Pages 1 - 248 -- "Notes of Readings in New York and other Ministry", 1947 (Volume 172).
Matthew 1:1 - 25; Matthew 2:1 - 12
J.T. The brethren will be aware that it has been decided, under God, as we trust, to look into the gospel of Matthew in this series of readings. What underlies this proposal is largely, that the heavenly position of the assembly has been much stressed, and rightly, for it is heavenly, it is the thought now to balance this by considering the assembly as here on earth. The vessel that was seen by Peter in Acts 10, came down from heaven as a great sheet bound by the four corners. It was let down to earth, but was received up again into heaven and remained there. The sheet being bound by the four corners would mean that it was secure; what was in the sheet was also secure, and the creatures were cleansed, as the second voice declared. Whilst the assembly is heavenly yet its members are historically earthly. All have been born upon earth, and further, they have been born of God on earth, and Matthew has in mind that these things have an important bearing on us.
Pentecost contemplates a large number of persons being converted. We have no such numbers later, and although, it is said, that the number of the men had become five thousand, the Scripture tells us, that the result of one day's work was three thousand converts. Acts 2:41. It is believed that Matthew has all this in mind. The stability and reliability of what is of God in christianity is in mind and also the distinction attached to it, even as to the personnel and their ancestry; whence they came and how they were here for God, running on through the generations under the
head of fourteen. There are three fourteens of generations. The greatness of the personnel and their ancestry is in mind, so that God is not ashamed of His people from Matthew's point of view. He is not ashamed to be called their God.
It is thought that the Lord will help us to look into things from this standpoint, but especially to see the character of the persons that are in mind and mentioned with such evident accuracy under the formal heads of three fourteens. So that we may well repeat Solomon's word: "Thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people", 1 Kings 3:8. They are not great in the human or outward sense, but they are according to God; not only because they are going to be in heaven, but because of their present stability and reliability. These generations were stable. Men who are mentioned in the list were of the highest character whom God honoured and used. The genealogy therefore runs down through them to the Christ. So that the Lord's own genealogy is honourable in that sense, especially in Joseph the husband of Mary being so distinguished. We have here, "Book of the generation of Jesus Christ, Son of David, Son of Abraham".
A.N.W. Would the Lord's own words at the end of the gospel confirm what you say? He says, "All power has been given me in heaven and upon earth", chapter 28: 18. And then in verse 20, "And behold, I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age".
J.T. That would be in view of all this, I would say. He is with us in view of all that is actually stated in Matthew. He is here in the assembly. He is not spoken of as having gone up to heaven, according to Matthew's account. He is here where the saints are. He is the great Person that is in mind, and to reach Him is the end in view -- the Christ, as He is called, chapter 1: 17: "From the carrying away of Babylon unto the Christ". He is
no less a Person than the Christ and these are His generations.
J.S. Would verse 1 be a sort of key to the book?
J.T. "Book of the generation of Jesus Christ, Son of David, Son of Abraham". If the word key may be used it would be just that. He is not presented as Son of God -- the point is not that. He is the Son of David and the Son of Abraham; but He is the Christ. That is the point according to this gospel.
W.F.K. Why is Adam left out of this gospel?
J.T. He is not great enough. He is discredited almost at the outset. In Genesis, however, we have, "This is the book of Adam's generations", but clearly God must directly choose Christ's generation. There were persons of great distinction prior to Abraham but God is not thinking of them here. In Matthew, certain ones are rejected from the line of the kings because their parents were not suitable; although they were in the line of David they are left out as unsuitable. God did not see that it would honour the line to leave them in. I think, if we see that God is making a careful selection of these generations, and that He has His own mind in making up the list, then we shall see that the persons are great and suitable from His point of view.
A.B.P. What is the purpose of four women being mentioned in the list?
J.T. They are great by reason of the work of God in them even though there may be discrediting things about them, as there are about all of us. The discrediting things that have happened in our lives do not set aside the greatness that we have from God's point of view. I believe that John supports Matthew in that sense, showing that we are children of God, the right having been given to us to take that place as believing on His name, "who have been born, not of blood, nor of flesh's will, nor of man's will, but of God". It is a question of family distinction or glory which is granted
to the saints of this dispensation. Thus it is said, "See what love the Father has given to us, that we should be called the children of God", 1 John 3:1.
A.B.P. Would Judah's admission that Tamar was more righteous that he show that she was qualified to have her name in this line?
J.T. Quite so. It shows that she is a fit person to be in this noble lineage. Ruth also, and Rahab, had distinguished themselves as subjects of the work of God. Solomon's mother was distinguished in that she had been the wife of Urias.
T.E.H. These two great fathers in the genealogy had distinguished sons -- Isaac and Solomon. Do they help to enhance the greatness of Abraham and David? Solomon said, "For I was a son unto my father, tender and an only one in the sight of my mother", Proverbs 4:3. And Isaac was the outcome of a great man like Abraham.
J.T. Very good! Solomon was a son unto his father and Isaac went up to mount Moriah doing the will of his father. These two sons bring out, typically, the unique character of our Lord's sonship.
A.R. Royalty seems to take the lead in this gospel -- Son of David -- and then it says, later, "David the king", and then, "Joseph, son of David".
J.T. That is to bring out the distinction in the line -- "David the king". It is a question of the king -- royalty.
A.R. Do you think that royalty should mark us in administrative matters in the assembly?
J.T. We shall see, as we proceed in Matthew, that Jerusalem is the city of the great King and how much is said of the kingdom. Royalty, and rule as flowing out of it, are God's thought, not Bolshevism, or Communism, which are satanic.
F.H.L. You spoke of John supporting this line in Matthew. Revelation 22:16 says, "I am the root and offspring of David".
J.T. The root is the greater of the two for the root refers to Deity, and hence it establishes just what we are saying, for the root is Christ. The personnel are in mind, who they are, and their origin, and the chief amongst them is the Christ, and He is God. Emmanuel, one of the names given to Christ here, is, "God with us".
C.A.M. Would you say a word as to the expression used in the prophet Isaiah and quoted in Acts 8:33; "who shall declare his generation?"
J.T. That is the passage that the eunuch was reading; Isaiah 53. It is not to be ignored that he was reading such a chapter as that, and that he was a great man, a great personage with the queen. And the magi were great persons, too, as seen in Matthew 2.
C.A.M. Would it be right to say that there is an answer to that question in that with which we are occupied?
J.T. "Who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living", Isaiah 53:8. The quotation in Acts 8 is from the Septuagint. There is no doubt that the Holy Spirit as here would adjust our minds as to all difficult passages, and clarify everything for us; at the same time we are to bear in mind that there is no attempt to clarify the inscrutable. "No one knows the Son but the Father, nor does anyone know the Father, but the Son", Matthew 11:27. There is the inscrutable which we cannot compass. At the same time the Holy Spirit, as I said, is here to clarify everything that a creature should know, and Christ's generation mentioned in Isaiah 53 is not what is before us in Matthew 1. That is connected with Christ's life which was taken from the earth. Christ's life as here in the flesh was unique. No one but Himself had part in it; what He has now is a risen glorified life. What He had in flesh and blood was laid down in death and it seems to me it may be regarded as without generation:
what He took on in resurrection was life in a wholly new condition.
C.N. Will you tell us why these generations finish with the Christ?
J.T. Well, it is a question of the Christ. The Samaritan woman said, "Is not He the Christ?" as if she were a person who would find out. She asked a question, but the Lord had told her who He was: "I who speak to thee am he". So that there are those who find things out by inquiry in the temple of God as it says, "... and to inquire of him in his temple", Psalm 27:4. We find things out by inquiry in the temple of God.
A.B.P. Does the name Jesus involve mystery?
J.T. Well, that is a proper question to bring up, because the word in verse 21 is, "Thou shalt call his name Jesus". We have already been speaking about the brethren and what we are called, that is, "children of God"! But here it says, "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus". Joseph is to give the name. And then it goes on to say, "... for he shall save his people from their sins". Thus the idea of saviour is involved in the name Jesus. Then the last verse says, that Joseph "knew her not until she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus". And then there is another word which is to be noted, in verse 23: "Behold the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which is, bring interpreted, 'God with us'". So that what is said under the heading of name is remarkable, both as to Emmanuel and as to Jesus. There is a footnote, referring to the name Joshua, in Exodus 17:9, which reads, 'Jah the Saviour, called Jesus in Greek: see Hebrews 4:8'. So that I think we may say that there is mystery in the name.
E.A.R. You were alluding elsewhere to the fact that there were three persons who visited Abraham in the
manifestation in Genesis 18, and one of them was none other than Jesus. Would the name in that way convey the great mystery of the incarnation?
J.T. Just so; John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16 show that He is the active One in the Godhead. As to what was said of Matthew at the beginning of the meeting, it is not simply that we are to be with Him in heaven, but He is with us here; in Matthew it is "God with us". God is here tonight with us.
C.A.M. Philip preaching Jesus would satisfy the inquiry of the eunuch.
A.N.W. So that the Christ is the anointed Man. Thus would Jesus involve the Godhead?
J.T. Well, just so. Some of us were speaking as to Philippians recently, and about the designation Christ Jesus: "For let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus", chapter 2: 5. That is the anointed Man. But Jesus is the greater really, for it is Jah the Saviour. It implies Deity.
A.P.T. In Hebrews 13 it says, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and to the ages to come", verse 8. Does that fit in with what you have been saying in regard to the inscrutability of His Person?
J.T. I think that is right: He is "the Same". Psalm 102:24 - 27.
F.H.L. In Isaiah 9:6, it says, "his name is called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace". Would that enter into the illuminating of the name?
J.T. Just so; it is the name, and hence the striking allusion in the baptismal formula in the end of this gospel -- the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. It is the question of the name of the three Persons. It is one name.
