Pages 1 - 66 "Bondmen of God". Notes of Meetings in Belfast and elsewhere, 1938 (Volume 142)

BONDMEN OF GOD (1)

Mark 13:32 - 37; Revelation 1:1 - 6

J.T. What is in mind for today and tomorrow, if the Lord permit, is the subject of bondmen, to be worked out, as the Lord may help, from the position He took Himself, which indeed is exemplified in what we had yesterday afternoon, John 13. We may see that the features of the truth in the book of Revelation stand connected with the thought of bondmen. The thought runs through the book and has a great application now, as indeed always, but particularly now, in view of the end. It is necessary to accept the moral import of bondmanship if we are to understand the mind of God as applicable to the end. Even the angel who is used to convey the Apocalypse to John is himself a bondman, as he says at the end, according to chapter 22: 9.

The verses read in Mark 13 enter peculiarly into the subject before us, for the mediatorial economy is in mind in the Lord's remarks, by which He shows that even matters at the end, in relation to His coming, are in the exclusive knowledge of the Father, the Son eliminating Himself from that knowledge. Our Lord's remarks are only intelligible as we understand the mediatorial economy into which the Lord has come, even to the extent of taking a bondman's form. It is His having taken a bondman's form which explains His word that even the Son does not know. He likens Himself, as will be observed, to a man going out of his own country; "having left his house and given to his bondmen the authority, and to each one his work, and commanded the doorkeeper that he should watch". Then, the closing

solemn remarks are, "Watch therefore, for ye do not know when the master of the house comes: evening, or midnight, or cockcrow, or morning; lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. But what I say to you, I say to all. Watch". The mediatorial economy is really in mind, and our position in it; for we also are placed in a mediatorial position and service as bondmen receiving the authority. Those who are in the attitude of bondmen receive the authority; the Lord gave them the authority, but the great stress is laid on watching.

H.B. Will you make it clear what you have in mind regarding the mediatorial economy?

J.T. That into which the Deity has come, as over against that which relates to absolute Deity, which is exclusive and beyond us, which no man has seen, nor can see. The Son here, one of the divine Persons, became incarnate -- to carry out the divine will and purpose, to make known what God is in a moral sense, so that we have the Father and the Son and the Spirit -- we cannot reverse that order. The Son and the Spirit have taken relatively lower positions, but yet each acting as God; and the mediatorial thought is carried down to the bondmen who have the authority. So that it is an order of things that is brought near to us, in which we are indeed; for as soon as one is secured through the gospel, one is taken into the administrative side of the position, and, in that sense, is in a mediatorial position. You have, for instance, in Matthew 10:41 the mediatorial idea coming down to a disciple -- "He that receives a prophet in the name of a prophet, shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man, shall receive a righteous man's reward. And whosoever shall give to drink to one of these little ones a cup of cold water only, in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward".

Ques. Is the thought of bondmen worked out in us largely in our attitude of mind? I am thinking of Philippians 2, "Let this mind be in you ..."

J.T. That is so. I thought we might see how the Lord has led in that way, as indeed in everything, and we learn from Him, so that, as you say, it is a question of attitude of mind. The types, of course, come in and enlarge on this matter -- the well-known one in Exodus 21, for instance, the Hebrew bondman. The position in Exodus is the result of God coming in, but through a mediator. The principle of approach is that God is to be served in sonship -- "Let my son go, that he may serve me" (chapter 4: 23); and then, in chapter 21, we have the Son, in type in the Hebrew bondman, taking a bondman's form. The Lord is thus alluded to in the type, as becoming incarnate, and in love deliberately deciding to remain in that relation; He loves His Master and His wife and His children, so that it is a matter of His own volition, and it is a matter of love, and of love serving; going to the very lowest position to serve. The whole divine system is pervaded by love, by love that will serve one another and serve God. Then the teaching proceeds in Exodus 28 and 29, and shows that the service is in priesthood; these chapters stipulate what is required by God in His service and stress the priest -- "that he may serve me as priest", and not only Aaron, but also his sons, "that they may serve me as priests". We see thus, that while sonship is the basis of the service, and bondmanship the full testimony of love (for it implies that the bondman went into death to establish the matter, it is a system in which bondmanship prevails, love actuating it, so that love will go to any length to serve), yet God's stipulation requires that there must be also intelligence and holiness, and hence the priesthood in chapters 28 and 29. I think all that enters into the book of Revelation.

J.T-y. Would you say the bearing of that comes out in Deuteronomy 15, where Moses speaks of the bondman and the bondmaid professing to love. They do not go out, their ear is pierced, so that they bear lasting evidence of true bondmanship?

J.T. That helps as bringing the bondmaid into the position, that is the feminine side. The chapter contemplates a brother or sister being released through the liberality which marks sonship. Bondmanship implies subjection, and then love carrying you beyond what is obligatory; you go beyond what might be demanded, you go the whole road. That was Christ's attitude; He said, "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life" -- it was His own thought to go that way, it was the power of love in Him.

Ques. Would verse 16 of Deuteronomy 15 show that? The bondman says, "I will not go away from thee -- because he loveth thee and thy house, because he is well with thee". It is the attraction of love that makes him the bondman.

J.T. Exactly; what love is as active here in Christ, or in the saints -- the length to which it will go. John's epistle develops it as worked out in the saints. The mediatorial system, as inclusive of all who are thus actuated by love, I think is to be understood. It is important that it should be understood that as we are secured through love's appeal in the gospel, and the appeal that comes to us on account of the great sacrifice of love in Christ, so that one says, He "loved me, and gave himself for me", we recognise that we are taken into the divine mediatorial and administrative system. So the woman in John 4 immediately becomes a vessel -- not that the Lord sent her, but she becomes a vessel in her own mind and carries the thought on. "If thou knewest the gift of God", the Lord says, "and who it is that says to thee, Give me to drink, thou wouldst have asked of him, and

he would have given thee living water", that is, He was administrating. The verses at the end of chapter 3 state that "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand" -- love underlies it all. The woman in John 4 takes on the work, in so far as she can, and carries the truth to others; the administration is ever widening, so that the Samaritans learn the Lord as the Saviour of the world, through that administrative act of hers.

Ques. Referring to Peter as in John 13, would he come into the mediatorial system you are speaking of as a result of the action of the Lord?

J.T. He would have "part" with Christ. The Lord makes much in that section of whomsoever He sends -- anyone receiving whomsoever He sends receives Him. It is the apostolic line, for the idea is a sent one. Peter as restored, fully set up in love, comes into the administrative side finally in chapter 21. The test was, "Lovest thou me?" -- the Lord accepted finally that he did love Him, it came to light, it was manifest in him. The word used in the last reference meaning objective knowledge, meant, that the Lord could now see that love for Him was there, it was manifest. That is the thought; if love be there, the administrative representative side is there; the Lord committed the care of His lambs and sheep to Peter.

H.C. Is the apostolic side seen in the beginning of Mark 12?

J.T. Bond-service is there, conveying representation. Verse 2 says, a bondman was sent by the owner of the vineyard to the husbandmen; and again he sent another (verse 4); and again another (verse 5). What underlies bondmanship is love. One of the best examples of it is in Luke 15, where the bondmen are employed to clothe the prodigal in his heavenly attire. There is no rivalry, they are doing it happily.

E.G. Is the thought seen in the letter to Philemon? Paul says of Onesimus, "whom I was desirous of keeping with myself, that for thee he might minister to me in the bonds of the glad tidings".

J.T. Well, exactly. He became attached to Paul through the gospel, he was his child through the gospel, and he had desired to retain him for service, but crediting Philemon with his service.

Ques. The apostle, in the epistle to the Romans, speaks of himself as a bondman and then he speaks of the fact that he served God in his spirit; would that mean that his service as a bondman was carried out not in a legal fashion, but under the influence of divine love?

J.T. Yes. His very being was in it, he served God in his spirit.

E.G. Does that show that without love I am of no use in the economy? The word bondman might be used. In Revelation 2 the Lord speaks of His bondmen; but they are corrupted by Jezebel's evil teaching.

J.T. Well, they would still be bondmen; an unconverted man might be used. I think the Lord alludes to Judas in John 13 -- "He who receives whomsoever I shall send receives me"; that is, Judas's words were undoubtedly used and he was representative of Christ, too, in his apostleship, but he was a lost man, and I have no doubt that what the Lord meant in alluding to him, as He does in verse 20, would cover the truth as it has come down to us.

It may have come through unconverted men, but it is not invalidated by that; it stands, the representation of Christ holds throughout the dispensation, although much may have come to us through men whom we could hardly say were characteristically bondmen. We may say that what has come down to us came down by the Spirit, which is true, but it has come down also through men, of whom some

could hardly be called bondmen characteristically; but yet the testimony has come to us.

Ques. Are you referring now to the preservation of the Holy Scriptures, and such like?

J.T. Yes, all that is under Christ; and in the service He used what was available, that is, the best there was. You see throughout Scripture that God carries on, but sometimes with very poor instruments. He used an ass, for instance, and other such instrumentalities; so that we cannot be exclusive in what we say of what the Lord may use. Our concern now is what is characteristic of the economy, that love is the great thought underlying it all, and it is a proved love. So that, as we have often remarked, Peter in his replies, appeals first to the Lord's conscious knowledge, that is, what He had divinely, He knew everything. "Thou knowest all things", he says; but what is in the Lord's mind or thoughts may not be unfolded to us. In verse 17 Peter uses the word for objective knowledge, saying, "thou knowest that I am attached to thee" -- then it is an attested love. John's gospel makes much of the attestation of things, even as to the water and the blood that flowed from the side of Jesus, the one who writes, witnessed the blood, and his witness is true. Then, in his epistle, he speaks of the threefold witness, the Spirit and the water and the blood. So that what is in the economy into which we are brought is not a concealed matter, it is an attested matter, and you want to be of it characteristically, so that you can say, like Peter, "Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I am attached to thee".

A.W.R. Would that be seen in Philippians 1, where the apostle speaks of some who preached Christ out of envy, but others of love, and the apostle rejoiced that the gospel was preached?

J.T. You cannot think that the ones who were preaching out of envy belonged to the economy

characteristically, but still the apostle rejoiced that the gospel was preached. What a difference in those who preached out of love to support what the apostle was standing for! He was stressing that his position in prison was representative; it was manifest in all the praetorium and to all others that his bonds were in Christ, that is, he is representative in the position. We do not want to be in any position that is not representative of God and of Christ. If one is under discipline he is not representative of the economy, he is in prison under penalty; he has sinned and is falsifying the economy.

Rem. The Lord said of Himself, "Altogether that which I also say to you".

J.T. Yes, He was representative personally. It is a very important matter now we are in the last days, whether there is any representation of the dispensation, of the administrative system which is in the hands of Christ.

H.C. Paul says, in Acts 20, that he had declared to them the whole counsel of God, but then he says, "these hands have ministered ..."; and then he says, "I have shewed you all things, that thus labouring we ought to come in aid of the weak".

Ques. In connection with what you are saying, is it not significant that the case of the Hebrew bondman follows immediately on the giving of the law?

J.T. Yes, showing that love would fulfil the law. Jehovah unfolding His rights in Exodus 20 speaks of the "thousands of them that love me" -- not that should love, but that do -- He knew them. We are not told who they were, but we have the great example in the Hebrew bondman. He says, "I love" -- "I love my master". He is the first one in Scripture who says, I love. That is the basis of all that follows. One said to the Lord, "Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,

and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets". Matthew 22:36 - 40. That is the position in Exodus, that love, as Paul said in Romans, is the fulfilling of the law.

C.S. Are the qualities seen in Abigail, who was prepared to serve as a bondwoman?

J.T. Well, she is a type of the assembly, of course -- the feminine side. It is well to keep that in mind, for Scripture develops masculine love and feminine love -- in a spiritual way, I mean; love takes these two forms. The feminine, of course, is in the assembly; the masculine flows out from God to Christ, that is the supreme thought.

J.S. The little maid who served Naaman was an example.

J.T. Quite so. She was really a slave, a captive maid, but she was full of right feeling. "Oh, would that my lord were before the prophet that is in Samaria! then he would cure him of his leprosy", 2 Kings 5:3. That is the thought, she is administrating the truth really, showing how the thing is brought down to the least; so Paul says, the least in the assembly may carry on judicial service amongst the brethren.

H.P.W. Are the features that are accredited to Philadelphia suggestive of the bondman, especially keeping the word of His patience, as being akin to watching?

J.T. Yes. The idea of bondmanship must enter to the state indicated in Philadelphia: "thou hast a little power, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name".

E.G. The thought of watching in this is mentioned three times in Mark 13, the first coupled with prayer.

J.T. I think we should keep that in mind, it is stressed -- "But what I say to you, I say to all. Watch". The allusion is to the strenuous conditions that would result from the Lord's leaving the disciples and shows the urgency of vigilance as attaching to bondmen. He gave to the bondman the authority, to each one his work, and commanded the doorkeeper that he should watch; that is, do not let in extraneous or adverse elements; see to that, and then, "Watch therefore, for ye do not know when the master of the house comes". And then again, "What I say to you, I say to all, Watch". The demand is upon us to be vigilant, whether as regards those who come in, or as to current conditions in christendom, or in the world generally, or whether as to the Lord's coming; vigilance is urgent.

Now this leads us to the book of Revelation, and perhaps no passage confirms the idea of what we are saying as to the economy more than these verses in chapter 1; indeed I believe they allude to the verses read in Mark, in which the Lord says, that the Son does not know "of that day or of that hour". We have here, "Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him", that is, He is so representative of the economy that the revelation is given to Him; carrying out His thought in Mark 13:32. He takes that attitude.

H.P.W. Is it important for us to keep the two sides going on together? On the one hand, there is the work -- "to every man his work" -- and then the watching. Would that be watching the movements of the Lord, so that the work is to go on hand in hand -- the outcome of the communion of our hearts with the Lord Himself as to what He is doing?

J.T. Yes. There are three main thoughts: the authority is given to the bondmen, the authority, that is, the whole position is worked out down here in those who have the authority; and then the

"work", each one having his work; he is not sitting on an episcopal throne exercising his authority, he has his own work to do and he is doing it; then the watching. The "house" is the sphere in mind; the door-keeper would be vigilant in regard to any that might come in, or as to the order of the house, and so forth; then the general thought of watching as to the Lord's coming, and then finally, "What I say to you, I say to all, Watch". Every one is to watch.

H.P.W. Our work is to be co-ordinated; have we to guard against independency? -- it is His work and He gives it, so that whatever is given is carried out under the Lord.

J.T. That is right, and in the sense of "the authority". If Paul and Barnabas are to be selected for the work, the saints are taken into account -- the assembly at Antioch. "Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them". Acts 13:2. The Spirit is making the appointment, but He is taking the assembly into what He is doing; the authority is in that setting, but on the principle their being bondmen.

Ques. Ought there to be an understanding between us and the Lord as to what the work is?

J.T. I think so; the servant gets his commission from the Lord. The public assembly has taken on the authority, and exercises it, not only as regards fellowship generally and the support of ministers, but even as to the appointment of the ministers. This is not scriptural. The episcopal idea is that the gift comes down through the hands of the elderhood; but as set out in Scripture, gift is direct from the Lord -- "with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery"; they had fellowship in it, but the commission and the gift are directly from the Lord. 2 Timothy 1:6 is, of course, apostolic. The assembly has no authority all in regard of a servant's commission or even in

regard of service; they may show sympathy and interest, but to his own Master he stands or falls.

W.H. Would that be seen when Saul said, "What shall I do, Lord?" -- and then he is told to go to Damascus, as if he learnt in the company of the brethren what his peculiar service and gift was?

J.T. Yes. His particular service was not marked out for him till he had served a year at Antioch, but initially it was to come through the saints at Damascus. So that no servant is sent out in independency; in normal conditions the saints lay their hands upon him. In due course it will be seen that his commission and his gift are from the Lord. At Antioch you get the full levitical thought: they committed themselves to Barnabas and Saul and "let them go", but they did not send them, they were "sent forth by the Holy Spirit".

Ques. Would the assembly be able to see gift as it comes to light, and be concerned as to its development?

J.T. I think that is right; the assembly should be able to name the effect of the divine work. As we see the effect of divine work we are to name it. Take for instance Barnabas, he was surnamed by the apostles "son of consolation" -- that was the fruit of the divine work.

Ques. How would you connect the Lord giving a commission to Judas with an unconverted man now taking up such a position?

J.T. We cannot say very much; it is a question of what Scripture recognises, that Judas was used; and even an unconverted man might be used of God in His sovereignty. We are, however, speaking now of the characteristics of the economy, the true thought is bondmanship and what underlies that thought is, love as seen in Christ.

G.C. Paul, in writing to Timothy, says, "the servant of the Lord must not strive".

J.T. A very important side of the instruction governing service.

H.B. You have referred to the ministerial side of it, those who are serving publicly; would it include the bondmen and bondmaidens who do not take up that service, but have other work?

J.T. Quite so; we are all taken into it. In Revelation the bondmen of the Lord were sealed on their foreheads, there are a hundred and forty-four thousand of them; we shall see that the idea is inclusive of all the saints; every saint is in principle brought into the administrative side of the economy, not only to be benefited in it, but to be a benefit in it.

Ques. Would Colossians 4:12 bring that in? It says, "Epaphras, who is one of you, the bondman of Christ Jesus, salutes you, always combating earnestly for you in prayers, to the end that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God".

J.T. Praying is certainly a good part of the service, and especially if you have to combat; it is real work. "For this cause I bow my knees", Paul said, meaning that the work is so great that it is pressing on you. So Elijah put his face between his knees; that is real service, agonising in prayer, combating in it, that the end might be reached. It is a question if here is a greater service that can be rendered than that, and Epaphras was that kind of bondman.

Ques. Would this thought of bondmanship apply especially today when, in some countries, governments are making demands on the saints, and, in other countries, it is trade unions and such-like organisations? Would all that be met on the ground that you are a bondman?

J.T. I think we shall be helped on that point; it belongs to chapter 7 of our subject, but it is well to have it in mind here so that we may see the drift of what is in view, the varied features into which the

subject of bondmanship enters. Chapter 7 refers to "the bondmen of our God" being sealed; but the beginning of Revelation is striking as linking, on, as I believe, with Mark 13, and explaining what the Lord said, that the Son does not know, the angels do not know, the Father reserving the matter to Himself. "Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to shew to his bondmen what must shortly take place; and he signified it, sending by his angel, to his bondman John, who testified the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, all things that he saw". There is nothing outside of what he saw, so it is all on the principle of bondmanship -- the bondmen are all to know this; but there is one selected, a trusted one, one whom Jesus loved, to whom the Lord signified this revelation. The word "signified" is taken from the word "sign" -- it is what marks the whole book, but John understands it. The Revelation is signified to him by an angel and he testifies it as "the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ". The book of the Revelation becomes, therefore, the word of God, and John was to testify all things he saw; he is thus a first-hand witness.

We can see thus how the principle of Mark 13 is stressed here, and that in these last days, when these great things that are signified by the angel to John are taking place, or about to take place, our understanding of them depends on bondmanship. There are those who take up Revelation and make much of the signs and symbols and compare them with current events, and all that, but it is a question of "the word of God" and bondmen taking it up, it is shown to them. The whole book is sent to the seven assemblies, through John, but the general thought is that the Apocalypse is the Apocalypse of Jesus Christ which God gave to Him, and He signified it, sending by His angel, to His bondman

John. It was for the bondmen -- that Jesus might show to His bondmen things which must shortly come to pass, and it is signified by a bondman, a particular one, a known, trusted one, namely John, who carried the commission out faithfully -- he testified of all things that he saw.

Ques. John says, "and the testimony of Jesus Christ" -- what is the bearing of that, following on the word of God?

J.T. It is the "Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him", and then John is the bondman "who testified the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, all things that he saw". "Jesus Christ" is a well-known formal title, it is not exactly the anointed One, that is "Christ Jesus", but rather the kind of man in the position of Christ -- Jesus Christ; a well-known title, known to the saints as signifying quality, signifying endurance, what goes through in spite of all exigencies.

Ques. John here speaks of the importance of seeing and reading and hearing and keeping, do these four things suggest important features of the bondmen?

J.T. Quite so. There is a special blessing attaching to the reading of the book. "Blessed is he that reads, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things written in it". The bondmen would be marked by taking these things up, and it seems as if the Lord would encourage us at these readings now to persevere in these thoughts. Many may not be able to follow very well, none of us understands much, but the Lord, I think, would encourage us, by the premium attaching to this matter, to draw out the interest of the brethren here, young and old, so that we might come into this -- the blessing. This is all introductory, for John wrote I suppose, after the Apocalypse was given to him, the Spirit helping him, and it should be an

incentive to us to follow what the Lord sets forth, so that we might be more prepared to continue to the end in the attitude of bondmen. It is not optional; many take up things as if it were an optional matter, but there is no such thought in bondmanship as that; it is imperative, the will of the Lord is imperative, I must die to carry it out.

H.B. Do the "oughts" in John's first epistle enforce this?

J.T. Yes.

Ques. "The faithful and true witness" is to characterise all that there is for God?

J.T. Yes. Things are so often taken up lightly and superficially amongst us, as if they were just optional, but that will not do at all in the light of bondmanship.

W.B. Does Habakkuk give you an idea of a trusted bondman in his outlook and his care for the work of God? He says, "I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch to see what he will say unto me, and what I shall answer when I am reproved", Habakkuk 2l.

J.T. I think that is an excellent confirmation of what has been said. All the prophets were marked by this, as we shall see at the end of the book, the angel was one of them.

J.G. In Hebrews the apostle says, "Obey your leaders, and be submissive; for they watch over your souls as those that shall give account; that they may do this with joy, and not groaning, for this would be unprofitable for you". Then I was thinking of the word in Mark, "what I say to you, I say to all, Watch". In Hebrews we are to watch lest any one fails of the grace of God -- a word to all of us -- "lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one meal sold his birthright". He "found no place for repentance although he sought it

earnestly with tears". In these scriptures we have the thought of authority in those who watch for our souls, and that we should watch lest any of us fail of the grace of God.

BONDMEN OF GOD (2)

Revelation 7:1 - 8; Revelation 11:15 - 18

J.T. It may not be known to all, some not having the better translation, that the word "servants" in these verses is more properly "bondmen" -- that is why they are read. It is thought that we should revert to chapter 1 in order to see how the bondman who was selected by the Lord, and to whom this book is signified, speaks of God, by the Spirit. He writes to the seven assemblies (verse 4), "Grace to you and peace from him who is, and who was, and who is to come"; and in verse 8 we have a further announcement: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, he who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty". The Lord has been helping His people in regard to God, both as to His absoluteness, which is beyond us to comprehend or even apprehend, and also particularly in His relativeness as come into revelation through the incarnation of one of the Persons of the Godhead; and it is significant that, in the introduction to this book, we should have these allusions to God, first "who is", and then "who was", and then "who is to come". God is thus alluded to, first, as nearly as possible for our apprehension, as to what He is absolutely -- He who is; then what He is historically -- He who was; and finally what He is prophetically -- He who is to come.

Over against this we have, in the symbols of the living creatures in chapter 4, verse 8 -- "they cease not day and night saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, who was, and who is, and who is to come" -- the historical side as to God is presented first by them, what He has been in relation to the creation. The reference in chapter 1 is significant, that the bondman selected by the Lord begins with God, as we may say, as nearly as possible in the absolute, and if the gain of the help the Lord has given has

been absorbed, there will be this more inward understanding with us as to God. In the book of Exodus, to which we have alluded already, we have, in Moses, a ministry corresponding somewhat with John's, that is, a ministry flowing out of the peculiar revelation made, Jehovah telling Moses to say, "I AM hath sent me"; Moses was to be representative of that, not simply of God as known historically by the fathers -- what He was, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, but of God "who is". He is Himself, aside from being the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He is greater than what is known of Him historically. In our giving of thanks in the assembly, as a rule, we are more conversant with the historical side, we speak of what is historical rather than of what God is. Now Moses was conversant with God as no one else was, evidenced by his writings in the Pentateuch, and in the first ascription of praise that we get (we may say the introduction of assembly service in type) (Exodus 15), we have the first mention of Jah, which is an allusion to the great name revealed to Moses, but evidently a suggestion of a special insight that Moses had spiritually as to God. (See foot-note in the New Translation.)

I thought we might begin with that this time, that we may follow on in what God is doing and be equal to these great matters in the Apocalypse. This book is not something brought out; it is not a declaration, but a "revelation", and it contemplates we have been saying, bondmanship, but also spiritual capacity, because the Lord spoke to the overcomer in Philadelphia about His God, as if there would be understanding, not simply of God in a general sense, but of His God, that is, God known by man according to what God is.

Ques. Would God being all in all connect with "him who is"?

J.T. I think that is right; you allude to 1 Corinthians 15:28. He is all in all, meaning that everything is filled with Him, it is not a mere objective thought there as to those who are blessed -- He is all in all.

Rem. I was thinking of your remark that we appear to know more about God in a historical way, than as to what He is.

J.T. Yes. Of course, worship is acceptable to God, whatever its measure, for He is seeking it -- He is seeking worshippers whatever their measure -- but I think this opening contemplates a great measure in those who are able to speak to God as He "who is, and who was, and who is to come". In verse 8. God Himself speaks, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, he who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty" -- He adds that very comforting thought.

Ques. What do you mean in saying, that God all in all is not objective?

J.T. Well, in one sense God is always objective, but I mean the two thoughts are together. He is all, but in the sense of being in all, that is, every vessel filled. In the new man "Christ is everything, and in all". God is all as in us, the vessels are filled completely; there is no vacuum, nothing unfilled, in eternity. I only wanted to begin with this great thought that the brethren might have in mind in our present reading what God has been doing in helping us as to Himself, especially in regard to our worship, because (and it is a remarkable thing) this book is marked by the thought of the worship of God. As I said, the selected bondman addresses the assembly in this way, saying, "Grace to you and peace from him who is, and who was, and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the prince of

the kings of the earth". Then there is the ascription of praise, "To him who loves us, and has washed us from our sins in his blood, and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father: to him be the glory and the might to the ages of ages. Amen". Then, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, he who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty", as if to confirm what the bondman had said by the Spirit and to secure everything -- He is the Almighty.

Ques. Would you say more on the thought of knowing God in an historical way?

J.T. Well, it is not to be despised at all, we must have the historical, and that is seen in Exodus, the first ministerial book. The revelation to Moses includes the historical side, but his commission was from the "I AM". He who is, as we get it here; but He said at the same time, "I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob", that is, the cumulative thought is there, always carried through, but the Lord Himself said, "Before Abraham was, I am", not 'I was', but "I am", carrying the great thought of God down. We have alluded to the place the historical side is to have in our service; of course it is to be valued, we cannot be without it, it involves the cross, it involves the testimony that has come to us, but then there is the great thought of "who is", and we should inquire whether we have spiritual power to speak to God viewed in that way.

H.P.W. Have we the two put together in the two quests of Moses? He said first, "shew me now thy way", Exodus 33:13 -- would that correspond with the historical? And then, "shew me thy glory" (verse 8). Would that be God Himself?

J.T. Yes, that helps. It requires the incarnation God to be seen in the sense of His glory, but in principle, the revelation made to Moses at the bush

is what we are speaking of -- "I am". The first great contribution for the service of God in song, it seems to me, involves an inwardness with Moses who is the leader of that song; it is alluded to indeed in this book as "the song of Moses". There is an inwardness in it, and the singers are carried far beyond where their feet were at the time -- not only to the abode of His holiness, which would be in the wilderness, in the tabernacle, I suppose, but into the place which He had prepared for Himself to dwell in -- He would bring them there; that opens up all that we have in David. Even in Moses himself, in Deuteronomy 32:39, much is made, as will be seen in the New Translation, of the title, the Same -- it is the Deity. You get "Jah" used by Moses, in Exodus 15, and you get "the Same" in his great poetical contribution in Deuteronomy 32. Singing seems to me to be the leading mode of God's service, because it involves spiritual emotions, these giving the Spirit more scope.

F.I. Is your thought that we should sing to God, referring to what He is in Himself?

J.T. Well, we sing to Him as made known, of course. He is declared and revealed; the declaration is one thing (John 1:18), and the revelation is another, which is usually to individuals or groups of persons; but then He has come. "No one has seen God at any time", but John says that "he that abides in love abides in God, and God in him".

H.C. Moses said in Exodus 15, "Who is like unto thee. Jehovah, among the gods?"; in Deuteronomy 32 he says, "He is the Rock, his work is perfect ... Just and right is he". Is all that in the sense of the present greatness of God?

J.T. I think so.

A.W.R. In 2 Samuel 7, David says, "And now, Lord Jehovah, thou art that God, and thy words are

true, and thou hast promised this goodness unto thy servant".

J.T. Yes -- "Thou art that God ..." He was there, as it were, surrounded by God, and sitting before Him. It is in such circumstances that we get the deepest thoughts of God, they may go beyond what we have reached hitherto. But as reaching these conceptions in spirit, we move towards them. Exodus 15 is a pattern for us; the singers go far beyond what they have reached experimentally, but their contribution is a known thing in the service of God henceforth. What Miriam and the women said represents the experimental side. What Moses and the children of Israel say is more objective; but in the song the Spirit of God had scope, and hence greater penetration as to God and His purpose was attained.

A.R. When you speak of God in the absolute, do you include Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

J.T. Not under those titles.

A.R. Do you include in your mind the three Persons?

J.T. Certainly, but those three names belong to Them in the economy in revelation.

A.R. I was thinking of how you are suggesting that we might address God as such, the God who is, that would include the three Persons in the Godhead, would it?

J.T. We have to make allowance for the change involved in the economy. In service Godward two of the Persons are on our side, that is, we are served by the Spirit of adoption and we are served by Christ as the Minister of the sanctuary, so that Ephesians says, "through him" (that is Christ) "we have both" (Jew and gentile) "access by one Spirit to the Father". It is through Christ, by the Spirit, we have access to the Father, and the Father is addressed as God.

A.R. I was thinking of God in the absolute, as you speak, not exactly of God as the Father, but the God "who is".

J.T. We must include the three Persons if we speak abstractly, but I think we ought to learn to regard Them as Scripture presents Them in the relations into which They have come: "to us there is one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him", 1 Corinthians 8:6. Christ has brought us in, but the Father is God as the objective.

F.I. As to addressing God in the absolute, can you have the three Persons before your mind thus?

J.T. You say, addressing God in the absolute; it is just a question as to how far we can apprehend God in the absolute -- I do not think a creature can. But it is plainly shown in Scripture that the Trinity existed before creation -- that is, in absoluteness, yet there was nothing for Them to be related to.

F.I. It is a question of what has been brought out, declared or revealed, that you are in a position to rise up and offer praise or worship to God in that sense, as that God.

J.T. Yes -- "who is"; but I would have the Father in mind if I were in assembly and speaking to God -- in fact at any time. It is through Him -- that is, Christ -- who has taken a place alongside us to serve us and to serve God, it is "through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father" (Ephesians 2:18); that is, I think, the proper setting for the service of God. The Father is the "one God". You say, Well, it must include the others. But why should we say that, when They have come into an economy in which two of Them are viewed as in an inferior position, which They have taken in order to carry out the will and service of God? I do not think we should attempt to circumvent the position.

When you address God, you address the Father -- "to us there is one God, the Father", but at the same time it is plain that the Son and the Spirit are in inscrutable equality with the Father.

F.I. So that, when you address God you still have Him in view as the Father?

J.T. Well, it is how He is known. The title "Father" belongs to the relative position, but He is same Being. We can apprehend the idea of Father and apprehend Him as God. The title God conveys the idea of the Deity as understandable by man; it denotes the understanding men have from God, as to Himself, that He is supreme and has all authority, and so forth; but what is behind that we have to leave. He has come out to us in the relation of Father, which is intelligible to us, and all that He is enters into that, and I speak to Him as Father with that in mind.

Ques. Does the order in John 20 help? The Lord says first, My Father, and then My God. Would you have the Father before you in moving up to the higher position -- you go that way?

J.T. God is the final thought, you mean?

Rem. Yes, but reached through the Father.

J.T. That is what I was thinking, the idea is progressive, the Lord beginning with "my Father", a very intelligible thought, for they contemplated Christ as an only One with a Father. Then you go on from that to "my God".

Rem. I suppose we have always to remember that there are certain things that have been revealed and that are available to us; there are also certain things that are secret, as it says in Deuteronomy 29:29; those are not available to us. We are to take advantage of what is revealed, and to leave the other as God has left it.

J.T. That is, I think, what we are being helped in. The statement as to God, abstractly, is that no

one has seen Him or can see Him; it is not exactly that He is secret, but the creature cannot see Him.

H.B. The glorious greatness of God is behind all that is revealed.

J.T. Yes. The idea of Father is intelligible; the Son is contemplated as with Him.

W.A. What would be involved in the last verse of Ephesians 2 -- the saints being "builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit", and then the thought "God is a Spirit"?

J.T. It refers to the way He has come in to dwell with men, all that belongs to the economy; it is God dwelling here by the Spirit.

Rem. To address God intelligently, we must know Him as in the economy.

J.T. Yes, it is Christ's Father and Christ's God. So, in the book of Revelation, we have the Lord speaking to the overcomer in Philadelphia about His God four times over in chapter 3. I am only detaining the brethren on this point so that enriched, as is fitting, we might consider the book of Revelation. The bondman selected is a known and trusted one, one whom Jesus loved, and he brings God in and gives Him His place as God, and Christ His place as the Christ, and the Spirit His place as the Spirit -- the seven Spirits that are before His throne.

Rem. One who is in the bosom of Jesus would have the ability to bring that out.

H.B. There is an ascription of praise to God on this line in the last chapter of 1 Chronicles, as David addresses God according to His greatness apart from what is historical.

J.T. I think that in both Moses and David, and indeed in all the leading servants you get this. The more spiritual we are the more we shall seek to touch it, and will touch it -- this ascription of praise or worship to God because of what He is. Think of what it must have been to God to look down here

those who could speak of Jesus according to what He is! The prophets could all anticipate that.

We might just approach chapter 7 -- as to this matter of the bondmen being sealed by the seal of the living God. We have them in chapter 1, fully represented in John, apostle as he was, now the bondman; then we have them in chapter 2, the enemy seeking to corrupt them through Jezebel; she teaches these bondmen to commit fornication and to eat idol sacrifices, so that it is a warning to us, as taking up this attitude of bondmen, that we are still exposed to the corruption of Jezebel's religious influences. In chapter 7 God is beginning over again in relation to Israel, and they are viewed as His bondmen. The four angels are seen "standing upon the four corners of the earth, holding fast the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow upon the earth, nor upon the sea, nor upon any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the sun-rising, having the seal of the living God; and he cried with loud voice to the four angels to whom it had been given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying, Hurt not the earth, nor the sea, nor the trees, until we shall have sealed the bondmen of our God upon their foreheads". God is sealing His bondmen, but it is with the seal of the living God. This was called attention to this morning as over against other marks that are put upon men, and are so prevalent today.

S.S. Would it help to see from Acts 2:17 that bondmen and bondwomen are brought in as being sealed with the Spirit of God?

J.T. That is a passage that fits into our scripture, too, for the seal of the living God implies something of the Spirit, and this passage in Acts 2 is suggestive of a divine call now for young men and young women, and men too, bondmen and bondwomen, to come into what God is doing. Here we have the "seal", so that the bondmen of God are marked off

-- it is the seal of the living God. They are alive in some sense, not dead, not following with the stream of trade unionism and all those other isms that are stamped upon men; there is a very loud testimony against it all now, yet many are held in these unions; they have their own mark, their own characteristic stamp.

S.S. One would be thankful if you could help us a little on that line, particularly having regard to the fact that many of us who are in particular callings, are often obliged to join societies of professional men, that we might be able to operate in the professional world.

J.T. Well, I think there is light enough amongst the brethren on the matter; what is needed is courage to suffer, courage to go forward in what is right and accept the consequent sufferings. I believe the way out, the way of deliverance for every one of us, is in the acceptance of the consequences of faithfulness to the truth, and that involves suffering. Of course, as to associations as in all else God is infinitely fair, and He treats each item by itself, as we learn in the prophet Amos, "For three transgressions ... and for four"; God takes each matter up by itself and regards it by itself, so that we ought to be discriminative, and not to be too general in our classification. If we are in an association that is murderous, there is no question about that, it is utterly out of keeping with the christian profession.

E.G. Is that why we have had the greatness of God brought before us, so that we might have power to withstand all these influences?

J.T. Verse 8 of chapter 1 is encouraging in that way -- it is "the Almighty".

H.B. A word that comes in in Corinthians is very encouraging in that connection: "I will be to you for a Father, and ye shall be to me for sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty", 2 Corinthians 6:18.

A.E.L. In 2 Corinthians 1 we are sealed and anointed -- "He that establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, is God, who also has sealed us". Could you tell us the difference between the two in connection with what we are saying?

J.T. That is an important passage, as linked on with what we are engaged with. "He that establishes us with you in Christ ... is God" -- a very great thought; then, "has anointed us" -- God has done all that. He "establishes us with you"; the minister is linking himself on with the saints, carrying them along with him indeed. 2 Corinthians is to show, among other things, that the minister, to be effective, is to carry the brethren along with him, not to rule over their faith; he is established with them by God, and anointed, too, by God. Then, God has sealed us. Anointing is for testimony, for dignity, power; sealing is to show ownership, that we belong to God and this gives Him His place. Then the third thing is, "given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts", that is, to set us up, enriching us with what is needed to support us in this position.

H.P.W. You made a reference to the word as to Philadelphia, "I will write upon him the name of my God", and I was wondering whether having the seal of God in their foreheads would show the uncompromising character they take up, seeing the dignity that is put upon them as having the name of God upon them. Would it help in connection with unholy associations such as trade unionism and the like?

J.T. I thought so. I think it is over against what we shall come to later in the mark of the beast. It is not only that it is wrong to have the mark of the beast, but God makes definite issue with it in chapter 14. What you allude to links on with what we are saying, only, of course, the idea of writing, as applied to an overcomer in Philadelphia, would mean

that he is material for such writing as that: "the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven, from my God, and my new name". There is the additional thought of the writing material; it is remarkable material that the overcomer in Philadelphia affords; he is not an ordinary believer, but an overcomer in those circumstances, and evidently he is impressionable, one upon whom the Lord can write such exalted names.

