Genesis 7:11 - 16; John 20:19 - 23; 1 Corinthians 5:12, 13

J.T. It is in mind to consider what is characteristically within, that is, in a spiritual sense. Genesis 7, the first scripture read, conveys this idea, and indicates that what is within in our dispensation involves limitations by God. It is said that Jehovah shut Noah in. Noah himself only being mentioned as shut in would suggest that he is viewed as operating, and that the sphere of his operations is determined by God. The Lord, in answering the enquiries of His disciples, after He rose and before going to heaven, as to whether it was at this time that He would restore the kingdom to Israel, said, "It is not yours to know times or seasons, which the Father has placed in his own authority" (Acts 1:7). He had been speaking about the Spirit as the promise of the Father, which they were to await; so that the Lord in Acts is evidently taking up the position of operating in an area allotted to Him by the Father. The Father had reserved in His own power the times and seasons, and Acts shows that the Lord was accepting that, and that His present operations are according to the divine determination. Hence in the type it would seem as if this is in mind in Jehovah shutting Noah in the ark until the cover was lifted off. Its having rested on the mountains of Ararat refers also in the type to the faith period dependent on the Spirit. The dove is sent out from Noah and returns to him. Later he sends her out and he now has the evidence from her in the olive leaf brought in at evening that the waters are low on the earth. Finally he sends her out and she returns no more. Then he takes off the

cover of the ark, which would imply that he can now see everything.

John 20:29 contemplates that we are in the period of faith, "blessed they who have not seen and have believed". In Acts 1, the cloud received the Lord out of the sight of the disciples. The faith period began. In this connection the ark represents life, having all the varieties of life, but they are inside. Noah is shut in, but with all the varieties of life, so it would seem as if we should consider first this thought of the gradations of life. The capacity of the ark is specified in chapter 6, as if it were large enough to include all the varieties of life. The suggestion is, therefore, that the Lord for the moment is occupied on those lines. When we come to John 20, we have the highest grade of life; it is by the breath of Christ. The status is seen in the disciples being regarded as His brethren: "Go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God" (verse 17). Breathing into them would be in keeping with these great relationships, and would imply the highest order of life. In Genesis 1 and in the gospels and epistles, we have life in a graded way, all seen, of course, in christians.

It is the time of life, in that sense, through faith, as John says, "believing ye might have life in his name" (John 20:31). It would seem as if we are to be conversant with the various features of life. Noah shut in is typical of Christ engaged in this way; presently He will take on other things.

N.L. In suggesting that they all went to Noah, does that imply that every phase or grade of life responds to Christ?

J.T. That is what comes out. The references are striking, "every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them

alive with thee: they shall be male and female. Of fowl after their kind, and of the cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the ground after its kind, two of each shall go in to thee, to keep them alive" (Genesis 6:19, 20). In Genesis 7:2, "Of all clean beasts thou shalt take to thee by sevens", and in chapter 7: 8 "Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowl, and of everything that creeps on the ground, there came two and two unto Noah into the ark". Again in verses 13 - 16, "On the same day went Noah, and Shem and Ham and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; they, and every beast after its kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth after its kind, and all fowl after its kind -- every bird of every wing. And they went to Noah, into the ark, two and two of all flesh, in which was the breath of life. And they that came, came male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him. And Jehovah shut him in".

C.H.H. Is the thought that in the faith period divine operations take place in this living way?

J.T. That is what I was thinking -- all in relation to life, animal life particularly, for vegetable life is not mentioned; it would be a millennial thought.

F.W. Is the suggestion that all spiritual life is held in relation to Christ?

J.T. Yes; all would die otherwise. John's gospel has in mind to stress that it is on the principle of faith -- life is on the principle of faith, and the Lord says, "Blessed they who have not seen and have believed". So John says that he wrote of the signs that Jesus did, "that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life in his name" (John 20:31). All outside of faith is in death. Paul says, "Having

judged this: that one died for all, then all have died; and he died for all, that they who live should no longer live to themselves, but to him who died for them and has been raised" (2 Corinthians 5:14, 15). "So if any one be in Christ, there is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold all things have become new" (verse 17). This is a limited state of things, but life is there; the preservation of life is carried through to the millennial day.

F.W. Would the limited circumstances in which they were in the ark suggest typically that these conditions would promote faith and so help them? I am thinking now of those who would be intelligent -- Noah, his wife, his sons, and his sons' wives.

J.T. They are represented in that way. "On the same day went Noah, and Shem and Ham and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark" (verse 3), as if the family of Noah, the persons specified, go in intelligently. The others are said to go to Noah, as if there is a lower grade of life contemplated, and it is important that it should have an object, that it should be governed by an object.

I.L. What is the force of verse 19 of the previous chapter, where Noah is instructed to bring them in?

J.T. I just read that to show the different phases presented. Bringing in would be Noah's part, but finally he is attractive as in the family position inside; he is there in relation to his family. Hebrews 11:7 says he "prepared an ark for the saving of his house", which is not as large a thought as the beasts and cattle and fowls. I suppose the idea of the house is abstract, referring to the saints viewed as of him, but the others need an object, to be put under control, that is, the lower forms of life; young

believers growing up in these forms of life are drawn to Christ.

J.L. Noah was commanded to keep them alive. It would seem as though Noah was in the ark to keep them alive.

J.T. Yes. The more we look into it, the more striking are the variations. They appear to be repetitions, but they are variations to bring out every phase of the position, and one great phase is that Noah is an attractive object to life, to those who live, because they came to him into the ark.

W.H.W. Is this seen in John's gospel where the disciples say, "Where abidest thou" and the Lord says, "Come and see"?

J.T. That is the principle of John's gospel, "Come and see". It is a characteristic word in his gospel; and applied now, the question is, what is there to see? Luke does not stress that side, there it is more the approach of God to men in grace, whereas John contemplates the work of God in the saints, and implies what is attractive. Life is always attractive, even in physical things, so that "Come and see" is a characteristic word. Nathanael represents one who is moved by it. As he came, the Lord saw him. As one invited to come, he may have thought it optional whether he does or not, but it is not optional. If he remains unmoved he is spiritually dead. A subject of the work of God will come, and in coming he is under the surveillance of the Lord. Nathanael came, and as he moved towards Christ, as He saw him coming to Him, the Lord names him. Life is marked by movement; and it is named as it is in movement.

C.H.H. What is in mind in the lower orders of life mentioned?

J.T. We have here beasts, cattle, creeping things and fowls. It would seem as if "beasts"

are distinguished. Applying the thought generally to christians, it would allude to lower forms of life, what appeared in the early stages of the work of God, and then development. We have in the New Testament vegetable life introduced: "the fruit of the Spirit" is such an allusion.

L.I. Would you say a little as to the varieties mentioned here, such as creeping things, fowl, beasts?

J.T. Creeping things, I suppose, represent a phase in us, not to be despised, though certainly not so attractive as the highest orders of life; not of the same interest as a fowl that can fly in the heavens, nor beasts as seen in Proverbs 30:30. We read in Isaiah 40:31 of how they who wait on the Lord "shall mount up with wings as eagles". The creeping things cannot mount up, but still there is evidence of life there, there is in the designation the idea of number and getting together. It is just the great general thought of graduations of life, all of which are of God. The repetition here shows what interest God has in these forms of life.

F.W.W. Do we get these various features put together by heaven in Peter's sheet?

J.T. It is the counterpart of this, bringing out the idea of a vessel as we have had it, bringing the thought down to ourselves. Peter likened the vessel to a great sheet descending from heaven to earth, and drawn up again. So we have to consider that these creatures represent ideas, forms of life to be carried through in us. They take concrete form in christians. Vegetable life is not mentioned in the ark, because it is not the time for it, but still in the New Testament we have reference to Genesis 1 in that sense, because we have the different gradations of life in that chapter.

F.W.W. Are we to take account of these various features in our local assemblies?

J.T. That is the point to come to, and not to despise any evidence of God's work. Take Nicodemus -- he could not even understand new birth. His is certainly a low form, but the principle of life was there; he remains in the council, but as in it, he says a word for Christ. He neglects association with Christ while Christ is alive here on earth, he missed that great privilege, but identifies himself with Christ in death and brings a large quantity of myrrh and aloes for His burial. You can see he is not a person of Mary Magdalene's type. Mary Magdalene comes in immediately after him in John's gospel, and although she is not much ahead in regard to Christ's resurrection, she is far ahead of him as to affection, and comes into the full thought of the highest grade of life, whereas there is no evidence that Nicodemus did.

A.M.H. Do these lower grades of life suggest persons in whom the mixed condition is particularly prominent, whereas the highest grades would indicate the work of God being more in evidence; but we have to take account of every grade?

J.T. That is the way we may see the truth worked out in John, and in the ark here you will observe the small measure of the window on the top which would afford a view heavenward. There are storeys in the ark; I suppose the upper would refer to the highest grade of life, finished a cubit above.

A.M.H. What is in your mind in the reference to a cubit above?

J.T. People came to the Lord to hear Him in great numbers during His service here, but when we come to the ends of the gospels, we are greatly reduced in numbers, and in Acts 1 it is 120 names,

meaning, I believe, that life in variety was there. We need to have that before us, whether we belong to finished products, or whether we belong to the large numbers, some of which are perhaps questionable as believers.

T.R.H. Referring to the lower forms of life, Paul would not omit at Corinth the weak brother for whom Christ died.

H.S. The apostle also speaks of the least esteemed in the assembly, (1 Corinthians 6:4).

J.T. They are characteristically of the assembly, so they have that status. The Corinthians were honoured, the apostle is seeking to lead them to appreciate their spiritual dignity. They were babes, but babes in Christ. That gives them a peculiar status, and it is a remarkable thing that the least esteemed in the assembly is able to judge. It seems as if the assembly is preserved and protected in its dignity in these references; those who belong to the assembly have a dignity that does not belong to others.

A.M.H. Whichever form of life they represent, they are all true to the death of Christ in the fact they are in the ark, in the assembly.

J.T. I should think that is confirmed in the fact that the creatures move to Noah; they all move. Noah bringing them in indicated his influence over them; on the other hand, God wrought in Noah so that he becomes an object to them, and they come to him into the ark. What a wonderful thing to think of that movement, to think of the state of men generally, and these creatures coming to Noah into the ark!

Rem. Does this connect with the scripture in John 6:44, "No one can come to me except the Father who has sent me draw him"?

J.T. I think it does. It is the work of God. John 6 shows that many who came to Christ went back and walked no more with Him. That is the principle of apostasy, and the Lord said, "Will ye also go away?" Peter says to Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast words of life eternal; and we have believed and known that thou art the holy one of God". The disciples were reduced in numbers. John 6 is a reducing ministry, therefore He brings in the Father's work, which can be seen in type in these creatures which move to Noah into the ark. I think the dove is the most exalted feature, representing the Spirit. Noah sent her out from him and she went out, and returned, and he took her back to him into the ark. She was a beautiful link between what was in the ark and Noah.

J.D. Do we get the movements of life illustrated in John 9, in the blind man who has found Christ as his object?

J.T. That is another view of the working out of life under pressure. Intelligence is seen there developing under pressure. They cast him out; he is an outcast, but his position implies he has been under pressure. Pressure has a great deal to do with refinement and development. The Lord found him after he was cast out. It is another side of the position, but shows the feature of life. The Lord asked him if he believed on the Son of God.

Rem. These animals came to Noah into the ark, and God shut them in.

J.T. God shut Noah in. What should be noted is the divine determination as to the sphere of divine operations today; the Lord Jesus takes a lower place in these, so that God might be over everything. When the disciples asked about the restoration of the kingdom to Israel and He said, "It is not yours

to know". He was lifting them out of the realm of Israel and Israel's hopes, saying the Father has kept that time in His own authority. It was for them to be occupied with the Spirit, and the Spirit's day, and parallel with this the day of life in its variety.

C.H.H. Would you explain the exclusiveness of the position?

J.T. Jehovah shut him in. I think Noah represents the operator at this juncture, he is the man who does things. He comes in after Enoch who goes up to heaven, but Noah is a type of Christ, as doing things: the great Operator. The Christ is to dwell in our hearts by faith (Ephesians 3:17).

A.M.H. Would this thought preclude the idea of the Spirit of God working in relation to any other families at the present time?

J.T. I was thinking that. We are restricted, but it is a restriction of dignity, and we are occupied with the greatest things; the greatest Persons, of course, but the greatest things; the highest order of life.

F.J.F. The whole position as seen in Noah in the ark is potential in view of development by the power of the Spirit.

J.T. That is the thing. We should greatly stress the power of the Spirit. Our Lord said to His disciples, "Await the promise of the Father", that is, the Spirit.

F.J.F. Would you say that the faith found in the coming families is preserved in the ark? I was thinking of Paul and what he said of the twelve tribes instantly serving God day and night.

J.T. I should think the ark contained what was needed for the establishment of a new world. Israel had not come into evidence yet, but applying it to the New Testament, the twelve tribes would imply the thought of Israel carried through. Every divine

thought is to be carried through in the intelligent affections of those who form the assembly. Christ is operating within those limits.

T.R.H. In keeping with that Peter remarks that there were eight souls saved in the ark. Would that be a suggestion that there was potentially what would inhabit eternity?

J.T. Yes. You are stressing the numeral eight, which goes beyond the complete period of seven.

Ques. Is there a link between these creatures in Genesis and what is said of them in Leviticus as to clean and unclean?

J.T. Uncleanness in our passage is not like leprosy. The creature is usable in the divine realm, it is a question of being usable. A horse is useful, but not acceptable for a sacrifice. It is a question, I think, of the aspects in which christians are viewed. "Unclean, unclean", as in the leper's mouth is a different thought; he is not fit to be inside the camp, and that takes us to our scripture in 1 Corinthians, "For what have I to do with judging those outside also? ye, do not ye judge them that are within? But those without God judges. Remove the wicked person from amongst yourselves".

We are viewed in this epistle as in assembly in responsibility, and there is the without and the within. We should see that within is pure and holy. John 20 has in mind the highest abstract thought of our position, but here in 1 Corinthians we are viewed in a mixed condition, as has been remarked. We are men and women in the public assembly, but there is the within and the without. It is not so refined or exalted a within as John 20 presents, which is the abstract thought; there is no discrepancy contemplated in the disciples, in the first coming of Christ amongst the disciples in that chapter.

Rem. Does the word to Philadelphia run parallel with this, the evidence of life: "Thou hast a little power, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name"?

J.T. Yes. It would allude to the power operative in the assembly, as over against dead forms of religious services; also love for Christ, underlying faithfulness.

A.M.H. Referring to 1 Corinthians 5, does this figure of the ark help us to see how deadly it would be to allow any uncleanness? Intimacy of contact should make for spirituality, and intimacy of contact belongs to the saints.

J.T. Quite so. This is a striking chapter as dealing with this matter of within and without. They had one in their midst who was unfit for fellowship, and they were not humbled about it, but Paul prescribes what they are to do, that is, to remove the man from amongst themselves, and to do it in power, with the apostle's spirit present. They "being gathered together, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ", to deliver the guilty man "to Satan for destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus". That was what they were to do. Then in the last verse, "Remove the wicked person from amongst yourselves". In verses 9 to 12 a list of persons is given, as to which he said, "I have written to you in the epistle not to mix with fornicators; ... For what have I to do with judging those outside also?" That is, he indicates the class of persons outside, and then says God judges them, showing that it was never intended that those forming the assembly should be reformers. We have to leave the world to God, we cannot reform it. God never intended to reform it, He will judge it, He has already judged it in principle, but He holds it still in reconciliation in

view of the gospel, (Romans 11:15). Referring to the inside, he says, "Do not ye judge them that are within?" That means we should judge what is inside.

A.M.H. You are not reforming there, but maintaining what we really are.

C.A.I. In Revelation the saints are said to wash their robes to go into the city.

J.T. That is a good connection; Revelation 22:14 "Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have right to the tree of life, and that they should go in by the gates into the city. Without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one that loves and makes a lie". We have the inside and outside distinguished and guarded right through. Earlier it says, as to the city (Revelation 21:26, 27), "And they shall bring the glory and the honour of the nations to it. And nothing common, nor that maketh an abomination and a lie, shall at all enter into it; but those only who are written in the book of life of the Lamb". Taking the thing in a cursory way, there ought to be an impression with all of us of the great privilege of being inside the divine realm, where the varieties of life are displayed, all under Christ; God limiting us, and Christ being with us in that position, until the cover is lifted (Genesis 8:13). In the meantime, the blessed ministrations of the Spirit, as seen in the dove, bring us first-hand knowledge of everything. As soon as life is evident in view of the millennium, that is vegetable life, the dove brings in the witness of it. We know thus that the millennium is near. In the meantime it is the period of faith.

C.H.H. Is the obligation put on the saints to maintain the position within, in suitability to the sphere of life there?

J.T. That is the way it is presented, I think. The apostle had set them up in that way, and it is remarkable the attention that was paid to them. Paul pays remarkable attention to these Corinthians, different from any other assembly in certain respects, as regards his love for them. He tells them, "Ye are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read of all men, being manifested to be Christ's epistle ministered by us, written, not with ink, but the Spirit of the living God; not on stone tables, but on fleshy tables of the heart" (2 Corinthians 3:2, 3). It is a remarkable tribute to the Corinthians as to the place they had in his affections, for that is what he means. Wherever the brethren were talking to him, he would refer to the Corinthians, yet they were guilty of having a wicked man among them, and others, too (2 Corinthians 12:21). So he says, "Do not ye judge them that are within?"

Rem. The raven did not return to the ark: what is the suggestion in that?

J.T. The raven is not to be despised. I think it refers, or may be applied, to young christians who have but little spiritual instinct. Noah sent it out -- it was in the ark, and had a place there -- but it did not return. It is a question of its tastes as over against the dove.

W.H.W. Does John 20 teach us what we have inside? The Lord there says, "I ascend to my Father".

J.T. John is building inwardly (see 2 Samuel 5:9), which implies getting nearer to God, but it is within, as well as inward. Inward is the direction, within is the place, the place of seclusion. Then the outlook is ascension; the ark, as a type, has the same thought -- lower, second and third storeys. It is a highly refined thought, and although the brethren of Christ are very numerous -- yet the thought is not

numbers so much as quality -- and we are His brethren, in fact it is a question of quality. Noah and his family are called few, that is, eight souls.

I.L. What do we gather from the statement, "But those without God judges"?

J.T. I think it indicates who they are in the list he gives here, and really covers what the world is, characteristically. There are, of course, other features, but in general this is to show the working of sin; wherever it works, it is morally outside. He is dealing with what is in the outside position, fornicators, idolaters. These all represent sin working in its most vicious form; others may be less vicious, but all come under the same heading, and are outside.

C.A.I. God is not dealing with men in general, or nations as such, but confining His activities to the assembly in testimony.

J.T. God is over all, of course, but in the present economy, involving the assembly, He is dealing with what is within. This administration is through and in Christ. What is without is left with God, so that international matters are with God. We are not having to do with them except in our prayers. Our outlook is heavenly.

C.A.I. Being God's assembly, it is what God has provided for Himself at this time.

J.T. There is God's universal government, as Creator: in this He deals with all. But in Christ He has come in grace and rules directly in the assembly. The Lord Himself in the beginning of the Acts takes this place. God has reserved to His own authority times and seasons, and connects the saints with the period of the Spirit. Thus Christ is not governing the world now, but God the Father.

C.F.I. The Lord is not occupying Himself with the world, nor with the nations, but with what is within.

E.B.McC. Would the thought of 'without' take in 1 Corinthians 5:5?

J.T. There you are dealing with one who is within, but about to be put under discipline. That is another thing. "To deliver him ... to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus". He is in the realm of divine judgment whilst in the hands of Satan, which is a very solemn thing. For the time, he is without, with recovery in view.

E.B.McC. What is the thought in the spirit being saved in the day of the Lord Jesus?

J.T. The spirit is over against the flesh, but his spirit is himself really. The Lord said, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit" and to the thief He said "To-day shalt thou be with me in paradise". It was Himself -- the thief was to be with Him.

A.M.H. How far does delivering to Satan apply today?

J.T. I do not think we can undertake it formally, although it is the principle governing the position when discipline is executed.

A.M.H. Would you be rather concerned if no discipline from the Lord followed on the action of the brethren?

J.T. Quite so. The Lord would act to make the assembly's judgment effective.

A.H-w. Is life according to God preserved only in the assembly?

J.T. That is the teaching in these passages. This man, in 1 Corinthians 5, was evidently a christian, in fact he is presented in that light, and you could hardly put him into the category of those

who are characteristically without, but he is under discipline.

A.H-w. His life is preserved through discipline.

J.T. That is right: the work of God in him was submerged by the working of the flesh, and Satan is employed to break up the flesh.

F.W. The man is not put out into the world, he really belongs to the assembly, but is to be removed from their company, and is in Satan's hands only for a time.

J.T. That is right; Satan being an instrument for the breaking up of the flesh.

C.A.I. Is the thought in John 20 then that life is stressed rather than the place or position where the disciples were? He came to where the disciples were -- I was thinking of the evidence of life in the disciples.

J.T. The passage shows that they were in principle living spiritually, that the doors were shut for fear of the Jews; they had that fear, which would mean the legally religious element. It is mentioned to show that they represent the full result of the Lord's ministry. They had judged the Jewish element. There is no discrepancy at all mentioned here, so that the Lord could breathe into them. He confirms what is there potentially in breathing into them, that they are capable of such a life as that, the life which is His. The highest order of life is Christ's life as Man.

E.B.McC. The names of those without are given, but you would not include among them the man to be put away. They are without; that is hardly the place we assign to them.

J.T. I do not think this contemplates that at all. In our minds, we have to keep persons under discipline as a separate class, assuming they are real christians like the man here. So with Ananias and

Sapphira; there can be no doubt that they were real christians, and what we are saying is evidenced in the fact that they were buried by the young men present; their christianity is protected, but not their guilt. We should protect the work of God in a man, for it is pure gold; but we cannot have fellowship with believers who sin until they judge themselves as specially enjoined in verse 11.

T.R.H. "That the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus". Would that involve recovery?

J.T. Quite so, and he was recovered quickly, more quickly than the Corinthians recognised. It is important to be able to see the evidence of the work of God especially in circumstances that obscure it.

S.L. "As the living Father has sent me and I live on account of the Father, he also who eats me shall live also on account of me" (John 6:57).

J.T. That is an allusion to this high order of life, as also John 14:19, "because I live ye also shall live". It is a beautiful thought. We are bound up with Him in one bundle of life.

C.A.I. Would you say that a certain state is involved, and that His breathing into them is the result?

J.T. Yes. They are qualified for such an order of life as that. They keep out the legal element, which is a very important thing. I believe spirituality is always marked by that.

Rem. At the very end of the Psalms it says, "Let everything that hath breath praise Jah. Hallelujah!"

J.T. That, of course, includes all these forms of life that we have spoken of, "everything that hath breath". The Psalms do not go as high as John 20. It is a question of the kind of breath, God's breath. Every animal and bird has life by breath, but under these categories we do not get fish. Genesis 1 gives

gradations of life rising to man, who receives his life by the divine breath; God breathed into him the breath of life, and he became a living soul in that way. No other creature was so dealt with. In John 20 we have a divine Person dealing in the same manner, only He Himself is in manhood, living, and obviously presenting to us the highest order of life, and He breathes that life into His disciples. It is to bring out the order of life that belongs to us as in the blessed relationships spoken of in the message sent by Mary to the disciples.

I.L. Before breathing into them, the Lord says to them, "as the Father sent me forth, I also send you" (verse 21). As they go forth, life would be seen in their testimony.

J.T. That is right. He had the testimony in mind immediately, but the breath would qualify them for heavenly things, for ascension. It brings out the testimony of the assembly in the persons who form it, they know how to act as required in their testimony. If a person is a sinner, and they judge that his sin should be forgiven, they forgive. The Lord gives them that authority. He commits Himself to them, John 20:23, "whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them". They are trustworthy, because they have His own life. They were sent forth. Apostle means one sent; but it does not convey the thought of being within, but more the authority of the One who sends. The Lord gives the disciples their position in the message to Mary, and now the power to live in it; then that power is to work in the testimony immediately.

T.R.H. Is the full result of this breathing seen in, "God all in all"?

J.T. It makes room for that, prepares for it; the great truth is that God is all in all. This is more than the breath breathed into the disciples.

LETTING DOWN

Acts 9:22 - 25; 1 Samuel 19:11, 12; Joshua 2:15, 16; Acts 11:4 - 10

These four scriptures are linked in the sense that they treat of the idea of persons being let down. They afford opportunity to say much because of the connections and persons involved, and particularly the spiritual import of the passages severally and together. It is this matter, of course, that is of value, for the mere historical records in themselves, could be easily considered and dismissed as mere incidents. Such incidents as persons let down over a wall have often happened, some, it may be, having an historical value, but these have much more than historical value. These scriptures, as I hope to show, afford instruction that applies to us now. The Scriptures bear on persons listening as they are being read, at any time, as we are now. The word of the Lord Jesus always applies, "To-day this scripture is fulfilled in your ears" (Luke 4:21).

Thus, in taking up Acts 9 we have to place ourselves in the city of Damascus. Stress is laid on the city; in the other account given of this incident Paul refers to it as "the city of the Damascenes". This implies its local character and carries the thought of what it was capable of. Each city has its own distinctive features. Although there was a christian assembly in Damascus, and although the Lord Jesus had been in it Himself, and about the environs too, it was now available to the governor, and shut up by him so that he might seize the Lord's servant. The Lord of glory, the Maker of everything, God over all, blessed for ever, had deigned to move out from His place above to this city, or near it, so as to intercept him who was to be His servant, but

then the sinner, Saul of Tarsus. This gave Damascus peculiar distinction. The movement was not to slay Saul, as would be the case were the Lord acting in a military way, as He will do presently, coming out of heaven with the armies of heaven following Him. The beast and the false prophet shall be arrayed with their armies against Him and He will have them taken alive and cast into the lake of fire. Such is the punitive power of Christ, but it is not so in this case, for He was on other lines, as He is today. He had appeared in grace to Peter who had denied Him, and, in grace now He is appearing to Saul; who had persecuted Him, in His saints, in the most ruthless manner. The Lord Jesus had it in mind to secure this young man in grace, and He did. He caused a great light to shine about Saul while he was travelling, I suppose, with a certain amount of pomp, and a company with him. He who made the sun and placed it in the heavens was now there, and He caused a light above its brightness to shine around this lawless, violent persecutor of Himself, and Saul fell to the ground. The Lord said to him "Saul, Saul". Think of his name being mentioned twice by the holy lips of the Creator of the universe, nay, more than that -- the Saviour of mankind, the Head of His body, the assembly. He says to this lawless man, "Saul, Saul, why dost thou persecute thou me?" This happened outside of the city of Damascus. Saul was stricken down and led by the hand into Damascus, and the Lord went into Damascus, too, to prepare Ananias to receive Saul. Later the Lord went into the city of Corinth. How many cities He went into, who can say? He went into the city of Corinth and told this same Saul, now changed to Paul, "I have much people in this city" (Acts 18:10). He was perfectly conversant with Corinth, too, and all in it,

but He would not be occupied with its learning or its worldliness. He would be occupied with His people there. Now He goes to Damascus to visit a brother, Ananias.

I refer to all this only to show what Damascus was in the eyes of the Lord. He went to Ananias and told him about the conversion of Saul and where he was; in a house in the street called Straight. The Lord knows all the houses of His people in a city. He says, "Seek in the house of Judas one by name Saul, he is of Tarsus". He knew where he was and He told Ananias what to do. It was necessary that Ananias should convey to Saul the spirit of the dispensation. He was to see and to know, that the Jesus who had appeared to him by the way had sent Ananias His servant to him. Ananias went and addressed him, saying, "Saul, brother", and laid his hands upon him. I am referring to this because of the advantages Damascus had, and yet its inhabitants were such as would put Saul to death. Luke tells us that the Jews watched the gates day and night that they might kill Saul. These gates doubtless would have been opened to him, and he would have been received by the dignitaries of the city, had the Lord Jesus not intercepted him, and he would have carried on Satan's work against the people of the Lord, as he had done in Jerusalem.

How different it is now! Saul is one of these persecuted followers of Jesus. We are told here that "Saul increased the more in power, and confounded the Jews who dwelt in Damascus, proving that this is the Christ" (Acts 9:22). He was thoroughly in the work, a lover of Christ now, and Damascus did not want him. We are not to be deceived by appearances, by religious things, the allowance of cathedrals, preachings and Bibles.

Everything turns on whether Christ is respected and loved, or whether He is hated. The passage here shows that the city had turned against Christ, for they watched the gates day and night to kill Saul, but the Lord had means of getting him out other than through the gates. The people think that Saul could only get out through the gates, for "they watched the gates day and night to kill him". That was the position. It was a changed Damascus, a changed world for Saul. The greatest lover and preacher of Christ in it, is now to be waylaid as he issues through the gates.

This brings out what saints can do for the Lord's servants. They have been in dread of Saul, but now they are his servants. They have recourse to the wall of the city, that which, according to man would keep Saul in, or an enemy out. They let him down; "the disciples took him by night and let him down through the wall, lowering him in a basket". That is what they did. It shows the resourcefulness of love, the love of the disciples, true love. Not that the love is mentioned, but the fact shows that it was there. True love is not only that we love God and Christ, but also that we love the brethren, particularly the servants who are outstanding and faithful in their service. David said, "By my God have I leaped over a wall" (2 Samuel 22:30). They do not leap over it here. The Spirit of God had more in it than Saul's escape. He shows us in this remarkable city how that a servant, being served by the brethren, may be let down by them. I hope to show later how ultimately all is caught up into heaven, so all the lettings down have in mind that we might be worthy of being caught up.

In Peter's vision in Acts 11 everything was drawn up into heaven. That is the last movement. It is an ascending movement. In the meanwhile the servants and saints let each other down. The

servants are often best served by the saints when they are let down. Instead of exalting him, instead of praising Saul for his remarkable ability in confounding the Jews, the circumstances now require that they should let him down. Not surely that they do not appreciate his remarkable ability to serve; it is said that "Saul increased the more in power, and confounded the Jews who dwelt in Damascus, proving that this is the Christ". Young men are easily inflated, especially if successful in ministry. Here the saints did not premeditate such humiliating circumstances, but the circumstances are such that the saints serve Saul in the form of letting him down. They are not intending that he should stay down, nor is the Lord intending that. The time is coming when we shall all be taken up, when the power of the Lord will take us all up. In the meantime the lettings down are helping us, and the Lord is using His people to help, not that they have any animosity against anyone, but circumstances require it. Saul requires it to effect his escape from the Jews here. The attitude of the citizens of Damascus require it too, but still it was no accident that they had to let him down. They did it, and they did it well. They attest their skill; they used a basket and he tells us himself what we do not learn here, that it was through a window and through the wall. It is through or by the wall, the wall being instrumental, as much as to say that what men set up as barriers God uses for the good of His people here, for the deliverance of His servants. The disciples, and the window, and the basket, and the wall, are all used for the welfare of this great servant.

That is the first thought I had in mind to present, and it is wholesome for those who serve, and everyone should serve, for the Lord has given grace to

everyone, all according to the measure of His gift. There are special servants who serve in a public way and they need this particularly. The saints do not devise the circumstances, the Lord brings them about, and the saints use them. They did what wisdom required. The servant is let down and he is a better man as he reaches the ground than he was before. There is the testimony to the care and wisdom of the saints in the way they did it. It was a downward movement, and they are doing it gently, as the basket would imply. They put it through a window, which was an outlet, and would perhaps imply that there is light in what is done. There are three things, the basket, the wall and the window, instruments by which things are done. The basket is the vessel in which the thing is done, and Paul is in the vessel. He would understand that. It is a very important thing to understand what the vessel signifies spiritually. He was himself a vessel, and now this vessel, rightly chosen, is used by the disciples to let him down. You say, you are putting thoughts into the passage that are not there. But why should the Spirit of God tell us all this? He could have confined the report to the fact that Saul escaped, but he tells us all this. He has to remind us in our service that circumstances come up in which the brethren are obliged in wisdom to let us down. Paul would never forget this experience. He records it in 2 Corinthians 11:32, 33 later, changing the wording somewhat; he puts in "window" and leaves out "Jews". He calls upon the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ to assure them he was not lying. He was thus telling it because there was in the happening a lesson to all who should come after him. He was about to relate another experience, that he had been taken up to the third heaven. He did not have long to

wait for the opposite movement of going up. If the Lord lets His servants down He will surely counterbalance it by lifting them up. He will not allow us to be long down. In 2 Corinthians 12, referring to his exaltation, Paul says he did not know whether he was in the body or out of it. It is a question of God's power; Paul says that he was caught up to the third heaven and into paradise, 2 Corinthians 12:3, 4. The counterbalance must follow, he was let down by a thorn for the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet him, lest he should be exalted above measure. Normally the brethren do not use flattery, but on the contrary if circumstances require it they let each other down. God can do many things, accomplish many results, by one action.

Now the passage in Samuel corresponds somewhat. Michal is said to be a lover of David. She let him down too in very similar circumstances. Saul the king is set to murder his son-in-law, showing how little we can rely on natural relationships. In divine things there is nothing more unreliable than natural relationships. Michal is said to love David, and she shows that she did at this time. He is in his house and Saul sent his messengers to watch the house. Think of the murder in that man's heart, and yet he is the king of Israel! This shows how official positions in the things of God are no guarantee against evil. But Michal was a relation of David, and in the most intimate relation too -- she was his. Later she proves unworthy of such a husband. A certain religious organisation of today corresponds: to a point loyal to Christ, but later proved unworthy of Him. The Spirit of God occupies us with Michal's love at this time. She is David's wife here, but she replaces him by an image, which is rather suspicious as to her own state. Still she loved David, and the Spirit of God would warn

anyone here who may be on the Michal line -- loving Christ at the beginning and despising at the end.

This lover of David, in the place of wife, is later a despiser when he dances before the ark. How sorrowful! We are to watch our hearts. The apostle says, "I have espoused you unto one man, to present you a chaste virgin to Christ" (2 Corinthians 11:2). In the espousal the best is looked for. There is great antagonism to Christ at the present time, therefore the need of guarding Him is great, and it is within the range of everyone of us to guard the Lord against the murderer. The Lord is beyond it personally, but He is here in testimony in the assembly which He speaks of as Himself (Acts 9:4, 5). As thus here the enemy attacks Him, and hence the need of loyal protection. Are we in this wifely position in which love is normal, and in which the very best should be forthcoming? Are we yielding the very best in a military position: guarding the Lord and His people from the murder that is current? It is a very great matter to stand up loyally for Christ, in the household, in the office, in the school, not putting an image in His place to deceive people. Michal let him down by the wall through the window, and in this she served well. She is in keeping with Rahab, who let the spies down by a cord through a window. It is a line of truth running through Scripture, and she is in keeping with it, for she lets him down through the window, and he escapes. David escapes, so that he is yet alive, yet in the testimony, yet ready for kingship; Michal has done well. I am speaking now to the young, particularly to sisters here, as to how far we carry this service, and as to whether we are ready for it. As to the image or teraphim, covered with a net of goat's hair, the Spirit of God has mentioned it no doubt that we might fully understand

Michal, especially in her typical significance. She has it in the house and uses it, it implies an idolatrous state; it is the image. Still she let David down through the window, so that he escaped. She had love for David.

In the book of Joshua we have a more exalted case perhaps than these as regards the letting down. She is Rahab, a great sinner, but later a saved one: hence the more valuable as a witness of divine grace. Saul, too, was a great sinner and hence also a greater monument of grace. He enlarges on this in 1 Timothy 1:16, saying, "Mercy was shewn me ... for a delineation of those about to believe on him to life eternal". The more one repents, the more one judges himself before God, the more one magnifies the grace of the Saviour, the greater the testimony he bears to the grace that saves. Rahab was a sinner, but now she is a changed person. The Spirit of God enlightens us as to her particularly in James where she is said to have sent the spies out by another way. She learnt the other way rapidly. She not only let the spies down through the window, but there is much said of the cord used. It is not a basket. It was no doubt the product of flax, for Rahab had flax in her house. She does not use a basket, or vessel of any kind, she uses a cord strong enough to let down two men through the window. She was evidently a skilful person. Skill always goes with spirituality, as we see elsewhere; not only understanding, but skill in understanding. There is much that is very slipshod in our understandings as christians. Many have very little shamefacedness in acknowledging their ignorance of things that they should know. Gabriel told Daniel that he had come to make him skilful in understanding.

Rahab evidently had this cord. It is called a line when she sets it up in the window; there

it is a matter of testimony. But as a cord it is a question of strength. It represents something the Lord looks for in us as helping His servants in a spiritual way. Hence she lets them down; a covenant having been made between her and the two spies. The cord is now called a line, and is set up in the window as a token; it is to be seen. The word scarlet is put in, a colour that catches the eye. It is a testimony to what happened in that house. It is a testimony of a covenant, one of the most important things in Scripture. It is not only that the spies were let down, but they were told what to do afterwards. It is not always that servants are told what to do by the saints. The servants usually tell the saints what to do, but here is a woman who served these men. Potentially they are to be her saviours, and they were when Jericho was taken, but now she is telling them what to do. Let us not be too shy to tell a brother who lives amongst us what he should do. Even Paul is amenable to advice from the brethren. Rahab tells the spies to go to the mountains, meaning spiritually another way from the ordinary. That is the provision for these servants of God, as to their way. You may wonder why I am stressing this. It is because God would have us reciprocal. Reciprocation among the people of God saves from clericalism. Even as the king of Israel was to be from among the brethren, so the greatest servant is one of the brethren, and he loves to be one of them. He is happier and safer as he maintains this attitude. The principle of reciprocation is most necessary and indeed essential to our mutual salvation. Rahab understands Israel and what God has been doing for Israel, and hence was spiritual, and so she sent the spies out another way. At times, if you can get a brother to go another way to that which he intends to take,

you have gained a victory. The spies, as guided by Rahab, were saved from their pursuers.

