Acts 10:1 - 20,44 - 48

J.T. It is hoped that we shall see, as we proceed at this time, that the functions of the Spirit as seen in this remarkable chapter are enhanced, the apostolic function in the twelve apparently receding somewhat. It is hoped that, in taking account of things thus, we may get a fresh view of christianity. It would seem as if the time has arrived for the brethren to review the whole position of christianity and see the bearing of the inaugural period at Pentecost upon the present time as nearing the end. The chapter we have read calls attention in verse 4 to a memorial before God, from among the nations: meaning that there was a distinct movement upward, toward heaven, resulting from the work of God among the nations. No doubt it was more or less seen as Paul came in, but the great departure since has affected it adversely, and it is a question now, whether it is really understood that the position is from heaven, the operations are from heaven. Hence Cornelius is taken up, and although not having yet received the Spirit, his value is such as to give him a place before God above. Then we have the vision to Peter in his ecstasy, and the sheet coming down from heaven stressing the point that things are from above; yet they have not come to stay, for the end is, that they are going up: all is going up. There is the cleansing: "What God has cleansed", not ceremonial cleansing, not what baptism affords, but what God does for men so that they are fit to go up. Along with this there is the acknowledgement of Peter's part in the work according to the divine thought at the beginning, but decidedly

lessened, it appears, in its importance, for the Spirit came in while Peter was speaking, not waiting for him to finish, as if there was something else to come. There is a certain urgency in the stress given to the Spirit, and so correspondingly, a result in men is to be expected, because the preparation is evidently going on in heaven. It has been so always, but evidently stressed at times in order to bring about a better condition amongst the brethren, and state for translation into heaven.

A.J.G. Would you say what there is for us in the fact that the vessel is seen descending out of heaven?

J.T. Well, God intended that christianity should be a wholly heavenly thing, left down here in testimony, but to be taken up again. It was done thrice, as a complete witness to what was there, what God had done among men: the animals being typical of men that He had cleansed, so that they could be sent down and taken up, and taken up finally. It is to impress us with the idea of testimony at this juncture.

H.H. Was there to be a certain change because of God having Paul's ministry in view, which came along soon after this?

J.T. I would say that. It had Paul's ministry in view, because Paul appears in chapter 9, in a miraculous way. The Lord appeared to him and announced that he was an elect vessel to Him; meaning that there were great things in view. The idea of a vessel stressing what was there.

We are directed back to Numbers 9 in which the movements of the tabernacle in the wilderness are depicted, representing the movements of the testimony in christianity. What we have in Acts 10 is perhaps the most remarkable of these movements. It is christianity that is in mind in the tabernacle, and although previous movements in Acts would be also typified in Numbers 9, yet Acts 10 is pre-eminently contemplated. There was no way in the wilderness, and there

is no way now; whatever the nations may supply on the lines of travel, there is really no way spiritually, and we have to see that we understand this movement. It had not taken place yet, of course, but it is doubtful whether it was understood. One line of things, as in the work of the twelve, was proceeding under God; then another comes in somewhat superseding it and enlarging the view.

W.C. Would there be something analogous in the seventy going out in Luke 10 and the Lord speaking of their names written in heaven?

J.T. I think that is a good suggestion, for it brings heaven into view especially from Luke's point of view; of course, Luke wrote the Acts, too. In Luke 2, the Lord is celebrated as born, and the announcement included peace on earth, good pleasure in men. Then the Lord Himself entered on His service, and having sent out the seventy, the view became broadened, and He stresses the fact that the names of the seventy were written in heaven, and that they were not to rejoice in the overthrow of the demons, however important that may have been and is, but rather to rejoice because their names were written in heaven. Then in chapter 19 the multitude say "peace in heaven, and glory in the highest", Luke 19:38, meaning preparatory peace, and the casting out of the devil. The Lord had announced in chapter 10 that He saw Satan as lightning fall out of heaven, Luke 10:18, but there was more than that needed, and the Lord has in mind that there is to be a place found for Himself and the assembly in heaven. It is one of the greatest thoughts, I believe, and there must be ample room found for the Lord as espoused, for the Bridegroom, and the bride. John brings this out more in the book of the Revelation in view of the conflict with Michael and the devil; the devil being cast out, and then the Lord coming out of heaven in a military sense on the white horse. So that Luke makes room for

peace; peace in heaven first, and then the peace on earth announced in chapter 2 would come in its time, but peace in heaven must come first, and that is what is now imminent; that is to say, the clearance of heaven of all evil and the establishment there of Christ and the assembly.

P.H.H. Are you suggesting that the coming of the vessel out of heaven in chapter 10 is to show that the assembly has a heavenly status and a right there?

J.T. I think so, and Peter was to be impressed with that. He had not been, and that would, I suppose, apply to the twelve, and in fact to all the saints up to that time. But in the sheet it is a question of man, and the means God has of cleansing man, so that we should be ready for heaven.

A.J.G. In what does this heavenly status consist? Is it simply a matter of the good pleasure of God, His purpose, or is there something more than that?

J.T. I suppose the angelic word in chapter 2 points to the importance of the incarnation, what God would bring about on earth, in view of Christ coming in in His ministry. But then the further thing is, that He is gone into heaven. Hence Luke says, in chapter 9, "the days of his receiving up were fulfilled". Luke 9:51. That was most important in the eyes of heaven. Luke would bring them out already in many ways. In Luke 9 Moses and Elias were speaking to the Lord on high about His decease which He should accomplish at Jerusalem, implying that He was going out and going up, for already the days of His receiving up had come about: it would be a great event, and Moses and Elias were speaking to the Lord about the way in which this would be accomplished; he would go up to Jerusalem and die there.

In Luke 24 the Lord proceeds to recover those that were straying, but He had more than that in mind; it was not simply to bring them back to Jerusalem, but to bring them back to the assembly, and to furnish

instruction to fit them for the further testimony that He was about to inaugurate among the nations beginning at Jerusalem. He says nothing about the forty days in Luke; He was going up to heaven; that was what was in His mind. It was not to be delayed, because the administration that He was taking on, that the Father had given into His hands, would be from there. He went up, He was carried up, we are told. It is not John's point of view, Luke is expressing heaven's delight in Christ, in accord with Paul's word, that He was "received up in glory", 1 Timothy 3:16. It was to give effect to what He had in mind, and, however long that has taken to accomplish, for it is still going on, it was a matter of prime importance in the Lord's mind, that He should be in heaven, that He should go up. Some of us were speaking of Elijah saying to Elisha, If ye see me when I go up. That is to say, we are reminded of the importance of what is in heaven, and what God had in mind heaven should be, with men in it. The first thing is peace in heaven and that is with man in it, with Christ in it.

Ques. Does that await the presence of the assembly, "peace in heaven"?

J.T. I would think so. The conflict with Michael and the devil would mean that the evil is not to be tolerated there. God must be free in His own domain, and of course we belong to that, and that is the point with us, I am sure. The time of our receiving up has come.

Ques. Is there a particular point in the straightway in Acts 10:16: "this took place thrice, and the vessel was straightway taken up into heaven". Does it show that there is a need of urgency, that as soon as the testimony is finished, there is an immediate and forthwith movement to catch the vessel into heaven?

J.T. Very good, that is just what it is: "the vessel was straightway taken up into heaven", Acts 10:16

Ques. Do you think we are nearing that time?

J.T. I do indeed. I think we can see there is such a

movement among the brethren in this country and generally.

W.C. Would you say something about the description of the great sheet and then the vessel?

J.T. There is a link between this and the word "vessel" in chapter 9: "this [man] is an elect vessel to me", Acts 9:15. It is an operative idea, both in Paul as a vessel and the vessel alluding to the assembly. The passage in 1 Corinthians 12:12, "so also is the Christ", would allude to the anointed vessel; that is, to what is operative in testimony, but it is to be there in a numerical sense in "many" for God's pleasure as well as Christ's.

W.C. Would the sheet refer to the great expanse of God's operations?

J.T. I should think the idea of a sheet would be that; it is called a vessel.

Ques. Do the contents of the sheet refer to the results of Paul's ministry in the way it embraced all the Gentiles?

J.T. I think so. "For God is one, and the mediator of God and men one, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony to be rendered in its own times", 1 Timothy 2:5. Paul said that his testimony extended from Jerusalem round about to Illyricum, pointing to a vast expanse of territory, and it was in order to get the assembly out of it. I believe that is the position exactly, and hence certain allusions in the Acts point to the West being in mind for the particular property God had and which He needed in heaven.

Ques. Does the cleansing involve the removing of features not pleasurable to heaven and the producing of features in which heaven can find its delight?

J.T. Quite so. Hence baptism is intended to result in that; it is not a mere sacrament to give people an outward status on earth, but intended to be a cleansing matter. Paul writing to Titus says that "according to his own mercy he saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit", Titus 3:5. That is in

God's mind, a real washing, and the renewing of the Holy Spirit coming in upon it.

P.H.H. As Peter was in an ecstasy he beholds the heavens opened. Does an ecstasy lead our minds to think of something heavenly?

J.T. I think God is making him fit for the great matter, for there would be certain joy in what he had, in the "ecstasy". He needed adjustment, but it was to be a pleasant one, so to speak: it was God's own operation, and through it, Peter is made ready and then, "the Spirit said to him". The Spirit is the one of the divine Persons who acts here. It says in verse 19, "as Peter continued pondering over the vision, the Spirit said to him, Behold, three men seek thee; but rise up, go down, and go with them, nothing doubting, because I have sent them". Acts 10:19,20 The Spirit is asserting Himself and speaking. Peter would understand that his own apostleship is not now the point, although it remained, of course, for he had the keys, but there is a widening out of the position; that is, the tabernacle of witness is moving into a wider sphere. I believe that is what is in mind; the Spirit of God Himself is in charge of the operations. It is not the Lord, nor God, it is the Spirit Himself, emphatically; He says, "because I have sent them". Acts 10:20. The Spirit is in charge, so to speak, and it is for us to see whether we can readjust ourselves if we are not adjusted already to the truth of the Spirit's presence and operations, and make Him everything. Let us see whether the gifts that are operating are really under Him, whether the whole service is under the Spirit and whether it is all in accord. For we cannot but see that in the Spirit's coming and taking over believers, Cornelius and his company, there is a certain slight on Peter's ministry, although he is not affected adversely at all, for he accepts it, and says that God is doing the thing, taking it, as it were, from His hand.

Ques. Would this be one of the cases where the

Spirit would come in and take of the things of Christ and make them known?

J.T. Just so, it is a wide thought. It is God, the Spirit of God, acting, because Peter's comment afterwards is, "I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, John baptised with water, but ye shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit. If then God has given them the same gift as also to us when we had believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who indeed was I to be able to forbid God"? Acts 11:16,17. It was God, but then the Spirit taking it on by Himself is to be noticed, because it points to the place He has had ever since in christianity.

Ques. Do we need discernment to see who it is that is acting, for with Cornelius at the beginning of the chapter it says, "an angel of God" appears to him; he addresses him as Lord, but here it says the Spirit sent Peter.

J.T. Well, Cornelius was quite right. It was in keeping with the moment that it should be an angel, but it was a remarkable thing that Cornelius had already built up a memorial before God; that is a thing I am sure ought to be observed. In the passage before us, it is not an angel, but the Spirit Himself.

Rem. Would you say a little about the memorial from amongst the gentiles.

J.T. It points to what God was doing among the gentiles. In fact, He had been operating, we might say, for long, even during Israel's brightest days, God was carrying on His work amongst the nations. He is the God of the nations, but now it is a fuller thought. Here is a man, as we get in Romans 2, who is already anticipating christianity; in the mind of heaven it was so, for it is said, "Thy prayers and thine alms have gone up for a memorial before God", Acts 10:4. There is no idea of a new family being started, or being in mind, in God taking up Cornelius, although he possessed qualities according to God in his prayers and his alms, but he is being prepared for the assembly, for the great sheet, there

is no other: the great sheet represents what is current now.

Rem. So being let down by four corners would be the universal position as such.

J.T. Quite so; showing it is held there, I might say, too; it is held firmly.

Ques. Is the Holy Spirit expressing His delight in the increased liberty He had among the gentiles in Cornelius?

J.T. I think it is well that that should be noticed: it is the delight divine Persons have in the current operations. For instance, in Luke 15, how the divine Persons are seen engaged in delight in the prodigal's return.

A.J.G. Does it really involve that God is moving freely now among all men and that in connection with His best thoughts?

J.T. His best thoughts; I am thankful you said that, for we are to keep to His best thoughts in all our services, and make way for them. If it be the assembly and its use, the vessel here, we should have the best thoughts of God about it, and not drag it down to the level of ordinary matters.

Ques. Is that seen in the contrast between Peter and Dorcas? She could make memorials on earth, but there were no prayers or alms of hers, or memorial of her taken account of in heaven.

J.T. That is a good point. It comes in at the end of Acts 9, in Peter's own ministry. Peter was sensible of the change that was coming in, for it is said of him, in that section, that he went to all quarters, corresponding to the sheet, with what was in the mind of God, showing how, in our sensibilities as christians, especially if we are spiritual, we anticipate what may come out in testimony. So Peter said to Aeneas, "rise up, and make thy couch for thyself", Acts 9:34. This is instruction as to how the truth should work out in localities, that the brethren

should do things for themselves, and not be always writing to others at a distance and asking them questions. If we relied more on the temple of God in the place, I am sure we would get our questions answered quicker and better than by writing three thousand miles away. Acts 9:32 would indicate that Peter was ready for all that was about to transpire in his outlook on the Mediterranean and what he saw at Joppa. As to Dorcas, the widows who were weeping for her were all put out, showing that Peter was alive to the position. He was in full accord with what was coming in, at least in chapter 9.

E.R. In the preaching Peter says, "he is Lord of all things", Acts 10:36. Would that involve the Lord's universal operations?

J.T. Quite so; all things. Another thing that arises in connection with that point is brought out in Mark 8. The man at Bethsaida was taken up, the blind man whose eyes the Lord opened, and the final result was that he "saw all things clearly". That is just the point at the present time, that we should see all things clearly, not only all persons, but all things, involving principles.

Ques. Has the thought of piety a large place in this section?

J.T. That is what is said of Cornelius. "A certain man in Caesarea, -- by name Cornelius, a centurion of the band called Italic, pious, and fearing God with all his house", Acts 10:1,2. Another point to be noticed, is that his house is brought into it, anticipating what Paul would enlarge on.

Ques. Is Cornelius an example of "patient continuance of good works", as we get in Romans 2:7?

J.T. Just so, anticipating christianity really.

Ques. In verse 2 we read that he "gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway"; Acts 10:2, but in verse 31 the angel said, "thy prayer has been heard, and thy alms have come in remembrance before God", Acts 10:31. They are reversed in verses 2 and 31. Is one Godward and the

other manward; the quality of the man showing itself in those two ways?

J.T. Just so. Giving much alms to the people, not to the poor exactly, but to the people, which is quite right too. We do not need to withhold our giving if there is any legitimate need, until the person is at his last resource. The only thing is, "Let not the assembly be charged", 1 Timothy 5:16, but we are to give bountifully if the man or woman is in need, or has not quite enough to take care of his family; it is the people here.

Ques. You mean that alms come under the heading of personal giving?

J.T. I think that is the way it stands, and there is plenty of room for that, but do not let the assembly be charged, making it a drudge, letting it pay all the bills. It is not right, it is not in accord with heaven, or the dignity of the assembly.

Ques. You mean we should follow Cornelius' example in the way of individual giving?

J.T. Yes: they did in Acts 11 at Antioch. There is plenty of room for individual giving, but let us never forget that the assembly is a great vessel; a great and glorious institution that God would honour; that, in fact, it is spoken of as being akin to Christ. The point that Abraham made was that Rebecca must be of the same family as Isaac: so she must not be degraded.

H.F.N. Would you say a little more about the thought of Isaac being kindred with Rebecca?

J.T. Well, it is a well-known passage. Years ago it used to be greatly stressed, with Hebrews 2, that the brethren of Christ are akin to Christ, they are of the same order, the same family; they are not deified, of course, but they are sons of God, they are children of God; it is a question of lineage, the matter of birth and family. Everything in Scripture as to the assembly is to be kept at its proper dignified level.

Ques. How should the matter of providing for the

food of the brethren during the interval at such a meeting as this be regarded? Is it an assembly matter, or does it come under individual giving?

J.T. I think it is individual. It should be done by the brethren, of course, but done as if you were entertaining them in your house, at your table. It is not on the level of the Lord's supper where we eat and drink as an act of fellowship. The point to understand is that it is not on the same level as the fellowship of the Lord's supper. The use of the word fellowship in the Lord's supper, is on a different level from ordinary eating and drinking. There may be persons here today, perhaps not converted at all, or not in fellowship, but they partake of the bounty of the saints: that in itself shows it is not on the same level as the Lord's supper, and the assembly must be maintained on its proper level. The Corinthians were not doing this.

Ques. Do you mean that because it is not on the level of the Lord's supper, it is not right to meet the expenses from the collections taken on that occasion?

J.T. Quite so. There are plenty of means of meeting the matter without trying to put it on the same level as the Lord's supper. There is great need for careful analysis of the scriptures that treat of the Lord's supper. One observes that the idea of a memorial is hardly touched with many. We hear of the Lord being remembered in His death, whereas the memorial is of Christ in heaven, alive as He is now; it is to recall Him, to bring Him back to mind. So in order to have the facts of it, the Lord clearly considered what had been done and how loosely things had been done, and gave the facts to Paul after He rose. The record of the Lord's words to Paul is in 1 Corinthians 11, beginning with verse 23 and reaching down to the record as to the cup, and some things we get in the gospels are left out. The Lord omits certain things that are mentioned in the gospels, and He adds certain things that are not

mentioned there. Similarly, in Exodus 12 the passover is given by Jehovah to Moses at length, but when Moses gives it to Israel it is greatly reduced, it is epitomised and some things added. There is great correspondence between the two incidents; what Moses did in recording the passover and what Paul did, and what the Lord Himself did, in recording His supper.

A.M. Is the memorial of an absent Christ?

Ques. Is it not to make way for the realisation of His presence?

J.T. It is well to stress the absence, to make way for Him, for His love: for it is a love matter, and hence the importance of clearing our minds, so that all we are is excluded for the moment in order to give the Lord a good time, speaking reverently; to give Him what He is looking for, the joy that is set before Him in principle.

Ques. Why have we practically no instruction in Paul's ministry as to the meeting of righteous obligations incurred assemblywise?

J.T. I think the matter of righteousness ought to have the first place with us. The brethren ought to see that as to the matter of a room in which to meet, and fuel, and the like, it is obvious that these things should be met. I believe the Lord counts on our knowing something. There are many things He leaves to us; for instance, if He said, "Give ye them to eat", Luke 9:13. He meant they should know what to do.

Rem. I was trying to get clear as to the difference you would make between righteous obligations, as we speak of them, and expenses incurred in relation to the food.

J.T. I would make a difference as to the rent of a room, for a room had to be provided for the passover and other things, such as a loaf laid on the table and all the accompanying things, but when you come to eating and drinking, for our physical needs, because of our weakness, you are on other ground. The Spirit of God

differentiates between that, as already said, and the Lord's supper, the assembly.

W.C. In what he said in 2 Corinthians 8:21, "for we provide for things honest, not only before the Lord, but also before men", is he just covering in a brief way the matter of righteous obligations?

J.T. I think so. I think generally he would leave them with us. There are many things the Lord leaves with us.

A.J.G. You are pointing out that in Corinth the apostle connects eating and drinking with our houses, and thus distinguishes it from what is proper to the assembly?

J.T. Quite so, that is plain enough, and it helps as to other points as well.

P.H.H. In the hiring of this hall, is there not a testimonial matter which bears on the assembly?

J.T. I think there is. What we are engaged with just now is on a high level -- the great things of God. I would have no difficulty as to the assembly being charged with the rent of a hall like this for that purpose.

Rem. If a collection were taken on such an occasion, there may be many amongst us not in fellowship, but enjoying what may be provided, who would wish to contribute. It would be very hard to obviate that if a box were passed round.

J.T. It could easily be announced, that it is only for those in fellowship. After all it is only a matter of a meal.

Rem. In using the term fellowship meetings, I do not think it has been in our minds that the eating and drinking then is on the same level as the assembly.

J.T. Well, it has been the same giving, from the same box.

Ques. Would the giving of Barzillai bear on this matter at all?

J.T. Well, Barzillai was one of the people in David's realm.

Ques. Who should be the recipients of a bounty?

J.T. We can take what was said to Paul, that he should remember the poor, which he said he was always diligent to do, Galatians 2:10. He directed the brethren in Corinth to lay by on the first day of the week according as God had prospered each of them, for the poor 1 Corinthians 16:2.

Ques. At Philippi they ministered to the apostle freely.

J.T. Quite so, that is customary. We are not referring to what the brethren are doing in that relation.

A.J.G. Is what you are saying now all flowing out of the heavenly dignity of the assembly as a distinctive feature of this dispensation?

J.T. That is it. The great thing is the vessel coming down out of heaven.

Eu.R. Does the vessel coming down and being caught up into heaven involve origin and destiny, and in being caught up finally that in her testimony here the assembly is heavenly all the time?

J.T. Quite so, just as the Lord came down and went up.

There are further points in this chapter, Acts 10, that are most interesting. In verse 35 Peter speaks of those who are "accepted with him", and then he goes on to preach the gospel to them. And in verse 43 it says, "To him all the prophets bear witness, that every one that believes on him will receive through his name remission of sins", Acts 10:43 and then it says, "While Peter was yet speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were hearing the word. And the faithful of the circumcision were astonished, as many as came with Peter, that upon the nations also the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out", Acts 10:43 - 45 "And he commanded them to be baptised in the name of the Lord", Acts 10:48. So that Peter's position is clear He was preaching the word and the Spirit of God

intervened and took charge, as it were, of the persons who were hearing. It says, "While Peter was yet speaking these words the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were hearing the word", Acts 10:44. The position is clear and dignified, but the Holy Spirit is greatly emphasised in it, and it is shown that what happened at Pentecost is now happening, only in an additional way; and perhaps what the Lord would help us to see by this is, how recent happenings are intended to prepare us for other things, for a wider view of the truth and that there may be more preparation for the ascension.

A.W. Would you say a word as to why Peter here baptises them in the name of the Lord, but in Matthew's gospel, where it is a question of discipling the nations, they are said to be baptised to the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

J.T. Matthew, I think, has the full thought of christianity in mind, but what Peter said here is also in keeping with the truth of course.

Ques. Was it to bring them under the recognition of the authority of the Lord here?

J.T. Yes, I would think that. There is power in the thought, "in the name of the Lord". They are brought under the protection of the Lord, but there is power involved in it, so that christianity is a real thing if anyone wants to come into it.

Ques. You would use both terms in baptising?

J.T. I always do, myself.

Rem. In chapter 19, verse 5, it is baptised "to the name of the Lord Jesus", Acts 19:5.

J.T. Yes, it is in here. Chapter 19 would make the Lord more definitely an object, a centre; whereas here the in, as has been remarked, would I think imply protection and power. Christianity affords that to those who come into it.

Ques. What is the significance here of the Holy Spirit falling on unbaptised persons?

J.T. I think to stress what we have already remarked, that the Spirit of God is emphasising Himself as a divine Person. He is having to do with the matter, and why not? It is a divine matter. Already an unbaptised person is said to have established a memorial in heaven by prayer and almsgiving. The people are listening to the word; they are honoured in that sense, the Spirit honours them. All this enters into christianity, and what is involved in it.

E.C.M. Would receiving the Holy Spirit be in view of Cornelius coming into the assembly?

J.T. Yes, he would now be in it. He would know ultimately, by teaching, that what Peter saw in the vessel come down from heaven, was really the assembly.

Ques. So that if anyone desiring to break bread had not been baptised, it would be necessary for them to be so?

J.T. I would think so; they were baptised here. Peter commanded them to be baptised.

Ques. Would you expect the Spirit to come on unbaptised persons today?

J.T. I do not see why He should not. The Spirit did it here and we cannot complain of what He did. I think we need to leave it as it stands. I do not know that the apostles themselves were baptised.

Ques. What is the difference between words and word in verse 44. "While Peter was yet speaking these words the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were hearing the word", Acts 10:44. Does that honour Peter's choice of language as in the power of the Spirit he was preaching? Would the word in the second use of it be the impression conveyed? "These words" would be honouring what Peter actually said, but "the word" would be the logos.

J.T. I think that is good: I am sure the Spirit would do that.

E.C.M. A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.

ADMINISTRATION

Matthew 26:20; Mark 14:17; Luke 22:14; Acts 2:42 - 47

J.T. The subject is administration, and the passages that have been read from the gospels are to call attention to the idea as in the Lord's mind as He instituted His supper. The passage in the Acts is to show how it was in the apostles' minds after the Lord went up to heaven, and after Peter's great gospel address which gathered in so many. It is said of the converts, as has been read, that "they persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers", Acts 2:42. It is thought that the idea of administration enters into christianity in a leading way, involving the whole dispensation, involving too, the unity that was initiated to mark it; so that assemblies were to be regulated by the same principles, as is said by the apostle Paul: "thus I ordain in all the assemblies", 1 Corinthians 7:17.

The place that it had with the Lord in view of His supper, the institution of His supper, is what is now in mind. The Lord's supper, at least outwardly, is the centre of the service of God, and it involves the administration entering into it, even if it be the gospel, but especially the service of God. It has been observed that great looseness has been in activity in regard to certain features of the government of the house of God, and the order of the assembly. It is hoped that the Lord may help us to see that unity is required, that heaven requires unity in all that is done. There is no room for individuality in an independent sense, of congregationalism, as it is called, where each assembly has its own rules. The idea in the assembly of God is unity, and yet things are done that should be done, that are needed to be done; so that in each case in the synoptic gospels, in

each verse read, it will be noticed that the Lord came with the twelve; "And when the evening was come he lay down at table with the twelve", Matthew 26:20. Much else has to be said, of course, bearing on the passage. Then the same in Mark; but in Luke there is considerable variation. It is said by Luke that "when the hour was come, he placed himself at table, and the twelve apostles with him", Luke 22:14; as if the Lord was accompanied in each setting. The same thing is alluded to in each gospel, but the variation marked, that the Lord would have those with Him that represented administrative order.

G.C.S. Would the apostles represent the authority, but the number twelve the authority of love?

J.T. The apostles would always designate authority, I would say that, but love would probably be more in evidence in the number twelve.

A.Mh. Would there be the thought of moral suitability with the twelve in Matthew, conditions morally suited for the occasion?

J.T. The fact that He lay at table would show that. I think that things were in order; that, for the moment at least, there was no element of hostility, but the word apostles would stress the thought of authority.

N.K.M. Why do you think that Luke specially stresses authority?

J.T. I think it is according to grace, so that it should be free. Luke has in mind the throne of grace, and that would be guarded by apostolic authority; not necessarily involving any punitive action, but the basis of authority is there. The apostles is the point: "the twelve apostles with him" We are apt to take licence when grace is dominant, and the Lord, I think, would guard the throne. The throne itself conveys the idea of authority, but it is a throne of grace, meaning that grace is dominant; and all should have to do with that throne. It would guard the idea: christianity requires it: the

thought of grace, and that it should be dominant. Hence the kingdom of God is greatly in evidence in Luke. We know how grace has been disregarded in the order of christendom, and how despite has been done to "the Spirit of grace"; how we are all prone to take advantage of grace, if it is reigning, but it is a most remarkable thing that it is reigning.

Ques. Is it your thought that administration flows out from the Lord's supper?

J.T. I thought that. It is a gracious occasion, a time of eating, too: a time of eating which always denotes grace. The Lord would take advantage of that to bring forward the idea of administration. It is worth while having part in the divine economy now functioning since the Spirit has come.

P.W. Why is it evening in Matthew and Mark, and the hour in Luke?

J.T. I think the hour in Luke would cover the latter days of the dispensation. Luke has to do with Paul's ministry largely. I think the evening was used, even in Paul's time, in the Supper. Yet, undoubtedly, there was a foreshadowing of the alteration in conditions, so that the hour is more the question now. The hour of the day; not the lateness of it, but simply the particular time. We should observe time, which is perhaps little observed, but it enters into the divine economy, even as to the day in which the Lord's supper is celebrated. I suppose the Spirit gave Luke, who is always concerned as to order or method, to mention the hour. When it was come the Lord placed Himself at table, the twelve apostles being with Him. Placed is another word the Lord uses.

A.S.K. Does the idea of placed convey dignity?

J.T. Quite so: I think that is good, because we all know how hosts or hostesses look for punctuality at meals, and it certainly should enter into the Lord's great matter of eating.

A.S.K. So, without disparaging the setting in other gospels, is it in your mind that Luke's and Paul's ministries give us our dispensation?

J.T. I would say that everything awaited Paul after the inauguration of the economy in Acts 2, although the twelve ministered and were controlled until Paul was selected. When he is selected he is called by the Lord, "an elect vessel to me", Acts 9:15, as if he was particular and things would take form, actually agreeing with heaven; a fixed situation in heaven, I would say.

A.S.K. Luke and Paul stress particularly the heavenly side of the Lord's supper.

J.T. That is what I understand. So Luke begins his second narrative with what the Lord "began both to do and to teach", Acts 1:1; what He did, and what He taught. What He did would cover all we are saying; whatever entered into the economy on the line of administration would be in mind, and that the teaching would establish it, make it fixed. Paul, I would say, under the Lord, set up a fixed situation which has continued longer than has been anticipated, but the Lord knew, and we have come into remnant times now. The danger in remnant times is always to be lax or loose, but Luke would say, the method continues, things are fixed; and hence the terrible indictment of christendom in all its sections, the disregard for what is fixed under the Pauline regime. Hence, Paul stresses, "what I say". For instance, in 1 Corinthians, which is particularly representative of what we are saying, we see how much is made of Paul's authority, and the reasons for the things that he stresses, as, for instance, the matter of covering the head, and that in which he will not brook any disputation.

A.S.K. "If any one think himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize the things that I write to you, that it is the Lord's commandment", 1 Corinthians 14:37.

J.T. Just so: "it is the Lord's commandment" -- one

idea; that is, christianity is in mind. It is one great idea, covered by the idea of the commandment of the Lord.

Rem. You cannot add to it or take from it.

J.T. Quite so.

P.H.H. Are you thinking of assembly exercises generally as seen in Corinthians, or specially of the Lord's supper?

J.T. The Lord's supper, as the very centre of all; that is really what is in mind in reading these scriptures, because, they make much of the Lord's supper, even in Acts. Nothing has been disregarded so much in christendom as the order attaching to the Lord's supper. So, if there is anything the Lord would guard, it is that any of us who are loyal to Him should hold to the principles.

H.G. What had you in mind as to how the Supper would bear on us in view of administration?

J.T. The order that was disregarded as at Corinth. The conduct in the gathering there was really amazing, that it should begin so early after Paul left; that they should do just what they wished to do without any regard for the order that the Lord had established through Paul. So the apostle says in entering on the point, "I do not praise", 1 Corinthians 11:17, really speaking to them as if they were children; indeed, they were in their conduct. "What shall I say to you? shall I praise you? In this point I do not praise. For I received from the Lord, that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus, in the night in which he was delivered up, took bread, and having given thanks broke it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me", 1 Corinthians 11:22 - 24. Then again, "In like manner also the cup, after having supped, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye shall drink it, in remembrance of me", 1 Corinthians 11:25. Now he tells them that he had delivered these things to them before, which would not be very long before, and why should they turn aside from them? Is it not to

remind us that we are so apt to disregard what appears to be non-essential, whereas it is the commandment of the Lord we are disregarding.

G.C.S. Would it be that if we are loose as to the Supper, we are loose as to all other administration?

J.T. I would think that. The commandment of the Lord can never be a non-essential. It may be that it seems to be a non-essential in order to test us whether in everything we are obedient.

A.Mh. Would the disciples assembling together to break bread on the first day of the week, Acts 20:7, give the idea of the administration in a right and proper way, in right conditions?

J.T. I think, so far, it would. Paul's discourse would be irregular in that sense, but it was because it was necessary: as if he would say, I have to say much before you break bread, because you are not doing it properly. So we are reminded that Paul has the last word on that point, and, indeed, in all matters relating to the assembly. What he received from the Lord as to the Supper is of somewhat less volume than what is seen in the gospel narrative. He adds and subtracts. So in 1 Corinthians we have especially the memorial attaching to the cup, which we do not find anywhere else. We find constant allusions in our statements to the Lord, such as 'to remember Thee in Thy death', whereas, it is to remember Him, not anything He has done; not that that would be belittled, but it is to remember Him, and, especially as to the cup, that it is called a memorial, 'for the calling of me to mind' (see note to verse 24), as the apostle says, quoting the Lord.

P.H.H. Would you say that the mind has to be fully under control and directed into certain channels?

J.T. I think that is what is implied; the mind is under control, and if it is not it will lead to irregularity or looseness. 'For the calling of me to mind'. It is the Person who acts on the mind; the mind is supposed to be under

His control. Hence the importance of disengaging oneself from aught else, so that the mind should not be affected by aught else but what the Lord said.

Ques. How do we come to the Supper? As brethren in John 20, or as in the Song of Songs 8:5, "Leaning upon her beloved"?

J.T. I would say, as disciples, meaning that we are learners; everything we are doing, we have learnt to do. But what we are as His brethren would come in in its place; what we are as of the assembly would come in in its place: and what we are as the sons of God would come in in its place. But the idea is of teaching; "all things which Jesus began both to do and to teach", Acts 1:1. So, in the passage read in Acts 2, "they persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles", Acts 2:42, these two things particularly; they persevered in these two things, what the apostles instituted and confirmed under the Lord's guidance. It is to stress the authority of the apostles.

J.McM. Are you seeking to bring before us the light that governs us as we sit down together?

J.T. Yes, but particularly as to administration, meaning, the way things are done.

A.P.A. Paul says: "Be my imitators, even as I also [am] of Christ", 1 Corinthians 11:1. Is that a question of what he did, before he touches on the teaching?

J.T. The word imitators is, of course, important, and it bears on what we are speaking of. The idea of imitators is to pass on from Paul to ourselves, "as I also ... of Christ".

P.H.H. You referred to the cup, especially the cup. We have been helped in past years to link up the cup with the love of God, the new covenant in that aspect, and now we seem encouraged to link it more with the Person of Christ and His love. Would you help us as to "the new covenant in my blood"? 1 Corinthians 11:25.

J.T. It is not to be in the least ignored or minimized:

"the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye shall drink it, in remembrance of me", 1 Corinthians 11:25. It is for a "remembrance of me", which you do not get in Jeremiah. That is the thing to be borne in mind. It is given by the Lord Himself first and then through the apostle. As Moses delivered formally the instruction as to the passover to Israel, he reduced certain things, omitted certain things that had been in the body of the instruction and he added certain things. He reduced the volume, as anyone will see if he looks at Exodus 12. The passover, the great sacrament of Israel, is given by Jehovah to Moses in the body of the chapter; but from verse 21 to verse 28 Moses, of his own volition, furnishes what the Lord instructed him to say to Israel, and as the passage shows, the verses were only eight out of a great many. By addition and subtraction there is a change in the form of words; and now there is a striking analogy in 1 Corinthians 11. The Lord reduced the instructions recorded in the gospels as to the Supper, changing some words, and adding the idea of memorial to the cup; which would seem to point to Paul's position being in mind and would link the ministry of the assembly with what the Lord gave to him. That fits in with what is now called the Lord's supper, the fixity of it; and it should govern us in all our wording as to it. It should be in mind as to all we say as to it.

P.H.H. Would it be right to say that the calling of Him to mind brings before us Christ in glory? Does the glory thus shine upon the Supper more than any other term we might use, such as remembrance of His death?

J.T. Quite so. It is the Lord in glory really; it is the Lord's supper, really a heavenly matter. It is not intended to be carried on by Israel. The Lord's supper in the assembly could not be used by Israel.

P.H.H. So adding the memorial to the cup would be a kind of double testimony to the Lord in that way?

J.T. There is a dual testimony in the Lord's supper,

as if the Lord had such pleasure in it that He would stress it upon our minds. In Emmaus there was only bread, as far as we know; but at Jerusalem it was clearly the Lord's supper, the bread and the cup.

A.Mh. Do you suggest that in the cup our minds follow into deeper thoughts of the Lord's love as we call Him to mind? In this additional thought of remembrance connected with the cup in 1 Corinthians 11, I was wondering whether, as we proceed rightly as under the Lord, calling Him to mind, our thoughts would deepen: there would be an enrichment in the thought of His love.

J.T. I would think so. The word drink carries with it the thought of satisfaction. An important thing for a young christian, that he or she has come into what satisfies. The Supper is there from the very outset of the service, and the Spirit Himself, being there, is going to make everything good to us. There is no doubt the Spirit is alluded to in the drinking.

A.Mh. Would you say that the Lord loves to come to us? Does that cover the whole Supper at that time? One has been concerned as to apprehending the real presence of the Lord with us.

J.T. The Lord is very thoughtful of us. Paul speaks of us as children, and the Lord Himself calls us children in John 20 and John 21. He thinks very tenderly of us and would not leave us orphans, He says. He would have us to go on with the service in the light of the fact that He is cast out of Jerusalem, as the remnant in the future will be cast out of Jerusalem. The Lord was cast out and He counts on our missing Him. He is robbed of His rights and put to death in the robbery. So I think He would be very tender with us and assure us that we are not to be left alone in the matter. As we are patient and proceed in the service, we shall find satisfaction, because the Spirit of God is there Himself, and He sheds the love of God abroad in our hearts; He operates for our satisfaction.

F.I. As to the Lord coming in, is it consequent on the remembrance in the loaf or in the cup as well? Must it be complete?

J.T. Each feature has its place. At Emmaus He was made known in the breaking of bread, He did not stay, He vanished; whereas in the Supper He does stay. The dual character of the thing would mean that He is all the more attracted by what moves in our hearts. He is ready to join in and teach us whatever it may be that we should know. He is ready therefore, as we have been saying: "I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you", John 14:18. But then we must not say He is obliged to come because we call Him to mind. We can never assume that He is obliged to do anything; we must let love have its scope, its way, in Him. Even if He were not so sensibly present at one time as another, we have to look into ourselves as to it and not assume He must come.

J.C. Would the Lord be watching the movements of the heart at that time.

J.T. He would.

Ques. "We being assembled to break bread", Acts 20:7. Would that include the cup?

J.T. I think that would mean that the whole matter was there, the Supper entirely, only, there is this to be said about Troas, that the apostle had something apparently in his mind that they needed in the sense of correction, because the actual Supper did not proceed at once. The fall of Eutychus intervenes, and then we are told they broke bread after that. So it must have been special as pointing to some need at Troas. Another thing to be noticed, I think, is that there were seven brothers there who were representative of Paul's work. If you look at the names given and the places, you will see that they were there evidently for some purpose. All the brethren that are with him seem to show that Troas needed some particular instruction, and the apostle would have the witnesses there so that they would know

how to break bread again. What happened was most distressing, the boy falling down; it was an extraordinary occasion, and cannot be taken as representing the order of the Lord's supper. There was something that had to be corrected. Is that clear?

Rem. It is sometimes thought to be normal and you indicate that it is not quite normal.

J.T. I would say it was an abnormal situation. The fellowship is in the light. "And there were many lights in the upper room", Acts 20:8, which would mean, I think, that those brothers were lights and enhanced the occasion. Paul needed to speak at length, and then the matter of Eutychus should be felt by the local people as involving carelessness; that God should intervene in such a serious matter and that Paul should be so indispensable in the occasion. It is to draw attention to these things. So, in our own times, the Supper has been revived, and the Lord has been pleased to instruct us from year to year and month to month, till it would look as if the brethren had more or less the right thought now. But what we are seeking to do now is to call attention to the need of administration; the want of care in administering the wonderful things of God.

H.G. The apostle says: "Do ye not then know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world is judged by you, are ye unworthy of the smallest judgements"? 1 Corinthians 6:2. Does the Supper come in to bear on us in view of that?

J.T. I think it does; the order that becomes the Supper is seen in the eating. In the remarkable connection that eating is found in connection with the Supper, it would look as if we are reminded that it is a household matter as the passover was a household matter; and the saints will do well to look after their children. Because, if they are not old enough to have part in the institution, they are there and should be taught as to it; the need of holiness there.

P.H.H. Paul says, "we have the mind of Christ", 1 Corinthians 2:16. Does that mean that, as the service of God goes on and rises, whatever is needed in the mind of the Lord should have a powerful place in our minds so that we think along with Him?

J.T. Just so. He is looking for something beyond what the world affords. "I speak as to intelligent persons", 1 Corinthians 10:15. What does that mean? If there were fifty brethren there as well as the sisters, he is crediting them with intelligence and they will soon be tested. They were tested at Troas, I believe, and that is why the apostle had to speak at such length to them. The Lord is thinking of what the house of God is; it is not an ordinary matter at all. The house of God is a heavenly order of things brought down into the presence of persons in this world. It is as if the Lord would say, This is the order of My house, and we are concerned to behave, we are enjoined to behave in it. "If I delay, in order that thou mayest know how one ought to conduct oneself in God's house, which is the assembly of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth", 1 Timothy 3:15. I think the Lord intended His people to be very sensitive as to that. The Corinthians were disgracefully abusing the Supper. Paul says of their gathering together. "it is not to eat the Lord's supper", 1 Corinthians 11:20; you may think it is, but it is not in my mind; that is what he means. Now we have what is from heaven, brought down to earth and it is to be revered; each one knowing how to behave himself there.

G.C.S. "The Lord added to the assembly daily those that were to be saved", Acts 2:47. Would the maintenance of these divine principles preserve us from what is current around?

J.T. Quite so; such as were to be saved. All the children among the brethren are intended to regard themselves as those who are to be saved. Every parent should regard his children in that light. That they are to

be saved would mean that they are saved from all the wickedness and misbehaviour abroad, the unholiness. All that must enter into it: for in the passage we have, "For as often as ye shall eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye announce the death of the Lord, until he come. So that whosoever shall eat the bread, or drink the cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty in respect of the body and of the blood of the Lord. But let a man prove himself, and thus eat of the bread" 1 Corinthians 11:26 - 28 -- it is a question of eating and what accompanies the eating -- "and drink of the cup. For the eater and drinker eats and drinks judgment to himself, not distinguishing the body. On this account many among you are weak and infirm, and a good many are fallen asleep. But if we judged ourselves, so were we not judged. But being judged, we are disciplined of the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. So that, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, wait for one another", 1 Corinthians 11:28 - 33.

They were to have consideration for one another in a comely way. "If any one be hungry, let him eat at home" 1 Corinthians 11:34. How practical the apostle is! It is not a place for ordinary eating and drinking at all; they were despising the assembly of God. "Let him eat at home, that ye may not come together for judgment. But the other things, whenever I come, I will set in order" 1 Corinthians 11:34: meaning, that certain things were still in abeyance, and the point was order.

G.W.B. Are we to move in becoming dignity consistent with the greatness and dignity of the Person we are remembering?

J.T. Quite so. Think of the dignity of the Lord of glory. As has already been remarked, "we have the mind of Christ", 1 Corinthians 2:16, the means of thinking and doing things as He does. That is what is meant; the thinking faculty of the Lord, and knowing how to do things. There should be no excuse for misbehaviour. "I received from the Lord, that which I also delivered to you", 1 Corinthians 11:23.

P.H.H. Would that give us ability to enter into the spiritual levels that were in the Lord's mind? I know you are speaking now more about order, but I am thinking of what we touch if things are in order: the relationships with God and the thought of the greatest things.

J.T. I think the apostle has that in mind. It is implied in all that he says. You are brought into wonderful things: there is nothing like it in the whole universe. It is for you; others have no part or lot in the matter. It is most exclusive, so see that you behave yourselves, so as to be there as you should be, so as to adorn the position.

Rem. Conditions would make room for the Lord to come in Himself.

J.T. So that He can be free with us. He does not need to speak to reprove or correct. So we have the Old Testament types of the Lord's way in the assembly, for example, in the Song of Solomon, where the assembly is seen as coming up out of the wilderness; meaning that she is free from the defilement of it. She was coming up in a comely way. Then it goes on in that very chapter to show what there was; what the daughters of Jerusalem were ready to do, and then the Lord's matter: "in the day of his espousals, and in the day of the gladness of his heart", Song of Songs 3:11. He would be free in that way to be with us in the Supper. The different things mentioned already, such as the idea of disciples, are there. As we leave our houses and come through the streets and sit down, we are clean and light and orderly, and ready for greater things. So when the Supper comes in we are ready for it, and there is the state there that the Lord can come to, and does come to. Then the brethren, what His brethren are to Him; and then what the assembly is to Him. The feminine side comes in there. His time with the assembly, a great and glorious thought! We, the persons who have part in it. Then God's part comes in. The Lord sees to that. That is what we ought to look for and expect.

G.C.S. Is that what you meant when you said the other day that the masculine and responsible side should come first before the feminine side? Should we come up feeling our responsibility?

J.T. I think so. I think the types, especially in Genesis, help us as to the Lord's relations with the assembly viewed as representing the feminine element, of which the Scriptures are very full too, as applied to Israel; but they are also full as applied to the assembly. This is especially seen in the types in Genesis 24; Genesis 26. Then we come down to the other types, such as Abigail. We were noticing recently, in view of the great sorrow that has come in in the removal of our brother, that Samuel died, and all Israel mourned for him; see 1 Samuel 25:1. One verse is devoted to that, and then it says, "David arose and went", 1 Samuel 25:1, and so on. Then Abigail comes into view. The whole chapter is full of Christ and the assembly; not simply Christ Himself, but Christ and the assembly, and that is an immense thing.

A.G. When we come together in assembly, have we all the rights of Christ in our mind? Abigail could speak of what David was coming into.

J.T. She does, indeed! and speaks of him in contrast to Saul. She says to David, "a man is risen up to pursue thee", 1 Samuel 25:29. Samuel was gone; David was everything now. Christ and the assembly immediately come into view: and it is the same today, and ever since the Lord's exaltation to heaven. He has His assembly down here, not Israel, or the nations yet, but "my assembly". He is going on with it.

P.H.H. Do you mean that His brethren would merge in this great feminine thought of the assembly and lead to it?

J.T. The brethren, or the sons, are the persons who form it, but we must understand the feminine side as in the counsels of God.

P.H.H. I understand that, but is there not a feminine

side which is touched in the Supper, the marital affection? Where would you bring that in?

J.T. I would bring it in with the masculine. The feminine is for the Lord's enjoyment. We read of Isaac "dallying with Rebecca his wife", (Genesis 26:8). A remarkable word! And in chapter 24, as Rebecca is about to arrive, "he lifted up his eyes and saw, and behold, camels were coming", (Genesis 24:63); what occupied Isaac was the means by which she was carried. What are we carried by as we come into the assembly? What loveliness is there in it for the Lord? Isaac was not doing very much. He was coming and going to that well, Beer-lahai-roi. It is a question of how much the saints make of the Spirit now; and then immediately the camels are seen. Rebecca alights off the camels, but she had already learnt who the man was. She knew who he was; and, I suppose, the assembly knows: if any know, the assembly knows. Angels of God are taken up with "the all-various wisdom of God", (Ephesians 3:10), in the assembly; not "the all-various wisdom of God", (Ephesians 3:10) by itself, but in the assembly. As I was saying, the Spirit, in type, is now near Isaac's place, and he is not like Joseph, a man of affairs, to take a meal with his brethren; but he is a man of leisure and presently he is "dallying with his wife". The present time is a time of Christ and the assembly; not Israel or the nations; not a universe, but He is devoted to the assembly. So we are told in the types that a man is not to go to war for a year after he has taken a wife; see Deuteronomy 24:5. The Lord wants us with Him.

Rem. In Song of Songs 2:6 "His left hand is under my head, and his right hand doth embrace me". Would that come in?

J.T. Song of Solomon, of course, is full of what we are saying. Although it will have application to Israel, it is really for the present time, and the Lord has made great use of it. I think the brethren will all bear testimony

to that, that the Lord has made great use of "The song of songs, which is Solomon's". Song of Songs 1:1.

H.W. Do you think that is in view of being "ready to depart on the morrow", Acts 20:7? Would that feature be marking us just now?

J.T. They were comforted, ready to recognise all that the Lord did for them through Paul.

Ques. Paul says, "I have espoused you unto one man, to present you a chaste virgin to Christ", 2 Corinthians 11:2. Would conditions amongst us have that in view?

J.T. That shows how Christ was on Paul's side in the matter. He says, "I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly", Ephesians 5:32. Many of us do not speak of the assembly; they speak of Christ readily, but let us speak of the assembly.

F.I. When you referred to the masculine in relation to the feminine, were you referring to Christ or the brethren?

J.T. The brethren represent that part, as we see in Jonathan and David. Jonathan's love to David surpassed the love of women. That is masculine; later it is feminine in that chapter in Samuel. The women went out to sing praises of him, and so "all Israel and Judah loved David", 1 Samuel 18:16.

THE CONTINUITY OF THE MINISTRY

2 Kings 2:1 - 25

J.T. We have to regard Elijah here as more than a prophet; he is a type of Christ, in His ascension and in His inauguration of the dispensation in which we are, and the ministry particularly. The Spirit coming down from the Lord in heaven began the ministry. Matthew contemplates Peter as the first of the apostles, so he may be taken to represent the ministry until the advent of Paul's ministry. The thought is that we should apply ourselves now to the idea of the ministry, and to the continuity of it as it began, for the Lord intends that it should carry to the end the features with which it began. It is clear that Peter led at the beginning, although recognising the others: that is, the eleven; he stood up with the eleven, as we have often noticed; so that the ministry is first to be carried on in unity, according to lead, however, but inclusive of all those to whom the Lord has given ability in it. The Lord has given ability to many and I thought we might see how the ministry is to be continued; that we all think the same thing and say the same thing.

Those who are ministered to will have an understanding and a judgment as to those who are qualified of the Lord, as in Acts 2 the converts spoke to Peter and the eleven; they were all in their minds; it was not to be a one-man affair. It is a one-man affair in the sense that Christ is Head and all flows out from Him, but the thought is, that there are to be many ministers, gifts. The Lord gave gifts unto men, but the idea is that all should work together and all tend to the same end; namely, the building up of the assembly "until we all arrive", as it is said, "at the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man, at

the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ", Ephesians 4:13. So that the assembly as an organism practically works out its own edifying; all the gifts become absorbed in the assembly, for they are accredited to it. It becomes thus a self-edifying organism, edifying itself in love, as it says.

G.P. Would unity be seen in what Paul says? "the Son of God, Jesus Christ, he who has been preached by us among you (by me and Silvanus and Timotheus)", 2 Corinthians 1:19. They were preaching the same matter.

J.T. Yes: preaching the Son of God. The first epistle helps negatively there. Because of the disunity to be met, it is said, "Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all say the same thing, and that there be not among you divisions; but that ye be perfectly united in the same mind and in the same opinion", 1 Corinthians 1:10. This, of course, applying to all the saints at Corinth. "For it hath been shewn to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of the house of Chloe, that there are strifes among you", 1 Corinthians 1:11. There we see that the whole assembly was affected by the division. Not that the gifts were themselves specially in mind in what was said, but the saints as a whole were affected; that is, partisanship marked them, which is also seen in chapter 11.

Ques. Is there any special significance in the fact that the Spirit of God is so emphasised in 1 Corinthians 2 as counteracting the divided state there?

J.T. I thought that; the preaching there is in that very setting, leading on to chapter 3 in which the temple of God is emphasised, and, of course, fits into what we are saying. Paul says, "Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you"? 1 Corinthians 3:16 That fact enters into a meeting of this kind -- the temple.

Rem. I wondered whether you had in mind that it connected with the passage in Kings where much is made of Elijah's spirit as resting upon Elisha.

J.T. That is what is principally in mind, that Elisha was so much with Elijah. It is said, after Elijah had granted his request that he should have a double portion of his spirit, that even the sons of the prophets recognised that the spirit of Elijah rested on Elisha.

W.C. The three levitical families were serving the one tabernacle. It speaks of Eleazar the son of Aaron having the oversight of the whole tabernacle. Does that fit in with the idea of unity in the whole service?

J.T. I think so. Eleazar being specially in mind in Numbers, clearly having the ministry in view in the type. So, as we were saying, the sons of the prophets recognised that the spirit of Elijah rested upon Elisha; that was plain enough; it is prophetic of what belongs to the ministry. The sons of the prophets may have a clear outlook as to who is leading, yet they may be, and were, themselves unformed by the ministry; and that is a matter, I think, that should be attended to, extending down to the children; they come up against Elisha. Opposition arises in that way. The sons of the prophets made a point of those fifty strong men; they were infidel in saying that fifty strong men should be sent out to find Elijah, as if he had not gone up, and the children partake of the spirit of opposition. Children are apt to take on what they hear others say, and therefore the need of watchfulness as to partisanship, and having preferences in the ministry. The continuity of the ministry is to be in the spirit of Elijah, that is the spirit that is to govern the ministry. I suppose Eleazar being set over the Levites would be a suggestion of the Spirit of Christ governing the levitical services. It is the Spirit of Christ such as we get in Philippians; the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, which would save us from any partisan proclivity, and would maintain unity; unity in the ministry, and, flowing out from that, unity among the brethren generally.

E.G. These fifty valiant men would deny ascension, I take it?

J.T. That is the point; they become infidel. It does not appear that they mean to say anything sinister in what is alleged, but they imply, that after all, the thing said about Elijah may not be wholly true. We need to be accurate in what we report. The reports in 1 Corinthians 1, made by the house of Chloe and others, of what was "reported commonly", were accepted by the apostle as reliable. We hear of many things being alleged and marvel how they came to be said; there is no evidence that anyone really said them, yet they are alleged. All that is important, so that in the continuity of the ministry there should be unity.

G.M. Would the continuity of the ministry be seen in the fact that Elijah is said to have gone with Elisha, as though he were in his hands already, and would the Lord's words as to the Spirit, "he shall receive of mine, and shall announce it to you", John 16:14 bear on this?

J.T. Quite so. There is movement with Elisha, which is right and what is to be expected; "Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal". 2 Kings 2:1 The movement seems to be with Elisha; Elijah takes it on; the type meaning that the movement should be taken on, the Lord guiding everything. Another thing that comes out is that Elijah says, "Abide here, I pray thee; for Jehovah has sent me to Bethel". 2 Kings 2:2. And then again it is said, "So they went down to Bethel. And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said to him, Dost thou know that Jehovah will take away thy master from over thy head today? And he said, I also know it: be silent". 2 Kings 2:2 - 5. Then, in verse 4, he calls him by name for the first time. He said, "Elisha, abide here, I pray thee; for Jehovah has sent me to Jericho". 2 Kings 2:4. Elijah calls him by name for the first time, therefore I think the ministers are distinguished, knowing each other by name. In Paul's visit to Jerusalem from Antioch to meet the judaising element in Jerusalem, much is made of names, of the apostle and others. It is important that the

leading brethren should be known in that sense and distinguished and honoured. Some of them are said to be pillars; others are alluded to as if they wished to be somewhat, but anyway they are recognised and we are to know them too.

Ques. Would you say a word as to Elijah casting his mantle over Elisha in the first book, and the development of matters here? The passage in 1 Kings 19:19 reads "And he departed thence, and found Elisha the son of Shaphat, who was ploughing with twelve yokes before him, and he with the twelfth; and Elijah went over to him, and cast his mantle on him".

J.T. It was a question of influence, which is an idea that has a great place in creation and in christianity, too. I believe it refers to the influence of Christ in Elijah casting his mantle upon him. Where we are subject, the influence of Christ is overwhelming and overpowering. Elijah said to him, "Go back again: for what have I done to thee? And he returned back from him, and took the yoke of oxen, and killed them, and boiled their flesh with the implements of the oxen, and gave to the people, and they ate"; 1 Kings 19:20,21, then the Spirit of God says, "he arose, and went after Elijah, and ministered to him" 1 Kings 19:21. He seemed to have some need of adjustment, but he began at once; what marked him, as indeed is recorded later, is pouring water on the hands of Elijah; he would support that ministry. He did not wish Elijah to be removed, although he was indeed to be made the prophet instead of him later, but he had no thought of his being removed so as to make room for him: he sought rather to aid him in what he was ministering. I made an allusion to the elder brethren, the elder ministers, as compared with the younger. There should be no thought of displacement in any on account of his age; not that I am speaking of myself, but of all who might be in that position. They are to be valued according to their ministry, according to what they are able to

do, and the younger men would do well to support them in every way. Their places will be recognised, and the way that Elisha regarded his master, as he calls him, and then, his father, is very beautiful and very instructive in the divine economy.

H.H. Is that why it says here, "As Jehovah liveth, and as thy soul liveth"? 2 Kings 2:2.

J.T. Very good, "I will not leave thee". He valued him; he valued his master.

A.M.P. The words "from Gilgal" would be significant at the beginning of this chapter. Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

J.T. It would be a starting point, not so much the geographical position as the moral position; what is implied morally. It marked Israel as going into Canaan, and if we are to go into heaven it should mark us, and I suppose both Elijah and Elisha would have that in mind, that the ministry should be in accord with heaven; it is what comes out of heaven.

H.J.A. As to continuity, are you thinking of the quality of the ministry? I was thinking of the words "The Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit"; 2 Timothy 4:22: not only His grace but the Person with one's spirit. Does that fit in with your thought?

J.T. It does indeed. "The spirits of the prophets are subject to prophets". 1 Corinthians 14:32. Our minds are to have scope in prophecy. We do not need to take part unless we can gauge the situation and know that it is ripe for any one of us to do so. We can regulate the whole position in that sense. That enters into the order that belongs to the ministry. The prophets speak by two or three, but separately. We are not to be guided by impulse, but by our minds as to what is suitable. This matter of Elisha being recognised by Elijah is very interesting, and especially as bearing on the relations of the brethren with one another. Then Elisha cleaving to Elijah in spite of the latter's challenge: Elijah testing

him on every occasion, and urging him to stay where he was, because he himself must go where the Lord was sending him. No doubt in the antitype that would mean that the Lord is pleased with us as we adhere to Him, cleave to Him, cleave to the Lord with purpose of heart.

The sons of the prophets are not influencing Elisha yet, although, as is usual in such cases, they know everything; that is, they hear things, they communicate one to another, and so forth. But we soon come into contact with the fifty strong men. We have to watch them, for we have to keep clear of all that influence when we are dealing with such precious instructions as we have here, involving the impartation of the Spirit of Christ to the ministers. So Elijah said, in 2 Kings 2:4, "Elisha, abide here, I pray thee; for the Lord has sent me to Jericho", which would mean that the new minister, so to speak, that is Elisha, would, as he traversed all these places later by himself, then have the advantage of seeing how Elijah had served there, so that he would be guided by the way things were done by Elijah. A very important matter as to the way things are done and how you minister according to what may be needed.

Then the sons of the prophets, as we were remarking, know what is going to happen, but Elisha knew too. The brother who is really used of God will know better than any; he says, "I also know it, be silent"! 2 Kings 2:5. It is not for you to talk just now. This is a most precious matter: this is the time of the impartation of the Spirit from Christ to His servants, but it should not be made a matter of table talk and the like, but regarded holily and reverentially. It is typically the greatest matter as governing the dispensation; what Christ is in it, and what the ministers are carrying on in it under Him: so he says, "I also know it, be silent". 2 Kings 2:5. Then the matter becomes more and more holy as events proceed. 2 Kings 2:6 says, "Jehovah has sent me to Jordan". Now here

are the fifty strong men. We hear of them at this time for it is a question of death. Can they face death? for that is what is required; it is a question of what we can do in the swelling of Jordan, not simply on the platform, so to speak. So the fifty strong men come into evidence, they "stood opposite afar off, and they two (Elijah and Elisha) stood by the Jordan. And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, and they two went over on dry ground". 2 Kings 2:7,8 The fifty strong men are not there, although they know what is happening.

Then 2 Kings 2:9 - 12 reads: "And it came to pass, when they had gone over, that Elijah said to Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I am taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so to thee; but if not, it shall not be so. And it came to pass, as they went on, and talked, that, behold, a chariot of fire, and horses of fire; and they parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into the heavens. And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father! the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof! And he saw him no more. Then he took hold of his own garments, and rent them in two pieces".

There is a significance in these words of Elisha's which is to enter into the ministry and those who are in the ministry are intended to understand and to use them; "the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof". 2 Kings 2:12. What I am saying may be considered a little extreme, but I believe that is how the thing stands, that the ministry is to be continued as from a divine source, and it is to retain its character. There may be peculiarities in the ministers, but the general position is clear and the recognition of the source of the ministry, the One in

whom it began; Christ Himself, typified here in Elijah. There is to be a general recognition of that, and it is to go through, and I believe that is the point for us at the present time.

The Lord is helping us greatly, I would say, but unity is what is so needed, and the continuance of the ministry as from the source. The thought of the father is not to be omitted; the Lord spoke of the disciples as children, and it is very precious to have the sense that He takes a place as Father, one who has authority, to whom we look, and so the ministry goes forward. We see it later in the days of king Joash, at the time of Elisha's illness, when he was sick; 2 Kings 13. There was a weak situation, but still the truth was there, and the way to do things was known there, and Elisha is able to say with authority what is to be done. Presently Elisha dies and was buried, and as a man who had died later was cast into the sepulchre of Elisha, and touched the bones of Elisha, "he revived and stood upon his feet". 2 Kings 13:21 That shows how the ministry goes through in power.

E.G. Elijah was on the mount of transfiguration with Moses; these two men speaking with Jesus.

J.T. I should not like to enter now on what may be said of Elijah, for he has a unique place and really a mysterious place, which I believe the Lord would help us to bring out some time. He has a mysterious place, because John the baptist is likened to him; in fact as the Lord intimated as to John, This is Elias, if they received it; Elijah would be there. Then again in the coming day we learn in Malachi 4, that Elijah appears in a ministry for children and for fathers. I should not like to enter on that very much just now, there is hardly time for it, but there is a great deal in it; and what there is in mystery in the ministry itself; the ministry is characterised by mystery.

Rem. Paul said that they were to be accounted as ministers of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God, 1 Corinthians 4.

J.T. That is what I was thinking.

Ques. Would the language, "My father, my father", be in keeping with the spiritual character of the ministry? The apostle says, "communicating spiritual things by spiritual means" 1 Corinthians 2:13 in contrast to the fleshy mind.

J.T. Paul himself asserts the importance of fatherhood. He says to the Corinthians, "For if ye should have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet not many fathers". 1 Corinthians 4:15. I believe that would enter into what you say, the idea of parenthood coming out in the ministers. John also speaks to the saints as a father. So there is this as over against Rome and all its claims. We have the ministry of the Spirit, the real thing, the idea of fathers, and children too, and young men, all in their different qualities amongst us, so that we have a real economy set up; not only a divine Person coming into the economy, but persons who are taken on in ministry, to lead in it, the importance they have, and the importance as to them, that they should maintain the thing as at the beginning. Hence the fathers should know Him that is from the beginning; they would not tolerate novelties to support any ministry, we must be all tested by that which is from the beginning, the ministry.

Ques. Is there a counterpart in Philippians? The apostle's reference to his own departure in chapter 1 and then, in chapter 2, the way he refers to Timothy, saying, "ye know the proof of him, that, as a child a father, he has served with me". Philippians 2:22.

J.T. Very good; I think an allusion to Elijah and Elisha must be there. Paul understood the truth set out in them we do not doubt. There would be commendation of Timothy specially, because of his trustworthiness, and reliability. Paul sent him to Corinth that they might know his ways; that is, Paul's ways as they were in Christ. Timothy would teach the Corinthians about Paul's ways.

W.C. Would you say a little more about mystery entering into the ministry?

J.T. I think we can see that it is so. "The mystery of piety is great. God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in the Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among the Gentiles, has been believed on in the world, has been received up in glory"; 1 Timothy 3:16. I am sure that would be outstanding in the hearts of the ministers. It is a question of mystery in the Persons of the Deity being unfolded in the ministry.

Rem. It is surprising in how many connections it stands in Paul's ministry. He speaks of the mystery of the gospel, among other things, as though everything that is spiritual has some degree of mystery.

J.T. So that those governed by the truth have that character about them. What they are saying cannot be understood by the natural mind. We hold things in mystery. They must not be cast before swine. The Spirit, of course, enables us to understand mysteries, but they are there in the ministry.

W.G. Would you enlarge a little on the double portion of Elijah's spirit in its bearing on us at the present moment?

J.T. I think it is the firstborn's portion as characterising this dispensation, and no other dispensation. It is the fulness of the Spirit, I think. We are told in the end of John 3 that God gives not His Spirit by measure. The Spirit is given in toto, so to speak, to the assembly; it comes in through Christ, but the fulness of the Spirit is in the assembly. So the assembly is said to be "the Christ". A marvellous thing! -- "so also is the Christ". 1 Corinthians 12:12. The assembly is that here, as meeting evil of all kinds; the power is there in the assembly, as it is understood, to meet all, and I believe what you have suggested as to the double portion would be that it is the firstborn's portion. Christ is the Firstborn, and we come in for the result of that. There is no other dispensation like this; there is no other that has lasted so long; you marvel at it! What is the Lord doing at this time? He is not ruling

Israel, or the nations, or the universe; He is just looking after the assembly and all that enters into it, namely the gospel.

A.M. Is there a counterpart of that power in the assembly today, as well as the ministry? The effects of the Spirit seen manifestly in acts of power, as well as the ministry itself?

J.T. I think that raises quite an important side of our subject. How is the assembly regarded when the matter of the collection comes up, for instance, when the matter of general meetings comes up, where the assembly should perform a leading part. The ministry is linked up with the temple of God, and so the collections for the saints are linked up with the assembly, and many other such thoughts, but it is a question whether the assembly is fully owned, and whether the whole thing is not weakened sometimes by the way things are viewed, and the low level of administration. Ordinary matters, such as payment for the tea at Saturday afternoon meetings, when you have children and perhaps outside christians sitting down together, charged to the assembly. That is a misuse of the assembly. It is a great dignified company and is to be so regarded in all the usages that are made of it.

A.J.R. The spirit of this marks the present age, in the attempt to bring things down to a low level, whereas they should be placed on a high level.

J.T. That is what I think, exactly. So we would think twice before we apply administration in the assembly to ordinary matters. The Levites, of course, and the poor are to be thought of, which Paul said he was always forward to do; but outside of that there is a great danger, I think, of misusing the assembly.

Ques. I should like a little more help as to your allusion to the Saturday afternoon meetings. Your thought is that the expenses incurred are not an assembly matter?

J.T. No, I should think not; they should be made a separate thing, for it is a question of a meal, not of fellowship; every person is not in fellowship there.

Rem. It has not been our practice to so regard it. I suppose as to this hall hired specially today, the meetings around will happily send help to pay for the expenses.

J.T. I should think that is right.

Ques. You make a difference between the expenses of a hall like this, and expenses of catering?

J.T. I would make a difference. It is a question of public ministry, as compared with what is personal need. I should not link up the brethren, many of them children, with eating and drinking, as if that were fellowship.

Rem. I think it has been generally regarded as showing what may be called assembly hospitality.

J.T. I do not think there is any such thing; the assembly does not entertain.

Rem. Some indication to persons who may be interested of the fatness of God's house. And we have too, I think, so far regarded it pretty much generally, that expenses of that kind could be met assemblywise; but we are very glad to hear what you are saying.

J.T. I think what I am saying is right, that the assembly does not entertain in that sense at all.

A.M.P. When you come to the thought of calling an assembly meeting, as we speak, that would need to be fully justified by Scripture. You were speaking of using what belongs to the assembly in a way that is not in keeping with it. When an assembly meeting is called, for purposes of discipline and the like, it would need to be fully in accordance with the holy character of the assembly. The apostle speaks of being "gathered together and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ" 1 Corinthians 5:4. One feels the need of making room for the wholly spiritual character of what belongs to the assembly. There may be a misuse.

J.T. Paul speaks of his spirit with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ -- a wholly spiritual matter.

Our chapter, 2 Kings 2:19 - 22, speaks of the men of the city. "And the men of the city said to Elisha, Behold now, the situation of the city is good, as my lord sees; but the water is bad, and the land is barren. And he said, Bring me a new cruse, and put salt in it. And they brought it to him. And he went forth to the source of the waters, and cast the salt in there, and said, Thus saith Jehovah, I have healed these waters: there shall not be from thence any more death or barrenness. And the waters were healed to this day, according to the saying of Elisha, which he spoke". I think we have a principle there of a wholly new setting; that is, another ministry, but in entire accord with the original, with that which was from the beginning. There is variety in it and a new thought too, which we should expect in ministry; that is, fresh thoughts, but always in accord with that which is from the beginning. So the new cruse is mentioned and salt in it. It is well to be reminded of newness in the things of God, lest we become stale; meetings like this may become stale, we need newness and freshness and a preservative element always, namely, salt. "Have salt in yourselves". Mark 9:50. If we do not have salt we shall drift into personal preferences and disunion, as we see at Corinth. But now there is a new principle brought in, a cruse and salt in it; the idea of a vessel containing what is preservative.

They brought the cruse to Elisha, and he went forth to the source of the waters they were using then, and "cast the salt in there, and said, Thus saith Jehovah, I have healed these waters; there shall not be from thence any more death or barrenness. And the waters were healed to this day, according to the saying of Elisha". 2 Kings 2:21,22. I only refer to it as a principle that can be applied at any time where there is, perhaps, a drift downward, as is often the case. The preservative element should be there, as

it is said, "Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another". Mark 9:50.

A.M. Is the salt also to be applied to the hearer as well as the minister? I was thinking of the end of Luke 14:35, where the Lord refers to salt and then says, "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear".

J.T. It would be as important for them as for the ministers, for we are to hear aright.

E.G. It is introduced in Colossians 4:6: "Let your word be alway with grace, seasoned with salt".

J.T. Yes, seasoned: rightly mixed.

E.G. The Lord told His disciples that a "scribe discipled to the kingdom of the heavens is like a man that is a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old", Matthew 13:52.

J.T. Quite so; he brings things out of his treasure. That can be applied to any minister at any time. What does he bring out of his treasure? That would not be his bookcase, of course, but what he has in his soul.

Ques. Did Saul begin with what is new when he immediately preached Jesus as Son of God?

J.T. Just so.

THE HEAVENLY SIDE OF THE GOSPEL

1 Timothy 1:11; Ephesians 6:18 - 20; Ephesians 1:13,14; Numbers 13:26,27

J.T. It is thought that the Lord would open up a little to us the heavenly side of the gospel, what is called in our first scripture "the glad tidings of the glory of the blessed God". 1 Timothy 1:11. The passage in the first chapter of Ephesians speaks of the gospel of our salvation; that, as it is said, by which we are saved "having heard the word of the truth, the glad tidings of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the earnest of our inheritance to the redemption of the acquired possession to the praise of his glory". Ephesians 1:13,14. That is what is generally in mind in the gospel. The passage in Timothy, and that in Ephesians 6, take us further on to the matter of the glory; and in the latter we have "the mystery of the glad tidings". Ephesians 6:19. Then it is thought that the passage in Numbers would help us as a type as referring to the land, what we may call the gospel of the land. It is alluded to in Hebrews 4 where it is said, that we have had the gospel presented to us "even as they also"; Hebrews 4:2. The gospel they had presented was the report of the spies. What a report they brought down to Moses from their search of the land as compared with the exit out of Egypt; that report was more in keeping with Ephesians 1.

E.S.B. You said that there are many expressions used in regard to the gospel. Sometimes on the notice board in regard to the preaching of the gospel the expression is used, "the gospel of God", sometimes it is "the gospel of the grace of God", do you differentiate between the two, the one being a further thought than the other?

J.T. Well, the gospel of God is a general thought

covering all references to it, especially in Romans, but Romans does not take us to the idea of the glory, or of the land, and perhaps that is where we all need help. The ordinary gospel is preached to save us while in this world, but then there is also the idea of taking us out of this world, delivering us out of it, and that means more than the ordinary term of the gospel, the gospel of our salvation, it means what is in heaven.

H.G.H. Does the expression "sound teaching" in 1 Timothy 1:10 involve not only the gospel of salvation but the gospel of the glory?

J.T.T. It is written to a brother engaged in the work; indeed, Paul says that he preached the gospel of the Son of God with him and Silvanus at Corinth, so that he was conversant with Paul's doctrine, what is especially his, the gospel that is committed to him would include heavenly things. The Lord had said in relation to the subject of eternal life in John 3, "And no one has gone up into heaven, save he who came down out of heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven". John 3:13. So that the Lord is qualified to tell us about what is in heaven, and that we are taken up through the gospel of the glory to be fitted by it for heaven.

Ques. Would you look for the heavenly side to be presented in the meeting rooms in the main?

J.T. I was just wondering about that. I have been thinking for a considerable time of the preachings we have throughout the world on Lord's day afternoon or evening, and more recently, the habit we have of praying for it in our houses, and I believe the heavenly side of the gospel is what is more fitting and needful in those preachings. Here and there we get a person going out into the street to preach to people as they pass, and I suppose we should then think of what is more initial and elementary, but inside the room, after our seasons together on the first day of the week, when we are engaged with heavenly things, or ought to be, the

service of God leading us into heavenly things, and they should not be foreign to us; then the heavenly side of the gospel should be presented. If we pray for the gospel in our houses we should think of the best side of it available to the households of the brethren and their children too, of course, but also the older ones. It is a time of privilege, the heavenly side really, because it is the day on which the Father raised the Son. It is said He raised Him up by His glory. It is a remarkable expression and we should not feel strange if the gospel of the glory was the subject after our prayer meeting for the gospel preaching.

Ques. What you have expressed is in my own mind very much. What would you put on the notice board?

J.T. Well, I think the safest thing is "the word of God". Paul tells Timothy to preach the word; 2 Timothy 4:2. It is a phrase we get in Hebrews 4 where we have this same point touched on; that is, the gospel of the spies, what they brought down to Moses. The charge was that they hardened their hearts. The appeal in Hebrews 3:8 is, "Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness". So in chapter 4, the writer of the Hebrews says, "For indeed we have had the glad tidings presented to us, even as they also; but the word of the report did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard". Hebrews 4:2. The charge made was of not hearkening to the word, and we are told in Hebrews 4:12, what the word is; "For the word of God is living and operative, and sharper than any two edged sword". After that, in order to encourage any who would be encouraged through the preaching, he presents Christ as the High Priest for us, ready to assist us against hardening our hearts, assist us into the realm of grace and maintain us in it. So that I was thinking the safest thing is to announce publicly that the word of God is to be preached, because it puts everyone under responsibility, not that I would have

any difficulty in putting on the board that the gospel of God is to be preached.

Ques. Is it that the word of God is so comprehensive that it would meet whatever state was there to be met?

J.T. The scripture says, "penetrating even to the division of soul and spirit, both of joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart, and there is not a creature unapparent before him; but all things are naked and laid bare to his eyes, with whom we have to do". Hebrews 4:12,13.

Rem. It says in Luke 5:1 that "the crowd pressed on him to hear the word of God".

Ques. If you were able to present the gospel of the glory, or the gospel of the land, would you expect souls to be converted under that gospel?

J.T. Well, we hope, and we need to, that there are more who attend our meetings, than persons who actually need conversion in the ordinary sense. Those who do come are mostly those who need the gospel of the glory and, therefore, I believe that it is the point to get them to see that there is another world.

E.C.M. Does the gospel of the glory involve the fact that there is a Man in the glory?

J.T. Yes, what is presented in Deuteronomy, for instance. The passage we read from was Numbers, but there is a passage in Deuteronomy which indicates the things that are in the land, not only the persons in the glory, the persons in heaven, but heavenly things. It says in Deuteronomy 8:7 - 10 "For Jehovah thy God bringeth thee into a good land, a land of water-brooks, of springs, and of deep waters, that gush forth in the valleys and hills; a land of wheat, and barley, and vines, and fig-trees, and pomegranates; a land of olive-trees and honey; a land wherein thou shalt eat bread without scarceness, where thou shalt lack nothing; a land whose stones are iron, and out of whose

mountains thou wilt dig copper. And thou shalt eat and be filled, and shalt bless Jehovah thy God for the good land which he hath given thee". I was thinking of the Lord's day, we have had the service of God in the morning, we have had before us the day on which the Father raised Him by His glory; then we have had the reading of the Scriptures in holy fellowship; and then we have had our conversation in our houses, which all ought to be profitable. Having been in all that we should be ready for something about the good land, what God in His love has not only chosen us for, but searched out for us Himself. He viewed it as if one saw it at a distance and the whole of it is for His people, and then, when you come to examine it, it is so full of riches. Why should not the saints know, why should they not hear these things, and see that it is worth while being a christian?

Rem. It says of the spies in Numbers that they brought back word to them and showed them the fruit of the land.

J.T. They brought it down two together on a pole so that it could be well seen. What fruit it was!

J.C.T. You would say the gospel of the glory involves the fulness of God's thoughts for men.

J.T. Yes I would. "Eye has not seen, and ear not heard, and which have not come into man's heart, which God has prepared for them that love him, but God has revealed to us by his Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God". 1 Corinthians 2:9,10. These are the things that the saints need. So many young people are turning aside and we want the young people to have something to hold them, a gospel that is worth while receiving.

H.G.H. Do you think it is profitable to present the gospel of salvation to young people, before the gospel of the glory is presented?

J.T. Yes, quite so. Young people brought up in christian households need instruction. They need all

that will control their minds and their consciences, for their consciences have to be met, and for that we have to have redemption; but then the heart also has to be satisfied. The trees of the Lord are said to be satisfied, and I believe the cup in the Lord's supper is for satisfaction. Our young people are not satisfied or else so many would not turn aside.

A.W.P. So John says, "Love not the world, nor the things in the world", 1 John 2:15. We not only have another world in view, but we know the things that belong to it.

J.T. Yes, just so. They are depicted in Deuteronomy. Among other things too the gospel involves extrication, a gospel which meets man in his need.

Rem. In Galatians the apostle speaks of deliverance "from this present evil world".

J.T. Yes, and the gospel of the glory is intended for that. Then there is the mystery of the gospel, which is something that is hardly known at all, because it refers to the assembly. That is what the saints are brought into in the way of persons. There are things, but there are persons too; society is involved in the assembly; what companionship we are brought into!

W.H.C. Is there some point in the way Paul speaks in Romans? "Beloved of God, called saints"; Romans 1:7. Is there any particular point in that?

J.T. "Called saints"; that is, saints by calling. That is to bring out their dignity and leads up to the mystery of which we have been speaking. "Consider your calling, brethren", 1 Corinthians 1:26. So we are told in Ephesians 4, to walk worthy of the calling, "using diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, as ye have been also called in one hope of your calling", Ephesians 4:3,4. "One hope of your calling", and what a calling! This refers to the greatness of the things we are brought into, the destiny that is before us.

S.H. Rahab presents to us a poor sinner and how far one can progress by the report one hears. She speaks of "Jehovah your God, he is God in the heavens above, and on the earth beneath", Joshua 2:11.

J.T. It is wonderful that she said that. It would indicate what a type she is, and not only a type, but the substance was there as well, and you can understand how much she fits in with the book of Joshua. She says she is on Joshua's side. Joshua introduces us into the land.

Ques. The prodigal realised that he had sinned against heaven. Is that the principle of the gospel of the glory working?

J.T. Quite so. That part of the chapter, I believe, is just what should be read now. What is to be brought forth is the best robe, that is, something from heaven.

F.W.K. Does the gospel of the glory show complete deliverance from the world and moving in the light of heaven? They were "in the temple praising and blessing God", Luke 24:53.

Ques. Is there a danger of our thinking of unconverted souls and not being in the good of the things ourselves?

J.T. Just so. There is the everlasting gospel, but we are not engaged with that, we are engaged with the heavenly gospel, the gospel of the glory which is greater than the everlasting gospel. If we follow Paul's ministry we shall see that he is thinking of the greatness of the assembly. He tells us of "the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but has now been made manifest to his saints", Colossians 1:26. The thought is that the time has come when there are persons here who are interested in this great matter. I have been impressed with a remark that Mr. Stoney made. He said that if he met a man interested in the right sense he would like to follow him into heaven. The things are there to be seen. The Lord said to the thief on the cross, "Today shalt

thou be with me in paradise", Luke 23:43; that is not properly heaven. Paul saw wonderful things there, but heaven is a thought beyond paradise. It is a question of what is in heaven, as the Lord says, "And no one has gone up into heaven, save he who came down out of heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven", John 3:13, and He says that in view of the gospel of eternal life. There must be some link with heaven, because of the Son of man being there, and He has come down here, and then we have what He told people when He was here: what unfoldings, for instance, we have in John 14, John 15, John 16 and John 17; what unfoldings for men!

J.C.T. So the word to the exercised soul is "Come and see". John 1:39

J.T. That is John's word, it is a characteristic word of John's gospel, but then what is to be seen? the Spirit being here and Christ being in heaven, and the saints being formed accordingly, what they are, what God is engaging them with.

H.G.H. Do you think that the gospel of the glory is involved in James 5:20, when he refers to bringing back the sinner from the error of his way?

J.T. Just so. "Shall save a soul from death". James 5:20. There are many like that, they turn aside and you cannot save them after they have turned aside with the thing that they were converted with, you must bring in something else.

A.A.G. Is it the gospel of the glory that the enemy is so set against? I was thinking of 2 Corinthians 4. "But if also our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in those that are lost; in whom the god of this world has blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving, so that the radiancy of the glad tidings of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine forth for them". Paul then goes on to speak of "God who spoke that out of darkness light should shine who has shone in our hearts for the shining forth of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ". 2 Corinthians 4:6.

J.T. Therefore the devil is especially set against it, darkening souls. He is set for the darkening of man, the passage points to that, those who are lost through Satan's blinding efforts.

F.G.H. In regard to special occasions for the preaching of the gospel, would you think the gospel of the glory should be presented on these occasions as well?

J.T. I should like to know that the gospel of the glory was presented in some way or another; it is very rarely that it is presented.

F.G.H. I was thinking perhaps on those occasions when complete strangers come in and there is more in mind the meeting of the need; would not the gospel of the glory go beyond that?

J.T. It would. The intent is to allure people out of the world, and to show what God has for man in the gospel, because it includes the mystery. What themes there are for preaching and for teaching so as to allure souls. I believe that Luke 15 is the opening up of it, the music and the dancing; that is another thing to appeal to young people especially, where all the springs are known to be in the assembly, in God's house; that must be alluring. The way God, as shown in the father, came out to his elder son, to his first son, and begged him to go in. He would not go in, even though the thing was there to entice him to go in, and hence the terribleness of the judgments are spoken of in the next chapter, how the future is laid bare as the rich man is exposed in hades. The passage states, that the rich man "in hades lifting up his eyes, being in torments". Luke 16:23 That is a striking matter as following on chapter 15, where the wonderful blessedness of the gospel, the gospel of the glory, is in mind. It says, "Bring out the best robe, and clothe him in it". Luke 15:22. Everything was of the best and everything was for him. The father was doing everything possible for him, for his joy, and everything is of the best.

W.S. So the principle is represented in Saul of Tarsus

on the way to Damascus. The Lord Himself appeared to him in glory. There is a presentation of the Lord there and the mystery is indicated in what the Lord said.

J.T. I would say that, the account Paul gives of what happened shows the brightness that enveloped him.

J.C.T. The Lord's commission to Paul links the forgiveness of sins with the inheritance among the sanctified.

J.T. Yes, just so.

W.J.D. Does it depend on the saints as well as on the preacher?

J.T. Well that is a good point to bring up. If we have been praying in our houses for the gospel work, let us carry that into the preaching, into the room where the preaching is, and manifest it in prayerful interest while the gospel is going on. Perhaps that is what is needed, because everything is not done when we leave our houses.

W.J.D. I was thinking of the passage in Numbers 13 where it is said, "that place was called the valley of Eshcol, because of the grapes which the children of Israel had cut down there". I wondered whether it depended upon the saints together entering into the blessedness of the place and what was there, so that the testimony might come out of it.

J.T. You can see how the two men carried the bunch, the one going before and the other coming after, how they were affected by their load, which seemingly was of the very best, and it was a testimony to the land, two of them carrying it. It is a question of what we carry in our hearts in the preaching or in sitting at the preaching, because I think what has just been remarked is a crucial matter. Generally, when the brethren come to the meeting, they leave the matter after having prayed; they expect the preacher to do what is done, whereas it is their responsibility, so that in Philippians the apostle speaks of "your fellowship with the gospel from

the first day until now", Philippians 1:5. It is a question of the saints.

F.W.K. In our chapter in Timothy, Paul seems to enter feelingly into it. He says, "according to the glad tidings of the glory of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted". 1 Timothy 1:11.

J.T. I think that is the point before us now, the bringing of the brethren into this matter: it is a great matter. What there is presented to us in testimony in the gospel, what we have received, as Paul said, "which also ye received", 1 Corinthians 15:1. Well now, if we have received it, what is it, are we in the good of it? How much jubilation is there seen in going to the gospel meeting? Is the first day of the week and all its glory entering into our feelings, as we are entering into the gospel meeting? Is what we have had already on the first day of the week carried into the gospel meeting?

H.G.H. Do you think the lack of that of which we have been speaking would account for the apparently little results in the gospel?

J.T. Yes, I would think that.

C.L. As hearing the notices in the morning we are really committed to it.

J.T. Yes, I would say so. "Bring out the best robe"; Luke 15:22 is the word to us. The servants of the father in the parable show us what was required. They should go in and bring forth the best robe, seek the fatted calf, and do what was necessary in order to make it suitable for food; they would all be in it. There were apparently none outside the spirit of the thing except the elder brother, who deliberately refused the gospel; the others were all in it.

E.K. The Thessalonians were not only in the good of the gospel, but as the apostle says it was sounded forth from them.

J.T. Yes, "sounded out". I think the setting of Luke 15 would help us on this account as to what is

there in the way of jubilation and interest. What corresponds to the father's own earnest desire toward the elder son should be there too. The father let it be seen that it was worth his while, and the prodigal let it be seen that it was worth his while to come in. The father said, "It was right to make merry"… Luke 15:32. That was the spirit that governed the whole position.

Ques. Would the servants represent those who were in sympathy with the father?

J.T. I would think so. I think the spirit seen there ought to be seen in our gospel meetings and, of course, with ourselves, the whole question as to what the first day of the week means to us, what it implies. The Father had been without the Son, speaking reverently. He was without the Son for three days and three nights, as the Son lay in death -- the Son of the Father. "The Father loves the Son", John 3:35, we are told, and He was deprived of that Son for three days and three nights. He was in the heart of the earth; and what feelings were in the Father's heart as He raised Him by His glory, not simply by His power, but by His glory: therefore, the first day of the week is a day of glory. The devil is trying to rob us of it by offering larger wages on the first day of the week for our work; the devil would do anything in his power to rob the saints of the day of glory, the first day of the week.

Rem. Actually it was the wealth that was in the father's house that made the prodigal turn round.

J.T. Well, that is just what it says; "abundance of bread", Luke 15:17 But there is far more in the father's house than he could name at that time.

E.C.M. So in Luke 14 it says "Come, for already all things are ready". "All things" would be involved in what you speak of as the gospel of the glory.

J.T. Just so. There is a special reason for the jubilation, for the feelings, for the affections that you can see, and then in chapter 15 it seems that the Spirit of God

keeps it all for that chapter. It is a remarkable gospel chapter, and it has in view that the saints may be full of it.

J.C.T. Would the operations of all three divine Persons be seen in that chapter?

J.T. Quite so, showing what was going on in heaven when the Father came out, you might say, to raise the Son by His glory.

F.W.K. Does the gospel of the glory involve that it is for the pleasure of God? It is an inheritance for God. Deuteronomy goes on to that do you think?

J.T. We have the inheritance in Ephesians, "the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints", Ephesians 1:18.

A.B. Are we too content sometimes to preach to the conscience and leave the heart out of it?

J.T. Luke 15 is to bring the heart into it, and it is the thought of something special with which to appeal to the heart. Of course this is a parable, but the parable involves what God is, God's affections.

J.C.T. Would you say a word as to the fatted calf in that setting?

J.T. It is one of the best things that can be suggested as to food. "And let us eat and make merry: for this my son was dead and has come to life, was lost and has been found". Luke 15:23,24. That is, he is the object of the father's affections, everything is made to bend in that direction, and I believe the first day of the week is to lead us to thoughtfulness as to it, because it is a question of the day of the glory of the Father, that is, the Father of glory.

T.L.F. In that way the day itself had commenced with glory and finished with glory.

J.T. I think that is the way to put it. The gospel ought to be the gospel of the glory. It is meet that the poor sinner, and the poor saint too, who perhaps is hardly able to keep his head above water spiritually, should commence with glory on the first day of the week.

Ques. Would you distinguish between the preaching of the gospel and the teaching of the gospel in that connection?

J.T. The preaching has a circle of affections in it. The apostle says, "that by me the preaching might be fully known", 2 Timothy 4:17. There is something in the preaching which appeals to the heart, whereas the teaching appeals to the mind of man, being instruction.

F.G. Would you bring in the need for repentance into the preaching?

J.T. Yes, quite so; a repenting sinner makes heaven joyous. That is another thing that comes out in Luke 15; every sinner who repents causes joy in heaven.

E.S.B. What is the difference between "joy in heaven", Luke 15:7 and "joy before the angels of God"? Luke 15:10.

J.T. There is a difference. The angels are brought in there as ministers of ours, they are thoroughly with God. The angels desire to look into certain things but the things they look into belong to us, they are our property; God has made them our property.

A.A.G. Does it suggest joy in the sphere in which the Spirit is operating?

J.T. It is a very great victory. The worst sinner when he repents affords joy in heaven. Some of us were speaking a little while ago as to Cornelius who built up a memorial in heaven, though he had not the Holy Spirit as yet, but it indicates what we are speaking of; how great christianity is, and how that the minutest result of it is noticed in heaven. A man gives alms, he puts his hand in his pocket and gives something to a needy person, and he builds up a memorial in heaven. It is one of the most remarkable things we can get.

W.J.D. Does the thought in connection with the Queen of Sheba coincide with what you have in mind, the testimony which reached her, and which she heard, and then she came, and saw, and what she saw was infinitely greater than what she heard. It was so much

greater that she says, "Happy are thy men! happy are these thy servants", 1 Kings 10:8.

J.T. That too bears on what we were saying with regard to Luke 15. It is a very good suggestion as to it in the Old Testament, but the happiness of it is the thing to be noticed. In Luke 15 the father says -- and we must remember that the father represents God, our Father -- he says, "It was right to make merry and rejoice", Luke 15:32 -- God Himself was in it.

Let us think of the everyday experience of a christian, and when he comes to the first day of the week, what his experience is. How much he is concerned to keep away everything that would interfere with the glory of the day. It is not simply one of the days of the Son of man, it is one of the days affected from heaven; it is really what is in heaven reflected down here, and it needs vigilance to keep away everything that would mar the day. The first day of the week, as we see it in John 20 and Psalm 22 is like it, in the reference to the hind of the morning; the feminine thought, what the Lord Himself has on the first day, what He has in those who are of His Spirit. Mary Magdalene represented what was there. How was she brought into it? she was brought into it through teaching.

H.G.H. Do you think that it is necessary to be sealed by the Holy Spirit, before you can enter into the blessedness of the gospel of the glory?

J.T. I think so. The first passage we read is that we have the Spirit; "in whom ye also have trusted, having heard the word of the truth, the glad tidings of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the earnest of our inheritance to the redemption of the acquired possession to the praise of his glory", Ephesians 1:13,14. Now this would indicate what the believer receives as believing in the gospel, as the Lord says, "repent and believe in the glad tidings", Mark 1:15. That is what

the Lord said in Mark; the word in there means that I look into it and accept all its terms.

E.S.B. I suppose there would be a difference in the early preachings by the apostle Paul and his later services. Three days after meeting the Lord on the way to Damascus, we are told that "he preached Jesus that he is the Son of God", Acts 9:20, and then in the further account we have in 2 Corinthians he had a much fuller impression there of what was involved. He had been into the land and tasted the grapes of Eschol, he could speak much more fully.

J.T. Just so. It is what we were saying about the first day of the week and of the interest in it, and about Luke 15. What riches are implied in that chapter. The gospel is to promote what belongs to the first day of the week: it is the day of glory: that is the idea. The hind of the morning is in the heading of Psalm 22 in which the Lord is spoken of as singing in the midst of the assembly; that is how He is affected by what is involved in Psalm 22. We have the feminine thought in Mary, even as the hind in the heading of the Psalm is feminine; that is to say, the feminine result of the gospel is involved; what the Lord has, the joy that was set before Him; and I am sure that must enter into the gospel to some extent on the first day of the week; the joy which He has in the measure in which He has the assembly, because that is where His joy lies.

F.W.K. Do you think we need to give ourselves more to this with greater definiteness in view of the Lord's day. In John 20 the disciples were together the doors being shut.

J.T. It was up to them to shut the door; it is a credit to them surely as if they would be secluded, as if they would be in repose for the moment, so that the Lord could come in. Mary came in first, she came in and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord and that He had spoken these things to her. It was a glory scene. The

Lord had already said that He was ascending. There was jubilation in the triumph that He was ascending. He said, "go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God". John 20:17. He comes in in that state of things. It is a question of what it is that enriches the moment, and I believe John 20 is to bring out the richness of the Lord coming into the assembly.

S.H. If we understood the marital relation to Christ more, the saints would be able to say, "This is my beloved, yea, this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem", Song of Songs 5:16. Do you think that bears on what you were saying?

J.T. Yes, indeed. It is the day of His espousals, the day of the gladness of His heart.

E.C.M. Would the spirit of this be seen in Paul and Silas in the jail at Philippi "in praying, were praising God with singing, and the prisoners listened to them", Acts 16:25. The conversion of the jailor who "rejoiced with all his house", Acts 16:34 resulted.

J.T. I believe the singing had part in that, it was brought into the jail. It is a question of what is brought into the meeting where the gospel is proceeding. What was brought in here? Well, it was joy, the joy of Paul and Silas; they were praising in the jail.

E.C.M. A great point being that the prisoners heard them!

J.T. Just so. That is what enters in the first day of the week, and the prayers for the gospel in the house, and then what is brought in in the preaching, the place of the preaching; what is there as the preaching is proceeding, because it is not simply what the preacher has to say; he generally has something he would like to speak of. I find, if I go quietly to think of what I would say, if the brethren are praying, I am conscious of it, I always get on better with the Lord, but is that carried forward? When we go out into the street, and go into the meeting

room, is that carried forward into the preaching, supporting the preacher? It is a jubilant state of things and there is joy in heaven, and the idea is that that should be expressed in the saints in the preaching.

Ques. Is it a matter of what is in the hearts of the saints in coming together on that occasion?

J.T. Yes, and what is in their faces. What do their faces bespeak, are they joyous or downcast, are some of them trying to look at the clock to see how long this preaching is going to last. All these things are very practical because we are in the time of heaven's interests; heaven is going on with these things. Since the Spirit of God came down here after Christ went up, after He was raised up into glory, until now, heaven is joyous, and the Spirit of God is here so that the joy should be reflected in the brethren. That is the idea of the gospel of the glory as involving the assembly; it includes the mystery, and the mystery is what is mysterious. Not everybody could indicate what is meant by it, the saints are mysterious in joy, because it is a question of what belongs to the first day of the week manifested in the assembly.

Ques. Do you think we have often omitted the great thought of the Holy Spirit being available to souls?

J.T. Look at what that means "and ye will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit", Acts 2:38. That is more than repentance. They have received forgiveness of sins, "and ye will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". Acts 2:38. So in Acts 13 there was great joy, and even in Philip's preaching in Samaria there was great joy in that city.

Ques. How would you bring in the thought of "flowing with milk and honey"?

J.T. It is typical of the richness of what God would bring us into by the gospel. Psalm 16:11 says, "thy countenance is fulness of joy; at thy right hand are pleasures for evermore". And then Ephesians 1:18 speaks of

"the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints". That is another thing to get into the mind of the saints. The mystery means that the gospel is implied. Paul's gospel is implied in the assembly; it is called the mystery of the gospel. How many of us understand that? Where do you bring in the mystery? You seek to make it as plain as you can and rightly, but do not forget it is something mysterious, and that it is the assembly.

E.C.M. That is peculiar to Paul. Would you distinguish between the gospel that the twelve preached and that preached by Paul?

J.T. They did not preach the mystery at all.

J.C.T. Paul says, "the mystery of the glad tidings, for which I am an ambassador", Ephesians 6:19,20. He was a representative of his country.

Ques. Referring to the mystery, is your thought that the evangelist would have the truth of the assembly in his mind in presenting the gospel?

J.T. He should; the mystery of the gospel. How many preachings have you heard that disclose to you the mystery of the gospel? I hardly ever hear one. Do you feel encouraged on that line?

Rem. I do very much.

W.J.D. Would you say a practical word as to what we should understand by that.

J.T. You must bring the saints in for that. Jehovah took Moses up to Mount Pisgah to see the land, referring to the place where the saints are to be. It is a question of the saints, it is heaven with the saints in it; that is what is in the mind of God, heaven with the saints in it, and, therefore, we are to be there. The Lord says expressly, "I go to prepare you a place", John 14:2. There should be a suitable place for them; "and if I go and shall prepare you a place, I am coming again, and shall receive you to myself; that where I am, ye also may be". John 14:3.

Ques. Are you confining this thought to the first

day of the week, or is it, that in the joy of the first day of the week you would be able throughout the week to present the gospel of the glory?

J.T. I would aim at that, especially when you think of what is called the city reading, or a meeting where the saints come together on a special day of the week, the whole assembly come together in one place for prophetic ministry. The prophetic ministry proceeds, and a man comes in, "he is convicted of all, he is judged of all; the secrets of his heart are manifested; and thus, falling upon his face, he will do homage to God, reporting that God is indeed amongst you", 1 Corinthians 14:24,25. I would like to see the thought of the first day of the week carried through with the meetings, the prayer meeting, of course, but especially the meeting in which the prophetic ministry is proceeding; there is the power of conviction through the word of God.

Ques. You mentioned the city reading, had you that in mind, or just the prophetic meeting?

J.T. What God has in a city: it is what God has in the place; "with all that in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ", 1 Corinthians 1:2. What God has in every place where assemblies are, that is His best, as it were, in testimony; what you might call the ark of God. The ark was in the hands of the Philistines. It should not have been and David took it out. It was then available to God.

Rem. So you would look for greater power if all the saints in a place are together -- the whole assembly.

J.T. I would. I have proved it many times, on the first day of the week and other days of the week. I have proved it often, and I believe it is in such a meeting that God would say that He had His best there, and it is for the brethren to keep that in mind, and to see that they are there, and when they are in the room they have the matter in mind, the mystery means that God is operating in us, that we are part of His system, and the

mystery enters into that, and so each has to be there in the light of the system and having his part in it.

F.W.K. Is the system seen on the day of Pentecost? Peter stood up in the midst of the eleven, and there was power there.

J.T. That is just the point.

"TOGETHER"

Acts 2:1,44; Matthew 18:20; 1 Corinthians 11:17 - 32

J.T. It will be observed that the first verse read tells us that the one hundred and twenty were "all together in one place", and verse 44, says "all that believed were together". It is thought that these two verses should engage us, firstly to bring out the importance of being together in one place, being really together in it; and then that what is in any locality should be marked as "together", even though we may be separate from one another as in ordinary affairs. Then the passage in Matthew 18 calls attention to the Name to which we are gathered; then further in 1 Corinthians 11, our being assembled in view of the Lord's supper.

J.Ttr. Is this thought of together connected with what is said in John 11:52?

J.T. The word is, that the children of God might be gathered together. The idea of one place is not stressed there; the idea is general, as characteristic of John, clearly involving what the word together implies, for there are various means of being in touch with one another, besides being actually together.

H.E.S. Is what is in mind, our coming together in view of the assembly?

J.T. Yes, and that will come in later, I trust.

Rem. The assembly is marked by the incoming of the Holy Spirit.

J.T. Yes, but it was there before, including the work of the Lord Jesus as here in the flesh. The quotation from John 11 has in mind that they should be together, that the Lord should die to gather together in one the children of God scattered abroad. I think that is a distinction that we might keep before us, the work of Christ personally in the days of His flesh, involving the

forty days during which He sojourned here on earth after He rose.

Ques. Would you say it was in those forty days that the product of the Lord's ministry was to be seen?

J.T. Yes, I would say that, only the added fact of the Comforter, the Holy Spirit having come would serve to give fulness and lustre to all that the Lord inaugurated. It is thought that the Lord did not really gather the assembly, the real work was done after the Spirit came. The Lord did gather them, of course, but they were not indwelt. The power of their relations with each other would be greater after the Spirit came; there is power in the Spirit. The Lord said amongst His own before He ascended, "he shall do greater than these", John 14:12. The Spirit would be the power of the greater works.

H.P.W. The Lord inaugurated the idea of assembling by assembling with them, and in chapter 2:1, the Spirit of God joins Himself to that and carries it forward.

J.T. He would, but He would do more than carry it forward. The indwelling Spirit is very distinct from the presence of the Lord amongst His own here. It exceeds anything that ever had been known in the sense of gathering, because there was the need of a power to make gathering effective in them; this would alone be brought about by the Spirit. John 7:39 says, "the Spirit was not yet"; a remarkable fact, but it was because Jesus was not yet glorified.

J.Ttr. Has the in-breathing in John 20 anything to do with this?

J.T. Only as a pattern. It only happened once. It was on the principle of pattern, just as in relation to the tabernacle Moses received a pattern. The Lord breathing into them was pattern, not a result like what the scripture in Acts 2 records. On the surface it might seem the Lord gave them the Spirit then, but the Holy Spirit was not yet because Jesus was not glorified in

John 20. His ascension was mentioned there, but that too would be pattern. What He said to Mary Magdalene, "I have not yet ascended", John 20:17, is negative, but it suggests the idea of ascension so that the pattern should be complete.

Ques. Would the breathing in John 20 draw attention to the Lord's glory as the last Adam, whereas the indwelling of the Spirit would give the saints a status as body of Christ?

J.T. Quite so, but there is more than status; the presence of the Spirit is unique. There was nothing like it before, nor would there be after. The Lord says, He "shall be in you". John 14:17.

H.P.W. The assembling with the Lord is one thing, but their assembling in the power of the Holy Spirit is an advance on that, in that the Spirit dwells in them.

J.T. Quite so, the effect of the presence of the Spirit of God uniting us into one body.

Rem. There is power in the sense of divine relationships established by the incoming of the Holy Spirit.

J.T. They were not realised yet, because the truth was not developed. It is doubtful if the twelve had full understanding of the relationships recorded later; that is in John's gospel. There is a suggestion in the forty days that the needed time should be provided in all assembly matters. There is the need for learning steadily, and in haste too, but there is the need of taking time and weighing things over. The mystery did not come out until Paul was taken up by the Lord, so the relationships involved in the mystery were not understood. The forty days were the first section, and then the ascension of Christ. We have to understand why it is said He went out to Bethany as recorded in Luke 24, and the mount of Olives; and then ten days elapsed in which certain things were done by the apostles. Many things that belong to christianity were left unsaid until certain things happened, particularly the election of Paul. He is selected as an elect vessel; there is the idea of refinement

in the vessel; so you have completeness then. You have the mystery, and the completion of the word of God, and the ministry of reconciliation, new creation and the mystery of the gospel. The whole thing is taken on afresh, and yet not afresh, for the twelve were there, but there is time allowed to take in the true bearing of the dispensation. Hence the importance of waiting.

Eu.R. "If therefore the whole assembly come together in one place", 1 Corinthians 14:23.

J.T. That is another thing that could be added, but too many scriptures are not always conducive to brevity and lucidity. We need brevity in these meetings. Many other things could be added, such as our being caught up together in the air; we are quickened together, and set down together in the heavenlies, according to Ephesians; and there are many other such matters, but what is in mind is to get the basic thought of being together in the testimony here below.

Rem. You emphasised being together in one place in this first passage.