J.T.Jr. Is the Christ the same as the Messiah or does it go further?
J.T. The two names are equivalent it the original. Messiah, of course, is the Hebrew, and Christ is the Greek.
J.T.Jr. I was thinking of what was made known to Daniel. It was the Messiah, alluding to the coming in of the Messiah to change everything for the Jews, Daniel 9:25, 26. It is not an allusion to a personal name, but rather to His office.
J.T. It is the Messiah, the Prince, and means the Anointed, and the Head and Ruler.
S.M. The woman of John 4 says, "I know that Messias is coming, who is called Christ".
J.T. She had that understanding.
J.T.Jr. The prophet Isaiah speaks of Immanuel. Is that more personal?
J.T. Immanuel is "God with us". The word El is God, and is a name of power that is much used in the Old Testament.
J.T.Jr. With further reference to the name Joshua in Exodus 17that name comes in in regard to conflict. What would you say as to that?
J.T. I suppose it would be symbolical in that chapter. It is the great conflict called the battle of Rephidim. It is said, "For the hand is on the throne of Jah; Jehovah will have war with Amalek from generation to generation!" The word generation is not to be overlooked because we are dealing with generations here and the war is going on. It would be Amalek in the spiritual meaning, as alluding to the devil acting through the flesh. It is what the flesh is as representing Satan and the combat goes on. Hence it says in Ephesians, "Our struggle is not against blood and flesh, but against principalities, against authorities, against the universal lords of this darkness, against spiritual power of wickedness in the heavenlies", chapter 6: 12. I think the passage in Exodus serves us well, not only as to the Lord's name, but as to His
military prowess, because Revelation 19 brings out how He is to wage war.
C.N. So that in Philippians 2 it says, "Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and granted him a name, that which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly and earthly and infernal beings, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to God the Father's glory". That involves His prowess in a military sense.
T.N.W. Is the greatness of the position established by the record of the Lord's ancestry going back to David and Abraham?
J.T. God has made a selection of these persons. Matthew gives us their names. They are all distinguished. The beginnings of the gospels afford much light as to the Lord's Person. John begins with the greatest thought; that is, that He is God. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". Then Luke says, "Wherefore the holy thing also which shall be born shall be called Son of God", chapter 1: 35. And Mark says, "Beginning of the glad tidings of Jesus Christ, Son of God". So that the gospels afford light as to the Lord's Person. But Matthew is peculiar in that he makes so much of the ancestry of the Lord, who is said to be the Christ in the verses of which we have been speaking. Why should there be so much made of the persons, and why such a selection? Why should some be eliminated that might ordinarily have a place in the genealogy? I raise the question to confirm what we have already said. We are to ask questions. The Spirit of God makes much of questions, and these Bible readings open up the truth through questions and answers, but it is through the Holy Spirit having part in it all, and fitting us to have part in it, too, and the answers to our questions will come through Him. So, why the number of
persons, forty-two persons? There were those that might have been numbered, but they are eliminated, because of the moral conditions that existed, especially because of their affinity with Jezebel. They refer to the supreme effort of the devil, in this dispensation, in a certain system that is running on to the end. Jezebel is the type of it. It is because of Jezebel having part with certain kings that they are left out of the genealogy. They are not fit to be in it, showing that God is making much of the personnel of the generations of Jesus Christ. We are to examine each one, whence he came and what marked him.
E.A.K. Is it the thought to call attention to what is divinely selected, set over against a darkening background, in the references to the three divisions of fourteen generations each? Nationally, the position is declining, but the divine selection is maintained, would you say, bringing in the Christ, despite the decline?
J.T. Yes; the decline did not eliminate or in any way set aside the lowliness that existed when our Lord was born. Luke brings this out especially, and stresses the holiness of the persons who had to do with Him. The present is a time of lowliness and a day of small things, but the Christ makes up for all that. He is going to fill the universe; so that He can make up for any smallness that may attach to us because of outward circumstances. I think the address to Philadelphia is to be noted in that same sense; "thou hast a little power". But the little is made up for by the Lord Jesus Himself in the place He has in the letter to Philadelphia. Love has a great place in that letter, too. Love makes up for the smallness.
J.A.P. The apostle says that David fell asleep and saw corruption after he had ministered in his own generation to the will of God, but in speaking of the Lord Jesus he says, "he raised him from among the
dead, no more to return to corruption", Acts 13:34. Is that what we are to come to?
J.T. Yes; the Person who has annulled death and brought life and incorruptibility to light.
W.W.M. Would you say that the affection of the apostle for Israel is seen in Romans 9 as he speaks of his brethren? He goes on to say, "... whose are the fathers; and of whom, as according to flesh, is the Christ, who is over all, God blessed for ever", verse 5. It would affect him as he considered these generations all down the line.
A.A.T. You suggested that John's presentation of the Lord as God is greater than what we are considering?
J.T. Yes. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God", John 1:1. You cannot have anything greater than God. But that is John's line. Matthew is dealing with what is down here, and what is capable, and distinguished enough for God to attach Himself to and attach His testimony to. And so we do not get the record of the Lord being translated in Matthew, because it is a question of what is down here. He is down here; and hence it is "God with us" in Matthew. Ephesians 2:6 would say that we are to be up there, even as the Lord said, "that where I am ye also may be", John 14:3. But in Matthew the Lord is seen as down here where He is needed, where the power is needed: "There am I in the midst of them", chapter 18: 20, and also, "Behold, I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age", chapter 28: 20.
J.T.Jr. In Matthew 1 the Spirit of God proceeds with the generations until He comes to Joseph and Mary. It says, "Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ", verse 16. It is very carefully worded.
J.T. Yes; it refers to this great Personage. We
should note, that it is "of whom was born Jesus". Luke tells us that the angel said, "The holy thing also which shall be born shall be called Son of God". The stress is laid on Mary here as well as Joseph, but much more is made of Joseph, because it is a question of the male side and that he is the son of David.
C.N. Is it in your mind that the qualities that are seen in these generations should be seen now in the assembly?
J.T. Quite so; because we have the Person who can do things now in the Christ. We have reached the Christ. When we reach the full thought of christianity we must attribute the Spirit's presence to Him for He has sent down the Spirit. That is really how the truth stands, that He has sent down the Spirit, so that everything is now under Him, the coming in of the Spirit and all that the Spirit does stands in relation to the Christ.
F.N.W. In verse 17 it says, "... unto the Christ". Would that be an assurance to us at the present time, that the chain of generations will carry on to the coming of the Lord; what is of God here will stand?
J.T. What we have been saying as to the generations is historical. If you have in mind what is effected through the gospel, then there would be something in that, but the force of what is before us now is the historical thing. The names and the number of these great forefathers are recorded and they extend to the Christ.
W.F.K. Does Abraham come first because he is the father of us all according to faith?
J.T. Well, he comes first in the sense of genealogy, but David comes first in the sense of distinction: "Son of David, Son of Abraham". Seemingly, the idea is that royalty is the leading feature because it is a question of persons. We might say that David could not be greater than Abraham, but then that is not the way it is put
here. Christ is not said to be the root of Abraham; He is the root of David. The stress is laid on the king.
W.F.K. The apostle says, in Romans 4, that Abraham is the father of us all.
J.T. That is true, but now we are dealing with distinctions. God is dealing with distinctions, and He is eliminating certain persons because they do not have distinction. Faith is not the subject here.
F.H.L. What you said about Adam is remarkable, because he was great enough to have a book of his own generations.
J.T. That is the truth in chapter 5 of Genesis. There are about ten references to generations in Genesis and even Ishmael is mentioned, showing that God has family lines in His hand, but when it comes down to the generation of Jesus Christ, then we have real quality, and God is not ashamed of those persons.
J.T.Jr. One subdivision of the generations is from Abraham to David. Would you say that, in a certain sense, the summit in the ways of God was reached in David?
J.T. Yes; the summit in the way of distinction. The word summit has a right place in Matthew because there are seven mountains in this gospel, seven distinctions in the sense of mountains, and what we are talking of enters into the matter. The line is from Abraham to David, and from David to the carrying away of Babylon, and from the carrying away of Babylon to the Christ. These are the distinctions, but in result, the Christ must be first. Things are to be resolved in that way under the teaching of the Spirit in this wonderful gospel.
G.V.D. Why is one of the divisions of the generations at the carrying away of Babylon, when things were at such a low ebb at that time?
J.T. Well, the quality was there nevertheless. In spite of the reproach and the carrying away of Babylon,
royalty was there. The royal line was there and it reached its full thought in the Christ.
E.T.P. Would that link with Nehemiah, in that he established the position according to genealogy with those who returned from Babylon to Judea and Jerusalem?
J.T. Quite so; certain were not allowed to get their distinction until a priest should arise with Urim and Thummim, showing that priesthood enters into this matter. Certain ones were eliminated until the priest with Urim and Thummim should arise.
A.R. The royal line has really never been lost. Joseph is called the son of David. It extends right on to the end.
J.T. Quite so; so that in Romans. Paul's leading epistle, it is the Christ: "come of David's seed according to flesh, marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by resurrection of the dead", chapter 1: 3, 4. That is where the Lord's Person comes in.
E.A.K. This would correspond with the seed royal that the enemy sought, through Athaliah, to destroy. And is the same thought carried on in Herod's attack in Matthew 2? The enemy was acting in the same way against the royal seed.
J.T. Quite so; that is very good. Jezebel was a similar type of person; she destroyed the prophets, who represented the word of God; but Athaliah was aiming at the seed royal, and Matthew brings out the seed royal.
V.C.L. Does the careful selection involved in these names prepare us for the selection of those that were fitted to be companions of the Christ as His apostles?
