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WATER OF PURIFICATION (1)

John 2:6 - 11; John 3:1 - 12

J.T. I wish to speak of the water of purification as presented in the writings of John. In his gospel and his first epistle he presents the two elements of purification. In the gospel he relates that, the Lord being already dead, "one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and immediately there came out blood and water". In the gospel the blood is mentioned first, whilst in the epistle the water is first. We read there, referring to Jesus, "This is he that came by water and blood" (1 John 5:6 - 8), "And it is the Spirit that bears witness, for the Spirit is the truth. For they that bear witness are three: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood". John was surely thinking that in the last days there would be a need of washing with water, the witness of the blood being more generally received than the witness of the water. Many are enjoying the forgiveness of sins by virtue of the blood without ever having understood the significance of the water, which relates to our state, so that we may be purified in a practical way from the activity of sin in us. The subject in mind, the water of purification in John's gospel, begins with these stone waterpots filled with water; then in chapter 3 water is referred to in connection with new birth, "born of water". In chapter 9 the blind man on whose eyes the Lord had put mud, was sent to wash in the pool of Siloam. Then in chapter 13 the Lord Himself poured water into a wash hand basin in order to wash the feet of the disciples. I thought that the first two passages mentioned, chapters 2 and 3, would be sufficient for this morning.

Ques. Is purification by blood necessary first, before being washed with water?

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J.T. The water of new birth would be the exception to that, since new birth precedes any understanding of the value of the blood; but in general the washing of purification is of persons who already know the value of the blood. These six stone vessels therefore represent believers who have not yet appreciated the value of the water.

Ques. Is it of any importance that they are stone waterpots?

J.T. Stone represents something permanent.

Rem. In John 1 the Lord called Peter "a stone".

J.T. We have the principle there that a believer is a stone: it says there, "Thou shalt be called Cephas (which interpreted is stone)". In Matthew 16, we read, "Thou art Peter", so it is evident that the Lord's words in John 1 were uttered prior to those in Matthew 16, but this establishes the principle that a believer is to be called a stone. Stone would probably be used as a foundation, or in the structure of a building, but here it is a vessel which contains something. In chapter 4 the woman of Samaria became spiritually a recipient, for the water that Christ gives will be in a believer "a fountain of water, springing up into eternal life". In chapter 2 the vessel is of stone, but empty.

Ques. Why are there six water vessels?

J.T. It is probably an allusion to millennial conditions; for this chapter refers to the millennium, a period which will be marked by power, but which will not be a perfect state of things. The numeral five refers to man in weakness; six is more than five, but less than seven. The numeral six often occurs in Solomon's kingdom; while the number of the anti-christ is six hundred and sixty-six. This latter represents what is more in a bad sense -- superhuman, as men speak, while the numeral six may apply, in a good sense, to what is more than man's weakness. The millennium will not be a perfect condition of things, but it is of God. There are six days of creation in Genesis 1. These

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six vessels would represent young believers who are secure for eternity, yet are entirely lacking in purification, and so are not fulfilling the purpose for which they are destined. When the tabernacle was set up each part had its own function, so in the same way amongst saints in fellowship each should be fulfilling his function. They are not merely members of a congregation, but belong to a great organism pervaded by the Spirit of God, so each one ought to function in his own setting. This subject is enlarged upon in 1 Corinthians 12. When the ark is referred to in Exodus 40, the tables of testimony were in it, the candlestick was lit, and the shewbread was on the table. All this is most instructive for young believers; so these six water vessels, being empty, were not fulfilling their function.

Rem. Each one could hold two or three measures.

J.T. Yes, the amount is indefinite, but why were they not holding a little water?

Ques. Does that suggest that each member of a gathering should take an actual part in the service?

J.T. Yes, in harmony with the others; one would not be independent.

Ques. What is meant by being filled with water?

J.T. It is the testimony of the death of Christ not only for ourselves, but in view of others.

Ques. Are we not sometimes more exercised about the question of washing with water than with filling the vessels?

J.T. Yes, that is referred to in verse 6 of chapter 2. It comes before chapter 3, and is a millennial scene; it is the first sign recorded by John, and thus gives us the general idea. The Lord said, "Fill the water-vessels with water", then, "Draw out now, and carry it to the feast-master". And they carried it; the servants exactly obeyed the Lord's instructions. The Lord's mother was not in accord with Him at first, but she was quickly restored, for she at once says to the servants, "Whatever he may say to you, do". This is a figure of a latter day

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when Israel will be restored, and in the freshness of recovery will have power to carry out the Lord's word. All that He says must be done: "Fill the water-vessels with water. And they filled them up to the brim". They fully obeyed His word.

Ques. In what way is this connected with the purification of the Jews?

J.T. It refers to the millennium, but fits in well with the line of this gospel which has christianity in view.

Ques. What do the servants and the feast-master represent?

J.T. The servants knew what had happened. It is important for all who serve the saints to be intelligent and to understand what is taking place. The feast-master also recognised the quality of the wine; spiritually he was a connoisseur. It is greatly to be desired that we should know how to judge the quality and value of what is presented to us in the things of God, otherwise we may accept poor ministry while perhaps believing it to be excellent. It is important that saints should be capable of discerning quality; the Galatians, lacking in this, accepted poisoned ministry as though it were good.

Rem. "Prove all things, hold fast the right", 1 Thessalonians 5:21.

J.T. Often the ministry of the last brother to serve us seems appreciated most; regardless of what he has said, the last is thought to be the best!

Rem. The best ministry comes direct from Christ, and all He gives is good.

J.T. It is remarkable that it says here, "When the feast-master had tasted the water which had been made wine (and knew not whence it was, but the servants knew who drew the water), the feast-master calls the bridegroom, and says to him, Every man sets on first the good wine, and when men have well drunk, then the inferior; thou hast kept the good wine till now". He tasted the water; the idea of water is maintained; it is when the water is tasted it is found to be wine.

Ques. Why is that?

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J.T. Applying it to the believer, it would imply that the testimony of the death of Christ has effected something in him. The vessel is filled; that is, the person is affected by the death of Christ, so that something that corresponds with the wine is produced in him. How refreshing it is to see a believer who has remained silent since his conversion, now a cause of joy to all by his taking part. Instead of remaining seated without exercise, without any spiritual activity, he is active and becomes a source of joy; he brings his contribution which can be drawn upon. It is not a result of mental activity; for the water is there always.

Ques. Does Marah (Exodus 15) correspond with this; the bitter water being changed to sweet?

J.T. That is similar. The waters were bitter and Jehovah commanded Moses to throw into it a certain wood, and they became sweet.

Rem. The vessels therefore represent young believers, once empty, but now useful and capable of giving joy to others.

J.T. Just so. The vessels were there, but were useless; now under the influence of Christ they have become useful.

Rem. As their exact capacity is not given, does that suggest various measures?

J.T. That is what I thought; it supposes that some would be able to contain more than others, but the servants had the mind of the Lord and they filled them to the brim.

Ques. How is that done now?

J.T. I think it is by ministry, which presents all the truth, holding nothing back. Paul said he had "held back nothing of what is profitable", Acts 20:20.

Ques. Is it similar to Romans 5, where "the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit"?

J.T. That is a fuller thought. The water of purification is simply the testimony of Christ's death; a matter of death, not of love. When the testimony is

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presented it is necessary to draw out in order to take in what is said. "We hear them speaking in our own tongues the great things of God".

Rem. The vessels are filled with an end in view; they are full and remain full.

Rem. There is the drawing out and carrying to the feast-master, which the servants did exactly as the Lord told them.

Ques. Why did the Lord direct them to carry it to the feast-master instead of taking it direct to the guests?

J.T. The feast-master represents the authority of discernment; one speaks, the others judge, so that the saints should not accept just anything: the feast-master was a connoisseur, and at once knew that the wine was good.

Ques. What is it that is drawn out?

J.T. It is mainly a question of what the guests were to drink. Wine rejoices the heart of God and man; here it is for the guests, and so represents what rejoices the saints. We ought to enquire into what is said, to see if it is according to God. "Prove all things, hold fast the right".

Rem. The feast-master tasted the wine and appreciated it.

Ques. Is this what Aquila and Priscilla did in taking Apollos to them?

J.T. Apparently what Apollos was saying was somewhat defective; he was mighty in the Scriptures, but he knew only the baptism of John. His knowledge was imperfect, and there are thousands in the same state today. Brethren should have an appreciation even of small things, but also should have their taste in exercise to recognise and appreciate excellent things when they are presented, as it says "that ye may judge of and approve the things that are more excellent", Philippians 1:10. The Philippians were spiritual persons.

Ques. Were the Bereans marked by the same features?

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J.T. They received "the word with all readiness of mind, daily searching the scriptures if these things were so", Acts 17:11.

Ques. What is the difference between being born again, and being born of the Spirit?

J.T. To be born again is to be born a second time; the whole being is affected and the person is completely changed. This is more general, while being born of water and of the Spirit is a fuller thought.

Rem. It says one has to be born again to "see", and be born of water and the Spirit to "enter".

J.T. In verse 3 we have the general idea of new birth; then in reply to the question Nicodemus asks, the Lord partly unfolds the truth to him, "Except any one be born of water and of Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God".

Rem. Nicodemus evidently thought the "old man" could be improved, but the Lord explained to him that a new beginning was necessary.

J.T. The Lord presents the truth in two parts, showing that there are two elements in this matter; water is mentioned first as that which purifies, and may be called the negative side; we must be purified, for "that which is born of the flesh is flesh". Then there is the spiritual result; "that which is born of the Spirit is spirit".

Ques. Does the water remove what is impure, and the Spirit bring in what is heavenly?

J.T. Water suggests the negative side; that which removes what is harmful.

Ques. Can this be connected with "God is a spirit", John 4? Is it a question of the divine nature in a believer?

J.T. This sovereign and divine operation is in view of effecting something which corresponds to God; it is called "spirit" here; but it is to be seen in man. It is not said that "the one which is born", but "that which is born of the Spirit is spirit".

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Ques. What is your thought about the expression "begotten of God".

J.T. It involves the testimony presented to a person. There it does not say, 'That which', but "Whoever has been begotten of God" (1 John 3:9): it is christian maturity. I have to take account of what has been effected in me by divine operation, and to consider myself as having the Spirit. It is the full christian portion in John's epistle. In the epistle of Peter too, we are born again, "not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the living and abiding word of God", 1 Peter 1:23.

Rem. "Born of Spirit" does not imply that one has received the Spirit.

J.T. No, it is the initial work of God which opens the way for all that He desires to have as testimony down here. The Lord said to Nicodemus, "Thou art the teacher of Israel and knowest not these things!" As a teacher of Israel he ought to have known what new birth was; the Lord did not suggest that he should have known all the teaching of christianity, but he should at least have known that. Thus new birth applies to those in the Old Testament, and will also apply in the millennium; it is a general thought applying to all dispensations. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh" was manifest in Cain and Abel; flesh profiting nothing. God must begin again, for without this Abel would not have had faith; faith is not a product of the flesh, for "flesh profits nothing". Isaiah says, "All flesh is grass, and all the comeliness thereof as the flower of the field. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth, for the breath of Jehovah bloweth upon it; surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth, but the word of our God abideth for ever", Isaiah 40:6 - 8. God began to work as soon as sin came in; "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work", John 5:17. The Lord Jesus unfolded the whole secret of it to Nicodemus and speaks to him of heavenly things.

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Ques. Do earthly things relate to Israel, and heavenly things to the assembly?

J.T. What belongs to Israel belongs to us also while we are here.

Ques. Is new birth essential if blessing is to be received?

J.T. Yes, because "that which is born of the flesh is flesh", and "flesh profits nothing".

Rem. Those who receive blessing in the millennium, will also be "born again".

Ques. You referred to faith; does it follow new birth?

J.T. Yes, it is the result of new birth. Where does faith come from? It is the gift of God; the seed is wholly good, and cannot be affected by corruption, so anyone born of water and of the Spirit is fit to enter into the kingdom of God. The flesh of Naaman the Syrian came again like that of a little child after he had dipped in Jordan, and he then went and stood before the man of God, that is the kingdom of God. The first time he went with his horses and his chariot, and stood at the doorway of Elisha's house. He thought that the prophet would come out; but the kingdom of God was where Elisha was, and it was for Naaman to come in and stand before Elisha, so when he returned from the Jordan he came and stood before the man of God. One who is truly born of water and of the Spirit comes to God.

Ques. Referring to the water of purification; is the water of purification in Numbers 19 connected with what we have had before us?

J.T. The commandment of Numbers 19 enforces the use of the ashes. The ashes of the heifer were to be kept in view of defilements that would come later.

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WATER OF PURIFICATION (2)

John 9:1 - 38

J.T. We read chapters 2 and 3 of John yesterday, in connection with the water of purification. In chapter 2 we noticed that the six water vessels that had been placed there to hold the water of purification were empty, but were at the Lord's disposal, and He ordered them to be filled. When believers are filled with that which is the witness of the death of Christ, they become useful, and cause joy to the brethren; when the water in the vessels was drawn out, it became wine. In chapter 3 we spoke about the application of water in new birth; one born of water and of Spirit can enter the kingdom of God. Water and the Spirit exclude what is corrupt and the almighty power of God produces that which cannot be touched by corruption, "that which is born of the Spirit is spirit". It is the work of God which is first produced in a believer, enabling him to receive the gospel; without it no one can see the kingdom of God, nor enter it. What is begotten, or produced, is called spirit, implying that the believer is completely changed, and is in harmony with God; the believer himself is not called spirit, but there is something in him which is called spirit, which will eventually make him a spiritual man.

Ques. Would you say that one must first be born of water and of Spirit before receiving the gospel?

J.T. Without it we should be obliged to admit that the flesh is of some use; whereas "flesh profits nothing". We are all born after the flesh and have nothing that is of pleasure to God apart from new birth; this is a fundamental truth to which we should pay great attention.

Ques. Is it the sovereign work of God who operates in new birth to make possible our entry into the kingdom of God?

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J.T. Yes.

Ques. What is the difference between seeing and entering the kingdom of God?

J.T. The first statement is general, taking in the whole truth, "Except any one be born anew he cannot see the kingdom of God" John 3:3; it excludes natural man as incapable of seeing the kingdom of God; then the second reply of the Lord to Nicodemus goes into detail.

Ques. Is it not usually the Spirit who enables us to see and enter the kingdom of God?

J.T. It is not a question here of having the Spirit, but simply of the work of God making man capable of seeing what He is presenting to him.

Ques. Has every believer entered the kingdom of God?

J.T. The Lord is presenting the truth abstractly here.

Ques. Could it be said of the man born blind that first he saw, then that he entered when he obeyed the Lord Jesus?

J.T. I should like all to be clear about this, before speaking of chapter 9. In chapter 3 the Lord is speaking of an initial work effected sovereignly by God; the negative side is stressed showing what man cannot do unless born anew. This teaching shuts out man in the flesh, however great his ability; then, when man as such is put aside, something is introduced which allows such a one entry into the kingdom of God.

Rem. There are two distinct thoughts; firstly born of water, and then born of Spirit.

J.T. Water excludes what is corrupt; it is negative, in view of what is positive, what is termed "spirit", being free from the element of corruption. It is the basis of John's ministry; in his epistle he says, "Every one begotten of God does not sin, but he that has been begotten of God keeps himself" (1 John 5:18), and "his seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God", 1 John 3:9. The believer is seen here apart from what he is in the flesh; our

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enjoyment of our relation with God and our spiritual progress, depend upon the way we abstract ourselves from what we are according to flesh. In this epistle a believer is viewed, normally, as having the Holy Spirit.

Ques. Do we learn this in Romans 7:17, "It is no longer I that do it, but the sin that dwells in me"?

J.T. That helps us to understand the teaching of John's gospel. In Romans 7 the believer is analysing himself morally, and is separating himself in his mind from what he is in the flesh, "So then I myself with the mind serve God's law; but with the flesh sin's law". That shows what the flesh is worth; it only serves the law of sin. John 2 alludes to the millennium, and to millennial joys, but we also see typically a believer as a vessel for the water of purification.

Ques. Has a believer seen thus passed through the experience of chapter 3?

J.T. Chapter 2 outlines the general thought, whilst chapter 3 is fundamental, and shows how one may become a vessel capable of containing water of purification: if the six stone vessels represent believers, the stone would suggest that new birth had taken place. We were remarking yesterday that Peter was called stone; that is not connected with what he was in the flesh, but with his state as having been born anew; christians also are called "living stones".

We may now look at chapter 9. We should first notice that this man's blindness was not governmental; it was not the result of his sins or of those of his parents; the Lord says, "Neither has this man sinned nor his parents". So in looking at the change wrought in this man, we must exclude from our minds the thought of any special sin for which he was responsible. We should see in this chapter the sovereignty of God, who allowed it in order that the works of God might be manifested in him.

Ques. Would you say that this is not the governmental

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judgment of God, but rather His mercy operating so that His works might be manifested?

J.T. Just so.

Ques. Is the thought expressed in Romans 5, "For we being still without strength"?

J.T. The epistle to the Romans does not exactly treat of this subject; this chapter can be compared with Adam's deep sleep and the forming of Eve; that is to say a state exists for the accomplishment of God's thoughts. The blindness of this man is only mentioned here in order to show how the works of God were manifested in him. Here the washing is not to remove defilement, but to enable the man to emerge from a state which does not answer to the purpose of God. The blind man had to wash from his eyes in the pool of Siloam that which the Lord had put on them, and this mud, made of earth and of the spittle of the Lord Jesus, was not unclean. It is not a question of defilement, but of the state of things existing when the Lord Jesus was here in flesh, a state of things which was necessary in order that God might manifest His works, but which was not to continue. Some christians believe that the Lord Jesus came down here in order to better things in this world. In the gospel of John some wanted to make Him King, and when He entered Jerusalem sitting on the ass's colt, He was acclaimed by the people, and then the Greeks came up too. Why then did the Lord not take power immediately and reform the world? Instead of doing so He said to Andrew and Philip, "The hour is come that the Son of man should be glorified" John 12:23. The Jews saw Him as the One who had performed the miracle referred to in chapter 6; and the Greeks had come up desiring to see Him, so then, why not reform the world? The Lord answered at once, "Except the grain of wheat falling into the ground die, it abides alone", John 12:24. His presence here in flesh made men still more blind, and a divine operation was necessary if man's eyes were to be opened on another world -- a world

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under the rule of Christ, no longer according to flesh, but risen. The pool of Siloam, meaning sent, would make the one who had washed fit to have part in this new world.

Rem. You said that new birth was necessary for the millennium, but this would lead us further, to something better.

J.T. It is as you say, something better. This man is cast out, then the Lord came to find him, and said to him, "Thou, dost thou believe on the Son of God? He answered and said, And who is he, Lord, that I may believe on him? And Jesus said to him, Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he". This man had before him the Son of God, although at first he did not know who He was; then the Lord tells him, "He that speaks with thee is he".

Ques. Can this be applied to each believer individually?

J.T. Yes: no believer is in the full light of the purpose of God if he does not understand the teaching of this chapter.

Ques. What is meant by the "mud", and the fact that Siloam means sent?

J.T. Well, suppose you were living in Jerusalem at that time, and had heard of the miracles, performed by the Lord, that the eyes of the blind had been opened; you would doubtless say, 'We are privileged to have such a man amongst us'; you would like to have a world governed by Christ in the flesh -- like the Jews you would wish to make Him King. In chapter 6 John relates how He fed five thousand people with five loaves and two fishes, and it might be thought that a world in which such things happened would be a marvellous place. But this chapter teaches us that such thoughts are vain, and do not at all answer to God's thoughts. A world in which Christ in flesh was king would not answer to the thoughts of God; even if every nation on earth had come into subjection to Him

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it would not have satisfied God. That is what we learn from chapter 9; even the mud made with the spittle of Jesus had to be removed; flesh and blood must disappear. Christ is now not only raised from amongst the dead, but glorified in heaven; that is God's thought.

Ques. Do I understand by this that the mud represents the humanity of Christ, and the water that which removes all, so that Christ may be seen as the Son of God?

J.T. That is the thought exactly. Siloam means sent, so this man in going to Siloam, is moving in accord with the thoughts of God; as following this path he arrives in soul history at the death of Christ. Then the mud is removed and his eyes opened, signifying that this world no longer exists for him.

Rem. The pool of Siloam is the death of Christ; the Son of God is Christ in resurrection.

J.T. He is "marked out Son of God in power ... by resurrection of the dead" (Romans 1:4), although He had always been Son of God in incarnation. The result of it is the introduction of another world answering to God's thought; I do not allude to the millennium, but to that which is fully in accord with God's thought, and will remain eternally. The "one flock" referred to in the following chapter, has eternal life.

Rem. This water which signifies that He has been sent is the remedy needed for our eyes, so that we should no longer think of Christ as in flesh, but as in resurrection.

J.T. The full thought of God was not answered to by Christ's flesh and blood condition. He assumed flesh and blood in order to accomplish redemption, but He did not remain in that condition. We shall understand this better if we remember that Isaac had to die; it is said that Abraham received him in figure from among the dead; showing that Christ after the flesh was not the divine thought.

Rem. The apostle says, "We henceforth know no one

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according to flesh; but if even we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we know him thus no longer", 2 Corinthians 5:16.

J.T. "So if any one be in Christ, there is a new creation", 2 Corinthians 5:17. Even things which might be good in themselves must go. Christ partook of flesh and blood in order to remove them and to introduce new creation. When this man had been cast out of the synagogue, the Lord found him and made Himself known to him as the Son of God. The Son abides for ever in the house, "If therefore the Son shall set you free, ye shall be really free" (John 8:36), we are right outside of this world; He gives us life eternal.

Rem. How terrible to say, "We see", without this work of God having taken place in our soul.

J.T. Yet that is what some of the Pharisees said according to verses 39 - 41.

Rem. A work of God is necessary in order to understand that we are blind.

Ques. Why is the mud called an ointment: He "anointed mine eyes"?

J.T. It is doubtless an allusion to its quality. The word 'ointment' relates to the application of the humanity of Christ to man; but that condition ended at His death by which He accomplished redemption.

Ques. What does the Lord mean when He says, "If ye were blind ye would not have sin"?

J.T. It had been possible for these people to see the works of Jesus, and they claimed that they saw, so the Lord says, "Now ye say, We see, your sin remains". In John 15:24 we read, "If I had not done among them the works which no other one has done, they had not had sin". They not only had the opportunity of seeing that the works must be of God, but they declared that they saw. In fact they had seen Lazarus raised from among the dead.

Ques. What do you think of Nicodemus' question, "Rabbi, we know that thou art come a teacher from

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God, for none can do these signs that thou doest unless God be with him"?

J.T. Nicodemus had been born anew; he was different from most of the Jews, for he says, "None can do these signs that thou doest unless God be with him".

Ques. Do you think he already knew that the Lord was the sent One?

J.T. Yes. We should notice the difference between this man whose eyes had been opened in such a unique way, and the Jews who claimed that they saw. The Jews could see the signs and miracles, and they would consider themselves favoured to have among them One who could do such things; but the man whose eyes had been opened could see another world; he says, "I believe, Lord: and he did him homage". Jesus, as well as this man, found Himself outside. Jesus, as the Son of God, was inaugurating a new world, and the man whose eyes had been opened was material for this new world which is taking shape now in the assembly; that thought being developed in chapter 10 in connection with the flock. It may be of profit perhaps to look into a few of the details related here. The neighbours are spoken of in verse 8. Immediately anyone becomes a subject of the work of God, his neighbours will notice it. He would not become a town councillor, nor a man of any importance, so he no longer would be material for this world, but for another world. Those of his neighbours who had known him before said, "Is not this he that was sitting and begging? Some said, It is he; others said, No, but he is like him: he said, It is I". He now confesses who he is. This is an important matter that young believers should specially take account of; a change has taken place in you and you confess that you are this very person. A man like that who was previously blind would be considered a useful element in the town, but only in the same manner that Christ would have been a useful element in the world.

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Rem. It is remarkable that the neighbours should be mentioned before the parents: this shows the importance of first confessing the Lord to our neighbours who know us.

J.T. His parents would not accept any responsibility concerning him. "He is of age: ask him", they say; so this man found himself alone; he was left entirely by himself.

Rem. You said that it would be an advantage for men to have Christ among them; but sooner or later would they not find that He does not fit into their system? It is said, "The stone which they that builded rejected, this has become the corner-stone". Men would soon find that Christ did not fit in their midst and would reject Him. So in this incident this man is cast out.

J.T. Men left to themselves are glad of the advantages that the presence of Christ here secures to them. We have seen in chapter 6 how they wished to make him King, but when the truth is presented to them they reject Him, because the truth condemns them. In Luke 4 the Lord says to the inhabitants of Nazareth, "Ye will surely say to me ... whatsoever we have heard has taken place in Capernaum do here also in thine own country". Having heard of the great things He had done they thought it would be an advantage to their town if He did the same miracles there; He had been brought up there; He was one of them. But instead of granting their desire He began to set out the truth. Then they led Him up to the brow of the mountain upon which their city was built, so that they might throw Him down the precipice. To illustrate this point, let us suppose that a young man, in whom no one in his village has any confidence, is converted to God. He is completely altered, and his neighbours now value him because of the change that has been wrought in him. If he becomes a preacher, they will perhaps be proud that he can speak in public, and when

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he begins to announce to them the truth as he knows it, they are affected and convicted of sin. Then the religious leaders of the place notice him; they do not like this kind of procedure so they persecute him, as they did here (verse 13), "They bring him who was before blind to the Pharisees", who asked him how he received his sight, and he replied, "He put mud upon my eyes, and I washed, and I see". Replying to the neighbours' question he said, "I saw". What follows shows that they were exposed, because they did not see; they say, "This man is not of God, for he does not keep the sabbath", so opposition begins. The religious leaders are against him, and the trend of their conversation shows in an unmistakable way that the man sees while the Pharisees do not see. They cast him out; the effect produced by presenting the truth is that they cast him out.

Rem. It is an encouragement to see that the man did not long remain alone; Jesus found him.

J.T. That illustrates in a marvellous way how the work of God has another world in view, as the psalmist says, "For had my father and my mother forsaken me, then had Jehovah taken me up", Psalm 27:10. Here the Lord heard of this man, and in principle put him in contact with another world. In the following chapter we shall see how he finds companionship in the flock.

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WATER OF PURIFICATION (3)

John 13:1 - 17

J.T. We were noticing yesterday that in chapter 9 of this gospel, the man was not blind as a result of his own sin, nor of his parents' sin, but in order that the works of God should be manifested in him. The thought in this incident therefore does not refer to what has been brought into the world through sin, but rather the fact that the man provided an opportunity to manifest the works of God. The Lord spat on the ground, and made mud of the spittle, and put the mud, as ointment, on his eyes; the man was then told to go to the pool of Siloam and wash. What was removed by washing was not unclean in itself, on the contrary it was what the Lord Himself had made with His spittle and earth. It is a type of the humanity of Christ and its effect on men. Apart from the death of Christ men would be in a worse condition than before, for His presence here rendered them more blind than ever, so that were it not for His death there would be only darkness. The washing in Siloam and the opening of the eyes of this man imply that he sees into another world. His eyes being opened, he can speak of what the Lord has done to him; at the time it happened he was unable to see what the Lord was doing, but now his eyes have been opened, he can speak about what has been effected and can say how he was cured. That is to say, he represents a believer who has been enlightened and who recognises that the Lord became a man in order to die; that the world itself, Christ having come into it, would come to an end, and that the condition of flesh and blood that the Lord had taken would not continue. John says in his epistle that Jesus "came by water and blood"; that is to say, that in becoming a man, He had His death in view. He did not come in order to continue the order of man who was on earth, but to

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end that order judicially in His death in view of taking up an entirely new condition in which He is "marked out Son of God".

The testimony that this man renders to the world results in his being cast out; it is then that the Lord finds him, and makes Himself known to him, so that he did Him homage as the Son of God; his eyes having been opened in order that he might see Christ in relation to another world. The Son of God is inaugurating another world which He calls, "that world, and the resurrection", Luke 20:35. "They who are counted worthy to have part in that world, and the resurrection from among the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage"; they are "sons of the resurrection". In this remarkable passage the Lord indicates the character of the world He is inaugurating. The man whose eyes had been opened is viewed in chapter 10 as included in the assembly which is alluded to as the flock. The world that the Son of God is inaugurating is taking shape now in the assembly. In chapter 10:14 He says, "I am the good shepherd; and I know those that are mine, and am known of those that are mine, as the Father knows me and I know the Father". What a blessed thing that is; the knowledge we have in the assembly is as the Father knows the Son, and as the Son knows the Father.

Ques. Is it the knowledge of the Son of God which introduces us into the assembly?

J.T. Yes. He knows us and we know Him, as the Father knows Him and He knows the Father.

Rem. According to Romans 1:4, He is "marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by resurrection of the dead".

J.T. These are two thoughts connected with sonship. Firstly, He makes Himself known to us; He asks the man if he believes on the Son of God, saying to him, "Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he". The man has already seen Him without knowing Him, so now the Lord tells him openly that

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He is the Son of God. Secondly, we learn in Romans that He is marked out Son of God.

Rem. Matthew's gospel tells us that no one knows the Son but the Father.

J.T. That refers to what He is in His inscrutable being, in deity, but according to Romans, He is "marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by resurrection of the dead". It is thus He is referred to in the gospel testimony in the epistle to the Romans, being presented to a believer in soul need, as convicted of sin, as the One "whom God has set forth a mercy-seat, through faith in his blood", Romans 3:25. Then being justified, having peace with God and having received the Holy Spirit, the believer is led on to the knowledge of the Son of God. He learns that the One who has saved him is none other than the Son of God.

Ques. Is this point reached in Philippians 3:10, "To know him, and the power of his resurrection"?

J.T. That is the normal desire of a believer. We ought to understand clearly that this One who has died for us and saved us is the One we are to know as Son of God. This is expressed in John 9, where the Lord says, "Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he"; he had seen Him without knowing who He was, so the Lord made Himself known to him. It may be that the Lord is asking us this question, "Who do ye say that I am?" and is awaiting our reply. Peter could say, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God", and each one of us should be able to say it too, not just because others have said it, but because the Lord has made Himself known to us in this character. It is as we apprehend things spiritually that we are constituted assembly material; so the Lord immediately says to Peter, "Thou art Peter [a stone], and on this rock I will build my assembly". This disclosure of the Lord's fits in with what we were speaking of, the Son of God in John 9, and the assembly in John 10. The Son is the

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Good Shepherd, this thought suggesting the tender care He takes of us, leading us into the marvellous sphere where He knows us and we know Him, as the Father knows Him and He knows the Father. We see in this the marvellous knowledge which is the portion of the assembly. In chapter 10 it can thus be clearly seen how the thought of the flock unfolds another world, and more -- we are in liberty; the saints "go in and out, and find pasture"; He gives us life eternal, and there is one flock and one Shepherd. That is the marvellous knowledge we have.

Ques. Would you say that the Lord was sharing sonship with this man when He spoke with him?

J.T. In a certain way that might be said, but what is more in mind here is rather the truth in relation to the Person of the Lord; He said, "He that speaks with thee"; a precious thought, if we think of the passage in Luke 9:30. It says, "Two men talked with him", suggesting there the liberty we have in participating in sonship with Christ. In Matthew 17, where the transfiguration is recorded, the Lord sends Peter to catch a fish saying, "When thou hast opened its mouth thou wilt find a stater; take that and give it to them for me and thee". He thus links Peter with Himself.

Rem. He retains His pre-eminent place, however, for the man in John 9 did Him homage.

J.T. The Lord must always have the pre-eminence; it is said of Him that He has been anointed with the oil of gladness above his companions. However, it is beautiful to see in Matthew 17, how the Lord says, alluding to Himself and His disciples, "Then are the sons free"; a statement of great importance in view of the assembly. In Matthew the scene on the mount of transfiguration comes between the revelation made to Peter, in chapter 16, when the Lord announced that He would build His assembly, and the assembly itself as recognised in Matthew 18. It is a question of those who constitute the assembly, of the greatness of the

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persons who compose it. All this is in line with John 9 and 10, and is in view in this section of chapter 13 where the point is having "part with me". Although we may be in the assembly, and have part in sonship, we have need of this service. It was a humble service, but morally so great, the Lord Himself being the servant. He poured the water into the washhand basin, and having Himself washed the feet of the disciples He said to Peter, "Unless I wash thee, thou hast not part with me".

Rem. In chapter 2 it was the servants who poured out the water, but here it is the Lord Himself who does it.

J.T. It confirms that it is a service morally elevated. The Lord Himself is the Servant, He has the water, the basin, the towel and girds Himself with it. It is a beautiful climax to this subject, and is calculated to make the Lord attractive to us.

Ques. What do you understand by the Lord's words, "Unless I wash thee, thou hast not part with me"?

J.T. As we were noticing in chapter 9, the Son of God spoke with the man, this with indicating that they had something in common, the Lord speaking in a mutual way with him. In chapter 10 the Lord has inaugurated, in principle, a new world in the assembly, and His desire is that we should have a living part with Him in it, but to do so we need this service. It is an individual service, carried out by means of a portable vessel, a basin, which makes it all the more an expression of love; a personal matter, an act of love. When Solomon had built the temple and had established the system of glory described in 1 Kings, it is noticeable that there was, at the entrance of the temple, or of this system, what is called a molten sea, which held two thousand baths, a large quantity of water. We understand by this that the system required plenty of water, indicating the greatness and fulness of the witness to the purifying power of the death of Christ; so it says

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in Ephesians 5:25 - 27, "Christ also loved the assembly, and has delivered himself up for it, in order that he might sanctify it, purifying it by the washing of water by the word, that he might present the assembly to himself glorious, having no spot, or wrinkle, or any of such things"; a wonderful thought in view of our part in what is heavenly. Then in Solomon's temple there were ten lavers of brass, each holding forty baths; these lavers were on wheels, thus corresponding to what the Lord used here, as they could be carried and moved. On the one hand there was plenty of water for the needs of those who were exercised to be there according to God's thoughts (I am referring to the molten sea), and on the other hand there was water in the brass lavers for the service of the saints.

Ques. Does this correspond to the gifts referred to in Ephesians 4?

J.T. It is a clear witness to the death of Christ, so that no one need be unclean or defiled. The molten sea remained permanently in its place; but the lavers of brass could be moved in love towards the one needing help or purification; they indicate the opportunity which is given to us to serve one another in love. They were magnificently ornamented, showing how one moving in this way in love is beautified.

Ques. It seems important to notice that in John 13 it is not the disciples who come to the Lord, but the Lord who comes to the disciples.

J.T. Quite so; the Lord says, "I have given you an example that, as I have done to you, ye should do also"; that is to say, we should wash one another's feet. These lavers which could be moved are linked with love; a brother or sister can be visited in love with the water of purification. These vessels in the temple were made of brass, which implies the presence of a judicial element; not that we would wish to accuse a brother of sin when washing his feet, yet at the same time we should maintain the element of judgment.

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Rem. You would say that love is not to be exercised at the expense of the holiness of God.

Ques. Is there a difference between defilement and sin? Is it not defilement that is contemplated in feet washing?

J.T. They were then externally already clean. The washing corresponds more with John 3"Except any one be born of water and of Spirit", in the sense that one may be clean for the world into which Christ came, yet have need of being washed by the tender service which the death of Christ implies. It has in view that we should be maintained in relation to Christ in the scene to which He has gone, and that we should have part with Him there. There is a danger that we may carry on the service of God in our meeting rooms when together, just as they do today in the systems around us, though perhaps in a more correct way. The thought suggested by this service of the Lord is that we should have part with Him right outside of the world; and what follows in chapters 14 to 17 is calculated to separate us from it by the gracious presentation of the truth, in order that we should enter His world.

Ques. The water in the portable lavers was for the burnt offering; does that suggest that what results from the washing is for the pleasure of God?

J.T. There is important instruction in that for us. The meaning of the lavers implies that they were to contribute to the pleasure of God in us, in the offerings; what was being prepared for the burnt offering was washed in them. The molten sea was for the priests to wash themselves in (2 Chronicles 4:6); they had to know where it was, in order to make use of it.

Rem. If I understand aright, the object of feet washing is to set us free in our spirits from all that might hinder us having part with Him.

J.T. Quite so, so that we are free in the new order of things, in order to have part with Christ. It is a

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new order, because they were already clean to take the passover, which belonged to the old.

Ques. What does the water refer to which is spoken of in chapter 4?

J.T. That is quite different; in that instance it is a matter of drinking the water, and the water is connected with the Spirit there.

Ques. Is there instruction for us in the fact that the Lord lays aside His garments?

J.T. He laid aside His dignity for the moment in order to be a servant; we ought not to visit our brethren as though we are wearing a clerical robe. A clergyman would say, 'My flock', but a true servant says, "Ourselves your bondmen for Jesus' sake", 2 Corinthians 4:5. Rather than the gathering belonging to the pastor, it is he who belongs to them; as Paul remarked, "All things are yours. Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas ... all are yours", 1 Corinthians 3:21,22. It is right that servants should be honoured for their service, but in his attitude the servant serves all and serves in love.

Rem. That is why the Lord's example preceded His commandment.

J.T. The Lord states that He is their Master and Lord, yet He says, "I ... have washed your feet"; in laying aside His garments and in girding Himself with a towel, He is showing that He is washing their feet as a servant. How wonderful that the Saviour, the Son of God should take so humble a position; it accords with His love which led Him to death for us.

Rem. Such a service can only do good to our brethren.

J.T. The Lord's example has in view that we should be like Him in this service. He says elsewhere, "I am in the midst of you as the one that serves", (Luke 22:27) as though He were amongst His own in order to do all that needed doing; this would help all who serve to do so in love, and those who are served should honour them. So it seems to me that a state of mutuality is

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maintained, and the distinction that God has given to some is preserved.

Ques. Has feet washing a place at the Supper, or is it service that precedes it?

J.T. The one partaking of the Supper should examine himself, and prove himself in order that there may be nothing in him which is not in accord with what he is doing. Also what is presented in the Supper has the effect of detaching us from this world. Whilst there may be nothing which would keep me out of the new order of things, my spirit may need to be attracted there, and what the Supper presents is certainly calculated to have this effect upon me. No one can say he does not need it, for the Lord's remark to Peter implies that whatever I may think of myself, I need this service. If I am to have part in the assembly, in the new order of things, I need this service.

Ques. Is that the meaning of your previous remark regarding the preparing of the burnt offering?

J.T. The word 'preparation' is very appropriate here, for if I am to be in the assembly for the pleasure of God, I need this washing.

Ques. Does the Lord use His people for this service, or does He do it Himself?

J.T. I believe it is brought about as we serve one another, but it is the Lord doing it by means of the saints.

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THE HOLY SPIRIT AS PRESENTED IN JOHN'S GOSPEL (1)

John 1:29 - 34; John 3:6 - 12

J.T. It is in mind to look into these passages, and others as well, where the Holy Spirit is presented in types of substantial character, as well as in doctrinal. In this gospel the Lord is viewed particularly as a Teacher, and it is evident that His teaching is of the greatest importance. We need doctrine; "sound teaching", which is involved in the faith of which Jude speaks, "the faith once delivered to the saints", Jude 3. We are exhorted to cut "in a straight line the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15), and it is evident that the Scriptures are the basis of all doctrine. At the same time, in John's gospel, there is that presented to us in Christ which is substantial or tangible. In John 1:4 it states that "in him (the Word) was life", and in John's epistle we read, "That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes; that which we have contemplated, and our hands handled, concerning the word of life; (and the life has been manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and report to you the eternal life, which was with the Father, and has been manifested to us)", 1 John 1:1,2. This alludes to what could be seen substantially in Christ. In chapter 2 of John's epistle he says, "Again, I write a new commandment to you, which thing is true in him and in you"; thus this thought of what is tangible is carried forward to the saints, "which thing is true in him and in you", 1 John 2:8. So, in agreement with what we are saying, the truth relating to the Spirit is set out in a tangible way all through the gospel of John; firstly as a dove; then in chapter 3 as the wind; and as water in chapters 4 and 7; then as the Comforter in chapter 14, and as breath in chapter 20. All these are tangible thoughts, not theoretical.

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The Holy Spirit is often alluded to by us as though He is something we do not know how to speak of; yet we should be able to speak about the Spirit if we have received Him. Paul asked the twelve men at Ephesus in Acts 19:2: "Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye had believed?" indicating that they should have been able to answer at once if they had received Him. In connection with these remarks attention is drawn to the fact that John the baptist beheld the Spirit descending as a dove, and abiding on Jesus. It is evident that the dove is a type, but there is in it the idea of something tangible being presented, John having been able to see the dove. It is not said in the other gospels, that anyone else saw the dove except the Lord Himself, so that the fact that John the baptist says here that he saw it confirms what we are saying. John in his gospel is occupied with what is substantial in christianity, and in chapter 20:31 he says, that these things "are written that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life" -- something evident -- "in his name".

Rem. We have the teaching in these scriptures, but we ought to be marked by freshness. The Scriptures are living.

J.T. That is so. Clearly the word of God is living. What is in the saints is living by the power of the Spirit.

Ques. We must make a difference between the word that is living, and the letter which kills.

J.T. Just so.

Rem. Although it is outside of our subject, I should like to know what "on the morrow" means, referred to three times in this chapter?

J.T. It is a characteristic feature of John to speak thus of time, and has the effect of dividing an exercise into periods confirming what we have received. If I accept a thing today, and tomorrow I have not changed my mind, the matter is confirmed. For example, in

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verses 19 to 28 we are told that the Jews sent from Jerusalem priests and Levites to ask John who he was. They were inclined to think he was Elias, or a prophet or the Messiah, and he says, "I am not"; and on the morrow he still thought the same. Again in verses 29 to 34 John made a good confession, then again on the morrow he is true to his confession.

Ques. Do you think that he saw the Spirit descending from heaven as a dove the previous day and kept this blessed sight in his heart, so that he could make his confession on the morrow?

J.T. Yes, it had not diminished during the night, rather it was confirmed. In John's ministry the days are separated; then the ministry of Christ brings in the assembly and in chapter 2, the millennium.

Rem. The third day suggests the millennium?

J.T. Yes. Sometimes Scripture is very clearly brought forward and the saints enjoy it; but do they enjoy it the following day? We are tested as to how we receive the truth.

Ques. What is the difference between the Lamb of God, and the Son of God who baptises with the Spirit?

J.T. The Lamb of God suggests the thought of sacrifice, and evidently alludes to the types; He was here in view of sacrifice. He had come to die. The word 'Lamb' used here is a word expressive of maturity, it does not refer to a small lamb; it also suggests suffering; "Led as a lamb to the slaughter", Acts 8:32.

Rem. The expression, "Lamb of God" does not suggest that which is eternal.

J.T. It is the best expression giving the idea of sacrifice.

Ques. Will it be used during the millennium: "I saw... a Lamb standing, as slain"? Revelation 5:6.

J.T. I do not think it will be continued in the millennium, but it leads up to it. The Lamb's wife is spoken of, but all in relation to His sufferings. It is a touching expression bringing to mind the One who has

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suffered, whereas the expression, "Son of God" involves an eternal thought; it is not limited, and denotes that the Person referred to is a divine Person in human form; and He baptises with the Holy Spirit. As the Lamb He takes away the sin of the world which necessitates His sacrifice; as Son of God, He baptises with the Holy Spirit; He removes evil and brings in good.

Ques. What is to be understood by the fact that the Holy Spirit descended upon Him and abode upon Him?

J.T. There was nothing there to disturb, He abode upon Him. In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit is said to have come upon men such as David, Samson and Jephthah, but He did not abide upon them.

Rem. "Abiding" suggests the idea of restfulness.

J.T. There was nothing to disturb in this holy Person. This doubtless alludes to the dove that Noah sent out; an incident suggesting a beautiful thought. It says, "he sent out the dove from him". It does not say a dove, but the dove, drawing our attention to its characteristics. "But the dove found no resting-place for the sole of her foot", Genesis 8:9. Here, however, it finds a resting-place for its foot, that is to say, now God is finding rest in Christ. The other evangelists say about this moment: "There came a voice out of the heavens: Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I have found my delight". That is a precious thought, suggesting what God had found in a Man. We must understand that the Holy Spirit thus come is God; so all the fulness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell in this Person.

Rem. He abode upon Him, not in Him.

J.T. The Spirit is there in a permanent way. It is public testimony which is in view here. John saw it. David says in Psalm 51:11, "Take not the spirit of thy holiness from me". He felt how unworthy he was, but this could never be said of Jesus. The disciples did not receive the Spirit until Christ had been glorified, then the Spirit descended, appearing as "parted tongues,

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as of fire". We read in John 7:39, that "the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified"; and in chapter 14:17, the Lord speaking of the Comforter, says, "He abides with you, and shall be in you". The truth relating to the Spirit involves that He is not only to be on us, but in us for us to enjoy. In the case of the Lord, He descended upon Him, but it also says, that He was filled with the Spirit. The term on Him indicates more what is public, in testimony; in Him suggests the thought of joy and inward power. In regard of what is now in mind, the fact is, that John could see it; it was something tangible and substantial. He then tells us that he expected to see it; "He who sent me to baptise with water, he said to me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit. And I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God".

Ques. What importance do you attach to his having seen it?

J.T. It is in order that witness should be borne, as John says elsewhere, "That which we have seen and heard we report to you", 1 John 1:3. The Lord also told them, "Ye are witnesses". The word 'witness' has a double meaning; firstly, I may see what happens yet possibly say nothing about it; and secondly, I may be asked to say what I have seen. So they would not have been witnesses simply by having seen it. The apostle John says, "That which we have seen and heard we report to you". So we see the importance of what has preceded in the case of John the baptist, for he was sent in order to draw attention to the Lord Jesus. It was a matter of importance that he should be led to know the Lord in this way. He said, "I knew him not" although he was related to Him in the flesh, "but he who sent me to baptise with water, he said to me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy

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Spirit". So John the baptist was a qualified witness, and could say, "I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God".

Rem. You said this is connected with the fact that the fulness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell in Him.

J.T. Yes, it is a similar thought. The three Persons of the Godhead became known when Christ was baptised. The Lord Jesus was there, the Son of God; then the Father's voice declared that He is the Son of God; then the Holy Spirit descended upon Him.

Ques. Is it possible for anyone today to have visions that would make him a witness?

J.T. In what is before us it is more a question of faith. The apostles who inaugurated christianity saw the things, and since apostolic times, we take the place of those who believe. The Lord Himself said, "Blessed they who have not seen and have believed", John 20:29. In like manner the apostle Paul said, "I have believed, therefore have I spoken", 2 Corinthians 4:13. This makes room for the activity of the Spirit in us in order that we might have "the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the full knowledge of him", Ephesians 1:17. So the Lord asks the question, "Who do men say that I the Son of man am?" Matthew 16:13. Each of us has to reply to this.

Ques. Why does the Lord say "Son of man", while Peter confesses Him as "Son of God"?

J.T. That is the important point. He took the place of Son of man, but Son of God involves His personal relationship with God as a Man. In the gospels no one addresses Him as Son of man, but He calls Himself by that title about eighty times in the gospels: it is there His title especially as rejected by the Jews. He asks His disciples who they would say He was; but the title "Son of man" does not express what He is; so a revelation was necessary, and Peter received this of God.

Ques. Is the title Son of man only used in time?

J.T. He took it as rejected by Israel. It is a general

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thought implying that His influence would reach to the nations instead of being limited to Israel. It was a declaration to Israel that the Lord accepted His rejection and was taking up His service in relation to all men. The title Son of God remains. 1 Corinthians 15 clearly shows that He keeps the title of Son; the Son will be placed in subjection to the Father, for eternity. The title "Son of man" is taken from Psalm 8, from the book of Daniel; and above all from the book of Ezekiel. Ezekiel makes use of this term more frequently than all the other writers in the Bible, evidently because God was putting Israel aside, and the nation was in captivity in Babylon. Similarly the apostle Paul says that God is the God of the nations; the Jews having rejected Christ, Paul continued his ministry amongst the nations. We do not find that the apostles preached the Son of man, though Stephen, in his witness said, "Lo, I behold the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God", Acts 7:56. The writer of the epistle to the Hebrews quotes Psalm 8, and the Son of man is also referred to in the book of the Revelation. But the apostles did not preach the Son of man, they preached the Son of God. At least, the apostle Paul did, for it was an important feature of his preaching, involving another world coming into view. The Son abides in the house for ever; He inaugurates a new order of things and baptises with the Holy Spirit.

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THE HOLY SPIRIT AS PRESENTED IN JOHN'S GOSPEL (2)

John 3:6 - 11; John 4:13, 14; John 7:37,38

J.T. In choosing this subject, I desired that we might be occupied with the substantial character of christianity, the Spirit being presented in forms which suggest what is substantial. In chapter 1 John the baptist saw Him as a dove; he says, "I beheld the Spirit descending as a dove from heaven, and it abode upon him". In chapter 3, the Spirit is spoken of as wind which "blows where it will"; then in chapters 4 and 7 He is presented under the figure of water; in chapter 14, He is brought before us in a personal way as the Comforter; then in chapter 20, He is referred to in figure as breath. All these references remind us of something that is substantial, that can be felt and experienced by the believer. It is in mind to look at them not as features of doctrine; although clearly doctrine is very important and essential. Hence we see the Lord, especially in John's gospel, as the Teacher, but the substance itself existed before the doctrine had been formulated in writing, as in the gospels and epistles. This applies similarly to the Old Testament, for the Pentateuch was not written until long after the events related in Genesis, those things happening so long before are therefore of all importance. In this connection, another great feature of the ministry of John is brought out in chapter 1:4, "In him was life, and the life was the light of men", that is to say, light emanates from substance, namely life. Hence it says in the epistle of John, "That which was from the beginning" (1 John 1:1); that alludes to Christ personally, but it is the substance that was there. In the reading yesterday, we spoke of the Spirit descending in a bodily form as a dove, and

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we noticed how it says in John's gospel only, that John the baptist saw the Spirit as a dove, the thought of substance being found in this gospel.

Rem. The Spirit did not descend in this way on believers at Pentecost.

J.T. We were noticing yesterday that when the Spirit descended upon the Lord Jesus, it was in the form of a dove, and it abode upon Him, indicating that in Christ as Man there was nothing to hinder the Godhead being pleased to rest there. On the day of Pentecost the Spirit came as parted tongues, as of fire, and instead of the word 'abiding' it says, "sat upon" them. The Spirit sitting upon the saints at Pentecost seems to suggest that He would be there in a permanent way, which would be made possible by the presence of fire. The action of fire refers to the flesh in us, hindering its activity; otherwise the Spirit could not be with us. In connection with the Lord Jesus, needless to say, such action was in no way necessary, for He was Himself a divine Person, "holy, harmless, undefiled, separated from sinners" (Hebrews 7:26); there could be nothing in Him needing to be removed.

We were noticing yesterday that the three divine Persons are in evidence at the Lord's baptism. There was the Lord Jesus, already accredited as a divine Person at His birth; then the Holy Spirit descending in the form of a dove; the Person of the Holy Spirit was there, in the form of a dove, the thought conveyed by the dove having been already expressed in the time of Noah, indicating the tender sensitiveness of the Spirit. Thus we see there two divine Persons who have taken the lowly place of service on the earth, and finally there was the Father's voice. It does not say it was the Father's voice but the words indicate that it was the Father who spoke, saying, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight", Matthew 3:17. The three Persons are there in a most manifest way. So we are baptised "to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit", Matthew 28:19.

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Ques. Can it be said that the Lord Jesus received the Spirit?

J.T. It says that He descended upon Him in a bodily form.

Rem. Towards the end of the flood, the dove could not find a resting place in a scene of judgment.

J.T. That is what is alluded to here. He now finds a resting place upon this holy divine Person in human form.

Rem. The Spirit maintains the deity of Christ in incarnation in a remarkable way.

J.T. His individual personality is equally guarded; this personality became flesh. How the fulness of the Godhead was there is another matter to be looked into; but let us begin with the fact that one divine Person became flesh. We are speaking of the greatest possible things, and we shall be led aright as keeping to the Scriptures.

Ques. Does this correspond with 1 Timothy 3:16, "God ... manifested in flesh".

J.T. It is well to notice that it does not say there that God became flesh.

Rem. Although it is true that the fulness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell in this glorious Person, it is equally true that God was manifested in flesh.

J.T. We have concrete evidence concerning the Person who was there on earth. He was, first of all, the Object of John the baptist's testimony, then the Spirit descended from heaven as a dove and abode upon Him, and finally the voice of the Father says, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight". The thought is, that God was there.

Ques. Do we not get help from another gospel which says that the Lord saw the heavens opened?

J.T. Indeed, it amplifies what we are saying. It is said of no one except of the Lord Himself and of John the baptist that he saw the Spirit descending. John the baptist saw it, in order to bear witness to it. That is

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the substantial side of things, what has been seen. John says, "He who sent me to baptise with water, he said to me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit. And I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God", John 1:33,34. He clearly shows that it is a question of bearing witness to this substantial side. The Son of God is brought into view by the fact that he saw the Spirit descending in form of a dove and abiding on Him. There are two statements in the epistle to the Colossians bearing on this subject; the first in chapter 1:19, and the second in chapter 2:9. The first stresses the fact that He was great enough as a Man down here for the fulness of the Godhead to dwell in Him. In the second the fulness is there for our blessing, there bodily in order to be within our range.

Rem. It says "bodily" only in the second passage.

J.T. As emphasising the fact that He is there in nearness to us.

Ques. Will you say a few words on the meaning of the expression "the fulness of the Godhead" (Colossians 2:9)?

J.T. It is a very special expression, signifying that all that God is, is there. It not only alludes to His attributes, but He is present; deity is there.

Ques. Referring to chapter 2, would you say that nothing can be known of deity, apart from Christ?

J.T. That is the force of the passage; the saints need nothing more; all is there. The fact that the Godhead is there bodily implies that it is near to us. Passing on now to John 3 will give opportunity to take account of the substantial thought of power in the wind; it is a question of a sovereign act of the Spirit. "The wind blows where it will". It can be felt and heard, therefore it is real, substantial, and not just theory. The same applies to new birth, for it says, "that which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit".

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Ques. Do you connect chapter 3:8 with chapter 1:13?

J.T. In the latter passage it says, "who have been born ... of God" John 1:13; in the other it is a matter more of the initial side.

Rem. In both passages there is reference to the operation of divine sovereignty.

J.T. That is so, but the one who is born of the Spirit cannot yet be described as being one of the children of God, not having yet heard and believed the gospel. Chapter 1: 13 contemplates believers as being fully developed, in a perfect state, but here the Lord is teaching Nicodemus, showing him that new birth is the beginning.

Rem. New birth comes first, then the reception of the glad tidings.

J.T. Just so; then one can be spoken of as a person who has been born of God, a child of God in the fullest sense of the word; "to them gave he the right to be children of God, to those that believe on his name; who have been born, not of blood, nor of flesh's will, nor of man's will, but of God", John 1:12,13. That refers to believers; all those who have been brought under this powerful influence should be able to recall their soul history; a real change has taken place in them; they have new instincts; there is something in them that the Lord calls spirit which was not there before.

Ques. Can one be born of the Spirit without having received the Spirit?

J.T. Yes, certainly. There is no doubt that Nicodemus was born of the Spirit. The fact that he came to Jesus by night, and attributed the miracles to Him, showed that he already saw the kingdom of God.

Rem. We can call him a disciple; he followed Christ.

J.T. Yes, a secret disciple. In verse 14, reference is made to the serpent of brass and to the Son of man being lifted up, and in verse 16, to the gift of the only

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begotten Son. These verses bring out the gospel that is believed after new birth.

Rem. Those believing the gospel are those who are born of God.

J.T. If we pass on to chapter 4, we have, in water, another substantial view of the Spirit. Here it is a question of movement of the believer. In the descent of the Spirit upon Christ, and also in new birth, it is the action of the Spirit Himself, but in chapter 4 the believer appropriates the Spirit as something to be drunk, suggesting the appropriation of that which satisfies. These thoughts relate to what is substantial; if a believer has drunk in this sense of the water typifying the Spirit, he is conscious of having something substantial that satisfies him.

Ques. Is this rather similar to the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

J.T. In chapter 1 allusion is made to the baptism with the Holy Spirit which is the act of Christ, so it says in 1 Corinthians 12, "In the power of one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body". In this case it is the act of another; whilst drinking is our own act. It also says, we "have all been given to drink of one Spirit". In Corinthians it is a question of unity, but here it is something substantial, something I can drink and never thirst again.

Ques. What is to be understood by the remark, "If thou knewest the gift of God"?

J.T. I think it refers to the Spirit, and suggests the great general thought of giving; so we read, "Thanks be to God for his unspeakable free gift". In chapters 3 and 4 we are on the ground of what is given. In chapter 3, God gives His Son for us, and in chapter 4, He gives the Spirit. The thought is that we should be free if we know God; so in John 4:10, "If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that says to thee, Give me to drink, thou wouldest have asked of him". If we are in this sphere of light, we should be free to ask.

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Ques. Is it the same thought in Luke 11:13, "How much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him"?

J.T. Yes, why should we not ask? These conditions are such as would set us free to ask.

Ques. Would you say that the Holy Spirit coming upon the Lord Jesus inaugurated a new order of things, and this passage suggests the possibility of our entering into it?

J.T. It is based upon the work of Christ. After having spoken of new birth in chapter 3, the Lord presents the gospel. What we find here is that we are on the ground of what is given.

Rem. What is said in John 3:16 is giving as foundational.

J.T. Just so. "If thou knewest the gift of God" is for each of us; if we knew the One who came down so low in order to be near to us, we should be free to ask.

Rem. Everything comes through grace.

J.T. Yes, we can pray in the light of God intervening in Christ and giving.

Rem. "Thou wouldest have asked of him". Does that suggest prayer?

J.T. Yes, prayer in which you can experience liberty in mutuality; for He came so low in order that He might speak to us; to men.

Rem. Requests would not be made indiscriminately.

J.T. Two persons are alluded to: "If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that says to thee". This all indicates liberty in asking.

Rem. If we fully appreciated the gift of God, and the character of His gift, we should be encouraged to ask.

Rem. The woman of Samaria had an impression of the greatness of Jacob by his gift of a well.

J.T. In chapter 7, it is not a question of asking, but of drinking, "If any one thirst, let him come to me and drink". What is in view here is not the position of Christ on the earth, wearied and seated

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at the fountain, but of Christ glorified. It is expressly stated that "the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified", John 7:39.

Rem. In chapter 4, the water He gives is referred to as "springing up"; in chapter 7 it is said to flow out.

J.T. That is an important distinction. It "shall become in him a fountain of water, springing up into eternal life". This is a practical matter, for the springing up implies that my affections are active; it is a great power in a believer, setting him in movement, and making him look upward.

Ques. Would you say that chapter 4 refers to God's side of the matter, while in chapter 7 it is the thought of what is around us, of the rivers of water which shall flow?

J.T. That is so, but in each case what is to be seen is substantial. It speaks of water. In Genesis 2 we see that a river went out of Eden; that is a principle that is often found throughout the Scriptures.

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THE HOLY SPIRIT AS PRESENTED IN JOHN'S GOSPEL (3)

John 14:15 - 26; John 15:27

J.T. In the readings we have had we have been occupied with the Spirit descending upon Christ; then with His activity in new birth and the way in which a believer participates in Him; hence in chapters 3, 4 and 7, the Spirit is viewed in relation to the individual believer as born anew and drinking living water. In chapter 14, the Spirit is viewed in relation to the saints, as given in answer to the Lord's prayer for us. In chapter 15, we see that He is sent by the Son Himself. Our subject therefore is the Spirit viewed in this personal and blessed way, as the Comforter or Paraclete. This follows on from what we have had before us previously; we shall speak of the Spirit, not theoretically, but practically.

Rem. He is called "the Spirit of truth".

J.T. "He will give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, the Spirit of truth". The force of this word is that the Spirit is here in connection with the truth; in verse 6, the Lord speaks of Himself as the truth. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth, but in the epistle of John, He is said to be "the truth", an important side of the question, which should enter into a meeting such as this; not only are true things said, but the spirit of the things is true. There is special power in this, so when the Spirit has His place the truth is there, and it is brought out.

Ques. Does the term, "another Comforter", imply that the first was the Lord Himself?

J.T. Yes, it means that the Lord Jesus was down here alongside His own. The meaning of the expression involves His presence in this way with us at this moment. Jesus was such for His disciples; now ascended to

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heaven, He is our Advocate with the Father; He is engaged with what concerns us.

Ques. Why does it say, "the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified"? John 7:39

J.T. I suppose He is here as corresponding to the Man in heaven who glorified God on earth. The Lord Jesus said, "I have glorified thee on the earth"; then He asks the Father, saying, "glorify me ... along with thyself", John 17:4,5. Hence the Spirit is down here in response to the Lord's prayer in John 14. Chapter 7 refers to the public testimony of an individual believer. This testimony is rendered relative to Christ, not only as having been down here, as having died and been raised, but as having been glorified. Scripture makes a great point of Christ as He is now; the testimony of Christ is heavenly.

Rem. Referring to chapter 7:39, "The Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified", it has been said that that signifies that the believer does not receive the Spirit without knowing Christ glorified.

J.T. It does not say, 'He shall not receive the Spirit unless he understands that Christ is glorified'. The statement refers to the present dispensation as a consequence of the glorification of Christ. "But this he said concerning the Spirit, which they that believed on him were about to receive", John 7:39. It does not say that they believed in Him glorified. I fear that none of us would have received the Spirit, if we had had to wait until we understood that Christ is glorified. God gives the Spirit sovereignly to each believer.

Ques. To what do the words, "having believed" in Ephesians 1:13, refer?

J.T. It relates to a state of soul. "In whom also, having believed, ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise". God does that following a state of faith in the soul.

Rem. The Spirit is received on believing the gospel.

J.T. "Having believed, ye have been sealed"; this

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is a statement of fact. It does not imply that a believer receives or ought to receive the Spirit automatically on believing. God gives the Spirit, but He gives Him in relation to a state resulting from a person having faith. It alludes to Acts 19:2: "Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye had believed?" They had believed but had not received the Spirit nor even heard if the Holy Spirit was come.

Ques. Does that mean that they had not received the Spirit?

J.T. They had not; yet they had some measure of faith. It is often assumed that a believer receives the Spirit automatically when he believes; but there is no such guarantee in the Scriptures, for these twelve men at Ephesus had not received the Spirit, and yet, in a sense, they were believers. One would say that they had not believed a complete gospel. It is said that "when they heard that, they were baptised to the name of the Lord Jesus. And Paul having laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them", Acts 19:5,6. They were not really sealed; but having believed, Paul then laid his hands on them. There were also those at Samaria who had been converted through Philip. He had announced the glad tidings concerning the name of Jesus Christ, and there was great joy in that city, but they had not yet received the Spirit (Acts 8:14 - 16).

Rem. Those in the house of Cornelius received the Spirit while Peter was yet speaking.

J.T. That indicates the liberty that is exercised in giving the Spirit; it cannot be a thing that is effected automatically.

Ques. How would you help someone in uncertainty, wondering if they have the Spirit or not?

J.T. I would tell such a one that the present time is one of giving; God gives the Spirit; so why not ask Him for the Spirit. "How much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him", Luke 11:13.

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Ques. What do you think about the laying on of hands, in relation to the present time?

J.T. There is nobody at the present time who can represent the Lord in this. It was a question of representing the Lord, which was done by the apostles. It was the way the testimony, such as had been rendered in Samaria, was completed, by the laying on of the hands of the apostles.

Rem. It was power or authority coming directly from Christ, given to the apostles, but who do not exist today.

J.T. We might now consider verse 18 and the following verses, as showing the consequence of the presence down here of the Holy Spirit. Having spoken of the Spirit who would be in them, the Lord said, "I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you". That is to say, that the Spirit would be the means by which He would come; the Lord was not suggesting that He would come to them corporeally; yet He would come.

Ques. Is there a difference between this thought, and that in Matthew 18:20, "For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them"?

J.T. That agrees with Matthew's gospel, which does not speak of the ascension: "I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age", Matthew 28:20. This indicates the constant presence of the Lord down here. In John the Spirit is the intermediary in all this, John having before him a certain aspect of the truth. The Lord's presence is here by virtue of the fact that the Spirit is here. John has a particular way of speaking of the Lord coming to us; in John 14:18 - 20, normal conditions existed, as in the early times after the Spirit was given; whilst verses 21 to 23 relate to a period coming afterwards, when He would manifest Himself to an individual believer who kept His commandments. They have by extension an important bearing

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upon the present time. If a few believers in this locality keep Christ's commandments, He will not fail to manifest Himself to them.

Ques. Does this correspond with the thought of the overcomer in Revelation 2 and 3?

J.T. Actually an overcomer is one who keeps the Lord's commandments, and to whom the Lord manifests Himself. "He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me". If anyone says he loves Christ, he proves it by keeping His commandments, even as the one who does not keep them shows that he does not love Christ. "If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him", John 14:23. In verse 21, the one who loves Christ keeps His commandments, in verse 23, he keeps His word. To keep His commandments seems to suggest that one abstains from everything that is contrary to His commandments and answers to the claims of the Lord; to keep His word is a deeper, more inward matter, conveying the thought that there are tabernacle conditions enabling the Father and the Son to come and make their abode in the one who keeps His word; marvellous fact, available to one person. Here we have the Father and the Son entering into my circumstances, because they afford tabernacle conditions. If I keep the word of Jesus, this abiding is made possible.

Rem. It was so when the three men came to Abraham.

J.T. Exactly; the desired conditions existed. Jehovah had spoken with Abraham, and it says, "He left off talking with him", Genesis 17:22. He broke off the conversation, having commanded Abraham to circumcise every male in his house, which he did immediately; he kept the commandment of Jehovah, whom he loved. Then he sat at the tent door in the heat of the day, a pilgrim position; the conditions where he was by the oaks of Mamre, were suitable for a divine visitation, so

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that three men came to him. That is quite in line with what we have here.

Ques. Is there a difference between, "I am coming to you" and "I ... will manifest myself to him"?

J.T. "I am coming to you" suggests what is collective, at the beginning of christianity; but after the failure of the church in early times, everything depends upon His commandments being kept. That is why the Lord says, "If any one", not all the company. It is therefore well for us to look for this in our local meetings, that we keep the Lord's commandments as those who love Him; we shall find that He will manifest Himself to us.

Ques. What do you think about the last verse of Matthew's gospel, "I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age"? Matthew 28:20

J.T. Matthew does not record the ascension; he stresses more the fact that the Lord would be with His own. He does not deny the ascension, but he does not mention it, in order to stress another point. The Lord is with us, because the Spirit is down here. He is here by the Spirit, not corporeally; but He is none the less here, and in a greater way than if He were here corporeally. "For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them", Matthew 18:20. Matthew does not speak of His coming but of the continuation of Christ down here. John says that He comes; how attractive is the thought of His coming!

Ques. Does He come on special occasions?

J.T. That raises a question, the answer to which will be known by the experience that each will have individually. I think that when saints are together, keeping His commandments and answering to His desire in breaking bread, He will come into their midst. If we are remembering Him at the Supper, it would be a suitable moment for Him to come.

Ques. Do we reach this in John 20?

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J.T. We have a fuller thought there which corresponds with verses 18, 19 and 20. In John 20, no conditions are spoken of except that the disciples were there, and the doors were shut; He came there, where the disciples were, and this corresponds to verses 18, 19 and 20. In verse 21 a subsequent period is in view, when His commandments would be neglected; the Lord so values one who keeps His commandments, that He manifests Himself to him.

Ques. Can it be said that He seeks every possible opportunity to come thus?

J.T. The doors being shut are an indication of suitable conditions. Nothing is said about what the disciples were saying; it is a matter of what they were to Him. In Luke 24:34, they were saying, "The Lord is indeed risen and has appeared to Simon"; that is, they were speaking of the resurrection of Christ. Grace marks the new order of things; He appears to a man who had denied Him; grace characterises the moment. Those who had returned from Emmaus were relating how the Lord was made known to them in the breaking of bread, and Jesus "himself stood in their midst" (Luke 24:36), thus honouring what they were saying. But in John it is not so, it is more a question of what we are, "where the disciples were", it is this which constitutes an invitation to Him to come.

Ques. Are there not two thoughts: "I am coming to you", that is to the company; and "I ... will manifest myself to him", that is to an individual?

J.T. Yes, the fact that it is said of a single individual is in view of a state of departure, and is calculated to strengthen each of these persons, making them overcomers.

Rem. It is a characteristic company here, and the statement, "I am coming to you" would apply if what corresponds to the assembly is reached: then He will come.

J.T. I think that is right. In chapter 15:26, there

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is another thing, "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send to you from the Father ... he shall bear witness concerning me". It is evident that this applied directly to the disciples, but because of the way it is placed in the chapter, I believe it has in view the last days also, when we have need of teaching about all things, and need reminding of what the Lord has said, because it has been forgotten.

Ques. Do you mean that the Spirit would bring to our notice all the details of Scripture?

J.T. So many things have been forgotten! The readings and addresses that the Lord is giving us at this moment provide an opportunity for the Spirit to bring out things that have been there all the time; none of the words of Jesus can be lost, hence the importance of such meetings. Brethren coming together in dependence on the Lord give the Comforter such an opportunity. He is here in the name of Christ, teaching us all things, and bringing to our remembrance all the things that the Lord has said to us.

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THE HOLY SPIRIT AS PRESENTED IN JOHN'S GOSPEL (4)

John 15:25 - 27; John 16:1 - 15

J.T. We were saying yesterday evening at Valence, that the Holy Spirit as the Comforter is viewed as with the saints collectively, in chapter 14. In chapters 3, 4 and 7, the Spirit is seen in relation to individual believers; but now, as the Comforter, He is with us collectively. In chapter 14, it is what He is for the saints; whereas in chapter 15 He is connected with testimony; "he shall bear witness concerning me"; and in chapter 16, connected with conflict. So this subject is presented under three headings: firstly, what He is for the saints; secondly, what He is in the setting forth of the testimony; and thirdly, what He is in conflict.

Ques. Would you say we begin by apprehending what He is for us?

J.T. Yes, certainly. We have to experience what He is for us, before we can be with Him in testimony and conflict. We were seeing yesterday evening that He will be with the saints as another Comforter. The Lord Jesus was the Comforter when He was down here, but He was about to leave them, so the Spirit would be another Comforter during His absence. By virtue of the presence of the Spirit here as Comforter the Lord will come to us, to His own, to His disciples. It then says, "He shall teach you all things, and will bring to your remembrance all the things which I have said to you", John 14:26. So chapter 14 teaches us what He is for us, and as was said yesterday evening, verse 26 has a special bearing on these last days; in assembly history many things have been forgotten, hence the importance that He should bring all these things to our remembrance.

Ques. Why is He called the Holy Spirit in verse 26?

J.T. You mean He is not called the Holy Spirit

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earlier in the chapter, but is referred to as the Spirit of truth? What is contemplated in verse 26 is what we have already touched, that is, that during the history of the assembly many defiling things have entered, and I believe it is because of this defilement that we find the expression used in this verse. The temple of God is holy, and according to 1 Corinthians 3, it has been corrupted; in view of this it does not seem strange that the appellation 'Holy Spirit' is used. The Holy Spirit will "teach you all things, and will bring to your remembrance all the things which I have said to you". The holy things taught by the apostles were corrupted by the defiled mind of man, and the Holy Spirit is now occupied in recovering them for us. It says, "all things" and then, "all the things which I have said to you". Divisions have taken place in the history of the church; in each division certain parts of the truth have been pressed, whilst other parts have been neglected; hence the expression, "all the things", repeated here, is important. There are some who say that certain things are not essential to the truth; but everything in the truth is essential.

Rem. There are two thoughts; the Spirit "shall teach" and "bring to your remembrance".

J.T. Yes, teaching is in view of making the truth penetrate our souls by means of gift, the Holy Spirit fitting persons to teach the saints. Then He brings to our remembrance the things the Lord has said, implying that they may be forgotten.

Rem. In the letter to Philadelphia, the Lord presents Himself as the holy and the true.

J.T. Yes, and He says, "Thou hast kept the word of my patience" (Revelation 3:10), that is to say, the things had not been forgotten. The thought of remembrance is linked with the Supper, where the object is to remember the Lord Jesus; and if we remember Him, we must recall what He has said, and the Holy Spirit helps us in this. We all know how poor our minds are, and how easily we forget

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things, so it is an encouragement to see how the Spirit recalls what we have known, but have forgotten; so chapter 14 is very encouraging, showing what the Spirit is for us.

Ques. What is meant when it says of the Spirit, ''that he may be with you for ever''?

J.T. Is it not an encouragement to think that He will never leave us? The Lord Jesus has gone away; the apostles are no longer here; brothers who were leaders have been likewise removed, one after another. All that causes sorrow; but the Spirit abides with us for ever, so John speaks in Revelation of the Spirit and the bride saying "Come" to Jesus.

Ques. What do you understand by the expression "for ever"?

J.T. The thing continues, it has no end. If it says that the Spirit will be with us for ever, it implies that others go, but He never goes away. We have the blessed Comforter with us till the end of the assembly's sojourn down here. That should encourage us, and the proof of it is seen in that things are constantly called to our remembrance. Honoured men in earlier times have served the Lord in ministry; others have followed, and the Holy Spirit uses them as well.

Rem. I suppose it could hardly be said that these are new revelations, but that He shows things in divine light; they were there, but had been forgotten.

J.T. Just so; however, in the letters to the seven assemblies, even to Laodicea, the last, it is said, "He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies", Revelation 3:22. It is a matter of "what the Spirit says". It may be that He presses certain parts of the truth that have been forgotten, or foreseeing certain conditions which have not yet arisen. He uses the truth to enable saints to meet them. For instance, when Peter, referring to John, asked, "What of this man?" the Lord replied, "If I will that he abide until I come, what is that to thee?" John 21:22. They then thought that the Lord

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meant that he would not die, but "Jesus did not say to him, He does not die", but the thought remains that something is left for the saints right up to the Lord's coming. John abiding until the Lord comes suggests that, when He comes, there will be those dwelling here till then, and to that moment there will be provision for the saints in all that the Spirit provides. Thus the Lord says in Matthew, "I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age", Matthew 28:20. The Lord Himself is with us until that time, not corporeally, nor is He here in Person, but we have His presence in the Spirit.

This truly is very encouraging and strengthening, so we ought not to give up, for the Holy Spirit is with us. At the end of chapter 15, we see that the Comforter is sent by the Lord Himself; "whom I will send to you from (with) the Father". This is to encourage us. The divine conditions are expressed in terms intelligible to us; that is the reason why it says the Spirit will be sent from with, it expresses thoughts we may understand. The Holy Spirit has been with the Father, alongside Him, so that He is fully conversant with His thoughts concerning Jesus; "He shall bear witness concerning me"; emphasis being on the word "He".

Ques. In chapter 14, the Father is said to send the Spirit, while in chapter 15, the Lord Himself sends Him. What are we to learn from this?

J.T. It is something to be noted. In chapter 14:26, the Father sends Him in the name of the Son; here it says, "whom I will send to you from the Father". The three divine Persons are remarkably linked in these instructions. These chapters 13 to 17 lead us into the circle of divine Persons, and into what goes on there. In these two verses we have the statement that the Spirit having come, He would bear witness, then that the twelve apostles themselves would bear witness. "And ye too bear witness, because ye are with me from the beginning". The Spirit would bear witness as having been with the Father, as knowing perfectly the

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Father's thoughts about Christ; the apostles also would be able to bear witness of Him. By the Spirit bearing witness, I understand that He would make use of other persons than the apostles, such as Stephen, Philip and particularly the apostle Paul; Barnabas too, and many others could be mentioned up till the present moment. "Ye too bear witness, because ye are with me from the beginning" is connected more with apostolic testimony, which is based on the fact that certain ones were with the Lord during His ministry here.

Ques. As there were two divine Persons concerned in the gift of the Spirit, does it imply complete harmony of thought between them?

J.T. Yes, between the Father and the Son.

Ques. Does the expression "from the beginning" link on with chapter 1, to the time when the Spirit descended upon the Lord?

J.T. That is how I understand it. After the Spirit came upon the Lord Jesus at the time of His baptism, He was led by the Spirit in the wilderness forty days, tempted of the devil, according to Luke's account. Then He is seen in testimony and preaching, and then He gathers His disciples. So I understand that they were with Him from that time. When an apostle had to be chosen in place of Judas, it had to be someone who had been with Christ from the beginning. Luke speaks of them as having been "eyewitnesses of and attendants on the Word", Luke 1:2.

Ques. Is the expression "from the beginning" in verse 2, the same beginning that John speaks of in his first epistle?

J.T. Yes, it says there, "That which was from the beginning"; John is speaking of what they had seen. He says, "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, (and we have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only begotten with a father)", John 1:14. Their attention was drawn to Him and they contemplated Him so that they are able to speak of Him as bearing witness of Him.

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Ques. Have we the apostles' witness in the Scriptures, and the witness of the Spirit more in spiritual ministry?

J.T. The ministry of the apostles is set out in the Scriptures so that we can understand what it was, but we have only a very small part of it. We have, for instance, the Spirit's ministry in connection with Stephen, who is a good illustration, then Philip, and above all, the ministry of the apostle Paul. It must be remembered, however, that while the apostles who accompanied the Lord are viewed here by themselves, they ministered in the power of the Spirit; but they have a distinct place as having been with the Lord from the beginning of His ministry, and were specially qualified to represent Him authoritatively. The apostle John says, "That which we have seen and heard we report to you, that ye also may have fellowship with us; and our fellowship is indeed with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ", 1 John 1:3. They had therefore a particular place in the testimony as a result of that fellowship.

Ques. Do we find the Spirit's witness in chapter 5 in John's first epistle?

J.T. Yes, that is important. "They that bear witness are three: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood", there the apostles are not included. It says, "This is he that came by water and blood", and "it is the Spirit that bears witness", 1 John 5:6 - 8. We conclude from this that the witness of the Spirit continues right through the dispensation.

Chapter 16 is what has been termed a battlefield, and presents the Spirit in this setting. The Lord said, "These things I have spoken unto you that ye may not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues; but the hour is coming that every one who kills you will think to render service to God", then He continues, "but I have spoken these things to you, that when their hour shall have come, ye may remember them, that I have said them unto you ... but I say the truth to you,

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it is profitable for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you". Then from verses 8 to 11 we see the great result of the presence of the Spirit down here in the conflict. The world is manifestly exposed to anyone having eyes to see. It is a great advantage for a general conducting a battle, if he is fully informed of the position and circumstances of the opposing army. This is what the Spirit has done; He has exposed everything before our eyes; conviction or demonstration implies that everything there is exposed; sin, righteousness and judgment. "He will bring demonstration to the world, of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe on me; of righteousness, because I go away to my Father, and ye behold me no longer; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged" .

Rem. It is not that the world is convicted, but the thing is demonstrated.

Ques. Who is the ruler of this world referred to here?

J.T. Satan.

Ques. Is it the same as "the lawless one" in 2 Thessalonians 2:8?

J.T. That is the man of sin. In the Revelation, three persons are referred to,: the dragon which is Satan, the beast and the second beast; there is thus a trinity of evil. Satan is the dragon, the Lord Himself refers to him as the ruler of the world also in John 14:30.

Ques. Is it of the Spirit that it says, "there is he who restrains", 2 Thessalonians 2:7?

J.T. Yes, there is "he who restrains" (verse 7), and "that which restrains" (verse 6). It is a matter of the Spirit, but there are other things which hinder the revelation of the man of sin.

These verses indicate what the Spirit has demonstrated. Christ has been rejected ignominiously and nailed to the cross, whilst these men were known as His disciples. God was about to declare, so to speak,

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whether He approved of Christ, or whether the Jews were right; and He did so publicly when the Spirit came down at Pentecost. The action of the Spirit at Pentecost brought to light all these things; sin has been exposed, the Jews and whoever had eyes to see were convicted. In this first preaching, Peter charged the Jews with the murder of Christ; "ye, by the hand of lawless men, have crucified and slain", Acts 2:23. Peter declared that in such power, that nobody having a conscience could fail to be convicted. He then told them that "God has made him, this Jesus whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36) in heaven; that is righteousness. Then the ruler of this world is judged; it is now only a matter of time before he will be cast into the lake of fire for ever. If we understand this, if we grasp the great demonstration the Spirit has made, we shall be conscious of victory. What has taken place during the last 1900 years does not alter at all what was done previously.

Ques. What period of time is referred to in verse 5; "I go to him that has sent me"?

J.T. That refers to the Lord as sent by the Father.

Rem. He was not exactly sent from heaven; but being here, He was sent to serve in ministry.

J.T. Yes, "him whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world" -- sanctified, then sent. The Lord refers to His disciples in the same way as having been sent into the world for witness. The thought of being sent is after the Lord Jesus became Man and took a bondman's form. Jehovah said elsewhere to Isaiah, "Whom shall I send", and he replied, "Here am I, send me", Isaiah 6:8. That is seen perfectly in Jesus as a Man down here. Compare also Isaiah 42.

Ques. What difference is there between "sanctified" and "sent" as connected with the Lord?

J.T. "Sanctified" in this sense means that He was set apart for the object referred to, and He was committed to it. "Sent" would suggest that He was under

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the orders of another. The word 'sent' has a great place in this gospel.

Ques. Do the two words refer to different times, or to the same time?

J.T. They are two consecutive thoughts; firstly sanctification, then He is sent.

Ques. Is it as a divine Person He says, "I come"; then having come, He is sanctified and sent?

J.T. Yes, "Coming into the world", Hebrews 10:5. It was His own act, but as Man He is in a position of obedience.

Ques. Would you say that the Spirit came of His own accord?

J.T. Yes, it says that He descended upon Christ, but in the Son become Man, and taking a bondman's form, the Spirit came into these conditions and in that connection, is said to be sent from heaven.

We have now other great matters here in verse 13: "But when he is come, the Spirit of truth, he shall guide you into all the truth". Not only does He present the truth to us, but guides us into it. The presence of the Spirit here is a very important matter; to be guided into all the truth involves His influence upon us and with us.

Ques. What is meant by "all the truth"?

J.T. Nothing is omitted. We have spoken of the Spirit in relation to "all things" and to "all the things which I have said to you", consequently we can never think that any truth is not essential. That bears upon the idea of denominations; each denomination presses a certain side of the truth, or else perverts it in view of defending its own views; whilst those who recognise the assembly as the temple of God want all the truth and the Holy Spirit makes it known to us. I remember once having a conversation with a distinguished preacher who was on independent and so-called open ground. I spoke to him of fellowship and he replied, 'I know the truth is there, but I will not touch it'. He was not

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ready to accept all the truth. I think that is what is in mind here. If I am in a position where room is not made for all the truth, I have to leave it.

There is another beautiful thought in verse 13: "He shall not speak from himself; but whatsoever he shall hear he shall speak; and he will announce to you what is coming". This suggests the humble place the Spirit has taken as hearing and announcing things. Then we read, "He shall glorify me", so that any teaching, or system, which has not Christ as Object and Centre, is not of the Spirit. What has been termed orthodox for 1600 years has cast a shadow on the Person of Christ. Those maintaining so-called orthodoxy have made out that Christ was Son in the Deity. Sonship suggests inferiority. That is not glorifying Him; He is equal with the Father, and to insist on this, is to glorify Christ; those who refuse this truth are not glorifying Him.

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THE HOLY SPIRIT AS PRESENTED IN JOHN'S GOSPEL (5)

John 20:19 - 23; Revelation 22:16 - 21

J.T. We shall remember that the object of these readings in the gospel of John is to bring before us the positive side of christianity, and the reference to the Spirit in John 20 links on with what we have already considered. The Holy Spirit there is presented as breath; the Lord "breathed into them, and says to them, Receive the Holy Spirit". We noticed how the Spirit descended as a dove, a substantial thing; then He is spoken of as wind, suggesting what can be heard and felt, which is equally real; then as water, and as the Comforter. All these types or titles involve something substantial and practical, as distinct from doctrine. Here we have breath, which is similar to the wind in chapter 3, but obviously suggesting a more precious thought, for the act of breathing "into them" suggests intimacy. What the disciples now had in them was the breath of Christ; they would live in His life, and His Spirit must set them in movement.

Ques. Does this breathing correspond to what Jehovah breathed into Adam, when man became a living soul?

J.T. Yes; however, that was simply that Adam might live as a man or as a creature, in the sense that he received his spirit or vital existence from God. By the breath of God he became a living soul in contrast with animals, which are also living souls, but not by the breath of God. Life is in them, but Ecclesiastes says that their spirit goes "downwards to the earth" (Ecclesiastes 3:21), while the spirit of man returns "unto God who gave it", Ecclesiastes 12:7. It also says in Proverbs that, "Man's spirit is the lamp of Jehovah" (Proverbs 20:27), showing how God intervenes in relation to man's conscience. Here it is a question of the breath of the last Adam, who is said to be a quickening

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spirit, we are therefore rendered capable of living in His life.

Ques. What is the difference between the breath of the last Adam, and the Holy Spirit coming upon the apostles?

Rem. I was going to ask the same question, noticing that on the day of Pentecost there came suddenly a sound out of heaven of a violent impetuous blowing.

J.T. In John, it is the life of Christ. The life we have is not only that of the risen Man, but the life of the ascended Man. Before coming into the midst of His disciples, He sent them a message, "I ascend to my Father, and your Father", John 20:17. It is the breath of the Man who ascended. This is a pattern of what took place at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came down. It says of that day, that "there appeared to them parted tongues, as of fire, and it sat upon each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit". What appeared at Pentecost shows that there had to be displacement to make room for the Spirit. "There came suddenly a sound out of heaven as of a violent impetuous blowing, and filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them parted tongues, as of fire, and it sat upon each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit" Acts 2:2 - 4. These were evidences of power; the violent wind and the fire seem to set the flesh aside; the parted tongues would indicate that the testimony would be presented in every language. This result was seen effectively: "They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave to them to speak forth". The violent and impetuous wind was a symbol of power, while the fire purifies, and the tongues enabled them to express themselves. The testimony was to be preached to all nations; the tongues alluding to what happened in the land of Shinar where God confounded the language of the whole earth. That was now to be overcome. What the Lord did in John 20 seems to show the intimate

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relations existing between Him and His disciples in the testimony; they must have His Spirit. He does not say, 'Receive my breath', but "Receive Holy Spirit" (without the article). It is the same character of things in Acts 2:4, "Filled with [the] Holy Spirit", but when they began to speak it says, "the Spirit", the article is there (verse 4).

Ques. Is it just to say that in John 20 we have an application of what took place in Acts?

J.T. Yes it is special; in John we have simply a pattern; the thing itself took place when the Lord had been glorified. Before that time, "the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified" (John 7:39), so John 20 gives us a pattern of a particular feature of what was about to happen. Although He had not yet gone into heaven, He sends them a message, saying, "I ascend"; that is to say, that the thought of ascension preceded the moment when He breathed into His disciples.

Rem. The Lord Jesus Himself had told them that they would be baptised with the Holy Spirit after now not many days.

J.T. They had to wait in the city until they were. This statement in John 20 is in view of bringing out the relationship existing between these persons and the Lord, that they were His brethren, the brethren of the One who was ascending to "my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God". In addition to sending this message by Mary of Magdala, the Lord Himself came; the importance He attaches to them is clearly seen; He came to where His disciples were. It was the first day of the week, a new beginning. The testimony was to be presented by these great persons, and they were to receive His Spirit, the Holy Spirit, showing the confidence He had in them. It was a new and blessed thought that the Lord can trust us as having His Spirit. "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them; whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained"; moreover He says, "As the Father sent me

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forth, I also send you". The fact of correspondence with Him thus is striking, and shows what christianity was at the beginning, what these men were like, not just what they were going to preach or to teach, but what they were.

Ques. What is the meaning of the passage, "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them"?

J.T. I think it has in view the last days when we have to come in contact with brethren in different sects, who are held responsible for the sins of that sect to which they belong; or it may also be that they are personally guilty. If we contact such with a view to helping them, the Lord would say to us in so many words, 'Do not overwhelm them by charging them with sin'. If they are exercised men or women, you can rest assured that they will judge the sin, and, of course, you will help them to judge their sins, for sin it is even if they are ignorant of it, and the Lord gives us liberty to forgive it in order that they may be in fellowship with us. I think it can be understood in this way. On the other hand, there may be those who have walked in the truth, yet who have got away from it, such as those who have been involved in division; we may find, perhaps, that their sins should remain; so the Lord declares that, whether we remit or retain their sins, He confirms what we do.

Ques. Is that why they received the Holy Spirit?

J.T. I think so; so that we should act in holiness in such cases.

Ques. What is meant in the passage, "As the Father sent me forth, I also send you"?

J.T. It shows how, in their place in the testimony, they were to be in correspondence to the position of Christ. No christian could take this place today; it is specially apostolic. Yet here they are not called apostles; in a sense they were greater than that as Christ's brethren. He speaks of them as having been with Him from the beginning, so they were specially qualified.

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In his epistle John says, "Our fellowship is indeed with the Father", 1 John 1:3. The Spirit of Christ is called Holy Spirit, I think, being in His place down here. The Father had put all things into the hands of Christ, indicating that He had complete confidence in Him. Here the Lord puts certain things into the hands of the disciples, because He had confidence in them. Can the Lord have confidence in me? Could He entrust something to me?

Ques. Before He breathed into them and sent them, the Lord showed them His hands and His side. Is this similar to what is said in Song of Songs 2:6, "His left hand is under my head, and his right hand doth embrace me"?

J.T. His hands signify more than the support of our head, they denote what He has done for us; His side denotes His love for us. Evidently He will continue to undertake for us. If His right hand embraces us, and His left hand supports us, it indicates that on the one hand, there is support for our mind, and on the other for our affections. But here there is more than that; His hands and His side are reminders of what He has done, and of the greatness of His love.

In closing, we might refer to the verses read in the Revelation, which are in line with what we are saying, suggesting something substantial and practical. Not only we may take the water of life, but it must be taken; it is there. It is not just a question of light but of something tangible, something we take; not even something we drink, but what is taken.

Ques. In the sense of appropriating it?

J.T. Just so. "Let him that is athirst come; he that will, let him take the water of life freely". He that is athirst, and he that will, may take it, showing how liberal is the provision. But what we notice in this is the announcement of the Lord's coming in verse 20; He says, "Yea, I come quickly", but in verse 16, He announces Himself, "I am the root and offspring of

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David, the bright and morning star". There is nothing more interesting in the Revelation than seeing David introduced there; this bearing on the last days. This typifies Christ as Head, and the great service of song carried on in the most skilful way.

Rem. There are two thoughts, "Root" and "Offspring".

J.T. The root suggests His deity, in keeping rather with the gospel of John; the offspring refers to His royal rights as in Matthew.

Ques. Is it connected with His genealogy?

J;T. Yes, Matthew is the book of the generation of Jesus Christ, Son of David, Son of Abraham; while at the beginning of the gospel by John we read, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God", John 1:1. It is a question of His deity, the root of David. The Lord, therefore, asks a question of His opposers in the gospel, "How do they say that the Christ is David's son ... David therefore calls him Lord, and how is he his son?" (Luke 20:41 - 44)

Ques. Does the title "morning star" suggest another thought?

J.T. Yes, it is the beginning of the millennium which is announced by the "bright and morning star". We are here and the Lord is saying that He is coming quickly.

Ques. Is the Spirit working to produce this response from the church?

J.T. You can see how the thing is brought about today. The Spirit is working to bring the assembly, or at least a part of it, into accord with Himself, so that on Christ presenting Himself, the assembly says with the Spirit, "Come".

Rem. We are privileged to know Him now as the bright and morning star.

J.T. Just so; that is the important point. He is known thus before the day breaks. Those who are

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asleep during the night do not see the star; those who love the Lord watch and see it.

Ques. Is the star connected with the church, and the sun more with the kingdom?

J.T. The sun rules the day universally. The thought of the star is that it announces the day; you see it and know that day is near. Those seeing it, long for it and say, "Come".

Ques. With reference to the formation now by the Spirit, who will lead us to say, "Come", is it not good to be able to say always, "It has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us ..." (Acts 15:28)?

J.T. It is of importance for us to be in accord with the Spirit. It is not only what He does in us, or for us, but He glorifies Christ and we are thus brought into harmony with the Spirit, so that "The Spirit and the bride say, Come". It is not the Spirit with the bride, but the Spirit and the bride, the two together; the Spirit is saying it and the bride is saying it too.

Rem. We should be jealously concerned to maintain the rights of Christ in a scene where He is completely unknown.

J.T. Yes, if we are in the current of the Holy Spirit's activities, we are drawn to His side.

Rem. The thought that the whole universe will be subjected to Christ is very precious to those who love Him.

J.T. The Spirit is here as "another Comforter"; we come gradually to know His mind as being drawn to Him.

Before closing, I should like the brethren to understand clearly the thought in connection with David. The Lord announces Himself as "the root and offspring of David". As we were remarking, David represents headship, and Christ is Head to the assembly. The wisdom which is seen in the assembly, according to the epistle to the Ephesians, comes from Christ as Head. David was a skilful man and an excellent musician in

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view of the service of God, so we can understand why he brings Solomon on the throne with himself. When the service of God was inaugurated, sonship as seen in Solomon was introduced by David in a special way. In this connection, we have the division of the Levites; they numbered thirty-eight thousand in the time of David, and were divided according to the principle of the number twenty-four. What is remarkable is that there were four thousand singers, and four thousand doorkeepers, as if the singing had to be protected from any intrusion. The doorkeepers would prevent anything entering which would hinder the service, such as human innovations. We have to understand all this before we can grasp what the Lord means, in referring to David here. He was the root and offspring of David, the Lord suggesting in this that He had in mind the last days of the assembly's sojourn here, and is drawing our attention to what He is seeking amongst us, namely, intelligence in service and in worship. When we assemble for the service of God, we should be under the control of Christ as Head, in order that nothing natural or sentimental should creep into the service, but that all should be according to His own example and instruction. For example, He lifted up His eyes on high, saying, "I praise thee, Father, Lord of the heaven and of the earth", Matthew 11:25. He thus indicates to us how to serve God and worship Him.

Ques. Is that why reference is made to David in the letter to Philadelphia?

J.T. It is the same thought; He shuts and no one can open; He opens and no one can shut. Hence, "the Spirit and the bride say, Come", a touching expression, showing how the Spirit seeks to draw us to Himself, so that we may be ready to welcome the Lord Jesus, and to hail the glorious day of His appearing.

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THE LORD'S SUPPER AND THE SERVICE OF GOD IN THE ASSEMBLY

Luke 22:7 - 20; John 17:1

J.T. I have in mind to speak of the Lord's supper in relation to the service of God in the assembly. The Lord has been bringing this subject before His own for several years, and consequently the Supper is, generally speaking, better understood than it was before, also the assembly, and the service of God as carried on now in the assembly. Luke gives us in general terms, public order, continuing and confirming Paul's ministry. John also confirms Paul's ministry, but more on the inward and spiritual side. Hence, instead of giving us an account of the Supper as is found in Matthew, Mark and Luke, John quotes in detail the words uttered by the Lord, the same night that the Supper was instituted. In chapter 17, the Lord, after having spoken at length, lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, "Father", so showing the way to His disciples. He wished them to understand that He had in mind to lead them to the Father, and that they might be able to say, "Father" to God. Luke, therefore, gives us the public side of assembly order in connection with the Supper, and John, the inward and spiritual side which accompanies it. If we do not observe these two sides together, neither the public side nor the inward side will be what they ought to be.

Ques. Is not announcing the death of the Lord until He comes connected with the public side?

J.T. Yes, but the public act will be without power unless we are in the enjoyment of the side presented by John. If we follow Luke's teaching and omit what John gives, we shall become theorists and lack spiritual power.

Rem. What will give us spiritual power, is to do

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it in love. Our hearts will be led to respond to the thought and desire of the Lord in the Supper.

J.T. Yes. The teaching of John 13, 14, 15 and 16 represents the spiritual side underlying the Supper. The ministry of John in these chapters leads further than the Supper, reaching to the heavenly side where we have understanding of the Father, and where we realise also, according to chapter 20, that we are Christ's brethren, His Father is our Father, and His God our God.

It may be helpful to some here, if not to all, to indicate the way by which we arrive at an understanding of the assembly in its public character; that is to say, the kind of place it is in which the Supper is partaken of according to the mind of God. We find this instruction in Luke 22:7 - 13; where it says in verse 8, "He sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare the passover for us, that we may eat it ... there make ready". The Lord could have told them the name of the street, and the number of the house, so to speak, but instead of that, He told them that they would meet a man bearing a pitcher of water.

Ques. Would you say a few words about Peter and John; and why Peter is mentioned before John.

J.T. That opens up an interesting subject. Peter represents, I think, the Lord's authority. He said to him elsewhere, "I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of the heavens" (Matthew 16:19), indicating that Peter has authority. On the other hand, John was the disciple who was in the bosom of Jesus; that is to say, he represents the love side. In a local assembly we need both authority and love.

Ques. Will you say a little more about needing both authority and love in a local assembly?

J.T. We need to see to it that authority and love are there. Peter represents the Lord's authority, which was seen in the elders in the early days of the church's history. It appears today in those who are marked by moral worth among the saints; those who take care of

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the assembly, and watch that nothing that is contrary to the Lord is allowed there. They are marked by discernment as to what is suitable for God's house; their behaviour is such as is outlined in 1 Timothy 3:15, "In order that thou mayest know how one ought to conduct oneself in God's house, which is the assembly of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth".

Rem. That should help us to understand that authority must be maintained, according to the Scriptures, for the glory of God.

J.T. In maintaining authority, and in sympathising with the saints in this way, you make them understand that you love them.

Ques. What difference is there in the authority as represented by Peter, and by the master of the house?

J.T. Peter and John are from the Lord's side, His envoys. The master of the house alludes to the responsible element actually in a locality. This element is viewed as already existing, but it is put to the test by the request of Peter and John, "Where is the guest-chamber". This was the message, "The teacher says to thee, Where is the guest-chamber where I may eat the passover with my disciples?" The Lord sends the message under the name of 'Teacher', that is to say, if christians in this town are altogether taught of God, they will regard the Teacher; they will respect His message. If on the other hand they have a party or sectarian spirit, they will not heed this message. This man raised no question. The Lord said, "He will show you a large upper room furnished; there make ready". The secret of the readiness of this man to acknowledge the message lies in the fact that a man carrying a pitcher of water had entered his house.

Ques. What does the man with the pitcher of water suggest?

J.T. He suggests more than a creed: a creed is not represented by a pitcher of water, for it may be anything from 300 to 1,000 years old, and however good it is it

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is the work of man, and lacks freshness. A pitcher of water carried by a man is carried intelligently. You may be sure that he went to fetch fresh water; it was a pitcher that a man could carry, suggesting that it was drinking water, refreshing, and I believe that the fact that the man carrying it entered the house, immediately accounts for the Lord's request. Hence unless fresh water is brought into a meeting, the Lord's rights will not be recognised there; at the end of this gospel, when the Lord came into the midst of His disciples, He asked them, "Have ye anything here to eat?" Luke 24:41. We are tested as to what we have in the house; if we do not bring in some water -- in other words, some living ministry, nothing will be done. Some believers may be present, certainly, but what the Lord asks for, is "something to eat". We are all tested as to our religious associations; is there any refreshment, or anything to eat in a spiritual way in the associations in which we are?

Ques. Do you think the Lord is still asking, "Where is the guest-chamber"?

J.T. That is what this passage teaches; it is written for our teaching; have I learnt the lesson?