J.T. That is involved in the word, and all that preceded was to show there was great preparation. The Lord prepared from the outset of His ministry for this. The thought of His going up came in early, in Luke 9, so that it looked as if the Lord acted on the principle of shortening the time needed for things that were to be done in view of the speedy action of the devil to get rid of Him, and yet everything was done according to divine accuracy and He went up at the right time. Luke indicates that the Lord had in mind something that should happen in heaven in view of making effective all that was in His mind; namely, administration; that He should be in the place of administration. The Lord seemed to have that in mind, that things should happen speedily, so there is no mention of the ascension in Luke as there is in John. There is no period of forty days in Luke's gospel. The Lord had in mind to make things ready for the work,

that the divine plan of operation might take form, so that the gospel should have free course.

Rem. In Acts 2, is your thought that this gathering flowed from the Lord taking His seat on the right hand of the Majesty on high? In order that the administration inaugurated in Him, should have an answer in the saints down here, the Lord ascended and took His seat on high. The administration was established in heaven, and the gathering down here was the counterpart of that.

J.T. Quite so, everything was ready, because a certain state in the brethren was needed so that there should be suitable material for the inauguration of the dispensation. Some had got astray and all that had to be adjusted.

J.Ttr. Did the Lord prepare this?

J.T. I think He did. There was preparation, and from the beginning of His ministry He had this in mind. We know how long He waited. He began to be about thirty years of age. And then there was the temptation. He was led in the wilderness forty days, not led into it, but led in it, so as to set out the idea of the wilderness for us. Then coming in at Nazareth where He was brought up, it was announced that the Spirit of the Lord was upon Him. All that had to take place accurately according to divine arrangement, for it was all needed. The need of adjustment in the disciples must have been one great concern to the Lord. It should be of practical use to us now. We should get the basic idea and see how it works out practically. There is great care, great accuracy and yet everything needed is done. Everything among the disciples was brought into a suitable state.

E.C.T. All the divine Persons are active now in view of the saints being together.

J.T. I think so. I think it ought to raise inquiry with us as to how the brethren come together and whether the idea of Acts 2:44 goes through, that we are together in heart, although not physically.

J.H. Does verse 44 link on with the Lord's prayer in John 17, that we should be one?

J.T. Quite so. We can understand how that would be in His mind for ourselves, though the twelve would be in His mind particularly. There should be no discrepancy at all. Paul in Philippians takes up the thought of unity in the brethren in a peculiarly affecting way. He says "If then there be any comfort in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and compassions, fulfil my joy, that ye may think the same thing, having the same love, joined in soul, thinking one thing", Philippians 2:1. The language is really the key to what we have before us, and it occurs in an epistle that bears on the assembly peculiarly, and on the service of God in the West, too. Philippi was westward, and indicates that the divine thought was in that direction in order to get material suited to the assembly, so that it should be completed.

J.Ttr. What is the bearing of all this upon us now?

J.T. I should say, that in the verses I read from Philippians, it would be the refinement of the assembly. It is a time for refinement, as we come to the end of the dispensation. Philippians carries that with it.

Rem. The saints should answer to what Christ was down here.

J.T. That is so. It is a question of the assembly, and there can be no discrepancy between Christ and the assembly.

Rem. Ephesians would bring out the thought of the heavenlies, and our being like Christ there but Philippians what is down here; both equally glorious.

J.T. Yes, indeed. You can see the thoughts the Lord would keep before us. However little we may actually reach them, yet let us get the thoughts in our minds. The Lord is with us in that, and that will lead to prayer and make for possible adjustment.

H.P.W. You are speaking of what really lies in the fact of the brethren being together.

J.T. We are drawing near the end, and the Lord is concerned that there should be no slipping away, as the writer of Hebrews warns us, but that we should rather go on to perfection. We want to go on to perfection.

J.S.E. Is there a need in our day of what was seen in Pentecostal days?

J.T. I should say so, the basic elements of the dispensation. The Lord laboured in view of preparing material. The material was the kind needed, but the incoming of the Spirit would put it together and bring about all the fine feelings that belonged to it. It took time, not that the Lord needed time, but we do in view of our coming into it. Therefore the completion of the matter awaited Paul's day which was some time later, and that is to be in our minds, but we are to come into things now, and there is very little time available. Time is about the scarcest thing that those of us who are serving the Lord have, and we are apt to miss the prime thought unless we make room for time required. We should make room for the needed time, hence the need of keeping the sabbath, that we should come under the influence of divine things, that they should have their full bearing on us.

H.P.W. There is the necessity of paying attention to what the Lord has to do in us, rather than through us.

J.T. Quite so. The idea of sabbath has to do with it. The full influence of the thing, whatever it be, let it come in, let it be absorbed. There is the thought of lying fallow. The sabbath is in view of that. The Lord would be merciful to us and remind us we cannot go in for the big things of men. Things in this world have to be done on a big scale and that inflates, and the saints are to avoid that and learn to go on with the things of God, to make room for the work of God.

Rem. Solomon speaks of little things.

J.T. Quite so. The little things are as important as the big things in one way, because where everything is absolutely necessary things must be attended to, however small. Therefore the Lord has helped the brethren in the service of God, and how much has had to be considered and is being considered.

Now the passage in Matthew 18 shows the peculiar feature of that gospel, the Lord being here always. He says, "behold, I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age", Matthew 28:20. It is in the light of that, the Lord said, "where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them". Matthew 18:20. It is in the light of that, the light of the Lord being here always. "Behold, I am with you all the days", Matthew 28:20, He says.

Ques. What would be the bearing of being gathered together unto His name, versus the Lord always being with us?

J.T. I think the idea is, protection lest the operations should be interfered with, for we are to do whatever is to be done. The Lord did the inaugurating work, the Spirit did His, but there is our part. The Lord says, "I am with you all the days", Matthew 28:20, but the work is to be done by us.

Rem. The maintenance of the things of Christ depends on faithfulness.

J.T. Quite so. I was reminded of 2 Kings 13:14, where we read, that "Elisha fell sick of his sickness in which he died. And Joash the king of Israel came down to him and wept over his face, and said, My father, my father! the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof! And Elisha said to him, Take bow and arrows". He was first to shoot eastward, and then to smite on the ground. In the shooting eastward the prophet put his hands on the king's hands. The king was doing it, but his hands were supported and steadied by the prophet's hands. That is a suggestion we might take on. It is as if the Lord is saying, 'It is your work, but I will help you'. We can count on His help.

G.G. What is the force of "in the midst of them", Matthew 18:20?

J.T. As in the midst of the brethren, the Lord has each one in His mind; "there am I in the midst of them". Matthew 18:20. It is a peculiar phrase. If you were there you would feel He was there on your account, and if I was there I would feel He was there on my account. Each one is brought into it.

Rem. It would encourage the meetings that are very small.

J.T. Yes, and the greatest things can be done there. We do not release ourselves of obligation because we are few. The general idea of the pattern is there, the whole idea is there. Things are held, and heaven is supporting us.

Ques. Must not the pattern be held on to at all costs?

J.T. Just so, and heaven is helping us in that. 1 Corinthians 15 speaks of the Lord's appearings to His own, and the first is to Cephas and then to the twelve. However small the number may be, the idea is there. It is most important for small gatherings, and for big ones, because big ones may lose the sense of dependence because of their bigness, whereas little ones are protected by dependence.

Ques. Is each local gathering functioning in relation to the complete whole, and the Lord in the midst in that connection?

J.T. That is the thought exactly. There is only one pattern of the tabernacle, the word is singular. Each one is to have the idea, otherwise how can you function?

J.H. In relation to gathering unto His name, do you think of certain occasions or is it general?

J.T. Taking this particular verse in view of what has been said, it is more for care, the brethren coming together in care.

J.H. Does it embrace the prayer meeting?

J.T. I doubt it. It is general care. The word prayer is used in Acts 16:13, "where it was the custom for prayer to be". That is a place by itself. "My name" involves protection. His being in the midst is more than protection, but we should be conscious that He is there and we count on His presence. It is not for leading brothers, but for all. Each is conscious that the Lord is there and He is there to help.

J.F.G. Would things be rightly regulated in this way?

J.T. Yes. The prophet in 2 Kings 13, would be unerring in his shooting, in guiding the king's hands, for he had the objective clearly in his mind. He had, so to say, descended from Elijah. He asked Elijah for a double portion of his spirit, and he received it as Elijah went up. This guiding of the king's hand, refers to objective truth; in this he was guided accurately. It might allude to a time of weakness.

Ques. Would you get a reference in David? He was angry when evil broke out in his house, but did nothing, and lost the throne.

J.T. Quite so. He did nothing when his son came back unkissed. David was wanting in the whole period of that second book of Samuel. You get the weakness of the king, weakness of the leading brethren really. Persons were allowed in that should not have been allowed in and they became lawless. So this verse covers much. The Lord says, 'I am with you, I want each one of you to know I am here'. The word is "in the midst of them", Matthew 18:20, not it. It is a question of the persons.

Rem. When we want to do things the Lord helps us.

J.T. Yes, it is an encouraging thought, especially in times of the awful opposition now current. Leaving that, we should get a word on the idea of assembling in 1 Corinthians 11:17. We see the apostle is speaking of something that is the very opposite to what had been there. Things were not being done well at all. They were acting disgracefully, even in the assembly in Corinth.

So he says, "in prescribing to you on this which I now enter on, I do not praise, namely, that ye come together, not for the better, but for the worse", 1 Corinthians 11:17, "When ye come therefore together into one place, it is not to eat the Lord's supper", 1 Corinthians 11:20. Paul means that they were not really doing it. They were not eating the Lord's supper. "For each one in eating takes his own supper before others, and one is hungry and another drinks to excess. Have ye not then houses for eating and drinking? or do ye despise the assembly of God, and put to shame them who have not"?, 1 Corinthians 11:21,22 And then he adds, "shall I praise you? In this point I do not praise". 1 Corinthians 11:22. So that the Lord is speaking through His servant and intimating He is not pleased with the way things are done.

J.Ttr. Does it mean we may assemble outwardly without suitable conditions among us?

J.T. That is so, though I would take the passage as it is; we may have outward order, but it is more outward disorder here. This may be seen even in our attitude in assembly, when we come together, in a careless attitude assumed in conduct. Such a thing is very objectionable, because it is in the presence of the Lord, in the assembly. The young ones are coming on, and the older are going, the Lord is taking them one by one; and if the young do not learn while the older ones are among them, they are at great disadvantage. Therefore the older ones should be in order, and the young get right ideas as to conduct.

Eu.R. We need a reverential attitude.

J.T. That is what I was thinking. It is a question for the older ones as to whether we know how to hold the younger, how the youth are to be controlled in the assembly in presence of such great things.

J.S.E. We need to distinguish between the assembly position and our house position.

J.T. Our houses should bear on the assembly profitably and educationally.

Eu.R. It is very solemn to despise the assembly of God.

J.T. It is. We should think of the use of the word. It is not always used in the same sense. It is used for the greatest thing, "in assembly". There is nothing like it. It is a question of learning and understanding, that behaviour should be in keeping with it. The elder ones should see to it that the conduct of the younger is kept suitable. In our own houses these things should be dealt with.

J.H. It says of Adonijah "his father had not grieved him at any time", 1 Kings 1:6.

J.T. The Lord is greatly concerned about households. It is mainly through Paul that the truth of households has come out, as if everything is left till he is on the scene. The Lord used the twelve, of course, undoubtedly they were all used of God, though only two or three are mentioned as being used. But it seems as if He is saying something to us as to refinement in Paul. Job said, "By his Spirit the heavens are adorned", Job 26:13. In the creation with which we have to do, the Spirit of God brooded over the deep in the beginning, but Job tells us, not that the heavens were created, but that God garnished them by His Spirit. Much was done in earlier days before the Lord's death and resurrection, yet all was in view of the assembly. When the assembly was established through Paul's ministry, things were to be done by which it became evident that it was "the all-various wisdom of God", Ephesians 3:10. That is in the assembly. It is through Paul's ministry that we come to understand that wisdom. The Lord would, I believe, remind us that we are coming to the time of refinement, not merely the general principles of christianity, but refinement, so that we are to go into heaven aright. The Lord was received up. He was carried up, and the assembly also has a great place in heaven. So we see her "coming down out of the heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband", Revelation 21:2. That

shows the refinement that is to be there. The Lord would say to us as to refinement, not only how things began. Job says that by His Spirit God garnished the heavens, He put the finishing touches on, so to speak. The assembly should be ready for that.

J.S.E. Is that the force of coming together in assembly.

J.T. The definite article is not there, "when ye come together in assembly", 1 Corinthians 11:18, not the assembly as in chapter 14, when the whole assembly comes together. It may apply to a sub-division in a town like this. Any number of gatherings may be there and each functioning. The "in" would apply to power there.

J.B. "God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints", Psalm 89:7.

J.T. That is a good scripture, the assembly of His saints.

Rem. Noah's dove at first found no place for the soul of her foot. We should make room for the Spirit in the assembly.

J.T. There is tenderness suggested in the reference to the dove, refinement as over against the raven, a carnivorous creature. The dove was in anticipation of the Spirit coming down on the Lord Jesus. It was how He came down on Him.

THE ASSEMBLY (1)

Acts 2:47; Acts 8:1 - 3; Acts 9:31; Acts 14:23

J.T. These scriptures cover what is said of the assembly from the outset of the book of Acts until the verse read in chapter 14. There are other allusions to the assembly, but these suffice to bring out what is in mind, namely, that with the exception of chapters 13 and 14, the assembly is regarded as metropolitan almost throughout; that is, it is alluded to in the main as in Jerusalem. The passage in chapter 9 calls attention to the plural; the assemblies, although the reading is doubtful. If it be simply the assembly it would mean that the metropolitan idea runs on throughout until this verse, and even until the verse read in chapter 14, with the exception already mentioned. The intent in calling attention to this feature is not to enlarge on metropolitanism in the assembly, but rather the contrary. The divine thought as to the assembly is that it is universal but functioning in localities, not in a central position. In keeping with this it should be noted that the idea of a general gathering or church council of the assembly universally is not found in Scripture, save in Acts 15, although it has been adopted by the christian profession almost continuously, tending to centralisation and to rob the saints of the liberty of the Spirit.

The first mention of the plural; that is, of assemblies, is in chapter 9:31: "The assemblies then throughout the whole of Judaea and Galilee and Samaria had peace, being edified and walking in the fear of the Lord, and were increased through the comfort of the Holy Spirit". Acts 9:31. The gatherings throughout Judaea and elsewhere, were marked by growth and spiritual power and liberty. This had been lost until within comparatively recent times, and the saints have now been enabled to return to what

marked the beginning; hence the liberty that we have now, throughout the world, we might say, especially throughout the Western world, for there is not much of the assembly in the East, not much in Asia; hardly anything. The truth of the assembly spread toward the West, and the liberty that belongs to it has developed. In Acts 2:47, it is said, that the saints were praising God, and had favour with all the people, and, that the Lord added to them. The expression "to the assembly" is not in the original, but the thought is there; that is, there is something to be added to, and that something was persons. The additions took place daily, of those that were to be saved, that is to say, those whom God had in mind for salvation, and hence qualified for part in the assembly.

F.W.K. Metropolitanism would have the effect of hindering the Spirit's operations and thus tending to bondage; whereas the free development of the truth in localities would, on the contrary, tend to liberty and to spiritual growth?

J.T. That is exactly what is in mind. Metropolitanism has reached its full growth in Rome, but also largely in the Church of England; both systems are metropolitan, but particularly Rome, a system centring in an earthly city. The centre for the assembly is in heaven; she belongs to heaven.

R. Does the opening of the epistle to the Corinthians give the position?

J.T. It does. It is the first epistle of Paul in which the truth of the assembly is opened up, not opened up in its heavenly character, as it is in Ephesians, but in its local character; and bearing on all localities in which the assembly is; as it is said, to "all that in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both theirs and ours", 1 Corinthians 1:2. There was the assembly at Corinth, but there were other assemblies. Wherever there were those who called on the name of the Lord they are

regarded in this way, "both theirs and ours", 1 Corinthians 1:2, that is, the Lord is their Lord and our Lord, tending to unity.

E.C.L. Is the thought that direction should come from heaven? Paul said he had "received of the Lord" 1 Corinthians 11:23, not from Jerusalem.

J.T. Just so, and that is one of the points that is in mind, that it awaited Paul as the special vessel, to open up the truth of the mystery. He said that he had received the ministry of the assembly, as well as the ministry of the gospel, and the ministry of reconciliation, but he had received the ministry of the assembly, the mystery, and it looks as if it awaited the advent of Paul's service to open up this great truth. It is he that gives us, we might say, all the truth governing the assembly.

Rem. Barnabas went "to Tarsus to seek out Saul", Acts 11:25 and bringing him they taught a whole year in the assembly, and "the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch", Acts 11:26, not at Jerusalem.

J.T. Well, that is a good point, because it shows how the thought of its being the centre was being taken away, as you might say, torn away from, Jerusalem, because the scattering had taken place already, and the apostles only had remained in Jerusalem. It would indicate that in the wisdom of God, His government had helped the truth, setting up in Antioch what would set aside Jerusalem as a centre. In chapter 14:23, we read about elders, as if the Pauline ministry having been furthered and established, each assembly needed its own elders. It is never said that an elder had authority beyond his own assembly, which shows how Rome has been contrary to the divine purpose in attempting the government of the assembly from one central city. We never read of one elder appointed for one city; it is elders -- the plural -- in every city.

A.C.S.P. In chapter 20, Paul, speaking to the elders of Ephesus, tells them to "take heed" "to all the flock, wherein the Holy Spirit has set you as overseers". Acts 20:28

J.T. Quite so, showing there were more than one, probably many. Eldership is a great matter, in view of the government of the assembly, the local assembly.

J.H.P. Would the service of "elders" shut out clericalism in that things would be shared?

J.T. Quite so; it would set aside clericalism, and the clerical idea of a man having a flock; it is contrary to the thought of the assembly. There is, of course, the idea of the flock of God, which the elders of Ephesus were to take care of, but there is no such thought in the scriptures of one man being in charge of a flock. Christ is the Shepherd, "the great shepherd of the sheep", Hebrews 13:20, and "there shall be one flock, one shepherd". John 10:16.

Great cities with several sub-divisions of assemblies, are apt to take on the metropolitan idea, and to that extent to rob the saints of liberty. Where there is a growth of meetings, covering large areas in a large city, these tend to metropolitanism and to rob the saints of liberty; because as following one thought, they may acquire local distinction, and develop the metropolis idea, which tends to enhance unduly the influence of any such place.

Rem. At the end of chapter 2 what we have set forth is in persons, but no place is mentioned; the moral quality of the persons is emphasised.

J.T. That is good. The apostles are mentioned in the section. There is allusion mainly to the great number of converts in Jerusalem, doubtless tending afterwards to give to the place the metropolitan idea, because we have no such ingathering of converts recorded at one time, in any other place. No doubt God had in mind to strengthen the whole position, and the Spirit having come in we have evidence of what could be done; what the presence of the Spirit was capable of; namely, the conversion of three thousand persons. Following on that, we have the unifying thought of apostolic power and authority, as expressed in verse 42, "they persevered in

the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers". Acts 2:42 Christ's apostles are seen as an authority, representative of Himself at first. The added ones, "persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles", Acts 2:42, establishing a great principle, that the rule of heaven was to be recognised through the apostles, although the heavenly side is not yet brought forth; as we said, it awaited Paul, but still the Spirit had come out of heaven; He had come out of heaven to earth, and was the power of operation, even the power of conversion, in all these people.

H.S. Is that why teaching comes in here, after the preaching of the gospel by Peter?

J.T. Well, it shows the importance of teaching. It might be thought, why not take up the teaching of Moses, and the prophets, but they are not alluded to. What is called attention to is the fact that the added ones, the converts, in large numbers immediately recognised the teaching of the apostles. It is said in verse 37 that those who heard "were pricked in heart, and said to Peter and the other apostles". Acts 2:37. Now that is remarkable, because it shows the distinction the apostles had already acquired. There were twelve of them; Peter was the speaker, but the others were recognised by the converts; the only persons they recognised were the apostles, as if the Spirit would call attention to them as the authoritative representatives of Christ; the idea of Christ's authority is thus at once established in the twelve, and laid hold of by the converts, who continue as is said, in the teaching of the apostles and the fellowship of the apostles. Then we have something additional which in itself does not imply the apostles' authority; namely, the "breaking of bread and prayers". Acts 2:42. The breaking of bread was an assembly matter and would continue so, and prayers would be an assembly matter. The Lord had taught His disciples the idea of the breaking of bread, and He had taught them to pray, so that they were taught

already aside from the apostles, as we may say. There was the Lord's own direct teaching, and of course, that remains now, and though we have not the apostles, we have the Lord, and the Spirit, but at the beginning, the importance of the apostles is greatly stressed as in this section.

A.W. Would you connect that with John's epistle? "he that knows God hears us", 1 John 4:6. Would that refer to the apostles?

J.T. Well, clearly the "us" there would be the apostles. It was no empty claim, because they were really endowed with wonderful powers, including Peter, John and the others; even Matthias, the latest appointee to apostleship, is recognised by heaven, the full number of twelve is there; he completed the number.

A.M. The twelve apostles of the Lamb are in the foundations of the city. They are seen at the end as well as at the beginning.

J.T. Showing the thought has gone through, it has come through to us, and will be seen in the heavenly city; it is important to bear that in mind.

A.M. Is it in your mind, that the apostles had not taken sufficient account of the Lord's word as to preaching in His name to all the nations, beginning at Jerusalem? They began at Jerusalem, but had they moved out?

J.T. Well, that would appear from the facts, and made it necessary for the Lord to take up another, whom He calls an "elect" vessel, to whom He gives the greatest powers, more than all of them; in fact, that is the ministry of the assembly, the ministry of the gospel, and the ministry of reconciliation, and the completion of the word of God.

W.H. Would the persecution recorded in chapter 8 serve to militate against metropolitanism? God allowed it.

J.T. Well, I think that is good. God is often seen as

intervening governmentally when things are not going well amongst the saints. It is just possible that the terrible thing that has happened during the past five or six years is an evidence of this, that God intends to better the conditions amongst His people. We do well to notice it, to judge everything that is contrary, we might say, to Paul's ministry, because that is the governing thought in the assembly.

In chapter 8 we read that "Saul was consenting to his being killed"; Acts 8:1, that is, Stephen. "And on that day there arose a great persecution against the assembly". Acts 8:1. Notice, it was "against the assembly", the assembly in Jerusalem; "and all were scattered into the countries of Judaea and Samaria except the apostles". Acts 8:1. It seems clear that God came in to help the brethren to maintain the liberties proper to them. He caused this scattering, which seemed to be a calamity, but in result it furthered the truth, because we are told later that those that were scattered through it "went through the countries announcing the glad tidings of the word". Acts 8:4. "There were certain of them, Cyprians and Cyrenians, who entering into Antioch spoke to the Greeks also, announcing the glad tidings of the Lord Jesus. And the Lord's hand was with them, and a great number believed and turned to the Lord. And the report concerning them reached the ears of the assembly which was in Jerusalem, and they sent out Barnabas to go through as far as Antioch: who, having arrived and seeing the grace of God, rejoiced, and exhorted all with purpose of heart to abide with the Lord; for he was a good man and full of the Holy Spirit and of faith; and a large crowd of people were added to the Lord". Acts 11:20 - 24 And then Barnabas "went away to Tarsus to seek out Saul", (that is, Paul). "And having found him, he brought him to Antioch. And so it was with them that for a whole year they were gathered together in the assembly and taught a large crowd: and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch". Acts 11:25,26 We

have definitely set out here the idea in the word christian; they became followers of Christ; and then Paul and Barnabas being used at this particular time, shows how the assembly became established, through Paul's ministry largely.

Ques. Jerusalem might have wished to retain those excellent men, but the Lord had said of Himself that "I must needs announce the glad tidings of the kingdom of God to the other cities also". Luke 4:43

J.T. Quite so. That shows that metropolitanism was not in the Lord's mind. Jerusalem was to have a great place at the start, and the apostles were to stay there at the beginning, to begin there to preach, but they were only to begin there. It was to spread out into all the world.

E.C.L. Is there something to be learned from the fact that no persons are named in the movement at Antioch. It is just said that they were Cyprians and Cyrenians?

J.T. Well, it shows the idea of spreading. The word "Japheth" means spreading, and Japheth's family undoubtedly was in mind, as that out of which the assembly would be called. The idea of spreading, I believe, began at Antioch; it began at Jerusalem, as a matter of fact, but it was through scattering, but at Antioch others moved out in gospel work. That is what we can see in chapter 13. It became a sort of centre, but only on moral grounds. Paul and Barnabas came back to Antioch after they went out on their first missionary journey; it was, you might say, a moral right of that assembly that they should do so, but they are not said to have done it again. They came back to Antioch after their first missionary journey and remained for many days too, and then the judaising spirit had to be met, and Paul and Barnabas went up to Jerusalem to meet it, hut Antioch was never intended to be a centre.

A.M. The very idea of movement seen so much in the apostle Paul's service is an important part of the life of the assembly. Metropolitanism is a stationary idea.

J.T. Quite so, the assembly is never intended to be stationary, it is intended to be in movement. The tabernacle in the wilderness is the type of it. We are moving out of the world into heaven, really, as to the moral side.

R.B. The spreading was necessary for multiplication.

J.T. So that the saints are to be marked by love. "By love serve one another". Galatians 5:13. Whatever influence is allowed, it is not by numbers; it is by moral power. The moral influence we have, is by love.

Ques. Is the love drawn out from Antioch, through God's ways of government? He allowed a famine to come so that Jerusalem is indebted to Antioch.

J.T. The first governmental intervention, I suppose, would be the persecution that arose at the death of Stephen. Paul was the agent of it, but the Lord robbed Satan of him, and turned him into His greatest servant. Then God caused a famine to promote the truth, and it brought out love; it brought out giving on the part of the saints. In chapter 11, we have the prophetic ministry in this matter, "Now in these days prophets went down from Jerusalem to Antioch; and one from among them, by name Agabus, rose up and signified by the Spirit that there was going to be a great famine over all the inhabited earth, which also came to pass under Claudius. And they determined, according as any one of the disciples was well off, each of them to send to the brethren who dwelt in Judaea, to minister to them; which also they did, sending it to the elders by the hand of Barnabas and Saul". Acts 11:27 - 30. So that Saul is immediately taken on, even in money matters; you might say he became a deacon for the moment, in carrying the money to the saints, showing that he was ready to do anything that would further the Lord's interest; such readiness should mark every servant.

A.C.S.P. What you are saying would tend to giving us all a more elevated and dignified impression of every local meeting as taking character from the whole.

J.T. Well, that is the idea, I think, and the passage read in chapter 14 is to bring that out, that each meeting was to stand, as it were, on its own feet; each had its own place, and equality with all other meetings, having assembly status, the elders being just means by which the saints should be instructed, and guarded, shepherded and fed. That is the idea of eldership. The elders are not said to have gifts, although they may have gifts, but their characteristic is ability through moral qualifications to rule; the word rule or care enters into their service.

L.F.J. Would they link with the priests of the Old Testament; priestly in their outlook in the locality?

J.T. Quite so. The priest is always supposed to be available among the saints. Exodus always considers that he is there. Every word spoken is to be at the word of the priest; that is, the priests and Levites in Deuteronomy. The word priest covers the Levites in Deuteronomy: the Levite is a minister of the truth, but it shows that ministry among the brethren tends to priestly power, tends to increase spirituality and understanding.

E.B. Would it be right to ask help as needed from neighbouring meetings?

J.T. I think so. We were speaking of elders not having gifts necessarily, but nevertheless there are gifts of government, and of course the gift of government would fit well with an elder, a man who can rule, and there is such a gift mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12. Therefore one having a gift of government in any place has liberty to go to any other place; he is not limited to the locality like an elder; a gift is always universal; therefore, if you have a man in this town who has shown himself to be able in caring for the saints, well, he ought to have liberty anywhere. The brethren should be quite at liberty to ask him to come and help them.

A.M. Acts 14:22,23 reads that "through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God. And having chosen them elders". You referred, in your prayer, to

entrance into the kingdom, the setting of the kingdom in relation to the assembly working out practically. The feature of rule is connected with the kingdom, and having referred to it, they chose elders.

J.T. Quite so. Experimental work in the kingdom of God would develop ability to rule. We are told that "we shall judge angels", 1 Corinthians 6:3, and the apostles were to judge the twelve tribes of Israel, so that we ought to be able to rightly judge matters between ourselves. It is important to show that the assembly is rendered independent of the world; it has in itself all that is needed, so that in Acts 14:23, it is said "having chosen them elders in each assembly". Now this is an advance on chapter 6, because there the people chose the deacons, but then the twelve ratified their choice. There is no thought of the people choosing elders, the apostles did it; "having chosen them elders in each assembly, having prayed with fastings, they committed them to the Lord, on whom they had believed". Acts 14:23. This verse serves well as finishing our subject; it leads up to the idea of what is plural in eldership, which is not metropolitan. Although the brethren in large cities have care meetings, and the Lord blesses them, the principle of eldership is a great point; the saints should be able to count on eldership to carry them through. It is a question of eldership, persons who care with genuine feeling how the saints get on.

H.H. That would fit in with Titus, "elders in each city". Titus 1:5. It would not be for the sub-divisions merely in large towns like London or New York.

J.T. The elder has rule in the whole of the city; that is very important. Another thing which should be noted particularly is, that "they committed them to the Lord, on whom they had believed". Acts 14:23. The apostles acted as if they could trust them, and have confidence in them, now that the elders were appointed, they had the means of carrying on. Even if the apostles did not come back again, the elders would be the means of carrying on, and

so it is today: the care meeting is used of the Lord to help us to carry on, in every place. The word every place is to be noted; that is what is said in 1 Corinthians 1:2. "All that in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both theirs and ours". Theirs and ours would mean what is universal, the same Lord is universal, and all that flows out from the lordship of Christ belongs to all the assemblies; so that we are moving in unity, and Paul says, "I ordain in all the assemblies"; 1 Corinthians 7:17; certain things were to be ordained, and whatever is ordained in one is ordained in all, so that there are no specialities.

W.P. Is that the way salvation works out, "those that were to be saved", Acts 2:47?

J.T. Well, I think so. I think salvation was placed in the assembly in that sense. It is said in the Old Testament that God placed salvation in Zion, which is the same thing, the assembly answering to Zion. God has placed salvation in Zion, that was where it was to be found, and so it is to be found now among the saints; salvation is a very important thing for young christians, and to keep close by the saints. Salvation is there, and "the Lord added to the assembly", Acts 2:47, or leaving out the assembly "the Lord added daily", meaning He added to what was there. Salvation, of course, is in Christ; salvation is by the death of Christ, and so forth, but when you say it is in the assembly, then it is the general thought involving the influence for good that is found in the assembly, the authority of the apostles, the authority of love, and all else, is tending to keep the saints together, to keep them out of the world.

R.B. Would you say more about the committal to the Lord?

J.T. I think it is a very precious thing, that you can commit the saints to the Lord. If there is no one else, you can count upon the Lord, but especially if the elders are there, persons chosen. There can be no suggestion that the brethren are counting on themselves. You are

counting on the Lord, but as Matthew would teach us, the Lord would have His own to do the work, but He will be with us in doing it. That is really the point in Matthew, and therefore Matthew is the great assembly gospel.

Matthew should be read with the Acts, particularly, but John's gospel should be read in regard of life; Matthew should be read in relation to assembly government, because the Lord says "I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age", Matthew 28:20, and significantly the Lord does not say that He is going to heaven at all. Matthew does not record the ascension, as if he were saying to us, The Lord will be always with you; you can count on Him, and therefore we do not need to turn to any bishop or pope, or council, or any other association of men to carry on things for the Lord. The assembly has all that is needed, especially the Lord Himself.

A.C.S.P. Would it be a right thing for saints to desire to qualify to serve on this line, that we might desire to have those qualities today.

J.T. There is the idea of choice here, "having chosen them elders in each assembly", Acts 14:23, and it would mean, if we allow the idea of choice, in any sense, whether it be a brother that might be counted on to visit saints especially, or to look after the gospel, or to look after the money, all of which have importance, well, he has to have certain qualifications, and you may be sure that the apostles chose these men because they had these qualifications. It is not said that they had them, but we may be sure, according to what Paul said to Titus and Timotheus, that they would have the qualifications.

F.R. It is on returning to these places that this choosing is done. Would time be allowed for the development of suitability in those chosen? It is not immediately on presentation of the glad tidings, but on their return to these places. It says, "And having announced the glad tidings to that city, and having made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, and

Iconium, and Antioch, establishing the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to abide in the faith" "and having chosen them elders", Acts 14:21 - 23.

J.T. This passage in chapter 14 really bears on the whole position of returning, of apostolic return to the places where the assemblies had been set up, and it is well borne out in the Lord's own example. It says of Him that He came in and went out among the apostles, from the time of the baptism of John until He was taken up, meaning that there would be visitations by the Lord to different places. The same is seen in the letters to the assemblies, and also in Samuel's ministry, for he had a circuit in which he went round to certain places. I believe the thought of going round to see what is being effected is most important, and especially there in what Paul proposes. "Let us return", he says, "after certain days Paul said to Barnabas, Let us return now and visit the brethren in every city where we have announced the word of the Lord, and see how they are getting on" Acts 15:36.

J.H. Paul in Acts 20 gives a word of warning to the elders. He expected to find them there.

J.T. Quite so; he sent for them; as you say, he warned them. But there is one point he makes there, the elders were constituted overseers in the flock of God; the Holy Spirit had done that, not the apostles. Of course, that holds today, whatever there be in the way of office, the Holy Spirit is here to appoint, to choose, using whom He will, of course.

E.C.L. Would the qualifications of the elder be recognised in the fact that he is able to follow the teaching of the apostles and is in touch with the ministry universally?

J.T. Just so. It is a very important matter that we should observe the apostolic teaching; and if there be any question arising it is the first thing to be considered; then the Old Testament may serve us, and will,

but we must first consult the apostles in matters of doctrine.

C.W. Paul told Timothy to "rekindle the gift", 2 Timothy 1:6, that was in him.

J.T. Quite so, even in the evangelical service. Whatever it was that he had, he should stir it up, rekindle it. We all need that exhortation; whatever we have, to make the best use of it, and the brethren ought to discern what we have and make room for us; we make room for each other, "as to honour, each taking the lead in paying it to the other", Romans 12:10.

THE ASSEMBLY (2)

Acts 15:36 - 41; Acts 16:6 - 15; Acts 18:1 - 11

J.T. The inquiry alluded to already began with Acts 2 and continued to chapter 14, taking account of certain parts of the history of the assembly, showing at the outset its metropolitan character and bearing, but that under Paul, through him and through his ministry, Barnabas included, the assembly attained its universal character, and with the addition of appointed eldership, as chapter 14 relates, that Paul and Barnabas "having chosen them elders in each assembly, having prayed with fastings, they committed them to the Lord, on whom they had believed". Acts 14:23. This is the first reference to the appointment of elders. There had been deacons appointed, but now elders, involving rule in each assembly. It is said, "having chosen them elders in each assembly", Acts 14:23, that is, each assembly being set up with ability to rule itself, to take care of itself to a certain limit, under the Lord, but having relation to all other assemblies, as indeed there is only one in the general sense. And so along with government, there is to be catholicity, as is taught in 1 Corinthians, Paul saying "thus I ordain in all the assemblies". 1 Corinthians 7:17. They were all to be governed by the same principles.

Well, that runs on, according to the facts, to the end of chapter 14, and then there is a break; not a complete break, but a breakaway from the metropolitan thought, the assembly no longer being wholly regarded as in Jerusalem, as it used to be; the metropolitan was recognised so far, in that certain doctrines having been promulgated by Jews in Jerusalem, and in Judaea, the saints in Antioch decided to send Paul and Barnabas to Jerusalem in view of the bad doctrine being taught. This really created an epoch in the history of the assembly; it

is, we might say, the first and last general assembly. The idea of a general assembly is never recognised after Acts 15. It has been followed by christendom, of course, but not recognised in the Scriptures, nor in the teaching of the apostles and certainly not in the teaching which the Holy Spirit has recovered for us in recent times; that is to say, a century or so ago; so that the idea of a general assembly is never thought of now by those who walk in the truth; it is a question of what is in each assembly, all governed by the same principles, maintaining unity.

It is thought that, having these remarks before us, we might pursue the history of the assembly, in the Acts, after chapter 15; that is, after a certain breakdown at Jerusalem, and bad doctrine, and metropolitanism too, and especially the breaking away of Barnabas on account of John Mark. All these have a bearing on the metropolitan thought, whereas Paul, we are told in Acts 15:40, "having chosen Silas went forth, committed by the brethren to the grace of God". So the history runs through, recognising, in a large measure, geographical circumstances which have not to be ignored, and involving that the course of the truth of the assembly bore toward the West instead of toward the East, or instead of generally. The Spirit of God, as recorded in chapter 16, restricted the movements except toward the West. The Spirit had forbidden the speaking of the word of God in Asia, and following on that, it is said, that "they attempted to go to Bithynia and the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them; and having passed by Mysia they descended to Troas. And a vision appeared to Paul in the night: There was a certain Macedonian man, standing and beseeching him, and saying, Pass over into Macedonia and help us. And when he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go forth to Macedonia, concluding that the Lord had called us to announce to them the glad tidings". Acts 16:7 - 10.

There is something for us to learn in all that and to

more fully understand too, the bearing of the truth since the Pauline time and ministry.

W.S.S. Is it in your mind that we always tend towards metropolitanism and need to be preserved from it?

J.T. Well, that is true, and it is seen in proportion to the numerical importance of certain localities, or the political importance, it may be. Whatever may give importance according to man tends in that direction; especially now, since the principle has been set aside by God. The metropolitan idea was transferred to heaven, really, for "Jerusalem above" is said to be "our mother"; Jerusalem above, not Jerusalem on earth, but Jerusalem above, and that holds now, that all control is from that centre.

W.S.S. What found expression in Jerusalem on earth, as a metropolitan centre, is really in all our hearts, and we would tend in that direction unless we are preserved from it by the ministry and by the Holy Spirit.

J.T. Hence the great importance of the Holy Spirit as we arrive at this section. When Paul went to Ephesus, chapter 19, he found certain disciples, twelve men, and he inquired of them as to the Holy Spirit. Verse 1 says, "Paul, having passed through the upper districts, came to Ephesus, and finding certain disciples, he said to them, Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye had believed"?, Acts 19:1,2. It was on Paul's heart, clearly, especially in view of the number of the persons, namely twelve, an administrative number, that the Holy Spirit should be recognised. The number would really take the place of metropolitanism; that is, the number of brethren being figurative of administrative power and authority.

A.C.S.P. In chapter 15, when Paul and Silas go out again, they are committed to the grace of God by the brethren, and not by the apostles.

J.T. Well, that is good. It seems as if the position at Jerusalem was somewhat discredited by what had happened and Barnabas added to that, which was, perhaps,

quite unexpected, in view of Barnabas' earlier character. Galatians 2 refers to Paul and Barnabas at this juncture. Paul says, "after a lapse of fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus also with me; and I went up according to revelation, and I laid before them the glad tidings which I preach among the nations". Acts 2:1,2. This bears on Acts 15, showing what was going on in Paul's heart and mind at the time, when he took Titus, who was a gentile, with him. "I went up according to revelation, and I laid before them the glad tidings which I preach among the nations, but privately to those conspicuous among them, lest in any way I run or had run in vain; but neither was Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, compelled to be circumcised". Galatians 2:2,3.

Paul is showing that at this juncture he was holding for the truth that governed the general position; that is, the general Pauline position of the assembly, so that, the Greek, Titus, was not compelled to be circumcised, and then he says that his going up to Jerusalem was because or on account of "the false brethren brought in surreptitiously, who came in surreptitiously to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage". Galatians 2:4. The enemy was out to destroy the work of Paul and Barnabas among the gentiles, "to whom we yielded in subjection not even for an hour, that the truth of the glad tidings might remain with you". Galatians 2:5. There was some competition as to who was who at Jerusalem, "whatsoever they were" (Paul said), "it makes no difference to me: God does not accept man's person; for to me those who were conspicuous communicated nothing; but, on the contrary, seeing that the glad tidings of the uncircumcision were confided to me"; Galatians 2:6,7; notice here that "the glad tidings of the uncircumcision", Galatians 2:7, is formally recognised, "even as to Peter that of the circumcision (for he that wrought in Peter for the apostleship of the circumcision wrought also in me towards the gentiles) and recognising the grace given to

me, James and Cephas and John, who were conspicuous as being pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go to the nations, and they to the circumcision". Galatians 2:7 - 9. We may see there what was going on in Paul's mind at this juncture, and it was that the truth of the general position should be maintained, the truth of the universal character of the assembly and of the gospel should be maintained.

C.O.B. Did John Mark bring the feature of metropolitanism with him?

J.T. Well, I think he would lean in that direction. He was governed, I would say, by Jewish influences at the time. He left the work, you know, at a critical time, according to chapter 15. The general position of the assembly reaches up to Corinth in this section. It presents to us the assembly as it has come to us, centring in the Lord's supper. Up till this time the Lord's supper was not very prominent; it was there, it is alluded to in chapter 2, but there was very little made of it, but very much is made of it by Paul.

W.S.S. It all emphasises the absolute necessity of being governed by Paul's ministry in connection with all assembly truth.

J.T. Hence you get so much in the epistle to the Corinthians by Paul of his authority and his instructions, and that whatever was left uninstructed would be attended to later. Everything must be attended to and done properly. The working out of the truth locally is in mind; bearing on this town and throughout the coast here, a very important section of the assembly, so to speak; how important it is that all should be governed by the same principles, and that these should be Paul's principles; right principles according to God.

Rem. That would be a preservative for each local company, and would help to preserve us m our universal bearings, moving together thus rather than on metropolitan lines.

J.T. Well, that is the thought, exactly, and therefore I believe the Lord is greatly helping the brethren in ministry through one and another; that ministry being, as you might say, controlled in right hands, not simply left to anyone to say what he likes; but that there is the principle of control; that is, the Spirit of God has scope In those who are serving or ministering. It is no matter of human control, but the control of the Spirit of God through the scriptures.

E.C.L. Would you tell us what is the point of the word "Pass over", "and help us". Acts 16:9.

J.T. Well, that raises another point; that is, that geography has something to do with this matter of the truth. The Spirit of God was moving in that direction; He forbade the word being spoken in Asia, which is remarkable; the word there refers to the province of Asia, not to the Continent, but to the province. "Having come down to Mysia, they attempted to go to Bithynia", Acts 16:7, which would be another section of western Asia, "and the Spirit of Jesus", that too has to be noted; it is "the Spirit of Jesus", meaning that the manhood of Christ is to be observed in the truth. The Spirit "did not allow them", and then "having passed by Mysia they descended to Troas", Acts 16:8, and here "a vision appeared to Paul in the night"; Acts 16:9; we shall see he had another vision in chapter 18, another kind of vision, having another relation, but here it is a vision appeared to Paul in the night. "There was a certain Macedonian man, standing and beseeching him, and saying, Pass over into Macedonia and help us. And when he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go forth to Macedonia, concluding that the Lord had called us to announce to them the glad tidings". Acts 16:9

Now Macedonia was Europe, of course, and it was particularly the Greek world, we might say; not the Roman world but the Greek world as over against the Eastern world, and ever since that time the truth has

moved in this direction, even although it may not always be in Greece, or even in Europe; it has moved in Europeans, persons who have migrated to the West and the South; the Spirit of God has followed them with the truth, the truth of the gospel and the truth of the assembly, this is to be observed. It is believed that the brethren should all understand this and move accordingly in their prayers and their general exercises.

P.A.R. Is that why Luke comes in here? He had the nations in view.

J.T. Just so. He was possibly a Greek, a gentile himself. The movement was in accordance, I would say, with what was in mind in the distribution of the nations after the flood; Japheth refers to the West, the name Japheth means "spreading"; he was spread abroad; and so you can see how that tribe or branch of the human race has spread abroad, not only in Europe but in continents beyond.

R.B. You would think of Australia and America as being in this?

J.T. Very much so. The Lord referred to the Queen of the South; I think He had more in mind simply than the position that the Queen of Sheba actually occupied. I suppose He would have thought of what the South might be in the ways of God, and what it has come to be, a very important matter in the testimony now.

W.S.S. The continents of America and Australia are really extensions of Europe.

J.T. Well, that is the idea exactly, and I think the brethren might as well know that. There is no question of geography by itself, but as to how God works. "The earth is the Lord's" 1 Corinthians 10:26, we are told, and He can use it as He pleases, and if He uses it in this sense we may as well bow to it.

W.S.S. Is your thought that we should be exercised and alert to recognise the spheres in which the Spirit of God is specially working at any given time?

J.T. That is what I was thinking. As we think of the East the greater part of the human race there is not touched by the doctrine of christianity, and God must be reserving that for some other testimony; anyway, He is not doing it now; He is working, in view of the assembly, in the West.

W.S.S. In the light of that, many might say, Why do we not go abroad to such places?

J.T. Well, Paul was not allowed to go there at the time of which we are speaking. The Spirit of Jesus suffered him not. Modern missionary effort is directed toward the East, but is what God has said about it, or what the Spirit of God says about it being observed?

A.Mh. Would Naphtali's blessing bear on what you are saying? "Naphtali, satisfied with favour, And full of the blessing of Jehovah, Possess thou the west and the south", Deuteronomy 33:23.

J.T. That is good. Certainly we cannot say anything against that; the West and the South.

A.P.A. Is the South illustrated in the eunuch? It says, He saw Philip no longer, for he went on his way rejoicing.

J.T. Just so; he was from Africa, of course; and we shall see presently in chapter 18, the brother Apollos, who came from Alexandria, from Africa too. It was an independent movement, I should say, of the Spirit.

A.P.A. I was thinking of him as over against the thought of what was metropolitan in Jerusalem. He had Jesus before him, had he not, as preached to him; "he went on his way rejoicing". Acts 8:39. Is there sufficient in that?

J.T. Yes, but he needed to be adjusted, which is important. Paul's converts did not need to be adjusted. Even Philip's converts needed to be adjusted. I do not mean Philip, the apostle, but Philip the evangelist. His converts did not get the Spirit at once. There is something there to note, and to show the importance of Paul's

ministry. It is in that where you get the real current, the reliable current of the Spirit of God.

A.B. Matthew's gospel says "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations". Matthew 28:19. Is not that interpreted to include the East? Missionary enthusiasm fixed upon that verse.

J.T. Well, but that is not all. The principle of levitical service comes in after that; that is, you have to go where you are told. The missionary has to go where he is told to go, and so it is that Paul was controlled. He did not go where he wished to go; he had to go where he was sent.

So in Luke 24:47, they are told "that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name to all the nations beginning at Jerusalem". But that is subject to development, and therefore Paul has to be awaited. The ministry went on under the twelve, of course, and they were blessed, but it all awaited Paul, and so the Lord appeared to Paul and said, "Why persecutest thou me"? Acts 22:7. He disclosed to Paul in those words the idea of the assembly. "Why dost thou persecute me"? Acts 9:4 As to fact the assembly was being persecuted. Later the Lord says of Paul, he "is an elect vessel to me, to bear my name before both nations and kings and the sons of Israel". Acts 9:15. We are told where he was sent.

Ques. Is not Matthew 28:19 yet future?

J.T. Well, possibly; I believe it will be. The Lord, for instance, in Matthew, directs the disciples not to go in the way of the gentiles at all. That is a principle that probably will be fulfilled later on.

W.S.S. Paul was sent to the nations, and he said he preached "among the nations", and yet his service was, as shown in Acts 16, definitely limited and directed. There was a general commission to preach, but there were certain limitations in fulfilling it.

J.T. Yes. Therefore, what are we to do, but to abide by the written page, and be instructed? This man of

Macedonia is beckoning to Paul, "Pass over into Macedonia and help us", Acts 16:9. That call was not from Asia, but from Europe. From this Paul concluded, which is the right thing for us too; to conclude, and to decide on certain conduct or practice from certain commandments or facts. "Concluding that the Lord had called us to announce to them the glad tidings. Having sailed therefore away from Troas, we went in a straight course to Samothracia, and on the morrow to Neapolis, and thence to Philippi, which is the first city of that part of Macedonia, a colony. And we were staying in that city certain days. And on the sabbath day we went outside the gate by the river, where it was the custom for prayer to be, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had assembled. And a certain woman, by name Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, who worshipped God, heard; whose heart the Lord opened to attend to the things spoken by Paul". Acts 16:9 - 14. This raises a very interesting inquiry as to why the apostle should come to Philippi and find only women, and one of them from the East, too, from Thyatira. The suggestion, I think, is that the Spirit of God intended to bring out the thought of the assembly in these movements, because Lydia is an apt representation of the assembly in its feminine character. She is there, characteristically, of the assembly.

E.C.L. Are you referring to the fact that her heart was opened to hear the word of Paul?

J.T. Quite so; it is remarkable that it was opened to the truth of what Paul had to give, which is another confirmation of our thought as to Paul, "to attend to the things spoken by Paul". Acts 16:14.

W.S.S. Which is all the more significant if we think of Lydia as characteristic of the assembly.

J.T. That is what I was thinking, exactly; it is very much like Phoebe, another sister, further to the West.

A.P.A. Does she correspond with Rebecca, receiving the ministry?

J.T. That is the idea, I would say. There are certain persons found throughout Scripture to represent or be exemplary of the truth in each particular section. Rebecca was there to represent the truth in that section of scripture, and Lydia, I believe, is at Philippi, to exemplify the truth there. That was a great thing for Paul; here is a sister ready for him, and she opens her house to him too, which is another matter. She was very like Rebecca.

J.D. It says of Lydia, "whose heart the Lord opened", Acts 16:14, and she speaks of being "faithful to the Lord". Acts 16:15. Paul had previously concluded "that the Lord had called us" Acts 16:10, to announce the glad tidings.

J.T. Well, I think it represents the principle of the Lord's authority as expressed in the baptism that comes in. Peter in chapter 10 commands that they should be "baptised in the name of the Lord". Acts 10:48, I think it is just to bring out the authority of the Lord in baptism, because the Lord, as we shall see in chapter 18, appeared to Paul and said that he was not to be afraid, that no one would injure him; meaning that he was under the Lord's protection. Baptism brings us under the Lord's protection. "The name of Jehovah is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe", Proverbs 18:10. I believe that is what is in mind in this section, that we are branching out among the gentiles, but that the Lord is saying, I will protect you. He is saying that to Paul. "No one shall set upon thee to injure thee", Acts 18:10, He says.

The truth is developed at Corinth. We have to pass over Thessalonica, and what is said about the jailor, the earthquake and so forth. All these enter into our subject, also Paul's speech at Athens. This is to show how the Athenian idea is exposed; how the gospel prevails over it. Whatever the Greek idea of speech and the like, as found in the classics, may be, it amounts to very little; the

gospel prevails over all. I believe that is what comes out in these chapters. The Roman system, I suppose, is typically overthrown in the earthquake at Philippi.

Luke says, "after these things, having left Athens, he came to Corinth; and finding a certain Jew by name Aquila, of Pontus by race, just come from Italy, and Priscilla his wife, (because Claudius had ordered all the Jews to leave Rome,) came to them, and because they were of the same trade abode with them, and wrought. For they were tent-makers by trade". Acts 18:1 - 3. Paul is not aspiring to anything distinguished or great, anything that would lead up to Rome or its pretensions, but the very opposite. He is a tent-maker, and he is dwelling in the same house as two other trades-people, and that is to bring out, I am sure, the littleness, the humility and the unpretentiousness that is proper to christians.

W.S.S. These are foundational matters in relation to the assembly.

J.T. That is what I would say, in relation to the Pauline assembly; first, how it reached Corinth and then how it reached Ephesus. We will have to look into Ephesus perhaps somewhere else, but the point today is Corinth, representing the public assembly into which the order of God enters. The address to Corinth is to "the assembly of God which is in Corinth", "with all that in every place call on the name of our Lord", "both theirs and ours". 1 Corinthians 1:2. The Lord is theirs and ours, it is the universal thought. To the assembly in London, or in New York, or Sydney, there is the same Lord; one Lord; and Paul says as to his directions, "thus I ordain in all the assemblies". 1 Corinthians 7:17.

A.P.A. Is there some significance in the fact that a man and his wife are introduced at the beginning of this subject?

J.T. There is; a man and his wife who have to be considered later on. Paul never lost sight of them; they were a remarkable pair. Priscilla is mentioned first three

times, and Aquila is mentioned first three times, six times they are mentioned together, showing that, of the man and his wife, one is as important as the other, you might say. It shows us what can be; how that sisters need not complain because they are sisters and they have not the same means of serving as men, but Aquila and Priscilla served one as well as the other. They "staked their own neck", Romans 16:4, we are told.

Ques. Would you say that the sisters could take part in levitical service?

J.T. Well, I think so; and we might remark here as to the word Levite, that it is somewhat unduly used in its typical character. I believe it is wiser to get to the anti-typical name or thing that is meant, the anti-typical meaning of the word Levite. A Levite is a person who works hard, has hard work to do, and it might be a woman or a man: the word applies to both of us. To each one of us has been given grace "according to the measure of the gift of the Christ". Ephesians 4:7. Every one of us has some grace to serve. Then there are special gifts, such as apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds and teachers; these are all specific, and they do not include sisters, although we are told also that sisters prophesy. There were four daughters of Philip the evangelist who prophesied, and that is a matter for sisters to think of at the present time; and why there is no such thing now. There must be something wrong, I would say.

Rem. They are not allowed to speak in the assembly.

J.T. Well, that is right, but they can say much that is good without speaking in the assembly; Lydia did.

We ought now to look at what is said in chapter 18, after Paul left Ephesus. It says "and finding a certain Jew by name Aquila, of Pontus", Acts 18:2, and then of the Jews at Corinth verse 6 says: "But as they opposed and spoke injuriously, he shook his clothes, and said to them, Your blood be upon your own head: I am pure; from henceforth

I will go to the nations". Acts 18:6. Notice this, he is definitely going to the nations now. The brethren might compare this verse 6 with the last chapter of the book of Acts, where Paul is in Rome. The Jews disagreed, as to his testimony, "went away", Paul having said "Be it known to you therefore, that this salvation of God has been sent to the nations; they also will hear it". Acts 28:28. Here in Acts 18:6, he just says, "I will go to the nations. And departing thence he came to the house of a certain man, by name Justus, who worshipped God, whose house adjoined the synagogue".

Now there is a word in Acts 18:5 we must go back to. Luke says, "when both Silas and Timotheus came down from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in respect of the word". Why is he pressed about it? Because Timotheus and Silas have come down; that is, the men who were specially fitted of the Lord to be associated with Paul in this great work. Paul is now free because they have come, showing that persons are important in the service of God. If they are absent there is not liberty, and if they are present you have liberty. Certain persons have liberty granted them of God, and they are not only able to speak themselves but they afford liberty to others. The presence of spiritual brethren affords liberty to all that are present.

W.S.S. It is wonderful what additional wealth becomes available as the brethren come together in this way, and there are spiritual persons present. The result is that those who are serving are greatly supported.

J.T. What has been remarked I am sure is right, as to the presence of certain brethren, not to speak of places. If you get all the saints in a representative way together in certain places you have something that affords liberty for the bringing out of the truth. Not that I would say anything particular of any set of brethren, but there are places where the Spirit has wrought in a peculiar way, and we must observe that.

C.O.B. That would bring in an atmosphere.

J.T. It always does. You can bring out things much more under those circumstances than you can ordinarily; the best things come out because of the presence of certain brothers.

W.S.S. It may be helpful in this connection to recall a remark of yours in conversation in regard to the answering of questions, which you said could be more easily done as we are together in this way, than when we are in our houses.

J.T. Quite so; I have often thought of that in your house and other houses. If a brother asks a question, I often say I would rather you asked that question in the assembly, because there is more power, where the assembly is characteristically.

R.B. Is that illustrated in Acts 13 where you have certain persons of quality named and when the Spirit is free to speak Himself?

J.T. Very good. In Acts 13 you say; and also in Acts 20; that is where Paul comes down to Troas, and in Acts 20:7 we are told, that Paul "prolonged the discourse till midnight"; he spoke at length, and then we are told that "there were many lights in the upper room where we were assembled". Acts 20:8 We have to keep our eyes open for metaphors in the scriptures as elsewhere: lights here would mean the presence of certain persons who have light, like the sun and the moon and the stars. That is the idea of lights; "the Father of lights", James 1:17, we read of. These would refer to spiritual lights.

Well then, in order to make all that clear, in verse 4, referring to Paul himself, "there accompanied him as far as Asia, Sopater son of Pyrrhus, a Berean" (this is the first brother from Berea); "and of Thessalonians, Aristarchus and Secundus" (these are two other brothers), "and Gaius and Timotheus of Derbe" (two others); "and of Asia, Tychicus and Trophimus". Acts 20:4. Well now, these are the lights that were there, and they

accompanied Paul in truth; they were the fruit of his ministry; the towns mentioned show that; and they were themselves in the system of ministry. Even if they did not minister, their presence gave liberty to the minister, and hence the long discourse would be greatly augmented by the presence of these lights. You may say, Well, why did Eutychus fall down? That is another matter; that is to his discredit. In the presence of such a light a young brother falling asleep is serious: it shows he is in a poor state, because we should be ready and on the alert with such great lights as these in our presence.

Ques. Does the presence of such persons have a specific bearing on the testimony on the one hand, and the opposition becomes clearer on the other?

J.T. Very good; you are referring to the Opposition in chapter 18, verses 5 and 6? There is opportunity for us to think more, and get more light as to the whole position of the assembly and where we are now as to it.

A.P.A. What you have been saying as to all this that helps the ministry forward is to be found in each one of our localities, however small.

J.T. Just so; if it is not, there is no assembly there at all, because if the assembly is there these things are there, and the warrant for that is that Paul says to the Corinthians, "Purge out the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, according as ye are unleavened", 1 Corinthians 5:7. Now that is remarkable; the basic thought is there in the abstract sense; and if it is not there, there is no assembly at all.

W.B.T. Does liberty when we are together, flow from the recognition of the temple of God?

J.T. Well, that was really what was in mind; it is what Corinthians teaches: "Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you"? 1 Corinthians 3:16.

Rem. The saints gathering together locally is important,

and that they should all find an interest in these local gatherings.

J.T. Make the most of them, I would say. Make the most of the gifts, too, even if they are not there, but also make the most of what is local.

THE ASSEMBLY (3)

Acts 19:1 - 20; Acts 20:17 - 28

J.T. What has been in mind in the two previous readings is to reach the full level of the assembly as presented to us in the book of Acts, and it is thought that we should look at Ephesus at this time.

The intent primarily in this inquiry is to show that, while the assembly as a whole had a local position, a metropolitan position indeed, in Jerusalem, ultimately it spread out so that in chapter 9 the plural "assemblies" was used designating it. In chapter 2 where the position was established primarily as the Spirit came in, the word assembly is not in the original, but the idea of being together is there and is stressed. Later the assemblies in Judaea are referred to as being comforted by the Holy Spirit; this was after Paul's conversion. Paul having come in, the light that was intended to shine through him came into evidence, and so the assemblies are alluded to. It is doubted by some whether the plural should be used in chapter 9, but it is used and understood to be in the original; but Jerusalem retained its place as a metropolitan centre for the assembly up to chapter 12 and even later.

As Paul and Barnabas were sent out according to chapter 13, the assembly in its local constitution came into evidence through the action of the Holy Spirit; henceforward local assemblies came into evidence, the thought becoming prevalent. Then for the first time we have elders chosen by Barnabas and Paul. This indicated that the local position was established, and was to be maintained in a governmental way; that is, through elders. In pursuing this, certain cleavages occurred, not only such as in chapter 6 in relation to the distribution of food; that is, diaconal work, but between

Barnabas and Saul a cleavage took place which led to more definiteness in the local position, leading up to Corinth where the local assembly is definitely and fully in mind; the epistles to Corinth clearly establish the thought. "The assembly of God which is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all that in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both theirs and ours"; 1 Corinthians 1:2. So the local position is clearly established and has continued since; having been revived in a special way of late years through ministry from the Lord. It is thought that, as we have touched on Corinth in that light, we might now look at Ephesus so as to see how Paul's ministry develops the truth of the assembly.

M.C. Why do you think that the metropolitan position was retained in Jerusalem since it was not the mind of God?

J.T. Well, it was at first. God evidently thought it wise to bring in an impressive effect of the work of the Spirit, and so a great number were converted at Pentecost. It was evidently wisdom on God's part to work in a powerful and public way, with a view to forming the assembly. But it certainly was not His thought that it should continue, because the position under Paul has become characterised by local assemblies, all in communion with each other, in unity.

H.P.W. Why do you think the first question Paul raised as having found certain disciples was, "Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye had believed"? Acts 19:2.

J.T. That is the key to what is before us. Paul in stressing the idea of persons having the Spirit, clearly indicates that the non-possession of the Spirit disqualifies for the assembly. I should be glad to hear what you and the brethren here have to say in view of the local position.

H.P.W. I should like to know, because it is not a light thing to be a disciple. Yet it does not seem necessarily to supply what is needed for the position of the assembly. I

trust we are all in some measure disciples, but it is a healthy inquiry to make as to our conscious reception of the Holy Spirit.

J.T. I believe that is what should come up now. As to the persons its says, "certain disciples". "It came to pass, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul, having passed through the upper districts, came to Ephesus, and finding certain disciples, he said to them, Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye had believed"? Acts 19:1,2. It seems that it should be a matter of inquiry at all times among us in all places. It is not simply that we are professedly christians in the ordinary sense of the word, but the question is whether we have the Spirit. The fact that there are twelve men is not to be ignored, because it would point to an administrative position resulting from the reception of the Holy Spirit. The administrative side should be taken care of, for it is essential to the full establishment of the assembly in any place.

E.F. Would the way he speaks of this in the epistle to the Ephesians have a bearing on what you are saying? "In whom also, having believed, ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise", Ephesians 1:13.

J.T. That is an allusion to what is here, not simply that they were disciples, but they were sealed. There are three things said of the Holy Spirit in relation to the saints in Corinth. He is the anointing, the sealing, and the earnest: 2 Corinthians 1:21,22.

A.C. Would it be a matter of inquiry as well as discernment?

J.T. I think it should be, for it should be known whether the young people have the Spirit. Many of them move towards the position of discipleship following others, but wanting in the needed conviction and confession of sin, and hence not having the Spirit.

A.L. We are in a different position today from those in Acts 19:2; these said, "We did not even hear if the Holy Spirit was come".

J.T. It is well known among us, you mean.

A.M. It seems as if it should be part of the normal consciousness of a believer; "ye know him", John 14:17.

J.T. Quite so. "He abides with you, and shall be in you". John 14:17.

Ques. Do you think one has to distinguish between the person having the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit being there ungrieved? It is normal for a believer to have the Holy Spirit.

J.T. It is.

C.B. He does not consciously merge in the assembly unless he has the Spirit.

J.T. Quite so.

F.W.O. Do we not want to get first the basis on which He is received? These people were believers, but the question was believing in what? "Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye had believed?" Acts 19:2, and then Paul alludes to the Lord as a Person on whom they should believe. Is that not going beyond what they already believed? What is a basis for the reception of the Holy Spirit?

J.T. We are told in chapter 5 that He was given to those who obeyed God. But then there is another side; that is, of asking. The Spirit may be given according to Luke 11:13, on the principle of asking. "How much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him"?

H.P.W. Is it linked with being baptised to the name of the Lord Jesus, which involves obedience? You could hardly ask unless you were livingly subject to the Lord Jesus; it would be mockery.

J.T. But then livingly subject is a large expression.

H.P.W. Is not the Spirit our living link with the Lord Jesus?

J.T. That would be true, I am sure. New birth ever must precede it, and the reception of the truth of redemption too, but still the Lord does say, as quoted

from Luke 11, that the Father who is of heaven may "give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him". Luke 11:13. Another thing that comes out in that chapter is that "he was casting out a demon, and it was dumb; and it came to pass, the demon being gone out, the dumb man spoke. And the crowds wondered", Luke 11:14. That passage comes in immediately after the Lord's word as to asking for the Holy Spirit, and it brings out the need for the casting out of any demons. The dumb man spoke; the idea of speaking is connected with priesthood. The thirteenth verse shows the power to dispossess the demon or whatever would hinder souls speaking in liberty in the assembly. The idea of speaking is seen pre-eminently in the saints. The young man who was raised up in Nain began to speak. This would point to the need of young people being intelligent as to the Spirit, and to the fact that they are to speak, to use their voices in the assembly. We should soon find out whether they are intelligent if they used their voices, even in meetings such as these to speak to the brethren.

C.G. Is not the Lord's word in Luke 11:13, calculated to engender confidence in the soul with God, so that we turn to Him for something that we need and He gives us the Holy Spirit as that which alone can meet our need.

J.T. He gives the Spirit to those who ask; the need is expressed and satisfied. Who has made man's mouth? Is it being used? The assembly is supremely the place where it should be used. We have other scriptures that would restrict the speaking to men, but at the same time the idea is, that the voice is used.

A.M. It says of those men in Acts 19:6: "they spoke with tongues and prophesied" at once.

G.C.G. Are you connecting this matter of right speaking with the possession of the Spirit, as evidence that the Spirit is possessed by the believer?

J.T. That is how it stands. In Luke 11:14, the Lord

is casting out a demon, and we are to understand how it is done, and how the power of speech is restored.

C.B. Is it done by giving the Holy Spirit?

J.T. I am not saying that there is a demon involved in the non-possession of the Spirit, but the Lord is seen doing the thing, and the fact is that the man spoke. That is the idea. The young man who was raised from the dead began to speak; the priestly thought is brought in.

A.G.H. In Acts 2:4, they "began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave to them to speak forth".

J.T. Quite so. It must be a great matter with God. His greatest master-piece is the human voice, the human power of speech. Now through redemption the Holy Spirit comes in, and the voice can be used so that the service of God can be carried on.

B.O.W. Jeremiah says, "I cannot speak; for I am a child", Jeremiah 1:6, and God does not like that.

H.P.W. Man according to God's thought is thus rescued out of the grip of Satan. This man was dumb, but now he is able to speak, and speak acceptably, and then if you get a collection of people like that, twelve of them, you have something to work on.

J.T. That is exactly the thought, because the administrative idea must come in. So in Mark 7:32 - 34, they bring to the Lord "a deaf man who could not speak right, and they beseech him that he might lay his hand on him. And having taken him away from the crowd apart, he put his fingers to his ears; and having spit, he touched his tongue; and looking up to heaven he groaned, and says to him, Ephphatha; that is, Be opened". The Lord's actions were most striking; "And immediately his ears were opened, and the band of his tongue was loosed and he spoke right". Mark 7:35. This is remarkable, because it says, "they were astonished above measure, saying, He does all things well; he makes both the deaf to hear, and the speechless to speak". Mark 7:37. I think all that is most significant as to our point at this time. Paul says to these men, "To

what then were ye baptised? And they said, To the baptism of John. And Paul said, John indeed baptised with the baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on him that was coming after him, that is, on Jesus. And when they heard that, they were baptised to the name of the Lord Jesus". Acts 19:3 - 5. Someone might say, They believe and as soon as they believe they get the Spirit. The Scripture says "when they heard that, they were baptised to the name of the Lord Jesus", Acts 19:5 but facts show that persons did not always get the Spirit on believing. Here it says "Paul having laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied". Acts 19:6.

Jno.T. It says in Acts 10 that the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius and the company there while Peter was speaking.

J.T. That shows how divine Persons are free and we cannot impose anything on them. Here Paul's touch is needed and in Acts 10 Peter's word was needed; in each case it was a question of the Spirit. The Spirit fell on them; it is an energetic action, the same kind of action that marked the prodigal's father in Luke 15.

Jno.T. What answers to the laying on of hands today?

J.T. We have to go by Scripture. The laying on of hands was necessary in the beginning of christianity; it was necessary to establish the apostolic authority. We are now at the summit of Paul's teaching, but at the same time the most elementary part of it is involved in this chapter. These men had not the Spirit and did not even know about Him, but the question for us is whether we are taking care of the young in this matter, and if they are coming into divine things such as the apostolic teaching requires.

M.C. At Corinth the apostle told them that no man could call Jesus Lord, but by the Holy Spirit. Would their confession have to do with that?

J.T. Quite so. They could not do it without the

Spirit; the Spirit must be there before they can confess Jesus as Lord.

K.S. Where a full gospel is preached would it be normal for a person to receive the Spirit?

J.T. The full gospel is preached here. "John indeed baptised with the baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on him that was coming after him, that is, on Jesus. And when they heard that, they were baptised to the name of the Lord Jesus". Acts 19:4. So far so good, but the Spirit did not come then, although they believed what Paul said. It is remarkable that in the epistle it says, "in whom also, having believed", not as you believe, but "having believed, ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the earnest of our inheritance to the redemption of the acquired possession to the praise of his glory", Ephesians 1:13,14.

J.P. Would these disciples be in the good of redemption?

J.T. Apparently not at first. Paul gave them the light of redemption and yet they did not get the Spirit. Philip went down to Samaria and preached Christ, yet they did not get the Spirit, and there were a great number of people.

H.P.W. Are you making something of the fact that Paul laid his hands on these men? Is there something implied in Paul's committing himself to them?

J.T. I feel it is important that people should observe the text of Scripture more accurately.

G.C.G. This seems a vital matter, what is suggested in Paul laying his hands upon them. Does it bring in apostolic authority, and as submitting to it, is the whole range of what the Lord has established here for us to enter into?

J.T. Quite so. That would be the idea in the laying on of hands. I find that on this subject the Scriptures are not observed, people slur over Scripture to reach a certain idea they already have.

C.E.S.W. Paul himself received the Spirit after he had believed.

J.T. Quite so.

M.C. Is not Cornelius an outstanding example? A godly man to whom God sent the angel, and yet he had not received the Spirit.

J.T. He did not get the Spirit until Peter preached; then he received the Spirit before Peter's preaching had stopped. The Holy Spirit acts of Himself, because He knows the state we are in. That is probably a difficulty amongst us, that the state is not dealt with.

A.H.F. Those to whom the apostle spoke in Acts 19 bowed to him immediately and were baptised to the name of the Lord Jesus. I was wondering if he could commit himself to that.

J.T. That is not always understood, because Cornelius' case is the opposite to this. The Spirit came of Himself without any laying on of hands or confession.

F.W.O. Cornelius and these people were marked by a truly subject attitude, and is that the commencement for us? You spoke of obedience to God as the basis on which the Spirit was come.

J.T. Yes. "Those that obey him". Acts 5:32.

F.W.O. A subject spirit would accept what He says, and would go along with it. There is so much that God has said that should be done, but is the first thing that we are subject to Christ as our Lord in heaven?

J.T. That is true, but not all, there is the necessity for confession in some cases, and the laying on of hands in other cases.

M.C. Is it not important what you have said, that God takes account of our state, because the Spirit was very free with Cornelius and his company, but there was a state there commendable to God?

J.T. Undoubtedly they would take in what Peter said, but then Cornelius had established a memorial in heaven already. Think of that! Yet he had not the Spirit.

A.L. So it is possible for disciples to be in a city, such as Ephesus, and yet not be assembly men.

J.T. They were not assembly men because they had not the Spirit.

C.G. Can you help us a little as to what corresponds to the laying on of hands?

J.T. If it is there at the beginning, it is a principle to abide by. We have a large number of people converted through Philip and yet they did not get the Spirit. In chapter 8 Peter and John came down and prayed for them and they got the Spirit.

A.H.F. The Holy Spirit took on what the apostle did because as soon as Paul laid his hands upon them the Holy Spirit came upon them.

J.T. "Paul having laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them", Acts 19:6. You said as soon as, but you cannot be sure of that. In the epistle it says "after that ye believed", Ephesians 1:13, that is important.

Jno.T. You seem to indicate that state has great place in the receiving of the Spirit.

J.T. We are dealing with the whole realm of divine operations and we are bound to pay attention to the primary thought of it in the Scriptures. The Spirit is come, redemption having been accomplished, but it cannot be said that His reception is automatic. I would lay that down as a fact, that should be observed. The gift of the Spirit is a definite action, but not automatic. It is a question of what divine Persons will do.

R.L. In John 3 the Spirit is likened to the wind.

J.T. Quite so. "The wind blows where it will, and thou hearest its voice, but knowest not whence it comes and where it goes; thus is every one that is born of the Spirit". John 3:8. That would apply to the coming of the Spirit too. You cannot say when it will come, it is a question of God's rights.

H.P.W. You laid much stress on the thought of asking. Does the Spirit come by way of deep exercise and desire?

J.T. The Lord is very simple in His remarks in Luke 11:1: "as he was in a certain place praying, when he ceased, one of his disciples said to him, Lord, teach us to pray, even as John also taught his disciples"; and then He tells them how to pray and the passage runs on to what I have read already in verse 13. Great stress is on asking. "Who among you shall have a friend, and shall go to him at midnight and say to him, Friend, let me have three loaves, since a friend of mine on a journey is come to me, and I have nothing to set before him; and he within answering should say, Do not disturb me; the door is already shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise up to give it thee? -- I say to you, Although he will not get up and give them to him because he is his friend, because of his shamelessness, at any rate, he will rise and give him as many as he wants", Luke 11:5 - 8.

H.P.W. It is a question of deep appeal, but then, on God's part, His disposition is entirely toward giving, so that there is no hindrance on God's side, but there may be lack of state and desire on mine.

J.T. That is so, providing you make due allowance for what pleasure God may have in the thing being asked for.

H.P.W. Perhaps we do not realise fully what the activity of the Spirit would really set us up in; the blessedness of it. If we would but ask!

J.T. That is important. Young people should learn to ask as feeling the need of the Spirit.

H.P.W. Ask, seek and knock.

E.C.T. We should see something more living as a result; those who received the Spirit spoke with tongues and prophesied, Acts 19.

A.C. It is very much a normal request of a child to its father, but are we in danger of admitting any who have not the Spirit?

J.T. Persons may be assuming to belong to the assembly and yet they do not really, because they have not the Holy Spirit.

B.O.W. Simon is said to have believed under Philip's preaching, but Peter discerned that he was false, although he was spoken of as believing.

J.T. Quite so. "Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter", Acts 8:21.

K. S. If the person is not conscious of having asked for the Spirit, would you challenge as to whether the Spirit has been received?

J.T. No. God can give the Spirit without your asking, and He does. You know the Spirit is there, when He has been given.

C.G. Do you think there should be the sense in the soul of having received something from God?

J.T. He is a divine Person and there should be some effect in the soul. The soul himself and everyone else would be conscious of it.

M.C. Persons coming among us would make valuable assets in the assembly if this was always true of them.

J.T. Just so.

A.H.F. Referring to the example in Mark 7:32 - 35, which you gave of the Lord Jesus causing the man to sneak right, would it be that the Holy Spirit is given for that purpose?

J.T. I would say so. What remarkable exercise the Lord went through in that chapter as He looked up to heaven and groaned. This indicates His deep feeling as to this man who could not speak right, and it would indicate His feeling as to those who neglect the Spirit.

Ques. "If any one has not the Spirit of Christ he is not of him", Romans 8:9. Does that mean he is not in the good of redemption?

J.T. It means more than that. He has neither part nor lot in the matter. My impression is that we should be more real about these fundamental matters, and believe the Scriptures.

Ques. Are these remarks in Acts 19 fundamental to what is in mind?

J.T. They are establishing for persons who are instructed in some sense in the truth. Apollos came in earlier. He was John's disciple too, but there is nothing said about his not having the Spirit. It is clear that Paul had in mind the great position which should arise at Ephesus involving the great administrative thought, as indicated in the number twelve. The Lord going up into heaven and sending down the Spirit should affect every member of the assembly. So we are told that "all the men were about twelve", Acts 19:7, the fundamental side of the great assembly being secured. Then it is said, "And entering into the synagogue, he spoke boldly during three months, reasoning and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. But when some were hardened and disbelieved, speaking evil of the way before the multitude, he left them and separated the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus. And this took place for two years, so that all that inhabited Asia heard the word of the Lord, both Jews and Greeks. And God wrought no ordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that even napkins or aprons were brought from his body and put upon the sick, and the diseases left them, and the wicked spirits went out", Acts 19:8 - 12.

Now what I think the brethren should notice is the necessity for this school of Tyrannus after the matter of the twelve disciples getting the Spirit. There is the need of fundamental work in a definite way, so that the truth is forced into people by teaching.

B.O.W. Tyrannus would be a forceful man who would force his thoughts into his pupils.

J.T. Yes. It does not actually say that he was a teacher, but it was his school, and it is mentioned to show that the truth is to be insisted on.

E.F. Is this teaching particularly in reference to a local company?

J.T. It is a local position here because the elders are spoken of. Paul calls for them later. "From Miletus

having sent to Ephesus, he called over to him the elders of the assembly. And when they were come to him, he said to them, Ye know how I was with you", Acts 20:17,18. He insists on the way he taught them.

E.F. There is the thought of general teaching, but is there to be this forceful teaching in the local assembly as well?

J.T. We are to take example from Paul. He is three years in Ephesus and what he says would show how careful and thorough is his teaching there.

A.L. What would the reasoning daily mean?

J.T. It would show it was a daily matter; that is important too, because the Bereans searched the Scriptures daily. We work on the weekly basis, and I think it is right, but daily is the most effective.

A.M. The Lord's teaching in Luke 11 is full of remarkable severity at times.

J.T. Quite so.

A.C. What is fundamental is most important for what follows.

J.T. A great deal enters into this section because it really includes the incident in Troas which we often speak of in relation to the Lord's supper. Paul stresses here the point of severe teaching, exact teaching, confirming the truth in persons who form the assembly. So he calls for the elders. Evidently there were a good many of them, because they represent the government of the local assembly, and they would insist on the truth, as we would learn from Titus and Timotheus, they would insist on the truth being maintained amongst the brethren.

M.C. Do we not see how they had been affected by Paul's teaching, and how he had impressed them?

J.T. I am thankful you brought that in now because we have only a few minutes left to talk about love, and this is a love chapter. The Lord's supper and the raising of Eutychus are related in it; so we are in the environment of the truth at its height.

H.M.A. So we not only need the truth, but to hold it in love.

J.T. We are dealing now with things that are hard to be understood by some here, and it is well to see that we are applying ourselves to understand them.

Ques. Do the extraordinary miracles referred to show how God is approving the ministry?

J.T. Even napkins brought from his body effected cures.

F.S. Would you encourage us to make way for teachers in our local gatherings, and teaching from house to house?

J.T. Yes, and in our houses too, I would say. Paul greatly stressed the household.

H.P.W. So that in writing to Timothy he says, "Occupy thyself with these things; be wholly in them", 1 Timothy 4:15.

J.T. The beautiful treatment of Eutychus by Paul is undoubtedly brought in here to point to the need there is now in other cases. There were many lights in the upper chamber, in fact we are told about seven men who were the subjects of Pauline work and who were present at Troas at that time. The statement that "there were many lights in the upper room", Acts 20:8, no doubt referred to these men who were mentioned in verse 4; they were the fruits of Paul's labours. Then "a certain youth, by name Eutychus, sitting at the window-opening, overpowered by deep sleep, while Paul discoursed very much at length, having been overpowered by the sleep, fell from the third story down to the bottom, and was taken up dead", Acts 20:9. Now we have Paul's tender consideration for youth brought out. "Paul descending, fell upon him, and enfolding him in his arms, said, Be not troubled, for his life is in him. And having gone up, and having broken the bread, and eaten, and having long spoken until daybreak, so he went away. And they brought away the boy alive, and were no little comforted". Acts 20:10 - 12. It shows

how the recovery of Eutychus was the point with Paul. The youth are in mind.

H.P.W. He had a great discernment; "his life is in him", Acts 20:10, he said. We are perhaps a bit backward in committing ourselves to some people; we may let them go on their way, and we give up because we think everything is lost, but to be able to discern that life is still in him is a great matter.

M.C. Would you call this a labour of love?

J.T. Yes, he enfolded him in his arms. No doubt warmth was needed, and the strength of the arms of affection.

A.C. The continuance of things depends on the youth -- Paul would have that in mind.

J.T. And the brethren are to understand what it was to have him brought back; he was but a boy.

Now, the position of the elders is a matter that we should attend to. We are alluding to eldership as chosen by Paul and Silas in their first missionary service in chapter 14; they chose elders in each assembly. The general character of assemblies is maintained, each assembly having the means in it of carrying on according to the fundamental basis. That is, a continuation of what was set up at Pentecost required the added thought of eldership. The care of the bodies of the saints is provided for in chapter 6 in the appointment of the seven deacons, but elders are a further thought. They were chosen by Paul and Barnabas and now here at Ephesus there are a goodly number, and the whole position is put on them. The responsibility is stressed. He says to them, "Ye know how I was with you all the time from the first day that I arrived in Asia, serving the Lord with all lowliness, and tears, and temptations, which happened to me through the plots of the Jews; how I held back nothing of what is profitable, so as not to announce it to you, and to teach you publicly and in every house, testifying to both Jews and Greeks repentance towards God, and faith towards

our Lord Jesus Christ", Acts 20:18 - 21. We should notice that particularly. He then says, "now, behold, bound in my spirit I go to Jerusalem, not knowing what things shall happen to me in it". Acts 20:22. Having said all this, he charges them, "Wherefore I witness to you this day, that I am clean from the blood of all, for I have not shrunk from announcing to you all the counsel of God", Acts 20:26,27. I feel it is important to run on to that, so that we may see the extent and the fulness of his testimony there, in view of the assembly being properly founded. "Take heed therefore to yourselves, and to all the flock, wherein the Holy Spirit has set you as overseers, to shepherd the assembly of God, which he has purchased with the blood of his own". Acts 20:28. That is a very touching allusion to the Father's love for His Son; He has purchased the assembly with the blood of His own.

A.L. This is the charge of Paul himself to the elders of Ephesus as he was about to leave this scene. In Acts 1 the Lord charged the apostles whom He had chosen.

Jno.T. He links up the service of overseers with shepherding.

J.T. That would be their office. Elders because of age or experience, but overseer was another thought.

A.C. He would indicate the value of the assembly in saying, "purchased with the blood of his own". Acts 20:28. It is of great value to God.

M.C. If we had that in mind it would help us as to how we serve the saints. We should think of what they cost God and Christ.

H.P.W. The stability of the assembly is essential in the mind of God in view of His service and testimony, and we should be exercised that we are brought into these things fundamentally, so that we may constitute material on which the Spirit of God can continue to work, and which He can use.

COMPLETENESS

COLOSSIANS 1:25,26; Colossians 2:9,10; Colossians 4:12

I am thinking, dear brethren of completeness. It is a characteristic word of the epistle to the Colossians, and, as I hope to show, ought to be a characteristic word with all of us, as standing "perfect and complete in all the will of God", Colossians 4:12. The first item is "the word of God", verse 25. The apostle speaks of being made a "minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given me towards you to complete the word of God, the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but has now been made manifest to his saints". Colossians 1:25,26. I am speaking now of the word of God being completed, a part of the three-fold thought that is in mind involving the word completeness; the first being the word of God. It is being attacked, of course, by infidels, distorted and attacked in various ways; in the schools, the colleges, and in the workshops; in the drawing-rooms, and in the churches, so-called, alas! Where the word of God should be conserved, revered, and supported in every way, it is being attacked and discredited by the leading theologians of the moment. Satan understands how the youth and the ordinary man and woman are exposed and likely to fall under the influence of the anti-christian error abroad.

I venture to bring forward the word of God. I am not now speaking of the Scriptures; of course, they are included. What Paul is speaking about is the word of God; its living character as spoken. The Scriptures, of course, are of supreme value, only the word of God here is the mystery, which men ordinarily know nothing of, whereas lovers of God and lovers of Christ make much of the mystery. Hence the apostle here speaks of the mystery "which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but has now been made manifest to his saints", Colossians 1:26.

The mystery is in mind. Paul is saying that the completion of the word of God was his matter, given to him, and that it involved the mystery; for the apostles, although they were employed as writers of the inspired page, did not all write about the mystery. They did not understand it themselves. It was revealed to Paul and, involves ourselves, dear brethren. I am free to say that, because we ourselves, our very selves are involved in the term, "the mystery". It is "the word of God", but the mystery. It is a question of the assembly and we are interested. So in our reading meetings week by week we have in our minds that there is something wonderful belonging to us, written for us; something that God Himself had concealed for centuries; yea, until Paul; and it is now disclosed to the saints, to the holy apostles and prophets too particularly, but "to his saints", according to this passage: "the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but has now been made manifest to his saints", Colossians 1:26. So we have opened up to us personally one of the greatest things; and the question is whether we are really interested. It is one of the greatest things belonging to ourselves, not belonging to Israel or the nations, or men in general, but to ourselves; that is, to those of us who form the assembly.

I would seek to enlist the sympathy and interest of the young here in this great matter, so that you may look into the matter to see what this word mystery really means as used here, as referring to the assembly. It is used in other connections, but as used here it is a completion, from Paul's point of view, of the word of God. The word of God in Hebrews is said to be "living and operative, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and penetrating to the division of soul and spirit, both of joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart", Hebrews 4:12. This part of the word of God that I have read about tonight includes all that; it includes all the ideas that are spoken about in Hebrews 4 as

characterising the word of God. So, as I said, I am thinking of it as completing the word of God. I am thinking of it from that point of view; and, as being a reference to ourselves, how interesting it really is, how available. We cannot afford to be ignorant of it. We need to look into it and to use all the aids possible, and there are many, to understand it; because it is a question of being fitted for heaven. We shall understand it there. We shall be the filling out of it; for that is what the assembly is, "the fulness of him who fills all in all", Ephesians 1:23; and we are to be it. So the question is, where we are as to our interests, and whether we are ready to look into the matter and get an understanding of it so as to fill each his part. All of us are to have part in this "mystery of God", Colossians 2:2; the "mystery of the glad tidings", too, it is called, Ephesians 6:19. Why not begin to look into it and pray about it in this way, so that it may become living in the saints? Presently we are to go up; it is a time of getting ready to go up, it is an ascending time. We are to ask, we are to be ready for the ascension and all that is involved in the ascension; so that it is the mystery. I begin my discourse with this thought of completeness in the word of God.

Now it involves our relations with one another, it involves our services; if we have gift, it involves that. So we each contribute to the great matter, and, as opportunity offers to look into it in dependence on the Lord, we are to grow, "by the true knowledge of God", Colossians 1:10. It is a real mystery and we are essential to it in heaven and essential to it here. It is not simply a theoretic matter, but a real substantial matter; this matter of the mystery, composed of ourselves, so that we may each regard himself in this light. So the apostle begins this thought of completeness with the mystery, to complete the word of God.

We have in chapter 2 completeness in Christ, in whom dwells "all the fulness of the Godhead", Colossians 2:9 -- a

greater matter still, and then, finally, completeness as to our state. Chapter 2 regards completeness in us as what I may call objective truth; but chapter 4 is really subjective, very subjective. It is a question of our state, completeness as to our state. So it is said of the dear brother mentioned in Colossians 4:12: "Epaphras, who is one of you, the bondman of Christ Jesus, salutes you, always combating earnestly for you in prayers, to the end that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God". Then earlier we have in regard to their state: "Tychicus, the beloved brother and faithful minister and fellow-bondman in the Lord, will make known to you all that concerns me; whom I have sent to you for this very purpose, that he might know your state, and that he might encourage your hearts", Colossians 4:7,8. So you can see how the apostle had this matter of completeness in his mind in this remarkable epistle. It is an epistle that deals with a carnal condition in the Colossians. It was a question of things being really in the balance, as to whether they were to go on in the truth, or whether they were to be detained by philosophy and vain deceit; but in the meantime they were pleasing to God, as he says: "rejoicing and seeing your order, and the firmness of your faith in Christ", Colossians 2:5. Their stedfastness in their services Godward was a positive pleasure to the apostle.

This matter of the word of God, the completeness of it, is essential to us so as to fill out our part in this great matter. So I would urge the matter of the word of God, the completeness of it; not merely the Scriptures, but the full scheme that is in the mind of God, to include the whole scope of the assembly and its working out in the service of God in these last days. It is a question, dear brethren, of looking into the matter in its entirety. It is a complete matter. There is nothing missing now as to the scheme in the divine mind; made known in writing, but made known in ministry. Ministry is effected by the

Spirit of God in the power of gift, and that is where the thing comes in for us; God is opening it up to us through the number of brethren that are capable of ministering. There are those with a knowledge of Greek and the like, and they are needed for translations; but the real point is ministry for the saints, and that ministry requires the full scope of the Scripture, the word of God. So the word of God is known in its effectiveness. These meetings are a prime matter with God and the Holy Spirit is down here, so that we should become accustomed to the divine thoughts and ways in the mystery, to see how it reacts upon us in the service of God. So the service goes on intelligently, and God is pleased as He is served and worshipped; and the Lord Jesus is pleased as He is served and worshipped; and the Holy Spirit has His part. I am insisting on the Scriptures, but I am seeking to keep before your minds the importance of ministry in this book. It is said to one: "Take heed to the ministry which thou hast received in the Lord, to the end that thou fulfil it", Colossians 4:17. So every one of us has to look into the matter to see whether we have any ability for ministry, and to see that it is fulfilled.

The thing is to get the scope of the word of God, the scope of Scripture, so that our minds may be charged with it, nourished and ministered to in a real way; so as to understand the Scriptures, and then to understand the ministry. Why is so much not understood? Why have we so much in the way of novelties and things said raising questions of no profit? Why should it be? The Lord is challenging us as to whether we understand, so that we may get the knowledge of the whole scope of Scripture, the completion of the word of God, and to read accordingly. So Timothy is enjoined to take heed to reading and other things. What are we reading, and have we the whole scope of the Scriptures before us as in our studies? The things are brought home to us in the ministry, so the word of God must be before us for this.

Search the Scriptures daily to see whether these things are so; let everything be tested out, dear brethren, so that we know what we hold, whether it is the truth, and that we know what is meant by Scripture, and that we are "growing by the true knowledge of God". Colossians 1:10.

I am just stressing that thought of the completeness of the word of God in all I have said, and I hope the brethren will bear with me. It is no question of criticising, but of getting the brethren to learn and to hold what they learn so that our conversations are of real value, and the saints are mutually enriched by the knowledge of God through the Scriptures and through the ministry.

Now I go on to the second passage to call attention to the completeness of the Deity in Christ. Again we are confronted with the greatest error, unitarian error, whereas what the apostle aims at building up in this epistle is the deity of Christ: that "in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily", Colossians 2:9. In chapter 1 it is "in him all the fulness", "was pleased to dwell", Colossians 1:19; the word fulness indicating who the Person is. But chapter 2 is a question of what is in Him bodily; and it enables us to refute and refuse the much error that is current around us, heard constantly in our places of employment, and in the schools, where the children hear it and perhaps drink it in to their loss. So I refer to this matter of completeness in chapter 2 as a sort of objective matter; not a term that is common and threadbare, but a real matter, that is to be understood. So chapter 2 is the fulness of the Deity in Christ, bodily. For that we have to call upon, not only our minds, dear brethren, but our affections. Our minds are necessary, we can hardly understand anything without our minds. They are to be pure, renewed; but our affections are now required. It is a question of the Person and a Person liable to be attacked by perhaps your most intimate friend. You ought to be on your guard, and if you love

Christ you will be. So that if any matter is raised that casts a shade on the glory of the Lord Jesus you are ready to defend Him. We are to be like those referred to in Song of Songs; three-score armed men keep His bedside: see Song of Songs 3:7. We are to be ready to defend the Lord at all costs; even if it be one of our nearest relatives or acquaintances that might attack Him. The element is so much abroad that the most intimate of our acquaintances is liable to attack the Lord Jesus. So that the threescore mighty men show the readiness with which we should defend the Lord, whosoever it may be that attacks Him.

We have the real Christ, the Lord Jesus, "who is over all, God blessed for ever", Romans 9:5. That is the Person; and this second chapter is, as I said, to fit us for the service of God. It is a matter of faith, as it is said, "raised with him through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead", Colossians 2:12. That is a matter of faith. The word faith is used in this connection as over against sight, which will be the principle in the millennium. We are not raised outwardly now, but raised "through the faith of the working of God". Colossians 2:12. It is a real matter in the sense of operation; that the Lord Jesus is really raised. There is no question about that. He is raised and glorified. All the glorification is a part of the dispensation. "Touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my Father", John 20:17. It is not 'not yet risen', but "not yet ascended". The ascension of Christ is part of the dispensation, and it is the light that was given to Mary Magdalene; and she went to the disciples and told them "that she had seen the Lord, and that he had said these things to her", John 20:18. What an honoured woman she was; not an apostle or gifted woman, as far as we know; not that a woman may not have gift, even as the daughters of Philip, but she had affection. At first she was quite dark, but when she became enlightened she had a pure affection. So she says

to the Lord, Rabboni; as if to say to us, You ask me about knowledge, He is my Teacher: I get all from Jesus. That is the idea. She would not tolerate any shade cast upon Him by her most intimate acquaintance. So she says, Rabboni; and then she is sent to the disciples, and says to them that she had seen the Lord -- a very great matter. We too have to challenge ourselves as to whether we have seen the Lord. It is not a common thing; it is a very uncommon thing; but, at the same time, it is available to the lovers of Christ. It is characteristic of the lovers of Christ that they see the Lord. Then she could say that He had spoken these things to her; and these things implied that the Lord was risen, and not only risen but ascended. Well, you may say, He was not ascended yet. Not literally; He remained on earth forty days after that moment. He remained on earth forty days; but then, if you read Luke 24, you would think He went up to heaven immediately. As far as that chapter is concerned, you might think that He went up to heaven the day He rose. But He means to convey that He is in haste to get to heaven, for administration purposes; to put, as I might say, the moral universe in order. There is so much disorder. What about the sisters in Mark! They did not stand the test at all. They went away distressed when they learned the Lord was risen; whereas the truth was, that it was a time of love, and the Lord would be thinking of what was needed. There were a group of persons that had been drawn to Him, surrounded Him, loved Him; and they all needed to be adjusted, every one of them. There is the Lord too, thinking of the necessity of adjustment; and, moreover, the whole matter of the dispensation, that all should be set in order. So there is no suggestion there that the Lord remained on earth for forty days; it is in the Acts we have that. But in Luke's gospel the Lord would say, as it were: 'I want to go up there; it is where I belong. I have to be received up there until the restitution of all

things. I am going to send you out to preach, but I want you to stay in Jerusalem until the time comes for it to be done'. So, according to Luke's gospel, as soon as He goes into heaven, He receives the Spirit from the Father and sheds Him forth, because that was necessary, and the Lord would have things put right immediately.

On the other hand, according to the book of Acts, the Lord would imply, 'I want to stay with you as long as possible, so that you get the right thought from Me and get adjusted amongst yourselves'. So He assembled with them for that purpose. What about Israel? they might say. "Lord, is it at this time that thou restorest the kingdom to Israel"? Acts 1:6 He would say, 'It is for you to see about the Spirit, for all will stand in relation to the Spirit. But the times and seasons are not in my hands'. The Lord is taking the lowly place in this; and He is bringing them and us now into what He is doing. Do the things first; show the things first; and then teach. So the Lord stayed with them for forty days. The Spirit of God tells us by Paul that He "appeared to Cephas", 1 Corinthians 15:5; and then again He appeared to the twelve, without saying the word apostles. It was as if He said, You did not get the full impression at the beginning. So it is a constant thing, for there are to be impressions throughout the dispensation. Then He appeared to James by himself; he is a brother the Lord has in mind that He will use; but he must have his own work. Persons are qualified by Himself; taught what to do by Himself; so that they can do things as He does them.

So He appeared to James, a lone man, who was able to do things like a man. That is the gift of government, a very important thing. If there is a brother here who has the gift of government, he has a right from heaven to go anywhere. He is needed, but he is under the Lord's direction. So he knows what to do if any ask for advice.

If there is a brother that has the gift of government to help the brethren in difficulties, so that he will not

mislead the brethren (the brother is liable to mislead the brethren if he is looked to too much) the Lord would appear to him to qualify him in his work so as not to mislead the brethren in any advice he gives. Then the Lord appeared to all the apostles. So to all of us here the Lord says, 'I know you too, and each of you by himself, but also unitedly! I can use you together, but not disunited'. I would lay that down as a cardinal rule with myself; if I am needed by the Lord I am not to be disunited at all from my brethren. So the Lord prayed to His Father for them, "that they also may be one in us, that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou hast given me I have given them, that they may be one, as we are one; I in them and thou in me, that they may be perfected into one and that the world may know that thou hast sent me", John 17:21 - 23.

You see how much hinges on unity amongst us.

I want to go back to chapter 2 so that we may see the objective idea that enables us to carry on the service of God together. It is what God has made us. First, "in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily", Colossians 2:9, but, "ye are complete in him", Colossians 2:10, filled full in Him. That is not practical, not active; it is a question of what God has made us. The pattern is used, as He said to Moses, "See", "that thou make all things according to the pattern which has been shewn to thee in the mountain", Hebrews 8:5. That pattern means that we are all capable of taking part in the mystery. So he says, "ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead", Colossians 2:12. It is a question of faith, not sight, not literality. We have faith. We could not serve God if we had not faith. It must be on that principle; and so chapter 2 is qualifying us objectively to have part in the service of God. Every one of us who has the Spirit is qualified to have part in the service of God.

But when we come to chapter 4 we have this matter, "Epaphras, who is one of you, the bondman of Christ Jesus,

salutes you, always combating earnestly for you in prayers, to the end that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God", Colossians 4:12. Now we are coming to actuality, to what we call often the subjective side of things. Chapter 2 is the objective side and it qualifies us to serve God. It is not the moral question, but the objective matter; how we are constituted by the power of God; that we are all made qualified as having the Spirit, constituted to serve God. That is abstract. Pardon me, if you do not understand what I am saying; but it is a question of how we are constituted according to God's own wisdom, His own power, so that normally, I can serve God, I am constituted to serve God. Therefore, I am raised by faith of the operation of God which raised Christ. Being raised, I am constituted to serve God; I belong to the heavenly places. In Ephesians Paul says, He "has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus", Ephesians 2:6. That is the full thought anticipatively, but Colossians is faith in God's power, believing in the power of God. If you are a believer at all you believe in the power of God that raised Christ. But that question is not raised in Ephesians; it is a question of being raised up together, not disunited, but united in our minds. The great collective thought that God has in mind: raised up together, and made to sit down together in Christ. These are great matters, true matters; and, as we believe them they enable us to have part in the service of God.

We need these brothers who pray. That is what marked Epaphras. He is a praying brother; and it would appear to me that Paul had made inquiry of him as to Colosse, and he told Paul that they needed instruction as to the will of God. They needed to be prayed for as to the will of God; and that is a very great point. I am sure that God has ordained the prayer meeting. I think of it as beginning on the eastern edge of New Zealand, and running along to South Africa and America down to the

Pacific. A long prayer meeting. It is most needed to build us up constitutionally, "perfect and complete in all the will of God" Colossians 4:12 -- not a part of it, but the whole matter of the will of God. So Epaphras is said to be one of the Colossians, a servant of Christ. What an honourable man! "Always combating earnestly for you in prayers, to the end that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God". Colossians 4:12. That is what I would say is practical christianity, dear brethren; that is what heaven is looking for. There is the objective, the matter of power, the matter of faith; but there is the matter of prayer that the saints may be perfect and complete in all the will of God, and seeking out what it is in any given matter. It is a question of how the will of God affects us, when we may be perfect and complete in all the will of God. That is my message at this time. I commit it to the brethren.

GUIDANCE OUTWARD AND INWARD

Numbers 9:15 - 23; Psalm 73:13 - 20

I have before me to speak about guidance, present guidance for the saints in its two features, inward, and outward. I speak first of the outward and so have read from Numbers; this being a wilderness book is thus marked by the means of guidance for the saints in the antitypical sense, and applying from the outset of the dispensation. Hence it refers not only to the early chapter of the Acts, but to Paul's ministry. That is to say, it is pure guidance for the saints according to God, not including judaism, but ignoring it as having dropped to the level of the world. Guidance was needed as to it, to get out of it, and so now that christendom has become like judaism, like paganism too, but particularly like judaism, we need guidance to get out of it morally. We were in it, but if we are out of it, we need to keep out of it.

Numbers contemplates this dispensation and gives us guidance in a typical sense. The name of the book primarily was 'In the Wilderness', which is in a sense the right name, for in truth we are in the wilderness where there is no way according to God. Of course there are highways of the world, on the seas and on the land, on which we are dependent in our journeyings; on which Paul was dependent too. Undoubtedly he valued the great Roman highways which we know something of now, and he took these ways in his journeys. No one knew better the meaning of journeys than he. He says: "I, from Jerusalem, and in a circuit round to Illyricum, have fully preached the glad tidings of Christ"; Romans 15:19; it involved considerable travel. Indeed he takes pains to tell us some of his journeys, to depict them. We are now in a time of travel and we value of course the mercies of God in the highways, and the vessels that are available

in which to travel, but the book of Numbers does not help on these lines at all. It is a question of guidance that comes out of heaven; that is really what is in mind in the book of Numbers; and the personnel charged with doing the work are heavenly persons, with heavenly ways; they know, too, something of divine Persons. God has greatly helped us, and is ready to help us more as to the divine Persons, so that we might know how to name Them, and to use Their names in relation to divine service, and to be governed by the Persons governing that service.

The Kohathites are particularly in mind, for the charge of the truth relative to the divine Persons was upon them; this is set forth in the things they were to carry. They are mentioned in the family of Levi according to their birth, and then they are mentioned according to sovereignty in Numbers 4, so that God is taking care of His own rights and the honour that is due to Him in His services, and we have to look into this matter, particularly in Numbers.

The Merarites, too, are especially to be thought of, because it is still a question of persons. The Kohathites of course had to do with things as well as persons, and so, too, all the Levites, but the Merarites are concerned specially about the persons of the brethren, persons whose names are cherished above. Luke informs us as to what is above, and I believe bears greatly on the book of Numbers because it relates to persons. The Lord, after having sent out twelve persons, sent out seventy persons. In regard to these seventy the names are not given, but what is stated by the Lord is that their names are written in heaven. The collection of names is therefore important in the history of those seventy persons; they come into the book of Numbers; the twelve, too, of course. Luke referring to the seventy tells us that the Lord spoke to them about the son of peace, chapter 10: 6, because the time had about come for peace in heaven, chapter 19.

In the beginning of Luke it was peace on earth, but the time had come for peace in heaven, and so the Lord in Luke is seen as going up to heaven. In Luke 9:51, we read that "the days of his receiving up were fulfilled". The days of His receiving up are the most important days, because they allude to the heavenly side coming into view; they are in view of christianity, in view typically in the book of Numbers. The heavenly side came into view, and following this the Lord said to the seventy in Luke 10:20, "rejoice not, that the spirits are subjected to you"; that was important, of course, but we are apt to attach more importance to the subjection of the demons in our ministry than to the importance of heaven. So that heaven comes into the midst of Luke, on the mount of transfiguration in chapter 9; and chapter 10 tells us that the names of the seventy were registered in heaven, and they were to rejoice in this. They were to be heavenly missionaries, full of buoyancy, discerning the joy that is up there in their ministry, that their ministry becomes the occasion of it; "joy in heaven for one repenting sinner". Luke 15:7.

I have been diverted in a way to speak about Luke and the seventy. I am speaking about Numbers and guidance in Numbers, but I must speak about the missionaries those who go out and journey, and those who meet the devil, who have power over him and overcome him, and then that they should be buoyant and rejoice more in the fact that their place is in heaven, that they are known in heaven. As soon as I come into the light of the fact that I am known in heaven I think less and less of what the brethren think of me. Not that I do not value their appreciation, but it is a question of one's own value of himself, if he can trust it, and, if he has found he can trust it, he knows what to think of the ofttimes too much praise that is offered to those who minister. We have to value each other, and each is to value himself. The book of Leviticus tells us how to do that, how heaven does it

too. It is important to have a right valuation each of himself, to have a measure of faith, as it is said; to apply the right measure in valuing oneself. Hence to know just how much appraisement of the brethren is to be regarded, so as to be balanced. I believe that Leviticus affords that balance, but Numbers affords the way of guidance, general guidance, outward and inward, the means of outward guidance, and the means of inward guidance.