J.T. Quite so. Some of us were noticing, in the second book of Psalms, that there are female companions and male companions, and it is said of the Lord that He is anointed with the oil of gladness above
His companions. All that points to what we are speaking about. The names are carefully selected; and He carefully selected His apostles. It is said by Luke, when the Supper was to be instituted, that the twelve apostles were with Him. I suppose the number twelve is to fit in with what we are speaking of in the sense of administrative power; but ancestry is the point here and it is a question of who the persons are. The distinctions which they have all come down to the Christ.
A.B.P. You spoke earlier of Joseph being honoured. Did you have some particular qualities in Joseph in mind?
J.T. Well, I think it is good to bring that up now. It says, "Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ". That is Joseph, but Mary is also distinguished in that Joseph is her husband. She has that distinction, and he is the son of David. Then it says, "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was thus: ..." and we are told that Mary was betrothed to Joseph and that he was a righteous man: "her husband, being a righteous man ..." That is one of the best things that you can attribute to a man, and so it is that Matthew makes more of righteousness than any of the other gospel writers. Hence Joseph is distinguished in this way. The idea of righteousness is carried down when the Lord is baptised, evidently to bring out that righteousness peculiarly marked Him, stressing the place it has in this gospel. When the Lord was baptised He said to John the baptist, "For thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness", chapter 3: 15. All righteousness is an immense thought, and Joseph has the distinction of being a righteous man in the extraordinary circumstances mentioned. Thus the enemy had no advantage at a critical time in the testimony. This points, therefore, to the place that righteousness has in the economy of the assembly.
J.T.Jr. Joseph, doing what the angel enjoined him, at the end of chapter 1, is in keeping with his righteousness. It says, "But Joseph, having awoke up from his sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had enjoined him", and then it says, "And he called his name Jesus". He is a subject, righteous man.
F.S.C. It says as to Mary that "she was found to be with child of the Holy Ghost". And then Joseph is spoken of as a righteous man.
J.T. That is one of the things to be noted. What can be questioned about that? We are now considering the Messiah, and Mary has a peculiar place in relation to the Messiah. It is a question of the quality of the persons in the historical line through whom the Messiah came in, and this chapter is the one that treats of it. It is what may be called legal accuracy, not legal in the ordinary sense, but as proving unquestionably that Christ is the Messiah. It has to be established legally that He is the Messiah and this chapter is for that very purpose.
And then it says, in verse 24, "But Joseph, having awoke up from his sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had enjoined him, and took to him his wife, and knew her not until she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus". Joseph did it; it shows that he knew what to do, which is to be noted. At a most critical time he knew what should be done and it all bore on this great point as to the Lord's Messiah-ship. It is legally established before the whole universe that He is the Christ.
C.A.M. Would you say that what had preceded was necessary? so that it was the right time for the Lord Jesus to be born.
J.T. Quite so. Everything was as accurate as it could possibly be. If the magi were astronomers they would understand this, because they were dealing with the heavens. We all know something of the accuracy
of the movements of the heavenly bodies. Even if we only read it in books we know something, but the knowledge thus acquired is not equal to the accuracy that is found in this chapter as to the Messiah-ship of Jesus, the Christ, and as to the time that He should be born.
C.A.M. Is Joseph, the reputed father of Jesus, the result of this royal line?
J.T. Quite so; there is not a hair's breadth of inaccuracy about it, whatever men may say. There is not one king mentioned that should not be. The record is infinitely accurate. I use the word infinite, because it applies to an infinite Person, the Lord Jesus; it must be accurate, and it is accurate.
C.A.M. It says, "Esrom begat Aram". These men are alluded to in 1 Chronicles 2:9, 10, but there is nothing outstanding recorded in Scripture as to them and some others in this line.
J.T. We have already been alluding to the descent from David down. There was a certain reduction in quality and distinction in the persons that were mentioned at the time of the carrying away of Babylon, but the line was really there, and it was really there as it was in David. The Messiah-ship of Christ is established indisputably, as remarked.
C.A.M. In spite of the wickedness that Babylon represents in church history we have all the fragrance of Christ now with us spiritually. It is not lost.
J.T. It is not lost, and one is more than ever impressed by this meeting tonight of the greatness of Matthew's gospel and all that enters into it. Accuracy was required and it was there.
A.N.W. If we could inquire into the accuracy would we not find that those names that have been mentioned, such as Thamar, Rachab, and Ruth, are there in the same honourable way as the others? There was that which had discredited them, but that side is not in mind here.
J.T. God had to do with all this, and He made His selection of these men and women. They are there, and they are to be there. Accuracy required that they should be there.
A.P.T. In verse 22 the reference is not only to what was spoken by the prophet, but what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet. That makes it extremely accurate.
J.T. What we are saying must be so because the Old Testament scriptures said it would come to pass, and so it says, "Now all this came to pass that that might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord, through the prophet". Everything is accurate.
J.T.Jr. The angel says, "Son of David", verse 20. That is the proof of the line of David; it is established by what the angel says.
A.N.W. Whether we go for proof of Matthew 1 to Chronicles, or to Micah for proof of Matthew 2, the thing is precise. He is born precisely where the prophet said the Christ should be born.
A.B.P. Would the angel saying, "Son of David" to Joseph indicate that the genealogical register in heaven is in perfect synchrony with that on earth?
J.T. Quite so; things must agree, because the teaching of the book runs on to: "All power has been given me in heaven and upon earth", chapter 28: 18. There must be perfect agreement between heaven and earth in all this matter.
J.S. And His star coming in in chapter 2 is to confirm all this, is it not?
J.T. That is good; I think the magi help us out a little in the matter of personnel. Chapter 2 was suggested for our consideration to see the kind of men that were used. It is said, "Behold magi from the east arrived at Jerusalem, saying, Where is the king of the Jews that has been born?" Well, how did they know? They say, "We have seen his star in the east, and have
come to do him homage". There is no question about it. What has happened in the East has the same accuracy as what has happened in the West. It is what happened in relation to Christ.
W.F.K. Do you think His star was different from other stars?
J.T. Certainly; it is His star. It is distinctive. The magi were undoubtedly divinely helped in their understanding of the star. They say definitely, that it is the star of the King of the Jews that has been born. Can any astronomer today tell us of it as having seen it?
W.F.K. I thought they might know it as being different from other stars.
J.T. Well, just so; they knew it was the very star. It must be the greatest star of all. How did they know that it was His? That they knew clearly shows that these men were godly and had guidance from God.
F.H.L. Does this link on with Balaam's prophecy as to the Star that would come out of Jacob? "There cometh a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel", Numbers 24:17.
J.T. There is no indication that the magi knew that scripture and that they discerned this star from what Balaam said. I would think that it was divinely given to them to know whose star this was, because they have not question about it. The light the magi had would be in keeping with Job who also does not formally refer to Scripture.
E.A.K. Is there a suggestion of the assembly emerging early in this gospel? Heavenly light is given to the gentiles, whereas Jerusalem is thoroughly out of accord with the mind of heaven concerning this glorious Person?
J.T. I think it would help us, when we get to the end of this gospel, as to the place the gentiles have in the final message, chapter 28: 19. I think the magi here are intended to link on with the gentiles, according to
what you might call the appendix to Matthew. There is an appendix to John and there is an appendix to Matthew; and the appendix to Matthew treats of the gentiles. The allusion would be to Christ in relation to the gentiles in the millennium. The completion of the service is not recorded in the New Testament. It is not recorded that the message sent, according to chapter 28, was ever fulfilled. Instead of the message to the eleven being fulfilled by them, it is Paul that brings the message to the gentiles. So that this commission to go to the gentiles, at the end of Matthew, is still to be fulfilled, and I believe the magi afford a link as to them. According to what we have been saying, they are distinguished already. Cornelius also was distinguished before Peter met him.
A.N.W. The text shows that the magi were in touch with God; they were divinely instructed, and they got a divine answer.
C.A.M. Do the magi connect with the wise men of Daniel?
J.T. It says, in Daniel 11:33, "They that are wise among the people shall instruct the many". The footnote refers to the wise as the Maschilim. It is a question of the wise understanding, and I believe that the wise men have that character. It is a question of what God can link Himself with, and that God is not ashamed of them. He need not be ashamed of the magi here. They are not great astronomers or navigators, as far as we know. It is a question of their relations with God, and they know the star of the King of the Jews, for they are instructed as to this. It says, "And being divinely instructed in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way". They are a link, you might say, with Rahab. She sent the spies out by another way. Another way suggests a principle which comes into our position. It is not the, world's way, or man's way, but the divine way.
A.B.P. You are suggesting that the last few verses of Matthew's gospel relate more to the completion of the age than to the present dispensation?
J.T. Yes; I think the appendix in Matthew 28 is more or less mysterious as John's appendix is mysterious, but we can see that it runs into the millennium. There will be a message then such as is indicated in the end of Matthew 28, and I believe it will link on with the gentiles, and God will not be ashamed of them. His work will go on in them as it will go on among the Jews.
A.B.P. It is very interesting that this passage should be so extensively used to support the idea of missionary travelling in the present dispensation.
J.T. If it is only by history we can tell that there is not much result from missionary work, for Asia is still unchristianised.
T.E.H. It says in the last chapter of Daniel that many shall be purified, and be made white, and be refined; but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
J.T. Yes; they are called Maschilim, as already mentioned, and they link on with the magi and with the book of Job. What Job had is in measure in keeping with what the magi had. The line runs down among the gentiles, because God is the God of the gentiles, also, it says.
C.N. Will you say a word on the effect on the wise men, as recorded here, when they saw the star and "the little child with Mary, his mother".
J.T. "And they having heard the king went their way; and lo, the star which they had seen in the east went before them until it came and stood over the place where the little child was. And when they saw the star they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And having come into the house they saw the little child with Mary his mother, and falling down did him
homage. And having opened their treasures, they offered to him gifts, gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. And being divinely instructed in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way", verses 10 - 12. They departed to the country of the Gentiles but they were worshippers of God, they were worshippers of Christ.