Ques. How can we acquire what is refreshing? Do we get it as together or as individuals?

J.T. In the way it is set here, the question is, Is there a man carrying a pitcher of water into the house? In other words, if I am exercised to find the place where I should be in fellowship, I should look diligently for the existence of this principle, "a man ... carrying an earthen pitcher of water". It is not an empty pitcher, so I can follow him and find water there. He has water in his pitcher, therefore I follow him. Where that man is, there is ministry; he is carrying something. The woman of Samaria came to the well with her pitcher empty, to get it filled, but she met the Lord Jesus who spoke to her of living water and "the water which I shall give him shall become in him a fountain of water,

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springing up into eternal life", John 4:14. The woman then left her waterpot and went to the city. She had living water in herself; that is the idea, a living ministry in earthen vessels, in persons such as we. This passage shows how we can get guidance as to the place where we should take the Supper. The Lord said, "He will show you a large upper room furnished". The word "large" implies that there is plenty of room there, spiritually alluding to the greatness of the assembly. How much room there is for every believer in the assembly! It is an upper room; it is not a cathedral nor a church, which are on earth level; there is no moral elevation in such structures. Since the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, there has been no stone building which has had the slightest moral worth. It is a matter today of a spiritual house having moral elevation, as is said of believers in the epistle to the Hebrews, "Whose house are we" (Hebrews 3:6), and "Ye also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit", Ephesians 2:22. This passage therefore, teaches us the moral conditions necessary to celebrate the Supper.

Ques. Why was it that the room was furnished, yet the passover was not prepared? The disciples had to make that ready themselves.

J.T. It was a question as to what those whom the Lord sent were to do. Christ must always be presented.

Ques. Will you say a word about those who were sent?

J.T. Peter and John represent the authority of the Lord in this matter; they were the ones who had to make ready. So it says that the three thousand, who were converted in Jerusalem, persevered in the teaching of the apostles -- not in the teaching of Luther, nor of Wesley, nor of Calvin, but in the teaching of the apostles, of those who represent the Lord's authority. All christians who desire to move in accordance with God's thoughts must come to this. It is not that the teaching of the men I have just referred to was not more or less

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right, but they are not representative of the Lord in the same way as the apostles. The three thousand, it says, "persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers", Acts 2:42. In the place where we find that fellowship, we shall be sure to find the Lord's supper. Apart from the teaching and fellowship of the apostles we cannot have the Supper. It may appear to be the Supper, but the apostle Paul would say, "It is not ... the Lord's supper", 1 Corinthians 11:20. The Lord said, "There make ready", and it was Peter and John who made ready. Then comes the eating: certainly it was the passover that was immediately in view, but for us the teaching of the passover is in 1 Corinthians 5, where we are to keep the feast with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. This opens the way for the Lord's supper in 1 Corinthians 11.

Ques. Would you say briefly the difference between the passover and the Supper?

J.T. As we were remarking, the passover is spiritually the death of Christ for us; that is, the death in which God judged man in the most unsparing way. "For also our passover, Christ, has been sacrificed; so that let us celebrate the feast ... with unleavened bread of sincerity and truth", 1 Corinthians 5:7,8; it is the death of Christ. On the one hand we have God settling the sin question, and on the other hand, the unleavened bread which has to be eaten for seven days, for the duration of the feast. In other words, in my everyday life, at home or at work, I walk in self-judgment, in accord with the death of Christ. I am sincere in whatever I do; there is to be sincerity and truth. We thus keep the passover and can meet together, can sit down in assembly, and partake of the Supper.

Ques. Do we keep the passover during the week, and take the Supper on Lord's day?

J.T. We keep the feast, but not in a formal way as we do the Supper. It speaks of "our passover", then it says, "Let us celebrate the feast". In our passage the

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Lord says that although He then ate the passover with them, "I will not eat any more at all of it"; that particular feast ended there. In the gospel of John, it is called, "the passover of the Jews", (John 11:55) showing that it had lost its spiritual character. Now it is "our passover", the antitype of Exodus 12.

Rem. In a practical way, applying the passover to our everyday life, it is what the apostle said, "Always bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus", 2 Corinthians 4:10.

J.T. Just so. It is a question of the way we judge ourselves every day, at home, at work, or wherever we may be.

Rem. It involves separation from all that surrounds us in the world.

J.T. Yes, we should sit down in assembly as self-judged persons: "Let a man prove himself", 1 Corinthians 11:28.

Ques. Is Peter always before John; the side of righteousness before remembrance in love?

J.T. Authority must be maintained before love can have free course. These then are the conditions in which the Supper is taken. The apostle says that "the Lord Jesus, in the night in which he was delivered up, took bread, and having given thanks broke it", (1 Corinthians 11:23,24) indicating what occurred when the Lord instituted the Supper. We should observe what the Lord has said, so that the order followed may be in accord with the mind of God.

Now, I would like to say a few words in connection with John 17. There are so many things to say about the way in which the Supper opens the way for the service of God in the assembly. It should be noticed that in Luke 22 and in 1 Corinthians 11, the Supper, or the breaking of bread, is a memorial of Christ; that is to say, we recall Christ in this particular way. He is absent; He has been rejected by men, and crucified. He has gone into heaven; He is no longer here. Those who love Him should remember Him, and do so in the way He Himself appointed. As we are thus calling Him

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to mind, He comes to us, and as we realise His presence in our midst, as in Luke and John, we acknowledge Him as Head amongst us, and worship Him. He is the Minister of the sanctuary, and He leads the service. Certainly He makes use of the saints in thanksgivings, and by the Spirit He helps us, but it is He who leads in the assembly. It says in Hebrews 8:2 that He is "minister of the holy places and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord has pitched, and not man". He leads the service of God in the assembly. Hence, in thanksgiving, and when giving out hymns in this part of the assembly service, we should make a distinction and not make use of hymns, or thanksgivings addressed to the Lord, but rather to God the Father. This is why, at the beginning of John 17 it says, "Jesus spoke, and lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, Father, the hour is come".

Ques. "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise continually to God, that is, the fruit of the lips confessing his name", Hebrews 13:15. Is that the thought?

Rem. At the beginning of the meeting then, it is suitable to sing hymns addressed to Christ, and praise and thanksgiving to Him, but after the Supper, would our hymns and our thanksgiving as led by Christ as Head, be addressed rather to the Father?

J.T. The Supper, the Lord's supper, is the beginning of the meeting, when we have the Lord before us. We partake of the bread which is his body, and of the cup which is the new covenant in His blood, so that we are impressed by the love of Christ. The new covenant is not made with the assembly, but is between God and the house of Israel and Judah, yet it manifests love. The Spirit sheds abroad in our hearts God's love. So while speaking to the Lord Jesus in the Supper, we go on in the service to speak to God, as in new relations. If, therefore, we realise that the Lord Jesus comes into our midst, He leads His brethren, as it says in Hebrews, "He is not ashamed to call them brethren", (Hebrews 2:11)

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and sings praise in the midst of the assembly. Jesus "lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father", and we touch assembly ground when we say, "Father". Jesus is the Son of God, and we are sons of God, as brethren of Christ. The service of God continues on this ground, and those who take part in the assembly should follow this movement, both in hymns and thanksgivings.

Ques. In practice, we often seem to fail to reach the Father; is that because we are not responsive?

J.T. It is because we are not sufficiently exercised about it, and not sufficiently prepared for assembly ground.

Rem. Possibly although we may sing the best hymns, we do not really enter into these things.

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THE PASSOVER AND THE FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD

1 Corinthians 5:8; Exodus 12:1 - 20

J.T. It is proposed that we should consider today the subject of the passover and the feast of unleavened bread; and tomorrow, if the Lord will, the subject of fellowship. The verse read in 1 Corinthians 5 indicates the significance of the passover in Exodus. The ordinance is there transferred to us, for it says, "our passover", and "let us celebrate the feast". In this particular instance, we have instruction as to Old Testament types transferred to those who form the assembly at the present time. You will observe that the passover is in relation to sin, but the Supper, whilst having in mind the Lord's death, is not in view of teaching us how the sin question was met, but is a witness of Christ's love for us. The passover is referred to in 1 Corinthians 5, and this chapter takes up the matter of assembly discipline.

Rem. We have thought that the Lord's supper was the feast, yet the only reference to a feast is in relation to the passover.

J.T. Yes, the Lord's supper is not called a feast. The only reference that could be made is in Jude 12, "These are spots in your love-feasts, feasting together with you without fear, pasturing themselves". The Lord's supper could be included in these love-feasts. They are "your love-feasts"; that is, feast of christians.

Rem. The Supper had degenerated to a feast at Corinth, for instance.

J.T. That was gross irregularity.

Rem. Paul said, "In this point I do not praise".

J.T. More still, he said, "When ye come therefore together into one place, it is not to eat the Lord's supper" (1 Corinthians 11:20), yet Jude would show that christians have feasts, not worldly or disorderly ones, but love-

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feasts. I think that the word 'feast' in 1 Corinthians 5:8 alludes simply to the feast of unleavened bread, indicating that the saints should keep this feast; that we should all eat unleavened bread in our daily occupations. For us, this bread is "sincerity" and "truth".

Rem. When instituting the Supper, the Lord said that it was for all; "Drink ye all of it", Matthew 26:27.

Rem. That is, each person.

Rem. In Corinth each took his own supper; some had much, others little.

J.T. They were eating and drinking as if they were at their own table. The feast of unleavened bread is really to keep us from sin.

Ques. Is not pride, the sin that leaven represents?

J.T. You mean that leaven rises; but that can mark every sin. In the chapter read, it says, "Ye are puffed up". The grossest sin had been committed there, yet the saints were puffed up. You may be sure that where such conduct marks the saints, the general state is affected. In verse 2 he says, "Ye are puffed up, and ye have not rather mourned, in order that he that has done this deed might be taken away out of the midst of you". That shows that leaven was active. If the brethren will read Exodus 12 at their leisure, they will notice that Moses gives an account from verses 21 to 28, of what the Lord had taught him. Moses did not refer to the unleavened bread, for the immediate object was the deliverance of the people from Egypt. When they actually came out of Egypt, they were in such haste that they could not bring any leaven. God now so orders that young people who are leaving the world, give up sin by the force of circumstances. "The Egyptians urged the people, to send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We are all dead men! And the people took their dough before it was leavened; their kneading-troughs bound up in their clothes upon their shoulders". God orders our circumstances for us when we are young, to keep us out of sin. Why were they obliged to leave in

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haste; and why was leaven the only thing they could not carry away?

Ques. Do we have to learn that leaven is always present?

J.T. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves", (1 John 1:8) but God sometimes orders circumstances so that young people should not have an opportunity to sin; He orders their circumstances in grace with this in view. He does it to help them; so they had to leave Egypt without taking any leaven.

Ques. Is this what is referred to by John, "My children, these things I write to you in order that ye may not sin", 1 John 2:1?

J.T. The apostle was writing to saints, that they should not sin, but in the verse in Exodus we find God ordering circumstances to keep us from sin. Parents can count on this in regard of their children. Certainly, as we were saying, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves", and that applies to christians young and old. Being under obligation not to sin, we find this remarkable fact that God orders their circumstances in such a way that they cannot do so. "The Egyptians urged the people, to send them out of the land in haste. ... And the people took their dough before it was leavened; their kneading-troughs bound up in their clothes upon their shoulders".

Ques. Would you say that though it appeared hard and testing to them to leave the land in haste, yet it was God intervening in mercy for them, so that they should be compelled to take their dough before it was leavened?

J.T. Exodus gives an important line of instruction. Jehovah did not lead Israel by the way of the Philistines, for instance, lest they should be discouraged. Conflict might discourage the young believers. Also here we see how God allows the Egyptians to drive them out of the land, so that they should not have time to take any leaven. The young are thus protected in their parents'

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house, if their parents are believers; this environment helps them as there is no leaven there. But it is when they go out into the world and earn their living that danger arises. God would, however, help them to avoid, in their work, associations which would lead them or encourage them to sin, and parents should be wise enough to keep their children from occupations and surroundings which would encourage sin in a special way.

Rem. We can then be thankful if the world hates us; it is our safeguard.

J.T. It is a protection for us. We can see it in the history of the children of God; when they are persecuted, they are kept. The Lord said to the assembly at Smyrna, "Ye shall have tribulation ten days", Revelation 2:10. He had nothing to rebuke in the saints in Smyrna. He had to reproach the saints in Ephesus, and in Pergamos, but tribulation manifestly preserved the saints in Smyrna. The tribulation that God allows in the history of young believers is a protection, to keep them from sin.

Ques. In connection with being 'kept', is this similar to what the Lord Jesus prayed in John 17:15, "I do not demand that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them out of evil"?

J.T. The prayer of the Lord was that we should be kept out of evil, and God provides in grace for this, at the beginning of our history.

Ques. Is it not possible to be kept out of Egypt, and yet have leaven in our homes?

J.T. I was about to remark about that, that in chapter 12 the commandment is in relation to households.

Rem. There are "father's houses" there.

J.T. Yes, but the feast of unleavened bread, whilst celebrated in houses, bears upon the assembly. It says, "Speak unto all the assembly of Israel". Two words

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are used; in verse 3 it says, "the assembly", and in verse 6, "congregation". The assembly is the responsible element, whether all saints are there or not; the word congregation indicates that all are responsible, each individual in particular. The word assembly conveys the idea of a responsible body, even if all the saints are not present, but in the congregation each person is responsible.

Rem. As carrying out these thoughts it says, "The plague shall not be among you for destruction".

J.T. That is the plague of death. Death reigned in every house of the Egyptians, whilst the houses of the Israelites were preserved.

Ques. Is this seen typically in Eli's house? "I have declared to him that I will judge his house for ever, for the iniquity which he hath known: because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not", 1 Samuel 3:13?

J.T. That verse is particularly important for fathers, for in Exodus 12:3 the lamb was "for a father's house". Eli the priest was unfaithful in connection with his house; "his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not". The influence of a believer's house is striking here, as the observance of the feast was what kept away the destructive plague. Fathers and mothers are often indulgent towards their children and, when they sin, excuse and justify them. Then death enters the house; death is there.

Ques. Does the teaching of this chapter apply on one hand to the households of believers, and on the other to the saints collectively?

J.T. That is what I think. If sin occurs in the home of one amongst us, we cannot just say, Ah well, it is his matter, for we are all responsible.

Rem. In 1 Timothy 3:5 it says, "If one does not know how to conduct his own house, how shall he take care of the assembly of God?"

J.T. One, like Eli, who does not know how to rule

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his own house, is disqualified. A man cannot serve in the house of God unless he knows how to conduct his own house. Thus it is not suitable for a brother in whose house defilement is found, to take active part in the assembly. In a christian's house there may be things found which are beyond his control, but if he feels them, God will come in and order things for him.

Rem. Jehovah said of Abraham, "I know him that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of Jehovah, to do righteousness and justice", Genesis 18:19.

Ques. Was not the sin in Eli's house the consequence of his having spared the rod on his sons?

J.T. It says, "He that spareth his rod hateth his son; but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes", Proverbs 13:24.

Ques. There is a big difference between Abraham and Eli?

J.T. Abraham commanded his house after him. When God told him to circumcise his house, he did exactly as God said, and it was after that, that Jehovah came to him with two other persons, and said, "Shall I hide from Abraham what I am doing? Since Abraham shall indeed become a great and mighty nation; and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him. For I know him that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of Jehovah, to do righteousness and justice, in order that Jehovah may bring upon Abraham what he hath spoken of him", Genesis 18:17 - 19. The import of Abraham's faithfulness is seen in a remarkable way in these verses, the end being that Jehovah might bring upon him what He had said concerning him. This shows how our faithfulness brings about in a practical way an answer to the counsels of God's love concerning us.

Rem. Hence you would say that where these principles are not maintained in a gathering, the Lord would

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hide things, and the Spirit will not communicate divine things.

J.T. The work of the Spirit would be hindered.

Ques. How are these principles to be maintained in a meeting?

J.T. The commandment in Exodus 12:15 - 19 is very clear, and bears upon not having leaven in our houses. Leaven should never be found in our houses. Allowing certain kinds of books, magazines and papers into the homes of christians will assuredly lead to sin, and if the houses of the saints are affected by leaven, we can be sure that it will slip into the assembly.

Rem. So it is of vital importance not only to have light in our dwellings, as in chapter 10, but to apply practically the death of Christ there too.

J.T. Yes. I may have my Bible on my bookshelf and all the current ministry, and also have novels there.

Rem. Leaven is not food for our souls.

J.T. It rises, which is a characteristic of sin, and it is infectious. It leavens the whole lump.

Rem. It is when Christ is insufficient for us that we use leaven.

J.T. Just so. Unleavened bread tends to reduce, but leaven puffs up.

Rem. Christ said, I am "altogether that which I also say to you", John 8:25.

J.T. It is not only that we should not have leaven in our bread, but we should not have it in our houses. Something might be allowed into our houses, a bad book, for instance, and a child may take it and read it and be harmed by it. There is a remarkable passage in the prophet Haggai 2:12,13, "If one bear holy flesh in the skirt of his garment, and with his skirt do touch bread, or pottage, or wine, or oil, or any food -- shall it become holy? And the priests answered and said, No. And Haggai said, If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, is it become unclean? And the priests answered and said, It shall be unclean".

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This teaches us that a holy thing does not sanctify other things; then, "If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, is it become unclean?" The answer to this question shows that if I am marked by anything unclean, the uncleanness will multiply itself; that is the thought in the leaven, it is its activity.

We should be sincere and true; the unleavened bread should be of sincerity and truth.

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FELLOWSHIP

Acts 2:42; 1 Corinthians 1:9; 1 Corinthians 10:14 - 22; 1 John 1:7

J.T. During recent years the subject of fellowship has very rightly been receiving consideration amongst the people of God, as a right understanding of this subject is essential for the maintenance of our position in relation to the assembly. There is really only one fellowship, which we may view in its general and also its local setting; naturally it is the general bearing of it which comes first. It should be noticed that in 1 Corinthians 10 the apostle speaks of "the cup of blessing which we bless", and "the bread which we break". It will be noticed that the apostle frequently uses the word 'you' instead of 'we' in this epistle. When he says we, as in chapter 10, he is speaking in general terms: "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of the Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of the Christ?" All this refers to what is general, whilst chapter 11, verse 18, refers to what the Corinthians were doing locally, "when ye come together in assembly". In chapter 1, verse 9, he says, "God is faithful, by whom ye have been called into the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord"; the saints local in Corinth had been called into the general fellowship; that is to say, the fellowship of God's Son.

Rem. This fellowship includes "all that in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ", 1 Corinthians 1:2.

J.T. Just so, it is the general idea, "all that in every place".

Ques. Does local fellowship depend on universal fellowship?

J.T. Yes; we should begin with this great thought, the fellowship of the Son of God; it is the same fellowship everywhere. There is only one fellowship, the

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fellowship of the Son of God, but it comes into expression locally. The first thing to be noted is that in the beginning it was called the "fellowship of the apostles". The three thousand persons who were converted on the day of Pentecost "persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles", which implies that there were other fellowships in the world, but the fellowship of the apostles was established authoritatively.

Rem. The apostle John says, "Our fellowship is indeed with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ", 1 John 1:3.

J.T. Showing that their fellowship was on a higher level than the ordinary fellowship in which we have part; it refers to the testimony. He wrote to the saints in order that "ye also may have fellowship with us"; then in verse 7, he speaks of having "fellowship with one another".

Ques. It refers here to fellowship "with the Father"; is there a difference?

J.T. Yes; it is God revealed in grace; it does not say "our Father", but "the Father", that is God known in grace maintaining His testimony down here, the Father and the Son working together in it, and They introduced the apostles into it.

Ques. Does the expression, "persevered ... in the fellowship" indicate that we have to strive to maintain this fellowship?

J.T. The idea of perseverance indicates that there is opposition. The teaching of the apostles had greater authority than that of Moses, and their fellowship was the outcome of their teaching. What does the word 'fellowship' mean practically? What do the brethren understand by this word?

Rem. We possess the same things and we enjoy them together.

J.T. In other words, we form an association, and all the members of the association are governed by the same thoughts and feelings.

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Rem. It is an outward link in the testimony.

J.T. Just so; hence in chapter 10 we have its bearing on our everyday life and walk. The breaking of bread is the expression of it, but the thing expressed there must exist before we can have the breaking of bread.

Rem. It is good to add that it is the public and practical expression of our bond.

J.T. In everything I do, I am under obligation to my brethren locally and generally, as if each member of the association informed the others of what he is doing so that they could participate. Hence, if I am honest, my conscience will not permit me to do anything when my brethren are not looking, that I would not do when they are looking, for I involve them in all I do.

Rem. In other words we break bread once a week, but we should maintain the fellowship every day.

Rem. We think of one another as being in fellowship with one another.

J.T. All those breaking bread form part of the association, as we all partake of one loaf. It should be noted first that it is the apostles' fellowship, that is to say, it has divine authority; there are other fellowships, such as freemasons, and similar societies, but this one has divine authority, according to what we have read in the Acts. The fellowship of the apostles is authoritative because the apostles represented the Lord, and their fellowship included their doctrine. Other details are then added which show that the thing was put into practice in Jerusalem. It was evident that they were all one: "All that believed were together, and had all things common, and sold their possessions and substance, and distributed them to all, according as any one might have need. And every day, being constantly in the temple with one accord, and breaking bread in the house, they received their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God, and having favour with all the people; and the Lord added to the assembly daily those that were to be saved", Acts 2:44 - 47. There

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was a practical expression of the fellowship, and each day the Lord added to the assembly.

Rem. This fellowship excludes all others.

J.T. Yes; if one, two or several persons form something themselves it cannot be compared with this fellowship. In 1845, a great division took place (at Bethesda) in which the principles of fellowship were ignored; by their independence those people ignored the fellowship of the Son of God; for if it is the fellowship of the apostles, their doctrine must govern it.

Rem. The fellowship cannot be varied according to circumstances; it is the fellowship of every day.

J.T. Just so, like Noah's ark, it passes through the scene of judgment, for it is the fellowship of Christ's death. In Acts 2 we have the authority emphasised, and in 1 Corinthians 1:9 the dignity attaching to it is stressed, it is the fellowship of the Son of God.

Rem. It is the "fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord".

J.T. "His Son" refers to His dignity, and "our Lord" to His authority. Then in chapter 10, we have the communion of His "blood" and the communion of His "body". In 2 Corinthians 13 we find the "communion of the Holy Spirit", and in John's epistle we "have fellowship with one another" (persons are involved).

Rem. So it can be truly said that fellowship originates in the communion of His blood and of His body.

J.T. That is to say, of His death. If anyone entered the meeting room in Corinth on the first day of the week, he would see the emblems on the table. He might ask, What are these emblems? No doubt other fellowships had their emblems also; in the same street in Corinth there might be a Jewish synagogue, a heathen temple and perhaps a christian meeting room, and all three might be visited in succession. In the heathen temple, sacrifices were offered to idols; in the Jewish synagogue one might easily understand what was

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happening, but on entering the christians' meeting room, the elements would be seen. This is the main point of chapter 10; what do they mean? The apostle speaks to the saints "as to intelligent persons: do ye judge what I say. The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of the Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of the Christ? Because we, being many, are one loaf, one body". The thought is expressed there in a most concrete way, and wherever you find a company of true christians you will find this. Believers are identified in these emblems with the death of the Lord Jesus. The blood is separate from the body. What a solemn matter for us to be identified with the One whom the world has rejected and put to death.

Ques. Is that why the cup is referred to first here?

J.T. It is a higher thought, as the cup is witness of the love of God; but the two together represent Christ as having died. The blood being separate from the body is a symbol of a dead Christ, but we have part in this communion; accepting it and being identified with it. But there is more than that in this fellowship, for Christ is raised and has ascended to heaven. The gospel is more than a testimony to a dead Christ, it is a testimony to Christ living and glorified, and in virtue of this, the Corinthians were saved, as the apostle said, "Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures, and ... he was buried; and ... he was raised the third day, according to the scriptures", 1 Corinthians 15:3,4. This testimony is for faith. The whole world can see the emblems, that is why we are publicly identified with a dead Christ, and the emblems signify that believers should walk in accord with that. If the emblems refer to the Lord Jesus as being dead, the question might be asked, Are the saints dead? The teaching of the epistle to the Romans runs parallel to the Corinthian epistle, and it says, "As many as have been baptised unto Christ Jesus, have been baptised unto his death. We have been buried therefore

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with him by baptism unto death, in order that, even as Christ has been raised up from among the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also should walk in newness of life ... . So also ye, reckon yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus ... . Neither yield your members instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but yield yourselves to God as alive from among the dead, and your members instruments of righteousness to God" Romans 6:3 - 13. It is thus that the fellowship is maintained in a practical way.

Rem. Within the fellowship, each member is bound to the other as being delivered from the will of man.

J.T. That is why it says, "Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy?" If I exercise my own will, I provoke the Lord to jealousy; hence a person who partook of the Lord's supper in Corinth would be inconsistent if he went into a Jewish synagogue or heathen temple and took part in the services there. So it says, "Ye cannot partake of the Lord's table, and of the table of demons".

Ques. What is meant by "the table of demons"?

J.T. Simply what the heathen were engaged with.

Rem. It is most important to understand rightly the Lord's table.

J.T. The apostle said, "I speak as to intelligent persons": he is speaking thus to each one of us. Each should ask himself 'What do I know of these things?' This epistle was not written to the elders in Corinth, but to all the saints at Corinth; that is why the apostle speaks to us as to intelligent persons, implying that we ought to know. He appeals to each one of us to judge what he says. Someone may say, 'I am not intelligent, I know nothing about these things'. It is good to confess that we do not know, but why do we not know?

Rem. All he says is connected with the Lord's table.

J.T. Evidently, only the Lord's table here alludes to the bread as distinct from the cup.

Rem. In connection with intelligent persons, you

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just said that we may say, 'I am not intelligent', but 1 John 5:20 says, "We know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding".

J.T. Yes, that is to say, the ability to understand things. In this epistle it says, "We have the mind of Christ", (1 Corinthians 2:16) the thinking faculty like Christ's. It is a christian characteristic, signifying that those having the Holy Spirit are taken account of in this way.

Rem. The fact that we have the Spirit should hinder us from saying that we are not intelligent.

Rem. Speaking of the teaching of the apostles, Paul said, "Think of what I say". This is important.

J.T. Why is it then that we are not all intelligent as to this great subject of fellowship? I think that the Spirit of God foresaw that it would present some difficulty, so He puts it as an obligation upon intelligent persons, and He appeals to us to judge what He says, to consider it, to analyse it, and to seek out its meaning.

Rem. It says that the Berean believers were "searching the scriptures if these things were so", Acts 17:11.

J.T. It is as if Paul had said, 'I do not want you to accept these things because it is I who say them; use your intelligence and carefully analyse what I say'.

Rem. It is an individual exercise, "do ye judge what I say".

J.T. It means judge what the apostle is saying here; he invites you to measure it and to understand. In the following chapter he says, "Let a man prove himself" (1 Corinthians 11:28) before partaking of the Lord's supper; but here, "Do ye judge what I say".

Ques. Is intelligence connected with affection?

J.T. Yes, it involves the Spirit too.

Rem. Mary became intelligent because she loved the Lord.

Rem. But here there is also the question of subjection.

Rem. With Lydia, the Lord opened her heart to attend to the things spoken by Paul (Acts 16:14).

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J.T. It was the Lord's work, but here it is you who do it. There is one other thing: fellowship with one another. John says, "If we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another". It does not say 'we should have', but "we have".

Ques. Do we walk in the light as individuals?

J.T. As each walks in the light it follows that we are all in fellowship.

Rem. I was thinking of Achan's dark deed. Joshua said, "How hast thou troubled us!" Joshua 7:25.

J.T. A striking and solemn example of the thing we are speaking of; he was walking in darkness. "I saw among the spoils a beautiful mantle of Shinar, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a golden bar of fifty shekels weight, and I coveted them and took them; and behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it", Joshua 7:21. That corresponds to what may happen in our houses today, to what is hidden there: the result of it is that there is no power in the meeting, and the thing is exposed, brought to light. If God is not helping a meeting, it is because there is something there not right, some evil that is not judged.

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TWO MEN

Luke 24:4; Acts 1:10,11; Luke 9:29,30

Each of these three passages presents two men, but in three different settings. In Luke 24 two men are at the place of Christ's resurrection; in Acts 1, two men are at the place of His ascension; and in Luke 9, two men are at the place of His glorification.

The incarnation, and Christ's work, His ascension and glorification have in view that men should be found in the realm which He has entered; thus a vast field of enquiry opens up, for this marvellous realm has the saints in view in relation to the counsels of God. This counsel relates to men, for when God created Adam He had Christ in view, because Adam was "the figure of him to come" (Romans 5:14); and it was a question not only of Christ personally but also of the assembly, for Moses says, "Male and female created he them", Genesis 1:27.

When the Lord Jesus became Man, it says, "In him was life, and the life was the light of men" (John 1:4), which indicates that angels were not the immediate objects of the light, but that men were in view in the light which was shining. These three passages show that it is not only a matter of men on earth -- they will be blessed, and the knowledge of God will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea. Indeed, all shall know God from the little one among them unto the great one among them, not in any superficial or temporary way, but this knowledge will be abidingly impressed upon men, truly written in their minds and in their hearts. But these three passages have in mind the heavenly order of man; as it is said, "As we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one", 1 Corinthians 15:49. Heaven will therefore be inhabited by men, and they will enter there in the order presented in these passages. First we shall be raised or quickened. In writing to the Corinthians the apostle says, "Behold,

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I tell you a mystery: We shall not all fall asleep" (verse 51). Many will fall asleep, that is to say, they will die, but those who will be living when the Lord Jesus comes will be transformed into conformity to His body of glory. Nevertheless there must be a changing for all, for it says, "the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed". Resurrection is particularly emphasised in 1 Corinthians 15, and, beloved brethren, we are all going to have part in the reality of the fact of resurrection. Resurrection is God's victory; "thanks to God, who gives us the victory by our Lord Jesus Christ".

The two men in Luke 24 were witnesses of this great occurrence; no doubt they were angels, but they are not referred to as such, for God presents them as men. He did not bring forward Moses or Elias at the sepulchre, but they were reserved for a higher thought -- that of representing the heavenly saints; they are representative of glorified men having bodies like Christ's body of glory. These two men at the sepulchre are witnesses to the fact that there must be men there, and that they must be 'raised men'. We must take account of their clothing described as "shining raiment", Luke 24:4. When we are raised we shall shine like this, these bodies of humiliation will be transformed into conformity to His body of glory. This does not mean that the shining should not exist now; it should exist; the divine thought is that in our testimony down here we should reflect the radiance of heaven. Alas! that it should not always be so; it should be a matter of exercise to us to "appear as lights in the world", Philippians 2:15. It may not always be true of us now, but it will be true of us for ever when we have received our bodies as raised from among the dead. As raised, we shall be conformed to Christ risen and glorified. The bodies which we shall receive will take character from Christ, not only as risen, but glorified. In John 7:39 we are told that "the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet

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been glorified", the Spirit is here as having come from a glorified Christ, and eventually we shall have glorified bodies like Christ's glorified body. He "shall transform our body of humiliation into conformity to his body of glory", Philippians 3:21. But the first great thought, dear brethren, is that which appears in resurrection; either we shall come forth from the grave, if we have entered it, or if living we shall be changed and made like Christ as raised from among the dead.

In the second scripture it is a question of white clothing, the point now being the ascension, and the interval between the ascension and the return of Christ to the world. What should mark this interval is purity, for during this interval we are left in a corrupt world, so it is significant that these two men are in white clothing. The ascension bears upon the testimony down here, because the Lord will return, "This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven, shall thus come in the manner in which ye have beheld him going into heaven", Acts 1:11. The idea of ascension should mark us, for it is to be understood while the assembly is sojourning on earth. It is a question of the manner of His going, and the manner of His return; in other words what marked Christ ought to mark us, and enters into the order of assembly service. That is why it says of the Lord in this chapter, "being assembled with them", the manner of His assembling with them indicating how we ought to assemble. The manner of His assembling and of His going away should be a guide to us in these things, for this reason we should never imitate man's way of doing things. When the Lord Jesus was about to speak of His assembly, He left the Pharisees and went away; then later on He tells His disciples to "see and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees" (Matthew 16:6), indicating thus that while we may have separated from people because of evil marking them, we may yet bring away some of their leaven. We might possibly even participate in the

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service of God in the assembly in the same way as men carry on their religious services. These two men in white clothing would testify against that, their clothes setting forth purity, and their words indicating an order of things governed by the conduct and ways of Jesus. They do not refer only to His ascension, but to what His disciples saw when they beheld Him going into heaven, so that this order of man, as well as the manner of His going, may characterise the service of God in the interval between the ascension of Christ and His return. Compare 2 Kings 2:9 - 12.

In the third passage in Luke 9, the men appeared "in glory". Do we think about this kind of clothing, dear brethren? How do I appear in the assembly? How shall we appear soon in heaven? Not only shall we have white, shining raiment, but glorious garments. Much could be said about the way in which this glorious raiment is produced today. The contemplation of the glory of the Lord has much to do with it; "we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory", 2 Corinthians 3:18.

We may well ask ourselves, 'How do I enter the meeting-room? How do I sit down there? What is my heart filled with? What is occupying my mind?' These two men were speaking with Jesus. Am I glorious when I rise to speak to the Lord? I shall be made glorious if the Holy Spirit is free to operate in me, and when the love of God fills my heart my countenance will shine. How the Lord loves to look on such faces! On the other hand how grieved He is to see dull, unresponsive faces; the love of God filling my heart as I come into the meeting should make my face shine. These two men were speaking with Jesus; it does not say that Jesus was speaking with them. If I lift up my eyes to speak to Jesus does my face shine? Does it reflect the love produced in my heart by the Holy Spirit given to me? Stephen's face shone like the face of an

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angel; that does not mean he was going to be an angel, for in glory we shall be men, but it means that Stephen was reflecting what was in heaven; likewise when the Lord Jesus lifted His eyes to heaven, what expression there was on His face! Not only did He pray or give thanks, but He "lifted up his eyes to heaven", (John 17:1) and this is what God is looking for in the assembly, that we should be able to lift up our eyes and be "all glorious", as is said of the king's daughter in Psalm 45. The Lord Jesus was in glory; "the fashion of his countenance became different", (Luke 9:29) suggesting what He is now, as John says, "as he is", 1 John 3:2. He is all glorious and if we are to come into the assembly to speak to Him, we must also appear "in glory".

These are the thoughts that were before me, dear brethren, and I wish above all to stress the thought of glory attaching to our position as men. The ministry that proceeded from Sinai began with glory, but christianity subsists in glory, and "we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory", 2 Corinthians 3:18. Let us then serve in the assembly in this glorious raiment with the same liberty as Moses and Elias; they spoke with Jesus in glory; the Lord would have us to understand that we can have such freedom in speaking to Him. Why should brothers remain seated in silence in the assembly, and not speak to the Lord? He says, "Let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice", Song of Songs 2:14. Why should I refuse Him what He is looking for? He wants us to remember Him at the Supper, but He also is longing that we should speak to Him with faces shining with divine love. May the Lord bless these few thoughts.

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NEARNESS TO GOD

Exodus 19:1 - 6; Numbers 11:1 - 3; Deuteronomy 25:17 - 19

In reading these passages I desire to point out the advantages there are in being near to God, and the disaster which overtakes those who hold themselves at a distance. In Psalm 148:14 it says, "He hath lifted up the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints, even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Hallelujah!" This verse is calculated to make us appreciate nearness to God, to make it attractive to us; "a people near unto him. Hallelujah!" This is what Jehovah had in view when He brought Israel out of Egypt; He said to them, "I have borne you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself", Exodus 19:4. He had not yet brought them into Canaan, but to Himself. He then indicates to them what they were to be, "Then shall ye be my own possession out of all the peoples -- and ye shall be to me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation".

It may be beneficial and exercising to speak for a moment to those who are holding themselves at a distance. We find in this passage in Numbers 11, that there were murmurings from those who were in the extremity of the camp; those who were choosing to occupy a position as far as possible from the divine dwelling. Outwardly they belonged to the camp, but they kept at the extremity of it. This reminds us, dear brethren, that if in our souls we keep at a distance from God and from His dwelling place we shall be inclined to complain. This spirit of complaint is found in such brothers and sisters; whilst those who are near to God and who enjoy assembly privileges do not complain. Those keeping near to God have no reason to complain; there will be no complaints in heaven. Complaints will only arise in our hearts if we keep at a distance from God

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and from His dwelling place, such as at the extremity of the camp, at the border of the world, whence our eyes begin to turn towards the world.

God desires that we be near to Himself, and all those who love Him and who are still in the wilderness will keep near Him. When bringing His people out of Egypt, He speaks of those who love Him, He says that He shows "mercy unto thousands of them that love me", Exodus 20:6. There are still lovers of God on the earth, and such will seek to keep themselves near Him, because love hates the distance which separates it from its object. In like manner God hated the distance that existed between Himself and His people in Egypt, so He bore them on eagles' wings and brought them to Himself, desiring to dwell in their midst, and that they should make Him a dwelling place. The cloud covered the tent of meeting and the glory of Jehovah filled the tabernacle; in other words He came to dwell in the habitation that the people had prepared for Him, and from it He spoke to His people and invited them to draw near to Him. They must come with their offerings; that is to say we must approach God having Christ in our hearts; it is through Him we have access by one Spirit to the Father. Thus dwelling with His people in the wilderness, God is sought after by those who love Him; those remaining in the extremity of the camp show no sign of love for God. It may be that we are the Lord's; the saints at Corinth certainly belonged to the Lord, they had the Spirit, but were in danger of being judged with the world, so God had to act towards them as He does towards unconverted people. Likewise we see Eutychus who also was in the upper room, seated at the window, whence he could look outside, to the world, instead of seeing all that was happening inside. God had placed His dwelling in the midst of His people whom He loved, and the love He had for Eutychus should have led him to draw near to Him, and not to look outside towards the world. In this

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position that he was occupying by the window, Eutychus was overpowered by deep sleep, and fell from the third storey down to the bottom. This is an example of the danger to which one is exposed who keeps at a distance. Eutychus was not complaining, but he was overpowered by sleep and he fell. In our chapter in Numbers certain ones complained; they were not overcome by sleep, but they were complaining against God, "and the fire of Jehovah burned among them, and consumed some in the extremity of the camp".

It is possible, alas, dear brethren, to be only outwardly near to God, like Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, who offered strange fire. It is the activity of the will in one ministering in the assembly, like it was at Corinth, where believers were behaving wrongly even at the Lord's supper. This is a solemn matter, for the activity of self-will in the assembly is still more serious than it is outside, and may result in one coming under judgment for his wrong conduct in the assembly. However, I am speaking now of persons keeping in the extremity of the camp; they do not typify those who are active in the assembly, but rather those who neglect the meetings, preferring to remain at home rather than make the short journey necessary to be found amongst the saints; remaining at home they pass their time perhaps in worthless reading or in pleasure, or even in bad company. It is almost certain that such persons will be murmurers, and as such will come under the governmental ways of God. Their place in the meeting is empty. God takes account of seats that are empty instead of being filled by those who love Him, and the saints feel these absences too. So we find here that "the fire of Jehovah burned among them, and consumed some in the extremity of the camp". Take care of this, dear young friends, for although we are in the dispensation of grace, it says, "Our God is a consuming fire", Hebrews 12:29. It is not the God of Israel but "our God", the God of those who love Him. It is quite a normal thing for God

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to be a consuming fire; nothing purifies better than fire, and those who love God in reality, are thankful for that which purifies. We certainly do not wish that anyone amongst us should be destroyed -- far be the thought! but God is a consuming fire, and we are glad that corruption should be destroyed. The apostle says, "If any one love not the Lord Jesus Christ let him be Anathema Maranatha", 1 Corinthians 16:22. There is no compromise with the flesh in the house of God. In the case of Nadab and Abihu there went out fire from before Jehovah and devoured them, because they had offered strange fire, this strange fire being evidence of self-will, and of the work of the enemy behind it. As I have already said, the Corinthians were in danger, through their evil conduct, of being judged with the world. "On this account", Paul says, "many among you are weak and infirm, and a good many are fallen asleep", 1 Corinthians 11:30. He tells them also, "If any one corrupt the temple of God, him shall God destroy", 1 Corinthians 3:17. It can be seen therefore how serious a matter it is that anyone amongst us should remain in the extremity of the camp.

Before returning to Exodus, I would like to speak about those who lagged behind through weakness (Deuteronomy 25:17,18). It says, "Remember what Amalek did unto thee on the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; how he met thee on the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, all the feeble that lagged behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary, and he feared not God". It is not there a question of self-will showing itself in murmuring, but a state of feebleness in those that lagged behind. We are exhorted to sustain the weak, and to "make straight paths for your feet, that that which is lame be not turned aside; but that rather it may be healed", Hebrews 12:13. This is the responsibility of those who are strong, who should sustain the weak and not please themselves. However, it is not this side which is occupying us for the moment; I ought to ask myself, why I am weak, why have I to lag behind? Is there not

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sufficient good food at my disposal? Or am I in a poor spiritual state of health which does not allow me to assimilate my food and develop a good constitution? Maybe I do not read the Scriptures, or do not meditate, or do not pray, or read the ministry that God places within my reach. In that case the remedy is in my own hands; it is for me then to judge my neglect, to turn to God about it, and to take advantage of the great amount of food that He has put at my disposal. If, on the other hand, I am not well, and I am ill, there is the Great Physician to turn to. The apostles had received power to cure diseases.

I believe the Spirit of God contemplates the possibility of an epidemic spreading amongst the saints; a contagious disease can spread in various localities. There are also instances of disease which is not contagious; but whether one or the other, there is the Great Physician; why not turn to Him? "Is there no balm in Gilead? is there no physician there?" Jeremiah 8:22. Yes, both are there, and this Physician can cure all the various diseases we have just spoken of. The apostle Peter speaks of desiring earnestly "the pure mental milk of the word, that by it ye may grow", 1 Peter 2:2. It is a matter of the mental milk of the word, so that by means of such nourishment I should no longer remain in a state of infancy: instead of weakness, strength would be developed, such as would enable me to contend with the horses and face the Jordan in flood (Jeremiah 12:5). In David's time there were those who crossed the Jordan when it was overflowing its banks, a feat requiring both energy and strength. Why then, dear brethren, are there so many amongst us who lag behind because of weakness? The divine thought is that there should not be a single weak one amongst us. It says here that Amalek "smote the hindmost of thee, all the feeble that lagged behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary". You can see the danger they were exposed to; Amalek smote them. You are so weak in such a case

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through lack of food, that the enemy works through the flesh in you and stumbles you; possibly you even cease to be in fellowship with your brethren.

Having looked at the danger there is in keeping at a distance, let us now speak for a moment of the blessings resulting from nearness. It says, "In the third month after the departure of the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt, the same day they came into the wilderness of Sinai ... and encamped in the wilderness", Exodus 19:1,2. The Spirit of God is thus taking account of the time that has passed, so to speak, from your conversion until now. The children of Israel were so attracted that they entered upon the wilderness. Later on God could say, "I remember for thee the kindness of thy youth, the love of thine espousals, when thou wentest after me in the wilderness, in a land not sown", Jeremiah 2:2. The word says, "they departed from Rephidim". Having engaged in the great battle of Rephidim, they are now considered to be warriors of God, and Amalek is powerless. This represents a believer who has discovered that the Holy Spirit has been given through the death of Christ, through His sufferings; not even by His ascension, but by the sufferings of Christ. The Israelites had thirsted, and had murmured, so God commanded Moses to come before Him with the elders of Israel, and with the staff with which he had smitten the river, and said to him, "Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock on Horeb; and thou shalt strike the rock, and there shall come water out of it", Exodus 17:6. That refers to the sufferings of Christ in a way calculated to touch us. Jesus has been smitten; the water came out; that is to say, the Spirit was there. So we learn that we can only receive the Spirit through the sufferings of Jesus. In John 7:39 we learn that Jesus must be glorified before the Spirit would come; however, before being glorified He had to suffer. If He had entered into glory without these sufferings, we could not have received the Spirit. It is as we recognise

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what we are according to flesh that the Spirit comes, so that the flesh in us might be kept in check. It is thus that the Spirit's coming is presented in this chapter, and so it is possible to obey and do what Jehovah requires in Exodus 19:5,6. Satan working in the flesh was overcome at the battle of Rephidim and the people are now in a normal position. They have departed from Rephidim, Moses having built an altar there; "Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovah-nissi" (Exodus 17:15), meaning 'Jehovah my banner'. God Himself is our banner. It is a matter of the power of the Spirit of God in us, dear brethren, as we learn in the epistle to the Romans. So we have the departure of the children of Israel from Egypt; their departure from Rephidim, and their arrival in the wilderness of Sinai; they encamped in the wilderness before the mountain. All this is in type for the help of the saints, for God desires to give us as much as possible, so in verses 4 - 6 He makes a proposal to them. Does this not attract us? Can we be content to remain in the extremity of the camp, exposed to Amalek who falls on the hindmost of the people, on the feeble that lag behind? In spite of such a proposal on the part of God, can we do that, we, whom He calls His "own possession" or His "inheritance"? God says, "Jehovah's portion is his people; Jacob the lot of his inheritance", Deuteronomy 32:9. We need the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the full knowledge of Him, so that we should know "what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints", Ephesians 1:18. God is stressing His eternal thoughts concerning us, that we should be near to Him, and responsive to the love that He has manifested in the power of the Spirit whom we have received. In view of all this, He says, "All the earth is mine".

God is bringing out that we are for Him, and therefore He is pleased to take up certain ones to form them so that they may render to Him intelligently the response that He expects. He is saying, so to speak, "I do not

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seek yours, but you" (2 Corinthians 12:14); for "Every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle upon a thousand hills", Psalm 50:10. Not only does He want a treasure, but He also wants priests. "You shall be to me a kingdom of priests"; it is here not a matter of the family of one man, but of the whole company of priests, as the New Testament refers to it, "To him who loves us, and has washed us from our sins in his blood, and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father: to him be the glory and the might to the ages of ages", Revelation 1:5,6. That is the divine thought, dear brethren: we are a holy priesthood and finally a holy nation. National feeling is very active at the present time; there are great nations and small nations, and the great ones are not backward in asserting their greatness, but what is referred to here cannot be found on earth, a holy nation. For us it is more than a holy nation, for we belong to the assembly, and God has made us His sons. "When the fulness of time was come, God sent forth his Son, come of woman, come under law, that he might redeem those under law, that we might receive sonship. But because ye are sons, God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father", Galatians 4:4 - 6. Thus it is not a question only of a nation, but of a company of sons in the enjoyment of the nearness of this relationship, who are saying, "Abba, Father". Such are the great, blessed and dignified privileges, dear brethren, of those who are in relation with God through redemption, and who in this relationship address Him with the same liberty as He to them. Jesus in Gethsemane said to His Father, "Abba, Father"; so we also in this holy nearness, have the privilege of saying, "Abba, Father".

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RETURN TO LIFE

1 Samuel 30:11 - 35; 2 Kings 4:17 - 37; Genesis 45:21 - 28

The Spirit of God would have us prove the necessity of a living state amongst the saints. Many have light, and in certain circumstances they enjoy the light, but are not truly living. Then there are others who, after having had light, fall into a state of moral death; such are alluded to in Ephesians 5:14, "Wake up, thou that sleepest, and arise up from among the dead". Then there are still others in whom God has commenced a work, but who remain in a state of indecision. I would like to make use of these passages to illustrate these three conditions.

In the first passage read, a young man is referred to who had been associated with the world in opposition to God and His people. He says he is an Egyptian young man, servant of an Amalekite, at war with the people of God. Perhaps amongst my hearers are some young people like that; under the influence of others, serving the flesh; attacking the Cherethites who were serving God. The Amalekites also attacked what belonged to Judah; and Judah speaks of what God gives sovereignly to His people. Doubtless this young man did not personally hate either the Cherethites or Judah, but he represents one who is under the influence of the world and the flesh; he is under the power of the enemy and so speaks evil of God's people and of His sovereign choice. It then states that they attacked the south of Caleb. Now Caleb represents the saints as heavenly; as a young man he was not satisfied with the wilderness, nor did his thoughts return to Egypt, but he was determined to enter upon his heavenly part, and now the Amalekite army, of which this young Egyptian formed part, had attacked his territory. Why attack God's people who are taking possession of their heavenly

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inheritance? Why do children of christian families criticise their parents, or their brother and sisters who are not worldly? One sometimes sees this; they do not like to hear heavenly things spoken of; they do not like meetings such as this, and complain about them; that is what this young man did, but he fell sick. Thank God for that illness! He was tired of life. Perhaps there is someone here this afternoon who is beginning to see that there are other things that matter, and beginning to make a difference between the service of God, and the service of the enemy. Beloved brethren, it is our responsibility in each local gathering to seek out such young people. They are perhaps tired of serving the world, so let us be watchful to discover those with such symptoms.

Now David's men found this young Egyptian in the field and brought him to David. It is not said that David found him, it is the privilege of the saints to find such young men or women and bring them to Christ. They brought him to David; that seems to suggest that they were going to pray for him, commending him to the Lord. But it is noticeable that David did nothing to help this man in any direct way, showing what the saints can do in such circumstances. We are told, that they "gave him bread and he ate, and they gave him water to drink"; the saints provide such with whatever they need for strength. Jesus said as to Himself, "The bread of God is he who comes down out of heaven and gives life to the world", John 6:33. It is a matter for us to see if we have such bread which could be eaten by a young man like that; it was bread, and he ate. What a victory when a young person gains some thought of Christ. Then it says "they gave him water to drink"; that is to say, something satisfying, for the world could satisfy him no longer. How good to have "water to drink" when one is thirsty.

Then they "gave him a piece of fig-cake and two raisin-cakes, and he ate". Notice that he ate what was

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given him, and besides water to drink, he was given a piece of fig-cake -- not separate figs -- speaking of what the saints have in unity and holy love. When such holy unity is manifested amongst us, it is attractive to the young. Figs are particularly sweet, and here they are mingled together, "a cake of figs". You will recall the parable in Judges 9, when the trees asked the fig-tree to reign over them, it refused saying, "Should I leave my sweetness?" The fig-tree continued to bear sweet fruit. Young people love what is sweet, and they need it too. It says of this young man that "his spirit came again to him". How important it is to have such young people amongst us, in our meetings; young people who have been brought to live under the influence of Christ, and who have received carefully chosen food. They come to life, and instead of serving the enemy, they are able to fight him. Through this meal the young man is brought back to life, and comes under David's orders, instead of remaining with the Amalekites, governed by carnal tastes. He is no longer under the authority of Satan, but in principle he is under the direct influence of the Lord Jesus, fighting the good fight.

The second passage read is well known, often being used, very justly, to illustrate the gospel preaching. It should be noticed here that the child was given to his mother without her asking for him. If you will allow it, I will speak of this woman as a figure of a local assembly. She was a wealthy woman; a local gathering like Valence can be spiritually wealthy. She was rich, but she thought of the man of God; that is, of Christ, in type; she spoke of him to her husband, and they built a room for him. This room was occupied only by Elisha; the prophet did not simply live in the house with this woman and her husband. This signifies how Christ may have a place in a believer's house, but not the entire place. The feminine side dominates, it is a question more of the woman than her husband. Things should be in order in the assembly, so we should see

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that Christ has His due place. That is what the husband represents here; he had little influence in his house, and if the husband has little influence, it implies that the woman has too much; local gatherings should watch that.

The child is promised, and given; that is to say, there is an addition to the assembly; then the child dies. One day, he went out to his father who was harvesting in the fields. It appears that the father had authority there, although he had little in the house, and the child said, "My head, my head!" His intellect had developed abnormally, in an unbalanced way; the trouble was in his head, and his father could do nothing for him. That does not mean that the Lord can do nothing, but the father was powerless; the state of things existing in the house did not allow the father to have the place due to him, so he sent the child to his mother -- what a poor state of things! -- but neither was she able to do anything. If that continues the meeting will die out; the child died at noon; he died at the very time he should have been most energetic.

However, there is need to take account of a very salutary element in a local gathering; that is, a real knowledge of the man of God. The husband says, "Why wilt thou go to him today? it is neither new moon nor sabbath". Why should he speak of the sabbath when his son was dead? Should we wait until there is a special meeting like this in order to bring a child back to life? Should we not take up the matter immediately? This woman decides she will not allow herself to be dissuaded by her husband and has an ass saddled to enable her to reach the man of God. In such circumstances we must not be wrongly advised. The husband's suggestions are inspired by what is found in general around us; religious duties are only performed on certain feast days, new moon or sabbath; but faith says, 'It must be today, and only the man of God can meet the situation'. She knows where he is and goes to find him immediately. He is on mount Carmel, the place

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of victory, and we should get the spirit of this, dear brethren, in order to meet such a situation where a young person dies spiritually. She found the man of God and is resolved not to leave him until he arrives at the house. She had already placed the child on the prophet's bed; he had to be placed, in type, where the Lord lay. The child must be raised with Christ, must be brought under His quickening influence, and he will come out from his grave. It is said that we are "buried with him in baptism, in which ye have been also raised with him through faith of the working of God ... and you ... he has quickened together with him", Colossians 2:12,13. This child is placed, so to speak, where the Lord lay; his mother put him on the prophet's bed.

Elisha is a type of Christ, although as a man he was marked by weakness, which we must not forget for one moment. He sent Gehazi with his staff, which represents his experience, but one may be as old as Methuselah and yet be quite incapable of awaking a child in this state. Experience is not enough, it is a matter of life, and of the power of God. Elisha therefore came himself and went up to the room; the staff had had no effect whatever, the child still had not revived. It is useless for elderly brothers or sisters to come and say ineffectual things, for it is a question of life; the kingdom of God is in power, and the excellence of the power must be of God. The death of Christ is necessary, and the power by which He was raised from among the dead. Elisha therefore "went in and shut the door upon them both, and prayed to Jehovah". There you are, dear brethren, that is what he did first; he closed the door, remaining alone with the child. The dead child is identified with Christ, for if he is to be raised, it is by the power of Christ, and then his progress will be normal. So Elisha "went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands". This young

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man must become like Christ, he must breathe, see, and walk like Christ; what a beautiful picture of the work of Christ. Then it is a matter of discernment, as to how the young are getting on; "the flesh of the child grew warm"; a change is taking place, the young person is now beginning to get nearer to the brethren to find some warmth, he is no longer as cold as death.

It then says that the prophet "returned, and walked in the house to and fro" as if to show that all this was the result of the state existing in the house. Death had been caused by what was happening inside the house; it is not a matter only of the young person, but of the influence found amongst the saints. Perhaps there were bad books in the house, for the prophet "walked in the house". The Lord Jesus is seen as walking in the midst of seven golden lamps; He visits every locality, and nothing escapes Him, and if something of this kind exists He will show us its cause. The prophet himself "walked in the house to and fro; and went up and bent over him"; first he lay on the child, then he bent over him, and finally "the lad sneezed seven times, and the lad opened his eyes". If there is some young person here in this state, Christ, represented here by Elisha, is very near to you, to serve you in love. What affection the prophet shows in bending over the child; this should be seen amongst the brethren, an older brother or sister going to a young man or woman and bending over them in love.

He sneezed seven times and opened his eyes. What a wonderful thing to have opened eyes, and opened on Christ! and beloved brethren, that is what the young should be able to see in us! He sneezed seven times; his lungs were getting strong, he was alive. Then the prophet said to Gehazi, "Call this Shunammite"; she represents the local meeting. He said to her, "Take up thy son. And she came and fell at his feet, and bowed herself to the ground, and she took up her son and went out". Applying this scene spiritually, what a

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change there was in the house! This woman is touched, she takes up her son and goes out.

In the last passage read, Jacob is an old man, representative here of a believer who has become marked by weakness; in verse 26, "his heart fainted, for he did not believe them". This passage, as I understand it, refers to young brothers growing in the truth, but whose conduct has not been such as has inspired confidence in them by others; time is needed to overcome such lack of confidence. Jacob's sons had deceived him, and their behaviour to Joseph was cruel toward their father. If such conditions exist between young and old brethren, time is needed for it to be set right. These young men had a marvellous message for their father, and we can say too to our aged brethren that the Lord is giving us marvellous ministry; but if the older ones have no confidence in us, they will not believe us. Jacob's "heart fainted, for he did not believe them". It is a great matter to inspire confidence in our ministry, dear brethren; so we read that "they spoke to him all the words of Joseph, which he had spoken to them". They did not speak of their own thoughts, but they carried the message from Joseph. Is there a believer whose heart would not be touched by the word of Christ? They spoke to him all the words of Joseph. Is your heart hardened? the Lord's message is for you, it is for the elder brothers and sisters here; you must wake up from your spiritual lethargy, in order to be marked by life and to take part with your brethren in the meeting wholeheartedly.

"He saw the waggons that Joseph had sent to carry him". When Christ's word finds a way into your heart you begin to see things; you will see the strength which is able to carry you to the end. These are important things. Joseph had sent the waggons to carry Jacob, and when he saw them, "the spirit of Jacob their father revived". It is touching to see that his spirit revived when he received what corresponds to the ministry

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the Lord is giving today, in power, and when he saw the Lord's provision to carry him to the end. "And Israel said, It is enough: Joseph my son is yet alive; I will go and see him before I die". It results in movement towards Christ. What a glorious result! May the Lord bless the word.

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HOW SPIRITUAL RESOURCES ARE OBTAINED

2 Kings 4:1 - 7; 1 Samuel 21:3,6 - 9; Luke 24:41 - 43

These scriptures illustrate how, either individually or as a local company, spiritual resources are obtained. Whether individually or collectively, there is a tendency to fail to recognise what we actually possess, and we are too much inclined to look to others, to look much too far away for the help we need. Naturally, whether as individuals or as local companies, we always should wait on the Lord, but, while doing so we should not disregard what He has already given us, what we already possess. It is right to help one another; we are exhorted to bear one another's burdens and the Spirit of God makes us capable of doing so, so we can count on one another.

The gifts that Christ has given from on high are never regarded in Scripture as being local, but are given to the assembly generally. They may be found perhaps in one special locality, but they are given to the assembly viewed in its entirety, at any given moment on earth. A gift found in Australia belongs just as much to the saints all over the world as to those who live in Australia; in the same way, a gift in France belongs to the whole church just as much as to those who are in France. This is important and saves us from making too much of those in our own locality. The brothers to whom the Lord has entrusted gift belong to the assembly, as Paul says, "All things are yours. Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas ... all are yours; and ye are Christ's, and Christ is God's", 1 Corinthians 3:22,23.

Our position, dear brethren, is in relation to God, which saves us from local or national feeling, but this also shows us that we can seek help outside of our own locality, because the gifts belong to us. Nevertheless,

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we need to value rightly what each may have received from the Lord; that is, what he possesses in himself.

In the first passage read, Elisha asks the woman, "Tell me, what hast thou in the house?" If I speak to the Lord about what I already possess, He will teach me how to make use of it. This widow was in great distress. "The creditor is come to take my two children to be bondmen"; she could not meet her responsibilities. Romans teaches that the righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in us who do not walk according to flesh, but according to Spirit (Romans 8:4), yet this woman was unable to meet the just demands of the creditor. We all owe something; it says, "Owe no one anything, unless to love one another", Romans 13:8. We ought to love one another and are thus always indebted to the saints. If I find that I cannot love the saints I should be concerned about it. This woman felt it and cried saying, "The creditor is come to take my two children to be bondmen", and Elisha replied, "Tell me, what hast thou in the house?"

If a young believer feels he does not love the brethren, or that he is not serving them in love, and he comes to tell me about it, I would tell him to tell the Lord about it; that is what he should do. In a certain sense, Elisha here represents the Lord. What does he say? Does he offer the woman money to pay her debts? No; but why not? If such an one prayed, the Lord would say, 'Have you not received the Spirit?' Elisha said, "Tell me, what hast thou in the house?" Elisha can be considered here as a type of Christ; He has unsearchable riches. There is no limit to the resources at His disposal, yet He says, 'You have got something too; I have given it to you; what are you doing with what I have already given to you?' The woman replied, "Thy handmaid has not anything at all in the house but a pot of oil". She said, "Not anything at all", that was what filled her mind, but is a pot of oil not anything at all? It speaks typically of the Spirit of God; the fact that it

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was in a pot shows the small place it had in the mind and heart of this woman. According to the New Testament believers are to be filled with the Spirit, but she was not, she had only a pot, apparently a small receptacle; in other words, she did not place much value on the oil nor had she thought of making use of it. Why not give it to the creditor? It had some value, showing that it represented the Spirit of God; if we make room for Him we shall then be able to meet all our obligations. The fact is, dear brethren, we are too much inclined to think of the Spirit in a theoretical way, and perhaps do not allow Him much place. According to Romans 8, if I have the Spirit, I am no longer in flesh, but in Spirit, so it is important to make room for Him.

As we have already noticed in our readings, the Spirit of God is a divine Person who, in grace, is pleased to indwell believers: "Ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise", Ephesians 1:13. Again, Paul says, "He that establishes us with you in Christ ... is God, who also has sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts", 2 Corinthians 1:21,22. God has given the Spirit in our hearts, and He sheds God's love there, introducing into our hearts something very precious, the love of God. As a result of His presence in my heart, I love God, and "All things work together for good to those who love God" (Romans 8:28); moreover, I love the brethren. These are the general features characteristic of the Spirit, and we all should take account of them, and make room for Him. This is just what the prophet said to her, verse 3: "Go, borrow for thyself vessels abroad from all thy neighbours, empty vessels; let it not be few; and go in, and shut the door upon thee and upon thy sons, and pour out into all those vessels, and set aside what is full". Beloved brethren, we must understand spiritually what is seen here figuratively. When the prophet suggests borrowing vessels, he is suggesting that you and I must make room for the Spirit in ourselves; then "set aside what is full".

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You will recall the teaching of John 2, in connection with the vessels which had to be filled with water. There is the way it should be filled; a vessel may be half, or three-quarters, or completely filled. Christ was always full of the Holy Spirit, but with us there are varying measures. It is important to see that I am at any rate partly filled; the prophet says, "Set aside what is full", what is put aside is full. The servants in John 2 filled the vessels to the brim, which should be the end in view, but a beginning must be made, and immediately the vessel is filled, it is put aside.

The passage continues, "And she went from him, and shut the door upon her and upon her sons: they brought the vessels to her, and she poured out. And it came to pass when the vessels were full, that she said to her son, Bring me yet a vessel. And he said to her, There is not a vessel more. And the oil stayed". You see, dear brethren, that she shut the door, suggesting that she discussed the matter with nobody; she went to carry out the order the Lord had given. How precious it us to feel that one has exactly carried out the Lord's commandment. It is now a matter of continuing to fill; each vessel she filled impressed her with this thought of filling; let us think of it too, specially the younger ones. A marvellous result will be reached in my soul, I shall be spiritually rich; I have great hopes and I have in my possession the means of acquiring these riches. While this woman was filling the vessels one after the other, she would be thoroughly impressed with this thought, and the vessels, being filled one after the other, suggest that gradually I am reaching the end the Lord has in view for me. Her two sons are simply assistants; she had to carry out the service herself, they are not servants, but sons, suggesting in this way free persons that I can use, as liberty is in view here. I close the door on legal thoughts, sons being in harmony with what is being done. I am therefore perfectly free to carry out the work; the vessels are brought to me one after the other

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by the sons, and I fill them; continue filling them, as the thought of filling has so impressed my mind.

The woman says to her son, "Bring me yet a vessel. And he said to her, There is not a vessel more. And the oil stayed". Note specially that all the vessels were full; there must be none empty, they must be filled with the Spirit. Then in verse 7, we read that "she came and told the man of God and he said, Go, sell the oil, and pay thy debt, and live thou and thy sons on the rest". The sale of the oil is in view of my obtaining what I need, but its spiritual significance is that I must make use of the oil. In selling it I obtain a good price, so that it becomes a kind of currency. I can pay this one and that one, I can pay all my creditors. I must pay the brethren, I must love them and I can do it; the money is simply a figure of something of which I can conveniently make use. Then while doing that, while paying my debts, my living is assured. "Live thou and thy sons on the rest", not just for a day, nor for a year, but simply "live"; it is unlimited. I shall never again be in such a strait; my sons were about to become slaves; my members will never again be in bondage to sin, but I am free to serve God. My members, which the sons typify here, are yielded as instruments of righteousness to God and all the time I can live; it is life to serve God; to serve the brethren. To serve God, and to serve one another in love, is the most blessed of services.

You can now see how each individual believer can be enriched spiritually as knowing how to profit by the Holy Spirit which has been given to him. We need teaching for this, and it is given to us concerning this great subject in the epistle to the Romans.

The second part of my subject is found in the book of Samuel, and I will speak briefly of it. This chapter deals with David's rejection by Saul, which is a type of the period of Christ's rejection; a period when critical situations arise. We see how the priests of God should be ready to meet need, so here it says that David came

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to Abimelech the priest, and in this case food was lacking. David here represents not only a rejected Christ, but also a priest, and from this time onward in his history we can see the priestly state developing in him. This state may be weak, as it is today, specially in young believers. In speaking of David in this way I am referring to chapter 23 where, although not of the priestly family, he enquired of Jehovah. So if he represents priestly features in a young believer it is obvious that such should have priestly food. So I would raise the question concerning brothers who take up priestly service; do they have priestly food? So we see that the saints are expected to have bread; I am responsible to have such a provision. In this city of Nob, David asks, "What is under thy hand? give me five loaves in my hand, or what may be found". There is only holy bread, the priests' food, there. I wonder if, in this locality, or in the localities represented here, we feed on Christ as Man. It is priestly food, what Christ is as Man before God. It is not manna here, which is indeed food for believers, but food for priests, as it says. The priest "gave him holy bread; for there was no bread there but the shew-loaves that were taken from before Jehovah, to put on hot bread in the day when they were taken away".

David then said to Abimelech, "And is there not here under thy hand spear or sword? for I have neither brought my sword nor my weapons with me, for the king's business was urgent. And the priest said, The sword of Goliath the Philistine, whom thou slewest in the valley of terebinths, behold, it is here wrapped in a cloth behind the ephod; if thou wilt take that, take it; for there is no other save that here". Here is another need, dear brethren; not only must we have food for the priests, but also weapons to defend the truth. Have we always that too in our respective localities? The truth must be defended by the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. The priest says, 'We have

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a sword here, wrapped in a cloth behind the ephod'. The sword was there certainly, but wrapped up; nobody was using it. It was no ordinary sword, it was Goliath's, typical of death. Satan makes use of death to keep the people of God in bondage, "those who through fear of death through the whole of their life were subject to bondage", Hebrews 2:15. But the power of Satan has been annulled, and we read, "that through death he might annul him who has the might of death", Hebrews 2:14. The death of Christ involves that of the believer, and a believer applies it to himself: "Put to death therefore your members which are upon the earth", Colossians 3:5.

This famous sword was wrapped in a cloth behind the ephod, it was not in use. It is as though the truth is wrapped in creeds without being used; what is the use of having a thing without making use of it? David says, "There is none like that: give it me". He could make use of it; it is the language of faith. If I understand that death has been annulled, taken out of the enemy's hands, what a victory that is. I am no longer afraid of it. "If, by the Spirit, ye put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live", Romans 8:13.

I will close, dear brethren, with this thought from Luke's gospel. The Lord Jesus when He was raised from the dead, came to His own as assembled. "He himself stood in their midst". This meeting at Jerusalem is representative of any gathering of saints, so then we see the Lord comes to us. We have already spoken of this in our readings. "I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you", but when He comes He asks, "Have ye anything here to eat?" -- a very searching question for each local gathering. We may think perhaps that it is more a matter of what He has for us, but He asks, "Have ye anything here to eat?" David asked the priest at Nob to give him bread, but the Lord does not specify any particular food, but asks, "Have ye anything here to eat?" If the Lord asks us this we must take care how we answer Him; there may

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be many things we are eating, which we should not be able before the Lord to admit was food. If we looked into the houses of the saints -- no matter where -- we should doubtless find many things being 'eaten', which we should not care to speak about to the Lord. Would you not feel ashamed to tell the Lord that you were feeding on magazines, newspapers or novels?

The disciples gave Him "part of a broiled fish and of a honeycomb; and he took it and ate before them". It seems that the disciples were quite sure that such food would please Him; they offered Him this piece of fish and some honey without hesitation, and He took it and ate before them. It is beautiful, dear brethren, how the Lord made this request and how they had something to give Him with such confidence. The Lord neither criticises nor complains, He simply ate it, removing all doubt, since He ate before them.

That is all I have to say. I trust you will understand the thought presented in these three passages; to know how spiritual resources can be acquired by an individual believer, or by a local gathering.

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ASSEMBLY MATERIAL

Luke 8:26 - 56

I have read this long passage having in mind to speak of assembly material as it is referred to in this chapter in a man, in a woman and in a child. Those who accept the gospel become assembly material. The gospel of the grace of God has in view the deliverance of man from the power of Satan, from the world, from sin and from death; but what God has before Him in thus saving man is to form the assembly.

In the epistle to the Corinthians, God addresses a company of christians in that city as "the assembly of God". It was composed of men and women, and doubtless young people too, who had been converted through Paul's ministry; they formed therefore what is termed, "the assembly of God which is in Corinth". Before they were converted, the Lord had said to Paul, "Fear not ... because I have much people in this city" (Acts 18:9,10); at an opportune moment, these people were called by the gospel, so that they are qualified to be "called saints". God's call reached them in the gospel, and they left the world, and as having the Spirit were constituted an assembly: "the assembly of God which is in Corinth". Although only a few members of the assembly may be available to God, there is here in Marseilles the assembly of God.

It should be noticed that it is a matter first of a man who had demons; then, of a woman who had a flux of blood for twelve years, and lastly of a young girl of twelve who was dead. The three cases can be referred to as three features in a believer, or in a wider way, as three features marking a local assembly.

In the man, "sitting, clothed and sensible, at the feet of Jesus", we see the result of the gracious service of Christ: he would represent the side of authority in a local assembly. It says that he was "sitting, clothed and sensible, at the feet of Jesus"; these are important

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features to be found in a local company, and the presence of such a company in a wicked city is a marvellous triumph of God. The area referred to here is called elsewhere Decapolis, showing that it was characterised by the number of its cities, Decapolis meaning 'ten cities'. Beloved brethren, the present period is characterised by the multitudes of cities. Cities have existed in the world since the time of Cain, but at no period in the history of the world have there been as many cities as there are now; they indicate growth and concentration of wickedness. In this passage, the wickedness is viewed as acting specially upon the men, and, of course, it acts also upon women and children. Modern cities would hold little of interest for man according to flesh were it not for the amusements and attractions, often too shameful to describe, which are found there. It is, therefore, significant that Luke represents this man as coming "out of the city ... who had demons a long time, and put on no clothes, and did not abide in a house, but in the tombs".

Quite recently a brother told me that in his country the idea of a home did not exist; this reminded me how in the world the idea of a home is being abandoned. The enemy is seeking to break up the home circle, and is doing so universally. Concurrent with that is to be seen the power of Satan acting against the young, for there is no protection for them. A home is intended to be a protection for the young; God has conferred authority upon parents, and the object of such authority is to protect the young, specially in towns, and to save them from the terrible conditions existing there.

It says that this man "had demons a long time"; I do not suggest that anyone in this town has demons. The light of christianity which has spread over Europe has broken the power of demons in this way, but their power is still to be found in heathen countries. That does not imply that Satan has no power; he has; there are persons who have been in his power for a long time.

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Very likely this was a young man who had left his home, despising the authority of his parents, and had no protection. He went where he would, wherever Satan led him, hence it says that he "had demons a long time". It adds that he "put on no clothes", which is a feature of modern times. The world is marked by a certain lack of modesty in dress and in behaviour. Satan delights in this, but God is dishonoured, for He made clothing for Adam and Eve when they were naked; He hates nakedness. This man was naked; he "put on no clothes", showing the kind of man he was. How had he acquired such features? He had given up the authority God had set up for his protection. He "did not abide in a house", in other words, he was uncontrollable, hence his terrible state. Now it says in a very significant way that he came to meet the Lord: "As he got out of the ship on the land, a certain man out of the city met him". Verbal distinctions are often very important in Scripture. It might be said with accuracy that the Lord met him, but the Spirit of God says that he met the Lord, and this is attributed to the man. In this connection I would say that often people come to meetings as though they have little or no interest, coming because a friend has invited them, but in doing so they come to where the Lord is. What a favourable position, dear brethren!

This man usually lived in the tombs. What a contrast between living in a tomb and coming to the meeting amongst the children of God! They do not live in tombs, they are living people. We do not go to tombs to look for living people, as the angels said to the women, "Why seek ye the living one among the dead", Luke 24:5. This man lived among the dead. In Proverbs 9:15 - 18, the foolish woman calls "passers-by who go right on their ways: Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither. And to him that is void of understanding she saith, Stolen waters are sweet, and the bread of secrecy is pleasant. But he knoweth not that the dead are there; that her guests are in the depths of Sheol". That is

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where this man was living; what a terrible state of things, dear young brethren! But he met the Lord. How often he must have thanked the Lord for this event! It may be that some of you here have tonight come in by invitation, and in doing so you will meet the Lord Jesus; He is here to help you. You may not have come seeking help, but He is here to help you. It is noticeable that when this man saw Jesus, "he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus Son of the Most High God? I beseech thee torment me not. For he had commanded the unclean spirit to go out from the man". It was really the demon speaking; so terrible was his condition that the demon spoke through him. It was an abnormal condition; a demon had actual control of him. But the Lord had commanded the unclean spirit to go out of the man, and it may be that the Lord is uttering a commandment this evening as to some of us here. You have behaved badly, having come under the power of sin, but you have met the Lord here this evening, and it may be that He is ordering this state of things to end for ever. Do I feel my state? Am I judging it? If so, I shall be thankful for His command. We must not dwell longer on this passage, but, as we all know, the demons go out of the man, and the people of the country "found the man ... sitting, clothed and sensible, at the feet of Jesus". What a marvellous change! What a triumph for God! What a deliverance for this man! Sitting at the feet of Jesus, never again will he be seen with no clothes, he is clothed and sensible.

That is the first of these three features, and I would add that a sober and balanced mind is of great value for the assembly. As I said earlier, the man represents the side of intelligent authority in the assembly. Authority must be maintained in the assembly, and this can only be as we have sober and balanced minds and sit at the feet of Jesus. This man would make an excellent brother, and Mary of Bethany an excellent

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sister in a local meeting. It does not say that this man was listening to His word, but can we doubt that he did? Mary listened to what Jesus was saying; she did not ask Him to speak on a certain subject, but she listened to all that He said. There are some who only accept part of the truth; that is how sects begin. Mary would not want only part, she would say, 'I need every word of Jesus'. She is a true model for every brother and sister. Every word of Jesus is as pure gold; we cannot afford to neglect a single word He says. It says of Samuel that none of his words fell to the ground, nor do the words of Jesus. They fell into Mary's heart, as they have done into the hearts of millions of others. Nobody should allow himself to miss a single word of Jesus. The Lord thought of that, knowing how forgetful we are, so He said, "The Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and will bring to your remembrance all the things which I have said to you", John 14:26. This is the present service of the Holy Spirit, or rather part of His service, to remind us of all the things that Jesus has said. That is what is involved in the position of this man "sitting, clothed and sensible". What need there is of such men as he, whether at Corinth, Ephesus, Marseilles, Paris, London, or New York; wherever there may be an assembly, God needs such men in each local meeting. This man represents one of the great features of local assembly material.

In the second passage we see a woman who had been ill for twelve years, representing thus another view of the same person. The man had had demons a long time; but the duration of this woman's illness is specified. What is in mind in her case is inward sin. If we regard her state as representing sin in a man or woman we must remember it is there from birth. It says, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh", and it cannot be improved; but we do not discover all that immediately we are converted. After I am converted, I become

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deeply affected by the discovery of my terrible condition, hence it says of this woman that "having spent all her living on physicians, could not be cured by any one". Such is the inward state of a believer who has discovered what sin is, a state that is analysed in Romans 7. We cannot dwell on this now, but at the end of that chapter, the writer cries, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of this body of death?" He has discovered his wretched condition. Possibly there is a believer here who has never yet discovered his wretched state; this woman had, and she had suffered under it for twelve years, until she touched the Lord Jesus. Crowds were pressing upon Him, but she said to herself, "If I should only touch his garment I shall be healed", Matthew 9:21. You will notice that she had no doubt about it. When the light of the gospel of the Son of God penetrates the soul it brings confidence. "If I should only touch". Here she touches Him; in other cases, as with the leper, it was the Lord's touch which brought blessing, but this time it is for you to approach Christ. You have suffered for twelve years, but now light has reached your soul and you say, "If I should only touch his garment I shall be healed". Do you understand such language? There is none like it in the world; there are many languages, but this is the only one known and valued in heaven. What language is it? It is the language of faith. You will not find it on any list of human languages, for there is none like it. It is the language of faith that this woman utters when she says, "If I should only touch his garment I shall be healed", and in spite of the crowd she does so. The crowd is there only as representing the many difficulties arising when one has decided to touch Christ. She was only a weak woman, who might easily have said, 'In spite of my desire, I cannot reach Him because of this crowd'; but the language of faith has no such expression. She is determined to touch Him, and she does. This touch caused power to go out of Christ,

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the word 'power' here indicating an irresistible power. All the medicine in the world could not have produced such an effect; she was immediately healed. Would you not like to be relieved in this way? Well, if you are suffering from the consequences of your sins, or from your inward state, it is in your power to touch Christ. Jesus is here this evening and you can touch Him. You will understand that I do not mean physically but spiritually. You can make up your mind to touch Him, expressing yourself in the language of faith, and as a result power goes out from the Lord, and He knows it. Millions of persons could touch Him, and this power would go out; such is our Saviour. He is God, and we cannot limit His power. What a Person we have to present to you, dear friends!

On the other hand, this woman exhibits the dissimulation of man. We are all inclined to dissimulate and deceive; the Lord knows it and He will not let you go. If the power that has gone out of Him has entered your soul, He would like you to let it be known, so He asks, "Who has touched me?" It may be that a million people have touched Him, but each should confess that he has done so, and has been healed through this touch. In confessing it as this woman did, one becomes qualified as suitable material for the assembly. In Scripture, women always represent the subjective or the affectionate side of the assembly. Not that divine love only exists amongst the sisters, it also marks brothers, but women represent that side. So what happened to this woman is a type of the formation of a member of Christ; power is gone out from Him and has acted inwardly in her, and what has been produced abides eternally. We become members of Christ as a result of power operating in us, and as such, we become transparent and no longer try to deceive. She fell down before Him and "declared before all the people for what cause she had touched him". How important that is in our local meetings! Reservations and little deceptions

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only cause difficulties to continue. The body of Christ cannot function without transparency: I must say the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. That is what this woman did, whom the Lord calls, "Daughter". What a bond, to be called "daughter" by this great Person! You are incorporated into the heavenly family. You are one of those who stand upon the sea of glass, indicating that you are transparent, that you speak the truth; everything is open in your relations with the brethren and with God. "For even as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of the body, being many, are one body, so also is the Christ ... and have all been given to drink of one Spirit", 1 Corinthians 12:12,13.

In such conditions the body can function, dear brethren, but it cannot function if this disease is not cured, and if we do not speak the whole truth. I am in the assembly as a result of the work of Christ. The Lord calls this woman "daughter" and says to her, "Thy faith has healed thee; go in peace". It was her faith which had done it, and I would add, that if you have a little faith, it is God who has produced it in you. Faith is not a fruit of the flesh, but a gift of God. We have therefore the man who represents intelligence and balance and rule in the assembly, whilst the woman represents transparency. With such material we should have a good local meeting.

A third aspect of the assembly is freshness. It is a question here of the daughter of Jairus, who was twelve years old. There are children here who are about that age, but I do not wish to speak of that, but rather of youthfulness spiritually as characterising a local company. The believer is viewed simply in another way. This young girl was twelve years of age, a period corresponding with the duration of the disease of the woman, and in a certain sense to the period of time this man had been enslaved by demons, "a long time". Twelve years is a long time to be possessed by demons. So

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this young girl simply typifies another aspect of a local company. It is a peculiar spirituality which is in view; it is marked by youthful freshness in all our meetings, and is what is termed in Colossians 3 the "new" man. This word signifies what is young and fresh. That means that in the meetings I do not always give out the same hymns, nor use the same expressions in thanksgiving, nor say the same things in readings; it would indicate that the Holy Spirit is not grieved.

In order to produce this feature, the Lord turned out all who are governed by natural sentiment; "When he came to the house he suffered no one to go in but Peter and John and James and the father of the child and the mother". There were those there weeping, who derided Him when He said that the child was not dead but was sleeping. Such persons had only natural sentiment. In Matthew it says there were flute-players. All that is but a hindrance to spiritual freshness, so the Lord turns them all out. That may seem very arbitrary, but if we want spirituality we must do the same. He took with Him Peter and John and James and the father and mother of the child. Then it says, "But he, having turned them all out, and taking hold of her hand, cried saying, Child, arise. And her spirit returned, and immediately she rose up". See, dear brethren, what a wonderful scene, how holy and spiritual! The Lord of glory was there; the three principal disciples -- the most spiritual men on earth -- were there; the father and mother, those most directly affected and responsible, were there too. In such a holy circle the Lord says, "Child, arise", and it adds, "her spirit returned, and immediately she rose up". Now see what a wonderful state of things follows; the Lord commanded something to eat to be given to her, indicating that this state of youthful spiritual freshness must continue, it must be maintained amongst us. You can see, dear brethren, how essential these three features are in each local company of God's people.

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PERSONS OF INTEREST TO HEAVEN

Luke 23:27 - 30; Luke 22:61,62; Luke 7:44; Luke 10:23,24

You will notice that each of these passages mentions that the Lord turned either to one person or to several. In the first passage Jesus turned round to people who were lamenting His sufferings: "A great multitude of the people, and of women who wailed and lamented him, followed him". They were not weeping or lamenting for themselves; like many people today they had a measure of sympathy for the Lord; they are not apostate. There are many apostates in christendom; in one great European country christianity has been completely refused, and nearly all the other countries are putting it aside little by little. But there are some who are sorry about this, and would like to keep christianity in the world; they do not want to return to paganism or re-establish Judaism. They prefer christianity, hence they regret the rejection and ruin of it, but they are not at all sorry about their sins, nor are they concerned about the judgment to come. This is what is set out in the first scripture we have read. These women were lamenting the Lord Jesus because He was being led to His crucifixion, but they were not lamenting their own sins, hence it says, "Jesus turning round to them". The Lord is not indifferent to the opinions that are current today in christendom, and He is sympathetic with those who would maintain christianity as the religion of Europe. In that connection He turns round towards us, as if to say to us, "Weep over yourselves". Previously some told Jesus "of the Galileans whose blood Pilate mingled with that of their sacrifices"; it was cruelty. The Lord said, "If ye repent not, ye shall all perish in the same manner", Luke 13:1 - 3. That is what I would impress on our spirits, at this time, that whether christianity is rejected in Europe or not, unless we repent we shall come under judgment. So the Lord says, "Do not weep over me, but weep

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over yourselves and over your children ... . Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us". The Lord directs the attention of these women upon the judgment to come. The evils that are the consequence generally of bad government, are to be regretted, but, while regretting them, we must not forget that each one of us will come under judgment, so the great thing is to weep over ourselves.

Is there one here who has never shed a tear over his own sins? if not, now is the time to do so, for "it is the portion of men once to die, and after this judgment", Hebrews 9:27. Have I ever thought of that? that unless I repent, I shall come under judgment, and this judgment is not simply death. How solemnly this is described to us in Revelation 20:12,13; the prophet John "saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne ... and the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and hades gave up the dead which were in them". All the dead, great and small stood before God. John also saw "a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and heaven fled", but the dead did not flee, they stood before the throne, each to be judged. And how were they judged? "Books were opened ... and the dead were judged out of the things written in the books according to their works". How solemn all this is, dear young people! Have you ever wept about this, about yourselves? It is good to be sympathetic towards people who may be ill-treated in the world; and to sympathise with those who are ill, or who are suffering; and God would encourage such feelings in us; but what about your own state? This most terrible sentence bears on us, "If ye repent not, ye shall all perish in the same manner". Is there somebody here who has never repented of his sins? This meeting is in view of leading you to repentance; "God therefore ... enjoins men that they shall all everywhere repent" (Acts 17:30); this is addressed to you now, and we beseech you in the name of the Lord to repent now.

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"Jesus turning round to them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep over me, but weep over yourselves". He is moving towards the cross where He is about to die for them, but His heart is so full of tender compassion for them that He says, "Do not weep over me, but weep over yourselves". How touching it is to see Him turn round to them, and He is turning round to each of us here this evening.

In chapter 22:61, it also says that the Lord turned round, and this time looked at one person. Who was this person? Perhaps such an one is here tonight; someone who has not only sinned in a general kind of way, but in an inexcusable way. Peter had sinned in a most inexcusable way, and it was all the more serious because the Lord had warned him. He had been warned. He had said to the Lord, "Even if all should be offended, yet not I", and Jesus says to him, "Verily, I say to thee, that thou today, in this night, before the cock shall crow twice, thou shalt thrice deny me", Mark 14:29,30. Are there not some here who have been warned, and in spite of the warnings, have followed a path in which they have sinned and denied the Lord? Your name has been recorded by the Lord; He has noted that He told you on such a day, in such a month, in such a year, that if you pursued this path you would surely sin and deny Him. The Lord has not forgotten this warning; perhaps you have forgotten it, or neglected it and have fallen under the power of the devil, and have sinned grievously. If so, the Lord is here this afternoon, to turn round towards you and look at you.

"The cock crew"; the hour had struck; Peter had grievously sinned, but the Lord turning round, looked at him. Amid all His sufferings, He thought of this sinner and sought to lead him to repentance and confession. "The cock crew", the moment has now come for you to confess your sins: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins", 1 John 1:9. The time has now come for you to repent;

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do not put it off till later, do not pass out of this door without repenting; the opportunity for you to be saved has come. You notice that Peter wept bitterly; the Lord had not turned to him in vain. May it be that this meeting is not in vain, but that someone will turn to the Lord repenting and receive the forgiveness of sins. A repenting sinner will receive forgiveness. In the gospel it is proclaimed that remission of sins is offered by Christ, because He gave Himself for our sins; He died for our sins and He suffered for our sins, so God can pardon you now; forgiveness is proclaimed. Will you not repent and accept God's precious offer, forgiveness? As I said, Peter's sin was inexcusable, for the Lord had warned him, but like many young men and young women, he neglected the warning; it says, "They having lit a fire in the midst of the court and sat down together, Peter sat among them" Luke 22:55. You may be neglecting the warning, and go away and sit down in the midst of worldly people. Perhaps you say, 'It is quite legitimate for me to have a meal with a friend, and to sit in a restaurant to take a meal with a companion'; but who are these companions? Are they christians? Who were the people Peter was sitting with? Did they love Jesus? No, they were some of the enemies of Jesus, and Peter was sitting in the midst of them. You will have noticed how it happened. "A certain maid, having seen him sitting by the light, and having fixed her eyes upon him, said, And this man was with him. But he denied him, saying, Woman, I do not know him". Whilst you are sitting with ungodly friends someone comes towards you and says, 'This young man is a christian'. You find that in such company you have no power to confess the Lord; you are in bad company. Peter said, 'I do not know the Lord; I do not know the Nazaraean'. See how dangerous to be amongst bad companions. Then it says, "After a short time another seeing him said, And thou art of them. But Peter said, Man, I am not"; Peter was afraid and

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told lies. It then says, "After the lapse of about one hour, another stoutly maintained it, saying, In truth this man also was with him, for also he is a Galilaean". You notice that he had been allowed one hour; an hour had passed since the first two lies. Now Peter replies, "Man, I know not what thou sayest". We see then what one is capable of doing, when warnings are ignored and bad companions are followed; but the Lord has His eye on you. He has followed all that is happening; He sees you in this place in company with such people; He has heard what you said. And, "the cock crew. And the Lord, turning round, looked at Peter". Think of the Lord of glory turning round to look at a poor sinner, but He did not turn in vain. "Peter, going forth without, wept bitterly". Have you done so? Forgiveness awaits you.

I will pass on now to the third scripture, in chapter 7. Here it says, "And turning to the woman he said to Simon, Seest thou this woman?" He did not tell anybody to look at Peter when He turned round to him; His look was for Peter alone, and Peter understood its meaning, and it brought him to repentance. This look of Jesus pierced his conscience; Peter went out and wept bitterly. It was a matter between the Lord and Peter, for the Lord does not wish to expose us to others. He seeks to expose us to ourselves, in order that we are able to judge ourselves. But here he says to Simon, "Seest thou this woman?" Who is this woman to whom He is attracting attention? She is worth looking at. A poor sinner is not worth looking at; the Lord does not invite us to look at them: if the Lord looks at them it is in order to convict them. This woman had a spiritual history, and there are such persons here to whom the Lord would draw your attention, if you wish to see them. Who was this woman? She too had been a great sinner. The Pharisee called her a sinner, a woman of the city. She had been a sinner, but she had changed her mind about sin. She saw that the path

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of sin leads to judgment, but she saw more than that, she saw the Saviour. He had been invited into the Pharisee's house, but she came uninvited. Have you come here because you have been invited? This woman entered into Simon's house because Jesus was there. Enduring the freezing atmosphere of the Pharisee's house, she stood behind Jesus, weeping. Like Peter, she realised she was a sinner; realising it and repenting. She is judging her sins, and is weeping over them. Such a woman has a spiritual history. She has an alabaster box of myrrh, and she anoints the feet of the Saviour. The Lord does not forbid her such a privilege. If she had done it in hypocrisy, He would not have allowed her to do it, but He saw that she was repentant, and too she had ointment. She was weeping for Jesus, and her tears were tears of love. She had already wept over herself, but now the Lord is accepting her service, as in addition she wiped His feet with the hair of her head. No doubt most here have learned that unless they have long hair, they cannot wipe the Saviour's feet. This woman had not shortened hair. She understood that her hair had been given for her glory, and she could never use it more gloriously than in wiping the feet of the Saviour. Well, dear friends, that is the kind of woman to whom the Lord turns and attracts attention. He did not attract attention to Peter, but He did to this woman; "Seest thou this woman?" The Lord is not ashamed of her; she is one of the jewels in His crown, a trophy of grace. She will shine in the coming day as a trophy of the death of Christ! What a triumph when the Lord can say, "Seest thou this woman?" She was a repentant sinner who, now that she had been forgiven much, loved much; she was loving Jesus. Are there some here who do not love Jesus? I fear that there are; may God not allow you to continue without love for Jesus. It says in Scripture, "If any one love not the Lord Jesus Christ let him be Anathema Maranatha" (1 Corinthians 16:22), meaning let him be

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accursed at His coming. It is a terrible thing to be without love for Jesus, so I would warn all those who do not love Him. This woman loved Him; "she loved much", it says of her. Why did she so love? Because He had forgiven her so much. So the Lord turned to her and said to Simon, "I entered into thy house; thou gavest me not water on my feet, but she has washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with her hair. Thou gavest me not a kiss, but she from the time I came in has not ceased kissing my feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint, but she has anointed my feet with myrrh. For which cause I say to thee, Her many sins are forgiven; for she loved much", Luke 7:44 - 47. You will notice that not only does He draw Simon's attention to this woman, but he tells him that her sins are forgiven. No matter what Simon might think of her, the Lord Jesus said, "Her many sins are forgiven". Simon had said that if the Lord was a prophet, He should have known that she was a sinner, but the Lord knew her whole history. He says, "Her many sins"; she was a great sinner, but all her sins were forgiven. Dark though your history may be, the Lord would say to you that your many sins are forgiven. What is so beautiful is that the Lord also speaks to the woman, saying to her, "Thy faith has saved thee; go in peace". Is there not someone here who would like to hear these words? Possibly this woman knew very little, or even nothing at all about the matter of faith. It is a word that is scarcely mentioned in the Old Testament, though mention is made of people who had faith. Hebrews 11 gives a long list of persons who lived in Old Testament times who were marked by faith. It may be that those here may have faith without knowing it. The Lord does not say here, what is said in the epistle to the Romans, where it is a question of the teaching of justification by faith. Here He says, "Thy faith". Perhaps you have never thought that you have faith, yet persons who have known you, who have observed you, know that

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you have. If it is so, the Lord can say to you, "Thy faith has saved thee". The Lord says elsewhere, "If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say to this mountain, Be transported hence there, and it shall transport itself", Matthew 17:20. So that is the word of encouragement the Lord would give to some here, "Thy faith has saved thee, go in peace".

Now in the fourth passage, the Lord turns to the disciples saying, "Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see". First of all, I spoke of persons who were weeping about Christ instead of weeping about themselves and judging themselves; then of the sinner to whom the Lord turned and who wept bitterly; finally of the woman, the great sinner to whom the Lord turned and who was forgiven. Now, I would just say a word to those who are found amongst the Lord's disciples; that is, those amongst us who have the forgiveness of sins, who have received the Holy Spirit, who love one another and are known as disciples of the Lord. The Lord is turning to you now. What has He to say as He turns to His disciples this afternoon, dear brethren? He says, "Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see". Think of the things that the Lord brings to our attention, dear brethren, of the glorious things the Holy Spirit is presenting in the ministry He is giving us. The Lord says, "I say to you that many prophets and kings have desired to see the things which ye behold, and did not see them". Abraham, David, Solomon and the prophets saw wonderful things, but they did not see the things which we see. Do we appreciate them? Then the Lord adds, "And to hear the things which ye hear, and did not hear them". In these last days, the Lord is bringing great things to the notice of His own. For more than a century, there have been wonderful revelations as to the rights of God and of Christ; as to the assembly, and all that is to come; do we appreciate them? Are they matters of secondary importance, or have they the first place with

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us? Abraham would have loved to see them. Moses said, "Let me, I pray thee, see thy glory" (Exodus 33:18), but God did not grant this, whilst now to us all the glorious things of Christ are unfolded. Do we value them? The Lord turns to us in order to impress us by the great things that have been revealed to us so that we may value them. May God grant it to us.

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ENERGY IN THE WORK OF GOD

Haggai 1:1 - 15; Haggai 2:1 - 9

I have chosen this book on this occasion, because it shews the immediate effect of the prophetic word. All ministry should have something of prophetic character. According to 1 Corinthians 14, it is the kind of ministry that is particularly to be desired; the one who prophesies edifies the assembly. Moreover, when the whole assembly is gathered together and prophetic ministry is there and if some unbeliever enters, he will fall on his face, reporting that "God is indeed amongst you".

In the prophecy of Ezekiel, we see also how the Spirit shows to the prophet a valley filled with dry bones (Ezekiel 37). He is told to prophesy over these dry bones, and the bones came together, and sinews and flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them over. The result of the prophetic word is seen in the production of life, and in that which expresses life; the skin covering the body indicates how the Spirit beautifies what is there. Hence, dear brethren, you can see how important is a word of prophecy.

It says in the book of Ezra, that Haggai prophesied. "The prophets, Haggai the prophet, and Zechariah the son of Iddo, prophesied to the Jews that were in Judah and Jerusalem; in the name of the God of Israel", Ezra 5:1. They did not prophesy in their own name; no true prophet of God makes himself prominent; nobody serving in the power of the Spirit has his own name before him. Moreover, it says of these two prophets, that they worked "to build the house of God which is at Jerusalem". Their word had an immediate effect, and they took their place in the work that their own ministry promoted amongst the people. In other words, they represent servants who not only express the mind of God, but who show how to carry out His word; as the Lord Jesus said, that He was altogether that which He said unto them. The one who brings

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in God's word should be the first to set an example of its effect upon us, and this is what is seen in Haggai and Zechariah.

Whilst it says in Ezra that they prophesied to the Jews, it says here that the word of Jehovah came to "Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest". What is emphasised is that Haggai's message was for those who were particularly responsible. In Ezra, where the message was to the Jews, all the people were included, but in Haggai, as we remarked, it was for those particularly responsible, Zerubbabel who was the governor, and Joshua who was the high priest. The counterpart to Zerubbabel today would be the leading brothers who take the responsibility of things amongst us; while those corresponding to the high priest are those who sympathise with the saints, sisters being included as well as brothers. The high priest evidently had as much authority as Zerubbabel, priestly power being a matter of spiritual intelligence and sympathy. Holiness, too, should characterise priests. Aaron, the great high priest, being called "the saint (holy one) of Jehovah" (Psalm 106:16), indicating that he was a holy person. The priesthood represented by Joshua involves the most spiritual amongst us, indeed all of us. You can thus see, dear brethren, that Haggai's message is addressed to the oldest brothers, as being the most responsible, and to all, whether young or old, who are spiritual and intelligent. The saints in their entirety are also included, as we see by what follows (verse 12), "Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and all the remnant of the people, hearkened to the voice of Jehovah their God", and "Jehovah stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people". Hence the message, while addressed to the most responsible, is for all.

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Those who were responsible, and all the others too, had become rather negligent and selfish: they were thinking of their own houses rather than of the house of God. What a state of things! yet, alas, dear brethren, how often it is found amongst the saints. We are all inclined to be selfish, that is to say, we think of ourselves, our homes, our families, our farms, and the house of God has a secondary place with us. Where such a state of things exists, this book specially applies; in verse 4 the prophet asks, "Is it time for you that ye should dwell in your wainscoted houses, while this house lieth waste?" This is a very direct question, followed by the injunction in verse 5, "And now thus saith Jehovah of hosts: Consider your ways". The word 'consider' is important, according to the note it means literally, 'Set your heart on your ways'. We are invited to examine our ways for a moment, to give them our undivided attention, not that we should become occupied with them, but it is a matter of searching and analysing them to see if they are such as are suitable to those whom God loves, and who love Him.

As though He would help us in considering our ways, and bring us to see how defective they are, God says in verse 6, "Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but are not satisfied; ye drink, but are not filled with drink; ye clothe yourselves, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages for a bag with holes". Dear brethren, God would help us to arrive at a true judgment about our ways, and would say to us, as it were, 'Things are not going as you would like'. There are young people who set out with certain plans before them; you only think of your own interests; no doubt you have it in mind to be in fellowship, as we speak, but the fellowship and the things of God have only second place with you, and now you find that things are not all as you had thought. Why is that? Simply because God loves you. Around you, you perhaps see unconverted young people who appear to

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get what they want. One of the psalmists asked one day, why the wicked prospered like a green tree, but when he entered the sanctuary of God he understood that the end of the wicked is terrible. A child of God, a saint of God, suffers down here, and seems to be limited, or does not prosper in this world; why should this be, dear brethren? Because God loves us, and He has better things in view for us. If He gave us the prosperity we desired, we should lose the blessing and spiritual prosperity He has for us. For this reason He shows us here that those who give His interests a secondary place, and their own the first place, do not prosper; He says, "Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but are not satisfied". Then in verse 7 Jehovah comes back to this point, "Consider your ways"; take time at once to examine your circumstances, your history, what you have in mind for yourself. After one hour's consideration in the presence of God, you will change your mind. This is what happened according to this book; a prophetic word was uttered on the first day of the sixth month, and on the twenty-fourth day of the same month it says, "Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and all the remnant of the people, hearkened to the voice of Jehovah their God" (verse 12). Dear young people, twenty-four days after the prophetic word had been uttered, all these people had changed their minds. They gave the house of Jehovah the first place, and the result is described in chapter 2, verse 18. "Consider, I pray you, from this day and onward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month, from the day that the foundation of Jehovah's temple was laid, consider it. Is the seed yet in the barn? Yea, the vine, and the fig tree, and the pomegranate, and the olive-tree have not brought forth: from this day will I bless you". You will notice that blessing is brought in when we are marked by obedience, and by listening to the word.