Ques. What is the thought in being sealed in their foreheads?

J.T. Intelligence is involved, I think; but it is prominent, that which can be seen; that is, you are not a unionist privately or secretly, you are not one at all, because you have this in your forehead; you want to be consistent with this seal.

H.C. Would it be consistent with the apostle's word, "Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity", 2 Timothy 2:19?

J.T. Yes. It is iniquitous for a christian to be linked with an association that is murderous in its spirit. A christian is to respect what is rightly due to man and to think of God's rights in relation to himself and others.

Rem. The mark of the beast is on the hand as well as the forehead.

J.T. He is taking on, not only the mental ability of the people, but also their physical ability; they are taken on wholly for his use.

H.W.R. Is it important to note the words, "the bondmen of our God"?

J.T. The thought is used much here -- "our God", and we need to remember that; not simply "God", but "our God is a consuming fire".

Ques. He has power to deal with everything most drastically. Is there any connection between this

and the engraving of the names on the high priest's shoulders and breastplate?

J.T. This is more ownership; the other is engraving in precious stones, meaning that the saints are cherished in the affections of Christ, each according to his name. I suppose it is the tribes in testimony, because the actual names are not given in the breastplate; the twelve tribes are there, but according to sovereign arrangements not according to their birth, which would allude, I believe, to the position of the tribes as encircling the tabernacle; it is taking account of them down here, how they are supported in that relation. On the shoulder-pieces, it is according to their birth, but the names on the breastplate inside, I think, correspond with the positions of the tribes in testimony outside, so that they should be supported in dignity according to the counsels of God; they are set there according to divine counsels, not according to their birth. Here it is the bondmen of our God, and the administrative number is intensified, not only twelve, but twelve times twelve; that is, God has His bondmen now to carry on; and He is going on in a large way, and in those who are entirely amenable to Him, not controlled by other influences, such as unionism. That is what christians ought to be in this world. This, of course, is Israel in the future in view of millennial testimony, but we ought not to be behind them, they are entirely His in view of the great administration that is opening up. It is a great triumph that God has these, and the winds are held up till He carries out this sealing.

E.G. What is the significance of the angel ascending from the sun rising?

J.T. The allusion, I think, is to the dawn of another day. The west is the end of something; the rising of the sun is always full of hope, spiritually it is what God is going to do now, and there is

assurance in the fact that He has His bondmen and He is sealing them and they are numbered -- He has made a selection. Notice, it is "out of" in every case, that is, they are taken out for a purpose and taken out of all that is contrary to God. They are entirely for His will -- the manipulative number twelve means that.

W.H. Would the representative number from each tribe represent that there is an answer to the truth in every feature of it?

J.T. Yes, the divine thoughts extending back to Genesis are to be worked out in spite of all. "These are the twelve tribes of Israel". They begin in Genesis, and God has never lost sight of them; now He has got them and they are His bondmen.

A.E.L. Why is the tribe Dan omitted?

J.T. Dan introduced apostasy into Israel, possibly that is the reason. The twelve tribes will be there, but his name is not given.

Ques. Is the expression "out of" an exercising word?

J.T. I thought so -- that, is why I mentioned it. Certainly I do not want to be in anything that is contrary to this seal. "Sealed out of" -- I suppose the tribes will be there in an external way; they are now going back to the land in unbelief, but God is going to make a selection, and this will be the fruit of His own work in them.

Rem. I was thinking of brethrenism in itself -- it may be the bondmen of God will come out of that as out of everything that is set up.

J.T. Yes, brethrenism may merge into Edom; that is really what it is. Brethrenism as a recognised religious sect on earth takes on the character of Edom; and God says at the end of the Old Testament, I hate Edom. It is not a question of christians individually, but the thing itself, according to the principle and history of it.

BONDMEN OF GOD (3)

Revelation 10:5 - 11; Revelation 11:15 - 18; Revelation 15:2 - 4

J.T. We are all aware, no doubt, that the word "servants" in these passages is properly rendered "bondmen", and what perhaps will occupy us chiefly this morning is the prophetic services of the bondmen of God. John himself is to be viewed in this book as a prophet, styled formally bondman of Christ, but in chapter 10 he is viewed as a prophet, having prophesied, and being told that he should prophesy again, because of certain conditions that rose in him as the mind of God was assimilated. The Lord Himself is seen as speaking under the guise of an angel in verses 5 to 7; the facts presented in the chapter show it is the Lord Himself. As having title to all below, He puts His right foot on the sea and His left foot on the land and swears "that there should be no longer delay; but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound with the trumpet, the mystery of God also shall be completed, as he has made known the glad tidings to his own bondmen the prophets". The Lord's words here direct our attention to what God has made known to His own bondmen the prophets, that is, the glad tidings, and that they, in their ministries, had spoken of the mystery of God. God's bondmen are taken into His thoughts, as He said, "the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets", Amos 3:7.

Whilst special prophets are in mind here, it may be profitable to call attention to the place that the prophetic ministry is obtaining amongst the saints, and to inquire whether this scripture, indeed, the whole book of Revelation, does not enter into it, for it is a question of bondmanship in those who minister,

those who prophesy, and their being in the secrets of God, having understanding of the times, to know what Israel ought to do, being conversant, too, in the closing days with the mystery of God, knowing that what is now in mystery shall soon be disclosed publicly. The Lord Jesus, in this chapter, is seen as taking possession in principle, or title, of the sea and the earth and asserting these things. Those of us who would take part in prophetic ministry, opportunity for which is available, are to understand that we are to be in the secrets of God. The Lord is giving assurance in the ministry He is giving, corresponding with this chapter, of His title to all, not only in heaven, but on earth, where men and nations are making so much of their titles and rights. There is so much aggressiveness in rulers that the Lord would steady us in taking us into His thoughts as to His rights to everything, and that we do not relinquish them, we stand by them. I thought we might have that before us, and the terms on which John is to be allowed to continue, for we are tested in the continuance of any ministry we may have. The testimony here was that the little book, as eaten, was in his mouth sweet, but in his belly bitter, and so it is said, "Thou must prophesy again", as if he is thus qualified to continue; it is a renewed test to him, as we all are tested in our services.

H.B. What is the point in the effect upon him, making his belly bitter?

J.T. I think it is that you feel things, you feel the effect of the accomplishment of the divine counsels and what the process is for the saints, what is involved in it for them, and for men generally. John was representative, I think, of a servant who feels things, both in regard to God's feelings and man's; we are not to be unfeeling in our service. The word of God is sweet as it is, to faith, to those who love God, but still, the consequences of it, or what it

discloses, may occasion much sorrow, and we are not to be unfeeling about that.

H.B. Then, it is not only the effect of his service on the one who serves, but he feels the effect of it on others.

J.T. That is what I was thinking. There is much sorrow current, and there will be more. God is going on with His ways, and of course the great culmination of His governmental ways will be Jacob's sorrow. It is a question of the spirit of prophecy always, the testimony of Jesus. "Jesus wept" -- it enters into the testimony of Jesus, that He could weep as seeing the sorrow of others.

Ques. The order in verse 9 is that the bitterness comes first; what would you say to that?

J.T. That was what the angel said, "Take and eat it up: and it shall make thy belly bitter, but in thy mouth it shall be sweet as honey". I suppose that is the consideration of God for the servants, divine feeling, sympathy with us in our service as to what we have to go through. The Lord said of Paul that He would show him what great things he had to suffer. Actually, the sweetness was first.

A.W.R. Would Jeremiah be an example of that chapter 4: 19 in regard to Jerusalem? "My bowels! my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war". Would he be a sample man for the present day in taking up the spirit of prophecy?

J.T. Jeremiah is a representative prophet, a feeling prophet; he is the only one who wrote a book of lamentation; he represents the side of the truth we are speaking of.

Ques. Do you get the same thought suggested in Ezekiel, when he had eaten the roll, he lay on his

left side for three hundred and ninety days to bear the iniquity of the people of Israel, and for forty days on his right side to bear the iniquity of Judah? Does he represent one who bore in his spirit the feelings of sorrow that enter into that moment?

J.T. Quite so, he is representative, not only of the feelings of Christ, but of the actual sufferings of Christ. The testimony of Jesus is what is in mind in the prophecy, the spirit of it.

E.G. Is it your thought that the contents of this little book would probably involve details of the life of Jesus as a bondman?

J.T. Well, it is a little book, the details of the life of Jesus will make a big book; John himself said that if the things which Jesus did were fully written, the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. The littleness of the book would imply that its contents are not for enlargement, but necessary for the testimony. It is the history of Europe, I believe, that is, the history of the area in which the testimony has been in this dispensation. It is opened, it is not a mystery: it is known, and the fact that it was to be eaten would convey that although what it conveyed was known, it was not taken to heart. John was now to understand that serious consequences were involved in its accomplishment. The history of Europe is not a mystery, although the mystery of iniquity has been developed in it, and is intelligible to the initiated, but the actual history is a small matter; things relative to the testimony directly and indirectly, enter into it, but generally it is a question of a few things -- man's will, and God does not enlarge on that too much. He gives us enough, however. The little book is, of course, more than mere history; it is the mind of God as to the history: what would be the result judicially of the history -- already known, but now to be taken to heart as to its full bearing.

Ques. Would the last verse bear out your suggestion in connection with the history of Europe?

J.T. Yes -- "Thou must prophesy again as to peoples and nations and tongues and many kings". It is the mind of God, of course, but the little book gives you, in a small compass, what is to be known, and the suggestion is, I think, that we are not to spend too much time on current events. The little book is in the hands of Christ, and, as it were, it is all open, the end is sure. So that, in these verses that were read earlier, it says, he "cried with a loud voice as a lion roars", but in these verses it is a question of the completion of things, and what is interesting peculiarly is that the mystery of God is to be completed "as he has made known the glad tidings to his own bondmen the prophets".

Ques. What is the significance of that -- the mystery of God being completed?

J.T. Well, it is not exactly what we call the mystery of the assembly. Paul had that peculiarly. It is what lies in the prophetic testimony of the Old Testament as well as the New, that the Lord Himself carried on, the prophetic ministry recorded in the three synoptical gospels. It is what God had in His mind in regard of His earthly people, how all will come out and develop publicly, but He directs our minds to God's bondmen the prophets, and that it was the glad tidings. I think if we read the prophets with this in mind, they will open up to us.

Ques. Would the bitterness that follows the eating of the little book stand in contrast to the world and the men of it who would read this history with great pride and exultation?

J.T. Just so. The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and all modern occurrences are read with avidity. It is not that they should not be understood, but I think the suggestion is that things are told to us in a few words.

Rem. The little book, in that way, would enable one to prophesy in the midst of those conditions.

J.T. I think so. I think one should have a general understanding of what is in the little book. The Lord gives a prophetic outline in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 -- three aspects of it. They are not copied from one to the other, but the discourse is comparatively brief; it is all, as it were, the Lord has to say on this matter. He has said enough for faith. In understanding what He said, and of course what is opened up by the other ministers -- Paul and Peter particularly, and Jude, and now in the Revelation -- one is able to take part in the ministry meeting, as we say, and to speak with intelligence and point, bringing in the mind of God as to all that. The Spirit being here would enlarge on what is written in the souls of the prophets, those who prophesy, so that the mind of God is understood.

W.H. Would the glad tidings be the unfolding of the mind of God in regard of Christ, giving you great scope, but the little book referring to what would stand in the way of that?

J.T. What is in it? -- exactly. One is struck with the number of prophets, major and minor, and the prophetic outline running through the New Testament, all entering into the gospel; the heart of God is set forth in the gospel and His bondmen are brought into His thoughts, hence the prophet Isaiah is evangelical. It is most thrilling, as you might say, at times, to read the magnificent strains of Isaiah in the gospel, and so, in measure, throughout all the prophets.

G.C.S. That is why Isaiah speaks of the nations as a drop in the bucket and fine dust in the scales.

J.T. Yes. The nations in themselves are nothing, and God sits on the circle of the earth. They are nothing in His mind, but then He has the gospel in mind, and a man who is needing the gospel is

reading the prophet Isaiah, he is going down from Jerusalem to Ethiopia reading the fifty-third chapter; and the evangelist says, "Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me?" So "Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus", Acts 8:31, 35. That is the setting of the truth as we are speaking of it.

H.P.W. Do you think, in seeking to present the gospel in these days, we should have in mind the almost immediate appearing of the glory, and therefore we should speak in a powerful way of the coming of Christ and the kingdom? Should this have a large place in what we say?

J.T. I think it should, I do not know if you have counted up the appellations of the gospel in the Scriptures.

H.P.W. Yes, there are eighteen or nineteen.

J.T. Yes; showing the wonderful interest of God in the presentation of the gospel. The prophets inquired into the things they ministered -- "what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ which was in them pointed out, testifying before of the sufferings which belonged to Christ, and the glories after these. To whom it was revealed, that not to themselves but to you they ministered those things, which have now been announced to you by those who have declared to you the glad tidings by the Holy Spirit, sent from heaven", 1 Peter 1:11, 12. All is gathered up in the gospel.

E.G. Will you say a little more as to the book being sweet in his mouth.

J.T. Well, I think the mind of God is always sweet to one who loves Him. "Thy words were found", says Jeremiah, "and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart", Jeremiah 15:16. But then he knew how to be sorrowful, too.

H.B. You have referred to the ministry meeting and to what should come before us in connection with prophecy; do you think, from what has been suggested in these scriptures, that it should have a bearing on the present conditions amongst the saints, or in the world, as the case may be?

J.T. I think so. I think, as has been suggested, the little book should be understood, because what is current is generally exaggerated in its significance; we are apt to exaggerate what is occurring. One who understands the little book would say, "he who now letteth [hindereth] will let until he be taken out of the way", 2 Thessalonians 2:7. That is, He is functioning. While the appointed means of preventing the rise of antichrist is functioning the antichrist will not come; there may be antichrists, but the antichrist will not come; and our prayers should be always based, in that respect, on that sure word of promise. There is that which hinders and He who hinders, and they are functioning, so that whatever may occur in the meantime is not final, it is tentative more or less, to acquaint the saints with what is coming, that we might have sympathy anticipatively with the brethren that are to take our place here. They will suffer, but the Lord has promised the assembly through His letter to Philadelphia, that we shall be kept out of the great tribulation that is to come on all the earth to try them that dwell on the earth. Persons who are dwelling on the earth characteristically, even if christians, are to be solemnly warned, of course, but the heavenly saints are to be taken out of that, and that is a great comfort. Yet the little book is intended to instruct us by inference that we are not to be indifferent to current things. There is a protracted bearing of the book of Revelation, that it has reference to what was current when it was written, and what has occurred ever since too, bearing on the testimony of God, but then, it

mainly refers to a critical time, that is, the time after the hindering power is removed. In understanding this we are enabled, by what is and has been current, to understand what will be; and the prophetic ministry in our meetings ought to bear on all these things, so as to help the saints not to be merely theoretic. Surely I am not to be an earth-dweller if the tribulation is intended for earth-dwellers! -- that is the moral effect of it.

F.I. When you say we should be acquainted with current events, you refer, I take it, to what is taking place among the nations of the world now? In what way is that profitable for us?

J.T. It is God's provision, it is preparatory. The book of Revelation contemplates what has transpired from the time it was written, or given, until the end; but 2 Thessalonians teaches us that there is a hindering power. There is the mystery of iniquity which has been, and is, working, but there is the hindering power, so that it cannot develop fully until the hindrance is removed, and we can count on that, it functions and will function. In current events we get indications of what will happen, and that enables us to understand this book -- the section we are looking at now -- and to see how a thing can happen quickly; what would not be expected or dreamed of ten years ago has come to pass. The critical stage contemplated in this book implies that things will come to pass very quickly -- "When they may say, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction ..." I think it should sober us, but it gives us an understanding, an insight into things, to see this. We are speaking of the prophetic word; it will not help us to look deeply into the newspapers. How voluminous they are as over against the little book! The Lord would say that the latter is all that is needed. And He can make this remarkable announcement, bearing on what was made known to God's bondmen

through the glad tidings, that that is coming to completion. Well, that is very comforting.

Ques. Would it be right to say that one result of eating the little book would be, "Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord we persuade men", 2 Corinthians 5:11?

J.T. Well, exactly -- the terror of the Lord.

H.B. How would the voices in heaven, in chapter 11, bear on this? Would that be future, or is there a present bearing connected with it?

J.T. Well, it is the seventh angel sounding now. The Lord said, in the verses read in chapter 10, "the seventh angel, when he is about to sound" -- that is beforehand, but in chapter 11 we have the seventh angel sounding his trumpet. I am wondering whether the brethren are gathering up anything about the prophetic ministry, for John is reminded that he can now prophesy again. It is not because there are meetings that we can go on, there must be right feelings with us. So, in the beginning of chapter 11, we have two prophets, and they suffered -- let us not leave that out, that the prophets are sure to suffer. "Which of the prophets", said Stephen, "have not your fathers persecuted?" There was no prophet that was not persecuted -- so we may as well expect suffering. The two witnesses are called prophets, and they suffered.

Ques. Do you suggest that prophetic testimony is something additional to what we have had, the Spirit speaking at certain moments, prophetic ministry coming in in keeping with the conditions?

J.T. Yes, it meets current need. It is no question of foretelling future events, yet there is the spirit of that in it. It is always the testimony of Jesus, so that as the prophetic ministry searches a man, the secrets of his heart are made manifest, and the first result is that he worships God, and that is the great burden of the book we are considering, and the prophets,

too -- that God is to be worshipped. We are so prone to be diverted and make other things, perhaps business, an object, besides God. John himself had to be directed, in this book, that he should not worship an intermediary of God -- to worship God is the thing. So that prophecy, in this book particularly, is to subdue our hearts and remove from us all commanding objects but God; the Lamb, of course, is also to be worshipped -- but worship God. An unbeliever comes into the meeting and he hears the ministry, and the secrets of his heart are made manifest, and falling down he worships God. That is the great result, the great burden of the moment, the worship of God; that God is the supreme Object of worship, and how He is to be worshipped. The prophetic ministry affects a person so that he worships God, and then he reports that God is among you of a truth.

F.I. By bringing in the thought of the two witnesses, are you thinking that, for ministry to be effective, it must be preceded by right feeling and suffering?

J.T. Well, feeling goes with it; the assimilation of the little book causes deep feeling, and then the word, "Thou must prophesy again". You will not be set aside, another will not be taken up instead of you. Then, as a prophet, as a known person, who conveys the mind of God, according to chapter 11, you are persecuted. This is a searching matter. All this comes in between the sounding of the sixth and seventh trumpets; it is in the interval just coming on to the end that these things happen.

Ques. Is prophetic ministry only given in meetings convened for that purpose?

J.T. I think prophetic ministry may come into a meeting like this; there may be something for us now; the Lord seizes any opportunity to speak to

us, to search our hearts, the secrets of our hearts, and to make known the mind of God.

Ques. In what way would the prophetic ministry be given through sisters now? We read of women in the Acts who prophesied.

J.T. Well, we have to go by the fact that it did take place. We cannot say that it is taking place. I cannot say that I have much experience of it, but I can see that a sister could convey the mind of God in a prophetic way.

Rem. The woman of Samaria said, "Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet"; then the Lord opened up to her the thought of worship, and, as a result of that, she goes into the city and speaks the word.

J.T. That is a good scripture in regard to what we are saying. We have often marvelled that the Lord spoke to that woman of worship, but the basis of that part of the conversation is that she says to Him, "I perceive that thou art a prophet". She was convicted and she proceeds to speak about worship, and the Lord carries on the conversation and says wonderful things to her on that great subject; but prophetic ministry is most important, for it deals with the secrets of our hearts.

W.B. Do you think that the prophet is conscious when he is speaking that the word is penetrating, that it is gripping the saints, so to speak?

J.T. He may be, I think he would be; but the thing is, is it penetrating, so that the secrets of the hearts of the persons who hear are made manifest?

Ques. Does it also affect the conscience? -- he is convicted of all.

J.T. I am glad you mention that, that is, all the saints present are brought into the thing. The man feels that everybody knows now, it is all out.

Ques. Is that character of ministry mostly when we are together?

J.T. Yes, it is the kind of ministry, more than the individual prophets, that is in mind here in the meeting contemplated in the chapter -- 1 Corinthians 14:23.

Ques. Is that why the persecution comes?

J.T. Yes. If a man's conscience is touched by the ministry, and he does not judge himself, he is apt to persecute you. The general thing is that this ministry as current brings out persecution.

Ques. Would the meeting for prophetic ministry indicate to the Lord that we are desirous that He should speak to us; whereas, in other meetings, the Lord might approach Himself as seeing the need?

J.T. The Lord would take advantage of any opportunity, I believe, to speak to His people. "As they were listening ... he added and spake a parable", Luke 19:11.

H.B. We have an illustration of that in the prophetic word of Stephen. The message was so powerful that they must either bow to it or kill the man who carried it.

J.T. Yes, they were cut to the heart, and gnashed on him with their teeth. These ministry meetings are arranged so that there should be such a ministry, for 1 Corinthians 14 particularly deals with an actual meeting. It is not a sub-division of the assembly at Corinth, it is "the whole assembly come together in one place", as if God would say, This is My best, this is where I can operate most effectively. The ministry searches out the inwards of a man, his secrets are manifest, and he is convicted of all, judged of all; but he falls down and worships God and he reports that God is among you of a truth. He is part of the divine system now, in reporting where God is -- that God is among the christians.

H.P.W. Do you think that the day is such that the saints might definitely pray for expansion of this present ministry? One wonders whether, in our

ministry meetings, we have reached as far as the Lord would have us go?

J.T. I do not think we have. It is something the Lord is opening up as a provision in view of current most difficult times; and what is very important is transparency, that the secrets of our hearts are made manifest, that we should feel and own wrong things that are exposed, the dark spot should vanish. The passage read in chapter 15 says, "I saw as a glass sea, mingled with fire, and those that had gained the victory over the beast and over its image, and over the number of its name standing upon the glass sea, having harps of God". That is the thing, everything is open; these are a victorious people, people who have had their hearts searched and their secrets made manifest, and they are victorious over everything. They are not overcome by trade unionism or anything else of the kind; it says they gained the victory over the beast and over the number of its name. They are standing upon the sea of glass having harps of God. They are singers, they are victorious singers, everything made manifest, and therefore we get the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb -- the song of Moses, the bondman of God, that is the kind of man that is before them. It is Christ, of course, but it is the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb that they are singing; for the prophetic ministry is to result in the worship of God, it is to make singers of us. I am not overlooking chapter 11 -- "And the nations have been full of wrath, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead to be judged, and to give the recompense to thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and to those who fear thy name, small and great; and to destroy those that destroy the earth". That is, the bondmen are coming into their recompense -- that is in chapter 11; but the fifteenth chapter is an end, as you might, say, of this lesson, it is the kind

of people that are victorious and how they are made singers, and they have harps, heavenly musical instruments.

E.G. So they are in the good of the whole song now, and further on than when Moses sang, in Exodus 15.

J.T. I think they are beyond Moses now. They have indeed their own song, as their words show. The character of their singing is what is presented, for we are told what they sing -- "Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy; for all nations shall come and do homage before thee; for thy righteousnesses have been made manifest". That is what they say, but they sing the song of Moses, the bondman of God, and the song of the Lamb. What they sing would bear the character of these songs.

Ques. Would you say that we see a touch of this in Acts 16, where Paul and Silas in praying, sing praises to God, and then the jailor falls down and worships God?

J.T. Well, there is something corresponding in that -- "in praying, were praising God with singing", showing that the service of God involves that the servants are superior, they are victorious in the most excruciating sufferings; they were victorious and sang praises to God and the prisoners heard; the prison was turned into a temple and the sufferers were the worshippers.

Rem. In chapter 13: 4 the challenge is put out, "Who is like to the beast? and who can make war with it?" Chapter 15 would indicate that there are those who have the victory.

J.T. Just so. God is all; it is the God of the Old Testament, of course; we are here on Old Testament lines, the continuation of the testimony there, but it is the suffering position. Moses had just gone through the judgments of God on Egypt; it was no

light matter, but he became greater and greater -- the man Moses was very great. It is what the bondman of God becomes morally in going through things with God, and now he is singing on the wilderness side of the Red Sea; it is the bondman of God. How he could write about the Hebrew bondman!

Ques. In chapter 13 there is an appeal to the one with understanding to count the number of the beast, and in chapter 15 they get the victory over the beast, and over its image, and over the number of its name.

J.T. "He that has understanding let him count the number of the beast: for it is a man's number: and its number is six hundred and sixty-six". It can never be anything but a man's number, and it is short of spiritual perfection. But in chapter 15 it is the greatness of God that is seen. The victorious ones say, "Great and wonderful are thy works, Lord God Almighty". The elders in chapter 11 refer to "who is" in the verses read. "And the twenty-four elders, who sit on their thrones before God, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, saying, We give thee thanks, Lord God Almighty, He who is, and who was, that thou hast taken thy great power and hast reigned". They understand God: not simply as the God of the Old Testament, Jehovah Elohim Shaddai, but He who is and who was, who has taken His great power and reigned; and that is over against the number of the beast. It is countable, countable by wisdom; these had gained the victory over that, over the image of the beast and over the number of its name. They are victorious over all this, they have gone through it and met the thing in their experience and overcome it; with all its loud speaking and pretension, they have overcome the number of its name. The beast represents the acme of human power and the "name" would be that concentrated so as to be intelligible to man.

Ques. Would you say the knowledge of God as He is would fortify us against this?

J.T. That is the point, it is with God we have to do. The elders say, "who is, and who was", but these victors understand and they sing of God as the Lord God Almighty -- Jehovah Elohim Shaddai. They take in the great names of God known to the patriarchs and to Moses, and they say, "righteous and true are thy ways, O King of nations. Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy; for all nations shall come and do homage before thee; for thy righteousnesses have been made manifest". They are dealing with the history of the earth and the nations, they are the Jewish remnant undoubtedly, those who belong to Israel, but they know God. They are not on the same level as the assembly, but they are on a high level; they worship God, and speak of others who will do so: "all nations shall come and do homage before thee". We see in chapter 11 that the twenty-four elders worship God -- it is the completion of the whole matter. The seventh trumpet is the completion of the whole matter; it is really, "The kingdom of the world of our Lord and of his Christ is come" -- not "the kingdoms of this world", as in the Authorised Version.

H.B. Why do they not refer to the prophetic side -- "who is to come"?

J.T. Well, I suppose what they say is enough for the position; Scripture is infinitely accurate. What takes the place of "who is to come" is that He has taken His great power. He who is and who was -- "thou hast taken thy great power and hast reigned". There is no longer anybody to come, He has come, He has taken His great power, and is reigning.

H.B. They have now reached that prophetic period.

J.T. Quite so. It is the completion of things here, and every point reached involves worship or praise.

Ques. Does John in chapter 5 of his first epistle give its present bearing on the saints in regard to his victory over the world?

J.T. Quite so. "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" I think what the brethren might take in is the bearing of prophecy, the prophetic ministry and the concurrent result, namely, the worship of God. The song of Moses, "the bondman of God", comes into the worship of God; his song is included in the services of these victors.

J.M. As a practical application of what is in your mind: if I were connected up with a trade union, would the prophetic ministry come in to set me free therefrom, and, as being set free, would I experience something of God and of the knowledge of Him in this way, and, as gathering that knowledge, would I become a worshipper?

J.T. Yes, you get a harp; no trade unionist has a harp, a harp of God. This is clearly seen in the passage in chapter 15, which we have been considering (verses 2 - 4).

J.M. I would like, then, to ask, would you distinguish between a government provision and a trade union?

J.T. Certainly, government is of God; in principle, it is always good -- "it is God's minister to thee for good". Romans 13:4 -- that is a different matter.

Ques. Do you make any distinction in these unions? You spoke of what was murderous.

J.T. If we understand that one, we will understand the others; it is a question of degree. But we should understand the murderous one first; that is the key to the whole position. Even a trade combination

against trade unionism may be murderous, although not in the sense of open violence; but they have monopolies to take away the lives of other people, to crush them to death (Proverbs 1:19) -- it is the same thing in that sense. But the open disregard of the rights of God and men, backed by violence even to the extent of murder, should weigh first with every christian and forbid him to have any part in such combinations.

BONDMEN OF GOD (4)

Revelation 19:1 - 10; Revelation 22:1 - 9

J.T. These scriptures complete, I believe, the references to bondmen in the book. The subjects are the destruction of the great corruptress of the earth, who is described earlier, particularly in chapter 17, and then the marriage of the Lamb, and then the function of the bondmen in the millennial state of blessing, indeed in the heavenly city -- it is said in chapter 22 that "his servants shall serve him, and they shall see his face; and his name is on their foreheads". Finally, both in chapters 19 and 22, we have the danger noted of servants, or bondmen of the Lord, worshipping others than Himself, that danger always existing; even, as in John's case, the most honoured are exposed to this danger. At the beginning of chapter 19 attention is called to the avenging of the blood of His bondmen, the bondmen of God, at the hand of this corruptress of the earth. In verse 5, "a voice came out of the throne, saying. Praise our God, all ye his bondmen, and ye that fear him, small and great", so that all bondmen are called into this celebration of praise; the occasion of it is negative, but it calls attention to the interest of the bondmen of God in this great deliverance, the destruction of the harlot. We have already spoken of current events in relation to chapter 10, what we may call political or international events. What is contemplated here is current history, history that enters into the assembly period, the present dispensation, and the bondmen of God are assumed to have interest in, and to know, this history, for it has affected the assembly, the service of God, almost throughout the entire dispensation.

Rem. I was wondering if the letters to the seven assemblies contain education for the assembly.

J.T. Yes, the history of the assembly is involved in those letters, in chapters 2 and 3, but the history of the work of God is also involved in them; so that we have the positive side running through. The bondmen would all be regarded as interested. Here we have the end of the history of the great harlot as she is called -- this is final, and hence the remarkable celebration, as if it is a burst of relief from the awful pressure that the spiritual had been under, because of this system.

Ques. Is the history that you refer to now more what might be termed religious history, than political history?

J.T. That is what I was thinking; chapter 10 contemplates more what is political, but as related to the testimony, the nations. This is a religious system, and we may call it a spiritual one, for it is characterised by the presence of spiritual influences, great Babylon is said to have "become the habitation of demons, and a hold of every unclean spirit, and a hold of every unclean and hated bird". So that we have to regard her, not only as the religious organisation, but as a system characterised by evil spiritual power.

E.G. I notice that in chapter 18, the word is to "heaven ... saints and apostles and prophets", but here it is addressed to "his bondmen"; have you any thought as to the difference?

J.T. It is a question of judgment in chapter 18 -- "Rejoice over her, heaven, and ye saints and apostles and prophets; for God has judged your judgment upon her". It would appear that they are regarded as having formed a judgment as to her, and now God is executing it. Chapter 19 is more inclusive; I suppose that verse in chapter 18 is exclusive, that is, it contemplates the highest spiritual intelligence, judgment and discernment. Saints are put first, then apostles, and then prophets; but all are called into

this ascription of praise in verse 5 of chapter 19 -- it is more general -- "Praise our God, all ye his bondmen, and ye that fear him, small and great".

H.B. Would that imply that the bondmen would be characteristically in keeping with the judgments of God upon this system?

J.T. Well, that is what is in mind; but chapter 18: 20 is more specific as to greatness and spirituality, as inclusive of those who were most capable of judging, heaven itself and the saints -- which of course is a characteristic word -- and then the apostles and prophets; they have a judgment of the system -- "your judgment". God is honouring them as executing what they have judged, and I think the verse enters into all our disciplinary meetings -- one would make it practical -- how heaven ratifies the judgments we have reached; if it does not, they are not effective, because our judgments ought to have always a wide bearing, the full bearing of the assembly. The execution of divine judgment now is in the assembly, hence the importance of Matthew 18"If ... he will not listen to the assembly ..." it is authoritative, it is invested with the heavenly prerogative as to discipline and judgment generally.

H.B. Do you mean then that in our judgments in the assembly, the universal position should be kept in view?

J.T. Yes; it is never to be merely local. So the apostle, in directing the discipline at Corinth, introduces his own spirit into the position, saying: "in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ (ye and my spirit being gathered together, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ), him that has so wrought this: to deliver him, I say, being such, to Satan for destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus". The fact that the apostle's spirit is there gathered in view of the discipline, I think, calls attention to the organism in which we

are, and that the bearing of judgment includes the whole assembly, and hence any local judgments or discipline should command the assent of saints generally; it should never be regarded as an independent matter, but one that concerns the whole assembly.

H.L. How does the assembly express itself so as to be refused -- "if also he will not listen to the assembly ..." Matthew 18:17? Would it do to come from the care meeting?

J.T. The assembly never speaks through the care meeting; the care meeting is only preliminary to the assembly. The only authoritative body is the assembly; Scripture regards it as having an authoritative voice. The organism, the "one body", must underlie all these matters. The assembly can speak; all are in it, the underlying organism is the secret of universal assent, universal understanding, too, of what is done.

H.B. If one hears the voice of the assembly at a disciplinary meeting, should it produce such repentance so that we move towards it?

J.T. Just so, and it was so at Corinth; the apostle mentions the great ultimate end, that is, "that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus". The man was a real christian, as we say, his spirit was saved before the day of the Lord Jesus, and that is what we should look for, so that the second letter deals with that point; repentance had taken place, his spirit was right already; it was right enough for them to confirm their love to him. They were in danger of blocking the work of God in the man, but the assembly has prerogative to remit sin, also powers of healing and recovery. They were evidently overlooking this and not leaving themselves open for the operations of God in the way of healing and restoration. These feelings are essential to the discipline, we are to be amenable to the gracious actions

of God in the healing and restoration of a sinner. The Corinthians were slow, but the apostle would not go ahead of them, he would promote in them the feeling of forgiveness and the confirming of their love to him.

In the case of this system of which we are speaking, there is no thought of restoration, there is no hope at all of her. In the individual letters to the assemblies, Thyatira is the one that deals with this system in its incipient stages, it is viewed under the symbol of Jezebel, and the Lord says "she will not repent", and according to chapter 18, the judgment is now being executed. They were unable to execute it themselves, for, from the time of Jezebel, the only hope was withdrawal, separation; but God says, I have power to deal with her and I am doing it now; that is what occasions this great celebration of joy.

Ques. Do I understand you to say that there should be some knowledge amongst us of all that this history entails?

J.T. There should. If we are bondmen of God, if we are in His service, we should surely feel the awful pressure of this. It is a great blot on Christendom, dating back to the third century, and who could be a lover of God without feeling that this is an outburst of relief through what God has done in removing this awful blot on His creation! It was an accumulated judgment, as I understand it -- your judgment -- expressed in the groans of the saints who suffer from this pressure right down these ages.

Rem. So among the things found in her were souls of men.

J.T. Yes -- traffic in them.

H.B. These three mentioned -- saints, apostles, prophets -- are three assembly features as in Ephesians. In order to come into line with that now, would you say there requires to be this judgment expressed in the way of withdrawal?

J.T. That is the idea. Heaven is in the judgment, according to Matthew, what is bound on earth is bound in heaven -- that is how the matter stood. Now heaven is mentioned first, it is in accord with all the judgment the saints, apostles, and prophets had. The accumulation of judgment is remarkable, and now God takes it on to deal with it Himself.

Ques. Would it seem that God allows this system to go on for the education of His bondmen? Then, as they have suffered and received the instruction, He executes the judgment; but He waits on them till they have received the instruction.

J.T. Yes. Other scriptures show that Babylon had "fallen"; there was a certain releasement of the pressure at that time, but only making her worse. There was relief from it in her fall, she lost prestige and power, but she became worse; she became "the habitation of demons, and a hold of every unclean spirit, and a hold of every unclean and hated bird". She became worse, and she has continued in that fallen condition up to the present moment.

Ques. Do you think the fall of Babylon would make room for God to call upon His people to come out of her?

J.T. I think that is how the thing stood historically. Her power became more limited, she lost political power; it was a way for those who feared God -- His people -- to come out of her. The point is that they should not be partakers of her sins -- "Come out of her, my people, that ye have not fellowship in her sins, and that ye do not receive of her plagues". If any of God's people are in her, they will be judged in her -- at least that is the bearing of their position -- as Jonathan was judged with Saul. The apostle was concerned that the Corinthian saints should not be "judged with the world", and it is a very solemn reminder to anyone who is in this system, or its extensions (for there are extensions

of it) that there is a danger of their being judged with her; so the word is, "Come out of her, my people".

A.R. How does that fit in with what is said to Thyatira, "But to you I say, the rest who are in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I do not cast upon you any other burden; but what ye have hold fast till I shall come"? They evidently are owned, although remaining in the system.

J.T. I think that historically the recognition of a remnant would synchronise with the divine call to come out of her. The letter does not direct the saints to leave anything, they are taken account of just as they are in each assembly, the idea of formal separation is not stated in the letters. Each assembly is taken account of in its general public position and what is of God in it is owned, but we can discern that Philadelphia could not exist save on the principle of separation, nor could a remnant in Thyatira really subsist save on that principle.

Ques. Do you suggest that what you speak of is consequent on the letter to Thyatira -- things have developed?

J.T. I think it would be consequent on the ministry that would flow out of the letter to Thyatira. There was a ministry right down, opening up each letter and making application. "He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies". What the Spirit would say in any given period would be an amplification of what Christ's letter governing it contained.

Ques. Why is it said she corrupted the earth (chapter 19: 2)?

J.T. I suppose it is the political state of things, speaking practically. Europe and her out-goings, that being the area of Jezebel's machinations. Who

has not discerned that the whole ordered condition of things has been corrupted by her? In verse 5 of chapter 19 certain ones are called upon to praise God: "all ye his bondmen, and ye that fear him, small and great", as if they would be brought into the praise. Verse 20 of the previous chapter is more limited, but God would bring all His people into the result; even if we have not a true judgment about her, God will call us into the result. It is often seen in a local meeting, that most do not really enter into things, the discernment or judgment of evil, but when it is manifest, and the judgment is executed, then they can come into it and the results of it -- the position that flows from it, the gain to God, for every disciplinary action ought to yield to God. The discipline in itself yields to God.

F.S. Should we have these feelings in eating the Lord's supper, in relation to those held in bondage, that they should worship the Father, that we should feel and be concerned as to those who are missing?

