed One -- was drawing upon God.

Ques. Would "The Christ of God" indicate the dignity of the service?

J.T. I think it does. Think of what we are connected with, even at this present time! It is the work of the Lord. The Christ of God is carrying it on; He is doing it. We are all more or less instrumental, but it is His doing; and anyone who receives benefit receives it from the Christ of God. God is the Source of all blessings, and Christ is Mediator; but He is the Anointed Mediator, and all blessing comes to us in that way.

J.C.S. If we see that the Lord is really behind the servants, and He is working through them, it takes away any feeling of rivalry.

J.T. It conveys the sense of dignity. We are dealing with very great things. However restricted outwardly, it is no less than the work of the Christ. The anointing is on it, and the anointing involves moral weight and distinction.

E.B.McC. It would imply assembly formation, and headship would be known.

ADJUSTMENT

Proverbs 25:1 - 13

I have in view on this occasion to speak a word in relation to adjustment. I have selected a passage from the book of Proverbs because it is intended for adjustment, to the end that there should be vessels of usefulness and of ornamentation. These are two features that mark the house of God. Those who are in it aright are at the same time ornamental and useful. The Son is over the house, as we read in Hebrews, and He is concerned that the house should be in every way according to God. To this end the process of adjustment continues with every one of us. God, having brought in a model in Christ, proposes that each one in the house should be brought into accord with that model; and so the Epistle to the Colossians in large measure corresponds with the book of Proverbs.

One feature in Colossians is adjustment; that is, everything is to be according to Christ. "As therefore ye have received the Christ", it says, "walk in him"; Colossians 2:6 and whatever is not in accord with Christ is to be rejected. That is the principle in Colossians, and we are told in that epistle that the Father "has delivered us from the authority of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love", Colossians 1:13. The book of Proverbs is the book of the Son of the Father's love. It is the book of Solomon's proverbs, and he is the son of David, we are told.

You see, therefore, beloved brethren, that the adjustment is in the hands of One who will deal gently with us -- who will deal in affection with us, and yet with the utmost firmness and precision. For Solomon, who built the house, being imbued with the most extraordinary wisdom known up to that time,

would of necessity act according to that wisdom in all his dealings, and so "the Father ... has translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love". Colossians 1:13. Notice, it is not into the 'house' of the Son of His love, for we cannot be in the house save as we pass through the kingdom. It says, "who has delivered us from the authority of darkness". Colossians 1:13. We need to come under another authority.

What exists abroad in what is called Christendom is the authority of darkness. That is to say, certain doctrines and systems have authority over men's minds and consciences by reason, in some instances, of their antiquity, and in others by reason of human greatness and learning. In every instance it is the authority of darkness. Men are held in it with a good conscience, for the reason that their consciences are darkened, and darkness has authority over them. Many of the Lord's dear people are held in that darkness, and what God is doing at the present time is delivering souls from the authority of darkness.

Mark that word 'authority', as it should be rendered. From whatever cause -- what power such a doctrine or system has over my conscience, and the more restful I am in it, the worse it is. Hence God moves -- the Father moves -- to deliver souls from the authority of darkness, and to translate us "into the kingdom of the Son of his love". Colossians 1:13. Think of the difference, beloved, between the authority of darkness and the authority of the Son of the Father's love. Those of us who have come under the latter know the blessedness of it, that while the Lord is firm in His dealings with us, they are all the dealings of love -- they are the dealings of love combined with infinite wisdom. So that it is an immense thing for everyone, especially the young ones, to know that they are placed by the Father under the authority of the Son, for it is His kingdom.

Well now, as I said, Solomon is a type of Christ

as the Son of the Father's love. He is the most interesting babe in the Old Testament. His history is given to us from the very outset, so that we might have a full view of Christ, in type, as the Son of the Father's love. I do not know an expression that is, in a way, more interesting than that -- "the Son of the Father's love". John says, "We have contemplated his glory". "The Word", he says, "became flesh and dwelt among us". John 1:14. One thinks with pleasure of the Lord, "The Word" as become flesh, moving about among men here upon earth. It is not that He visited among us, but He dwelt among us. He came within the range of men in that way -- into their houses, mingled in their families, dwelt as a neighbour, so that He might become known to men. Hence John says, "We have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father", John 1:14. It is not the Father there. It is an only one with a father; a figure that is intelligible to everyone on the earth, as one may say, for who is it who has not some idea of an only one with his father?

John contemplated the Lord Jesus as dwelling amongst men as an only one with a father. Who can undertake to define the details on which that statement was based? But He was known to the apostles, beloved, in that way. He was known as an only one with a father. So in chapter 1 of Hebrews, where the glory of Christ is unfolded before us so that He might become the supreme object of our hearts, we are told that God said, "I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son", Hebrews 1:5. This is a quotation, as I understand, from 2 Samuel 7:14, enforced as it is in Psalm 89, showing that Solomon is to be taken as a type of the Lord Jesus as the Son of the Father's love. Throughout the book of Proverbs we have the rule of the Son of the Father's love.

As I said, Solomon is the most interesting babe in

the Old Testament. I do not wish to eclipse others, such as Isaac, but what you find is that when Solomon was born he received a name prophetically from Jehovah. He had the names of Solomon and Jedidiah at the same time. God Himself loved him, and he is nurtured in the light of what he was to Jehovah both by David and Bathsheba his mother. He was his father's son; as he says, "I was a son unto my father" Proverbs 4:3 -- that is a word for young believers. It is not simply that he was David's son, but he was a son unto him, which is a different idea. In contra-distinction to Absalom and others he grew up in his father's affections and his mother's affections. As he says, "Tender and an only one in the sight of my mother". Proverbs 4:3. So he is nurtured in tenderest affections in his father's house, and is qualified to address himself to all those that are transferred from the authority of darkness into the kingdom. Hence this book of the Proverbs.

Now, having said all this to make the situation clear, I want to come to my subject, and that is -- adjustment. I use this word because it is a very forceful one -- an expressive one -- as applicable to every believer. I suppose there is not a believer in the whole world who does not even now need adjustment, and we need it in order that we should be on the one hand ornamental, and on the other useful. The word comes to us thus severally as to how much we ornament the house of God, and how far we are useful in it. For the idea of a vessel, as we get it here, is that it is to be useful, and we all know how vessels may be ornamental at the same time as being useful, and that is the divine intent.

The idea is that there should be a vessel for the refiner, and one covets the thought of it. The word is applied peculiarly to Paul. I think he stands out, after Christ, as the ideal of heaven as a vessel. The Lord said of him, "He is an elect vessel unto me". Acts 9:15. What an immense thing that was! And then He

appointed him as a minister and a witness. I want you to note for a moment, beloved, the great thought the Lord had in that vessel. He appointed him a minister; that is, an official servant; not a slave, but one set up in dignity in service. And then He said further, "and a witness"; the two things go together. The idea of a witness is martyrdom, but service is carried out in authority. He is a vessel to be employed as a servant and a witness.

So that I take it the apostle Paul is our model after Christ. He was called from heaven; the light shone round about him from heaven; he received his commission from heaven; and he said, "I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision". Acts 26:19. He is here now in entire subjection to Christ, and in entire availability to Christ. He is for use -- he is "sanctified, and meet for the Master's use", 2 Timothy 2:21. Think, dear brethren, of what the Lord had in that vessel. One never tires of referring to Paul as a model in that way. Well now, this chapter, as you will observe, was transcribed by the men of Hezekiah. It begins the third division of the book of Proverbs, and incidentally calls attention to the great gain of research -- of diligence. These Proverbs had continued to exist in Israel for many years, and apparently no one obtained any good from them until the days of Hezekiah. I mention that because of the great importance of research -- of inquiry. The Lord says, "Search the Scriptures". John 5:39. We cannot do without that. Every line of Scripture was inspired of God, and is profitable -- every Scripture; so that we cannot do without the Scriptures. It is not enough to know the Bible in all the versions; we have to "search the Scriptures". John 5:39.

It says, "the men of Hezekiah". That idea, I take it, corresponds with Solomon's times. "Happy are thy men", 1 Kings 10:8, 2 Chronicles 9:7 the queen of Sheba said; and Hezekiah has men. It is a great thing to get hold of the idea

of men. The epistle to the Corinthians is mainly to bring that about in the Corinthians. They were babes. He said he could not write unto them as unto perfect. He could speak among the perfect the hidden wisdom that God had before the world prepared for those that love Him. Babes, on account of their state, shut themselves off from the precious hidden wisdom of God. But Hezekiah has his men, and they transcribed the Proverbs that are recorded in this chapter. What a find it was in those days! for Hezekiah's days, as our own, were days in which adjustment was needed.

This chapter opens up with the idea that God hides. "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing" -- a very remarkable fact to stand out. If it is the glory of God to hide a thing, then we may be sure there are things hidden which have to be sought out. For God, in the exigencies of His nature, values the things that He has; and He conceals them in order to disclose them to those who love Him. "God has revealed them unto us". "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him", 1 Corinthians 2:9. Hence He conceals things. I mention this because it stands out in the forefront of this great principle of adjustment that there are things that God hides.

Then it says, "The honour of kings is to search out a matter". That is, what God, in the exigencies of His nature, may hide, Christ searches out officially. We have to take in the idea of His mediatorship, and one feature is that He searches out things for us. Solomon himself represents the principle of a king searching out; he had right-of-way everywhere. If Solomon needed to investigate anything in Beersheba he could do so; he was king. If he needed to investigate in Dan he could do so. The king has right-of-way. Thus the Lord Jesus, having gone on

high, is in a position to search out everything officially, and He does so in the gift of the Spirit. We have here the power of search: "The Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God", 1 Corinthians 2:10. Think of what is within our range, dear brethren, on the principle of inquiry! As the men of Hezekiah transcribed these neglected Proverbs, so the inquiring believer, as having the Spirit, may reach the depths of God.

Then the next great principle that confronts us here is that of height. It says, "The heavens for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings is unsearchable". You see, adjustment is not local merely; if I am to be adjusted I am standing in relation to the highest heights and the deepest depths. Think of the vastness of the divine thought, beloved! We are told that "He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens", Ephesians 4:10. How far who can tell? But I am to be adjusted in relation to Christ in that position.

Then it says, "The earth for depth". You might inquire, 'Is that the crust of the earth?' as geologists say. Which of the strata does that refer to? It refers to them all, and more. We are told that the Lord Jesus was three days and three nights -- not in the crust of the earth -- but in the heart of the earth. He could not go lower than that. "The earth for depth;" you say, 'Are you speaking geologically?' No, I am speaking spiritually. The Lord Jesus Christ went down -- He went down in love. As the thought of His descent enters into my soul it prepares me for the wonderful adjustment which God proposes. He lay three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. He went to the very lowest possible point in His love. Ephesians contemplates that, through ministry, we are to be brought "to know the breadth and length and depth and height". Ephesians 3:18. Think of the depth!

I would urge everyone here to look at this -- that

your precious Saviour lay three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Would you not like to see where He lay? The angel said, "Come, see the place where the Lord lay", Matthew 28:6. We have to take account of it spiritually. He went down to the lowest possible depth, and we are to know it. So we have "the heavens for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings is unsearchable"; as one may say, "The love of Christ which passeth knowledge". Ephesians 3:19.

The next thing, dear brethren, is, "Take away the dross from the silver". That is a process that we have to submit to. Young people especially are very slow to admit the presence of the dross, but it is there, and in a large measure. The silver is there, too, thank God. It is there in everyone that is "born again"; but the dross has to go. It may be an irksome experience, but the Lord loves us too well to allow that to stay. As you see it go, you see the wisdom of His love. He seeks to have a vessel, and so the dross has to be removed.

Then it says, "Take away the wicked". There are those who allow the wicked in their communion. You cannot have anything suitable unless there is the principle of taking away the wicked. The fellowship of God's people repels the wicked. "Remove the wicked person from amongst yourselves", 1 Corinthians 5:13. It is obligatory on every company of Christians in the world to remove wickedness. It has to be dealt with authoritatively. It is a question of the king's authority, otherwise there is not establishment. Things were tottering at Corinth because the wicked was allowed. He had to be removed, and he was removed, thank God. Then the door was open for God to come in and open up His heart to them, as we see in the second letter to the saints there. It was only a little while ago that, on the ship on which I was sailing, there was celebrated what is known as Holy Communion at seven o'clock in the morning, and

it was open to all. Think of that! Think of throwing open to all the precious symbols of the body of Christ and the blood of Christ! How can His throne be established when wicked persons are allowed to sit down and partake of the emblems?

Then it goes on to speak of our relations one with another. It says in verse 6, "Put not forth thyself in the presence of the king, and stand not in the place of great men". That is the next thing. This is a word to young men who would serve the Lord. May He add to their number! As Moses said, "Would God that all the Lord's people were prophets", Numbers 11:29. The need is great, but before we can serve we have to learn to take the low place. "Put not thyself forth in the presence of the king, and stand not in the place of great men". That is a principle of adjustment that every young man aspiring to service should take special notice of, because the Lord is over the house, and your place in it must be determined by Him. True enough that your gift merits room for you; it does, but nevertheless your gift does not determine your place in the house; the Lord determines your place there. The Son is over the house, and He gives you your place. No right-minded person would wish it otherwise; you want everything regulated by the Lord. Hence it goes on to say, "for better it is that it be said unto thee, Come up higher, than that thou shouldest be put lower in the presence of the prince whom thine eyes see". There is a word; wait for that word from the Prince, "Come up higher".

Then, as I said, it goes on to speak of our relations one with another. I must hasten through the following verse, "Go not forth hastily to strive, lest thou know not what to do in the end thereof, when thy neighbour hath put thee to shame". Here we have a word for everyone of us, for the tendency with us is to strive -- to contend for our points and our cause;

and this verse enjoins us to avoid that. You may be put to shame; it may mean your ruin, for your pride may get the better of you and "a brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city", Proverbs 18:19. So that one has to be on his guard amongst his brethren about contending -- about entering into strife. The principle of the house is that it is composed of sons of peace. "Solomon" means 'peace', and so the house is to be marked by that -- by peace.

Then follows, "Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself, and discover not a secret to another". If there is a cause between us, let us debate it in secret. "Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself". What a simple and yet practical and effective principle this is! We have elsewhere, "If thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother". Matthew 18:15. You see how practical all this is, that the saints should be adjusted in relation to the height and the depth, and then in relation to one another. So that you are to debate thy cause with thy neighbour by himself, and as it says, "Discover not a secret to another, lest he that heareth it put thee to shame, and thine infamy turn not away".

Now, dear brethren, I have come to the end of what I call adjustment. We are set in relation with one another in the light and in the presence of supreme height and depth -- the love of Christ in the depth to which He went, and the height to which He has gone. We are in the presence of that wonderful love. We are adjusted in relation to all that; we regard each other in that light, and now we look for ornamentation. It says, "A word fitly spoken". How delightful to heaven it is that a company of God's people should be set down thus adjusted! Then, "a word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver". How delightful to listen to a word like that! The house of God is ornamented by

such words. Scripture abounds with them from the lips of Christ and from the lips of others.

Then the next thing is, "as an earring of gold, and an ornament of fine gold, so is a wise reprover upon an obedient ear". Under these conditions, dear brethren, we are allowed to listen to reproof. "Faithful are the wounds of a friend"; and heaven looks down as a brother seeks to gain his brother by reproof; and as that brother attends in subjection, it is like "an earring of gold". As one bends over humbly and in subjection to hear a wise reproof, it is "an earring of gold, and an ornament of fine gold". A wise man using his lips to convey a wise reproof, and an attentive ear receiving it, is likened to an earring of gold and an ornament of fine gold in that way.

Thus in these simple practical ways, dear brethren, the house of God is ornamented. Then in the next verse, which is the last one I intend to speak on, we have what accrues to God under these circumstances. It says, "As the cold of snow in the time of harvest, so is a faithful messenger to them that send him; for he refresheth the soul of his masters". In these simple ways we have the ornamentation of the house in vessels fitted for it, and then we have refreshment for the blessed God Himself in a messenger. The idea of a divine messenger is of immense importance, for it involves a question of trustworthiness. Is there one that God can entrust a message to? So a faithful messenger is like the cold of snow in harvest; he refreshes the soul of his masters. Notice the "masters". Philip had two. You will remember the angel sent him, and then the Spirit of God sends him. So that the position of a servant is that he has masters, and in faithfulness he is like snow in harvest time; he is refreshing. "He refresheth the soul of his masters".

I suppose the greatest accruement from the gospel address is what goes to God. I don't know how many

preachings -- gospel meetings -- Noah held, or whether he held them at all. I do know he was a preacher, such a preacher that the Spirit of Christ is said to have preached in him. I don't know how many heard him, but I do know that he refreshed God. He had no converts as far as we know. The results of his service were outwardly small, but we may be sure of this, that during the 120 years of his service he refreshed the soul of his Master in his faithfulness.

I say that so that we might not be discouraged in our preachings. The first great principle in a messenger is to be faithful. As Paul says, "I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision". Acts 26:19. He went from Jerusalem round about to Illyricum. He says, "I have fully preached" -- marvellous statement of faithfulness -- "I have fully preached the gospel of Christ". Romans 15:19. How much refreshment there was for God in it! He was a sweet odour of Christ unto God in those who were saved and in those that perished; even in those that perished, for he says, "We are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved and in them that perish", 2 Corinthians 2:15. So that we have every encouragement to go in for adjustment, so as to be vessels for ornament and for use in the house of God.

PRAYER: CHARACTERISTIC OF THE PERFECT MAN (3)

Luke 9:28,29; Luke 11:1 - 13

J.T. We might look at two passages -- one in chapter 9 and the other in chapter 11 of Luke. What has engaged us in our previous readings is that there is a constructive line of instruction in the instances in which the Lord is seen in prayer in this gospel. We have seen how at His baptism He is so engaged, and is approved of heaven, the Father's voice speaking to Him. Then in chapter 5, in the presence of need that had come into evidence from His fame, He retired, and was in desert places praying, so that the power of the Lord was there. The believer, in his progress, corresponds to that; but in seeing the need, his own need being met, turns to God, disallowing the flesh, which the desert places would suggest. Then in chapter 6 the Lord is seen praying for a whole night; not so much because need is immediately before Him, but because He would have workmen; as if to suggest that one cannot do all. So He names His apostles, and comes down to the plain with them to meet the need in the plain.

In chapter 9, after they had been successful in their ministry as sent out, they return. The multitudes have to be fed, and the Lord puts it upon them to feed them. But it comes out that they could not, and this brings in a fresh glory of Christ. He feeds the multitudes. Then He raises the question with them as to who the multitudes said He was; following this with the question, "But whom say ye that I am". Peter says, "The Christ of God". Luke 9:20. In Peter's confession the light is there; the Christ is there; so that the workmen humbly take their places under Him. What is done is done by Him; a very important and salutary lesson, for it keeps us lowly, and saves us from pride.

The next instance is in the passage read in chapter 9, where He is seen on high praying, these three disciples being present; and what comes out is that He becomes altered or different. What suggests itself is that the believer, in his progress, corresponds at this point as apprehending the heavenly -- he is different. His service now is carried on in a different way; he is no longer on the level of ordinary religious activity -- he is different. In other words, as having thus progressed, we are actuated by heavenly principles and manners in our service. I think it well to link it all up, so that we may have the thing clearly before us, and get the teaching of this passage in chapter 11. It is not that we should become Quakers or monks. Christianity involves a difference from all that is of this world: "As is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly" (1 Corinthians 15:48), and this enters into our walk; ways, and service in this world.

A.H.R. Is it on the line of "beholding the glory of the Lord" 2 Corinthians 3:18 you are changed from glory to glory?

J.T. It is that line. So you have here Moses and Elias, who, appearing in glory, speak with Him. It would bear out your thought -- they appear in glory. The heavenly element, entering into our position here, involves a change; in fact Christianity is established on the ground of the light of Ephesians; hence what follows is coloured by what is seen here.

R.J.W. Would there be an indication of what was new and heavenly in the fact that it was eight days after?

J.T. Yes; eight is a change -- a new point of departure.

Ques. Is it necessary to be in an elevated position to take account of it? It is only there it is seen.

J.T. I think so. It is said, "God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us ... hath raised us up together and made us sit together

in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:4 - 6); so that we come out as heavenly.

M.P.M. The difference is seen very markedly in Saul. He was changed from being an insolent, overbearing man, to one who was characterised by prayer.

R.J.W. Do you suggest that as you pray you take on these features?

J.T. Well, I think at this stage of your progress the thought of the heavenly comes in. It is not at the outset, although the light may be there; but the time arrives when you take on the heavenly.

J.C.S. So that when you take on the heavenly it will impart tone and character to all that you are and all you do.

J.T. There are some textures that will not take on certain colours. I think the Christian texture should take on a good blue -- the heavenly colour.

Rem. And your preaching would come out in that way?

J.T. Yes; you begin now to present things differently.

A.H.R. You come to God in prayer, and you obtain the heavenly colour -- the blue, and you come out in it.

J.T. That is what I understand; the texture is prepared for that. The believer's life is like a web of cloth. Principles are laid down. Principles are the warp in the piece; they are laid out the whole length. The weft is woven in bit by bit; it is, as it were, a hand-loom -- the shuttle acts this way and that way constantly. Romans prepares for what is heavenly. Romans lays out the principles, and then you begin to weave in, and gradually you begin to take on the colour -- to take on a good dye; because it has to enter into the whole piece -- the warp and the weft.

J.C.S. So Romans brings in all that establishes one on the line of recovery, but you have not yet

come to the reception of what is Ephesian truth exactly.

J.T. That is it.

Ques. And would Romans bring you to Ephesians?

J.T. It prepares for Ephesians; so the apostle speaks of the mystery which had been hid during the ages. He desires that the Roman Christians should be established according to it.

J.C.S. Do I catch the thought that this heavenly thing that is being introduced is really a process?

J.T. That is what I think. At this point of your progress as a believer you go in for what is heavenly, and that enters into local responsibility. Chapters 10 and 11 deal with the testimony in localities, and that must be heavenly. Local furnishings, which we may see in chapter 11, correspond to heaven. It is a question of the Lord going into the cities and places, and preparation being made for it. He appoints seventy, and sends them out two and two into every city and place whither He Himself would come, so that there should be conditions in each city and place suitable for Him.

Rem. So what you put on can be taken account of.

J.T. Yes; the furnishings are according to heaven..

R.J.W. Is that why Luke emphasises the thought of shining -- what is heavenly is shown?

J.T. So we have two men in shining garments at the end of Luke's gospel. And here His raiment is "white and effulgent".

Rem. Would you say we get it on the line of contemplation?

J.T. I think we do. "We all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image". 2 Corinthians 3:18. The glory of the Lord is involved in the question, "Whom say ye that I am?" Luke 9:20. The knowledge of the Lord leads to the change.

J.C.S. So that the Lord Jesus comes in here again as a pattern. If we think of Him intrinsically, there is no change; but He is there as pattern for us.

J.T. That is what I thought.

L.D.B. Following up the thought of Romans, would Peter and James and John stand for those who have reached this point?

J.T. I think that He selects those who would be, so to speak, capable of taking on the heavenly colour. He knew them, and He intended that they should reflect all they saw. As Peter says, "We have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eye witnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory. This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount", 2 Peter 1:16 - 18. They were with Him so that the effect of the vision should be reflected in them. He knew what they could take on, although apparently they then acted very poorly. Nevertheless the result came out later.

J.C.S. So it was the Lord Jesus who went up to pray. He took them with Him that they might witness all that was transpiring, and take it on.

J.T. Yes, that is it; they came to it afterwards.

S.F. Peter understood it much more later when he wrote his epistle, and refers to it then; but the impression remained with him from this time forward.

J.T. He speaks in his epistles of an unfading inheritance reserved in the heavens for us; and goes on to say that the gospel is preached by the Holy Spirit come down from heaven. Then, in chapter 2, he links it on beautifully with Paul's doctrine governing local assemblies by calling the attention of the Jews of the dispersion to what they were. "To

whom coming", he says, "as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God and precious, ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ", 1 Peter 2:4,5. He was separating them from Jerusalem, and setting them up in a spiritual way in what they were themselves; they were a spiritual house. All that links up with what we may see in Luke 10 and 11. Here local furnishings must take on the heavenly, and be independent of metropolitan centres. Peter's epistle teaches the saints that they are independent of earthly metropolitan centres.

J.C.S. So that the local assembly should be the repository of what is heavenly. Heavenly conditions should be found there, and heavenly furnishings, as you have remarked.

L.D.B. Would you say a little more about Peter's epistle? How does he show that there is nothing metropolitan on earth now for the Lord, and that the heavenly is in view?

J.T. I link it on with his service as recorded in Acts 9. After Paul was converted Peter seemed to discern the new point of departure. It says, "Peter, passing through all quarters", and coming down to Lydda, raised up Aeneas, and says to him, "rise up, and make thy couch for thyself", Acts 9:34. There I think we have a plain intimation that he discerned that God was about to abandon Jerusalem. It took some time to do it, but the principle was laid down in his word to Aeneas that saints in different localities must learn to make their beds for themselves. Then he raises up Tabitha, and presents her alive to the widows and those who were mourning for her. Hence you have one who can make one's bed for oneself; and then, in Tabitha, the energy of life in localities; so that his epistle amplifies these principles. He brings in the heavenly instead of occupying the Jews of the

dispersion with Jerusalem or the earthly promises. He speaks about an inheritance in heaven unfading and undefiled, and says they were begotten again to a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and that they were "kept by the power of God through faith", 1 Peter 1:5. Then he goes on to speak about the Spirit coming down from heaven as the power of ministry. Then he says, "as newborn babes desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby", 1 Peter 2:2. It was a thing to grow up to. That would free them from the system at Jerusalem. Following on this, he says, "To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, ye also, as lively stones are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ", 1 Peter 2:4,5. In all that, it seems to me, he detaches their minds from Jerusalem, where the visible temple was, and corroborates Paul's ministry, which set up local companies officially, and calls them "assemblies of God".

G.R.G. The source of all that light was heaven. Peter was an eye-witness "of his majesty". 2 Peter 1:16.

J.T. All that enters into it. He goes on to say at the end, "She that is elected with you in Babylon salutes you, and Marcus my son", 1 Peter 5:13. He links up, it seems to me, the east (that is Babylon -- the work of God there) with the west, unifying the work of God.

J.C.S. That was only possible by bringing in the heavenly. So long as things were attached to Jerusalem the possibility of break-up was there, but the transfer of the centre to heaven brought about a permanent result.

J.T. The heavenly element now began to assert itself. In Acts 9 a light from heaven came to Paul; and in chapter 10 a sheet from heaven came to Peter. All that enters into Peter's ministry. The metropolis

was transferred to heaven, and it remained in heaven. "Jerusalem above ... is our mother". Galatians 4:26.