Let us look now and see what this word is: "Go up

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to the mountain and bring wood, and build the house, and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith Jehovah". This is the word: "Go up to the mountain", indicating that fellowship and the service of the children of God, as well as the testimony do not allow us to be at ease, to be lazy and negligent. The things we have been called to in the fellowship of the Son of God surpass everything in this world, and compared with them, the things of this world are worthless. Nehemiah could say, "I am doing a great work" (Nehemiah 6:3), and it is the same for us, dear brethren; God has called us to the most exalted service possible. Do we appreciate it, or do we find the work irksome? God says, "Consider your ways. Go up to the mountain". He delights to use figures which are perfectly understandable; and in saying, "Go up to the mountain", He is alluding simply to exercise. Our hearts will certainly be tested, but it is a question of knowing whether He can support us. We must be strong, and in climbing up we shall find strength; for a healthy person exercise is strengthening. The object in mind is clearly indicated; what shall we find on the mountain? Certainly it is not to see a beautiful view; though what a beautiful view we have on the mountain in Matthew 5. We find material, so to speak, in this chapter; the Lord speaks of Himself up there; He says, "Ye have heard that it has been said ... but I say unto you", all through the chapter He is drawing their attention to what He is saying; He always has the last word, and His words express what He is. He says, "The heaven and the earth shall pass away, but my words shall in no wise pass away", Matthew 24:35. How blessed it is to have to do with such a Person whose words will never pass away, who speaks with authority, whose words express who He is. This is what the wood represents here; the kind of person who was there. It says, "Go up to the mountain and bring wood, and build the house". The house must be built of material which is like Jesus. The apostle Paul

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said, "Other foundation can no man lay besides that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ", 1 Corinthians 3:11. The title 'Jesus Christ' indicates the kind of person who was there, the One to whom our attention is drawn in the sermon on the mountain (Matthew 5 - 7). It is quite in keeping with the teaching of Matthew's gospel, which has the assembly in mind, so here it says, "Go up to the mountain and bring wood, and build the house, and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith Jehovah". In Scripture wood is a type of the humanity of Christ; the best illustration I can give of this is in Exodus 15, where it says that Israel came to Marah, and they could not drink the waters of Marah for they were bitter, and Jehovah showed Moses wood. Some may think that this wood is representative of the cross of Christ, but it is not so, it represents Christ. The wood was cast into the waters, and the waters became sweet. The glorious Man who came down here, who was honoured by heaven, was He who entered into death; that is what the wood represents. That is why wood had to be brought. In Nehemiah an offering of wood was required, which is very suggestive; in these circumstances the offering of wood is necessary, that is, Christ formed in us in the power of the Spirit of God.

After that it says, as we were remarking, that twenty-four days after, "Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and all the remnant of the people, hearkened to the voice of Jehovah their God, and the words of Haggai the prophet, according as Jehovah their God had sent him, and the people feared before Jehovah". In the presence of such a prophecy each one should desire to have his own heart brought to be filled with fear after twenty-four days. What a remarkable time, three weeks and three days! Not only Zerubbabel and Joshua, but all the people were brought to consider the things of God, and it says in verse 14, "Jehovah stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah,

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and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked at the house of Jehovah of hosts". They came and worked exactly according to the words of the prophet; they did not do just what they thought right, but what God asked for. The date is given in verse 15, "the four-and-twentieth day of the sixth month, in the second year of Darius the king"; it is as if God would take note of a date like that. He records, so to say, the date of the day on which He spoke to you, and He is observing you to see the effect His word has upon you; in their case it was twenty-four days; that is to say, three weeks and three days.

The second chapter is for our encouragement when we begin to move in response to God's word. About a month later, the twenty-first day of the seventh month, there was another message: What was it? "Who is left among you that saw this house in its former glory? and how do ye see it now?" (chapter 2:3) This signifies, dear brethren, that that which we have may appear externally quite small compared with that of apostolic times, but what will become of it? Listen to what it says, "I will fill this house with glory ... The latter glory of this house shall be greater than the former, saith Jehovah of hosts". I would like this thought to sink into the heart of each one here, and of the young particularly; what we are occupied with may appear externally small, but in spite of that it says, "The latter glory of this house shall be greater than the former". Does not this encourage us to go forward with energy and purpose of heart? We must not despise the day of small things; young people are inclined to despise the smallness of our meetings, yet according to this prophet what we are engaged with now will be greater than what the saints were engaged with in apostolic times. That does not mean, dear brethren, that we shall have large meetings, but it means that what we are engaged with

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will be displayed in the heavenly city, the most magnificent and glorious work in the universe of God; she will come from God having the glory of God (Revelation 21:10), which will be a most precious "shining". What is alluded to is nothing less than what will be outstanding later on. That is the word for us, dear brethren, and I trust it will encourage us to "lift up the hands that hang down, and the failing knees; and make straight paths for your feet, that that which is lame be not turned aside; but that rather it may be healed", Hebrews 12:12,13. We must go up to the mountain, that is, face matters in exercise and power, and in that way the wood represents ourselves as the subjects of God's work. The building is going on and God says, 'I am pleased with it'. How precious it is to think that God is pleased with what I am doing now. Nobody here should exclude himself from this work, for it says, "Whatever thy hand findeth to do, do with thy might", Ecclesiastes 9:10. It does not say, 'If thy hand findeth something to do', but "Whatever thy hand findeth to do". We shall find some work if we desire it. It is a matter of putting your hand to it and having part in it; God says, "I will take pleasure in it".

The great end will be in glory, the holy city, coming down out of the heaven from God.

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MANHOOD IN SERVICE

1 Corinthians 16:13; Genesis 4:26; Genesis 5:21 - 24; Genesis 6:9; Genesis 8:20,21

I have in mind, dear brethren, to speak of man as God desires to have him in testimony in this world. One might also speak of man as the object of the counsels of God, this side of the truth being seen in Luke 9, where the Lord Jesus is on the mount of transfiguration. When He was transfigured before His disciples, there were seen two men talking with Him; these represent the heavenly saints. In the counsels of God, man is to have a place in heaven; hence it says, "Such as the heavenly one, such also the heavenly ones. And as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one", 1 Corinthians 15:48,49. The Lord Jesus spoke to His Father concerning the men that the Father had given Him, asking the Father that they might be with Him where He is, that they might behold His glory. Moreover, He told His disciples that He would come to them to take them to be with Himself, that in His Father's house there were many abodes and that He was going to prepare a place for them (John 14). All this is in mind in the passage in Hebrews which refers to us as "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling", Hebrews 3:1. This side of the truth should touch our hearts and stimulate us; in an instant we shall be transported from earth to heaven and made like the Lord Jesus as He is, as the apostle John tells us, "We shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is", 1 John 3:2. He is coming to transform our bodies of humiliation into conformity to His own glorious body.

We will now refer to man as indicated in these passages we have read. Testimony in the world is in view, as well as the formation of believers, under the government of God in the circumstances indicated. The subject, as before us this evening, is rightly found in the epistle

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to the Corinthians, for they were hardly in harmony with the divine mind in relation to man as in the testimony. It was not that the ministry that had reached them was not of God; nor that the ministers were not in correspondence with their ministry, for the principal minister was the apostle Paul who had with him Silvanus and Timothy, three men who were in full accord with their ministry. They did not preach about themselves and in no way gave prominence to themselves in their ministry. Paul says: "We do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus Lord, and ourselves your bondmen for Jesus' sake", 2 Corinthians 4:5. They preached Christ, and themselves as bondmen of the assembly, so that the apostle could say in his second letter, "For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, he who has been preached by us among you (by me and Silvanus and Timotheus)", 2 Corinthians 1:19. As you see, they preached the Son of God; it was, therefore, the best pattern that was presented to them, but alas, the result was not what might have been expected, for the apostle had to tell them that he could not "speak to you as to spiritual, but as to fleshly, as to babes in Christ. I have given you milk to drink, not meat", 1 Corinthians 3:1,2. He had to speak to them as to babes in Christ; in other words, they had the Spirit; they were considered as being in Christ, but they had not grown. For instance, one said, "I am of Paul" and another, "I of Apollos", which clearly showed that they had not reached the stature of full manhood, of full growth. The apostle told them that these sectional expressions denoted a low and carnal state; hence in chapter 14 he exhorts them: "In your minds be grown men", 1 Corinthians 14:20. The word 'mind' should be noticed in this epistle, for, according to God, our mind should govern us, so to speak. This thought is expressed in Romans 7:25. "I myself with the mind serve God's law". The mind is a faculty given us by God which should govern us, but the mind which is before us now, dear brethren, is the mind of Christ, as it says in chapter

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2, "We have the mind of Christ" (1 Corinthians 2:16), which indicates that, normally, a christian thinks as Christ does. He is capable of arriving at a right judgment, he is not senseless. We see the opposite in the epistle to the Galatians, where the apostle makes use of the word 'senseless', saying, "O senseless Galatians, who has bewitched you?" Galatians 3:1. That should not have to be said to christians; unbelievers are senseless, but it is humiliating that converted people, having the Spirit, should be marked by such unworthy behaviour that they are called "senseless".

In writing to the Corinthians Paul says, "I speak as to intelligent persons: do ye judge what I say" (1 Corinthians 10:15); we are intelligent because we have the Spirit. I suppose this verse expresses what is potential, hence we take account of one another as having the Spirit, and can be encouraged by the fact that there are great possibilities in christianity. In chapter 14 he says, "but in malice be babes; but in your minds be grown men"; in other words, malice should not be active at all in us. Then we come to this passage: "Be vigilant; stand fast in the faith; quit yourselves like men; be strong. Let all things ye do be done in love", thus indicating what the apostle had in mind for Corinth. Corinth was a wicked city, noted for its depravity; for which reason the saints had need to be on their guard that they should be established and controlled. "Like men", that is, do not be unstable like children, without self control; as John says, "He that has been begotten of God keeps himself", 1 John 5:18. We have the power at out disposal to keep ourselves; God has given us this power, and as we exercise it we are men according to God.

I would now like to illustrate this thought, or rather to show how it is amplified in the book of Genesis. I would draw attention to the fact that the word 'man' includes the woman as well as the man. In the beginning God said, "Let us make man in our image", then it says that "God created Man in his image, in the image of

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God created he him; male and female created he them", Genesis 1:26,27. The word 'man' in this sense includes male and female; it is a question of the kind of being. What we have said then refers at the same time to brothers and sisters. Hence, using what is said in Corinthians, we can say to the brothers, 'Be men' and to the sisters 'Be women'; for God gives in the Scriptures His idea of a woman in Sarah, Rebecca, Hannah in the Old Testament, and in Anna, Lydia, Priscilla and many others in the New Testament.

God said of Eve that her seed should bruise the serpent's head; so when Cain was born, Eve evidently thought that he was the seed who should do this, but it was some thousands of years after Cain before the Seed came who would bruise the serpent's head. But whilst awaiting this God displayed the thought of manhood in one person after another until Christ came. The full thought of manhood, dear brethren, is set out in Christ, as the scripture expresses it so magnificently, "The mediator of God and men one, the man Christ Jesus". He is the Son of God who would do the good pleasure of God, according to the Old Testament. That could be said of One only, though every true believer should resemble the great Model in some measure, and should be governed by one great principle, which is to do the will of God. Cain did not in the least answer to that thought, he was a murderer, but Abel answered to it. Abel represents Christ, and the feature of manhood which appeared in Abel was suffering; He offered to God "a more excellent sacrifice" than Cain (Hebrews 11:4). That is the first feature; he offered a sacrifice, and one that was pleasurable to God. The epistle to the Romans teaches us that a believer always has something to sacrifice, and as he sacrifices he shows in himself the stature of the full-grown man; he presents his body "a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God", Romans 12:1. This is seen in Abel.

I pass on now to Seth, whose name means

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"appointed"; he is appointed in place of Abel; typically it refers to Christ as slain and risen. Christ risen has taken the place of Christ who was put to death for us. It then says that to Seth also was born a son, and he called his name Enosh, a name which shows that Seth had faith. His faith recognised that his son, born according to flesh, was not according to the divine thought; Enosh signifying 'Man, as weak, mortal'. Nobody can attain to the thought of full grown manhood according to God, who has not learnt in himself what man in the flesh is, as the Lord says, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh", John 3:6. Now you will notice, dear brethren, that it says after that, "Then people began to call on the name of Jehovah". That is one of the great features of the grown man, he has no confidence in himself, but in God.

What is to be noted then is what comes out in Enoch, who, we are told, walked with God. "The mind of the flesh is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God; for neither indeed can it be", Romans 8:7. When I see that, I begin to call on God, and in calling on the name of God I obtain the power of the Spirit. So it says, "Ye are not in flesh but in Spirit, if indeed God's Spirit dwell in you ... for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God", Romans 8:9 - 14. So you can see how the epistle to the Romans develops this thought of full-grown manhood, for it is in the sons of God, led by the Spirit, that manhood is manifested, and this corresponds with what is found in Enoch. In Romans 8, we are enjoined not to walk according to flesh, but according to Spirit, and in so doing we are walking with God. Enoch walked with God; what a marvellous thing to walk with God! What is brought out is that the man who walks with God is outside of this world. Moreover, before being taken by God, God said, 'I am pleased with this man'. God took him, but before taking him to heaven, God gave him to understand that he had pleased Him. How precious and blessed to have

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the sense of being pleasing to God! He is so pleased with you that he is happy for you to walk with Him, and He is so pleased to see you walking with Him that He says, 'I want you for ever'. Think of God saying that! He took Enoch to be for ever with Himself. The kind of man that will be in heaven is the one who pleases God down here.

The next man is Noah; it is also said of him that he walked with God, but it says more, "Noah was a just man, perfect amongst his generations". There are three things noted: he was just, he was perfect amongst his generations, and he walked with God. If a man is perfect amongst his relations, and a question arises as to God, he will take God's part. This is what the tribe of Levi did; he said to his father and his mother, "I see him not", Deuteronomy 33:9. If questions arise, a just man like Noah would take God's part and not his relatives'. This having been said of Noah, it is added that he had three sons, and their names are given, indicating that he is a man who will populate another world; he is the kind of man who would bring a contribution to the assembly, to God's world.

Passing on to the end of chapter 8, I desire just to show that Noah sacrificed to God, he built an altar, in other words, he was a builder. He built the ark on the orders of God, and now he builds an altar. God had not asked him to do this, but how pleasing it is to God to see one of His children doing what pleases Him without having to tell him! He knows what God desires without God telling him. The construction of the ark was an important matter; the fact that Noah built this great vessel shows that he was a man capable of undertaking great things; this is the point I wish to bring out. There are little things to be done in the service of God, and He will never despise the smallest thing we do for him; but to be a full-grown man according to God it is necessary to be able to do great things. There are great things that need doing, and if they are

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not done in our locality, it is because there are not any great men to do them. In Jerusalem there were great things that needed doing in Nehemiah's day, but there were no great men to do them until Nehemiah came to Jerusalem, and travelled, with this in view, some hundreds of miles. When he came to Jerusalem, he said, "I went out by night", and such was the state of things that "there was no place for the beast under me to pass", Nehemiah 2:13,14. What work had to be done, and there had been no one there to do it, but Nehemiah undertook to do it, and while doing so, could say, "The work is great and extended", Nehemiah 4:19. In every locality represented here, there is a great work to be done, but the question is, Is there a great man to do it?

Noah builded the ark, doing it under God's direction, and the ark is brought safely through into another world, and Noah comes out of it under divine ordering. The feature of full-grown manhood seen in him is very attractive. Then he built an altar to Jehovah. This was one of the greatest things he did; morally it was a greater work than the ark. The ark was to carry some creatures into another world, no thought of worship comes into it. Great though that work was, there was in it no suggestion of the worship of God, but in the altar there was. It was the first altar that was built and morally was a great work. "Noah built an altar to Jehovah". The Lord Jesus told the Samaritan woman that the Father was seeking worshippers. He was seeking them in Noah's day, and He is seeking them now. Noah's heart was responsive to the thoughts of God, and so he "built an altar to Jehovah". Nobody had told him to make it, and nobody had ever made one before, so in this sense it is he who inaugurated the service of God. He was a man used to making great things, and there can be nothing greater than the service and worship of God. Moreover, it says that he "took of every clean animal, and of all clean fowl, and offered up burnt-offerings on the altar"; that is, he did

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not build the altar just for a religious display, but he built it to Jehovah, and he used it for the purpose for which he had built it. In taking "of every clean animal, and of all clean fowl" and offering them on the altar, he showed his unselfishness. We may worship in a half-hearted way, and God will accept what we offer, as when Jacob said to God, "I will without fail give the tenth to thee" (Genesis 28:22), and God was prepared to take it. Here Noah offers of every clean animal, and of all clean fowl. He might have said, 'If we offer them we shall have no cattle left of this kind', but he did not think like that. If I am attached to the material things I possess, I shall find that I shall want to give only a little for the service of God, but this was not at all in Noah's mind. He took "of every clean animal, and of all clean fowl", that is to say he offered, without reserve, the best that he had.

Dear brethren, these are only a few of the features of full-grown manhood, which are required in the testimony of God, but they are ones that God is longing for. He says elsewhere, "I called, and none answered", Isaiah 66:4. It is not like that today, dear brethren, for there are men; in this room there are men whom God is using,, but He wants more. He needs us all, desiring that we should no longer be babes but men, that we should be strong and vigilant, holding fast and doing all things in love. May God grant it.

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OBEDIENCE, SPIRITUAL ABILITY AND LIFE

Acts 2:42; Acts 9:32 - 43

These passages give instruction as to conditions bearing upon the assembly; it is a very wide subject as the Scriptures contain much instruction concerning the assembly. Hence I do not propose to attempt to cover all the ground, but to limit myself to three features: firstly, obedience, which necessarily excludes independence; secondly, ability to take up matters relating to the assembly; and thirdly, life.

In speaking of the assembly, I should like to remark that every believer should recognise that if the Lord has given him light, He has done so in order that he may take his place in the assembly. The gospel testimony was never to be confined to the relief that it gives to men; it announces deliverance from the coming wrath and from Satan's power; it also proclaims that which liberates the consciences of men, delivering them from the fear of judgment to come, from the world and from the flesh. Each has need of this deliverance, and most of us know that the gospel offers men deliverance from all these things on the principle of faith. But it also has in view that the persons who are thus delivered should take their place relative to Christ as Head, and to the assembly which is His body: that excludes individualism, and also collective independency. Moreover, what flows from that is that where two or three believers reside in a locality, there should be something of a collective nature for Christ. I say 'two or three' to reduce it to the smallest possible number; two or three of the assembly obeying divine principles can enjoy assembly privileges, and as enjoying these privileges and blessings which are linked with the assembly, they are qualified to render public testimony. Whilst most of us know this, it is of immense importance in a town like this which has had a history in connection

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with the testimony of God. The Lord would, in these last days, enlighten His own in every town, in order that there might be in them a state of life, and that they should value what is precious to Him. It is of the greatest importance that some at least should be devoted to Christ, intelligently keeping His commandments, and valuing all that He values, so that the Lord might gather in all that has been for God previously in this town, and produce that which may be a home for the testimony right on till the end.

To reach this end, dear brothers and sisters, the great principle of the recognition of divine authority must be observed, none other can be accredited in the assembly. In this country there are the authorities who govern, as throughout the world, and we pray for them. These authorities are concerned in the public government of God in the world, and all true believers pray for such, but they do not govern the assembly, which is under the direct authority of Christ. This authority was set out in the beginning by the apostles, so I read Acts 2:42, so that we might see how the early believers immediately recognised His authority. Some three thousand souls were converted through a single gospel preaching (a result which has possibly never been equalled since), but this preaching was in the freshness and power of the Holy Spirit who had just been sent down from heaven. In one of his letters, Peter tells us that there were those who announced the gospel in the power of the Spirit sent down from heaven; the gospel itself thus bore all the authority of heaven, brought here by a divine Person, the Spirit of God. Peter standing up on that memorable day, said to the people of Jerusalem, "Give heed to my words", Acts 2:14. Here was a man who outwardly was looked on as a fisherman of Galilee, lacking the religious refinement and instruction which existed in Jerusalem, but the words uttered in the burning power of the Spirit of God sent down from heaven, produced such

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results that many were convicted amongst his hearers, and those who believed said not only to Peter, but to the other apostles, "What shall we do, brethren?" It is to be noticed that those who were convicted, recognised them as representing the authority of heaven; they not only took account of Peter's authority, but also of that of the other apostles. In other words, whatever the authority may be, if it is of God it must be acknowledged. What is said of these three thousand persons is that they persevered in the teaching of the apostles; it is noticeable that it is a question of the teaching of the apostles, because they are representative of what I am speaking of -- Christ's authority. Note also the word 'persevered'; how important it is for us to be marked by perseverance today. The strong current of evil is absolutely contrary to us and the tendency is to give up and to let go; but these three thousand who were converted, persevered. In what did they persevere? In the teaching of the apostles. We may rest assured that in doing so, they did not overlook what Moses and the prophets had taught them; the Old Testament Scriptures retained their authority over them.

Some weeks before, the Lord Jesus, when raised from the dead, had interpreted in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself, so that there was no question of putting aside the Old Testament. When it says that they "persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles", it means that the Lord had raised up those men as His representatives, so that what was done was as if the Lord had done it. The enemy will always oppose what the Lord is doing, so his efforts were directed to get rid of these men, but those in whom God was working paid attention to their words, persevering in their teaching, and not in their teaching only (for I may easily hold the teaching yet remain as an individual) but in the fellowship which had been inaugurated.

I am persuaded that if there is anything today that

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the enemy would like to destroy, it is the maintenance of fellowship by the few who are enjoying it. If the leaders of religion knew that a few brothers and sisters were meeting in this room, they would regard them with scorn, and if they could persuade some of those meeting here to listen, they would seek to turn them aside: hence the necessity of perseverance in order to strengthen the fellowship.

In this chapter we notice that not only did they continue in the fellowship, but in the breaking of bread, and they did not make it a monthly or quarterly matter, as happens in certain denominations. The context shows how great importance was attached to the breaking of bread, which was done in their houses. I suppose that at that time in Jerusalem there may well have been a hundred small companies breaking bread -- what a sight! what delight for heaven to see those dear disciples in their affection for Christ, persevering in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in the breaking of bread and prayers. You can be sure that they prayed together more than once a week, and the seal of divine authority was upon all they did.

In the second passage, it should be noted that Peter is brought before us again; from chapter 6 up to this point he is scarcely referred to, but now we are told that Peter passed through all quarters. He was not an idle servant; it is not the time for idleness, the need is so great in the Lord's service. It then records that he "descended also to the saints who inhabited Lydda". He descended to them and the Spirit of God relates that there was a man in the town "who had been lying for eight years upon a couch". That is what the Spirit mentions first; it is not recorded simply to occupy us with this one fact, but with the spiritual thought it conveys. It is quite possible for us to pray while lying in bed; the psalmist records how he arose in the night to give thanks to God. During the night watches we can turn to God in prayer, while lying on our beds,

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and He hears us. To pray for the saints is one of the most important services that can be rendered, and those who are laid aside can devote themselves to this service; bedridden persons like Aeneas could do so, but there is nothing to indicate that he was so occupied. What we are given to understand is that he was doing absolutely nothing; and if he was to do anything, he ought to begin in his own house and local setting; so Peter said to him, "Aeneas, Jesus, the Christ, heals thee". What a remarkable thing to say to a paralysed man who had been lying on his bed for so many years.

"Jesus, the Christ"; who is He? If we consider this title it means that Jesus is the Christ who does everything for God, and who would like to see me too, doing something for God. He would give me to see that the kind of work that is pleasing to God cannot be done on a bed. "Jesus, the Christ, heals thee"; He does not impose any conditions, neither is any mention made of faith; the light which penetrated his soul showed him that Jesus was the Christ, and that if He cured him, it was in view of his doing something. He heard that he should begin in his own house and locality; that he could do something himself, and no longer needed anyone to make his bed. "Make thy couch for thyself" means spiritually that I am to be occupied with conditions in the locality, and to see if all is in order. I cannot do this while on my bed, or in an armchair; I must be active, the need is so urgent: "Rise up, and make thy couch for thyself"; others had had to do it for eight years, but Peter said, 'Now you can do it yourself. Christ has healed you so that you should be able to do it'; "and straightway he rose up". That is the first great element for God in a locality, following the thought of obedience and of the recognition of divine authority. I see that it is necessary to set things in order, and I begin; I do not wait for visiting brothers to come to do it. A meeting which has to rely upon visits of others does not really answer to God's thought.

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It is for each brother to do his own work in his own locality, and for that he must rise up, and start moving; power is available; "Jesus, the Christ, heals thee". Healing is what He does constantly, so that those who are cured should take up local exercises.

The final thing in the second part of this chapter, begins at verse 36. It is not a question of a man, but of a woman. In its public setting the assembly needs men and women. Obviously women are not called upon to teach or to preach, but they can live in a spiritual way; that is what we have to learn in the case of Tabitha. She was a remarkable woman, but she died; as I have said already, we do not have to be occupied with the material side of this case, but with its spiritual significance. That such a woman should die is quite natural, hence the Spirit of God does not relate the incident to give us material facts, but with spiritual instruction in mind. This woman was very kind, she made clothes for needy people; it says of her that "she was full of good works and alms-deeds which she did". Such a sister in this city or in any other would be considered a good sister, but she fell ill and died, that is to say, that these outward kindnesses did not of themselves promote spiritual life.

This incident shows, dear brethren, that sisters should be more than outwardly kind. There are societies in the world bearing the name of this woman, but their meetings are not always marked by spiritual life, things being spoken of there that are far from being spiritual. This incident shows that something else is needed for spiritual life than works only; hence the Spirit of God says, she "grew sick and died", signifying spiritually that she became gradually weaker, which finally resulted in coldness, and death. We can see how this happens to many people around us. Why does it happen? The cause should be ascertained, for when persons become cold, and die morally in this way, there is some underlying reason, some secret matter, so Peter

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is sent for. Aeneas had not called for him, but here two men sought him out, and this man representing the authority of Christ goes with those who had been sent for him. If we call in such a man as that, we must be ready to listen to what he has to say to us, for he will not humour us. In this case we see some women who are deeply affected: "all the widows stood by him weeping and shewing him the body-coats and garments which Dorcas had made while she was with them". Peter puts them all out; are we ready for that? Why put them all out? There must have been something there that was not good. When the Lord came to Bethany, Mary was weeping, the Jews were weeping, and Jesus wept with them, but it was not like that here. These widows represent something different from what marked Mary, and the Jews who wept with her. These widows simply represent sentimentality without anything spiritual underlying it, so the Lord teaches us that there must be spirituality.

When the Lord Himself went to raise Jairus' daughter, there were women there and flute-players (Matthew 9:23), to help, I suppose, in the mourning, all of which is quite valueless, so the Lord then put them all out. Are we prepared, dear brethren, to be thus treated by the representative of Christ's authority? You may be like these women who are weeping, but Peter put them all out, as much as to say, they were a hindrance. In the things of God natural sentimentality is only an obstacle; what he did may seem hard, nevertheless it was the apostle Peter who did it. It might have seemed hard when the Lord turned out those who were weeping in Jairus' house, but it was the Lord who did that, and who can question what He does? In this instance, two men had been sent, and if we call for Peter, he will put out such women when he arrives. This is a most exercising matter, dear brethren, to know if we are perfectly content with a kind of religious sentimentality, without having the presence of the Spirit of God.

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Let us now see what happens. In speaking of what Peter did to the woman, we must not forget that when Dorcas died, she had been washed and put in the upper room. I think the washing implies what is spiritual, something which was necessary in spite of her good works and alms-deeds; there is a spiritual suggestion too, in the fact that they put her in the upper room. Then Peter "putting them all out, and kneeling down, prayed": the fact that he knelt down is important, as indicating deep exercise. The Lord knelt down in Gethsemane, and Paul said, "I bow my knees to the Father", Ephesians 3:14. If we become aware of such spiritual weakness amongst us, the way to overcome it is here indicated. He prayed, and turned to the body, as if the Lord would say to each of us, 'I am thinking of your body as of each of my members, and it is to be a living vessel'. It is important that our bodies should be for the Lord; we are told in Corinthians that our bodies are the members of Christ; you can understand the meaning of that. Peter then, turning to the body, said, "Tabitha". The Lord was calling her by name, as if to say, 'I want you, no longer for making clothes for the needy, but as a vessel to serve Me, and to express Me in your body'. "Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes". The Lord would like to open our eyes in order that we might see what it is to be a member of Christ in this town, to express Christ.

She opened her eyes and saw Peter; what a good thing that she did not see the women weeping, which would have reminded her of time past. Great importance attaches to what our eyes see in such circumstances. "Seeing Peter, sat up": there is joy in her. We can say that she heard her name. She saw Peter, and sat up; she is now spiritually alive, and would become in her body down here a vessel for the expression of what is of Christ. In Colossians 2:12,13, we have been "raised with him ... quickened together with him" in order that there might be in us an expression

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of the new man. Then "having given her his hand, he raised her up, and having called the saints and the widows, presented her living". The widows are called in to see a living Tabitha.

The Lord's thought now is that we should be living persons, that we should be presented as living in a spiritual sense. May the Lord bless the word!

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CONDITIONS FOR ASSEMBLY GROWTH

Acts 2:42 - 47; Acts 5:11 - 14; Acts 11:19 - 24

These scriptures show the conditions in which the Lord could add at the beginning of the assembly's history. I would remark also in this connection that Joseph's name means 'He will add' (Genesis 30:24).

Joseph was the last but one of Jacob's sons, which is very significant as connected with the subject we now have before us; His mother had desired a son for a long time, so, when he was born, she called his name Joseph, saying that God would add another son. Joseph is a type of Christ, and when he was born his father determined to leave Padan-Aram where, far from his own father and his kindred, he had been for twenty years, like so many christians today who are far from the place of their privilege. But God, in His own time, causes the light of Christ to shine into their soul and causes them to begin to think about leaving the world and its associations. Then, when the one is born who typifies Christ, Jacob leaves Padan-Aram and returns to the land of Canaan, and Joseph's mother says, "Jehovah will add to me another son". It was not a matter of adding glory in the land of Padan-Aram, but "another son" with no link at all with that place, so, in actual fact, Benjamin was born in Canaan. Rachel's remark involves the thought of a perfect number, Benjamin being the twelfth.

It is now the time of addition, not according to what man can do but according to what the Lord can do. The first addition in the book of the Acts was about three thousand souls; a very great number for the city of Jerusalem. "There were added in that day about three thousand souls" (Acts 2:41); it does not say to what they were added for, in truth, there is no need; there was nothing at Jerusalem except the 120 to whom the Spirit had been given. By one preaching full of power, about three thousand souls were added, and there was

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great joy in heaven; since that time such a number has perhaps never been added in one day. We then find a description of these persons in whom was a sound work of God, a work proved in the following verses where we see that these converts were truly committed to the maintenance of the truth. "All that believed were together, and had all things common, and sold their possessions and substance, and distributed them to all, according as any one might have need. And every day, being constantly in the temple with one accord, and breaking bread in the house, they received their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God, and having favour with all the people". How stimulating it is, dear brethren, to dwell upon these details recorded for us by the Holy Spirit. They are preserved to us partly to justify what the Lord was doing in adding. It is a question of the state of things amongst the saints, a state that can be added to; certainly we cannot think of numbers such as those we have here, but we should see that such conditions exist so that there may be addition.

"They persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers". The breaking of bread and prayers would lack moral power if the apostles' authority was not recognised. Without the recognition of this authority, we cannot have the breaking of bread, nor will our prayers be acceptable to God. Besides this, there were proofs of love amongst the saints; the one hundred and twenty believers were together in one place. I do not think that the three thousand could have been together in one place in Jerusalem, except perhaps in the open air, but they were together in thought and affection, and if the occasion offered, they were literally together. The doors of saints' houses were continually open to the saints and to the Lord, which was not so later at Laodicea, where the Lord had to say, "Behold, I stand at the door and am knocking", Revelation 3:20. The doors were open to

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the Lord Jesus (it is understood that I am speaking in a spiritual sense) for the Lord said, "I will not leave you orphans", John 14:18.

They broke bread in the house, not in large halls. I have no doubt that there were a hundred houses in Jerusalem where the breaking of bread took place. What a happy state of things for Jerusalem; possibly there was not a street where one could not find a house in which to break bread. Three or four thousand saints, what power at Jerusalem! All that is recorded to confirm the fact that the Lord added, of course, to the assembly. His assembly, that which corresponded to Himself, really existed in Jerusalem. Some weeks before, He had been crucified, but God placed in that city this marvellous testimony, and added daily to the assembly those that were to be saved. I am speaking of the conditions which justified the Lord in what He was doing there; if these conditions exist in some measure today, we can count on Him to act in the same way now.

In chapter 5, we have the terrible sin of Ananias; the enemy evidently had in mind to break up and corrupt what was set up in chapter 2. Two persons, Ananias and Sapphira, agreed together to lie to the Lord, to lie to the apostles, to lie to the Spirit of God; not that they intended to do so, but that was in fact what they did; they wished to be well thought of. Barnabas had sold land and had laid the money at the feet of the apostles, a gesture of pure and holy love, performed by a just man who was filled with the Spirit, his name, Barnabas, meaning "Son of consolation". What a fine thing for a brother or sister to be a consolation. Ananias and Sapphira wanted to imitate Barnabas, in order to be distinguished amongst the brethren, and we all know how we often love to be distinguished in some way or other. Outwardly they appeared to act like Barnabas, yet they had put aside for themselves a part of the price; they were not sincere and had to come under God's discipline for it. I should say that they were real

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believers, because they were buried with care, but they portray the most extreme severity of discipline. "On this account many among you are weak and infirm, and a good many are fallen asleep", 1 Corinthians 11:30. There is such a thing as a "sin unto death", and the death of Ananias and Sapphira precedes what is found in the verses read, showing how addition is the result of discipline. To add to a meeting, where discipline is not maintained, is to add to the confusion.

"And great fear came upon all the assembly, and upon all who heard these things. And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders done among the people (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch)". This allusion has a spiritual meaning, as, under Solomon's rule, there was a porch for judgment. We have here the sense of the fear of God in a place where judgment had been carried out, hence additions are made to the Lord now: "Believers were more than ever added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women". It might be thought that if we maintain discipline, our numbers would be reduced, but it is exactly the reverse, for men and women were added. The great thing is to maintain discipline, then God will add. If we just join the brethren, we shall either corrupt them or will leave them again, but if we are added to the Lord, we are added to what the Lord's authority involves; that is, discipline.

In chapter 11 we are told that the saints were scattered abroad from the time of Stephen's martyrdom, but the scattering was to be for the furtherance of the work of God. He allows persecution to advance His own work. Beloved brethren, if persecution does not arise, we may rest assured that things are not going on well, for the enemy will not fail to persecute what is of God, but persecution helps, and does not hinder, the work of God. "They then who had been scattered abroad ... passed through the country to Phoenicia and Cyprus and Antioch, speaking the word to no one but to Jews

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alone". They were limited by legality up to this point but God had already opened the door, and the time had come to preach to the gentiles. These christians spoke to the Jews only, forgetting that God had opened the door to the gentiles, and the Holy Spirit had descended upon them. We should be on our guard against legality, and should not ignore ways that God may open up for us. "But there were certain of them, Cyprians and Cyrenians, who entering into Antioch spoke to the Greeks also, announcing the glad tidings of the Lord Jesus". It does not seem that these men had received special orders, more than the others to do so, but what they did, indicates that they had keener instincts as to what related to the present moment, and they broke through legal restraints, preaching to the Greeks also, and the Lord's hand was with them. Who can say 'No', when the Lord says 'Yes'; "And a great number believed and turned to the Lord".

I would like to say a few words on the way the assembly in Jerusalem showed its interest by sending Barnabas. God awakens general interest among the saints, all who love the Lord rejoice in the work of God, whether it is evident here or in other countries. Our interest is awakened by what we hear; if I do not hear about what is happening universally, it is because my ears are not opened.

So Barnabas is sent to Antioch; this being another feature which assures that the Lord will add; a complete absence of legality, and instinct which discerns the occasion, the Lord's hand being with them. Barnabas, a brother qualified for the work before him, came to Antioch. What a need there is of a brother or of several brothers to lead and to act. Those who were preaching to the Greeks were accomplishing something, so Barnabas came to them, a good man filled with spiritual power, such as is perhaps rarely found, and he exhorted them with purpose of heart to abide with the Lord, and "a large crowd of people were added to the Lord".

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THE SUPPLY OF THE SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST (1)

Acts 16:6 - 34

J.T. The setting of the work at Philippi as given in Acts 16 helps in the understanding of what God effected there. First we see the care exercised by the Lord and by the Spirit, so that Paul should reach Philippi and begin his work in Europe in that city. Chapter 15 shows the pernicious influence of the spirit of judaism, and the detachment of Barnabas and others from the apostle Paul. A taint of judaism -- in John Mark, at least -- accompanied him in the earlier service recorded in chapters 13 and 14, and he is now free from this. The spirit of judaism became manifest and was dealt with at Jerusalem and Antioch. If a given form of evil as affecting the saints is exposed, it must be taken account of and avoided. Barnabas became detached from Paul; he had been a co-labourer and had served well, but the sequel showed that he came somewhat under the influence of Jerusalem and natural relationship; so Paul chose Silas, and finding Timotheus, took him also, so that he has now congenial companionship -- an important matter in the service of God. Indeed, it is stated in chapter 18 that he waited in Corinth until Timotheus and Silas came down. It says, "And when both Silas and Timotheus came down from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in respect of the word, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ" (verse 5). That is, their presence affected him; he was pressed because they were present, as if he waited for the companionship that would help in the great undertaking at Corinth; he has these two here. We have the general statement of his ministry in verses 1 to 5, and how the assemblies increased every

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day, showing that the testimony is now under favourable circumstances; there is great care on the part of the Spirit, and the Lord, too, to see that Paul should arrive at Philippi.

Philippi seems to have been singled out as the centre of this fresh service; it was peculiarly Roman, peculiarly European; it is said to have been a Roman colony. These colonies were so constituted that they were an integral part of the capital, the citizens having the same rights as those at Rome. They say, "... being Romans". Then it would appear that there was no synagogue in the city, nor are there any Jews mentioned in the place. There were certain women who met for prayer outside the city by the river, but they were not properly representative of judaism; they rather represented the kind of material available, that there might be a pure state of things, that the testimony in Europe should be pure and free from Jewish admixture. There is no evidence of the presence of a synagogue, and hence no hereditary religious influence to be contended with. All that has a bearing on our own times in which hereditary religious influence has such a place, as in this country especially. Most of us have known it, and a considerable amount of it has been carried into the present work of God, and has a place in our meetings. It is for us all to take note of whatever has been exposed, and avoid it. With what has been said in mind, we can see that Philippi as a field was carefully selected by the Spirit. The facts given relative to Philippi indicate that God intended that the work there should be free from the character of the flesh seen in judaism. The epistle shows that it was pure; the state of things there enabled the apostle to write such a unique letter; we might call it a characteristic love-letter from the apostle to those who were the result of his work in this particular city.

W.J.H. Would not the presence of Luke also with Paul -- included in the "we" of the chapter -- confirm that he was free of Jewish influences?

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J.T. That helps. The general mention of these brethren shows that they were congenial companions -- a very important thing in the service of the Lord, as remarked.

Eu.R. Would the "Spirit of Jesus" stand in contrast to the Jewish spirit you spoke of, and was Paul now free, as possessing it? It says, "the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them".

J.T. Yes; the Spirit of Jesus is what we get in the gospels; by it he encountered this terrible judaising influence. John especially mentions the Jews, in view of the last days, and the danger there is in that element. The Spirit of Jesus had in mind that the work in Europe should be free of it. We know there has been a development of this terrible thing in Europe as nowhere else, but still, the Spirit of God had taken precaution against it.

Ques. Would Silas be one who had turned his back upon it, and was a fit companion for Paul?

J.T. Quite so; he was free of it, and if any feature of evil has been at work and exposed, it is incumbent upon us to use all possible means to avoid it. God helps us by exposing any feature of evil, and chapter 15 shows how the character of judaism was exposed and judged.

Rem. The spirit of Python, another character of evil, is put in contrast to the Spirit of Jesus.

J.T. Taking on a religious character: "These men are bondmen of the Most High God". Judaism is a link with the past, having the glamour of antiquity. The Spirit of Jesus would be used against that. The book of Acts throughout shows how specious the influence of judaism is, and how we should use every means to avoid it.

J.T.S. Would the exposure of Babylon in Revelation 18 have its place similarly, as preceding the word, "Come out of her, my people, that ye have not fellowship in her sins"?

J.T. Yes. The whole book of Revelation is for us; each assembly in Asia received it. The exposure of

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Babylon has a great place in it and is an immense advantage to us. Indeed it is said, "God has judged your judgment upon her". The book is intended for the saints in our time, so that they may come out of her and be clear of her: "Come out of her, my people, that ye have not fellowship in her sins"; much is said of Babylon in the book. It is said that she had fallen and had become something else (Revelation 18:2) -- that is the present moment.

W.S.S. With regard to the thought of the Spirit of Jesus, is it subjection to the Spirit of that Man that would give prosperity to the service?

J.T. It comes out in the epistle: "the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ", Philippians 1:19. That is what is needed, and what we shall see is important in the epistle. It appears here as bearing on judaism: "the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them", as if there was deep feeling there, and that the work should be carried on in suitable soil, free from Jewish influences.

Rem. The persons mentioned here -- the "we" -- would all be expressive of the Spirit of Jesus.

J.T. If you had met those men on the road you would have been affected by their manner and by their conversation with one another. How lovely it would be to have part with Paul and Silas and Timotheus and Luke in a conversation! What an influence they would exert on our spirits, and that was to permeate the converts at Philippi. The "Spirit of Jesus" was most severely tested in Paul and Silas in the prison. The first man converted in Philippi was brought into the presence of it: "Do thyself no harm, for we are all here". That brother would never forget the grace conveyed in that; it would affect him in having part in care meetings and administrative matters among the saints.

H.E.S. Does the work of evil always connect either with what is past or what is future, to exclude what is particularly for the present?

J.T. Quite so, for the present is the test, and the

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present was embodied in these men, Paul and Silas and Timotheus, and the others with them, in the "we".

W.J.H. Have you any thought why this opposition is expressed in a female slave?

J.T. Lydia is mentioned before her. It is remarkable that the work of God is first seen here in a female and a business woman. Then the enemy makes this attack through a person employed for gain in the capacity of a slave; but in contrast to her, as I said, is Lydia, who was a business woman, a woman of affairs, called "a seller of purple", and who as we are told, attended "to the things spoken by Paul", meaning that she discerned Paul as the man whom the Lord was specially using. No doubt she listened to the others, but she attended to what Paul said, and I think she represents the character of the material in view in this work. The devil, in the slave, sought to occupy men with the future, a remarkable kind of attempt to set aside what God was doing in the present.

J.S-t. Have you in mind that, being a business woman, she would listen to what Paul was saying with attentiveness and exactness?

J.T. That is right. God selects His soil. If He works in a great industrial centre, He has the background in mind; what people are. All that comes under His government; nothing happens without it, and if a sparrow does not fall to the ground without Him, a young man's employment and his ancestry are important to Him; all that is under God, and nothing is without Him. People in business as a rule have to be careful and attentive. It is well to carry that forward; it is a right principle.

Eu.R. Is this attitude towards Paul's ministry similar to the attitude of Mary in Luke 10?

J.T. Very similar. Mary, you will remember, assumes that attitude after the voice from heaven which said, "hear him". It is not, of course, that she heard that said on the mount, but she was in keeping with it,

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and here Lydia discerned that Paul was the vessel to be listened to, and she attended to the things spoken by him.

J.J. Are the women here like the women in 2 Timothy, representing the unofficial side?

J.T. Yes; one of them, Timothy's mother, is mentioned in our chapter. Women give body to what is being done -- and they have special absorbing power.

W.S.S. Does the word "concluding" in verse 10 refer to the intelligence that marked these servants?

J.T. Yes. The word to go there was not specific; it was not that the Lord appeared to them, for it says, "There was a certain Macedonian man, standing and beseeching him, and saying, Pass over into Macedonia and help us. And when he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go forth to Macedonia, concluding that the Lord had called us to announce to them the glad tidings". "We ... concluding" would show that they took counsel. The apostle was not above that, though it must not be assumed that a servant should consult his brethren as to his movements. He may do it, as seen here, but he moves as the Lord directs him. Of course, those consulted here were travelling with Paul, and I am sure he greatly valued the presence of these men so that the conclusion is in the plural, but the vision was to him alone. It was not the Lord saying, Go; it was someone saying, Come. It was the expression of need, but the conclusion was that the Lord "had called us", showing that we have to notice certain occurrences, and the spiritual discern whether the Lord is in them.

W.S.S. Do not the subsequent events, and the whole history of the testimony in Europe, show how right the judgment was?

J.T. Exactly. It brings out the need in our service to be much before the Lord, and sensitive as to occurrences, whether the Lord has anything in them.

F.C.H. Have you any thought why Lydia is from

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Thyatira? Is it that she is separate from the religious influence that afterwards comes out?

J.T. There is one thing to be said as to that, as well as the slave, that Paul was greatly tested, which is an important thing in our service. If we are to be used we shall be tested as to our conclusions, whether they are really right. It is a wholesome thing to be tested. He had concluded that the Lord had called him there, and now he is there, and there is not a man in sight. Did we make a mistake? That is a wholesome inquiry. The female slave "having followed Paul and us, cried saying, These men are bondmen of the Most High God, who announce to you the way of salvation. And this she did many days". Every levitical instinct in the apostle would be challenged. Did I discern rightly? Should I have come here? There is no such result as might be expected. Well, there is this dear sister Lydia, but she is of Thyatira. He might have had that kind of material without crossing over into Europe. That is to say, the external facts seemed to contradict the conclusion arrived at, and that was important. Every one is tested in that way, for it is not the Lord's way to make the way so plain that you do not have to be exercised at all. You must be exercised about things, and so whilst she is an excellent result of his labours and service, she is not a Philippian, she is not a Roman; she belongs to Asia.

Ques. Do you think the purple being connected with Thyatira in any way supposes the great ecclesiastical purple to be overthrown, as well as the imperial purple in the end of the chapter?

J.T. That may be. It was a city marked by this industry. There may be a hidden allusion to the glory of the world which developed in the assembly at Thyatira. She is not marked by that; she is, as it were, a remnant out of that, a bright testimony to the work of God, material suitable for the work that is in mind here.

E.J.McB. Do you think perhaps the question might

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be raised with us whether we have the spiritual energy to go on till men are secured?

J.T. You cannot have the assembly without men. I think that is an axiom we may accept. We value the sisters, of course, but Luke's way is the man first, then the woman, and then the girl (Luke 8). His material is a man released from satanic power, clothed and sitting at the feet of Jesus, and we must look for that in all assembly formation. Then we have the woman, and lastly the girl; these represent suitable component elements in an assembly. It must have been a great test to the apostle who so discerned everything, that after all this care there was no man -- one notable woman, but no man. This young woman following them was like the devil jeering at them; he knew enough of what was going on in Paul's mind, and was saying, as it were, This is what you are getting, which is not your objective.

E.B.G. Would what the female slave said be in the nature of a corrupting challenge to the purity of the work of God there? The challenge is taken up by God and answered by the establishment of an assembly at Philippi bearing the features of salvation of which the slave had spoken.

J.T. That is a very instructive suggestion. "These men are bondmen of the Most High God": think of that being said by a girl possessed by the spirit of Python! How corrupting that spirit was, and how Paul felt it! But the exercise had to be gone through, and he went through it. It was not until "many days" that the apostle turns round and rebukes the demon, and then there is this great result. There was, perhaps, no assembly like it in purity and the continuance of what was according to God, as seen in the epistle. Its foundation was laid in suffering, the Spirit of Jesus tested out in these men was victorious, so that the man is found, and he shines in what he does.

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H.H. The vision would have sustained Paul until he found the man.

J.T. Yes, and Lydia would be a constant cheer, but Satan's bitter cold wind would affect him, coming day after day, and felt by the apostle as no one else could feel it; he knew the enemy was aiming at him. The vision must have sustained Paul in the ordeal, but then the Lord had not told him to go to Macedonia; it was his own conclusion based on the vision, and he must have been greatly exercised as to the correctness of this. The Lord allowed the devil to challenge him every day in this way so that he should be affected by it.

Ques. After "concluding" that the Lord had called them to announce the glad tidings, it goes on to say, "we went in a straight course to Samothracia, and on the morrow to Neapolis, and thence to Philippi". Is that a spiritual suggestion?

J.T. It was very defined. It is an important thing in service that we go straight forward according to the light we have, that our course is not zig-zag.

Ques. Does the fact of their going to prayer imply that the spirit of prayer was fundamental with the apostle and those with him, and that it was contributory in a marked way to what was developed subsequently at Philippi?

J.T. It is a positive feature of the position, the spirit of prayer and the place of prayer by the river outside the city. It was like a tree planted by the river, taking root downwards in prayer and so watered, but in the process there was this terrible attack of the devil, and that is what I think we should notice because we find it in our service more or less, and we are tested. The devil was aiming at Paul; he knew what Paul would be thinking in regard of the vision, and hence this harrowing action by this female slave every day.

D.L.H. Is it not noticeable that in the epistle to the Philippians Paul and Timotheus are referred to as "bondmen of Jesus Christ"? If the enemy had a

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bond-servant to do his work, the Lord Jesus had His bondmen to do His.

J.T. How perfectly that is demonstrated in what follows! They were the bondmen of Jesus Christ; the present is the time of bondmanship -- indeed, the book of Revelation is on that ground -- and they were set for the present work of God. It is a question of the "present truth", as Peter says, they were set for that. Satan would connect their mission with the future. Judaism would connect you with the past, and this attack of the devil through this girl pointed to the future, but the apostle and those with him kept to the present.

Eu.R. Do you think the jailor at Philippi would correspond with the man possessed of the demon in Luke 8, when sitting at the feet of Jesus? This triumph at Philippi is very similar to the Lord's triumph in that man.

J.T. It is said that they came out to see Jesus, and found the man. That was the point, they saw the man, and the apostle in all he was doing would be thinking of the man. Where is the man? "They went out to see what had happened, and came to Jesus, and found the man from whom the demon had gone out, sitting, clothed and sensible, at the feet of Jesus".

Ques. Why does Paul, when rebuking, address himself to the spirit in the female slave?

J.T. It is Satan's work; the thing is of the devil; the slave was but an instrument. The apostle carried on his warfare not with flesh and blood; it was a spiritual matter. It is a question of what is behind; the matter is of the devil.

J.J. Does not the passage in 1 Samuel 28 show that the enemy is completely under control? The woman there with the spirit of Python was actually used to bring up Samuel.

J.T. Quite so, and God can even take up Balaam, an agent of the devil, and use him. But that does not

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appear here; the apostle deals directly with the demon. In the case of Barjesus, chapter 13, he spoke to the man; he was a type of the Jews, and so the judgment was "for a season". Paul is not aiming at rescuing this poor thing from the power of the demon, but defeating the devil. There is no evidence of any moral effect in the girl.

H.M.S. Would you say a little more fully why the devil makes so much of the way of salvation -- a most desirable thing, but what we might have thought he would do his best to hinder?

J.T. He sought to corrupt the word of God, to connect the idea of salvation with the Most High God, with the future. The truth of the gospel was darkened by it. The jailor says, "What must I do that I may be saved?" and the answer is, "Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house". That is the gospel, but what this person was saying was darkening and confusing. There is much of this abroad in christendom today.

Ques. Was not salvation seen in these men in the path of suffering?

J.T. When the time of the Most High God arrives, salvation will take on a different character; the world will be literally overthrown and Satan bound; there will be no suffering there. The enemy was endeavouring to divert from the character of the ministry of the gospel and of what salvation means, now. The world externally is not altered at all, yet here are persons entirely free of it, even though their feet are fast in the stocks, their spirits are in the liberty of the salvation that is in Christ Jesus. That is the character of the moment. The Philippian colonists here are Romans exercising the power of Rome, and they use it remorselessly against those men without any good reason at all, and the salvation Paul and Silas are presenting is exemplified in themselves in those circumstances.

H.D'A.C. In these days, the sacred words and

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thoughts that God has given us are being worked into systems which divert altogether from the truth. They take up our words and seek to work them into their own systems in order to draw people into what is false.

J.T. That is right. Spiritual ministry is sometimes sought after and read and used in connection with human systems, which really means corrupting the word of God. Not that we grudge any of our brethren or anyone else reading anything we have that is of God, but how is it used? It really is largely corrupted, because used in relation to human systems. The Lord speaks of the word of God being made void by traditional teaching.

W.L. Do you see the same corrupting influences at work in the Corinthians and Galatians? The Galatians were going back to a previous dispensation, and the Corinthians were looking on to a coming one, reigning as kings, and both were losing the gain of the present moment.

J.T. Paul in that very setting calls attention to what the apostles were: "God has set us the apostles for the last, as appointed to death", 1 Corinthians 4:9. Persecuted they were, as the offscouring of the world. That is the present position; the truth and those who faithfully hold and maintain it are in that setting; it is exemplified here in these servants, the salvation of God shines in the very prison.

Rem. So the evil spirit drew attention to the servants in a falsifying way, but Lydia attended to what Paul said.

J.T. There is a good deal said about ministry at the present time, but in many cases it is not attended to; indeed it is refused in practice, and yet the ministers are well spoken of. There is a good deal of that and the effect is to discredit and to neutralise the truth.

Rem. The apostle takes up the challenge in the name of Jesus Christ; he says nothing of the term "Most High God".

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J.T. Quite so; he brings in the present truth. The jailor was not calling attention to the servants, but to himself and his need. He needed the gospel, and he got it: "Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house". There is no thought at all of changing things externally, but changing him and his house, and that is what happened. The Spirit of God does not finish until He shows you the man and his house, changed and in salvation. He says of him: "And they spoke to him the word of the Lord, with all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed them from their stripes; and was baptised, he and all his straightway. And having brought them into his house he laid the table for them, and rejoiced with all his house, having believed in God". That is to say, the servants are seeing and participating in the result of their testimony, in this man and in his house.

F.G.W. Would you connect religious sentiment with judaism, and human sentiment with the female slave, but christianity in Philippians giving us spiritual sentiment?

J.T. Yes. The Spirit would direct our view to Paul and Silas in the prison, and what a testimony they were to the salvation they spoke of; we have a man and his house, and he washes them from their stripes; that is, he has tender sensibilities now -- the Spirit of Jesus -- and he lays the table for them. Besides the salvation enjoyed, we have the further important thought established that the household of the christian is to be marked by hospitality.

F.I. Why is it that having secured the man in the jailor, when they are set free, they go back to the house of Lydia?

J.T. That would be to call attention to her. They go to Lydia -- "having gone out of the prison, they came to Lydia", calling attention to the great result in her. What sympathy she would have for them!

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-- and what enjoyment and restfulness they would have in her house! It was not just to help her, but that they had certain compensation in a person of this kind such a result of the testimony, for surely the servants of God should have such. The epistle shows how the apostle found this at Philippi.

H.H. There were good foundations in the believer's house. The foundations of the prison had been shaken, but there were good foundations laid in the house of the jailor.

J.T. That is what you see. You have the man, and he is shining, not yet in the assembly, but in his house; he laid the table for them. You have the man and his house which, we may say, is the point in the chapter. It is the complete result of the gospel as presented to the jailor.

C.W.D. In the combination of the two, the man and the woman -- the jailor and Lydia -- have you the two essential elements for the assembly there?

J.T. Yes; and the household is clearly in mind from this chapter onwards, and I believe the Lord intended it, particularly in Europe; I have no doubt it prepared for the development of the assembly in full result. That is, in the continuance of it, God intended Europe as a field for it. In contrast to polygamy, that was so general in Asia, monogamy tended to make the West a suitable part for the testimony. God takes account of the conditions in any field where He may be pleased to work. So you see in this case the man rejoiced householdwise; the salvation was complete in regard of himself and his house.

Ques. What is involved in the jailor "having believed in God"?

J.T. The apostle did not speak to him at first about God; he spoke to him about the Lord Jesus, but it is a beautiful tribute to the work of God in the man's soul that he understands that God was included in the testimony presented to him. "They spoke to him the

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word of the Lord", but he understands, he arrives at this thought, that although the gospel was presented in Jesus, God was presented to him. That is the point. In Luke 8, Jesus said to the man out of whom the demons were cast, "Return to thine house and relate how great things God has done for thee", but he spoke of Jesus, "how great things Jesus had done for him". I do not think there is the least suggestion of disobedience in what he did, but the instinct that goes with the work of God, that though it is through Jesus, yet God Himself is working.

J.J. Would you say that the jailor is in the spirit of the women in the beginning of Luke 8? It is said that they "ministered to him of their substance", and is he not doing that here?

J.T. Quite so; what the women did was cumulative of what had preceded in the gospel. Chapter 7 is the end of a series of instruction, and it is not without result. Hence the Lord has the twelve and the women, and they "ministered to him of their substance". So the testimony in Luke 8 is founded on that. The assembly in its external formation is in view in that chapter.

E.G. Paul says, "Do thyself no harm, for we are all here", and then the jailor says, "Sirs, what must I do that I may be saved?" The jailor received the benefit of that beautiful spirit and the congenial companionship seen in those men. Paul does not say, I am here, but "we are all here".

J.T. The jailor would prove what that "we" meant, what those men were, and he would have pleasure in their company and presence in his house.

F.G.M. You have spoken of the importance of the man in relation to the position of the assembly -- how is it the woman is brought to light first here?

J.T. As we were saying, Paul was tested as to the non-appearance of a man. Lydia was connected with what was in Philippi before he came -- the women who

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met for prayer -- and could not be regarded as wholly the result of Paul's work. The jailor was, and properly answers to the vision. Could the apostle have conceived he would find him in this way? He was the most unexpected man. It is a remarkable testimony of the power of the gospel that the man who had caused him so much suffering was the one really in mind; and now he is possessed of the Spirit of Jesus. Although Lydia comes first, she and her house and the jailor and his house form the nucleus needed for the assembly at Philippi.

M.W.B. You have referred to the importance of the household: in what relation does the christian household stand to the assembly?

J.T. It is the sphere of the hospitality of love, as we have seen. This feature is seen in both Lydia's house and the jailor's. Another important thing is that children brought up in it develop and graduate into the assembly. The parents have no other thought or ambition for them than the assembly. What can I desire better for them than that, and all the early training would have that in mind. I believe that is what is in mind here.

A.A.E. In the last verse, we read that Paul "having seen the brethren". Who are those brethren?

J.T. It is a term of relationship in keeping with the whole position. Lydia is in the relation mentioned. The result of the testimony would be wanting without the thought of brethren, and of course there were those so regarded. Luke, and perhaps others of Paul's company, might be included.

F.I. Does not Lydia afford conditions for such, in receiving into her house the great apostle of the assembly and those with him? She says, "If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord". Has not the household to be in accord with the Lord before it can be a support to the assembly?

J.T. Yes. And what is stated of her shows how

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deeply the divine thought had entered into her soul, and brings out what her household was. We must keep her in mind, but you cannot have the assembly without the man. Sisters alone would not be sufficient for the assembly; you must have the man, and now we have him, and his house. Lydia, as attending to the things spoken by Paul, represents the subjective side that shone so beautifully in this assembly, as seen in the epistle. The apostle and Silas went to her: "they came to Lydia". That is a tribute to her, what she was in their minds.

H.E.S. Do we get normal christianity in Philippians, and are all these exercises and conditions at Philippi necessary before we can have it?

J.T. That is what I had in mind at the outset in proposing this chapter first, that we might see the soil in which God worked in order to bring this about.

Ques. Paul, speaking to the jailor, says, "Believe on the Lord Jesus"; he uses the name by which He is cherished in the assembly. Is not that reflected in the epistle, in chapter 2 particularly?

J.T. Yes. It is worked out in the epistle. "The Lord Jesus" is an affectionate, respectful appellation by which we should speak of Him. "No one can say, Lord Jesus, unless in the power of the Holy Spirit", 1 Corinthians 12:3. That name is so cherished, that it ought to be said in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Eu.R. Is baptism foundational in that way, involving the recognition of the rights of the Lord? This was seen in Lydia and the jailor, and put them together in fellowship.

J.T. You can see that is how the truth presented worked out. What is set before us here does not go beyond the kingdom and the brethren, and, of course, there is thus the basis of the assembly. During the apostle's later visit or visits, the truth relative to the assembly would, no doubt, be developed at Philippi.

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Eu.R. Paul speaks in the epistle of their "fellowship with the gospel, from the first day", Philippians 1:5.

J.T. Quite so, and they were in the kingdom. John says that Jesus Christ has "made us a kingdom", Revelation 1:6. The magistrates at Philippi expressed what they were; they represented Rome, but a kingdom was seen in Paul and those with him, which Lydia and her house and the jailor and his came into; all the power of God was behind them. The believer's household belongs to the kingdom and there is power there.

H.H. There was "purple" in the true sense in Lydia's house.

J.T. Yes, in the sense of moral dignity and suffering. There would be practical righteousness, too. She would give true measure in delivering her sales, and she would fulfil her obligations. A specially important matter at the present time is the truth of the kingdom, and that I operate as in it, in all my affairs.

J.J. Would Paul going to Lydia be like Jesus going to the house of Martha and Mary?

J.T. Just so. Lydia represents intelligent spiritual affection, and there were, as you might say, tabernacle conditions in her house, because she attended to the things spoken by Paul.

Ques. Is this the good ground that brings forth an hundredfold, spoken of in Luke 8?

J.T. Yes, it is the full result.

H.M.S. Would you say a little about the final word of the jailor, "depart in peace"? A man converted from heathenism could speak of peace; he would understand "peace with God" and something of "the peace of God, which surpasses every understanding", Philippians 4:7.

J.T. Yes. He was now a son of peace; that is another feature in christianity.

E.B.G. It is said of the jailor that he "rejoiced with all his house". That early and bright beginning is continued in the epistle, the thought of joy being prominent there, just as in relation to the early movements at

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Ephesus, the thought of the Spirit is prominent and continued throughout the epistle to the Ephesians.

J.T. Yes. You can see how the Philippian epistle is characterised by joy -- a fine prospect for our readings. There is a certain buoyancy under all circumstances, and in no way better exemplified than in Paul and Silas in the prison. There are two great results from the testimony presented -- the jailor and his house are secured and the servants of Christ are released. Through the latter the work of God goes on. Paul and Silas see the brethren and go away -- to carry on the work elsewhere. Thus God made a way for His servants, leading them in triumph.

F.S.M. In the work at Philippi persons were laid hold of and liberated by the gospel, in contrast to Babylon trading in the bodies and souls of men. The work of God goes on to secure the persons, body and soul; from the persons, households are developed, and from the households, the assembly is formed. Is that the normal way?

J.T. Yes. Matthew's gospel unfolds the truth as to children in the sense you refer to. When the Lord arrived at the temple immediately before His death, the children in the temple were saying, "Hosanna to the Son of David". How did they come to that knowledge? The inference is that the children are brought up in these things, so that they are available for the praise and the service of God. In answer to the question of His enemies, "Hearest thou what these say?" the Lord said, "Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?" Matthew 21:15,16. It is what God does, and it is largely through household influence and instruction. The labours of parents should be with that end in view; and thus out of believers' households issue children grounded in the truth, not merely as having been segregated to learn the initial thoughts, but as accustomed to the greatest and most spiritual thoughts in christianity.

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They may not understand them, but they grow in them, and in that way they gradually come into fellowship, and when they come into fellowship, they are of value in the assembly and have part in the praise.

Rem. When Paul saw the brethren, their children if any, would be there (see Acts 21:5). Jairus' daughter in Luke 8 is raised into spiritual conditions and the Lord commanded that something be given her to eat.

J.T. That is important, and it certainly bears on what is before us. You will notice that the Lord says as to the woman in Luke 8 that "power has gone out from me", and He calls her "daughter". The idea is the body: "the body is of Christ", Colossians 2:17. The Lord is on the way to the child when He deals with the woman, showing how important the child is in His mind, and He says to Jairus, "Fear not: only believe". He had not forgotten the child in this great work that had been done in the woman, and when He came to the house He put out all who were deriding Him. The child died in that environment, at least her spirit had left her, and He puts them all out, and takes in Peter and John and James with the parents and He raises her up into such an atmosphere. The most spiritual suggestions are seen in His dealings with that girl. We have often spoken of it, but it is most important at the present time, for it reminds us that children are to be brought up in the most spiritual environment.

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THE SUPPLY OF THE SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST (2)

Philippians 1

J.T. This chapter, as will be observed, is divided carefully into subjects. As a whole, it suggests the intimacy of intelligence and affection that existed between the apostle and the Philippians, marking it off characteristically as a love epistle, one of personal feelings. We have first the apostle's opening address to them, then -- verses 3 to 8 -- his thoughts and feelings about them; then his prayer -- verses 9 to 11 -- then his own circumstances and personal exercises, beginning with verse 12, setting out the most exalted spiritual feelings and outlook, and finally, an exhortation to the Philippians as to their conduct and personal service. We remarked this morning that Paul and Timothy are here called "bondmen of Jesus Christ". Paul's apostleship is usually alluded to in his epistles, but here he simply styles himself and Timothy as "bondmen", showing that he aims at leaving out of sight the official side as much as possible, and at getting near to the brethren; an important motive in service, so that the served and those who serve are with each other in spirit.

M.W.B. Would you say a word as to why overseers and ministers are referred to?

J.T. There probably was a want of recognition of those servants in the assembly at Philippi, and their mention would indicate that it was well they should know that the apostle thought of them as distinct from the body of the saints.

M.W.B. Is it the more remarkable that he draws attention to those offices inasmuch as what is official is not prominent? The apostle, as you remarked, does not speak of himself as such.

J.T. It would seem there was in the assembly at

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Philippi a lack of the recognition of those who were over them, a very common thing, even amongst spiritual saints. We shall see in the body of the epistle that there was a certain cleavage, no doubt due to a lack of the recognition of those qualified to rule.

M.W.B. That is helpful. It is the more striking as such an address is wholly absent in the epistle to the Corinthians, for instance, where we might have expected it.

J.T. The state of the saints at Corinth was such that only apostolic authority could meet it. Here, the service of the overseers and ministers would be more or less owned, only there evidently was a lack in this respect, so that the apostle in mentioning them specifically, would give the generality of the saints to understand that he was thinking of those who had the rule over them.

W.J.H. On their side, do you think it would also help them to take special account of the epistle, that their oversight and service would have the spirit of the servant in it?

J.T. The epistle would challenge them in that respect.

W.B-w. What is implied in the apostle's word in chapter 4, "assist them, who have contended along with me in the glad tidings"?

J.T. That is addressed to the true yokefellow: "I ask thee also, true yokefellow" (Philippians 4:3): it was an injunction to the yokefellow, whoever he was, one who would understand what was needed. The idea of a yokefellow alludes to someone who had been linked up with the apostle; possibly Epaphroditus, who carried the epistle to Philippi and perhaps wrote it at the apostle's dictation.

Ques. Do you think we are in danger of disregarding those capable of oversight?

J.T. One observes even amongst spiritual saints that there is often a lack on certain points, and the

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epistles are largely intended to effect the promotion of an all-round growth according to what is presented in Christ. Overseership and deaconship being observed, where these services are manifest in persons who are carrying them on effectively, will greatly help in this growth in keeping with the general thought of God. Growth should be in a uniform way, that there should be no malformation, even in a modified degree.

D.L.H. The dissension between Euodia and Syntyche may be an indication that the work of the overseers and deacons had been somewhat neglected.

J.T. I think the epistle would bring out uniform growth, and that the will of God is intended not only to be submitted to, but to be expressed in the assembly. "It is God who works in you both the willing and the working according to his good pleasure", Philippians 2:3. God works in us for the working out of His will; that is, that the assembly is subject to the will of God not only in its members, but it is the vessel for the expression of that will in a positive way, and hence the need for uniform growth. The apostle had perfection in mind.

E.J.McB. Is that why there is no formal reference to the assembly, but to "the saints" that each one might yield his part in the perfection and unity of the whole?

J.T. Yes. The personal touch runs through, as if the apostle wished to convey that he knew and loved every one of them, but he knew them and loved them in relation to one another; he regarded them in that way.

H.E.S. Is it suggested that the irregularities in this epistle are special rather than general?

J.T. They are not characteristic. Some existed there, and evidently the apostle assumed that they could easily be adjusted. It is a beautiful piece of work he is dealing with, but with certain blemishes that can easily be rectified, and the recognition of the overseers and servants was essential to this. As Adam was given the garden to dress and to keep, so those offices were

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simply that the growth should be regular. Life is supposed in the epistle to be there in abundance, but the regulation of the growth was so essential.

Eu.R. Would the yield desired be at all suggested in Revelation 5? There are the four living creatures, suggesting the life, then the twenty-four elders, and then the bowls full of incenses, the prayers of the saints.

J.T. Just so. The elders in Revelation 4 and 5 are intended to convey intelligence as to the divine ideal, and the living creatures the idea of the development of life. So, when the living creatures glorify Him who sits on the throne the elders fall down and worship (Revelation 4:9 - 11). They always understand the position and give a reason for what they do. That is the element that runs through this epistle, because the element of life was there in abundance, but regulation was needed. Now at Corinth, although life was there, growth had almost stopped.

Ques. Has Paul their growth in mind in saying, "I thank my God for my whole remembrance of you"?

J.T. Yes. In the use of the words "whole remembrance" he is giving them full credit. In a general way there is nothing he can recall to cause him sorrow, so that he speaks about his "whole remembrance" of them, and then he adds, "constantly in my every supplication, making the supplication for you all with joy, because of your fellowship with the gospel, from the first day until now; having confidence of this very thing, that he who has begun in you a good work will complete it unto Jesus Christ's day". You will observe the fulness of his thoughts in the words "whole remembrance" and "every supplication", and their continuance "from the first day until now". In a general way the growth was pleasing to him, but there were certain discrepancies which he assumes can be rectified. The work was begun by God, and will be completed "unto Jesus Christ's day"; in this sense that will be the end.

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He has completion in mind and the perfecting of the saints; so that what God had begun He would finish, not here for Jesus Christ's day, but unto it, that the whole time until then would be filled out with the perfecting of the saints.

F.C.H. Does "fellowship with the gospel" involve being in the thing?

J.T. The word "fellowship" implies that they were partners with the gospel, and whether it means in their affections or their money or their sympathy, it was very genuine; it was "from the first day until now"; it was continuous, showing how the idea he had in mind was exemplified in them.

Ques. Would it involve suffering and reproach?

J.T. It does. It says in verse 7, "because ye have me in your hearts, and that both in my bonds and in the defence and confirmation of the glad tidings ye are all participators in my grace". It is quite obvious that he regarded them as full partners in what he was carrying an, a very great matter in the thought of service.

Ques. Would his "defence and confirmation of the glad tidings" be before Nero?

J.T. It would include that, no doubt. I suppose he was about to appear before him, or perhaps had done so, but I think it would go further than that. In whatever way the apostle contended for the gospel, they were with him in it. He had such a place in their hearts that they were with him in everything in which he was engaged. The gospel is a complete thought here. It is not called the gospel of God or of Christ, but "the gospel"; it stands out in its own magnificence, and the Philippian saints were sympathetically in it with the apostle. Mark speaks of it in almost a personal way, quoting the Lord as linking it with Himself: "for my sake and for the sake of the gospel", Mark 10:29. I think we ought to learn to look at it in that way, in its own magnificence.

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H.H. We have it in Acts 16, the gospel in the prison. This epistle is really the bringing forward of the jailor as to what he represents, and dressing him in all the precious features of the truth.

J.T. Yes: "Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house". What the Spirit had in mind in Paul going to Philippi is seen here concretely. It is a beautiful thing, and Paul wants to make it more beautiful, so he says in his prayer: "that your love may abound yet more and more in full knowledge and all intelligence, that ye may judge of and approve the things that are more excellent, in order that ye may be pure and without offence for Christ's day". Notice, it is not "unto" here, as earlier, but "for", that is, the time of display; that the beautiful result he had here before him should be still more beautiful, entirely according to the divine mind; as the fruit of Paul's service in Philippi.

J.S-t. Would you say that the thought of completion is very marked in Philippians in contrast to Sardis, where it says, "I have not found thy works complete", Revelation 3:2? Is there a connection between that and the definite way Lydia gave attention "to the things spoken by Paul"?

J.T. Yes. God works in us in relation to what He presents, as we receive it. The apostle, referring to the gospel, said to those at Corinth, "which also ye received" (1 Corinthians 15:1), they received the divine testimony and God worked according to that. In the first section, you will observe it is "unto Jesus Christ's day", but then, in verse 10 it is "for Christ's day", that is, the work goes on now, but the time of display will be in the actual day, the coming day. The addition of "Jesus" in the expression "Jesus Christ's day" (verse 6), would bring in the personal touch, as is noticeable in this epistle. There is what is unto it and what is for it. The operations go on unto it, but then there is the day when things will be displayed.

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Eu.R. Is this knowledge and judgment and intelligence and approval important as the fruit of love in assembly relations?

J.T. This prayer is to be compared with the prayers in Colossians and Ephesians. Each prayer is in its own setting; this one alludes to refinement in the matters with which he is dealing, the beautiful result of his work. We should not rest in any point reached in our soul's history, but progress "more and more". The apostle's language refers to what is characteristically superlative. He says, "that ye may judge of and approve the things that are more excellent, in order that ye may be pure and without offence for Christ's day, being complete as regards the fruit of righteousness, which is by Jesus Christ, to God's glory and praise". These verses aim at refinement according to God, built up on what is already wonderful in itself.

E.J.McB. Is the idea in this epistle the beauty of the persons in detail, but looked at as linked together? In 2 Chronicles you have what David and Solomon constructed, and then the idea of what was wholly for God.

J.T. The apostle, I believe, is giving them to understand how he is acquainted with the saints at Philippi. He knows them personally, but in relation to one another, and as taken up in the divine mind for "Christ's day". If God has begun to work, from His side things will go on; there will be no cessation of God's operations; it will go on day and night "unto Jesus Christ's day", but then, it is also "for Christ's day"; for the day of display, and there is to be no discrepancy. That is what this prayer has in mind, and Christ is viewed as the instrument by which all will come to pass; it is "by Jesus Christ, to God's glory and praise".

God is operating, the Spirit is operating, and the saints themselves are operating in relation to one another, but Christ has the whole matter in hand, with a view to God's glory and praise. So that we have the

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most exalted and far-reaching thoughts in this prayer, God's glory and praise being the great end.

F.I. In the prayer, he takes them up on the ground of what he says in verse 7: "because ye have me in your hearts". They were going on with the truth, but in personal attachment to the apostle.

J.T. Yes. They were in fellowship with him as faithfully maintaining the truth, and because of his personal place in their affections. No doubt Peter had a place with them; but he does not speak of that, nor of their general interest in the gospel of others, but in his service; they are occupied in that. He says, "ye have me in your hearts", and following upon that he expresses the most exalted thoughts as to them. Lydia was attentive to the things spoken by Paul; and now in the prayer he seeks that they should go on to perfection in view of Christ's day. But Christ Himself has the whole matter in hand and was working out in them what was for God's glory and praise.

W.C.G. What does he refer to when he says, "ye are all participators in my grace"?

J.T. He is calling attention to the fact that as they were participators in his sufferings and toil, they were also sharing in his grace. It is a beautiful link-on with himself.

H.M.S. Why does the apostle speak here of the "fruit of righteousness"?

J.T. "Being complete as regards the fruit of righteousness, which is by Jesus Christ, to God's glory and praise". James says, "the fruit of righteousness in peace is sown for them that make peace", James 3:18. It is seen fully in Romans. Holiness is the outcome of righteousness, "and the end eternal life", Romans 6:22.

J.S-t. Would it be right to connect it with David? In his affection, and out of his own personal property, he provided for the house of God, in view of Solomon's day.

J.T. Quite so; the apostle stresses the idea of "the

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fruit of righteousness". Righteousness is a means to an end.

J.J. In verse 8 he says, "For God is my witness how I long after you all in the bowels of Christ Jesus". Would that be similar to the Lord saying, "But ye are they who have persevered with me in my temptations", Luke 22:28? As the Lord greatly appreciated the disciples who continued with Him through His temptations, so the apostle appreciated the Philippians and their participation with him in the glad tidings.

J.T. Yes. "The bowels of Christ Jesus" would be the Lord's yearnings for His own, the bowels alluding to the lower affections, which move peculiarly in an automatic way. The apostle's affections moved of themselves, as it were, in regard to them, they had such a place with him. The Lord spoke of the Father's affection for his disciples; "the Father himself has affection for you, because ye have had affection for me", John 16:27. They had a great place with the Father. I think the "bowels of Christ Jesus" means that the persons are held in such affection, that although the mind may not be active in it, the affection was there, and always active, as it were, automatically, because of the great place these saints had with the apostle.

E.B.G. Revelation speaks of the "holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, having the glory of God", Revelation 21:10. Is that the completion of which you are speaking? In the beginning of that chapter, verse 2, John speaks of the "new Jerusalem" which is the eternal thing.

J.T. That is right. The former would be the result in Jesus Christ's day brought to pass by Him to God's glory and praise; new Jerusalem is for eternity.

Eu.R. Would the understanding of these thoughts result in the Spirit of Jesus being worked out in each one of us, and in the assemblies we represent?

J.T. Yes. The Lord is seeking to get us on to a high level spiritually. This epistle deals with spiritual

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affections, showing how the saints are regarded personally; how the minister regards them as he knows them, his affections automatically moving towards the saints. That is what God is aiming at, and that would be a cure for all the ills that are arising. We have specific diseases and epidemic diseases, and this epistle is the cure, that we might get near to one another; those who minister to us are in mind here, the apostle being an example of how ministers should regard those to whom they minister.

F.S.M. Is it not of the greatest importance that we should "approve the things that are more excellent"? I was thinking of wisdom saying, "Hear, for I will speak excellent things", Proverbs 8:6. Was not the apostle an example of one who approved the things that were more excellent, for did he not "count also all things to be loss on account of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus"? Would that be included in the remedy?

J.T. Quite so. He is leading us on into the realm of refinement, the things that God had before Him, which are of peculiar refinement, so that we might be equal to the coming day, the day of Jesus Christ.

E.R. To be a connoisseur in divine things is a wonderful thought.

J.T. We have the thought in Matthew 13 of a merchant seeking goodly pearls. He was one who could tell a goodly pearl, and this epistle is to educate us to that, to "judge of and approve the things that are more excellent".

M.W.B. With regard to the question of refinement, would this epistle beget a concern in our hearts not only when things are radically wrong, such as we read of in Galatians, where there should be agonising and travailing, but a concern if the least thing is not quite right? There are thus in this epistle final touches.

J.T. That is the idea. In regard of music, the trained ear detects and abominates the slightest discord,

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and I think this epistle is on that line. We are already dealing with a beautiful thing, but it is to make it more beautiful and more refined, to be in every way in keeping with Christ in view of His day.

W.J.H. Was not the apostle an example of that in himself? His great desire was that Christ should be magnified in his body, himself thus making Christ greater to the hearts of others.

J.T. He says, "For for me to live is Christ"; Christ was his ideal. That is the highest personal ideal that anyone could have. The thought here is refinement spiritually; all that is infinitely perfect in Christ as Man, and the apostle says, That is my life. He would go in for the greatest things. What a variety of beauties are perfectly harmonised in Christ!

H.M.S. "I meditate on thee in the night-watches", Psalm 63:6.

J.T. Quite so. "Even in the nights my reins instruct me", Psalm 16:7. A person lying awake in that way would never be at a loss; he is either praying or meditating or worshipping -- that is christianity. "For me to live is Christ"; that is the highest possible ideal of life.

W.C. Would this link on with the bride making herself ready and being arrayed in pure white linen?

J.T. Yes; the fine linen is the "righteousnesses of the saints", Revelation 19:8. They come out one after another, and are contemplated in this epistle.

H.H. Is the idea in Psalm 74, where it speaks about the work of the sanctuary, what the Spirit is effecting in the saints; the enemy would break it down with hatchets and hammers?

J.T. Yes; the third book of Psalms is largely Asaph's, and is suggestive of refinement; under David he was the chief singer. It helps to bring that in here. In 2 Chronicles 5 the ark is seen at rest in the house. The priests are there, a hundred and twenty of them, and the Levites, and the service is acceptable, reaching

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an end in one note of praise. Then it says that the glory filled, first "the house of Jehovah", and then "the house of God". The great thought of God is there. The passage says, "the priests could not stand to do their service", 2 Chronicles 5:14. Well, what is God occupied with? The priests are not ministering: what then is God occupied with? The glory is there, the evident expression of His delight in the scene that is before Him. It is no question of our saying anything, or of our singing, but of what the saints are. This epistle has in mind what we are, and to make us more than we are, that is, to bring us round to the full divine thought, and when that is reached God is restful; He is occupied with us, not now in our service, but in what we are. How delightful the saints are to God as conformed to the image of Christ! If we stop to think for a moment we shall recognise that God is entitled at any time and in any assembly to regard the saints entirely from His own point of view, eliminating for the moment all else. God can look at us according to all that we are in His counsels. In ministry He is thinking of conforming us to that in every detail, so that we are entirely in accord with His counsels, He rests in that. He is delighted with the saints as answering to His counsels, and that is what this epistle will lead to.

Eu.R. So in each local assembly these things that are more excellent may be promoted in the way of testimony and suffering, prior to the day of display. I was thinking of the passage in 2 Corinthians, where it speaks of "messengers of assemblies, Christ's glory" (2 Corinthians 8:23); they are that now, but in suffering and testimony.

J.T. That is the outward bearing of the thing, but he is concerned, too, as to what goes on inwardly: "this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in full knowledge and all intelligence, that ye may judge of and approve the things that are more excellent". These adjectives are to be noted. It is what goes on

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inside. We have a judgment of things; not only that I admire something, but I approve it; I have ability in my judgment to see that the thing is of God. Is there no ability in the saints to approve things? Scripture says, "there must also be sects among you, that the approved may become manifest among you", 1 Corinthians 11:19. Is there no ability to see who is approved? Are we to take years to tell if a saint, or a company of saints, is approved or not? The apostle here is seeking to bring us round to judge of things, to know what is what, and who is who, in the things of God, and not only to judge but to approve with discernment.

J.J. Do you think the refinement and all that you have said about approval, is seen in the first two chapters of Luke with Elizabeth and Mary and all that went on there?

J.T. Yes. Luke is concerned about priestly refinement and ornamentation, and he beautifully groups them together as the fruit of God's work in those women. You have it in chapter 1 in Elizabeth and Mary, and later in Zacharias. Then, in the temple, you have it in Simeon and Anna.

Ques. Is the refining process also seen in Hebrews 12 in connection with the chastening of the Father of spirits, and the same result arrived at as here -- the "peaceful fruit of righteousness"?

J.T. Quite so; we are made partakers of His holiness.

H.M.S. Does not this prayer exemplify the importance and the necessity of prayer for those who are going on well?

J.T. Yes, and it is that they might go on better; more and more is the thought, and what is more excellent? You are already judging things that are excellent, but there is what is more excellent.

A.N. Is it not in coming to the practical bearing of it at the present moment that the defect may arise? There may be the allowance of evil principles. We have seen in Acts 16 that the apostle had to contend with

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what was adverse, especially the unclean spirit. The allowance of any principles of evil amongst us has a detrimental effect.

J.T. We can see how they becloud our vision -- the judaising spirit at Jerusalem and the demoniacal spirit at Philippi, the one referring to the past and the other to the future. How those things becloud out spirits! What is more excellent refers to what exists now and is seen in the apostle and Silas.

A.S. Is the judgment connected with love? Love is said to be the 'more excellent way'.

J.T. That is what it says here: "that your love may abound yet more and more in full knowledge". He begins with their love, that it might abound in an all-round formative way: "in full knowledge and all intelligence, that ye may judge of and approve the things that are more excellent", and so on. Love really is the basis of the prayer. If we have not love we have nothing. The apostle says, "yet shew I unto you a way of more surpassing excellence", 1 Corinthians 12:31. That is the way of love in the midst of what is contrary.

W.B-w. In our previous reading we had Lydia attending to the things spoken by Paul, and in this chapter we have the things that are more excellent. Is there any connection?

J.T. The things spoken by Paul include what is more excellent. We should be attracted by these things. The word 'connoisseur' has been used, meaning that we need to cultivate a discriminating taste. Is there such a quality? The presence of the Holy Spirit here ensures that in normal conditions there is ability to distinguish between what is excellent in itself and what is more excellent. That is what is in mind. The "things", of course, are of a very wide range. Scripture uses the word refine, and an examination of the contexts will aid us in considering Philippians.

W.B-w. Does it refer to the high things of Paul's ministry, or the work of God in the saints down here?

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J.T. Both, I think. These more excellent things would be reflected in the saints. The saints are the inheritance of God, and those forming the assembly must include what is more excellent. Christ is the great example of all this, but the apostle's aim is, that what is in Him should be worked out in us.

Ques. Do we have an epitome of the more excellent things in chapter 4:8: "whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are noble, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are amiable, whatsoever things are of good report", Philippians 4:8?

J.T. I would not like to limit them to these. I prefer that we should keep our minds upon the vastness of the things into which we are brought, the things represented in Christ, the varied glories of Christ as Man, all to be worked out and reflected in the saints. When we come to the paragraph from verse 12 to the end of the chapter, we have Paul's own circumstances embodied; a very interesting subject to look into, to follow the thoughts and feelings of this great servant in the trying position in which he was. He says, "I would have you know, brethren ...". He would have them know something about himself. They knew about him as he had been amongst them, but he would have them know something of his circumstances in Rome. He says later, "ye have revived your thinking of me" (Philippians 4:10). Here he says, 'ye have me in your hearts, but I want you to know something of my present circumstances'. How that ought to appeal to us! What this great servant was going through, as he was then a prisoner in Rome: "the circumstances in which I am have turned out rather to the furtherance of the glad tidings, so that my bonds have become manifest as being in Christ in all the praetorium and to all others; and that the most of the brethren, trusting in the Lord through my bonds, dare more abundantly to speak the word of God fearlessly". He is showing that his imprisonment was not that of a felon. No doubt, some

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might suggest that if Paul had been more circumspect he would never have been where he was, but his bonds were in Christ, and they were working for the good of the testimony.

Rem. He speaks in a fervent way in this epistle -- "my brethren" -- he wants his brethren to move along with him in the precious traits of Christ.

J.T. He is full of the things of which he is speaking, and we are here today as those who in some little degree are appreciative of these things. Moses said, "Let thy work appear unto thy servants" (Psalm 90:16), and this epistle brings out the work of God; what it is; how God works in the saints, and the Lord looks for us to be full of it. We are not speaking of something that is at a distance.

Ques. Does he manifest that in all these things he is more than a conqueror?

J.T. He is an exemplification of that. He is more than a conqueror; even if there are brethren who envy him and who would preach the gospel even to add to his bonds, he is superior to all that, yea, rejoices that Christ is preached.

W.S.S. Does the expression, "my bonds have become manifest as being in Christ in all the praetorium" convey the suggestion that the limitations placed upon him are nevertheless in Christ and only so?

J.T. That is right. "In Christ" would mean that it was not the outcome of his own folly, but that God brought all there to see that his position was as a prisoner in Christ; his bonds were "in Christ". What restfulness he would thus have in looking at those bonds!

H.D'A.C. Had the Philippians learned the truth of Ephesians, or does the epistle lead on to it? They had learned something of what it was to be heavenly, and how to be something of that down here.

J.T. Yes. It is a parallel epistle; I should not think they were in any way behind the Ephesians in formation. The prayers in Ephesians have knowledge in view. This

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is not leading up to Ephesians, but is normal christianity. Colossians is a corrective epistle leading up to Ephesians. They are said to be risen with Christ by faith and quickened with Him, but were detained by things on the earth, and so are enjoined to set their minds on things above.

H.E.S. Is the point in this section of our chapter specially that Paul has before him the dignity of his sufferings? We have spoken of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, but he speaks of his bonds in Christ. Does this convey the thought of dignity in regard of those bonds?

J.T. Quite so, and what an exposure as to what existed among the brethren! "Most of the brethren, trusting in the Lord through my bonds, dare more abundantly to speak the word of God fearlessly. Some indeed also for envy and strife, but some also for good will, preach the Christ. These indeed out of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the glad tidings; but those out of contention, announce the Christ, not purely, supposing to arouse tribulation for my bonds. What is it then? at any rate, in every way, whether in pretext or in truth, Christ is announced; and in this I rejoice, yea, also I will rejoice; for I know that this shall turn out for me to salvation, through your supplication and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ". These verses bring out the victory that attaches to the servant's position, however adverse or painful the attitude of some. If it is in Christ and according to the will of God, he is morally elevated, and as to fact, lifted above the circumstances, triumphant in them. Then, what a disclosure of love in the brethren on the one hand, and hatred on the other! He brings out that there was positive opposition to him in some -- the very preaching of the gospel by them was intended to add to his sufferings. Yet even this causes him joy, for Christ was preached. What can Satan do in the presence of a man like that?

H.M.S. Do these verses present the spiritual

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continuation of the last two verses of the Acts of the Apostles? We read: "he remained two whole years in his own hired lodging, and received all who came to him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching the things concerning the Lord Jesus Christ, with all freedom unhinderedly".

J.T. Quite so.

D.L.H. Would these opposers be among professing christians, or open opposers among the heathen? It is very difficult to understand how any professing christian could preach Christ out of contention and strife.

J.T. I think they would be professing christians. How could they preach Christ otherwise? Is it not a solemn warning as to what our hearts are capable of? Think of the depths of personal feeling, of animosity, to which we may descend! We have what is similar in chapter 3 -- "they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction", Philippians 3:18,19. Such were some of the professing christians. Among the Corinthians were false apostles, ministers of Satan.

Ques. You have said that in ministry we should endeavour to avoid what is uncongenial. Had you anything concrete in your mind?

J.T. I was referring to Acts 18. It is said in chapter 17 that Paul waited for Silas and Timotheus to come down. Why did he not proceed without them? As soon as they arrive at Corinth he is pressed in regard of the word, and he enters on his service more definitely, the Lord telling him that He had much people in that city. Conversely, persons like Demas, if they were near Paul, as he was, would affect his spirit. I believe that Judas affected the Lord's spirit, and when he went out the Lord was free.

H.H. How are we to understand "the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ"?

J.T. The apostle says: "in this I rejoice, yea, also I will rejoice; for I know that this shall turn out for me to salvation, through your supplication and the supply

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of the Spirit of Jesus Christ". He is buoyant, and is rejoicing because Christ is preached, even although hatred be the motive in the preaching, for "this shall turn out for me to salvation". Then he shows by what means, in saying, "through your supplication and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ". He is superior to his circumstances, and the preaching of Christ is working out to his salvation, but then it would be through their prayers. That would be their side of the thing, and the other side would be the divine supply. The "supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ" is a distinct thing. It is the divine supply, poured in constantly.

H.H. You get the "Spirit of Jesus" elsewhere, and the words "Christ Jesus", but here it is "Jesus Christ". Does that mean another order of man?

J.T. I think it does, wherever it is put in that way it is generally so. We were speaking about the title "Lord Jesus", which brings in the personal touch of affection and reverence, but the expression "Jesus Christ" is that order of Man. In Romans 5,6 we have it distinguished from "Christ Jesus"; in chapter 5 it is what comes "through Jesus Christ", but in chapter 6 it is "in Christ Jesus". So, I suppose, what you say is correct, the order of Man seen in the gospels, whose Spirit in us enables us to go through adversity now.

J.O.S. Luke does not give us the title "Jesus Christ" until in glory, in Acts 2.

E.B.G. Would it be calculated to encourage the Philippian saints that the apostle took up this mutual line, that he appreciated their supplication for him? Not only that he made supplication for them, but he was appreciative of theirs. He says, "ye have me in your hearts", but he also says, "I long after you all in the bowels of Christ Jesus". Is that the mutual idea?

J.T. It is, and it is very beautiful. He comes down to the working out, as you might say, of christianity; for love would relinquish for the moment any official dignity for the working out of this great thing. Paul

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prayed for them and God heard him, but God heard the Philippians' prayer for him, too, and he valued that. Then there was the additional thing, that is, the "supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ". It is as if God were to say that in these circumstances there must be no lack with Paul, he must have all that is needed. And what circumstances they were!

H.D'A.C. It supposes a constant supply, does it not?

J.T. Yes; it is the normal thing under these circumstances.

Eu.R. He links them on fully with his position at the close of the chapter, he accredits them with being in "the same conflict which ye have seen in me".

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THE SUPPLY OF THE SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST (3)

Philippians 1:21 - 30; Philippians 2:1 - 18

J.T. It seems that we should linger together on the facts and the circumstances recorded of the apostle in chapter 1, as he says, "the circumstances in which I am". That the Spirit should have seen fit to include such details in the letter is worthy of special note, and particularly Paul's view of dissolution in verses 21 - 25. "For for me to live is Christ, and to die gain; but if to live in flesh is my lot, this is for me worth the while: and what I shall choose I cannot tell. But I am pressed by both, having the desire for departure and being with Christ, for it is very much better, but remaining in the flesh is more necessary for your sakes; and having confidence of this, I know that I shall remain and abide along with you all, for your progress and joy in faith".

The exercises that the spiritual man has -- particularly in Paul's case -- in view of dissolution are of particular importance to those in advancing years, and of course the possibility of dissolution attaches to every one of us, so that we are enjoined to "number our days, that we may acquire a wise heart", Psalm 90:12. It makes this passage of particular importance, that as considering it, we might become in some measure superior in our outlook and feelings to the thoughts that arise in view of death.

The servant is seen here as in the presence of it, not from what we might call natural causes, but as the outcome of his faithfulness. He was about to be martyred, and all his comment here is marked by the spirit of superiority to the circumstances. He is buoyant, and whilst it is not our portion to be martyrs in this sense in these days, it is well to bear in mind that the duration of our service is a matter of purpose, of divine ordination, and of the will of God. The leading servant

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of the Old Testament died by the will of God; he went up to die, not one day before nor one day after the date on the divine calendar, perfectly clear in his mind, understanding what was happening.

Moses did not die as Paul died, as a martyr; nevertheless he died by the will of God. It was not merely an ebbing out of natural power; he died in strength, and, so in advancing years, and indeed from the outset, I believe the Lord would lay it upon us that we should be clear in our minds, so that death might be faced as a matter of the will of God, and as understanding that the servant dies in some degree as Christ died. It is a question of the will of God. Christ did not die from natural weakness, but in power.

H.E.S. Is the gain and profit of the assembly the deciding factor in that case?

J.T. Quite so, that is what comes out. The apostle says, "but remaining in the flesh is more necessary for your sakes; and having confidence of this, I know that I shall remain and abide along with you all, for your progress and joy in faith". The decision was, as it were, in his own hands.

Ques. What precedes this is, "now also Christ shall be magnified in my body whether by life or by death". Paul was looking forward to martyrdom, but might we apply this somewhat to the burial of a saint?

J.T. Normally, God is glorified in the burial of His saints: this refers, however, to those who bury them. But as to the one buried, it is life and death. That is, it is how one lives and how one dies. It is in the manner of a saint's death that Christ is magnified.

Ques. Would Psalm 16 be suggestive of these exercises?

J.T. That is the Lord's own outlook. At our burials the brethren may magnify us in the way they speak, very often in eulogies which go beyond the life of the person; but it is a question of how one lives and how one dies.

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W.J.H. It was a mark of great trustworthiness in Paul that the Lord should give him his choice, as to whether he should live or die.

J.T. It suggests also nearness to the Lord in the apostle's own case. He puts it in this way, "I am pressed by both" -- that is, the wish to go and the necessity of staying -- "... but remaining in the flesh is more necessary for your sakes; and having confidence of this, I know that I shall remain and abide along with you all". It is really a spiritual assurance; he was governed by unselfishness, by love for the saints.

M.W.B. Do you think it has any connection with the nature of the conclusion of which we read in Acts 16? When he saw the man of Macedonia there was a conclusion reached in his mind.

J.T. I think it is of a piece with that. The spiritual assurance which he had governed him, as he was consciously controlled by utterly unselfish motives.

E.J.McB. The natural man necessarily has an end, but the spiritual man should be in vigour at the end.

J.T. That the mind should be clear by taking care of itself, as it were. Many talk about going to be with the Lord, and there is a great deal of sentiment, but it is not calculated feeling. We should go to be with the Lord with a mind clear as to what is happening.

F.S.M. Is there a peculiar dignity in the apostle's suggestion, putting life before death here? Ittai said, "whether in death or life" (2 Samuel 15:21); but the apostle having the assembly in view, feels it was worth while to remain for the sake of the saints, and he therefore puts life before death.

J.T. Quite so. Of course in a servant's path it is a question that his life here and his movements in his body here for the will of God should all magnify Christ, and then if death comes, his mind is clear; it is not incidental, it is just the will of God. It is how we die. The manner of the dying of spiritual men as recorded in Scripture, is a very interesting study, culminating in

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the death of Christ, and then worked out in representative men of this dispensation, such as Paul and Stephen. Stephen is an excellent example of a man who knew how to die.

Eu.R. Jacob died when he had "made an end of commanding his sons", Genesis 49:33. He was concerned how he left things in the present. Then Joseph in dying "called to mind the going forth of the sons of Israel" (Hebrews 11:22); he died in full vigour as to the thoughts of God being carried through to fruition.

J.T. Jacob specially is an example of what we are saying. Having commanded his sons, having said all he had to say in wonderful intelligence, saying, "I know, my son, I know" (Genesis 48:19); he would not be turned aside even by the voice of the lord of Egypt. Having done all that was needed, he gathered up his feet into the bed and died. It was really an act of power; he is, as already remarked, an excellent example of what we are saying. Caleb, too, speaking at the age of eighty-five years and saying that he was as strong then as he was forty years before, illustrates what we are saying; there was the continuance of vitality, of strength to go out and to come in. It is the retention of strength that is in mind; that we die, as it were, in power.

W.S.S. Would the Lord's remark to Peter help in this connection: "he said this signifying by what death he should glorify God", John 21:19?

J.T. That is very good. What greater thing can you conceive of as to one's death, than that God should be glorified in it! Here it is the same thing with Paul -- to magnify Christ in death.

J.J. How would you speak of the reference he makes in the end of chapter 3 as to not dying at all -- "our commonwealth has its existence in the heavens, from which also we await the Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour, who shall transform our body of humiliation into conformity to his body of glory"?

J.T. That is a general statement as to the coming

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of the Lord, which is our normal outlook and expectation; but then the spiritual man understands what may transpire before that happens. Paul understood what had to occur in his case, and he accepted the fact that death was imminent; it is a question of how he faces it.

W.J.H. Would not Hezekiah afford us a warning on the other side, that we should be ready to accept it if it is the will of God, and not weep?

J.T. His case may well be compared with the apostle's. Paul would seem to be entirely superior to what was imminent; it was not affecting him as it affected Hezekiah. Paul says, to be with Christ is "very much better", and we may take it that he said what he knew. I apprehend he had some experience of life out of death. He speaks of it in chapter 3: "if any way I arrive at the resurrection from among the dead" Philippians 3:11. He had some experience of passing over into the realm of life with Christ. I suppose his experience was beyond anything known today; "whether in the body or out of the body I know not" (2 Corinthians 12:3), he says. Think of a man having an experience like that!