J.T. That is a good suggestion, for the Lord feels their absence. He would say, Where are they? And those who love God know where many are, who are not walking in the truth, they have a judgment as to them. 2 Timothy says, "The Lord knows those that are his". Well, we are with Him in that. But then, Where are they? The Lord asks, "Where are the nine?" Many of them, alas! are in Babylon.

Ques. Would the apostle's word in Ephesians 3 help us on that line, he says, "that ye may be fully able to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height"? Would it encourage us on the line of seeking to have "all the saints" before us on such occasions when we enjoy so much?

J.T. That is right. As lovers of God we love the brethren, and hence feel their absence. 2 Timothy says the Lord knows them, and I think He would

remind us as to where they are -- Where are the nine? It is very sorrowful to think of them in the evil system referred to in our scripture.

F.I. Does Thyatira refer to only what we might call the communicants in the church of Rome, or does it view the whole of the profession positionally connected with Thyatira? Is not the public position of the church today Thyatira?

J.T. I think so. It is the fourth assembly addressed, and contemplates the public body characteristically, and which goes on to the end. The other three continuing represent conditions: Sardis, the outcome of the movement called the Reformation; Philadelphia, the result, of a subsequent movement of the Spirit of God; and Laodicea, the result -- in pride and worldliness -- of the human mind stimulated by the activity of the Spirit in the revival of the truth, as seen in the Philadelphian result. It would be Protestantism as to what it has come to. Thyatira has to be apprehended by itself, but it represents the public body right through; and the whole public body is viewed in the destruction of Babylon, because all the religious, organisations have become, or will become, affiliated with it in one way or another.

Ques. Would the last three be included in that expression, "the rest who are in Thyatira"?

J.T. That is an expression you only find there; it is tantamount to the word "remnant", that is, what remains for God or what the Lord had been describing. Thyatira is one of the seven and owned as an assembly, but suffering this woman, this corruptress. "The rest" are there, they are not viewed as detached from it, they are there; they are just viewed as a remnant with the promise of the millennium. That is the position, Philadelphia is the carrying forward of that thought, and the development of it in the light of the assembly.

H.L. Does the great sheet let down from heaven cover the present situation you are referring to? The unclean birds are seen later on in chapter 19.

J.T. The sheet that came down from heaven alludes to what God has taken on, viewed in its historical capacity, but as cleansed and thus linked on with what God is doing.

H.L. I was thinking of the world in reconciliation, and the unclean birds are now seen in chapter 18 as only unclean.

J.T. Well, but those in the sheet came down from heaven; Peter says they are unclean, but heaven says they were cleansed. What was in the sheet represented the then current work of God among the nations.

H.L. I thought that sheet referred to all men and the world in reconciliation.

J.T. But the world's reconciliation, seen in Romans 11, does not go so far as cleansing, it is simply a question of the provisional attitude of God towards the world.

H.B. What is under consideration is the responsible side as to the general profession.

J.T. Yes, it is what the public system has become. Although the mind is directed to Rome, it really takes in all the public systems.

H.B. The extensions you spoke of would include all the clerical systems.

J.T. Exactly. All these public systems, that have taken on things that belong to Rome, are not clear in the matter; what the Lord exposes and condemns, clericalism, priest-craft linked with worldliness, seen in all current religious organisations, mark Rome; indeed generally they have come out of Rome. Hence all will ultimately be included in Babylon and judged in her.

Rem. It says, "as many as have not this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they

say, I do not cast upon you any other burden; but what ye have hold fast till I shall come". I wondered whether a certain measure of separation would not be implied on their part in those words, "as many as have not this doctrine ..."

J.T. It would, as to personal state, but not as to public position, I think.

E.G. Is not "the overcomer" a state further than "the rest"? It goes on to the overcomer in that next verse.

J.T. Yes, but the promise to him would indicate the measure of his overcoming; he is not an overcomer like the one in Philadelphia; he shepherds the nations with a rod of iron; that is what Jezebel was doing in her corrupt way, undertaking to rule the nations. The promises to the overcomer in Philadelphia are very far in advance of that.

What we are speaking of now is the idea of a judgment about things, and whether the bondmen of God, those who serve, are really conversant with this terrible thing and have a judgment about it; if we have not, we can scarcely serve the saints. Paul says, "ye and my spirit being gathered together", that is, I do not want to be outside what is being done in the assembly in the way of discipline. Underlying all that is the idea of the body, the organism, the power of feeling -- what exists universally.

L.D.M. In Ezekiel 9:4, Jehovah said to the man clothed with linen, with the writer's ink-horn by his side, "Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that are done in the midst thereof".

J.T. "All the abominations" -- that is instructive, the power of feeling things, and that nothing is left out. That corresponds with what we are speaking of, how it is contemplated that we have a judgment

about things, that we have a judgment about this terrible thing and all its outgoings; God will link them all on in the final judgment.

Ques. Does chapter 18: 2 give you the idea of what is governmental? It speaks of it as the hold of every unclean spirit and every unclean and hated bird. J.N.D. has a note that this means a prison where they are confined.

J.T. I have no doubt it is governmental, but it is a means the system has of silencing any elements regarded as contrary to it.

Rem. I was thinking also of the door being opened; that is for the overcomer, not for the unclean bird. God in His governmental dealing with the system has in it a hold for the unclean bird.

J.T. Yes. It silences all conscience; it has a means of repression, but then it is really governmental, that is, all these evil things are confined there.

W.B. As we judge the spirit of Babylon as seen in Psalm 137, do we have a corresponding appreciation of what the assembly is for God -- "Jerusalem above my chief joy". The psalmist refers to sitting down by the rivers of Babylon; then he goes on, "Daughter of Babylon, who art to be laid waste, happy he that rendereth unto thee that which thou hast meted out to us. Happy he that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the rock".

J.T. This is a good illustration of a true judgment -- you mean. That is what God looks for. There was a paper written nearly a hundred years ago entitled, The Notion of a Clergyman, Dispensationally the sin against the Holy Ghost -- a very remarkable production that really cut at the root of all this. God would have us stand clear of it, for any one who does not is included in the judgment that is expressed here -- "Come out of her, my people, that

ye have not fellowship in her sins". One is not clear of the matter if he is there.

H.B. Then if one desires to be a bondman or a bondmaid, this is the first essential.

J.T. It is; you get a harp, as we were saying. The point is that the political system of things is signified by a little book, and the thought was, "The kingdom of the world of our Lord and of his Christ is come", and then there is the celebration. Now we are occupied with the religious system and the result of its overthrow, so that it is a question of having a judgment, and, as having a judgment, we can sing -- we come into the realm of singing. You get no such celebration throughout the book as in this chapter 19; the first is negative, that is, those who have a judgment of Babylon and rejoice in its destruction; then those who rejoice in the marriage of the Lamb -- "the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife ..." -- she is true to Christ in all this. Now the celebration continues; it is in two parts, the first is because of what is negative, the destruction of Babylon, and the second stands in relation to the true wife of Christ and the marriage of the Lamb to her.

W.H. What is the force of the word "Hallelujah"?

J.T. It is a word brought down from the Old Testament; it denotes the praise of Jah, and I believe, a keen spiritual insight into the Deity as revealed. In the first section we have it, and then "a second time they said, Hallelujah"; and then again the elders and living creatures say, "Amen, Hallelujah". It is God who is before them, they are employing Old Testament language, but it is a word that includes the Deity, I believe, and keen insight into it. The Psalms, of course, give us the word, and, as brought into christianity here, we are entitled to use it, and we do use and should use it. Then the twenty-four elders -- this is the last mention

of them -- and the four living creatures fell down and did homage to God. They refer to the assembly in two ways -- those who have experience with God, and those who, as creatures, are sympathetic with God, and they say, "Amen, Hallelujah". So we have Hallelujah three times in those four verses, and then a voice came out of the throne saying, "Praise our God, all ye his bondmen, and ye that fear him, small and great". But the Hallelujahs are confirmed in the praise of the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures; the highest intelligences and the most sympathetic join in this celebration, showing what a thing it was, what faith understood, and what is within the capacity of spiritual understanding; and then there is the outburst of praise and worship in the sense of relief.

E.G. After the first celebration it says, "her smoke goes up to the ages of ages".

J.T. That would mean that the judgment is eternal.

W.A. Do you think John had this in mind when he said, "Herein has love been perfected with, us that we may have boldness in the day of judgment, that even as he is, we also are in this world"?

J.T. Just so; that shows how these elders and living creatures exist and have their places, they are in that light -- "as he is". It is in that light we can judge things, we have a true standard.

The only other thing we can say now is as to the bondman's place in the heavenly city. You have here, "his servants shall serve him" -- the word for "servants" here also is "bondmen" -- it refers to the public service of God, that is, you might say, the religious side. There are those who serve in the assembly carrying on the service that is due to God, the bondmen do that and they have the utmost liberty there -- "they shall see his face", so the thought of bondmen is carried on to the heavenly

city. Then the danger is again seen of bondmen worshipping intermediaries, great servants of God. John, we are told, "fell down to do homage before the feet of the angel who shewed me these things. And he says to me, See thou do it not. I am thy fellow-bondman, and the fellow-bondman of thy brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Do homage to God" -- a very good word to finish with. The angel is saying, I am just one of the bondmen; he takes that place, as Peter did -- "I myself also am a man", he said to Cornelius; whereas his professed successor in Rome looks for worship now, he looks for the very thing that John would render and which the angel sternly forbids. The Lord's people are sometimes in danger of that, of paying unseemly attention to those whom God may use.

Rem. You are not suggesting that distinguished servants should not be honoured and listened to in their service. I was thinking that sometimes the natural mind in us takes an independent form in disregarding servants and what the Lord is obviously giving through them.

J.T. It is very important to add that.

MAKING WAY FOR GOD

Genesis 15:8 - 11, 17, 18; Matthew 3:1 - 3, 11 - 17; Revelation 3:20

The object of this address is that we might be instructed as to the divine way, how each may make way for God: first, in regard to things that relate to himself, his own blessing; then as to public testimony, how, as engaged in that, one may make a way for God; and finally, how a believer may make way for a divine visitation and the subsequent entertainment of a divine Person, and then an entertainment of him by a divine Person; in other words, how we may make a way for the Lord so as to entertain Him, and that He, as a consequence may, as He loves to do, entertain a christian, as the scripture read in Revelation says, "I will .., sup with him, and he with me".

The first part of my subject, as I intimated, is what relates to the individual believer's blessing, how he may be established in the mind of God for him. So I selected Abraham, who is the characteristic believer, the father of all believers. He was concerned as to knowing how the promise of God should be fulfilled to him. There are many who are content with much less, very much less, than what is intimated in divine promise. Divine promise is the outcome, as we perhaps know, of divine purpose; that is, God can accord a promise as having purposed. His promise obviously will not go beyond the limits of His purpose, but it may extend to the fulness of His purpose for us, and His purpose for us is very great, I need not say; it is commensurate with Himself as having come out in Christ, so that "whom he has foreknown, he has also predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son" -- He calls him and justifies him and glorifies him. Thus the purpose

of God, as I said, is commensurate, in keeping with Himself; it is worthy of God, it becomes Him.

But then there are promises; these are all on the line of assurance; the promise and the oath (Hebrews 6:18), were two immutable things in which it was impossible for God to lie. Where you have these promises and oaths and covenants, the assurance of the believer is in mind, and many need establishing. In making His promises, God undertakes to act for their fulfilment. It is impossible for God to lie, we are told, that is, we know what He is in a general way, but the promise and the oath are to afford us certainty, to establish us. Then He has to begin to work, and so you have in this chapter, for the first time, the expression, "the word of God". The chapter involves a vision, and I suppose if God speaks on the principle of vision to us. He abstracts us from what would be hindering to us in taking in the vision, and to Him in presenting what He has in mind in the vision. We are not accustomed to vision now, but Scripture speaks much of it. God speaks to man, we are told, "in a vision of the night". He takes account of us and knows how ordinary things interfere as He is seeking to commune with us, and so He abstracts us in His own way so as to have scope for what He has in mind to make known.

This chapter, therefore, is remarkable, God is taking on Abraham to assure him that henceforth he is to be an established believer, established not only in the knowledge of God, but in the certain knowledge that God cannot lie. He was to be assured for a long time to come, too, four hundred and fifty years -- with us it is much longer, I need not say; I mean the fulfilment of the promise took that number of years. Abraham in his lifetime would always revert to this with comfort, and it is important that each of us should have some little transaction with God of this sort, beginning with the idea of His

word, for His word penetrates, as we are told, it is "living and operative, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and penetrating to the division of soul and spirit, both of joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart", Hebrews 4:12. That is to say, there is the searching of the being; he is, in every chamber of his heart, exposed to himself: distinction is made in his soul between thoughts and intents, so that all selfishness is exposed and God would say, It is due to you; it is not only due to Me, but it is due to you that it should be so. You will labour under great illusion if it is not so, if you are reserving any dark crevices in your heart, in conversing with Me, entering into any, engagement with Me, or I with you.

Abraham says, "how shall I know ... ?" And God said to him, "Take me a heifer of three years old, and a she-goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtle-dove, and a young pigeon". This is Abraham's matter, it arose from Abraham's wish to know, to be assured -- hence, in this sense, it is Abraham's matter. It is for him to act now so as to make way for God; for God, in the fulfilment of His promises to us, does not only work all round us; He does work around us, but He has in mind, in working thus, to work in us, to get in. We are skilled in keeping Him out; able, perhaps, to tell others how God will enter into their souls for blessing, able to preach the gospel, and yet we have never made a way for Him into ourselves, and He is waiting to get in. He is saying to us, Unless I do, unless you make a way for Me, there is no possible confirmation for you of what I promised you; it is an inward matter, do not keep Me out. There are things that are impossible in this sense, morally speaking: God says, I cannot work in you unless you let Me in. And, in selecting female creatures, a heifer and a she-goat He would intimate that He is

looking for a certain result here; they denote, in type, responsive affection. The Lord knows what you are capable of, but it is finding its outlet in other directions than towards God. The woman of Samaria, as we have often remarked, was a woman of great affection, and she found an outlet, a lawless outlet. In truth, any letting out of our affections exclusive of what is Godward, is indeed lawless, for we are to love Him with all our heart and all our strength.

So He prescribes three-year-old creatures. Abraham would have to find them, and in finding them among his cattle -- he had large flocks and herds -- he would no doubt be wondering what it all meant. Well, God intends to set us thinking when He purposes to do something for us, because He wants to work in us. He works for us outside of ourselves, but He wants to work in us, and He cannot really succeed in His purposes of love for us unless He is allowed to work in us. So there are these two female creatures, and then a ram of three years old, which involves a progenitive idea, that there is to be some result for God as an outcome of this. And then the birds -- they are not to be divided, that is, you can retain whole thoughts of yourself, but in a little way, in this process, the smaller the better; the whole thought must stand in all this operation.

So it is now what Abraham will do; God did not tell him what to do with them, but they were for God; it became God that these sacrifices should be provided, and we may be sure that Abraham was particular as to the history of each creature, he would know its age. But now, having slain the creatures, he divides them, as you will observe. It says "he took all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid the half of each opposite its fellow; but the birds he did not divide", that is, the pieces of the larger creatures were matched. There was to be no severing of the pieces in the passover lamb, the whole

thought went through, it is food for collective position and service. But this is earlier than the passover, this is how an individual is to know, and there must be the separation of the pieces, and they are identifiable, they belong to each other. Well now, as in this process, if we are having to say to God, we may be sure that Satan is not far away. In one's holiest moments, one is humbled to be made sensible of the nearness of the enemy, and the facilities he has to act on us. In the most holy moments that we, as christians, may experience we may find this. It is very humbling, and tends to make us small, but still, the whole idea is in the birds; do not lose the sense of that, the smaller one is the better, in these circumstances.

The birds of prey came down. There are two sets of birds here, that is, those that Abraham provided, according to verse 9, a turtle-dove and young pigeon -- symbolic of good; but then there are other birds, birds of prey, as you will observe. "The birds of prey came down on the carcases; and Abram scared them away". These are other birds. We must have discernment in reading Scripture; cutting in a straight line the word of truth, not simply the Scripture, but the word of truth, for truth is interwoven, very intricately at times, in what is presented to us. Abraham sees these fowls that came down -- what is the intent? To spoil all that he was doing. I urge young people to listen to what I am saying, for, unless you come into this sort of experience in some sense, you will never he confirmed, you will never be settled or assured in divine love's provision for you. You have to learn to scare (the word "scare" is in the New Translation) them away; do not entertain them. That is the difficulty that, in your holiest, most sincere moments, and the moments in which God is set to help you, the enemy is there. Even in a meeting like this, Satan comes, as we have often

said, to rob souls that are listening, of what is being presented. So Abraham scares them away; God did not tell him to do it, but he did it; nor did God tell him what to do with the creatures, what he did was the outcome of intelligence.

Now, I have said all that as part of what is in mind, that is, making a way for God. If these creatures He has directed us to bring, or to provide, are damaged by the devil or his emissaries, God is interfered with. So the epistle to the Romans teaches us how we are to have control of our minds; it is one of the greatest acquirements of the christian initially, to learn how to control his mind. "I myself"; not simply "I", but "I myself with the mind serve God's law". The delivered christian seen in Romans 7 has complete control so that the mind becomes servile and held for one use, namely, God's law. That is not the ten words simply, but God's law, whatever it be specifically. So, if the enemy comes -- and he does come -- and young people are hampered with him and wonder how it is, it is because we do not learn how to control our minds and use them according to their power as rightly controlled. Abraham scares the birds away, they are foreign, they are antagonistic. That being so, "it came to pass when the sun had gone down, and it was dark, that behold, there was a smoking furnace, and a flame of fire which passed between those pieces" -- that is the power of God. Abraham made the way for it in scaring away the enemy; so God acts to confirm Abraham, and the whole territory from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, is secured to the believer, to Abraham and to his seed. How restful he would be after that! He would be not only a believer, but a confirmed believer. "He that establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, is God". That is what He is aiming at with every one of us. The young

christians at Corinth could see how established Paul was; no storm could overturn him, he was established, but he says, "God who establishes us with you ..." That is, he was established with the Corinthians. It is peculiarly strengthening to be told that I am sharing a special blessing with one far ahead of me and distinguished in every way in the things of God.

Well, I now go on to John the baptist. From the believer -- for Abraham is a characteristic believer now, confirmed in the purposes of God -- I pass on to the minister, to speak of how, in our public service, we make a way for God. Christendom as it is has blocked the divine way; God cannot move out to the regions beyond now. I use the word 'cannot' in a moral sense, there are things God cannot do in that sense consistently with Himself. Paul says, "I, from Jerusalem, and in a circuit round to Illyricum, have fully preached the glad tidings of the Christ" (Romans 15:19); in doing that he made a divine way; he provided, not only a way for man, the divine way for us, "the way everlasting", but he provided a way for God. In the Acts, "the way" for the christian implies the fellowship, but then there is a way for God, so that God can go from city to city, town to town, and village to village, as indicated in the addresses to assemblies in Asia (Revelation 2 and 3). John the baptist is, I think, the great example for us in this respect; it is he that is selected by God for this service peculiarly, so that it says, in the passage from which I read in Matthew, "in those days comes John the baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, and saying, Repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn nigh. For this is he who has been spoken of through Esaias the prophet, saying, Voice of him that crieth in the wilderness: prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight his paths". He is making a way for the Lord in preaching repentance, but I

am not going into the details at all, there is no time for this; I would like more particularly to call attention to John himself, that is, the kind of man he was as a public minister.

Luke tells us that the word of God came to him, that marks his ministry: as the word of God came to Abraham, so it did to John. It is a question of the mind of God, and what one would specially desire is to convey briefly an impression of John the baptist. I have read from Matthew, rather than any other of the gospels or from the Acts, because of the point the Lord makes, in speaking to John, about righteousness. John the evangelist presents John the baptist in the most attractive way, I think, of any of the evangelists, and that is because he so stresses John's admiration of Christ, the great estimate he had of Christ. I believe (if one may be allowed to speak familiarly of such a matter) that, if heaven were to catechise a prospective minister, what would be stressed would be, the minister's estimate of Christ. How do you regard Him? What is He in relation to yourself? Do you think yourself at all comparable with Him? Now I think John the evangelist is like that in regard to John the baptist; he shows how he measured up with the divine requirement. He is presented, as I said, as a sort of ideal for all ministers of Christ.

So, almost as soon as the Lord is seen here as Man in John's narrative, we have John the baptist quoted as saying that He was preferred before him. He is urgent and energetic; he says, I want to say at once about that Man. He is preferred before me -- that surely is a fine thing to start with. No one can be of any service really in the ministry of Christ, save he learns to be a second; and John puts his word in at once and says, He is preferred before me. That matter is settled; great as I am, John says, great as other people think I am, that Man is preferred

before me, and for a good reason -- He was before me. It is no question yet of the ability of Christ in testimony, it is a question of the Person of Christ, who He is; I must be clear as to that, and that is the point John makes. Jerusalem sent word to him and said, in effect, We are giving you a place in Jerusalem; your fame has reached us and we recognise you. Men will do that if you have gift; if you have ability it will be recognised, men will recognise you so that they may be enhanced. Jerusalem would be greater as honouring such a man as John; it would distinguish him by a title, whatever was needed. But John would honour Another, not himself: he says, "In the midst of you stands ... he who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to unloose". Do not think of me, think of the Man who stands in the midst of you; that is the minister making a way for Christ. I will not make a way for Him, if He is not great in my esteem; such is our make-up, that we are so self-centred naturally; but if we are to make a way for Christ, He must be everything. He is before us; He is preferred before us too. John the evangelist does not speak so much of John's preaching as the others do, he stresses John's remarks expressing his great appreciation of Christ. How he loves to speak of Christ, how superior He is! He will make a way for Him; and so here in Matthew he says, "Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight his paths". And then, "I indeed baptise you with water to repentance, but he that comes after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not fit to bear; he shall baptise you with the Holy Spirit and fire; whose winnowing fan is in his hand, and he shall thoroughly purge his threshing-floor, and shall gather his wheat into the garner, but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable".

Now, that is all perfect, and I have, as I might say,

a feeling of regret in having to point out something that you do not get in John's gospel: that the Baptist would dissuade the Lord from something that the path He had entered upon required. Jesus comes to him; and it is when Jesus presents Himself to me that I am tested. I can talk of Him to others, but when I am face to face with the Lord, and He would stress His humility, I may shrink from the full truth -- I may even protest against it. In ministry as the Spirit of God may empower a brother to bring out the humility of Christ, let us not be afraid of it, it is part of the testimony. What wonderful compression marked Jesus! Think of Him saying -- and I refer to it with the deepest reverence -- "I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and the despised of the people", Psalm 22:6. How could He say that? Is it not part of His testimony? If one refuses it, he is not equal to this, not equal to the presence of Jesus. What wonderful compression, what wonderful sense of reduction comes before us in the incarnation, as we hear Him speak in that way! John the baptist is not just ready for that, he says, "I have need to be baptised of thee; and comest thou to me?" His words seemed to say that he knew better than the Lord! Let none of us ever be in that position. Prohibitionists, for instance, assume to know better than the Lord, though they do not say this in words. In many other instances, people who think they are pious, are really assuming to know better than the Lord. That will not do; nor will any of us be used or be useful unless we submit to the truth. Many have legal thoughts, thoughts that hinder us going in for the full truth.

"Then comes Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptised of him; but John urgently forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptised of thee; and comest thou to me?" That was true, but then the Lord was doing the will of God, which

required that He took this lowly place, and that John should serve Him in it. John was there expressly to make a way for Him; but without this service the divine way would have been blocked. The Lord was going on to a beautiful scene in this section, to the opening of heaven and the Father's voice owning Him from there -- I cannot stop to speak of it, but it is most affecting; but John, for the moment, was not making way for it, by introducing his own insignificance; without doubt his feelings as to himself were true, but their introduction at this juncture was contrary to his commission as the forerunner of Christ. Let us not be afraid of humility in anyone; none of us has a lot of it. Wherever you see it, let it work, let humility have its full way. The Lord was the embodiment of it. "Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me", He said, "for I am meek and lowly in heart". Jesus answered John: "Suffer it now; for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness". "Suffer it now, ..." -- John in acceding is brought into full accord with his mission as Jehovah's messenger to prepare His way, so that all flesh should see His glory. Think of the Lord having to say to me, Suffer Me to do this! Why should He? Would it not raise the question, whether I am ready to submit? He is the Lord of glory, and should I not submit unreservedly as He comes to me in this way?

It is very suggestive that, when the Lord spoke about righteousness, John the baptist submitted. May we not be touched with the importance of righteousness in this matter? -- and not one righteousness, but all righteousness. The way of God requires the fulfilment of all righteousness; and not merely that Jesus should do it, but that John should do it. He said, "Suffer it now; for thus is becometh us to fulfil all righteousness". And John suffers Him, thank God! He is now in the full dignity of his mission. Think of the honour of baptising the Lord Jesus!

He came in that way in love identifying Himself with the remnant of Israel, not indeed that He needed to be baptised -- surely not. He is the great Baptiser Himself, He baptises with the Holy Spirit -- but the way of God required this lowly attitude of Jesus, and John suffered Him, and the glory honoured Jesus at that point. The way of God has brought in the full light of the divine glory, of heaven opened. John was never more consciously in it, I am sure, than he was at that moment. He says elsewhere, "I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God". He had made a way for Him. How great a thing it is to make a way for Jesus, whether in myself or publicly in my ministry; so that heaven declares its pleasure in Him, and I am in all that light and blessedness!

Then finally, in the Revelation, the simple thought in mind, as I said, is to make a way for the Lord to come to any of us. He knocks: "Behold, I stand at the door and am knocking". Speaking simply, you might open the door because of His knocking; but the point is, "if any one hear my voice and open the door, I will come in unto him and sup with him, and he with me". It is contingent, not on the noise made by the knocking, but on His voice, it is His voice, that is, you know who is knocking. We may hear the knock and not Him that did it; knocking may be some severe thing that happens. There is no voice in a knock, but it is "my voice", the Lord says, it is His voice heard accompanying the knock. "If any one hear my voice and open the door, I will come in unto him and sup with him, and he with me". Now some of us may never have had any experience like this, perhaps have not thought of it. We have had severe things happen in our circumstances, business losses, and what not -- knocking is there; but then it is the Lord's voice in the knocking, or with it, that is, it is Himself.

A parallel passage to this is in the Canticles, the Lord is out in the night; it does not say He is suffering anything outside in Laodicea. He presents Himself in His greatness to Laodicea, One who can give counsel, gold, eye-salve. He can provide everything that the Christian needs -- or even what the whole profession needs. So that it is not Christ as in need outside, as suffering outside; here, He has resources. It is not that in the Canticles, it is One whose locks are wet with the dew of night, He is exposed and He comes and knocks at the beloved's door, and she is in bed, and she is too lazy to open; she misses Him; but here He says, "if any one hear my voice and open the door, I will come in unto him and sup with him, and he with me". Is there anyone here whose heart is too hard to take this in, the Lord's appeal! He says, I will sup with you. If you are able to discern My voice, and you open to Me, I will come in and I will sup with you. But then He says, You will sup with Me. Supping with Him is Philadelphia, supping with Him is part with Him. And the Lord is appealing to someone here, maybe to all of us, as to opening and making a way for the Lord to come in, as hearing His voice. It is a characteristic of a sheep of Christ to hear His voice. Hearing His voice, you open to Him, that is, you are moved by His voice.

The feminine speaker in Canticles says, "it is the voice of my beloved"; well, it was, but still she did not open, and He left, and she suffered loss. Now, dear brethren, the closing word is, Let us not be in that plight. Knocking is going on, but are we hearing His voice, the voice of Him who knocks? Let us hear His voice, His own accents; it is the Lord, let Him come in; as He comes in, He sups with you. But He further says, "and he with me" -- and that part would involve the blessedness of assembly privilege.

UNLESS I WASH THEE

John 12:1 - 3; John 13:1 - 20

J.T. What is in view initially is to call attention to the fact that the Lord moves, according to this gospel, independently of external religious observances, feasts, days and so on, as if He had done with everything in the world into which He had come, and was in spirit in another world, and another order of things. So that we have, in these two scriptures, first, "six days before the Passover", a definite number of days; and then, in chapter 13, "before the feast of the Passover". As accustomed to an annual occasion of this kind according to a great religious date, we are apt to be affected as religionists are affected, by what is accepted generally; and in these days the Lord would draw us out of it all, even the religious side of the world.

The synoptical gospels take the opposite view, they record the Lord as taking part in the Passover, preparing for it. Even in regard to His personal service, there is a difference; in John. He does not wait for John the baptist to be removed. John presents Jesus as serving before, whereas in the other gospels John the baptist is cast into prison before Jesus takes on His work. So that it is "in season and out of season" in John, and particularly in view of the last days, when the so-called christian religion has taken on so definitely the character of the world, apostasy too, the tide running very strong.

The Lord would have us outside, and apart with Him, and would show us how it can be, that is, by Himself washing our feet, not simply that we should in our own view be clean for such an occasion, but "Unless I wash thee ..." -- that is, He must do it. The first instance in which He came to Bethany six days before the Passover is evidently to bring out

what was there, that they were ready for a great occasion, not a merely religious occasion, not an occasion recognised by the world, but one in view of His coming -- they were ready for that, they were not taken unawares. He would have in mind to bring out what was there and to add to it. The first scripture is sequential, as we have noticed, the idea of sequence is much stressed. It begins "therefore". It alludes to what was in the Lord's mind -- that He would bring out what was there as the result of His earlier services.

H.C. Is the outlook of the religious people governed by the question of observance, as in the religious calendar, in verse 56 of chapter 11? They say, "What do ye think? that he will not come to the feast?"

J.T. Yes; "many went up to Jerusalem out of the country before the Passover, that they might purify themselves. They sought therefore Jesus, and said among themselves, standing in the temple, What do ye think? that he will not come to the feast?" They knew nothing of this occasion at Bethany. They had the idea of purifying themselves; they were only questioning about the Lord, regarded as a public Person, they had no light in their souls about Him. Six days is a measured time before the feast. It would give opportunity to bring out what was there, and what was there was remarkable, especially in what Mary had, that is, she was preparing; it is not presented that she expected Him, but there was readiness to take advantage of an opportunity. We also are to be ready, not simply for a meeting like this, but to be always ready. We never can say when opportunities will come to us, so that the point is to be ready. When the Lord was brought into the temple, according to Luke, Simeon was ready and so was Anna. We have around us the idea of 'Lent', which is a preparatory thought,

but Mary was always ready; even when the Lord visited the house at the outset, according to Luke, she was ready, that is, she was prepared for what was then needed -- an open ear to listen to Jesus.

Ques. Are you connecting chapter 12 with the thought of the place Bethany, or the household?

J.T. I think the place at first -- He "came to Bethany, where was the dead man Lazarus". In the previous chapter it says, "there was a certain man sick, Lazarus of Bethany, of the village of Mary and Martha her sister. It was the Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick". Chapter 11 gives us the importance of the place, Lazarus was characteristically of it as a man. It was the village of Mary and Martha, which makes it more characteristically affected by them; and then we are told who the Mary was, that is, alluding to what happened on this great occasion, which was in the house, so that this visit has in mind where the dead man Lazarus was, that is, the man who had been dead, but "whom Jesus raised from among the dead". So it would appear as if Lazarus is in mind, but the house would be a great thought, for it was the house -- not the place -- that was filled with the odour of the ointment.

Ques. Is it that persons and conditions like this would attract the Lord to come there?

J.T. I think that is the thought, carried through to chapter 20 -- "the doors shut where the disciples were". But here particularly "the dead man Lazarus", who had gone through this extraordinary experience, a person of that kind -- 'where the dead Lazarus was', as it is literally -- and yet he is very much alive, but he is alive by Christ's power; that is the kind of man. He is not a religious man; I mean he does not represent accredited religion at all, he is a dead man as to all that, but he is very

much alive in relation to another order of things, made alive by Christ -- "whom Jesus raised from among the dead"; hence the occasion is for Jesus -- the outcome of the result of His work.

Rem. Such a man would be very serviceable to the Lord in view of what He had before Him -- going to the Father.

J.T. Quite so. Take this great result; whilst it may be regarded as the Jewish remnant, the very best result, you might say, seen as a household, it is about to be absorbed in something greater, I mean it is carried forward into chapter 13 into the personnel of the assembly.

Rem. In chapter 13 it is what He has, His own, and the washing is stressed, but in chapter 12 it is one raised from the dead. The apostle said, "So that, my brethren, ye also have been made dead to the law by the body of the Christ, to be to another, who has been raised up from among the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God", Romans 7:4.

J.T. I think that enters into this. It is a question, therefore, of how the truth of Romans is taken on by us, but this passage goes further than Romans. Romans does not give us resurrection with Christ; we have to go to Colossians for risen persons -- "raised with him through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead". These chapters in John are constructive, the twelfth runs into the thirteenth. The twelfth is the terminus of the line of truth beginning with chapter 9, but then it is not left to stand by itself, for the Jewish remnant is carried over into the assembly, and what comes out in chapter 12 is the new order of humanity conveyed in the Lord saying, "Except the grain of wheat falling into the ground die, it abides alone; but if it die, it bears much fruit". That intervenes, and chapter 13 involves it, that we are now in the presence of a heavenly order of things. Resurrection

is essential to it, but there is more in the humanity than is involved in the Lord's remark as to "much fruit". The doctrine of it is in Hebrews 2; it became God in bringing many sons to glory, to make the Leader of their salvation perfect through sufferings. So that "both he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one; for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren". That is the full thought of what we get here, but chapter 13 is to bring us into it, that we might have part with Christ in it.

W.H. Does chapter 12 suggest that the family at Bethany had gained from the exercise of death and resurrection? They evidently had something -- they made Him a supper, in view of passing on to what you referred to. It says, "There therefore they made him a supper, and Martha served, but Lazarus was one of those at table with him. Mary therefore, having taken a pound of ointment of pure nard of great price ..."

J.T. There was wealth there, such as was needed. So the first thought is the Lord coming to the place, in view of Lazarus; and the second is, they had the means of making Him a supper, and it was mutual -- they did it.

Ques. What would answer today to the thought of making Him a supper?

J.T. One can understand it is a Jewish setting; making a supper here for Christ is initially a Jewish thought, I think. He makes us a supper. He has instituted a supper for us, which implies that there is really no place for Him in the world, and that He is absent. As yet there was some place at Bethany, for He went out of Jerusalem at one time to Bethany and spent the night there; I suppose it is characteristic of the Jewish remnant that they will make something for Him. His supper for us would mean there is no place for Him here. His death is in it; it affords an opportunity for us to go out of the world, so after

it they go to the mount of Olives. It is a means of exit out of the world, but an authorised one; it is in accord with the Lord's departure which He should accomplish at Jerusalem; He has thus made a way out for us, that is involved in His supper. If applied today, the supper at Bethany would be a question of what there may be in any place; what have you here to eat? He said later. Here they had what was requisite for a supper, such as was suitable for Christ, a meal for the expression of love.

Ques. You referred to perfection. I was wondering if you had in mind Hebrews 6 -- "Leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ let us go on unto perfection". They made Him a supper here; had they reached a stage of perfection before they made the supper?

J.T. I think they had, I believe it is the finished result of a certain ministry. Colossians has the same thing in mind, to present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. The Colossians were not that, they had not gone on to the full result of the light they had -- here they did. Here it is not Christ among the gentiles, Christ in you (Colossians 1:27); it is Christ among the Jewish remnant, but the Jewish remnant seen as having acquired wealth, not from the ministry of Moses and the prophets, but the Lord's personal ministry; it is final so far. It is a Jewish setting, not yet the assembly, but ultimately merging in it. "He led them out as far as Bethany" corresponds.

H.B. "Mary therefore, having taken a pound of ointment of pure nard of great price". Is that a further thought?

J.T. Yes. The facts given are progressive. We reach the highest point contemplated in the section, that is what is alluded to, as if the full thought was reached, beginning with chapter 9. That is a great inquiry in any given place, as to whether we are going on to perfection or are stationary; satisfied

with a certain thought reached, a point decided by ourselves. The Colossians were doing fairly well, but they had not gone on to perfection, they were somewhat hindered, and there is always something peculiar to a place, which hinders.

H.P.W. Would you say a word as to how the pure nard is acquired? You spoke of it as being ready, would you say a little as to how what she had was acquired?

J.T. You took notice of what was said as to its being a sequence -- I think that is important. "Martha served ..." "Mary therefore ..." -- she is introduced as well known, that is, a previous history is in view; the result in Martha is serving. "Mary therefore ..." raises in your mind the whole recorded history of this sister. How did she acquire this? What is it? "Having taken a pound of ointment of pure nard of great price", and the Lord's comment about that is, "Suffer her to have kept this for the day of my preparation for burial". The history, as recorded in Luke 10, would show that she was governed by the current light. It was not an accident with her that she sat at the feet of Jesus and listened to what He was saying -- that was according to current light, that was the light that governed her position. The Lord had been on the mount (Luke 9), and the voice from heaven had said, "Hear him"; she moved in that light, or rather, she sat at His feet because of that light. She was passive, but she was active in the sense of hearing. I believe the allusion is to saints, brothers and sisters, who recognise the present light; it is peculiarly intended to attract us, and to bring about what the Lord intends to be brought about. She began thus and the history of John 11 would show how that was perfected, so it is now a deliberate intelligent act. She has the very best thing for the occasion, and she knows what to do with it, and the effect is felt. I think

the thought is perfection. You have reached the result of the ministry in which you are, which is shining upon you. Would you say that?

H.P.W. It would answer to the hundredfold of Luke 8:8.

J.T. Yes. We are often very slipshod in the way we take in the truth and appropriate it and assimilate it, so that there is not full growth. I think the scene presents perfection as the outcome of what the Lord had ministered.

Ques. Would you say, that where it speaks of Christ having loved them to the end, that is the object in view of which you are now speaking, the object in view is this state of perfection?

