Genesis 8:20 - 22; Genesis 22:9 - 18; Exodus 29:38 - 46

R.S.S. It has been thought that it would be helpful to consider something in connection with what is due to God. I am sure that we would all desire to be more characterised by taking account of this. It is natural, for us to consider things connected with ourselves, and our own blessings, but is it not true that when we begin to consider for God, we make a distinct advance in our souls? "Thy praise our service is". When we think of the pleasure of God we naturally turn to a scripture like Genesis 8, where Noah was coming out of the ark, and God was making a new beguiling altogether, and where Noah offered burnt-offerings of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl. Of every kind Noah made an offering. Of the clean there were seven pairs, showing that God had anticipated this event before Noah went into the ark. "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens ... .. and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female; of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female". Genesis 7:2,3.

J.T. What seems interesting in this connection is the trustworthiness of the man into whose hands things were committed. In chapter 5 Noah's birth is recorded and special reference is made to his name, and then to the years of his life, so that he had had opportunity to prove what he was in the midst of hitherto unparalleled corruption. Then in chapter 6, as God's grief in having created man is mentioned, it is said that Noah found favour in the eyes of Jehovah. Then, "This is the history of Noah: Noah was a just man, perfect amongst his generations: Noah walked with God. And Noah begot three sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth. And the earth was corrupt before God, and the earth was full of violence. ….. And God said to Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me". Genesis 6:9 - 13

Then we find dates standing in relation to his birth; so the Lord, I suppose, has brought our attention typically to his personal worth in the midst of corruption. Hence the thoughts of God, and the means of carrying them through the judgment are all entrusted to one man, and the new world is marked off as dating from him. It says he was six hundred years old when the flood of waters came upon the earth, and when he went into the ark.

D.L.H. He is a type of Christ in this regard.

J.T. I thought so. The personal character of the man is brought to our attention and the verses read justify that -- how he thought for God at the outset. Then he was entirely subject, and made no move, although the ark had rested and the earth was dry; until (as we read) God spoke to him and told Him to go out of the ark. He went out by divine direction.

F.H.B. It is remarkable there should be a distinction between the clean and the unclean. How should Noah know the difference?

J.T. That puts us all to the test -- how are we to find out the clean and the unclean? It is assumed that he knew. His personal character would show that he had the means of discerning. He evidently had his senses exercised so that he could discern between good and evil.

J.Jy. Is it not assumed that he had the light of Abel and Enoch?

J.T. The light is cumulative right through. He would have the light of Enoch, who walked with God for three hundred years. In that period there would be some instincts developed to discern between what is clean and what is unclean.

R.S.S. That discernment was very important when it became a question of what he offered to God.

J.T. There must have been some anticipation of the direct instructions in Leviticus, as to what is clean and unclean.

E.J.McB. Would it not be true in a man's history with God that he would discern the direction in which things went under influence? Those amenable to good influence would be clean.

J.T. What seems to be of importance is that Noah had the clean creatures there and knew what to do with them. They were available to express his appreciation of the God whom he had come, in some measure, to know.

E.J.McB. Would that be a development of the thought of Abel offering to God?

J.T. I think so. "Every clean animal and, of all clean fowl". There was no selfish reserve; God was before him, and nothing was held back.

D.L.H. You were speaking of our side and God's side; is our side wholly absent from the burnt-offering?

R.S.S. I was rather thinking of our side of things as in connection with our need.

D.L.H. Otherwise you do get the thought of our acceptance in the burnt-offering from the very outset.

J.T. The distinction accorded to Noah as the head strikes one, and then the beautiful suggestion of Noah waiting for divine direction before he went out of the ark; then without any direction, building the altar. It all indicates the place God evidently had with him, and how there was no reservation. He took of every clean animal and of every clean fowl, and offered up burnt-offerings on the altar.

P.W. Is it not always the case that the teaching of God in our souls coincides with the subsequent instruction of God to us? That might account for Noah knowing what clean things were. It was first of all what God had taught him in his soul.

J.T. Light having come in. What Abel had was

carried through. What our brother has in mind is the place God had with him, and how unreserved he was with every clean animal, and all clean fowls. We do not know the duration of the service, but it must have been very delightful to God.

R.S.S. Then there is the wonderful response from God. He smelled a sweet savour. It was really Christ. It goes onto say, "And the Lord smelled a sweet savour, and the Lord said in His heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake ... . while the earth remaineth, seed-time and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night, shall not cease". Evidently this was the response on God's part; He was so delighted with what was presented to Him that the curse was removed, I think before the flood man had a hard time to make a living, but now that the curse is removed, things are largely changed. God also changed man's food "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things". Genesis 9:3.

J.T. The reference to God's heart is very touching in this section, chapter 6:6. The very depth of His being was affected by man: "It grieved him in his heart". Genesis 6:6. And now He says in His heart (chapter 8:21): "I will, no more henceforth curse the ground on account of man".

J.C.S. Would the sacrifices embrace every feature of Christ?

J.T. There would be in each of the various creatures some suggestion of Christ.

F.R.B. How God's heart was affected by man's sin and how relieved by Noah's offering!

J.T. It was a striking comment relative to his knowledge of God -- what he acquired in his early life before he entered the ark and what he acquired in the ark as he moved about day by day in it, where there were these creatures, each conveying its own

distinctive thought. I am sure he would have a good time of meditation, and acquiring an increased knowledge of God. It is due to God, now that he is on the renewed earth, that all that he had that was suitable to God, should be presented unreservedly.

Y.Y.L. It says he offered to "Jehovah", not to 'God'.

J.T. We have to take account of the standpoint of the writers; Moses would refer to God according to his own knowledge of Him.

W.J.H. Selfishness has brought in the grief. The sweet odour of 'rest' seems to suggest the son of consolation, Barnabas, in the midst of a scene where everyone was holding things for themselves. He gave everything; he was a son of consolation.

J.T. In the very outset of our history we have inculcated the principle of sacrifice. Romans develops the principle, so that the first exhortation is, "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the compassions of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice". Romans 12:1. The principle is that that which is most valuable in your mind is to be given to God.

R.S.S. The outgoings on our part Godward are in proportion to our knowledge of Him.

J.T. Verse 22: He begins with seed-time, then harvest then cold and heat, then summer and winter, and finally day and night. All these have reference to experience, so that "the days of the earth" should give opportunity for God and the activity of His goodness. There should be seed-time and harvest. He gives opportunity for seed sowing, which we may view spiritually. The first chapter indicates trees "the seed of which is in them". Genesis 1:11. Noah would have in mind the kind of seed that should be sown. He would avoid producing a world like that which had just been destroyed. The seed to be sown would be such as would be suitable to God.

P.L. Had not the Fall been succeeded by a very

unholy mixture? The word is we are not to sow with mixed seed.

J.T. You would be concerned about a wholly right seed, because the world is the product of corruption. We have to see that the seed we sow is what is suitable to God. On the third day of creation, the earth emerged from the waters of death containing, doubtless, latent fertility; then came the command of God, "Let the earth cause grass to spring up, herb producing seed", etc. Genesis 1:11. And it brought forth that which is pleasing to the eye. Now it is again renewed, so the idea of sowing should be kept in view. If Noah and his posterity followed out this first movement in offering to God, they would be careful as to the sowing, because the offerings in the types not only included living creatures, but the fruit of the land as well. Cain's offering would have been right if it had been in its proper setting. As a meat-offering it would have been right and acceptable if there had been an accompanying burnt-offering -- if the need of death had been recognised.

R.S.S. Abraham does not hold back the dearest thing his heart possessed when God called for it. We see the pleasure and delight that God had in the giving up of his only son: "Because thou….. hast not withheld thy son, thine only son". It is so beautiful the way in which God comes in for him and promises everything to him in connection with his seed, which should be "As the stars of heaven, and as the sand that is on the sea shore". How slow we are to render to God that which costs us something!

H.D'A.C. How it must have spoken to God about what was coming -- the gift of His own Son! That there should have been a man on divine lines in giving his son! What holy joy that must have brought to God!

R.S.S. Even if there were only one man on earth who could enter into His feelings in giving His son.

H.D'A.C. That man the "father of us all". Romans 4:16.

R.S.S. It was, as we know from Hebrews 11, his knowledge of God that led him to do it. He counted that God was able to raise him up even from the dead.

H.D'A.C. He could hardly have done it at the beginning; he had to be trained for it.

J.T. What is developed in Abraham is the great thought of the family, so that the blessing is not the earth itself, but men or nations; persons now are in view, One great feature of Genesis is the paternal: "Thine only son, Isaac, whom thou lovest": Genesis 22:2 there is that relation; then there is maturity and productiveness in the ram. The basis is the great father as the source of all, and the dearest object of his affection and then the maturity in one detained and the power of productiveness.

E.J.McB. In the first case the features of the new earth coming out would call for all you have to be presented to God, but when it is a question of God testing you, coming near to you Himself, it finds out where your affections really live -- whether in your own interests or in the interests of God.

H.H. He did it in the spirit; of worship, "I and the lad will go yonder and worship". Genesis 22:5.

R.S.S. Yes, what was due to God.

J.T. Genesis 22:14. That is the great moral lesson to be deduced. No one knew better than Moses the meaning of Jehovah-jireh, because at the mount of Jehovah there were wonderful disclosures: the covenant, the tabernacle and the priesthood. The sign was, "Ye shall serve God upon this mountain", Exodus 3:12 but there was to be the supply for the service. What those abroad in Christendom do not understand is where the supply is to come from. Moses learned at the mount the wonderful provision of God as they tarried there in that great encampment before Horeb. "It is said at the present day, On the mount of Jehovah will be provided". Then it

says that Abraham returned to his young men and they rose up and went together to Beersheba -- not Abraham and Isaac now, but Abraham and his young men. You have reached the end of an exercise. They went down to Beersheba, full of precious light, to where God confirms things: the well of the oath.

E.J.McB. It makes room for the birth of Rebecca.

J.T. Rebecca comes into view at once (Genesis 22:23), so that you start a new day.

F.W.J. Abraham rejoiced to see Christ's day.

J.T. Now the end of an exercise is a flood of light; the whole future is taken care of, and you go down to where things are confirmed to your soul, and you begin another exercise. Speaking from heaven (chapter 21) is in relation with Isaac; it is after the birth of Isaac. So here there is the word from heaven, and Abraham is called twice from heaven. Heaven is intensely interested. Then Rebecca comes on the scene. Then Sarah dies; after every accession of light there is sorrow.

Exodus 29 would remind us of God's great delight in burnt-offerings morning and evening.

R.S.S. "Day by day continually" is a beautiful expression -- rather a searching one for us.

D.L.H. Were these two lambs morning and evening not wholly for God's pleasure -- no thought of acceptance but wholly for God's pleasure?

J.T. I thought so. This passage is amplified later in Numbers. As saints become more spiritual, after the Holy Spirit is given typically to Israel, God says, "My offering, my bread for my offerings. …. shall ye take heed to present to me at their set time". Numbers 28:2. He asserts what He would have. All our meetings are holy convocations. The first thought should be, Is God going to have anything out of this? You make provision for God. So in Numbers where the Holy Spirit is recognised, He definitely claims His everyday portion, then His weekly, then His monthly, and then

His yearly, and He says, You must not diminish the daily thing -- the morning and evening sacrifice. Sometimes when we have large meetings we overlook the little things that we go on with daily, but those must not be neglected. The morning and evening lamb would connect with the household.

E.J.McB. The relation of the believer, as set free from the scene of confusion, is that he is here for God. Then comes the personal test; God becomes everything to him. Then he stands related to God's system of things. If we have more of this line, God might put His interests in a place more in connection with us. Supposing the Lord were to work with a dozen converts in a city, is there the kind of thing in the meeting there that works with the interests of God so that He could put such in relation to you? It carries an exercise as to whether we are going on with brethren's meetings, or are we definitely concerned in regard to what is of God?

J.J. Would the morning and evening lamb suggest an appreciation that the household has of Christ?

J.T. Yes, especially in Numbers, which I was connecting with the Spirit, and which is not necessarily restricted to our convocations. In Exodus it is more the tabernacle, with a view to God speaking to us, so that I think it would come out more in our convocations -- God's pleasure. It would enable Him to speak to us. "A continual burnt-offering throughout your generations at the entrance of the tent of meeting before Jehovah, where I will meet with you, to speak there with thee. And there will I meet with the children of Israel; and it shall be hallowed by my glory". You get divine communications, and the divine presence, "It shall be hallowed by my glory".

H.H. The end of the dispensation is of as great value to God as the beginning, and we are living in the time of the offering up of the evening lamb.

J.T. I think that the morning and evening sacrifice

would signify that the evening is equal to the morning. You start out fresh, and you offer your morning sacrifice. How will it be in the evening? Have you spiritual power for that?

W.J.H. It would depend a good deal on whether we could lift up our hands in the evening. It raises the question as to whether they are clean or not. Are we prepared to go into the presence of God in the evening and show our hands?

P.L. Elijah, Ezra and Daniel all appeared before God at the time of the evening sacrifices and God answered them.

R.S.S. The meat-offering and the drink-offering accompany the offerings in Exodus 29.

J.T. There is the humanity of our Lord Jesus Christ in the meat-offering; the drink-offering I suppose is the Spirit.

F.K. These three were never separated.

J.T. As we proceed with the testimony into Chronicles, where the first word is Adam, we have the Holy Spirit linking up everything with David and Solomon, and in the dedication of the temple, the immensity of the offerings (one hundred and twenty thousand sheep), shows the great enlargement as we advance in the knowledge of God.

F.W.B. Just before this He speaks of a daily sin-offering. Exodus 29:36.

J.T. That would be our side, dealing with conditions amongst us.

F.W.B. So that we might be free to appreciate Christ in the character of the burnt-offering.

F.S.M. Would the two lambs be suggestive of the two aspects of the offerings of Christ: the morning lamb, "Lo, I come to do thy will"; Hebrews 10:9 the evening lamb, having reference to His death? The saints down here in appreciation of Christ in this peculiar character, involves constant sweet savour going up

to God -- the continuity of it -- not simply what we offer up in the morning and evening.

J.T. Every day filled up so delightfully with Christ in the saints.

F.S.M. There is never a moment when there is not a sweet savour going up to God. Someone is thinking of Christ somewhere.

W.J.H. It is not what God hears, but there is a savour -- the sense of smell comes in.

J.T. It is that sense which is keenest; the palate comes in next.

W.J.H. It is what we are that gives the savour. Before the flood the corruption that existed comes in in contrast with the smelling of the sweet savour of rest afterwards.

J.T. In Genesis 27, Isaac says, "See, the smell of my son is as the smell of a field which Jehovah hath blessed". Genesis 27:27. It suggests great productiveness.

WHAT IT IS TO BE HERE FOR GOD

Hebrews 2:11 - 13; John 4:19 - 26; Ephesians 3:20,21

R.S.S. What we had before us in the afternoon, and what was in my mind as to the subject of our two meetings was what it is to be here for God. There was Noah's sacrifice and God smelling a sweet savour. Noah offered of every clean beast and of every clean fowl, which had been carried through in the ark. This would show that that which was most precious (in view of the cleansed scene which had now to be filled with living creatures) was offered to God, being really more important as having Him in view. Doubtless with that burnt-offering in view Noah had taken seven pairs of every clean beast and of every clean fowl, and only one pair of the unclean; thus what was due to God was contemplated when going into the ark. Then we considered Abraham offering his son Isaac, and God's intense appreciation of what he had done -- that he had not spared his only son. God spoke to him twice from heaven, the second time blessing him limitlessly -- his seed should be as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the sea shore, and in it, all nations of the earth should be blessed. It suggests therefore not only what God received, but the response which He gives when what is His due has been rendered to Him.

Then we looked at a few verses at the end of Exodus relative to the morning and evening sacrifice the continual burnt-offering in connection with which it was God's pleasure to dwell with Israel and to be their God.

It was thought that tonight we might look at the New Testament where what is due to God is largely comprehended in the word 'worship'. Here in Hebrews where the Lord says, "In the midst of the assembly will I sing praise unto thee",

we have the Lord Himself as the Worshipper. One has been struck with this expression in one of Mr. Bevir's hymns, and it opens up a field of thought in connection with the Lord as the Worshipper -- speaking of Him in that way as Man. We rejoice to join in "The praises led by thy beloved". (Hymn 94). What a delight it is to God, and what a privilege for us!

In John 4, we have the Lord speaking of what the Father seeks, addressing Himself to a woman who was an outcast, and yet the Lord comes through Samaria to meet her. She was one seeking satisfaction in an utterly wrong direction, and the Lord, in His own marvellous way, teaches her that in her seeking it was only to thirst again, but that "Whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst for ever". He opens up to her the region of satisfied desire, and that is largely found in connection with God revealed to us as Father. One of the disciples said, "Lord, shew us the Father and it sufficeth us". John 14:8. Evidently there is satisfaction to be found in connection with the Father that is not found anywhere else. The Lord unfolds what worship is in spirit and in truth, and that it is the Father who seeks worshippers.

Our brother suggested the last verses we read in Ephesians 3, which very fittingly connected with what we are speaking of just now. It is an immense privilege that we can be employed even now as we shall be when home in the Father's house. I daresay a good many of us have been brought up in system, and know how nothing is found there of worship in spirit and in truth. Our great thankfulness may well be that we find ourselves where we can join in worship that is delightful to God.

H.D'A.C. I had that thought very much before me this day, and for this reason, that it has been said you could not speak of Jesus as a Worshipper, but I

have thought that surely if He was the praying Man, He must also be the worshipping Man, and I have wondered whether in this passage, "The hour cometh and now is", He had not already begun in His own Person that genuine worship which the Father will have through all eternity, and whether He was bringing it about that others might be with Him in it.

R.S.S. I should certainly think so.

D.L.H. Have you some hesitation in your mind?

J.T. Well, the Lord's Person is guarded here in "He that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one". The Lord's Person is carefully guarded in this epistle to the Hebrews, as chapter 1 shows.

H.D'A.C. As the Sanctifier?

J.T. Yes; we are linked on with Him as "of one", but His personal distinction is maintained in that He is said to be the Sanctifier.

F.E.M. You spoke of the Lord coming to our side, and on the other hand as Himself being the true Worshipper. Had you in your mind that there is a sort of double identification: the Lord identifying Himself with the worshipping company and on the other hand identifying the worshipping company with Him? I thought in that way the worshippers entered into His thoughts, and His appreciation of God.

R.S.S. I would go with that. Would you?

J.T. As I remarked, you have in this epistle the truth of His Person fully guarded and set out first. The Lord is brought before us in this epistle in the first chapter and in the opening of this chapter, so that we know who He is; keeping this in view, I suppose it is quite just to say that He leads the worshipping company.

W.C.G. It says, "In the midst of the assembly will I sing praise unto thee".

J.T. We need to have clearly in our souls the "history". Genesis is divided up to some extent in

that way; the history of the heavens and the earth; the history of Adam; the history of Noah. You get thus a knowledge of the persons, and keep that in view. David's history is given to us in Chronicles, where he is seen as head. So if we keep distinctly before us the Person of the Lord as presented in chapter 1, we can take up chapter 2 and see the length to which He goes as a Man. Hence, He says, "My God". "I ascend to my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God". John 20:17. Those two thoughts run together, and I think what has been said as regards worship is therefore quite just if guarded. He takes a place with us: "My God and your God"; but not 'our God'. There is always that distinction that the spiritual mind recognises. He speaks on the ground of His own Person, and His distinction is marked.

E.R. "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve" Matthew 4:10, Luke 4:8; He takes the place of Man there.

A.S.L. Is that the reason why He is not ashamed to call them brethren?

R.S.S. Was there anything suggested you would have a hesitation in agreeing with?

J.T. I should not like to emphasise the word 'worshipper', whilst the thought is there I quite admit.

F.H.B. Because He is God Himself.

J.T. In the last chapter of 1 Chronicles, David is speaking from the standpoint of the people to God. He speaks to God in beautiful expressions of worship, and then the people worshipped Jehovah and the King. There is that distinction; the King represented divine authority -- God Himself indeed.

H.D'A.C. When He was on earth He was alone, and when He prayed, He prayed as no man would have prayed -- certainly a praying Man, absolutely dependent upon God, and in constant holy intercourse

with God -- then surely would come the intensest delight in God, and the whole being as Man taken up with God. Is that wrong?

J.T. Not at all. He says, "I praise thee, Father". Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21. He is praying in a certain place; it is He who is doing it -- there is that distinction. His disciples asked Him to teach them to pray.

R.S.S. And the Lord never prayed with His disciples. He taught them to pray but never prayed with them. That is your thought in connection with worship too? They were of one order, and He was of another. It would be different now, after His resurrection.

J.T. But it is, "In the midst of the congregation will I praise thee". The nearest approach you get to the mutual is after the Supper: "When they had sung an hymn". Matthew 26:30, Mark 14:26. But it is not said that it was to God. In Hebrews 2, He praises through the saints, I think.

F.J.F. Is that why singing comes in: "Will I praise thee with singing?"

H.F.N. You would have a hesitation in stating formally that the Lord was a Worshipper?

J.T. I would not speak of Him as one of the worshippers.

A.S.L. The thought expressed was The Worshipper. "In the midst ... .. will I sing praise". Is not that tantamount to speaking of Him as the Worshipper? I thought in connection with "The hour is coming and now is", that the hour had already struck, because He was here by Himself in it, the first and only true Worshipper.

J.T. It is worshippers there: "The Father seeketh such"; it is the true worshippers He seeks. I do not think we should include the Lord Himself there. But of course everything has to be learned from Him.

F.H.B. Some have questioned the rightness of worshipping Christ the Son.

J.T. That would be very bad. All have to honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.

R.S.S. "Let all the angels of God worship him". Hebrews 1:6.

W.J.H. The Lord Jesus is to be worshipped by the remnant: "He is thy Lord and worship thou him", Psalm 45:11.

J.C.S. Speaking of Him as the Worshipper might lead to a certain freeness.

J.T. It is a question of the wisdom of terms. The wise man, it says, sought out suitable words, so that no wrong thought should be conveyed.

E.J.M. He is the Head.

J.T. There again you have distinctiveness. In all things He has the pre-eminence.

D.L.H. With regard to the type of Aaron and his sons we get the thought of the priestly company in its approach Godward. Now the whole priestly family hung upon Aaron. Is there not in the case of the blessed Lord still that thought; that while He stands, of course, in a sense, pre-eminent and alone, yet there are those identified with Him as His sons on the priestly line?

J.T. Even there it is "Aaron and his sons". We thus should never lose sight of the Person. As we were saying last night about Peter: had he had the truth of the Person in his soul when they said, "Doth not your master pay tribute?" Matthew 17:24 he would have known what to say. God had just announced from heaven, "This is my beloved Son". Matthew 17:5.

R.S.S. The truth of association is largely linked with position. We should be careful to emphasise His pre-eminence.

J.T. If you have the truth of the Person in your soul, you are always right. It is the same Person whether He is declaring the Father, or whether He is singing to Him. It is He who is doing it.

H.F.N. Would the thought of John 4 be on a higher plane than Hebrews 2

J.T. The point in John 4 is that there should be worshippers and that their worship should be in spirit and in truth; the Father was seeking them. But the point in the passage before us is the Lord's being on our side so as to dignify us; that we are all of one, that is, one kind, of His order. Worship as in John 4, certainly conveys more than singing praises. There is more intensity of feeling in regard to the One worshipped.

J.B.C-E. Would the idea be that the Son as the Sanctifier secures what the Father seeks? The first impression of the Lord's glory is that He could secure the worshipping company.

J.T. You have in your mind, "He that sanctifieth". Think of a Person who can sanctify! Think of what is involved in that!

J.B.C-E. This sanctification would be specifically in relation to the object in view -- worshippers for the Father. I thought that in the earlier part of the day the principle of sanctification was touched upon; but not quite in the connection in which you are viewing it now.

J.T. "He that sanctifieth". His work of sanctification opens up an immense theme until we arrive at this point: that we are one with Him.

F.E.M. Sanctification by association with Him.

J.T. But it involves His death -- that of the Sanctifier. "This is the history of Noah". Genesis 6:9. You get before your soul a person who is taken up; he is found in the favour of God. So in chapter 1 you get the truth of His Person, here you get the Sanctifier; the point in chapter 2 is to bring out His identification with us, because it is the Man. The sanctification involves His death, but now we have arrived at the top and saints are identified with Him as all of one. You could hardly get a stronger expression as to what we are.

R.S.S. But it emphasises the immensity of His

work: "He that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one".

W.C.G. Corresponding with John 17?

J.T. It is the same thing; He set Himself apart through death, but it is there by the truth, the application of the truth. Here the whole thing is put together to lead up to this top part of the truth: "All of one".

F.H.B. The point is not 'one', but "of one".

J.J. All these things stated in Hebrews 1 and 2 set forth His greatness.

J.T. The first chapter particularly; the second brings us in, so there is no disparity in the company.

F.E.M. The chapter sets out the Lord's humanity and so this great truth regarding our correspondence with Him is brought out among other things. It is in view of our being taken in to God.

J.B.C-E. Does the fourth chapter of John give us the part to which our brother is alluding now? The Lord is minister of the love of God in order that souls may be secured as worshippers. The epistle to the Hebrews appears to state the divine thought, but John 4 the ministry necessary as having that in view.

R.S.S. What is worship? We have been speaking about the worshippers.

J.T. I thought the verses we read in Ephesians illustrate what it is -- the outgoing of the heart Godward, whether it be in the light of what He is as revealed in nature or in His counsels. It is seen, I think, in the movement of Paul's heart Godward as dealing with these great things. "To him be glory in the assembly". His heart is so full of the thing that it goes out to God in that way. The word in John 4 denotes great intensity of affection; as knowing God the worshipper is absorbed in Him.

F.H.B. There are two words used for worship. We worship by the Spirit in Philippians, is not the same as in John 4 (Philippians 3:3). The first would take in all that is

rendered to God, whether in thanksgiving, praise or adoration, whereas in John 4 it is more adoration itself.

H.D'A.C. In Hebrews it is, "I will hymn thee"; God is the hymn in Hebrews, and the Father is the Object of worship in John 4.

J.T. "I will sing thy praises". Sonship underlies worship, but we worship as in family relationship with God, and also as men.

R.S.S. Worship is connected with His nature and being -- that would be your apprehension -- and also with His counsels.

J.T. Yes, I thought Ephesians would be a sort of top note for us to finish on in this enquiry. God is thinking of you; it is you He is enjoying; and you are thinking of Him and adoring Him.

H.F.N. Is that why Jacob is singled out among the Old Testament saints as a great typical worshipper, in Hebrews 11?

J.T. It seems to be the highest note struck in Genesis. An old man from the standpoint of the world, a Syrian ready to perish, but he strengthens himself on the bed, leaning upon the top of his staff -- indicating the experience he had with God -- and he worshipped God. In Ephesians "God and Father" is made prominent; therefore it is on the highest plane. You also get the word 'fulness', because such great results are contemplated. There is "The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ", Ephesians 1:3 and then "The Father of glory". Ephesians 1:17. You are led to the source of things -- to the heart of God, not only as coming in in the gospel, but also in relation to His counsel.

F.P. With regard to Hebrews, is there a suggestion of the Father when He says, "I will declare thy Name unto my brethren"?

J.T. No doubt, only the Father is not characteristic of Hebrews, it is more God.

Ques. What is the difference between worship

and praise -- is praise the outcome of a worshipping spirit?

J.T. It is; only I think that worship is more subdued. In a general way worship includes all that goes up to God from the saints, whether praise or adoration; but John 4 indicates such occupation with God and such feelings of reverent affection that may not be expressed audibly.

R.S.S. Worship is in connection with what He is; therefore your ability to worship is according to your knowledge of God.

H.D'A.C. Is the assembly gathered in Hebrews 2?

J.T. The word would indicate that it is gathered. "In the midst" would involve this.

Ques. What is the thought in the holy priesthood offering up spiritual sacrifices?

J.T. The idea of sacrifices does not go quite as far as worship as we are speaking of it. The allusion is to the court of the tabernacle; that is where the sacrifices were offered; but what we are dealing with goes beyond that. The golden altar is the place for prayer; the holiest of all is the place for worship, not that one would deny that the beginning is in the court. Leviticus indicates that God is in the tabernacle to be approached. Therefore as a man draws near with his offering, that is what he had in his mind, and the full consummation is the holiest. John does not dwell on the assembly at all as such -- he does not use the word in his gospel. Even when you come to chapter 20 the saints are not contemplated together; it is, "Where the disciples were". John 20:19. It is therefore a question of my relation with God -- my knowing God revealed and my relation with Him, it is the persons rather than what they are collectively.

F.E.M. I thought worshipping the Father involved sons.

J.T. I think it does, as I said, but that does not

shut a son out, because that is what John is aiming at -- to make room for the individual: "He that hath my commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me ... and I will manifest myself to him" John 14:21 -- "If anyone love me he will keep my word; and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him and make our abode with him". John 14:23. Paul, personally, is worshipping here when he says, "To him be glory in the assembly"; it is the outgoing of his heart to God.

Ques. Is the company properly made up of individuals of that kind?

J.T. Quite.

H.D'A.C. I thought there was a constant worship of God all over the world at every moment -- a worship of hearts deeply impressed by God.

J.T. It is not a question in John of gathering together, or a place, but of persons. What I think you get in John is that the family is developed. You get the persons who form the family, and then the priestly economy as built up on that. He breathes into them the Holy Spirit. In drawing near to God there must be an element of priesthood; that is, the element of holiness.

H.H. We used to connect the holiest with the meeting, but F.E.R. said the holiest was available to us apart from the meetings.

J.T. Certainly; it is in my power to enter the holiest, so that I may be able to take my place in the assembly. It is as having entered the holiest that I know my place in the assembly; I am there according to God.

F.P. Sonship lies behind the thought of priesthood.

J.T. So John aims at securing the family -- to gather together in one the children of God scattered abroad; but if you do not bring in the priestly element you do not have "a place for the Lord", Psalm 132:5.

E.J.McB. In John 9 you have a sample case.

A.S.L. And in that man you see what worship is.

Rem. If you have not the priestly element you have not the service of God.

J.T. That is how the matter stands in Scripture. The great burden of Genesis is to bring in the family; they are carried over and numbered at the beginning of Exodus. Then God appears to Moses, and He impresses him with holiness. We are now approaching the mediatorial system, with which the priest is connected; and then He says, "This shall be a token unto thee ... ye shall serve God upon this mountain". Exodus 3:12. And he says to Pharaoh, "Let my son go that he may serve me". Exodus 4:23. The family thought is underneath, but God is worshipped in holiness, and thus the need of priesthood.

Then in the sixth chapter the genealogy is brought in again until we come to Levi, when there is no more, because it is a question of the priestly system that is before us. If it were the family of Jacob it would be all the tribes, but that is already given. So you get the genealogy as far as Levi, then we read, "These are that Aaron and Moses, to whom the Lord said, Bring out the children of Israel ... ..." Exodus 6:27.

So in the Psalms; if we take the Songs of degrees, we come up to the brethren, the family, in Psalm 133, and then in the next Psalm, the last of the Songs of degrees, we have those who stand by night in the house of the Lord. From that point onwards we have the great celebrations of praise to God: "Bless the Lord, O house of Israel: bless the Lord, O house of Aaron: bless the Lord, O house of Levi: ye that fear the Lord, bless the Lord", Psalm 135:19,20 and one psalm after another follows, breathing out praise to God, but only through the priests.

In the New Testament, John's ministry is to bring out the family; and then, the family secured, to

bring out the priesthood, the Holy Spirit being breathed upon them in John 20.

At the close of the previous dispensation, in Malachi, you see the mind of God in regard to the priests; he gives you a description of Levi that you do not get anywhere else. "Ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith Jehovah of hosts. My covenant with him was of life and peace; and I gave them to him that he might fear; and he feared me and trembled before my name. The law of truth was in his mouth". Malachi 2:4 - 6. That is one of the most important things in regard to the priests: the law of truthfulness. "Unrighteousness was not found in his lips; he walked with me in peace and uprightness, and he turned many from iniquity. For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and at his mouth they seek the law; for he is the messenger of Jehovah of hosts". Malachi 2:6,7. If we have that at the present time, we have deliverance, turning people from iniquity, and maintaining what is due to God. We approach people because they belong to the family. That is what came out in the great Bethesda matter, the question of what is due to God. You say, They are all brethren, but then what about the priests? You must look out for the priests; that is the point in Malachi.

A.S.L. The proof of love is obedience.

H.D'A.C. There is a remarkable designation of priests in Hebrews, "Them ... that come unto God by him". Hebrews 7:25. And He lives to make intercession for them, Evidently the thought is that nothing should hinder this holy privilege of approach to God.

H.F.N. In regard to the message that Mary conveyed to the assembly, do you connect the mediatorial system with "My God", and the family with the thought of the Father? John 20:17.

J.T. The two things are there together; the gospel of John would bring the children of God

together. We are conscious at the end that we are brethren, not only on moral grounds, as in the synoptic gospels, but in John the term is connected with us in relation to divine counsels -- it is the mind of God for us. So that you have the family first, "My Father and your Father". I should connect the priestly system with "My God and your God". John 20:17. Knowing what is meant we can apply the truth to Gentile believers. The Ephesians were believers in the true sense of the word. They were not only professors, but they maintained what they believed; they were "faithful in Christ Jesus". Ephesians 1:1. The address to the Ephesians shows they were priests; they would conserve the truth. Even when the Lord addressed them later, in Revelation, they were conserving the truth, although they were getting away on the side of love. They were therefore priests.

D.L.H. Have we not a suggestion of the line on which worship is found at the end of the doxology in Romans 11:36 "For of him, and through him, and for him, are all things: to him be glory for ever Amen"? I thought that shows what we might call the flow and return, the return being the worship.

J.T. So you have in that chapter the word 'fulness', which it would be well to notice. You have the fulness of Israel, then you have the fulness of the Gentiles. That is to say, you look abroad on the earth, and you see the crops in bloom. There is the earth's fulness, this full result of the sowing.

So you take Israel: what sowing has been there! Is not God going to have results? He is -- the full result of the divine sowing, as Hosea puts it. The Lord will sow and He will have a full crop; hence the fulness of the Gentiles. The gospel going out has brought in such results as the fulness of the Gentiles; then in Ephesians we come to the fulness of Christ, which the assembly, His body, is. There is the full

result, that in which He is seen, the fulness of Christ. In chapter 3 the fulness of God, as if you were to think of the blessed God as the source of all, and of what had come out.

H.H. Worship is connected in that way with a full and overflowing cup.

J.T. God has been thinking all the time of certain persons; that is the wonderful thing. He tells the woman of Samaria the kind of persons He wants. God is a Spirit and He seeks worshippers to worship Him in spirit and in truth.

H.W. Sonship is the height of God's thought today for His people, and everything, priesthood included, is to be reached on the line of sonship.

J.T. "Filled with all the fulness of God". Ephesians 3:19. I can only understand eternity as that in which I shall have part, the result of God coming out. It is the fulness of God; it is not simply that I am filled unto God, but unto all the fulness of God -- what God is. So that "He that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God and God in him". 1 John 4:16. There will be One there whom we shall know personally, but as regards where we are, it is the fulness of God. I think it will be the full result of all that God is as having come out. If you take the idea of being filled in Colossians, it is an exclusive idea; that is, you do not need anything else. We need nothing outside of Him: "Ye are complete in him". Colossians 2:10. But in Ephesians it is Himself as revealed and all the blessed eternal results that He has effected. We are "filled to all the fulness of God:" Ephesians 3:19.

Pages 27 - 206 -- "Notes of Readings and Addresses", Scotland, 1926 (Volume 85)

SOVEREIGNTY AND MUTUALITY

Luke 24:33 - 45; 1 Chronicles 12:38 - 40

There is a certain relation between the gospel of Luke and the book of Chronicles. Taken together they trace the testimony from the beginning. Chronicles begins with Adam and leads us on to David, who restored the priestly service under twenty-four courses. A man who thus restored the priesthood in that extended way, provides for the service of God, and he is concerned that all that is connected with God should be in accord with Him. Now Luke takes up these twenty-four courses of priesthood in introducing Zacharias, who belonged to one of these courses, and his wife Elizabeth, who was of the daughters of Aaron; so that we have in the opening of Luke the priestly feature emphasised, and throughout his narrative we find that he keeps in view that there should be that here in this world which would be according to God -- that in which the service of God should be maintained in a priestly way, and that the testimony of God should go forth in suitable dignity.