The tabernacle is intended for that. Light comes out of the tabernacle; from that I exclude judaism, and all that is like it, from the light that is afforded in Numbers. Thus I would speak a little of the tabernacle according to chapter 9. One was struck with the great reference to the cloud, and then, of course, second to that, the tabernacle, the tabernacle of testimony as it is called, and how the presence of God is expressed in it. So the tabernacle and its movements, but the movements of the cloud particularly, have a great place in the passage read. In view of accuracy and real practicalness I would say that what the tabernacle represents is seen in the early chapters of the Acts, but only partially. It is a question of what comes about among the brethren; what did come about in the days of the apostles; how that the light that shone became named, and the persons representing the things became named; and so gradually we have the idea of public guidance, things we can see publicly as guides. So in Acts 2 we get the great service of Peter. In Matthew the Spirit of God assigns him the first place, and we are to follow the light and guidance, and to see what was named, and what forms began to acquire currency amongst the saints, what ways of doing things, what terms in teaching, so that we can name what has been done. The book of Numbers will become more intelligible to us as we look into it from this point of view, and we can gauge what we are going on with now.

What took place in Acts 2 was that saints took on names, and particularly the apostles. The three thousand

converts began to feel things and to act on their feelings, so that they spoke to Peter and the others calling them "Men and brethren" and saying, "What shall we do"? They did not go to the high priest in Jerusalem, nor did they go to the temple, they instinctively turned to the apostles, and the apostles are said to have teaching, to have doctrine, and to have fellowship; and also they had the breaking of bread, and they had prayer; so that we gradually see, by analysing what we have in the early chapters of Acts, how christianity took form publicly, and we can discern by comparison whether the forms then agree with the forms now, or whether we are adding something, or whether we are subtracting something, for perhaps the subtractions or additions may imply misguidance, so that we are losing our way to some extent. We all know how the two going to Emmaus lost their way, but it was not serious as it turned out. The Lord is gracious too. Where should we have been during the past fifty, or seventy-five, or one hundred years had not the Lord stood by. Things have happened that should never have happened amongst us, but the Lord stood by and saved us from very real difficulty. I am alluding to what many of us here know, but am not naming it. I am thinking of the importance of adhering to apostolic authority. They persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles and were saved in a right way. The last paragraph of Acts 2 indicates what I am saying. What a beautiful picture it presents. It is heaven come down, but heaven come down in public ways, not in what was held exactly, but in public ways; in what the brethren did. The word in Acts 1:1 is "which Jesus began both to do and to teach". In Acts 2 it is what the apostles began both to do and to teach, the doing was the testimony, the teaching, of course, supported it, but the doing was the point, and it reflected what was in heaven, the beauty of heaven was shining out in Jerusalem, although the temple was retained in a certain respect, yet it was

gradually "disappearing" as Paul says later. The greater thing came to light; that is to say, what was patterned in heaven came to light, and there was guidance in that for anyone who wished to come into the fellowship.

Now I am very briefly going over what I had in mind, hoping that the brethren are following. Perhaps some here have never entered inside the door, most have I am sure, but I am endeavouring to make clear to all, including myself, that Numbers contemplates what is in heaven for the guidance of the people of God in the wilderness; so that the name of the book at the beginning was quite right; that is, In the wilderness, as we often sing: --

'In the desert God will teach thee
What the God that thou hast found --
Patient, gracious, powerful, holy:
All His grace shall there abound'. (Hymn 76)

It is what abounds in the wilderness. So as the first resting place is mentioned in the scripture read our attention is called to the "tabernacle of the tent of testimony", Numbers 9:15, but especially it brings to our attention the cloud which is mentioned a remarkable number of times in the passage. It was there even before they crossed the Red Sea, but after they crossed the Red Sea Numbers takes the matter up and therefore it is a guide for all of us, especially as to fellowship, because Numbers teaches us how to walk.

Jehovah said in Hosea, I "taught Ephraim to walk". Hosea 11:3. Young people need to be taught to walk and to please God, and that is one point in my mind, dear brethren -- Numbers is intended to teach us how to walk. Nothing could be more interesting for study than the book of Numbers from this standpoint, and what we are dealing with as we begin the journey is what comes out of heaven. All else is given up, and repudiated, and hence christendom as it stands publicly is repudiated. We have to learn to repudiate things, to be very severe in our judgment,

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keeping in our minds that we are dealing with what is from heaven. The Lord Jesus has gone into heaven, angels and authorities and powers being made subject to Him. He has been received up there again, received up in glory. Luke would impress upon us, that He made haste to go to heaven, meaning not exactly that He wanted to be there for enjoyment, but to set out what was in the mind of God for the people of God down here, to set out the great matter that was to be unfolded in the doctrine of the apostles, and their ways; the doctrine developed amongst them, the breaking of bread and prayers, and out of these two thoughts what have we not to rejoice in, in our own time? But then the twelve set out what was in the mind of God. The Lord had gone up into heaven.

Luke emphasises the matter of going up into heaven. He begins in chapter 2 by telling us that an angel came down from heaven to the shepherds and presently there was "a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good pleasure in men". Luke 2:13,14. That is what they were saying, and it was to furnish light for the moment, and the earth was in mind for great things, and it is yet in mind for great things. God has not given it up, His thought is that His will is to be done on earth as it is in heaven. So the angels were engaged with earth in their sayings, and a "multitude" too. We are not told how many, but a multitude, and they were saying, "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good pleasure in men"; Luke 2:14; not in man but in men, it is the plural idea, the whole race of man is in mind. Christ had become Man, and it was a celebration of the incarnation, the most wonderful thing, the incarnation of the second Person of the Godhead; He had become Man, and the angels were occupied with it, and it was in their minds. It involved great things for men, however few or many, there was a great future for men, and so

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Luke 2 has that in mind. But the angels departed, as much as to say, that part is settled, heaven has announced its mind as to man, and presently we have the Lord Jesus, who had become a Babe, and would become a Boy, a holy Boy, substantially holy. He became a Man presently, and so was baptised. We are told He was about thirty years of age; the allusion is to full manhood; it is levitical.

Then the wonderful service, as chapter 4 records what happened at Nazareth, that He was anointed; "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me"; Luke 4:18; gracious words were coming out of the mouth of Jesus. Then He is led in the wilderness, not into it, but in it. That is what Numbers contemplates, not that He was led into it, but He was in it. He was led in it, and we are in it, and the point now is as to whether we are being led. He was led in it -- terrible thought -- to be tempted of the devil. Then came, as I said, the preaching in Nazareth. What a picture of the gospel! The Lord Jesus here full of all that was in heaven for men, good pleasure in men. God could speak of that already, because Christ had become a Man, what pleasure there was in that blessed Man as heaven looked down. It was the complete heavenly ideal in manhood, and so the service went on. Chapter 4 gives the preaching at Nazareth, and how immediately they would have led Him to the brow of the hill on which their city was built and cast Him down headlong. What can be done now with earth if that is the attitude of earth? It is, let us not forget it. As led in the wilderness when we break bread, whether it be in a large city, or a small one, or a village, it is a city of the world; it is the city of hostility to Christ; a city of this world representatively, whether it be a village, or a town, or a city, with the hatred that was there in Nazareth which expressed itself in their leading the Lord Jesus to the brow of the bill on which the city was built to cast Him down headlong.

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We have to think of this in the meetings God is affording us, when we come to the first day of the week. The devil would blot out the days of the week, confuse our minds in regard to them, as in Russia, for instance, although there may be some little change there now. God helps His people to carry out the mind of heaven, and to carry out the mind of heaven we break bread. We say in the words of the sons of Korah as in the second book of Psalms, where they are cast out of their land, even as Jesus has been cast out; "I remember thee from the land of the Jordan" and beyond it, Psalm 42:6. Whatever city it be in which we break bread, its character is spiritually Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified; Revelation 11:8. Let us not forget that. It is intended to come into our hearts as we break bread, that our Lord was crucified in Jerusalem, or whatever city we may name, the spirit of crucifixion and of murder against Christ is there. I would not say anything to distress the saints, but whether it be London or Washington, or Paris, or the smallest village, it is the same; there is that murderous opposition to Christ, however it may work out. It is for us to bear it in mind in the wilderness where we break bread, for it is in the wilderness we break bread if we are guided aright. We used to say we broke bread in the land, but the truth is, that we break bread in the wilderness, and Numbers contemplates the conditions in which we break bread externally. Think of what the breaking of bread means in the midst of all this.

I have been speaking of the tabernacle of testimony; there it is in the cities of the world; in the wilderness. There is a little room, and a brother comes in in love, and lays the table, as we say; places the cloth on it, thinking of the Lord's words, and the disciples' thoughts where they were to prepare for the Lord to eat the passover. The Lord never ate of His own supper, the Supper is for us to eat, but He did eat the passover, and that is what is in mind when the idea of supping is

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spoken of in regard of the cup, "after having supped". Luke 22:20, it is the passover, not His own supper. He desired that the brethren should sup, and if there is anyone here who is not taking the Lord's supper, not drinking the cup of the Lord, then I would say it is for you to think of it. "Drink ye all of it", Matthew 26:27, the Lord says.

I am speaking of the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness. Here is a little room in a large, or small town. I am describing the conditions in which the Lord's supper is celebrated. It is to be on the Lord's day, a day having another name which is endeared in our hearts, referring to the day in which He rose. The Father raised Him by His glory -- a wonderful thought. The Lord's day is the first day of the week, the beginning of days for us. I am seeking to describe the scene of the celebration of the Lord's supper. You say, Well you have begun with Numbers, a great book full of typical teaching, but you are coming down to a little room somewhere where the Lord's supper is celebrated. That is just my thought. I want to fit in the position of Numbers, the tabernacle of witness, of testimony, nothing less than that. What is it? Somebody comes in maybe with some interest, and he sits down; there are a few brothers and sisters sitting there reverentially, respectfully, thinking of the Lord as absent. We have to learn to think of Him as absent. He is our absent Lord. He has been cast out of Jerusalem; He suffered without the gate, we are told. Now in this little village where the saints come together, you say, the people are mostly christians, but yet there is some element there that would murder Christ. I do not want anyone to think I am severe, for what I am saying is the exact truth of the position, and what we are to be in it, and what guidance there is for us in it. So that the Lord's supper is "as often as ye shall eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye announce the death of the Lord, until he come". 1 Corinthians 11:26.

Now the inward guidance is in the breaking of the

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bread and the drinking of the cup. It is a question of what is inward, what we enjoy inwardly, but I am speaking now of what is outward. What we enjoy inwardly is one thing, and what we see and enjoy outwardly is another. That is the order the Lord Himself has inaugurated in setting up His supper for His people to remember Him, and to show forth His death in their eating and in their drinking. The little room I have alluded to, and the service and the following things that happen, are the idea of the testimony, a reflection of heaven, what is according to God in the circumstances. The circumstances, of course, will cease, but they have not ceased yet; we are still in the wilderness, and these things happen.

One could say a great deal on this point as to what is external, what was set up by the apostles inclusive of Paul, because Numbers contemplates Paul. We have not christianity properly without Paul. Of course christianity was established when the Spirit came, but not until Paul came in "an elect vessel to me", Acts 9:15, have we the full thought of christianity, especially the assembly. The assembly was there, but not understood. It was reserved for Paul to bring out as he calls it, the mystery, and that is where the public matter is to be seen, the saints coming together in assembly. What were they doing? They were assembled to break bread; that is a testimony, a public matter, it is a reflection of heaven, something that is not to be in the millennium, it is only for this time; in the time of the rejection of Christ this wonderful conception has taken form and continues, and the brethren are affected by it. The Lord's supper is intended to affect us; and that is a testimony.

I go on now to Psalm 73 to show what the inward thing is: I have endeavoured to point out the public situation of the Lord's supper, the service of God accurately carried out in the power of the Spirit, in measure, in the meetings of the Lord's people at the present time. I have no hesitation in saying that it

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affords guidance for every one who wishes to be in the mind of heaven at the present moment. Now the Psalm is to show how faith was affected in times of testing. Psalm 73 is a psalm of Asaph, it is in the third book of Psalms, and refers really to the service of God. The whole book has the service of God in mind, and hence the place Asaph has in it. He was a great servant in the days of David celebrating the service of song in the temple of God. Asaph was distressed by the world even in those days, the character of the world was so oppressive, and he depicts it in the verse read: "Truly I have purified my heart in vain, and washed my hands in innocency. For all the day have I been plagued, and chastened every morning. If I said, I will speak thus; behold, I should be faithless to the generation of thy children. When I thought to be able to know this, it was a grievous task in mine eyes; until I went into the sanctuaries of God". Psalm 73:13 - 17. It is a full priestly allusion, although Asaph was not exactly a priest, he was one of the Levites. He understood the sanctuary, using the word in the plural, so he says: "until I went into the sanctuaries of God; then understood I their end". Psalm 73:17.

I now appeal to the brethren in seeking to bring out the idea of guidance, as to our being guided spiritually, not simply by public forms that look good, but by what is taught spiritually, being guided by spiritual impressions, and these impressions are typically seen in the holiest; that is, in the sanctuary. There were certain physical things there, things that depicted that which was spiritual, and Asaph was not under the power of them for the moment. He was a leading singer, but even he, with all his power of song, got into trouble in his soul. That is the way with many of us. We break bread, and one is thankful that so many do in any given place, but what about the troubles that come into the soul? Although there may be a respectable exterior the soul may not be in order, not just right, not in the intelligence

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of what is in heaven, because that is my point, what is in heaven. Numbers involves what is in heaven, heavenly things, the centre of which was the tabernacle, but the tabernacle not only had an external appearance; it had an internal appearance. So the question is now in the breaking of bread as to whether our souls are equal to the externals. The emblems are there and laid rightly; even the box is there, but then what about the internal state? That is one point I had in mind in reading this psalm, how Asaph was troubled, although he was a great singer, and had a great place in the service of God, he had great trouble because of external conditions, and even his own state of soul. He said, "I was as a beast with thee". Psalm 73:22. That is a solemn matter. The state is to be

'Not a cloud above, not a spot within' (Hymn 22)

How about that? God is taking account of the within. He made provision for the within as well as the without.

Numbers does not help on this line, the Psalms do. They are spiritual experiences and we get ideas from them as to what should be, and is. As we think of the glory that is brought in as the Lord Jesus comes m among us; for He has promised to come, and I urge the brethren, as I have often done before, to count on the promises. He has promised to come in, saying, "I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you". John 14:18. The question is how we receive Him, whether there is any movement with us when it happens, whether we can discern Him when it happens, or whether we take it for granted; others think so and you think the same, and you go out of the morning meeting as you come in. It should not be so; there should be a great change. There are movements in heaven all the time. The impressions that flow from the Lord Jesus in heaven cannot be numbered. He comes with these, they are brought down here, and when He does come it is a real thing, not corporeally, though that is not to be excluded. The Lord will presently come down corporeally; "every eye shall

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see him", Revelation 1:7, at His appearing. But I am thinking now of the private appearances of the Lord; they are ours. We look for His coming, it is to be a private coming for us, the corporeal appearance of the Lord; He came corporeally at the beginning, as we see in Acts and 1 Corinthians, so He will do it again. We look for it, and He counts on our loving it too, to love His coming for us. He loves us to think of His coming with us; that is the great and glorious end He has in mind, when He comes down with the assembly, with His bride. What a thought, dear brethren!

I do want to press this matter of spiritual impressions involving inward guidance, so the apostle says: "For this cause I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named, in order that he may give you according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man". Ephesians 3:14 - 16. That is all inward. We are to understand what it is to be affected by spiritual impressions, and thus the Lord's supper becomes real, the assembly becomes a real fact when we are together; we are dignified in this way, outwardly guided and inwardly guided. I stress the idea of inward guidance, the Spirit of the Father affecting us, that we might know the breadth and length and depth and height and enjoy the love of Christ. We are in limited circumstances, but we are to know certain things. Paul said he knew the mystery, and said it so that others might know it, and it is for us now to know the mystery.

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LOVERS OF THE TRUTH

1 John 2:13 (first clause); 14 (first clause); 2 John 1

I have in mind, dear brethren, to engage you with John's writings, viewing him as a father, even as Paul also is to be viewed; he enlarges on his fatherhood. John alludes to his own fatherhood and speaks of those to whom he wrote as his children. The need for fatherhood is always evident amongst the brethren, and it is especially suggested in John and Paul. John speaks to us of Christ as "him that is from the beginning" 1 John 1:13,14, and of the truth of christianity "that which was from the beginning". 1 John 1:1.

The new testament comes first in the holy writings as to all matters; the Old, of course, having its place, for every scripture is inspired of God and profitable. But the Lord's remark in Matthew 13:52, as to a scribe discipled into the kingdom of the heavens, bringing forth from his treasure things new and old, indicates that the new comes first, and that in our teaching, and our doctrine in our teaching, we must regard the precedence of the new testament in all matters. Hence the early converts, according to Acts 2, persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles. It does not say they persevered in the law of Moses; not that that did not have its place, because the Jews had the oracles of God; they had a great advantage, but "that which was from the beginning" 1 John 1:1, is not an allusion to what Moses gave, nor is it an allusion to the prophets; it is to Christ as become man.

John himself being a father insists on the truth relative to Him that is from the beginning, and that which was from the beginning. And he refers to fathers in growth; that is to say, to christians who have advanced in the truth, especially in the knowledge of Christ as from the

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beginning. The point is not so much that He is a divine Person, although that is involved, but that the ministry of Christ is the beginning of things in christianity and must have the first place in all matters, especially if they are of a controversial character. The last word must be from the Lord and His apostles.

I have read these two parts of verses in John's first epistle, because the apostle refers to the matter of the Lord's being from the beginning, twice over, as you will observe. First he says, "I write to you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning", 1 John 2:13, and says no more. Then, in 1 John 2:14, he says, "I have written to you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning". It is just a change of tense, but to call attention to the same thing. He wrote to the persons addressed, because they had known, or knew Him that is from the beginning. That would mean the doctrine set out in the Lord's ministry, and confirmed in the apostle's ministry. In Acts 2 the apostles are put first, for we are told that they, that is to say, the converts who listened to Peter and were converted through him, persevered in the apostles' teaching and fellowship. So when we are looking into the Scriptures and ministering from them, whatever it be in the ministry, the testimony, it is clear that we must give the first place to the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ, whether His own direct teaching or that of the apostles. So, as I said, John here stresses this in speaking to the fathers. So the fathers amongst us at the present time are much needed. It is a cheer to hear a brother who has experience rise amongst us and speak to God, or speak to us, especially if he has ability to speak to us, because we expect him, in what he says, to be authoritative and to recognise the Scriptures; to have the Scriptures behind what he says. So that the truth runs smoothly amongst us and the saints grow, unimpeded by novelties, or unscriptural statements sought to be based on old testament scriptures.

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Now I mention these thoughts, which I regard as important, so that all may be moving on in the truth, that we may be lovers of the truth. The truth is a great point with John, and he tells us that the Lord Jesus said of Himself, "I am", "the truth", John 14:6. The Lord Jesus is the truth, so that evidently, if it is a question of truth to be decided, we must refer to what He says, or His apostles. If other scriptures seem to us to disagree, because of our lack of understanding, we must defer to the teaching of the Lord Jesus, and the Holy Spirit through the apostles. I read these two verses so that the elder brethren amongst us may see the responsibility attaching to us, for I find myself amongst them, and I am glad of this, glad to have a place with them. I am speaking now to my elder brethren here as to the responsibility of paying attention to what is written and what is ministered, to see that the Scriptures have their place in what is ministered, that the saints thus may be brought up in the truth as loving it. John speaks to the elect lady as one loved in the truth; he speaks to her as a person who was herself loved in the truth, and of her children as walking in truth. I wish to bring forward the importance of experience amongst us, experience in the truth, whether it be teaching the truth, or following it, so that, as having this experience, we can be relied on. One of the greatest features is that we should be reliable in what we commend to the brethren, that the brethren may be sure of what we are saying.

I want now to speak of the elect lady and her children; it is a remarkable expression. "The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not I only, but also all who have known the truth". 2 John 1:1. Now Peter uses a similar expression in 1 Peter 5:13; and we all know how Paul respects sisters, respects those who serve in truth, as in the case of Phoebe, and Lydia, and others; and indeed the Scriptures throughout signalise persons called "holy women", beginning with Sarah,

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then Rebecca, and right down to such as Deborah, Abigail, and many others. How the Spirit of God signalises them as having a public place in the testimony; not simply for doing the ordinary service of sisters or women, but as engaged in actual testimony; and this sister called "the elect lady" is amongst them, and she has another sister, for John says to her, "The children of thine elect sister greet thee". 2 John 1:13. She had another sister who was also elect; that is, distinguished. Then Peter says to the saints, "She that is elected with you in Babylon salutes you". 1 Peter 5:13. The Authorised Version says "The church", but the New Translation says, "She that is elected with you". It is remarkable that these two apostles have sisters in their minds; and then, as I said, what a place Paul gives sisters in his epistles. I need say nothing about 1 Corinthians, and 2 Corinthians, and then Philippians; these evidence what I am saying, what place sisters have in the testimony; not doing simply the ordinary daily household duties of sisters, but serving in testimony so as to acquire distinction, as I might say, in heaven. We have in Paul's first epistle to Timothy a sister who is to be put on the list. That is remarkable, and her history is to be known, what qualities she had, what services she rendered; so with many others. Sisters are not only honoured in doing their ordinary duties, but serving in the testimony, and therefore I venture to launch out a little on this point, and having already delivered my soul in connection with the first passage read, I now turn to this epistle as to the elect lady and her children.

As I was saying, Peter has the same sort of thing in mind, and we cannot think that, in what he says about sisters, he includes their marital relations; he speaks about what is in their hearts, the hidden man of the heart. I would specially mention that, "the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptible ornament of a meek and quiet spirit which in the sight of God is of great price". 1 Peter 3:4. I

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would specially refer to what sisters have in their hearts, and the loyalty that belongs to it, and the graciousness that becomes those who profess to belong to the assembly; so that the hidden man of the heart is there. The assembly must be in Peter's mind, it is not as if he spoke of it in the marital relation, but it clearly is in his mind, as also in John's, and in Paul's. Therefore all these remarks as to sisters must originate in the first chapter of the Bible. It is a question of what is in the mind of God to bring about eternally and in testimony here for the little while that remains to us while we are here.

We find in John a remarkable allusion to this, three women at the grave of Jesus, three Marys, as if the Lord would press upon us the idea of suffering at this time, and what suffering there has been! I would not be behind for a moment in my feelings and sympathies with my brethren who have been through suffering which I have not been through, but these sufferings are intended to form us in view of the assembly, that is the idea. There were standing by the cross of Jesus the three Marys, and John was there too; a remarkable group of persons standing there and witnessing the agonies of Jesus, and it is said of John, that he was the disciple whom Jesus loved. The Lord says of John, as He looked on His mother, "Woman, behold thy son". John 19:26. Let us not think that the Lord directed her view to Himself; He did not; He directed her view to John, the trusted one. The Lord would ever use one whom He trusted, to exemplify His mind, and John was a trusted person, and hence the view of our Lord's own mother at that moment is directed by Him to John; "Behold thy son". John 19:26. The present, dear brethren, is a moment for calling attention to John in that sense, as the trusted one, for the need is great for trustworthy persons; those who can reliably be given things to do, that we can count on their doing them. You will remember how Simeon in Luke 2 says to Mary, "A

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sword shall go through thine own soul also". Luke 2:35. I am endeavouring to bring home to us the reality of suffering. I have already alluded to the reality of those sufferings which I cannot speak of as knowing experimentally, for I have not been through the things most of you have been through, but I am now seeking to bring home to you and to myself the reality of sufferings, that they belong to the moment, that the moment requires them. So the Lord directs His mother who is now being deprived of her own Son, and as a sword is piercing her soul; she was truly a Mary in suffering. But there were two other Marys there, the name obviously signifying that they came through suffering. It is a suffering time. So He says to His mother, "Behold thy son"; John 19:26; then He says to John, "Behold thy mother". John 19:27. Think of what the Lord was placing on His beloved disciple; He was handing over to John His own mother, but not now as His mother, but as John's mother; He is constituting her John's mother. What a disciple, therefore, we have in John in that the mother of the Lord is constituted his mother! -- "and from that hour the disciple took her to his own home". John 19:27.

We can well appreciate what the Lord thought of that, what He ever thinks of acts of that kind, for exploits are great matters in heaven; heaven is full of the matter of exploits, but what exploits? The exploits of love, of the sufferings of love; heaven is full of that. We shall see the records, and we may well aspire to have our names in those records of the exploits of love. So John was handed over the care of the Lord's own mother and she was to be in that home as John's mother, and he was to be there as her son. Thus we have constituted a peculiar and precious suggestion; we have circumstances that will stand the test at such a time as that, and such a time as this in view of the time of translation, for it is a question of the time of translation. I have no hesitation in saying that the days have come for it. The days of the

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Lord's receiving up came earlier than may have been anticipated, but they came, and the days of our translation have come too. It may be years, of course, but at the same time we may call these the days of our translation, and let every one of us see what it is he is constituted in these circumstances; that is, the circumstances of love, where love places us, and where love would enable us to carry out its behests as under the eyes of the Lord. For it is within our range to have precious treasure. I am speaking of the assembly, and I am sure that John and Peter and Paul too are speaking of that when they allude to these things in their writings.

Now Peter says, "She that is elected with you". 1 Peter 5:13. There may be several thoughts in this. It may be the brotherhood, or it may be a sister, a wife, one that was evidently honoured; but it may well be that there is an allusion to the assembly in Babylon. "She that is elected with you in Babylon". 1 Peter 5:13. How remarkable that there should be an assembly in Babylon, and that she should be saluting the brethren elsewhere, co-partners with the brethren. Well, that is what it is. Babylon has now acquired a great place in christendom in this sense, in the form of a woman too. I mean Rome as in the book of Revelation. "Thy wife, Jezebel", says John, Revelation 2:20; see Note. He says that to the assembly in Thyatira, and he says, You are allowing her, you are tolerating her. So that we are challenged as to whether we are tolerating any forms or features of Babylon. Yet we are in the midst of Babylon; there can be no doubt that in this country, and in all the countries of christendom, Babylon has increasing power, and it is a question with real christians of loyalty to the Lord in the midst of it; for He tells us plainly, "her children will I kill with death". Revelation 2:23. That is the announcement. We have just to wait for that, but we have not to wait very long for these things, they are at our doors, but the point is love's loyalty to Christ in the midst of it. So Peter speaks of someone in Babylon that

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is saluting the saints; she is elected with them, and one can discern that it implies the loyalty of love to Christ, as Paul says, "I have espoused you unto one man". 2 Corinthians 11:2.

I am continuing now to speak to the sisters, endeavouring to arouse loyalty so as to give them renown in the testimony, to create the thought of renown in their hearts. For exploits are due in heaven, and it is due that the sisters should do exploits at the present time, the exploits of love. So, as I was saying, Peter is speaking of one in Babylon who salutes the saints; she is in Babylon, and she is elected with the saints and she salutes the saints. What can we do, if we think of things rightly, but link up this sister, who is elected with the saints in Babylon, with the teaching of Peter as to the sisters at the present time, so that our testimony should rise above the ordinary level of sisters' work. I know very well that in this country many of the sisters have to do rough work such as they have never done before; it is a humbling thing to have to do it, but at the same time love can do exploits in these circumstances, and it is an opportunity for the sisters.

I now bring forward John's elect lady, whoever she was; she had children and they walked in the truth. She was not an ordinary sister. She belonged to the nobility, if you please, as brothers do, as the nobles of Israel, for instance. The brethren are signalised by exploits in their service of love; why not the sisters? Why should so few be signalised in testimony publicly? That is the question to be raised in every sister's heart, as to why things are not going better with us. So Peter thinks of the sisters and he speaks of the hidden man of the heart. It is a question of the place that Christ has inwardly; not simply by profession but inwardly; and that hidden man of the heart is to be put on as an ornament in the presence of their husbands so that the husbands may be gained. How many husbands need to be saved! I know very many, and the obligation is put on the wives to gain them, and

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to save them by their holy and pure conversation, 1 Corinthians 7:16. It is a question of doing exploits in the family so that the husbands are gained. They are to be adorned with the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit which in the sight of God is of great price. It is valued up there! Sarah is the example brought forward; perhaps the most honoured woman in the old testament; she is brought forward among the holy women, for there were others.

It is on my mind to say a word of exhortation to the sisters, if they will hear it, that there may be this holiness, and this pure conversation, and this ornamentation, so as to win the husbands, to secure them for the assembly, and to secure them for the levitical services that are so needed. So that the sisters and the brothers are working alike for the promotion of the assembly, Christ and the assembly. What has come before us of late, is how Abraham had the thought in his heart that his son should have a wife. A right thought, but then what about the relation of the proposed husband? The relation Abraham had in mind was a holy, pure relation, a right strain in the family links coming down the ages in the testimony. That is the idea; it originated with Abraham, the head of the believing family and the other members of the family come in as brethren. So you have in Genesis 22 Abraham's brethren, and then Rebecca standing out as a unit in testimony; she is not doing anything, she is just mentioned by the Spirit of God in testimony. We have to wait and see what will develop, and chapter 24 tells us what does develop, as a result of Abraham's concern about his son. In chapter 22, we learn that he offers him up, he offers up his only-begotten son, and heaven speaks to Abraham and swears to him, as much as to assure him that Jehovah appreciates what he has done. It is God's appreciation of the faith of the patriarch, and the second time there is the voice from heaven, and He swears to Abraham, "I will multiply

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thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies". Genesis 22:17. The promises to Abraham are established by an oath, that "by two unchangeable things, in which it was impossible that God should lie, we might have a strong encouragement". Hebrews 6:18. God would have His servant, the great father, established in the faith of his heart as to the line of the sister Rebecca. This is most important, if, as I said, the sisters are to gain their husbands. That is the last word I want to stress now; they are to gain their husbands, according to Peter, 1 Peter 3:1.

In this second epistle of John he says: "The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not I only, but also all who have known the truth; for the truth's sake, which abides in us, and shall be with us to eternity. Grace shall be with you, mercy, peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. I rejoiced greatly that I have found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received commandment from the Father. And now I beseech thee, lady, not as writing to thee a new commandment, but that which we have had from the beginning, that we should love one another". 2 John 1:1 - 5. You see what I am coming to now is the beginning, what was established in Christ and in the apostles at the beginning, and this lady is to be brought into that. It is supposed that someone comes to her not bringing the doctrine, and the apostle says, "See to yourselves, that we lose what we have wrought, but may receive full wages. Whosoever goes forward and abides not in the doctrine of the Christ, has not God. He that abides in the doctrine, he has both the Father and the Son. If any one come to you and bring not this doctrine, do not receive him into the house, and greet him not". 2 John 1:8 - 10. Now you see this lady, as I said before, was no ordinary sister; she is an extraordinary sister, and she has a sister who is linked

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up with her; they are linked together in John's mind. The Lord had linked up two together before, John and His mother. John is an outstanding brother as to his conception of sisters, and their qualities.

These matters are a challenge to every sister here as to faithfulness, as to acquiring something for heaven. We have already spoken of the memorial which Cornelius built up in heaven, before he had the Spirit; but now I am speaking of sisters building up something for heaven, building up a reputation, a dignity, a title, as it were; the titled lady is in heaven. Pardon me for stressing the use of the word so much, but I am stressing dignity and what belongs to the assembly. All these terms must eventually merge in the assembly, and the idea of lady, that is a sister who does exploits, is among them.

I urge this now, especially as to bad doctrine. There is no necessity that the sisters should leave if matters of doctrine taught are looked into; sisters should be there, they should be thoroughly in the thing. Here is a sister who is committed to discipline. She has a house; she has children who walk in the truth; and someone comes to her house, and perhaps sits down at the table, but she discovers that he does not bring "the doctrine of the Christ". 2 John 1:9. Now John says, Do not bid him God-speed; do not receive him into your house. We are to look into the doctrine; the question of doctrine is to come up at once. You say, It is for the brothers. It is not only for the brothers, it is for the sisters also. The lady here is a sister; she is not merely a sister, she is a spiritual person, and she is reliable. John can trust her in relation to the doctrine, the doctrine of the Christ. If anyone comes to her and she knows that he does not bring that doctrine, she will not ask that man in, she will shut the door on him. John is telling this lady and her children to see to it that if anyone comes with bad doctrine, they are not to let it pass, not to harbour it at all. Look into it and

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challenge him, and if he is holding it, do not let him into your house.

Now I quite admit that these are strong words, and perhaps words that will arouse some wonder in your minds; that may be so; I can well afford to leave it. But I am endeavouring to establish, and to stir up in the sisters' hearts, the idea of the hidden man and loyalty to Christ; that they may stand firm in view of a memorial in heaven, a title in heaven that will remain with you for having been loyal to the Lord Jesus, loyal to the doctrine He came here to establish and maintain. So John rightly refers to "the children of thine elect sister"; 2 John 1:13; there is a group of them, a group of sisters who had children and they love the truth. It reminds me of Mary and Elizabeth in the hill country of Judaea; the beautiful picture that Luke alone gives us. They were about to be mothers. Elizabeth was to be the mother of John the baptist, and Mary was to be the Lord's own mother, and they are signalised in the hill country. What times they must have had in that bill country as their souls were full of that wonderful light that had been brought to them! Mary could say, "My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour". Luke 1:46,47.

So it is, dear brethren, that the sisters have a great field opened up at the present time; the brothers have too, but I am now concerned to bring out this matter of title amongst sisters, corresponding with the elect lady and her children. The love of the truth is there, and the love for one another too, in the two sisters and in their children; the love of the truth amongst them. What a circle!

May God grant that there may be such circles abounding amongst the brethren, holy women who are true, and their children, who are brought up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord!

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THE GOODNESS AND SEVERITY OF GOD

Hebrews 2:1 - 4; Hebrews 3:7,8; Hebrews 6:4 - 6; Hebrews 9:6 - 8; Hebrews 10:14 - 22

I have in mind, dear brethren, to speak about the Holy Spirit as seen in the epistle to the Hebrews.

The passages I have read all refer directly to the Holy Spirit and we shall see that they all treat of the goodness and severity of God. The three passages read first treat mainly of the severity of God: they treat also of the apostate tendencies of the people of Israel, and the Jewish christians in the early days. Those in chapters 9 and 10, afford opportunity to consider the grace of the activities of the Holy Spirit in Hebrews. First I would allude to chapter 1 of the epistle as affording a beautiful presentation of the Person of our Lord Jesus Christ. The whole chapter is taken up with a presentation of Himself. Moreover, the quotations given in the chapter, which is almost entirely made up from the old testament scriptures, are quotations generally from the words of the saints, as if God would associate His people with the glory of His Son; a happy employment indeed, and one that shall not be denied to us eternally. The Psalms yield, I may say, nearly all the quotations in the first chapter, and we are thus reminded of how God regards the productions of His people, and what they say; especially what they say poetically; for, of course, the Psalms are poetry.

So we are thus brought into relation with God regarding His Son, in eulogising His Son. He is worthy of it, and any tendency to cast a stain, or discredit on His name is resented in heaven, resented by the Father and by the Holy Spirit. So it is happy that the saints are brought in, in this wonderful chapter, relative to the glory of the Lord Jesus; His glory as Man, but His glory as God too, for He is "over all, God blessed for ever", Romans 9:5.

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It seems to me that any examination of the epistle can but fail save as we bear in mind the glory of the first chapter, derived from the sayings, as under the power of the Holy Spirit, of the saints of God, holy men of old speaking as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Well now, chapter 2, as I said, is severe, but I bring it forward, especially because of the young people; most here are in that class, and it is important that they should be encouraged, and, perhaps, admonished, for the days are short. We read in Luke 9 of the days of the Lord's receiving up, but now the days of the saints' receiving up have come, and the young people need to be ready. They are exposed to the influences of the world, and this epistle is intended to help them, as I shall seek to show, by presenting the goodness of God, but the severity of God too. If we enjoy the goodness, we must not shrink, if needed, from having to bear the severity of God. The apostle says, "Behold then the goodness and severity of God: upon them who have fallen, severity"; Romans 11:22; meaning the Jewish nation. They were held in the mercy of God at first, as we learn from the epistle of James and other scriptures: they were held through the patience of God who regarded them as His people. God would go to the full length of regarding them as His people until apostasy sets in. God is similarly patiently waiting on christendom, for the apostasy has already come: already there are many antichrists, and the apostasy has begun; but nevertheless God is waiting till the last moment in patience. He waited on the Jews, so James addresses them as God's people, as "the twelve tribes", James 1:1. A critical analysis humanly would not admit of it, but God knows better than the severest critic; and so He retained His people to the last, until all became hopeless. So the Lord says, "But when ye see Jerusalem encompassed with armies, then know that its desolation is drawn nigh", Luke 21:20; and the Jews were to be scattered among all

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nations. That was the divine decree, and it has taken place in this very dispensation in which we are, it is the severity of God, even to the extent of scattering the Jews and exposing them to the cruellest treatment at the hands of the gentiles. God would have us to pay attention to these things, because He says, "upon thee goodness of God, if thou shalt abide in goodness"; Romans 11:22, that is the principle of the passage; goodness will fail and severity will come in immediately, severity on the gentiles, and on ourselves.

So, as I said, the young need to be warned, because our God is said in this epistle to be a "consuming fire"; not simply God as such, but "our God"; that is, the believers' God. "Our God is a consuming fire", Hebrews 12:29, and hence the warning for the young, and the danger anticipated lest we should "fall away", as it says: "For it is impossible to renew again to repentance those once enlightened, and who have tasted of the heavenly gift, and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God, and the works of power of the age to come, and have fallen away". Hebrews 6:4 - 6 Now some of you may be questioning in your minds as to how a person could be so described. I shall come to that presently. I mention it now for the young, so that we may awake to the danger of falling away. As the writer again says in chapter 10: "if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him". Hebrews 10:38. It is a remarkable expression. The speaker refers to his soul, not simply to his mind, but his soul, the most feeling part of a person; "my soul shall have no pleasure in him". Hebrews 10:38. So God is warning us. He is willing to go to the very extremity, as I said, in goodness and patience, but at the same time, the time comes when there is no pleasure, and a person drawing back is left to the deserts of his apostasy.

Well now, we have in chapter 2 the first passage that treats of the Holy Spirit; in chapter 3 there is a similar passage, and in chapter 6 a further passage, and one

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more severe than any. I intend briefly to run over those three passages so that we may see how the goodness of God and the severity of God are combined in the exhortation. First as to what had been heard, the writer says, "Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip", Hebrews 2:1, or "we should slip away", as it reads m the New Translation. "For if the word which was spoken by angels was firm and every transgression and disobedience received just retribution; how shall we escape if we have been negligent of so great salvation; which having had its commencement in being spoken of by the Lord, and has been confirmed to us by those who have heard him"? Hebrews 2:2,3 Now, you will observe, that the speaking here is by the Lord, not by the apostles. Indeed the epistle opens in this way: "God, having spoken in many parts and in many ways formerly to the fathers in the prophets, at the end of these days has spoken to us in the person of the Son"; Hebrews 1:1,2, that is to say, God has approached us in the most tender and compassionate way, in that the gospel has come through the Son, not simply through the apostles, but the Son. He hath "spoken to us in the person of his Son". Hebrews 1:1,2.

If any confirmation were needed to help individuals as to doctrine, the apostles were employed, of course, because we are told that the converts persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, but the speaking according to this epistle is by the Son; and one would appeal to all, especially the young people, as to the tender sympathies of the Son of God. The apostle Paul said, "God", "was pleased to reveal his Son in me", Galatians 1:15,16. That is, not to me, but "in me": the inwardness of it is indicated, and the love of God, so beautifully expressed to Paul, is to be seen and admired in his gospel. But then it is not even Paul here, although he is the writer of this epistle, undoubtedly, but he is not the speaker; the Lord is the Speaker, the Son of God is the Speaker; and hence the terribleness of the judgment

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falling upon anyone turning away from the Son of God that Person so delineated in chapter 1, as I said, from the speakings of the saints. His glory shines there, but the speaking that the Hebrews heard first was from the Lord Jesus Christ, from His own lips, confirmed of course, by the twelve apostles, but the Lord Jesus Himself was the Speaker.

I turn to this passage, because I wanted to say something about the coming in of the Holy Spirit, how He comes in in these last days; how, as it were, He stresses Himself, so that the Spirit, as I said, is mentioned in these five passages, the first three dealing severely, the second two dealing in grace. Now this passage says that the Lord Jesus was the Speaker, so that all who heard the gospel heard the Lord Jesus. He says Himself that He had not gone over the cities of Israel; that was, at that particular time. He said, "I must needs announce the glad tidings of the kingdom of God to the other cities also", Luke 4:43, as if it must come to them in the grace of the Son, the affections of the Son. Then, if any confirmation was necessary, well, there are the apostles; for the Lord was armed with the apostles. You will understand the word armed: I am not using it as a military word, but in the sense of having them by Him in His ministry. You will find, for instance, in coming to inaugurate His supper, "the twelve" were with Him; and then again, "the apostles" were with Him. He Himself distinguishes between "the apostle" and "the twelve", "the apostles" referring to authority and "the twelve" to administration. He was therefore armed, so to speak, with the twelve, and so here. What He said was confirmed by them, but the things that were preached to the Jews were from the Lord's own lips. Hence, "how shall we escape, if we have been negligent of so great salvation; which having had its commencement in being spoken of by the Lord, and has been confirmed to us by those who have heard; God bearing besides, witness with them to it both by signs and wonders, and various acts of power, and distributions of the

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Holy Spirit, according to his will"? Hebrews 2:3,4. The distributions of the Holy Spirit are contemplated here, and the twelve were those that are alluded to. The distributions of the Spirit go on; they are going on now. One continually thanks God for the number that one observes who are able to minister to the saints. It is a question of the distributions of the Spirit. And so the importance of making way for the Spirit, because although the Spirit does not mention the word apostles here, He mentions those that have heard the Lord, and that they had confirmed what He said, and that they were partakers of the Spirit.

The Spirit is coming into peculiar prominence at the present time, since as far back as forty years I would say. Those of us who have been here all these years will observe how the Spirit of God has been acquiring a place, and how mere officialism, involving tides, is either disappearing or receding. The Spirit of God is to have the place, it is His dispensation; it is the day of the Spirit. John said of the Lord, "the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified", John 7:39. But now He is glorified, and this epistle makes much of the Spirit, not mentioning apostolic names at all, but mentioning persons as receiving various distributions of the Spirit. It is important for us to make way for them, and to pray for them, so that we may get the good of the Spirit through those whom He has constituted ministers -- ministers of the truth. Here they confirm the Lord Jesus; that is the point, that all ministry must be confirmed either by the Lord's own words, or by the Scriptures; but they confirm what the Lord said, not adding more. The Lord's words were confirmed by those who heard Him, and then those who had received the various distributions of the Spirit.

What I am stressing is the importance of recognising those who are gifted by the Spirit, able to minister the truth, able to confirm what the Lord said, and in a

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secondary sense, able to confirm the whole of Scripture; because all Scripture is inspired of God, and "profitable for teaching, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness", 2 Timothy 3:16. The ministry of the Spirit is of the last importance to us, but as I said, as confirming what the Lord said. What the Lord said must be the last word. Paul is taken up to complete the word of God; that is another matter, but that does not mean that the Lord did not have to say to him too, because he was taken up by the Lord as "an elect vessel", the Lord says, "to me", Acts 9:15. So that confirmation of what the Lord said is furnished in this way, and then the distributions of the Spirit in these persons; and then the warnings, the warnings as to what we have heard, dear brethren, what we are hearing; and let us be sure, that what we are hearing is the truth, that it is simply confirmation of what the Lord said, or of what the Spirit has inspired in the Scriptures. These are clear tests, and we must abide by them, or we shall go wrong. Hence, as the word says, How shall we escape, unless we take hold of or recognise, what we have heard?

Now I go on to the third chapter, because of the danger of hardening our hearts; "harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness", Hebrews 3:8. That is another matter, hardening our hearts. We have already had it today. It is a question now of the heart, not the soul. I have been speaking of the soul, but now it is the heart, hardening it against the truth. The warning here is, "Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness". Hebrews 3:8. That is the second point, the importance of hearkening to the ministry, the importance of hearing, and then keeping our hearts soft instead of hardening them against the ministry. "Even as says the Holy Spirit", "Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation". Hebrews 3:7,8.

And then we come to the sixth chapter, which is the most serious of all. The word is: "For it is impossible to renew again to repentance

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those once enlightened, and who have tasted of the heavenly gift, and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God, and the works of power of the age to come, and have fallen away, crucifying for themselves as they do the Son of God, and making a show of him", Hebrews 6:4 - 6. Now this is clear apostasy. We are told that the persons alluded to have been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God. Well, you say, what more? Well, that is the most serious matter, that they are apostate in spite of all that, and it is impossible to renew them to repentance. You may say, Are there such people? There certainly are such people. It is not for anyone of us to pick them out and name them; the point is that they exist; that is to say, persons who have been enlightened. I suppose everyone here has been enlightened; and then has tasted of the heavenly gift. Think of the preciousness of what is spoken of here, being enlightened and tasting of the heavenly gift, and then of the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come! Who here can claim exemption from these privileges, or who can hide behind them, if he is not true to what they mean, or if he is not sincere in what they mean? If such persons fall away, it is impossible to renew them to repentance. How serious all this is! Speaking of oneself, one wonders whether one conceives the seriousness of this, of the apostasy that has set in. The things stated here are what every one of us would testify to, if we spoke sincerely; they all refer to every one of us, I would say. We are enlightened by the gospel, tasting the good word of God, partaking of the heavenly gift, and of the powers of the world to come. I am seeking to point out the seriousness of the matters mentioned by the Spirit of God in this remarkable epistle to the Hebrews; how the apostasy has set in, and actually exists at the present time.

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You may say, 'How can this be designated of persons who are really christians?' It is designated of persons who are nominally christians; they are not really christians. You may say, 'How can they taste of the heavenly gift and be made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and taste the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come? how can they be enlightened?' Well, let each one of us examine himself. We are being tested now as to the reality of our christianity, because we have come to the parting of the ways in the days of apostasy that have set in, and let each examine himself as to where he is in all these matters, being enlightened. Who can say here that he is not enlightened, enlightened by the gospel; the blessed Spirit of God has been operating all these years since we have been on the earth. And then partakers of the heavenly gift, namely the Spirit of God. You say, 'Well, how can that be?' Is He not here tonight? May not one be in this audience tonight, and partake of the blessed activities of the Spirit of God in this hall? He is here; He has been here all day, and anyone here, if he is at all sincere, or in his right mind, is partaking of the heavenly gift. It is all around you: you are breathing it. The reality of the presence of the Spirit of God is here: you are breathing it, as it were, and yet you may fall away: there may not be a spark of life in you. "The good word of God", Hebrews 6:5, too. You may say, 'I was converted', and so forth, and yet it may turn out that you were not genuine, because the good word of God was preached in your ears, and possibly you made confession of it, but you may turn away: you may not be sincere: you may turn out to be unreal, and eventually you may become apostate. Hence the writer says, "it is impossible to renew again to repentance those once enlightened", "and have fallen away". Hebrews 6:4,6. Hence I would say to the young here to be on your guard, because the same thing may happen. I hear almost every day of young people turning away, and giving no real excuse for it at all. And yet they

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cannot deny that they have heard the word, the real preaching of the word of God, and have tasted of the heavenly gift; have tasted the liberty that belongs to the children of God; and the powers of the world to come, too, the powers by which people are converted; you have tasted of that, too. You can tell, perhaps, of someone who was converted, and speak well of him, and yet your own state is that you are not converted at all; you are not real. Therefore the seriousness of the word here: "it is impossible to renew again to repentance"; Hebrews 6:4, that is to say, your day is finished, your time is over.

You will understand that I am not endeavouring to be unduly severe, but I am speaking of the truth. I am speaking of the passages in the epistle to the Hebrews that speak of the activities of the Holy Spirit. I am speaking of the Holy Spirit, and I am speaking, too, of persons who have been enlightened by the gospel, and have tasted the good word of God, and have been made partakers of such things in a meeting like this, in which the Spirit of God is, and of the powers of the world to come; and yet it may have to be said of you, that "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still", Revelation 22:11. Now that is a most solemn thing, and I mention it, because there are so many young people here, that they may be warned as to these things, which can be truthfully said of persons who are now in the world enjoying themselves in the pleasures of sin for a season. It may be that once they enjoyed the meetings, the fellowship of saints, the reading of the Scriptures, the preaching of the gospel, and were conscious of real power in the meetings, and yet they have turned away; alas, turned away from the saints, turned away from the Lord, turned away from the Spirit, turned away from God; in a word, become apostate! These are things that are current. It is not a question of prophetic things; they are current at the present time. The devil has a great hold over people, over young people, and they are slipping away, and this scripture has

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come to my mind as a necessity to present to you today so that you may be saved from such a case. "It is impossible", it says, "to renew again to repentance". Hebrews 6:4. As I was already saying, quoting Revelation 22:11, "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still". That is an ironical statement, as if God would say, 'You have chosen filth, and the time is past for you: there is no hope for you!' I could not pick out persons and say that what I am saying is true of them. I am just speaking of the facts mentioned here, and I know these conditions exist, and with many, who were once walking in the truth. God is saying to us, that He is not to be mocked, and that He is a consuming fire.

At the same time, real christians can say, He is our God, and He is waiting upon you. I am not contradicting what I said a moment ago. Your day may not have come. I could not pick out the persons and mention them: I could not do that. I am speaking of what the scripture says, that there is such a thing as a person giving himself over to filth, and God says, 'If you are one of them, remain in it;'. "Let him be filthy still". Revelation 22:11. Someone here, perhaps, has not gone so far, and what I am saying is to save you, because you may go that length, if you continue on the present line. Well, I am saying that God is gracious nevertheless, and the next two chapters, Hebrews 9 and Hebrews 10, are to encourage our hearts, and build us up in the truth. The Spirit of God is here, and remains here, and remains as the Spirit of God. He is not here for judgment, nor is the Father set for judgment; all judgment belongs to the Son, and the Son is not on the judgment throne yet. So all is well in that sense. There is hope for everybody, save those to whom I have already alluded, and I cannot name them. But God is God as revealed in Jesus; and Jesus is Jesus, as revealed by Himself; and the Spirit is the Spirit, as revealed, too, by Himself. So it is all grace for the moment, provided that the work of God is with you. The Spirit is here and ready to help.

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The first word I would say as to chapter 9 is: "Now these things being thus ordered, into the first tabernacle the priests enter at all times, accomplishing the services; but into the second the high priest only, once a year, not without blood, which he offers for himself and for the errors of the people: the Holy Spirit showing this, that the way of the holy of holies has not yet been made manifest, while as yet the first tabernacle has its standing". Hebrews 9:6 - 8. That means, that there had been a time of prohibition; the door into the holiest was shut. That is spoken of here, and the Holy Spirit is signifying that, in what He says. So we have the types brought before us, and the types are part of the subject of ministry at the present time. We who are engaged in the ministry would be in a very poor way if we did not have the types to minister from; the books of Moses; and then if we did not have the prophetic word to minister from, the prophets; and then if we did not have the Psalms, the books of Psalms; but we have them all; therefore the richness of the ministry. The difference between the present time and the past time is, that the past time was marked by prohibition, when the way into the Holiest was not made manifest; whereas now it is, and that leads me to Hebrews 10:14: "For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also bears us witness of it for after what was said: This is the covenant which I will establish towards them after those days, saith the Lord: Giving my laws into their hearts, I will write them also in their understandings; and their sins and their lawlessnesses I will never remember any more". You may say, 'That is not the same as you have said already'. It is not, because I was speaking of the severity of God, a point that is stressed in this epistle, but now I am speaking of the goodness of God, and "the goodness of God leads thee to repentance", Romans 2:4. Whoever you may be, even though you may not have gone all the way, but you are

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inclined to go the way of the world, or to give up the truth, inclined in that direction; you are thinking it over, may be, and the goodness of God is here tonight to stay you, to block your way, so that you may remain with the Lord, so that you may remain with the brethren, remain in the good things of God, remain in the enjoyment of the goodness of God. It is blocking your way. God is God, as I said, and these verses were written by the Spirit of God, as well as chapter 6, in which there is no hope at all; it is one of the most solemn scriptures that I know of. There is no hope for "it is impossible to renew again to repentance those once enlightened, and who", "have fallen away"; Hebrews 6:4 - 6, they are absolutely without hope, and that in this very dispensation in which we are.

Now in chapter 9, the Holy Spirit is showing things, meaning, that He is not hiding them from us. He is showing them to us, and the showing comes out through the ministry; through our Bible readings, and our addresses, and so forth, by men who are fitted to serve in this way. It is the time of showing things; that is chapter 9; "the Holy Spirit shewing this, that the way of the holy of holies has not yet been made manifest". Hebrews 9:8. That was shown, but now we have the fact that it is made manifest, and chapter 10 says, that if we have any sins and we are believers, God does not remember them any more. It is marvellous as over against chapter 6, but, you see, we have to do with God, and He is still God, and the Spirit is still the Spirit, and Jesus is still Jesus, and forgiveness is still forgiveness. So that if there is a spark of life in you, a spark of the work of God in you, there is hope for you. If you are at all minded to give up, listen to the words in these remarkable chapters, firstly in this ninth chapter, in which things are shown to you. Turn round and look at the things that the Spirit is showing to you. He is showing them through the gifts. He is here to do that, to guide us into all the truth.

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Secondly, in chapter 10 the Holy Spirit is speaking; "For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the sanctified. And the Holy Spirit bears us witness of it for after what was said: This is the covenant which I will establish towards them after those days, saith the Lord: Giving my laws into their hearts, I will write them also in their understandings; and their sins and their lawlessnesses I will never remember any more". Hebrews 10:14 - 17. The Spirit of God is saying that, saying it now: it is in the present tense.

If there is anyone here in any way discouraged, or minded to give up, turn round and look at this scripture. It is for you. The Holy Spirit shows things in chapter 9; the holiest was not open there, but it is now in chapter 10, and there is forgiveness of sins. The Spirit of God is saying at this very minute, 'Your sins and iniquities God will remember no more!' I think that is grace. If I were asked to spell the word grace in the types, I would say this is it. God says, the Holy Spirit says, "and their sins and their lawlessnesses I will never remember any more". Hebrews 10:17. Then why should I be carrying them, allowing them to discourage me, to divert me from the truth? Why should I not be rejoicing in the great facts of all that the Holy Spirit is saying? It is what He is saying this very minute in this hall, and it is to anyone who is a subject of the work of God in any sense. But to any one who is an apostate, who has deliberately made up his mind to give up the truth, chapter 6 says "it is impossible to renew again to repentance"; Hebrews 6:4, but in chapter 10 the Holy Spirit is saying a very different thing, because He is speaking to persons in whom God is working. God is working, I am sure, in most of us here tonight, and the Spirit of God is saying to us that if it is a question of sins in your experience causing you any trouble or discouragement, they are all forgiven. 'Well', you may say, 'it is too good to believe!' And I would quote the word, "if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart and knows all things", 1 John 3:20.

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So stay with the brethren, stay with the truth, stay with the Lord, stay with the Holy Spirit, stay with the blessed God Himself. It is your portion and privilege. Why give it up?

I go on for a moment to speak of the holiest; Hebrews 10:18: "But where there is remission of these, there is no longer a sacrifice for sin"; that means, there is no need of it. Hebrews 10:19 - 22 says, "Having therefore, brethren, boldness for entering into the holy of holies by the blood of Jesus, the new and living way which he has dedicated for us through the veil, that is, his flesh, and having a great priest over the house of God, let us approach with a true heart, in full assurance of faith, sprinkled as to our hearts from a wicked conscience, and washed as to our body with pure water". That is grace. The water is there, the High Priest is there; everything is there. It is divine provision, all in pure grace for those who are subjects of the work of God; not for the apostates, there is no open door for them at all. Let no one think I am saying too much, because what I am saying is the truth: apostasy has set in, but the work of God is here yet, and God is here, and to anyone who is the subject of the work of God, I would say to you, 'Your sins are forgiven: they are not remembered at all by God', He says, "I will remember them no more"; and as forgiven, the holiest is not barred to you. It was only into the first part, the holy place, that the priests went to carry on the service of God; but only once in the year the high priest entered into the holiest; but now our High Priest is there all the time. Our High Priest is in heaven and the Holy Spirit is here below; all for us; so that, it is nothing but privilege, nothing but grace; first, as I said, in chapter 9, but the privileges that are open to us in chapter 10 are marvellous, and they are to be set over against the severity of the passages read from chapters 2, 3 and 6. I leave the word spoken that God may use it, especially to the young here.

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SUCCESSFUL SERVICE

1 Corinthians 9:24 - 27; 2 Kings 13:14 - 21.

I have read from 1 Corinthians 9, to refer to servants; that is to say, to those who preach. The idea of preaching is announced in the chapter; we have spoken of it today, and Paul, the writer, speaks of himself, as well as others; he speaks about the rights he had. Others had them too, for when we come to the Levites, they have certain rules governing them which apply to all. There were three families of Levites and each family had a certain work to do; but still in principle they were one family and they were governed by rules. So Paul is among the Levites in this chapter, as indeed we all are in a sense, we are all Levites as christians; "to each one of us has been given grace", we are told, "according to the measure of the gift of the Christ"; Ephesians 4:7. So that we may all be aspiring to do something, for all are under obligation to do something for the Lord. In Ecclesiastes we are told, "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do with thy might", Ecclesiastes 9:10; and again, in a solemn sense, "Cursed be he that doeth the work of Jehovah negligently", Jeremiah 48:10. A very solemn matter. If we do anything, let us grace the thing we are doing, as being something valuable, something worth while. However menial it may appear, we are to regard it from a heavenly point of view. So we are all in the service. The Levites were taken on, as you know, from a month old and upward, but they were only actually in the service as they reached twenty-five. Later on, in the days of David, the age limit was put down to twenty, showing how elastic in a sense the divine principles are, how they may be governed by circumstances. A babe of a month old spiritually, of course, does not do anything in the way of service, but still there is plenty of work to do for all who

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can do it. This chapter contemplates, as I said, levitical service; Paul was among the Levites. It is well to bring the great servants down to our own level, or might I say, to bring ourselves up to their level, sometimes more needed than coming down to a low level. The hyssop that grows out of the wall is not of much value; to be small in that sense is not of much value. There is a certain dignity that belongs to what is of heaven, and the Levites belong to heaven. They were set around the tabernacle, as you will remember; they served in it indeed. They were united to Aaron, they were given to him, they were very dignified in that sense; and we would never forget that, if we are serving at all, what we are doing is to be regarded in the light of heaven.

If we were as accustomed to going to heaven as we are to moving about on the earth, we would see that activity marks heaven. We should see how the Lord Jesus influenced heaven; when He went up all was aglow in holy reverence and acclaim, and that continues; there is no change; there is no deterioration in that sense. Things are kept on heavenly ground there. So that when the Lord went in all was aglow, for He was the King of glory, the King of glory had come in. "Lift up your heads, ye gates; yea, lift up, ye everlasting doors, and the King of glory shall come in", Psalm 24:9. It was a great day for heaven, and that day remains; one of heaven's days, as it were; the present time, one of the days of the ordering of heaven here below. Heaven has had a wonderful time. God extended the expanse; you will remember, that the heaven spoken of in the second day is not the heaven of the first verse of Genesis 1:1, "the heavens", "the earth", which God made in the beginning. The expanse as such is really an addition, pointing to the present time, the expansion of heaven; that is really what it is. We may talk about the atmospheric heavens, and so on, but the point is, that heaven is expanded, for God has great use for the heavens; they

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have come into great usage in the christian dispensation; indeed it is said that we are blessed "with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ", Ephesians 1:3.

So the Lord went up to the heavens; the cloud receiving Him out of their sight, but "they beholding him", Acts 1:9. It was a remarkable movement that perhaps heaven had not seen before. According to what is recorded in the book of the Acts, Jesus, having said certain things to His disciples, went up, "they beholding him". Acts 1:9. It was a movement belonging to that sphere, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. The faith period had begun, and this is the faith period. Faith understands and apprehends that the Lord Jesus has gone up and He is remaining there, according to what we are told, until the restoration of all things. The heavens must receive Him till then, however long; we have already experienced 1900 years of it, and I would say that the brethren who know it are not tired of it. It is a special time in the history of the universe, and, as I said, the expanse refers to the extension of it, the extension of heaven. We read of the "heaven of heavens", Deuteronomy 10:14, and the "third heaven"; 2 Corinthians 12:2, we have to apply our minds to this, to understand what these mean. But I am speaking of the way in which heaven is treated of in Scripture, and the fact that we belong to it; we are celestial. The book of the Revelation contemplates the celestials. The assembly is viewed there as coming out of heaven from God, as if it had always been there. I may say that there is no allusion to its not being there; as coming out, it is from God, out of heaven. You may say it had to go up there, but that is not the point, the epistle to the Ephesians does not say that, it says, we are made to "sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus", Ephesians 2:6, already. So that we should become accustomed to the matter.

Now having said so much, I return to my chapter; that is, to the Levites' position and how they disclaim rights; rights which they have legally they disclaim.

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Paul says, I have used none of these; although he is not saying but that every Levite should live of the gospel. Preachers and Levites should live of the gospel; that is to say, the apostle lays down the rule for Levites, because they could not all say what he said; they were not all so great as he was. Morally he was able to lay aside all rights as a man, even legitimate rights; that is to say, that the brethren should support him. He says that they who preach the gospel should live of it, but he says, I did not work on this line, and of course he is endeavouring to bring out what he did not do, what he avoided to claim, although he had a right to. He is not shutting out others from their rights, but he is denying himself of his rights. You may say, he had no wife, no family to support. True. It does say that Peter had a wife, and indeed we might assume from what is said that all the apostles had. Therefore Paul was not attempting to exclude them from the rights that belonged to them, but he says, I did not claim the rights, because he wanted to make the gospel costless. That is a word that should be kept in mind.

We have already accepted the idea of ministry being rendered costless to the brethren; that is written ministry. It has been the aim of those who are responsible for the circulation of the written ministry to make the ministry almost costless; at least to render it at cost price, and that is in love for the brethren. That is exactly what Paul says, to make the gospel costless as far as he was concerned. You may say, I am diverting, but I think it well to add that there is such a principle among the brethren as rendering everything as costless as possible, not to be trading with the word of God, but to make it a purely heavenly matter where self has no place at all. It is not, of course, that Paul did not receive from the brethren; we know he did, but he is writing here from a certain point of view; that he had rights is exactly what he says, but he did not use his rights. In effect what he says is, I have not used these rights at all; others may and have,

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they are entitled to do so, but he says, I have not. So he is going beyond the ordinary levitical way, following the Lord his Master, who is never said to possess money. When He had to pay the taxes, He told Peter to "go to the sea and cast a hook, and take the first fish that comes up, and when thou hast opened its mouth thou wilt find a stater"; that which was needed for the tax, Matthew 17:27. That was paid and that matter was settled quickly. There is no need of a treasury as far as the Lord is concerned, nor is there any treasury relating to money supposed in the assembly. Let there be some in it who take care of things, but the assembly is above the idea of a treasury, it is a heavenly institution.

Paul said, when he came down to the actual facts of the case, I have to attend to my body, not because it is hungry, but because I want to keep it from being inflated. I am speaking now of Levites; the need is a great one, that all of us who are seeking to do anything for the Lord, should make little of ourselves; we are to learn how to reduce; to avoid inflation in any sense; whatever I do, let me avoid making much of it. So the Lord would say, You are an unprofitable servant, and I am sure every one of us here would say "Amen" to that. We have the very best, we have cost the Lord more than we have ever made for Him. The overhead is much greater than the remuneration that the Lord receives from each of us. Yet He would say to us encouragingly, knowing "that your toil is not in vain in the Lord". 1 Corinthians 15:58. That is an encouragement for the Levites, that their work is not in vain. The little thing you have thought very little of, and rightly, yet it is not in vain. So, as I said, it is a matter of reduction, as I believe was the main thought in the passover, to which the feast of unleavened bread was added. "For also our passover, Christ, has been sacrificed". 1 Corinthians 5:7. But the feast of unleavened bread was added to it, and the idea in it is reduction. So that there should be no inflation or self-praise; no making much of what one

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does, or thinks he does, or what others say of him, but learning to eat unleavened bread. The Israelites were never to be without it.

The apostle here says, "I buffet my body". 1 Corinthians 9:27. Now I quite recognise, as no doubt all do, that he is referring to an athletic figure. It is a question of running a race, and he says, "they who run in the race-course run all, but one receives the prize". 1 Corinthians 9:24. There are other competitors for the prize, and it is a humbling thing to think that christendom has its contests; such contests where men claim to do things and so receive the prize, indeed aim at receiving the prize. But the apostle says, It is a question of whether you will be accepted. The word castaway would be an allusion to the race, but it is a very real thing to be a castaway. I know what may be said, what the Wesleyans would say, and what we would say in opposition to that, but nevertheless, the word means really a castaway, so that we should be on the keen lookout for anything in the shape of self-praise. On the contrary keep using what reduces and deflates, what keeps us small; so that there might be no possibility of ever being a castaway, for the Lord would never have us, as real christians, to have in our mind the possibility of being castaways. He would have us in the joy of our salvation always. Error often causes us to be downcast, but we must have the truth before us, that we may preach it to others, and not to be ourselves castaways.

Now preaching, of course, has a great attraction for many, especially young men. The platform is the goal, alas, if one may speak of it experimentally. The Levites work is beyond the range of the platform, so that the thing is not to make too much of preaching; I mean to say of the prominence it gives. It does give prominence, and hence we have books kept, you know, commitments made, running into months; and rightly too, perhaps. The chapter read is full of the idea of preaching, and it says, Those who preach the gospel should live of it;

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it covers them; we do not finish there, but with what I have read; that is, a preacher who may be a castaway, and the remedy is near at hand. He says, I keep my body under. That is the remedy. The athletic figure is pursued in verse 25, it says, "Every one that contends for a prize is temperate in all things". 1 Corinthians 9:25. He is not prohibitive of wholesome food, but he is "temperate in all things"; that is one of the remedies. Then he says, "I therefore thus run, as not uncertainly", 1 Corinthians 9:26, meaning, that I am always in my soul sure of my position, I can never be unsettled; in the most successful preaching or ministry I can never be toppled over, I am running with certainty, a certainty which christianity affords to those who belong to it. "As not uncertainly", the apostle says, "so I combat, as not beating the air". 1 Corinthians 9:26. That is to say, and there again it is a figure, you are aiming at something.

In these meetings the thing is to aim at something; even in our ordinary meetings, our ordinary reading meetings, as we call them, let us aim at something. It is not simply that we are reading through a certain book, a certain chapter in it, and certain verses, but aiming at something. There is something there that the Spirit would fasten on our souls, and be sure you get it. What is needed in any way, be sure you present it, that you are certain in what you are doing, for christianity is a system of certainty. The devil would make it otherwise; certain persons in christendom are uncertain all the time, the devil has made them so; their doctrine has made them so. Thank God we have the Spirit of God, and He guides us into all the truth. Then moreover there is a certainty, there is a point in the doctrine, for every week is distinctive. Every week at the Bible readings, there is something fresh for us, because we are dealing with infinite things; what is inspired by the Spirit of God; what the Spirit is operating in the gifts, whoever they may be, the Spirit is operating in them so as to accomplish something. Hence christianity is an institution of

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accomplishments. The Lord Jesus has gone up into heaven, angels and principalities being made subject to Him. The way is clear, nothing can hinder it, and He is operating down here, not in regard to the nations, but in regard to the assembly. The whole period of the dispensation is marked by accomplishments. I have no doubt that the middle ages were different; I believe there was something done however; and since the Reformation and onward, the Spirit of God has become free among the saints and there are accomplishments day by day, and these accomplishments require skill, they need ability, and hence the importance of young men acquiring skill. In the days of Jeremiah the skilled labourers were captured by Babylon; Jeremiah 24:1 and Jeremiah 29:2. We cannot get on without the skilled labourers, and it is for each one of us to be skilled, to learn how to do things, so that some end is reached in all our meetings.

Now I must go on to my scripture in 2 Kings 13. It is a remarkable passage, I have used it before many times; I mean I have used it for my own education and enjoyment and comfort. In a day of dark things, we get the greatest things, and even in a sick man, in a weak man, we get great accomplishments. "Elisha fell sick", 2 Kings 13:14, we are told, "of his sickness in which he died". It was a weak situation, but God was there. God was still God, Israel was still Israel and the Scriptures were still the Scriptures, the Holy Spirit was the Holy Spirit and He was there, operating there in Elisha. All the prophets had the Spirit; I mean to say, they had Him in the sense of using Him for their ministry, not in the sense that we have Him, because we are indwelt by the Spirit; that is another matter. David said, "take not the spirit of thy holiness from me", Psalm 51:11. That means that it could happen, but it would not happen in any of us now, for we are sealed for evermore. He that "has anointed us, is God, who also has sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts". 2 Corinthians 1:21,22. And there is no change with

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God, His gifts and calling are without repentance, Romans 11:29. We are on sure ground as having the Spirit. So we have here a suggestion of a weak state of things among the people of God, and how often it happens; not generally, but here and there in localities. It was a peculiar situation of weakness. Of course Elisha was a prophet, but still he was sick. So in David's day. David was a king, but still he was very weak on certain points, and the devil got the advantage of it. He allowed Absalom to come back, for instance, which he should not have allowed, for he was a murderer, and we are told that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. David ignored that. But Elisha had no discrepancy; he was sick, it was the sickness whereof he died. That is a matter for God. If a brother dies, the most distinguished brother, it is a matter for God. Aaron died, he went up to die, a remarkable thing; Moses went up with him and Eleazar. What a scene above under the eye of God when Aaron died! Well, that was God's will; a saint dies by the will of God, we need have no fear as to that. It is a question of the will of God, and to die by God's will is quite glorious. If a few more years pass we shall not die, but for the moment the will of God prevails and even unto death. The sickness of Elisha came on and he died.

I am going to show you how grace is prevailing, and it is prevailing this very day, in spite of our weakness and the great devastations that exist which are depressing us. In spite of all that, God is with us, and we might say Elisha is with us, the Spirit of God is with us, it may be in weak men, in sick men, but God is taking up weak men and using them. So the point is to be subject to the will of God. There are times of encouragement in these circumstances, and I believe the present is a time of encouragement. You will observe that Elisha "fell sick of his sickness in which he died. And Joash the king of Israel came down to him, and wept over his face, and said, My father, my father! the chariot of Israel and

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the horsemen thereof"! 2 Kings 13:14. Those are fine words. It is a great thing to have words at this time in the mouth of a king, a man who has power and influence, whatever he may be historically. Joash has good words. Elisha was there, used by the Spirit, but he was sick. But the Scriptures are there and the Scriptures really pointed to what Joash the king of Israel said to Elisha, "My father, my father!, the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof"! 2 Kings 13:14.

There is no need of anxiety, dear brethren. These words are good words, and Elisha valued them, he had used them himself. He might have said to the king, You have just copied me, you are repeating what I have said, but they are good words; it was respectful that the king should say, "My father, my father"! 2 Kings 13:14, to Elisha, for he was a great prophet. Elisha had said it to Elijah himself, and Elijah recognised it. Moreover it was at that time Elisha asked Elijah to give him a double portion of his spirit. Why did not the king of Israel ask that? "Ask and, ye shall receive", John 16:24, it says, but he did not; he did not even go as far as Elisha intended him to go in the use of the bow; he did not go all the way. The word to us is, "Ask and it shall be given to you. Seek, and ye shall find. Knock, and it shall be opened to you", Matthew 7:7. So it says of the king that he "wept over his face"; 2 Kings 13:14, that was quite seemly; it showed that he had right feelings, and that is what I would seek to press, dear brethren, that we have right feelings in these matters, however weak we may be, even sick. He said, "My father, my father! the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof"! 2 Kings 13:14. In the light of these words no one need fear. It is valuable, as indeed was the word of old to Joshua, "be strong and very courageous". Joshua 1:7. These words inspire strength, they inspire courage, and there is a great need of courage at such a time as this, in view of all that has happened.

It is now a time of regaining strength that is available, and we are to have it, and to know how to use it. Joash

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was told to use the bow and arrows, and he did, and the prophet put his hand on his hand. That is very beautiful, and very applicable in this hour, in these parts and generally; applicable to us as acknowledging our weakness, although in the place of power, having gift and the like, and knowing indeed that we have the Scripture and the writings and so on. But we are in a state of weakness and the grace of God is extended to us to strengthen us. Elisha put his hand on the king's hand; it says, "he put his hand upon it; and Elisha put his hands upon the king's hands". 2 Kings 13:16. That is, the action is to be Elisha's. The Lord says, "behold, I am with you all the days", Matthew 28:20, however weak we may be. The Lord, as it were, puts His hands on ours; He says, You are to do the thing. It is an important matter in our care meetings. You are to do the thing, but He will help you to do it; it is in keeping with the moment. So it says, he "put his hands upon the king's hands, and said, Open the window eastward". 2 Kings 13:16,17. You may think that I am stressing the detail, but the points of the compass are to be noted. I have spoken of the expanse already, the points of the compass are there; God is operating according to the points of the compass. He has made them, as He made everything, and He is operating for His own ends in the saints at the present time, and He is saying to us, 'If you want to do anything I will help you to do it'. It may be a weak situation, but "Elisha put his hands upon the king's hands, and said, Open the window eastward. And he opened it. And Elisha said, Shoot. And he shot"; 2 Kings 13:16,17, he did what he was told. And then it is said, "An arrow of Jehovah's deliverance". 2 Kings 13:17. The work is the Lord's, and His hand is not shortened. We are not to let our hands be slack. It is a question now of faith, and of recognising what God is ready to do at any time. Elisha acted for God and the king is amenable; whatever he may have been historically, he is helpful to the state of the prophet for the moment.

We can accomplish great things on these lines, and it

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is said, "An arrow of Jehovah's deliverance, even an arrow of deliverance from the Syrians". 2 Kings 13:17. That is to say, Syria would be overthrown. The king was obedient up to a point. So the arrow is shot, and it was the arrow of the Lord's deliverance, "an arrow of deliverance from the Syrians; and thou shalt smite the Syrians in Aphek, till thou hast consumed them". 2 Kings 13:17. Well, the sequel shows that he failed, for his faith did not go as far as that, but he did not fail to shoot. The lesson for us is, the acceptance of objective truth, and of our continuing in that, but not limiting ourselves to it. It is to be held rightly in its place, but the matter of smiting on the ground, as one has often said, is a question of power in us, inward power to smite ourselves; that is to say, you keep your body under, so as to be available to the power of God. You are not inflated with your achievements, whatever they may be, but available for the power of God, which is infinite. So Elisha said, Smite on the ground, and he smote thrice and stayed, and the man of God was wrath with him, and said, Thou shouldest have smitten five or six times. We have to learn to count in these matters -- five or six times. It is remarkable that it is not seven times; that would be more Solomonic, for the idea of seven entered into his regime; but this is a question of six, the power of God operating within creature limitations; but however limited, we are to do the work, whatever God directs. Faith would recognise the word of God and act accordingly, and the result is sure, and so it says, "Thou shouldest have smitten five or six times; then wouldest thou have smitten the Syrians till thou hadst consumed them; whereas now thou shalt smite Syria but thrice". 2 Kings 13:19. The victory would be an incomplete matter. As to ourselves we are not aiming at an incomplete end, we are aiming at an end according to God in everlasting life, the end essential for heaven; the end for God is sure. But let us not forget the subjective side as well as the objective side. The objective is in the arrow shot eastward, but the

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arrow smiting on the ground refers to myself. Am I taking care of my body? I am to keep my body under, dealing with it definitely, not allowing its aspirations and pride. The failure with Joash meant that he would only secure three victories, and that is not enough. Christianity implies complete victory. "Thanks be to God, who gives us the victory by our Lord Jesus Christ", 1 Corinthians 15:57. So the addresses to the assemblies are always to the overcomer. The overcomer is a victor; not three times, but five or six, a complete end reached.

Well, I have come to the end in this service, too; indeed I hope I have really reached it, and I think I have. I hope the dear brethren will see the importance of keeping the body under in the holy service of God. There is a great need for young and old to pay attention to the body, to keep it under, not trying to assert their rights, but giving them up. The Lord would see it, and make full recompense, if you learn to decline your rights for personal purposes.

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SPIRITUALITY IN REFINEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE

1 Corinthians 2:15,16; Genesis 32:1,24,25; Genesis 33:1 - 7

What I have in mind, dear brethren, is found in the first two verses read. The suggestion occurs to me as to why spirituality should be emphasised in that epistle, or in any of the epistles. It must be to emphasise it in the minds of the Corinthians, but also that it should be emphasised with us all; that we may be spiritual in the sense of refinement and intelligence, as indeed, it is said to the Philippians, a very different assembly from that at Corinth, "that ye may judge of and approve the things that are more excellent", Philippians 1:10.

Passing on from that, the passages read in Genesis are intended to show how Jacob serves as an example of growth, spiritual intelligence and grace. The current surrounding conditions in the world greatly tend to the very opposite of what is in mind. People are becoming accustomed to cruelty, devastation, and death; people are becoming accustomed to great doings, great things, great men. The young particularly often aim to imitate their parents, or their grandparents, which is sure to breed in the saints the same sort of thing. Looking on to the prophetic word as to anti-christian conditions, especially as the Spirit of God is withdrawn, it is difficult to conceive what these conditions will be. What we have had only foreshadows them, and that faintly, and it is a solemn consideration for the youth, and for us who are older in business, or those coming out of the Forces, for we are all apt to be governed by these great achievements and to aim at the titles entering into them. They are very attractive to the natural mind, and the devil knows it, and is preparing the schools for it, and has prepared them. So the need of the home is apparent, the

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preparatory school, I might say, for the assembly, especially as regards refinement, and intelligence, and right affections.

So, dear brethren, we see the need for discernment of everything, of all that confronts us, for we can hardly hide anything from our eyes; hence we need the instructions as to righteousness and holiness, and as to peace for "the fruit of righteousness in peace is sown for them that make peace", James 3:18. We know that the Lord, in setting out the order of His service in the days of His flesh, told His missionaries, especially the seventy, to look out for sons of peace. The seventy were to inquire in a house as to whether the son of peace was there. Perhaps they were scarce, but there were some, otherwise the service could not be a success, whereas it was a success. The seventy returned to the Lord in the spirit of success, indeed of victory, and the Lord did not deny the success, but in His communications to them He used the word rather. They were rather to rejoice that their names "are written in the heavens". Luke 10:20. In other words the concern is that we should accustom ourselves to heaven, and especially its language, so that we may not be defiled by the use of men's words expressing the spirit of the world, for we may become defiled in mind and in heart. The gathering together of saints walking in the truth in all countries, is very auspicious and fruitful too, of what is heavenly. The mingling together of brethren on Saturdays so constantly, tends to promote holiness -- righteousness too, but holiness -- and suitable conversation where we learn to leave out the natural and cultivate the spiritual.

So Jacob is freshly in my mind now; he is the third from the great patriarch Abraham. It was to his lot that the great matter of education fell; the matter of spiritual education, and to this end he was rightly married. I mention this simply to be practical. The matter of marriage must enter into all the things I have said, for

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mixed marriages are devilish. They are the devil's means of corrupting the Lord's people. The acceptance of this fact should lead to great thought on the part of parents, parents of children who are to be joined in marriage, and others too, so that the evident evil may be judged and forsaken. Any attempt to support, or polish it, is of the enemy, and tends to destroy spirituality amongst the brethren. As I said, Jacob is rightly married. The marriage question acquires a great place in the patriarchal families. I feel it is necessary to say this. The patriarchs guide us as to family matters, and what tends to damage them and what tends to preserve them. This is seen in Sarah, in regard of Hagar and Ishmael. Hence the word to Abraham, "hearken to her voice", Genesis 21:12. While Jacob was rightly married, yet in his early days the enemy thought to interfere with his father Isaac, a patriarch who deserves special consideration. Typically he is a beautiful, well known type of the Lord Jesus, who as God's beloved Son in heaven is to have a bride who is also heavenly; whose origin is of heaven. So much so, that the great apostle who had the idea of Isaac, his great forefather, said, "I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly", Ephesians 5:32. This is a theme to be in our hearts and minds in all our meetings; especially the intervals, the seasons of conversation that usually accompany them.

Isaac stands out more as a type, than a man, but he took account of Jacob's future as to his marriage, or household, and so we find in the history earlier than the chapter I read, a great deal about Jacob's natural relatives, his uncles, his aunts, his cousins and his brothers, and we all have to say to them. We cannot despise them. However spiritual we may be we must recognise natural claims. They may be a great test or snare to us, and sometimes it is so, but we cannot ignore them. The Lord did not, and it is very beautiful that His brothers and sisters, and we may say His mother,

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were safely housed spiritually ere He went up to heaven. He delicately committed His mother, who had such a place among women, to John. The Lord knows who may be trustworthy even in regard to these natural matters. So in Acts 1 in the gathering of the lovers of Christ, she was there; she was in the upper room; and one thinks of one's relatives hoping they may be in the upper room, it would be the aim of every godly man to have them there, where Christ's rights are regarded; that is, in the apostles. Thus the Lord's brethren and His mother were in the upper room where things were held intact by the presence of the apostles. It became a spiritual matter.

Jacob, as you will observe in Genesis 32, went on his way. He was a journeying man. Indeed, all the men of faith, the patriarchal families, were of that type; they were journeyers. So it is today, all of us are journeyers. "In journeyings often", 2 Corinthians 11:26, is the order of the day. On the other hand, for our comfort we are told of an overcomer of whom it can be said, "he shall go no more at all out", Revelation 3:12. That day awaits us, and it is a comfort to every one in the service in this time of unrest and discomfort, in ships, and trains, and motor cars. It is a comfort to hear we shall go no more out, but the present time is one of journeys, not as money-makers, but gatherers of the Lord's interests on earth, for He has much more than many of us imagine, and it all needs gathering and housing and caring for in every sense. Jacob was not wandering in this way. He took care of the little ones when Esau suggested journeying, saying that he would go on "according to the pace of the children". How much could they do in a day? Genesis 33:14. We have to consider their pace and not force them. So, as I said, we have here a reference to natural relatives. The previous chapter to the one we read speaks of his relations with Laban. There is not time to go into much detail, but the relations between Jacob and Laban were

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not happy. But in result they led in a right direction and they settled happily. So in chapter 31, verse 54, we read, "And Jacob offered a sacrifice upon the mountain, and invited his brethren to eat", "and Laban went and returned to his place". Genesis 31:54,55. So far, one might say, so good; certain conditions of peace are established between him and his son-in-law. These "in-laws" deserve consideration, care and watchfulness. God helped Jacob to finish up with his father-in-law in peace. And Laban departed and returned to his place. And Jacob went on his way. He is journeying, he is really journeying to Isaac, for that is spiritually the objective at this time. There is always a spiritual objective. In every meeting there should be a spiritual objective, some end to reach, not to leave things hanging in the air, so to speak, but something is to be reached; just as Jacob had Isaac in his mind.

The education he was going through was progressive; the end was to be reached. Terrible things happened in the interim, but the end was being reached. So I would seek to set us all on that line, to reach the end, the end everlasting life. Everlasting life is a great terminus, but it is not finality. The Lord Jesus is coming to meet us, as if to say, You are not to go the whole journey by yourselves. We are seated in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus according to Ephesians, but the final journey is in company with the Lord, not the Spirit. It is the Lord that comes for us. He is to join us in the final journey, and what a journey, dear brethren. What an experience of power lies before us. The Lord's supper paves the way. It is a paving of glory each first day of the week, as we partake of the Lord's supper. "Christ has been raised up from among the dead by the glory of the Father", Romans 6:4. That was the first day of the week. We may well speak of glory, "from glory to glory". 2 Corinthians 3:18.

Jacob went on his way and the angels of God met him. Our Angel in that sense would be the Lord Jesus, the

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Lord of glory would meet us, dear brethren. Surely we must think of this. "His wife has made herself ready", Revelation 19:7. That is to be understood. It is not exactly what has come out of heaven. "The marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife has made herself ready". Revelation 19:7. She is already his wife, and that speaks much, because the book of Proverbs provides for her. "Who can find a woman of worth? for her price is far above rubies", Proverbs 31:10. That is the assembly. So that she comes out first as His wife, and then as His bride. John the baptist, speaking of the Bridegroom does not say who the bride is. All he says is, "He that has the bride is the bridegroom", John 3:29. It would look as if she was left for Paul, for he is to be, as it were, the greatest servant m the house, corresponding with Abraham's servant in Genesis 24. Pardon my constant reference to him, because he fits in with what I am speaking of, namely refinement. The assembly is Paul's product, so to speak, it is he who speaks so much of her. What should we have known of her save from him? We should have known a little perhaps from the types, but we wait for Paul to bring it out. She has no sinful history viewed in that light. Eve, as she was brought to Adam, had no sinful history, as a type she represents the assembly.

But I must proceed. Jacob went on his way and the angels of God met him. We are looking for the Lord to meet us. We often speak of it, and sing of it, but one would like to realise it in some sense in ones own soul, to visualise what it will be for the Lord to come down and meet us. He will do that, not leaving it to the Spirit. So that you can understand what will happen, the resurrection first. Resurrection is not ascension. It does not take us off the earth; that is clear enough, but it is a wonderful fact nevertheless. "The dead in Christ shall rise first", 1 Thessalonians 4:16. The Lord speaks Himself of "that world, and the resurrection", Luke 20:35. He spoke of that Himself You can understand how He

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would thrill some Jewish hearers. That world and the resurrection, that world may involve more than the world to come, it will involve more, it will involve the resurrection. Christ is the first-fruits. "The firstfruits, Christ; then those that are the Christ's at his coming", 1 Corinthians 15:23. That will be a private matter, and so we may as well become accustomed to one another in a private way in our houses. "The Lord himself, with an assembling shout, with archangel's voice and with trump of God, shall descend from heaven", 1 Thessalonians 4:16. The word assembling is greater morally for it involves the refinement and glory and order of which I have spoken. The assembly comes down having the glory of God. We are to think of these things.

The angels of God met Jacob. And when he saw them he said, "This is the camp of God". Genesis 32:2. He was not abashed by the sight. Others may be and so may we, but not Jacob. He has advanced. He already met angels on his way to Padan, but now he is returning. He has more refinement, more understanding, so he names them. He says, when he saw them, "This is the camp of God. And he called the name of that place Mahanaim". Genesis 32:2. Mahanaim is plural. Jacob had more in his mind at the end of his sojourn than at the beginning, showing the kind of man he was, and how he could develop into greater thoughts. Nathanael could too. The Lord said to him, "thou shalt see greater things than these", John 1:50. He had already said great things, in saying to Christ, "thou art the Son of God, thou art the King of Israel". John 1:49. He attributed both titles to Jesus, but the Lord said he should see greater things, referring to the Son of man. We are to lay hold of greater things all the time. Now as to Jacob, God ordered everything for him in view of his education. How ready he was to lay hold of greater things. He is on his way to the greatest, and he is learning to lay hold of greater things. There is no limit to them, we learn. So it says, "he called the name of that place Mahanaim", Genesis 32:2.

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I pass on from this to verse 24. I need not say much about this, for every preacher uses it. We should not be afraid of using texts repeatedly, because they are the word of God. I refer to the passage now, not in a gospel sense, but to show how God ordered everything for Jacob's education. His wives and his children had gone over the ford, and he was left alone, and "a man wrestled with him". Genesis 32:34. That is to say, Jacob is to meet a man, such a man as he had not met before. He was thinking of Esau. Esau was in his mind, he was afraid of him. When we are afraid of the enemy we are hardly growing. It is victors who grow. The addresses to the assemblies have in view those who overcome. These are the ones who get the education. So here Jacob is left alone and a man wrestled with him until the rising of the dawn. "And when he saw that he did not prevail against him, he touched the joint of his thigh; and the joint of Jacob's thigh was dislocated as he wrestled with him", Genesis 32:25. Jacob is victorious in weakness. Jacob is the victor. God allowed him to be so, but made him weak in his victory. So Paul, when he was caught up into paradise, was in danger of being inflated and was given the thorn for the flesh. Jacob is made weaker, but stronger, he is fitted now for his journey.

I go now to the final thought in chapter 33, to show how the education went on, and how Joseph comes into view. Joseph represents Christ in type, Christ spiritually. You all remember how Jacob moved, or proposed to move back to his land when Joseph was born. He proposed to return to the home land, that is the land. That is the place to go. He is now on the way, and Joseph comes into view again, and you will observe that Jacob arranges the mothers and all the children. "He put the maidservants and their children foremost, and Leah and her children after, and Rachel and Joseph hindmost", Genesis 33:2, but when they draw near it was not according to Jacob's arrangement. This shows that we are apt to make

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arrangements which have to be abandoned sometimes. God takes the matter in hand and adjusts it. Jacob had arranged Joseph after Rachel, which was natural and you might say, Why not? But when you come to the final disposition in Genesis 33:7, it is said, "And lastly Joseph drew near, and Rachel". This is not Jacob's arrangement. I am speaking of this to show how the spiritual matter progresses, and God maintains His own thoughts, and His thoughts are always Christ first. He disarranges our arrangements, and His arrangements are always in view of Christ. Christ is never second. He takes the place of second to His Father, but at the same time says, "I and the Father are one", John 10:30. We must never forget that it is "the Christ, who is over all, God blessed for ever", Romans 9:5. God will never tolerate anything less than that. The more He thinks of us the more likely He is to change our arrangements, and to expose us in the change, hence we must be ready for adjustment if it be needed. So you will observe here, "Leah also, with her children, drew near, and they bowed. And lastly Joseph drew near, and Rachel". Genesis 33:7. Notice Rachel after Joseph. That is the way. It must be that way. If God has His way, and His mind is to go through, Christ must be first, "the firstborn among many brethren", Romans 8:29, anointed above His companions, Hebrews 1:9. In the service of God, wherever it is, Christ must be first. So here, as I said, Joseph drew near and Rachel, and they bowed themselves, but Joseph was first.

Now I want to finish with that, Joseph first in our hearts. In the future dividing of the land of Israel as recorded in Ezekiel 48, two parts are to be for Joseph; showing the place he has in the mind of God. Christ is first in the mind of God. He is always to have that place in order to frustrate every effort of the enemy. It is for us to be sure we do not put Rachel before Joseph. Keep Joseph first, and I finish with that, dear brethren, to the

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end that we may all think of this matter of refinement, of what is in mind in the early chapters of the epistles to the Corinthians. The Spirit is brought forward prominently, the teaching is to be governed by the Spirit; all our teaching must be governed by the Spirit. The word is "the spiritual discerns all things, and he is discerned of no one". 1 Corinthians 2:15. The spiritual man is first after Christ. Paul was the spiritual man and he is aiming at our being spiritual. So if any one goes wrong, and it is very distressing that those who were once with us, walk no more with us; yet if there be this deflection, the word is "Ye who are spiritual restore such a one", Galatians 6:1. The spiritual is qualified to be priest as in Leviticus. The priest is always to be there, and we can hope for recovery because of his presence. The priest is the spiritual man, he is discerned of no one. Of Abigail, David says, "blessed be thy discernment", 1 Samuel 25:33. She represents the assembly. The assembly is marked by spiritual discernment, and as we make way for the assembly, we make way for the truth. The needed recovery is at Corinth. Sometimes the recovery takes place too quickly for us, but we should be ready for it. The man in Corinth was recovered quickly, quicker than they expected, they were not alert enough. The spiritual discerns all things. The spiritual discerns the recovery, and when it comes about. May God bless these thoughts to us.

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SINGING IN THE WILDERNESS

Hosea 2:14,15; Exodus 15:1; Numbers 21:17,18

I have in mind to say something about singing, and have selected these three scriptures with a view to speaking of the first as initial to my subject, the second as arising from victory, and the third as arising from the Spirit. The Spirit is, in truth, the only proper source of service, and especially of singing. Singing is an important part of the service of God, and the Spirit is the power of it. The apostle Paul says, "I will sing with the spirit" and "I will pray with the spirit", 1 Corinthians 14:15, as if to suggest that singing is on a level with prayer and ought to be so regarded, not only because of what it yields to God, but because of what it yields to ourselves. We are enjoined to be filled with the Spirit; "speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and chanting with your heart to the Lord; giving thanks at all times for all things to him who is God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ", Ephesians 5:19,20. We are to sing to ourselves in that sense.

Now the first scripture is from the prophets, and it alludes to Israel. I have selected it because it fits in with what I had in mind, those circumstances of trouble, circumstances of sorrow, which have been in great measure poured out on the people of God, as well as on all men; but I am speaking now of the people of God. They are sharing in these matters. There is, however, the difference that Israel is here viewed as needing allurement, and other things, as I wish to show. She is evidently disconsolate, as many of us are apt to be, to say the least, and in that state we can hardly serve God, or even please God, and our scripture encourages us that there is such a thing as allurement out of these discouraging circumstances, circumstances into which we

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may have helped ourselves. So we get here in the verse read, "behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her", Hosea 2:14 or, in other words, 'speak to her heart', for that is the real meaning of the passage. One ventures to believe that we all need something like this allurement on the divine side, and a word spoken to our hearts. Then the scripture holds out hope in the condition of discouragement, for every heart knows its own bitterness, and there is much to cause bitterness and sorrow, and perhaps, regret; and so the need for relief coming to us, and that is the end in ministry; it supplies this need, it meets the situation, and indeed every exigency arising, from whatever cause, so that it is met divinely.

We have here an allusion to the wilderness, not exactly to a geographical wilderness as contemplated in the book of Exodus and the book of Numbers, but what may be a wilderness at the present moment in our circumstances, and the want of what the land yields; I mean, the land of promise. That is another thing I would stop to speak of, that in times such as we have been through, such as we are in, and such as we are likely to continue in to some extent, the Lord would remind us of the idea of promise. We have, in connection with it an oath on the part of God, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we may have strong consolation. God swore by Himself as to promise, and I would stop to speak of that as a matter of the greatest importance, that we take hold of the promises. There was no need for God to swear; there would be no need for God to swear to those who love Him. Those who love Him trust Him, believe what He says; but at the same time, as I said, we are apt to get disconsolate and discouraged, and to forget what God is to us; that He is the Same, that there is no change with Him; and so the need of being kept up by the idea of promise, and to this end God has been pleased to have

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recourse to an oath. He has a right to do that, especially if it be a means of stirring up and encouraging our weak hearts, perhaps unbelieving hearts, and so I would urge the idea of laying hold of the promises.

You remember how Abraham, when he offered up Isaac, returned to his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beer-sheba, and Abraham dwelt at Beer-sheba, Genesis 22:19. God had sworn to him just then, He had sworn to him concerning things He would bring to pass, and Abraham, as it were, said, We had better go down and live where these oaths can be made good. It is as if you were to present your cheque to God, it would be honoured at Beer-sheba. That is a most important matter, especially for the young people.

Well, now we see here how Israel was to be allured into the wilderness and her heart spoken to, then what the land yields is proposed. It says, "I will give her her vineyards from thence"; Hosea 2:15, that is what belongs to us. God, we are told, has anointed us, that is to make us distinguished and useful and dignified in what we are doing for Him, and He has sealed us; that is, has placed His mark of ownership upon us, we belong to God; and then, He has given us the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. He has given us that; what a gift is yours and mine! So the word says that her vineyards are hers. Whatever God has given us in Christ, is ours. He has given us the Spirit, the great gift of God through redemption, but also through asking. He has given it to us, and it is yours, it is mine, and so her vineyards are her own. There is much we are accredited with, which God has given to us as ours; even though it be through redemption it is gift. Even if we are not enjoying it, if we are real, God is holding it for us in reserve. And so He says, "I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope", Hosea 2:15, meaning that something has happened that is causing trouble, because Achor means "trouble", and trouble probably

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as arising from something in ourselves, some misdoing, some misdeed. But God is drawing near, as you are here to hear His word, you are in the place of gift, in the divine realm. All is different now. In a hail like this full of saints, our presence involves the divine realm, God's realm, where are the saints of God, and the sense of His giving, His benevolence, His faithfulness, His forgiveness, all these things belong to a place like this. The whole matter is changed.

You all remember how the Lord Jesus came to the disciples where they were. In John 20 they were in the upper room, and He came to them, and so we are here, a good many of us, and He comes here, He has come. And so it is a divine realm where the most blessed things are current. You are conscious, that you are in the divine realm, not simply that things are said by someone, but that what is of God impresses the mind and heart; and so we may use such an expression as, "It is good we should be here". Matthew 17:4. God loves to have us, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, but being together as we are now. So, as I was remarking, He says, "I will give her", "hope". Hosea 2:15. I believe hope is the scarcest thing amongst us. Even love is more plentiful, or more to be felt than hope. You say to me, Well, faith, hope, love, the greatest of these is love; but, notwithstanding the greatness of love, I venture to say that hope is scarce amongst the brethren.

Israel has got what we spoke of; that is, trouble; and who of us is not aware of trouble that is his own, something in which he has part, something which he has caused? Well, God is saying to us, I will give you hope to lift you out of that; I will turn it into hope! So He says, "I will give her", "the valley of Achor for a door of hope". Hosea 2:15. A door is something into which we enter, and Achor, this trouble, is here viewed as a door into hope, and we know that "hope does not make ashamed". Why? "because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit", Romans 5:5

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the blessed Comforter here for everyone of us. Whatever it be, these matters that I am speaking of, whichever of them it is or all of them, the Holy Spirit is here to help us in regard of them. The terrible things that have happened are calculated all the time to affect us. There is much on which to reflect; there is much involved, and there are also the losses incurred, which are colossal. I need not say that. Those here know better than I what are the losses that are being incurred by all men, and by the brethren, these losses bringing about distress, maybe, depriving us of our joy, depriving us of our song. "Will a man rob God"? Malachi 3:8. Well, he may do it because of his own poverty, and God is aiming, in what I am saying, to bring about better conditions. I have no hesitation in saying that my effort tonight is calculated to better the conditions amongst the brethren, including myself, of course, and to encourage hope. Things might be far worse than they are.

So the trouble is turned into hope, because it is God's matter. God has done it. He would say today, 'It is My matter; I have done this'. That makes a great difference. Who could have done it but God? You may say, The devil had to do with it, but even with Paul, though the thorn in the flesh was from the devil, the Lord had sent it. I say again, Who could have brought about this terrible disaster in the world but God? and who could change it but God? and He has changed it in measure, but not altogether, and perhaps He will not change it. Perhaps we need to carry it, the brethren in each locality, and He is telling us that He gives us the door of hope, that the very sorrow, the very trouble is to be a door of hope. Following on that we have in verse 15: "And she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt". Hosea 2:15.

Now I am going to link on the prophet with Exodus, but I do urge that "hope does not make ashamed, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts" Romans 5:5 (a

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remarkable expression) but not any further. The abroad refers to our hearts, not other hearts, and no other organs in us either. The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts, and by no less an Agent than the blessed Spirit of God Himself; "shed abroad", "by the Holy Spirit which has been given to us". Romans 5:5. He is ours, and that is one of His services, to keep the love of God burning in our hearts, and the word abroad refers to the limits of our hearts, and nowhere else. So that we have to understand ("he that reads let him understand" Matthew 24:15) what the passage means, and make application of it. Take it home to ourselves, as our own property, and use it.

Here in Hosea the word is, "she shall sing there". Hosea 2:15. You say, It is not the wilderness of Sinai. No, but it is the wilderness. It is called "the wilderness". You remember John the baptist was brought into the deserts, meaning that his was a desert life for the sake of the testimony, for the sake of his service. Desert is necessary, wilderness is necessary, and God is pleased, it may be, to turn our circumstances into a wilderness; and that wilderness becomes His servant, so that now she sings there, as if she was a wilderness person and could sing in the wilderness. She has been brought into the wilderness position with the power to sing in her heart; that is, you overcome the pressure of the desert.

'In the desert God will teach thee
What the God that thou hast found --
Patient, gracious, powerful, holy;
All His grace shall there abound'. (Hymn 76)

That is God, the God we have, not another God, but our God. See how He turns circumstances and brings them right to us, just what we most need. With the result that she is able to sing there. That word "there" in verse 15, covers all that is said in verse 14. One would dwell a little further on the thought of singing in the wilderness, in the circumstances that have come about

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and how God can turn them into a place of song; not the land, but, nevertheless, power known in the soul to sing. "She shall sing there". Hosea 2:15.

Now I turn to the second scripture, which is directly linked with what I am saying, and we have another adverb. "Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song". Exodus 15:1. We are not told what song Israel sang in Hosea. It was simply singing, and being able to do it in the wilderness; but here "this song" is unto the Lord. You will see, dear brethren, that I am seeking to build up something in my word so that it is all one matter; indeed, I think all ministry should thus have a definite end in mind. You marvel at the material there is for ministry, how day after day, week after week, year after year, ministry goes on. You marvel at the freshness, the variety of subjects; but it is not to be marvelled at really, because we are dealing with what is of God. God is the source of all that we are going on with. It is understood here that the time for this song came -- "this song". It is a question for each of us, how we are going to use our time so that it should yield to God, and that God should have His portion; and so, as I said, it was the time for "this song"; that is, the time of victory. Now God has granted victory. I do not mean now what has been celebrated all around, in a sense, rightly. I am speaking now of the moral victory that has come about in the Lord's people being able to suffer so much and glorify Him and carry on His service notwithstanding, and I would encourage the brethren to go on in the service and increase. The material is here for it.

Moses had to do with this song, and Miriam, and the women of Israel. Israel was equal to it; they had progressed. They had not only overcome, but they had progressed in overcoming, and were able to sing, and so it is, "Then sang Moses and the children of Israel". Exodus 15:1. So that the service of God is here, I would say, formally begun among the people of God. The question is whether

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we are joining in it. There is time for everything, and there is time for a song like this, so, in every service we have, as the weeks come round. Time belongs to God; He is the Maker of time, and He has the power to use it; He is using it now, and the Lord Jesus is using it. The servant whom He loves, speaks of "the Lord's day", so that it affords time for what belongs to the Lord. Persons are called out for the Lord, for His use, and He is pleased to use a day; pleased to use time, to select a day for His purposes, and one of His greatest lovers was "in the Spirit on the Lord's day". Revelation 1:10. He knew how to use the day, not for earning larger wages, but for the Lord; and that is the point, dear brethren, at the present time. Genesis is past, and following Genesis we find that the books of the Bible begin with "And". It means that something is following which corresponds with what has already been presented; so this song comes in; it was there, it was a production. "Then sang Moses". Now this is a song built up in words, but built up for God, and the time for it had come and it was there. Moses was there; he had to do with it. Miriam had to do with it, and others. The whole of Israel had to do with it; but I am stressing now the fact it was there.

When the first day of the week comes, and there should be a song, have we got it? It is not a ready made service we are dealing with. Christianity does not imply that. It implies that the saints are the singers, the musicians; "the instruments which I made", 1 Chronicles 23:5, said David. Christ Himself being the Chief Musician, the time for service is when the first day arrives. The question is whether we have the service. It is not a question of what we find in our books, or in the meeting-room, but what we may bring. It is a question of freshness as we sit down together, what have we? We have already alluded to what we come into in the way of discipline, as in Hosea; but the service of God results from what we have. You have a Singer in heaven; we have the Lord Jesus there and the

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Spirit here, constituting the saints as singers too, and now I am endeavouring to show that the time had come for it, because this particular song really refers to the beginning of the divine service. Not only was Israel to be delivered and have victory as entering the wilderness, and as brought out of Egypt, but the service of God should start; should be begun and continued, and, of course, we need the material for it. You will understand, that lam not shutting out the Lord or the Spirit. I am bringing Them in, but endeavouring to show you that the thing is in the saints. Especially the singing now I am dealing with, so that there is what God can use, what resounds in heaven. Let us link ourselves with heaven, for it is a question of the true tabernacle. Some of us have been speaking about the expanse in Genesis 1, which is called "heaven". God made that. God had in mind what He would have in that expanse. The devil got into it, we know, and the devil is getting in now among the brethren in measure; but that is only to prepare us to shut him out and to keep him out, to be in the Spirit as John said; that would keep the devil out. So the devil got into the expanse of God. God made it; and it was added to what was there before. The word expanse means it is something wide, affording room for the operations of God, scope for the things of God. That is the position, and song is the great matter, one of the greatest matters; and hence, as I said, when the time came for the beginning of the service of God, there was this song. "Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song". Exodus 15:1.