W.L. Allusion has been made to the dissolution of prominent persons in Scripture: what thoughts would you suggest should be in our hearts in relation to the approach of that great event?

J.T. Well, I would advise the study of the early chapters of the book of Joshua, and corresponding with that, the privileges of the assembly, in order to understand what it is to be beyond death, to have the experience of the land. Canaan is the realm beyond death, and the more we understand the assembly and what it involves, the less we shall fear death. Those who do fear death hardly understand the assembly at all; it is a question of being consciously over. Paul understood that. Colossians 2 helps greatly, for there we are said to be risen with Christ through the faith of the working of God, and also to be quickened with Him.

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Eu.R. Does all that depend on our appreciation of the Son of God as the ark in the midst of Jordan?

J.T. Yes; it is the power experienced. All the people are represented in the twelve men. Much is made of the twelve men representing the tribes, and each one carried a stone out of the bed of Jordan, which means they went up in strength, and they placed the stones in Gilgal.

Ques. Do we see the opposite in Barzillai the Gileadite, who, instead of going over with David, preferred to die in his own city and be buried in the grave of his father and mother?

J.T. Yes; he little understood what was over Jordan, the voice of singing men and singing women. He knew it objectively, had heard of it, but had not the experience of being there. It is understanding the thing itself now, the realm beyond death, that will fortify me when the actual article of death has to be faced.

Eu.R. So Colossians, which gives us entrance into the land, makes a great deal of inward strength in the saints.

J.T. There we are said to be quickened. The position to be taken is indicated by the words, "in which ye have been also raised with him through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead", Colossians 2:12. It is a faith matter, but faith that apprehends that the power of God, which has operated in the raising of Christ, exists here in the Spirit. It is a matter of appropriating it. In the quickening there is the sense of the power of God actually in the believer's soul. Thus I come to resurrection, indeed, to heavenly ground, for that is what Canaan involves, and if literal death has to be faced, I am prepared for it.

Rem. So there is no water in Jordan.

J.T. There is water in Jordan; it came back and overflowed all its banks. That is to say, death is death still; death remains death; the graveyards are as well

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filled as ever, and we may as well face it. The Jordan returned and overflowed its banks as before, but there is testimony to its overthrow for faith in the resurrection of Christ, so that the believer regards himself as risen with Him; there is power in the believer by which he may maintain the fact, and so death does not dominate him. Death does not dominate anyone who understands the assembly.

Rem. The apostle knew what to do in the "swelling of the Jordan", Jeremiah 12:5.

J.T. That is the idea, "how wilt thou then do in the swelling of the Jordan?" I am to learn how to do in the swelling of Jordan. So in David's time you get men who went over. It is a question first of faith in the operation of God in raising Christ, and then of that power being here, that is the Spirit in the believer.

Ques. Did Thomas face this in John 11:16, when he said, "Let us also go, that we may die with him"?

J.T. It was attachment to Christ, but he accepted death: "that we may die with him". He knew that going into Judaea meant that the Lord would suffer death.

Rem. In 1 Chronicles 12:15 it says, "These are they that went over Jordan in the first month, when it overflows all its banks, and they put to flight all them of the valleys, toward the east and toward the west".

J.T. That passage shows that Jordan still overflows its banks. That is the public position, but faith understands that there is a power that has really abolished death, and that power has come in and taken Christ out of death. He is the only one really out of it, but faith enables the saints to reckon that they also are risen with Him, and it is realised in the assembly in the power of the Spirit.

Ques. Would Elisha going over Jordan with Elijah make that clear?

J.T. Elijah wrapped his mantle together and smote the waters. It is a question of the authority and power

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of God, involving the life of Jesus here; the authority of God was asserted -- that life must not be held in death: "it was not possible that he should be held by its power", Acts 2:24. Elijah wrapped his mantle together; typifying I believe, Jesus according to what He was as Man here overcoming death; Elisha did not do that, but called for the God of Elijah. The Jordan was thus also overthrown by Elisha. Elisha is the spiritual side, the saints taking the thing up spiritually.

Rem. Epaphroditus in chapter 2, who "was also sick close to death" (Philippians 2:27), but in the mercy of God he was spared to the apostle.

J.T. He was glorifying God through his sickness. He was not concerned about himself, but about the Philippians. It is in unselfish love that Christ is magnified. Christ entered into death in that way.

A.R. Have you in mind that I do not have to wait until I die to pass over Jordan, but I can do it in the assembly?

J.T. Yes. Colossians speaks of this matter, and the word that governs it is "entering", entering the land. The point is not when we die, but entering it now, and the ground taken is that we are raised "through the faith of the operation of God" (Colossians 2:12), that is, not actually, but by faith. The Spirit maintains me in that, the power that wrought in Christ is working in me. Presently it will change my body if I am alive when the Lord comes; He will change it by His Spirit that dwells in us.

Eu.R. Chapter 3 makes it clear that it is a question of the knowledge of a Person: "to know him, and the power of his resurrection"; and then, subordinate to that, "and the fellowship of his sufferings, being conformed to his death".

J.T. "If any way I arrive at the resurrection from among the dead" (Philippians 3:10 - 12); and he did; he attained to it in his experience.

M.W.B. Do you regard that verse as a moral reaching

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of it in his soul, and not as desiring that he might actually pass through the article of death?

J.T. It is the realisation of it now that is in mind, that I may attain to the resurrection from among the dead. He goes on to say, "Not that I have already obtained the prize, or am already perfected", but there can be no question that he had the experience of resurrection from among the dead in some measure.

Ques. Is there something more intelligent, more positive, and something more for God in Samson's death than we have been inclined to consider?

J.T. Quite so, it was an unselfish death, as you might say, in keeping with his mission. One's death ought to be in keeping with one's mission. He prayed for the judgment of God upon the Philistines and it came to pass, but he glorified God in his death.

W.B-w. It is said of Israel going through the Jordan that they placed twelve stones in the midst of Jordan, and also took up twelve stones and placed them in Gilgal; would that indicate the process of going through?

J.T. The twelve stones taken out of it was by direct command. A man from each tribe was to take out a stone and place it in Gilgal, but the placing of the stones in the midst of Jordan was Joshua's own act. There was to be a testimony that Christ had been into death; so there is a correspondence between the two sets of stones. Those in the bed of Jordan are a testimony that Christ and we, too, have been into it, and the others are a testimony that we have come out of it with Him.

W.C.G. Does it not need a certain building up of soul to take this ground? It says in Colossians 2:7, "rooted and built up in him".

J.T. It does. Quickening is the basis of it, but first there must be faith in the operation of God, the power already in me to take me out of death. I appropriate

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that power, it having a present and also a future bearing. By it I am quickened with Christ now.

H.H. Does not this provide for the Ephesian thought? Philippians and Ephesians run parallel, do they not?

J.T. I apprehend that Philippians is the counterpart of Ephesians, which is the formal doctrine of the assembly's heavenly position as the outcome of counsel. Philippians corresponding with that is normal christianity worked out down here in the saints.

H.H. In that way one's spiritual outlook is connected with crossing the Jordan, you would say?

J.T. It is; one would like to see that outlook definite with all of us.

E.J.McB. Is not Paul personally giving the brethren the advantages of his spiritual enjoyment, and pointing out the possibilities of it in us?

J.T. That is right. There is much doubtless in his experience he could hardly put into words; he says elsewhere that his visit to the third heaven involved hearing unutterable things. There was much therefore he could hardly unfold, but still he gave the brethren the benefit of his experience as far as he could, and especially in what we so often quote, "having the desire for departure and being with Christ, for it is very much better".

J.J. Would what is said about death in chapter 1 be related in any way to these steps involved in chapter 2, as to the death of Christ?

J.T. One can understand how the apostle, having in mind to touch on the incarnation, unfolds his own experience as far as he does in this letter, and so he begins chapter 2 with an "if" -- not an "if" of doubt, but as a basis for what he has to say. If, he says, there are these four things: "If then there be any comfort in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and compassions, fulfil my joy". And then he goes on to four other things: "that

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ye may think the same thing, having the same love, joined in soul, thinking one thing". He certainly laid the basis for what he is going to say in the chapter, in unfolding the incarnation of Christ and touching the secret features of the Deity. He is concerned to lay a right basis, that there should be those four things at Philippi, and as a consequence there should be the four other things, namely, "that ye may think the same thing, having the same love, joined in soul, thinking one thing". Such persons are morally capable of taking in the great thoughts of the incarnation.

Eu.R. Is this at all like going after the ark, with a measured distance of two thousand cubits between us and it?

J.T. It is. The apostle is going to open up now the wonderful down-stooping of Christ, His place before God as here in manhood, and His obedience unto death, even the death of the cross. The Lord would surely remind us that we are on peculiarly holy ground in this chapter. There is scarcely a composition elsewhere in Scripture to be compared with these verses, from 5 to 11. There is a parallel in the closing verse of 1 Timothy 3, a composition very similar but more marked by literary care, but the inwardness and depths of this passage are unique as furnishing us with the Lord's mind and thoughts in the stupendous matter presented.

H.E.S. Do these various suggestions here bring before us the thought that it is not only a question of how we think, but of how we feel?

J.T. Yes; each set of four things in verses 1 and 2: "If then there be any comfort in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and compassions". The "if" is a challenge, for to proceed to what follows without these thoughts would be unthinkable. The apostle is concerned about the state of the Philippians being perfect, "thinking one thing". It is true spiritual unity he has in mind;

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that is his object, but in view of bringing out the mind of Christ as exemplifying all this, Christ in His great down-stooping.

N.K.M. How would you distinguish between thinking "the same thing" and "thinking one thing"?

J.T. "One thing" is the top stone of what he has in mind. It is perfect unity of thought, but he has "the same thing" in mind as preceding that. If difficulties have arisen, and you merely say that you are sorry, there would still be a difference; but I want to think as you think as to the matter, and if both of us are right and sincere, that will culminate in "one thing", the perfect expression of a united mind.

Eu.R. Would all this tend to promote what might be called a priestly way of thinking and considering for God?

J.T. It is a highly refined spiritual state that is in mind, and so I should be so near you in my spirit as to have the same thoughts as you. If what you think may not be just right, and what I think may not be just right -- well, let us look into the matter and see if we cannot think the same thing. "The same thing" is not a party thing, it is what is right, and hence according to the mind of God.

Ques. What is suggested in "joined in soul"?

J.T. You may be sure the order here is right: "that ye may think the same thing, having the same love, joined in soul, thinking one thing". The mind and affections are active. The first is the mind exercised to think as the brethren do, to think right, of course; the second is to love as they do, in incorruption, of course; the third is union in the deep personal feelings which lie in the soul; all culminating, fourthly, in perfect unity of thought. Our motives are searched out in all this. "Joined in soul" goes down to the depths of the being.

Ques. Does what we have here constitute a "son of consolation", Acts 4:36?

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J.T. Quite so, and a "son of peace" (Luke 10:6), too, without which we cannot have "sons of oil", Zechariah 4:14. Sons of peace are essential to the formation of assemblies.

D.L.H. Has not the precious ointment upon the head in Psalm 133 something to do with this? How brethren dwell together in unity is connected with the down-flow of the precious ointment from the head; that is, the Spirit of Christ as influencing each individual so that unity is thus brought about.

J.T. That helps, because the psalm contemplates a compact state of things, a finished state of things in a gathering, or the saints as a whole. It is not properly the skirts of the garments, but the hem: "Like the precious oil upon the head, that ran down upon the beard", alluding to the personal attractiveness of Christ -- "that ran down to the hem of his garments". The allusion is to a perfect state of things, for love is "the bond of perfectness" (Colossians 3:14); there are no loose ends among us. Why should it not be so? Why should things be left outstanding or unsettled? What is before us here is to reach a state marked by "thinking one thing".

J.J. Have we the highest presentation of the christian circle here?

J.T. Yes. Ephesians runs parallel with it: "with all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, bearing with one another in love; using diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace", Ephesians 4:2,3. That is the same sort of thing, but the use of words here is remarkable. You might say that several words could be eliminated, and the same thoughts conveyed, but you are struck by the apostle's use of words in order to intensify what is in his mind to bring about -- a real unity, the depths of our souls brought into it.

Ques. Is this unity to be in time?

J.T. Quite so. Why not? Are we to spend a good part of our time in occupation with things that are not

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settled? A thing that could be settled in a day often drags on, but if we sincerely get down to the facts of difficulties they do not stand, but become settled at once. So Psalm 133 is a completed idea, the hem of the garment being a complete thought, just as Jerusalem is "a city that is compact together", Psalm 122:3. I think the precious presentation of Christ in Philippians 2 as received into our souls, would result in the settlement of every difficulty amongst the saints.

Wh.L. It says of Israel in a coming day that they shall "flow together", Isaiah 60:5. Is that the idea?

J.T. Yes, and they become one stick in the hand of Jehovah (Ezekiel 37).

A.N. Do you think that principle is set forth in Zechariah, in the two staves, Beauty and Bands? It became ineffective because of Israel's heartless attitude towards Christ. The first staff is broken, and then "they weighed for my hire thirty silver-pieces", Zechariah 11:12. What follows on that is the breaking of the second staff, that is, Bands, and the breaking of that staff follows on the lack of appreciation of Christ.

J.T. Yes. So that everything centres in Christ and our appreciation of Him. You can see how the apostle had this in mind in telling us in chapter 1 what Christ was to him. He says, "For for me to live is Christ". Now he is going to bring in Christ in the wonderful down-stooping of His love as the great Exemplar of lowliness and humiliation. The true way of the settlement of every difficulty is that one may die to reach the solution of it.

P.C. Did Paul reach that at Troas when, descending he brought the boy alive?

J.T. Well, quite so; he brought the boy alive, which would mean that potentialities for God were now there, and the saints were comforted.

W.B-w. "The same love" would not mean two kinds of love.

J.T. There is brotherly love, Peter says, and love:

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"... brotherly love, love". I refer to that to show that there are two kinds of love. You cannot connect brotherly love with God, but you can with Christ and with the saints. It may be modified in us by personal preferences, but love as in God would correct that. "The same love" here would be love as it should be in all circumstances. It is that you want to love as I love, and I want to love as you love. So one may rightly ask, How do you define your love? The Lord was the first to say, I love: "I love my master" (Exodus 21:5), which is the highest kind of love; love Godward. So it is right to challenge a brother to define his love.

W.B-w. If I have prejudices as to my brother, then I have not the right kind of love.

J.McG. David said of Jonathan: "Thy love to me was wonderful" (2 Samuel 1:26), but they did not think the same thing. Jonathan had a different thought in regard of Saul.

J.T. If you had challenged David as to his love, you would get a different account of love from him from what you would from Jonathan. Jonathan's love was biased; although he loved David, it was not pure, there was something to modify it.

H.D'A.C. Would it not be rather difficult to define one's love? I am afraid I cannot say much about it.

J.T. I must confess that I cannot say much either, but if we are to have the same love, if your love is to be as mine, I must find out what your love is.

H.E.S. Is the character of the work of God seen as complete in Ecclesiastes, where it says, "there is nothing to be added to it, nor anything to be taken from it" (chapter 3:14)?

J.T. Quite so, and that is what we shall be eternally as the fruit of the work of God, but this "same love" is a very good thing to think of, because I am challenged before God as to the kind of love I have and by what I am dominated. I may call it christian love, but is it affected by something else, as Jonathan's was?

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Ques. Elsewhere the glad tidings are made a standard, and I was wondering if what you are saying had this in mind. In chapter 1 the standard seems to be the "glad tidings of the Christ" (verse 27).

J.T. The place the glad tidings has in chapter 1 is very remarkable, and the idea seems to be in the apostle's mind right through that chapter. When we come to chapter 2, he is concerned about the perfecting of the saints in Philippi, and he deals with these two sets of four things, and then proceeds to speak of Christ as exemplifying what he has in mind. He concludes these things with "thinking one thing"; he is aiming at unity of that kind; there is no thought of agreeing to differ, but that the saints should arrive at thinking one thing.

Ques. Have we an example of the same love in the three who broke through the ranks of the Philistines to fetch David "water out of the well of Bethlehem" (2 Samuel 23:16), and David pouring it out before the Lord?

J.T. There is no question that these three mighties had the same love. They had pure love for David which led them to break through. I believe it is illustrative of the last days. The mighties are mentioned in Chronicles at the beginning of David's reign, and in Samuel at the end; it is a beautiful thought that the same love for Christ is contemplated at the end, and the fruit of it is taken as an offering for God and poured out. The highest thought of the same love is in John 17, where the Lord says at the end of His prayer, "I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known; that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them" (verse 26). That is to say, the same kind of love that the Father has for the Son is in the saints. That is the highest expression of what we have here, of "the same love".

M.W.B. Would you explain the link there is in the declaration, or the making known, of the name, with the love being in them? It is not to them, but "in them".

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J.T. It is effected in us as a consequence of the name of the Father being declared to us, that we apprehend the kind of love that the Father has for the Son. He said to Him at the Jordan, "Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I have found my delight" (Mark 1:11), and then again, "The Father loves the Son", John 3:35. How great is the thought of the peculiar love that the Father has for the Son! -- and the Lord shows that His declaration of the Father's name involved that kind of love, and that is to be in us. So that there is in this sense correspondence between the Father and ourselves, Christ being the Centre for the Father and also for the saints.

M.W.B. And if we knew more really the import of the name of Father in regard of the Son, we should have operative in us that same kind of love. Is that the idea?

J.T. Yes. There are three kinds of love. There is the love of Christ which is in the Lord's supper, there is the covenant-love of God, also in the Supper, and then there is the Father's love for the Son. That is not the covenant-love, but the Father's love for the Son, and that love is to be in our hearts.

A.J.G. Does Peter show that he has come to that when he refers to the scene on the holy mount and says: "For he received from God the Father honour and glory, such a voice being uttered to him by the excellent glory: This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight; and this voice we heard uttered from heaven, being with him on the holy mountain", 2 Peter 1:17,18. Does that show he had been impressed by the way the Father spoke of the Son?

J.T. That is a good reference. "Such a voice", he says, "we heard uttered from heaven, being with him on the holy mountain", meaning that the voice was intelligible; at least Peter is now speaking of it with full understanding and appreciation. The Father's voice and words found correspondence in Peter's heart. When Peter was about to die he was greatly enlarged

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and refined in his feelings, so he refers to the mount of transfiguration in language that he could not possibly have used when he was actually there, showing how we come to things. Things presented may at the time be beyond our understanding, but God brings us to them.

J.J. In referring to Paul as "our beloved brother" (2 Peter 3:15), he would be as one who would esteem "the other as more excellent" than himself.

H.D'A.C. Does it involve the two thoughts; the knowledge of the Father's love to the Son, and then our answer to that love as we know it? The Lord says "that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them", John 17:26.

J.T. He loves us with that same love, with the love with which He loves the Son. God loves us as His sons. It is the same kind of love, but then it is conveyed that we have that kind of love too; we can love the Son too -- "I in them" -- it is the Son having a place in our affections.

H.D'A.C. That would come in in the Lord's word, "and I in them". That is a very great thought.

J.T. Quite so. The Son has room in us now, and that is really the basis of His ministry in the sanctuary.

G.E.G. Would the next two verses afford a good indication of what our love is? "Let nothing be in the spirit of strife or vain glory, but, in lowliness of mind, each esteeming the other as more excellent than themselves; regarding not each his own qualities, but each those of others also".

J.T. These are additional things, and what is to be observed particularly is what is "more excellent". Certainly I must learn to keep this in mind if I am to regard others as more excellent than myself. As the apostle says, "less than the least of all saints", Ephesians 3:8. One of the most difficult things is to think less of myself. It is a good habit to acquire; and then, how do I clothe the saints? "Bring forth the best robe" (Luke 15:22) is said to the

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bondmen, the father of the prodigal has the bondmen in his confidence; he has no need to tell them where the best robe is, but tells them to bring it forth and put it on him. We have the suggestion of clothing the brethren with the best, and that is how we get on to the idea of a brother being more excellent.

M.W.B. These exhortations, I expect, make most of us feel rather rebuked, but is it for that reason that the most exalted action and the most amazing stoop are then brought before us, to affect us by contemplation?

J.T. That is the thought. Christ is brought in in this way. Then it runs on in verse 4: "regarding not each his own qualities" -- whatever they are -- "but each those of others also". I acquire that habit of thinking of a brother's qualities and giving them preference to my own. Well now, the apostle moves on to infinite perfection. Am I capable of taking that in, of thinking of such qualities, of the personal qualities of Christ? The first four verses prepare us for what the apostle now puts before us. He has been speaking about qualities, and regarding the qualities of others more than my own, but now he brings in infinite perfection in a Man, and that is what we have in verses 5 to 11.

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THE SUPPLY OF THE SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST (4)

Philippians 2:5 - 30

J.T. The section from verse 5 to 11 is the very heart of the epistle; the example of our Lord Jesus Christ in His descending love being set before us, that His mind indeed, as descending, might be in us. The facts of the incarnation are spoken of in Matthew, and particularly in Luke, but it is the mind that was in Christ Jesus, as stated here, which is before us now.

W.J.H. Do you think that the holy conditions that have been referred to, immediately preceding this, correspond with the holy men and women in the beginning of Luke's gospel among whom the Lord Jesus, personally, was introduced?

J.T. That is a very helpful suggestion. The state of Zacharias, the official priest, was not equal to it; but that of Elizabeth and Mary, as recorded, was suitable; and Zacharias came to it through discipline.

W.J.H. Is this section in contrast to Satan's fall? Satan fell in hatred, but the Lord descended in love.

J.T. Quite so. Adam, as influenced by him, is undoubtedly in mind. Satan's suggestion was equality with God: he said, "ye will be as God", Genesis 3:5. He injected the ascending mind into Adam, so that that mind is natural to us as men, and will have full expression in Antichrist, who "exalts himself on high against all called God", 2 Thessalonians 2:4. Hence, the example of the Lord here -- His mind being in us -- is the testimony by which to meet that at the present time.

Rem. Jude refers to the angels "who had not kept their own original state" (Jude 6); that is a prerogative that is open only to the Creator.

J.T. To leave one's appointed state is lawlessness in any other. What Jotham's speech, in Judges 9, condemns

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is just that; he exposes the efforts made to induce one to leave his divinely appointed place so as to exalt himself to rule. The consciousness of being divinely appointed, and functioning in the appointment, holding to the condition, is the antidote to that. The spirit of Antichrist is characteristic of the present time, and God has revived the Spirit of Christ in His people, and He would lay upon us the need of possessing the descending mind of Christ so as to carry out the will of God and to serve acceptably to Him. "Let this mind be in you" assumes ability in the Philippian saints to grasp the thought of Christ's down-stooping -- a very great matter -- ability to grasp the attitude of His mind at that time. There is the converse of this in Ephesians, the idea of ascending, which belonged to no other, involving His personal right to go up. No other had a right to ascend but a divine Person. "He that descended is the same who has also ascended up above all the heavens", Ephesians 4:10. Hebrews 1:3 and Hebrews 8:1, etc., strikingly testify to our Lord's personal right to ascend to heaven.

H.E.S. This movement was a voluntary one in contrast to the fall of man, or Satan.

J.T. Plainly. It is the Lord's own movement: "who, subsisting in the form of God, did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God". He was in the form of God, and it was no robbery to take that place, but He took another place, that is, a servant's place.

Ques. Why is the thought of robbery introduced?

J.T. I think the allusion is to Adam. It was robbery for him to seek equality with God; and also for Antichrist, being a creature, to set himself down in the place of God.

W.B-w. Why is it "Christ Jesus" and not "Jesus Christ"? Is it the anointed Man who is in mind?

J.T. I suppose that is what is meant. The sequel of the passage is, "Wherefore also God highly exalted him".

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It is that One. He is spoken of as Christ Jesus, that this mind was in Him.

P.S.P. Do you mean that it was in Him before He became Man? I thought it was the mind that was in Him before He came here, that is, He made up His mind -- if one might so speak -- to go down and come into this world.

J.T. It is the mind proper to man. The mind was in Christ Jesus. That does not set aside that it was there morally before He actually took human form, but the bearing of it is what is in man, and proper to man in these circumstances.

Ques. Do you mean that we must look at Him here in contrast to Adam?

J.T. Yes. Manhood is in the apostle's mind in alluding to it in this way. The mind that was in Christ Jesus is set out in a series of statements running into each other: "who, subsisting in the form of God, did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God; but emptied himself, taking a bondman's form, taking his place in the likeness of men". Some translate, "having taken" -- the descending mind being attested in the action -- avoiding to say that it was there before.

M.W.B. Would you regard the mind which was also in Christ Jesus as described in the successive steps referred to, and embracing them all?

J.T. Yes; that is, taking a bondman's form, taking His place in the likeness of men.

W.B-w. Do I understand that you do not connect the mind with what He was before He came into manhood?

J.T. I do not deny that the mind began morally in deity: the scripture says, "who, subsisting in the form of God". It is there, but it is what developed in Man that is in mind. It is spoken of as manifestly there. It comes in in a Man. It is spoken of as it is seen operating. It is in taking the bondman's form that He emptied

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Himself. There was no distinct action on the descending line, as far as I see, before that. It would not be characteristic of His position in the Godhead. To view Him abstractly in the Deity and make Him subject will not do, but viewing Him in this way as taking a bondman's form makes it simple. This, I believe, is what is conveyed in the passage before us.

D.L.H. Have we not to keep in mind the Being or Personality that is unchanged? It is the same Being, but in a new condition.

J.T. Quite so, and it is in the new condition that subjection and obedience are seen. "Having been found in figure as a man, humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death".

A.S.L. What would you say about the expression, "emptied himself"?

J.T. If we came to a full stop after that expression "emptied himself", there would be a real difficulty, but the reading is that He "emptied himself, taking a bondman's form". The emptying is in taking the bondman's form.

H.D'A.C. In the very fact that He took it.

A.S.L. The bondman's form is in contrast to the exalted form.

J.T. Quite so.

M.W.B. Is it not important that the obedience is linked with having taken that form? There is no suggestion of obedience in the form of God; that could not be.

J.T. That is important to make clear. The movement was His own, and taking the bondman's form explains the emptying.

Ques. Have we a somewhat similar passage in John 13:1 - 4? It says, "Jesus, knowing ... that he came out from God and was going to God, rises from supper and lays aside his garments ..."; that was for service.

J.T. Quite so; the laying aside of His garments was an action of this kind, His garments denoting His

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dignity. He laid them aside there for the moment, and took a servant's form. Girding Himself with a towel meant this; but later He laid that aside and put on His garments and sat down. He resumes His place of dignity. This indicates that the bondman's form cannot be permanently descriptive of Him. The fact that He took it does not set aside the truth of His Person or His part in the Deity; the Person is the same, and in the form of Man He is spoken of as God: "who is over all, God blessed for ever", Romans 9:5.

J.J. What is the force of emptying Himself?

J.T. It is a much debated word, but what we are saying is the force of it, that He gave up outwardly the form of God in taking a bondman's form. The word "form" involved a real change, that He was to be a servant; that One who as God always commanded, took a servant's form -- what He was, and what He is.

W.C.G. Why do you use the word 'outwardly'?

J.T. It is the word to use, because He did not change as to His Being -- room is left for the inscrutability of His Person. We cannot say He has left His part in Deity absolutely; it is simply what has come about before our eyes -- inscrutable infinitude remains. Yet the form He took is not a mere external form. The word "form" here is substantial; it was a real thing. For the moment He really took a servant's form. He was capable of, and had, the feelings and all else proper to a bondman apart from sin.

E.J.McB. Is the point to emphasise the genuineness of His humanity, but at the same time always to keep in mind who He is?

J.T. Yes; we have always to make allowance for the inscrutable, that in human form He could say, "Before Abraham was, I am", John 8:58. That would guard us from any derogatory thoughts.

J.J. Does the rendering, "made himself of no reputation", in the Authorized Version, give the meaning of the position?

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J.T. It does. Some say that it is as good as any, it is what the facts presented prove, and He said, "I am in the midst of you as the one that serves", Luke 22:27. That was what marked Him among His disciples.

W.R.P. Would change of status give the idea? He stepped out of one status into another.

J.T. I think the word "status" used in this way is good, but of course we must leave room for the inscrutable, as already remarked. Scripture is accurate, not only literally, but also spiritually, and by carefully following it we are preserved. We must, as it were, think in its terms, assured that it must agree with itself in everything. The Lord taking a bondman's form is more than becoming Man. Manhood was a great thought in the divine mind, and there is no suggestion in this passage of belittling it. It was as becoming Man He took a bondman's form, but manhood has to be viewed by itself, and in Christ it is most exalted and glorious, answering to Psalm 8. The Lord took a bondman's form because of the need; that service was needed. Bondmanship is mentioned before manhood in our scripture, the latter in the words, "taking his place in the likeness of men; and having been found in figure as a man". A stronger word is used for bondmanship, humiliation being the thought stressed.

A.S.L. The distinction between bondman's form and outward figure as a Man is helpful. Bondman's form is a moral thought, and the other is humanity, the likeness of men.

J.T. It is not that the Lord was always in the attitude of a servant. He was not; but it characterised Him down here, as He said Himself, "I am in the midst of you as the one that serves". But that does not disprove that He also acted as God down here.

Ques. Are the four gospels necessary to give the filling out of verses 7 and 8?

J.T. You can see how those verses were exemplified in the gospels; but manhood does not in itself imply

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bondman's form. "Likeness of men", refers not simply to the fact of His humanity, but that He took up outwardly what characterised men generally, sin apart. It is "men", not "man" here. He was, as it were, an ordinary man. You might see Him in Nazareth, a Man among men. "Is not this the carpenter, ... brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us?" (Mark 6:3) was said. Thus He took His place in the likeness of men.

Ques. Why do you emphasise the thought of His place?

J.T. The scripture says, "taking his place": it was divinely intended that He should take such a place. There was no one like Him, of course, but you could see Him as a Man in ordinary circumstances -- He ate and drank, and worked as a carpenter -- all to bring out the reality of His manhood: "taking his place in the likeness of men". It was not manhood as in Adam innocent, but such -- sin apart -- as was to be seen in Palestine at that time. All was in infinite holiness, of course, and our Lord was personally immune from the consequences of sin in a moral sense, although He took part in physical toil, hunger, weariness, etc.

Ques. Did Satan seek to divert Him from this in the wilderness?

J.T. That is what he had in mind: "If thou be Son of God, speak to this stone, that it become bread", Luke 4:3. Satan's remark implied that sonship did not belong to manhood, he would detach the idea from manhood; but the Lord said, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God".

C.E.W.B. With regard to the Hebrew servant, in Exodus 21, is it right to apply the statement to the Lord that He shall be a "bondman for ever"?

J.T. While the type in Exodus says that, that is only one side of the Lord's position. It is not scriptural to make the bondman thought cover all that He is. It would preclude His prerogative as God and His dignity

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as Man, His sonship. It is to bring out what love would do, the length to which it would go. Our Lord is now "highly exalted".

H.M.S. Would you here connect the Lord's own words, "he will gird himself and make them recline at table, and coming up will serve them", Luke 12:37?

J.T. Yes, He can do that and will do it, but, as we see in John 13, He put on His garments of dignity again after serving.

M.W.B. It is interesting that the word "serve" there, in Luke 12:37, is not that for bondman service.

D.L.H. Would not Luke 12:37 have its fulfilment rather in the kingdom? In the eternal state the Lord Jesus takes His place as Son of God "in subjection to him who put all things in subjection to him, that God may be all in all", 1 Corinthians 15:28.

J.T. Yes. The idea of bondmanship hardly fits in with the eternal state of things. Yet we must not limit Christ's love. Indeed scripture says it "surpasses knowledge". It will be and do for us far beyond our greatest thoughts of it.

Eu.R. As Man, He is glorified with the glory which He had before the world was. That is outside of this consideration, is it not?

J.T. It is. John 17:5 contemplates that He returns to that glory.

J.S.E. Is the contrast to the bondman seen in the word "Lord" in verse 11?

J.T. Yes, every creature is subject to Him.

L.D.M. Does each of these steps imply the Lord's deity?

J.T. Yes; only a divine Person could leave His first state. His leaving His first state indicates His divine right. He is not here viewed as sent.

J.J. Would you say the inscrutability of His Person, suggested in these verses, is covered by the passage in Luke 10:22? It says, "All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and no one knows who the Son is

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but the Father, and who the Father is but the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son is pleased to reveal him".

J.T. Yes; and what we have here underlies that.

Ques. It says in Mark 13:32, "But of that day or of that hour no one knows, neither the angels who are in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father". Is He speaking there as One taking a subject place?

J.T. Yes. The introduction to the Apocalypse helps as to that. He received the Revelation from God: as John says, "Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him". He takes the place of receiving all from God, "and he signified it, sending by his angel, to his bondman John, who testified the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, all things that he saw", Revelation 1:1,2. He is there clearly in a subject place, and receives from God the facts relative to the future, a very remarkable thing, and then He signified it to His bondman John. The book of Revelation ought to be read from that point of view, that it is the Lord acting mediatorially, but receiving it from God. I think it is in that sense that He said, "nor the Son"; He takes that attitude of subjection.

E.J.McB. Is the apostle's intention in setting this out to the Philippians that we might understand and get the gain of the incarnation?

J.T. Yes; that we might have the full thought, that each one might learn how to humble himself: the will of God requires it, and it is the way out of all difficulties.

W.S.S. Is the object of this presentation that bondmen should be formed? The Revelation is to be shown to His bondmen. Paul and Timothy are delighted to speak of themselves as bondmen in the light of this scripture.

J.T. Quite so, and that is how the apostle introduces himself in the letter: "Paul and Timotheus, bondmen of Jesus Christ". The epistle would make us

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that, and would make us happy in the bondmanship, that it is a morally glorified state, glorified by the fact that God Himself has come into it in manhood. In Paul you would see the idea of one ready to go down. How he could say he was "less than the least of all saints" (Ephesians 3:8), I suppose, enters into this thought. Of course he said that truthfully.

H.D'A.C. It is a fine thought that God Himself had come into it. He did not cease to be God in it, but His deity was in the background.

J.T. It is what is before our eyes that Scripture deals with, showing at the same time that what was taken on was real in itself, but could not be compassed by the creature. We are met with inscrutability at every point. The gospels make Christ's humanity a fact, portraying it to us, a Man moving about here in service, and yet He is God. While as Man He cast out demons by the Spirit, He says His Father who dwelt in Him did the work. "Confessedly the mystery of piety is great. God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in the Spirit", 1 Timothy 3:16. Think of God taking a position where He is justified in the Spirit; not by His own prerogative, but in the Spirit!

J.T.S. Is the tendency with us ever to take the first place, but would the contemplation of the way in which the Lord Jesus has moved, lead us to take the last place?

J.T. The Psalms open this up wonderfully. What a place the Lord took! "I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and the despised of the people", Psalm 22:6. That is what He said He was, and we can only understand it in the light of these facts; and how it is Paul could say, I am "less than the least of all saints", Ephesians 3:8. It shows what conscious humiliation involves.

Ques. Would you say that the Lord Jesus acted as God at any time while down here in manhood?

J.T. Certainly; "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up", John 2:19; He did it Himself;

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it was the action of God. But His general position or state is manhood, and what is proper to it, so that laying down His life and taking it again is obeying the Father's commandment.

F.I. Do we get His deity in John 18:6, when He said, "I am", and they fell backward?

J.T. Yes; God was there.

Ques. Is the same thought seen in 2 Peter 1:1, where he says, "Our God and Saviour Jesus Christ"?

J.T. Quite so.

Eu.R. Is obedience one great feature that the Lord would have us take on in our assembly relations? He is referred to here as being marked by it Himself, and then the apostle goes on, "even as ye have always obeyed".

J.T. Yes. What follows in verse 12 is the outcome of what we are speaking of now, but 1 Timothy 3:16 helps as to what we are dealing with here: "Confessedly the mystery of piety is great. God has been manifested in flesh". Undoubtedly that is what is implied in the passage; it is God.

H.D'A.C. I believe there is no question about it myself.

J.T. Yes; that is what is meant; and that He should come into a position where He is "justified in the Spirit"! It is what came out in Christ in the power of the Spirit. It was humanity in dependence, but what came out was the justification of Himself, that He was undeniably God. Even although He did everything by the Spirit, no one but God could do them as He did them; even the apostles could not do things as He did them, although He said, "He that believes on me, the works which I do shall he do also, and he shall do greater than these". Although the works might be greater, they were not done as He did them.

A.N. Was it the exercise of His power as God when He arose and rebuked the wind and said to the sea, Peace, be still?

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J.T. It was. "Justified in the Spirit" would imply that He was anointed by the Spirit, and He went about doing good. Other men went about doing good, but not as He; the way He is doing things indicates plainly enough that God is there.

H.M.S. Is Isaiah 50:8 in mind? -- "He is near that justifieth me".

J.T. That is God justifying Him; as we get it in verse 9, "Wherefore also God highly exalted him", but being "justified in the Spirit" means that in carrying out the will of God, He did great works by the Spirit, but in such a way that God was manifestly there. Of course the Spirit is God, but the point is who was there in flesh.

H.D'A.C. The whole subject of piety is involved in that. The Lord respected every institution of God.

J.T. It is the "mystery of piety"; that God should be there in One marked by humility and dependence; He is there, and proved to be there, by what was done.

H.E.S. Is that seen in the remark made at the sea: "Who then is this?" Luke 8:25.

J.T. Quite so. He said, "He that believes on me, the works which I do shall he do also, and he shall do greater than these, because I go to the Father" (John 14:12); but the principle and testimony was that they did them in His name (Acts 3:16). He does not say, In the name of God I do so and so.

E.G. He raised the dead, but Peter had to pray to God in connection with the raising of Dorcas.

M.W.B. In this connection would you say a word as to the passage in Acts 2:22: "Jesus the Nazaraean, a man borne witness to by God to you by works of power and wonders and signs, which God wrought by him in your midst"? Would we be right in viewing the Lord's miraculous actions not so much as the assertion of His deity, but as the definite sign of God's approval of His service, though fully agreeing with what you

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said, of course, that He did things in a way that no one else could possibly do them?

J.T. That is also true, He being viewed as Man, God's servant. "God was with him", we are told. As the perfect servant, He carried on His service in that way, as sustained by God. He prayed, and the like of which we have often spoken, but then He was "justified in the Spirit" -- God was "justified in the Spirit". It is an evidence that God was there; and moreover He was "seen of angels". How did they see Him? They saw more than a Man; they saw what came out in the Spirit, the way things were done. God has come within the range of the creature in what was manifest. They were done by a Man, but the manner of the doing belonged to Deity -- to no one else, so that the position of the Deity in humanity is established beyond question: angels saw it.

A.N. It is well expressed in the words of the hymn:

"We see the Godhead glory
Shine through that human veil". (Hymn 188)

H.H. Do you think being "justified in the Spirit" would stand in contrast to the public justification of God in the world to come?

J.T. It shows the great place the Spirit has in this question.

Ques. Does He bring those two thoughts together when He says, "But if by the finger of God I cast out demons ..." (Luke 11:20)?

J.T. Well, the finger of God was there. If I see the finger of God, I see something of God. The writing on the wall in Daniel was by the fingers of a man's hand -- it was judgment. The finger of God is God acting with the utmost discrimination, but it is God acting, and hence you find the beneficiaries refer to God; they glorify God.

Ques. Are you suggesting that the condition into which the Lord came in manhood was not only required

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in order that it should express the mind of God, but that God Himself should come into that condition?

J.T. That is the wonderful inscrutability that marks the whole position. The flesh of Christ was a veil -- God was there. If God is pleased to come within our range, there is evidence that He is there.

E.B.G. Is the Lord's incoming and His outgoing by way of death, to be viewed as one whole pathway?

J.T. It is all one thing, and God is in every part of it. It is a question of what one would realise as with Him. "Am I so long a time with you, and thou hast not known me, Philip?" John 14:9. Thomas says, "My Lord and my God", John 20:28.

E.B.G. Should the greatness and glory and purity of the incarnation be before us at the Lord's supper as we view the loaf, as well as the Lord laying down His life?

J.T. I think so. In the Supper it is the body of Christ in death, but we cannot but think of it as for the will of God throughout, and its beginning, of course, was the incarnation.

H.H. Does not the holy personality of Christ in Incarnation, seen in the loaf, give a wonderful tone and character to the cup as presenting the covenant? We do not connect the covenant with the loaf, but does it not give character to the covenant as in the blood of such a wonderful Person?

J.T. Quite so. Who else could effectuate it? And it is the impression conveyed to the angels in that wonderful pathway that is referred to in 1 Timothy 3. So in the case of the man in Decapolis, the Lord said, "Return to thine house and relate how great things God has done for thee", but he said "how great things Jesus had done for him", Luke 8:39. He had a sense that God was doing it unquestionably, that God was there. Hence His name "Emmanuel".

Rem. As you said, the word of Thomas testifies to it: "My Lord and my God", John 20:28.

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J.T. What he saw in the Lord's hands and side showed the reality of His manhood, but yet he said, "My Lord and my God".

W.C. Would you say why the receiving up in glory is referred to after the preaching and believing on Him?

J.T. The verse seems to be poetical. It is to set out concisely the actual facts of the history of Christ in testimony; the main facts are presented: "God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in the Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among the nations, has been believed on in the world, has been received up in glory". The facts are put together so as to convey the full thought of the mystery of piety. What a verse! Yet that is what creatures can take in, because it has come out in testimony. It induces piety -- it is the mystery of it. Christians are normally initiated into it. To be of practical value to us we must be initiated into a mystery. Those thus initiated are a mystery to others. We ought to see that 1 Timothy 3:16 involves the impression made by what came out. What is behind what came out is unfathomable; it is beyond the creature, but nevertheless God is there.

Eu.R. Is the idea of being "manifest", that an impression is made?

J.T. Yes, it is involved.

Ques. Does "seen of angels" suggest that the angels never saw Him before?

J.T. Yes, but it does not mean that they saw the form of God. The form of God is not seen by any creature. It is a question of God being seen in what came out, and it all came out in a Man. It is the impression you get -- God was there.

W.C. It has been suggested that there is an allusion to the assembly in that last expression, as coming after the preaching and believing upon Him. Is there any warrant for that?

J.T. I do not think so; it alludes to the Lord, and how He was received up. It is a question of what was

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personal to the Lord. It is not received up into glory, but "in glory"; it is the manner of His reception. "Received up" -- the antecedent there is God.

A.S.L. I was going to ask whether what was true of Him as it is unfolded in that remarkable verse, is not in some sense continued in the assembly. The manifestation of God in flesh in that blessed Person is continued in the saints now. And then, "justified in the Spirit" in contrast to the flesh; there has been no public justification, but there is the sense of it inwardly. Then the assembly will disappear in glory.

J.T. You are just working it out by extension to apply it to the assembly, but "God" -- or 'He', as some think it should be -- mentioned at the beginning, will not admit of that, as far as I see. The direct teaching of the verse applies to God.

D.L.H. Is it not all objective? The passage is a complete circle; God coming out from glory and going back there. It completes the circle, and you can hardly bring the assembly in there.

J.T. "Received up in glory" is the Person of Christ, I am sure. The tense is past -- "was", not "is being" nor "shall be".

M.W.B. Why is it the "mystery of piety"? Does not that imply man's relations Godward? What is the thought of piety?

J.T. It is bringing God into your circumstances, but then, God has come into man's circumstances, and the great mystery attaching to that is what is in mind -- the depths of thought and feeling involved -- the "depths of God". The facts given are to show how God has come into man's circumstances, how He is to be known and the state produced, and living "piously in Christ Jesus" would result. Piety is not in legal observances, but in the true knowledge of God.

H.D'A.C. Does that remain a mystery or is it divulged to us?

J.T. It is a mystery, but, as remarked, true believers

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are initiated into it. God is known to be there, but you cannot compass what is there. You always feel there is that which is beyond us.

W.C.G. What is the connection between this and the working out your own salvation in verse 12?

J.T. The exhortation there is as to how the company at Philippi, or any local assembly, works out its own salvation. The instruction is intended to enable us to do this, so that it says, "So that, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed" -- he had been speaking of the obedience of Jesus -- "not as in my presence only, but now much rather in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you both the willing and the working according to his good pleasure". The apostle was not there, although he hoped to come, but they had always obeyed; and now further thoughts had come in as to obedience, and they are enjoined to work out their own salvation in fear and trembling. But then, God was there; God was working in them. It is involved in "ye have always obeyed". In Christ, He has brought in the great thoughts of obedience and humility, and these are to enter into our experience and history in the testimony; for as ministry comes to us, the intent is that it should be worked out, and that it should greatly augment our future walk and testimony. The section beginning with verse 12 has this in mind. It is a question now of the brethren moving together after all this, and what he has in mind is the increase of the testimony. He says, "it is God who works in you both the willing and the working according to his good pleasure". That is, both in the willing and the working, God is there. What the apostle has been saying is to enlarge the saints and to accelerate their pace in the testimony, and he further exhorts them: "Do all things without murmurings and reasonings, that ye may be harmless and simple, irreproachable children of God in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation; among

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whom ye appear as lights in the world, holding forth the word of life, so as to be a boast for me in Christ's day, that I have not run in vain nor laboured in vain". Their position is clearly defined; it is not that they should appear, but they were appearing as lights.

W.L. Does not the greatness of the example, in verses 5 - 11, of the mind "in Christ Jesus" give dignity to these circumstances that the apostle was bringing before them, the ordinary circumstances of everyday life?

J.T. That is what is in mind. If an accession of light comes to us, it is to enter into what we are already going on with. It should give greater fulness and brilliancy to our testimony, so that if we already appear as lights, we are to be even more luminous than before. It is for Christ's day, you will observe: "to be a boast for me in Christ's day". It is very interesting to see how he is looking forward to his part in Christ's day, not only his personal formation, but what he has done, his work, that which is to appear in Christ's day. Then, "that I have not run in vain nor laboured in vain. But if also I am poured out as a libation on the sacrifice and ministration of your faith, I rejoice, and rejoice in common with you all. In like manner do ye also rejoice, and rejoice with me". You are impressed with the idea of rejoicing. What character it gives to the saints, that they are buoyant spiritually and participating in his joy!

M.W.B. You have referred to the way we die. Is this libation a reference to that idea?

J.T. Yes; it is a pouring out. It is making more agreeable to God what is in mind. He says here, "But if also I am poured out as a libation on the sacrifice and ministration of your faith, I rejoice". It would be the manner of his going into death, that he was poured out, as in the pouring out of wine, or any other liquid, on a sacrifice, showing how pure his thoughts were in view of possible martyrdom. The word refers to what

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is poured out sacrificially in relation to something else, to make that "something" more fragrant and acceptable. The apostle was not in Philippi, he was in prison at Rome, but he was occupied in the ministration of their faith, and his death would be most fragrant to God as bearing on all his wonderful service; as he says, "I, from Jerusalem, and in a circuit round to Illyricum, have fully preached the glad tidings of the Christ", Romans 15:19. His whole service was to be most fragrant; as he says, "that the offering up of the nations might be acceptable" (verse 16). He was to add a drink offering, making the whole matter most fragrant to God.

M.W.B. Then, does "the sacrifice and ministration of your faith" refer to his service generally, and the pouring out "as a libation" to the crowning act which gave it a sweetness in his martyrdom?

J.T. Yes. The libation is not something by itself, here it is to be added to Paul's service to make it more acceptable.

Ques. Is that confirmed when the apostle says that he was already being poured out?

J.T. That is the idea. It is the end of the service. How many servants have missed this idea of libation! The manner of your death makes all you have done more acceptable to God.

Eu.R. Does the libation link with the thought of joy? It says, "I rejoice, and rejoice in common with you all. In like manner do ye also rejoice, and rejoice with me".

J.T. The thought of the libation enters into all that, and suggests the idea of joy. The servant has to bear in mind it is not how he begins, or his service generally, but whether the libation is to be there, whether the whole matter is to become fragrant on account of one's end. Immediately he says further, "But I hope in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus to you shortly, that I also may be refreshed, knowing how ye get on". That is to say, the idea of the libation runs into that. He is

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thinking of them and speaking of Timotheus in this connection. He is bringing personalities into the service, rendering it all the more fragrant to God. The whole chapter is characterised by this libation, and in Timotheus and Epaphroditus you have the filling out of this great thought in service. How great it is when you get such personages as Paul and Timotheus and Epaphroditus!

L.M. Do those three men correspond with the three mighty men of David, working unselfishly for the gratification of the heart of David?

J.T. Yes. That thought enters into this, and the idea of libation is very exalted. You can scarcely conceive of a more exalted thought in connection with service than that one should finish up by enhancing all he has done for God.

J.J. And the way the apostle refers to Epaphroditus in chapter 4 is in keeping: "Not that I seek gift, but I seek fruit abounding to your account. But I have all things in full supply and abound; I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things sent from you, an odour of sweet savour, an acceptable sacrifice, agreeable to God", Philippians 4:17,18.

Rem. Our concern should be as to what we can do to enhance the position. There is not only the going down, but the looking on with joy to the approbation of God. The apostle could crown Timothy with this thought: "For I have no one like-minded who will care with genuine feeling how ye get on" -- and Epaphroditus: "my brother and fellow-workman and fellow-soldier, but your messenger and minister to my need, since he had a longing desire after you all".

J.T. Quite so. God always looks down from heaven to see if there is any good, and you want to enhance what there is. I believe that is what comes out here, and that is the connection with Timotheus and Epaphroditus. What a brother Epaphroditus was! "Your messenger and minister to my need", Paul says. They

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had sent through him to the apostle "an odour of sweet savour, an acceptable sacrifice, agreeable to God"; and now he is returning to them, and he would surely enhance the position in Philippi.

W.C.G. What you have been saying emphasises the thought that before honour is humility. Divine approbation of service requires the lustre of humility.

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THE SUPPLY OF THE SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST (5)

Philippians 3

J.T. It would be good to touch again on some of the points mentioned in chapter 2, and in this chapter, also, we should notice the mention of certain ones alluded to as "enemies of the cross of Christ" -- a remarkable expression. It is said in chapter 2 that the Lord became "obedient even unto death, and that the death of the cross", alluding to the agonising and extremely humiliating character of His death, and carrying with it, according to other scriptures, the idea of the curse, as is said, "Cursed is every one hanged upon a tree", Galatians 3:13. The occasion of the curse reminds us of what we are in the flesh, so that we may apply it to ourselves in a collective way, as in Romans, "our old man has been crucified with him" (Romans 6:6), and then individually, "I am crucified with Christ", Galatians 2:20.

Ques. Is the cross the termination of the bond-service of Christ?

J.T. I would not say that. The thought is carried on, and the idea of bond-service may be taken up at any time. Is that your own thought?

Rem. I was trying to get clear as to what you had in mind in your reference to Exodus 21:6 -- being a bondman for ever.

J.T. It is to bring out the length to which love will go: "I love my master, my wife, and my children", but it must not be assumed that bondmanship covers all that Christ is as having become Man, either before or after the cross. As Man He can act on that principle at any time, showing the extent to which love will go. Love is itself, whether you see it descending into the depths of death or ascending far above all heavens; it is love in either case. Ascending "that he might fill all things" (Ephesians 4:10) enables Him to serve as He could not serve

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otherwise. Taking a bondman's form is formally and definitely humiliation. His exaltation is God's act in answer to the descent and sufferings, and has not bondmanship in view.

Ques. Do you make a distinction between bondmanship and the Lord's ordinary service?

J.T. Not much. "I am in the midst of you as the one that serves" (Luke 22:27), is that principle, although there is another word used for the service involving the worship of God, and He is the Minister of that. That is not bondmanship. Exodus 21 shows the extent to which love will go; it is a question of love, but Exodus 28, spiritually understood, shows how the same Person is clothed with dignity. The priestly habiliments refer to personal dignity, but it is the servant still, only the word carries dignity: Jehovah says, "that he may serve me as priest". The idea of bondmanship is not in the priesthood, but still it is the same Person, and it is service.

H.E.S. Is it intended especially to be by way of contrast, showing the depths of shame to which the Lord descended, and then the heights of glory to which He is raised?

J.T. That is the idea. Exodus 21 shows the depths to which love went, and chapter 28 shows the heights, because we have to take Exodus 28 into Hebrews, where the One who descended in love is passed beyond all heavens -- and so in Ephesians. So that if the exigencies of the position required it, He would take on service, such as you might call bondman service. He is ready to do it, but doing it does not in any way detract from His personal glory; nor is it imposed upon Him.

W.J.H. Do you think Peter failed to understand that when he said, "Lord, dost thou wash my feet", John 13:6? He thought it would detract from the Lord.

J.T. Exactly. The service is the radiation of love; in truth love is shining there. Whilst the Lord was

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acting in service He was Himself, and His Person gave dignity to the action that no other person could give. But when He laid aside the symbols of service and put on His own garments and seated Himself at table again, He is to be regarded as in His personal dignity.

Ques. In Deuteronomy 15, you get a similar expression: "he shall be thy bondman for ever". Has that a bearing on it?

J.T. It is the Deuteronomic way of putting it, and applies more to believers. Exodus gives the thing more in detail to typify Christ and to bring out the love that exists in Him. In chapter 20 we have the thousands of those that love God; but then here is One that says, "I love", and shows it in all that He does. He could go out free, but He goes to the doorpost and has His ear bored, all because He loves, and glory radiates in the movement.

Ques. You do not carry the thought of "for ever" into eternity?

J.T. I do in the sense in which we have been speaking of it. It is a question of what the Lord may do, provided we keep clear in our minds that it does not cover His whole position or Person; it is a question of what He may do. We know what He is, and if He would show His love for some in an especial way He will "make them recline at table, and coming up will serve them", Luke 12:37. He can do that. It is love in Him acting to honour some of His own for a particular reason.

Ques. Does the passage in John 17 touch on the subject? "I sanctify myself for them" (verse 19).

J.T. Yes; it means that He has taken His present position on our account; it goes above and beyond millennial glory. His sanctification means that there He is setting Himself apart for the moment in view of the assembly and of christianity. It is His present place, the place of God's counsels for man, and it is that they also might be sanctified, and how? Through the truth, the truth that has come out by the Spirit

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as to Christ's present position in glory, in order to bring us into it. The Lord's present place, the wonderful place of exaltation that man has during the present period, is to bring out the heavenly side of the purpose of God. The truth would mean, therefore, that they should be taken out from the Jewish setting to the much higher calling that the eternal purpose of God required for them. He sets forth that as He is in heaven now, and the Holy Spirit brings out the truth of it. We are to be affected by it and sanctified accordingly; not for a position in the millennium, but for heavenly glory, and He is the measure of our sanctification.

E.J.McB. The question of the cross terminating certain things has a much more serious side to it than perhaps we realise. The cross evidently is the means whereby the flesh and the world's system are closed up, but it does not terminate anything that is of moral beauty in the sight of God, such as the service of Christ, which is evidently continued as in Luke 12, as pointed out, and in the gospel of John, when He says, "Come and dine" (John 21:12).

J.T. Exactly; He had evidently prepared the meal for them. The fire was there, and the bread, and the fish laid thereon; that was evidently His own doing. If we get the full idea of love as it is in Christ, into our minds, the thought of termination of bondmanship disappears.

M.W.B. Is it desirable to draw a distinction between the relation of the bondman Godward -- the taking of the bondman's form as answering to the Hebrew servant -- and the activities of love which had relation, not only to the master, but to the wife and the children? It was hardly the position of bondman to the wife and the children, but bondman to the master, but the love was exercised both to the master and the wife and the children.

J.T. It is the universality of love, that is, the ascending love, the horizontal love, and the descending

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love. Love delights to serve its objects, but in the type the bondmanship is in relation to the master, and we are told that the Son is to be "placed in subjection to him who put all things in subjection to him, that God may be all in all", 1 Corinthians 15:28. There is nothing derogatory in His taking up that attitude at any time, but that does not cover His position, because He is constantly alluded to as God; you cannot apply bondmanship there.

Eu.R. As to the cross, in 1 Corinthians the Lord is referred to as crucified, but here He becomes obedient to the death of the cross, and in Colossians we read that God nailed certain things to the cross. Would you say a word as to that?

J.T. John alludes to it peculiarly under the phrase, "lifted up". First, "as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, thus must the Son of man be lifted up" (John 3:14). That was the divine necessity to carry out the divine thoughts; the Lord accepted it as a divine necessity; He must be "lifted up". Then later, "When ye shall have lifted up the Son of man" (John 8:28); that was man's doing. Then again, "I, if I be lifted up out of the earth, will draw all to me" (John 12:32), meaning that the ignominy of it did not becloud His attractiveness, but rather that His personal attractiveness shone out in it. We are told there what is meant, that it was the "death he was about to die", a real and agonising death, but in spite of that, He should become the centre for all: because He says, "I ... will draw all to me".

A.J.G. Is the death of the cross brought in in this passage to show the length to which obedience would go?

J.T. That is the thought: "even the death of the cross". That is the kind of death; His obedience went to that extreme. It is from His own point of view, knowing well what it meant; His obedience went as far as that. Hence, we get, "he went out, bearing his

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cross" (John 19:17); they laid it on Him, and we are enjoined in Hebrews 13, to "go forth to him" in spite of the cross, and not only that, but carrying it ourselves -- "bearing his reproach", the allusion being to His cross.

A.J.G. So it becomes the climax, morally, of the excellence that attaches to the mind that was in Christ Jesus.

J.T. Exactly, that He would go that far. The intent is that we should come into correspondence with that, and of course we accept the necessity for it. In His case it was vicarious; there was nothing in Him to merit it, but in our case it is merited. That is, the more you discern yourself, the more spiritual you are, the more you own that the cross of Christ alone could terminate, according to the majesty and holiness of God, what man in the flesh is. A young believer does not come to it quickly, but it is the meanness of the flesh, what I am, the depths of meanness and incorrigibleness that one discovers in one's heart. God took up the Jew to show how dreadful the flesh is. Looking abroad we see it worked out in the whole race, but especially in the Jew, and we say, "our old man", that is the collective idea, "has been crucified with him, that the body of sin might be annulled". The body of sin is annulled; it ceases to work as thus judged in the believer. To make it more individual, the apostle says, "I am crucified with Christ". That is the point to be reached. Galatians stresses that: "I am crucified with Christ, and no longer live, I, but Christ lives in me", Galatians 2:20. It is not simply that I have died with Christ, but I am crucified, meaning that I have come to God's mind as to myself, as responsible in the flesh as expressed in the cross. It is the utter meanness and wickedness of what one is, and that its true desert according to God is crucifixion.

W.J.H. One of the two that were hanged with Jesus said, "we indeed justly".

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Rem. There could be no possible reviving, or reinstatement of that man.

J.T. I think Joshua helps and prepares us typically for this extremely solemn matter. In chapter 10 the kings were put into a cave, then the military men put their feet on their necks and they are hanged by the order of Joshua. They were the Canaanitish kings, really alluding anticipatively to the Jew and the way sin developed in him, in spite of the greatest privileges accorded to him.

Eu.R. Colossians says: "having nailed it to the cross; having spoiled principalities and authorities, he made a show of them publicly, leading them in triumph by it", Colossians 2:14,15.

J.T. Meaning that all that is against us, ceremonial show, ordinances and the like, attaching to man in the flesh, is annulled, and that is very touching, because the nailing really alludes to the hands of Christ. The Lord was made all that. Then, "leading them in triumph by it", by the cross, shows what the thought of the cross is in christianity. It, as accepted, is the practical condemnation of the ceremonialism that is so prevalent in christendom.

J.J. In chapter 2 would it be more in connection with the thought of a Model rather than atonement, corresponding with chapter 3:17, which says, "fix your eyes on those walking thus as you have us for a model; for many walk of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ"?

J.T. Christ is of course the Model in chapter 2. The will of God required the acceptance of such a death as that, and no doubt the apostle was conformed to it. "You have us for a model", he says. Those that he alludes to were enemies of the cross, which would mean that they were enemies of it as worked out in such as Paul. Possibly they would not be enemies of it doctrinally, but as worked out in the saints, in the

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acceptance of what it means, including reproach. If men are not regenerate they do not like that, and that is largely the reason of the opposition. It is what true discipleship of Christ is, and men do not like it; there is reproach attached to it. To be a nominal christian is quite acceptable, but to be conformed to the death of Christ, even to the cross, is not acceptable in the world; it is very objectionable, and hence the opposition. They are the enemies, not exactly of Christ, but of the cross of Christ.

J.J. Is that why he describes all he is here in chapter 3, and shows that all his honours as a man in the flesh are gone in the cross?

J.T. Quite so; that is how he looks at them.

H.H. In Corinthians it says, "Jesus Christ, and him crucified", 1 Corinthians 2:2. I suppose that is not quite the side of atonement, but more the moral application of the cross of Christ.

J.T. Just so, and "the word of the cross", too, in chapter 1:18. That is what is so important. What is always needed to be stressed is the "word of the cross"; the apostle boasted in it. The real import of it is opened up in the word of it, and it is what the apostle insisted upon at Corinth, to keep out the Greek, that type of man that would boast in himself and his culture.

Ques. What would be the significance of the "cross of Jesus"? "By the cross of Jesus stood ..." John 19:25.

J.T. There it is the Lord in a personal sense. Look at the group of women standing there! His mother was there, and every one of them loved Jesus. It is a question of the Person. The cross of Christ, of course, is more the general or official thought, Christ being the One whom God had taken up to do His will. Jesus is more the personal thought -- the One who has endeared Himself to me. That is how it stands in John 19; a group of lovers of Jesus were there, standing by His cross -- near enough to be spoken to by Him.

A.S.L. He does not say, enemies of Christ, but

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"enemies of the cross of Christ". Men make a certain boast of Christ as a model man, but it is the cross of Christ that is so offensive.

J.T. That is right. As we were remarking, many are nominally christians, and being a christian nominally is not exactly objectionable in the world.

A.S.L. Would you enlarge on the expression, the "word of the cross"?

J.T. "Word" there, as you know, is the opening up of the thing, conveying the bearing of it, which of course 1 Corinthians has in mind.

W.B-w. Do you think that the introduction of circumcision in Philippians 3 would refer to the cross: "Jesus Christ, and him crucified"?

J.T. Yes. "For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and boast in Christ Jesus, and do not trust in flesh". That inquiry brings us to our chapter, and you will observe the words, "For the rest". It is as if the apostle is about to finish, but his heart is so full of his subject -- full of love for Christ, and full of love for the Philippians -- that he continues, and we have two more chapters. It is the idea not of a calculated, but of a developed production, the thing opening up of itself and enlarging as he went on, so that he says, "For the rest, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord". The apostle, among other things, is marked by rejoicing; and then he says, "to write the same things to you, to me is not irksome, and for you safe", evidently alluding to things he had already said to them. It was not irksome to him to say them again, but it was safe for them. Then he calls attention to the thing against which we ought to be on our guard; he says, "See to dogs, see to evil workmen, see to the concision". We have already said that the soil selected for this result -- the Philippian assembly -- was free from judaising influence; there was no synagogue mentioned as being in the city, and apparently the assembly was free from that element; thus the dangers

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of this kind which had to be met were generally outside. It was not so at Corinth, nor in Galatia; the evils working in these places were inside, but it is external dangers that are particularly in mind in this epistle. They were to be on their guard against them, and the first thing is "dogs".

Ques. Would Acts 15 be the inside dangers, and this chapter those outside?

J.T. Yes. Acts 15 contemplates that the enemy had instrumentalities inside. False brethren had crept in unawares. Certain persons had come down from Judaea and introduced judaism at Antioch; these found a footing in the assembly. Jerusalem is the centre of judaising influence, so that when Peter was in Antioch, it was persons who came from James that influenced him against the truth; Barnabas also was affected. But here they were outside: "See to dogs". There is no suggestion that dogs are inside at Philippi.

J.T.S. Would the affectionate feelings that mark the lovers of Jesus be found in the main with the Philippians, in contrast to the lack of them in the general profession? "For dogs have encompassed me; an assembly of evil-doers have surrounded me: they pierced my hands and my feet", Psalm 22:16.

J.T. That sort of thing would now encompass the assembly, because the same elements that put Christ on the cross would put the lovers of Christ there. These dogs allude to persons without remorse or conscience, and it is impossible to help people who have no conscience. If a man has a conscience there is some hope of influencing him rightly, but without it you can do nothing with him. There is no question of trying to help a dog; you keep away from him -- and also "evil workers", and "the concision".

Ques. Does the apostle make way for the "excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord"?

J.T. That is what he was aiming at in these verses, to keep the assembly clear of these external foes.

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F.C.H. Does the expression in the prayer in chapter 1 bear on it -- "in order that ye may be pure"?

J.T. Quite so. It has often been pointed out that the concision is only a parody of the real thing; it is a profession that I am going in for some cutting off, but I do not go the whole way. There was some kind of cutting, but it did not go all the way; it was not circumcision.

Ques. Is circumcision brought in here to maintain the saints in their heavenly character?

J.T. Quite so; it refers to a heavenly people properly. As a type, it came in in Genesis 17. It alludes to a heavenly people, and it was accepted. Abraham circumcised all that were in his house "that same day". It was the day in which God had broken off the conversation with Abraham, and had gone up. That is, typically at least, Abraham apprehended the mind of God, and he immediately applied circumcision to himself and every male in his house -- that very day. Then the next chapter brings in the significance of the position: he gets a heavenly visitation -- God Himself comes back to him. It is to show that the link between Him and Abraham should not be after the flesh at all -- that is cut off. "We are the circumcision" refers to a heavenly people, those who carry on the service of God. Those dogs and people of the concision, no doubt, could talk about the service of God, too. The old system was still at Jerusalem, and carried on there as heretofore, but Paul says, "we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and boast in Christ Jesus, and do not trust in flesh" -- who "worship": the idea of the divine service according to Hebrews, the public service of God carried on in a spiritual way. True christians worship God; they carry on the service by the Spirit, boast in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

A.S.L. Does he use the word "concision" as a term

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of reproach? He would not honour those folk with being the circumcision.

J.T. It brings out the position today, as it was then. Of course, the allusion would be to judaism, the old system carrying on the so-called service of God, but the apostle could point to persons who were carrying it on really. It is not here merely that doctrinally or theoretically there is such a thing, but that we are doing it; it is a question of what is going on. John's ministry would suggest it, as the Lord said, "Come and see", John 1:39. If any one be genuinely affected by God, he will not be content with what is said or written, but will want to see the thing. What is this service of God? It is current today. What can be called the service or worship of God, what is for God is going on, and it is an important point for all christians to come and see it. That is what should be before us. Is there anything acceptable to God that people can see?

Ques. So you would invite such a person to the morning meeting?

J.T. If any one is really exercised of God, the assembly is the place for him -- to see what goes on there. We need not be afraid; let them come; "we are the circumcision", the apostle says. The other is not the real thing; there is some show of being of God, but it is not the real thing at all. Yet the real circumcision exists; those who go the whole way, and it is a great challenge to us in our meetings, whether we do go the whole way.

A.S.L. So true circumcision being of God, Paul does not set it aside, but it has its reality with spiritual christians.

F.I. Is it the service of God carried on in the power of the Spirit apart from the flesh?

J.T. That is the thing. If exercised souls come into our meetings, what do they see? If we go the whole way in our exercises as to the assembly, judging ourselves as we meet together, the worship of God is

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there; the Spirit of God is there. One great feature of the tabernacle was the anointing -- every part was anointed, and, as set up, all was functioning. In the antitype, the assembly, what a spectacle this is for anyone to see! That is what is in mind: "we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and boast in Christ Jesus, and do not trust in flesh".

J.T.S. Would the concision be seen in king Saul saving the best of the flocks, and cutting off the worst?

J.T. It is that sort of thing. He saved the best and devoted the worst for destruction.

Ques. I would like to ask whether Paul's thought here as to a worshipping company is bringing into view what the Lord said to the woman in John 4:23: "the hour is coming and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth"?

J.T. It is. John uses a somewhat different word for the service; he uses a word for worship that involves more personal affection, but it is the same idea. The service of God is carried on in the power of the Spirit.

Rem. As it was in Solomon's day, the queen of Sheba came and actually saw the thing.

J.T. Yes, it was going on; she saw the ascent by which he went up to the house of Jehovah, and that evidently is what most affected her.

A.S.L. Do you regard the evil workers as outside?

J.T. I do. The apostle is not insinuating that there are any of those elements in Philippi. The meeting there is immune so far from those elements, but they are in danger of them, the terrible judaising agents that dogged the service of the apostle from the very outset, which he speaks so strongly about, particularly in this chapter.

W.S.S. In connection with your remark as to going the whole way, I take it that the Galatians and Colossians did not go the whole way, but that the acceptance of the cross, at least in measure, preserved them at

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Philippi, and hence there was the possibility of the service of God there.

J.T. Quite so. The Galatians were "stopped". Satan would stop the work of God, and ministry is used to watch over it and prevent this. That was the intent in the Galatian epistle, that the elements that were stopping the work of God should be exposed and refused.

W.C.G. If we go the whole way, do we reach the "calling on high of God in Christ Jesus"?

J.T. That is what we come to. What we shall see as we proceed is the great energy in this christian, because whilst it is the apostle speaking here, it is a christian. This epistle is to open up christianity to us, and it is exemplified in one man, and happily to a great extent in the company at Philippi. Christianity was there, and what is in mind is to improve on what is there. Conditions at Philippi were delightful, and the apostle is unstinted in the way he speaks of them and what they were to him. But now he calls attention to himself in this chapter as a christian in his inward objective and outlook and energy. In chapter 1 he calls attention to his circumstances in Rome, what he was in them under the government of God. In chapter 4 he says, "as to me I have learnt in those circumstances in which I am, to be satisfied in myself", Philippians 4:11. He calls attention to himself in his circumstances in relation to the government of God, but now he is dealing with his inward motives, objective and energy, so that we have set out in this chapter a model in this respect. It is a christian that is presented to us here. If he says "we are the circumcision", he means christians characteristically. As regards himself, he goes on to speak of what he could boast in, as men after the flesh boast, and he says, I count them all but loss and filth. And why? Because of what is superior. It is no mere sentiment; it is a man in the possession of what is infinitely superior, and the mighty energy that operated

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in him to reach forward to the full thought of God for him. That is what you get here, and so we have the standard for christians as to their inward motives and objectives, the giving up of all that interferes with that, so that we might reach what we are apprehended for: "the prize", as he says, "of the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus".

Ques. Would what the apostle says in this part indicate that he was in the gain of what the Lord Jesus said in Mark 8:34: "Whoever desires to come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross and follow me"?

J.T. That is the idea, only it is the disciples' own cross there.

J.H.T. Is Paul in this chapter showing himself to be in accord with his prayer for them in verse 10 of chapter 1, in connection with the things that are more excellent?

J.T. You have in mind that one should be in accord with what he may present to others, to show that it is really governing himself. What is presented here is marked by excellency: "the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord".

Eu.R. Is it not perhaps more easy to suffer the loss of all things at the commencement of the course than to be maintained in this energy that would count all but filth?

J.T. That is what we may see, the way the apostle was sustained throughout. The figure he uses in the body of the chapter is that of an athlete stretching out in skilled energy, energy under control, not beating the air. So he is attaining the best results in himself, and this raises the whole question as to what one is inwardly, as to whether one has made an analysis of himself inwardly, and how he is looking at himself as in this great matter, whether all the organs are under control, so that there is no wasted energy. You are

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aiming at the greatest goal and you will not allow anything to hinder.

H.E.S. Is the idea that we should be satisfied with nothing short of perfection? He speaks of completeness at the beginning of the epistle, and perfection in this part.

J.T. Yes. He deals first in his specific reckoning with righteousness. After going over the things he could boast in, he says, "what things were gain to me these I counted, on account of Christ, loss. But surely I count also all things to be loss on account of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, on account of whom I have suffered the loss of all, and count them to be filth, that I may gain Christ; and that I may be found in him, not having my righteousness, which would be on the principle of law, but that which is by faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God through faith, to know him and the power of his resurrection". In this great effort that he has entered upon -- for it is an effort and he admits he has not reached the goal yet -- he brings in righteousness as one of the things that had a great place in his mind, that he should have the righteousness of God, and how it is acquired. It is his effort to attain the heavenly thing as a real christian, prizing everything that is proper to a christian, from the very foundation upwards.

Ques. He speaks much of counting -- what is in his mind?

J.T. It shows that he is a man that reckons accurately. He has a full understanding of what he is in his moral being, and he reckons things accurately. But this question of righteousness is most important, because to attempt to go further without this matter settled, without being clear in our souls as to this kind of righteousness and how it is acquired, is only futile.

Eu.R. Is there any difference between righteousness here, and in 2 Corinthians 5:21 -- "that we might become God's righteousness in him"?

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J.T. Here it is "not having my righteousness ... but that which is by faith"; it is the righteousness that we have in Romans. It is having the thing; not being made it. In 2 Corinthians we are made it.

F.S.M. Would you say that verse 10 comprises true spiritual desire that should govern us throughout our journey? There are three thoughts, "to know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings". I suppose if any man on earth at that moment knew Christ, it was Paul, and yet he could desire to know Him.

J.T. It reminds us that we can never fully compass Christ. No one knew Him better, yet he tells us the great desire of his heart was that he might know Him, and he groups the other things with it, "to know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being conformed to his death, if any way I arrive at the resurrection from among the dead". It is the richness of this grouping that impresses one. Those four thoughts suggest uniformity; that I am not developed on one point only. I believe many pursue one line, right in itself, but uniformity of growth is the great idea in Scripture.

Ques. Would "the fellowship of his sufferings" be calculated to keep us in true balance?

J.T. Yes. It is first, the kind of righteousness as Romans opens it up, that which is of God; and how it is acquired, that is, by faith. Then, "the fellowship of his sufferings" and "being conformed to his death", would be the public effect. Then, "if any way I arrive at the resurrection from among the dead". That is over Jordan, not the public side of our position. Literally it is seen only in one Person, that is Christ, but the arrival at it in spiritual apprehension and realisation is what he is aiming at. It is open to us all to taste of that realm -- by the power that dwelleth in us.

H.D'A.C. It is resurrection from among the dead.

J.T. It takes you out of the realm of the dead.

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J.T.S. Is there something of that with the apostle in 2 Corinthians? He presents himself as knowing something of the power of resurrection, of bearing about in his body the "dying of Jesus", and then, as knowing himself as a "man in Christ".

J.T. The second epistle contemplates a very great advance in the apostle's experience. He could hardly have written the second epistle were it not for those experiences, that he was nigh unto death, but God who raises the dead came in and delivered him from so great a death. He is qualified thus to write such a feeling letter as compared with the first one.

E.J.McB. Paul here is not concerned about his actual resurrection, because that was a certainty, but that he might arrive at it now in spiritual history.

J.T. Quite so. We shall certainly all arrive at it, every one that is "Christ's at his coming", but the point is to arrive at it now.

W.C.G. Is that the prize spoken of in verse 14?

J.T. Verse 13 begins, "Brethren, I do not count to have got possession myself; but one thing -- forgetting the things behind, and stretching out to the things before, I pursue, looking towards the goal, for the prize of the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus". The goal goes beyond the resurrection from among the dead; it is the heavenly position.

H.E.S. Why does the apostle speak of not having reached perfection, and then say in verse 15: "As many therefore as are perfect, let us be thus minded"?

J.T. We should go back to verse 12: "Not that I have already obtained the prize, or am already perfected; but I pursue ..." "Not that I have already obtained" is the thought in his mind, that he had not reached the end in view, "or am already perfected"; that is, he has not come to the full thought of God about him, "but I pursue, if also I may get possession of it, seeing that also I have been taken possession of by Christ Jesus".

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That is the general thought in his mind. And then in verse 15, "As many therefore as are perfect, let us be thus minded". What is meant there is just full growth. It is not the perfecting he mentions in verse 12. It is not the full and absolute thought of God in the earlier verse. There is what is called perfection in Scripture, meaning that one is fully developed; there may be other things to be reached, but he is classified as one fully developed, and as such we take account of one another and move together; as it says, "Be imitators all together of me, brethren, and fix your eyes on those walking thus as you have us for a model". He represented full manhood in his walk.

J.J. Do you think the passage in 2 Timothy 4 would show that the desire of his heart had been reached? "For I am already being poured out, and the time of my release is come. I have combated the good combat, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth the crown of righteousness is laid up for me". Would that be subsequent to that which we have here?

J.T. It would. He is alluding there to his path of responsibility and service, but here he is alluding to "the calling on high" -- the full thought of God, according to His purpose.

M.W.B. Would you say a word as to the force of "if any way", or, if by any means, "I arrive at the resurrection from among the dead"? I am not quite clear as to this having an exclusively moral aspect, whether there was in the apostle's mind this thought also, that if necessary he would even go through death itself.

J.T. It seems to me it is a question of what he would reach in this setting; that is, he speaks about the righteousness of God, the fellowship of Christ's sufferings, and being conformed to His death. They are the things that are in his mind, and then he says, "if any way I arrive at the resurrection from among the dead". The force of it is in keeping with what he has been

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saying, the energy going on in his soul to realise these things during the period of his life here.

Eu.R. Was Caleb in this spirit all through the wilderness, and did he in the power of developed strength take possession of the prize, so to speak?

J.T. He had it in his mind. There had been something definitely communicated to him by Moses, and as in Canaan, he claimed it. I think that illustrates the energy we are speaking of: "I am still this day strong, as in the day that Moses sent me: as my strength was then, even so is my strength now", Joshua 14:11. "I arrive", implies energy; it is the end I have before me. It is not "the goal", which goes on beyond resurrection to what Christ is now in heavenly glory. That is the end he has in mind -- Christ has apprehended me for something, and I want to know and reach that.

W.B-w. Is the prize, the "calling on high"?

J.T. Yes, "stretching out to the things before, I pursue, looking towards the goal". It is an athletic allusion; the great objective is the goal. Then he says, "for the prize" -- because the goal has to be reached before the prize is obtained -- "the prize of the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus". You must get the thought of the goal, that there is a definite mark before you, and the prize is after that. These things are of great reality in the exercises of a spiritual man.

H.D'A.C. Do you think Paul himself illustrates what you might call "any way" (verse 11)? He was let down in a basket; that was a burial basket. Now, he sought the experience of resurrection from among the dead.

J.T. Quite. "Any way" would indicate the prominence this thought had with him. It is as if he must reach it.

A.A.E. Do you understand "conformed to his death" to be entirely moral?

J.T. I do.

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H.D'A.C. The goal was what he kept in view, and then the prize would be the result.

J.T. That is the idea. The prize is in my heart, but as running, my eyes are on the goal, and I have to reach that point.

W.C.G. Does the first clause of verse 9 refer to the order of manhood, "that I may be found in him"?

J.T. I suppose the "in" there is status, the position in which he is to be. It is a preposition that involves status and certain power in it, so that it precludes all that is natural.

Ques. Verse 15 says "let us be thus minded". Does that stand in connection with what we have had in this chapter and distinct from "this mind" in chapter 2?

J.T. That is right. In chapter 2 it is the descending mind. In this verse it is the mind characterising those who are perfect. "As many therefore as are perfect, let us be thus minded; and if ye are any otherwise minded, this also God shall reveal to you". That is, there may be differences -- although the early part of the epistle would show that there need not be -- in the persons thus classified, but God will reveal what is not clearly seen. Let us keep a united front, and God will reveal anything wanting; God is operating to that end.

Ques. Why does the apostle present here the thought of being an imitator "of me", and in Corinthians being an imitator of him as he also was of Christ.

J.T. I suppose he needed to bring in Christ at Corinth, where they would not accept him so readily; but where brethren are perfect they will more quickly recognise what a man Paul was.

W.H. You made a remark recently with regard to the teacher and the scholar (1 Chronicles 25), that there is to be mutual feeling, preventing divergence, that all should move together.

J.T. That will be so if love is operative. There may be differences, but among the perfect those things are left. There is no need to press a thing; God will

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bring it out; but we are not, of course, to be latitudinarians, yet you have to leave many things with God and move together as "perfect" ones.

Ques. Would it be right to say with regard to that thought of perfection, that Paul was perfect as to his object, but as to attainment he was not already perfected?

J.T. He was a fully developed christian, the Philippians also generally so. This perfection really underlies assembly functions.

S.J.B.C. The perfect ones would be those who are matured in the things of God and have reached manhood in christianity. It looks as if we have three minds; those who are "thus minded" -- the perfect ones; and those who are "otherwise minded" -- those backward; and those "who mind earthly things" -- unconverted persons, whose end is destruction!

Eu.R. Would the thought of our commonwealth tend to unify us?

J.T. It helps greatly, as drawing us away from what affects us naturally. It is our commonwealth.

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THE SUPPLY OF THE SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST (6)

Philippians 4

H.H. Could you say a little more on the thought of righteousness that we touched on this morning?

C.G. You spoke of it as being foundational if we are to pursue the course the apostle sets out here.

J.T. Yes. It reads: "and that I may be found in him, not having my righteousness, which would be on the principle of law, but that which is by faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God through faith". He is calling attention to what is properly christian as in himself, including righteousness, that it should be of this kind -- "the righteousness which is of God", and it is "through faith"; "that which is by faith of Christ". It is what comes through the glad tidings, and of course works out in practical righteousness, which is one of the prime needs of the time.

Ques. Would it answer to Romans: "righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ towards all, and upon all those who believe"?

J.T. Yes; it is worked out in Romans. It is foundational in the christian position. Of course, we could not be in it without it. Having a desire "to know Him and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being conformed to his death, if any way I arrive at the resurrection from among the dead".

W.C.G. Is it figuratively expressed in the man having on the wedding garment in Matthew?

J.T. It is included in that. The wedding garment would be a little further, and the best robe further still. All the things mentioned come into the christian's exercises in this great matter, reaching on to the goal.

Rem. He speaks of his own righteousness in verse 6: "as to righteousness which is in the law, found blameless", but he pours contempt on that because of Christ,

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that he might have God's righteousness in contrast to his own righteousness which he could boast in.

J.T. It is the kind of righteousness that is stressed: "the righteousness which is of God", and it is acquired through faith. It is in the sense of what is of God. Christianity is what is of God. Then there are other thoughts that we did not notice this morning for want of time, the idea of the commonwealth and the transformation of our bodies. We spoke of the "calling on high of God in Christ Jesus", which is called "the prize", a word to be well noted. The calling is the greatest thought in the passage -- the full purpose of God, to which the saints are called. I believe it corresponds with the sanctification of the Lord, as He calls it, in John 17:19: "I sanctify myself for them, that they also may be sanctified by truth", that is, the truth of the present position of Christ as Man in heaven. We are to be in accord with that.

H.H. Do you connect the "calling on high" with sonship?

J.T. Yes; sonship is involved in it; it is the exalted place Man has in the divine counsels as portrayed in Christ's present position, and unfolded in what is called "the truth" in John 17:17 - 19, and by which we are sanctified. Sanctification implies that we are in accord with that great position, not only the relation of sons with God, but the position on high. The relation of sons, in some sense, will be shared on earth also, but here it is the calling "on high".

Ques. Would "I go to prepare a place for you" fit in?

J.T. It may. It is a question of the divine counsels. John treats more of the family side, no doubt running parallel. "My Father's house", He says, but here it is the "calling on high of God". The old corn of the land is somewhat in keeping with it; it is Christ as indigenous to the place; that is, He is in His own place, the place proper to Him, both personally and as Man,

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but as also describing our place. How that should affect us!

M.W.B. So this chapter is distinctive to christianity, that is, it is a glorified Christ; Christ as Man according to the purpose of God, and beyond the mere fact of resurrection.

J.T. Involving, as was remarked, what the Lord had in mind in His sanctification. It is the present position He has taken up, pending the working out of other things which the Lord touches in the first part of John 17. He does not sanctify Himself in view of millennial things, but in view of our position involving "the truth", as He calls it. The truth involves that position, and is unfolded by the Spirit as come from that position, so that the saints should understand the magnitude of christianity, what the assembly's place is as compared with other circles of blessing, with other families, a thought we do not dwell much upon. From necessity the ministry coming to us is very largely general. This is the top stone of Paul's ministry, what he aimed at for himself and what he was unfolding to the saints.

Rem. He says, "our commonwealth has its existence in the heavens".

J.T. That is another word, and relates not exactly to our calling, but to what is involved in a sort of national or political sense, delivering us from what we may be in; "our commonwealth has its existence in the heavens". It is in keeping indeed with the calling on high, but another thought which has to be understood, and the effect of it is to deliver us from any political links or hankerings that we may have, or may be innate in us. We are not generally free of national feeling and the like.

J.J. Would it be illustrated in Psalm 87 -- "This man was born there"?

J.T. It is something like that -- the greatness of the place, that you are born there.

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H.E.S. Is the "calling on high" in any way connected with the thought in the previous chapter that God has highly exalted Jesus?

J.T. It runs with that, although, of course, that is personal. The "calling on high" is the idea of elevation -- a thought prominently running through Scripture.

W.J.H. What would you say as to Paul saying at Philippi that they had been beaten uncondemned, being Romans?

J.T. I would speak with due respect, but I think he dropped from the high level of his ministry there.

W.J.H. I wondered if it was a sort of adjustment here to any wrong impression he may have given.

J.T. When he left the prison, he went to Lydia, and if she had made any remarks about the heavenly calling it would have brought the discrepancy home to him. She would not fail to notice any remarks that he might make about it, and it would be difficult for him to make things square with what he had said to the magistrates. But one does not like to say anything about the apostle, only as to its bearing on ourselves and our occupation with any political feeling. When Paul and Silas were brought before the magistrates, the men of the city had said they were Romans, and now he says he is a Roman. Well, he is in their company, and one can understand how he would feel that. What he said was literally true, of course, that he was a Roman, but his claiming it certainly does not tally with "our commonwealth has its existence in the heavens".

A.A.E. Is it not really necessary for us to come to a moral conclusion about that, so that if we were in similar circumstances we should know what to do?

J.T. It is written for that very purpose; it is for our learning.

W.C.G. The hour of success was the hour of danger.

J.T. Quite so; it was a great triumph, and the enemy would gain a point in such circumstances.

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Paul's attitude towards the magistrates would not have helped them spiritually.

L.D.M. It was not in accord with the "righteousness which is of God through faith". He was standing for his own rights.

M.W.B. I was thinking that the elevation of this chapter generally is much needed amongst us as giving the true colour of christianity. One recalls a reading last year, when the present glorious position and the condition of Christ in it, was before us, and is not an understanding and maintenance of what accords with that necessary, if we are rightly to set forth what christianity is?

J.T. That is evident. It is the heavenly colour that is needed, and which the enemy attacks, and this chapter is particularly intended to press upon us the height and the greatness of the calling. The apostle himself was stretching forward to it.

Eu.R. It is similar to "I beheld Satan as lightning falling out of heaven" (Luke 10:18), and then, "rejoice that your names are written in the heavens" (verse 20).

J.T. Yes; the Lord referred there to the status of the saints in heaven. If Paul wrote the Ephesian epistle first, this chapter is all the more forceful. At any rate it synchronises with Ephesians, and this shows how the minister may in writing or speaking go beyond his own realisation of the truth. Of course, he wrote by the Spirit, the Spirit filling his mind; and yet in this epistle he himself is striving might and main to reach the things set out in Ephesians.

Ques. Would not this enable us to centre our interests in heavenly things?

J.T. That is the intent, that you should see where your calling is, where your commonwealth is. There are things on the way -- righteousness, and the resurrection from among the dead -- but this is the great end, "the prize of the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus", and then correspondingly, the commonwealth.

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That delivers us from national feeling which is ingrained in every one of us naturally. Earthly feelings too, of course, but national feeling is a very peculiar thing, and it is the first thing touched in the call of Abraham: "Go out of thy land, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house", Genesis 12:1.

M.W.B. Hebrews 12 refers to "the assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven", and also to the "city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem". In a general way, would you link the calling on high with the firstborn ones enregistered in heaven, and the commonwealth with the city of the living God?

J.T. Yes; the order is "mount Zion", which is what you might call the constitution of the country; "the city of the living God" -- the capital; "the universal gathering" would be the Congress or Parliament; but the "assembly of the firstborn" refers to 'society', if I may use the figure. That is, any country has all those things; you have the constitution, and the capital, and the Congress or Parliament, and then the social side; and I believe that is what is in mind. The firstborn ones are all on an equality -- they are all firstborn, so that the setting is most exalted -- they are enregistered in heaven; their status is assured. That is the society that we are brought into. Besides and above all that, we have come to God and to Jesus, the Mediator of the new covenant, also to the spirits of just men made perfect, alluding to the humanity that is there. I would say the commonwealth has reference more to the earlier things, mount Zion, the city of the living God, and the universal gathering. These are more political thoughts, but then, there is the society you must have. What is a country like this without society? For us in heaven it will be 'the saints in glory met'. That is what is opened up to us, and what, in principle, we have already come to.

M.W.B. So it would not do for two sisters of such

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society to have the slightest disagreement between them, as in the beginning of the next chapter.

J.T. Just so. Chapter 4 will help us on this line. Then there is finally in chapter 3 the change of our bodies of humiliation, and in this connection Christ is looked for as Saviour; we are waiting for Christ as Saviour from the heavens. That would mean that He is coming to change our bodies -- the full thought of salvation -- and that they are to be made like His own body of glory, corresponding with what we are saying -- His place, and now conformity to His body. Elsewhere it is conformity to the image of God's Son, but here it is to His body, but His body of glory. What a body! Here the Lord suffered in His body in which He did the will of God, but it is His body of glory that we are conformed to. It involves the greatest thought, that we shall be like Him. "What we shall be has not yet been manifested; we know that if it is manifested we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is", 1 John 3:2. It is complete correspondence with Him in the place He is in -- His body of glory.

W.J.H. It is something more than was seen in the forty days.

J.T. The forty days would be preliminary. What is stressed in the forty days is spirituality -- a spiritual body; and what is presented during that period is for spiritual formation and instruction. It is preliminary. It is simply how the Lord moved about, appearing to different ones, as Paul says. It was to impress them with what He is spiritually as raised from the dead; "then that which is spiritual" (1 Corinthians 15:46) -- that has to be learnt. Following on this, there is "the heavenly one", also to be understood. The former is Christ during the forty days, the latter what He is now.

H.E.S. Is the thought of descending continued in this chapter? In the previous chapter the Lord descended in love; does He here descend in power, and is

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the thought continued in regard of the assembly, that it will descend in glory?

J.T. Yes; that thought runs through; He is now coming out. Our chapter says, "our commonwealth has its existence in the heavens, from which also we await the Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour, who shall transform our body of humiliation into conformity to his body of glory". He comes out. Elsewhere we are told that He descends: "the Lord himself ... shall descend from heaven", 1 Thessalonians 4:16. There it is to raise the dead and change the living, but here it is just the living -- to change our bodies of humiliation into conformity to His body of glory.

D.L.H. I have wondered whether the Lord's body in resurrection, that which we read of in the Acts, is exactly what is meant by the body of glory. The Lord Jesus took particular care to eat and drink with His disciples after His resurrection, but one could hardly connect that idea with the body of glory.

J.T. I think what has been said helps us: the forty days are really educational, and it was the Lord's consideration to come down to them as they were. They needed this education, which they could not have during the days of our Lord's flesh and blood condition, and they were low down. They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and He ate it before them. That was to come down to their thoughts, that it was Himself; what was before them was not imaginary or merely spiritual. "A spirit", He says, "has not flesh and bones as ye see me having", Luke 24:39. That was educational. It is not a question of His body of glory yet; not that I am attempting to make much difference, only that the presentation here of the body of glory involves that as a heavenly people we are to be capable of taking in the thoughts conveyed in it.

Ques. Why do you connect it only with the living saints?

J.T. Because it is a question of change here, as in

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Romans 8:11: "shall quicken your mortal bodies also on account of his Spirit which dwells in you". Here it is, "shall transform our body of humiliation"; it is not our dead body, but our body of humiliation, that is, what we are here actually is in mind. Of course He will raise the dead, too, and they will come forth with glorious bodies, but here it is the living that are in mind. There will be no difference; those who sleep in Christ will be at no disadvantage whatever.

Ques. Would what was seen on the mount of transfiguration answer to this?

J.T. Yes. Of course, that was in the days of His flesh, but it shows that the Lord was capable of change for a purpose, which is educational. In truth, what we are speaking of is all one with the whole matter of revelation, the declaration of God, God graciously coming into our way of thinking to make Himself known and to educate us. While we are educated and formed, we are also made to feel that we are constantly in the presence of the inscrutable.

C.O.B. Is it different from "it is raised a spiritual body"?

J.T. It goes further. That is really the constitution of the body, but there are other things in the list given in 1 Corinthians 15 that refer to the dead raised. "It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruptibility. It is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body". All that refers to the dead, to bring out the greatness of the resurrection, but here it is the one thought, that we are brought into conformity to His body of glory, in keeping with the chapter, that He is going to make us equal with the "calling on high".

Rem. To see Him as He is we must have a body suitable to that condition.

J.T. "We shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is"; that is, we shall completely correspond with Him.

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A.S.L. There was an interval of forty days between His resurrection and His going up, but there will be no such interval for us.

J.T. There is no indication as to time, but resurrection will bring the dead back to earth, with "the living, who remain"; they shall be changed. This will happen on the earth clearly. Our ascension is not stated here; it is a question of our bodies being brought into accord with all that is spoken of in the chapter.

W.C. It says in Ephesians 5:23: "He is Saviour of the body". Does that refer to this?

J.T. This includes that. This is the greatest thought. The Lord's care of our bodies is involved in that statement in Ephesians 5; He has constant care of our bodies, and I always refer to the Lord in regard of the body, because it is a kind of peculiar treasure -- the bodies of the saints are the peculiar property of the Lord. I think this is the fullest expression of the thought that He is the Saviour of the body.

L.D.M. It is in the singular, "our body".

J.T. You find the use of the singular in this sense often in Scripture. It means the idea; here it includes all the bodies of the saints. You get the expression: "Let not your heart be troubled", which means the hearts of all present.

H.D'A.C. In the case of the dead the identity is preserved in resurrection. I have known that denied, but there is the result of the sowing, is there not?

J.T. That is manifestly so. God gives it a body as it pleases Him, but the person comes out. That is what you mean, that all the saints that are dead will come out of their graves. It says, "many bodies of the saints fallen asleep arose, ... and appeared unto many", Matthew 27:52,53. They were recognised undoubtedly.

Rem. The Lord said, "Lazarus, come forth" (John 11:43), calling him by name.

J.T. That helps. Now chapter 4 is before us in the light of all these things, and one can understand how

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the saints acquired increasing beauty in the mind of the apostle as he thus wrote, and if Epaphroditus were the writer, you can understand how he would enhance that thought. So that chapter 4 again begins with the apostle's affections: "So that, my brethren, beloved and longed for, my joy and crown". It looks as if they were becoming increasingly delightful to him as he wrote, and one can understand, as filled with the Spirit of God, abstracted as he was, and seeing the saints in their glory and calling, how his affections would be drawn out in such language as this. In a sense, nothing enhances the saints more in our eyes than the understanding of the calling: "Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him", Luke 15:22. It is a question of how you clothe them in your mind.

Ques. When the apostle says "my joy and crown", is it what you have been bringing before us, that it was an assembly set up free of judaism and in the fulness of Paul's service and ministry?

J.T. That helps as to what we have been saying. From the very outset in this epistle, and in the account in Acts, it is clear that judaism had no hand in this, for as sure as it is allowed you will get malformation. Chapter 3 is to keep that out, and, as the apostle proceeds, it seems to me his affections are more and more brought into play in regard of these saints. Of course, he would love all the saints, even such as the Corinthians, as he said: "if even in abundantly loving you I should be less loved", 2 Corinthians 12:15. He would love them in spite of their unloveliness, but it is much easier to love because of loveliness, and the apostle's thoughts expand as he sees the saints in their loveliness. The effect of the first letter to the Corinthians was to enlarge his heart and to open his mouth towards them.

A.S.L. Learning to clothe the saints and to look upon them as the work of God, is more needed by us when unloveliness is in evidence. There is no difficulty on some occasions.

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J.T. It is well to keep that in mind. In Nehemiah's time much was made of the priests' clothes. You would clothe a brother as a priest, but you wish to see the priestly state in him. The priest must be there, or the garment will not fit. The prophet Malachi shows what God thought of the priests of his day.

F.S.M. Does this chapter carry us a little further in regard of the spiritual mind? In chapter 2 we considered the descending mind, and then the energised mind in chapter 3, but here it seems to be the refined mind that can appreciate beauty, and the more we apprehend the beauty of Christ personally the more we shall appreciate Christ-like features displayed in the saints.

J.T. I am sure it is a very important matter in our relations with one another, to be able to clothe the saints rightly. How different a person improperly clothed naturally appears! Clothes make a great difference, and as soon as suitable clothes are on, how different the person is! So it is spiritually. There is the idea of the wardrobe, and the keeper of the wardrobe, and when the father said, "Bring forth the best robe", the idea is included that the bondmen knew where it was, and I believe Luke 15 is intended to help us to clothe the saints with divine thoughts.

Rem. Does the Lord do that Himself in Luke's gospel? When the disciples were striving at the end of the gospel, the Lord clothes them with the beautiful thought, "ye are they who have persevered with me in my temptations", Luke 22:28.

J.T. The Scriptures are full of the thought -- the Old Testament and the New -- as to God taking account of us abstractly according to His own thoughts.

W.B-w. Is that why the word "beloved" is used twice in the first verse, because of the beauty he sees in them?

J.T. I think so. How lovely they were! That word "beloved" is "David". David sets out the thought at

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the outset. His beauty is described and then we are told that the Spirit came upon David -- the first mention of the name meaning "beloved"; it is not that his name was David, but the Spirit of Jehovah came upon David. Of course you get his name mentioned in the book of Ruth, but 1 Samuel 16 would be written earlier. The idea is that the Spirit came on the beloved. The application to the Philippians of this word twice in the opening verse is striking.

Ques. What is the thought in the expression, "thus stand fast in the Lord, beloved"?

J.T. First, it is, "beloved and longed for". That means that the love is active in Paul's experience; it is active love. The second mention is, "stand fast in the Lord, beloved"; that is, you are such a people. It would be to maintain them in that: "stand fast in the Lord". Of course, loveliness may become attractive to others, but you may become corrupted, and the Lord's rights may be interfered with; the apostle's exhortation here is to preserve us.

J.T.S. Is it that kind of active love that is going to affect Euodia and Syntyche here, that must secure an answer?

J.T. Exactly. The service is to be in love. "By love serve one another". It makes the service so acceptable.

W.B-w. Why do you think he calls the Philippians his crown?

J.T. It is as the fruit of his labours. It is a very distinguished word to be applied to an assembly. Your crown is what you cherish, and this assembly was beautiful in his mind. He speaks similarly to the Thessalonians. The assembly down here is really the reproduction of Christ, in His graces, and Paul took account of the Philippians in this way. They were his joy and crown. What was there produced joy, and it is on that account they are his crown, because they were the fruit of his labours.

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H.M.S. Crowns are usually worn with beautiful garments, not by themselves.

J.T. Then the apostle speaks to a yokefellow, and asks him to "assist them, who have contended along with me in the glad tidings, with Clement also, and my other fellow-labourers, whose names are in the book of life". This yokefellow would have an excellent service opened up in this, in view of the love of the apostle expressed in the letter, to assist others. He is a labourer himself, but now he is to assist other labourers.

F.C.H. Is it specifically that he was to assist those two sisters, and then the beautiful way he clothes them, "who have contended along with me in the glad tidings"?