F.N.W. Is there a suggestion of how the heavenly city will afford light to the Gentiles, and what will develop according to Revelation 21?
J.T. Quite so. "Her shining was like a most precious stone". And then, later, it says, "And the nations shall walk by its light; and the kings of the earth bring their glory to it".
Matthew 3:1 - 17
J.T. It is thought that we should look further into what is said, in chapter two, of the magi as representing the gentiles. It is of note that the element which represents the gentiles should appear so early in the book. They are said to be "from the east" and had "come to do him homage". They say, "Where is the king of the Jews that has been born? for we have seen his star in the east, and have come to do him homage", verse 2. That there should be such an evidence of the work of God at this particular time is very noticeable. It should affect us in a worshipful sense -- particularly we who are ourselves of the gentiles. They had come evidently with light and guidance from God, and with the means of service. It says in verse 11: "And having come into the house they saw the little child with Mary his mother, and falling down did him homage. And having opened their treasures, they offered to him gifts, gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. And being divinely instructed in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way", verses 11, 12. They were governed by a principle in determining the other way; that is to say, they had guidance which was different from what is merely natural or what mere nature would suggest. It seems as if these thoughts should help us as proceeding to chapter 3; that we might have the principle of "another way" before us. It is a way that is different from what mere natural wisdom would dictate.
R.W.S. Is "another way" the key to the book, in that sense? It comes in early in the book, and Jerusalem is discredited at once as moving on merely religious lines. It says, "But Herod the king having heard of it, was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him", chapter 2: 3.
J.T. I think that your suggestion as to the key is
good. We thus have the key of knowledge according to God and it is there so early in the book, to be found, as you might say, where it is needed. We are told in this book that the representatives of natural or human religion -- that is, the scribes and the Pharisees -- compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is become such, they make him twofold more a son of hell than themselves, which is a very striking thing as to what humanly accredited religion is and how utterly futile it is for guidance in the things of God.
W.W.M. Would the magi coming to light represent the secret work of God in people not naturally religious?
J.T. Just so; and the magi came in unexpectedly, showing that God was operating in them.
A.N.W. To return another way is divine instruction. There is a note on the word 'instructed' indicating that it was an answer after consultation. A star guided them to Bethlehem but they held a consultation as to how to return; so it says, "And being divinely instructed in a dream".
J.T. They were instructed not to return to Herod; that is to say, the negative side was against Herod, or that element. But "another way" is, as you might say, left to ourselves, because it is a question of the work of God. The work of God in itself can be trusted.
A.A.T. They were guided first by a star and then later instructed in a dream.
J.T. The word is, "Now Jesus having been born in Bethlehem of Judaea, in the days of Herod the king, behold magi from the east arrived at Jerusalem, saying, Where is the king of the Jews that has been born? for we have seen his star in the east", verses l, 2. Now you are contrasting what they had seen with the instruction they received according to verse 12. That is, a star is contrasted with the instruction. The instruction is definite in a negative sense, whereas
verse 2 speaks of what they saw. We can hardly say much as to guidance in verse 2. They are inquiring for the king that had been born, but the star did not appear in Jerusalem. They did not get the guidance from Jerusalem where they inquired for it. It is said in verse 10: "And when they saw the star they rejoiced", but the star was outside of Jerusalem. It is said, "And they having heard the king went their way; and lo, the star, which they had seen in the east, went before them until it came and stood over the place where the little child was", verse 9. That is to say, the star reappeared there, evidently outside of Jerusalem. And then in verse 12, we have the instruction in a dream. It was negative instruction, that they were not to return to Herod, but then they were guided by the other way. They were instructed in a dream not to return to Herod, but they departed unto their own country another way. The guidance is in the star, and then in the other way, which is the work of God, a matter that we have to consider. Guidance is sometimes objective, but clearly here it would be subjective, because it is a question of what arose in their own minds, which was the work of God. The other way would have arisen in their own minds, and it proved to be right.
Ques. Would the two milch kine in 1 Samuel 6 illustrate what is meant by the other way? They took the right way in connection with the return of the ark from the land of the Philistines, going contrary to nature in leaving their calves shut up at home.
J.T. That is very good; nature in the kine was governed in the same sense as we have it here with the magi. It is the understanding of what the work of God suggests. The kine arrived at the right spot, even though not possessed of the intelligence of men, and yet able to determine what to do in taking the right way.
A.N.W. It was of God, I suppose, that the chief priests and the scribes should quote from the prophet
Micah. The Scriptures were known by them in Jerusalem. Is that part of the divine design?
J.T. I would say that the importance of that would be that the scribes and the chief priests were the responsible persons in Jerusalem, and had among themselves the means of determining things in the Scriptures. They used what they had, and used it aright, but the magi worked on another principle in arriving at "another way".
R.W.S. The star is connected with the East and with the place where the little Child was; He is not connected with Jerusalem. And should we deduce from that, spiritually, that Jerusalem has no part in these divine operations? The magi did not return to it.
J.T. Just so; so that it says, "And they having heard the king went their way" (not his), "and lo, the star, which they had seen in the east, went before them until it came and stood over the place where the little child was", verse 9. Now our hearts are directed to the little Child. We have the Person and He is with His mother. That is what we are told; "And when they saw the star they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And having come into the house they saw the little child with Mary his mother". She is there where she should be, but the little Child is the prime thought. It is for us now to see how it bears on us; how the Lord Jesus comes into our inquiry; and how the natural element, and even what is recognised as of God, has its place, but not properly linked up with the work of God. The work of God is a thing in a subjective sense that we have to trust. We can trust the Scriptures, of course, and the divine guidance that we get providentially we can trust, but mere nature we cannot trust. Its suggestions we cannot trust. Even the use of Scripture itself, by unspiritual persons, cannot be trusted. It may mislead us because it is in wrong hands. The Scriptures have to be in their own setting.
C.N. So they offered these gifts to Him, not to His mother.
J.T. That is a good point. Luke would follow that up, quoting the Lord as saying that His mother is not to be made much of unduly. A certain woman said, "Blessed is the womb that has borne thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked". But the Lord said, "Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it", Luke 11:27, 28. The Lord points to the hearers of the word of God instead of to His mother. The time comes when it is the word of God we have to trust.
J.T.Jr. We may have to do with divine things but not be spiritual. Mary had to do with the Child, but she later proved to be unspiritual.
J.T. Yes; the Lord had to say to her, "What have I to do with thee, woman?" John 2:4.
A.P.T. The "little child" is mentioned eight times in this chapter. Would there be some spiritual touch to that?
J.T. I think "the little child" is a beautiful thought. It is not the Babe as in Luke. Luke would stress the very beginning, that He was a Babe. "Wherefore the holy thing also which shall be born shall be called Son of God", Luke 1:35. But the little Child in Matthew has a very peculiar touch. It suggests formation. I mean to say, the Lord was literally born and grew; He grew up into Boyhood and Manhood that was of God. Growth and formation are in mind in this chapter.
F.H.L. Referring to the gifts made by the magi, would there not be further instruction in the way they were offered, the gold being first?
F.H.L. It was remarkable for gentiles to have this appreciation.
J.T. You might say that they were in accord with
the very earliest scriptures. In Genesis 2:12 it says, "The gold of that land is good". That is to say, the encircling of the river of God brings that out. They are in accord with that. They have something that can be offered, and which was acceptable, too. It is to be observed that it is offered to Him; the little Child, and not to the mother.
A.R. Why does it appear in Matthew that the little Child required more care than in Luke? It seems that He is more exposed.
J.T. You will notice the father is in evidence in the instruction. It is said in verse 13, "Now, they having departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appears in a dream to Joseph, saying, Arise, take to thee the little child and his mother, and flee into Egypt". That is to say, Joseph now is in evidence and, you might say, of leading importance, instead of the mother, although the mother is also mentioned. But the father is of leading importance and this is in keeping with Matthew because he presents the line of David. Joseph is not simply the husband of Mary; he is the son of David, although it is important that he was the husband of Mary. But he is the son of David and throughout this chapter he is of importance. So that it says, "Take to thee the little child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be there until I shall tell thee; for Herod will seek the little child to destroy it". So that the little Child now is entirely in evidence as the leading and prime thought for us.
C.A.M. You have stressed in ministry on Luke's gospel how all is guarded there in a priestly setting from all that would be unholy. Would you say that in Matthew, which has a royal setting, that protection is from violence? Herod slew all the boys under two years.
J.T. I think Matthew brings into prominence the royal line, but it is not simply the royal line, for there
is power and protection in it as well. Joseph can be trusted as a protective element. So that the little Child is entrusted to him, but the mother also is there, because she is needed for the little Child at that particular juncture.
C.A.M. Is it not remarkable that one so great and wonderful should be in a position which, outwardly, is almost precarious?
J.T. It seems almost precarious, but still not precarious. For what God is doing, however precarious it may seem, is always trustworthy.
C.A.M. I am sure that is so. Outwardly it would look precarious, but in truth it was not.
F.N.W. In view of these frequent references to the little Child, why is it the Son, when God speaks, both in chapter 2: 15 and in the end of chapter 3?
J.T. Because the time has come for sonship to come into view. We are in mind as those who need instruction as to this great truth, and the time had come, even though the Lord was still very young, for the Spirit of God to bring in the idea of the Son of God and it runs through this whole gospel. So the word is, "And he was there until the death of Herod, that that might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord, through the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son". That word was needed to bring the full light to bear on the position. It is a question of the Son of God, as well as the little Child needing protection; the Son of God is there.
A.R. In order to understand sonship, we have to leave what Judaism represents.