Well, there is much more to be said, but I have said enough to show you that there is a structure in the subject I am speaking of, and there is such a thing as the beginning and the middle and the end of it. That is the divine way. God finished all His work on the sabbath and He rested; but He was refreshed in His rest, and so God is working on these lines, looking for refreshment, and it may be in the songs of the saints, the contribution at

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any time that is available for God for His refreshment. All is to lead up to God, and so this song was the beginning of the divine service; the first song in the Bible. You may say, Well, the morning stars sang together. We do not hear of angels singing; the stars were the singers, and angels were the sayers. The saints are the singers, dear brethren. We are constituted singers, and this is the beginning, and hence the adverb "Then"; "Then sang Moses", Exodus 15:1, and not only Moses, but Miriam and all Israel. Moses and the children of Israel. It is a time of victory. However much there may have been in the way of loss that can be spoken of, and it is colossal; I admit that, but the moral result is to be seen in us. Are we any better as christians? I would say so, I am encouraged to say it, and my effort is to better things, make them better, and to encourage the brethren to go in, and go on, and go in for more, and especially on the line of song, that with which God is so pleased. As the Lord Jesus Himself says, "in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises". Hebrews 2:12. He is the great Singer, the chief Singer, our Leader, and every first day of the week is to bring out what there is in our souls, and what we can join in together, and hence this particular passage is a passage of victory. It is a song in connection with the victory of God.

I go on to the last passage. In Numbers 21, we read, "Then Israel sang this song, Rise up, well! sing unto it. Well which princes digged, which the nobles of the people hollowed out at the word of the lawgiver, with their staves". Numbers 21:17,18 There we have the suggestion of the lawgiver, and that our contributions must come under that, our singing must come under that. It is a question, also, as I said, of what we have, because the service of God is begun. We have not begun it in our day; we have come into it. Whatever we have we have come into; we do not inaugurate anything, we do not pretend to. We are persons added. Christians of the present time are added to something, and that something began at Pentecost.

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The word add is the point at the end of Acts 2. It is what was added; it does not say the assembly. We come into what was, and so as to singing, it is a question of what there is, and what there has been. It is true, that we have very little in the way of composition from the earlier days of christianity, but we have the Spirit, we have the means of continuing what there is. You find in the Old Testament this is the beginning of things for Israel. The service of God was inaugurated and others took it up. The different singers, such as David, did not inaugurate the thing. It was there. Indeed, as it is said, "The word that I covenanted with you when ye came out of Egypt, and my Spirit, remain among you", Haggai 2:5. The whole matter was there, and the whole matter is here, dear brethren; it has come down to us. The Holy Spirit has kept it; He is the custodian of everything. The Bible is with us, thank God, the truth is in it, but the Spirit of God is here in connection with the service of God; hence when we come together in assembly on the first day of the week and sit down as brethren, there is no occasion like it. The idea of brethren is confined to those who love God; "now are we children of God". 1 John 3:2. It is not what we shall be, but we are that, that is real christians. It is a precious fact, but we begin with the accepted fact that we are that, and that there is a ministry of God, and a service of God to which we are added, and it is the obligation of everyone born again to see that he also is added. Even if one has not the Spirit, he is God's and he is something; as we were saying, Cornelius did something for God; his alms and his prayers ascended up to heaven for a memorial, before he had the Spirit. You may say, You are applying it somewhat to persons without the Spirit. I am not really, for I have in mind that the Spirit is the power for everything in the full sense. At the same time, a person who is born again has something; he is "born again", but not exactly "born of God". The expression "born again" is

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an initial act of God in bringing us into the divine realm. I am speaking of what may be called initial things. They are most important. If anyone here is not born again, I warn you, you have no part or lot in the matter. The word means, born throughout from the top down to the bottom, born again in the moral sense.

So I come now to the finish; that is, to this matter of singing in the wilderness at a certain time. It is a continuation of what began in Exodus, "Then sang Israel this song, Rise up, well!, sing unto it". Numbers 21:17 The "it" is something -- the well -- and the well is a type of the Spirit, no less than that, and the Spirit is in mind, in that sense in our song. He is a divine Person, and He is worthy of our acclamation in that sense. So the song rises from the wilderness in Hosea, and to the Spirit of God in the book of Numbers, as developing the truth from the first to the last. Numbers refers to Israel as knowing how to walk and how to sing with a leader, Moses; but here it is Israel. "Then Israel sang"; that is to say, the people of God as such are singing, and they are recognising the Spirit in what they are doing. I am only going that far just to show the Spirit of God as a theme for the moment, so that He has a place objectively among the saints for the service of God. That is the position here. It is persons who have the Spirit typically who are Joining in it. I urge the thought of progressing on this line in view of what we have been through, and proving what God can be to us, and that His service can continue as from the very beginning at Jerusalem. We read in Acts 2:1, that "the day of Pentecost was now accomplishing", it was running its course, and the very breathings of God, referring to the coming in of the Holy Spirit, were felt in the upper room, and the sound filled the house where they were sitting. Christianity is to be carried on in power and freshness, on that very principle, in the power of the Spirit of God.

May God bless these thoughts to us all.

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HOUSING

2 Corinthians 5:1 - 5; John 14:1 - 3; Ephesians 2:19 - 22

I wish to speak about housing; first, housing of our persons; that is, the persons of believers, and for this I have read in 2 Corinthians 5, because it speaks of "our earthly tabernacle house" and also "our house which is from heaven", both alluding to our bodies. Our bodies in this sense are houses. God has provided for us in this way. We need our bodies in the ordinary sense for protecting us; to protect the other two parts of our tripartite beings. We need the three parts. Most believers have already lost the third, having departed to be with Christ; that means being disembodied. There is provision for that, so that we need not be discouraged; but still, it is important to bear it in mind that the most are disembodied; at the same time the persons remain; disembodiment does not destroy the thought of the persons. The apostle says, in view of this, that "departure and being with Christ", "is very much better", Philippians 1:23, so that there is no loss.

There are those, and perhaps specially the young, who naturally cling to their bodies, and God respects that. Even the Lord, in His holy desires as a Man here, said to Jehovah, "take me not away in the midst of my days". Psalm 102:24. It was not granted to Him, for He came to die. He obtained a body for that purpose, and He died, so really that He said to another, "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise". Luke 23:43. The Lord Himself recognised the fact of disembodiment. It is very touching that He should be without a body, for however short a time. It was short, for very early in the morning on the third day the Father was at the grave. He was there in His power; but He was also there in His glory, to raise

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Christ from the dead. So the Lord has gone through the whole course. It touches every heart here, I am sure, that He did. As to His spirit, He was in paradise, and the thief was in paradise too, but the Lord went first. Even the thief did not go with Him. The Lord went alone to paradise. In all things He must have the pre-eminence, even as to going to paradise.

These remarks will help in regard to what is in my mind. As to our bodies, the elder ones here think more soberly of them than the younger. The younger are considered for in the first commandment with promise. That promise is not that they should go to be with the Lord; it is, that they should live long on the earth, showing how thoughtful God is as to us in our youth. The Lord Jesus, the Messiah, was cut off and had nothing. How really He died, and how real were His feelings! So He has gone through the whole course; birth, infancy, boyhood and manhood, but He died. He died by the will of God, but it was His own thought too, for He took the body to lay it down. Yet the whole matter was the will of God, and that is a point, dear brethren, now, specially for the young here, as to the will of God; because the tenure of life is short, and yet God is not ignoring it, not even ignoring your desire to have long life. The first commandment is with the promise, not that we should have long life; "that thy days may be prolonged in the land that Jehovah thy God giveth thee". Exodus 20:12. That was the word. Faith speaks of the habitable world to come, and while the promise to the young is that their days should be long, yet I would warn them as to undue or extravagant purposes, or expectations. The better thing is reserved for us, and that better thing is not long life on the earth. God has "foreseen some better thing for us, that they should not be made perfect without us", Hebrews 11:40. That is to say, the saints of old from the beginning are waiting for us. They are waiting for the living, "we, the living, who remain to the coming of the Lord" 1 Thessalonians 4:15,

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-- because that is our hope; but those that are asleep go before us, which is very suggestive too.

Now on the first day of the week, very early indeed in the morning, we are told, the Father was there in His glory, not simply in His power with which He made the universe, although the glory of God enters into that in some degree, but the Father was there in His glory to raise Christ. Very early in the morning He raised Him, and inaugurated the first day of the week in its spiritual significance. It was the Father's doing. What a moment, dear brethren, it must have been for the Father and the Son, as They met there, the loved One coming out of the grave. I am not ignoring what I have already said as to Paradise, but the point was His coming out of the grave, for He is not seen as going into heaven until after He rose. It was a question of the inauguration of things, and the necessity for the resurrection, and for this, the Lord resuming His body; taking it in its new condition, for it was not the same condition as that in which He died. He was "crucified in weakness"; 2 Corinthians 13:4; He was raised in power. So it is a new state of things, a state of things inaugurated in power, the Father's power, the Father's glory, and the Son's power too, for the Son raised Himself -- a very important thing. "Destroy this temple", He said, "and in three days I will raise it up", "But he spoke of the temple of his body". John 2:19,21. So He had to do with the raising up, and inaugurating, as I said, of the first day of the week, the glorious day that we enter on in view of the service of God. We cannot serve God without our bodies. Our bodies are essential to the service of God, and hence we stay here, some of us for a short time, others for a longer time, but whether short or long, it is a question of the will of God and the service of God, and we need our bodies for this. When we depart to be with Christ, it will not be to carry on the service of God there. God has given us bodies, and they are called bodies of

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humiliation. We may as well accept that. The Authorised Version says "vile body", which is hardly correct according to our present use of the word, but there is humiliation attached to our bodies, and we cannot improve or alter that, by dress or by the fashions. The humiliation will stay until we die, or until we are changed by the power of the Lord; no natural adornment can erase it. We may as well accept that. Hence it is as clothed with the will of God that we are beautiful, that heaven can look down upon us, the service of God going on in us, in these bodies.

I read those verses in 2 Corinthians to remark on the "house which is from heaven". In one sense the bodies in which we die actually come up again out of the grave, though in a new condition, and those of the living that are changed are the same bodies, but changed at the coming of the Lord; so that we retain our bodies, but then there is this additional idea of a "house which is from heaven". We have "a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens". 2 Corinthians 5:1. What a thought! How uplifting it is! That is our prospect.

In John 14, the Lord was about to die. John says much more than others about what the Lord said, what we could call His dying words. His dying commandments, for they were that. Moses and Elias met Him on the mount and they spoke about His departure, "his departure which he was about to accomplish in Jerusalem". Luke 9:31 In truth it was a question of His dying; He came down from the mount to die. He went up to be transfigured, but when the transfiguration was over He was just seen as He was; "Jesus alone with themselves", Mark 9:8, the apostles and Himself He came down from the mount to die. That was what Moses and Elias were speaking of. They spoke of Him, they spoke to Him; showing how honoured they were, for He was coming down to die, and, dear brethren, that is what we think of at the Lord's supper. "This is my body, which is for you", 1 Corinthians 11:24, not His body in glory, but

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His body in which He died. His death is in mind, when He says, "which is for you". It is the communion of it, the portion we have together in the Lord as having died. Then He goes on to speak about being remembered, called to mind; that is not in His death, it is in His present state above; that is to say, He is not to be forgotten. The Lord's supper, the memorial side of it, is to keep us from forgetting the Lord, for we are apt to do that. He says, 'This do for the calling of me to mind;' the departed One, the absent One, the glorious One, but nevertheless the One that so many have forgotten, whom so many do not care about. Thus it was of old. "for this Moses, who brought us out of the land of Egypt, we know not what has happened to him". Acts 7:40. It was a small matter to them, but I hope it is not a small matter to anybody here. Do we miss the Lord? He is coming back, of course. He has been away for hundreds of years. What has He been doing? What is He now doing? Israel is not being saved, nor the nations being gathered. There is indeed the gathering together of the children of God; that is what is going on, dear brethren.

We are here today and heaven is delighted with us. We have not lost sight of the Lord Jesus. He is our Lord. We worship Him. We think of Him. We are thinking of His rights, and we hold our bodies in view of all that. He has taken His body of glory, and the Spirit of God has told us through Paul that that body of glory is the standard of ours, His own body of glory. Very wonderful! These bodies of humiliation are to be made like His own body of glory, the one He has now; the Spirit of God calls it "his body of glory", Philippians 3:21, as if there is something in the fact that He is in glory, and we are going to be there too. Glory is the great consummation of all these things, but in these bodies of humiliation we are to remember the Lord, to serve the Lord, to use these bodies for the Lord, whatever they be, old or young, they are to be used for the Lord. Our

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bodies are the Lord's; He has a right to them, not simply that they are His, as a mere abstract thought, but they are His as usable.

I emphasise that, dear brethren, and for young people especially, that whatever your bodies are, they are to be usable for the Lord. He has established a right to our bodies, even as they are; He is not despising them, He has gone through the conditions we are in; He knows conditions such as ours, sin apart, of course, for He was holy, harmless, and undefiled, and He has led the way for us as to our bodies. From the very outset, as a child of one having faith in God is baptised, he is committed to the Lord. The Spirit later comes in and takes charge, but all for the Lord, so that the body as it remains here is for the Lord. "The body is", "for the Lord, and the Lord for the body", 1 Corinthians 6:13, a very precious word! The Holy Spirit coming into our bodies makes them usable, makes them glorious, for the coming of the Spirit into our bodies makes them valuable beyond what they used to be. They are now morally glorified. I am speaking what I understand, and what I know to be so, that the incoming of the Spirit involves the glorification of our bodies in the moral sense, so that the Lord's service and the service of God is taken up and carried through by glorious persons, "whom he justified, these also he has glorified", Romans 8:30. If we are justified through the death of Christ, we are glorified for the service of God here below.

Now, there is a moral thought connected with this; it is, that our bodies are suitable, usable, every moment of our lives as devoted to the Lord, and that is what I have in mind in reading this wonderful passage: "For we know that if our earthly tabernacle house be destroyed", 2 Corinthians 5:1, meaning if we die, "we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For indeed in this we groan", 2 Corinthians 1:2, in this, remember, in the very body in which we serve the Lord, "we groan".

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Who does not know it? As old age comes on it is well to accept it. "In this we groan, ardently desiring to have put on our house which is from heaven". 2 Corinthians 5:2. What a relief, dear brethren! As to those that have gone, the millions that have fallen asleep through Jesus, the matter is not finished; they are in an unfinished state, a disembodied condition, awaiting the glorious finish! What it was to the Lord! The Father's glory raised Him, and may we not say that His glory will raise us? "The Lord himself" we are told, "with archangel's voice and with trump of God shall descend". 1 Thessalonians 4:16. What thoughts are conveyed in these words! "And the dead in Christ shall rise first". 1 Thessalonians 4:16. So that our bodies come in, "sown in weakness", "raised in power", "sown a natural body", "raised a spiritual body", 1 Corinthians 15:43,44 and so on. A great prospect lies before us. Then again, we who "are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep", 1 Thessalonians 4:15, but we shall all be changed and caught up together to be with the Lord, to meet the Lord in the air. He comes down to meet us; we go up part of the way and He comes down. It is His own way, but we go up in power. I would say, that the Spirit makes us ready, as we see in Romans 8:11, He "shall quicken your mortal bodies also on account of his Spirit which dwells in you"; so that we are all ready for the Lord to meet us in the air. I am speaking now of our bodies; we shall be ready to go up, and "thus we shall be always with the Lord". 1 Thessalonians 4:17. It is "with the Lord", because it is a question of His authority; the body is the Lord's. Another beautiful word is that "he is Saviour of the body", Ephesians 5:23, not only the Preserver of it, but the Saviour of it.

I go on to John 14, where we get the extended communications of the love of Christ. Matthew, Mark and Luke give briefer communications by the Lord on the eve of His death, but John extends them. He is the beloved disciple; so he seized the opportunity to make much of the Lord, in what He was saying before He died.

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How much he tells us! How he touches our hearts! John extends the communications of the Lord on the eve of His death, just before He suffered. The Lord says, "I will see you again". There is no idea of a long time elapsing. "I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no one takes from you" John 16:22. What assuring words! He said to Pilate, "My kingdom is not of this world". John 18:36. Pilate may have thought that He was aspiring to be a king. Indeed he wrote His superscription, "The King of the Jews", but the Lord says, "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, my servants had fought". John 18:36. It is the prolonged time of love's waiting; a kingdom in which there is no fighting, no military combat. The Lord is saying that He has the right hand in matters, whatever Pilate might say, or Herod might do, or the Romans, or the wicked Jews; the Lord is having the right of way. That is what is really meant in the long discourses recorded by John. This kingdom is not the kingdom of God, but the kingdom of the Lord Jesus, the one He has deliberately chosen in going to die. He would have a kingdom protracted, and without military combat. His servants are not to fight, and we are learning this, dear brethren. Young men are learning it; they are being made by it; I have no doubt about that. Morally they are being made by this thing. These centuries of protraction, the protraction of love, during which the Lord Jesus is waiting, though having a right to all; He will yet have everything that belongs to Him. How much there is involved in that! Nothing is left; all will be gathered up and retained above. It is all up-gathering, a housing above, and it is no less than the Father's house. Now, He says, I have been saying many things to you, but "In my Father's house there are many abodes; were it not so, I had told you". John 14:2. As much as to say, You ought to know, and you do know. "I go to prepare you a place". These are the communications of love to

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the disciples, and amongst these is this remarkable verse, "I go to prepare you a place; And if I go", "I am coming again and shall receive you to myself; that where I am, ye also may be"; John 14:2,3 it is one of the greatest communications. "In my Father's house there are many abodes" but "I go to prepare you a place". John 14:2. Who are the "you"? Our very selves. Let us take it in. We are the continuation of the persons He was speaking to. It was a question of His love for them, that the very best would be theirs. The time of waiting would be a long matter, according to what He said to Pilate, that He would have a kingdom and there would be no fighting in it. It would be a time of suffering, and hence we say a non-combatant occupation; that is what is needed to be for the Lord, but you want to be adorned in some sense as belonging to that kingdom in which there is no combat. The brethren are all constantly gaining by the exercise; it is a love matter. The Lord is saying, 'You are being adorned for Me in your service'. And so firstly there is the house of humiliation, but then the Father's house, not even what is alluded to in Luke 15. We have a house there, too, but what I am speaking of here is a house above. "In my Father's house there are many abodes"; "I go to prepare you a place". John 14:2 That is to say, the best is for us, dear brethren, and what bodies we shall have, bodies of glory! Inwardly we are sons of God; not simply children; that refers to us down here, children down here are sons up there. We are adorned there with all that belongs to sonship, in our Father's house.

I intended to say a little about the assembly as an abode for us collectively, another thought that I wish to leave with all the brethren. This collective abode, where we are so wonderfully housed, and furnished with companionship. Our companionship is in accord with what I have been saying; companions above, companions of the Lord Jesus; companions down here in the assembly.

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The Lord Jesus spoke of our having "part with me"; surely that is enough to assure us of His thoughts for us. 'My circumstances are to be yours', He would say, 'now and for ever'. So I was thinking of the assembly as a provisional condition in which we are housed together here, while we are in our present bodies. The service of God in the assembly requires that we should be thus housed collectively. We are going up collectively; we are even now raised up together and made to sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:6. Such are the persons who are housed in a collective provisional sense down here. While we are in the body we need companionship; we are to have part in the service of God, but with the companionship of the saints, the excellent of the earth. The Lord says, "in them is all my delight". Psalm 16:3. How much delight have we in the brethren? They are our companions now in suffering, but companions in service, companions in love one for another; every one of us having love. "By this shall all know that ye are disciples of mine", said the Lord, "if ye have love amongst yourselves", John 13:35. The real test now is the possession of love; love in the Spirit. All who have it are thus qualified to have part in the service of God, and at the same time to have part in companionship with Christ, because His circumstances are ours. We are really losing nothing. The promise of the Holy Spirit supplies everything for us in the meantime. So, as I was saying, the assembly is a home, and it is the thought of God that we should have a living active part in it. God so cares for us, that He gives us a house, but then the house that we get is the Father's house, the Son's house, the Spirit's house, God's house, and that is a wonderful thing, that the assembly, in the passage I read in Ephesians, is a "habitation of God". So that we are no longer "strangers and foreigners" but "fellow-citizens of the saints and of the household of God, being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets,

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Jesus Christ himself being the corner-stone", Ephesians 2:19,20. It is no less a house than God's house, that is to say, a provisional house for God in the meantime. As the tabernacle in the wilderness, so now the assembly is a habitation for God, and then it is a habitation for us too. What a habitation! We are called into the fellowship of God's Son. There is the fellowship, and companionship, and then that Christ's circumstances are ours, and God's circumstances as in His house are ours. We are brought into them. Now these are great things, dear brethren; I am endeavouring to stress them, hoping that all will take in what I am saying, so that we may see that we are housed according to God, whatever may happen; in the public circumstances of the testimony of God we are housed, all is well. In the beginning of christianity those who saw the Lord go up into heaven, from the mount of Olives came back into Jerusalem, and they went to the upper room; they did not go to the temple. What I am speaking of is the upper room in this sense; it is a provisional state, and all the apostles were housed there, and the Lord's mother was housed there, and His brethren were housed there, and others besides, and so it is open to us, to be housed by the Lord in a provisional sense here. That is my understanding of that. The upper room suggests circumstances for those of the assembly, such as are suitable for the moment. What is morally suitable to God and to Christ, and to the Spirit, and to the saints. It is due to one another as of the assembly that we should go to the upper room, and find the society that is there. The authority of Christ and the love of Christ are there, the mother of Jesus was there, His brethren are there, so that we have companions there, and all are taken care of, according to God.

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RESIGNATION TO THE WILL OF GOD

Jonah 1:11 - 17; John 21:18 - 19

I have in mind at this time to speak about resignation, and I have chosen Jonah and Peter, both in relation to God's dealings with them to bring them to submission to God's will. Jonah was a man like some of us, under commission, and he failed to carry it out. The work of God is based on the principle of submission to God's will, not on the principle of each doing his own will, but doing the will of God. The apostle Paul made much of this principle. There are many in whom there is a work of God, serving professedly, but making little of this principle of surrender to God's will, and hence much irregularity, to say the least, enters into their service. But God in His mercy takes up some of us in His service and disciplines us so that we may serve better if not entirely well, and so He took up Jonah. Jonah was destined to have great prominence in the service of God, indeed rising to be a remarkable type of the Lord Jesus, and it is within the range of every one who is serving to rise to this great privilege. Even the youngest here who is not specially commissioned may become, as he pursues the line of the will of God, if not a type of the Lord Jesus, at least a model patterned after Him, for the Lord sets Himself before us in this way, "Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me", Matthew 11:29. Learn from Me, not simply of Me, but Learn from Me. That is learning from the Lord as a model so as to become like Him in some degree, however little, because He is the model of all that God has in mind.

When Moses came down from the mount, everything was to be made according to pattern. It is thus we have the tabernacle, and it is said to be made entirely according to divine commandment, absolutely so, and nothing

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else would do for God. However much we say, and however well we may serve, unless there is adherence to that pattern we cannot please God, and we are labouring hopelessly if we do not please God. Enoch set the example of pleasing God, and if we serve in any little way according to His will we are pleasing Him in doing so, and so we rise, it may be, to be like the Lord Jesus, even as Jonah is seen typically in the chapter before us. Jonah was commissioned as I said, but he had a will contrary to God's will, and he had prejudices which interfered with the service committed to him. He had national prejudices and he allowed himself to be governed by his own will. He had national prejudices and religious prejudices, and these prejudices may be with all of us. However learned or gifted we are, we may become affected by prejudice, and our service may be marred and so we may have a hard way to travel. Poor Jonah had to take a hard way, the way of his own will.

I am not seeking to preach the gospel as is often the case in taking up Jonah, but I am leading up to the idea of resignation, entire resignation to the will of God. I have spoken of the hard road and any one affected by prejudices either national or otherwise is sure to come in for a hard way. Servants of God have often been affected by them in this sense, but they come in for a hard way. You will recall what is said about another great servant, namely Elijah. He set out on a journey too, of his own will. He set out in fear, he was afraid of Jezebel. In one sense it was quite right to be afraid of her influence, but it was not right to quail before her in the maintenance of truth. God said to him, as he set out, "the journey is too great for thee", 1 Kings 19:7. We all remember how God in His mercy came in for His servant. Elijah came into the wilderness of Beersheba in fear. The very term "the well of the oath" reminds us how God has engaged Himself to look after us and take care of us, but Elijah laid down in the wilderness of Beersheba in fear. He

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went in disregard of the will of God and in fear of Jezebel. He is about to say, God should slay him, but you will remember the angel came, and made cakes for him on hot stones. Such is God's way to keep His servant in the path of His will, and the angel did it even twice. Now Elijah took his journey, a long journey, which God felt as well as he, but he took it; he went to Horeb, and he went there to resign his commission. In a certain sense it is better to resign than to carry on in the exercise of one's own will, instead of the mere nominal execution of the will of God. Scripture speaks of the denial of the truth. It is better to give up and resign than to carry on thus. We know how christendom carries on in this way, doing their own will in all these religious "isms" in which the will of God and the Scriptures are contravened and disregarded. We should be thankful if such gave up, if every cleric gave up the false position so contrary to the will of God. Pardon me for alluding to what may bring forth some resentment, but I am speaking of it being better to resign a commission than to carry on, if it is not according to the will of God and the holy principles of Scripture. This is what Elijah did, but God did not give him up; he was too great and too valuable a servant to give up. God would restore him. That is God's way, the restoration of His servants so that we may really serve, really do His will. There can be nothing greater than doing the will of God. "He that does the will of God abides for eternity", 1 John 2:17.

Now, as I said, Elijah was restored, and God made him to be a commissioner and an appointer for service. God honoured him and He took him to heaven. Think of that! Think of what our God is to His servants. What a God to serve, to serve well, so as to please Him. But Jonah had a hard way as I said, going down to Joppa. You know what that is today. What wills are at work there! What there is in Palestine at the present moment! The news is full of Palestine, and God is saying that it

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will be so. We have to wait and cherish that which we are going on with, namely Christ in heaven and the Spirit here, and the assembly here. That is what we are called to go on with. It is for us to clothe ourselves with humility, not to make any show, but go on in a lowly way.

'Lord! let us wait for Thee alone:
Our life be only this --
To serve Thee here on earth unknown;
Then share Thy heav'nly bliss'. (Hymn 411)

That is the idea, that is the delight of the saints now, every one of us. We are bound to say what a wonderful thing it is to have part in such a service. Well, Jonah did not. He chose a hard way. This has often been before us in preaching. There are many here who have been preaching on Jonah and rightly, but I am speaking now of the hard way of the disobedient servant, a disobedient person who had been commissioned by God to carry out what He had committed to him. You must not forget that. If we serve, we are to do so as commissioned, heaven as it were committing itself to the service.

In Jonah 1:2, the word is "Arise, go to Nineveh, the great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me". That was Jonah's commission, but he turned right round like a deceitful bow. Think of what heaven thought of that movement of a man committed to the service of God! Nineveh was a great city and Jonah turned right away and chose another path. He sought to get away from the divine presence, and the road was hard. There were no free passages in those days, there were no lifts given to the weary passengers, Jonah had none. We can thank God now for any liberality and kindnesses shown to us, but Jonah paid his fare whatever it was! It was a question now as to heaven and the mariners. The shipmaster was not hard. He was a kindly man who had the

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government and the management of the ship. Jonah is on it. Thank God for any kindness we have experienced. The men in the ship utter kindly words and where you get kindly men in government you can thank God. They utter their kindly convictions which were right; leading men of the world in recent times have often uttered kind words, convictions which are right and which have liberated the saints of God, and we ought to thank God for them. The kindness of these mariners of the Mediterranean calls for thanks. Jonah was a run-away from God and the question came up, "For whose cause this evil is upon us"? Jonah 1:7. I need not read all, but there is one thing to be said about him and that is recorded in Jonah 1:9, "And he said unto them, I am a Hebrew, and I fear Jehovah, the God of the heavens, who hath made the sea and the dry land". That was a good speech, a certain confession, for the word Hebrew denoted reproach, the reproach of Christ, as in Egypt, as shown in the early chapters of Exodus. He was making a good confession, showing how we may be in the path of self-will and yet make a good confession, but that does not make up for self-will. God is not forgetting that. So there may be fine speeches, or a fine gospel address, as indeed the great servant understood in saying, "lest after having preached to others I should be myself rejected", 1 Corinthians 9:27.

A servant may preach well, as to terms at least, and yet become a castaway, a solemn thing! So we can make good speeches and fail as to the will of God. God knows how to appraise this. Heaven is thinking of its own rights, and its commissions, and the persons who are called into the service. And so Jonah went on. You will notice in Jonah 1:9 that he speaks of "the God of the heavens" and His creative power. There is many a place where the children are taught bad doctrine about the creation, and about Jonah too. Lies are being taught at the schools. Jonah is telling the truth, at least as to

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God and His creative rights and power. It says in Jonah 1:10, "Then were the men exceedingly afraid, and said unto him, What is this thou hast done? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of Jehovah: for he had told them". There may be someone here in this case. Jonah had told the men. The brethren know, they know what has happened, what God has said. They know what has happened in your case. Maybe God has said something in the ministry meeting which was intended to be a rebuke to you, so that you may be saved from your self-will. God's thought is that we may be controlled in the path of God's will and be resigned to it, that there may be unqualified resignation to it. Jonah had not resigned himself, for he had selected a way for himself to get to Tarshish. At that time God's mind was towards the east, but Jonah went to the west. The testimony of Israel and the commission of God's servant was towards the east, the great city of Nineveh, a very great city. God had sent Jonah expressly to it. There is not time to say much of that, only just to touch on this matter of resignation. Before we thoroughly surrender and return we have recourse to devious ways and means and deception of all kinds. In Jonah 1:11, it says, "And they said unto him, What shall we do unto thee, that the sea may be calm unto us? for the sea grew more and more tempestuous". God has power in the sea.

It is often said that the nation that rules the seas, the seven seas as they are called, is the winning nation. That may be so, but at any rate, the Lord Jesus, the ultimate Victor, will yet put His right foot on the sea and His left foot on the earth, Revelation 10:2, as if He made much of the sea. When He takes hold of things presently He will make much of the sea. He is not making much of it now; as a matter of fact the Lord Jesus is considering about the assembly and the gospel, not the government of the world. It is a question of the gospel and the assembly; the Father has control of other things. He

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has kept them in His own power so that it is to our advantage to know what the Lord is actually engaged in now, what His work is. But still we do well to recognise the seas, and God's government, and the way it can act against us. I hope to go across the sea shortly. I can do it with equanimity, although God may do things, and we do well to commit our way to Him. The Atlantic is very turbulent at this time of the year. I only speak of this to bring out the sea question and the government of God and what He may do with it. We have to bow to God's will, and though we have a certain godly fear as to what may happen, we are cast upon God that nothing may happen on our voyage, we hope nothing may happen. But now as to Jonah, "they said unto him, What shall we do unto thee, that the sea may be calm unto us"? Jonah 1:11. It was God in His government, and He has power in the sea. He can use it, and it may get worse and worse, in any case it did in what I am depicting here, and things will get worse and worse in the path of self-will, and He inaugurates a course of discipline so that you may resign your will.

In this case the point is not that the men were dealing directly against Jonah, they were favourable to him, but God's sea was raging against him. Who could stand before God? "If God be for us, who against us"? Romans 8:31. But what can we do if God is against us? We must submit to the will of God, and give up the will of the flesh once for all, and the sea will become calm. It yields fruit, maybe it yields the things you need, but in the meantime God is saying I have power against you, yet not against you, but against your will. God is for us at all times. He is for the believer. So Jonah came to it. He said to them, "Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you". Jonah 1:12. He knew just exactly what would happen, showing he was doubly responsible. Many wayward, self-willed believers know what God teaches, and what the Scriptures teach,

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therefore they are doubly responsible as pursuing their own will. Jonah knew, and he said, "Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you". Jonah 1:12. Notice that! God was dealing with Jonah. Jonah was thinking of them, not of himself. He is coming to the point; he is already becoming a type of the Lord Jesus. "Cast me forth into the sea". Jonah 1:12. He is now becoming a figure of the Lord Jesus for the first time. He has been doing his own will up to now, but God is successful in reaching him, as He is with all of us. He tells the mariners what to do, for he says, "for I know that because of me this great tempest is upon you". Jonah 1:12. How sorrowful that a christian should bring a tempest on the poor world lying in the wicked one; it has enough indeed, to bear. Yet the christian in his waywardness can bring a tempest. The awful thing which has happened commenced through the disregard of the will of God. The will is in all these matters. Nothing has happened by chance at all; it is all according to divine will, and if we have come through mercifully, then it is God's mercy. We can take no credit for it at all. We may have pursued our own wills, our own way. Terrible things have happened, but they have passed, but other things may happen. We must seek the will of God and give up all national prejudices. It is time for getting ready to go up, and for disallowing all that is of man and man's ways.

Now I want to make the matter clear and bring out the part the worldly man has in this; though these men were not wicked men, but they are worldly men, yet somewhat affected by the mercy of God. God is helping men to say what is right, it is given to them of God. It is for us to hide ourselves and to bring God into everything. The things scientific men are talking about are God's things, and they can be used of God or He may hinder them being used, but it is a question of the saints and our submission to the will of God. The scripture says here, "But the men rowed hard to regain the land; but they could not", Jonah 1:13.

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How could they? God was against them. Who can stand against the waves if God raises them up. When He wants to deal with somebody, or with a nation, who can stand against Him? It says here, "They could not". Yet we have, "Ah, Jehovah, we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life". Jonah 1:14. I believe there is something like this, not that I am venturing to prophesy, but I believe there is this movement of mercy on God's part in the gospel so that some may be saved. Here they cried unto the Lord and said, "Ah, Jehovah, we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou Jehovah hast done as it pleased thee", Jonah 1:14. What can we say to that? If the men are saying that, whatever they are doing that is right, we can say "Amen" to. Thank God for such a speech as this. It came from God; there was some movement in these men's hearts. Surely all that was done here in this great gospel book is so that we may see how the mercy of God acts towards the 120,000 persons and the much cattle of Nineveh. There are some men who say Jonah was a myth, but the christian knows differently. Let me show you how he knows.

The answer to infidelity today is the sign of Jonah, but it is for us to see what came forth in the mercy of God from the mariners of the ship, and so it says, "And they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea". Jonah 1:15. It was at his own behest, his own suggestion. Here he is a type of the Lord Jesus, who died for us. I am not going to pursue that; I only point it out by the way. Then we read: "and the sea ceased from it's raging. And the men feared Jehovah exceedingly". Jonah 1:15,16. You may say, What became of them? Well, heaven had been watching what was happening, we may be sure, and would take notice of this. How the Lord regards every movement towards Himself, whatever the motive; and God regards it! And so the men

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"feared Jehovah exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice unto Jehovah, and made vows". Jonah 1:16. That is all I am going to say, though I may add, that the next verse is to bring out what some christian, some person here may be doing in pursuing his own will, and so may any of us in some measure, but what I am speaking of now is what is available to you as giving up your own will and returning to the brethren, returning to the assembly, for the assembly is the great vessel and in it the service of God is carried on as in Jonah. The fish was the prepared vessel, divinely prepared, and it was to contain a great worshipper. How did Jonah become a great worshipper? Because he resigned his own will for the will of God, and so he became a worshipper. Just as in Corinth, in the assembly there, a man comes in while prophecy is going on and he is convicted of all, the whole place is affected by this man. He is convicted of all, judged of all, and he falls down and worships and reports that God is amongst you of a truth. Jonah became all these things in that vessel; how extraordinary! The service of God began in the fish's belly and it entered into the ears of God in His holy temple, Jonah 2:7. It shows what may come to pass if we give up our own will. "Cast me forth into the sea". There is nothing else for that will, the man must go, the will of God must prevail. And so, as the will of God prevailed, His service was carried on in the fish. The fish was the vessel, and so the assembly is the vessel in which the service of God is carried on.

I want to say a word about Peter, and while Peter is a commissioned man too, or was, he also was a Jonah in the sense in which I have been speaking. He is the leading brother in John 21. He is the leading brother, in Matthew 10; it says "first", "Peter". But here in John 21, John is led by him, and they are both wrong, showing that the leading brothers may not be always right. I may not always be right. I may make mistakes. Pardon me for speaking of myself as a leading brother.

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I may not be always right and I have to see to it that I yield to the principle of resignation and come to the will of God before I get old. Here the word to Peter is "when thou shalt be old". Peter was yet young. Most of you here are young. I urge you not to wait until you get old to resign to the will of God. Do it now. Die! That is the idea of christianity, to lay down our lives, for the brethren it may be, to lay down our lives for the will of God. But there is more than that here, the old man is to be the one who has learned in his youth. Heaven speaks of it in Ecclesiastes 12:1, "Remember thy Creator in the days of thy youth", and then we are told how quickly we get old and what happens, "the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be shattered at the fountain, or the wheel be broken at the cistern", Ecclesiastes 12:6. The golden bowl and the silver cord refer to what is of God in all of us. The pitcher is broken at the fountain; death may come. Do not wait for that; that is the point. Begin when you are young. Come to the point of resignation, give up your self-will and your ambitions and aspirations in that which is great according to man, and be simply a follower of the Lord Jesus. "Follow thou me". That is what the Lord said to Peter. "Verily, verily, I say to thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst where thou desiredst; but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and bring thee where thou dost not desire". John 21:18. That is what I mean by complete surrender. That is what baptism means. It means the giving up of one's life. Peter did not do it, but the Lord is telling him he will do it when he is old. The Lord knew his man perfectly. He was doubtless watched by heaven. Peter surrendered. "Thou shalt stretch forth thy hands" that is, giving up. "And another shall gird thee". He was not going to do any more girding for war, for conflict or for anything. Others were going to do it. The idea is

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giving up, submitting to the will of God and facing actual death. "When thou shalt be old". Many of us are old. Some of us are young, and the point is to yield, to resign, even going so far as to say "having the desire for departure, and being with Christ, for it is very much better", Philippians 1:23. We often say that, but the Lord does not say that here. The Lord is not holding out any rosy path. "Another shall gird thee". He is speaking of execution. Men would put him to death, for doubtless Peter was martyred. It is a great day when each of us faces martyrdom. I am not saying that to frighten you. What difficult times we are in now and they will continue, and we are to be resigned to the will of God. The Lord says, "Fear not those who kill the body, and after this have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, who after he has killed has authority to cast into hell; yea, I say to you, Fear him", Luke 12:4,5. That is the idea, accepting martyrdom, doing the will of God. Peter had the martyr's crown. The Lord assigned that to him. Stephen had it; Paul had it, and other crowns too; he says, "Henceforth the crown of righteousness is laid up for me, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will render to me in that day; but not only to me, but also to all who love his appearing", 2 Timothy 4:8. Then there is the crown of life; there are several crowns and they are all available to us, but there must be resignation to the will of God and this is a safe, right and honoured path for every believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.

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A VOICE BEHIND

Revelation 1:10 - 16; Isaiah 30:18 - 21

I am thinking, dear brethren, of 'a voice behind', spoken of in the first scripture, and again in the second. Two ideas are in mind, the one referring to servants, indeed to a great servant, the apostle John, but also John the prophet. The brethren will be aware, that he is directed several times to change his position; it is a common thing with the Lord's servants to be directed to change their positions. The Lord was ready to change His after He rose from among the dead. According to Luke He was minded to go to heaven the day He arose; that is to change His position, but according to Luke's second treatise He did not go for forty days after He arose, but m each case He was acting for Himself although entirely subject to the Father, in all things doing what pleased Him; as He said, "I do always the things that are pleasing to him", John 8:29. So that His movements were perfect and pleasurable to God.

Now alluding to His going up, you will all remember that it is referred to early in Luke. "And it came to pass when the days of his receiving up were fulfilled", Luke 9:51. The idea of His ascension was ever present with Him after it was made clear that He was rejected in this world. Going up would imply that love would be active in Him, and He was going to where it could act at its best; that is, in heaven. So He was carried up according to Luke 24, and according to Paul He was "received up in glory", 1 Timothy 3:16; showing that the great objective was His ascension, not simply to be in heaven, but to administer from there so that His own might effectively carry on down here. So it is, that as to any movement the Lord would direct in any of us, he would have in mind that we might carry on His work, if

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not in one place, in another, but carry on successfully. So John here is carrying on; he is in the Spirit. Who of us can say much about that, as to what it is to be in the Spirit on the Lord's day, or any day? The Lord may have to call attention to what is suitable to the Lord's day, to show us how our minds should be taken up. John says, "I heard behind me a great voice as of a trumpet", Revelation 1:10, and then in verse 12, "I turned back to see the voice which spoke with me; and having turned, I saw seven golden lamps". The turning was an essential matter, and a change of position is involved. That is what I am thinking of; as to whether each is in the position in which he can serve the Lord best. There was no flaw in John's attitude, he was still the beloved disciple, only here he is the beloved prophet. In a sense it is greater to be a prophet if prophecy is needed, and it was needed. It was a question here of revelation, "Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to shew to his bondmen what must shortly take place; and he signified it, sending by his angel, to his bondman John, who testified the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, all things that he saw". Revelation 1:1,2. That is the general outline of the position.

Now in verse 9 of our chapter he is introducing himself to his brethren. It is one of the greatest thoughts. I had it today in coming into this room; it came into my mind, that it is the brethren's time; a time for the local brethren and for some others also, as far as the room is capable of accommodating the brethren, they are here now. So it is a time to speak to one another as brethren. John says "I John, your brother". Revelation 1:9. The minister is in mind here, but the minister is to be a brother. It is more important to be a brother than a minister. Ministers will cease in a sense, although there may be something of that nature above, but the brother will ever remain; it is not simply what he is here is a public way. The position of brethren is public; the word brethren would mean, that we are

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known publicly; we have a public position. There are at least some of them on earth, but "one is your instructor, and all ye are brethren", Matthew 23:8. That is a public matter, and it is usually known where we are. The Lord insists that we should be known and that the mark of brethren should be upon us.

So John leads the way; "I John", not 'I, the beloved disciple', but "I John", one known by his name among the brethren. He lived longer than most of the early brethren, perhaps there was no one of his day better known. No doubt heaven had pleasure in his living so long, not that one would wish to live longer than the appointed span according to Moses' word in Psalm 90, but one would wish to have all one's faculties so as to serve effectively to the end, and then to be like Aaron, who went up to die accompanied by Moses and Eleazar. I am only speaking briefly as to this point, but with a view to stressing the idea of brethren. "I John, your brother and fellow-partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and patience, in Jesus". Revelation 1:9. Many have been in tribulation and suffering of late, but not "in Jesus". Wherever we are or whatever we are in we should be "in Jesus". John says "Your brother and fellow-partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and patience, in Jesus". Revelation 1:9. So that his position is very clear and very attractive too, that there was such a man on earth at that time, in apostolic times, who could characterise himself in this way and that by the Spirit of God.

Then he says "I became in the Spirit". Revelation 1:10. He was not always in it, he had to return to ordinary affairs as we all do, but he says "I became in the Spirit on the Lord's day", Revelation 1:10 meaning that he was alive to the importance of a selected day, a day definitely selected for the purpose, and that day was the Lord's. It is called the first day of the week, too, in order to divorce our thoughts from mere authority and to turn them to the beginning of the time, of an era, of christianity, the greatest dispensation. We

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should get into that too, not only to be on the Lord's day free of ordinary duties, but to get into the dispensation, the reality of it; to be in the Spirit on the Lord's day, but also on the first day of the week, should be our concern. "And the first day of the week, we being assembled to break bread", Acts 20:7, that was the normal thought as to the first day of the week.

These things being so, we have the passage I have read in Revelation 1:10,11, "and I heard behind me a great voice as of a trumpet, saying, What thou seest write in a book, and send to the seven assemblies". The idea of writing is introduced; that is to say, John is still to be occupied. But Revelation 1:12 says, "I turned back to see the voice which spoke with me; and having turned, I saw seven golden lamps". I want to dwell on these things a little. The voice was to be seen. The suggestion is that the voice was the Person, and the Person was to be seen; but then John had to turn to see Him, showing that there was something that he had to attend to involving his responsibility, something that he had to do other than be in the Spirit. He had to turn. That is what I am dwelling upon, as to whether we understand the need of changing our position, whatever it may imply. Here the voice was from behind. You might say he was doing well when he was in the Spirit, in the isle of Patmos for the word of God and the testimony of Jesus, but heaven and the voice had something else to think of, something else to do. So he turned to see the voice and says "I saw seven golden lamps, and in the midst of the seven lamps one like the Son of man, clothed with a garment reaching to the feet, and girt about at the breasts with a golden girdle". Revelation 1:12,13. This is what he saw.

Now I want to point out, that it is the Lord, the Lord as John had never seen Him before, because he says, "when I saw him I fell at his feet as dead; and he laid his right hand upon me". Revelation 1:17. Evidently he had never seen the Lord in this position previously. Dear brethren, is

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there not possibly a need of a change in any of us so as to see the Lord in a position in which we have not yet seen Him, and yet should see Him? That is where our peculiar responsibility attaches, and the need is great for the acceptance of responsibility. However perfect our service may be the need is great that we should change as the Lord directs. It says here "I saw seven golden lamps, and in the midst of the seven lamps one like the Son of man". Revelation 1:12,13. We might say, Why did he not first see the Person whose voice was heard? That is not item one in the list of what the Spirit of God records here; the first is the seven golden lamps. The voice is not mentioned first; the prophet turns aside to see the voice, but what he sees is seven golden lamps. I touch on this, that we may search ourselves as to our thoughts about the assembly and the place it has with us, and see whether we are not making everything of the thought of Christ to the exclusion of the assembly; not that we should belittle Him, far from it, but at the same time nothing should becloud the assembly. If we understand what the assembly is to Him we shall not make the place we give to the truth as to Christ becloud the assembly. The first thing here in John's vision is the seven golden lamps with the Lord in the midst of them, that is how we understand the truth. How few of those regarded as christians have any idea of the seven golden lamps; they are the first thing mentioned as seen.

I want everybody to look at this matter as to how the truth stands in his soul, I mean the truth set out here in the book of Revelation; it calls for investigation, searching, and it involves the visitations of Christ. He is moving about in the midst of the seven golden lamps. He began in Ephesus. If I am in Ephesus I must look into my heart and see what my motives are, for the Lord is coming to visit the saints and see how things are going. Samuel of old had a circuit, and the people trembled in the places when he came to them; it would be a searching

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time. When the Lord comes to a place it is a searching time. This visitation that John describes is a judicial one. It is right that we should speak of the Lord coming to us according to John's gospel, but John's gospel does not give us the judicial service of Christ. We need to be afraid of the Lord if things are not right. The description of Him here is, that He is "clothed with a garment reaching to the feet, and girt about at the breasts with a golden girdle: his head and hair white like white wool, as snow; and his eyes as a flame of fire; and his feet like fine brass, as burning in a furnace; and his voice as the voice of many waters; and having in his right hand seven stars; and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword going forth; and his countenance as the sun shines in its power. And when I saw him I fell at his feet as dead", Revelation 1:13 - 17. For the moment love was pent up. Revelation does not speak of the time of love; it is a time of judicial searching. We have to go back to the epistles and the gospels through the book of Revelation. It is the last word. The "Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him", Revelation 1:1, and it is signified to John. We say, Paul was the last word, but John had the Revelation, and it indicates that things were not right among the brethren. The Lord was obliged to give up His ordinary service for the moment, so as to visit the brethren, the assemblies, to see how they got on. When the time comes Ephesus is visited. So, dear brethren, the visitations of the Lord to ourselves are one of the most serious matters of the present time. I think it is in this the conditions of the Revelation are fulfilled, for it is the same John, who refers in his gospel to the Lord coming to His own.

The Lord appeared to John and he said, "I fell at his feet as dead", Revelation 1:17, that is serious, for John was a beloved apostle. There is not the slightest evidence that John was out of the way at all, yet he had to turn back to see the Lord, not in heaven, but amongst the assemblies. It is as if the Lord would say, 'I am still going on with

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the brethren, with the gatherings, but things are not right'. The Lord would say, as it were, 'You may say that I come to you, but I want you to understand, that I have other garments than those I wear on the first day of the week, and I may have to come to you in those garments'.

John says, He was "girt about at the breasts with a golden girdle", Revelation 1:13, meaning that His affections are pent up, for the girdle girt up hinders the affections flowing out. Then, "his head and hair white like white wool, as snow; and his eyes as a flame of fire; and his feet like fine brass, as burning in a furnace; and his voice as the voice of many waters; and having in his right hand seven stars". Revelation 1:13 - 16. He has these stars in His hand; He has judicial garments also, but He is thinking of the assemblies as well. It is a picture combining the judicial with the thoughtful love side. The Lord was saying, as it were, 'Although I am in judicial garb, I am not forgetting things that are dear to you'. He says to John, "Fear not", that is the most cheerful word so far. There is a man here who had to turn back and he tells us what he saw.

Further down he says, "And when I saw him I fell at his feet as dead; and he laid his right hand upon me, saying, Fear not". Revelation 1:17. So I would say to any servant here who loves the Lord and is engaged aright as John was, that there is nothing to fear. In pursuing righteousness, love, faith and peace, there is nothing to fear, we can go on happily and freely, but the Lord is saying, I have on a different garment, not the wedding garment. I have not on the garment of the upper room; I am amongst the assemblies nevertheless, and I want you to go on. So he says to John, "Fear not". There is nothing to fear where love is, where righteousness, faith, love and peace are. They are things the Lord is set for, He died to establish them. If I am going on with these things there is nothing to fear. But if something has happened in another town, do not forget it. If the Lord has to put

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on His judicial robes to go to that town, let us not forget that town. We are to be universal in our outlook. What is wrong in this country is wrong elsewhere; what is wrong in Australia is wrong here; what is wrong in America is wrong here. The Lord is giving us to understand that He must keep His judicial garments at hand all the time. The idea of the wardrobe is common in Scripture; the keeper of the wardrobe, 2 Kings 22; the best robe for the prodigal son, Luke 15.

John sees that the Lord is in a judicial attitude, for He is "girt about at the breast with a golden girdle: his head and hair white like white wool, as snow". Revelation 1:13,14. Now, although it is not causing me fear, because the Lord says "Fear not", seeing that I have these righteous features, yet at the same time, I must take account of the seven assemblies. The Lord is interested in every one of them. We are too local, or even continental; the position of the assembly is universal. I have to keep the seven in mind, for what is there in any one of them is my business. Hence John had to turn back, meaning that he had other things to attend to. The voice was powerful, it was the voice of authority. We must not say, there is a bad condition in America, or the West Indies, or Australia, and that we are sorry for the brethren in these lands, but they went out there to make money, and that is what has happened. That will not do! That will not meet my responsibility. I want to stress that next. John had to turn back to see all this. He saw it and it affected him greatly: he fell at the Lord's feet "as dead", but then he hears that beautiful word "Fear not", 'You do not need to fear, John!' As following the principles of 2 Timothy we do not have to fear; not that we do not fear on account of evil in the assemblies, but we do not have to fear the Lord. If I am following righteousness as calling on the Lord out of a pure heart I do not have to fear the Lord, I am pleasurable to Him. John was pleasurable to the Lord, but he had to turn back; it is

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mentioned twice in verse 12. He says, "having turned, I saw seven golden lamps". Revelation 1:12. The vision was something that made him change his whole attitude. He would say, 'I must take off my wedding garment for the moment and put on garments suitable'. If the Lord is dealing judicially I want to be with Him. I do not want the Lord only to wear the judicial garments. Indeed, the Lord would say, 'You put yours on'. Sometimes we need them in the care meeting, and if the Lord indicates this we should be no different from the Lord in our garments.

The Lord says to John, "Fear not; I am the first and the last, and the living one". Revelation 1:17,18. Scientists say all sorts of things, as if they only have understanding. Wisdom will not die with the scientific men. The all-various wisdom of God is in the assembly; so we need not fear what the scientific men say. The Lord says "I am the first and the last, and the living one: and I became dead". Revelation 1:17,18 When the Lord died that was, before God, the end of man as he is in the flesh with all his science and pretentions. Where man's wisdom is displayed is but the place of a skull. The Lord would say to us, "behold, I am living to the ages of ages". Revelation 1:18. How the scientific men like to talk about ages, but the Lord says, "I am living to the ages of ages". Paul says, speaking of God, "to him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus, unto all generations of the age of ages. Amen". Ephesians 3:21. We do not need to fear what men are saying. The Lord says, "I am the first and the last, and the living one: and I became dead, and behold, I am living to the ages of ages, and have the keys of death and of hades". Revelation 1:17,18. He has supreme control over all infernal powers. What can happen to us? Nothing but what comes from the Lord.

The next word to John is, "Write therefore what thou hast seen". Revelation 1:19. I have already alluded to the writing, the precious pages of Scripture; they set our minds at ease as to everything. "Write therefore what thou hast seen". Revelation 1:19.

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The Lord is now telling His beloved servant to use his pen; and he could use it. Not that he was an accomplished scribe, according to man, but he became that in divine matters, some of the most marvellous writings in existence are the writings of John. The Lord tells him the order in which he is to write. "Write therefore what thou hast seen, and the things that are, and the things that are about to be after these". Revelation 1:19. So John had his work set out. The Lord is Himself making out the plan of the book of Revelation, it is not left to John to lay out. All the work the Lord gives us to do He lays out for us.

Now I must go to Isaiah. This is a very beautiful word in chapter 30, verses 18 - 21. I cannot say much because of the time, but it is another point of view from that of which I have been speaking. "And therefore will Jehovah wait, that he may be gracious unto you". Isaiah 30:18. I am now speaking of the exercise of God's grace. He is waiting to be gracious in all matters. What I am about to say is a balance to what I have already said; let us put them side by side. What John saw as he turned back, means that he was a faithful servant doing what is right, but he is to turn back to see what there is and that he is responsible for it. In Isaiah here it says, "therefore will Jehovah wait, that he may be gracious unto you". Isaiah 30:18. This is the word I would like to leave with the dear brethren in this town and district, this matter of grace, because it is the time of the throne of grace, not the throne of judgment. I would very earnestly desire that young men might be imbued with that thought of grace, for it reigns. You can insist on grace, however bad or wicked a man or woman may be, grace reigns through righteousness unto eternal life. The position is glorious. I bring this forward so that we might be balanced. The Lord in His dealings with the assembly, brings forward the failure, for the Lord is walking in the midst of it, but as well as that, He is exercising grace. His service of grace

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is overlapping His service of judgment. The book of Revelation runs on to what is going to happen after the assembly has gone to heaven, but it also overlaps the dispensation of grace. The Lord can change His clothes at any time in regard of any assembly or any saint where things are not right, but there is a balance to that in His service of grace.

The prophet tells us, "therefore will Jehovah wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he lift himself up, that he may have mercy upon you; for Jehovah is a God of judgment; blessed are all they that wait for him". Isaiah 30:18. He is waiting, and we are waiting for Him; that is the idea. He is ready to do things in grace. The word is, to those who wait for Him, "For the people shall dwell in Zion, at Jerusalem". Isaiah 30:19. How glorious this is, and we should have in our hearts what corresponds in christianity. "Thou shalt weep no more; he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; as he heareth it, he will answer thee. And the Lord will give you the bread of adversity" (that is to be expected) "and the water of oppression; yet thy teachers shall not be hidden any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers. And when ye turn to the right hand or when ye turn to the left" (wherever you go, to school or business), "thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it". Isaiah 30:19 - 21 There is a way! Christianity itself is the way. Mohammedanism is not a way, nor are many things one could mention, for there is only one way; that is christianity, in the true sense. "The way" is known in relation to the presence of the Holy Spirit on earth, Christ in heaven, and the assembly here. That is the way. That is what you hear spoken of behind you if you are turning aside. If things are not right you hear the voice behind you, and in it the Lord is saying to you, "This is the way, walk ye in it"; Isaiah 30:21; that way stands related to the things I have mentioned; the assembly is in the way. It is not John himself that is in mind, but the ordinary

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believer, those who are liable to fall and are falling. But a voice is to be heard to direct us to the way, and we are to walk in it.

I leave with you the idea of grace, how magnificent it is! "This is the way, walk ye in it". Isaiah 30:21.

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PAUL'S MINISTRY AND THE SERVICE OF GOD (1)

Ephesians 1

J.T. In proposing Ephesians for these readings it is with the thought in mind that the imprisonments of the apostle were intended of God to enable him to write the epistles which are outstanding, as indicating the completeness of the dispensation; that is to say, Ephesians, Philippians and Colossians with other minor epistles. It is thought that God graciously ordered it that His servant should go through these experiences of imprisonment, affording certain advantages for writing and meditation, and facilities for the Holy Spirit to use him in inspiration, which was needed, so that the full thought of the dispensation should be completed in ministry and carried down historically, but in the power of the Spirit in view of the completion of the assembly; that it too should be completed, according to the level of Ephesians 4 which contemplates the assembly, the full thought of it, reached through ministry. What will come before us first is rather the objective side, involving the purpose of God, but the ministry is properly seen in chapter 4.

Ques. Do you link with Paul's sufferings in the prison, his sufferings also in Jerusalem at the hands of the Jews? He seems to have been allowed to participate in the sufferings of Christ Himself in a special way.

J.T. Well, I was thinking rather of the quiet involved in the prolonged imprisonment at Rome, and earlier in Caesarea. These, of course, involved sufferings as also at Jerusalem, but there is great need in ministry, and without doubt, especially in inspiration, for quiet, for lying

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fallow, as it were; for keeping sabbaths; so that the influence of heaven should have full sway with us and fit us for whatever service may be needed. It is assumed that the apostle leads in all this, his sufferings being very extended, more than any of the apostles, as far as we can judge.

Ques. Does it involve on our side power to be abstracted from ordinary things, even while engaged in them?

J.T. That is what I was thinking, among other things. The power of abstraction is difficult to arrive at in our times, but where such difficulty exists our wisdom is to face it, and overcome it by the Lord's help, because if it is divinely intended God will support us in maintaining it.

A.J.G. In that connection is it significant that we get the surpassingness of God's power brought in in this epistle? That power is available to the saints, is it not?

J.T. Just so; the power that worketh in us.

P.L. So that the land lying fallow, it was refreshed with the sun and with the rain from heaven; refreshment being connected with the sabbath. Would the oft visits of Onesiphorus to the prison bring that in. Paul says, "he has often refreshed me". 2 Timothy 1:16.

J.T. Very good. Mercy would be granted to him on account of that. One wonders, I expect most of us do, that the apostle should attach such value to such a visit as that, a looking-up visit, as if the apostle was neglected.

F.J.F. Paul's evangelical energy had not ceased because of this imprisonment, as we see, in that he secured Onesimus in his bonds.

J.T. I do not suppose it ever did wane, only, that toward the close he stressed the word of God, the preaching of the word of God.

Ques. Would that cover the ministry in its fulness as well as the earlier evangelical activity?

J.T. Well, I would think so, the word of God being a

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wide term. Paul himself speaks of completing it, but evidently toward the end of his service it is more stressed than the gospel itself. "Proclaim the word", he said to Timothy; 2 Timothy 4:2.

P.H.H. Do you see any connection between this quiet and the ecstasy which came upon Peter? Paul says on another occasion, "whether we are beside ourselves, it is to God". 2 Corinthians 5:13. Could you open up a little more this thought of abstraction?

J.T. Well, it is important, but it is a question whether ecstasy is understood. In Peter's case he took advantage of the time of a meal, which would be a comparatively short time, but he would use it, going to the housetop to pray, and then the ecstasy comes; and the Spirit of God would help us on those lines. The sabbath keeping is essential to wholesome ministry, not that we could expect to have as much time available for sabbath keeping as is indicated in the types, for that would mean, that as in Israel, well nigh a quarter of the time available in ordinary life would be spent in sabbath keeping. We can learn, no doubt from God Himself, who is the first to be spoken of as keeping sabbath -- resting on the seventh day, and being refreshed. It is not only the ease that accrues, the comfort, or rest, but the refreshment, for we are apt to grow weary in one line of thought, and refreshment helps us and fits us for continuance in service.

Ques. Is it also seen in Paul, in Acts 20? Before he sent for the elders of Ephesus he sent excellent brethren on ship together, and was minded to go on foot himself.

J.T. Quite so. No doubt the journey on foot would afford certain relief of mind, which is something to be remembered with the end in view that we may not run unduly on one line of thought, but keep ourselves in freshness, and fit for the service.

W.C. In Mark 6:31, the Lord called the apostles aside, saying, "Come ye yourselves apart into a desert place and rest a little".

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J.T. That agrees with what has been said as to the extended imprisonment of the apostle which afforded much that fitted him peculiarly for the great service of writing these epistles. In this epistle, Ephesians, it is a question of the counsels of God, and the love of God in these counsels, for the first chapter is a question of love at home as we might say, love in its own sphere, and the apostle was ready for that.

Ques. Why were the rigorous conditions of prison necessary for the apostle? The housetop seems to afford conditions of abstraction for Peter, and the isle of Patmos for John.

J.T. Well, the rigorous side was not in mind so much, but, of course, we have to recognise it, but there was a time of quiet. God undoubtedly afforded the apostle alleviation, for it was his own hired house where he dwelt in Rome; thus the position was mitigated, I would think. This afforded him the time for such ease, or rest of mind, and body, as were needed for the great service of writing such an epistle as Ephesians, and what thought was needed!

L.P.M. Do you think that the uniqueness of Paul's ministry required special circumstances such as these?

J.T. That is what I was thinking. We have to think of God's care for His vessels; the Lord said of Paul, he is "an elect vessel to me"; Acts 9:15; so that in view of the very much writing, inspired writing, undoubtedly he needed such relief of mind. We are only speaking of that now in order to make a certain transfer of thought to ourselves, that we may not be absorbed unduly in our service. It is a very exacting time for persons in business and the like, and especially for brothers who may have gift, and are called upon to serve in ministry. The Lord would make allowance for all this, and provide needed repose in quiet, so that our minds should be released; for sometimes we are absorbed in our service.

A.J.G. Would you say that as the work of God in the

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saints progresses there is increasing demand for spirituality on the part of those who serve?

J.T. Well, I find that very definitely, and the strain becomes onerous at times, so that the person becomes perhaps unfit for the more exalted service of ministry. Spirituality is a prime thought with God in the ministry, and hence 1 Corinthians 2:15 enlarges on the spiritual; "the spiritual discerns all things, and he is discerned of no one". In 1 Timothy 5:23, there is a suggestion of stimulation, in view of certain demands made on Timothy. Paul says that he was not to partake in other's sins. The sins of some go before, and of others follow after, and in between these remarks, he makes the suggestion of the need of stimulation. Paul says "use a little wine". 1 Timothy 5:23. I am not saying this in any sense to encourage the use of wine, but only to bring out how thoughtful God is, in view of his service, and how we have to think of the character of the service, so as not to attempt what we are unequal to, because of want of time and rest. We should seek to make time, so that we may be more available for the higher levels of service.

F.A.H. Would the abstraction you speak of provide opportunity for the affections to be impressed by thoughts that have been conceived in love's own sphere?

J.T. We are in love's own sphere now. This chapter is just that as the verses following the second will show, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ; according as he has chosen us in him before the world's foundation, that we should be holy and blameless before him in love". Ephesians 1:3,4. Before Him in love. Think of the exaltation of that, and what God has in mind for us.

S.McC. Would we have an analogy, in principle, to what you are saying, in the final phases of the testimony in Genesis; as in Joseph, where the generations stop at

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him as the loved one, and then the great activities connected with his life and the accessions of light that came through the dreams?

J.T. Well, imprisonment came soon to him, so that we may regard him in that light. Some of us have been comparing him with Isaac. Isaac was a man of leisure; Joseph was a man of toil, a man of affairs, and we have to learn from both.

P.L. Do we get this thought in Jeremiah 33:1 - 3? "the word of Jehovah came to Jeremiah the second time, while he was still shut up in the court of the prison, saying, Thus saith Jehovah the doer of it, Jehovah that formeth it to establish it, Jehovah is his name: Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and I will shew thee great and hidden things, which thou knowest not". The hidden things were shown in the prison.

J.T. He was available and ready for such service to him, and the same thing may be seen in these epistles, especially the one we are engaged with now. What a home love has! The next chapter will show how it operates in opposition, but in this chapter it is at home. Love is at home, as it were. We see what it was in the recesses of the divine counsels, and in the working out of those counsels, and in the persons to whom they refer, including ourselves.

Ques. Does "before him in love", Ephesians 1:4, refer to the present time as well as the full thought which waits its consummation?

J.T. Quite so. The Lord would lead us into these things on the first day of the week.

Ques. At the commencement of Paul's introduction into the christian circle, the Lord said that he was "an elect vessel to me". Acts 9:15.

J.T. Quite so. We have remarked on the recesses of love, and what a place Paul had in them, especially in the later years of his service. He tells us, for instance, about his elevation to the third heaven, and what he

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heard there, keeping it in his mind for fourteen years. May we not think of what it was to him, what enjoyment it afforded to him, as he would ruminate in quiet on what he had heard. Although we have no record of what he heard, yet he heard things said and they were intended to affect him.

Ques. Do you think, that what he speaks of in Ephesians 1 as the counsels of God, may have been in substance what he heard?

J.T. I would think that. What a life his was! It was comparatively short, as far as one can judge, but how full it was; not only of suffering, and travailing, but of quiet waiting in God's presence, and entering into these counsels of love; what formation there was in that for him!

P.H.H. Do you gather that these impressions are to come out into some expression in the service of God? I was thinking of the way that Paul begins, "Blessed be the God and Father". Ephesians 1:3. Does that show that all is gathered up at the present time to be available for service in the assembly?

J.T. I would say that, fully; and it would require time, too. The imprisonment, although suffering was involved, included times of quiet too; restfulness was involved; this is seen in the fact that in the mercy of God, he had his own hired house, and possibly an attendant. That shows what the mercy of God extends to His servants.

F.J.F. Did God, in his providence, overrule all that this might be brought about, for it seems to be the result of a little failure perhaps in Paul's going up to Jerusalem?

J.T. Well, the failure, or whatever it may have been, would be swallowed up in what God was to him, and in the comfort which the Lord ministered to him in saying "Be of good courage; for as thou has testified the things concerning me at Jerusalem, so thou must bear witness at Rome also"; Acts 23:11.

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The time would be afforded to him to do it.

P.L. So that circumstantial limitations are to work for spiritual expansion. Ezekiel 1:1 says, "as I was among the captives by the river Chebar, the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God".

J.T. One has often thought of that and what he saw, especially what is recorded in chapter 10; and indeed throughout. There is what he had to endure too, but what he saw, and as we transfer the principles of these things to ourselves, we learn that we should not be unduly absorbed with secular things; that we should seek what is divinely indicated and is available; seek what is needed in the way of lying fallow, and of rest, so as to be more fitted for the elevated services that come to us, because the days are severe. We read in chapter 5, "redeeming the time, because the days are evil". Ephesians 5:16. God is the maker of time and was the first to use it, and it is remarkable that He rested on the sabbath, and we learn years afterwards in Exodus 31 that He was refreshed in doing so.

J.H.T. Referring to Philippians 3:8, "the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord". Does that reflect the intimacy that Paul enjoyed whilst he was receiving these communications?

J.T. Quite so. "The excellency of the knowledge". Philippians 3:8. You just wonder what effect it had on the apostle immediately, the excellency of the knowledge.

Ques. Is it possible to serve effectively in the ministry unless one has an appreciation of the operations of God in the counsels of His love?

J.T. I think that is so. We cannot go on all the time without keeping our sabbaths. God knows our frame, and would consider us, but He would consider Himself, and consider what is needed in the ministry, as Paul says, "that the ministry be not blamed". 2 Corinthians 6:3. We should see to it that as far as we are concerned it is not blamed; as far

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as your physical condition is involved the ministry is not blamed.

Ques. Is that why Joseph in Egypt received such favour at the hands of the jailor?

J.T. God wrought for him, until the time of release came; "until the time that his word came about: the word of Jehovah tried him", Psalm 105:19. The trial had to go on, until the time came for his word, when his ministry would come. These are indications of how God is working with every one of us, especially with those who are in the service, so as to fit us for it. We may have to endure for a time, but as soon as our word comes; that is, the time of our ministry comes, then we shall be ready for it. For instance, Philip went down to Samaria, we are told in Acts 8:5,8 and he "preached the Christ to them", "And there was great joy in that city"; but the converts did not get the Holy Spirit through his service, and besides that, Simon Magus was undiscerned by Philip. This would indicate that he was not ready for the great service that he had taken on, but presently he is, for the Spirit takes him on; first the angel directs him and sends him to a desert place; no doubt he needed that experience in view of the service that was still ahead of him, but later the Spirit spoke to him as he was in the desert, and said to him "Approach and join this chariot". Acts 8:29. He was a lone brother there in the desert, and Philip was directed so that the eunuch should be served, and evangelised. Can we doubt that the Spirit of God was using all these incidents to fit Philip for the great service of evangelising the eunuch, so that he should be properly served. The eunuch suggested to Philip to come up and sit in the chariot. God ordered that for him, so that the great service should be done well, and it was done well, and then the Spirit of God raptured him. We are not told anything more about his service; he has done his bit, so to speak, and done it well. Later we learn that he had four daughters, virgins which

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did prophesy, Acts 21. He affected the state of things in his house so that it contributed to the ministry, to the testimony, in his four daughters who prophesied. After the Spirit raptured him in Acts 8, he is found at Azotus, and worked thence till he came to Caesarea. All that, I think, indicates that God is ordering everything for His servants, and especially to fit them for the service that He has ordered for them, because it is a question of our being sent into the service; "how shall they preach unless they have been sent"? we are told, in Romans 10:15. Philip was not sent at first, as far as the record goes.

Ques. Referring to Joseph, is what is said in the Psalm significant, "He sent a man before them". Psalm 105:17. Is manhood needed in the service?

J.T. Very good. God sent a man; and too He "sent", "Moses, Aaron, and Miriam", Micah 6:4. All these cases illustrate what we are saying because although Moses and Aaron and Miriam were old people, they needed further fitting for the service that God intended them to render.

J.G.M. Philip eventually gets to Caesarea, but in chapter 10 where Cornelius comes to light, it is not Philip but Peter that serves him. Do you think that Philip was not ready for that great service?

J.T. I do not think he was, but, of course, he was not equipped, because he did not have the key. Peter had the key of administration to open the kingdom to the gentiles, but still Philip did not evangelise in Caesarea as far as we are told.

Rem. The Spirit told Philip to approach the chariot, and it says that he ran. Philip is obedient to the call, and he ran so that he arrived just when the eunuch was reading that particular scripture from which Philip preached.

J.T. Very good. He is now sent, he is now under commission to preach. As far as we can see, when he went down to Samaria he was only under commission as a deacon, but he undertook more in going to Samaria,

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and in due time he succeeded. When he went to Samaria he did not discern Simon Magus, and that was a serious matter, and if we do not discern such people we may think that they are converted when they are not.

Ques. Do you find that the liberty you have in service is often indicated in liberty in prayer? I was thinking of this prayer in Ephesians 1, as on the same level as the ministry. I had in mind, that prayer indicates one's link with God, and such a prayer as this must have come out of profound meditation.

J.T. Your suggestion is that the liberty one has in prayer at any given time is an indication that God is helping as to what He is going to do in the service. Clearly the prayer here is to fit the Ephesians for further service.

S.McC. Why does the apostle open up the epistle by enlarging on the truth in relation to sonship and the counsels of God, and not the truth of Christ and the assembly which is brought out later in the epistle?

J.T. I think he was directed in writing the epistle. The epistle was ordered in its construction, even as the Lord dealt with John, in relation to the book of Revelation. The Lord, in chapter 1:11 and 19, indicated how the book was to be written, and I would say that in principle He would indicate similarly to us. If we are to give an address, for instance, or to help in a reading, the Lord would indicate the course of the thing, the order in which it is to be presented. This chapter, as the whole epistle, is, of course, inspired, but as to the plan of it, I would say that the Lord would use the same methods with Paul as He did with John. He told John what No. 1 was to be, and No. 2 and so on, and so I would think that the Lord would open up the ministry to His servants. This epistle contains the most exalted ministry, so that the love side is put first. It is love at home, and we are loved, we are to be "holy and blameless before him in love". Ephesians 1:4. If the Ephesian saints were to be at

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the full level of the ministry, they are to understand, that they are to be before God in love. They needed this, because they were short of love later, as John writes "thou art fallen", "thou hast left thy first love"; Revelation 2:4,5, they needed more love, and no doubt that is the way the Lord would work with us. You might say to a brother, 'What is your stock of love? How much love have you?' Well, if we have not enough, we had better get more. Let us get more among the saints, and expend our affections on them, and it will be reflected in our ministry. We may have to fall back on words, or maybe eloquence, or something like that, whereas it is love we need. In the first epistle to Corinth, Paul is pointing out that there was a shortage of love in that assembly, and in chapter 13 he portrays love, having in mind to make up the shortage. And I think that is really the point in this chapter, Ephesians 1; it is a love chapter, and a corresponding chapter to Acts 20. It is full of love at the beginning, and full of love in the middle, and full of love at the end, and especially in the enfolding of the boy, who had fallen "and was taken up dead". "But Paul descending fell upon him, and enfolding him in his arms, said, Be not troubled, for his life is in him". Acts 20:9,10. Paul proved it because he had love, he could hardly resuscitate that boy if he did not have love.

Eu.R. Are there two levels of love? sonship at the beginning, and Christ and the assembly at the end, equally high?

J.T. Well, that will come up later in these readings, and we shall need to differentiate where we are to place the assembly in the service of God, where we are to place sonship in the service of God, and where we are to place the Lord's brethren in the service of God. We are now in the chapter that deals with sonship, and the saints being before God in sonship, but in love; that is to say, the title, or designation of sonship is to be entered into by love.

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L.P.M. Is this thought a special feature for this dispensation only; the special place in love that the saints have as set out in this chapter?

J.T. Well, they have. They are the ones that are suited for such a dispensation as the one that is before us, this dispensation that involves love. The millennial dispensation will also, for love will be there, but not to be compared with what this dispensation has. This dispensation is the most exalted one, it involves in blessing what is nearest to the Deity; what is nearest to God Himself, to the Godhead. God would insist that love must envelop where He is; He dwells in light unapproachable, but that implies that love is there, because love and light go together.

Rem. "He that abides in love abides in God". 1 John 4:16.

J.T. Just so, "for God is love". 1 John 4:8.

Wm.H. Would this develop personality and dignity with us individually, as having a place in love?

J.T. I would think so, and personality especially in view of sonship. It is not the assembly yet we are dealing with, but the individual side of things; that is, sonship as before God in love; "that we should be holy and blameless before him in love; having marked us out beforehand for adoption" (sonship) "through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he has taken us into favour in the Beloved". Ephesians 1:4 - 6. It is marvellous the place love has in this chapter.

A.J.G. So that love is not merely presented in the absoluteness of it, so to speak, as having its source in God, but there is an object of that love, "the Beloved". Is that the idea?

J.T. Just so, you might say David, that was David's name, it means beloved.

Ques. Would what you have said earlier as to lying fallow, and what you have just remarked on love, be suggested in

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Psalm 127:2? "It is vain for you to rise up early, to lie down late, to eat the bread of sorrows: so to his beloved one he giveth sleep". You were referring to God's gracious consideration for the vessel.

J.T. Very nice that. Many of us are glad of rest, if only in brief periods. How applicable that Psalm would be as the Lord lay there on that cushion in the boat. As the storm arose, He was asleep but they waked Him. How the Father would give His Beloved sleep there. It only illustrates what we are saying, how considerate God is of us in His service.

P.H.H. Would it be the apprehension of sonship in the servant here that enables him to speak so fully of God's good pleasure; "according to his good pleasure which he purposed in himself"; Ephesians 1:9; although he was himself in limitation. He is somewhat like Moses in the backside of the desert, who spoke of "the good will of him that dwelt in the bush"? Deuteronomy 33:16.

J.T. It is now the good pleasure of His will, and what He purposed in Himself; the pleasure He has in the carrying out of His own thoughts.

P.H.H. Paul is not merely a man displaying his gift, but in his ministry fully in line with God in love. Is that so?

J.T. Quite so. So that it is said of Enoch before his translation, "he had this testimony, that he pleased God". Hebrews 11:5. We are on the eve of translation, but before it the point is to be for the pleasure of God, for the good pleasure of His will. In the order of the testimony in Genesis, Enoch was for God's pleasure before his translation, but Noah in the ark, I would say, was for God's good pleasure in the carrying out of His will through the deluge. We might say it was judgment, but still it was His will; God had pleasure in Noah.

Ques. Does the first reference to love in Scripture, Genesis 22, indicate that love finds its full answer in this relationship of sonship?

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J.T. Well, and the good pleasure of love, of God's will, for Isaac submitted himself wholly, he went the whole course of sacrifice. So that love was there rightly, it was the time of love really, the time of the working out of love in the great thoughts relating to Isaac and Rebecca, all issuing forth from Abraham.

S.McC. In the employment of this word us, "he has chosen us", "and marked us out beforehand", Ephesians 1:4,5, do you take account of your own individuality and personality in relation to sonship in that sense, or do you regard it just as a collective thought?

J.T. Well, each one has his own identity even in the divine scheme. I would say personal identity remains; love would follow up each one.

Ques. Would that be involved in the expression "the glory of his inheritance in the saints"? Ephesians 1:18.

J.T. Quite so; what He has in the saints, the glory of His inheritance in them. What an expression! Then we have an inheritance too, each one of us, because it is said that, He that "has anointed us, is God, who also has sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts", 2 Corinthians 1:21,22. What we have now is the earnest; love is in our hearts, by the Spirit. God gives us an inheritance, the Spirit is the earnest of it; it is in our hearts; that is to say, the identity of each person is followed up by God, whether we are His inheritance, or He affords us an inheritance, the same love follows us up.

P.L. The identity of Moses and Elias on the mount confirms that.

J.T. Just so. There will be individuality in the sons and in the brethren, but there will be unity, and there will be union in the assembly. But the persons will be known in each case.

Ques. Do you think that David typically brings in the spirit of this in 2 Samuel 7:11? He had proposed to build God a house, but God says: "Jehovah will make thee a house". As David sits before God in the peace and

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dignity of sonship, he pours out his heart to God, addressing Him by seven distinctive tiles culminating in, "Thou art the Same".

J.T. Very beautiful, David said, "thou art that God". 2 Samuel 7:28.

W.W. Would you say that the apostle had these great thoughts in his mind when he wrote to the Galatians, "ye are all God's sons by faith in Christ Jesus"? Galatians 3:26.

J.T. Quite so. The Galatians were all God's sons by faith in Christ Jesus; showing that it is the time of sonship; we are all God's sons, it is a question of light. But then God is not satisfied with the light only, nor are we, but we need the Spirit of adoption, crying Abba, Father. We identify our Father in the use of the double thought of Father, showing that He is securing His thought in us. We are identifying our Father, but He identifies us, because we are all sons, it is not simply a body of sons but many sons brought to glory.

W.S.S. Does the apostle speak here in the spirit of a son, as the result of what he had passed through; he learned the Lord in that way and could speak of Him as "the Beloved"?

J.T. Quite so, think of the pleasure God had in him, taking him to the third heaven, and then into paradise; he was at home there in the Spirit of sonship. He did not know whether he was in the body or out of it, but he was conscious of where he was, he had reached the third heaven, and had entered into paradise. He could identify things in those circumstances. All that only emphasises what has been remarked, as to the Spirit of sonship in Paul. He says, "God", "was pleased to reveal his Son in me". Galatians 1:15,16. The Father revealed the Son to Peter, but Paul is on the greatest level in these matters, and God revealed His Son in Paul; and that is what runs through these epistles.

W.S.S. Do you think Paul's imprisonment of which you have been speaking and which was evidently God's mind for him would be used to endear the Lord to his

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heart and give him a fuller impression of what Christ was as "the Beloved"?

J.T. Endear is a good word, and it is supported by the word of Paul in Galatians, "the Son of God who has loved me and given himself for me". Galatians 2:20. The Lord Jesus loved him individually, and gave Himself for him.

A.J.G. Does the expression "the Beloved" in that absolute way, cover the antitype of both David and of Solomon?

J.T. I was thinking of that. David's name means Beloved, and then Nathan is sent to name Solomon Jedidiah, which means, that Jehovah loved him. That is a remarkable distinction; there is no other babe except Jesus, that is so regarded, as far as I know. It is not said that the father loved the son as he was born, but that Jehovah loved him; it was a prophetic matter that Nathan was able to utter. Jehovah loved Solomon, and he is called Jedidiah.

G.H.M. Would it be right to link the thought of adoption with Genesis 48 when Jacob took Ephraim and Manasseh into the position of firstborn ones on account of what Joseph was to his heart.

J.T. Well, exactly, Joseph is clearly the leading thought in Jacob's mind. He made him a vest of many colours, he loved him more than all his sons, he was the son of his old age, and so the blessing of Joseph exceeded that of all others, the blessing of "him that was separated from his brethren". Genesis 49:26. Joseph's sons came in for adoption, and were elevated to the full tribal level of Reuben and Simeon, which involves sonship. So it is, that the assembly is spoken of as "the assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven". Hebrews 12:23. All this shows how God is thinking of love, as John says, "See what love the Father has given to us". 1 John 3:1. How it is stressed in the divine realm and in the divine vocabulary, and surely we should all become conversant with it, so that we love one another, and regard each other as

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firstborn ones; that is to say, in dignity, that love might prevail amongst us.

Ques. Do you see that also in Solomon. You have spoken of the prophetic side as regards Jedidiah, but did not God test Solomon as to what he loved, and he asks for an understanding heart to judge "this Thy numerous people", and it says "and the word pleased the Lord that Solomon had asked this thing". 1 Kings 3:9,10.

J.T. It would greatly enhance Solomon in God's mind because he was, you might say, the son of the father's love.

P.H.H. Such a view of the saints and their individuality allows for the thought of measure in each, does it? Whereas if we think of the assembly we think of just one vessel. Would the thought of measure come in peculiarly with Paul. He was able to take in the great thoughts of God and therefore they largely coloured his ministry. We may understand them in general, but they shine but feebly in our service.

J.T. We shall see that perhaps in chapter 3 where we come to measure. The apostle prayed that we may know the breadth and length and depth and height. These are creature thoughts, limited thoughts, but then we are "to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge; that ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God". Ephesians 3:19. So that we are in the divine realm, and in fixity as in it.

Ques. Is that not infinitude?

J.T. Well, that is what it is, just so, but we are in a fixed position.

Ques. Do we see that in what is said of John the baptist; "he shall be filled with the Holy Spirit"? Luke 1:15.

J.T. And then before he is born he leaps in the womb of his mother, showing that he was early moved in love and admiration for the Lord Jesus. It is a very striking thing in John the baptist, and how suitable he was to be the forerunner of Christ.

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PAUL'S MINISTRY AND THE SERVICE OF GOD (2)

Ephesians 2

J.T. Our inquiry this morning extended to chapter 1:14, so that there are other important points in the chapter to consider. First the apostle's personal consideration for the Ephesians which, it will be discerned, is important as we transfer the thoughts to ourselves, and we see the need of this personal consideration for brethren; it may be brethren at a distance or those nearby, or consideration called forth by some calamity or trouble. The spirit of Scripture would encourage this personal consideration for brethren. Ephesians 1:15,16 says, "Wherefore I also, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which is in you, and the love which ye have towards all the saints, do not cease giving thanks for you, making mention of you at my prayers", showing how ministers may become of general comfort through personal interest and solicitations, and it may be through affording physical relief. Hence christianity becomes what is, in fact, never otherwise than practical. The apostle's mind then runs on to certain features that entered into the moment, features which the Ephesians needed to include in their thoughts; such as the calling, and the power of God working in them, and above all the personal distinction and glory accruing to the Lord Jesus Himself, which must ever eclipse all else. It is especially seen here as the apostle uses such strength of language, as in verse 20, in which you find the work of God. He says, speaking of God's power "in which he wrought in the Christ in raising him from among the dead, and he set him down at his right hand in the heavenlies, above every principality, and authority, and power and dominion, and every name named, not only in this age, but also in that to come; and has put all things under his feet, and gave him to be head over all things to the assembly, which is his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all". Ephesians 1:20 - 23.

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It seems as if great advantage may accrue to the general fellowship as visiting or ministering brethren take personal interest as moved in affection toward the saints, and also select in their ministry truths needed to meet exigencies that may arise.

P.L. Would Pad's house-to-house service at Ephesus illustrate that?

J.T. Very good. I remember a brother, whom I met many years ago, who had known Mr. Darby in his labours in Canada. This brother met Mr. Darby in the streets of Toronto as he was visiting the saints from house to house, for it was a peculiar feature of his service. There was also a brother in that area who was known for his writings, eventually erroneous writings, but he failed to visit the saints. He was given over to using numbers in the exposition of Scripture, basing everything on numbers, and the comment of Mr. Darby was that he wished he knew the numbers of the houses of the saints.

F.J.F. We would know each other in assembling together if that took place?

J.T. You are alluding to Acts 1, I suppose, and Acts 20. In Acts 1, it is said that the Lord assembled with the apostles, and in Acts 20:7, Luke says, "we being assembled to break bread". It is a love chapter in the book of Acts, and it is said that certain brothers from different parts of the field, in which Paul had worked had accompanied him. When they were assembled the apostle discoursed for a long time, till midnight, and then Luke says, that Eutychus, sitting at the window opening, fell and was taken up for dead. All this points to the labours of God's servants, and how varied their circumstances may be, and the services rendered, at any given time, especially in adversity.

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Ques. Would the object of such visitations be to bring the level of the generality of the saints to the servant's own outlook?

J.T. Well, I suppose so. Seven brothers accompanied the apostle, and evidently with interest in his labours and thinking to help in their results if possible, especially to keep the doctrine right among the saints. The first one mentioned was a Berean, whose exercise would be that there should be no novelties given out in ministry, that the Scriptures should be the test of everything.

Rem. It says in Acts 17, that they searched the Scriptures, to see if these things were so, "Therefore many from among them believed". Acts 17:12. Believing was connected with the Scriptures and not necessarily with the word of Paul. As an example, I was thinking of the question of the Lord's Person. Certain brethren took the past ministry and the present and said there was some discrepancy, and while they were speaking on these lines the Scriptures were not opened. There is a tendency at times not to go to the Scriptures to confirm the ministry that is presented.

J.T. Therefore the work of the Berean is needed. So here in Ephesians 1:13,14 "in whom also, having believed, ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the earnest of our inheritance to the redemption of the acquired possession to the praise of his glory". Having believed, the sealing followed, but not automatically, but it followed the believing.

A.J.G. Would you say a word as to what is involved in "the faith in the Lord Jesus which is in you", Ephesians 1:15?

J.T. Evidently it is a comment on the state of the Ephesians; they are spoken of, not only in the Acts, but in Revelation 2, by the Lord, as having tried those that were apostles, but were not, and they found them liars. The allusion to "the faith in the Lord Jesus" Ephesians 1:15, which was in them, would imply, I suppose, that the work of God progressed in them, progressed in the sense of

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the place of the Lord Jesus with them. The Lord is emphasised in the work at Ephesus more than God, both here and in the Acts.

A.J.G. It is one of two features marking the Ephesians which the apostle specially brings forward, as the basis of his prayer for them, and I suppose faith in the Lord Jesus would involve faith of a somewhat developed character.

J.T. Something in the sense of a personal touch in the Lord Jesus. The words of the Lord Jesus also are mentioned in Acts 20.

J.H.T. Why were the twelve men at Ephesus said to be "baptised to the name of the Lord Jesus". Acts 19:5 In Acts 10:48 Peter baptised "in the name of the Lord"?

J.T. Whereas in Matthew 28:19 the baptism is "to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". The two references that you make would have in mind the personal touches to the souls of the persons baptised. In Acts 10:44 as Peter spoke the word, it is recorded, "the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were hearing the word". They were hearing while he was preaching, and the Spirit acted Himself evidently with personal feeling towards the persons involved, because it was the incoming of the gentiles, and in this the Spirit evidently took peculiar interest. I think it is right to say that divine Persons take peculiar interest in some matters, and I believe it was seen there in the incoming of the gentiles. The baptism carried that thought, I think.

S.McC. Do you have in mind in relation to this personal interest and contact between the one who serves and the saints, that the fulness of Paul's ministry is to be entered upon not merely through an academical ministry, but through ministry allied with this contact amongst the saints, affecting them by what the minister is himself?

J.T. Well, and how he followed up the work through personal interest, because it is not simply said that they had faith, but that he had heard of it,

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"wherefore I also, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which is in you, and the love which ye have towards all the saints, do not cease giving thanks for you, making mention of you at my prayers". Ephesians 1:15,16. All these remarks involve personal interest, and as you say, it is not simply academical work through words and preachings, and what we may call platform work, but as already remarked house-to-house work, visiting the saints, seeking them out, seeking to find out where they are in their souls, so that they should be grounded in the truth, and that love might be operative there.

Ques. The particular place the Lord Jesus has would be apprehended, and as a result there would be fixity in the souls of the saints. Is this not so when things are connected with the Lord Jesus?

J.T. And especially when the souls of the saints are set on the Lord Jesus and on the great glory of His person as implied in these verses. The wording is really wonderful as to the Lord personally; it is said, that he is set down "at his right hand in the heavenlies, above every principality, and authority, and power, and dominion, and every name named". Ephesians 1:20,21. What a complete eclipsing of all mere names, and how wholesome it is in us who do seek to serve the Lord and His people when we are ready to disappear that He may be glorified.

T.H. In Acts 20:35 Paul reminds them of the words of the Lord Jesus and says "I have shewed you all things". Would that be relative to visiting and personal contact?

J.T. And giving too; "It is more blessed to give than to receive"; Acts 20:35; that was the word, I would judge it was possibly a phrase that the blessed Lord often used. It was what He Himself said, which is very touching.

W.D. Is the completeness seen in Acts 20, in the references to the activity or selection of the Spirit, verse 28; the counsel of God, verse 27; and the words of the Lord Jesus, verse 35? He brings in all three of the divine Persons.

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J.T. Well, it was a real finishing point, because they were not to see his face again; it was an epoch in a sense, and affected the saints profoundly, and you wonder whether there is any such love current now as that, especially what is implied in the reference to seeing his face no more, and the personal touches between them.

Rem. That surely exists now.

J.T. Well, I would say it does, but it seems as if it might be accentuated. Of course we do not embrace each other as they used to, and as they still do on the Continent, but anyway the shaking of hand might be more real, and the manifestation of personal interest in each other.

J.T.Jr. Paul went up to make the acquaintance of Peter.

J.T. Quite so, there was a personal matter in it, too. He went up for that purpose, not merely to see Jerusalem, or to see the brethren even, but to see Peter, and he spent fifteen days with him, showing how personal the visit was.

S.McC. Do you not think that especially in regard to those that are ministering, there should be those blessed relationships between us in view of the saints being affected rightly.

J.T. Quite so. So that our intercourse between meetings and between services, should take on a more elevated character, a more profitable character. We have in this very epistle an allusion to that; it is said in Ephesians 5:17 - 21, "For this reason be not foolish, but understanding what is the will of the Lord. And be not drunk with wine, in which is debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and chanting with your heart to the Lord; giving thanks at all times for all things to him who is God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting yourselves to one another in the fear of Christ".

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And in verses Ephesians 5:3 - 6 of the chapter we are told what things do not become saints, "but rather thanksgiving". I allude to these matters in a practical way that our intercourse between ministry should be maintained at an exalted level; as also our relations with each other, brothers and sisters, in our houses as well as in the meetings.

E.C.M. The apostle brings Timothy forward on the line you are suggesting; he says of him, "I have no one like-minded who will care with genuine feeling how ye get on". Philippians 2:20.

J.T. Well, it is thought well that these remarks should be made to complete the instruction of chapter 1, and then to go on to chapter 2 which alludes to the subjective side as over against the objective in chapter 1. It refers to subjective power of the truth, and again we have you in the first verse.

L.P.M. You made a remark earlier as to the second chapter being love in the presence of adversity. Is it in your mind to pursue that?

J.T. Quite so, to show that love is seen in the second chapter in the presence of opposition, whereas in the first chapter it is in its own home, love is at home as it were, and there the counsels of God are unfolded, and all the secret glories that are involved. But now we are dealing with the thoughts of love in adversity, in opposition. And so it is said, "You, being dead in your offences and sins -- in which ye once walked according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom we also all once had our conversation in the lusts of our flesh, doing what the flesh and the thoughts willed to do, and were children by nature, of wrath, even as the rest". Ephesians 2:1 - 3. So it is the "great love" (of God) "wherewith he loved us"; Ephesians 2:4; but it is in adversity, in circumstances of opposition; spiritual wickedness in high places in opposition.

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P.L. It is so to say, love's dip into time, and its triumph there that is emphasised.

J.T. Quite so. God had come down into time, and into the world in all its characteristics to quicken men, not simply to save them, although salvation is in mind, but here in Ephesians it is a question of quickening, that God would bring us into life in the midst of all that.

Ques. Would Joseph going to seek his brethren be love working in opposition with a view to life being brought in later?

J.T. Very good; it had a long way to go, but it went; when we come to Genesis 45 we find how love triumphed in Joseph, how he embraced his brethren.

P.H.H. When it says, "has quickened us with the Christ", Ephesians 2:5, are we holding in our minds the great things which are said about Christ, at the end of chapter 1? Thus is His person greatly magnified in our minds?

J.T. You are connecting the great things said of the Lord at the end of chapter 1, with God having quickened us with the Christ?

P.H.H. Does that serve to magnify the work of God in quickening us with Him?

J.T. The work of quickening is stressed here. Our being saved is spoken of, but it is the fact that is referred to as is pointed out in the footnote, not the means of salvation, so that salvation is a finished matter here. But quickening is a further thought, and a greater thought really, because we are associated with Christ in it. We are quickened with Him, and it is because of the great love of God. Ephesians 2:4 - 6 reads "but God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love wherewith he loved us (we too being dead in offences) has quickened us with the Christ, (ye are saved by grace), and has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus". We are dealing with great things, not simply with gospel results, although they are touched on, but referred to in the fact of salvation and

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stating that it is a fixed matter, but quickening going with it links the whole position up with greater heights, and therefore we have a further thought, "that he might display in the coming ages the surpassing riches of his grace in kindness towards us in Christ Jesus". Ephesians 2:7. We are lifted out of all the degradation that sin involved, and the wickedness in heavenly places; we are lifted out of the whole realm of the effects of sin, not only into the realm of life but into the heavenlies. It is presented to us now as if God would stress in our minds the greatness of what we are in now, in view of our translation; we are already in the heavenlies.

A.J.G. Does quickening with the Christ involve power in us to take up this position already?

J.T. Well, that is what I think. We are in the presence of the greatest things in the sense of life; we are raised up together and made to sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus, and with a view to the full display in the future.

R.B. Is the full thought of quickening seen in Ezekiel 37:14, "I will put my Spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I will place you in your own land"?

J.T. That, of course, is the raising up of Israel. What we are dealing with is an assembly matter. What Ezekiel refers to is a national matter, Israel raised up to life in a national sense.

F.J.F. Do we realise this quickening power in coming together in assembly?

J.T. Well, that is what I thought. It becomes very practical and blessed in our services in the assembly and the service of God must come up in our minds in all these allusions; it is not simply doctrine, but practical. The practicalness of it in the service of God, would come into evidence after we are in full line with the Spirit in the procedure of the service of God proceeding from glory to glory. It is to enable us to take our place in the heavenlies in the faith of our souls, as it is said in

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Colossians 2:12, "ye have been also raised with him through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead". It is a question of faith there, raised by faith; that is, faith laying hold of the operation of God as applicable to us in the power of the Spirit at the present time in the service of God.

Ques. Would the idea of sitting down, "being made to sit down", induce the spirit of restfulness?

J.T. Well, the sitting down would mean that, what we may arrive at in assembly service in the power of the Spirit. We often speak of the glory, the glories that enter into the service of God, and it is really from glory to glory, and the sitting down would imply that we are restful in the light of the position, as completely free from what may be current outside.

Eu.R. That you in the first verse would refer to the saints at Ephesus. He wanted them to leave all sense of locality and arrive at the great thoughts of God for the saints universally?

J.T. And so in our assembly gatherings we are to rise to the full assembly position in the universal sense. We begin with the local position, but we reach full assembly position, it depends on faith, on the one hand, and the Spirit on the other, because the faith of the operation of God is not simply a matter of light, but of power.

Ques. Would that involve state in the saints?

J.T. Well, it would.

P.L. So that in spirit we are not thinking of the earth although there physically?

J.T. Well, we are thinking of where we are in heavenly places, if we have power for it. We have to keep that in mind, that He has made us to sit down in heavenly places.

Ques. The apostle has asked in his prayer in chapter 1, "that ye should know", "the surpassing greatness of his power towards us who believe, according to the working of the might of his strength, in which he wrought in the Christ in raising him from among the dead". Ephesians 1:18 - 20.

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Is this quickening power the power that is to be realised in chapter 2?

J.T. Well, it would be, in the measure in which it can be said, in this provisional time. What we are speaking of now in chapter 2 is not literal resurrection, but power already realised because of the fact of the Spirit's presence, the power that lies there. It is a question of the faith we have, and the power we have reached in our souls. It is not literal resurrection, we take the ground of being raised anticipatively, for we are not yet literally in heavenly places.

W.D. Would this feature "together" be important in view of translation?

J.T. It is. We love one another now; that is really what is meant, we would move up together; we have no other thought than being with the brethren. If we are to be in heaven we want to be with them there.

Ques. Is that shown by the way Paul, in speaking of them says, "we are his workmanship", Ephesians 2:10, including himself with them?

J.T. Quite so.

Eu.R. In the faith of our souls do we take up the position of the twelve stones reared up on the land side of the Jordan. It is our association in life.

J.T. That is what is meant. If we have not the Spirit here, that must fall to the ground, for all this side of the truth involves the Spirit, because we are still in a provisional position, and it is dependent on the Holy Spirit, not simply light, but the Spirit.

Ques. Would that be the working out of "the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the earnest of our inheritance"? Ephesians 1:13,14.

J.T. Just so, and it is very beautiful that it is so presented in 2 Corinthians. "Now he that" "has anointed us, is God, who also has sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts". 2 Corinthians 1:21,22. That is alluded to in the first chapter.

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"Ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the earnest of our inheritance to the redemption of the acquired possession to the praise of his glory". Ephesians 1:13,14.

P.H.H. "We are his workmanship". Ephesians 2:10. Does that mean that we are equal to the heavenly position?

J.T. I would say that. God is able to present us faultless in the presence of His glory. He is able to do that, "The power which works in us", Ephesians 3:20, implies that too.

F.J.F. Would there be anything analogous to what you were saying this morning with regard to Paul being caught up, in this of which we are now speaking?

J.T. Only that he was literally raised up, as far as the third heaven and into paradise.

S.McC. "Having been created in Christ Jesus", Ephesians 2:10; does that allude to what is abstract, or actual now?

J.T. I think that is more than abstract. The thing had taken place, because it is in view of good works that we should walk in. Of course, that will look forward to the future, but evidently it has a bearing now. It is the character of the thing that is in mind, that there is such a thing as being created now, we know we have part in new creation. "If any one be in Christ, there is a new creation", 2 Corinthians 5:17, but that implies that someone has part in it, and hence the significance of what Paul says there, "if even we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we know him thus no longer", 2 Corinthians 5:16. Already we have come into new creation, we do not know even Christ as He used to be. New creation implies that we have in some sense come into things, because it is a real thing already; there is, of course, a fulness that we have not come in to, because we are not yet literally raised, but there is something, the new creation is already existent, or there would be no christianity.

Ques. Is it what we speak of as formation in the souls of the saints?

J.T. Yes, exactly.

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P.H. H. The whole of the future being anticipated by the fact of new creation having taken place.

J.T. New creation has taken place. Quite so.

Ques. Would the "good works" show that the work of God in new creation is clearly identifiable now?

J.T. Quite so. It would be a poor thing if we could not say that. There would be really no christianity if there was no new creation.

W.S.S. "If anyone be in Christ, there is a new creation". 2 Corinthians 5:17.

J.T. That is a definite statement, not simply that he is a new creation, but there is such a thing. The inference in the context is that the believer is a new creation already.

J.H.T. In Revelation 2, do first love and first works go together. The Lord recalls Ephesus to the first works, does He not?

J.T. Well, the Lord brings forward the first works, but he does not ask, or suggest that they are to return to first love. There is a tangibleness in first works, but as to first love, the Lord says, "thou hast left thy first love", Revelation 2:4, He does not say that she should return to first love.

J.T.S. We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works. If the saints are walking in love, "even as the Christ loved us", Ephesians 5:2, the features of Christ thus coming into evidence in the saints, would that be an evidence of divine workmanship?

J.T. I should think so, absolutely. Love is the thing, it never fails in all these matters. It becomes the practical expression of God's working.

A.H.G. Would you say more as to good works? Works seem to be very important here, and elsewhere.

J.T. Well, we have a very tangible thought here; they are "good works, which God has before prepared, that we should walk in them". Ephesians 2:10. I am just wondering whether the preparation was not in Christ, in His walk, without there being a direct allusion to it.

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A.J.G. Would it link at all with "all things which Jesus began both to do and to teach"? Acts 1:1.

J.T. Just so; very good. That would be the standard of works.

Ques. Paul in writing to the Philippians refers to those things that had been seen in himself and then he says, "these things do". Philippians 4:9. We are to meditate on certain things, but then he says, Do them. Have you that in mind?

J.T. Quite so. The exhortations of Paul are practical, and they make the thing real. We are in realistic times as to the working of evil, and God is looking for realistic features of the truth, and so the reference in Acts 1:1, to "all things which Jesus began both to do and to teach"; both to do and to teach. John's gospel is full of allusions to teaching, and the teaching in Acts 1, according to Luke, is linked up with what the Lord did. If we were to look through Luke to see what the Lord did in ordinary matters, and how much He did in works of grace, the Lord's gracious works and services, and then the teaching of the Lord going with the works, how great the instruction. In the early chapters of the Acts we learn that the converts "persevered in the teaching and fellowship, of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers". Acts 2:42 These are practical things in christianity.

P.L. So that Luke treats of the Lord journeying and teaching, the good Samaritan and His good works as He journeyed.

J.T. "I must needs announce the glad tidings of the kingdom of God to other cities also", Luke 4:43, the Lord says, showing how persistent He was in working.

H.W.O. Are good works the normal acts of one who has part in new creation?

J.T. Well, we have to go by what we have here, the good works are said to be prepared that we should walk in them. They are not simply things that we may do in meeting need and the like, but it seems as if God has a standard in the idea of good works. They are already

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prepared, and I believe that they allude to what the Lord Jesus did.

W.S.S. Are they not presented to us as something positive with which we are to be occupied? The statements here would greatly help us, as we allow our minds to dwell upon them.

J.T. Yes. Now to come down to verse 11, to get the full bearing of the chapter; we have already alluded to the subjective feature as over against the first chapter, so that he says, "Wherefore remember that ye" (meaning ourselves -- the gentiles), "once nations in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that called circumcision in the flesh done with the hand; that ye were at that time without Christ, aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: but now in Christ Jesus ye who once were afar off are become nigh by the blood of the Christ. For he is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of enclosure, having annulled the enmity in his flesh, the law of commandments in ordinances, that he might form the two in himself into one new man, making peace; and might reconcile both in one body to God by the cross, having by it slain the enmity; and, coming, he has preached the glad tidings of peace to you who were afar off, and the glad tidings of peace to those who were nigh". Ephesians 2:11 - 17. This section implies, bringing it down to ourselves, that enmity and what results from it; and personal enmity and dislike, are all met and overthrown in what we get in this chapter, and that one body takes the place; that is, two are made one, the two elements formed into one on the basis of redemption and by the subjective work of the Spirit here now on earth. It is applied to the gentiles, and so it runs on in Ephesians 2:18 - 22, "For through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father. So then ye are no longer strangers and foreigners, but ye are fellow-citizens of the saints, and

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of the household of God, being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the corner-stone, in whom all the building fitted together increases to a holy temple in the Lord; in whom ye also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit". These are the results among the gentiles. The Jew and gentile first formed into one new man, so making peace, showing how thorough the work is, that we get in this epistle.