The last scripture is to show that all these lettings down are in view of ascension. These servants must have felt it, having to take orders from a woman. Balak took orders from Deborah. Even David was helped by Abigail and saved from blood shedding. All these down-goings are most helpful and wholesome, and establish mutual feelings amongst the brethren, binding them all together in the great spiritual organism in which God has set us. They all have their glorious finish in the up-going which Peter speaks of in Acts 11. It is a well-known passage so I will not go into it. He says, "And again all was drawn up into heaven". The saints all belong to heaven. It is what comes down from heaven that goes back into it. Our origin spiritually is heaven. Christians are heavenly. The vessel was let down. Peter says descending from heaven, a dignified word: he saw "a certain vessel descending" (verse 11), not falling, but being let down by the four corners. There is dignity in the descending, but, too, there is the care of heaven in binding the sheet by the four corners. Four indicates universality, and the sheet is perfectly intact; it is secure. The Lord says that, "hades' gates shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18). Such is the great heavenly vessel that has come down. The assembly is in mind. It contains humanity, as you might say, but cleansed of God. The creatures are identified by Peter, "all the quadrupeds and creeping things of the earth, and the fowls of the heaven", and the voice is about what is in that sheet: "What God has cleansed, do not thou make common" (Acts 10:12, 15). The contents are the subjects of the work of God. The great incident happened thrice, as if God would indelibly impress

His great servant with it. "The vessel was straightway taken up into heaven;" like the Lord Himself (Acts 1:11).

Thus we may well accept the down-lettings. The saints, too, should be alive to this service to the servants of God, and to each other in a general way. They do not make the circumstances, they do not contrive to get a brother into a tight place and to let him down. That is not love. We are to respect one another, and to show honour to one another; "to whom honour, honour" (Romans 13:7); "each esteeming the other as more excellent than themselves" (Philippians 2:3). The saints in Damascus did not make the circumstances we have been considering, God did. He makes all these circumstances, and they are used rightly for the promotion of healthy formation and profitable service amongst us in holy, happy reciprocation of love with all. Work is always going on in the saints in this sense, so that we may be fitted to ascend. All were taken up into heaven. We belong there. We come down here in principle to serve, to be taken up again to be with Christ for ever. What a glorious prospect this is, all to be taken up again into heaven!

SPIRITUAL VALUES

Matthew 11:7 - 19, 25 - 27; Matthew 12:6 - 13, 38 - 42

J.T. The thought in mind is that we might consider these scriptures as presenting spiritual values. Spiritual appraisement is necessary, specially in a time of crisis. Principles come first, but we also have to think of persons and to appraise them aright, for persons involved in any given critical state of things have to be considered. It is not to be overlooked, however, that in His sovereignty God sometimes uses persons that are in themselves unsuitable, as illustrated in Balaam, Joab, and many others. In such instances the works speak for themselves. But even as to those suitable, they are secondary to divine principles. Inasmuch, however, that principles work out in persons, so persons are essential, and these passages are read because they bring out this side of the truth; first the greatness of John the baptist appraised by the Lord Himself, and then the greatness of Christ Himself brought out here both personally, and, we may say, officially. He is greater than the sabbath, and greater than such as Jonas and Solomon. Then we have the greatness of those who belong to the kingdom of the heavens. In chapter 12 we have the greatness of man as compared with the lower creatures: a man is better than a sheep, for example. So that in brief we have the greatness of Christ in these passages, the greatness of John the baptist, the greatness of those who form the kingdom of the heavens, and then the greatness of man relatively as over against the lower creatures. I used the word crisis because this section brings out the rejection of Christ in His ministry; it is the turning point in His ministry: hence these values are made

prominent as that which is required to stand in critical times.

A.M.H. You said that principles must precede persons, which obviously is right. Have you any special principles in mind at this point?

J.T. Well, no. I was thinking rather of the persons as I enumerated them, but principles do appear, such as comparative judgment. The fact comes out in chapter 11, that all places and cities come into judgment, bringing out the question of local responsibility, and how the truth has been received; how the evidence of God's work has been received and appraised. The thought of leadership is another principle that comes out in chapter 12; others too are seen. Chapter 12 is very full, a long and important chapter, leading up to the brethren, and how they are marked off; the sin against the Holy Spirit is significantly seen here. Other most important truths appear additional to what is especially in mind.

Returning to the first scripture read, here is a servant who at this particular juncture is somewhat in the shade. He sends to the Lord asking Him, "Art thou the coming one? or are we to wait for another?" We are apt to overlook the whole history of John and discredit him because of this, but the Lord, after the messengers depart, speaks of what a person John was, ignoring for the moment this shadow over his history, occasioned by his questioning the Lord as to whether He was the Coming One. He was in prison: "John, having heard in the prison the works of the Christ". We learn here that allowance is to be made for a man's circumstances if a shade comes over his testimony, his service, or himself, and the Lord takes occasion to say "that there is not arisen among the born of women a greater than John the baptist". It is an

encouragement, it seems to me, for all in the service. But then He challenges those who are listening as to what they went out to see. I think the Lord meant to bring out what John really was. They did not go out to see "a reed moved about by the wind", or "a man clothed in delicate raiment". There must have been something more in the man than these thoughts convey, something which drew the people out to John.

A.M.H. That would be the opposite to the sounding brass or tinkling cymbal. Are you suggesting that there is substance with John?

J.T. Yes. John was really the test at the first. All Judaea and Jerusalem went out to him to be baptised; and the Lord did too. It appears here that John has lost power, but personally he is as great now as he was then; they went out to him before, but now they are saying, "He has a demon". Why is it different now? We are challenged if, having responded to the testimony of God earlier, we are indifferent or opposed now.

A.M.H. I suppose that feature might particularly apply to some locality where the condition amongst the saints is not so good as when they first came to the Lord. It casts them back upon what was their link with the Lord originally.

J.T. Just so. The substance of the testimony has not altered, so it is now a question of change of mind. They certainly would not have gone out to be baptised by a man who had a demon.

F.J.F. Would that expression "among the born of women" include the Lord Himself?

J.T. No. He is always unique. "He shall be great" (Luke 1:32). He has no peer at all. The Lord is referring to persons born of women in the ordinary sense. Here it would be the great ones

of that order, as over against persons who are born of God. Those in the kingdom of God are born of God; not that those in mind were not, such as Moses, but they are not viewed on that basis in the Old Testament. It is still a question of men as they were, that is, of the old order. Those in the kingdom of God as the Lord points out, are born anew; "he who is a little one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he". It is the little one. As we learn from other scriptures, they are born of God. It is to bring out, at this juncture, the new thing. It does not say anything just like this before, but now the time has come, He is going to bring in another order of things. He introduces that thought here as a necessary one among what is great.

F.W. Is that why John is spoken of by the Lord as greater than a prophet? There were prophets who spoke of the coming of the Lord, but John the baptist's ministry was to direct attention to Him personally.

J.T. Quite so, and it brought about real movement. Some persons were saying "He has a demon", but there were others who valued him rightly. The Lord says, "From the days of John the baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens is taken by violence, and the violent seize on it. For all the prophets and the law have prophesied unto John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, who is to come. He that has ears to hear, let him hear". He is appealing now to those who were born anew. It is a question of having ears to hear. It requires that because He is bringing in new thoughts. There is such a thing as the kingdom of the heavens, and people are seizing on it. The powerful ministry of John would lead them to it. The law and the prophets had prophesied up to him, but now the kingdom of the heavens is taking form, and people are pressing into it. That is to bring out what

John was in his ministry. He was not calling attention to himself, but was pointing to something beyond what he had part in. He was a real witness belonging to the old order, but pointing to the new.

C.A.I. What a man is gives character to his service. John is not officially presented by the Lord, but what he is as great in himself.

J.T. Yes. What a man! He was Elias indeed, so that the full thought of the Old Testament is embodied in him. He is pointing to another order of things and discrediting the old order in bringing in the new. The way the apostle John presents John's ministry is that he preached people away from himself to Christ. He heard the Bridegroom's voice and he was glad to disappear. His joy was fulfilled. What a beautiful tribute to a man in his ministry!

F.J.F. Would you say that in pointing to the Lord he pointed to the One in whom the light of every economy was centred?

J.T. Quite so. The Lord Himself in His exposition to the two going to Emmaus had this in mind: "And having begun from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself" (Luke 24:27). John was really on that line, pointing to Christ and the new order of things. I think it is very touching that Moses and the prophets pointed to a better order of things than existed, displacing the whole of the old system really by a new.

Ques. Is that why the Lord says here, "He that has ears to hear, let him hear"?

J.T. Yes. You have to pull yourself up and see what all this means. It is a formula that points to a peculiar truth that requires an anointed and circumcised ear, as the ordinary ear would not take it in. The appeal usually stands in relation to

parabolic or symbolic truth; you have to get the meaning of the words, which depends on the work of God in you.

C.A.I. Is it important for us in this way to be concerned to get the measure of the servant and the bearing of the ministry which he has?

J.T. Yes, whether it is a servant or any one of the saints. John here has lost heart a bit, and in dealing with him we must review his whole history. It is a question of values.

F.F. Had he led them in the ministry of Matthew 3, the repentant remnant, to God's beloved Son? I am referring to the voice from heaven after the baptism.

J.T. That is how it culminated. John was baptising. Jesus came from Galilee, and others were coming from Jerusalem and Judaea which were more distinguished than other places, but the Lord took no credit for His locality. He just came up from Galilee to be baptised. He came up like the rest from His own locality, whatever stigma attached to it. He accepted that and was baptised, and heaven owns Him. It was a question of fulfilling "all righteousness", and John was brought into line; he baptised Jesus, who, as coming up out of the water, is owned from heaven. John is thus in thorough accord with the mind of heaven, in his service. All that enters into what the Lord says here. I suppose none of us would venture to say this about John from the facts given earlier, but the Lord is dealing with it from His own point of view. It is very comforting to have such an appraisement, especially when difficulties arise and crises come. We must not overlook values, for the work of God is the work of God. Then, alongside of that there are the dispensational values, that I have a value, not because of anything in me or in my service, but

because of the dispensation. That is another important matter. When the Father names the families, all this will come out, their values according to the dispensation. That is a matter of God's ordering. How well off we are to belong in our dispensation, the most exalted and honoured!

A.M.H. That is a thing we have nothing to do with. It is God's sovereignty. It magnifies His grace.

J.T. Those who had gone out to see John are addressed in this section. They had left Jerusalem and Judaea to see something. Why did they do it? Now they are saying that John has a demon. The Lord is saying, that whatever people think, the divine values remain, which is a very important thing to see, that what God is doing has its own unchangeable value, and He will stand by that.

F.W. Would this kind of greatness be illustrated in Samuel -- the official priesthood passing, and Saul also superseded? Samuel introduces David.

J.T. Quite so. And although Samuel himself was set aside by the people, he keeps on serving them. "Far be it from me that I should sin against Jehovah in ceasing to pray for you" (1 Samuel 12:23). What quality there is there! How the man is above the rejection that he may receive at the hands of the brethren; Samuel is outstanding, and as he dies Abigail comes into view.

A.M.H. What is the thought in Abigail coming into view?

J.T. A great servant passes away; J.N.D., for example. Where was Abigail when he died? that is, the assembly, as of good understanding and of beautiful countenance and knowing what to do (1 Samuel 25). This is the chapter that tells us that Samuel died. And immediately we have a Nabal who rejects David. Samuel had anointed David,

but Nabal rejects him; but Abigail does not reject David. So that in referring back to the period 1884 - 1890, what happened was that those who professed to be the special friends of the great servant who had recently departed to be with the Lord divided the saints. They acted professedly on what was called 'the ecclesiastical issue;' that, as a certain meeting had rejected a letter of commendation from another meeting, the latter must be regarded as 'out of fellowship', and all gatherings were called on to bow to this. It was professedly Abigail, but it was not Abigail. Abigail knew how to act, she knew exactly what to do and did it. That is what I was thinking of. If the Lord removes leading servants, what is to take their place, what can be relied upon? David, of course, is there, but even David was not shining too well. For the moment it was Abigail who held the ground; that is to say, if we hold to assembly principles, although servants are removed, the truth will stand. The assembly is the pillar and base of the truth.

L.D.M. The young man of 1 Samuel 25:14 is a good guide.

J.T. Quite so. He knew where to place the information. He went to Abigail and told her what her husband had done. He had true judgment about Nabal.

F.F. Is Abigail the answer to David's personal features?

J.T. She corresponds in the beautiful countenance and good understanding, being the feminine side, and she becomes the wife of David (one of the types of the assembly), and she is worthy of it; the qualities are there before she comes to David.

A.M.H. Your point is that she is, as it were, the product of Samuel's long service, in a subjective way.

J.T. She would be the continuation of it in a special way, showing the fruitfulness of that service; Nabal, the governing side, utterly void of formation according to God, corresponding with Saul.

E.S.H. The Lord is bringing the assembly forward at the present time, and if we get the idea of it as seen in Abigail we would make room for her. It is the greatest thing at the present time, being of far greater value even than outstanding service.

J.T. Quite so. We are coming to it here. Matthew 16 gives us the reliability of it; "hades' gates shall not prevail against it". I think we are prepared by these chapters for such a thing as the assembly, how precious and invulnerable it is!

F.J.F. Would not what you were saying previously be of great encouragement to those who, like John, have come under the oppression of political powers in the earth?

J.T. You refer perhaps to our brethren in certain countries, where limitations have been imposed on the people of God. Quite so. It is well that we should have a right estimate of them. The Lord makes much of John being cast into prison.

The next point to be considered is the Lord's own greatness. We have been remarking, of course, that He is incomparable, because He confines the full knowledge of Himself to the Father. In verse 27 He says, "All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son but the Father, nor does any one know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom the Son may be pleased to reveal him". The word "knows" is real knowledge, not a mere objective acquaintance with a person (See footnote, New Trans.). That is, the full greatness of Christ personally is outside the range of all creatures, even the most exalted; it is confined to the Father. The Father is revealed by Him, but He

does not say that the Son is revealed. So that we are now in the presence of the inscrutable, which is an important thing to keep before us. We are brought to the inscrutable, and it promotes reverence and worship: He was down here as a Man, yet it is said by Himself that no one knows Him but the Father.

A.M.H. Not knowing the Son is a difficulty to many. Is the Son used here as a name for that Person, not suggesting that we have no knowledge of the Son of God. For instance, John bore witness to Him as Son of God. Is the term used here to indicate that Person? We do not know Him in Deity.

J.T. It is to designate the Person. Ephesians 4:13 says, "until we all arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man". That is what is knowable, but Matthew 11 is knowledge of Him in His abstract Personality. He is compassed only by the Father.

F.J.F. That marks Him off from every other person.

J.T. It certainly does. It is to bring out that He is inscrutable.

A.M.H. We can know Him objectively as Son of God, "marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by resurrection of the dead" (Romans 1:4). That would be objective knowledge.

J.T. That is right. We get instances of this as in Matthew 14:33, "Truly thou art God's Son". They knew by the miracles.

F.W. Is it perhaps the difference between comprehending and apprehending?

J.T. That is so. Apprehending is more limited; comprehending is that you go all round a thing, taking it in fully, which is impossible for the creature in regard to the Persons of the Deity.

L.D.M. What is the force of the expression "Until we all arrive"?

J.T. This is from our side and is the effect of ministry, which is to help us on, to promote interest and movement. A definite point is to be reached in connection with the Son of God here, but the Son of God apprehended in this public way, "marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by resurrection of the dead". Alongside this there is the revelation of the Father to Peter, which is the greatest thought of it, perhaps, but there are all these objective things which point to Him as Son of God.

W.H.U. Are the gifts given that we might arrive at the knowledge of the Son of God as stated in Ephesians?

J.T. Quite so.

C.A.I. Is that exemplified in the man in John 9?

J.T. Well, instead of some gifted man going to that person, the Lord Himself went to him, and asked him the question, "Dost thou believe on the Son of God?" (John 9:35). He was ready for it.

Ques. Does the Father reveal the Son to us in some measure?

J.T. The revelation to Peter, Matthew 16, is complete and we come into it. You come into what is already there. It is a fact brought into the testimony -- the revelation by the Father to Peter -- the Spirit brings us into that. I believe that is how it works out, not that you have a further revelation, but the thing is there. That is where the foundation of the assembly lies.

A.M.H. Paul's statement is very remarkable, as to God's Son being revealed in him (Galatians 1:16). Is that an inward comprehension of the greatness of the Son of God?

J.T. I think so. Perhaps not exactly what Peter had, but it is a remarkable statement, "God ... was pleased to reveal his Son in me, that I may announce him as glad tidings among the nations". It had the proclamation of the gospel in mind more than the structure, because the foundation of the structure was already there.

W.H.U. Would God's Son be set forth characteristically in Paul, as a result of what was revealed in him?

J.T. I think so. Paul would exhibit sonship in all that he was, more than Peter would, although one would not detract from Peter, but Paul was taken up in a heavenly way. Sonship properly belongs to heaven, while Peter comes in more with the foundational side. Paul would work out the inward thoughts in the heavenly city, the most intimate relations between Christ and the assembly, but in the saints viewed as heavenly.

W.H.U. Take John 3:35: "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand". Would we come into the knowledge of the Son of God in that way?

J.T. Yes. Wherever you get administrative thoughts attached to Him the testimony is in view. "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matthew 16:16), was the revelation made to Peter in relation to the testimony down here; a living God as over against an apostate dead religion. With Paul the revelation is in view of the gospel. Then Paul goes much further in connection with the thought of sonship and speaks about the heavenly side of it. God is "bringing many sons to glory". Ephesians works it out, and it is in that connection that we have the intimate relations of the assembly with Christ, and how the assembly comes down in

the dignity and fulness of sonship. She has the glory of God, Revelation 21:10.

F.J.F. The inscrutability connected with the Son makes it impossible for the human mind to view the Lord as Man and as God at the same time.

J.T. Viewing Him as Man leads to what we have been speaking of -- the full-grown man in us. It is remarkable that in this gospel Satan says to the Lord, "If thou be the Son of God, speak, that these stones may become loaves of bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone" (Matthew 4:3, 4), meaning that sonship was in mind, and that would be developed in us. We come to what sonship is in man; sonship in man in testimony here is implied. According to Matthew 11:27, sonship in Christ, although in manhood, implies that He was a divine Person, and had part in the Deity. No one knows the Son but the Father. Elsewhere we read that He is His equal, so only a divine Person can know a divine Person in the sense of this passage. If He were less than God, if He were a creature even in the most exalted way, He could be compassed by creatures.

G.R.D. You spoke earlier of the personal and official greatness of Christ. Would the inscrutable attach only to what is personal, or also to the official greatness of Christ?

J.T. Well: it is the same Person. Another person might be Lord, but nobody but the Son of God could be spoken of as Scripture speaks of Christ, even in official positions. Even as He casts out demons, or does anything, it is different from anybody else. Only a divine Person could do such things as He did them; so the Lord's Person is guarded in every way. In Matthew 12:8 the official is seen particularly. "For the Son of man is Lord of the sabbath". It is a very remarkable

statement here because He is dealing with the liberty of the saints. A very important item of the truth is contained in verses 1 to 8 of chapter 12. We have the greatness of John and those who belong to this dispensation, and the inscrutability of Christ as to His own Person, but He is to be learned from, He is a model for us at the end of chapter 11. We are called upon, as labouring and heavily laden, to go to Him to get rest. Then He shows how we are to be in liberty, not only to be relieved and at rest, but in liberty. It is in that connection that He is Lord of the sabbath, because the sabbath stands here as His, and not as used by the Jews for judaism, as it is often brought in amongst us; tying up the saints.

F.F. This would be God's sabbath centering in Christ.

J.T. He is Lord of it, but in truth it is God's sabbath, and that is what you get in verse 18. "Behold my servant, whom I have chosen, my beloved, in whom my soul has found its delight. I will put my Spirit upon him". That is what He is to God, but He is Lord of the sabbath and why can He not relieve man on the sabbath? Why cannot His disciples eat corn on the sabbath? It is to bring out the liberty that belongs to us. He is in an official place, He is greater than the sabbath because He is Lord of it, and He is bringing us into liberty, so that I think the idea at this juncture is that you come out of the sphere of judaism.

L.D.M. The liberty is a spiritual liberty. Is the turning point in this gospel in the rejection of the Spirit? The Lord speaks very solemnly about the Spirit in this chapter.

J.T. Quite so. The force of His language is remarkable. Indeed He was doing things by the Spirit of God. Judaism has a great place with

many, I mean the legal outlook, but these first eight verses are intended to set us free, not simply by doctrine, but by the Lord's example. Verses 1 - 6 say, "At that time Jesus went on the sabbath through the cornfields; and his disciples were hungry, and began to pluck the ears and to eat. But the Pharisees, seeing it, said to him, Behold, thy disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on sabbath. But he said to them, Have ye not read what David did when he was hungry, and they that were with him? How he entered into the house of God, and ate the shewbread, which it was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those with him, but for the priests only? Or have ye not read in the law that on the sabbaths the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, that there is here what is greater than the temple". He is greater than the temple. Then He goes on to say, "But if ye had known what is: I will have mercy and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless". It is a remarkable word that we are guiltless in doing the things that legal people say should not be done; but the Lord is setting us free.

C.A.I. Things can be done if there is the knowledge of the Lord in the situation.

J.T. Quite so. As He walked through the cornfields His disciples were hungry, but what they needed was there. It is a question of what is needed, and they appropriated what was there. He defended them, making them guiltless. We are here now in the midst of great values in Christ, not only Himself personally, but the power that is operative in the kingdom, the Spirit of God.

Rem Would the right appraisement of persons, disciples, in relation to the Son, keep us from being legal?

J.T. That is what I was thinking. In a crisis we are apt to lose sight of these values, what persons are, and principles too, principles coming first, for, as already said, God may use persons to maintain the truth who are not in keeping with it, such as Joab, Jehu and many others. The truth is always the truth.

F.F. Would the force of the quotation, "I will have mercy and not sacrifice" mean that we should have mercy?

J.T. That is it. When trouble arises in a meeting, we are apt to lose sight of these things, and then, of course, the assembly drops out of view.

L.D.M. Is the apostle helping the Galatians on this line? "Christ has set us free in freedom" (Galatians 5:1). Is that the greatness of what God has brought us into?

J.T. You can see how He brings in great things, such as Jerusalem above.

L.D.M. I was thinking of that.

J.T. Yes, and new creation. "Neither is circumcision anything" (Galatians 6:15). Think of the greatness of the things mentioned: new creation, eternal life, the Israel of God, and others you get in Galatians, great things brought in to lift us out of the smallness of legality.

L.D.M. We have sonship too, another of the great things.

F.F. It gives force to the expression "All things have been delivered to me by my Father" (Matthew 11:27). All things, pointing to and centering in Christ, where liberty is.

J.T. Yes. You are impressed with that thought, that all things are in God's hands. Here is a Man rejected personally in a most murderous way, but He "answered;" see the holy buoyancy with which He answered: "I praise thee, Father, Lord of the

heaven and of the earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to babes". He was not disturbed. If the heavens and the earth passed away, He would be the same.

F.F. So the man with the withered hand was healed, that he might lift up both hands in the sanctuary and bless God.

J.T. Quite so. The Lord brings into this chapter the entire overthrow of Satan, "the strong man".

Ques. What is the thought in having mercy and not sacrifice?

J.T. We should emphasise the thought of mercy. A man might be a legalist, and yet give a good contribution to the box, but it is better to be liberal spiritually. What God regards as of greatest importance is the state of a man's soul. What is proper to christianity, is what God is thinking about. A person may sacrifice and gain a reputation in that sense, and yet be a legalist. God would stress at certain times, "I will have mercy and not sacrifice". It is a question of what God is doing. I may hide my true state by my sacrifice.

A.M.H. "If I shall dole out all my goods in food, and if I deliver up my body that I may be burned, and have not love, I profit nothing" (1 Corinthians 13:3). Do you think the phrase "Lord of the sabbath" includes the thought that He could dispose of it as He will? It was set on a certain day in legalism, but now He introduces it in another way, or setting. Is that His action as Lord?

J.T. Quite so. I suppose the principle of it, as has been remarked, is Himself, and so it would be for us the ability to lie fallow and absorb the truth. The Lord is pleased to change it, and it is

a great matter to us that He is Lord of the sabbath and can turn it round.

A.M.H. I was thinking of Hebrews 4:3, which speaks of those who enter into rest. Has that a moral application?

J.T. I think so. The legalists amongst the Jews, as we see here, were using the sabbath as a weapon against the liberty wherewith Christ sets us free. The Lord implies that He can take it out of their hands, because He is Lord of it, and He did that.

W.H.U. Would you say a word about lying fallow?

J.T. That is what the sabbath means in a spiritual sense. It has often been remarked that the proportion of time that sabbath keeping required in the types, was about twenty-eight per cent of an Israelite's time. That in itself speaks strongly as to how God has more to do in us than by us. We have to learn to lay ourselves open for divine workmanship. As clay in the hands of the Potter we have to be formed. We all know in manufacturing how certain elements have to go under certain conditions so as to be usable, and that is the idea, we must come under certain conditions to be useful for the divine service. The sabbath indicates some of the divine conditions we have to go through.

C.A.I. The sabbath was for man and not man for the sabbath, so God reaches His end through it.

J.T. The sabbath is in this sense a means to an end. The Jews were using it to bind up the people of God. The Son of man is Lord of it, which would imply that He has made it available to all mankind, not only to the Jews, and it has become available spiritually now. We are to understand it and take it up. God has great things in mind and He is working with certain materials. So before we have

any material for the tabernacle brought forward, after the instructions to Moses on the mount, a great deal is said about the sabbath. That is the divine thought; before the material for the tabernacle is brought in, the sabbath must be kept, and we have a word added, that God rested on the sabbath and was refreshed (Exodus 31:17). That is not mentioned before. The sabbath is formally mentioned first in relation to the manna, and later, in Exodus 31, after the unfolding of the pattern of the tabernacle, which spoke of Christ, it is said that God rested and was refreshed.

Ques. Does the scripture, "Sacrifice and offering thou willedst not; but thou hast prepared me a body" (Hebrews 10:5), bear upon this?

J.T. That is to bring out that the mere typical offerings in themselves were nothing to God. "For blood of bulls and goats is incapable of taking away sins" (Hebrews 10:4), so that a divine Person had to become Man. "For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the sanctified" (Hebrews 10:14). It is to bring out that state. The offerings in the Old Testament, in themselves, could not effect anything. They were types of Christ's coming in, but when Christ came these offerings were set aside. "He takes away the first that he may establish the second; by which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:9, 10).

F.W.W. In Exodus 16 they go out and find the manna and after that they called it Manna. Do we get things substantiated in our souls before we name them?

J.T. Just so. The manna and the sabbath are parallel thoughts. As I appropriate Christ as manna I am restful, a new line comes into view in

the sabbath; we are to be restful and develop on this new line. Manna is food for development and formation; in the sabbath keeping formation takes place. Undue activity hinders formation.

L.D.M. The feast of booths follows the injunction to keep the sabbath (Leviticus 23).

J.T. Quite so; where the saints would be in love together. The sabbath is the beginning of all the feasts in Leviticus 23. It is the prime thought of God. He begins with that, and the end of all these feasts is that we may come into restfulness with God. You come into rest where God rests in Christ. If God is resting, you are also, in Christ.

Rem. It really involves formation, I suppose?

J.T. That is the point, it is formation, and, while you get the pattern, you get no material for the tabernacle until the sabbath is accepted (Exodus 31:12 - 17 and 35: 1 - 3).

C.A.I. So a wrong or legal view of the sabbath would depreciate the value of man, but the Lord says, "How much better then is a man than a sheep!"

J.T. It shows how distorted things were, a sheep must be saved, but not a man. Legality is really malformation. You have no assembly material in legality as shown in this scripture. It is in the liberty of Christ setting us free we have formation. There is no formation apart from keeping sabbath.

A.M.H. Would legality damage perhaps by causing us to enlarge on detail, and thus we might lose a brother? A sheep would be something important to their minds but they are forgetting the brother. I was thinking of how many things come up amongst us and we may be perturbed at the thought of losing some detail or some activity, which might be encroached upon, but in the meantime

we are losing our brother, who is of far more value to us as a live element towards God.

J.T. The final thought is a comparison between Christ and certain servants who went before. It is in connection with the sign as in verse 38: "Then answered him some of the scribes and Pharisees, saying, Teacher, we desire to see a sign from thee". There had been many. This gospel especially stresses the great number and variety of signs the Lord had performed; still they are asking for a sign. He says in verse 39, "A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and a sign shall not be given to it save the sign of Jonas the prophet. For even as Jonas was in the belly of the great fish three days and three nights, thus shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. Ninevites shall stand up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and behold, more than Jonas is here". He is making the most of Jonas and the effect of his ministry, but He says there is more here, and the effect is not seen. A sorrowful state is seen here. The Lord is calling attention to the hardness of the soil, and even as to Solomon and his glory, "behold, more than Solomon is here". It is well to keep that word here in mind in this section; indeed the important point at any time in the testimony is what is actually existent in any given place in the power of the Spirit of God. It is a question of what is in this town now by the power of the Spirit of God.

C.A.I. To lack discernment and appreciation of the value of what is here has a solemn consequence in the next section in connection with the evil spirit coming in.

J.T. If the truth is not valued, room is made for the evil spirit to come in, and he will come in. Alas,

he has come into christendom. Things swept and garnished are more pleasing to Satan than ever judaism or paganism was. He takes on the refinement; generally the best sites in every town are occupied religiously. Satan promotes that sort of thing.

G.R.D. Would this last thought of yours connect with what we speak of as the moral greatness of Christ as distinct from His personal and official greatness?

J.T. It is what is here and would imply what is actually operative. It was by the Spirit of God He was doing things. It implies the Spirit. It is not who but what is here -- the great power operating for men.

C.A.I. He had that which He could draw attention to at the end of the chapter, "stretching out his hand to his disciples".

J.T. That is a beautiful thought. It is now a question of values, and that is the culminating thought in the chapter. Christ has brethren in the true sense, they do the will of God, operating -- now, at least -- as Christ did in the power of the Spirit. They fit in with all these great thoughts. Among the brethren values will be recognised.

A.M.H. Do you think the days of Jonas are something like looking back to the days when the gospel was largely blessed in a revival, but that it is a greater thing to see the assembly coming to light, and more place given to the Son of God?

J.T. I think that is right, it is what is here, the assembly, and God is bringing it forward through the light being given, in contrast to the great gospel activity of earlier days. One often realises how little we understand the things we are engaged in, how poor our estimate of things that are here.

A.M.H. Would the wisdom of Solomon come in in the way the Lord has helped us of late in our care meetings, in the matter of appraising things as you have been speaking?

J.T. Quite so.

YOUTHFULNESS IN THE SAINTS

Genesis 37:2 - 11; Genesis 39:2, 3; Exodus 24:5; Exodus 33:11; Numbers 11:27 - 29

My thought is to speak on youthfulness in the saints. Any feature of humanity that is worth calling attention to is found in the saints; in the Lord Jesus, of course, all was in infinite perfection, but I do not bring Him in here. I refer to humanity in creatures. Jesus Himself looked upon a young man, and loved him, calling attention, I suppose, to what there was before the introduction dispensationally of the new generation; it was in the probationary period. If He looks upon a young man now to love him, he is one of the saints. How often the Lord must have looked on the apostle John in a personal way! John must have been conscious of the Lord's admiring look. The Spirit through him tells us that he was the disciple whom Jesus loved.

I venture to bring forward this subject, basing my thoughts and remarks on these passages in the Pentateuch -- Genesis, Exodus and Numbers. Many corroborating scriptures could be produced, but for convenience I thought it well to restrict myself to these passages from Moses about youth. The book of Genesis may indeed be regarded as an old man's book. With the exception of Joseph, little is made in the way of special reference to youth, but special reference is made to Joseph, such references as light up the whole book, directing the attention of faith to one young man.

The first mention of him is at his birth, and the suggestion is that he was spiritual -- if not in any concrete way, certainly potentially -- for Jacob, we are told, as Joseph was born, would leave Padan-Aram,

to which land he did not belong, and in which he had spent too much of his time. It was not the land of promise, and any other land must be foreign to faith, whatever its glory according to man. It was not the realm of faith, so Jacob significantly spoke of moving away as Rachel bore Joseph.

I refer to this as important, for youth, which is to develop to maturity and experience so as to be eligible for a crown, generally begins early to manifest the evidence of the divine work. In some sense God begins at the very earliest possible date in view of building up vessels such as I have mentioned. Even a Paul, although living a good period of his life in lawlessness, yet spoke about being separated from his infancy. God had done it. In Joseph the Spirit of God would direct our view to the spiritual side in him appearing in a dark scene; the darker the surroundings the more brilliant is the shining out of the work of God. Perhaps nobody but Jacob could discern what was there. Jacob certainly discerned something, and that something is enlarged upon as he proceeds with Joseph, for, as many of us know, Joseph is put before his mother in the display of Jacob's family before Esau. Esau is the brother who proved false, but had every opportunity of recovering himself by the spiritual element in his brother's family. If we have to do with Esau's counterpart now, we shall not testify much to them by mere doctrine, or learning, but by spiritual power.

So the spiritual discerns all things, and he is discerned of no one. Did Esau take notice of Joseph's appearing before his mother? It is doubtful, but the testimony was there, and that is the irrefutable testimony, spirituality, which the natural man cannot compass. The history of Joseph is built up on

those lines. In Genesis 37 he is seventeen years of age -- just a youth. Having considerable ground to cover, one can only make a few remarks as to what marked him at this age. Verse 2 refers to "the generations of Jacob", but mentions only Joseph; the Spirit of God brings Joseph before our eyes and would have us to retain him before our eyes throughout this book. He is Christ in type. He is seen feeding the flock with his brethren; it is a good occupation for a youth to be occupied with livestock, typically the saints; tending them. In this service he is associated with his brothers, whose conversation was not profitable, but the contrary. He brings an evil report of them to his father, not undertaking at his age to rebuke his brothers -- that was his father's province. Everything is perfect in this respect, the seemliness of youth. The apostle said to Timotheus, "Let no one despise thy youth". If that injunction is heeded in the way in which we comport ourselves in youth, then no one can despise us. If it be the manner of a grown man, no one can despise that. Joseph brought tidings of his brothers to his father.

And then we have the record that his father loved Him above all his sons, Joseph being the son of his old age. He was loveable, and the sequel shows that he retained this affection throughout, it was not lost on him. Jacob made him a coat of many colours. All this distinction brought upon him persecution; his brethren hated him more and more. Such is the natural attitude as the spiritual shines. It is a very good test, for if we are free of persecution, we may well question our spirituality as to how much of it there is.

The young man was not cowed by their hatred, and the next thing is that he has the mind of God; he is trustworthy. The mind of God is given to

reliable persons; and it is not obtained even by reading: although it is most important to read the Bible and books that are helpful -- those who do not, suffer loss, and everyone knows it who knows them -- but it is not that here, it is a dream, which is one of God's ways of conveying His mind, and Joseph was capable of this. He got light as regards the house of Jacob. His brethren are first told, the persons immediately concerned, he told his brothers what referred to them, and told his father what referred to him, which is another important thing. If you have anything to tell, tell it to the persons involved, because they are the ones to be told. The result here was that "they hated him yet the more". What a terrible feeling to be hated more and more, the tide of envy and hatred rising against one! Joseph experienced it in his youth, and according to the record, there was no unseemly resentment on his part, none at all, in fact -- he is a wonderful type of Him who was led as a sheep to the slaughter and opened not His mouth.

We are told in chapter 39 that Jehovah was with him; and I may say here, there is nothing more important to say to young men and women than what I am calling attention to now. We see beautiful progress here; Jehovah was with him, and not just occasionally. This always marks those whom God approves. The time comes in the history of a person when God is with him. Jehovah was with Joseph. He was now a slave, but Jehovah was with him, and that fact appears in whatever he is doing, even the most menial thing would bring it out. If he were to clean his master's boots, he would do it well, God was with him. Then, we are told, he was a prosperous man; that is increase. That is the divine way, for spirituality means increase more and more. Chapter 37 does not say

Joseph was prosperous, but here in persecution, in captivity, he is increasing.

What I have said about him suffices just now; one could say much more, for he is one of the most striking types of Christ in the book of Genesis. In fact the whole of the Pentateuch is lit up by the account the Spirit of God gives of this young man. I am mentioning these particular traits and incidents because without some understanding of them we shall never acquire an elder's crown; we may aspire to it, but never attain it. We must build from the bottom. There are no short cuts in divine things. The Psalms tell us about this young man, how the word came that he was to say, that is, his ministry, and how the word of the Lord tried him. Here he is a prosperous man, and that speaks much.