J.T. Quite so. It is an earthly position that He came to in Bethany, but in chapter 13 it is before the passover, and the identification of the "supper" spoken of is not clear. What happened is stressed, how "Jesus, knowing that his hour had come that he should depart out of this world to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world, loved them to the end", and "knowing that the Father had given him all things into his hands, and that he came out from God and was going to God" -- that Christ is everything is settled. All that man is going on with religiously is just left. Jesus is not moving in relation to it at all, but in relation to another world; He is going out of the present one, going to God, going to the Father. He has everything in His own hand. In the light of all this the believer today is not hindered by current religious conditions.

E.G. You were saying, if we do not go on to perfection there is something that hinders in the place; do you refer to what is in local gatherings?

J.T. Well, I referred more to the character of the place. The apostles told God about what happened "in this city" (Acts 4:27), as much as to say. That is what we have to contend with in this

city. So it is well to take account of what the characteristics of a city are; our prayers are to have that in mind, for it is what we have to contend with, characteristics that may leaven us and dull our view, not necessarily open opposition.

Ques. If we do not get full advantage from the ministry the Lord is giving, but succumb to the influences around, and do not go on to perfection, I was wondering, seeing the concern of the apostles about those at Colosse and Laodicea, whether we might not eventually land in the Laodicean state.

J.T. Yes. Colosse and Laodicea were adjacent meetings, affected generally by the same conditions. No doubt the subsequent history of Laodicea was in mind.

G.C. In chapter 13 the Lord says, "Ye call me the Teacher and the Lord, and ye say well, for I am so. If I therefore, the Lord and the Teacher, have washed your feet, ye also ought to wash one another's feet". They say Teacher and Lord; the Lord says, Lord and Teacher. Would that be seen in Mary sitting at His feet submitting to the Lord, and then coming under His teaching and learning from Him?

J.T. Well, that comes under the heading of the instruction flowing out of His act. They had called Him Teacher and Lord, whereas His words are, "If I therefore, the Lord and the Teacher, have washed your feet". He asserts His position under these circumstances, not here our Lord, but He is the Lord; He has power to subdue, and moreover, He has power to teach -- who teaches like Him! He puts the titles in the proper order, saying, the Lord and the Teacher; the first stands related to the commandment, according to chapter 14; and the second to the word; the teaching would involve the word "My words", as He says. But what we ought to see particularly is the necessity, not only that our feet should be washed, but that He should do it. In the

light of all the passage states, it says, "Jesus, knowing that his hour had come that he should depart out of this world to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world, loved them to the end. And during supper, the devil having already put it into the heart of Judas, son of Simon, Iscariote, that he should deliver him up, Jesus, knowing that the Father had given him all things into his hands, and that he came out from God and was going to God". These facts are to be noted as to the position, the outlook, and what He has; He has a free hand now, and He loves His own that are in the world, but He is in dignity, He is at supper.

A.R. Will you say a word as to His departing out of the world to the Father? Then in verse 3 it says He came out from God and was going to God. What is the difference between His going to the Father and going to God?

J.T. The first, I suppose, is what is opened up in chapters 14, 15, 16 and 17 -- God viewed by Him as His Father; going back to Him. He had not been there before in the relation of a Son with a Father; He had been there, of course, as to His Person, but He had not been there in that relation; so that it would be the setting up, I think, of the new order of things, the new order of administration above, where He is exalted, receiving all from the Father. It would be the beginning of the new order of things, and administratively, of what we call this dispensation. But then God is a wider thought carrying with it all that belongs to Him under this title. The same order is seen in chapter 20: "My Father and your Father, ... my God and your God". But here it is "the Father" and "God".

A.R. Would you connect it with John 17:5, "... the glory which I had along with thee before the world was"? Going back to God and taking up His place again in the Deity.

J.T. Verses 1 and 3 of our chapter have the economy in mind: verse 5, "Glorify thou me ... with the glory which I had with thee before the world was", alludes to His part in the intrinsic Deity, His part in it. His going to the Father and to God in chapter 13, I think, is still in the economy. He is contemplating an economy into which He has come, and that that economy holds as much in heaven as it does here; He carries on there as He carries on here. He would do nothing, but what He saw the Father do; that all refers to the economy, to the inferior place He took outwardly, and that continues. He goes back there as having died, and the dispensation is set up finally in heaven.

McG. Will you say a word as to what is involved in part with Him?

J.T. We need to see what is in His mind. Judas is there alongside Him with Satan in his heart; Satan had put it into his heart to deliver up Christ. The position is that Jesus is in dignity, but now He rises from supper, which is proceeding. It is not what we do. In chapter 12 they made Him a supper, but it is not said who made Him this; it is something He is proceeding with. He is there; and He rises from that and lays aside His garments. These are not merely religious garments such as are current, they denote what is spiritual, the spiritual dignity that belongs to Him in this position -- He lays them aside. We have to note every word that is recorded. He "rises from supper and lays aside his garments, and having taken a linen towel he girded himself: then he pours water into the washhand basin, and began to wash the feet of the disciples, and to wipe them with the linen towel with which he was girded. He comes therefore to Simon Peter; and he says to him. Lord, dost thou wash my feet?"

What is to be noticed is, the dignity of Christ in this position; He is going on with this supper, it

is not finished, He is going on with it, and He divests Himself; He does everything. He has no attendant. Moses had an attendant, the high priest had attendants but the Lord has no attendant here. He does it all, which is another feature of John -- He does it Himself, and He comes to Simon Peter. I suppose He carried the basin round as they lay at table, and He comes to Simon Peter. That is, He has to come to this and that person, He is performing a lowly service. Well, what is my thought of what He is doing? Am I ready for it? Do I understand it? Do I see any necessity for it? Maybe I am clean as far as I see; but He says, "Unless I wash thee, thou hast not part with me". He must do it.

E.G. Will you open that out -- that He must do it?

J.T. Well, it is the great thought. We may think ourselves quite equal to any position, but the Lord says, I must have to say to everything. John would put that before us, it is what the Lord does, and He will do it, He is doing it. Am I letting Him do it? If not, things are not right, whatever I may think of what is done. He comes to Simon Peter, and he has a reputation that things are right with him, but are they right with him? Is the Lord having His way with him?

Rem. It suggests that a certain amount of will on our side oftentimes hinders the Lord.

J.T. That is the point here. "Unless I wash thee, thou hast not part with me". It is "first Peter" -- Peter had that distinction; well, has the Lord His way with Peter? Is the Lord having His way with him? If He is not, the Lord says, you are out of it; you may be doing much, but you are not having part with Me.

H.P.W. Is the service done at the Supper with us?

J.T. It may be; it is not easy to say; the point is, primarily, Is the Lord doing the thing? Later the

teaching is that we are to do it for one another, but it must be in the light of His doing.

A.R. Would you say what "part with me" refers to?

J.T. It is what He is going on with. He had been going on with the Jewish system, especially according to the synoptical gospels, but now He is going on with the heavenly order of things. We want to get at what is in His mind. "Jesus, knowing that his hour had come that he should depart out of this world to the Father"; and then again, "knowing that the Father had given him all things into his hands". What is in His mind? The word "knowing" alludes to what is in His mind at this moment, because divinely He knows everything, but what is He speaking about? What is He thinking about? Well, He is going on with the Supper, and the disciples are having part with Him -- because they were ceremonially clean. But there is something more needed; there is more needed than was needed in Bethany, and, primarily, even for the supper they are now partaking of.

H.P.W. Do I understand you to mean that what the Lord is particularly going on with now is to bring before us all that His own Supper opens up? There it is not so much a question as to whether adjustment is brought about by the Supper, but as to what is in His mind.

J.T. Yes. As we proceed with this chapter we see the wonderful things that were in His mind -- right up to chapter 17, where He leads us into the greatest possible things.

P.S.P. What is the significance of the act itself?

J.T. Of course it is in some sense to remove soil, but the disciples were already recognised as clean here, so it is a spiritual matter, above what is ordinary. Many may think themselves quite fit for the things the Lord is going on with, but He would

inquire, Have I had to do with you in this matter? The service is more to be experienced than to be defined.

P.S.P. Is it the application of the death of Christ?

J.T. Of course it is, there could be no washing without that. But notice, He puts the water into the basin; that is to say, He is placing it where He can use it in relation to me. Not the great general thought of the water and the blood; it is water placed so that it can be used in relation to me, or to any of us. It is a necessity in view of having part with Christ, and no one who loves Him wants to be out of that.

Ques. What is involved in the expression, "thou shalt know hereafter"?

J.T. That would allude to their then perfect means of knowledge, we are now in the time of knowing everything -- "Ye have the unction from the holy one, and ye know all things".

Rem. What you have been saying would guard against any thought that we have ability of ourselves to move forward into this higher realm. Your thought is that it involves some personal service from the Lord.

J.T. That is the thing one has in mind. Definitions are quite in order, but we want to get hold of this one thought -- "Unless I wash thee, thou hast not part with me".

THE DISCIPLES' POSITION REGULATED BY CHRIST'S

Matthew 5:1 - 12; Matthew 8:18 - 27; Matthew 14:22 - 33

J.T. The strenuousness of the instruction is in mind in Matthew. Among other things, it requires that disciples should be regulated by the Lord in any position He takes up. In chapter 5 He goes up to the mountain, and, having sat down, His disciples come to Him; they move according to His movements and position. Then in the next scripture read, He entered into a ship and His disciples followed Him -- that is, they move again as He moves. Finally, He compels the disciples to go on board a ship, as if He would keep the matter going; if we take up the attitude of being governed by His movements. He would exercise His authority to keep us on this line. The times are difficult, they are strenuous and perilous, and they are becoming increasingly so, so it is thought that the consideration of these scriptures would help us in pursuing as we began.

First, the Lord opened His mouth and taught, we are told. In chapter 5 the crowds were in mind, as if they were hindering, so He went up to a mountain. Again, in chapter 8, seeing the crowds, He commanded to depart; and He dismissed the crowds again, according to the third scripture read. So that throughout withdrawal from the crowds is contemplated. The special thoughts the Lord has in mind require the withdrawal from what might influence us adversely, for crowds such as are contemplated in Matthew are more or less indifferent -- they may be interested or they may not. Certainly the influence of crowds does not promote spirituality, although we may have to serve in a crowd.

The first scripture indicates the gain of being governed by the Lord in His movements. So, having

opened His mouth, He taught them -- and it is all blessedness. He speaks of blessedness all the way down to verse 12 -- nine times. That should be a very good start for us as showing the gain of being governed by the Lord's movements. He begins with the poor in spirit, that they are blessed.

Ques. What would be the evidence of being poor in spirit?

J.T. It would be that one finds no sustenance in what men find sustenance and enjoyment in. The Lord was supremely that -- poor in spirit as regards the world. As poor in spirit you would not find sustenance in anything you have here.

J.M. What connection -- do you make between discipleship and bondmanship?

J.T. They run together, but, in the former, teaching is the general thought. It is worth while; they are choosing the good part and the Lord is assuring them and confirming them in their choice, in coming to Him, in speaking of blessedness. He does not say they were all these things, but He comes to them at the end -- "Blessed are ye when they may reproach and persecute you, and say every wicked thing against you, lying, for my sake". They were persecuted -- hence, "Blessed are ye ..."

C.H. Are these the features that are to mark us in the present aspect of the kingdom?

J.T. Yes; these are the qualities that are blessed. It points to the intrinsic features of the kingdom, and they cannot be overcome, because in the very worst that can be done to you there is blessedness.

Ques. Is the thought, if we are to be divinely instructed, we are to be where He is, a moral position?

J.T. Quite so -- here moral elevation.

C.H. Would David set forth one who was poor in spirit in a special way? He speaks of the poor man in the Psalms.

J.T. Yes, I was thinking of that very word; undoubtedly it is the Lord Himself in Psalm 41"Blessed is he that understandeth the poor". According to Luke 6:20, the disciples were thus regarded as corresponding with Him.

Ques. Would it be right to say that, if we are to be in the gain of bondmanship, discipleship is the way to it?

J.T. I think so. It refers to the mind a good deal. You come to Christ through the gospel and you see it is worth while; there is something in this, not simply relief for your soul, but something for your mind, and general outlook. Chapter 4, of course, is basic to this: how the Lord was in the wilderness, how He overcame the devil, how the light sprang up; and how He called two sets of brothers, how they moved at His call. Then the wonderful power there was in Him; He went round the whole of Galilee teaching in their synagogues and preaching the glad tidings of the kingdom and healing every disease, and "his fame went out into the whole of Syria, and they brought to him all that were ill, suffering under various diseases and pains, and those possessed by demons, and lunatics, and paralytics; and he healed them. And great crowds followed him from Galilee, and Decapolis, and Jerusalem, and Judaea, and beyond the Jordan". Then He goes up into the mountain -- that is an inkling to faith that there is something to be learnt in moral elevation, involving strenuous movement, for He has to go up the mountain, and His disciples come to Him. I think the Lord takes account of that; His disciples come to Him, and, having opened His mouth, He began to talk of blessedness. At the end He virtually says, You have part in this too, so that it is not something beyond us. It may be a matter of persecution, so that there is nothing for the flesh at all, no incentive at all; it is repulsive to fleshly feeling.

Ques. Would the verses in Isaiah bear on this? -- "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand the report? Them that are weaned from the milk, withdrawn from the breasts? For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little", Isaiah 28:9, 10.

J.T. Yes, in the sense of detailed instruction. The passage refers to teaching suitable to children, those in view being in a low, sottish condition; there was a testimony, "But they would not hear", and it took a judicial form (verse 13).

F.W.W. It is like Matthew 11. He first says, "Come to me", and then, "learn from me; for I am meek and lowly in heart".

J.T. Just so, only here He is not calling attention to Himself yet. Later He says, "I say to you" -- but here it is blessedness that He speaks of, and blessedness that attaches to certain qualities whoever has them. So, whatever you have in this sense He appraises it and encourages you in the sense that it is something of value.

Ques. Would one's spirit stand very much in the same relationship to discipleship, as the mind does to bondmanship? If your spirit is not pure you may turn away.

J.T. Yes, I think so. The spirit is the first-mentioned as part of the being -- "your whole spirit, and soul, and body", as if the spirit comes first. The mind is connected with bondmanship in Philippians 2. God had been working and the qualities mentioned here as occasioning blessing, are the fruit of His work. These qualities are honoured here; we all need to come into this blessedness. Maybe we are missing it through not taking sufficient account of the qualities that exist in us. Possibly there is a little more in us of the work of God than we had thought of,

and perhaps we do not rest enough in what God has done in us. The epistle to the Romans, being analytical, helps us as to these qualities, if we have any of them, for we may as well take account of them in their true value as the work of God. The mind and spirit are both called attention to in Romans, but the mind particularly -- "I myself with the mind serve God's law". I have found my feet through the analysis of Romans 7, and I am enabled to take account of what I have and to move on.

Ques. Is that the spiritual mind?

J.T. The first thing is to see what the faculty is that God has given me. I am determined that I can employ it and dominate it and that it is to serve the law of God, not any other.

Rem. Paul in Corinthians speaks of our having the mind of Christ.

J.T. The mind of Christ is a great thought, it is the thinking faculty. The mind is often used in a moral sense, but the faculty has to be taken account of by itself. Through analysis I come to see that I can employ it and dominate it, so that eventually I "prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God".

C.H. Is that why the Lord says, "Blessed are ye ..." as though He would give them credit for being able to enter into the persecutions?

J.T. Yes. He puts it on you, that it is when you are persecuted -- "Blessed are ye, when men shall ... persecute you". Suffering in loyalty to Christ, you come into this blessedness.

Rem. The persecution would come when you are setting forth these features that you have been taught.

J.T. Yes, "And all indeed who desire to live piously in Christ Jesus will be persecuted", 2 Timothy 3:12.

E.G. It is remarkable that persecution should follow the thought of peace-makers being called the sons of God.

J.T. Quite so.

Ques. Is the faculty of the mind referred to in Colossians 3:2 -- "have your mind on the things that are above"?

J.T. Just so, you have power over it. It is a great matter to reach that, that you have power over your mind.

'No infant's changing pleasure
Is like my wandering mind', (Hymn 51)

said a great servant. We all have to accept that, but it is a great thing to control the mind, to shut out certain things and allow other things.

J.G. You helped me greatly in your remark that we should keep control of our minds.

J.T. It is what is pointed out, I think, as to Abraham; he scared away the birds -- those evil thoughts or powers that would damage him -- spoil what he was doing.

The next point in the passage read in chapter 8, is the extension of the Lord's authority. It says, "Jesus, seeing great crowds around him, commanded to depart to the other side", for He was staying in a particular place. Spirituality wanes in such circumstances; even after meetings such as this, we are apt to speak of things that have no value at all spiritually. Holiday-making combined with the service of God is also fraught with danger. I am only saying this to be practical; we are apt to lose what we have gained unless we are on the alert, and the Lord sees this and commands to go to the other side, to take up another position, a new set of exercises. That is, you never can relax spiritually without letting the enemy have an advantage, and he will rob you of what you have gained. So "seeing great crowds around him" -- that would emphasise more what

we are saying, they are around Him. He had done what He intended to do in the place, that was finished; we are told, "when the evening was come, they brought to him many possessed by demons, and he cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all that were ill" -- that work is finished. The Lord has something else now to take on -- He commanded to depart to the other side. And then we have two men: the first says, "Teacher, I will follow thee whithersoever thou mayest go", that is, I am not behind any of the disciples. "And Jesus says to him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the heaven roosting-places; but the Son of man has not where he may lay his head". That is, one may think he is quite up to the mark; but the Lord will give you further tests; He has not where to lay His head -- are you ready for that? Then another says, "Lord, suffer me first to go away and bury my father. But Jesus said to him, Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead". These are two remarkable tests at this point. The second request seems very reasonable, but these reasonable things brought into christianity are dangerous. This man who speaks as not behind any disciple illustrates how we may be affected by ministry. All he had to do was to act on the Lord's command to go to the other side; that is the moral position, it is a question now of doing what the Lord would have us do. Great services are being carried on; the Lord is doing things in pieces and He has finished this bit, now He is preparing for the next. If you have not got this in your mind, the enemy will get in. We must not let our minds be at a loose end.

F.I. So Peter exhorts us to gird up the loins of our minds.

J.T. Quite so.

Ques. Will you say again what you said as to the first man saying, "I will follow thee"?

J.T. Well, he was taking the ground that he is not behind anyone; he said, "Teacher, I will follow thee whithersoever thou mayest go". That was the ground he was taking. The Lord's answer would show that he was saying a little too much.

Ques. Would all this suggest self-complacency and self-importance, and an absence of definiteness, which would be great hindrances to discipleship?

J.T. That is part of the teaching. The Lord is very considerate of us, and He knows what is behind what we say better than ourselves. It is a serious undertaking, for the point is discipleship, that you are in accord with the Lord, that wherever He goes, you will go.

Rem. So the man in verse 19 was marked by self-confidence, and the other by a lack of definiteness.

J.T. "Suffer me first to go away and bury my father" was a demand of nature, but the urgency of discipleship excluded even this, and the Lord, as sacrificing everything, must be the Judge.

J.M. In the third case, Luke 9, we have one who wanted to return to say good-bye to his people.

J.T. Yes. These two incidents in Matthew suffice for the teaching in view. The Lord went into the ship and His disciples -- the characteristic ones -- followed Him. You want to be there, making no remarks about it; the point is to follow.

C.H. Are these adjustments necessary to us if we are to be the true followers?

J.T. I think so, you feel how they challenge the heart; you want to be really what the teaching requires -- a disciple.

C.H. Is it peculiar to most of us, too much forwardness or too much backwardness?

J.T. Yes. His disciples followed Him, and the passage says, "the water became very agitated on

the sea, so that the ship was covered by the waves; but he slept".

Ques. Would you say that would be normal christianity today -- following the Lord in faith?

J.T. That is the thing -- do it, it is the doing of the thing. So Acts 1 says, "things which Jesus began both to do and to teach". Then our scripture says, "having arisen, he rebuked the winds and the sea, and there was a great calm. But the men were astonished, saying, What sort of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him?" The point is, what we learn and what all in the ship get, as a result of a move like this. The men in the ship are learning. The word "men" is not the same as the word "disciples". The men in the ship are brought into the matter. The effect of the testimony is widening; those who are in the testimony of God ought never to be narrowed up, there ought always to be some widening out of things. Even if people are not sharing in the thing fully, they are affected; all that are around us ought to be affected by what is happening if true discipleship marks us.

Ques. Are those referred to here especially those that came by the way?

J.T. That is it; then the thought arises that disciples are made (Matthew 28:19).

A.W.R. Would this be a test for us in the midst of the present political situation in the world? At the present moment there seem to be storms arising, and disciples are tested.

J.T. Quite so, and there should be more than we began with coming out; a continual enlargement of thought, even if numbers are not increased. People who come in contact with true disciples are affected, that is the idea, there is a testimony going on. You would say that?

Rem. Yes, indeed. I was thinking a disciple would not be very serviceable if he cannot go on when the Lord seems to be asleep.

J.T. Just so; disciples should know that all is well. "The Lord awoke as one out of sleep, like a mighty man that shouteth aloud by reason of wine", Psalm 78:65. In Samuel's day the ark was taken, the glory departed, they were being tested, and no doubt Samuel's constitution was being built up, as many others in those days, and God came in, He "awoke", He thundered on the Philistines and discomfited them, but the men of Israel completed the work, pursuing the enemy beyond Beth-car. Here the men in the ship inquire, "What sort of man is this?" It is a new kind of man and that is what is needed -- a new kind of man to carry on. He had commanded to go to the other side.

Rem. The experience of the disciples in Matthew 8 and the result of it, as stated in verse 27, would correspond with the exercises set out in Psalm 44:22 - 26 and Psalm 45:2, "But for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are reckoned as sheep for slaughter. Awake, why sleepest thou, Lord? ..." The discipline goes on, and God appears to be asleep; but the cry goes out from the heart to wake Him. The result is in the experience detailed in Psalm 45 -- an intelligent apprehension and appreciation of Christ and of the assembly; also ability to speak of it.

S.R. Is the thought that we should be restful in circumstances out of our control? The disciple is not above his master, but as his master.

J.T. I think so. And knowing the Lord, I expect Him to come into any stormy circumstances I may be experiencing. I have learnt the Lord in that way, and I am expecting Him to come in and quell the storm; and He does that, even in regard of international

commotions, as we look to Him. The Lord comes in. He comes in and makes a way for us.

C.H. Is this not a good exercise developed in the men -- "What sort of man is this?"

J.T. I thought that. The apprehension of a new kind of Man sprang up in these men -- at least that is the opportunity for them.

C.H. Do we not get occupied much with ourselves, but the exercise is, What this Man is?

J.T. Yes, so you are now occupied with Him. In chapter 14: 33, as we shall see later, "those in the ship came and did homage to him, saying, Truly thou art God's Son".

G.C.S. Walking on the sea is moral superiority to it.

J.T. Yes; superiority to circumstances effected by the devil. We are living in difficult times, and they are becoming more and more so. Chapter 14 contemplates a troubled sea, yet the Lord walking on it.

J.M. Will you help us as to what the disciples represent as having been compelled to enter a ship and go over, and the Lord remaining to dismiss the crowds?

J.T. This is introductory to the assembly, in connection with which the Lord specially undertakes for us. Sometimes the crowds are attractive; it says, there were five thousand men, besides women and children -- a large number. I suppose we should take that to heart, for we are apt to attach importance to big meetings, and the like; "immediately", the passage says, "he compelled the disciples to go on board ship, and to go on before him to the other side, until he should have dismissed the crowds. And having dismissed the crowds, he went up into the mountain apart to pray". That is, He performed two services; He dismissed the crowds, which would mean that out of crowds of people evil might rise -- even if people have been ministered to by Christ --

if they do not remain under His control, evil may arise. Stress is laid on the dismissing of the crowd: and then He went up to pray. He could pray below, but He goes up to pray, alluding, I suppose, to His position above now in relation to the assembly.

F.I. So that we might rise to the height of His greatness in being able to speak of Him as Son of God.

J.T. That is the lesson here. It is "those in the ship" -- they are not called "men" here as in chapter 8 -- they say to the Lord, "Truly thou art God's Son".

Ques. Would similar features be seen in Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego? They were in the fire, and there was one like the Son of God there.

J.T. Just so -- "the fourth". Here the disciples were "tossed by the waves" -- corresponding somewhat with the position in the furnace. The Lord joined them, walking on the sea, and He joined those in the furnace.

C.M. Is the little ship a wrong place for us now, or do the two thoughts go on together?

J.T. I suppose the ship was the Jewish position, and then there is the leading up to assembly position. The circumstances are not to be altered. Then they rejoin the ship, which would point to the end of the assembly period, I suppose. Those in the ship spoke to the Lord and told Him that He was the Son of God. That is remarkable; I am sure the Lord loves to hear such a confession as that from us -- not simply that the disciples do it, but the people in the ship do it -- there is a widening thought. The Lord had put them into this position for their education. We need to be subject to the Lord. He has the very best thing in mind for us, that we are going to have part in the assembly.

W.B. What answers to the troubling of the sea today?

J.T. Well, it is what the enemy would cause as against the saints as in the position indicated.

Rem. This is not a sudden squall; such a wind is blowing all the time. There are occasions when special occurrences happen, of course.

J.T. "The wind was contrary", which is to be expected. As we are placed in any position or circumstance by the Lord, the enemy will oppose.

Ques. Verse 32 says, "When they had gone up into the ship, the wind fell". What would that suggest?

J.T. Well, these adverse circumstances will come to an end. But the Lord walking on the water is in complete superiority to these adverse circumstances, and the assembly was to join Him there, as seen in Peter. This is the great lesson here.

A.W.R. Until we arrive at the knowledge that He is God's Son and are in the light of His present position, are we not liable to regard this as an apparition?

J.T. Yes. This idea of phantom belongs to the realm of superstition. This is education for the assembly now, as I said, but the position of the remnant is also in mind. Then the homage to the Lord -- it is a very great matter that people come to speak of the Lord Himself and call Him the Son of God. The Lord in compelling them to enter the boat, had all this wonderful experience and education in mind. It was entirely His own thought. The boat represents a known accommodation in adverse conditions of the testimony, but walking on the water is a wholly new experience and depends on faith as apprehending Christ. Peter says, "Lord, if it be thou, command me to come to thee upon the waters". His faith was weak, but he moved to Christ under this command.

GROUPS SEEN IN RELATION TO THE CROSS

Matthew 27:45 - 66

J.T. The groups or classes of persons seen here at the cross of our Lord, are in mind to be considered at this time. In the section read, you have those who do not understand the words spoken by the Lord, though uttered in the most perfect way, with the clearest pronunciation. They say, This man calls for Elias, thus indicating that they regard the Lord as a mere creature, praying to another creature. Then there are the military, keeping guard; they are affected by the testimony at the moment along with the centurion, and confess the Lord as Son of God (verse 54). Then those who followed Him from Galilee and ministered to Him, some of whose names are given. Following on them in the narrative, we have Joseph, whom we may associate with Nicodemus, another disciple who reverentially cares for the body of the Lord. Then the chief enemies of the testimony -- the priests and Pharisees -- carrying on the service of the devil, are seen at the end, endeavouring to defeat the testimony by an artifice which the governor allowed (verses 62 - 66).

I thought we might become more reverential and humble in presence of the truth through the consideration of these groups, challenging ourselves as to which we belong to, for they exist today. This section gives us only some of the classes; there are the soldiers mentioned earlier, Pilate and his wife, and Judas. This is a most solemn and searching chapter for us, and intended to sober and humble us, and subdue our spirits.

F.I. All these different classes represent certain conditions in which men are found today.

J.T. Yes, they have their counterpart today, and we are challenged as to which class we are in.

Obviously those who followed the Lord from Galilee ministering to Him, represent the fellowship, as we might say; though "afar off", they were with the Lord in heart, and intelligently, according to their measure. John in his gospel refers to them as standing by the cross. Then there are those who are capable of being affected immediately by the current testimony, as it is presented. They make a confession; it is an encouragement as to fellowship; we may reckon on the current work of God seen in the immediate effect produced, over against positive opposition to it. Earlier, those standing by said to the Lord, "If thou art Son of God, descend from the cross" (verse 40); and again, "For he said, I am Son of God". Here, the centurion said, "Truly this man was Son of God" (verse 54). Whatever has been said by the haters of Christ -- and much has been said -- God would have the very thing affirmed that has been denied, and that is an important matter. It is a sure effect of the work of God over against what is asserted in opposition to Christ. We have the word in 1 Corinthians 15, "your labour is not in vain in the Lord", hence one can always reckon on immediate and genuine results from the testimony, over against what is being alleged in opposition.

H.B. Would a crisis in the testimony bring this to light, or is it general?

J.T. It is the general bearing of the testimony here. The chapter shows it is a very public matter. The chief priests and elders take counsel against Jesus; they are the leading religious people. Then there are Pilate and his wife, the latter capable of being affected by the testimony that was current, and recognising that the Lord is a "righteous man". Then the remorse of Judas is recorded, and the Lord's position as standing before the governor; all this is public; and the soldiers sitting down, then the superscription of His accusation, and His own voice

in a cry. No passage could be more affecting, more profound, more far-reaching. You have the voice of Christ in the clearest possible manner, and yet His language is not understood. He is regarded by those around as a mere creature -- how current this is today! -- and dependent on another creature -- a double blasphemy.

W.McB. Psalm 22 comes in here.

J.T. Yes, the actual words He used are quoted, a translation into Greek being furnished in the text. It is in the vernacular, it should be understood by those present; and yet it was not understood. So today there are plain things in testimony, and yet not understood. "Why do ye not understand my speech?" the Lord said. It brings out those who do not understand, exposing "the ignorance of senseless men", 1 Peter 2:15. The words here would have been understood in any setting, save in relation to Christ, showing the perverse will at work. Over against that, we have the military men taking account of heaven's action. As the Lord cried and died, "the veil of the temple was rent in two from the top to the bottom, and the earth was shaken, and the rocks were rent, and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints fallen asleep arose, and going out of the tombs after his arising, entered into the holy city and appeared unto many. But the centurion, and they who were with him on guard over Jesus, seeing the earthquake and the things that took place, feared greatly, saying, Truly this man was Son of God". God is thus seeing to the matter. This sign did not come immediately at the first cry (see verse 46), so the real opposers commit themselves. It was after the second cry, the Lord having died (verse 50), that God intervened, having undoubtedly these military men in mind. They would represent the current work of God in connection with the testimony. It had become

effective in them, and so they say, with the centurion, "Truly this man was Son of God".

Ques. What is the difference between the two cries?

J.T. The first cry is in regard to the actual wrath of God, when Christ was paying the penalty of sin, "Why hast thou forsaken me?" The second has in view the termination of the man that sinned, in the actual death of Jesus, though the penalty in the forsaking had already been borne. The second cry corresponds with the other gospels; it involves that the man that sinned is done with morally. The whole thing is settled in regard of penalty, first in the actual sufferings, not merely physical, but of a spiritual nature which the Lord Jesus endured; then the second cry is in relation to actual death, conscious as the Lord was of what He was doing. It was not weakness: He cried with a loud voice.

J.G. Jesus suffered without the gate and sanctified the people, therefore we go forth to Him without the camp. Would you say a little as to the bodies of the beasts burned without the camp.

J.T. It sets forth the absolute termination of the man that sinned, the sin-offering is alluded to. There was a difference in the sin-offerings in that the blood of some of them was not carried inside the veil. These latter allude to our apprehension. The blood carried inside and placed on the mercy-seat refers to the fulness of the thought of atonement. God is appeased, and the answer to that is the burning of the whole carcass outside the camp. The burning of the sacrifice outside the camp corresponds with the second cry; the man that sinned is dealt with in toto.

P.S.P. Death is dispossessed.

J.T. Quite so, and there is the testimony to it. Christ is raised again for our justification.

Rem. It says, "after his resurrection" that those alluded to here came out of their graves.

J.T. It is a question as to when the tombs were opened, but it is mentioned here in connection with a group of facts. The coming out of the tomb was of course after His resurrection -- some days after, no doubt -- but it shows how God confirmed Christ's resurrection. It stands in relation to the facts as confirmation for our faith. These things mentioned affected the centurion -- "seeing the earthquake", and so on. There is a group of great general facts, and their bearing, brought forward; they are for faith. As the testimony is effectively rendered, God works in souls. He had worked in souls earlier, but here He does it instantly. It is an encouragement to us to go on, seeing that God works in relation to verbal testimony presented, as in the voice of Christ, and God confirms the word by signs following. Other things help us besides the actual voice. We have the concurrent work in souls, and the confirmation of testimony in signs following. "Knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord", the apostle says.

-.M. The veil is rent here from top to bottom; in Luke it is in the midst.

J.T. In Luke it is a fuller thought, in the midst: God coming out to man. Here it is more from the top to the bottom. Matthew gives us God acting authoritatively; it is from above, as it were; the whole Jewish system (in its legal efforts, hindering the truth of christianity) is set aside. In Luke it is just "in the midst". It is grace: God, through the death of Christ, making a way to reach man. You can never understand the gospels save through the epistles, there you get the educational side and you come to the gospels for confirmation. How great the position is here! The facts are brought to bear on us by the power of teaching in the epistles, so they become embedded in our souls. As to the passage

before us, we shall do well to put ourselves alongside these women -- they came a long way.

Ques. Was all carried forward in testimony through the apostles? Paul spoke of Jesus and the resurrection.

J.T. Yes, on the principle of levitical ability. No one understands the gospels until he understands Romans.

W.McB. How do we stand by the cross of Jesus today?

J.T. By honestly accepting the teaching of 1 Corinthians. The word of the cross rightly received gives you to understand it. You understand it thoroughly. It is not a metal cross worn on our persons: there is no value in that!

E.G. Is the "holy city" a sphere where such a testimony would be received?

J.T. The Lord had exposed the literal city in the most scathing terms, but the primary idea of Jerusalem is never abandoned by God. The saints at Jerusalem, after the Lord, as risen, came in among them, would be ready for those risen ones coming in; they "appeared to many", Scripture says. The Lord made a way for this, in coming amongst His own on the first day of the week. It is like bringing His sheaves with Him; He has the risen saints. We have to leave with God what happened to them afterwards. The testimony of their resurrection entered into the constitution of the assembly -- real risen saints coming out of their graves; they may have been thousands of years dead.

J.G. What about the one hundred and forty-four thousand (Revelation 14)?

J.T. Those are not actually risen, they are the fruit of testimony and are with the Lord on Mount Zion. They are near enough to heaven to hear the song. Three groups are brought together: those who form the assembly, the living creatures and elders;

the victorious saints, those put to death under the Beast, no doubt; and this group, "bought from the earth", but on the earth, yet very near to heaven so as to hear the new song.

It would greatly strengthen us in the assembly if we saw these men who had come out of their graves alluded to in this chapter in Matthew. What a triumph for Christ are these risen saints in the holy city!

P.S.P. Would that word, "compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses" connect with the resurrection scene?

J.T. The cloud of witnesses are those recorded in Hebrews 11 as living by faith. These risen testify to Christ's resurrection. Christ the first-fruits, then those that are His at His coming. These are among the latter, although appearing early as a testimony. The Lord spent forty days in making the saints spiritual, first appearing to Cephas, the erring brother, and then to others. The more spiritual we are, the more we can visualise this; how formative and confirming these appearings would be! You have James included, and then all the apostles -- the authoritative ones. These appearings would not be limited to the forty days, they would come into the period of the Spirit, as in Paul's case.

Ques. What is the value of the introduction of these appearings in 1 Corinthians 15?

J.T. To bring us into the spirit of things. One of the greatest results in reading Scripture is to be brought into the current of things, not simply the letter. What it must have been to see the Lord in the presence of five hundred brethren!

H.B. Would the movements of the women referred to here show how we arrive at things? They followed Jesus from Galilee.

J.T. Quite so. The next chapter shows, alas! how unbelieving they were, but undoubtedly the Lord

educated them in those forty days, so as to be ready for greater things. They came from Galilee which speaks of reproach, and are now standing at the cross -- a gibbet with Jesus on it! the supreme thought of reproach. The apostle could say, "God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world". All these events brought down to us make for spiritual enrichment.

F.I. The appearings could hardly be confined to the forty days, as Paul is included, so the appearing to the five hundred may not have been then.

J.T. It may not have been. Colossians is the teaching epistle by which we come into the good of this. Paul writes, "buried with him in baptism, in which ye have been also raised with him through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead". That is, I take it in, in faith; and then secondly you have quickening, so that there is the means of appreciating the thing. Thus we are able to testify.

We should fix our minds on those who followed the Lord from Galilee, so as to understand the fellowship. Like the twenty-four elders, they are experienced believers, having followed Jesus, and that from Galilee. Here they are in the place of supreme reproach, along with the One who was the centre of their affections. Then we have Joseph, who is called a disciple, though he is not in quite the same class as the women, nor as the centurion -- still he came into it undoubtedly. First we have the immediate result of the work of God which is always to be recognised, then a man called a disciple who comes in after the death of Christ, not seen in relation to His cross, but to His burial. It is what the soul discerns. If I discern Christ as Son of God, I am in the light of another world, and I am called into the fellowship of God's Son. Fellowship has

to be noted. The women are of one mind, and experienced in it; they followed the Lord a long way, ministering to Him.

Rem. It says they beheld "from afar off".

J.T. Matthew is an assembly man, and takes note of distance. John speaks more abstractly, he says, standing "by the cross of Jesus". Evidently they were near enough for Him to address His mother and John; if He speaks, He will regulate you. From Matthew's point of view, there is distance.

Rem. "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"

J.T. You cannot overcome the world save as in that power. The Son of God belongs to another world. You might be judging the world and not out of it, like Lot. An outlet is the thing. The Lord is giving us to understand what we are to confess. Not that this Son was begotten of the Father before all worlds. We are not confessing that, for Scripture says that He was "marked out Son of God in power ... by resurrection of the dead". I confess that; also that "we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding that we should know him that is true; and we are in him that is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life".

E.G. What would the hewn tomb suggest?

J.T. It was a suitable grave; Satan could not rob Him of that. God robbed Satan of the advantage of the grave that he intended for the Lord. There is satisfaction in the enemy's intent being defeated, even if nothing positive is gained; "but he was with the rich in his death", Isaiah 53:9.

Ques. What is the force of the Word "demanded" used by Joseph (John 19:38)?