J.G.M. What are the covenants of promise spoken of here?

J.T. I would say those made to Abraham, particularly those made to the patriarchs in Genesis. There may be later promises, but I would think the allusion is to Genesis. There are no covenants made with us directly as members of the assembly. The new covenant was never made with us. It was made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, and will have place later. Its place in the Lord's supper is in the sense of the spirit of it. If we enter into the spirit of it, in some sense, we have some little enjoyment of it.

Ques. Is what Paul outlines here illustrated in the book of Ruth? She was a Moabitess, and not entitled to come into the congregation of Israel even to the tenth generation, but on the ground of grace she is brought into union with the man of wealth.

J.T. All he says here as regards that point is that, "ye were at that time without Christ, aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". Ephesians 2:12. He does not imply that even now, through grace, we have a part in the commonwealth of Israel, or the covenants of promise. This epistle means that we are lifted far above all these things, that we have greater things.

Ques. Is the christian level, "For through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father"? Ephesians 2:18.

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J.T. Quite so. The covenants of promise did not come up to that at all, although the apostle makes a point of it that they were strangers to them, but then he is showing that they have come into greater things.

F.J.F. Do they not disappear with the man to whom they were presented being judged, and disappearing in the death of Christ?

J.T. Well, every promise of God is, yea and amen, in Christ. We must recognise that nothing has failed, but we are lifted above all these things which pertain specially to Israel, although they are coming into their own promises presently.

W.S.S. What have you in mind in speaking of what is positive here? Is it what comes out in these closing verses, that we have access, and are fellow-citizens, and are built together, there is that which is positive to be engaged with. We are greatly established and strengthened if we dwell upon what is stated positively.

J.T. Quite so. And moreover, the chapter runs on to the fact that the gentiles are now already themselves built up for a habitation of God by the Spirit, and we ourselves, gentiles, are come into that, far beyond the covenants of promise, and moreover, the assembly grows to a holy temple in the Lord.

S.McC. It is striking, that while the whole chapter is speaking of God, verse 18 should be introduced referring to the Father. Would the present economy and what is peculiar to it, be particularly in mind in that?

J.T. No doubt. We constantly refer to these verses. "For through him" (Christ) "we have both access by one Spirit to the Father". Ephesians 2:18. It is, you might say, our great charter in the service of God at the present time. It is a present matter.

Eu.R. What is the difference in thought between that and what we have in Ephesians 2:13, "in Christ Jesus ye who once were afar off are become nigh by the blood of Christ"?

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J.T. Well, made nigh by blood, of course, would allude to what we find in the gospel. The blood of Christ is presented in the gospel, and by it we are made nigh to God, but the drawing nigh by the Spirit is more positive, involving life and affection.

H.C. We are outside the range of the covenants of promise, but we are not outside the range of the Holy Spirit of promise.

J.T. Well, that is good.

Ques. Would you say a word on "form the two in himself into one new man". Ephesians 2:15. Does that bring out the entirely spiritual character of the workmanship?

J.T. Well, I think it brings out too the power of Christ's influence; what it can do in overcoming the terrible feelings. The terrible feelings in the Jews, and the gentiles, as adverse one to the other, but the Lord Jesus has come in and exercises His powerful influence to bring them together in affection.

L.P.M. Is chapter 2 one of the great triumphs of love in that setting? Does that express the great triumph of love in the presence of adversity, bringing things together in this way.

J.T. Just so; it is a triumph of love in adverse conditions, mounting up to the work of the devil in the heavenlies; we have to contend with that. It is an awful thing, but we have to contend with it, and it is becoming accentuated now in the terrible doctrines that are current.

P.H.H. What is the force of the expression, "increases to a holy temple in the Lord"? Ephesians 2:21.

J.T. I understand it to be what the assembly will be presently. It is already a temple according to 1 Corinthians 3:16, in virtue of the presence of the Spirit of God. "Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you"? Whereas in this chapter, it is growing to that, and I believe it alludes to what the assembly would become in clarifying the millennial conditions. They will not be as clear as things are to us

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now, but they will be clarified, I believe, by the assembly.

H.C. Had Paul in mind the maintenance of love and the truth on a right level, in adverse conditions, when he said to Timothy, "I begged thee to remain in Ephesus". 1 Timothy 1:3.

J.T. Just so, likewise the situation at Crete, that Titus had to do with. It was a difficult matter, but he stayed there; the apostle left him there to put things right.

M.H.T. Would love in the two settings in which you have referred to it; that is, in its home, and then in adversity, be seen in the invocation to the ark, in Numbers 10:35, when it moved forward? Moses said "Rise up, Jehovah, and let thine enemies be scattered; and let them that hate thee flee before thy face", and when it rested Moses said "Return, Jehovah, unto the myriads of the thousands of Israel". Numbers 10:36.

J.T. A beautiful thought, especially in its relation to Moses' wish that Hobab should go with them, to show them the way, to be eyes to them. Instead of that the ark itself acted for Israel; it went out of its place to search out a resting-place for them, taking three days' journey, involving really as a type, the death of the Lord Jesus.

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PAUL'S MINISTRY AND THE SERVICE OF GOD (3)

Ephesians 3; Ephesians 5:22,23

J.T. The proposal to link chapter 3 with the passage read in chapter 5 is because both passages enter into the service of God in its present phases, and it is likely that remarks and questions will include both passages. One meeting may not suffice to cover the ground indicated, so that we can easily pursue the subject of these chapters at the afternoon meeting, if necessary. In the main the third chapter treats of Paul's own exercises and service, especially his knowledge of the mystery. Chapter 5 in the section read, also treats of the mystery, but more in its marital phases. Chapter 3 is somewhat personal to the apostle, calling attention to his imprisonment, only that his imprisonment was not because of felony, but because of his testimony. He was a prisoner of Christ Jesus, on account of the nations; as if the Lord detained him in Rome in order to work out in him the truth as to the nations. He refers to the accounts that the Ephesians had known or heard of the administration given to him by God, as he says, "For this reason I Paul, prisoner of the Christ Jesus for you nations, if indeed ye have heard of the administration of the grace of God which has been given to me towards you, that by revelation the mystery has been made known to me, (according as I have written before briefly, by which, in reading it, ye can understand my intelligence in the mystery of the Christ)". Ephesians 3:1 - 4. He is concerned that the Ephesians should know the extent of his intelligence as to the mystery, and these allusions, of course, bring up the whole matter of intelligence, not simply Paul's intelligence, but the bearing of intelligence now, and the importance of it. Some, perhaps, have more than others, but the apostle

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guards his own position in saying, that "To me, less than the least of all saints, has this grace been given". Ephesians 3:8. This would, of course, mean his own estimation of himself, indicating his humility.

F.J.F. Is intelligence the fruit of love?

J.T. Well, one can understand that God would not grant such intelligence as is indicated here to one who did not have love in large measure. We have already been looking into the matter of love, in chapters 1 and 2; chapter 1 treating of it in its own place, its own home, as we said; chapter 2 treating of it in the sphere of opposition, including the power of Satan in the heavenlies, but it was the same love in both cases, and now it is love in intelligence; how love in God can trust a servant with great intelligence, because such a one has love too, as Paul had.

A.J.G. What would be the point in Paul desiring that they should understand his intelligence in the mystery?

J.T. I think in the ordering of God it was right that such vast intelligence should at least be in someone, perhaps in no one as in Paul, because it might be dangerous to put it into the hands of one who was not wholly governed by love. We have often seen that, I think, that knowledge becomes dangerous in certain hands; in fact, Paul himself says it puffs up, but love builds up; so that what is needed in such a vast system of things as the mystery involves is that the truth should be built up structurally, so as to stand by itself.

W.C. Is the structure referred to in the reference to their "being rooted and founded in love"? Ephesians 3:17.

J.T. Quite so. Rooted and founded, meaning that the persons are rooted, their roots are in the right place, "take root downward", as we are told elsewhere, "and bear fruit upward"; 2 Kings 19:30; founding is a further thought, it is a structural thought. The word foundation is made much of in that sense, "the firm foundation of God stands", 2 Timothy 2:19, for instance.

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E.J.B. Is that why Solomon could be trusted with knowledge and wisdom to build, because he was a man that loved God and loved the brethren?

J.T. Just so. God was pleased with his prayer. He desired that he might know how to rule so great a people, not simply for his own account, but because they were God's people. God is pleased with that m his servants. If anything is entrusted to us, bearing on the testimony or on the saints, God looks for the desire in us that it should be worked out because of itself, because of its own importance viewed by itself.

Ques. Does the statement that what had been specially committed to Paul is now given to others; "revealed to his holy apostles and prophets in the power of the Spirit", Ephesians 3:5, show that the truth is extended in persons?

J.T. Just so. The holy apostles and prophets as well as Paul himself. You are glad to share with others what you have in that sense. In the case of the disciple who saw the Lord praying, he asked the Lord to teach them to pray. He was not thinking of himself only, he was thinking of all, that the knowledge of how to pray should be with all. So in the case of Nathanael, in John 1, the Lord speaks in the singular to him, but He also speaks in the plural, and uses the word ye. The Lord had said to him, "Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig-tree, I saw thee. Nathaniel answered and said to Him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God, thou art the King of Israel. Jesus answered and said to him, Because I said to thee, I saw thee under the fig-tree, believest thou? Thou shalt see greater things than these". John 1:48 - 50. And then, as if the Lord anticipated that He would be glad to have others to share in the greater things, He says, "Verily, verily, I say to you", this is plural, "Henceforth ye shall see the heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of man". John 1:51. The Lord evidently assumed that Nathanael would be glad that others should have this knowledge

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of the wonderful matters spoken of. Nathanael could not be exclusive as to this matter; others should have it too.

S.McC. What do you understand by this expression, "the administration of the grace of God"? Ephesians 3:2, He does not say, the administration of the love of God, but "the administration of the grace of God, which has been given to me towards you". Ephesians 3:2.

J.T. I suppose the thought of grace was needed, not simply the thought of love, but grace, because grace establishes and brings about enlargement on a lower level. So it is here, "if indeed ye have heard of the administration of the grace of God which has been given to me towards you, that by revelation the mystery has been made known to me, (according as I have written before briefly, by which, in reading it, ye can understand my intelligence in the mystery of the Christ,) which in other generations has not been made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets in the power of the Spirit, that they who are of the nations", Ephesians 3:2 - 6, and so forth. I would say that grace was needed in view of the matter extending so far afield; that is, to the nations; grace was needed in them to take it in.

P.H.H. How far does the feature of revelation apply today? It says, "that by revelation the mystery has been made known to me", Ephesians 3:3, and then later, "as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets". Ephesians 3:5. Would the first reference be unique to Paul? Would the second be by way of ministry, or would it be likewise a revelation to those other apostles and prophets.

J.T. Evidently it was to Paul first; whether he brought them into it, they were themselves joined in the great matter of testimony inaugurally, they were brought into it. It was due to them to be in it, being apostles. I would think that was how the apostle would regard the thing, not to coniine it to himself as to knowledge, but to extend it to others.

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A.J.G. In the first chapter he prays that the "God of our Lord Jesus Christ", "would give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation". Ephesians 1:17. Does that imply that the element of revelation or rather the spirit of it, has to enter into our understanding of these things?

J.T. Well, I think so. The position would be that once a matter was revealed others were to be brought into it. So in Matthew 16, the Lord had raised a question of what His disciples thought of Him as the Son of man, and immediately Peter says, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God", and the Lord said, "Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona, for flesh and blood has not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens". Matthew 16:16,17. The Father was the source of that revelation to Peter and the Father's thought would be that it should be among them all. Peter was distinguished and blessed in the fact that he had the revelation, yet the revelation being there it was common property, as it were, as truth. Some of us have thought and said, that the Lord carried on a community, for the disciples were like a community, of which He was the centre, and things would be spread amongst them. So that in the Acts, chapter 9, reference is made to "Peter passing through all quarters"; Acts 9:32; that is even before Cornelius was brought into the truth. Peter went to all quarters, meaning, it seems to me, that he was sensible, because of the Spirit of truth being current amongst the apostles, that a new order of things had been opened up already, new thoughts had been introduced. Paul was coming in, and all that was standing in relation to Paul, and that would mean, that the field of labour should be enlarged. Paul was to be made room for, and others too; Barnabas was coming in, and they were going out among the gentiles. I mean, that was in the Lord's mind, and it was current, for the Spirit of God was always present, from the time He came down. As here in the testimony He would be the vehicle of all that would come out; and it would no

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longer be a question of the truth being exclusive property, it belonged to all the saints, and especially to those ministering. Hence Peter said things that would bear on what Paul was about to promulgate in his special ministry; namely, local responsibility in the saints in the assemblies; not any longer what may be called metropolitanism, which was right at the beginning, when everything was centred in Jerusalem. The new thought was that a man should get up and make his bed for himself; that is local responsibility, and Peter enunciates that thought in Acts 9. It is soon set out in what Paul and Barnabas did in chapter 14, where the assemblies are visited and set up with elders for protection and support. Henceforth the idea of the assembly in a universal way would be held in the thought of "Thus I ordain in all the assemblies". 1 Corinthians 7:17. There is to be one principle, or one set of principles in all the assemblies, not any longer that any assembly would act for itself independently. It would act in relation to the general principle governing the assemblies.

Eu.R. While this epistle is addressed to the saints at Ephesus, locally he brings in what is universal in saying, "in order that ye may be fully able to apprehend with all the saints". Ephesians 3:18.

J.T. Well, that is good; it just confirms what we have been saying. It is well to take it in, because if anything is advocated by anyone, especially if he is sure that the Lord has given him something, he is not exclusive, he does not wish to be exclusive, he wishes it to be spread. It is the common property, as it were, of the saints, in the power of the Spirit.

Ques. Have you that thought of reception and spreading of the truth in the Lord's instruction in Matthew 13:51? He says, "Have ye understood all these things?" and then says that the "scribe discipled to the kingdom of the heavens is like a man that is a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old". Matthew 13:52.

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J.T. Very good. He would be conserving things and keeping them in order, and yet liberal in his outlook, so that he would readily extend them to others, for he brings them out of his treasure; he values the things himself, they are not common to him, and he would expect those that he would give them to to regard them according to their value, because they have their own value. Anyone who has anything from the Lord regards it according to its own value, and wishes others to regard it according to its own value. The truth has value, and is not to be regarded as a common thing to be accepted or rejected. The truth is one whole, the Spirit of God is here to guide us into all of it, the whole of it, and so if anyone has anything that is distinctive, he values it, according to what it is as the truth, but he expects others to value it too, and it is for each of us, and all of us, to be in the thing and promote it as a community, because it really is the common property in a sense, but not common in character, it is exalted, it is the truth.

A.A. In chapter 4 Paul speaks of the grace that is given to each according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

J.T. Paul is not saying that of himself specifically, he is saying what is to be regarded as current among the saints. He does not think of specific gift, but what is general, that every saint has something that he can use in the service of God, but of course, Paul is not putting himself on that level in chapter 3. He is speaking of what was exclusive to him, but also as it is spread abroad by him in his ministry; it is not common, only in the sense that the other apostles and prophets have part in it. John the apostle also says in his first epistle, that the apostles had a fellowship of their own; "our fellowship" he says. It was not shared in by all the saints, it was a fellowship that belonged to the apostles; "our fellowship is indeed with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ". 1 John 1:3.

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It did not extend to all the saints; it related to the apostles, their fellowship, and that fellowship was with the Father and the Son. The Father and the Son were setting out the testimony, but They brought the twelve into it, and in this they had a fellowship of their own, as it were; others had a fellowship with one another. That is an important matter to understand in John's epistle, that is to say, these grades, the Father, the Son, the apostles, and one another.

Eu.R. In the third epistle he says, "We therefore ought to receive such, that we may be fellow-workers with the truth". 3 John 1:18. There is the idea of a community in the truth.

J.T. I am glad this matter has come up, because it should be understood.

J.R. How do we "have fellowship with us"; that is, the apostles, according to 1 John 1:3? "that which we have seen and heard we report to you, that ye also may have fellowship with us; and our fellowship is indeed with the Father, and with his Son".

J.T. Well, that is the order in which the truth was inaugurated. Everything proceeded from the Father and the Son. In John's gospel, from chapter 13 to chapter 17 there is much that you do not get elsewhere, but it is what the Father and the Son had and the disciples were brought into that. The Lord is labouring in those chapters to have the saints, the apostles I mean, in view of the coming in of the Spirit, fully furnished with the setting out of the truth. The Spirit of truth, the other Comforter, coming in, according to chapter 14, would enable them to hold it together, but it would be in relation to the Father and the Son, not necessarily yet with the whole assembly, but in order to establish the position of the apostles. According to facts set out in Acts 2, the early converts persevered in the apostles' doctrine; that is to say, they would talk about what the twelve were talking about; anything of the truth that the

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twelve would give out; and, of course, it was constantly coming through them. Well, each convert would see to it that he had part in that, what the apostles were going on with.

Ques. Would Paul's desire that the saints might have "the spirit of wisdom and revelation", Ephesians 1:17, show his recognition that, whatever he might do in the way of service, God must do something in the saints, if the ministry is to find currency generally?

J.T. Well, just so. The work of God must go on in the saints as well; that is to say, if the whole structure of truth is to be participated in by the saints, there must be the work of God, and hence the great point for us in these matters, is the presence of the Spirit. That is not simply what happened while the Lord was here on the earth in flesh and blood, but what happened as He went up to heaven, and the Spirit came down, because that was really when christianity was inaugurated.

Ques. When Paul says, that "ye can understand my intelligence in the mystery", Ephesians 3:4, does he allow that Peter also had a revelation in Matthew 16 and Acts 10, which would be generally known by the saints, but that the revelation of the mystery which was specific to him, completed the word of God and gave the assembly its final and distinctive setting.

J.T. In Colossians he tells us of the number of ministries he had, and amongst the things he mentions is that he completed the word of God, and Peter would recognise that.

Ques. Are you trying to help us as to being in the truth livingly as knowing it?

J.T. Well, just so. What we are aiming at now is not simply what was, but what is, and whether what was may be present in operation, that we may all come into it. We are seeking to get at the truth as a whole. Although we are dealing with special parts of it, yet what is in mind is that the Spirit shall guide us into all the truth,

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and it is a question of our moving in this way, so that in whatever part of the country or the world we may reside, we may be holding divine things in the sense of a community, and that we are all in it. The Spirit of God is ready to help us wherever we are, so as to bring out the unity of the truth, that we may "arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ". Ephesians 4:13.

H.W. Would you say a word on "the Spirit is the truth"? 1 John 5:6.

J.T. Well, that is important. The Lord said of Himself I am "the way, the truth and the life". 1 John 14:6. He was the truth when He was down here, but now that He is up in heaven, the Spirit is the truth, and that is an important matter, because of what christianity involves. It is the day of the Spirit now really, as we have often said; and the Spirit is to govern everything in relation to the service and testimony. He is here on the behalf of Christ, another Comforter, on the same footing, but another Comforter. He is sent from heaven; Christ was not sent from heaven, He came Himself; He was sent as here on earth; He was sent by the Father, but He came from heaven, the Son of man which is in heaven; the Spirit was sent from heaven; 1 Peter 1:12.

W.C. What you are saying would fit in with John's remark in his first epistle, chapter 2, "a new commandment", "which thing is true in him and in you". 1 John 2:8.

J.T. Well, that is good; that is to say the Spirit having come it is so, it was true in Him only when He was here after the flesh, but now that He has gone to heaven, having accomplished redemption, it is true in the saints as well, and that is because of the Spirit being here.

Ques. Do I understand that "the Spirit is the truth", 1 John 5:6, is a subjective thought?

J.T. Quite so; it is most important to have it in mind.

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It is a question of what is in the saints, what is current in us, operating in us.

Ques. Would not the washing in Ephesians 5 be on that line?

J.T. Well, quite so, but it is in view of the assembly specifically, "the washing of water by the word". Ephesians 5:26.

F.J.F. Is it so, that the Spirit being present there is capacity in the saints to take in the truth ministered? Would that be an encouragement to those who minister?

J.T. Everything depends on the Spirit, even the new birth, as all other things. All is dependent on the presence of the Holy Spirit here on earth, only it is a subjective thought; in a certain way He is viewed objectively, but generally He is viewed subjectively; that is, He is viewed as in us, but His doings, His operations are in us.

A.J.G. Do you mean not merely in the way of intelligence, but also in the way of formation in accord with the intelligence?

J.T. Quite so, as power for all operational power is in the Spirit.

S.McC. Would not this help us very much at the present time, especially when there is a danger of crystallising certain terms in relation to the truth? We may say that what is coming out now differs a little from what came out before, but a recognition of the Spirit in relation to this is most important.

J.T. Just so. If we go over the ground since the beginning of the revival, much has had to be corrected, but in general the truth went on, it was one idea, the truth is one whole.

H.F.N. Why does it say in regard to the Spirit of truth that He "goes forth from with the Father"? John 15:26. What would be the emphasis in coming forth from with the Father in relation to the truth?

J.T. I think it is good to bring that up, because it is that passage particularly that clarifies the position of the twelve, as compared with the position of the Spirit.

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They had a place of their own, just as we have already remarked as John said, "our fellowship is indeed with the Father and with his Son". 1 John 1:3. But then the Spirit proceeded from the Father, knowing full well what the Father thought about the Son, and He brought out immediate first-hand knowledge of the Father's feelings, His feelings about the Son. So that there were two things then current, that is to say the Spirit having come forth would bear witness, and then, "ye also shall bear witness", John 15:27, ye also, is the Lord's way of calling attention to the twelve. They had been with Him from the beginning, shared His afflictions, and they had distinction that none others had or will have. I believe that is what is in mind there.

Ques. The Lord said, "Every one that is of the truth hears my voice". John 18:37. Is that in contrast to the spirit seen in Pilate who did not pay heed to the voice of the Lord?

J.T. Just so, the spirit of the world was in Pilate, but there is the Spirit of truth that we have spoken of much. When anything is communicated now the Spirit communicates it, but it cannot be exactly new. It cannot be a revelation in the full sense because Paul said that he had completed the word of God. But the Spirit being here, as anything is revived or reissued and becomes current among the brethren, the thought would be to spread it, but first let us verify it, to be assured that it is the truth, and then spread it. When "the Lord gives the word, great the host of the publishers", Psalm 68:11. I mean to say that faithfulness, a knowledge of the truth, and love of it, will publish it, and not hold it in any exclusive way, for it is a common matter, so to speak; it should be spread abroad.

Ques. Is there a suggestion of that with Peter's word in regard of Paul? He speaks of our beloved brother Paul, and then of the things that he was saying as though he would help to spread it among the saints.

J.T. Just so.

Ques. Does Paul's own outlook show itself in the

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word enlighten? He says, "and to enlighten all with the knowledge of what is the administration of the mystery". Ephesians 3:9. Does that bear on the present time?

J.T. Well, quite so, and that will come into consideration more fully later, I think, when we are dealing with the gifts in chapter 4. Paul had gift, as the others had; he had the gift of an apostle, the gift of an evangelist, the gift of a teacher, and he used these gifts; but as to revelation, that was not gift. I think it is in the power of gift that the truth is to be spread abroad.

Ques. Would we see something of the same thing in the exercise of Samuel? He "judged Israel all the days of his life. And he went from year to year in circuit to Bethel, and Gilgal, and Mizpah, and judged Israel in all those places. And his return was to Ramah; for there was his house, and there he judged Israel; and there he built an altar to Jehovah". 1 Samuel 7:15 - 17. His concern seems to be that all Israel should be founded and built up upon the same principles.

J.T. Well, I think that is good, he was the representative, you might say, of the word of God at that time, a chosen vessel, a trusted vessel, and honoured in the sense that his words did not fall to the ground. That means that the saints held them in their hearts, they fell into the hearts of the saints; that is really what is meant. So that the truth is to be in our hearts.

P.H.H. Would God calling Bezaleel and Aholiab, as well as giving Moses the pattern, be on the principle of what you are saying, so that everything might be constructed properly and understood by the saints? It says, "Jehovah has called by name Bezaleel", "and he has filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship", Exodus 35:30:31. Would that be for the spread of the truth according to the pattern?

J.T. Quite so, so that Moses was over all as apostle. It was not the office of the priest to receive communications

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exactly; it was the apostle that received communications from Jehovah. And in Numbers 7 it is said that Moses went in to speak to God. He had in mind to speak to God, but God spoke to him, as if God is saying to Moses that He is communicating to him. It was the time of revelation, and therefore He spoke to Moses. I believe that passage is what is in mind throughout, when it is said, that "Jehovah spoke to Moses, saying". Numbers 7:4. God took up the attitude of revealing things in speaking to Moses from between the cherubim; the authoritative position that He took up in order to unfold the law, the service and all else; it was given to Moses. But then God gave wisdom to the two men spoken of, which would be the idea of extending or, in Paul's time, for example, the idea of gift. So that the Lord would say the word through Paul, because Paul completed it, but then the gifts would come into the spreading of the thing, whether in the gospel or the ministry of other kinds.

Ques. How does Paul's word in Acts 20:27 come in? He says, "I have not shrunk from announcing to you, all the counsel of God".

J.T. Well, that would be his ministry; that would not be simply the thought of revelation; it was Paul's ministry, what he declared in ministry, he had not shunned to do so, he tells the Ephesians.

J.F.G. Does verse 4 of our chapter set out the matter for us? He says, "according as I have written before briefly", Ephesians 3:3, I take it that would refer to what was revealed to him and then, "by which, in reading it, ye can understand my intelligence". Ephesians 3:4. Would that relate to the dissemination of the truth which you are calling our attention to?

J.T. Well, I think that is right. Some may think it is some other word that he had given, but anyway, he says it is "according as I have written before briefly, by which, in reading it, ye can understand my intelligence in the mystery of the Christ". Ephesians 3:4. Whatever the communication was, it conveyed something of this ministry, that

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is what I would understand. When we come to chapter 4, we shall be, perhaps, in a position to take up the question of gift, the ground on which it is set, and how the truth enters into it, and what it has to do with the truth, but now we are dealing with things that are the result of revelation.

H.F.N. What is the distinctive feature of the mystery as presented in this chapter? One would desire if one could get some further help in regard to it, as it seems to relate to the spiritual substance of this epistle.

J.T. Well, the mystery in this chapter is spoken of in verse 2, "that by revelation the mystery has been made known to me", Ephesians 3:3, and then this runs on down to verse 8, "To me, less than the least of all saints, has this grace been given, to announce among the nations the glad tidings of the unsearchable riches of the Christ, and to enlighten all with the knowledge of what is the administration of the mystery hidden throughout the ages in God, who has created all things, in order that now to the principalities and authorities in the heavenlies might be made known through the assembly the all-various wisdom of God, according to the purpose of the ages, which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord". Ephesians 3:8 - 11. Now that is the mystery that is in mind in this chapter, but in chapter 5:32, it is said, "This mystery is great, but I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly". Ephesians 5:32. As I understand chapter 5 he alludes specifically to the marital side as entering into the truth of the assembly, the allusion being to Genesis 2, and carried down in the Lord showing to the disciples His hands and His side. The allusion there is to the formation of Eve, typifying the assembly as out of Christ, as of Christ, and therefore the thought of union enters into it. We have to bear in mind what in chapter 3 is indicated in the word mystery; "the revelation of the mystery", Romans 61:25, are the words Paul uses, and then his remark in Chapter 5, "This mystery is great, but I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly". Ephesians 5:32. So that

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what is before us now is the thought of the mystery, first in the general sense, in the setting out of the truth, and then in its special sense as the bride of Christ, taken out of Him.

F.J.F. Was the revelation made known to him on his way to Damascus, in the voice from heaven? The Lord said, "Why persecutest thou me?" and "I am Jesus whom thou persecutest". Acts 9:4,5.

J.T. Yes, the Lord referred to His body here.

A.H.G. Is the mystery in chapter 3 more universal in its bearing than that spoken of in chapter 5? I was thinking of the all-various wisdom of God in chapter 3?

J.T. I think it is more general, that is to say, as composed of Jew and gentile. Whereas chapter 5 alludes to Genesis 2 and, as was remarked, to what the Lord said as He rose from the dead, when He showed the disciples His hands and His side; the allusion would be to His love for the assembly as having come out of Him, as Eve was taken out of Adam.

Ques. Would the mystery be in connection with the assembly's relation to God in chapter 3, and in relation to Christ in chapter 5? The all-various wisdom of God is in chapter 3.

J.T. Well, I think that is right, in a general way, because in chapter 3 the word is, "that they who are of the nations should be joint heirs, and a joint body, and joint partakers of His promise in Christ Jesus by the glad tidings", Ephesians 3:6, whereas in chapter 5, the mystery alludes to Christ viewed as coming out of death, and the assembly as coming out of Christ.

Ques. When you make a distinction between the truth of the mystery in a general sense, and the marital side, have you in mind that the marital side involves what is between Christ and the assembly exclusively; whereas when you speak of union in a general sense as fitting into the truth, it is the divine pleasure secured in the man and the woman together?

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J.T. Yes, and what part God has in that.

Rem. The divine pleasure I meant, God's part, God's pleasure in it. I do not think we have made sufficient distinction in our minds between the two sides.

J.T. Well, that has been before me, too. I am not sure that there is just time for it this morning, because it requires more time, and maybe more power to open it up; the subject is extremely important, especially as it has to do with the service of God in its present provisional setting. I am not sure that we are just equal to it now, but what we have had has been enough to go on with at the moment; namely, that chapter 3 is the general thought, the more general thought of the assembly as bearing on the general testimony of God.

S.McC. Would that be why the thought of families is introduced in this chapter, in verse 15, "of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named"? Ephesians 3:15. Do the families fit in more with the general side of the testimony of God?

J.T. That is right, I would say. And so the prayer governing that, the prayer of this chapter as compared with the prayer of chapter 1: in this chapter it refers to the Father and the many families.

S.McC. It is generally thought, and spoken of sometimes that the families go through into eternity, but does this chapter contemplate them going beyond the millennium?

J.T. Let us look at the passage. Paul says, in verse 13, "Wherefore I beseech you not to faint through my tribulations for you, which is your glory. For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named, in order that he may give you according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man; that the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts, being rooted and founded in love, in order that ye may be fully able to apprehend

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with all the saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height; and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge; that ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God". Ephesians 3:13 - 19. I think the bearing of the reference to the families would be on the Father; it is a question of source, of God being the source of all families. The apostle then runs on to the assembly, having only the assembly in mind, especially in the doxology. But he says, "that the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts, being rooted and founded in love, in order that ye may be fully able to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height; and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge; that ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God". Ephesians 3:17 - 19. The apostle in the doxology has the assembly, I would say, in mind altogether; that is, it is the assembly in Christ Jesus. The other families are not dealt with specifically in this chapter save that the Father is the Father of all of them.

P.L. Would that not find support in the Lord's own utterance, "In my Father's house there are many abodes", John 14:2, each family taking its place in its own appointed abode in the way it has apprehended Christ, the Father's house being an eternal thought? But the Lord at once passes on to the you, "I go to prepare you a place", John 14:2, is Paul doing likewise here?

J.T. Quite so. In that sense, the Father's house in John 14, corresponds with what we are dealing with here, in both cases the idea of the many is left open; we have to find instruction as to it elsewhere. John 14 says, "I go to prepare you a place; and if I go", "I am coming again, and shall receive you to myself, that where I am ye also may be". John 14:2,3. It does not extend beyond the saints at that time, and so here, the instruction does not extend beyond the assembly; the doxology is the real terminus of the chapter in that sense. "But to him that is able to do far exceedingly above all which we ask or

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think, according to the power which works in us, to him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages". Ephesians 3:20,21. The apostle is confining what he is dealing with to his own charge, as it were, what had been committed to him.

F.J.F. Would it be right to say, the light of the Father having come out, that in some way that knowledge shines throughout all the families; God is known as Father?

J.T. Well, I think that is right, and chapter 1, of course, in our epistle, would mean that Christ is over them all, He is set over all things to the assembly. He is Head over all things to the assembly. The assembly is included in the headship; what the Lord is doing as Head over all things, the assembly has part in. So that we do well to keep to the subject of the assembly in this epistle.

Ques. Would the reference to the other families, both in John 14 and here, be to provide a sort of background to bring out the distinctive place of the assembly, that there is nothing else to compare with it?

J.T. Well, and all else will be affected by it, it is the capital of the universe really, and all light I would say goes out through it. At the same time other families have their own distinction, and it enriches the idea of the Father to say that He has them.

P.H.H. Is the distinction of the assembly borne out by what is said in verse 19, "that ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God". Ephesians 3:19. Would you say a little about the adequacy of the assembly in that relation?

J.T. The assembly is in mind, "that ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God". Ephesians 3:19. It does not exclude the other families, because they in their turn will come into the fulness too, the fulness of God, but the assembly predominates in everything, I would say, on moral grounds, it predominates in everything.

Ques. Why is it the assembly in Christ Jesus?

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J.T. Well, I think the preposition in as we have often remarked, implies power, that the position is in power, and it bears on the service of God just as we have been saying. This chapter bears on the service of God, as does chapter 5, only here in chapter 3 it is more in relation to the general position of the assembly. It is the place it will occupy in the universe, I would think, but in the service of God "in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages". Ephesians 3:21. That is a remarkable expression, which I suppose means eternity, the special place that the assembly has in the service of God in eternal ages.

A.J.G. Is it necessary that the assembly should have some intelligence as to the other families, and the vastness of the system that God has before Him, in order that she might be enriched in the service of God?

J.T. Quite so, everything is there for the moment, I would say, and it is a provisional moment too, that is another thing to bear in mind, that the service of God is in a provisional situation now; but this closing passage regards it in its universal setting, "the assembly in Christ Jesus, unto all generations of the age of ages". Ephesians 3:21.

A.H.G. Is the expression "in Christ Jesus" distinctive to the assembly?

J.T. I would say so, it is an expression often used as to position, and the position of the assembly is designated in that way, but it implies power.

J.C.W. The Spirit of God in Ephesians 5:30, says "we are of his flesh and of his bones", and in the end of Luke, "a spirit has not flesh and bones", Luke 24:39, but in Genesis 2:23 Adam says, "This time it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh".

J.T. Well, what Adam says is in keeping with what we have here. The Lord said, "a spirit has not flesh and bones as ye see me having". Luke 24:39. He had flesh and bones, and the assembly is in keeping with that, because the idea of bone is to bring out the framework, what the

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assembly needs is a framework, the frame corresponding with Christ. It is no question of blood, but of bone, because the bone gives the framework of the body, and then the filling up is the flesh.

S.C. What is the moral thought entering into the idea of the rib?

J.T. Well, the allusion is to the inwards, the inwards involving the assembly taken out of Christ, or Eve taken out of Adam. It is not an external idea, it is an inward thought, as indeed the breathing into Adam by Jehovah was an inward thought. And so too the breathing as the Spirit came down was inward; and so the idea of what is inward is stressed in this chapter 3, the inner man. It is all, I believe, bearing on the idea of what is inward, even in divine Persons, to speak reverently, for the idea of what is inward is there, and how it is transferred to us in the inner man.

Ques. Referring to the Lord's statement "a spirit has not flesh and bones as ye see me having", Luke 24:39, do you regard that as meaning that the Lord had such a body?

J.T. Yes, the Lord had such a body as that, but we are to be transformed into conformity to His body of glory, not simply what He was here after He rose, but His body of glory, we are to have bodies like that.

Ques. Referring to the Lord's body, do you not think that there is an advance in the body of glory mentioned in Philippians, on what the Lord had in the forty days of His resurrection?

J.T. I think there is. You would not like to say much, but it is remarkable that it says: "his body of glory", Philippians 3:21, The full thought is set out in that, and we are to be conformed to that.

Rem. So that the forty days was an educative period for the disciples. Our seeing the Lord "as he is", 1 John 3:2, would correspond to Paul's words, "his body of glory", in Philippians 3:21.

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J.T. Quite so, "we shall see him as he is", 1 John 3:2, as He is; that is, as He is in heaven now.

D.J.M. Is the Father's Spirit the power for us to move in the service of God now?

J.T. Quite so, the Spirit of the Father.

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PAUL'S MINISTRY AND THE SERVICE OF GOD (4)

Genesis 24:61 - 67

J.T. Having read the passage in Ephesians 5, beginning at verse 22, to the end, it occurs to me that we should read from Genesis 24, a section which will perhaps serve to clarify and enlarge what we have had. The passage in Genesis 2 alluded to this morning, as well as chapter 24, enter into the teaching of the verses read this morning in Ephesians 5. Genesis 2 refers to the Lord's death figuratively, and the Lord's resurrection as called attention to by Himself in showing to the disciples His hands and His side. Genesis 24 records the proposal of Abraham that the chief servant of his house should seek a wife for his son Isaac, and that she must be of his kindred, and that Isaac must not be brought to where she was, but that she must be brought to him. It should be remarked that Genesis 22 calls attention to the death of Christ in a sacrificial way, and that while He was raised figuratively, yet He, as typified in Isaac, did not return from the mount. It is not said that Isaac returned with his father after the occurrence on the mount when he is offered up, figuratively. Abraham came down and went and dwelt at Beer-Sheba, but Isaac is not said to have come down with him; as if to remind us that he prefigures Christ in heaven, and that the assembly is brought to Him there. Rebecca is seen in relation to her family in the end of the chapter. It is said, that "Bethuel begot Rebecca". Genesis 22:23. Her relatives are spoken of, but she is seen alone in the parenthesis of verse 23. She is there for the servant to find her and take her to Isaac, which he does. The verses read this morning in Ephesians 5, call attention to the fact that "Christ also loved the assembly,

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and has delivered himself up for it, in order that he might sanctify it, purifying it by the washing of water by the word, that he might present the assembly to himself glorious, having no spot, or wrinkle, or any of such things; but that it might be holy and blameless", "For no one has ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, even as also Christ the assembly: for we are members of his body; we are of his flesh, and of his bones. Because of this a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall be united to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh. This mystery is great, but I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly". Ephesians 5:25 - 27,29 - 32. Now the verses in Genesis 24 speak of Isaac taking Rebecca into his mother's tent. There is nothing said about Abraham in that section of the chapter. Isaac is said to be the servant's master; Abraham is not mentioned, nor is it said that anyone else had part in Sarah's tent, save Rebecca with Isaac. It is thought that these remarks will help us, and perhaps clarify the whole position, especially in view of the part that the marital side, that is, of Christ and the assembly, has in the service of God. It is thought the brethren will be interested to follow up this narrative along with Ephesians 5, linking it with the actual service of God in the present provisional time. Ephesians 3, which we spoke of this morning, refers to the service of God too, but it follows it into eternity; in fact the service is specially mentioned in saying, "to him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages". Ephesians 3:21. That goes into eternity, whereas now we are dealing with the provisional position of the assembly in the service of God.

Ques. Have you any thought as to what form the service will take in eternity, and wherein it will differ from the provisional side?

J.T. Well, of course, there will be no Lord's supper. The Lord's supper belongs to the present provisional side, and is inseparably linked with the service, the

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divine service, according to 1 Corinthians. In eternity the assembly will be glorious, literally so, not in humiliation in any sense; she will be conformed to Christ's image, and to His body of glory; so that whatever service there may be, and will be, of course, has all this in mind; that is, our risen, glorious and heavenly position. We cannot speak much of it, but we can speak considerably of the service on earth. Ezekiel enlarges on it, the service of God on earth, but as to what will proceed eternally, we cannot say much as to the details, but certainly the passage already dwelt upon this morning says something as to it. It is in the form of a doxology. "But to him that is able to do far exceedingly above all which we ask or think, according to the power which works in us, to him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages. Amen". Ephesians 3:20.

S.McC. Do you regard the marital side and the Lord's enjoyment of His links with His own in that light, as having a place in relation to the dominical side of assembly service; that is, the Lord's part in the service?

J.T. Well, the Lord's part in the service, which includes the Lord's supper, must include the assembly; the marital relations between Christ and His own. It is difficult to place it in that side that we speak of as the Father's side, although it can well be brought in by way of allusion or reference, but the Father's side has in mind sonship; that is, what is for Himself. Although, as we said, Christ and the assembly must form part with the Father, as the type would show in Genesis, beginning with Abraham, but it would be difficult to speak much about the assembly as such, and Christ with it, when we are dealing directly with God, the Father.

S.McC. I asked that question because there has been an inquiry as to whether what has been said as to the assembly and its place in the service of God, in a feminine way, eliminated the marital side from the beginning of assembly service.

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Ques. Would you think that the Supper leads directly to the marital side?

J.T. Well, I would say, rather that the Lord's brethren come before the assembly as such; the Lord's brethren as seen in John 20, not what we see in Matthew 12, and corresponding passages in the other synoptic gospels. Matthew 12 is more general, as connecting our position with the will of God in a practical way, but John 20 definitely and formally connects the brethren, the saints, with the Lord as His brethren, as He says to Mary, "Go, to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father". John 20:17. He is speaking of His brethren in an ascending relation; that is to say, in a heavenly relation. Matthew does not deal with them in that sense.

J.R. Is association with Christ a greater thought than the marital relation?

J.T. I would not say so, because we are speaking of a divine Person, and the assembly as related to Him; she is not herself divine, yet she is related to Christ, He being a divine Person. It would be difficult therefore to say that His brethren, or the sons of God even, are greater than those who form the assembly. The fact is that the three relations, the brethren of Christ, the assembly, and the sons of God, have all to be taken into account, and it is difficult, at least from my point of view, to say that any phase of the three is greater than the others.

H.W. Would you say a word as to the order in which these three great thoughts are brought before us in Hebrews 2; the sons of God, and the brethren "all of one", Hebrews 2:11, and then the assembly?

J.T. Well, God Himself is brought in first; "it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make perfect the leader of their salvation through sufferings". Hebrews 2:10. That is by itself. Then we have the brethren of Christ, and then the assembly, but the assembly as the vessel through which the Lord praises the Father. He says,

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"in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises". Hebrews 2:12. Verse 10 is a separate matter; verses 11 and 12 are by themselves; they read, "For both he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one; for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying, I will declare thy name to my brethren, in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises". Hebrews 2:11,12. So that, if we consider this side of the praises of the Lord to the Father, then we are obliged to connect the brethren with what precedes it, because the Lord says, "I will declare thy name to my brethren". Hebrews 2:12. That would come in first, and then the assembly following, both connected with the praises, and sonship following upon that.

W.C. Luke says, in Acts 20:7, "we being assembled to break bread". Would you regard that in the light of brethren?

J.T. I would say that is more what we call each other as brethren, in a responsible sense; it is our own part in the matter; the Lord has not yet come in in that position, "We being assembled", the writer says.

W.C. So that there is a view of the saints antecedent to what you are speaking of as brethren in the service according to John 20.

J.T. Well, we should need to allow for the Lord to come in, in order to bring in the passages read from Hebrews 2. We are now dealing with the truth governing the service of God, which is dependent on the Lord coming in Himself, as the Minister of the sanctuary. We come in ourselves before that, to break bread; we assemble, and it would be our own act, following the example He has set us, and with a view to the memorial. The Lord comes in as a result of the memorial taking effect.

A.J.G. Are you connecting the thought of brethren in John 20, with our being kindred to Christ even as is shown in Genesis 22, as to Rebecca, before she is actually brought into union?

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J.T. Well, just so. The passages in Hebrews all enter into that position.

Ques. Referring to His brethren, kindred of Christ; are we that constitutionally; and regarded so always, not merely so viewed in a position we take up at a given time?

J.T. But John 20 contemplates a position taken up; the saints are viewed as together, the assembly, in the upper room.

S.C. Does the thought of brethren in the first three gospels give the moral side?

J.T. Well, I would say that, and that that enters into Acts 20:7, where it says, "we being assembled". The view of brethren in the synoptic gospels would be in mind, the we would be the brethren, whereas John 20 contemplates another matter; that is to say, we are brethren, in a spiritual sense, of the ascending Man; of the Lord as ascending to His Father.

P.L. The first bearing on love's obligations here, and the second on love's elevation there?

J.T. Very good. Love's elevation.

H.F.N. Does Hebrews 2 give us the order of this service?

J.T. No, I would not say that, only the setting of verse 11 might well be regarded as covering the position when Christ is apprehended as having come in. We are assuming that the Lord comes in according to John 14. He comes in, but not at the beginning of the meeting; we come together, left, as it were, to ourselves, it is our matter, and He comes in. It is not that things could be put together in a formal way like that, but spiritually we apprehend that it is so. He said, "I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you". John 14:18. But we apprehend that He would come as we are thus together.

H.F.N. What I wanted to get clear about is whether Hebrews 2 looks at the saints from the standpoint of purpose as the sons, and thus states their dignity and

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privilege, yet does it additionally give us the order of the assembly service?

J.T. The order of the service, I think, must be worked out from the Lord's supper, because it is the gathering point, and the Lord had directed that we should do it, not that He should be there when we are doing it, but that we should do it. "This do", Luke 22:19, He says. It is what we do. The order begins there, and then what He will do consequent on that would be a question of love.

H.W. Do you look upon Hebrews 2:11, as connected intimately with what has gone before in verse 10, thus linking the thought of the brethren, all of one, with the Sons in verse 10?

J.T. Well, sonship comes in in verse 10, and according to the structure of the chapter, Hebrews 2, it is a finished matter at the paragraph. It is a question of what is suitable to God. "For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make perfect the leader of their salvation through sufferings". Hebrews 2:10. That is a separate matter, involving the death of Christ. But verse 11, whilst it may be linked up grammatically, we might say, with verse 10, yet it is a subject by itself, "For both he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one; for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren". Hebrews 2:11. There is nothing said about sufferings here; it is sanctification, and it is the Lord's own action, whereas verse 10 is God's action. The matter has to be considered by itself, and as to order comes in really after the verses 11 and 12. Assembly order properly is in Corinthians, and we begin with the Lord's supper. Hebrews 2 is truth, doctrine, that is needed in the service of God, but it is not the order of the service of God, which properly begins with the Lord's supper.

Ques. When the Lord comes in at the Supper, would you say He comes to His brethren or to the assembly as such?

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J.T. Well, I would say to His brethren, but if it be the assembly it would be the assembly in its public character and aspect, whereas the application of Hebrews 2 in its various parts would involve the private or secret relations of Christ with His people, but if we do not follow the order of Corinthians as to the service we shall get into disorder, because that epistle is intended to be the order of the house of God in its service. There is the public side of the service of God, and that begins with the Lord's supper, and I doubt if we will ever reach the truth that we are dealing with now, unless we begin with that, because it relates to the public worship of God; that is not given up, it entered into the Old Testament in the sacrifices in the temple, and in the tabernacle, but it is now in the christian assembly, the public assembly, the assembly of God in Corinth; that is, where the thing begins, and it is public.

P.H.H. When ye come together in assembly, would that be as brethren, but on the side of our being brothers and sisters together?

J.T. Just so, that is exactly what it is, as I understand it.

P.H.H. Not "my brethren" in the John 20 sense?

J.T. No; it is the public side of the worship of God, carried down from the Old Testament, only it is in the christian assembly. The christian assembly is designated in the Corinthian epistles as the assembly of God which is in Corinth. The Lord's supper is celebrated there, and all that enters into it spiritually follows on that, works out of that.

P.L. "He himself stood in their midst", Luke 24:36. Is that the public and local setting?

J.T. That is right. Luke contemplates the public assembly. It is the same incident that John alludes to, but Luke contemplates the public side.

H.W. Would that connect with Philippians 3:3, "we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God". Is that the public thought?

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J.T. Well, the Spirit is supposed to be there when we are celebrating the Lord's supper, so that I would go with that.

G.W.B. Where does marital response to Christ personally come in?

J.T. Where His love comes in. The Lord loved the assembly, and gave Himself for it. Corinthians is intended to be the order of God in His service, and Paul begins with it in chapter 11, verse 18. In the first part of chapter 11, he deals with headship, headship publicly; the place the headship of Christ has publicly, involving the service of God, and the order of it; the dress and demeanour of those who have part in it men, and women, and then in verse 18 we have the phrase, "when ye come together in assembly"; 1 Corinthians 11:18; it is the character of the coming together, it is the public position, and hence the condemnation by the apostle of the conduct that was there, but the assembly is there, nevertheless; in spite of the bad conduct, it is still the assembly of God.

S.McC. In Genesis 26:8, we read, "And it came to pass when he", (Isaac), "had been there some time, that Abimelech the king of the Philistines looked out of the window, and saw, and behold, Isaac was dallying with Rebecca his wife". Would there be any suggestion there of what is marital, in relation to the public side?

J.T. Quite so, I would say that indicates the idea, for it is Isaac and Rebecca, and what is seen in public.

W.C. Do we, in the memorial, remember the Lord in His devoted love to the assembly?

J.T. It is remembering Him as absent, I would say.

A.McG. Do you connect the thought of remembering the Lord as absent with the cup as well as with the loaf?

J.T. Quite so. It is formally stated, only once, however, in relation to the cup; it is twice stated in relation

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to the bread, or more than twice, if we include the occasion at Emmaus, but it is only once connected with the cup.

A.McG. If I understand what has been said as to the Lord being "made known to them in the breaking of bread", Luke 24:35, how do we connect remembrance with the cup if the Lord is present?

J.T. The Lord's supper is one thing, but with two elements; the usual designation of it is "the breaking of bread", as in Acts 20, "We being assembled to break bread", and that included the cup, as well as the loaf. So that we are dealing with one thing in the celebration, and I would say that the Lord comes in in the breaking of bread, Luke 24:30,31. The cup augments what is presented in the bread, but the bread is the main thought. If we keep to the actual wording in 1 Corinthians 11, I think we will arrive at the truth accurately; that is connected also with the passage in Luke 24. They were gathered together and they were saying certain things, and they referred to the Lord's resurrection. And then the two from Emmaus added that He "was made known to them in the breaking of bread". Luke 24:35. There is no mention of the cup in the incident at Emmaus, it was just the breaking of bread, but still it served its purpose, and the Lord was apprehended through it. And then as they were saying these things, "he himself stood in their midst". Luke 24:36. It is not said, that He came and stood, but He was seen standing in their midst. Certain things followed which show that they were perturbed, and they were not ready really for the service of God, and the Lord has to put them right as to it. Whereas in John, it is said, in regard of the same incident undoubtedly, that "where the disciples were", John 20:19, the doors were shut for fear of the Jews, showing that there was already exclusion of what would be damaging, and "Jesus came and stood in the midst, and says to them, Peace be to you". John 20:19. There is no discrepancy with

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them at all, what happened is in order, and "they rejoiced therefore, having seen the Lord". John 20:20. Luke presents the public position, and it was irregular, as it was at Corinth; John presents the same occasion, only it is more the second part of the service, because the Lord comes in. What happened before was without Him, even as Acts 20 shows what happened before the Lord came in; it was the action of the brethren in Troas in assembling to break bread; the breaking of bread evidently being before the Lord would come in in that case. Comparing all these scriptures together, we would assume, and rightly so, I think, that the Lord came in after the breaking of bread began.

P.H.H. So you would be quite free normally speaking in giving thanks for the cup, to think of the Lord as being there, as having come.

J.T. Yes, I would, and always assume that He is there. What happens subsequently is simply to augment what has already happened.

Ques. Then if it is discerned that the Lord has come amongst us, as we have to do with the bread, do we carry a dual thought in our minds for the time being until the Supper is completed?

J.T. Well, I would say that.

A.J.G. Do you mean that the remembrance of Christ in connection with the cup in that sense has to do with the public position, while spiritually He may be apprehended as having come in?

J.T. Yes, just so, that is just what I would say, but also would stress the thought that it is one matter, the Lord's supper is one matter, and so designated; that is, the bread and the cup are included in it, and it is one Supper.

Rem. He made Himself known in the breaking of bread, and on their side they recognised Him, Luke 24.

J.T. Well, it might be said, that it was not the Lord's supper really, but the breaking of bread was there. It

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brought out the familiar way of the Lord as the house-father. He was accustomed to do it, and therefore it became the occasion of their discerning Him; that is all we can say, but it is carried through by the two that saw it, and introduced as the eleven and others were gathered together. The term "the breaking of bread" was used; He was made known to them in that, and this allusion recalls the whole matter, the Lord's supper.

A.E.L. Does 1 Corinthians 11:26 stress the oneness of the emblems, in saying "as often as ye shall eat this bread, and drink the cup"? 1 Corinthians 11:26.

J.T. Quite so, I would say that.

A.H.G. You said that the cup was to augment what had gone before in the loaf, but how would you regard the expression "The cup of blessing which we bless", in 1 Corinthians 10:16?

J.T. That is not the order of the truth as to the Lord's supper; this order is not in 1 Corinthians 10, but in chapter 11. The order requires that the bread should come first. What is presented in chapter 10 is to bear on our conduct; the cup of the Lord and the table of the Lord are terms not properly applicable to the Lord's supper in the order of it; these expressions come in in connection with the matter of public conduct. In chapter 11 we read, "In like manner also the cup, after having supped". 1 Corinthians 11:25. That means after the passover supper was over; so that the Lord's supper is not connected with anything Jewish, it is severed from the Jewish position. The apostle proceeds, quoting the Lord's words, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye shall drink it, in remembrance of me". 1 Corinthians 11:25. The point in that section is the memorial, not that the cup represented the covenant, but that the idea of memorial was connected with it. It is the only place where the memorial is formally connected with the cup, but it is there, and one testimony is enough as to it. So that it is as already said, to augment the first part of the memorial; the first

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is the main thought, because the designation attached to it also covers the whole matter; the breaking of bread speaking of the whole.

Ques. It says in connection with the cup in verse 25, "as often as ye shall drink". 1 Corinthians 11:25. Is that to emphasise that the remembrance is continued with the cup? It does not say "as often" in connection with the loaf.

J.T. Just so. It is important to bring up that, that it is not mentioned in connection with the bread; it is to ensure that the import of the second part is not missed, but carried into the Supper. At Emmaus there was no drinking; it was just the breaking of the bread, but, of course, it was not formally the Lord's supper; yet when at Jerusalem they were speaking about it, they called it "the breaking of bread"; Luke 24:35; that is what it meant in their minds, and therefore the word "as often as ye drink it" 1 Corinthians 11:25, is just to stress that the memorial in the cup is not to be overlooked.

Ques. Whilst you have said that the Supper forms part of the public service of God in the assembly, does it privately lead to a spot where Christ personally gets a portion that is exclusive to Himself?

J.T. I would say that was most precious and that the Lord's relation with His bride, the assembly as the bride of Christ, comes into that.

Ques. And does the remembrance of the Lord as the Lord comes in, lead on to that, but you think that we take the ground of being His brethren before we touch the marital side?

J.T. Yes, I would say that; it is the time for it; it is the time of love and the Lord's brethren come into His mind; "go to my brethren", John 20:17, He said. He never forgets them. It is light that is to govern the service of God. Mary received the light from the Lord, she went to the disciples and told them that "she had seen the Lord, and that he had said these things to her". John 20:18 Following that the Lord "came and stood in the midst". John 20:19. They were His

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brethren, and the message involved that, and that His Father was their Father, and His God their God; all that enters into the service of God.

Rem. The brethren therefore are in view prior to the marital side.

J.T. The thought of brethren, I think, comes in before the marital side in a full sense; it is a prime matter with God, extending back to His counsels, that Christ should have the assembly. It is His matter, even as m Genesis 24 it was Isaac's matter; there is nothing said about others in relation to Sarah's tent. Isaac and Rebecca, and Sarah's tent means something, and there is no suggestion that Abraham was there, in fact he is not even mentioned in that connection.

Rem. The servant stands aside in Genesis 24. There are sixty verses about the outgoing journey, but when the bride has come into view, the intimacy requires the exclusion of everything else; is that right?

J.T. It is said in verse 61, "Rebecca arose, and her maids, and they rode upon the camels, and followed the man". Genesis 24:61. Her maids must not be omitted because they bring in the feminine side and stress it. "And the servant took Rebecca, and went away. And Isaac had just returned from Beer-lahai-roi; for he was dwelling in the south country. And Isaac had gone out to meditate in the fields toward the beginning of evening. And he lifted up his eyes and saw, and behold, camels were coming". Genesis 24:61 - 63. We must not forget that; he noticed the camels. They carried Rebecca, even as to the assembly there is the power that carries her. We learn, therefore, that the Spirit of God is to be recognised in the service from the very outset. As we assemble we need him; the Spirit is needed there.

P.H.H. Would you say that from the outset, the marital side is in view in our affections, but it cannot come fully into expression until the Lord has come in and His love has full liberty?

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J.T. I would say that.

P.H.H. Does Rebecca, although personally a woman, set out this matter of the brethren?

J.T. Well, the brethren, as the brethren, would set out the matter of the assembly; that is the way I would put it. They are to be viewed in another light. The assembly is the prime thought with God too, but it is the prime thought with Christ, His assembly, but His assembly as His bride, according to what she is as seen in the types of Genesis 2, and Genesis 24.

F.J.F. Would the present entrance into the joy of these marital relations with the Lord Jesus at the Supper fit us for our part as His fulness in the day to come, as referred in Ephesians 1:23?

J.T. Well, just so, "the fulness of him who fills all in all"; Ephesians 1:23; it is the assembly. We are seeking to get at the relations of Christ now in this provisional time, when the Lord's supper is in view; we are seeking to find out what the Lord's feelings are, and what the effect of His Supper is on Himself, in that it brings in the assembly. Is there any joy in it for Him? The disciples were glad, but then we do not get as much said of the assembly, in this sense, as we do of the disciples and of the brethren. But we are trying to arrive at an understanding of what the Lord finds in the assembly as His spouse, as His bride, and where it fits. Allusion has been made to Genesis 26, and we are speaking now of what is in Genesis really; chapter 26 presents Isaac and Rebecca not only Isaac "dallying", but the facts show that at this particular time he was free, he is not burdened with affairs. The Lord is to be regarded thus as free for the assembly, as indeed Isaac is throughout the whole of chapter 24, and especially in the passage read from verse 61. Isaac is free; he has just come from the well, which alludes to the Spirit as already connected with Israel, only through Hagar; God having earlier approached Israel on those lines. Isaac is now occupied

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with the same well, but he is meditating in the fields, and so forth. "And he lifted up his eyes and saw, and behold, camels were coming". Then "Rebecca lifted up her eyes and saw Isaac", Genesis 24:63,64, and then we are told that she had inquired about him from the servant, and the servant told her "That is my master"; Genesis 24:65; not Isaac, nor his master's son, but "my master". That is to say, God is not presented in the type now, it is a question of Isaac and Rebecca, of Christ and the assembly. What comes to mind now is what the Lord's supper provides; that is, what follows it for the Lord Himself; what joy He has in seeing the saints in this collective feminine sense, what He has in them. That is the thing, I think, we all ought to have in our minds and seek to arrive at the truth of, so that we are of one mind about it.

Rem. So that to have the feminine side in the true sense, as you were saying last night, it is essential that we should have power in our souls to take up individually the ground of being associated with Christ as above.

J.T. Quite so, because we are on the upper line, we are going up you know, it is an ascending line we are on in the service of God after the Lord's supper has been celebrated.

Ques. In Genesis 24:67 it says that "she became his wife, and he loved her". Does that imply that the highest joy of the love of Christ is reached in connection with union?

J.T. Very good, and the fact that the wife is seen in Revelation 19, "his wife has made herself ready", Revelation 19:7, would help us in that. It brings to mind what she is to the Lord as the wife, that is to say in this provisional time: she is the bride, but she is also viewed as the wife. And I think the Lord would have that in mind as He joins us in the wilderness in assembly at His Supper. He is recalled to our hearts in it and He comes in, and He has the saints who are caring for His interests, because the Lord's

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supper contemplates that they have been caring for His interests, and He has His joy in them. And then there is the idea of adornment, what is granted to her; it is a question of the place she takes; she is subordinate yet, and the Lord is acting, it is His time, but He is caring for her, as one who cared for His interests. Then, of course, we ascend to the higher levels until we reach God, and the Father. It is a question of "from glory to glory", 2 Corinthians 3:18, until we reach God, until we reach the Father, as His sons. It is a question of what power we have in our souls and in our minds especially, because it is a question of the spiritual mind really more than of the heart in order to distinguish things. Can we distinguish when the Lord is so operating, discerning us as His, as those who have cared for His interests, and those whom He loves accordingly, and then whom He loves because of the adornment, because of her beauty personally as we see in Abigail, and all that sort of thing; these have all to be provided for, and the Holy Spirit enables us to move in them, and I think, the point with us is to be ready for our minds to be trained so as to go from one phase to another as the Lord would have us go, until we arrive at the full thought that is in His mind.

H.W. Is the full thought, union?

J.T. Well, union is the definite end in mind as regards the early part, when He is moving in relation to His bride, the assembly, but the full thought, of course, goes further than that; it includes that, but it includes the sons, the saints viewed in another light, and God's thought in them, which we get as we have already seen in Hebrews 2.

H.E. With regard to the matter of union, would you help us as to why the Lord speaking in Matthew 19, and quoting from Genesis 2, adds the words which we do not get there, nor in Ephesians, "so that they are no longer two, but one flesh"? Matthew 19:6. He seems to emphasise this matter.

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J.T. Just so, very good. That stresses the Lord's relations with the assembly, "one flesh", which goes on, of course, to the idea of union, union is the terminus from one angle, from one point of view, but it only goes so far, but then we have to think of God, and the Father, and His sons, all these things must come into our minds, the question is whether our minds are able to take them up as the Lord moves on.

H.W. The matter of union is necessary to be reached, before we can arrive at the final end of the service.

J.T. Just so.

Ques. Does the expression "all of one", Hebrews 2:11, imply that we are of Christ's order agreeing with the word "as the heavenly, such also the heavenly ones"? 1 Corinthians 15:48.

J.T. That is exactly what it means, I would say.

Ques. Referring to Hebrews 2:11 and 12, "he is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren; in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises". Hebrews 2:11,12. Does that come in as the Lord comes to us?

J.T. Yes; we must be together for that.

Eu.R. Would you say a word as to the expressions "all of one" Hebrews 2:11 and "the two shall be one flesh"? Matthew 19:5.

J.T. Well, the latter is a great mystery, the apostle says, and I cannot tell really, but it is a mystery especially as it applies to what we are saying now, Christ and the assembly, but it would mean that we are united together among ourselves, and then suitable for union with Christ as united together; we are not diverse, nor divided; we are one among ourselves, and so the Lord is pleased to take us on as His bride. We are all governed by one thought, we are wholly governed by affection, and that is what He unites to Himself.

P.L. So that unity bodywise leads up to union.

J.T. That is what I understand exactly. We must have the real thing in ourselves as we come together to break bread. We come together as united, the Lord is pleased

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with us in that light, and hence the joy He has in us as He takes us on as we call Him to mind. That is what we shall have to stop with, that unity bodywise lays the basis for union, and if we can follow that up we will reach something.

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PAUL'S MINISTRY AND THE SERVICE OF GOD (5)

Ephesians 4:1 - 16; 1 Corinthians 11:17 - 26; Hebrews 2:10 - 12; Hebrews 8:7 - 13

J.T. We have read a part of Ephesians 4 which relates to gift, and from 1 Corinthians 11 as regards the order of God's service, the public order of it, and the passages in Hebrews as regards certain elements of the truth, not co-ordinated in the sense of order, but nevertheless of first-rate importance in regard of the service. The first point of prime importance is the order of the divine service, in so far as it is given to us in any regular order. We have, as enlightened believers, no thought of creed or ritual, indeed the New Testament forbids any such thing. The platform of the service of God is that of "the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free"; Galatians 5:1; that is, in sonship; sonship working out in a practical sense as dealing with divine things, and therefore we are not spoken to as children in these matters, but as full grown. We are regarded as capable of understanding and knowing where any given truth may be found and where it is to be placed if necessary in any part of the service. The word in 1 Corinthians 10 helps in that respect, "I speak as to intelligent persons: do ye judge what I say", 1 Corinthians 10:15, and then there is the word as to blessing, the blessing of the cup. It refers to communion, to fellowship, not to the order of the divine service. The order is in chapter 11, and in so far as it may be called ritual, it is what is to govern the Lord's supper. The part of the chapter read alludes to the great irregularities at Corinth, but they were not irreparable, but could be rectified, and the apostle goes to great pains in order to show that the circumstances in which the Lord's supper is celebrated are

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not the circumstances of our ordinary affairs; not our houses. The reference to the upper room in the beginning of the Acts, would indicate that the idea was carried through from the time of the institution of the Supper by the Lord Himself; it can only be touched on in that sense, because there are other elements that would modify it now, only it is clear that intelligence carries things through. In 1 Corinthians 11:17, the word is, "in prescribing to you on this which I now enter on, I do not praise, namely, that ye come together, not for the better, but for the worse". This passage clearly indicates that the Lord's supper is the leading or initial idea in the service of God, and that the service of God follows upon it. Other sections, including the second epistle, would show that the truth also is to be worked out in relation to the Lord's supper, but the order of God's service is clearly indicated in these epistles written to Corinth, to "the assembly of God which is in Corinth". 1 Corinthians 1:2, 2 Corinthians 1:1. The assembly there was the vessel in which things would be carried out in regard of divine service, and reference is made to this in chapter 12; "so also is the Christ", 1 Corinthians 12:12, meaning the vessel in which service is to be carried through, even ministry. I refer to that because of the importance of these two epistles, in regard to the matter in hand. As to Hebrews, it is well known that the epistle goes beyond christianity, for certain references in it show that the millennial state of things is in mind also, and especially the reference to the new covenant in chapter 8; it is clear that the setting of that is the millennium. That should help us as to the use made of the new covenant in the first and second epistles to the Corinthians, but especially the first; it serves conveniently to help in the spirit of it; that is, the character of the ritual, as we were saying, what comes nearest to Judaism in that sense, and yet is not Judaism, because the Lord's supper is carefully separated from the temple in Acts 1.

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A.J.G. In saying that the Lord's supper was carefully separated from the temple in Acts 1, do you refer to the fact that they gathered in the upper room?

J.T. Yes, and then there was breaking of bread in the house after the Spirit came in the second chapter. The teaching and fellowship of the apostles, and the breaking of bread are all brought into it.

J.T.S. Have you anything in your mind as to the difference in the words in Luke 22 regarding the Supper, and those in 1 Corinthians?

J.T. Well, Paul's message from the Lord to the Corinthians, as regards the Lord's supper, is His message to the gentiles, and indeed to the whole assembly, and inasmuch as it is clearly the final word, it should be taken to govern us authoritatively. As already remarked, the Jewish system is in mind in the synoptic gospels, and they go beyond christianity. So that the final word on the Lord's supper is through Paul, and given formally to the Corinthians, even the wording of it.

A.H.G. Do you regard chapter 11:17 as a distinct break in the epistle? Prior to that Paul is instructing us regarding the matter of the fellowship, but then introducing the Lord's supper in view of the service of God? We have rather carried over the thought of the cup of blessing in chapter 10 into chapter 11. I take it you have a different thought as to the setting of the cup in that chapter?

J.T. Yes. The cup is set in its order in the service of God in chapter 11, whereas in chapter 10 it stands related to the fellowship. The word fellowship is used in chapter 10 because it is a question of our public bond, and all that enters into our relations together.

Ques. I think what you said as to the epistle to the Hebrews leading into the world to come is very helpful. Would you say the new covenant is that aspect of

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redemption which Israel will know as its proper and own place in the world to come?

J.T. That is clearly what is meant in the formal allusion to it in Hebrews 8. The actual terms of the new covenant are formally stated there, and that the old covenant had become old, and was about to be set aside, and that is really what is in mind in the epistle.

Ques. In the wording employed, in regard of the Lord's supper the covenant itself is not to be remembered, but the Lord personally, "this do, as often as ye shall drink it, in remembrance of me". 1 Corinthians 11:25. Does that fix the matter in our hearts?

J.T. I think so. The Spirit of God makes clear that the real thought is the memorial of Christ not the new covenant; the calling to mind of Christ in the cup also as in the bread.

P.H.H. The reference to the new covenant in 2 Corinthians 3, would make the Lord more and more glorious to us. Is that the thought? He goes on towards the end of that chapter, speaking not of the letter but of the spirit, and says, "now the Lord is the Spirit". 2 Corinthians 3:17.

J.T. Well, just so.

Ques. In that connection is it important that we are said to have come to "Jesus, mediator of a new covenant", Hebrews 12:24, not to the covenant, but the Person?

J.T. And it is in Jewish language, the grace of God entering into the apostle's feeling in writing. He is dealing tenderly with the Jewish people, although time had gone on and things had become worse amongst them, the opposition had increased, culminating in Stephen's martyrdom, so that what the Spirit of God says in Hebrews 8 as to the old disappearing was imminent. Therefore, what we may have to say as to Jewish terms ought to be looked at in this connection, and we should not regard them as essentially of the christian vocabulary. We must remember that they belong to the types. There is such a thing as the christian

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vocabulary, and when Paul deals with the higher levels of the truth you get that vocabulary from him. Whereas on the lower level, so to speak, that is the Corinthian level and Hebrews, we get Jewish expressions, Jewish thoughts; God mercifully, and Paul too, tenderly dealing with them. Paul had already said that he had wished himself accursed for Israel, not that he then wished it, but that he had at one time wished to be accursed from Christ, for his brethren's sake, showing his feelings, how deep they were.

Eu.R. Does "the new covenant in my blood" 1 Corinthians 11:25, include the thought of the disposition of God shining out in the death of His Son?

J.T. The term thus can be used conveniently, the Lord Himself uses it. But we must bear in mind, that the epistle to the Hebrews shows how imminent the renunciation of the whole system was. Chapter 13 says, that we are to go forth without the camp bearing His reproach, and that we have an altar, of which they who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat. We have to understand what that altar means, it is the christian altar.

A.J.G. Does the fact that the Lord says "in my blood", 1 Corinthians 11:25, imply that He is impressing us with His own personal love which is the distinctive portion of the assembly?

J.T. Quite so, and no doubt carrying with it what we have already remarked as to the tender divine feelings towards the Jews, the ancient people; because they are not really abandoned, they are to be saved, and all those terms, in their full import, are to be saved with them.

Ques. Referring to Hebrews 2, do not the Psalms and the prophetic scriptures indicate that the things referred to in verses 10 - 13, will be part of the inheritance of the Jew in the world to come, but are all taken up in the assembly provisionally now? "Behold, I and the children which God has given me". Hebrews 2:13. Is that not what will

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be seen in Christ identifying Himself with the remnant for instance, in the day of His manifestation?

J.T. Well, they are most precious thoughts, because they refer to the Lord Jesus. The Psalm from which verse 12 is quoted relates to the Lord on the cross. It is what He says as He is heard from the horns of the unicorns. The heading of that Psalm is "upon Aijeleth-Shahar"; that is, the hind of the morning; the feminine thought is that, and therefore we may understand how affected the Lord would have been in speaking to His Father thus, and saying, "I will declare thy name to my brethren". Hebrews 2:12.

Rem. I thought that John 20 for instance would show that the Lord very definitely did that in resurrection.

J.T. Yes, but He does it here in Hebrews 2 in a Jewish setting really. The Psalms enter into Hebrews peculiarly, for the sayings of the brethren in the Old Testament are quoted so largely in the first chapter and throughout the book. So here, "he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one; for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren; saying, I will declare thy name to my brethren; in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises". Hebrews 2:11,12. Now all these terms are in a Jewish setting, for even the word assembly is taken from the Psalms, only in such a setting that we can well employ it in the christian service, in the service of God in the assembly. It is from a most touching setting, but still, the Lord is there seen in Jewish circumstances.

S.McC. You have referred to the thought of the sons and to the thought of the brethren, and to the thought of the assembly; what would be the bearing of "the children which God has given me", Hebrews 2:13, in relation to us in this section?

J.T. It is an isolated statement as the others are, but they are set together in a spiritual way as indited by the Spirit, as also "again, I will trust in him". Hebrews 2:13. These

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isolated statements are introduced by the Spirit of God as comments on the reality of the Lord's humanity, that He truly came into flesh and blood.

Ques. Whilst the Supper forms part, as you said, of the public service of God which takes place in the assembly of God in a place, yet privately, does it not lead to the saints affording Christ personally a specific portion which is exclusive to Himself during the time of His absence? Is there not a difference then between the public setting of it, as forming part of the service of God, and the private side which the remembrance involves, which has in view something for the Lord's own heart?

J.T. Quite so, it is a memorial of Himself, He attaches value to that in this time of His rejection; His place in our hearts involving our loyalty to Him.

Ques. Would you say that in John 20, the way that the Lord Jesus takes things up with Mary Magdalene seems to establish all this ground before giving her the great message, "I ascend to my Father and your Father", John 20:17, as though the ground is fully cleared for Him to open up the Ephesian position?

J.T. You mean that the Lord had the Ephesian position in mind in all that He said to Mary; that is to say, all that the Spirit of God records of the matter. One thing perhaps, that has been overlooked somewhat by some of us is that the matter does not terminate with the side of rejoicing through the disciples having seen the Lord, but the Lord goes on and speaks of a commission that He puts upon the disciples. He is sending them forth and therefore it is not simply the service of God in the assembly, but the service of God in the testimony of God here. They are to go on with this testimony, and if there be the need of remission of sins, they are to attend to that; they are fitted for it by what happens in the upper room; in view of the public service, they are to enter into the meaning of this

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commission. So that it is not only a question of the public service Godward, but also the public service manward.

S.McC. You have referred to priesthood in relation to Christ as well as to God in Revelation 20. Does that have a bearing on the service as you are now referring to it?

J.T. Very much. I am thankful you bring that up, because although it is a prophetic matter in a sense, yet it is there said that we are to be priests unto Christ. This would help in regard to the Lord's supper, being exclusively the Lord's supper, not the Father's supper, nor the Spirit's. The Spirit helps us in it, but it is the Lord's supper.

Eu.R. Would they who are sanctified involve the priestly thought?

J.T. Well, the word sanctified would, but the main thought there is, of course, that they "are all of one". Hebrews 2:11.

Ques. Would you say something about the character of thanksgiving for the cup?

J.T. I suppose it is "thanksgiving" as in 1 Corinthians 11 where it is said of the bread "having given thanks" and then "in like manner also the cup". 1 Corinthians 11:24,25. We are speaking well of it, but we are speaking to the Lord about it, and the import of the whole matter is, "this do in remembrance of me". 1 Corinthians 11:24. The cup, like the bread, is for the calling of Christ to mind.

Ques. Is it suggestive that the adjective "new" in the expression new covenant in Hebrews 12:24 is not the word usually employed, but denotes freshness or youthfulness, and thus would suggest the importance of that element in the service of God? Might it also be connected with the passage in Exodus which speaks of the youths?

J.T. Quite so, it has a Jewish bearing, as we have already said. It is one of the things to which it is said christians have come, that is Jewish christians. The point

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was what they had come to as compared with what their fathers came to at mount Sinai, and there can be no doubt that the change in the word new is to give the thing a present bearing, so that they would understand that they were really in this thing, that they had part in what was new and fresh, and why should they go back to the old? I think that one important matter is to see the bearing of the rejection of the Jewish system, and how the Spirit of God, or Paul, for he was doubtless the writer, is leading up to the rejection of the Jewish system entirely. He was ready to abandon it, but he would, as it were, salvage all possible, and in doing so, not to offend his Jewish brethren. Some of them were in danger of turning away altogether, and so he says, "if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him"; Hebrews 10:38; my soul he says, showing the feelings that entered into the apostle's own heart as to his Jewish brethren. I believe we ought to keep that in mind.

H.F.N. Is not the real secret of our deliverance from it, the entrance into what is our own proper and distinctive portion in christianity? Is not that the real power of liberation for the saints?

J.T. Just so, only it is good for us to see how the divine sympathies still lingered. They were very powerful at the beginning of Acts, and they still lingered in the writer of the Hebrew epistle, and I think we ought to be as tender as Paul in that sense, and as tender as the blessed God Himself; how patient He was! It will work out in our own case, for the nations also are about to be rejected as the apostle shows in Romans 11. For ourselves, of course, we will be translated, but the gentiles as such are on the eve of rejection, and we ought to learn to be sympathetic with our brethren round about us; some mere professors and not real, but some are real, and we ought to be patient with them. The patience of God is a great feature of the truth.

E.A.K. Would the feelings of Paul, when he spoke of

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having wished that he had been accursed from Christ be pleasurable to heaven, even as the spirit of Moses when asking to be blotted out for the sake of the people?

J.T. I think so. I think Jehovah would keenly appreciate the sympathies of Moses with Him in what was then transpiring. Three thousand Levites rallied to Moses when he said "He that is for Jehovah, let him come to me"? Exodus 32:26, and that is our present position. Hebrews 13 is our present position; "we have an altar"; Hebrews 13:10; that is christians. We are using the word altar, though it is a Jewish word; it is a pagan word, too, but we are using it in a christian sense; "we have an altar of which they have no right to eat who serve the tabernacle". Hebrews 13:10 Those who are in the Jewish system, and serving it, have no right to christianity at all. But at the same time we are not without sympathy with God and His feelings about His ancient people, because they are presently going to be reinstated, and we know that. It is an early matter with God, and why should we not be sympathetic with Him? In using Hebrew terms, if they convey the sense, let us remember that we are dealing with christianity. As the Spirit of God says, "the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch", Acts 11:26, and that stands.

L.P.M. Have you in mind that 1 Corinthians 11 discloses a certain order that is to characterise the saints now, and that order is to emerge in the service of God?

J.T. Well, that is the understanding I have. We begin with what is public; "as often as ye shall eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye announce the death of the Lord". 1 Corinthians 11:26. That is a public matter; but that is not all, for there is a secret side to it, and a sacred side too, peculiarly so. The Lord's own feelings are in it, and so it is great enough to be the basis for the whole service of God, and there is no other service. I believe it has come to us from the very beginning, for in Acts 2:42, we learn that the converts

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"persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers". Acts 2:42. The apostles have gone, but the teaching has not gone, the fellowship has not gone, the breaking of bread has not gone, prayers have not gone, and we are to go on with these.

W.C. Do I understand you rightly, that in referring to these sympathies, you have in mind that we may employ certain terms, but it would be in view of some who might be feeling their way out?

J.T. Quite so. For instance, our brethren in the Anglican Church, for one would have more respect for it than any others, because of its continuance from the time of the Reformation, and because of the loyalty of the martyrs. You cannot forget these things; heaven does not forget them, and so we ought to be very tender. We may all fail in this, but still, we are now dealing with facts and with principles, and we ought to be very tender as to matters, as to terms that we use, so that we might by all means gain some.

P.L. So that in the salvaging process to which you refer, would you say that the new covenant is made to serve in the spirit of it, in view of the formation, and securing of vessels for the sanctuary?

J.T. Yes. You might say it has its place in the things new and old. A householder is pictured by the Lord as like a scribe who brings out of his treasures things new and old. Let us take the new covenant and the blood of it; it is a matter that can be treated, to use a simple term, as an antique, a most valuable thing in view of its place in the Old Testament. The brethren will understand that I am not speaking disrespectfully of it, but an antique is valuable, because of its age, and so you might rightly bring in that as a thought into the highest level of Paul's letters, because it is so precious and so old, so well worn in age, hence its value. I just use that as an illustration of how old things can be brought out and regarded as precious along with new things.

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P.L. In the service of God in connection with the hymn on Olivet, as they went up, was there the in-gathering of the old combined with the introduction of the new?

J.T. Yes. We do not know what the hymn was; it was probably a psalm, but it is called a hymn. The verb is hymn in Hebrews 2; the Father is hymned to, showing how precious it is, as in that setting, but it is Old Testament; it is from Psalm 22 and it only illustrates what we are saying, that if a thing can be shown to be scriptural, well, then we are on safe ground in what we are saying.

Ques. Would not the wording that you have referred to in 1 Corinthians show that before there is a hymn to God, as is suggested in the hymn on the way to Olivet, the Lord's own portion is to be provided?

J.T. Just so, and the Lord joins in that in a collective sense, which is a very beautiful thought. They sang a hymn, not that He led in it; and the Lord, I am sure, enjoyed it more than any; He was there, and unquestionably He would sing it.

F.W. Is this matter of the vocabulary involved in Hebrews 6:1, "leaving the word of the beginning of the Christ", having in view the bringing in of christianity and its vocabulary?

J.T. Very good. He is eliminating certain things, washings, and baptisms and urging them to go on to what belongs to full growth, and that is what we are going on to, I hope.

F.W. Yes, he had spoken to them of the oracles of God, and of those that were unskilled in the word of righteousness, and he wanted them to go on.

J.T. Full growth would mean that we are Bereans, and are worthy of being in Paul's company. A Berean would be accurate and look into the thing verbally, and see that what is said is so. If something is quoted from another, well, is it properly quoted, and does it

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really mean what is intimated? Accuracy will enter into every matter.

F.W. The statement that the Sanctifier and the sanctified are all of one, would be understood from the type to mean Aaron the Sanctifier and his Sons the sanctified, and that is brought in in a spiritual way into christianity proper.

J.T. Well; Hebrews 2:11,12 is taken directly from Psalm 22, and it conveys the Lord's own words to His Father. Aaron and his sons hardly typify it.

W.C. Would the happenings in Numbers 31 in regard of Phinehas, and the movement against the Midianites and the spoil taken and passed through the fire and the water, illustrate what you have been saying, that the Berean would be sure of having everything accurate, salvaging things, but having them accurate?

J.T. I think that is very good. The whole section of Numbers, beginning with chapter 16, the rebellion of Korah, brings out that principle. It is shown in the broad plates made to cover the altar, for they were made of the brass censors used by Korah's company. The thing is salvaged, and turned into something for the service of God, and so too the utensils of Egypt are used; by the commandment of God the people were to ask for them, and so the metal in Jericho was to be used. All these things are important in what we are saying as to what can be employed in a right way in the service of God, even words.

P.L. Does that fit well with persons who have been salvaged themselves, the sons of Korah?

J.T. Very good. The third book of Psalms is adorned by these very persons; it is a question of the service of God in that book, and some of the most precious references to Christ are in it.

W.C. The Lord's proposal to Laodicea would suggest His service to the salvaged persons, would it not? "Behold, I stand at the door, and am knocking". Revelation 3:20. Would

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that be to deliver and extricate persons that are of value, those that He loves, from the Laodicean state?

J.T. Quite so; they are tested as to whether they will open. "If anyone", "open the door, I will come in unto him and sup with him". Revelation 3:20. The Lord would go that far, using the word sup which ought to be familiar to us in regard to the Lord's supper.

J.H.T. Is David salvaging in collecting the dedicated things of Saul the son of Kish, and Abner the son of Ner, and Joab the son of Zeruiah? All that was dedicated, even by these men, was used, according to 1 Chronicles 26:28.

J.T. That is good. The things are all dedicated, and it ought to help us as to our brethren that are not walking with us in the truth, if they do in any way show interest to be tender with them.

P.H.H. Would you say a word as to these Jewish terms in relation to the "minister of the holy places". Hebrews 8:2. Are we to carry over what that means into christianity?

J.T. Well, I think that is good; we have done it. In earlier days it was more used than we use it. It is a most beautiful phrase. First of all, what is said begins by pointing to the deity of Christ, for He "has sat down on the right hand of the throne of the greatness in the heavens". Hebrews 8:1. It is brought in in the summary of what preceded in the epistle to the Hebrews. The writer says, "We have such a one high priest", "minister of the holy places, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord has pitched, and not man". Hebrews 8:1,2. These are allusions to wilderness matters, but it is the Lord that does it, and therefore it enters into the Lord's supper. The service of God enters into it, and we have now come to the true idea of the service of God in our present considerations, and the Lord is minister of it Himself. He is viewed as actually carrying on the service of God.

S.McC. You were referring to the position that we take up in the light of John 20, as His brethren. Would

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the "minister of the holy places" Hebrews 8:2, be a position that the Lord takes up in relation to the service of God following that?

J.T. Well, we might bring in those Jewish terms there, as we often do; knowing that the Lord has come in amongst us, we are glad to see Him, and He says, "Peace be to you". John 20:19.

Reverting to the public side of the testimony of God manward in John 20:19, as referred to already, it is to be noted that this follows the service Godward. Having said "Peace be to you" John 20:19, a second time He commissions them and He descends to the idea of remitting sins, and retaining sins. So in the remarkable passage in Hebrews 12, already alluded to, the Spirit of God begins on the highest level, "mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem; and", "to the assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven", and it runs down to "God, judge of all", "and to the blood of sprinkling". Hebrews 12:22 - 24. We have to understand the order of service thus also; there are eight items, coming down from the highest level to the lowest even as the Lord does in John 20. He begins at the highest level, we might say, with the Father, but then He comes down to the forgiveness of sins. This, of course, relates to the service manward, but flowing from the high level of the service Godward.

L.P.M. So that in relation to Paul's expression "prescribing to you on this which I now enter on" 1 Corinthians 11:17, he has in mind a certain order in the service of God in the assembly. We do not begin at the top there and come down, but start at the appropriate place and proceed up.

J.T. Yes, that is exactly right. It is what we should start with. At Corinth things were not right, but the Lord's supper in itself was right, only the Corinthians were misbehaving as celebrating it. They had come together for the breaking of bread, but they were doing other things, but that did not abrogate the divine thought,

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that the service of God should begin there; although their conduct was not right, the thing was there; what they were professedly doing was right. It was the beginning of the service of God. "But in prescribing to you on this which I now enter on, I do not praise, namely, that ye come together, not for the better, but for the worse. For first, when ye come together in assembly, I hear there exist divisions among you, and I partly give credit to it. For there must also be sects among you, that the approved may become manifest among you. When ye come therefore together into one place, it is not to eat the Lord's supper". 1 Corinthians 11:17 - 20. Notice this last statement. "When ye come therefore together into one place", 1 Corinthians 11:20, that is a right thing to do, but he says as to them, "it is not to eat the Lord's supper". 1 Corinthians 11:20. They were not doing the thing rightly; they did right to come together, but for each one in eating to take his own supper before others, so that one is hungry and another drinks to excess was not right. He goes on to condemn all that, but the position was clear, that they had come together "in assembly", and in truth they were pretending to partake of the Lord's supper which was right, but they were desecrating it. So it is that we have to do with such circumstances, and yet the abstract idea remains.

Eu.R. Is our being Christ's brethren like Aaron's sons associated with Him in the service?

J.T. Well, we have already alluded to that in linking Hebrews 2:11 with Psalm 22, as the writer does. John 6:69, however, would bear on what we are saying; the Lord is there said to be "the holy one of God". Aaron is spoken of as the saint of the Lord; Psalm 106. Peter says, "we have believed and known that thou art the holy one of God". John 6:69. Aaron as seen there shows how statements come into positions as needed for use.

Eu.R. If we are with Christ, spiritually, as His brethren, is it in your mind that we would then reciprocate the love of Christ, like Rebecca?

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J.T. That is, of course, in Sarah's tent, if we use the type.

H.F.N. Would you help us in regard to the service of praise, so that we may see the spiritual import in the service of God of the position of the brethren, the assembly, and the sons?

J.T. To be concise, there are three things that may be mentioned. The first is the Lord's brethren according to John 20, and the second is the assembly according to Ephesians 5, and the third is the sons of God, spoken of in Hebrews 2. Now the thought that has been often expressed, at least by myself, is that these three items may be regarded as three phases of the same group of persons. The first phase is the brethren of Christ, according to John 20, and the second the assembly, in its peculiar relations with Christ, wifely or marital relations with Christ, and the third is the sons of God; all three running on to eternity. The passage in Ephesians 3, treated of yesterday, points to what we call eternity; "all generations of the age of ages". Ephesians 3:21. It is the nearest thought to it, I would say, that our minds can take in. It develops out of the position of Deity; that is, "the fulness of God", Ephesians 3:19, and the thought of Deity in Christ whose love surpasses knowledge. These great thoughts enter into the doxology at the end of chapter 3, as it is said "to him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages. Amen". Ephesians 3:21. That position would include the three items spoken of, besides the divine Persons, of course. Certain things have been said that would seem to clash with what I am saying, but what I am saying I have said many times, and said it in Croydon nine months ago, although it was not as clear to me as it is now, and I hope the brethren will see that as far as I am concerned, it is what I understand to enter into the Lord's supper, and that we should be free in using these terms, the spiritual import of which lead to the highest altitudes in the service of God.

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Ques. Is sonship the highest point we reach?

J.T. In our conversations three things have been spoken of as being on equal footing. I am not saying there are not modifying features, but I prefer, for clarity and brevity, that we should proceed to treat these three items as on equal footing. The quality is the same; they are the same persons, only in three different phases, in three different positions.

L.P.M. Would you say, however, that a certain order enters into the way they are to be employed; while they are equal, they are to be employed in the service in a certain way?

J.T. Well, that is what I understand. Hebrews 2:10 says that it became God, a phrase we ought to bear in mind, "it became him", (that is, God), "in bringing many sons to glory, to make perfect the leader of their salvation through sufferings". Hebrews 2:10. God is leading them to glory so it is a wonderful thought.

Rem. So that the other two relationships that you have mentioned, the brethren of Christ, and the assembly viewed femininely, run collaterally.

J.T. Just so, that is good.

Ques. Where do you bring in the man and the woman for God's pleasure?

J.T. Well, Ephesians 5, as we had it yesterday, with all the types that bear on that passage, because in Ephesians 5 we are in the presence of Christ and the assembly, and in the sense of the woman being taken out of the man; that is, the assembly being brought out of Christ. The very words are used in verse 30.

P.H.H. So that when we arrive at the thought of union, in connection with Christ and the assembly, does that form a suitable point at which to turn to the Father as having devised this in His love?

J.T. I would think so. I would think, to use the scripture references of the way Matthew speaks in chapter 22 of the King making "a wedding feast for his son", Matthew 22:2,

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and John the baptist saying, "He that has the bride is the bridegroom" John 3:29, enlarging at the same time on the heavenly one, as "above all". I think all these would bear on that. We are dependent, of course, on the Holy Spirit from beginning to end, as entering into, and dealing with these matters. It is the great cardinal fact of christianity that the Spirit of God, the other Comforter, is here to help us in all these matters. The great discourses of the Lord from John 13 to John 17 have these things in mind. The Spirit of God coming down, would enlarge on them, amongst the brethren, but it all awaited Paul for the fulness of them.

Ques. Would you say that there is opportunity for us to make much of Christ as pre-eminent in the midst of His brethren?

J.T. Quite so.

F.J.F. In connection with the second phase, the assembly, could we worship the Lord there? "He is thy Lord, and worship thou him", Psalm 45:11.

J.T. Well, quite so, only the passage in Hebrews 2 contemplates what is adjacent to the Deity, very near to it, and in saying very near I have in mind that the assembly is the nearest feature to Deity; it is very near, but not, of course, It; it is not in It, but it is the nearest feature to Deity in creature relations, and therefore we should be very tender, and careful, and holy, in bringing in the thought of union there. We are already, as it were, on the divine threshold, the Son speaking to the Father; "in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises". Hebrews 2:12.

P.H.H. Do I gather you would have liberty to do it, but you are concerned about the way it is done, is that your thought?

J.T. Yes, great care is needed, because of the delicacy of the position; the great end is God; God all in all; He is all but He is in all; we are to be filled unto all the fulness of God. Whether we are ready for that, or able

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for it, in the service, is the question to face; holiness must enter into it.

H.F.N. Are you stressing that as something beyond the thought of the Father to be reached in assembly service?

J.T. Well, I am, because the order is in John 20, My Father and your Father, My God and your God. And so in 1 Corinthians 15, God is the end, the great end, the ultimate of everything for us, the Son enabling us to carry on in relation to Him.

Ques. When you speak of the thought of God being further than the thought of the Father, on our side there is nothing further than sonship, is there?

J.T. No; quite so. I do not think anything can be predicated of the creature beyond the thought of sonship.

Rem. I ask because of a suggestion that the sons stand in relation to the Father, and men stand in relation to God.

J.T. Well, I would connect men and sons with God.

A.J.G. Would it be right to think that the assembly viewed in her feminine affection for Christ is particularly for the heart of Christ, and that when union is entered upon there is in Christ and the assembly God's full thought of man for His pleasure, the male and female.

J.T. Just so, because we begin with that in Genesis, and that is alluded to in Ephesians, and it helps as to Ephesians.

A.E.P. In the thought of "God all in all", do you include the thought of the three divine Persons?

J.T. I am doubtful that we are capable of doing that with intelligence. I believe Ephesians 3 is the great chapter for our consideration as to the Deity in all these matters. We see the proximity of it to us, and yet we are distinguished carefully from it. We are to know the length and the breadth and the height and the depth, and the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, and be filled unto all the fulness of God. The Godhead is near,

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but we are still creatures, and never get out of that relation.

Rem. And though the love of Christ as surpassing knowledge would imply deity in the One so described, yet the love of Christ is the love of a Man.

J.T. Well, but yet it is the love of that Person.

S.McC. Would the economy and the places that divine Persons have taken in it, always be a help to us in the service of God?

J.T. Yes, God has come into the economy, an economy of love, and it is difficult to say much, in the sense of comparison, as to nearness, but still there is what is clearly stated and yet there is a line beyond which we cannot pass. God is ever dwelling in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor is able to; and we always have to bear that in mind.

Ques. When you speak of "God all in all" do you have in mind the thought of supremacy?

J.T. God is supreme, of course; but Christ may be regarded in that light, too, only that in view of what we are dealing with now, God has to be regarded in a personal sense. I do not think we are capable of speaking of Him m a collective sense, because it is beyond us; the abstract is beyond us; that is, the abstract would mean that He is not in relation to any creature at all. He is in relation to Himself only, so that we are hardly capable of dealing with that, I would say.

A.J.G. Would the words 'in all' imply that God in His blessedness is pervading all?

J.T. Well, just so. We must consider how low God can come, when it is a question of His feelings and sympathies; for instance, in the case of Abraham, three persons came to him, in Mamre, as he sat in his tent door, and he discerned eventually that one of them was Jehovah. "He sat at the tent-door in the heat of the day. And he lifted up his eyes and saw, and behold, three men standing near him". Genesis 18:1,2. That is they definitely took up that

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position towards him, but near him. "And when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent-door, and bowed himself to the earth, and said, Lord, if now I have found favour in thine eyes, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant. Let now a little water be fetched, that ye may wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. And I will fetch a morsel of bread; and refresh yourselves; after that ye shall pass on; for therefore have ye passed on towards your servant. And they said, So do as thou hast said". Genesis 18:2 - 5. This shows how God in His infiniteness may come so near, and speak, others may speak for Him, because the others were angels. Well, that, I think, is to be kept in mind -- how low God can come, how low down He may come in His love for us, or His grace, or His mercy; and yet when He is asserting Himself how high He can be, and even keep us at a distance from Him, for He dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen nor can see. I think that it is wholesome to call attention to these matters, that we might be reverential in the service of God.

Ques. Would you say that glory to God is to a Person whom we know? "To us there is one God, the Father". 1 Corinthians 8:6.

J.T. Quite so. The Father is distinguished by the Lord Himself in His saying "the Father judgeth no man". John 5:22. We have so much to think of as turning towards God; and when we are considering and speaking as we are now, of the Deity itself, we are to learn to leave It in the place in which It is, in the place It has designed to keep Itself; because absoluteness and abstractedness belong to God, and we have to leave it thus. The same Persons entered into relativeness because love would enter into it; but in Themselves, in Their abstractedness, They are in relation to Themselves alone.

A.J.M. Would that suggest that Abraham apprehended the divine Persons, that God was there? He bowed down. It is the first time the word is used in scripture.

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J.T. He did; he called one of the Persons "Lord", distinguishing Him from the angels.

E.A.K. Would the last phase of the service as you have spoken of it, involved in "my God and your God", John 20:17, help to preserve us in the sense of limitation that is ever proper to creatures, and thus help forward the worship to the highest level.

J.T. Yes. Although He is still relative in that. I doubt that you can get anything beyond what is relative in the economy.

Ques. Is not that the line which we cannot pass over?

J.T. Just so.

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PAUL'S MINISTRY AND THE SERVICE OF GOD (6)

Ephesians 6:10 - 20; 1 Corinthians 12:28 - 31

J.T. It is thought wise to add the passage in 1 Corinthians, as indicating the variety of God's operations in His service. In Ephesians it is on the high level; it is said in chapter 4, that Christ ascended up on high, and again, "But that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same who has also ascended up above all the heavens, that he might fill all things". Ephesians 4:9,10. It is well that we should note the remarkable distinction between the account of the gifts in Ephesians 4 and in 1 Corinthians 12 where it is said that "God has set certain in the assembly", 1 Corinthians 12:28, not alluding to the elevation whence they have come. It is in keeping with the ministry in Corinth, which is on a lower level, Apollos having to do with it. While he was at Corinth, Paul came into Ephesus on the high level (Acts 19:1), where the greatest work was to be accomplished through the gifts. It is a question, therefore, of what circumstances we are labouring in, whether it is on the low level, that which relates to the wilderness and all its vicissitudes and contrarieties, such as we see in the Corinthian epistles, or whether we are labouring on the level of Ephesus; according to what is said "the upper districts". Acts 19:1. What God works above, or from above, must be understood as relating to the assembly in heavenly places, what goes on in heavenly places, or in relation to them. On the other hand, there is what we have to contend with, important in its own place, in assembly government.

E.C.M. Would you say a word as to the point of the order in which the gifts are mentioned? In both Ephesians and Corinthians, the apostles are mentioned first.

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J.T. It is first to be noted that the gifts in Ephesians 4 are persons, but the Corinthian reference is firstly to the position; they are set in the assembly; "first apostles, secondly prophets", 1 Corinthians 12:28, a larger number, required on account of the variety of difficulties in the wilderness. In Ephesians it is said "he has given some apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some shepherds and teachers". Ephesians 4:11. The more universal services are in mind in the upper regions, the persons involved being more in evidence, as personality has more to do with it. The order in 1 Corinthians is "first, apostles; secondly, prophets; thirdly, teachers"; 1 Corinthians 12:28; the gift of pastors being left out. "shepherds and teachers" Ephesians 4:11, are one gift in Ephesians. In Corinthians it is only teachers then miraculous powers; that is to say, Corinthians has the sign gifts in mind, but they are not mentioned in Ephesians. Therefore it is miraculous powers, gifts of healing, helps, and governments, and tongues; as if in the lower order of service there was the need of signs. The Corinthians were making too much of them, but undoubtedly they were needed in view of the position in Corinth.

J.H.T. Is the rough work indicated in 1 Corinthians 16:6 where Paul says, "perhaps I will stay with you, or even winter with you"; and then he says, "I will not see you now in passing", "But I remain in Ephesus until Pentecost. For a great door is opened to me and an effectual one". 1 Corinthians 16:7 - 9. Is that the contrast?

J.T. I would say that. I think we can see in the facts relative to Corinth that the work was specially rough and hard; possibly calling our attention to the larger cities and centres of industrialism, and to the rough moral conditions therein. It was a terribly bad city, Corinth; hence the discipline that had to be resorted to in chapter 5, and what was indicated as further needed in the second epistle; the wickedness that was there, and the apostle unable to deal with it, because of the general state of the saints.

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Rem. Evangelists are mentioned in Ephesians 4, but in 1 Corinthians 12 evangelists are left out.

J.T. Well, I would say that the conditions we have alluded to would perhaps preclude normal freedom for evangelical service. The unspiritual condition at Corinth did not warrant evangelical service. The background for evangelistic services requires a spiritual structure to stand behind them. Hence the incongruity of what is commonly called missionary work, because there is no background to support it. The so-called churches do not supply the background; they supply money, of course, but they do not supply the spiritual background that is needed for evangelical service among the heathen; the effect, therefore, is very meagre; the result of missionary work in Asia is very meagre indeed. The Spirit of God has withdrawn from it really, I would say, and is working among the saints themselves in view of recovery from declension.

P.H.H. Do you see the background in Acts 2; the Spirit having come, and the preaching going out with that behind it?

J.T. Yes, I think the conditions, normal conditions were there; the saints were all together in one place as the Spirit came in, and hence Peter was free to set out the gospel as it should be set out, with the proper background to it.

H.C. Is the background seen in Acts 13?

J.T. Very good; that is just the connection. We are told first of the history of the assembly that was there. We are told previously in chapter 11 that Paul and Barnabas toiled for a year, and the remarkable result was that the assembly was formed in the place. Paul and Barnabas taught the crowd in the assembly, as the work proceeded, the crowd diminished and the assembly increased, so that the full idea of the assembly was reached there. Chapter 13 tells us that in the assembly that was there, the ministry, the service of God was

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carried on. This corresponds with what has been said, as to the background needed for such service as missionary work; the work was going on, and it is said that they ministered to the Lord and fasted and then the Spirit of God says "Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them. Then, having fasted and prayed, and having laid their hands on them, they let them go". Acts 13:2,3 The Holy Spirit sent them forth, the assembly did not send them. In ordinary missionary circles, the churches, so-called, send men forth, but it is not according to God at all; to send forth in His work is the sole prerogative of the Spirit of God.

Ques. Would you say why the way of more surpassing excellence is separated from the matter of gift in the end of 1 Corinthians 12?

J.T. I do not think it is separated from it, it is simply mentioned by itself, as an additional thing, a more excellent way, as if Paul would put gifts in the second place and love in the first place. The Corinthians were defective as to love, they were deficient in it, and therefore we have chapter 13 of the first epistle. It is to bring out the excellent way, "the way of more surpassing excellence"; 1 Corinthians 12:31 that is the way of God, really, which began with Paul's service in the early chapters of the Acts. It is called "the way of God" Acts 18:26, in the instruction of Apollos, but as Paul came in, it was known as "the way", meaning christianity and all that enters into christianity; it is the way of God, the way out of the world. That includes the idea, in the working out of things in the assembly, of the more excellent way of love.

Ques. Would the divine thought be that love should be operative in the exercise of gift? Is that not why you get the gifts in chapter 12, and the exercise of them in chapter 14?

J.T. Well, if there was much of it, of love. I could not say very much as to that, but I am sure it was there, in principle, but the way of surpassing excellence is brought

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in in chapter 13. It is brought in in the end of chapter 12, but it really alludes to what follows in chapter 13, and it involves that we should covet the best gins; we should make selections, and weigh what we should use in the Lord's service.

C.O.B. How would the present background affect evangelical work with us today?

J.T. Well, the truth is that there is great weakness, that it is a day of small things; this has been recognised among the saints from the outset of the so-called revival in which we have part. The weakness of the position is recognised, and it is in keeping with the Lord's letter to Philadelphia. Philadelphia means brotherly love, and undoubtedly the Lord knew that, but He spoke of the position as weak; that is, "a little power", Revelation 3:8, the strength was there, however, and loyalty to Christ, too, was there, but it was a little affair.

F.P.S. What place has the local company in regard of the service of those having gift?

J.T. Well, I think it has a place. The Lord has helped us in recent times in setting up what are called care meetings, not simply meetings of elders, but care meetings. The brethren spend much time in these care meetings to allocate ways and means for brethren to move about in service, and, of course, it is not simply the ways and means materially but the ways and means prayerfully, so that the position becomes very practical as regards those who are serving, even in the little meetings, but however small, they should get together in prayer.

Ques. Is there good background in John 20, where you have the breath of Christ before He sends them forth, and poor background in chapter 21, when Peter says, "I go to fish"; John 21:3; and they went with him?

J.T. That is a good contrast. We have already dwelt on that chapter, especially to point out what has been somewhat overlooked, but what enters into the truth in

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the chapter, as to the assembly. There is the message through Mary Magdalene, but what is in mind ultimately is the provision to remit sins. The Lord breathed into the disciples, which, of course, would be the greatest thought on the spiritual side, much greater than any physical means employed; the Lord's breath should be behind all going forth. I mean, the breathing into the saints, the suggestion is very touching. He breathed into them, and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit"; John 20:22; so that the wherewithal spiritually would be there, in the right spirit, the Spirit of Christ, as the question of remission of sins or retention of sins was brought up. It is very suggestive, I think, and affecting too, that the evangelical side is immediately in question, when we have the high level of John 20.

F.J.F. Would that be maintained in Acts 16 in Paul, when it is said, that "the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them", Acts 16:7, to go to Bithynia?