I now come to Exodus to bring out another thing in regard to youth, in chapter 24, but shall comment very briefly on this passage. Having built up the foundation in Genesis for ministry in young men, we have youths here sent by Moses to do priestly work. I want to call attention to the fact that God, before naming a thing, would bring out that it exists, that it is functioning. That is one point I seek to make clear from this passage. Many of us in our youth have desired to be known as teachers or evangelists before the needed ability marked us, whereas, God's thought is, let the thing shine before naming it, let it be there unquestionably. Even Paul was not sent out formally for a considerable time; yet he was able to preach and to pray, he was a priest, for the Lord said to Ananias, "Behold, he is praying". A great feature in a young man is that he is marked by prayer; indeed it is the public testimony to priesthood. We are told to pray always. The Lord in Luke is seen about ten times

in prayer. So ability for service should be in evidence before it is formally named. It is very pleasing to God that one humbly goes on with any work he can do. Let somebody else name it, not oneself, not the person involved. It is to be noted that we are not told who these young men mentioned in Exodus 24 were, not a word as to this, but that they are young men and that Moses sent them. He would know them, of course, but they are not called priests; their service, however, was priestly.

I now go on to Joshua. He is not called a young man when first introduced to us in Exodus 17, but he is in the passage I read in Exodus 33. He is a military man as introduced to us, a trustworthy man too, who did well in breaking the power of Amalek by the edge of the sword, but now he is said to be a young man and not departing from the tabernacle; not simply that he is there, but he is not leaving the position -- that is the idea. You might be there and your mind elsewhere, but his mind is there. That is his determination, which is a very good thing in young people, that is determination in the things that are right, but not determination to carry out one's own will, which is often seen in young people to their ruin, but Joshua is in a position in connection with God's will, and he is not departing from it -- "from within the tent". Moses went into the camp, but this young man did not depart from within the tabernacle. It is a fine trait in a young person when you know that a certain attitude or position is right, that it is of God, to resolve to continue in it. We are told in Romans 7 of an almost unspeakable experience or analysis, but the Holy Spirit enabled the servant who went through it to write it down for us, so that we may understand how he comes out triumphantly with the power of

determination; and I urge this on young people, to resolve to do what is right at all cost. "I myself with the mind serve God's law". That is a resolve, and he who made it was used of God, more than any believer.

In moving on to Numbers 11, we come to Joshua again, but now, alas, in a very different role. He is still a youth -- one of Moses' young men. In this connection there is one thing I cannot omit saying, that this young man, who became a great servant of God, at one time had bad hearing, not physical hearing, but spiritual hearing, which is a very dangerous thing in the house of God. It is a great disadvantage to people who are seeking to listen to what the Spirit of God is saying if they cannot hear physically, but it has to be accepted, or overcome as far as may be, but when there is poor hearing in a spiritual sense, that person is dangerous. He will misconstrue things that are said, he will report them wrongly, he will give out what he thinks is the sense instead of giving the words used. I am referring to Exodus 32. Moses and Joshua were coming down from the mountain, an old and a young brother together, and the young one says, "There is a shout of war in the camp". Moses says, "It is the noise of alternate singing I hear". Suppose Moses and Joshua have to give evidence as to what they heard, what would be the result? The young man says, 'The voice of war', which would be favourable to the idolaters and would seem to vindicate them. Moses says, 'The voice of mirth', which would not vindicate them, but indicate idolatry; you will thus see the position. Suppose one says, 'To whom are we to listen?' I should say the old man, the brother of experience. Joshua would bring in a false report that time if called upon, had he not been corrected by Moses. When spying out the land, he brought

no false report, but now he would tend to vindicate his brethren, when they are not to be vindicated; they are idolatrous. Moses will condemn them, he will tell the facts, his experienced ear knew it was the voice of mirth. Paul brings it down to our dispensation, 1 Corinthians 10:7, "The people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play". That was what Moses heard, and he knew it, and he condemned Israel.

I now return to the book of Numbers, where we still have Joshua, who is said to be "Joshua the son of Nun, the attendant of Moses, one of his young men". Watch the last phrase; I think it is the first time we get it. We hear also of Joab's men, and the men of other leaders. They are apt to be partisans -- a dangerous thing -- and sometimes seen in young brothers. Now Joshua says, as he learned that two others were prophesying in the camp, "My lord Moses, forbid them!" Forbid what God is doing! See how easily we get into a false position. This is a most estimable young man, a servant of Moses, one of Moses' young men; there are others, and that is where the danger lies with young men in the things of God. It is a remarkable statement here that he was one of his young men, being also his attendant, and having been on the mount with him. Another young man here observed that these men were prophesying in the camp, and he came and told Moses, "Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp". You cannot blame this young man. He had something important to speak about, information that Moses should have, but here is Joshua, who ought to know better, saying, "My lord Moses, forbid them!" Others might say that as Joshua said this, it must be right, but it is not right, Joshua is not saying the right thing, honourable as he is. I am speaking of this to show what we

all are liable to. "My lord Moses" -- no man like him, Jehovah said later; he is worthy of Joshua's allegiance, worthy of his loyalty, but Joshua has no license for telling Moses what to do. Abishai said to David that Shimei should be put to death, but David refused, asserting that he knew he was king of Israel. It is a question of the dispensation and Moses represents this here. Why should any one say to him, "My lord Moses, forbid them"? Forbid what? God gave Eldad and Medad the Spirit, not Moses. It was taken by Jehovah from Moses, and given to these men. It was to some extent reducing Moses' importance, and Moses accepted it most beautifully.

We do well to observe that partisanship even in relation to Moses, an honoured servant, is to be repudiated. "My lord Moses"! Who deserved such respect more? But Moses says, "Enviest thou for my sake?" He did not want that. He says to Joshua, "Enviest thou for my sake? would that all Jehovah's people were prophets and that Jehovah would put his Spirit upon them!" Partisanship in favour of a servant rather limits God, and shuts out His sovereignty, and we must always make room for this. Joshua failed in that, great servant though he was.

So these scriptures in the Pentateuch, specially these ministerial books, adjust us. They are written for our learning that we might see our tendencies and forestall them, and resolve to do the will of God. "I myself with the mind serve God's law". I could say more in regard to Moses himself from Exodus to bring out youth as maturing; his history is alongside Joseph's and David's; from an infant he is before us. Stephen says that when Moses was full forty years old "it came into his heart to look upon his brethren". He identified himself

with his brethren who were slaves. He elected to suffer with them, valuing the reproach of Christ, and identifying himself with the Hebrew slaves as his brethren. In his advanced years Moses was commended by Jehovah, saying, "He is faithful in all my house" (Numbers 12:7).

ANGELIC MINISTRY

Luke 1:8 - 12, 19, 26 - 33; Daniel 8:15 - 17; Daniel 9:20 - 25

I wish to speak this evening about angelic ministry, although in Scripture much evidently is held back as to angels, and we are warned against the worship of angels, or as to them, enquiring into what we have not seen, angels themselves refusing expressly to be worshipped.

Still, Scripture has much to say about them. They existed before man, and evidently before the earth, for Jehovah tells Job that the sons of God -- obviously referring to angels -- shouted for joy as the foundation of the earth was laid. They are not to be regarded as being at a great distance from us and unknowable by us, for in the epistle to the Hebrews we are enjoined to use hospitality, and some, it is said, entertained angels unawares, implying that it was a great honour. We know that saints of old entertained them, Abraham, for instance, and Lot; Manoah and his wife, too, and others; so that they are capable of communicating with the saints, or christians, being sons of God themselves, they have some affinity with us as sons of God. Then we know that, as to the assemblies, Christ sent His angel to testify the book of Revelation to His bondman John. And later He says He sent His angel, without mentioning John: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify ... these things", so we should understand something of angelic communication.

Moreover, they are said to be in the heavenly city in which we have part. The names of the twelve tribes of Israel are inscribed there, and twelve angels are at the gates. If we make a present application, they are not far away from us in an administrative

sense, and then we are told in a very comprehensive manner that God has made His angels spirits and that they are sent out for ministry, sent out to minister to those who are heirs of salvation; so that we are attended by them. If we do not understand them, then we have scarcely appropriated much that God has provided for us. You will understand that I am not speaking of them abstractly, or as by themselves, but in the sense in which they are introduced in Scripture as having part in the service of God and in the testimony of God, and as I said, attending every day upon those who are heirs of salvation.

We see them first formally attending a rebellious person, Hagar, but she was of the household of faith, employed in it, and therefore came under the notice and service of angels. Any such as she, who may be rebellious, for she fled from her mistress, would do well to take note that angels may be attending them, for although we turn aside as chafed, or fretted, or in self-will, the ministrations of God follow us, specially by the hands of angels. They had a great deal to do in the Old Testament, even the law being given through the service of angels, and in that connection we are taught that they represent what is mysterious. Christians ought to be initiated in all mysteries, and we should learn that mysteries belong to us. We read of the mystery of the seven stars which the Lord revealed to John, the seven stars which He held in His right hand being the seven angels of the assemblies, but it was mysterious. If the truth be known, every christian had part in that mystery as representative of the whole, for these angels are in the Lord's hands, He holds them. First it says He holds them, and then that He has them. They are mysterious, inclusive of all that forms the assembly, for it is a question of

responsibility, representation in responsibility, and anyone who elects himself out of that brings his christianity into discredit and doubt. I mention that, so that we may see how this thought of angelic ministry is interwoven with christianity as well as with the dispensation of law. And in that connection the thought is peculiarly mysterious; we have records of repeated angelic services, the persons serving speaking as God Himself in several instances, so that in various ways they represent divine attributes, and even the divine presence in a very concrete way.

Three men came to Abraham, two were angels; they visited Lot later, but as coming to Abraham they are mentioned as men. Indeed, it is doubtful whether men could be in communication with these beings intelligently, save as they appear in that way, that is, in some form intelligible and knowable by us, for we are limited.

This brings me to Gabriel who is called a man, "The man Gabriel". He represents what I have been saying in a very remarkable way. Again I would say, I am not seeking to bring the matter before you in any academic way, or treating it by itself, but it is a question of what the angels bring to us of God, the various attributes and features of the blessed God that are represented in them. As I said before, they are not far away, because they are attending us, and particularly in Gabriel's service. He and Michael are the only ones called by name. No doubt each angel is named, as each star is named, but we have these two, one of them is called an archangel, and Gabriel is mentioned by name, and he is evidently a being of rank, for he said to Zacharias, "I am Gabriel, who stand before God" (Luke 1:19).

Now I want to dwell on Gabriel, and that is what I have in mind in making all these remarks. He it is that is spoken of in all the passages read, and he evidently represents the priestly side of angelic ministry. Their services most generally correspond with our own, all divine service being expressed in some way or other in the Lord Jesus. Of these two angels specified by name, the one represents military service, that is Michael, and the other priestly service, both seen perfectly in Christ, who is "head of all principality and authority", including angels. Every function and service from God is expressed in Christ, and we love to see it, whether it is expressed directly in Him personally, or in the saints here, or in the angels, it is the same thing. There is instruction in the variety of persons through whom the services come. God has pleasure in the services in whomsoever they may be.

In coming to Gabriel we see him here in the holy place, showing what latitude these beings have, and yet they are subordinated to man. We christians, it is said, shall judge angels. A wonderful thought. We are to judge the world, too. But it is very remarkable that we are to judge angels. We shall have to say to them, and that is another reason why we should be conversant with what Scripture teaches as to them. Angels as a whole, even those fallen, are subordinate to man, Christ being Head of all principality and power as Man. He was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, but He is crowned with glory and honour -- far beyond angels, indeed, He has gone far beyond all the heavens, showing His deity. He is above the angels, in fact He speaks of them as His own, which is another indication, by the way, of His deity. We could not think of Paul saying, "I ... have sent mine angel", although he did send a representative in Timothy, in some sense like an angel, but Jesus

says, "I ... have sent mine angel to testify these things to you in the assemblies". The angels are God's and Christ regards them as His, and He uses them.

I hope no one will think I am enlarging unduly on this point, because of what I have said, but they are not far from us, and they have to do with all that is current at the present time in a wonderful way. Everything is being regulated under God on account of the saints, "those who shall inherit salvation". Here we have a priestly angel, one who has liberty to appear at the right of the altar of incense, which is in the priestly sanctuary of the temple. I present him thus so that we may see how, in the most spiritual things, we need this angelic service, for our bodies may limit us in the most sacred relations with God. The Lord Jesus Himself had the ministration of angels at the most critical time, an angel ministering to Him in Gethsemane. They minister to us, too, and we constantly need them, for our very bodily limitations interfere with us in the most sacred and spiritual features of the service of God. Here we are on high ground, for the angel has in mind one who is to make way for Christ; he is concerned about him who is to thus serve the Lord Jesus, to make His paths straight. So Gabriel is here at the right hand of the altar of incense as if he were ready to make effective the whole position.

The position was that Zacharias was offering incense, doing it well, as far as the natural eye could see. The people outside were praying; things appeared to be in order, yet there is unbelief in the whole position, and Gabriel is going to bring it out, under God. How we may be engaged in the most orderly way in the service of God, both within and without, and yet unbelief mark the whole position! Gabriel's service here is to bring

that out, not that it is the stated service, but it brings it out in result; the true state of things is brought to light. That is to say, Zacharias, although serving as priest and offering incense, doing it in order externally, is not in the exercise of faith, -- for without faith it is impossible to please God, but the angel is here to help what is going on, not to set it aside. He stood at the right of the altar of incense. You can see therefore how these great beings excel in strength, and how they are entirely amenable to the will of God, and ready to do what is needed. Here he is at the right of the altar of incense ready to make effective what was apparent. The unbelief is brought out, Zacharias is exposed, and is caused to be dumb for a season; but his mouth is opened later, and he praises God, thus the angel's ministry is a perfect success. Zacharias is humbled, Elizabeth is humbled too, but at the end they are seen as two priests. Zacharias and Elizabeth at the end of the chapter are praising God in a truly spiritual way.

So Gabriel says, "I am Gabriel". Why did he say that? To bring out the service entrusted to him and the great place he had in the service of God, as if Zacharias were to understand that an immediate representative of God was there. He stood before God, as an active servant ready to do His behests. We have to attend to the success of everything -- it is the success of things that stimulates and encourages, and the success in the incoming of Gabriel is that Zacharias and Elizabeth become worshippers in the true sense, as they never had been before, as seen at the end of Luke 1.

You will understand that we should make room for angelic service in whatever form it may appear. Some one may say he does not understand. Well, as we consider what Scripture says, the Lord gives us understanding. Every reference to angels in the

Bible is for us and we are to understand that. If they serve others why not us? Are we not in need? It is needful, therefore, for all unacquainted with this subject to look into it prayerfully.

In the next paragraph in this chapter, we have Gabriel formally called by his name, and going to Nazareth to visit Mary, and understanding the position. The greatest thing is in mind. It has often been remarked that if an angel were told to sweep a crossing, he would do it. Whatever is needed in the will of God, the angels will do as directed, and this is characteristic of them. Now Gabriel is entrusted with the greatest message -- informing Mary of the incarnation, that a divine Person is about to become a Man. We are to understand that all these mighty beings are available for us in the greatest of our transactions, and in drawing near, this priestly angel -- in fact he is called a man -- sympathetically explains. How sympathetic he is with Mary! "Hail, thou favoured one! the Lord is with thee". What a word that is! how assuring! The greatest transaction is in mind, a divine transaction, but still she has to do with it, for Isaiah says, "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and shall bring forth a son, and call his name Immanuel" (Isaiah 7:14). How accredited she is in that remarkable scripture! And now Gabriel is before her, he has come to her; he goes in and says, "Hail, thou favoured one! the Lord is with thee". We need such stimulating words from priestly lips, sympathetic lips, as great matters are before us. It is a poor thing for any of us if he has not had a great matter to attend to. Christians are called into the greatest matters, and God would have us to understand their greatness, and He would have us to understand how to deal with them, and serve in them.

This was the greatest of all transactions in what it involved, the incarnation, but Mary has to do

with it. A poor person in Nazareth, yet heaven takes her into account, one of its dignitaries visits her, enters in unto her and greets her in the words mentioned above. Then he tells her the great and glorious story of how she is to be honoured. "Blessed art thou amongst women", he says; and, "Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favour with God; and behold, thou shalt conceive in the womb and bear a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus".

I am not going to occupy you with Michael by himself, but the facts recorded as to him bear on us, as to whether we understand that the great matters we are called into require angelic services. Of course, all services are under Christ: Michael's, and Gabriel's, and the services of every angel are under Christ. It is a question of what He is doing. The Spirit of God brings it home to us. I am not seeking to make ourselves great in our own minds in the flesh, we are unfit for any place at all before God as in the flesh, but think of what we are by the Spirit. In the chapter I have been calling attention to, Luke 1, it is said of the Lord: "He shall be great". It is not the greatness of a Simon, who gave out that he was great, but what enters into the incarnation is the greatness of Christ, the greatness of man in Christ. The greatness of man is involved, and as we understand that we have to do with great things, we become great persons in that sense. We are stimulated and encouraged by priestly service, as we see in Gabriel's communication to Mary. Mary would understand her great blessedness later when she was with the Lord. A certain woman said to the Lord, "Blessed is the womb that has borne thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked", but He said, "Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it". That is what christians are characteristically, and the blessing lies in that, so that the Lord through Gabriel, through a priestly

minister, encourages us as to our blessedness, as the Lord also said, "Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear" (Matthew 13:16).

Later on, the Lord met His lovers as He arose, and said, "All hail". He greets those who love Him and gives us to understand how great we are, and that we are persons called out for great things. It stimulates us to undertake and begin things in a spiritual way in the disallowance of the flesh. Mary says beautifully at the end, "Behold the bondmaid of the Lord; be it to me according to thy word". She is subject, and that is what characterises, in moral greatness, those who are called into the great things of christianity.

Now I come to Daniel to show how angelic service gives us understanding. It is not that angels are the teachers, but we see here how the principle of giving understanding is set out in Gabriel, who is called a man. It is said "the Lord will give thee understanding in all things" (2 Timothy 2:7). That is the point. Daniel is greatly concerned about the vision of the great empire before him. These matters are of great importance just now, and brethren should understand them as seen in the book of Daniel. He is particularly concerned about the little horn, which became so great, antichrist in character. And someone with a man's voice speaks and says, "Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision". You see how in answer to an inquiry of a soul as to these matters, understanding is given (Daniel 8:15 - 17). Gabriel is a great personage, but subservient to a human voice, which says, "Make this man to understand". In the verse read it says, "I Daniel had seen the vision". Let us take that in; we are prone to overlook important truths brought before us, and God is bringing things before us at the present time in view of the end. We have a word in Revelation 13:18, "He that has understanding

let him count the number of the beast". That is said to all the assemblies, it is not for the future only, but for the present. God would call our attention to what is current in a spiritual way, so that we might understand. Daniel is greatly concerned about what he sees, and a man stands before him and says in a man's voice, "Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision". Why should I not understand? Here is a human voice speaking to a man telling him in a most imperative way to give Daniel understanding. It is a great personage who speaks, evidently greater than Gabriel.

Then Daniel prays. He gets this part of his instruction and the next chapter shows what prayer is in these matters. In the ninth chapter, Daniel is not concerned about the empire of the beast. His book affords great instruction as to these matters, but he is now concerned in his prayer as to the time of the complete fulfilment of the divine counsels in regard to Jerusalem and God's people. Heaven was pleased with that. God is looking for prayers of this kind. What do these things mean that are transpiring? Has Scripture anything to say to us? Is there a voice to us? When will be the time of the end? We sometimes hear people speaking platitudes, that the Lord will come shortly, whereas there is no evidence of faith in the remarks. If we speak of the Lord's coming, it is because we love it, we are those who love His appearing. It is not simply the belief, but we love His appearing. "The Spirit and the bride say, Come". The Lord's appearing and entering into His rights is the idea. He has not yet come, He is still rejected; we show His death till He come, but He will come. Daniel wanted to know, having understood certain things by books; certain dates were given. We have no dates to go by, but we have promises to go by, and the Lord says the Father has reserved all as to times and

seasons in His own authority. Even the Son does not know, a remarkable word which we ought to understand, that the Lord has taken a subservient place in the economy of God, and everything is in the Father's hands.

Hebrews 10:37 says, "He that comes will come, and will not delay". Why should I be talking about His tarrying? He is not tarrying, He will not tarry a second when the moment comes. It is a question of the Father's will. The days are in His authority, and when the fixed day arrives, the Lord will come. For these things we do well to keep the Scripture before us. So, too, in regard to the falling asleep of the saints. Christians sometimes say 'Gone to heaven;' 'Going home;' but we should keep to Scripture, and such expressions go somewhat beyond Scripture. We add human words and thoughts when we should be using scriptural words and thoughts. Daniel had dates; he read Jeremiah, and in reading the Scriptures he got the mind of God. That will regulate our minds, feelings, and hopes accurately. So he prays, and confesses his sins, being a contrite, humble man. He did not say his fathers only had sinned, he also had sinned. He says, "Whilst I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before Jehovah my God for the holy mountain of my God; whilst I was yet speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, flying swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, Daniel, I am now come forth to make thee skilful of understanding". How beautiful this is! The Lord can do such things for us now; it is a priestly matter. Then Gabriel addresses Daniel in the same spirit as used in addressing Mary, calling him by name, saying "Thou art one greatly beloved".

How fully in the thing he was! What a man was Daniel in the regard of heaven! And so it says, "I am now come forth to make thee skilful of understanding". Not only was he to understand, but to be made "skilful of understanding". Then he says, "At the beginning of thy supplications the word went forth, and I am come to declare it; for thou art one greatly beloved". What can be more precious than a word like this? The Lord has His own way of telling us, as we do His will, that He is pleased with us. He gives us to understand that we are highly regarded by Him, "greatly beloved".

Then the angel proceeds, saying, "Seventy weeks are apportioned out upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to close the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make expiation for iniquity, and to bring in the righteousness of the ages, and to seal the vision and prophet, and to anoint the holy of holies". What a comforting word that is! -- seventy weeks and all this is to come to pass. What strengthening of heart! We are not given dates like Daniel, as the Lord Himself said, Acts 1:7 "It is not yours to know times or seasons, which the Father has placed in his own authority; but ye will receive power, the Holy Spirit having come upon you". It is for us to move in spiritual power, and if we do not get literal dates we get inklings of what is near at hand. The Lord gives us to understand things that indicate the finish. We do not assert things emphatically, but we get assurances, we get the sense of the position, we get to understand by the Spirit how the matter is, and we are restful. It is a question of the sensibilities of the assembly. The Lord stresses the Spirit as over against times and seasons. For us it is a question of the Spirit, everything lies in Him, "he shall guide you into all the truth". Note particularly what Scripture says. The Father has kept the times and seasons in His

own authority. Paul informs us in detail as to the Lord's coming, and we say to Him with the Spirit, "Come".

The special point in Daniel 9 is the finish of things, also how we get understanding, and become skilful in understanding. Today, as we are near the Lord, we get impressions as to His coming; and we put things together spiritually, so that we have assurance and can convey assurance to others. Thus we are kept steady and confident, and thus take our part in the service and testimony of God.

GUIDANCE

2 Kings 7:3 - 9; Acts 16:6 - 10; John 6:15 - 21

It is in mind to speak of guidance; such guidance as comes through righteous spiritual calculation. There is, of course, direct guidance for christians. The books of Exodus and Numbers teach us as to direct guidance from God through this dark world. It was never His thought to leave His people to find their own way through the world; so He came in for Israel, even in Egypt, and went before them in the cloud. Then, as the tabernacle was reared up, the cloud came down upon it, and the glory of Jehovah filled it. The people were to move. They had come out of Egypt by divine direction in the pillar, now they are to go through to Canaan, through the wilderness, in which there were no roads. And so they were to observe the pillar of cloud by day and the fire by night on the tabernacle. The tabernacle represented the testimony that God would render. It is indeed called the tabernacle of testimony, so that, whilst the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night were to guide, they were to guide in relation to the tent of testimony, which means for us that as we, believers in Christ, are concerned about God's testimony. As we recognise the assembly, disallowing all that is contrary to it, we shall find direct guidance from God.

That is the general position. Any Israelite taking it into his mind to separate himself from the system of things set up by Moses under God, and seeking to find his own way, would fall in that wilderness. His guidance depended on maintaining his position, the position divinely assigned to him, in relation to the tabernacle. Israel was divided into four camps of three tribes each, and they were to encamp around the tabernacle; one on the east, one on the south,

one on the west and one on the north. They were to remain in each camping place until the cloud lifted from the tabernacle, and then they were to move according to their allotted positions on the march. No one was to be governed by his own will. The governmental dealings of God required that the exercise of unjudged will in the wilderness meant death. The salvation of each Israelite depended on his moving as divinely directed, keeping his assigned position and, as encamped, watching for the lifting of the cloud. As the cloud lifted, movement began. The tents were pulled down, the tabernacle too, its furniture carefully covered and carried in the wilderness, and every Israelite moved on with it. Whether they encamped for a night, from evening only till the next morning, they would have to move on with it. If it were a day, or two days, or a month, or a year, they were to move only as the cloud lifted. So that the means of guidance was very definite. Everyone who had eyes to see could see when the time of movement had begun.

As I said, this is the great general position, for what I am speaking of from Exodus and Numbers is just a type of our own times. Some have chosen individual paths, many have grouped together and set up systems of religion of their own, but the only means of guidance is in relation to the assembly, for it is in relation to it that the cloud stands. If anyone thinks that I am referring to those who are designated 'brethren' as over against the others with a religious designation, it is an entire mistake. When I speak about the assembly, I speak about all christians. But when one speaks about the assembly in a concrete way, one is forced to think of those who recognise it, who move as of it, and who disallow all else in thought and practice. Such are certain to have divine guidance through this dark world. Darkness which may be felt is settling

down upon christendom, not only on heathendom and judaism, but on christendom, and it is most essential that we should understand how guidance is obtained, direct guidance from God. It is found, as I have been saying, in relation to the assembly, but what I have in mind, not ignoring what I have said, is guidance reached through righteous spiritual calculation. I use these words advisedly, for we may calculate selfishly, thinking only of what may accrue to us in reaching certain ends, therefore I stress the words righteous and spiritual.

I have selected first of all these four leprous men at the gate of Samaria, often used in gospel testimony and rightly so; but that is not what is in mind now. They represent persons who calculate righteously and, I may say, spiritually. They weigh thoughtfully the circumstances in which they are. They are able to say that if they do not do anything, they will die. Something, therefore, has to be done. Many come to that, not knowing what to do, but that something has to be done. It is a point of importance to determine that something has to be done. The next thing is, What is to be done? I must tax my intelligence, my discernment, my spirituality. I must tax my love too. I must calculate as to whether I am governed by love in facing my circumstances, whether I am thinking selfishly or in love.

Now these men were calculating, as I might say, sensibly. They were able to determine one thing -- that if they did not do anything they would die. Often we allow things to rest, knowing that something ought to be done and yet nothing is done, whereas God is testing us by the circumstances. He would bring out what He loves to see in us, the fruit of His work developing in His people. To this end He sometimes places us in circumstances occasioning a dilemma. Hezekiah, for instance, was sick. He

turned his face to the wall, meaning there was no outlet, but he prayed, he mourned, he did something. He did something, turned his face to the wall, which meant that he could go no further -- a dead stop, but he was able to pray. God heard his prayer and added fifteen years to his life, when he had given up life. These men, these lepers, accepted the fact that to do nothing meant death. Is it possible that God brings us to such a pass without an outlet? No. He always makes a way. We are told in 1 Corinthians 10 that God always makes an issue. He never allows us to be tempted beyond what we are able, but always makes an outlet. That is most important. We must therefore look about for the outlet. It is somewhere.

Now these leprous men said, "If we say, Let us enter into the city, the famine is in the city". They are right-thinking men. They do not say they will kill us. No, they will be in the same plight as those inside the gate. Those inside are no better than those outside. All are facing death. Then do not go there. "If we abide here", they said in their calculating, "we shall die". They were conversing at the gate. The gate was shut, I need not say. They were outside. According to Leviticus they should be. But a certain extraordinary set of circumstances had arisen, and those inside are little better than those outside, if any. 'Then we will not go inside, nor shall we stay as we are'. There is a way, at any rate there is a possible way -- 'let us go to the Syrians'. The Syrians are living men, they have food. What I am aiming at is to point out that as we calculate in this humble, simple way, we find some light. The more we dwell upon the situation, the more we shall find that there is some light. It was dusk indeed when they went out to the Syrians, but there was some light; and if there be some light, move in that.

In such circumstances we must challenge our hearts. Am I selfish? No. Well, there is light in that fact. It is the work of God. So that there is some light. Even although it be dusk, move in it. You say: I can hardly see a yard ahead of me. But, you do see a yard ahead of you, so move that way, the Lord is in that direction. That is the thought, move that way. These men moved thus, and the nearer they got to the Syrian camp, the more light they got. There were no men in the camp. "There was no man there". God had moved. God had observed these four lepers. He was going to use them for the deliverance of Israel. There is only a little light, but they are calculating righteously and in a balanced way. They are calculating according to intelligence, and they are moving in the little bit of light that they see through their calculations, and as they move in that direction God moves; and if God moves, victory is sure. The thing is reachable and would be presently reached -- the desired end.

And then what comes out is that these men are capable of right thinking in regard to others. They are not selfish men. They are immediately seeking the deliverance of those in the city. They want to live, and there is a little bit of light in which they are moving, which involves that they are not to die but to live; and now they think of others. As they reach the Syrian camp, they are tested as to their cupidity, as to their selfishness. They go into one tent and take silver and gold out of it and hide it, and they go into another and do the same. They are for the moment selfish. I have already alluded to this matter of selfishness, that it is the occasion of darkness in our souls. It is certain to occasion darkness. Now they have found the way of life, are they to be selfish? Deliverance has come to them. Are they to use what they get selfishly? This, indeed, is the secret of the whole matter in this passage, that

they immediately judge themselves and abandon their selfishness. They thus become persons who think for others. If I am not capable of thinking for others, I am scarcely worth speaking of morally. As soon as I begin to think of others, to deny selfishness, to act in any measure in love, I am a testimony to God.

These men are now sharing in the deliverance that moving in the light has brought them to. They are not selfish. For a moment they were, but they are able to judge themselves. "We are not doing right", they said. How many there are who, although obtaining deliverance through the gospel, are not doing right afterwards! Let us challenge our hearts, dear brethren, as to this matter. Are we doing right? Deliverance according to Romans, the great foundational epistle, leads a believer to find his feet; and he says, "I myself with the mind serve God's law". One constantly comes back to this -- that a believer finds his feet; but in what way? "I myself" I am resolved to be a righteous man, to do the will of God. And these men say "We are not doing right". They might have carried on and hidden all the wealth there was in the camp of the Syrians, but they did not right in doing it, and judged their conduct. Hence the next chapter in Romans says, "that the righteous requirement of the law should be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to flesh but according to Spirit" (Romans 8:4).

So that guidance, such as I am speaking of now, leads into that position -- that I begin to see that I must do the will of God. God is not helping me to acquire my own selfish ends at all. He is helping me in order that I may reflect Him, at least in some little way. "We are not doing right", they say. "Let us go and tell the king's household", we should not be acting selfishly. The secret of the want of guidance with many of God's people is just this, that

selfishness is at the bottom of their exercises; whereas a righteous holy calculation in a time of uncertainty will certainly bring us into light. Even although it is dusk at the beginning, it will gradually lead us on into the clear shining of the day, and in the light of that day I judge myself, and walk in the light as God is in the light. If I am doing what is wrong, I am not in the way of God. So they tell the king's household. Let us not forget the king's household. If light and deliverance have come through the guidance I have been speaking of, I am not to be selfish in the result, but unselfish. "If we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another" (1 John 1:7); that is, we think of the king's household. Let us not forget. No selfish person really thinks of the king's household. He thinks of himself. Seeking the king's household is consideration for the Lord and His people.

So that we shall find a clear shining of day as we calculate righteously and spiritually. It may be just dusk for a while, but it will be gradually the clear shining of God, and I walk in that. And, as I said, as walking in the light as God is in the light, we have fellowship with one another. We think of the king's household, that is, all christians. One challenges one's own heart as to the brethren with whom one is walking, whether one may not be too narrow, forgetting the wideness of the interests of God here below. The more excellent way, the way of surpassing excellence, is to widen out in love, and take account of all that belongs to God in this world. Walking in the light as God is in the light, we think of the brethren. So in this city the Lord is helping His people. Perplexity indeed there may have been, but as we move in whatever little light we have, God will be with us. No one who loves God wants to make one inch of movement until he is assured

that he is right; and as it is right, God is in it. God will soon make it manifest that He is in it, and we shall come to the king's household. In this city we are in it in relation to everyone that belongs to God in it.

Well now, I want to show from Acts 16 how the apostle Paul and those who laboured with him moved. As I have been saying, the Lord could easily have told Paul that the preaching was to be in Europe; but He did not do so. The Spirit, we are told, would not allow him to preach the word in Asia, verse 6, and verse 7 says, "having come down to Mysia, they attempted to go to Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them". All that is searching. Is there something wrong with Paul? Could another serve better than he in those fields? That would be the way it would come to him. Twice over he is hindered. Do not go there, the Spirit says, and yet He does not tell Paul where to go. These are remarkable things. The point is, Can I transfer this to myself? Can each of us enquire as to himself, why these happenings, why these circumstances? Well, the apostle Paul does not seem to be overwhelmed by uncertainty. A vision appears in the night to him (verse 9). The night suggests that there was some darkness, but there was a vision, and it appeared to him. Let us be looking out for this. If the circumstances are extraordinary, there may be other such circumstances which will be light to me. Let me wait for these, for if God brings in one extraordinary circumstance, He can bring in another, and this other may be what I need. So then let me tax my mind; my resolve being to do the will of God. I have begun with that in mind. I have resolved to do nothing else but the will of God. Let me begin with that. Next, Am I selfish in my service? Do I seek a name in it? Do I seek any material gain in it? Let me challenge

my heart about all these things. Why these baffling things? Something is to be searched out. David says, "Search me, O God, and know my heart; prove me, and know my thoughts; And see if there be any grievous way in me; and lead me in the way everlasting" (Psalm 139:23, 24). That is a wholesome challenge.

Now this vision in the night appears to Paul, and he hears a Macedonian man speaking. How did he know that it was a Macedonian man? Was it by his dress? It is remarkable that God should take that apparently roundabout way to introduce the testimony into Europe, but it was the way. Immense results were to accrue from all this, and it was most remarkable that the ministry should come into Europe after such severe exercises. That is the point. I have to go through these exercises: the result is so important that I must go through them. God says, as it were, I require you to go through them. Then I must be subject. I have resolved already. I have made a vow as in Romans that I will serve God's law. God is pleased with that. Every moment of my life that I carry out that resolve I am pleasing to God. Now He says, Do not go there. Well, where shall I go? There is no evidence that Paul was perturbed. A Macedonian man says, "Pass over into Macedonia and help us".

I have now come to the verse that was in mind in reading this passage (verse 10). "And when he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go forth to Macedonia, concluding that the Lord had called us to announce to them the glad tidings". I want the brethren to look at this expression, "concluding". A process has been gone through, a series of circumstances, causing perhaps uncertainty, but now the facts are all put together in the renewed, righteous mind of the apostle, and he concludes. He concluded

what was right, and that is "that the Lord had called us to announce to them the glad tidings". With what firm tread the apostle would move on, as indeed, we are told, he did, from Troas, where he was, to Philippi! He had extraordinarily painful experiences in Philippi, but still the sequel shows great results. The gospel came into Europe to stay for eighteen centuries with the most blessed results.

Now the final passage, in John 6, bears on all that I have said. They wanted to make the Lord king. He had been feeding the multitude, and the men who witnessed this sign wished to make Him king, and He goes up into a mountain. His disciples go into a ship to cross the sea. He does not tell them to do it. According to Matthew and Mark He did tell them, but not according to John, who says, "But when evening was come, his disciples went down to the sea, and having gone on board ship, they went over the sea to Capernaum". That is what they did, coming to a decision themselves. According to the subsequent verses they did what was right. They did what was the only thing to do at the moment. The Lord did not tell them to do it, according to this passage. He had gone up -- He was alone -- pointing to our dispensation, in which He has gone up. As the Lord was about to be taken up from the apostles, as you will remember, He said many things to them; but in various matters He left them to decide what would be done: as for instance, to appoint another apostle. So it is that the Lord taxes, as it were, our growth and experience. He would say to you: You do that, I leave it with you. He has given us understanding. John says, "We know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding that we should know him that is true" (1 John 5:20). What is that understanding for? It is to do what has to be done. If it is to be done, do it, do not ask the Lord; ask Him for help, of

course, but what thy hand finds to do, do it. An apostle had to be appointed, and they selected two, and put the two before God, "and the lot fell on Matthias".