J.T. Joseph, I suppose, could approach the governor in the liberty indicated. God ordered it that there was such a man, an equal, as we may say.

Pilate could recognise the status of Joseph. God selects a certain man for a certain work.

Then we have the chief priests and Pharisees making provision for what they deemed might take place. "And Pilate said to them, Ye have a watch: go, secure it as well as ye know how". They did so; it is man's final act, and the next chapter opens up heaven's great act -- a messenger from heaven is sitting on the stone! That is derision, "He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh".

Ques. Would this action on the part of the priests and others imply fear that after all they had not got rid of Christ?

J.T. Yes, that same fear is present in opposers today; why are they so active? They are constantly saying this or that to add to their heaped-up opposition. They are afraid.

Ques. May we look for intervention today?

J.T. Yes, heaven will come in, so our resource is in prayer. The women were on the alert. "What I say to you, I say to all, Watch". In every matter of this kind where man does his worst, and Satan does his worst, God comes in for us.

PRAYER

Genesis 20:7, 17; Job 42:7 - 10; Acts 9:10 - 13

I have in mind to speak about prayer, particularly to call attention to God's interest in those who pray. He knows them. He tells us that if a man love Him; He knows him; and whilst that is general -- God knowing us in all our parts and features -- He also particularises in what He knows in each of us. Of course He knows all divinely -- the good and the evil -- and in order to assure us it is so, He speaks of books in which He writes names and works, not that He needs to do this on His own account, but to assure us of the accuracy of His knowledge of us. So we have Moses alluding to God's book -- "blot me ... out of thy book" -- but God takes counsel with Himself as to this blotting out of names. We have the book of life and other books. God, as was said, assuring us in this way of His accurate knowledge of us, for He regards all of importance; but the Spirit says, "If any man love God, the same is known of him". God knows him, and he who loves God prays, characteristically at least, in regard of divine interests -- those things which are of the greatest importance to God.

There are believers who are of a missionary mind, and if there is any likelihood of a convert, they pray for such. In this they serve well, but in Scripture, prayers for saints are enjoined more than those for sinners, and this is confirmed by example. The most active and most efficient servant of God is the man who needs prayer most; so, while praying for a likely convert, let us not forget those who serve God, indeed all saints. The names on the breastplate are not sinners as such, but saints; so, if we love God we shall pray for what is nearest to His heart, and of chief importance to Him. Not that we omit "all

men", for we are enjoined to pray for them, but let us remember that the great urgency of prayer according to Scripture is in relation to those in the testimony.

Now these three men that I dwell on are selected as illustrative of what is in mind, men whom God has taken account of as persons who pray. Perhaps no service is so effective, and none so within the range of all as prayer; and God, in these scriptures, would encourage us as to His valuation of the prayers of saints. You will remember how the living creatures and the twenty-four elders each had golden bowls full of odours which are said to be the prayers of saints, as if they were treasured by the most distinguished and most sympathetic of those who are the subjects of God's work, reflecting in this way God's estimate of prayer. It does not say in Revelation 5 that they offered the prayers, but they represent persons who are sympathetic with the heart and mind of God, and with His people too. In chapter 8 you have the Priest, not at the altar without, but inside at the golden altar; He has a censer, and the fragrance from it makes efficacious "the prayers of the saints". Let the youngest understand this, that as he offers his prayers, however meagre, yet if it is really prayer, if he is praying with prayer, like Elijah, his prayers are made efficacious by our great Priest at the golden altar. What I refer to is intended to draw all saints into this great service.

Abraham is the first to be noticed, and he is seen in relation to a king. It is befitting that he should appear thus, as he is heir of the world. We, too, are in that heirship, every one of us, and are even to "judge the world". Abraham also represented that side. He says, "Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?" But God says of him, "I know him that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of

Jehovah, to do righteousness and justice". He is the man. The heir of the world must be judge, for the world needs to be judged, and He who is the great Offspring of Abraham, the Lord Jesus, "Son of David, Son of Abraham", is to be Judge. Scripture says, God "hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained". Christ comes in thus, for He is Heir of all, and Luke presents Him to us in relation to humanity, and in his gospel He is seen praying some ten times.

Abraham foreshadows all this, and in this sense Jehovah speaks of him to a monarch. The thought sometimes arises in one's heart, Did God ever speak to anyone about me? did He ever say he will pray for you? How regretful we would be if we proved remiss in this matter, and failed to pray for a needy one. God has His instrumentalities in this way, and even rulers and kings are subjects of prayer. God has His own way of making communications to these rulers, however wicked they are, as we speak; He has avenues to their hearts. The heart of the king, it says, "is in the hand of the Lord ... he turneth it whithersoever he will". He has a way of controlling things -- and He would give these kings to understand that He has a praying people. The question of the rule of this island is always a burning one, disturbing the minds of men and women; one has been through the agitation here from time to time, and agitation as to government is world-wide today. There never has been such a time of disturbance -- unnecessary -- uncalled for, as we say; but God would say to all who are disturbed, whoever they may be, I have people who pray. In the experimental book of Psalms, written by persons who observe things, God alludes to His people as "a few men in number, of small account, and strangers" in the land. "They went from nation to nation, from one

kingdom to another people" -- they were not nationalists, they were pilgrims, "strangers in it".

God would say, I have those people. Now I want to be among those whom He so regards, those He can speak of to the great ones of earth. "Touch not mine anointed ones", He says, "and do my prophets no harm". What a comfort this is when storms rage and waves rise! Abimelech was doing harm to Abraham. God could have sent an angel and rescued Sarah, but no! -- He goes Himself. He goes in a vision. He could get there by this means more quickly and more easily than by an army; He says to Abimelech, You are doing harm to what is Mine. What a comfort that is! It renders us independent of human power: that God can approach a man in authority, and speak to him of "my prophets"; and that is not all. He intimates that Abraham can serve Abimelech, and will do so. He will pray for you, He says. How great a matter this is! And God can so regard any of us, for it applies in principle to all the saints. Here is a man the monarch was damaging, and God says, Release his wife, and he will pray for you. And we today have to do with the whole course of things nationally, socially, commercially, and militarily, but we are not concerned save on account of what belongs to God, that it should not be damaged, so we pray for kings and others, as the word says, "that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty"; also that a way may be made for the testimony, so that there is no interruption, by war, epidemics, or what not, to what God is doing.

So here we find this monarch acting under divine influence and on divine advice. God was successful, if one may so speak, for we find Abimelech amenable to right thoughts, and often kings are more amenable than we imagine. Though God holds them in with bit and bridle, He can find a way to their

hearts, and can appeal to their reason, and in this case can point out to Abimelech that He has a man who will pray for him. One could hardly have greater distinction than to be called attention to in this way.

The book of Job from which we have read is remarkable in relation to the gospel sermons which may be preached from it; indeed, it is intended for that, but also intended to show how a christian, a legal christian, an earthly-minded one, a self-occupied one, a proud one after the flesh, may be turned into a praying man, a priest. God styles Job His servant, and if He commits Himself to a man under that title, He will see him through, so that He may exemplify it. If God regards me as a servant and I fail in it, discipline begins; He will institute discipline if I am deflected. Satan is the instrument here, but he is limited in his dealings with the people of God; he never has full sway.

Then there are Job's three friends, showing the danger of special friendships -- with such, we may get a good deal of mutual flattery. Job became eloquent in speaking about his own attainments and qualities, and these three men had ability to do the same, enlarge on their forefathers, belongings, and so on. This may be seen at any time when people are together with natural affinities of one sort or another -- men of culture and ancestry. How men and women love that kind of thing! Job says, "But now they that are younger than I have me in derision, whose fathers I would have disdained to set with the dogs of my flock. Yea, whereto should the strength of their hands profit me?" Job 30:1, 2. He pours contempt on them now. The band is broken, thank God; for it can do no good.

These common bonds of sympathy with men because of wealth, education, or ancestry are now disrupted, and the quicker the better, wherever they exist. They were more than ordinary men in that

there was something of God there, especially with Job, and God never took His eye off His servant. The book proceeds to show how patiently God pursues this man, till he is thoroughly broken up. "I know that thou canst do everything", Job says; it is a fine conclusion to arrive at -- "and that thou canst be hindered in no thought of thine. Who is he that obscureth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered what I did not understand; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not". He has come to an end of all his pride, all the darkening counsel of his speeches, his words are ended (chapter 42: 2, 3). We may thank God for that. Not that there was nothing of value in his speeches, there was, but they were jewels in a wrong setting. Job could speak of things eloquently and yet not understand what he spoke of. He says further to God, "Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak ... I had heard of thee by the hearing of the ear, but now mine eye seeth thee: Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes". He places himself in the hand of God, a thoroughly self-judged man. What will God make out of him? If God is to have the instrumentalities He needs, there must be the abandonment of all pretension, of all that attaches to one naturally; there must be the getting down to bedrock in self-judgment, if God is to do anything in me and by me. How blessed was "the end of the Lord" in Job's case!

After God had spoken to Job, He says to Eliphaz, "Mine anger is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends; for ye have not spoken rightly of me, like my servant Job". God is here intimating that He is extremely fair in His dealings with His children. Things are graded in His dealings, Job, as a matter of fact, was much more vehement in his denunciation of his friends than they were of him, but God says, "Ye have not spoken rightly of me, like my servant Job". Let us give every one his due --

God is infinitely fair, as I said, and never loses sight of His servant Job. He could work things out and He makes Job a priest. He classifies him by himself and his friends by themselves. They are not lost, but God can say, "my servant Job"; He does not call them His servants. Then He continues, "Take for yourselves seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt-offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you". Now Job is a true servant and is to be regarded as a true priest, and they are to go to him. How different his relation with them now! Not a social coterie, as earlier, but a priestly circle, where prayers are offered, not flattery. Coteries are to be abandoned, so that we may take heavenly ground, and have friends in a true sense, as John says, "Greet the friends by name". So these three men are instructed to take seven bullocks and seven rams to Job, and "Job shall pray for you", God says. He is now a true servant of God; God knows he prays, and that he will pray for these men. What a difference from the time when he poured scorn on them as inferior! They are not lost, they are secured through Job. He is the priest. That is what is going on, and God will bring us into this, that we become benefactors of our enemies, doing good, as Scripture enjoins, to those who persecute us. One would urge the importance of coming into line with this, that we pray for persons whom we have regarded as our enemies. It is the great triumph of christianity as seen in Romans 12.

Finally we have God's great servant Paul. The Lord says to Ananias regarding him, "Behold, he is praying". It is a characteristic word, a word coming from the Lord Himself with peculiar force, for He was a praying Man here below, and when He was praying in a certain place, and ceased, one of His disciples said unto Him, "Lord, teach us to pray".

One would take note of those words, "when he ceased" in Luke 11; it is well to stop when you have unburdened your heart to God, not to meander on and on, and tire the brethren. The longest prayer in Scripture takes only eight minutes to express, and we read that when Solomon "had ended praying", the glory of the Lord filled the house. It was delightful to God. So let us make our words few, when praying publicly, not that we may not pray at length privately, for the Lord "spent the night in prayer to God".

When on one occasion the Lord had ceased praying, one of His disciples said, "Teach us to pray". If we do not know how to pray, the Lord is ready to teach us, so He says, "When ye pray, say, Father, thy name be hallowed; thy kingdom come". He will set you on the way, not that you are to confine yourself to what is said there, but it is furnished as an example. One would have loved to have seen and heard the Lord speaking to God -- what an attitude, what an expression -- what emotions! It is not only the words that are important, but the attitude. So you get standing, kneeling, lifting up holy hands in regard to prayer. It is a service, and it gladdens the heart of God. When Daniel prayed, "the commandment came forth", Gabriel said, and Daniel is addressed as "one greatly beloved". As the Lord Jesus prayed on the mount, the fashion of His countenance became different; in like manner, as we become engaged with God, we are sure to be affected. If God is really engaging my soul it is bound to leave an impress.

So here the Lord tells Ananias that Saul is praying. It is as if the Lord hints that Ananias is a man who prayed too. He appeals, as it were, to a praying man; why should you fear a man who prays? He is doing it now! the Lord says. What force and pungency there would be in those words as addressed to

a man who understood what the Lord said: 'You say, he is a murderer, and would take you to prison, but I say he is praying!' What a difference! And straightway Ananias goes and places his hands on him. You can commit yourself to anyone who is characteristically praying. Heaven has its own way of recommending persons who pray, and if they pray they are no longer self-reliant or independent -- they trust God.

May the Lord bless the word!

HOW LOCAL CONDITIONS ARE IMPROVED

Luke 10:38 - 42; John 11:1, 5, 20 - 28, 39, 40; John 12:1, 2

What is in mind is to show how local conditions may be improved, so that among the people of God divine circumstances in any place may be bettered. David had in mind to make divine circumstances better in his day. He had greatly improved them already according to the early part of the second book of Samuel and the first book of Chronicles, but in 1 Chronicles 17 he proposes to make them still bettor. That is an example for us, for at best in the localities where we are set there is great room for improvement in every instance. God is pleased to go along with what there is, limiting, of course, His forbearance, for there are things He cannot allow, but He goes a long way with His people in their localities, in spite of conditions which are unsuitable to Him.

The addresses to the assemblies recorded in Revelation 2 and 3 show that the Lord takes account of what is favourable and what is not. These addresses were to the intent that there might be improvement. In the last address the Lord counsels persons, who are not at all in accord with His mind, to buy from Him. They were saying in Laodicea that they were rich increased with goods and had need of nothing, but the Lord said they were poor, and blind, and naked. He is ready to give, or even to sell, so that conditions should be better. If they would not accept gift the Lord was prepared to sell. There is no other remedy for these matters but to turn to the Lord. He is ready to give, but if you prefer to buy, He is ready to sell. He counsels that you should buy from Him. There is no gain in going elsewhere; you must come to Him. You may go to this brother or that

brother, which is right up to a point, but if you would be fully furnished with what is necessary you must come to Jesus, and if you are not ready to receive, He will sell, He is ready to give anything that is needed; He is ready to provide white raiment, eye-salve, and gold.

Well, now I take Martha and her village as representative of what I would like to convey. I take Martha to convey the thought of local conditions; It is a village and it is to be improved in Martha. The Lord comes three times to the village, in each of these Martha is seen. Martha received Him into her house the first time. On the first visit the Lord rebuked her, and of course this would be to improve her condition; on the second visit He instructs her, also to improve her condition; and on the third, He comes, and she shows the improvement. He sees the result of His dealings with her, indeed with all the family in Bethany. They were all right in relation to this visit -- Lazarus, Martha, and Mary. The point is really the improvement in the conditions in Bethany, and that largely lay in what the Lord effected in Martha.

Bethany was a locality in which God had something. In each locality God would have something which He can call His own, as in Corinth; "the assembly of God which is in Corinth". He had in that wicked, gentile city that which He could call the assembly of God. In speaking thus, it may be added that we are fitted for the testimony down here, as well as for our eternal portion, according to the counsels of God. If He has set us in a town or city, we are to represent Him there. The heavens represent Him. They declare His glory and the firmament sheweth His handiwork. That is, they display God in that way; He made them for that purpose, and so He prepares us to represent Him in the place He has set us. So in our eternal portion everyone will be in

his right place, and each fitted in relation to the others. We are all to be together, and we are to love one another. Ephesians shows that the saints in a locality have love, not only for the local saints, but for all the saints. God "has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus". A great thought is that we all go up together. Everything is with a purpose and there is not the slightest discrepancy in the result, but there should be something in the way of representation here, and also something that the Lord can come to, happily and freely. The Lord does come -- not corporeally, of course, but in a spiritual way.

Now I take up Martha for this purpose. It is hard to leave out Mary, for they are always seen together. What the Lord says to one He says to both, we may say. They have the same advantage as regards ministry. Martha heard the same things as Mary, but the results are not the same. Mary began to be acceptable to the Lord earlier than Martha. She made a choice -- Mary had chosen the good part. There is no evidence that Martha chose, she had no time, she was taken up with many things. Some are so busy that they do not choose what is divine at all. God also chooses; His sovereignty means that He chooses. He had made up His mind about us beforehand, as we learn in Romans 8; He foreknew us and "whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified" Romans 8:29, 30. In answer to that process the feature that He likes in us is definite action, and among the things He looks for is choice, making a choice. Perhaps some of you here have never thought of that. I do not say a general choice, but a choice in some detail, in some definite

thing. Mary made a choice, and she was sitting down, enjoying and profiting by the thing she selected. It bore in the right direction, and the Lord likes that and commends it.

Well, Martha was cumbered about much serving. I may further say here that, in comparing the two sisters, Martha seems to have been the householder. We are not told the name of the village here: it is called "a certain village"; and Martha was the householder. She was, as it were, the leading brother in the meeting. She was the one that looked after things, and she would receive the Lord. She received Him into her house. Of course the leading brother will receive the Lord; but we have to bear in mind that the Lord is not here personally, so we have to receive Him through the brethren. Every leading brother would professedly make way for the Lord, but Martha did not treat her sister properly, nor did the treat the Lord properly, although she received Him. Our attitude to the Lord may be seen in the way we treat the brethren. She says to Him, "Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me". She implied that the Lord was not right; she rebuked Him. "Dost thou not care?" She is implying that He was negligent. She thought He would say, Mary, get up and do something. So the leading brother may be disappointed that he is not justified when the Lord comes in. The Lord does not come to justify him. He may bring up something that shows he is not just right; in fact, if I am expecting to be justified in anything I am sure to be disappointed. I knew of a brother who expected to be justified when a ministering brother, as we say, would come round, but the Lord disappointed that. It would do one more good to be condemned.

The Lord said, "Martha, Martha". The Lord called her twice; this implies that she had acquired a

certain place in the Lord's mind, she was in His mind for blessing, and something will come in for her good. Her name is down for blessing -- it may be through rebuffs, reproofs, knocks, but the list is there, and her name is on it for blessing. In Matthew 5 the disciples came to Jesus and He began with blessing for certain classes of people. God has blessing in His mind for certain classes of people, so Martha is marked out by being called twice by the Lord. She is coming into great things. The first thing to be noticed here in Luke is "a certain village; and a certain woman named Martha" -- it is the idea of a locality and one responsible in it. The Spirit of God begins with Martha and not Mary.

Well I want to come on to John to show how the betterment came about. The village is never lost sight of. Take the city in which we are, since the time God began to work in it, it has never been lost sight of. God has in His mind every locality in which His people are, and He wants to improve what He has in it; not to improve the town, but to improve what is of Himself in it. That is always what is in God's mind. David is the great example of this -- he expressed to Nathan his desire to improve the divine circumstances here.

Well, John 11 keeps the village in mind, and Martha and Mary, and Lazarus. We do not get Lazarus in Luke, we do get a Lazarus but not this one. He is added in John, because if the circumstances for God in a town are to be improved, a brother and two sisters in it are better than two sisters only. This is a comfort to us in our day. So that if local conditions are to be improved, there will be personal addition; an increase in quantity as well as an increase in quality. What is needed generally is increase in quality. Increase in quantity without increase in quality is a doubtful advantage. We come to John and we find a certain man, Lazarus of

Bethany, is sick. This sickness is not unto death, it is for the glory of God. It is a severe illness, it means death, but it is not unto death, that is, death is not the final end, but resurrection; for resurrection is where the glory of God is seen.

The first thing we get here is, "Now a certain man was sick ... Lazarus of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha". The town is emphasised again. Doubtless what is stated indicates the judicial ways of God with His people. His judicial dealings are always in accord with His love. Discipline is the result of God's love, but, mark you, it was "for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified by it", that this man lay sick.

The next thing I call attention to is verse 5: "Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus". Martha is mentioned first. At the beginning of the chapter Mary is clearly the principal one in the Lord's mind. She is specially drawn attention to. "It was the Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick" (verse 2). She has the chief place among the three. In the three mighty ones mentioned in connection with David, there is one that is greater than the others. Mary is the chief one here; you cannot alter that; but Mary is not my subject, it is Martha. The Lord has something in mind when He mentions Martha first. Mary is spiritual; she is never easily irritated. She is not mentioned in verse 5 except under the heading of sister. It is sometimes a good thing that a sister who is perhaps thought to be spiritual -- and who indeed is spiritual -- is not brought to notice, but Mary will not mind that, for she has plenty of capital. She is not petty, nor irritable because another is more noticed than she.

Now it is said that Jesus loved Martha, and when Jesus came (verse 21), Martha spoke to Him. I go on from that to point out what she needed in the way

of instruction. She is, I may say, not very concerned about doctrine, and yet it is very necessary. Now, sisters -- you will pardon me for saying it -- are not generally interested in doctrine. They often ignore it sad to say, and are not concerned about it. Lydia was very attentive to doctrine. The Lord opened her heart to attend to the things spoken by Paul, and, dear sisters, we all need to attend to the things spoken by Paul. Well now, Martha needed the doctrine and we cannot have good local conditions without good doctrine. When Jesus came, Martha said, "Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died".

The Lord could have kept him from dying, but Lazarus being dead enabled Him to open up what she needed to know. He would teach them much from it all, and, dear brethren and sisters, we are very deficient in teaching. We need to pay heed to the teaching of the apostles, particularly Paul: all the apostles' writings of course, but especially Paul's; Lydia listened to Paul. One from whom we have profited much said, 'Do not forget John; but cleave to Paul'. Paul had the heavenly side of the truth, and he gives us the assembly.

Martha said, "But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee", verse 22. That is, she knew He was a godly Man -- perhaps, in her view, even more than Man; and she believed God could do for Him what He asked; but we shall never get on in our souls unless we have a clear grasp of the deity of our Lord. From this point of view Jesus needs not to ask, for He can do all Himself, and so He says to her, "Thy brother shall rise again". How much could be put into that! She says, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection in the last day". She was an orthodox Jewess, believing in a general resurrection, and some of us are like that, and thus practically on Jewish ground.

We may speak of what the brethren hold -- which just means that you have an orthodox creed of your own. Jesus says, "Thy brother shall rise again", and then He brings out that marvellous truth: "I am the resurrection and the life". I am. What a word that was! Are we ready for the truth about the Son of God -- ready for something fresh -- ready to take in things now in a new and living way, our souls open for the truth about Christ? so that if a neighbour asks what you are going on with, you can say something definite and living that you have learnt about Christ. The Lord has in mind a betterment of conditions in the locality, so He makes this marvellous statement. Are we ready to take in something great now? He says, "I am the resurrection and the life". Martha may have heard great things, but evidently she had not heard this before. The Lord works in a wonderful way. He allowed her brother to enter into death in order to open up to her what she needed. Further it says, "He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die". Put into the language of the first epistle to the Thessalonians that word just means what we have in chapter 4: 16: "The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first". Then the further statement in John 11 that "whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die", means what 1 Thessalonians 4:17 teaches us, "we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord". That is what happens when the Lord comes. Those that live shall be changed. As the apostle writes to the Roman believers, "He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by

his Spirit that dwelleth in you". Romans 8:11. Now, is Martha ready for all this? Are we ready for it?

Fifty years ago God brought up the great subject of eternal life. Of course, it had been taught from the outset, for it is, and ever will be, an outstanding feature of the truth. It is through it we have the victory. Here the Lord says, "I am the resurrection and the life". The great truth is that He is the resurrection and the life. The opposers said that eternal life was a person and thus beclouded the truth, but in emphasising this great truth of eternal life, we are to make clear that it does not affect the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ it is not to affect in our minds the truth as to His deity. Scripture says, "He is the true God and eternal life". He is it as Man. He is the eternal life but He is more, He is the true God. So He says to Martha "Believest thou this?" Just to make it a creed is to impair the truth. A living Person is it. How little we really believe! I often challenge myself before the Lord, as to whether I really believe the great facts of christianity. Do I really believe? Let us challenge ourselves. Do I really believe these great realities? Therein is the victory! No local conditions -- political, social, or otherwise -- can overcome me if I believe these things. Martha says, "Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world". That is her faith, but why did she not wait for more? The Lord had not stopped. He will not break off as long as we are attentive. Still, she had taken in much of the great things the Lord had spoken to her. By going to Mary she shows clearly that her sister had a distinctive place with her.

So she calls Mary, and Mary went out and came where Jesus was. The Lord then commands the stone to be rolled away, and Martha said, "Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days". Then the Lord said to her, "Said I not unto

thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?" When the stone had been rolled back Jesus "cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth". She saw the loved one come forth. Think of that, that she should really see the glory! He came out in answer to the power of the voice of Christ, saying, "Lazarus, come forth". Think of the glory involved! What a local brother he will be, and what a local sister Martha will be after such a sight!

That is all I have to say, except to point out that the Lord comes again to Bethany, and things in the family all fit. "Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him. Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment" (Chapter 12: 1 - 3). There is now a great change -- a great improvement in the state of things. Indeed the scene is perfect from the divine point of view, except for Judas, who lifts up his voice against Mary. There is just the one jarring note, as Judas interrupts: "Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him, Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?" And as Judas criticises Mary, we can understand how Martha would say, I am sorry I criticised Mary. How she would feel ashamed to think how she criticised Mary; she would own that Mary had been right all along. Thus, when Jesus came six days before the passover to Bethany, the conditions in the place were most pleasing to Him. Certainly, we may assume the Lord never enjoyed Bethany better before, and it can only be by

improving conditions that there can be happy circumstances for God to come in. Chapter 12 shows that His object was reached; the glory shone, and they were all in the good of it, and they know what to do; Martha served; Lazarus sat at table with Jesus; and Mary anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped His feet with her hair.

AMENABILITY TO THE WILL OF GOD

2 Kings 2:19 - 22; 2 Kings 6:5 - 7; 2 Kings 4:38 - 41

It is the word "cast" in these scriptures that led me to read them, to link them together -- the salt cast into the source of the waters, the stick cast into the Jordan, and the meal cast into the pot of pottage, alluding evidently to the amenability of instruments of correction and adjustment to the will of another -- to the will of God.

Whatever is "cast" is amenable to the action or will of another. The best example, perhaps, which we have of this is in Exodus 15, where Israel having crossed the sea, could not, as thirsty, drink of the waters of Marah -- they were bitter, brackish waters, meaning that death is bitter. The Lord "tasted" death. He knows its bitterness, and if we are to be brought into accord with Him in our constitutional fibre there is to be the tasting of what He tasted -- the tasting of death. So it is said, "Jehovah shewed him [Moses] wood", Exodus 15:25. Moses had to be shown it, and he cast it into the waters, alluding obviously to the amenableness of Christ to the will of Another. It is a great principle introduced by Christ, which is to pervade the people of God -- that we are to be amenable to the will of another; another's will is to be submitted to. We are not to be self-willed, for self-willed persons are useless, or worse, in the things of God. Christ was amenable to the divine will -- "not my will". He said, "but thine", namely, the Father's will. That is the great principle which the Lord exemplified and stressed; it has come down to us, and aside from it there is no possibility of anyone having part in the testimony of God, or in the assembly. Self-will is abominable to God; it is as iniquity and idolatry (1 Samuel 15:23).

Israel had to learn at the very outset of entering the wilderness, that if Christ tasted death in all its bitterness, they were not to be immune; we cannot be like Him save on that line. Moses casts in the wood. The passage does not say that God had told him to do that, but he did it. The people had believed in the Lord and in His servant Moses. That is, if the principle divinely set up is to be carried down, those in the lead are to exemplify it. Moses brought out the thought of what appears to be impossible to us, that is, the tasting of death here, for in truth it is that. Death is death, but the believer's taste is altered. The casting in of the wood conveyed something that is to be received into the soul, the principle that I am amenable to the will of another -- the will of God, and it may be expressed through the brethren. If adjustment is to take place I must be amenable to the will of God, whether directly or through the saints. So that as the waters became sweet and Israel drank, there was a statute and an ordinance made for them; the principle was legalised, so that it is imperative, and no longer optional. Moses casts the wood into the waters and there is an immediate change.

I wish to carry the thought to the second book of Kings; second books always bring in subsequent truth to what has been asserted. Elijah comes into the second book; he stamps the first book from chapter 17 onwards. One principle which comes into the first book of Kings is what a man is, and it is carried into the second book. We do not know who Elijah's father was, nor any of his relatives; we are only told that he was of the inhabitants of Gilead; that is all! It was no question of his ancestry or history or any official status, but of what the man was. He says to Ahab, "There shall not be dew nor rain these years, except by my word". What a man is, is of great importance today. In connection with

Elijah, one man falls (2 Kings 1:2). The official man fell, the king of Israel fell through a lattice; that is the position now. Great Babylon is fallen. The spiritual understand that; God has finished with the whole public system. Then another man goes up to heaven. The days were coming when Elijah must be received up into heaven. This foreshadows the present time. "It came to pass when Jehovah would take up Elijah into the heavens by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal", 2 Kings 2:1. As one man fell, another man is taken up by God into heaven. Christ has been taken up, we know. He has been received into heaven, received up in glory: and the time is come for the assembly to be translated too. So that it is falling on the one hand, and ascending on the other. That is the position of this book.

Elisha represents what is in this book in power. He understands he could not carry on at all without that -- a double portion of the spirit of Elijah is his request; nothing less. That is what is needed, for we must have a standard that is according to God. We are not to compare ourselves with ourselves, that is deterioration, we must have the divine standard. Elisha asks for a double portion of Elijah's spirit. We are enjoined to ask. The Lord says, "How much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke 11:13. You see the need, and the standard that God has set, and you do not want to be, at least in principle, anything below that. The point is to get the idea of ascension -- going up! The king of Israel had fallen -- he had no option. Elijah said to Elisha, "If thou see me when I am taken from thee", 2 Kings 2:10, and the word to the disciples was, "This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven". Acts 1:11. The significance of His going

up is brought down to us by the Spirit, and we are to understand it. Elisha got what he asked for, and hence the great power which marked his ministry.

My first point now is the passage in the second chapter where the land is described as barren (2 Kings 2:19). The situation of the city is good, but that in itself does not suffice. The land is barren, and the waters naught. It looks as if the men said We are just resigned to these sorrowful conditions. What can the man of God do? First, they have to provide a new cruse. If there is to be anything done at all in a needy locality, the brethren there must be brought into it. Do not, therefore, settle down and fold your arms and say, This is the position, nothing can be done. Bring a new cruse and put salt therein. No old vessels, no old methods, it is the new divine way that is effective. Many brethren are using old ones, but we are in a dispensation which is characterised by things being new, it is stamped with the word new -- newness of life newness of spirit, the renewing of the mind, the new man and so on. I am not to be taken up with the things of the day (not that I ignore them), my mind is to be applied to the things of God. The principle of what is new must stamp the position; particularly the manner of serving God is to be different. Possibly the men at Jericho had never before had anything like this suggested to them. It is a new thing that is needed here, the old ways will not do at all. They were to put salt into the cruse -- not salt that had "lost its savour", but what would make others savoury. We ourselves are to be new in principle.

Elisha goes forth to the source of the waters and casts the salt in there. That is, it is the will of another -- Elisha's will, and he is representative of God. This matter must come under the power and will of the Spirit of God. It is no patent medicine, it is the source that is wrong, and it is corrected. Every

one of us has to observe this principle -- to deal with sin as it works at the root. It is needful to go back habitually as far as we can in our spiritual history, and see how things have been from the outset. In this way we maintain a healthy state before God; we maintain as a state the mind of the Spirit, which is life and peace. The woman in Luke 13 had been bound for eighteen years, she had ceased to be of any use in the service of God. The Lord in healing her referred to the evil from the outset. You may say our early days were much brighter, but what has happened if things are not what they used to be? Elisha settles the matter here. He says it is the source of the matter that is wrong. Thus what is new is employed, involving spiritual power, and the waters are healed. We have to get at the root of matters -- why is there so much barrenness? The remedy is in the recognition of the will of Another and getting at the source of things. The three passages I read furnish a thread which runs through this book, and, in fact, runs through the history of the testimony.

The next point is in chapter 6. It is a question of service; but first, service carried on with borrowed things. The brothers that are engaged in it are sons of the prophets, very uncertain sometimes, but here they make a good suggestion, not like the others who made suggestion to Elisha that misled him (chapter 2: 15 - 18). Here Elisha accepts what is said, "the place where we dwell before thee is too strait for us. Let us go, we pray thee, to the Jordan, and take thence every man a beam, and let us make us a place there, where we may dwell", 2 Kings 6:2. They did not want to move without the prophet, they were making a suggestion which was commendable, and be answered, "Go". They were not acting lawlessly. There is no thought of getting rid of the prophet, so one says, "Consent, I pray thee, to go with thy servants".

They would have him with them, and he said, "I will go". This is a happy state of things, so far, there is no thought of self-will. It is a suggestion which arose out of the sense of limitation, and they move in the right direction, they move towards death -- towards Jordan. The prophet agrees to go, it is not on his own initiative, but on theirs. Every spiritual brother, however distinguished he may be, will gladly take on a spiritual suggestion; so Elisha went with them.

When they come to the Jordan they cut down wood. If brethren are dwelling in the vicinity of Jordan and are accepting death in a general way, it is well to let them proceed, on right lines of course. So they cut down wood, but presently the axe-head falls into the water. Now the underlying condition has been exposed. I am now speaking of what interferes with the testimony in a place, although marked generally by exercise, as we say, and energy. In this instance the Spirit of God would bring out the defect that was there, so as a man was felling a beam, the axe-head fell into the water. The instrument was not properly put together; how could it be? It was borrowed. The suggestion is, that the worker is the handle, and the borrowed thing is the axe-head or "iron". They do not fit, evidently the handle was too small. You are dealing with something that is greater than you are, as was said, "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" Job 38:2.

The axe-head was iron. It fell into the water and sank. This brought out the fact that it was borrowed; that is, such workers as these sons of the prophets represent are not in the habit of getting things from the Lord directly. The man who used the instrument evidently did not tell the prophet before that it was borrowed. The prophet did not need to borrow, he had plenty. He used the mantle of Elijah to cross

the river, but he did not use it as Elijah did. It is well enough to use what you get from another, but use it as it should be used by you. Are you equal to the thing? Elisha was equal to what he used; in using Elijah's mantle he said, "Where is Jehovah, the God of Elijah?" and divided the Jordan. Elijah had "wrapped it together" and smitten the waters, not calling on Jehovah; Elisha did not wrap it together, but smote the waters, saying, "Where is Jehovah, the God of Elijah?" Ministry is given to be used intelligently, according to our measure, as Elisha did with Elijah's mantle. This man does not say, Where is the God of the man whose axe-head I am using, and hence the great sorrow. He says, "Alas, master, and it was borrowed!" He was using the axe-head as if it were his own, but it was not, and now he owns this. The preventive is that I am amenable to the will of another, to the will of God, that is my lesson in all this.

Elisha cut down a stick -- it is a smaller thought: they were felling beams. We do not want to be too big in our minds. "Who hath despised the day of small things?" The Lord does not. He is with us as we work in a seemly way, but this brother working with borrowed tools is not to be thrown aside; God is going to make him better. The man acknowledges the fact of the borrowed tool and Elisha says, "Where fell it?" -- and he showed him the place. You have to put your finger on the thing; you have not spoken of this matter, and God is bringing it to light. The iron went to the bottom. Elisha "cut down a stick, and cast it in thither; and the iron did swim". How impressive and assuring that was! This brother was felling a beam; a brother standing by might rightly say, Perhaps you were going beyond your measure. We are to work according to our measure, "as God has dealt to each a measure of faith". Now as the result of Elisha's service, the iron is swimming;

it is superior to the current, there is a miracle, it is the power of God. It may be there is a brother in this town needing to be saved from the current of things. Many a man is superior to the religious current who is not free from the business current, and is carried along in this sense with the world. This axe-head was brought up from the depths of Jordan by the power of God; typically it is life from among the dead. We see here that God comes in when everything seems lost. Now we are going to get service on the principle of life, and not on borrowed principles.

In chapter 4 we have the sons of the prophets, but there is a dearth in the land. Elisha goes to Gilgal, which is more than Jordan. Gilgal is where Jordan is understood. It is not simply that we talk of the abolition of death, but it is understood. Elisha had been there before in the company of Elijah. It is in the company of Christ that we truly learn what a thing is. Now there is dearth, and he is concerned about food -- food for the sons of the prophets. Food for the brethren must be provided. The Lord says, "Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?" Luke 12:42. How much the Lord thinks of a person who feeds His people! Elisha says, "Set on the great pot, and seethe pottage for the sons of the prophets", 2 Kings 4:38. He is concerned about that. The sons of the prophets point to a generation that has come down from spiritual men. They may be spiritual or they may not be, they have to be watched. Elisha was concerned that they should be fed, so he directs his servant to "set on the great pot", and one went into the field to gather herbs, we are told, and he gathered wild gourds. If we are to have pure, wholesome food we must not be speculative in our ministry; and, as hearing, we must prove all things

and hold fast what is good. Here they did not know what the things gathered and put into the pot were; but they were "wild colocynths". Many such things are current, things given out which have not been tested by the Scriptures. You may say, That is nice, I have never heard it before, but it may not be right, it has not been tested out. We are to be marked by love of the truth. This man "found a wild vine, and gathered from it his lap full of wild colocynths, and came and shred them into the pot of pottage". That is not what is marked by intelligence and love of the truth. What was furnished was "wild". It was poisonous and no one knew, so the error was very serious, but fortunately someone cried out that there was "death in the pot".

They cried, "Man of God, there is death in the pot". They had recourse to the right man. Elisha represents the Spirit of Christ in these matters. It was he who suggested that the food should be there, but someone went out into the field and gathered a lapful of something poisonous which he shred into the pot. You can see that it was an error, but he was not under control. However, in the presence of the danger they knew where to turn. This is most important. They address Elisha as "Man of God". How great the advantage in such circumstances if there is one! Nothing is said to the offender, but to Elisha, the right man, as I said, the man who knew what to do. The poison is there, and the poison must be dealt with. It is more difficult to deal with the poison than with the man who introduces it; it is easier to deal with a teacher than with his false teaching -- the teaching soon spreads. Elisha met the evil here by meal. It was brought. In such cases the brethren are brought into the thing. In chapter 2, as we have seen, the people supplied the salt. Those responsible are to have something in such difficulties. Here Elisha says "Bring meal" -- setting forth the

Lord Jesus in His perfect humanity. How subject He was! Indeed we may see that the Lord had recourse to the Scriptures, and in infinite accuracy, bases what He was saying at times on the Scriptures, although He was the Author of them. He wrote them by the Spirit, He would lead the way for us, and show how the Scriptures are to govern all that is presented as food or instruction. "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them", Isaiah 8:20. So that the meal would be the Lord Himself, what He is in character as Man. Christ must be introduced according to what He is personally and characteristically -- so that the saints should have wholesome food. The meal cast into the pot brings in the thought of being amenable to the will of another; it is a type of Christ. When the meal was introduced, they poured out and "there was no harm in the pot".