J.T. I do not know that the "them" is just those two sisters.

M.W.B. It has been pointed out that the gender of the "them" and the "who" is feminine.

J.T. It is a question whether it could be confined to the two -- whether they are included at all in the word to the yokefellow. "Them" and "who" refer to other women. The Authorised Version gives the true sense of the passage, I believe.

Rem. J.N.D. gives a note to the effect that it is women who are such as "have contended along with me".

J.T. The assistance that a fellow-labourer should yield to others is important. The saints, of course, support the labourers, but labourers should support labourers.

W.W. In chapter 2 Paul speaks of Epaphroditus as being his "brother and fellow-workman and fellow-soldier".

J.T. It is a point to be noticed that labourers -- those actually engaged, as we say, in the field -- should have in mind to assist each other, sisters as well. If Epaphroditus is in mind, the thing becomes more forceful; great servant as he was and distinguished in love, yet he is enjoined here to assist those who laboured

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with Paul: "them, who have contended along with me in the glad tidings". There were women and others, beside Clement, and their names are in the book of life; not one of them would be omitted; they all were taken account of.

Ques. Why does he make reference to their names being in the book of life?

J.T. Just to cover the fact that he could not mention them severally. They are well cared for, for they are in the book of life, and the yokefellow would know who they were.

W.J.H. Paul himself seems to have been on this line of helping others: "Yourselves know that these hands have ministered to my wants, and to those who were with me", Acts 20:34.

Rem. The book of life is greater than any service.

J.T. Quite so; it secures the distinction of the persons in a living and abiding sense, and alludes to what one is as living, the outcome of the purpose of God, over against those who are dead morally and have part in the second death. I believe it would mean that the footing of each one and his distinction in life is secured. But our names are also written in heaven, which is status up there, and hence, greater. A yokefellow is one that works happily with another. Paul must have had great comfort in this yokefellow, who was a true one, possibly Epaphroditus. One is struck with the reference to those who had ability to work with others, for we are apt to be too isolated in our labours.

E.G. Would it be similar to the congenial companionship referred to earlier?

J.T. Quite so. Paul stresses companionship in service. It seemed to afford him more liberty that he had such congenial companionship, because he was freighted with the greatest possible things, things that were hard to bring out. The more spiritual a thing is,

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the more difficult it is to bring out in ministry, and spiritual companionship helps you in it.

Ques. Did he have congenial companionship with Silas in the prison?

J.T. You have an excellent example of it there. They were evidently companionable to each other, and as such, what always develops is the recognition of superior spirituality. That keeps each of us in his place, that one is to know his measure, and if working with others to know and recognise their measure.

Ques. Do you get a suggestion of that with Peter and John in Acts 3:4: "Look on us"?

J.T. That is the idea exactly. Peter and John were heaven's best at that time.

W.S.S. In thinking of fellow-labourers, I wondered whether it would come out in relation to these meetings, that the ministry would be taken up and worked out jointly by fellow-labourers.

J.T. The Lord would encourage those who serve prominently to move together. The divine economy requires this. It makes provision for what a man is, so that measure is a great matter. God is a God of measure, and if He causes a brother to develop in it, He will not give him what is not according to that measure. Things are accurately measured by God, and hence, if we are subject in our ministry, there will be no friction, because we shall discern what is, and not regard a brother more nor less than he is. So Peter and John represent the idea, that is to say, Peter is leading, and John is always ready to take the second place. That is a principle, that I can never get on with a brother if I do not learn to take a second place.

A.N. Do you think this thought arose on the occasion when the apostle refused to take Mark with him?

J.T. Yes, the true spirit of the yokefellow was not in Mark; he failed, he went back from the work.

Ques. Was not Acts 9 the divine determination

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that Paul should be first? You were speaking about selection.

J.T. Yes; he is said by the Lord to be "an elect vessel to me", and what the Lord says about him shows that he was to be a superior vessel, a leading workman. So you get "Paul and his company"; he is the only one spoken of thus.

Ques. Do we see an example of how servants should support each other in the service in the beginning of Ezra: "the chief fathers of Judah ... strengthened their hands" (Ezra 1:5,6)?

J.T. A very good one.

Eu.R. The Philippians were characteristically of Paul's company. He says, "What ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me".

J.T. They would be like him in that way. That is one of the points made in regard of Gideon, that his brethren were like him: "As thou art, so were they; each one resembled the sons of a king", Judges 8:18. It is remarkable in Gideon's case, that he connected the likeness mentioned with his mother. "They were my brethren", he said, "the sons of my mother". Normally the influence and nurture that the young come under in the assembly promote likeness to Christ. The epistle is stamped with the idea of rejoicing, and we may note that as we close. Verse 4 begins, "Rejoice in the Lord always: again I will say, Rejoice". It is a feature that runs through the epistle. The apostle had presented much to cause them joy and they had afforded him joy, so that a buoyant state of things obtains. This whole chapter is one of spiritual buoyancy. "It was right", said the father, in Luke 15, "to make merry and rejoice", and this epistle corresponds with the merriment that comes out in that section of the gospel; the saints filled and clothed with divine thoughts, because each saint really, as thus filled, is contributory to the joy of all. When a brother comes into the room, does he cause joy? It says that the disciples rejoiced

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when the Lord came in, and so the reflection of Christ in brothers and sisters promotes joy. That is what is intended.

H.E.S. Moral weight would be added to these statements by the fact that they come from the apostle while in prison.

J.T. Yes, that he could write with such authority and power, and yet with such affection, in such circumstances, is certainly very striking. Would that they could see him come in at the door! -- that is what he holds out as a prospect. His very appearance would cause them joy. It was not so at Corinth: "his presence in the body weak, and his speech naught" was said there (2 Corinthians 10:10). How different!

W.S.S. In chapter 1 he said, "that your boasting may abound in Christ Jesus through me by my presence again with you".

J.T. Just so; how they would love to see him come in! I think in measure that is the idea, that every spiritual brother and sister should be a joy to the saints. The Lord comes in, too, in a spiritual way, and adds thoughts of freshness and loveliness and of buoyancy.

Ques. Referring to "what is": would verses 8 and 9 be a summing up of what is, the wealth of it?

J.T. That is the idea.

Ques. "The Lord is near"; does that refer to His coming or to His present nearness?

J.T. I think the latter. "The Lord stood with me, and gave me power", 2 Timothy 4:17. We might picture this eighth verse as a beautiful garden. There may be weeds, but the thought is to look for what is beautiful: "if there be any virtue and if any praise, think on these things"; however little, look for that. The things presented here are intended to keep us in buoyancy and to provide the atmosphere, as you might say, and the eye that values beauty would look for it. Virtue would be that you refuse the evil and choose the good; and praise -- if there be any, however little, think on it.

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It is well to notice the different things mentioned: "whatsoever things are true" -- a very well-known word, but it involves that one is true oneself in every way, that in whatever way you test a person, he answers to the test.

D.L.H. Does not love always look out for what is like Christ rather than what is contrary?

J.T. Quite so; but alas! your experience will confirm that we are very prone to look at the unlovely things.

J.O.S. In John's second epistle he says, "I rejoiced greatly that I have found of thy children walking in truth", and then at the end he says, "I ... hope to come to you, and to speak mouth to mouth, that our joy may be full", 2 John 4,12.

J.T. His presence and speaking mouth to mouth would occasion mutual joy. Then the apostle here goes on to say, "What ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, these things do; and the God of peace shall be with you". That is another mark of buoyancy, "the God of peace". "But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now however at length ye have revived your thinking of me, though surely ye did also think of me, but lacked opportunity. Not that I speak as regards privation, for as to me I have learnt in those circumstances in which I am, to be satisfied in myself". He is now approaching the subject of giving to the servants, and he is showing that whether he is ministered to or not, he is not going to be altered or depressed. "I have learnt", he says, "... to be satisfied in myself". That is the constitution of a spiritual man; he is self-sustaining in that sense. He is not independent of God or of the brethren, but at the same time his constitution is such that he can go on under all circumstances. "I know both how to be abased and I know how to abound. In everything and in all things I am initiated both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer privation. I have strength for all things in him

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that gives me power". So that he brings himself forward here as a model for servants. Those who are serving are more or less dependent on the Lord's people for sustenance in material things, but he is intimating that, even if the Lord's people are neglectful, he is not depressed, but he goes on. He may know what it is to be deprived of necessary things, but he goes on. The apostle proceeds further and says, "But ye have done well in taking part in my affliction. And know also ye, O Philippians, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I came out of Macedonia, no assembly communicated anything to me in the way of giving and receiving save ye alone". That the apostle Paul should carry in his mind from the time at Thessalonica, some years before, the material things that the Philippians sent him, is a very touching matter, and shows that, if the brethren communicate with the servants, their gifts should not be forgotten; they should be carried in our thoughts as occasions of joy, as the expressions of love from the saints.

J.O.S. Does it not show, too, that he did not take these gifts as a matter of course?

J.T. Yes. The Philippians had been diligent at the beginning, but evidently this had lapsed. We cannot expect that the same brethren must minister to those who are serving all the time; the apostle sets out all this to help us in service not to forget the love of the brethren, but not always to be expecting.

Ques. Why is the thought of receiving coupled with giving?

J.T. "Giving and receiving" is the radiation of love. There is circulation, and there is radiation, and radiation is glory, I think; giving and receiving is glory. The messengers of assemblies are Christ's glory. It is a beautiful thing, and God looks down from heaven to see the working out of love in the giver and also in the receiver, for properly it takes grace to receive as well as to give. Paul says, "for also in Thessalonica once and

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even twice ye sent to me for my need". As far as we can see, he was about three weeks in Thessalonica after he left Philippi, and so the Philippian saints ministered to him twice in three weeks. That is a fine example for the brethren.

L.M. Would Paul give us the impression in closing that there are adequate supplies to maintain us in the buoyancy and on the high level of the epistle?

J.T. That is what comes out. "Not that I seek gift", but he loved to say that they sent to him once and even twice in three weeks. "Not that I seek gift, but I seek fruit abounding to your account. But I have all things in full supply and abound; I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things sent from you, an odour of sweet savour, an acceptable sacrifice, agreeable to God". That is one of the finest statements you can get in regard of gifts that the brethren sent to those who serve them. "An odour", he calls it. It came through a beautiful vessel, Epaphroditus, whose loving consideration of the saints is already spoken of.

Ques. Would not this be greatly enhanced in the light of the verse, "in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty has abounded to the riches of their free-hearted liberality", 2 Corinthians 8:2?

J.T. That is right. Those two chapters in 2 Corinthians open up what we have here, but this is the most magnificent statement of a gift to a servant: "an odour of sweet savour, an acceptable sacrifice, agreeable to God".

H.D'A.C. Did they lose by it?

J.T. I should think not. See what it was; it was agreeable to God -- "an acceptable sacrifice, agreeable to God". Epaphroditus must have been a most unselfish sort of brother. He was grieved because the Philippians heard that he was sick; that the news cost them suffering.

W.H. Is there anything in the fact that he refers to the assembly? It was not simply that it was decided by

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a few brothers, but all the saints were brought into it.

J.T. Quite so: "messengers of assemblies, Christ's glory". The gift of the assembly is a very exalted thought, and it is more than a gift from the brothers; it is the expression of the glory of Christ. It is an assembly matter. Is your thought that in giving to labourers the saints should all be brought into it?

W.H. We let all the saints know for whom the gift is to be made, so that both brothers and sisters are brought into it in their affections intelligently. The names of the brothers are mentioned, so that they would be before all the saints.

J.T. In this chapter, and also in 2 Corinthians, assembly giving is in view. It is the principle of giving by the assembly, and is related to the anointing, the matter being public.

W.B-w. You would announce it along with the notices to the assembly on Lord's day morning?

J.T. Yes, that is right. It belongs to the public anointed vessel; the giving comes under the anointing.

J.O.S. Do I understand that you announce on Lord's day morning at the breaking of bread, before the collection is made, to whom the gifts are to be made?

J.T. Yes. In N -- -- Y -- -- we advise the saints to whom the gifts are to be made, so that both brothers and sisters are brought into the giving intelligently.

D.L.H. Do you do that with all present, including those not breaking bread?

J.T. Yes. All these matters stand in relation to the anointing. As the tabernacle was set up and anointed so the giving to the Levites proceeded. The gifts stood in that setting: "on the day that it was anointed", Numbers 7:10.

H.D'A.C. Say a word on "But my God".

J.T. It is a fine finish, "my God shall abundantly supply all your need according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus". That is the standard, and what a thought to be brought into material things!

H.D'A.C. "My God" meant so much to Paul. He

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had so experienced what God was to him that he knew they would not suffer, and he does not say "out of" but "according to his riches in glory". It is a very attractive thought; with us, giving should be according to our riches.

Rem. It speaks of the assembly as having communicated this gift. Is not that the importance of the chapter, that the assembly does it?

J.T. That is what we were saying. The messengers of assemblies are referred to as Christ's glory. Epaphroditus, for instance, carried the assembly's bounty to Paul, and every step he took, so to speak, would reflect glory. That is how the thing stands. All that enters into the public position of the assembly is in the power and dignity of the anointing.

M.W.B. There is nothing to be ashamed of in the assembly.

J.T. The anointing means that things are done in the power of the Spirit. The tabernacle was anointed, that is the public side of the assembly; gifts to labourers as announced in the power and dignity of the anointing afford a testimony; it ought to affect any one present. The assembly represents God.

Rem. In 2 Corinthians 9, the apostle seems to boast in what they had done, and he speaks of stimulating "the mass of the brethren" in connection with the contributions and the gifts of the saints on the level of which you are speaking.

J.T. The public position of the assembly includes the court of the tabernacle; the outward position, but it was all anointed, and everything is in the dignity of the anointing, and it ought to affect any one who sees it. It is intended to be a testimony; the brazen altar was in the court.

Ques. With regard to the expression, "messengers of assemblies, Christ's glory", do you lay emphasis on the assemblies or the messengers?

J.T. On both, but the radiation of glory is in the

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messengers. They are not like a cheque sent in an envelope. The idea is that the affections and feelings of the messengers enter into the gifts they carry.

J.J. Perhaps we do not take in the fact of the great distance Epaphroditus had to travel, carrying the gift to Paul from Philippi to Rome.

J.T. That is a thing to be noted, and what is said of him would indicate that he travelled in dignity and radiated glory. He was the bearer of the bounty of the saints. The apostle closes with: "Salute every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren who are with me salute you. All the saints salute you, and specially those of the household of Caesar". These latter, although connected with the government, are brought into the salutations, showing that the saints, whatever their vocations, are all in the dignity of the anointing.

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MORAL ELEVATION

Exodus 19:1 - 6; Judges 9:7 - 21; 2 Chronicles 13:4 - 12

I have in mind, dear brethren, to speak about moral elevation, particularly in what is said amongst us in the way of ministry, but also, as applying generally; for while the saints of God, who as loving Him keep His commandments, have to do with wilderness Circumstances, yet all is to be marked by moral elevation. You will discern, therefore, why I have read these scriptures recording utterances from mountains. Many others could be added, especially from the gospel of Matthew, but I confine myself to these three passages as sufficient for the purpose in view.

In general, the speaking which marks christianity at the present time -- as is said in the epistle to the Hebrews -- is from heaven. The Speaker is the Son indeed, as we read: "God ... has spoken to us in the person of the Son", but it is not only the Person, it is also the position; hence, the epistle reminds us that the speaking is from heaven, involving the unfolding of what is there -- what is above, what is far above current low religious speaking and communications. In view of this character of speaking, Luke records that the Lord directed His disciples to remain in the city, that is, in Jerusalem, until they should be clothed with power from on high.

The Old Testament anticipates the thoughts of the New and amplifies them, so in Exodus we have the great general principle that speaking is to be marked by moral elevation. Israel were then three months out of Egypt; it was the third month and the Spirit of God calls attention to their movements, so as to get us into position -- an important matter, especially for the young people, as delivered out of the world, to get into the position necessary for divine communications.

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The Spirit tells us that they had left Rephidim and had come into the wilderness of Sinai. They had moved that way; they were penetrating the wilderness; they had given up -- for the moment, at least -- any thought of returning to the world. Professing believers oftentimes look back longingly on what has been left, and this took place with Israel indeed earlier in those three months, but they heard Aaron speak -- typically Christ, reminding us of His care for us, and sympathy with us -- and it is said that "they turned toward the wilderness". It is a very great matter when young people, after the temptation to go back, are influenced by such a speaking as effects this, and instead of looking back into Egypt, they look towards the wilderness, and God rewards them by causing His glory to shine before them (Exodus 16:10). How can a young believer think of going back after one view of that glory?

Now, they have come to the wilderness of Sinai, which has its own great meaning in Scripture, and they encamped before the mountain. This is not accidental. After you have had a certain experience out of the world you are confronted at once with this great thought of moral elevation, and that the communications you are to attend to henceforth are not to be on the level of man, however renowned the speakers or the writers may be. They encamped before the mount; they have taken up a position wherein they may be communicated with by God, but on the principle of moral elevation, and what follows is that the mediator comes immediately into view. Believers thus come to see that there is One between them and God; Moses ascends the mount -- the position is magnificent -- and Jehovah at once speaks to them out of the mount.

We have to note the position, as well as the Person who speaks; He is about to unfold great things to them, as it was said of old, "On the mount of Jehovah will be provided" (Genesis 22:14); and now they are in the very presence of it, already known to faith; they have taken

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up a position in front of it. The mediator is available and goes up, and Jehovah speaks out of the mount. He is about to unfold great things, but first of all, He is to assert His rights over them, the rights of love. Can anyone resist the claims of divine love? At Sinai the rights of God, the rights of His love, come into evidence. In chapter 20 God speaks about the thousands of those who love Him. He is to have an audience of lovers.

Such is the great position here tonight. One glories in it, not that one would think of oneself, but the position that the brethren have taken up. It is a question of loving God in our times, and as lovers of God, as we have opportunity, we readily take up a position in which He can address us and assert the rights of His love. He speaks of the thousands of those who love Him; not of those who should, but of those who do love Him. That is the background of the moment, that there are those who love God; whether few or many, we may speak of those who love God, and how He loves to communicate to them, especially as they take up a position -- as we have done here tonight -- in His presence.

Now in order to set out the great principle that is to run through Scripture henceforth, God says to Moses, "Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob". He introduces the great principle of speaking from the point of moral elevation, and here with the most beautiful touches as to what is in His mind for His people. He says, "Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation". These words indicate the character of the communications of

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divine love. In uttering them God inaugurates this great principle of speaking from the mount. Surely it is that we should be attracted, that we should be interested and wait for more, and still more; as we are told: "as they were listening to these things, he added and spake a parable", Luke 19:11. It is a question of the attitude of attention that we take up, and of the divine readiness to communicate to us.

Now I come on to Judges, for the passages read in Judges and Chronicles are those I especially wish to dwell upon. What we may notice is that the speakers follow the example set in Exodus 19. Jotham takes up a remarkable position in a very dark day, and he is an excellent example for us as dark days come -- they have come and will come. He goes to the top of mount Gerizim, knowing well no doubt what the mount stood for spiritually. It bespoke blessing to Israel, but for the moment they were putting the blessing away from them. Alas! it is the state of christendom. The history of christendom is portrayed in these three passages -- the inauguration of it in glorious richness in Exodus 19, but now a dark, dark day had arrived, a day of murderous ingratitude; for that is the point. Christendom is marked by this -- and it is a most touching matter -- murderous ingratitude issuing forth in one who is imbued with ambition. It is ambition that lies at the root of these efforts against God and against Christ, and so the citizens of Shechem, being relatives of Abimelech on his mother's side, become a party to the murderous course of this ambitious man. One is not merely speaking historically; it is a question of the bearing of a passage of this kind on the present moment, and the danger of ambition, and the lengths to which ambition will go -- the human heart being still the human heart -- the efforts to gain partisan support, and then the lengths to which ambition will go in order to gratify itself -- the casting aside of all right feeling.

Abimelech's supporters furnished him with seventy

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pieces of silver out of the house of their idol to carry out his nefarious scheme, employing vain persons to accomplish the designs of his wicked ambition, and he murdered seventy persons of his own brethren on one stone. You ask, why on one stone? To bring out the utter hardness of the heart of the murderer. "Harden not your hearts", God says. This terrible incident brings out the unrelenting ambition of this murderer to attain his end, that he did not hesitate for a moment -- brother after brother slain, seventy of them on one stone, without a qualm in his conscience. That is one dreadful anti-christian feature, appearing at this early date. The thought of brethren had come out in relation to Gideon, and this son of his is utterly devoid of the feelings of a brother. He is on the line of Cain. Brotherly love is to be cultivated and maintained, otherwise we are exposed to the influence of hatred. That is the position; this murderous ingratitude exists abroad, against Christ and against those who love Him, His own, for these were the sons of the saviour of Israel at that time, as Jotham points out. The testimony was rendered from the top of the mount, where he uttered the remarkable words recorded here. The pith of his remarks is in the suggestion, typically, as to how the evil should be met, that each one retaining his own place should not be drawn aside by party influence or tempting offers. Party influence is a most pernicious and subtle thing, and the effect is seen in those who get into the current of it. Preservation from it, as Jotham's parable teaches, is in holding to the position in which God has set you. God has graciously saved you, graciously forgiven you, graciously given His Spirit to you, and He has set you up in the exercise of profitable service to the brethren -- do not move from it; any influence to divert you from that in the least degree is of the devil.

Jotham pictures the olive refusing the offer of the trees that it should rule over them: how firmly it

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inquires "Should I leave my fatness, wherewith by me they honour God and man?" As a type of a christian it was consciously functioning, and hence was not deflected. John the baptist was serving in a lowly yet effective way, and the devil would divert him. It is said that "the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem" to him; Jerusalem was the centre of religious distinction and authority, and the messengers intimated that it was ready to honour him. Will he be diverted? No, he abode in his place, and gave Christ His place. That is our salvation in the face of such tempting influences. Likewise the fig tree has its service, to minister wholesome sweetness amongst the saints -- surely a service of great importance. No, says the fig tree -- or, rather, the brother who sees that he has the Holy Spirit, and can minister sweetly to the Lord's people -- No, I will not leave this blessed service that God has given me for any tempting offer. And likewise the vine, who rises, I suppose, to the most exalted thought in the passage, ministering to "God and man". It is a very great matter to minister to men in preaching and visiting; all very good; but think of ministering to God also, cheering God and man! God is leading us up to this. The vine is occupied in it, and refuses to be deflected from its good employment. The service must go on, and a deaf ear is turned to the offer to rule over the trees.

One knows what is in one's heart naturally, and speaks feelingly, for ambition to rule is in every human heart; but the danger I am speaking of is the possibility of its active presence in the hearts of those of us who are professedly walking in the truth. As I said, the point of Jotham's speech is, Do not leave the service that God has graciously given you to perform. However tempting the offers, our salvation lies in holding to the positive line on which God has set us. Besides this, we enjoy the sense of His approval, and His favour is better than life. Nehemiah refused a tempting

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offer to come down to the plain of Ono, which is just looseness or latitudinarianism, and just the opposite to that which I have been saying. It is a suggestion to leave your moral elevation, suitable to God's testimony, and to come down to a human level. Nehemiah says, "I am doing a great work, and I cannot come down. Why should the work cease, whilst I leave it and come down to you?" Nehemiah 6:3. The vine was doing a great work, and so is one who ministers to God and men; and one proves himself to be an overcomer who turns a deaf ear to suggestions or offers that would divert.

I pass on to Chronicles to show how a state of things that seems at first to be of God, may come about amongst the saints, but may ultimately prove to be rooted in evil, and may develop into opposition to God. Jeroboam's rebellion had seemed to be, and was, indeed, governmentally promoted by God. God creates evil, we are told (Isaiah 45:7); that is to say, things or persons in themselves evil may for wise purposes be allowed to attain positions of prominence or influence.

God's judgments are unsearchable and His ways untraceable, and He is not obliged to give account of His matters; it is for us to look on and discern what is essentially of Him and for Him; and on the other hand, what He allows in His governmental ways, and which in itself is evil. The latter is seen in Jeroboam, and it is met by testimony rendered in moral elevation.

Some eighteen years had passed by, and Jeroboam had developed his true character. Let us be sure of this, that time will bring everything to light. I say time, but I mean God in time. God is the Author of time, and He is the first to have employed it. In the order of things with which we have to do, He created the first day, and so with every day of the working week. So it is in any time; time enters into any matter that arises amongst us, and faith will say, God is in this and will work in it for a result which will be to His own glory. Indeed, God said in regard of what is now

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under consideration: "this thing is from me". Faith has to find out the divine end in such matters. What does this mean? Why should the son of Nebat be on the throne of Israel? It is surely an exercising matter for the saints of God.

At first Jeroboam seemed right, whilst Rehoboam failed sadly; but time brought out where Jeroboam was. Let us be assured of that; God in time makes everything clear. Jeroboam being a politician, and every party man among the people of God has this character, has to manipulate and calculate, and he said, If liberty is granted to my people to go to Jerusalem, they will turn away to their master, and will slay me. It came to light that he was thinking only of himself. The man who was seemingly raised up of God is now disclosed in his true character. So he took counsel and set up two calves of gold, one in Bethel and one in Daniel He formally established idolatry in Israel. Idols in Bethel and Dan would be conveniently available to the people who are told that these were their gods, who brought them up out of Egypt. He ordained a feast for the eighth month, the Spirit of God adding that Jeroboam devised it out of his own heart; it was his own scheme to divert the people from going to the house of God in Jerusalem (see 1 Kings 12:26 - 33).

That, dear brethren, is the sad background to this remarkable speech of Abijah's. He stands up on mount Zemaraim in the presence of Jeroboam, who had a tremendous army -- eight hundred thousand armed men of Israel against four hundred thousand which Abijah had. The position therefore was one of outward weakness on the part of Abijah and of strength on the part of Jeroboam, and this leads this priestly king -- and let us remember that true priesthood is the great essential in all the service and all the administrations of God -- in the presence of such opposition, to stand on the mount and make this spiritual address to Jeroboam and his great army. I wish you to follow

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what he says, so that we may see the bearing of it, why it is written down by the Spirit of God, and why I have read it this evening.

He addresses Jeroboam and all Israel: "Ought ye not to know that the Lord God of Israel gave the kingdom over Israel to David for ever, even to him and to his sons by a covenant of salt?" He starts on the firm ground of an everlasting covenant of God -- a covenant of salt. We are challenged in this as to whether we understand what is divinely fixed, what God has committed Himself to; and that whatever may happen, even His governmental actions which seem to be against it, as time proceeds, it will become evident that God is "the same yesterday, and today, and for ever" (Hebrews 13:8), and that His gifts and calling are without repentance; that we may stand on the firm ground of the unalterable purpose and promise of God. It is a "covenant of salt", he says. Think of this man, in the presence of this overwhelming multitude, bringing forward this great spiritual thought that there is "a covenant of salt", and that all man's might and all his doings cannot overthrow it. Then he proceeds and says, "Yet Jeroboam the son of Nebat, the servant of Solomon the son of David, is risen up, and hath rebelled against his lord". In other words, passing over what seemed to be the hand of God, at bottom this man was actuated by ambition, and he was a sinner of such a kind as to pass on his sin, for we are told of one after another of his successors that they were guilty of the sin of Jeroboam the son of Nebat. Now he is exposed.

Abijah further says, "And now ye think to withstand the kingdom of the Lord in the hand of the sons of David". Note the sure ground Abijah again takes; it is the kingdom of Jehovah itself. See how he rises to the full thought of God in the kingdom. The kingdom is the Lord's. Some may think that being in a certain position they may carry out certain plans or prevent certain thoughts being carried through, but let us be

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reminded of this, that the kingdom is the Lord's. Although He has made us a kingdom, yet the kingdom is the Lord's. It is an everlasting kingdom, and it is "in the hand of the sons of David". That is a spiritual thought, and one might say much about it. There is the Son of David, and there are the sons of David, and Abijah asserts here that the kingdom is not simply David's kingdom but Jehovah's kingdom, yet in the hands of the sons of David. These are the ennobled ones, these are the pedigree ones, these that stand out in dignity and have right and ability to exercise the kingdom of Jehovah.

Then he proceeds to say to them, "Have ye not cast out the priests of the Lord?" He arraigns Jeroboam and his party. They had cast out the priests of the Lord, and they had set up their own priests of all classes of men, not of the sons of Levi. So it is today. The so-called priests in christendom are exactly of this order, whilst God, keeping us in a humble attitude, would help us to call attention to the true priesthood, and not only that the true priesthood exists (1 Peter 2:5), but that it is functioning. That is the point I want you to note. We may say much, and comment on what there is, and perhaps truthfully, but the test is whether things are functioning among ourselves. So Abijah goes on to say, "as for us, the Lord is our God". "Our God" is a phrase that runs through Scripture. Who is He? "To us there is one God, the Father", we say (1 Corinthians 8:6). We have come into the light of the revelation of God in Christ -- His Father and our Father. It involves real christianity and God is helping His people in it. The true service of God is carried on by those who know Him in this way -- they worship Him in spirit and in truth. He is the Father of Christ and He is the God of Christ, and He is our Father and our God, and we assert it. It stands in contrast to the idolatrous state of things that is abroad. Jehovah is our God, Abijah says, "and we have not forsaken him". The time had

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come for this. Had Rehoboam attempted such a speech it would have been wholly unbecoming to him, but now in the mount of Zemaraim, eighteen years afterwards, things having changed, God having acquired His place again, here is one who says, "we have not forsaken him". Let us challenge our hearts as to it. What Abijah says is in type and principle the assertion of christianity -- nothing less than that -- at the present time. The enemy would seek to terrify us as to our part in it, but it is christianity or it is nothing. May we be able to say truthfully, "we have not forsaken him"!

The king goes on to say, "and the priests, which minister unto the Lord, are the sons of Aaron, and the Levites wait upon their business". Let any one come and see! One point in the gospel of John is just that: "Come and see", John 1:39. I am only bringing out the principle asserted here as to what is actually functioning, and it tells the true tale of what God has effected. In Revelation 11, the word was to measure the temple, the altar, and the worshippers. You see they are there; there is the temple, there is the altar, and there are the worshippers. God is aiming at bringing about in principle what He set up at the beginning -- real christianity, nothing less than that. Whether it be in few or many, it is to be this, and it is to be no partisan matter. David said earlier, "Carry back the ark of God into the city", 2 Samuel 15:25. Although for the moment ousted from his capital, he would not form a party; the ark in Jerusalem was the centre of the divine thoughts, and it would remain this. Hence as David's faith reckoned, God brought him back as king to Jerusalem. As recognising the ark in its true significance, we shall refuse partisanship; we can never really reach any divine end on partisan lines.

These are the principles which Abijah asserts here. He says, "the priests, which minister unto the Lord, are the sons of Aaron". What that means today is,

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that there are true spiritual men who minister by the Spirit of God and have no confidence in the flesh. Then, the "Levites wait upon their business". Let every levite here understand that he has a business. Is he attending to it? Is he waiting upon it? Or are his own material matters -- family matters and the like -- first with him? The levite waits upon his business; he attends to it. Woe be to us if we do not, as levites, attend to our work! "Cursed be he", says the Spirit through Jeremiah, "that doeth the work of Jehovah negligently", Jeremiah 48:10.

Abijah continues, "And they burn unto the Lord every morning and every evening burnt sacrifices and sweet incense: the shewbread also set they in order upon the pure table; and the candlestick of gold with the lamps thereof, to burn every evening: for we keep the charge of the Lord our God; but ye have forsaken him". The lines are clearly drawn; Abijah says, You have forsaken Him, we have not. There are those today -- and they are, alas! the vast number -- who have in heart and by practice forsaken God; and there are those, comparatively few, who love Him; and who, like those with Abijah, adhere in practice to the principles and order governing God's service, and God is with them. Indeed, Abijah says, "behold, God himself is with us for our captain". That throws to the winds all mere party leadership.

Abijah further says, "and his priests with sounding trumpets to cry alarm against you". God's rights and testimony, the testimony which Satan is so viciously attacking in these last days, is still sounding out among His people. We are to keep sounding out the truth; to get fresh things from the Lord and minister them in the power of the Spirit; thus there will be the overthrow of the enemy's strongholds. Jeroboam ignored the word of God and prepared to attack the one through whom it came. He "caused an ambushment to come about behind them: so they were before Judah, and the

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ambushment was behind them. And when Judah looked back, behold, the battle was before and behind: and they cried unto the Lord, and the priests sounded with the trumpets".

I call special attention to this, particularly in relation to the meetings of the kind we are now engaged in. These meetings, large or small, are intended of God as occasions when, by His Spirit, He sets out the truth and proclaims His testimony. He would have us continue them, also all meetings of a less general character; but let all the services be in the power of the divine anointing, all carried on by the true priests of God. Judah here, in the midst of the ambush, cried to God; every true warrior of God prays. Abijah prayed, and the priests sounded with the trumpets; victory was certain. How stimulating for faith is the scene, as the enemy attacks in power! Jeroboam was overwhelmed. Half a million of his warriors are slain; he now has less than Abijah. I am stressing particularly the manner of the victory. It is through prayer and by the saints functioning as God has set them, especially the priesthood sounding out the testimony.

Now I think you will see that in following this line we need have no fear. As each is holding the position divinely assigned to him, and functioning in it, especially the priesthood sounding these trumpets, God gives the victory. May God grant the continuance of all this until the end.

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HEADSHIP

Ephesians 4:15, 16; 1 Chronicles 23:1 - 6, 24 - 32; 1 Chronicles 24:31; 1 Chronicles 25:8

J.T. The object of this meeting is to look into the truth of the headship of Christ with a view to what is said in Ephesians relative to increase. The passages in 1 Chronicles enlarge on this, showing that under David's influence, Solomon being installed as king with David, the principle of headship developed and brought out the best there was in Israel and also what was needed for the varied services. All this corresponds with what the Lord is manifestly doing in our time, bringing out what there is, especially in the young. Solomon was on the throne with David, and we have in evidence a great experience with David, the striking revival that marked this closing period of his life, the great evidence of the knowledge of God which he had, allied with the freshness of youth in Solomon. The great thought of sonship in youthfulness was associated with David on the throne.

We have therefore a most auspicious state of things in 1 Chronicles 23, great wealth having come in according to chapter 22. David had numbered the people wrongly; he had numbered them in a fleshly way, taking account of so many persons evidently to add to his importance; doing things for our own glory is always pernicious. He learned his lesson, and now we have this great wealth. In chapter 23 he sets up Solomon on the throne, and we have numbering of another kind. The persons are numbered in regular order so as to bring out what is there for God's service, especially bearing today on the young brothers and sisters, that they might be available for the needs of God's service and testimony. Christ as Head would bring out what there is and make the best use of it.

Under Moses the Levites were numbered as from

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thirty years old and upwards, but by the last words of David the age was reduced to twenty, thereby greatly increasing the number, but not decreasing the efficiency, for the labour was less onerous. There is no suggestion of the efficiency of the service being decreased, but rather an increase in the kind of persons needed -- that is, persons in the light of sonship and yet youthful. That is the special thought I had before me.

Eu.R. Would the thought of the increase of the body and "its self-building up in love" involve what is going on in a general way among the saints?

J.T. I think that is what the Lord is doing. The centre is Christ, viewed as ascended, in this chapter. "But that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same who has also ascended up above all the heavens". I believe the Lord is calling attention to His personal greatness, having ascended above all the heavens, that is, finally entering into the uncreated realm; but according to Ephesians 4 He is operating through the gifts for the edifying of the body: for "the work of the ministry, with a view to the edifying of the body of Christ; until we all arrive ... at the full-grown man". All the saints are in mind; the young are in mind, not that things should be brought down to them, but that they should move -- should arrive "at the full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ". Verses 15 and 16 contemplate self-edifying in love amongst us, but as holding the Head; as "holding the truth in love, we may grow up to him in all things, who is the head, the Christ: from whom the whole body, fitted together, and connected by every joint of supply, according to the working in its measure of each one part, works for itself the increase of the body to its self-building up in love". There is increase -- as Christ is apprehended and held as Head.

W.C.G. I suppose there is the danger of missing

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that and being tossed to and fro according to the fourteenth verse.

J.T. Verse 14 is the danger of the moment: being "babes, tossed and carried about by every wind of that teaching which is in the sleight of men, in unprincipled cunning with a view to systematized error". That is the danger, many are caught by it, but the appeal is to the young, that they may arrive, with others who have arrived in measure, "at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ; in order that we may be no longer babes".

S.J.B.C. The full-grown man -- is that collective? Is it possible for an individual believer to reach the "measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ"?

J.T. I think so. Full-grown man -- the article is not there. It is the character of the thing. The word is for the young that they may be no longer babes. There is much ministry, many meetings, but then what movement is there? What are we all arriving at? "Until we all arrive ... at the full-grown man".

W.H. Things are not to be left to one or two. It says, "according to the working in its measure of each one part".

J.T. That is what is in mind, that we might understand what it is to be "fitted together, and connected by every joint of supply". I think 1 Chronicles opens up the truth of this vividly to us. The Spirit would show us what a scene we are brought into. Solomon is on the throne. David has put him there, and immediately that is done, "he gathered together all the princes of Israel, with the priests and the Levites. And the Levites were numbered from thirty years old and upward; and their number, by their polls, man by man, was thirty-eight thousand"; then "David divided them into courses according to the sons of Levi: Gershon, Kohath, and Merari". In verse 24 we have the allusion to number again, "as they were reckoned, by number of

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names by their polls, who did the work of the service of the house of Jehovah, from twenty years old and upward". The suggestion is, I think, that David is pleased with what there is. The Levites are a large number and available for all the different services, but in the verse lower down the age is reduced, which would automatically increase the number. That is the point to keep in mind; the Lord would bring out here the reducing of the age and thereby the increasing of the numbers of the kind of persons needed. Their quality and their character is already seen, but now the number is increased. The work being different from what it had been in the wilderness, makes this right and wise. It is to bring out the service in the assembly where the work is not so onerous as it was, but refined work, highly skilled work; and so we have a great deal made of the work. "Their place was by the side of the sons of Aaron for the service of the house of Jehovah", 1 Chronicles 23:28. They are not viewed at a distance carrying heavy loads, but they are working beside the priests in the most refined kind of service. In the casting of the lots we are told it was for the chief fathers just as for the youngest of their brethren. Then again, in chapter 25:8 "they cast lots with one another over the charges, the small as well as the great, the teacher with the scholar". The type brings out vividly what is meant in Ephesians, so as to give the young a status with older saints, and to give them to understand that they have a part in the great work that is proceeding. The quality of the work is not to be reduced, but the number of the levites is to be increased. Hence the importance of young people getting beside those more spiritual; they are to work beside the priests, their brethren, the sons of Aaron.

F.I. Does the service become less onerous as we come into the truth of sonship?

J.T. The understanding of sonship makes it easier. You are more free; you are not afflicted by legal, self-imposed

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restrictions. Many in their service in the assembly endeavour to work themselves into a state equal to it, whereas sonship gives you a restful feeling in the presence of God. Being a son, the young one has the same status as the older brethren. All this is very important because it bears upon the spiritual education of the young; from the very outset they are given to understand that their place is in the sanctuary. That is the mind of God for them.

J.O.S. Is the character of levitical service in the land distinct from the wilderness service?

J.T. It is. The age in the wilderness was thirty; although when they were offered up to Jehovah, He immediately reduces the age to twenty-five years, as if He wishes to convey that now that they were before Him He is pleased with them (Numbers 8). The Lord loves to have the young before Him today also. Under David's regime, we are on different ground; we are in the land, not on wilderness ground; it bears on the assembly as convened; the ark is in its place. What is in mind in 1 Chronicles is the service of God in its heavenly setting. The wilderness service, the carrying of the tabernacle, is not in mind; the ark is at rest. The Lord is specially helping in the service of God in the assembly, and that is not for the fathers only, all the young are to be brought into it, not to reduce the quality of the service but to increase the number of those who worship.

Ques. Does verse 25 of chapter 23 give what prompted David to reduce the age? David said, "Jehovah the God of Israel has given rest to his people, and he will dwell in Jerusalem for ever".

J.T. That is the thought -- dwelling in Jerusalem.

A.J.G. How would you distinguish between the service of the sons of Levi and that of the sons of Aaron?

J.T. We get the sons of Aaron distinguished immediately, in chapter 24; but chapter 23 brings the Levites by their side. It says, "For their place was by the side

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of the sons of Aaron for the service of the house of Jehovah, over the courts, and over the chambers, and over the purifying of all holy things, and for the work of the service of the house of God" (verse 28). That paragraph gives us the nearness of the levites to the priests, and yet the levites' service would be subordinate to the priests' service; that is, they would assist the priests. Then we have formally stated the divisions of the Sons of Aaron into twenty-four courses; and then we go back to the levites. Chapter 25 is a question of song, showing what is in the mind of God. In verse 7 we are told: "the number of them, with their brethren that were instructed in the songs of Jehovah, all of them skilful, was two hundred and eighty-eight". You have twenty-four courses of singers. It is a question of the excellency of the service, and yet all brought into it.

A.J.G. These levites and priests of Chronicles almost seem to merge, do they not? Does the service of the priests indicate the underlying state and inner side, and the service of the levites the public side?

J.T. Yes, what is more public, for in the service of chapter 23 they would not enter the holy places. We have the further service of the levites in song and then as doorkeepers. In chapter 26 there are doorkeepers and their services -- much needed today. Every young brother should study these chapters, so that each may find his place, however young he may be, that he may find out what God thinks about him, how as a son he is numbered and can take part in the assembly. The instruction is for sisters also, of course. It all makes for the increase of service and increase of meetings, increase of quality, and also in quantity. In Acts 16, where Timothy first appears, we see how he is brought into the service. The priestly element in the apostle discerns him, and there you also get increase of meetings; they increased every day, it says. I think the young are left out too much; indeed they often leave themselves out. In these chapters, where sonship has its

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place, they are given to understand that they are not left out, and the age is lowered to include more of them.

Eu.R. The young are to understand that they have a status in heaven as bearing on this service.

J.T. Yes, the assembly of the first-born written in heaven, contemplates the true levites. Then as to the young, chapter 24 says, "These likewise cast lots just as their brethren the sons of Aaron before David the king, and Zadok, and Ahimelech, and the chief fathers of the priests and Levites, -- the chief fathers just as the youngest of their brethren". And then again in chapter 25:8, "And they cast lots with one another over the charges, the small as well as the great, the teacher with the scholar". The casting of the lot means divine selection, and after all, it is a question of the mind of God; all are under the eye of God. The lot is cast without regard to age, it is our heavenly status in view of quality for service down here. The young brother or sister sees that the lot is cast for him as it is for the oldest brother in the place, and that awakens a sense of responsibility.

F.I. So that the service can be carried on in measure by the teacher and the scholar.

J.T. The whole disposition is of the Lord, and He brings into evidence who is who, but in principle all the young are brought into it.

L.M. Is it your thought that no young one should abidingly be silent in the assembly?

J.T. Quite so. These chapters bring out that the most is to be made of what is in a meeting. Headship would make the most of what is there.

L.M. What would you suggest where there seems to be no move in that way, and yet all the meetings seem to be enjoyed?

J.T. Well, there are dumb priests. Sometimes it is dumbness like Zacharias; it may be judicial, but it may be of the enemy; the enemy affects brothers in this way. It may be through want of habitual self-judgment,

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through timidity or legality, or ignorance of sonship; but the service is hindered, the liberty proper to the assembly being hampered by the presence of dumb brothers. Then there is often the absence of the sense of responsibility. These chapters should appeal to such. The lots are cast for all. There is a variety of services. One may not be fitted for one service, but he may be fitted for another. In every case he is included in the number of those responsible.

S.J.B.C. Referring back to the last verse of 1 Chronicles 23, we have three charges: the charge of the tabernacle, the charge of the holy place, and the charge of the sons of Aaron their brethren. Might not that refer to degrees in service? Those who are more matured and more able would engage in the charge of the sons of Aaron their brethren. It seems to be a higher charge than those who have the charge of the tabernacle of the congregation.

J.T. Yes. The paragraph referred to alludes to the general service of the levites in its most exalted character, those refined things that they had to attend to in the tabernacle as assisting the sons of Aaron their brethren. The levite is not viewed exactly as a priest, but he is there near the priest. The next chapter brings in the priests by themselves, but the nearer I am to them, the more I am one of them practically. In the antitype the priest and levite are two features of the same person -- a true christian.

S.J.B.C. It has always been a difficulty to me that the levites, when they reach a certain age, were retired, but they were still to keep a charge.

J.T. Yes, but the priests' service still goes on, there is no limit. That would mean that the levite merges into priesthood. There is no such thought as retirement in the things of God; but levitical work required more strength, not only spiritual ability, but also mental and physical ability. These may wane, but spirituality goes on to the end.

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S.J.B.C. It says that they still kept the charge, they would not be absolutely retired.

J.T. That would imply priestly service continued.

W.J.H. We are in the days of the last words of David now, and there is more opportunity for the development of the levitical and the priestly service of the saints.

J.T. That is what I was thinking. It is the end of a great development of the truth. The ministry which the Lord is carrying on has all this in mind, to bring out, as Head, what there is amongst us. These chapters are highly spiritual and peculiarly instructive, running on to the end of 1 Chronicles. They are wonderful as to the close of the dispensation -- what the Lord is indicating. One is impressed with the recurrence of the word "head" or "chief" throughout these chapters, and in the last chapter it is applied to God Himself; that is a great thought. It is the wisdom that is in Christ, and subordinately in the saints, that brings out the best that there is amongst us, to bring out all that there is available for service, because there is variety of service, and if you are not available for one you may be available for another; but whether as doorkeepers or singers, we are all numbered and divided up into courses according to the wisdom of God. You can see what is in mind, to what a state of things the Lord is drawing attention, as in contrast to the state of apostasy around, He would bring in the young in view of the service. The idea in the number twenty-four is, that all the services are to be carried on in divine order and in intelligent love.

W.H. In the days of Ezra the difficulty seemed to be in the lack of levites. Would that suggest the need for exercise on our part that we should fill out the service?

J.T. That is right. It should not drift into a few hands; it should be spread abroad that all should be brought into it; and the word "head" throughout these

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passages controls that, so that although there may be many young in the service, divine order is maintained; they are not out of control. Headship is the prominent idea throughout, so that, if you have a number of old brothers, headship will make room for them, as possessing mature experience and intelligence, but at the same time it will make room for young brothers also.

G.C.S. Zechariah had that in view: the angel said, "Run, speak to this young man", Zechariah 2:4.

J.T. Quite so. He should have the mind of heaven. Some of us were speaking of the danger of young men like Rehoboam having a coterie of their own kind. He had a party of young men who were brought up with him and they stood before him instead of standing before Solomon as the old brothers did. They stood before Rehoboam evidently even while his father lived. That is a pernicious thing. These chapters would prevent that, because the old and young brothers are placed together. Let us keep clear of parties. Rehoboam had certain who were brought up with him and stood before him, and they brought him to disaster. The lot being cast places things in the hands of God. The whole disposition is in the hands of the Lord, and through the result of the lot it will be manifest what you can do and what I can do.

Rem. The casting of the lot would prevent the democratic principle coming in.

J.T. That is an important thing; God known among us would prevent that. The lot implies God's choice -- He makes this manifest.

Eu.R. God among you of a truth.

J.T. Yes, that is through prophecy, of course, but even this enters into God's selection.

Ques. Would this priestly service result in the development and exercise of gift?

J.T. Priestly service itself is not gift, but it certainly enhances gift. It is the soil in which gift grows, but priesthood belongs to all the saints, and these chapters

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show that things are not to be in the hands of a few. All the saints are to be brought into it.

Ques. Does levitical service apply to sisters? One would think of Phoebe.

J.T. Yes. There is much said in Scripture of what sisters may do.

F.I. Can levitical service be carried on rightly apart from the priestly side?

J.T. We must have the priest. According to Numbers we must have the priests, and they must have the first place if the levites are to serve. It is a question of what is spiritual in the meeting, and that will dominate the meeting unless man's will is actually working. The spiritual should dominate. That applies to all matters of difficulty, local or otherwise. Man's will is against the spiritual, but the spiritual will dominate in time. So it is said in Deuteronomy that at the mouth of the priests, the sons of Levi, every matter is to be adjusted. They are custodians of the law, of the mind of God. We may be sure that as there is waiting upon God, the spiritual element in every meeting will prevail in due time. In some instances, alas! through party feelings, man's will prevails; then the spiritual are obliged to withdraw. But generally God comes in and this is prevented.

F.W.K-t. Do we see the priestly state at Antioch, and then the brethren sent forward?

J.T. Quite. The levites went out in that setting. The Spirit directed that Barnabas and Saul should be separated for the work to which He had appointed them. Priesthood is of immense importance, because so much officialism comes in to hinder the mind of God, but the mind of God will prevail. God will support the spiritual to this end. What we are saying now, based on these chapters, is to bring out the place the young have, and how as understanding sonship, because Solomon is on the throne, they are delivered from legal fear, and are able to take part in the assembly.

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These chapters are to show that heaven is taking account of them. They have a status alongside the oldest.

J.O.S. Do you think Paul had this liberty in mind for Timotheus in saying, "see that he may be with you without fear", 1 Corinthians 16:10?

J.T. That is the idea. The older ones should see that the young should be set free as much as possible. On the other hand, the young are to respect the older ones in the spirit of subjection.

G.C.S. Is our being translated by the Father into the kingdom of the Son of His love, so that fear may be dispelled?

J.T. Quite so. Solomon is a type of the Son of the Father's love.

F.I. Is it because the old and young are to move together that in Matthew's gospel, the Lord, in speaking of the ass and colt, tells the disciples to say, "The Lord hath need of them", Matthew 21:3?

J.T. Exactly, and He sat on them, showing that they were both used. David shows that here -- David and Solomon are on the throne together. Sonship is brought out at this juncture to make way for headship, that the young may be liberated and have a place in the service of the assembly. In chapter 24 we have the twenty-four courses of priests, which thought continues into the New Testament, but then in chapter 25 we have David and the captains -- the military are brought in. It may be inquired, What has the military to do with singing? It has a great deal to do with it. It is a question of the brethren being in conflict, and this means that God is to be praised. That is always the end of victory, which God grants to those who trust Him. Thus in chapter 25 it is a question of the singers, and the family thought is prominent. We have "David and the captains of the host separated for the service those of the sons of Asaph and of Heman and of Jeduthun who were to prophesy with harps and lutes and cymbals" (1 Chronicles 25:1), the total number being two hundred and eighty-eight,

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which gives twenty-four courses: that is, God is praised on the principle of twenty-four courses: meaning, as I apprehend, that headship is cumulative; here it includes all that came in under Moses. There is nothing lost that is of God; in the new order of things all is brought in, and this increases the wealth of the house of God. There is nothing of a past service or order lost; it is all gathered up.

W.J.H. In Revelation there are twenty-four elders with harps.

J.T. That is the cumulative thought; all that precedes is gathered up. This shows how headship implies divine wealth. Then we have in chapter 26 the doorkeepers and the storekeepers, so that there is nothing allowed to come in that is extraneous, and all that is good is preserved. There is a remarkable range of service, and if I am not effective in one I may be in another. I think chapter 26 is most important, for the things that were dedicated of old are all treasured up; nothing is to be lost. No true servant of God today will minimise what those of earlier days have done. He will make the most of it. It is all a question of accumulated wealth. What is of God is from Himself, whether it be through Abner, son of Ner, or Samuel; all is to be treasured.

E.J.McB. Then in these last days the brethren should be gathered together in all the wealth of Christ, viewed both as David and Solomon. Labourers pass off the field, but what is of God in their work remains; and others are used for further development and enlargement.

J.T. Yes. I see that the Lord is stretching out to the young; the older brethren are constantly being removed, and these chapters are to show that whilst older brethren are here they make room for the younger ones, and they thus get a status alongside the older ones.

A.E.D. "The youngest of their brethren ... the

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teacher with the scholar". That would ensure continuity and enlargement.

J.T. That is the idea. There is a carrying on. If we drop down to the level of Rehoboam we lose the ministry of past days, because Rehoboam, even while his father lived, had a coterie around himself as we have seen. He did not stand by his father, but made himself a centre. That is a most pernicious thing amongst young men.

Ques. Would the opposite be seen in Timothy? He was Paul's "true child in faith", 1 Timothy 1:2. The apostle said, "bring ... the books, especially the parchments", 2 Timothy 4:13. Would the books suggest what had gone before, and would the parchments refer to his own ministry?

J.T. Well, possibly so. "Books" suggest a library, which every brother should have; they contain earlier ministry, and servants need it. Parchments would be current things, or perhaps material for writing. Through reading earlier ministries the young become not only instructed, but sobered and steadied. If they do not pay attention to the older brethren they will miss much. In Rehoboam's young days the older men stood before Solomon, but he did not, he had young men to stand before himself. When he came to the throne he asked for the advice of the old men, but he did not act upon it. He had recourse to those who had been brought up with him, and stood before him. If young men do not pay attention to the old men, they miss the gain of past ministry.

J.B.C. Would that ensure balance? Elisha accompanied Elijah.

J.T. When they started from Gilgal, Elijah went with Elisha. That would show consideration for the younger man by the older; and then Elijah says, "Abide here, I pray thee; for Jehovah has sent me to Bethel", and Elisha says, "As Jehovah liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee", 2 Kings 2:2. He will remain with his older brother until he is taken from him. It is most

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important for the young to keep with the old, providing of course that they are spiritual.

E.J.McB. There is a good deal of importance in the fact that the old men said to Rehoboam, "speak good words".

J.T. That is right. They say, "speak good words to them, they will be thy servants for ever" (2 Chronicles 10:7), but he did not take their advice.

F.B.W. Would keeping near to those who are older help one to find out his sphere of service?

J.T. I think so. You find that here. The disposition of each is of the Lord. The lot means that God determines my work, but the lot is cast for the young with the old, and the range of service is wide. Chapter 23 speaks of the most refined things with which the levites have to do; we have singing in chapter 25, and door-keeping in chapter 26.

W.H. It is in keeping company with the older brethren that the young would be first proved. Paul says to Timothy, "let these be first proved".

J.T. Then there is such a thing as earning for oneself a good degree, as in the case of Stephen. These brothers that were appointed deacons (Acts 6), were full of the Holy Spirit and faith, selected by the people, but appointed by the apostles; they were only appointed to one work, that is, serving tables. There were greater services than deaconship, and Stephen purchased for himself a good degree, and much boldness in faith which is in Christ Jesus. He wrought wonders and great signs among the people, and had the honour of presenting the closing testimony to the Jews. Philip became an evangelist, showing how the range of levitical service is opened up to us, and indeed a gift and the service it fits one for may be a matter of desire. I think God greatly loves right desires in the young.

Ques. Would the thought of the young being adjusted and generally helped in their service through

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keeping company with the older brethren who are spiritual, be illustrated in Joshua and Moses?

J.T. Very much so. In the opening of the book of Joshua he is called Moses' attendant. Well, that has a double meaning. It has the meaning that he had a great advantage, but it also means that he was not like Moses nor ever could be. Then you have it with a man like Elisha, as already remarked. It is said that he poured water on the hands of Elijah. That is a fine tribute. He did not wish that his master, as he called him, should be removed that he might have a wider field, but he poured water on his hands that he might, as it were, work better.

W.J.H. In the system which David set up, in the list of services, there is provision made for measure and capacity. It is encouraging that even if our measure is small we are not useless.

Ques. Would the verse, "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise" (Matthew 21:16), bear out what you are suggesting?

J.T. It would. Matthew enlarges on that very point. The gospel of Matthew, which most of us will know is the administrative gospel, requires maturity, but he makes more of children than any of the evangelists. He dwells on Christ as a little Child; then he speaks of the saints as babes: "I praise thee, Father, Lord of the heaven and of the earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to babes", Matthew 11:25. They were the ones -- persons who had no status from the standpoint of knowledge and intelligence in the world, but that were capable of receiving things which were hid from the wise and prudent. Again in chapter 18 Jesus calls a little child to Him, which would mean that a brother is within call of the Lord, he is not deaf. The Lord sets him down in the midst of the disciples and He says, "Unless ye are converted and become as little children, ye will not at all enter into the kingdom of the heavens".

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Then in chapter 21, children were praising Him in the temple, "saying, Hosanna to the Son of David". How did they come to say that? How did they come to use such a word as that at that time? Evidently they had been learning; they knew what to say in the temple, and the chief priests and the scribes said to the Lord, "Hearest thou what these say?" And the Lord says, "Yea". He heard there nothing more distinctly than what these children were saying. They were praising Him. And He answers those who objected: "have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?" I think Matthew would greatly encourage young people to take up the attitude of learners, and in due time they come to take intelligent part in the assembly.

Ques. Isaiah speaks of vessels of small capacity, vessels of cups, vessels of flagons. Would that give us the idea of varied capacities in servants? There are circumstances in which a small vessel would be used in preference to a large one.

J.T. Yes. They are all dependent on Christ. We all know that in using vessels we like a small one on certain occasions. Take an assembly meeting; certain ones always take part, but how sweet it is when a young brother takes part having a spiritual touch! There is a freshness about it. It sometimes gives tone to the whole meeting.

Rem. The little maid did not know much, but she said, "would that my lord were before the prophet that is in Samaria", 2 Kings 5:3.

J.T. Yes; she spoke intelligently and feelingly.

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DIVINE OWNERSHIP

John 17:6 - 26

J.T. I was thinking of divine ownership, and we may look at it before proceeding in the chapter. We rightly speak of the Lord's creatorial rights of ownership of the saints, and His redemptive rights, but perhaps have not thought much of ownership from the standpoint of counsel and election; these, I believe, form the highest plane on which the thought stands, and it fits in peculiarly with John. He has in mind the most exalted relations of the saints, and the Lord touches these in this chapter and speaks of ownership -- the Father's ownership of the disciples so as to give them to Him. If we took account of ourselves as owned in this way, it would elevate our thoughts to what the Lord is aiming at, to lead the brethren on to the divine level, not only as to divine Persons Themselves, but as to ourselves, and John's gospel particularly has this in mind. I do not think many get beyond being purchased through the death of Christ, but ownership extends back to counsel and election. The Lord says, "I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest me out of the world. They were thine, and thou gavest them me, and they have kept thy word. Now they have known that all things that thou hast given me are of thee; for the words which thou hast given me I have given them, and they have received them, and have known truly that I came out from thee, and have believed that thou sentest me. I demand concerning them; I do not demand concerning the world, but concerning those whom thou hast given me, for they are thine, (and all that is mine is thine, and all that is thine mine,) and I am glorified in them". If we trace divine ownership of the saints back to the eternal counsels of God, I think the effect would be to elevate us. Not in any way detracting from God's

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creatorial rights over us, and His redemptive rights, there is what precedes those, so that in John's gospel, those who receive Christ obtain the title to take the place of children of God. Then we are told that they were born of God, not that they were purchased with the blood of Christ, but born of God. It is not that our purchase in the death of Christ does not enter into it, but we must keep in mind the level on which John is speaking here.

E.J.McB. Is the purchase by the blood of Christ the platform that allows us to rise to this platform?

J.T. Yes. It relieves us of all claim against us, all encumbrance, so that we might enter on to the platform of counsel, and it is from that platform John is speaking, and he has it in mind when he speaks about the Father's ownership of the saints.

F.S.M. Do you distinguish between "they were thine" in verse 6, and "they are thine" in verse 9?

J.T. Yes. They were the Father's obviously before He gave them to Christ. How do we take account of it? We have Peter's conversion recorded, but he was given to Jesus as owned of the Father. We cannot say that the ownership was simultaneous with the conversion of Peter; we must date it back further than that to get the divine thought. Conversion is a great matter; the atoning work of Christ which made conversion possible is, of course, a great matter, but the thought of ownership goes back further than these, and I think the Lord may help us to see how real this is, how real the counsels and election of God are.

H.H. Would the previous chapters of the gospel have regard for producing men of this kind? Is it the work of God?

J.T. That is the trend of the gospel. This whole gospel is to lead us up to this chapter, and chapter 20 formally gives us companionship with Christ as His brethren. Here He is speaking to God and showing

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how He regards the Father's ownership before the saints were given to Him.

M.W.B. Do I understand that ownership creatorially and then by virtue of redemption were parts of the ways of God, but previous to that there was ownership in the sense of eternal counsel?

J.T. That is the idea. It is in God's mind that we should rise to the level of the source of the stream, that is, that the origin is in eternal counsel. Redemption ownership is effected through God meeting in righteousness the question of sin.

A.B. Would Ephesians 1:4 bear on it? "According as he has chosen us in him before the world's foundation".

J.T. That supports what we are saying.

J.O.S. Is that why He calls them men?

J.T. Yes; it is in keeping with John's gospel: "In him was life, and the life was the light of men", John 1:4. That is, it did not go beyond men. God is saying, as it were, I am operating in relation to men, they are in My counsels. The light that shone in Christ was in relation to men; this gospel is the light in the sense in which it applies to them. "The true light ... lightens every man".

J.J. How would Acts 20:28 come in? "The assembly of God, which he has purchased with the blood of his own".

J.T. That comes in in time. It does not interfere with the fact that Eve was a type of the assembly before sin came in. There was no need of purchase intimated in the formation of Eve. The statement, "which he has purchased with the blood of his own", would allude to the fact that its members have come under the influence of sin and had thus to be purchased by the blood of Christ. It is what the assembly is here in testimony. The assembly seen in its heavenly and eternal relations -- Eve being the type, before sin came in -- has its origin in Christ in death. It is of

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Him and has had no sinful history. It is wholly a new creation.

Eu.R. Does that involve God's foreknowledge of persons as subjects of His work? We have to leave out everything but the work of God in taking account of this.

J.T. The work of God is the outcome of His foreknowledge. He knew each of us. It comes home; I think that with us this matter of counsel and election is just a matter of doctrine, but we must think of ourselves as the elect of God. Foreknown before the foundation of the world: what a thought that is! All must fit in with it in infinite accuracy, in the full result. God has His number and there will not be one more or less, nor will there be anything but what is in accord with His thoughts. John has that in mind in the way he brings in the saints at the outset, stressing their birth: not, who were converted, but "who have been born ... of God".

M.W.B. Then you would expect there would be a perfect result from the knowledge of this.

J.T. I think you would agree that there is. It elevates you to link up your genealogy with God. What can be higher than that?

M.W.B. Then as to circumstances, according to Romans 8:28, you know that all things work together for good according to that eternal purpose: is that the line?

J.T. Quite so: "to those who love God, to those who are called according to purpose". We must not forget that it is not only that we love God, but that there is something that antedates that -- "called according to purpose".

Ques. Is the apprehension of this necessary to put the saints in liberty for the service of God in the assembly?

J.T. Yes; to set us in liberty for the ground that God intends us to be on -- the ground that, in His mind, we are on as true believers. God will effect all

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His mind in time, but it is a question now of our apprehension of it, and the Spirit is always working to bring us to it.

E.J.McB. Your point is more connected with what God has for Himself in the saints than what they have got from Him?

J.T. Yes; His ownership of them, according to His counsel, what they are as the fruit of His work. In Chronicles and Kings, Solomon builds the temple, and generally, what is there refers to the saints. God is there too, of course, but I mean that in the woods and metals and the furnishings used, the saints are in mind, and the time comes when the priests do their work, and do it well, and reach a point in unison in the singing and the music, and then God fills the scene. He takes charge of the whole temple, and His glory fills it. Well, the question arises, What is God occupied with now? What does all that mean? Why is it the priests cannot serve there? Obviously, it is that God has the saints typically there according to His counsels. He gave David the pattern by the Spirit, and all the things presented in the temple speak of God in relation to the saints. God would say, as it were, I want all this for Myself; there is no need of priestly ministry for the moment; they are now before Me according to My own thought. God is surely entitled to clothe us with His own thoughts. He is entitled to think as He did when He took counsel. Whatever there may be wanting in us in detail in formation or growth He can regard us in that light, and delight in us as before Him. Balaam's prophecies help us to understand this. In Ephesians we are said to be raised up together and made to sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ. God will have us according to His eternal purpose, rejoicing in us, but not simply as priests, but sons, that is, in family relationship.

A.J.G. Is that involved in the word of the Lord in

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verse 7: "Now they have known that all things that thou hast given me are of thee"?

J.T. That shows how He is clothing them in His own thoughts. "Now they have known that all things that thou hast given me are of thee; for the words which thou hast given me I have given them, and they have received them". The Lord here is occupied with the most exalted thoughts of His ministry amongst them, with the most precious and exalted things that He had before Him, and He is clothing them with having received those thoughts, accrediting them with them. They were the Father's property. God is entitled to look at me as a converted sinner, that I am His property; He has bought me with the blood of Christ. He is entitled to do that, and He does; but He is entitled to take account of me as in His counsels before there was any sin, and the Spirit being here enables us also to do that, to take account of ourselves in that abstract way. It is essential that this should be understood and acted on -- to abstract ourselves from what attaches to us that is extraneous to our heavenly calling.

J.S-t. Would you say that when they took up the twelve stones out of the bed of Jordan and carried them over and put them down, they were then coming to it?

J.T. They came up out of death, where Christ lay; quickened and raised with Him. Their origin there is from Him in death, their wilderness history terminated there. But we are speaking of the counsels of God which go back further. The Lord is here speaking to His Father from the standpoint of the persons. You can understand how He would take up the most exalted thoughts as to them.

Ques. When the Lord says in verse 10, "I am glorified in them", is that as clothing them with those divine thoughts?

J.T. That is right; they are looked at in that way. He says, "I demand concerning them; I do not demand concerning the world, but concerning those whom thou

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hast given me, for they are thine, (and all that is mine is thine, and all that is thine mine,) and I am glorified in them". It is all from this standpoint, and surely it is due to the Lord that we should allow Him to take account of us as in the divine counsels, and to make us sensible of it.

H.H. J.N.D. speaks in the note of "the words" in verse 8 as "divine communications". That is helpful, is it not? The Father communicating to the Lord on this line, but having the saints in view.

J.T. The words are communications that the Lord would receive at different times from His Father, and He would impart them to His own. One can understand, as He went out from Jerusalem at night to the mount of Olives, how such thoughts would come from the Father, and how He would impart them to His own, and what joy He would have in looking at them from that standpoint, what dignity too as connecting them with the eternal thoughts and counsels as to them. Then in His company they would be drawn into the atmosphere of it.

W.J.H. The apostle Jude seems to have touched it a little when he says, "to him ... be glory ... from before the whole age", Jude 24,25. It is as though he had understood something of what was "before the whole age".

W.C.G. Does what you say show the contrast between Luke and John? In Luke it says, "This man receiveth sinners", but in John you have persons who receive this divine Person, the One whom the Father had sanctified and sent into the world.

J.T. That is right. "As many as received him". The Lord speaks of them here as viewing them in that way: "they ... have believed that thou sentest me". The Lord as regarding them, undoubtedly was calling to mind the happy times He had had with them unfolding divine thoughts to them. No doubt the Lord would recall those things and view them in that way, and know too -- as He only could know -- that there

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was some little response to what He was saying, which made them so much more precious in His eye.

L.M. Does David correspond at all with this in 1 Chronicles 29, when he emphasises that all the store secured for the temple belonged to God?

J.T. "All is of thee, and of that which is from thy hand have we given thee" (1 Chronicles 29:14); it is on that line. 1 Chronicles rises to the idea of divine headship, and that God is the source of all, and it is crowned with the thought of the Son, all subject to the Son. The chapters in the end of 1 Chronicles open up to us in type what we are speaking of, because David received things by the Spirit, and he speaks of the temple in a most exalted way. When Solomon built it, it was not said to have been anointed like the tabernacle, because the idea of anointing does not go into eternity. The Spirit is there, of course, but the anointing is for testimony. In the temple it is a question of intrinsic worth -- what God delights in as typifying the saints, as we have been saying.

Eu.R. Does it link on with Zion in Psalm 87:6? "Jehovah will count, when he inscribeth the peoples, This man was born there".

J.T. It does in a way, but it is more the thought of "born of God", as John says in the beginning of the gospel: "who have been born, not of blood, nor of flesh's will, nor of man's will, but of God".

Ques. "For this my son was dead and has come to life" (Luke 15:24); does that bring the thought in?

J.T. Well, yes. The father always regarded him as his son, but he "was dead" and had now "come to life"; and he is clothed with the very best thoughts, and those best thoughts include the counsels of God, because the best robe involves the best thoughts of God for a man, and he is clothed with those. Christ in heaven now is the full expression of them. John greatly supports this great feature of the truth.

M.W.B. You have distinguished between the

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thought of born of God in contrast with the work of God in regard of this question of counsel. Would you say a little more about that?

J.T. Being born of God links generatively with God. New creation is not generation; "born of God" implies the latter. Not that we have a personal origin before we are actually born, but there is the thought of divine lineage; it comes out in Genesis. God's people were His people before they went into Egypt; they were His people before they left Egypt, before they were redeemed. "Let my son go", He says (Exodus 4:23). All that bears out what we are saying, that before redemption we have the idea of divine ownership. There is more than a mere creation in connection with Abraham's seed; there is birth; Isaac was typically Christ.

Ques. Does the thought of "Jacob have I loved" (Romans 9:13) enter into this?

J.T. I think so; it is how they are regarded before the children knew anything.

M.W.B. I would like to get it a little more clearly. The epistle to the Ephesians touches the thought of counsel and new creation, and the greatest work of God is referred to there. Would you distinguish between the two?

J.T. I would. We are said to be chosen in the Beloved. It is the persons in the mind of God before the world was, and new creation, it seems to me, is not enough for that; it is birth that is needed for that. Sonship is higher than new creation.

E.J.McB. Is the Ephesian epistle more the way counsel is reached by ministry through various servants, and this more the mind of God that was behind all that?

J.T. Yes. John supports Paul. We have often said it, but perhaps we have not had it just in this way, but John supports Paul on the family line. The family line must be a limited thing. We were chosen in the Beloved and predestinated unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, and I believe if we look into Genesis

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more from this point of view we shall see that God was working on this level in calling out Abraham, because it is a question of parentage that is in mind. His name was Abram, meaning 'high father', but is changed to Abraham, "a father of a multitude", Genesis 17:5. It is to bring out what answers fully to the mind of God.

Ques. Would you say a little more as to the distinction between new creation and being born of God?

J.T. I do not know that I can, but there is certainly a great distinction to be made. As born of God, I am of the order and character of God in a moral sense, and what can be greater than that? In new creation all things are of God, but the idea of creation includes inanimate things, the idea of birth does not. If I get on to the line of God and an offspring of God, I shall see that is the highest thought, and Christ is the expression of it: "Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I have found my delight", Mark 1:11. God will bring all of us to that. Its source is in His counsels, and all must rise to that. The millennium is not on that level; it is for testimony, God in it meeting conditions that have arisen. We may have part in it, but it is not on the level of God's eternal counsels, although it merges into the eternal state of things.

Ques. Is it important then for us to be able to take account of ourselves from the divine side?

J.T. It is indeed. In our chapter the Lord is, as it were, speaking to His Father in our hearing, and He is taking account of us as a gift to Him by the Father, which plainly shows that we belonged to the Father before He gave us to Christ. Before He gave Peter to Jesus, Peter belonged to Him. You might say that he belonged to Him just because he was converted, but that will not do. John does not give his conversion, except his second one in the last chapter. In the gospel of John, Peter comes to Jesus, and the Lord says, "thou shalt be called Cephas", John 1:42. He speaks of him at once as related to divine thoughts.

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A.A.E. Do you take what you are saying as referring to the saints of all ages?

J.T. Yes, the relation in which they will be brought in. There will be families in eternity. Those in whom God wrought from the outset will be included. Each family will appear according to the testimony in which it was developed.

A.A.E. I was wondering whether new creation is something distinctly christian. Could you speak of new creation in the Old Testament?

J.T. It is anticipated, although not definitely named, while God was going on outwardly with man in the flesh, things effected in view of His counsels were not named formally, but we can now see them. They are indicated in Hebrews 11. You can trace what was new in the men and women mentioned. The nearer you come to the New Testament in reading the Old, the more it strikes you. God says definitely in Isaiah, that He is going to make things new (Isaiah 65:17).

D.L.H. Would not the Old Testament saints come in on the final resurrection line: Scripture speaks of the dead in Christ being raised? Now, in the New Testament, it says, "if any one be in Christ, there is a new creation", 2 Corinthians 5:17. That would seem to link the Old Testament saints with the idea of new creation.

J.T. I am sure that is right. What God created in the six days of Genesis 1 was spoiled through sin. What is He going to do now? I believe God began again on the line of creating. It awaited redemption for public establishment, but it was there. The spirits of just men are regarded in Hebrews 12 as "made perfect".

Ques. Is there a similar thought in Romans 9:23, where Paul speaks of "vessels of mercy, which he had before prepared for glory"; and then, he immediately brings in the thought of ownership in "My people" and "Sons of the living God"?

J.T. Yes. God prepared us for glory. As has been

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remarked, the dead in Christ -- although the apostle is mainly occupied with christianity -- includes all, and not only are they born of God, but there is a work of God which is called new creation.

Eu.R. Does "of him are ye in Christ Jesus" involve the heavenly family? It is persons, "ye". Does he not seek to elevate their thoughts in that way?

J.T. Quite so.

J.J. Would you say that the sphere where all these high thoughts are enjoyed now is the assembly? It is lifted above the individual.

J.T. That is exactly what is in mind, and is, I believe, what God would press upon us as instructing us in it. You enjoy it in company with the brethren. You enjoy it as light and knowledge in your own soul at any time, but it is realised in the company of the saints. Ephesians contemplates that we are raised up together; that is, the spirit of christianity leads to that, that we enjoy things together, and this chapter helps us as regards the assembly in this sense, that it contemplates the love that the Father has for the Son and that that love is in us. That is what I consider is the highest kind of love. There are three kinds spoken of in regard of divine Persons. There is the love of Christ, and the covenant love of God, and the love of the Father for the Son. I think the latter is the highest thought of love, and that love is to be in us (verse 26). That is, according to the Lord's mind here, we are to be able to love Him with the kind of love with which the Father loves Him. That is what I think the Spirit would lead us to as together in assembly. There is the love of Christ in the Supper, and there is the covenant love of God also in the Supper, but beyond that, there is this that we are speaking of -- the Father's love for the Son, and that is to be in us. It is there, I think, that we come into this line of things and we date back our origin to the counsels of God. What an elevation that is! What a wonderful thing it is that we are on that platform!

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The Lord's words here would build us up in the thought of it. We belonged to the Father and He has given us to the Son. And He says, "I sanctify myself for them, that they also may be sanctified by truth", meaning that His present position answers to the divine thoughts for us, and that through the truth we should be brought up to that level. That is what the Lord has in mind; it is a question of the amazing truth of Christ's present place as Man in heaven being the measure of ours.

Ques. So, would you say, in the contemplation of that, "whether in the body I know not, or out of the body I know not", 2 Corinthians 12:2?

J.T. If you think of God and all these thoughts it does affect you in the way of ecstasy. The Lord in saying, "I sanctify myself for them, that they also may be sanctified by truth", has in mind that He has taken the most exalted place for us, that we might be sanctified through the truth relative to it. The Spirit coming out from Him there unfolds the truth of it and leads us in apprehension and conformity to that point.

S.J.B.C. Would being born of God imply the communication of a new moral being in the soul?

J.T. Yes, and hence you are enabled to take in divine thoughts. That is what comes out here. Our origin being from God, we have ability to take in divine thoughts, and so the Lord says, "the words which thou hast given me I have given them, and they have received them". Think of the capability they had from His point of view!

J.J. Would you say why only the Lord's voice is heard here? No one speaks to Him.

J.T. It is the Lord's prayer. He had been speaking to the disciples, but now, He lifts up His eyes to heaven and says, "Father". So that our ears are to be supremely attentive to follow what He means. What is He saying? What is in His mind? And if you follow what He means, your soul becomes elevated and enlarged, and you are drawn into the divine current of things. That is really

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the effect of apprehending how the saints are regarded there.

M.W.B. Would you say a little more about sanctification by the truth?

J.T. It is a question of the level to which we are to be brought. Some of us recently were speaking about sanctification in Hebrews 2, backward from chapter 13 to chapter 10 and to chapter 2. In chapter 2, He came in in this way: "For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make perfect the leader of their salvation through sufferings. For both he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one; for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren", Hebrews 2:10,11. I think that links on with verse 19 of our chapter: "I sanctify myself for them, that they also may be sanctified by truth"; He is going to take a place far beyond the millennial thought, far beyond anything that attached to Israel. He is going to take the place that God designed for man in His counsels, and the truth is to come out as to that; because you cannot have the truth of it until He is in it, until He is there. He is there now as Man, and the Holy Spirit comes out, and mainly through Paul's doctrine and ministry we have the development of this truth, so that we might take up this heavenly position. That is what is meant by our sanctification by truth. Then, He says to the Father, "Sanctify them by the truth: thy word is truth"; the whole opening up of the mind of God is truth, and our sanctification is in the sense spoken of here. Verse 3 is not on this level, it refers to eternal life. It is "Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent". Eternal life is said by the Lord to consist in the knowledge of the Father as the true God, and of Jesus Christ whom He sent.

J.O.S. Does the first part open up what the Lord says when Judas had gone out, "Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. If God be

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glorified in him, God also shall glorify him in himself, and shall glorify him immediately"?

J.T. I apprehend the Lord has in mind that the going out of Judas would mean that He would be glorified morally in glorifying God in death, that He would carry out the will of God even to death, and then God would glorify Him immediately. That is, He would not have to wait for the millennium. I suppose He glorifies Him in relation to the assembly. The present period is in view in the immediate glory.

H.F.N. Would you mind saying how chapter 20 bears on what you have been remarking?

J.T. This really is the top stone of the doctrine. Nothing can be higher than what the Lord had in His mind in saying, "I sanctify myself for them, that they also may be sanctified by truth". He has in mind that He is taking a position in heaven, and the Spirit coming out would unfold the truth of it to us. But then, in chapter 20, the Lord says, "I ascend" -- "go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father ...". There you have a divine Person in manhood ascending, and the message going in the meantime to the brethren. It is the message of the ascending One; He is in principle ascending, and He says, Tell them that it is to "my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God", John 20:17. That gives us a definite relationship with Himself. You do not get that relationship formally in chapter 17; it is just "the men" there, but in chapter 20 it is His brethren. That is, there is a definite relationship intimated that is to exist for ever. Ascension is the ground of christianity. Sometimes brethren assume that the ground of christianity is resurrection. If it be a question of dealing with the adverse power it is so; we are impregnable on that ground, but if it be only resurrection we shall not get beyond resurrection. The millennium is in principle resurrection, but we are on higher ground, and I think chapter 20 intimates the ground, that it is an ascending Christ that calls us His

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brethren. Ephesians 2 corresponds: the great love of God takes us into heavenly places -- raises us up together and makes us sit down there together.

M.W.B. That would impart a richness to our praise and worship.

J.T. That is what is intended. When you think of what the Lord had in His mind as about to die, and how He speaks His mind to the Father -- and how the disciples are called men, in keeping with the first reference to men in the gospel, and then that they were the Father's, and that they were capable of taking in divine communications, that they were the Father's and the Father's were Christ's -- you are impressed with the greatness of being admitted into such thoughts.

W.C. Is the idea seen in Acts 10, in the sheet let down from heaven and taken up again?

J.T. That is the thought. We have to regard the creatures in it as symbolical of men.

J.J. Would you regard the Lord as Head in relation to the assembly in this chapter, or would you connect headship with chapter 20?

J.T. Well, as regards the actual service, you might say He is the High Priest here in chapter 17. I would connect headship with chapter 20 because He conveyed His mind in the message to them. He is not speaking to us here, but to the Father. He is the High Priest with the saints on the breastplate.

H.F.N. You made a remark recently with regard to the difference between the immediate mediatorial system and what is mediatorial in all its richness and fulness, entering into the final state of things.

J.T. There is what we might call the official mediatorial system, and I think there has been a tendency with us to restrict all mediatorial service to that, but the more you think of it, the more you must admit that without the principle of mediatorial service we could not be in relation with God at all, as He dwells "in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor is

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able to see". There must be One between us and God, and that will subsist eternally. We can know God and be in relationship with Him, only through and in Christ.

Rem. So the service of the High Priest is mediatorial in that way.

J.T. It is, but in the eternal state of things it will be the Son, and all that we shall know will be through Him, and thus will be in measure compassable. We shall not be lost in infinitude; all will be intelligible, because it is in a Man.

S.J.B.C. It will be seen in manhood.

J.T. In 2 Chronicles 5 we are told that the priests could not stand to minister as the divine glory filled the house. But that does not mean that the persons are shut out from the scene, for the things in the temple refer to persons, but persons viewed according to the eternal thoughts of God, not in their official capacity. There were a hundred and twenty priests, and their service as such was manifestly acceptable, but they could not serve at a certain point. That is, God is occupied now, not with the official side of our position, but with us as representing His eternal thoughts in men.

M.W.B. Then, would you link that with the thought of what is morally divine in nature -- before Him in love?

J.T. That is right, Christ being the Leader of that and the full expression of it. God does not open the heavens and say, Thou art My Servant. He speaks of Christ elsewhere as Servant, being well pleased with Him, but at the Jordan, it is "Thou art my beloved Son", Mark 1:11. It is not only what He was doing, but who He is "in whom I have found my delight", Matthew 3:17. His work and walk were delightful to God, but it is "in whom I have found my delight". It is the Beloved, as in Ephesians.

Eu.R. So, whilst the priests could not stand to serve, may the same persons (speaking of christianity) be there in the liberty of sonship?

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J.T. Certainly. The priestly side is dispensed with for the moment; there is no need, God says, I want you on another ground altogether, I want you to take account of yourselves according to My purpose for you, and that is sonship.

Eu.R. We are privileged to pass over to that realm after the breaking of bread, after getting the gain of the covenant.

J.T. Quite so.

J.J. Practically this is very little reached.

J.T. That is true, but let us ponder it. God is entitled to view us in that way, and we also should be free to so regard ourselves, even if only for a moment. When He said to Jesus, "Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I have found my delight", it was the Person -- not the Servant, but the Person -- and so, as He looks on us, it is what He has in us in this sense. Even if only for a moment, He is entitled to it.

D.L.H. When we are conformed to the image of God's Son, there will be no need of priesthood.

J.T. That is so, and how delighted God will be with us!

D.L.H. The Spirit would lead us into the good of that already.

J.T. That is the next thing. If the Spirit be not here, all we are saying is only a matter of doctrine, but the Spirit will support us in abstracting ourselves according to what we are in the purpose of God.

J.S.E. Would you say a word as to "the glory which thou hast given me I have given them"?

J.T. That is what is conferred or given by the Father. But there is a glory which is incommunicable, which is in verse 5: "now glorify me, thou Father, along with thyself, with the glory which I had along with thee before the world was". But there is the glory the Father has given to Him. Whether it is wrapped up in the voice from heaven at the Jordan, or on the mount of transfiguration, it is glory conferred on Christ as

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Man which He could pass on to men. I suppose it involves sonship.

Ques. What is the force of the last sentence: "that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them"?

J.T. I think He is at home in us as possessed of that love. It is the kind of love with which the Father loved Him.

D.L.H. Does that not correspond with the thought in Colossians: "Christ in you the hope of glory"?

J.T. Pretty much. The stress there is on "the hope of glory", but here, it is on "in them". The Lord has a restful place amongst us as the Father's love is in us.

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PRIESTHOOD

Revelation 1:5,6; Ezekiel 44:15 - 18, 23, 24

I have in mind to speak about priesthood, and I felt it appropriate to read from Revelation -- a book that is addressed to the seven assemblies, and so to ourselves -- for, whilst those seven assemblies in the province of Asia are used to symbolise the whole assembly at that time, they also symbolise the whole assembly of all time, that is, the assembly down here. The book contemplates the assembly, too, in heavenly places, coming down from God out of heaven, but it is its militant or testimonial circumstances that are in view, and John writes as a prophet, but as one known otherwise in the more exalted office of apostle, and in the more exalted place still of the bosom of Jesus.

These form the background of the book and lend peculiar glory to the writer, seen especially as he opens the book with buoyancy -- I may say, with jubilance. Notwithstanding the dark things around and in the distance, he is stimulated, and shows that the pending events in no way hindered him from enjoying his own portion. That is, he was "in the Spirit on the Lord's day". I suppose that is how he spent his Lord's days as in prison. Were he free he would join with the brethren as he had opportunity, and share the privileges of the assembly with them. One often pictures these great servants in their movements, how they could take their places with their brethren and each be a brother among the brethren.

These things enter into this first chapter. John speaks of what Jesus has done for us and has made us, in relation to what was pending. He worships, showing, as often appears, how prominent the thought of worship was with the great servants at the beginning; it was always present, you might say; whenever an occasion offered, it was there, to spring up as in the power of

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the Spirit, a well springing up unto everlasting life. "To him who loves us, and has washed us from our sins in his blood, and made us a kingdom ..." John says. You can see that word does not allude to our eternal part; it alludes to what we are today, what the saints are now.

In chapter 5 we have a like statement. According to the best authorities, the word in chapter 1 is "a kingdom", and not "kings", but those alluded to in chapter 5 are said to be "kings and priests". But here, it is "a kingdom, priests to his God and Father", but not to ours. That is, John does not rise to the level of the well-known twentieth chapter of his gospel. It is His God and Father, and that He has provided Him with a kingdom of such persons; He has made such persons as ourselves, with all the saints of the dispensation, a kingdom. It would be the saints at any given time on the earth. Moreover, He has made us "priests to his God and Father" -- He has provided Him with priests. So you can see, dear brethren, that what is in mind is available to God in view of the contingencies that had arisen and would arise, especially the terrible things anticipated in the book. What a great thing it is for God to have a kingdom of such persons!

Now a kingdom involves power, and power where it is needed. It is wonderfully ramified and furnished, for it could not subsist save with certain furnishings, and these furnishings lie in the Spirit; they lie in the authority of Christ as Lord, but in the Spirit. No ordinary kingdom can exist, save in name, without power, such as an army, navy, police, courts, prisons, and so forth. The body politic is supported by all these ramifications. Well, that is what the Lord Jesus has made us -- a very great matter in view of what is transpiring, that there is a kingdom here that is no mere matter of name or profession, but in power: "not in word, but in power", says the apostle (1 Corinthians 4:20), and the more we are together in affection and

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intelligence, the more we realise this, and prove that there is what is impregnable here, a "kingdom which cannot be moved", Hebrews 12:28. So that we can lift up our heads in this way with the helmet of salvation, knowing that we are possessed of and surrounded by an almighty power, the Spirit of God here ready to act wherever He has room. The more we are together in the acknowledgment of the supremacy of Christ in authority, and in subjection one to another, the more we prove the means of standing up against evil.

There is a second thought, and that is the priesthood, and it is "unto God", as you will observe in this passage, as also in chapter 5:10; but in chapter 20 it is "of God". The saints are contemplated in chapter 20 in three classes, and it says that "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years" (verse 4); that is the general statement. And then the Spirit of God refers back to this great thought, saying, "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years" (verse 6). They are priests, not "unto", but "of God and of Christ". It is well to anticipate these things and rest in the immensity of the thought of those who have part in the first resurrection and what are their privileges, but it does not go beyond the thousand years; the mind of God is set for the moment on that period. He has great thoughts in regard of that period, and He needs a priesthood in it. I do not apprehend there is any need for priesthood in the eternal state of things: where there will be no unholiness, no evil to be dealt with, no enemy of God. Priesthood is in view of contingencies arising from the flesh in us or outside of us, the state of things in the world; it is in view of these things that a priesthood is necessary.

The thousand years are a period in which God is completing His testimony, showing what He can do in this world; it is not a perfect state of things, and hence

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there is priesthood, and thus the saints are said to be priests "of God". They are His priesthood; the millennial reign will be marked by this class of persons known as "priests of God and of the Christ". The second statement is not that they live with Him, but simply that they reign with Christ a thousand years. The passage says first, "they lived and reigned", but secondly, that they "reign" with Christ; He has them; they are not only "priests of God", but priests "of the Christ". Christ is the One into whose hands God has put everything, and He has His priesthood, and God has His priesthood, too.

Now these great facts exist, dear brethren, and my object in this word is to bring the thought down to the present time, for the first passage contemplates the present time, that Jesus has "washed us from our sins" -- precious thought -- but He has made us these two things. The point here is not that we are sons -- we are, as we learn elsewhere -- but He has made us "a kingdom, priests to his God and Father". Surely the tribute of praise is suitable: "to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever"; we all would say Amen to that, but the point is as to this priesthood and the need for it. It will be needed, as I have said, in the millennium, but it is needed now pre-eminently. In these last days, when conditions are so complicated and darkened by man's innovations in christianity, how essential it is to fall back on this great fact that we are made by Jesus "priests unto God and his Father". God, as it were, at any time, can point to us and say, They are My priests.

One might refer to many passages to fill out what I have in mind, but it does not always help to multiply passages. It honours the brethren to assume they know something about Scripture. Ezekiel has a large place in this subject; he is himself called, not simply a priest, or one of the priests, like Jeremiah, but he is called "the priest", in the beginning of the book; and

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not amid the pristine glory of the metropolis of God in Jerusalem, but far away by the river Chebar among the captives. There he was among the captives, but he was the priest of God there. It is as if God would honour the thought that a man could retain his priesthood in such circumstances. Let nobody complain of circumstances and say, Were I in other circumstances I could take up these things. Look at Ezekiel by the river Chebar, far away from the beloved city, amid the captives; there he is, and he is "Ezekiel the priest". He gives us the date of the vision. His book is marked by dates, a matter to be observed, for it points to the divine calendar.

That God should come in and think in time is very touching. He inhabits eternity, but He has been pleased to come into time; He has now come in to dwell among men, which is a greater and more blessed fact. But He was pleased to come in and work a day's work -- wonderful thought that the eternal God, the Creator, the Upholder of all things, should come into time, create a day, and then work in that day! What interest there was in heaven as the blessed God was seen operating day by day! So that He inaugurated time, but He shows us what time is for -- to operate in, to do one thing at a time, and finish it. A full day's work was completed on each day, and every day's work was good. It is true that of the second day it is not said that it was good, but the last verse in Genesis 1 says that everything God made was "very good"; the workmanship of God in creation was completed, and very good, so that God could rest on the seventh day. It is wonderful how God comes into our way of thinking, and so Scripture says that He was refreshed after working.

Well, I have digressed to speak about time, Ezekiel giving so many dates, and every time he spoke about dates, he would be bowed in the dust and say, Why do I have to date in regard to this captivity? He would bow to the government of God -- a great matter in

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service. But he retains his priesthood; he says, "the hand of the Lord was there" upon him -- where he was. One in an isolated meeting might say, If I were in London I should get on; but Ezekiel says that the hand of God was on him there. Wherever you are, associate yourself with the state of things as under the government of God, and the hand of God will be upon you there. And what is opened up to Ezekiel? "Visions of God".

I mention all that about Ezekiel because he is worthy as a priest, and it is becoming that he should be brought into this great subject of priesthood. He is like Ezra, who is another priest the Spirit of God dwells upon, giving us his genealogy. His line is traced back to Aaron, through Zadok, Phinehas, the famous priest of Numbers 25, and Eleazar. What a priestly line reached Ezra! And we are told that "This Ezra went up from Babylon". You may be sure that such a man will go up from Babylon as the way out is opened to him. And he went up freighted with divine thoughts and things. He brought the precious vessels of God back, weighed and counted, and delivered them safely, in spite of enemies, at Jerusalem. That is Ezra. And, as I said, Ezekiel is correspondingly worthy of being brought into this great subject. He is brought into it by the Spirit of God, and chapter 44 speaks about Zadok.

Zadok is the priest that I intend to dwell upon, and speaking of him I wish to point out that things that are exemplified in Scripture, the great principles of God, cannot be said to be exemplified by all the people of God. What you find is that they are usually exemplified in certain ones, and what is exemplified is accredited to the whole. That is important, because I believe the Lord, in speaking to Philadelphia, for instance -- a well-known assembly representing the remnant -- would have us discern He is speaking, not simply to the remnant, but to the assembly. He calls her the assembly at Philadelphia, but He is speaking to the

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assembly through her. Those who love the Lord and love the saints like to hear the Lord speaking about what is nearest to His heart, and if He finds anything that answers to what is nearest to His heart, He will speak about it. He knows it will be valued, He knows He has intelligent listeners.

I believe that is one of the important things to the Lord at the present time, that there are intelligent listeners to what He says, and they know what He means. Were I speaking to a number of persons who were not converted, they would not understand anything I am saying, but I am speaking to persons who have ability to understand the mind of Christ. "I speak", says the apostle, "as to intelligent persons: do ye judge what I say" (1 Corinthians 10:15) -- a great matter. It is thus the truth comes out; you cannot open up the truth of God to persons who are not sympathetic, who cannot understand. But God has given us an understanding that we might know, and so the Lord, in speaking to Philadelphia, speaks about the assembly. He says, "I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth", Revelation 3:10. Is He thinking of that assembly alone? No, He is thinking of the whole. Again, "the Spirit and the bride say, Come", Revelation 22:17. Well, who are speaking? Is every saint on earth saying, Come? I do not believe it. Some are, and what they say is accredited to all. It is the bride, the bride's voice, and that is enough for Christ. The Spirit is speaking, and also the bride.

So, as I was saying, this thought of priesthood is exemplified in Moses and Aaron: "Moses and Aaron among his priests", Psalm 99:6. They were true in the main. Levi was true: he stood for God, and the Thummim and Urim were with him, according to Deuteronomy 33. The Thummim is put first there, showing that the perfection indicated in it was there, it had been effected in Levi. Perfection was there in some

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sense, and where that is according to God there is the Urim. This was seen in Moses and Aaron: "Moses and Aaron among his priests". But, as to this, the Spirit of God has Phinehas specially in mind. The thought of the priesthood is exemplified in him at a critical time. It shines out in a crisis; it is what a man is in a crisis, not in the Bible reading, but when something has to be met and adjusted; that is where you get priesthood. It is strikingly seen in Phinehas.

Now, the Spirit of God gives us the genealogy of Israel in Exodus 6, and as you will all remember, He proceeds from Reuben to Levi, and stops; there is nothing about the remaining tribes. He takes up Levi, pursuing the line through Aaron until He comes to Phinehas -- and no more; as much as to say, I have reached a man that exemplifies what I have in mind. What a great thing that is: God, at any time, saying, I have reached the thought for the moment, a man that knows what is in My mind! You do not want to be out of that; it is open to us to be in it, and God can count and rest on one man or on more who understand what is in His mind. That is Phinehas, and God says, I will make an everlasting covenant with that man, that he shall be a priest for ever. I believe that is what is alluded to in Malachi. Malachi is another prophet who deals with the priesthood, and he is worthy to be brought in here. The priesthood had broken down disastrously, and God charges them with this, and He calls attention to Levi: "My covenant was with him of life and peace" (Malachi 2:5); but in truth that covenant was with Phinehas. You see how God's mind rests on the man in whom the thing stood out in a crisis.

Israel was about to be corrupted by the wicked counsel of Balaam, but Phinehas stood in the breach; he was with God in it, and he faced it with the javelin, and he secured "the covenant of an everlasting priesthood" (Numbers 25:13); and, as Jehovah says, "my covenant of peace". Well, in Malachi, that is Levi. Phinehas belonged to

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Levi; he represented the idea, and then the Spirit of God tells us what Levi was, as thus portrayed in Malachi 2. I call attention to it -- in connection with what is stated in Revelation 20, that what is in mind there, "priests of God", is seen in Levi -- a priesthood that God has here and that He looks to. "The law of truth was in his mouth", and righteousness was with him; and then the passage goes on to say, "For the priest's lips should keep knowledge". The mind of God is always there, even on his lips; there is no room for the poison of asps under the priest's lips. How can a man who is constantly speaking about things in this world give advice about the things of God? The priest's lips have to be kept clean; they keep knowledge; not only his mind and his bookshelf, but his lips. The mind of God can be sought at any time; he is always ready to give an answer. That is what Malachi suggests.

Where is our priesthood? Where is the ability to settle complicated matters? Why are things allowed to drag on and defile the saints? These are pertinent questions, and they are applied and addressed to every one here. "Priests of God"; God has His priesthood; He expects that they are recognised, and they come forth where the need exists. "The law of truth was in his mouth". The word "law" particularly fits in with the priesthood, because they were the custodians of the law. Wherever a question may arise, what is the law governing it? The priests should be able to tell us; his lips should keep knowledge. We may say true things, you know, and yet be wanting of the law of truth. It is the law of truth that is so essential.

Well now, as regards Ezekiel, he is considering the priesthood. Malachi was considering a priesthood that was needed at the moment. I suppose it was found in such as Simeon in the gospel of Luke; Luke opens with the great subject of priesthood. There were two worthy persons, Zacharias and Elizabeth. Zacharias was a priest of the order of Abia, but he was wanting,

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he was unbelieving, but we find later that he is a true priest and he speaks as a priest. And so his wife Elizabeth and Mary are priests, and Anna is a priest, and so is Simeon, a "man in Jerusalem". I have no doubt those dear people answered to the need expressed in Malachi. The need was met in those whom Luke presents, and no doubt there are such today. I am far from saying that there are no priests. There are, but let them come forward. They came forward in the beginning of Luke; that is what ornaments the gospel of Luke, and the service of God can only be promoted and ornamented by priestly brothers and sisters amongst us.

Now, Ezekiel is intended to bear on the current time, but he contemplates a future priesthood, and he takes up, not Phinehas, but Zadok. He is the one the Spirit of God has in mind, and like Phinehas, Zadok shone in a crisis. I believe God even allows things to happen amongst us to bring out His priests, and we do not forget them. You say, as to a certain difficulty, I remember that nobody but a certain brother had the mind of God. Zadok shone in David's time, when Absalom rose against him. He was a true man, and David does not call him a priest only but a seer, and he said, You are the kind of man needed in Jerusalem; Absalom is to be there, to be in the palace and in sway in Jerusalem; what is needed there is a man who sees things; and David calls him a seer. He does not call Abiathar his colleague a seer; although he was also a priest and worked faithfully at that time with Zadok.

What is wanted is a seer, a person who sees the good and the evil, but promotes the good. Zadok was of immense value in that dark day, when David had to flee from Jerusalem and leave it in the hands of the enemy. But in the seer, the priests, his friend Hushai, and the two young men, the sons of those priests, David left there a system that would overthrow Absalom and his kingdom; and they did. I am speaking of Zadok

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because the Spirit of God takes him up in Ezekiel. The Spirit links the things together in the Scriptures, although much time may intervene. So here, Zadok, a man that stood when Israel went astray. Let me warn the young people here not to follow a multitude to do evil. Very often we are governed by the many: this and that one sees that way, why should I not see that way? Well, Zadok was different from that; he saw things differently, and he stood by what he saw, and through him, and others like him, the great victory over Absalom was secured, and David was restored to his kingdom. So God says, This is the kind of priest: "the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok" -- they are the ones.

Now I want to show you how the garments prescribed for them have a present application. It says "But the priests the Levites" -- they are not here distinguished from the Levites -- "the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord God: they shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge". Let all our young brothers and sisters just range themselves here and say, I would like to be like them; I would like to be amongst those priests; what privileges attached to them! It is not the brothers; it is a question of the saints; the Spirit of God has them in mind, for all are included in the "holy priesthood" of which Peter speaks. It is a question of having the Spirit of God, and what privileges are opened up to us, as it says in those verses: "they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge". What an appeal that is to all the young people here! The need is great, and God here is holding out what is most attractive spiritually, that He would have us near to Him, a people near to

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Him, but near to Him in His sanctuary, having Himself in mind -- to serve Him there.