J.T. Yes; showing that the Lord operates now levitically. In Mark He operates universally, saying "Go into all the world, and preach the glad tidings to all the creation". Mark 16:15. The world is the sphere of the preaching, an adverse sphere, but the creation is not viewed as adverse, in itself it is of God, so that it is the sphere of the preaching. Then the Lord acts levitically, as well as universally, and as the Creator too, and so He forbids; "the Spirit of Jesus did not allow", Acts 16:7, Paul to go to a certain place. Again, we have the man of Macedonia beckoning to him to come over to Macedonia and help there, and the apostle and those with him gathered that he should go there, and he did go there, but instead of the man of Macedonia he found a woman of Thyatira, whose heart the Lord opened to attend to the things spoken by Paul, showing that it is a question, not only of the actual preaching, but of the person through whom it is coming to us. Hence Paul is the one selected for the preaching among the gentiles.

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Ques. Would the background also be seen in Matthew 13 in the seine net being likened to the kingdom of the heavens? They sat down and gathered the good fish into vessels.

J.T. I would say that. Remarkable intelligence is working behind the operations, the deliberation as to the fish. That would enter into the care meetings, as we have been saying, so that we know what is to be refused and what is to be retained, but the gospel of Mark is important for us now that we have spoken of missionary work. The widest sphere is indicated; that is to say, the creation. The preachers would be free, if there was nothing more to be considered, to go anywhere, but there is something more, there is the levitical control exercised by the Lord, so that a servant is not to go where he pleases, he is to be guided, he is to get his guidance from the Lord, and that ought to come down to the very smallest matters.

Ques. Have we an instance of that in the gospel by Mark, when the Lord went up into the mountain and called whom He would that they might be with Him, and that He might send them forth to preach?

J.T. Quite so. The Lord made His own selection; sovereign selection is more apparent in Mark than in the other gospels. In Luke He prayed all night before the appointment of the apostles, but in Mark it is the Lord making His own selection, and He had in mind that they should be with Him, so that He might send them forth to preach; that is to say that He might exercise, I would think, His levitical function as to where they are to be sent.

A.W.G.T. Would you say how levitical control works practically?

J.T. Well, I would say, as regards the individual, it works out in seeking the Lord's mind as to what he would do, and where he would go. He does not seek the assembly's mind, nor is he dependent on their judgment

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as to where he should go, but he is dependent on their fellowship.

A.R. Would you say that one might be guided by a call? The man from Macedonia says, "Come over and help us".

J.T. Well, it would be something to consider. In Acts 16, Paul says, "assuredly gathering", Acts 16:10, and that would suggest the levitical part of the matter. The levitical part had already come in immediately before and the apostle would be affected by it, and the sequel as to Philippi would further remind the apostle of the wisdom of getting immediate guidance.

A.E.B. In Acts 8 we have preaching of the word, and then the gospel preached to the Samaritans, then Philip as subject to control was caught away by the Spirit to go into the desert, and the Ethiopian is secured. I was wondering in connection with what you were saying as to missionary work, whether we do not see one of the best samples there.

J.T. Well, there is one thing you omitted, and it is important, to notice, that Philip had no commission, when he went down to Samaria. He preached and had success, but there was defectiveness in the preaching. Simon Magus was not detected by him, and Jerusalem had to send Peter and John in order that the converts should get the Holy Spirit. These are most important facts which enter into the question of evangelical service.

A.E.B. I was thinking that we have to be content now to move about in an individual way, to secure individuals, rather than have great numbers in mind.

J.T. Well, what we are dealing with now are the great general principles governing the service of God, implying gift; some of the gifts being said to come down from heaven, the Lord having gone up there and sent them down from thence. The others are sent out by God from the assembly, and then we have come to Philip who was a deacon; he was an appointed deacon, not an evangelist,

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but he began to evangelise, and was successful as regards converts, but apparently lacking what characterised Abigail, discernment, a very important matter in those serving. He did not discern Simon, who was allowed to go on with him as though he were a convert, whereas he was not. Moreover, not only had Philip no commission to serve, but the Spirit of God did not even direct him; when the time came for direction, it is an angel that directs him, not the Holy Spirit.

Ques. Did Philip develop into an evangelist, for he is spoken of in Acts 21 as Philip the evangelist?

J.T. Well, quite so, but he was not an evangelist when he started.

Ques. Do you think there was a measure of independence then in his going down to Samaria?

J.T. Well, I should not like to say that, because evidently he was blessed of God. God is wonderfully gracious to those who are preaching, wonderfully considerate of us. At the same time He will not forget to remind us if there is any defect in our preaching, or in our methods, and that was how it turned out in his case, so that an angel directs him to go down to Gaza, which was desert. It was most commendable, and has often been commented upon that he left a good field, a good piece of work, and went to a desert to preach to one man, but it was only an angel that told him to do it. Of course, it was a great thing to be told at all, but still, the Holy Spirit told him the next time, and I would think it was because he did right the first time; when he is ordered to do a thing he knows how to do it as under orders, and therefore it is the Spirit of God that orders him the next time, and keeps to him until he is raptured, so that he is greatly honoured, and it is as having been raptured, that he is called an evangelist.

H.F.N. What would be the position of Apollos in regard to this great thought of service? We have had the evangelist; how would Apollos come in then?

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J.T. Well, he was mighty in the scriptures, and evidently Aquila and Priscilla who heard him noticed it and took him to them, for it was clear that he needed to be more accurate than he was, which is often the case with those of us who serve; we are not accurate, and yet Apollos was of an accurate mind, an accurate kind of man. All he needed was to be told, and he would adjust himself. Aquila and Priscilla took him to them, I suppose quietly somewhere, and spoke in a suitable seemly way, and then he is commended by the brethren as having been adjusted by good judgment.

F.J.F. Is it not also interesting that when Paul would have him go to Corinth, it says he was not so minded. Would that be the levitical control under the Lord, that he would not go unless he was sent?

J.T. Just so; I think Apollos was sensitive as to the whole position fearing that he might be made use of at Corinth against the apostle Paul. He would not put himself in that position; that is what I think is really meant, but still what comes out is that he was serving independently of the influence of other servants; he was not like Timotheus or Titus. He was sent out, he was from Alexandria, a disciple of John, and God had taken him up, I would say, independently of Paul, but as to the truth he soon fell into line with what was of God, and thus he would move with Paul, but as directly under the Lord in his own service, so that Paul recognises him as a fellow servant.

S.McC. Would you say a word as to how the angel of the Lord, speaking to Philip, and the Spirit speaking to Philip, would work out today in relation to those that are like Philip?

J.T. Well, I suppose it would work out through the brethren. The brethren are available; of course, there are a good many now, thank God, and they are available. I believe, too, the care meetings are honoured of God in the way they are taking care of those who are serving,

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financially and spiritually, and I am sure that the Spirit of God would use them, to help anyone who sought guidance.

Ques. Would you allow that the idea of the angel might connect with what was circumstantial, whereas the Spirit would be rather what was intuitive in the person as confirmed by the spiritual feelings of the brethren?

J.T. Yes, God uses circumstances, maybe governmental, or business circumstances, or the like; at the same time the angelic service is mentioned too specifically to fix it just that way, because they are ministering servants sent out for ministry, on account of those who shall be heirs of salvation.

T.H. I was wondering if the Lord in John's gospel would be a model for us both in regard of the woman in John 4, and the man in John 9; restfulness marked His service in chapter 4, and then in chapter 9, "as he passed on, he saw a man blind from birth". John 9:1. Would that be a model for us in regard to our evangelical service; the feature of restfulness and then being in touch with persons?

J.T. Yes, and we ought to add, that the remarks of the disciples were out of place. They would make out that something had happened governmentally to the man, but it was not a governmental matter. It was on a higher level, it was a question of the works of God, and the Lord was here in relation to all that, the works of God. Hence the man is a case selected by God to show His works, and the Lord is ready to do the service.

H.F.N. What is the great object in the gifts in Ephesians 4? What are the servants aiming at? It says there "for the perfecting of the saints; with a view to the work of the ministry, with a view to the edifying of the body of Christ; until we all arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ". Hebrews 4:12,13.

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J.T. Well, I am glad you bring all that up because what comes before me is that Ephesians directs our minds to the realm, the uncreated realm as we may call it, where God is wholly free. He is not forced to do anything, the whole position is free, so that He is ready to do things according to His wisdom. The Lord elected to go "up above all the heavens", Ephesians 4:10, which is remarkable, and the gifts are given from there, as if God is doing things more on the principle of sovereignty and wisdom, the work is therefore perfectly done, and the result is in the assembly, not merely the conversion of souls. The assembly is to be there in the heavenlies, the evidence and testimony to the all-various wisdom of God, and she is formed now accordingly; whereas as we have already said as to Corinth, other things had to come out.

E.A.K. Is there any significance in the quotation being from Psalm 68, in view of the peculiar setting of that Psalm, "Let God arise"? Psalm 68:1.

J.T. Well, there is; it shows that even then God had in mind the high level, that He would work from the standpoint of His counsels, and in entire freedom, working out a pattern of whatever He would please to do. God is free in His work in that sense, in that realm above.

E.A.K. I was thinking of the invincibility of the movements of the ark, and does not that in principle enter into gift, that as having been given in that way from heaven, the power is in principle invincible?

J.T. Yes, the power of God would be with it. The psalm is wonderful in that sense, the variety of persons there, and the character of the work, and I think it is to bring out just what we are saying, the Ephesian level of things.

P.H.H. When it says, "until we all arrive" Ephesians 4:13, at these various things is that what the service and the gifts have in view, or is that the intention from the divine side in selecting the gifts?

J.T. I think it is to bring out the quality of the work

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that is in mind there, sign gifts are omitted, it is to bring out the quality of the work in the epistle to the Ephesians. God has a free hand, He works from the standpoint of His counsels, not simply for relief in men as in ordinary evangelical service, but work which is according to pattern, and resultful according to pattern, all leading up to the assembly operating of itself; edifying itself in love. Things are much easier on that line, and things are all done on the principle of pattern, and therefore you get the results; they are seen in the brethren of Christ and the assembly itself, and the sons of God.

A.J.G. So that the gifts themselves are to have the pattern in mind. Is that your thought?

J.T. Yes, just so.

A.J.G. And really the end of their service finally is to make the assembly independent of gift, is it not?

J.T. Well, it works itself, edifying itself in love, which is a wonderful triumph that God has that; the point in the section that we read has that in mind. I believe the principle of that extended back to Moses. He was to go up alone in Exodus 24, although he was to take Joshua with him, but in principle he was going up alone. The priests and Aaron and the elders, the seventy elders were on a lower level; they met God, however, on that level, but they are not said to have gone up the mount. The mount was the place where God was, and where Moses was to be with God, and with the pattern in his hands. So that we have as a result the choice of Bezaleel and the other servant Aholiab; it brings out the freedom that God has in those cases, so that you have the tabernacle.

W.H. Why is the thought of apostles added in the foundation in Ephesians 2, whereas you have the other gifts in chapter 4?

J.T. Well, I suppose chapter 4 is to bring out the full thought that we are dealing with, not simply a question of authority and power in the apostles, but the whole

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range of gifts operating in the sense in which we have spoken, in the Ephesian sense. So that God has His own results, because the Ephesian line is for divine results; the Corinthian line is to meet difficulties, and to overcome them. So that others are needed, signs are needed and the like, and helps even are needed.

W.H. Is not the prophetic service stressed in Corinth in the epistle to the Corinthians?

J.T. I would say that. They are told to covet earnestly the best gifts, but rather that they should prophesy. That is what God has helped us in, I believe, in recent times, the principle of prophecy, in meeting conditions, even helps coming in, persons that we had thought little about sometimes come up and do the work unexpectedly.

Ques. What should govern us in localities in regard of inviting gifts whether for ministering to the saints or preaching the gospel?

J. T. Well, I would say, that what we are saying would be a help if you have to invite someone, only I would add, consider the local ability there may be. Your inquiry has reference to holiday or weekend meetings, and as to such, what I remarked as to local or nearby ability should be well considered.

H.F.N. Would you help us as to what we are to arrive at according to Ephesians 4? There is the full knowledge of the Son of God; the unity of the faith; the measure of stature of Christ, and the body edifying itself in love.

J.T. Well, we are to arrive at the full result of love in the assembly. That is to say, having in mind the assembly formed, not exactly as we have been speaking of it as the bride of Christ, but usable in divine service anywhere. We are to arrive at these things and therefore we are to eliminate all childishness, to be no longer babes. The ministry is to make men of us, and not only so, that the assembly itself may function, that is the great end, because what God has in mind about it is that the

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assembly shall function eternally, and it has to learn to function now.

Ques. Does the choice of David from 1 Chronicles 23 onwards, indicate the free hand that God has in view of the full service under Solomon?

J.T. Well, I think another thing comes in there; that is the 24 courses, the wide range that David had in mind in his wisdom, because the wisdom of David enters into the success of Solomon. Solomon has wisdom too, but the 24 courses is to bring out not only the administrative side, but the love side. He begins with his own instruments, "the instruments which I made", 1 Chronicles 23:5, he says, and then the 24 courses governing all the departments in the kingdom, show that David had wisdom from God in all he did. His kingdom was a departmental one; things were done departmentally, whatever work it might be, there would be a department governing it, and a head for that department. So that things were greatly expedited under his rule. Solomon, of course, knew that and no doubt enlarged on it, although there is less about the 24 courses under Solomon than there is under David. This is in view in the book of Revelation, I believe, in the place David has, the skill that he had, because Christ is said to be the root and offspring of David.

S.McC. Would you say how you view the "fulness of the Christ" in Ephesians 4:13 as over against the "fulness of him who fills all in all" Ephesians 1:23 in the end of the first chapter?

J.T. Well, the first chapter is the greatest, working out from the apostle's prayer for them, chapter 4 is working out from gift, and so we are told what the end in view is. Beginning with the ascension of Christ, and then the descent; that is to say that He went down, He went down to secure the results, not simply the power in heaven to furnish gifts, but He went down to secure everything. And hence it is said, "he that descended is the same who has also ascended up above all the heavens, that he might fill all things". Ephesians 4:10. He had the filling of all things, as stated in

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the first chapter, in mind, at the start, but He now has the gifts in mind, as if entering into that, that He might fill all things. He is bringing the gifts out from such an elevation with a view to filling all things. They are to subserve the divine counsels really, and so "he has given some apostles and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some shepherds and teachers, for the perfecting of the saints". Ephesians 4:11. The full result is, "the perfecting of the saints", but something that operates or functions of itself in love. It is an eternal thought I would think worked out now already. So that we have some sense of what is going on in heaven, though we must wait to see it finally, but we can enter into things now in such services as the present meetings afford us. As speaking together the all-various wisdom of God comes out, feebly it may be, but still it comes out, as with one and another speaking by the Spirit we arrive at the truth; for as subject we arrive at the truth this way. These great results are all mentioned I believe, to show what comes out of love operating amongst the brethren, and especially gifts, and as I was saying, not to go too far afield, but to begin at home, and see what there is, and see whether it may not work out something that is needed.

A.M. Would Tychicus at the end of chapter 6 be a kind of pattern man labouring on this high level, "Tychicus, the beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you"? Ephesians 6:21. In Colossians 4:8, Paul says, "whom I have sent to you for this very purpose, that he might know your state, and that he might encourage your hearts".

J.T. Epaphras is a similar man in Colossians, one that would help the apostle by observation as to what was needed in the place. So here "Tychicus, the beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, will make known to you". Ephesians 6:21. There is this communication in an orderly way between those who are served and those who serve, so that they know what is needed, what is being

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done. There is an allusion in Acts 11:22 that helps, I think, in this, that is "the ears of the assembly"; that is, the local brethren have ears and they advise those who are in the field, so to say, that in such and such a place something is needed. The care meeting helps in all that.

A.H. Would you say that all these gifts are coordinated in view of this great end?

J.T. Well, I think they are. There is the Prince of the princes of the Levites, and there is the Spirit of Jesus, who as already alluded to, did not suffer even the apostle to go to a certain place; that is, there is control. We get here, too, what has already been called attention to, these brothers who are the personnel of the service, both in Colosse and at Ephesus. They were in accord with Paul, suggesting to him, both here and at Colosse what was needed, especially at Colosse.

H.F.N. Might we have a word in regard to the conflict?

J.T. The subject begins in verse 10, "For the rest, brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the might of his strength. Put on the panoply of God, that ye may be able to stand against the artifices of the devil: because our struggle is not against blood and flesh, but against principalities, against authorities, against the universal lords of this darkness, against spiritual power of wickedness in the heavenlies. For this reason take to you the panoply of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and, having accomplished all things, to stand". Ephesians 6:10 - 13. It might read, 'having overcome all things'; it means to carry through and put in execution all that is purposed and called for, in spite of opposition. "Stand therefore, having girt about your loins with truth, and having put on the breast-plate of righteousness, and shod your feet with the preparation of the glad tidings of peace: besides all these things, having taken the shield of faith with which ye will be able to quench all the inflamed darts of the wicked one.

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Have also the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is God's word; praying at all seasons, with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching unto this very thing with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints; and for me in order that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth to make known with boldness the mystery of the glad tidings, for which I am an ambassador bound with a chain". Ephesians 6:14 - 20. We are to carry this through with us -- "bound with a chain"; it is the time of imprisonment, but nevertheless, the time of Paul's own perfecting in ministry, skill that he acquired, and the sympathies of love that he acquired too. It is for us to consider how the devil got into heavenly places, and when the heavenly warfare began, and how it is to finish, because it is to finish. Michael is to have to do with it finally, but the Lord Himself will have to do with it, as we learn in Revelation 19, when the beast and the false prophet will be taken, and cast alive into the lake of fire, showing the summary manner in which the conflict will end. Now it is a question of our struggling with it, and understanding that the devil has a place in heaven. That would work rather in connection with politics and the like, whereas the wilderness side is more in the wickedness that is current on the earth. These items of the conflict are given so that we might know what to use and when to use it, because there are different weapons involved, but the whole armour of God is needed. It refers to the way in which He has met evil. He restrains evil and keeps it down and ultimately overcomes it, it is a question of God.

Ques. Do you mean that sometimes the conflict may be in public testimony and sometimes in prayer?

J.T. Just so, maybe in writing books like the "Irrationalism of Infidelity", a great weapon in the hands of a great man, to meet much evil, but it is spiritual wickedness in the heavenlies, that is the sort of thing that is in mind largely.

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J.J.T. Why does he bring in the thought of "besides all these, having taken the shield of faith", Ephesians 6:16, why the shield of faith so prominent?

J.T. You are covered, you are covered under all circumstances by that, you can take refuge there, it is a thing to learn how to use; how to take refuge in faith. And so the Lord says at a critical time, Have faith in God.

F.J.F. God says to Abraham, "I am thy shield, thy exceeding great reward", Genesis 15:1.

J.T. Just so. That is the first place where you get "the word of Jehovah" mentioned in the Scriptures; Jehovah says, "Fear not, Abram", Genesis 15:1, but the idea of faith must come in, and it was there with Abraham, but he was not to fear. We have to learn not to be afraid of the enemy; but to meet him squarely, so to speak.

Ques. Gideon sent the fainthearted back, did he not? Those that were fearful might damage others.

J.T. Yes, just so.

Ques. In the last century was the conflict mostly ecclesiastical? Mr. Darby's book, written against Newman, has been mentioned, but in this century the conflict seems very largely political, as though it is more the power of the beast appearing in political matters to crush the saints calling for much in the way of public faith and testimony against the evil.

J.T. Yes, and we come down to our own matters, when the saints of God, beginning with 1848 had a terrible conflict with their own brethren, resulting in what are now called Open Brethren; not that we wish to attack them now, but they were attacked then. They attacked the truth then, and a large proportion of the Collected Writings deal with that. Following on that was the attack on the truth of the sufferings of Christ. That had to be met. Following that the moral question, called the Ramsgate question; that had to be settled. All that happened in 35 years. And then in 1884 there were two

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issues, one in Reading and another in Montreal, and Plainfield. These two questions had to be met, and they were met. The Lord met them through one and another that He had qualified to do so, but in these we are reminded of the danger of allowing divisions and of the need to judge ourselves. There are a great many now in the field, in ministry, and there is a great danger of rivalry in it, and these divisions that I have mentioned largely arose from rivalry, especially the Ramsgate matter, and the Montreal matter. Then there was the Reading matter, smaller of course. There was also the Bexhill trouble, as we call it. Pardon me for using these names, but the brethren may as well know and carry these things before them, before the Lord -- how the conflict has raged and how the brethren have had to suffer, and see how much might have been avoided, had skill and wisdom been used. It is now for us to profit by what has been experienced by earlier brethren, and to try and save ourselves from another division, that the Lord may spare us, so that there may be no wolf to scatter the brethren until we are taken to heaven.

A.J.G. So would you say that the armour is a matter of subjective conditions which would prevent any element of untruth getting in amongst us?

J.T. Very good; any element of untruth getting in amongst us; how easily it may arise and spread as leaven amongst us, too. Certain things arising, in themselves small, but spreading because of influences brought to bear on them.

A.W.G.T. Would what you say be covered by the word "our struggle"? Ephesians 6:12. It might be almost said, "our one great struggle".

J.T. Well, exactly. The word is "because our struggle is not against blood and flesh, but against principalities, against authorities, against the universal lords of this darkness, against spiritual power of wickedness in the heavenlies". Ephesians 6:12. What we are dealing with is largely spiritual.

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The Lord has saved the brethren, the younger men especially now, from actual combat, warfare, physical warfare, but we have to think of the spiritual warfare that is now in mind in this passage, and it says, "having accomplished all things, to stand. Stand therefore". Ephesians 6:13,14. That is to say, do not give way. Stand firmly in right principles.

P.L. Is it to hold what we have already; the struggle is defensive?

J.T. Quite so.

J.T.Jr. Would Ephesians 4:1 - 4 be instructive for us in that sense? The apostle says, "walk", "with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love; using diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace"; Ephesians 4:1 - 3; using diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit.

J.T. These are the verses that govern the whole passage, indeed. They show how we keep ourselves; "with all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, bearing with one another in love; using diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit"; Ephesians 4:2,3 that is to say, to keep away things, to refuse things that would damage the unity. It was the first sorrow at Corinth which the apostle had to contend with, he had to deal with disunited conditions.

F.J.F. There would be no rivalry, if we had the spirit of Paul in this epistle, regarding himself as "less than the least of all saints". Ephesians 3:8.

J.T. Quite so.

J.McG. Did the rivalry that existed between Saul and David afford opportunity for the Philistine element to get in, so that we read in the end, that "the shield of the mighty is vilely cast away, the shield of Saul, as not anointed with oil"? 2 Samuel 1:21.

J.T. That is solemnly instructive.

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CHRIST AMONG THE NATIONS

Colossians 1:24 - 29; Genesis 41:39 - 52; Genesis 43:16

J.T. The passage in Colossians is suggested because in it Paul speaks of the mystery of Christ among the nations; he says, "to whom God would make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the nations, which is Christ in you the hope of glory: whom we announce, admonishing every man, and teaching every man, in all wisdom, to the end that we may present every man perfect in Christ. Whereunto also I toil, combating according to his working, which works in me in power". Colossians 1:27 - 29 The hope is that we shall see what Colossians has in mind in this, the nations being in view and the nations only. Ephesians contemplates Jew and gentile; the full thought, and the type entering into that would be Isaac, whereas it is thought that Joseph is the type that fits in with Colossians. Joseph is a man of toil, a man of great affairs; the food of the world was put under his charge. The verse in Genesis 43 is to call attention to the fact that he seemingly had just time to meet his brethren at noon; whereas Isaac had plenty of time, for he went out to meditate in the field; he is under no special charge, he was looking for Rebecca; that is, Christ and the assembly are in mind. The full thought is set out in Genesis 24.

Joseph is fully occupied, especially now in toil. It is thought that this side of the truth should be better known amongst us, and that the Lord would help us at this time in looking at it thus. It is "Christ in you"; Colossians 1:27; Colossians presenting in this what is among the nations. So the passage in Genesis 41 serves to bear all this out. Pharaoh said to Joseph, "Since God has made all this known to thee, there is none so discreet and wise as thou. Thou shalt be over my house, and according to thy commandment shall all my people regulate themselves; only concerning the throne will I be greater than thou". Genesis 41:39,40.

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We are told then how old Joseph was, thirty years of age. "And Joseph went out from Pharaoh, and passed through the whole land of Egypt". Genesis 41:46. There is no thought of his having any leisure, or any time allotted to him. Although Deuteronomy 24:5, speaks of a year being allotted to a man when he takes a new wife, there was nothing of this with Joseph; whereas there was with Isaac; so here it says, "And to Joseph were born two sons before the year of famine came" Genesis 41:50, and of these he said, "God has caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction". Genesis 41:52. I think we can see in this brief outline the great difference to be noted between Isaac and Joseph in regard to the marriage question, and in regard to administration.

Ques. Would the type help us to realise the great value of time and the great matters that are on hand in the administration?

J.T. I think many of us feel that time is about the scarcest thing we have, and therefore it becomes a question as to how we can use it, and especially in regard to the service of God. Colossians, as the brethren would know, is more limited than Ephesians; it treats of the position of Christ now in view of the Jews being given up according to Paul's statement in Acts 18:6, "from henceforth I will go to the nations". In view of the Lord's coming, the work of the ministry is now a question of what is among the gentiles in remnant character; and there is need for the right use of time, and the preparation that it affords in view of the rapture, in view of the heavenly position.

W.J. Is it encouraging that the working is in power?

J.T. I think that. The word in Colossians 1:29, is, "Whereunto also I toil, combating according to his working, which works in me in power".

W.J. Is the apostle in sympathy with the Lord in that?

J.T. The apostle would represent the feelings of the

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Lord in heaven. The Lord had said of him, that he "is an elect vessel to me", "for I will show to him how much he must suffer for my name". Acts 9:15,16. Paul himself tells us how far he travelled in the service carrying the testimony of the Christ among the nations, because he was appointed "to be minister of Christ Jesus to the nations". Romans 15:16. He tells us in Romans 15:19, how far he had travelled, and he says, "from Jerusalem, and in a circuit round to Illyricum", (I) "have fully preached the glad tidings of the Christ". He says further, "Wherefore also I have been often hindered from coming to you"; Romans 15:22, meaning, to the Romans. He speaks also in this passage of going to Spain; hence the nations, and especially the West, are in mind in Paul's ministry. There is little or nothing in the East. What was is gone, but as regards those who are actually in the truth in the East, that is, in Asia, there are hardly any except a few, so that God is clearly showing that the position is in the West. It is a small position, a remnant position, nevertheless it is to be marked by Paul's energy and the love that would mark him as representing the Lord, as one who loved the Lord and who knew the Lord's love for him.

H.G.H. Would you say, that it is part of the mystery that food is now among the nations? Is that involved in the mystery referring to Colossians?

J.T. It is remarkable even as regards physical food, the western nations have it, but you are speaking of spiritual food. God is ordering everything according to His own will, and we see that things are working up to an end, and that end is to bring out the assembly, at least in the principle of it; and something too of the order and love and intelligence that characterise it; especially intelligence. So that Joseph is an apt type of Christ, and of the power of Christ in others at the present time; a working man, as you might say, and yet a man of great administrative power; a man of God, a young man, a man loved of his father, as Christ is.

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E.C.M. Would that link up with the Lord in John's gospel, "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand", John 3:35. I was thinking of the administration in John, it is through Him.

J.T. That is what we thought of, and it is the point for the moment. I think it is the question of the Father and the Son and the Spirit, especially the Spirit as to actual operations; the Spirit remaining here now and the saints having come back to the truth of the Holy Spirit so that His operations go on. We have these meetings, and they are resultful all over the world where the saints are.

Ques. Does this epistle to the Colossians have in mind the effectiveness of the Spirit's work in the saints? We have often noticed that there is no mention of the Spirit except "love in the Spirit", Colossians 1:18, but His work seems to shine out.

J.T. Hence in the dark ages and up to the Reformation there is hardly anything of what we call subjective truth, but now there is. Colossians has that in mind; it is what the Spirit has wrought in the saints. Presently it will be said, "What hath God wrought". Number 23:23. The more, of course, we recognise the work of God the more we shall see that; just as we have been reminded in the last verse of Colossians 1, "Whereunto also I toil, combating according to his working, which works in me in power". Colossians 1:29. As far as I know, the work of God is going on in a remarkable way.

W.J. Does it fit in with the thought of the kingdom of the Son of His love in power?

J.T. Just so; that is in this epistle.

A.M.P. Are we to take on the toil that leads to it? Paul says, in the opening of chapter 2, that he embraced in his combat, even "as many as have not seen my face in flesh". Colossians 2:1. His toil would be deepened in that way by the difficulties of the position, just as Joseph's was.

J.T. He speaks of it more than once, and he speaks of it in others, which, I think, is a thing we should pay attention to also, besides speaking of what is with Paul

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and what is in Christ Himself, but in others such as Epaphras. As you said already, it embraces "as many as have not seen my face in the flesh". Colossians 2:1. We have the thought in Colossians 4; "Epaphras, who is one of you, the bondman of Christ Jesus", "always combating earnestly for you in prayers". Colossians 4:12. So that the principle of toil is in the epistle, and, therefore, one is encouraged to bring in Joseph, because he is the type that represents it peculiarly and also a type of Christ as having His spouse. There is nothing said of Joseph having the year of rest, in taking a new wife; he keeps on, toils on, he cannot evade it, because of the immensity of the work. Likewise the brethren have very little time, for the Lord would have us to keep on at the work, knowing that "your labour is not in vain in the Lord". 1 Corinthians 15:58. It is a time of labour.

Ques. Is that why the nations are particularly in view?

J.T. Quite so; involving travel. We have become accustomed to this lately, the young men especially, for the globe has been covered by them in ordinary work, and God surely is helping us to take in the extent of His work.

P.H.H. Did you say just now there was a difference in the marriage question and the administration question? The difference between Colossians and Ephesians, Joseph and Isaac, particularly bearing on the marriage question and the administration question. I think you said there was a great difference.

J.T. I think there is. Ephesians is the prime apostolic epistle. It embraces the assembly in its entirety. It embraces it as seen in Eve and Rebecca, whereas in Joseph we come down to an Egyptian person and there is not anything very distinctive about her, save that she is a priest's daughter, which is something. Joseph in his marriage time is a man of toil, he has an immense amount of toil to deal with.

I thought that we might speak first of Ephesians, and Genesis 24. According to the type, in Deuteronomy 24,

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when a man married a new wife he had a year exempt from toil and combat, but there is nothing like that allotted to Joseph; he has to go on with the work, and he does go on and succeeds in it. The hope is that the Lord will enable the brethren in these closing days to go on with the work, and to go on with it in intelligence knowing "that your labour is not in vain in the Lord", 1 Corinthians 15:58, with the end in view that the results are for heaven.

P.H.H. Were you thinking that we ought to come into the light of the assembly in its wifely characteristic before we can go on with the administration, because Joseph was married before he went out over the land. Is that right?

J.T. There is something in that, but it does not come up to what is suggested in Isaac. He was a man of leisure; he was doing nothing in the way of toil as far as we see. He is seen in Genesis 24 as coming from the well Lahai-roi, coming to it and going from it, but there is no toil suggested. Then he is meditating in the field, and he lifts up his eyes and he sees the camels, not Rebecca, but the power by which Rebecca is carried; it does not say he sees Rebecca, but he sees the camels. The difference between Joseph and Isaac is quite manifested.

P.H.H. You mean the type of the assembly in Asnath is more limited?

J.T. It is more limited than what is suggested in Rebecca.

Rem. So that with Joseph this great thought of the dispensation or administration seems to be what is mainly occupying his mind. He just snatches an hour at noon to spend with his brethren. He is over this great administration for God.

J.T. That is the thing to see. It is not the time of leisure for us, it is the time of toil, redeeming the time, making the best of it.

E.C.M. Is that seen in the Lord Himself in John 4? The Lord is there toiling when the disciples had gone away to buy food. His answer to them is

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"My food is that I should do the will of him that has sent me, and that I should finish his work. Do not ye say, that there are yet four months and the harvest comes"? John 4:34,35. Would the Lord be seen toiling there in John 4 in view of the woman being secured? He speaks of finishing the work.

J.T. Just so. There was work to do that they knew not of. Colossians is the time of being hidden, not of making a show at all. "Your life is hid with the Christ in God"; Colossians 3:3; but still life is there, and so the work of the Spirit is in view in the epistle, as has already been remarked, it is the effect of the Spirit's work, not exactly the Spirit actually working, but the effect of it in us. The work of God is proceeding and with no particular show attaching to it, because our life is hid with Christ in God. Yet the work is going on and that is the great thing to keep in mind and to be encouraged when we see it.

F.W. In Malachi 1:1, it reads, "For from the rising of the sun even unto its setting my name shall be great among the nations; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure oblation: for my name shall be great among the nations, saith Jehovah of hosts". Do you think with the light of that in his soul the apostle would be encouraged to toil on?

J.T. Well, it is the time of the fulness of the nations, if we think of the spiritual side. While not ignoring what may come in in the millennium, which is now imminent, when the nations will be brought into blessing, there is what is present of the fulness of the nations through Paul's work, and the results seen in the assembly. So that we are toiling in view of results, and God would encourage us in what results appear, not simply a number of persons brought into blessing, but the increase in growth in the saints.

J.G.W. In the beginning of Paul's history as he came under heaven's influence he had the word "rise up and enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do". Acts 9:6. Would that have a bearing on what you are suggesting?

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J.T. Quite so. Like Joseph he had to work as a journeyman. He was to be told what he must do; he was not simply commissioned as an apostle, but told what to do by persons who were not distinctive. They are the kind of persons whom God would use, and Paul had to learn from them. We are all to be learners from each other, and even from persons who may be inferior to ourselves. So Joseph had a hard time of it in the beginning. He was a man of toil, a man of sorrow and he said, "God has made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house", Genesis 41:51, showing that God took account of all that he had to endure.

F.G.H. Would you say a word as to what the apostle speaks of here; presenting every man perfect in Christ? What is in view exactly in that?

J.T. It was the work that he undertook. Paul was prepared not simply to have good meetings and the like, big meetings it may be, but for what results from these; his thought was to present every man perfect in Christ. "Whom we announce, admonishing every man, and teaching every man, in all wisdom, to the end that we may present every man perfect in Christ". Colossians 1:28. The Lord had taken him up having all this in view; he was an elect vessel unto Him, and would go to the full length in everything that was required, and hence he tells us in the second letter to Corinth, what he endured, what lie experienced in carrying out the thing that he had in mind. He said he had espoused the Corinthians as a chaste virgin to Christ, 2 Corinthians 11. He had a measure that in his mind would reach to Spain, and he certainly had a measure that reached to Rome.

A.H. How wide are you carrying this thought of labour, as wide as the apostle makes it in Acts 20? He speaks there of his admonishing, his teaching, and he also refers to these hands.

J.T. Just so. The others did not do that. The other apostles did not go to the length that he went to.

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"These hands have ministered to my wants, and to those who were with me". Acts 20:34. He would do anything needed; he would gather a bundle of sticks to make a fire, he would do anything that was needed. The twelve said that they would devote themselves to the word of God and prayer and they placed others in charge of tables, which may be right, but at the same time Paul did not seek to avoid the work of a deacon. He would do anything that was needed. I think that is the thing to see. We have to be ready to do anything that is needed for the promotion of the service of God and the growth of the saints.

G. Would chapter 4:17 emphasise what you are saying? It reads, "and say to Archippus, Take heed to the ministry which thou hast received in the Lord, to the end that thou fulfil it". Colossians 4:17.

J.T. That is very appropriate as belonging to Colossians. Even Timotheus himself needed a similar word, as in 2 Timothy 1:6. There was a certain hesitancy about him, and Paul enjoined him to rekindle the gift that he had; and that is a word for us all. It is a question not only of getting the mind of God in the Scriptures, but of applying it, and seeing the effect of the application of it in carrying out the work of God, because the end would be "What hath God wrought". Numbers 23:23. God is working through us now. Christ is not here, but the Spirit is and the work is carried on by us.

J.G.W. He speaks of completing the word of God. Is that part of his work?

J.T. See the number of services he had. He had the ministry of reconciliation, the ministry of the assembly, the ministry of the gospel, and to complete the word of God. Not simply that he would preach a good sermon, as he would, but complete the word of God. What exercise that must have meant.

Rem. The Lord's word in Mark 10:43 - 45, says, "whosoever would be great among you, shall be your minister; and whosoever would be first of you shall be bondman of

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all. For also the Son of man did not come to be ministered to, but to minister, and give his life a ransom for many".

J.T. That would bear on it, and then negatively, how John Mark we are told "departed", "and went not with them to the work", Acts 15:38. How many have done that and so the gospel of Mark would be the gospel to support what we are speaking about.

C.H. Are these subjective results, that you are speaking of, suggested in our last scripture where it says that "Joseph saw Benjamin" Genesis 43:16, and then he gave instruction to bring in his brethren. He recognised in Benjamin what came from the same source as himself, the same mother.

J.T. He was the one who was added. God will add to me another son, Rachel said. The whole family of Jacob was complete; the twelve tribes. The idea of twelve is administration, but Joseph was the eleventh son, and therefore the family was not complete in him, but it was completed in Benjamin; so that one can understand how his heart would be affected by seeing Benjamin. Benjamin is the son of his father's right hand. So that the work is to go on. The gospel of Mark is on that principle, the right hand; Christ set down at the right hand of God. Mark presents that fact to us. It is a question of administration. It is a question of a man being able to sit down and think out things and know what to do; and that is what the Lord is engaged in. He is the Son of His Father's right hand.

P.H.H. Apart from the special work which Mark had, or Paul, or others, we read in Mark's gospel that the man, having left his house, gave "to his bondmen the authority, and to each one his work", Mark 13:34. Would that fit in with the dispensation?

J.T. Very good. The Lord takes the place there in that very passage of not having any leisure, because it is question of workmanship and overseership, to every man his work, and of watching too. He says,

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"what I say to you, I say to all, Watch". Mark 13:37. So Mark, according to the facts, would bring out how unsuccessful the twelve were as the Lord rose from the dead. Chapter 16 brings out a state of confusion even in the women, for they said nothing to anyone, and the eleven were unbelieving, and so the Lord is saying throughout that chapter, that it is a question of faith, of believing or disbelieving, and the disciples were disbelieving, and so the Lord upbraids them for their unbelief even after Mary Magdalene had brought her report. The Lord Himself regards the whole position as if the result as regards them is to be a failure. So the Lord takes the matter in hand Himself and that is what He has done in our own times. Mark would say the official class has failed, faith is not there, and the Lord takes the matter on Himself and appears to Mary Magdalene out of whom He had cast seven demons. That was His work and He has had to do that in our own time. He sends Mary Magdalene and she comes and tells the apostles that she had seen the Lord, but they did not believe her, and then He found them and upbraided them with their unbelief. They did not believe, but after all this happens the Lord sends them out to preach. How marvellous that He should send them out to preach with such a record, but it shows that, at the bottom, the work of God existed, and we get results on the lines that He lays down; that is to say, that the work of God is there. It is not now an apostolic condition, but at the same time the work of God exists, and we can count on results, and so the word is, "He that believes and is baptised shall be saved". Mark 16:16. Not that he should be baptised but that he is baptised. The Lord proceeds on these lines and sends the apostles out to preach, telling them that one who believes and is baptised shall be saved, and then He tells them what shall result in them as having faith and how He would be with them; "the Lord working with them, and confirming the word by the signs following upon it". Mark 16:20. Like the One who went up and sat at the right hand of

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God, the disciples now went everywhere preaching. There was real power in their service; because the idea in Mark is that by this means the work of God exists. It may be covered over by much, but as soon as the service is proceeded with, you get results. The thing, however, is not to sit down, but to go everywhere and to preach and the Lord would be with us, the signs following.

Ques. Have you in mind in bringing these things before us that we should be fully occupied while He is coming? I was connecting what you are saying with your last visit to this town -- What is your occupation?

J.T. That is it; we are to be fully occupied, not be men of leisure. We cannot afford to give up our work. We need to be doing something, there is plenty to do, and the thing is, What our hand finds to do, do it with our might. That is what Mark would produce in us.

Ques. Do you think that whatever benefits the Egyptians received as a result of Joseph's administrative working, what particularly was in mind was Joseph's brethren?

J.T. That is what is in the mind of God, as we have said as to the family. Joseph was the eleventh son born and Rachel said that the Lord would add another son. He became the son of her sorrow, but the son of his father's right hand. The work grows and the power comes to carry on with the work. Here Paul's thought was to complete the word of God. How great a thing that is!

W. Paul commends the Thessalonians for their work of faith and labour of love, and patience of hope of our Lord Jesus Christ. Would they be an example for us today?

J.T. That truth is in every chapter of the first epistle and that is a word for us; to love His appearing; to lay hold of the promises that attach to His appearing and use them; cause them to be elements of strength in our souls; lay hold of the promises.

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F.G.H. Referring to Mark once again it is recorded of the Lord Jesus that "He does all things well". Mark 7:37. Would that bring in the thought of quality in the work?

J.T. I think that is good. It refers at that particular point to a man who could not speak right; that is an important matter, that the Lord causes him to speak right. That is where it is said that "He does all things well; he makes both the deaf to hear, and the speechless to speak". Mark 7:37. These things are all needed for the work, the point is to carry on the work.

P.H.H. Would the enjoyment of sonship help us to continue in this? I was thinking of it as having permeated the history of Joseph and the great matter of sonship as given to us by Paul. Would the enjoyment of this relationship help us in the continuance and dignity of the work?

J.T. I would say that, especially in the light of what is said in Philippians which is an epistle full of enjoyment. "Rejoice in the Lord always: again I will say, Rejoice". Philippians 4:4. We are very poor in the way of enjoyment, in the amount of joy that we have. We read often about the Lord's joy and of Paul's joy. It is a question of proceeding definitely with an end in view, with results in view that are essential to the accomplishment of the purposes of God, that what we have must synchronise with the purposes of God.

F.W.K. Would the apostle's reference to fellow-bondmen and fellow-labourers help where the thought of co-operation in the service is suggested?

J.T. Very good. There is not so much of that now, of our brethren moving out together and accomplishing results, as there was years ago. I think the work is going on steadier now than then. Certain things were accomplished then in the way of converts, but what is going on now has another world in mind, "that world and the resurrection", Luke 20:35, and every man to be presented "perfect in Christ". Colossians 1:28. It is not to be a world of defectives or undergrowths, but of full growth and sonship. The ministry

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is in view of that; "until we all arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ; in order that we may be no longer babes", Ephesians 4:13,14. The babe stage must finish and we must get on to manhood.

J.G.W. How would you differentiate between the activities that are in christendom and the work that you are pressing us to be engaged in?

J.T. The mind of God is that we should work according to the pattern. It does not appear in the creation, but in the moral system the great thought is pattern; Moses was shown a pattern. David did things by the Spirit, but Moses was shown the pattern of what was to be made. We are not to be toiling to no purpose, but to work, even in a public sense as having the pattern before us, and the kind of materials. Then to reach the end, the word of God unfolding what is in God's mind.

W.J. Joseph's name is The Revealer of Secrets; the apostle came into the good of it, when he was discouraged at Corinth. The Lord said to him, "I have much people in this city". Acts 18:10. He revealed the secret of His mind to him.

J.T. That is a good point; for it was a special time in the history of Paul. He had been to Thessalonica and had opened out the testimony of Christ, showing what was in mind, and then he proceeded to Athens. Corinth was undoubtedly in mind. He went to Athens and they say, "What would this chatterer say"? Acts 17:18. That is what they thought, and he prefers just to say a word about the creation and what is visible and what anyone can see. Then he goes to Corinth and he has to wait for Timotheus and Silvanus and while waiting he reasons with Jews and Greeks. When they come he is pressed in respect of he word and later the Lord appears to him saying, "Fear not, but speak", "because I am with thee". Acts 18:9,10. The Lord was with him to support and to protect him, saying to him, "I have much people in this city". Acts 18:10. I think

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that is the idea. The question now is to have the mind of God and to apply it to that material, and the epistles to Corinth are to show how Paul laboured to bring material round to the mind of God. It is not to be so many persons, as at Antioch, Acts 11; but he and Barnabas, we are told, taught for a whole year in the assembly and so a great crowd of material was added. Their work was assembly work; they worked for a year at it, and the result was that the pattern was carried out; the divine idea was there, and hence it is said that the disciples were first called christians at Antioch; they were full-grown men. The divine ideal was there, not simply in so many persons, but in an assembly setting. That is the point to get hold of, and to be working on this point like Paul and Apollos. Paul planted and Apollos watered and God gave the increase; it is a question of work. If the work of any man be burnt up; notice it is work, well, there is nothing left but himself; that is, he is saved, but as by fire.

J.C.T. What have you in mind regarding Genesis 41:48? Joseph gathered the food and stored it in the cities. Does it suggest that the great wealth that is available is to be seen in an administrative setting in our local gatherings?

J.T. That is, in the cities. The cities were to be used, and the environment of the cities. The results of the work would be stored up and there would be nothing lost. The idea presented in Joseph is successful and industrious working and the result could not even be reckoned, the amount of corn that was available was so great. What a word today for the world in the shortage of corn! What the true Joseph would do at the present time and what will be seen in those who follow Him in a spiritual way, the end synchronising with the work of God.

P.D. Would you say that what you had before you as to toiling and the divine pattern, is seen in the last two verses of Matthew's gospel? There we have the idea of

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making of disciples, which involves toiling, the pattern being seen in the twelve. Then the disciples are baptised into the divine economy and taught to observe all things that the Lord had said.

J.T. Making disciples raises a very interesting question; that is, the idea of sowing a seed, of sowing persons as seed. The Son of man sows persons, good seed; the sons of the kingdom; Matthew 13:38. What you say raises this question as to what there is, what kind of persons are sown m different parts by the Lord; they are those who look after His interests. The Lord said to the twelve, "Have ye understood all these things? They say to Him, Yea, Lord". Matthew 13:51. He does not question that. It shows that they were learning from what He was saying, and then the Lord says, "For this reason every scribe discipled to the kingdom of the heavens is like a man that is a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old". Matthew 13:52. That is to say, the New Testament first and the Old second, but the scribe discipled to the kingdom of heaven is like a householder, an industrious man, who cares for things and makes good use of them. The sons of the kingdom are sown by the Lord. He places them throughout the whole area of the testimony; they are reliable and to be called upon to look after His interests at any time. They are sons of the kingdom and they are sown under the Lord's hand at any time and for any purpose that He requires.

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LIFE IN THE SERVICE OF GOD

Acts 1:1 - 4; Acts 13:46 - 48; Acts 20:4 - 12

J.T. Luke, the writer of this book, refers back to the Lord's coming to His own after He rose, and says, "to whom also he presented himself living". Acts 1:3 The word is presented Himself. The word presented is not found in the records of the appearings of the Lord as given in the gospels. There is the thought in it of the Lord having in mind that He should be seen in a certain way by them, and seen alive, or living, as if the Lord would indicate something as to life in some form or attitude, that would impress the saints and enter into the service of God in which He has part, the Lord's supper being the centre of it. We have to compare this with what has been read in chapter 13, as to eternal life and the reference to life in a physical sense in Eutychus, evidently pointing to life in a moral sense as entering into the celebration of the Lord's supper. Another thing to be noted is the word assembled, used twice in this chapter. It is not the usual word for assembly, but still it carries the same thought, and refers to what is requisite or customary, certainly requisite for the Lord's supper.

Life, as indicated in chapter 13, would be eternal life in the ordinary sense running on to the millennium, but it would also involve what is now known in the Spirit whilst we are here in flesh and blood. And then, the state Eutychus was in, would be a flesh and blood state, although he was resuscitated or raised. It is said that he "was taken up dead", Acts 20:9, as if death had actually happened, and yet Paul says, "Be not troubled, for his life is in him". Acts 20:10. Life in a boy is a thought that needs to be kept in mind as to life, entering into the provisional circumstances at the present time. We shall see that life, in these senses, should have a prominent place in the service of

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God, not that we should simply be satisfied with the physical position and our moving together, but to have the evidence of life with us, life by the Spirit, giving buoyancy and freshness and attractiveness to the services.

J.P.H. Does what you have said connect on with Matthew 16:16? "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God". Is that basic for everything connected with the assembly?

J.T. I would say that, and especially in view of Judaism. Matthew has in mind the gradual, though not immediate, disappearance of Judaism, and hence the thought of the living God, the Son of the living God. It is a living system, instead of a dead system as m Judaism.

J.P.H. I was thinking too of Revelation 3:1, the word to Sardis, "I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead". Are you encouraging living conditions and life in the assembly in contrast to all that is around?

J.T. Just so; "thou", "art dead". Revelation 3:1. It confirms what has been remarked as to Judaism. The present situation of the profession of christianity is similar to Judaism, as the book of the Acts contemplates, and is finally confirmed in the letter to the Hebrews by Paul; hence the presentation of the Lord Himself living is, as already said, suggestive and points to a living order of things in our meetings and services.

Ques. Do you mean that life is apprehended first in a Man out of death?

J.T. Well, that is the idea in mind, but death would be implied. Life in the millennium will evidently be on earth in men, in flesh and blood; only, Satan being bound, sin will be weakened, but still it is there, and the Spirit of God is there too in some sense, maintaining such conditions as are illustrated in Numbers 29 in the feast of tabernacles, where there is steady decrease, but not below what might be called the proper level for life,

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because the number seven Is retained; seven bullocks; verse 32.

I was going to remark that the book of Acts contemplates the gradual disappearance of Judaism, and hence we may say, the gradual but sure disappearance of christendom as it is. So that, before the final adjustment by the introduction of Paul and Barnabas, especially of Paul himself, the state of christendom as corresponding with Judaism is indicated in the death of Herod, who arose, according to chapter 12, and slew James with the sword and endeavoured to slay Peter, but he was eaten with worms. It was a terrible comment and judgment too on the system of Judaism at that time, but the work of God went on, and liberty was afforded to Paul and Barnabas, particularly Paul, the Spirit taking him on, after Barnabas left him, so as to carry out the divine thoughts in christianity. I suppose we may reckon that God will intervene in some way if things become worse, and if any attack is made on the general position of christianity, He will weaken the efforts of the enemy; hindering it, but weakening it, so that the service of God may continue. The second treatise of Luke is intended to lead into christianity proper, though to some extent still recognising Judaism, which gradually disappears. The thought was that we might see how primarily life such as we have spoken of attaches to the service of God.

L.P.M. "The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I this day", Isaiah 38:19.

J.T. Very good; that links with what has been said about Peter's confession of "the Son of the living God". Matthew 16:16. Peter is not used afterwards much as to life, because it was intended that Paul should take it on, and take it on in sonship. Peter hardly ever refers to the Son of God except in the second chapter of his second epistle. The way was being cleared for Paul, and I think that is what we need to enter into a little, and to see that his appearance involved a revival, not such as we get in 2 Timothy, but

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what was needed in view of the tendency to waning in the general profession. Paul took up the thought of life in the Son, and John subsequently took it up because it is necessary to maintain it right through to the end.

A.M. Is there a relationship between life and suffering? I am thinking of the moral fibre needed in view of things going through. We see this in Peter and in Paul and John, in view of the testimony going through to the end in life.

J.T. You mean the moral fibre seen in life? Well, just so, that was what I was thinking both as to eternal life in chapter 13, and then in Eutychus in chapter 20. Because Eutychus is going through, a living boy, but it was in flesh and blood condition; he was alive and a comfort to the brethren. Surely therefore the moral side must enter into it. How much endurance there is with the brethren, how much the acacia wood is with us; that is to say, endurance in suffering!

W.J.T. Was not that seen delightfully in the Thessalonians? They had been going through suffering and were a great comfort to the apostle. They "turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God". 1 Thessalonians 1:9. It involves the public reproach, they were going through it, and comforting the servants and others.

J.T. I should think that is very encouraging to look into, although these remarks, as they come, cannot be pursued in each case, because the idea of these meetings, is to take on whatever comes out that will help peculiarly at the moment. The disciples contemplated His glory, we are told, showing that the Lord was not only to be spoken of, but to be contemplated. We cannot depend altogether on what is said, but we may rely too on what is contemplated, what we are able to take on, as we are lying fallow and taking on the truth, so that it gives character to us. We are to keep our sabbaths.

L.R. Would that link with "looking on the glory of the Lord"? 2 Corinthians 3:18. We are changed from glory to glory.

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J.T. Just so. The glory changes us, glory to glory. That is a phrase that belongs to christianity; it belongs to the Lord's supper too.

Ques. I should like to ask, as to presenting Himself living, is it that we may get a living and fresh impression in the assembly?

J.T. Well, that is intended. The Lord clearly thought of the matter, as to how He should be seen by them. We know from this chapter, as we link it on with 1 Corinthians 15, that He appeared to several on several occasions. He appeared living; He appeared risen; He appeared from heaven too, and all to affect the conditions down here in connection with the service of God, because the first one to whom He appeared was Simon, and he is called Cephas, as if the assembly was in mind, and that the assembly is impressionable. Cephas was material for the assembly.

R.G.B. Is the introduction of Melchisedec in Hebrews significant? It says, "Thou art a priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedec" Hebrews 5:6, and later "the witness is that he lives" Hebrews 7:8.

J.T. Very good. "Of whom the witness is that he lives"; Hebrews 7:8; so that Hebrews would have that in mind.

E.A.K. Would the reference to the "many proofs", Acts 1:3, be to stabilise our souls in the knowledge of Christ, not only as risen but living, and living before our affections.

J.T. Just so. Many proofs would be important, as conveying the idea of intensification of testimony.

L.P.M. Is a similar thought to be found in 1 Corinthians 15, the number of references to the appearings?

J.T. Just so, to show the variety of life. It is first to Cephas and then to the twelve, meaning that Matthias, the one needed to complete the twelve, was there; the Lord immediately recognised what was there. Acts 1 implies that the matter was not finished, so to speak, when the Lord went up to heaven; there was something to be added, hence the second treatise. Cephas being

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the first mentioned would point to the assembly, as if the Lord would intimate that He is now working on to that line; Cephas means a stone. In John 1 it has already been noted, the Lord said to him, "thou shalt be called Cephas". John 1:42. Following Cephas the Lord appeared to the twelve, showing that their judgment and their selection of the two nominees for the apostleship were generally right. One only could be selected and that was decided on the principle of the lot, which God recognised and used, and so Matthias was selected. Hence the second appearing is to the twelve, without the word apostles being mentioned, and then it is to above 500 brethren at once, and then to James, and then to all the apostles; this latter would be related to the authoritative side of the apostles' position and service. Finally he appeared to Paul himself. There is variety in what is presented, in the sense of life; and the assembly should move on in the variety of life.

Ques. Would you expect a fresh presentation each time we partake of the Supper?

J.T. Well, I think that is the idea. The tendency is, as you know, to staleness, and the recurrence of the incoming of the Lord at the Lord's supper would promote and maintain freshness.

H.P.W. Do you think that the Lord, speaking reverently, would present Himself to us now just as far as we can bear. The Lord says that He had much to say to them, but they were not able to bear it. Do you think, that if we lived in closer touch with the Lord, we should be able to bear more of these living impressions even now?

J.T. Yes, that is very good, and would you not say that the increase of these meetings, these special fellowship meetings, is an evidence of the increase of life? Would you not say that this is the very thought in mind? These meetings are an evidence that the Lord is helping us in this living sense.

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S.J.L. He was present among them, as risen from the dead, for forty days.

J.T. Well, that is in keeping with what we are saying. "Forty" is used in scripture in the sense of a complete period of testing something. This reference is quite in keeping; "to whom also he presented himself living, after he had suffered, with many proofs; being seen by them during forty days, and speaking of the things which concern the kingdom of God"; Acts 1:3. So that the forty days, somewhat less than seven weeks, would point to the Lord's consideration of the whole position, giving the opportunity for the completion of what was incomplete when He arose, because Matthew, and Mark particularly, stress the fact that the saints were in a very poor way when the Lord rose and appeared to them at first. The Lord knew what was there; He knew what He had effected, and the sequel showed that the unbelief was just superficial. The Lord knew that the real thing was there in every one of them, and He allowed time to bring that out, what He had effected Himself, making due allowance for recovery with all, before the Holy Spirit was sent down. I believe it is a matter of great importance, the Lord's consideration for what He has effected in His own before the Holy Spirit came down, and Acts 1, particularly from the 15th verse, is to bring out what was there. "Peter, standing up in the midst of the brethren, said", Acts 1:15, And then we are told that the crowd of names was about one hundred and twenty; the names meaning there was life in them. Then what Peter says is to be noted. "It is necessary therefore, that of the men who have assembled with us all the time in which the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day in which he was taken up from us, one of these should be a witness with us of his resurrection". Acts 1:21,22. It will be seen that Peter is very far advanced on what he was when presented to us first after the Lord rose; and the Lord intended that it should be

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so. The Lord knew what was in him and in all of them; the Lord knew the depth of what He had wrought Himself, and the forty days were to bring that out, so that we have a complete number in the final words. "And they appointed two, Joseph, who was called Barsabas, who had been surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed, and said, Thou Lord, knower of the hearts of all, show which one of these two thou hast chosen, to receive the lot of this service and apostleship, from which Judas transgressing fell to go to his own place. And they gave lots on them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles". Acts 1:23 - 26. So that the position is finished, and then the Holy Spirit comes down. He is the power for everything in christianity, and His presence here implies the completion of the position. This book is to bring it out, in its continuous variety, until it eclipses Judaism and all else.

E.C.T. Do you think, going through Acts, that as the reproach increases, living conditions increase?

J.T. Well, I think that is good. Chapter 12 brings that out, how, although there was some decline in the house of Mary, the mother of John Mark, yet Peter was equal to the position, and it shows that the service of God was to go on. He knew what to do. When the final barricade was removed he knew what to do. He entered into one street, but he knew what to do, and James too knew what to do; they both knew what to do. So that in these cases it is a question of knowing what to do.

R.H. Did you say that Eutychus represented moral life?

J.T. Well, life in a moral sense. It is a question of what we are, what a young man like Eutychus would need, to fill out the position. Evidently there was something in him. That leads us to consider what the living boy is, what the young people are just now, those who are breaking bread, how much life there is in them.

Ques. Would the presentation of Himself living be for

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contemplation with a view to carrying on the service of God?

J.T. To carry on the service of God. I would say that, rather than being caught up to glory, because the Lord is not in any hurry on that line yet. It is a question of what He is having down here, and it is a question therefore of this young man and what he can be, and what we get about him is that he was a comfort to the brethren. They took him away; he was worth carrying away.

Ques. You mean that being a young boy shows it was a continuation of matters?

J.T. That is the idea. At the Lord's coming the idea of our translation is of men, not of children. In the ark with Noah there were no children. I mean that things are to be finished; it is a question of full manhood. When we are in the course of finishing, then the thing is to see what is there and what may be developed through the principles that God affords to us, the Spirit of God being with us to help us.

L.P.M. Light and divine order -- are they closely linked in a normal sense?

J.T. I think so. I think God would have light visible; even in the natural creation we can see the foliage and all that is so beautiful under the eye of God. Being the Creator of it, you would expect that from Him, rather than the bare fact of creation.

Ques. Why do you remark on the fact that we are given the young man's name?

J.T. Well, I think he may have come to something; then it would be well that his name should be known, because the idea of name is stressed in the first chapter -- 120 names.

Rem. Well, I think that is very encouraging. The testimony involves that, the continuation of the service of God, and that in the saints which can be named.

J.T. Quite so. And the fathers of persons who might be distinguished, the father of Alexander and Rufus, for

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instance. He was the one that was selected to carry the Lord's cross, but he was the father of two, and their names are given to us, which would indicate that they became distinguished in the Lord's service, because the Lord has great pleasure in bringing out what He is doing, what He is effecting, in the variety.

Ques. You mean that the incident that should stand in our minds is not so much the fall as the potential material that came to light through Paul's embrace?

J.T. Just so. Just as Peter's own case. We might talk about his blunders, but look at the product. He is "first Peter" all the time. It ought to encourage all young people as to the possibilities, the possibilities seen in Eutychus and the examples all round. The environment is full of potentialities for the minds of the youth. Eutychus was there, but it says, "there were many lights in the upper room". Acts 20:8. The seven men mentioned earlier in the chapter were lights in a spiritual sense; they were the products of Paul's own work. There are the possibilities of the present ministry; what it can produce, and, of course, it should aim to produce something. We are not told what Paul was saying, but we may be sure that he was saying something that was good and needful, even for Eutychus, and the elder brethren as well.

T.H. You were saying there was great need for doing what was right. Does not Paul shine here in what he does in regard to Eutychus, going down -- descending?

J.T. Yes. I think it is a beautiful picture, and I would say it is a picture prophetical of the whole assembly, and it is encouraging, because of the assembly running on to the end, and the continuance of the boy, one resuscitated like this through the affections of Paul.

L.P.M. Is there any significance in his being referred to, and the only one of the seven, as a son, the "son of Pyrrhus"? Acts 20:4.

J.T. Well, it is in keeping with what we have been

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saying -- how fathers may be distinguished by their sons. No true father will resent that.

J.C. Would this embrace by Paul give the moral and spiritual stamina that is needed? It says, "And they brought away the boy alive, and were no little comforted". Acts 20:12.

J.T. Very good. "Paul descending fell upon him, and enfolding him in his arms, said, Be not troubled, for his life is in him", "And they brought away the boy alive"; Acts 20:10,12; that is, in resuscitated life, resulting from the embrace of Paul, all pointing to so much that is encouraging.

Ques. Is there any point in the fact that the literal word for "life" is "soul"? Do you think we are too apt to judge by appearances with young people, whereas Paul would count on the work of God inwardly and we should keep our eye on that?

J.T. That is right. I rather think it is a creditable comment. There is but little soul generally today, and I think the soul here is something to be noted. There is a similar suggestion in 1 Kings 17 in reference to the boy in the house of the woman of Zarephath. He fell sick and died, and Elijah prayed for him and asked that his soul should return to him, and it did. I think that woman would be greatly enlarged by these happenings. Eutychus was "sitting at the window-opening" Acts 20:9. This is not like Daniel's window. Daniel's window was opened towards Jerusalem. This opening would be towards the world, I would think. Eutychus would be looking out at something that was happening, and he fell asleep. Daniel's window was always open, apparently, towards heaven. That was his outlook. So Paul, when he was released from Damascus was let down out through a window in a basket. The window would be an outlook. He would have an outlook there. He escaped from the king, and was delivered. Paul was a young man at that time.

And now as to the Lord's supper in Acts 20; a great

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deal has been said about it, and now we are still talking about it, and questioning about it. It seems to me that the Berean spirit is needed, to see what scripture says about it, and what the last word is about it; that is, what Paul says about it.

Ques. Is there a suggestion in Paul "having long spoken until daybreak"? Acts 20:11. Do you think we should look for adjusting and helpful ministry in relation to the Supper right until the time when the Lord comes again?

J.T. Well, I think that is good. I would say that although we have no record of what Paul said at this time, the Spirit of God has carried all through and it has come out from time to time, and is coming out yet, because it is a prophetic matter. The long period is to be noted, and though what was said is not mentioned it surely means that there is a record of it, because Paul's words would not fall to the ground, any more than Samuel's did. The discourse does not fall to the ground in the sense of losing it, and the saints want it and value it, or if they do not now they will presently, they will need it and it will come out.

Rem. Whilst what Paul has said is set down authoritatively in the Scriptures, it is capable in teaching of expansion and development.

J.T. Well, is that not what is meant by the change of word, the first is discourse in verse 7 and then it says in verse 11 "having gone up, and having broken the bread, and eaten, and having long spoken"? Acts 20:11. The word translated spoken means conversed or communed. That would be our Bible readings, I would think. They have been greatly valued, from the outset of this present revival. The change of word there would show how ministry in right hands will bring about what is needed. "Having broken the bread, and eaten", Acts 20:11, means that the Supper was actually partaken of, although it was delayed. I suppose it was delayed because things were not right. "Having long spoken until daybreak, so he went away. And they brought away the boy alive". Acts 20:11.

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So that things could be left in the Lord's hands.

A.M. Have you anything in mind as to "the first day of the week"? Acts 20:7. It is not "the Lord's Day". Revelation 1:10.

J.T. It is a day that is mentioned twice in John 20. It is a new beginning, a new order of things. The Lord's supper and all that enters into it involves what is new.

Ques. Has the first day of the week a bearing on what is eternal, and the service of God; and the Lord's Day has its bearing on the testimony?

J.T. I would say that too. The "first day of the week" Acts 20:7, runs on to eternity; there is no stop, because it is a question of love; that is capable of going through.

E.C.T. If we listen to the ministry we shall not need an adjusting word at the breaking of bread, shall we?

J.T. Quite so. It has been before me that the imprisonments of Paul were intended to fit him for the final touches. Looking at Isaac as a type of Christ viewed as the bridegroom, we see that he had time to meditate, he had plenty of leisure, and so when a man married, according to the types, he had a year off, so that he is fitted for the household. I think what is needed at the present juncture is brethren able to take time off to look into Scripture, and weigh things. The lack of time for this is apt to hinder us in the services, in the ministry, because time is not given to meditation.

A.C.S.P. When Dorcas had died, Peter's service results in her being presented living.

J.T. That is good. Showing that Peter was set up afresh. I should say there was a revival in him too, for the advent of Paul resulted in a general revival of things; so that you get Peter more active in that particular case than you find him elsewhere. He went through all quarters, we are told, which is remarkable, showing that it was what God was bringing in; it was forecasting itself. At the same time Peter had time to go up to the housetop, and pray, and enter into ecstasy. It is remarkable, as

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indicating the triumph of spiritual power. The Lord would accord to us spiritual power, if we were ready for it.

Ques. Is the thought that we should be led from the physical to the spiritual?

J.T. Well, that is what I thought. Dorcas became a spiritual woman, as we see in the end of Acts 9:40. "But Peter, putting them all out" (whoever they were, they were of no value spiritually) "and kneeling down, prayed. And, turning to the body, he said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes, and, seeing Peter, sat up". We may well connect all this with Eutychus; it is now a woman. "And, seeing Peter, sat up. And having given her his hand, he raised her up, and having called the saints and the widows, presented her living", Acts 9:40,41. It is the same expression as you have of the Lord Himself, in chapter 1. "And it became known throughout the whole of Joppa, and many believed on the Lord", Acts 9:42. A great result, in such a crisis as this.

Ques. Would persons who are living have something that the Lord could call upon, like the little lad in the gospels who had the loaves and fishes, which the Lord could call upon to feed the thousands? The Lord uses what He has.

J.T. You have a little boy here, he only knew that much. That is very good, I think.

Ques. Peter says before this to Aeneas "Jesus the Christ heals thee: rise up and make thy couch for thyself". Acts 9:34. Would that suggest the grace that would mark us in view of recovery?

J.T. Well, that is the thing. This is a remarkable illustration of the service of Peter as passing through all quarters. Peter's word to Aeneas, "make thy couch for thyself", Acts 9:34, was effective. "And straightway he rose up". That brings in the principle of local responsibility. Showing how, instead of writing long distances to get light or information about the things of God we should be concerned to get it locally. Aeneas was to rise up and

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make his couch for himself; that is, it is the local people who should be doing things. "And all who inhabited Lydda", "saw him", Acts 9:35, and they "turned to the Lord". It was a remarkable time. And then we have this female disciple, named Tabitha, and then, "it came to pass that he", (Peter) "remained many days in Joppa with a certain Simon, a tanner". Acts 9:43. Following that in chapter 10 we have the account of Cornelius, and the gentiles coming in. Peter is all ready for them. He has the keys of the kingdom, and he is acting now as one worthy of the Lord's confidence in committing to him the keys of the kingdom.

Rem. There is no possibility of the maintenance of the testimony locally unless that is in evidence.

J.T. Do things for ourselves, you mean? "Rise up, and make thy couch for thyself". Acts 9:34. The local brethren are to do things for themselves, not to expect the visiting brother to do everything. Not, of course, that the visiting brother should not come; he should, as Peter did, but make thy bed for thyself. Things are to be done that need to be done.

D.J.M. The word to Philadelphia is "thou hast a little power". Revelation 3:8. Is that what is in mind?

J.T. That is the idea, exactly; "thou hast a little power". Revelation 3:8.

R.G.B. The service is carried on in Revelation around the throne; the elders are there and then the living creatures. Would it show intelligence as linked with life in the service of God?

J.T. That is good. The elders move as they see what the living creatures do. In Revelation 4:9,10 we read, "And when the living creatures shall give glory and honour and thanksgiving to him that sits upon the throne, who lives to the ages of ages, the twenty-four elders shall fall before him that sits upon the throne, and do homage to him that lives to the ages of ages". You have something else in mind?

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R.G.B. The living creatures are linked with the elders. The elders setting forth intelligence, and the living creatures being suggestive of life that is to be innate in the service of God if it is to be rightly carried on.

J.T. That is right. When the living creatures do certain things, then the elders "fall before him that sits upon the throne, and do homage to him that lives to the ages of ages; and shall cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honour and power; for thou hast created all things, and for thy will they were, and they have been created". Revelation 4:10,11. The elders carry on the service and worship fully, which I think might be applied to the elder brethren moving Godward as they observe the younger men taking things up that need to be done, because the living creatures refer to the creation, and the idea of life must be there.

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THOSE WHO RECEIVE THE SPIRIT

Romans 7:22 - 25; Romans 8:1 - 9; 2 Kings 4:1 - 7

J.T. The object in mind in these proposals is to bring out the truth of the Spirit, as the Lord may help us, and to indicate who is to receive Him. It is thought that Romans 7 is intended to identify those who are to receive the Spirit, and so the passage in 2 Kings is read, because it is thought that the vessels to be filled represent believers; that they are to be identified, and the identification should be not simply a verbal confession of having received the Spirit, but some moral indications that the persons have come through the process indicated in Romans 7. It is the day of the Spirit, in that Jesus is glorified. The Holy Spirit is here to be received, but clearly the persons must be morally identifiable, and especially by themselves. So the reference at the end of Romans 7 is to one who can speak of himself as delighting in the law of God after the inward man; he speaks of the feelings of wretchedness, and of thanksgiving to God, as indicating relief inwardly. There is emphatic allusion to the person, myself; the person's own identification as coming through the process indicated in that chapter, so that chapter 8 comes in as meeting the position.

E.T.S. Does chapter 7 make the empty vessel?

J.T. Exactly. That is just what is in my mind. There must be something in the relief, as it comes into the person, which causes thanksgiving and then the resolve as to himself. "So then I myself with the mind serve God's law; but with the flesh sin's law". Romans 7:25. There is a great deal of uncertainty and darkness, as to the reception of the Spirit, and what marks His presence, but it seems as if there should be some indication as to persons who have not the Spirit, and what they have to reach in their souls to qualify them for the gift of the Spirit which is

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God's prerogative. It is not simply an automatic action of God, it is a prerogative, involving gift from God, involving love too.

H.J.S. The person receiving the Holy Spirit would be marked by thankfulness as against wretchedness.

J.T. Just so. A clear, cheerful countenance instead of a wretched one. It indicates what is proceeding inwardly; in "the inward man" Romans 7:22, as he is spoken of here.

C.G. "Making his face shine with oil". Psalm 104:15 Is that the visible, outward evidence of it, thus confirming what is inward?

J.T. Quite so; that fits in well. It is the dispensation of the Spirit. The Spirit of God says, in John 7:39, when Jesus was here on earth, that "the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified". The Lord would open up to us the truth as to the Holy Spirit, in view of the fact that it is the Spirit's day, it is His dispensation, in a way, and He characterises it, which would mean that He characterises what is here of God, making it suitable for heaven; that is to say, the translation of the saints to heaven, implies that the Spirit's work is done in this dispensation.

In the order of the truth, Romans 5 in an objective sense runs along with chapter 8 which is subjective, as we call it and finishes the matter. Chapter 5 is the objective side, in answer to the gospel. Chapter 8 contemplates what chapter 7 suggests to us, agreeing with what was said as to Abraham, "a horror, a great darkness, fell upon him". Genesis 15:12. He wanted to know how God would answer his exercises and the needs of his soul, because he had no son. God said that Eliezer of Damascus should not be his heir, and He directs Abraham to lift up his eyes to the heavens in order to understand what his seed would be, but then Abraham said, "how shall I know"? Genesis 15:8, and I think Romans 7 is to answer that question as to the blessing of God, how it is to be known, what His purposes are, what His promises are. Genesis 15, I believe, answers to what

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we are engaged with now, only that it is more precise and accurate in Romans, and so the identification, as has been remarked, of the person by himself and then by others; his identification resulting from having gone through the process. It is a process that God is not setting aside, and perhaps the fact that this is not accepted by us explains the somewhat dark situation as regards the Holy Spirit.

H.J.S. So the smoking furnace and the flame of fire which passed between those pieces would rather correspond to the gaze being turned from one's self to Jesus Christ our Lord?

J.T. I think so. Genesis says, "the sun was just going down". Genesis 15:12 It was getting dark, and "a horror, a great darkness, fell upon" Abraham. Through this he gets assurance from God, but the assurance is accompanied by the smoking furnace and the fire, meaning that power is available to us. Power will be available in view of Israel's position in the future, but it is available to us now, and the power is the Holy Spirit, of course, as in Romans 8. The smoking furnace and the flame of fire, would be just an expression of power, irresistible power, really.

H.B. As we appreciate it, would we be characterised by the power instead of this weakness and wretchedness referred to here?

J.T. I thought that we might see that, and especially in view of identification; each identifying himself according to what God has wrought in him. These vessels, in 2 Kings, are the persons available for the action of the Spirit, the oil being in mind. There were limitations then, for the oil was stayed, but still there was enough to show what is in mind. The oil is there, and the woman is to trade with it, and pay her debts, meaning that the righteous requirement of the law would be fulfilled in a christian, as having the Holy Spirit. The debt is there, but there is power to fulfil the requirement, because of

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the Spirit, but there is also the idea of trading, that is exercise in making use of the Spirit.

C.O.B. Does the man in Romans 7 take his place by the Spirit amongst those in Christ Jesus?

J.T. I think that is the way the matter stands. Chapter 8 is a sort of conclusion. "There is then now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus". Romans 8:1 This is not the man himself speaking; it is the Spirit of God, the spirit of prophecy, really, in the word. We often find ourselves endeavouring to assure people who have faith, that they have the Spirit, or should have it, that the Spirit is available to persons who have faith, and Romans 8 is to assure them.

C.O.B. Inverse 2, does he put himself in that place, or recognise that he is put in that place, in the power of the Spirit?

J.T. It is Paul saying it, of course, but, as often in the Old Testament, we discern that the spirit of prophecy, the spirit of truth, is speaking, and so here, I think. It is the authoritative pronouncement of God for the believer. If it is Paul speaking, well, we can put ourselves alongside him. That is the way I would work the truth out.

H.J.S. It is stated specifically in Romans 8:9. "Ye are not in flesh but in Spirit, if indeed God's Spirit dwell in you".

J.T. That is the idea, but then the hypothesis is "if indeed God's Spirit dwell in you", Romans 8:9, and the person ought to be able to identify himself as to this. If anyone have not God's Spirit, well, that is most serious. "If any one has not the Spirit of Christ he is not of him", Romans 8:9, and that clarifies much.

H.W. What have you in mind as to the process to which you have referred once or twice?

J.T. The well-known chapter 7. I have heard that Mr. Darby used to say that in his day the brethren would always come to the truth of Romans 7 at every Bible reading. In those days the brethren were more concerned about it than they are now. We are more concerned about

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the Lord's supper and other features of the truth, and, of course, they are valuable too, but we are not touching Romans 7 as much perhaps as we should.

H.B. Is the lack of understanding of this the cause of a good deal of lack of liberty?

J.T. I think that is right. I think people go on what they hear at Bible readings; that, of course, is very good if they get a right understanding. It is not, however, a process by which we are able to identify ourselves as having the Spirit. I am using the word identify ourselves as expressing what is needed. Later on others should identify us, but we should begin ourselves with the identification that we have the Spirit. "If any one has not the Spirit of Christ", it says here, "he is not of him"; Romans 8:9; he is not of Christ. It is most important that we should know ourselves.

Ques. Was Nicodemus one who was going through a similar process?

J.T. Well, I think what he needed was instruction. The beginning of the chapter would show that he was really born again, but needed instruction, and the Lord gives him instruction. He furnishes what Nicodemus needed, although he was a poor learner because he stayed in the council, but the Lord takes on poor learners, and makes the most of them. Nathanael was a quick learner, but the Lord is patient with learners, if they are learners at all, and we should be with each other. At the same time there ought to be some authoritative sense as to matters, as to what is what.

A.M. It says in verses 4 and 5 of chapter 8, "they that are according to Spirit". Romans 8:5. Is that the thought of the identity? I was trying to gather your thought as to identifying one's self; verses 4 and 5 speak of those who walk and who are "according to the Spirit". Romans 8:9. Is that the idea?

J.T. Well, quite. "What the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, having sent his own

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Son, in likeness of flesh of sin, and for sin, has condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law should be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to flesh but according to Spirit". Romans 8:3,4. You mean that "according to Spirit" Romans 8:4,5 is the thing we need to understand? Firstly as to identification; there is what is going on inwardly in a negative sense, and yet there is what is positive, but without the Spirit. Much is effected and intended to be effected before the Spirit actually begins His formative work in us. The work that brings about our being, as born again, is immediate and sovereign. It is one stroke, but the actual formation that is necessary to go with it has to be considered, and the Lord is instructing us. He instructed Nicodemus as to that, and said to him, "Except any one be born anew he cannot see the kingdom of God". John 3:3. That is a real challenge to us, as to what we see, or do not see and then the Lord proceeds to say "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God". John 3:5. And then He says further, "The wind blows where it will, and thou hearest it's voice, but knowest not whence it comes and where it goes: thus is every one that is born of the Spirit". John 3:8. We are now at the basic position of a person, covered in the word "I myself". That is what happens, and each is to understand and to seek out, whether he is in that, whether he has any real knowledge of it, and is not simply depending on terms that he hears.

Ques. Is this process chiefly confined to the mind?

J.T. I think it is "with the mind", Romans 7:25, because the mind is the faculty that clarifies things. The Lord brings up the question of the mind in speaking to Paul about the Supper. He said it is for a 'calling of me to mind'. It is more a mind matter than anything else at the time, when the bread is broken. So again, Paul says, "We have the mind of Christ", 1 Corinthians 2:16, that is, christians characteristically have it.

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J.H.M. Would you say there is a formative work of God in the person before the Spirit is received? I was thinking of the man being able to say, "I delight in the law of God". Romans 7:22.

J.T. There is, and we have to link on what we are saying now with the Lord's own instruction to Nicodemus in John 3. He immediately brings in the idea of new birth, being born, as it were, from top to bottom. The Lord means that the idea of new birth must pervade the whole man; it is an initial idea, but it is a formation. The whole dispensation is taken up with what the Spirit of God effects in persons, in a formative sense.

C.G. The man can say "I myself" serve the law of God. Would that be an evidence that the Spirit had been received at that point?

J.T. I would not say it was. I think much is made in the Scriptures of what is effected before the Spirit comes. The Lord had the Spirit in mind when He went to heaven; He told the disciples much, saying that the Spirit, the promise of the Father, would come, and yet He was in heaven for some days before the Spirit came, and He was on earth as risen, before He went to heaven, for forty days. There was a purpose in that, a necessity for it; something had to be done, not that the Lord had neglected anything in His service, but the condition of the disciples required further attention, before the Spirit should come in, and I think that is a thing to be thought over. The forty days, the difference between the end of Luke's gospel and the beginning of Acts has to be considered, and how long it was, and what was the reason for it. Referring to our scripture, I think it would be safer to say that the process is still on until we come to chapter 8. He says, "I myself with the mind serve God's law", Romans 7:25, but he does not say with the Spirit, because the time for that has not come.

G.C.S. Would these be the exercises of faith which precede the Spirit?

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J.T. They would; faith has taken hold, so to speak. The chapter contemplates faith; in fact, there is an overlapping between Romans 5 and Romans 8. The process from the end of the fifth to the eighth chapters is the one that has to be understood, and I am afraid it is evaded to a large extent.

J.H.M. In Galatians it says, "because ye are sons, God has sent out the Spirit of his Son". Galatians 4:6.

J.T. Well, that would bear on what we are saying. Galatians 3:26 says, "ye are all God's sons by faith in Christ Jesus". It used to be said that it is a faith matter, not a Spirit matter. It is said in verse 25, "faith having come". There was a time when faith had not come, not indeed that it was not there, for it was there from the outset, in Abel and so on, but the period of it had not come. There was a period in which the people of God were kept in the state of childhood; "the period fixed by the father", Galatians 4:2. I am speaking in a figurative sense. The house had compartments, we might say; the nursery and the drawing-room, but the nursery is the place of children, and Galatians contemplates that that has ceased, that the nursery has ceased; that we are all sons of God now, on the principle of faith, and because of that the Spirit comes. The basis has been there, so that as soon as the time of faith is reached, then it is the time of sonship, but then the process inwardly has to be gone through by each one; that, perhaps, is where the difficulty lies with many of us. The "period fixed by the father" Galatians 4:2 is finished, and the time of faith is reached; "faith having come" refers, I would say, to the time when the Lord Jesus went up to heaven, "and a cloud received him out of their sight"; Acts 1:9; not that faith was not there before, but the faith period began then. Everything was to be apprehended now on the principle of faith, and therefore "ye are all God's Sons by faith in Christ Jesus". Galatians 3:26. The Holy Spirit comes in because you are that; "because ye are sons, God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father". Galatians 4:6.

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It is an affectionate matter, but the mind is more a faith matter.

G.C.S. Would the order be, new birth, faith, and then the Spirit?

J.T. But we must not forget the great fact of redemption, involving so much, and the Lord's resurrection and His ascension. There are the forty days before His ascension and ten days after, before the Spirit came; and then the time that ensued before Paul came, before the completion of the word of God. We are coming to the fulness of the results now, only perhaps we have to go through things more, but the time of Paul is the point; the final thing is in Paul. He completed the word of God.

C.O.B. Do the empty vessels ready for borrowing indicate a work of God before they are filled?

J.T. Just so. They were empty, but let us remember they were sons, it is the woman's sons, they were first called her children, "the creditor is come to take my two children to be bondmen". 2 Kings 4:1. And then in verse 4, the prophet says, "shut the door upon thee and upon thy sons". 2 Kings 4:4. I think where you get that term there is more light, more liberty. We are coming into daylight, so to speak, so that the vessels are there, and they were to get all they could.

H.J.S. Before that she had said, "Thy handmaid has not anything at all in the house". 2 Kings 4:2.

J.T. Quite, "but a pot of oil"; 2 Kings 4:2; which would mean the Spirit is here in some sense.

J.H.M. Do I understand that Galatians speaks rather of the difference between the two periods, and does not so much affirm things about individuals?

J.T. I think that is the truth, it speaks of the faith period. The Lord said, in Simon's house, that the two debtors having "nothing to pay, he forgave both of them". Luke 7:42. Forgiveness was there; it was the period of forgiveness involving faith; forgiveness runs with faith. It was true there in Simon's house, and the forgiving period

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was frank and open, but only one got forgiveness, and that one was the woman who had certain other qualities. We may look at it in Luke 7:44. "Turning to the woman he said to Simon, Seest thou this woman"? The Lord turned to the woman meaning that she was in His mind, He was making everything of her, but He was speaking to Simon. He says then to Simon, "I entered into thy house; thou gayest me not water on my feet, but she", (emphatic), "has washed my feet with tears". Luke 7:44. These are qualities that run along with the reception of the Holy Spirit, and indicate that the process has been gone through. "She has washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with her hair. Thou gavest me not a kiss, but she from the time I came in has not ceased kissing my feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint, but she has anointed my feet with myrrh. For which cause I say to thee, her many sins are forgiven". Luke 7:44 - 46

The Lord is speaking about forgiveness based on love, the real thing, which involves the dispensation. It is a love time; as well as the time of the Spirit and the time of faith, it is the time of love, and so this woman had love, but then she had also faith, and so the word is, "she loved much; but he to whom little is forgiven loves little". Luke 7:47. That, of course, will explain a lot, where there is no love, or little love. He had been speaking to Simon, but now He said to her, "Thy sins are forgiven". Luke 7:48. And then the others say something; "they that were with them at table began to say within themselves, Who is this who forgives also sins? And he said to the woman, Thy faith has saved thee; go in peace". Luke 7:49,50. She was the one that had the faith, not Simon. And that enters into what we are saying as to how we come to identify ourselves, each one of us, as qualified for the Holy Spirit.

H.J.S. If faith is basic it underlies even the love, does it not?

J.T. It does. So the woman in Kings was a widow, her husband had died and she was in debt, but the prophetic

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word is what meets it, and that is why I was thinking of the importance of the prophetic word, whether we see it in the Old Testament or whether we get the spirit of it in this passage. The word of prophecy is authoritative; this is seen especially in the epistle to the Corinthians, where the prophetic word is so stressed.

E.T.S. Are we likely to get the prophetic word if we realise and confess what this woman did, the barrenness and emptiness that attaches to us?

J.T. I think so. She knows where to go for it anyway, which is important; she is not turning aside to a person who does not know what to tell her. It is said, "A woman of the wives of the sons of the prophets cried to Elisha saying, Thy servant my husband is dead, and thou knowest that thy servant feared Jehovah; and the creditor is come to take my two children to be bondmen. And Elisha said to her, What shall I do for thee? Tell me, what hast thou in the house"? 2 Kings 4:1,2. He wants to know, and she intimates that he does know in a general way about her circumstances. He represents the prophetic word, and we must have Elisha, throughout all these chapters.

Ques. Is it a challenge, "What hast thou in the house"? 2 Kings 4:2.

J.T. Yes, he is very definite about it, which would point to the need of definiteness in ministry. She says, "Thy servant", "is dead", and so on, "and Elisha said to her, What shall I do for thee? Tell me, what hast thou in the house? And she said, Thy handmaid has not anything at all in the house but a pot of oil". 2 Kings 4:2. Well, that is the thing, that was all that was necessary, there is something we can count on in dealing with these matters, if the Spirit is there. Earlier, of course, it is a question of the work of the Spirit, the new birth, but then if the Spirit is here at all to be received, then we can count on the formation, the vessels. The vessels imply information.

Ques. What is the force of having the pot of oil in the house?

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Does it bear upon the character of the dispensation?

J.T. Yes, but it raises the question whether there is faith in persons, because we must remember that the dispensation is one of faith; the dispensation of God, it is called, which is in faith; that marks it; and then these other things mark it too, and above all, the presence and activity of the Holy Spirit. And so this person is a type of a believer now, one who perhaps has little knowledge of the truth, and hence she is in debt, but she knows where to go, and to whom to speak, and she can tell him what he wants to know. "Tell me", he says, "what hast thou in the house"? 2 Kings 4:2. It is a question of the person; what he has, or she has, and what can be worked out from it.

F.W. Is it a question of our recognising that we are vessels for the Spirit?

J.T. Well, that is the idea. Elijah had brought in these principles. We very often have two persons involved, in certain lines of truth, Peter and John, for instance, Paul and Barnabas, and many others. Here in this section we have Elijah and Elisha, and we will doubtless have noticed that many things that Elisha proposes in his ministry, have their roots in what Elijah had done. Elijah had already had to do with something like this, the woman of Sarepta, for instance. Elijah went there and he found her gathering sticks. Jehovah had said that He had prepared a woman to maintain him. He found her gathering sticks, and he immediately proposes something that brings out that there was a pot of oil, a little meal in a barrel, and "a little oil in a cruse", 1 Kings 17:12. So that we can see the link between Elijah's ministry and Elisha's ministry, and, of course, that ought to help us all, because those of us who are ministering now have had precedents. We have known those who have ministered, better than we do maybe, and we do well to watch them and follow what they do and say, because that runs right down through the dispensation and on to

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the end of it. And so here we have Elisha answering certain questions in a widow woman, and he wants to find out what she has in the house, and she says that she has a pot of oil. In Elijah's day it was a little oil in a cruse and a little meal in a barrel; that is to say, at least there were vessels, suitable vessels, and if we pursue the truth and work it out, as the Spirit of God has in mind to guide us into all the truth, we shall arrive at this thought. The woman says, "Thy handmaid has not anything at all in the house but a pot of oil", 2 Kings 4:2. She had very little estimation of it; it was small in her mind, but the prophet says to her, "Go, borrow for thyself" -- notice that, "for thyself vessels abroad from all thy neighbours, empty vessels", 2 Kings 4:3. They are to be empty for the principle in mind is that of a containing vessel, as the woman said, "a pot of oil", 2 Kings 4:2. We must understand the idea of a vessel. The Lord says of Paul, "he is an elect vessel to me", Acts 9:15, and each one of us who is ministering is a vessel, or he is nothing, and, of course, every one who has the Spirit is a vessel, or he could not have the Spirit. We are dealing now with what qualifies a vessel for having the Spirit. The prophet says, "Go, borrow for thyself vessels abroad from all thy neighbours, empty vessels; let it not be few; and go in, and shut the door upon thee and upon thy sons" (notice sons) "and pour out into all those vessels, and set aside what is full. And she went from him, and shut the door upon her and upon her sons: they brought the vessels to her, and she poured out. And it came to pass when the vessels were full, that she said to her son, Bring me yet a vessel", 2 Kings 4:3 - 6, meaning that she would still proceed, "And he said to her, There is not a vessel more. And the oil stayed", 2 Kings 4:6. So that the idea of a vessel underlies all this, and it is a question, therefore, of qualification.

Ques. What is the significance of the sons bringing in the vessels to her?

J.T. Well, I think to bring in the idea of suitable

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persons acting at any given time. You get it constantly; there are suitable accompaniments, as for instance, in the case of Abigail, she had five damsels. That was only to bring in the feminine idea, to stress it, and so in other matters, this occurs to stress the thing, to make it fuller, to make the thing complete.

F.W. Were they previously vessels for the flesh, but now empty and ready for the reception of the Spirit?

J.T. Well, I think that is the idea, and as to the question being raised about qualifications, I would say, that at the end of Romans 7, in what the person says, we have the suggestion that he is ready. "O wretched man that I am"! Romans 7:24, that is negative. "Who shall deliver me out of this body of death"? Romans 7:24. And then he thanks God, meaning that there is something there of a positive nature, referring to God in thanksgiving; meaning that he would be proceeding on the line of the service of God, in liberty. He thanks God, and says "through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I myself with the mind serve God's law; but with the flesh sin's law". Romans 7:25 I think he is ready. Then from the objective side, as I was saying, Romans 5 may contemplate that he has the Spirit; maybe he has, and maybe he has failed to use it rightly, because he has not gone through the process. But these verses give us the process, and the next chapter gives us the power, just as Abraham realised the power in the smoking furnace and the burning lamp. The power is there.

A.C.S.P. Is there a link between the serving of God's law and the obedience that marks the woman to the word of the prophet?

J.T. Quite so; the obedience of faith.

P.G.B. Would the woman in John 4 be an illustration of one who went through the process and then becomes a vessel in view of the service of God?

J.T. I would say that fully. The woman of Samaria, and what she went through to reach the grand result.

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The Lord intimates what the Holy Spirit, the water that He would give, would be to her, it "shall become in him a fountain of water springing up into eternal life". John 4:14.

A.M. Have you anything in mind as to life -- "live thou and thy sons on the rest"? 2 Kings 4:7.

J.T. Well, I think the idea is that the Spirit is life, in view of righteousness.

D.J.M. The Spirit here dwells in you. That is a heart matter?

J.T. I would say so. It is more than what is merely often confessed as the truth, that a certain one has the Spirit. What about the dwelling? Is the Spirit in me, as it were, at home, because that is the idea? Christianity has that in mind, the dwelling, and Romans 8 opens it up basically, that the Spirit is life; that is not what is said elsewhere, "has eternal life" as John enlarges on it, but the Spirit is life. It is a potential thought.

Ques. Does what is of the Spirit respond to the prophetic word?

J.T. Well, I would say that; hence the great thought of ministry. We might say, Why does not God do everything at once? It used to be said by a certain teacher in America that everything was there before, even before redemption, but that is not the truth. We must have redemption; we must have the new birth, and we must have the gift of the Spirit. These things are necessities, and christianity depends on them.

G.C.S. You said earlier that it is as well to go back to Romans 7. Is that to appreciate afresh our deliverance?

J.T. Well, to go over the ground. Just as we feel it is necessary in our readings to go through the order of the truth. Undoubtedly from the beginning the twelve were appealed to in all matters of truth, and the believers persevered in the apostles' doctrine. Matters of truth would be in mind in any appeal to the twelve; but then Paul had not come, and even after he had come there were revivals. Paul's own introduction into the assembly

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had the character of a revival, and so it is that we need to go over things, and the more we do it the better, because we forget. The Spirit is here in patience waiting upon us, and follows up all these meetings, so as to instil us with the truth and form us in it. I believe that is the way the thing stands.

Ques. Would the woman going into the house and shutting the door upon herself and upon her sons be suggestive of excluding worldly influences?

J.T. I think that is the idea of it. It links on with John 20:19, "the doors were shut", "through fear of the Jews". That is, to shut out the legal element, because it interferes with the operations of the Spirit; and so the Lord in that chapter affords us a pattern of the whole dispensation. He came to where the disciples were; "Jesus came and stood in the midst". John 20:19. Luke does not say He came but that "he himself stood in their midst"; Luke 24:36; they were not ready, but in John it is the abstract idea; the Lord came and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace be to you". John 20:19. The disciples were not perturbed, but they were glad when they saw the Lord. I believe that is the abstract idea of christianity. As we are together thus it ought to be a time of joy. The Lord says a second time, "Peace be to you"; John 20:19; the repetition is to establish it. Christianity was established, and it is maintained in the establishment of it by the Spirit.

G.C.S. So that the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

J.T. Quite so. How can you have establishment without righteousness? And that is what we thought of reaching here, "in order that the righteous requirement of the law should be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to flesh but according to Spirit", Romans 8:4. So that the thing is stabilised, and if God reaches that point, the Spirit maintains things. Even if we are only very few, the thing is maintained, and it will be maintained to the end.

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A.M. Does the righteous requirement of the law involve love, and have we any power to love apart from the Spirit?

J.T. Well, I think that is right. The first fruit of the Spirit is love, Galatians 5:22. We have often remarked as to 1 Corinthians 13, that owing to the absence of love, that chapter is like a picture on the wall, for the love was not evident in persons. The abstract idea of love is detailed, but we have not the persons who love. The Lord is now working on this whole matter, to get us into love, to have love among ourselves, especially in our gatherings that love might prevail.

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DISTINCTIVENESS IN MINISTRY

Acts 18:24 - 28; 1 Corinthians 3:4 - 8; 1 Corinthians 16:12

J.T. Apollos, it is thought, affords instruction as to ministry, especially referring to ministry as independent of undue influence from others; what we may call spiritual independence in ministry. There was in the early days a dependence of ministers on each other, especially seen in Timotheus and Titus, whom the Lord evidently gave to Paul to assist him, as John Mark also had been given to Paul and Barnabas. But Apollos would remind us of the need of freedom; keeping ourselves free from influence. The influence of Paul with Timotheus and Titus and others at one time was necessary, but now it seems that we are safe in avoiding special influence in ministry. Paul expressly states in 1 Corinthians 16, that he had begged Apollos to go to Corinth, hut it was not his mind to do so, and there is no evidence that Paul in any way sought to influence him unduly, but just left it, that he would go when he had good opportunity. I thought it would be helpful to consider these thoughts and expand them together, with a view to keeping us free from undue influence in ministry. Apollos seems to have been a provision at the time, a provision of the Lord. He appears in the ministry and was evidently needed, but before pursuing his service he needed to be corrected, and hence what we have as to him in Acts 18 helps as to accuracy in ministry which is a great matter and often neglected.

P.L. "Cutting in a straight line the word of truth"? 2 Timothy 2:15.

J.T. Just so.

F.W.B. Would Luke have the thought of accuracy in mind -- writing with order?

J.T. Yes, and with method. He has method in his account of things and of course that would imply accuracy.

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P.L. "To his own master he stands or falls", Romans 14:4. Is that the true idea of spiritual independency, and freedom from undue influence?

J.T. Just so; and of course, the principle of independency in this sense repudiates all clerical arrangements in ministry, and creeds as to the truth. In a word it aims against all that is abroad in the public profession. The Lord in His parabolic ministry, after a long dissertation, inquires whether they understood. "Have ye understood all these things? They say to him, Yea, Lord", Matthew 13:51. Then He says, "For this reason every scribe discipled to the kingdom of the heavens is like a man that is a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old", Matthew 13:52. The idea of accuracy would be in the Lord's mind in the work of the scribe; it requires accuracy.

M.C. Why is the thought of treasure brought in there?

J.T. It is parabolic teaching, and the Lord would have in mind what He was going on with Himself. It would be in His mind at the time and it involved treasure. It involved really the revelation of God in the Old Testament and in the New. The word treasure conveys that he has a store of precious things; these are in the Scriptures; we are to search in them for hidden treasure.

F.G.S. As to this independent line, does Paul himself move in that way as he writes to the saints in Galatia? "God, who set me apart even from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me, that I may announce him as glad tidings among the nations, immediately I took not counsel with flesh and blood", Galatians 1:15,16.

J.T. It is, fully. I believe this would bear on young men who are aiming at serving, because we are apt as young persons to copy too much and imitate others, whereas Paul's method and what we see in Apollos, too, would avoid that. Young men are apt to be copyists, not with any evil intent, but the tendency would be for

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persons who are themselves influential to influence young men, whereas their wisdom would be to abide by the Scriptures and by the example of those whom heaven accredits. We are to consider our leaders and remember them if they have gone to be with the Lord, and those living we have to follow, but that is another matter. We are not to be copyists. The Thessalonian christians were beloved children; they were saluted as "the assembly of Thessalonians in God the Father", 1 Thessalonians 1:1, showing that they were in the realm of love, but they imitated the assemblies in Judaea, which would be important, because the Judaean assemblies would be near Jerusalem where the apostles began their work, and the Lord Himself laboured. Instead of imitating what was near by, perhaps at Rome, or other nearby assemblies, they went afield to the realm of Judaea. So now where young assemblies are formed it is wise to take account of what is done in the older assemblies where there are older brethren following right principles.

Ques. Would the reference to his being an Alexandrian suggest God's hand is over matters in determining the environment of a servant in order to develop his individuality?

J.T. Exactly, and the place that Alexandria had in the ancient world would not be overlooked. It had a great place under God, in relation to the Old Testament, the Septuagint version of it; and it has had a great place ever since. It established independency from Jerusalem and even from Europe where already Paul's work had begun, and where Paul himself had persons who were attendant upon him. It was well that such a servant should arise and we see how quickly he learnt the truth and how quickly he was recognised by Paul and others in the truth. Paul classifies Apollos with himself, yet in no sense does he endeavour to influence him unduly. We have to learn not only to keep from what would damage us, but also not to ignore what would help us.

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J.O.S. Is Apollos, in his teachable spirit, a good example for a servant?

J.T. Yes, in his teachableness, but also in his accuracy. He read the Scriptures and was accurate in reading them. We may read the Scriptures and use them inaccurately. Apollos did not do that, but he needed more instruction.

P.L. When Mark treats of the appointment of the apostles, each one of them is sent separately in relation to service; chapter 3:16 -19. Mark having the levitical thought in view, would establish this individuality.

J.T. Very good. In the other gospels it appears differently. Sometimes they are found individually and sometimes in pairs.

W.E.M. There seems to be divine skill in the way Aquila and Priscilla help this brother. They do not ignore what he had, but add to it. The baptism of John was a good start and they link on with that.

J.T. Yes, they took him to them, it says. Though he was instructed in the way of the Lord and taught exactly the things concerning Jesus, he knew only the baptism of John; that is, so far his education was defective, but they took him to them. They might have taken him to the back of the room, but taking him to them would probably mean they took him to their house.

J.M. Why is it the way of God in verse 26 and the way of the Lord in verse 25?

J.T. Well, I think the way of God fits in with Corinth. Of course it was the Lord who said, "I have much people in this city", Acts 18:10, but in many other instances the instruction as to Corinth relates to God. It is the assembly of God, the idea is God and it is the order of God.

Ques. Would it link on with previous testimonies, such as Moses saying, "Make me now to know thy way"? Exodus 33:13.

J.T. I think it would link on more with the priority of the New Testament, without in any way diminishing the value of the Old Testament as inspired, but the apostolic teaching is given as the prime basis of christianity in

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Acts 2. So that any matters that have to be debated or finalised make it necessary for us to recognise the priority of the New Testament, especially apostolic teaching, and more especially Paul's teaching. His is the last word, the completion of the word of God. So that in Matthew 13 to which we have referred, the new things are put first, then the old.

F.W.B. Does not this section show how quick Apollos was to take on teaching? It says at the end of the chapter, that he convinced the Jews publicly, showing by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ. Is that not a great advance on what Apollos knew previously?

J.T. I would think that. Verse 25 says that he knew only the baptism of John. The twelve men at Ephesus in the next chapter were baptised to the baptism of John, but apparently they paid no attention to his teaching as regards the Holy Spirit. John the baptist had said much about the Holy Spirit. He said, "I beheld the Spirit descending as a dove from heaven, and it abode upon him", "but he who sent me", "said to me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit. And I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God", John 1:32 - 34. These men had evidently neglected that, so that they were very poor in their spiritual education; and yet they were disciples. It just indicates how far the work of God may proceed, and yet the Holy Spirit not be there in the persons. They said to Paul, "We did not even hear if the Holy Spirit was"; Acts 19:2; the word come is not in the original. These men were not up to the truth of the moment, yet they could have had more even if they went by what they already possessed; that is often the case with us. One marvels as moving among christians at the little they do know, how ignorant so many are. John had witnessed that Jesus, on whom they had believed, would baptise with the Holy Spirit, and yet they had not come into that blessing.

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H.W. Is it not delightful to see how Aquila and Priscilla were available in having a right outlook with regard to the potentialities of this brother, the way they would take him and what would be involved in it, and the right kind of influence he would come under in order that he might be instructed more exactly.

J.T. They are mentioned equally in the Scriptures, one as much as the other; it is clear that Priscilla was a true wife. She recognised her head, and yet she would see what was needed in the instruction of Apollos. She would never be out of her place, and of course, she would have no public place in the Bible readings, according to Paul's stipulation. She would not be silent afterwards, but would speak to Apollos in a seemly way.

F.G.S. Taking him to them would make way for the service that is carried out in a household setting.

J.T. It makes room for her. Paul had been with them, and she would have learnt how to behave in the house with Paul there. She would have plenty of opportunity and freedom to speak to Paul, for his trade was the same as theirs. God uses all these things in His government with us. It often helps in assembly relations if we are of the same trade.

P.L. Do you think that the personification in Aquila and Priscilla, of Paul's ministry at Corinth made Apollos desirous to visit them and stimulated him to go into Achaia, for it is his own proposal to go to Achaia, which supports your view as to his independence spiritually? Do you think that if the saints carry such features about with them, though they be away from their locality, they may in the attractiveness of these features stimulate their brethren to come and visit them? As they personified Paul's ministry as it had been at Corinth, Apollos proposed to go to that very place.

J.T. You are alluding to what is said in Acts 18:27.

P.L. Yes; he proposes to go to Achaia. He saw in Aquila and Priscilla the greatness of Paul's work there,

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and he would have first-hand knowledge as to it. If we are personifying the grace that is secured in our localities, it would stimulate circulation among our brethren. They did not tell him to go; it was his own purpose. They must have suggested much that was attractive as to Paul's work at Corinth.

J.T. Down in the West country lately I noticed constant reference to dear Mr. Coates. No doubt Paul influenced people more than any, and the saints would rightly follow him. "Be my imitators, even as I also am of Christ", 1 Corinthians 11:1.

G.P.T. What is the significance of Paul including Apollos among the all things that belong to the saints?

"All things are yours. Whether Paul, or Apollos" 1 Corinthians 3:22.