I have ventured to bring these three points before you, as applying to local positions, and there is hardly a locality that they do not refer to. Generally speaking, the soil is extremely hard everywhere and becoming harder. The way consequent difficulties are to be met is by submission, the principle of yielding to the will of another -- and we shall see results. The hardness of the soil will give way; the ministers and the ministry will grow better, and the food will be produced which will build up our constitutions for those exigencies with which we have to contend.

ENERGY AND INTELLIGENCE ATTENDING THE INCARNATION

Luke 2:8 - 38

J.T. I have in mind that we might dwell a little together on the energy and intelligence that attended the incoming of Christ into this scene, and His introduction in the temple. Luke makes much of order, but he associates energy with order in the things of God, and particularly in this chapter. It is a question of the testimony of God. The first chapter links on with 1 Chronicles, this book itself beginning with Adam, and Luke carries the thread of the testimony forward to Paul imprisoned in Rome. The testimony is thus seen among the gentiles in Rome, where great energy marked it; Paul, though a prisoner, was marked by peculiar energy in his writings and speakings.

We have here first of all, the shepherds abiding without, keeping watch by night over their flock; they are exposed to the elements as in their service. Then we have, in verse 9, "lo, an angel of the Lord was there by them", and we get his announcement; then, in verse 13, "suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host ..." and in result, the shepherds go to Bethlehem in haste. Then we find great spiritual activity in Simeon and Anna, particularly the latter. It is as if the Spirit of God put this down in the beginning of the history of Christ here in testimony, to indicate what was to go through, namely, energy allied with spiritual intelligence.

The shepherdly spirit and principle seen here is carried down from the earliest days in testimony. Abel, Jacob, Moses, and David, great leaders in the testimony, were all marked by this spirit; now we have come on to the period of the great Shepherd of the sheep, reminding us of what belongs to the

shepherd particularly in our dispensation. Peter is charged to shepherd the sheep, there is always something of that to be done, however few the sheep. Eliab made little of such activity in David: "with whom hast thou left those few sheep in the wilderness", he inquires of him. He had left them with a keeper, and he could tell Saul how he risked his life to save a lamb. He was marked by a shepherd spirit, spiritually too, feeding and leading Israel as a flock with integrity and skilfulness. So here the shepherds are abiding without, keeping their flock -- they were not hirelings. The lesson for us is to take care of the flock night and day.

W.F. We must be prepared to make sacrifice.

J.T. Shepherds have been persecuted from the outset. Abel was, and shepherds were held in abomination by the Egyptians -- representing the world. People speak well of you if you look after your own affairs, but love looks after the affairs of others.

J.G. So, because of this, the shepherds get the communications.

J.T. "An angel of the Lord was there by them", which we can count upon -- a heavenly visitant. In caring for the Lord's interests, however small or obscure, we can count on personal touches from heaven. Heaven took notice of the shepherds, and the glory of the Lord shone around them. They were greatly favoured. Take a place like this, marked by darkness, even as we read in Matthew, the people sitting in darkness and there light springs up. The angel comes and indicates that the shepherds are known in heaven, they talk about them up there, and the glory shines around. Heaven's interest is remarkable. It all furnishes a suggestion of what was in the mind of God; unselfishness is needed in watching His interests. The bridegroom in Canticles presented himself as affected by night conditions.

"My head is filled with dew, my locks with the drops of the night". He was suffering. Jacob said the frost consumed him by night, and if we do the work of a shepherd rightly we shall suffer.

Ques. Why is there such a communication to shepherds?

J.T. Attention is called to that service as being honoured in heaven. It is to remind us that however obscure the manner in which we carry it on may be, heaven's eye is upon us. The wording in verse 9 is striking, "an angel of the Lord was there by them", as if they were in mind. Paul could say, "an angel ... stood by me", also, "the Lord stood with me". So, too, when Gideon was threshing wheat, an angel sat over against the place, as if to honour him in what he was doing. Heaven takes account of whatever we are seeking to do to please God. Here, they were doing the thing well. Whatever we do, let us do it heartily. The shepherd thought was very pronounced in the early testimony. Abel was the first shepherd, and the thought is carried right through. The Lord Himself is the great Shepherd, who knows His sheep, and they Him, "as the Father knows me and I know the Father". The thought is carried up to the highest level spiritually, hence its importance.

F.I. "Abiding without" would be outside of all connected with the organisations of men.

J.T. As there outside the shepherds are illuminated. "Fear not, for behold, I announce to you glad tidings of great joy ..." There is the wonderful announcement of Christ's birth, and then "suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host"; they come in, in relation to the angel. The angel is thus honoured, he is serving. The idea of an angel is usually one who is representative of heaven, of God or Christ -- a messenger. The link is now with him, he is serving. So there is a great increase of heaven's interest, a multitude called heavenly, not

now simply angels, though linked up with an angel. The brother who communicates the truth is enlarged in the truth. The shepherds are honoured and now the angel is honoured; the heavenly influence is increased. "Glory to God in the highest". It is a celebration to God, and then, "on earth peace, good pleasure in men"; there is the ever-widening effect of divine intervention, but all linked on with the lowly obscure circumstances and conditions that pleased heaven. We get enlargement on these lines. In Revelation we cannot number the hosts who celebrate the Lamb. So, however few we are today, we are in touch with heaven, and with all God has on earth, too. Thus isolation becomes abolished in the presence of spiritual power.

W.F. It was very establishing for those shepherds to realise there was such a number to execute the work of heaven.

J.T. What a message they received! "Glad tidings of great joy, which shall be to all the people". It is going to spread, and spread, and spread, but it is announced to them. The heavenly host formed a chorus, linking on with the messenger of the glad tidings, showing how he is honoured, and thus the praise of God began. Luke has that in mind.

J.G. This is the Seed of the woman coming to light.

J.T. God was dishonoured and His glory taken away, but here is One who will glorify Him. He has got man back for His pleasure. The angels are singing about men -- God's good pleasure in them.

F.I. The isolation the shepherds were in was broken first by the angel, then by the multitude.

J.T. This is written for us, we need to be brought into it. Heaven is aglow, there is no change or waning there as to Christ. Whether it is the accomplishment of God's purpose, or joy over a sinner that repenteth, we are to be drawn into that. We are

apt to be lethargic, not seeing much doing, whereas there is a lot doing, and we are to be drawn into heaven's feelings. Heaven in this sense is not a great distance away. The angel "was there by" the shepherds, and "suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host".

Rem. The angels set the shepherds in movement.

J.T. That is another good thought, mutual communications in a locality. "Let us make our way ... as far as Bethlehem", let us share in this energy, they, as it were, say. They are quite intelligent as to what has happened -- "which the Lord has made known to us"; they connect everything with the Lord who is over all. This mutual side is important; we may get together and have a word over the Scriptures, but "let us" is a good resultant word. It is one of the leading phrases of Hebrews. "Let us make our way ... as far as Bethlehem". In the light of what God is doing, let us do something. They get light to move and they get it verified. Whatever they did with the sheep, we have to leave; if they were like David, they would leave someone with the sheep. If you go to a conference, you do not close down locally! They came with haste, they had to find their way, but they found what the angel had intimated. They knew what David's city meant; they were, we may say, spiritual men.

P.W. They display great diligence. So Mary went into the hill country with haste.

J.T. Yes, you look for intelligent energy. That was a good meeting Mary and Elizabeth had! We have another beautiful touch there which Luke affords. The unborn babe is affected by the voice of the salutation of the mother of the Lord. What delicacy of organism is portrayed! It is linked with chapter 8 where virtue goes out of the Lord and heals the woman. "The body is of Christ". The assembly

as the body of Christ is an organism. Mary, kept these things and pondered them in her heart, we are told here. "And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all things which they had heard and seen, as it had been said to them". You are struck by the beautiful intelligence which marked them and the accuracy of everything, and how the praises of God proceed, the shepherds glorifying God in verification of the truth.

When you come to Simeon, he is called "a man in Jerusalem", and it says, "the Holy Spirit was upon him". The Spirit is connected with this man three times in the passage. A true priest is brought in now and we are told what he is occupied with. There is need of a priest, as the Lord is there Himself: need now not only of a father's and mother's handling, but of priestly handling. Luke stresses that side, and so gives us this beautiful example of priestly intelligence. Hence, as was said, the Spirit is mentioned three times in connection with this man. He "came in the Spirit into the temple", meaning that he came in, in the power of the Spirit, affected by the Spirit. First we have Mary's sobriety and her intelligent rumination over things, which results in building up a constitution in intelligence, and then Simeon actuated by the Spirit. With the Babe in his arms, he can speak of Him in His particular relation with the gentiles: "a light for revelation of the Gentiles and the glory of thy people Israel". He sees that the gentiles are to be unveiled, to be brought out of darkness into the view of God. What remarkable intelligence! The gentiles are to be first in the mind of God from His point of view.

F.I. So the handling of Christ in this priestly way enables him to take up service in relation to God.

J.T. Yes, in keeping with what preceded. First we have the praise of angels, then the shepherds, and now Simeon, followed by Anna. This incident as to

Simeon shows how we are to be in the assembly where the Lord is to be handled; that is, how we regard Him in our mind. "This do in remembrance of me" or 'for the calling of me to mind'. It is the place He has in our minds. He is also to be regarded in all His offices in the assembly, every office is to have a recognition there. His affection for the saints and His mediatorial services have place. It is how you handle Him, so to speak, in mind and affection. Having Him there, the light shines. It says "as the parents brought in the child Jesus ... he received him into his arms". It is in taking the Child up as a priest would and could, that the light comes into his soul about Christ. He begins with the revelation of the gentiles. It is not his own thought, it is prophetic, it is God's thought. Simeon is divinely illuminated. The presence and position of the Child is the explanation of this; the light of God shines there. The idea is how Christ is held. If you misuse the Lord your mind is not right, it is defiled, warped. There is a condition there the reverse of priestly, and light will not stream in. Simeon in a sense got off Jewish ground, he makes provision for Israel, but puts them second. Luke had in view Paul's doctrine coming in, and the place the gentiles had in the mind of God.

P.W. You are ready to "depart" if you hold Christ in this way.

J.T. Simeon is acting according to the mind of God, he was told by God that he would have to die; "according to thy word", he says. He is beautifully subject, being in the light of the mind of God as to Christ and as to himself. If Christ has come in, you can afford to go. The "Lord's Christ" is the One who does everything for God, and you can depart happily in the light of that.

F.I. Having seen God's salvation brought in, he can go out.

J.T. It is a thought that should be with us. We would not like to leave unless there was provision to carry on. Not like Hezekiah, who said, "For there shall be peace and truth in my days". So, if young men and women are coming on, the old brethren can depart in peace. Paul desired to remain on account of the saints, he saw he was needed.

J.G. Moses wanted to see another leader follow him.

J.T. The man who had the Spirit -- that is the idea; it is a very important matter. The Spirit of God in continuing this narrative begins the book of Acts with an allusion to the "things which Jesus began both to do and to teach".

Then you have Anna in this chapter -- the sisterly side -- a woman spoken of with great distinction, first referred to in her early life, then in her womanhood, and now in advanced years. Like Phoebe, she is mentioned with distinction, so too Lydia. There is no relaxing with Anna, she is carrying on, "she coming up the same hour gave praise to the Lord, and spoke of him to all those who waited for redemption in Jerusalem". She provides the great answer to Romans 12:1. Her body is presented a living sacrifice. She is held honourably in the eye of the Spirit from the very outset. She is a great example for sisters, as Simeon is for brothers; both are examples, of course, for all of us. She is called a prophetess. Simeon held Christ in his arms; Anna speaks of Him to individuals, she is evangelical.

EARLY COLLECTIVE MOVEMENTS

Acts 1:14, 2: 1 - 4, 41 - 47

These scriptures are read in order that we might dwell upon the collective movements of the saints seen in the beginning of our dispensation. The result of the Lord's work in the saints is seen in their outlook, attitude, and movements, as left to themselves when the Lord ascended. It is touching to contemplate the Lord as having said certain things to the disciples according to this account and then being taken up. "When he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight". It is not presented as if it were His own action. The Lord must have felt keenly the incident of His being taken away from the disciples.

No one has keener feelings than the Lord, and, we are told here, He was taken up from them and a cloud received Him out of their sight. He would look upon them with the greatest affection, "I will not leave you orphans". He had said to them, and now they were for the moment left, but everyone did not go to his own home as on a certain occasion during His ministry. These disciples loved Jesus, their hearts had become attached to Him; the Lord could see they loved Him, just as He could when Peter, in his final appeal in John 21, said, "Thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee". That is, there was something the Lord could take account of with Peter, something objective which witnessed to his love. Let no one speak of loving Christ unless there is some sign of it that the Lord at least can see.

So here they gaze after Him, and two men in white appear and say, "Why do ye stand looking into heaven?" There seemed a good reason for it,

just as when Mary gazed into the sepulchre, there seemed a good reason, but in each case it was a misguided look. Mary needed adjustment, and the disciples did here. Christ had been removed out of their sight, it was a fixed matter, so that it was useless to continue to look, as if He could be seen still with their natural eyes; they have now to learn to look otherwise. The two men adjusted them and we are always being adjusted if amenable; many are not amenable. So the disciples returned to Jerusalem; the two men did not direct them to do that, but they did it, and they did what was right; they were moved by right instincts. They return from the mount of Olives, not now to their own homes, but they go up to the upper room where were staying the apostles and others.

These facts, presented in this chapter, are of great moment if understood as bearing on the position today. Mere religious instinct does not lead to the upper room; something more showy and on a human level is demanded. Nor does it lead to such society as we find in the upper room; those who were lovers of Jesus, subject to Him and representative of Him, were there. If you had introduced modernism there, those men would have repelled and repudiated it with indignation, there was no room for it. Today alas! the schools and seminaries are full of it and other such things, but if any, or all of the elements that the people of God are now darkened by had been introduced there, they would have been rejected with authority. These men are brought forward for our example that we, as christians, might move in correspondence with them. Earlier the Lord had presented Himself to them. They had loved Him, but He would cause them to love Him more. He "presented himself living", Scripture says. In Canticles, the bridegroom is introduced as "shewing himself through the lattice", the marginal reading

is 'flourishing himself', which no doubt gives the idea. If I love the Lord, He would seek that I should love Him more and more. He would present Himself in such a way as to attract me, hence in Acts 1, He presented Himself living, and "being assembled with them", spoke to them of the Spirit of God. They had the opportunity of hearing the Lord speak of another divine Person; indeed, He spoke of the Father, and of the Spirit as associated with them. They could not possibly be in a position of greater advantage than they were then, the Lord being "assembled with them". What an opportunity they had of hearing one divine Person speak of the other holy Persons of the Trinity! We know but little of what it is to be assembled as having Christ with us.

I mention all this to lead up to the collective thought. He was aiming at that, and so now; He would lead us into the understanding of the assembly and how He is to be known in it, and how we are to serve in it. Current religion gives no instruction in these matters, but rather the opposite. As the Lord assembled with His own, and spoke of the Father, and of the Holy Spirit, what feelings, what an atmosphere would pervade that holy gathering! They would be enriched, they would be filled with the holy atmosphere, occasioned by the presence of the Son of God.

They enquire of Him (verse 6), "Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" If Simeon (Luke 2), had overheard this he might have informed them that Israel was not first now! In the mind of God, Jesus was to be a light for the revelation of the gentiles, they being mentioned first. The Lord does not enlighten them as to times and seasons. "It is not for you", He says, "to know the times or the seasons ..." Why did they not speak about the assembly? The Lord could say, 'Do you not recall what Simeon said -- that Israel comes

second?' We should understand the light that governs the position, and all questions should be in accord with that. The times and seasons "the Father hath put in his own power": that is a very important word. "To us there is one God, the Father, of whom all things". The Godhead is there, and all reserves are with Him. The Son and the Holy Spirit, to effect the divine purpose, have taken positions involving limitations (but, of course, retaining their part in abstract Deity), the Father, according to the economy into which the three divine Persons have come, being regarded in Scripture as the one God, (1 Corinthians 8:6; see also Mark 13:32). As to ourselves, there is plenty to know, but let us not attempt to go beyond what is revealed. There are those who intrude into what is not seen, worshipping angels and so on. The Spirit of God sternly condemns that. Let us ever remember that we are creatures, and as such, limited. The Lord tells them what they needed to know, saying, "Ye will receive power, the Holy Spirit having come upon you, and ye shall be my witnesses ... to the end of the earth"; so that their work is laid out, and there was plenty to do, and so it is today. The Lord marked out a large field for them, and, as the Holy Spirit came, they would receive power to enter upon it. There is today scope enough for all, and power too as we are dependent on God in the work. So in John 4 the Lord says, "Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are already white to harvest". Although it is a dark day, the field is wide, and the harvest white and plentiful. As long as the dispensation lasts this is true. Other men laboured, and we enter into their labours; let us then be lowly, but zealous in the work, and God will continue to bless us. Our labour shall not be in vain in the Lord.

The Lord was instilling a right outlook into the minds of those whom He was leaving. We cannot but feel He was loth to go, but it was needful; He

was taken up, and they were left here with these thoughts. "And having said these things he was taken up, they beholding him ..." They were intent, their hearts were with Him. All was intended to affect their feelings and understandings, and who can say what were His as He was carried up? There they were -- orphans -- yet surely with a sense that they would be taken care of, that they would experience fatherly care. Did they remember His promise (John 14), they would know that they would not remain orphans. As they were gazing upward, two men in white stood by them and instructed them, and now what are they to do? If Christ moves, what are you to do next? If you get additional light, or if something comes home powerfully to you, there must be a change of outlook, a movement governed by it; so we find they did not go to their own home. Jesus had gone up from the mount of Olives, and these men came back with the idea of moral elevation. They go to Jerusalem to the upper room -- where all these rich and holy thoughts the Lord had conveyed to them in the power of the Spirit would be cherished. And we are told who were there. There was no society like these men and women; the place was the home provisionally of the lovers of Christ, where His rights were maintained.

So we have the collective idea now, they move together. "These gave themselves all with one accord to continual prayer, with several women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren". There are care meetings held with sisters absent, and yet they are not absent in one sense, for it is their matter, and they should ask their husbands about things if they are to pray intelligently. But here it was "with the women"; and prayer marks the company. Of old, prayer was valued as in our dispensation, so much so, that when Solomon prayed, as he ceased, the glory filled the house (2 Chronicles 7:1). God was

so pleased with it that there was no room even for the priests. It is to remind us of the importance of prayer.

When Daniel prayed, Gabriel said, "At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved ..." What a thing to have the sense as praying for divine interests, that one is greatly beloved! Heaven moves towards him and sends one of its most distinguished messengers to Daniel. And what a message he brought! God has fixed limits to all we may be enduring, and He shows Daniel the end for Israel. "Seventy weeks are determined", Gabriel says: the complete accomplishment of God's thoughts comes in after the prayer (Daniel 9:24). So we must value the prayer meeting, and give plenty of scope for it. The women were in the upper room, and the brothers not silent. It is a very pitiable thing if brethren come together for prayer and do not pray. Here heaven's notables were present. There is so much to be prayed for, and one is always concerned in a prayer meeting that nothing should be omitted. All the interests of Christ should be covered, and God would fill the place with glory. He will make us joyful in His house of prayer. There is great restfulness and assurance where, in faith, brethren lay their burdens before the Lord. He gives a sense of having taken them all on, and that He will do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us. We often speak of the Spirit in a theoretical way, but it is the Spirit that we have experienced as having been with us constantly -- the power that works in us. There is the same power as at Pentecost, only the vessels are so weak and dislocated that the Spirit is hampered, conditions for such a display as at Pentecost are not available.

Then we have the appointment of one to take the

place of Judas. In this connection Peter quotes Scripture. It is important that our procedure should at all times be based on Scripture. It was the mind of heaven that twelve apostles should be secured, that there should be no discrepancy, but that all should be together as the day of Pentecost was fully come, or "now accomplishing". We may read Acts and overlook that what took place is connected with the day of Pentecost; it was no accident, it was a spiritual matter. "When the day of Pentecost was now accomplishing". "When" indicates time, and directs the spiritual mind to earlier teaching. What I am stressing is that this company are moving together intelligently. They repair the breach by the appointment of an apostle in lieu of the missing one, and heaven ratified their provision. Thus they are together at the suitable time -- it is a selected time. Scripture had spoken of that day, and they would understand what was written, as the psalm referring to Judas was understood. Pentecost was one of the most important of the feasts. It is called the feast of weeks, when the days were counted after the sheaf of the wave-offering was presented, and it is important to count those days. The disciples may not have had much teaching on the Pentateuch, but they had spiritual understanding. The Lord had instructed two of them on their way to Emmaus, "beginning at Moses", and He had opened the understanding of those gathered together (Luke 24). We must not assume that they did not hear about Pentecost, they did, and the Lord would open their understanding as to it. Peter would no doubt say to John, What do you think about the feast of weeks? Such questions are asked in our readings. The most precious things are revealed to brethren coming together with their Bibles open.

We read of the feast of weeks in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. It is mentioned in

Deuteronomy in connection with two other feasts, three being selected out of seven. God wishes us to understand these three by themselves. In Leviticus you get seven, you have the whole range there. In Deuteronomy God says, "Three times in the year shall all thy males appear before Jehovah thy God", as if these were the feasts to be specially understood; and He says further, "They shall not appear before Jehovah empty". We are to appear before God with spiritual substance. How great to be brought into the divine system and made to enrich it! The male represents that side of the truth. You will notice in the chapter referred to, Deuteronomy 16, that there is no limit to the time of observance of the feast of weeks. The other two feasts are limited as to time. This, no doubt, alludes to the antitype, for the Spirit leads us outside of time.

The feast of weeks has particular reference to our dispensation, the disciples were all together on that day; as already said, it was no accident. It is the great type that speaks of the coming down of the Spirit according to the Lord's promise. So now they move together, there is not one absent. Is there anything for us in that? Many of us are away when the best things come in; we are absent and miss them. Anna was not absent as Christ was brought into the temple. Sisters sometimes have a heavy day on Monday and say, I shall not go to the prayer meeting, I shall go to the reading. And thus they may miss an advantage never again offered. The Lord had prayed the Father to send the Comforter, so suddenly there was "a sound out of heaven as of a violent impetuous blowing". The disciples came together in the light of Scripture, and heaven accredited their action, and so today what we expect in intelligent faith will come. Let us be more expectant, coming together in the light of the principles that govern the moment. We may come together in our own way, but heaven

does not regard that, It says, "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit". Notice that word "all". Why should one be absent? Thomas would not miss it this time! I would again remind the brethren that absentees from meetings do not know what they may lose.

Finally, I wished to show how, as the result of the first great evangelical effort, converts were brought into what was there, but not with their own thoughts. A truly converted person does not wish to retain his own thoughts, they are extraneous now, they will hamper him and others. These three thousand mentioned in chapter 2: 41 imbibed the light and principles and feelings that were already there, they would not bring in anything to vitiate what was among the saints, it all comes from heaven. You will notice that when they were convicted, they said to Peter and to the other apostles, "What shall we do, brethren?" Why are "the other apostles" mentioned? Why not Peter alone? It is to show that the principles governing the apostles, who had all been affected by the Holy Spirit, were injected by the gospel into the converts. They saw eleven of the apostles standing there, and Peter with them. Who are these men? they would inquire; they are like Peter. They would recognise that the apostles represented the Lord, and they addressed their questions to them, as well as to Peter, showing they were drinking in the spirit that was there. A truly converted man has instincts, and would regard any one of the apostles as one who could answer questions. The apostles excelled any that had existed before, they were the workmanship of Christ; manifestly of Christ. The apostle exhorts the Thessalonians to "know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; and to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake"; that is the principle here.

So these three thousand were baptised, and "added", and we read, "they persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers". These converted ones had drunk into what was there, and they are not to go off to their own sects, to the Pharisees, Sadducees and so on. A converted man will not go back; he will follow the line of the truth and what is said of these enters into our present position, as to whether the truth is affecting us, whether we are persevering in it, and it is giving character to us, whether we are continuing in the apostles' teaching and fellowship, that fellowship where the Lord's rights are observed; and in the breaking of bread, which is the expression of that, and then in prayers.

In what I have said, I have sought to give some little idea of the early christians, and how they moved together. The Lord would say to such, I can add to you. Why are we not added to? Suitable conditions may be wanting. Other things are stated here. "Fear was upon every soul ... and every day, being constantly in the temple ... they received their food with gladness and simplicity of heart ... and the Lord added ... daily those that were to be saved". It is as if the Lord said, If conditions are there, additions will be there; and these are the conditions -- saints moving together in the light governing the position. Under these circumstances He would say, I can trust some of My own to you, such as are in the counsels of God. Would that one might grasp it oneself! The apostle could say, "For this cause I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory". There are precious souls all round us who are included in the counsels of God, and the Lord would have us to seek them, that they might obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

JOHN THE BAPTIST AS SEEN IN JOHN'S GOSPEL

John 1:6 - 8, 15, 19 - 37; John 3:26 - 34

J.T. Spirituality, as attaching to John's gospel, is seen illustratively in the way in which John the baptist is introduced. As compared with the synoptical allusions to him, he is seen mainly as calling attention to Christ, as to His Person, and in this gospel no failure is attributed to him. He is introduced as "sent from God", and that he might witness concerning the light; as if the standpoint of this gospel requires such an one to bear witness to Christ -- one sent from God. And then we have his readiness to do so even at his own expense; as the incarnation is stated in verse 14 we have John's witness, and that he cried saying, "This was he of whom I said, He that comes after me is preferred before me, for he was before me".

In all the passages read we have the same character of testimony, all bringing out that there was at least one man here who, at the outset, appreciated Christ, unselfishly witnessing to His personal greatness. So that we have him saying in verse 34, "I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God"; and in the end of chapter 3 he is referred to as "the friend of the bridegroom", one who rejoices because of the Bridegroom's voice. So that he effaces himself and makes much of Christ -- he disappears out of view saying that his joy is fulfilled, standing and hearing the Bridegroom. Although having a great personal mission from heaven, the time came when he stood and listened to Christ. He spoke of His heavenly glory; He had come from heaven as above all -- "He who comes out of heaven is above all" (chapter 3: 31). I think that John fits in with the present time in that sense as an example for us to speak well of

Christ, as apprehending His Person. The Lord says of him later that he was a burning and a shining light. When opposition thickens, as it is thickening according to chapter 10, He went to where John baptised at first, showing that He had kept John in mind. We might also keep him in mind as the one who spoke so well of Christ.

W.W. Is it in order that we should speak well of Christ, that you draw attention to John?

J.T. Yes. The Lord challenges the disciples elsewhere, "Whom say ye that I am?" Matthew 16:15. We ought to be able to say who He is.

Rem. I was thinking about verse 6, how God in the different ages had His men. He had the prophets to speak, but John seems to have a peculiar place. In Luke 24:44 the Lord speaks of Moses and the prophets, they spoke of Him, but John has a special place.

J.T. He was one sent from God; the word "from" suggesting also that he was with God. The first credential of such an one ought to be that he speaks well of Christ, and this marks John strikingly. He was "a man sent from God", not sent by God merely, but "from God". He was sent by God, but he was sent from God, that is, he has been with God, as already said; and the more we are with God the more we will think rightly of Christ. So of the Word it is said, "He was in the beginning with God"; and the Spirit comes out "from with the Father", as chapter 15: 26 (New Trans.) reads. He testifies of Christ -- there is first-hand knowledge, the Spirit knowing the feelings of the Father, and of the love wherewith the Father loves the Son.

W.H.R. In what sense was "the life ... the light of men"? Was it the Lord down here?

J.T. Quite so. "In him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light appears in darkness,

and the darkness apprehended it not". It is Christ as Man.

H.S. Are we to be with God in order to get this appreciation of Christ, to speak well of Him?

J.T. Well, that is the lesson in verse 6: a man sent not simply by God, but "sent from God". You get a man earlier -- Jehu -- anointed and sent by God, but you could not speak of him being with God first; he was a fast driver and did things ruthlessly. John was sent from God; so that he is qualified to speak well of Christ. There is no voice from heaven in John, as in the synoptic gospels, speaking well of Christ; John in a sense takes that place in this gospel. The voice from heaven announced, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight". John was with God in the wilderness; he was in the deserts till the time of his showing to Israel. He was where there was no fleshly gratification: God would be before him, and he came out according to this gospel as "sent from God". Those who are really sent from God will have right thoughts of Christ, and will convey them in words, too.

A.E.L. Would you say it was a revelation from God to John?

J.T. Yes, he says, "He who sent me to baptise with water, he said to me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit" (verse 33). The idea of being sent was carried through. The great contrast between John and Christ is seen in what John says, that Christ is He who "baptises with the Holy Spirit". He said previously, "I beheld the Spirit descending as a dove from heaven, and it abode upon him" (verse 32). He does not say anything about the voice, although it happened at the same time. He is the voice! He is the one who speaks well of Christ here.

F.I. Have you in mind that, as being with God, we should have a sense of the greatness of Christ, so that we see that all that has come in will be carried through?

J.T. At the end of the account he gives of the baptist, John the evangelist says, "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand". And then there is a terrible penalty attached to not being subject to Him: "he that is not subject to the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him". The One whom the Father loves carries things through, showing that the administration of the economy is in the hands of the One who is loved. It is in the hands of the Son, that is, a divine Person in manhood.

F.I. In contrast to the Son, one of the greatest men in the Old Testament, Solomon, when he is finishing his course, turned aside from God, but here John the baptist is able to hand over all into the hands of this Person knowing that it is going to be carried through.

J.T. He stands and hears, meaning that his mission is finished. In verse 35 it says that John stood: "on the morrow, there stood John ..." He can stand as seeing the Spirit coming and abiding upon Christ; that is, God has committed Himself to Christ restfully -- not taking Him on as He took David on and others. David had to say, "Take not thy holy spirit from me" (Psalm 51), but here there is an additional thought -- "abiding" -- One great enough for the Spirit to abide upon Him! John stood after that. He was baptising, and Jesus came to him to be baptised, but John says, "Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world". He introduces Christ. He says later, "I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God". He not only saw the truth of Christ's Person, but bore witness to it, and that is the point; you say what you

believe, you testify to what you see. The Lord would help us to speak of Himself according to His full dignity, that is, according to what He is in the economy into which divine Persons have come; and what He is in His abstract personality. Although in the place of subjection, and receiving all from the Father as this gospel teaches us. He is yet equal with the Father, and that as Man.

A.E.L. John's record is that "This is the Son of God".

J.T. Yes, that is the point, "This is the Son of God". Then the following verses show that he fully understood what it meant; he is admiring the Lord; and in chapter 3 he is decreasing, "I must decrease", he says -- he is joyfully going out of sight; he is no rival to Christ. He has fulfilled his mission.

A.E.L. From this record you would hardly know that John baptised Him. It is because of the greatness of the Person.

J.T. His actual baptism is left out purposely.

J.M. What is involved in the term "Son of God"?

J.T. In this gospel it is His divine personality that is stressed. There is nothing said about our being sons of God in this gospel, therefore it is more His own distinction. Matthew brings out the fact that we also are sons, and of course Paul develops it doctrinally; but John leaves that. It is implied, of course, we being brethren of Christ, but He is stressing the greatness of Christ, His sonship, which implies Deity.

W.H.R. So the Lord in chapter 9 says, "Dost thou believe on the Son of God?"

J.T. That is a striking passage. In Romans 8, you have the thought, "if Christ be in you ..." (verse 10). This gospel opens that up. Certain persons mentioned are those in whom Christ is characteristically. He is in John the baptist sacrificially, because he calls

Him the "Lamb of God". In chapter 9 Christ is seen as Son of God by the man who had been cast out. The Lord had in mind that that man should understand sonship; it was one of the features of the truth to be set out in that man. He has neither "sinned nor his parents, but that the works of God should be manifested in him" (chapter 9: 3). That is the thought, the effect was to be seen; it is a great point, not simply what we think, but what can be seen in us. So the Lord heard that he was cast out; He waits for that. There is a very striking link there with the present time, because it is the outside place that is needed for all these great things. The Lord waited till he was cast out, and then He finds him and says to him, "Dost thou believe on the Son of God?" He answers, "Who is he, Lord?" The Lord says, "Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he". And he says, "I believe, Lord: and he did him homage". I believe that that is the point today, to be in the outside place, whether we leave the evil or it casts us out, it is the same thing. When the Lord hears that we are outside, He finds us. That is the point to be noted, because I do not believe that those who remain in a position where Christ's rights are not owned, get light. They do not get the light that belongs to the full position. The Son of God has inaugurated, and is carrying on, another order of things, and that involves separation.

The first thing that is said of John as to his own action, I mean as to his personal testimony, is that he "bears witness of him, and he has cried, saying, This was he of whom I said, He that comes after me is preferred before me, for he was before me". He cried. It is not simply saying here, but crying so that everybody is to hear. It is not what we think of Him, it is not simply that we should know who He is, but what do we say of Him? Here John's testimony is stressed, "he has cried, saying ..."

A.E.L. "He was before me", what is meant by that?

J.T. It is a question of Christ's Person. John was born before Christ. He alludes to the Lord's deity, not His history on earth. John's remark refers to what was before time. We have, "In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". There is no article before the word 'beginning' here; it would mean that the Lord was in the beginning, when or whatever it was. In Genesis we read, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", Genesis 1:1. The angels were evidently there at that time because they were there when the foundations of the earth were laid (Job 38). So that, whenever there was in any sense a beginning, this Person was there already. He did not begin then; God forbid such a thought in anyone! He was there, He was at that time, He was with God, and was God. He was there, as this narrative gives it, "All things received being through him, and without him not one thing received being which has received being". He was the Person who did everything, who made everything. All came into being by His instrumentality. There was not one thing, John says, that received being without Him. That is a striking statement as to created things.

G.E. He Himself had no beginning.

J.T. The marvellous way things are put here fits into our minds so that they should be fixed as to that. This is an outstanding passage as to the deity of Christ. In seeking to help christians it is wise to start with this verse; all christians in the world should agree on this verse. Some may shrink from the truth of separation, but if God has wrought in a man's heart he would freely accept these early verses of John.

H.S. Christ has, at least, this place in the heart of every christian.

J.T. I think so. The peculiar wording of this passage is intended to fit into our minds so that it we can all be on common ground on this point, and we cannot go any further if we are not. I think John the baptist is the characteristic man as to this. He is ready for this! A man who had the greatest place in the testimony, and had the opportunity of assuming to be the Messiah, or one of the great prophets; but he effaces himself, preferring One greater than he. Then when the incarnation is first given by John the evangelist (verse 14), in saying "we have contemplated his glory ..." John the baptist cries and says, "he was before me". It is John's witness of Christ -- "he has cried, saying, This was he of whom I said, He that comes after me is preferred before me, for he was before me". He had already said it, and now he is crying as to it!

W.H.R. John saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove. What do you understand by that?

J.T. Verse 32 reads, "And John bore witness, saying, I beheld the Spirit descending as a dove from heaven, and it abode upon him". I have no doubt the allusion would be to Genesis 8. There are peculiar touches in that chapter about the dove. She was sent out by Noah and received back to him; she came back, she found no rest for the sole of her foot. Finally, she came back with an olive leaf in her mouth, not a floating dead one, but "plucked off", showing that the link now is established with life, vegetable life. She is spoken of as over against the raven, a different bird. It is the distinctiveness of the dove. And we know how it is spoken of in the Canticles, the love-book. It would allude to the Spirit, in that sense, coming in on the Person of Christ -- nothing to disturb, because evidently the dove is very sensitive. So that we are enjoined not to grieve the Spirit, nor to quench Him. The dove represents the Spirit in its entirety, it is a whole

idea. It is not given by measure, it comes unconditionally, unreservedly, on Christ, as if to honour Him as great enough for it. It was in entire keeping with the voice from heaven, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight", not given in this gospel, as we have said. Then the Spirit, showing that there is nothing at all to disturb, is there.

A.E.L. Would sealing be a similar thought? Sealing and anointing are both applied to the Lord.

J.T. Yes, I think sealing is that He is marked off as peculiarly the Father's.

J.M. There is a good deal in this gospel about seeing -- "I have seen and borne witness ..."

J.T. Yes; thus we are challenged as to whether we have eyes to see. What John saw was remarkable. The word to him was, "Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending ..." Of course, there were many others there at the time from Judaea and Jerusalem; people came from all directions to John to be baptised, and this must have been a day of great note. Did all see what happened? The word to him was not simply, Upon whom the Spirit comes, but "Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending". That is, You are to see it. Your testimony is not to be second-hand, it is to be first-hand. What testimony we have is through others, but John the baptist is honoured in seeing this, being a witness of the Spirit in the form of a dove coming on another divine Person. Think of the magnitude of that; of one being told that he is to see that. So that he is a competent witness. And then he adds, "And I have seen ..." He is a first-hand witness, as already said.

J.M. Is that not a principle -- we have to see things for ourselves before we give witness?

J.T. Yes. The thought runs through this gospel, "Come and see". In these last days doctrine is not enough, it is what is seen.

Ques. Why does John say, "And I knew him not"?

J.T. I think that it is to show that his knowledge of Christ is not a mere knowledge derived from personal physical contact. He was His relative after the flesh -- John's mother is called Mary's cousin. Before John was born and before Christ was born, John was affected by Him through the hearing of his mother. His contact with Christ for testimony was spiritual. Relationships in the flesh do not help in the testimony. All must be on a spiritual basis.

A.E.L. How do you account for the expression, "the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world", in this gospel, and then, later, "Behold the Lamb of God"?