S.W. Is it not significant that the incoming of this great Potentate, the Son of God, should be brought to light through the Gentiles?
J.T. It is remarkable, and it seems to me that the comments made for us should help us in pursuing the subject before us -- the gospel of Matthew -- because it
is the Son of God and the Son of God in power. It is not the Son of God in heaven, but it is here where He is needed in power; hence, all the truth as to the Son of God bears on the assembly, because the assembly is in mind, as being next to Christ Himself, for protection.
S.F. Would the stone cut out without hands in Daniel 2 be typical of the power of the kingdom and in that way be a similar thought?
J.T. That is what we have to rely on now -- the stone cut out without hands. It will break to pieces all that is of political importance. Of course, as long as the purpose of God needs these political systems they will remain, but when they are no longer required the stone cut out without hands will break them to pieces. That is the way the matter stands. It is very suggestive as to what we can rely upon now.
Ques. Would Joseph be in full accord with the mind of heaven about the little Child?
J.T. Well, to be in full accord would be saying much. We have to go by the facts mentioned and not attribute to Joseph beyond what is really there. Matthew makes more of him than Luke does.
R.W.S. Would you enlarge on your remark about the protection the assembly is afforded today?
J.T. I think we rely on the Son of God. I think that is the position. We are outwardly feeble, but the Lord says, "And behold, I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age", Matthew 28:20. That is the power and means of protection for the assembly. It is under the Lord's hand for protection. That is the way I would look at it.
R.W.S. Would the protection be of the assembly in localities as well as the general idea?
J.T. It would; the assembly as it is constituted now. It is not the assembly in heaven: it is the assembly here on earth, and the Son of God, too, is viewed as active here on earth. Matthew has these great facts before him,
and we are to have them before us; that we can count on the Son of God for protection.
J.A.P. Is that what comes out in chapter 14? The Lord stilled the waves. The disciples were in the ship, and they said, "Truly thou art God's Son", verse 34.
J.T. Just so. That is before the full thought of sonship comes out in Matthew. Chapter 16 brings out the full thought of the sonship of Christ; but the idea of protection is there. "Truly thou art God's Son". It is not by revelation, but by observation; by things that were observable; that could be seen; in which the Son of God was active. The revelation is in chapter 16 which is the full thought, as remarked.
F.H.L. The revelation of chapter 16 is followed by the words in chapter 17: "This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight: hear him", verse 5. There are three representative men there, Peter, James and John.
J.T. That is good; and later in that chapter the Lord brings out sonship, referring to the kings of the earth, to illustrate what He has in mind.
W.F.K. How does the Spirit come into this? The Lord Jesus said that the Spirit will guide us into all the truth.
J.T. That is another idea, of course, but it enters into this gospel. We get the Spirit in relation to the Lord Himself in the end of chapter 3: "And Jesus, having been baptised, went up straightway from the water, and lo, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him: and behold, a voice out of the heavens saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found me delight". The Spirit identifies the Son, coming upon Him as He is baptised of John.
W.F.K. Is the Spirit not a protective element? "There is he who restrains now until he be gone", 2 Thessalonians 2:7.
J.T. The Spirit is here as restraining what is evil, so in that sense His service is protective.
A.P.T. In the Lord's address to Thyatira He says, "These things says the Son of God", Revelation 2:18. Would that fit in with the protective element in connection with that church?
J.T. Quite so; I believe that is what comes out in connection with that assembly. Rome had already acquired its power, but the address to Thyatira brings in the Son of God. "These things says the Son of God". It is the Son of God that meets that situation and protects us in it.
A.P.T. It is encouraging to see how the truth is maintained in spite of the pharisaical religious element all around.
J.T. Hence God has graciously brought to light for us in recent times the full truth of the Son of God, and we can nestle in that and enjoy the sonship of Christ in our services; but at the same time He is in power. The Son of God is in power. He is the Christ. The idea of the Son of God is that He is placed over the house. In Hebrews 3:6 He is said to be Son over God's house.
A.P-f. Would the fire prepare us for companionship with the Son of God as seen in Daniel 3:25?
J.T. The fourth person seen was like "a son of God" and he walked with the other three.
A.P-f. Is it not remarkable that the gentile monarch should have discerned this fourth Person?
J.T. It is remarkable indeed, as entering into Daniel. What a suggestion there is for protection for us in sufferings! Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego are in mind! They are the three. Daniel is out of sight. He is not in that picture. It is these three sufferers cast into the burning fiery furnace. And then the king sees one like unto a son of God. That is the thing to lay hold of. That is the power in which we can trust.
J.T.Jr. I suppose the myrrh these magi brought would have in mind that there would be suffering, for Christ suffered and He told His disciples that He would suffer. Then the apostles suffered and there has been suffering in the assembly down to the present time.
A.N.W. Matthew 2:23 says, "So that that should be fulfilled which was spoken through the prophets, He shall be called a Nazaraean". 'Prophets' is in the plural: Does that imply the general trend of the prophetic word, that He should be in that despised position? It is through the prophets. Micah is referred to in verse 6, but when it is a question of, "He shall be called a Nazaraean", it is through the prophets. You cannot exactly find that.
S.F. Does the position in Nazareth compare with the position Paul presents as to the apostles in 1 Corinthians 4:13 -- the things that caused them reproach?
J.T. Just so. I am thankful for the reference to the Nazaraean. The prophet who speaks about Him is not so important as the fact that the general trend of the prophetic word calls attention to it. Of course, Luke would enlarge on that, because he enlarges on Nazareth.
W.W.M. It says in Revelation 19:10, "The spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus". That is what was here in that lowly Person.
J.T. Yes; the spirit of it, quite so.
R.W.S. The prophets uniformly speak of His glory and the glory of the kingdom, but a spiritual mind selects a section which alludes to the reproach.
J.T. Quite so. Now we shall have to pass on to chapter 3. It ends with what we have already remarked; that is, the Spirit of God descending as a dove and coming upon Jesus. The Lord is spoken of earlier in chapter 3, but John is especially stressed, and the Lord is seen coming to be baptised by him. What is brought out is that He is fulfilling all righteousness. That is
what we are to be impressed with in chapter 3. John is calling attention to Christ and what was needed to prepare the way for Him. It is for us to share in the light that John was given. That is to say, we are to fulfil all righteousness. And then the Spirit comes upon the Lord after that testimony. Jesus said in verse 15, "Suffer it now; for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness". That is a large matter, but it is not too large for the assembly. It was not too large for Christ. John was to learn this great lesson. And therefore it says, "Then he suffers him". That is to say, John is subject; and subjection is a great point in the matter of the work of God. Then we are told, "And Jesus, having been baptised, went up straightway from the water, and lo, the heavens were opened to him". They were not opened to John, but to Jesus. "And he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him; and behold, a voice out of the heavens saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight", verse 17.
J.T.Jr. While John was an able minister, which these verses would show, yet he had to be adjusted in regard to the fulfilment of all righteousness.
A.R. How extensive would 'all righteousness' be?
J.T. We have just spoken about that. The idea of all righteousness is not too great for the assembly. The assembly characteristically understands it. It was in the Lord's mind in its entirety, so that it becomes a great subject as entering into this chapter. It is not only certain parts of it but all righteousness. The whole matter of righteousness enters into our position.
J.S. Was it the word John required for adjustment?
J.T. Just so. He was not ready for it at first.
A.B.P. Would there be some suggestion in the Lord being seen in this gospel as called out of Egypt, at the Jordan, and tempted in the wilderness? Israel had faced these circumstances and had marked out a certain
way, but "another way" is marked out now by Christ and would the assembly come into that?
J.T. I would think so. The idea of righteousness begins with Genesis 15 where the first mention of the word of God is found in the Scriptures. It is said of Abraham that he believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. The thought of righteousness enters specially into Abraham's position; and now the Lord brings it in in its fulness. John does not bring it in. He rather detracts from it at first, but the Lord brought it in in its entirety, as we have said.
F.S.C. In what sense is the word "suffer" used here?
J.T. To bear with a thing. The Lord would say, in principle, 'Bear with Me'. He would graciously put it that way to John -- 'Bear with Me, because I am urging righteousness'. It says, "Then comes Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptised of him; but John urgently forbad him". So the Lord has to exercise His authority. John says, "I have need to be baptised of thee", but then the Lord was doing something and John was questioning it, and so the Lord says, in verse 15, "Suffer it now; for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffers him". That is to say, he bears with the Lord. John baptised the Lord because the Lord wished it. What was to come out was the idea of all righteousness.
R.H.S. Is the Lord identifying Himself in His baptism here with those of Israel who had repented and confessed their sins, or is there a further thought in it?
J.T. I think the Lord identifies Himself graciously with the repentant remnant of Israel, but, as we have said, there is the idea of all righteousness.
T.E.H. How extensive is the scripture, "The righteous requirement of the law should be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to flesh but according to Spirit", Romans 8:4?
J.T. Well, it goes to the full thought, I would say. Of course, the righteous requirement of the law would not be so great as 'all righteousness', but at the same time you can hardly limit the righteous requirement of the law in its application to the believer according to Romans.
T.E.H. When I receive the Spirit of God I should immediately operate on the basis of fulfilling all righteousness?
J.T. That is the idea, I would say. The great place the Spirit of God has in Romans 8 emphasises that.
A.B.P. Would you think that the idea of "another way" is brought out in 1 Corinthians 13; that love is the basis of working out everything?
J.T. Yes. The great place the Spirit has in Romans 8 is in keeping with the doctrine of Romans in which practical righteousness is worked out. The whole doctrine of Romans is a matter to be held in mind, too. The Spirit is mentioned as many as seventeen times in Romans 8, showing that practical righteousness is worked out in that way.