Hence the Lord said to His apostles, before leaving them, that they should remain in the city of Jerusalem until they were clothed with power from on high. Repentance and remission of sins should be preached to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem, but it should be preached by suitable preachers -- such as should be in accord with such a message to men; that is to say, they should be clothed with power from on high -- not with the habiliments that belong normally to professed servants. It is not a question of material clothes, but of spiritual clothes, and all who essay to

preach the gospel of repentance and remission of sins should see to it that they have these clothes. They are distributed from heaven. They are of heavenly material, and have, so to speak, the heavenly cut, so that even the apostles, wonderfully instructed as they were by the Lord, were to remain in the city of Jerusalem until they should be clothed with power from on high -- not simply power -- but power from on high.

And then we find the same persons, as if to confirm this great point of view in Luke, continually in the temple. The great High Priest Himself had lifted up His hands and blessed them, and as He blessed them He was parted from them and carried up into heaven. The kind of service He had rendered on earth as divinely presented by Luke, was such as heaven had pleasure in. We must never forget in our service that we have to say to heaven in regard to it. It is true that those who listen are to judge, but we have to say to heaven. We have to take account that heaven has to be pleased with it. If it be otherwise, we miss divine approval. And so Luke presented the personal service of Christ, and after He finishes His service on earth He is carried up. Heaven is so pleased with Him that He is carried up. It is not in Luke a question of His dignity as a divine Person, but as a man here in the service of God. And His service is so delightful, so simple, and heavenly in its character that heaven claims Him, and He was carried up into heaven. And then the disciples return to Jerusalem, it is said, with great joy, and were continually in the temple praising and blessing God.

Well now, I want to show you from these verses in chapter 24, as I proceed by the Lord's help, what was intended to be set out in the assembly, in other words, in those gathered, for Luke emphasises the idea of gathering. He alone presents to us the disciples in this way. They were gathered together. I

read from Chronicles to show you the correspondence with Luke in this regard. In the chapter I have read, David has become the gathering point. The Holy Spirit in that book, as I have said, begins with Adam, and leads up to David. In chapter 12 David is the centre of gathering. Jacob had said in his remarkable blessing of the tribes, that the sceptre should not depart from Judah until Shiloh came, and unto him should be the gathering of the people; that is to say, Christ was to be the centre of gathering. And as He becomes the centre of gathering, the house is set in order for God. So that in the next chapter to that which I have read in Chronicles, David consults with every captain and every leader, and appeals to all Israel that they should be assembled together to bring up the ark of God. If you have got the divine centre, and if you are gathered to that centre, then you will see how consideration that is according to God is obtained for the ark. David considered for the ark, for he said, "I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids, until I find out a place for the Lord, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob". Psalm 132:4,5. Then he says, too, "We heard of it at Ephratah; we found it in the fields of the wood". Psalm 132:6. Many of us hear of it, but few of us find it. It is one thing, beloved, to hear a thing, but it is another thing to find the thing; as Philip said, "We have found him". John 1:45. David heard of the ark and found the ark, and he would find a habitation for it -- no less than that -- a place in which God could rest, one in which there would be no disturbing element. That is what David had in his heart, so that he was a remarkable type of the Lord Jesus in that respect, who would not give sleep to His eyes or slumber to His eyelids, who could say, too, "the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up". Psalm 69:9. If the Lord took sleep, it was when need was not present, but when sinners were around Him, He was awake and active; and so David was

a fitting representative of Him. He consults with the captains and the leaders, and with all the people, and he assembled all Israel. In the principle of gathering, we must have in view every believer; sectional or party lines are not divine lines. You gather with the people, for Shiloh includes all the people.

David had that in view in order to bring up the ark, and then the place is prepared -- he spread a tent there.

Referring again to chapter 12, I shall go back to show you how David the king became the centre of gathering in three distinct connections. The first was in Ziklag, the second was in the wilderness, and the third was in Hebron. If we understand what it is to be gathered to the Lord, dear brethren, we have to analyse this twelfth chapter, and see what these different positions signify for us. A very great weight of responsibility attaches to us -- I mean to the assembly. As I was saying, in Chronicles the testimony begins with Adam and comes on to David. David had a true estimate of responsibility attaching to him, and so in regard to the building of the temple, he passes on the sense he had of the responsibility devolving upon him. If you read the closing chapters, you will see how perfect he was in the sense of responsibility. No one is of worth or moral value in the house of God save he who has the sense of responsibility. In the fourteenth chapter of 1 Corinthians -- a part of Scripture bearing directly on ourselves -- the apostle says, "The things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord". 1 Corinthians 14:37.

David cherished the principle of gathering, and he passed on to Solomon the whole burden of responsibility in regard to the testimony. There is the principle of passing on responsibility; and it has now come to us. Now, let no one shirk that. It is in seeing and accepting responsibility as to the testimony,

that you come into divine power. Divine power is available to support those in this responsibility, "upon whom the ends of the ages have come", 1 Corinthians 10:11. There may be someone here who has never faced responsibility. There is the responsibility of the sinner, as having to say to God about his sins, but redemption has been accomplished, and so, beloved, the Lord Jesus has taken up that responsibility and settled it for eternity for those who believe. Jerusalem had its opportunity in the Lord coming to it, but it refused it, and so it has come in for the awful responsibility of all the righteous blood shed upon the earth from Abel to Christ; and so that city is suffering today -- wrath having come upon them -- the Jew -- to the uttermost. The assembly began in Jerusalem free from all this, for God had dealt with the sin of its members. The members of the assembly were set up free from all such responsibility; but then the responsibility of the testimony has come to us: all that God has set out from Abel onward has come on us, and it has to be preserved by us until the Lord comes and takes it up again Himself. At the present time, the obligation of it rests with us.

But to refer again to chapter 12 David is bound up with the three positions indicated there. The first is in Ziklag. Certain ones came to him there, that is to say, certain of us come to Christ, so to speak, at Ziklag. Thus we have come into the light of Romans. Ziklag signifies that everything that was lost is recovered. We all know how the Amalekite invaded the land and took everything that was in the city. It was a disaster -- nothing less. David wept until he had no more power to weep, but then he encouraged himself in the Lord his God, and in that encouragement and in that strength he recovered all. Now that is written in view of the Lord. The Lord Jesus coming into this world felt the state of things. He could not but have felt, as no one else could, the

awful disaster that has come to the race. All was ruin -- all was seemingly irretrievably lost. I have no doubt that the weeping of David is a type of the Lord's own feeling even unto death -- "My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death". Matthew 26:38. He felt as no one could the awfulness of what had come in, for He knew the divine thoughts for man, but He recovered all. It is a great thing for you young people as gathered, as come into fellowship, to get that light into your souls. If the enemy seems to be triumphing, this light will stand by you, and the Lord Himself will stand by you; He will always do it, as we trust in Him.

Then, the next point of gathering is in the stronghold in the wilderness. That is another feature, and a very comforting one. In coming into fellowship you are being made conscious of hostile power. You are sure to be attacked. The enemy will never let you alone. He never does, and hence the need of the stronghold in the day of trouble, and that stronghold is where the Lord is, in the fellowship of the people of God, and it is the sphere of protection. I want you to note that the more you proceed on this line, the more encouraged you are, and the more recompensed you are. You find in the assembly that everything is recovered, nothing is lost, and then you find too in it a place of security. There are walls, and so it is a stronghold in the wilderness. But then you have to accept the wilderness. Ziklag is not exactly the wilderness; it represents, as I said, the recovery of everything for God, and for us, in Christ. But the wilderness is what the world has become to us. There is opposition in the wilderness, and we have to accept that, and in the accepting of it, we come to Christ for protection, so there is this sphere of protection-the stronghold in the wilderness.

Then, finally, there is Hebron. If you come to Christ in the light of Hebron, you get into the light

of the counsels of God. You find as you proceed in the gain of fellowship that you have come into a line of things that is outside of this world. Have we understood this? It is a new world, yet it is older than the present one, for it goes back to the counsels of God. Years in the realm of decay are one thing, but years in the realm of light, of life are another. Hebron is not years in the realm of decay. We have to do in this world with what is old, with what is decayed. In this world years are spent in the realm of darkness and death, but in Hebron we have what was before the world, as the apostle says in Corinthians, "The hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory". 1 Corinthians 2:7. It antedates this world, and as I said, has never come into the realm of death and darkness or of decay. Peter speaks of divine things as in relation to a world of suffering, but Hebron is what is before the world; the wisdom that God ordained before the world. What do we know of that, dear brethren? The wisdom of this world comes to nought, but the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the world to our glory is what we have part in, that is, as we understand the reality of what it is to be gathered to David in Hebron -- to Christ in the light of divine purpose.

What we read is that all these men who had gathered to David come with a perfect heart -- perfect in unison to make David king. David's men are not thinking of themselves, they are thinking of David, and what you find is that there is abundance; as it says in the passage, "And there they were with David ... .. eating and drinking". You see in it the thought of the assembly as gathered in one place -- come together for mutual contribution, and edification, and even an unbeliever is not excluded. We read as to those who came to Hebron, that "their brethren had prepared for them", and they were there eating and drinking for three days.

Now I want you just to note all that, as I wish to connect it with Luke 24. We have already noted that in the gathering in Chronicles, there is mutual contribution -- the place of gathering is the place of plenty, and being the place of plenty, it is the place of joy. There was great joy in Israel, and that is what we want in our meetings. Now in Luke 24 I want to show you how all this fits in and is worked out from the two principles of mutual confidence and sovereignty; because these are the principles that meet, in the place of gathering. Sovereignty in Chronicles is seen in David and in Judah. "For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came, the chief ruler", 1 Chronicles 5:2. It was a question of sovereignty, but then there was mutual confidence, and I want, by the Lord's help, to just say a word in a practical way on these two features. If we are to have spiritual plenty and joy, we must combine these things. Now in Luke 24 you have the two things brought in -- the honeycomb, and broiled fish. The former I take to be a suggestion of mutual contribution. Those who understand anything about bees, know that the feature that marks them is mutual contribution. On the other hand, there is the fish, and fish I take to represent sovereignty -- sovereign resources. I understand the waters of the ocean, covering as they do about two-thirds of the earth's surface, represent divine resources. Only God knows what they contain. Man may know what is on the surface of the earth. A census of people can be made, but no one can make a census of fish. I believe that in Scripture they represent divine resources. Now it is in the combination of these two things that I believe we shall get spiritual plenty in variety, and as a result spiritual joy. It is a poor thing if our meetings are not marked by these things -- spiritual abundance in variety and spiritual joy. Now I think that these two things are brought out in the first

epistle to the Corinthians. In chapter 12 you have the figure of the human body, and that illustration is the basis of the teaching there. It is a question of mutuality. The apostle says, "In the power of one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body ... and have all been given to drink of one Spirit". 1 Corinthians 12:13. Hence, having been baptised into one body in the power of one Spirit, and having been given to drink of one Spirit, that produces in the most positive way what is mutual, and so as I said the human body is the figure employed to emphasise this, for there are not diverse interests in that connection. Diverse interests in a gathering are sure to lead to personal feelings, and such feelings lead to division. We have all been made to drink of one Spirit. We are thus preserved in community of interest. But as baptised in the power of one Spirit, I am merged -- we are all merged into one body. And then we have all been made to drink into one Spirit, we all join in drinking of the same thing. As we partake of the Lord's supper, which is, I believe, the symbol of this, we are all drinking into the same thing. So that drinking is mutual interest. There is no independency on the one hand, and there is no clericalism on the other hand. There is the binding power of having been made to drink into one Spirit.

At the end of the chapter the apostle changes the word from 'body' to 'assembly' so we read, "God has set certain in the assembly: first apostles, secondly prophets; thirdly teachers". 1 Corinthians 12:28. Now there is sovereign choice. Mutual interest is one thing, but what God does is another thing, and God has been pleased to give gifts in sovereignty. It is not then a question of mutuality, but of divine resources; these are infinite, and we may rely upon them. God has set certain in the assembly, as set forth in the apostle's teaching, and that is a question of divine sovereignty -- of divine wisdom. Now the more mutual we are the more we

enter into the mutual side -- the more we shall make room for gift; for gift is an evidence of divine resource and is additional to what is mutual. Hence, dear brethren, we must make room for this additional truth, that of divine resources. If there are gifts in our midst, we want to make room for them, for the preaching belongs to them; the teaching belongs to them; prophecy belongs to them. There are certain things that hinge on gift, and if we do not make room for it, we shall miss the blessing. We do not want to preach without gift. Preaching is made to hinge on gift, and so we read of "Peter standing up with the eleven". Acts 2:14. I have known of meetings where brethren preach one after another. The assembly does not preach, the assembly does not teach. Preaching and teaching are made in Scripture to hinge on gift, and gift is the fruit of divine resource. The more room you make for it, the fresher you will be. But then you want to be sure that it is gift, and that God has set it there. God has set certain in the assembly; it does not say in the body, for the idea of the body is the mutual thing. All the saints come into that, but the idea of gift is divine resource, and the more room you make for divine resource the freer will be the meeting. It says of the Lord in Ephesians, "He has led captivity captive, and has given gifts to men" Ephesians 4:8; He has sent them forth and these gifts are for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, and as Paul says, "All are yours". 1 Corinthians 3:22. Nevertheless they are for the work of the ministry, and room must therefore be made for the gifts.

Well now, I take these two things set forth in doctrine by the apostle in 1 Corinthians 12 to be seen in this passage in a figurative way. Let me ask you here, in this meeting, have you got a mutual tie -- where everyone contributes for the mutual help, and where there is plenty in variety? What came out

in this particular instance was, "They gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb". It was not simply fish; that we get elsewhere, but it was broiled. It was brought under exercise. It had been brought through the fire. They gave Him that and of an honeycomb, and He ate both. They were made to realise in His eating how real a man He was. We know that He is God over all, but it is as man that He is Head of the assembly. If we are to understand His headship we have to understand Him as Head of His body, the assembly. Well, I wished specially to dwell on these two features -- the mutual and the sovereign. We must make room for both features, if we are to have plenty in variety, and if we are to have great joy.

Now just another word. The Lord, after this, says to them, "These are the words which I spake unto you ... which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me", verse 44. Now I want to say, dear brethren, that these scriptures bring in what greatly helps. Without them we cannot have these two features I have spoken about, so the Lord opens the scriptures here showing that they are in support and in keeping with the new position. For us the scriptures have to be unfolded by the Spirit. Here it is the Lord who calls attention to what is written, and I repeat we cannot have the two features without what is written. Everything must be according to what is written, and then later we read that "He opened their understanding to understand the scriptures", and thus they got the gain of what was written. The scriptures give the divine limitations -- they are the guard as to the truth. In what we say in the assembly it is a question of what is written. The Lord divides what is written under three heads: the law representing the rights of God, the prophets, the patience of God, and the psalms, the experiences of the saints. They are

records divinely given -- records of the rights of God in the law, of the patience of God in the prophets, and of the experience of the saints in the psalms. And they are written -- no room being left for conjecture -- and He gives us understanding. The disciples understood them, so that the assembly was thus set up in pattern. However studious we may be, we may make up our minds that we can only understand the scriptures as our understandings are opened by the Lord. "Then opened he their understanding that they might understand the scriptures".

May the Lord help us, dear brethren, to greater desire that there should be mutuality among the saints, and that thus we may reap the consequence of it -- there being great joy among the saints.

THE SANCTIFIED COMPANY

Judges 14,15; Hebrews 2:11,12; Hebrews 3:1,6 - 8; Hebrews 10:9,10,14 - 22

It is on my mind to address you this evening in regard of the sanctified company. God had before Him from the time that sin entered into the world to take out of the world in sanctification a company for Himself, and what comes to light is that this is worked out on the principle of exercise, Enoch being the first to speak of it. "Behold the Lord has come amidst his holy myriads to execute judgment against all". Jude refers to Enoch in this connection; he refers to him as "the seventh from Adam", the Holy Spirit by the expression 'seventh' evidently alluding to an exercise. There are exercises in a bad sense in this world; Cain and his posterity in chapter 4 of Genesis may be regarded in that light, and the result there is lust and violence: as James says, "When lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin; and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death". James 1:15. There is much of that, for the world is made up of many desires and ambitions, but parallel with all this there is what God promotes and supports, and carries through to its results -- its results being for Himself. So we have Enoch, one who in the midst of corruption acquired the desire for holiness obviously, so that he speaks prophetically of "holy myriads". It does not appear that he had any holy companions in his day; he walked with God. He seems to have had no human companion to walk with -- he apparently had no companionship in holiness among his fellows, among men. One has pondered upon the possible population of the antediluvian world. It must have been large; but what Scripture notices is the increase of sin. Men had evidently acquired great efficiency in the practice of

lawlessness, of unholiness, of corruption, and the holy soul of Enoch must have felt these things; and in company with God he acquired light from God -- prophetic light -- in which he looked on to myriads of holy beings. Holy myriads and the Lord coming with them are seen in the vision of the prophet.

Now I want to show how these holy myriads are being produced. Whatever be the light that Enoch had as to them we know that these myriads, in the midst of which the Lord will come will include ourselves -- will include the saints. I want to show also, by the Lord's help, how these are being called out and formed now so as to be fit to accompany the Lord as he comes out according to Jude. The passage emphasises the minuteness of the judgment. If you look at it, you will observe the frequency of the word 'all'. The Lord will "come" it says, "to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them, of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against them". You will see the minuteness of the judgment, as I have said, how that all are included, all the ungodly, and all their ungodly dealings, and all their hard speeches. No doubt Enoch had some knowledge of the population of his day, and he had some estimate of the sinfulness of the men and women around him, and he had knowledge of what was particularly hard, what he calls "hard speeches".

The correspondence of our times with all this is very striking -- the great efficiency which men have acquired to be lawless, the brazenry with which divine rights are disregarded and trampled underfoot, and then the immense number of huge cities which have developed; the enormous concentrations of populations add their quota to the lawlessness and intensify it. And then the hard speeches that are prevalent! Men get up and lecture even in the very

pulpits against the Bible, against God, and against His truth. Men write books to disprove if possible the written word of God. These things, and many such like things, mark the present time. They are the men who speak "froward things", Acts 20:30 hard things against God, and against. Christ, and against the people of God, and against the word of God. All these things are noted down. "Their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him". Not one of these will be omitted in the judgment.

I come now to the point to seek to show you how the sanctified ones are being formed to be intelligently with the Lord as He comes out. The present time is the ingoing. You will understand me. Presently it will be the outcoming, but for the moment it is the ingoing, and this is the point of view in the epistle to the Hebrews. Those who understand and enter into the truth unfolded in Hebrews are content to be out of sight. They do not wish to figure amongst the ungodly sinners speaking these hard things against God. They are occupied with the ingoing. We cannot understand the outcoming until we understand the ingoing. Enoch says nothing about the ingoing. He did not know nor understand about the book of Exodus nor the book of Leviticus, but what he said included those books, as also the epistle to the Hebrews. And so I wish to show you, beloved, how God leads us in. But first I shall dwell on the Lord's words quoted in the second chapter of Hebrews -- "I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the assembly will I sing praise unto thee". I want you to note how the thought of the family underlies the idea of the holy myriads; indeed God works everything out morally on the basis of the family, and for one reason, among others, that it is a primary thought. It is a thought emanating from His own nature, from His own affections, for there must be the establishment of the utmost confidence

before we can have what is official built up before we can have that in which divine service and testimony are to be rendered. And so in the book of Genesis, after the call of Abraham, the idea of the family is developed. It is true that Enoch had a son and evidently He was concerned about his son, in that he walked with God after he was born, but there is nothing developed in Enoch's immediate family for God; but we find in Noah a family and affections so that he prepared an ark for the saving of his house. But Noah was not the great father, nor was Enoch -- Abraham was the great father; hence Abraham is the first person, as Scripture records, to whom God appeared. I wish you to take notice of that because in appearing there was involved, that there was a showing of Himself in some feature to Abraham which should be the germ of what would be worked out in Abraham. It was the God of glory who appeared to Abraham. He had before him the unfolding of family relationships and affections. Take this away and what have you left? Only a shell! But, therein is the substance, the kernel, of what God had in His mind, and so you find in chapter after chapter in Genesis the great family feature developed, and in chapter 49 the family is blessed, and the gifts and calling of God are without repentance; as Isaac said, "Yea, and he shall be blessed". Genesis 27:33. There is no revoking of the divine blessing and the divine blessing is in the family. So the tribes -- the sons of Israel -- are called to hearken to Israel their father and he blesses every one of them. And the family thus blessed passes over into Egypt, and we find in Exodus 1 they are again enumerated -- the names of the sons of Israel. Then in chapter 4 God formally takes over these tribes as His; "Let my son go that he may serve me". Exodus 4:23. "Israel is my son, my first-born". Exodus 4:22. You can understand what the God of glory signifies when you hear Him speak thus. He has a son and that son

is to serve Him. But how serve Him? We have a son designated, and that son is to serve in the priestly office. So that while the family thought underlies the priestly service, the priestly family reminds us that God is to be served by those who learn holiness. Hence Aaron is referred to in Scripture as the "saint of the Lord", Psalm 106:16. So in Exodus 6 the Holy Spirit gives us a list of the tribes again. This subject is of the utmost importance. In reading Scripture you may wonder at the constant recurrence of the family thought, but from what I am saying you can see the meaning of it. I think thus the Holy Spirit gives us the list, and as He arrives at Levi He stops -- no more names are given. Having arrived, at Levi he traces the sons of Levi until we arrive at Aaron and Moses, first Aaron and Moses, then Moses and Aaron -- see verses 20 and 27. The Holy Spirit makes no errors and when He places Aaron first He means it. He is thinking of holiness, He is thinking; of priesthood, of that state in which we have to say to Him, and in which alone we can have to say to Him. So He says, "This is that Aaron and Moses", Exodus 6:26.

Well now, you see how the matter stands in Exodus. The Holy Spirit having arrived at the saintly family, the sanctified family, you have no other names, God as it were notifying that that is what He has in His mind. If He has brought us into the relation of brethren, of sons, He has in His mind that we should be priests, that we should be sanctified, and so "This is that Aaron and Moses". Exodus 6:26. We have arrived at the High Priest and we have arrived at the apostle: And now, as you see in Hebrews 3, we have to learn everything from Christ from these two points of View -- the apostle and High Priest of our confession.

So having arrived at Hebrews, I want to dwell a little on the idea of brethren, referring back to the passage already quoted, "I will declare, thy name unto my brethren". In chapter 2 we have the great

divine thought. It is a citation from the Psalms; it is brought in to show that the Lord Jesus was a real man, and that He had brethren, and it is, as I may say, the great text, from this point of view, of the whole epistle. If He has brethren, He intends to sing in their midst, as an assembly. The family is one thought, but the assembly is another.

But I wish, for a moment, to revert to the gospels that you may see how the brethren are constituted. In the three synoptic gospels the idea is based on moral grounds. In Matthew the brethren of the Lord are said to be those who do the will of God. That, I need not say, is moral. They are marked off in this world as doing the will of God. The same applies to Mark, only that Mark adds that the Lord looked round in a circuit at those who were sitting around Him and said, "Behold my mother and my brethren; for whosoever shall do the will of God, he is my brother, and sister, and mother". Mark 3:34 And then in Luke those who are His brethren are those who hear the word of God and do it; who do it. There is not only the will of God, but the word of God, the mind of God, and these features mark the brethren, and no one is entitled to the designation of brethren who is devoid of these features. But when I come to John I am on a different basis. You have the relationship in its most exalted character. It is not a mere question then of what is moral; it is a question, from his point of view, of divine counsel. We are brethren as the fruit of divine counsel. The Lord would have it so, and so the Lord, sends the message through Mary: "Go to my brethren" -- not a word about anything moral -- "and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God". John 20:17. Need I say that this must underlie everything, for we cannot acquire the relationship of brethren, it must be a matter of calling, a matter of purpose emanating from God; and so the Lord has effected it,

and as risen from among the dead and ascending into heaven He addresses certain ones as His brethren. John gives you the relationship from the highest standpoint. From John 20 I may say we may go right into eternity; we are fit for it from the divine side for we are taken up for it. It is a wonderful thing! "My Father and your Father, and to my God and your God". John 20:17. There is no 'if'. It emanates from Christ Himself, from the Father.

But then into these very ones He breathes, and in breathing said, "Receive [the] Holy Spirit". John 20:22. Now He is going to build up something in a provisional way. They are to be in this world, but possessed of Holy Spirit. It is in virtue of the possession of such a Spirit from the breathing of Christ that God will take us up and fit us for the ingoing. We go in on the ground of relationship, but we must also go in on the ground of holiness. Let that never be forgotten. That is what thousands of brethren disregard. The family is one thing and the assembly is another; the assembly is built up on the idea of the family, but takes on in addition the thoughts of intelligence and holiness. So He says, "Receive [the] Holy Spirit". John 20:22. It is in virtue of that that we develop into the service of God in priesthood.

Now, in Hebrews 3 the writer addresses them as "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling"; in other words what we get in John 20, and now He proposes to develop from that point the great subject of approach to God, so that he says, "Consider the apostle and High Priest of our confession". We have to learn from Him, particularly priesthood, for that is what is developed -- it is not apostleship, but priesthood from this chapter onwards, and priesthood based on sonship. So it goes on to say that Christ is Son over His house. I have to see Him, to consider Him now in the house. Think of being called upon, being exhorted rather, to consider Him thus! He is over

the house, but it is His own house; He has built it. It is God's house but built by Christ, and that is the first thing to consider. He is Son over the house. If I consider Him thus, I begin to learn subjection to Him as Son in the house -- the principle of rule -- but rule in One who is the Son.

The next thing introduced is the Spirit. While the Son is over the house, the Holy Spirit is present there, and calls upon those who form the house not to be hard-hearted: "Even as says the Holy Spirit, To-day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts". We are considering the Son over the house, and presently we are reminded by the Spirit -- a present living voice -- not to harden our hearts. Oh, I say, beloved, this is a voice surely! I believe the ministry of the Spirit in all phases of the assembly has this bearing, "Harden not your hearts"! "He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies". And one thing He always says, "Harden not your hearts". A hardened heart is incapable of being affected by the covenant, for it is just what Israel's heart was, a heart of stone. God will take it away yet and give them hearts of flesh upon which He can write, and unless we learn to judge our hard hearts there will be no writing upon them.

There is much more in the chapters which follow -- the priesthood of Christ and the covenant, what He is above, and what the Holy Spirit does down here but first we are warned by the Holy Spirit as to hardening our hearts.

The next thing I wish to speak of is the offering of Christ. The will of God is introduced in chapter 10. The will of God is not against us, it is for us, and if there is one thing we should delight in it is the will of God. Ephesians presents it to us in its highest relation, as the good pleasure of His will. His eternal counsels regarding us are according to the good pleasure of His will. And then there is the mystery

of His will to head up all things in Christ, and the assembly is to be to the praise of His glory according to the counsel of His own will. There are no forces to interfere with the will of God. It goes through. That is the thought of Ephesians. And so in this chapter, Hebrews 10, we have it, and we have One undertaking it, to carry it into effect, and what is so wonderful about it is that that will -- the will of God -- is occupied in our sanctification. That which is so great, so irresistible, is occupied in our sanctification: "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all". Think of it entering into our sanctification! The offering, too, of the body of Jesus Christ entering into it! How much that body was for God! It was the vessel of His will. "Lo, I come to do thy will, O God". The pleasure of God was involved in it, and then, too, the love of Christ. How it touches us -- the body of Jesus Christ! So we are perfected by that one offering and there is no more offering for sin: "For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the sanctified".

The next thought I dwell upon is the Holy Spirit as witness. The Holy Spirit is a witness now. "And the Holy Spirit also bears us witness of it". In chapter 3 He speaks solemnly to us as to our hard hearts, but in chapter 10 He is a witness continually present with us to remind us that our sins and iniquities are remembered no more. How faithful a witness! He is here to remind us constantly of the love of God, because that is what is involved. His law is in our hearts and our sins are forgiven. These are the things the Holy Spirit is occupied with. He is the witness to us that our sins and iniquities will be remembered no more. I beg of you to take note of the Holy Spirit from this point of view -- an ever-present witness to my heart of the love of God. How delightful that service is to the Spirit! He rebukes

our hard hearts, but He also brings into our hearts the love of God, He sheds it abroad in our hearts. What a service! Divine Persons are occupied in bringing about this sanctified company, that there might be the ingoing, and also that there might be the outgoing of the holy myriads. So this is the service of the Spirit. Thus the will of God, the work of Christ, and the service of the Spirit -- all the Persons in the Godhead -- in this way are occupied in our sanctification. The apostle says to the Thessalonians, "The very God of peace sanctify you wholly". 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

Thus you see how God the Father, as I may say, and the Son, and the Spirit, are presented to us in that chapter as occupied in our sanctification, and the most important side, I believe, applicable at the present time is the present service of the Spirit in maintaining us in liberty before God in good conscience, and in the sense of the love of God, shedding it abroad in our hearts.

Now, the result is to be for God. There is to be the ingoing, so he says, "Having, therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say his flesh ... . Let us draw near". It is going in, that is in view here, not coming out. It is as a sanctified company that we go into the presence of God, so he says, "with a true heart", for God will have our hearts. The heart is that on which He operates, and so we are to draw near with true hearts and having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience. The apostle Paul says to Timothy, "maintaining faith and a good conscience, which last, some, having put away, have made shipwreck as to faith". 1 Timothy 1:19. I do urge the importance of maintaining a good conscience. David, who I may say is like Enoch the result of an exercise, asked Jehovah that His priests might be clothed with righteousness. One of the most important

garments for a priest is the garb of righteousness -- and that in every sphere -- righteousness in his house, righteousness in his business, righteousness in his relations with his brethren. David prays, "Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness and let thy saints shout for joy". Psalm 132:9. There can be no shouting for joy without that robe. God answers, "I will also clothe her priests with salvation" Psalm 132:16; He is ready to do it. So we are enjoined to "draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water" -- the word of God.

Thus the epistle to the Hebrews develops the holy myriads, the saintly company, those who are wholly fit for His presence, so that they can go in. This is the "in-going time", presently the "out-going time" will be when the Lord comes out with His holy myriads. In view of that, one would unite with the apostle and say, "The God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ". 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

BAPTISM

Mark 16:16; Exodus 14:15 - 31.

J.T. I thought it would help us to consider baptism as representing the acceptance -- the public acceptance -- of the divine judgment. You will observe that the commandments in Matthew and Mark to the disciples include baptism, whereas it is not in evidence in Luke and John, alluding, I suppose, and in keeping with the fact that the bearing of the judgment -- the forsaking of God -- is emphasised both in Matthew and Mark. The Lord is forsaken on the cross according to these two evangelists, and in keeping with that the believer should be baptised. God would have us to be in accord thus publicly with what Christ underwent. There would be a disposition to avoid the public acceptance of the divine judgment; but it comes out at the beginning of Christianity that those who believed Peter's word were baptised. It is put in that way, "they that gladly received his word were baptised", Acts 2:41 not 'that Peter baptised them', but that they "were baptised".

Ques. Had there been an aspect of the death of Christ in Exodus 12 which was more private, before they took the passage of the sea?

J.T. Yes. The passover is in a measure private -- it is kept indoors. The passage of the Red Sea is public; it takes us out of the sphere to which judgment applies. This principle of the acceptance of the divine verdict is introduced at the very outset of the line of faith and whatever the divine findings may be, they are accepted. So you find that Seth had a son and he called his name Enosh. There was the acceptance, in the naming of his child, of the judgment that lay upon man. Light broke in there as it says, "Then began men to call upon the name of the Lord". Genesis 4:26.

It is in the acceptance of the divine findings by some public occurrence that light comes in, so that the naming of Seth's child brought in light. And then Adam being recognised in his position of headship, the exercise is traced from him; Genesis 5. He comes into the gain of his son's act and therefore Enoch is counted from Adam -- the seventh from Adam being the result of the exercise. Enoch is the culmination of the exercise, and he had this testimony that he pleased God. With Noah and with Moses we get the same principle, but particularly in this instance in Exodus 14 where the children of Israel are said to have acted on the principle of faith -- the only instance in which it is so said. We read, "By faith they passed through the Red Sea" Hebrews 11:29; it was what they did. There is that which has to be done to complete the thing, in order that there should be the full result for God. The result for God is not till chapter 15 -- there is no song till then. As to the passover lamb, they were to eat it. In all sacrificial offerings that the people presented to God, God had his part first, but the passover is peculiar in that respect -- it was for the people. So God's part comes out in chapter 15. There must be public conformity to what God is.

W.H. They "went out ... in the sight of all the Egyptians". Numbers 33:3. Does that refer to this?

J.T. Yes. It is an allusion to this chapter.

Ques. In what way do you view 1 Corinthians?

J.T. In the same sense. It is Christ our passover sacrificed for us.

Rem. In chapter 11 the apostle brings in the other side.

J.T. Yes, the Lord's supper. Here (Exodus 14) Jehovah says, "Wherefore criest thou unto me? Speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward". A time comes when it is not a question of

speaking to God, but of moving according to light He has afforded.

A.N. You distinguish between what there is on our side which is private as in the passover, and the acceptance of death in a public way; but before God can have His portion there must be the latter.

J.T. Yes. That is what I see.

Ques. Do we understand you to mean that while there is a public position in baptism, the Spirit would maintain the reality of that position in our souls?

J.T. I think it is maintained in the Lord's supper.

Rem. Because that is our act.

J.T. Yes. We are committed to the death of the Lord. It has been said that baptism introduces us into the wilderness and the Lord's supper sustains us in it.

F.R.B. In the Lord's supper is there the remembrance of the act of God in judgment?

J.T. Well, hardly that. It is the difference between roasting and boiling. The passover was roasted. It was the direct action of the fire upon the meat. It had to be eaten, no part was to be offered; it was not presented on the altar. It was a question of the people discerning what was due to them. The blood kept out the destroying angel. That was Christ's direct bearing of judgment. In the subsequent offerings, which were eaten by the priests or others, the meat was generally boiled, that is, the indirect action of the fire not the direct action, and I would connect that more with the Lord's supper; but the death of Christ is before us, for the blood is separated from the body.

A.G. In connection with baptism, have you in view the public act and the keeping up of its import publicly?

J.T. Quite. It should be the outcome of the acceptance of God's judgment: "They that gladly received his word were baptised". Acts 2:41.

It is where you get the thing first mentioned that you get the idea. It is first mentioned in connection with this dispensation, in Acts 2 -- the verse just quoted. There was the necessity of baptism but before baptism repentance. Peter says, "Repent, and be baptised every one of you". Acts 2:38. Then it says, "They that gladly received his word" -- that is, the word he gave -- "were baptised". The state that should go with baptism was evidently there.

A.N. I think we have been accustomed to give baptism particular significance without taking it in its scriptural setting as first presented, that is as connected with repentance. "Repent and be baptised". Acts 2:38.

J.T. Yes, that is what I thought; Peter's words convey the necessity preceding baptism. There is the acceptance of the judgment of God, of which baptism is the public expression. In Mark 16 you get the complete idea -- "He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved". It is not the administration of baptism there but the necessity of it. Matthew gives the administration.

Ques. Would you say that the eunuch in Acts 8 justified God in that way?

J.T. I think so. "Here is water", Acts 8:36 he says; he saw the necessity for it.

Ques. Would God view the people in Exodus 15 as on different ground entirely?

J.T. Yes. They are then publicly in relationship with God. It is due to God that it should be so. The people were as safe (from the divine side) when eating the roast lamb as they were in the wilderness, but they were not yet outwardly delivered; they were not clear of the place where they were under the enemy's power.

Ques. Would you say that in going through the

Red Sea they came into line with what was in the mind of God?

J.T. Yes. They were then publicly in accord with the death of Christ.

A.N. Do you suggest that our movements publicly are to be governed by our acceptance of the death of Christ?