J.T. Well, it points to the place that Christ had with John. Both statements are connected with the movements of Christ. What John saw, what he bore record of (verse 32), was not a movement of Christ, but a movement of the Spirit on Him. But the expression, "Behold the Lamb of God", is the outcome of a movement of Christ. First, He came to John -- "he sees Jesus coming to him" (verse 29); then secondly, (verse 36), he saw Jesus "as he walked". It alludes to the manner of Christ's walk, I believe. Genesis 2 is in mind, Adam naming the creatures. He would observe the peculiar features of the sheep, or of the lamb; and I think, therefore, what is meant is that Christ is in John sacrificially. He is not only apprehended as a Person who was before him, but He is a sacrificial Person, as seen in Isaiah 53 -- over against other lambs that are mentioned. The word "lamb" as in Scripture is generally connected with sacrifice, as in Genesis 22.

W.H.R. His taking away of the sin of the world -- would that be as before God?

J.T. It is the sacrificial side; it is not the military side. It involves the judgment of God, but He will deal with sin in a military way too.

W.H.R. I suppose that has been done in the death of Christ?

J.T. Well, it has; but "takes away" is a characteristic word. It is better to keep it so than make it merely historical.

J.M. What do you mean by military action in this connection?

J.T. Well. Revelation 19 shows that He will come down militarily to deal with lawlessness, actual removal requires military action; but this is the sacrificial side, sin could never be dealt with according to God otherwise. It might be dealt with punitively, all sinners might be sent to the lake of fire, but we need the sacrificial side to bring out what God is in regard of the world. The sacrificial side meets that; it brings out what God is. The military side is detail really. Taking away sin in a sacrificial sense reveals God. This is the greater thought. The taking away is a great moral thought. God stands out in it.

Ques. Was that a necessity before God could move?

J.T. Well, a sacrifice had to take place. I think it is well to keep the thing in its present tense. He is the Taker-away of the sin of the world, as the Lamb of God: not the Son here -- He is the Lamb.

Ques. Is that why there was no following to the first "Behold"?

J.T. The time had not come morally. The next day is the day for following. Verse 35 says, "On the morrow, there stood John and two of his disciples. And, looking at Jesus as he walked, he says, Behold the Lamb of God". He is not now coming to John, as in verse 29; coming to John meant that He was going to die, "he sees Jesus coming to him".

F.I. I do not quite understand what difference you are making between "Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world" and "Behold the Lamb of God" in verse 36.

J.T. Well, "as he walked" -- John stood and saw that. But the other is "Jesus coming to him".

F.I. It is a further movement here -- Behold the Person. They saw Him and they said, "Where abidest thou?" and He said, "Come and see".

J.T. The first is the sacrificial work, the taking away of the sin of the world; there is no following yet. But in verse 36 the Lord is walking. The order here is, first what is to be understood as a finished matter; not that it is not to be continuous in its effect, because it is, but it is in principle a finished matter; and the next thing is the Lamb walking -- what that Person is now, where is He going? He is not walking aimlessly. In Genesis 18 three persons came to Abraham. They were detained and entertained by him, and they accepted the entertainment. But they were on the way. Abraham was not the final objective in their minds, it was Sodom; they were going to Sodom. Abraham interceded for Sodom, but the judgment was not stayed. Abraham went to his place, and Jehovah went on, and the judgment is executed. But now the Lamb is walking; not now to die, but to reach some result. It is the time to gather results now. I think that verse 36 is the Lamb's movements as gathering results, and we all want to be in that. We are all results of the taking away of the sin of the world. The world is not left as it was, there are people coming out of it.

A.E.L. The Person who accomplished the work is becoming the Object of attraction.

J.T. Yes. "I, if I be lifted up ... will draw all to me". John 12:32.

J.F.C. Is this gospel, coming in last, intended to be peculiarly steadying to faith when general departure has begun?

J.T. Quite so. It is full of that.

J.F.C. Which is important -- what has been seen, or what is to be seen?

J.T. Both are important: the latter implies continued freshness. This comes out in what the Lord says to those following: "But Jesus having turned, and seeing them following, says to them, What seek ye? And they said to him, Rabbi (which, being interpreted, signifies Teacher), where abidest thou? He says to them, Come and see". That is the principle -- "Come and see". It is not now to see Him, but to see where He abides. If we see Him walking, and follow Him, then the next thing is, where He abides. He says, "Come and see". So that we are set in movement; it is really an astronomical idea, there is now a moving system with a centre. And hence as you run down the chapter you have "Come and see". There is constant movement now, in relation to a centre -- not aimless movement. So that as we come to chapter 4, to the poor soul that meets the Lord at the well. He says to her, "If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that says to thee, Give me to drink, thou wouldest have asked of him ..." The Person would be before her. And presently she moves, and others move; so that it is not a stationary thing. In the cathedrals, and the parishes, and the dioceses, the see of Rome included, things are all fixed, as if people were going to stay here. Even if we get a nice meeting-room, there is a tendency to settle in. But John has in mind that we are to be in movement.

J.F.C. It is the Person that is putting us together in the present time.

J.T. Well, that is why I suggested looking at this scripture. We need to understand movement in relation to Christ.

F.I. This would affect us on the first day of the week -- "Come and see".

J.T. In seeking to help the Lord's people who have not found Christ as a centre, it is a great advantage to

get them to come into the circle of life, and see what there is -- however little.

P.T.W. These things are written to get believers to "believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life in his name", John 20:31.

J.T. Yes. "That ... ye might have life", and it is "in his name". If there is a living state of things at all, however feeble, then it is worth seeing, and we should not be afraid of asking people to "come and see". Get them in touch with what is living.

G.E. In chapter 17 the Lord prays "that where I am they also may be with me, that they may behold my glory". Seeing is the great thing all through.

J.T. I think chapter 12 is the kind of thing that we should keep in our minds. The Lord comes to Mary of Bethany the third time. His first coming is seen in Luke 10, and He comes a second time, according to John in chapter 11, then a third time in chapter 12. In the first, Mary is mentioned as at the feet of Jesus. Now He comes "six days before the passover", and Lazarus is in mind, whom He raised from the dead. He is alluded to as "the dead man Lazarus", and yet he is raised from the dead; meaning that he is dead as regards this world -- a Colossian thought. Jesus came there, and Lazarus sat at the table and Martha served. Then (verse 9), the Jews began to come to see Lazarus also, not only to see Jesus. There was something there to see as a testimony to Christ's power in Lazarus.

G.E. Should that be seen amongst christians?

J.T. Yes, a living state of things. I believe that is the great thing that John has in mind -- eternal life. It was brought before us by the Lord half a century ago. The point was to get brethren to live, instead of going on with a mere form of meetings, and the order of the assembly not followed much. Then, if you have that, the order proper to the assembly

will be developed. God planted a garden in Eden, and He set Adam to dress it and keep it. The dressing and keeping refers to an order of things, and it is what the Lord has been engaging us with for many years; how in a living way we come back to divine order -- and what God delights in, growth in life, regulated by divine order.

R.W. Would you speak of John's gospel as being new creation?

J.T. Well, it is more the family side. It is birth: birth is a greater thought, really, than creation -- to be born of God. "As many as received him, to them gave he the right to be children of God, to those that believe on his name; who have been born, not of blood, nor of flesh's will, nor of man's will, but of God". It is children; also brethren, as in chapter 20 -- the family of God.

W.H.R. When Peter raised up Dorcas he presented her living.

J.T. So the Lord in the Acts presented Himself living; that is, that we might see life as in Him -- the true thought of it.

GUIDANCE FROM HEAVEN

Matthew 2:1, 2, 9 - 12; Acts 9:3 - 6; Acts 10:9 - 21

I wish to speak about guidance from heaven; it is a feature of our dispensation that light and guidance come from heaven; not from man-made dignitaries, religious dignitaries, ecclesiastical dignitaries, nor man-made councils -- guidance is from heaven. Many other things might be said about heaven and its prerogatives in this dispensation, but I confine myself to this one thought, that from the earliest times the heavens were indicated as the source of light and guidance. The sun and the moon as made were set in the heavens "for signs, and for seasons", and "to give light upon the earth" (Genesis 1:14, 17); the stars also, that is, all were made by God for the purpose stated, and He has never lost sight of this fact, but Christ having entered into heaven accentuates the thought. He has "gone into heaven, ... angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him", 1 Peter 3:22. "Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things" (Acts 3:21); that is, it is a fixed state of things until a certain time. "Whom the heaven must receive ..." That is, Christ according to divine appointment is there, and hence there is light and guidance from that point, from heaven, beyond any possibility of human interference; so that we can be quite confident as to what comes, knowing whence it comes -- that Christ is there, "received up in glory", and installed there in the place of power. "From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool", Hebrews 10:13. He is not quiescent, He is not inactive; He is active, indeed, much more so than we are apt to think. Infinite vigilance is there, the Keeper of Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps!

So Matthew, who particularly stresses this point of the heavens, begins early to show that they were active as Jesus was born. What is recorded by Luke is that, "unto you is born this day ... a Saviour"; it was immediate, according to Luke, the announcement by the angel was "this day". But Matthew gives us a later incident, for the word should read, "Jesus having been born ..." However long before is not stated, but what is stated is that the wise men found "the little child" -- not "the babe"; the sign to the shepherds was, "Ye shall find the babe", but here it is "the little child". That is, He has advanced in age, so that it is now a matter of history that the King has been born -- the "king of the Jews". It is a matter of history, but history of the greatest possible moment; nothing would be greater as an event, a birth, than the birth of the King of the Jews. Although gentiles, the wise men do not hesitate to refer to Him in this way; not simply as the King of mankind, but the King of the Jews -- humbly, although gentiles, respecting the divine choice. It is not a matter of curiosity with them, they are not sightseers, nor are they tourists fulfilling a double purpose -- seeing Jerusalem and its environments at the same time, but they come to see the King! Where is He? they say. They do not seek a guide to show them the sights of Jerusalem -- it is the King of the Jews they want. And that is all there is today, dear brethren; sights -- localities in themselves -- lose their value in the presence of the King. It is now a question of the King, what He will do and where He will be. He is not viewed as a Man -- He is "the little child". From the human side there is development. He became a Babe, and grew into manhood, which truth Luke gives in more detail. The sign given of old was that "a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his

name Emmanuel ... God with us". This is God's way.

Matthew makes a great point of things being according to prophecy, and prophecy required that Jesus should come in as He did, and He came in exactly as prophesied of Him. So that when I use the word 'development', I mean that He was real in every state He took up; it could not be otherwise; a Babe, a young Child, a Boy, a Man. "Jesus himself", we are told, "began to be about thirty years of age", Luke 3:23. He "increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man", Luke 2:52.

But then in His abstract personality, there is no change. In a word, the truth is the incarnation; that is, a divine Person taking another condition -- that is the thought. The mode of taking that condition is described in prophecy, and fulfilled, according to the gospels, with infinite accuracy. We have to understand both sides of the truth. One side is, He is God; "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". He was God! Never personally less than God; but in time, in testimony, as I said, we have the Babe, the little Child, the Boy, and the Man -- I am using the exact words of Scripture.

So these wise men from the east arrive at Jerusalem, in their quest of the King -- not "the little child", but "the King"; for that is who He was. As the angels said to the shepherds, "Unto you is born this day ... a Saviour": not One who was to be that, but it is the Person, the Saviour Himself! And it is not, who will be, but "who is Christ the Lord". Luke 2:11. These wise men had that in mind; whatever His age was, He was the King of the Jews. They were looking for the King. There were not before, perhaps, such men in the east as these -- what men they were! "We have seen his star in

the east", they say. Who told them it was His star? They had light in their souls from heaven, and they move in that light, they move towards the Jewish position. Jewry was a small affair then, compared to what it was under David and Solomon; but these wise men did not despise it at that time, they came to Jerusalem. There is nothing said about the star until they leave Herod; and they are later divinely directed not to return to him; but still they came to Jerusalem, they came in the direction of the King of the Jews, where He should be born. They would say in their hearts, Where shall we find Him save in the capital of Judaea? They did not know the scripture that He should be born in Bethlehem. There is nothing said about their knowledge of the Scriptures. I speak of this now to show how the work of God manifests itself in those who are the subjects of it. If we get light from heaven about Jesus, the next thing is, Where is He? Where is He to be found? There are many companies who claim to have the Lord with them -- independent companies -- but no independent company can have the Lord Jesus with them. He was never independent. One great feature of Christ was submission to the will of God. Where is He to be found? Well, if He is the King of the Jews, the men from the east would conclude, He will be found among the Jews -- He would not be born among the gentiles.

These wise men thus make their way; they move in the light that had come to them. It was heavenly light -- it was a star, one known as the star of Jesus. These men must have been astronomers. They, no doubt, could tell you the names of the planets, but I know of no others who have discovered the star of Jesus! These were the ones. They say, "we have seen his star ..." From another point of view, all the stars are His -- He made them all. "All things were made by him; and without him was not any

thing made that was made". John 1:3. There was not one thing made that He did not make! But this star was a peculiar star; evidently not a fixed one; it was a movable one. Being the star of Jesus it moved in relation to Him -- necessarily so. It moved in the orbit of that Centre -- and that is really the point to be made here, that if we get light about Jesus all our movements must be in relation to Him.

Now Jesus was not at Jerusalem. However accurate their calculations as to where He should be, He was not at Jerusalem. The Scripture did not say that He should be born there; they went to the wrong place. Not that I would discredit these men, far otherwise; but there is nothing indicated about the star at Jerusalem. What one would remark here is, that if one is seeking light -- if any light, any little inkling of Christ, comes to one, and one moves in it -- it involves another way, not the way that we have been on, or that the natural mind would take. Most of our brethren are in the wrong way. "There is a way that seemeth right ..." you know, to many, but there is "another way". Of Rahab it is said that she was justified by works "when she had received the messengers and had sent them out another way", James 2:25. She is a heavenly personage, in principle. She belonged to Canaan. She was a Canaanite, but she ceases to be that; she began really to be, in type at least, a heavenly personage, when she received the spies. She was justified by works; and anyone who is to be justified by works proceeds on "another way". He is not a missionary -- I mean to say, he is not a man who proceeds on the ordinary religious lines, but on a different way, a way that would be unaccredited by the world, by the religious leaders of this world; if he gets light from heaven he proceeds on "another way". Let us see to it that, if on wrong lines, the old will not do, old methods will not do. Nor will it do to say to a

person, You are on the wrong way; you want to point out the other way if you are to be justified by works. Point them to "another way". Rahab was justified by works in this sense. As to the magi, we are told "they departed into their own country another way" (verse 12). Heaven had intervened. Do not go to Herod if you want the right way; do not go that way! If you do, you may be incited to murder the brethren! That is what he did; he murdered the little children -- terrible wickedness.

Some of us were saying this morning that men may read the Bible, even look into it for guidance, and yet be murderous in their thoughts. That is what Herod did. He gathered all the chief priests and scribes together and demanded of them where Christ should be born. He had recourse to the Scriptures in order to murder! You say of some who oppose the truth and turn away from their brethren. They have the Bible -- they read the Bible there and claim to act according to it. Yes, but I may do that, and yet have murder in my heart. Of course, I do not say that it could be literal murder, but we might be hating the brethren and looking for a scripture to justify our hatred of and separation from them, and scripture says, "Every one that hates his brother as a murderer", 1 John 3:15.

What these men show is right instinct. When they heard the king, they departed, "and lo, the star which they saw in the east, went before them". They are on the right line now. "I being in the way", says one, "the Lord led me", Genesis 24:27. True enough, they got light in a way at Jerusalem in spite of the conditions there, but there is no star -- no star mentioned there -- and the star is the great means of guidance in all this. It is a question of Christ. We must never get out of the light of Christ -- it makes all things bright. If the way is there, go in it; that is, "I being in the way, the Lord led me"; and

that is what happened; they saw the star and it was joy to their hearts -- "they rejoiced with exceeding great joy".

We should be feeling christians. Many of us are stoical; we receive light in the mind, in a sort of mental way, but there is no joy in the countenance, "I shall yet praise him who is the health of my countenance", says the psalmist; a healthy countenance is a joyful countenance. "They rejoiced with exceeding great joy", and presently they found the little Child. The star had directed them to the little Child, not Herod; if Herod only knew, he would slay Him, but the star directed them. Dear brethren, if we want to know where Christ is, heavenly light directs us to where He is; not the territory simply, nor the city, but where He is -- "where the little child was". The star directed them, and "When they saw the star they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And having come into the house they saw the little child with Mary his mother ..." "The little child" is always mentioned first, bearing out what I have been saying, that the Person of the Lord is distinguished all the time. He must always be pre-eminent. Every lover of Christ joins with John as he says, "he was before me", and "He ... is preferred before me". God will have it so, and love in me will have it so. A lover of Jesus will always make provision for His distinction above all others. And so they bring forth their treasures -- gold, frankincense, and myrrh, and they worship!

It is the time for the worship of the Son of God. The Person of the Son of God has been made clear to us, and it is to draw out our worship. They worship Him! Then we are told that "being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way". They are spiritual. They are more spiritual than they were when they came. No one ever comes

into contact with Jesus and worships Him without being more spiritual, more rich than he ever was before. If you met them now on the return journey you would find them more spiritual than when they were on their way to Jerusalem. Their eyes had seen the King in His beauty! Although a little Child, divine beauty shone there, and it drew forth their homage and their wealth.

Well now, I go on to another side of the truth, that is, to Saul -- it is a well-known scripture. What I have in mind now is to point out how a brother gets heavenly guidance; he has been in the wrong way, he has been in the service of the enemy, "breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord". There are many who are affected in this way, alas! and this scripture is to teach us how one of such receives guidance from heaven, and the kind of guidance he gets. If we read the account given in chapter 22, we shall see that Saul asks the Lord what he is to do, but according to the best manuscripts that question is not in Acts 9; it is omitted -- the last half of verse 5 and the first half of verse 6 are omitted in the best version.

The Lord is concerned about this converted man as to how he is to be guided, without his asking, as if the Lord were to say, Now you need guidance. You say, I was converted yesterday. Thank God, but have you moved since? Where have you moved to? As soon as the light comes in from the Lord, you need guidance. Do not forget that you are not to be a free-lance any more -- you are not to go where you please any more -- many do. And many so-called evangelists let their converts provide for themselves. Not so Jesus! Here, He does not even wait for Saul to ask Him what he should do. The Lord says, as it were, This is imperative, you must get guidance, you must know where to go; if you do not, you will make a great mistake, you will get into wrong company.

Saul, rightly, wanted to know, and every right-minded subject of the work of God will say, What shall I do? Where shall I go? But the Lord anticipates all that here. He says, It must be so, you must know what to do, you must be guided aright. The light shone round about him, and the voice said, "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?" He fell down, and the Lord says "Go into the city ..." Do not trust your own mind. Well, you say, That is a mere accident, for it was near Damascus. The next narrative says, "Go into Damascus" (chapter 22); but here the Lord says, "Go into the city" (verse 6), "and it shall be told thee what thou must do" -- what thou must do!

One may say, There are several different companies, I do not know where to go. Well, the Lord says, "Go into the city". There were other companies there, too, companies to whom he might have gone. He might have gone back to Jerusalem, there were sects there; he belonged to the sect of the Pharisees -- he might have gone to them; or he might change his mind and go to the Sadducees, or to the Libertines, but the Lord anticipated all that, and simply enjoins him to go into the city. He did not say, I will go before you and prepare the brethren to look after you, but that is what the Lord had in mind. You may say, Those people that meet down there -- I do not know that there is much amongst them. It may be if we had known the few at Damascus we should have said there was not very much there! The Lord had to correct Ananias about Saul. He says, Lord, why this man has come here to bind the saints! How ready we are to intimate that we know better than the Lord! One often sees that -- in trivial things, too. It may not occur to us that we are criticising the Lord, but it is the fact. Ananias thought he knew Saul of Tarsus better than the Lord did! Think of what we are capable of! And

he was a good brother, too. The apostle Paul says later that he was a pious man, and well spoken of by the Jews there. But the Lord has in mind in sending Saul into the city that He would go before him and provide what he needed, provide guidance. Go into the city, He had said, and it will be told you what you must do.

The brethren there will insist on the principles that govern the house of God, and you must submit to the truth they set before you. And Saul did submit. He says, "I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision" (chapter 26: 19). If there is any little bit of light from heaven, do not be disobedient to it. The Lord will tell you where to go, and prepare His people there to help you. The Lord has them here for that purpose. "I will also leave in the midst of thee", He says, "an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord", Zephaniah 3:12. He has them here in this city. You go amongst them and you will get help, the Lord has left them here for you; if they need it, He will prepare them to receive you, to meet your particular case. It may be a difficult one. Certainly Saul's was a very difficult one, but the Lord made Ananias capable of helping Saul. He went to Ananias and prepared him to receive this brother, and he received him graciously and instructed him. He says, "Why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptised, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord" (chapter 22: 16). That is what he needed -- to call on His Name. Maybe there is someone here seeking light in that way -- the Lord would direct you to His people, and if you find them, you will get light amongst them; the Lord has left them here to serve those who are seeking light and help.

Finally, I wanted to say a word about Peter. I have been speaking about these brethren from the east who want to see the Lord. They want to find

Him. They have a little light from heaven about Him, and it shows them where He is; well, they find Him! They have found Him, and they worship Him. Then I spoke of a brother who has just been converted -- what guidance it is he needs. He wants to come in amongst the brethren. He may have been very distinguished elsewhere -- Saul was brought up at the feet of Gamaliel -- but now he must come in humbly and recognise that they know more than he. Those brethren at Damascus knew more than Saul; although he was brought up at the feet of Gamaliel, he knew less than Ananias. He had to take a low place and come in amongst the brethren and learn from them.

The next person in mind is a brother who is serving with great success. Peter is the leading apostle amongst the twelve, and we are told in the ninth chapter that he went everywhere in his service. He is in Joppa, and is on the house-top; but he has certain reservations in his mind. He needs instruction about the mind of heaven as to humanity. National feelings are inimical to the growth of the saints, and to qualification for the assembly. No mere nationalist can be an assembly man -- the assembly is too wide and great a thought for that. Peter was doing great service in his own country, but then God was not the God of the Jews only. He was the God of the gentiles, and He was cleansing the gentiles. Here was a man, a centurion. We may regard such a calling with reserve, but this soldier received light from heaven, and evidently continued in military service. He was in command of the Italian band, and he had a trusted servant and "a pious soldier", with him, and he sent him for Peter. I am not saying that a christian should be free to become a soldier -- if I were one and could be free, I should "use it rather", but God is no respecter of persons, and what God has cleansed we are not to

call common, whatever the man's employment. If God has taken a lead in that man's history we are to follow it.

Peter was not ready. What I have in mind now is enlargement in regard to humanity and service to men; for at this juncture in the testimony it is a question of the Son of man; He stands related to all men, not only the Jews. And not only that, God is cleansing men -- wonderful thought! "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common". That is what the voice from heaven said, which came down to Peter's ears. He is hungry -- what has that to do with it? Why did he become very hungry? Because God wanted to speak to him, as it were, through his stomach. Here are eatable things: Oh no, Peter says, I would not eat those. God says, I have cleansed them -- "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common". This happened three times. Peter, when he gives an account of it, calls the sheet a "vessel". The ninth chapter speaks of a vessel as applied to a man -- an "elect vessel"; the tenth chapter uses the same expression in regard to the sheet bound at the four corners which came to Peter. It is capable of holding what God has cleansed. It looks as if they were all unclean animals -- perhaps people looking on us might think we are unclean, but not from the standpoint of heaven -- God has cleansed us. What a blessed thought that is! God has done it -- saved us and called us -- it is by the "washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5) that God saves us.

The Lord, maybe, has a word as to our outlook. Perhaps we are national. Not that I would say a word against any person being subject to the authorities -- we should pray for them. They are God's ministers, whoever they are, in this very city -- God's ministers to us for good. It is well to see that. There is no thought at all of christians interfering

with governments ordered of God, they are God's ministers for good; we are to be subject to them, and pray for them. But then, national feelings, and limiting ourselves to our own country -- that is the danger. God is dealing with mankind. It is the kindness and love of God to man that marks the present moment -- "to man", and here is a sheet full of all kinds of creatures, "four-footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air". And the voice comes -- all to make the minister enlarged in his view, so that he might be used of God in a wider area of mankind. For God had the gentiles in mind for blessing. Simeon said in the temple, in Luke 2, "a light for revelation of the Gentiles ..." -- that is what the Child was. The gentiles had come into the view of God for blessing, and that holds good now, hence He would enlarge our view so that our service should take character from that outlook. And Peter says, "it came even to me" (chapter 11: 5). Heaven is thinking of His servant, not now as sent to the circumcision, but sent to the gentiles -- making his hand supple so that he might use the key properly, and open the door to the gentiles. The Lord had said, "I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of the heavens" (Matthew 16:19), and now he has to use them; as Ananias had to open the door to Saul, Peter has to open the doors of the kingdom to Cornelius and his company -- and he does it well. As he is speaking, "the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were hearing the word". It is not simply upon those who were in the company -- in meetings such as the present one some may not be listening to all -- the point is, "those who were hearing the word". God did not wait for them to make any confession. He gave them the Spirit before they made any confession; He knew what was going on in their hearts. But the point in mind is that Peter is enlarged by

guidance from heaven; and I would urge that the brethren should take up this point and maintain the heavenly outlook -- look there, and guidance will come from heaven. It will come even unto you. It came. Peter says, "even unto me".

THE GLORIES OF CHRIST APPREHENDED IN ASSEMBLY SERVICE

Exodus 24:1, 2, 9 - 18

J.T. What is in mind is to draw attention to the greatness of the mediator, the increasing greatness of the mediator, in this book -- that is, of Moses -- seen particularly in this chapter; and the distinction made between him and all others. The word in verse 1 is "Go up to Jehovah". The others do not go up to the mountain. Verse 9 says they went up, without specifying the place, it is more the idea of ascension or elevation, but after verse 12 the mountain is mentioned frequently. Jehovah saying to Moses, "Come up to me into the mountain, and be there". In the verses at the end, the mountain is spoken of a number of times as that into which Moses was called and went. In verse 18 it is said he "went into the midst of the cloud, and ascended the mountain. And Moses was on the mountain forty days and forty nights".

For general instruction it may be remarked that Exodus has the service of God in the wilderness in mind. The word earlier was, "ye shall serve God upon this mountain", and the message to Pharaoh was, "Let my son go, that he may serve me". And as in the wilderness they are at first led by Moses, but chapter 19 says they are moving. "In the third month after the departure of the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai: they departed from Rephidim, and came into the wilderness of Sinai, and encamped in the wilderness; and Israel encamped there before the mountain. And Moses went up to God, and Jehovah called to him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel: Ye have seen what I

have done to the Egyptians, and how I have borne you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. And now, if ye will hearken to my voice indeed and keep my covenant, then shall ye be my own possession out of all the peoples -- for all the earth is mine -- and ye shall be to me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation".

This message conveyed the mind of God as to them, and then we are told later (verse 17), that "Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the foot of the mountain". So that God is in mind; and the mediator has led the people out of the camp to meet with Him: he is serving the people and God in that way. He brought them out of the camp to meet with God. Much intervenes before we come to this chapter 24, which is the end of a section; what follows has to do mainly with the rearing of the tabernacle, and service in an official sense; but in this chapter, while God's service is in mind, it is less official, and youths instead of priests are officiating; but Moses is particularly signalised. It is helpful in view of assembly service to see how God would make room for Christ in our service. He is anointed with the oil of gladness above His fellows. We get that in the Psalms -- love active towards Him, as in Psalm 45; in this psalm He is greatly signalised in His personal dignity and attractiveness.

So we may see that more scope should be given, in the service of God, to Christ personally, ascriptions of praise to Him in relation to His functions in the assembly, and the glories that attach to Him there. The sanctuary is provided typically -- from chapter 25 to the end -- but running through the teaching of the book of Exodus is subjugation, that being affected in us; and in that connection, recognition of the glories of Christ. The sanctuary is seen fully in the end of this book; as the tabernacle was set

up, the glory of God filled it. All is seen ready for God, and He enters, and is to be served there. The Minister of the sanctuary is needed for this, anticipated in chapters 28 and 29.

F.I. Is your thought in referring to chapter 19, where it says, "they stood at the foot of the mountain", that to rise to the top of the mountain we have to see the position that Christ has as Mediator?

J.T. Well, that is how the truth stands. The line of ascension is marked by Him, and Jehovah in speaking to Moses says in verse 1 of chapter 24, "Go up"; that is in relation to others; but as to himself only we have added, "Come up to me into the mountain, and be there" (verse 12). It is his place -- Christ's place, typically -- as over against Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu and the elders.

W.H.R. Who would the others who were in ascension with him signify?

J.T. Well, Aaron is not yet constituted priest, but the order mentioned is Aaron and his two sons and the seventy elders. They would represent the saints, ourselves, as in the type, going up. That is, the service of God takes that course. "Go up", it says, but not to any place. The place is not specified, but the principle of going up to God. "Go up to Jehovah". Yet in verse 12, Jehovah says to Moses, "Come up to me into the mountain, and be there". As to him, the mountain is specified all through from verse 12 to the end of the chapter, marking off the distinction of Moses as over against the others. Christ goes beyond us in the service, having a definite place above -- "and be there", Jehovah says to Moses. He is on our side and brings us out to meet God on our side, but He has personal distinction, which is in our view in these chapters strikingly, to call forth, I think, the affections of the saints to Christ in His varied glories, relations, and offices in the assembly; and it seems to me that the brethren are

not making enough room for Christ in this sense. We proceed immediately to the Father (in many instances, at least), whereas more scope is needed to bring out the relations of Christ to the assembly, and what He is in it; His varied glories there, as I said. The assembly normally is able to sustain the glories of Christ, as they are sustained in heaven.

A.E.L. What is the thought in verse 1, where it says, "... and worship afar off"? What form would worship take? Would it be adoration simply?

J.T. It would be an inward movement Godward, and a corresponding outward movement or attitude. The word generally used in the New Testament implies prostration towards another in fondness or affection in a reverential way. The expression, "... worship afar off. And let Moses alone come near Jehovah", would of course carry with it the dispensation, but still God said that He had brought them to Himself, and the thought was to have them near to Him, as we learn elsewhere. But He makes the distinction here that they were to worship afar off. He is calling attention to Moses and his personal distinction, hence we need always to have impressed upon us Christ's dignity as standing with us.

F.I. Do you mean that the worship of God cannot properly be carried out unless we have before us these varied distinctions of Christ?

J.T. Well, we are at a disadvantage unless we make room for them.

J.M. Would the cup bring before us the Lord's glory as Mediator of the covenant?

J.T. It does. He is Mediator of the new covenant. That is one of the glories of Christ. There are varied glories, and the assembly should be the home of them, as it were. Heaven is of course the home of them -- they are seen fully there -- but the assembly should be a sort of reflex of what is in heaven.

J.M. In the assembly we are introduced into a scene of glory.

J.T. That is the end in view, glory to God in the assembly in Christ Jesus. That is, it stands "in Christ Jesus", but it is for God's glory. What is said as to Lazarus at Bethany was, "This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified by it", John 11:4.

The Lord's supper stands in relation to Christ. It is not the Father's supper, and it is not God's supper, and it is not the Spirit's supper -- it is the Lord's supper; and the section in Corinthians that teaches us as to it is full of lordship, of authority. I believe that the end in view is that Christ should be before us in a subjugating way, but still in His glory as well. In the tabernacle there are glories -- varied glories of Christ, and of God.

A.E.L. So that it is the death of the Lord we announce; the One they have refused as Lord, we recognise.

F.S. Are you specially referring to His glory as Mediator, or to all His glories?

J.T. All His glories. Of course, it is the Mediator here, we are dealing here with the type; but take the scriptures that have especially in mind the glories of Christ -- John's gospel, for instance; see the number of titles under which Christ is presented in the first chapter, and how He is apprehended and spoken of. "I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God", one says (verse 34); another says, "thou art the Son of God, thou art the King of Israel" (verse 49). The epistle to the Hebrews is very striking, it is full of the thought of the glory of Christ; and Hebrews has the service of God in mind -- John has, too. These scriptures, or sections of scripture, have in view that the saints as loving Christ should be full of His glory -- full of the greatness of the Person -- and in His supper these things should come into

view. The same thing is seen in the book of Revelation -- the ascriptions of praise to the Lord under varied titles.

F.I. Will you help us a little as to the expression of this. You have said that these things must be in view in relation to the service of God. Well now, in our service to God is it that we have in our minds these glories, and are able to give expression to them in relation to God, or is it that we give expression to them to Christ Himself?

J.T. First, to Himself.

F.I. What part of the service in relation to the Lord's supper is this connected with?

J.T. We begin with the Lord as He is above. We begin with Him there. And what should come before us, whether we speak of it or not, is the manner of His reception up there. Of course, the position is that He has been rejected here. There is no place for Him in the world, but He is accepted up there, "... received up in glory", Scripture says. "God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in the Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among the nations, has been believed on in the world, has been received up in glory", 1 Timothy 3:16. The Scriptures enlarge on His place above. We ought to begin with that; if we love Him we ought to begin with the thought of heaven's honour, the honour lavished upon Him above. Raised from the dead by the glory of the Father and received up in glory; glorified by the Father; all these things are facts as over against His rejection down here.

Well now, we are proceeding into assembly service and it is the Lord's supper. It is a public matter, it is a dominical matter, too, and the Lord comes into view in these varied aspects. As He has been received above, so He is to be received below. We should not be behind the angels in our reception of Christ. We have in mind that He is to come in,

and so we speak to Him accordingly. And then we look at the bread -- it alludes to His love for the assembly. He did the will of God in His body, but He also devoted Himself unto death in love to the assembly. And it seems that we should keep in mind that the glory shone in circumstances that were its very opposite. It shone out in His service here, and as entering into death. And then He is Head of the body, the assembly, and He is Priest. He is to be apprehended in all these lights. And then as we come to the cup, He is Mediator of the new covenant, and He is Son of God -- Hebrews stresses that, that the Son of God is the Priest; and then He is Minister of the sanctuary.

So that we are led on in that way, we move on in the service of God into the area known as the sanctuary, and the idea of going up appears. Moses led the people (chapter 19: 17), out of the camp to meet with God. They had encamped before the mountain, that was proper, but then there was a leading out of that. They are not led into another camp, but "to meet with God", and the upward movement of Exodus 24 shows that.

F.I. If, as we have been helped in regard to the Supper, the first thing that is before us is the breaking of bread -- we should start with it -- should the place that Christ has in heaven be before us before the breaking of bread, should it be in our minds?

J.T. Yes, in our minds. It is in contrast with all around. He has been rejected here, ignominiously; it is not only that He has not His place as Lord, as Head, but He has been ignominiously rejected -- the cross and the grave were in hatred accorded to Him. Well, we accept that position. We move towards the Lord's supper in the acceptance of that solemn position, and it ought to solemnise us. The anointing enables us to be dignified in the recognition of that state of things. But then the rejected One

here is accepted above. He is exalted. He was carried up into heaven, and received in glory there. He is by the right hand of God exalted, being made Lord and Christ! All these statements of Scripture so rich and full and varied, should be always in our minds, but particularly as in assembly; we should be full of these things. If we were to go up into heaven literally, we should find that it is full of them, all intelligences there are full of them! The Spirit enables us to have them in our minds.

Now, such an One comes in. It says in the Psalms, "Lift up your heads, ye gates, and be ye lifted up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in", Psalm 24:7. I suppose that is in Jerusalem, and in a way it is in the assembly. It is the greatness of the Person who comes in. I do not think that the place He comes into there is heaven, it is rather Jerusalem itself -- how He should be received in the coming day. But now He says, "I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you". He comes in. Canticles shows that the assembly would be full of admiration of Christ, and able to describe Him. Well, that is the One who is coming in. "Let my beloved come into his garden ...", Song of Songs 4:16. That is the One -- and if anyone asks about Him, one who is of the assembly can describe Him.

We have in mind that He is coming in, in all these glories. Love attaches all these glories to Him. Heaven does, and the assembly should do so, too. So that as He is apprehended, as come in in a spiritual way, we must give scope for the movement of assembly affections towards Him, and for His affections for us too. Of course, it is the service of God we have in mind, and He has it in mind, but still He has His place. His supper is first -- it is the Lord's; it is not God's nor the Father's, it is the Lord's supper. So that it is the time for reciprocal affections between Christ and the assembly.

A.F.L. You are speaking of the effect of the breaking of bread especially.

J.T. Yes, and then the cup brings in the thought of the new covenant of which He is Mediator, and in connection with that we have not only that He is Mediator of it, but He is the Spirit of it; "where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty". All that comes out in relation to the cup. It is by Him, "even as by the Lord the Spirit", 2 Corinthians 3:18.

It gives a wide range for the Lord's services towards the assembly, and the assembly's response to Him, before we proceed to what is in mind, namely, the service of God as such.

J.F.C. The service of God is not immediately in connection with the cup?

J.T. As scope is given for Christ and the assembly, it follows on. It is the Lord's cup. The references to the Lord in 1 Corinthians 10 and 11 are very striking. Why should we ever connect the name of the Father with the cup? Scripture does not. The covenant is God's covenant with His people, not the Father's covenant.

P.T.W. I suppose what we have in the cup is "the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord", Romans 8:39.

H.S. To whom do we give thanks for the cup?

J.T. To the Lord. Although if one gave thanks to God for His love as seen in it, I should say, Amen, but it is peculiarly connected with the Lord.

Then there is another thing -- Christ's God, what He is to Christ. That is not the God of the covenant. There is no covenant between Christ and God. So that we are on a higher level when we speak of, "my Father and your Father", and "my God and your God". The covenant is, "I will be to them for God, and they shall be to me for people", Hebrews 8:10. It is not made with us directly, but with Israel and Judah, though of course we are brought into it.

In the epistle to the Corinthians the new covenant is connected with gentile believers, with the assembly. Christ is seen as the Spirit of it. It is seen on a higher plane than in Hebrews, which contemplates believers among the Jews. Those called would be those called amongst the Jews, and the word eternal would be in contrast to the temporal inheritance that they had come into. Whatever the inheritance, it is of an eternal nature. Hebrews stresses that. Hebrews 9 goes beyond the thought of the covenant to the fulness of Christ's death, His sacrificial death, and all that flows from it in the gospel. The new covenant is in Hebrews 8. Chapter 9 gives enlargement and goes wider, speaking of the whole bearing of the death of Christ. Chapter 10 continues this, returning to the new covenant -- all to the end that the saints should be free to draw near to God.