Well now, the next thing is, "And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments". Now we are dealing with the inner court, that is, where we draw near to God "in assembly", applying it to ourselves; and the Spirit of God refers to the garments, and says, "they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within". I want the brethren to take note of all this. It is the inner position, applied to ourselves, the assembly. The anointing is there as we begin, but inside, in the inner court, it is the kind of clothes you are to have on. No wool, nothing that causes sweat, as it says here; that is to say, no natural feelings stimulated by singing, by tunes, etc. We are to be balanced, we are to be sober, we are to be holy. And so the very bonnets they were to wear were to be of linen. I do not think that is said elsewhere. The bonnets refer to our minds. The human mind is ordinarily agile, and apt to show itself in this way in divine things; thus the need of sobriety and holiness. The cap is to be of linen -- that I keep cool, as it were, balanced, in what I am saying, that my words in the presence of God are measured. Be "slow to speak" we are told, when approaching the house of God. "I had rather", says the apostle, "speak five words with my understanding" (1 Corinthians 14:19); "I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also" (verse 15). All that refers to a cool linen bonnet that, as it were, keeps the mind steady, for God is resentful of the intrusion of the mind in His holy things.

So, just to finish, in the closing verses it says, "And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according

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to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies". It is not here a mere local matter, but a question of what is general. That is to say, the priesthood of God is never contemplated as local. It may be that some priests reside in this town, for every true christian is a priest, as I said. A priest may reside in this town, but his influence is to be universal; he is one of those who keep the charge of Jehovah. So, in this verse, it is not so much "priests unto God", but "of God", that is, they are His priests, and they are looking after His affairs. In teaching or whatever it be, they represent God here, and everything is to be settled by them. The judgments are to be according to the mind of God, but these men are so furnished, so kept, so dependent, so prayerful, that their judgment is the judgment of God. Is it not so? Can we not arrive, dear brethren, at the present time at a judgment that will carry the consciences of God's people? We can. From time to time this has happened, and no doubt it will happen again. In every controversy, their word is to be listened to; every stroke and controversy is to be according to the word of the priests, the sons of Levi (Deuteronomy 21:5).

That is all I had to say, and I thought it right to bring in Ezekiel, especially as he has the future in mind. May God bless His word to us all!

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THE LOCAL ASSEMBLY

Acts 18:5 - 11; 1 Corinthians 11:18, 19; 2 Corinthians 7:11; Acts 11:17

I have in mind this evening, dear brethren, to speak about the assembly in its local setting, though one can scarcely speak of it in this connection without having the universal setting in mind, otherwise the tendency would be to independency, at least in thought. Detachment in thought in a locality from what is general or universal is always to be avoided. I would beg of the brethren to be assured that what I have to say is intended for general help; for what I have in mind is the truth governing the subject before us. I do not intend to confine my remarks to current local conditions, but hope that we shall all be drawn to the divine side through the ministry of the word and so be better able to look at any given current local conditions from that moral altitude of mind, as I may call it.

Paul, in dealing with the low condition of things, as at Corinth, tells us that he was caught up to, or, as far as, the third heaven, as if he was to prove by experience what heaven is and what spiritual altitude is. The point in this reference is not so much entrance into the sphere, to stay there, but to go as far as that. Jesus went further; we are told He "ascended up above all the heavens", Ephesians 4:10. Paul did not go beyond all the heavens; he only went as far as the third, and thus had opportunity to prove by experience what heaven is; he went past the first and the second, and reached as far as the third heaven. He says, "whether in the body or out of the body I know not, God knows". Nevertheless it was reached, and he knew that. He could count; he was conscious enough, he was in his senses. And then he goes on to say, such a one "(whether in the body or out of the body I know not, God knows;) that he was caught up into paradise", 2 Corinthians 12:3, 4.

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Now that is a matter to be noted in dealing with low conditions -- and let it be observed, brethren, that there are very few conditions other than low in christendom. We cannot say very much; the position at best is extremely weak, and we do well to bear that in mind. In dealing with a low state of things, the apostle brings forward at a suitable time, that he went as far as the third heaven, and he went into paradise; that word, as is well known, meaning the place of delight. One can understand what moral power that afforded to the apostle during all those fourteen years, and how, in dealing with the most distressing circumstances, he could always look down -- he could always take up that altitude in his soul, that exaltation, having proved that a creature can go as far as the third heaven. He was caught up, of course -- he did not ascend in his own power.

This is important, dear brethren, because we are bound to come to it; it is a question of the purpose of God, and the purpose of God is going through. If I hover below the clouds and content myself there, I am simply putting off what is in the mind of God for me. I may do that, but normally I am bound to come to it. Divine love will bring us there, the purpose of God regarding us cannot be stopped, it will go through, and we can only deal effectively with the harrowing things here below by taking up that spiritual altitude. In that way we are superior to what we are dealing with, and so able, in our little measure, to deal with it as God deals with it. The Spirit being here, as He is, ensures that everything is known in a first-hand way, just as it is and where it is, because the Spirit is come down and searches, as we are told. He searches us so that everything is known first-hand, and well-known and handled in infinite moral superiority to the conditions down here in which the conflict may be.

Now with these thoughts before us, I want to speak about the assembly in its local setting -- first as to its

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initial features, as to which the Spirit of God gives us the approach to the subject in Acts 18. The approach is carefully laid out so that as drawing near to this great subject we may arrive at it, and be in it, and serve in it according to God. One thing to be noted is that Paul, the great architect of it, as in this city of Corinth, is first of all occupied in it with ordinary toil and as a tradesman. That is not a mere incident to be passed over, but it is to call attention to what is essential to a local setting, what the everyday life and occupation of the inhabitants may be, because his occupation is pretty sure to affect him, and God takes this into account when taking him up in relation to what He is doing. So the apostle is seen at the very outset working as a tent-maker. He could tell you something about the life and work and experience of an ordinary workman; he would hear at his trade what passed from the ordinary tent-maker, and then, moreover, he lodged with two persons who were of the same trade; their conversation would naturally turn on what they did during the day, not that it would not rise far above this; he and Aquila and Priscilla would have communion as to the things of God, but they were of the same trade, we are told, and he lodged with them because they were of the same trade, not because they were christians; so they were in a position to understand the circumstances of persons of that status. Now that is the idea. I mention it because it is important to bear in mind what the general working conditions are in any given city, and Paul takes account of them as used of God in forming the assembly in that city.

Another item which I would mention as initial, is that the workman is affected by the presence of certain persons. If he is to work in a meeting in which spiritual stature is low, the mind of the saints full of the things that belong to this world, he is hampered. We are told that Paul reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath and persuaded Jews and Greeks, but that when Silas

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and Timotheus came to Corinth, "Paul was pressed in respect of the word"; implying that, whatever the word is, it is urgent, it must come out unhampered; there should be conditions to make it possible for the Spirit to bring out the truth. The truth is not like ordinary matters that men deal with; the truth of God requires the Spirit to bring it out and it requires scope in order to bring it out fully. These are two great essential local features.

Then we are told that some of the Corinthians believed, and that Crispus believed; he was the ruler of the synagogue; a great result in one person is indicated in this. Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his house. Another thing we learn is, that Paul departed from the synagogue and entered into a believer's house, that of Justus; that is an important item. The state of the believer's household enters into the local situation. The synagogue refers to judaism, an effete religion, but it is holding on, and today it is simply the religious element in ourselves, using what may be right in itself, for selfish ends and thus missing the spiritual import of it. The believer's house is a most suitable place; in fact, I do not know of a better place for a meeting than a spiritual believer's household.

Now I want to make clear here, dear brethren, that there is no information or instruction as to Corinth until we are in Corinth. There is not a word about Paul's exercises as to it until he is in Corinth, and then we get all this; all these conditions existing, the Lord comes into the matter and what a triumph it is when He shows His hand! Should He not come in? Shall we not let Him in? Is it not His matter? Is Corinth not His matter? Certainly! All that had been going on was His matter, but now the time had come for Him to come in. He spoke to Paul by night, and His word was to the end that Paul might be free. He said, "Fear not, but speak and be not silent; because I am with

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thee, and no one shall set upon thee to injure thee". If all Rome were to come there, Caesar and all his legions, they could not hurt him. Gallio was there; outwardly, he had power to hurt Paul, but he did not; his very carelessness was used of God to carry out the Lord's wish. "No one shall set upon thee to injure thee", the Lord said. Paul would not defend himself physically; in fact, it would be unnecessary, for the Lord said, "no one shall set upon thee". It was the Lord's decree -- a decree far superior to any decree that was ever issued from Rome; far transcending any decree of man. "No one shall set upon thee", and why? "Because I have much people in this city"; so you see the Lord has more than the adverse conditions in mind; the local assembly conditions are before Him. There is no assembly according to God unless there is room for the Lord to come into it, to say to it, and to take charge of its matters. "No one shall set upon thee to injure thee; because I have much people in this city". Has He not also much people in this city today? He has as to ownership, as to right, but how much does He get out of it? Ministry is to make a way, to clear a way for the results that the Lord intends.

Well now, I pass on. It says in the last verse I read, "And he remained there a year and six months, teaching among them the word of God". Mark that word "among" them; all through these verses we read of what happens in Corinth; everything that happens there; and Paul is there for eighteen months among them. It is the local setting and Paul is teaching the word of God; he is the great architect of what is to be constructed for God, and he is opening up the mind of God. The people are there, but can they be secured? Can they be built into this wonderful structure that God has in His mind? Paul had the pattern. He laid hold of the Lord's mind exactly; he stayed there eighteen months, which was a good proportion of the years of his service, for he did not serve comparatively long.

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It does not say that the Lord told Paul to stay there for a year and a half. He did so because he knew what was in the Lord's mind; he understood the Lord had a treasure in the place and he says, as it were, I will stay here until I get it. Anyone there could have seen Paul's manner of life, the way he went in and out the houses during those eighteen months.

In pursuing this subject I want to show clearly what relates to the local assembly, so that we may have that in mind. After Paul left, alas! the breakdown happened. One of the first complaints he makes in the letter is that "there exist divisions among you", and he gives a list of the parties there. That was what heavily weighed on his heart; but still there was another condition equally bad; there was an incestuous person there; immorality of the worst kind, and not only in one person, but we learn there were others who were guilty of this kind of thing, and, added to that, there were personal enemies of the apostle. His faithfulness drew out the enemies who were there; they were inside. What existed there in Corinth served to bring out what the Lord had in His mind, and the apostle opens his epistle with this: "to the assembly of God which is in Corinth". What a dignified title that is! As Paul was writing the epistle he would be touched with the Lord's thought about His people in Corinth, in spite of all that had come in. He addresses "the assembly of God which is in Corinth". You may say that some there were not of it at all, and that is true, but the Lord does not refer to them, nor does it affect the title given.

The address, "the assembly of God which is in Corinth", is the assertion of divine ownership, not in regard of the saints viewed in heavenly places, but divine ownership of something here in this world that would stand against all that is opposed; that is what is in the mind of God. Think of the greatness of having part in that! You may say that it does not apply now; but it does; that is just what I want to point out; it

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applies in this very city where we are gathered today, and the saints, with others in this city, all belong to God. There is in this city what pleases God, and He takes account of it in His own way. He is entitled to! If He cannot speak of the assembly in the concrete, He will speak of it in the abstract; He will, if there is one overcomer in the place. God will speak of things in relation to that person! So much is the thought of ownership in His mind, that whatever the kind of property it may be, He will not relinquish it. If there is one in any sense an overcomer, God will stand by him; He will come to him where he is. God loves His people, He loves His property, He asserts His right to it and He comes to look after it. Can we deny Him? Can we forbid Him? Can anyone keep Him away? The apostle had to bring out what kind of property there was in Corinth and he called it by this most dignified name, and then God works through him to bring every member into accord with His mind. That is what the two epistles are for. That is what God is doing; let not anyone think otherwise, for as christians we are bound to come round to the truth applying to God's property, and, if there be only one overcomer, God will stand by him, as I said, and He will carry out His mind in relation to that overcomer (see John 14:21 - 23).

Now in the verse read in chapter 11, you will observe that the apostle comes back again to the idea of parties; he had spoken of that at the beginning, those who were saying, "I am of Paul, and ... I of Apollos", and so on. He spoke of it in that way, but now he goes back to it as about to open up the subject of the Lord's supper. You can see, dear brethren, as you think of what was in the Lord's heart, that He had to do with every word of this epistle, every letter of it, and when he comes to chapter 11, think of what was in the Lord's heart! Let us try to get alongside of Him -- think of what was in His heart. He is taking up what He had in Corinth;

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what treasure there was and what He would get out of it; and He speaks through the apostle Paul of something about which He could not praise them. There may be that, but He is not turning aside because of it. He is going to remove what He does not like; but think of what was in His heart when those words were penned! He says, "When ye come together in assembly" -- one of the finest phrases you can get. The Lord had referred to it as "My assembly", and now He is dealing with it, penning a letter to it; it is a letter of love, beloved brethren, but it is the faithfulness of love. The apostle says, "When ye come therefore together into one place, it is not to eat the Lord's supper". He does not go so far as to deny that the Lord's supper was there, he is condemning their conduct as gathered professedly to eat of it. He is lingering there, and holding to the thought abstractly, with a view to the full recovery of the Supper in its proper setting and import among them, and there can be no doubt that his faithful letter effected this.

You can understand how the apostle felt. He says, "when ye come together" there are "divisions among you"; meaning that there was cleavage, yea, even "sects among you"; implying formulated religious parties. What was all this for? Was God doing this? No, but He was allowing it, in order to bring out "the approved ... among you". The Lord knew well enough that there were lovers of Him at Corinth, there were many of them weeping no doubt at the way things went on, distressed because of these evil conditions; they loved the Lord and He knew it, and He wrought to bring to light who they were: the approved are thus brought into evidence, "that the approved may become manifest among you", says the apostle. Mark how he says, "among you"! It is all to emphasise what is in the place. In view of all this I would inquire, How am I to find out conditions in Corinth? How am I to find out conditions here in this city? I must come here!

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The Lord comes here, and the approved are made manifest among you. I have to come here. Letters help and, of course, may be useful, but I have to come here. Now let us bow to it; I am not criticising any one, I am setting out the truth. I can now see this clearer than I ever saw it. A local setting is a local setting; the Lord comes to the local setting, and if I am now to know, I must come to it; there I find out what is "among you".

I come now to the second letter. I cannot go into details, but what joy in heaven there was, and Paul reflects it, when the effect of the first letter was known. We learn from Luke 15 of the joy in the presence of the angels of God. What a time it was in heaven when Corinth was restored! Yes, beloved, and what a time it will be in heaven tonight as full assembly status, in so far as it may be realised now, is restored in this city. You see that is the idea; heaven is interested in all this, and every lover of Christ here normally is interested in it. Is there one present who is not interested in it? In the apostle's second letter he opens up his heart and tells them how he felt when Titus told him of the restored conditions at Corinth. In fact, he was so concerned that, when the Lord had opened up a work to him in Troas, he says as it were, I am so concerned about Corinth that I have no rest in my spirit; and he came away to Macedonia. So the Lord's people are concerned about this city. Are these reflections of heaven nothing to us? These exercises of the saints are but reflections of the concern in heaven that things should be right. Why should they not be right?

The apostle Paul wrote his letter having in mind that there were elements in Corinth that he could work upon, and he also sent Timothy there. Is Paul intermeddling? Is Timothy intermeddling? No, beloved, they were engaged in the work of God. They were righteously concerned about the work of God in Corinth; these men were used of God to bring about recovery,

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and Titus told the apostle of this recovery. Paul is full of encouragement, abounding in joy because of these tidings of the Corinthians, as he tells us in the second letter, and so, in the verse I read he says, "in every way ye have proved yourselves to be pure in the matter". He says this after having gone over the list of things that marked them. I do not think that they were clear in every matter, but they were certainly clear as to the gross sinfulness that he brought to their attention, and I believe that they were exercised about every evil condition in the assembly. They were not all clear; there was one at least who was saying of Paul that "his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible". There were ministers of Satan there also, but if the brethren, in the main, are clear in the matter, the apostle exults over that.

Well now, I trust that the brethren will bear with me, as I seek to set out the truth as to these things. The enemy is seeking in these last days to divide us in a general way, but the Lord has preserved us wonderfully for a long period. The Lord has done it, but He is allowing one local eruption after another to happen, and it is to bring out just where we are spiritually. In each case He tests us as to what we can do as to it. The Lord allows these things, and so, dear brethren, if conditions arise among us that disturb heaven, as it were, that cause grief up there, and cause grief in those that are spiritual down here, what is to be done? First of all, are there any approved in the place where the sorrow is? The verse in chapter 11 says, "that the approved may become manifest among you". There is no doubt that they will be; if there is only one, he will become manifest. And then, as approved, are they clear in the matter? That is the second letter. Are the brethren clear? Are there any clear? Is there one or two or ten or a dozen, or twenty or forty? I think heaven likes these countings, you know. One does not hesitate to count in these matters. A righteous man is of great

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value in heaven. If there is one righteous man in this city, God is intent on delivering that man, and making all that He can out of him.

In the conversation between Jehovah and Abraham as to Sodom, the question of the number of righteous persons there arose: Are there fifty, or forty, or thirty, or twenty, or ten? Abraham did not go any lower. What I am speaking of, dear brethren, is the value of a righteous man. If there are those who are clear in the matter, who are approved of God, well, there is assembly status. I am not seeking to force anything on any one here. God forbid! I am presenting what is manifestly the truth. Whatever we may have thought we must now begin to see that heaven recognises the effect of the work of God; heaven knows it and makes it known, and if they have cleared themselves in detail, they are all the more commendable.

There is only one thing left under this heading, and this the verse in Acts 11 shows, that, as the work of God comes to light it is normally fully owned by His people. That God is greater than any number of saints, we must all admit, but the ground Peter takes shows this: "If then God has given them the same gift as also to us when we had believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who indeed was I to be able to forbid God?" The Holy Spirit was given to those gentiles as He was given to the disciples; that is, there was a common platform between Peter, and Cornelius and his company. Thus it is today, that in any place, if there are those approved, who are following righteousness, their level is the same as ours. It is a question of right, of their state. "Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have right to the tree of life, and that they should go in by the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14); and again, "Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in", Isaiah 26:2. God honours what is right, but in what we do full testimony is needed, and hence Peter says, "there went with me these six

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brethren also". Judaism again comes into evidence; those of the circumcision at Jerusalem were quick to oppose, but Peter brings forward a full testimony to what God was doing.

Paul in his communications to Corinth lays down this same principle as to testimony, saying, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every matter be established". How much they needed it there! So many things were hidden; he sees the importance of witnesses, and if you have witnesses the thing is established, it is fixed. Peter has double three, he is thus showing his great caution, and, when he saw the Spirit coming down on these very people, he says, "Can any man forbid water?" That was baptism. There are two ordinances in christianity; the first is baptism -- that is the one Peter is dealing with -- and the other is the Lord's supper. Who can forbid it to righteous people? No one, for as believers are following righteousness it belongs to them. At Jerusalem, "they of the circumcision contended with him", and so Peter goes over the ground. It was important. It was a fine piece of work at Caesarea, one of the finest he could get, and I have no doubt he had great pleasure in going over the ground. The triumphant result was that they glorified God after they heard it, and surely, dear brethren, it would be a suitable end to all the sorrow that has been experienced in this city, that God is glorified.

Now, in stressing the local side, I would in no wise weaken the general side because, in truth, there is only one fellowship; it works out locally, but it is one fellowship. The apostle refers to this in the first epistle saying, "God is faithful, by whom ye have been called into the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord". One fellowship, so that the epistle is addressed "to the assembly of God which is in Corinth ... with all that in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both theirs and ours". This includes every one of us

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here tonight from different countries and different cities in this country, "both theirs and ours". There is nothing less than that, and it works out locally, but it has a general aspect, and hence Deuteronomy 21 has had a great place amongst us, and God has blessed it in these matters. Indeed, it is intended for these matters; it is intended of God, to bring out the city that is in proximity to a sorrowful condition that is public; to an evil arising among us.

If evil arises, it will be observed simply and briefly that the passage places the initiative in the hands of the judges and elders of Israel, not any local company. I am speaking of the initiative now, the judges and elders go forth, and they have to measure. The man is in the field, remember, he is not in the city; he is lying out in the field. The Spirit of God tells us that. Someone has committed murder, but it is not known who is guilty; the guilt is there, and the nearest city has to clear itself; that is the point. Those in the nearest city are not clear in the matter, they have to clear themselves, and they are told what to do; they are told to take a heifer -- which, I apprehend, refers to love. What has been done -- the murder -- is the very opposite to love; but the heifer, I believe, refers to ardent love. Someone has committed the murder; the man is dead out in the field; and whoever has done it, it is due to the absence of love, and the nearest city has to acknowledge that. Has love been active in me? They bring the heifer down to a valley which had not been sown, or a watercourse, as in the New Translation; that is going back to first principles, or conditions, with which man has had nothing to do.

First appears the man as slain in the field, then there is the heifer that has not been wrought with, and whose neck is then broken. The heifer is not guilty, but she is an expiation, a sacrifice -- a type of Christ. Think of how it affects the Lord! Murder is the very opposite to Christ. There is the dead man in the field, heaven

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thinks of that, and the nearest city has to clear itself as to that, and it is told how to do it. And then we are told that the priests, the sons of Levi, come near. We have come here tonight, some of us, not that we assume to be anything, but you know every christian is a priest. When you have priesthood specially stressed, it refers to spirituality, not only that you have the Spirit, but that you are spiritual -- "Ye who are spiritual" -- they come there. How can we know what is in this city if we do not come?

Well now, the priests come near, and then, we are told, as also elsewhere, that they "bless in the name of the Lord". A spiritual man blesses in the name of the Lord; he thinks of God and he worships God; until one can think for God he cannot have anything to say to these things; and then it says, "according to their word shall be every controversy and every stroke" -- it is by their word. There is not a word said as to the nearest city determining anything. The priests determine the thing and then the elders of the nearest city go forward after we have the priesthood established. I beg of you dear brethren, to bear with me, as I seek to set out the truth, a truth that I do not believe is known much amongst us. It is a question of what is priestly. The elders of the nearest city go forward, they come near and they wash their hands over the heifer, whose neck is broken in the watercourse; it is a question of the working of the head, or man's mind, in the things contemplated. Then they speak as priests to Jehovah; they are identified with the sacrifice, they are in principle eating the sin offering, taking it home to themselves. I am not clear of the matter unless I take it home to myself. And then as accepting responsibility for the sin that was near to them and which was expiated by the death of the heifer, they speak to Jehovah for Israel, they beg of Jehovah to forgive Israel. The saints universally gladly leave such matters to the nearest local company, if the priesthood in the true

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sense be there, there being thus intelligence and power to deal with the difficulty. If the priesthood be not there characteristically, the application of the type to the nearest city fails, but thank God, the priests exist, they are not treated as local merely, they are universal and they are obligated in the matter. Although the priesthood in the city actually nearest to the dead man may fail, the idea of proximity must not be ignored, so a meeting or meetings relatively near have a special responsibility and rightly act in the light of the type in Deuteronomy 21. It is now a question of obligation resting upon the priesthood as represented in the city in proximity, to extend fellowship to their brethren, recognising their right to go forward. They are obligated to do so, and if they do not do it they are remiss, and heaven will so regard them.

Well, there is only one word more; it might be said that a meeting has become so bad that brethren may have to come and break it down, as it were. A great principle was worked out in this very county about twenty-seven years ago, and we do not want to miss the gain of that. Can any nearby gathering, such as existed then, undertake to break down, to disallow, to set aside another assembly? Scripture does not contemplate it; that is what the Lord would make plain; and it is not contemplated now! Leviticus 14 says nothing at all about the nearest city; there the priest is brought forward right through. The priest goes and he examines the stones -- he does or directs everything. God is God -- He has His priests and He will carry out His mind through them. The nearest city, of course, has to clear itself; it has to keep its own borders clear. The scripture implies that each of us has to be concerned in such matters, and each assembly is to see that its own sphere of administrative authority is clear, but outside of that it has no authority, that I see. The priests are the priests of Jehovah, and they are universal in their bearing, so that in this chapter it is entirely a question of priesthood.

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Proximity is fully maintained in Deuteronomy 21, and if the nearest meeting is priestly in character, the brethren will be thankful and will under God leave the matter in their hands, praying for them as they without bias seek to serve their neighbouring brethren, but, as I said before, it is the priest throughout in Leviticus 14.

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PRIESTLY SERVICE WITH REGARD TO THE ASSEMBLY AS CONVENED

Deuteronomy 10:6,7; Hebrews 7:26; Hebrews 8:1,2

Ques. Does the covenant furnish a background to priestly service?

J.T. It does. It is a question of love existing, so to speak in volume, that is, God from the divine side. The priestly order is to bring about a state of things amongst the people of God, a state of liberty, a state of joy. God showed it to be His mind and heart for His people as having brought them to Himself. Exodus 20 speaks of the thousands of those that love Him, but then He proves in the covenant that He was worth loving, that "We love because he has first loved us", 1 John 4:19. Then Exodus 21 brings in the Hebrew servant, the type of Christ in extreme lowliness in bondman form, and the basis of love in those circumstances. He says, "I love my master, my wife, and my children, I will not go free" (verse 5). That is ascending love, horizontal love, and descending love, and plenty of it, as you might say, although in one in bondman form, in conditions that did not tend to promote it. There were limited conditions, but there would be love there in one Person ascending, and moving out, and coming down. It is the "length and depth and height" of that love -- quantity, so to speak. I think that is the basis, in a practical way, of the exercise of priesthood -- one who says that he loved his master and wife and children and would not go out free but stays there for ever on the principle of love. Because of love, He would stay there for ever. And then that same Person in another type is seen in an ennobled way in Aaron -- the same Person. The Hebrew servant is a type of Christ, and Aaron is a type of Christ in a very exalted way. He is the brother of the mediator, a man with a history, a man known to God for years back. So in Exodus 28, you have Christ, not as a bondman but as a noble

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exalted Personage with all the habiliments of dignity and glory, Priest unto God. These two types, converging as they do, bring us to the exercise of priesthood in a dignified way. "That he may serve me as priest", not as a slave, but in the priest's office, but then we have the basis of love to witness to it. That, I think, is properly introductory to the service of priesthood in the assembly. When we come to Moses' account of things in Deuteronomy, it is looking back, for Deuteronomy is retrospective, written after things had intruded, when things had been known by experience. At the second giving of the law Jehovah, when Moses had prayed to Him in the mount, told him to hew out the stones himself and to make the ark of wood himself; when all this was effected, these two verses are brought into the history, happening, as they did, about forty years, or twenty-five years, or eight years after, but they are brought in not because of any historical connection but in a moral connection, for you have a state of things where God hands over things to a man who is at liberty to hew stones and make the ark, and who does it all. God has a man now that is entirely trustworthy; as a matter of fact, Moses had become a wonderful type of Christ. He offers to die for the people at that time that they should not be wiped out or destroyed. So we have Moses himself representing Christ in the way of sacrifice. He would rather be blotted out of God's book than that they should be blotted out, and he fell down forty days and nights before Jehovah. So God gives him the opportunity to hew out the stones and make the ark, which he does. And then this remarkable link is brought in, that Aaron dies and another priest comes in; that is to say, we have a change of priesthood -- a change of law -- Eleazar is now the priest, and that is the side we ought to get on to -- what Eleazar means or represents.

Rem. What you have been saying fits in with the scripture we read in Hebrews.

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J.T. That is right -- "For such a high priest became us". The saints are viewed now in their exalted status.

Ques. Does "Hew for thyself two tables of stone like the first" (Deuteronomy 10:1), refer to the people of God as a new generation in which all this is going to be effected?

J.T. That is right; it is writing material, impressionable material.

W.B-w. What is your thought in referring to the Hebrew servant and Aaron? Is it the idea of seeing them set forth in Christ personally first before bringing in the saints?

J.T. Yes, quite so. How wonderful to see the greatness of the Priest, because a priest marks off the people -- "such a high priest became us". You are not inferior -- not that we need Him personally, but the dignity of the saints requires such a great Person, and that brings us on to an entirely new level.

C.A.M. So the change of priesthood seems to be very wonderful in that way. I suppose it would be right to say that the whole system is according to the Priest. If we took any system and knew the priest of it, we would have an idea of what kind of thing it was.

J.T. That is right. Hebrews brings out the greatness of the priest, but it brings out also the greatness of the people "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling", Hebrews 3:1.

A.F.M. What is the idea of the second verse we read in Deuteronomy, "From thence they journeyed unto Gudgodah; and from Gudgodah to Jotbathah, a land of water-brooks"? Is there something in that?

J.T. Yes, that is a great thing -- a land of water-brooks. That is where we want to get, where there is plenty of power and refreshment. The land of waterbrooks corresponds to the land of Canaan. It is that kind of land. They had reached it, you will observe. Aaron dies and is buried there, and Eleazar, his son,

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exercises the priesthood. It is not simply that he received it but he exercised it. The thing goes on; there is no lapse. When Aaron died, Eleazar exercised the priesthood, another priest who is to be associated with Joshua as Aaron was associated with Moses, but he is associated with Moses for a while, until Moses dies. Aaron and Moses die and authority and priesthood from the standpoint of personal support cease. We come into what is collective in Eleazar who exercised the priesthood in the stead of his father. "From thence they journeyed unto Gudgodah; and from Gudgodah to Jotbathah, a land of water-brooks". They journeyed. That is the way this is to be; the Spirit of God brings out that where you have these conditions, there is movement. A priest suited to this movement brings it in.

J. S. A land of waterbrooks indicates the spiritual resources of the place.

J.T. That is what we should have before us in coming together in assembly, that we reach a place of waterbrooks. It is very refreshing and sweet.

W. B -- w. In Numbers 3, it reads that Eleazar and Ithamar exercised the priesthood in the presence of Aaron their father; in Deuteronomy, Aaron dies, and Eleazar takes it up. What is the distinction?

J.T. Well, Eleazar is high priest now. He could not be that while his father lived. He represents an element of our relations in the church. Whilst his father lived, he is a spiritual element amongst the saints, but that element increases when his father dies, just as Joshua in a military way increases. We see him in a little way in Exodus 17, but he increases. I think he, with Eleazar, becomes a great leader. He is to take the people in and put them in possession of the land.

A.N.W. Are you viewing Eleazar in verse 6 as another type of Christ or as one of Aaron's sons?

J.T. It is Christ in another way.

J.S. Would you say that in Exodus 21 the Hebrew

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servant and Aaron merge so that we have the spiritual result in Eleazar?

J.T. I think so. It is only to get the mind fixed because the Holy Spirit teaches us in our minds. Thus He links the thing up. So if you get the Hebrew servant in your mind, you see the element of love is there even in limited circumstances, in the circumstances of a slave.

W. B -- w. In Numbers, Eleazar and Ithamar represent the saints more; whereas in Deuteronomy, Eleazar represents Christ.

J.T. He does; when his father dies.

A.F.M. Would you say how far Aaron takes us? We have Moses and Aaron, and then they go and we have Eleazar and Joshua.

J.T. We have leaders in the New Testament. Moses and Aaron run together in Romans and Corinthians; that is, the authority in the Lord runs on to Jordan. The priesthood of Aaron runs on to Mount Horeb before we come on to Romans 8, which is the springing well, but the authority of the Lord runs through.

A.R.S. Why did the priesthood of Aaron run short of bringing them into the land? Is that because of the breakdown?

J.T. It is not so much that. The breakdown in Deuteronomy is because of the people, not because of Moses. The breakdown in Aaron and Moses is not mentioned. It is because of the people in Deuteronomy -- "Also Jehovah was angry with me on your account" (Deuteronomy 1:37). It was because of them; therefore it is governmental, but then you can see that it is overruled and fits into the divine economy. Authority will never take you into heaven; it will never take you into the land. It is spiritual power that is needed there. Aaron stands more for what is external; whereas, Eleazar is more Christ viewed as the spiritual Leader. It is a spiritual thing.

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Rem. You expect to go on with Eleazar beyond the point of Moses. Eleazar enters into the land.

J.T. Moses goes a little further. He goes to Mount Pisgah, but Aaron dies at Mount Horeb. That element stops. Of course, you have the Spirit immediately after Aaron dies, but not the Spirit as you see Him in Exodus 17, but the Spirit as a springing well recognised by the people.

Ques. And then Eleazar goes beyond the death of Moses, too. You are coming to that later on?

J.T. Yes; he goes on and takes them in under Joshua, but bear in mind this is all Christ, whether in Moses, Aaron, Eleazar or Joshua; only Moses and Aaron are Christ in authority and external support, whereas Joshua and Eleazar represent an inward thing.

C.A.M. I think that greatly helps. The priesthood seems to have two functions, one in connection with a need and the other toward God. In connection with this change in the priesthood, is it right to feel that this matter of compassion and need really comes to an end in the saints, and there is a spiritual power that gives the priesthood a greatness it never had before?

J.T. That is right. If it were possible for any of us to be carried into the eternal state of things, we would understand all this very simply because we should see there is no Aaron, for there is no need of anyone being touched with the feelings of our infirmities. We have none. We have no sin to deal with. There is no need of the priest in compassion, but there is need for spiritual power there, and that spiritual power is God's.

Ques. Do you connect Eleazar and the idea of a new generation in Numbers with our thinking on spiritual lines?

J.T. That is right. The new generation comes in early after Numbers 11 after Kadesh, and they are the ones that go in, and Eleazar and Joshua are the ones that take them in.

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Rem. They are numbered later on.

J.T. Yes.

A.F.M. Is the priesthood to be viewed as passing into the eternal state or is it in connection with a provisional order of things?

J.T. The priesthood of Aaron is external, and in a certain sense, Joshua and Eleazar drop it; that is, the thing gradually diminishes. The more we get into the presence of God, the more the external order of things wanes; there is no need for it.

A.N.W. The priesthood diminished, you mean?

J.T. Yes, where there is nothing inferior and no sin and where all is perfect, we do not need a priest. The Person is there in whom they are set forth, but then they are not in evidence. You are there in such power yourself.

A.F.M. How do you connect these thoughts with "We have such a one high priest", Hebrews 8:1? There is the provision of the Priest, the Minister of the tabernacle which the Lord has pitched and not man.

J.T. That brings us on. We are on our feet now, and we are going to serve God. It is a wonderful thing that we can so regard Him in that He has us to serve Him.

A.R.S. Do the sons of the new generation correspond to the saints of the present time?

J.T. They correspond with you, with all that attaches to you as a man of flesh. That correctly disappears. You become unconscious of it in spiritual power. This is not recognised, it is not so easy for all of us to follow, but it is a most important thing if we are to act on assembly lines. The Jordan means the complete ending of all flesh and blood conditions. "I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago, (whether in the body I know not, or out of the body I know not. God knows;) such a one caught up to the third heaven", 2 Corinthians 12:2. He was there.

A.R.S. Is that new ground?

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J.T. Well, it is -- "if any one be in Christ, there is a new creation", 2 Corinthians 5:17.

A.R. We have to learn not only to come under Joshua but under Eleazar.

J.T. Just so. Joshua is the military leader, where it is a question of power; Eleazar is a more refined thought.

W. B -- w. In the last chapter you get both the death of Eleazar and Joshua. Would they carry us only a certain distance?

J.T. That is right. The thing becomes attenuated the further you go. You are not needing it; you are there in power yourself.

C.A.M. That greatly helps. The nearer I am to God, the less actual the division of things. There is hardly anything about eternal things to be found out.

J.T. It is taken on trust. They are to be found out -- "Things which eye has not seen, and ear not heard, and which have not come into man's heart, which God has prepared for them that love him", 1 Corinthians 2:9.

F.H.L. Do you think a term such as "priest" disappears in Aaron or in Eleazar? I suppose the thought of love carries through as in the Person of Christ Himself. I was thinking of your quotation -- "rooted and founded in love". That carries on through.

J.T. That is right. The love of Christ remains; indeed, all the fulness of God remains. There is no need. You are sustained there in spiritual power. It is a question in Ephesians 3 of the Father's Spirit in the heart, the inner man, that you may be fully able to apprehend with all saints. "For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named, in order that he may give you according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man; that the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts, being rooted and founded in love, in order that ye may be fully able to apprehend with all

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the saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height", Ephesians 3:14 - 18. That is the idea. It is not the support of the priest; it is love, it is the Father's Spirit in the inner man making us powerful.

A.R.S. I suppose the nearest that the children of Israel ever got was under Solomon?

J.T. Exactly. If you just eliminate the years that elapsed between Joshua and Eleazar and David and Solomon, you get a clear view of it; and we are entitled to do that because these verses in Deuteronomy 10 eliminate forty years and bring the two things together. We are entitled to do that because David and Solomon are the final thought -- "Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance" (Exodus 15:17), takes in David and Solomon.

J.E.H. In that connection it was said the priests were not able to minister.

J.T. Yes; when you come to Solomon, there is power there for them.

Ques. Does the priestly service cease in time?

J.T. I think it does. God says, I want this whole scene for myself.

A.F.M. Where God shall be all in all.

J.T. Yes; that is the thought.

Ques. At what point of time was the Aaronic state established? Was it when they were actually anointed?

J.T. We have different accounts of that. What is to be observed is that the first proposal is the priesthood; so that we are all to be priests. That is a thing to be noticed. God has not given up that thought. We are all to be priests. It is a nation of priests, He says. Subsequently one person is taken up, but the divine mind was that we are all to be priests, and as a matter of fact, all christians are priests; the divine thought is "a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Jesus Christ", 1 Peter 2:5.

A.R.S. I understand about our all being priests in this dispensation, but in the past dispensation it was

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generally the tribe of Levi, and nobody could be a priest unless he belonged to that tribe.

J.T. These subsequent developments are to bring out other things. God has given out that you are all to be priests. He has not given that up. Then He wants to show what the thing really means, and for that He brings up Aaron, the brother of the mediator. And then the next thing is that the family of Levi is taken up. "At that time Jehovah separated the tribe of Levi, to bear the ark of the covenant of Jehovah, to stand before Jehovah to do service unto him, and to bless in his name, unto this day. Therefore Levi has no portion nor inheritance with his brethren; Jehovah is his inheritance, according as Jehovah thy God told him", Deuteronomy 10:8,9. Now Christ as the High Priest is depicted in Aaron. He is a great personage and they anoint him, but then you have a family as well as priests, because in Deuteronomy and Joshua, the Levites are all priests. It is a family of priests, and everyone of them is a son, a first-born; that is another thing. These features are to bring out other things. They are to bring out the greatness of the priestly family, and the greatness of Christ as their High Priest.

Ques. Do you not think that this anointing of Aaron and his sons occurred very early because it was evidently soon after the anointing of the tabernacle? Does the idea of the priesthood not come in to the thought of the Supper in its early setting?

J.T. It does. We need Aaron as such. Everyone does as he leaves his house to come to the assembly. He needs the support of Christ. We have children to look after, and that causes anxiety and worry and irritation and we need Christ in that aspect; as we sit down together, we need Him, and then alongside of that, you have the authority of Moses because it is the Lord's supper, the dominical sphere.

Ques. What about the eating? Is that priestly, more?

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J.T. You mean the Supper?

Ques. Yes; according to Matthew, the thought is eating; in Leviticus 8, the thought is eating. Is it appropriation of Christ in the Supper, more what we do in a priestly way?

J.T. Well, it is. It supports us, for it strengthens us. Matthew and Mark would give that side. We are supported -- "This is my body" -- not 'This is my flesh', but my body. We are supported by that food. It is a collective idea. It is food that nourishes us but it is a collective idea, that we know how to be among the saints. It is not food for life, but food for the assembly, to give you a constitution to take a place among the brethren so that you might be able to sit down quietly and silently in power, as appropriating the body as food, "Take, eat: this is my body", Matthew 26:26. That gives you a constitution to be in the assembly in power as of the body. You grasp the whole thought of God and you take account of the saints sitting by you as making up the whole; you are sitting with them.

Ques. That would be Matthew's presentation of the Supper?

J.T. Yes, Matthew and Mark both say, "Take, eat".

C.A.M. I should like to refer to something you said about Leviticus 8. It appeals to me that what we have in view is something that is going to broaden out and fill the whole universe.

J.T. Yes; the tabernacle means that. It was the figure of the universe. It was anointed and Aaron was anointed in relation to that.

C.A.M. It is difficult, otherwise, to bring the calendar into Leviticus 8.

Ques. Does not Leviticus 8 really precede the other offerings?

J.T. Oh, yes; you have not got the priest. It is after the offerings are finished that you get the priesthood

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anointed, but then they are seen as officiating before that in chapter 1.

Rem. You could not have authority unless that were established.

J.T. That is right; the chapter morally comes in first. The offerings, of course, were to furnish the priests and build them up so that they were fit to be anointed.

W. B -- w. The idea of eating and drinking gives you a spiritual constitution. Does that bring you under Joshua and Eleazar now?

J.T. We must not bring in a calendar because properly this leads us into eternity. Time enters into it at the beginning because it is the first day of the week, and "When the hour was come", Luke 22:14. Time has to do with it, but it is to eternity. God begins with time. He graciously comes into time. God came out from eternity into time to lead us out from time into eternity.

C.A.M. The line of the hymn 'Eternity's begun' (Hymn 94) has a meaning only with regard to us.

J.T. Not as regards Himself.

Ques. Is the thought of the sanctuary on the way to eternity?

J.T. Yes; the calendar is quite right and very important. It is right to be on time and not be late at the Lord's supper -- to be there in time, and to be there in subjection, suited to it as well. The official priesthood of Aaron and the authority of Moses are needed in all that. But eating of "my body" is to give you a constitution for the collective position, that I may have my place collectively and know how to sit with my brethren. I must have power to do that. I believe that is what the food in Matthew and Mark is for. David built inward: it does not say how far. The suggestion is unto God. John's gospel leads in that direction, particularly in regard to the assembly.

W. B -- w. Do you make a distinction between the assembly in the wilderness, and the assembly over

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Jordan? -- would the assembly in the wilderness be the provisional side, and over Jordan the eternal setting?

J.T. That is right.

W. B -- w. Is the priesthood principally connected with the assembly in the wilderness?

J.T. That is right. "This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness", Acts 7:38. We have to learn Christ in that way. We have to learn Him in the land, too, which is Colossians. That is another position. In Ephesians, God has "raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus", Ephesians 2:6.

W. B -- w. In the assembly in the wilderness, is it largely a measure of approach? In the land, you are set. You are not approaching; you are before God. Is that a different idea?

J.T. The thought of approach is in Ephesians, too. In Hebrews it is, "Having therefore, brethren, boldness for entering into the holy of holies by the blood of Jesus, the new and living way which he has dedicated for us through the veil, that is, his flesh, and having a great priest over the house of God, let us approach with a true heart, in full assurance of faith, sprinkled as to our hearts from a wicked conscience, and washed as to our body with pure water", Hebrews 10:19 - 22. You can see the force of that as applying in the wilderness setting; but in Ephesians, "For through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father" (Ephesians 2:18); we have no blood, no washing, and no high priest. It is through Him -- through Christ.

W. B -- w. Before that it says, "but now in Christ Jesus ye who once were afar off are become nigh by the blood of the Christ", Ephesians 2:13.

J.T. You go back to the high priest there.

J.T.Jr. Would that fit in with the tribe of Levi here that stands before Jehovah?

J.T. Yes; the whole family in that way are drawn

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near; they are there to bless; they are standing before Him.

A.N.W. Are both these movements upward -- to do service to Jehovah and to bless in His name?

J.T. I suppose blessing in His name is a general thought. They are like God.

A.R.S. With regard to what you said as to sitting down in power in the assembly, does that precede drawing near?

J.T. I think so. We draw near as together.

A.R.S. We ought to come together in power. Is that the idea?

J.T. Yes, and then we move upward, which is a question of the power that is within us. If there are a few spiritual brothers and sisters present, they will get the wave of power, and everybody in the assembly will be affected by it. I think God loves to spread out. So here the whole tribe of Levi is brought in. In Numbers 4 when they are presented to Jehovah, He stipulates they are reserved from thirty to fifty; but when they are presented in chapters 8 and 9, He lowers the age to twenty-five. God loves that kind of people, and He would increase the number. I believe that as there is power in a meeting, the number with us increases.

C.A.M. It seems to me in that connection that the matter of music, for instance Mr. Darby's hymns, has a definite place. If we were to have to express those ideas in praise, we would have the greatest difficulty, but there seems to be a place for such expression in hymns.

J.T. Quite so. As regards the inward movement, if we eat the body, if we appropriate the body of Christ, we get the idea of the whole thought. The whole assembly comes into your mind; it is great enough for it to be included in your mind, and you say, I would not wish to go without them all. You want to get them all. Of course, we may have to say, "all Israel present"; but still you want all Israel, and so you get in Ephesians

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"has raised us up together". All the saints come up together. There is no such thought as individuals going up by themselves. They should find an answer in the assembly. It is moving together.

A.R. There is no such thing as a broken idea, even in connection with the two and a half tribes that would have stayed on the east of Jordan.

J.T. Just so. You might say, The two and a half tribes did not go in; the nine and a half had to go in by themselves: but the scripture is very particular about that. They did go in, forty thousand of them, and they had their names there in Gilgal like the rest. There were twelve stones set up in Gilgal.

Ques. Do you think there was a great deal to be adjusted in Luke 24, that the Lord was adjusting it on the line of His priestly service, bringing them into accord?

J.T. That is right. He was getting them all together. It was priestly service to get them all together.

C.A.M. And in John 20, eternity has begun with Mary.

J.T. That is the thought. John 20 is particularly inward; Luke 24 is external. There it is the assembly gathering, but you do not have gathering in John 20. It is "where the disciples were", that is, the persons; the further on you go, the more you see the greatness of the persons.

A.F.M. I should like to ask where you would place the Lord Himself. If we have our movements upward to God, what particular place does the Lord occupy with regard to us; for instance, we have in Ephesians, "For through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father", Ephesians 2:18?

J.T. It is the instrumentality of it. I think Hebrews comes in too. We have, first of all, "such a high priest became us, holy, harmless, undefiled, separated from sinners, and become higher than the heavens". That guarantees that He can lead us, He can take us up in the

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Spirit now -- in the body, presently. Then it says, "Now a summary of the things of which we are speaking is, We have such a one high priest who has sat down on the right hand of the throne of the greatness in the heavens; minister of the holy places and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord has pitched, and not man". Such a summary would always go back to chapter 2. We have Him now; He became us. We have Him now, and we appropriate Him as active in the assembly. He is the Minister. He is available for us. He is on our side, and we appropriate Him; and in that way, I think, there is room to lead us. As I appropriate Him, it means I want to go on in the service. I want to enter in to the Father, and He is there and acts for us.

W. B -- w. Does the first verse of chapter 8 refer to Him where He is and the greatness that He has on the throne and the second verse to Him in the tabernacle as Minister down here?

J.T. Quite; the first is just to bring out His greatness; He is available to us here, but then the tabernacle is not a material one, it is spiritual. It is an entirely spiritual environment now, and hence we are to be spiritual.

F.H.L. How far does the apostle John go in referring to the kingdom?

J.T. That does not go so far as this. It is the kingdom there. You understand how it fits into Revelation, where you do not get what we are speaking of properly. What we are speaking of now is properly seen in substance in Colossians and Ephesians.

Rem. But still connected with the idea of priesthood and priestly service.

J.T. Yes, but the "minister of the holy places" is the great wide thought when the Lord takes on the service and is available to us for our part in it. He will take on Israel by and by, too, but He is available to us now.

A.F.M. Does that involve relationship in praise,

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like Hebrews 2:12 -- "I will declare thy name to my brethren; in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises"?

J.T. Certainly it would. When you hear a brother give out a hymn or give thanks in the spirit of adoption, the Lord is operating and you follow that line, that lead. It is the power that worketh in us; the thing is to follow that. So one can say "Abba Father" in the power of the spirit of adoption. The power of the Minister of the sanctuary is operating in that connection.

J.T.Jr. You do not want to disturb that.

A.N.W. Where would you place the Minister of the holy places and the true tabernacle?

J.T. I think it is a great general thought of Christ going on to the Father.

W.F.K. Do we need priestly service when we enter into sonship?

J.T. That is a question. You are still in flesh and blood condition and it is easy to lapse back into what is natural, but the power of abstraction is what is required, the spiritual power of abstraction.

Ques. Do you link the thought of the priesthood with the thought of the Father at all, the thought of going into the Father?

J.T. Yes; He is Son of God, you know. The spirit of adoption is "for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God", Romans 8:14. The power is in yourself; you are able to do it yourself. You do not get the priesthood mentioned at all in Ephesians -- not that the thing is not there of itself "For through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father", Ephesians 2:18.

Ques. How far does the thought of the sanctuary go? Does it come in in Eleazar's service in Canaan?

J.T. Well, the sanctuary will always be necessary. It is only mentioned because of the state we are in. It means that it is a holy place, which would not be

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necessary at all if sin did not exist. It will have no place in eternity where there is nothing amoral.

Ques. Does the thought of priestly service go beyond the thought of the sanctuary?

C.A.M. Would it be right to say that the priestly element has a reference peculiar to this earth?

J.T. I think so, always. It alludes to our position and state in flesh and blood that necessitates it.

A.P.T. With regard to John, if you had been there you would see that the idea of priesthood would have a very small place in your mind. You would see the Lord in all His dignity and how we are there with Him and ascend in His presence. Do not you think it is possible to get into that and enjoy it even now?

J.T. That is the point we are at. If only we can abstract ourselves in mind and affection to enter into the conditions of eternity, then we shall see what we are talking about. You do not need these things there. You do not need authority as expressed in Moses, or priesthood as expressed in Aaron. There is no sin, no wrong thought. You see you do not need them, and therefore as you see the thing in your own mind as He is there before you, you see what you are yourself and what the saints are. I think that is the way to get at it. If I could transfer myself to the eternal region then I could come back into the assembly and know what to do. That is the idea.

A.N.W. I want to ask whether John 20 fits in with Hebrews 2:11, "For both he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one; for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren". Does that not come very near John's gospel?

J.T. It does. Even John 20 and this passage in Hebrews 2 contemplate us as still here. The bulk of Scripture relates to what we are here, serving in our flesh and blood condition, but if we were to visit the eternal regions, we could see that what is necessary here is not necessary there, and the more you enter now

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into what is there, the less you are conscious of these provisional things.

W.B-w. Is it not important that we take new ground after the bread and wine and the collection box have been passed? I take new ground in my mind. Is that not a very important thing?

J.T. It is, that is the reason I am stressing it. The thing is to move out in our minds and affections; so that one has to be intelligent as to what governs the eternal position you are in.

W.B-w. To be practical, a brother will get up after the breaking of bread and speak to the Lord about His coming into this scene; whereas He is not in this scene at all.

J.T. Very few of us do take the new ground. That why we do not get on to the assembly. You have, for instance, one brother speaking about the Lord coming into this scene; another will give out a hymn about the Lord having been in it; another will give out a hymn to the Father, and another to the Lord; and so we are losing, we are missing the great end.

W.B-w. That is because the brethren are not intelligent about taking new ground in their minds.

Ques. Does that not show the importance of what we are talking about right now? When they went to the Mount of Olives, they could have been talking on the way a lot about the environment of Jerusalem, the hatred, etcetera, but priestly service at that time would free them and set their minds on what lay before them immediately.

J.T. Yes; I think that is right. The Lord helps us, but your mind is the thing. Romans 7 is "I myself with the mind". The mind is the great dominating thing the Lord has given us. Now the Lord says, 'The ground has changed'. It is well to stick to that.

C.A.M. "Come, see the place where the Lord lay". It is where the Lord lay. Beyond that everything is changed.

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J.T. Yes; you are to get into the company after that. In the company, I never lose sight of my mind -- "we have the mind of Christ". The mind seizes the position and holds to it, and the Holy Spirit supports us in it. That eliminates all this oscillation that we are speaking about. The mind stops all that; it is not suitable.

W.B-w. Colossians is, "Set your affection on things above", Colossians 3:2. It is an order of things above. It is not a wilderness setting of things. It is over Jordan.

J.T. That is right. You know what to do. The mind dictates what to do, and the Holy Spirit supports you. The mind takes in and grasps the thing, and the Holy Spirit supports you in it.

J.S. The Lord's message to Mary was, "I ascend".

J.T. That should regulate her mind and the message would regulate their minds.

A.R. Some refer to the emblems after the Supper.

J.T. The covenant love is in the Supper, and it is well to give it full scope because it sets us all free for family affection, that is to say, the affection we have for one another, for the Father, and for the Son. That is the next thing. Let our minds get in action and go with it, and the Holy Spirit will support us.

A.F.M. You would not hurry from the covenant love to the family side?

J.T. No; Matthew and Mark would rather keep you to it. The Lord spoke about it after they drank into the cup. The Lord would open up what it means.

J.S. Would a hymn be based on covenant love?

J.T. I think so. It fits in nicely.

Ques. Would speaking to divine Persons relative to the covenant and what follows be a priestly line?

J.T. Yes.

A.N.W. The covenant is a wonderful thing. We are to love God with all our minds.

J.T. That is a thing I do not believe one in a hundred

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thinks about. The renewed mind is a spiritual thing. Let it control.

Rem. The eyes of your heart would be the mind controlling the heart.

T.H. Is that why the two ran together? Peter and John went on running but they both arrived at the same end in speaking to God and the Father.

J.T. What you find there is their minds were at work. Mary's was not. She missed it. She had a great heart, and she had tears, but their minds led them. They took account of the handkerchief; they took account of the cloths, the way they were. Peter and John would say, Those cloths are just in the position that they were on the Lord's body; He could not have been stolen away. That is spiritual power. He got out of those cloths for they are undisturbed. Mary missed all that. It was their minds. They believed before she did.

Rem. It is very refined, "renewed in the spirit of your mind".

W.B-w. There is another point we passed by in connection with taking part after the Supper. Some think you should never refer to the Lord's death because it is a past thing.

J.T. You mean after the breaking of bread?

W.B-w. Yes, after the Supper. Some think you should not refer back to the Lord's death any more.

J.T. I think Matthew and Mark indicate that the Lord lingered over it. He told them after referring to the covenant -- not before. He told them what was meant, and I think it is an indication that we are to dwell on it, but then never to forget that the Father is in mind.

A.R.S. After you have gone on to the Father, you would not go back?

J.T. No.

J.S. There is an oscillation in going back.

J.T. I think the thought of dwelling on covenant

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love is before that, because you are dealing with a company.

A.N.W. Say a word about the two imperative necessities the Lord stresses in speaking to the woman -- "They who worship him must worship him in spirit and truth", John 4:24.

J.T. It is truth. Your spirit is free, you are not occupied with forms, although forms may have their place, but worship does not consist in that. The Colossians had the order but they were in danger, nevertheless. I think your remark comes in there -- "in spirit and truth". You have the spirit of things. Your spirit enters into that, and the spirit is all that enters into the worship of God. And then truth is the great regulating principle. I was speaking of the man that is abstracted. I believe it is meant to control us.

R.D.G. Do I understand that after we have partaken of the emblems, our minds are to be affected to catch the divine thought and carry it through?

J.T. I think so. If a brother speaks of the spirit of adoption, we want to take that up. The Lord is saying something in it.

J.S. The Lord would give the lead in some spiritual brother.

J.T. Yes, and if you bear in mind that all that goes on is in us.

A.F.M. We have had the thought of worship. The Lord does not worship but He praises, and we praise. Would you differentiate between those two thoughts as regards ourselves?

J.T. Well, I suppose you may. You are moving towards a person with great admiration and feeling. Well, praise does not go that far. Worship implies more action inwardly.

J.E.H. Is it praise not expressed?

J.T. Yes, the attitude of the mind as known to God.

Ques. In the Old Testament, the word "praise" comes in a great deal; for instance, "Praise Jehovah"

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in Psalm 146. Is worship primarily connected with this dispensation, do you think?

J.T. Oh, no. Sometimes it is used in a very general way, including praise. For instance, if one went to Jerusalem to worship, that was a general thought. They were just going to serve God. The word in the New Testament almost always means that I prostrate myself towards a person, not slavishly, but with affection and intelligence.

A.F.M. Used in the Old Testament, it means to bow down. "And I and the lad will go yonder and worship" (or 'bow down'), Genesis 22:5. Do you not think that in a hymn we might give out there would be the accompaniment of worship, too?

J.T. Surely. It is a question of the state of your mind. The Holy Spirit is the power that works in us. We are the musical instruments, so to speak. It is the state of your mind and heart. God sees the attitude of your heart. The word means you are toward Him.

C.A.M. It is a wonderful thing in that way that the more spiritual we become, the more personal everything is, the more wonderful the saints become as persons.

J.T. That is what John has in mind -- great nations, great persons.

Ques. What is the difference between worshipping the Lord and worshipping God?

J.T. Well, in worshipping the Father, you are worshipping God, but it is more the family touch.

G.H. Worship may be silent, but praise must be heard.

J.T. Quite so. And "God is a spirit" is another thing. It is a remarkable thing but angels are said to be spirits, too. Still He allows Himself to be called that. It is to control us so that we may not be material in our worship. To Whom am I speaking? I am speaking to a spirit. That challenges me. I can understand speaking to a man, but what about speaking to a spirit?

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Ques. When the Lord says "to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God" (John 20:17) is that not God as over all?

J.T. Yes. I think "my Father and your Father" is a family thought. "God" is God in Himself, more, although we are sons of God, too.

Ques. Is there not an aspect of God that goes into eternity in the idea of the covenant?

J.T. Oh, yes, but the covenant is just to assure us. It is on account of our weakness. We would have no need for it if it were not for that.

A.N.W. Does that idea of God go beyond the thought of Father? I mean the eternal aspect is going to be marked by God being all in all.

J.T. And "to him who is God and Father" (1 Corinthians 15:24); that Person is God, too. That helps.

Ques. In Revelation 21 it is sons of God. Is that eternal?

W.B-w. Is Father more a relative expression?

J.T. Well, so is God. What is there that isn't relative?

C.A.M. Is it not remarkable that the Lord put the word "my Father" before the word "my God"? We might have put it the other way.

J.T. Yes; I often think of that -- "my Father and your Father".

Ques. Is the thought in this dispensation the relation of sons to the Father?

J.T. Yes, you come to God, too; but "the Father seeks such as his worshippers" (John 4:23); that perhaps presents the most delightful thought.

J.S. God is a spirit, but the Father seeks such to worship Him.

W.B-w. "God is a spirit": is that relative or abstract?

J.T. It is relative. You could not apply it to God in an abstract sense. The word spirit is just "wind" or "breath". We have to be careful. You could not

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think of that being applied to God except in a relative sense. In John, He allowed Himself to be called that -- the actual word, I mean. What the word means is what He is, but then what do I know about what that means? I have to think of the substance of God, what He is essentially. The word "spirit" does not tell you that.

A.F.M. 1 Corinthians 8:6 is very wonderful to us christians in the light of all the revelation of God. "yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ".

J.T. How beautiful that is, "one God, the Father". He is not beyond us in that sense -- the Father.

W.B-w. Does "God" in Genesis 1 refer to what is relative or abstract?

J.T. No; there is nothing but what is relative. That means power. It is power of the Supreme One in view. And the first man that lived, like Adam, would say, 'Think of God'. He would help you to think of Him, and something would correspond in your mind with what He is -- Elohim. Somebody called Him that. It means that He is the all-powerful One. He is the all-supreme One. It must be relative. He is not supreme to Himself or to other Persons. He is supreme to us.

A.P.T. "He that draws near to God must believe that he is", Hebrews 11:6.

J.T. That is right.

G.H. God being all in all -- what does that mean?

J.T. That is what He is aiming at, everything that is in your heart and every heart in the universe. He is aiming at that through redemption.

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SONSHIP IN THE SAINTS

Galatians 3:25 - 29; Galatians 4:1 - 7; Romans 8:14 - 17; Ephesians 1:3 - 6

J.T. Sonship is a very wide subject in relation to service in the assembly and it seems that we should get the initial thought of it first. I suppose what is in mind is not sonship as seen in Christ especially but sonship as applied to the saints. The thought necessarily comes out in Christ. It is in Him that we see it fully. We see it in type in Isaac and in Joseph. We see it applied to the saints in type in the sons of Aaron, and we see it nationally applied to Israel in Exodus 4. These are allusions in the Old Testament that will help us in our subject, but it seemed to me that, in view of all understanding and following, the wisest course is to consider the subject as presented initially in Scripture. We have, so to speak, the doctrine of it in Galatians to bring out that it is a relation that belongs to the faith period properly, not to the period in which God's people are held under tutors and governors; that is, according to the law. We have the expression "faith having come". That is the period to which sonship belongs, so that it says in this chapter, "ye are all God's sons by faith in Christ Jesus". It is not a question of atonement or even state initially; it is a question of light.

Ques. Why do you think Paul brings in this subject initially in Galatians?

J.T. Well, he was dealing with christians that were going back to law, and he insists therefore on what they were giving up, pointing out what they were going back to, the infantile state, the nursery, as you might say; whereas christianity implies maturity. They are brought into the relation of sons, not only of children but "all sons".

W.B-w. Was there an attack being made by the enemy on the truth of sonship, according to Galatians?

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J.T. That is quite obvious. They were going back to law and giving up the principle that Christ had set them free.

W.B-w. It seems as if the enemy began very early to make the attack on that precious truth.

A.N.W. Ordinarily you would put Romans before Galatians?

J.T. Yes; Romans is clearly an initial epistle, but where the truth is being given up and is being corrected, you get it more emphatically in Galatians, I think. It is a corrective epistle. You get there more about sonship doctrinally than in any epistle.

Ques. The hymn used to read 'heavenly men by birth'. Is this verse in chapter 3 a correction of that? We are sons by faith.

J.T. Yes.

Rem. Explain the difference between the two. I think it would help a number here.

J.T. The only One that acquired sonship by birth was Christ "I this day have begotten thee", Psalm 2:7. We are sons by adoption. The idea of birth applies to children in Scripture, "As many as received him, to them gave he the right to be children of God, to those that believe on his name; who have been born, not of blood, nor of flesh's will, nor of man's will, but of God", John 1:12,13. Birth underlies that and gives us a place as children. That is generation. Sonship is adoption, so that Ephesians gives it fully -- "having marked us out beforehand for adoption" (that is sonship) "through Jesus Christ to himself".

A.F.M. The word 'adoption' can be generally rendered 'sonship', can it not? Does it not make it a little clearer to use the word 'sonship' instead of 'adoption'?

A.R.S. In the Old Testament it says, "Let my son go, that he may serve me", Exodus 4:23. Sonship there is connected with the servant; and then you have, "Wherefore come out from the midst of them, and be

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separated, saith the Lord, and touch not what is unclean, and I will receive you; and I will be to you for a Father, and ye shall be to me for sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty", 2 Corinthians 6:17,18. That is the covenant made with Israel, is it not? What we are going to go on to is something further than that. The son is intelligent as to the mind of the father.

J.T. That is what we should see this afternoon, what sonship is in christianity.

A.R.S. We have very little about sonship in the Old Testament.

J.T. What there is would be unintelligible to us did we not understand it in the New Testament. We have to read everything in the light of the New Testament. Galatians was expressly to bring out the truth of sonship, among other things, so that attention should be paid to it particularly, especially by young believers, as to how we come into it. We come into it on the principle of faith, and that is general. It applies to all believers. It does not depend on their state. It is not put as depending on their state. It is a question of the period in which we live as believers. Of course, there were believers under the old dispensation, too. There were always believers. This dispensation is one characterised by faith.

A.F.M. It would be necessary for us to receive that, in order to have the light of it. If it is the period of sonship, what would be presented to us so that we might be consciously sons?

J.T. I think it is presented in Christ; "Thou art my son" it says in the Psalms (Psalm 2:7), and in the gospels it is "This is my beloved son", Matthew 3:17. This is. He is here. It is no longer a prophetic announcement. It is an actual fact that He is here; and then again "Thou art my beloved son" (Mark 1:11), it is the person addressed.

A.R.S. Would it be right to say that while sonship is mentioned in the Old Testament it is not developed until you come to the New, after Christ comes?

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J.T. It begins with Him properly. The Old Testament is only typical of what began in Him. Everything begins with Christ.

J.E.H. Is that why it says in Exodus 4, "Let my son go", not my sons. Was Christ before the heart of God?

J.T. I think so; so "out of Egypt have I called my son", Matthew 2:15. It is applied to Christ in the New Testament.

Ques. Would it be possible for God to take account of us as sons, that is of a believer, without the believer understanding it himself?

J.T. I think so. He takes account of us all as sons as soon as I have faith. "Ye are all God's sons".

A.R.S. "Because ye are sons, God has sent out the Spirit of his Son".

C.A.M. In that way, the greatest thing that can be stated as fact or light is not dependent upon us in any way except that we are in the realm of faith.

J.T. Just so. As soon as I have faith, it applies to me. The Spirit is given according to chapter 4 because it applies to me, not that it should apply to me but because it already applied to me. The Spirit makes it conscious so that He cries "Abba, Father".

A.R. Is there any difference between Romans and Galatians? In Galatians the Spirit cries, and in Romans we cry.

J.T. There is. Romans is the normal thing. It contemplates that you understand that the Holy Spirit is to be used in that way, and intelligence is brought into it, but it is a cry that could not be made in the Old Testament. No one could make it in the Old Testament. There was no one in this relation properly in the Old Testament.

A.R. Does Galatians envisage a growth which is abnormal in the christian? The Spirit of God does the crying there.

J.T. Yes; it is not the normal thing. He will, if

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you let Him, but if you are abnormal, you may not be in the state of faith. You may hinder Him. The Spirit may be grieved in you; hence, you get very cramped and limited in addressing God. Many christians are abnormal. I suppose you might travel the country over and you would not get the expression "Abba, Father" uttered in the systems. They know very little if anything about it.

A.F.M. Does the Lord give the lead to that in Mark's gospel?

J.T. Yes; we only have it three times: once from Christ, and twice in the epistles, and it is significant that He gives the lead. Mark alone tells us that He said it. It is a remarkable expression, probably having in mind that the thought applied to the whole race of man. It could be used by the Jews, the Israelites and also by all men, for the word "father" is Greek. In the words "Abba, Father", the word "Abba" is Aramaic or Hebrew. It is taken from the Hebrew; that is, it would be the Jew and the gentile brought together: it is universal; it includes all. Ephesians is the epistle that takes us nearer to God, and the nearer we get to Him, the more sensitive we are of the universality of sonship; that is, it is the portion of all men on the principle of faith.

A.F.M. How is it that in addressing God, we generally use the words "God and Father"; even in our morning meeting we couple the two titles? Is there such a thing as addressing God simply as "Abba, Father"? Is that common or proper?

J.T. It is not common. It is not general at all, as far as I know, amongst us, but the Lord said it, and these epistles teach that it was done in early days. "Abba" is more the expression of affection. It is a term that has arisen from a child speaking to its father.

C.A.M. Do you not think that a great many times when we use the expression "God and Father", for instance in our prayer meetings, we do so in the relationship

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of children? It is often connected with our daily needs, do you not think?

J.T. No doubt; it is a question of what each has in mind.

C.A.M. I wanted to ask you if, when we are speaking in this light, we are in our spirits positionally in the good of sonship?

J.T. That is what the term implies. We are positionally in the relation: whether we are consciously in it is another thing. The more consciously we are in it, the more we are likely to use "Abba". I believe if we follow the Scriptures, that is what we learn. "Abba" is a word that has arisen from affection, the Father taken account of by a child in affection.

J.E.H. A remark like that would exercise us greatly as to whether we know anything about it, whether we are free to use the terms.

J.T. I think the more we dwell on the combined words "Abba, Father", the more we are impressed that the first is an expression of affection.

A.N.W. In view of that, I wish you would say a little more as to the Spirit viewed distinctly from ourselves and our hearts in which He is. What you say as to affection seems to be confirmed by the fact that He is in our hearts, but the Spirit cries. Where are our hearts when He cries?

J.T. Well, He operates in them. The words would be actually by you. To illustrate, you have a demoniacal person in the gospels -- sometimes the demon speaks and sometimes the person, the man, speaks. I am only using that as an illustration. The Spirit speaks and cries in us, but whether it is you or He, the articulation is by you.

Ques. Is it more the conscience speaking in Romans 8, than in Galatians 4?

J.T. Well, it is more your side; that is, the believer's cry -- "whereby we cry". I think it is one of Paul's 'We's'. I have no doubt he used it.

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A.N.W. Even here, he changes the order. It says, "because ye are sons, God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts", confirming what you say, that He joins with them in that.

J.T. I am sure the apostle was conscious of what it meant. He would follow the Lord's lead, and affection would enter into it. The word "father" in the Greek would give the status more definitely; otherwise, it would be tautology; there is a meaning in it. Literally, they both mean the same thing, but not spiritually. There is affection in the "Abba" that I believe is not in the Greek form. Why did the Lord use the Greek? He was undoubtedly used to speaking Aramaic or the language of Palestine. Why did He use the Greek form in Gethsemane as well? There must have been some meaning in it. The Greek is translated into English for us, but the "Abba" remains, as if it is to be the medium for all times for the breathing to the Father; in all languages it remains.

Rem. It remains uncontaminated in every language through which the Bible and christianity have gone.

J.T. It is really the purest language spiritually; Greek may be literally. Hebrew and Aramaic are kindred languages; the root is in Hebrew and I believe it is because it is the purest spiritual language. Therefore the word remains in all languages so that we have the very breathings of Christ; you cannot get anything more suggestive than that you have the very word He used.

J.H.E. Would "Rabboni", the word that Mary used at the resurrection day, be a similar thought?

J.T. Yes; that would be in another sense. That is 'master', of course.

J.E.H. Why is the word "crying" employed?

J.T. I think it is the urgency, the deep feeling behind it.

J.E.H. There was urgency in Gethsemane.

T.H. Would you mind helping a little in going back.

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In Mark's gospel it does not say 'He cried', but "he said, Abba, Father", and then He refers to the cup and the fulness of the matter of the cup.

J.T. You can understand that with Him it would be the calm utterance of His affection on the one hand, and His full recognition of the Father's place in the word "Father". You can understand in Him how restful and quiet He would be as speaking to His Father; as you get elsewhere: He "lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, Father". I suppose the thought of crying both in Galatians and in Romans is to remind the young christian of how urgent this matter is, this great relation into which we are brought, that the Spirit in us is urgent in it. He cries, "Abba, Father", and He addresses the Father Himself. It is simply that He cries, but the cry is through your lips, through your vocal powers.

R.W.S. In addressing God as "God and Father", is there not the maintenance of reverence as well as intimacy with it?

J.T. I am sure that is right. You can understand that, if you heard the Lord speak in Gethsemane. I believe we have to learn everything from the Lord as to how He spoke. He says to the disciples, "When ye pray, say, Father". If you heard the Lord say that, you would know how to say, "Father".

R.W.S. Would you not prefix it with "God"?

J.T. Not necessarily. You have the example in Paul -- "Blessed be the God and Father", and he says, also, "For this reason I bow my knees to the Father", Ephesians 3:14.

A.F.M. In Ephesians 3, that is a prayer to the Father; whereas, in chapter 1, it is the "God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory", Ephesians 1:17. Would the title of Father there take in the full thought, the mature thought of God in that relation?

J.T. You mean in chapter 3; I think so. "For this reason I bow my knees to the Father". I understand the words "of our Lord Jesus Christ" may not be there; it is the Father.

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-- .D. In the public setting, would you not always prefix the name of God, even if in one's spirit one would be happy in regard to the term "Abba, Father"?

J.T. That is what you see here amongst the saints, but there is no objection whatever to "Father", as I see it. There is no irreverence about it. The Spirit gives you liberty to say "Father".

J.S. There is no undue license.

J.T. No; I should not say it in a natural sense; some persons might. There is no hindrance that I can see to a christian saying, "Father".

-- .D. You often find christians that do. They use the term "Father" continuously interwoven in their prayers and thanksgiving.

C.A.M. They hardly seem to use it in the sense in which Mr. Darby uses it in his hymn. We sing it, do we not?

J.T. We sing it constantly, and it is right to use it in giving thanks just as it is in singing.

Rem. They had just come into the use of it from clericalism, but sonship is in the state of the sons and in the light that they have.

J.T. Yes, and in the unction with which it is said. In speaking to the Lord, it says, "No one can say, Lord Jesus, unless in the power of the Holy Spirit" (1 Corinthians 12:3), and so "Abba, Father" by the Spirit has the unction in it which gives it its place. It is perfectly suitable when it is spoken in that unction.

F.H.L. The Lord never used it in front of His disciples. Is it because there is not an intelligent state that we do not hear it?

J.T. That may be. I do not know at all why it is we do not use it. We follow probably those that we hear and we pick up what we hear. That is well to a point, but it is well to test things out by the Spirit, and if Scripture warrants the use of "Abba, Father", there is nothing to hinder its use, as I see.

F.H.L. I was wondering whether in view of the close of things and the coming of the Lord there is an

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awakening of the affections that would bring that out.

J.T. Just so. Certainly the best hymns we have are full of it.

Ques. Would you say more as to the difference between the light of sonship through faith, and the use of words by the Holy Spirit?

J.T. I think that helps as to having power in the assembly. They were uttered up in the Spirit, for it is a cry of the Spirit. That is the first thing you get here, the Spirit cries, and He will do that through your voice, if there is an opportunity in you for Him to do it. I think it is well for us all to think of Galatians, because some of us here may wonder what we are speaking about, what is sonship, and am I a son? So Galatians 3 and 4 present the great initial and general idea of sonship; how it has come about and how it is applied to christians; that every christian, every true believer today is a son. That is what this scripture tells us. It is one of the most important things for young christians to accept; it does not depend on whether I am in a good state or a bad state -- not that I would belittle these things, but I want to show how it applies. It is a question of the time, the time of faith has come and sonship belongs to that time as over against the time of bondage, that is Israel under the law.

Ques. Would faith in Christ Jesus mean that you accept Him as the Head of the new order?

J.T. Well, it is just faith in Him. That is enough. There is no question of what measure of intelligence goes with faith.

J.E.H. Will you please tell us again what led Paul to take up this matter?

J.T. Well, it was because they were going back to judaism.

J.E.H. Where does that fit in now with us?

J.T. It fits in with the denominations particularly, for they have gone back to the legal state of things. I doubt that sonship is known at all among our brethren

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in the denominations consciously because they are so hampered with the position and circumstances.

J.E.H. Why is it so little known by us that are not so hampered?

J.T. I am not prepared to say that it is little known. I believe the Lord is going to help us in the matter. I mean to say, we will take you as a typical brother among us. You can speak to God in liberty in sonship, and there are dozens of others, thank God, like you that can do that today. God is working on that.

J.E.H. I was only going by what you said earlier that the thing is known so little among us. What is holding us back from it?

J.T. I do not say that we are being held back, but there are a lot of young christians that are moving on and need this instruction. They need to see that this relation belongs to them because they are in this present period instead of living in David's time. They are living in the time of the Spirit. Since the time of the Lord's death and resurrection and ascension, He brought in faith, He brought in sonship, He brought in all we have, and it belongs to us because we are in this dispensation.

C.A.M. Do you think one reason for our slowness is that we might be doing what the Galatians did? They put themselves in a position where they were really expecting something from themselves. Do you not think we might be slow because we are not free from hoping that we are reaching something?

J.T. I think so; at this point, anyway. It is made a question of time, "when the fulness of the time was come", in this section. Well, do I live in this time? I do, and if I do and I have faith, this belongs to me. I am no longer in the nursery; I belong to the grown-ups spiritually that have access properly to the Father.

W.B-w. The point of the period is a good one. It says the period is fixed by the Father -- the period that we live in.

J.T. That is it.

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A.F.M. I was going to ask if we ought not to be like Paul himself. He said, "Be as I am, for I also am as ye, brethren", Galatians 4:12. Would that not go a long way?

J.T. I think so. You see he was a son and they were sons. "Be as I am, for I also am as ye" would mean that he was in the enjoyment of liberty in his soul, and what he enjoyed belonged to them as much as it belonged to him because they all lived in this wonderful period of time.

Ques. You mentioned Isaac as a type. Does Ishmael come in to hinder the activity of sonship?

J.T. Well, he does. Ishmael in the house interfered with the matter.

Ques. What does that mean?

J.T. It is man after the flesh, what is of the flesh in myself. That has to be dealt with.

A.R.S. To make this plain for these young people, is it not a fact that sonship is the absolute state that belongs to the people of God. Now I believe that, and if I give the Spirit His way with me, He will lead me so that I will be in the good of sonship.

J.T. That is right. So He will make a great impression on you at the beginning because He cries, and He uses your vocal powers in the cry.

F.H.L. It is open to brothers and sisters. You were speaking of all believers. I think sometimes some of the younger ones are hindered on that line.

J.T. Does it not say expressly, "there is no bondman nor freeman; there is no male and female; for ye are all one in Christ Jesus". That is expressly stated here.

J.S. You would have young christians especially open to be freemen in the reception of the light of sonship, for the light of sonship is seen here in Galatians. The young, and the older ones too, have a tendency to go back to judaism, but spiritually we are to see that this is the period of sonship and we are not to go back to what was held.

J.T. The old system runs along in that God saw it

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too, but God's thought for all Jews in Jerusalem was sonship, but they elected to remain where they were in the old system. Comparatively few came into sonship, so he says here, "Jerusalem which is now" (that is, the historic Jerusalem that the gospel was brought to) "is in bondage with her children", Galatians 4:25. That is where she is, but Jerusalem is destroyed and the Jews scattered. The principle of the old system and all man-made systems in christendom have been defeated by God. That is the state of things around us today, and the deliverance that God has effected is wonderful as one and another is brought into the great light, that this is the period of sonship and that I should not be in the nursery when I can go right into the drawing-room, so to speak, where men are. This is the time of faith in which I can speak freely to God.

A.R.S. Why should you be under the schoolmaster that has been discharged after Christ came? Is that not right?

J.T. Yes, that is right.

A.F.M. Would you mind saying a word about the apostle himself? He speaks about God revealing His Son in him that he might announce Him as glad tidings among the nations.

J.T. That is how the thing is conveyed in the gospel. The preaching of God's Son conveys the idea of sonship. It is Christ presented in the gospel, the idea of sonship is conveyed, and then the great fact that the believer is brought into it; we are sons in relation to Christ.

Ques. In addressing the Lord, what relationship do you have in mind? In addressing the Father, you have the relation of a son.

J.T. You address the Lord as subject to Him. "Dost thou believe on the Son of God?" That is the question. He says, "Who is he, Lord, that I may believe on him? And Jesus said to him, Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he. And

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he said, I believe, Lord", John 9:35 - 38. He did not say, Son, I believe. He said, Lord. The Father is in itself a dominating title. It is not like the title of Son. Father is a dominating title, and is suitable to use in addressing the Deity, for we know if we are related to Him. It is not derogatory at all of the divine greatness. It is the title that involves dominance in itself, in the Father.

Ques. Then there is another phase in which we address the Lord. We would address Him as Husband as in the relationship to Him of wife, would we not? I am speaking of using the word "Husband", too, in addressing Him in that relationship. In the Song of Songs, it says, "I found him whom my soul loveth: I held him, and would not let him go" (Song of Songs 3:4), and what is said in reference to Solomon and to what the bride is typifies Christ and the assembly. Could that not be employed in a sense, today?

J.T. Yes. I think in addressing the Lord Jesus, the second Person, as we speak, it is always right to use the title "Lord" because we are in subjection.

A.R.S. He has been made Lord and Christ.

J.T. He is our Head, but we do not address Him as our Head exactly. I think the apostle's allusion in Corinthians would indicate that the title "Lord" should always be used. One can say "Lord Jesus" when you are addressing Him.

C.A.M. The prayers in Acts would seem to confirm that. When the brethren prayed in the Acts, they did use that title.

A.N.W. Referring again to the method of addressing the Father, I notice you are very hesitant about it. Are you almost suggesting that we might amend our method of addressing Him?

J.T. I think so. There is nothing to hinder it that I see. The Lord has led the way; indeed, the Spirit leads the way in it. Believers characteristically are asked to do it, so it seems to me to be perfectly clear.

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J.S. Our hymns are full of it.

C.A.M. Do you not think in connection with spiritual things, that there is such a matter as holy boldness? Sometimes, I think we are cast in on ourselves, when we really should have access to these holy things.

J.T. Yes, "through him", it says. "Through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father" (Ephesians 2:18), and then it says, "I bow my knees to the Father", Ephesians 3:14. I do not see anything at all to interfere with the use of the precious term in addressing God in the assembly.

J.S. It may be that we are suffering more from traditional teaching, things handed down to us, than we are apt to admit, although the Spirit of God would have us review these things in the light of what is coming out.

J.T. I think so. I should like to see this verse or appellation of God clearly understood in assembly service because undoubtedly the word "Abba" has a meaning that we have not understood. I believe that it suggests affection. It is a form of address that provides for affection, spiritual affection Godward. I doubt that we have employed it as it is presented in Scripture. I would be thankful if the Lord helped us in it so that assembly service is on a higher level, not only as a matter of light but as a matter of affection, or feeling, because the word "cry" undoubtedly has that in mind, to call attention to feeling. That feeling going out must be delightful to God.

E.B. Is not the cry "Abba, Father" included in addressing God as God and Father?

J.T. Oh, no, it is not. The "Abba" gives it an abundancy that you do not get without it.

C.A.M. I thought it was interesting what you said about using every language. Presumably that language implies that emotional feeling.

J.T. I think so, the root of the word going back to

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a child when it begins to lisp its father's name. The word is undoubtedly built up from that and employed by the Lord Jesus Himself. What affection there must have been in it, as He spoke to His Father at that time!

A.F.M. Have you any particular period of time in which that would be in use and exercise amongst us? Would you confine it to assembly service?

J.T. Not exactly; the Lord spoke of that. In both Galatians and Ephesians, it is initial. I think it is brought in in those two epistles to call attention to feeling, feeling that is normal to believers as they begin. The Holy Spirit coming in, cries. It would indicate to you that He is there in relation to God, and you are in the relation of the son. He has got a medium thus to express feeling Godward.

W.B-w. Would the Lord in Matthew 11:25 give the lead, when He says, "I praise thee, Father, Lord of the heaven and of the earth"?

J.T. Yes; that helps. It says He rejoiced in spirit there, the feeling was there.

Ques. Is this an established matter, that is, God having sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, or is it something God does when we are together in the assembly?

J.T. No, you have received a spirit of adoption. "Ye have not received a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye have received a spirit of adoption", Romans 8:15. Attention is called there to the kind of spirit that He is, "a spirit of adoption whereby we cry, Abba, Father". That is characteristic "we". You may be sure that Paul often cried it.

A.R.S. In the scripture quoted, the Lord says, "Father" but when at Gethsemane, He says, "Abba, Father". Is "Abba, Father" connected with Gethsemane?

J.T. It is connected with profound feeling. I think that is the point in it. The Spirit cries, and you cry by the Spirit. It does not mean that the Spirit is

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addressing the Father by Himself, as it were. It is not that He is the Father to the Spirit. That is not the point. The point is that He cries in the believer. He is in our hearts, and cries in the believer; so that it is the spirit of adoption. He takes that form in us. He is the Spirit of God, but He takes the form of the spirit of adoption.

Rem. The import of the use of that word is not Paul's; it comes from God. It is God that sent. It says, "God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father".

J.T. He is waiting and looking for that cry. The Holy Spirit would not say that to the Father, as it were, by Himself because He is not in that relation. He has never taken up the relationship of Son to the Father.

F.H.L. Abba would be the affection of a babe, and "Father" would be the intelligence of a son.

J.T. I think that is the way we ought to understand it. The Greek word "father" would give the full status that could be known, and it is universal, being that language; whereas, the other word is more limited; the setting of it being really Hebrew. It is the spiritual setting, and one of great affection, fatherly affection, family affection because we have to go back to Abraham for all that was developed in Israel. He is the great father, and he is the father of a multitude, but that is emphasised in Abraham, and that is what is brought in here, so he says, "But if ye are of Christ, then ye are Abraham's seed, heirs according to promise", Galatians 3:29. The link is with Abraham.

J.S. Do you think the word might be one that we would acquire in the nursery, and the other more in the drawing room?

J.T. Of course, in the nursery, the thought of the father is not known in "Abba". It is the schoolmaster, as you know. He does not always draw out much affection.

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J.S. I was thinking more of the principle of the mother tongue.

J.T. Well, of course, if you take it up in that way as coming down from Abraham, I think there is something in the Hebrew of a peculiar spiritual nature that is not in any other language.

A.F.M. You can understand Isaac's using that term repeatedly, can you not?

J.T. Yes; it belonged to him.

W.B-w. Do I understand that the thought of God and Father is more a matter of light; whereas, "Abba, Father" is more a matter of affection?

J.T. I think so. That is more what will be our eternal portion.

C.A.M. Perhaps the "Abba" is more the love side, and the "Father" the light side.

J.T. Yes, giving the universal status.

R.W. S. In the epistles the verb is present tense in each case. It is suggestive, having a present continuous bearing. It is not something that has been or will be done. It is "crying".

J.T. Yes.

A.R. The crying is effected in me by the Spirit of God. That would be in the same way in which the Lord Jesus said it. If I take it up as governed by the Spirit of God in me, it would be reproducing it in the same way in which He said it.

J.T. Yes; it is a divine Person in both cases.

G.MacP. Are you suggesting that we should be governed in assembly service by the love that governs divine Persons in the relation taken up by Them towards us?

J.T. You mean the relation of Father and Son? Just so.

T.H. Did the twelve disciples lose the good of this? He withdrew Himself a little away from the three even, as if this was a secret matter.

J.T. Well the Lord never prayed with them, as a

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matter of fact. He is seen more in prayer in Gethsemane perhaps than anywhere, but evidently His prayer was heard. Anyway, it is written for us that He said it.

A.N.W. In John 17, where we are allowed to overhear the blessed Lord in prayer, He uses the appellations "Father", "Holy Father", and "Righteous Father". Perhaps that confirms also what you say.

J.T. I think it does. It is more a universal thought. The other is evidently a rare thing, but it has its place, and the more spiritual we are, the more we shall value it.

R.D.G. In addressing the Father after the Supper, we do not exactly cry "Abba" in our speaking, do we?

J.T. Oh, no. The word 'cry' I think, means just strength of feeling, strong feeling.

R.D.G. I wondered if perhaps the Lord only used this term in the garden in extremity, and the other two references are only used in connection with the word 'cry'. I wondered whether it would only be used in extremities.

J.T. No; I think it refers to the beginning of things, simplicity of feeling, strong feeling. A little child will cry. It is an expression of feeling, I think.

Ques. Is it the necessity of it viewed from the divine side?

J.T. I think so; the Spirit's urgency that there should be an early return.

R.A.L. You would not like to hear 'Holy Father' ten or fifteen times, the way the word 'Lord' is often heard.

J.T. It is always painful where you get constant repetition of 'Lord', or 'God', or 'Father' in a prayer. It is always painful when it is used unduly. We should never think of speaking to an ordinary person that way, calling out his name every few words. We ought to be intelligent. I think God looks for intelligence in our address.

Rem. Such repetition would not be the result of a lead given by the Holy Spirit. There is a difference

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between a doctrinal address and one based on the movement of the Holy Spirit in the heart.

J.T. There is, and I believe these two scriptures are brought in to show that God is looking for a return. "Abba, Father" is delightful to Him.

A.P.T. It is known relationship, is it not? In God as Father you have feelings, and affections are in movement.

J.T. It is a known relationship, and that is what this epistle stresses, that the youngest christian may take it on, "Ye are all God's sons". However young you may be in the faith, you belong to the sons of God.

W.B-w. And the oldest christian can use it.

J.T. Surely.

A.F.M. Does not the expression in Romans 8 help us, when we see the believer has advanced quite a bit in his soul. The initial thing is in Galatians, but in Romans 8 the believer has made some spiritual headway.

J.T. He has, and the apostle uses this form for the sake of convenience, "Whereby we cry". It is not a question of who is doing it, but we will suppose that it is being done. That is abstract. If it is being done, God has a return. That is brought in more to show what you have in the Spirit.

A.F.M. You are in the domain of the Spirit in Romans 8, are you not?

J.T. Yes.

G.H. Would you say that chastening and discipline are always in connection with sonship?

J.T. That is right, "who is the son that the father chastens not?" Hebrews 12:7. That is to bring us into the consciousness of the thing, showing that what we are saying is not a question of state but a question of light; and Romans 8 says, there were those who said "Abba, Father". That is the point; God is having the return that He is looking for.

R.W.S. Does that not show that divine Persons

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like us to be versatile spiritually, that we do not say, 'Father, Father', but "Abba, Father", as if They like to hear different terms as expressive of different degrees of affection.

J.T. Just so. It has often been talked about, this verse, all down the line of christendom. Why is it? The more you think of it, the more you dwell upon it, the more you are impressed with the fact that affection lies in the first.

J.S. And the more you see that it is by design.

Rem. One language being known and enjoyed all over the world on the first day of the week.

J.T. One great principle with God is return or circulation. Everything emanates from God, "of him, and through him, and for him are all things", Romans 11:36. Circulation is the idea. It comes out from Him. The Spirit in the believer cries, the thing goes back again in the form that God loves.

G.MacP. Would you say, in Galatians the Spirit crying is to give us a lead that we should take up and cry as being in the intelligence and affection of it?

J.T. That is right. We see the urgency of it, and if the Spirit was so urgent in you at the beginning, why should it lapse? It should go on.

G.MacP. Would you mind saying how the Lord speaks, saying, "I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God", John 20:17? He does not use the word "Abba, Father" in John 20.

J.T. That does not hold to what we are saying. It is a question of languages, I think, and there was the additional language of Rome that appeared on the cross. There were three languages. The Latin form is not brought in. If there had been the word "father" in Latin, then you would have a three-fold thought, but it is not necessary. Greek represents the universal thought, I think.

C.A.M. The fact that when Paul spoke in Hebrew

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they kept more quiet, would confirm that there is something about that language.

J.T. And the Lord spoke to him out of heaven in that language, Hebrew. It would show what a place it had.

A.Pf. The remark was made that this is used all over the world on the first day of the week. Would you confine it to the Lord's day only?

J.T. No, but I think that is the characteristic time for it.

Ques. What is the difference between the truth of Romans 8 and what you get in Ephesians 1?

J.T. I thought Galatians and Ephesians were necessary in this inquiry so that everyone in this hall should get the thought and apply it to himself. That is the idea of these two epistles. The thing should be understood by all christians: "ye are all God's sons by faith in Christ Jesus". That is inclusive of every person who has faith, and the following verses down to the end of the passage read in chapter 4 show how God wrought to bring it about, making it a matter of time, and how He has in mind that there should be a return in the cry "Abba, Father". Now when you come to Ephesians, you get the highest level of the assembly. That is, it is referred to in eternal counsel: "Having marked us out beforehand for adoption through Jesus Christ to himself", Ephesians 1:5. That is eternal counsel. That is the relation in which we should stand according to counsel eternally; so that it is the highest presentation of the truth, I think.

Ques. Is sonship always presented from that aspect, but we do not answer to it?

J.T. It is presented in that aspect in Ephesians. It is confined in the earlier setting nationally to Israel, to whom belongs the adoption. It says the adoption belongeth to them, but it is taken out of that setting and applied to the saints that form the assembly, in a higher way, so it is taken back into counsel, predestination.

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A.F.M. The thought of "the good pleasure of his will" comes in in relation to that.

J.T. Quite so.

A.R. What do you understand about "taken us into favour in the Beloved". Just open that up for us.

J.T. It is a beautiful reference to Christ, that He should be called the Beloved. It is the embodiment of all the previous thoughts. "This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight", Matthew 3:17. You get that throughout the New Testament. "The only-begotten Son" -- all that is embodied in this: -- "My beloved", leaving out the Person's name, as much as to say, Who else is it? There is only One. The Beloved is only One.

A.R.S. You have this scripture -- "translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love", Colossians 1:13.

J.T. That is not quite on the same level as this; although it is very near it.

F.H.L. God does not say 'in whom I have found all my delight', as we often misquote it, because there are those that share in it.

J.T. That is right. He is leading many sons to glory. He is leading us to glory. We are all being conformed to the image of His Son.

Ques. What is the difference between having chosen us and having marked us out? One seems to be the choice of the saints in Christ; and the other, the marking out for sonship.

J.T. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ ... before the world's foundation". That is in Christ, that we should be holy and blameless for adoption through Jesus Christ, the Man according to the good pleasure of His will. The choice is in Christ, the marking out is with the same persons; He would mark you off for this great calling. You are set apart. He has His own way of putting His stamp on you. He is marking us off.

Ques. Are we marked off in power?

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J.T. Yes, God looks down on your actual existence. He sees the thing from the beginning. He sees you. He sees you marked off for this great relationship.

A.R. You are in a certain class, as it were, in God's mind for eternity.

J.T. That is right; every man is blessed in the mind of God for eternity, but here is a certain class. Ephesians contemplates a certain class, and they are marked off for sonship with Jesus Christ Himself.

A.F.M. "To himself" -- say a word about that.

J.T. That would be entirely for Him -- "of him, and through him, and for him are all things", Romans 11:36. How precious that is, being marked off by Himself!

W.B-w. This first chapter is eternity.

J.T. Yes; it is the highest platform we can get.

Ques. Does chapter 1 go beyond the thought of the sanctuary?

J.T. I think so. This is our place eternally.

Ques. Do we, in the service of sonship, go outside the need of the sanctuary while we are here?

J.T. The word "sanctuary" contemplates the present time, or the millennial time, not eternity. It is a relative term. It contemplates the presence of evil, and provision is made to keep it out. There is opportunity for sonship.

A.F.M. How far would these verses that speak of eternity go in this chapter? You spoke about this chapter being eternity, but it also involves the world to come. There is a certain verse, possibly, where the eternal thought leaves off.

J.T. I think it is the verse we started with, "To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he has taken us into favour in the Beloved". Then he goes on to redemption in the next verse. It is a sort of prologue, giving the great thought of what God has in His mind.

W.B-w. What did you have in mind in referring

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to Israel in sonship, and then to Aaron's sons having part in sonship? What distinction did you have in mind?

J.T. The application to Israel is national. It has that place as a most favoured nation over against other nations, but the sons of Aaron are typical of ourselves as sons in the sanctuary. It is a priestly relation. It is our relation with Christ, I think, as the High Priest.

W.B-w. That is when the service is carried on.

C.A.M. Would you regard the expression "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" as distinctly applicable to the present family?

J.T. Yes, quite so.

C.A.M. It seems such a very wonderful expression. Would you say it involves the coming of that glorious Person into manhood conditions?

J.T. It does. It is not what existed before incarnation; it alludes to incarnation.

C.A.M. It seems so clearly to confirm what the saints have been dwelling on recently.

J.T. Yes; it corresponds to the well-known term in the Old Testament, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It takes the place of that great expression in the Old Testament.

A.P.T. Is the expression in Romans 8:14, "for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God", a descriptive statement to let you know who are the sons of God?

J.T. Yes; that is where you would look for them. They are marked off that way. If you see any like that, they are sons.

R.A.L. Does sonship apply to the believer individually or collectively?

J.T. I think "So thou art no longer bondman, but son; but if son, heir also through God", would be individual; but generally, the thought is collective, and in the mind of God, it would be collective -- eternal sons.

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Ques. What would you say about this verse in Ephesians being in the past tense? It says, "Who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing".

J.T. Well, it is past, but it is continuous.

Ques. We might think this is something to wait for. Is the Ephesian assembly looked on as individuals, by Paul?

J.T. Yes; everything is anticipative in Ephesians.

Ques. Does this give us spiritual licence to anticipate it in assembly service?

J.T. It does. When it says, "has quickened us with the Christ ... and has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus", that is anticipative, too.

T.H. In Romans it says, He is "marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by resurrection of the dead", Romans 1:4. What relation has that to the marking out?

J.T. It has a great relation. That is how the Lord Jesus was marked out. He was marked out as Son of God because He raised the dead. Nobody but He could do that. That is what came out in John 11.

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ASSEMBLY MATERIAL (1)

Acts 16:13 - 34; Acts 17:1 - 4

A.N.W. In suggesting this subject we had in mind the young assemblies at Philippi and Thessalonica and the way the Lord was brought before them in ministry with a view to establishing assembly material in those places.

J.T. Keeping the thought of assembly material before us will steady our minds. The Spirit of God seems to be particularly concerned about this work at Philippi. "And having passed through Phrygia and the Galatian country, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia, having come down to Mysia, they attempted to go to Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them; and having passed by Mysia they descended to Troas. And a vision appeared to Paul in the night: There was a certain Macedonian man, standing and beseeching him, and saying, Pass over into Macedonia and help us", Acts 16:6 - 9. And then it says, "immediately we sought to go forth to Macedonia, concluding that the Lord had called us to announce to them the glad tidings". It is very plain that great care was exercised by heaven, that the servants might first go forward to a certain given point, and then in the vision of the Macedonian man, representing the actual need in the section, followed by the apostle's conclusion that it was of the Lord; the Lord made it very plain that this was a matter of great concern to heaven. This is all to be kept in mind in dealing with the result of this work, what it was to be for God and what it was for God, according to the apostle, what it was for the testimony, and what kinds of persons are mentioned, because they are mentioned with a view of indicating what the material was that was secured at Philippi for divine purposes.

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H.A.S. When the Lord was here it was said that He could not do many mighty works because of their unbelief. Now here in the gentile world, heaven sees a place where the message is going to be received.

A.N.W. Would you allow the glad tidings to be preached anywhere without assembly formation as the objective?

J.T. I think the Scriptures indicate that the assembly is in mind, to take out a people that is set for God.

C.A.M. What you have said conveys to me that God makes marvellous guidance and provisions in view of a certain objective such as this, in the way of guiding His servants, and selecting the material. Is that right?

J.T. I think so. That is what I think you see in these verses to which I was calling attention. The Holy Spirit, it says, forbade them to speak in a certain place, and then the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them to go to another place, and then the Macedonian man besought them to come over to Macedonia, and then the conclusion that the Lord had so ordered it. That is very remarkable, and shows what this particular field was. It was like the wise woman, "She considereth a field, and acquireth it", Proverbs 31:16. She has a certain purpose in mind.

C.A.M. Yes, and this particular city was the first city of that part. Do you not think that is a point to take account of, that it was not just any city?

J.T. No, it is a particular one. It is called "the first city of that part of Macedonia, a colony". I think the word 'colony' has great significance in view of Europe and the great colonising enterprises there from that day to this, and in view of the use God makes of colonies, for indeed where we are today is a colony, an extension of certain conditions.

Rem. This was the first great end reached in the confirmation to Jacob.

J.T. I think that was in mind, Europe in a general way, the great colonising enterprise.

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A.F.M. Would the fact that we have a woman and a man prominently in the chapter before us, suggest the two parts that make up assembly material?

J.T. You mean Lydia and the jailor? Quite so, the woman leads spiritually, because the apostle goes to her after he is released from prison.

A.N.W. Would this satanic interference only confirm the importance of the move? Was it designed that there should be satanic interference between the securing of the woman and the man?

J.T. That is what comes out. Women are in mind first of all. They assembled, we are told. That is a word we should notice, too. "And on the sabbath day we went outside the gate by the river, where it was the custom for prayer to be, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had assembled".

Ques. Is there a suggestion, one being a woman of Asia and the other a man of Macedonia, that the middle wall of partition no longer existed, diverse elements being merged?

J.T. Quite so.