J.A.P. Do you think that the disciples at Ephesus, in Acts 19, were on this line of fulfilling all righteousness when they were baptised to the name of the Lord Jesus?
J.T. Quite so; they submitted to the idea involved in the facts that Paul set before them.
C.N. "Thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness". Does that imply some specific demonstration on the part of the Lord? 'Thus' would mean something concrete?
J.T. Yes. The plural shows that the Lord is linking John with Himself. The Lord is not saying, 'It becometh Me'; He brings John into it; so that we must bring all the saints into this great matter of righteousness.
A.P.T. Is there significance in the fact that the voice says, "This is my beloved Son"? In Mark it is, "Thou art my beloved Son".
J.T. I think the idea is to bring out the Person of the Lord Jesus, His loveliness in the eyes of the Father. It is the voice that speaks. In Mark the Father speaks to the Lord Himself; here the attention of others is called to Him. "This is my beloved Son", is a question of testimony.
J.T.Jr. Mark would have the servant more in mind in singling out the Person.
J.T. Quite so. It is the Father speaking to Him there. It is very comforting that there is such a thing as that; the servant gets a word direct to himself. You see it illustrated in Paul's own history, as in Acts 23:11.
This chapter brings before us the discipline which the assembly is called upon to exercise in regard to persons who have been identified with a wicked course. An extreme case of sin is before us in this chapter. At the same time the principles which apply in dealing with matters of evil, and light governing the assembly in such matters come out also. While we do not act in the formal way of delivering to Satan, or removing from ourselves the wicked person, yet we act in the light of that in withdrawing from evil. We are to "withdraw from iniquity". The assembly enters into that. "Let every one who names the name of the Lord withdraw from iniquity", 2 Timothy 2:19. Whilst that is an individual thought, yet we move into it together. We have here, as also in 2 Timothy, the name of the Lord. As having to separate from wicked persons the assembly acts, and associated with that act is the power which the Lord's name brings in. It is not merely that persons do it; it is the assembly that does it. So that it is the entirety of the saints who "call upon the Lord", moving together as in the city, and arriving at the necessity of separating from a certain person. As divine principles govern us, one mind as to the matter is reached through the light afforded and through the affections of the saints for Christ and for one another being in action.
Then the apostle immediately refers to two feasts; that is, the passover and the feast of unleavened bread. These are both rituals from the old economy brought forward to show how they apply to ourselves. The Old Testament is made serviceable to us in these matters. So that when we exercise discipline, which, alas, we have to do at times, these two feasts should come immediately into our minds. It is as if the saints need to be reminded of what has been effected by Christ,
and that, perhaps, it has lost its force with some of our number and therefore evil has occurred. The consideration of these feasts would take us back to Exodus. As we know, the passover especially refers to the initial deliverance of the Israelites; how they were saved from the destroying angel, who, when he saw the blood of the lamb on the doorposts and on the lintels of their houses, passed over them. Here, you will notice, Satan is used for the destruction of the flesh. Evil having come in, Satan is used for the destruction of the flesh in the person who has sinned, that his spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. So that the passover would come into the apostle's mind and he would enforce the meaning of this feast -- also that of unleavened bread. This side of things was, perhaps, lacking at Corinth, and it should come up in our minds also, as we are exercised, to bring about a better state with us. As necessary discipline is exercised, it should bring about better conditions in our localities. The passover is not linked with the Supper in this chapter, as has been pointed out to us recently. It is linked up with the Supper in the gospels, but not here; meaning, I think, that right moral conditions are to be established before the truth of the Supper is brought forward in chapter 11. The intervening chapters have that in mind -- that a better condition of things might be brought about at Corinth. And the Lord is aiming at that amongst us; that is, to bring about better conditions. So that, in going back to the institution of the passover, we would read Exodus 12 and 13. It is good that we should know these chapters; how the Israelites were protected and what was effected, typically -- especially considering the suffering side that is connected with the passover, for the passover lamb was roast with fire. "For also our passover, Christ, has been sacrificed". The allusion is to suffering; the suffering was not mitigated; the action of the fire was direct and powerful,
and it refers to the way Christ suffered. All this is brought up in this chapter because of the allowance of sin in us, in whatever form it may take, and is intended to take us back to these things so that we may get right in what is initial -- the beginning of our histories in relation to Christ. The great beginning for us is the cross, from the standpoint of sacrifice, and it is important to understand that "Christ indeed has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God", 1 Peter 3:8. And again, as we have in Hebrews: "Wherefore also Jesus, that he might sanctify the people by his own blood, suffered without the gate: therefore let us go forth to him without the camp", chapter 13: 12, 13. These references to the sufferings of Christ should lead us to right thoughts as to ourselves. And then, coupled with that is the feast of unleavened bread, which refers to our state being in keeping with the death of Christ. All this is intended to affect us so that we might move on in intelligent conformity to these things and be ready for the light of the Supper, for we hardly know what we are doing unless we pass this way.
The allusion to the leaven here is most instructive for us, for it is possible that the matter for which a person must be dealt with may spread. The leaven would allude to the way evil has its effect in persons who may be immediately connected with the person involved, or who is under his influence, or is sympathetic with such, and therefore the need of being rigid as to this; each one of us dealing with the leaven that might be in his heart -- and often is there. So the apostle uses this strong word: "Purge out the old leaven". Purge it out! It is the old leaven! "... that ye may be a new lump". That is the idea of a new position, involving better conditions. It is not that we do not sorrow over those who are dealt with, because the point in mind here, in regard to such a person, is that he might be saved: "... that the spirit may be saved in the day of the
Lord Jesus". We never lose sight of that in regard to persons with whom we must deal in discipline. There have been many cases of sorrow in this city. We should think of all such in that way; but at the same time, the Lord is looking at our state, as of the assembly, and we must purge out the old leaven. And so the word is, "So that let us celebrate the feast". The children of Israel were to keep it seven days, which refers to the whole of the believer's time down here. It is, "not with old leaven, nor with leaven of malice and wickedness". The apostle, in alluding to these things, had in mind that the state of the Corinthians might change for the better, and so he goes on to say, "... but with unleavened bread of sincerity and truth". May every one of us move in sincerity, which involves that we are not double-minded, but that we are free and clear from all personal feeling: and then, that the truth may govern us in our feasts!
Matthew 4:1 - 25
J.T. In order to facilitate our consideration of this chapter it may be remarked that there are certain things that are outstanding in it. First, there are the temptations; then the changing of the position of residence by the Lord, then His gathering of material for His service, in the calling of disciples; and finally, there is the extraordinary result of His labours. It is as if these features are grouped in the chapter so that our understanding of it may be enhanced.
The results of the labours of the Lord are seen, beginning with verse 23: "And Jesus went round the whole of Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the glad tidings of the kingdom, and healing every disease and every bodily weakness among the people. And his fame went out into the whole of Syria, and they brought to him all that were ill, suffering under various diseases and pains, and those possessed by demons, and lunatics, and paralytics; and he healed them. And great crowds followed him from Galilee, and Decapolis, and Jerusalem, and Judea, and beyond the Jordan". Stress is laid on the fact that everything is done that needed to be done. And we are reminded of the extent of toil, not necessarily levitical, but toil of every needed kind. We are reminded of results, also; evidently to stimulate us, that we should not be overcome with so much to be done. The chapter indicates what can be done. It is said, "Abounding always in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord", 1 Corinthians 15:58.
J.T.Jr. Healing, as well as teaching and preaching, is mentioned in the last paragraph.
J.T. Yes, everything that needed to be done was done, and well done. I thought it would be helpful to have that outline, for an outline in the service of God
is important. It is said that we are to have an outline of sound words. When we have the outline we can deal with detail.
J.H.E. As soon as the Lord Jesus is identified as the Son of God the devil seeks to nullify what He does. He says, "If thou be the Son of God". He would dispute that. As we embrace Christ the deceiver seeks to take away what we have received. He raises a doubt here as he did in the garden.
J.T. Yes; and the stress is on man: "Man shall not live by bread alone". This gospel brings out the truth that in Christ and the saints manhood and sonship are correlative. The tempter says, "If thou be Son of God ..." The Lord's reply is, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word which goes out through God's mouth", verse 4.
C.N. Is it necessary that the temptations should precede the service of the Lord?
J.T. The temptations are the main matter before us now. They are three-fold. Elsewhere it is said, "having completed every temptation", Mark 4:13, as if the enemy tried everything of this character against the Lord. Then we have the three-fold testimony to what happened. And we have the word tempter which is a thing to be noted. Satan is called the tempter in this chapter, so as to stress the idea of temptation. He is not a novice or a mere worker in the effort. He is the arch-tempter. He is really the tempter. He is called that.
A.N.W. Does the opening word in this chapter intimate that the tempter might have had cognisance of the pronouncement in the last verse of the previous chapter: "This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight"? The opening word, "Then" seems to follow on that. The tempter says, "If thou be Son of God".
J.T. I would think that is right; but then, is the Spirit of God following that? Is He really taking that
up as the point to be enlarged on? I think what we are remarking is true; that the Lord turns the matter to the question of man, and man in sonship. That is to say, He is not placing the matter within the range of the devil. He is taking the lead, really, in the position. That is, the Lord in His conflict selects His own battleground and His own subjects. He is not simply led by the devil.
A.R. It says that Jesus was carried up into the wilderness by the Spirit.
J.T. He was not carried up by the tempter, but by the Spirit, although the tempter is allowed to do certain things. The point is, the Spirit is doing it. The Lord is selecting His own battleground and the subjects that are involved. He is not simply taking up a suggestion. Ministry that is given merely on the basis of what is suggestive is a very weak kind of teaching.
A.R. Is He going into the wilderness as Man?