J.T. Well, the saints are greater than the minister, I mean the assembly is. Gifts are only for a time; they are members of the body of course, but actual gift is not to last for ever. So that in 1 Corinthians 13:8 - 10, we read "Love never fails; but whether prophecies, they shall be done away; or tongues, they shall cease; or knowledge, it shall be done away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part: but when that which is perfect has come, that which is in part shall be done away". Gift is not eternal, but the saints are, and the assembly is. So that the assembly itself viewed in that sense is greater than the gifts. However great a person may be, such as Paul or Apollos, he belongs to the saints, but the assembly is God's assembly -- Christ's assembly.

Ques. Is that the thought of the Levites being given to Aaron and his sons?

J.T. It is the assembly of the firstborn ones, and you cannot get that anywhere else than in the assembly. It is derived from the idea of the Levites.

F.W.B. This brother would have been a valuable addition to Corinth. It says, "the brethren wrote to the disciples engaging them to receive him". Acts 18:27. We would be

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glad to embrace this kind of servant, one ready for adjustment and able to contribute.

J.T. The saints viewed by themselves abstractly know what is right and can put a value on things, and so, "All things are yours". 1 Corinthians 3:21. We get a list of the things in mind in 1 Corinthians 3:22,23. "Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things coming, all are yours; and ye are Christ's, and Christ is God's". That is very conclusive and in effect brings out how God is the prime thought in the teaching at Corinth. The order is God, Christ and the saints.

J.W. Do you think the reference to the Scriptures in the last verse indicates that Apollos would be like a Berean; he would search the Scriptures?

J.T. I would say that, and that brings up another matter, Paul's company, and what his company would be like. We read in Acts 13 that Paul had a company; no other servant is spoken of in that way, and it would point to what he says elsewhere, "Be my imitators, even as I also am of Christ". 1 Corinthians 11:1. If we compare what we have in chapter 13 with what we have in chapter 20, we see how Paul's company was constituted. If we follow scripture principles and methods we shall not go wrong. In Acts 20:4 it says, "there accompanied him as far as Asia, Sopater son of Pyrrhus, a Berean; and of Thessalonians, Aristarchus and Secundus, and Gaius and Timotheus of Derbe, and of Asia, Tychicus and Trophimus". Acts 20:4. There are thus seven persons in the company of Paul. The traducers might say, "his letters", "are weighty and strong; but his presence in the body weak, and his speech naught", 2 Corinthians 10:10, and that he carries his company around with him on his own account; that he was a partisan, but the company was merely to bring out the result of Paul's work; what it would result in, even as when Paul brought up Titus to Jerusalem, so that it might be seen what the gentiles could be under his ministry; they do not even attempt to circumcise him,

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Galatians 2:3. Titus was manifestly acceptable and the subject of the work of God, and they did not attempt to circumcise him because he was such a product of Paul's ministry among the gentiles. So here in Acts 20 the seven men include a Berean, and I believe you might well classify Apollos with the Bereans. They would ask for your scripture. If, for instance, anyone said, There is another family in which God is working now besides the assembly, Apollos would say, It is not Scripture. It is most important to be right about these matters at this juncture. We are apt to be independent in our minds in following Scripture, but Apollos followed the Scriptures and became a better servant.

J.O.S. The Bereans were not suspicious of what Paul taught. They received the word with all readiness of mind and then examined the Scriptures to get confirmation.

J.T. You can well afford to wait a little for right doctrine. The lie travels faster than the truth in the world.

M.C. Is it not interesting that only one Berean is mentioned? If we have the authority of Scripture, if necessary, we can be ready to stand alone.

J.T. Quite so; he would not let anything pass. I believe he was in Paul's company because he was a Berean. No one could say Paul was a partisan; they are all from different parts of the world.

W.M. Being in Paul's company would not conflict with having one's own line.

J.T. Quite so.

F.G.S. He convinced the Jews with great force showing from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

J.T. Yes; he was able to say that. He may not have been able to tell us about eternal life, which we have been at for fifty years, and have not reached it yet. But Apollos was going by the Scriptures as to the Person of Christ. If we went by the Scriptures more, we should arrive at the

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truth quicker. We spend too much time in writing and asking questions of brothers who are at a distance. Whereas, if we look at the Scriptures with the local brethren, including the local sisters, we may get the answer, and not spend time unnecessarily.

F.G.S. We have the mind of Christ. Does that work out in the local company?

J.T. That is the idea of it. It means the thinking faculty; local brethren have that normally, and if a matter comes up, we might get the answer locally.

P.L. Every spiritual problem is to sharpen by use this investigating faculty.

J.T. By reason of use; quite so.

G.P.T. Apollos had a difficult task in convincing the Jews. Such people would want a deal of convincing.

J.T. He was an eloquent man. God had taken him up for that reason. He takes us up before we are converted, as Paul was taken up from his birth. He takes account of what we are mentally, for the mind of Christ refers to the thinking powers, so that we are able to work a thing out. We have the best translation of the Scriptures that there is; we have Concordances, we have the Collected Writings, and the Synopsis. God has provided for us, and it is wiser for us to work things out locally if we can.

Rem. We see the blessed unity of Paul's company.

J.T. What a good time these seven brothers would have. There was evidently something at Troas requiring attention and correction. Paul has to discourse a long time so that things should become clear, and in the meantime Eutychus falls down through the window and is taken up for dead, and God used the interruption to help to facilitate what was needed. Paul remained all night going through these things and went away in the morning, but the others took the boy away. Paul did not do that; he did not add him to the company. Some might have done that, regarding him as a wonderful trophy, and have asked him to preach. But it says,

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"They brought away the boy". Acts 20:12. He needed parental care. He would be a comfort to them; perhaps he never was before. We are not told what happened afterwards. It is a section relating to the Lord's supper, and undoubtedly the long discourse of Paul and the conversation which ensued had the Supper in mind.

P.L. It is a sort of prophetic setting out of it.

J.T. Just so; the Lord's supper is linked with it, because the first point is, in verse 7, "we being assembled", not that Paul had anything to do with the assembling, but "we being assembled to break bread", Acts 20:7, that is the proper rendering. It is a mutual thought. Then the discourse was lengthy. One might say, Why did they not break bread at once? And, of course, it is a pertinent question. We are not told what Paul said, but he would hardly have discoursed at length if something were not wrong, if they were not needing the discourse. As he discoursed the boy fell and was taken up dead, then he is resuscitated, and Paul resumes his ministry in a conversational manner, and they break bread. Daybreak is mentioned, and Paul went away as if the matter were finished. The boy is not neglected; it says, "they brought away the boy alive, and were no little comforted", Acts 20:12. It seems as if the idea of love were required to be known in that place, as well as instruction by Paul. We need to have living boys and girls, instead of boys and girls looking out of the window.

F.G.S. Is it similar to Jairus' daughter? The Lord commanded something to be given her to eat, Luke 8:55.

J.T. That is a parallel passage. Love is essential to the assembly, not only that we have right doctrine, but life and love -- love among yourselves.

J.W. There was energetic action, in his falling upon him?

J.T. That was evidence of the love Paul had. It is like the Samaritan, Luke 10, who carried with him such

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things as were needed in such a case. It involves also the idea of maintenance, the two pence, and then he himself stayed at the inn all night.

Ques. Would the thought of watering enter into the care of the boy, and in the case of Jairus' daughter too? Paul planted and Apollos watered.

J.T. It is an agricultural thought. Planting and watering would be agricultural, and a reference to life in the soil. The condition of the soil is living and suitable for planting in; the soil of this town, for instance. Planting and watering is an agricultural thought which is another thing from life in a person.

K. You spoke of the danger of being copyists and following others. I think it would help if you gave a practical illustration of this.

J.T. Well, a copyist, one who copies the specimen line given, probably gets worse and worse as he goes down the page. Instead of improvement there is rather decrease in his skill in writing. So that the necessary thing is to maintain life, to keep in accord with one's time and one's age, and to be normal in what one is doing. The Lord Himself was that, normal when a Boy of twelve. He went down to Nazareth with His parents and was subject to them, but then at thirty He takes up the position of a Man.

F.G.S. He brought forth fruit in His season.

J.T. So that it is a matter of life, whether one has the Holy Spirit, the living qualities of the Spirit in him. The Spirit carries all the gifts with Him; Corinthians would show that. That would correct copying. God gives you something for yourself. It is all by the Spirit. One may get a gift by asking for it.

A.L.B. Would it be like Galatians 2 where Paul himself says, "I went up according to revelation, and I laid before them the glad tidings which I preach among the nations, but privately to those conspicuous among them, lest in any way I run, or had run in vain". Galatians 2:2. Paul, I

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suppose was moving in somewhat the same way as Apollos in the sense that he was not subservient, or under undue influence; he desired some confirmation, however.

J.T. Of course, he had the power of revelation. He says, "God who", "was pleased to reveal his Son in me". Galatians 1:15,16. That is a great fact as to Paul, as over against Peter, where the revelation was to him. With Paul there is a certain inwardness in the fact that the revelation of the Son of God was in him. What you refer to ought to be compared with Acts 15, because that chapter is the Spirit's account of things as to the persons that were there, whereas the Galatian epistle is Paul's account which refers more to himself and his exercises.

Rem. Following involves inward work, but copying more what is external.

J.T. Many have the natural power to follow up the truth, but they make shipwreck ultimately, because they are not relying on the Spirit of God in them.

M.C. Should we be concerned to reach what is approved by God? It says of Apollos, "For he with great force convinced the Jews publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was the Christ". Acts 18:28. Is that not the end reached?

J.T. Quite, but, of course, there is much more than that. Often ministry today requires that we should be alone with the Lord, to get something from Him. One would not be free to pursue unless having been alone with the Lord. He never fails to give you something that the brethren need.

J.M. Is that what you meant yesterday by keeping sabbath?

J.T. That is the idea, lying fallow. Then the influences, as in nature, the air and the elements, affect our bodies, so spiritually we get what is divinely around us and absorb it. I believe that is what is meant by lying fallow. On the other hand the mind may not be touched in that, therefore you have to think what is to be said, not simply

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that you have spiritual power to say it, but the mind enables you to gather up before God what you should say, because we have the mind of Christ.

F.G.S. "Strive diligently to present thyself approved to God, a workman that has not to be ashamed, cutting in a straight line the word of truth", 2 Timothy 2:15.

J.T. Just so; that is a question of truth.

J.O.S. One might get a thought, but does not the servant need to be near the Lord in order to express it aright?

J.T. "The Lord gives the word: great the host of the publishers", Psalm 68:11. That is the idea of expression.

W.E.M. There are two thoughts in Corinthians, God's husbandry and God's building. Would the watering come in in connection with the husbandry in view of fruit?

J.T. It is an agricultural figure which Scripture often uses, as well as many other things, as it says, "Doth not even nature itself teach you"? 1 Corinthians 11:14. Paul wrote to Corinth, "one says, I am of Paul, and another, I of Apollos, are ye not men"? 1 Corinthians 3:4. That was corrective. Then he inquires, "Who then is Apollos, and who Paul"? 1 Corinthians 3:5. He is placing himself alongside of Apollos now, and says they were just "Ministering servants, through whom ye have believed". 1 Corinthians 3:5. He is giving Apollos credit for that too, and then that the service was carried on "as the Lord has given to each. I have planted; Apollos watered; but God has given the increase. So that neither the planter is anything, nor the waterer". 1 Corinthians 3:5 - 7. God is the Giver of the increase, so that God is everything. "The planter and the waterer are one; but each shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are God's fellow-workmen". 1 Corinthians 3:8,9 So that the thought is elevated up to fellow-workmanship under God. Thus the matter is plain as to the work of God, how it proceeds, and how the

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servants may work together, even though one may be much younger than the other. Grace will operate so that the elder will make much of the younger and the younger will know his measure and keep to it.

Ques. Does Paul pass on from the agricultural thought dealing with persons to the assembly thought?

J.T. Very good. He did not send Apollos as he did Timotheus, for the idea of independent ministry is in mind in Apollos; that is ministry exercised directly under Christ, and free of other influence. The Lord would have him move in that way. I suppose in truth Apollos did not want to give the Corinthians an opportunity of using him against Paul. I believe that was the reason. There were enemies of Paul there, and its shows the skill that there ought to be with the ministers in not using anything against each other.

Ques. Is that why it is said, "concerning the brother Apollos"? 1 Corinthians 16:12.

J.T. He was not an apostle; I suppose the word brother is an honourable reference.

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THE TIME OF SONSHIP

Galatians 3:21 - 29; Galatians 4:1 - 31

J.T. The hope is that we will reach in our consideration of these scriptures the thought of sonship as set out perhaps more plainly here than elsewhere, and what is hoped too is that we may see that sonship depends on time, as it is said here "the period fixed by the father"; Galatians 4:2; the father being a figurative thought, meaning that God had fixed the period of sonship, and that it was as Christ came. The word is, "So that the law has been our tutor up to Christ, that we might be justified on the principle of faith", Galatians 3:24. There is, therefore, the inference that sonship began as Christ became Man. It was there even before He died, for the gospel of Matthew intimates in the Lord's own words in chapter 17, that the sons of the present period are exempt from what would be a tax ordinarily, and the Lord Himself secured the means of exemption by the fish which He directed Peter to catch. It was to be used to liberate, to pay the supposed tax both for the Lord and for Peter, but, in paying it, the Lord makes it plain that He and Peter were free. "Then are the sons free". Matthew 17:26. It is hoped that we shall arrive at some clarity as to these points and thus understand the Spirit of sonship, that it is an added thought; sonship being one thought and the Spirit of sonship being another.

W.W. I do not know that I have quite got your thought as to the distinction.

J.T. It is stated in Galatians 4, after the remarks made in chapter 3 to which allusion has been made, that "when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, come of woman, come under law, that he might redeem those under law, that we might receive sonship. But because ye are Sons, God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father". Galatians 4:4 - 6. That is,

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the spirit of His Son is sent into our hearts, because we are sons. That would mean light as to it, the light affording the relationship in the principle of it, and then the Spirit affording the spirit of the relationship, namely the Spirit of sonship. The two things have to be regarded in their own settings -- sonship and the spirit of it.

Ques. Is the first presented as a matter of faith in chapter 3?

J.T. That is what I thought, and even before faith the thing is there, although not apprehended; the thing is there as the mind of God according to Galatians 3:24,25, "faith having come", "ye are all God's sons by faith in Christ Jesus". But then what precedes that is light as to sonship; that is, the time fixed of the Father. The order would be therefore, the time fixed of the Father, and then faith, and then the Spirit of adoption. It seems to me that we need perhaps to be more accurate in these matters, because the incarnation of the Son of God involved sonship; although not immediately available to others, yet it was there, and is set out in Matthew 17, as has been remarked. I rather think it means that. The time fixed of the Father would synchronise of course with faith no doubt as to application; at the same time, the idea of the Father's fixing, and the time of tutorship, and then the time of the arrival of faith and then the use of faith; the actual use of it, in appropriating the light, and then the Spirit of sonship.

P.L. Would the expression, "In that hour" in Matthew 18:1, immediately following the word, "give it to them for me and thee", Matthew 17:27, mean that it is the hour of sonship?

J.T. I would say that is the principle. Sonship had arrived in the incarnation, for it is not simply redemption, but up to Christ. Galatians 3:22 - 26, reads, "the scripture has shut up all things under sin, that the promise, on the principle of faith of Jesus Christ, should be given to those that believe. But before faith came, we were guarded

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under law, shut up to faith which was about to be revealed. So that the law has been our tutor up to Christ", (that is up to the incarnation), "that we might be justified on the principle of faith. But, faith having come, we are no longer under a tutor; for ye are all God's sons by faith in Christ Jesus". The meaning of "faith having come", however, has to be laid hold of, in addition to the thought of light which was there in the presence of the Son in the fulness of time, so that chapter 4 amplifies this and says, "when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son", "that we might receive sonship". Galatians 4:4,5.

Ques. Having the Spirit of sonship would bring us into the reality of it.

J.T. Yes, it would affect us inwardly, but light as to the mind of God precedes that, it came in through the incarnation which terminated the period of bondmanship or bondage. It is a question of an era come in according to God in the advent of Christ, and all that I think is intended to throw light on the dispensation and to help souls in laying hold of sonship. The principle applies at all times, but as soon as one has faith it is appropriated.

Ques. You mean it is included in the gospel?

J.T. I would say that. It is to lift our souls in the illumination that belongs to our dispensation, because time enters into it. Matthew 18 brings in the assembly in its authoritative function, and the idea is, that as believing in Christ and the gospel there should be liberty of soul in view of whatever may follow in that chapter. All our transactions should be in liberty, that the principle of sonship may be there, even although we may fail in the spirit of sonship.

Ques. Is that why Paul begins the epistle to the Romans with "the glad tidings of his Son" Romans 1:9 -- is that the light of it?

J.T. I suppose that is the idea.

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W.W. I notice that Galatians 3:22 says, "the scripture has shut up all things under sin, that the promise, on the principle of faith of Jesus Christ, should be given to those that believe"; then, in Galatians 3:26, "ye are all God's sons by faith in Christ Jesus". In the first case it is in connection with "Jesus Christ" and the second with "Christ Jesus". What is the significance of that?

J.T. Well, Jesus Christ is the order of man, I would say; Christ Jesus is the anointed Man, it is Jesus anointed.

We have to make room for the order of man in Christ, and then that that Man is anointed. Although we may not, perhaps, be sensible of the Spirit of adoption, we have light which affords help to us though we may not have the consciousness; in fact it helps us into the consciousness of sonship; that is to say, the thing is there for the pleasure of God. The testimony has emerged from the period of bondage into the period of sonship.

F.J.F. Is it suggestive that the Lord brought up a fish that was not bound by any dispensation when it was a question of paying the tax?

J.T. I suppose we may think of that; He was the Creator. All these things enter into the wonderful period we are in, and it ought to help young people although they may not be conscious of sonship, to see that we are in the period of sonship. So the Lord specified as to the fish, that Peter should take the money and pay the tax. The Creator was there and was acting. The light was there and intended to affect Peter and all others who came into touch with the Lord, that it was the period of sonship.

Ques. Would the Spirit of sonship suggest that the soul was in the enjoyment of sonship?

J.T. Well, in the measure in which one was suitable for it. There are certain qualifications for the reception of the Spirit which the rights of God require, and when the Spirit comes in it is not simply that the person believes he has the Spirit, but he is affected immediately

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by the Spirit. The best illustration I can furnish at the moment is the company in Cornelius' house. Much had happened; Cornelius was the subject of the work of God before, and he had built up a memorial for himself in heaven, yet he had not received the Spirit. Peter came and Cornelius said, "We are all present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God". Acts 10:33, A goodly number evidently had gathered in his house, and Peter began to preach, and, as he spoke, we are told, "the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were hearing the word"; Acts 10:44;not 'all those who believed', but "all those who were hearing the word"; that is to say, the period of sonship had come, and now the Holy Spirit Himself came in, but the period of sonship was there already.

E.C.M. Would that link up with Galatians 2:2, where the apostle says, "I live by faith, the faith of the Son of God, who has loved me, and given himself for me"?

J.T. That is saying a good deal, of course. The faith of the Son of God is a characteristic statement, and then the love of the Son of God for Paul in giving Himself for Paul. All that goes very far into christianity, almost to the limit of it, you might say, but to understand the fact that we are in the era of sonship is the thing that may help us now.

Ques. Are you stressing the fact of sonship in Christ which means that God is not operating on a lower level?

J.T. Yes.

Ques. So in Matthew 2:15, it says, "Out of Egypt have I called my son"; then at the baptism He is declared to be the Son. Would that set forth what marked the fulness of the time?

J.T. Yes, the Spirit came in at the baptism, but sonship was there before. "That holy thing", Gabriel says, "which shall be born shall be called Son of God", Luke 1:35. Then the Spirit came down on that man in the form of a dove, so that John the baptist says, "I saw, and bare record, that this is the Son of God", John 1:34.

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The full thought of sonship was in Him, but then the light of it was there for others, not yet entered into, but Matthew 17 would show that the thing was there.

G.C.S. Was this high level also in mind at Damascus when Paul began to preach that Jesus was the Son of God?

J.T. Just so.

C.G. Do I understand that the light of sonship was there when Christ came, but on our part faith is necessary as we receive the glad tidings?

J.T. The fact that the light of sonship was there is important for we are in the environment of it. Time will bring in the full thought, but we are in the environment of it and so is every person in whom God is working.

C.G. We receive sonship as we believe what is presented in the glad tidings with faith on our part.

J.T. Well, faith is necessary, but at the same time we are constituted equal to further thoughts than they had in the Old Testament, sonship having come in in Christ. It required redemption, of course, but there was something there which heaven had brought out as regards man, and that was sonship. The presence of Christ effected something beyond what was in the Old Testament. There was a gradual coming into the full thought of christianity and the presence of Christ involved that He was a Son. The remarks made as to Matthew 17 showed it was in the Lord's mind and would enter into His conversation with the disciples to fit them for the great matters that were in hand. When He went to heaven all would be consummated, but there was something more than was current at that time, for sonship had come in in Christ.

Rem. And it was an advance on the previous dispensation; for then the time had not arrived which the Father had fixed.

R.D. Had the Father given Peter the light of sonship?

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J.T. As far as he could take it in, and Peter was capable of taking in things. The Lord had to reprove them in Mark 16, but immediately He says, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the glad tidings to all the creation". Mark 16:15.

F.B. Has sonship in mind the thought of liberty as in contrast to the bondage that had gone before?

J.T. Surely that liberty was there in the disciples. It was more than ever David had.

Rem. What David did is brought in as an example of the liberty they had when they went into the corn fields.

J.T. Yes. The Lord went into the corn fields, the disciples went further, showing that they were taking things in. The idea of sonship is there. John says, "I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God". John 1:34. The light of sonship was there; whoever came into touch with it, it was there, and so it is now even before young people get the Spirit; it is a great matter that they should know that it is a time of sonship, and it ought to help them even before they get the Spirit.

P.L. "Let my son go, that he may serve me". Exodus 4:23. Was that liberating light with persons?

J.T. Yes. That was a national thought, of course. How many of the Israelites laid hold of it, is a question, but still it was there. But the Son was here Himself and imparting the liberty and joy of sonship, for it was in Himself. It ought to have affected everybody who came into contact with Christ.

H.F.N. How does that link on with "If the Son", "shall set you free, ye shall be really free"? John 8:36.

J.T. Well, that chapter announces what we are speaking of; sonship as a truth would set them free and it was doing it even then. So even now before people get the Spirit this great fact of sonship as a principle ought to help them, that it is the period of it, there is nothing less in the mind of God for us than that.

H.F.N. Would you raise with people the question as to whether they have received the Spirit? Paul raised it

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with the Ephesians, when bringing in the great light of the dispensation.

J.T. I would say that. "Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye had believed?" Acts 19:2 But then, if these men had followed John's ministry they would have understood that the Messiah was the Son of God, and that His presence implied that sonship was available. They were not ready, they did not even know the Spirit had come, but then Apollos did not say that; it is said of him "knowing only the baptism of John", Acts 18:25. He was ready for more, and Aquila and Priscilla were able to give him more. These facts are intended to liberate young people as they apprehend that they are in the time of sonship. God had fixed it, and the Spirit is here too for them and the Lord is here for them. The fixity of the time, and the presence of the Spirit are two things, but they synchronise. The fixed time of sonship had come before the Spirit was given.

F.B. Would the incident at the end of Luke 15 illustrate the thought of sonship in God's mind? "This my son was dead and has come to life, was lost and has been found". Luke 15:24.

J.T. Quite so, I would go with that fully.

B.B. Would you say this era closes with the rapture?

J.T. I would think so; the rapture finishes it, and then it becomes a question of sight, for Thomas said he would not believe unless he saw, and I believe the period of sight will immediately come with the introduction of the millennium. The thing will be there; it is a question of time.

Ques. This would be the greatest era, would it?

J.T. It is indeed the greatest era.

F.J.F. Do you think where it says in Acts 20 that many lights were burning, that would be an allusion to persons there in the spirit of sonship?

J.T. Well, they were in the upper chamber. The persons who were there accompanying Paul would be

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representative of the idea. Paul was there and had a great deal to say; he had much to say, I believe, about the Lord's supper, for they had come together to partake of that and Paul discoursed at length. I have no doubt what he had in his mind was that there was much to be learnt about the Lord's supper. No doubt sonship would need more attention too.

Ques. Is it a question of following the light?

J.T. Just so, I would say that, the light that is shining. John says, "The true light already shines"; 1 John 2:8; that is a comprehensive word.

Rem. That does not depend on our apprehension of it.

J.T. No. What young people need is to be awakened to the character of the dispensation so that they should be ready for the very greatest things. Presently, as the millennium comes in, the line of truth will be lowered, but now we are dealing with heavenly things.

G.W.B. Would the three divisions of time in Matthew 1, concluding with the "carrying away of Babylon unto the Christ" Matthew 1:17, bear on what you have in mind?

J.T. I would think so. It was from Abraham to Christ. I think it is well to bring that up, for it is a question of what was possible as that period from Abraham to Christ was reached, for Joseph, the last of the line up to Christ, is there called "son of David". But the Christ was personally there and things attaching to Him were there and it was a question of understanding what was there. So time has to do with all these things -- the end of the dispensation, as it says.

J.Tr. Would the word in Ephesians help, "Arise, shine, for thy light is come"? Isaiah 60:1

J.T. Yes.

F.J.F. Could you present the light of sonship in the glad tidings?

J.T. By all means; it is very important we should do so. In Romans Christ is declared to be Son of God with

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power by resurrection of the dead, and the beginning of that epistle has all this in mind. "Paul, bondman of Jesus Christ, a called apostle, separated to God's glad tidings (which he had before promised by his prophets in holy writings) concerning his Son (come of David's seed according to flesh, marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by resurrection of the dead) Jesus Christ our Lord: by whom we have received grace and apostleship in behalf of his name, for obedience of faith among all the nations, among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ". Romans 1:1 - 6.

J.C.T. There is nothing less in mind than that we should be conformed to the image of His Son.

J.T. I think that is the thing to keep in mind in speaking to young souls; we might say we are speaking in the time of sonship and sonship is for you. I have known it for long and it has supported me always; one would say I would like to know more of that and the glad tidings would teach us more.

Ques. Is it the antidote to apostasy?

J.T. Just so.

E.C.M. Paul preached in the synagogue that Jesus was the Son of God; it was the light to govern the dispensation.

J.T. Just so. Paul said, "it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen", Galatians 1:15,16, and that was the first thing he did.

Rem. Our part being as sons of the free woman.

J.T. Yes, and that is a metropolitan idea. That is to say, we have come into the light of a system in heaven, for that is what the free woman means. "Jerusalem above is free, which is our mother". Galatians 4:26. It is a great illuminating thought and it belongs to christianity and especially enters into this epistle.

F.J.F. So would we have the liberty of God's house as

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we understand that? I have noticed a son coming into a house, he just sits anywhere, if he wants to.

J.T. Yes, so the Lord's remark, "Then are the sons free"; Matthew 17:26; they belong to the house.

Ques. The Lord says in John 17:22, "the glory which thou hast given me I have given them". Does that go further than what you have in mind?

J.T. Yes, that is verse 22; then read verse 24.

Rem. "As to those whom thou hast given me, I desire that where I am they also may be with me, that they may behold my glory which thou hast given me, for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world". John 17:24.

J.T. So that verse 22 is the glory of sonship; that, of course, involves the Spirit, but the Lord says He had given the glory to the disciples.

Rem. I wanted to be clear whether you would say it involves the Spirit, or if it was the communication of light.

J.T. As to verse 22, I think the glory the Lord had given them was the glory of sonship; it belonged to Him and He gave it to them. That would involve the Spirit, of course, but that chapter is dealing with things as including abstractly the whole of christianity.

F.J.F. And the Lord is speaking anticipatively.

J.T. Yes. John 17 was the last of His great discourses and was the unfolding abstractly or anticipatively of the whole of christianity?

Ques. Are we inclined to pay too much attention to the functioning side of sonship, and not to think enough of the constitutional side?

J.T. That is good. The constitutional side is the thing. So it says, "we have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father, full of grace and truth". John 1:14. We come into it in that way according to John; he had already said that as many as received Christ had the right, or title, to be children of God, which is another matter, but it is a collateral matter. They are entitled to

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take the place of children, and I believe it is in keeping with John, for it is a question of what is brought out here in testimony. With Paul it is a question of what is brought into heaven. Paul places us in heaven; but John brings out everything here in testimony. So in John we have the right to take the place of children, hence he says, "See what love the Father has given to us, that we should be called the children of God", 1 John 3:1, instead of saying it is the glory of sonship, it speaks of children, of the glory of children, what we are down here before men.

Ques. Did not F.E.R. say that in John's ministry sonship was in Christ? That is in keeping with what you have said, that John's ministry presents sonship as seen in Christ, and we are in the children's place. But in Paul we come into sonship by adoption.

J.T. That is good, so Paul's ministry is to take us to heaven.

C.S.M. Which is greater, the thought of children or sons?

J.T. Sons. Children is a more limited thought; it is more what we are down here, "Now are we children of God, and what we shall be has not yet been manifested". 1 John 3:2.

P.L. Does children suggest a need with us, and sons more a need with God?

J.T. Yes. Children is a question of the care and love of the Father bestowed on us -- I need all that down here; but sonship is a heavenly thought.

F.J.F. As children our derivation is of God.

J.T. Yes -- born of God; whereas as sons we are adopted.

A.M. What is the difference between sons and heirs?

J.T. I think heirship is a question of dignity too; it is to add to our position here. We have the Spirit, the earnest of it. We have not the full thought yet, but we are heirs, the instrumentality of God Himself is in it, for He constitutes us heirs. It is a wide thought, for it extends back to the creation; we being heirs of God. He

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has constituted us that, and we are heirs because we are sons. We are heirs of God; it is a matter of title, then the earnest of the Spirit is the support of the title; the earnest is the income by which you carry on till the full thought comes.

The Lord's portion is His people; we are His inheritance. We are the inheritance of God ourselves, but that is another thing from our getting the inheritance. God Himself is the One who has made us heirs -- "through God".

A.M. Does not God impress us with the immensity of the wealth that is at the disposal of the sons?

J.T. I think that is what is meant. It is to give us strength in our sods for what is presented to us.

So, coming on now to Galatians 4, we end up with the free woman; that is to say, the great metropolitan idea. It begins with the allegory of which we have read, but first the apostle says, "Be as I am", Galatians 4:12, meaning that he was no more a son than they were. He would be as to enjoyment, but as to fact he is no more than they are. So he says, "Be as I am, for I also am as ye, brethren". Galatians 4:12. Then he gives us the allegory, and says, "these are two covenants" -- not 'the two covenants', for there are others, but "two covenants", "one from mount Sinai, gendering to bondage, which is Hagar. For Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which is now, for she is in bondage with her children". Galatians 4:24,25. That is the state of the Jews now; "but the Jerusalem above is free", Galatians 4:26, and that refers to christianity. It is a great metropolitan idea, but it is presently to come out in glory, coming down out of heaven having the glory of God. That is intended to affect all of us now, and we are to understand that we are all Sons.

P.L. Is there a mutual respect in that expression, "Be as I am, for I also am as ye", Galatians 4:12, flowing from this holy and common dignity?

J.T. So that you can say to any person of whom you

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are assured that he is a subject of the work of God, 'You are as I am; you are a son and I am a son'; that is really what is implied. A person who is a subject of the work of God, is a son, "by faith in Christ Jesus"; Galatians 3:26; he is in the age of sonship and it applies to him. It is just a question of his receiving the Spirit, for the Spirit has to be received; sonship is a matter of light, but the Spirit is a divine Person.

P.L. So "Ye are sons of Jehovah your God", Deuteronomy 14:1, is a challenge for holy separation.

J.T. Just so. It links on with what we have been saying in measure, showing how certain things in the Old Testament run into the New and can be applied too.

H.W. S. Would you say the consciousness of sonship is connected with presence of the Holy Spirit?

J.T. Sonship, as we have been speaking of it, is a great principle or fact; it is a question of God's mind at the present time for any person in whom He is working; but the light would hardly hold, it could hardly continue, without the presence of the Holy Spirit, the dispensation could not continue without it. However great the light we must have the Spirit in us for the full realisation of the light.

Rem. You mean that sonship is one of the great objective facts of christianity.

J.T. That is just what I am saying; whereas "Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye had believed", Acts 19:2, refers not to a principle, but to a Person. The reception of the Spirit is bound to have a far greater effect than the light of sonship, which would die out if we did not have the Holy Spirit. Hence the great importance of giving place to the Holy Spirit.

Ques. What are the conditions that lead to the reception of the Spirit?

J.T. Well, if we take the facts in Acts 19, Paul preached the gospel to those twelve men and one might say, Did they get the Spirit? They did not. Paul laid his hands on

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them and then they got the Spirit, showing how accurate we have to be with the truth, especially with the application of it. So Paul laid his hands on these twelve men and then they got the Spirit.

Rem. You have the idea of personal contact in mind.

J.T. Personal contact with divine Persons and contact with the saints too, for Paul had to make contact with these men and then they got the Spirit. Christianity involves the assembly, the great system we come into, the Spirit operating in it, and we get the Spirit, but what we get is already here. He does not come down from heaven on each of us; He is here, but here as a divine Person, and the contact is in those who have Him.

E.C.M. One who had received the light of sonship would be moved, as the Lord suggests in Luke 11 to ask the Father that He would give the Holy Spirit. Would such an one ask?

J.T. I would say so, hence that chapter is so full. It is where the Lord is seen praying, and one says to Him, "Lord teach us to pray", Luke 11:1, not me, but "teach us"; it is thus that the light of christianity spreads, it is not only for individuals. The Lord immediately teaches them and He goes on to say, "how much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him"? Luke 11:13. If we were as desirous of this as we are of other things, we would ask the Father and He would give the Spirit. There could be nothing greater than this.

G.I. Is that why John says, "our fellowship is indeed with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ"? 1 John 1:3.

J.T. Just so, showing that John's epistle contemplates the idea of contact; "that which we contemplated, and our hands handled". 1 John 1:1. The idea of contact is in that verse, in the sense of fellowship. Fellowship means a common part in something, and we have common part with one another, but the principle in John's epistle is first that the apostles had fellowship with the Father and the Son. The apostles had a fellowship of their own,

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John says, "our fellowship is indeed with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ". 1 John 1:3. That is not ordinary christian fellowship, it is apostolic fellowship.

Ques. Do you think the time of enjoyment of this fellowship in its fullest sense is at the Supper?

J.T. Well, quite so. I would say that the Lord's supper is subjectively the centre of things. That is what we come into; it is in our hands, so to speak, to be administered.

F.B. The Lord says, "he shall receive of mine and shall announce it to you", John 16:14, -- does that involve sonship?

J.T. I suppose so; it is a question of the office and ministry of the Spirit, what He does for us; how great, how extensive, the ministry of the Spirit is. "He shall guide you into all the truth". John 16:13.

Ques. Were you going to say any more about the motherhood of Jerusalem above?

J.T. Only to bring out the greatness of the thought of God, what we are coming into. "Jerusalem above", "our mother". Galatians 4:26. She is coming down from God out of heaven, showing what a system we are occupied with and what we shall have part in, for it is said that the assembly is growing "to a holy temple in the Lord". Ephesians 2:21. Not that it is that, it is growing to that, meaning that the consummation is in the millennium. It contemplates the assembly as coming down from God out of heaven and that she has the glory of God. I am speaking of the presentation as we get it in Revelation 21. The second verse speaks of "the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband", Revelation 21:2, but from verse 9 it speaks of the holy city coming down to illuminate all, and presenting the great thought of the administration. The idea of administration is conveyed constantly in the second part of the chapter. The beginning of the chapter refers to the end of the millennium, after its completion.

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The assembly has all the light of God with her and serves in communicating and imparting it, spreading it abroad, to make things plain to the universe.

Rem. That is to be known now during the whole present period.

P.L. Promoting the unity of the faith in regard to the truth, and constitutionally we move in the light and power of sonship.

J.T. I think we see that in the words, "If any one think to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor the assemblies of God", 1 Corinthians 11:16. The assemblies of God have the light and they have no sympathy with contention. The order of the light is seen there, for Paul set up the order of the assembly, the mystery was committed to him; not one assembly on earth but assemblies, and they begin with Acts 14 where Paul and Barnabas set up elders in each assembly, who would look after the order of the local assemblies.

L.P.M. What about the expression "free woman"?

J.T. The full thought of the assembly is there under a female figure.

Ques. Could we have a word on the injunction, "Cast out the maid servant". Galatians 4:30. Is that an injunction on us to do something?

J.T. Yes, this illustrates how the Old Testament can be used; it is a quotation from Sarah, whose words are quoted, but it is a feminine thought, and the word was "Hearken unto Sarah thy wife" and, by extension, it is for us to hearken to the assembly, and if a man does not, he is not fit for fellowship.

Ques. Does sonship go through to eternity?

J.T. It does. God is bringing many sons to glory, He is bringing them there for Himself. The greatest light is with the assembly, and all the previous dispensations merge into ours. We begin with the twelve apostles. Christianity begins with them, so the converts "persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles", Acts 2:42,

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not David, nor Moses, nor Abraham, but the twelve apostles. That is the beginning of christianity; then the apostle Paul comes in as an elect vessel bringing out the great secrets or inwardness of things for us.

A.M. Would rejoicing or exultation be more in evidence if we were in the good of sonship? I was thinking of the Lord speaking of Abraham rejoicing to see His day, and Isaiah 54 says, "Exult, thou barren". Paul and Silas in prison were singing. Were they not in the gain of sonship there though in bondage?

J.T. Yes, that is most interesting; to think of what they were suffering, yet in prayer they sang praises to God and the prisoners heard; that showed the superiority and power of christianity over all opposition, even the most intense suffering.

Ques. Referring to our brother's question as to whether sonship goes through to eternity, John says in his epistle, "What we shall be has not yet been manifested". 1 John 3:2. Would you help as to that?

J.T. It goes on to say, "we know that if it is manifested we shall be like him". 1 John 3:2. Now if we look at Philippians 3 there is a good connection as to it. "Our commonwealth", that is, living associations, as the note says, the associations of life, "has its existence in the heavens, from which also we await the Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour, who shall transform our body of humiliation into conformity to his body of glory"; Philippians 3:20,21; that is not His body of resurrection. His body was raised, of course, and was seen, according to Acts 1, on earth for forty days before the Lord went up to heaven; but we have an added thought, His body of glory, not His raised body, but His body of glory, and you could hardly think of anything greater than that; it goes into the eternal state.

Ques. Does it link with John saying, "we shall see him as he is"? 1 John 3:2.

J.T. Yes, so John links up with Paul in that respect. Paul says, "his body of glory". Philippians 3:21. It is not simply His

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body that was here for forty days after He rose, but His body of glory; that is Christ's body of glory.

Rem. So the fulness of sonship involves what is in a glorified Christ.

J.T. Yes, so how great it is and how glorious!

B.B. When Paul says, "He appeared to me also", 1 Corinthians 15:8, in what form would that have been?

J.T. I should think it would be His body of glory.

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THE SPIRIT IN WHICH THE TESTIMONY IS CONTINUED

John 20:19 - 23; Genesis 24:61 - 67

J.T. It is thought that in looking at these scriptures, we shall see the way John's ministry tends toward the testimony. In chapter 20 we have not only facts relative to the heavenly position, which is in mind also, but the Lord speaks of sending forth the disciples, saying, "Peace be to you: as the Father sent me forth, I also send you. And having said this, he breathed into them, and says to them, Receive the Holy Spirit: whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them; whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained". John 20:21 - 23. That implies that the intent is not immediate access or ascent to heaven, but continuance here in testimony. In the sense in which the Lord was sent forth, so He sends the disciples forth, and then He breathes on them in that connection, saying, "Receive the Holy Spirit", John 20:22, and adds the power to remit sins and to retain sins as if the whole testimonial position was in mind, rather than the translation to heaven. This latter is now imminent, although the bearing of the teaching even now is testimonial.

In Genesis 24 it is thought that the service of Isaac is seen similarly because he led Rebecca into his mother's tent. Sarah's tent would indicate the position of Israel in testimony, but occupied by the assembly, only the conditions at the outset of our dispensation involved that the testimony to the Jews was in mind. Sarah's tent is not the position of testimony to the gentiles, it is rather what was continued, as the Holy Spirit came down, particularly to the Jews. It is thought that these lines of truth will help us and especially enable us to see the place the assembly has, and firstly in the testimony to the Jews, as in the early chapters of the Acts. It is thought, in keeping with all this, that Abraham represents the

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full heavenly side of the position, not Isaac, although he also is occupying the heavenly position, because in chapter 22 it is not said that he came down with his father and the young men, to Beer-sheba; it is as if he remained on high. Rebecca being mentioned at the end of the chapter. In the end of chapter 24, Isaac takes her into his mother's tent and loves her as his spouse. It is thought that John's ministry, as enhancing and implementing Paul, will be clarified as we look at these lines of truth. It is a question of life and the place life has in the testimony.

L.P.M. Does the reference to the week and the first of it enter into the matter as connected with things here?

J.T. Yes, and it is a wholly new beginning, it is not a continuation from Moses, it is a wholly new beginning. So that the Spirit having come in in the Acts the apostles have the leading place in teaching. Moses is not alluded to, nor the prophets, they come in later, of course, as augmenting what was begun at Pentecost, but Pentecost began by itself, it is a wholly new beginning. And those who came into it by conversion persevered in the apostles' teaching and fellowship. So that the apostles' teaching has the first place in everything now; the personnel of the ministry are the apostles, and those that came in after are in connection with them.

Ques. Will you enlarge a little on the thought of the testimony?

J.T. Well, just to bring out the added things after verse 19 in John 20, that the Lord breathed into the disciples and said to them, "as the Father sent me forth, I also send you". John 20:21. It is not simply that they would be given the Spirit and fitted for heaven, but that they would remain here in testimony, and all that would be dependent on what the Lord thought. "If I will", it is said later; that is, in chapter 21. If John should remain, what was that to Peter? The inference is that there was a continual testimonial position, depending on what the Lord might decide; there would be nothing fixed, and so

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the breathing into the disciples and then the authority to remit sins.

A.M. Does the reference to John the baptist in this gospel help in this matter? The other gospels speak about him coming, but in John he is "a man sent from God", John 1:6.

J.T. Well, I think it would, because the idea of being sent implies a commission, and it is seen here in the Lord's words, "as the Father sent me forth, I also send you". John 20:21. And then the further commission, "whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them; whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained". John 20:23. It is on the same line right through.

Ques. What is the force of being sent here? Is it the sending from earth or sending from heaven?

J.T. Sending from earth where they were. Even as the Son of God was sent from earth; it is never said that He was sent from heaven, as far as I know. The distinction to be kept in mind, however, is that the Spirit is said to be sent; but the Lord Himself personally came; His dignity seems to be specially kept in mind and guarded. It is said, however, that He was sent, but that would be from earth. The position is that the Son of God has come, He has come down from heaven to earth; that would be His own doing, but as come here He is sent forth; taken into the position of one in service.

J.H. Is what is testimonial living and in the hands of the Spirit?

J.T. Well, quite so. The idea, I am sure, is just that; the Lord breathed into them, which would indicate the peculiar intimacy that John's ministry implies. John gives the more intimate character of the Lord's ministry than the other evangelists, especially beginning with chapter 13 to the end of chapter 17; and then as the Lord rose, and after He had been speaking to Mary, He "came and stood in the midst". John 20:19. Luke 24:36 says He "stood in their midst", but John says He "came and stood in the midst". John 20:19.

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"The doors were shut where the disciples were", John 20:19, showing that there is certain inwardness and privacy, in what is recorded. I think that these considerations will help us as to the general trend of the ministry of Paul and the ministry of John; the latter being intended to augment the former, by bringing out the great thought of life, and the further greater thought still of the Lord's Person, the deity of Christ and then what He became, He "became flesh", it was His own action.

F.J.F. At the end of John 15 we read, that the Holy Spirit sent from the Father would bear witness concerning Christ, and then it says "and ye too bear witness, because ye are with me from the beginning". John 15:27. Is the apostles' testimony that of the Spirit, carried out through them, or are they distinct?

J.T. Well, that passage implies that the Spirit is given subsequent to the apostles' commission. The idea of a commission, not the mere historical fact, is involved in "ye also shall bear witness". The Spirit Himself would bear witness, but they also would bear witness; that is apostolic, for they were commissioned. They were with the Lord from the beginning, and had that peculiar position, and the ability too, as qualified through such instruction as the Lord could give and did give them. The Spirit would bear witness, of course, throughout the whole dispensation; and that would also imply such additions as Paul, and Barnabas; the Spirit's own liberties would be seen in that. Hence we see much of the Spirit's liberty in Paul and Barnabas being sent out. "Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them"; Acts 13:2; that was additional to the twelve.

Ques. Is what you are speaking of calculated to bring in what is heavenly in the testimony to be manifested in life here?

J.T. That is good, that is just what I think.

G.C.S. What does it suggest, that the Lord should say, "Peace be to you"?

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J.T. Well, there is a double peace you will observe. This is the Lord's own personal peace. He had said "I leave peace with you, I give my peace to you"; John 14:27. But we have an additional thought in verse 21 of chapter 20; "Jesus said therefore again to them, Peace be to you". John 20:21. He had already said that when He came in (verse 19) and then He says it again, which would indicate that they were ready for what He had in mind. He would confirm it to them, and so, "Jesus said therefore again to them, Peace be to you". John 20:21. It was the personal thought of the Lord, and His breathing was His own action. John would stress the personal dignity of Christ in all that he presents here. He says much more about what the Lord said immediately before His death, than the other evangelists do. They would see, not simply that He was going to heaven, but that He was personally able to do that, to ascend. It is said in Luke 19:38, "Peace in heaven, and glory in the highest". That would be in view of His ascension. A state of peace would ensue, and undoubtedly the assembly would replace the devil, because the Lord had said, "I beheld Satan as lightning falling out of heaven", Luke 10:18, assuring all that there would be peace in heaven; there would be peace in heaven before there was peace on earth, for Satan having come down from heaven, there would be a terrible time, as the book of Revelation indicates. So that the position now is what is in heaven, because Christ has gone in there.

E.T.S. So that the Lord's ascension would be behind all this?

J.T. Just so, the message to Mary was not simply the statement of the fact "I ascend", but gives the character of the thing. On the strength of that He speaks of sending them out in a testimonial sense as we have been saying, and what was read from Genesis confirms all this, because it is the position in Sarah's tent.

C. G. What is seen in the assembly today is the reflex of what is in heaven, giving it a heavenly character.

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J.T. Well, exactly, as Ephesians would show us. The gifts have come down from Christ gone beyond all the heavens, intensifying the idea of the testimony being from heaven.

J.H. What is the bearing of peace in relation to this matter of the testimony?

J.T. Well, it is over against what is going on abroad politically, "saying Peace, peace! when there is no peace"; Jeremiah 6:14; there is not any likelihood of it either, save that God modifies things in order to enable us to go through. The peace given to the apostles and peace in heaven would mean that the assembly is established in that, showing that the eternal state of things has already begun in the assembly.

L.P.M. Would that be confirmed by the reference in Corinthians to God being the author of peace in all the assemblies of the saints? "If any one think to be contentious, we have no such custom", 1 Corinthians 11:16.

J.T. Quite so. Hence the great urgency of the brethren being of one mind, not by mere consent, but by the power of the Spirit, because the Spirit would promote unity amongst us.

T.S.C. Would Exodus 24 illustrate what you have in mind? I was thinking of the dignity and liberty of the heavenly side coming in before the testimony side in the wilderness that follows.

J.T. Very good. We begin with Exodus 19; we get there the law, the primary thought of God, what was given from Sinai, and all that entered into that; the priests, although they are not named, and the restrictions made on the mount, so that the law should have its needed authority, and we might say its terrors, according to Hebrews 12. But then we have the instructions of Exodus 21 and chapters 22 and 23, pointing to the wilderness position. The angel that would continue with the people right through would not suffer any lawlessness, he would control things. Then Moses and Aaron, Nadab and

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Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel are directed to go up; Jehovah directs them to go up, without saying exactly where, but in the idea of going up, we have the idea of ascension. Thus the present position typically should come about; that is to say, a position from heaven. In connection with the going up, we have the twelve pillars set up, and offerings offered through the youths of Israel, and a covenant ratified through basons of blood; an enormous quantity of blood so as to bring out how thoroughly the matter is done on the principle of death. Then they go up, and they see the God of Israel, but Moses is to go up by himself. Joshua was to accompany him, but that is simply an accompanying element; the idea is that the mediator was to go up and be with God, and he was with God for forty days and forty nights, and he got the pattern there, the pattern of the tabernacle. All that follows from chapter 25 is to bring out the truth of the tabernacle, and what it was in the wilderness, pointing to the present time typically. I think all that enters into what we are saying, because in Exodus 20:24 Jehovah said, "in all places where I shall make my name to be remembered, I will come unto thee, and bless thee". That would show that it alludes to the present time, for the idea of the Lord coming to us is found in John's gospel.

Ques. Will you help us as to the authority given to the disciples to remit sins? It is after the Lord breathes into them.

J.T. Well, I think the Lord intended to impart His Spirit to them. It is very much like Philippians, the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Philippians is a wonderful epistle for the spirit of things, the spirit of christianity. The Spirit is given, I would say, in John 20, in a personal sense, to bring out the personal influence of Christ in christianity, added to all that is said about the Spirit coming in in Acts 2, where it is accompanied with great power and tongues of fire, so as to assert the divine

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authority in the gift of the Spirit. But the personal touch in John 20 is an added thought, I would say, to bring out the personal part that the Lord Jesus has in the administration, and it has much to do with our relations with one another, because the Spirit of Christ introduced into the disciples (they are not called the apostles) would affect them in relation to one another in the spirit of grace, so that all might go on together, and not allow sin to interfere. We have the means thus of dealing with sin, of remitting it, so that we might go on more freely and happily in the dispensation into which we have come. I believe all this is in keeping with John's ministry, as augmenting Paul. I do not know whether that bears on what you have in mind.

Rem. It is 'sins', not sin, individual sins.

J.T. That is right, individual sins, showing what means we have in our care meetings and the like to deal with matters by the Lord's authority; to deal with them in the Spirit of Christ in the way He would do things.

F.J.F. That is only for those inside, would you say?

J.T. I would think so, it is not a general proclamation to the world such as the gospel implies. I would say it is rather for the last days. The Lord in Matthew 18:22 in keeping with this, says, "I say not to thee until seven times, but until seventy times seven". That is grace as also in Luke, but John would enhance all that, in bringing in the personal influence of Christ, His personal influence in christianity.

A.S.T. Would you say that the power of life is evident in this ability to remit or to retain?

J.T. Just so. You might say it is a commission without restrictions by the Lord, there are no restrictions added to it. "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them". John 20:23.

F.J.F. It would show they had the mind of Christ?

J.T. Quite so; and so the Corinthian epistles would help us from Paul's side of things. In the second epistle

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we see how he came in to deal with the incestuous man that had been delivered to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. The end was reached long before the judgment seat of Christ, it was reached too early for the Corinthians, they were not ready for it. Paul in urging them to forgive, is in accord with this idea in John's gospel. It is the Spirit of Christ acting in Paul, the personal influence of Christ in christianity.

J.D. Would that be borne out in His showing His hands and side?

J.T. I think it would, and no doubt that involves the assembly, although John does not mention it, it is not his line, it is the persons who form it. But the fact that the Lord had been into death in that touching way, that He could show His hands, reminding us what He could do for us; "the love of Christ constrains us", 2 Corinthians 5:14, what He would do for us and what He suffered for us. So that we are reminded of Adam and Eve, the figure goes back to that, to the beginning of things in manhood. And so the truth as to Christ and the assembly, especially in these last days, is intended to affect all the services of the saints. Mark reports that the Lord said, "Go into all the world, and preach the glad tidings to all the creation". Mark 16:15. That is a very wide commission, but Paul would regulate us in that service, and John would also. The word of God is the word of God, and every scripture is inspired of God, but our service is to be governed by the principles that may be involved in any matter, the levitical principles that may be involved. There is the broad general overture to men, but the levitical principles come in to regulate us, to modify things, and to make our service more effective.

F.J.F. To direct the service?

J.T. I think so, and keep it within bounds, because there are restrictions in the divine commission in Mark. When Paul was sent out, he was restricted by the Holy Spirit; he was not to go to such and such a place, showing that the levitical principles governed the service even

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although it be a worldwide commission. God has a right to modify a general commission; time may necessitate a modification.

J.I. In Mark they were told to "Go into all the world", Mark 16:15, but did they go?

J.T. The inauguration of christianity was not done in a day, as some might think. It took years to effect all that was intended by the Lord, so that changes came about, and long after the twelve were appointed (and He had appointed them Himself), the Lord says of Saul of Tarsus, "he is an elect vessel unto me", Acts 9:15, a special vessel. Paul is then told to do certain things, and in Acts 16, as we have already remarked, he is directed by the Spirit of Jesus. We have to notice that the Spirit of Jesus suffered them not to go to Bithynia. The question is, therefore, Did this modification imply that certain sections of the world would be eliminated in some sense, from the general commission? That appears to be the truth. The book of Revelation would show that the general position as to the gospel had failed, and the Lord is changing His attitude; in fact it was He who received the revelation that God gave to Him, long after these other things happened, and other things had to happen, and they are happening yet. So there is modification after modification. We have now come to a day of small things, and that has to be recognised, nevertheless the Lord says, personally to the assembly, as to the opposers that "I will cause that they", "shall know that I have loved thee". Revelation 3:9. The Lord retains and asserts His personal love for the assembly, and He will make those who say they are Jews and are not to come and worship before her feet, that they may know "that I have loved thee". Revelation 3:9. These things have all come in in later years.

A.S.T. Would you say that John was in the acceptance of that in the isle of Patmos? He was prepared for all that it involved.

J.T. Quite so; he was restricted, for he

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"was in the island called Patmos for the word of God and the testimony of Jesus". Revelation 1:9. It was not for the gospel exactly, but for the testimony of Jesus, "the word of God and the testimony of Jesus". Revelation 1:9. Mark says "they, going forth, preached everywhere". Mark 16:20. Jesus "was taken up into heaven, and sat at the right hand of God", Mark 16:19, as if it were a deliberative position, and His servants went everywhere, and this was immediately after He had rebuked them for their unbelief, showing that the unbelief could not be very deep. The Lord knew how deep it was, and how far they could be trusted, notwithstanding the fact that there was unbelief there. Having rebuked them, He immediately says, "Go into all the world, and preach the glad tidings to all the creation". Mark 16:15. God is not limiting the message; it is to the creation, but then the other things, as we were saying, that came in through Paul and through John in the Apocalypse have to be recognised.

H.W. Are there modifications suggested in Philip being sent southward and Paul westward?

J.T. Just so. Philip was not sent at all at first; it says, that he went down to Samaria and preached the Christ, showing that we have at times to do what we can, what our hands find to do, and then the Lord will own it, if it is successful. And Philip was but partially successful, for he did not discern Simon Magus; at the same time the Spirit of God took him on, though not at first; the angel took him on at first, and then the Spirit took him on later, and raptured him, and he arrives at Caesarea, reaching the point that is in mind in Peter's commission to the gentiles.

R.G.B. Would Numbers 10 help as to the living movements of the testimony? You have the movement of the cloud, and then the silver trumpet, and then the personal movement of the ark moving aside from the directions that had been given?

J.T. That is good. Moses' mind was different, great as he was; it was on lower lines. He said to Hobab,

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"come with us, and we will do thee good", "and thou wilt be to us for eyes". Numbers 10:29,31. Hobab declined, saying he would depart to his own land; and then the ark came out, as if to testify to the love of Christ, in type. The ark came out of its place, because it was in the centre of the position, in the centre of the tribes as if to be protected in dignity, but it came out itself, conveying to us what the love of Christ will do, probably indicating now what we are enjoying in these last days, that the love of Christ is acting for us. So the ark went out and led the way for them three days in the wilderness. I think that is very important, especially because of what we are dealing with now, what the Lord is doing for us, and what He is ready to do, and will do, to the end. "Having loved his own who were in the world, loved them to the end". John 13:1. That is through everything.

F.J.F. Will the proper, you might say, and highest testimony of the assembly be when she comes out as the heavenly city, but in the meantime she is occupying Israel's position?

J.T. Well, I do not know that she is, I am not so sure that I would say that, because Paul gave up the Jewish position in the Acts, saying, "lo, we turn to the nations", Acts 13:46, chapter 14; and, "the salvation of God has been sent to the nations, they also will hear it", Acts 28:28. I would say that the position now is purely gentile, the Colossian position, purely gentile.

L.P.M. Is that the bearing of the expression, in regard to the kingdom of God at the end of the Acts, Paul preaching things concerning that, unhinderedly?

J.T. Just so, and the statement, the quotation from Isaiah 6, in that passage in Acts 28 is all the more striking and solemn, because it is God sending strong delusion on the Jews.

G.C.S. "Feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace". Ephesians 6:15. Would that be the condition in which we should go out to men?

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J.T. Quite so, that is the full height of the Ephesian position.

F.J.F. I was wondering whether the assembly now fulfils what God had in mind in regard to Israel; I mean what is suggested in Sarah's tent.

J.T. Well, so long as it pleased God to retain them in that position, but Stephen's martyrdom was a message sent back to the Lord by the Jews, that they would not have him; he is rejected. You have that in Acts 7; we have already alluded to chapter 8 which meant that the Spirit moved toward the south, but moved in a man that had no commission; I mean Philip. He undertook what he could do, and the Spirit of God took him on as if to honour him, as if he had purchased to himself a good degree. Then he is found at Azotus, and later in Acts 21 we learn that he has four daughters who prophesy; he was honoured in his house. Acts 9 brings in Paul, of whom the Lord had said, "this man is an elect vessel to me", Acts 9:15, and we learn that he immediately "preached Jesus that he is the Son of God"; Acts 9:20; that is to say, the ground of the testimony now clearly is gentile, such as Colossians indicates. The position is clearly separated from Judaism. So that Stephen's murder, and then Herod's being eaten with worms, and then Paul's action in Bar-jesus being made blind for a season, all point to the rejection for the moment of the Jewish position. God is now going on with the gentiles, as Paul said, and they will receive the gospel. So that the gentile world, the western world, is receiving the truth at least in principle; there are many who are receiving it, but very few Jews, hardly any. Ephesians itself indicates that the gentile assembly is viewed as growing into "a holy temple in the Lord; in whom ye also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit"; Ephesians 2:21,22; ye also, referring to the assembly viewed as of the gentiles.

R.G.B. Does the introduction of the gifts in Ephesians 4, to which you have referred, show that the ministry and

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service are to be carried on in the full light of union, and the heavenly position?

J.T. Yes, they have come down from heaven, indeed from beyond all the heavens, showing how much enters into the idea of gift, the endowment of the assembly, because they have to be looked at as showing how the assembly is endowed.

E.T.S. Would you give us a little help on the remitting and the retaining of sins?

J.T. Well, I could not illustrate it better than in what I have already alluded to in the two epistles of Paul, the incestuous man is first bound and delivered to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, but he is repenting early; Paul enlarges on the evidence of his repentance, and the second epistle is written to bring about forgiveness in the assembly; that they should forgive him fully and freely. I do not know what we could say more clearly than that; those two epistles are really the illustration of what is said about remitting and retaining sins.

E.W.C. Would it be an assembly action as much as withdrawing?

J.T. It would indeed. We have come to that, maybe, in the past 25 years, for the Lord has helped us; indeed, it was much earlier, but especially in the last 25 years the brethren have come to the right understanding of withdrawing from evil. "Let every one who names the name of the Lord withdraw from iniquity", 2 Timothy 2:19. Instead of assuming to have power publicly to put away, as the early christians did, and as at Corinth, it is more seemly for us, because of the great breakdown and the many who have turned aside and are still away from us, who have become lost to us, and we have not all the saints together anyway; it is more seemly for us, when we have to deal with sins or sin, to withdraw, until the person judges himself, but then the underlying attitude of the assembly is remission. In withdrawing we are not making too much of the sin, but would act so as to

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encourage people to be able to say that grace reigns in the assembly, the spirit of grace reigns. We are not enlarging on the guilt, we are rather thinking of what belongs to the assembly, the grace of forgiveness. Paul says in Galatians 6, "if even a man be taken in some fault, ye who are spiritual restore such a one", Galatians 6:1, restore him.

A.M. Does John 21 show how the Lord Himself would deal with sin? Sin in the seven disciples who went fishing, and then sin in Peter?

J.T. He does not say a word about the sin. He does not say a word to them, as He meets them, about their unfaithfulness in going fishing -- that is what you have in mind?

A.M. Yes, the spirit in which things are done.

J.T. Beautiful. He does not say one word; in fact, His approach to them is, "Children, have ye anything to eat"? John 21:5. He is establishing the principle, that He is the everlasting Father. I believe that is the idea, the Lord was acting as a father, even in the end of John, because chapter 21 is really a sort of appendix to illustrate how the gentiles are brought in.

A.M-h. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 2:8, "Wherefore I exhort you to assure him of your love"; and then he says, "if I have forgiven anything, it is for your sakes in the person of Christ". 2 Corinthians 2:10. Would that give the character of forgiveness?

J.T. I am glad you brought that out, it is a beautiful passage dealing with what is now before us; it confirms fully the Spirit of Christ Himself. Some of them were hesitating, and it is very current too. We know so little how to deal with sin and sins. The idea is to release the brethren so that they shall go on, shall go on with us.

A.M-h. Would it also be in keeping with the dignity of the dispensation, that God is not retaining sins? Surely that should come into the assembly?

J.T. Just so, it is the same in Luke 7, having nothing

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to pay "he forgave both of them"; Luke 7:42; that is not modified. That spirit should remain with us.

G.C.S. Does the epistle to Philemon enlarge on that with a view to the forgiveness of Onesimus? Paul says, "if he have wronged thee anything or owe anything to thee, put this to my account". Philemon 1:18. Would that be our attitude as appreciating the death of Christ to which all our accounts were put and answered before God.

J.T. Yes, very good; so that we come to what is proper to the assembly really in these matters, the spirit of it, readiness to forgive, readiness to perceive any evidence of repentance; "repentance towards God, and faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ". Acts 20:21.

F.J.F. Would you look for brokenness in such a one?

J.T. Yes, quite so; we must look for that, it would not be righteous to forgive unless there were that, only that you should approach the person in the attitude of forgiveness; it is a question of priestliness with us. I think the Lord intended that, in view of His Supper, the saints should be all priests. He has constituted us priests, so as to give us power to act in forgiveness. The priest would be forgiving.

A.J.H. As to this matter of forgiveness, are we assuming that there has been a governmental action on the part of the assembly and now it is a question of dealing with the matter in priestly grace? Then what is to be our attitude to that person as having been withdrawn from?

J.T. Well, I have heard it said that the person should be left to himself until he judges himself, but I do not think that is right. I think the priest is so constituted by the Lord in order to accentuate the idea of grace; the priest is ready to forgive, and I believe Paul was exercising a priestly attitude in all that he wrote about the man that had been put away, so that the assembly in Corinth should learn grace, learn to forgive. We must keep in mind that the priest is always supposed to be present

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among the saints. The priest, or priests, being present it cannot be said that the person under discipline is not to be visited until there is some evidence of brokenness. An assembly action having taken place, the matter rests with the priests (involving the assembly of course), who are regarded as having discernment and authority in every matter, see Deuteronomy 21:5. Chapters 13 and 14 of Leviticus suppose, that without any action being taken on the part of the leper, he is spoken to by the priest. Even if there is no evidence of repentance, the priest may approach him with a view to bringing about repentance, but it must be the priest. Galatians 6:1 says: "ye who are spiritual"; that is, the priests, not anyone. Matthew 18:17 -- "let him be to thee as one of the nations and a tax-gatherer" refers to the brother trespassed against, not necessarily viewed as a priest. The above remarks do not ignore that all true christians are priests, as stated in 1 Peter 2:5, but the term "spiritual" in Galatians 6:1, clearly refers to qualifications required for the restoration of saints where sin has occurred.

E.W.P. It says in John, that the Lord was "full of grace and truth". John 1:14.

J.T. Good, full of it, "full of grace and truth", John 1:14, as over against Moses, "the law was given by Moses: grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ". John 1:17.

F.T. And is the same attitude continued in God Himself in 2 Corinthians 5:19, "how that God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not reckoning to them their offences"?

J.T. Quite so.

J.I. The person should not be left to anyone to visit him.

J.T. I would say that; not anyone; the brethren should be sure that the persons deputed to look after matters are really priests.

J.I. It should not be an individual exercise but visiting as authorised from the assembly?

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J.T. Well, I would be afraid of that, because I think the priest ought to be able to act at any time, I believe he is so constituted that he has power to act at any time. We are made "priests unto God" according to the first chapter of Revelation, and "priests of God and of the Christ" in Revelation 20:6. I think the Lord is fortifying the position, in surrounding Himself with priests, thus the element of grace is to prevail.

Rem. The leper is brought to the priest in Leviticus 14; evidently there were those taking an interest in the leper.

J.T. Quite so, that is good, because it helps us. And the priest is always supposed to be there in Leviticus. It is not said, 'If there is a priest', but "he shall be brought to the priest", or "he shall be seen by the priest", or "he shall come unto the priest". The priest is always supposed to be there. We can understand that in christianity, because Christ is always there, and the Spirit of Christ is here on the earth in the assembly. The position is fortified in that way by grace, so that the assembly should be augmented, and carry on its testimony.

A.S.T. "Ye who are spiritual" Galatians 6:1, means that the restoring is put on individuals, is it not?

J.T. Well, that is just exactly what it is. "If even a man be taken in some fault". Galatians 6:1. The idea is not that we take him in it, find him in it, but that he is overtaken by it, that he is just in it, and it is found out. Well, let him that is spiritual restore; "ye who are spiritual restore such a one", "considering thyself lest thou also be tempted" Galatians 6:1.

E.A.K. Would confidence underlie the matter and would that be promoted if the priest acting in that way takes other persons into his confidence in his action?

J.T. Well, just so; that is the great advantage of priesthood. The Spirit of God was not hasty to anoint Aaron and his sons; they are not immediately called priests as introduced to us in the scripture; their official

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position is stated in chapter 28, when they have suitable clothes. Earlier the priest is there, of course, but we are not told who he was, the element was there. In Exodus 21:5 the Hebrew servant is brought forward saying, "I love my master, my wife, and my children, I will not go free", and it is subsequent to that that we get the priesthood. In Aaron and his sons, the position is adorned; they are the very acme of the priesthood, the real priesthood as in christianity, in the sense of love, exercised in forgiveness to men and in serving God. Deuteronomy laid that down that everything must be determined by the word of the Levite, which meant the priest, because the Levite was a priest in Deuteronomy.

Ques. Would you make clear how we bring the man to the priest?

J.T. Well, I think it shows what was there in Israel, that there was somebody to do that, but the priest is the one that determines everything, and he is never supposed to be absent.

L.P.M. News may come indicating that something was moving in the condition of the man that would warrant the attention of the priest? Something in the way of a sovereign action recovering him from his leprosy?

J.T. Quite so, and then as to the man in Corinth, clearly Paul got news of the change in the man, he makes so much of it, and he was ready to forgive, as they forgave, and he urges them to do it.

A.C.S.P. Will these features be found as the assembly is in the enjoyment of the love of Christ as seen in Rebecca taken by Isaac? The scripture says, "he took Rebecca".

J.T. I would say that.

Ques. The goodness of God leads to repentance. Would the Father seeing the prodigal return, and running out to meet him, show that there is gladness as to it?

J.T. Quite so. Luke 15 is on the highest level. The

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word is, "Bring out the best robe"; Luke 15:22; things are the best; it is the heavenly side, really, in that passage, hence the music and the dancing. It is to bring out the wealth that there is immediately, to meet need as discerned. The movement in the prodigal is there, and the Father ran to meet him, and kissed him caressingly. It is all to bring out the very height of the position, and I believe it would lead up to Ephesians.

Ques. If one under assembly discipline is coming to the meetings, how would you regard him?

J.T. Well, that would be a matter for the priest to discern. As to the assembly, the priests are supposed to be there. It would be a matter for them to see to, not to wait and let all the movement be on his side. The priest would go to him, or he may be brought to the priest. Things are never to be left unattended or uncared for in the assembly period; we are never driven to the wall. The priest is empowered to do things, and there are those that should bring people to the priest, so that the matter should be solved; things should not be allowed to drag on. Another thing is confidence, confidence in the assembly, as to matters of discipline; we must have confidence in our brethren, in the priests, because if they are of the assembly they are worthy of our confidence; all assembly people are worthy of our confidence.

J.I. How would you take the scripture in Matthew 18:22 and the reference to forgiving "seventy times seven", as to serious matters, one after another?

J.T. One after the other; well, it shows the excess of grace; how grace is there, grace reigning, it is unmodified, the word reign is unmodified. There is no limited monarchy at all in christianity; it is a monarchy, but it is unlimited; it is unlimited in Christ, He acts in unlimited grace; that is really the truth. So we can go as often as we will, because the thought is restoration, recovery.

W.S. James in his epistle speaks of saving a soul from death and covering a multitude of sins.

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J.T. Quite so; that illustrates all we have been saying; he that does it, saves a soul from death and covers a multitude of sins; that is a fine action, and it is entirely in accord with heaven, and the dispensation of grace. Let us make much of the assembly; that is another thing and to have confidence in it.

W.B.T. In Leviticus the priest goes and looks two or three times. Would that help us as to liberty on the part of the priest to consider the matter?

J.T. Quite so; liberty in the priesthood. If we look at Leviticus 13 and 14 we shall be impressed by the frequency of the use of the word priest in both chapters.

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THE ASSEMBLY AND THE TEMPLE OF GOD

Galatians 4:25 - 31; Ephesians 2:11 - 22

J.T. The passage in Galatians is read to call attention to the statement in verse 26, "Jerusalem above is free, which is our mother", Galatians 4:26, that there may be opportunity to speak together of Jerusalem in this sense, "Jerusalem above". There is in this a reference to a feature of the dispensation which may be called metropolitanism, not in any bad sense, but as ordered of God at the beginning, because of the need of centralisation then as the testimony moved forward into its full position of characterising this dispensation. And then the passage in Ephesians is read because it contains a significant statement that the assembly grows "to a holy temple in the Lord". Ephesians 2:21. It is hoped that this phase of the truth will enable us to speak of the power of revelation, of meeting current needs and questions as to the truth, these involving inquiry, as the scripture says, "to inquire of him in his temple". Psalm 27:4. It is thought that these two passages may be linked together profitably and that it may be seen further that both passages bear on the millennium. The Galatian side bears on it as to the assembly's function in that day, in the sense of rule and administration, and the Ephesian side shows the assembly's function as the temple, affording opportunity for inquiry. So that the whole millennial position and kingdom may be understood by those who are in it, that is those in the earthly side of it, for the heavenly side is occupied by the assembly which has the mind of God. As regards the metropolitan feature of the truth, which is in no sense to be discredited, it is to be remarked that it began with Pentecostal times, and continued on until probably chapter 14 of the book of Acts, where eldership is formally recognised by the appointment of such

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through the service of apostles, Barnabas and Paul. In Acts 9:31, the authorities give variations of the Greek word, but if it be assemblies as in the New Translation, it would mean that the order of local assemblies, governed by eldership had begun, so that the testimony should go forward freely, and that the government of God should be seen in it as in this provisional time.

Ques. Is it the thought that we should be brought into the liberty connected with our mother?

J.T. That is clearly the thought; the main thought indeed in the epistle to the Galatians is to establish christian liberty, but there is more than that in mind now; there is the character of the government of the assembly in the early days of its existence down here, what the mind of God was in that, and what there is in the contrast of the present time of local assemblies. We should inquire what that contrast may afford in the way of instruction for us, because Paul says, "thus I ordain in all the assemblies", 1 Corinthians 7:17, meaning they were all to be regulated by the same principles.

L.P.M. Does the title, "the assemblies of Galatia" 1 Corinthians 16:1, indicate that a certain group had lost some features of the truth, and Paul is ministering in view of that, so that a certain area is in mind?

J.T. Quite so, the province of Galatia apparently was particularly affected, and Paul uses extremely strong language to rebuke the error that they allowed themselves to fall into.

Ques. Are you looking at local assemblies as the children of the Jerusalem above, rather than looking at us individually?

J.T. Well, that is the idea. Of course, each child has an individuality, you mean. There is individuality among the children, that they might "stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free". Galatians 5:1. It is thought that this liberty flows out of the assembly's relation with Christ above, and the Spirit here. On the

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other hand, that out of which the saints, that is to say, gentiles, were delivered at that time was paganism. In the Roman Empire the religious idea had a central position in mind and government; all worked out from a central position. That position was abolished, but was just replaced by what is now known as Roman Catholicism, which is the most sorrowful thing in the whole universe, because it is aimed at the replacement of the whole system of christianity, whereas Jerusalem above is to maintain christianity, the word above meaning simply that it is above morally. It is not called heavenly Jerusalem here in Galatians, but "Jerusalem above" implying moral elevation, whereas the Romish system is moral degradation, the subject of the judgment of God at any time.

S.McC. In regard to metropolitanism as it appears in Jerusalem in relation to the ministry of the twelve, would you say something as to the change-over in the introduction of Paul's ministry?

J.T. Paul is the author of the epistle to the Galatians and his ministry enters into it peculiarly. He says God "was pleased to reveal his Son in me, that I may announce him as glad tidings among the nations", Galatians 1:16, and sonship in Christ as revealed to Paul implied "Jerusalem above", and the liberty that christianity has set up. If we revert back to Paul's advent, he it was who with Barnabas set up the system that we are dealing with. Acts 9 tells us of the conversion of Paul, and how he announced Jesus as the Son of God, which involved the very kernel of the whole matter of the liberty of christianity. So that what we are speaking of really awaited the presence of Paul. What the twelve were going on with was, of course, according to God, and it is said that those that were converted "persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers", Acts 2:42, meaning that they were subject to the ministry of the twelve, but under that ministry it was in the main the

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assembly at Jerusalem, that is the feature of the assembly that is in mind. The word assembly generally meant that assembly at Jerusalem. So that as soon as Paul is commissioned, as he was according to Acts 13, the idea of assemblies appeared. Passing over chapter 9, if we look at chapter 14:23, which has been already alluded to, we shall see the formal recognition of assemblies, the plural idea. It is said there "having chosen them elders in each assembly, having prayed with fastings, they committed them to the Lord, on whom they had believed". Acts 14:23. This, I think, is the first reference to the formal appointment of elders, and they are in each assembly, not in the assembly at Jerusalem, not specially there, but in each assembly elsewhere.

P.H.H. Would you think that the man who was made to walk in the earlier part of chapter 14 gives a kind of idea how each individual assembly must now be able to comport itself?

J.T. That is a helpful suggestion, I would say, and remark at the same time that the man had never walked; that is not said of the man in chapter 3, you will remember; this man had never walked. It was a gentile position, and of course the gentile position is in view in Paul's appointment, therefore the walk of the saints must be taken into account, in fact the very word is implied in the word way, as governing the early polity of the assembly, as I might call it. It begins with Paul really, he was against it, he persecuted those that were of it, but he was himself converted in order to establish the idea of the way, that is to say, the way of God. The way of God implies local assemblies, that is to say, the testimony has taken that form, the Spirit of God operating in it, and the epistles to Corinth are specially in mind to open up the idea of the way of God as it worked out under Paul in the gentile world.

Rem. Paul says to the Galatians, "Walk in the Spirit", Galatians 5:16, they were not only to start with that walk in the Spirit,

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but they were to continue in it to the end, without any fleshly influence ever diverting them from the path.

J.T. Very good, they would not fulfil the lusts of the flesh if they did that. That chapter gives us the marks of the Spirit, the fruit of the Spirit, a nine-branched tree, you might say, as to fruit borne by the Spirit, which would work out in the unity of the assemblies. In 1 Corinthians 1, immediately after verse 9, it is said that the Corinthian saints were disunited, they were not governed by the Spirit.

G.H.S.P. Is it noticeable that immediately after the reference to the assemblies in the plural in chapter 9, it says that they "were increased through the comfort of the Holy Spirit"? Acts 9:31.

J.T. Yes, if we assume that the original has the word assemblies, but, of course, the truth of what you mean would be there, anyway; whereas in chapter 14 a leading feature of the truth governing the assemblies is unity, the unity of the Spirit, as Ephesians teaches, to be kept by us "in the uniting bond of peace". Ephesians 4:3. If the Spirit is recognised in that sense, there will be peace and comfort, the comfort of the Holy Spirit.

P.H.H. Are we to understand then, that the assemblies as set up under Paul's ministry, are like his children; he refers to himself in Thessalonians as a nursing mother? Is that your thought, that the children in this chapter in Galatians are to be the children of the Jerusalem above? Do I understand that it works out through Paul?

J.T. I would go fully with that, in that Paul's teaching is mainly to establish unity and to maintain it. That is the great need now in all the assemblies of the brethren, that there should be practical unity. And so the metropolitan thought has to be transferred to heaven to get right now, to get the idea of it. It certainly is not in the Romish system, nor in the Anglican system, nor in the Presbyterian system, nor in any others. It is in Jerusalem

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above, which means what is morally elevated above all these things; and Paul's ministry is to maintain that and carry it through. So that he says, "thus I ordain in all the assemblies". 1 Corinthians 7:17. There is no idea of one assembly holding one thought and another another, as if independency in any way ruled amongst us.

Ques. As regards the metropolitan idea, is it in your mind that the metropolis is transferred from earth to heaven at the death of Stephen?

J.T. That is what I would say; the death of Stephen implied that the Jewish system was being set aside, not wholly yet, but nigh to it, and that would make room for the assembly as it is constituted for the moment to maintain the testimony, and the idea of the transfer from earth is a thing to be thought of. It has already been remarked that the thought is not exactly heaven, but above; that is to bring out the moral superiority of the assembly's position.

Rem. As you get in Colossians 3:1, "seek the things which are above", morally elevated and removed from every fleshly and worldly thought.

J.T. Just so, "where the Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God". Colossians 3:1.

L.P.M. Would you say a little more as to the expression, "thus I ordain in all the assemblies". 1 Corinthians 7:17.

J.T. Well, one has found sorrowfully within recent years, when the matter of collections for the saints arose, the special collection for the need of the brethren, for the saints, that a great divergence of thought existed; local assemblies adopted their own principles and moved in them. I am not accusing any, but I know what I am saying is so, and, of course, this expression in 1 Corinthians 7:17 applies in a case like that, "thus I ordain in all the assemblies"; that is to say, that the assemblies should be all governed by the same principles. That should go without saying, but it does not always.

J.S.E. Does that make metropolitanism attractive as

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coming in this epistle, where the letter is addressed to so many assemblies? Would that help us to see that we all are to be governed by the same principles?

J.T. Well, I think that is so. You move about and no doubt you know something about what I have been remarking on. The apostle in writing this letter says, "All the brethren with me", Galatians 1:2, meaning that he was m the truth himself; and he was asserting it, he was asserting that he had the truth and that he was in it himself, and that the brethren that were with him were in it too; and so he associated with him as many as he could; no doubt, those that were with him. So that these Galatian saints should conform to the truth and come back to the liberty which they were leaving.

S.McC. In Ephesians we have reference in regard to the work of the ministry to the unity of the faith, but would what we have in Galatians here involve what is constitutional, "Jerusalem above is free, which is our mother". Galatians 4:26. There has been much light coming to us in the ministry as to what is right, but do you think, perhaps, that we have been defective along the line of what is constitutional in relation to Paul's ministry here in Galatians?

J.T. Constitutional is a good word in this connection, and it certainly is in accord with the idea of mother. The thought of mother city or the metropolis, is found with David; he took from the Philistines Metheg-ha-ammah (2 Samuel 8:1) which meant the bridle of the mother city, the metropolis. That is to teach us that where legal principles or worldly principles are adopted, the saints are apt to be captivated, and David called attention to that, just as in 2 Samuel 20:19 the wise woman of Abel spoke of "a mother in Israel". So it is that mothers and fathers as they are spoken of in the Scriptures, such as Paul and John and others including sisters, are, as you said, constitutional. The influence of such involves a family feeling extending to a whole province, or a whole

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country. Then we must have authority, and hence Paul's letter here asserts authority and uses very strong language where worldly principles are adopted, which would include independency. For evidently the Galatians were adopting thoughts of legality that were independent.

A.M. Are you suggesting that the principle of casting out is to be acted on if necessary in the assembly?

J.T. I would say so. In John's second epistle it is said, "He that abides in the doctrine, he has both the Father and the Son"; 2 John 1:9; this is said to "the elect lady", which is apropos of what we are saying. She is a sister. "He that abides in the doctrine, he has both the Father and the Son. If any one come to you, and bring not this doctrine, do not receive him into the house, and greet him not; for he who greets him partakes in his wicked works". 2 John 1:9 - 11. So that I would say that the idea of casting out is there, casting out what is wrong, and, of course, the bond-woman represented the legal system, and her son, which was Ishmael, also represented it; both together represented it, and they were to be cast out. Sarah, therefore, is the type we have to go by, her word to Abraham is called scripture, "what says the scripture". Galatians 4:30.

Rem. Hagar was a poor thing constitutionally and only produced a persecutor. But the scripture says, "Cast it out".

J.T. Quite so. So here "he that was born according to flesh persecuted him that was born according to Spirit". Galatians 4:29. Casting out is quite in order, there is to be no toleration of such things.

A.M. I was not thinking only of casting out persons, of course we know something of that, alas, but of casting out principles if they take root among us.

J.T. Quite so. No doubt that is what Paul had in his mind, that they should refuse these principles that they had already received, more or less.

P.H.H. Do you think "the pattern of Isaac" Galatians 4:28, directs our minds to what is heavenly, so that it is not only

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what is morally above, but now the pure heavenly pattern.

J.T. That is good. I was thinking, following the thought of Isaac in the matter, that after he is seen as offered up in type, Abraham returns to his young men and they go to Beer-Sheba, but Isaac does not come down with him, and that would bear out what you have said, that he really is the heavenly man, but I think the heavenly man in testimony here. Abraham is distinctively the heavenly man, without any qualification, but Isaac, whilst a type of Christ as heavenly, is a type of Christ more active here below in the testimony, in dealing with it, and so he is not said to come down, his father came down, and the young men came down, but it is not said that Isaac came down, and that would point to the heavenly. As the sequel proceeds, he was heavenly in this sense, in Sarah's tent, continuing in that, Sarah's tent representing where the testimony was at the beginning, and the thought was to preserve it and what Sarah represented, meaning that she represented the heavenly, the Jerusalem above. She died, of course, but still the truth was there, and, as come down, he and Rebecca were in that tent and the testimony was to be continued in it, and the Spirit came into that, and so we have in Isaac one who resolutely maintained the wells, what Abraham brought in. It is a question of the Spirit, Jerusalem above is maintained here in the power of the Spirit.

A.J.G. Are you referring to Isaac's activity in digging again the wells that Abraham had dug?

J.T. Yes, that is where he shines. There is not much to be said of Isaac after that. God is pleased to preserve him, but he shines in that, in that he was in Sarah's tent and he re-established the wells that the Philistines had stopped up. That is in principle what this epistle is. The devil's work in Galatia was to stop up the wells; that is to say, to hinder the Spirit, and Paul is opening up the truth of the Spirit.

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Ques. Would you say that Isaac's great concern was digging and not striving? He continued patiently and stedfastly in regard to the Spirit.

J.T. Quite so, until he came to Rehoboth, which means broadways. That is to say, God gives liberty to His people, and this epistle is to establish that, to establish the liberty in which Christ sets us free.

Ques. It refers to "children of promise", then "born according to Spirit", and then "children of the free woman", Galatians 4:28,29,31. Would the first bring in the thought of counsel and sovereignty, and the second the idea of constitution to which we have referred, while the last would bring in character?

J.T. Very good. Those three things would help us. I thought that the idea of the Jerusalem above having come before us, and developed somewhat, we might now proceed to the Ephesian side of our subject, but not to overlook the question of metropolitanism in the heavenly side, the good sense, nor yet to overlook the thing in its wickedness, because we are faced with it now toward the end of the dispensation. God has said much in the book of Revelation as to it, first under the head of Jezebel, and then the commercial system, and in chapter 19 we have the assembly in its wifely character, not exactly the bride, as in the first part of chapter 21, but the wifely character, the Lamb's wife. The Lord would support the mother in that sense, in her wifely care for the Lord's interests, and how much these interests may be guarded and maintained in a wifely way, according to what is said in Proverbs. We have already spoken of her heavenly relation, or her dignity and elevation, but then too there is the book of Proverbs, in which the wisdom of Solomon is worked out and developed in the virtuous woman, who cares for the interests of her husband, and it seems to me that that is another feature that should be kept in our minds, so that there is abundant care for the Lord's interests in the present time. The Spirit of God is

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greatly supporting special meetings, such as these, in all parts of the earth where the saints are, and the question is whether these meetings may not interfere with the home feature, the home front as we may call it, and whether the Lord's interests are guarded, for there is constant necessity for those who are elders and have the place of elders, looking after the government of the assembly. Are these interests of the Lord in the local assemblies properly fostered and cared for? I believe it is a matter that ought to concern us, whilst not leaving these happy occasions of ministry and fellowship, not leaving them in any sense, but the Lord's interests in the local position are to be cared for, and I think that comes into the wifely side. And then as to the mind of God being opened up to us, whether enough attention is paid to matters that are puzzling the saints, because the saints should not be left puzzled; constantly things come up that are puzzling, whereas the Spirit of God is in the temple. "Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you", (1 Corinthians 3:16) and the assembly grows in that, right on to the millennial day. All these matters will be adjusted in that day, so that the people on the earth will understand what is current; why not now? Why should a brother, for instance, have to write to another at a long distance to get an answer to some question that he does not understand? Why cannot he consult the temple at home? Why cannot things be worked out temple-wise in these matters?

J.S.E. The epistle is addressed to "the saints and faithful in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 1:1) and the general tenor of it is upward on spiritual levels. Would that word imply that they were rightly founded on the metropolitan principle; that is, there was a set line of rule for all the saints wherever they were?

J.T. Very good. So that the Lord says to Ephesus that she had tried those that say they were apostles, and were not, but were liars. The Lord commends Ephesus for

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that, showing that what we are speaking of was there; that is to say, the doctrine was guarded, love was somewhat on the wane, but anyway doctrine was guarded. The dispensation began with the guarding of the doctrine, for the converts persevered "in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles", (Acts 2:42) and I believe that John's ministry is to revive the idea of teaching, which runs right through the gospel of John. The Lord is Himself called Rabbi, or Teacher, at the beginning of John, and Mary Magdalene calls Him Rabboni in chapter 20, showing that she regarded Him as her Teacher. The question is now as to whether we have right teachers, and whether teaching has its proper place amongst us, so that we are not saying what we please. The Scriptures are with us, and every scripture is inspired of God, and profitable, so that we can search things out, and the temple is available to search things out together locally. If there are puzzling things, as there were in Paul's day, the saints wrote to him about them and he answered and wrote to them too, of course, and brethren who can do anything of that kind are ready to do it now, but then the question is, whether the temple is used, or is it lying idle, so to speak. It would seem that the idea of faithfulness at Ephesus, "faithful brethren", would mean they were guarding the doctrine committed to them.

L.P.M. So that the truth of the temple cannot operate in a right sense unless Paul's doctrine is fully received. Would that be right?

J.T. Quite so. "My doctrine", as he puts it, had become a test; not that it would be in every sense, but it was the leading thought in his time. The doctrine that was committed to Paul, the different ministries that were committed to him, we might say, covered the whole of the doctrine of christianity. Therefore, as I was remarking, the home front is of every importance, the local positions are to be kept clarified. Brethren should know what is current, and if they do not know, ask; ask the

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local brethren, in the light of the temple, and ask the Lord to meet every difficulty that is arising.

S.McC. How do you view the temple in Ephesians 2, in contrast to what we have in the first letter to the Corinthians?

J.T. First Corinthians gives the local thought, depending on the Spirit, and so Paul says, "Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you"? (1 Corinthians 3:16) But the other, the one we are dealing with now would allude to growth in the same thought, with a view to the millennium. The thing is going on, it "increases to a holy temple in the Lord", (Ephesians 2:21) the Lord being prominent, which is to be noted. He will, of course, be Lord in the millennial day, and things will be regularised, so to speak. The book of Ezekiel would show what will be current in those days, there will be a temple and that on the earth; but then the heavenly is that which is specially in the mind of God. So that we have such suggestions in the New Testament as persons ruling over five or ten cities in the coming day; that would mean, I apprehend, that the assembly would be used in that sense; individuals of the assembly would be used, and no doubt the millennial kingdom will be regulated and the mind of God will be disclosed and will be available. They will not have the understanding of the assembly, because the assembly will be in heaven; she is already translated, and the all-various wisdom of God is in her, and it is available to the kingdom below, I would say, so that things are not left at all; everything is regulated, although there is evidently a weakening of the general position in the millennium, according to Numbers 29. This is indicated in the number of animals offered as sacrifices; in spite of the reduction of the bullocks as the days passed, the numbers did not go below seven, a figure which holds throughout the chapter.

A.J.G. So that you would say that all the different questions and difficulties that arise in the assembly at

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the present time are intended to develop our knowledge of the temple.

J.T. We seek to work out things in our local positions, but I am afraid that generally the temple is not used as it should be.

Rem. In the wise woman of Abel's day, they said, "Just inquire in Abel", 2 Samuel 20:18. Wisdom was there to deal with a very difficult situation, and everybody bowed to the woman's judgment.

J.T. Quite so. She went round to the people in her wisdom, showing that the local position was looked into and the best use made of it.

Ques. Does that scripture show that the matter of inquiry is dependent on the mother idea? After saying "Just inquire in Abel" she goes on to say, "thou seekest to destroy a city and a mother in Israel", 2 Samuel 20:18,19.

J.T. The mother city is the thing to notice, it is not simply that the wise woman herself was to be destroyed, the city was to be destroyed. Joab was attempting to do it, to meet the situation by destroying the city, but he was amenable to what she said, and the head of the attacking man was thrown over the wall, the matter was met. Some of us were saying recently that things are at times unduly left, whereas they should be finalised. Many things could be easily finalised if the brethren locally come together in dependence on the Lord and wait on Him with the Scriptures in their hands as to any given matter.

P.H.H. Do you think that is why the word temple is used in the opening of the first book of Samuel? There was a poor state of things, but the exercises in a motherly way of Hannah, as referring to the temple, led the way to the man of God and the prophetic ministry coming in to solve questions.

J.T. Very good.

P.H.H. It is said of Samuel that he "was established a

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prophet of Jehovah", (1 Samuel 3:20) and none of his words fell to the ground.

J.T. Very good. I believe that book is the very section of Scripture that God has used in our own times to bring out the idea of prophetic ministry and the great need for it, what we call meetings for ministry, sometimes prophetic. That idea was established in 1 Samuel, so that Saul is reminded by Samuel that the hill of God was in the hands of the Philistines, the hill of God. That was a problem, but it should be overcome. Saul did not overcome it, David alone did it, and therefore what you say is so important, because it is said that it was established that Samuel was a prophet from Dan to Beer-Sheba, and that his words did not fall to the ground. That is, what he would say would be considered and have a place in the hearts of the saints, and if some matter has to be solved, well, look well into what Samuel says, give plenty of scope to it; that is what our prophetic meetings really mean, that the truth is looked into and weighed over and talked over and not left to one or two to handle at a distance, but to handle it in the temple.

E.A.K. Would what has been termed our mid-week city readings come within the scope of what you are saying, having in mind both the thought of the temple and what is prophetic? Would such meetings serve in the light of what you have been saying, in the elucidation of matters relating to the truth, as we are dependent on the Lord and the Spirit? What has been called attention to in relation to the hill of God, would thus strengthen what is of the assembly in a place.

J.T. Therefore the main meetings for the instruction in right doctrine should be mid-week, instead of the Lord's day. I have often thought of that, and often spoken about it, and many have too, and I believe it is well to be thought of. The difficulties of the week, and what affects our spirits in our businesses and the like have to be met in mid-week, not on the Lord's day. The Lord's day

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takes care of itself, so to speak, because it is a favoured day and the Spirit of God has more liberty in it, but the week of responsibility is where the pressure is, and we are apt to be dark about things, and we need illumination. Therefore I would say that the city reading in any given city ought to be mid-week, and it should include all the saints of the city, because it is the best that God has, it is the bill of God, where what He has is the very best in the place, and there ought to be plenty of scope for what there is, what gift there may be, so that the truth may come out. That is my thought about it, and I have often spoken of it. I think it ought to be adopted, that the thought of the hill of God should be understood and acted upon, which I would say is 1 Corinthians 14:23. "If therefore the whole assembly come together in one place", that is, for doctrine, for ministry, not for the Lord's supper but for ministry.

P.L. So that the bastions, you might say, in a militant way of the assembly in the presence of evil are built up in the souls and minds of the saints as beating out the truth together?

J.T. Beating it out, just so. And if there is anybody capable of helping, of course, make plenty of room for him, but it is not a sectional matter, it is an all-round matter in the city, the whole city is involved in it. What would our sub-divisions mean otherwise? Of what value are they if they are not all drawn upon and called into the place, called into the matter of the mid-week meeting?

S.McC. Is there anything against one of the subdivisions giving up what may be called their reading of a sub-divisional character to make room for the working out of this principle of the hill of God during the week?

J.T. But the city reading is the hill of God, and it ought to be so regarded in any city where what God has in the place is all together, on a certain night, when the whole city is represented. God's best is there, as it were,

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in the sense of dealing with matters of difficulty, dealing with any matter, but especially with matters of difficulty.

P.L. So that this character of meeting suggested in 1 Corinthians 14, should be incorporated in the weekly calendar of the assembly in a city; the epistle to the Corinthians having the thought of the week in mind, the first day of the week and so on.

J.T. Yes, the week is in mind exactly, and the first day of the week is the favoured day, it is the day in which God raised Christ from the dead. Think of that entering into that day, the Spirit of God bringing it home to the brethren; it is a time of special favour. The mid-week is not that; we have no Lord's supper on the mid-week days, but we have our Bibles, and we have ourselves, and we have the temple and the Spirit of God and therefore matters ought to be solved; at least there is some ground for the solution of everything on those lines.

L.P.M. Would the school of Tyrannus afford support of that and enter into the matter at all?

J.T. I think it would, because in a school you would look for and expect a thorough investigation of things, a thorough way of learning. It is not optional to go to the meeting; it is imperative that I should go to that meeting and all meetings, of course, but especially the mid-week meeting, because the problems of the moment are to be settled there. The Spirit of God is there to do it.

P.L. In what has been before you, would you say our liberty is safeguarded in Galatians, in jealous watchful love, the Lord's interests safeguarded, and then the truth safeguarded?

J.T. Well, that is what we are endeavouring to bring out, and I think the scriptures that we have before us help in the matter, and the Lord is helping us now, and one would hope that what has been said will remain with us, something of the feature of Samuel's day that the prophet's words did not fall to the ground. Things are not held, you know, very much. We say we have good

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readings and good addresses and that, but how much is carried through and put into effect to meet conditions, to meet difficulties?

P.H.H. Have you in mind that if certain things are in the minds of the brethren, a city reading would be a good place to bring such things forward as are not fully understood?

J.T. I would say that fully; it is a good place, it is intended for that, because if it is the hill of God which the enemy has seized, then there is a weakness and things are not met, if the Philistines are in it the thing is not there, you know. So that we must see to it that there are no Philistines in charge, but rather those that have ability from God to deal with matters are there, that is what I would say. If the position is weak, of course, the next thing is that "we that are strong" (Romans 15:1) take the matter up. Let the strong help; we are not limited. The principle of the assembly is that if there are elders they belong to the locality, but if there are gifts, if there are any persons who have gift from God, they have liberty anywhere, and that is dealt with in 1 Corinthians 12:28, they are set "in the assembly". Whatever there is in the sense of gift, helps and the like, they should be available everywhere, and there is no reason why the nearby meetings should not help or those who have gift in them. It is a mutual time, it is a time for mutual help, and the Lord is with us in this mutual Way.

P.L. Do you think the Lord's utterance, "I must be about my Father's business", Luke 2:49, as having been in the temple at that time would suggest to us the devotion required to take on such strenuous features? It would suggest a temple enquiry?

J.T. Very good, the Lord was here on those lines to look after His Father's business, and if there is anything that concerns the Lord anywhere, those of us who are nearby, or even at a distance, go there. So that the first point made in the passage alluded to in 1 Corinthians 12

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enters into it, as it says, "Now ye are Christ's body, and members in particular. And God has set certain in the assembly", 1 Corinthians 12:27,28. These are gifted men, "first apostles; secondly prophets; thirdly teachers; then miraculous powers; then gifts of healings; helps; governments; kinds of tongues", 1 Corinthians 12:28. God has set them, not in any particular locality, but in the assembly, therefore they have a right of way, so to speak, everywhere, and they are free to go anywhere to lend a hand where it is needed. I think that part ought to be kept in mind with chapter 14 as running with the Lord's supper in chapter 11. I believe that is how the thing is going, that the way of God collectively is on those lines.

P.L. I suppose you would agree that the meeting for ministry would furnish one of those mid-week occasions in a given month?

J.T. It would, because the Spirit of God would be there, you know, and ready for help where it is needed. The mid-week is a convenient term to use as implying the influence of the week, of the ordinary days of a believer, an assembly man; they may be detrimental, for the experiences in them tend against him, and he needs more, support there in view of what is to be contended in assembly matters.

Ques. Do you suggest that this should be every week, or only on occasions when there is a difficult question to settle?

J.T. It is every week. It is what is called a city meeting. We have already mentioned that term, city meeting, and the word must apply even if there be only one meeting in a city, because the difficulty, whatever it may be, in view of the way, the way of God, in view of the government of God, whatever may be, has to be met; and, of course, if there are none but the local people there, the Lord would help them, but there is no reason why persons nearby should not come.

F.P. Peter was called to Joppa. Would that help?

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J.T. Just so.

Ques. Do you regard a reading as answering to 1 Corinthians 14?

J.T. Yes, certainly, in the sense of authoritative teaching there, which there ought to be. If the Spirit of God is there, and gift is there, and even if gift be not there, if the Spirit of God is there, the principle of the temple is there, so that matters may be met.

S.McC. This expression here is, "ye are fellow-citizens of the saints, and of the household of God", Ephesians 2:19. Would that help us in visiting other places, availing ourselves of the liberty that we would have in relation to the "household of God".

J.T. Quite so, the liberty of the house. An elder, of course, is local. His place is in the local position where he is set, they were chosen for a particular assembly, but the gifts that are mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12 are universal, they belong to the whole assembly, they are set in the assembly, not in the local assembly but in the assembly in principle, as a whole.

Ques. Is there any idea of pattern in the Lord when he says, to those who would retain him in one place, "I must preach the glad tidings of the kingdom of God to the other cities also"? Luke 4:43.

J.T. Quite so; other cities. The Lord had in mind what was needed in those other cities.

Ques. Is there any scripture that would help us as to how long an exercise should be continued before a matter is completed? Daniel had to wait 21 days before he got an answer. Sometimes we go on for a long time.

J.T. Some matters go on unduly long, but anyway, even if they do, they have to be met, and it is not exactly a question of waiting for an answer from God, as in the temple, but of finding out what Scripture teaches, and that is what reading meetings are intended for, to end in, that the brethren understand what they are dealing with. The Spirit of God is there to help them.

G.H.S.P. Is that why you have emphasised recently

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the need of the principles of the Bereans receiving the word and then searching the Scriptures daily?

J.T. Quite so, as we have often remarked, that when Paul came to Troas there were seven others who accompanied him, and one of these was a Berean; he was the first one mentioned, implying that if anything came up he would be ready to look into it and see whether Scripture bore on it and what had been said, and so forth. That is to say, the Berean would be a person who would look into matters, and appeal to Scripture, to see whether these things were so.

G.H.S.P. I want to ask again about these single meetings in a place. Do you think it ought to be a concern to us to invite those that can help from other places?

J.T. You have to watch that, of course, and not forget that you have the means in your own hands in this meeting, the temple being here. You might find a thing yourself, or the brethren locally, but anyway, be sure that you consult the local people before you go afield.

Ques. Would that be normal?

J.T. I would think so. The idea of the local assembly is that it is furnished with what is needed to carry on by itself, at the same time recognising the universal position.

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DIVINE SECRETS AND THE TEMPLE OF GOD

Daniel 2:13 - 23; 1 Corinthians 3:16,17

I have in mind at this time to speak of mystery. The greatest thought in the ministry, next to what relates to divine Persons, is the mystery of the assembly, and the hope is, that we shall all be impressed with the need of our knowing something of mystery, and that if we minister the word of God, in preaching or teaching, we should convey that mystery is involved.

The apostle Paul speaks of the mystery of piety, which leads on to what I have been saying, for piety is essential to our understanding of the truth, not mere learning as men speak, but the learning of piety. And so the apostle writes to Timothy so that he or anyone should know how to behave himself in the house of God, "which is the assembly of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth", 1 Timothy 3:15. And then "the mystery of piety (or godliness) is great. God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in the Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among the nations, has been believed on in the world, has been received up in glory", 1 Timothy 3:16. That is a passage that indicates peculiarly what I have in mind; it was written to a young man, one who laboured with Paul and of whom Paul said that he had no one like him, in that he cared with genuine feeling how the saints got on. Hence we may understand that Paul in writing about the truth to his child in the faith, Timotheus, would not fail to include the thought of mystery; not only the mystery of the assembly, but the thought of mystery otherwise seen. As christians, we should not be content to be, as it were, ordinary, for we have what the world has not, and what it does not know, and cannot know. The natural mind of man cannot know the things

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of God, for they are foolishness to him, but the believer can know. Indeed, what the apostle says, concerning our minds, is to show that we have not ordinary ones; we have the physical faculty involved in thinking, even as all men have, more or less, but "we have the mind of Christ", 1 Corinthians 2:16. Christians, therefore, are capable of taking in things according to that mind, and speak of them and think of them according to it; which is an immense matter for us. "We have the mind of Christ", (1 Corinthians 2:16) which involves the kind of thinking faculty that Christ has. So we can understand how we can rise above the ordinary level in treating of matters; even if they be ordinary matters we can treat of them differently to natural men. Our minds are different, and not only different, but holy, and pure. These are words used in designating the mind of the believer, as Peter says, "stir up your pure minds", 2 Peter 3:1. He said that, as he was about to put off his tabernacle; that is, about to die. He wished to stir up the pure minds of the Jewish christians, for his ministry was to the Jews, as Paul's was to the gentiles. Not that either was confined to his particular ministry, because Paul ministered to the Jews, he wrote the epistle to the Hebrews undoubtedly, and Peter ministered to the gentiles too. So that they were not bound to their respective ministries, they were free, as Christ had set them free, in intelligence; they would know what to do, as the need for ministry arose.

The thought before me is that our minds should become accustomed, if not so already, to move on higher levels. As I was saying, Peter speaks of our "pure minds", and hence regards them as above the ordinary way of dealing with matters. We need to avoid letting things out that are sacred and holy, allowing them to run in the current of the natural mind. We see the result of this in Samson, a remarkable servant, I need not say, but one marked by looseness in his service. The Spirit of God moved him, we are told, in the camp of Dan, which

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was his camp, for he belonged to the tribe of Dan; the Spirit of God moved him, which is something that every young brother and sister ought to know, at least, to some degree; to know what it is to be moved by the Spirit of God. The first move is never to be forgotten, when you are consciously moved by the Spirit of God, you will desire another and another, and so, as I said, Samson was stirred or moved, very powerfully too, we are told, in his own camp, the camp of Daniel Much, of course, could be said of him, but I am referring to him now rather to show what should be avoided, and that is looseness of thought and speech, and the tendency of being drawn under the influence of the natural mind. It was his wife (it is a question whether she ever became his wife actually, but she is called his wife) that influenced him considerably for seven days, because he had uttered a riddle which was a mystery. As I have said before, such things, that is, mysteries are not to be scarce with us, or wholly absent with any of us. We should certainly know something about mysteries, the mysteries of God, and if we do know, we should be careful that we do not speak of them in a natural sense and make them the subject of ordinary conversation, for we shall in doing so cause damage by thus reducing them to what is just ordinary, whereas the things of God are not ordinary.