Here in John 6 the Lord does not say, Go across to Capernaum; but they did that. The Lord intended them to do it, and they did it. Having gone they rowed twenty-five or thirty stadia, and this exercise is noted. The Spirit of God tells us about how many stadia they rowed. Is it for nothing that we are told? Was it in self-will? No; they are going in the right direction. The Spirit tells us what they did, and they having done it, the Lord walks on the water so that they see Him. He says, "It is I: be not afraid:" as much as to say, You are going in the right direction, and I am coming to support you in what you are doing. Is that not comforting? Let us then be honest men and women in our circumstances, let us think honestly, according to the instincts of the work of God. He will certainly make a way for us. And so the passage here says, as you will observe, "But he says to them, It is I: be not afraid. They were willing therefore to receive him into the ship; and immediately the ship was at the land to which they went". Not where He went, but to which they went. He is honouring them. The end is reached. The end that you have in mind is reached and the Lord is saying, I am with you in it. They received Him gladly into the ship, and as they did, the end is reached. That is what I had in mind to call attention to at this time. We have arrived at difficult times. Paul says, "difficult times shall be there" (2 Timothy 3:1). They are here now. Let us be honest men and women. Let us challenge our hearts as to what is in them, what our motives are, whether they are selfish motives, or whether they are the more

excellent way, the way of love. In the latter the Lord is with us, saying, "It is I". As we receive Him into our matters, the end is reached at once, reached by us, and it is the right end, that which is according to God.

THE INHERITANCE AND ITS BORDERS

Ezekiel 47:13, 14; Ezekiel 48:1, 20; Psalm 45:7 - 11

J.T. It is in view to call attention to certain thoughts that God intends should be in our minds as in His service. These thoughts in connection with the inheritance which we share together as in assembly as brethren, show how provision is made for Christ to have two portions, as seen in Joseph. The last is an outstanding thought in this section. Then the borders of the land as in the remaining part of chapter 47, with provision made for the stranger, in verses 22 and 23.

Chapter 48 shows the inheritance of each tribe from the east to the west, there being no irregular borders as in the book of Joshua. Beginning with verse 8 to the end of 22 we have the Spirit of God enlarging on the portion that is called "the heave offering", as that which is for God in general. Other thoughts appear, particularly the city at the end, wherein the tribes appear again, but in general that is what is in mind in Ezekiel, in these passages. The psalm confirms the place of Christ as Beloved, "anointed ... with the oil of gladness above thy companions", corresponding with the portions for Joseph first mentioned. Then, in the psalm, we have the position of the queen, and the power of forgetfulness, which also corresponds with Joseph, who learned in Egypt to forget his toil and his father's house. These thoughts I think may be profitable to consider at this time. It is a matter of importance what is in our minds in sitting down together at the Lord's supper and proceeding with the service of God, for our minds are to be enriched. There are many other features, but the thought is that Christ as seen in Joseph might be before us now.

E.W.C. Does it suggest that as Joseph inherited with his people in their entrance into the inheritance, Joseph having two portions amongst the brethren, that the Lord inherits now with His people?

J.T. It brings the Lord in as amongst us, but provision is made for His personal distinction. The passage directs our minds to Genesis, where Joseph is a leading typical figure.

E.B.McC. In what is determined by God here, that Joseph should have the double portion, is there the recognition of who he is and of what he has wrought?

J.T. The reaction of scripture to what had been said earlier is remarkable. The references to Genesis throughout Scripture are outstanding, and Joseph represents a spiritual thread particularly in Genesis. Jacob represents the Father; of course, Abraham does too, but Jacob moved out of Padan-Aram as Joseph was born, implying that Joseph gives the spiritual touch, and throughout the history of Jacob, Joseph is in mind. He is the loved one, Jacob loved him above all his sons. Psalm 45 is 'a song of the Beloved'. Joseph in Egypt typifies Christ amongst the gentiles; Jacob moves out to him there. Genesis 48 brings out the father's affections and the sovereign placing of families, including Joseph's place as having one portion above his brethren. That thought is to be kept in mind throughout. It is in view now in Ezekiel, and comes in in view of the inheritance which the tribes are to share together.

Rem. Joseph was only very young when put in front of his mother.

J.T. You are alluding to Genesis 33, where Jacob's meeting with Esau is mentioned. The incident shows that Joseph is the spiritual link in the book of Genesis in the history of Jacob.

E.B.McC. We see him glorified by his father by

the gift of the coat of many colours. He is distinguished in that way with glory.

J.T. He is marked out, and begins his mission as a revealer of secrets in that chapter in a household way. His dreams refer to the household, his father and mother and eleven brothers. Then his interpretations are seen in prison, then in the royal court of Pharoah; so that as we follow Joseph in Genesis, we are on spiritual lines and reach the father; he is subordinate to the father, but honoured in that he has a double portion.

A.M.H. Whilst God, the Father, has given Christ this special portion, are you bringing Ezekiel before us to show that we give it to Him? As for instance in the Song of Songs 2:3, "As the apple-tree among the trees of the wood, So is my beloved among the sons".

J.T. Yes. Ezekiel adds greatly to the idea of the inheritance, it varies from what we get in Joshua, giving straight lines for dividing the tribes, all sharing alike. The passage says, "ye shall inherit it, one as well as another, the land concerning which I lifted up my hand to give it unto your fathers; and this land shall fall to you for inheritance". Then we have "the border of the land", that is, the boundary. But, as we have said, the outstanding thought is that provision is made for Christ at the outset. Whilst He shares with us, and is recognised in a mutual way, yet His Person is always guarded. In chapter 48 from verse 8 to the end of verse 22, we have God's portion, of which much more is made, of course, and this should be noticed in this setting. It is to be in mind in regard to the assembly; such a great portion is for God. It is called the heave-offering. "The whole heave-offering shall be five and twenty thousand by five and twenty thousand; ye shall offer the holy heave-offering foursquare with the possession of the city".

We get this at the end where all the tribes are represented, "and the name of the city from that day, Jehovah is there". In connection with these thoughts we have the presence of God.

E.W.C. What is the distinction between the setting of the inheritance here, and the setting in Joshua?

J.T. As already remarked, the possessions of the tribes in Joshua had irregular boundaries, and one tribe seems to encroach on another, and this might cause irritation. There is nothing of that in Ezekiel. The inheritance is apportioned in Joshua first to those who valued the inheritance, that is Judah and Joseph. Judah, as represented in Caleb, comes forward asking for his inheritance; and Joseph comes forward in the daughters of Zelophehad. They get their inheritance first. The remaining tribes obtained their inheritance by lot at Shiloh, Joshua having rebuked them for their slothfulness. In this section of Ezekiel we have great spiritual wealth contemplated; the river of God, that flows out of the house being mentioned here. A river is a source of wealth; the saints take on the wealth afforded to them by the Spirit, so that there is no danger of irritation being caused by what might appear irregular, that is some possessing more than others. These are the thoughts that are to be in our minds; the wealth of the river, then the boundaries of the inheritance, as the passage says, "This shall be the border whereby ye shall allot the land as inheritance according to the twelve tribes of Israel". Then there is Joseph; let us not forget that Joseph has the extra allotment -- two portions; Christ is at once set in your mind. Before there is any allotment we must always make room for Christ.

C.F.I. Are these portions suggested in Psalm 45?

J.T. We shall come to that, and we shall see that the link is with Joseph in the psalm, the heading of which refers to the Beloved, and full provision is made for Him. Christ is the King, and the writer is welling up with good matter concerning Him; he is full of Christ who has affected his heart powerfully. Christ is seen as anointed with the oil of gladness above His companions. That brings us to our chapter here. The companions come in afterwards, each getting a portion on the feminine side which the psalm indicates, because the queen is in mind. Joseph's wife was a gentile, and in Egypt he learned to forget his toil and his father's house; the allusion is to a state of forgetfulness of what is unsuitable in the assembly. The daughter is to forget, too. "Hearken, daughter, and see, and incline thine ear; and forget thine own people and thy father's house". That brings us into accord with Joseph, it is a question of state, whether we are free as though those relationships did not exist; free from all natural links.

Rem. As carrying these thoughts in our minds, we would be enriched in our service Godward.

J.T. That is what I was thinking. Scripture is full of thoughts we should have, and they are essential to prosperity in the service of God.

C.H.H. Is the double portion of Joseph in relation to divine service a necessary regulating thought? I was thinking of the intimacy that love brings us into, but the true Joseph is still to have the double portion?

J.T. That is never to be lost sight of, and then the straight lines of Ezekiel 48 are regulating. There is no suggestion of any irritation or anything to grieve the Spirit in the service. Then there is the great scope given to the divine portion, that which is for God. We must distinguish between what is for Joseph, as related to the tribes, and what is for God.

The holy heave-offering is for God, and this comes in as outstanding in the chapter from verse 8 to 22. It requires great attention to get the details as to the measurements, but clearly the proportionate extent of the heave-offering is very great.

C.F.I. What is the link in the service of God in passing over from what is due to Christ, and what is due to God?

J.T. You can see that Christ is in charge of everything, Joseph represents that, "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand". The Lord is over everything in the service as High Priest, and as we proceed, everything must converge on Him. So that it is the Lord's supper, hence everything as to it refers to Him. When our position is defined, everything is regular and there is no suggestion of irritation. There is thus room for the Spirit. He will be regarded as the Holy Spirit in relation to the Lord (1 Corinthians 12:3), the Spirit of adoption in relation to the Father, and the Spirit of God in relation to God.

A.M.H. Is your thought that we should give more time to the development of what is for God in our gatherings?

J.T. Yes. There should be proper scope for Christ too, but we are limited because of the allotted time for the service. Ezekiel 48 would indicate that a good proportion ought to be for God, and we should never lose sight of that. We have here the city where all the tribes appear, and God is there.

C.F.I. In connection with the portion for God, have you in mind our speaking to God in the light of relationships established in ascension, or on a lower level?

J.T. It is a question of what is in the mind of the person who addresses Him. There is only one word for God in our language, and it would have to be indicated what was in the mind of the speaker if

he uses the term God in speaking to God. "There is one God, the Father". It would seem as if the service requires that God should be apprehended as the Father and spoken to as the Father, then spoken to viewed as God "all in all" -- it is God all in all. That ought to be the great end before us.

E.B.McC. "The king's daughter is all glorious within" would bring in the saints, but Joseph comes in as having a double portion, and God has what is mentioned here -- the great portion.

J.T. That is the way the truth stands, but the feminine side is provided for in the psalm, and it has indeed a great place, verse 9. "Kings' daughters are among thine honourable women; upon thy right hand doth stand the queen in gold of Ophir". Then, on a lower level, we have, verse 10, "Hearken, daughter, and see, and incline thine ear; and forget thine own people and thy father's house". It seems to me that the word "forget" there should be linked on with Christ as seen in Joseph. It leads us into our own position now. Ephesians 2:22 contemplates the gentiles "built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit". "Ye also" -- Christ is the chief Corner Stone -- it is a state of forgetfulness in us. Christ, like Joseph, has forgotten His toil and His father's house for the moment, and the daughter is to hearken, and to forget her father's house and her own people. It is a state of forgetfulness -- things that are forgotten have their legitimate place, but, as in assembly, we are free of them for the moment.

L.M. Does that state of forgetfulness depend on satisfaction?

J.T. It requires power in the soul, too; in partaking of the Lord's supper we need power to call Him to mind. It is an active power in the mind, power to bring in what is positive, to bring Christ to mind. It is the same power in forgetfulness, the

power in the mind to forget, not simply that we lay the thing aside, but we are in a state of forgetfulness as to all that is extraneous at the moment.

L.D.M. How much depends on the saints sitting down in satisfaction and being able to move forward as drinking into one Spirit!

C.F.I. Would you say we can be there in the restful liberty suggested in the queen standing on the right hand in gold of Ophir?

J.T. Yes. The queen is the full feminine thought in assembly service, answering to Christ; He has her at His right hand. He would have some answer to Himself in that respect, but the way to it is that the daughter inclines her ear and forgets her own people and her father's house. There is the power of forgetfulness of what is merely natural. The things might be legitimate at other times, but not now -- it is a state we get into. It all lies in the Spirit. First, focus the mind. "I myself with the mind serve God's law" (Romans 7:25). I have control of it, and by that power we call Christ to mind in the memorials. Correspondingly we have power to forget.

W.H.W. It needs the power of the renewed mind (Romans 12:2). Is there significance in the fact that before we get what is due to God, Judah is brought in -- his name means praise.

J.T. The heave-offering is between Judah and Benjamin. Verse 7 brings in Judah and verse 23 Benjamin, "And as for the rest of the tribes: from the east side unto the west side, Benjamin one portion". It is Judah and Benjamin, the same link which existed under Joshua. We have excellent relations between these. Judah is the leading brother, and in Psalm 68 we have "little Benjamin".

F.J.F. Is there any difference between the power of forgetfulness and the power of abstraction, that we had before us previously?

J.T. It is a cognate thought. Really, the power of abstraction enables us to forget, shutting out all else.

E.B.McC. In referring to the queen in Psalm 45, you said that this is the highest thought of the assembly.

J.T. It is the greatest thought in this connection, it is not the body, but a royal position that she is in. The queen at His right is an abstract thought in the service. We have suggested here the full thought of the assembly, which is ever before the Lord. He loved the assembly and gave Himself for it -- the whole thought is always in His mind, and He would have it in our minds. We come to it, by way of the daughter, who hearkens and forgets.

W.H.W. Does the queen give us the thought of His complement?

J.T. It does, but here it is not the body, but a royal thought which He would ever have before Him, and would look for an answer to in the service; yet not to enlarge it unduly, but as making room for the holy heave-offering for God. All must have God in view, "of him ... and for him are all things".

E.W.C. What is suggested by the Lord forgetting? In what connection does He forget?

J.T. He forgets His relations with Israel. God had made Joseph to forget his toil and his father's house. God made him do that. It was the state he was in, so he had no ungratified longings in Egypt. It was a state by itself. God had made him to forget, otherwise he would have longed for his father's house and sought to go back to it; but Jacob and his family go to him. The type requires this.

E.B.McC. Joseph says, "Tell my father of all my glory in Egypt".

J.T. That was to bring his father there, so Jacob comes out. It is all a spiritual matter. If you follow the thread represented in Joseph you will reach the Father, outside of judaism, in a state of forgetfulness of all that attaches to the natural.

F.J.F. Was that power seen in Paul?

J.T. The link with the Jews was very strong with him, but he overcame it. It is remarkable, but I suppose his history is intended to show us how strong the Jewish link was; the link with his brethren in the flesh. He should not have gone to Jerusalem, but it was because of his love for them that he went; the mystery requires a state of forgetfulness of all that.

C.H.H. Is the suggestion in chapter 47 that in mutuality and the power of forgetfulness the inheritance is entered into, and the outcome is that God gets His full portion?

J.T. Yes. This is a matter to be looked into each by himself. Such wonderful measurements we get in the holy heave-offering, proportionally very large and specified, whereas the portions for the tribes are not measured at all. The thought I have is that the brethren are not thinking of that, they are not enlarging on their portion; God is everything.

C.H.H. Do we spend too much time in the divine service on our own portion as against the goodly portion that is mentioned here for God?

J.T. No doubt. The assembly has God in view: glory to God in the assembly.

W.H.W. Does the link with Joseph act in setting us free from the world, as suggested in Jacob leaving Padan-Aram?

J.T. That is the beginning of the spiritual touch right through in Jacob. As Joseph is born he proposes to leave Padan-Aram. He was detained, but what was the thought. The time had now come

to leave. It runs right through till he is with Joseph in Egypt outside of Canaan. We have in the river here, chapter 47, a very remarkable type of spiritual power and fruitfulness. In it the Spirit brings Himself before us. We have in John 16:13, "he shall not speak from himself;" not that He does not speak of Himself, but not from Himself; it is what He hears He speaks. We are constantly brought back to the Spirit. In Ezekiel 47, after the prophet has found out that the river cannot be passed through, he says (verses 6 and 7), "he led me, and brought me back to the bank of the river. When I returned, behold, on the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other". As we carefully go back to any subject in Scripture, we are sure to see something we had not seen before. So these trees are the fruit of the river, in fact he calls it "the double river" in the second section, showing that the thought is increasing in his mind, and these trees are there, all pointing to fruitfulness.

W.H.W. Does all this suggest the great spiritual wealth that we may draw upon in connection with the service of God?

J.T. That is the end in mind in the book of Ezekiel. Up to the end of chapter 39 we have generally Israel's failure and God's faithfulness to her, but from chapter 40 onwards, the ministry bears on the service of God. The more we look into these chapters the more enriched we shall be, specially in regard to this river -- it is to be proved in one's experience. It is an infinite thought, involving the Spirit, who is a divine Person. It is said to be "a river that I could not pass through". You come back and see something not seen before. That is a point of greatest importance in divine things, specially in regard to divine Persons. We are brought back to a passage often considered, and see something different, something new. In verse 7

it says "When I returned, behold, on the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other".

F.W.W. It would encourage us to be on the lookout for new fruit.

J.T. That is just the point in going back. Verse 6, "And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? And he led me, and brought me back to the bank of the river. When I returned ..." That is the thing, the man brought him back, but he returned, that is, he was interested. "Behold, on the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other. And he said unto me, These waters issue out toward the east district, and go down into the plain, and go into the sea; when they are brought forth into the sea, the waters thereof shall be healed". He is brought back and learns that "by the river, upon its bank, on the one side and on the other, shall grow all trees for food, whose leaf shall not fade, nor their fruit fail: it shall bring forth new fruit every month, for its waters issue out of the sanctuary; and the fruit thereof shall be for food, and the leaf thereof for medicine". That is very remarkable.

D.R. Should we be continually expectant of fresh disclosures in this service?

J.T. On those lines. He says the man brought him back, and he returned. He was fully with his leader, therefore you get all this, down to the end of verse 12, in regard to the river.

L.D.M. He is brought back to the door of the house.

J.T. Yes. "He brought me back to the door of the house; and behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward" (chapter 47: 1). It is as brought back that Ezekiel sees the waters issuing from the house. Leadership is a thought running through these chapters, beginning with the

fortieth. As we are amenable to spiritual leadership we shall get fresh disclosures.

F.W.W. What do you mean by that?

J.T. What we have in these meetings as we come together in a mutual way. Where room is made for the Spirit things can come up freshly. So here we find remarkable freshness, vitality and fruitfulness from the river. And then how Christ is honoured in these circumstances, as we have noted. There is a double portion for Joseph, and the brethren are content with what they have. They are not vying with one another, but are content with their portion, and there is a full portion for God -- the holy heave-offering; and the administrative state in the city where all the tribes are represented, and God is there.

H.R. Does the question of leadership and the moral state of the people, as in Joshua, have to be established before the division of the land?

J.T. That is what the earlier chapters of Joshua bring out, especially at Gilgal where the reproach of Egypt was rolled away, where they ate the old corn of the land. The inheritance is given to heavenly people, and typically they were brought into a state of heavenly-mindedness.

F.J.F. Should we always be ready to give the Lord His double portion, leaving time for what is for God?

J.T. That is my thought, and in the assembly we recognise the authority of Christ. When Rebecca arrived at the end of the journey, Isaac was in the field coming from the well at Beer-lahai-roi, and he was meditating. Rebecca enquired who was the man, and the servant replied, "My master!" He did not say, 'My master's son'. It was a question of the general position in which the assembly is set. Christ as Lord is owned there. The Holy Spirit maintains that. Joseph was lord of all Egypt, but as

type of Christ, according to what we get here, he is one of the brethren, but as among the brethren he has a double portion; that is to say, when the Lord recognises us as His brethren, we make provision for His Person. He is not just one of us, He is above us, but He is pleased to be amongst us.

W.H.W. He graciously identifies Himself with us as His brethren. We on our side recognise that He is above us, being anointed with the oil of gladness above His companions. When Judah recognised Joseph's position, it seems to result in Joseph expressing his affection for Benjamin.

J.T. The link between Judah and Benjamin is very interesting. How beautifully Judah speaks about him in Genesis 44. I think Benjamin is abstractly the brother; the overcomer. In the circumstances, he is always an object of his father's affections. Judah is the brother in activity, the brother who knows what to say, who understands the father's feelings, and understands Benjamin, too, and the place relatively he had in the family. We need these two thoughts. The abstract thought links us definitely with Christ, because Benjamin is more a brother to Joseph than any of the others, being of the same mother. Joseph gives him that place, too, in the disclosures in Genesis 45, but Judah is the one who prevails above his brethren for good. The king comes from Judah, "of him came the chief ruler".

C.H.H. You spoke of the oil of gladness -- would you say a little more about that? It seems very attractive.

J.T. The assembly ought to be the place of gladness, not a place of dolefulness. The Lord's supper promotes gladness and satisfaction.

C.F.I. He is not ashamed to call us brethren. But we give Him His distinctive place, and that would make way for the heave-offering for God.

J.T. Yes; as He is fully owned. We see in these allotments in Ezekiel 48, that when we come to Judah, we get the heave-offering, which is suggestive, because he is the active brother; he understands. In Genesis he brings about the full result in Joseph; whilst Judah is speaking, Joseph could not control himself, and had every man put out. He would make himself known to his brethren. It is Judah's speech and attitude that affect him; so you feel it is in keeping with this that the heave-offering comes in by the border of Judah; and when that is described, we get Benjamin.

E.B.McC. When the state exists in the assembly where He is free to declare the Father's name unto His brethren, would that link on here?

J.T. Just so. Judah is the brother who is practical in the assembly. What he says in Genesis brings about the change. Joseph would have everyone put out now. It is now a time for family relations and affections. Joseph calls attention to his mouth to show it was himself, and then the special expression of affection towards Benjamin, and he kissed and wept on all his brothers. He also sends his father a message.

E.B.McC. There is a remarkable state of mind found in Psalm 45. The mind is fixed, under control, and thus brings in rich thoughts as to Christ. "Thou art fairer than the sons of men". It would greatly enrich us if our minds were set in that way.

J.T. It is one of the Maschil psalms, a psalm of instruction, a song of the Beloved, a very rich psalm. It alludes to the power of the Spirit in the soul, making much of Christ, the heart welling up with the good matter of what it has composed. The service of song comes in under David, and David, of course, is of Judah. "Hear, Lord, the voice of Judah and bring him to his people". This would include prayer. Judah is marked by prayer. David

prayed, Solomon prayed; also Hezekiah; and Jabez (1 Chronicles 4:10). The king is subservient to the service of God, but kingship is required because of its power, as in David, to make provision for the service as depicted in 1 Chronicles. What David was and did is attributed to the tribe of Judah. When Israel came out of Egypt "Judah was his sanctuary" (Psalm 114:2). You can understand why Judah's portion is given, and then the holy heave-offering involving the service of God, and then Benjamin. The same thing is seen in Jerusalem, which really belonged to Benjamin, but it came to Judah, being a supreme thought in connection with David; meaning that true brotherly feelings and love prevailed between Judah and Benjamin.

W.H.W. Love in that way doing away with boundaries, would you say?

J.T. Quite so; love overcomes, it never fails us. It was in the divine mind that Jerusalem should be in the hands of Judah, the city of the great King. The Lord Himself calls it that, but it primarily belonged to Benjamin.

F.J.F. So those happy relationships among the brethren lie behind the service.

J.T. If the relations are not right, as seen here, you cannot have the heave-offering, what God would stress. What we are looking at now is the beautiful relations amongst the tribes, nothing to cause friction, no irregular borders. If God allows angles to cause discipline, that is His way, but not here in actual service.

L.D.M. Here they offer the holy heave-offering foursquare with the possession of the city. Is that what you have been saying as to the brethren being together and God getting His portion, "foursquare with the possession of the city".

J.T. The city is an additional thought to bring in the administrative side. The heave-offering is one

thing, but the city seems to be treated as the administrative side by itself, and all the tribes are there again in another setting, three on each side, and then Jehovah is there (chapter 48). The administrative side secures the presence of God week in and week out amongst us in a general way.

E.B.McC. Conditions should be such that the holy heave-offering and the sanctuary are found in the midst of the brethren.

F.J.F. We get the apostle rising to the thought of God at the end of certain sections of his ministry. He bursts out into worship.

J.T. That is in keeping with the Lord's words, "my Father and your Father ... my God and your God". God is the final thought. "God ... all in all" (1 Corinthians 15:28), not God all and all, but all in all. The state in the saints makes room for Him and no room for anything else.

ENTERING THE HOLIEST

Psalm 72:20; Psalm 73:1 - 28

In what I have to say at this time, David will be prominent. He is mentioned in the verse read in Psalm 72: "The prayers of David the son of Jesse are ended". Were they all written down we would have had a large book of prayer. No doubt allusion is made in this verse to the fact that he was characterised by prayer. Why should his prayers be ended? We have to enquire into this matter. David is clearly honoured by the Spirit of God calling attention to his prayers; as indeed all who pray characteristically are honoured. Solomon's prayer, recorded in 1 Kings 8, is the longest in Scripture, and God said to him, "I have heard thy prayer;" not only did God hear it, but as it was finished, He signalised it by filling with glory the house that Solomon had built. God so valued that prayer.

I mention these facts for our encouragement, that we may be marked by prayer. The Lord, the true Solomon and the true David, speaking to men said that "they should always pray and not faint". He is Himself seen praying, as you will remember, some ten times in Luke, mentioned there, no doubt, because priesthood is in mind. Priests are marked by prayer; we are a holy priesthood and should be marked by prayer. God honours us as praying; even the Lord Jesus Himself, as He was praying, was acknowledged from heaven, according to Luke, as the Father's beloved Son; and indeed it was "as he prayed", Luke says, that He was transfigured before His disciples; God thus honours prayer. Luke further tells us that one of His disciples asked Him to teach them to pray. Just after the narrative of His visit to Martha's house, he says, "And it came to pass as he was in a certain place praying,

when he had ceased, one of his disciples said to him, Lord, teach us to pray" (Luke 11:1), which He did. Doubtless He had Mary and Martha in His mind when He was praying. All these facts are most important for us at this time when prayer is so essential.

I proceed now to show by the Lord's help, how these Psalms, 72 and 73, fit into the present moment -- the former referring to David's prayers ending, and the latter introducing his great musician and singer, Asaph. My remarks in the main will refer to these two great servants of God, having the service of God in the sanctuary in mind. Great stress has been laid upon it of recent years, and it will continue, for God is looking for the very best from His people at the present time. David and Asaph represent this; they represent in type the best that the Holy Spirit produces in the saints for God.

We have other allusions of this kind to David, not in regard to his prayers but in regard to his words. The second book of Samuel records "the last words" of David -- a very formal statement (chapter 23). They allude to kingship. It is important that we should have the light of kingship at the present time. We are living in times foreseen in the book of Daniel, the time of the iron and clay, which do not mix. It is important, therefore, that we should have the light of kingship, which really hinges on sonship. The glory and lustre of royalty depend on sonship, so that Psalm 2:6, 7 tells us of the Son and at the same time of God's King. "I have anointed my king upon Zion, the hill of my holiness". And then to the Son it is, "Thou art my Son; I this day have begotten thee". So that sonship and kingship go together. The Son is King, and hence the description that David gives us of kingship refers to Christ. David does not say that he was all that he says a king should be; he was not, nor could any mortal be all that a king should be.

David's description is abstract, but it has a full concrete expression in Christ. He is all that could be desired in kingship. "The ruler among men shall be just, Ruling in the fear of God; And he shall be as the light of the morning, like the rising of the sun, A morning without clouds; When from the sunshine after rain, The green grass springeth from the earth" (2 Samuel 23:3, 4). He is, in a word, a divine provision, par excellence, for man. It is what David says in his last words. If we have not David himself, we have his last words brought down to us by inspiration, and the Holy Spirit within us giving fulness to them, so that we should have kingship in our hearts and be able like the psalmist in Psalm 45:1 to say, "My heart is welling forth with a good matter: I say what I have composed touching the king. My tongue is the pen of a ready writer". It is a feature of moment in these modern times as they become more and more accentuated and every godly man is concerned. David's last words are intended to have a great place in our hearts that there is such a King, not simply a desire for Him, but the very King Himself in all His infinite greatness, the King of kings, sitting at the right hand of God. David's last words are to be honoured in our souls in the power of the Spirit, so that we might go through the maze of current political principles as they become more and more oppressive, and that we might be subject to the powers that be, whatever their character. At the same time, we should have the sense of victory in our souls in the apprehension of the King as described by David.

Another thing that comes out in David's last words refers to young people. By the last words of David, the Levites were numbered from twenty years and upwards instead of twenty-five or thirty. In a typical sense young people are thus authorised to take part in assembly service five years earlier

than was usual. That David should have thought of this in his last words is of great significance, especially as the statement is found in relation to the service of God. Let us read these scriptures as applying to ourselves. That is how we get the force of them. Let young people here read 1 Chronicles 23, with the thought that it is written for them, that they have a right from God to take part in the assembly at an early age. It is as if the Spirit of God was thinking of you young people, even centuries ago, so that you should be free to take part as regulated by other scriptures in the divine service, beginning at twenty years of age. You will understand it is not literal, that it is a question of spiritual stature, and that the service of God in the land -- in the assembly viewed thus -- is less onerous than it is in the wilderness. That is the point that David makes. Young people, as believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. Thus they are qualified to have part in the assembly, "in whom ye also have trusted, ... having believed, ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the earnest of our inheritance to the redemption of the acquires possession" (Ephesians 1:13, 14). Hence we are made sensible that we are the property of God. We are anointed, sealed, and have the earnest of the Spirit. These three things together make us rich in whatever part we have in the divine service. In type, all this is by the last words of David.

Now we come to his last prayer. This Psalm 72 presents Solomon to us. It is an extension of David's last words in which he describes what a king should be. Now he is praying about him, and so the psalm begins, "O God, give the king thy judgments, and thy righteousness unto the king's son". The king's son is in mind; it is as if David and Solomon sat together on the throne.

They did sit together on the throne, as the Lord Jesus sits on His Father's throne. And so we are told that David made Solomon king. The chapter does not say he sat actively on the throne with his father, but he sat on it and we may be sure, graced it. He is the son, and it is as if in our psalm, David prayed for him at that time. He prayed for the king, but the king's son is in mind throughout the psalm. David says, "He will judge thy people with righteousness, and thine afflicted with judgment. The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the hills, by righteousness. He will do justice to the afflicted of the people; he will save the children of the needy, and will break in pieces the oppressor".

The whole psalm is about the king. Among many other things, we are told (verses 10 - 17), "The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall render presents ... prayer shall be made for him continually; all the day shall he be blessed ... His name shall endure for ever ... all nations shall call him blessed". You see an enlargement of David's last words, but this is a prayer -- but a prayer of certainty. I bring it into the present moment because it really refers to Christ as He is now; it is the Solomonic character of Christ in view of the millennium, and that, I believe, is why we are told that the prayers of David are ended. Everything is now secured from the standpoint of kingship and is "Yea" and "Amen" in Christ. It is as sure as the foundations of the earth that every matter referring to government is finally reached in Christ. We may have to endure much, as the next psalm, the exercise of Asaph, shows, which I hope to enlarge on a little as applicable to us; but Psalm 72 is Christ as He is above in His Solomonic character. Every divine thought as to kingship, as to rule, is there infallibly. We have nothing to ask for in that respect. There is nothing to be added to what

is there. It is final. It is only a moment, and it will be applicable to all here below. There is nothing at all to be asked for in regard to what is of Christ above. The prayers of David are ended. I stress this because we need it. We are in troublous times, the times of the iron and the clay, particularly of the clay. It is a state of things in which there is no certainty, for iron and clay do not mix, we are told. There is no fusion. It is one or the other, but whatever prevails it will only be for a moment.

For believers, it is a question of endurance, a question of our intelligent endurance, and to know how to behave ourselves in such a state of things. In spite of the fact that it is the iron and clay, it is part of the four monarchies that God has ordained. Things are more difficult for us as we reach this point, but nevertheless God furnishes us with what is needed so that we might go through. We are to go through, and in going through to be like God in Christ. How He behaved in the presence of an unrighteous politician, and yet one called "the governor" in Matthew, the governmental gospel! Although Pilate is constantly called a governor at the end, yet he is a most unrighteous politician. He says, "I find no fault in him" and yet he hands Him over to the scourgers, and finally to those who put Him to death. Nevertheless, the Lord says to him, "Thou hadst no authority whatever against me if it were not given to thee from above" (John 19:11).

Pilate enquired, "Thou art the king of the Jews?" The Lord said, "Thou sayest it ... I have been born for this ... that I might bear witness to the truth" (John 18:33 - 37). He is the true King. Every divine thought of kingship is there infallibly, and that is why we do not need to pray on that line. It is all finished. The Lord is just waiting for the Father's moment. The Father has kept everything in His own power till the Lord Jesus takes charge

here below. The day is appointed, but it is kept in the Father's power and only waiting for the clock, as it were, to strike and all will be put in movement, and this wonderful kingship described by David will come into public effect. Hence, the word is, "Have patience, therefore, brethren, till the coming of the Lord" (James 5:7). Well now, that is Psalm 72.

Psalm 73 is by Asaph, the leading singer in David's economy. He was a prophet, too, a most remarkable man. He wrote eleven of the psalms in this third book of Psalms, so that he is a very interesting servant, an instructed man. This first Psalm in the book, which is his, gives us an account of his experience in regard to the wicked. What is up in heaven is all certain. David's prayers are ended, and Asaph is not praying for what David is not praying for. Everything is as clear as noon-day up there. Everything is final and just waiting for the day so that it may begin to take effect. I may say it is taking effect now in a spiritual way in ourselves as here this afternoon, with hundreds of others like us who love the Lord Jesus in His kingship and who bow to Him. The first thing a believer in Christ does normally is to confess Him -- that Jesus Christ is Lord. That is His kingship. His title is Lord in the christian economy, but this is kingship. That is what is in it, so that, as I said, it is taking effect in this moral way, called the kingdom of God. But His kingship as applied in a coming day, the millennium, is what David had in mind. "All kings shall bow down before him".

And then, as I said, Asaph presents the experience of those of us who have the Spirit down here. That is what this third book would instruct us in. In spite of the place that God has given Christ in heaven there are the wicked down here, and as soon as the Holy Spirit came down, men were

mocking at him (Acts 2:13). Peter tells us, "Having therefore been exalted by the right hand of God, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which ye behold and hear" (Acts 2:33). You can understand that Asaph, had he been present, would have asked why the people on the streets of Jerusalem should be mocking at the presence of the Holy Spirit. This psalm is to teach us that the wicked are for a time allowed to continue. It is the day of grace. God is bringing out a wonderful thing in the interval between the advent of the Spirit and the time when Christ will reign. This wonderful thing is what we rightly call christianity, the kingdom of God as it is now. It has continued all these centuries, and hence the need of patience, in view of the Lord's coming, is stressed in Scripture. These men are mocking, but Peter did not call fire to come down from heaven on them. He explained to them what the Spirit meant here below. Then he goes on to say that this same Spirit is available to them; "Repent, and be baptised each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for remission of sins, and ye will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). Then he says, "For to you is the promise and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God may call". This has been going on for eighteen hundred years. That is God, dear brethren, His wonderful patience, His longsuffering being salvation. And He is calling upon us to be like Himself, like what He was in Jesus. The Lord said, "Thou hadst no authority whatever against me if it were not given to thee from above" (John 19:11). Jesus suffered from the ruling powers, and we may be called upon to suffer from them. He suffered death at the hands of Pilate, and yet recognised that Pilate had power from heaven. That is the position.

Well now, Asaph is in great concern about all this. He does not understand. Many of us perhaps do not, and so he says what covers the whole position. "Truly God is good to Israel, to such as are of a pure heart". That is a very fine saying. It is a general statement; but I may say it and yet be chafing at seeing my neighbours prosper while I am not prosperous in this world's goods. So it is that Asaph says, "But as for me, my feet were almost gone, my steps had well nigh slipped; for I was envious at the arrogant, seeing the prosperity of the wicked ... . Their eyes stand out from fatness, they exceed the imaginations of their heart". This is the way he goes on, but is all this the truth? If Asaph were at one of our Bible readings and unfolded all this to us, what would any spiritual person say? He is occupying the time fruitlessly. That is what we should have said. He is mistaken. These men are not nearly so well off as he thinks they are. But still, this is Asaph, one of the greatest servants in David's time. Do we not well to look into this matter as to whether we are not in some little way in his state now? You take the Great War a few years back. What a terrible thing! People say, Where is God? Why are these men allowed power to commit such crimes? Well, it is a good question to face, but then Christ is on God's throne. He is on the Father's throne. If He were on His own throne, He would not have allowed them to go on one second. He will destroy the man of sin with the breath of His mouth. The beast and his lieutenant will be taken alive and cast into the lake of fire. Satan will be bound by one angel, and put into the abyss, when Christ takes His power. Christ is now on His Father's throne and He tells us Himself, "Neither does the Father judge any one" (John 5:22). So that as on His Father's throne it is grace. Christ is the Executor of grace, that is the idea; so He gives the Spirit, as Peter says,

and is giving it now, forgiving people's sins, having the gospel proclaimed from week to week, and so on. That is what Christ is doing, but the change will soon take place, and that is where Asaph missed it. David is encouraged with Christ in heaven and says, 'I have nothing more to pray for', but Asaph has much to pray for, he is in a turmoil. He has no peace. He is envious of the wicked, mistaken about them, talking mistakenly about them, too. That is the thing I want to urge, dear brethren, for we are living in most treacherous times and we are having to do with certain powers that are scorching us, or some of our brethren anyway. This psalm is to show us how to get on in those circumstances, and so Asaph says in verse 17: "Until I went into the sanctuaries of God; then understood I their end".