J.T. Yes. The great importance of accepting the death of Christ having come home to us, we must accept it in the prescribed way. Those who received Peter's word accepted it; they were baptised, and then following that they continued in the apostles' teaching and fellowship, and in breaking of bread and in prayers. They accepted death publicly and then they were added; that is the divine way; and then as thus taken account of, God takes them up and adds to them publicly. "The Lord added to the assembly daily those that were to be saved". Acts 2:47.

Rem. So the waters of the Red Sea were a wall unto them; that would be in the way of protection.

J.T. Well, I think it emphasised to them that death was there. At the Jordan there was no water in sight, but at the Red Sea the waters being a wall to them on their right hand and on their left was a witness to the judgment. They went over by faith: "They passed through". Hebrews 11:29.

Ques. Do you think that if I view the point from God's side it raises very serious exercise as to one's responsibility to God?

J.T. Yes. Numbers calls attention to the fact that they went out with a high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians; Numbers 33:3. That public action itself was necessary to complete the exercise. One is defective unless one takes the public position in accord with the divine finding. As having passed over "Israel saw the Egyptians dead on the sea-shore", and the great power with which Jehovah had

wrought. You realise the power of God in the exercise.

Ques. Would you say that there are two things to maintain us in the public position -- the passover and then that we have seen the Egyptians dead?

J.T. Well, there is no record that they saw the first-born ones slain because that was private -- "in every house". They did not see that, nor did the Egyptians see what they were doing. But these exercises are incomplete unless the prescribed public attitude is taken, unless baptism is accepted.

G.W.W. In other words, you may have all the private exercise without the full good of salvation.

J.T. Yes. Salvation is a public thing. As saved one has the helmet of salvation on.

G.W.W. You have definitely taken a certain attitude towards these conditions, and in that you are supported and in that there is salvation.

Rem. If I recognise the rights of God, I can count on God's support.

J.T. Well, you realise God's support as accepting His judgment on man in the flesh. Baptism is the means by which God intends that we should show publicly our acceptance of the judgment which rested on us. Paul was not sent to baptise, but nevertheless baptism was always present in his ministry and he himself gives us the doctrine of it; Romans 6.

G.W.W. "He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved", it says in Mark. The emphasis laid on baptism shows that it is a feature in salvation that we have to pay attention to.

Ques. Is that what is seen in going forward?

J.T. Yes. The going forward of the believer is accepting the import of his baptism.

G.W.W. It marks the first movement and every subsequent movement.

J.T. Yes, and it is the beginning of the believer's history publicly. It is the demand of a good conscience before God; 1 Peter 3:21.

A.N. How is this done in the sight of Egyptians -- merely by the rite being administered?

J.T. The rite is the formal expression of it, but you must accept death in your soul's reckoning. You would expect in Seth's house that death was accepted, he having named his son Enosh, so I think God acted with Seth because in the list you get in Genesis 5 down to Jared, the Holy Spirit emphasises that every one died, as much as to say that Seth was right. The name he gave to his son might have been questioned, for then men lived nearly 1,000 years, but the Holy Spirit says of each "he died", as if God would confirm the faith of Seth. Genesis 5:6 - 20. God honours faith and confirms it.

Ques. We have not to wait 800 years to die! we begin with it.

J.T. Yes. And you maintain it. I have no doubt that the Lord's supper represents the food by which one is enabled to maintain the principle set out in baptism. "Let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup", 1 Corinthians 11:28.

A.N. You own the sphere of life by way of the acceptance of the death of Christ. That would be John 6 in principle.

J.T. Yes. Mark emphasises those who believe and are baptised. Such are saved. Those who have faith are immune from the judgment of God and satanic influences.

G.W.W. As to what you were saying as to the Lord's supper, one might also say that in it we have the Lord's provision in one way for the maintenance of the position taken up publicly. You have development of affection which would lead the soul to continue in the position taken up in baptism. The Lord sets very great store by this position being taken up.

J.T. Yes. In every circumstance where the judgment of God is involved, relief is in the public

acceptance of it. There ought to be a movement corresponding with what God has done; without this you could not have Exodus 15. You could not have in Egypt the song mentioned there.

Ques. Would you say that is the responsibility on the part of the children of Israel?

J.T. It is the result for God. The children of Israel did not realise what was involved in the moving forward, but as they moved they began to see what God had done for them, so then they were ready for the song and the song is, I apprehend, God's portion. Just as Enoch was the result of an exercise, so also is the song sung by Moses and the children of Israel.

S.M. The cloud went behind!

J.T. Yes, that is because the Egyptians were nearby. It was a testimony of God's protection of His people, which is a great incentive to move forward. The point here is what you are to do, for in doing it you realise His power. Moses rod lifted up over the sea represented the authority of God in dealing with death and him who had the power of it.

A.N. The same principle comes in in Joshua, where they turned their backs upon the men of Ai. "Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face? Israel hath sinned", Joshua 7:10,11.

J.T. I think it is a great thing to see that God looks for public conformity to Himself in His judgment, and that enters into every circumstance requiring judgment among the saints. So in the case you refer to, Israel had sinned and this had to be owned publicly. Achan was stoned.

A.N. If we are not true to our baptism, what then?

G.W.W. If one does not obey the word "go forward" one falls into the hands of the Egyptians.

J.T. That is very important. One is exposed to Satan.

G.W.W. It was always so. Later Amalek hung on the rear to cut off the stragglers.

J.T. As many as received Peter's word were baptised, and then it says they were added; as if they were honoured by God publicly in accepting the divine order. There is nothing to indicate the dead first-born in Egypt, but when Israel go forward they see the evidences of the overthrow of Satan's power. They see the dead bodies of the Egyptians on the sea-shore. They would never have seen them, if they had not gone forward.

Rem. Faith would always lead us on.

J.T. That is what is remarkable in this instance.

It is the only case in which the people are said to have acted in faith: "By faith they passed through the Red Sea". Hebrews 11:29. Moses celebrated the passover by faith. It is good to see the moral value of chapter 15, for it is an illustration of what accrues to God as the result of a right exercise in His people. It is in salvation that we render God His portion. "Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song, ... the Lord ... hath triumphed gloriously". Exodus 15:1,6.

Ques. What would answer to the enemies dead on the sea-shore?

J.T. It would be some evidence to you as a believer that Satan is defeated. It is a great feature of warfare to find out what the opposing general is aiming at. You want to thwart him in that, and God gives you evidence that it is accomplished. He has His own way of showing you the enemy defeated. The passage of the Red Sea is a type of the overthrow of Satan's power through the death and resurrection of Christ.

Rem. They would not have seen this wonderful victory if they had not gone through the Sea.

J.T. No. The Lord says to the disciples when they spoke about demons being subject to them through His name, "In this rejoice not ... but rejoice that your names are written in the heavens", Luke 10:20.

and then He says, "I beheld Satan as lightning falling out of heaven". Luke 10:18. That was a much greater thing. The Lord saw Satan fall from heaven -- the complete defeat of the enemy.

G.W.W. It is a great thing to see the enemy dead on the sea-shore. It speaks of a principle once enslaving my soul but now seen as dead.

A.N. That is an interesting point that every exercise works out a result for God. I was thinking of Psalm 18, where the same principle is worked out. The result is, "I will love thee, O Lord, my strength". Psalm 18:1. The affections were set in movement.

J.T. It is one of the most interesting things in Scripture that God looks for result from every exercise. He brings in an occasion of exercise and looks for a result from it. He found pleasure in Enoch and in Noah; and when Jacob was recovered he poured a drink-offering on the pillar of stone he had reared up, and in Joseph there is pleasure for Christ in the recovery of the brethren, for Joseph kissed them. God allows the exercise that there may be something for Himself out of it, and that something follows the public acceptance of the judgment. Whatever God's mind might be, the public acceptance of it is pleasing to Him.

G.W.W. If God moves towards me for my salvation, it must be very pleasurable to me that I should sing Him a song; in the song the exercise is complete.

J.T. I think that is where the fruit comes in; "the fruit of our lips giving thanks". Hebrews 13:5. The end in view in all God's dealings is fruit for Himself.

G.W.W. The enemy has been overthrown, and the people are conscious of the overthrow and they attribute it all to God; so that as was remarked, it was when the Lord saved David out of the hand of all his enemies that he spake the words of his song to the Lord in Psalm 18.

Rem. The Lord said to the palsied man, "Stretch forth thine hand". Matthew 12:13. Would that be an instance of the power received with movement?

J.T. Moses represents the authority of God; and what lay on man involved that God Himself is really concerned about what hinders us; so He says to Moses, "Stretch out thy hand over the sea". That was God's part, the children of Israel could not do that, but they had to move forward, and it says they went on dry ground through the sea. God felt the thing that lay on man more than man did, for it interfered with God's rights over man. Satan had the power of death. But as they were prepared to move forward He acted for them.

Ques. When you speak of the helmet what do you mean?

J.T. It means that you are free from the thing that held you.

F.R.B. What would you say about the signs: "And these signs shall follow them that believe"? Mark 16:17.

J.T. I think they are for confirmation. The power of God accompanies your path as you accept baptism. As you accept what the light of God conveys He gives you confirmation. It is worthy of note that in Mark it is "these signs shall follow them that believe" Mark 16:17. -- not the apostles but "them that believe".

Rem. Israel is said to have been baptised unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea, what would that mean?

J.T. The cloud would be the sign of the divine presence. I think baptism in the cloud is that you are merged in the divine presence. Matthew says, "Baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" Matthew 28:19: that is to say you are introduced into all that light -- God fully revealed. Then He is here by the Spirit.

Ques. Baptism puts you on right ground but you need the Spirit for power?

J.T. That is right. Baptism puts you into public conformity with the judgment of God, and God is with you on that line.

G.W.W. The great danger is in taking up these things theoretically. It is the seriousness of it that one wants to have pressed.

J.T. Yes, and the results for God. As there is progress in the soul in going forward -- accepting death, it results in a tribute of praise to God.

Ques. Why do they come up out of Egypt in military rank -- in fives?

J.T. It was a testimony that they were not in confusion. As subject, the believers' steps are in divine order. When the Lord came out of death there was no evidence of confusion.

A.N. It would be a point in 2 Timothy that you contend lawfully: but if I am not true to my baptism I am not striving lawfully -- I am bringing in some principles that are unlawful.

J.T. That is so. I think the order of marching is a testimony to the power of God in that they were not as in a rout. They did not go out pell-mell, but in order. You would expect that if I call upon the name of the Lord for salvation, I come into protection, and I do not need to be confused. The people came out of Egypt 'arrayed' that is "five in a rank". They were not in confusion for they were moving in relation to authority -- they were typically in subjection to Christ.

Rem. Five means human weakness -- they went in ranks of five.

J.T. They might be conscious of their weakness but they were not in confusion. It is a good thing to have the sense of weakness but a great thing to move as under divine authority.

G.W.W. Five is never a sign of weakness due to sin.

J.T. It is the weakness which casts us on God. "When I am weak, then am I strong". 2 Corinthians 12:10.

MATERNAL INFLUENCE

Revelation 12:1 - 5; Song of Songs 3:11, Song of songs 8:5; Song of Songs 3:4

The reference to family designations must impress every one who reads Scripture, whether it be father, mother, husband, wife, brother, sister, children, sons, or daughters. No one who reads Scripture can fail to be impressed with these references, and so I have in mind on this occasion, to speak in this connection and to dwell upon the idea of the mother.

It is obvious, both from Scripture and from ordinary circumstances, that the maternal feature exercises, next to the paternal, the greatest influence in the family, and I want to show, therefore, the divine idea in the mother. For this reason I read from Revelation 12 because we have presented there no less than the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ, not indeed as she is presented literally in Mary, but as a symbolical personage clothed in divine thoughts. Israel, as in the purpose of God, is seen here. No mere woman personally could correspond with the great divine thoughts that are presented in Revelation 12; for only a divine Person could present divine thoughts perfectly. Hence in our Lord Jesus Christ we have every divine thought presented in perfection. He was the word. He was personally the presentation of all the mind of God; and He was not only the presentation of divine thoughts but of the divine nature, for it is said, "God has been manifested in flesh". 1 Timothy 3:16. But Mary, wife of Joseph, could not personally present the thoughts of God as seen in this figure. They are presented in a symbolical personage. The idea of the mother is connected with the assembly as well as with Israel, and so if we are to arrive at the definite idea which is presented to us in the assembly, we shall have to understand the features presented

symbolically in this personage. The woman is said to be clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and a crown of twelve stars. She is therefore presented to us as possessing government; she is clothed with the sun and all subordinate authority under her feet, and with full administrative light she has a crown of twelve stars.

It is worth while, I believe, to dwell upon these features, especially as the idea of the mother is, as I have said, connected with the assembly, and that the assembly is to exercise these features in the absence of the Lord at the present time, even as she is to exercise them in a supreme degree in the coming day. She will descend out of heaven from God, as we read, "and her light like unto a stone most precious". Revelation 21:11. She has all the marks of divine government and administration, so that she will exercise the most benign influence on this earth. A wonderful contemplation! especially as it is so near at hand, and as we shall have our part in it. How obvious, therefore, is the importance to each of us of understanding these maternal features as presented to us from God, and severally coming under their influence and being formed by them, so that we may be children with manners suited to the house, with ways suited to God, suited to that great system that will thus come down from God out of heaven.

Now I want to show how these maternal features appear in the gospels, and what is to be observed is that they only appear in Matthew and Luke. Neither Mark nor John dwell on the birth of our Lord. You can understand how it would not fit in in John's gospel, for it is there a question of the Person of our Lord Jesus Christ, and His mother could not add to His Person Being God over all blessed for ever, as Scripture says, no such feature could add to Him. So John does not give us the birth of Christ, nor does he bring forward His mother or father in the flesh.

It is true he mentions the Lord's mother, but the first mention of her is to bring from the Lord the expression, "Woman, what have I to do with thee?" John 2:4. John presents the Lord in manhood, and all that is in manhood ever shines there; but he is concerned about the Person of the Lord and the revelation of God. With John it is not a question of previous dispensations or a previous testimony or government, it is a question of a Person being in this world great enough to reveal God, hence he says, "The only-begotten Son which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him". John 1:18. We are in the presence of a divine Person -- God manifest in flesh.

So in Mark where it is a question of levitical service, and prophetic testimony, the mother is not in view. It is "Beginning of the glad tidings of Jesus Christ, Son of God". Mark 1:1. It is a divine Person here in service and testimony. But when we look at Matthew we have the mother, and the Holy Spirit takes pains to call attention to Mary. "The little child and his mother" over and over again appears in chapter 2. The wise men from the east came, and their enquiry is not for the Son of God nor for the Son of man, but for Him who had been born "king of the Jews" Matthew 2:2 -- not born a universal monarch, but king of the Jews. They humbly recognise God's relation to His people and that a king had been born to that people. The king is born. So the parents and the royalty of the parents come into evidence. The wise men follow the star till it came and stood over the house where the little child was. They enter and find the little child with Mary His mother. The Holy Spirit connects Him with His mother and He is worshipped by these men, and they brought out of their treasures gold, frankincense, and myrrh, and they present these things to Him, not to His mother. Faith would never recognise her in that way as an object of worship or veneration. We get Elizabeth saying, "Whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me", Luke 1:43.

but there is no veneration. The Magi present their offerings to the King, not to Mary in any sense, but she was present. The little child was in the house, for Matthew does not present a manger. He is dealing with a royal personage and he presents Him in the house with His mother. The obvious reference is to the relations of God with His people in the Old Testament.

Now in Luke you have a similar line of thought, only that it is not the people of God in the Old Testament that is in view, but rather humanity; for God would present the maternal side in that connection also, and in order that we might learn to respond to these views in the assembly we have to understand both Matthew and Luke. We have to understand royalty, that is to say there most be that royal dignity manifest, that superiority to petty feelings and recriminations; but when you come to Luke it is not royalty but sympathy; and if you have royalty and sympathy combined, you have that which can affect men and form them according to God. They must be combined. So in God's relations with His people in the Old Testament the idea of a king took form and it was never surrendered; and priesthood was connected with it.

Melchizedek gives the idea of a king at the outset. He stands over against Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the Lord. You cannot exploit the saints of God for your own interest. Nimrod took up the creatures of God for his own selfish interest, and his history has been repeated among the people of God. Men have used the people of God for their own promotion and interest, but what you find in Melchizedek is a king of righteousness. A man who is king of righteousness will respect the rights of God, and the rights of man. He will have respect for the rights of his brethren, and so the stipulation in regard of the

king in Israel was that he should be raised up from amongst his brethren; Deuteronomy 17:15. So Melchizedek was king of righteousness and then king of peace, and then "priest of the Most High God". Genesis 14:18. It is where Matthew and Luke combine. It is where the thought of a king is first presented in the scripture that you have the main features. Therefore instead of exacting from Abram, Melchizedek brought forth bread and wine and blessed him, saying, "Blessed be Abram of the Most High God, possessor of heavens and earth". Genesis 14:19.

That is the divine idea and God took it up in Israel. Thus Melchizedek comes out in Matthew, king of the Jews, and then you have, as I said, linked with this the thought of priest which underlies the maternal side presented in Luke, for we are to be formed by sympathy as it is seen in Christ. It worked out specially in Paul, as we learn from the epistles to the Thessalonians and Galatians.

Now I refer to these two features in the gospels that we might gather up the divine idea in the mother, for the intent is that every one of us has to be formed by what is presented in the mother. It is said of her in Proverbs that "Her children arise up and call her blessed". Proverbs 31:28. Have I ever done that, I ask myself? And her husband praises her. The Lord looks upon the assembly as His own product. "A virtuous woman ... the heart of her husband doth safely trust in her ... her children arise up and call her blessed". Proverbs 31:10,11,28. If you look at Proverbs 31 you will see why she is called blessed. How carefully she looks after the house, and the children are clothed and fed; you feel she justifies the confidence placed in her by her husband.

Now I turn to Song of Songs 3, to show how the mother possesses these divine thoughts of royalty and dominion and administration; how having brought forth her son, she crowned him. The more we take on divine thoughts the more we connect them with

Christ. The daughters of Zion are called upon to behold king Solomon in the day of his espousals, in the day of the gladness of his heart, in the day that his mother crowned him, for every crown belongs to Christ. Whatever crowns we have, their value lies in that we can place them at His feet as we see in Revelation 4. But I dwell for a moment on the mother as God presents His idea symbolically in Revelation. She is true to that in whatever form it might be expressed. She is true to it in that she crowns Solomon. Solomon is a type of Christ as possessing wisdom. By wisdom princes rule and the ideal of rule is in Solomon, the king's son. The prayers of David are ended as Solomon takes the throne, because then it is a question of divine ideals being realised, and that is what I beg of you to take notice of. Can our minds have any persons before us save Christ in whom divine thoughts are expressed? If I think of Solomon he was a man as I am, capable of failing, as he did, alas! but if I view him from the divine side I think of divine thoughts, of the divine ideal, and it is thus that I read of him here, "Behold king Solomon ... in the day of his espousals".

We may well thus transfer our thoughts from the mother to the son, to Solomon. If the symbolical person in Revelation sets forth the divine thoughts as expressed in the system here, how much more perfectly does Solomon, for Solomon is Christ, the true Son, the Son of the Father's love, the One possessed of all wisdom.

So faith rests in all government being placed in His hands. It is in the ways of God that that government which must always refer to Christ is expressed here in the assembly. As I said, it must all refer to Christ, for He rules till He has put all under His feet, and has delivered up the kingdom to God even the Father. So that is what I wish to engage you with, in order that we might learn from the mother in

whom it is now expressed for the moment here, how to conduct ourselves. It is largely the function of the mother to impress upon the children how to conduct themselves; as Paul said to one who was his child, "That thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God". 1 Timothy 3:15.

As I said, all this goes back to Christ, and from Christ to God. He delivers up the kingdom to Him who is God even the Father, that God may be all in all, but it is operative at the present time and the assembly has part in it, as Israel will have part in the future day.

I want now to speak a word on chapter 8:5. "Who is this that cometh up from the wilderness, leaning upon her beloved? I raise thee up under the apple tree: there thy mother brought thee forth; there she brought thee forth that bare thee".

One ought to see this in every Christian. You have to learn to lean on Christ. He has all power. In the great ecclesiastical gospel the Lord says, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth". Matthew 28:18. So you can lean on Christ with the utmost confidence. You can rely upon Him, and so it says, "I raised thee up under the apple tree: there thy mother brought thee forth; there she brought thee forth that bare thee". We have been brought to believe. Many of us have been under systems other than the apple tree; some of us have been converted in systems which bear no resemblance to the true mother, hence the great diversity in the family; we are scarcely alike. Scripture emphasises the influence of the mother in likeness. Gideon says in answer to the kings of Midian: "They were my brethren, even the sons of my mother". Judges 8:19. The Midianites had said, "As thou art, so were they; each one resembled the children of a king", Judges 8:18 not the children of Gideon, but children of a king. There was a royal bearing about them, nothing small, nothing petty. Gideon replied, "They were ... the sons of my mother".

You see how he connects the idea of the mother with likeness. It is remarkable, dear brethren, that we are so diverse. Why is it that we are so diverse? The secret lies in the mothers. There is but one for us, "Jerusalem above", Galatians 4:26 our mother, but we have all been under other influences, other systems have been influencing us and we bear the marks of our mothers. Some of us are legal, it may be, as we read in Galatians, children of the bondwoman; others may be loose. The apostle triumphantly says, "So then, brethren, we are children not of the bondwoman but of the free". Galatians 4:31 "Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all". Galatians 4:26. It is not that we call her that, but she is that. Every true Christian bears her stamp. She is recognised as being clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet, and having upon her head a crown of twelve stars. The great features of government are seen in the mother, "I raised thee up under the apple tree"; that means that God has brought us up under the influence of Christ, for the apple tree is spoken of as chief among the trees of the wood. "There thy mother brought thee forth", that is to say the influence, and culture, and care of the mother are in relation to Christ. He safely trusts her, she brings up the children in relation to Him. Rome brings up her children in relation to herself, and He says, "I will kill her children with death", Revelation 2:23 but the true mother brings up her children in relation to Christ. "There thy mother brought thee forth". Earlier she had said, "As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons" Song of Songs 2:3; so she brings forth her children in relation to the apple tree, that is to say, in relation to Christ.

Now I have not a doubt that every system from Rome down is governed by some principle which brings up children in its own interests, to swell its own numbers and coffers, and to add to its own

dignity. The only system, if I may use the word, that brings up its children in relation to Christ is the true church, the assembly. He confides in it. "The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her", Proverbs 31:11 her children call her blessed, and he praises her -- the Lord praises her. We need not expect any other praise, we do not wish it. His commendation is all that we seek; we are not looking for the praise of the world but for the praise of Christ. The apostle says, "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not". 1 Corinthians 11:17. Alas, there was very little at Corinth that could be praised, but what they could be praised for they were praised for, for the Lord commends everything that He can. So the assembly comes out at the end as the wife. It is His wife. "The marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready" Revelation 19:7 that is to say, she has proved her faithfulness to Him, she has brought up children in relation to Him, she has kept His commandments, been true to His principles, and made herself ready; then it adds, "and to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white, for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints". Revelation 19:8. That stands over against the false wife who brings up her children in relation to herself and of whom the Lord says, I will kill them with death. How different to the children of the true wife! Jerusalem which is above is free; her husband commends her and praises her.

In the last passage in chapter 3 I wanted to show how the young believer finds Christ. There are many who have not found Him in their soul's history, but they are looking for Him. There must be many who are looking for Him, so it says, "The watchmen that go about the city found me, to whom I said, Saw ye him whom my soul loveth? It was but a little that I passed from them, but I found him whom my soul loveth". Song of Songs 3:4.

I say to the youngest believer here that you will

find Him if you look for Him. He has found you through the gospel -- it may be years ago -- but perhaps you have not begun to look for Him. Earlier, as she was set to find Him, it was said to her, "Go thy way forth by the footsteps of the flock", Song of Songs 1:8 and that is what I would point you young people to. If you are desirous of finding the Lord, keep near to His people, go by the footsteps of the flock; watch their feet, where they go, and you will find Him, for He is to be known amongst them. Visit the shepherds' tents. Why should you be as one veiled, as one whose love for Christ is questionable? You say you love Christ! I doubt it. There is suspicion attaching to you. You want to be with the flock; it is there you will find Him, and thus prove your love for Him. "He that hath my commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me". John 14:21. It is not he who says he loves the Lord, but he that keeps His commandments who really loves Him.

In this chapter the loved one is looking for Him, and she passes by the watchman, and as she passes by she finds Him. What does she do? She says "I held him, and would not let him go, until I had brought him into my mother's house". If you have now an apprehension of Christ in that way, you see Him not simply as Saviour, but as in Colossians as Head of the assembly, and as in Ephesians in relation to the assembly, and you say, I will not let Him go, I will bring Him in there. You connect Christ with the assembly. It is Christ and the assembly and yourself; that is it; it is Christ first, the assembly next, and then my relation to both. "I held him ... until I had brought him into my mother's house"; you connect Him with the assembly. Have you done it? No one has done it who has not accepted and entered into the fellowship of the Lord's people. If you are isolated, your love for Christ is questionable. I do not know your heart, we have to judge by what we

see in your walk and ways. The next step after finding Him is you connect yourself with the assembly -- as you know Christ you are linked by Him with the assembly.

Well, I hope you will have followed what I have said. I had in mind that we might see how the maternal features have influence on the family. This influence must be according to the divine thoughts expressed in the mother in Revelation. Simeon said to Mary "A sword shall pierce through thine own soul". Luke 2:35. There is the idea of grief in that. Luke, therefore, would present the sympathy that should mark us in our relations with one another, while Matthew would emphasise the royalty and government as seen in the sun, moon, and stars. May God bless the word.

"LOVERS OF GOD"

Romans 8:28; John 3:16; 1 John 4:9; Romans 8:32

I desire to speak to you at this time about lovers of God, believing that we are all lovers of God.

Deborah says, "Let them that love him be as the rising of the sun in its might" Judges 5:31 -- a remark that should be well noted as coming from a woman. She is a model for all sisters in the Lord; she was marked by personal victory. She dwelt under her own palm tree (Judges 4:5), and in judging Israel she called attention to the commandment of the Lord. "Hath not Jehovah ... commanded", she said. Judges 4:6.

No doubt she had read the book of Deuteronomy, as the other books of Moses, but particularly that book. It is the one in which the law of God is regarded in its spiritual bearing. Moses, nearing the end of his course, had become accustomed to look at things spiritually; he speaks of circumcision as applicable to the heart. "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart", Deuteronomy 10:16. He says, too, "Hear, O Israel ... thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart", Deuteronomy 6:5. The prophet Micah raises the question, "What doth Jehovah require of thee?" Micah 6:8. It would be immoral for anyone to suggest that there is no divine requirement from us, and the requirement is that we should love God. It is not a grievous requirement, surely, but one that is expressed in the keeping of His commandments. And so Deborah calls attention to the commandment of God and the commandment carried out led to a tribute to God. "Then sang Deborah and Barak ... on that day". Judges 5:1. What was accomplished was attributed to God, and in attributing the victory to God everyone came into his share, the tribute ending with this, "Let them that love him be as the rising of the sun". Judges 5:31.

The sun, I suppose, is the most prominent feature in the testimony of creation -- in the physical system; it speaks of divine goodness as dominant. No one can be here for God save one who is so possessed with a sense of divine goodness that he is superior to evil, and not only superior to but dominates the evil. It is he who knows God, and as knowing Him loves Him, who thus shines; indeed, it is that which Romans contemplates as the fruit of the gospel in the believer, that he overcomes evil with good. In overcoming evil with good, we are like God, and we shine as the sun.

You will all recall how the Lord, when approaching the truth of the assembly in relation to the kingdom of the heavens (Matthew 17), being on the mount with Peter, James, and John, is transfigured, and His countenance shone as the sun. That was for those who were present; and they were the representatives of us all. They were to be impressed with the majesty of Christ as dominating evil in this world -- as possessed of divine good, and so dominating the evil. As Peter says, "were eye-witnesses of his majesty ... when we were with him in the holy mount". 2 Peter 1:16. There was, in the countenance of Christ there, the expression of the dominance of good over evil, and it is only in the sense of this that one can be here in "the kingdom of the heavens" according to God, who "maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good". Matthew 5:45.

I am persuaded that God would bring about this very thing at the end of this period. The dispensation in which we live is not to go out in darkness, it is not to disappear like a flickering candle which burns out and disappears. It is to end as it began -- not in quantity, surely, but in quality. God is particular about quality, and so He would bring about lovers of Himself. In the great apostasy one of the marks is that men will be "lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God". 2 Timothy 3:4.

That is a word that should appeal to every young heart here, for the enemy is subtle to minister pleasure -- to minister that which affords pleasure to the natural man. There is the woman who "flattereth with her words". Proverbs 2:16. It is what she says. It is what is presented in living persons (or rather I should say dead persons morally). The young are brought into contact with persons who are abandoned to what is wicked, who speak forth filth, who flatter with their tongue. Men as they are -- degraded -- are flattered, and in that way kept under the power and influence of Satan -- lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God. And yet, beloved brethren, the dispensation in which we are began with the full shining of God, it was revelation; and every baptised person is introduced into it externally; "baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". Matthew 28:19. Hence the guilt of those who, instead of loving the God into the light of whom they have been introduced through their baptism, and it may be through their birth as born of Christian parents, love pleasure; and God resents it.

The dispensation is particularly marked by the knowledge of God, and the revelation of God has in view that He should be known in every heart. And so the Lord Jesus has come in mediatorially. We shall be at a great disadvantage in regard to the Person of our Lord Jesus Christ, unless we understand that He has come in mediatorially -- that One equal with God has taken a place relatively lower, has become a man, that He might bring all into the knowledge of God. That is what His great mediatorial service has in view -- to reveal God, and conversely to bring man into the knowledge of God, so that God may be all in all. Hence He rules in order to put down all that is against God, all that lifts up its head against the knowledge of God, and ultimately He will deliver up the kingdom unto Him who is God

and Father, that God may be all in all. This mediatorial service of Christ is proceeding, and is operative in every believer, to the end that there should be brought down in him every element of opposition to God, everything that is inconsistent with the revelation of God in Christ, to the end that God may be all to you, and that He should be in you -- that you may be a lover of God.

I wanted to show in these passages how this mediatorial service of Christ brings out what God is. First, in John, He is seen in the bosom of the Father. "The only-begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father" John 1:15; that is to say, we are presented at the very outset, with Christ as He is at the present time. He was ever, I need not say, loved of the Father, but the Holy Spirit is speaking in the present tense, and He was writing long after the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ, so He says, "The only-begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father". The Father has Him. The Father, beloved, has His Son in His bosom. Think of the influence that there is at the present time in the realm of the Spirit, the Son being there! We are baptised to the name of the Father, the Son, and of the Spirit -- the Son being in that place of affection, and the Holy Spirit here operating. And then the past -- "He hath declared him". The revelation is a past thing, it abides. But the present influence of divine Persons, beloved, operating and effective here, is what is called attention to.

And then in chapter 3 we have the gift. I am speaking now, very briefly, of the greatest subject that one can speak of, and I am quite conscious of one's meagreness as to it. But we have in chapter 3:16, the gift. "God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son". The Holy Spirit in this passage occupies us with the extent of divine love, it is expressed in the gift. And in this connection

you have the very greatest thing stated -- that eternal life is available to every one who believes. One cannot enlarge on these things for want of time, but grouped around this verse are the most wonderful things, as you might expect. If the Holy Spirit wishes to impress us with the extent of divine love, He brings before the eye the great results, so that the believer stops and looks; as was said of Moses, "When the Lord saw that he turned aside to see", Exodus 3:4.

How many sermons have been preached from this verse, who can tell? But I am afraid there have been a great many more sermons preached than persons who turned aside to see the great sight! When the Lord saw that Moses turned aside, He called to him, "Moses, Moses". Exodus 3:4. And so I appeal, dear brethren, to every one here, have we really turned aside to see this great sight? In relation to it you have the new birth, in relation to it you have the uplifted Son of man, "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness" John 3:14; in relation to it you have the truth of His Person -- the Son of man who is in heaven, who knows; in relation to it, too, you have the whole world in view for blessing, and you have the great blessing of God itself -- eternal life. I ask myself, dear brethren, as I would ask you, have we turned aside to see this great sight? If we do turn aside, we shall love God. When Moses turned aside, and Jehovah said, Moses, Moses, He signified to Moses how interesting he was to Him. He was known of Him, as it is said, "If any man love God, the same is known of him", 1 Corinthians 8:3. And if God pronounces your name twice, you may be sure that He wishes to convey to you His knowledge of you -- not now simply what you are, but His knowledge of your love for Him; you are an object with Him.

Now in the epistle we have this same statement, "His only-begotten Son", but the point there is the

love of God to us. "Herein as to us has been manifested the love of God, that God has sent his only-begotten Son into the world". In the gospel we have necessarily a wider bearing; the platform of the gospels is necessarily wider than that of the epistles, but the epistles bring the thing treated directly to us; God is thus known in nearness. In John 3:16 it is "God so loved the world that he gave". The thing is placed on its widest basis -- the fullest possible divine thought, the gift, and the love expressed in the gift. But in the epistles it is, "Herein as to us has been manifested the love of God" -- now it is brought down to Christians. And it is not simply that we might have eternal life, but that we might live through a Person -- "that we might live through him". We have the love of God thus brought near as applicable to ourselves, and the result is that we live by or through the only-begotten Son. You see how the Persons are brought in, dear brethren; we have the love of God as to us expressed in the fact that the Son was sent, not 'given' -- it does not say given here. I think it is very fine that the 'gift' is on such a wide platform, but when we come to the saints it is 'sent'. I do not say that the word 'sent' does not apply in John 3, for it is indeed stated there, but "God sent his only-begotten Son, ... that we might live through him". How much enters into that, beloved, as to the Son's readiness, as to the Son's availability! for He said, "Lo, I come to do thy will, O God". Hebrews 10:7. He was available, and hence He was sent, that we might live through Him. This is not something in the future, it is a present thing. The believer is in the presence of the love of God to himself. I am in the presence of the love of God to myself. He sent His Son that I might live. It was a question of the will of God to express His love, and the obedience of Christ to carry out that will, so that the love might be manifested. Has that love been manifested

in my heart -- that God sent His only-begotten Son that I might live through Him? Am I deferring it? Am I putting it off to the future? Am I living? Divine Persons have operated that I might live through the Son.

In Romans 8:3 we have the expression, "His own Son". Romans 8:3. These expressions, beloved, are not accidental, they are deliberate. God would induce love in our hearts for Himself. And so too in Romans 8:32, we read "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him freely give us all things?" We have the gift; we have the will of God in the sent One; and then we have a beautiful touch in the reference to God not sparing Him. How easily we spare when it comes to the things of God! How sparing we are with our pocket-books sometimes, and yet in 2 Corinthians the pocket-book of the saints is touched after the love of God is unfolded. Then again, how easily one spares oneself -- one's body; as Peter says to the Lord, "Pity thyself Lord, this shall not be unto thee", Matthew 16:22, margin. How often we use these terms in regard of ourselves; how we do pity ourselves, and take our ease in consequence, forgetting that it is the time of the altar, it is not the time of the bed. It is not the time for sitting down, letting our hands hang down, it is the time of the altar -- the time of privilege. God spared not His own Son, and sparing not His own Son He spared not Himself. If I "turn aside" Exodus 3:3 to look at this, I love God, and if I love God in the light of this, I do not spare myself. As one said, "Now I shall most gladly spend and be utterly spent for your souls" 2 Corinthians 12:15 -- that is the principle.

You see, these are all phases of divine revelation, and all divinely intended to induce love for God, and as lovers of God, we shine. If I take John 3:16, I shine universally; I am not narrow. If I love God in the light of that passage, I am evangelical, and I

shall not spare myself in evangelical energies. If I see the love of God to us, that He sent His Son that we might live through Him, I love the brethren. "He that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?" 1 John 4:20; hence the commandment that "He who loveth God love his brother also". 1 John 4:21. You see how the revelation of God, as thus apprehended, produces lovers of God; first in evangelical energies, and then in love for the brethren -- I see how much they are to God. As it says again, "He laid down his life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren", 1 John 3:16.