Samson, as I said, allowed himself to be influenced by his wife; it was in regard to some thirty garments, or shirts. The matter was of small consequence, in one sense, and yet in the eyes of the Philistines of much consequence, showing what the natural man is, old and young. The Philistines threatened to burn her father's house and her too, if she dared not to disclose what Samson's riddle meant. She eventually came into possession of the secret, and saved her life and her father's life for the moment, but Samson was lost through disclosing the secret. He made a precious thing a common thing, which we, as I said before, should

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carefully avoid. We are to learn to be spiritual, to be holy, to be pure in our minds; learn to know something of the mysteries of God. We shall, as we cultivate the knowledge of these, be more useful in our services, in our Bible readings and the part we take in them. And so it was that Samson further disclosed his secret to another person, worse than the first, still a Philistine, and he lost his eyes for it, one night in fact he lost his life; God turned it into victory, but still the fact is, that he lost his eyes and lost his life literally, by careless talking, by bowing or submitting to natural influences. However near the persons that influence us, if they are only natural, we must avoid them, or they will damage us. And so I have read this passage in Daniel to work out this thought, and to show that we are within the range, as believers, of spiritual mysteries, which belong to us; and it is for each of us to awake, if we have not awakened, to the fact that we have part, as christians, in these spiritual mysteries, and we are not left to ourselves, because God is pleased to give us companions. We must not be without companionship, but see to it that they are spiritual; otherwise we shall rue it, we shall drop to their level if they are natural, and lose what we have already reached; hence the importance of spiritual companionship.

Now I wish to work out the thought of companionship into the great matter of fellowship. Fellowship is a word that has acquired a great place among spiritual people, a place that it hardly has at all among unspiritual people, and now that it has acquired this place, the thing is to develop it, and see to it that we have suitable companionship. Daniel had companions; he was one of a number, but they are called his companions, and I would now speak to young ones here, and urge the importance of spiritual companionship. If you are to rise to these spiritual levels of which I have spoken, you must have spiritual companions; they too rising with you to the level to which we are called. Paul, as it is said of him,

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came through the upper districts, to Ephesus, which would mean that he was working on a higher level than Apollos. Apollos was at Corinth, we are told, and Paul was at Ephesus. They were both serving in ministry, but one was occupied with the lower, and the other with the higher levels. The lower in that case was itself rising, as also was Paul, but he came to Ephesus on a higher level. Daniel fits in peculiarly with what I am saying; he is the prophet of the last days, the great prophet of the four monarchies which we are dealing with yet; he was a man greatly beloved; heaven said he was greatly beloved. He is tenderly spoken of in his earlier days, holily, tenderly, spoken of; he took care as to his food; he would not be defiled by the king's meat; that is to say, he maintained a level unto which he was called, and so, instead of being among the slain, which he would be if the king had his way, he and his companions were saved.

I speak now of the thing that I have already spoken of, the importance of spiritual companionship, and the keeping with it, not getting below it, but even getting above it. If you set the pace, God will help you, and maintain it; because it is a question of purity and holiness, involving intelligence. So, as I was saying, as to Daniel, it is said that "the decree went forth that the wise men were to be slain…Then Daniel answered with counsel and prudence to Arioch the chief of the king's guard, who had gone forth to slay the wise men of Babylon; he answered and said to Arioch the king's captain, Why is the decree so rigorous from the king? Then Arioch made the thing known to Daniel", Daniel 2:13 - 15. This is what I wanted to read, dear brethren -- "And Daniel went in, and requested of the king that he would give him time, and that he might shew the king the interpretation. Then Daniel went to his house, and made the thing known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions", Daniel 2:16,17. I want you now, dear brethren, to follow this, as I am seeking in a simple way to bring before us what is

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involved in this matter of companionship, spiritual companionship. And the same day he "went to his house", he had companions there, "and made the thing known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions; that they would desire mercies of the God of heaven concerning this secret; that Daniel and his fellows" or companions "should not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon", Daniel 2:17,18. Now I am endeavouring to keep before us this point of companionship, and to show how it may result in the salvation, not only of one of us, or of a few, but the whole testimony of God, because God has not anything less than that in mind. By careful handling of our companionship and all else that goes with it, we may save the position. It needs to be saved, for terrible influences are at work abroad in the world, and they are aiming at the youth. The youth are in mind in what is developing, and so we need such as Daniel and his companions.

I am urging attention to what one man may do, or can do, under God, and what his companions and he, by themselves, can do, not only he himself but with his companions, so God has given us companions. The companions are the brethren; these companions are Christ's too; He calls them His companions; He is anointed with "the oil of gladness above thy companions", Hebrews 1:9. You can see what is involved in the Lord Jesus and His companions, and so as it works down to any one of us, and our companions. It is for us to consider how much we are making of each other, because, to speak plainly and simply, God needs us, He needs every one of us. He can do things, of course, as He did in the creation, by Himself, but what He is doing now is not by Himself. You will understand what I mean. God has established a system in the universe, and He has established a Head to it; the headship of Christ is involved in it, and the Spirit of God is involved in it, and not only are the divine Persons needed in it, but to

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speak simply and rightly, the saints are needed in it, the companions of Christ are needed in it, and so it is a question of what we make of each other. The fellowship becomes a great matter, as we see that we are companions and partners of each other. One of the most baneful things today, and what has been so for many years, is what we rightly speak of as mixed marriages; they disregard this matter of right companionship, and of the holiness that belongs to it; that is, christian companionship, involving the companions of Christ, and our own companions.

Now Daniel, we are told, "went to his house and made the thing known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions; that they would desire mercies of the God of heaven concerning this secret; that Daniel and his fellows" or companions "should not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon", Daniel 2:17,18. I hardly need repeat what I have said, that terrible things are being developed, on the principle of unionism, of systematised unionism. Labour is put on the top of everything. I say that advisedly, and where are we going to be? What is to become of us, dear brethren? Unless we have recourse to this matter of christian companionship, and the absolute refusal of what the devil is building up, we will be down, down and down to miry clay. Whatever men may say about it, I am saying what I know to be so, and it is put to us to refuse the companionship that is abroad in this world. On the other hand, God has those that are His own. We read of the Lord Jesus, having "his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end", John 13:1. However few, He loved them to the end, and He is going to love them still. He is loving us still, but He is looking for what I am saying. He has His companions, He has made His selection, He is securing those whom He will regard as His companions, and He is looking for us all to be in that circle. Of Daniel it is said that he asked his companions to "desire mercies of the God of the heavens concerning this secret", Daniel 2:18.

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Now this secret is what I am speaking of; it is what is in the fellowship, what belongs to Christ's companions, what is involved in the mystery; as over against the mystery of iniquity there is the mystery of piety. There is the mystery called "the assembly", the mystery of God, the mystery of Christ; these are outstanding facts, that we have part in, and it is a question of what use we are making of the part we have in them, and whether we recognise the possibility of overcoming; that is, of keeping the secret, keeping the truth in the sense of mystery; not parading it abroad, as men will, but keeping it in a holy sense, a mysterious sense, and keeping it within the confines of the companionship to which we are called. And so, as I said, Daniel and his companions "desired mercies of the God of the heavens concerning this secret, that Daniel and his companions should not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon", Daniel 2:18. It is a question of a secret, and how we are holding the thing in the fellowship; is it according to God? It is the fellowship of God's Son. Let us think of the magnificence of that. It is the fellowship of His death, and it is the fellowship of the Holy Spirit. These are the three great fellowships spoken of in the two letters to Corinth, and we are all in them, dear brethren. But the point is, what we are making of them, with the end in view that we defeat what the devil is doing. Not that we should set out to be in any public way against what is current in the world but to hold the secret of the thing, to hold it in holiness, as having part in it. As a result of the desires of Daniel and his companions, "Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of the heavens", Daniel 2:19.

Now I want to refer to Daniel's beautiful tribute to God, because it is a time of such tributes, to be rendered by us in the holy fellowship into which we are called. Daniel, I might say, is in the temple of God. He has prayed to God, and that is the point; it shows, that they

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have part in the temple of God. "Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you"? 1 Corinthians 3:16. We can have hope as proceeding thus and be certain too, of reaching this result, that the secret will be made known, the truth that is to be held by us. Daniel having sought out his companions, acquired what was needed, and as soon as he acquired it, he praised God; and the praises that he rendered are as follows, "Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever; For wisdom and might are his. And it is he that changeth times and seasons; He deposeth kings, and setteth up kings; He giveth wisdom to the wise, And knowledge to them that know understanding. It is he that revealeth the deep and secret things; He knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him. I thank thee, and I praise thee, O God of my fathers, who hast given me wisdom and might, And hast made known unto me already what we desired of thee; For thou hast now made known unto us the king's matter"; (Daniel 2:20 - 23) that is, to Daniel and his companions.

Now these are facts, as we have them today, and we have part in them, they belong to us, and we are called upon now to come into them and support them; I want you to note in all this, that the companions come into it. The most distinguished in the Lord's service may come into it more, but whatever he has he gladly shares with the companions. It is a question of what we have together in holy fellowship to share with our companions, even as Daniel embraces the other three, in saying, "for thou hast made known unto us the king's matter", Daniel 2:23. The safety of the brethren, the safety of the testimony, hinges on the secrecy that we maintain in regard to the truth; the accuracy too, but the secrecy of it. You may think I am making too much of the idea of secrecy, but it is the truth. We are not to cast pearls before swine, they will rend us if we do. We shall fail in the thing, and be useless. God is making much of the fellowship, very much of it, because of what is possible in it, as we hold together in the

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fellowship of God's Son, the fellowship of Christ's death, the fellowship of the Spirit, and finally, as stated in John's epistle, the fellowship with one another. It is in these features of fellowship that the position is made safe for God's pleasure in view of the end. If otherwise, there will be nothing but the apostasy, but the apostasy is not coming until He that now hinders is taken out of the way, 2 Thessalonians 2:7. There will be hindrances to the end; and remember that each one of us has part in the hindrance, so that the apostasy should not burst upon us, in all its evil character, its full result in the man of sin.

I am endeavouring to bring home to every one what is available and possible in the fellowship, and in the companionship into which we are brought by the Spirit of God; and so I venture to add a word as to the passage in 1 Corinthians 3:16 - 17. "Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any one corrupt the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, and such are ye". The present form of the temple, which is a provisional form, will presently be changed into a holy temple in the Lord; it is going to be changed into that. Now it is a temple, and in the sense in which our attention is called to it here, it is holy, that in which secrets are told and revealed, and as brethren moving together in the fellowship, we come into the idea of temple, not only the fellowship, but the temple. "Ye are the temple of God", 1 Corinthians 3:16. The temple implies what is holy, it implies the secrets of God. The secrets of God are with them that fear Him, and it is within our reach to know these secrets of God, and promote what is meant in the idea of the temple as in 1 Corinthians. It is a present thing, but I might say hardly used, and the reference to it in 1 Corinthians indicates that the brethren there were hardly capable of working out the idea of the temple. The apostle has to say, "Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God"? 1 Corinthians 3:16. You can hardly think that they had worked it out in their Bible readings, where it should be

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worked out. We do not need to go to any metropolitan centre, because the temple of God is a local matter; the local brethren are it, and they should not have to be told that they are it, because if they have been working it out they know that they are it, and thus they understand the Scriptures. What is contained in the epistle to the Ephesians is the greater thought, in a sense, because it is not a provisional thought. Ephesians 2:21, speaks of what "increases to a holy temple in the Lord". That would show, I apprehend, how the Ephesian christians were using the temple; for it is a question of usage. We have to ask ourselves whether it is dormant, although abstractly it is there, or whether we are using it. Now at Ephesus, I apprehend they were using the temple. Those that went to the school of Tyrannus would soon learn what was available to them through the temple, and that it was not only local, but that it was growing to a "holy temple in the Lord", Ephesians 2:21 which would be the millennial idea, but still the same people forming it.

It is stimulating to think of it, that we shall have to do with the ordering of the coming world, the millennium, when the assembly will be "a holy temple in the Lord", Ephesians 2:21. It is under the Lord, and the saints have their part in it, one over ten cities, and one over five, each one able to tell others what is to be told, what is to be known, so that the millennial day will not be marked by ignorance; for the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea. Everybody will be taught of God; that is the idea, and the temple of God, which is now growing, is to function in the millennium, and from it will be made known secrets, which the millennial people would never know except they were communicated to them from the temple above, the holy temple, as it is called, in the Lord.

There is a good deal more could be said, but I cannot say it now, because there is no time, only I would urge on the dear brethren to lay hold of what is available. Do

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not leave the temple unused; for it is usable. As to its eternal character, it will function in regard to the millennial world, so that the inhabitants will not be in the dark; things will be known to them, but they will not be known as we know them; it is a great mistake to think that they will be. Certain things will be established in the millennial day that are not established now; there will be a temple on the earth then; there is not now; the temple now is in persons, in the saints. Paul says, "Ye are the temple of God", 1 Corinthians 3:16. That is to say, the saints in any locality are the temple of God there, and so it is that the brethren have more light than is obtainable elsewhere in the world. Although we may be few, all the light of God is available to us where we are, in the Spirit, where we recognise the Spirit of God and the fellowship.

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THE WAY TO THE CITY

Ecclesiastes 10:15; Jeremiah 50:4,5; Deuteronomy 19:2 - 7

The verse in Ecclesiastes is the basis of what is to be said, applying as it does to many at the present time. It says, "they know not how to go to the city", (Ecclesiastes 10:15) and their labour "wearieth them". The idea of the city is well known in Scripture and is applicable to what is in mind now, because it denotes what is systematic and orderly, and what is available to men; available in the sense of protection suitable and usable for human needs and services. Hence the application of it to the assembly.

The assembly is "the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem", (Hebrews 12:22) and all other cities according to what there is for God in them must be regarded in the light of it, for it says indeed, "Jerusalem above…is our mother", Galatians 4:26. She is the great metropolis in a moral way of all, and so we can understand how the Spirit of God says, "Ye have come…to the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem"; (Hebrews 12:22) a very great fact, and one that should be searched out by each of us, so that we may know how to get to it and how to have part in it, have a share in it, and how to thus be systematic, spiritually at least. She is called, as I said, "the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem", (Hebrews 12:22) so that her identity is very noticeable, and the wonderful fact is to be added that she comes down from God out of heaven, "having the glory of God", (Revelation 21:11) and that she comes down both as the new Jerusalem, and as the city of the living God.

In Revelation 21:2 and 3 there is very little said as to the heavenly city, but in the second part, that is to say, from verse 9, that part which refers to the millennium, we have much about administration, more indeed than we have anywhere else, and so it is helpful and in accord

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with the moment to consider this, not that it was in mind primarily. We see there what is now imminent, that is, the introduction of the millennial world, that in which we shall all have part; what is called "the world to come". It has not come yet, save m the sense in which it is understood in the assembly; we have come to it there, but if we have not, then the question is whether we have found the way to it, or whether we are wearying ourselves, and failing to enter. The Spirit of God says "Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have right to the tree of life, and that they should go in by the gates into the city"; Revelation 22:14. Those of us who understand can say, We have come to "the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem", Hebrews 12:22. Many do not understand that, and they do not find their way into the city, and the Spirit of God tells us, in the passage I have read, "The labour of fools wearieth them, because they know not how to go to the city", Ecclesiastes 10:15. Others know! We have our Bible readings, ministry meetings, and addresses, and our private readings, morning readings, studies, meditations, all to the end that we should know how to go into the city, and to have part in it. It is the divine thought that every one of us should have part in it. In the second part of Revelation 21, there are many references to the number twelve, in which is wrapped up the administration of love, and hence skill in administration, because wisdom is the handmaid of love, and wisdom implies skill, so that no one need weary himself fruitlessly in endeavouring to get to the city; the way is manifest.

Now Jeremiah 50 in this sense is an awakening. "In those days, and at that time, saith Jehovah, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping as they go, and shall seek Jehovah their God. They shall inquire concerning Zion, with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to Jehovah in an everlasting covenant that shall not be

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forgotten"; Jeremiah 50:4. Now at such moments as these we usually say we want to speak to the young. I am not always moved in that direction. The middle-aged are more in mind, as far as I am concerned, usually; the sheep, those that have arrived at the sheep stage, not the lambs, but the sheep. They are the ones that need shepherding. The youth need feeding. As a rule they go where the food is, and so the Lord says to Peter, "Feed my lambs"; "Feed my sheep", too, He said, but "Shepherd my sheep", John 21,15 - 17. There is great need of shepherding; there is plenty of food, I might say, in one sense, thank God, but very little shepherding; hence the value of the remarkable gift spoken of in Ephesians 4; "shepherds and teachers". That is, one person having both gifts; that is to say, able to shepherd and able to feed. It is most exhilarating to look into the faces of as many as are here today. Heaven looks into our faces, and is looking into our faces now. We must not think that heaven is any less active than we are, because what is in us, normally, in those who minister, reflects what is in heaven. And so the looking into the faces, old and young, is most exhilarating to the minister, but it is really in a sense more so to heaven itself. What is going on in heaven, is one of the greatest inquiries one can make. What is going on in heaven now? What will go on we may work out from prophecy, but for what is going on now we may look into ministry and see how heaven is reflected, and how heaven regards the saints of all ages, in all the variety of ages that are amongst us.

In speaking of those of the middle-aged I have in mind that they are the ones that normally carry responsibility and are able to; they have energy, as we may say; that is, the forties or fifties or sixties. These are the ages that need attention, and heaven is attentive to them. Things rest on them, although the hope ultimately will be in the youth, for "One generation passeth away and another generation cometh", Ecclesiastes 1:4. Thank God for that other. Will you

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take account of it, and see what will develop in it, because the youth have to be watched over? Well now, this matter that I am speaking of is of vast importance to them, old and young and middle-aged. I do not speak of the very old, because one would assume that they are all fixed, as it were, as John the apostle says, "I write to you, fathers", 1 John 2:13. He has nothing more to say than that they have "known him that is from the beginning", (1 John 2:13) so that these very old brethren, including myself, may be left, as it were; not that one would assume that one is perfect, far otherwise. The apostle says he laboured to "present every man perfect in Christ", Colossians 1:28; every man, old and young, because God has no less a thought before Him than that. Then let us make up our mind, dear brethren, for this, that God has His mind about this, and that mind is to be perfect to "present every man perfect in Christ", Colossians 1:28.

Well now, the matter that I have mentioned is of prime importance to all, that we should be sure about the city, and not be wearying ourselves; "ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth", 2 Timothy 3:7. There should be the knowledge of the truth amongst us, and if the Spirit of God is amongst us there will be that. We are not to be ever learning and never coming, but ever learning and learning, because there is constant need of learning and enjoyment goes with the learning. It would be a poor thing if christianity had no enjoyment: and hence the apostle says, "Rejoice in the Lord always: again I will say, Rejoice", Philippians 4:4. I have been thinking of that for one is not to be doleful, but buoyant, and cheerful, and lighting up the countenances of the brethren, if possible, because they need it. We have been through a terrible time. Some of us have not been literally through it, but have been through it in spirit, so that we are all in it, and we all need to be brightened. Whatever there be in the way of buoyancy, it should be available and it should shine in each of us, but it will not shine in a person who

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is spending his time in seeking to find the city and not finding it. What is said here in Ecclesiastes is that "the labour of fools wearieth them, because they know not how to go to the city", Ecclesiastes 10:15. The way is knowable, as I have shown from the last chapter of the Bible, for those that wash their robes have a right to go in, they have a right to enter into the city, and to partake of the tree of life; the precious fruits of the tree of life are available to all celestials, and true christians are heavenly, we all belong to heaven. We are not there yet, but we have come to the thought, we have come to the heavenly city, and as having come to it, it ought to be known by us. The gates ought to be known, and who are the guards, the caretakers, so to speak. Angels are said to be at the gates, on which are written the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel.

Now the way is open to us, but the question is, as to knowing what it is that hinders us; what it is that keeps us out. It is manifest that we are not in if we are wearying ourselves in endeavouring to find the way, and never coming "to the knowledge of the truth"; (2 Timothy 3:7) attending the meetings, reading the ministry, so to speak, reading the Bible and never arriving at a full, clear knowledge of the truth. These things ought not to be, dear brethren, but they are, not that I am accusing anybody (I hardly know anybody here), only that I do know that in a company such as are here, I am likely to be speaking to someone who is affected, and I would urge you to get to know the way to the city. I would urge as a further thought that the epistles to the Corinthians afford us the way in. The apostle, speaking there of the Holy Spirit who is here to guide us into the truth, and of His activities, says further of the saints, "so also is the Christ", 1 Corinthians 12:12. The Christ there is inclusive of the saints, and they afford through the Spirit's presence, the means of guidance. The Spirit of God chooses the saints as the means of our arriving at divine things, the means of understanding, the means

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of checking up our growth and learning, and of being serviceable. Hence it is, that the first epistle to the Corinthians has a great abstract view of love; not a concrete view, because the concrete idea will not be there, when we have not reached it. If we only rely on terms or words, then we have not reached the truth, we have not reached the concrete thing, and the great concrete thing to keep in mind is love. "Love never fails", and it will not fail us if we want to get into the city. The great thing is to get there, and we shall enjoy the city when we get there, and we shall have part in its administration.

Referring to the verses read in Jeremiah 50, it says, "In those days, and at that time, saith Jehovah, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping as they go, and shall seek Jehovah their God. They shall inquire concerning Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to Jehovah in an everlasting covenant that shall not be forgotten", Jeremiah 50:4,5. The passage mentions the word covenant, but I am not going to tell you that this refers to the Lord's supper, because it does not. The Old Testament is full of the idea of covenant. It was the child's time, the children's part, but when the time of full age comes, then we emerge from that and graduate into the higher classes, for this is the time of sonship. "Faith having come" (Galatians 3:25), the full thought of manhood is come. That means that we understand, we know love, for we are sons, we are no longer children. "When I was a child,…I reasoned as a child", but "when I became a man, I had done with what belonged to the child". 1 Corinthians 13:11. Manhood is seen in those who love. In the first epistle to the Corinthians it is, as it were, the picture on the wall, a beautiful picture, but it is only a picture, it is not a person. Love is not explained in a person in that chapter; it is explained, of course, but it is the abstract idea, the persons are not brought in. If love is present in persons, then we shall see those persons walking and talking and

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speaking to one another, as it says in that verse we often quote:

'Nor what is next Thy heart can we forget;
Thy saints, O Lord, with Thee in glory met'. (Hymn 160)

When we meet each other there in glory, it will no longer be the abstract idea, we shall have the positive thing, love will be there. And that is what I am seeking to bring out now, to give these thoughts to the brethren, so that love is seen. It is the power for manhood. "The fulness of the time", (Galatians 4:4) the time for manhood is when the children are taken out of the nursery; that is the thought in Galatians, "the period fixed by the father", Galatians 4:2. It is then that they come into the full liberty of the house; their place in the drawing-room, so to say, in the best part of the house. I am speaking figuratively. We belong to the house of God, we belong to heaven, to the heavenly Jerusalem, which comes down from God out of heaven. There is no idea of youth there, or children, or any lack, because of youthfulness, but sonship is the idea -- manhood. And so it is; "ye are all God's sons by faith in Christ Jesus", Galatians 3:26. It is a faith matter.

And so, dear brethren, the inquiry in Jeremiah 50, about the city is by men, they are on the way to it; their faces are thitherward; that is to say, they want to be where the brethren are, not just congregating with young people, making their companions among the young, but with the elder ones, where the men are. The Lord says to His Father, "The men whom thou hast given me". That is the position, dear brethren, and I speak of it so that the youth here might have it before them to belong to the men class, so to speak, those who are men, those who are mature, those who know love, in other words. And so it says in Galatians 4, "because ye are sons", (Galatians 4:6) that is the abstract idea, "because ye are sons, God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father", Galatians 4:6. That is to say, the practical or concrete thing is

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there. In the mind of God it is there, but, even when the child's time existed, in the mind of God the idea of sonship was there, because we have in Psalm 2:7, "Thou art my Son; I this day have begotten thee", It means that the idea of sonship was in the mind of God in the time of children, in the time covered by the Old Testament, in the time of covenant, when they needed covenant, but it is not in Ephesians, not in Colossians, nor in any of the epistles applicable to us, who live by the Spirit of God. We do not need it, dear brethren, we know God, and so, we may say, we do not want God to take an oath to us, to make a covenant with us. We live of Him, "because ye are sons, God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father", Galatians 4:6. That is manhood; manhood in principle. The Spirit in the heart makes you a real man, with power to love, power to act in love, and power to serve; this is most needed, for there is much to be done, and things are to be done on the level of sonship. In the world needed things are not being done, it is marked by idleness. It should not be so with us. God is intending to show that what He has is not what the world has. What He has is sonship, and sons will do what is to be done, they know how to get into the city.

Jeremiah 50:4 says, "In those days, and in that time, saith Jehovah, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah", notice that love is active among them, they are "together, going and weeping as they go, and shall seek Jehovah their God. They shall inquire concerning Zion". They are not wearying themselves to get there, they are asking the way. There is a way to it, and they are just asking. That is the point. We often say, "how much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him"? Luke 11:13. Why should anyone be without the Holy Spirit; none will get to the city without the Spirit. The Spirit enables you to get into the city; that is, to get into the assembly, into all its blessings and privileges. Why should we be outside? That is a

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very fair question. The persons contemplated in Jeremiah are asking the way to Zion, "with their faces thitherward", Jeremiah 50:5. You can see how they move. They are looking towards Zion. Now you will remember how in the Lord's own history here, in Luke, certain Samaritans did not receive Him, because His face was towards Jerusalem. Why was it towards Jerusalem? Not that He did not know the city; He was going to die there, and that is the basis of all I am saying, dear brethren, for His going there was love. "Hereby we have known love, because he has laid down his life for us", 1 John 3:16. His face was in that direction; it was the face of love. He went down from the mount of transfiguration to Jerusalem, and I believe we might say that in the way down He went to Jerusalem, we see the dying of Jesus. He was going to die. He was laying down His life; in principle that is what He was doing. It was only a question of miles, or yards, until He got to Jerusalem, and then He would die. "It must not be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem", he said in Luke 13:33. Jerusalem was so bad that a prophet should not die elsewhere, but there, so that He must die there. So that we are in a love system, the love realm, and if it be the love of Christ, it is the love that was manifest in His dying, the dying of Jesus, because He died in love. Wonderful to think of!

We are told in Mark 9:8, that as Moses and Elias departed from the mount, and the vision disappeared, the three disciples saw no one, but "Jesus alone with themselves". All the glory attaching to Moses and the transfiguration had disappeared, not that it could not come back, it will, but it was "Jesus alone with themselves", (Mark 9:8) and so it is. It was a journey of love. He went down with them from the mount and died in Jerusalem. A prophet should not suffer outside of Jerusalem. He died there. And so it is that the Lord's supper is celebrated there, not on the mount of Olives; they went to the mount of Olives after the Supper was instituted. It is the

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place of spiritual power, but Jerusalem is the place of love, the place where the Lord died in love. "This is my body", He says, "which is for you", 1 Corinthians 11:24. It is our portion. Those of us who have to do with the Lord's supper, have that portion; we understand the love of Christ. It passeth knowledge, but we understand it. It is understandable to love, dear brethren. And the disciples went down with Him, and He went with them, and He died at Jerusalem. The city was there, but the Lord did not need to search it out.

As I was saying, John the evangelist says, "I write to you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning", 1 John 2:13. Those of us who have known Him that is from the beginning, we know love and we know how He died, dear brethren, and how His love enters into the Lord's supper, and that is for us. We know that it is our portion; it is not for anybody else, but for ourselves. "This is my body, which is for you", 1 Corinthians 11:24. He says. I want the dear brethren to have it in their hearts to understand the Lord's supper. The fathers do not ask for a covenant; they understand love; they know Him that is from the beginning. They know all about the Lord in that sense; not all, of course, because He is inscrutable, but still there is that which is knowable, that is, "him that is from the beginning", 1 John 2:13. I would say again that the Lord's supper is only intelligible fully, to those who love, to those who know Him that is from the beginning. Love is there from the very beginning, the beginning of Christ; a phrase that will be understood. The Lord's supper is for us; "this is my body, which is for you", 1 Corinthians 11:24. He says, so that we understand, that we are having to do with Him who loves. In Ephesians it is that ye may "know the love of the Christ, which surpasses knowledge", Ephesians 3:19. There are many other things we are to know, according to that chapter, but there is this one thing that is beyond us, beyond all creatures, and yet it is available to us; we have part in it; that is, the love of Christ. We have part in it in the sense

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in which it is intelligible to us in the Lord's supper; it is for us. The Lord would say that. It is for you.

These persons in Jeremiah have their faces towards Zion. "They shall inquire concerning Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to Jehovah in an everlasting covenant that shall not be forgotten", Jeremiah 50:5. I would turn aside here to explain a little as to the word covenant, and I do not need to repeat what I said, but there is the idea of assurance that enters into christianity. It is a question of the knowledge of God, dear brethren. The knowledge of God gives assurance; nothing can give greater assurance. He does not need to make a covenant; the knowledge of Himself gives assurance. And so it is, that as one thinks of those on their way to the city, the young people come up in one's mind. Many do not know the city, they do not know how to get into it; maybe they are half-hearted; maybe there is something in their minds that must happen before they come into the idea, and take on definitely. The Lord is not pleased with that, it is a half-hearted matter. This passage says, "they shall inquire concerning Zion with their faces thitherward", Jeremiah 50:5 They are not looking in another direction. They are moving in that direction, and it is most encouraging to all of us, especially to those who serve in the Lord's work, to see persons who are looking in the right direction, and who are definite in it, and want to get into the city. They are not going to be turned aside. They are thankful to get every bit of light there is, and every bit of food too, to strengthen them in the position, because they will need it in the city. This city affords all the pleasures that God can give us; which He can give by His Spirit in the "heavenly Jerusalem". It is a remarkable expression.

As I said before, Revelation 21 should be studied carefully. There is the first coming down of the persons as "the holy city, new Jerusalem", and it is "prepared as a bride adorned for her husband", Revelation 21:2 She is ready

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for Christ; the most interesting of all to the Lord Jesus is the bride, the "bride adorned for her husband", Revelation 21:2. She thinks of Him; she thinks of the adornment that is suitable for her, and so there is nothing about administration. I mean to say there is nothing said about the number twelve; you get much of that in the next section, commencing at verse 9, but in the earlier section it is a question of the tabernacle of God, and the city coming down from God out of heaven, and all that she is as adorned, as a bride for her husband. I cannot think of anything more interesting for our souls, or, I might say, more interesting to the Lord Jesus, nothing can be in a way more interesting than the bride adorned for Him, adorned for her husband. Reverting to the word in Jeremiah are our faces in that direction, the right direction?

Now I will just refer to Deuteronomy 19, in order to confirm this matter of cities. These cities are to be in threes; three more to be added if necessary. They are to be available, not now to persons who have been specially interested in cities, but who are specially interested in finding a refuge; there is something they need refuge from. There are many like that. Something has happened and a man is in a plight; things have happened that will cause a shade on the person, and some of the brethren are very concerned about him. They are not throwing stones at him, but would make a way, make it as short as possible, take away all the impediments, all that might hinder him, so that he might be recovered, as quickly as possible. And so the Israelites, or the brethren, if I may use that figure, are ready to help you, if there be anything in the way of shadow on you. Transparency is what marks the assembly, and what marks the brethren generally; not any shades there. There may be cause for the shadow, and the brethren know and are ready to serve you, they are ready to help, but the way may be long, there are further difficulties that have to be avoided,

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and so many things may happen. These things that I am now speaking of refer to persons with whom there is a shade, in spite of themselves, they are in circumstances of question.

The word is, in Deuteronomy 19:2 - 3, "Thou shalt separate three cities for thyself in the midst of thy land, which Jehovah thy God giveth thee to possess. Thou shalt prepare thee the way", that is, the believer, the saints, let us look out that we prepare this way. Let us see that there are no barriers raised up that might interfere, or cause a person to be inconvenienced by something that he has no control over. The government of God, of course, goes on, and no one who loves God would want to interfere with that, and yet love has its way among the saints. So it is, "Thou shalt prepare thee the way, and divide the territory of thy land, which Jehovah thy God giveth thee to inherit, into three parts, so that every slayer may flee thither. And this is the case of the slayer, who shall flee thither, that he may live". Deuteronomy 19:3,4. That is the question, dear brethren, of the person being alive, or living. The shade may so discourage him as to wear him out, the thing may do damage to him, and yet he may be relieved, and if he is to be relieved, if he is to get into the city of refuge, then we must not put barriers in the way. "Prepare thee the way", (Deuteronomy 19:3) so that the path is made easy for the man-slayer, so that he may live and not die, dear brethren. We want to live ourselves, but we want others to live. One asked the Lord, "Lord, teach us to pray", Luke 11:1. He did not say, 'Teach me to pray'. If he wished to get on better in the truth, or in the ministry than any others, he might have said, 'Teach me to pray', but he said, "Teach us to pray", Luke 11:1. It was a love matter in this man's mind, and he wanted all the brethren to pray. So if there be anything good, let it be for us all. If anything is good for me, it is good for all the saints. Let us look that way, think that way, so that we become a circle of love, because that is the idea of christianity, a circle. The Lord looked

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"around in a circuit at those who were sitting around him"; (Mark 3:34) that is the principle. There is the idea of a square, of course, four square, and of a cube, but the idea generally in God's realm is of a circle. We may know that from the heavens, and the earth too, most things are on the principle of a circle, as far as I can see. We have to take notice of that, for we have to begin there.

And so it is, that if there be any persons under a cloud and who may suffer damage by it, let them get to the city of refuge; let them get released as soon as possible. We know how many are seeking release from the Army now; we are all praying for them. It is their matter, but it is our matter too. We want our brethren with us, we want them where love is; it is not in the Army, it is where the saints are. And so the word is, "Prepare thee a way", Deuteronomy 19:3. How much can I do for the brethren, to get them out of the difficulties and into the circle where love is? It is the way to heaven, because the city is, you might say, the counterpart of heaven, the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and the way is there. So that those that wash their robes have a right to enter by the gates, not clandestinely, but by the gates. There is liberty in doing it. They enter by the gates into the city, and have part in the tree of life, the celestial tree which belongs to heaven. It bears fruit monthly, and the leaves are "for healing of the nations"; (Revelation 22:2) but its fruit belongs to us, and we do not want to keep any brother, in any sense out of that, we want to make a way for him. And so it goes on, "This is the case of the slayer, who shall flee thither, that he may live: he that smiteth his neighbour unwittingly", (now this is the thing that causes the shade on the person) "whom he hated not previously; as when he goeth into the wood with his neighbour to hew wood, and his hand fetcheth a stroke with the axe to cut down the tree, and the iron slippeth from the handle, and lighteth upon his neighbour, that he die; such an one shall flee unto one of these cities, and live", Deuteronomy 19:4,5. You see his life is bound up with

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the cities whatever one it is, whatever one of those three. Then, "if Jehovah thy God enlarge thy border…then shalt thou add three cities more", Deuteronomy 19:8,9. That is the appointment; increase the life position, and it is a question of increasing the love position. "By this shall all know that ye are disciples of mine, if ye have love amongst yourselves"; (John 13:35) said the Lord. That love will make the way to the city of refuge where the person fleeing is set at full liberty; the liberty of sonship seen there in persons who love. The word goes on to say, "lest the avenger of blood pursue the manslayer, while his heart is hot, and overtake him, because the way is long", Deuteronomy 19:6. We do not want to make the way long; make it as short as possible; love will do that, and remove hindrances in doing so, because if the way is long, the avenger may slay him. He is in great danger; and so the utmost care is to be taken so that there is no barrier in the way, for "he was not worthy of death, since he hated him not previously", Deuteronomy 19:6. Well, that is what I had to say, dear brethren, and I think it will be intelligible to us all. Let us see that love may have free course and be glorified.

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PRIESTHOOD DEPENDENT ON LOVE

Exodus 21:1 - 6; Exodus 28:1 - 4; Isaiah 61:6 - 11

It is on my mind to say a little about love; in fact, as much as I can, within the short time available, but as bearing on priesthood. Priesthood depends on love, and hence the measure of love being not large, priesthood itself is not evident in large measure. In speaking of love, I have in mind the sense in which it is found in our first scripture, as first typified in Christ. We are enjoined, or encouraged rather, to know the love of Christ. It is in God's mind to instruct us as to it, although it is said, at the same time, that it passeth knowledge; "to know the love of the Christ, which surpasses knowledge", Ephesians 3:19. So that, although much is said in the passage quoted, in Ephesians 3, as to what we may know, and should know, and what God intends us to know yet it is said that the love of Christ passeth knowledge. The knowledge of it, however, is within our range. We are to know the breadth, and the length, and the height, and the depth, which would be what I may call, creature knowledge, inasmuch as it is limited; divine knowledge is not. The love of Christ is not limited, for "it passeth knowledge". This is said in the chapter that speaks of knowledge, the chapter in which Paul enlarges on his own knowledge of the mystery, not of science, so called, or anything of that kind, but the mystery; his knowledge of the mystery; he is indicating that someone knew something of it, and he was that one.

Having said all this, I proceed to touch on love, prefacing what I have to say as to it with this, that if I "have not love I am nothing", 1 Corinthians 13:2; which is a very humbling thing to be said of persons who are nominally christians. I come now to speak of Exodus 21, in view of priesthood, because the need for priesthood is very great.

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It is great as to the need of persons so designated; it is needed in the testimony of the gospel, and in ministry to the saints; the need of ministry is very great. Paul urges, in view of it, that the ministry may not be blamed. To this end the need of having love is great, so that while there may be much ministry, it may not be blameable, that it may be worthy of what it is called.

Now, to speak of priesthood is, evidently, to speak of Aaron, to speak of Aaron and his sons; his sons being simply figurative of christians, Aaron being figurative of Christ Himself. Aaron is also to be regarded as a saint, he is called a saint, one of the few that are; I mean, specially. Aaron is distinguished in that he is called "the saint of Jehovah", Psalm 106:16. Therefore he is a suitable and worthy subject for what is now before us, namely, priesthood. I would comment a little on the fact that although he is the anointed priest eventually, much is said about him before he is called priest, as if the designation did not belong to anyone. You may say, Jehovah proposed that Israel should be a nation of priests, and that is true, and it would be on the principle of obedience, not on the principle of love. Love is not the thing stressed at that time, it was too early in the history of Israel to stress the thought of love, but it was time to speak of obedience, and that would be the ground on which priesthood could be attached to Israel. They were to be a nation of priests, but I need not say that they did not become that, although Jehovah had it in His mind that they should be, but the ground on which it could be, would be obedience. That is in Exodus 19. Aaron was already serving, serving worthily too. He was three years older than Moses, which would mean that he would eventually have to face something that might hamper him a bit, in that his younger brother ultimately would become greater than he; such a matter is always a great test to us. The test for Aaron did not occur at once, it waited a Miriam to bring it out fully, showing how the sisters can augment

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an error, Miriam later joining with her brother in questioning Moses, as if he was not any better than they. How easily we measure ourselves with ourselves, poor measurement, but still if Aaron and Miriam were measured with Moses they would come far behind, and they did. They vied with their brother, but as I said, Aaron served well at the outset.

Aaron comes into the history in Exodus, in the fourth chapter, and God says of him, to Moses, "I know that he can speak well", Exodus 4:14. God knows us well, even in the small days of our ministry. If there is anything at all that God can approve, He knows about it, and knows those who have it. So He said that He knew Aaron, and He knew that he could speak well, and I need not add to that, that speaking well is not everything, platform work is not everything. I am in it myself a good deal, and I quite recognise too that it is not everything, very far from it. God knew that Aaron could speak well, and He told Moses that his brother Aaron was going to meet him. Aaron took the initiative, you might say, in brotherly love, a very important thing, not to be waiting on others to show love, but to take the initiative in it oneself. You might say, Well, he did not speak to me; but what about you, Did you speak to him? Aaron went to meet his brother, and he kissed him; he might have said much immediately, but he did not, he kissed him first; showing that there was love there, even although it might be said to be brotherly love, but the Spirit of God says, add to "brotherly love, love". Aaron, as I said, was serving well, and serving in love in a measure, and commended by God too, yet in all that he did at that time, he was not called a priest; the thing that we always think of, as attaching to Aaron, did not appear.

Now, I want to show how the scriptures link up with this for our profit. Much is said besides what I have said as to Aaron; he had four sons, and they are not called priests. Priesthood is hinted at as possibly applicable to

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Israel presently, and it is alluded to in the later chapters of Exodus as possessed by some; there are certain persons called priests, without their names, which would indicate they are not the ones, really, answering to the mind of God. There are certain ones called priests in Exodus 19, but we are not told their names, and then there are others who serve as priests, and their names are not given; they are called youths. God is using them, exercising patience with them, because of the urgency of priesthood at the moment; someone had to do the work, and it was done; but no word yet about priesthood in Aaron nor in his sons. The conclusion in my mind is that God is working up to something in them, in the sense of quality; quality that should shine where it was needed. So the history goes on, and we arrive at chapter 21, which is a very important chapter in detail, but I have read it just for one purpose, and that is, to bring out love, not in Aaron, not in Aaron's sons, but in a bondman, a Hebrew bondman; in other words a slave, but he has love, and so I am now free to speak of it. The Spirit of God speaks of it, and I believe that the time has now come when it should be seen in the history of the testimony. The call for it is very constant, and such circumstances as these are very constant in the history of the testimony in our own times, when the time comes that love should appear. All else has failed, and one is pained at the thought of the many things that are left unfinished; some of them for years owing to the lack of love. Hence the necessity for priesthood, for love in priesthood, because love is the one thing that never fails. In alluding to these unfinished troubles I am not assuming that I have part in the things that have been settled immediately, for I have been remiss, I have to own, with others too, in these matters. Such matters are slow in mending, I believe, because spiritual life is not there; where there is deadness, the absence of life, then there is a slothfulness in dealing with such matters. Life is the great thing that is needed. Of

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course, life is love, and love is life. I am not saying they are interchangeable, but very nearly interchangeable, but love is the greater, the greater of these is love. The absence of life is usually the reason for the prolongation of sorrows, or causes of sorrow; and then the absence of love, which is the extension of the idea of life.

As I said, the time has come now, in the history of the testimony, for love to appear. It is the twenty-first chapter of Exodus, it begins the section reaching to chapter 24. I say that because of the importance of the detail furnished in those chapters, leading up to the actual journey taken by Israel under the angel at the hand of God. The time had come now, in chapter 21, for love to show itself, and that is what is in mind to call attention to, that there is someone who has love, and that one is no less than the Lord Jesus. It is the Lord Jesus typically, and one never ceases to give thanks to God for the typical teaching of Scripture, how it fits into the christian doctrine. The typical teaching here is of the Lord Jesus Christ, He says plainly, I love, "I love my master, my wife, and my children", (Exodus 21:5) and it adds to that (giving the declaration its peculiar force), "I will not go out free". In other words, the type goes to the limit of the testimony of love. As the scripture says, if we have not love we are nothing, but if we have, we are known in heaven. I am certain of that. So here it is not something said in a whisper; it is not a drawing room matter, something that might be whispered among special friends, but something plainly spoken. If we tell our brethren that we have love, and we are not walking in it, then the brethren do not believe us. This need of love comes up constantly in matters that have to be dealt with. It is a precious thought that the brethren have love. I am speaking now in a general sense, I might say in the abstract sense, in saying that. The testimony to what we are ourselves each one, is in this that we love the brethren; "we have passed from death to life", (1 John 3:14) if we

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love the brethren. There is much for each one of us to do, and to speak of, in the sense of love; not simply saying it to one another, but each one having it, and having passed from death unto life. "Hereby we have known love, because he has laid down his life for us", 1 John 3:16. That is Jesus; that is the type here; the knowledge of love that we have is because of His laying down His life for us. So that the knowledge of love has come through Christ. "Hereby we have known love, because he has laid down his life"; 1 John 3:16; He has attested it, absolutely. But then He did more than that, He said it plainly. The Song of Solomon brings out what the Lord's voice was to His lover; that is, to the saints, transferring it to ourselves. The Song of Solomon brings out what His voice was, and He wanted to hear His spouse's voice too.

It is beautiful to think of this thrice announced testimony to love in Exodus 21. It was spoken loudly, distinctly; the word plainly must mean that. He said things plainly; that is to say, "I love my master, my wife, and my children", Exodus 21:5. Think of the accents of Christ conveyed in those testimonies to love, in that plain speaking. You can see what I have in mind; the priesthood is now before us, not simply persons who can offer sacrifices in a formal way, but those who can wear such garments as are described in Exodus 28. They are embroidered things, they refer to the working of life in persons who are constituted to be priests, persons that will not discredit the office. The Lord did not discredit the office. Aaron's sons did; two of them were slain on account of that, the other two remained as a remnant; Aaron's "sons that were left", Leviticus 10:12. The two sons of Aaron that were left, were to carry on the priesthood, and Eleazar is the principal one, and he did not discredit it.

As I have said, the matter of love is public, not only in Christ, but in the profession of christianity now there is

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love, there is no question about that; let men say what they please, love exists among the brethren. The Lord has commanded it indeed, and has said, "by this shall all know that ye are disciples of mine, if ye have love amongst yourselves", John 13:35. Love amongst yourselves, not merely John loving another, loving Peter; they worked well together, but that is not the full thought in the Lord's word, 'love among yourselves'. I have no hesitation at all in challenging any who wish to be challenged as to this matter, whether christians love, whether they know love. In this whole company, I have not a doubt in my mind or in my heart either, that everyone here, speaking generally, knows love, and is loved, but he knows love. "Hereby we have known love", (1 John 3:16) the point is to know it, as I have already said in the beginning, to know the love of Christ, that is the point; that is the point in Ephesians. It is the one thing that passeth knowledge, yet the love of Christ is to be known though in a qualified way, because it is infinite. It is, dear brethren, and yet we know it. I am speaking now in an abstract sense I might say, but I do say, and believe in my heart, that the company of brethren before me love, they know love, and on this account the devil cannot dispose of us. We are to "fear not", in that sense. I believe the epistle to the Ephesians will make us men in that sense, fearless as to the testimony, but it is because love never fails. Confidence in one another obliges me to say that I believe the brethren here, and thousands of us in this great centre of population, thousands of us, know love. Indeed, we have scripture to show it, "thousands of them that love me"; (Exodus 20:6) as I have said before, not that should love Me, but those who do; and I am sure we are not behind in that sense, that there are not fewer now than there were at mount Sinai. It was a great test, but Jehovah spoke of the "thousands of them that love me", (Exodus 20:6) What a triumph it was that He could say that, and to say further in the same chapter, "Where I shall make my

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name to be remembered, I will come unto thee and bless thee", Exodus 20:24. The adverb "where" is to be noted. So that we can locate the brethren, those who love, because the blessing of God is there.

Now I should say a little more about the sons of Aaron and their clothes, but it is Aaron's clothes that are particularly stressed; the sons' are very meagre in comparison with Aaron's. Aaron speaks of Christ, with the holy garments that belong to the Lord Jesus, our great Priest above, and what a Priest; we have such an one High Priest. How one loves to think of it, such an one High Priest; He has passed through the heavens; of no creature could that be said. He has passed through the heavens, but His love remains with Him. His love is in His heart up there. The breastplate is there, the Urim and the Thummim are there; so that we may know where the love is, where the One is that really loves, who loves unchangeably. He loves us, as John says in his praise, "To him who loves us", Revelation 1:5. It is not loved, but loves us, "and has washed us from our sins in his blood, and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father"; (Revelation 1:5,6) the Lord Jesus has done that. So that we can identify our blessed Lover; we do not say, with the Israelites, "We do not know what is become of him"; (Exodus 32:1) for love knows; we may be sure of that; the brethren will know where the Lord is. If it be a matter in question, of doctrine, or principle, or an issue, and there is conflict, the lovers will know where the Lord is in the matter. Love never fails; so that we need not fear, as Jehovah said to Abram, "Fear not…I am thy shield, thy exceeding great reward", Genesis 15:1. There was nothing to fear.

Now to come to the prophetic part. It is remarkable that Isaiah says here, in his prophetic word, "But as for you, ye shall be called priests of Jehovah; it shall be said of you: Ministers of our God"; (Isaiah 61:6) this is a prophetic word; we have been speaking of it today, it is a word that might be spoken in any of our meetings, because there are what

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we call prophetic meetings, and they are not misnamed; there is such a thing as prophecy current amongst the brethren, not only love, but prophecy. In earlier days sisters prophesied too; four sisters, the daughters of Philip the evangelist. One does not wish to say a word in any sense of discredit, but still it is hard to find a sister today who prophesies. You say, Well, it is hard to find a brother; I do not think so. I know several, who prophesy. I am not speaking theoretically, I know it is so, I know persons who do prophesy, and I expect they will prophesy more. Here, in Isaiah, the word says, "ye shall be called priests of Jehovah; it shall be said of you: Ministers of our God. Ye shall eat the wealth of the nations, and into their glory shall ye enter", Isaiah 61:6. And then in Isaiah 61:9, "their seed shall be known among the nations, and their offspring among the peoples: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are a seed that Jehovah hath blessed". I call attention to the word seed here; then, Isaiah 61:10, "I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he bath clothed me with the garments of salvation (notice this, garments of salvation), he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments", The margin says, 'decketh himself as a priest'. In this passage we have come to the speaker, not the speaker for others, but the speaker mentioning himself, and what he is experiencing, and that is the point that I would stress, what we experience, in the things of God. And in this tenth verse it is I, "I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God: for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments", or "decketh himself with the priestly turban"; (Isaiah 61:10) that is the man who is speaking here, he is not an ordinary man. He is not an ordinary Israelite, he is speaking of himself, and speaking of his clothes, and

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what Jehovah has done for him, and how He has decked him, he has decked himself by Jehovah's hands as it were, with a priestly turban, with a headdress, something denoting intelligence, I would say.

This is the point that I would stop at now, for my hope is that something will come out of this; these meetings are surely for a purpose, and they should come to a completion. We hear constantly in Scripture of things being finished, the prayers of David were finished, for instance, and many other such things. There are things that should be finished, and we should not go on too long and yet leave things unfinished. We should learn to stop at any matter when we are done, and now I am about done, and in finishing I would leave you with this person who is speaking prophetically of himself. He is saying that he is decked with a priestly turban, and he is speaking also of a bridegroom; he is a bridegroom himself wearing a priestly turban, and then he is speaking of a bride who adorns herself with ornaments. I take it to be the extension of the great chapter from which I have read, Exodus 28; that is to say, the chapter describing the high priest's dress. It is spoken of, I might say, in heaven, for Aaron's dress is spoken of in Psalm 133:2, and the ointment that ran down from his beard to the very skirts of his garments, "the hem of his garments", meaning that they were finished. So it is that I am about finished, but I would leave you with this to think of, a prophet, who is speaking of himself, and is saying that he is decked with a priestly turban, and he is speaking of a bride who "adorneth herself with her jewels", Isaiah 61:10.

These thoughts of priestliness, brothers and sisters having priestliness, which is very scarce, but very much needed, are to be before us, for to reach them is possible for everyone. It is not that a man becomes priested, as in the so-called churches, but that there is the real thing, that the person is a priest, that is clothed with garments,

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the garments denoting what he is as really affected by and formed by the Spirit of God. There is what the Holy Spirit effects in us, so as to make us suitable for the service of God; "Priests of Jehovah". May God bless the word.

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THE ESPOUSAL OF THE SAINTS TO CHRIST

2 Corinthians 11:1 - 3; Genesis 2:18 - 25

I have in mind to speak of man, as inclusive of man and woman; that is, male and female; and I have selected this verse in 2 Corinthians with a view to speaking of woman, because the epistles to Corinth enlarge on her; they enlarge on her in the sense in which they enlarge on other things also; that is, in the abstract sense. The first chapter of the first epistle deals with the truth in an abstract way, a way found elsewhere in both epistles, because it enables the Spirit of God to deal with truth, not as practically expressed, practically carried out, but with a view to basing other things on it; as, for instance, the principle of gift. The apostle says, "Ye come short in no gift", 1 Corinthians 1:7. This can only be understood abstractly; and so, with other passages and things, as for instance, the question of leaven; "Purge out the old leaven", 1 Corinthians 5:7. That is not abstract, but alas, very concrete, especially at Corinth, the city that was famed for its wickedness, for its looseness, and so it was to be purged out; the apostle afforded the means judicially of purging it out, at least, in one person, an incestuous person, who was put away. But then the apostle says, in aging or directing them to purge out the old leaven, "that ye may be a new lump, according as ye are unleavened", 1 Corinthians 5:7. That is what I mean by abstract, and it is found throughout the first epistle, and the second too, and I believe the very passage I have read involves it, because the condition of the Corinthians hardly afforded much of a concrete nature in the way of chastity; whereas the apostle had in mind to treat of the brethren at Corinth, men and women, as a unit; they were to be presented to Christ. Indeed he had done this. He said, "I have

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espoused you unto one man, to present you a chaste virgin to Christ", 2 Corinthians 11:2. How he succeeded I am not prepared to enlarge on, but certainly the second letter indicates that there was considerable progress in the ministry, although he had to say, in the closing chapters of the second letter, that he had much to deal with, judicially, the very worst things too, but was hindered because of the delayed obedience of the Corinthians, their obedience was not yet fulfilled. It was in the course of fulfilment, God working, but the apostle reserved his judgment as to the wickedness that he was obliged to speak of.

It is solemn and sorrowful that there should be any such thing in an assembly of God; and yet the gathering at Corinth is called an assembly of God; specifically called "the assembly of God which is in Corinth", 1 Corinthians 1:2. There was serious evil, as I said, but it was not overlooked or condoned; the apostle had in mind to deal with it, and in view of doing so he was waiting on the Corinthians so that they might judge themselves. They had judged themselves to a considerable extent, but not wholly, and therefore he waited, showing how patient God is with His people. Paul says therefore, "having in readiness to avenge all disobedience when your obedience shall have been fulfilled", 2 Corinthians 10:6. He does not spare them; he was ready to avenge all disobedience. Therefore when their obedience was fulfilled, and doubtless it was in measure, then the wickedness undoubtedly would be driven out.

Now, having said so much, with a view to the clarification of my subject, I turn to the passage in Genesis, in order to point out the need of the feminine side of the truth being present substantially. It was really scarce at Corinth; I mean the true character of the female was not much in evidence, and it may be so today, amongst the brethren; there may be a scarcity of the feminine, in the true sense. I am thinking of it only in the true sense, and so I refer to Genesis 1 to bring out my point, and to show

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how the feminine side can be scarce, or even not present at all.

Solomon said, in Ecclesiastes 7:28, that, "one man among a thousand have I found, but a woman among all those have I not found". The dear sisters will understand I am not attacking them, for in truth I am not. I want to bring out the doctrine that is involved in what I am saying, and that is seen in Genesis 1:26. God says, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion". The word man in that verse alludes to the material of which he was made; that is earth; he was to be earthy. In the next verse we have Man -- the Adam -- a more dignified reference, although it still refers to earth or ground, yet it is more dignified, and includes "male and female", as it is said; "God created Man in his image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them", Genesis 1:27. In truth the meaning of it is, the Adam; that is, there was a great being now whom God had brought forth, and he is in God's mind in view of His counsels. Then He says to them; that is to say, to Man, "Be fruitful and multiply", Genesis 1:22.

In Genesis 2 we see what I remarked already, that at the outset the woman is really not there, although she is implied in the plural pronoun them, and in male and female. So God has to wait, so to say; not that He could not have made her at once, but He did not. There was in His mind clearly the thought that at some particular periods of the history of the testimony, there would be an absence or shortage of the female. Indeed, Solomon formally states it, because he has in mind the Messiah, and that He would be alone in this sense, and so it was for many a day. Genesis 2 brings out a principle according to which God acts; that is, to mention a thing, or a truth, or a principle, and then cause it to be waited for, so as to be appreciated. God has His own way of doing things, and we have to learn to wait on Him, and so it was that at the first even man was not there. The second

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chapter is the lengthening out of the first, in order to bring out something that is not in the first, something that was, nevertheless, in the counsels of God. So there was no man, "there was no man to till the ground", Genesis 2:5. But presently there was, and God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul, but by himself; and in that solitariness there is the idea of need. Jehovah Himself felt it first; there was not a man to till the ground, and then also there was no helpmate, suitable for him, when the man was there. God had His satisfaction in man up to a point, because He set him to work, but there was no partner, no helpmeet, no one to join with him, to reciprocate his affections or his intelligence; there was no woman. It is as if God would say, You will have to wait, Adam; and so it is that the Lord Jesus has had to wait, as I said before, for His bride. God gave the man something to do, for God would develop his intelligence, or rather He would show to himself as well as to others, what intelligence He had placed in that wonderful being called man. I have already remarked as to the article, entering into the title or name, the Adam, as distinguishing the man. A suggestion of distinguishment is in it, and yet he is alone. Now in the verses I have read, God is saying that it is not good for man to be alone, showing how God comes down to our way of thinking and speaking. "It is not good", He says, "that man should be alone", Genesis 2:18. To whom is He speaking? Well, we might say, to Himself. Possibly Adam heard, for Adam too, would begin to think that it was not good for him to be alone. He had looked for someone like himself, and did not find "his like", verse 20.

Then, what is to be remarked is that God was developing the intelligence that was in His great creature, and so He begins to bring the cattle to him. It is a matter of showing how God can pause in His ways, in order to bring out principles that had not yet been brought out, and even names that had not been mentioned. God can

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wait, and pause, and He would teach us to learn to do that too, to wait on Him, to wait on His disclosures, to wait on His enlargements, for we shall not wait in vain. God loves to think of us and to look at us, as we are thinking that He is going to bring out something to us. We have been hoping today, dear brethren, I may say simply, that the Lord would bring out something to us, and I think we have had some good cause for satisfaction. So now, the thought was that God would see what intelligence Adam had, for intelligence marks Adam here throughout.

I cannot, of course, enumerate the creatures that might have been brought to Adam, whether it was the lion, or the cow or the sheep, but God brought them, and it was to see what Adam would call them. How God loves to look at us and think of us, as we are thinking and meditating and studying, so as to arrive at the truth, and as we arrive at it, to see its beauty, and its glory, for Christ is the truth. Thus the cattle are brought to Adam. His intelligence is being tested, and what a time it is, dear brethren, for the working out of intelligence in us. I believe John's gospel is particularly intended for the last days, to work out intelligence in the brethren, in a living way. And so Mary comes in at the last, in the long line of teaching; for us it would really mean the expectation of teaching -- from the first chapter of John to chapter 20. Finally she says, 'Rabboni', which we have often commented upon, but it simply is to show that she was learning, as a woman; she was learning from Christ. Now Adam, as I said, is giving names to the creatures, and God is listening, and He is not making any changes, nor making any corrections. Whatever man said was the name of any creature, that was its name. That is a suggestion of great importance, as I have been saying already, dear brethren, as to teaching, as to learning, as to how much we are learning, challenging us as to whether we are learning anything, and if we are learning

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accurately, carefully going over the truth, comparing spiritual with spiritual, having discernment too, for "the spiritual discerns all things, and he is discerned of no one", 1 Corinthians 2:15.

Well, the process went on, and God caused Adam to sleep. I am just speaking of what we all know, what God did to bring out His great thoughts as to man. It was still the Adam, it was still the great creature that was yet without a helpmate, without a counterpart, but he is now asleep, and what is to happen? I am led in my mind to travel to the endings of the gospels, especially John 20, because typically it is a question of man, man in Christ. The Lord is now seen among the disciples in Jerusalem. Luke does not say that He comes, but that, "as they were saying these things, he himself stood in their midst", Luke 24:36. He shows Himself to them, but John says He came; "Jesus came and stood in the midst", (John 20:19) and then He showed unto them His hands and His side; that is, He would bring out what I am alluding to in Genesis. This bears upon how we are to be educated in the truth. We have first the man, otherwise there can be no opening up of the truth that I am aiming at; that is, the assembly in a feminine sense. With ourselves, likewise, if things are normal, if the men are learning, the women will learn too. All this is a question of the brethren learning the truth. What I refer to as a feminine element is scarce because of the want of learning, the want of education, and what is presented in the Man is to help us; so the man has to be put into a deep sleep. Will his education, his intelligence, awake with him? Will it stay with him? It will, and that was what God intended to bring into evidence, that Christ having died, came out of death with all the infinite intelligence that was there. So God, as the scripture says, took a rib from Adam and made out of the rib a woman. Adam was asleep. What a moment it was, dear brethren as the Lord Jesus lay in death. One feels he hardly knows how to think on those lines, what it was for

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God, for He was there, I mean in the type, He was there testing the Man. Presently Adam awakes, and now what will he do? What will he think? He is again put to the test, he has no longer a cow or a sheep to name, but an entirely new creature, one whom he has not seen before. He has been alone, I cannot say how long; it could only be a matter of hours, because the creation of woman must have been in the same day in which Adam was created. God can do things in a day or in a minute, in the twinkling of an eye. So Adam awakes, and here is this creature. Did he discern anything? Was she anything different from the other creatures? O, very different! God does not say a word to him.

You will understand, dear brethren, that I am endeavouring to reach the point of the increase of the feminine thought, in view of the assembly, because the counsels of God require it. God is waiting for it, and He can wait, just as He did here, so now He is waiting for Israel, too, as we had it already today, "all Israel shall be saved", Romans 11:26. They will be born in a day, a great matter, in due time. God will wait for that, in a certain sense He is waiting for it now, but He is waiting specially for the assembly now; He is waiting for the process which is essential, in order to reach the feminine thought. I mean, the process through which man must go, in order to reach the feminine thought. The apostle is saying that the saints at Corinth, men and women, are to be presented to Christ as a chaste virgin. You may say, I do not understand, but I hope you will understand, for it is a time for thinking; it is a time for thinking of ourselves too, and what God is going to do, what He is doing, the processes through which we have to go, dear brethren, to reach the divine mind, the divine ideal. Without fail it will be reached; nothing will be lacking, although there may be few in it. At Corinth, the process was going on, and it is going on now, in this hail. I say, humbly, that I am speaking 'of Christ and of the assembly', as Paul

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says, "I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly", (Ephesians 5:32) but he says I am speaking of a great mystery, and I am conscious, that I am speaking of a great mystery, and hardly understand it myself, I say that without any hesitation, yet my mind understands more than my affections, because the mind has greater power for understanding. But we must progress from the mind to the affections in order to get the true thought of God. The true thought of God in man requires a heart, man must have a heart; he must have affections.

So it is that Adam awakes and here is this great creature before him, you can picture her standing by him. Without speaking of things in any merely imaginative way one can visualise that there the woman is standing beside Adam, the man. And Jehovah does not say one word about it, but He brought her to the man, and the man is still the man. And the wonderful thing is that Adam is going to form words, he is going to increase the vocabulary, the spiritual vocabulary. Well, these are wonderful things, especially as they apply to Christ, and they are to be applied to ourselves too, because the Spirit of God is in us, and there are wonderful things possible where the Spirit of God is, where He dwells. I am not thinking of the mere thought of sealing, but of His dwelling, for then you may look for great things. And so it is that Adam uses two words, two new words, that do not appear in the divine vocabulary before. He says to Jehovah, "This time it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh: this shall be called Woman". The word is Ishshah, a new word, "because this was taken out of a man", (Genesis 2:23) that is, Ish, another new word. Now the blessed God is in the presence of a wonderful creature who can form new words, and they referred to a formation, and that formation was woman, she had been taken out of man. He puts the right name on her, a name that implies affection, because it is the name that would henceforth become the name for wife. And Adam himself would have

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another name too, which also implies affection; that is to say, his name would be called Ish. Of course Adam added to the vocabulary in naming the animals, but now he is dealing with a wholly different kind of creature. I am not endeavouring to teach you mere language, but what I am saying is true, and it leads up to what I have in mind; that is, that God is intending to work out the thought of the assembly. He is doing it, doing it every minute, perhaps with little success because of our poverty, and weakness and ignorance, but still He is working, in infinite patience, to bring about His great thoughts, and one of His greatest thoughts is the formation of the assembly; as Paul says, "I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly", Ephesians 5:32.

John the baptist spoke about Christ; he did not exactly speak of the assembly, though he did say, "He that has the bride is the bridegroom", John 3:29. He said that much about the bride, but Paul is speaking about Christ and the assembly and God is helping the brethren to speak about Christ and the assembly, and to understand too the mystery, the great mystery, which God is working out. So, as I said, we are, I believe, under God, in for disclosures, not exactly fresh disclosures, but disclosures of things that have been known before, so that they may be known now in a fresh way, and perhaps known better. Anyway an opportunity is before us to learn better, not to be for ever learning and never coming to a knowledge of the truth, but to learn at once, one thing at a time, as Paul says, "in part", but in any case to learn.

Now to go on to my scripture in Corinthians. Paul's letters to Corinth are most peculiar in the language he uses; here he asks them to bear with him in "a little folly". He says, "indeed bear with me", (2 Corinthians 11:1) as reflecting the patience of God. Let God go on teaching us; how wonderfully patient He is in His teaching. And so He says through Paul, "I have espoused you unto one man, to present you a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear lest

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by any means, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craft, so your thoughts should be corrupted from simplicity as to the Christ", (2 Corinthians 11:2,3) that is the danger, dear brethren. I am aiming now to set aside, to rebuke, in myself and in a general sense, to rebuke whatever the devil is doing, because he is doing much. How often we have to say, "Satan came also", Job 1:6. He is set against the assembly; you say, he is set against Christ, of course he is, but the truth of Christ is out doctrinally, we may say, but the truth of the assembly is not out so clearly. The fact is that it is very little understood, as I said before. I am quite conscious of how little I understand, and yet in my mind I do see something that God is going to bring out, it is the idea of the feminine, and that the saints are all to be in it. Ultimately there will be Christ and the assembly, and the assembly will represent the feminine, and Christ will represent the masculine. I am not saying that that is all, for there are other things to be said, there are the sons of God and the brethren of Christ; eternal thoughts also. I do say that the assembly is going to comprise all that is Christ's in this dispensation; there is no other family in this dispensation but the assembly, and the assembly is being developed, processed if I may use the word, a commercial word, but I am using it now to show how the patience of God is acting; what the patience of God is doing, processing, if I may so express it, the idea of the masculine in man into the idea of the feminine. It is the whole purpose in mind when Paul says, "I have espoused you unto one man, to present you a chaste virgin to Christ", 2 Corinthians 11:2. He means all the saints at Corinth, not all the women, but all the saints at Corinth, and we have to understand what is meant. Well, the presentation time is coming, the Lord Jesus is going to present the assembly to Himself, a glorious assembly, and it is a feminine thought. There are other phases as we have seen; that is, there will be brethren of Christ and sons of God. But the assembly is a feminine

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thought, and it is one of the greatest thoughts that God has, or has had, and has now disclosed. It was hidden for ages, but now it is out, and the Lord would stir up in our hearts an admiration for it, because it is Christ over again, the man over again.

It is in this sense, I believe, that Paul sent the young man Timothy to Corinth, as if he would present in him the idea that he had in mind, the feminine idea; that is, subjection, the idea of subjection. When we come to eternal things we are told that male and female as now existent will disappear, Galatians 3:28, but that does not mean that there will not be the idea of male and female, because it will appear in Christ and the assembly. The Lord would bring us to it, bring us to the idea by processing. Timothy, a young man, suggestively sets out this thought, as reflecting Paul's ways amongst the Corinthians, not his own ways, but Paul's; that is, in subjection he brought in livingly the feminine feature which is eternally glorious in the assembly as "subjected to the Christ", Ephesians 5:24. I hope you will understand. You will if you think and look into the scriptures. God has determined to have the assembly, and His is determined that we shall understand that we belong to it, and that we are to be presented to one man, a chaste virgin to Christ; that is to say, the feminine thought is attachable to us all.

Well, that is my point, my word at this time, and I commend it to the dear brethren. We can see what Paul had in his mind in saying, "Bear with me in a little folly; but indeed bear with me", 2 Corinthians 11:1. We need to wait upon God as He teaches us, and be patient so as to get it; not to be for ever learning and never coming to it, but getting the truth, for we are told to buy the truth and not sell it; that is to say, to go thoroughly in for it. It will cost us something to really get it. And so it is, as I said, it is in this regard that Paul was concerned here in writing to these dear saints, and there were a good many of them at Corinth; you will remember, the Lord said to Paul,

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"Fear not…because I have much people in this city", Acts 18:9,10. He had what I am speaking of in mind, you may be sure he had, not simply that there should be converts, but that there should be the assembly in Corinth. Paul was there for eighteen months, teaching the Corinthians, and in the teaching is what I am speaking of. You can understand how concerned he was that the process that he had in mind should be a success in heaven, as well as on earth, that the genuine thought of God should be there. The Spirit of God is amongst us, the Spirit of God is with us at this very minute, I have no hesitation about that, and He is aiming at what I am saying, that we should come round to the truth of Christ and the assembly, and learn how the thing is to be expressed fully, the masculine expressed fully in Christ and the feminine in the assembly. God will bring us to that, and He is appealing to us, that we may come to it. The dispensation will finish thus, and will not finish until the end is reached. "Then the end", 1 Corinthians 15:24. That word is always applicable; God has His own end in things, and the end comes, and the end of this dispensation is at hand, and again I say, it will require the assembly. The Lord is saying to us, See to it that you get the thought, and enter into it, enjoy it, sing the hymns lustily that speak of it, sing them really, and understand them, so that the service of God involving it may go on, until the end. May God bless His word to us.

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CHRIST'S DISPENSATIONAL LEADERSHIP

Luke 24:50 - 53; Acts 1:6 - 14

The first passage I read, speaks of leadership, the Lord's leadership, and I wish to speak of it, not in the ordinary sense of leadership; that is, of persons being led into new thoughts or regions, but led dispensationally, for that is indeed what the Lord did in leading His own out as far as to Bethany, "as far as". It was not very far, in a literal sense, only a few furlongs from Jerusalem, but in result it really meant that the Lord was leading dispensationally, as I said, and He stopped at Bethany. It was a remarkable time, and what led up to it, too, was remarkable, and indeed solemn, for the Lord had moved from the mountain called the mount of transfiguration. He had moved from that point, having been glorified there, and the movement was to Jerusalem, having in mind that it should be His exit out of this world, but through death; and so it happened. He was put to death according to the record of Peter's address, and also of Acts 4. It was a judicial matter, a most solemn, a most dreadful judicial matter.

And now, as risen from the dead, the Lord is again moving, not from the mount of transfiguration, but from, we may say, the upper room in Jerusalem. The disciples were there, the Lord had not been there, but He came there, and doubtless heard what they were saying, and presently He was in the midst of them, and from that point He went to Bethany. There was much conversation, much adjustment, much instruction, but it was short of what was near to their hearts, namely, whether the kingdom should be restored to Israel then. Their hearts were Jewish, their calculations were Jewish, their outlook was Jewish, but the Lord had His outlook too, the

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Lord had His calculations, His thoughts, and He had joys which were set before Him, but not in Jewish settings. He was going up, but the journey led Him to Bethany, but this was just on the way to heaven for Him. Heaven was His objective, and I might say He hasted, speaking reverently, to get there, for as far as Luke's first account goes, it would appear that this journey was taken on the day of His resurrection. He had much in His heart, great prospects too, the joy that was set before Him as we learn elsewhere; but He was going to heaven. I have already said that it was a dispensational journey, but His going to Bethany was only a part of the journey, and much had to be done before He could resume the great journey that He had before Him; I mean great in the sense of joy for Him, and for God the Father. And so the journey led to heaven, but it was the journey of a priest, and the Lord would not fail to exercise His function as Priest in view of their condition, in view of what He had in His mind, which would affect them. He would set them up, as He is ever ready to do, dear brethren, in such circumstances; He lifted up His hands, we are told, and blessed them. He was parted from them too, which would mean, that there could be no fulfilment of what I may speak of as assembly prospects in the Lord's history here, because He was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

Assembly matters must be left, in measure, for the moment, and how much the Lord had in His mind dear brethren, at that time, and how much has since then come into the minds of the saints too, for the Lord finds ways and means of bringing the truth into our hearts, into our intelligences. But there had to be waiting on His part, and on ours, at least there was on their part. Immediately they had opportunity they would speak about Israel; they were not burdened about the new covenant particularly, though no doubt they had it in their hearts, but they were thinking of the kingdom, rather than the new

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covenant. He had the new covenant in His heart, His blood had been shed, the blood of that covenant; "the new covenant in my blood", Luke 22:20. He said later as He had said already. So that there were many things to think of, and what I am saying I hope will lead the dear brethren now to think of many things, for there are many important things to be thought of. Some of the brethren know what has been thought of in this hall today and yesterday, and the clarification of them will bring, I hope, joy and better service for God, better service generally too, for men, as well as for God, because light is the great clarifying feature. "That which makes everything manifest is light", Ephesians 5:13. Light clarifies, and much had to be clarified for the disciples then, even as for us now.

So the Lord did not say many words, He travelled away from Jerusalem to Bethany, and He served as priest, lifting up His hands as He was parted from them, He blessed them, as if to say that full assembly matters must be postponed for the moment. It was not to be thus for very long, for Paul was on the horizon, I might say; he was not far away, at least in the Lord's mind, and the Lord would wait for him too, for it was a waiting time for heaven, as well as for Israel; not yet for the gentiles, their waiting time would come. But the Lord was ready to wait. He was parted from them; how He would feel the parting, because one of them had lain in His bosom, and there would be a sense of separation. He was parted from them, not they parted from Him, because they remained, no doubt, in their proper attitude, but He was parted from them, and that has its own significance. Nevertheless, with all the partings, and all the vicissitudes that entered into that moment, the Lord was received up in glory, heaven was waiting to hail Him, "be ye lifted up, ye everlasting doors, and the King of glory shall come in", Psalm 24:7. I quote that merely to convey the facts of the case. What an entry He had, what a welcome! The Father had already raised Him by His glory. Think of that; what an

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experience! I say experience, because the Lord had experiences proper to Him as man. And so He entered heaven. It was a wonderful day for heaven, I need not say, but I add, it was a wonderful day for Christ too. Let us not think that He does not wonder at things, because He does, especially if they are experiences of His own, fraught with love, fraught with the prospects of love. It was a wonderful day for Him, but as I said, He was on a journey, on a dispensational journey, and it had not ended when He went to heaven. The dispensational journeys of the Lord were very many. I have no doubt that the Lord had to do with all these matters, all these dispensational matters, from the antediluvian dispensation down, and there were many the Lord Jesus had to do with, He had to do with them in His experiences. There can be no doubt that the Jehovah who visited Abraham at Mamre was Jesus. We do well to think on these things, dear brethren, so as to be reverential about Him, understanding that He had to do with all these things. As to things that are made, He had to do with them all, there was not one thing made without Him, and as regards moral things that had to take form, and have since taken form, and are now taking form, they are all by Him, 1 Corinthians 8:6. And so this dispensational journey is taken by the Lord, as all the dispensations really are, but now we are concerned with the one we have to do with.

God has set aside Israel for the moment, He has not abandoned them; His present action is only for a season, as in the case of the blindness of Barjesus, it is only for a season. God will return to His ancient people. He has not lost His affection for them, He knows how to keep His affections, whatever they may be, to keep them until the time for them arrives, and then He will lavish them on the objects of His love. And so the Lord has now given up His relations with Israel. He lingered long, loath to leave them, but He has left them, and hence the dispensational

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journey that I have been speaking of has been terminated. He has reached another dispensation, and He is going to leave it presently, and return to the old one; He will do that. What Jesus does, God does; He is with Him in all that He is doing. What the Father does He does, and what He does the Father does; John 5 shows this. Hence this dispensational matter is a very important one, because now it involves the clearance of our souls from things that do not belong to us, that ought not to harass us at all, for they belong to another period, and the Lord is going to take care of everything that belongs to it, but He has not yet taken the journey back. He will return to it presently, very soon I believe.

Now referring to the passage in Luke 24, He was on the way to the assembly dispensation, but He has now reached it, removing all the Jewish trammels attaching to it; so that it might stand out in its glory; that we might understand that we belong to a glorious dispensation, the most glorious of all, the one that will run into eternity. The Lord has, through His servant, Paul, taken up all these matters. I am going over ground that I have gone over already in recent times, though perhaps not in the ears of all here, but necessarily so, because I believe the brethren all need to see that christianity is unique in itself, and intended to be glorious in itself, and that the Lord has taken His journey to it, out of Judaism. He is not supporting Judaism now, not in any way, either spiritually, or commercially, or politically. He is not in it at all. He is out of it altogether. He is as free as we are, having set us free, and He is liberating His people from it, bringing them into "the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free", Galatians 5:1. That is the lesson for us. He has come to another dispensation and He is in it, and He is staying in it for the time, in order to get us all into it before we go to heaven. I am sure the Lord contemplates with grief seeing many of His own held with the trammels of religion, as it is called, whether it be paganism,

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Judaism, or worldly christianity. The latter has originated, in the main, from Judaism, and the Lord is labouring to set us all free of it, so that God might get His portion, because every vestige of Judaism is hindering the service of God; wherever it is maintained, or in any way treasured, or cared for, it is hindering the service of God. The Lord is in the new dispensation, He has taken His journey, but I believe the whole position has been cleared for the reverse journey, the one that the Lord is about to take into the millennium.

Now I must proceed to the second passage in order that we may see how patient the Lord was at this time. We can well understand how He participated in the joy of the disciples as they returned to Jerusalem after He went up to heaven; they "returned to Jerusalem with great joy", Luke 24:52. They were in the temple every day, praising and blessing God. The Lord had His part in that, undoubtedly, but it was not to continue; it would soon wane and disappear altogether, as the temple itself has disappeared altogether, in His own judgment, according to what we read in Luke 21, in fulfilment of which the whole Jewish system, with its city, Jerusalem, would be destroyed. It was sorrowful that it should be destroyed, but it was all to the end that what God had in mind should take place. It was to meet the attempted revival of Judaism that the epistle to the Galatians was written when the truth of the liberty of christianity was threatened by the enemy's attack, and the Lord had His man to write it too, that is, Paul.

Now I refer to the Acts, because it is by the same writer; that is, Luke. The book of Acts was written in the careful provision of God. There can be no doubt that as the Lord Jesus told John the evangelist how to write the book of Revelation, the order in which it should be written, that He also told or taught Luke how to write the book of Acts. He wrote it, and his personality enters into it, but the Lord had to do with it; it entered into the

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journeys that I am speaking of. And the Lord waited, waited in the happy enjoyment, I might say, of His people's joy in what remained of Judaism that was according to God. There was that which remained for a time, and which was fresh in the hands of the apostles, fresh in the energy of the Spirit. The Lord had His part in it too, so did the apostles, as I said; they clung to it, and the Lord regarded it according to the place it had had with God. He would think of God's feelings. He was the Messiah, and He was the King too, the King of Israel, as was attributed to Him by Nathanael, for instance, "thou art the Son of God, thou art the King of Israel", John 1:49. That remained true, and the Lord knew it, but I say now, speaking reverently, that the Lord was ready to wait, indeed He just put the disciples off, when they inquired about restoring the kingdom of Israel. "It is not yours to know times or seasons", Acts 1:7. He said. He did not give them a prophetic lecture about it, there was nothing of the kind, just a few words; "It is not yours to know times or seasons", Acts 1:7. How briefly the Lord dealt with prophetic matters at that time. But He was thinking of something else, of the journey He was ready to take, and complete, the dispensational journey which would lead Him fully into christianity, and all the blessings attached to the service of God in christianity. All that was in the Lord's mind; and He was waiting, according to His own perfect knowledge, wisdom, and holiness, until the time came when He could take up christianity wholly and fully, which He did. But, as I said, there was the waiting, the waiting of heaven, and of the blessed God Himself. We were speaking today of God, that He would be "all in all". He will be "all in all" in Israel too, in due course. He will be known thus in all the dispensations, according as He has planned them and made them, but He is wonderfully patient, that is one of the chief things to be understood as to God, His patience. How wonderful it is:

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at the beginning, waiting for the things to happen that He knew would happen in Israel. The longsuffering of God was there; He was there in the disciples going to the temple. They went to the temple, and were there every day praising and blessing God. God had to do with that, but it was to wane and disappear, and it has disappeared.

That is the point I am making, dear brethren, so that we might follow what God is doing, and how He is now seeking to get all that is possible for Him from His people, from ourselves. That is to say, what is accruing to Him. We are they, says the apostle Paul, "who worship by the Spirit of God", "We are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God", Philippians 3:3. That is indeed the only proper way to worship. The public worship of God today, according to God, is "by the Spirit", and no other way. None of the denominations have it at all, not one of them. Worship is only by "the Spirit of God". We are the circumcision; that is, the real christians, the real ones, who are circumcised according to God. Christ has been circumcised in that sense, through His death, and we are too, Colossians 2:11. So that we have part in the true service of God. "We are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and boast in Christ Jesus, and do not trust in flesh", Philippians 3:3. That is what is going on, and that is what God is aiming at, and that is what the Lord is aiming at, and that is what the ministry is aiming at, that we might all be in it. As the Lord returns to the other dispensation, to Israel, coming back to take up the kingdom, He will bring us back with Him. We will have our part in that; we shall shine in the coming dispensation. The assembly will have a great place in it. The "holy city" will come down out of heaven from God and the names of the sons of Israel will be on the gates, and the angels will be identified at the gates with these sons of Israel. We will not be ashamed of them in that day; and the day is nearing too. The Lord will then have taken His journey, His dispensational

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journey, from ourselves to Israel, and we shall have gone up to heaven. He is not leaving us here; no; He is taking us up there first, and then He will take the journey back to Israel. There will be no journey back to Israel until we are gone to heaven, because our place is fixed there. "I go", says the Lord, "to prepare you a place, and if I go…I am coming again and shall receive you to myself, that where I am, ye also may be", John 14:2,3. That has to happen, before we can have this next journey that I am speaking of. And what a series of events! Heaven knows that all this has to happen, so that the Lord can freely leave the western world and take His journey back to the east.

I can visualise it in a way, for I know how the Lord deals with things, with what wisdom, what patience; everything according to the divine plan, nothing going awry in any sense. All is going to be well. The Lord Jesus is to be in charge of all the matters. Before He takes on the government of the world He is going to take the assembly to her place in heaven, and then He will resume His relations with Israel; she will have the first place with Him then, for He is the King of Israel. He will not then say, "It is not for you to know", Acts 1:7. He said that at the beginning, for at that time it was for them to turn to something else, to what was in His heart. The Holy Spirit was coming to do things for Him, and it was for them to wait for Him, and to lay hold of the Holy Spirit, and to carry out the things that the Lord would direct them to do. He has been doing that ever since, and I am assured we are all ready for it. We have had the thing before us today, and yesterday, and I believe that in a sense we re-dedicated ourselves; I am assured that is not saying too much as to many of us. I refer to the journey that the Lord took after He reached Bethany. He was carried up to heaven from there; only the waiting had to take place, and Bethany was a landmark. They would soon know that that position was taken up designedly by

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the Lord. "He led them out as far as Bethany", Luke 24:50. He knew the spot where that part of the matter would stop, and He is taken up from there. They go to Jerusalem, for God was still in Jerusalem, going on with it in grace. God in His patience is allowing them to go, and even to enter the temple, but the Lord's supper was never taken in the temple; the service of God as we have it never proceeded in the temple. It is altogether our own, as indeed the Lord's supper is. "This is my body", He says, "which is for you"; (1 Corinthians 11:24) only for us; for the assembly.

Thus things had to wait, and Luke did not write the second time yet, but it was the design of God that this second treatise of Luke's should be written. I suppose heaven had special delight in him, I think it had. He wrote according to method, and He spoke about the Word, about the Lord Jesus as the Word, the Logos, and that He had attendants, persons who attended Him in that capacity. Paul too in his day had attendants, because the Lord would extend the privileges that He had Himself to His great servant. He knows how to do these things, to touch us, to show that He cares for us, that He is thinking of us, and so He allowed Paul to have his company -- "Paul and his company", Acts 13:13. So, as I said, the waiting went on; the Lord waited in heaven, and then the Spirit came down. Great events these were. And the Lord was superintending them all. He received of the Father the promise of the Spirit, and shed Him forth, we are told. That was a most important action, it has the service to God in mind. Peter was ready to evangelise, but still the Jews came first, the Lord was taking care of them, not yet ignoring them, but He would ignore them, and presently as we had it today, take all that belonged to Him out of Judaism, and incorporate them into the assembly, every one of them.

It was a great time, as Paul and Barnabas laboured at Antioch for a year, incorporating all that were there into the assembly. It was the assembly now, the assembly was

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to be everything. In the meantime it was at Jerusalem in a metropolitan sense and the Lord recognised that. Paul knew that, and he went up "to salute the assembly" at one time, showing how He clung to the thought. The Lord did not disregard that either, because he had Himself greatly regarded it, but now, and this is my point, dear brethren, the matter is changed, and it is for us to come to the real point, the real facts of the case, that christianity is a reality in itself set up in the power of the Spirit of God. The Spirit is in control, in control subjectively here, as the Lord is in control in heaven; the two great Persons, the Lord in heaven and the Spirit here; the Lord in heaven as a High Priest there, and the Spirit here as a Comforter, the other Comforter, and so the dispensation goes on. It is in full sway now, but it may end at any moment, and I would seek to touch the hearts of the brethren as to this matter. I hope that I have said enough to indicate what is in mind, and what is imminent at the present time, what may happen at any time, that we shall all be caught up together, because that is the word. Let us not be simply theoretic about it; I am speaking of real facts, as real as any can be, that the Lord is coming, and He is preparing us to go there. Presently He will be preparing Israel to take its place here on earth, she belongs to the earth, not to heaven. There is no change in the mind of God in that respect, because it is a question of the fathers, "the promises of the fathers", Romans 15:8. God loves the fathers, and He is going to restore all that belonged to them, all that belonged to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and all that belonged to royalty too, in Israel, the King, Christ Himself being the King; how rejoiced He will be, as all will come back, according to the divine plan, all be reinstated here on earth, so that "all Israel shall be saved", Romans 11:26. How real that is, and as we think of what is current now, what a contrast; when these men that we are hearing of every day in such pitiable circumstances and violent,

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wicked circumstances too, shall be changed by the new birth in the power of the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God will come in as effecting new birth in them, so that Israel shall be born in a day. These are great facts, and in another sense all Israel will stand up as a great army, according to Ezekiel 37.

All these realities are about to take place. In the meanwhile we have our satisfaction in the assembly, in Christ and the assembly. That is where our joys are. Not that we ignore all else, as I said, but our joys are in Christ and in the assembly, and His joys are in us too, in the assembly; and the Father has His joys there also. We have to think of what God has, as the Lord Jesus is set up with His bride; but what glorious thoughts and terms are to be employed. Think of the marriage of the Lamb! What a time it will be when it is said, "the marriage of the Lamb is come"! Not will come but is come, "and his wife has made herself ready", Revelation 19:7. See how everything is happening, according to the Lord's mind and plan, and we are essential to it. These meetings are all intended to be essential and to make our hearts rejoice in the things that we are coming into, at any moment. I believe the Lord would make us realistic as to these matters, not merely theoretic, but realistic, knowing that these things are about to happen. Why not expect them to happen? Why not be ready? "His wife has made herself ready", Revelation 19:7. That is what the Lord is thinking of, and we are to be of His mind. Let us be in readiness for what is coming about in the saints, through the ministry of the Spirit. So may God use these words to help us all.

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PROGRESSIVE SPIRITUAL EDUCATION

John 8:30 - 36

What is in mind is to speak about spiritual education, progressive spiritual education. The thought in the idea of progressiveness is that the education will work out into aggressiveness for the truth. The idea of progress is common in the Scriptures, especially in John's gospel, progress in the truth. It is found indeed elsewhere, even from the very beginning. It is seen in Enoch, whom we may regard as the first great progressive learner. It is said of him that he was "the seventh from Adam", (Jude 1:14) meaning that he had progressed in what had come out from God from Adam onward, Adam being marked by the acquirement of truth; Jehovah Himself having taken part in Adam's education, this, of course, was to be expected. It is said that God brought to Adam the creatures of the land, in fact all the creatures but especially the land animals, for they were that feature of creation which would be nearest to Adam, to man; they were to be domesticated, and thus usable by Adam. To this end it was needful that Adam should know their names, that he might have means of having to say to them; and so it was that God "brought them to Man", Genesis 2:19. The word man there denotes the most elevated of God's creatures, what we speak of as humanity, and God brought the creatures to man, "to see what he would call them", Genesis 2:19.

It is clear, as I am sure you will all see, that there was education in this, and that it was progressive, and man soon began to think that there was someone missing. Woman had not yet been formed, and Adam missed her, for among the animals there was not one of them that was like Adam; "he found no helpmate, his like" (Genesis 2:20) we are told, showing that he was progressing. Were he not

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progressing he would not think of a helpmate; he realised the need of this on account of some education that had come to him from God, and God acted on the results of that, so that the progress itself was from God. When the woman is brought to him, although he was asleep, in death figuratively, while she was being formed and fitted for him, yet as he awakes, he discerns who and what she is. It is not recorded that Jehovah said anything to him as to her, as if He would test out the progress of Adam, and presently it came out. You understand that I am not speaking simply to arrest your attention by any department of nature, even although it be a man, my motive is much deeper than that, it is indeed that everyone of us may not only know the truth, but progress in knowing, as indeed it is said in the prophets, "and we shall know". The question is whether we do know; "and we shall know, -- we shall follow on to know Jehovah", Hosea 6:3. That is progress, and that is what is in mind.

Again referring to Adam, whilst Jehovah was saying nothing to him, Adam said something, which indicated that he was progressing, progressing in knowledge of God's creatures, but now of man, but man in its feminine feature, and he spoke to God about this. It is to be noted here that from Genesis 2, God has a double name; 'Jehovah Elohim' is the designation, meaning that there is progress also in what God is bringing out, and pointing to progress even in God's sympathies and feelings towards man. It is not that God is like ourselves, learning; that could never be, one would not use that word at all as to God. It is said prophetically of the Lord Jesus, in anticipation of His coming into manhood condition, that His ear was opened as the learner. "The Lord Jehovah hath given me the tongue of the instructed, that I should know how to succour by a word him that is weary. He wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the instructed", Isaiah 50:4.

We get great headway in divine education in the book

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I have alluded to, the book of Hosea; the prophet says, "and we shall know, -- we shall follow on to know Jehovah", Hosea 6:3. Adam is not following on to know God exactly, but he is following on in the point in question, and he says to Jehovah Elohim, "this time", for he had had several times afforded to him to give expression to the knowledge that God gave him, and in which he was growing and developing, but now he says, "This time it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh: this shall be called Woman, because this was taken out of a man", Genesis 2:23. You see how he is learning. I am noting all this that we might all be led on in learning, and it is to be hoped, that we shall not leave this hall at this time without having learned something, something more than we came in with, because there is something to be learned, even in the Scriptures as they are read.

So as I said, there was progress as early as Adam, and then in Enoch, who is said to be "the seventh from Adam", Jude 1:14. We read of this in the book of Jude, and that Enoch prophesied. Adam did not prophesy, but Enoch did, and it is said of him that he was the seventh from Adam, not after Adam, because the idea is that he began with Adam, as a learner he saw there was something to be learned from God's great creature; that is, Adam. Enoch is "the seventh from Adam", (Jude 1:14) and if we analyse the matter we must begin with Seth, and those following after Seth, seven in all, and we shall see that we are in the very midst of progress, of spiritual progress. We are in the way of knowing things, and of acquiring knowledge that is necessary for us, even in the service of God, because it all culminates in the knowledge of God Himself. All must culminate in God, all begins with Him, it did not begin with Adam, knowledge began with God. And so Enoch was the seventh, and clearly had acquired more than his fellows, for he became a prophet, and it is said that "before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God", Hebrews 11:5. It is not said of Adam that he

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pleased God, but it is said of Enoch, so that he progressed from Adam. That is what I am aiming at; this matter of progression; that we should not be content with what we know today, but add to it, continually add, for there is so much to know, and that we need to know for our comfort and blessing, and so much that we need to know for God's service. Paul said, "we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God", Philippians 3:3. We should not be hesitating to say who we are; we are not of this world, if we are christians, and yet we have an identity, an identity in heaven, and especially as those who have part in the service of God, who are thinking of God, thinking of serving God. And so, "we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God", (Philippians 3:3) that is what we are, and surely there is nothing more glorious than to be worshippers of God and worshippers of Him by the Spirit of God, the perfect means of worship.

Well, now, I have spoken about Adam in the light of his progress, and now I go on to John, who presents much of this knowledge in the sense of progress, and what John says as to new birth illustrates it. It is a very important matter, and it is for each to inquire into his mind; I say into his mind, not into his heart now, but into his mind, to see whether he understands new birth, whether he is born anew. Some may assume that it is everything, that you can lock up in the idea of new birth the whole of christianity, and comfort yourself with the thought that everything is there, but that is a mistake; you will be ignorant if you do that, because the idea of progression is in it, and this is illustrated in the third chapter of John's gospel. Nicodemus said to the Lord, "We know that thou art come a teacher from God", John 3:2. Well, that was something, a very great matter too, to belong to a class of people who know. He was of the Pharisaic class, and yet he had some regard for God and for Christ, and so he can say to the Lord, "We know that thou art come a teacher from God, for none can

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do these signs that thou doest, unless God be with him"; (John 3:2) well, that was good, and the Lord recognised it. But then, that was to be known in the Old Testament, and though it was no part of Adam's knowledge, the new birth was a part of Ezekiel's knowledge, and now it is a part of christian knowledge. It is a very initial part, and I would counsel any who are confining themselves to it, and thinking that it involves everything called truth, to look into the matter. New birth is very initial, but it affords an example of what I am aiming at, the idea of progress in a given truth. The Lord says to Nicodemus, "Except any one be born anew he cannot see the kingdom of God", John 3:3. Nicodemus never had such a word before, I suppose, and yet he was a remarkable man, no ordinary Pharisee, he is marked off as distinct from all others. "But there was a man from among the Pharisees, his name Nicodemus…he came to him by night", John 3:1,2.

Now I am not only saying that these things happened, but that there is progress involved, progress in the truth, and it is for each of us to see that even in that initial feature he has progressed. As we progress in it, it will be just a stepping stone to something else, and that something else is eternal life, and other truths of that kind, the great truth of redemption, the death of Christ, the resurrection of Christ, the ascension of Christ, the incoming of the Spirit, all these things are there basically, the basis is laid for them in the things I have spoken of. But as I said, new birth is the most initial thought of the whole system of truth; it begins with this, but there is a second thought as to it, which is necessary to make it clear, so that it becomes a part of the structure of truth of which Christ is the expression, for He is called the truth, "I am the way, the truth, and the life", John 14:6. The way is one thing, but then the truth is another, and then the life is still another, and the Lord, in order to indicate what I have been saying, spoke the second time to Nicodemus. Nicodemus asked the question, "How can a man be born being

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old"? John 3:4. He could not see that, but he was taught; many are not taught now as to this matter. So the Lord says, "Except any one be born of water and of Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God", John 3:5. That is progress. I cannot proceed further as to this because I have much to say in the short hour; I have indicated to you that initially the truth is progressive; and no christian is really christian characteristically, who is not progressing in the truth. We cannot afford to stop at any given point; we want to go on, to progress in the truth.

Now I come to the scripture read in John 8, which refers to liberty, and I want to show that the verses read are progressive, that we are to progress in liberty, otherwise we shall soon slip back into bondage; we shall soon forget that we are purged from our former sins. We must be going forward, and so it says here of the Lord, that "As he spoke these things many believed on him", John 8:30. One hopes that some are getting some little light in their souls now, for it is a time of light. Light is available, truth is available; and the Lord was speaking in His own divine way to those that were about Him, ever ready to instruct them, to afford help to men, and "As he spoke these things many believed on him", John 8:30. It does not say what they believed, but they believed on Him, which is a very general thought, and indeed in result meant progression, and we shall see, that unless we believe in a progressive sense we shall become dark again. If we settle down to any given system of truth, or any phase of the truth, and do not progress we shall become dark; we shall forget that we are purged from our former sins; but it is said here that "many believed on him", (John 8:30) as He spoke these things. It was wonderful speaking, John 8 is one of the most wonderful parts of the Bible. It is a very long chapter, a very deep chapter, and you can understand how God was working and how many would believe on Him. It is hoped that some are believing now, because it is a progressive matter, and one hopes that we,

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even the speaker himself, shall have added to our knowledge as we leave this hail. Many believed on Jesus there, as He spoke these words; then said Jesus to those Jews, which believed on Him, "If ye abide in my word, ye are truly my disciples", John 8:31.

We should observe here that there is a question as to some of them, because there are disciples and disciples; some went back, you know, and some, we are told in the second chapter, believed only because of the signs, and the Lord did not trust them, which is a very searching matter, that the Lord maybe does not trust some of us here, we are not reliable, we are not going on, we are not progressing in the truth, and the Lord does not trust us. And so it was that He did not trust certain ones, because they only believed because of the signs. We need to believe on Him, in a greater sense than that, and so it is said here, "Jesus therefore said to the Jews who believed on him, If ye abide in my word, ye are truly my disciples; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free", John 8:31,32. Now this is the great point that I have in mind as to progress. Many of them had believed on Him, but they were not free. And the Lord is testing them; He is testing us too, this very time, as to where we are, and as to how much we can be trusted as believers. And so the Lord is testing these listeners, and He says, "If ye abide in my word ye are truly my disciples", John 8:31 The Lord would have true disciples; He is not looking for superficial disciples. Christendom is built up on those lines, and it is a question of numbers, but it is a spurious position, abhorrent to heaven. It is building up systems of men that are on unreliable grounds, on a sandy foundation, and hence the Lord would correct it. "And ye shall know the truth", He says, "and the truth shall set you free", John 8:32. The truth shall do it, and I shall hope to show that the Lord does it too, but the truth has that power.

There are phases of the truth that are automatic, as it

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were, they work of themselves, in virtue of what God is doing in men's souls. If it is only automatic it will fall flat presently, but it is necessary at first; thus the effect of truth is to set free. We shall see presently in the next verse that the Son also sets free; the Lord sets free as the Son of God, but the truth sets free, and the setting free by the truth is an initial idea; it works of itself and if I am not getting freer and freer it is because the truth is not working in me, there is some defect, and we want to remedy that defect, and see to it that the truth is allowed to work within us. As we might expect from superficial persons, they answered the Lord, "We are Abraham's seed, and have never been under bondage to any one", John 8:33. These are not only superficial suggestions, they are untruthful, the persons are untruthful, and that shows how the truth works, and exposes those who are not accepting it. If the truth is not operating in us, then we shall be exposed; it will come out that we are ready to tell untruths, without hesitation, without blush. Listen to what they say; "We are Abraham's seed, and have never been under bondage to any one", John 8:33. That was a lie, a political lie; yet it is the statement of those already regarded as believing on the Lord Jesus; how it shows the need of reliability, and of learning the truth, of being affected by it. They say, "How sayest thou, Ye shall become free"? John 8:33. The Lord had said that, and He is going to say it again, and say more as to it. "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily"; (John 8:34) the word is repeated, and it is a phrase that is only found with John; Verily, verily; truly, truly, that is; it is the truth. It is found, I think, about twenty-five times in this gospel, showing the importance of what I am saying, that we should be saying the truth, and only the truth, and we should repudiate the lie, acknowledge it too, if it is exposed. "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say to you, Every one that practices sin is the bondman of sin. Now the bondman abides not in the house for ever: the son abides for ever", John 8:34,35. This refers to the liberating

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power of the truth, but not simply of the truth, it is the liberating power of the Son of God; it is a matter of sonship.

One of the most important truths that we have revived in these last days, while, of course, it was always in the Scriptures, and the great feature of John's gospel, is the truth relative to the Son of God. In his epistle, he says, "we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding that we should know him that is true; and we are in him that is true, in his Son Jesus Christ", and then, "He is the true God and eternal life", 1 John 5:20. It is in the working out of the truth of sonship that we arrive at liberty, because sonship is a matter that relates to the Person of Christ. It is a feature of the Person of Christ; and it ends up in this, in John's epistle, that "He is the true God and eternal life", 1 John 5:20. I was saying a moment ago that new birth lays the basis for eternal life, but now the basis of it is that Christ is eternal life, but He is the true God too. There is no time to enlarge on these things, but every one of us ought to make sure that he is progressing in these matters, progressing in the truth of Christ, who He is, and what He is, and arriving at what we have here in John's epistle, that "He is the true God and eternal life", 1 John 5:20. If we are to progress in the truth, let us be sure that we have these wonderful facts in our souls, as to who Jesus is. As become flesh He is the Son, and He is the true God; in His Person He is the true God; He has not become the true God, beloved. He has become Man, but He is the true God; He ever was the true God, personally, and so we are built up in the progressive line, as I said, of truth as to the Person of Christ.

Now I must come back to the thought of liberty, of liberation, because I have gone a little too far, and yet not too far, because it was necessary that I should go the whole length, so that we should have before us the truth as to Christ's Person, namely, that He is the true

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God. It would be blasphemy to say that He became the true God, He did not, He is that. He is the Maker of everything. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"; (John 1:1) that is the truth of Christ's Person. It is a solid rock that cannot be overthrown, and every believer's feet should be solidly on it, so that he may not be swept away with the wickedness and the blasphemies of the present day, but be saved from these blasphemies, and repudiate them. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God", John 1:1. What a beautiful setting out of progressive truth. He was with God, but He was God. "All things received being through him"; and "without him not one thing received being which has received being", John 1:3 These are the facts, dear brethren, of John's first chapter of his gospel; they are foundational, and it is of the very last importance that every one of us, old and young, should have our feet upon that solid rock, the solid rock of the truth of Christ's Person, that He is God, but then He is the Son of God. Anyone that says that Christ was the Son of God before time, is not speaking the truth, He has not laid hold of the truth. There is no time to go into that, but I am briefly stating it, that you should have it in your souls, that the Son is Christ as become Man. He is Son as Man; He is God too, His Person remains the same. He is the great Mediator of God on earth as the Son, and so it is that He liberates; the truth also liberates, but the Son brings out the progressive idea of the liberation.

The epistle to the Galatians works out the truth of liberation in a way, "the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free"; (Galatians 5:1) hence Galatians is of great importance on this point. Paul says to those saints, in Galatia, "Jerusalem above is free, which is our mother", (Galatians 4:26) not your mother, but our mother; that is to say she is the mother of christians; it is a maternal thought attaching to the assembly, not as it is here, although it includes that.

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"Jerusalem above is…our mother", Galatians 4:26. She is above, that is the thought of elevation, but then she is also the heavenly Jerusalem, which is spoken of in the epistle to the Hebrews. She is the heavenly Jerusalem, and hence is to be gloried in; our mother is no less than Jerusalem above, and no less than heavenly Jerusalem, and no less than the city, the new Jerusalem that comes down from God out of heaven. She is no less than any of those things. She is the bride and spouse of Christ; that is what she is; and all this involves what I am speaking of now, involves liberty, progressive liberty, dear brethren. The first element is the truth; "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free", John 8:32. That is what I have spoken of as an automatic matter, and yet not wholly automatic, because it is a spiritual matter and the Holy Spirit has to do with it. Then the next statement is that the son abides in the house for ever, and "If therefore the Son shall set you free, ye shall be really free", John 8:36. That is the great thought, progressive thought, as to this liberty, of which I am speaking; it hinges on the truth of Christ being the Son, the Son of God, and that He abides in the house for ever. "The son abides for ever", (John 8:35) the servant does not, the servant can be ejected, or dismissed, but not the Son. Ishmael was a type, but not of a son; Ishmael was born of Hagar, born after the flesh, and he "persecuted him that was born according to Spirit", Galatians 4:29. We have to understand this and be on our guard against any persecuting influence, anything that persecutes what is of Christ, what is of sonship, either in Christ, or in us.

Now the great end here, the great progressive end, is liberty, the liberty that Christ affords to us. "If therefore the Son shall set you free, ye shall be really free", John 8:36. He abides in the house for ever, and hence, dear brethren, one would hope that as we leave we may have something more in our souls; we may have had it before, but then, that it may be accentuated; that the

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truth may be accentuated at this time, according to the full height of it. It is really infinite in itself, because Christ is the truth, and another thing now is that the Spirit is the truth. Hence in this matter of liberty, we are fortified by Christ Himself as the Son, and the Spirit too, and we are to stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has set us free.