G.R.G. Do you think the sovereignty of the Lord comes out in that connection?

J.T. He knew them. Peter and James and John were evidently more spiritual than the others. They were taken into Jairus' house when the little girl was raised up. So I think we are reminded here that we are privileged according to our progress.

R.J.W. Then do you suggest that as we reach a certain point in our soul's history we correspond to this?

J.T. That is what I was endeavouring to emphasise. At this point you begin to take on the heavenly; you want the heavenly because it is better.

R.J.W. There was a great change in Job after he judged himself.

J.T. Quite. All this is instruction, involving a change in us. The heavenly colour enters in, I think, to the teaching of chapters 10 and 11. That is the idea of a place suitable for the Lord in the end of chapter 9. It says, "It came to pass, when the days of his receiving up were fulfilled", Luke 9:51. The time was arriving when He would be received up into heaven, where everything is in keeping with Him. But in the meantime He was going to visit cities and places, hence He sends messengers before Him, as it were, to prepare. So that in praying in a certain place He had in mind that that place should be furnished. It refers obviously to the need of furnishing in it, because He had been to Bethany, to the house of Martha, and, although He was received, the furnishings were not just right. Martha did not reflect just what was heavenly; things were not altogether right there. Hence one would look around in one's locality and see how much the conditions correspond to heaven, because the Lord is heavenly. He is in heavenly

surroundings, and is entitled to something like heavenly surroundings on earth as He comes.

J.C.S. So that when He comes the surroundings would be agreeable to Him. There would be no discomfort, so to speak; all would be according to Him.

A.H.R. If we got hold of that it would be an immense thing for our spirits, would it not?

J.T. Surely. In the beginning of chapter 10 it says, He chose seventy, and sent them "two and two before his face into every city and place where he himself was about to come" (verse 1). That has a meaning beyond what is literal; it has a meaning for us. If one goes as a representative into a locality, the Lord follows him up; and it is a question of what He finds. Take Luther's ministry -- wonderful energy of the Spirit, but the Lord would follow that up. What did He find? What was the result of that movement ecclesiastically for the Lord? There were not assembly conditions as far as we know. So with everyone who represents the Lord in ministry; the Lord follows you up, and what does He find as the result of your ministry?

R.J.W. Do you think then the objective is the assembly? Your works are not complete until that objective is reached and the furnishing brought in.

J.T. That is what I think is found in service -- "I have not found thy works perfect before God", Revelation 3:2. There were works and conversions and much done in Sardis, but the work was not complete. There were no furnishings locally for the Lord. Take the Lutheran church of Germany, and the churches of England and Scotland, and then the establishment in Switzerland and France, and the later off-shoots in English-speaking countries; what do they afford for the Lord?

G.R.G. Do you think it is suggested that the messengers were not successful in these villages?

J.T. You see that in a city of the Samaritans. It was not to the discredit of the messengers, because a national feeling was there of rivalry between Samaria and Jerusalem, and there was no reception of the Lord at all.

Rem. Does anything take place before they go out two by two? The Holy Spirit goes before them, as it were.

J.T. We get the Holy Spirit in chapter 11. It is another consideration, because the Holy Spirit is the solution of all this. The Holy Spirit is really the means whereby local conditions are brought about that are acceptable to heaven. You cannot have it without the Spirit. Hence He says, "Much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him", Luke 11:13. That is the solution, but I don't think any of these systems which I referred to have made room for the Spirit; hence the assembly is lost to view, and there are no suitable local furnishings.

E.B.McC. You might point out what you mean by furnishings.

J.T. It means that I have a peep into heaven, and get to know something about what the living conditions of the Lord are. To use a figure: I have some idea of Buckingham Palace; anyone of us who has been to London knows that is where the king lives with his family. Now, the living conditions in the house of the king's representative in this Dominion would, be, in some sense, a reflex of that. If the king were to come to Wellington he would go there, because that is the idea; it is a reflex of his own living conditions. Paul's ministry enables us to understand what is heavenly, and local conditions must correspond in some sense to what is in heaven.

E.B.McC. Then it must be borne in mind that we are heavenly?

J.T. Yes, indeed. "As is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly", 1 Corinthians 15:48. I think the Lord, as He prayed in a certain place, had in mind that there should be others in that place suitable. Hence the disciples say to Him, "Teach us to pray". This is the first time we get that. It does not say, 'Teach me to pray'. We have been on the line of the individual; now we come to the collective. It is the question of the saints in a locality learning how to pray there.

J.C.S. So that Buckingham Palace would really be the model for the Government House here. We become, in that way, acquainted with what is in heaven and what is heavenly; the local assembly is patterned after that.

J.T. That is what I had in mind. Now you have the added thought here of place -- He was praying in a certain place. He had already said they were to go before His face into every place whither He Himself would come. Martha received Him to her house, but she was not heavenly. There are many of us perhaps who are not heavenly, and we are ready to receive the Lord only on our own terms, so to speak. It is one thing to go into a man's house on his own terms, but another thing for him to receive you on your terms; in the latter you are much freer and happier. Now Martha did not receive the Lord on His own terms. I doubt whether she knew Him rightly. She would have Him bring Mary into accord with her. There was no question of Mary being suitable to the Lord. In other words, it is like a brother in the meeting wishing the whole meeting to be brought into accord with him, which is often the case.

J.C.S. In Martha's house the Lord found something that was really foreign to heaven.

J.T. I can understand the Lord turning aside into one of the rooms and praying for that place.

That seems the only solution of it -- praying for Martha because the conditions are not right. It does not say so here, but it is the thing carried forward. He was praying in a certain place. He had just been to Bethany.

W.J.P. Would you say there were mixed conditions?

J.T. Martha received Him into her house; she was the responsible one, but Mary was of a very different spiritual calibre. It is a very good type of a meeting; a very good example perhaps of all our meetings.

R.J.W. Would the result be seen a little later in the place where there was a large upper room furnished?

J.T. You get that further on. It is a question of the furnishing here. So there is the praying in a certain place, it may be in Wellington or any place. If things are not right that is the way to deal with the matter.

S.F. In a way, Martha was holding the reins. Mary's submission suggests she had surrendered everything to Him.

J.C.S. So you would impress us with the necessity of being acquainted with what is in heaven, that in our localities we might place ourselves in relation to it.

J.T. That is the thought. I think Luke has, in the main, public conditions in view, conditions in keeping with heaven, because that is what was to mark the assembly.

A.H.R. Do you think the heavenly conditions mentioned were brought about in the house when Lazarus was raised? All were in their places then.

J. T. The Lord came in there and manifested His glory; the result in Bethany is seen in John 12. But He wants to show from this occurrence here that the solution of this is by the Spirit.

Rem. What comes out of heaven goes back there.

J.T. Yes, the Spirit has come out of heaven; that is what you get in verse 13: "How much rather shall the Father who is of heaven". It is not in heaven. It is not going to heaven, but bringing heavenly conditions down. "Who is of heaven, give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him". There it is the plural -- not 'him', but "them". I think it is collective.

Ques. So heavenly conditions furnish the house for the Lord's presence?

J.T. That is the thing. It is not that He will not come without them, because He came into Martha's house, and there was nothing much about her then that was heavenly; but you want Him to come and find conditions entirely congenial to Him. He may come, it may be in a judicial character, and then He has to rebuke us, taking a judge's character towards us.

J.C.S. I take it that what you have been drawing our attention to is in order that these conditions might be planted in the hearts of the brethren in the various localities, so that the Lord is really at home amongst them.

J.T. That is it. He is praying in the place; He gives the lead, as it were, and the disciples were glad to take advantage of it; so one said, "Teach us to pray". Then the Lord immediately says, "When ye pray, say, Father". It is not, 'our Father in heaven'; that is not Luke's line. He wants to set us up in liberty. When you pray say, "Father, thy name be hallowed". You want conditions suitable to that name: "thy name be hallowed". "Thy kingdom come". These are the features of prayer that He teaches us in this passage.

S.F. "Father" conveys what is general. As you have remarked, it is "Father". Sometimes it is "our Father".

J.T. In this passage I think it is the liberty we have with God. The Lord sets us up in liberty with God, so we can address Him as Father. It is very precious in our locality that we can address God as Father. Then we are concerned as we take that name on our lips. It should be as hallowed; there should be no uncleanness, or unholiness, or unrighteousness connected with it. Then, "thy kingdom come", meaning that we are not trusting in human power. At the Reformation they called in the civil powers to support them. Protestantism, as its name indicates, is really a protest against Romish encroachment, where the kingdom of God was set aside. Rome was guilty of that. This prayer brings in the power of God; you can rely on that. I mean that power is involved in the thought of God's kingdom.

E.B.McC. Is that connected with the mount where He was praying?

J.T. That was the kingdom in power.

J.C.S. So where the furnishings are right there would be no room made for any other kind of power in the assembly.

J.T. That is what the kingdom means: The kingdom is really the bulwark for us. You can count on God, and go on. You would not call in the powers that be. That is where I think the Reformation failed. There was an ignoring of the power of God in the kingdom, which would have supported them; and if that had been recognised I believe they would have gone on to the assembly. It brings about a sphere in which you are protected. Then it says further, "Give us our needed bread for each day;" In this -- that is godliness -- we bring God into our daily circumstances. This saves us from aspiring to be rich. Paul says, some, having the love of money, "pierced themselves through with many sorrows", 1 Timothy 6:10. This part of the prayer would save us from aspiring to be rich: "Give us this day our

needed bread;" Then it says, "Remit us our sins, for we also remit to everyone that is indebted to us".

There I think we come down to the brethren. In our relations with one another the attitude is remission; we are not seeking self-vindication or giving offence to the brethren, Your heart is forgiving. You expect divine forgiveness only in the measure in which you forgive; that is the way in which you have forgiveness. The next thing is, "Lead us not into temptation", a great word for the young people, because in every town and village, as well as in the cities, there are tempting things -- picture shows, theatres, dancing, and other things that are seductive. It is a very wholesome prayer, it seems to me, for the saints in every locality if we are to be preserved and furnished so that we are not led into temptation. I believe every one of us here, in reverting to his past experience, will remember how God graciously protected us from things that would have ruined us. I think the formula here is, in its elements, the groundwork of conditions that the Lord can approve of. He then proceeds to a parable; in which He opens up the great gain of prayer -- what you may get through it -- namely, the Holy Spirit.

J.C.S. The Holy Spirit, in this light, comes in answer to prayer. That is how Luke presents the Spirit. I was thinking how it further supports the thought that Luke seems to connect everything with prayer -- the great means whereby these things reach us.

R.McM. One who gets the Spirit in this way would use the Spirit; it is subject to desire.

J.T. I think this prayer makes room for the Spirit. If it is honestly uttered there is room for the Spirit to come in.

Ques. And would there be something for the Lord?

J.T. That is the thing. If you make room for the

Spirit He will make room for the Lord. He is here on account of the Lord, and if there is liberty He will make room for Him.

G.R.G. Is this the Spirit in the house -- a collective thought?

J.T. Yes, it is; it is to them that ask Him.

J.C.S. And the Father, who is of heaven, is He who gives the Spirit. Is that the connection in which the Spirit is given?

J.T. I think so. It is in order that there should be heavenly conditions on earth, that is the point: "The Father who is of heaven", Luke 11:13. It is the character.

Ques. Would you say that the Spirit never forces Himself?

J.T. He does not; and you have the words, 'grieve' and 'quench'. Of course, wherever Christ is dishonoured He resists, for He cannot bear dishonour to Christ, or any unrighteousness.

J.C.S. Is this like the dove coming down?

J.T. That is it exactly. The dove is a very sensitive creature; I think she is a sample of that. She found no rest for the sole of her foot. She is not like the raven. The dove is discriminating, it seems.

J.C.S. I think that is very suggestive, and seems to give a beautiful climax to what we have been considering. Not only are there conditions now for the Lord Jesus to come to, but the Holy Spirit can come; there is nothing to disturb Him now.

R.J.W. The dove seems to suggest affections -- affections that belong to the assembly.

J.T. It says of the dove, she returned to Noah into the ark; meaning that, typically, there was a link of affection there.

R.T. What is your thought in connection with the Spirit being mentioned only once in Colossians 1 Is it that the greatness and glories of Christ come before us?

J.T. I think it is rather that the Spirit's work is in evidence there. He is much in evidence in Romans, because Romans is the foundation; but I think Colossians contemplates His work. He says, "You ... hath he quickened". Colossians 2:13. It is the work of the Spirit. The Spirit is mentioned in Colossians only in connection with love.

Ques. Are the parables spoken here to encourage persistency in prayer in the sense of need: "Your Father knoweth what things ye have need of"? Matthew 6:8.

J.T. Yes; He gives the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him.

Ques. Would it be right to pray for an increase of the Spirit in connection with our local assembly?

J.T. It would, indeed. How different things would be, under certain circumstances, if opportunity were afforded the Spirit of God. This passage is to encourage us to get on that line.

L.D.B. The sensitiveness which you mentioned is very suggestive. It says, "the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot", Genesis 8:9. What sensitive discrimination!

J.T. The Spirit takes account of life. The dove came back the second time with an olive leaf plucked off. She did not pick up a dead leaf -- it was plucked off; as if to remind us that the Spirit takes account of the energy of life.

R.J.W. Can the Spirit work from that?

J.T. He can, even if there is only one living one in the company. If the conditions which the prayer indicates exist I believe the Holy Spirit has liberty.

S.F. Would true prayer to God open up the channel for this unspeakable blessing to be enjoyed down here?

J.T. That is right. What the Lord says here is to encourage us to persist, because that is the only solution for local discord. The thing is to bring in the Spirit.

H.L.D. Would it be right to pray for the Spirit now?

J.T. It would be right if you did not have Him. I should not pray for Him if I had Him.

A.H.R. Would you encourage us to pray that there might be conditions for Him to come in?

J.T. Quite. That He might act in power. I should not like to weaken the Scripture which says, "How much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him", Luke 11:13.

J.C.S. The Spirit has come in answer to desire. If there is no desire one cannot think of the Spirit coming in this connection.

Ques. What gives the desire?

J.T. The knowledge that conditions locally are not according to heaven, and that He is available to prayer.

R.J.W. Would it be a heart's desire? It says of David, in Acts 13:22, "I have found David ... a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will". And then the apostle reminds them of God's promise, as it says, "I will give you the sure mercies of David", Acts 13:34.

J.T. The Lord brings in the fathers after the flesh and compares them with the Father which is of heaven, and shows the greatness of His giving.

Ques. What do you say about Cornelius in that way-he prayed to God?

J.T. He prayed as one having light. One may pray without having the Spirit; he did not have the Spirit.

A.R.G. In what connection is the Spirit received here -- as indwelling?

J.T. I take the incident at Ephesus, in Acts 19, as an example. "Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed?" That is what they needed.

A.R.G. That is collective.

J.T. It is.

R.J.W. That is, there were twelve men there, and the prayer is all in the plural.

J.T. That is what was needed. Paul laid his hands on them and they received the Spirit. That was the foundation of the Ephesian assembly, wherein there were conditions that would agree with heaven.

A.R.G. Is the thought making room for Him amongst us?

J.T. That is the idea.

H.L.D. Would this refer to Pentecost? There they were praying.

J.T. No doubt. This was written long after Pentecost, and it is to encourage us to pray; because if you see brethren biting and devouring one another, how can you tell whether they have the Spirit or not? The question is whether they have.

J.C.S. The idea is that the furnishings would all be orderly, beautiful; all animated with divine love flowing from the Spirit. It is a place where the Lord can come and feel at home, and the Spirit can rest without being disturbed, and the brethren can rest.

J.T. You see it in Ephesus. Paul represented the Lord in visiting Ephesus after the assembly had been set up. He embraces them as he leaves them, and then, as he returns and calls for the elders, they embrace him. There is the evidence of spiritual affections. If the Lord Himself had come He would have been received just as Paul, because Paul was His representative. As he went to Tyre, as recorded in the next chapter (Acts 21), the brethren, their wives and children came out to the seashore, and all kneeled down together and prayed. There you see heavenly conditions. What a spectacle for heaven as they were all there with the apostle! Then in Ptolemais he went up and saluted the brethren, and spent a day with them; Acts 21:7. "The brethren" is a heavenly suggestion. He saluted them; he did

not rebuke them; there was evidently nothing to rebuke. Then he came to Caesarea and entered into the house of Philip the evangelist. That dignified name, which was undoubtedly fitting, is given to Philip. It says, he "had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy". Acts 21:9. The Spirit of God is pleased to say they prophesied and they were virgins. These are heavenly suggestions. The Lord Himself would have been quite free had He come to this place with Paul. I think the apostle's last journey to Jerusalem is to bring these facts into evidence -- the great results of his ministry. There is nothing said about his ministry; the evident results were there, because it says they spoke to him by the Spirit.

L.D.B. To follow up the first scripture we looked at, the saints in this place were now different, and their garments were white and glistening.

J.T. That is the thought exactly.

J.C.S. So they learned to walk on high places.

J.T. Just so; and the fact that the Holy Spirit testified to him in every city shows He was free in the assemblies in these cities. He could speak through a brother, because, if He testified to Paul, it was through some brother or sister in the place.

J.C.S. They were well furnished there.

L.D.B. Do you think it is all possible still?

J.T. I do. It is what the Lord is aiming at now -- to have "gardens" into which He can come and feed among the lilies.

Rem. The brethren dwelt together in unity in the places mentioned.

THE DEVELOPMENT OF LIFE COLLECTIVELY

Judges 14:5 - 9; Colossians 2:6 - 9

J.T. I thought the Lord would be pleased to help us to see in these passages something of how life is developed, and how it appears collectively. It occurred to me that the passage in Judges affords the initial idea of collective life; that is, it is life out of death-not simply the light of life, but active life. Perhaps creation affords no better illustration of life in activity- than that of bees in the hive. The Spirit of God seems to employ these creatures to illustrate the energy of life in a company. We may see life illustrated otherwise, as it appears in an individual, but I think this type is life out of death seen properly in a company. It says, as "he returned to take her (his wife) he turned aside to see the carcase of the lion, and, behold, there was a swarm of bees and honey in the carcase of the lion, and he took thereof in his hands and went ...". We see there, I think, a type of the Lord appropriating the result of His death as it appeared in life. It is not the abstract idea of life, but the concrete idea. Thus it is a type of those who have come out of His death, being active in producing that which is acceptable to Him.

E.B.McC. I think that is very helpful. It would set forth the activities of the assemblies in life.

J.T. The great point in reference to life is that it is out of death according to what it is for God, and we have in Hosea 6 an example. Verse 2 says, "After two days will he revive us; in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight". Hosea 6:2. The Lord, I believe, in showing Himself alive to His disciples after He rose, intended to set out before their eyes what life is as before God. "He showed

himself" to them "alive"; not 'risen'. Of course He was risen, but the point was "alive". Everyone who rested his eyes on the Lord during those forty days, especially when He intended to convey the idea of life as manifestation, would remember ever afterwards what the divine idea was, and would seek to be conformed to it. Colossians is intended to bring about in us conformity to Christ as alive; indeed, it is said, as we read in chapter 2, "He had quickened together with him". I understand the word 'together' has reference to the saints. So that, as quickened together with Him, the thought is we are to live with Him, as He is. Then again, in the prophet Isaiah, in the case of Hezekiah, we have a further thought of the living -- in life; his soul is delivered. Hezekiah was cut off figuratively in the meridian of his life, but he is made to live. He is brought up from the gates of the grave, and he says, "The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day", Isaiah 38:19. So that we are to live in God's sight according to Christ, and then praise as in life.

E.B.McC. Hezekiah would set forth one who would arise from the dead, and as risen he says, "The living, he shall praise thee".

J.T. Yes, and it is in the house of the Lord; and so the Psalms end, as we have often remarked, with everything that has breath praising the Lord. The great thing is to see that it is all living -- everything that has breath. I think that our meetings for worship sometimes run short of breath. We do not run short of words, because they have been coined for us; others have used them; they are thus ready made. But it is not words only, it is breath expressed in words; and if we run short of breath, so to speak, it is wise to stop. We have to admit it. We are not equal to very much that is for God. We are equal for more that is from God.

E.B.McC. Breath means spiritual life.

J.T. Yes, that is the idea of breath.

R.J.W. Do you connect that with John 20 in any way?

J.T. Well, the Lord breathed into them. That would be that they were to have His Spirit. Whilst we are down here we need the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

W.J.P. Do you connect John 6 with support?

J.T. Yes, the "bread of God" is the support of life.

J.C.S. Do you think the Lord Jesus in Acts 1 presented Himself "living" so that they might have some idea of life according to God?

J.T. Well, I thought that. You see, all that happened during the forty days was a pattern of what should come about later by the Spirit. Hence, among other things, He presents Himself alive, or living. They would see a living Man, and that would ever afterwards impress every one of them, and each one would say, 'That is what Christ was when I saw Him'. And Peter, in presenting Dorcas, presented her alive, or living. There would be a woman set down in the midst of the saints. They would have before them constantly a living woman. Lazarus was one of those that sat at table with the Lord -- a great testimony to life there.

Ques. Would Colossians answer to the forty days of our Lord?

J.T. That is what I thought. It is the working out of that in the Christian circle, or the assembly; we are to be brought into accord with Him. "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him". He is the test for all.

J.C.S. So that, to follow the figure, Colossians would show that the bees had been active?

J.T. I thought we might work it out that way. There were bees and honey, showing typically, that

the activity of life had yielded something the Lord would take up. He asks, "Have ye anything here to eat?" Luke 24:41. They gave Him part of a broiled fish and of an honeycomb, and He took it and ate before them.

M.P.M. In that way He drinks of the brook by the way, and gets refreshment from His saints.

J.T. Quite so.

Ques. What is the thought, He ate honey and went on?

J.T. It indicates, I think, what the Lord receives now from those who are alive from the dead, for the assembly is the product of His death. He looks for the sweetness of mutual relations among the brethren. It is delightful. The Lord's supper, for instance, rightly apprehended, is that we sit down together and feed on what is presented to us through the love of Christ seen in Him as dead; because it is a dead Christ that is before us immediately, not a living Christ. It is not that we remember Him as dead; we remember Him as alive -- as absent; but the memorial is, in the simplest sense, that He has been into death -- the blood separate from the body; that the Lord Jesus actually died, and that He died in love. Nothing can exceed the sweetness of that, as rightly apprehended. The saints sit down together and have communion in it, and love springs out of it. He gets His portion out of all that.

J.C.S. So that the love which is carried to us in the suggestion of a dead Christ is to be formative and productive. We have thus something in life answering spiritually to what was seen in Him during those forty days.

J.T. That, I think, is exactly what we come to. It is a question for us all, how much we are in that life as in the assembly; and we should not go beyond our measure in our activity there.

Ques. Would you say this evidence of life is to be seen here on earth?

J.T. That is really the Christian circle -- the green spot, anticipating the time when life shall be apparent everywhere. The Christian circle is the green spot now, and Colossians is to remove all that hinders; the thorns and weeds that grow naturally have to be kept out. That is what Colossians is mainly for, so that there should be full development of life in the assembly. There is thus the full result of "holding fast the head, from whom all the body, ministered to and united together by the joints and bands, increases with the increase of God", Colossians 2:19. The Lord gets His portion, and He gives it to the Father. There is an indication here (Judges 14) that the Father gets His part.

W.J.P. Would that occur on Lord's day morning: he ate and went on, and gave to his father and mother?

J.T. Well, one would not strain the scripture or be fanciful, but there seems to be an indication there of what the Lord does. Samson "turned aside to see the carcase of the lion, and, behold, there was a swarm of bees and honey in the carcase of the lion. And he took thereof in his hands, and went on eating, and came to his father and mother, and he gave them, and they did eat", Judges 14:8,9.

G.R.G. Would that be an example of the Lord accepting the honeycomb from His disciples and appropriating to Himself the fruit of His own death?

J.T. Well, that is what I was thinking. In Luke 24 He comes to them and says, "Have ye here any meat?" The bees had been working. The two had returned from Emmaus having had their share of the honey, because the Lord appeared to them in the breaking of bread, and they related that; but the others also had been working, because the Lord had appeared unto Simon, and they were all there together in the light of these things; thus the honeycomb was being formed. Hence when the

Lord comes, He says, "Have ye anything here to eat?" That put them to the test. He knew what was there, but He would bring it out.

W.J.P. How do you view the lion in death?

J.T. It is death, but now productive of life as Christ has been into it. It says, "it roared against him" (verse 5); but now the bees and honey are in the carcase.

E.B.McC. It sets forth the death of Christ, and the assembly coming out of His death.

J.T. Yes, it is a striking figure of that. The bees are in the carcase, and the honey was there; so that it is life out of death, or through death.

W.J.P. I suppose Samson's riddle would explain that.

J.T. Yes, quite.

J.C.S. If the Lord were to come and ask us whether we had anything to eat, it might be testing. Have we any honey, and are we in life?

J.T. It is not necessary that everyone should speak. It is a question of the power of life, as I remarked; because it may be that we need to hear something from Him that would be of more value than what we are endeavouring to say to Him. He would have something to say to us.

R.McM. Would we be conscious of what our measure is, and know when we are out of breath?

J.T. I think if we were with God we should know just when we had reached the limit of our worship. Of course the Lord helps us as we draw near to God, but there is much repetition of words, which should be avoided; and then a brother need not speak just because he is present.

Ques. Is the honey found in the assembly?

J.T. I think it is the product of mutual relations.

Ques. The result of the affections of the saints, would you say?

J.T. Just so, as set together in the assembly.

J.C.S. So that we should know when we are in assembly whether we are out of breath, so to speak; whether we are going beyond the power of life.

J.T. The Lord might have something to say. One idea in the assembly is that He speaks. He loves to hear our voices, but He speaks. The setting of 1 Corinthians is: in chapter 11 you have the Lord's supper; then in chapter 12 His operations; in chapter 13 it is love in the saints, which is the way of surpassing excellence; and in chapter 14 ministry.

J.C.S. So that when breath no longer remains, to keep up the figure, the Lord may address a word to us at that moment. It would be for us to listen then.

J.T. I think one feature of the assembly is for the very purpose that there might be divine speaking, which results in replenishment. There is always increase from the Head; increase, not through what we say, but rather in what He says. "Holding fast the head, from whom all the body", Colossians 2:19 etc. The increase is in what comes from the Lord.

Ques. Are you limiting your remarks to when we are actually in assembly?

J.T. I am speaking for the moment of that, because as there you would look for the movement of life in what we are before God. The honeycomb represents more than one bee; it is the outcome of mutual relations, so there is something for the Lord.

J.C.S. I suppose there is no moment when the affections of the saints are so susceptible, or when they can be so readily impressed with what is spiritual. It seems really a unique moment for the Lord to address us at that time; He would say something to us.