There is just another word referring again to Romans 8:3: "His own Son". "What the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God having sent his own Son, in likeness of flesh of sin, and for sin, has condemned sin in the flesh". Here it is God's own Son sent in connection with a particular hindrance; that is to say, "sin in the flesh" stood in the way of God, and it stood in the way of man. "What the law could not do, in that it was weak", not in itself but "through the flesh". Think what it meant to God to send His own Son in the likeness of flesh of sin! How He felt His beloved Son being made sin; "and for sin!" "He was made a little lower than the angels", we are told, "for the suffering of death". Hebrews 2:9. Did God not feel His humiliation? He did, beloved. Now if I apprehend God in that light, I shall go down. If I see that because of something a certain divine end cannot be reached, I must go down. It may be I am standing in the way. The principle is to go down -- humiliation. I refer to that as a feature that enters into our love for God. Those who love God will be like that; there will be a readiness to go down, to be humiliated. Think of our Lord Jesus Christ, beloved! Think of the extent of His humiliation! The Lord of glory,

the Upholder and Creator of all things -- that He should be here a lowly Man in the likeness of flesh of sin; and that then He should be for sin, for He was made sin! How little we understand it! But it enters into the revelation of God. I beg of you to notice the words 'own' and 'only-begotten' throughout these passages, so that God may be before our souls, that we may be lovers of God.

Then, too, we read, "All things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose". Romans 8:28. God contemplated having lovers, He has gone to the utmost expense, so to speak, to have them, and He has got them. It is a question for each one of us as to whether he is amongst them. And then a wonderful thing comes out -- that those who are lovers of God are "the called according to his purpose". Ephesians 1:11. The two things go together. As I have come to love God, I am ready for Ephesians, hence Romans introduces me, or prepares me for Ephesians. I find, as a lover of God, that God had me in His heart and in His mind before the world was. Can anything exceed that, dear brethren? I am "called according to his purpose". Ephesians 1:11. I am prepared now for Ephesians, where I am taught that I was foreknown; that I have been predestinated unto sonship through Jesus Christ to God. If you read Ephesians you will find that God is the dominating feature. It must be so. Even in regard to the assembly it is "To him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages. Amen". Ephesians 3:21.

I believe the Holy Spirit would lead us in these last days to a knowledge of God, that we may be lovers of God, that there may be the shining like the sun, and that the dispensation may go out in brilliancy. May God bless His word to us!

READING

Romans 8:1 - 15: Malachi 2:4 - 7.

J.T. I have been thinking that it might be helpful, especially to young believers, to see that the thought of priesthood in Romans (for indeed the germ of everything that is for the believer is in Romans) develops particularly in the way in which he comes to recognise law, as seen in this epistle.

The element of law is necessarily interwoven in the priestly constitution, so that the believer begins, according to chapter 7, with "delight in the law of God after the inward man", Romans 7:22 and in chapter 8 he fulfils its righteous requirements as having the Holy Spirit. Then he comes to see that as a believer he has part in the enforcement of law, not in the way of legal requirement, but in the Spirit; "the letter kills, but the Spirit quickens". 2 Corinthians 3:6. He is delivered from the law in the legal aspect of it by the body of Christ, that he might serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of the letter. It is, I think, from the want of understanding the element of law -- divine righteous requirement -- that there is so much moral weakness and looseness, and so little sense of responsibility to God in the assembly. I believe it will help us, especially the young, if we look at law from this point of view. It is important to see that we are all priests as having the Holy Spirit, and that as priests we have part in the assembly, and have responsibility in regard of the law that governs the house of God; for the priests were charged with the law that governed the offerings, and indeed law in general was entrusted to the priest; it says here in Malachi, "they should seek the law at his mouth".

W.J.H. "Being not without law"; delivered from the letter of it, but not being without law. 1 Corinthians 9:21.

There has been a tendency with many of us to overlook that side in connection with grace.

Grace does not set any of us in a position, in relation to God or to one another, as without law.

J.T. In chapter 7, where the great question of law is worked out in the soul, the speaker refers to the principle, and he says that he delights in it after the inward man. Then in learning the principle of it thus in his soul, and finding that he can fulfil the righteous requirements of it by the Spirit of God, the flesh having been condemned, he comes into what is called in Ezekiel "the law of the house", Ezekiel 43:12 that is Christianity. Even the life into which we are introduced has a law -- "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus".

The epistles to the Corinthians are, we might say, the law for which we as priests are responsible to God. "If any one thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him recognise the things that I write to you, that it is the Lord's commandment", 1 Corinthians 14:37. Commandment is equivalent to law -- the law governing the saints, and every one of us is tested as to whether he recognises that.

J.F. In what way are we tested?

J.T. By the way we take things up, I think, in our meetings for prayer, and our general outlook. It is a challenge, as one might say, for every one who assumes to be a prophet or spiritual, as to how far he has taken care of the law of the house of God. Were you to apply to one of the leading men in Christendom who claims to be a prophet or spiritual, as to how far he recognises these epistles as the commandments of the Lord, you would bring out how things are. And so as applied to every one of us present, old and young -- How far have I recognised the commandment of the Lord, not only in regard of myself, but in regard of the house?

F.F. Is that where Romans 8:14 comes in, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God"?

J.T. I think there you have the relationship which underlies priesthood. Those who have the Spirit are marked off as sons of God. And so it says, "For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father", verse 15. Crying Abba, Father, I think, is a priestly act; it is approach to God.

A.N. Is your thought that you cannot be in the exercise of priesthood, apart from being subject to rule?

J.T. That is what I was thinking. So that the youngest believer, if he has gone through Romans 7, should know something about it. It is in beginning to have respect for divine rule, and that sense gradually enlarging, that you are concerned about all that God has unfolded in the way of law.

P.L. God has to say to the believer in connection with law, and the believer has to say to God in connection with priesthood.

W.J.H. It is interesting to see that at the time when the Lord came, divine righteousness was secured and maintained in Zacharias and Elizabeth -- they walked "in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless", Luke 1:6. Although things around were in such a low state, yet they themselves were governed by every ordinance.

J.T. It would be in keeping with Malachi. One of the last words is, "Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel;" Malachi 4:4. We are occupied perhaps unduly with the legal side of the law, and have overlooked the spiritual side of it. For that reason Romans 7 is very important. It is perhaps the most discussed chapter amongst the people of God, and I think if it were gone through

more, especially by young believers, the principle of law would be better understood. There is no more important thing in the whole universe than law, whether you look at it morally or physically; nothing can be held together without law. So the law (spiritually understood) even in the Old Testament, was regarded not as something opposed to the people, or as an oppression upon them, but as "the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob", Deuteronomy 33:4.

A.N. How do you understand the early part of chapter 7 where it speaks of being dead to the law by the body of Christ that we should be to Another; does that refer to the legal system?

J.T. That was the legal system. And so it goes on to say, "Having died in that in which we were held, so that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter". Romans 7:6. We are to serve; and as the priests served in connection with the legal thing, so we are to serve in newness of spirit. The chapter shows, if it is rightly understood, that we come to see the law, and to delight in it after the inward man, for in proceeding to the law that governs our own dispensation particularly, God is not going to pass over that which governed a previous dispensation. In its literal aspect we are dead to it, but in its spiritual aspect it remains, and the believer learns this at the very outset of his history. The law is a most valuable testimony from God, and the soul acknowledges that. So valuable was it that the Lord, in becoming man, had it in His heart; and the believer delights in it after the inward man. If you understand Romans 7 you correspond with Christ in regard to the law.

E.A. Is that the law that James speaks of?

J.T. The royal law. Exactly This epistle establishes law in its own dignity, and the believer acknowledges that.

P.L. So in Psalm 119:174, "O, Jehovah, and thy law is my delight. Let my soul live ..."

and then the Songs of degrees immediately follow which develop what is priestly.

J.T. Law is fully taken account of in the longest psalm, where all is worked out on the principle of severe exercise. It is an alphabetical psalm, meaning that the soul has gone through every item of it, letter by letter, and delights in it; then follow the Songs of degrees -- you begin to mount up. But God will not have His law passed by; we correspond with Christ as we value it. Then you mount up till you arrive at Psalm 134, where you are a priest standing in the house of the Lord by night.

A.N. I suppose the tendency has been with us, in seeking to be clear of the legal system which is called law, to lose sight of that which is suitable to God -- that which is regulated by Him.

J.T. I think so. I think these verses therefore in the beginning of chapter 8 bring out what God had said to Levi, "My covenant with him was of life and peace". "the mind of the Spirit is life and peace". I think there is a correspondence there; the believer in these verses is a qualified priest.

W.J.H. He got the covenant on account of "the fear wherewith he feared". Would that be the qualification you speak of?

J.T. Well, I think you see the elements that lead to priesthood. "My covenant with him was of life and peace, and I gave them to him that he might fear; and he feared me, and trembled before my name". That shows what marks the true priest.

Ques. Would Ezra be an example of what we are speaking of? He read the statutes of the law of Moses.

J.T. Quite. He is a typical priest of the Old Testament. He is introduced in that way; his genealogy is given to show that he was a priest. He was a ready scribe, too, in the law of God.

W.J.H. I suppose Levi recognised his responsibility when he stood for God. He did not wait for his neighbour, he stood for God himself. Would that be a mark of priesthood?

J.T. I think that was how he qualified; he rallied to Moses in the presence of idolatry. Then Phinehas (who I think is a spiritual representative of the house of Levi) secured the blessing by the use of the sword. When the people were about to be corrupted by the Midianitish wiles, he saved the position by using the sword.

A.N. When it speaks of "My covenant with him was of life and peace", I suppose Levi earned it in a way, but we do not earn it, do we?

J.T. I think one gets good wages by going through Romans 7; one comes into the elements of priesthood. The lack of these elements is where the weakness lies with young believers. Directly you connect law with God, then you have the moral and spiritual element.

Ques. How do you understand John 1:17. "The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ"?

J.T. There again it is the legal side, I think.

P.L. Mary sitting at His feet and hearing His word -- would that be her regard for law as found in Christ, and is she developing priesthood in that spirit?

J.T. That is so. Whatever He said would be the law of His mouth to her.

J.S. I suppose if you are waiting on Christ for guidance, the Spirit will connect you with Christ, and you will get direction from Him?

J.T. That is right; but then there is the constitution of the priest, which is important in the Old Testament, and the food that builds up the constitution. The food that was the portion of the priests, all speak of the features of Christ, whether it be in His humanity or in His self-sacrificing love. The

priest usually had part in the meat-offering, in the sin-offerings that were not burnt, and in the trespass-offerings. He had a good supply of food -- all that would build him up in the features of Christ. We begin on that line in chapter 7. One great feature of Christ was His rigid adherence to the law of God; He had it in His heart. He magnified the law and made it honourable. So Romans 7 develops that the believer delights in the law of God after the inward man; in his innermost being he delights in it, and that is a fibre of his nature ever afterwards.

A.N. He is unable to carry it out.

J.T. That is another thing. But you have got the nature of the thing; how he carries it out comes out in the next chapter. But his delight in the law of God is deeply rooted in his inner being.

Ques. That is the germ of priesthood?

J.T. That is one great fibre in the constitution of it.

Ques. Is that produced through deep exercise?

J.T. That is so. In chapter 8 you emerge from that to the Christian position. In the end of chapter 7 he says, "Who shall deliver me? ... . I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord". Romans 7:24,25. That is life. He has got a glimpse of Christ as his Deliverer; and in chapter 8 it is "the law of the Spirit of life"; it is still law, but now passing over to another principle -- the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

P.D. Would you say that having the Spirit of Christ as referred to in chapter 8, would cover pretty much what we have been saying: "If any one has not the Spirit of Christ he is not of him"?

J.T. Quite so. But then there is the law of the Spirit of life, not merely the Spirit of life, but the law of it.

W.S. Do we not get the contrast, "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death"?

J.T. Yes. "God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh". The law is not condemned; it is holy, just and good, but sin in the flesh is condemned. So that in emerging from that, as knowing the law and delighting in it, I am prepared by the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus to fulfil the righteous requirements of the law; and I see the importance of it as a witness for the testimony. Then follows, "The mind of the Spirit life and peace". I apprehend that one corresponds with Levi as having that.

A.N. You get them brought together, do you not, in the beginning of Luke 1:74, "That we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies" -- that is the seventh chapter -- I am delivered from the elements that hindered me, but the object in view is, "That we ... might serve him without fear in holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life"? That is priestly.

J.T. That is exactly the thing; so in this seventh chapter it is that we might serve in newness of spirit.

P.L. Do you get the thought, "Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God", 2 Corinthians 1:21? Are we established on the principle of law, and then are we anointed?

J.T. Just so. If we pursue the line of law, understanding it is not the legal system we are dealing with, but what God speaks of as law in a spiritual sense, we emerge into the assembly, and know how to act there; we are constituted priests. In every one of our localities we are confronted with complex questions. We have to discern, and it is said, "the spiritual discerns all things". 1 Corinthians 2:15. We have to discern doctrines, we have to discern principles, we have to discern persons. We are confronted with these things in every locality, and it is of the very last importance that young people should see that they are prepared to meet them. So that we are faced with the need

of this principle -- that of discerning -- at the very beginning of our spiritual career.

A.N. So that even deliverance, and being brought into liberty and joy, do not go so far as the real object in view, which is the service of God?

J.T. That is so. You serve in newness of spirit, not in oldness of letter. When you come to Levi as the type, it says, "He feared me and trembled before my name". He is a delivered man, he has got the covenant of life and peace, he is set up in liberty, established in it, and yet he fears God.

Ques. Would you say that in that way we would get a covenant of life and peace?

J.T. Well, I suppose we cannot continue in the covenant of life and peace unless there is the fear of God. We have to say to God about conditions in our locality, as well as in our own walk. A priest has to answer to God as to all that takes place in the assembly, and what is very noticeable is that "the law of truth was in his mouth". Truth is one of the most difficult matters amongst us; and note, it is not simply that truth is in his mouth, but the law of truth.

J.F. Hence in Psalm 37:30, "The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment. The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide".

J.T. Law is a subtle thing; law regulates everything in the physical and moral universe. I do not believe there is anything in the physical universe not governed by law, and the same applies to the moral universe, so that when you come to truth, there is the law of it. You not only think of the words you are using, but the value of them, and the possible misconception of them; you have to guard against that and to be sure there is no deception.

A.N. "Clear as crystal", Revelation 22:1 because it proceeds out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. God and the

Lamb are in control, and whatever has its source there is clear as crystal -- "a pure river of the water of life". Revelation 22:1.

J.D. And does not the law apply particularly as well as generally?

J.T. Quite. I may say the truth literally and yet deceive, but the law of truth does not miscarry. That is what you are concerned about, that truth may remain whatever words are used.

P.L. So that the man in James, speaking of the perfect law of liberty weighs his words as governed by that law.

J.T. "If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man". James 3:2. But if you have the law of truth you do not deceive any one, although your words may be imperfect.

W.A. With regard to the virtuous woman, the law of kindness is upon her tongue; Proverbs 31:26. The law of truth is exercised as governed by the law of kindness.

W.J.H. It becomes increasingly evident that law really makes for liberty. It is where law is absent that there is bondage; where law prevails there is liberty, and this is equally true individually and in a locality.

W.S. In the third of John, "He that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God". John 3:21.

J.T. Law is a principle that governs all these things -- the law of truth, the law of kindness, and that is what you are concerned about, rather than the letter.

Ques. You would say that, viewed spiritually, the law is never weak? It says it was weak through the flesh, but the thing that rendered it weak has been condemned.

J.T. The Lord in true priestly power summarised the law really from the standpoint of Deuteronomy. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself", Matthew 22:37 - 39.

Ques. Would you say that love is the righteous requirement?

J.T. Deuteronomy has to be understood, I think, to know what is meant by "the righteous requirement". It is from that point of view that the law is said to be the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob. You cannot have a congregation without law.

W.A. Is that the reason why Moses commanded the priests, the sons of Levi, to read the law before all Israel at the end of every seven years; Deuteronomy 31:9 - 11?

J.T. Quite so. What comes out in Leviticus is the law of the priest; you get light governing the offerers in chapters 1 to 5; then the Lord addresses Moses in regard to Aaron, "Speak to Aaron and his sons", Leviticus 6:25 and He unfolds the law governing these offerings, for which the priest would be responsible. First we are told how to bring our offerings, but after that the priest had the obligation of seeing to it that the rights of God were maintained in regard to these offerings. If you take our morning meetings, these are under the supervision of the priests. You may bring an offering, but it comes under the supervision of the priest; he is in charge of the law. Then if it is a question of discipline, if it is a question of discerning evil, the priesthood is brought forward, so that we cannot get on without the priest.

W.J.H. Do you think it is important in that connection to see that in the mind of God all should be spiritual, all should be priests, and there is spiritual capacity for that to be true of every one in measure?

Rem. Your thought is that the youngest believer should be exercised in regard of this matter.

W.J.H. We have suffered much from brethren

and sisters looking upon spirituality as something beyond them, something requiring many years' experience, but I think the giving of the Spirit had in view that everyone should be spiritual, and there is power in the Spirit that it might be true of everyone.

J.T. It would save us from permitting the affairs of the assembly to drift into the hands of a few; these affairs belong to every one in the assembly, for each one is a priest and obligated in regard of the law.

W.J.H. Hence the importance of law, if every one is a priest; Uzziah shows the solemnity of a lawless person acting as a priest; he is stricken with leprosy; 2 Chronicles 26:19.

Ques. Is it the priests who have charge of the house?

J.T. That is right; the priest is over all the sanctuary, responsible to God in regard of it.

A.N. When it speaks of heavenly service, "His servants shall serve him" Revelation 22:3, every element of evil will then be eliminated -- there will be nothing but what is according to God. But God has in view that there should be a present answer to it now, and it would be essential that the flesh does not intrude -- there is to be subjection to the law of God.

P.L. The word of the Lord is "All things which are written in the law of Moses ... . concerning me", Luke 24:44. The Lord throws a lustre, does He not, upon the law?

Ques. Would you give us a little help regarding "walking in the flesh" and "walking in the spirit"?

J.T. Walking in the flesh is that you are governed by fleshly motives; your conduct would be fleshly, the arms of your warfare would be fleshly, and alas, it often arises that one sees these things amongst us -- fleshly feelings, fleshly weapons and artifices employed to attain certain ends. But the mind of the Spirit is life and peace. One loves that thought; you are restful in the sense of the relationship you are brought

into with God, you have nothing to concern yourself about but what is due to God. Hence "The law of truth was in his mouth, and unrighteousness was not found in his lips". We do well to take note of the reference here to the mouth and the lips, because it is what passes the mouth and the lips that causes all the trouble. Even a great man like Moses sinned by speaking unadvisedly with his lips.

Ques. And what is walking in the Spirit?

J.T. I think you are restful, and you are governed by spiritual sensibilities and feelings, then the law of truth, and righteousness, and kindness will develop in you. All these things will mark what you have to say.

P.L. "Thy lips are like a thread of scarlet". Is that the royal law, the truth governing your lips, and then "Thy lips, O my spouse, drop as the honeycomb", Song of Songs 4:3,11; would that be what is priestly?

J.T. Yes, that would mean that you are not arbitrary or dictatorial, you are mutual, you take account of others.

A.N. Would Peter refer to it in principle when he speaks about the object for which we are set apart unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ? Nothing that His death has put away is permissible there; obedience and sprinkling of His blood are in view of priestly service. Do you think that is right?

J.T. Quite. So that we are said to be priests there in the second chapter, and we are to put away guile and hypocrisies, etc., and desire earnestly the pure mental milk of the word. We, "as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood". 1 Peter 2:5. But it is all on the line of Levi.

A.N. I was thinking that sometimes we make our own blessings the climax, but in reality it is that there might be something for God.

Ques. It says, "The priest's lips should keep knowledge". The priest always seems to know?

J.T. Well, I notice there it says, "He walked with me in peace and uprightness". He is in relation to God, he is concerned about God. Are we in our locality concerned about God, how we can move on with God? One is impressed with the place that peace has in all priestly service and influence. The man who is a priest, his influence is peaceful; he walks with God. He is a son of peace, he is concerned about peace and uprightness. What an asset the priest is, whether it be a brother or a sister! This passage, I think, is one of the finest passages we can get.

Rem. It shows the influence Levi had over others.

J.T. That is what I think comes out wherever a spiritual person is.

W.J.H. "Great peace have they which love thy law; and nothing shall offend them", Psalm 119:165. Nearly all the offences that come, come through lack of being regulated. If we are governed by what is due to God and what is due to others, it will be very difficult to offend us, because we are not on the line of what we are going to get ourselves.

J.T. And then it goes on, "He turned many from iniquity". See the power that goes with priesthood! Many are on the line of lawlessness now, alas I but the priesthood is effective in turning many from iniquity. There is a beautiful order, I think, in the description of the priest. And then it says, "For the priests' lips should keep knowledge". In turning people from lawlessness, he can convey the mind of God; what he says has weight. You want something that you can take hold of as a final word. A confirming word is an immense thing in times of trouble. Peter stands up after long discussion, in Acts 15, and recites the scripture governing the position, and it was convincing. Then James stands up, and he also cites

Scripture, and it carries conviction, so that the whole assembly send their decision. "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us" Acts 15:28; that was the result. All the assembly was carried. It is the word of a priest that has weight with it. "The priest's lips should keep knowledge; and they should seek the law at his mouth". How much that is needed in these days of local troubles -- a word that is convicting, a word that carries weight, and becomes final!

A.N. "If any man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge", 1 Corinthians 14:37 and "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God". John 7:17. If my will is in activity it will blind me, although the mind of God may be there.

J.T. Yes, indeed. You find a beautiful illustration of a word that carried weight in the wise woman of Abel; 2 Samuel 20:16. One sees in her the working of wisdom in a locality. In the second book of Samuel there is the working of evil, first in the case of Absalom, where the evil takes a general form, a general outbreak, then in the case of Sheba when the outbreak took a local form; he was shut up in a walled city. The latter is the form of evil we have to do with now. Thank God, we are saved from general cleavage, we have had our sorrows in that way, of course, but now the enemy is working on the line of local eruptions. So Sheba said, "Every man to his tents, O Israel". 2 Samuel 20:1. Well, he was shut up in a city; it became a local matter, and was confined to one locality. Joab would have destroyed the city in order to get the offender. That is what Satan would love, if he could break up a local meeting through disintegration, or whatever the means, to break up the assembly. The wise woman says to Joab, "They were wont to speak in old time saying, Just inquire in Abel; and so they ended". 2 Samuel 20:18. I think she called attention to first principles, in old time it was said, inquire in Abel.

Evidently there was something that was final, some means of reaching a final decision; and there is in every case a way out, if it can only be found. It seems to me to point to what is available in every locality. If we understand the truth of the temple at all, if we enquire on that line, there will be a way out. Get help wherever you can, of course, but there is local enquiry, a taking account of things where the trouble is, as before God, and then reaching a final decision. We read that this wise woman went to all the people of the city in her wisdom, and she carried them. She must have been a priest. She was a priest, for she is called a wise woman by the Spirit of God. She carried all the people, so that they cut off the man's head -- they did it (she did not do it) and threw it over the wall. It was a local action, done in wisdom, and it saved the city -- saved all that were there except the offender. That is what we want; it is a priestly thing.

P.L. Was Paul's letter to the Corinthians to lead them to deal with the evil, so that the offender's head might be thrown over the wall?

J.T. I believe that if brethren take things up thus, according to the features of Levi -- the law of truth in his mouth, unrighteousness not found in his lips, walking with God in peace and uprightness, that things will be brought to a head. But all the saints must be exercised. It is a question of whether we respond to the law of God, and as all are exercised the evil will be located in whomsoever it may be, and the saints will be saved and Satan will be defeated.

A.N. The wise woman carried the consciences of the whole city.

J.T. She went to them all in her wisdom.

A.N. That would have an answer today, would it not?

J.T. It has indeed. Going to all the people in her wisdom, she would be very considerate; in going

to an old man, she would take account of his experience; and she would be wise in the way she dealt with a young man. She would not antagonise anyone; she would act wisely She went to them all, and they did the thing, she did not do it. It is an assembly matter, the thing has to be dealt with by the assembly, because that is where the authority is. Her object in the offender being dealt with was that the inheritance of Jehovah might not be swallowed up.

SPIRITUALITY

John 3:6; John 4:24 - 29; John 6:66 - 69: John 12:3

I have before me to speak of the features of spirituality, bearing in mind that "the spiritual discerns all things, and he is discerned of no one". 1 Corinthians 2:15. That statement shows what a spiritual person is, what his value is as in this world, where sin and its workings have rendered everything complex. Now John aims at building up the believer in what is spiritual, and he has particularly in view that it should work out in family relationships; and he would indicate in what he has to say that natural family relationships interfere more than anything else with the working out of spiritual family relationships. It is said that that which was first was not spiritual. Adam was not created in that connection, that is as spiritual, although he had a spirit, but in the thought of God he was contemplated as natural. It is further said that he was earthy, as of the earth, and it is definitely stated that that which was first was not spiritual, but natural, and afterward that which was spiritual.

Now John is occupied with what is "afterward" -- that which is spiritual, and so in the chapter preceding this, when the Lord is addressed by His mother after the flesh, who evidently assumed a right to address Him, saying, "They have no wine", He repudiated her claim, saying, "Woman, what have I to do with thee?" John 2:3,4. He was reminding her that that which was 'first', which was natural, was being superseded, that He was on the line of the spiritual. And the effect of His word shows itself immediately in her, for she submits. She gives us a lead in that way, saying to the servants, "Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it". John 2:5. She thus extricated

herself, as you might say, from the position of the first, the natural, and took her place in the second. So that it says after this, He went down with her and abode with her. It is only as we submit to what He says that we can hope to have any such privilege, for He will not be with us on the line of the natural, but on the line of the spiritual.

Now John has in mind, as I said, to develop this spiritual line in connection with family relationships; these are seen in chapter 20, so well known to us, "Go to my brethren". John 20:17. These are not His brethren after the flesh, nor are they even His brethren on moral lines (although the moral must underlie it) but they are His brethren from the standpoint of divine counsel -- the highest possible standpoint or platform upon which a family can be regarded. There can be nothing higher, dear brethren, than that we should be the subjects of divine counsels, which means that before the world was, it was designed in the heart of God that there should be brethren for Christ. The standpoint is so exalted, and the relationship so great for it is relationship to the One who ascends in personal right into heaven -- that it is obvious we must be formed for it, and to be formed for it we have to begin, as it were, at the bottom, and that we get in this chapter, "That which is born of the Spirit is spirit".

There was nothing born in Adam of the Spirit. He received his spirit from God, but the new thing begins with the idea of birth -- not creation, but birth, and so the family idea enters into the mind at the outset. The thing born (for it is neuter) is spirit.

Now before proceeding on this line, I just wish to remind you of the corresponding passage in the Old Testament, and I may say in passing, that generally you will find a corresponding passage in the Old Testament to any passage in the New. The corresponding passage to this -- Ezekiel 36 -- is preceded by

a divine denunciation of false brethren. God had in His mind brethren according to His eternal counsels, and these begin with the idea of being born throughout from top to bottom; and so in order to clear the ground for the great subject on hand in Ezekiel, a whole chapter is devoted to the fiercest denunciation of false brethren -- of Edom. He was a brother, but a brother marked by the flesh; a brother who throughout his career was opposed to him that was on the line of the Spirit. So Esau is to be desolate, his mountains are to be filled with his slain, he is not to continue with the brother born after the Spirit, any more than Ishmael was to occupy the house with Isaac. It is important, dear brethren, to bear this in mind, because the Old Testament helps us in understanding the mind of God in the New. And so before the thirty-sixth chapter of Ezekiel you have the thirty-fifth, which foretells, as I said, God's denunciation and judgment on Esau; as He says later, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated". Romans 9:13. If we are to understand what that means, that God should love Jacob, we have to understand these chapters in John, for God loved, dear brethren, what was lovable. Are we to deny Him that? Certainly I could not deny God that; He asserts His right to love what is lovable, and to hate what is hateful.

Well now, we have the foundation in this chapter -- born of the Spirit. One is always (especially of late) impelled to address oneself to young people. As has been remarked today, they scarcely take to themselves the idea of spirituality, whereas it should appear at the very outset of their history as believers; hence the Lord brings it in here in this setting. We have a great deal said, too, in this passage about the Lord's knowledge. It is well that someone knows. You may say, I do not know, but it is well that someone knows. So we find men affected by externals -- many believed on Him because of the miracles. Now

We are living in times in which there are not only many, but millions of people who are affected by externals. They are nominally Christians, and hence Christendom presents the most complex area in the whole world, and for that reason young believers, and even unspiritual persons who may be more advanced, are greatly exposed to deception by what they see around. Myriads of genuine believers are deceived by what they see. Hence, beloved, the importance of taking into account that someone knows -- and you want to find the Person who knows. Therefore it says in the end of the second chapter that "He knew all men, and needed not that any should testify of man, for he knew what was in man". John 2:24,25. I know tonight One who knows all men. He knows the Chinese, the Hindu, the African, the inhabitants of the islands of the sea innumerable, and He knows the Europeans -- He knows them all. He is not deceived by the veneer of mere religion; He is not occupied with externals, He knows the root of things, He knows the inner motives and springs that govern men. I know that One. He further says to Nicodemus, "If I have told you earthly things and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you of heavenly things?" John 3:12 "We speak", He says, "that we do know, and testify that we have seen, and ye receive not our witness". John 3:11. That is where the difficulty lies. We have One who knows, and He testifies accordingly, but men do not receive His testimony. They turn to all sorts of people for testimony, and we have all sorts of investigations going on in regard of man, whereas the truth is that it is all out; there is One who knows, but He says, no one receives our testimony. Men turn aside to listen to mortal man, and his wretched investigations as to what he finds on the earth, whereas the "Son of man who is in heaven" John 3:13 knows all and He testifies of all. Wonderful, beloved, that we have a testimony from His lips to all!

Indeed it was said of old in Ecclesiastes, "What man is, is known". Ecclesiastes 6:10.

And so in connection with this truth that I am dealing with, we have much in regard of One who knows, and He is occupied with men to build them up in what is spiritual. He knows whether there is that in you which He speaks of here, "that which is born of the Spirit". If it be not there, beloved friends, you may depend upon it, you will never progress spiritually, however much you may pretend to know; you may even be breaking bread. But God knows just what is there; if there is that which He speaks of as "born of the Spirit", it remains. The Lord, I believe, would raise that question with every one of us, whether we have begun aright, whether the ground is clear.

Well now, I want to go on to the next chapter, because we get development in this gospel. But one might refer to verse 16 for a moment, for alongside this question of One who knows, we have things dealt with at the source. Sin is dealt with at its source, "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up". John 3:14 God says, I intend to show you the source of all good -- that is in my own heart; but in order that there may be room for that, everything else must be dealt with, root and branch. At the moment it is in men's souls that God is operating; but presently He is going to operate on a wider scale. In Luke we have it stated that the Lord was casting out a demon. What becomes of the demon when he goes out? It is not my concern what becomes of the demon, but it is one of the most sorrowful considerations we can think of. The demon will be dealt with later, but how terrible it is to think that the demons go out and nothing more is said about them. What has become of them? The world and its history testify to what has become of them. They have their part

in the building up of this awful world; that is what has become of the demons. Legislators cannot hope to control these demons; they may do their utmost, but they cannot control them. What an awful world it is, demons unrestricted having their part in it! But the Lord wants the vessel out of whom the demon is cast, and He intends to fill that vessel with divine things, with heavenly things; He intends to fill it with the Spirit of God come down from heaven. That is Christianity; a number of persons out of whom the demon is ejected, and themselves filled with the Holy Spirit. That is the divine thought. And let me tell you, beloved, it is a most serious thing to be empty, to be unoccupied. The Lord pictures the man out of whom the demon is cast, who remains unoccupied, as "swept and garnished". Luke 11:25. He may pride himself and say, I am not a heathen, I am not a Jew, I am a Christian. Nevertheless, he is unoccupied by the Spirit of God; he is unoccupied by heavenly things, and what happens to him? The demon comes back again with seven other spirits worse than himself. What about your sweeping, what about your adornment, if the demon comes back with seven others worse than himself? It is a terrible contemplation, beloved friends, but it is a solemn warning to every one to be sure that he is a vessel of the Spirit, that he is not unoccupied.

Now when I come to chapter 4 I come to the vessel. In chapter 3 God has come out in grace, and dealt with sin at its root, so that we might know the love of God, and that we might have everlasting life. But now, what about the vessel? This woman had a body, and in that body she had been sinning; the demon, so to say, had controlled her. We read of one woman out of whom were cast seven demons -- Mary Magdalene -- that wonderful woman of whom the Holy Spirit delights to tell us, and who was made the bearer of the message of which I have been

speaking: "Go to my brethren". John 20:17. He cast out of her seven demons. She did not remain unoccupied; she loved the Lord Jesus, she must have Him. The Holy Spirit brings Him into the soul. As it says, "If Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin". Romans 8:10. It is occupied livingly, and is dead in regard to sin, never again to be employed in the ways of sin. Well, this is what I think we get in chapter 4, and I dwell on it for a little because of the value of our bodies. Our bodies are said to be members of Christ. Romans develops the truth governing our bodies; in chapter 6 the members are to be used as instruments of righteousness unto God, and in chapter 12 they are to be presented a living sacrifice unto God. You see thus, dear brethren, the value of our bodies; but they are only valuable as occupied by the Holy Spirit. Unless occupied by the Holy Spirit they are sure at some time or another to come under the influence of the devil, and to be turned against God and against Christ. It were better that one should have, as it says, a millstone tied about his neck and be cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of the little ones. Hence, if one's hand offend him, cut it off; if his eye offend, pluck it out. The object is to be occupied by the Spirit. And beloved, that is not an irksome thing, for the Lord immediately spoke to the woman of what should be in a person -- "a well of water springing up into everlasting life". John 4:14. What a delightful way to be occupied inwardly -- to have a living spring in you! meaning that the body is no longer a vessel of corruption, but having in itself the power of cleansing -- for it is water, but more than that living water springing up.

I want to show how this woman indicated that she was spiritual. You are spiritual in taking account of the Lord Jesus as the One who knows; as taking account of how God has dealt with things at their source, and how He has shown the love of His heart.

Your taking account of these things is the beginning of the evidence of spirituality. In chapter 4 we have the formal statement that "God is a Spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth". Now the woman indicated that she was spiritual in this connection. John says, "The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city and saith to the men, Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did; is not this the Christ?" Now I take that to mean that the Holy Spirit wishes to convey to us that that woman was spiritual in regard of her body. Many of you young people have little conception of the value of your bodies (perhaps some of us older ones, too). This woman had brought out her waterpot to draw water with it. She might have filled it, carried it back into the city and used it for whatever purpose she had intended. That might have been done, and the Holy Spirit said nothing at all about it, but the Holy Spirit says that she left it. She had discovered by what the Lord said to her that her body was to be a vessel of the Spirit. A wonderful discovery! My body is henceforth to be regarded in a new light. "Know ye not", says the apostle, "that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body". 1 Corinthians 6:19,20. And this is what she would do. She had been dishonouring God, she had been violating every right principle governing marriage, now she is glorifying God in her body. She says, This body of mine belongs to God; I am going to use it for Him. I am not going to wait, I am going to use it now. I do not say she understood all that I am saying now, but that was at the bottom of it. She began to use it at once, and how? To speak about the Lord Jesus. Persons who knew her well before might point the finger of scorn at her, but nevertheless there was

power with her testimony, as there will be with every one who uses his body in a spiritual way. I venture to say she corresponds with the passage in Romans 8:10, "If Christ be in you the body is dead because of sin". She is no longer exposed to the temptations of the city; the body is dead so far as sin is concerned; Christ is in her. You say, How do I know that? Because she spake of Him. She says, "Is not this the Christ?" She spoke about the Christ before the Lord announced Himself to her as such: "I that speak unto thee am he". And He was in her. Do you believe it? That Christ should be in us is our salvation from the temptations of the city.