It is all settled now. These men go on for a year, for five years, a decade, twenty-five years. Look at the prophet Daniel. You see them one after another. Take Belshazzar for instance. "In that night was Belshazzar the king of the Chaldeans slain". That very night! That handwriting on the wall -- we may look for such handwriting in relation to current history. It is sure to be there in due time. So these great monarchs of old -- take Alexander himself: Daniel sees the great horn broken, and his kingship divided into four parts (Daniel 8:8). We see Herod ordering James to be slain with the sword, and to please the Jews taking Peter too, and putting him into prison; but the angel opened the door, and Peter went out. He went to the house of Mary. Nobody touched him; the outer gate even opened of itself. What happened to Herod? He was eaten with worms. That is God, the way God deals with men of this kind. "Then understood I", says Asaph, "their end". You cannot imagine him writing a psalm that is worth anything in the service of God while in such a state as described in the first sixteen

verses of this Psalm. He says, "Truly God is good". You may say, that is fitting for any psalm; but, when he begins to tell us of his envy of men, prosperous in this world, and being proud and all that, there is nothing there for anyone to get good out of. But we must consider the whole psalm. It is a Psalm, it is an experience, and it is for us to look into it and see whether we do not need to judge ourselves as possessing a state similar to the early part of it, that we are envious of our neighbours, or even our brethren. God would have us delivered from this sort of thing, and Asaph would tell us that if we want to get delivered, we must go "into the sanctuaries of God". Let each read verse 17 over and over again. Underline it, and see if you cannot realise it. The Lord says in Matthew 6:6, "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy chamber, and having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret". That is a thing to be noted, to shut doors when needed; to keep out things that hinder you in your relations with God, and "pray to thy Father who is in secret". Try that in regard to any matter at all that troubles you. The Lord further says, "Thy Father who sees in secret will render it to thee". He will show you that those people that you are envying, that are flourishing like a green bay-tree, will come to nothing in a moment. "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth, for the breath of Jehovah bloweth upon it" (Isaiah 40:7). That is the principle governing poor man, unregenerate, unsaved, in this world. However much power he may seem to have, however much wealth he may seem to have, it is just for a moment and it is gone.

Verse 18 says, "Truly thou settest them in slippery places, thou castest them down in ruins ... As a dream, when one awaketh, wilt thou, Lord, on arising despise their image". When God awakes -- what does that mean? Well, we are told in this

very book, this third book of Psalms, Psalm 78:65, 66, that the Lord "awoke as one out of sleep, like a mighty man that shouteth aloud by reason of wine; and he smote his adversaries in the hinder part, and put them to everlasting reproach". That is the idea, and so Asaph says, that when Jehovah awakes He will despise the image of these men. They have their coats of arms, of course. It is remarkable how heraldry comes into view if people want to make a show. How people look up their ancestors, their coats of arms, their seats, if they think these will add anything to them. "Whose is this image and superscription?" Caesar's. "Pay then what is Caesar's to Caesar", is God's word to us at the present moment. What will God do when He awakes? He will despise Caesar and all such. Christ is the image of God. The Holy Spirit puts His stamp on us so that in believers too there is representation of God. God does not despise that, but Asaph says as to these, "Thou, Lord, on arising despise their image". You see the irony with which God will deal with all this that provokes such people as Asaph -- God will deal with them suddenly; they are destroyed in a moment. These are most important things. It is a question of peace in our souls -- restfulness in our souls -- in the midst of the gross darkness and confusion caused by persons in high places. How the soul revolts against it, but God would say as it were, Just be patient and wait and let Me do these things. "Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord". Your business is grace, to exercise grace. That is the christian's business. That is the service Christ is maintaining at the present time. He is on His Father's throne, and our privilege is to enter the holiest, where we see everything clearly. We see Christ as He is above, and see the means whereby God can do everything and carry out His will. We see how the wicked must go,

for everything must be according to Christ. Psalm 2 is the basis of it. The divine decree is that everything must be according to the Son.

That is what I see in the holiest, and I come out with shining face, and say to myself, I am just as assured as David was when he finished praying. I see the whole matter settled, and it is settled in Him above as we have in that little hymn of Mr. Wigram's, 'Not a cloud above'. That is Psalm 72. 'Not a spot within', that is Psalm 73. Nothing of myself; the flesh, which darkens the vision, judicially out of the way. Asaph is entirely free now and so he says, "Nevertheless I am continually with thee: thou hast holden my right hand". Let us underline all these verses too -- the confidence that entering the holiest inspires. "Whom have I in the heavens? and there is none upon earth I desire beside thee" -- no longer envying men in their prosperity. I am satisfied. That is the position, dear brethren; that is the state, answering to Psalm 72, which in Psalm 73 bears, according to God, all that conditions here involve; a state that is in those who enter the sanctuaries of God and see everything settled above and everything settled in their own souls, and that it is only a moment and all the evil will be dealt with. The Holy Spirit sets up a millennial state in our souls, and normally every christian is a testimony to that coming glorious day. So that there is a state of happiness, of peace, of satisfaction, developed in Asaph in this psalm. I commend it to the brethren in these days that we are in, so that there might be a testimony for God such as was here in Christ as He appeared before Pilate. James says, "Ye have condemned, ye have killed the just; he does not resist you" (James 5:6). That is the attitude. God has marked it out for us, that the Spirit of Christ should be seen in us in testimony.

THE ASSEMBLY A VESSEL FOR DIVINE PURPOSES

Acts 10:9 - 12; 1 Corinthians 11:17 - 25; 1 Corinthians 5:3 - 5; 1 Corinthians 14:23 - 25; 2 Corinthians 8:23, 24

J.T. The object in proposing these scriptures is that we might look at the assembly as the vessel for divine purposes as here on earth. First, for the service of God, the Lord's supper being expressly connected with the assembly as such -- partaking of it, the saints are gathered together in assembly. Then for discipline in chapter 5; for ministry of the word of God, particularly prophecy, chapter 14, inclusive of the temple -- the saints being said to be the temple of God in chapter 3, as having the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of God dwelling in them collectively; finally, the collection for the saints. All these services or divine uses are connected with the assembly. She will have other functions in the coming age, according to Revelation, and according to Ephesians, but one reading would not suffice to consider all; so that the services contemplated in 1st and 2nd Corinthians are selected as representative of our subject. In using the word "vessel", reference is made to Acts 10:11, where what came down, in the vision, is so designated. It was "a certain vessel descending, as a great sheet bound by the four corners". "And this took place thrice, and the vessel was straightway taken up into heaven" (verse 16). This is the Spirit's account of the matter, and Peter uses the word, too, in his account in chapter 11. Being the Spirit's account, it expresses the mind of heaven as regards the thing mentioned, that it is a vessel. The economy relative to the assembly implies not only one thought, or one assembly, but many; what refers to the whole must work out in the sub-divisions, and the idea of a

vessel must attach to each assembly. The assembly is viewed in Scripture, as in Corinth, as a whole idea -- the assembly of God in Corinth, not simply what is characteristic; it conveys the completeness. The word, however, is used without the definite article when the apostle speaks of the functioning of the assembly in the locality, as this is characteristic, as in our passage in chapter 11: 18, "when ye come together in assembly". The foregoing is an outline so that we might look into it intelligently.

C.A.I. What is implied in the expression "in assembly"?

J.T. That we are in function. It has often been illustrated by members of a legislature, with the speaker in his place and the mace on the table. The house is in function -- not simply in committee -- it functions. The whole idea is there.

C.A.I. Does it relate definitely to the saints being together in a certain way?

J.T. In relation to one another with their minds in a certain attitude, as of the assembly. "We, being many, are one loaf, one body; for we all partake of that one loaf" -- such thoughts govern us as "in assembly".

E.B.McC. You emphasise the thought of a vessel. What is in your mind as to that particular figure being used here?

J.T. It is a word used much in Scripture. We have the word in Isaiah 22:24, "they shall hang upon him ... all the small vessels, as well the vessels of cups as all the vessels of flagons". That is, all are dependent on Christ. In a detailed way we have such a vessel as Noah's ark, the great containing vessel used to save him and his house. We have the same idea applied to a coffin. Joseph was embalmed in an ark -- a vessel, evidently; he commanded that they should carry his bones up into Canaan when the people went up, and this was done,

presumably the same vessel being used. Then we have the idea in the ark of the covenant, and the vessels of service laid on the table of the tabernacle.

E.B.McC. Here it would contain that which is light for the world to come; the heavenly city will be this in the future.

J.T. Applied to the local assembly, it would answer to the assembly as a whole. The Lord said, "On this rock I will build my assembly" (Matthew 16:18). It was something for His own use, not exclusively His, for it was God's assembly, but He said "my assembly", and He uses it in the sense of which we are speaking, as the great vessel of service; a containing vessel, too, because of the gifts which are in it. Every divine thought has a place there, so our primary thought is that we might see how important the idea is as in our minds in each locality, and to see whether the concrete thought may be realisable. The thought should be maintained, and each one functioning in it; so that the work of God goes on from that point of view in the locality.

J.S. Is there any distinction between "my assembly" and "the assembly of the living God?"

J.T. The assembly of God, as we have it here, would be the assembly as in relation to God. It is God's assembly. The assembly of the living God would be just to stress the thought of life as over against deadness in current religion and the like; whereas "my assembly" is the Lord inferentially implying that it is His, a very precious thought, too; He uses it for divine purposes; thus it may be viewed as God's or Christ's. We can see that in the working out of the services of the assembly, it is usually God's assembly, the assembly of God. Sometimes the locality is greatly stressed, or the persons in the locality, as in the epistles to "the assembly of Thessalonians" (made up of people in that city) "in God the Father".

J.R.F. Even in a day of ruin, you would still hold to the thought of the whole body, and the assembly in the locality?

J.T. That is the primary thought; we must get the initial idea that is in God's mind as to the assembly, and see how it works out in the sub-divisions of a locality. We were noting the other day that the word is in the singular in the early chapters of Acts. It is not until chapter 9 where Paul comes on the scene that we have the plural, assemblies, and we find that expression frequently afterwards. In 1 Corinthians 7:17 Paul says, "Thus I ordain in all the assemblies", not the assembly; the principle of catholicity is thus preserved, and the whole thought is presented sub-divisionally. Of course, christendom belies all this, and so the apostle began his admonitions by referring to the divisions among them. Christendom is divided by sectarianism; admittedly so; they use the word 'non-sectarian' to gloss it over, as it were, but it does not remove the sects.

Rem. Does the vessel particularly stress the idea of unity, as in the persons composing it?

J.T. It seems so. We have before us the great thought of the one whole, in our respective localities. We hold ourselves in relation to it, and clothe each other in that way as of it, so that it functions; that is one of the greatest things for us, that in every locality where the saints are, it is functioning -- in principle, and in practice, able to stand by itself, although recognising the universal unity. Every local assembly is furnished so as to act for itself, without denying that it is ready to receive help, as furnished of God, from other parts; but the principle is that the assemblies are set up, the apostle choosing elders in each of them (Acts 14:23); not only an elder in each, but elders. God thus provides for the assemblies. We never read in Scripture

of one elder having rule over an assembly. We also have deacons mentioned, so that there should be no lack. All these services are to go on; the Lord's supper, and all that enters into that; discipline, ministry, the collection, and all that enters into each service. With reference to the collection, we read in chapter 16: 2, "On the first of the week let each of you put by at home".

C.H.H. Is the governing feature of this vessel that it descends out of heaven?

J.T. Yes. It lifts it off the level of the ordinary so-called churches. The names of the greatest saints have been attached to these churches, but these buildings do not come up to this vessel coming down from heaven, and going up again perfectly intact, because it is knit at the four corners; and it has an immense capacity, for it contains all the creatures that went into the ark. The suggested capacity of the vessel is very remarkable.

L.D.M. Do you get the whole thought in chapter l, "The assembly of God ... in Corinth" and then its catholicity in the thought of "in every place"?

J.T. That is right, in every place. We have to determine what a place is sometimes. It involves great difficulty amongst us to determine the boundaries of a place, but the Spirit of God assumes we ought to be able to do it.

J.S. Do the different designations which we have of the assembly convey light as to her heavenly relationships?

J.T. I should say so. The most exalted relation mentioned is "the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband" -- the word following is that "the tabernacle of God is with men" (Revelation 21:2, 3). These thoughts are all intended to affect us in testimony now.

T.R.H. In the tabernacle there were vessels: are the thoughts attaching to all these put together in unity in the assembly now?

J.T. Yes. Coming to the New Testament, the vessels are ourselves. One is to be a vessel "to honour, sanctified, serviceable to the Master, prepared for every good work" (2 Timothy 2:21). That should be applicable to everyone in the assembly.

F.J.F. Does the Lord act in regard to the assembly in the same manner as mentioned in all these four instances quoted?

J.T. Yes; but the Lord's supper in itself is what we do. In chapter 11 the apostle complains because they were not doing what they should do; what we do is to be according to what Christ did in the institution of the Supper; so that if we apply the word "my assembly" to 1 Corinthians 11, the Lord is in mind, and what is done is after the pattern He set out. It is a question of the way things are done. The Corinthians were doing things very differently, disgracefully, in fact; so Paul says, as to their gatherings, "it is not to eat the Lord's supper" -- so bad was their conduct. Hence, in the verses read, it is a question of the order and the way in which things are done. But the Supper is not all. There is the service of God, which develops out of it. The Lord's supper is a memorial, and through it He comes in amongst us and takes the lead in the matter of the service of God. The assembly is essential to it; He needs it for the service of God, and it runs on into Ephesians where we read, "to him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages".

F.J.F. Is He present as Head when we come together for discipline?

J.T. The apostle is writing apostolically and speaks of himself as present in spirit. He says, "in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ (ye and my

spirit being gathered together, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ), him that has so wrought this: to deliver him, I say, being such, to Satan for destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (1 Corinthians 5:4, 5). It is clear that the assembly is contemplated. The word is not used, but "ye ... being gathered together" the apostle says. He is there in spirit, which has to be understood in relation to the organism, as indicating a real presence in some sense. He stresses the man "being such" as described, as if to make sure that there was no mistake about what the man was. They ought to be able to say whether the man was really such as was reported, so the action taken would be in the power of our Lord Jesus Christ.

L.D.M. Would it help to say a word as to the distinction between gathering together in chapter 5, and then chapter 11 the coming together "in assembly;" and chapter 14:23, "the whole assembly come together in one place"?

J.T. The first has already been remarked upon. The expression "come together in assembly" being considered as characteristic, that is, we are together as of the assembly and holding each other in that way, so that it is in function; not simply that we are together in a room, but in assembly, referring to our attitude of mind, so that we are governed by the truth of the assembly; and as in this attitude of mind, we give scope to the Holy Spirit, for the assembly depends on the Spirit. That in general, I think, is what the assembly is in chapter 11; but the word is not used in chapter 5. What is stressed there is power, the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, they being there. Still the saints are together, "ye and my spirit being gathered together, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ". It is humbling when discipline has to be executed; as in the case of

the woman in Numbers 5, there is no sweet savour offering. It is a humbling state of things, and what is needed is power and discernment to deal with such a matter.

L.D.M. I was wondering whether the gathering carries a judicial idea?

J.T. It does. I am not saying the idea of the assembly is not implied; I believe it is.

A.M.H. Matthew 18 intimates that in exercising judgment we are in assembly.

J.T. Quite; Matthew 18 indicates that such authority is set in the assembly.

A.M.H. What is the thought in "my spirit"? Does that leave room for exercise and the entering in spirit of all the saints into what is going on locally? The spirits of the saints would be in the matter as knowing of it.

J.T. Quite so.

A.M.H. Does it help to link up with the universal thought?

J.T. It does; and it depends on the organism in which christians are as one body. I suppose this is implied in Paul's spirit being there. It lent apostolic authority to what was done. It was the actual presence of his spirit in some sense. Perhaps in our weakness we hardly realise what the organism is.

A.M.H. That seems a very important point, the truth of the body underlying the assembly, so that it operates in a living way as the saints are together.

J.T. As to chapter 14 -- we are now not exactly together in assembly, but "the whole assembly come together in one place", as already remarked. It would mean that the sub-divisional gatherings in a town or city would be given up for the moment, so that such a meeting should be held. It ought to be on an evening which would not interfere with other services. First, the apostle gives the great effect of such a meeting, because it affords opportunity

for prophetic ministry, which he regards in this chapter and generally as the greatest kind of ministry. He shows immediately the effect of prophetic ministry, the man whom he contemplates as coming into the meeting "is convicted of all, he is judged of all; the secrets of his heart are manifested; and thus, falling upon his face, he will do homage to God". Then from verse 26, to the end of the chapter, we have order again taken up, this time in regard of ministry. Chapter 11 is order in regard of the Lord's supper and the services of God that follow, but here it is order in regard of ministry of the word of God. So that two or three are to speak. It says, "But if there be a revelation to another sitting there, let the first be silent. For ye can all prophesy one by one" (verses 30, 31). Then in verse 32, "And spirits of prophets are subject to prophets", meaning that each prophet should rule his own spirit; he rules his own spirit in such a way that he is amenable to the influence of the Holy Spirit, and he sits down if another has a revelation; and he would not be a fourth speaker. Verse 34 shows that women are to be silent in the assemblies; verse 35, "it is a shame for a woman to speak in assembly".

C.H.H. Do you think that the Lord being emphasised in 1 Corinthians 11 is to regulate the feature of disorderliness that was found there?

J.T. It seems that the apostle seizes the opportunity to bring in the Lord's supper as involving the authority of the Lord. It is the Lord's supper, and it would seem as if it is intended from that point of view to subdue us, so that we might avoid all disorder, and that would run on through all the services. If it is to take part audibly, we must be regulated by the truth governing the position and in every way maintain what is suitable in the assembly.

T.R.H. Are you carrying forward the thought of the vessel through all this -- a vessel for the divine services of discipline, ministry, collection?

J.T. That is exactly what is in mind, to the end that in each of our localities we might see that the assembly is that characteristically; that it acts and can function in all these services. You can see what we have on our hands in our care meetings, and prayer meetings, because at the moment this vessel is the supreme thought of God. If we get that into our souls, all meetings and thoughts would converge on it, that the assembly might function.

J.S. What would be the character of a word given on Lord's day morning; and would there be more than one?

J.T. A 'word' is given, not a lecture or discourse. Brevity is one thing that should mark it, because much else enters into the occasion, which, in the mind of God, is very full, and should not be hampered by anything that would not promote what is on hand, the worship of God. One is speaking under the Lord's headship, and would convey that it is from Him, and as in power, it affects everybody. I have constantly seen that a word of that kind has promoted what was on hand and prospered it. You would not have two or three words. We are dealing with great matters and brevity should mark us. If we look at all that is said about the Lord's supper itself, in its assembly setting, 1 Corinthians 11, it is brief.

E.S.H. You say that the word should be given as under the headship of Christ. It would seem to arise out of the occasion. You would not think of one coming with a word prepared.

J.T. Quite so. The Spirit selects a suitable man, one who is efficient in giving ministry and is likely to be useful at such a great moment. It is a heart matter, a matter spiritually felt.

T.R.H. Would you have the functioning of the vessel in view? It would promote this.

J.T. Yes. You get illustrations in the Old Testament of persons speaking spontaneously, the Spirit coming upon them; that is a formula in Old Testament times, and the result was just what was needed, and it had its own divinely designed effect.

C.A.I. Should we expect a word?

J.T. Well, it is a feature of the truth that God speaks in the assembly. Moses went into the tabernacle to speak to God, but then he heard the voice speaking to him from off the mercy-seat. God spoke first. The word of God is a feature of the assembly. The word of God is heard there.

A.M.H. Is the word to direct attention to some feature of Christ Himself, that He would support in following up?

J.T. That is what it usually is. Normally it regulates and stimulates our spiritual sensibilities.

C.A.I. In some of our meetings a word is unusual. Should that be so, or should we be concerned about it?

J.T. Some years back many said there should not be a word; but I do not think that thought is held anywhere now. The word of God should have a place in the assembly.

A.M.H. Is it particularly serviceable at a point where the saints are moving either from the Lord to the Father, or to some feature in connection with the Lord not yet touched, and would lead forward?

J.T. I think so. At the end of a feature of the service, it may turn the hearts and minds of the brethren to another thing that is needed.

L.M. Is that borne out by Joshua, "Come hither, and hear the words of Jehovah your God"?

J.T. Quite so, in view of the people moving over Jordan into the land. You get in Luke 10:20 a beautiful thought, "Yet in this rejoice not, that

the spirits are subjected to you, but rejoice that your names are written in the heavens". Rejoice that your names are in heaven. That is brief, but it is wonderfully stimulating.

Rem. Is the assembly of God in a locality definable now?

J.T. We are now trying to make it clear. If you have the definition in the whole condition, we should get at the truth. We are dealing with the assembly as it was, and that is right. Thus we see how the truth is applicable, whether it can function now, and it can. The best authority for that is the Lord's address to Philadelphia, only one assembly, but the word intimates plainly that He is thinking of the whole assembly. He says, in Revelation 3:10, "I also will keep thee out of the hour of trial;" and in verse 9, "they ... shall know that I have loved thee". He is thinking of the whole.

E.B.McC. What you are saying would produce men. That the tabernacle of God is with men would be evidence in a locality that the assembly is functioning properly.

J.T. Just so. It is composed of men normally, but you would have to consider the word "men" in Revelation 21:3 in its context. It is a question of that order of being -- men as such, not a special nation.

E.B.McC. I was thinking of Christ's glory, as seen in those who serve -- "messengers of assemblies, Christ's glory".

J.T. The persons Paul speaks of would be men characteristically. The idea is full-grown -- a great feature of the truth -- we are to be men in this; and he says, "Whether as regards Titus, he is my companion and fellow-labourer in your behalf" (2 Corinthians 8:23). One would like to have commendation like that.

A.M.H. What is the point in Paul's mentioning that? To bring it to bear upon the Corinthians?

J.T. What better letter of commendation could there be than this? He had been with them, he brought Paul word of them, causing him great joy.

A.M.H. They possessed distinctive characteristics not found elsewhere in the world.

J.T. While on the way, these men might have been exposed to all sorts of things, such as robbery, like Ezra coming up from Babylon with his brethren: he was ashamed to ask the king for anything more, and trusted God. These would be trustworthy men, they would trust God that the robbers should not take the money from them, but their faces would indicate something. "Messengers of assemblies" -- as if they were dignified, and Christ's glory connected with them, and entering into both the assemblies and the servants. A messenger of an assembly would convey whatever the assembly was, that is, the assembly would be reflected in its messenger.

C.H.H. Would that characteristic shine out in service?

J.T. I think so. A brother would look after the money, but not do it as though he were cashier in a bank. These brethren would bear something in their countenances as to the dignity of their service -- "Christ's glory".

W.H.W. Would they give a visible indication of the unity of the assembly?

J.T. Yes. In the gift to meet the need of the saints, because that is the point in these two chapters. "Thanks be to God for his unspeakable free gift" (2 Corinthians 9:15), so that glory here would be in the reflection of what God is in Christ.

E.B.McC. Paul speaks about having things clear before the Lord and also before men. Their righteous acts come before men as well as before the Lord.

"We provide for things honest, not only before the Lord, but also before men. And we have sent with them our brother whom we have often proved to be of diligent zeal in many things, and now more diligently zealous through the great confidence he has as to you" (2 Corinthians 8:21, 22).

J.T. That is particularly important when money is involved.

F.W.W. Does this apply to what we speak of as special collections, or the collection as a whole?

J.T. This is a special collection clearly, but I suppose what we are saying would govern the whole matter, because all giving ought have the character of glory, and therefore the box on the table is glory.

F.W.W. It would not apply merely to the collection which is made now on one Lord's day in the month?

J.T. I think it applies particularly to a special collection, and the letters are intended to stimulate the brethren so that they might give, and the Lord is brought forward as the model. "For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that for your sakes he, being rich, became poor, in order that ye by his poverty might be enriched" (2 Corinthians 8:9). Then in 1 Corinthians 16:1, 2 the first day of the week is brought into it, the only occasion in which we get the first day of the week in 1st and 2nd Corinthians, and it is in connection with the collection.

F.W.W. Have you any thought as to the frequency of this character of collection?

J.T. It cannot be too frequent. It is the infrequency we have to consider; not that one would complain at all as to the giving of the Lord's people, because I think God is greatly blessing the brethren on that line. The remarkable place it has in the Scriptures is to be reflected in us. The thought of

giving is seen in God and in Christ and the instruction here ends thus: "Thanks be to God for his unspeakable free gift". The assembly is the home of love in this respect as in others; it reflects God; it is God's assembly, and the principle of giving would be there, so that the box is glory, the whole position in the service of God is glory to glory.

C.A.I. Do we understand that in chapter 16 the apostle has in view the special collection?

J.T. Clearly it is.

C.A.I. In connection with the regular collection, would that be laid up for?

J.T. Nothing is said of a local collection or local needs, but of love acting towards persons at a distance.

L.D.M. Acts 11:29 bears this out as a result of prophetic ministry, "they determined, according as any one of the disciples was well off, each of them to send to the brethren who dwelt in Judaea, to minister to them; which also they did". The promotion of love is there in this giving.

J.T. Particularly at a distance. John speaks about seeing your brother having need -- that would be local, but here it is a thing that is witnessed to, you hear of it, it is love operating to overcome prejudices, national, for instance; you do not allow anything like that to interfere with the operation of love.

A.M.H. Deuteronomy 14 puts together the Levite and the stranger, the widow and the fatherless, as if they all had some common place in the mind of God.

J.T. They all are generally in mind, I think. The allocation of certain amounts for each group covers the matter.

A.M.H. That helps. Where it is done, the giving becomes much more generous. The saints have a definite idea of the size of the need before them.

There is plenty of affection and it only requires something to be presented to call it forth.

J.T. The subject of giving seems to be taken up in Scripture as a matter to be promoted by stimulation; that is the tenor of Paul's remarks. He boasted of the Corinthians to the other assemblies to stimulate them, and he boasted of other assemblies to the Corinthians with the same intent.

F.W.W. What the Lord said of the widow, (Luke 21:1 - 4), would be stimulating.

J.T. Yes, indeed. The Lord said she "has cast in more than all". He immediately began to talk of the throwing down of the temple, as if it were not great enough, for what the woman represented required a greater thing, and the assembly is the idea, being the residence of the best that is of heaven.

A.M.H. Does this scripture help us in the working out of what the Lord spoke of as "my assembly", the universal idea?

J.T. Yes. Only a divine Person could thus speak, but it works out mediatorially. He uses it in the promotion of the divine purposes and designs, everything being in His hands and He over everything (Matthew 28:18, John 3:35).

Rem. Had this principle of giving become characteristic of the saints at Ephesus who were told to "remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that he himself said, It is more blessed to give than to receive"?

J.T. Just so -- a very blessed word.

W.H.W. We are to remember those far off as well as in our own locality.

J.T. The "sheet bound by the four corners" gives the universal thought.

DIVINE OPERATION IN ASSEMBLIES

Acts 9:31 - 43; Acts 15:40, 41; Acts 16:5

In looking at these scriptures, it is in view of considering divine dealings and operations, whatever form they may take, as having the assembly before us, particularly as in the plural sense -- that is assemblies, what we have been accustomed to name local assemblies. At the outset the thought was in the singular, that is, God operating in relation to what was at Jerusalem, and the Lord, in speaking of the assembly, viewed it that way. He spoke of it as His, and spoke of it as having administrative authority including the exercise of discipline. The singular idea prevailed in the early history of apostolic services. In Acts 2:47 the Lord is said to have "added to the assembly", and while it is doubtful if the word is in the original, the idea, however is there. The assembly is more than a number of christians: it involves building by the hand of the Lord, for He said, "I will build my assembly".

The Spirit seems to have left the use of the word until something of this kind appeared in the apostolic service. The service of the twelve was generally foundational, for their names are in the foundations of the heavenly city, not in the general structure. Acts 9:31 uses the word in the plural, and although it is disputed by some authorities, it is maintained by others that the word assemblies should be there, and the New Translation has it. Clearly from the context, the plural thought is conveyed in the references to localities. It is not one assembly in so many places, but assemblies in these districts. In relation to Paul's ministry the word 'assemblies' is prominently used, as seen in the passages read, and in the revival in which we have part it has its full place. Thus we have the idea of local assemblies

and it is with these that one would be occupied now, so as to show how the divine operations have the assembly in view in its local sense, always, however, keeping the general thought of one assembly in mind.

In Acts 9 the time had come for it, the gospel having spread abroad, as we are told here, throughout all Judaea, Galilee and Samaria. The saints at Jerusalem were scattered, too, and about to enter on heathen territory, and assemblies were about to be established there also, as the sequel shows. Saul of Tarsus was ravaging the assembly, meaning the assembly at Jerusalem, but he had set out for other lands, to Damascus and Syria, armed with power to seize members of the assembly there as at Jerusalem. The Lord Jesus was watching all this intently; His lordship is stressed in this chapter. Saul was going too far, as agents of the devil usually do. It never fails that an agent of the devil discredits himself by want of wisdom. How can he have wisdom? Whatever he has is usually turned into foolishness, like that of Ahithophel. Saul went out from Jerusalem, "breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord" (Acts 9:1): so that he was now in direct issue with the Lord. Was he stronger than the Lord? He asked that question later as an apostle -- are we stronger than He? (1 Corinthians 10:22). He discovered, perhaps more than anyone, how utterly impotent the creature is as having to do with the Lord. In grace He may allow us to prevail, as He allowed Jacob of old, so that Jacob could be ennobled, but Saul was not on that line. Heaven will not ennoble a man who is on the line of breathing out slaughter against the disciples of the Lord. So Saul was brought down, not destroyed, but brought down in grace, for he was to be imbued with the sense of grace. Perhaps he realised as no one else did, how that he was to carry it right through his preaching and his teaching and

his constructive work. He was brought down in grace; he was thoroughly secured by the Lord in grace; not only his personal salvation was in view, but also his apostleship.

We have the word vessel in this and the next chapters, very significantly. In this chapter it refers to Saul, and in the next to the assembly; both are vessels, the assembly, of course, being the great abiding vessel for God. Saul is a vessel in the Lord's hands, as He says, "This man is an elect vessel to me" (Acts 9:15). He was thoroughly secured, and "increased the more in power, and confounded the Jews who dwelt in Damascus, proving that this is the Christ" (Acts 9:22). As a vessel, the apostle's heart was full of Christ. He preached Him as the Son of God at once. He escaped the enemy in the attempt to slay him at Damascus and arrives at Jerusalem, where he is introduced to the apostles by Barnabas, a man with great sympathy in the work of God.

Saul is sent away to Tarsus because the Jews in Jerusalem would have killed him as they tried to do at Damascus. He escaped their hands in both places, the brethren protecting him. He was there under the divine eye, and heaven was greatly occupied with that man, although not yet formally entrusted with a commission. He received his commission in relation to the assembly; not that the assembly gave it to him, but the Spirit of God in the assembly at Antioch commissioned him. The assembly is brought into it very significantly so that he and the assembly are bound up in a peculiar way henceforth. He is secured from the hands of Satan -- a wonderful triumph -- and the Lord is making it to operate in view of the assemblies, that they should be helped. So we have this verse: "The assemblies then throughout the whole of Judaea and Galilee and Samaria had peace, being edified and walking in the

fear of the Lord, and were increased through the comfort of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 9:31). They increased; this is what I want to show -- how divine dealings have this in mind; and one would include even international matters. Whatever is transpiring on earth must become subservient sooner or later to God's service in the assembly. God's thought is in the assembly; however feebly it may be seen, it exists, and God will see to it that it is cared for. The Lord Jesus says to Philadelphia, "Behold, I make them of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews, and are not, but lie; behold, I will cause that they shall come and shall do homage before thy feet, and shall know that I have loved thee". What a comfort that is! The Lord is doing that. I have spoken of political and international matters coming under the Father, but all assembly matters come under the Lord, and He promises Philadelphia that He will honour her in that way. It will be publicly known that Christ loves the assembly. Of the religious opposers who say they are Jews and are not, the Lord says, "I will cause that they shall come and shall do homage before thy feet, and shall know that I have loved thee". One often wonders how that takes place, but one trusts to the Lord's words for the accuracy of it. We ought to take this to heart, as showing the place the assembly has with the Lord. So here the assemblies had rest, throughout all these places, Judaea, Galilee and Samaria, where the Lord Himself had wrought personally. The persecution for the moment was over, the storm had subsided, the Lord had said, "Silence; be mute", and the assemblies had peace, being edified and walking in the fear of the Lord, and were increased through the comfort of the Holy Spirit.

The next thing in this chapter is that what heaven does brings about ministry confirming it, and carrying

it forward. It is important therefore that those who minister should be on the alert for what the Lord is doing from His side, to carry it forward and enhance it. And so we find Peter, who represents the ministry here, going "through all quarters". He sensed evidently that this was now the order of the day, so he goes through all quarters, knowing that the testimony is no longer to be confined to Jerusalem. No minister ought to be confined to any one place, not that he should not have a local setting, but he is not to be confined. He is to be universal as set in the assembly; his outlook and field of service are to be universal. Peter sensed this, so that he went to all quarters, indicating that there are no restrictions with God, for God is limiting Himself to no boundaries. Peter in his service goes to Lydda and he finds Aeneas lying on a bed where he had been for eight years. The ministry is now working out the idea of the assemblies, the thought is current, it is in the Spirit, the divine movements are universal, the outlook is universal. The great vessel, Paul, prepared specially for the service, is already in the field, but for the moment in abeyance, although soon to be sought out by Barnabas and brought to Antioch.

Peter for the moment is the leading minister, and my point in reading these verses to the end of chapter 9 is to show how the minister, without any formal directions, works out what was already in evidence. Peter has some sense of the truth now developing, and hence says to Aeneas, "rise up, and make thy couch for thyself". It is to bring out suitable local conditions. If local assemblies are to be useful to heaven, the conditions which Peter effected in these two towns must exist. The first is that those who are local must understand that they must do things for themselves. They may look further afield for help if necessary, because there is

"set ... in the assembly" that which is available universally. The word of wisdom, the gift of government, and so on, should be always ready and available to help in any local assembly. That is a divine provision for saints everywhere; but Peter says, "Rise up, and make thy couch for thyself". We have often talked of this, and I bring it in here to show how the ministry is moving in relation to what heaven is doing.

The second feature is that the thing to be done must be done in a living way, not merely in a legal way as a matter of light, right doctrine, and principles; in the doing of things we want to have a living touch. Dorcas made garments, and no doubt made them well, but you cannot get life in garments, nor was it necessary for her to be converted to make garments -- I do not say she was not, but an unconverted person can make them. The women who were weeping, and showing Peter the garments Dorcas had made, cannot be said to have been assembly material, because Peter put them all out. But Peter was greatly concerned about Dorcas, and there can be no doubt that the Spirit of God records the facts as to her as containing instruction for the local assembly. The point is that these things should be living, and if things are living, that means love is there. Love is life, as 1 John 3:14, "We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren". Spiritually, life is love in activity. Peter presented her living, that is the thought, there is now in Joppa a living woman. It is the feminine side, the subjective side of the assembly, whilst the objective side is seen in Aeneas -- such as would attend meetings for care, and do the necessary ruling or governing part. They are the people specially who ought to understand that they must do things for themselves, they must learn the mind of God for themselves, and know what to do in

local matters; whereas the feminine side represents a practical general condition which must be living, so Peter, having prayed, says, "Tabitha, arise". When she opened her eyes she saw Peter, that is, she saw him whose name signifies material for the assembly. God would work in us by presenting something objectively that I myself am to be, in due course. Peter gave her his hand and raised her up, and having called the saints and widows, presented her living. It is a scripture that one has often gone over, but it is a most significant incident at this juncture of the testimony and applies in a peculiar way in this country. We are to understand the way of attending to our own local matters, maintaining at the same time spiritually living conditions.

The next chapter, which we did not read, brings out the heavenly side of this matter in the assembly; the time had come for it. It lifts us out of time, for in truth this vessel, as it is called, is drawn up into heaven in a final sense. It is definitely said to come to the earth in this chapter. Peter says "it came even to me", because he had to understand it, and at the end it goes up again into heaven. Cornelius is a gentile, belonging to a band called Italic. How remarkable that the Spirit of God should bring this man forward at this juncture to set out in him the great heavenly thought! One feels the smallness of one's understanding as to the heavenly side of things. Cornelius in his own account says, "A man stood before me in bright clothing" (verse 30). The Spirit says that Cornelius saw "an angel of God coming unto him;" and Peter saw "the heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending, as a great sheet, bound by the four corners and let down to the earth". These visions point to what is heavenly and belongs to heaven: a vessel coming down and definitely returning to heaven, and remaining there. And what thoughts are in it -- "all the quadrupeds

and creeping things of the earth, and the fowls of the heaven"! What wonderful thoughts God presents to Peter in all this great array of creatures in the vessel let down! Men are symbolised in them. This is witnessed in Peters word to Cornelius, "to me God has shewn to call no man common or unclean" (Acts 10:28).