Rem. The land beyond Jordan flowed with milk and honey.

J.T. Yes, just so; there is plenty there.

M.P.M. But we are not able to sustain our part very long; we have limitations.

J.T. Generally we cannot afford very much, and the Lord knows that we are very limited. It is wisdom to recognise our limitations.

M.P.M. The danger is of becoming artificial.

E.B.McC. Is there not a certain light governing us at that moment?

J.T. There is a certain light which governs us as we come together to break bread. Then there is the thought of what we are for God, and for that you need particularly to have power. Many break bread, and so far own they are helped and nourished, but do not go over Jordan; they are not disfellowshipped by that. They are in the assembly, but they lack the power to go over Jordan. It is as we recognise the Lord as Head that He would lead us to the Father. But then that is not all. 1 Corinthians shows there is more than that. As a matter of fact there is all that follows during the week as the extension of the saints having come together in assembly. This is one thing; but there is another, and according to 1 Corinthians 14 the assembly involves ministry, and prophecy edifies the assembly.

M.P.M. And would the light that governs us in coming together thus govern the Lord's ministry to us at that time?

J.T. I think so. A message from the Lord is opportune, and if we consult the saints we would find they enjoy it. We have to admit it, most of us need constantly to be ministered to.

H.L.D. Would there be a special character about that ministry?

J.T. No doubt there would. What we have just then been engaged with would lend a peculiar character to it. It would be a word from the Head.

S.F. Would you say that such a word would fit in well and come about when breath is exhausted?

J.T. Well, that is what I thought. The Lord might speak to us then.

Ques. Joseph said to his brethren, "come near to me". Genesis 45:4 Would that involve the idea?

J.T. I think that leads on to the assembly -- to what we are before God. Then there were communications after that which Joseph made. That would fit in with what we were saying.

J.C.S. So you think a word at that moment would descend gracefully on the spirits of the saints.

J.T. It is the refreshment of the dew coming down mediatorially, I apprehend, because Hermon refers to Christ as the Mediator. I would like to leave with the sense that something came into my soul from the Lord; also that something had gone from me to Him.

Ques. Would you say that ministry from the Lord in the assembly would be productive of further breathing?

J.T. No doubt.

E.B.McC. It is the five words in the Spirit -- a word from the Lord.

J.T. Brevity is the thing, but each of the five words has its own weight and power.

Ques. It would be like a "word fitly spoken"? Proverbs 25:11.

J.T. Well, just so; it is just a word, but it is fitly spoken, and becomes an ornament.

Ques. Would you mind saying a word about "in assembly"?

J.T. We come together in assembly to break bread; that is how we come together; and it is the beginning of the week. It would seem that 1 Corinthians 11, 12, 13 and 14 cover the whole week, because all the ministry that comes in is of a piece, but it begins with the breaking of bread.

Ques. Would you expect to find the savour of it at the prayer meeting?

J.T. Yes. The assembly's life is one of weeks, in a sense. We learn individually by the day; so you have the time between the resurrection of Christ and

the coming of the Spirit -- fifty days, or weeks (see Leviticus 23); sometimes it is "weeks", sometimes "days". I think the weeks refer to assembly history, and the days to individual history.

Ques. The assembly would answer to the swarm of bees?

J.T. I thought that. Judges 14 would give you the initial idea, not that one would be fanciful; but there is denoted in a Swarm of bees all the energy of life. They are all active, and there is the result. They are not working aimlessly. I think the bee represents life in its instincts. There are no creatures more marked by intelligent instincts than bees.

E.B.McC. The instincts of life were with Deborah -- the name meaning 'a bee'.

W.J.P. The bee always works toward the hive. It is not the individual idea.

J.T. It is collective. The bee works collectively.

Ques. Would you say that the honey given by, Samson to his father and mother would bring in the thought of the family?

J.T. No doubt. There is an indication there of what the Lord does.

J.C.S. The great thing to look for is the activity of life in the assembly. Colossians has been introduced as showing that certain things have to be guarded, or they will neutralise that.

J.T. Then another thing in regard to Samson. While there is much about his history that is very humiliating and extremely incongruous to us, to say the least, still, the life-line runs through his history, and this is developed in chapter 15. He finds a fresh jawbone of an ass, meaning that this life which has just begun must be sustained by being kept near death; death is ever there; and the Lord's supper, I think, maintains the death of the Lord in its freshness continually, so that we do not get far removed from it. If we do the life is not sustained, because

this life is out of death. It is a great principle of the life we have. He takes (as the better version reads) "a fresh jawbone". Judges 15:15. Death had just happened. The Lord's supper should ever be as if it had happened just now; it should come to us as if we were present when it occurred. Thus the Lord's supper, rightly apprehended, maintains us in freshness -- it is a 'fresh' jawbone; so we are kept near the death of the Lord always. Then, later, he takes the gates, bar and all -- showing the energy of life in power -- and takes them up to the top of the hill before Hebron, which, I think, directs us to Colossians, which is our Hebron. It is before the world was. It is the purpose of God for us, outside the world. That is what you get in Samson, and I think it helps greatly as to the maintenance of life amongst us, because if I am to reach Colossians it is not enough that I have the Spirit of God; I must be formed. The Spirit is only mentioned once, and that is to say that they loved in the Spirit; that was the kind of love they had at Colosse. It was not a preferential love -- not of special friendships, but love like God's love. Love in the Spirit is general -- you love all the saints.

M.P.M. The word 'together' would come in there.

Rem. It is the privilege of all to contribute to the honey supply.

J.T. It is; every saint should have something. The Lord went after two on the way to Emmaus. I understand Emmaus means what is insignificant. The Lord, in going out after them and bringing them back, shows that He is concerned about the most insignificant believer. He appeared to these two; then they contributed. The most insignificant, as we speak, is intended to contribute.

M.P.M. It would be difficult to get a better illustration of the thought of mutuality than what is seen

in a hive of bees. They are all working together for the commonwealth.

Ques. Is there anything in the thought that it was a swarm -- not a hive? They had swarmed.

J.T. That word 'swarm' has been used a good deal lately. Where meetings are too large it is a wise thing to swarm, so that you may all yield something for the Lord.

E.B.McC. You were saying that bees have instinct.

J.T. I think they represent the intelligent instincts of life. We are brought into correspondence with Him in whom dwelt all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. In Colossians 1 all the fulness dwelt in Him personally; but in the second chapter it dwells in Him bodily, so as to be within our reach, and we are "filled full" in Him. That I take to be objective truth; that is, we are circumcised in his circumcision, "in the putting off of the body of the flesh" Colossians 2:11 -- the power of it; then we are baptised and risen with Him: "buried with him in baptism" Colossians 2:12; buried and risen with Him through the faith of the working of God, who raised Him from among the dead. So that positionally we are set up in relation to Christ as risen, as He was during the forty days. Then we are quickened -- quickened together with Him. By the Spirit we are made to actually live with Christ, and this is the ground of the Christian circle. We are brought into correspondence with Christ, and made to live with Him in our affections.

J.C.S. That is the answer to Christ presented living -- I mean the answer to it in the saints.

J.T. Exactly. We are living now-we are living with Him.

R.J.W. It says in the Acts, "he presented himself living after he had suffered" Acts 1:3; He assembled with them.

J.T. That is very good. The living One -- He assembled with them. In Colossians 2 He has blotted

out the handwriting of ordinances that stood against us; He has taken them out of the way; and then He spoils principalities and powers, making a show of them openly. Everything is removed, so that we need not be hindered by legal requirements -- things belonging to a past dispensation but which have been set aside in His cross.

J.C.S. None of these things have any place in that sphere where there is life out of death.

J.T. He has taken the handwriting out of the way. Now there is room for the development of life; so the next thing is, we are to hold the Head. The whole body, as it says, is nourished from Him: "From whom all the body, by joints and bands, having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God". Colossians 2:19. There is development of life from Christ.

H.L.D. Do you think the saints touch life in part here and there, but do not continue in it? The great objective seems to be life.

J.T. I think we are very spasmodic. We touch it occasionally, but it is the continuance of the thing we should be concerned about. The object of the chapter is to develop life.

J.C.S. The continuance of it depends on how near we keep to the death of Christ.

Ques. What is the increase of God?

J.T. It is increase according to Him. If you look at the creation you see what wonderful bounty God has -- how rich the supply is. No matter what part of the creation you look at, there is abundance. Take the heavens, see the immensity of things; or on the earth the same thing appears-the abundance of everything as God gives it. So, if you look at the Christian company, the increase is of that kind -- it is great; it is according to God.

Rem. If you take the figure of the bees in the activity of life you get increase.

J. T. The thing is to increase in love according to the pattern of Christ -- the increase of God.

J.C.S. How do we hold the Head?

J.T. In our minds and affections. You apprehend Christ as He is. In Colossians He is Head personally; in Romans morally. In Romans He comes into my soul on moral grounds, because He is my Saviour; He has done everything for me, and eclipses all else. He supersedes everybody on moral lines. But in Colossians He is Head on personal lines, being what He is, He is the beginning of the creation of God. He is the Head of the body, the assembly. He must have pre-eminence in all things, because of what He is personally. Then in the epistle to the Ephesians He is made Head. God has made Him Head of the body now. We have to apprehend Him in these three lights in order to rightly hold the Head.

R.J.W. In Romans there is the power to solve all questions of good and evil, and in Ephesians He is able to bring to pass all the purposes of God.

J.T. In Colossians you hold Him as He is presented there; then nourishment comes in from Him, and God gives the increase. There is the working of the joints and bands, and God gives the increase.

W.J.P. Would holding the Head safeguard us from turning to any other source?

J.T. I often picture Mary Magdalene in John 20. Suppose you went to her with the latest book on philosophy and said, 'Mary, here is something that will help you'. What would she think? The Lord was there, and He was everything to her. She needed nothing outside of Him. She would say, 'I don't need it'. That is the point in Colossians; you do not need anything outside of Christ.

L.D.B. There is a book that sometimes troubles us a little -- the hymn book.

J.T. Sometimes, I think, our brethren come to the assembly with the hymn book and leave the Bible at

home, which, to my mind, is an indication of a want of understanding of the assembly. They do not expect God to speak to them. The principle of the Bible is that God speaks to us; the principle of the hymn book is that we speak or sing to God.

Ques. Do you think we arrive at the thought of His Headship in Colossians as we apprehend Him as the Son of His love?

J.T. That is it. We are translated by the Father out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of the Son of His love. So He should be before us.

W.J.P. You would encourage us to bring both Bible and hymn book?

J.T. Certainly. "The word of God and freely addressing him" is the principle of Christianity.

M.P.M. What you say brings in necessary adjustment for many of us.

E.B.McC. You were speaking elsewhere of the highest note. How would that come in with a word from the Lord on Lord's day morning?

J.T. It is like the angel going up in the flame in Judges; but that would not hinder Him speaking.

J.C.S. It is the climax on the upward line, the other is the downward line.

J.T. Exactly.

E.B.McC. Would you think giving out notices at the end a right thing?

J.T. That means that you are closing the meeting, and is not right. If anyone undertakes to do anything that he means to indicate is the closing of the meeting, then I think he is a little out of line, because the assembly is left open; it is a weekly thing. It is the Lord's matter, not mine; it is His assembly -- it is left open. I think all that follows in the week is a continuation of the assembly.

S.F. That is, our time expires, and it is necessary for us to go home, but as to the meeting, I like the idea that, it is left open.

G.R.G. "He ... went on eating". Does that indicate that the supply of honey was continuously available?

J.T. Just so.

Ques. Would you say our meeting this afternoon is an outcome of this morning's meeting?

J.T. Yes, certainly.

Ques. Should we always be moving on that line, in connection with what you were saying about the meeting being left open?

J.T. Yes. It is available for the Lord when we come together; there is something for Him. Numbers 28 prescribes the number and order of Jehovah's offerings, and we are to be there to offer them.

G.H.C. I think the end of Luke confirms what you have been saying. After the Lord partook of the fish and honeycomb He spoke to them and opened their understanding, so that they might understand the Scriptures, and then He led them out to Bethany.

POWER FOR WITNESS

2 Kings 2:1 - 14; 2 Kings 5:1 - 14

J.T. There are some passages in 2 Kings that I believe the Lord would use to link on with what we have had in Luke. What we have had in the gospel of Luke in connection with prayer as seen in the Lord Jesus has in view that we should be witnesses. He said in the last chapter, "Ye are witnesses of these things", but they were to remain in the city. He said, "I send the promise of my Father upon you"; Luke 24:48 - 49 but they were to remain in the city until they should be clothed with power from on high; that is, the witnesses are to be clothed in heavenly power. Prayer is the secret of power, and it occurred to me that this book of 2 Kings fits in with that teaching. We see how Elisha clings to Elijah, Elijah emphasising that the Lord had sent him to different points. It begins with the statement that Jehovah would take up Elijah into the heavens by a whirlwind, and then it says, "Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. And Elijah said unto Elisha, Tarry here, I pray thee; for the Lord hath sent me to Bethel. And Elisha said unto him, As the Lord liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they went down to Bethel". Elijah lays stress on the Lord having sent him to the places mentioned; he was under divine control -- an important point for all of us, especially in connection with witnessing. The Lord emphasised in the prayer that we read this morning that it was to be the Father's will -- "Not my will, but thine", Luke 22:42 and Elijah here emphasises that point. He says, "Jehovah has sent me to Bethel", etc. But the exercise that comes out in Elisha is what underlies this dispensation: "As Jehovah liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee".

We have to understand that; and then finally, as he traverses the whole course involved in the testimony of God with Elijah, he now asks a double portion of his spirit. The dispensation of grace is set up in type in Elisha.

Then, subsequently, we have the development of a Christian in the light of all this; that we find in chapter 4 where the widow of the prophet comes in typically for the Spirit -- she receives the Spirit. She learns that there is an unlimited supply; the limit was in the vessels. Then she has to sell the oil, pay her debt and live of the rest. Following upon her we have the woman of Shunem, who is said to be a "great woman". She makes room for the man of God; she is concerned about the testimony; Then she receives her son back from the dead. Then the "great pot" is set on, and the poisonous weed is brought in, and death is in the pot; Elisha remedies it by "meal". The meal would point to the humanity of Christ. Then we have the "man from Baal-shalisha", pointing to the heavenly side of the truth. Following this we have the little maid, who represents, as I understand, the testimony that is rendered by the Christian in the light of all this. One's exercise is that we might see how we may be evangelical without presuming to be; without taking up any official place, because that is what she represents -- effective work, and yet no pretension to be anything officially. Hence it is within the range or every Christian, but it can only be effective in those who have developed on the lines indicated in this chapter.

J.C.S. So that the various points or suggestions that you have indicated thus lie within the range of all. There are possibilities for all the people of God, and these things must really be true of us before the testimony can flow out from us.

J.T. That is it. If you leap over chapter 4 you may have evangelical christendom, but there is no

power according to God, and there must be some claim to official position to make up for that.

J.C.S. So that your suggestion is that the thing can go on today without any pretension; it is carried on on moral grounds.

J.T. Yes; and what comes out in the ministry of the little maid, confirmed as it was by Elisha, is that it is a question, not of the person who preaches, or to whom the light comes, but of the authority of the word.

E.B.McC. So that is why you emphasised "Jehovah has sent me", and linked it up with the Lord, who says, "As my Father hath sent me, even so send I you". John 20:21.

J.T. Quite; then the word of the little maid had to be accepted by Naaman, and later, the word of Elisha, if Naaman would be cleansed, The basis of the dispensation in its bearing is in subjection. The first great lesson is subjection. The Lord Jesus taught that in His own path here, and what God found in Christ is the standard; He could not be satisfied with anything less than that; that is the principle.

E.B.McC. That is brought about, you say, by suffering. That is the only way. "To make perfect the leader of their salvation through sufferings", Hebrews 2:10.

J.T. So I think, the Lord taking up Paul, who is a great exemplification of the dispensation in its heavenly character, says, "I will show him how great things he must suffer", Acts 9:16. Suffering went with the ministry.

J.C.S. He was to be both a witness and a minister, and that is what you are leading on to, is it not -- that there might be witnesses here?

J.T. We cannot jump over chapter 4, and take up chapter 5 of 2 Kings. It is a well-known gospel chapter, but in order to preach from it one has to understand chapter 4; he has to understand chapter 2

also, but chapter 4 is of special importance. It shows us how we come in for the Spirit, and discover that the supply is unlimited; the limitations are only with us.

M.P.M. Is it similar to the thought of the Spirit in Romans: "the Spirit is life because of righteousness"? Romans 8:10

J.T. Just so. The Spirit enables you to discharge every moral obligation, because no one can be a witness for Christ who has any undischarged obligations.

R.J.W. Is that why the woman is said to live? She is not a finger-post, but a living witness.

J.T. She has discharged all her obligations, paid all her debts, and lives.

J.C.S. So that according to this light there is no excuse for having obligations undischarged. All the possibilities lie in the Spirit, so that you have power to fulfil them.

J.T. I think that generally in Christendom chapter 4 is ignored, hence the world has to be appealed to for support. They resort to the world; subscriptions are taken up sometimes in large proportions. The work of God is carried on by the support of the world, whereas the support really is in the Spirit, and chapter 4 shows us the unlimitedness of the Spirit. The limitations were only with the woman; as there were no more vessels the oil stopped, but there was enough for her to pay her debts and live of the rest. Then what follows upon that is a great woman. Not great in the world's estimation, because she did not want worldly distinction; she said, "I dwell among mine own people", 2 Kings 4:13. She was a great woman because, typically, she had acquired the Spirit. She acquired the knowledge of the unlimitedness of the Spirit; hence she uses her means to provide a room or house for the prophet, the vessel of the testimony.

Then her son is given back to her from the dead, and the man from Baal-shalisha comes in, showing that there is a heavenly supply. Then we have the little maid. She is a type of the kind of witness that is rendered, for all this shows that there is no pretension at all; she is just a little maid serving, waiting on her mistress, having been taken captive by the Syrians.

M.P.M. So that the little maid is in accord with all we have seen in the earlier chapters?

J.T. Yes, quite; I believe her testimony embodies all this.

M.P.M. There is very little to take account of outwardly, but much to strengthen and build us up inwardly.

J.C.S. I suppose Christendom, in a way, has really ignored the Lord -- ignored the supply.

J.T. I think so; that is how the matter stands; whereas the Lord would call us back to the supply and enable us to witness without pretension -- without claiming to be officials.

M.P.M. Would you explain what it means to pay one's obligations; it may not be clear to all?

J.T. Well, Romans 8 puts it concisely: the righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled in us "who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit". Romans 8:4.

Ques. Would it be fulfilled in the maid waiting on Naaman's wife?

J.T. Well, she is content to do that; she accepted her circumstances without murmuring. The little maid is not marked by any national feeling; there is no resentment at all. Were she influenced by national feeling she might have said, "Let him die, the Syrians are our oppressors". That would be national feeling, but she has none of that; she wants him healed. He is a leper, and she knows who can cleanse him, and so directs him to Elisha.

I think this passage helps us to be content to

serve without any public recognition at all. Those who really serve Christ today have no public recognition, nor do they seek it. They may be "unknown, and yet well-known", because the world may pretend not to know you, even though it does know you.

A.H.R. Going back to chapter 2, is this what you would term the double portion of the Spirit?

J.T. I think the double portion is the portion of the firstborn, and it marks the whole dispensation. It is for every believer. The Spirit is here now in an unlimited way; we come into it. The double portion is what characterises the whole dispensation.

J.C.S. As you were saying, the little maid served in obscurity, but one would gather that in the exercise of her service she had discharged her obligations in such a way that her testimony was effective.

J.T. Apparently so; it weighed with them.

E.B.McC. She had light and faith. She had no doubts in her mind.

J.T. None whatever. She did nothing, but gave her word. Her word put the test for Naaman. It tested him and the flesh in him; and the kings of Syria and Israel were exposed by it; but the word of the little maid stood. Then Elisha did not come out to see him; he sent a messenger, saying, "Go and wash in Jordan". But Naaman was angry and went away. If you do not believe the little maid you are tested by the message of the prophet.

R.McM. It is not only a question of the forgiveness of sins. The testing of the little maid suggested something more than that.

J.T. It did: "Would that my lord were before the prophet that is in Samaria!" It is not 'with', but "before". He is a suppliant; he must take a humble place before the prophet. She is guided aright in her words.

S.F. She had carried the light of the God of Israel into that locality.

J.T. That is what I thought. What we should note is the entire absence of national feeling.

E.B.McC. She had light away beyond the officials of Israel; the king did not know what to say to Naaman.

R.J.W. Is she serving in the dignity and liberty of sonship as suggested in Romans?

J.T. Yes, typically. She is outside national feeling, she is in liberty.

J.C.S. She has apprehended the character of God's house in its universal aspect; it was to be a house of prayer for all nations.

S.F. Is it not worthy of note that the Lord uses this very incident: "Many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed saying Naaman the Syrian", Luke 4:27.

J.T. The Lord brings that in in Luke, so it bears out what we were saying. I think she would be fully in the light if we take it up anti-typically. We are really here in the presence of a believer in the light of Ephesians; he is obscure outwardly, but he knows what he is saying -- he is definite.

Ques. I thought of what we had before us this morning of the Lord typified by Elijah. Is it necessary to company with him to know how to move?

J.T. That is what I thought. Elisha had to travel with him from point to point, each point representing some feature of the testimony, and then they cross Jordan. There are the sons of the prophets looking on. These are persons who stand afar off; they have information, but the information is second-hand, and Elisha knows better than they do. There are many who have information about the ascension and second coming of the Lord, but they have it second-hand, and the persons from whom they have got it know much more about it than they do. They may talk more about it, but the second coming of the

Lord is known to those who get it first-hand better than to those who get it second-hand.

M.P.M. He was to see him taken up; that is not a second-hand thought.

J.T. The sons of the prophets did not go in for that. As a matter of fact, they would deny the ascension of Christ.

A.R.G. Is there a good deal in the fact that the little maid seemed to take the situation on her spirit?

J.T. She felt for Naaman. I think you will see there is emotion in her remark. She said to her mistress, "Oh, would that my lord were before the prophet that is in Samaria!" It is an emotional remark; she is not merely interested in a passing way, she is moved in sympathy for her master.

A.R.G. That would be the fruit of the Spirit, and that is the spring of our testimony as believers.

J.T. I am sure if you feel things the Lord will help you to meet them.

Rem. So being set up in the Spirit we should be able to fill any position we are placed in.

J.T. And fill it in a comely way, without any pretension to being officials.

J.C.S. Would what this little maid said answer to "the compassions of God"? Romans 12:1.

J.T. It is an emotional remark. It is a poor thing if we are not moved. The Lord was moved with compassion; He had compassion on the widow of Nain, and Romans impresses us with the compassions of God. We are besought by the compassions of God (Romans 12), so that it is God's feelings working out in us.

L.D.B. Bondmen are addressed in Ephesians. There are some interesting remarks about them. "Bondmen, obey masters according to flesh, with fear and trembling, in simplicity of your heart as to the Christ; not with eye-service as men-pleasers, but as bondmen of Christ, doing the will of God from the

soul, serving with good will as to the Lord, and not to men", Ephesians 6:5.

J.T. That is very interesting, and would fit in here.

L.D.B. The apostle would promote the spirit of the little maid amongst the Ephesian saints.

J.T. There is no indication that her position or circumstances were irksome to her. She served her mistress, as it says, "She waited on Naaman's wife". According to Titus, a slave may adorn the doctrine -- make it attractive even to an unbelieving master; and that involves emancipation of soul, that one is above one's circumstances, in the dignity of his heavenly calling.

Rem. That is the way the testimony is carried on at the present moment by those who are sympathetic with God, and His character is made known.

L.D.B. You mentioned that 2 Kings 2 - 4 brought us out as Ephesian saints in testimony.

J.T. That is, I think, borne out fully by the facts in these chapters.

W.W. I suppose what the little maid said was a word fitly spoken; she was an ornament in the house of God.

S.F. Would Ephesians 3 help too: "Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named"? Ephesians 3:15. There seems a widening out there. It is not within the confines of Israel, but widening out. This little maid seems to show a sympathetic spirit with what God was prepared to do.

J.T. Quite so.

J.C.S. I think one can see the importance of what you are calling attention to -- that the house might not only be furnished, but all is in divine order; all is divinely arranged so that the testimony may flow out from suitable conditions.

R.T. Could it be said that Elisha was marked by divine intimacy by being in company with Elijah?

He knew what had become of his master, and the sons of the prophets did not.

J.T. I think that is emphasised in his cleaving to Elijah; and then it says that they crossed the Jordan. They walked and talked as if the communion was now uninterrupted. It is not so much what they were saying, but that they were talking together. It was, as you might say, a Colossian position, as we had it yesterday -- they are on resurrection ground.

R.T. I was thinking, too, of the Lord speaking of His disciples: "because ye are with me from the beginning" John 15:17; they learnt of Him.

J.T. Thus the witnesses were to know Him as received up. So the end of Luke gives us the Lord carried up into heaven, and they "returned to Jerusalem with great joy, and were continually in the temple praising and blessing God". Luke 24:52. They are competent witnesses now, as having joy in their souls -- "praising and blessing God", it says.

Ques. In connection with Elisha, is there a challenge to our hearts as to how far we will go?

J.T. No doubt. He would go the whole length, and he is prepared to part with his own garments; he rends them in two pieces, meaning that he prefers the garment of the ascending man. It is like being clothed with power from on high. The disciples were to be clothed, as the Lord says. It does not comport with the modern clerical habiliments that we see; it is a heavenly garment.

Ques. Is that the reason why he divides Jordan on his return, as his master had done?

J.T. Yes; not in his own power, but in the power of the God of Elijah.

E.B.McC. Would that be the result of their talking together on the other side of Jordan?

J.T. He was intelligent as to what he was doing.

E.B.McC. And the result of that would be that the heavenly garments would be worn.

J.T. Quite. So now as he comes back over Jordan we have the dispensation inaugurated; a double portion of Elijah's spirit is here, and chapter 4 shows you how the believer comes in for that. It is not Elisha now; it is a distressed widow, she being a type of souls who are in distress -- they are in debt; so that chapter 4 is to show how the believer comes into all this. The Spirit is here already before any of us receives Him, and chapter 4 shows how we are developed as coming into it. As receiving the Spirit we become heavenly; and it is the heavenly believer really who is effective in testimony.

E.B.McC. You were speaking yesterday about giving and then receiving; that is the Lord's day morning meeting. There was the receiving as well as the giving; there should be time for that. Is that in your mind here?