A.E.L. "Now to appear in the presence of God for us"; is that the termination?

J.T. Yes.

W.H.R. When the Lord says, "I am coming to you", is it general when we are taking the Supper, or is it after we have taken the Supper?

J.T. It would be through the memorial -- the calling of Him to mind in the bread and the cup. John brings it in, none of the other evangelists do. "I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you", John 14:18. It comes in after He mentions the Comforter; He says, "If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him nor know him; but ye know him, for he abides with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you", verses 15 - 18. I think John gives us that to show what we may count on in the last days. The Lord comes in in relation to the Comforter.

John is the only one who calls the Spirit the Comforter, and it is very comforting for us in these last days that He continues with us. He will be with you for ever, the Lord says; and it is in that way that He comes in. He does not come in corporeally as He did in the early days of christianity, as in 1 Corinthians 15. John does not contemplate that. He contemplates Him coming in in a spiritual way in virtue of the Comforter being here; but nevertheless He comes, and I am sure we have realised it. As spiritual, we discern Him.

W.H.R. Is that to be realised when we are together in assembly?

J.T. Yes. When David inaugurated the service of God he put several psalms together; he made selections from them, making one suitable for the occasion (1 Chronicles 16). It is a question of spiritual understanding, so as to put things together. The Lord says in relation to the Supper, "This do for a remembrance of me". The original word for remembrance is used four times, Luke 22, 1 Corinthians 11, and Hebrews 10. It is a peculiar form, see note on 1 Corinthians 11:24 (New Trans.). Why should it be that? Obviously, spiritual understanding would say, The Lord must mean more than that I should remember Him as I remember any other person. He means that there is an active power in the mind to call Him in in relation to the memorial He left with His disciples. Spiritual understanding would further say, Then the Lord's supper is just when He would come in. We should expect Him to come in. We have that in mind, and He has it in mind.

W.H.R. We are calling Him into presence in our spiritual apprehension.

J.T. There is power in the renewed mind, the Spirit helping. It is not a great mental effort. You might be able to recall a dead relative or friend, or a living one, but he is not conscious of this; but Christ's

relations with the assembly are of a vital, organic character, the Spirit being the active medium, and the Lord can thus become present as opportunity on our side offers. People speak of remembering the Lord in His death, but that is not the thought in the Lord's supper; there is no such phrase in the Scriptures. It is a living glorious Person, viewed as absent from us, that we remember. Through the Spirit He can come to us, as He promised, making His presence very real. It is Himself, not a representative, an angel, as in Old Testament times.

H.S. Do we bring Him in in contrast to the action of those who cast Him out?

J.T. Quite so, from our side; He comes in also.

A.W.R. It is where true affections are in flow. He says, "If any one love me ...", John 14:23.

J.T. Yes. The Spirit is given on that ground -- "if ye love me", the Lord says. It is a question of the state of the saints. If the state be right there is power in the mind to bring Christ in. He is livingly in the mind by its own action, but, as already said, He also comes.

G.E. Would not the Spirit occupy us with the varied glories of Christ on different occasions? We would start with the greatness of His personal glory, but we could not take them all up; there is a great variety.

J.T. See what is opened up to us! Heaven is opened up to us in the assembly. The Lord begins the subject by saying, "If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter ...". A real Person, even as the Lord was -- a wonderful thing. The idea in the word "Comforter" is one alongside of us, looking after our affairs; if we are defective in our minds, He will help us. He is ever on our side. If things are to be adjusted, He will do that. By Him we say, "Lord Jesus" in the assembly, and by Him

we say, "Abba, Father". He is also the Father's Spirit, by whom we are strengthened inwardly. And it is by Him that the Lord is the Spirit of the new covenant actively, as seen in 2 Corinthians 3:17, 18.

J.R.W. "I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you" -- is that to be realised by us now?

J.T. That is what we had this morning. What did we see of His glories today? What was impressed on your mind as in the assembly? You cannot expect to see all His glories at a given time; we are not great enough, but He would always present Himself in a distinctive way. In John 17 He speaks of our being with Him to behold His glory.

J.M. Do you think the Lord would engage us with this immediately after the Supper?

J.T. I think there should be scope for it, but sometimes a hymn is immediately given out to the Father. We should be richer and fuller in our service if we had more scope for the Lord, so that He is seen gradually as the Minister of the sanctuary.

J.F.C. The psalm you mention speaks of David giving thanks through Asaph and his brethren.

J.T. Quite so. Christ praises God now in and through the assembly.

Rem. The writer to the Hebrews pieces a number of scriptures together.

J.T. Yes; the whole of the first chapter is taken from the Psalms, showing what is in mind; it is the service of God.

A.W.R. At the end of the psalm in 1 Chronicles 16, all the people say "Amen".

J.T. Yes, all the people.

J.M. After the Supper we have been in the habit of giving out a hymn to God in relation to the covenant. Do you think more room should be made for the Lord Himself?

J.T. That is what we have been saying. Exodus shows how the Mediator becomes magnified. This

chapter, Exodus 24, calls attention to him in a striking way: Verse 1 says, "Go up", omitting to mention the word "mountain" as the place they were going to. They were just to "go up", which in the antitype is a moral thought which should be always present with us. The Lord's supper is in the court of the tabernacle; the testimony of it can be seen by others but going up is a spiritual matter. The position thus ceases to be local, it becomes universal.

P.T.W. Matthew 26:30 says, "having sung a hymn, they went out to the mount of Olives".

J.T. Yes. That is elevation, and it is departure -- they went out from the external position in which the Supper is celebrated.

W.H.R. Would that hymn be to God or to the Lord?

J.T. Well, as it was then, even the giving of thanks by the Lord would be to God, or the Father, possibly to Jehovah -- the Lord would not give thanks to Himself. But it is the teaching governing the Lord's supper that we are now considering. This is in the epistles. We can never understand the gospels till we understand the epistles, and in the teaching as to the Supper, it is called the Lord's supper. That is what we must go by. In celebrating the Lord's supper His absence is contemplated, but it being His supper, we speak to Him.

J.M. One is sure that, the Lord having come in (if we are conscious of it) we should be engaged with Himself, His glories included.

J.T. The book of Canticles is intended to help us, and it shows how love in us takes account of His varied glories. The feminine speaker does not speak to the Lord directly, but the assembly can speak directly to Him. He speaks to her in the Canticles, but she does not speak to Him -- it is more of Him, as the dispensation is different, and she has not full liberty. But now we speak to Him.

F.I. When does the Supper end?

J.T. Well, we should not cut it off immediately after the cup. The collection is in keeping with it, and there is no reason that I see why we should not go on to speak to the Lord, so as to get all that we are capable of at the moment, so as to be enriched for the great final thought -- glory to God in the assembly in Christ Jesus; and the suggestion there is praise in power. I believe the preposition "in" implies this. We move on with Him amongst us, so that His power is effective. "To him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages".

J.R.W. There is no place too high for Him in heaven.

J.T. He has gone beyond all the heavens. That agrees with what we are saying: in Exodus 24 Moses goes away beyond the others, and you have the place; "Come up", says Jehovah, "into the mountain, and be there". That points to the Lord's personal distinction.

S.M.W. You were speaking of subjection as a very important thing.

J.T. It is concurrent with the glory of the Mediator in this book; there is gradual subjugation. In the last chapter everyone, typically, is in his place functioning, so that there is no need now for Moses; that is, as exercising subjugating authority. He cannot enter; the glory fills the scene. Subjection is complete.

A.E.L. How do you use the word "subjugation"? Subjugation what to?

J.T. Well, when the Son has made all things subject, He Himself is subject (1 Corinthians 15). That is one of the functions of the Mediator, to effect subjugation -- we are to be thoroughly subdued. So that every item of the tabernacle is functioning, it does what it should do. It is one of the most important

things to notice. It says, "Moses finished the work", and the glory comes in then (Exodus 40:33).

Rem. The antitype of Christ as Minister of the sanctuary is Moses, not Aaron.

J.T. No. Service in the tabernacle is hardly seen Exodus. It is the tabernacle set up by Moses. It Christ from the divine side, not from ours. Aaron is the minister of the sanctuary; he is seen in this way in chapters 28 and 29, but his service is properly seen in Leviticus.

A.E.L. Moses always had access, Aaron was limited.

J.T. Yes, so that Moses is Christ more than any other in the Old Testament. It says, "The form of Jehovah doth he behold", and of no one else is that said.

W.H.R. In giving praise to Christ would He be free to take His place and lead us?

J.T. Well, not only is there subjugation, but we are enriched. We are full of the thought of His glory, and He now has us in the scene of glory, and we ourselves are "all glorious", because we are "transformed according to the same image from glory to glory", 2 Corinthians 3:18. That is what He is aiming at. "All glorious is the king's daughter within", Psalm 45:13. We are absorbing the glory as we are occupied with it.

W.H.R. He would take His place in the midst, in our expressions of praise to the Father.

J.T. Yes, He has a suitable company now in which to sing to God.

A.E.L. What does it mean when it says, "whence it is needful that this one also should have something which he may offer". Hebrews 8:3?

J.T. Well, that is to some a difficult question. Hebrews has in mind christianity as the new heavenly order of things in which Christ is High Priest, as compared with the Jewish system and its high priests.

What Christ offers as High Priest characteristically is thus spoken of as Himself (chapter 7: 27 and chapter 9: 14). The truth seems to be that chapter 8: 3 takes up the subject of Christ's offering in its fulness, as developed in chapters 9 and 10. The new covenant is connected with it, having in mind that we should draw near to God.

A.E.L. In the last chapter we read "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise ...", chapter 13: 15.

J.T. It is "By him therefore let us offer ..." So Peter says, "... to offer spiritual sacrifices ... by Jesus Christ", 1 Peter 2:5. Of course it is true that He takes what we have and presents it, but Hebrews in the main deals with what is initial and fundamental in christianity, and this particularly as to offerings, and hence the "somewhat" of chapter 8: 3 must, as a high priestly offering, be more than what can be obtained through the saints.

W.H.R. Does the Lord then lead on to the family thought?

J.T. He does. Sonship comes in. That links on with Solomon's part of the service, where sonship is in mind. Solomon is the son, Moses was never viewed in that way, nor Aaron either. When we come to the family side it is seen in David and Solomon.

But what is said in our chapter is very interesting, from verse 12 to the end. It says, "Jehovah said to Moses, Come up to me ..." He said at first (verse 1), "Go up to Jehovah"; and then (verse 9), "Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up". But in verse 12 Jehovah says, "Come up to me into the mountain, and be there". You see the distinction, the personal distinction, there. "Come up ... and be there", the mountain being mentioned as the place.

A.E.L. He is there representatively.

J.T. Yes, the whole passage shows that he is; and Jehovah says, "I will give thee the tables of stone, and the law, and the commandment that I have written, for their instruction" (verse 12). All that is in it, but we are just touching now on the difference between the first going up where there is no mountain mentioned, and the second going up where the mountain is stressed; it is Christ's own place, and by personal right too. It involves the covenant and the fulness of the blood of the covenant.

P.T.W. This is all on the ground of the spiritual conditions being there with the company?

J.T. Yes, but we would not have time to go further into that. We are touching specially on one point, the place that should be given to Christ personally in the service of God, and how this chapter shows it.

F.I. "Moses went into the midst of the cloud", going where no one else could go.

J.T. Joshua, of course, went up, but he is only an "attendant"; he is not viewed here as representing the saints.

Pages 212 - 488 -- "Notes of Readings in New York", 1938 (Volume 143).

SPOIL (1)

1 Samuel 30:1 - 31

J.T. The brethren will be aware that the subject of spoil has been proposed for the readings this season. It was thought that 1 Samuel 30 would be the most appropriate section of Scripture with which to begin -- the term, "David's spoil", being found there. It seems right that we should begin with that as typical of Christ's spoil. There are many other features of spiritual spoil that will doubtless come into view in the Lord's ordering, as found in the Scriptures, but this seems to be the most appropriate one with which to begin, as bringing the Lord before us as acquiring spoil, and that in relation to the great subject of general recovery. The chapter, which as a matter of history records a painful disaster for David, obviously has a wider significance, and points to the recovery in Christ of all that was lost through man's unfaithfulness. (David is to be viewed as an unfaithful man in the immediately preceding history, for he was actually with the enemies of God's people and ready to fight against Israel.) But as found on the spot where the disaster occurred, that is, Ziklag, he rises to a type of Christ as feeling things, weeping until he had no more power to weep, and also experiencing the immediate danger of being stoned. He went through the agony attached to the disaster, but found strength in God, so that the power of God enters into the position, and recovery is on that line. We have this remarkable statement in verse 20: "And David took all the flocks and the herds, which they drove before the other cattle, and said, This is David's spoil". He singled out what he regarded as

distinctly his spoil. There were other cattle there, but he singled out what was to be regarded as his spoil; so that it is very distinctive in this way and stands out for our faith to learn what is peculiarly Christ's spoil.

C.A.M. Would we be warranted in speaking of David as a type of Christ on account of the agony through which he passed?

J.T. Yes. It was on the spot where the disaster occurred, that David was changed. One can understand what heart-searching would be gone through by David, on account of his unfaithfulness being the occasion of it. During his absence Ziklag, which was his own territory, was destroyed, but he had been on his way to fight against the people of God, a most sorrowful thing, and only through the overruling of God was he dissuaded from that course. Now he is back where he should be, and we can understand how the position changes; the real David comes to light.

A.F.M. Do you think that with other things the strengthening of himself in Jehovah his God was mainly the element of recovery to God?

J.T. Yes; and he has recourse to the ephod; he goes back to the divinely appointed way of having to say to God. God has to be approached in His own way. David has recourse to that, so we have David the man of faith here.

C.A.M. This is something like what Jonah went through, being a disobedient man going through the depths in his soul, but the Lord could speak of him as a type of Himself.

J.T. Quite so; that is another good example of a man changing over from the position of an unfaithful man, or sinner, to a type of the Lord Jesus; that there is that power of changing over, is the great triumph of God. It is a question of what God effects in a man; so that he can change over.

A.B.P. Would the expression, "strengthened himself", suggest something inherent?

J.T. That is right; it is not simply an external support that God afforded him, but he strengthened himself; the principle of it was there.

S.P. Was Jehovah preparing him, by weeping, to appreciate the spoil?

J.T. Spoil is the outcome of things being rightly felt. It says, "Then David and the people that were with him lifted up their voice and wept, until they had no more power to weep" (verse 4). That is remarkable -- the depth of feeling.

J.H.E. It is striking that David, being such a mighty man, could be a weeper, too.

J.T. That is the secret of acquiring divine help; it is experienced as we feel things. "When I am weak", one of the greatest servants said, "then I am powerful".

A.N.W. Does not the calling for the ephod, too, indicate a very quick recovery of spiritual instinct?

J.T. I thought that; all these items enter into the Lord's position on the cross (we may view David as a type); how divine order comes into evidence there; how thoroughly the Lord was with God in every requirement in view of His vicarious service upon which He was entering. The thought had been expressed at the commencement of His service -- "thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness" (Matthew 3:15); and at no point is the priest more apparent than in Gethsemane and on the cross.

J.S. Would this be David as seen in feeling things Godward? He lifted up his voice and wept.

J.T. It would be that the depth of his feelings was heard. "God hath heard the voice of the lad", (Genesis 21:17). God hears those cries, and of the Lord it is said, "having been heard because of his piety".

Ques. Would you say more in detail as to what surrounds the Ziklag position and what the Lord

faced in the anti-typical position; what does it represent?

J.T. I think humanity is typified in the captives. You will observe it says, "and had taken the women captives that were in it; both great and small: they had put none to death, but had carried them off, and went on their way" (verse 2). And then it says, "And David and his men came to the city, and behold, it was burnt with fire; and their wives, and their sons, and their daughters were taken captives" (verse 3); the men representing intelligence and power are not there. I think, therefore, it is a question of humanity; that is, from the standpoint of corruptibility. Humanity is exposed to being corrupted by the enemy, and so I think Romans 1 enters into this; in fact, Romans is the amplification of this chapter. Romans does not contemplate us as dead in trespasses and sins, but as alive and corrupted.

Ques. Does the early part of Genesis enter into this, too; the woman is in the transgression? Is that what comes out of it?

J.T. Yes; that is the side that has to be kept in mind. It is the subjective side of humanity. The responsible, intelligent side is represented in the man. Paul says expressly, Adam was not in the transgression. The way the captives are mentioned is to bring out the subjective side; what is corruptible, and that which Satan has corrupted. Romans 1 brings out the terribleness of corruption that Satan effected in humanity.

C.A.M. Romans contemplates that all is secured on the basis of sacrifice and offering; even the nations are offered up.

J.T. Quite so; that is spoil -- the offering up of the nations ... sanctified by the Holy Spirit. And then you see how, in Romans 1, humanity as a whole is in mind, the terrible corruption that men fell into; then in chapter 2 you have the man's side,

so to speak; it is, "O man" (verse 1), as if the Spirit of God takes on the thought of man from the Greek point of view. Why did he boast? Why did he formulate codes of ethics when he was practising the things he condemned? And then the Jew -- "But if thou art named a Jew". These are the two sides of the human race. They represent the authoritative, intelligent side, but both have come under the power of evil; whereas humanity, viewed here in the women and children, gives us the subjective side. They are not slain; but taken just as they were; and, as is obvious, exposed to corruption.

Ques. Is the Jew, as refusing Christ, typified in verse 6, where it is said the people spoke of stoning David?

J.T. I think so.

J.H.E. David's followers were embittered for the sons and daughters; whereas David thought of the wives, involving the assembly typically: "the Christ also loved the assembly, and has delivered himself up for it". Ephesians 5:25.

W.F.K. The Amalekite attacked while David was away. Is there not something in that?

J.T. It was when he was unfaithful. No doubt the pending battle between the Philistines and Israel would be known to the Amalekites and they took advantage of it, but then, too, it was during David's absence. Why should he leave unprotected what was of such value and for which he was responsible? Why was he away? He represented an element that was of God, but evidently wanting; and this appears from the outset until Christ came. He took on the whole great matter and recovered all that had been lost through human unfaithfulness. Only one Man stands out as entirely in the mind of God, and who through redemption secured all for Him.

A.F.M. Do you think with regard to Ziklag that the reason it was taken and destroyed was because it was not fought for and conquered, but was rather received as a gift from Achish to David? It was fortified and made proof against attack.

J.T. Quite; David had not taken care of it, although later it is said that it belonged to the kings of Judah from the time he received it. It was his property, but not properly cared for. Think of the holdings he had there! Typically what was there is what God has in humanity, but held loosely through the unfaithfulness of those responsible, and so was lost.

A.R. Do you mean that the whole race up to the death of Christ was held under the power of Satan in captivity?

J.T. Yes. The general thought, I think, is Romans 1. Then there was the Greek in chapter 2, and the Jew also. These had certain light. Chapter 3 shows what the Jew possessed. He had the oracles of God and should know, but then who was there to look after things? What was of God was allowed to go on loosely; the enemy was allowed to take it; that was the position until Christ came.

R.W.S. It says Ziklag was burnt with fire, but neighbouring cities were just raided; why is that?

J.T. I suppose Ziklag represents the particular point of attack, as belonging to David. It would refer to the particular territory that Satan was after and the treasure that was in it; the Amalekites being a type of Satan took what really belonged to God. Think of the value of these women, the wives of David's men, with no one to protect them! Ziklag, I believe, represents humanity involving divine rights, but without protection.

J.T.Jr. Adam was away when Eve was tempted.

J.T. Exactly; why was he not looking after his wife?

A.R. Do you mean that Christ having come. He was the only Man thinking for God?

J.T. That is right; the facts bring that out.

Ques. The Lord said to His mother, "Did ye not know that I ought to be occupied in my Father's business?", Luke 2:49. Would that not indicate His readiness to stand for God entirely?

J.T. It came out in Him there. He was taking up things for God even at the age of twelve.

A.N.W. He gave Himself a ransom for all; for every man, as well as for the glory of God; He can recover on that ground.

J.T. That is it; it is humanity viewed from the standpoint of Luke's gospel. Paul's ministry comes in there, too, especially Romans, which takes up humanity; but then it takes up all that belonged to God too. So you get terms that are remarkable: "God's glad tidings (which he had before promised by his prophets in holy writings), concerning his Son (come of David's seed according to flesh, marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by resurrection of the dead)". Romans 1:3, 4. He brings out the Lord's relations to what preceded. Then the chapter goes on to show that humanity possessed the knowledge of God, but had given it up, and hence corruption followed. Man was left unprotected; that is the real truth. Chapter 2 of Romans shows that the Greeks and the Jews did no better than any other. The Jews had the oracles of God, but what use did they make of them?

A.F.M. Did not folly mark the human race early? It says, "professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of an image of corruptible man ...", Romans 1:22, 23. That would be after the flood, would it not?

J.T. Well, it was the character of the thing right along. There was no idolatry before the flood, as far as the Scripture shows. Idolatry came in after; so that the post-diluvian world is in mind there.

A.N.W. The characteristic term in chapter 1 of Romans is, "gave them up". He gave them up and they became captives to these corrupting elements.

J.T. Quite so. But there was no man. The prophets bewailed that there was no man; no one to take care of things. God gave them up, but it was because they gave Him up. This passage as a type shows that the men that ought to have been there to protect Ziklag and what was in it were not there. They were elsewhere. They were not serving God then; they were with the Philistines.

Ques. Satan assumed to have possession of all the kingdoms of the earth when he offered to give them to the Lord in the temptation, which would show how dreadful the state of things must have been, would you not say?

J.T. Quite so, showing how the matter then stood.

A.B.P. Would you say that the destruction of Ziklag would suggest the breakdown of man's administration? Scripture says the kings of the earth were assembled against Christ (Psalm 2).

J.T. Quite so; those that should have been protecting the interests of God were not here on God's behalf; were indeed against Him, so that justice miscarried. Pilate was not biased, but he delivered Christ to be put to death, although he knew He was innocent; that is, what was of God was unprotected.

A.F.M. Would Psalm 40 offset all this of which we are speaking? The Lord in coming into manhood says, "Behold, I come, in the volume of the book it is written of me -- to do thy good pleasure, my God, is my delight, and thy law is within my heart" (verses 7, 8).

J.T. I think David answers somewhat to that here. First it says he strengthened himself in Jehovah his God. He evidently took full account of the disaster and felt it, and now having risen to the type, he says to Abiathar, the priest, "Bring near to me, I pray thee, the ephod. And Abiathar brought the ephod near to David. And David inquired of Jehovah, saying, Shall I pursue after this troop? shall I overtake them? And he said to him, Pursue; for thou shalt assuredly overtake them and shalt certainly recover. So David went, he and the six hundred men that were with him". I think he is now definitely seen as a type of Christ moving in the power of God and according to the order of God; he is getting the mind of God in the appointed way; not as Saul sought it earlier from the witch of Endor or from such an oracle as men have had recourse to. David seeks the mind of God in the appointed way and gets it.

J.S. It would show his complete recovery in that way. You see here the direct communications he had with God; not only does he enquire, but he is answered.

J.T. That is what is so very fine; there are direct relations re-established between God and a man here, and now the recovery is on that line.

Ques. Is the ephod here on moral lines, hence the recovery is in connection with the priesthood?

J.T. Yes, that is the idea. The priesthood really means sympathy, but sympathy in intelligence, that while feeling things you are enabled to get the mind of God. It is not mere sentimentality, but sympathy with God and with men, as was perfectly seen in Christ. To know what to do in the crisis you must learn from God, and God has appointed a way, so that Abiathar may be taken here to represent the high priesthood of Christ; the Lord Himself calls Abiathar "the high priest". He comes to light as

having fled from Nob to David with the ephod; he is called a high priest by the Lord Himself; so that we may consider him as representing the whole priestly system as set up in Christ. There is feeling, but there is also intelligence; a knowing how to get the mind of God, so that we are assured of what we are doing.

G.MacP. Does this correspond to the Lord's word, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do"?

J.T. That enters into it, for He felt for humanity.

C.A.M. I suppose in that way humanity and the cross are especially seen in the gospel of Luke. The priestly bearing of the death of Christ is prominent, and humanity is represented in the malefactor. He says, "But this man has done nothing amiss", Luke 23:41.

J.T. I think that is right. Luke brings out the righteousness of Christ upon which priesthood is based. The malefactor and the centurion say, He is righteous; the facts also come out that He is a priest, too, because He speaks to His Father, according to Luke, and asks Him to forgive them, and then gives His reason: Because they know not what they do. That is priestly sympathy; it is compassion upon the ignorant and the erring. So that Abiathar here, I think, is illustrative of that element of the high priesthood of Christ; His feelings as a priest never shone more than when on the cross.

J.T.Jr. Would you say the Lord did not need to say of the ephod, "Bring it near", because it was always there?

J.T. Quite so. The Lord Himself calls Abiathar the high priest, in Mark 2, but the truth was verified in Himself on the cross: as all was being recovered, the priesthood came to light.

A.F.M. What about the two hundred men who were too exhausted to go over the torrent Besor?

Was priestly consideration shown by David in their being allowed to stay by the baggage?

J.T. It shows that David himself was a priest. All that follows brings out David's sympathies, and how he established a statute and an ordinance, that those who abide with the stuff were to share alike with those who go to the battle.

R.W.S. Whom do these six hundred men represent?

J.T. Well they represent what was there pre-eminently of God as attached to Christ. He would dispose of His forces in Gethsemane, you remember; they failed Him, but still they were there. He says of the disciples, "The spirit indeed is ready, but the flesh weak". As to the two hundred men of David, it was only exhaustion that kept them back. David's statute is to bring out that side, in type, the priestly consideration that there is in the heart of Christ for those in conflict with Him. How every right thought is present and operative! What recourse there had been in the history of humanity to familiar spirits, learning, science and so on; whereas the point here is the divinely appointed way of getting light and understanding, by means of the ephod, which was the way the Lord Jesus took.

T.W.H. I would like to ask in connection with Christ's conflict in the garden: it says an angel appeared to Him from heaven strengthening Him. How does the agony passed through accord with the weeping of David?

J.T. It is all there, but, of course, this is only the shadow of that. That was the real thing. The fact that the angel strengthened Him and that He received such service was to bring out the reality of His humanity; in such circumstances He accepted what was provided by God and overcame in all those circumstances.

A.R. In conflict, one of the most difficult things is to know what to do. Do you think we lack in having the ephod and inquiring of God?

J.T. I think that is the lesson to be learned here. It is the divinely appointed way of getting the mind of God, so it is part of the priesthood; without the ephod, the priest cannot function.

G.MacP. So that all the mind of God was present in the Person of Christ on the cross.

J.T. That is right; the mind of God was there, and man was exposed. The "place of a skull" means that all man's way of finding out things has come to nothing. God's way through the priest is the appointed way.

Rem. The Jew took horizontal counsel; whereas priestly counsel is vertical. We get into trouble if God is left out of our reckonings.

A.R. In a crisis we should consider for God and the saints, and have in view the undoing of the work of the enemy.

J.H.E. Speaking of horizontal counsel. Joseph's brethren were looking one upon another.

J.T. Quite so. We do not take on divine traits if we are looking on one another in that way. We are to look on Christ, not to "lift up mine eyes unto the mountains" for "my help cometh from Jehovah".

S.P. Jehovah's word to David's enquiry concerning the troop was, "Thou shalt assuredly overtake them and shalt certainly recover" (verse 8). Then they come to the torrent, which would be something in the way, would it not?

J.T. The torrent would allude to some barrier, something impassable to persons wanting in strength, but nevertheless right with God at heart. Going on to a later part of this chapter, we find Egyptian, a man that actually belonged to the camp of the enemy, becomes a means of the enemy's undoing. That is a remarkable thing, which Romans

brings out; how that man is taken up. Man had been under the power of the enemy and in his service; but man -- as in Christ -- becomes the means of the overthrow of the enemy.

J.S. You see that in Saul of Tarsus, do you not. He was distinctly in the enemy's hand, yet through grace becomes a wonderful vessel.

A.N.W. What are you referring to in Romans?

J.T. The second half of chapter 5: sin having come in through one man, was set aside in Another, in and through whom grace abounded. And elsewhere we have, "For since by man came death, by man also resurrection of those that are dead", 1 Corinthians 15:21. It is a principle entering into the overthrow of the enemy as seen in many instances. Here it is seen in this Egyptian, one who had been a servant of the Amalekites is used to overthrow them.

F.N.W. So that bondmen of sin become bondmen to God.

J.T. That is right. That is just how it works out. We had been bondmen of sin but are now bondmen of God, and our members instruments of righteousness. The man, you will notice, was not dead, although he was very near death. It is the Roman point of view. It is not dead in trespasses and sins; it is like the man that fell among thieves; half dead. He is still capable of resuscitation on the line of responsibility.

J.T.Jr. "For we being still without strength, in the due time Christ has died for the ungodly".

J.T. Quite so; there is life as in responsibility, but without strength.

Rem. David's men gave the Egyptian the means of recovery and sustenance; they seem to take on David's sympathies in this chapter.

J.T. Quite so. It says, "they found an Egyptian in the field, and brought him to David". That is the point. He is the point of recovery in every instance.

"And gave him bread". They knew what to do. It does not say David did it. They brought him to David and they gave him bread. "And he ate". He was ready for the resuscitating means. "And they gave him water to drink, and gave him a piece of fig-cake and two raisin-cakes, and he ate, and his spirit came again to him; for he had eaten no bread, nor drunk any water, for three days and three nights" (verses 11, 12). It would look as if that experience had to be gone through, but now they had means of resuscitation. He is alive enough to take in what is there.

J.H.E. Would they become intelligent as to this in crossing the torrent Besor? It states in John that the Lord crossed the torrent Kidron. Would crossing the torrent here be an appreciation of the death of Christ?

J.T. I think so. You are struck with the intelligence that enters into all this and what David's men could do for this man. They were not acting independently, not one saying, I know what to do for such a case; and another saying, I have had a little experience in medicine and can help him, as in the case of the woman who had "suffered much under many physicians" (Mark 5:26). Here they brought him to David, and, as David's men, they know what to do, and the Egyptian is amenable to their treatment.

Rem. This bringing to David fits in with Chronicles where Saul's brethren went to David at Ziklag.

J.T. That is a point of importance. Ziklag was a place of recovery spiritually; it is our starting point spiritually. Then we come to Hebron and Jerusalem. Ziklag was a place of great importance in view of spoil, the subject which is before us now. David's men knew what to do for this man, and when he was resuscitated, he showed remarkable intelligence. He

was no ordinary man, although a slave. He could give all the information needed. First of all he gives an account of himself. He was servant of an Amalekite. "I fell sick", he said; and further, "We made a raid against the south". The word "south" in the text has a technical meaning, and he used that word. "The south of the Cherethites, and against what belongs to Judah, and against the south of Caleb". You see what an intelligent man he was. This characteristic always marks the work of God in men, as in John 9, for example.

A.C. Is it not remarkable that all this light is brought out through an Egyptian?

J.T. It is remarkable as from an Egyptian of this kind, but he is not an ordinary Egyptian.

A.C. I was wondering whether it did not correspond with what Moses wrote earlier in Deuteronomy 23. "Thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian; because thou wast a sojourner in his land" (verse 7).

J.T. Yes; quite so; he says, "I am a young man of Egypt".

J.S. "We burned Ziklag with fire" (verse 14); as if he was fully in that thing, too.

J.T. Quite so; he was fully conversant with the object of the raid and the accomplishment of it. Then David says, "Canst thou bring me down to this troop? And he said, Swear to me by God, that thou wilt neither put me to death nor deliver me up into the hand of my master, and I will bring thee down to this troop" (verse 15). Think of the intelligence he had! He knew the Amalekites' haunts, no doubt, and their ways.

A.Macd. Would he suggest one whom God had in ambush, such as you have suggested in the cases of Rahab and others?

J.T. That is what I was thinking. One could cite several instances to illustrate this principle on which God acts, using agents in the enemy's camp; they

become the means of its moral overthrow. For example: Pilate's wife; the centurion; the thief on the cross; and Rahab, to whom you referred, and the man that told the dream in the Midianitish camp. All of these are illustrative of what we see here, that if we let God have His way, He will overthrow the enemy.

S.P. Does the food the Egyptian received contribute to his intelligence? It apparently was the food that David's men ate.

J.T. No doubt. If we analyse the food: typically, the bread they gave him is Christ the Bread of life; and water, the type of the Spirit. And then they gave him a piece of a fig-cake, which alludes to the figs as they are together. Figs have the power of stimulation, and raisins have that, too. It is the stimulating power that comes in in spiritual unity.

W.F.K. These foods would be found in the assembly.

J.T. Quite so; David's men had them.

A.F.M. These servants of David were intelligent; they knew how far to go with the man: they brought him to David, and then resuscitated him, as you stated; henceforth it is what he is to David, and what use David makes of him. Is that not an important point for us who seek to serve?

J.T. Quite so. He says to David, "I will bring thee down to this troop" (verse 15); and verse 16 says, "he brought him down, and behold, they were spread over the whole land". He knew where they were.

G.M.W. What is the divinely appointed way that we may proceed with intelligence?

J.T. Just as here; it is the recognition of the priest, he who has the ephod. You have recourse to the priest in self-judgment to bring you into accord with what is seen here in David; thus you will really get the mind of God; no one need be in the dark.

G.MacP. The Egyptian besought that he should not be delivered to his master. Typically he had judged evil in his own heart and would not come under its power again.

J.T. You know where the evil is. The enemy, too, is dealt with where he is. It says "he brought him down, and behold, they were spread over the whole land, eating and drinking, and dancing" (verse 16). That is the situation now. It is a worldly position, and this young man knows it and brings David there.

A.R. In the conflict, there is nothing said about the four hundred men. David is doing everything. Do you think that in matters of difficulty, while certain brethren may do things, it is really a matter of what Christ is doing?

J.T. Yes; and hence the spoil, as we have said, is David's.

F.H.L. Is it not worthy of notice that the whole position is recovered before the thought of spoil comes in? In verse 19 we have, "David brought all back"; we get then the reference to "David's spoil".

J.T. Exactly. "And David recovered all that the Amalekites had taken: and David recovered his two wives. And there was nothing missed by them neither small nor great, neither sons nor daughters, neither spoil nor anything that they had taken: David brought all back" (verses 18, 19). That is the great general position. And then we have this remarkable statement: "And David took all the flocks and the herds, which they drove before the other cattle, and said, This is David's spoil" (verse 20). -- He is singling out what he wants to be understood as his spoil.

J.H.E. Would that be something similar to: "And I have other sheep which are not of this fold", John 10:16.

J.T. Somewhat. The Lord would have us to understand what is His spoil; what He has achieved through the great conflict.

G.MacP. Meaning the saints?

J.T. It is just a question of our understanding what David's spoil is. Here it is, "And David took all the flocks and the herds, which they drove before the other cattle". The other cattle are distinguished; they have their place, too, but it is these particular ones. They are under control; they drove them before the other cattle. They are outstanding, and David says, "This is David's spoil".

J.S. Do you think David had in mind what there might be as sacrifice for God?

J.T. Quite so; there is variety here: "all the flocks the herds", which could be used for that. They were movable, a portable sort of spoil. They are on their own hoofs, so to say; and so we have in verse 26, "And David came to Ziklag, and he sent of the spoil to the elders of Judah, to his friends, saying, Behold a present for you of the spoil of the enemies of Jehovah: to those in Bethel, and to those in south Ramoth ...". He is dealing now with persons who were his friends. The cattle would be ready to send on to the elders of Judah, but they are sent from Ziklag, not from the battlefield. They are sent from where the disaster took place. David is setting things up again. It is a recovered position, and henceforth would be peculiarly David's. Later we see that from this point he rose and rose in eminence until he got to Jerusalem.

S.P. Is Ziklag the administration scene now?

J.T. Yes. It is David now on the ground of victorious recovery, which is the place of the distribution of the spoil of the enemies of Jehovah, to his friends. The places mentioned show where he had been: "all the places where David himself and his men went about". A peculiar kind of affection is expressed in this "present" or "blessing". It points what came out in Christ, after He is risen and

glorified in heaven, thinking of those who had shown Him affection while He was down here.

Rem. So that John the evangelist is given a very special portion, as we see in John 21. The book of Revelation was also given to him (Revelation 1:1, 2).

J.T. I think it is to bring out that where there is affection and loyalty to Christ, you come in for your reward in this way. We come in for our share of the spoil.

A.F.M. These elders of Judah would specially appreciate the recovery that David had brought about. They were his confidants, and knew his mind regarding the kingdom in view of which he had suffered.

E.E.H. Do you regard Paul as presented to the assembly through Ananias as an answer to this as a type? The Lord had said, "this man is an elect vessel to me". Acts 9:15.

J.T. Quite so. What a present he was!

A.B.P. On the same line would you say that Levi was peculiarly Jehovah's spoil as having come out into the lead from the conflict because of the golden calf? These cattle were the ones that were in the lead in this situation. Levi came out definitely on Jehovah's side as peculiarly the Lord's spoil.

J.T. That is right; they are driven before the others.

Rem. When the Lord ascended up on high He gave gifts unto men, and these were a present to the saints.

J.T. Quite so. The twelve represented this immediately, and others followed. There were prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers (Ephesians 4); and other gifts, as we see in 1 Corinthians 12.

Rem. The tenor of 2 Corinthians would seem to include the thought of spoil. It was written under different conditions to those of the first epistle. Paul

had something definite to present to them in the way of ministry that would build them up.

J.T. It is more positive -- the new covenant, reconciliation, and new creation.

A.N.W. Would not spoil go beyond what was lost? Spoil is something more than you lose.

J.T. I should think so. It was David's spoil first -- to call attention typically to Christ's great victory, for what he secured is far more than what was lost. It all takes character from Himself. Then it is also God's spoil.

G.MacP. The apostle brings out the fulness of the blessing which came in through Christ.

J.T. That is the idea. How varied it is! The Lord's affections are seen in it -- how David remembered the places! Take all these names, each would recall something: Bethel, Ramoth, Jattir, Aroer, Siphmoth, Eshtemoa, Rachal, and "all the places where David himself and his men went about". He evidently did not omit any. The whole area that he had been accustomed to visit in his rejection was thought of. We are reminded of Acts 1:21 -- "all the time in which the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us".