C.A.M. Would it suggest conquest? I mean that God is going to take this citadel. The fact that it was a woman must have been a severe blow to Satan, do you not think, for that is where he made his first inroad?

J.T. Yes, you mean the woman was in the transgression. This is a great triumph, and not in an ordinary person, because Lydia is a very extraordinary person. She is a woman of affairs, and that also has its place in Europe, a great commercial part.

J.S. She was from the city of Thyatira, was she not? It is remarkable that there should have been such a grouping together -- "certain women". Was there not a prior work of God in the women?

J.T. Lydia is a remarkable type of soil. I think what is brought to light is soil. The idea of a field and of acquiring a field runs through Scripture. Isaac said that the smell of Jacob was as the smell of a field

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which Jehovah hath blessed. The woman in Proverbs, who represents the assembly, acquires a field, and uses it, and sees that it is fruitful for her purpose. I believe what is in mind here is the soil and the field for the purpose in mind.

C.A.M. How are you referring to the river?

J.T. That is part of it. All that is mentioned has to be taken into account, the colony and the fact that Lydia was from Thyatira. The colony implied that it was a direct and integral part of the system of Rome.

Rem. Would a seller of purple suggest bringing in the idea of glory?

J.T. I think the thought would be what Europe was or would be, but then the purple also suggests, perhaps, the suffering that would accompany the testimony here. The colonies had a city status. They were an integral part of the city of Rome. The same law that governed Rome governed the colonies, and the Roman colonies had a peculiar relation to the centre, so that it was Roman territory in an exceptional way, and God has allowed that.

J.S. It was the design of heaven to acquire this field. It would appear as though two fields had been passed by, Asia and Bithynia.

J.T. That is what we should see; the facts mentioned by the Spirit are for our consideration so that we might see what is in mind, and it is possible to apply the principle at the present time as to assembly material.

J.S. It is not simply any field, but that which the Spirit of God indicates.

J.T. I think so. The idea of the gospel going into all the world is promiscuous, but it is general. But when you come to the working out of it, there is another law that interferes, and that is the levitical law, or the principle that the labourers are under the direct ordering of heaven and are to be guided accordingly; that is, heaven selects its own field or fields for a specific purpose.

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Ques. Would this suggest an advance on what had been done? The Spirit of God sent Philip down to the Ethiopian individual, and Peter to Cornelius. It was the Spirit in each case, and is this an advance, which has in view the assembly as its objective?

J.T. I think that confirms what we are saying, that heaven selects its own territory, and the levitical principle requires that the workmen are to understand that it is the field of Boaz, and they are to understand that Ruth is not to be in another field. We are to know what heaven is doing and what kind of material is in mind.

R.W.S. Who is this Macedonian that stands and beseeches and says, "Come over into Macedonia, and help us"? What does he represent?

J.T. He represents, I think, the West, not the West of Alexander or his father Philip. It is their territory. These Macedonians are men that stand out in the history of the world as types. They were great aggressive men, conquerors, especially Alexander. He did not ask for help from Asia; he went and took Asia. Well, now, this man is not like that. He needs help. The world leaders do not need help; they are able to command and do their part. This man is helpless. He is a Western man, but a Western man as the subject of the work of God.

J.S. Typical of christendom, I suppose.

J.T. Just so. He needs help -- "Come over into Macedonia". That is a territory and field.

J.S. The general bearing of the gospel would be that God would have all men to be saved.

J.T. That is the general thought, but then there is another law. That is the levitical law that requires that the services of the levites are carried on with a view of results and that requires certain territories and certain fields. That is what is in mind here. You are not to go there, and then there is a positive call here, so it is perfectly plain that the Lord has called us, says the apostle.

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J.S. Would it be in keeping with the movements of the testimony in the book of Numbers?

J.T. The levites are under control and direction. The levite is not a free lance at all. There is nothing further away from the levitical thought than the idea of being an independent man who does as he pleases.

F.H.L. The fact that he saw the man showed that the need was severe.

J.T. The word ought to be taken up in the abstract, what man is. The man feels his need and his helplessness. Well, God has begun a work in that man. We were speaking the other day about the end of Mark 14. It says Peter wept. The last word in the chapter is 'wept', in such a scene as is described. The Lord is a prisoner, and the chief priests and the scribes and the whole Sanhedrim took counsel to deliver the Lord Jesus over to Pilate. Pilate knew that they did it for envy and that He was innocent. He represents the element that knows right and wrong, but under the power of Satan, he lets the right go; he delivers the Lord up to be crucified. Well there is just one element in that whole scene around the Lord that was morally right and that was Peter's weeping. There is something in this man -- "Come over into Macedonia, and help us". See to whom he is speaking. God is working in that man.

A.N.W. It would not be too much to say that he is condensing the prayers of this woman, would it?

J.T. Quite so.

A.N.W. It would be the result of those prayers, do you not think?

J.T. Quite so. There may have been long prayers made in that place where it was the custom for prayer to be, but this man condenses them. I suppose he is a good illustration of assembly material in the prayer meeting.

A.F.M. I was going to ask whether the thought of Philippi being the open door into Europe, suggests

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that in that continent God was going to get the best out of it for His assembly -- the best material.

J.T. That is what is in mind. The thought is a field being required, a field suitable for a certain purpose.

W.B-w. Does that field refer to Matthew 13 where the parable suggests that he sold all that He had and bought the field for the treasure? Is it in mind to take the treasure out of the field?

J.T. Quite so. There you have the whole thought. The field is the world. A man may buy an enormous tract of land, but with different purposes in view. If he is a good farmer, he will know what kind of land is suitable for each crop. I think that is the way it should be taken up. God has scattered persons abroad over the whole world, but He has carefully fenced them in, and He knows where they are and what is suitable for this and for that. I believe Jacob is in mind for the assembly.

C.A.M. Referring to the fact that God gets the best, I would like to ask about Lydia. She seems to be an indication of that. I suppose she was really a very prosperous kind of woman. She had her business and had belonged to Thyatira, but where God wanted her was in Philippi. I mean to say, the thing just served the purpose.

J.T. I think that is right. Another thing is that she is a woman of affairs. She is a seller; she is not called a merchantess.

Ques. Would she represent a seeking soul? She was a worshipper of God. The Lord opened her heart so when Paul comes along, she is ready.

J.T. I think she represents the field. She is the kind of woman that the Lord could do things with. We have very hard soil in America here. How many could you get like this? The Lord could open the heart of a woman to listen to the greatest things. That is what the Spirit of God was saying through Paul, the very greatest things that could be said. The Lord is free to

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take up this woman to listen and attend. She was a woman of affairs who knew how to attend to her business, and she is going to attend to this now and give up her business for the moment.

Ques. Have you any thought why at the outset the assembly material was in Asia but that has almost entirely disappeared and the assembly work now is almost entirely in Europe?

J.T. I have often thought of it. It is a colonial thought, the great principle of expansion or extension. God selected Europe for the assembly. Sometimes we hear of parts of Europe where the testimony used to be, but is not now. It is terrible to think of that, Greece and Macedonia and Egypt and all that territory including Palestine and Syria. How pathetic it is! The Lord has not forgotten one meeting that used to be in those places, and we ought to think of these things, for the Lord feels it. Well now this colonial principle has opened up America and Australia and New Zealand and many other places, and God is working in those places. That is what we should see.

T.H. When our children ask us as to the saints -- and there are very few that are real Americans -- we would have to refer them to what has been extended.

J.T. That is right. It is what has been extended. The fact that we were born in England, does not matter. We are here. It is a colonial thought.

Rem. So the work of God in England began colonially from Rome. The gospel was brought from Rome through Augustine and others. That is the same thought as you are expressing.

R.W.S. It is a bit of divine territory and Lydia waits to hear Paul. It is time for her to hear Paul speak, is it not?

J.T. Quite so, to attend to the things. I think the allusion is to the kind of person she was.

A.F.M. Seed for soil.

J.T. She was capable of receiving the greatest seed

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that could be sown, Paul's ministry, the best kind of seed that could be sown.

C.A.M. The fact that she had given her ear to Paul seems to be a special blow to the enemy, the ear of the woman having been devoted to other things at the outset.

J.T. Then the enemy begins with this girl, the spirit of Python. I think if we want assembly material, we cannot consider a more remarkable example than Lydia.

F.H.L. You were speaking of assembly material here in America and how difficult it is to find it. The material in this instance was actually brought to light outside the city.

J.T. Quite so. You can understand how Paul and Silas would say to themselves, What a remarkable correspondence there is here with what we know; the Lord suffered without the camp and these dear people are assembling outside the gate. There is that thought in it, I think.

J.S. Do you consider all this the development of Japheth?

J.T. Yes; he is scattered or enlarged; that is what his name signifies. God had that in mind in what has come about in Europe.

W.B-w. Is there not some thought in Lydia having a house in Philippi? Although she was of Thyatira, she was not a guest at a hotel.

J.T. No doubt the house would be for the testimony. There is a group of things here that we have often dwelt upon but perhaps the Lord would enlarge them in our minds, the house of the christian and the household. That comes out in this chapter. The house is a suggestion of hospitality, which is a great matter in the promotion of the Lord's interests; moreover, she did not ask any one into it until her household was baptised. That is beautiful, I think. I do not think any one with an unbaptised house should ask people into it.

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Rem. She said, "If ye have judged me to be faithful".

J.T. That showed that she was baptised and her house.

C.A.M. I suppose it makes it a clean place, in that way.

J.T. It does. The place here is manifestly a clean place.

N.MacC. An evangelistic spirit would not wait for a man to indicate that he needed help.

J.T. No; of course the servant gets his guidance from the Lord. I think we ought to see that this section gives that idea of guidance from the Lord. There are some meetings that never invite anybody. They say, if a brother is guided by the Lord, he will come to us, but then an invitation encourages them to go, and I think this is the principle: "Come over into Macedonia, and help us".

A.N.W. He is not isolated. It says, 'We came to the conclusion' and 'we went'. He had somebody with him; he is not alone.

J.T. It is a mark of this section that the apostle has co-workers. Is that not the thought? He has co-workers. It would mean not only that you serve, but that you have sympathy in your service; you feel you are not acting alone; you are supported in your service. I think that is the support that comes out here.

A.N.W. Luke was evidently with him, but Lydia attends to Paul.

J.T. She knew the man that had the light of God. In chapter 14, the lame man heard Paul speak. Hundreds had heard him, but the Spirit says that this man heard him. Really that man discerned something in Paul that he had not seen and heard in any one else.

A.D. I was going to ask about Philip. He had just one person in mind. He was sent down to the desert. Would you make a difference between him going there and Paul going over in answer to "Come over into Macedonia, and help us"?

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J.T. I think the idea here is that the Macedonian man represents a class or subdivision of the rest. "Us" is a wide thought spiritually. "Come over into Macedonia, and help us": that is a big thought.

W.B-w. He had in mind more than the colony.

J.T. The eunuch was a lone man. It does not say it was a voice from Abyssinia or Ethiopia. It is not a question of representing Ethiopia. I do not believe God had intended Ethiopia as a special field. He intended Europe as a special field, and the Macedonian man, I think, represents that.

Ques. Would you agree that the Ethiopian might serve to illustrate the grace of God that brings salvation to all men that believe?

J.T. He shows that God is no respecter of persons, and he is a typical one taken up there. We are told who he was, his office, and all that. He is not a man looking for help in that sense. He is reading the Scriptures and is taken up as a lone person and individual.

W.B-w. He went on his way rejoicing. We hear not a word of his forming an assembly in Ethiopia.

J.T. No, we do not, nor does he give us light as to what was formed in the easterly section of the world in apostolic times.

R.W.S. We do not look for so much in the States as in England and elsewhere.

J.T. The field here is evidently not so fertile in the mind of heaven. I think we ought to take that into account. If we see the actual facts of the case we know what to ask God about.

A.F.M. Is there anything defective in the country itself that bears on the law of progress in the testimony, the fact that its whole make-up is in the spirit of independency in a way, instead of helping one another?

J.S. While the light of God is at the present moment here, it is the result of the overflow from Europe. This is directly in keeping with what we have before us and the thought with regard to Japheth.

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J.T. I think so. There are fields, and heaven makes its own selection.

Rem. For instance, Australia and New Zealand are fields, but they are more productive in a sense than this country. It is wide in its hospitality and generous in that way, but it is founded on independency. In Australia and New Zealand there is much greater scope for the work of God.

J.T. Yes, quite so; where any people are marked by the word 'independence' or any sect marked by the word 'protest' it is not an advantage.

W.B-w. Do you think at the time of the declaration of independence they broke away from the idea of a colony? Would that have anything to do with it?

J.T. No doubt; they formed a new entity.

T.H. What about being in the chief city? Would you not like to be in a place to which such a man would go?.

J.T. Just so. God is not approaching this by the back door. He was going in the front, and God got the best out of it. That is the divine way; as the Lord says to Moses of Pharaoh, 'Stand in front of him'. What you get in chapter 17 is the rabble are against the truth and the chief women are for it. I believe that one weakness lately is that the material is largely drawn from what is called 'the lower classes'. I think God intends the rich and the poor. You get here a merchantess -- a seller of purple -- and a jailor. These are the two that stand out. When we come to the next section, Thessalonians, it was changed. The chief city of Thessalonica was a greater city than Philippi. So we get the chief women not a few, and the rabble are against the truth. Satan can use the rabble. There is no material of much value from it. They are a worthless kind of people that stand around the market place; they do nothing. They are alluded to in the next chapter. They do not work; they are busy-bodies. Well, here they are against the truth; whereas the chief women -- and

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we get them again in Berea, persons of the better class -- support the truth. God is making his own selection, His own material; He knows what He wants. What we have before us brings out the field and the material that God will have for special purposes.

C.A.M. The field contributes to the seed.

J.T. Yes; the field includes the seed. It is the kind of place where God's ordering is fruitful.

C.A.M. Referring to this matter of important cities, in the mercy of God they are scattered over England and the States and the colonies as a kind of cities of refuge that God has graciously provided. The reason I mention it is to emphasise what you were expressing about the importance of being in the right place. God has got some definite thoughts in His mind about each locality.

J.T. He has; what is in a place and what material is needed for the place. If there is to be anything in the way of an assembly, you have got to think of the place and what is needed for the place. Take Corinth where there was a very different state of things from what we are reading about here. What was needed there? It is evident that the material that was secured, proved to be very, very difficult to handle. The assembly at Corinth was not much more than eighteen months or twenty months old when the first epistle was written. We must bear that in mind, but the conditions found there in that very time after they were converted were distressing. We might say, There never should have been a meeting in Corinth, but then that will not do. There was an assembly at Corinth, and in spite of the awful things that were there, there must have been some wonderful material.

A.N.W. Then again there was Athens. Will you express your judgment as to where the converts in Athens stood with regard to assembly material, where would you place them? Apparently there was no assembly there.

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J.T. You cannot say. It does not appear that there was any guidance there at all. The apostle is apparently not ready to do anything until his co-workers, Timothy and Silas, come. He is waiting until they come. That is to remind us that in God's work we need sympathy and those who understand. He sends a message back and says, 'Tell them to hurry down', and while he is waiting for them, he took account of what was at Athens. That was what led to what he said, but the real object was Corinth. Athens was just an incident and the results are negligible because they are not pursued by the Spirit; God tells Paul what the Spirit of God has in mind for Philippi, Thessalonica, and Berea, and so the apostle will not do anything until he has these two brothers, Timothy and Silas.

J.S. Was Athens solely man's wisdom?

J.T. It would seem as though God did not require that field at all. It did not seem as though it were a field at all.

A.N.W. What do you suppose the converts did when the apostle went?

J.T. The fact is they were left; we just have to leave it at that; there was not much there to follow up.

C.A.M. We cannot make God take an interest in a place just because we want Him to.

A.N.W. They clung to Paul.

J.T. They clung to Paul, but there was no assembly formation there.

R.W.S. Do you think they went over and broke bread at Corinth?

J.T. I would not say that, but that was what they would have to do.

Ques. Do we not discern the principle that a small place may be fruitful in assembly material and a large city may be passed by? We cannot understand it; we can only accept it.

J.T. It is an allusion to sovereignty.

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N.MacC. There is not much for God in this great country. We have the desire that there should be.

J.T. Just so. It is remarkable how many cities there are in which God is not operating. What we are saying now is of the first importance as regards the work of God and the formation of assemblies. We must recognise sovereign movement in it.

Ques. Would the chief women indicate that God is the chief object of affection here now in the assembly?

J.T. Well, quite so. It was brought out in the selection God made in Thessalonica, the chief women not a few. They had already come under His influence; they were workers.

A.F.M. In verse 5 the Jews had been stirred to jealousy and had taken to themselves certain wicked men of the lowest rabble, as if the work of God did not affect them at all. You said something about that earlier.

J.T. They lend themselves to the enemy. He opposes.

Rem. I suppose there is no denying the fact that communism and the like comes from that class, so that in sovereignty it looks as though God puts a restraining influence on them. You have to leave much to the sovereignty of God, do you not?

J.T. You do. I think God recognises law and order. I have no doubt the Roman Empire was used of God to prepare the way and this colony was part of the Roman system. We are enjoined to pray for the authorities. I believe the legions laid the way for the gospel.

C.A.M. It is remarkable but there is nothing like Roman law.

J.T. This rabble would represent persons that were irresponsible, worthless.

W.B-w. In modern evangelisation, the evangelists usually go to the slums to preach. Is that not the principle in the world today? They think they get more

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results there. Do you think we should move more among the highest class?

J.T. Evangelisation is hardly the leading thought now. I believe the work of the Lord is largely the perfecting of the saints. Others have begun it. The lowest rabble here must not be identified with the poor. The Lord says, "to the poor the gospel is preached", Luke 7:22. The poor are not necessarily lawless people. That is a different idea, and God takes account of the poor. Paul said he always remembered the poor. The lowest rabble is another matter. It represents the element from whence comes communism, dissatisfied people and worthless people.

R.W.S. Is there a suggestion in Athens that there are just individuals, but in Philippi there are households -- not only individuals but households?

J.T. I think the household idea is of prime importance. It is a great feature in chapter 16 as the testimony comes into Europe. The household will not give dissatisfaction. The rabble will not come from there, that is, from where there is affection and love.

W.B-w. Is it specially important for getting assembly material?

J.T. I think law and order are of importance in that way. The household augments that, adding affection and that sort of thing.

R.A.L. What are the chief requisites for assembly material?

J.T. You see it here. Lydia has a heart; she is not a gossiper; she is a business woman and a seller of purple; yet she is such a person as can attend to the Lord's things. There is something there that gives the Lord right of way in her soul.

Rem. She worshipped God, it says.

J.T. Quite so; I think she represents excellent assembly material, the very best you can get.

J.S. Opening her heart would give the Lord the right of way in her household, would it not?

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J.T. That is it; first her heart and then her house. She says, "If ye", putting the matter on the apostles, "have judged me to be faithful to the Lord".

W.B-w. Do you think in being baptised she attended to the things of Peter; now she has the assembly line of Paul?

J.T. The Lord had that in mind, but He opened her heart for that very purpose.

J.T.Jr. It says of the Jews that they and certain men of the lowest rabble beset the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people. Would not the enemy act on these lines today to deprive the assembly of right material?

A.N.W. I thought it was remarkable that Saul had been doing this kind of work, going into houses.

J.T. That is very interesting. What Paul found in Jerusalem when he went into the houses! How he would recall what these houses were! These men of whom it is said, "ye have condemned, ye have killed the just; he does not resist you", James 5:6. That is what Paul found, and when he went into Lydia's house, what restfulness there would be!

A.N.W. It is striking how the term "assembly" is used precisely in connection with the matter spoken of. It was the assembly, yet he went into houses dragging out men and women.

J.T. In the jailor's house, it is noticeable that the jailor brought Paul and Silas into his house, and laid the table; what beautiful touches these were, the washing of the stripes and the laying of the table! I think the allusion is to what is seemly amongst christians. The rabble is the opposite of this, where there is no sense of decency or order; whereas these things should be found in a believer's house.

N.MacC. We have been in our locality for two or three years and there has not been much addition. We are apt to have thoughts about that as to the place. Are we just right in being here?

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J.T. I believe there is a certain answer in this section. There were these women there and Lydia's heart is opened, but still we have many days in verse 18. In verse 17 it says the woman with the spirit of Python followed Paul, and this she did many days. I think your question would fit in here. Why should there be this "many"? Here are Paul and Luke and Silas and Timothy and these women that have been praying for a long time. What is the outcome of it all? Here we are and we are going to prayer, and this woman meets us. There is a hard state of things; and she did this for many days. We do not know how many.

Ques. Would you think we had better clear out, we have been here for three years with no additions?

J.T. I was going to remark that it is a question as to whether there is anything for God in what there is there. You do not need to look for numbers if there is quality or something there for God week by week. It is a great matter. It is like a stronghold held for Christ.

Rem. One would suggest for the comfort of our brother that one can think of places that have gone for many years, and then all of a sudden the Lord has begun a work there and results have come about. Is it not a question of being cast on the Lord for intelligence in this matter?

J.T. How much there is to be wrought in us! Are we equal to any work of God in a place? It may be that we need to be wrought in ourselves. When we feel the thing before God, prayer goes up to God in deep feeling. There may be something in that.

H.A.S. The scripture tells us that in due season we shall reap if we faint not.

J.T. We have to remember that our times are difficult times, and we have to accept that.

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ASSEMBLY MATERIAL (2)

Philippians 1:1 - 11; 1 Thessalonians 1:1 - 10

J.T. Perhaps we should begin with Thessalonians.

A.N.W. Are you suggesting that it is a younger assembly?

J.T. Yes; we have had much as to Philippi this afternoon, and I think this epistle is intended to show how results may be quick from divine sowing, may be early. Philippians will show purity and depth, but Thessalonians is intended to show how in certain fields there are quick results; in others, they are slower.

A.N.W. Why is it that there is a small slight put on them in the Acts?

J.T. You mean the Bereans were more noble? Of course that would not allude to the saints; that would rather allude to the Thessalonians as such, but still it gives us a clue as to the characteristics of the place and the people. The Bereans were an inquiring people, a people that would look into things and prove them and have them confirmed -- a very important feature.

T.H. Are you alluding to the quick results because of the apostle's having been there only three Sabbath days?

J.T. Yes; it was a very short period of service. The results were rapid -- rapid growth. We get that in agriculture.

C.A.M. You were alluding this afternoon to the matter of soil, and you have just made reference to the matter of agriculture. Do you propose to look at it as growth in this connection?

J.T. Yes; as to the soil yielding quickly.

C.A.M. It has another setting, too. We were considering it as a stronghold gained for God. Does the thought of conquest enter into it?

J.T. Thessalonians or Philippians?

C.A.M. I was really referring to the line we were

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pursuing this afternoon, God getting the best of the conflict; the enemy has a power established in a way, and God comes in and gets the victory. Do you look at it like that?

J.T. Yes, I do.

A.F.M. Would an example of quick results be seen in John 4? as if the Lord sowed and the results were almost immediate -- many of the Samaritans believed on Him.

J.T. That is a good example.

H.A.S. It is remarkable that in floriculture, quick growth is brought about by a warm moist atmosphere. That is what we need in divine things, an atmosphere of warmth and love.

A.N.W. Referring to John 4, what was meant by the harvests being white?

J.T. Well, I think there was much there from Old Testament sowing. That is what the Lord alludes to, corresponding with our own times. The Spirit of God has our own times in mind in John, times when there is much result from earlier sowing.

A.F.M. There was no particular welcome from their houses in John 4. The Lord stayed there two days, but there was no response to the testimony as there was in the place before us this afternoon.

J.T. There is nothing said about households in Samaria; where He stayed, we do not know. The testimony often has very poor housing, while there may be evangelical work carried on. I believe that has marked christianity for centuries. It has had very little household protection; whereas there has been considerable evangelisation. What the Lord is looking for now is household accommodation. That is what David thought of, and that is what we should think of -- household accommodation for the testimony. David thought of it, and was reminded of it when the house of Obed-edom was blessed because of that. He would

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build an house of habitation for the mighty God of Jacob.

A.N.W. I wondered whether the light as regards baptism would help in that regard.

J.T. I think it has. The Lord has been helping the brethren in the last forty years on the line of the households, and I believe the truth as a whole has gained enormously through it; the testimony is housed in a brother's house, and those who represent the Lord, make way for the assembly.

C.A.M. The reference to Samaria that there were no households mentioned and what you said about it helps. There is nothing to build on in certain areas where evangelisation has been carried on but where there has been no holding to basic things, and where things are confused as in Samaria.

J.T. In the evangelical effort of the past seventy-five years, since 1859, extending back to Whitfield and Wesley and carried down to modern times in Moody and Sankey, there has been no thought of housing the testimony; that is what resulted immediately here at Philippi. It is not prominent in Thessalonica; it is not mentioned: but it is well to keep it before us in our inquiry now. Assembly material and assembly formation and household accommodation for the testimony as in the assembly all require households, believers' households.

J.S. Would not material for the testimony be largely secured from the household?

J.T. I think it is. That is how it comes now and the provision of accommodation in households in a locality where there is to be a meeting, or where there is a meeting, for those who represent the Lord in a special way, is an immense service and leads to the full thought of the household itself in the assembly where the work is housed.

F.H.L. Would Lydia and the honourable women

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suggest the subjective work in love, which would be a principle in connection with that?

J.T. I think that is right. The woman is largely the one who graces the house and makes provision for entertaining the Lord's servants, and I believe in a new meeting or in any meeting, that the assembly position is immensely augmented by hospitable households.

A.F.M. Do you not think that what Aquila and Priscilla did for Apollos, taking him home and helping him there, is a principle; we can all speak of being helped in houses, being invited there through affection and personal interest, and it has been more to us perhaps than a good address?

J.S. At the beginning, it would appear that the enemy's attacks were largely on households.

J.T. As was remarked this afternoon, they beset the house of Jason. That would be the enemy's effort to get rid of that house and damage it; so that hospitality, I believe, is opened up particularly in Acts 16, and runs on. Hospitality is intended to augment the assembly, so that in the end of chapter 16, the apostles went to Lydia's, as if to honour the hospitality there.

J.S. Would the goodness of God be seen in the addition to households, in that way?

J.T. You can see how much opportunity there is for the goodness of God in a man's household; how it becomes an opportunity for God to show His goodness, what the house is as for Him, what there is for God in it. A reading is held and there is morning prayer and the altar, and the smoke of the man's altar ascends every morning. It is a wonderful thing for heaven; I am sure of that.

A.N.W. It is particularly interesting in Philippi in connection with Lydia and the jailor because there is a large spoil in each. It does not say that Lydia was married, but she had a house; it is that that was very important.

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C.A.M. The daily maintenance of the morning and evening sacrifice, as you were mentioning, seems almost to require household conditions. It must add greatly to a place.

J.T. I am afraid that it is very much neglected, I mean, the morning and evening oblation and lamb.

C.A.M. I think the emphasis that has been laid on it, the recent emphasis, has probably had a very great effect on households.

J.T. Now coming to Thessalonica, there is a suggestion of quick results, but then quick results may not be so stable, and the second epistle to the Thessalonians would show that they were in danger of being easily shaken by the enemy and easily turned aside and damaged by various things being brought to them, but we get the lovely side of youthfulness in the Thessalonians. They were said to be in God the Father.

J.S. How do you view that?

J.T. I think it refers to the delightful freshness of youth in God the Father. It meant they were in the Father's affections. You do not get it just that way in any other epistle.

A.N.W. How long after the first was the second writing, for they are also called there "in God our Father"?

J.T. It was not very long. They still retain their freshness, but they have been shaken a bit, and the epistle, of course, is to steady them in respect of the coming of Christ and the day of the Lord. That line of instruction is very important now when we are apt to turn aside on current happenings and the fulfilment of prophecy, so the apostle makes it very plain that the great falling away that is to come is before the man of sin appears.

C.A.M. Does the mention of the Father imply that these are the little ones?

J.T. Well, they were youthful believers, but very

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fresh and vigorous and intelligent, too. That is what is in mind, I think.

J.E.H. The statement that they had turned to God from idols is very beautiful. It shows they had great light about God in their souls to turn to Him.

J.T. You will notice the very idea of God, the word and title, is very frequent in this epistle.

A.F.M. It is Roman-like in character. In the second epistle, had the hope of that day in their hearts become dim? It is not mentioned at the beginning of the second epistle. Is that because they were shaken?

J.T. I suppose so. They were thinking of the day of the Lord. They were rendered fearful, and necessarily they were darkened, I suppose.

R.W.S. They were spoken of as being imitators. Was that good?

J.T. That is the point I think we should notice in a young assembly. "And ye became our imitators, and of the Lord, having accepted the word in much tribulation with joy of the Holy Spirit, so that ye became models to all that believe". They became imitators of Paul, and later it says, "For ye, brethren, have become imitators of the assemblies of God which are in Judaea in Christ Jesus", 1 Thessalonians 2:14. That is an important part of the instruction, for youthful christians, or a youthful assembly, to be imitators of Paul, and then of the Lord, and then of the assemblies at a distance, the assemblies in Judaea; it meant that they were not national in their feelings; they picked their model from a distance, the assemblies that were most likely to be according to the mind of God, those in Judaea at that time.

C.A.M. This word is not used as we sometimes use it. This was a dignified following of a model.

J.T. It is good when the model that you are following is right, especially when it begins with Paul and then goes on to the Lord. It shows that it is on the up line; I am not being damaged by it.

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J.S. How far would it go? Would you not begin with a work and then take on character with respect to order in the assembly?

J.T. I think first Paul; what he was, and the kind of man he was, because it is said he went in among them (Acts 17:2). He did not go in, in any official dignity or stiffness; he was as one of them. They would thus be impressed with the kind of man he was, and how he carried on his service. I am sure it is well for every young christian to pay attention to those that are more spiritual than he is. That is the divine thought, but then that leads upward from Paul to the Lord; they had a higher Model, and that is always safe.

A.R. That would save them from being mere copyists.

J.T. When you think of the ascending thought -- from Paul to the Lord.

J.T.Jr. It speaks in verse 10 of how he had conducted himself. "Ye are witnesses, and God, how piously and righteously and blamelessly we have conducted ourselves with you that believe". Would that be the model that they would follow?

J.T. Well, exactly; that is what they saw. They were impressed by that. It is a very good sign when a young christian says, 'I would like to be a brother or sister like that'. A godly sister or brother commands their respect, and it is right to follow in their steps to a point, but there is more than that. There is a greater Model than that, but it leads up in that direction.

A.F.M. No brother or sister can take you beyond where he is spiritually, so you must necessarily look to some One higher.

A.N.W. He says "but have been gentle in the midst of you, as a nurse would cherish her own children" and then he says "as a father his own children". There would be a combination of nurse and father.

J.T. "As a nurse would cherish her own children"; that makes it more touching. That was what marked

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him; so there was a great deal to imitate with safety.

F.H.L. He was there three sabbaths, and he speaks of their work of faith and labour of love and enduring constancy of hope, as if there was progress in answer to that service, perfect testimony in that regard.

J.T. Quite.

R.W.S. What impression did this youthful assembly have of the Lord and of God the Father as over against the Philippians?

J.T. The Philippians would be more mature, representing, I think, the heavenly side, having capability for the heavenly side. The Thessalonians represent the younger thought of the assembly here. They have been called cabbages; that is, they grow up in the place; they are distinctly local. They are the assembly which is at Thessalonica; they are purely local to the place; it was a large place, I think, the capital of the country. They had their own national characteristics as in the city, but they were the assembly of the Thessalonians. They were distinctly local; they were not imported; and they were taken out of the place, a distinct movement of God in the place.

J.S. Does that not show that the soil was good?

J.T. It was an excellent field for a quick growth.

J.S. You not only require good soil but favourable conditions, sunshine and rain.

J.T. Just so; Paul was evidently there in a different way from what he had been at Philippi. At Philippi his sufferings were immeasurable, beyond words. He refers to it later. At Thessalonica he went in amongst them as one of them as his custom was. He just went into the synagogue "and on three sabbaths reasoned with them from the scriptures, opening and laying down that the Christ must have suffered and risen up from among the dead" (Acts 17:2,3); they must have seen a great deal of him in those three weeks.

A.R. It says he reasoned with them. He would not be the kind of man that would dominate the meeting.

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J.T. He would give them to understand that he was one of them. I believe the idea was that they should see as much as possible of him.

C,A.M. I think the matter of distinctiveness is very impressive. They were quite youthful, but there was nothing distinctive at the start, was there?

J.T. The work began in the synagogue; it does not say what the setting in their houses was, but I think coming in among them is to be noticed. There is a suggestion of mutual feeling in that he was among them.

A.F.M. Would the father and the nurse idea be very prominent as he was among them? The nurse and also the character and instruction of the father would be required in this setting.

J.T. I think so. I think the apostle would know before long as at Corinth and Philippi, what was needed in the place. That is one feature of the levite's work, the knowledge of what is needed in the place. At Corinth he says, "For I did not judge it well to know anything among you save Jesus Christ, and him crucified" (1 Corinthians 2:2), and he dwells rather on the way he spoke and how he ministered, but I believe he saw that the Thessalonians needed fatherly and motherly nursing care and that the minister himself needed to get as near as possible to the converts, so that those ministered to would understand that he was one of them, and not far away. I believe he put much time among them in that way, showing himself so that they might know the divine thought as exhibited in him.

J.S. In the way of love and care for them.

J.T. Quite; that is what the Lord would impress on us as we deal with the young, the elder brethren need to be amongst them to get them to understand that they are not beyond them and stiff, but that they want the younger ones alongside of them. They should get to their side of matters.

J.S. In result, they turn to God.

J.T. The point was God was there. They grasped

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the divine thought exhibited in the minister, that God was working in Paul. It is that kind of thing.

T.H. Would you mind helping us in relation to Philippians? The letter was addressed to the saints, the overseers and the ministers at Philippi, but that to the Thessalonians was to the assembly there.

J.T. That is an important question. There are no allusions in Corinthians, either, to the official side; it is left out. Unless there is plenty of love, it is very dangerous to make eldership prominent. It just establishes a hierarchy; so the point in Corinthians is the assembly. You can understand those big men at Corinth saying, You are an elder. How pleased they would be and how they would use it!

J.S. Officially?

A.F.M. But it is all right at Philippi?

J.T. Yes; it is safe enough at Philippi. The elders are overseers and ministers.

J.S. He associates himself with Timotheus and Silvanus, does he not? There is a brotherly element there.

J.T. These two men were known there, too; they were with Paul in the ministry there.

W.B-w. Timothy was the product of a household. He would be a model as coming from a godly house.

J.T. I think the apostle Paul would make a point of it at Thessalonica, a special point of brethren having others in their houses and talking to them about things. He would be very sociable. I am sure there was not a more simple man in the whole world in that respect.

C.A.M. It is an interesting thing that the young become like what they see most of and we do well to have a good model brought into our households because otherwise the young will come out wrong. They always become like what they look at all the time.

J.T. The divine thought is that the elder brethren are to be models to the flock, that they go in among

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them. That is the very word used at Thessalonica -- he went in among them. You do not get it elsewhere.

A.N.W. His ministry would be quite in keeping with what he was himself. He spoke of the suffering side.

J.T. Yes; he would exhibit it in his own body, what he had just suffered at Philippi, "the brands of the Lord Jesus". What a fine time it must have been to sit down for a meeting with the apostle Paul and Silas and Timothy, to hear how the jailor laid the table for them at Philippi, or what they saw and how they saw it!

W.B-w. At the jailor's house in Philippi, there were about three meetings before morning. First when the jailor was saved, and then it says he spoke to them the word of the Lord, then there was the baptism meeting -- the three would be between midnight and morning.

J.T. That looks to be right. We should not hesitate to sit up all night if the Spirit of God is working or if there is anything like this. Think of what the Lord endured immediately before the cross; the whole night was occupied. John's account would mean that a great deal of time was taken up with the disciples. What a time they had with the Lord!

C.A.M. It was not an entire night he spent; it was until break of day. That seems to have been the point.

J.T. At Troas? -- just so.

A.N.W. In speaking to the elders at Ephesus, he says "night and day". "Remembering that for three years, night and day, I ceased not admonishing each one of you with tears", Acts 20:31.

J.T. Quite so; and he went from house to house.

C.A.M. It is wonderful all he gets in; you cannot understand a man doing it.

J.T. I remember seeing an account of Mr. Darby's setting forth at night to give an address on prophecy. They did not stop at nine o'clock in those days, but that only points to the spiritual energy there was. I am not

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advocating long meetings at all, because we are not equal to them. 1 Corinthians rather stresses brevity in ministry, but where you get long meetings like Acts 20 it is to call attention to the energy there was. That is what comes out here -- the night and day exercise.

J.H.E. You see that in connection with the Lord and the two on the way to Emmaus. He would have gone on further with them.

J.T. Yes quite; He was not tired, but then they were not either for after they saw Him they went back to the city. That would be 15 miles, I believe.

J.S. And they found the eleven.

J.T. Yes; they did not go to a hotel; they went and found the saints. You would like to see the brethren sacrificing to attend meetings; then you will get good meetings, because the Lord takes account of the sacrifice.

J.E.H. I suppose these Thessalonians were waiting for the break of day, awaiting His Son from heaven. Is that your thought?

J.T. Just so; that is stressed here throughout this epistle. You have the coming of the Lord right through in that chapter. I suppose it is suggestive that the young believers need that side of the truth. They need to have the hope of the coming of the Lord.

A.N.W. Is it not the only assembly favoured with the ministry of the rapture?

J.T. Yes; it is the only one.

R.W.S. Is it a handicap in taking up assembly status to have material which is youthful as to age or in the knowledge of God?

J.T. Well, it is certainly no handicap if they are Thessalonians. They are material needed. Of course Philippians gives the other side, the overseers and deacons; they give the mature side. Thessalonian christians were fresh and delightful to God.

J.E.H. Would you have to wait for overseers and deacons before starting a meeting?

J.T. No, I do not believe you have to wait for them

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to start a meeting. You must have the meeting before you look for the overseers and deacons; that is where they come in as necessary. Having the meeting first is what you get in chapter 14. They established the meetings and then they came back again and chose them elders in each of them.

J.S. You must have the thing first.

J.T. Quite so; the meeting first.

N.MacC. Elders, bishops and overseers are the product of the meeting.

J.T. That is right; this gives provision for the assembly after the meeting is there; do not look for elders before you have the meeting there.

F.H.L. There is no question of age with these Thessalonians. Are we not too apt to think of age; whereas the thought is spiritual status?

J.T. That is right -- Thessalonian cabbages, local growths but normal growths, quick growths; then you may be sure the elders will come into place. God provides what is needed.

T.H. It says of Aaron that "he may minister unto me in the priest's office" (Exodus 28:3), suggesting the office was there before the priest came into it.

J.T. That looks to be all right. The office was filled first of all by the youths in Israel. Exodus 24 says the youths offered the offerings on that great day. That was the office of the priesthood, but chapter 28 says, Now we must have the clothing suited to the priest.

N.MacC. We must be careful in checking youthful activity.

J.T. Very very careful not to check it. We can guide it and set it a good example, but let there be growth, room for growth.

W.B-w. That is the idea of the father and mother.

Ques. Why does he say, "Let no man despise thy youth" 1 Timothy 4:12?

J.T. That was for Timothy to see that he did not

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give way to youthful pranks; that he should commend himself by sobriety. A young brother should see that he does not take too much liberty and forget the sobriety becoming to the things of God.

W.B-w. You referred to fellowship when you opened up Philippians. There is no scripture to tell us that they sought fellowship from other meetings. Paul evidently kept on opening meetings like that.

J.T. There was not much of it. Of course the power was so great, and then it is beautiful to see here that they imitated an assembly so far away in Judaea, these christians at Thessalonica.

A.N.W. How do you suppose they did that practically? I can understand a brother imitating a godly brother, but how can an assembly imitate another assembly practically?

J.T. That just brings up the actual state of things! The difficulty was great, but they overcame it. They must have made inquiry as to what the local procedure was in Judaea. It does not say Jerusalem; that would make it too metropolitan. It is rather that they were overcoming natural prejudices. As a gentile company they had no prejudice as regards the Jews. They were free from that. No doubt the apostle Paul could have given them information. I can understand a Thessalonian brother saying, Well now, how do they do in Jerusalem? And the apostle would tell them, That is how it was done.

J.S. That would be very necessary, for the work must be co-ordinated.

J.T. This was to maintain the universal thought, the unity of the Spirit and the uniting bond of peace.

A.R. We may not be national in our attitude but we might be local.

J.T. We might, indeed. I think we ought to be glad to imitate any good thing. If the brethren in London or any other large place have anything there in their procedure that we have not, why should we

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not take it on, proving it to be of God? It tends to maintain universality.

A.R.S. Why not use the word "adopt" instead of imitate?

J.T. If you love the brethren you are glad to be linked on with them. To adopt a thing leaves out the person from whom you get it. You leave out the promotion of love in your relation with others. Love is promoted. I value them and link on all the more with them.

Rem. At Philippi, the girl that had the spirit of Python imitated, in a way.

J.T. She was prophetic. In a way, this principle of imitation may be followed wrongly and it may be followed rightly. It is being followed rightly here. It is where you link on with the person you are imitating; so the Thessalonians valued the assemblies of Judaea; they took on their way of doing things and were all the more joined up with them. It has been very beautiful during the past few years to see how the Holy Spirit brings out a thing, how the brethren take it on and how we seem to be drawn together more by it.

A.R. This imitating the saints at Jerusalem would be the result of Paul's being among them. If we had Paul in our meetings, it would have the effect of uniting us all as to what we are doing in each locality.

J.T. I suppose what they saw in Paul was to show there was no doubt as to what prevailed in Judaea.

Rem. Judaea had extended fellowship to Samaria; they sent down Peter and John, and then they sent out Barnabas to Antioch.

A.F.M. What are you going to say about Philippi?

J.T. We have already explained it, I think. It brings out not only the mature side, the official side in the overseers, but the Philippians were capable of the heavenly side of the truth. They were ready to take on the heavenly side of Paul's ministry to them and it shows how he himself was controlled by that; "to

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know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being conformed to his death, if any way I arrive at the resurrection from among the dead. Not that I have already obtained the prize, or am already perfected; but I pursue, if also I may get possession of it, seeing that also I have been taken possession of by Christ Jesus", Philippians 3:10 - 12. They were called to that, and had had the Lord brought before them: "let this mind be in you", Philippians 2:5. Paul had ministered some of the greatest thoughts about Jesus: the downstooping, the mind that was in Christ Jesus. They were capable of taking it on and the apostle's exercises were that they might prove that this is the great result. In writing to them he would lead them up to the highest thoughts of christianity, and he bases all that on the fact that he had them in remembrance. They were sympathetic with the gospel from the first day. They continued on and were not turned aside like the Thessalonians. Young christians are apt to be turned aside easily; the Philippians were not.

C.A.M. He brings himself before the Thessalonians as a minister whereas he seems almost like a priest as he speaks of the wonderful things to the Philippians.

J.T. He does not address them as an apostle. He says, "Paul and Timotheus, bondmen". He is a bondman amongst them at Philippi. I think he is very deferential to them in calling himself a bondman. He goes on to say, "I thank my God for my whole remembrance of you, constantly in my every supplication, making the supplication for you all with joy, because of your fellowship with the gospel, from the first day until now". And then he says he had confidence in them that what God had begun He would perfect.

Ques. Would He not lead them up to the thought of Christ? -- "let this mind be in you".

J.T. "Bondman" is really that mind in the apostle.

A.R. When he speaks of your fellowship, what

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would that be? Would it have incorporated Paul's ministry in it, or the glad tidings?

J.T. I think so. I do not think it would be the ministry of the assembly. It is just the glad tidings. They were the pillar and base of the truth. They correspond to what the assembly is here in relation to the testimony.

A.F.M. Would the Philippians be intelligent as to where the epistle to the Ephesians would bring us?

J.T. I think so; they are a counterpart of Ephesians. I think we may read the two epistles together.

J.H.E. Would not Ephesians be like a holy priesthood going in and this be a royal priesthood coming out?

J.T. Yes; it is practical christianity on its highest level.

W.B-w. Why does he not address the assembly of God at Philippi as he does that at Corinth?

J.T. I think it is because they are nearer to heaven. It is the heavenly side. The persons are more in mind; it is the same at Ephesus.

J.E.H. Why did he address them as "O Philippians" (Philippians 4:15) in the last chapter?

J.T. It is an exhibition of feeling. He says, "O ye Corinthians" (2 Corinthians 6:11), but I think he is on a higher level in saying "O Philippians". They had a great place in his heart. If you looked in Paul's heart, you would see how each assembly had its own place in his heart.

Rem. "Written in our hearts, known and read of all men", 2 Corinthians 3:2.

T.H. They ministered to him at Thessalonica.

W.B-w. What are those things that are more excellent?

J.T. Well, whatever they are. The idea is to get on to the best. Do not miss the best, whatever it is.

J.S. I suppose it is to show how the Philippians had been delivered from earthly things and therefore are led on to heavenly things.

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PRIESTHOOD (1)

1 Samuel 1:9 - 18, 24 - 28; 1 Samuel 2:1 - 10; 1 Samuel 7:5 - 11

J.T. This book calls for a change of priesthood and, whilst the priesthood that is brought in does not formally replace Eli and his house, it does so in principle. So there is a striking analogy between this book and the inauguration of christianity inclusive of the incarnation. Priesthood appeared in the same way, not at first officially but nevertheless in reality, and in due course the official priest came into evidence. The brethren will see that there is great practical instruction in all this as making the way for younger believers who might hesitate at the thought of priesthood attaching to them. They need not shrink from it but should understand that it is essential to the prosperity and continuance of the testimony that they take it up. It begins in Hannah, that is, in a sister in this book; then it is seen in Samuel and more particularly, as to what is in mind, in David. In David it links on directly with the New Testament for it says: "For it is clear that our Lord has sprung out of Juda" (Hebrews 7:14), although Moses had said nothing about priesthood as attaching to that tribe. The change of the priesthood, and the fact that it is seen in David in this book, points to Christ who sprang out of Juda, and to whom now the priesthood belongs; but it began in Him not formally, not officially.

E.G.McA. Is the priesthood seen here in Hannah, in the offering that she offered to the Lord in Samuel?

J.T. First of all in her prayer. The Spirit of God gives it very briefly in chapter 1, verses 10,11: "And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed to Jehovah, and wept much. And she vowed a vow, and said, O Jehovah of hosts, if thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of thy handmaid, and remember me, and not forget thy handmaid, but wilt give unto thy handmaid a man

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child, then I will give him to Jehovah all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head". Then it says, "And it came to pass as she continued praying ..." We are not told how long she continued but we see from this that priestly exercises and services may go on amongst the people of God without any show, but nevertheless in true reality.

E.G.McA. Hannah felt with God in the breakdown of the priesthood as seen in Eli.

J.T. There cannot be a doubt that she would have a judgment about it. Whether she understood it fully or not, her prayer, and how she prayed, and the result, show that she was providing for what was needed.

J.D. Verse 9 says: "And Hannah rose up after they had eaten in Shiloh, and after they had drunk; (now Eli the priest sat upon the seat by the doorpost of the temple of Jehovah;) and she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed to Jehovah, and wept much". God had Hannah in mind and her state was agreeable to Him; and so light comes in.

J.T. There was a new beginning without any ostentation, and Eli is brought in in the parentheses very significantly. "Now Eli the priest sat ..." He was not doing anything. He sat; he was lazy. There was no thought that priests were to sit in the house of God.

J.W.D. "... and there shall no razor come upon his head". Do you think Hannah apprehended a deficiency in connection with Eli?

J.T. That is what I thought. This man child, as she calls him, was not to be brought up for her honour. The growth of hair on the man would mean that he was not asserting himself on natural lines at all. He was not like Absalom who would poll his hair every year and make much of that. As the apostle says: "for when I am weak, then I am powerful", 2 Corinthians 12:10.

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E.H.T. Do you think Hannah was a woman who pondered things in her heart as to the situation?

J.T. She was "a woman of a sorrowful spirit", and it arose from the fact that she was under governmental restrictions. Jehovah had not given her children. She was suffering governmentally and the whole nation was suffering governmentally, and her prayer expresses the exercise that rose up in those circumstances. She is like any brother or sister who thinks for God when things are not right. She is going through things secretly.

J.D. It is wise to accept the governmental dealings of God without getting into despair.

J.T. It was acute in Hannah's case. God was preventing what she so ardently desired, a male child, a man according to God, not according to human ambition, but according to God, in weakness and dependence.

J.D. Would the idea be in Matthew, that the Lord accepts the governmental ordering of God with the whole nation and identifies Himself with them in the way out?

J.T. I think so. He identifies Himself with a repentant remnant: "for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness", Matthew 3:15.

W.B. Is the whole nation in your mind at this point as needing a change in the priesthood?

J.T. Yes; God has revived among His people the true thought of priesthood, as over against the priesthood according to man that prevails in christendom.

G.A.T. You said last night that what was official did not recognise what was real. Eli would criticise what was real. I thought in considering a locality, that God might raise up amongst us those that are real and yet might not be much in appearance, and those who are not real might criticise such.

J.T. "Eli the priest sat upon the seat by the doorpost of the temple of Jehovah". Who made that seat we do

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not know. There was no provision for it in the specifications of the tabernacle. He is observing this woman. Why did he not observe his sons in this way? They were flagrant in their conduct right before him, even in the temple at Shiloh. Why did he notice this woman so carefully? It says in verse 12: "And it came to pass as she continued praying before Jehovah, that Eli marked her mouth". It would seem that he was looking for evil and was ready to impute it.

E.G.McA. It is outside of his own family.

J.T. That is not a priestly act. A priest ought to look for evil if there is some evidence of it, but not otherwise.

G.A.T. If he were spiritual, he would not be thinking along those lines.

J.T. It is very difficult to see how you could impute evil to a woman because of the movement of her lips. Although a sister is to be silent in the assembly, that does not mean she is not to pray in the assembly. Why should she not pray in her heart and move her lips? That would not necessarily mean that she made a sound.

J.D. That he misjudged her witnesses to how far Eli had departed from the mind of God.

J.T. You are tested by such circumstances as to how your mind is running.

S.McC. Apart from the flagrant conditions connected with Eli's house, was there not something lacking in Eli himself? He is of the family of Ithamar but Eleazar is the line to which God had committed Himself and which is reinstated under Solomon's ministry.

J.T. That is very important. Eleazar and Ithamar had had real experience themselves. They are called the priests that were left. Ithamar's posterity ought not to be wanting for he had had experience and served well as far as we can see, although Eleazar had the great promises and was made high priest afterwards. It is remarkable how God sets limits in the beginning

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that ought to have worked out as real experience in the posterity.

G.W.H. In the crisis, in which the governmental dealings of God are evident, the wife of Phinehas collapsed (1 Samuel 4:19 - 22), but Hannah goes forward constructively.

J.T. Yes. Chapter 2 brings out the powerful spirit of priesthood in her, issuing in poetic and prophetic form. It is called a prayer but it is really a spiritual celebration.

J.W.D. Would there be an analogy in principle between this and Paul travailing in birth in the epistle to the Galatians?

J.T. Yes, the idea of travail is constantly used throughout Scripture.

F.R.A. What is the difference between this and Cain's birth? Eve says, "I have acquired a man with Jehovah", Genesis 4:1.

J.T. Eve's remark is significant too, because she says, "I have acquired a man with Jehovah". That is, she acquired him with the help of God. She is the first person to use the term 'Jehovah', and it seems as if there is some light in her soul. She had never seen a babe; the only male she had seen was Adam and he was never a babe. He was a man when he was formed. She would have in mind that that is what God intended. A babe brings out the weakness of the position, but the great result is a man. In truth, every male that is born has manhood in prospect. I believe Eve had that thought.

J.D. Do you think it would be too much to say that Hannah had real priestly feelings here? In her reply to Eli she says: "No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before Jehovah. Take not thy handmaid for a daughter of Belial: for out of the abundance of my grief and provocation have I spoken hitherto". It is the result of having witnessed the breakdown of everything in connection

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with what was official, and God takes account of that.

J.T. Whatever her intelligence may have been, the instincts were there that fitted in with the current need. Similarly Jacob, when he supplanted Esau, could not have told you why he did it. The mind of God proceeds not only through acquired knowledge in His people, but through instinct.

E.G.McA. Priestly instincts and feelings may not be able to perfectly analyse the situation, but they lead Godward.

J.T. The exercises of Hannah here answered in result to the mind of God.

S.McC. In connection with what you were saying as to priesthood finding expression in poetic form, would there not be an analogy between what we have here and the opening chapters of Luke in that priesthood there finds poetic expression?

J.T. The analogy between Hannah and the mother of our Lord is very remarkable. The official priest there is dumb.

J.B. Eli answered Hannah: "Go in peace; and the God of Israel grant thee thy petition which thou hast asked of him". Would not that confirm Hannah?

J.T. It would. Eli had some right instincts too. But it is helpful to bring Luke in here because it shows how God sets aside the official priest, bringing in dumbness. In the meantime we have Mary introduced. She corresponds with Hannah; she is able to speak as to what is inside her. "My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour", Luke 1:46,47. All that she says is mainly the outcome of formation. Elizabeth is said to be filled with the Spirit. Formation in Hannah is shown by her poetic production. You cannot write poetically except by a sense of balance, and you understand the features that you can call upon: "all that is within me", Psalm 103:1. The analysis of Romans 7 enables us to understand what there is within us that can be used in the worship of God.

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J.D. The instinct has begun to take shape intelligently when she says: "I will wait until the child is weaned". It was after that that she went up with the bullocks and the flour and the wine. She would not identify herself with the official thing.

J.T. That is beautiful. Any parent that brings his child into the assembly and thinks he is controlling there, is unintelligent to say the least. The intelligent person says, Now the child is to be developed from Christ the Head. All in the assembly must be of Christ and for Christ. I believe that is spiritually the thought in weaning.

E.G.McA. That is the day she had looked forward to -- when he would rely upon God for his resources.

J.T. "And the woman abode, and gave her son suck ...". That is the proper nourishment up to a point but not beyond that point. She nursed him and then she weaned him.

J.W.D. It was the nursing of such a mother.

J.T. Yes. What a constitution she would impart!

G.A.T. Would you look for such a spirit among sisters today that this exercise would be found amongst them, that their offspring might be brought in as material for the assembly?

J.T. Quite so. The refusal of the razor means that. The kind of constitution that the child is to have is received from the mother up to a point, but henceforth he is to be for God.

E.G.McA. The child receives nourishment up to a point from its mother. He would receive the kind of nourishment that would move him into the house of God and produce an appreciation of the body of Christ. Hannah would nourish her child, not that he might shine here, but that his constitution might develop along spiritual lines.

J.T. The formula nowadays for bringing up babies is modernism. Maternal feeding is the primary thought; by extension of thought it is what is of God in the

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mother handed on, as it was to Timothy. It says, "And she took him up with her when she had weaned him, with three bullocks, and one ephah of flour, and a flask of wine, and brought him to the house of Jehovah to Shiloh; and the boy was young". (Notice the word 'boy' is used, not 'child'. This implies potentiality. If he were eating manna, he would have the same measure as his father or mother had.) "And she said, Oh my lord, as thy soul liveth, my lord, I am the woman that stood by thee here to pray to Jehovah. For this boy I prayed; and Jehovah has granted me my petition which I asked of him. And also I have lent him to Jehovah: all the days that he lives, he is lent to Jehovah".

J.D. Speaking of Hannah's intelligence, it says, "... then will I bring him, that he may appear before Jehovah, and there abide for ever". Do you think that would be the end of all priestly work that the saints might appear there?

J.T. "Appear before Jehovah, and there abide for ever", do you mean? Quite so. The word "lent" here means that it is a definite transaction, a committal; as if to say, I have handed him over, but as weaned, because the weaning enters into that. Hannah had fully developed thoughts in her mind. This is not a mere childish movement. It is not the movement of a mother who would make much of her boy -- my boy is going to shine. He is not her boy and that is what she is making plain. She is acting on great lines -- "three bullocks, and one ephah of flour, and a flask of wine, and brought him to the house of Jehovah to Shiloh ...". We have to see how priestly she is but her mind is running on great things -- three bullocks. On the way up how her mind would be on these things. And one ephah of flour; whether she understood it or not is not the point, it is what the Spirit of God puts down here. It is the humanity of Christ.

W.B. Referring to verse 21: "And Elkanah her

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husband, and all his house, went up to sacrifice to Jehovah the yearly sacrifice and his vow". What would that mean?

J.T. Well, there was not much behind it. There is nothing against the man but he thought considerably of himself: "Am not I better to thee than ten sons?" He was a good Israelite, you know. But it says of Hannah that she did not go up. This is the spiritual element.

W.B. He fitted in with the official but not with the spiritual.

G.A.T. Going back again about the mother making much of her boy. Have I not a right to put my boy in a position in this world in which my neighbours are putting their boys in order that he might be given a chance and brought to the front?

J.T. That is just the danger with us. We have in mind to make a boy distinguished and we have to watch that. We have to be fair to our children but we have to watch that. Hannah's example here would help us to see that spiritual advancement is the only advancement to be desired.

E.G.McA. Is there not a great danger in desiring to have my boy shine not only in the world but also amongst the brethren?

J.T. That is the point in regard of the weaning, that she has relinquished her claim in every way. He is now to live by God.

E.G.McA. This offering of Hannah's is a remarkable thing. She exceeds anything we find in the first chapters of Leviticus. She brings three bullocks instead of one; and for the meat offering they used only part of an ephah of flour whereas she uses a whole ephah. There was that in reserve that would continue the thing.

J.T. These large measures mean her own measure spiritually -- what she apprehended.

E.G.McA. In the intelligence of the Spirit we understand that she gave out of the greatness of her

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own idea of things; she gave for the maintenance of this spiritual system for God.

J.D. Speaking of the natural, in John 2:4 when the Lord's mother comes to Him when the wine runs out, He says to her, "What have I to do with thee, woman?" as if to say that what is going on now is absolutely spiritual.

J.B. "To whom coming, a living stone, cast away indeed as worthless by men, but with God chosen, precious", 1 Peter 2:4. Would there be any analogy between what Hannah brought and what the apostle had in his mind?

J.T. There is the analogy of spiritual power, "to whom coming". The offering of the three bullocks, and the flour and the flask of wine means there would be holy stimulation for Jehovah. There would be, so to speak, a wonderfully good time!

E.G.McA. In the wine is there a figure that the way we offer to God really moves His emotions?

J.T. That is right. It is a figure, God coming down to our way of thinking. What good meetings we would have if all the brethren came together with these thoughts in their hearts!

G.A.T. The Spirit of God would expect that.

J.T. He is working for that. It says: "And he worshipped Jehovah there". It is force of example. If I am preceding you on the line of the Spirit, I am sure to have influence. Influence is a great matter.

E.G.McA. Eli was roused from his apathy and was influenced to worship.

J.T. Just so. The testimony of the Thessalonians sounded out afar. The point is influence. The Lord says, "... make disciples", Matthew 28:19. That would be by example.

J.D. Peter was a poor one in John 21:3 when he said, "I go to fish".

J.T. What a poor example that was!

G.A.T. He was a good one in Acts 2.

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G.W.H. Samuel's sons did not carry this out at all.

J.T. That is a sad reminder. Great man as Samuel was, he did not pass on this principle of influence. You get men whom God uses and yet their families do not carry on what they have.

G.W.H. If Samuel's sons did not answer, his grandson did -- Heman. It is beautiful to see that if the first generation does not answer, the second generally does, so that the line is carried on. What Hannah desired was not seen in her grandson, but in her great grandson. Was he not appointed to a very wonderful position when the ark was brought up?

J.T. That is very good. The line is carried on anyway. The divine way of carrying the genealogy is often to omit certain members of it.

E.G.McA. Does it not limit natural expectancy?

J.T. That is good, for after all we have to count on God.

G.A.T. What does it mean to lend your child to Jehovah?

J.T. I do not think she expected to have him back. He was to remain there for ever. The word "lent" would mean a definite transaction.

G.A.T. That she would have no claim on him from now on?

J.T. If we are to make anything of the word "lend", it would be God's way of recompensing such a service.

Ques. Would it bring in the thought of baptising our children, lending them to the Lord?

J.T. Baptism enters into this. It is allied with it very strongly, but what is in mind in the use of the word "lend"? Sometimes it implies that you get a return; of course you will get a return. Hannah would find in her own soul's enrichment that there was a return.

G.W.H. Is the thought that the subjective state of the meeting considers for God and makes provision so that things are maintained in priesthood?

J.T. That is the practical lesson for us -- what a

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sister can do in a meeting. She does not say, 'This is a matter for the brothers'. Hannah went to God; she saw what was needed and got it.

G.A.T. Would you say she felt the break-up of what was official?

J.T. I am sure the instinct was there. God orders everything so that it could be expressed in this way.

J.W.D. She did not seek to undermine what was official.

J.T. That is a good suggestion. She was not thinking of breaking things up, it was rather displacement. The thing is to bring in something better. It is not a matter of using the hammer and the axe to break things up, but of bringing in something better. That is the way God works.

W.B. Hannah's offering is very remarkable in view of what it says in chapter 2, verse 17. She comes with three bullocks at a time when men abhorred the offering of the Lord.

J.D. Is it not wonderful to think that God operates on the principle of the state of His people? David recognised that when the priests would have taken the ark with them. He says, No, take it back to Jerusalem and you go with it. That meant the overthrow of the whole system there.

J.T. Where trouble arises in a meeting, and a brother or sister says, 'I will not go on there. I cannot break bread with that brother or that sister', they are ignoring what God can do. Let God work the thing out. That is very fine in David. We shall come to that later, his sending back the ark. David was no partisan; he would leave everything with God. Even though the meeting is not what I think it should be, God will work out His thoughts.

G.A.T. You would stand by the meeting regardless of what is being taught there?

J.T. People say, I will withdraw; I will not go on with that. Of course if iniquity is there it will come

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out, but otherwise go on. There was not only the ark but wise men all around it. You go back and stay there.

G.A.T. "... but they that wait upon Jehovah shall renew their strength", Isaiah 40:31.

J.T. It is a very poor thing to think of withdrawing because what is there does not suit you. God has His own way.

F.R.A. Sometimes you find there is more than one principle involved in it.

J.T. God takes time to work out His thoughts, especially if the meeting is dull or heavy. But if God is patient, why am I not?

S.W.P. At the end of the book of Judges it says: "In those days ... every man did what was right in his own eyes". In 1 Samuel it speaks of that day, as if the day had arrived for God.

J.T. Just so. This second chapter brings that out. Hannah is so triumphant. Where do people get this ability they have? See how beautifully she speaks here. It is called a prayer but really it is a celebration in beautiful, poetic form: "And Hannah prayed, and said, My heart exulteth in Jehovah, my horn is lifted up in Jehovah; my mouth is opened wide over mine enemies; for I rejoice in thy salvation. There is none holy as Jehovah, for there is none beside thee, neither is there any rock like our God" (verses 1,2).

E.H.T. Was that all a result of her appreciation of Jehovah, that she had such spiritual resources?

J.T. The Spirit of God came in. And it is as in assembly that you are carried forward beyond anything that you might have. The power of the Spirit carried her forward in this wonderful production, probably beyond anything she could ever have devised. God is making her competent as if to honour her, for she had suffered keenly. It is to bring out what is possible, that is, a production like this in a dark day such as this chapter contemplates.

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Ques. Is the secret of Hannah's power seen in the third verse: "For Jehovah is a God of knowledge"?

J.T. The great place she gives Jehovah, you mean? She says, "There is none holy as Jehovah, for there is none beside thee, neither is there any rock like our God". Then it goes on to say in verse 3: "Do not multiply your words of pride, let not vain-glory come out of your mouth". What a rebuke that is to all that is current today -- vain words. What can you say? It is to shut man's mouth. See what has come out in the last hundred years religiously! "For Jehovah is a God of knowledge". They do not get their knowledge from Him; in fact they do not care to retain Him in their knowledge.

G.A.T. What are vain words?

J.T. What do not proceed from God. It is very interesting to count up all the things He is God of. He is a God of knowledge, for one thing.

J.D. Hannah here almost rises to the height in 1 Chronicles 29.

J.T. Very nearly.

J.W.D. She turns from addressing Jehovah directly to more general ideas. Why is that?

J.T. It is an attack of the enemy: "Do not multiply your words of pride". That would be the enemy. That comes into your mind in prayer. "Let not vain-glory come out of your mouth; for Jehovah is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed. The bow of the mighty is broken, and they that stumbled are girded with strength. They that were full have hired themselves out for bread; and the hungry are so no more: Even the barren beareth seven, and she that hath many children is waxed feeble. Jehovah killeth, and maketh alive; he bringeth down to Sheol, and bringeth up. Jehovah maketh poor, and maketh rich, he bringeth low, also he lifteth up: He raiseth up the poor out of the dust; from the dung-hill he lifteth up the needy, To set him among nobles; and he maketh

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them inherit a throne of glory; For the pillars of the earth are Jehovah's, and he hath set the world upon them. He keepeth the feet of his saints, but the wicked are silenced in darkness". A person led on in the power of the Spirit of God can say marvellous things. What a knowledge she had of the stability of the universe!

G.W.H. She speaks about the greatness of Jehovah and then about His bringing down to Sheol and bringing up.

J.T. It is what faith relies upon. These vain words refer to men who have acquired a place in the profession without God, who have climbed up to the pinnacle of power. That is what it means in our day.

S.W.P. Does she show greater intelligence than Eli in calling Him "Jehovah"? Eli says "the God of Israel".

J.T. She seems to rise to the full height of what was available. It was only she who apparently did so at this time and she stands out as laying hold of what was available. What a far-reaching production this is! What a knowledge she had! She got it from God. Like the man in John 9 -- he got it as he went on.

E.G.McA. Would this correspond to the offerings in Leviticus? In the first verse of her prayer there is a portion for God, and the next is really a portion for her own soul. There were portions that the priests offered to God and portions that they ate themselves.

J.T. Well, it works out that way. We ought to learn from it that God may take up anyone in a day like ours and make them far beyond the greatest there is as to production. This is a classic, a classic that will remain. It is what God can do. How the Holy Spirit comes in as you make room for Him! God takes up the vessel, and see what He makes out of her! You do not get a production like this earlier, not even in Miriam or Deborah.

F.R.A. There is the thought of the king at the end of what Hannah says.

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J.T. She speaks first of the pillars of the earth -- that He set the world on them. "For the pillars of the earth are Jehovah's, and he hath set the world upon them. He keepeth the feet of his saints". They are preserved. Then in verse 9: "But the wicked are silenced in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail. They that strive with Jehovah shall be broken to pieces; in the heavens will he thunder upon them. Jehovah will judge the ends of the earth; and he will give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed". There will be a king and the anointed is the king.

E.G.McA. The priesthood would be maintained in divine power.

J.T. It is the king first.

S.McC. Is it not interesting that she speaks in her song of the barren bearing seven, not just one, as if there is an end to the exercise she had passed through.

J.T. Seven is always a spiritual thought.

J.W.W. Would this connect in any way with the end of Luke's gospel: "they ... were continually in the temple praising and blessing God", Luke 24:53?

J.T. I think so. This song, or prayer, of Hannah's is a contribution to the wealth of the house of God. Her son was a great contribution, but in truth, this lasts longer. This is a great spiritual contribution to the house of God -- as David later provided for the treasuries of the house whatever they were.

G.A.T. Her words are an encouragement for us today.

J.T. They are. The production of hymns -- a poetic means of serving God -- is all wealth of the treasury.

J.B. This goes far beyond the confines of Israel.

J.T. No one but God could take up a woman like Hannah and cause her to speak like this.

J.D. She touches both sides. "They that were full have hired themselves out for bread ..." -- is education

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as to the ecclesiastical position around us. She recognised what the whole official system really was.

J.W.D. "Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs", Ephesians 5:19. That is your own production, not the hymn book, is it?

J.T. I should not exclude the hymn book. They are there, no doubt; they are contemplated as there. I think that this would be in mind as a contribution to the wealth of the house, that Israel would be engaged in this sort of thing. Deuteronomy 32 is formally said to be that, not only written but put into the mouths of the people. It was to be in the mouths of the people of God -- a remarkable testimony to them (Deuteronomy 31:19).

Rem. Wisdom has built her house.

J.T. Yes. This is one of the great contributions to the Lord's house. David later takes account of all these contributions and carefully provides that they should be kept in treasuries.

W.B. Would you say a word as to verse 11: "And Elkanah went to Ramah to his house".

J.T. It is just to bring out the position of the boy.

W.B. Was Elkanah there all this time with her?

J.T. Quite so. The point is the boy ministering to Jehovah and we get it right through here: in verse 18, "And Samuel ministered before Jehovah, a boy ..." that is a potential man. Then we are told in verse 26: "And the boy Samuel grew on". In chapter 3, verse 1: "And the boy Samuel ministered to Jehovah". In verse 19: "And Samuel grew" (no longer the boy), "and Jehovah was with him, and let none of his words fall to the ground". There you have a man.

E.H.T. What about God being with him?

J.T. What would He be otherwise? God took him on. All this growth was, as it were, from what was inside, in the house. His constitution was formed by that.

E.G.McA. The development of what is priestly

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maintains things for God and for the brethren, "and Jehovah was with him".

J.T. The full thought in the priesthood in Samuel is in the verses we read.

This production brings out what she got from the lending really, something beyond anything she had ever contemplated.

E.H.T. There was a certain period in Samuel's history when God was with him. Would he have to reach that first?

J.T. There was a time when he did not know the Lord. It was all by external supervision so far.

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PRIESTHOOD (2)

1 Samuel 19:19 - 24; 1 Samuel 23:2 - 12; 1 Samuel 30:7,8

J.T. It seems as if we should give prominence now to the priesthood as seen in Samuel, and I suggested reading in chapter 19 because it brings out the thought of influence that we touched on this morning. The Spirit of God is mentioned in the passage in chapter 19, and it has an important place in our subject. Samuel was standing over the prophets prophesying. While it is not the exercise of priesthood exactly, it involves it and the Spirit of God is active in relation to it.

In chapter 7 we have priesthood in the discernment of Samuel as to the state of the people. This is implied in Hannah's case, but here we have a good evidence of priestliness in the full recognition of the state of the people. He says: "Gather all Israel to Mizpah, and I will pray Jehovah for you. And they gathered together to Mizpah, and drew water, and poured it out before Jehovah, and fasted on that day, and said there, We have sinned against Jehovah. And Samuel judged the children of Israel in Mizpah" (1 Samuel 7:5,6). Now there is a great deal of practical truth in these verses as to priestly discernment, as to what is to be done in a given circumstance. It was a dark position because the presence of the ark had been lost, and although it is back it is in circumstances unsuited to it. It says in verses 3 and 4: "And Samuel spoke to all the house of Israel, saying, If ye return to Jehovah with all your heart, put away the strange gods and the Ashtoreths from among you, and apply your hearts unto Jehovah, and serve him only; and he will deliver you out of the hand of the Philistines. And the children of Israel put away the Baals and the Ashtoreths and served Jehovah only". Samuel undertakes nothing as to the ark. He undertakes to deal with the condition of the people, for it is of no avail to bring in symbols of the

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truth aside from the state of the people. And that is how the priestly power is seen, discerning where they were and influencing them by his ministry to judge themselves. So that "the children of Israel put away the Baals and the Ashtoreths and served Jehovah only". Now he gathers them together. The gathering is consequent on this. So deep is the self-judgment that they "drew water, and poured it out before Jehovah, and fasted on that day, and said there ..." -- where this power was, where his ministry was.

J.D. What is the thought in the water here? "And they gathered together to Mizpah, and drew water, and poured it out before Jehovah, and fasted on that day, and said there, We have sinned against Jehovah". What would be the thought in the drawing of the water and the pouring of it out before Jehovah?

J.T. I think it was the judgment of themselves. The so-called wise woman later says: "For we ... are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again", 2 Samuel 14:14. It is a figure of what we are as going into the ground, not to be gathered up again according to her estimate, but that does not appear here. It is before Jehovah here. It is the full acknowledgment of their state. There is no suggestion that it cannot be gathered up. There is the gathering up of the people on Jehovah's terms through redemption as seen in the sucking-lamb.

J.D. In a practical way, would it work out as to ourselves in the application of the death of Christ in the way of moral cleansing?

J.T. Well, if it can be carried to that length. I think the acknowledgment was that water poured out on the ground is not contained in vessels. It is poured out; it disappears, it is absorbed and is never seen again. Elsewhere it "cannot be gathered up again", but here the acknowledgment implies as before Jehovah that it will be. It would involve resurrection in the full bearing of it.

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G.A.T. The water brought to David from the well at Bethlehem by the three mighty men was poured out before Jehovah.

J.T. That was more as a sacrifice. He would not use it. It was too sacred, too precious. It was from the well of Bethlehem and they had risked their lives to get it.

J.B. That would be a libation, would it not?

J.T. It would be. But here the state of the people is in mind. They say, as it were, If we go down into the grave what will become of us? Where is Abraham? Where is Isaac? Even considering Machpelah being a cave, where are they? If they are buried there (and that is the principle of burial in Genesis that they are buried there; they are known to be buried there), they will all come out. Nobody could find them today I am sure, but God knows.

J.D. Do you think the word 'there' has moral significance?

J.T. I should attach great importance to that word. It is the spot where they are buried.

J.B. Jacob says, "and there I buried Leah", Genesis 49:31.

E.G.McA. The wise woman followed up by saying: "God ... devises means that the banished one be not expelled from him", 2 Samuel 14:14.

J.T. I would not give that woman credit for much. Still I am not saying a word against what you are saying. "Water ... which cannot be gathered up again". She is thinking of the banished, that God can devise means whereby His banished can be brought back. But whether or not she understood resurrection, for that is what is in mind here, I do not know. Pouring the water out before the Lord -- He knows where His people are. A banished one is of course on earth, but a dead one is another matter.

E.G.McA. That does involve resurrection and who can find them but God?

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W.B. It is very helpful to bring in resurrection in this scripture.

J.T. I think it is. A man dead four thousand years -- where is he? A man who has his body burned and his ashes scattered to the winds, where is he? God knows.

E.G.McA. In the pouring out of the water, the children of Israel practically say, 'We are dead'.

J.T. I think that is right. It was there that they did it. The thing happened there. They "poured it out ... and said there, We have sinned against Jehovah".

J.W.D. Is your thought that the teaching of priesthood would bring this kind of thing about on the part of the people of God?

J.T. It is the power of influence. Samuel had great influence. That goes with the ministry, for it is not only that one can speak well and say good things, but the power that one has in the way of influence is a great matter with God, and it comes out peculiarly in Samuel. It says here, after they had said that: "And Samuel judged the children of Israel in Mizpah". The position helped him in the judgment. It is said later that he "judged Israel all the days of his life", even though he was cast off by the people. Saul was king. How did it happen he could judge them all the days of his life? It is to bring out this point -- the great influence that he had personally.

E.G.McA. It says of him in chapter 3, verse 19: "And Samuel grew, and Jehovah was with him, and let none of his words fall to the ground. And all Israel, from Dan even to Beer-sheba, knew that Samuel was established a prophet of Jehovah". That is the basis of all his influence.

J.T. That is right. It was known; God saw that it was known from Dan to Beer-sheba.

G.W.H. Is there an acknowledgment in the pouring out of the water that they have wandered away from God?

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J.T. There would be that. Now they are pouring it out before Him.

G.W.H. What they did in the pouring out of the water and the offering of the sucking-lamb was very attractive to God.

J.T. Quite. It was a great day for God, this day at Mizpah, so that He thundered on the enemy. The sucking-lamb is offered, as it says in verses 9 and 10: "And Samuel took a sucking-lamb, and offered it as a whole burnt-offering to Jehovah; and Samuel cried to Jehovah for Israel, and Jehovah answered him. And as Samuel was offering up the burnt-offering, the Philistines advanced to battle against Israel. And Jehovah thundered with a great thunder on that day upon the Philistines, and discomfited them; and they were routed before Israel". There is the pouring out of the water aid the acknowledgment of the sin by the people. Notice it was their own action. It was not a sacrificial action by the priest, but their own action, this pouring out of the water. Then there was room made for Samuel to judge, because it is not only ministry but the man getting his place. He judged Israel there and then you get the sucking-lamb. Now the enemy cannot afford to let that pass -- a state of things like that -- so he attacks at once. He hates the gathering of the people under these circumstances.

G.A.T. The enemy is at work on the inside but here he makes an attack on the outside.

J.T. A self-judged people gathering together under the influence of a Samuel is abhorrent to the devil. Now how is he to be met? The next thing is that it gives Samuel room to judge. He judged Israel there. The circumstances warranted it; the circumstances helped him to do it. He had his first great lesson in judging at Mizpah. It was an auspicious position and he acquired the way. It was a new system inaugurated. We are told at the end of the chapter how he judged.

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J.D. Do the priestly feelings of Samuel come into evidence in that it is a sucking-lamb he takes?

J.T. That is a beautiful touch. I suppose these small or diminutive thoughts allude not only to smallness in him but to apprehension in the saints, and it is a great tribute to the state of the people that this corresponded with their feelings. A sucking-lamb means a creature in dependence.

E.G.McA. A burnt-offering of a bullock would not be appropriate here.

J.T. It was an infantile condition but it was normal. In a state that is normal you can look for growth. It is to bring out Samuel's position and how successful he was in relation to the state of the people.

E.H.T. Would you connect that with a day of small things?

J.T. Only a day of small things that can become greater.

G.A.T. What do you mean by a day of small things, not only the material side but the actual meaning of it?

J.T. The person who uses that expression will have to give his estimate of himself -- how small I am myself.

G.A.T. Is that what it means?

J.T. That must be the way it works out.

G.A.T. I had always understood that it meant small in the same sense in which our hymn book used to read, 'For the poor of the flock'.

J.T. It is a day of small things in relation to a day of great things -- our day in relation to Pentecost. That is what is meant. It is a term used in Zechariah 4:10: "For who hath despised the day of small things?" It is acknowledged to be there but who despises it? If it is a meeting of only three or four, you are not making light of it.

J.B. This is the burnt-offering and not the sin-offering.

J.T. And a whole idea, which is another great thought. However small, it is a whole idea. A sucking-lamb

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is a whole thought but it is capable of becoming much greater, much larger than it is.

G.A.T. Jesus as a babe in the manger would be connected with a day of small things which would become very great.

E.H.T. Small things take in the whole church as a principle.

J.T. That is one of the most important points to keep before us. The whole thing is there in principle; it is not a fragment, it is a whole idea. Elijah said to the woman: "... make me thereof a little cake first", 1 Kings 17:13. It is a whole idea, not a piece of bread.

J.D. Paul says: "Our whole twelve tribes serving incessantly day and night", Acts 26:7.

E.G.McA. While we have a very small estimation of ourselves, God gives us the right and joy to entertain great ideas regarding Himself.

J.T. And what you are going on with here in Chicago -- what is it going to eventuate in? It is going to eventuate in the heavenly city, and that is a great support to one.

E.G.McA. This made room for Samuel to judge, so that the pouring out of the water and the offering of the sucking-lamb makes room for the priestly element to function for the advancement of all in the meeting.

J.T. God's idea is taking form. Samuel is judging there. That is the idea in him and the idea must not be lost. It is the state of the people making room for the judge. That is how it will be in the millennium. God "has set a day in which he is going to judge the habitable earth in righteousness by the man whom he has appointed", Acts 17:31.

J.D. We have troubles here and there, but do you not think we can depend on God to set things right if we offer the sucking-lamb? It is God that thundered.

J.T. I think that is good. The water poured out is the acknowledgment of what we are. The sucking-lamb is a positive thought, small but perfect in itself.

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That is what the chapter opens out because one point is to bring out the judgeship of Samuel. It says: "And Samuel judged Israel all the days of his life. And he went from year to year in circuit to Bethel, and Gilgal, and Mizpah, and judged Israel in all those places. And his return was to Ramah; for there was his house, and there he judged Israel; and there he built an altar to Jehovah" (verses 15 - 17).

E.G.McA. How do you use the word 'judgment'? It is not in a penal sense, is it?

J.T. No, it is 'ruling'. Judging is ruling, in the main.

E.H.T. It is connected with discernment.

J.T. Like Solomon; he can tell who is the mother of the child. You have justice, you know.

W.B. Does the care meeting come in here?

J.T. Very much. A very important point in the assembly is the element of discernment; arriving at a right thought in any given matter.

Rem. If the judgment is perfect, God will act immediately.

J.T. He acted against the enemy. Samuel prayed and the offering is in keeping with that. It was small but intrinsically precious -- a little sucking-lamb.

Ques. Why was it at Mizpah all this occurred?

J.T. Probably because of the thought of vigilance connected with it. The Lord said, "But what I say to you, I say to all, Watch", Mark 13:37.

G.A.T. Would Ramah be Samuel's local meeting?

J.T. That is where he dwelt. "... for there was his house, and there he judged Israel; and there he built an altar to Jehovah". He seems to have had great liberty there. In chapter 19 it comes into view again. It refers to elevation. It helps us greatly to see that this is Samuel's chapter; this is Samuel, the judge. You get the whole history of the man epitomised here: what he did year by year, what Ramah was, and "there he judged Israel; and there he built an altar to Jehovah".

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G.A.T. Do you connect the altar with his house?

J.T. That is how it stands.

E.G.McA. This morning it was remarked that the official was not overthrown by the way Hannah moved. Does this indicate that the official was endorsed by God because of the moral power seen in Samuel?

J.T. The official is come into evidence again based on moral power. His words do not fall to the ground. He judged the children of Israel at Mizpah but he judged them all the days of his life.

The altar indicates the place God has in your soul, that you think for God. We have often dwelt upon it. It is a fixed point reached in your soul that you can ever revert to.

E.G.McA. Do you connect this altar with the altars you often refer to in Genesis. It does not give any specifications, it is "he built". Is what he built in accord with his own knowledge of God?

J.T. I think so.

J.W.D. Is the idea of a circuit a right thought in regard to service for those who are qualified?

J.T. I think it is. If there is ability and influence, God would have it spread abroad. Gift is never local, nor is priesthood ever local. Priesthood is always universal. The more priestly you are, the more universal you will be.

J.B. The priest, the prophet, and the judge are all in the one man.

J.T. He is serving as priest. He is properly not a priest, but it is how the Lord's priesthood came into evidence. Moses had never said anything about it in regard of Judah and yet "it is clear that our Lord has sprung out of Juda", Hebrews 7:14.

J.B. God says: "And I will raise up for myself a faithful priest", 1 Samuel 2:35.

J.T. It is very good in this book. I think it looks on to Christ. Samuel does not continue, he disappears. All Israel mourned when he died, but the point in this

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book is the anointed -- he is the king. The priesthood becomes subservient to the king hereafter. In the history of Christ, it is the king and then the priest.

S.McC. "Moses and Aaron among his priests, and Samuel among them that call upon his name", Psalm 99:6. He is associated with Moses and Aaron.

J.T. That is right. He did the thing. What can he do but that? What can anybody do but that? He is not thinking of the official. He came in and delivered the children of Israel from the Philistines; he called upon God's name.

E.G.McA. You often hear expressions like this: 'Certain brothers did not take part', as though the priests were simply identified by sex. Samuel was not merely a priest but he functioned as a priest.

J.T. There it is. There is no doubt about it being priesthood and the system of things that God has in mind is beyond that. Hannah spoke about the king. David is the idea. He is rejected in chapter 23. Where is his priest? Where is his system? Where are the persons? So that when you come to David you have to wait for the evolving of a great system. Abraham was a priest in that sense and so was Noah; the thing was there but when the official side comes in, we must wait on God for that.

J.D. Does David, in going to Samuel, recognise the priestly feelings of Samuel?

J.T. I think so. He recognises that he is now rejected, that there is murderous hatred behind him. There are three or four in the chapter that protected the king -- Jonathan, Michal, and then this great system in being at Naioth. They were prophesying and Samuel was president over them. It was a system of things, but informal. It worked out of real power, the Spirit of God was there. That is the point -- the Spirit of God is there.

J.D. Is that the position today?

J.T. In coming into a meeting where the Spirit of

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God has scope, what can you say? You come under the power of it and even a person like Saul can come under the power of it.

Ques. Does "year by year" suggest the thought of the fulness of the service in connection with his judgeship? It is the fullest complete period of time that we reckon by.

J..T. Each year was filled out with service in the circuit. He went round and judged Israel -- getting to the localities where the people were. If I want to be of any use in Chicago or Vancouver, I go there.

J.W.D. Is the idea of a circuit that the service is taken up definitely according to one's ability?

J.T. Yes, I think so.

W.B. I notice that you make a good deal of ability, leaving the matter of gift in the background. Would you say a little in regard to the difference between ability and gift?

J.T. Gift is of God; it is from God. The vessel has to be prepared for it; it is fitted beforehand under the superintendence of God. Although He may not show Himself in the superintendence, I think the antecedents of men like Paul, or David, or Moses were watched over so that the vessels should be what He wanted. God would not leave things with loose ends. If He is going to inaugurate a certain service, and He wants certain servants, He watches over them so that when the time comes to give the gift they are fitted for it.

W.B. I am sure that is very helpful. What would you say about ability?

J.T. Ability is involved in the gift, I think.

W.B. Can you have it without the gift?

J.T. I do not think so -- not to do anything for God. The vessel is the thing -- a man's formation physically and morally, his mind, his affections -- all that would be in mind so as to qualify him for the kind of gift he is to have and the service he is to render. In chapter 19 you get great spiritual power. Although

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rejected, he is occupied in this great service. He is occupied in prophesying, as it says in verse 20: "Then Saul sent messengers to take David; and they saw a company of prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as president over them". Is this a mere school or college of prophets set up by Samuel now that he is out of office? Is he carrying on in that way? Ordinary unspiritual comments would just be that, that it is just a college. But what do these men say? The Spirit of God came upon them. There is real power there, the development of Samuel's ministry. He is not hampered because he is rejected. He goes on all the same.

J.D. Holding to the thought of the assembly, and as you are held under the eye of God in the present day, you are kept in power.

J.T. That is the idea. However we may be treated, we go on. That is what Samuel represents. He goes on and increases in power. You do not get anything like this even earlier in his history.

G.A.T. Although persecuted by Saul, he went on.

J.T. He went on and what these emissaries of Saul see is a company of prophets prophesying. They are doing the thing. Samuel is there and the Spirit of God is there. Beautiful combination!

G.A.T. If the enemy attacks on account of your faithfulness, you go on with God and you get power as you go on.

J.T. Suppose persons come to a meeting like this. What do they see? That is the thing we ought to be concerned about. What is to be seen? What is to be heard? Is it a sect, devised by certain leaders? Is this matter of Samuel's some side-line that he started himself? He is now out of office and has nothing to do; has he started this? It is the service of God, that is what it is. In spite of the fact he was set aside, he was the man to judge Israel, and he was judging. He was going on in power. It says: "and the Spirit of God

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came upon the messengers of Saul". The Spirit of God was not tied up there, he could even take hold of these messengers. It brings out the liberty the Spirit of God had there. These men came in and then the Spirit of God came on them and took charge of them.

F.R.A. "And thus, falling upon his face, he will do homage to God, reporting that God is indeed amongst you", 1 Corinthians 14:23.

J.T. He falls down and acknowledges that God is indeed among you. He says, as it were, 'It has been told me that He is among you, but now I know it, I am sure of it'.

G.A.T. Would these prophets become followers of Samuel?

J.T. What power there is with him! These messengers come and three times they all come under the influence. What is that? The Spirit of God.

S.W.P. Paul speaks of the "demonstration of the Spirit and of power", 1 Corinthians 2:4.

J.T. That is greatly evidenced in the two letters -- the power of the Spirit of God in Corinth.

J.W.D. Is this idea of the president on spiritual lines?

J.T. He was recognised spiritually.

Ques. Is it of significance that David is here, showing the completeness of the position?

J.T. Christ is rejected abroad in the profession; there is not a spot where there is a haven for Him. Saul asks: "Where are Samuel and David?" That is the paint. Samuel is still first, showing that the Spirit of God is keeping this man before us. What for? To see that we might come into the light of this sort of thing -- to carry on however the brethren treat you; carry on and God will be with you and the time will come when nobody can lift a finger at you.

E.G.McA. Does the secret of all this power lie in the fact that the interests of God's king are maintained and protected here?

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J.T. That is what comes out. David was rejected, murderously so, and Samuel had been cast off too. Are they both going to fall into the ditch? A real servant goes on. Whatever people think of you, go on with your work. You protect Christ there. It is the protection that David had there. Saul sent messengers to David's house to kill him and Michal protected him there, but she could not protect him here when Saul himself came. There is this that protects him.

E.G.McA. It says: "And David fled, and escaped, and came to Samuel to Ramah". That is what we have today in the way we come together. Christ has been rejected but in a company like this where the Spirit of God is recognised, the interests of Christ are safe. The one who comes in sees that, so that Saul has to submit to the thing.

J.T. And in submitting he is exposed. The messengers were not exposed, but he was. He is the originator of the opposition so that you might say the opposition is exposed in this.

G.A.T. What you say is very important for both old and young. We shall know what opposition is if we are going to be here for the Lord.

J.T. "All who are in Asia ... have turned away from me", 2 Timothy 1:15, but he went on: "But the Lord stood with me, and gave me power, that through me the proclamation might be fully made", 2 Timothy 4:17. It is to encourage us to keep on, whatever treatment we get. Keep on in the service and God will honour it.

Ques. "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me". Is that what we should get into our hearts (Luke 4:18)?

J.T. That is it. That is how the Lord began His ministry.

W.B. It speaks of the "great well" in verse 22. In John 4 we have a deep well but here it is a "great well".

J.T. Which may be taken to symbolise the power of the Spirit. A great well is something of God. The

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water is of God springing up -- the power of the Spirit in that connection.

J.B. Very different from the water that was cast upon the ground.

J.T. Very different.

Now coming on to David's position in chapter 21, it behoves us to remember that the Lord, in alluding to this section of the book, calls it that of Abiathar the high priest. The principle of the high priest is there. Abiathar is called a high priest only by the Lord Himself and he certainly could not be called a high priest here. The Lord, in using the term, must have had in mind the place that the priesthood is now acquiring as we proceed in this book. "In the section of Abiathar the high priest" (Mark 2:26), as if the idea of the high-priestly thought is to dominate this section. Abiathar is a remnant of the household of priests but David was already acting in relation to the house of God. The Lord says: "He entered into the house of God, in the section of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the shew-bread, which it is not lawful unless for the priests to eat". He was acting as a priest, according to the Lord's own remarks. That is, he was eating priestly food. To develop into priests, we must learn to eat priestly food. Even if the official class denies us, we get it anyway. He overcame the difficulties of the priest and got the bread. No one ever got bread to eat under more difficulty than David did at this time.

E.H.T. Would you say a word about the priesthood at this point?

J.T. I was remarking on the Lord's comment on Abiathar. He was a remnant of the priests who were slain. It says: "And one of the sons of Ahimelech the son of Ahitub, named Abiathar, escaped". There is no suggestion of his being the high priest here. He is named Abiathar, but the Lord used him and calls him the high priest. Why did the Lord say that? Because the great idea of a high priest fits in here -- the thought

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of priesthood. Of course you have to go back to Exodus for the types. I believe the root of priesthood is in the Hebrew servant. He says, "I love my master, my wife, and my children", Exodus 21:5. The root of it is love; that you love God, that you love the saints. No one is a priest except he loves -- the great thought of his life is that he loves. All his actions are the working out of love. He is just a slave to everybody. But while we may regard the Lord Jesus as seen in the Hebrew servant, the priest's dress is described in Exodus 28 where it is dignified. The great thought in the chapter is garments which bring out dignity. There is no thought of that in the slave. He is a slave because he loves, a bondman because he loves. God would say, That is what he is doing, serving everybody; doing whatever, is necessary to do, but I want you to understand what is necessary to do. He does everything in love and the clothes indicate the person.

J.D. The principle of it roots itself in God Himself for "God is love". They were garments "for glory and for ornament".

J.T. It is to balance that, that we might have right thoughts about the persons. It is a chapter of garments. Love will do anything that is to be done, and in serving in love you are really great because God is said to be love.

G.A.T. Does that refer to old brethren only?

J.T. Wherever love is active, it would stop at nothing to serve. He will not go out free because of love. He is the first one to say, "I love".

W.B. Phoebe would be a great priest.

J.T. Quite so. That chapter is a chapter of dignity, a chapter of garments, of salutations. And Phoebe heads the list. You look at the saints and what impresses you is that they love.

J.D. In Acts 20 where Eutychus fell from the third story, it says that Paul descended and enfolded him in his arms.

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J.T. Very beautiful, that word 'descended'.

S.McC. In connection with this, why does the Lord refer to it as the section of Abiathar when it was Ahimelech who gave him the food?

J.T. That is the point, not only Ahimelech but Abiathar the high priest. He is a young man here. He is just named Abiathar. He has no distinction yet, w that the Lord must have in mind the thought of priesthood. It is stamped on this section -- David entering the house of God and eating the shew-bread. It is God, I believe, putting it to us -- Why do you not do that? Why should you hang back if David did that? All this is to bring out high priesthood, that we might learn priesthood from the high priest.

S.McC. It stands connected with going through the corn fields.

J.T. That is what we all need, brothers and sisters. Why do I not do that, eat that kind of food and take that liberty? if liberty is given to me of God, why do I not use it?

G.A.T. Is the food there whether I eat it or not?

J.T. The food is there and David knew it was there, and the Lord says he ate it.

Rem. He got Goliath's sword too.

J.T. He got the military side too. He is robbing Saul's kingdom of all that was of any value in it. Those that love the Lord Jesus Christ are robbing it of all that it has -- all the precious things that they arrogate to themselves.

E.G.McA. Abiathar had an ephod in his hand and by it David inquires of God.

J.T. That is a necessary thing for us to think of. Samuel was girded with a linen ephod when he was a boy. That is the significance of the Lord's remark, he is the one that has it. The ephod is the priestly robe par excellence. It is the first one made. The breastplate is mentioned first but the ephod is made first. It signifies real priesthood that God can own.

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So that David asks God before it comes but now that it comes (Abiathar brings it), he asks with it. That is an important point in the understanding of our subject.

J.D. What would be the bearing of the fact that Doeg was there that day? Had God appointed him to be there, and would that emphasise the Lord's remark that the priesthood in spite of all opposition is being carried through?

J.T. Quite so. David knew he was there. For the moment he was there to inquire of the Lord.

G.A.T. David said, "I knew it that day", 1 Samuel 22:22.

J.T. He knew, quite.

E.G.McA. Will you say some more about the ephod? Abiathar was the only priest left. There must be something in it for us today.

J.T. He is high priest in the Lord's mind -- he brings the priestly garment with him. He has it. He is the remnant of the priests but he has the garment and the garment denotes the priesthood in God's mind.

J.B. Would that also include the breastplate?

J.T. It would. It was put into the ephod, and the shoulder-pieces too. This garment has all the great thoughts; the names of the people, the names of the tribes, are engraved there.

J.D. You were remarking in Vancouver that up to a certain point God bore with David apart from the ephod. As you get on in your soul God raises the question sooner or later, and so David says to Abiathar, before he enquired of God, "Bring the ephod".

J.T. God listens to the young christian lisping out his needs, but the time comes when he should know how to pray. It says, "Teach us to pray". The high priest teaches us how to pray. That is the force of the priesthood, that the ephod was brought down and constituted David a real priest.

J.D. Teaching us to pray by example, would John 17 help?

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J.T. Why not. Should we say the Lord's prayer, so-called? "Our Father who art in the heavens, let thy name be sanctified, let thy kingdom come, let thy will be done as in heaven so upon the earth; give us today our needed bread", Matthew 6:9 - 11. That was a priestly prayer at one time, and is yet, and will be by and by because the priesthood is graded you know. Israel will not have access inside. They will be on earth and God will be in heaven. In Luke when the disciple says to the Lord, "Teach us to pray" (Luke 11:1), the Lord says, "When ye pray, say, Father, thy name be hallowed". He does not say, "Father who art in the heavens". That is prayer any christian can use. If I talk about the prayer in Matthew, why do I not ask a question about John 17? That is the prayer for me. The Lord said, "Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee", John 17:1. I am let into that.

G.A.T. That is the Lord's prayer.

J.T. That is the Lord's prayer. What we call the Lord's prayer is in Matthew 6, but it does not say He prayed it for Himself -- it is what He taught them to pray. About ten times in Luke we are told that He was a whole night in prayer. You would like to have heard what He said!

Ques. In the difficulties of the present moment, when we acquire light for our souls, which in principle is asking for the ephod, do we approach the Lord Jesus Christ in prayer?

J.T. If you come to the Lord and speak to Him as you did when you were first converted, the Lord would say: 'You should know better than to use those words'. To use what we call the Lord's prayer in the assembly is unintelligent; the Lord would say; 'You should know better than that'. Paul said, "I speak as to intelligent persons", 1 Corinthians 10:15. I believe that is what the ephod means. It is the priestly garment above all others.

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G.A.T. I do not see why we do not say, 'Heavenly Father'.

J.T. Take the epistle to the Hebrews: "Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling", Hebrews 3:1. Partakers of it -- we belong to heaven; we do not belong to earth at all.

G.A.T. I am still not clear on that.

J.T. Properly speaking, christians are in heaven too. They are made to sit down in the heavenlies.

G.A.T. So we do not pray as those at a distance from the Father?

J.T. No, as sons there.

S.McC. In connection with the addressing of the Father, because of what is conventional there seems to be a lack of liberty. Would the taking of the ephod help in connection with it?

J.T. It involves the intelligence of the priest. He knows how to speak to God, he is taught it. The high priest teaches. David uses the ephod, why should I not use it? He took liberties because he was in the liberty. He went into the house of God and tarried there and ate the bread. He had liberty in his soul. Why do I not take that liberty?

J.D. So here, when Abiathar brings the ephod, David addresses God most intelligently in regard of the situation. He says: "Jehovah, God of Israel".

J.T. There was intelligence in the way he addressed God. So with ourselves, we learn how to say "Father" if we are moving with the ephod. If we are moving in priestly feelings, the Lord would instruct us how to say "Father".

E.G.McA. You have spoken of the garment in other connections as indicating atmosphere. When the ephod is present in a meeting, do you have an atmosphere so that every christian in the liberty of priesthood can address God or the Lord, according to intelligence by the Spirit?

J.T. That is right. The apostle is dealing with the

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subject in 1 Corinthians 14:15: "I will pray with the spirit, but I will pray also with the understanding; I will sing with the spirit, but I will sing also with the understanding". That is what he is aiming at. He says, "I speak as to intelligent persons", 1 Corinthians 10:15. If it is clear that we are worshipping the Father at a given point in the meeting, the thing is to proceed with that and not go back. If we begin with the Lord's supper we do not finish with it. We finish with God -- He is the end of all.

Ques. Is that the reason that in Ezra they could not discern the right genealogy because there was not a priest with Urim and Thummim?

J.T. That is right. God has brought some of His people back to priesthood and that is the thing to keep to.

S.W.P. Why do you say we finish with God?

J.T. Because "of him, and through him, and for him are all things", Romans 11:36. It is God. And so it is that God should be "all in all", 1 Corinthians 15:28. God 'all in all', not 'all and in all'. God is all but He is in all, as God. That is eternity. He is God objectively but He is in all as well, subjectively. God fills the scene. Do you not think that is right? I believe God is helping us on that line.

S.McC. When it says: "That ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God" (Ephesians 3:19), does God there imply the Deity in connection with the revelation, or what is distinctive of God as Father?