J.T. What I have in mind is that chapter 4 shows how a needy soul comes in for relief in the Spirit, and develops from that into a spiritually great person; outwardly insignificant, but spiritually great. The Shunammite is said to have been "a great woman"; from that she developed appreciation of Christ risen from the dead, typically; that is Colossians. The first part of chapter 4 is Romans; the son received back from the dead is Colossians, and the third part Ephesians; the man from Baal-shalisha points to the supply coming in from heaven. All that enters into the witness -- the service of the little maid, and I think she may be taken to represent what God looks for today in the service of the gospel. I think it brings it down to the range of every one of us -- brothers and sisters alike -- the witness of this little maid.

M.P.M. Would it be seen in Onesimus, the slave? He was unprofitable, but in coming under the ministry of Paul he becomes profitable.

J.T. Quite.

J.C.S. Such an one would be fully furnished in view of the testimony.

R.J.W. Would Paul's discoursing be like the opening up of the position; it goes on to say "he conversed"; there was mutual enjoyment in it?

J.T. Just so.

J.C.S. Going back to the beginning of chapter 4, is there such an idea as a person in distress and in debt -- a person with the Spirit, but as yet not having learnt to use the Spirit?

J.T. I think there is. Peter and John began by saying, "Look on us. And he gave heed unto them expecting to receive something of them. Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none", Acts 3:4 - 6. That means they were relying on the Spirit, the Spirit of God here; and if believers in Christendom were to see what the meaning of this chapter 4 of 2 Kings is, it would deliver them from human organisation. Every religious organisation today is dependent on the world for support, whereas Christianity primarily was dependent wholly on the Spirit.

S.F. Would the woman's confession that, "The creditor is come to take unto him my two sons to be bondmen" have an application today? Since Pentecost things have been broken up, but the Lord by the Spirit is engaging our hearts with Christ. He is recovering light, and there is great encouragement at the present moment.

J.T. He is. I am sure he would lay it upon us who have the light to look about and see whether we cannot meet the need that exists, as we see in the case of this little maid.

J.C.S. Luke gives Peter's and John's going to the temple as being "at the hour of prayer". Acts 3:1. Prayer brings in the heavenly resources.

Rem. I suppose the great woman would show them she was independent of all outside resources.

J.T. Yes, even Elisha was not in the mind of the

Lord in asking would she be spoken of to the king. She says, "I dwell among mine own people". Most people, particularly today, would be very glad to be spoken of to the king or to the captain of the host. We know well enough how people run after these things. Alas! some of the Lord's people, too, quite pride themselves in them. This woman rebuked all this. She says, "I dwell among mine own people".

H.L.D. I suppose this great woman carries another lesson: there was a lack in her soul.

J. T. There was. Souls represented by her need to understand Colossians. As you apprehend Christ risen you see that you are risen with Him.

H.L.D. Would you say she lacked Christ as an object for her affections, and that this was supplied by her getting a son?

J.T. Yes. I think Colossians is the teaching that fits in there. You have in Colossians an object for your heart, no less than a divine Person, and that divine Person brought within your range. "In him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" Colossians 2:9; so that Christ is our life. In Colossians we have an abiding object for our affections -- Christ is our life. "Your life is hid with Christ in God".

R.T. The sons of the prophets said, "The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha"; has that an application at the present day?

J.T. It is the Spirit of Christ, I think, as seen in the early Christians. There was a divine testimony that they were Christ's. Elisha was a reflection of Elijah; so the early Christians reflected Christ. 2 Kings 4 enables us to understand this.

Ques. Is there a point of correspondence between the little maid and Gideon's three hundred men who lapped?

J.T. Well, there is.

Rem. What you have suggested seems to greatly

reduce the number, like Gideon's army, but it makes it effective. It is remarkable that the sons of the prophets should be passed by, and the testimony be found in the little maid.

J.T. God's intent is that recipients of the light are to be brought into accord with the vessel through whom the light has come. It is not the divine intent that men should be benefited by the gospel and retain their greatness in this world. They do, but it is not the divine intent. So Naaman has to come into correspondence with the little child; he had a great deal to go through before he came to it. Elisha was faithful, and he would insist on the word; he did not show himself to Naaman. The latter must go by the word, and the word says that he should wash in Jordan seven times. Christ has gone into death to glorify God in respect of sin, and I must go that way. God is not going to let me off. I am not to retain my worldly greatness; I have to go down with Him.

H.L.D. Does it suggest that Naaman had reached that in asking for the two mules' burden of earth?

J.T. I think he had reached the thought of God. The altar of earth is the acknowledgement of what we are.

Rem. He is no longer great in his own estimation.

J.T. Every one of us has to come to that. Elisha corresponds with the little maid's word. Naaman thought he would come out and lay his hand on the spot and call on his God. He had his idea as to how God should operate, but God would teach him that He has His own way of operating, and it is for man to submit if he is to be blessed.

L.D.B. The little maid had arrived at that. She said, "Would that my lord were before the prophet that is in Samaria!"

J.C.S. Would Romans 6 correspond in measure to this, as the way out of that greatness in which he stood -- closing the door on the greatness of man here?

J.T. Quite; that is the teaching of it. When he came up out of the waters of Jordan with his flesh as a little child's he would be reminded of the little girl. He would forget all about the king and the things connected with him; he would forget all that greatness, and he would consider himself so as to be on a level with the vessel the light had come through -- the little maid. He would now be material for God to take up and use.

J.C.S. It is very interesting, because it maintains the link of likeness. What is shown forth in testimony is reproductive of that kind of thing.

J.T. Yes, that is the principle with God. The vessel through whom the light comes to me is before me, and I correspond with that. It is not God's intent to enlighten men in this world and benefit them and allow them to continue on in their worldly greatness; it is not God's intent at all. He can never make any material out of a man like that; he is not material for the house of God until he comes down to a little child; he must obey the word. So Elisha gives the word and Naaman must obey it.

S.F. I thought of verse 9 of chapter 5: "So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot and stood at the door of the house of Elisha"; but the prophet does not go out to meet him.

J.T. I think that is very often the case. Men who would receive benefit from the gospel retain their greatness, and expect the servants of God to recognise them in it. But we must learn that this is not in keeping with the dignity of the testimony of God. Naaman was now before the vessel of this testimony, and he is told to wash in Jordan.

Ques. Would the thought of the little maid be found in the new name given to Saul of Tarsus?

J.T. Paul -- that is what he was, meaning small; evidently insignificant outwardly. It is very remarkable about Paul that he was the last mentioned in

the list of those who were in the assembly at Antioch; Acts 13:1. It shows he is not a brother who would set himself up in the presence of the king; he would be content to be in the lowest room, and wait till he is called up higher.

Ques. Would you say something about Elisha's message to Naaman to wash in Jordan: "Go and wash in Jordan seven times".

J.T. It is a question of the death of Christ; he has to go down and dip seven times; seven times is the spiritual perfection of it. There has to be a definite acceptance of the death of Christ; one has to go down into it. Baptism is this -- the end of any greatness I may have in this world. Then Romans 7 is the process that goes on in our souls, by which we learn experimentally what the flesh is. Christ is then known as Deliverer. It is by the Spirit that you get free practically from your state as seen in Romans 7.

J.C.S. So whatever a man might be socially, whatever status he has in this world, when he takes up baptism, all that is gone, is it not?

E.B.McC. It is "the obedience of faith". Romans 16:26.

J.T. It comes out in Romans 6. They had obeyed from the heart that form of teaching. It comes out in Naaman. You must obey the word. The servants were wise; they said, "If the prophet had bid thee do some great thing wouldest thou not have done it?" The prophet was not going to change his mind. Our salvation lies in obeying the word.

Rem. God is very sympathetic and compassionate. There is a passage in Jeremiah which brings out very beautifully a man going down. It is chapter Jeremiah 31:18: "I have indeed heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus: Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised as a bullock not trained: turn thou me and I shall be turned, for thou art Jehovah my God".

J.T. Quite. This very important principle of

going down into the water is greatly emphasised in Scripture. We had it yesterday: "Into which few, that is eight souls, were saved through water", 1 Peter 3:20. So in Jeremiah there is a remarkable passage in which the prophet is told to take his girdle and go to Euphrates and hide it in a hole in a rock; but it says, "Dip it not in water". Jeremiah 13:1. Then he is directed to go again, and the girdle is marred -- good for nothing. However near we may be to God outwardly -- as the people of Israel were His girdle about His loins -- unless we are dipped in water we are good for nothing. Many are outwardly very near -- actively engaged in the Lord's service, and yet in not accepting death they are ultimately good for nothing. We have to accept death; that is what Elisha insists on here. There is no change in the mind of God; the greatest man has to come down. There is only one way; in going down we accept the thing definitely. Thus Naaman's flesh comes again as the flesh of a little child. It is a new start -- born again. It is a new start; but more than that, he is cleansed.

Ques. Would it suggest resurrection -- the flesh of a little child?

J.T. I think it is what one is as cleansed. It refers to what we are spiritually now as accepting the death of Christ. I do not think this teaching goes beyond Romans, which prepares us for the assembly; it brings in the material for the assembly.

Ques. How does John 3 come in here?

J.T. It synchronises in the sense that it is a new start: "It is needful that ye should be born anew" John 3:7 is the thought.

E.B.McC. You come thus into the organisation of David. There is a state in which David has his mighty men -- not as great in the world, but like the little maid.

W.W. Would you say we see the evidence of a new start in the sensibilities that Naaman expressed?

J.T. That is what our attention has been called to: "Two mules' burden of earth". He has sensibilities now of what is due to God. So in Exodus 20:22 - 24 God says, "Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven ... an altar of earth shalt thou make unto me". That would be the acknowledgement of what we are before Him.

J.C.S. It is still Romans.

J.T. Quite; it does not go beyond Romans. It is remarkable how this word of the little maid works out. It exposes the whole world. The king of Syria, the worldly thoughts of Naaman, and the king of Israel are all exposed.

J.C.S. You want the testimony to go forth like that in Wellington.

J.T. Well, it is within the range of every one of us to bear witness to Christ. The privilege of this is indeed great.

PRAYER: CHARACTERISTIC OF THE PERFECT MAN (4)

Luke 22:39 - 46; Luke 23:34,39 - 43

J.T. We considered previously the Lord praying on the mount and the transfiguration that followed, which, it was thought, suggested a change in the believer as to progress in his soul. He takes on the heavenly colour, and is thus different -- marked off from ordinary religionists in this world. Then the furnishings in the local companies are in keeping with such a change, these furnishings being dependent on the Holy Spirit as given of "the Father who is of heaven", Luke 11:13 as it says.

This passage presents the Lord praying in relation to His sufferings. It is obvious that in our progress, as we are identified with Christ here, we come in for sufferings, so that we may learn from this passage how we are to go through and endure them. There is to be entire submission, as we see in the Lord, to the will of God. Peter, in his epistle, works out how believers come into suffering as under the government of God here. They are not accidental -- they are designed under the government of God; so that Jesus is said to be a model for us in that epistle, as we read: "Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously", 1 Peter 2:23.

J.C.S. So that you think, whilst the sufferings of the Lord Jesus here were unique, yet in them He affords a pattern for us in our sufferings of whatever nature they may be.

J.T. That is what I had in mind. This evangelist says, "He came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him. And when he was at the place he said unto them, Pray

that ye enter not into temptation. And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down and prayed", etc. Matthew and Mark tell us that He went to "Gethsemane", and John that He entered into "a garden", but Luke says He went to the "mount of Olives". I think the allusion is to the Spirit, for the position of the saints here involves that they are anointed by the Spirit, by the holy oil with which the tabernacle was anointed, which is, as you may say, the spirit of a suffering Christ. Hence in Acts 1 we are told that He showed Himself living after He had suffered. His sufferings open up to one's mind a good deal. As He showed Himself to them alive after having suffered they had before them a model of what should mark themselves. It is life out of death; but then it is life out of sufferings, and it is given unto us on behalf of Christ not only to believe but to suffer. So that the passage, I think, opens up to us much of what it is to suffer. The mount of Olives affords shelter at the outset, because it suggests the Spirit and immediate proximity to heaven.

R.J.W. Would you say that the believer, in taking character from the Lord Jesus, partakes of the nature of the acacia wood?

J.T. Yes, exactly; he has the power of endurance.

J.C.S. You mentioned the fact that we receive the spirit of a suffering Christ. Would the very fact that we receive the Spirit in that light involve suffering -- we must be prepared to suffer as having received that spirit?

J.T. Yes, I think so. The only compound with which the tabernacle was anointed was composed largely of myrrh; there were other ingredients, but myrrh is mentioned first.

Rem. Would you say -- having the end in view fortifies us for suffering? He showed Himself alive -- the suffering was passed.

J.T. Yes, it is One alive, as having suffered. The idea of suffering is different from the idea of dying, although He died; they go together. Still He showed Himself alive after He had suffered.

S.F. This would be a prominent feature in Christianity at the present time, would it not?

J.T. I think it is. From the very outset it was intended that the saints should suffer. Paul speaks of filling up "that which is behind of the tribulations of Christ in my flesh for his body, which is the assembly", Colossians 1:24. It would indicate that sufferings were to mark the saints, and Paul was zealous in this in so far as it lay with him. The idea should be filled out. Indeed, the Lord, in taking him up, had said, "I will show him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake", Acts 9:16. It was a part of his testimony.

S.F. So that the Lord Jesus is the model, and Paul becomes a great example to us.

J.T. That is the thought. We have, in one of like passions as ourselves, the continuation of the spirit of the suffering Christ, and it is "for his body's sake", Colossians 1:24 he says.

J.C.S. So that the sufferings the apostle endured in relation to what was of Christ here on earth are still continued, because the spirit of that suffering Man is still here.

G.H.C. In Psalm 45 we get the myrrh, aloes and cassia, referring to the Lord Jesus here.

E.B.McC. "The fellowship of his sufferings", Philippians 3:10. Paul says.

J.T. It is that we are privileged to come into these -- to have fellowship in His sufferings; and one would especially note the mount of Olives, because there is shelter there. I think the Spirit is in view, so that you are not at your own charges. In going through suffering you prove what the Spirit is -- you know what the Spirit is to you. It may be noted that

the altar was anointed seven times. It suggests intense suffering.

W.J.P. Would the oil suggest healing?

J.T. Well, I think there is superiority in the Spirit to the sufferings. You see how perfectly it appeared in Philippi. Paul and Silas were thrust into the inner prison. It seemed as if the jailor, in his zeal to inflict the severest punishment, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks; they were scourged -- the most excruciating physical suffering; and yet it says, at midnight they prayed, and in prayer they praised God. There you see the superiority to the sufferings, by the Spirit.

Ques. Would Stephen afford an illustration of that?

J.T. I believe he is the counterpart of Christ. The manner in which he went through shows a superiority in the sufferings in that he was able to act as priest -- to intercede for his murderers. It is affecting. Can we find anything more corresponding to the Lord on the cross than Stephen exhibits? He was able to do just what the Lord did. The Lord said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do"; Stephen says, "Lord, lay not this sin to their charge". Acts 7:60. He did not ask the Lord not to lay other sins to their charge, but not to lay that one. He was not resentful. I do not suppose Stephen would think of asking the Lord to remit the guilt of His own murder, but he did ask the Lord not to lay that one to their charge.

A.H.R. I was thinking, with regard to suffering, gladness and rejoicing flow out of it. Would you say He endured the cross for the joy that was set before Him; and we should be encouraged not to resent suffering, because gladness and blessing will follow?

J.T. Yes, indeed. "The joy that was set before him". Hebrews 12:2. We cannot go through sufferings without the

Spirit; we shall otherwise complain and resent them.

J.C.S. So that both in the case of Paul and Silas in the prison and in that of Stephen there was some correspondence with the anointed altar.

J.T. That is what I thought. You will remember the passage in the types, "Moses took the anointing oil, and anointed the tabernacle and all that was therein, and sanctified them. And he sprinkled thereof on the altar seven times, and anointed the altar and all his vessels", Leviticus 8:10,11. I think that calls attention to the need of the Spirit if we are to suffer. We have already dwelt on the need of the Spirit as coming out of heaven, as given of the Father for local conditions; but we need the Spirit particularly if we are to suffer as Christ suffered.

Rem. It is remarkable that oil should be the symbol used, because it is procured by the crushing of the olive.

R.T. Peter says, "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind". 1 Peter 4:1. How does that apply?

J.T. It refers back to the third chapter (1 Peter), in which he says that Christ suffered for us in the flesh. Now you take that on. One arms oneself with the light that one, as it were, suffered in Christ's sufferings. The sufferings were all there -- suffering in the flesh; it was for sins. He suffered for us, so that you have done with sin. The point there is that you do not have anything more to do with sin, because as suffering in the flesh you have done with that. It is a remarkable enforcement of the sufferings of Christ in their bearing on our everyday life. You are not to sin again -- that is the bearing of that.

W.J.P. What we have to do is to arm ourselves.

J.C.S. What you are speaking of now relates to the vicarious sufferings of Christ.

J.T. Yes. But that is not the point in Luke. We do not get the forsaking of God in Luke. It is

rather how He accepted suffering. Luke mentions that He went to the mount of Olives, because, I think, he alludes to the Spirit.

W.S. Do you think the mount of Olives would suggest the reserves we have in the Spirit for suffering?

J.T. I think it does.

J.C.S. Would you enlarge a little on the idea of the altar being anointed?

J.T. What has been called attention to is worthy of notice, because the pouring of the oil seven times on the altar is obviously to call attention to the spiritual power needed for the suffering that had to be endured; and so the Lord, in the endings of the gospels -- that is, in the corresponding passages of the three gospels -- is seen in suffering. He is seen in that way as the altar, and what impresses you is His wonderful endurance. Everything is accepted from the will of God. There is not the slightest evidence of any resentment -- all is accepted from God.

R.J.W. Would you enlarge a little on what you said, that Christ Himself is the altar? The scripture says that the altar is greater than that which is put on it.

J.T. Well, I think the dimensions of the altar show that it was a type of Christ as suffering. It was five cubits broad, with horns, and three cubits high, that is, there was weakness. Christ was crucified in weakness, but at the same time there was power. Three cubits high refers, I think, to the inherent power of life that was in Christ. The horns also denote power. The suffering thus was borne in perfect submission to the will of God, and yet in perfect dignity.

E.O. Peter says, in connection with reproach, "The spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you", 1 Peter 4:14.

J.T. That comes in. As you endure sufferings there is testimony. You can see how it shines out in

Christ on the cross. The glory is in the fact that He says, "Father, forgive them". It was in wonderful accord with the mind of God. So with Stephen, the glory shines in remarkable power in a man of like passions with ourselves. That he should go through all that suffering, and yet be like Christ was a great testimony. He says, "Lord, lay not this sin to their charge". Acts 7:60.

G.H.C. You were speaking about abundant reserves in the Spirit for suffering; would that be indicated by the Lord praying more earnestly as the pressure increased?

J.T. It would. Prayer is the attitude. We were remarking that Paul and Silas prayed, and in prayer they praised God, showing their superiority to what they were enduring. What wonderful support must have been poured into their souls from heaven at that hour! And that is what we may reckon on. So the Lord is setting us an example here in that He prayed three times.

J.C.S. Paul and Silas did that in the power of the Spirit who had come down from that One who had suffered, so He could identify Himself with their sufferings.

F.H. Could you help us as to the form the sufferings might take at the present time?

J.T. We have the statement: "All that will live godly in Christ Jesus" (i.e., the anointed Man) "shall suffer persecution", 2 Timothy 3:12. As He was anointed He came into suffering. He was carried into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. As though God would challenge all the devil's power; in the power of the anointing Jesus would go through for God's glory. When the Philistines heard that David was anointed, they sought him out; and again, in Psalm 2:2, it says, "The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed". Now if any

man will live godly in Christ Jesus he shall suffer persecution. You are coming in for persecution. Wherever it comes from, it will come, because Satan will not let us alone as having been anointed. Then there is the privilege: "Unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake". Philippians 1:29.

S.F. On that line there is heavenly support. An angel from heaven strengthened Him.

J.T. That was another point I had in my mind to call attention to, because the angel is distinct from the anointing. Angels represent what is providential -- what has reference rather to our bodies. The Spirit has reference to our souls -- to what we are inwardly. The angel mitigates. Hence the Lord says to Smyrna, "Ye shall have tribulation ten days". Revelation 2:10. It is a limited period. That was providential. The angel has to do with all providential things, and ministers to our bodies so that we should not succumb through physical pressure.

S.F. That is a very helpful distinction.

Ques. Would that touch the line of priesthood?

J.T. Well, no doubt. He comes in accord with the sympathies of Christ to support. Of course we may reckon on angelic help as He did here. In Matthew the angel has to do with public government, but in Hebrews it says they are "Sent out for service on account of those who shall inherit salvation", Hebrews 1:14. So that we may always reckon on angelic help in suffering.

A.H.R. Are there not two kinds of suffering here, the inward and the outward -- the suffering in the garden and the suffering on the cross?

J.T. Yes. The physical suffering had not yet begun. In fact all this is anticipative of what was coming; but the services of the angel ought to be well noted, because we may reckon on that, so that we are not tempted above that we are able. The

angel comes in to limit the thing. The Spirit carries you through, and you are like Christ in going through it; but there are limitations. We cannot endure as He endured, or Stephen, or Paul, so the Lord limits the trial to our measure. And I think the service of the angel is in that connection, as I have remarked about Smyrna -- the persecution would be, as it were, for ten days. It should not go past ten. That would be some angelic intervention to check the power that persecuted, and so it comes down to everyone of us, in detail, that the affliction goes just so far; it does not go beyond your power. The point is to go through it, whether long or short, like Christ; that is what God has in His mind.

W.J.P. There is a verse in Peter's epistle: "Kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation". 1 Peter 1:5. Is that a reference to the body or the soul? Would that imply angelic power?

J.T. It is the power of God through faith unto salvation -- the soul's salvation -- that Peter is speaking of there. He says also, "Wherein ye exult, for a little while at present, if needed, put to grief by various trials, that the proving of your faith, ... be found to praise and glory and honour in the revelation of Jesus Christ", 1 Peter 1:6,7. At present, if needed "we are put to grief by various trials". They come in for good, but are limited. The angel, I think, comes in for limitation.

E.C. Do you think there might be a suggestion here that the suffering might pass the limit of human endurance, but the angel extends the limit?

J.T. Well, it says, He "will not suffer you to be tempted above what ye are able", 1 Corinthians 10:13 and I think that is where the ministration of angels comes in, to limit the sufferings.

C.H.H. What do we learn from the Lord Jesus in the way He went through suffering? Is it that He

accepted it from God? He preferred God's will to being delivered from the suffering.

J.T. That is what comes out, I think. We are given His actual words elsewhere in this gospel. We are not told what He said in prayer. We are in John's gospel; we have the full prayer there recorded, but not in Luke. This, I think, is the first time we have His actual words, and it is to recognise the Father's will -- the will of God.

A.H.R. Is the angel the answer to the mount of Olives?

J.T. I think it is a collateral ministration. In our case the Spirit is one thing and the angel is another. My thought is that we should reckon on the ministration of angels in our sufferings, but go through in the power of the Spirit.

Ques. Why do we get the angel in connection with the releasing of Peter, while in the case of Paul and Silas there was no angel?

J.T. I think the angel is in the earthquake. Any physical interference or movement, I think, comes under the ministration of angels. The earthquake shook the foundations of the prison. In Peter's case the doors of the prison were opened and he was let out. There was no shaking of the prison, nor did the prisoners get any gain from what happened; whereas, in the case of Paul and Silas you feel there is a full answer to what we have here. It is what Luke would present -- the prisoners heard.

Rem. Paul and Silas prayed. By the Spirit they were enabled to pray; He comes in in that way; whereas it was not that with Peter.

J.T. Of course, we cannot tell definitely as to Peter. No doubt he prayed. We do know the assembly prayed for him, but the account indicates a state of unbelief, because they did not expect their answers. It was a weak situation; they were not looking for an answer to their prayers. That is a

humbling thing, that we should have prayer meetings without any expectation of answer to our prayers; whereas God had answered their prayers, and it was by angelic intervention. In the case of Paul and Silas there is a beautiful touch, in that the prisoners heard: I am sure there never had been such a time as that in a prison.

R.J.W. The other translation says, "the prisoners listened to them", Acts 16:25. They were attentive.

J.T. It was a marvellous turning into testimony of the power of the altar, the power of endurance in the service of Christ; the expression, as it were, of heaven in the interior of a dungeon; and when the jailor would have killed himself, a voice comes out of the prison -- Paul's voice -- "Do thyself no harm, for we are all here". Acts 16:28. It was a marvellous turning of suffering into testimony.

J.C.S. That must have been a very agreeable scene for heaven to look down on, and see the reproduction of what Jesus was here as the suffering One.

J.T. It was indeed a counterpart of it.

R.T. Can we view Paul in Philippians 4 as one who had been under the formation of the Spirit? The Spirit of Christ is seen in him; he can say, "To know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings". Philippians 3:10.

J.T. Philippians, amongst other things, sets out the sufferings of Christ. It emphasises the sufferings of Christ as part of Christianity. Philippians is like the tabernacle -- the anointing is there. The assembly at Philippi began in sufferings at the outset; it had its origin in those sufferings we have just been speaking of. It was the gateway into Europe; and it was of God that the testimony should go into Europe in accord with the tabernacle, because it was to be in Europe that the great features of the testimony could be developed, and it was in keeping with the mind of God that the light should come in through

these wonderful vessels at Philippi. The saints there had fellowship with the apostle in the gospel from the beginning -- "from the first day until now", Philippians 1:5.

Ques. Would you say that prayer gives us power, and fortifies us to endure?

J.T. It brings in the power of endurance -- the Spirit.

J.C.S. So that, while the support of the angel may come in an indirect way, it is the support of heaven for those who are prepared to suffer on the lines you have mentioned.

Rem. The stone's throw is always maintained -- "He was withdrawn from them about a stone's throw", Luke 22:41. He must always be pre-eminent.

C.H.H. Do you think formation comes through suffering?

J.T. No doubt. Then the imperial colour accompanies suffering: "If we suffer, we shall also reign". 2 Timothy 2:12. Purple was one of the colours in the tabernacle, so that I think the suffering of the present time corresponds to the reigning of the future.

M.P.M. At the first meeting you said that these incidents in connection with the Lord were constructive.

J.T. I think it is very clear that they are. They correspond with our spiritual progress. If we are to be witnesses for Christ here we must be prepared for suffering, and then the question is, how am I going though, and this passage shows us how; first by prayer, and then as actually in it you reflect Christ. He prayed for His murderers; and we shall not be wanting in recompense as following in His steps, because I believe the repentant thief was the recompense the Lord got at that time.

S.F. Do you think sufferings would bring about moral state in us for the testimony, so that we should be able to hold our ground? It is the way the

Lord Jesus has gone, and the apostle is an example.

L.D.B. We do not want to miss that allusion to the thief; if you would mention it again.