Why should Cornelius be selected for all this? That is what heaven can do; God had made him what he was. He feared God with all his house, and had been occupied in alms-giving, and the Spirit of God says an angel came, but Cornelius says later "a man stood before me" in shining garments -- all to impress him and make him suitable for the divine purpose. At that time, Peter is on the alert and ready for his meal, a very simple matter; he is on the housetop, and becomes in ecstasy -- another beautiful thought suitable to heaven -- in fact the whole scene has been planned by heaven so as to impress us. One feels, as one is speaking, the need of being impressionable by what the Spirit of God presents: He groups things together to impress us. Peter is impressionable and gives a beautiful account in chapter 11 of how he understands that he is to call nothing common or unclean as the result of the word from heaven saying. "Rise, Peter, slay and eat". That is perfectly intelligible, and it means that you appropriate what there is. He would not do that -- nothing common or unclean, so the voice says, "What God has cleansed, do not thou make common". We have Peter's own statement as to how he understood that, and those who heard him were carried by it and glorified God, saying, "Then indeed God has to the nations also granted repentance to life". The assembly is the home of these things, also the home of cleansed persons. It is the place where confessions will be accepted. Heaven makes a great deal of repentance.

Repentance causes joy in heaven; it is one of the most interesting things to heaven.

The assembly is the home of grace. It reflects heaven; of course, in judgment and discipline too, but the assembly is set up in grace, so of all these creatures God says, They are cleansed. What a transformation! It is a question of God and what He has in the assembly, what the assembly is as the vessel of grace. You can understand that these creatures as they appear here are not kept up in heaven, heaven has no such creatures. You are to understand the spiritual import of this. God is going to have up there persons who have been like them, Cornelius and all of us, but it is to bring out what God is, how He forms the assembly of such as are cleansed, setting it in heaven and causing it to be representative of Himself here.

So you can understand how affected Peter was in going to Caesarea and how qualified he was. As the three men were at the gate of the house, the Spirit of God said to Peter, "Go down, and go with them". It is a matter requiring subjection; the operations of the Spirit in the assembly are on this line now, the time has come for it; so that you can understand how affected Peter would be as to whether he is equal to this great matter. It is a new thing, and how beautifully he meets Cornelius! Cornelius would worship him. Peter says, "Rise up: I myself also am a man ... to me God has shewn to call no man common or unclean". He is learning heaven's mind as to the assembly. He goes into the house, and a company goes in with him. What a fine sight -- Peter the apostle walking alongside a Roman officer, and entering into his house! Peter is full of heaven's mind and Cornelius is ready for him. Perhaps Peter never spoke to a more interesting company. Cornelius had called together his kinsmen and his intimate friends. And while Peter

"was yet speaking ... the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were hearing the word" (verse 44). They were brought into the assembly. It was not patronage on the part of Peter, it was the Spirit of God. The assembly was added to and ornamented by these men, a new element altogether, and in keeping with what was there. It was real material from among the nations, suitably brought in through Peter's ministry according to the Lord's appointment. As the Holy Spirit fell upon these men, how Peter must have been affected! He immediately commands that they should be baptised, meaning that he uses, with alacrity, the keys of the kingdom which the Lord had given him. He commanded them to be baptised in the name of the Lord.

In the other passages, Paul represented the ministry. In chapter 13 he and Barnabas had represented it. They had worked in Antioch for a whole year to bring in assembly conditions; so that the assembly was there, and certain distinguished servants ministering to the Lord in it. The Holy Spirit could speak there. There was that now amongst the gentiles in which the Holy Spirit could speak, and from which He can send out servants. Then we have Paul in chapter 15, where Barnabas left him. He represents the ministry. So we are told that Paul chose Silas and went forth "committed by the brethren to the grace of God. And he passed through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the assemblies". Chapter 15 is a crisis, but God gave unity in the truth, and although Barnabas and Paul separated, the ministry went on and the assemblies were confirmed: that is, amongst the gentiles, the assemblies in Syria and Cilicia. Paul's ministry had that effect, and one would seek to promote this divine thought, that God is never diverted from the economy set up in the assembly, that is in local gatherings. In Acts 16:5 we have further reference to the confirmation

of the assemblies. "The assemblies therefore were confirmed in the faith, and increased in number every day". There is the continuance of the thought that the ministry has in mind to carry on the mind of heaven and establish it here as in the assemblies, so that they might be available for divine uses. These uses are another matter, but in order that the divine uses may be exercised, the assemblies must be confirmed and established, and the ministry has that in mind.

THE WAY OF GOD

Acts 18:24 - 28; Matthew 21:8 - 11; Genesis 24:27

I wish to speak about the way of God, and begin with the passage in Acts 18, because there we have persons spoken of as in that way. Apollos was not altogether in it, so that he may be referred to as being in it in a defective sense. Aquila and Priscilla come before us in the chapter; a man and his wife, who evidently were well matched, being of one mind in the things of God, and no doubt, also, in the ordinary affairs of life. They are peculiarly distinguished, being mentioned some six times in the Scriptures. Sometimes Aquila is mentioned first, and sometimes his wife, indicating that the Spirit of God had pleasure in them as workers together; indeed, they are called by the apostle Paul fellow-workers, who staked their neck for him. They were of one mind in that too, evidently; jeopardising their lives for the great servant Paul. Such husbands and wives are of great value in the things of God, and so marital relations ought to be held in view of this. Engagements and marriages are divinely appointed and holy, and not intended to be the subjects of mere table talk, but held in relation to the service of God, and the testimony of God. Aquila and Priscilla are seen here acting together according to this. Apollos is partially in the way, knowing only the baptism of John, that is, his knowledge of christianity was defective.

The next chapter speaks of twelve men similarly instructed although not acting in service, and evidently not as well instructed as Apollos, but the whole section indicates how persons may be partially in the way, but not wholly in it. Apollos was not in any human organisation, as many christians are today. When viewing things in connection with

the truth of christianity from the standpoint of a particular denomination, we are apt to be defective. Associations of that kind are sinful, being condemned by Scripture (1 Corinthians 1:11 - 13). However much this remark might jar on some ears, the fact remains that human construction, and arrangement, and organisation, in the things of God are highly repugnant to the Spirit of God. However far removed it may be from the ways of these human organisations, yet it retains the character of lawlessness, and any christians so linked are pretty certain to be defective in their knowledge of the truth. In fact, many are devoid of the Spirit of God because of such defective instruction. What precedes the sealing by the Spirit is properly the reception of the gospel, and in connection with the gospel the word of the truth, the gospel indeed including the word of the truth (Ephesians 1:13). Truth is regulating. Christ is said to be the truth, and the Holy Spirit is also said to be the truth, so that the sealing of a believer requires the reception of the truth. Any partial refusal of the truth jeopardises the person, for the Holy Spirit cannot be at liberty to seal him, that is, to fall upon him, or enter into him, whatever form that may take. Hence, many at the present time are at a great disadvantage, and hardly in the way, certainly needing to be shown it more exactly. The fellowship of God's Son, the fellowship of His death, and of the Spirit, embodies the idea of the way of God at the present time. The word implies that the saints are bound up together in relation to the Son of God, the fellowship of God's Son, in relation to His death, which is very exclusive. This is a word which no christian need be afraid of, for the death of Christ is very exclusive; it excludes all that is contrary to God. We have also the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit of truth, and this is rigidly exclusive of all that is of man. The fellowship

spoken of in the epistle to the Corinthians embraces the way of God, and it is the way for us amidst the labyrinth of the ways of this world, religious and otherwise combined.

There is another thought in the fellowship, namely, that it includes fellowship with one another, that is, christians normally, so that the matter becomes very practical, and I am sure that what I am saying will appeal to every exercised person in this hall. The way of God is a singular thought. There are, of course, plural thoughts, such as "His ways past finding out", which is another thing, but this is one thought. Now Paul, who himself was in the way, calls these two -- Aquila and Priscilla -- fellow-workmen; this man and his wife would thus be linked on, in Paul's mind, with Matthew 21. In that chapter Matthew contemplates the way; it is not said to be the way of God there, but it enters into the teaching of it, as the context shows; it is the way on which Christ trod. Now it is the way into which the truth directs, so that those on the way should reach finality. Here the Lord is on His way to Jerusalem, which was the point to be reached -- in that sense finality.

In Matthew, as you will observe, Christ is on the way. He is set on the ass and the colt, that is the old and the young are used, and the disciples put their clothes on them. I am now linking on my remarks with Aquila and Priscilla, and with all of us here, who would in any way seek to help others in the way, for that is how they are presented. If we are on the way, and seek to get others into it, we would labour to get them to stay in it. Mark says a certain man ran into the way, and left it again. That is a dangerous matter. Some are impelled to enter on it, but do not remain. The man in Mark 10 kneeled to the Lord Jesus, being reverential, but later left the way, and many have done

that. If we run into the way we are likely to run out. Entering into the way is a matter for deliberation.

The disciples here are used of the Lord. They are used in getting the ass and the colt, procuring them for Christ, and now they put their clothes on them, and He sat on them. According to the verse I read, (verse 8) "a very great crowd strewed their own garments on the way, and others kept cutting down branches from the trees and strewing them on the way". That is what they were doing, it is a question of the way and those in it. Here Christ is moving on in the way to a definite or final end, He is moving towards Jerusalem, which, spiritually, is where the way leads. All those who receive the gospel are brought into the idea of Jerusalem. If this be so, persons who are leading and directing in the way will have something of "Jerusalem above" about them, such as garments, speaking figuratively; they will not be conformed to this world in their habiliments and appearances, but they will be transformed by the renewing of the mind. They will be marked by something of Jerusalem above, what is morally elevated -- not of this world. "Be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God" (Romans 12:2). It must be by the renewing of the mind.

The branches here strewed in the way alongside the garments are fresh branches, not branches blown off by the wind; they are just cut down, which suggests freshness; the people keep on cutting them down, and keep on strewing their garments on the way. The branches are from living trees, and the way is strewn with them. The established church service, for instance, is about three hundred years old, and as such you could not consider it as fresh; it does not indicate the way that Christ is on; neither do all the

other things borrowed to any extent from judaism. In making these remarks I am not attacking anything, but mention these facts to show what "the way" means. It is a fresh matter, and the thought comes home to one's soul in connection with the guiding of people's feet into the way. In Luke 1 Zacharias and Elizabeth are spoken of. They are both growing old, and when old we are inclined to be old in our ways, and also spiritually; these two were not ready for the answers to their prayers. One of the most important things is, not only to pray, but to be ready for answers. Zacharias was not ready for the answer to his prayers, and therefore he was made dumb for a period, but when his mouth was opened he praised God. He was a priest and had often taken part: indeed, we are told that he was offering incense, but did he ever speak with freshness before? Now he blesses God in spiritual energy. It is a beautiful passage. The first thing he does when his tongue is loosed is to bless God. He speaks about our feet being guided into the way of peace. He was not doing that when he was not ready for answers to his prayers. The son -- John -- was about to come, and he was not ready for him, but now he can talk about divine manifestations and the dayspring from on high; what freshness! This is a very great service, surely, and it runs through Luke. Here in Matthew it is no antiquated religious ritual that is in mind in these branches being cut down. Ritual and all the paraphernalia that goes with it would never draw me to Christ, or into the way of God. The divine thought includes freshness. The branches were cut from growing trees, and they are strewn in the way. You see, dear brethren, if we look at the figure, for it is that, it is a question of freshness and keeping on with it, so that the whole way is strewn with suggestions of life. These branches would not be used again; if the Lord went

that way again, there would be another cutting down, that is the principle.

I think, therefore, that Aquila and Priscilla had in mind that Apollos, who is showing such excellent signs of becoming a great servant, should come into their circumstances. It is not a meeting-room matter although it was in the synagogue where he spoke, but Scripture does not say that they talked to him in the synagogue; that, indeed, would be an antiquated place, evidently it was in their house; they "took him to them". That is a principle in the chapter, it is what the chapter begins with. They were not 'society' people according to the world's estimation, for they were tent-makers. They had travelled, however. Aquila came from the east; he had been to Rome, which place he was compelled to leave because the Emperor directed that all Jews should leave Rome. He was still regarded as a Jew, although a christian. It is remarkable that these two persons are said to have had an assembly in their house in Rome, and they also had an assembly in their house elsewhere, no doubt at Ephesus (1 Corinthians 16:19). They were that kind of persons. You could look into their circumstances. If you had an assembly in your house you could not have novels and other such worldly things lying around on the tables and shelves, because that would be utterly incongruous in a house where saints met in holy assembly.

I refer to this because one's house is like one's garments, it is near to one and thus suggestive of our circumstances. My house should certainly be "in the way", and should attract others into the way. They "took him to them". It is not a matter of standing at the door of the synagogue as the people are coming out, to talk to him about the way more exactly. It was most important that he should get into the right atmosphere if he should learn the way

of God more exactly. You can understand how important this service was to Apollos, about to become a very great servant. These two people took him to them and talked to him about the way of God. He would be impressed not only by what they said, but by their way of living, their lodgings or house; they would not put on appearances, being outwardly ordinary persons making tents. Paul had lived with them. How one would love to hear them telling how they and Paul conversed together in that lodging place at Corinth; and possibly they went regularly together to make tents. What would be their conversation? Whatever it was, you may be sure that Paul predominated, and Apollos, coming into contact with Aquila and Priscilla, would come into the gain of that. So that Apollos would be impressed not only by what they said, but by their immediate circumstances, and the accuracy with which they spoke to him of the things of God. He was an accurate man, Luke says of him, "an eloquent man, who was mighty in the scriptures, arrived at Ephesus. He was instructed in the way of the Lord, and being fervent in his spirit, he spoke and taught exactly" (Acts 18:24, 25). We are reminded of what a man Apollos was; a potential servant in dealing with the things of God so far as he went in an accurate way. Then we come to this brother and his wife -- I think it is well for sisters to notice Priscilla, how thoroughly she was equal to her responsibilities and privileges. She certainly would not intrude or interfere with what was being said by Aquila to this brother, but she would in a subject way add to it. What a conversation it must have been!

I want to convey how necessary are these branches, spoken of in Matthew 21; they speak of freshness; one great need of the moment is getting souls into the way of God; to do this things must be

fresh. I do not believe anything is more effective on exercised souls than the truth ministered in freshness. There is always plenty of staleness and doctrine, but what is needed is freshness, not in speculation, but given with spiritual accuracy. That is what comes out in this passage, the accurate way in which Aquila and Priscilla instruct this brother, who is a man of gift. It is a question of their moral character, and ability to instruct him in the way of God more exactly; they took him to them. There was nothing about them that would in any way discredit the things they brought to the attention of Apollos; we see him thus set on the way, a needed man at the time, no doubt. Verse 27 says, "And when he purposed to go into Achaia, the brethren wrote to the disciples engaging them to receive him, who, being come, contributed much to those who believed through grace". That is, they were people of faith, and Apollos was able to help them much. I think the word here is to be noted, as it indicates that persons to be helped, in this sense, must believe.

I want now to dwell further on this cutting down of branches. I have enjoyed the thought, and hope it will be enjoyed by all of us, as it indicates what is fresh. They kept on cutting them down, and the Lord Jesus rode triumphantly, in these circumstances, into Jerusalem, and the question is, "Who is this?" not who are the people cutting down the branches, but who is this glorious Person who is before us? It is a question of who Christ is, and one thing that the Lord would stress is the inexhaustible resources, the unsearchable riches of Christ. "The prophet ... from Nazareth" was not all, but there was truth in the designation. What a beautiful note, "Hosanna to the Son of David". The blind man began the note and it is carried through under these circumstances (verse 9); the children take it up (verse 15)

and the Lord says, "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise" (verse 16).

The passage in Genesis is to show how the assembly is to be reached as the bride of Christ; not here as the mother. It is one of the most interesting sections in Scripture, that is, as presenting the assembly, typically, as the object of Christ's affections. I read that one verse because it shows how the servant of Abraham brings in the idea of the way. "I being in the way, Jehovah has led me to the house of my master's brethren" (verse 27). "I being in the way". If we refer back in the chapter, we shall see what an exalted man he was. He is under oath to his master Abraham for one thing, to secure a wife for his son, from Abraham's family, and that he was not to take Isaac out of the land. It is a heavenly matter, one of the most exalted subjects you can treat of. The servant is thoroughly with his master, and I may say that if we are to reach the thought of the bride of Christ -- what the assembly is to Christ as the object of His affections -- we do well to look into the way of this servant. He takes ten camels of his master's. The servant is over everything that Abraham had, suggestive of the resources available to us in a spiritual sense as on this line. The resources are abundant, ten camels of his master's were enough. I want to show that the way is the way of prayer; how beautifully he prayed to God about this great matter.

There is no time to go into details, although all is worthy of looking into. How he prayed and told Jehovah the whole matter, and Jehovah answered him exactly according to the desire of his heart. He is entirely free from personal consideration, entirely free for the will of his master. And when the prayer is answered, he bowed down and said, "Blessed be Jehovah, God of my master Abraham, who has not withdrawn his loving-kindness and his

faithfulness from my master; I being in the way, Jehovah has led me to the house of my masters brethren" (verse 27). Three times in the one verse appears the word "master". It is a very beautiful passage and is intended to help us to reach this refined and glorious end, the assembly, the bride of Christ; the object of Christ's supreme affections. Is it not attractive? Is there here any who would not wish to reach this, and get the idea into his soul? The servant says, "I being in the way", and this is to be noted. Ten camels indicate power enough, but the camels alone will not do, prayer is essential to this matter, and the prayer secures an answer and he finds her whom he sought. He had his ideal for Isaac: one who would be suitable for Isaac -- for we must learn the assembly from our knowledge of Christ and what is suitable to Christ. The gospel brings Christ to me, and Christ seen in the gospel must have a counterpart, and I must learn what she is to be from what Christ is. This is the line on which the servant of Abraham finds Rebecca. It is "the way", hence he could say, "I being in the way, Jehovah has led me to the house of my master's brethren".

It is the way of diligent prayers, and answers to them. It is one of the most remarkable passages of Scripture. Abraham did not say anything of the age Isaac's wife must be; he named only the family, but the servant thinks of the person and what she should be like. He has the ideal, he gets his answer, and he is "astonished at her" (verse 21). Some may read this verse without realising what a work this was for Rebecca -- to provide sufficient water for ten camels; for a girl to undertake the work and to succeed, without exhausting her agility, for it says she ran to her brother. Think of the energy! It points to what should, in this sense, mark the assembly.

The assembly involves Christ's brethren. The servant says, "my master's brethren" -- that is the point. It shuts out sectarianism. It is a question of Christ's brethren, not persons known religiously as 'brethren'. In that connection there is no moral value to be attached to the designation, because it has become a religious term; it is only of value as held in faith and spiritual power. It is a question of "my master's brethren". As to these, each gospel gives us a clue: Matthew and Mark, those who do the will of God, and in Luke those who keep the word of God. Brethren are marked by doing the will of God, and keeping the word of God. In John the Lord says, "Go to my brethren;" that is the Master speaking, and we want to be amongst His brethren. This is no mere religious designation, it is a heavenly eternal thought, and that is what in type the servant is alluding to here: "I being in the way, Jehovah has led me to the house of my master's brethren". Surely this is attractive to every christian here. Much could be said about it as developed in Joseph's history, but it is urgent today that the Lord's people should understand the significance of the word "brethren". Jehovah led him to the house of his master's brethren, where she was who was to be Isaac's bride. It is as apprehending the brethren, you apprehend the bride.

I would urge the thought of being in the way; it is marked by prayer. The servant of Abraham, as consciously in it, exults as knowing that it led to the house of his master's brethren, where he finds Rebecca.

THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST

Matthew 28:2 - 10; Mark 16:2 - 8; Luke 24:1 - 9: John 20:1 - 17

J.T. The object in mind is to show that the facts relative to the resurrection of Christ, as mentioned in each gospel, indicate a certain feature in that gospel. Thus in Matthew the authority of Christ is stressed in the angel's appearance and what he says. In Mark there is one person seen, a young man, with a white robe, indicating persons who minister and that they are to be marked by energy and purity. In Luke we have two men in shining garments, indicating the priesthood -- two men. Our priesthood is a heavenly one, priesthood having in mind the service of God in the assembly, inclusive of prayer. In John the facts related plainly indicate spirituality. We shall perhaps see all these features as we proceed to look into these scriptures under the Lord's good hand.

A.J.C. Do you think there is a moral order in what you have outlined, commencing with authority?

J.T. Yes. Authority is stamped on the dispensation, especially in relation to the assembly, for Matthew contemplates the assembly. He is the only one who mentions it directly. In it the authority of Christ is essential. Then we have the ministry, that is, preaching and teaching, ministry generally; Mark presents this to us, involving service in the assembly. Luke gives us an example, in his last chapter, of the saints gathered together; and Jesus comes in -- Jesus Himself standing in the midst of them. John is engaged with spirituality, heavenly things. It is only as spiritual that we lay hold of and value the heavenly calling. John speaks of Christ as ascending, and refers to our being His brethren. The Lord says, "I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God".

E.B.McC. John would rightly come in last, but the others who come before are necessary.

J.T. Yes. Of course the order in which these gospels stand in the Bible is not inspired, but I think the order is right.

C.F.I. Why is there an angel in Matthew and a young man in Mark? Why does the figure change?

J.T. Well, the angel, and the facts relative to him, plainly indicate authority. It is, I suppose, because an angel is a known instrument in which God sets out His authority. "His angels mighty in strength ... that do his will" (Psalm 103:20, 21). Characteristically they do the will of God. Here the facts are that "an angel of the Lord, descending out of heaven, came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it. And his look was as lightning, and his clothing white as snow. And for fear of him the guards trembled and became as dead men". It seems to me that those facts, mentioned as they are, unmistakably stress the idea of authority. Then the angel says, after speaking to the women (verse 7), "Behold, I have told you". He speaks with authority.

S.F. It was a special moment, and heaven announces it by an angel, descending to communicate the great and glorious triumph that a Man had broken the power of death.

J.T. He rolled away the stone from the sepulchre -- not to let the Lord out, but to show that He had gone out, that He was risen. The angel is seen descending from heaven; it does not say he was sent, but descended, clothed with heavenly authority and power, and that against evil. He rolled away the stone and sat on it. The stone was sealed, we are told; for Pilate said, "Ye have a watch: go, secure it as well as ye know how. And they went and secured the sepulchre, having sealed the stone, with the watch besides" (Matthew 27:65, 66). The seal

here would symbolise not only Jewish authority and power, but Roman. The whole power of the Roman empire was in that seal, but then, the angel rolls away the stone and sits on it. Can anyone remove him? Could all the armies of the Roman empire remove him from that position? No; so that it conveys not only formal authority, but active power.

E.B.McC. His sitting would challenge all opposition.

J.T. That is the thought; he can sit there; not simply stand, but sit, perfectly restful in the sense of the authority and power supporting him, and power in himself, indeed; so that the guards, we are told, trembled for fear of him. They became as dead men.

F.W. Did the angel descend because the Lord was risen? He did not remove the stone to let the Lord out of the grave, as you said, but because the triumph had already been reached.

J.T. It is important to keep that in mind. The stone did not need to be rolled away for Him to come out. The Lord could not be held by a stone or any physical limitation.

E.B. There seems to be similarity between the presentation of the Lord Jesus on the mount of transfiguration and the features emphasised in these closing chapters of Matthew, Mark and Luke. The Lord's countenance became as the sun in Matthew, in Mark His garments on the mountain became shining, and in Luke two men appear with Him in glory. Would that be right?

J.T. Yes, there is correspondence. John does not give the transfiguration. Matthew is formal authority. This is essential now, because we have come to democratic times, and authority is vested in power in men as such. Some go so far as to say the voice of the people is the voice of God. The divine idea in authority is that it is vested in one Man. He delegates it to others, but all power is in

Him. The Lord says, "All power has been given me in heaven and upon earth" (Matthew 28:18). Of course, in this provisional time the powers that be, whether they be monarchical or purely democratic, are accepted by the believer as ordained of God (Romans 13).

A.J.C. Is the evidence of this power seen in the angel sitting upon the stone intended to remain with us?

J.T. That is what it is written for. One would seek that it might come to us in that way this afternoon. Authority is vested in Christ, and, as delegated, is granted to us here; but all authority is in His hands. This operates in the assembly now in a spiritual way; in the future He will take His great power and reign openly over Israel and the nations.

E.B.McC. His look would strike terror into the heart of his enemies, but his clothing, being white, would define his moral qualities.

J.T. Yes, we note the absence of all darkness and corruption, such as is often found in those who rule among men. Whiteness would mean purity in the exercise of authority.

P.B. Sitting upon the stone he would reflect Him who sits in the heavens: "the Lord shall have them in derision" (Psalm 2:4).

J.T. Yes, in that Psalm we have, "I have anointed my king upon Zion, the hill of my holiness". It is God's prerogative, God's authority vested in Christ.

L.B. Would it be a joy to the heart of God that He could invest with all authority One in whom there could be no failure.

J.T. Yes. A Man after His own heart. David was Christ typically, so that God says, "I have anointed my king upon Zion". It is a question of God's sovereign selection and right seen in that King. He says to the Son, "Thou art my Son; I this day have begotten thee" and "I will give thee

nations for an inheritance" and, "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry". All that enters into the position, and attitude of the angel here.

C.C. This would be calculated to consolidate the work of God in our souls when we see there is no power on earth to interfere with what God is doing.

J.T. Yes, that is what is in mind, that we might understand that authority is vested in Christ and stands against all that is against the testimony, but is in favour of all that is for it. So the angel says to the women, "Fear not ye". The "ye" is emphatic, as much as to say, I am not against you. Those who are doing the will of God have all this support. "Fear not ye, for I know that ye seek Jesus the crucified one". He knows what is in our hearts here today; what our motives are. He says, "I know", so the angel means divine representation as to knowledge. "Ye seek Jesus the crucified one", not only Jesus, but the crucified One; you are accepting the reproach. Then he says, "He is not here, for he is risen, as he said". So that they should not be looking for Him in the tomb; but he says, "Come, see the place where the Lord lay". All this is for us; divine instruction and power are for us.

F.W. In spite of the crucifixion He is still the Lord. Would that be in keeping with the beginning of the gospel, "Emmanuel ... God with us"?

J.T. That enters into it. It is God's power. It is not simply where His body was, but the Lord has been in death. "Come, see the place where the Lord lay".

E.B.McC. At any moment this power can be manifested again. It should give us great encouragement at the present time that it will be manifested.

J.T. We are to be just waiting. Those of us "who love his appearing" are awaiting the expression of His power against evil, putting down all rule and all authority; and also it is the power by which

we shall be raised if dead, and quickened if alive, when the Lord comes; and the power, as is said, by which He subdues all things to Himself. So it is for us.

E.B.McC. The Roman guards trembled and became as dead men, and I suppose rightly so, at the manifestation of such power.

J.S. Would you say the power is still available, that is indicated at the end of the chapter, "make disciples of all the nations, baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". The power is still in Christ's hands, and no power of evil has ever caused it to cease.

J.T. So it is not against the nations yet. It is making disciples of all nations. It is a question of grace. All this power is now exercised in grace, "baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". It is God revealed in grace; so the dispensation is strikingly preserved in spite of the opposing elements represented in the Jews and Pilate. The angel says to the women, "Go quickly and say to his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and behold, he goes before you into Galilee, there shall ye see him. Behold, I have told you. And going out quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, they ran to bring his disciples word. And as they went to bring his disciples word, behold also, Jesus met them, saying, Hail!" The word was, "Go quickly", and they move under the direction of the angel. Here Jesus calls the disciples His "brethren". "Fear not; go, bring word to my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there they shall see me". The angel calls attention to the disciples, but Jesus calls us "brethren;" and He salutes, you might say, the women as moving under authority. That is the point in bringing this forward, to show that, as we move under authority the Lord honours us.

C.F.I. They were to go without fear.

J.T. Yes; and He says, "Hail!", as if to honour them, and to honour us too, as we move in subjection.

L.B. Would you say the Lord is showing us that no power can go against us?

J.T. Yes. He assures us that we shall be supported, and no power can stand against Him. But we have to go to Galilee and see Him there: we are His brethren.

A.R. Would there be a distinction between the Lord's use of the word "brethren" here and in John's gospel?

J.T. Well, there would be, I think, in the sense that we have different facts attached to the use of the word in each case. It is here, "bring word to my brethren". It would have the same force as in John's gospel, only there it is a message, not for them to do anything, but announcing His ascension and their relationship to Him. It is not a direction for them to do anything, but simply an announcement of the relation in which they stand to Him and to His Father. He is the ascending One and we are His brethren; and His Father is ours, and His God is ours. What is stressed in John is the family relationship. In Matthew He is owning the relationship to Him, but only in the sense of being His brethren. He does not say His Father is ours and His God ours, but simply that they should go to Galilee to meet Him there.

J.S. Would it be right to say that the brethren come in as in relation to the testimony established in resurrection?

J.T. I think so, and we have what Matthew learned as to brethren from the Lord's lips at the end of chapter 12. The Lord points out His brethren as those who do the will of His Father who is in heaven. That is what marks brethren in

Matthew. John does not say that, but it is involved in what John quotes from the Lord's words.

S.F. Does Matthew present the power to be here with us to the end, and John the ascending line, so that we follow where He has gone?

J.T. That is the idea, I think; as was indicated at the beginning, John is the spiritual and heavenly side. Brethren in John is not a moral thought: it is the thought of divine counsel; but in Matthew, Mark and Luke it is the moral side. "Whosoever shall do the will of my Father who is in the heavens, he is my brother, and sister, and mother". The brethren in Matthew are those who do the will of the Father, and in Mark who do the will of God, and in Luke those who hear the word of God and do it. We are marked off as brethren on these moral lines, but John presents us as brethren from the standpoint of counsel.

F.W. Would it be right to say that we need the Spirit to put it all together?

J.T. Quite so. The endings of the gospels were written to confirm the apostolic teaching. They, however, go beyond christianity, extending into the millennium.

F.W. One is thankful for that, because I think you have said before that we really reach the gospels through the epistles.

J.T. Quite so. If we did not have the epistles, we should be governed by such a prayer as we get in Matthew for instance. "Our Father who, art in the heavens". We would not rise to our proper level.

C.F.I. Why is Galilee stressed here as the meeting place?

J.T. Well the effect of it is to make little of Jerusalem in the minds of believers. Luke makes much of Jerusalem. The disciples were to stay there until the Holy Spirit came down, which is pure grace from the Lord's point of view. He says, "beginning

at Jerusalem", but Matthew in this respect ignores Jerusalem. It is a judicial gospel, showing Judaism is set aside, and the testimony is carried on in the place of reproach, that is Galilee.

J.M. Why is "go quickly" stressed?

J.T. Well, it carries authority. We are often very dilatory. One says, I will go to the care-meeting tonight, or I will not go. We think it is optional; whereas the Lord would imply that if the thing is to be done it must be done. If I do not do it I am remiss. If I do not do it quickly I am remiss. "Cursed be he that doeth the work of Jehovah negligently". It is imperative. If the Lord has something to do here it must be done and at once. That is the principle.

S.H.B. Would the sense of our relationship to the Lord help us affectionately to submit?

J.T. It is those who know Him who readily submit. Galilee was the place they were to go to. The Lord in Mark went up to the mountain, and called whom He Himself would, and they came to Him on the mountain and He appointed twelve that they might be with Him, that He might send them forth to heal diseases. They were with Him and thus knew who He was. He was "full of grace and truth", grace first. So Mark says that on the mount of transfiguration, after the glory was withdrawn, "they no longer saw any one, but Jesus alone with themselves" (Mark 9:8). That is the Lord known personally, "Jesus alone with themselves". It is that Person known.

S.H.B. I was thinking of that expression, "he shall be as the light of the morning" (2 Samuel 23:4).

J.T. Quite so. The king gives an account of what the king should be. Those are David's last words. It hardly implies that he was that. It is what a king should be. Christ alone answers to it.

S.F. I suppose the light of the morning is here in

the resurrection of Christ. Can you help us as to these women being first at the sepulchre and the first carriers of the message to the disciples, the brethren?

J.T. They represent the subjective side right through in the endings of the gospels, that is, the assembly viewed in subjection, and answering to the heading of Psalm 22, 'The hind of the morning'. It is a feminine thought and indicates agility. Their love makes them active.

E.B. The sepulchre is seen in all these four scriptures. Does that mean that the Lord having gone into death, there is to be this kind of result?

J.T. That is the thought. The grave is not the end of these wonderful things. The Lord is seen standing right through, and active Himself. He sat at table at Emmaus, but generally in the position in the endings of the gospels the Lord is standing. He is waiting to serve. His love is as great as it was when He died. The love that led Him into death is now active, and He is ready to serve even wandering ones; to go after them, and bring them back too. He is active in love. It is really wonderful what He did on the first day of the week as told in these chapters, and the result is like Himself. 'The hind of the morning' implies that the assembly is to be active in love too, we are not to be slothful; so they went out quickly and "ran to bring his disciples word". This is to bring out the agility of love.

L.D.B. "Jesus met them, saying, Hail! And they coming up took him by the feet, and did him homage". Does that suggest that while authority is there, it needs something more to bring forth homage from our hearts?

J.T. Just so. They held Him by the feet, which is hardly what they should be doing, as those feet

were carrying the Lord to exercise love; but they did Him homage, showing they were worshipful.

L.D.B. Would you say something about "Hail!"?

J.T. It carries the thought of a respectful salute, and that all is well. It conveys that, and here it is to persons already in movement under divine authority, showing how the Lord owns us as we serve Him.

E.B. Would you say that acting under authority comes first, and then the Lord takes us on and greets us?

J.T. The angel had told them what to do, to bring His disciples word, and to go to Galilee. Then, "as they went to bring his disciples word, behold also, Jesus met them, saying, Hail!" And He says further, "Fear not; go, bring word to my brethren that they go into Galilee". He changes the word from "disciples" to "brethren".

E.B.McC. Would this help us as to a ministry meeting, that having a word one should give it? Here "they ran" and the Lord meets them and speaks another word to them as to His brethren.

J.T. I think so. In the meeting you might change in thought and use the word 'brethren' instead of 'disciples'. The former would convey family feelings. One often finds as you proceed that you get richer thoughts than you possessed at the outset.

E.B.McC. We should not be slow in giving a word if we have one.

J.T. Give it as soon as you have opportunity. The ministry meeting requires that if a brother sitting by gets something, the one speaking stops to make way for him. A revelation is the most important thing. What you bring is not so fresh as a revelation, and the revelation might include a change from 'disciples' to 'brethren', something richer.

C.F.I. How would one be conscious that there was a revelation?

J.T. It is through the organism, what we are as one body. It is a great matter if there is a revelation, and if we are sensitive as in the organism, the one that is speaking will make way. The organism is implied here in 1 Corinthians 14.

S.H.B. How do you distinguish between the revelation, and the word prior to it?

J.T. The word preceding might be something you had digested before and you bring it with you, and you are warranted in doing that according to verse 26.

S.H.B. The revelation is more something that would come to a brother when he is there.

J.T. Yes, the Lord would see the need of it. Some state in the meeting might arise as the meeting is proceeding, and the Lord may cause by the Spirit that something else should come in, and so way should be made for it.

S.H.B. We should be spiritually sensitive so that if one was speaking, and a revelation was given to another, the first would sit down.

J.T. That is the thought, and whether we are equal to it spiritually is the question.

A.J.C. Should it be a development of the word already ministered?

J.T. Not necessarily. The Lord might have something else. Something might be needed instead of the word given, or the word given might be in order, but something more urgent arises. That is the idea.

A.J.C. We are not bound in that way; a different thought might be brought in?

J.T. Quite so. It is a question of what the Spirit gives. Still, you do not ignore what has been said. Mark, we have already intimated, presents "a young man sitting on the right, clothed in a white robe;" and the women "were amazed and alarmed; but he says to them, Be not alarmed. Ye seek Jesus, the

Nazarene, the crucified one". His account is like that of Matthew, but the point is a young man clothed in a white robe, which I suppose would mean something that covered him right down. It is how a minister appears. He is sitting, we are told, on the right, that is, where the best should come from. We read of God's right hand. Peter takes the lame man by his right hand. It is a question of the best in our service. Levitical service requires a certain age. In Numbers it is thirty years of age, that is, fulness of manhood, mature manhood. It contemplates the best, and the best given energetically, that is, in the energy of youth, but in purity. One has no impure motives in the service, as Paul says, not making "a trade of the word of God". One is personally pure.

E.B. They see the young man sitting on the right of the sepulchre. Would it have any correspondence with what is said in Samson's riddle, "Out of the eater came forth food"?

J.T. That is the principle, not like Matthew, where it is what is external; the angel rolls away the stone and sits on it. He does not enter the sepulchre there; it is not from that point of view. In Mark the idea of a grave is with the minister; he is crucified with Christ and baptised unto His death. It is His death as stressed in Romans 6.

L.B. Is that why he says, "Behold the place"?

J.T. Yes; he says, "Behold the place where they had put him". It is abstract I suppose, although the actual hands that did the work were those of Joseph of Arimathaea and Nicodemus; only Joseph is mentioned in this gospel. There is some distinction implied in the reference, because He was not placed where His murderers intended to put Him. "And men appointed his grave with the wicked, but he was with the rich in his death" (Isaiah 53:9). It was a grave hewn out of the rock, as if God honoured

Christ in that way. The point is to see that He was there -- placed there by those who buried Him. The grave was there -- a testimony, but He is no longer there. The young man was there and by the right side. It was a remarkable thing, the experience of being in the Lord's tomb. You see in John 20 how Peter and John were concerned about going in. In Mark it is just that they went into the sepulchre, but the young man is sitting there.

E.B.McC. Instead of finding a dead body they found the energy of life in a young man.