J.T. I think it is God in revelation when we are "filled even to all the fulness". Mark you, it is not into God but to the fulness of the thing; the fulness of a thing or a person is what is shining out.

S.McC. Would it link with John 20"My God and your God" (verse 17)?

J.T. Quite so. Fulness is the word there in Ephesians. The fulness of a person is what is known or shines out. If you think of Him essentially, He dwells in light

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unapproachable, but fulness is what is brought out or revealed.

S.McC. "My God and your God", does not involve what He is essentially?

J.T. When you think of Christ's God, it is what God is in His infinite Being. That is the great thing -- to get alongside of Christ -- to know Christ's God. If you heard the Lord Jesus speak to God, you would get some idea of what God is. "My Father and your Father", is God objectively in Christ. It is God "all in all" which involves the revelation of Himself. "God is love, and he that abides in love abides in God, and God in him", 1 John 4:16. That is God in His fulness. I think we have to keep that before us -- the distinction between the fulness and what He is abstractly in His essential Being. He is unapproachable in that.

J.D. The one involving revelation and the other what He is in absolute deity.

J.T. We know it is there. It is before us; it is such a wonderful thing as that, an inscrutable God, but He has come near to us as well.

J.B. The fulness has all come out in Christ.

J.T. There it is -- God near to us in a man bodily.

G.W.H. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ", Ephesians 1:3. Is God there inscrutable and unknowable and the Father of revelation?

J.T. The Father conveys the idea of revelation. It is God taking a relationship that is intelligible to us -- the Father and Son -- He has entered into that relationship so that He might be known by us.

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PRIESTHOOD (3)

2 Samuel 2:1; 2 Samuel 6:12 - 23

J.T. One of the scriptures read yesterday afternoon was in 1 Samuel 30 and did not come into view in our reading. It seems as if we should dwell a little on it before proceeding to the second book. It says: "And David said to Abiathar the priest, Ahimelech's son, Bring near to me, I pray thee, the ephod. And Abiathar brought the ephod near to David. And David inquired of Jehovah, saying, Shall I pursue after this troop? shall I overtake them? And he said to him, Pursue; for thou shalt assuredly overtake them and shalt certainly recover" (verses 7,8). It is needful to get the full benefit of this inquiry to comment on the circumstances under which priesthood in David showed itself. This one is well-known, the capture of Ziklag by the Amalekites. The burning of it and the capture of the families of David and his men, occasion great distress. "David was greatly distressed", and it says, "Then David and the people that were with him lifted up their voice and wept, until they had no more power to weep".

There are certain psalms that are called historical psalms and each psalm sets out the priestly exercises of David in the particular circumstance. These psalms are suggestive of how believers progress in priesthood, God allowing occurrences in our histories which are intended to bring out what is effected in us. The historical psalms serve to show David's exercises. There is no psalm written on this incident but it is one of the most trying of David's life. In no other instance is it said that there was weeping until there was no more power to weep. There is no doubt that in each of our histories, circumstances of this kind have arisen and David's action here is an example for us. "But David strengthened himself in Jehovah his God". Instead of

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being overwhelmed by the sorrow, he has recourse to God. He finds refuge in God. It is not that God encouraged him exactly, although He is the God of all encouragement, but David encouraged himself. He "strengthened himself in Jehovah his God", and in that encouragement he calls for Abiathar to bring the ephod; as if God looks for the power of recovery in ourselves in these circumstances, and then being thus in the encouragement in a priestly condition so as to speak to God.

E.H.T. It seems as if there is a good deal of the government of God seen in this incident. How do you connect that at the present time?

J.T. That is important. He is where he should not have been and God allowed this to happen.

E.H.T. In a governmental way?

J.T. I think so, and to bring out an example for us as to the exercise of priesthood. Such things happen to us -- they are constantly happening.

E.G.McA. Just how is priesthood exercised in connection with such an incident as this? As has been remarked, he was under the government of God and greatly distressed, but he "strengthened himself in Jehovah his God". We seem to have an idea that priesthood is largely connected with service to God or on man's behalf, but how does priesthood come into function in a case of deep exercise?

J.T. It seems as if before drawing near to God, the strength is there. A priest is not a man overwhelmed with grief. A priest overwhelmed with grief has no title to enter the sanctuary.

G.A.T. You do not get a priest committing suicide.

J.T. A suicide would be a man that is overwhelmed in circumstances like this. There is no strength in him, no means of self-revival. This brings out what one who knows God is able to do -- he strengthens himself. In Leviticus 10 we are told that we are not to be in grief; we are not to uncover our heads. A terrible thing

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happened in Aaron's house. His two sons were slain under the government of God but he was not to be affected. That requires great power in the soul.

J.D. Would Phinehas, in Numbers 25:7, be a good example of one who considered for God? He took a javelin in his hand and smote the man of Israel and the Midianitish woman.

J.T. That is excellent. That is where priesthood was fully expressed at that time. And Jehovah says: "And he shall have it, and his seed after him, the covenant of an everlasting priesthood" (verse 13).

J.D. Is it the same priesthood in the book of Malachi?

J.T. I think so -- the covenant of righteousness and peace. This power over our circumstances is a great matter to have before us. We are not to enter the sanctuary full of grief or overwhelmed with our circumstances. There is the power of recovery in the christian having the Spirit. David did it himself. God helps us wonderfully but there is this power of getting up; as it were, "Arise, and take up thy couch and walk", Mark 2:9.

S.McC. In 2 Corinthians 6:4 - 6, the apostle says "... in much endurance, in afflictions, in necessities, in straits, in stripes, in prisons ... in the Holy Spirit". Would the light of the priesthood in connection with one's circumstances be maintained in connection with this expression -- "in the Holy Spirit"?

J.T. That is a good word. There is always the means of getting up.

J.B. Would not Psalm 27 be the expression of a man strengthening himself: "Jehovah is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? Jehovah is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?" Then in verse 14: "Wait for Jehovah; be strong and let thy heart take courage: yea, wait for Jehovah".

J.T. That bears out what we are saying, that if we

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study the historical psalms we shall see how a spiritual man viewed things in crises, in pressures, in disasters.

G.W.H. Is this Roman territory?

J.T. I think so.

G.W.H. Is this the rising point, the beginning of the rising with David?

J.T. Yes. This is horizontal territory. After this you have the rising territory, the upper regions. He ascends in the next book. It refers to ascension: "Shall I go up ... ?" 2 Samuel 2:1. Everything on the horizontal line has to be adjusted before we can move up, and this chapter is that. In the beginning of the next book he abides two days at Ziklag before he does anything. "And it came to pass after the death of Saul, when David had returned from the slaughter of the Amalekites, that David abode two days in Ziklag", 2 Samuel 1:1. These would be reflective days after the disaster and the victory, as if to consolidate the victory in his soul. He would look abroad on the charred city and the wives and children all restored, and say, 'What has God done!' And what He has done He will do again!

E.H.T. Have you in mind that David could encourage himself in the Lord by the accumulation of spiritual wealth?

J.T. He had accumulated wealth in his soul. The previous experience stood him in good stead now. What God has been in the past, He will be to me now.

E.G.McA. In his own soul's experience he would draw upon the treasures that were put into the treasury.

J.T. That is right. The believer himself is the treasury.

G.A.T. He was constantly in touch with Jehovah and would not move without Jehovah's instructions.

J.T. In all the passages, we read that he moved in the light of the answers to his prayers.

G.A.T. Is it possible for us to have the mind of God as he had?

J.T. That is what it is written for. What strikes

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you is the accuracy with which he moved after he received an answer. He had no second thoughts, no doubts about it. He was sure of his ground.

J.D. It speaks of David's distress in chapter 30, "for the people spoke of stoning him". It would look as if David was alone here. He is an example for us in most trying circumstances. You might have your brethren absolutely against you at this point.

J.T. Something befalls you and the brethren say, 'We knew he was not going on well'. It is sad enough to be suffering under the government of God but when the brethren turn on you, that adds to it keenly. This position here is distinctive of himself. In spite of all that, he strengthens himself. I do not think one is really a priest characteristically except as strengthened. The strength that he acquires from God leads inward -- you draw near. We see it later in chapter 12 of the next book. He lay on the ground until the child died and when he died, he arose and anointed himself. He accepted the thing. He had strength in the humble acceptance of the government of God. He had strength to enter the house of God and worship.

E.G.McA. I like your remark that there is that in every believer by which he can recover himself to God. Of course it goes along the line of our brother's reference to 2 Corinthians 6"in the Holy Spirit". There is a sense in which, independent of my brethren, I can be recovered to full priestly feelings in myself. I believe it would cast us much more individually upon God.

J.T. Then we have power with others.

G.W.H. Is this 2 Corinthians 1:8,9? "We were excessively pressed beyond our power, so as to despair even of living. But we ourselves had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not have our trust in ourselves, but in God who raises the dead".

J.T. That corresponds in a negative way; first that the apostle had the sentence of death in himself. I have no doubt that David had too. No doubt he would

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feel; 'I have been away from my wives and children, and this has happened. I have been neglectful'. Paul had the sentence of death in himself; he had a true estimate of himself in it all.

E.H.T. Does he not show great wisdom?

J.T. Yes, wonderful; getting down before God and weeping until he has no more power to weep. He is the great weeper in Scripture. He exceeded Jonathan.

G.A.T. Did this discipline come upon him on account of the place in which he found himself?

J.T. He was with the enemy -- in a false position really.

G.A.T. On that account the Lord allowed this to come upon him?

J.T. No doubt. Paul had the sentence of death in himself He would say he deserved it. It is when you get down low like that that God comes in. The strengthening of himself in his God is a point to be noticed because that is priestly power. He does not take on the ephod weeping, that is not suitable at all. A priest, according to Leviticus 10, is not to be weeping; he is to be there in a priestly way, suitable to God. David calls for the ephod as if he is now putting on a formal priestly attitude before God. The idea of the sanctuary is that I am there suitably. God never gives up His rights whatever my circumstances might be.

G.A.T. God allowed this to come upon him to restore him to his proper place.

J.T. He becomes greater through it. He is very considerate of others. He considers for those who stayed behind with the stuff.

E.G.McA. "... in pressure thou hast enlarged me", Psalm 4:1.

J.T. That is the thought. So that he abides two days before moving. The first chapter of the next book shows what right feelings he had in regard to Saul and Jonathan. He had no bad feelings about them.

G.A.T. That is a hard test.

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J.T. It is a mark of triumph. One is superior to feelings regarding one's bitterest enemies, and that is what the first chapter of the second book means. Ziklag is the great adjusting point. "Who shall ascend into the mount of Jehovah? and who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath blameless hands and a pure heart" (Psalm 24:3,4) -- clean hands and able to lift them up in a priestly way.

S.McC. The word 'Ziklag' means the 'overflowing of a fountain'. It would bear out what has been said in regard to the way he considered for his enemies.

J.T. It would.

J.W.D. One can strengthen oneself; one has control in a priestly way over oneself.

J.T. That is right. The first chapter of the second book is very instructive in that sense as developing out of abiding at Ziklag. It is Roman territory. Romans is the great adjusting epistle before I begin to ascend. It really admits me to Ephesians.

G.W.H. It is said of Job that he prayed for his three friends. Is that to take place in the life of each of us before we ascend?

J.T. That helps as to the subject in hand. It says: "And Jehovah turned the captivity of Job, when he had prayed for his friends" (Job 42:10), showing how God regards priesthood in that way.

Ques. When David abides two days at Ziklag, would there be something worked out in his own soul?

J.T. That is what is meant. The two days would be meditation. He made decided gain in his soul. As we know God, and strengthen ourselves in God, He gives us victories and we make definite gain. Then the question is, 'Can I hold what I gain?' The word 'consolidate' became very much used in the late war -- consolidated territory. It means that the results of the victories are not snatched away from me; the enemy is ready to snatch the victories if I am not watchful.

Ques. How do I hold that territory?

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J.T. It is in meditation. David would wish to get away from the place of his weeping, the loss of his wives, and all that, but he stayed there and I believe he consolidated the position. He never lost his ground.

J.D. Would it be of help to say a word about the two days in Ziklag and the two days the Lord waited in John 11?

J.T. The two days are perfected exercise. The two is adequate testimony that the thing is taking effect. The two days that the Lord waited were sufficient in regard of the matter in hand, because the point was not that anything was going on in the Lord's own soul; the point was the Lord was going on to Bethany. In Luke when they say to Him, "Lord, behold here are two swords", He replies, "It is enough", Luke 22:38. Two is enough for the point in question.

E.G.McA. Would the exhortation of Paul to Timothy be consolidation: "Occupy thyself with these things; be wholly in them, that thy progress may be manifest to all", 1 Timothy 4:15.

J.T. Quite so. Timothy was a man of that kind.

G.A.T. How can I overcome a feeling which I may have towards my brother?

J.T. What we are engaged with now helps as to that -- a knowledge of God, finding strength to call for the ephod and drawing near to God. When you get inside you find that God is not holding anything against His enemies. Christ died for us when we were enemies; that is what we see in the blood on the mercy-seat.

E.G.McA. "If therefore thine enemy should hunger, feed him", Romans 12:20.

J.T. That is the sequel. That is, the chapter begins with: "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the compassions of God". It is the compassions of God.

G.A.T. I have known those verses for quite a while.

J.T. It is a question of the knowledge one has of God and getting inside.

E.G.McA. "David strengthened himself in Jehovah

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his God", not that God strengthened him but that he strengthened himself. A knowledge of God is what does it. My knowledge of God underlies all these actions.

G.A.T. Psalm 73 says he was envious of the wicked, but when he entered the sanctuary he saw their end.

J.T. Everything is clear there. That is the thought.

Ques. After the two days of waiting at Ziklag, would the company not get the gain of what David went through in his own soul there?

J.T. What company there?

Rem. I thought that he had recovered all in chapter 30, and would it not suggest that he is in the midst of a recovered company at Ziklag? He is getting the gain of all he is going through, and so would they.

J.T. It says: "And it came to pass after the death of Saul, when David had returned from the slaughter of the Amalekites, that David abode two days in Ziklag. And it came to pass on the third day, that behold, a man came out of the camp from Saul with his garments rent". No doubt these men were there and they would get the gain of him for he was in a wonderful state with God, having gone through all this, but the point is, how is he going to think of his enemies? Does he retain his animosity? Did he ever have any? It would seem that he did not have any animosity towards Saul. Now that Saul has gone and he can speak freely, what are his feelings? On the third day this man comes to him out of the camp from Saul. "And David said to him, Whence comest thou? And he said to him, Out of the camp of Israel am I escaped". Does he rejoice when he hears of Saul's death? No, he does not, because of the anointing. How sorrowful a thing that is -- "The shield of Saul, as not anointed with oil" (verse 21). We should look at the brethren in that light -- they are anointed.

J.D. In connection with hard feelings in one's breast, do you think that what lies behind the state of

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forgiveness is that you have secret soul history with God? David would never forget the slaying of the lion and the bear, and these other steps we have outlined in his path. All that is secret soul history with God.

J.T. That is right. It is cumulative and it stood him in good stead. Then this great disaster happens.

E.G.McA. In chapter 2:3 it says: "And his men that were with him did David bring up, every man with his household; and they dwelt in the cities of Hebron". They profited by this experience with David.

J.T. Surely. The first chapter is to bring out David himself All this is seen in the man that is exhibiting priestly power.

G.A.T. Do you get that in the spirit of Jesus when He was dying? He had no feeling against His enemies.

J.T. That is the thought. The song of the bow in the book of Jasher is to bring out this upright man, the kind of man that goes up, that speaks well of his enemies; not simply because they were friends of his but because they were anointed. It is the brethren viewed as taken on by God. You cannot but be sorrowful when you hear of one of the children of God walking in a worldly way. You cannot but be sorrowful, because he belongs to God.

E.H.T. Was David keeping the feast of unleavened bread, so that he could lay aside all malice?

J.T. That is right. He would go over the ground: Why was I so foolish as to go off with the Philistines like that and leave everything? He exposed the heritage. It belonged to the kings of Judah. It was important and he exposed it to the enemies.

J.B. Hebron was given to Caleb and his sons.

J.T. That came out in Joshua.

J.B. David is told to go there.

J.W.D. This idea of teaching the children of Judah the song of the bow: is it that David considered what Saul and Jonathan were potentially, or what they might have been?

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J.T. I suppose the song of the bow here, whilst it brings out the magnanimity of David, his liberality and his generous spirit toward his enemies, also brings out the failure of Saul and his son. Why should they be there?

J.W.D. They are being taught there.

J.D. Would it suggest long-distance warfare?

J.T. That is the idea. The song of the bow would mean that the enemy had better weapons. Why should Israel be at a disadvantage in their weapons? That question arises earlier, in chapter 13 of the first book. Israel was dependent on the Philistines for their weapons of war. It all came out under Saul.

J.W.D. I thought David carried Saul and Jonathan in his heart's affections in this way although literally they were far from it; what they were, in spite of being his enemies.

J.T. He thought of the bright side, did he not? You look back on your knowledge of the brethren, even though they turn against you, you think of what they were -- something of God there and certainly a place in the anointing.

Ques. Is the thought of feelings a settled matter with David? Is it a lament when he says, "How are the mighty fallen, and the instruments of war perished!" 2 Samuel 1:27.

J.T. I think the brethren ought to take notice of that. That is a reflection on Saul's whole history, the kind of weapons he used. "The instruments of war perished". But David's instruments did not perish. He had an armoury. The sword of Goliath that he took from him was kept behind the ephod, wrapped up. David says, I want that -- that is the best. That is never said to have perished. All that is over against Saul's weapons, and the song of the bow is to remind us of the need of right instruments of war or we shall be defeated. So that we have the armour of God in Ephesians: "Put on the panoply of God", Ephesians 6:11.

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The first thing is to be girded about the loins with truth, then to put on the breastplate, etc. Then we are to have the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God and which is an aggressive weapon. The others are defensive but the sword of the Spirit is the word of God.

J.D. Were the weapons of Saul's warfare carnal?

J.T. In the main, yes.

E.G.McA. Saul's weapons were used in a dishonourable way whereas David's were always used for the help of the people of God. "For there the shield of the mighty was vilely cast away, The shield of Saul, as not anointed with oil". A disgraceful place in which to be found!

J.T. Quite so. David had had to do with the lion and the bear, and when he is to approach Goliath, he would not rely on Saul's armour. He had the shepherd's bag with the five smooth stones. They represent the word of God -- they were taken out of the brook.

G.W.H. These two days at Ziklag were very important days. Would there be a complete review of the path with David and everything cleared so that now he ascends?

J.T. Yes. It is well to clear things up in our lives, in our inward exercises, before proceeding further. Ziklag is a point reached, a landmark, and I want to consolidate this position. That would mean I look around. He is tested on the third day by the messenger to exercise his natural feelings, but he is equal to it. The next time it is, "Shall I go up?" He is not going to use his own will and take advantage of the death of Saul, he is going to move in a priestly way. He would not say, 'Now is my opportunity; the enemy is dead and I will get the throne'. But no, 'What shall I do next?' That is the thing.

G.A.T. What about this messenger? What kind of brother would he be?

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J.T. He is an Amalekite. It says that David said to him, "Whence art thou?" David had raised that question in 1 Samuel 30:13, and the young man says there: "I am a young man of Egypt, servant of an Amalekite", but here the man says, "I am an Amalekite". Then it says: "And the young man that told him said, I happened by chance to be upon mount Gilboa, and behold, Saul leaned on his spear; and behold, the chariots and horsemen followed hard after him. And he looked behind him, and saw me, and called to me. And I said, Here am I. And he said to me, Who art thou? And I said to him, I am an Amalekite. He said to me again, Stand, I pray thee, over me, and slay me; for anguish has seized me; for my life is yet whole in me. So I stood over him, and put him to death, for I knew that he would not live after his fall; and I took the crown that was upon his head, and the bracelet that was on his arm, and have brought them hither to my lord". This is the story of a man in the flesh. He is excusing himself in a way when he says, "I knew that he would not live". When David hears his story it says, "Then David took hold of his garments and rent them; and all the men that were with him did likewise. And they mourned, and wept, and fasted until even for Saul, and for Jonathan his son, and for the people of Jehovah, and for the house of Israel; because they were fallen by the sword". That is very beautiful I think, spiritually. This young man is just a natural young man and he is thinking to get some advantage in taking the crown to David. David says: "Whence art thou? And he said, I am the son of an Amalekite stranger. And David said to him, How wast thou not afraid to stretch forth thy hand to destroy Jehovah's anointed? Then David called one of the young men and said, Draw near, and fall on him. And he smote him that he died. And David said to him, Thy blood be upon thy head; for thy mouth has testified against thee, saying, I have slain Jehovah's anointed".

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All that is to bring out David spiritually, what he thought of the anointed.

G.A.T. What a contrast there is between this young man and the apostle Paul when he placed the bundle of sticks on the fire. This man put the fire out.

J.T. He had no sense of what he was dealing with.

J.D. There does not seem to be much order in his steps. He says, "I happened by chance". It is not at all like the Samaritan in Luke 10. He was not there by chance.

E.G.McA. You made a remark that any brother who got out of line would cause sorrow to the hearts of all his brethren. It says in verse 12: "And they mourned, and wept, and fasted until even for Saul, and for Jonathan his son, and for the people of Jehovah, and for the house of Israel; because they were fallen by the sword". The death of those two men caused sorrow to the whole interest of God on earth.

J.T. This is a great spiritual lesson, because it looks as if the young man was rightly dealt with. I have to see the spirituality that underlies all this. It is the king of Israel that is slain, and his son. No one except a natural man could fail to be affected by such happenings, even though the persons are his enemies.

W.B. Would you connect the anointing with the sovereignty of God?

J.T. It is God's side. It is God committing Himself.

W.B. So you would respect God's sovereignty in the anointing.

J.T. What does God feel? He has just taken me up and He has to deal judicially with me. How does He feel about it? The exigencies of His nature require that He deal with me. He had to deal with Adam and Eve.

J.D. Looking at Saul as representative of the ecclesiastical system, one can see that God has used such men in the past; and if at the end of their days they drop down, you would feel grief, would you not?

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J.T. Just so. You cannot but be sorry; there are many such.

E.H.T. How must God feel about it?

J.T. God has a heart. "It grieved him in his heart", Genesis 6:6. He was sorry. There are the exigencies of His majesty and of His throne. If Adam fails and if Eve fails, He has to deal with them judicially but He feels it nevertheless. He is grieved. He has put His flaming sword to guard the way to the tree of life.

E.G.McA. Priestly feelings enter largely into the Care meeting.

J.T. If they do not, you will have hard judgments reached.

Rem. This young man, had he understood David at all or learned from him, would not have thought of doing this.

J.T. Just so. He represents the natural element in us. If you see that, you will recognise that David's action was right.

J.D. Speaking of God's heart, it says in Hosea 11:8, "My heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together".

J.T. I think He is often grieved for His people.

Now in chapter 2 we see the thought of ascension that came into his mind. "And it came to pass after this that David inquired of Jehovah, saying, Shall I go up into one of the cities of Judah?" He might have said, 'Shall I go into one of the cities of Judah', but he says, "Shall I go up?" God says, "Go up". God uses the same word. "And David said, Whither shall I go up? And he said, Unto Hebron". Hebron is full of history, and would suggest great things to a spiritual man like David. What does Hebron mean? There are the tombs of the men of faith there. It is a priestly city, too, a levitical city. It was an elevated city -- about three thousand feet up. All these things would affect David, I am sure, and they were intended to. A flood

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of spiritual thoughts is introduced by Jehovah in naming Hebron.

S.W.P. Is that why David let God name the city?

J.T. God's choice is best. That is Colossians -- God saying to you now, I am going to bring you into another world.

G.W.H. Is it Colossians 1?

J.T. It is not yet heaven but it is necessary for us to get the idea of another world.

F.R.A. Is this similar to what Hannah says, "He bringeth down to Sheol, and bringeth up", 1 Samuel 2:6?

J.T. He was brought down to Sheol at Ziklag, and now he is going up. Hebron is outside of the world, it is an out-of-the-world condition of things -- not the definite end of God but out of this world.

G.A.T. "Have your mind on the things that are above", Colossians 3:2.

S.W.P. It is not the Ephesian position?

J.T. It is on the way to it. David is seven and a half years here (chapter 2:11), showing how long I have to be there to learn the heavenly side of things.

G.W.H. Why does Colossians begin with prayer?

J.T. That helps, does it not? The epistle was written by Paul because of the exercise of Epaphras, that they might "stand perfect and complete in all the will of God", Colossians 4:12. You have reached a point that you are not going to surrender.

E.H.T. It is wonderful what David took up with him.

J.T. You are referring to verse 2: "So David went up thither, and his two wives also, Ahinoam the Jizreelitess, and Abigail the wife of Nabal the Carmelite. And his men that were with him did David bring up, every man with his household; and they dwelt in the cities of Hebron".

J.D. Speaking of Colossians, would you say a few words on that as to the true christian position there?

J.T. You get that properly in chapter 2. He begins by saying that he is combating for them. That is what

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we are dealing with. Prayer has a great place in it but the word 'combat', which is peculiar to Colossians, in this setting, is used because of the terrible influence against you at this juncture to keep you out of the heavenly land. So he begins by telling them: "For I would have you know what combat I have for you, and those in Laodicea, and as many as have not seen my face in flesh; to the end that their hearts may be encouraged, being united together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the full knowledge of the mystery of God; in which are hid all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge", Colossians 2:1 - 3. That is a matter of prayer on his part, that the saints might know that they do not need to go out of their circumstances for the knowledge of the mystery of God. Then it goes on to circumcision -- the total putting away of the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ. Then there is no need of philosophers and the like. All the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Christ bodily towards them, and they are complete in Him towards God: "and ye are complete in him", Colossians 2:10. Then "buried with him in baptism, in which ye have been also raised with him through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead", Colossians 2:12. Then they are quickened with Him. They are on the way to Canaan, not yet in it; they are at Gilgal. The twelve stones at Gilgal mean they are up out of death through faith in the power of God. They are quickened, too, in association with Christ there.

J.D. I was wondering as to the intelligence of the Colossians there. Do you think the apostle is speaking with the priestly feelings that he had, having been stirred by the report from Epaphras, when he says, "In which ye have been also raised with him through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead". Would that be subjective knowledge?

J.T. It is a question of faith in the operation of God. The quickening is a subjective thing. It is not by faith,

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it is actual. That is the work of God, and made to correspond with the position that I have laid hold of by faith. In chapter 3 I can set my mind on things above; I have power to do that.

J.D. The same character of faith as in Romans 5? So in Colossians it would be on the same principle.

J.T. It is through faith of the working of God that raised Christ.

G.W.H. Is the second chapter largely negative?

J.T. Quickening is a positive thing; it is taking a person out of one position and putting him into another. It is the "faith of the working of God", Colossians 2:12. The working of God implies that the waters of Jordan were driven back, so we are in the assembly free of death. There would be affection and intelligence suitable to the position.

J.D. "Which he wrought in the Christ in raising him from among the dead", Ephesians 1:20.

J.T. Yes. It runs on to setting "him down at his right hand in the heavenlies". Colossians does not take us that far.

G.W.H. Are we in Joshua 5 here? Israel encamped in Gilgal and held the passover in the plains of Jericho. Then in verse 11 they ate the old corn of the land.

J.T. Yes, it is what has been called entering; not exactly having entered. It is the process of entering in Colossians.

E.H.T. Translation is the objective; would quickening be the subjective?

J.T. Quite so. We are brought into that realm by faith.

Ques. Is the principle of David asking if he shall go up seen in Caleb when he said: "And now give me this mountain, of which Jehovah spoke in that day", Joshua 14:12?

J.T. Yes. We see how the energy of Caleb enters into this position of David. He would be acquainted

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with all that surrounded Hebron because the history of Caleb centred in Hebron.

Rem. He had the whole position. He desired the mountain but Joshua gave him Hebron for an inheritance.

W.B. It is the place where Samson carried the gates of Gazah.

J.T. All that enters into this.

S.McC. In 1 Chronicles 12, Jehoiada and Zadok are specially mentioned. They are priestly men.

J.T. Great numbers came from all the tribes, but those two men are mentioned by name, showing that it is the priestly thought. Perhaps we have not associated priesthood with Colossians much because it is a gentile epistle. It is particularly a gentile epistle, but the priesthood is there just as much as in Hebrews. Epaphras is the great priest. Paul wrote the letter and he says, "For I would have you know what combat I have for you".

Ques. Is there not a marked contrast with Eli in the way David received this message? He had priestly power to move on.

J.T. That is good. Eli fell back and broke his neck. That priesthood must go. It does not answer to God.

G.W.H. Say a word about the manna and the victuals and the old corn of the land.

J.T. The victuals allude to the position, meaning there was great strength needed for the journey across. Some of us were noticing not long since that Jehovah says: "remember now what Balak ... consulted ... from Shittim unto Gilgal, that ye may know the righteousness of Jehovah", Micah 6:5. Shittim was the last wilderness encampment. The journey from there was an arduous one and hence the need for food to support them in it, and in the lodging, too, before they actually crossed over.

G.W.H. Crossing the Jordan was a great act. It requires special strength for death.

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J.T. You need strength to die.

G.W.H. Do you mean death in the present sense?

J.T. One has to face the thing. The next point after Shittim is the Jordan. You come to death. "How wilt thou then do in the swelling of the Jordan?" Jeremiah 12:5. The point is, What shall I do in the swelling of Jordan? What will God do in the swelling of Jordan? The ark was in the Jordan until the people passed over. The apostle says, "But we ourselves had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not have our trust in ourselves, but in God who raises the dead; who has delivered us from so great a death, and does deliver; in whom we confide that he will also yet deliver", 2 Corinthians 1:9,10. He had the sentence of death in himself.

J.D. Would Jacob help? He gathered up his feet in bed and expired.

J.T. He died in power.

G.A.T. The Lord died with a loud voice.

J.T. That is the idea. The Lord in John's gospel died Himself.

F.R.A. What does it mean, "... have your mind on the things that are above ...", Colossians 3:2? What are the things?

J.T. It is right to say Jesus is there. Stephen looks in and sees the glory of God (that is one of the things), and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. He is the central thought. At the Jordan you are intelligent; your mind is on heavenly things, "Things which eye has not seen, and ear not heard", 1 Corinthians 2:9. You want to see them. Where are they? They belong to "that world, and the resurrection", Luke 20:35. "Things ... above", not 'things in heaven'. I am learning to value what is morally elevated.

G.W.H. Does the fear of death hold us from entering?

J.T. It does -- the crossing of the Jordan. It is intended to bear on us in assembly where there is no water at all. There is no water seen.

E.H.T. The journey from Shittim to Gilgal is a time

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of learning to set our minds on the things that are above.

J.T. That is it.

J.D. How do you view the loaf and the cup? You referred to Jordan as intended to affect us with a view to coming together in assembly.

J.T. The Lord's supper properly belongs to the wilderness. Shittim would be the last encampment for that. They moved out of Shittim and came to Jordan. As entering into our assembly meetings, it would mean taking new ground after the partaking of the Supper. The great consideration and concern is to keep your place, that you do not go forward, that you do not get too near the ark; you are reverential -- two thousand cubits is nearly three thousand feet.

S.McC. So what follows that comment in Micah 6 is: "Wherewith shall I come before Jehovah ... ?"

J.T. That is where you learn to be reverential, you have respect for the ark. The ark going before is the love of Christ. "For the love of the Christ constrains us, having judged this: that one died for all, then all have died; and he died for all, that they who live should no longer live to themselves, but to him who died for them and has been raised. So that we henceforth know no one according to flesh", 2 Corinthians 5:14 - 16. All that enters into this. You learn to respect the ark -- that He is alone there. He went ahead two thousand cubits. As soon as the priests' feet touched the waters, they were driven back. "What ailed thee, thou sea, that thou fleddest? thou Jordan, that thou turnedst back?" Psalm 114:5. It is the presence of Jehovah. God is there in Jesus entering into death.

J.D. Is that thought present in your mind as you look at the loaf?

J.T. I think so.

W.B. The ark stood in the middle of the river and the people all passed it. They must have gone close to the ark at that time.

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J.T. It is the power of Christ as regards death. Death is still publicly holding sway. The graveyards are not any less since the death of Christ than they were before. Death is on all men; people are not being raised, death is still here. So that the Jordan came back in all its force after the people had passed over. It is a faith position, the "faith of the working of God" Colossians 2:12. The quickening enables you to enjoy it -- that you are in a deathless state of things on the principle of faith. Without the presence of the Holy Spirit here there could be nothing like that.

J.D. It does not say that Satan had its power, but he has its power.

E.G.McA. The word "annulled" would mean that it is just held powerless for the time.

J.T. That is the idea. It is annulled.

S.McC. Would the quickening involve that it is not mere theory, but that it is real?

J.T. Quite so. If the Holy Spirit were not here, it would be only theory. Colossians has in mind not only the Spirit but the effect of the Spirit. The Spirit is mentioned only once -- "your love in the Spirit", Colossians 1:8. It is the thing that is effected in me in Colossians.

J.B. Quickening would be to live in the life of Christ.

J.T. It is a real thing. You have entered on new ground. In the power of the Spirit you are able to take up new ground and to enjoy the old corn which belongs to heaven.

E.H.T. Could you cross over without being in the life of Christ?

J.T. It is in the life of Christ you cross over -- that same life in which He came up.

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PRIESTHOOD (4)

2 Samuel 7:18 - 29; 2 Samuel 15:30 - 32

J.T. We finished this morning with the consideration of David ascending to Hebron. Following that incident we have a touch of priesthood in chapter 5. It says in verse 19: "And David inquired of Jehovah, saying, Shall I go up against the Philistines? wilt thou give them into my hand? And Jehovah said to David, Go up; for I will certainly give the Philistines into thy hand". Then it goes on to say in verse 22: "And the Philistines came up yet again, and spread themselves in the valley of Rephaim. And David inquired of Jehovah; and he said, Thou shalt not go up; turn round behind them and come upon them opposite the mulberry-trees. And it shall be, when thou hearest a sound of marching in the tops of the mulberry-trees, that then thou shalt bestir thyself; for then will Jehovah have gone forth before thee, to smite the army of the Philistines. And David did so, as Jehovah had commanded him; and smote the Philistines from Geba until thou comest to Gezer".

It may be well, before we arrive at the sixth chapter which was read this morning, just to touch on these passages in the fifth chapter which show how priesthood enters into military operations. The divine answers to the prayers disregard ordinary military tactics; we have to learn from God as to details in conflicts. We have, for instance, the sound of marching in the tops of the mulberry-trees in verse 24. David was not to go up as in verse 19, but to "turn round behind them and come upon them opposite the mulberry-trees".

E.G.McA. We do not often associate priesthood with military ideas.

J.T. I think we should just touch on it.

W.B. This morning we had weapons. Now it is tactics.

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J.T. That is good. We noticed that Saul's instruments of war perished. Some of us have been occupied with the wars of the Lord in a series of meetings, and we were noticing that each battle in the wars of the Lord brings out something distinctive. In Joshua we have the first great battle at Jericho, then at Ai, then at Gibeon, and then at Merom; each one bringing out something distinctive in Joshua. The tactics at Jericho were wholly different -- the marching round the city six days and then on the seventh day seven times. At Ai, after the sin of Achan is judged and Israel is restored, the instructions are very particular. The lessons that are learned are remarkable. It is said to be a small city by the spies sent out by Joshua, but Joshua is to attack with all Israel. There were certain sent as ambush; the principle of an ambush is stressed in that attack, and it is similar here; not exactly an ambush but it is a similar movement, this second instruction against the Philistines: "turn round behind them and come upon them opposite the mulberry-trees". An ambush spiritually is some circumstance that arises in which what is of God may be concealed, designedly so, but it draws out the enemy into exposure. It drew out the men of Ai; it exposed them. The circumstance is in a sense deceptive. So that if God wishes to expose something in us that may be concealed, it is drawn out, the ambush exposes it, and it is overcome. Those tactics at Ai are somewhat similar to what we have here, and teach us the importance of warfare, as the enemy attacks, to get the mind of God; whether it is a frontal attack we make or whether we are to go behind.

J.D. In the history of the testimony during these last hundred years, the enemy has attacked in ways similar to what we have here.

J.T. I think so. Every attack is distinguished, and the battles of Ai and Gibeon were preceded by failure on the part of Israel. That had to be met. When

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failure precedes a conflict, the responsible ones have to feel that. The tactics described imply they are not so distinguished as they had been. At Ai Joshua goes down into the valley. First he lodges with the people. We have to get down alongside of the saints and be one of them, instead of maintaining great distinction from past advantages. He has to go down into the valley; he has a javelin which he has to hold out, and he holds it out until the victory is complete. It is onerous sort of work for a general to do. At Jericho it was, 'You are not to shout until I shout', and they did not. But now he lodges with the people and he goes down into the valley where they allowed themselves to be beaten. A very humiliating thing for a general to do but it is a wholesome experience and it all ends with the complete overthrow of Ai.

J.D. This attack of the Philistines was made after they had "heard that they had anointed David king". Would it suggest that the enemy hates the idea of the saints giving Christ His place as Lord, so he attacks? It is one thing he will not stand for.

J.T. Quite. You will notice that it says: "And the Philistines heard that they had anointed David king over Israel, and all the Philistines went up to seek David; and David heard of it, and went down to the stronghold. And the Philistines came and spread themselves in the valley of Rephaim". They would attempt to make a big show.

E.G.McA. Is the suggestion here that the priesthood never acts upon precedent, but rather upon dependence upon God?

J.T. That is a good suggestion. Every conflict calls for the need of fresh guidance; something is to came out of it. Why are mulberry-trees mentioned here? David has to wait to hear. The priest has to have a good ear and so has the general, but it is the priestly element underlying these military operations.

E.G.McA. What is the idea of the mulberry-trees?

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J.T. I do not know. They are a circumstance. They are trees that grew there.

E.G.McA. They are not large trees. There is nothing pretentious about them.

J.T. No. I expect they must mean some local condition. They are not conspicuous -- they are not cedars. Cedars would not do for this operation. Mulberry-trees are low and they flatten out on the top, so that there is the sound of marching on the tops of them. They are a circumstance; they afford God an opportunity to show what He is doing in giving guidance to us. They are not opposed to us.

G.W.H. Was the defeat at Ai largely due to Joshua?

J.T. He is the one who is distinctively a leader, but not so much an official or dignified leader. He lodges with the people. Perhaps if he had been more among the brethren he would have discerned what Achan had done. He did not know that Achan had done this or that Israel had sinned. But he says, as it were, I think it is well to be among the brethren and be one of them as much as possible. So he goes down into the valley where the brunt of the thing is, and accepts the humiliation of being beaten. He is one that went up to the city and then retired as being beaten. That is very humiliating but it drew out what was there.

G.W.H. "Loose thy sandal from off thy foot: for the place whereon thou standest is holy", Joshua 5:15. When he was listening to his men was his sandal on again?

J.T. Yes, he had his sandal on again. The taking off of the sandal would be to place him on holy ground.

G.W.H. He was a dependent man in that attitude with his sandal off. It says, "For as captain of the army of Jehovah am I now come", Joshua 5:14.

J.T. Which is a much wider thought than the hosts of Israel, because here there was an army marching in the tops of the mulberry-trees of which David

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knew nothing. It was an auxiliary altogether outside of his forces. We recognise God in the conflict and see that He is unlimited.

E.G.McA. In this, "And it shall be, when thou hearest a sound of marching in the tops of the mulberry-trees, that then thou shalt bestir thyself", the priestly instincts wait until they get something distinctive from the Lord before they make a move themselves. Often we run ahead of the Lord.

J.T. You are not doing this yourself. It is Jehovah. The sound of marching is on some other orders than mine. The order of march was not given by David, but by God.

Rem. Referring to the thought of the general, he would not go beyond orders from headquarters.

J.T. Just so. He is really not a general at all. A general means complete command, so that Jehovah is really the general. David is just a subordinate officer. That is important -- that God is the general.

J.B. He is recognised in the next chapter as "Jehovah of hosts". In this practical way the sound of the marching would prove not only that he had hosts but that he is "Jehovah of hosts".

J.T. That is the thing to get hold of. Elisha says, "Jehovah, I pray thee, open his eyes that he may see. And Jehovah opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw; and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha", 2 Kings 6:17. So that it says in Psalm 68:17, "The chariots of God are twenty thousand, thousands upon thousands; the Lord is among them".

S.W.P. The enemy comes up in both these instances using the same tactics and spreading themselves in the same location, the valley of Rephaim. It says in verse 20: "And David came to Baal-perazim, and David smote them there". Then in verse 25: "And David did so, as Jehovah had commanded him; and smote

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the Philistines from Geba until thou comest to Gezer". What is the significance of the change there?

J.T. Notice the meaning of the word, Baal-perazim -- 'place of breaches'. The battle evidently gave the name to the place; it was a place of breaches. He called it that name. That gives him the right of way, naming the place of the battle as the name derived from his victory. In the second battle he "smote the Philistines from Geba until thou comest to Gezer". There are the same tactics on their part but the principal feature of their tactics is to make a show, to make everything appear big. But David is out of sight in the second attack and it is God. What could they do in the presence of such power? What do they know about the sound of marching in the tops of the mulberry-trees? It had never occurred -- therefore never would occur. The word was: "... then thou shalt bestir thyself; for then will Jehovah have gone forth before thee, to smite the army of the Philistines". The second attack brings out the presence of God and keeps the servant, or leader, in his place of dependence. This second experience has more in it for David so that he would be less elated by the victory. It was God's victory.

J.D. In waiting for the sound in connection with an attack on the testimony, would it test the state of the priesthood?

J.T. That is right. That is what proceeds. What one has observed is that God is really dealing with our state in these things. You have gained a great victory at Baal-perazim, and if you get a second like that it may take you off your feet. You want to be preserved in prayer, in priestly state. After all it is not you -- it is God, as in the first word in the battles of the Lord: "Jehovah will fight for you", Exodus 14:14. The Lord says, 'You are so immature, so inexperienced, that I will not lead you in the way of the Philistines'. They were powerful men according to the flesh. He would not bring them that way lest they would turn

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back when they saw war. Moses says, "Fear not: stand still, and see the salvation of Jehovah, which he will work for you today", Exodus 14:13. He fights for you, and that is how you learn war. David is a warrior but he is dependent. That is very beautiful. He is relying on God, not on his own ability; the priestly state is so much in evidence that even in that in which he excels he does not rely on himself.

W.B. David had slain Goliath of Gath but he goes to Gath when he is persecuted by Saul. Now we see David victorious again over the Philistines although in the meantime they had slain Saul and his three sons, and had gained a great victory over God's people.

J.T. It is a great test as to where I am spiritually when an opportunity offers where I can use what I have to the best advantage. You do not rely on yourself under any circumstances. You might say, 'Well, I can attack that; I can write something to refute that', but the Lord may not want you to do that.

G.W.H. "Hitherto Jehovah has helped us", 1 Samuel 7:12.

J.T. Quite so. He has always helped you but still you want to be sure He is going to help you now.

J.D. What form do you think the sound of marching in the tops of the mulberry-trees would take today?

J.T. The suggestion is that it is a military movement that God Himself is making: "then will Jehovah have gone forth". It is God's doing; it is His way. You see the hand of God in something; you see that He is moving in the thing.

Ques. Is it through the priesthood that we are brought to know the power of God? When God led the people through the Red Sea, the priesthood was established and operating and then the Egyptians attack.

J.T. It was God's consideration there. It was the learning time, the initial movement, so that it is, "Jehovah will fight for you", Exodus 14:14. He considers young christians

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for instance. He does not bring them into the conflict at once lest they turn back. Some have done that. It is well not to put too much on young people. But now we have the most skilled military leader and he is not relying on his skill or experience. He sees the priesthood is greater than military skill.

E.G.McA. In Hebrews, where the priesthood is brought out so fully, the apostle accuses them of being dull of hearing.

J.T. That is a good point. Joshua, great leader that he became, heard a sound in Israel's camp and said it was the sound of war. Moses said it was not the sound of war at all. Joshua would have misled the people through bad hearing. We have to learn how to hear.

F.R.A. Do we get here the difference between defeat and dislodgment? They gave way in the first instance and in the second they were defeated.

J.T. Yes, and the extent of the battle ground is greater in the second: "and smote the Philistines from Geba until thou comest to Gezer". The suggestion is that the ground covered is greater. The result of the first battle is that they left their images there and David and his men took them away. There is result in the overthrow of idolatry in the first conflict. But in the second the ground gained is more extensive and definite.

E.G.McA. Why is it that after these two experiences under the leading of God, David takes it upon himself to bring up the ark and does it in the wrong way. One would think that his priestly instincts had been so developed that he would have known what to do.

J.T. That is just what we were saying; as with Joshua, there was breakdown. He is like a Philistine in using thirty thousand men in bringing up the ark. That is not necessary. He is on military lines instead of priestly lines. In chapter 6:12 it says: "And it was told king David, saying, Jehovah has blessed the

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house of Obed-Edom, and all that is his, because of the ark of God. And David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obed-Edom into the city of David with joy". There is not a word about the thirty thousand men. He has come back to his priestly state. He had been very efficient as a priest. In every instance he gains through it. We have to watch that, too. I may have a reputation for spirituality and discernment and God may see fit to humble me.

J.W.D. It says, "And it was told king David", the challenge is as to whether he had learned the lesson regarding the assembling of the mighty men.

J.T. He is still king but his concern now is to get the blessing. He would say, 'King though I am, I have been missing something. Why? Because I have failed in my priestly discernment'. As a matter of fact there was a bit of pride in the show he was making. These are very important lessons and if I am a little bit distinguished, this is the sort of thing I have to face. The house of Obed-Edom is blessed and my house is not, and I am king!

W.B. Why does it say, "Obed-Edom the Gittite"? That means he was a Philistine.

J.T. That means he was a converted one. He has not lost his public character.

G.A.T. He was a man going on quietly with God, enjoying God's blessing and the testimony of that went out from his house.

J.T. He has afforded a residence for the ark -- he is getting the blessing.

G.A.T. Like the chief man of the island in Acts 28. Blessing went out of his house and all the people come to it.

J.T. Just so. The barbarians showed them "no common kindness", Acts 28:2.

E.G.McA. In 1 Chronicles 15:1 it says, "And he made him houses in the city of David, and prepared a place for the ark of God, and spread a tent for it". In

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this chapter there is no preparation for the reception of the ark.

J.T. Chronicles brings out the bright side more. Samuel is more historical. The second book is severe on David. That is the word that runs through this second book -- he should know better. In every instance it is that sort of thing. It is not a young christian failing but one of experience. It is an old christian with great experience and there is no excuse for him.

G.A.T. Do you think the thirty thousand men would suggest the idea of protecting the ark with fleshly energy?

J.T. I think so. Although David had overcome the Philistines, their principles are overcoming him. So it says, "And David arose and went with all the people that were with him from Baale-Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God which is called by the name, the name of Jehovah of hosts who sitteth between the cherubim. And they set the ark of God upon a new cart", 2 Samuel 6:2,3. That is a Philistine thought. You would have seen them do the same sort of thing; they are handling the things of God in a natural way.

G.W.H. Abinadab had the ark twenty years but had no sensibility as to how it should have been taken out of his house, and David was no better.

J.T. Abinadab's sons drove the cart. In the fifth chapter David gained two great victories, but the Philistine influence has overcome him. Now we have thirty thousand men and a cart. That is very displeasing to God because David should have known better.

G.A.T. If I am in system and I become exercised about the place in which I am and I leave, I might carry the same principles with me and set them up in another way.

J.T. That is true. The Lord, before He introduced the assembly in Matthew, not only left the Pharisees and Sadducees but He "went away". He put a distance between Him and them. Then immediately, in speaking

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to them about bread, He says, "See and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees", Matthew 16:6. You may leave them but bring the leaven with you. David certainly overthrew the Philistines and that is the principle of the thing now -- leaving the thing but perhaps bringing the principle of it with us.

J.B. And it will work.

J.T. Yes. David's action is all the more inexcusable. Psalm 132:1 - 6 says: "Jehovah, remember for David all his affliction; How he swore unto Jehovah, vowed unto the Mighty One of Jacob: I will not come into the tent of my house, I will not go up to the couch of my bed; I will not give sleep to mine eyes, slumber to mine eyelids, Until I find out a place for Jehovah, habitations for the Mighty One of Jacob ... . Behold, we heard of it at Ephratah, we found it in the fields of the wood". That is the allusion here. If he had those thoughts in his heart, why did he allow the Philistine ideas, thirty thousand men and a cart? That shows how susceptible we are to incongruous mixtures. You see an able, godly man, yet he goes in for worldly show in his family and what not; incongruous mixtures, and we are all susceptible to these things. God knows what is in a man's heart, and hence we have all this discipline.

Ques. How should the ark have been brought up? The oxen are marked by stability but here God allows them to stumble. Was it to teach David that the ark was not to be carried that way?

J.T. The ark was to be borne by the sons of Kohath. Kohath was the second son of Levi, but in the ministry he has the first place. He represents the most spiritual element of Levi. When they are nearing the Jordan, the Levites are called priests, meaning that there must be spirituality in dealing with things of the Deity; the incarnation of Christ must be handled with the utmost care. This, therefore, was a gross error. Uzzah's death, like Achan's, was only to bring home to Israel what God thought of the whole system. And David became

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indignant! Think of a man becoming indignant because God does something! That is what we are capable of.

G.A.T. We are not affected like that now, are we?

J.T. That lesson is that we should not be. These things are written, not that God would expose His servant, but that we should not fall into the same error -- especially in relation to the deity and the incarnation.

G.A.T. Any complaint that I have against God's actings is the same thing.

J.T. It says: "So David would not bring the ark of Jehovah home unto himself ...". Think of a man's will exercised in that way -- he "would not bring the ark of Jehovah home unto himself". I am in such a state that I am not going to afford a residence for God. How solemn in a great man like David! "But David carried it aside into the house of Obed-Edom the Gittite. And the ark of Jehovah remained in the house of Obed-Edom the Gittite three months; and Jehovah blessed Obed-Edom and all his household". As much as to say, David, this is what you are losing. My eye on the ark. You are king, of course, but the blessing is with Obed-Edom's house.

E.G.McA. Again the official fails.

J.T. That is the thought. Now it says in verse 12: "And it was told king David, saying, Jehovah has blessed the house of Obed-Edom, and all that is his, because of the ark of God". David had despised it.

G.W.H. He had had three bad months after the failure in not bringing it up and not wanting it. He has three months of dreadful exercise.

J.T. That is right. We may be sure that God made him feel it that he was robbed of the blessing, with all his titles.

G.A.T. What does the ark in a man's house mean?

J.T. It would mean that in a lowly way it affords a residence for Christ. As we get in John 14:22,23: one says, "Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself to us and not to the world? Jesus answered and said to

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him, If any one love me" (that is the secret of it), "he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him". It is a question of love. We are not told why the ark was particularly carried aside to the house of Obed-Edom, but the fact is that it was and he got blessing. If I want to get blessing I want to make tabernacle conditions. That is a fine expression. John 14 teaches us tabernacle conditions, and these conditions may be found in one brother. I am referring to Exodus which gives us tabernacle conditions. Jehovah invited up Moses and Aaron, and Nadab and Abihu and seventy of the elders of Israel. It says, "And they saw the God of Israel; and there was under his feet as it were work of transparent sapphire, and as it were the form of heaven for clearness. And on the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: they saw God, and ate and drank", Exodus 24:9 - 11. The next chapter tells us that God says, 'I would like to dwell among you. You have been dwelling with me, now I would like to dwell with you'. And He prescribes the conditions. The material is to come from the people. Love provides the conditions: the gold, the silver, and the copper; the blue, purple and scarlet; the goats' hair and the rams' skins dyed red, etc. All these materials are provided by the people to make tabernacle conditions that "I may dwell among them". That is John 14.

G.A.T. Could Zacchaeus tell us something about that?

J.T. Just so. The Lord says to him, "today I must remain in thy house", Luke 19:5. Zacchaeus valued that and received Him gladly. He valued the thought of the Lord being in his house. The Lord says, "Today salvation is come to this house" (verse 9). Of how many houses can that be said? The ark was there. That is the point the Lord makes in John 14.

J.D. In regard to John 14, it is, "If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love

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him, as we will come to him and make our abode with him".

J.T. The result of keeping His word, you know. First He says in verse 21: "He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me; but he that loves me shall be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will manifest myself to him". The earlier verses refer to collective privilege that followed on Pentecost when the Spirit came down. Verses 21 and 23 contemplate remnant conditions and when the Lord says, "He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me"; there you see how tabernacle conditions are reached. I begin by keeping the commandments. Then Judas says, "Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself to us and not to the world?" The Lord answers, "If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him", etc. Keeping the word is more than the commandments. They are more what is outward but then I want to have the inward thought -- the mind of God -- and the word of Christ kept implies that inwardly I am in keeping with God.

J.D. Impartation, as you said last night.

E.G.McA. Do commandments set me right before the world, and does keeping His word imply formation?

J.T. Exactly; that I have the mind of God. "For he spoke, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast", Psalm 33:9. The mind of God is known by the one that keeps the word. That is what I mean by tabernacle conditions, and they might be with one person in any place -- a very precious thought in these days, I think.

J.B. "I will not give sleep to mine eyes, slumber to mine eyelids, Until I find out a place for Jehovah, habitations for the Mighty One of Jacob", Psalm 132:4,5. Would he not learn from Obed-Edom?

J.T. I think he had those thoughts before, still he would no doubt say something to Obed-Edom and get

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instruction. Obed-Edom could entertain him in that he was right himself. King though he was, he would listen to Obed-Edom as to what he enjoyed as to the ark. The psalm says, "Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness, and let thy saints shout for joy", Psalm 132:9. That is what they missed here. The historical psalms are important in dealing with this subject.

J.D. Will you say a word on verse 13? "And it was so, that when they that bore the ark of Jehovah had gone six paces, he sacrificed an ox and a fatted beast".

J.T. That is the next thing. It seems to me the six paces would mean that we have gone on pretty well now; we are restored; God has come in for us and we are going on pretty well. But there is another pace to be taken. We have to understand the numbers spiritually. He would revert back to what happened. Discipline is beyond words if something like this happened again. When six paces had been taken he sacrificed an ox and a fatted beast. The ox is a sure-footed animal. There is no doubt about that. Good and well if the sure-footedness is transferred to a christian -- if it is in me. Some people do not like the Old Testament. They forget it was written for us. If I am literal, I am using the figure instead of the substance. The New Testament is the substance. If I think of a sure-footed creature like an ox, then the point is that it is sure-footedness in myself; that I keep my foot in the house of God and that I might be more swift to hear than to speak.

G.A.T. In contrast to "swift their feet to shed blood", Romans 3:15.

W.B. In verse 6 the oxen shook the ark on the cart, but they seemed to be in their proper place in connection with the sacrifice.

J.T. Yes. In the end of verse 6 it says they broke loose, which is to say, it is myself -- my will is in the thing. "Broken loose" would mean that the ox was

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not keeping in his place in the harness. It was David's will, that is what is meant. The ox is good enough -- not the will, but the foot. It is the sure-footedness of a saint as he goes to the house of God; he is well balanced.

David sacrifices that -- he is thinking of the walk of Jesus. Mary saw those feet six days before the passover and she anointed them. They were carrying the Lord surely and steadily to the cross. David is afraid there might be another breaking forth and he sacrifices the ox and fatted beast. In faith he sees Jesus. I am not going to allow my will now -- it is sacrifice, and that directs the mind to Christ.

E.G.McA. Walking in love.

J.T. Quite so. John the baptist saw the Lord walking and called Him the Lamb of God. The word 'Lamb' denotes what is sacrificial. That Lamb is going to die.

J.D. In David's mind he identified the ox with the ark of the covenant.

J.T. Mary saw that His own feet were carrying Him.

G.A.T. In verse 6 the ox stumbled. Then he sacrifices it.

J.T. It was not according to his nature. His nature is sure-footedness but his will is at work in the breaking loose. He was not subject.

G.A.T. I find I have to sacrifice what would be a hindrance to me in order to go on rightly.

J.T. Quite so. Whatever David might have thought, the sacrifices refer to Christ. The true thought is in the sacrifice.

J.D. There had been a lack of priestly feelings but it says immediately, "David was girded with a linen ephod". The priestly feelings are once more in evidence.

J.T. Quite so. There had been thirty thousand men instead of the ephod, which is incongruous. Why did he not have the ephod before? It is linen; it is balance you want. Linen is sobriety, self-control -- the fruit of the Spirit.

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G.A.T. Hearing all about Christ will not do except I make it my own.

J.T. Instead of the great number of soldiers, you have himself active in a priestly way. It says: "And David danced before Jehovah with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. And David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of Jehovah with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet". The whole scene is sanctified now and instead of the power of the army it is David himself in all his might, but it is priestly might.

G.A.T. He is in the good of what he had heard about.

J.T. Quite so. It is before Jehovah. His heart is drawn out and he is discrediting himself in the eyes of the natural, in the eyes of his wife, but he says, "It was before Jehovah".

G.W.H. Why the six paces?

J.T. Seven is the usual number in mind in numbers given in this way. Six is more than human but it does not preclude the possibility of failure. Seven is the perfect thing. Before you reach the seventh you might fail.

G.W.H. He sacrifices before he takes the seventh. He would secure himself there.

J.T. The sacrifice is the anticipation of the perfection of the walk of Christ. The gospels give us that. In going to the cross there was no misstep at all; everything was perfectly right.

S.McC. In verse 12 it says: "And David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obed-Edom into the city of David with joy"; in the 15th verse it says: "And David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of Jehovah", and in the 17th verse: "And they brought in the ark of Jehovah". Would there be progress in that?

J.T. I think so. It is a term of mutuality under these circumstances without mentioning the persons.

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Just as in the singing of the hymn in Matthew and Mark; "they" sang, without saying who. It is the mutual side. A state of mutuality had developed in the procedure which is very beautiful. How all were merging in the holy feelings of the moment! We all seem to merge in the same feelings; we get into touch with one another.

W.B. Michal was outside. She was just in the pride of her father's house with natural sort of feelings.

J.T. She was outside this "they" of mutuality and of sharing in the holy feelings that were proceeding.

G.W.H. She thought she was right.

J.T. She did. She gives reasons too, "as one of the lewd fellows". David answers most nobly; he is ready to abase himself.

Rem. She was at a distance.

J.T. Think of her looking out on the one who honours Christ and despising him! He was honouring God in Christ.

Ques. Is the mutuality the outcome of being girded with a linen ephod?

J.T. I think so. The linen means that whatever distinction God gives you, the greatest thing is that you are one of the brethren. There will be no distinction of gift in heaven. Love is the great thought and love will place you alongside of the least distinguished. The handmaids in the mind of Michal were of no account at all.

E.G.McA. She had before her the reputation of her husband, which might be the case with any of us. He had given up his dignity as king. She said, "How honourable did the king of Israel make himself today". In the carrying of the ark and putting it in its proper place in the affections of the brethren, one's reputation may go to pieces.

J.T. The circle of the brethren is such a wonderful circle. It is the circle of eternal life, the land of promise provisionally. We are told in verse 16 what was in her

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heart, "she despised him in her heart". And she is awaiting her opportunity to tell him. It says in verse 17: "And they brought in the ark of Jehovah, and set it in its place, in the midst of the tent that David had spread for it". He had made provision. Then it says, "And when David had ended offering up the burnt-offerings and the peace-offerings, he blessed the people in the name of Jehovah of hosts". Now he is a true priest in blessing them. The Lord blessed His disciples as He ascended up to heaven. "And he dealt to all the people, to the whole multitude of Israel, both men and women, to every one a cake of bread, and a measure of wine, and a raisin-cake. And all the people departed every one to his house. And David returned to bless his household". Michal would have come in for the blessing but she is not ready for it; her naughty will is at work. Her line is extinct, which is a result of the solemn judgment of God.

G.A.T. If Christ gets His true place amongst us, is this the result?

J.T. It is. There are those that make much of David and they are despised. God hates that. Now that he has his place, David becomes a worshipper and a blesser. He almost rises to a type of Christ here in blessing everybody.

Rem. "I will abundantly bless her provision; I will satisfy her needy ones with bread", Psalm 132:15.

J.T. That shows how that historical psalm covers the whole position. The bread is being distributed and poor Michal is going to miss the blessing.

S.W.P. It is distributed to both men and women.

Rem. She had only seen things through the window. It must be a dangerous place in which to be.

J.T. Yes, indeed. Through a window is not the way to look at Christ.

G.W.H. Would the Supper lead to these conditions of mutuality and response?

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J.T. That is the intent of it. After it was finished, they sang an hymn. Now what part does the Lord have in that? They sang it.

Ques. You remarked that the circle of the brethren is a great thing. How is it great?

J.T. It affords a heavenly atmosphere -- the land of promise -- where divine things are enjoyed.

J.D. That hymn has been kept from us.

J.T. Yes, it has. The Lord says, You do likewise. They did it -- it is what they did. In meetings like this we talk about those who minister but the thing to reach is everlasting life, of holy, mutual feeling, alongside of one another in the Spirit.

E.G.McA. Would you say a word as to eternal life being connected with the circle of the brethren?

J.T. We were speaking last night about the realm of salvation. "I will give salvation in Zion", Isaiah 46:13. I will give it there, "thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise" (Isaiah 60:18), meaning that the thing is there. When a name is given it means the thing is there. Salvation is there; who can question it? It is not a matter of doctrine but of fact. Every young christian, if he is sincere, proves it. How different it is in the brethren's houses and the meetings, from the workshops or the street! There is a different atmosphere. I am not tempted to do things amongst the brethren -- out in the street I am. It is the power of Satan out there. The walls are called Salvation. So in regard of life eternal; it is "like the precious oil upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, upon Aaron's beard, that ran down to the hem of his garments; As the dew of Hermon that descendeth on the mountains of Zion; for there hath Jehovah commanded the blessing", Psalm 133:2,3. There it is -- He commanded it there, "life for evermore". The circle of the saints is like all those wonderful things: "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!"

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E.G.McA. God exceeds David's request. He says: "I will clothe her priests with salvation", Psalm 132:16.

J.T. He does, and Psalm 133 follows immediately upon that passage.

G.A.T. He provided a place for the Lord to sing.

J.B. The singing would be typical of heavenly joy -- the joy of heaven brought down.

J.T. The subject of worship comes in properly in chapters 7 and 15 so that, if the Lord permit, we might finish with that and link it on with the New Testament tomorrow afternoon.

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PRIESTHOOD (5)

1 Corinthians 15:24 - 28; 1 Chronicles 29:10 - 20

J.T. The verses read in 1 Corinthians show clearly the end, in a general way of course, but inclusive of our subject, that is, God is the end -- "that God may be all in all". The operations of Christ mediatorially as Son, His services, are all to that end, in regard to each of us, to the assembly, then to Israel and the nations.

The passages read in 2 Samuel yesterday afternoon and which we were unable to dwell upon, were in chapters 7 and 15 which we may profitably touch as we proceed. Particularly that in chapter 7 because it brings out the thought of sonship for the first time in the types we have been looking at.

Our subject from the outset of these five readings has been priesthood as seen in 1 and 2 Samuel, but particularly in David. We saw it first of all in Hannah, who shone in prayer and faith and poetic contribution in the service of God. Then we saw it in Samuel who exhibited the qualities of a priest. Although not formally installed as a priest (not being of the sons of Aaron he was scarcely qualified to be a priest), he was a priest actually and practically, and in more ways than one he influenced Israel. He led them to repentance, offered the sacrifice of the sucking lamb, and prayed for Israel so that God came in against their enemies; showing how priesthood brings in deliverance for the people of God. Then there is no longer an official place as the judge of Israel. We saw him in 1 Samuel 19 exercising leadership, or presidency, over the prophets, and great power was present to overcome evil, even to the extent of overcoming Saul in his murderous opposition to David.

Then we saw in David himself how he had liberty to appropriate the priestly food -- an important matter

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for us as entering on priesthood to know how to appropriate priestly food, the shew-bread. Then we saw how he had liberty to speak to God and to use the ephod brought to him by Abiathar and how he used it later at Ziklag and brought in deliverance again.

Then, in 2 Samuel, we saw the seemly, considerate spirit toward Saul which belongs to priesthood, especially in his regard and respect for the anointed. Then there was his petition asking Jehovah whether he should go up to one of the cities of Judah, and, finally, the bringing of the ark to Zion, which occupied us largely yesterday, and his priestly energy displayed before it.

All these instances are examples of priesthood and show us how we enter upon it and exercise it, and how it is available to believers; David illustrates the liberty that believers should have to appropriate what is available to sustain us in and fit us to exercise the priesthood.

Now, the passage in 1 Corinthians 15 is the end which we have to come to finally in our reading. It will be noticed that sonship and lordship are prominent in the passage and that sonship in Christ -- Christ as Son -- serves in view of bringing all into subjection; and that He, so as to be the Leader in this subjection (for it is perfectly seen in Him), is Himself placed in subjection finally. Wonderful fact for us, that we have a Leader in this permanently! "Then the Son also himself shall be placed in subjection to him who put all things in subjection to him, that God may be all in all". If we link that on with 2 Samuel 7, we shall see how it worked out in the types. Verse 14 says: "I will be his father, and he shall be my son". And then he says in verse 16: "And thy house and thy kingdom shall be made firm for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever. According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak to David. And king David went in and sat before Jehovah". That is the position. David is now in the house, but how?

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He is there as king but then he is there in the light of sonship in Solomon. Indeed it applies to him in Psalm 89 where it says: "He shall call unto me, Thou art my father ... And as to me, I will make him firstborn" (verses 26,27). We see here the working out of priesthood in David now in the light of sonship. He enters into the house and sits there, or, as the note suggests, tarries there; he had liberty to stay. It is a great point as regards privilege that we have liberty to enter the presence of God. There is no invitation here; he was not invited, but he goes in. He has the liberty with which, one might say, Christ sets us free, and inside he is at liberty to stay, and to speak.

J.D. "Now the bondman abides not in the house for ever: the son abides for ever", John 8:35. Does that come in here?

J.T. I think it does. It is the liberty that belongs to it.

J.D. Is your thought that there might be something like that reached by us as in assembly?

J.T. That is what is intended. Apprehending sonship in Christ, because that is what is spoken of in David, we have liberty to enter and tarry there, and speak there, too. Anyone can see by looking at what he says that he is full of God. Marvellous richness in speaking to God! Let us just look at the titles that he uses here: in verse 18, "Lord Jehovah"; in verse 19, "Lord Jehovah" and again verses 20 and 29; in verse 22, "Jehovah Elohim", a richer and fuller title; in verse 23, "the one nation in the earth that God went to redeem"; in verse 24, "thou, Jehovah, art become their God"; "Jehovah Elohim" again in verse 25 and in verse 26, "Jehovah of hosts is God over Israel"; in verse 27, "Jehovah of hosts, the God of Israel"; and then in verse 28, "Lord Jehovah, thou art that God", or, as the note reads, 'Thou art the Same, -- God'. The brethren will see how priesthood leads up to the soul being filled with God in all the

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great appellations in which He is pleased to reveal Himself.

E.G.McA. Which denotes liberty.

J.T. I think it does. There is great intelligence in the use of the titles, and he has such liberty to use them inside.

S.McC. Would the use of Jehovah Elohim show how extended David was in his thoughts, not merely confining himself to what God was to Israel?

J.T. Yes. It is His title in creation with "Jehovah" prefixed.

S.McC. It is used a good deal in the second chapter of Genesis.

J.T. Yes; more there possibly than in any other chapter of scripture. It is God creating man and entering into relationship with him.

G.A.T. Has he reached here the point you brought before us this morning about God being the end?

J.T. That is what I think we may see, connecting it up with 1 Chronicles 29 and the wonderful speech that he makes there, really amplifying what he says here. As Paul says, so wonderfully and beautifully, "For of him, and through him, and for him are all things: to him be glory for ever. Amen", Romans 11:36.

G.A.T. We used to think that the Father was the highest thought in worship. Is it right to say that God is the highest thought?

J.T. Obviously. "O depth of riches", says the apostle, "both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable his judgments, and untraceable his ways! ... For of him, and through him, and for him are all things: to him be glory for ever. Amen". That is, I think, the doxology characteristic of the New Testament. The doxologies of the epistles all help in that direction. The most spiritual men of the dispensation were worshippers. They had the right thought and we get it from them.

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J.C. In what way does priesthood touch the thought of God "all in all"?

J.T. The use of it, the service it renders, is to keep our minds clear from other thoughts. Priesthood is really a provisional thing. As far as I see, it is not final, it is not eternal. It is eternal in the sense that there is nothing coming after it like it, but it has in view the conditions surrounding us in which we are here as in the flesh. It involves intelligence and holiness so that we can keep out what is evil and all that is contrary to God. "For the priest's lips should keep knowledge" (Malachi 2:7), for instance. They are under a charge as was said last night. The exercise of priesthood is in view of present conditions. What will remain is sonship. Of course it is a son who is priest now, but when there is no evil, when there is no hindrance, when there is no double-mindedness, when all is perfect there is no need for priesthood at all. It is a provisional thought to meet all these conditions that we are conscious of as in the flesh.

J.C. That is very helpful. I wondered if, in priesthood, we arrive at the thought of God as being filled with God (as suggested in David) in His presence. It is only in priesthood that we can enter the presence of God and thus be filled with God.

J.T. Quite so. You will observe that the ephod is not in evidence in his last days. In his last great service of worship, the ephod is not in evidence. It is all there but he is filled with God, as you say. The great end is God "all in all" (not 'all and in all'). He is all as filling us so that there is nothing else.

E.G.McA. Is that a kindred thought in 2 Chronicles 5:14: "The priests could not stand to do their service because of the cloud; for the glory of Jehovah had filled the house of God".

J.T. That is a kindred thought and needs to be elucidated. Who are there, then, if the priests cannot enter? The answer is that the things of the temple,

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the material and the fittings, simply allude to persons. Persons are there, both in the temple and in the tabernacle. They are not kept out in that sense. In the tabernacle, only the idea of authority was kept out, as that was not then needed; in the temple, the idea of priesthood, as that was not then needed. In the divine, eternal habitation there is no need of what is official but a great need of persons. God must have persons and He has them in sonship. That is the great idea in the temple.

J.D. Otherwise it would be Deity filling somewhere with Itself and there would be no advance with that. The advance is that it is God "all in all", but in men. Would you be free to give a moral application to, "then the end", as a point reached in the assembly today?

J.T. You reach that point, that what is official has gone and you are absorbed with God. He says, 'This is what I have had in mind from eternal counsel'. It was not what Moses was personally that was excluded -- it was what he represented. The priest is the official side, but the persons are there. As you say, God is enough for Himself. He inhabits eternity, we are told, and the Deity of course is satisfied in Itself, speaking reverentially, but revelation implies that He has something else. The Deity has taken up the relationship of Father and Son in order to bring man in and when that is secured, that is all. God says, 'I want all this Myself' -- the glory filling both the tabernacle and the temple.

J.D. Would the mediatorial service of the Lord be seen in the morning meeting in that way in bringing everything into subjection, so that there might be a touch of that now in the assembly?

J.T. I think so. The Lord is recognised as we discern Him. He is apprehended on our side and from then on is to lead us on to the light of God through the Father. First the covenant-God, then the Father, and then God, as represented in Elohim -- God in the

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absolute, because we shall never lose that thought. Although He dwells in light unapproachable, we know He is there.

J.D. Is it the knowledge of the covenant-God in connection with the Son here where David merges in it, that enables us to sit?

J.T. It is the perfect love that casts out fear, first of all. There are three kinds of love that enter into the assembly as convened. The first is the love of Christ, that is, in the bread, "This is my body which is given for you", Luke 22:19. The second is the covenant-love of God, which is in the cup. "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you", Luke 22:20. That is the covenant-love of God and, as John says, "perfect love casts out fear", 1 John 4:18. So that we are set free. Then there is the love that the Father has for the Son which He alludes to. The Lord says in John 17:26: "That the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them". That is manifestly greater than the other two -- the love that the Father has for the Son. That is love by itself, and that love is to be in us. We are to love the Son as the Father loves -- with that kind of love. These are thoughts that should be before us in the assembly; and although we would not make compartments in the assembly we move, if we are subject and intelligent, in that relation. I believe that the Lord, as looking down upon us, takes account of all the saints from the time they leave their houses until they reach the meeting-room. The anointing is the first great thought and it has to do with my spirit in the house in getting ready for the meeting; looking after the children and getting them ready, and walking up the street. The anointing is to be upon the saints. Then the coming in and sitting down; there is beautiful moral order and the anointing marks off those who have the Spirit. There is a dignity about them and a distinctiveness that no others have. Then it says that the Lord "placed himself",

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Luke 22:14. That includes the anointing, the way He would sit. He "placed himself". That has to do with our coming into the room and sitting down. Then there are the announcements which have to do with the public testimony. The anointing has to do with what is public; it is connected with the tabernacle which is the public position. The temple is what is inside spiritually. If I give out notices, they are for the information of the brethren but they belong to what is public and they should be anointed; they should be in dignity. They are not common. Everything is under the heading of the anointing. That is how we sit down and heaven is complacent in all that. The apostle says in view of all that, "I speak as to intelligent persons", 1 Corinthians 10:15. What I am going to say to you now requires intelligence. That is the next thing. Well, I give out a hymn. What am I giving out? What is in my mind? What am I thinking about? Is there intelligence? "I will sing with the spirit", says the apostle, "but I will sing also with the understanding", 1 Corinthians 14:15. That is most important, that the hymn I give out, the giving of thanks, or whatever part I take, should all be in intelligence. And hence the thing proceeds and these great divine thoughts as to love fall into their real places.

J.B. When the Lord says in Psalm 22, "And thou art holy, thou that dwellest amid the praises of Israel", is that the end in view for the Lord with regard to the sufferings before Him?

J.T. I think so. We were speaking of that a little this morning. Before that you have Psalm 8:2 in which it is said, "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou established praise ..."; that necessarily enters into Psalm 22. He speaks of the deepest things -- the atoning sufferings -- but "thou art holy, thou that dwellest amid the praises of Israel".

J.B. He surrounds Himself in His dwelling place with His beloved people to praise Him.

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J.T. The eighth psalm prepares us for the twenty-second: "And thou art holy, thou that dwellest amid the praises of Israel". Someone has been praising -- the praises of Israel are assumed to be there, but then He goes on in verse 22 to say, "I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee". That is the new thing. You must have the assembly and what I have been saying about the anointing is a most important thing because we are so common in our thoughts, so mean and natural, whereas the Lord intends a great and holy vehicle in which to place them.

S.McC. The anointing would imply that things are not done merely in a formal way; feeling would enter into the matter.

J.T. The anointing means that you have the Holy Spirit and He affects you in your external demeanour and ways. It is the same Holy Spirit "whereby we cry, Abba, Father" (Romans 8:15), but the anointing is affecting you outwardly -- how you meet the public, how you walk down the street and meet men without being defiled.

J.B. Solomon was anointed with the oil of the tabernacle. We proceed from that into the temple; the anointing is not there -- it is the dignity of the persons inside.

J.D. In view of what is stated here: "then the Son also himself shall be placed in subjection to him", is all service in the assembly mediatorial, or is a point reached where that service ceases today?

J.T. It is a question of what you mean by 'mediatorial'. Generally I think it is too limited. The idea is that we always need Someone as with God, even eternally. We shall not see God in His essential Being. I believe many have the thought that they will see the Deity, the Trinity, but it is all wrong. We see Christ; He is the One we see.

G.A.T. There has been quite an exercise in this

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meeting in connection with that remark. We all hold that there are three Persons in the Godhead, but some of us are confused as to how they are divided. God came down and became Man.

J.T. We shall not see the Persons, I apprehend, save as in Christ. The Deity must stand. One of the Persons becoming man does not alter that great fact, so that as that Person is here, we have a voice out of heaven. That is the voice of the Deity but it is the voice of the Deity in Fatherhood, that is, in a relation that is intelligible to us. Fatherhood is intelligible to every person. Each one has had a father and God has taken that relationship. As the Son becomes Man and is baptised, the heavens are opened to Him and it is, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight", Matthew 3:17. That is a voice out of heaven. The apostle says in 1 Corinthians 15:27: "But when he says that all things are put in subjection, it is evident that it is except him who put all things in subjection to him". But the Deity is not subject to the Son. It is manifest, as the voice comes out of heaven, that that is the voice of the Deity, but it is the voice of the Father and, therefore, another Person besides the One that is here. So that you have the voice of the Father and then the Holy Spirit comes down in the form of a dove. That is another Person, and He rests upon this Person that is in manhood. There is the Trinity. It is manifest. It is not categorically stated -- it is really there -- it is manifestly there. That is how we come into the truth. We absorb these great facts -- they become part of us.

J.D. When you address the Lord in worship, you are not speaking to the Father. The Father is a distinct Person in revelation.

J.T. Surely; quite so.

G.A.T. I am not yet clear in regard to this matter. I hold that there are three distinct Persons in the Godhead. You just remarked that when the Son was here the Holy Spirit came down upon Him. Does that mean

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there were two of the Persons of the Godhead here at the same time? And was there just One in the Godhead in heaven?

J.T. You are touching the inscrutable. We are not capable of understanding all these things. We have to have our minds formed by what Scripture presents. The Deity is inscrutable. While the Son was on earth, it is "the Son of man who is in heaven", John 3:13. You cannot explain that. It is a statement of Scripture. Also we cannot say that while the Spirit is on earth He is not in heaven. All we can do is to use the language of Scripture and let our minds absorb it. Our thoughts are more or less common, but the great thing is to pay attention to Scripture and be formed in our minds by the way it speaks.

E.G.McA. You made a remark when you were here a short time ago that when you were speaking of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you were speaking of the three Persons in deity; but when you were speaking of God, you were speaking of all three Persons as seen in the absolute.

J.T. That is right. The Father may be presented to us as "one God, the Father"; whenever you use the term "God", you cannot exclude any of the Persons. The abstract thought has to be left.

S.McC. If we can only understand and intelligently enter into what God is relatively, what part does God in the absolute have in connection with our worship, as reaching what you referred to in the assembly?

J.T. As you proceed, you proceed to increasing greatness. God is the end. You cannot get beyond that. David indicated that was what he had in mind -- increasing greatness. The Lord puts the Father first: "... my Father and your Father, ... my God and your God", John 20:17. That is a progressive thought. The thought of Father is more intelligible to us; He has entered into that relationship in order to be intelligible to us -- in order to draw out our affections intelligently,

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but God is the great end. "My God and your God".

Rem. "The Father seeks ... worshippers", John 4:23.

J.T. Yes. He says, "God is a spirit". He does not say the Father is a Spirit although He is, but "God is a spirit". Remarkable that He should say that.

J.D. With reference to the mediatorial service of Christ, does His service as Mediator govern the saints viewed as in tabernacle conditions or in temple conditions?

J.T. I think in both. Paul is a figure of Christ in relation to the temple although he is outside, but it is the Son who abides in the house for ever, and in eternity we need Him. We shall be dependent upon Him. He is One that is between you and God. God dwells in light unapproachable. How am I to touch Him? I touch Him because the One that has come from my side as Man can touch Him. That is what I understand, that we are dependent on Him not only now but eternally. We need Him. He takes the place of subjection, according to this passage: "then the Son also himself shall be placed in subjection to him". He is within my range when He is in subjection because that is not deity.

J.D. Does the service of Christ in the tabernacle condition have to do more with the covenant and possibly with the saints' apprehension of Christ as sacrifice as we have in the first four chapters of Leviticus? Leviticus follows the end of Exodus where God takes possession of the tabernacle, and then is the temple character of the saints more in connection with the counsels of God?

J.T. The tabernacle belongs to the wilderness properly, and the service that Christ renders there has to do with the Supper which implies the covenant. I have to be brought into that. It says in 1 Corinthians that the cup is the covenant. That is what it is to me

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objectively, but in the second letter it is what is effected in me, in the christian -- that the love is there. The love is brought into my heart. The Lord does that.

J.D. Is that2 Corinthians 3?

J.T. Yes. The Lord does that. The apostle says in verse 6 of that chapter, "For the letter kills, but the Spirit quickens". Then he has a lengthy parenthesis in which he speaks about the glory of the covenant and the ministry of the Spirit; then he reaches the end of the parenthesis and says, "Now the Lord is the Spirit". That is where you get the thought of the Mediator in the sense in which He effects the covenant in the saints. He makes it a practical thing that God's love is effected in our hearts. The authority of Christ is in the service, but the Spirit is in the service too.

E.G.McA. Does the covenant set me free to move out of the wilderness?

J.T. That is right. It is perfect love.

J.B. In the new Jerusalem no temple is seen, "for the Lord God Almighty is its temple, and the Lamb", Revelation 21:22. Is that not the condition of things?

J.T. Just so. "The Lord God Almighty is its temple, and the Lamb". These are not, properly speaking, terms that enter into eternity; they are connected with time.

J.W.D. Paul says, "But my God shall abundantly supply all your need", Philippians 4:19. What do you understand by that expression?

J.T. It would simply mean the God he knew. He knew God in the sense in which he was speaking -- God who furnishes the service so perfectly and liberally. I think it is on those lines. "My God" is a beautiful expression. I think it is Paul conveying what God had been to him. He would speak experimentally.

J.W.D. Would it be the Father in that sense?

J.T. It would be; it is the way He provides for you. It is always well to be able to speak experimentally.

J.W.D. When you use the expression in prayer,

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"our God", it is God in His absoluteness. But we often refer to the Father as God relatively, and rightly so, do we not?

J.T. Yes, but "our God", what do you mean by that?

J.W.D. We use that expression meaning the Father. Our brother spoke to "our God" this morning. It does not always convey the idea of absoluteness, does it?

J.T. Well, "our God" -- of course it is God. "For also our God is a consuming fire", Hebrews 12:29. That is a relative thought. The God we know in all His love to us is nevertheless a consuming fire and when we say, "our God", I am not so sure that the Father as such is meant because there it is judgment. "For also our God is a consuming fire". I am not sure that I get your thought fully. Perhaps you will enlarge on it.

J.W.D. Do you think we can speak to God in His absoluteness in that sense?

J.T. I think so, if it be Christ's God; that is, "my Father and your Father, ... my God and your God", John 19:17. When it is Christ's God it is not the covenant God. It is distinct from the Father, too. There you touch absoluteness, what He is in infinitude. He is Christ's God. If I am alongside of Christ I can get some thought as to His God. He has access to the depths of the Deity. So that it says He "has passed through the heavens", Hebrews 4:14. He has gone into an uncreated sphere but we cannot get out of creation in our minds, nor shall we ever get out of creation. But the Son goes beyond creation, beyond all the heavens. What is beyond all the heavens is uncreated. The Son has access there and that is, I apprehend, how things are -- that God is God. "My God", he says. That is deity in the absolute.

G.A.T. Is that a higher thought than the third heaven?

J.T. Oh, yes. No creature can get outside of creation, but the Son of God is a divine Person and He

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passes through the heavens in going there. That enables us to understand how He is the medium through which we know God.

S.McC. I do not quite understand your remark, 'If we get alongside of Christ, we may get some thought as to His God', if what He is in absoluteness is inscrutable.

J.T. You cannot compass Him. You enjoy the air, but you do not compass it. You enjoy God and understand that He is absolute, that there is only one Person that can know Him, and when you get alongside of Him He gives you an understanding. Infinitude is always infinitude. The creature is always the creature.

J.C. How do you explain, "the Father seeks ... worshippers", and worship to God?

J.T. The Lord explains to the woman in John 4 that "God is a spirit". He was that always. The Lord lets us into that and it is to show that He must be worshipped "in spirit and truth". "In spirit" means that I have my spirit from God. I did not get it from my parents, but from God. It is the link I have with God; by that I am in touch with God as He is. He is a spirit. The lower creature has not that; God gave it to man.

G.A.T. Romans 8:9 says, "but if any one has not the Spirit of Christ he is not of him".

J.T. That would be more the characteristic spirit, the kind He had, but then you have your own spirit. "The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are children of God", Romans 8:16. You have a distinct spirit of your own.

W.B. That is helpful. It says in Genesis 1:26: "Let us make man". There is the counsel of divine Persons and then, as you say, the link with God in our spirits. "Let us make man". The inscrutable Godhead is in view there.

J.T. Then He "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life", Genesis 2:7. He has a spirit now, and he gets it from God. You have it in Proverbs 20:27, "Man's

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spirit is the lamp of Jehovah, searching all the inner parts of the belly". It is the avenue through which He can get in and through which you can get to God. The spirit is the highest part of man. That is the basis really in us; that God is a spirit and it is in virtue of us having spirits that we can worship Him.

J.D. Basically in your soul you have the knowledge that this is inscrutable, but you are governed by the fact that He has come into revelation. He cannot be compassed but you know Him in revelation.

J.W.D. "There is no other God save one". Then it goes on to say, "yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him", etc. (1 Corinthians 8:4,6).

J.T. That is revelation manifestly -- God in revelation -- and does not touch the inscrutability of which we have been speaking. It is God in revelation. We are baptised to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. The Father retains His place in the Deity. He never gives it up. We address Him in that way but we do not exclude the other Persons. Another passage of Paul's, "awaiting the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13), shows that Jesus Christ is in the Deity. We are awaiting Him. That also helps us to see that we have to take things as Scripture presents them. If God presents Himself in graded relations, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, that does not set aside the infiniteness and inscrutability and absoluteness of the Deity as composed of three Persons. All that is beyond and outside the realm of revelation. The apostle manifestly is dealing with paganism and he is bringing in the revelation of God to meet it. We have one God, the Father to address as in the Deity, and one Lord, that is, Christ in manhood exercises authority, and then "by whom are all things". John says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with

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God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things received being through him, and without him not one thing received being which has received being", John 1:1 - 3. There it is. The Lord Jesus in manhood is the same Person; "by whom are all things, and we by him"; the word 'by' meaning that we, every one of us, have come into being through Jesus and yet it is Jesus in manhood that he is speaking about.

J.B. Would Luke 10:22 help us as regards the revelation of God as Father: "no one knows who the Son is but the Father, and who the Father is but the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son is pleased to reveal him", and also Matthew 11:27, "no one knows the Son but the Father, nor does any one know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom the Son may be pleased to reveal him".

J.T. Quite so. That passage in 1 Corinthians 8 should be kept clearly in mind that, whilst the Son is there in a mediatorial position as Lord, everything is by Him. God is the Creator of everything. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", Genesis 1:1. He did that. That helps what we are saying. While He is spoken of here in manhood in an inferior position, things that are said indicate that He is God.

E.G.McA. Is it correct to say that the mediatorial service of Christ helps our spirits to touch God in worship? His service does not end in bringing us to the Father, but as He is what He is, the Mediator, does He not help our spirits to worship God?

J.T. He does.

E.G.McA. Regardless of how inscrutable the term "God" is, it is through the mediatorial service of Christ, the Son, who brings us there, so that it seems to me that, while the expression "Father" is a marvellous one, God Himself as God has recovered for Himself, or for the Deity, all that He had lost. So that God, the

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inscrutable, incomprehensible, is worshipped by His creature.

J.T. He has been pleased to come into a relationship intelligible to us to secure what He has in His mind.

E.G.McA. The terms, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are relative terms. In the morning meeting it is possible to reach that which is not only relative, which has distance and limitation in mind, but by Christ the Son, we are brought into the illimitable.

J.T. That is right. "Then the end ..." That is the way it moves. The mediatorial service of Christ in the tabernacle is in relation to the Lord's supper, the covenant, but then we change our ground. All that is in the wilderness. We change our ground in the apprehension of Christ's Sonship. They went to the Mount of Olives, a manifest change of position, after the Lord's supper. That is a spiritual thing; it is not a public, anointed thought. It is a spiritual, inward thought. They went to the Mount of Olives and as there, what would come into the mind of any intelligent disciple at that time? The Lord used to be there every night, Luke tells us. He taught in the temple during the day but at night He went to the Mount of Olives. What was His occupation there? That is what a spiritual inquiry would be. What would His occupation be? "And every one went to his home" (John 7:53), "But Jesus went to the mount of Olives". It is an out-of-the-world state of things. Olivet is outside of Jerusalem, of what is religious, and the Lord was in communication with heaven. That was His holy employ. We are here and what is our employ? We are alongside Him and He alongside us and the thought is that we should be occupied with God; first as the Father in the term in which He is intelligible to us, and then led on to Christ's God -- "my God". Well, suppose we are able to take in the feelings that went on in His heart when he said that! He is speaking of God in His absoluteness. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth";

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the word is plural which means the full thought of God.

E.G.McA. How does David use the statement in regard of God in 1 Chronicles 29:12: "and thou rulest over everything"? Is that God?

J.T. We have to make due allowance for the dispensation under which he spoke. By adding this on to what we have in 2 Samuel 7, we see how completely free of himself he was and what a sense he had of the greatness of God! It is the first time you get the thought of Head attributed to God. David represents the thought himself but he says it is from God. Everything is from Him and reverts to Him. So that it says, "And David blessed Jehovah in the sight of all the congregation; and David said, Blessed be thou, Jehovah, the God of our father Israel, for ever and ever. Thine, Jehovah, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the splendour, and the majesty; for all that is in the heavens and on the earth is thine: thine, Jehovah, is the kingdom, and thou art exalted as Head above all". First the creation and then the mediatorial kingdom and headship attaching to it and then "riches and glory are of thee, and thou rulest over everything; and in thy hand is power and might; and in thy hand it is to make all great and strong. And now, our God, we thank thee, and praise thy glorious name". And then in verse 17, "And I know, my God, that thou triest the heart, and hast pleasure in uprightness". Then verse 18, "Jehovah, God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Israel, our fathers, keep this for ever in the imagination of the thoughts of the heart of thy people, and direct their hearts to thee!" And verse 20: "And David said to all the congregation, Bless now Jehovah your God. And all the congregation blessed Jehovah the God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and did homage to Jehovah and the king". I think it is wonderful when you consider that old man! In 1 Kings 1 he was a decrepit old man but here he stands up, according to this passage, and says all these wonderful things. What

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is it but the supernatural, a man taken out of death and set up to speak in this wonderful way to God! He has reached the end. Solomon takes his place but he has reached the end in his soul, and every one of us should have that before us.

A.B. Is that why he says in 2 Samuel 7:19, "And is this the manner of man, Lord Jehovah?"

J.T. Quite so.

J.D. Referring to your point in regard to the Mount of Olives, do you make that the summit, or John 20? Is the mount of Olives John 20 spiritually or is it on the way to it?

J.T. It is on the way to John 20. John 20 is ascension. I would take the Mount of Olives as the turning point, the new position; making way for the ascension, for the heavenly position. The point is, to be spiritual at that stage of the meeting; to have our spirits under control so that the Holy Spirit gets His place amongst us.

G.W.H. Is the Mount of Olives and the Colossian position the same?

J.T. Pretty much.

E.G.McA. Any covenant that God makes with men has need in view.

J.T. Yes, I think so.

E.G.McA. The covenant is that we need to have the love of God shed abroad in our hearts, which is done. John 20 carries us beyond a sense of need into a spiritual realm where no need is felt.

J.T. "I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God", John 20:17. That is in mind. You must notice the word, it is not only the relationship but the Person -- "I ascend".

J.D. When the queen of Sheba visited Solomon, she noticed "his ascent by which he went up to the house of Jehovah", 1 Kings 10:5.

G.A.T. In connection with the atmosphere referred to in Solomon's temple, would what you have been bringing before us produce that atmosphere amongst us?

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J.T. Spirituality is the great thing. I may be just a member of the congregation, but as to the change of position and the intelligence that enters into it, that is different.

J.W.W. Does the apostle's prayer in Ephesians 3:14 - 19 help in regard of what is knowable and what is unknowable? "... that ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God" (verse 19)?

J.T. That is always the point. There is what is knowable and also what is unknowable; "and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge". The love of Christ -- the first love you get -- you cannot compass it, but strengthened inwardly by the Spirit enables you to grasp "the breadth and length and depth and height", that you are in a wonderful place -- a large place.

G.W.H. Why is the Spirit mentioned so much in Ephesians?

J.T. That is in relation to a new domain.

G.W.H. In Colossians the Spirit is mentioned only once, but in Ephesians He is mentioned eleven times.

J.T. Yes. The point in Colossians is formation.

E.G.McA. Would the remark made in regard to Ephesians 3 be in line with what is said in 1 Corinthians 15:28, "that God may be all in all"?

J.T. I think so. Being "filled even to all the fulness of God" links on with that.

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THE NAME

Leviticus 24:10 - 16; Matthew 18:20; Genesis 35:9 - 13

I intend to speak this evening, brethren, about the Name. This scripture speaks of blaspheming the Name, a serious offence. We should understand what the Name signifies; understand that in the mind of the spiritual there is only one Name that could be so alluded to. The men in the camp in Israel had acquired names of renown; Moses and Aaron and others. Moses had acquired a great name, but the Name as set forth could allude to none of their renowned affairs. It could allude to only one Person -- and that is Jehovah.

In the New Testament we have reference to Jesus as the One in whom all the fulness is revealed. The spiritual understand that; that it alludes to the Deity. It could allude to no other. We find that in Hebrews that Jesus is said to have made purification of sins; and afterwards to have set Himself down at the right hand of the greatness in the heavens. We do not need to question that greatness -- it could only be the greatness of One. Then, again, He sat down at the right hand of the throne. Here again the spiritual is to be understood. It is to bring out who Jesus was; that He Himself is divine. No one of his own volition could set himself up and be a divine Person. So that we understand what these circumstances mean. They allude to God. What greatness and fulness in the Name! -- as in this instance in the Old Testament; we are to be imbued in our whole being with the idea of the Name -- and that it all centres in God. Whatever is of value must emanate from Him. This brings out the gravity of the crime committed here -- blaspheming the Name.

The mother of the man who committed the crime was an Israelite and his father was a heathen. The man therefore was a mongrel, not of the true seed. He was

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not of the right strain. He was a mixture, of which there are millions today -- persons who are not of the right seed. A person who has the right father and the right mother is different -- like Isaac. Isaac was and represents a wholly right seed. That is to say, one who has God as his Father, knowingly, and who apprehends the assembly. That is, all true christians. This blasphemer was not that. He was a mongrel. A warning indeed as to mixtures -- unholy mixtures. The result is usually baneful. Here is the most serious offence -- to blaspheme the Name. The Name, beloved friends. Does it appeal to your heart? The Name!

How we cherish a little natural greatness for our names, our ancestry, so as to have some little honour. There are people who make money in looking up ancestries, and they never fail to find them. They find ones of distinction; or if there are none, they will attach some distinction to the family tree. Then, again, our natural ability is sure, if rightly used, to bring a person into distinction in this world. However obscure a man's origin, if he uses his ability well, he is sure to obtain distinction. And there is money -- money buys its way even to the purchase of titles. But all this is to the one end (and I am not speaking of any one else but myself; I know what the natural man is: if one knows himself, one knows everybody, in a sense). The more we value our name, the more likely we are to blaspheme the only right and real Name -- the only abiding One. Those in this world knew who Jesus was. They knew well enough how transcending He was. They knew in their hearts what He was. They discerned that He was the true One. They would overpower Him with honour to make him part of their system. The world has no difficulty on that line. It would absorb Christ and make Him part of the system. How much would He adorn it!

But He does not intend to adorn this world. The blind man in John 9 was to wash away what Jesus had put on his eyes: "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam",

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said the Lord. It meant that the Lord did not intend to add to this world -- He did not intend to adorn this world.

If you want the world, you must make up your mind that, you must have it without Christ. The man said to the Pharisees that he was blind but that now he was seeing. What did he see? He really saw, beloved friends, that Jesus had come to wipe away the sin of the world.

And so this 'mongrel' had a name, no doubt. His mother's name was known; she had a certain distinction. But he blasphemed the Deity. How much of that is going on! The Lord says to Philadelphia, "thou ... hast not denied my name", Revelation 3:8. The whole system, beloved friends, is again alluded to. The Lord's Name is being set aside. The Lord does not like it. When we speak of Christ, when we present Christ to others, it involves the Name. What are you baptised to? Unto Christ -- to the Name. Why should we be baptised to any other? I am baptised to that glorious Name. Why should I take on any other? To take on any other is to discredit that Name, to make little of it. The Lord does not like that; He makes a great promise to Philadelphia, for that assembly has not denied His Name. That promise holds good this very night.

The mystery of iniquity does its work, aided by Satan, but it is always held back. It is held back tonight. Why should I relinquish that Name? In it is all the Deity. Denying It is blasphemy; the Name! God is jealous about this. We have to deal with the Lord in these things. We must be on our guard against blaspheming the Name. I am not speaking of how it is used in the gutters and streets. I am speaking now of christians blaspheming the Name. God's eye is upon it all. God is putting in His claim for one and then another. He has put His claim upon us; that His Name should be honoured. His Name is to be praised.

Matthew's gospel describes what governs those who are not drawn into disregard of the divine Name. This

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verse is like a charter for christians. "Gathered ... unto my name". Those who love Him meet together -- two or three, or twenty or thirty, or two hundred or three hundred; but however many, all are gathered unto that glorious Name! Think of the magnitude of it. Is it not attractive to you? Most of us here understand that the Lord has put in His claim, and I would ask, Would you not like to be one of those who do not deny the Lord's Name? No power can overthrow those who are gathered unto His Name. May God help us to understand the greatness of this.

No matter how good our meetings may seem to be, the Lord says that He must have the last word. It is a most serious matter. As in Revelation, He is walking in the midst of the lamps, and passing judgment upon the assemblies. He says to those who do not deny His Name, "I also will keep thee out of the hour of trial", Revelation 3:10. Oh, that we might move in the right direction!

Our Lord's Name was one of renown. He sprang from Judah. What a Name!

Jacob is the first with whom the idea of the house of God is connected in Scripture. John gives us the persons, and brings in tabernacle conditions for those who love the Lord Jesus Christ. Every one of us is to have a name. Every christian is to have a name and is to be known in heaven by his own name, the name that Jesus gives him. Would you not like to know it -- the name that Jesus gives you? Rejoice that your names are written in heaven, not in London or in Paris, but in heaven! Think of having a heavenly name -- an everlasting name -- written in heaven! There are grades of distinction; every one of us having our names registered in heaven. The builders for the heavenly tabernacle must be a heavenly people. The finest piece of architecture in this world is nothing to God. The tabernacle down here was to he a copy, in a sense, of what is up there. It is a heavenly institution. We are told that we are a tabernacle down here for God. We

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are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit. How great a fact that is! It is a wonderful system of things. We have our names. If I apprehend my heavenly calling, that name shall be my heavenly name.

Things may detain us even after we have the light. Money may detain us. But we cannot bring our money, or our cattle, or our distinction in this world into the house of God. We may as well let them go now; they certainly will go when we die. As it is said, we brought nothing into the world, and we certainly shall carry nothing out.

Is it not attractive to have a name in the house of God, a name that endures, that is written, as I might say, in letters of gold up there. Is it not attractive for each of us to have a name in that house? May God help us to see this. What I am naturally is to be dropped; I get another name. Jacob was to be called Israel. "Israel shall be thy name".

God discloses Himself to us in the most delightful surroundings. You see what a circle we are brought into, and how we acquire a name by which we are known. Though I may call you Mr. So-and-So or Mrs. So-and-So, I am thinking of you -- what you are, not merely your name. It is what we are. If you get distinction in the house of God, it will stay with you. Would you relinquish that glorious name in heaven for some tarnished bit of renown here? May the Lord help us to see these great things and to come into them -- share them together. May we sit down together up there, and be no longer the children of God scattered abroad, hut gathered together with Him, up there.