J.T. It seems to me very beautiful, as fitting in here. The blessed Lord had just expressed the glory. The glory shines: "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". It was the glory of God that there was a Man capable of expressing that in the midst of the most terrible suffering. There was, I believe, a recompense; it is in the thief saying, "Lord, remember me when thou comest in thy kingdom". What joy it must have been to the Lord that there should be one in the midst of that awful situation who discerned the light that shone in Him! The light of the glory shone there, and the thief came in for it.

W.J.P. Was that the gift of the Father?

J.T. Well, it seems as if it were -- a sort of recompense. It must have come about rapidly, for we are told in another gospel that both thieves reviled Him. The light of the glory must have shone into His soul as to the Royal Personage who hung by his side. He had light as to the Person of the Lord -- what He was as Man. "This man has done nothing amiss". How did he know that? He could not know it historically. He knew it by light. It is by light we know things divinely. We do not know divine things by history, but by light; the light comes into the soul, and that settles everything.

W.J.P. I thought that would be like the case of Peter -- the revelation of God.

J.T. The light shone. I have no doubt it was the light that shone in Christ at that moment; the glory shone there.

L.D.B. Alluding again to the recompense: the Lord, thinking of the Jews, says, "I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought", Isaiah 49:4. But in the thief He gained something

that would meet His heart -- compensation when He lost so much in connection with Israel.

Ques. Would that scripture apply, "Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies", Psalm 23:51 Would it be the Father strengthening, as it were, the heart of His Beloved One in such circumstances?

J.T. It appears so. We can, I think, somewhat enter into the thought of the Lord -- what it must have been to Him to have the thief with Him -- "To-day", He says, "shalt thou be with me in Paradise". He would have a companion there.

J.C.S. It lit up the dark surroundings for the Lord in the midst of suffering. The light that shone into the heart of the thief was a very great circumstance for the Lord in the midst of the darkness.

Ques. Would you say that God does not allow one moment's suffering unnecessarily? I was thinking of Paul and Silas. They prayed and sang praises to God. There was no murmuring, there was rejoicing; and His discipline, or whatever His dealings were, resulted in their answering to them.

J.T. Yes. Then they come in for bodily relief; in due time their very stripes were washed by the jailor.

R.J.W. The jailor was affected by the spirit he saw in them. It says he "washed them from their stripes", Acts 16:33.

J.C.S. Going back to your thought as to this being constructive in view of the assembly down here, would it be right to speak of the assembly being the anointed vessel, and that the divine thought is that the light should now shine out through that suffering vessel?

J.T. I think that is the divine thought; so that a martyr is a witness. The idea of martyrdom is witness. To be a witness one suffers: but then the

thing is to suffer like Christ, according to the anointing; the spirit of a suffering Christ.

L.D.B. In speaking of the angel, as you have mentioned it, would it be right to connect it with the passage, "Thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns", Psalm 22:21? I wondered whether there was interposition at that point.

J.T. The interposition of God for Christ was in resurrection. Christ was heard from the extreme point of suffering, Resurrection was the answer; and the next thing is, "I will declare thy name unto my brethren". Psalm 22:22. He was raised by the glory of the Father. The answer there was not angelic; it was the direct intervention of the Father Himself.

E.B.McC. I was thinking of the last chapter of John. Peter there refers to John, saying, "And what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me", John 21:21,22. The work had been done with John. The Spirit had had His way with him.

J.T. I think the Lord intimates to Peter, 'You are to be like Me at the end'. He says, "When thou wast young thou girdedst thyself, ... but when thou shalt be old ... another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not", John 21:18. That is resignation -- he would be in accord with Christ's death.

E.B.McC. He was perfectly prepared for it.

J.T. Peter really wished for martyrdom, and the Lord says, 'You are going to have it, and you are going to be like Me in it'.

D.B. As to the support of the Spirit and the way in which we take suffering, James says, "Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you. Be patient therefore, brethren". James 5:6,7.

J.T. The apostle says, "For thy sake we are killed all the day long. We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter". Romans 8:26.

E.B.McC. The apostles desired it; they rejoiced that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for the name of Christ.

J.C.S. Paul actually rejoiced in it.

H.L.D. It is referred to in Hebrews: they were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword, they wandered about in sheep-skins and in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented (of whom the world was not worthy). They got the support of the Spirit, I think, but evidently the angel did not come in for them.

THE LIFE OF JESUS AND LIFE IN THE SON

John 1:4; Genesis 40:9 - 13; Numbers 17:6 - 8; 2 Corinthians 1:18 - 22

I have it laid on me, I hope by the Lord, to speak a little word about life. I need not say it is a subject of wide bearing, whether we look at it in natural things, in the physical creation, or the spiritual realm. There is hardly a subject more extensive, so that one has only one or two features of it in one's mind to present, beginning with the passage in John, which gives us in a brief sentence the thought of all life. Life must have a source; it is not a development, as this passage shows. It came in perfect in Christ: "In him was life". It does not say here, 'In Him is life', although that of course is true; it is what was in Him, so that we have to trace backwards instead of forwards. If we are to understand life as presented here in perfection we are obliged to investigate backwards: "In him was life". We know that life is in Him. The life that we have by the Spirit on the principle of faith now and shall enjoy for ever is in Him, but we have the statement here, "In him was life". And so He has expressed it; and I had in mind to speak of the expression of it -- first, as He was here in the flesh, and then as He is, as risen from among the dead. No one can read the opening chapters of Genesis without being impressed with the thought of life, not only because it is essential to human existence here on earth, but because it brings in what pleases God.

Unless a thing pleases God it is of no moral value, and I have chosen this passage from Genesis 40 believing that it foreshadowed the expression of life in a flesh-and-blood condition, which pleased God -- a life that was for God. The chief baker, of whom I

did not read, presents what was not for God. It was primarily intended for God. The white bread in the baskets and the baked meats or victuals were for Pharaoh -- for God typically, but the birds of the air got them.

Now, that may seem a peculiar reference, but one is reminded of young persons starting out in life, as we speak, and the inquiry that comes into one's mind with regard to them is whether their lives are to be for God or for men; whether those sweetmeats on the top (for the best is on the top) are for God, or whether the birds of the air are going to have them. They are about in great numbers -- vultures, ready to snap up everything that might be for God. The Lord met a young man, as you will remember, and in His conversation with him He looked on him and He loved him. I suppose that the young man, in the energy and freshness of life, reminded the Lord of the divine thought. He would have had that young man; He desired to have him for God, but He did not have him. What was lovable in that young man went to the birds, from what Scripture tells us, for he went away from Jesus. Satan got that young man, obviously; he went away from Jesus.

So, as I said, the birds got the fine food the baker had on his head in the three baskets. I have no doubt he illustrates man as set up here, furnished with much intended to be for God, but Satan got him, and so he was hanged upon a tree; whereas the butler is, I believe, set forth to represent the Lord Jesus -- the life that expressed itself in Him as a Man in this world.

The vine is there, and the bud, the blossom, the cluster, and the grapes, and then the pressing -- all for God.

It was a 'life divine below', (Hymn 6) but not exactly a miraculous life, although of course we know His conception was miraculous, but that is not for the public. He was born as a babe, everything in the

life of Jesus was normal, but of course of its own kind. There was the vine, there was the bud, the blossom, and there were the grapes; and then, beloved (and let this sink into our hearts) there was the pressing of the grapes.

Such was the life that came under God's eye in the precious life of Jesus. There was nothing to call attention to in a public way any more than a vine in a vineyard. It was normal, perfectly normal, divinely normal; but Jesus was cast upon God, as we are told, from the very outset of His being as incarnate. This could not have been said about any other babe, although marvellous things are said about babes in the Old; Testament, and I have no doubt these marvellous things all had reference in type to Jesus. Jacob took hold of his brother's heel as a babe -- a remarkable thing; he would supplant Esau. In Jesus we have, from the very outset, the expression of dependence; that was never said of a babe. It was for God, who alone understood it. The outward effects must have been there; Scripture is silent as to that. But God knew the movement of the heart of that babe, and it was delightful to Him.

Then, as we are told, He grew in wisdom and stature. Think of that being said of Jesus, the Son of God! He grew in these things -- in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. What should mark every child born into this world, but was never found before, was there. As He is in the temple with the doctors, you see the perfection of maturity; He was both hearing, you will notice, and asking questions. In the prophets He says, "The Lord God hath given me the tongue of the learned". Isaiah 50:4. Marvellous words from Him! They are there to bring before us the perfection of His humanity. "He learned obedience", @Hebrews 5:8 we are told. Let us understand it. He is a real Man, and yet "God over all, blessed for ever". As John says. "In the beginning was the

Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". John 1:1. Being that, it was His to command, never to obey; but now His condition is changed, and He learns, for He says, "Mine ears hast thou digged". @@Psalm 40:6. He learned obedience.

Such was the perfection, the reality of the humanity of Christ. At the age of twelve He is in the midst of the doctors. He is not criticising; He is not asserting that He is God; He is not working miracles; He is simply "hearing them and asking them questions". Luke 2:46. An excellent model for us -- for young people particularly -- hearing and asking questions. The doctors "were astonished at his understanding and answers". Doubtless they were proud of their learning. Had they learned "morning by morning" to hear from God? Were they wont "to speak a word in season to him that is weary"? Isaiah 50:4. Here was One who was learning; He was hearing and asking questions, and His understanding and answers astonished those learned doctors. Think of what that must have been to God, as He looked down on these doctors, with this holy Boy of twelve in their midst! It was all humanly and yet divinely perfect. His parents thought He was in the company, but He was not; and they return to Jerusalem and find Him. There was a great difference between the mind of heaven and the mind of her who loved Him most on earth. "Thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing", Mary said, reproachfully. It was well they sorrowed, but He says, "Wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?" The light is beginning to shine. "Thy father", says Mary, "and I". He says, "my Father's business". Luke 2:48 - 49. What a word for Joseph! Was He about Joseph's business? He was indeed about to take up the tools, the plane and the saw, for He was to be a carpenter. He was about to serve His reputed father in the workshop. Wonderful fact for us! But did He refer to Joseph's business in the temple? No, beloved, it was His Father's

business, God's business. It was something for Joseph to think over; it was an opportunity for him to learn; doubtless he did; doubtless Mary did. But then He went down and was subject after that. The light had shone in that word for Mary and Joseph, and now He goes down and is subject to them. I can understand Him saying to Joseph, 'I am going to do business for you', for Joseph was His reputed father, and He did. "Is not this the carpenter?" Mark 6:3 it says. One is moved as one thinks of the Son of God, the Lord of Glory, the Creator and Upholder of everything in the universe, taking a plane, or a saw, or a chisel, and working. These are facts of Scripture, and they are to be taken into our hearts, that He was a real Man; and whilst here about His Father's business, yet He worked with His reputed father, Joseph, as a carpenter. Then the veil drops in His wonderful history for eighteen years. What happened in those eighteen years we might well think over. I mean we might read, as we are entitled to by the Spirit, between the lines. What a life it must have been as He toiled as a carpenter! He had grown up before God "as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground", Isaiah 53:2 full of sap, more than in all the cedars. The cedars of Lebanon are full of sap. "In him was life"; life was there. In that outward lowliness and obscurity, life was there. And now as they were all baptised He was baptised, the last, and the heavens proclaimed Him. The heavens proclaimed their estimate of all that He is. He was the "Vine". There were the buds, the blossom, and the cluster, as I said, and the grapes; everything was normal; they were all there in the life of Jesus. Let us understand it. The butler pressed the grapes into "Pharaoh's cup". The Lord Jesus, in all this, thought of God, the cup was Pharaoh's cup. As I may say, He held the cup in

His hand, and all His precious life was, as it were, poured into it for God. It was for God, and in His death it was pressed -- that precious life was pressed out of Him, so to speak.

Those drops of sweat as of blood that flowed from Him in Gethsemane were precious to God. They were the expression of a Man's exercise as under the pressure of Satan -- Satan bringing death to bear upon Him. Satan had come back with all his power, and would have pressed upon Him the weight of death, which was in the cup the Father was giving to Him. He was going to drink that; but, as I might say, He had the cup in His hand, and that holy precious life of His was to be poured out into it; it was for God. I suppose Jesus was never more precious, if one may use comparisons; He was never more precious than when He said, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" It was infinite perfection in Man, and Man bearing the full weight of divine wrath. It was pressed out there for God. Who can speak adequately of it? But it is for us to feed upon.

Well now, I wanted to go on to the passage in Numbers, because it gives us another view of life. This time it is a question of combating man's will; that is not what the vine refers to. It is now a question of combating the will of man as risen up in opposition to God in the band of Korah. We are beset, dear brethren, all round with this will of man; men by training and education asserting a right to priesthood because they are Levites. There are thousands and thousands of men in the 'cloth' in Christendom who claim to be Levites, and claim priesthood because they are Levites, and they have to be tested; they have to be met. It is not so much what the life is for God, but what it is in testimony against evil. Hence there are twelve rods, representing all, we might say; and they are laid up before the

Lord. It says, "Aaron's rod was among them". It is a challenge, you see, that Aaron's rod has no advantage.

Now we have not what is normal, as I have been dwelling on, but what is, I might say, miraculous; a bare rod or staff bears fruit overnight. The wonderful fact is that the Son of God has lain in death, as it says, "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth". @Matthew 12:40. Aaron's rod was among them -- among the others; the Son of God was among the dead. He actually died, and was buried. What a time of exercise Moses and Aaron must have had during the night! In the morning Aaron's rod had budded, bloomed blossoms, and ripened almonds. God had dealt effectively with the spirit of rebellion in the swallowing up of these wicked men who had rebelled against their leaders. Yet the flesh was there, and they would be concerned as awaiting the result of the test. The disciples of Jesus also had deep exercise as He lay in death. But the answer was to come, and the answer was in the Son of God declaring Himself. He is "declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection". Romans 1:4. He is known thus to faith.

I want you to particularly follow what I am saying in this, because it is the secret of withstanding the will of man in religious things. John's gospel comes in to establish our souls in the faith of the Son of God. It is a question of life, but it is life on the principle of faith. So John's gospel is that His disciples might believe on Him. They were disciples before, but they needed to be established in the light of the Son of God. Hence John says, "This beginning of signs did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested his glory, and his disciples believed on him". Then at the end, after all the signs but one are recorded, he says, "Many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book", John 20:30.

There was abundance more of evidence if necessary, but there was nothing more needed for faith. All you want is a witness, and John's signs afforded adequate witness of the resurrection. So he says, "These are written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name". John 20:31.

What I am speaking about is the secret of contending with the will of the flesh in religious things. How can we withstand it? Only by the faith of the Son of God. "Who is he that overcometh the world but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God". 1 John 5:5. God would have that light in our souls. We hold life now in His name, but then we get the evidence of it while here. It was a dry stick laid among the others. It had "budded". I was speaking of this as miraculous -- it is miraculous. I suppose the Lord's resurrection and appearance to His disciples was the greatest sign. Peter, John and Mary had gone to the sepulchre and found it empty -- Peter went into the sepulchre, and he saw the linen clothes, "and the napkin that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself". John 20:7. There was unquestionable evidence that the Son of God had risen. Everything was in order, there was not a struggle, for as the Son of God enters into the conflict with death there can be only one result. "What ailed thee, O thou sea, that thou fleddest? Thou Jordan, that thou wast driven back?" Psalm 114:5. Death was to be out of sight as the feet of the priests touched the waters, although Jordan overflowed its banks. So John says, "This is the disciple which testifieth of these things; ... and we know that his testimony is true". John 21:24. We know his testimony is true. It was a miracle, it was the Son of God asserting His power. He is declared to be the Son of God with power by resurrection from among the dead. So that now we have life in another form: it is not

now a vine, it is now an almond. We know from the book of Jeremiah what the almond signifies. God says, "I am watchful over my word to perform it". Jeremiah 1:12. It we want things finally effected it must be on this line, not on the life of Jesus on earth. It is the life of the Son of God now as He is risen from among the dead. So it says in verse 8, "It came to pass that on the morrow ... behold the rod of Aaron, for the house of Levi, was budded". Now it is a life established by a miracle, but it is a life perfect in its own order. Well, I dwell on this in both cases. In regard to the vine, we have the bud, we have the blossom, and the cluster, and the bunch of grapes. I mention in connection with this, with the start of budding, that young brethren and sisters must be on their guard against taking short cuts in the things of God. We must all be on our guard against it, things must be on the principle of the bud, the blossom and the fruit. They must be in that order. The idea of being ripe is a great thing for God. But I want now, in closing, to dwell on the almond, because it is in the life of Christ as He is now that you get finality. According to Jeremiah, the almond signifies that God is watchful over His word to perform it, and I give you the Scripture which I think confirms this in a remarkable way. It is where Paul says he was "an apostle according to the promise of life". 2 Timothy 1:1. This appears in 2 Timothy, which epistle contemplates the breakdown of the church. God had promised life, and had brought it into effect. Paul was apostle in this connection. So the almond is brought out; it budded, it blossomed, and the ripened almonds were there, for the rebels. You cannot answer these rebels with mere human ability or learning; you can only answer them effectively by life, the life that is in Christ. It is a life that is outside the range of man. Jannes and Jambres

in Egypt of old said, "This is the finger of God". Exodus 8:19. Here is something they cannot touch, they cannot imitate it, it is beyond them; hence it is victory. So that God proceeds effectively to perform His word; He says, I am watchful over it to perform it. He has now, in a Man in resurrection, the life He has promised, and that Man has gone up into heaven, and given us the Spirit that we might "know".

John writes, "That ye may know that ye have eternal life". 1 John 5:13. The gospel of John is, "That ye might believe", John 20:31 and as believing have it. But the epistle is, "that ye may know that ye have" 1 John 5:13 it; and knowing that we have it makes us victorious. No one can overcome us. The most learned, the most able, after the flesh, cannot stand before a man who knows that he has everlasting life. John says, "The Son of God has come"; 1 John 5:20 we know He has come, and it is "by water and blood". 1 John 5:6. It is not the incarnation in the epistle of John. When he says He has come, it is by death, the means of cleansing, so that we should have eternal life. He is now risen, and has given us an understanding.

God would have us here on the line of the almond. Whether it be what He will do for my own soul, or whether it be what He will do through me, I can rely on the faithfulness of God. He has the life now that is irresistible -- it is supreme. It is established in resurrection, it is life in the Son of God.

I read in the epistle to the Corinthians to see how God is now working out His purpose on this line. They insinuated that the great apostle was using lightness -- prevaricating. No, he says, "the Son of God, ... who was preached among you by us ... was not yea and nay". The Son of God is not yea and nay, "but yea is", he says, "in him". He is risen from the dead; it is the Son of God. Paul says, "we preached him", and it is "yea" that is "in him", "and Amen". The "yea" is the assertion of the will of God, and

the "Amen" is the complete answer to it subjectively, as I apprehend. So that He has watched over His word to perform it. The apostle says, "He that establishes us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God". God is doing that. "Who also hath sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts".

I only refer to that so that we might see in this life the almond, for the purpose of God is yea and amen in Christ. He is working it out in detail, and I want everyone, myself included, to lay hold of the thought of the almond. It is a life established on miracle, and it is supreme over every other power. God is watching over every one of us to perform His word in regard to us, and then to use us. There is not one of us that God would not use on the principle of this life, but not on any other. It is on the principle of the almond that God is working out His purpose in us and through us; so that, "All the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us".

RUN, SPEAK TO THIS YOUNG MAN

Matthew 19:16 - 22; 1 Samuel 30:11 - 16; Zechariah 2:1 - 5

In purposing to preach the gospel from these scriptures, I have in view, specially, young ones -- young men and young women. I have selected these scriptures because they refer to young people. In each of them a young man is mentioned. Young men are in great demand, and in no quarter are they in greater demand than in heaven. You will remember how the great vessel through whom the light of heaven came to us -- Paul -- is first introduced in the Scriptures as a young man. He is introduced as one who witnessed the death of the martyr Stephen. Not only was he a witness of that crime, but he was consenting to it. In Acts 7 it is said, "the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul". Acts 7:58. In the next chapter it is said that Saul was consenting to his death; and in speaking to King Agrippa later he admits fully that he held the clothes of those who killed the Lord's martyr Stephen. Then when any of the saints were arraigned for judgment he gave his "vote" against them.

Such is the early introduction of the great vessel through whom the light of God came into the Gentile world, and I have no doubt that these facts are recorded in order that throughout the gospel period any young ones who may be opposed to the Lord -- and, as opposed to the Lord, opposed to His people -- may see that even for them salvation is available. Saul says he was an insolent, overbearing man; so that if there are any here who have been hitherto in any way opposed to the Lord and to His people there is salvation even for you. The Lord would say to you, as He said to that young man as he was found in bitter hostility to Him and to His people,

"Why persecutest thou me?" Acts 9:4. And not only would He raise that question, which is for you to answer in the secret of your soul, but He would say to you, "It is hard for thee", Acts 9:5. You have a hard time of it.

It may be that your parents are Christians, and some of your brothers and sisters, and you have a hard time of it, for in the secret of your soul you know they are right. I know whereof I speak. In the secret of your soul you know well that your parents are right. They have accepted the gospel; they have profited by the gospel; they are enjoying it, and you know they are enjoying it; so that it is hard for you. Instead of resenting your attitude, or reproving you, we would, in the spirit of Christ, express our feelings, that yours is a hard way. Whatever your exterior, yours is a hard, difficult path, and the Lord would relieve you as He did Saul. But then it may be there are those here who are not outwardly opposed. This young man in Matthew 19 comes to the Lord, and instead of using language of opposition, he says, "Good Master". You have nothing to say against the Lord; your thought is that you should maintain outward respectability in your religion. You do not wish to be regarded as an infidel. You speak of the Lord Jesus, in terms, it may be, of respect, and you would like to get some benefit from Him. You see that benefit from Him is available. Indeed, what we call the civilised world has become such through Christ. You may not think so. The knowledge of Christ, as men take it up, has a certain benefit in their account. Christianity, as it is outwardly regarded, is an asset in this world. No one can deny that the nations that have accepted Christ are far better off commercially and socially than those who have not. It is well worth their while to pretend to honour Christ.

So with this young man; and so, it may be, with

someone here. You are not opposed to Christ; you see He is a benefactor in this world. You are not thinking of your eternal welfare at all; you are thinking of enjoying what you have. It may be a good position, a loving wife and family, or possessions and friends. You wish to enjoy all these things, and you see that Christ can help you; that it is to your advantage to be on favourable terms, as one may say, with Him and with His people. But that is very nauseous to Christ. He has no interest in it. He did not come into this world to improve it. He did not come to make people more comfortable in their domestic affairs, although that flows from true Christianity. He came into this world, as Paul says, to save sinners -- to save them. So He has no interest at all in your proposal.

Hence He meets this young man on his own ground. The young man wishes to live -- to have eternal life. He says not a word about his sins; not a word about having to meet God after death. "Good Master", he says, "what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?" And the Lord meets him on his own ground, and gives him plenty to do; for if men in this world seek to benefit by Christ, He is not going to let them off. Christendom is not going to be let off easily. If they have undertaken to settle matters with God on the line of doing, then they have to reckon with God on the line of doing; and God keeps books, so that He may have written down accurately all their doings.

The Lord does not go into details with this young man. He could easily have pointed out that in no case had he kept all. When the time comes we shall see that God is not disposed to let Christendom off because Christ has been outwardly owned. In it despite has been done to the Spirit of grace, and the grace of God has been turned into lasciviousness. Men have placed themselves on the line of doing, and God will take them up on that line. They will have

to say to Him on that ground. The books were opened, and the dead were judged according to their works. This young man doubtless shall appear in that day, and then the Lord will go into details with him. He shall find that matters have been analysed in the books, and his assumption that everything in the law has been done and kept shall be tested.

In the meanwhile, as he pretends to have done everything, the Lord says, "Sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven; and come and follow me". The Lord is not going to accommodate you if you are just seeking to enjoy what you have here. He says, If you are on that line, the end of it is, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and come follow Me, and you shall have treasure in heaven. Inside these gracious words of Christ one may find the gospel wrapped up, for if he were to find treasure in heaven, it could be only on the ground of the death and resurrection of Christ. But instead of this the young man, having great possessions, turned away sorrowfully. He turned away without eternal life -- without any hope of it, and without hope of treasure in heaven.

Now look, young man or young woman, tonight, are you prepared to take on this responsibility? This passage is not intended to put you on the line of doing. It is intended to put you entirely out of court, as you are quite unable to do anything. God, as it were, binds men's hands and shuts their mouths so that they might know that they can do nothing. This passage, therefore, was not intended to convey that the gospel in any sense is on the line of doing. The passage is intended to shut you out entirely as on that line. But the Lord is there with His treasure in heaven for you. The young man went away. What are you going to do about this matter? In a few moments we shall all be dispersed, and some of you here tonight will be placed under a new obligation,

for Christ is once more presented to you as the only Saviour. You will be put under a new obligation as to what you are going to do. Are you going to prefer your possessions to Christ and to eternal salvation?

Well now, from the chapter in 1 Samuel, I want to show you a young man of a very different type. He had no possessions. He is found in the field. It was well for him, as he confessed, that he had fallen sick. It may be that in this company there are those of this type. You have fallen sick; sick, it may be, of yourself, sick of this world. This young man confesses himself to be a young man of Egypt. In his day he would have been a young man of the world. He would go in for all the sports of his neighbourhood. He would be aspiring to excel in these matters. He would seek to shine in society in so far as he could. He was a young man of Egypt, and all these things go with such. Egyptian fathers and mothers train up their children for Egypt. They school them, and set before them the one object -- to become something in this world. He confesses this; he confesses that he was a young man of Egypt.

Be true to yourselves, young people here, and true to God, and admit that your lives have been spent in the world and for the world; that you have been neglectful of God, and of Christ, and of the gospel; that you have been regarding your eternal welfare as a matter of naught. You have been bartering your heritage, like Esau, for a mess of pottage. That is what you have been doing. It is an immense thing to learn to confess. The man I am speaking of confesses that he is a young man of Egypt, and that he was a servant of an Amalekite. An Amalekite is a man that deals in the flesh -- in what the flesh lives in, and Satan works through that; so that young men and young women are held in slavery. He admits it: but he is found in the field. He has turned sick.

Many of us know what this means. He has turned sick, and so he has been neglected; he has been cast off.

As soon as you become exercised and begin to get sick of things the world has no more use for you. Happy for you if it is so -- if your old friends and companions are beginning to cast you off. You begin to talk about God and Christ. You have misgivings about what you have been engaged in; you are coming to see there is nothing in it, and they quickly let you go. You are of no value now; for if you are not wholehearted in a thing what use are you? You just spoil it. The world is not interested in those who are concerned about eternal things. It is well when the light of God begins to agitate your mind and conscience so that it is so.