Let us pass on now to Peter, chapter 6. I take him to be spiritual in regard of the Lord's service. There are those who serve; there are the ministers. This is the one passage in John in which the disciples are alluded to in this formal way, as "the twelve". They are marked off, therefore, from ordinary disciples, and are regarded as the ministers. John is not given to say much on this line, he usually keeps the official out of sight, but he wishes to bring in one point, which is most important for those who serve amongst the saints. At that moment there was a drift away from Christ. "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him". It is a serious thing for the servants, those who preach and teach amongst the saints, to be carried away when there is a drift, and people are turning away from the Lord. I heard of a brother who, in a crisis, being away from his local meeting, reserved his judgment till he returned; he wanted to know the judgment of his local brethren and he would act on that. He was going with the drift. He was not a man of God. A man of God is one who stands by principles, stands by the brethren, of course, but stands by divine principles; God will stand by the brethren and save them. And so Peter says here,

"Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast words of life eternal". If I go with the crowd, where shall I get substance for ministry? Oh, you say, Go to college. Will I get it there? No, beloved, you will get no living words there. If I go with the drift I shall have no substance in my ministry, but if I stay with Christ I shall have substance. "Thou hast words of life eternal". Life eternal is, as it were, brought home to us in intelligibility by words. Words break the thing up for us intelligibly so that we can understand it. That is what the saints need. But if I go with the drift, I shall never get anything from Him. I may speak, I may preach, but I shall have no living words. Living words are all had from Christ. Stay by Him; that is the word for the minister. The sheep will come back for the food in time; one has seen that. "Thou hast words of life eternal. And we have believed and known" Peter adds; he was an experienced man. It is not 'We believe and know', it was what he had believed, up to that present time, and what he continued to believe -- what he knew. We need such brethren as Peter -- brethren of experience with the Lord Jesus. "We have believed and known that thou art the holy one of God". No one can serve the Lord, no one can be a true Levite, unless he understands the "holy one of God". Alongside of Peter, among the twelve, was a devil. It does not simply say that Judas had a devil, but he was one. The word usually translated 'devil' in the Authorised Version is 'demon', but here the word is 'devil', it means one who is opposed to God, an adversary. Think of one of the twelve being that! How solemn that is, and how obvious that we should understand Peter's confession of the "holy one of God"!

I refer now to the final thought I have in regard of the features of spirituality. Mary in chapter 12 is pre-eminently the spiritual representative of this

gospel. She had the pound of ointment. She was spiritually intelligent as to what was coming, as well as to what existed around the Lord Jesus; she knew He was about to die, six days before. She had light about the future, and she acted in that light in the present; she was governed by it. Now there is a beautiful touch that I may mention in chapter 11 about this dear woman. When the Lord came to the neighbourhood of Bethany, Lazarus being dead, Martha went off immediately to meet Him, but Mary sat still in the house. Now I do not say that her action was entirely justifiable, but I do say that it indicated a certain restfulness that belongs to spirituality. Martha, as one might say, was a member of the local assembly as much as Mary, and she came to meet the Lord. The Lord did not pass her by and say, I want to see Mary. No, beloved, the Lord takes account of the most unspiritual in the company. He does not pass by the most unspiritual amongst us, so long as we are one of His. He talked with Martha. She spoke in a very unintelligent way, as those who are unspiritual are sure to do; as soon as they open their mouth, their unspirituality is disclosed. Nevertheless, she was a genuine believer and a genuine lover of Christ, and so the Lord did not pass her by nor will He pass by the weakest of us. He stood and talked with Martha, answering her questions and instructing her. But He says, as it were, 'I am not going further', and presently what was spiritual became active -- Mary comes to Him. And that is what comes to pass in localities; what is spiritual will surely come to light. Mary knew how to be unperturbed even by the advent of so great a Person. But when Martha returns and says secretly, "The Master is come, and calleth for thee", John 11:28 she rose up quickly and came to Jesus. She was at His bidding. He does not come to her; the Holy Spirit says that He was still in the place where Martha met Him;

because, as I understand, He would honour the very humblest and most unspiritual one amongst us, and He expects all that are spiritual to come to where He is, and they do. They do not sit where they are to be visited. I should not care to be in that position, to sit to be visited; I want to go to the Lord; He is the One to be visited. So He called for Mary, and she rose up hastily. She could not brook delay now that He had called for her.

And what I want to point out, dear brethren, is this, that Mary had influence. When Martha went to see the Lord, not one went after her, she was allowed to go alone. As soon as Mary moved, others go after her. They knew how genuine she was. We may be assured of this, that if we are spiritual, the brethren will know it. You need not talk much about it. As soon as Mary moved, others followed her, and those who followed wept with her. And when the Lord saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her he was deeply moved. It is a beautiful scene; a scene of spiritual influence in a sister. And the Lord Himself is moved by it. It brings out the spirituality of Mary in a most striking manner, how much she was respected. I have thought a good deal lately that sisters are not valued, either by themselves or by others, as God intends they should be valued. Spirituality is influence that is priceless, whether it be in a man or in a woman. It has its own intrinsic value, and Scripture seems to emphasise its special value in a woman.

I just close with this one thought, that she had kept the pound of ointment. Spirituality is shown in the way you can conserve things and keep them for the opportunity when they will be of most service. You may have something very excellent, but it may not fit. You must learn (and if you are spiritual you will learn) to keep that until a more suitable occasion. A fitted moment will come, if you keep it; and the

longer you keep it (in a spiritual sense) the more valuable it will become. It was a pound -- a measured amount. A spiritual person will know when to begin and he will know when to stop. I think Mary represents the spirituality of measurement, for God is a God of measure. Paul knew his measure, "A measure to reach even unto you", 2 Corinthians 10:15 he says. Others did not have that, but he had it. It is an immense thing to know your measure; "according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith", Romans 12:3 as it says, and particularly, to measure the thing that I have wrought myself, that I have gathered up in my experience; God would have it compact, and to know when to stop. "The house was filled with the odour of the ointment". May God bless His word.

NEW THINGS

2 Kings 2:19 - 22: Luke 5:37 - 39; Colossians 3:10,11: Revelation 21:1 - 4

I have before me to speak of what is new. We have in Scripture, as of God, what is righteous, what is holy, and what is living, but we have emphasised also what is new; and perhaps we are less conversant with what is new than we are with these other features, especially as the material system of things, which is old, is what we are naturally most familiar with, and in itself is legitimate and right. God has not wholly given up what belongs to the old in that sense. Every creature of His is good. Our bodies are still in relation to the old, so that as accustomed to these things and these thoughts, it is perhaps difficult for us to enter on the new, but God has announced that He will make all things new. He announced by the prophet Isaiah, "Behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former shall not be remembered nor come into mind". Isaiah 65:17. So that in the Scriptures He prepares us for what is new. Peter says, "We according to his promise look for new heavens, and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness". 2 Peter 3:13. We have at the present time to practice righteousness in relation to the old, and in the millennium there will be a reign of righteousness in connection with the old, but for the dwelling-place of righteousness new heavens and a new earth are required. For if righteousness is to dwell it must be undisturbed. One idea of a dwelling-place in Scripture is a place undisturbed, a place into which nothing foreign enters, and I need not say that in the present order of things (what stands in connection with the present heavens and earth) there are such disturbances. Even the millennial kingdom, although perfect from its heavenly

point of view, is not a perfect condition. There will be decline in it. In the book of Numbers the offerings of the feast of tabernacles (which will have their proper fulfilment in that day) begin with thirteen bullocks and diminish to seven. Spiritual basis is perfect, but nevertheless there will be decline and ultimate rebellion against God; a rebellion indeed which is summarily dealt with, but nevertheless proving that the capability of it is there. Hence the government of God, as Peter deals with it, requires new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness is to dwell.

You will all remember how the tabernacle of old was marked by gold inside; now gold is symbolical of divine righteousness, of what God is as revealed in Christ. The tabernacle was intended to be a dwelling-place; for all outside was different. The sphere of the gold was then pointing to a time when there would be new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness would dwell. The assembly will be that, and, indeed, it was that at the outset. It was the home of righteousness. It was not simply that righteous things were done there, but righteousness had a home there, it had a home in the assembly, and it should have and it has, too, a home wherever the Holy Spirit has His way with us. Where Christ is the centre the Spirit has a home for righteousness. Now that is what God has in view -- new heavens and a new earth -- and we look for it. "We, according to his promise", Peter says, "look for new heavens and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness". 2 Peter 3:13. We look for that in the measure in which we feel the disregard of righteousness in this world, for God has promised that there will be a scene where righteous- ness will dwell.

Well, I want to show you, dear brethren, how we begin with what is new, and I take up the new cruse of which we read in 2 Kings. That book, as most of

us know, sets forth typically the present dispensation. It begins with one man falling, and another man ascending -- see chapters 1 and 2. It is Satan, as it were, falling from heaven, and the Lord Jesus Christ ascending into heaven. The king of Israel falls down through a lattice never to arise, and Elijah goes up into heaven in a whirlwind, that is typically Christ ascending into heaven; and Elisha receiving a double portion of his spirit is a type of the Spirit of God down here in us at the present time. Mark, a double portion of the Spirit! Then Elisha, taking up the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, smites the Jordan in the name of the Lord God of Elijah and returns in the power, I may say, of the double portion of Elijah's spirit to Jericho. There the men of the city called his attention to what was lacking in the city. It had a pleasant situation, but the water was naught and the ground barren. Just prior, however, to that, the sons of the prophets who were the religious descendants of men whom God had used in power, made an effort to set aside the great truth of the moment -- that is the truth of the ascension. They did not deny that the Jordan had been crossed as divided, but they tried to set aside the heavenly side of the truth governing that, that Christ has gone up into heaven. And so they persuaded the prophet to send fifty strong men to find Elijah. Fifty strong men! They were on the lines of the king of Israel, in that respect; he had his fifty strong men and another fifty. So these sons of the prophets had their fifty; they were not delivered from the old thing, they were like the world. Although they were sons of prophets, they had taken on the character of the world, and in that character, as you might expect, they were endeavouring to set aside the great truth of the moment, that is, that Elijah had been taken up into heaven, and that God was about to carry on and maintain a new system of things here.

Well now, the men of Jericho were not like that. They were men ready to be helped, ready to benefit by what was there, they were in readiness to benefit by what God provides, whatever it is. God has provided a means of help, and readiness to avail myself of it is sure to mean that I will obtain the help, and help is obtainable at the present time. Well, the men of Jericho had called attention, as I said, to the situation of the city; that it had a pleasant situation, but the land was barren and the waters were naught; and they knew that Elisha had the power of Elijah, and so they sought help. It is a very fine principle this at the very outset, to have a true estimate of the thing, a true estimate of existing need, and to look for help, for remedy. And so the Lord answers to such a wish and sets Himself to supply the remedy.

It required a new cruse. "Bring me a new cruse". You must begin with this principle, that it is not a question now of reformation, for Christianity is not that. John the baptist came in on that line, but the Lord Jesus came on the line of what is new. So the prophet requires a new cruse. He impressed all the men of Jericho at the outset that things must be on the principle of what is new. As I said, the sons of the prophets were on an opposing line, they were opposers; although recognising that Elisha had the power of Elijah, they nevertheless would set aside the great truth governing that, that is ascension, for the Holy Spirit here is a testimony to Christ in heaven. So the prophet required a new cruse with salt put therein; in other words, the men of Jericho, exercised about the situation, would be reminded of the element of preservation. Am I able to preserve a thing, not only to retain it in my mind, not only to remember it, but to carry it about for a week, perhaps, or a month, or a year, or ten years or a longer period? Can I take in a divine thought, a heavenly

thought, a spiritual thought and preserve it? I do not mean the words merely, beloved friends, but the thing! Now if I take the word 'church' or 'assembly' as an illustration; if I take it as it was employed by the Holy Spirit in the Acts, it meant then a living company in which Christ was supreme, in which, as I said, righteousness had a home. What has that word become in man's mind today? Has it been preserved? Take it from any dictionary; has it been preserved in its original sense? No, beloved friends, it has not been preserved. The word has degenerated into a dry stick, which has lost all its sap. Men do not recognise it now in the way that the Holy Spirit did at the beginning. Even the word 'God', the word 'Jesus', the term the 'Holy Spirit', almost every term in Scripture has lost its original significance -- I mean amongst professing believers generally. There has not been the element of preservation.

But now let me refer to the Lord Jesus as born into this world and anointed by the Spirit. In the gospel of Luke He goes into the synagogue, He takes up that portion of Scripture, the roll of the prophet Isaiah, and when He reads it, it takes on a living touch. If He spoke of the temple, as He did, He called it His Father's house. What freshness! And how such an impression would fall in freshness on the ears of the disciples whom He loved and who loved Him! What was there about that which had become "a den of thieves" Matthew 21:3, Mark 11:17, Luke 19:46 to indicate that it was His Father's house? But He says, "Make not my Father's house an house of merchandise". John 2:16. It acquired in His words a living touch. He also said, "With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you". Luke 22:15. The word had never so much power in anyone's lips; in His lips it meant all that it conveyed from God. And so, as referred to by Him, everything takes on a living touch. The law had become a dead thing in the hands of the

doctors of the law, but He took it up and put it in His heart; it was precious to Him. The law is holy, and just, and good, not a tittle of it shall pass till all be fulfilled; He had it in His heart, and carried it right through. Everything was taken up by Him from the divine side, and presented in its true relations, in freshness as it was at the outset; in other words, the salt was there, the element of preservation was present; and now Christianity in figure is to be introduced for that is what is typified in the passage I read.

The requirement is a new cruse with salt put therein. It refers to the company in the upper room in Acts 1 who had learned this great principle from Christ. We read that Peter stood up in the midst of the brethren; he dealt with the need of another apostle to take the place of Judas, and in that connection cited the Psalms; they were living in his mouth. He brought in the passage in divine intelligence that referred to the then position, even as the Lord had cited from the book of Isaiah the passage governing His own position in the synagogue at Nazareth. So Peter cites from the Psalms what governed the position in the upper room at that moment, that another must take up the bishopric of Judas. Then in further divine intelligence, he indicates that it should be one who had assembled with them all the time in which the Lord Jesus came in and went out among them, beginning from the baptism of John until the day He was taken up from them into heaven. It is the very same position as Judas had occupied, but Peter is dealing with it in a living way Peter thus brings out the preservative power that was there, for the Lord had educated him to that. Things are to be preserved in a living way, and so the Holy Spirit comes to that company, and Peter stands up on the day of Pentecost with the eleven. These twelve men had had a wonderful experience; the

Lord had selected them sovereignly, and called whom He Himself would. They were called on the principle of sovereign selection in order that they should be with Him, and that He might send them forth to preach. In being with Him they would learn this great principle of salt; indeed He had said to them, "Ye are the salt of the earth", Matthew 5:13 and they were that.

The Lord Himself had brought in the principle of preservation or salt, and under His influence they were a new cruse. They were a product of His own, wholly new, not born of flesh's will, nor of man's will; they were a wholly new thing born after Himself, and in them was this principle of salt -- of preserving things in freshness. So it says "The waters were healed to this day", that is to say, that the things of God continued long amongst the saints in their original freshness, for "to this day" always means that the thing had come down to the time of the writing, historic writing, divine writing, as shown long after the event. When you have "to this day" you may depend upon it attention is being called to the duration, the durableness of the thing. Among the early Christians there was the element of salt; divine things were preserved in freshness.

Well, I need not comment on the present application of this. If we are to be a new cruse it has to be after the original pattern. There must be a keeping under the influence of Christ to get the idea of salt in the vessel in which things are preserved in freshness for God. If things are to be preserved as they were introduced, it must be in persons; divine things are living things, and God is a living God, and if His things are to be preserved it must be in living persons. Now life, I suppose, is one of the greatest preservatives. As soon as the element of life ceases, decay sets in; corruption sets in when the principle of life is gone, and so it is spiritually. The salt really lies in the principle of life divinely given and maintained

in our souls; in virtue of that we have divine things preserved as they were introduced, and so, as I said, I need not comment on the present application of this. Each one of us has to be a new cruse in which salt is, so that the preservation of what God has so graciously recovered for us is there. Divine things must be preserved in persons. As Paul says, "The things that thou hast heard of me …. the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also". 2 Timothy 2:2. These things could not be handed down unless there is the vessel -- the new cruse. The apostle says also, "Keep, by the Holy Spirit which dwells in us, the good deposit entrusted", 2 Timothy 1:14.

I pass on now to speak of the new bottles. We are now dealing with that which can contain what is new. In Luke 5 the Lord taught in the order of constructive sequence. Scripture is remarkably constructive, it is not simply so many different sayings; they are put together in a constructive way and so in this chapter the Lord built up on the line of that which culminates in the thought of new bottles and new wine. I want to connect the thought of new with that which contains the thing in its fulness, carrying the idea of newness forward from the cruse with salt in it. There was at the beginning of Christianity the element of preservation, so also, that of strength to contain, and I want now to go back in connection with the latter thought to the source of things, connecting it with the thing in its fulness. You have wine suggested in Paul's ministry. At Pentecost they had wine. It was then fresh from heaven, and it was energetic. Wine would suggest that. New wine would burst old bottles, the old could not contain the full energy of the new. The great Roman Empire, of its kind, wonderfully powerful though it was, could not have contained this. Nothing outside of the vessel which God had prepared could contain it or keep this wonderful power within bounds. It was new wine.

We are in the fishing region just now, I was in the wine region a few weeks ago. If you had been there, you would have got light as to this subject. Wine has to be kept in suitable vessels, but it does not deteriorate in the vessels. The older the better, but it must be kept in vessels capable of containing it. As I said, in speaking of the new wine, the Lord refers to Christianity in the fulness of it. When the Holy Spirit had come, Judaism was set aside, and all believers -- Jew and Gentile -- were bound together in one body according to Ephesians. There was a divine vessel formed -- the assembly according to Paul's ministry. That which he had built up was a vessel great enough to hold the new wine, and it did not burst. The wine and the bottles are both to be preserved; that is the divine thought.

Well now, at the present time it is a question whether we are great enough to take in Christianity in its entirety; it is a wonderful thing. Our apprehension of it, I fear, is extremely meagre. The Spirit pervading produces intelligence, affection, and service according to God, and also holy joy. Wine is a type of holy joy; it makes glad the heart of God and the heart of man; and it is preserved in the new bottle. How much are we up to this, dear brethren? I need not say we are extremely weak, and for that reason one would urge that we go back to the beginning and view the thing as it was in the light of both figures -- new wine and new bottles -- for if you see that, you will have a more just apprehension of the littleness of the present time; it is a day of small things, and one would be humbled by it.

I think it would tend to produce a longing to be more in keeping with that great vessel that holds the new wine and to walk in the light of it, seeking to be it in our measure, that is to say, to be expanded: as the word puts it, "Be ye also enlarged". 2 Corinthians 6:13. It is as we make more room for the Spirit that we are great

enough to contain the new wine in its original purity. If we are conscious of the new wine, and become proud of it, we lose the character of the bottle. The bottle and the wine are both to be preserved. The principle applies to every one of us, for we are all exposed to that danger. If I am made conscious of the energy of the Spirit, the joy of the Spirit, I only have it from God. As soon as I begin to get proud I lose the character of the bottle. The bottle and the wine are to be preserved together, so the Lord says, "No man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish. But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved. No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new; for he saith, The old is better". This passage suggests that you do not pass into the new in a moment; there has to be a distance between the parting with the old and the perfecting of the new. It refers to experience; man does not enter into it straightway. You will find out by experience the superiority of the new, and so you do not go back. The older a brother becomes in the enjoyment of the things of God, the more he abhors the old, and he is not likely to go back. He has tasted too much, and he is not likely to go back to the old. "No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new, for he saith, The old is better". You have got to acquire the taste for the new to prove how superior it is to the old.

I turn now to the epistle to the Colossians, which dwells on the new man. I have been dealing with vessels as figures -- new cruse, new bottles -- but now we come to the "new man", where we have intelligence. In Colossians 3 it says, "The new man which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him". Now we come to what is for God, for God had a man before Him at the very

outset. In this epistle the old man is put off, he is discarded. The old man is corrupt. We are born in sin and practised in sin, but here the old man is put off with his deeds. I want to enlarge a little about the new man; he is for God -- a testimony for God; he is new, new in the sense of being fresh, and he is marked by the renewal in knowledge after the image of Him that created him. Believers individually are not referred to as new men; the new man is one idea -- a collective thought. In order to be in it we need to be in unity. There is only one new man; it is a moral thought. The term, "the new man" is never applied to Christ. "The new man" is a creation, and Christ is not a creation, He is the Creator. It has developed in it all the moral features of Christ. It is developed in us, in the saints, and so it must be a new creation, for these features were not in the old. The old man is set aside; it is "put off" and the new is "put on". There is now as God looks down on us, that is in Christians, that which shone in His beloved Son in His life down here. We are like Him in knowledge, for the new man is "renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him". You can see that "the new man" is a mature thought; it is not an infantile thought, it is mature, for Colossians deals with maturity.

Ephesians also takes up the same subject, only the apostle carries it forward and says that he "is created in righteousness and true holiness". Ephesians 4:24. That is what the new man is. Colossians is the freshness of it as new. We all know that in dealing with created things how we prefer the new to the old; that is the way in which God deals. In the new man He has all the saints formed after Christ. He has something entirely new and fresh. If they are dwelling in unity there will be that delightful sense of freshness to God. An illustration of it, I think, was presented on the third day of the creation. The earth came up from the

sea, the dry land appeared. It had been submerged, but it came up from this submerged condition and then fertility followed. It came up from death and brought forth the green grass, the herbs, and the trees. The earth was not something bare, it was not rocks and mountains, there was fertility, and so it yielded that in which the eye of God had pleasure- there was the evidence of life. One would conjecture a little on the sense of newness. If one had been there, there would have been a delightful sense of newness. So God pronounces it 'Very good'. That which is new is a great idea for the saints at the present time. We are new in the way that is suggested in a leper's ear being anointed by blood and by oil, that is to say we are to take in divine thoughts by the Spirit, so the apostle says of the new man, "renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him". Then it goes on to say, "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew ... .. but Christ is all and in all". He is the Object for us, and He is in all. It is the collective idea. There is only one new man, and we have part in it in the measure in which we are in unity. Then we are exhorted to "Put on therefore as the elect of God ... bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, long-suffering", Colossians 3:12 etc. These are the traits of Christ developed in us collectively. They are the evidences of the freshness of life.

There is just one other reference I wish to make, that is to the new Jerusalem. There are great modern cities, but these will all be eclipsed in the age to come by the great city -- the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God. In relation to eternity -- to the new heavens and the new earth -- it is called the holy city, new Jerusalem. After the thousand years it is new, it is not old, it is holy, the new Jerusalem, and she comes down as a bride adorned for her husband. There is no decay, everything is new and fresh, and is in keeping with the holy scene -- the new heavens

and the new earth. We shall be that, dear brethren, and it is a wonderful thing to have before us. All these great things we have spoken of are new -- the new cruse, the new bottles, the new man and the new Jerusalem. The elements ushering in that grand result in the future are being acquired now, and are operative here.

I urge on the young to be occupied with what is new. The Lord will help you on that line; you will realise by practice the newness of all that was introduced at the beginning when Christianity was first brought in.

READING

Romans 7:22 - 25; Romans 8:1 - 4. 1 Corinthians 14:37; Leviticus 1:1,2; Deuteronomy 17:8 - 13.

J.T. I wanted to show, by the Lord's help, during this enquiry how Romans develops the priestly, believer, or as we may say, the spiritual feature; and that as it is thus developed, the believer is qualified to have part in the assembly in its relations Godward and manward; and I had particularly in view the relation of the priesthood to the law.

J.McL. Were you thinking that in Christianity all these things which we enjoy are open now to every believer?

J.T. That is what I was thinking, and that that feature -- the priestly feature -- begins as deliverance is known, indeed even before, because this passage in Romans 7 shows that the believer delights in the law of God even earlier than deliverance. His delight in it would increase, and chapter 8 shows how the righteous requirements of it are fulfilled in him now as walking after the Spirit; that is as he values the law of God, delights in it, and fulfils its righteous requirements, he becomes accustomed to law in its spiritual significance, because he sees that the law is spiritual. And as becoming accustomed to law, he is prepared to take up that principle as applying to the assembly; not that the law of Exodus applies directly to the assembly, but there is what corresponds in the commandment of the Lord as in 1 Corinthians. So the element of priesthood runs through all the types, showing that whether the assembly functions in relation to God, as in the offerings in Leviticus, or whether in discipline all would come under the hand of the priest.

A.P. Would the husband in the first part of the chapter answer to the priestly side?

J.T. Yes, but the element of law necessarily comes under the hand of the priest. The law that governed the offerings of the people as in the early part of Leviticus, was given to Aaron and his sons. The discipline of the assembly -- the public government of the assembly -- also comes under the priests, and when it is seen that every believer is a priest, then it would be clear that each believer should accept the obligations of priesthood. The offerings of God are regulated by a law, under the hand of the priest; there was the law of the burnt offering, the law of the meat offering, and so in regard of all the offerings. Then, too, if there be matters requiring judgment, the priest has his part in that, and there is to be no appeal from a decision rendered in that priestly manner.

H.B. Would the change of the priesthood necessitating a change of the law set that forth?

J.T. Yes; we, of course, are not speaking of law in the assembly as the law presented in Exodus, but of new principles that have been unfolded.

J.McL. Have you in mind the thought of administration?

J.T. Yes. One is struck with the occurrence of the word 'law' in these verses; the believer becomes accustomed to the principle, so that when he comes to have to do with the law of the assembly he is prepared for it.

Rem. "Legitimately subject to Christ?" 1 Corinthians 9:21.

J.T. Yes. And you will recognise that "the things that I write to you, that it is the Lord's commandment", 1 Corinthians 14:37 and as it is in the singular it refers to the whole epistle. It is one thought -- the Lord's commandment, and His commandment takes, as it were, His place in authority. He is absent from the scene but His commandment is to govern us, and the priests are particularly responsible, so that every one in Corinth would have to take the thing home to

himself and say, 'This is the Lord's commandment to me', and if it is, it must be enforced, and it is my responsibility to see that it is enforced. If I profess to be a Christian, to be spiritual, that is my obligation. It is for every one in the company, and the principle of law should not be foreign to any Christian, because he begins experimentally with this, that he delights in the law of God after the inward man. He looks at it as of value.

A.P. The Lord's commandment would be fulfilled in regard of the law of the house, I suppose?

J.T. The righteous requirement of the law of Exodus is fulfilled in those who walk after the Spirit, but the commandment of the Lord directly given to us in Corinthians is also to be fulfilled, so Romans prepares the believer for the assembly.

H.H. Are we to understand that the delighting in the law of God after the inward man is a priestly instinct?

J.T. Yes.

H.H. And chapter 8 would be a further thought we are delivered so as to carry it out, that is to fulfil the requirement.

D.G. Then are the priestly instincts there right from the beginning of the work of God in the soul?

J.T. Yes. The responsibility of the Lord's commandment must not be put upon the shoulders of others; it is the obligation of every one to enforce it.

J.McL. Every one working for the good of the whole, you mean?.

J.T. Yes, you take it up in relation to the whole. So Leviticus 1 is to the saint in his capacity as a responsible person in this world. Chapters 1 - 5 are words spoken to Moses to speak to the children of Israel in regard to their offerings. It is the word of God to us as having anything to bring to God in a spiritual way, but the sons of Aaron are there all the time, and they are essential to the thing, essential to

the offerer. The offerer can bring the offerings but the priest offers them. Then when we come to chapter 6 the law of the offerings is committed formally into the hands of Aaron and his sons, that is, they as priests are responsible. So that we have first the offerers addressed, and then the divine law committed to the priests. The priest is concerned as to what is due to God; he was called to that; "to minister unto me in the priest's office". Exodus 29:1. So offerings should be presented according to God; they should be presented in due order.

J.McL. "This is the law", Leviticus 6:14 would be chapter 6.

J.T. Yes. The word is to Aaron and his sons, not to the children of Israel, and all through this and the next chapter it is a question of what is committed to the priests. Thus I thought we might see how the element of priesthood is there from the outset. If the priest is true to the exercise, he begins that way, he delights in the law of God.

J.McL. Whom do Aaron and his sons set forth?

J.T. Christ and the saints in connection with the priestly service.

Ques. Would priesthood be there before the Spirit is received?

J.T. Yes, the element is there.

J.R. Do you think so?

J.T. Yes. "That which is born of the Spirit is spirit". John 3:6. "God is a Spirit". John 4:24. New birth involves that which is born is spirit and that is developed -- that is, instincts Godward. They may be feeble but they develop. In John 4 the Lord speaks to the woman of living water springing up in her. Notice that it is living water; that is, there is the element of cleansing, and then it says she left her waterpot and went her way into the city. She had become spiritual, she had come to see that her body was the waterpot the vessel in which there was living water, the element of cleansing being there. She left the literal for the

spiritual. She was beginning to be spiritual. Then look at Peter in chapter 6 confessing the Lord, "Thou art the holy one of God". John 6:69. That was development on spiritual lines -- he recognised the holy one of God.

H.H. Where the priestly element is, there is material for the Spirit to work upon?

J.T. Yes. So in chapter 8 you get deliverance and the law of the Spirit of life in Christ which has set him free. He is now a son of Aaron. It is the priestly element that is developed.

A.P. He only refers to himself there.

J.T. Yes, he wants to establish a principle. It may apply to you or to any believer. He could not say it definitely of the Romans, for he had not been there, so he puts it in this way that they might see the principle.

D.G. And take it up.

J.T. If it were true of Paul, it may be true of all; it is a question here of setting out the truth, not of the state of the Roman Christians.

H.H. Would you say that those who come under the hand of the priest in chapter 8 would become good material for the assembly?

J.T. Yes, that is the point, Romans and Corinthians go together. In Romans, I think, the standpoint is the mercy-seat, and believers are brought into correspondence with that so, saying that you "delight in the law of God after the inward man" means that you are in accord with the ark, of which the mercy-seat was the lid -- the Lord had the law in His heart.

H.B. Would you develop a little what you say in regard of being in accord with the mercy-seat?

J.T. Well, the mercy-seat was the lid of the ark, as I said, underneath it were the tables of the covenant, and the Lord Jesus coming into this world as man took that up; He came to do the will of God,

delighting to do it, and the formal expression of that will was the law. What was there had to be taken up; for the law was the testimony to the rights of God, and by it was the knowledge of sin. The Lord Jesus took it up and maintained it absolutely, and that underlies His death; so that the blood is on the mercy-seat and the believer is to be brought into accord with that, and he expresses it when he says I delight in the law of God after the inward man.

R.F. In John 14 the Lord says, "He that hath my commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me". John 14:21. Is that on the same line?

J.T. Yes. That is 1 Corinthians. There you come out as a priest. You must not expect to lead others to do it unless you do it yourself. This is a matter of the greatest importance, especially for young believers amongst us, as we often put things into the hands of a few in the assembly. That is not the divine thought. Every one is a priest, and so each one should take up the obligation of the assembly. Romans lays the basis in the soul, so that such a one becomes accustomed to law, and develops in the understanding of the epistle to the Corinthians, which is the law governing the assembly in its relations Godward and manward.

Rem. The woman is brought under new domination -- a new husband.

J.T. Yes. Her body is for the Lord; as in John 4 the woman leaves her waterpot, so the truth in Romans leads to presenting the body a living sacrifice.

J.McL. The woman did not know the import of what she was doing!

J.T. But it is put down for us by the Holy Spirit.

H.H. It is not only that we are free from the pressure of sin and death, but that we might be free for the Lord's service.

J.T. Yes, the Lord took up the law -- "thy law is within my heart"

-- and the Holy Spirit enables the believer to fulfil the righteous requirement of it. It must be taken up by the believer in this way; it cannot be ignored.

Rem. I thought that one got in a measure new covenant blessings in chapter 5, and the law that you delight in is in chapter 7

J.T. The love of God shed abroad in our hearts is the new covenant; but you must not pass over the old, that is, viewed in the spirit of it its newness of spirit: "that we should serve in newness of spirit". Romans 7:6.

D.G. Do you distinguish between delighting in and the power to carry it out?

J.T. Yes. But you do delight in the thing, that is, after the inward man. It is collateral with the new birth; it is 'spirit' and it is in virtue of that, that I delight in the law of God. It is the inward man. So priesthood applies to the youngest believer, if he is truly a believer; it is not something in the distance, but it is there, and as you receive the Spirit you are set up in it; that is in the law of it: in "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus". "God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit". Now, I think, that man has qualified to be a priest, for he is maintaining the law in the spirit of it in his conduct.

H.H. And he has power to fulfil it.

R.F. But in chapter 7 does not the believer learn to distinguish between what is natural and what is spiritual?

J.T. Quite. He sees now two principles, two laws working -- the law of his mind, and another law warring in opposition to that but he gets deliverance. I do urge the word 'law' here. Are you acquainted with the thought at the beginning of your spiritual history? There is today much lawlessness, but as

you are acquainted with 'law' you are brought into subjection. It is not only the Spirit of life but the law of it that brings liberation. I believe if Romans 7 were gone through more, the younger Christian would be more subject, and thus more prepared for the assembly, because I think when you delight in the law of God after the inward man you are qualified for your place as a board in the tabernacle, so to speak. You are fitted to take your place in relation to the assembly. There is no doubt that in years gone by Romans 7 was much more dwelt upon. I believe if it were more understood, there would be more subjection and we should fit in together better, because the element of subjection would be more there. The boards stood up, and the principle is that the believer stands up in righteousness, in subjection; and then there was a bar of gold binding them all together. What is of the Spirit binds us all together.

R.W. This man who delights in the law of God is a wretched man. You would not think that he would be fit for priestly service.

J.T. Not yet, but the element is there. The stone in the quarry has to be squared off.

Rem. He is not able to accomplish it!

J.T. But in the next chapter he gets deliverance. "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free". He has now come to it. Would you say that?

Rem. Yes. I say that, but he would not be happy in chapter 7.

J.T. No, that is so. We do not know joy until we know righteousness and get the Spirit. The process has to be gone through, so that I learn to distinguish between "I myself with the mind serve God's law; but with the flesh sin's law". That is the end of the seventh chapter.

Ques. Is it a spiritual mind?

J.T. So far. You get the renewed mind later.

The Holy Spirit is not brought in yet. It is what he has come to. In the next chapter you get deliverance.

J.R. How far can we delight in the law of God without having received the Spirit?

J.T. We cannot go far, but the element is there: "I delight in".

H.B. Is it not always the case that you get the thing itself before you get the light with regard to it?

J.T. The germ of it is there, but there is a process of exercise through which you come into the fulness of it after you get the Spirit.

R.F. That is what really lies at the basis of all true fellowship?

J.T. Yes. It is an element that implies subjection. Law is to get you under control, and it is necessary to begin with it, and as the principle is seen, it forms you. It is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which sets free.

Ques. Would our responsibility be that we allow the Spirit to have His way?

J.T. Yes. I think you will remember that in Numbers 21 the well is dug at the direction of the 'law-giver' that is to say, the element of law is carried over in relation to the Spirit. I have no doubt the word 'law' in the sense of authority is used more frequently in Romans that in any other book in the New Testament because it is a question of obedience. "Ye have obeyed from the heart". Romans 6:17. The believer moves in relation to the law, which cannot be neglected.

H.H. It is very interesting that in Deuteronomy 33 it says, "From his right hand went a fiery law for them", Deuteronomy 33:2 and yet it says, "Yea, he loved the people". Deuteronomy 33:3.

J.T. Yes, and the law in that chapter is considered the inheritance of Jacob. "Moses commanded us a law the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob". Deuteronomy 33:4 it is not against them, it is their inheritance.

H.B. What we sometimes sing, 'Free from the law, oh happy condition', etc

is only partially true?

J.T. Yes. The Lord Jesus took it up and put it in His heart, and the believer would take it up, too.

Rem. It is not the law as applied to men in the flesh?

J.T. Not at all. As to the law in its legal and literal application we are become dead to it by the body of Christ, so that we are to serve in newness of spirit.

J.R. The principle of obedience is implied in the principle of law?