J.T. That is how the matter stands. The Lord turns the matter and takes it into His own hands. He is in charge of the conflict. We have in the days of David a battle fought in the wood of Ephraim. There were more destroyed by the wood, or forest, than there were by the sword. That was not a good selection of a battleground. The Lord selects His own battleground.
J.S. Man is the great battleground.
J.T. That is the point here. And the devil would seek to turn the matter on sonship, but the Lord turns it on man.
E.A.L. Do we see a distinction in Matthew where the Lord says, "Get thee away. Satan, for it is written ..." verse 10, whereas in Luke it says that "the devil ... departed from him for a time"? In Matthew the Lord takes the initiative in dismissing him.
J.T. Yes. You would expect that. The saints are often dragged along and lowered into positions at the enemy's will. That will not do. The Lord would
have the setting out of the truth in His own hand.
Ques. Would you explain what you have in mind in suggestive teaching?
J.T. I am afraid of it. I am afraid of the way the brethren sometimes take hold of things, and follow the subject up suggestively. The Lord does not here follow what Satan says. The Lord takes the thing in hand, and speaks of what man should eat. Teaching should be on higher ground than what the devil might suggest. John's gospel is a leading part of Scripture in regard of teaching. And hence you have Mary Magdalene as naming the Lord, Rabboni, meaning, My Teacher. It is not simply that He was the Teacher, a general or public Man who teaches, but One that I value, that I see, and from whom I can get the truth; the truth that may be needed.
R.W.S. Sometimes in meetings for prophetic ministry there is a suggestion that is carried forward. Is your point that there should be something different?
J.T. That is, in general, just what I think. Of course, there is such a thing as following up a remark, and so we have in the Scriptures the use of the word "and" as linking books, as in the beginnings of Exodus, Numbers and Leviticus, but it does not go very far; but there is enough to indicate that there is a connection throughout Scripture. Scripture follows up certain lines, but the Lord's supper opens up fresh and new thoughts about the Lord each week.
A.P.T. "As they were eating" the Lord brought in something entirely new and different in instituting the supper, Matthew 26:26.
J.T. The point there is that it was as they were eating. It was an advantageous time for them. Their constitution would be strengthened by that food, and so it is that in Mark, where we have the unbelief of the disciples in the most remarkable way in the last chapter, the Lord appears to them finally, as if the whole matter
would be worked out with them. He would thus effect His thoughts with them. He rebuked them for their unbelief, as if at that time they were able to take a rebuke. Thus He proceeds with them, giving them their commission, Mark 16:14 - 18.
A.N.W. You mean that the revelation to one sitting by, 1 Corinthians 14:30, would come direct from the Lord, the Head, rather than from the previous speaker?
J.T. Quite so; it is a revelation. A revelation is not what a brother, speaking just before you, said. That is not the idea of a revelation.
Ques. Immediately preceding the temptations, the Lord fasted for forty days and forty nights. Would you say something about that?
J.T. It says, "Afterwards he hungered". That is to say, the Lord allowed that. You might say, Is the devil having an advantage? We were just saying that the Lord would not give him an advantage, but then it is said, "And having fasted forty days and forty nights, afterwards he hungered". Then the tempter comes when He hungered. This is where you get the word tempter, as if it is the full thought of temptation. The enemy would seize the opportunity when the Lord was hungry. "The tempter coming up to him said, If thou be Son of God, speak, that these stones may become loaves of bread", verse 3. Well, the Lord is ready for him. The Lord is ready for the conflict; He is not giving up the battleground. It was to be in the wilderness. The Lord is carried up into the wilderness by the Spirit. The Lord's answer is not according to the tempter's inquiry. It refers to the food that man should eat. There is light in it -- light as to God and man. Thus the matter is settled.
T.E.H. Is this the first gracious service by the Spirit after having descended? It must have been peculiarly delightful to the Spirit to lead this Man into the wilderness.
J.T. Well, the reference to the Spirit at the end of chapter 3 as coming on Jesus is not Pentecost; that was after the Lord was glorified. The coming on Jesus was personal, not consequent on redemption, as in the case of believers. Here the tempter came up, and said to the Lord, "If thou be Son of God, speak, that these stones may become loaves of bread". We have been already remarking that the Lord did not accede to that, although sonship is one of the leading subjects in this gospel. But the Lord is leaving it for the moment, because there is something else that He would bring in and He would not take up what the devil would introduce. He would select His own battleground, and the subject, hence the Lord brings in manhood, and that by which man should live.
D.P. Did the devil discern that there was a different order of manhood now on the scene?
J.T. I would think that. The Lord is at least showing that it is a question of man. "But he answering said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word which goes out through God's mouth", verse 4. It is man, and how he is to live.
J.T.Jr. The fasting clearly did not bring about any weakness, because it says, "Afterwards he hungered".
J.T. The Lord is equal to any position, and if it be a question of the will of God requiring the position, then the Lord is equal to that, too; and of course, Gethsemane is the prime idea as to that; how the Lord went deliberately through it.
S.M. Is there a similar thought in the way Abraham met the king of Sodom in Genesis 14? It says, "I have lifted up my hand to Jehovah, the Most High God, possessor of heavens and earth, if ... I take anything ... that thou mayest not say, I have made Abram rich", verses 20 - 23.
J.T. Quite so; Melchisedec had brought out bread and wine to meet Abram, as returning from the slaughter
of the kings. Bringing out bread and wine was a provision of God. He is a type of the Lord in the millennium. He is bringing forth bread and wine. It is a provision of God for a servant in conflict, but the Lord did not need it. He was equal to the position. He did not need to prepare. He is ready even in Gethsemane.
R.W.S. The circumstances seem to be designed externally to give the tempter an advantage, in that the Lord hungered, so that the devil brings up the matter of food.
J.T. Quite so; what seems to be may not be, you know. The Lord is over all that. He is greater than all that, because the principle is, He is stronger than the devil.
C.A.M. Was there a verification of the truth of the Lord's words, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word which goes out through God's mouth", in the holy life of the Lord in this wilderness position? Was not hungering a demonstration that that was so? He lived, surely, by every word of God.
F.S.C. Would the forty days and forty nights link on with the experience of Moses, the lawgiver?
J.T. Yes; all these facts show that the Lord had part, in some sense, in all the afflictions of the testimony, but no one had part in what we have here. It is the Lord in His supremacy.
J.H.E. Would John 4 help? When the disciples came back with the food, the Lord said: "I have food to eat which ye do not know", verse 32.
J.T. Quite so; they thought that He would be dependent on the food that they had been buying for Him, but it was not so. We never can compass the Lord. We can never assume anything as to the Lord. We must learn that He is beyond all natural calculations.
J.H.E. Jesus was carried up into the wilderness by
the Spirit and if we are carried by the Spirit we will be in power.
J.T. It is wonderful that it should be said that He was carried. Why should we have that word? In Luke He is led of the Spirit in the wilderness; not into, but in; here it is that He was carried into the wilderness.
W.F.K. In Mark He is driven; He is viewed as the servant in that Gospel.
Ques. In verse 4, it says, "He answering said, It is written ..." Does the allusion to what is written instruct us?
J.T. That is a very important matter. We are to go by the word of God, but when we come to Christ we cannot limit Him to the written word for He is God. We have to see what the thing is by what He does. I am not to assume there is just an ordinary man before me in the Scriptures.
J.A.P. So that even a great man like Elijah lasted only one day in the wilderness in 1 Kings 19 before the angels fed him. Does that show our weakness in encountering the wilderness?
J.T. Yes; that scripture is wonderful and very encouraging. Elijah was in the wilderness, but he had two breakfasts that day, according to the record, which is very remarkable. He went in the strength of those breakfasts forty days and forty nights. That is not just what we get with Christ. We get something new with the Lord in all these matters.
R.W.S. Are you looking at this as the Lord being unique in this position, or is there some way in which we are to experience something of this?
J.T. I think it is a question now of the uniqueness of the gospels. The gospels open up the truth as no other section of Scripture does. It is a question of placing yourself where you can learn from them. The gospels are unique.
A.N.W. Is it the manna or is it something different? The angels are interested in this matter and ministered to him. I wondered whether there was something connected with that in the Psalm: "Man did eat the bread of the mighty", Psalm 78:25.
J.T. Well, when we come to Christ. He is the food Himself. So that it is what He brings in Himself. In the gospels we are to learn everything from Christ. The epistles, of course, are teaching based on gift, but the gospels are written by the Spirit of God as unfolding the life and ministry of Christ. Everything must begin there. So that we are not directed, in Acts 2, to Moses or others in the Old Testament. We are directed to the apostles and only to the apostles, because they are the authoritative witnesses of Christ. And so when we come to the gospels it is not a question of what the apostles wrote, but of Christ Himself. It was what was there in Him. From Him we are to learn everything.
F.H.L. Are there features of manhood here which are completely equal to every test?
J.T. He is more than equal, because He is stronger than the strong man.
A.A.T. I notice that in the section of Deuteronomy 8 from which the Lord quotes, "Man doth not live by bread alone", it says of the Israelites that God had humbled them and suffered them to hunger and fed them with manna. Is that in contrast to what we have in Matthew 4?
J.T. We are on Deuteronomy ground now as we are considering the temptations in Matthew. But what I am endeavouring to impress the brethren with is that we are to begin with Christ. It is not something happening in Him that has happened before, exactly. In principle, all is new, and all begins with Him.
A.R. Deuteronomy stresses the thought of the man Moses throughout.
J.T. Quite so. It is what he unfolded. So that he
is a type of Christ, in Deuteronomy: "Began Moses to unfold this law". He began to do it. It was an unfolding in Deuteronomy. In this sense, Moses is a type of Christ. Besides, quotations in the gospels from the Old Testament have a new setting beginning with Christ.
A.B.P. Would the Lord be seen here as taking His place in relation to the human race? His answer to the tempter is, "Man shall not live by bread alone".