This young man was left in the field sick; but they brought him to David. That is what we are here for tonight. We are not here to preach a sermon simply. If this meeting has any end in view it is to bring souls to Christ. They brought this man to David. Our David is the theme of the gospel. We know what our David has done. He has slain His Goliath. He has entered into death, and has destroyed him that had the power of death. He has dealt effectively with all that was against us. Indeed, Christ has taken on all the liabilities of man, being a Man; and now in heaven He has bread and water -- what man needs. He has effected propitiation. He has propitiated God in regard to our guilt. He is our propitiation. As John says, "He is the propitiation for our sins, and ... also for the whole world". 1 John 2:2. He is the propitiation for the whole world, so that He has disposed of our guilt.

The wonderful declaration of the gospel is forgiveness for all. Repentance and remission of sins are preached in His name among all the nations. But He has more even than these things. This young man

needed food. He needed bread and he needed water; and they gave him bread and made him drink water. Christ is all this for you. This young man was left. What hope was there for him? None. But they brought him to David. Our desire tonight is to bring you to Christ. He has the bread. "The bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world", John 6:51. Think how far-reaching it is! "Whoso eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life", John 6:54.

Then it says, "They gave him a piece of a cake of figs and two clusters of raisins". There is a great deal more that Christians have than you have any idea of; for there is not only ordinary support proposed in the bread and the water, but there is the sweetness of the fig. There is that sweetness that comes in in the gift of the Spirit. What God proposes is to give you His Spirit; as it says in the Acts. All that obey Christ receive the Holy Spirit. He gives the Holy Spirit to those that obey Him. So that there is not only the water for refreshment, but there is the sweetness of the love of God brought into our hearts -- shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given to us. Then the raisins, I suppose, point to that which revives and refreshes us, so that the believer is set up in life. This is the proposal of the gospel. They brought him to David, and this is the result.

But is that all? He is now under David's command and direction; in David's service instead of that of the Amalekite. He has David for a master; and oh! what a master he was. I may say in passing that David has no idlers in his service. There are a great many idlers who profess to belong to David. David, I suppose, was the greatest organiser. I think he stands out as the greatest organiser, taking up the most varied and diverse materials, and organising them into the most extraordinary army that ever

fought. The idea of an idler is foreign to David and his regime; and I say to Christians that directly you are made to live you are enrolled.

This young man is useful immediately. He knows where his previous master is and his army. You can tell another your experience, and you can help him. It is not a question of gift. It is a question of conveying to others your own experience, and in that way you will be of great service to the Lord. You may be used in delivering others. David does not revive this young man and send him away. Did he do so he might fall away to the Amalekite again. There are those who speak about evangelising, who send their converts hither and thither, like the ostrich which lays its eggs in the sand and forgets that the foot may crush them, as Job says. That is not evangelising. Evangelising is to bring a soul under the direction of Christ so that he is in His service. Otherwise you are left to drift into the world, and some beast, so to speak, comes and crushes your life out. See @Job 39:13 - 16. The ostrich has no regard for its offspring. This young man came into the service of David. I say that for every Christian here.

Now we come to the passage in Zechariah, where we see another young man. These young men, indeed, may be set out as a series. The first has gone off having no hope of anything -- no hope of life now or in the future. He has gone away sorrowful because he has possessions. He is not an opposer of Christ outwardly, but he has gone away from Christ. The second is taken up and brought to David and is made to live, and he is in David's service, under David's tuition. Jerusalem would come into his mind, for you remember that when David slew the giant he took his head to Jerusalem. Jerusalem is in his mind; it was the city of the great King. We cannot be under the influence and tuition of Christ without thinking of what is in His mind. The nearer you get

to the Lord -- the more you discover what is in His mind. Jerusalem was in David's mind. I need not go into details. Those of us who are Christians and read our Bibles know how important Jerusalem was in David's regime. It was his city, the city of the great King.

This young man, as he is called, is interested in Jerusalem. It suggests progress. As a young man is brought under the influence of Christ he begins to think of Christ, and of Christ's interests, and they are very wide. You find here in Zechariah 2 a man with a measuring line, and a young man wants to know what he has that for. What is it for? It is to measure Jerusalem. Did you ever think of that? In order to pray aright you have to learn the extent of Jerusalem. It is the chief interest of God on the earth. I mean His saints today, the assembly; and the assembly is composed of all saints. Every truth sent of God belongs to the assembly, and the scripture says, "The Lord knoweth them that are his", 2 Timothy 2:19. He knows the length and breadth of Jerusalem, and He wants you to know it.

Think of the privilege, dear brethren, of being brought into accord with His mind! The man with the measuring line says, "To measure Jerusalem". "Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof". Are you interested? It may be that New Zealand is the extent of your Jerusalem. It is well if you love the saints in this Dominion, but there are many others. The more you love the Lord the more you appreciate the extent of His possessions on this earth. You think with Him. If you think with Him, you pray; and so this young man wants to know, and the answer is, "to measure Jerusalem". Then he says, "Behold, the angel that talked with me went forth, and another angel went out to meet him". It is as much

as to say, the first angel did not give him all the information that he could have given.

God is bent on instructing us in full measure, that we might know the length and breadth and the height and depth; and so as the one angel departs another comes and says, "Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein". It is as if the young man, being attentive to heaven, moves, so that he should at once receive full information. You see there is no lack with God. If you wish the information you will get it. If you are interested in the full extent of the purpose of God He will give you the light about it. There is no excuse at all for any of us being defective in divine intelligence, for God is ready to give it to us. "Run", He says, "and speak to this young man"; not now to tell him the length and breadth, but that it should be full of men; as it says, "Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein".

The light of the purpose of God keeps us from despondency. Many of us become despondent. We think things are so small. But we must be with God, as one has been seeing lately in regard to Noah. He had eight souls. "Wherein few", says Peter, "that is, eight souls were saved by water". 1 Peter 3:20. That is how salvation comes, and therefore there are not many. It is by water. That is to say, salvation is by death, and hence the few; but they are the few of privilege. Do not forget that. Think of the antediluvian world, and picture in your mind all the hills and mountains in the world in those days as the flood rises and rises, and of those poor people screaming for safety -- for salvation, and there is no salvation; and the ark rises on the breast of the flood with the eight souls in it who had the truth. It is the few of privilege; and so it is today. If you are a Christian in the ark you belong to the few of privilege.

Peter writes that to the Christians in his day, so that they might see the great advantage they had. It says, "Are there few that be saved?" Well, apparently there were few. If you think of the millions of inhabitants of this earth at the present time, Christians are in the minority, but it is the minority of privilege. But then, as I said, the purpose of God contemplates not few but many: "Ten thousand times ten thousand and thousands of thousands". Revelation 5:5. That is the purpose of God. So that Jerusalem is to be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein. There is no need of walls in that city with multitudes of men and cattle.

Then follows, "I will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her". That, I apprehend, is a present word. What need we fear? "I will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her". This is a word for the young man who is interested, who is a believer in Christ, and has come under the influence and tuition of Christ. The whole purpose of God is opened up to him, so that he has victory every day. He is not concerned about the fewness. He has the mind of God as to the ultimate result, and then it shall not be few, but many.

Pages 139 - 260 "Divine appearings". Brisbane and Newcastle, 1925 (Volume 72).

THE SUFFERING ONE

Psalm 105:7 - 23; 2 Corinthians 4:7 - 12

I had in mind to speak about the life of Jesus, how it constitutes a testimony to God, what it was as in Him, and how it works out in us. For it is a divine thought that His life, so precious under God's eye, should not cease with the Lord's death. It was laid down, but it is to be continued, and was continued, so to speak, in Peter and John, who "stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life", Acts 5:20 that is, the life which was in Jesus. I selected this passage in the Psalms as presenting Joseph to us, who, as we all know, is one of the most striking types of the Lord Jesus that the Old Testament affords. As he first appears at his birth, Jacob, his father, evidently recognised the light involved in his advent, so he set to work to prepare to move out of the land of Mesopotamia, and return to the land of his fathers -- to Canaan. We have, therefore, a clear intimation that Joseph typifies the Lord, for His coming into the world involved light for others. Even at His birth the shepherds who fed their flocks by night could see light, and so, as Jacob returns to Canaan and meets his brother, Esau, his wives and children were called to pass before Esau, and Joseph is placed before his mother; Genesis 33:7. He passes before Esau and before his mother, a clear intimation again of a type of Christ, for, in Matthew 2:11, the little Child is placed before His mother, "That in all things he might have the pre-eminence", Colossians 1:18 and even as to His mother, she has to take a second place to Christ. So, at the age of seventeen, Joseph is again before us as one who recoiled at the evil discourse of

his brethren. He was with the sons of Bilhah and Zilpah, as we are told, and brought unto his father their evil report. There, again, we have a type of Christ who is "holy, harmless, undefiled, separated from sinners". Hebrews 7:26. Then he is said to be loved by his father more than all his brethren. Again we have a type of Christ, and he is distinguished as Christ was at the outset of His path of ministry.

Joseph had a vest of many colours, reminding us of the variety of glory that shone, and shines, in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father loving to honour Him. And then we have the suffering Joseph; he is hated of his brethren, but in his sufferings -- and this is what I want to impress upon all -- he receives light, that is to say, it was a clear intimation of the end at the beginning. The end is glory, universal dominion, but in between there are the fetters for the feet and iron for the soul. It is said, "Until the time when what he said came about".

I wish particularly to dwell upon what he said. It was not his word exactly; it was what he saw in his dreams. He had two dreams, as you remember, and I dwell upon them so that we may be established in our souls, as in a corresponding position we have the light to begin with, which intimates the end -- the great terminus to which the path of faith leads -- and so "Until the time when what he said came about: the word of Jehovah tried him". And what did he say, beloved? "Behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and lo, my sheaf arose and also stood upright". Genesis 37:7. What light there was in that! His sheaf stood up. The corn cut down and bound into a sheaf, and it stands up. No one of us is of any value in the testimony until we understand that dream, what it is to stand up. Until we arrive at a time in our souls when we know what it is to stand upright by power which we have received from God, by the Spirit -- the power by which He raised up

Christ from the dead -- we shall not be effective in the testimony, nor shall we be prepared to suffer.

And so the first light that Joseph has is, when he saw his sheaf stand up. It is a type of the resurrection of Christ.

We believe that in becoming a Man, the Lord intended to die. "For this cause", He says, "came I into the world". John 18:37. For what cause -- to glorify the Father's name, and that involved death. "Now", He says, "is my soul troubled". John 12:27. Death was before Him in its reality. He knew what it meant. He had just been to the grave of Lazarus, and He groaned at that grave, for He knew what power held the loved one there, but He had power, a greater power, and He raised him. And after that He says, "Now is my soul troubled". He had to face death in all its power. He knew what was in it, and so He looks up to heaven and He says, "Father, glorify thy name", and the answer comes immediately, "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again". John 12:28. Then He says, "Father, save me from this hour", and He adds, "but for this cause came I unto this hour". John 12:27. It was the hour of death; He came to die. But then, in dying He had in His soul the perfect knowledge of resurrection. "Thou wilt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption", and again, "Thou wilt show me the path of life; in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand are pleasures for evermore". @Psalm 16:10,11. He saw right on to the end, nevertheless, He came to die. It was very real to Him, but then, as I said before, what Joseph saw at the beginning, was that the sheaf stood up. Remarkable testimony! He saw the single sheaf stand up, and then he says, "Behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf". Genesis 37:7. It is the superiority of a Man risen. The risen Man is superior to all other men. Who can contend with a risen Man? No one! and the believer has to understand the significance of a sheaf standing up, and of

other sheaves making obeisance to that sheaf. It is Christ risen. He sees beyond the path of suffering, and before the iron entered into His soul, He saw the end and the power of resurrection.

Again, he dreams another dream. "Behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me". Genesis 37:9. Now we are on heavenly ground; not only is He risen from the dead, but He sees the position in heaven, and all heavenly authorities and powers made subject unto Him.

This, which Joseph said, stands out at the outset of his pathway. Then he is sold as a bondman to the Egyptian, and it is said, His feet were fettered, and the iron entered into his soul, typical of the sufferings of Christ. Between what he said of his dreams and the time when what he said came about, they afflicted his feet with fetters, and the iron came into his soul, and the word of Jehovah tried him. How perfectly he answers to the test! The word of the Lord tried him, and in that trial the light of Jesus shines for heaven and for earth.

His life was a continual offering, it was the meat offering. The meat offering, beloved, was for others, and it was for God. The priests had their part in it; it was for others, and that is what I want to dwell upon; "That they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them and rose again". 2 Corinthians 5:15. As Paul says, "Death works in us, but life in you". Paul's life was a sacrifice. It was laid down for the brethren. It was for Christ. It was for God. He was "poured out" we are told.

So in the dungeon, the butler and the baker come to Joseph, and as the butler tells his vision, he says, "I saw a vine". Genesis 40:9. It is a picture of Christ. The butler had no light, but the Spirit of God knew about it. The Spirit of God saw the life of Jesus, and the light of that life shone in the dark Egyptian dungeon in which Joseph was imprisoned. Think of the backward

throw of the light. Even as Peter says, "In which also going, he preached to the spirits which are in prison, heretofore disobedient, when the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah"; 1 Peter 3:20 and so the Spirit of God throws back the light of the life of Jesus into that dark Egyptian dungeon into the soul of Joseph. Indeed, Joseph was himself working out that life. It was the Spirit of Christ in him, and, as holding his vessel for God, he was suffering. He was not only a type, but there was the substance there, for the Spirit of Christ was in him, the Spirit of a suffering Christ, and the life of Jesus was wrought out in that dungeon. He was prepared to serve others. Indeed, he was a man sent before his brethren to preserve them, a posterity upon the earth. And so the butler says, "In my dream behold a vine was before me; and in the vine were three branches; and it was as though it budded, and her blossoms shot forth; and the clusters thereof brought forth ripe grapes". Genesis 40:9,10. We have portrayed before us the beautiful life of Jesus. First the bud -- for things were normal. It is not a question of miracle, but what is normal in manhood, what is divinely normal, what is perfect. There is the bud and the blossom, and the cluster, and the ripe grapes. All that was in the life of Jesus under the eye of God. Others may not have seen it, even His mother did not appreciate it, but God looked upon the bud, and it is said, "I was cast upon thee from the womb; thou art my God from my mother's belly", @Psalm 22:10. It could not be said of any other babe that there was the principle of dependence upon God from the very outset of his being. How delightful that was to God; as the race of mankind were utterly indifferent to God's claims. There was a Babe, a Babe in dependence.

Think of the kind of life that came under the eye of God in that bud. And then the blossom -- how, at the age of twelve there was a blossom, and the cluster,

and finally, the fully developed One, the Man, Christ Jesus -- the Holy Spirit coming down, as Luke presents it, in bodily form, showing that the totality of the Spirit was here. It was the Holy Spirit in Person, in its entirety, which could never be said of any other man. But then these ripe grapes were taken and pressed into Pharaoh's cup. The precious results of the press, not, indeed, an ordinary wine press, but the fingers. It was the personal act of Christ. He says no one can take His life from Him -- "I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again". John 10:18.

John's gospel presents to us that He had authority to do it, and He did it, for He poured out His life unto death. It was all for God, as it were. The grapes were pressed into Pharaoh's cup. The life of Jesus was the light that came into that dungeon, and it is the light that radiates today in the hearts of God's people, where there is subjection to Christ, and this is to be reproduced in the people of God at the present time. I may add that it is only as we know Him glorified in Heaven that we can have part in that life. What we are brought into is eternal life, as it is said, "This is the witness, that God has given to us eternal life; and this life is in his Son". But the life that we have in the Son works out in us as we are here in the body. It is the life of Jesus manifested in our mortal flesh; that is to say, it has reference to us as we are now in the body of mortal flesh. What a triumph! That in mortal flesh there should be portrayed here that same life that shone on earth in the Person of Christ! It was poured out to God, and so it is for man, too, and so it says in the Psalm, "Until the time when what he said came about, the king sent, and loosed him". Yea, He came Himself. He was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father. Think of the Father in all His affection, as that blessed One lay three days and three nights in the

bowels of the earth. The King sent and loosed Him. He loosed the pangs of death. How real it was! for that has reference to His being in the grave -- the pangs of death. It was not possible that He should be holden of it, and so the King sent and loosed Him, and made him Lord of His house and Ruler of all His substance. That is the position Christ has now. He made Him Lord of His house and Ruler of all His substance. That is the time when His word came about. He is taken from the dungeon, "and made ruler of all his substance; to bind his princes at his pleasure, and teach his senators wisdom". That is what He is doing now, but I am not dwelling upon that, precious as it is for our instruction. What I have before me is the life of Jesus, and so the apostle says, "We have this treasure in earthen vessels". What treasure? Well, he had been speaking about the covenant. If Christ is made Lord over the house, He will bring the love of God into that house, and in 2 Corinthians 3 it brings the love of God into our hearts, so that we are free. If we are in the house of God we are in liberty, not only as sons, but because we know the love of God. We cannot be free in the assembly, or the house, except as we know the love of God. Perfect love casts out fear, and the glory of the Lord is that He brings in that love. As Lord over the house He is an Official, and He brings in the love of God, and makes it effective in our hearts. That is what He is doing for us. The service that He is carrying on at the present time, as Lord over all the house, and in the house, is to bring in the love of God, and to make known that God loves us. He comes as a minister of love. He is the minister of the covenant, and as a mediator of it, makes it effective in our hearts by the Spirit. He has attested it in dying, and makes it effective in our hearts, so that we should be free and happy in the presence of God. We need light and love, and that is the glory

of the Lord, to bring in the love of God and make it effective in our hearts; for we are put in the house in the presence of God in liberty. It is the most precious ministry conceivable, to bring in the love of God. He has died to attest it, for the mediator dies; otherwise the covenant cannot be effective. But there is to be the opening of the will, and the making clear to the beneficiaries of the terms of the will, and these terms are that God loves us all alike. The mediator makes it effective. The reading of the will is of interest to every heir, and we are all heirs of God, and we desire to come into the benefits of the covenant, and the Lord has not only died to make them valuable, but He makes them effective, and brings them into our hearts. He is Lord over the house. The apostle said that he was a minister of the covenant. He was a competent new covenant minister. He was not the only one; he was one of them, and the greatest of them, and so he says, "We have this treasure in earthen vessels".

The Lord is administering the covenant, and He has engaged Paul and others, and so the latter, having this treasure, is prepared for the iron and the fetters, for the testimony is in reproach and under persecution, and, as Paul said, he was prepared to suffer along with the glad tidings -- "Take thy share of the sufferings". 2 Timothy 2:3. It is when under persecution we get the treasure, and we have the same precious light as Joseph had in the dungeon. Not in the way that he had it, but shining in the face of Jesus; and so the next thing is, am I prepared for the fetters and the iron? "Until the time when what he said came about"; it is only for a moment until the release comes. The apostle said, "The time of my release is come", 2 Timothy 4:6 "for our light affliction, which is but for a moment, works for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory", and "the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal". 2 Corinthians 4:17,18.

And so he says, "If our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens". 2 Corinthians 5:1. The end is sure. In the meantime, it is a question of the life of Jesus and how it is to be expressed. So the apostle Paul gives us here a list of things that he went through. He says, "We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed". The power of resurrection is there, and there is no possibility of overcoming such a power. He goes on to say, "Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus". Think what a believer's body is. Think of the value of it. It is that in which I may bear about the dying of the Lord Jesus. That is, how He died, how He poured out His life to God, as Joseph saw it when told of the butler's dream, the grapes pressed into Pharaoh's cup. And so the apostle goes on to say, "For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh". Note that the apostle refers to the body and then to mortal flesh. It seems to me that mortal flesh appeals to me if I have no faith, but if I have faith, the mortal flesh is fettered. I am supporting the life of Jesus, bearing it about. Think of the importance of mortal flesh, what a great moral victory. He has turned mortal flesh into a vessel for the bearing of His precious life, and, so the apostle goes on to say, we must live to present our bodies as he does, for he could say we are always delivered unto death on account of Jesus.

God sees that you want to use your body, that it may be like His precious Son in this world now, and God helps you to this end. It is a serious thing, for God took Paul at his word. He poured in death on him, that the life of Jesus should be made manifest in

his mortal flesh, and he says, "Death worketh in us, but life in you". In effect he says, "The more I die, the more you live". It is laying down one's life for the brethren, and doing it as under the eye of God, and for His pleasure.

DIVINE APPEARINGS (1)

1 Corinthians 15:5 - 8; Acts 26:12 - 16; John 14:18 - 23

J.T. What has exercised one a good deal is that the dispensation is maintained in freshness by divine manifestations. Nothing is more essential than that we should be preserved in freshness, and one has had before him the appearings of the Lord. The divine intent obviously was that those active in the dispensation should know the Lord through personal contact. It was the divine intent that there should be personal representation here, for without personal representation of Christ -- that is, in those who know Him through intimacy -- we cannot have a general or corporate representation of Christ. So these appearings, as they are called, were intended to stamp the persons involved with the sense of who the Lord is, and what He is. This would work out in their ministry, in their influence, and in their example.

G.A. Would the representation of the dispensation that you were speaking of stand very definitely in contrast to what had gone before, and, if so, what would be the reason?

J.T. Of course there were wonderful foreshadowings of the present time. We see particularly from Abraham onwards that Jehovah maintained a personal contact with those who were to represent Him. We have the statement, "The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham". Acts 7:2. Well, He intended in that appearing to impress him, and no doubt did impress him, but I apprehend that these appearings in the Old Testament were through angelic means. Although Jehovah Himself is said to have been there, as in the case of the appearing to Abraham in Genesis 18, yet the medium is, I judge, angelic. Now the appearings are in One who is Himself divine, so that in the period before He ascended, after He rose,

He made prominent the evidences of His personal love. He showed unto them His hands and His side. So that we have to do with One who, although He is the Mediator, is at the same time personally divine, and has rights over us. So that the appearings, I think, are more personal than mediatorial. They denote His personal interest in the saints, and that interest continues, and the personal service involved in it continues.

J.B.S. In Acts 1 He presents Himself living to them. Does that indicate that it is to be a living dispensation, a dispensation of spiritual life, and He presents Himself, so that there might be correspondence with Himself?

J.T. That is right. In each of the gospels we have a different view presented, and the appearings are mentioned to support that view. In John, taking them backwards -- which, I think, is the right way now, seeing that we are in a day of failure -- He is said to have appeared three times, the end in the third manifestation being the recovery of leading ministers -- Peter himself, first of all. In Luke, it is to recover two apparently insignificant ones as far as gift or service may be considered. They are not distinguished ones. One of them is called Cleopas -- called, as if not well known amongst the saints. The name of the other is not given, possibly his wife. They were on their way to Emmaus, which means an obscure place. So Luke would remind us in this personal service of the Lord that every saint is in view -- the weakest and most obscure. Mark emphasises the unbelief of the brethren -- every one of them, women and all; because He would impress us with the need of faith in the ministry. Things are all available to those that believe. "These signs shall follow them that believe", Mark 16:17 not necessarily apostles, but "them that believe". He emphasises the importance of faith, especially in those who preach -- that we should be concerned that

we believe what we preach. In Matthew it is to impress us with administrative ability as it shone in Christ, so they are to make disciples of all the nations. It is not "if they could", but it is imperative -- make disciples of all the nations. The power that is inherent in the One that reveals Himself to them is unlimited. It is all power in heaven and on earth. "I am with you alway", He says. "Make disciples of all the nations, baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". Matthew 28:19. There is no power that can stand against that -- the power that is in the hands of the Lord. All power in heaven and on earth. When we come to Acts 1, it is to impress us with a living person. He appeared unto them, living, or alive; and He charged them by the Spirit. We do not get anything like that in the gospel -- it is what He did personally. But now He is doing it by the Spirit, because He would prepare them for the dispensation of the Spirit, to make room for the Spirit. So that when we come to this chapter in Corinthians, I think we have six appearings recorded, and then in Paul's conversion we have further appearings announced -- "In the which I will appear unto thee", He says. We have a record of the details of one, and then there would be others, so that Paul's ministry, above all the others, I apprehend, was marked by personal contact with the Lord.

J.S. I suppose the point is, it depends upon our contact with the Lord?

J.T. That is what I thought. It maintains one in freshness and in variety in his service, because nothing impresses you more than the freshness and variety of the Lord's own personal ministry. And John, who has the estimate of one who is loved, says, "If they should be written ... the world itself could not contain the books". John 21:25. So that there is abundance with the Lord, and He deals it out as we are prepared to receive it.

J.S. Would the exercise be on the lines of looking for His appearing? It says, "Unto them that look for him shall he appear". I thought, perhaps, we anticipated that in reality -- future actuality. But those who get these touches or these appearings are those who look for Him.

J.T. Just so. I was thinking of it in the Acts particularly -- "In the which I will appear to thee", There would be some feature of the truth in each appearing.

J.S. Do you mean he has communications?

J.T. Quite. I thought in Paul's ministry there would be not only the first appearing, of which he speaks here in Acts 26, but a subsequent one, "In the which I will appear to thee". One can understand how the apostle would be looking for these appearings as he proceeded in his service.

J.S. It would not be that you disregarded or abandoned your calling in life, or anything of that kind. The Lord appeared to Gideon whilst he was threshing wheat. The looking is rather an attitude you would carry with you at all times.

J.T. Just so.

A.H. Does the effect of the appearings come out in the apostle's writings?

J.T. I think so. If you take up his epistles you see how he progressed, how new features were added, would you say?

A.H. I thought so, but I would like help. You quoted in Acts 26 that He would appear to him; but I was wondering whether we get the effects of it in connection with his writings.

J.T. Well, I think you can discern development in Paul's epistles, even in his addresses in the Acts. If you take, for instance, his remarks to the Ephesian elders -- how, in chapter 20, he speaks about the whole counsel of God and how the affections of Christ work out in his lowly mind and house-to-house service.

and how he says to the elders: "Shepherd the assembly of God which he has purchased with the blood of his own". Acts 20:28. What a high conception he has of the cost of the assembly as he speaks of it as that which has been purchased by the blood of God's own -- as if God had given all that He cherished for it!

G.E. That spiritual apprehension of things should mark us in our pathway.

J.T. I think there should be development with us, and freshness and variety. That is the divine intent in our being here. I think that these six appearings, as we have remarked elsewhere, are constructive; that is, they are not mere haphazard, because, doubtless, there were many other appearings. There are some that he does not mention, but which the gospels record. These are evidently mentioned with purpose, with spiritual intent, and, as I said, they are constructive, and from that point of view they tend to establish what we have been remarking, as much as any other appearings. We have first Cephas. Now, in Luke it is Simon. He "hath appeared unto Simon", Luke 24:34 because Luke contemplates the man in responsibility -- the actual man who failed. He denied the Lord. It is grace. It was abounding grace on the part of the Lord to appear to him first. It is in keeping with Luke. But in this record it is Cephas, because it is not to call attention to His grace here, but that he had in mind the spiritual material that Cephas represents. The word denotes material -- a stone -- which renders the divine dispensation permanent and stable.