J.T. Quite.

J.McL. Is the body of the believer in view in the laying down of these principles?

J.T. Yes. So we are enjoined to present our bodies a living sacrifice. You are available as having given yourself over to God, and that comes under the priest. Every sacrifice comes under the priest. Romans does not develop that, but the sacrifice is there and the priest takes it up and presents it to God. So it goes on to say, "We, being many, are one body in Christ" Romans 12:5 not yet Christ's body, because you do not get that in Romans but in Colossians; in Romans it is "one body in Christ"; we do not go beyond that. The boards are not only brought to light but set up.

J.McL. The idea of insubjection would be quite foreign to the principle of the body. We learn to be subject to one another.

J.T. Yes. So Romans underlies Corinthians.

A.P. The priestly side of the Old Testament would come out in chapter 12?

J.T. Yes. That is where you begin to offer. You may not have a bullock, but you have your own body. It is an 'intelligent' service, a priestly service.

Rem. In chapter 15 we have a wonderful priestly service of the apostle: "that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable". Romans 15:16.

J.T. Yes. That is what he was doing. In Romans 12 we do not go beyond our service as believers -- presenting our bodies a living sacrifice.

A.P. In chapter 8 we only touch life. It is "shall live".

J.T. Quite. "If ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live". Romans 8:13.

Ques. What is the difference between the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath set me free" and "ye shall live"?

J.T. I think "set free" in chapter 8 is what is contemplated in view of flesh, and the law acting on the law in his members which warred against the law of his mind. Deeds of the body are your own conduct. It is what your body is capable of. You live as you put these to death. As an unbeliever you are actuated by the natural emotions of your members, but that is given up. "Life in Christ Jesus" is governed by a principle that is true to itself.

Now I wanted to show how understanding priesthood in this way would bring every believer under obligation. You cannot say "they are doing this or that"; what responsibility there is belongs to all.

J.McL. Instead of complaining that things are not done this way or that way, you show the way.

J.T. It is a good thing to put people into power. People sometimes complain loudly of those in authority, but put them into power and they change their tune quickly. Take the thing up yourself and see what you can make of it. Nobody can consistently say 'No' because all are priests, as having the Spirit. So the word -- the law -- in Leviticus 6 applies to every such an one. It is to "Aaron and his sons". There you find that the altar is wholly in their custody, therefore the priest was to have a certain portion of the offerings for himself, so that he should be nourished. You will be well paid if you take up the responsibility!

A.P. So that all may be contributors in the assembly.

J.T. Yes, exactly, and priestly food is obtained in the acceptance of obligation there. Then in Leviticus, in the case of leprosy, the priest is to determine every thing related thereto, and in Deuteronomy the people are again charged to take heed in the plague of leprosy to all that the priests the Levites shall teach them. Every matter of controversy, too, was to be brought to the priests for judgment.

Rem. It is very easy to be occupied with evil in the assembly, and to suffer loss through it, but it is another thing to take it up in such wise as that there is gain by it.

J.T. I think that is most important; for all things taken up should involve gain to us.

H.B. With regard to the assembly, should it ever be legislative?

J.T. The priests had to carry out the law, not to make it. I do not think there is strictly any law-making. The mischief is that there has been legislation. I think, with regard to the priest, the point is that the law is handed over to him and it is perfect, and it is "at his mouth they seek the law". Malachi 2:7. The Lord says, "On these two commandments the whole law and the prophets hang", Matthew 22:40 showing the importance of divine commandments. It is for the priest to enforce the law, and so in Deuteronomy in the passage read the decisions were to be according to it. In verse 9 of chapter 17 it says, "And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days and enquire; and they shall show thee the sentence of judgment ... .. and the man that will do presumptuously and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the Lord thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die, and thou shall put away the evil from Israel".

The priest and the judge were there to carry it out. The judge's duty is to explain law and apply it. They shall hear law from the priest's mouth.

H.H. The principles are all laid down to us, but the question is how to apply them at any moment. That is where the priestly function comes in.

J.T. Yes. It is for them to act according to the law. A decision reached on those lines cannot be set aside. It stands. Here is a case in this chapter, and it is not to be dealt with by any group of persons, it is to be judged by the priests. Priesthood in Christianity includes all saints and the thing has to be put on their consciences. If it is dealt with according to this passage the decision stands, and should be bowed to by every saint on earth as the will of heaven.

Ques. Would Matthew 18 be that?

J.T. Yes.

Rem. If we were more in the gain individually of what is unfolded in Romans we would, when it was a question of the assembly consciences being stirred up, be more subject to the judgment arrived at.

J.T. If he were more in the good of Romans 7 the youngest believer in the assembly would bow. He knows law and he sees that law must prevail.

Ques. Is that the direct government of God?

J.T. God is governing directly through the assembly; indirect government would be outside and we must submit; but direct government is in the assembly.

A.P. Would not this passage in Deuteronomy that we have read help us to see the great importance of coming under law? It implies death to refuse it.

J.T. The saints, therefore, should become well versed in 1 Corinthians, particularly in regard of assembly matters.

Rem. If the law were known and we were subject to it, there would be no controversy at all.

J.G. If we all said the same thing, there would be no controversy.

J.T. The apostle directs then that those who are least esteemed in the assembly should be set to judge as to things of this life, meaning that the least esteemed in the assembly is a priest, which shows what a member of the assembly is.

READING

Judges 7:15 - 25: Judges 8:1 - 3.

J.T. One great feature with God is that of leadership. This chapter furnishes us with an example of a leader, and one who was not only in the position of a leader, but who was that, and for that reason is a model. He says, "Look on me, and do likewise" (verse 17).

W.A.S. Deborah had said in her song that "leaders led in Israel". Judges 5:2. Is it a principle that leadership is necessary?

J.T. It is a principle with God. The Lord is the great leader. He sets out in Himself the divine thought of leadership. A leader is one who, in a crisis or an occasion of difficulty will lead in a general way amongst the saints. The Lord, in becoming Man, necessarily takes up this position as leader; so we have in Luke that He is baptised and praying, that the heavens were opened, and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in the form of a dove -- in a holy form, and a voice from heaven said, "Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I have found my delight". Mark 1:11, Luke 3:22. Then He is led by the Spirit into the wilderness forty days, tempted of the devil. It is the Spirit's action; He was led by the Spirit, indicating that this Man entirely recognised the Spirit. In regard of His baptism, He says, "Thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness", not some, but all. Then we see, too, His dependence on God -- being baptised He was praying.

Rem. The Spirit takes the initiative.

J.T. Yes, He carried Him into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil, and having vanquished him on the ground of obedience, then it says "Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee". Luke 4:14. He

ministered, too in their synagogues, for we read that "He came to Nazareth where he was brought up; and he entered, according to his custom, into the synagogue". Luke 4:16. He had established a custom, a way, and He takes the Scriptures as they are handed to Him and reads to those in the synagogue the divine passage that governed the then position. He found the place where it was written, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach glad tidings to the poor, he has sent me to preach to captives deliverance, and to the blind sight", Luke 4:18 and so forth; and then He sits down and is an object of interest to all. "The eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed upon him. And he began to say to them, To-day this scripture is fulfilled in your ears", Luke 4:20,21 and they wondered at the gracious words that proceeded out of His mouth. So that you have a divine leader given in that Man. In Luke, the Spirit dwells upon that because He intended it to be a model for us.

W.A.S. Are you suggesting that these features should be found in every true believer?

J.T. Well, that is what I was thinking. The Lord sets Himself before us as a leader. He is an example for us, and I think Gideon is a type of this in a striking way, because the Old Testament corresponds with what we get in the New. He says here, "Look on me, and do likewise; ... it shall be that, as I do, so shall ye do". Gideon had been wonderfully furnished and educated by God in order that he should come to this. He was to be a model for those who were with him. An angel of the Lord came and sat down under the oak at Ophrah; that is, he came to a certain locality and sat down under the oak tree, and took account of what was there; and what was needed was in it, for there was a man there whom God could take up and use as a leader of His people.

A.P. Would that be leaders set locally?

J.T. Well, that is the divine way. The leader is

one who exemplifies the thing that is to be set out, it is not merely that he is appointed to lead. Leading, in God's account, is that you are the thing that is being set out, and in a world of evil and satanic influence that means that one has to suffer. A leader has to suffer. It is a position of suffering if he is to go before.

A.P. You would be more open to the attack of the enemy.

J.T. The Lord Jesus is the Leader, and following Him you are sure to suffer. So that in that passage in Luke, when He began to unfold the truth to them they were filled with rage and Cast Him forth out of the city that they might throw Him down the precipice. If you speak gracious words, even unconverted people will listen to you and speak well of you perhaps, but when you speak the truth, the whole truth, to them, then they change their attitude; you must suffer. Unless God is working in them you will get opposition from them.

F.J.F. "Remember them ... . who have spoken unto you the word of God". Hebrews 13:7. That would include leadership?

J.T. Yes, indeed; "whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation". Hebrews 13:7. I was thinking of Philip, how it is put in the same way as with the Lord. The Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip.

R.S. Paul would be an example of that -- "Be ye followers of me". 1 Corinthians 4:16, 1 Corinthians 11:1.

Rem. Would a secret training be necessary for that?

J.T. That would come in. The angel of the Lord came to Ophrah and sat under the oak, which meant that he would take account of all that was there. Whatever locality may be in question, when the Angel of the Lord comes He takes account of what is there. So in Revelation 2 the Lord moves in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks. The angel

sat down under the oak, and then it says, "Gideon threshed wheat in the winepress to secure it from the Midianites". Judges 6:11. There was a man, working all by himself to defeat the enemy. He was trying to defeat what the enemy was doing. The enemy was destroying the food, eating up everything, leaving no sustenance whatever; everything was taken away by them, and Gideon was operating to defeat that. The angel noted that. Whatever you see the enemy doing you should aim at defeating it -- whatever he is doing. It is a great thing to see what he is doing; as Paul says, "We are not ignorant of his thoughts". 2 Corinthians 2:11. When you know what he is about, then your exercise is to know what to do to check it. So Gideon knew what the Midianites were after. He knew that they would take away the food, and he was threshing wheat to hide it from the Midianites. They would not get that any way. They would be defeated in their purpose, and the angel of the Lord took account of that. Here was one man operating against the enemy and with God. So if the Lord comes to a locality now in that way, He takes account of what is going on -- what every brother and sister is doing, whether one's prayers, one's general walk and ways are defeating the enemy, or whether one is affording him material. It is either one thing or the other.

F.J.F. The Lord knew what the enemy's aim was with regard to Peter, and what he desired to do.

J.T. Yes; he desired to sift him as wheat, but the Lord says, "I have prayed for thee". Luke 22:32. He was defeating the enemy. He was defeating the enemy in what he was aiming at. "The prince of this world cometh", John 14:30 it says. The Lord knew the movements of Satan.

F.J.F. The Midianites were closely related to the Israelites, were they not?

J.T. Yes, there was a relation between them; Midian, it appears, sprang from Abraham.

Ques. Is this chapter (Judges 6), Gideon's private history with the Lord?

J.T. I think it is. The main idea is his service. The angel is most interested in him. It says, "The Angel of Jehovah appeared to him". Judges 6:12. When you get an appearing there is something shown that impresses you; something of the Lord that impresses you. An appearing is something that you have which others have not. You have the advantage. That is what marks every man whom God uses specially. He has something from God that is for himself.

A.P. Would that be the Spirit taking the initiative?

J.T. Well, it is the Lord Jesus whom the Angel represents. I think if one gets an appearing it is the Lord. A leader has received something for himself. In speaking of an appearing, I believe that if the Lord appears to you, you get something distinctive, you get something that belongs to yourself, and which distinguishes you. It is pointed out in 1 Corinthians 15 that the Lord appeared to Cephas; that would mean something distinctive for Peter. It would be for himself. Then He appeared to the twelve, that is in relation to administration, then He appeared to about five hundred brethren at once; that appearance would be for all-something that would impress the brethren. If you had been present there you would have been impressed, you would have had the sense that you would never lose the brethren. Five hundred of them! Many, but they would all be affected. You would have been impressed with what the Lord thought of them -- how valuable they were to Him. Then He appeared to James; that again would be an individual matter, something distinctive for James; then to all the apostles; that would be in relation to authority -- to impress them in relation to His authority Last of all He appeared to Paul. We all know. Paul had something very

distinctive, but we may be sure that each of the others had something also. Here he appeared to Gideon; there would be some distinct impression given to him that would be his own entirely and which would distinguish him afterwards. But then in the appearing, the Angel says to him "Jehovah is with thee, thou mighty man of valour". Judges 6:12. All the way down this chapter you have this private education of Gideon, so that he may be fit to lead. Then Gideon said, "Depart not hence ... until I come unto thee and bring forth my present" Judges 6:18; that is another thing. It is a very beautiful touch, for Jehovah awaits for him to bring it out: "I will tarry until thou come again". Judges 6:18. It was something he had himself. He took some unleavened cakes and prepared a kid and brought them out. He had prepared these cakes. A leader, as we have said, is one who is aiming at defeating the enemy, but Gideon has something that he has himself, something of his own that he can present to God; so he brings it out and presents it, the Angel of God telling him what to do. He does not tell him what to bring, he left that to himself, but he tells him how to present it. Man is accepted according to what he has, not according to what he has not. Then the angel leaves him, and he thinks he is going to die because he has seen an angel. But it is not so, indeed it is the very opposite; he is going to live, and so he builds an altar to Jehovah and called it Jehovah-shalom, that is Jehovah of peace; and he is going to be a man of peace. He knows God in that character. One great principle of the assembly is peace: the Lord speaks of a son of peace. David said: "I am for peace; but when I speak, they are for war", Psalm 120:7 but he keeps to his own line. He is for peace. Well, Gideon sets up his own altar; one's own personal altar is what marks one off as having relations with God publicly. "Great is the mystery of godliness; God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory". 1 Timothy 3:16.

That is God's idea of one's altar; "the mystery of piety is great". 1 Timothy 3:16. It is God revealed. You are in public relation with God. God is not ashamed of you. How could one speak about God save as one knows Him? Gideon knew Him! Paul knew Him! "My God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus". Philippians 4:19. He knew God, and that is his altar. Now the next thing is that Gideon is told to go and take his father's bullock, the second one of seven years old, and throw down the altar of Baal. Now he is going to be tested as to how much moral influence he has, and so he is to take his father's bullock, but the result showed that he had weight with his father, for his father Joash made no complaint. He had moral weight with him. What he does commends itself to others; he carries others with him. It was a serious thing he had done -- to throw down his father's altar, because he was really interfering with his father's rights. But that has to be done. You have to do violence to natural things -- to natural rights; so that now the question is whether you have got moral power to carry others with you in what you are doing. The secret of power was that God was with Gideon. "Take the young bullock, which thy father hath, even the second bullock of seven years old, and throw down the altar of Baal that thy father hath, and cut down the Asherah that is by it, and build an altar to Jehovah thy God upon the top of this strong place, in the ordered manner, and take the second bullock and offer up a burnt offering with the wood of the Asherah that thou shalt cut down". Judges 6:25,26. The bullock belonged to his father Joash, but even though it did he had to leave that. It says, "Cut down the Asherah that is by it and build an altar to Jehovah thy God and offer up the second bullock". Judges 6:25. It was a

serious undertaking to interfere with his father's rights, but it was essential if he was going to be a leader.

A.P. You suggest that there would be no moral power apart from this line of action.

J.T. Well, one has to get right in one's own family first. It was a matter of locality, and of relationships in which Gideon stood; and it is them where one has to bear testimony; the testimony has to go out from there. If God is with you there will be moral power. Gideon was acting under divine direction and God was with him, so the altar was thrown down. Then it says the men of the city said to Joash, "Bring out thy son that he may die, because he has broken down the altar of Baal, and because he has cut down the Asherah that was by it". And Joash said unto them, "Will ye plead for Baal? Will ye save him? He that will plead for him let him be put to death while it is yet morning; if he be a god let him plead for himself", Judges 6:30,31. So that you see Gideon had his father with him now. One wants to be sure of God being with one, for, if so, you are sure to carry with you all those with whom God has worked; you will carry them all with you. The bullock belonged to Joash, the altar belonged to Joash, the whole place belonged to Joash, but God was with his son. Gideon was interfering with the natural rights of his father, but instead of his father's resentment he has his father's support. You may say, 'What am I to do, they are all against me?' Well, this is what to do, see to it that God is with you. If God is working with them they will not be against you, if God is with you opposition must give way.

F.J.F. What you do will commend itself. You will lead others.

J.T. We would say this is hardly the line Gideon would have followed naturally. He would have felt it unrighteous to take his father's bullock, but if it is

a question of God we must lay aside all natural feelings. What you find is that the father is carried with him.

W.A.S. Would you say he had power not only with God, but with man?

J.T. Well, that it what comes out.

F.J.F. He had to use the light first of all in his own household.

J.T. Yes, he did, and it brings out the moral power that is developed in Gideon; he could carry his father with him, in spite of his father's rights being interfered with. We must not be afraid to trample on natural things, if they stand in the way of the will of God, because if they do they are being used by the devil against God. Natural relationships and all these things must be trampled upon, if they stand in the way of the will of God. If we are for God we shall carry others.

W.A. Would you say the situation has a moral bearing? The power of Gideon really relieved the situation.

J.T. Such a man was needed. I think that Gideon may be taken to represent the full idea of judgeship. He is the only one who has such power, so in this way he is a leader. "Look on me and do likewise", he says, "it shall be that, as I do, so shall ye do". And then his brethren were like him; even the king of Midian said, "As thou art so were they" Judges 8:18; so that he stands out as a type of Christ in a striking manner. The brethren were all like him, "each one resembled the sons of a king". Judges 8:18. The truth of the matter is that he had a good mother. Although she is not mentioned in this chapter at all she is mentioned in chapter 8. Gideon speaks of his brethren as "the sons of my mother". Judges 8:19. The secret lay in that he had a good mother.

J.F.J. Divine rights must be upheld at all costs.

J.T. That was the first line of attack; idolatry

was in the father's house, and that stood in the way of the Will of God. Satan had a footing there.

A.P. You said he must have had a good mother. Would you give that a moral application?

J.T. Yes. I think it would refer to a brother -- to any one brought up in the true light of the assembly.

A.P. He apparently did not get any moral help from his father, he being an idolater.

J.T. The help evidently came from the mother. The angel represents God, but the history of Gideon must have lain in the training of his mother, because the others were like him, and were as the sons of a king. He identified himself with them, because he says, "Sons of my mother". Judges 8:19. They had the same training. Hence the importance of young believers coming under the influence of the assembly in their young days; they get formed by it. They learn how to be subject. They thus become like Christ.

R.S. The wheat being threshed in the winepress would involve suffering in securing food for the people of God, would it not?

J.T. Yes, quite -- the winepress suggests that.

W.A.S. Would you say something about the second bullock?

J.T. That would remind Gideon that the Lord had passed by somebody else in order to take him up. It is not on the line of nature; it is on the line of sovereignty. And the fact that it was a bullock of seven years showed that Gideon was not a novice, he was to be a mature man. A bullock seven years old is not a calf. So that we need to be mature in the service of God for leadership.

J.F. He would be on the priestly line then in offering the bullock.

J.T. Well, I think he would be developed. He would be matured in the service of God; the thought would be the apprehension of Christ the full idea, the divine idea of manhood. The bullock would be a

large offering, and one seven years old is not only large but a developed one; it is mature.

W.A.S. Gideon had a history with God before this.

J.T. I am sure that is so. God took account of what was there. "Thou mighty man of valour". Judges 6:12. In the seventh chapter you see Gideon is in accord with his offering. He made sure of victory first, and then he says, "Look on me".

Rem. He was not distressed because he had to be reduced in numbers.

J.T. He was equal to it. What comes out is that he has faith in God. He took God at His word. God may see fit to reduce us outwardly, but we must have confidence in Him. The point was victory. Gideon becomes a remarkable type of Christ as leader. So the earthen pitcher is broken; the pitcher broken signifies the acceptance of the death of Christ, and that is what we all have to come to. If we are leaders according to God, the pitcher has to be broken. We give up all thought of holding ourselves together as after the flesh. The pitcher must be broken. "We have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us". 2 Corinthians 4:7. The pitcher must be broken at the fountain; we must accept death.

Ques. Would Philippians 2 come in here?

J.T. I think 2 Corinthians 4 has direct reference to this. The sounding of the trumpets preceded the breaking of the pitchers, but the latter is when one comes to accept death. Paul says, "We had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead". 2 Corinthians 1:9. If one is to be prepared for the breaking of the vessel, which is the last thing one will do on the line of nature, you have to be on the line of faith; it is only thus that you are prepared for it, for Jesus has led that way. "Ye have not yet", the apostle says to the Hebrews, "resisted unto blood, striving against sin" Hebrews 12:4;

others had done it, the Lord had done it. He was the author and finisher of faith, and endured the cross, despising the shame; He did not despise the cross as the judgment of God. He despised the shame attached to it; the cross had to be endured. That is the idea, I think, in the breaking of the pitcher. You come to the last extremity before we have the sentence of death in ourselves, to trust in God who raiseth the dead.

F.J.F. Men have laid down their necks for the name of the Lord Jesus.

J.T. Yes, and the primary thought here is that Israel has to be delivered from the scourge, and thus Gideon is undertaking all this for the brethren -- for Israel.

A.P. Whenever Gideon saw the least movement of the enemy he prepared. He did not wait until they actually burst upon him.

J.T. Gideon asks for signs and God gives them to him. He directs him to go down into the camp of the Midianites and he hears a dream being told. A cake of barley bread tumbled into the host of Midian, smites it and lays it all on the ground. It was Christ; barley bread is Christ apprehended in the exercise of the soul. It was a cake of barley bread, not a sheaf. It is Christ apprehended as going through the fire. That is the cake.

A.P. It is not corn either, it is barley.

J.T. Yes, it is barley, it is Christ as the first-fruits. It says much for Gideon; he had an apprehension of Christ.

F.J.F. Would it be the early apprehension of Christ? Barley harvest came before the wheat harvest.

J.T. I think it is the apprehension of Him as the first-fruits. He is first. The first-born from among the dead; the first-born of all creation too; Colossians 1:15,18.

Rem. I was thinking of Naomi and Ruth; they came back at the beginning of the barley harvest and attended right through the wheat harvest.

J.T. The barley sheaf is Christ as the first-fruits. The harvest had to be cut down and then they had to bring a wave-offering and present it before Jehovah. Barley is the first-fruits. It is Christ the first-fruits. It is a question of my apprehension of Him, but then what follows, and what is set forth in the barley cake, is that you have to pass through the fire. In Paul's epistles Christ is presented in this way.

Rem. Would the effect of that be the broken pitchers?

J.T. Well, I think the effect of that is that you break the pitcher, which would refer to yourself. The apostle Paul says, "We have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God and not of us". 2 Corinthians 4:7. Then he speaks about "Always bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus, that the life also of Jesus may be manifested in our body". 2 Corinthians 4:10. There would be a correspondence, I apprehend, in Paul's body. If you had seen Paul's body you would have seen a correspondence in it with the death of Christ, so that the life of Jesus would be seen there. So the thing is, "As I do, so shall ye do". "Look on me, and do likewise". Now what have we seen the Lord do? If I read the gospels aright, I see what He has done. It is a question of what I have seen Him do. You have to take the whole history to see what He has done. If He has laid down His life for us, we should lay down our lives for the brethren. That is what He has done. Have you seen what He has done? "Look on me, and do likewise". "Looking stedfastly on Jesus" Hebrews 12:2 (that is the way it should read) not 'unto Jesus', but "on" Jesus. He is the model for us. He is the author and finisher of faith, that is "the leader and completer". Hebrews 12:2. The word 'on' signifies the truth of

the thing. You do not lift your eyes from Him, you look stedfastly. "What you see me do", you are to "do likewise". He has laid down His life for the brethren, so we should all lay down our lives for the brethren; we have to go that length for them, if we are to be leaders. Gideon had his brethren before him. The point is the value of the brethren.

F.J.F. But have we any status, anything to give up?

J.T. Well, your life is something, your body is something. You can lay down your life for them.

Ques. What do you think it means by the cake tumbling into the host of Midian?

J.T. Well, I think it means that God does not go according to human methods. It was according to the will of God that the Lord should gain such a victory by dying. One is very impressed with the place that the brethren had with Gideon. So when the men of Ephraim said to Gideon, Why did you do this? Why did you not call us? we are sons of Joseph, we should be leaders. They spoke sharply to him, they spoke irritatingly to him, but he said to them, "What have I done now in comparison of you?" He yielded to them. He was right to come down. It was a question of the brethren. "What have I done in comparison of you? Is not the gleaning of the grapes of Ephraim better than the vintage of Abi-ezer?" He could Say that. Allow all the claims you can, if they are right and true. Then he said, "God hath delivered into your hands the princes of Midian, Oreb, and Zeeb, and what was I able to do in comparison of you? Then their anger was abated toward him when he had said that". Now he has got the Ephraimites on his side.

Ques. Is that a part of laying down the life?

J.T. Well, it is in keeping with it. He is ready to give up his reputation -- whatever he had. He was a man of peace.

Rem. He had the spirit of Jesus Christ. He was not one of those who wanted the chief place in the meeting.

J.T. There are apostles, prophets, and teachers. It is God who "hath set certain in the assembly" 1 Corinthians 12:28. You can be restful, if God has set you in the assembly; you are set there, and if you have a gift, God has given it to you. You can afford to be little, therefore you can admit the claims of others, refusing to assert your own.

F.J.F. It will not take anything away from what we ourselves have.

J.T. The second bullock really means that; God is sovereign; He has set certain in the assembly. He does it according to His own will, according to His own wisdom, and it cannot be set aside; what is there, is there.

Rem. Why is Gideon's name changed?

J.T. I think it would remind us of the notable event of his casting down the altar of Baal; it is mentioned again in the seventh chapter: "Then Jerubbaal, who is Gideon". Judges 7:1.

F.M. Is that why you called attention to the victory in his own house, in his father's house?

J.T. I think that name would always be a reminder of that great victory in his father's house.

Rem. Jacob got a new name. So did Paul.

J.T. They did. Gideon is an excellent example for us in what follows. The men of Israel, his brethren, desired to make him king, but he refused to be an official leader. He refused that. He did not want to be anything except what God had made him. The men of Israel said, "Rule over us", Judges 8:22 and his dynasty is guaranteed for three generations -- a very tempting offer, but he says, "I will not rule over you, neither shall my son rule over you; Jehovah shall rule over you". Judges 8:23. He is in keeping with the position, for Jehovah governed the position. "He shall rule over you".

He says it is not a time to reign. "Neither be ye called masters, for one is your master, even Christ", Matthew 23:10 and "all ye are brethren". Matthew 23:8. Nobody should seek to be king.

F.M. In the next chapter we have a man wanting to be king. The bramble is the only offer, but a bramble is useless.

R.S. What God gives one He will be sure to support.

J.T. It is a question of the will of God. "That by me the preaching might be fully known". 2 Timothy 4:17. God took up Paul, and he must preach; others sought to displace him. The Lord will not pass by a brother if he is true.

Rem. What would the capture of Zebah and Zalmunna -- the two kings of Midian -- mean?

J.T. I suppose it would indicate the complete overthrow of the enemy. Satan is destroyed. Christ has annulled him that had the power of death, that is the devil, not only the power of demons. The Lord says, "I beheld Satan, as lightning fall from heaven". Luke 10:18. Thus the head of the whole system goes down. It is well to see the completeness of the overthrow of Satan, for in the light of that we are really fighting a defeated foe. I think it is helpful, too, to see that as Gideon had gained the victory, he maintains peace. The order he set up was according to the light governing the period: "Jehovah shall rule over you". Judges 8:23. A true leader will always maintain the divine principles intended to govern any given time.

NEWNESS OF SPIRIT

Romans 6:4; Romans 7:6; Romans 12:2; Ephesians 4:23,24

I have in mind to speak about the element of newness. If Christianity as introduced into this world, is marked by anything it is by newness, and it occurred to me that the epistle to the Romans serves to unfold how this element comes about, and develops in the believer from the very beginning of his spiritual history. Other features run parallel in this epistle such as holiness, but I desire to speak about newness -- first, newness of life, then newness of spirit, and then newness in the renewal of the mind.

One is reminded of the Old Testament facts, ever available in ministry to amplify in detail what is presented doctrinally in the New Testament, and so as early as the first chapter of the Bible we have this feature of newness of life. On the third day life appeared -- that is vegetable life. On the fifth day animal life appeared, but on the third day we have what I think may be regarded as corresponding with this sixth chapter of Romans. The earth emerged on that day from the waters of death. How long it had lain there is not disclosed, but the earth, the dry land, appeared on that day. It was for the moment bare, but presently there was life. It was to bring forth; life was in the thing, so it yielded the grass, the herb, and the tree. You can understand what freshness there was. There was not only life as there is today, but life in newness, and that is what God intends spiritually in us as Christians -- that there should be this newness, not only that we should be alive but that there should be newness. So we read "That like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father", so we as "buried with him by baptism into death" should emerge from the waters of death

that we might walk in newness of life. You can understand, as I said, how delightfully fresh everything was on that fair day of creation. True enough, men were not there to enjoy it, but God was there, and primarily everything is for God: "All things were created by him and for him" Colossians 1:16 and "For thy pleasure", referring to the very creation itself, it says "they are and were created", Revelation 4:11. So that God had freshness on that day; and it was good. It must have been delightfully fresh as the earth, emerging from its long submerged condition in the waters of death began to yield. The earth brought forth grass, the surface was covered with it, and every blade of it was known to God. The earth thus yielded grass, for God had given the earth the element of life. God gives it a body, we are told; even today every farmer knows that; as he puts his seed into the ground, what comes up is not that seed, but the body which God pleases to give it. God is operating with the very seed, and He gives it a body as it pleases Him. And so the earth yielded its grass, its herbs, and its trees, and all in perfect freshness. It was indeed a newness of life. It was the divine thought that if the earth were brought out of the waters of death there should be something for God, and so there was the evidence of life, and life indeed, dear brethren, to which the Lord likens the product of His own death, for the vegetable figure is used, wonderful to say, in regard of His own blessed body. "Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die it abideth alone, but if it die it bringeth forth much fruit". John 12:24. The "much fruit" as it comes up is marked by newness in every item of it; the freshness of that life, that life that shone here in Himself alone, is developed in all the much fruit. And so, as I said, on that third day there was under the eye of God, who knew everything from the beginning to the end, what should ultimately spring up for His pleasure

as the product of the death of His Son -- the death of Christ.

And again, as the earth was once more submerged at the flood, we can understand what freshness there was as Noah and his sons and those creatures with him in the ark came forth. What freshness there was in the cleansed earth, cleansed of its pollution, when a new world began and it was blessed of God! There was the burnt-offering, the sweet savour in which God rested. It was new indeed. There had been no savour of rest spoken of before, indeed it is in the offering of Noah that you have it, and this order of things, God says, will remain. "While the earth remaineth, seed-time and harvest" -- the same idea -- "seed-time and harvest, ... shall not cease". Genesis 8:22.

Again, as Israel in crossing the Red Sea emerged from the waters of death, you have the same thing. "I remember thee", He says, "the kindness of thy youth, the love of thine espousals, when thou wentest after me in the Wilderness". Jeremiah 2:2. He does not refer to what they were in Egypt, but to what they were as emerging from the waters of death. "I remember for thee". Doubtless they had forgotten, as many of us do as we grow old. We lose the sense of newness of life; we settle down in external things without the germ of life operating, just like Ephraim; grey hairs were here and there upon him, and he did not know it. That is not newness of life; it is scarcely life at all. Grey hairs would denote death and decay. God would have life.

So in the book of Hosea He says, "When Israel was a child, then I loved him" Hosea 11:1; that is when there was freshness -- the freshness in which they sang on the banks of the Red Sea. How delightful that song was to God! It was the song of children, as it were, in the freshness of their enjoyment of the deliverance that had come to them from Jehovah. "When Israel was a child, then I loved him" Hosea 11:1; but he had,

grown old; grey hairs had appeared. Ephraim was joined to his idols in his old age, and so God reverts to the beginning when things were fresh. It was when Israel was a child that He loved him. So in the Old Testament we have these great principles, which are set out in Romans, illustrated and set before us -- that freshness of life that God looks for in us as having been baptised. "So many of us as were baptised into Jesus Christ were baptised into his death". Romans 6:3. For that is the point. It is life out of death: "That like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life". You see how great a thing is connected with your every-day walk -- the resurrection of Christ by the glory of the Father -- an expression, I think, found only here. See how great a thing is connected with the walk of the believer -- the very earliest movements of the believer in this world as baptised! The Son of God was in death in these very waters. He went down into death; the waters went over His soul. "All thy waves and thy billows are gone over me". Psalm 42:7. It was death in its reality. The waters indeed were frozen according to the figure in Job: "The breadth of the waters is straitened", Job 37:10. How real was His death, and He was taken out of that by the glory of the Father! That means that the Father's affections were involved in taking His Son out of that state. He took Him out of it, and the answer to that here is that the believer, as baptised, is walking in newness of life. It is not a question here exactly of eternal life, of the purpose of God, but of a new thing seen in me here in this world where I have been; in the very spot where I served sin, now I am marked by newness of life. I am living, but all the features of my life are new. It is not a question of what they are like as related to a pattern, but what is there is new. I am different. I am different. There is freshness about me; there

is an evidence of vitality I am not what I used to be. My conduct as a husband is different; my conduct as a wife is different; my conduct as a child is different; my conduct as a master, as a servant, as a neighbour, is different. There is a new element altogether in me, and that works out in all my relations, for it is a question in Romans of what I am where I used to be, what I am as a Christian where I used to be as an unbeliever -- that is the point. So things are new. Where there were corruption, rebellion, and lawlessness, there is now in subjection the preservation of what is right, true, and good. There is subjection to God, there is consideration for others, there is care for others, I have lost my selfishness: in a word, I am different. The element of life is operative; I am come out of death, and God delights in that. It is new. It is such a life as corresponds, in the principle of it, with what marked the Lord Jesus under the eye of God in this world.

Now, I press this, because many of us retain the old ways and habits. Whilst professing faith in Christ and accepting baptism, there is not that freshness, and even if we begin with it, we soon begin to develop grey hairs -- marks of decay -- instead of retaining the vigour of life. The Lord is described as having his hair black as a raven -- there is the energy of life. I retain that; not only do I begin with it, but I retain it. The divine idea is that things are new, are fresh in me, as we see in the heavenly city; she is as fresh and new at the end of the thousand years as she was at the beginning -- newness of life. The next thing in this epistle is newness of spirit. Chapter 6 has its bearing on me in every relation. It refers to me as in my body where I used to be; there is a complete change in me, and it is expressed in my body. Hence the emphasis is laid on our members in chapter 6. But now in chapter 7 it is a question of serving, and when we come to service

it is priestly. There was serving in the oldness of the letter in Judaism, and now I believe that the profession around us has returned to it also, for there is but a semblance of response to God in His commandments. The Scriptures are appointed to be read in churches. Thank God for that! That is what is put in the Authorised Version. One does not deprecate that, for if it is appointed to be read in churches, the reading of it will possibly help someone. Possibly most of us got light in that way, so we need not deprecate the appointment to be read in churches. But while there is the evidence of the outward recognition of God in the Bible being read in these systems, and while they are accustomed to the semblance of the Lord's supper and baptism, and other things, yet alongside of these you have what belongs to the old dispensation. They have, for instance, the idea of the house of God as a material building. Now all these, beloved, are the oldness of the letter, and not only is the letter old, but it kills. None of these things conduce to life. If God quickens, it is in spite of them. So He works as He did in Israel. God is God and He does work. Many of us, doubtless, got light in these relations, but nevertheless the principle of the whole thing, to say the least, is the letter. One might say much more than that, but what I have spoken of is only to illustrate what the oldness of the letter means. Now chapter 7 is that I am to serve in newness of spirit; in other words, Christianity is wholly new as a system of service, as that in which life here is expressed publicly -- it is a new kind of life. A man is wholly changed, he is different in all his relations. His very countenance is altered, and that is to be continued. He is to serve God, and the point in chapter 7 is that the service is to be new in spirit, and it is this which makes those who seek to serve God in this newness of spirit an object of ridicule by the religious people in this world. We have to

expect that. If you pursue this newness of spirit in your service to God, you are sure to be ridiculed; it is not in agreement with what is accepted religiously in this world. The world is an old affair, a very old affair. Its religion began with Cain; that is where it began. It began with Cain, was elaborated then with music, and all sorts of things; this bespeaks the oldness of the thing. There is nothing new in an organ in a church; it is as old as Cain. You say, David used these things. Yes, he did; but they were types; but if you use them because David used them, you are using them in the oldness of the letter, and the letter kills. These things kill men spiritually; there is nothing new in them. There is nothing new in a material building being called a church or the house of God; there is nothing new in a choir or a precentor; these things are old; they belong to the Cain system. The temple built by Solomon was a magnificent structure; there has never been a religious structure like it, but to assume to have it today is the "oldness of the letter". God will not put up with these old things; they are not suitable to Him, for He is the living God. God is a Spirit, and has to be worshipped in spirit and in truth. So Romans teaches us that we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. You may say, We have not any of these old things; but what about newness of spirit? We might become dry bones with right externals. The spirit is the inner thing, and this newness of spirit is to pervade every meeting of the saints. "I will sing with the spirit", it says, "and I will sing with the understanding also". 1 Corinthians 14:15. There must be the two things. The understanding governs you in what is according to God; it is specially the priestly side; the spirit thus viewed is also priestly; it is a very essential thing. I may, have intelligence but I must have the spirit also. The point is newness. The spirit in which you serve

is different from what belonged to the Old Testament system and different from all imitations of it. All religious systems characterised by what is visible are in principle the same as Judaism, but what is here is that in your service the spirit is to be different from everything that claims to be the service of God. There is newness of spirit in it.