F.W. In Matthew it is the Lord, suggesting authority, as you have been saying. Here in Mark it is Jesus, the Nazarene, the crucified One, and the place where they had put Him. Why are those thoughts put together? They do not stress the greatness of the Lord exactly, do they?

J.T. I think it is what belongs to the Servant. Who is He that is serving? Jesus the Nazarene. He announces Himself as that to Saul, and Peter announces Him in that character in Acts 2:22. It is what is proper to the servant because it implies reproach.

A.J.C. Is it necessary to look at this scene and see where Jesus has been, and become assured He is not now here? We should move on from that point.

J.T. These are thoughts proper to service, but then you are intelligent too, not only in the sense of reproach, but that He is risen: you know that. He is not here. We are no longer looking at the sepulchre -- in fact we could not find it -- God has seen to that; it has not been preserved. Men would have preserved it, but it was never intended by God to be a shrine. Christ is not here, but the word is "behold the place where they had put him". It is a question of the Lord's entire submission to the divine will. He has been placed there. That is where He was.

There is a moral thought in it. "Behold the place where they had put him". That is, the Lord had gone that length, as He says to Peter, "When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst where thou desiredst" (John 21:18). That is the will and natural energy of a young man, but He says, "when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and bring thee where thou dost not desire". Peter was thoroughly resigned to martyrdom. Jesus said this, "signifying by what death he should glorify God". What Peter says in his second epistle indicates how he understood that the Lord shewed him he would die a martyr. Peter wholly accepts this.

F.W. I wondered if this would deliver us from this world. "The Nazarene" is in keeping with the message. Men have their cathedrals, whereas the message here is in connection with the despised and crucified One.

J.T. That is the thought, and the Lord accepting it in the gospels is evidence of that.

C.F.I. Why is Peter especially included in the message?

J.T. There is a beautiful thought in it. Luke says, "The Lord is indeed risen and has appeared to Simon". But here it is, "Tell his disciples and Peter;" as much as to say, Peter, you are not left out because you sinned so grievously. It is grace, which is something every servant should have in his soul -- "so also grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life" (Romans 5:21).

S.F. You spoke of Mark giving us the minister, or servant. Mark has much to say in a very little time, and Paul says, "I desire to speak five words with my understanding, that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue" (1 Corinthians 14:19). It is the condensing of mighty things into a small compass.

J.T. Yes, he is brief and pungent. His gospel is by far the shortest. That is a good thought for us who are ministers -- to be brief, not too brief of course, but we should avoid being lengthy.

G.C. Is there a suggestion that those who take up service should go the whole way? They take the testimony upon their own spirits.

J.T. That is right. Paul says to Timothy, "Remember Jesus Christ raised from among the dead, of the seed of David, according to my glad tidings, in which I suffer even unto bonds as an evil-doer" (2 Timothy 2:8, 9). A young man has to remember that.

Now as regards Luke, I believe his account would help us as to the great subject that is being so stressed amongst us, namely, the service of God in the assembly. In chapter 24: 3 we have, "And when they had entered they found not the body of the Lord Jesus. And it came to pass as they were in perplexity about it, that behold, two men suddenly stood by them in shining raiment". We are often in perplexity about things, and constantly, of course, questions are being asked which should be answered, but I believe this scripture would help us to find the truth, each finding it for himself. "As they were in perplexity about it, that behold, two men suddenly stood by them in shining raiment". That is, the answer is not going to be deferred. The two men are there suddenly, but it is as we are in perplexity about things, as we are really concerned, because these women were persons of reality. Verse 1 says, "on the morrow of the sabbath, very early indeed in the morning". This shows that they are people of sacrifice, sacrificing ease and comfort for the great things before them, and now being in perplexity, they have not to wait long before their perplexity is dispersed. Clarification is a feature in Luke. "Two men suddenly stood by them in shining raiment". The same thing is seen in chapter

2: 9, which says, "an angel of the Lord was there by them", referring to the shepherds abiding by their flocks by night. They also were sacrificing, and the angel stood by them -- just there, without any show, and ready to serve them. So these two men are here, ready to serve them in removing their uncertainty, for we should not be in perplexity in the assembly. It is not a place for perplexity: it is a place of clarity, where we have clear understanding, and know what to do.

F.W. Do you mean the light of a matter is granted quickly when there is the state for it and the exercise as to it?

J.T. The explanation will come. The light necessary will come.

J.S. Would we learn this lesson from verse 13 of the chapter, in connection with the two on the way to Emmaus? The Lord draws near to them and meets them as they converse. They were downcast, and the Lord draws near and furnishes needed instructions; they became fitted to take up their position in the assembly.

J.T. Yes. In the first assembly meeting these two are ready. They related what had happened on the way, and how He was made known to them in the breaking of bread. They furnished light for the occasion.

J.M. Is it significant that the women sought the body of the Lord Jesus?

J.T. Well, it shows their affection, the interest they had. Those going to Emmaus spoke of it also. The Lord made everything clear to them. That is the thing at the Lord's supper. In Romanism it is enshrouded in darkness, whereas these two men are in shining raiment: the very opposite to darkness. The position is made clear by them. Luke concisely records the facts relative to the Lord's supper; the instruction the Lord gave to

Paul is very concise. It is remarkable how, clear 1 Corinthians 11 is as to this great subject.

Our chapter says, "two men suddenly stood by them in shining raiment". They said, "Why seek ye the living one among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spoke to you, being yet in Galilee, saying, The Son of man must be delivered up into the hands of sinners, and be crucified, and rise the third day. And they remembered his words". They are receptive and teachable. Everything is made clear by these men. They only recalled what the Lord had said, and these women remembered. It was a matter of taxing their memories, and that is what the Lord's supper implies. It is calling Him to mind.

L.B. These men have shining garments.

J.T. That is heavenly clarity. The Lord appeared to Saul, and "a light above the brightness of the sun" shone upon him. It was a light from heaven, the luminous character of it is emphasised. As the hymn says,

'And heav'nly light makes all things bright,
Seen in that blissful gaze'. (Hymn 12)

S.F. So there is a right move in turning from the sepulchre, though it is a most necessary point to reach at a given time. We are not, in assembly service, to remain there, but to rise.

J.T. Quite so. Heaven is the objective; that is, God as there. Christ is the Minister of the sanctuary: "minister of the holy places and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord has pitched, and not man" (Hebrews 8:2). It is a wholly spiritual matter.

C.F.I. Would we get this light by the Spirit?

J.T. Yes, but the Spirit teaches us in every respect: "he shall guide you into all the truth" (John 16:13). There is something special here -- shining garments; it is a heavenly touch that is imparted when you are dealing with heavenly things

according to the divine purpose. Ephesians is the epistle that enlarges on this, that is, heavenly light, it is specially our epistle. "Arise, shine! for thy light is come, and the glory of Jehovah is risen upon thee" (Isaiah 60:1). That passage is quoted in Ephesians, and made to fit there significantly. Isaiah 60 is Israel's light, and it means that Ephesians is the assembly's light, the light that governs us particularly as a heavenly people.

C.F.I. one feels we have had much exercise as to the service of God, but if there was the longing desire seen here we would get more help.

J.T. Yes. Often lately there has been great perplexity as to the new covenant, where it should come in, and as to many other questions. There are still questions with many of us, and I believe this scripture indicates the divine readiness to furnish light as we seek it. The two men are by us.

A.J.C. Would the shining garments be in contrast to legal thoughts?

J.T. Yes, to anything that would becloud or confuse. We are so apt to stress one thing too much, and one of the greatest dangers is pigeon-holing certain truths. The true way is to hold the truth as a whole in our souls in intelligent affection, and then there is room for enlargement all the time, for we can never limit the truth of God. It is always capable of enlargement. If any new feature is apprehended it is not simply taken by itself, but in relation to the whole scope of truth.

F.W. Is that why the women brought the word to the eleven and the rest? It was not a question of apostolic ministry, but spiritual apprehension.

J.T. Yes, and so later we have the eleven and those that were with them. Authority is there, but in a modified way. It is a broken state of things, but still authority is there and "all the rest" are affected by it, and stand related to it.

J.M. Would this light shine at the care meeting as well as at the Supper?

J.T. Well, I think heavenly light is always our light especially as we see it coming to Paul. "A light ... from heaven round about me". It is the clarity of it, a light "above the brightness of the sun".

J.S. Would we not come under the Lord's leading if He comes in as He did here? "He himself stood in their midst" (verse 36). The Lord would come in and lead.

J.T. Yes, He does become our Leader, but there is the thought of order, and Paul says, "rejoicing and seeing your order". How am I holding any given truth? Am I holding it as something I am in the good of? The truth is infinite in its bearing, and if I hold it in that way I will be always ready for expansion.

L.D.B. What is the thought of suddenly (verse 4)?

J.T. I think you do not have to wait for light if you need and desire it. We do not have to wait for years to get a difficulty cleared. The Lord gives understanding in all things, and He is always ready to do it. "Run, speak to this young man", we have in Zechariah; showing it is urgent. Heaven is ready to enlighten us.

S.H.B. It encourages us, as we look back over the last few years, to see how we have proved this.

J.T. It does. The Lord is helping us, and if we take up this attitude we shall get help. Nothing will be dark to us although the Lord may see fit to leave things in abeyance for a time, and it is better not to force anything. "Think of what I say, for the Lord will give thee understanding" (2 Timothy 2:7). Be careful in looking into Scripture, and indeed into anything from the Lord. Look into it and weigh it over. "Think of what I say, for the Lord will give thee understanding" -- think of it.

We may now look at John. He implies spirituality. Mary is not ready for this at first. "She runs therefore and comes to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, to whom Jesus was attached, and says to them, They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we know not where they have laid him. Peter therefore went forth, and the other disciple, and came to the tomb. And the two ran together, and the other disciple ran forward faster than Peter, and came first to the tomb, and stooping down he sees the linen cloths lying; he did not however go in. Simon Peter therefore comes, following him, and entered into the tomb, and sees the linen cloths lying, and the handkerchief which was upon his head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded up in a distinct place by itself. Then entered in therefore the other disciple also who came first to the tomb, and he saw and believed" (John 20:2 - 8). These two brethren are seen here as spiritually intelligent. They are governed by what they saw in the sepulchre. There are no angels now, but they note the position of the linen cloths, and the handkerchief. That is what affects them, and they saw and believed; it is said that John saw and believed. That is, he was governed by the position of the cloths as he saw them in the tomb, and that caused faith and light in his soul. It is a spiritual matter.

E.B. Are you emphasising the handkerchief that was placed upon His head?

J.T. That is one feature. I am to understand its position and that of the cloths. The word is "cloths;" it is not one idea, but several. I understand the cloths are as they had been wrapped around the Lord when He was placed there. They are in order. It means that the Lord left without a struggle. He did not undo them. He just left. It is to bring out the spiritual nature of the resurrection. But somebody placed the napkin by itself,

as if to point to His personal dignity involving His headship.

S.F. That is very beautiful.

J.T. It raises the whole question of spirituality, and yet these men went to their own homes. We may be intelligent and yet not have the same affection as Mary. She did not go to her own home. She stays by the tomb weeping. She gets a word from the Lord.

A.J.C. The Lord having passed into new circumstances, there is instruction in that for us that we might move on.

J.T. He has passed out of material things into a spiritual realm. He can come in, although doors are closed. It is a spiritual matter.

S.F. There is no thought here of holding Him by the feet.

J.T. Not a word about that. Mary, I think, represents the general state of the saints; the general subjective condition is dark and confused, but there is affection for Him and the Lord owns that. The angels are serving here too. Peter and John are satisfied simply because of what they saw in the sepulchre. They saw and believed.

E.B. How different from that which would require direct legal proof. If we were more spiritual we would pray for spiritual suggestions and get them.

F.W. Was it spirituality that lead them to go away? "The disciples therefore went away again to their own home".

J.T. I would say it implies that there was no need of staying there any more. The Lord is not here, but "their own home" does not fit too well with spirituality, I think. You would be desirous of finding Him. That is the next thing. Mary wanted Him -- but she was dark as to His resurrection.

E.B.McC. They are not shining garments here, but "white". Why is that?

J.T. The whole aspect of the sepulchre now points to the Lord's dignity; whiteness being, as usual, purity. His head and feet are stressed. The feet would refer to His walk here, but His head would refer to His dignity; headship is implied. Mary needed to be revolutionised. She spoke about carrying Him away. That is a poor thought.

G.W. We have spiritual intelligence in Peter and John on the one hand, but affection in Mary on the other. We need the two features.

J.T. It is to Mary's credit that she wanted the Lord, but she needed to have her soul enlightened. The appearance of the angels would mean that she needed to be completely changed in her outlook. She must not think she could carry Him away. He is a divine Person and you cannot compass Him.

A.J.C. So spiritual impressions as light from God are not sufficient in themselves. Mary waited for the Person.

J.T. Yes. If Peter and John had waited, they would have had more than the cloths pointed out. We need the Lord. He came in amongst them in due course.

THE DIVINE ECONOMY

Matthew 28:19, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:5, 6; John 20:17; Ephesians 2:18

J.T. It is in mind to stress these scriptures as speaking of the Father. The first, in Matthew 28, contemplating the three Persons of the Godhead, to the name of all of whom we are baptised. The second, in 1 Corinthians 8, shows how christians distinguish between the divine Persons, discerning the Father to be regarded as the one God; the Son, as acting in a mediatorial way in effecting everything for Him. The third scripture, in John 20, speaks of the Lord associating us with Himself in His relation with the Father -- His Father our Father, His God our God. Finally how we draw near, how we have access to the Father through Christ by the one Spirit (Ephesians 2:18); this verse in a very concise way presenting the economy into which God has come, and how we recognise it in drawing near. It is hoped that we may be helped in looking at these scriptures from these points of view, and have more intelligent liberty in our service to God.

A.M.H. Baptising to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. The word 'to' helps in what you are saying, that it is the great end in view.

J.T. You mean it is not 'in', but 'to' -- "to the name". It is in keeping with what is in the Lord's mind when He says here, "make disciples;" the apostles are to make disciples. Being baptised to the name of divine Persons involves the economy that they have come into; we are introduced into all the wonderful light implied in the name of the three Persons. It is the faith period that is in mind, what God is as thus presented. We are baptised into all that, introduced into all by baptism, and taught to

observe all things whatsoever the Lord had enjoined. He then says, that He is with them; "behold, I am with you".

W.H.U. Would you help us as to the difference in baptising "in the name" of the Lord Jesus (Acts 10:48), and to the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit? What difference should we have in our minds?

J.T. Here baptism is 'to', or 'unto' the Name. It is a question of what we are introduced into, as over against judaism and paganism.

C.A.I. Is this dispensation set up in the light of the relations of divine Persons to one another as thus revealed?

J.T. Yes, here it is the order in which They are set. We could not reverse that order, the order is "the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". This involves the economy into which God has come, and in which all that He is in grace and power is presented and available to us.

W.H.U. Would baptism 'in' the name bring in divine authority? Baptising 'to' the name introduces us into a system connected with that name.

J.T. Yes. Baptism had existed before. "All were baptised unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea" (1 Corinthians 10:2), not unto the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 'In' the name would mean that all that name stands for is available. I think there is protection in it. 'To' involves what we are introduced into, the light and privilege generally of christianity; the making, indeed, of disciples.

A.M.H. Would you say a little as to the making of disciples? You emphasised that.

J.T. It implies that the apostles had moral power and hence would exert influence for good over men. One not only affords light to people, but influences them by what is in oneself, and that influence

would be exerted to bring persons into what is involved in this wonderful light. You not only enlighten people, but you influence them in a formative way. We see it exemplified in the apostles in the Acts 14:21, and in the epistles. What great concern they had! Peter preached, we are told in Acts 2, and the other eleven were there with him. Those who were convicted said to him and to the other apostles, "What shall we do?" showing that they apprehended what was implied in the light conveyed, not simply that they were to be enlightened, but what they were to do. He says, "Repent, and be baptised, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for remission of sins, and ye will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For to you is the promise and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God may call. And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, Be saved from this perverse generation. Those then who had accepted his word were baptised; and there were added in that day about three thousand souls. And they persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles" (Acts 2:38 - 42).

I read those verses because they bring out the effect that Peter's service produced on his hearers, and how they not only directed their questions to him, but also to the eleven as if they discerned that there was something peculiar and distinctive about these men, that they could rely upon their help. Peter is the only one who is said to have answered them, but they directed their questions to all. They were in principle, made disciples, because they persevered in the apostles' doctrine, showing how profoundly the apostles had affected them. The point is that they persevered in the apostles' teaching and fellowship; they were affected by the ministers.

A.M.H. So that they would, in fact, become constitutionally different from this perverse generation.

W.H.U. Why do we get a change in the term? They are not baptised here, apparently, to the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, but to Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38).

J.T. "In the name" here, I think, involves protection, and a certain status in the testimony of God; baptised in that name.

W.H.U. Which term would we use today?

J.T. I would use both. Matthew 28 conveys the idea of being introduced into christianity, the whole revelation of God; the other involves our being under the protection of the Lord Jesus, especially as Lord; He is made Lord.

L.D.M. You put that second.

J.T. Yes, I do. I am only saying what I feel free to do.

F.J.F. Paul at Ephesus in Acts 19 baptised certain ones to the name of the Lord Jesus, who had previously been baptised to the baptism of John.

J.T. Paul speaks about Christ to these men. "And he said, To what then were ye baptised? And they said, To the baptism of John. And Paul said, John indeed baptised with the baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on him that was coming after him, that is, on Jesus" (Acts 19:3, 4). They were baptised to the name of the Lord Jesus there.

F.J.F. The other name, as in Matthew 28, is not mentioned in Acts 19.

J.T. If Scripture says a thing once that is enough.

L.D.M. The economy is established in Matthew, but the entry into it depends on our submission to the Lord Jesus.

J.T. The mediatorial service of Christ is stressed in the epistles and in the Acts too. As viewed in that way, He is doing everything; so all the result is through Him, as we see also in 1 Corinthians 8: 6 -- "One Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him". When we come to the actual instrumentality of the making of disciples, it is by Christ. By God, of course, too, but in the detail as to the persons it is by Christ -- "and we by him". I think we would be helped to dwell on this thought of being made. It is what the Lord intends as to the inauguration of christianity; not simply to enlighten people; it was that, but that they should be made disciples.

A.M.H. Have you the thought of making exemplified in Peter, in that his shadow falling on the sick healed them. Would that be the substance in the man brought to operate on persons?

J.T. Quite so. You see in Acts 2 how it is wrought out, how the people took account of these twelve men. If a few brothers go out preaching the gospel in the street, one preaches while the others stand by. Can people see in them anything different from the ordinary bystander? Why do these convicted persons direct their questions to the eleven, as well as to Peter? Peter stood up with the eleven. The Spirit of God records that, as if these were persons already made by Christ. He said to Peter, "I will make you fishers of men" (Matthew 4:19). Why do these convicted persons discern that these other eleven men should be questioned as well as the preacher? When moving about among men you would like to find them coming to you if in soul need.

A.M.H. You would like them to know that you belong to that wonderful company.

J.T. That is what I thought; that in preaching one should be worthy of imitation.

C.A.I. In Acts 3, when the lame man was healed, he was seen standing with them. Does he become part of what is there already?

J.T. Yes. The enemy could not overcome that fact. The same was seen in Lazarus, they believed because of Lazarus (John 12:9 - 11).

Rem. Peter says, "Be baptised each one of you". Have you any thought as to that? No one was to miss this blessing.

J.T. I suppose the transaction would be individual, not as it was with Israel in the Exodus. They were baptised together as a whole as they crossed the sea (see 1 Corinthians 10:2). Here the transaction is individual. It must have been a remarkable time when these three thousand people believed. The idea of baptism would spread. What does all this mean? So many of them submitting to it, and very real in it. You could tell that they were not merely religionists, changing their religion, but they were genuinely affected by the gospel.

A.M.H. "And they persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles", evidenced that they were real.

J.T. And "in breaking of bread and prayers". Many of our young people say they have confessed the Lord after a certain preaching, but that is all they have done. They are hardly made yet, but these people "persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers".

E.S.H. Would persevering indicate that there would be difficulties in the way, and the element of opposition to meet?

J.T. The word "persevere" would imply that; and it was "in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles", showing how the converts were affected by these twelve men. Peter did not specially call attention to himself, but there was something that

affected them so that they would follow what these men taught. They ask what they are to do, and they do it. Then they are added, and they persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers. The "making" included all these things. Why should any one who confesses the Lord stop at confession?

C.A.I. Does making involve all that is recorded of these men?

J.T. I was thinking that it exemplifies the meaning of the Lord's words, "make disciples". Nations have been baptised in an external way, that is, they have changed their religion. For example, Russia changed her religion and has now gone back, in apostasy. There is no genuineness in taking it up in a national way.

W.H.U. Would the making of disciples carry the thought of securing material for the assembly, not merely to bring in relief by the gospel, but to secure the persons?

J.T. That is the idea. Making disciples would mean that a new system of teaching is brought in, and these three thousand people are genuinely affected by it. They are not merely changing their religion, but are genuinely affected, not only by what these men say, but by what the apostles were. They must have taken them as their models. Paul says, "Ye became our imitators, and of the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 1:6).

L.D.M. Is there a slowness to avail ourselves of the teaching? The recognition of the Spirit in the temple means that a new constitution is built up. Is that often lacking with souls who confess the Lord?

J.T. Just so. It is most interesting to see in the early chapters of Acts, how God supported these twelve men. Chapter 5, as already alluded to, is very striking as to the power they acquire, especially

in discipline. After Ananias and Sapphira were dealt with for sin, it is said, "And great fear came upon all the assembly, and upon all who heard these things. And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders done among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch, but of the rest durst no man join them, but the people magnified them; and believers were more than ever added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women;) so that they brought out the sick into the streets and put them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter, when he came, might overshadow some one of them. And the multitude also of the cities round about came together to Jerusalem, bringing sick persons and persons beset by unclean spirits, who were all healed" (Acts 5:11 - 16). That paragraph is to bring out how God is supporting the twelve even in the presence of severe antagonism that might terrify some, but the people magnified them. "They were all with one accord in Solomon's porch". I believe that what has been remarked as to these chapters is of prime importance as to ministry, that the persons who minister are to be the reflection of the things ministered, and hence affect their hearers rightly.

J.H. Does that mean that the teaching according to Matthew is to so morally affect us that we help to affect others?

J.T. Yes. Matthew is very stringent. Of course, grace runs through Matthew, as in the other gospels, but he stresses responsibility and what is needed for the time, so that the assembly might be supported. In giving this instruction the Lord says, "I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age". That is the principle of the inauguration of christianity.

C.A.I. Does the economy in this way become operative and effective towards us through these

men being brought into it? John in his epistle says the apostles' fellowship was with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ, and we have fellowship with the apostles.

J.T. Yes. The apostles have a particular place. Perhaps it is something not noticed much by the brethren, but John says, "Our fellowship is indeed with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ" (1 John 1: 3). Then "that ye also may have fellowship with us", that is with the apostles, not, in this respect, directly with the Father and the Son. In setting out the testimony the apostles have a special place.

F.W. The scripture in Matthew emphasises the three names of the divine Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but in Acts 2 it is God and Christ and the Spirit. Would they understand then that God was the Father?

J.T. Peter had said, "having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which ye behold and hear" (Acts 2:33). Clearly the twelve understood, for the Lord unfolded the thought of the Father when He assembled with them, especially as seen in John 14 to 17; and Acts 1:4 says, "being assembled with them, commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to await the promise of the Father". Then He alludes to the Spirit, "ye shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit". When they enquired when He would restore the kingdom He says, "It is not yours to know times or seasons, which the Father has placed in his own authority; but ye will receive power, the Holy Spirit having come upon you" (Acts 1:7, 8). It is clear, therefore, that the twelve had in mind the thought of the economy, for the Lord had distinguished between the Father and Himself and the Spirit.

F.W. I had in mind Acts 2:38, 39. "Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptised, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for remission of sins, and ye will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For to you is the promise and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God may call". There is no reference in connection with that to the term "Father" as indicated by the Lord in Matthew.

J.T. But he said in preaching, "Having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this" (verse 33). The apostles would have the economy in mind throughout. Christ received the Spirit from the Father to give to the saints -- to the assembly. When we come to 1 Corinthians, Paul says, "to us there is one God, the Father". So that for all true christians, Paul included, it is clearly recognised that the Father is God in the economy, and that the Son -- that is the Lord -- has all things in His hands to accomplish. Things are done by Him; "and we by him".

A.M.H. Does God stand in relation to the call to the conscience, for it says repentance towards God, and in coming to God we learn that He is the Father?

J.T. I think that is how it comes out in the epistles. It is the gospel of God concerning His Son. That is the general position. Paul says, "God ... was pleased to reveal his Son in me, that I may announce him as glad tidings among the nations" (Galatians 1:15, 16). John says, "the Father has sent the Son as Saviour of the world" (1 John 4:14). This shows that the thing was in their minds. I believe the Father is spoken of in every epistle. Clearly the divine economy was in the minds of the apostles throughout.

C.A.I. In this dispensation is God known in relation to any other name than Father, or are our relations with Him always in relation to that name?

J.T. That is as viewed in the economy -- the economy operative. Of course, Christ is said to be the true God in John, and God is the true God. In John it is said of Christ, "He is the true God and eternal life" (1 John 5:20). Not only that, but He has part in the creation, He is representative of God, being Himself God. He is called the true God, and so is the Father.

Ques. One has wondered how far we really are right in addressing the Lord so much in prayer, or whether more should be addressed to the Father?

J.T. That is a good point to have before us. We must be clear that the Son is to be honoured as well as the Father is honoured. We are thus kept safe in our souls as to His Person. So long as we are well grounded as to the Person of Christ, we can look at the economy. If we look at the epistle to the Corinthians we can see how He has taken a lower or mediatorial place as One who is to do everything, having God in mind. That is why this passage is so important. It is very concise, showing how Paul puts the truth to the Corinthians. "To us there is one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him" (1 Corinthians 8:6).

W.H.U. Would the nature of our petitions govern us in regard to the Person addressed?

J.T. Well, it is not easy to divide them up.

W.H.U. I was wondering if we would more naturally address the Lord when speaking about assembly matters, and God when speaking about the pressure and circumstances of our brethren.

J.T. You would have to make full allowance as to how divine Persons are addressed by the apostles. God certainly is addressed in regard to assembly

matters. The best way to reach the truth is to look into what Scripture says. Look at the examples we have of prayer. How very much more prayer is to the Father and to God than to the Lord! Yet we must keep clearly in our minds that the Lord is to be prayed to.

F.J.F. Paul in asking about the thorn says, "I thrice besought the Lord" (2 Corinthians 12:8).

J.T. That is a good example of one praying to the Lord. But God is addressed in prayer and worship, in the examples we have in Scripture, much more often than the Lord Jesus.

Ques. Would Paul address the Lord there because he is accepting the discipline connected with it?

J.T. It would seem as if the Lord took the matter up with Paul in view of the abundance of the revelations, lest he be exalted above measure. The Lord is particularly interested in the matter, lest His servant be damaged in any way. "This man is an elect vessel to me, to bear my name before both nations and kings and the sons of Israel: for I will shew to him how much he must suffer for my name" (Acts 9:15, 16). The Lord seems to take a peculiar interest in these two outstanding servants, Paul and Peter. This would not mean that they are the only ones, because we all in measure are interesting to Him. It would seem that in making us His ministers, He would take special interest in us.

A.M.H. Job says, "thou wouldest have a desire after the work of thy hands" (Job 14:15). Each one taken in hand by the Lord is peculiarly precious to Him.

F.J.F. "But the body is ... for the Lord, and the Lord for the body" (1 Corinthians 6:13).

J.T. That is a good scripture as confirming what we are saying.

A.M.H. "By whom are all things, and we by him". This would turn the mind especially to the Lord in relation to formation.

J.T. Quite so. If one wanted to be helped and to be fitted for the service, one should certainly turn to the Lord about it.

R.M.D. Would emphasising the thought of the one God, the Father in any way limit the thought of the Father to the present dispensation?

J.T. No, I do not think so at all. "To us" would be, of course, to christians, but Matthew shows that the revelation extends to the Jews too. The earlier chapters of Matthew contemplate the Jewish remnant and their being brought into the light of the Father.

C.A.I. Will Israel be blessed in millennial conditions in relation to the Father?

J.T. Yes. The revelation of God involves the Father.

A.M.H. Has the scripture you read a final reference to Israel? We do not baptise nations, do we?

J.T. It does not seem as if it were ever carried out. On the other hand, I suppose going out from Galilee would imply the Jewish remnant viewed in that connection. It is a Galilean situation, having the nations as such in view. The remnant of Israel in reproach -- not in Jerusalem -- are in view, Christ now known as with them, and they carrying on in power to the end of the age.

A.M.H. We baptise out of the nations, taking out individuals.

J.T. Quite so. God visited the nations to take out a people.

F.F. Would the passage in 1 Corinthians 8 be in view of the liberty of christians, setting us free by this knowledge of the Father?

J.T. That is the way it is put. "To us there is one God, the Father". It is "to us". It was definitely

taken up by the apostles. The economy was understood, and they regarded God as the supreme object of worship, and all that God conveys is set out in the Father, but not in any restrictive way because elsewhere the Son is said to be the true God too. It shows that we have to look at each passage in its own connection, and view it from the standpoint of the economy. The apostles moved in relation to the Father, as now representing the one true God as Jehovah did in the Old Testament. Now the other two Persons have come to light and They are operating in this subservient way. They are pleased to take that position. "By whom are all things" refers to Christ as Lord, the Spirit operating in relation to Him to bring in everything for God. "Of whom" (chapter 8: 6), would mean that we are "of" God, the Father, but it is Christ who has brought us in "for him". He has made us for God. "By whom are all things" is instrumentality.

R.M.D. Would "by whom are all things" be what John refers to in the opening verses of his gospel? "All things received being through him, and without him not one thing received being which has received being" (John 1:3).

J.T. It is the same thing, only he is alluding there to creation, all that had been effected before, our Lord being then in the form of God. Now He has become incarnate, and in this position is the one Lord, Jesus Christ. Peter says, "God has made him ... both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36). Paul says, "one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things". He is the One doing things, and we by Him. There is a positive result in the service of Christ in this way.

C.A.I. Would the reference to the gospel of God concerning His Son in Romans, and also God having sent His own Son (Romans 8:3), indicate that God as referred to is the Father?

J.T. The word God never loses its fulness. The word Father is more limited, so that the word God should stand out in our souls. God judges, for instance, but the Father judges no one, so we are to understand that if it says, "God our Father" that Person is to be regarded as God. If the judgment is to take place, it is through the Mediator, the Son, the Lord. The Father "has given all judgment to the Son" (John 5:22), because He is Son of man, but still God is doing it. God made the worlds, but then One now known as Son, did it in detail. It is very difficult to put the truth of the Deity into words; it is impossible really. There is this doctrine, of course, but if we are to get the truth, the way is to set ourselves, as it were, alongside the Lord and in dependence on Him, compare the Scriptures. See how the disciples looked at things! They are the ones commissioned to teach and we are to learn from them. "Teaching them", the Lord said, "to observe all things whatsoever I have enjoined you". Let us see how they looked at things.

John 20 fits in, after we see there is one God the Father, as Christ's Father and Christ's God. We are now on another level. It is a question of being brought into our proper relations and privileges, and how we are being brought into our position which answers to the purpose of God. The Lord is going all the way here; it is a climax to regard Him in this light; His Father, our Father; His God, our God. He is bringing us on to a wonderful plane so that we are to understand that we are His brethren. He calls us "My brethren".

F.J.F. Does this involve the truth of his Headship as set forth by Paul?

J.T. Well, of course, that is Paul's line. This is the family side. Paul is the family line too, but headship has to do in its fulness with the administration: "head over all things to the assembly, which

is his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all" (Ephesians 1:22, 23). It is what He is in a public way, so to speak. The Lord in John 20 takes up Mary who is now thoroughly adjusted and in touch with Him, and gives her the message to the brethren. He says, "Touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God". He is bringing them into the family position, answering to the purpose of God. He has in mind, too, what they are to be here in testimony: the passage goes on to that, but He would first set them in their souls on this wonderful level.

L.D.M. Do you get stress laid on the thought of the disciples? "Where the disciples were". It is not the assembly, but rather the persons.

J.T. It is persons, and an inner thought -- where they were. The next time "his disciples were again within", again showing the inner thought, which they understood. They are in the spirit of the thing; they were again within, and "then came Jesus". The Spirit of God records the fact so as to produce an effect in our minds. It is that inner things are in mind. John has that in mind. David built "inward", (2 Samuel 5:9).

In Ephesians 2:17 Christ is seen as preaching. "Coming, he has preached the glad tidings of peace to you who were afar off, and the glad tidings of peace to those who were nigh". This shows that the full thought in preaching is a mediatorial thought, an administrative thought. It is not the apostles here, but it is the Lord Himself who operates, and by Him we have access, "For through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father". So that the three Persons are there together. Christ is preaching, and now He is available to us, by whom we draw near to God the Father in the power of the Holy Spirit, so that the three divine Persons are

there together as we draw near to the Father. The passage contemplates that the economy is understood, that God is to be worshipped, or spoken to by us, but it is through Christ and by the Spirit.

Ques. Perhaps some of us do not understand clearly your thought in the word 'economy'.

J.T. The word is often used as that in which things are ordered and administered. The word rendered "dispensation" in 1 Timothy 1:4 (New Translation), conveys the thought. It is the Father, the Son and the Spirit, viewed as they are seen in Matthew 28, operating in that relation. "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand" (John 3:35). Thus chapter 4 is to be taken up in that light, that the Son is now operating in this dispensation. He says to the woman, "If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that says to thee, Give me to drink, thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water" (John 4:10). That is the position. The Son is operating in the economy, the Father has put everything into His hand, and He is speaking about the wonderful gift of God, and who He Himself is. The delight in, and knowledge of, Himself is put in the believer's soul by the Spirit. If she did ask, she would get the living water, which implies the Spirit. Another thing that comes out is that the believer, as receiving the light of the economy and the Spirit, becomes part of it, because the woman immediately proceeds to the men and tells them about Christ. She says, "Is not he the Christ?" -- the One who is doing things. She is affected, and the men are affected, too; so the thought spreads.

A.M.H. In this scripture in John 20 there is no question but that the Father is presented to us in family relationship, but would it be right to say that in Corinthians it is rather the character of the economy that is brought before us, and the abundance of

grace with the Father? Would you bring relationship into that line or not?

J.T. I think it is more what you say, the abundance of grace in the Father. It is the Father, the point is not whose Father He is, but that Person in that relation. Hence the Lord says the Father judges no one. In administration the appellation denotes grace; love too, of course. So that "to us there is one God, the Father" would mean that Paul would have in mind what God is going on with in the economy. Christ is operating, and He has brought us into it.

A.M.H. The highest level is that we are brought into this relationship together with Christ and with the Father. We often speak about sons of God, but not often of sons of the Father. Would you say something as to that?

J.T. I think sons of the Father is quite right, but generally speaking it is sons of God. The Father is a progressive thought; God being the ultimate thought; and it is God according to the scripture in Hebrews 2, although God is not mentioned formally. "For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory" (Hebrews 2:10). That is God and what He is doing.

Rem. "Heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ" (Romans 8:17).

J.T. Quite so.

L.D.M. David says in his wonderful prayer, "And now, Jehovah, thou art that God" (1 Chronicles 17:26). I was wondering whether there was some anticipation of the economy in David's mind, because of the variety of expressions he uses in addressing God.

J.T. There is such peculiar richness, that you might well say he goes beyond his dispensation.

F.W. Would sons of God be a more appropriate expression for us because we are sons of God in Christ, not directly?

J.T. We are sons of God. The formal statement to us is "ye are all God's sons by faith in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:26). Other scriptures, particularly Ephesians 1:3 - 6, show that our position before God is in Christ, but the best authorities, including J.N.D., connect faith with Christ Jesus in Galatians 3:26; that is, that Christ is the object of faith. I think, too, we are safe in saying that we are sons of God in a sense directly, for it says "ye are all God's sons", and also "because ye are sons, God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father" (Galatians 4:6). This makes us consciously sons; but hearts crying "Abba, Father" places us directly in relation to God, and yet we cannot ignore that there must be a mediatorial thought in it.

F.W. The question of sonship is important in that way. We are sons by adoption, not by birth.

J.T. We come into it now by faith, and the Spirit is the Spirit of adoption in us. "God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father", and this makes us consciously sons, but, still the mediatorial thought must be there, because we are there before God in Christ, and our access is by Him. We cannot even draw near to the Father except by Him, John 14:6.

E.S.H. The adoption is "through Jesus Christ to himself" (Ephesians 1:5).

J.T. He would have us to understand the position -- that all is in and through Christ. God loves to hear us speak to Him in the Spirit of adoption as Christ spoke to Him.

F.J.F. Is everything directed to God the Father in that way, because He has remained in what might be called the essential place of God?

J.T. Well, everything, as we might say, that stands related to the economy, but other things have to be borne in mind. The Lord is seen as God. "He is the true God and eternal life" (1 John 5:20). We must make room for that. It is remarkable in John's writings, especially in the epistles, how the pronouns are used. We cannot be sure whether it is the Father or the Son, showing that we should not pigeon-hole these inscrutably great things. The best way is to hold the truth in faith and make room for enlargement in ourselves.