J.S. In regard to the variety, I thought of what it says in Mark. The Lord appeared in another form. I thought that each occasion left its own peculiar impression.

J.T. Yes. It occurred to me lately that these six appearings of Paul's that he records, viewed constructively, set out the whole dispensation. We

have, as one might say, almost every phase of the dispensation stamped by an appearing. First the spiritual element, taken account of in Peter (Cephas), and then the twelve, meaning that as the spiritual element is taken account of you have the administrative feature, and, as the administrative feature -- that is the twelve -- is taken account of, you have the affections of the saints stamped, and, as it were, co-ordinated in an appearing to five hundred brethren at one time. Think of the effect of the appearing of the Lord to five hundred brethren at once. What a unifying, stimulating, co-ordinating effect such an appearing would have on five hundred brethren, and some of them remained, as he says, until the time he wrote, so that the effects still continued, because an appearing to five hundred would certainly take on different characteristics to an appearing to the leading apostle, or an appearing to the twelve.

J.B.S. Does it indicate five hundred impressions?

J.T. I think it does. They would all have the same opportunity. Think of the influence that these five hundred brethren would exert as they went abroad to their households, and to their businesses.

A.H-e. Does that imply that the dispensation is marked by growth in these impressions of this divine Person, beginning with His appearing to Cephas, and then to the twelve, and then to the five hundred? Is that something that has been progressive?

J.T. Yes, I think so. I think that is how the Lord maintains the dispensation in freshness and under His own hand, and with His own impress upon it. Do not you think it is very nice to think of the five hundred impressed thus?

J.S. Yes. Suggestive of a great deal of wealth.

J.T. See the rank and file of the brethren are so disposed to leave matters with those who are leading, such as Cephas, and the twelve, but the Lord says everyone has his part to fulfil. So that, as a brother,

I apprehend Him in a different light, because nothing can be more delightful here than brethren with the impress of Christ on them.

A.H. Cephas and the twelve would be merged in the five hundred brethren.

J.T. They would all be brethren, because in Acts 1 "the crowd of names" Acts 1:15 was about one hundred and twenty. That would include all the apostles. The names would mean, I think, one hundred and twenty varieties of life. Then the twelve were taken out from those.

G.E. Would the dispensation that you are speaking of cover the present day, the Spirit's day?

J.T. That is what I was thinking of -- to bring it down to our own time, because the Lord would maintain a living link with us now, and it is on the principle of John 14. It comes down to any individual that loves the Lord and keeps His commandments. That is how the link is maintained.

G.E. Is that why the Lord signalises that "if a man love me he will keep my words"?

J.T. That is it. It is available now to you or to me.

H.M. It speaks of being good stewards of the manifold grace of God. The all-varied graces that have come out in the Lord Jesus as a Man down here, God desires them continued, and if that is to be so there must be spiritual manifestations.

J.T. Quite. And then, again, the all-varied wisdom of God in the assembly -- all is dependent on these things. Well, then, you have after the brethren what I think fits in with our own times in a way -- that is James. I think it refers to the well-known James, one who exerted a great personal influence on moral grounds obviously.

G.A. And by that do you imply that each of the epistles is the fruit of an appearing?

J.T. Well, I Suppose in a way each would set out

some feature of the truth, as, for instance, Galatians sets out "Sonship". That would hinge on some appearing of the Lord in that light.

W.W. You would say that is rather borne out by the fact that in connection with Peter walking on the water, he would never lose the sense of that? I suppose it would be developed in his epistle?

J.T. That is so. But James reminds us of what one individual may do who knows the Lord -- one person. He says that Elias was a man of like passions as ourselves, and he prayed that the heavens should be shut up, and they were shut up for three years and six months. That is what one man may do who knows the Lord. One angel was enough to smite 185,000 men. Shamgar, we are told, slew six hundred Philistines with an ox goad. And so in a host of other illustrations we have in the Old Testament what one man can do who knows the Lord, and who has an appearing. And so he says Elias was a man of like passions as ourselves, and he prayed, and the heavens were shut up; and then he prayed again because it would not do for Christianity to remain at the judgment side, but would bring in the blessing. And the heavens gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit -- that is, you have a definite end for God as a result of one man. So that, however bad things are, we are never at a loss. One man who is with God can do a great deal. But, then, that one man is not to rule Christendom; so that the next appearing is to all the apostles. He cannot rule all the saints: -- you must have all the authority of the Lord -- all the apostles. Not the twelve now, but the apostles. The same persons, of course, but the number twelve means administration, and the word "apostles" signifies representation and authority. I often wondered why it should say the twelve, and then the apostles, but I can see now clearly enough. The danger for James after a great exploit would be

to acquire undue authority and influence, and hence the balance is maintained by an appearing to all the apostles. Some of them we never hear of again, after they are named. We only hear of two or three, but they all represented the authority of the Lord, and He appeared to them all. So that we have to pay respect to all the apostles. That would mean today that every man, a brother, who has spiritual power, moral weight, among the saints, has to be respected as well as the brother who does the exploits. It maintains a good balance.

J.S. I thought perhaps it might indicate the necessity of having what is of real value in the background. Many of the apostles did not come to the front like Peter. Evidently this would indicate they were available to the Lord as a kind of background.

J.T. So that every brother who has moral weight, I apprehend, is to be respected according to the moral weight and influence he exerts for God among the saints.

G.A. I think that is very practical and heart-searching. I would like to ask whether what you presented to us earlier today would stand related to what is before us this evening. Can we expect an appearing in a way that is available to us now apart from practical exercise? One would cherish the possibility of such a thing, but one would crave to know how it is to be gained.

J.T. Well, you can see in a case like Martha how she would miss the particular feature in which the Lord would shine in her house. He would shine in some way in order to impress her, but how essential it was that she should be restful and free from anxiety and care, so that the fleshy tables of the heart, which are impressionable, should be available to Christ, like writing paper to a writer. You must have the material, and Martha did not afford the material for

the Lord, whereas Mary did. Mary was impressionable.

G.A. Do you think that Mary would have spoken of that occasion that we were looking at today as an appearing?

J.T. Well, I think she would apprehend as she sat there, as the Lord was speaking. She was listening to what He was saying. He was not merely entertaining her with incidents of His life; He was speaking from the fulness of His heart, and He would always speak with design, that design being to impress the listener. She would never forget that opportunity.

A.H. Speaking of James -- I suppose you would suggest he did something outstanding, and, then, in the apostles there would be mutual support -- nothing outstanding, especially in that connection.

J.T. Each one represents an element of authority. We have to be on our guard, I think, against undue influence of those who do exploits. They are to be regarded according to what they do, but a complete representation of the Lord's authority must ever be before us, so that everyone has his own weight. It may be he has only power to rule five cities, and another has power to rule ten, but he has power to rule five; he has acquired that.

W.P. What do you mean by doing exploits?

J.T. Such as Elias did. There are others, as I said, many others, in the Old Testament recorded, such as Samson's great exploits, and the mighty men of David.

W.P. I was wondering how they came down today.

J.T. There are those who do exploits in our time. There have been men who have done exploits (and we have gained by them), who have stood up against the Philistines, and defended the plot -- that is, recovered truth.

W.P. Preserved a little food for the people of God.

J.T. Just so. But God never deviates from the truth of the dispensation; that is, there must be rule, and so after the appearing to James you have the appearing to all the apostles, and then to Paul himself, which, I think, is unique, because it is an appearing directly out of heaven. Possibly, the others were all before He went up, but this is directly out of heaven, and it is the most interesting of all.

G.A. Would you connect this at all with 1 Corinthians 11?

J.T. Well, I was thinking of that. The Lord's supper was delivered to Paul from heaven, you might say. How fresh it would be in his mind, as handed over to the Corinthians! The Lord must have appeared to him in some way in delivering him that. So that he had it, not second-hand, but first-hand.

G.E. Would it not be the Lord from heaven communicating His mind to the apostle regarding the Supper?

J.T. Well, I thought that, and He would appear in connection with that to the apostle.

G.A. Would He appear as One who desired to be remembered?

J.T. I thought that. So that it extends down in a peculiar way to us.

H.M. We would greatly desire these spiritual manifestations. Would you say a little more as to the conditions on our side?

J.T. Well, I think, when it comes down to us now, that John 14 is the light that governs the position. "He that hath my commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him".

G.E. That stands good for the whole period.

J.T. Yes, it does.

H.M. I was thinking, too, of those who got a

special manifestation, a special glimpse of the Lord on the mount of Transfiguration, and Mary at the grave. There were those who were not there. The disciples had been attached to Him, had followed His lowly pathway here, and shared His rejection, and so He decides that, as their hearts are attached to Himself, He will give them a special glimpse of Himself. Mary missed Him, too, and He must manifest Himself to a heart that misses Him.

J.T. I think Mary Magdalene, in John 20, is a model from John's point of view, because Peter and John went to their own homes -- that is, they are compared with her. They did not, come up to her. Mary remained at the sepulchre weeping, and as she wept she looked into the sepulchre and saw two angels sitting -- the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain. She got that much to begin with for her affections. I think John singles her out as a model, and then she turns round and sees Jesus, and thinks He is the gardener, and says, "If thou hast borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away". John 20:15. The Lord brings all that out; it is to bring out what is inside, so as to show us how an appearing takes place. And then He calls her by name. He says "Mary". How beautiful the link established between Him and her! And she says, "Rabboni" which is to say "Master!" She owns His authority and right over her, and then He says, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren". John 20:17. There, I think, you have the effect of a manifestation. You go to the brethren with it. The result of that is for the brethren, and the brethren are maintained in freshness by individuals who are true. It is a great service.

G.A. Do you imply that the moral outcome of an appearing is that you go to the brethren?

J.T. That is the Lord's intent. I think it is for

the brethren -- it is, of course, for yourself, but they are to get the good of it.

G.A. You imply, if we have what in principle answers to an appearing we carry to the brethren some fresh impression of Christ, fresh to us, and possibly fresh to them.

W.W. Is John 14 suggestive: "I will not leave you orphans; I am coming to you"? Is that a little on the same line, perhaps, suggesting the company?

J.T. I think so. That contemplates the assembly in order, as we say; that was what marked them at the beginning. He says: "He that hath my commandments". Now you come down to a time when others had them, and did not keep them. So that it is from that passage you quote onwards to the present time. Some had the commandments and did not keep them; others that love Him keep them, and they get the manifestations. In a simple way, it is some impression the Lord gives you. He has His own way of making Himself known to your soul, as loving Him and keeping His commandments, and you want to impart the gain of that to the brethren. I think that is how the Lord supports us now.

H.M. So that if we have to do with Him individually in that way, and then come into the company, it prepares a way for Him to visit us collectively.

J.T. Yes. So that you have it as the one who keeps His word. "If a man love me, he will keep my words"; that goes further than the commandment. It means that you keep all He said; every word, of course, is precious to you, and you keep it.

L.G. Would you say the Lord's attitude is seen in what is written to Laodicea: "Behold, I stand at the door and am knocking"? Revelation 3:20. He was ready for those who would seek Him.

J.T. Quite. "If any man hear my voice and open the door". But in Philadelphia you have the

aggregate of those who love Him, and keep His commandments and His word. "Thou hast kept the word of my patience". Revelation 3:10. There it is not an individual; it is an aggregate of individuals. The Lord clothes the whole assembly with what faithful ones are. So that He goes on to say, "I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie: behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee", Revelation 3:9.

W.P. Have you anything more to say about the appearing to Paul?

J.T. Well, I only referred to it in chapter 26 to show that the appearings were to continue. There is a sort of indication of the whole dispensation in his case, "in the which", He says, "I will appear to thee". The Lord is intimating to him that this would not be the only appearing. "There is light in My present appearing to you. Why persecutest thou Me?" The truth of the assembly was in that, but it had to be developed, and the Lord would appear to him in other features, and he was to be a witness of what that was from time to time.

W.P. Is what we speak of as revelation included in that? Paul received revelation.

J.T. Quite.

A.H-e. Would you say the main opportunity for the Lord to grant us manifestations would be at the Supper?

J.T. I suppose that would be when we are most restful. I always like to hold myself available, sitting down on the first day of the week with the brethren in relation to the whole assembly, and you are for the Lord then. I think that He comes into evidence in one feature and another, so that we are maintained.

A H-e. The Lord manifested Himself on two

occasions. Would that suggest to our hearts that the Lord would continue that service?

J.T. Well, I think that is the though -- it is weekly. John 20 gives the weekly manifestations, and I suppose there is a suggestion there of what the company might look for.

A.H. On one occasion, "The Lord stood with me, and strengthened me". 2 Timothy 4:17. Would that be an appearing to him?

J.T. It would, indeed.

J.B.S. Do you get the thought of confirmation in the appearings, too? I was thinking of Jacob -- it is recorded that He appeared to him in the way -- confirmation of his recovery back to that which God had given him the light of.

J.T. Quite. But then, when He appeared to him in Bethel, He came down and stood beside him. That was a new thing for Jacob. It was very different for him to look up and see Jehovah on the top of the ladder in heaven, from looking beside him and seeing Him there. I think he had made progress, and the second appearing in Bethel is really a new appearing, so that we have the additional thought of the drink offering there.

J.S. I thought, perhaps, the Lord sometimes draws near to His people, draws near to us. Peter needed John to say, "It is the Lord". John 21:7. The Lord was there, but Peter did not perceive Him.

J.T. Quite.

J.S. There must be very many times when the Lord draws near to us and we do not know it, and in that sense do not get the good of it; but the Lord is ever active in that way. I suppose there are occasions when John is there and says, "It is the Lord". John 21:7.

J.T. Yes, and they are all set in movement.

A.H-e. You spoke about the drink offering.

Would you say what you have in mind in regard to that?

J.T. Well, I think it means that Jacob is now conscious that he is for God's pleasure -- the drink offering is for God. It was a new feature in Bethel. In the first appearing at Bethel there was no drink offering -- it was a new feature. In chapter 35 you have the drink offering -- Jacob was consciously there for God's pleasure now.

DIVINE APPEARINGS (2)

Revelation 1:9 - 20; Revelation 2:1 - 6; Revelation 3:7 - 13

J.T. Our subject is the Lord's appearings to His people since He rose from the dead, as indicating that He purposed to maintain direct personal communication with His people, with the assembly throughout her sojourn on earth. It may help to remark that the personal service of Christ to the assembly is typified in Jacob. Eve is a type of the assembly as the product of the Father's work, and Rebecca would represent her as the result of the Spirit's service, or activities, whereas Jacob is said to have gone into the country of Syria and served for a wife, and for a wife kept sheep -- meaning that the Lord undertook the thing Himself. We are occupied with His own service, which continues throughout the whole period, for Jacob served fourteen years, as he says, for his wives, and six years for his cattle. By night the frost consumed him, and the sun by day. That is, there was personal exposure -- the side of the truth that should appeal to us peculiarly. And alongside the manifestations of which we spoke yesterday evening, we have this extraordinary one to John, which covers, as we might say, the whole dispensation of the assembly's sojourn here, in that it contemplates the various stages -- first of departure, and then of recovery. Hence, the bearing of it extends down to our own times.

J.B.S. Do we get departure and recovery in Jacob, in his going down and his returning?

J.T. Well, if you look at him as a type of a Christian you do, but we are also entitled to look at him as a type of Christ. The patriarchs all represent Christ in some way, and they also represent individuals. But I was speaking of Jacob entirely from the standpoint

point of a type of Christ. You see, Jacob "fled into the country of Syria", as it reads in the better translation -- Hosea 12:12 -- meaning that it was extended, not confined to a city or town. One would venture to suggest that Paul's ministry (he representing the Lord personally), in its wide extent, would answer to that. He preached, he says, in a circuit from Jerusalem round about to Illyricum. He fully preached the gospel of Christ. It was what Christ, he says, wrought in me. It was Christ that was doing it. We see how Jacob on his arrival in Syria is occupied at a well, removing the stone and feeding the flock; and as Rachel appears she is called a shepherdess. There is a correspondence between her and Jacob. That is, there is the contemplation in both of active service, active care for others. This extraordinary appearing to John has the whole history of the assembly in view, and it is a proper adjunct to what we had last evening, only it will lead us to look at the failure of the assembly, the public body, and then we can also, by the Lord's help, contemplate with satisfaction and joy the recovery in Philadelphia. I think we can see by what we had last evening, and what is contemplated in these chapters, that the Lord intended to maintain personal contact with His people throughout the whole period. He is seen here as walking in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks.

W.P. Does that suggest continuance?

J.T. Yes. I gather from it that the Lord is moving about at the present time, not only in relation to His own who love Him -- He has His eye especially on those who love Him -- which Philadelphia represents, and, indeed, which the overcomer represents in every assembly, but walks about in regard of what is evil. He takes account of what is evil, and that makes it extremely serious for Christendom. We may in our smallness of vision limit ourselves to our

own localities in our exercises and prayers, and, of course, the Lord values that -- what there is locally -- but He is concerned about the whole of Christendom; that is, the whole of the professing body forms His circuit.

W.P. Does it not begin small with us? We start in our own, perhaps a narrow, local circle, and the Lord instructs us, and we extend out in our thoughts and affections.

J.T. That is the normal effect of our contact with the Lord. You are led into His thoughts. "If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me". John 13:8. You have part in all that He is going on with, but it may not have occurred to some of us that the Lord is moving about, according to these passages, in the whole domain of profession, and all comes under His immediate inspection. Hence the judicial habiliments that appear here, and the power that appears to enforce His rights and to deal with evil.

A.H. An opportunity for repentance is always kept open.

J.T. Yes, quite.

W.P. Should the exercise for us be to hear His voice in whatever way He speaks to us, whether it is in calling attention to what is evil or what He can commend?

J.T. That is the thing. "He that hath an ear, let him hear". There is that which the Lord says to each assembly, and which represents His authority; and then there is what the Spirit says, which everyone is to hear. I apprehend what the Lord says conveys His mind for any given period. The Spirit enlarges on that, breaks it up through ministry.

A.H. Does the Spirit make it applicable for the present moment?

J.T. Yes. It becomes the ministry for the moment. The Spirit would enlarge on it.

J.T. You see how John becomes in this book a personal representative of the Lord in regard to all this. He is taken into the Lord's confidence. He sent and signified it by His angel to His bondman John, who testified the word of God, all things that he saw. The Lord in an appearing conveys to the person His mind, and makes him personally His confidant. So that there is personal representation. But then you find in John a gracious or loving identification with those who love the Lord. "I, John, who also am your brother and companion in tribulation". He links himself with and places himself alongside us at once. Whilst he is the Lord's confidant, as we may say, and His personal representative in regard to what is conveyed, he is also our brother and companion in tribulation. So that a mutual link is established at once with us, and the sympathies of those that love the Lord are immediately called into action.

G.E. Did the Lord suggest this when He said to Peter, "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?" John 21:22.

J.T. I thought that He reserved John. John was a reserve man, kept under the Lord's hand for a work that He had in View of the breakdown of the assembly. As it says in John, "He himself knew what he would do". The Lord is not taken unawares. He knew what was coming, and He kept John in reserve.

H.M. Before there can be those confidential relations and intercourse with the Lord, and the unfolding of His mind, the face has to be in the direction of Himself, has it not? So that John is turned round to behold Him.

J.T. Yes. We have to change our position for a communication, or a manifestation. You find throughout this book constant change of position. He is delightfully in accord with the primary feature of the dispensation. "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day",

he says. We may be sure if we are there we shall come in for something of this kind.

A.H-e. Would you say a little more as to the primary feature of the dispensation?

J.T. I think it is indicated in that word, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day", that is, a state of abstraction in which one is entirely for Christ. You are for Christ, as in the Spirit, and therefore John was not personally at all involved in the judicial attitude of Christ. He had nothing to fear, and, whilst he would feel the general departure of the assembly as a public body, he was personally immune. The Lord lays His right hand on him and He says, "Fear not". The Lord gave him to understand that he was personally immune, and that His power, all the power of the Lord, was available to him.

G.A. Like Daniel, a man greatly beloved.

J.T. Just so. Laying His right hand on him involved that He committed Himself to John; all His power is with what John represents, and that runs right through the whole period, so that Philadelphia is commended because she has a little power, and He further unfolds to her that He is the One that "openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth", and He had set before her an open door which no one could shut. So that, I think, we are coming in for the "right hand", the power of the Lord.

J.S. Is that for us individually or collectively?

J.T. I think both. I think that the Lord has greatly helped us. Some years back emphasis was laid on the individual side, which was most essential, but now I think the Lord has greatly helped the brethren on the collective side; that is, there is a sense in which we come in for collective privilege, in which there is a measure of collective testimony, in the sense in which the Lord Himself is represented.

G.E. It must necessarily commence with individuals, would you say?

J.T. Quite.

H.M. Is not the outcome of this condition, too, that we see in John that the Lord presents Himself to him in detail, so that he gets the sense of all His present activities -- His hands, His feet, His face? He can trace it all, cannot he?

J.T. You see how that is broken up in the various addresses; how the Lord refers back to these features in the various addresses.

G.A. What is the import of John's turning to see the voice?

J.T. He is a model there; a model for us. We want to be ready to move as the voice comes. The personal pronoun "I" in connection with John is to be noted. It is also found in connection with the Lord Jesus in this book. When John says, "I, John", your attention is called to him.

G.A. I was wondering would it imply that the voice and the Person were the same. John had heard that voice, and knew it only came from one Person. I wondered whether it stood out in contrast to what comes afterwards. It is a remarkable expression, "to see a voice".

J.T. Yes, and our attention is called, "I turned to see".

G.A. "Turn thou us unto thee, O Lord, and we shall be turned", Lamentations 5:21.

J.T. That is it. It is well when the people of God are prepared to move with the light -- with the communications that the Lord makes.

J.B.S. Is it similar to Mary? She turned, and she received that wonderful message.

J.T. Yes. It is very similar. It was not accidental. It is what you might call spiritual instinct at the moment. Every move that is seen in Mary should be noted, and so every move in John should

be noted, because the Spirit of God in the use of the personal pronoun 'I' is calling special attention to him, as you will observe in verse 9, "I, John". It is well to take account of models. Men of like passions as ourselves. The truth is brought nearer to you. So that in John you have a Christian, as he says here, "your brother and fellow-partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and patience in Jesus". He was a Christian, just in this sense, and he turned to see the voice.

W.P. Does the fact that he speaks of himself in that way, "your brother and companion in tribulation", suggest that recovery is not on official lines, but in connection with brotherly love?

J.T. That comes out in our day -- the brother, the companion in tribulation. You are ready to listen to him now. He is by our side; he is one of ourselves.

W.P. Not only do we recognise him in that way, but he takes that place.

J.T. He does. And then I think he is also typical in the falling down, because the Lord's appearance to him meant the general breakdown of the public body, and he, of course, was in that. If he fell at His feet as one dead, the whole public body should take that place. The pope should take that place, and the Archbishop of Canterbury, and the leaders of the Methodist Conferences, and the Moderators of the Presbyterians, and the Patriarch of the Greek Church, and all the lesser dignitaries should fall at His feet as dead. You see what a clean sweep it would make. John is a leader here; he is a leader for us, because if he felt the need of falling down, we should all feel it, because we have all had part in the public scandal of the assembly.

W.P. That involves right condition, does it not?

J.T. Quite.

J.S. Would you make a little clearer what John was immune from, and what John was involved in?

J.T. That is a good point to raise. John personally was immune, because he loved the Lord, and had no personal part in the general failure, but, being in fellowship, being outwardly connected with the name of Christ by baptism, or, at least, by profession, for the apostles were not baptised as far as we know; but by profession, he was involved in the general catastrophe, and in no sense sought to evade it. It is incumbent on everyone in the profession to accept the consequences of the general breakdown. We are all in it, we cannot evade the obligation; but, then, there are the overcomers. I take it that Benjamin represents the overcomer among the sons of Jacob. He had no personal part in the selling of Joseph to the Midianites. He was not with the ten brothers when that happened -- possibly had no knowledge of it. He remained with his father. But, nevertheless, he had to suffer the famine. God called for a famine; it says in the Psalms, "He broke the whole staff of bread". @Psalm 105:16. And Benjamin waited with his father, Jacob, who had no personal part in the crime; nevertheless, they had to suffer the consequences of it, and particularly Benjamin. He was obliged to go through all the sorrowful and painful exercises with his brethren. He was not, indeed, put into prison like Simeon. Indeed, they were all imprisoned at first, and rightly. But, on the second visit, when they brought down Benjamin, they had to go through a painful process, and Benjamin shared it. Nevertheless, Benjamin was under Joseph's eye from the very outset of his appearance in Egypt, and Joseph's house comes into evidence as soon as Benjamin is on the scene. Then he gets five times as much as any of his brethren, so that the overcomer is taken account of, and immune from the ultimate results of the breakdown. Nevertheless, he accepts the obligation of it, and, to some extent, at least, he suffers with the mass.

G.A. Would you say that Daniel is a confirmation of that principle? Like John, he sees a divine Person presented. He takes up the position practically as John did. He accepts the liability in a way that rests upon him, although not involved in the thing. Though separate from it, he accepts the situation. Would that be akin to the position of John?

J.T. I think it would. It shows how an individual who loves the Lord may clear himself morally, and that word is important there -- that whilst we are publicly involved in the scandal we are morally clear. In falling down before the Lord, we accept the fact that the judgment involved in His judicial habiliments is merited by us.

A.H. Such a position would save us from any presumption -- accepting the shame.

J.T. It would. You see it in Daniel confessing his sins, his father's sins, and you see it in Ezra in a beautiful way -- the full acknowledgement of the guilt of the nation. In that acknowledgement he is morally clear. That is how we get morally clear, whilst still identified publicly with the general scandal.

J.B.S. Benjamin came in publicly as the son of sorrow. You would say that is what characterised him in what you have been referring to?

J.T. Just so.

R.W. Would that define our attitude in relation to Christendom at the present moment?

J.T. I think it does. If we are with the Lord we accept the shame -- the whole ecclesiastical shame, from the setting up of popery right down to the present time, and all the subdivisions of evil that exist. We are implicated in them all because the public position is, we are all partakers. But how to get morally clear is the point for us, and I think the overcomer is always the link. The overcomer is the link in every assembly, because an overcomer is morally clear.

J.S. There seems to be a principle in the ways of God that you are involved in things that you had no part in, and really not to blame for.

J.T. Caleb and Joshua would be an illustration, too. They had no part; indeed, they oppose the unbelief of the others, and, yet, they shared the consequences of the unbelief of the ten spies and all the people for forty years. Then they come in, ultimately, for their portion, because God is infinitely just with us. We lose nothing.