Now it is most important for young believers to take account of that. It may be said, Romans is an elementary epistle, but it lays the basis of everything in your soul; so that, if you take part in the assembly, and you know Romans, you will do it in a new way, you will serve in newness of spirit. And thus it is that things are kept fresh and new always in our meetings. If things are new and fresh in my everyday circumstances as in chapter 6, so in chapter 7 in the assembly, however little part I take, it is in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Now I come to chapter 12, which speaks about the mind. We are now arrived at the exhortations based on the doctrines of this epistle, hence a measure of advance. So the apostle brings in the idea of transformation. "Be not conformed to this world; but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind". I believe many, if not most young believers, are hindered by the books they read. They are obliged to read books at school for educational purposes, and they come to like them. They contain lies, but they have to read them, and when the obligation ceases the liking remains; the taste remains. You have been drinking the old wine, and as you taste the new you straightway say, 'The old is better'. You may say I have enjoyed the morning meeting, and I have been to the reading, and I liked it, but you go back to reading your novel in your bedroom, it may be. You enjoy the old. "No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new; for he saith, The old is better". Luke 5:39. And so in that way young people are

hindered because of their minds. They are enjoying mentally those wretched things that ungodly men (some of them of the worst repute) have written. It is not for me to traduce those notable men in history but take any of them that you please, what kind of men were they? And take the things generally that they wrote! Where is Your mind? It is not that you are not a believer. You have confessed the Lord, but your mind is not renewed, you are not different from your companions. It is possible that you go to the picture-shows, or even to the theatre, so that your mind is in the same channel as the ungodly. You are conformed to this world, and so the exhortation is, "Be not conformed to this world; but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind"; that, is to say, the element of newness is to come into the mind, so that instead of imbibing those filthy things you begin to appreciate the things of God, the holy Scriptures. The Bible becomes attractive, and the ministry of the Spirit becomes attractive, and you begin to acquire a spiritual taste. "As new-born babes, desire earnestly the pure mental milk of the word, that by it ye may grow up to salvation". 1 Peter 2:2. Now you will begin to develop a little, and the measure in which you grow by the renewed mind, in that measure you are transformed -- not yet conformed, but transformed, which is more a negative thought. It means that you are different from the world, for Romans does not go very far, but you are different. You have a new set of tastes, a new set of books in your library, for books are largely what the mind feeds on. You listen to new things, and enjoy new things now. You are transformed, and you are proving, by the transformation, that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. You begin by accepting the will of God, but now you are proving it. How many of you young people are proving it? Many of us older ones have proved it; and you have

to prove it, and when you have proved it, it is a fixed thing with you. Then you go on to Ephesians, and you see that the will of God is going through; every part of it is to be given effect to for His good pleasure, and nothing can stand in the way of it. All will be effectuated according to the good pleasure of His will, the counsel of His own will; and He has made known to us the mystery of His will -- to head up all things in Christ. You are proving it in the things you are listening to and practising. Thus it is first in my body, and circumstances, and relations, then in the service of God, and finally in my growth that the new element continues; the renewing of the mind is one of the most interesting things one can speak about. But when you come to Ephesians, you have the renewing of the spirit of your mind. Now there is an advance; but these things are only intelligible as you know them in your soul. How can I define what the spirit of my mind is? I can name it. But it is for each one to determine what the spirit of his mind is. As the spirit of the mind is renewed in me, no matter what is presented to me, if it is not of God, I know instinctively that it is wrong. I have an instinct in my mind, the very spirit of my mind is against that; I know it to be against what is of God. On the other hand, when something is presented to me that is of the Spirit of God, I feel in the spirit of my mind an answer to that; and I say it is with that I am going on, and so I am renewed in the spirit of my mind.

Then in Ephesians Paul goes on to speak of the new man. He says, "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness". Now I come in this process of newness to the new man, and there is only one. What I

have been speaking of hitherto deals with us severally; now we have come to something that deals with all saints, viewed collectively, and I ask is there such a thing in this world at the present time that you know of as "the new man"? You can only take in the idea as you take in all the saints. There is only one new man spoken of, and that includes all the saints. It looks at them as the work of God. The new man is a creation -- created in righteousness and true holiness. Now we have something that is new in which we all have part, and which applies to us all. We are a creation in truthful righteousness and holiness. Think of what a powerful testimony that is in this world! It is not simply the practice of it, but the creation itself of the new man. Take the first of Genesis, and there you see how bit by bit it pleased God to operate; and behold the result was very good. But think of this creation -- "the new man" -- men and women all over the world, the subjects of the creational power of God, and that this has resulted in truthful righteousness and holiness. What a powerful testimony that is! It is a creation which remains, which stands.

And now what I would just like to notice is the connection of this with lying. Having stated the truth the apostle says, Now don't you tell lies to one another. How very humiliating to say this to Christians! even Ephesian Christians, perhaps the most advanced in these days. He says, "Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour". Ephesians 4:25. Why should that be said to Christians? Well, it is appalling the amount of lies that pass current amongst us, and they gather as they go; they do not diminish. It is not that believers are liars; one would shrink from such a thought. The Cretans were always liars; but that was what they were naturally. Christians are not liars, yet here is the command, "Wherefore putting away lying".

You have put off the old man, and that is what marks him: he "is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts" Ephesians 4:22; so let us see to it that the lie is detected and judged. "In the mouth of two or three witnesses that every word be established". 2 Corinthians 131. If things are expressed that involve persons let them be accredited; let them be attested by competent witnesses; and we have abundant instruction what to do if they are attested. But if not attested, they have to be given up. How easily one tells a lie to cover something. It is just a mark of the old man, and so the new man is created in righteousness and true holiness. To the Colossians he says, "Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds". Colossians 3:9. And to the Ephesians, "Having put off falsehood, speak truth every one with his neighbour". Ephesians 4:25. It is a question there of those who live near to us. Tell them the truth. I know how this comes home to every one of us; how easily we exaggerate and falsify things, and convey wrong impressions, but note this, that the new man is created in truthful righteousness and holiness, and it is in that connection that we are told not to tell lies to one another. In what I have been saying I have endeavoured to bring forward the importance of what is new, and how it marks the believer from his spiritual beginnings, also how Romans lays the basis, as I may say, for the New Jerusalem that descends from God out of heaven. We are to form part of that city, and we are being formed for it now, and the elements of it are set forth in Romans, and the youngest believer should see to it that those elements are operative in him in newness of life, in newness of spirit, and in the renewing of the mind, keeping in view also the further thought, that the new man is created in righteousness and holiness of truth.

RESTFULNESS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF CHRIST

Luke 10:39 - 42: John 11:20,28 - 35; Song of Songs 2:3 - 7

What I wish to bring out from these scriptures on this occasion is the importance of restfulness, as being under the influence of Christ. The idea of influence is very wide in its bearings. There are, of course, bad influences. In the book of Revelation we find one of the vials of wrath poured out upon the rivers and fountains of waters. These refer to influences that are pernicious. To-day there are many such influences, diverse to a great extent, but all bearing against what is right and true, and pure, and holy. There are the theatres, the cinemas, the novels, and the magazines, the secret societies, and I may say, alas! the schools and universities; and again, alas! alas! the pulpits -- not all, however, thank God. All these exercise pernicious influences, some directed against God and against Christ in the way of blasphemous teaching, others directed against morals -- the evil woman, the strange woman who flattereth with her tongue, as in Proverbs 6:24. These features of the world are under God's eye for judgment, so that the vial will be poured out on the rivers and springs of water; but over against all these, beloved friends, are good influences -- pre-eminently the influence, the direct influence of Christ.

Now, in the physical system we have this principle of influence. It pervades, as I may say, everything in the physical creation. Without it, indeed, we could not have what we have; we could not have the system as it is, for it is held together on that principle. And then, too, in regard to this earth on which we live, we are dependent in every respect physically on

influence, so that what I intend to present to you in a spiritual way should be simple, should be intelligible. We have the sun, the greatest influence physically. Without it there could be nothing in the way of vegetable life or animal life, and then, besides, it affords guidance, direction and rule, so that as an influence it is for good. And then we have the moon and stars. It is said in the Psalms, "the moon and stars to rule by night; for his mercy endureth for ever". Psalm 136:9. The moon is thus taken account of as an evidence of divine mercy, and its presence in the heavens occasions praise to God. And then we have the stars also. In the book of Job all these things -- "the ordinances of heaven" Job 38:33 -- are appealed to by God Himself, as a witness of His bounty, of His goodness to man, of His resource. They all have their influence for good. "Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades?" Job 38:31. Even what may appear against us, we find is in our favour. The variations of the seasons are attributed, in Scripture, to the great objects set in the heavens. Indeed the variations of the seasons in themselves are beneficial. And then take mountainous districts -- you will bear with me, because I want to work out what is spiritual -- if you take the mountainous districts, which seem to be waste and unprolific, yet when we consider them and know their influences, we see we cannot do without them, for water and other effects coming from them are essential to our well-being physically. And so with trees, and rivers, and lakes, and the ocean itself, which is, notwithstanding its covering, such an enormous amount of space -- more than half of the globe -- yet a proof of the goodness of God to man.

We are born into and brought up in an environment that speaks on every hand of divine goodness for man. What we need most is most plentiful. Take air, for instance, without which we cannot survive, and yet it is in infinite supply; and then again, water,

see the plentifulness of it! We are therefore introduced physically, as born into this world, into an environment that speaks of divine goodness and bounty. All these things influence us. We may not be observant of it, we may not be conscious of it intelligently, yet we are conscious to a certain extent, but if we read the Scriptures they remind us of it. In the book of Job we are reminded of these things, see chapters 38 and 39. They all witness to God. But I confine myself to the idea of influence, we are born into an environment that has influences for good, that act and re-act upon us, and are all intended as witnesses to us on the part of God of His goodness.

But I pass on to speak of spiritual influence. Now the Lord Jesus, who came into this world, is necessarily the great divine influence in it. If we take His advent, even in an external way -- that is the birth of Jesus -- nothing in the history of the world has made such an impression as that has. It has involved a greater change, a greater attention in the course of this world than any other event. But then, if you take it spiritually, beloved friends, and it is from that point of view of course that I desire to speak, there is no other influence like the influence of Christ. As gone up into heaven, as seated at the right hand of God, He exercises an influence on the earth that but few understand. It is an influence that is really miraculous in the true sense of the word; He is unseen by the eyes of men, and yet you find men and women, in every part of the world, influenced directly by Him, so influenced that no other influence can divert them. It is to this I believe He alludes when He says, "I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto me. This he said signifying what death he should die". John 12:33. It means that in spite of the ignominious character of His death He would become an irresistible centre of attraction for all, and that attraction is operating and has been operating all

these centuries, and men and women have been held by it, and no amount of other attractions can move them, for they are held to Christ by the power of the influence of which I have spoken.

I want now to show from the scriptures read how Mary is a model of what I have spoken of. The Lord is seen in Luke as visiting the cities and villages and places in order, one by one. You will see that it is a feature of Luke that when they would have detained Him in one of the cities He says "I must needs announce the glad tidings … to the other cities also, for for this I have been sent forth", Luke 4:43. He would leave none out, and so He is seen visiting them. It was a combing-out process, as it were. Every city, and town, and hamlet must come under His influence. We read that in sending out the seventy, two and two, that He sent them "into every city and place where he himself was about to come", Luke 10:1. It was to convey grace, so that grace might shine in all these cities and places in Palestine. And so in His blessed path on His way to Jerusalem He arrives at a "certain village" -- at Bethany. In Luke, you will observe, it was a question of a "certain village". In His service He could come to the smallest village. He could preach in Jerusalem, preach in the temple, but He could enter into and preach in the most insignificant village in the country; for the point was "To preach" the gospel to the poor. He was here for the good of the poor, of the despised; He belonged to a despised town Himself. And so reaching this village, "A certain woman named Martha received him into her house, and she had a sister called Mary". Luke 10:38,39. She was well off to have such a sister, and so is any company of Christians who have such an one. Such a sister as Mary is a model. 'Well', you say, 'she was not doing much, Martha was doing all the work', but Scripture says, "She had a sister called Mary who also, having sat down at the feet of Jesus, was listening to his word".

If Martha is wise, she will take account of Mary. She has in her a very spiritual sister; possibly there was not a house in Palestine that had a sister like her; she sat at the feet of Jesus and listened to what He was saying. I wonder how many are like her in this company. How many sisters are there like that? I may say here that my impression is that sisters are greatly undervalued. The Holy Spirit emphasises the spirituality, the devotedness, the intelligence, and the service of sisters; He emphasises it to the disadvantage often of the brothers, even the most distinguished of them. Now the secret of her spirituality largely was that she knew how to be restful under the influence of Christ; she was restful. She sat, but she did not sit lazily. There is such a thing as sitting lazily and Scripture takes account of it. We read, indeed, of people who "sit in darkness", Isaiah 42:7 which is a serious matter -- sitting down in darkness. And then we read of Eli the priest, who was rejected, sitting by a post of the temple. Now there is nothing said about seats in the temple or the tabernacle. The priests had to stand, their business was to serve, hence we read, "Ye servants of the Lord which by night stand in the house of the Lord". Psalm 134:1. They are distinguished as devoted, as spiritual in that they stand, when other people are lying down, not only sitting down, but lying down. They stand by night, and that refers to the energy -- the spiritual energy -- that belongs to us as priests for God. And so we find that Eli, as accustomed to sit, developed fatness -- heaviness. He was a fat man, and fatness in that case indicates that God has not had His portion, for the fat belongs to God, whereas Eli was clothed with it. Although there was good in him and he had concern for the ark, he had a very sorrowful end, for he was old and heavy, and he fell from off his seat backwards and his neck brake and he died -- a very sorrowful end to a priest,

as I said. He was evidently accustomed to laziness in the things of God. But now we see it is not so here. In Mary's case it is not that; she sat, but it denoted restfulness. Such an attitude denotes that I am able, through spiritual power in my soul, to withdraw myself from what would keep me, and occupy me, and interest me, and perhaps agitate me, in a natural way; I have such power in my soul that I can withdraw from all these things, and I can even dismiss them, so as to be perfectly restful under the influence of Christ. How many of us know what that is? How many of us know, especially sisters, what it is to sit down with the Scripture and read for oneself, and meditate, and pray, and gather up thus in a spiritual way in one's soul the thoughts of God presented in Christ. You see restlessness marks us naturally, and Martha is but the illustration of it. She is the type of most sisters. Mary is a rare exception. Martha would have passed muster in her own estimate, and I suppose she would include all those like her. Coming to Jesus, she said, "Lord, dost thou not care that my sister has left me to serve alone?" All like her would have said the same had they been there. There would have been a chorus of 'Amens' if there had been any other sisters like her in the house at that time. But the Lord says, "Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things; but one thing is needful; and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her". Her soul appropriated the light that was there for others also. The Lord Himself says, "The lines are fallen unto me in pleasant places, yea I have a goodly heritage". Psalm 16:6. Mary chose one. He was her light; she chose that. There was that territory, so to speak, available and she chose it. It was a good part. She chose something that was good, and the Lord said that it would not be taken away from her. She was

so restful under the influence of Christ, so free from care that she could listen to what He was saying. Such a state would save us from gossip; we should have no time for it; it does not belong to that "good part". There she is listening to what Jesus is saying. There are wonderful things going on in heaven every day. Do we believe it? Do we not believe that there are wonderful things going on in heaven? There are, beloved friends, and here is One come down from heaven, knowing everything that is in heaven, knowing every thought of God; is it not worth while listening to Him instead of to all the things that are going on in the world at the present time? What is called 'The Press' is the most influential thing in the world at the present time. Do you think that is going to last? No, that is all going to be wiped out. The fullest expression of it is in Athens, on Mars Hill, where it says they "spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell or to hear some new thing". Acts 17:21. It was the news exchange of the world. So when Paul comes to Athens some said, "He seems to be an announcer of foreign demons", others said, "What would this chatterer say?" Acts 17:18. Had he been challenged, they would have seen he had no human credentials. But when Paul writes to the Ephesians he says, "Whereby when ye read ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery". Ephesians 3:9. What a knowledge he had! he was full of heavenly things; there was no room there for chattering.

And so, as I said, Mary came to hear what Jesus was saying, she was listening to His word, and what He was saying will yet fill the whole moral universe, and what anyone else says is of no value, if it is not in regard to, or expressive of what Jesus says. Well, Mary sat there, restful in spirit; Martha had a wonderful sister in such an one as Mary, and any sister like that in a meeting would be a great asset

to the saints. Mary is a model; she was not a gossiper, she was not a busybody. She is occupied and engaged in listening to the word of Jesus. He would give her directions in regard to everything, in regard to every sphere of responsibility in which she is set. The part is there, and it is for us, as it was for Mary, to choose that good part which shall not be taken away from the one who has chosen it. Now when you come to John's gospel Mary of Bethany is still a model. John the evangelist gives John the baptist as a model in the beginning of his gospel, and Mary of Bethany is later given as a model of spirituality. She was that. So when the Lord comes into the district she hears about Him but she does not leave the house. Martha did. It is a very touching passage. Martha left the house immediately when she heard the Lord had come. You may say: 'She appeared more interested in the Lord than Mary was, for it says "Mary sat still in the house"'. The truth is she had learned how to sit, that is, she had learned how to be restful even in the existing circumstances which occasioned great sorrow. Martha left the house and went to the Lord and spoke to Him, but almost every word she said showed her ignorance. She was a true believer, but almost every word she uttered indicated her unspirituality. The Lord regarded her and spoke to her, but she was not spiritual, notwithstanding her readiness to run and meet Him. However, she had a sister. After expressing to the Lord what was just a bit of orthodoxy, she went to Mary and said to her, "The Master is come, and calleth for thee". The Lord knew Martha and He knew Mary; even as now He knows every spiritual one in the meeting. He did not over-estimate Martha's activities; He did not underestimate her, He valued her. He values every one of us. He died for Martha as He died for Mary, but He knew Mary's measure; He knew them both well, but

He called for Mary, and Martha is gracious enough to bring the message. As soon as the Lord calls Mary she arises quickly and goes to Jesus.

What I want you to note, beloved, is the influence of a spiritual person. Martha left the house and went to the Lord but nobody followed her, no one was specially interested in her movements, but as soon as Mary arose quickly and left the house, the Jews took note of what she did and followed her. If you are spiritual, you will be sure to be influential; you will be a leader. A leader is not some 'great man' who governs; a leader is simply one who goes before and shows the way; he knows the way, he sees the path, he does not need to be a gifted man; the point is he knows the way, and having the confidence of others, they follow him in it. So as soon as Mary left the house, the Jews -- those who were with her in the house -- took note of it. If a person is spiritual every one in the locality will note it, they will all know about it, and even those who are not Christians will be influenced by it. So the Jews followed Mary when she arose to go to Jesus; they did not leave when Martha left, they remained still in the house and consoled Mary; they knew the difference between Martha and Mary, they knew how deeply Mary felt the loss of her brother. She was spiritual, so they left and followed her, and all this culminates, as you would expect, in her falling down at His feet. He answered Martha's questions. He valued her in His answers, but when Mary saw Him it was not only that she came to Him but she fell at His feet. She was moved when she saw Him, and this brings in the Lord's action, for He respects those who are spiritual. He cares for every one of us, spiritual or unspiritual, but He takes account of the spiritual. And so when He saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, He groaned in His spirit. The Lord had respect for the Jews because they had respect for

Mary -- He noted Mary weeping and them weeping, and then we read, "Jesus wept". I think we are entitled to count upon the sympathy of Christ in the same way in regard of any real difficulty in a locality. It is felt by the spiritual ones and the Lord knows that, and in proportion to their movements, and their feelings, He moves, He feels, and He groans in His spirit. Death had come in, in the circle at Bethany, and these sisters were suffering from that; they had been robbed of their brother by death. We -- all of us -- may be robbed of a brother by death; we have to love our brother, and if we love him the Lord will take note of it. If we are spiritual, the more will the Lord take account of it. "He groaned in the spirit", we read. 'Groan' is a most remarkable word; it means the deep inward resentment of the thing that causes the suffering; and so it is in every case. The Lord deeply resents whatever it is that causes the suffering amongst His people, and doing so, you may depend upon it He will deal with it; He has power to deal with every adverse thing. The Holy Spirit gives us in one sentence the extent to which the Lord felt the cause of their suffering: "Jesus wept", and it is to be noted that it is in connection with the movements of a spiritual woman -- Mary of Bethany -- that He did so.

Well now, having said so much, I just for a moment refer to the Song of Solomon to show you how, in spirit, we may see Mary before her time, as it were, in the feminine speaker in the Canticles, for she is the embodiment of feminine exercises, so that every woman of faith in the New Testament may be taken as corresponding with her. The speaker says, "As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons". She had come to make comparisons. The tree spoken of indicated a certain feature of Christ. "As the apple tree among the trees of the wood". She had had to do with the

apple tree. She was brought up under it. As I said, by natural birth into this world we are brought into an environment of influence. In chapter 8 we read, "I raised thee up under the apple tree; there thy mother brought thee forth", Song of Songs 8:5 which means being brought into this world spiritually, and raised up under the influence of Christ. As brought up under it, she was well acquainted with the apple tree. It was her existence spiritually, as it is in every one of us; we are all dependent on Christ. She knew something of Christ. If you confessed the Lord two or three years ago, and know but little about Him now, you have not made progress. The Lord said to the disciples, "Who say ye that I am?" Matthew 16:15, Mark 8:29, Luke 9:20. So you have to come to that, you have to give an answer as to what is your estimate of Christ. Is He not superior to all the other men you have ever met? Is He not superior to all the men you have ever heard of? You say Scripture says so, but that is not the point. The question is what do you say? It is what you say. You have to come into contact with Him and to be raised up under Him. This book is to show you how the believer is brought into acquaintance with Christ, and as knowing Him loving Him; so that the point is not what Scripture says, not what others say, but what you say. What do you say? What do you say now? Peter answers, "Thou art the Christ". Peter meant that there is no other like Him in the whole universe of God; He is the Man -- the only Man -- by whom God is going to do everything. In Mark's gospel this point was raised by the Lord Jesus following on the account of the man who had his eyes opened and saw men as trees walking; chapter 8. That is the way many of us look at men. They are very large in our eyes, but we have to come to see that they are not trees. Peter's answer, "Thou art the Christ", meant that he saw One who is God's anointed, who is everything to God, and who carries

out all His will. There is no other man in the whole universe like that. We have to be brought to see Him as that; so the bride in Canticles says, "As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons". There are other sons, all Christians are sons, but there is no one equal to Christ; He is supreme, excelling them all. She says, "In his shadow have I rapture and sit down". In the Authorised Version it reads, "I sat down under his shadow with great delight". It is not that she sat down and became delighted; she became enraptured under His influence as knowing Him; and being brought up under Him for years, she sat down to enjoy it. She had been brought up under His presence and became so enraptured that she sat down under it. That is the idea.

Then you see how there was sustenance, for we need sustenance. She speaks of being "sick of love", which means that if I am not sustained by suitable food, I give way to natural weaknesses, so I need spiritual sustenance to maintain me here, hence she says, "He brought me to the banqueting house", "to the house of wine" as the New Translation puts it. I need that to strengthen me spiritually. Then, too, it says, "Sustain ye me with raisin-cakes, refresh me with apples, for I am sick of love". There you see you have the sustaining food, refreshing food, and then you have His own sympathy. He supports you -- His left hand under your head, and His right hand embracing you. Our heads need to be rightly balanced in dealing with divine things, so that we lean not to our own understanding but on the Spirit. We need the Lord's support, and then the affections are kept by His right hand, so that we are rightly balanced as a result of the suitableness of His blessed influence. Beloved friends, that is where we have restfulness -- under the love of Christ. So she finishes in this paragraph as you will observe by saying, "I charge you, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, by the roes, and by the hinds of the field, that ye stir not up nor awake my love till he please".

The word 'he' is, I believe, the neuter gender, and should read 'Till it please'. "Hereby we have known love, because he has laid down his life for us; and we ought for the brethren to lay down our lives". 1 John 3:16. Love must be supreme. Love must act for itself. You are not to stir it up nor awaken it. In having the sense of it, you do not do anything, you just leave it, as in Christ, to itself, to act for itself in grace. It is wonderful. We do not stir it up till it please. You are restful, for you know love under His influence. It will bring out all the wealth of heaven, for everything is at the disposal of love and you are restful there.

"YE WHO ARE SPIRITUAL"

1 Corinthians 14:37; 1 Corinthians 15:46; 1 Corinthians 2:15: Galatians 6:1

These scriptures speak of what is spiritual; indeed, this first epistle to the Corinthians uses the word 'spiritual' more frequently than any other epistle or book in Scripture, and by this we are reminded of the importance of spirituality in our public position in relation to the assembly as here in the presence of this world, for this letter so contemplates it -- the assembly -- as in the presence of the world, treated as something by itself alongside the Jews and the Gentiles.

There was at Corinth that ancient religion with which God had been connected; there was a Jewish synagogue there, with its ritual and connection with Jerusalem. Then there was the Gentile temple -- the religious centre of the idolatrous places of worship; then there was the church of God. Had you lived there, you might have visited the Jewish synagogue. There you would have found a copy of the Scriptures -- the Old Testament -- you would hear them read, too, on each Sabbath as was customary, but you would be made conscious, if you were spiritual, that there was the total absence of all spirituality in the true sense. It was a dead system. Scriptures read were merely the letter which 'kills' -- without the spirit. You would find, too, intense hostility to Christ. You might in turn visit the Gentile temple. There you would find sacrifices offered to heathen deities, and you would be conscious of spirituality in the bad sense, for what the Gentiles sacrificed, they sacrificed "to demons and not to God". 1 Corinthians 10:20. As a Christian you would recoil from that, and you would leave it for ever behind. You might then turn into the place in which the Christians met. You would find there

immediately after Paul's departure, or while he was present (he was there eighteen months), believers convening as intelligent persons. You would find them waiting upon one another, and marked by a total absence of all mere religious ceremony -- a total absence of all that marks human religion and religious customs. You would find the Lord's supper as Paul had delivered it to them. He had received it from the Lord, and he had delivered it to them. They would thus be marked by great simplicity, just as if Paul were present, as doubtless he was on many first days of the week. On such occasions, besides extreme simplicity, there would be great spiritual power, as the apostle spoke to the Lord in regard to the bread and to the cup. No one present could fail to be impressed with spirituality, with the sense of holiness, with divine love. And then presently the brethren would be found together for edification, and one after another would rise and prophesy, or take part in some edifying way in the assembly. Only one impression could be conveyed in the presence of all this -- that God was there -- not only Paul or other gifts were there, but that God was indeed among them. So we have thus in that city a company of men and women marked by divine intelligence, by spirituality in which God is known, so much so that an unbeliever coming in would fall down and recognise that He was there.

Now it was the continuance of this which I have endeavoured to describe, that the apostle laboured for in writing this letter. There had been a departure from it. A partisan spirit had set in -- rivalry between leaders and other sorrowful conditions, so that he is obliged to write this letter, in which he embodies for them, and for the assembly for all time, the law that is to govern the assembly of God as a public body here, and that should therefore govern every local company professing to walk in the light of that

assembly. And so, in closing what relates directly to the order of the assembly, the apostle says, "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord".

Now, dear brethren, we have the thing brought down and put directly before all who profess to prophesy or who profess to be spiritual. As it was brought to the door of every such one in Corinth, so it is brought to the door of every such one at the present time. If there be any one who presumes to be spiritual, let him recognise this letter as the Lord's commandments. And so I bring in this feature at the outset. Without it we cannot have spirituality. We may assume to be prophets, to be ministers, to be spiritual, but, unless we recognise this epistle as the Lord's commands, we are disqualified and out of fellowship. You may say that is very sweeping; it is a most solemn test applied to every one in Christendom. Every one who assumes to be a minister of Christ, who assumes to be spiritual, has to face this test. Does he recognise this letter as the Lord's commandment? The word 'commandment' is in the singular; it is one idea, or as I may say, the law of the house -- to use the Old Testament expression. In coming to that expression I would say that I know of nothing of greater practical importance than that there is such a law. No one who loves the Lord is afraid of law, even the law as we call it -- the ten commandments. The Lord had that in His heart. Some put it on the shelf and see it no longer. The Lord had it in the most sacred spot. He said of it: "One jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled". Matthew 5:18. It is, in the essence of it, love, as He defines it in His own inimitable way as He briefly expresses it. The first commandment is: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind". Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:30.

Does anyone who loves God shrink from that? No one. You may fail in it, but you face it. As one says, "I delight in the law of God after the inward man". Romans 7:22. As delighting in it, he is in correspondence with Christ. Like the ark of old which had the law within, so every true believer corresponds if he delights in the law The second commandment "is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets". Matthew 22:39. So Paul says, the law is spiritual. The word 'spiritual' is little used in Romans, but the law is said to be spiritual. No spiritual person would shrink from what is spiritual.

Then to come to the law of the house, the expression is found in the prophet Ezekiel 43:12. "This is the law of the house; upon the top of the mountain the whole limit thereof round about shall be most holy" "Behold, this is the law of the house". He repeats it. In dwelling on law, I have arrived at the law of the house, and I want to say that in the Old Testament the priest was especially responsible for it: "They should seek the law at his mouth", Malachi 2:7. He did not formulate it, for usually the Lord spake unto Moses, that is to say the law comes out by the apostle. It is a question of the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that is the great point in the first epistle to the Corinthians. If you look at Romans which deals with the believer individually, and then at Corinthians, you will be impressed with the recurrence of the word 'Lord'. It is a question of authority, and the authority of God, whether it appertains to the individual believer, or to the assembly in its public position in this world, comes through our Lord Jesus Christ, and hence the importance of recognising that the things which the apostle wrote to the Corinthians were the commandments of the Lord. So the law in the Old Testament was given to Moses, but the priest was responsible for its

maintenance, for its enforcement, and for its application.

Moses had strictly no successor. There was one apostle. Joshua would follow on, but he was not an apostle. Moses in that way is a type of the Lord. He stands alone as representing the authority of God, so we have the testimony of the Scriptures -- the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms. Moses represents the authority of God, the prophets the patience of God, and the Psalms the experience of the people of God with God. These are the divisions of the Old Testament. The first is the greatest, and that is the law. The priest, as I said, was charged with the enforcement of the law. Little is made of Moses' children -- of his house, but a great deal is made of Aaron's house. Aaron represents Christ as high priest, and his house represents the saints as priests, and the priests are responsible for the law. And so, dear brethren, it is obvious that if we are responsible for it, we should know it. Every priest, therefore, that is every brother and sister, should understand the law of the house, for each one is responsible. You will find in Leviticus, in the first five chapters, the Lord speaks to Moses and directs him to speak to the children of Israel. In chapter 6 He directs him to speak to Aaron and his sons, because chapters 6 and 7 give the laws of the offerings, and the priests were responsible for the laws governing the offerings. And so, as I said, it is obvious that every believer should be versed in the law of the house. I have cited to you from Ezekiel the expression "the law of the house", Ezekiel 43:12 and it corresponds with this passage in Corinthians, that every one that is spiritual, that is to say, every true priest of God, will recognise that this epistle is the law governing the assembly in its public relations.

In the next chapter we are told that that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural, and

afterward that which is spiritual. To enforce this statement, you have also, in this chapter, that the body of the Christian as buried is natural, but when it is raised, it will be spiritual. This verse 46 is dealing with what God had introduced in Adam. He had introduced the natural man, but it says, although that was first, and afterward that which was spiritual, yet it is that which is spiritual that is to remain. Death terminates what is natural. When we are raised we shall be raised as spiritual, and how I wish to apply this to ourselves, dear brethren, is that if we are spiritual we shall not put the natural first. Now that has a very wide bearing. We may recognise the law of the house and be accurate in its application, but when we come to our families the tendency is to place them before the saints. This will not do. If I place my family -- the natural -- before the family of God, I am spiritually defective; and I am disqualifying myself to that extent in the assembly. So this fifteenth chapter -- one of the most remarkable in Scripture, deals with the resurrection, and introduces this thought, that that which is first is natural, afterward that which is spiritual. And so it is written, "The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit" 1 Corinthians 15:45; "... and we shall as we have borne the image of the earthy, also bear the image of the heavenly". 1 Corinthians 15:49. A wonderful prospect before us. I only dwell upon it, dear brethren, as a corrective against what we are all so prone to -- not excluding myself in any sense -- to consider the natural before the spiritual. In doing so we are doing injury to ourselves, to our families, and to the saints, and thus proving ourselves to be defective spiritually.

Well, now, I go on to the second chapter, and I want to show how spiritual persons have power of discernment -- a most important element -- for we are confronted constantly with baffling things. Now it

may be a matter of doctrine, or it may be a moral issue, or again it may be a person who is in question, and hence the importance of the power of discernment. "The spiritual", the apostle says, "discerns all things". 1 Corinthians 2:15. He might have said the priest discerns all things, for the spiritual in the New Testament is the priest in the Old Testament. The priest in the Old Testament is a type of those who are spiritual. It is not that believers who are not spiritual are not priests, because they are. Priesthood is not attained. I am a priest, because I am of the house of Aaron; in other words, I am a priest because I have received the Holy Spirit. Every one who has the Spirit is a priest, but every one who is a priest is not necessarily so in a practical sense. The Corinthians had the Spirit; the Galatians had the Spirit, but they were not priests characteristically; indeed, the apostle says to the Corinthians, that he could not speak unto them as unto spiritual but as unto carnal, and I fear, dear brethren, that such a word may be applied in a very extensive way at the present time. We are not spiritual. If brethren were spiritual, why all these local difficulties? Why all these questions that hang for weeks, and months, and even years without settlement? The apostle says, "Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you?" 1 Corinthians 6:5. One wise man would settle the matter. Consider the wise woman in 2 Samuel 20. She went to the people of the city in her wisdom. She was confronted with a serious problem. The armies of Joab were investing the city, threatening to destroy the walls, and there was one man there named Sheba, who was a rebel and he had to be dealt with, and to this end Joab was investing the city -- an able general about to destroy it. It is but a type of what exists, alas! in some places that I know of at the present time. It was not a rebellion like Absalom's. Absalom carried a great part of the nation against David, but Sheba was shut in in the

city Abel. The evil was more limited -- it was confined to a locality. I have been impressed in moving about, dear brethren, that that is the character of things at the present time. Satan is creating a rebellious state of things. He operates in localities: saints are disturbed, and the local company is in danger of disruption and moral destruction. What is to be done? In these matters wisdom is the principal thing, as it says in Proverbs. So this wise woman, as she is called, went to the people of the city in her wisdom. A sister, or a young brother, may look on with folded arms and say, 'They do this and they do that', but what are you doing? That is the thing. Have you no responsibility? Do you own no allegiance to the Lord for His interests here?