PURCHASE FOR DIVINE PURPOSES

Matthew 13:44 - 46; 1 Chronicles 21:18 - 25; Genesis 23: 11 - 19; Revelation 3:18

I wish to speak at this time about purchase. The idea of buying and selling is very old, but I wish to dwell upon purchasing as divinely introduced. In this respect it came in with Abraham. It was in the world before, for the Lord tells us that they builded and planted in Sodom and bought and sold; that is how the world went on. Merchandising had a great place, and has more now perhaps than at any time. It belongs to the world, the realm represented in Tyre. Christians in business have to be on their guard as to the mercantile spirit, lest they make it an object, lest rather than a means of livelihood, it becomes a pleasure; it may thus be classified with sport. Therefore, a believer has to watch lest he be drawn into the current of buying and selling as affording him satisfaction. The apostle enjoins us to be as "they that buy, as not possessing". Otherwise we shall be on the level of the man who said, "Soul, thou hast much good things laid by for many years" (Luke 12:19), and pull down our barns and build larger ones, and buy our houses accordingly, and our cars.

All this is a snare, and there can be no doubt it marked the Sodomites, great sinners as they were, but they did in this respect what was in itself legitimate. "They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom, it rained fire and sulphur from heaven, and destroyed all of them" (Luke 17:28, 29). That happened in Sodom, which in that sense represents the industrial field, the mercantile field, besides the wickedness that goes with money-making. "The love of money is the root of every evil" we are told, and industrial occupations largely

afford the means for the acquirement of wealth. The antediluvians were pleasure-loving, social people (compare Luke 17:26, 27) and sociability must have been in Sodom too. Mere social relations may readily merge into what is actually in opposition to the people of God, and we have to be wary of them. Of course, we must be considerate of men as such, for they are creatures of God as we are. While refusing their worldliness, we have to clothe them in this sense. So you find in the heavenly man, that is, in Abraham, good terms existing between him and the inhabitants of the land; although he knew from the divine promise that the land would all be his; he was also heir of the world. What a different outlook on the world this fact would give to Abraham! And in truth, as the gospel was preached to Abraham, who is the father of all believers, he would learn in some degree to clothe men and women with creative thoughts. They belonged to God as the Creator. We need to do this, otherwise we shall not be in their confidence.

I mention all this in a prefatory way. The antediluvians, as I was saying, must have had great social facilities for families, such as that of Methuselah and others. "They ate, they drank, they married, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came and destroyed all of them" (Luke 17:27). So much for the social and industrial or commercial side of human affairs; the christian has to be on his guard as to both, and see how God came in with the idea of purchase, in a most interesting manner. Why should He have to purchase anything through His people, as Abraham and David, when He created everything? The cattle on a thousand hills are His. Why then should He have to go into the market to buy cattle? Why should He have to buy land, or why should He have to buy persons? Well, these

are important questions which I hope will be somewhat answered in what I have to say, for I believe it is important that our souls should be instructed in this matter of divine purchase. It is set out in the clearest manner in the passage in Matthew 13. Verse 44 introduces the thought of a treasure found. It was hidden. The man found the treasure, as you will observe, hidden in a field, "and for the joy of it goes and sells all whatever he has, and buys that field". There is joy in the matter, this matter of divine purchase. The Lord here likened Himself to a man, and incidentally it may be remarked that whilst the Lord felt everything as no one else could feel the weals and woes of mankind, also the disregard of the rights of God everywhere, yet He would be by no means doleful or depressed. An incident of this kind shows what marked the Lord. There are many others, too, of course, to help us in this respect, but this one shows the readiness with which joy came into His heart -- the joy of the treasure. Why should He have to buy the field? He was the Creator of it. He owned it creatorially. Why should He have to buy it? Well, that is what He did. Buying is sometimes difficult, especially if the article or commodity desired is not on sale, not specially on sale. There is no evidence that this field was advertised to be sold, yet the Lord had the joy of the treasure which He found in the field, and the purchase must be made.

The seller is not in view here, yet the Lord in the type, in the parable, would buy the field. There is something in it which causes Him joy. Think of that! How it should appeal to us! He had us in mind in this matter, dear brethren. I suppose the thought of finding alludes historically to what He found in Peter, and John, and James, and Bartholomew, and Mary of Bethany, and many others. He found in them what He loved. David never found

such interest, such joy in men. He had his men; Solomon had his; but they never found such joy in men as the Lord did. Solomon was a figure of Christ in this respect, for he had a wonderful heart; God gave him a wonderful heart. He was a man of great affection. But think of Jesus, the Creator of everything! He created Adam. There was not one thing done that He did not do. He created Eve. It was not a mere matter of workmanship, for His heart was in it; and now He has Peter, and James, and John, and many others, and they are wonderful in His eyes. He saw something beyond what others saw. He names it -- a treasure, and He introduces the idea of purchase, not to purchase the treasure, but the field in which it was; that is, it belonged to the field, as the trees belonged, in Abraham's mind, to the cave of Machpelah. So this treasure belonged to the field; it was greater than the field. But He would have the field, and would sell all that He had in order to buy it.

Now that raises the question as to the position at the present time. Our chapter tells us what the field is. A field suggests the idea of a sphere of workmanship; but it is not the thought of a tilled field here. The time for that is coming; the Lord Jesus as the true Solomon will speak of everything relating to the earth, so that it will be understood why Solomon spoke of all the living things on earth. David spoke of heavenly things. The day is coming when Christ will speak of everything here below. How suitable everything here will be in its own setting! as He said of Nathanael, "an Israelite, in whom there is no guile". He will grace the coming world with such persons -- guileless persons, who can name the Lord Jesus in reverence and affection, saying "thou art the Son of God, thou art the King of Israel" (John 1:49). Such persons will adorn the coming earth; but in the meantime He is not purchasing

the field for that, He is purchasing it because of this treasure. And this treasure is not Jewry, nor is it the nations as such. It is an unnamed treasure here. The Lord hides it, so that we are in a Colossian position. It alludes to ourselves, the Lord has hidden us, but He has the field, and has right-of-way, in order to get each of us.

That brings in the question of the earth and what is going on at the present time: whatever interferes with the Lord's rights of purchase on the earth must not be, for He has His people in it; He has His treasure in it. Here we are in this hall tonight, and there are many more of the Lord's people in this city, unknown to us, but known to Him. He has some of us, perhaps all -- He is already valuing us as belonging to this treasure. We read in this chapter of a man who brings out of his treasure things new and old. The scribe of the kingdom of the heavens does that. The Lord is speaking about the treasure in the parable, and anyone instructed in the kingdom of the heavens will understand what He means.

As I said, we are here tonight belonging to this treasure. Let us take the thought into our hearts. We are hidden. We do not want newspaper advertisements. The world does not know us, because it knew Him not, and faith accepts that. We would be in correspondence with Christ in everything. But still, the Lord has much people in this city, as in Corinth. He said to Paul, "Fear not, but speak and be not silent; because I am with thee, and no one shall set upon thee to injure thee; because I have much people in this city" (Acts 18:9, 10). What a great thing to realise that in our service no one shall set upon us to injure us! "I have much people in this city", the Lord said. The Lord had right-of-way in Corinth.

The next verse brings in enlargement of the thought. It is no longer that He has found something, but He is looking for something, for the thought became enlarged, as I may so say, in the blessed Lord's mind. He is looking for something; that is, if we were in the treasure, then He would look for us in another point of view -- a pearl, as a merchantman seeking goodly pearls. The Lord is now seeking something. Well, I believe that enters into this. The Lord has the assembly in His mind, and He has sought it and bought it, and it is "one pearl of great value". The context shows that it is an advance in thought -- it is the thought of superiority, a superlative idea. We read of approving "the things that are more excellent". That is what the Lord has in mind for us at the present time. We have entered upon the time of translation, and things are pressed forward by the Spirit of God in a peculiar way, and the end in view is that the saints should be ready when the moment arrives. It is very beautiful in that sense; it brings us all into it. "But ... of that hour no one knows ... but the Father". So that the saints are to be aglow with anticipation and desire that as the Father's moment comes, the translation will take place -- the coming of the Lord, too, into public glory.

I want to show now from David and Abraham how this worked out: everything is presented perfectly in Christ. The idea of purchase is in the epistles, but in Matthew 13 we see it in a beautiful setting in these parables. You will understand that they were spoken inside the house (verse 36). It is a private matter. The Lord is going on with us in this way. It is a secret position, involving the mystery. "To you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of the heavens". Well, the Lord would impress us with the greatness of it, so that we might value the things involved in the mysteries of the

kingdom of the heavens. When we come to the assembly it is not mysteries, but mystery -- the great divine thought transcending all others, the mystery.

Now David in type helps us through his failure. He is used to help us. I do not believe any of these failures of the great servants of God would be recorded save to help us; they are written for our learning, and everything happened as types for us. David had committed a great sin, but his sin resulted in this wonderful end, the purchase of the site of the house of God. I speak of it now as to how it works out in believers, for one observes great want of definiteness of purpose in the brethren. I have taken up this matter of purchase or buying, because it contemplates a very definite transaction, that one has something in his mind. One has begun to be definite, to set value on things, to appraise things in their true value; and having appraised them in their true value, then we want to have part in them, something that we can call our own, and if so, the price has to be paid. In this sense, we are not so much looking for gift. One is assured of one's own disposition, which I suppose is natural to us all, to want gift. God is a Giver. The idea of gift is infinite in Him. "If thou knewest the gift of God" the Lord says, and again, "It is more blessed to give than to receive". Gift for service is attractive, but it is apt to be a snare; it is to be desired, and God gives it; but there is the thought of suitability for it, which must be acquired. Thus gift is rightly valued and used as received from God.

David is offered the threshing-floor as a gift, the threshing-sledges for wood, and the wheat for the oblation, but he would not offer to Jehovah what cost him nothing. He would buy all for "full money". But Ornan, who would give all to David, was a remarkable man; he was not a man to be

despised. He had four sons too. Why should they be mentioned? He is going to be honoured in this matter. He is already honoured because he is offering for the house of God. The two men are honoured -- the purchaser and the seller, the seller because he wishes to make a gift, and the purchaser because he will not offer to God what cost him nothing. His four sons are with their father. They are threshing wheat. They are real workers and workers for a purpose -- the staff of life, wheat.

Well, the prophet Gad had said to David that he should go up and rear an altar to Jehovah in the threshing-floor of Ornan the Jebusite. That was the message, and I hope each of us will place himself in the position to receive a message at this time. It is a prophetic time we are living in. Some of us were noticing that Gad and Nathan were David's prophets; Gad particularly was David's seer. And now he serves him as before, in this matter of the house. "The angel of Jehovah commanded Gad to say to David, that David should go up and rear an altar to Jehovah in the threshing-floor of Ornan the Jebusite. And David went up at the saying of Gad, which he had spoken in the name of Jehovah". Observe that! Speaking of prophecy, it is not simply that a brother has a word, he speaks in the name of Jehovah. Those who listen are to judge. Is it indeed in the name of the Lord? Is it indeed a commandment? If it be, it is on the level of 1 Corinthians, and do we not need imperative words, dear brethren? We shall get them if we are ready for them. Notice that David went up at the saying of Gad which he had spoken in the name of Jehovah. So that our prophetic meetings become of great importance, but then speaking in the name is not enough. I must be worthy of the name; one has to go to the meetings in the name of the Lord. Think of the import of the name of the Lord! This would

affect a man as he leaves his house if he is to be used publicly at a prophetic meeting; what sobriety, what sense of responsibility would mark him!

The angel's word is short: it is prophetic. The circumstances were disturbed and peculiar, for David had just sinned, and sins cannot be fully dealt with in a second, you know. After denying the Lord, Peter was not set up until the Lord had probed him (John 21); and David had to go through his exercises for this sorrowful sin, but he obeys the divine word immediately. Immediately the word came from the angel to go up, he went up. He was subject. "David went up at the saying of Gad, which he had spoken in the name of Jehovah". How important it is that we have an ear for what is in the name of the Lord and are subject to it! We discern it has come to us in the name of the Lord.

David is now imbued with the idea of purchase. He understands what is needed. No doubt he had read Genesis. Men of faith would read books God provided. The Scriptures are a wonderful provision for us. There can be no doubt that David read this chapter in Genesis, and indeed, I believe the Psalms are constructed on similar lines to the Pentateuch: each has five books. The Spirit of God through the psalmists would carry forward into the Psalms the great divine thoughts in the Pentateuch. The idea of purchase enters into them, as here. David is not behind Abraham. He used the very same words, "full money". It is a true man that says that sort of thing. He is not bargaining for a lower price. It is a question of uprightness.

The idea of manhood enters into all divine transactions, and certainly any one of us who is in any way in the service of God, and every one of us is called into it, should be marked by manhood. So David says that he will pay the full price. So we are told in the passage that David gave to Ornan for

the property six hundred shekels of gold by weight. There is weight and measure. It was the weight of six hundred shekels, for coins are apt to be adulterated, but gold by weight is the pure metal, and that is what David gave. And observe that he bought the place. He would make full room for the house of God and for all that pertained to it.

I would like to speak now of Abraham and of the burials of the brethren. If we are in our graves, our spirits are with Christ. If we are in our bodies here, we are in the house of God. That is the position. David is, in type, looking after the saints in their bodies, making plenty of room for them. The early chapters in Acts show how room was there: there was great increase in the number of persons. But the saints have to be looked after in view of their disembodiment. Both Peter and Paul contemplated putting off their tabernacles. Provision had to be made for this. The apostle Paul says, "those who have fallen asleep through Jesus", a most beautiful expression. The Lord sees to our falling asleep, and to our burial. Devout men carry us to our burial, all under the Lord. The Lord is saying by the Spirit in Genesis 23 that He is providing with the greatest care for the burials of His people. Does not love enter into it? It does indeed. Abraham was in the presence of his dead when he said this. It is not until he makes the purchase in the most formal manner that we are told in verse 19 "after this, Abraham buried Sarah his wife". "After this;" and every burial since that time is "after this", that is after this care of love has been expended, this precious interest in the burials of the saints. It is a matter of faith. Nothing is more a matter of faith. It is the father of the faithful who buys this burying ground. Jacob takes it up in the most definite way, and would

be buried there. He was carried over into Canaan to be buried in this cave.

We read that the cave was in a field, and I think that this thought of a field is worthy of note, for do not the saints need room for the expression of love in our burials? They are not cold affairs, such as we find with the unbelieving. I do not know that I have ever been at the grave of an unbeliever, but I conceive it would be a cold matter. God forbid that anyone here should be an unbeliever! The unbeliever keeps death as far away from his mind as possible, but not so the believer. Paul enters into this matter, saying, "to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better". Of course, that would mean his burial. We are not told of his burial. It is remarkable how little is made of the burials of christians, but the general thought is stated in the Acts as clearly as possible. Stephen's burial, and the burials of Ananias and Sapphira -- the latter two erring ones, and yet such are provided for, as it were, in this field, in this cave. The love of Christ follows up everyone, even such persons as are under the discipline of the assembly, under the discipline of God, are buried. I think it shows the genuineness of their christianity, that they were both buried.

So Abraham secures the field and the trees -- the whole position. It is an actual transaction, and that is what I am aiming at -- to show you that buying means a definite transaction to get something that faith sees is needed for the Lord's people. Let nothing be omitted that is needed for the care of the Lord's people, whether in life or in death. Love would see to that as in Abraham and in Paul, and in the Lord Himself. How wonderfully He acted at the grave of Lazarus! "Where have ye put him?" How touching that is! "Jesus wept". However, I am speaking now of this matter of purchase, that we should understand that we should be definite.

We have things in our minds, we know what is needed, and we get them. It is a matter of purchase. If it costs me something then I value it ever after. If it does not cost me something, then I am likely to think lightly of it. It is not a question of salvation or redemption, but I am speaking of things that are needed, and faith will purchase them, will pay for them, so that they might be secured and available for the Lord's people.

I would refer finally to the Laodiceans. The Lord says, "I counsel thee to buy of me gold purified by fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white garments, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness may not be made manifest" (Revelation 3:18). That is a very remarkable word and in keeping with the last address to the assemblies. The Lord tells the overcomer here that He has sat down with His Father in His throne. He is there tonight, and hence the gospel is going forth, and who can interfere with His rights in His field? As to these Laodiceans, the Lord had written to them through Paul, and he tells the Colossians to have their letter, that is the epistle to the Colossians, read in Laodicea; and that the letter to Laodicea was to be read to the Colossians. Had they taken heed to it they would not have needed this counsel, for it combated the evil and ceremonialism of philosophy. It was the admission of philosophy and vain deceit into the professing body, that made it rich in its own account -- higher criticism and all that. Now we see the result of this epistle to the Colossians being unread and unaccepted in practice as divine truth. Philosophy, vain deceit, and ceremonialism are what mark the professing body today. It thinks it is rich, but the Lord says, "thou art the wretched, and ... poor". "I am about to spue thee out of my mouth". Yet He says, "I counsel thee to buy of me". It is a transaction

with Him that the Lord urges. You will remember that the foolish virgins were told to go and buy from those who sold, but before they could buy, the Lord had come, and they were left outside. The Lord would not open to them, although they wished that He would. Here the Lord is telling the Laodiceans to buy of Him. It is a peculiarly touching word, that the Lord is counselling such people. He was about to spue them out of His mouth, but in the meantime, He is giving them counsel, and that is, that they should come to Him and buy. He is not offering anything for nothing: they are past that. They have been investigating and found out things that nobody had known before, they think. They are not trying to get things for nothing.

Although He is the great Giver, the Lord says He is ready to sell. "I counsel thee to buy of me gold purified by fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white garments, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness may not be made manifest". The Lord is counselling them, and indeed ourselves, to buy the requisites. If we say, We are rich and increased with goods, the Lord says, as it were, None of the things that you have are requisite; the idea is, that you buy the requisites for an entrance "into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ". What are the requisites? Gold tried in the fire, and white raiment. In this book and elsewhere there are those spoken of who wash their robes, but now you can see that it is a question of having needed things, of coming to Christ, as He counsels, and buying the things you need.

May God bless these thoughts to us.

THE REMNANT (1)

Isaiah 1:9; Isaiah 6:1 - 13

J.T. I have in mind to read in the prophet Isaiah, in relation to the remnant, hoping that the Lord may help us in considering the subject from the standpoint of Isaiah. What is in mind for this reading is largely that we may see how, in a practical way, we come into the truth of the remnant, involving generally the prophetic ministry of the Old Testament. Isaiah 6 is the prophet's own account of how he came into the truth and became a messenger: a servant in ministering it. That is, it would be a matter of moral instruction in the first reading, as to where we are in our souls; and how we judge conditions in ourselves. Verse 9 of the first chapter has been suggested because it gives us the general position. A remnant is a sovereign matter. "Unless Jehovah of hosts had left us a very small residue, we should have been as Sodom, we should have been like unto Gomorrah". The apostle Paul brings this in in Romans as developing the truth of the remnant of Israel. It is a very important verse, because although we must judge ourselves to have part in it, the remnant is the result of God's sovereignty.

The verse in Isaiah 1 is outstanding. It is set there to govern the whole book. It shows that Israel or christians would be just as the world if God did not act sovereignly amongst them. They would be like Sodom and Gomorrah. There would be no remnant. There have been many nations of great historical importance, but there is no remnant of them; but Israel will have a remnant; and in christianity there is a remnant. Outside of these we can scarcely speak of a remnant. A remnant is what God sovereignly provides. He says, "Yet I have left myself seven

thousand in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth that hath not kissed him" (1 Kings 19:18).

H.H. Is it what God has for Himself here over against the great unbelieving mass?

J.T. The first chapter corresponds with the great professing system of things around, and in this verse it stands out that God is acting for Himself in leaving a remnant.

L.E.S. Would a sense of the mighty power of God for the protection of His heritage be conveyed in Isaiah's name -- 'Salvation of Jah'?

J.T. Just so. Aside from that principle there can be nothing. Paul's last word, we may say, as to salvation is that the elect may obtain it; "that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory" (2 Timothy 2:10). It is the sovereignty of God, and for those who are chosen -- predestinated.

A.N.W. The apostle refers in Romans 9:27 to both Isaiah 1, which you have quoted, and to other verses in Isaiah 10, saying, "But Esaias cries concerning Israel, Should the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, the remnant shall be saved".

J.T. That amplifies what we have been saying.

Ques. Is the government of God moving in relation to all the evil and failure? If it were carried right through it would lead to judgment as in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah.

J.T. That is what the world is coming to. The government of God is employed subserviently, in order that this great thought of God as to a remnant, should be carried out; the remnant is to be the nucleus of what is called "The kingdom of the world of our Lord and of his Christ" (Revelation 11:15). The millennium will not be the product of any governmental dealings of God; these culminate in Sodom.

Indeed, it is said that the city, the characteristic centre of government, is "called spiritually Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified" (Revelation 11:8). The governmental ministry of God, as we may call it, is provisional, and would make way for the sovereign work of God, the result of which is to abound.

W.B-w. When Abraham interceded for the righteous in Sodom, did the Spirit of God have the remnant in mind?

J.T. Well, Abraham interceded for the righteous. He had to do with a great war, and his part in it was to rescue the righteous, his brother Lot; which he did, but the righteous that he rescued elected to remain in Sodom and did not become a remnant. God had no thought of a remnant there. Lot had to get out; there is no remnant of that kind. The remnant is a sovereign matter; it is not anything of the world. Although there are christians in the world positionally they are not of it, and their responsibility is to get out. I do not think that even Abraham had the idea that Lot was any part of Sodom. Sodom was a thing by itself. There is no remnant at all of that.

Ques. So that at a certain point Abraham ceased to intercede. Had he reached the mind of God in the matter?

J.T. Yes. The great thought of government is in Genesis 18. God was on His way; the place where He met Abraham was not the terminus of God's journey. He was on the way to Sodom; that is, on the way to judgment, not to the rescue of a remnant. Whatever was of God, Abraham respected it, and God stayed with Abraham, showing great consideration for him, and He honoured him. Abraham is exercised enough to go with Jehovah; God is on His way to something, and Abraham falls in line with that; he is not making himself the end of the

matter; for the moment it is judgment. God did not say anything, whilst He was under the tree, about Abraham commanding his house after him. It is when Abraham is interested enough to move on the way to the judgment of the world that God says, "Shall I hide from Abraham what I am doing?" (Genesis 18:17). God brings him into the secret of His mind, seeing that Abraham is already on the way with Him. He is taking sides with God; and then he says, "Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25). He begins to speak about the fifty that might be in the city, and he goes down to ten; but it is a question of the earth and the judgment of it. That is where the ten fit in -- the righteous in Sodom -- they belong to the righteous, and however few or many, God respects them. So God did not stop at Abraham's ten; Abraham stopped. Thus the position in Genesis 18 greatly aids us as to what we are saying now. It is a question of the world, and what God is doing; but there is no remnant of it at all; it culminates in Sodom, in evil; so that God has to destroy it. Meanwhile, there are instrumentalities He uses, and these are in relation to the righteous. He is the God of all the earth; He is the Judge of all the earth; He is doing right, and whoever is doing right, God is with him in this provisional way.

H.H. Would you say that God's government is in favour of the righteous, as well as being against the wicked?

J.T. Clearly so. God is ready to listen to Abraham about the righteous, and that is comforting in regard to our prayers.

D.R. Would you define the thought of the remnant? The natural thought of it is that it is more or less a fag end.

J.T. As already said, the remnant stands connected with the sovereignty of God. As to quality,

it is essentially equal to the prime thing; it develops into what abides before God.

J.T-n. Do we see the sovereignty of God in relation to Joseph and his brethren? In speaking to them he said, "God sent me before you to preserve life" (Genesis 45:5); and "God sent me before you to preserve you a remnant in the earth, and to save you alive by a great deliverance" (Genesis 45:7).

J.T. Yes; that brings out the present position, that is, Christ among the gentiles. Joseph in Egypt was, in type, Christ among the gentiles, and is to be looked at from that side. "Christ in you the hope of glory" (Colossians 1:27), alludes to that position and it is in relation to the perfecting of every man. It is this which God is set for; to "present every man perfect in Christ".

R.W.S. The moral state in Lot was not right, in that he goes back to the city after being rescued from those who carried him away.

J.T. At what expense and trial Abraham rescued him, and yet he is again found in Sodom, so that he cannot be viewed as a remnant; yet, he is called a righteous man with a righteous soul -- a very important matter. He felt the state of things in Sodom day by day, but then he should not be there.

W.B-w. The principle of God's sovereignty is one side of the truth, but there must be separation from evil on our side in order to prove that we are part of the remnant.

J.T. That is what we should see. That is how it comes about practically. The first thing now is to see the moral side. We get five chapters by Isaiah before he tells us of his own moral history. First we have "The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, Hezekiah, kings of Judah" (Isaiah 1:1) -- that is the period of his ministry; we do not get such accounts in the

New Testament. His period belonged to Old Testament times -- prophetic times, so that we get the kings in whose reigns he ministered; but in addition we get his own history morally; that is what is of value now. It is not simply that we are in the mind of God sovereignly, but our own moral history is of great importance -- each one has to look into that himself; that is chapter 6.

S.McC. Is it not interesting that in Romans 11:2, where we get the thought of the remnant, we have, "Know ye not what the scripture says in the history of Elias, how he pleads with God against Israel?"

J.T. Quite so. Elijah pleaded against God's people; but what was the divine answer? "I have left to myself seven thousand". Elijah was out of the testimony for the moment, but was brought back into it again. He came back into it at Horeb, and he is allowed to continue on. Isaiah tells us after five chapters what his own moral history was; how he saw the Lord at a certain time, that is, at the end of a reign of fifty-two years, of a monarch who became a leper. A very great monarch he was at the beginning; but he became a leper because his heart was lifted up in him. God was helping him, and he became inflated and became a leper. He entered into the temple of God as a priest, when he was only king. I think that is important to see. Isaiah refers to the year that king Uzziah died, showing how long we may serve and serve well, and yet become inflated and have a poor end. Uzziah was a leper unto the day of his death and dwelt in a separate house.

L.E.S. Would the four kings suggest what is favourable generally in relation to the testimony? Would it not suggest present circumstances?

J.T. There was good in Uzziah, and Hezekiah was a good monarch. There was good in Jotham, but Ahaz wearied God and men. So that the

prophet to some extent had to serve under difficult circumstances. God has called our attention to prophetic ministry, but we ought to be reminded, I think, that it is usually under difficult circumstances. We are not always to be in favour, if we are true prophets. Stephen enquires, "Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted?" (Acts 7:52).

H.H. Leprosy refers to state, not exactly sins, which are forgiven. The thought of our state is important for us.

J.T. Yes. Uzziah became a leper; that is important. Another important consideration is whether leprosy is judicial, or whether it is the normal product of sin in a man. The first recorded case is judicial, that is Miriam. Then we have Uzziah here, and Gehazi, both judicially dealt with by God. It is a very solemn thing to be a leper judicially. Of course there is also the natural working of sin in the flesh. God brings it about judicially too. It is a most solemn thing, and that was the case with Uzziah.

H.H. Yes, that is very serious.

J.T. That a man should serve well, and then become inflated and leprous is a very great warning at the present time.

Rem. The recognition of the sovereignty of God in connection with the remnant would always rebuke pride and inflation. The sense of being where we are sovereignly on God's side, would produce deep thankfulness accompanied by humility, and probably deep desires to be morally suited to the position. God's remnant would be morally suited to Himself.

J.T. That is really what comes out in Isaiah's ministry. It is as he judges himself, and is cleansed, that he says, "And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?

And I said, Here am I; send me". It is remarkable that that voice was heard. It is "who". The moral side is in the forefront as this voice is heard; that is, the moral experience or process that he had been through, as recorded in the first seven verses. "In the year of the death of king Uzziah, I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple. Seraphim were standing above him: each had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he flew. And one called to the other and said, Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory! And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. And I said, Woe unto me! for I am undone; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of hosts. And one of the seraphim flew unto me, and he had in his hand a glowing coal, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar; and he made it touch my mouth, and said, Behold, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin expiated" (verses 1 - 7). It seems to me that this is the great thought for us at the moment, as to whether we have been with God on these lines, because in the process of cleansing, we get an impression as to service. It is not something that we simply learn afterwards; we get an impression as to service, and the seraphim represent that, in this passage. So that the cleansed man is ready for service; the two processes are concurrent.

C.DeB. Is this much the same principle as in connection with Job? "... now mine eye seeth thee" (Job 42:5).

J.T. The process is thorough. He becomes a priest, as we see at the end of the book, as a result

we might say, of the processes he has been through. Jehovah says to the three friends, "My servant Job shall pray for you". He is ready to serve, as the process is finished. Thus am I available to God as a result. I am cleansed, but the impression I receive in the process constitutes me a vessel suitable for service. The Lord on the cross brings out the prominence of God's service in His thoughts. What He says as making expiation, and what He says as completing it shows He is ready for service -- holily, of course, infinitely so; there was no need of a process there. He says to God, "Thou art holy, thou that dwellest amid the praises of Israel" (Psalm 22:3). The praises of Israel are to go on, and He is to establish them, so He speaks of them on the cross. Then as having come through it He says, in verse 22 of that psalm, "I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee". He is the Model; and here Isaiah is ready for the service; the need is great. In the presence of this wonderful account of the man's conversion the voice is heard, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?"

J.T.Jr. Is the cleansing from the divine side here? It is a glowing coal taken from off the altar by one of the seraphim. The cleansing is sovereign, too, is it not?

J.T. Clearly. The seraphim are ready; they are occupied in service Godward, and ready to meet the need. Isaiah is impressed with the glory and with the holiness of the scene, and, thus impressed, he is ready to serve God. That is what we get when the voice is heard. John says, "These things said Esaias because he saw his glory and spoke of him" (John 12:41). He is ready to speak of Him.

L.E.S. Would you say that, if we accept the judicial side, the seraphim are ready to serve us? They are in the service of God.

J.T. They are ready to serve men as need exists. Isaiah too is ready to serve; he comes out of this as a servant, as a vessel, ready.

Ques. It seems that what he saw brought him to the realisation of his own state, and the state of the people; but it is what he heard that encouraged him to be ready for the service. Do you think that there may be many who have not heard the voice of the Lord, because of the lack of moral cleansing?

J.T. I think that is the lesson for us. There is great need for service, and thank God there are many coming forward; but more are needed.

H.H. This would indicate that you have to be sent. The emphasis is on send according to the note. "Here am I: send me". It is not "send me".

J.T. The Lord says constantly in John's gospel that He is sent; and according to chapter 9, the work of God in believers is marked by the idea of being sent, which Siloam signifies.

A.N.W. Why does the instruction centre on the lips?

J.T. In view of what we are to say, I suppose, because ministry is largely what we say. "These things said Esaias because he saw his glory and spoke of him". He spoke twice according to John's report there. In Isaiah 53:1 he says, "Who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of Jehovah been revealed?" It is the sorrowful judicial side in chapter 6; the message that he received is very trying to have to deliver. It is not like a gospel message; it is judicial. In the prophetic realm we have to be prepared for that. The answer to Isaiah is, "Go; and thou shalt say unto this people, Hearing ye shall hear and shall not understand, and seeing ye shall see and shall not perceive. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears,

and understand with their heart, and be converted, and healed". That is a very distressing thought. It is a difficult thing to bring yourself round to the judicial side of the actions of God; you would rather have it the other way. That is the point in what God is doing publicly; we have to get round to what God means in it. We shall not be used in a prophetic way unless we get God's thoughts and give up our own. You can understand how the prophet says immediately, "Lord, how long?" That is a technical expression of faith -- "how long". God's ways are not our ways (Isaiah 55:8), and cover long periods of time to reach an end, we have to suffer in patience meanwhile.

W.F.K. Peter was part of the remnant of Israel. The Lord prepared him for his service.

J.T. Peter's ministry is largely governmental. It is to those who are affected by the government of God; so that he says, "Beloved, take not as strange the fire of persecution which has taken place amongst you for your trial, as if a strange thing was happening to you" (1 Peter 4:12). We must accept it; it is a time of governmental dealings.

A.P.T. Do the circumstances surrounding Paul's conversion colour his whole ministry? Would it synchronise somewhat with the "Holy, holy, holy" here?

J.T. It would. He saw the Lord, as he said, "Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?" (1 Corinthians 9:1). The link is there. I suppose he would never forget the impression; the idea of holiness, that the Lord's appearing to him would convey to his soul. So that there is a striking link there; only he has to go into the city, which is another important side. He has to go into the city to be told what he must do. We must submit to our brethren to start with. I must be told what I must do.

R.W.S. Were you linking this "how long" with current happenings?

J.T. Yes. The message is, "Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and healed". I think it covers the whole message; and, of course, covers the whole period in which we are now, in which this state fully marks the Jews. It is the passage the apostle quotes in Romans, corresponding with his last words to the Jews at Antioch, quoted from Isaiah 49. So he says, "... lo, we turn to the nations" (Acts 13:46), and also, "This salvation of God has been sent to the nations; they also will hear it" (Acts 28:28). But the message goes on to show that it is a question of the moral state of the nation here: "Until the cities be wasted, without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land become an utter desolation, and Jehovah have removed men far away, and the solitude be great in the midst of the land" (verses 11, 12). That is enlarged on in the Lord's own prophetic discourse as recorded in the gospels; then we have the final thought of the remnant. Verse 13 says, "But a tenth part shall still be therein, and it shall return and be eaten; as the terebinth and as the oak whose trunk remaineth after the felling: the holy seed shall be the trunk thereof". That will presently take place. The christian period is, of course, ignored in this passage. On the prophetic side it is a question of the Jews being back again in the land, and God having begun this work in a remnant, so that the holy seed is there. It is not there yet; you cannot detect it anywhere yet except in isolated ones who are genuinely converted. This prophetic word refers to the coming day when the veil is removed; when God begins to work again, and brings to light the

holy seed. It is what was there before; it is not a new thing, for the holy seed remains.

The Lord had this passage in His mind during His ministry, but particularly towards the close when they were refusing Him. It is remarkable how often you find this passage in the New Testament, each instance showing it is judicial, the testimony being refused; this must precede, and then the holy seed comes to light again. So that the Lord in Matthew 10:23 says, "Ye shall not have completed the cities of Israel until the Son of man be come", also, "Go not off into the way of the nations ... go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 10:5, 6). This ministry would run on, overlooking the assembly period, until the last days, "until the Son of man be come". There will be a ministry fitting it here, so that the holy seed comes to light. Where is this holy seed? It is the trunk. It is brought to light through this terrible discipline. Look at the passage, "And I said, Lord, how long? And he said, Until the cities be wasted, without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land become an utter desolation, and Jehovah have removed men far away, and the solitude be great in the midst of the land. But a tenth part shall still be therein, and it shall return and be eaten; as the terebinth and as the oak whose trunk remaineth after the felling: the holy seed shall be the trunk thereof". The holy seed is mentioned; that is the trunk; the substance is the holy seed.

L.E.S. Romans 11:22, 23 would fit in here; "Behold then the goodness and severity of God: upon them who have fallen, severity; upon thee goodness of God, if thou shalt abide in goodness, since otherwise thou also wilt be cut away. And they, too, if they abide not in unbelief, shall be grafted in; for God is able again to graft them in".

J.T. Romans 9, 10 and 11 deal with this whole matter, to reconcile the preaching of the apostle "to the Jew first", but later to the gentiles, for there is no difference. The idea of a remnant fits into that section strikingly. I think we ought to see that the idea of the remnant is not something injected; it is a continuance of Israel's whole history; Israel's whole history is in mind. It is the substance, or the trunk. Job has a remarkable passage which fits in here. He says, "For there is hope for a tree: if it be cut down, it will sprout again, and its tender branch will not cease; Though its root grow old in the earth, and its stock die in the ground, Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and put forth boughs like a young plant" (Job 14:7 - 9). The word "cut" there would mean a hand does it judicially; there it lies; "yet through the scent of water it will bud", the life is in it, "and put forth boughs like a young plant". It is very striking, I think, as confirming what we get here. The seed remains there; it is viewed as the same right through, although the trunk apparently had been dead.

C.A.M. Those three chapters in Romans serve to show that the apostle had that seed in his soul, but it had to wait.

J.T. He would be waiting, I suppose; he connects himself with the seed in 1 Corinthians, not with christianity; not as one coming in after, but as coming in before; that is the remnant. Personally he represents the remnant before the time; using an "abortion" as a figure. In fact, he says so: "I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin" (Romans 11:1). There was a remnant then, but he had come in before the future time of it; and it is well to consider the apostle Paul from that point of view in order to get an idea of the coming Jewish remnant.

C.A.M. That would mean that the prophet goes through in his own soul the import of what he is going to say; so that he knows what the remnant is to be.

J.T. Well, you can see how feeling he is; and all this will be most touching and sobering to us if accepted. Isaiah says, "Lord, how long?" as much as to say, 'I am ready for the message, but I did not expect such severity;' it is a most serious message, "... how long?" He felt for his people.

A.P.T. Romans 11 speaks about being grafted in. What is the difference between that, and the seed that is there?

J.T. The word "grafted" there means that we gentiles are brought into something in which we were not before. It is the public position of the assembly. We are linked on with the substance of what was there; what was in Abraham. We are grafted into the public position. The gentiles will be cut off, but all Israel will be saved. That does not mean every Israelite, but the nation will be saved.

F.H.L. Would the principle be seen in the people themselves at the beginning? The carcases of some fell in the wilderness.