J.S. I thought if we accepted it as we should we gain much.

J.T. Yes. What one had in mind was that perhaps a consideration of these chapters would lead us to see how we get morally clear, and, as such, the Lord can identify Himself with us.

H.M. Is it not encouraging, too, that, if we take our true position, as John did, the very hand that holds the seven stars is put upon us, and the very mouth, out of which went the two-edged sword, says: "Fear not", and which unfolds His love to us?

J.T. Beautiful. I think we might see in the addresses a breaking up into detail of the general appearings. In the address to Ephesus, He holds the seven stars; that is, He supports those who are responsible. The stars are the angels of the seven assemblies -- those responsible. The responsible element, as yet, was supported by the Lord. He held them. And, then, again, He says to Smyrna: "These things says the first and the last, who became dead and lived", Revelation 2:8. It appears as if Smyrna was in accord with John. This was a special word to John: "I am he that liveth and was dead, and, behold, I am alive for evermore". Smyrna represents a state of suffering among the people of God. "Ye shall have tribulation ten days", Revelation 2:10. He says. The Lord is known as the One who has the power -- all the keys of hades -- so that He can limit satanic influence.

He can limit it. He is the One who became dead and lived. Then in Pergamos, He says, "These things says he that has the sharp two-edged sword", because the evil was setting in and the word now is the thing -- the word of God. The evil that was creeping into the assembly at Pergamos was such as might have been undetected, because evil is very insidious. Satan works insidiously, but "the word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do", Hebrews 4:12,13. So that the word of God was an immense thing for the faithful in the days of Pergamos. I can understand that in those days the Spirit of God would enlarge on the question of life and of resurrection, as the saints were suffering martyrdom. The great truth of resurrection, that He became dead and lived, would be enlarged upon in the ministry of the Spirit. But in Pergamos the word of God would be enlarged on, and coupled to the sword of the Spirit.

E.M.W. Do you mean the letter of Scripture?

J.T. Oh, no. It is more the word of God as used by the Spirit. It is really God Himself, "all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him". It is not 'it', but "him". It is the living word of God. It is living. And it is brought to bear on a condition like Pergamos when evil was creeping in. It would expose that for the true believer.

E.M.W. It is in relation to Scripture, though?

J.T. Oh, surely. For us the Scriptures are the record of it, but then you see the Holy Spirit is here, and that is what one would call special attention to: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says". Whilst we have in the Bible a complete

record of every phase of the word of God, yet the Spirit of God enlarges on that. So that we have amplification and application of what the Lord said.

A.H. You would not go outside Scripture?

J.T. No. You have amplification and application, the Holy Spirit being here as a divine Person. He indeed has indited the Scriptures. It is what He "says", notice, not what He 'said' In every phase of the assembly there is a speaking. There is nothing new added to revelation, but an amplification and application, perhaps, such as were not apparent in the apostles' days, because the conditions were not there. It is a great thing to make room for the Spirit in His present activities.

W.W.W. That emphasis the importance of the present day.

J.T. Exactly. The Holy Spirit is amplifying what the Lord said covering this present time.

W.W. Would you say as difficulties arise we get light to meet them?

J.T. We do. So that when you come to Thyatira He says, "These things says the Son of God, he that has his eyes as a flame of fire", Revelation 2:18. Now you see you have a ministry of jealousy, a ministry that involves the house of God, for the Son is over that house. You would look, therefore, for the Spirit enlarging on the truth of the Son of God as He is over the house, and in His jealousy dealing with all that is contrary to Him -- "eyes as a flame of fire".

G.A. Would that imply that there had been in Thyatira a disregard of the principles of the house of God?

J.T. Obviously. The whole government of the house and principles of the house had been disregarded. You know Rome and all the other great bodies are travesties of the truth of the house of God. The Lord feels all that interferes with His rights as

over the house. It is most interesting -- nothing can be more interesting really than this, because it opens up the whole history of the assembly viewed as having failed, and how the Lord has met it in His own personal service; it is what He is doing.

L.G. Would you say this comes out in the Lord? He goes up to Jerusalem and clears the temple.

J.T. That corresponds exactly. That is His attitude here. The whip of small cords corresponds with these features.

L.G. After having cleared it, in Mark, "He taught, saying to them, Is it not written, My house shall be called a house of prayer?" Mark 11:17.

J.T. He first comes in and looks around on all things in that gospel -- He makes a survey of what is there, then He comes back the next morning with a whip of small cords, and, entering into the temple, He purges it, and answers questions. That is a great principle -- He is supreme in it.

H.M. As these details are taken up, does not the particular detail of each assembly show that He has a particular word, a particular presentation of Himself, for each period and each crisis?

J.T. That is right. And we desire to be in accord with that. We wish to know what the word is for us, and see that it is enlarged on.

J.S. Do you connect it with localities as well as with what is general?

J.T. Yes, quite. For instance, He says to Ephesus, "I am coming to thee, and I will remove thy lamp out of its place, except thou shalt repent", That has a local reference, has it not?

J.S. I think it must have.

J.T. "I am coming to thee". And then He says to Pergamos, "Repent, therefore, but if not, I come to thee quickly, and I will make war with them with the sword of my mouth", Revelation 2:16.

J.S. That raises a local exercise!

J.T. Indeed. What a serious time at Ephesus when the Lord came thus. How differently when Paul, who was His great representative, visited the Ephesians, as recorded in Acts 20. He sent for the elders, who came to him, and there was a beautiful expression of affection between them. He warns them of it; as yet the evil had not come in, but now this coming meant that the evil had set in, and He was going to remove their candlestick. I have often thought of the difference between the visit of the Lord to persons and a visit to a locality. If He comes to a locality as such, He deals with all in it.

J.S. That is, to put it simply, not merely the meeting as we speak.

J.T. He would deal with every Christian in the locality, indeed every nominal Christian is under His eye if He comes to a locality.

J.S. Every professing Christian?

J.T. What would you say?

J.S. Well, I am deeply interested, but I had not thought much of the profession myself. It commends itself to me.

A.H. The Lord here is speaking to all, although there may only be those who are vitally interested to hear His voice. He is speaking to all in view of response by all.

J.T. That is it. Everyone is responsible, every nominal Christian in this town is responsible to the Lord Jesus, and He holds them to it.

A.H. There never is a time when anyone may go on with evil. There is always a way out.

J.T. There is always a way out, and we must not evade the obligation resting upon us in our localities. The whole profession is responsible, and we must not forget nor ignore it.

G.A. Does it imply that the various exercises raised With the assemblies may be gone through in a

locality -- that it may be a question of one exercise now and a further exercise later?

J.T. Yes.

A.H-e. Do you think we should not regard this as past history in relation to the assembly, but its present application to us in our day in all its phases?

J.T. All these letters were to be written in a book, in one book, and sent to the assemblies, so that each assembly had all that was written to the others. That maintains a general exercise as to obligation to the Lord as well as local exercise. You know His mind about the whole, but you know it particularly about your own locality.

C.A. How would we discover intelligently the exercise which the Lord would raise in our locality?

J.T. What He says to Ephesus or to Smyrna or to Pergamos was an authoritative pronouncement. Now to bring that down to detail in any locality the Lord has His own way of asserting His authority. Something comes in -- it may not be much -- but it has authority in your soul. It appeals to you as the Lord's commandment; it is an authoritative word for the time. Now, the Holy Spirit will take that up, and enlarge on it. That is what is meant by, "he that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies". The Spirit enlarges on that. It is not for you only, but for the whole assembly -- it is not what the Spirit says to the assembly. What the Lord says to such and such an assembly is said; but it is what the Spirit says to the assemblies. That is, the ministry is for all.

H.M. Would it make for a good moral state?

J.T. Yes, it does. But it gives a wide scope. The Lord may have an authoritative word for any locality, but the amplification of that is for all.

H.M. So that there is a principle that may be dealt with that is world-wide in its bearing?

J.T. Yes. If anything occurs in Brisbane, if a

conflict arises so that evil has to be dealt with, there is spoil from that. So that the Holy Spirit amplifies that, and enlarges on it, and the whole assembly benefits from it.

G.A. So that local difficulties, of whatever character they may be, cease in the light of that to be of small moment.

J.T. They do. They have a general bearing, the Holy Spirit is here in the assembly, and He operates in relation to the whole.

W.P. Are there not questions that may be raised locally that have no need to be raised universally?

J.T. No doubt, but if there is any spoil it is for the whole assembly.

A.H-e. So that you have not defeat before you, but rather victory?

J.T. That is the thing. So that, before you have the failure of Peter and the brothers that were with him, you have the thought of a manifestation mentioned in John 21, because the manifestation is the thing, you see; it means the accession of light. That is what is in the Lord's mind in allowing things to happen.

H.M. So that every heart that loves Him in that locality, and stands loyal to Him, gets a special presentation of Himself!

J.T. Quite. You get that as spoil, and the Holy Spirit, I believe, takes it up.

G.A. This would make us intensely sympathetic with saints in any locality who are going through a specific exercise.

J.T. Yes. Because it is yours, Hence the thought is that the faithful in Ephesus would be interested in what was going on at Smyrna, and all the other assemblies. They are getting the gain of what the Spirit says to the assemblies.

G.A. It would not be a matter of curiosity, but of spiritual exercise.

J.T. Quite.

J.S. I was thinking there might be concern, not only in regard to what happened, but in regard to what we may have missed of the spoil that was acquired.

J.T. Quite.

REPROACH REMOVED

Isaiah 4:1 - 6

It will be observed that in this passage a man's name is regarded as sufficient to remove reproach -- it is so regarded by seven women, these seven women representing a spirit of self-judgment. The previous chapter shows that the women of Jerusalem had so garbed themselves, had so adorned themselves with worldly equipment, that they were evidently under no reproach in this world. In verses 18 to 24 of chapter 3 it says, "In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon, the chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers, the bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the head-bands, and the tablets and the earrings, the rings, and nose-jewels, the changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins, the glasses and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the veils". Isaiah 3:18 - 24. The possession of all these worldly ornamental things by the daughters of Jerusalem rendered them without reproach in the eyes of the world. But these seven women are not deceived by such outward show. They are consciously under reproach, and they see that the removal of this reproach lay in the name of a man.

As I speak to those who are believers on the Lord Jesus, I need not enlarge on the suggestion that this one Man is no less than the Lord. For no one has a name in the whole universe of God sufficient to remove reproach from others save the Lord. He has a name -- God has given him one -- "A name which is above every name" -- which is given under heaven among men whereby they may be saved. Philippians 2:9. Hence the discernment of these seven women, who saw that reproach could only be removed and dignity assured

as they took on the name of the One Man -- the Lord Jesus. They said, "We will eat our own bread and wear our own apparel -- only let us be called by thy name". And then, as in a note of feeling or exclamation, they say, "Take away our reproach!" Now, beloved friends, how much sense of reproach is there with us? If I bear the name of Christ abroad in this world, I am under reproach on account of that, but if I look toward God and the system of things He has set up in Christ, I am under reproach unless I have that name. It matters little what men may think, or how much reproach may be attached to me on their account. What concerns me, if I am exercised before God, is how I stand in regard to Him -- whether I have a standing as before God, whether as regards Him I am under reproach. And I am under reproach as in the presence of God, of the angels, and of the people of God unless I bear that name.

And so I would dwell for a moment on the name of this Man. What I am speaking of is elementary, and I trust simple to all, but it is of all moment that we should understand that we are called by His name. "Let us be called", they say, "by thy name", and then the feeling expression, "Take away our reproach!"

Now Isaiah brings to our attention the thought of Christ as Man in a peculiar way, and what I wish to convey is that He is on our side. You see it is one thing to apprehend Him as a Man on our side, and it is another thing to apprehend Him as Son of God as on our side. As the Son of Man, He has taken up a position in relation to all, and He removes all that lay upon us, and besides that gives us a footing with God. Hence in this prophet we have, "Unto us a child is born; unto us a son is given". Isaiah 9:6. You see we are thus enabled, having light from God, to appropriate the Lord viewed as a Man. He has come to our side, and, as come to our side, He disposes, to the

glory of God, of all that lay upon us, through redemption; and then He dignifies and beautifies the race. That is the effect of the Lord Jesus becoming Man -- He has come entirely to our side. You will recall how, in the gospel of Luke, all the people were baptised, and then it says Jesus was baptised. He comes in at the end in wondrous condescension, and as baptised He is praying. You see how He has established a footing on moral grounds before God. It adorns a man on moral grounds to pray, and so He is seen praying; it says that as He was baptised, and as He was praying, the heavens were opened. Heaven acclaims its appreciation of the Man, and then immediately the genealogy is traced back through all the generations to the head of the race, to Adam and from Adam to God. So that the race is, in wonderful grace, accredited with this wonderful Man. So in chapter 32 of this prophet we have the statement, "A man shall be as a hiding place from the wind and a covert from the storm; as brooks of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a thirsty land". Isaiah 32:2. It is what Jesus is as having come to our side; and as He is appropriated our reproach is taken away, so that we lift up our heads in the presence of God, in the understanding of the dignity of Manhood as in Christ. I apprehend myself related to Christ. In baptism I have cut my connection with Adam. I have taken on a new Head. I recognise a new Head, and that He has the very name that involves the removal of the reproach that lay upon me, so that I am set up without reproach in the presence of God as having taken on that name.

What I am speaking of is simply the gospel, but I thought it well, dear brethren, to refer to this point, so that we might understand how we are set up in the in-coming of Christ as Man -- how we are set up before God on a new footing, and how all the reproach that attaches to us as in the flesh is cancelled. We

have a new Head of the race. I do not speak now of Head of the body -- the assembly -- I speak of the Head of the race -- a new Head has come in, and I claim Him. It is the privilege of every man and woman in the world to claim Him. He has come in on our side, and so the Spirit of God, as heaven opens and acclaims its pleasure in Him, links Him on with man right through to Adam. And so I claim Him, and everyone may claim Him, and in taking on His name the reproach is removed. I am set up in the presence of God without reproach. It is a wonderful thing, and so simple, that it is within the range of every man and every woman to claim Christ, to take on His name, and in His name to have the reproach that attached to us as born of the flesh removed. Circumcision is the subjective answer to this. As I take up a position in the presence of God, and enter on my privileges, there is the application of the circumcision of Christ, in the putting off of the body, or totality, of the flesh; as it says, "This day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from off you", Joshua 5:9. 'I have in circumcision rolled away in the power of the Spirit, the reproach of Egypt'.

Well now, what follows the taking on of the name is beautification. It is one thing to be clear of reproach; to be set up afresh before God, but it is another thing to be beautified for that position, for God looks for ornament and beauty before Him. We need only to look at the heavens, and to look abroad on the earth, to be reminded of the divine requirements in regard to ornamentation and beauty, and here again we come to Christ. It says "In that day there shall be a branch -- or a sprout -- of the Lord for beauty and holiness, for beauty and glory". Now we are presented with another view of the Lord. He is not only a new Head for the race with a name that fills the whole universe of God, but also the beautification needed and so it says. "In that day there shall be a sprout of Jehovah"

-- that is how it reads. This leads us to consider the Lord according to all the freshness and vigour of life that marked Him, as dependent on God, in this world. He was cast upon God from the very outset of His being. Of no other babe could it be said He was cast upon God from the very outset. There was in that holy Babe for the eye of God, the evidence of dependence -- the freshness and vigour of a dependent life -- from the very beginning. He was a Sprout -- the idea of a sprout is dependence. The Lord took the ground, as a Man, to draw from His Father. He was God over all, blessed for ever, of course, but as become Man He was true to the position of Manhood, and He drew from God. He was cast upon God from the very outset, and so under the eye of God, in that Babe; and in that Boy, and in that Man there was the evidence throughout of a dependent life. He was the Sprout, beloved; and then it says that Sprout is "for glory and beauty". Now I apprehend the Lord in another way. I think of Him according to the evidence of life that was there expressed in dependence on God; and all that is available now for us, for ornamentation and for beauty. We take on His character -- the beauty of the Lord is put upon us, so that, in a subjective way, we are in the presence of God according to the Sprout. That is the evidence of life in its freshness and in its vigour; for nothing delights the eye more than the early evidence of life, and there is to be the budding, and the blossoming, and the ripening of fruit for God's eye. So that the Sprout, as it says, is for beauty and for glory.

And so it goes on to say that "The fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped". You see how all is made to contribute to the remnant; in other words, to those of us now who come in through faith for what there is in Christ. The very fruit of the earth becomes contributory for

our adornment in the presence of God, and so it goes on, "It shall come to pass that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even everyone that is written among the living". Among the living -- I wonder how we understand this -- what it is to be "written among the living". We are all taken account of as believers, as given eternal life. Eternal life is the gift of God. I have it by believing; I have title to it. But then there is such a thing as "the living", and "being written" among them. Being written among the living, I apprehend, means that I am bearing fruit. I am not in the least degree seeking to weaken my title to life, which is presented in the gospel, but to be "written among the living", I apprehend means there is the evidence of life. And so it says in John 15, "Every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit". John 15:2. He purgeth it -- that is, the Father -- that it may bear more -- more. What God looks for in this world, at the present time, in His people, is fruit and those who are written among the living are fruit-bearers. It is an immense thing to be a fruit-bearer, for the Lord comes into His garden. The idea of a garden is that it is carefully cared for. It is cultured and watered, and the trees are pruned and the weeds removed; so the Lord comes into His garden. "Let my beloved come into his garden, and eat his pleasant fruits". Song of Songs 4:16. Where are these fruits to be found, save in those who are written among the living? So it says all such are called holy; for without holiness no one shall see the Lord.

Then it proceeds to say, "When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning" -- When the Holy Spirit came down at Pentecost, He came in the character of cloven tongues as a fire, and, it says, "sat upon each of them". Acts 2:3.

I apprehend that the fire was for subjective purification. There is nothing in the whole world so effective in the removal of impurity as fire, and the Holy Spirit in us effects that practical purgation, that practical purification of mind and spirit. We are to be cleansed from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit. I am under the impression, dear brethren, that perhaps more attention is given to the purification -- the cleansing, of the flesh than of the spirit. A man may pass as highly reputable in the community who judges his flesh, who restrains his flesh, and yet he may be absolutely filthy in his spirit. A man who is filthy in his spirit is a man who imbibes wrong thoughts of God, and of Christ. He disregards the atonement. He is wrong in that faculty in which he stands specially related to God -- that is, his spirit. If the Holy Spirit is in us as the spirit of burning, He will deal with all that; and let no one claim to have the Holy Spirit who is wrong in regard of God and of Christ, and of the atonement. He is filthy in his spirit; he has not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will not dwell in one who is filthy in his spirit.

And so, as it says here, "When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning". I would seek to exhort a little as to this, because all these great things of which I have been speaking are contingent on this subjective work of God in removing the filth of the daughters of Jerusalem -- that is, all believers -- by the spirit of judgment and the spirit of burning. If we have come into relation to God, and to Christ, and claim to have the Spirit, we shall look for these things. The removal of our reproach, and our beautification in the presence of God, are made contingent on this process of purification.

Now, having said so much, I want to say a word about households of Zion, the dwelling-places of Zion, and the assemblies of Zion. You will not misunderstand what I mean in referring to the dwelling-places of Zion and the assemblies, or convocations, of Zion. Next to oneself God takes up one's house, and I wish to call attention to the households of Zion -- a thought that perhaps may not have suggested itself to you, for we regard our households, perhaps, as men do; whereas, as believers, we should regard our households as dwelling-places of Zion. That is, they are taken up in mercy, the mercy of God as it extends to me extends to my dwelling-place, to my household, and what God desires is that there should be a certain spiritual dignity attaching, not only to me, but attaching to my household. And so it says, "The Lord will create". Now notice that word 'create'. It is a word that is used carefully by the Spirit. It is not an adaptation, the word 'create' is something wholly new. "That God should create over every dwelling-place of Zion a cloud of smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night". I look at that household. I know the brother. I take chapter 16 of Acts as an example; it is a chapter of households. We have at the beginning of that chapter Timotheus, the product of a household of Zion, of a dwelling of Zion. His father was a Greek, but his mother was a Jewess, a believing woman. She was a believing woman, she was not simply a woman who believed, she was characterised by believing. She had come into the understanding of the mercy of God, and she knew that the mercy of God extended to her house, and her son Timotheus was the great product of that dwelling-place of Zion. We maybe assured that over that dwelling there was a cloud by day, there was that which pointed to the divine interest, the divine protection, the divine care, and, as it says, "a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night".

So that as one looks on a believer's house one sees the evidence of the divine care by day -- the smoke, and the burning fire by night. I am concerned about my offspring in the daytime -- his occupation. He is the subject of the mercy of God, as belonging to my house. I think of him by night, he goes out, perhaps, in self-will, and enters into the haunts of this world, whereas over the dwelling-place where he was born and nurtured there is the cloud, and the burning fire by night; the evidence of the light and protection of God is there. One can understand that, as he returns from the haunts of this world, he is reminded of the light and protection of God that is over the dwelling. He has been the subject doubtless of his father's and his mother's prayers, and God knows it, and so, by night, as it says, "the shining of a flaming fire".

What a witness over the dwellings of Zion are they of the power of God, in light and in judgment against all that is contrary to what becomes a Christian household; and so, take Lydia in that same chapter. Her household is a dwelling-place of Zion. The Lord opened her heart to attend to the things spoken by Paul. What things? The announcement of the mercy of God. "According to his mercy he saved us". Titus 3:5. She says at once, "If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house". Acts 16:15. The apostle found a congenial spot in that dwelling. There was the cloud over it, the evidence of divine protection and care by day, and the burning fire by night. No one could interfere. Think of how believers who have households may nestle down under the sense of divine protection by day and by night -- dignified indeed by both the cloud and the burning fire. Where are there households to be compared with such? As we may further add, according to Exodus, the children of Israel had light in all their dwellings.

And then again the assembly -- it says. "upon her assemblies".

This raises the question as to the principles that govern our meetings, and the spirit in which we come together. The great tendency with us is to drop to the level of current religion; acquiring a method, a recognised method, a weekly series of meetings, forgetting that God intends that there should be the covering by day. Do we not realise it as we are here together? We do. There is a covering by day, that is to say, there is protection, and not only protection, but distinction. You look for distinction in the assemblies of Zion. They are not like the assemblies of this world. The sanhedrim in Jerusalem before which Stephen stood had no such distinction. It was marked by man and human power and pride, whereas in another place, it may be a few paces off, a few of God's people meet together in some obscure house, and over that house there is a covering by day, and a burning fire by night. Such is the distinction, beloved, that God accords to us, as we meet together as those who form the assemblies of Zion. We are not marked by the principles of this world, or their ways. The principles of Zion mark us, and God Himself distinguishes us by day and by night.

Now I do earnestly seek that we may look into these things, especially the distinction that God places upon the dwelling-places of Zion, and the assemblies of Zion.

THE INDIVIDUAL AS AN OVERCOMER

Judges 4:1 - 9; Judges 5:1 - 11

J.T. I was thinking specially of the examples that this book furnishes of individual prowess, what one person may accomplish as devoted to the Lord.

A.H. Does the state of things in Judges correspond with our day?

J.T. I think so. What you observe is that they began happily, the history is presented first from the standpoint of the exercises of the people, up to the fifth verse of chapter 2. The book begins with the exercises of the people. "The children of Israel", it says, asked Jehovah, "which of us shall go up against the Canaanites first", Judges 1:1 and then Judah said to Simeon his brother, "Come up with me". There is the recognition of the Lord in His sovereign rights, and then there is brotherly confidence -- "Judah said to Simeon his brother", Judges 1:1. Simeon had got his territory inside Judah's territory, and Judah was not at all resentful of the intrusion, but regarded Simeon as his brother; of course much less influential, but nevertheless he is Judah's brother and he invites him to go with him to the conflict. I mention this as showing the setting of the book. It says later, "Judah went with Simeon his brother". Judges 1:17. There is a brotherly reciprocity.

G.E. They were together in their exercises.

J.T. Yes; Simeon goes with Judah, and then Judah goes with Simeon. They act together. That is a point worthy of note in this book. But then the exercise that is thus noted declines, and we have such statements as in chapter 1:21, "The children of Benjamin did not dispossess the Jebusites", Judges 1:21 and then again, in verse 27, "Manasseh did not dispossess Beth-shean", Judges 1:27 and in verse 29, "Ephraim did not dispossess the Canaanites". Judges 1:29.

Zebulun "did not dispossess the inhabitants of Kitron". Judges 1:30. "Asher did not dispossess the inhabitants of Accho". Judges 1:31. "Naphtali did not dispossess the inhabitants of Beth-shemesh", Judges 1:33 and so on. And then it says in chapter 2, "The angel of Jehovah came up from Gilgal to Bochim". Judges 2:1. The angel comes in to express the mind of heaven about the position. He says, "I have brought you to the land which I swore unto your fathers, and I said I will never break my covenant with you; and as for you, ye shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars; but ye have not hearkened unto my voice". And then it says, "The people lifted up their voice and wept". Judges 2:1 - 4. There was a certain amount of repentance. That is how the matter ends. And then you have a new history taken up from the divine side. In verse 6, "Joshua dismissed the people"; Judges 2:6 and so right down to the end of chapter 2 you have the history from the divine side. God raises up judges, and was with the judge. So that it is now a question of the judge, whoever he may be. It says in chapter 2:18, "When Jehovah raised them up judges, then Jehovah was with the judge, and saved them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge". Judges 2:18. Hence the judge becomes of immense importance from this point onwards, whoever he or she may be.

W.P. Does what we get here answer in some way to Revelation 2 and 3?

J.T. Yes, quite.

Ques. Would the judges answer to the overcomer in a measure?

J.T. In a certain way. The overcomer is the link with God, the influential link, and he becomes, I think, the Lord's representative.

A.H. Would it answer to the angel in that way?

J.T. Well, the angel is more the responsible element in the assembly, and therefore would include

everybody; it places an obligation on you. Of course, the overcomer would take it up more definitely; he would take up the message with more heart and definiteness than anyone would.

W.P. And I suppose it would be the overcomer that the Lord could use in deliverance.

J.T. Just so.

W.J.W. Is it the breakdown of the public position that brings the angel into view?

J.T. Yes. It suggests distance. It is the Lord's angel in Revelation, His own angel, and then the angel of the assembly. The angel of the assembly is the representative of the assembly, but that works out in the way that every individual in it is brought in, because everyone is responsible. No one can disclaim responsibility. It is well to notice the two angels, or rather the Lord's, and then the seven angels of the assemblies. The one is the direct representative of the Lord, and the others are representative of the assemblies. But I suggested these passages because they bring out what, in a way, corresponds with what we have been saying. Deborah dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah. That refers to what she was personally, I apprehend. It denoted, I think, personal victory. She was an overcomer herself.