Well, this woman Calls to Joab over the wall, and refers him to what happened in olden times. She tells him to enquire at Abel, and it was the city that was in question. He enquired at Abel. Every local company ought to be a place of enquiry. If you look for a moment at the passage in 2 Samuel 20:18 you will see that every local company should be a place of taking counsel. It is well, of course, to take counsel at any source where divine wisdom may be found, for there is only one assembly really, and every one in it is available; thus whatever wisdom there may be is available to us, and we should avail ourselves of it. But then, what about taking counsel at Abel? The apostle teaches in this epistle that the saints are the temple, and the Spirit of God dwells in them. "Know ye not", he Says, "that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" 1 Corinthians 3:16. Why not resort to that? Take counsel. You see this woman refers Joab to this old time principle, and this principle is as old as the epistle to the Corinthians. We are not governed by modern things at all. Christians are not to be governed by present-day ideas and improvised laws. People say

the times have changed. God has not changed; the Spirit has not changed; the divine principle has not changed. The flesh is the same, and Satan is the same. It is all a delusion. We have the same conditions to deal with, and this old time principle still holds good. The saints are the temple of God and the Holy Spirit dwells in them, and there should be a humble taking counsel, as the wise woman says at Abel, "And so they ended the matter". 2 Samuel 20:18. That was the thing, but announcing the principle was one thing and carrying it out was another. Many of us can unfold principles, but fail in the application of them. But this wise woman did not fail in carrying out the principle set forth. She went unto all the people of the city in her wisdom. You can understand her going to an old brother or sister, to a young brother or sister, and saying, 'You know how they did at Corinth; you know what Paul said. Let us apply it'.

She went to them all, we read. The assembly is composed of all the saints. It was never intended that the assembly should be governed by a group, nor even by all the brothers, but by all.

The offending person at Abel was located and dealt with. The head of Sheba was thrown over the wall. This is the way the principle works, if wisdom is active. The offending party is dealt with, and no one else suffers. Why should they suffer? Why should the meeting be held up for years, all because of a few offending ones? Why cannot they be dealt with? I know very well, dear brethren, how difficult it is, but I repeat again, The woman went to all the people in her wisdom, and we read, "They cut off the head of Sheba". 2 Samuel 20:22. She did not do it. No one person ought to do things in the assembly. The people did it. Then the army of Joab retired and the city was spared. The local company was saved. Well now, that is what you get in this epistle. One who discerns is one who has wisdom; he discerns all things. He can see through this brother

or that brother. He discerns what is at work.

Now another important thing is that we have to act on testimony. "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established". 2 Corinthians 13:1. Surely the assembly of God should be equal to any court in the land, but one knows of things passing as right that are not right. Things ought to be established on the basis of accredited testimony -- "in the mouth of two or three witnesses". But then, in that the priest is to adjudicate. Everything is at the word of the priest, according to Deuteronomy. Anyone who does 'presumptuously' resisting the word of the priest, is to be cut off; Deuteronomy 17:12. It is the spiritual element that should mark us. If any one resists the judgment, he is not fit for fellowship. It is the voice of the Lord announced in the assembly.

The judgment of the priest is according to the law. Deuteronomy 17:11. It stands and must not be set aside. So you see, dear brethren, the importance of spirituality, that there may be spiritual discernment. The spiritual discerneth all things, yet he himself is discerned of no one. That means, I apprehend, no unconverted person can understand a spiritual man; as it goes on to say, "Who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him?" 1 Corinthians 2:11. No unconverted person knows the spiritual man; then it adds, "But we have the mind of Christ", 1 Corinthians 2:16 and that means that we believers, having the Holy Spirit, have the thinking faculty of Christ, that is the means of understanding and judging things that He had. The believer has the faculty, the mind of Christ.

Well now, I need not dwell further on this. I turn now to Galatians 6:1. It is obvious, I am sure, that this first verse is really important, if we are to go on together according to God. The power of discerning things leads to judgments being arrived at in the assembly that are the mind of God, and that must stand. If you look at Deuteronomy

17 you will see that what I am saying is right. The priest is to judge according to the law, and his judgment must stand. Anyone who did not hearken to it, or set it aside, is cut off; "that man shall die", Deuteronomy 17:12 it is said. What a serious thing it is for Christendom in the light of all these things! As the apostle says: "Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy?" 1 Corinthians 10:22. Are we stronger than he?

Referring again to Galatians 6, what is enjoined there is for the priest. It is the principle of Deuteronomy 17 over again. It is a verse for the priest, for the spiritual. What is in view is not only that the fault has overtaken the man, but that the spiritual have overtaken the man in the fault. What are you going to do? Are you going to deal with him in a summary way? No. Those that are spiritual, the priests, are called in to judge him. It is a question here not of ex-communication, nor of withdrawal from, but of recovery, of restoration, and hence the great need of the spirit of the priest -- one who can have compassion on the ignorant and erring, since he himself is compassed with infirmity. We are all capable of the thing, whatever it may be, so we act toward the erring one in the spirit of meekness, considering ourselves, lest we also be tempted. You are sympathetic. As a spiritual person you are not going to judge according to the flesh, nor according to man, but according to the priest. The priest should reflect what God is, not only in His authority, but in His compassion -- His consideration for man. So, "ye who are spiritual restore such a one". How important it is, therefore, dear brethren, that in our localities there should be spiritual persons! How can we hope to maintain things for God in the presence of such pressure of evil around us, unless we have priests, those who can discern between both good and evil, and who can choose the good and refuse the evil?

May God bless these thoughts to us.

READING

Luke 5

J.T. What is to be noticed in this chapter is that it refers to the several occupations of the saints; in other words, it takes account of our circumstances under the government of God, our business circumstances, especially as these are seen in relation to the Lord's servants, who, before entering on the spiritual partnership had been in a temporal partnership. It is said in verse 7, "They beckoned unto their partners", and again in verse 10, "James and John the sons of Zebedee, which were partners with Simon". It is not accidental that the Lord, as it says, "entered into one of the ships which was Simon's". Then again we find of Levi that he, as a tax-gatherer, was sitting at the receipt of taxes. If we are to take part effectively according to God in the new thing, in the new partnership, we must be prepared for the Lord to enter into our temporal business circumstances, and see how He takes account of them in view of what He is going to introduce us into. In the case of Zacchaeus Luke tells us that he also was a tax-gatherer. He had evidently judged himself as to his ways and his business, for he told the Lord and the others that if he had defrauded any man he restored him fourfold; besides that, he gave half his goods to the poor. What we find here is that the fishermen who owned the boats were washing their nets. This is not recorded as a mere incident.

F.J.F. Do you mean that we should conduct our business in such wise that the Lord can come into it and examine it?

J.T. W ell, I think it should bear His investigation. Does it occur to you that the Lord may come in at any time to your business, or perhaps to your home,

to see how you are conducting things in these spheres?

F.J.F. We must he careful whether what is of Him finds its place there. There is the spirit in which one would conduct things, and then the books would be open to His scrutiny.

J.T. It was commendable that they were washing their nets.

Ques. What does that signify?

J.T. Well, I think it means that the element of cleanliness and purity was already there, because Peter had before this come into contact with the Lord. It is to be noted that this is not the first time that Peter met the Lord. According to Matthew you would take it that it was, but according to Luke He was in Peter's house before this; Luke 4:38,39. One cannot come into contact with the Lord without being impressed in some way as to what is required. It may be in a little way, but the Lord will always impress you with some sense of divine requirement. He was here on the part of God; and in this gospel He is addressed as the Christ of God; so that in coming into contact with Him for the first time one could not fail to be impressed with some sense of what is due to God.

F.J.F. Why do you think it is left out here, as Mark states, that James and John were mending their nets? There it states that Peter and Andrew were casting a net into the sea and John and his brother were mending.

J.T. In Luke, as we have often remarked, grace is in view and it takes account of what is needed. Washing here indicates what is needed in our circumstances so that we should be available as vessels of grace. As one is affected by the love of God he has a sense of divine requirement. We have in Matthew, Peter, and his brother Andrew, in view, and the sons of Zebedee in the ship, but what is emphasised here is Simon and the partners. It is a business matter,

and the fishermen having come down from their ships were washing their nets. There can be no doubt that our nets need washing. To transact business in this world means that you have to come in contact with men who know not God, and whose idea of things is not yours. You have to do with them or you could not be in business at all; but you are sure to come in contact with the filth of this world, your nets are sure to become defiled. It is a very wholesome reminder, because God calls us from our businesses.

F.J.F. The Lord shows in this way that I must be always in movement with regard to His things here.

J.T. You have a sense that God must be brought into your circumstances and so you wash your nets. We have not come to Peter yet being washed from his sinfulness. What is noted here is that the fishermen were washing their nets. It was a business affair. The situation is what we call 'business'. And God calls us out of our businesses; but what we are doing in them is called attention to, what marks us in them. They were washing their nets, there was some sense of the need of cleanliness, not yet holiness, we may say, but cleanliness. As the net thrown into the sea is liable to become defiled by the various elements which it comes in contact with, so man's business brings him into touch with what is defiling, what is unclean; and if he is with God, he has a sense that there must be the washing.

W.A.S. I think I see that. Would that involve limitations in business?

J.T. I think it does. The fact that we have to do in relation to men of this world necessarily limits us, so that we rely on God and not on human methods for provision; nor should we seek expansion for its own sake.

Rem. Peter said to Simon Magus, "Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter". Acts 8:21.

J.T. Simon offered to pay for the power to give the Holy Spirit to others. He was outside the partnership of which we are speaking; he had "neither part nor lot in the matter". Acts 8:21. It is a most solemn thing if one has neither part nor lot in the matter. The Lord also says to Peter at the feet-washing, "If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me". John 13:8.

J.G. Do you connect the cleansing of the nets with righteousness?

J.T. Well, I would think that. One has to draw them in and look at them and see how much one has been damaged by coming in contact with the world.

F.J.F. And although they may not acquire profit as yet they do acquire defilement. It might be what we call a bad time, a bad season, but that does not exclude us from the defilement.

J.T. More likely to make you more defiled. You put more effort into it, you try to make more out of it, you try to make more out of this world. That is the reason why when business goes bad, that we should bring God into it. It is very remarkable that the Lord comes into Peter's boat when business is bad. He intervenes trying circumstances to bring light into Peter's soul.

F.J.F. And Peter, as it were, gave Him an opening.

J.T. The Lord knew well that business was bad. He knew that the fishing was not good. "He entered into one of the ships, which was Simon's". He was after Simon. He knew all about Simon, and he would take advantage of these trying circumstances to get at him. He had been in his house and had raised up his mother-in-law. He had, as it were, put things right in his house, in his domestic affairs, which is quite another matter. The domestic affairs are not the business affairs. Sometimes a mother or a wife does not know anything about the business, so

one is particularly responsible for one's business. It was into Simon's boat that now He entered. He wanted to get at Simon's soul. We cannot be in the fellowship of the people of God unless we know ourselves and judge ourselves.

R.S. Is that what you meant when you said Simon Magus had neither part nor lot in the matter?

J.T. Yes. He did not judge himself. As far as outward appearance was concerned, he was quite a good brother in Samaria but he did not judge himself. He had neither part nor lot in the matter.

F.J.F. He wanted to do a good business by it.

J.T. He wanted reputation -- power to maintain his greatness. He was willing to pay for the power to impart the Spirit. Now the Lord used the circumstance of the fishing to show what control He had of the fish of the sea. Fishermen have to do with uncertain quantities. You can see the cattle, you can see the trees and everything on land, you may count their number, but you cannot make any census of the fish.

F.J.F. They hear about where they are.

J.T. Well, even so, they know very little about them. The Son of man is Lord over the fish of the sea. I understand that in the Greek Archipelago there were about 105 species of fish discovered. There must be many more than that. All that there is in the depths of the sea belongs to the Lord, and those who have to do with it should be led by this fact to turn to Him.

F.J.F. "They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; these see the works of the Lord and his wonders in the deep". Psalm 127:23,24.

R.S. Scientists are trying to explore them.

J.T. Yes, but they never will. It is God's realm. The Lord intended to take advantage of this circumstance to show who He was, so He says to Simon, "Draw out into the deep water and let down your nets for a haul".

And Simon answered, "Master, we have toiled all the night and have taken nothing, nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net. And when they had this done they inclosed a great multitude of fishes". The Lord sees into the deep where they are.

F.M. I think it is a very profitable exercise for us to be ready at any moment for the Lord to look into our businesses.

J.T. I think it is. One has a sense of responsibility of one's business. Some have said that a man's business is one thing and his assembly affairs another. They are very closely related. There is the domestic side first in Peter's case, then the business matter comes before he is taken up officially for the service of God.

F.M. The Lord finds clean nets. He finds things in order, so He can use Peter's net.

J.T. Yes, what is to be noted is that Peter says "At thy word"; he indicates that he had already had to do with the Lord. He was not one who had come in contact with Him for the first time. I think that the washing of the nets indicates that there was a sense of the requirement of cleanliness. Then, too, he was ready to do at the word of Christ which is surely an immense thing -- to do whatever He says: "At thy word". He was doubtful about it, but he was obedient to the Lord.

Rem. He would be able to fish for men after that.

J.T. Yes, it is a great thing to be obedient to the Lord. Peter did not sit, and reason, and refuse to do it. He did not say "There is no fish in this part of the sea, there is no use doing it". But he says, "At thy word". He was subject.

F.M. Would you say a word as to the difference between righteousness and purity?

J.T. Well, righteousness is that one recognises the rights of God and the rights of men, that in your

business you recognise all rights and meet them, but then one might be acting righteously without cleansing, but nevertheless I think true righteousness and cleansing go together. They are very intimately related. But what was before the Lord was to reach Peter's soul, so that he should know himself. I think that your business relations are calculated to bring out what you are. You will discover how slow you are to learn what is sinful, but as the light comes into your soul it is not only that I have sinned but that I am sinful. I may know that the sinful state is there all the time, but that is what one is slow to acknowledge. We are weak in arriving at this point of conscious sinfulness, not simply that I have sinned but that I am sinful. As I was remarking the other day in regard to the book of Leviticus, the offerings are dealt with according to the law, the sons of Aaron offer strange fire, what is unclean in the way of the things of this world is exposed, and the offerings required after the birth of children are stated -- these are all dealt with before you get the subject of leprosy; all these things have happened before you get leprosy. It is the last thing we come to, I think, in our histories as discerning ourselves -- to discover that we are lepers. It is not only that I have sinned, but that I am a leper. Well, that is what comes out here. Peter says, "I am a sinful man", and the next incident recorded is that the Lord came to a certain city and "behold there was a man full of leprosy". He had to be cleansed. The first paragraph in the chapter is that Peter is exposed, the next is that there is a man full of leprosy, and the Lord touches him and the leprosy departs, and then he is charged to go to the priest. It says, "Go, and shew thyself to the priest". It is not simply that I am cleansed from the leprosy, but I have to be brought to God. You have to go to the priest, and offer for your cleansing as Moses ordained. Business is an important part in

one's life in connection with one's dealings; that in which you spend a great part of your time must be taken into divine reckoning.

Ques. Would you say that we should take God into our business, into our circumstances?

J.T. I am sure we should. We are dependent on God in everything. But then not only that, one would not like any man to come into the business and examine it and find it not right.

R.S. And so we should do things in the light of righteousness as our brother has said.

J.T. Just so.

Rem. All the principles of evil that are in this world we find in ourselves.

J.T. Exactly We are just the same naturally as men in this world are; being in contact with them we are always in danger of acting like them; we thus become defiled.

Rem. As a Christian you would not do your business as a man of the world would.

J.T. You must bring righteousness and cleanliness into it.

Ques. Where does one wash one's nets?

J.T. In self-judgment I suppose. It says "our bodies washed with pure water". Hebrews 10:22. In the types a man had to wash his clothes. One is particularly concerned about the business relations here. The same idea is carried right through the chapter; Peter discovers that he is a sinful man, then follows the case of the man full of leprosy; it is the same man carried through. Then by the touch of Christ the leprosy departs, but he has yet to be set up in the presence of God, so that it says, "Go, and shew thyself to the priest". The priest sets him up in the presence of God. On the divine side cleansing is effected on the ground of the bird slain, and the other bird dipped in its blood let loose into the open field -- figurative of the death and resurrection of Christ;

but then the man has to shave off all his hair. "He that is to be cleansed shall wash his clothes, and shave off all his hair". Leviticus 14:8. He has been in business, he has been sinning, that is true; he has been a man of reputation; his hair would denote that. The living bird was to be dipped in the blood of the bird slain along with the cedar wood, the scarlet, and the hyssop, and he that is cleansed has to shave off all his hair and wash his clothes and wash himself in water. After that he can come into the camp, but he was to remain out of his tent seven days. He was not only known by his house, but he was well known by his neighbours outside of his tent; it is where I am known that I have to shave off all my hair. I have been a leper; everyone knows that I have been a leper. I have lost all my hair, all my dignity. That is a very humbling thing. "Go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them". On the seventh day he has to be shaved again -- "all his hair, his head, and his beard, and his eyebrows, even all his hair". Leviticus 14:9. It had grown a little bit more. All this was in view of the eighth day, when the thought is he is to be brought to God. He is to leave his own house and to come to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the Lord, where he is in the presence of the saints. It is not a question now of his house or of his neighbours, but of where God is, and where the people of God are. He is in the presence of the saints and he is to be brought in there. So the eighth day is a new thing. It requires not only that the leprosy be removed but that I am set up in a new way in the power of the Spirit, so he is brought to God on the eighth day. He is presented by the priest at the entrance of the tent of meeting before Jehovah with certain offerings, a meat-offering and one log of oil, and thus he is set up according to God.

F.M. What is the significance of the Lord touching the leper?

J.T. It is identification. He identified Himself with the leprosy, that is, He had to die to remove it. He touched it. There are one or two beautiful touches about Peter. He fell down at Jesus' knees. The light exposing him induced him to fall down at Jesus' knees, which is a touch that we only get in Luke, because Luke sets forth a Man who intercedes for us -- a Man who prays. Peter recognises that the Lord would intercede for him; he fell down at His knees.

W.A.S. Would you say it was only in the case of trying exercises that the great temporal favour had this effect on Peter?

J.T. I think that, and now he is prepared for the most terrible exposure. It is that he is a leper. It is very humbling to know that one is a leper -- "a sinful man". I have found out that I am full of sin.

W.A.S. Do you think that that exposure is found amongst many of the saints? You were saying in regard of Leviticus that the cleansing of the leper comes after many instructions as to what the holiness of God required.

J.T. It is not at the beginning. I think it is later that it takes place. Leprosy is not a question of sins; it is a question of state. I think Peter had the element of cleanliness, but he had to discover how bad he was.

W.A.S. "God sending his own Son ... and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh". Romans 8:3.

J.T. Exactly. Peter had discovered his sinfulness; he was the leper in a moral sense. He has to learn not only that he is sinful but that the Lord Jesus has dealt with that state at the cross; not only that, but he has to go to the priest and do what Moses ordained, that is he has to understand not only the death of Christ but the presence of the Spirit here -- the log of oil. The log of oil is an

important feature of what Moses enjoined. Where the blood had been put, the oil is put -- on the tip of the right ear, on the thumb of the right hand, and on the great toe of the right foot, and the remainder is put upon the head of him that is to be cleansed. That means that my intelligence, my work, and my walk are anointed. The blood is put for relief of conscience, but the oil is put that I may be for God. That is what Moses enjoined. So the Lord sends the leper to the priest.

Ques. What point had Peter reached as set forth in the second instance -- the cleansed leper?

J.T. I think it is that Peter is taken out of his business and set up in relation to God. Then the great thing is subjection to the Lord -- to learn from Him. Thus, after we come through the process that Moses commanded, we are set up before God, and then in the next incident we find the Lord is in desert places and praying. I have to learn everything from Him. I am set up before God in following what Moses ordained. I have the Spirit; the oil is put on the right ear as well as on the thumb and the toe, and the remainder of it is put on the head. The leper is set up before God in spiritual dignity. It says of the Lord, "He.. was about in the desert places and praying". That was what brought in "the power of the Lord", which "was present to heal". If I am to be in the service of God in power it is by this praying in desert places. When one is in desert places he is not giving place to the flesh; he has God. The Lord was found there and He was praying; He was dependent upon God, and the power of God was present to heal.

Rem. "So then I myself with the mind serve God's law". Romans 7:25. Is that the thought?

J.T. Yes, and Romans 8 shows how that is done; it is by the Spirit. The cleansing of the leper means that I am set up before God in the power of the

anointing. The oil is on my head as well as on my ear, my thumb, and my foot. I have dignity on my head, that is the thought. Now the next thought is the Lord is a model; He is about in desert places and praying (verse 16).

Rem. You made a remark about the remainder of the oil.

J.T. Yes, that is what is put on the head. There is plenty of dignity with God; it is an infinite supply.

F.J.F. Would you think then that a cleansed person would find himself in a desert place?

J.T. Well, that is the thought. You do not gratify the flesh. The Lord is leading the way, "He withdrew himself, and was about in the desert places", and in that place He, as it is said, was praying, and the result was that the power of God was present to heal. Now as set up by the Spirit in the presence of God, the next thing is, can I be of service to others? If I am to be, I shall have to maintain the desert and prayer. It is on the principle of dependence.

R.S. He was the dependent man in Luke 3. We read, Jesus also being baptised and praying.

J.T. The time of baptism is surely a time for prayer. The Lord is the model for us. As cleansed now and set up in the Spirit I am in desert places, I am dependent on God; and the result of prayer is that the power of God is present to heal.

F.J.F. I suppose the next step is are we ready to be taught?

J.T. He was teaching we read. He marks out the path that He trod. "In the desert God will teach thee". (Hymn 76). He was in the desert praying to God, then the next thing is that the Lord has power to forgive sins. There is such a thing as that even amongst the saints; "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them", John 20:23. The Lord had power to forgive sins. Here the evidence of it

was that the man was able to carry his bed and to go to his house.

Ques. How would that work out today?

J.T. I think it works out in regard to a believer, in connection with his circumstances. He will now take them up on the principle of faith. He is in a position to regulate everything. He dominates the position now -- in other words he carries his bed. He knows God, and that He is supreme, and he comes to his house in that spirit. Then the next one is Levi. He was a tax-gatherer and he made a great entertainment for the Lord. He was making money, and that is a test, but the Lord calls him from the tax-office. He says, 'I am not going to be held by money', and so he left all, rose up, and followed Him. It is a feature of the chapter that the followers leave all.

F.J.F. It says, "After these things". That means that the other incidents must precede morally.

J.T. Now we arrive at the new bottles. But then this chapter is to show you how the new bottles are formed. We are on the up-line -- each incident marks progress. Here is a man Levi sitting at his desk, he has not bad business; the taxes must come, and they do come, and of course he gets a large slice of them. But he left all and followed Jesus. He is following on the man who is carrying his bed, but he is not controlled by his desk.

W.A.S. This is a greater test in a way than the other.

J.T. It is.

J.G. How fascinating business is to us naturally!

J.T. A tax-gatherer's one suggests a very successful one.

Rem. You could use the business for the Lord.

J.T. In Zacchaeus, we have a man that could be trusted with money. He could give half of it away, and the Lord does not say a word to him about

leaving his business. He recognises him as one of the family of faith -- a son of Abraham.

F.J.F. There is something majestic about Levi's call. "After these things he went forth".

J.T. "And saw a tax-gatherer ... and said to him, Follow me".

W.A.S. That is the same man as you have traced down the chapter.

J.T. The same man, I think. And it says, "Having left all, rising up, he followed him". And Levi made a great feast for Him in his house. He must have had means to do that. He was devoting his means to the Lord. That is the use he made of them, and then he says, 'I am going to have the people present that the Lord would like me to have -- tax-gatherers'. It says, "There was a great crowd of tax-gatherers and others", and they were at the table with Him. He made no attempt to put on a religious appearance in inviting the religious people to the feast.

F.J.F. I suppose, although we cannot have Him today there are always disciples we can have.

W.A.S. Would you say that this action of Levi sprang from affection?

J.T. I believe it did. It was very beautiful that Levi should devote what he had to the entertainment of the Lord. It must have cost him a considerable amount, and, as I said, he made no attempt to put on a religious appearance in inviting the Pharisees -- the religious people, but "there was a great crowd of tax-gatherers and others". But the scribes and Pharisees murmured at His disciples, saying, "Why do ye eat and drink with tax-gatherers and sinners?" and Jesus said, "They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick".

R.S. You spoke of Zacchaeus. What is the difference between Levi and Zacchaeus?

J.T. Zacchaeus is typically a son of Abraham.

He comes in Luke in this setting. What is said of him is that "he ran before, and climbed up into a sycamore tree to see him", Luke 19:4 for "he sought to see Jesus who he was". Luke 19:3 And the Lord says, "Make haste and come down; for today I must abide at thy house. And he made haste and came down and received him joyfully". Luke 19:6 Then he makes this statement to the Lord: "Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken anything from any man by false accusation I restore him fourfold". Luke 19:8 He was a son of Abraham. God was operative in each of them, but in chapter 5 I think you see a leading up on the lines of moral sequence, until you reach the new bottles -- the new bottles holding new wine. I think this chapter is to show you how these bottles are formed. From verse 18 it is a question of the house, not of the business. The palsied man who entered into his house was carrying his bed. Levi is a step in advance of that. His house is where the Lord is entertained, and to which he invites the kind of persons whom the Lord came to seek.

J.G. It is a crowd of the right material that is found there, such as He had come to seek. It is a suitable house for Him then.

Rem. I do not think we are very much up to getting people into the house whom the Lord would like.

J.T. I think that is what this chapter teaches, so we have to consider whom the Lord would have; if we would have Him, we must consider whom the Lord would like. They are not to please us, but we are to please Him.

Rem. Sinful ones -- that they may be cleansed -- is that the point?

J.T. It is so here. The Lord says, "I am not come to call righteous persons but sinful ones to repentance". I have no doubt there would be a good many who would repent under Levi's roof.

The point is to get the sinful ones under the influence of the light where they would repent.

F.M. The result of this is that we have children of the bride-chamber?

J.T. Yes, that is how the truth in this chapter develops. The Lord says, "Can ye make the children of the bride-chamber fast while the bridegroom is with them?" The mention of the bridegroom lays the basis for much -- what indeed is opened up in Paul's ministry.

F.J.F. If He was here, it would be a time of feasting with us.

Ques. Would you say that we are in a time of feasting now?

J.T. Well, we are in a time of fasting, for the Lord is no longer with us. Then He proceeds to the new bottles. "No man puts new wine into old skins, otherwise the new wine will burst the skins; and the skins will be destroyed". Skins were bottles, of course -- vessels made of skin for carrying wine. The Lord indicates that things have to be wholly new. Christianity is an entirely new conception. It is characterised wholly by what is new. In the current profession it is linked with what is old. The teaching of our chapter is to lead believers to accept what is new and to reflect what is old. Christianity is a wholly new thing; the new wine must not be put into old bottles. The strength and vigour that marked Christians at the beginning could not be contained by the old principles of Judaism; nor can the present activities of the Holy Spirit be made to fit into modern religious principles.

Pages 207 - 330 -- "The Witness of God" Indianapolis, December, 1926 (Volume 86).

THE WITNESS OF GOD - CREATION, LAW AND PROPHETS

Acts 14:14 - 17; Romans 1:19,20; Matthew 11:8 - 15

J.T. The book of Revelation emphasises the idea of witness -- "the testimony of Jesus Christ", Revelation 1:2 "the testimony of Jesus", Revelation 1:9 etc. -- and I thought it a feature of the truth that would be profitable for us to consider. The Lord in His address to the last assembly, Laodicea, speaks of Himself as "the faithful and true Witness", Revelation 3:14 as if He would call attention to the idea of witness. We may be enabled of the Lord to cover in these readings the various features of the witness that God has given of Himself -- first, to see the place the physical creation has in it, then the law and the prophets, then John the baptist, then the Lord Himself, then the Spirit, and finally the assembly. The idea of a witness on God's behalf is connected with all these.

A.F.M. Does testimony suppose that sin has come in, and that God sets to work to render testimony as to Himself in different ways until, finally, you have the great display of all in the city? Is that what was in your mind?

J.T. Yes, I thought of the expression in the first passage read, "He left not himself without witness".

A.N. Do you distinguish between revelation and witness?

J.T. When you come to revelation, God Himself is before us. I thought that as we reach John's gospel we may see a relation between the two.

A.N. Does the knowledge of God go with revelation?

J.T. Well, the knowledge of His nature involves revelation, but there was that which was "known of God" before. Perhaps you have something on your mind about it.

A.N. No, I only thought that when we come to Christ we get a distinct advance on witness as it is spoken of in the Old Testament.

J.T. When we come to John's gospel we may be able to see that; only the mediatorial question enters into that, which the Lord may help us on at this time. The Lord's position here involved God's presence, but in a mediatorial way, so that it is not now any question of any particular feature of God, but of God Himself. It is important to bear in mind that while the Mediator is said to be "the man Christ Jesus", Romans 5:15. John 1 and Hebrews 1 show that God has approached men in One who is equal with Himself. The previous witnesses were to certain attributes of God; in Christ we have God Himself.

The first passage read (Acts 14) alludes to His goodness. Creation witnessed to His goodness rising sovereignly above man's sin -- "He left not himself without witness", giving rain and fruitful seasons, filling men's hearts with food and gladness. There was a witness to His goodness, but then in Romans 1 we have His eternal power, which is another thing.

A.F.M. And divinity -- the two things, would there be?

J.T. But not yet God Himself. In Hebrews 1 Christ is said to be the "effulgence of his glory and the expression of his substance" Hebrews 1:3 -- what God is substantially, so to say. The knowledge of that waited the coming in of the Son. I hope we may be able to look at that later.

H.G. Your first thought is in the main that there is an evidence, a public evidence, of One who is in control, and that He is good and powerful. It is not

exactly a question of what He is in His nature, but One supreme, marked by goodness and power.

J.T. That is what I thought might occupy us in this reading. The Pagans worshipped various deities, to whom they attributed certain things, but Scripture calls attention to God as the Creator, as the Author of the universe. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". Genesis 1:1. Moses called attention to that, so that what men enjoyed constantly (their hearts being filled with food and gladness) might be connected with its Author, its Source.

A.N. I suppose the two testimonies of Psalm 19 would embody your last two points: "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth his handiwork". Psalm 19:1. Then it Says "In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun", Psalm 19:4 and "There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard". Psalm 19:3 There is also the testimony of the Scriptures, "the law of the Lord", etc., spoken of in the latter part of the psalm. Psalm 19:7.

J.T. The testimony of the Scriptures is the second great thing. They prophesied. What is said about them is that "all the prophets and the law prophesied until John". You do not get any prophesying in the case of the physical things, but nevertheless there is a witness. God had not brought in the whole testimony but He had a witness to Himself, enough to remind men that even in their apostate condition, as turned away from Him, He was good: the rain coming down and the fruitful seasons. The rain coming down denoted His supremacy, and the fruitful seasons denoted the power of life in what is immediately within man's own range.

B.T.F. Would you say that all applies now?

J.T. Every witness remains. God has not withdrawn the witnesses; they remain.

H.G. It is important, although most of us are in the light of the revelation of God, in days like these

that our souls should be anchored and established in God, even in His creational power and glory, because today God is being given up universally.

A.E.H. Is witness more to meet existing conditions, whereas revelation was a moral foundation for the bringing in of what was new?

J.T. That is right. Man was the offspring of God, as Paul cites in speaking to the Athenians, but in order that we should have offspring in a permanent spiritual sense we must have revelation. Revelation is the basis of all that is formative in the new universe, which is spiritual, but God is also connected with the first universe. It is important to bear this in mind. He is the Author of it. It says that He stretched out the heavens and founded the earth, and formed man in it (Isaiah 45:12), showing how the matter stood -- the universe created, the heavens stretched out, the earth founded, and man formed in it, man being God's offspring; so that God stood connected with that, and does stand connected with it. 1 Corinthians brings in the order of it now in that the head of the woman is man, Christ is Head of every man, and the Head of Christ is God. All that stands in connection with the present universe, so that nature teaches us, but in order to have a moral universe we must have the revelation of God.

A.F.M. Do you think that a heathen might observe the heavens and the earth and see in them the expression of the power and goodness of God, and his conscience might even get awakened, but there is nothing formative in that? He would need light, the light of the gospel, in view of what you were saying.

J.T. Yes. The book of Job is intended to develop specifically what was there in the way of witness for man in the physical system. But there was no "new man", renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created him.

A.L. Are not the two points illustrated in 2 Corinthians 4:6. "God who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts"? Are these the two things, God in the one case acting in power, and in the other presenting Himself in our hearts? It is not that He causes something to shine, but He Himself shines. Is that the point?

J.T. Exactly. He has shined Himself.

A.L. Not simply 'commanded' light.

J.T. In the first instance it was a command and, of course, it was physical light that came in; but now it is God Himself shining, so Hebrews 1 is that Christ is the effulgence of His glory, the expression of His substance.

A.L. But in 2 Corinthians does it go a little further, in that God Himself shines in our hearts?

J.T. Yes; and it is for the shining forth of the knowledge of God in the face of Jesus. That is the present time.

G.W.H-n. Hebrews 1 touches the first point: "Thou ... hast founded the earth, and works of thy hands are the heavens". Hebrews 1:10. That is before revelation.

J.B-t. Is it not important to see that creation itself, as the work of God's hands, maintains a witness to God's goodness, which the enemy has always sought to undermine and overthrow in the hearts of men, and heathendom would be the result of the overthrow of that by the enemy, would it not?

J.T. Romans 1 shows how that they honoured Him not, but turned to worship the images of men, birds, four-footed beasts, and reptiles of the earth. Satan succeeded in eradicating from man's mind the true thought of God, but the witness was there nevertheless. It was there constantly before men, and it is there yet.

A.F.M. Referring to Psalm 19 again, this testimony was rendered to the ends of the earth. Speaking of the sun, nothing was hid from the heat of it. It

would show the universal character of the testimony of creation.

A.N. But in Romans 1 the result is more in a negative way: "they are without excuse". Romans 1:20.

B.T.F. Would you say that this witness speaks now, not only to heathendom, but also to Christendom?

J.T. Of course, we take account of it, and we give thanks to God. As we partake of our food, we give thanks to God for it, but there was a time when men were wholly dependent on this witness in regard to God.

W.B. Romans 10 appropriates Psalm 19 in a different way, in regard of the testimony and of Christ.

J.T. Quite. It makes allusion to the gospel, but when you come to Job -- and no one can, I think, understand the bearing of the testimony of the physical universe unless he understands Job -- that book is particularly intended to show the bearing of the physical universe as a witness. The three friends of Job make little of it. The first alludes to what he had seen; the second to tradition, and the third to experience, to the importance of learning, "the secrets of wisdom": Job 11:6 but when the Lord Himself speaks to Job He refers to the creation, and He speaks to him out of the whirlwind.

The position from which He speaks is to be noted. It was directing Job from the things that his friends were speaking of, and what he himself used in answer to them, to the positive thing that was before his eyes every day, and so God Himself goes over the features of the physical creation and He brings Job down. This shows the power of the testimony. God does not go outside the witness He had already brought forward. He keeps to that witness, showing that it was sufficient, lest anyone might assume that God was unfair or unreasonable. He keeps to the witness He

had furnished, and that witness convicts Job. It is important to take that into account, for men "charge God foolishly"

A.F.M. The goodness of God leads to repentance. Job lived in a time before the law was brought in, in the time when God was speaking through creation. His goodness was seen in it.

J.T. God Himself was in measure seen in the witness, because Job says: "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear; but now mine eye seeth thee", Job 42:5. It was what could be seen of Him; what was "known of God" was brought to bear on him by God Himself, so it was effective.

G.A.T. There was no other testimony but creation.