J.T. Well, quite so. What I think we have to see first, is that the Lord turns to the subject of man; but then, we are to think of Him first. How are we to take account of Him in the matter? What view am I going to get of Him in this position? Therefore, we learn that He is being tempted but He is in charge. He is the stronger, and whatever is done He takes the initiative. We have to wait and see just what will be unfolded, and it is clear that the Lord is not taking on the enemy's suggestions. He is bringing in what is His own. That is, it is what He is saying, Himself.
S.M. Has He begun to spoil things here? He binds the strong man and spoils his goods. Did the first man fail on this line of temptation?
J.T. Just so. But then, to bring in Adam as a comparison is not great enough. We want to get something out of what the Lord is going to say and what He is going to open up. "But he answering said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word which goes out through God's mouth". It is not simply that He is going to live by what God says in a general way, "but by every word which goes out through God's mouth". That is what is to be noted. It is every word; not simply the general idea, but every word.
C.A.M. You are pressing the thought that now we have a view of manhood that we never had before.
J.T. Yes, we are now where we can get things that we have never heard before.
J.H.E. The apostle Paul, in 2 Corinthians 5:17, says, "So if any one be in Christ, there is a new creation; the old things have passed away". Do we have to arrive at that position? In Corinth they were applying the old things to Christ after the flesh.
J.T. Just so; there is such a thing as new creation. It is not exactly for us to say what is new creation, but there is such a thing as that: "If any one be in Christ, there is a new creation".
C.A.M. We know we are approaching perfection when we approach Christ and it is learning everything from Christ that you have been stressing. Is not one of our weaknesses that we are so liable to bring in our experiences?
J.T. Quite so. I am sure of that. Of course, we are not to ignore what we have already learned; but really, to get the full position, you have to sit down, as it were, and say, I have to learn everything. I suppose that is what Mary implies when she says, "Rabboni", which means, 'My Teacher'.
R.W.M. "Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness and died", John 6:49. Is that in contrast to what we are saying?
J.T. The Jews had referred to that in John 6:31, in speaking to the Lord. They brought up one thing, but He said something else. We have just to see the something else in the gospels, and sit down, as it were, and listen to what that something else may mean, because we may be sure that we need experience. "... began Moses to unfold this law", is the same idea. It is the unfolding of things.
Ques. Would 'every word' call attention to this Man?
J.T. I think it is right to bring that in, because that is how the matter would go -- what God would say would refer to Christ. It is remarkable that in Numbers 7 we have 89 verses relating to the dedication of the
altar, and a prince from each tribe has his day of service. It is the unfolding of what was needed for the dedication of the altar. Every man had the same thing to offer. And yet, every man's offering is opened up and unfolded because God is pleased with the things that are presented. He is, as it were, occupied with it for the moment, and presently. He will say something about it. Following the offerings of the princes it is said that Moses went in to speak to God, and he heard a voice speaking to him. That is the point. It is not what Moses will say, but what God will say, and every thing after that is, "And Jehovah spoke to Moses saying ..." Chapters 6 and 7 end the first section of the book of Numbers and thus what we have been saying as to divine speaking fits in there.
J.T.Jr. We have God's voice in Matthew 3 to correspond with what you are speaking of in Numbers.
J.T. Just so. I hope I am not saying anything to divert the brethren because I quite understand that others have something to say; only I wish to impress the brethren with the fact that it is a question of God in the gospels. It is not what Paul writes, or what Peter writes; it is what the gospels unfold. John and Matthew and others may be used in writing them, but the Spirit of God is the direct Author. What God is in Christ is directly presented in the gospels, and we have, as it were, to sit down there and learn everything.
A.McN. The Lord is Master of the situation here; it is vastly different when applied to us, because only He could say, "The ruler of the world comes, and in me he has nothing", John 14:30. He was not subject to him in any way. He was superior to him in everything.
J.T. I suppose we may proceed with the temptations, because it is the first part of our subject in this reading. It says, "And the tempter coming up to him said, If thou be Son of God, speak, that these stones may become loaves of bread", verse 3. This is the devil.
And now we are to listen to what the Lord says. If we listen to the devil, we will be diverted and darkened: "But he answering said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word which goes out through God's mouth". What that meant to Him!
J.T.Jr. Do you think the apostle would have something like this in mind when he said that every scripture is divinely inspired?
J.T. Quite so. "And profitable", 2 Timothy 3:16.
A.P.T. In view of what you have said, the officers in John 7 are to be credited. They were sent to take Jesus, and when they came back, they said, "Never man spoke thus, as this man speaks", verse 46. Does it fit into what you are suggesting as to that which comes out of God's mouth?
J.T. Yes. They were affected by what they saw and heard in Christ, and what affected them was that there never was a Speaker like Him. "Never man spoke thus, as this man speaks". It is a question of what He is saying, and also how He says it.
W.W.M. The Lord says, in John 6, "As the living Father has sent me and I live on account of the Father, he also who eats me shall live also on account of me", verse 57. Is there any correspondence?
J.T. Well, there must be, because John 6 is eating to live and here it is living by every word of God. The Lord says much in John 6 about food, and we are now dealing with food. So it says, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word which goes out through God's mouth". Now the Lord speaks of the living Father: "As the living Father has sent me and I live on account of the Father, he also who eats me shall live also on account of me". There must be something in that as to the Lord living by the Father, to correspond with what we are saying. So, "He also who eats me". We have to see what the eating of the food in John really means, that it is Christ's flesh and the drink is
Christ's blood. So we have to follow that up and see whether it does not enter into the teaching of christianity. Of course it does. It is John's gospel; and undoubtedly, as suggested, the eating there would help us as to what we are dealing with here, only it is a question of God's mouth, and what goes out through it; every word that goes out through God's mouth. Man shall live by that.
D.P. Does Luke 4 have any bearing on what you were saying? "And all bore witness to him, and wondered at the words of grace which were coming out of his mouth", verse 22.
J.T. Quite so. Words of grace in Christ's mouth! That is characteristically Luke's gospel. But now it is a question of the word that goes out through God's mouth and how man is to live by it.
J.S. What does that convey to your mind?
J.T. Well, it is our being brought into touch with God; of our getting what He says, and every word that He says. What a theme there is thus opened up! Think of the extent of it for man and how the Lord would rob the devil of his material. He takes away the armour in which he trusts. That is what the Lord did here.
A.B.P. Peter tells us in his epistle about the voice that was heard from the excellent glory. It would seem as though he lived in the enjoyment of those words which were heard on the mount of transfiguration.
J.T. Just so. That opens up something that is most interesting -- the touch which we get from Peter on the sonship of Christ. The Lord is not being led into the thought of sonship at this point. He is guarding against that here. He has something else in mind and He is keeping to that. It is what God says and what man is to eat. It is what comes out of the mouth of God. What you have referred to is the only word we get about the sonship of Christ from Peter in his ministry, which is a remarkable thing.
Ques. Is it right to say that the Lord takes the initiative in saying, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word which goes out through God's mouth"?
J.T. Yes. The next thing is, "Then the devil takes him to the holy city". The devil is attacking here and we have to see how the Lord meets this attack. It goes on to say, "... and sets him upon the edge of the temple, and says to him, If thou be Son of God cast thyself down; for it is written, He shall give charge to his angels concerning thee, and on their hands shall they bear thee, lest in anywise thou strike thy foot against a stone. Jesus said to him, It is again written, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God", verses 5 - 7. The Lord is not allowing Himself to be diverted by the devil at all. He chooses the battleground. He is meeting him, and He is overthrowing him. That is what He is doing.
F.H.L. Is the enemy using deception here in taking the Lord to the house of God and misquoting Psalm 91:11?
J.T. Quite so. Moreover the devil is seeking to keep the idea of the Son of God prominent, whereas the Lord is not making that the issue. He is not going to be diverted at all. What we are saying is most important for all of us. If we are carrying on in the testimony we are in the conflict, and we are not to be diverted by what the enemy is doing or saying, and we are to meet him by the truth and not by what he is saying.
A.McN. Hence the importance of the emphasis you put on what "goes out through God's mouth". It is a present thing. We are to be careful and earnest about heeding what the Spirit says.
J.T. Just so. We want to keep with God and listen to what is coming out through His mouth. It is not simply the idea of an address which we may hear at some time, but what is current, what goes out through God's mouth.
R.W.S. Would that be like the prophetic word, "He wakeneth mine ear to hear as the instructed", Isaiah 50:4? Morning by morning the Lord would have something fresh from God's mouth.
J.T.Jr. That section of Isaiah brings in the conflict. He asks who the opposer is and says, "who is mine adverse party? let him draw near unto me. Behold the Lord Jehovah will help me".
A.N.W. Do you think that in the corresponding section in Luke's record the Lord gives the truth special force? Twice, He says, It is written, but the third time, He says, It is said. The enemy is defeated at that point.
J.T. Yes; that is to be noted, as giving the scripture quoted immediate force. The Lord can do that.
A.R. Why does Matthew put the religious side before the political in the temptations?
J.T. Because it is a feature of Matthew. In Luke Satan brings forward the kingdoms of this world first; but in Matthew it is a question of the Jews and what was in the temple. So that verse 5 says, "Then the devil takes him to the holy city, and sets him upon the edge of the temple, and says to him, If thou be Son of God cast thyself down". Now, the next temptation is, "Again the devil takes him to a very high mountain, and shews him all the kingdoms of the world, and their glory, and says to him, All these things will I give thee if, falling down, thou wilt do me homage. Then says Jesus to him, Get thee away, Satan", verses 8 - 10. The Lord is done with the matter. It is finished from His point of view. The last thing brought in here is the kingdoms of this world; the political side; the glory of the world. So that it would seem as if in Matthew the enemy is attacking the position, first by the temple, what the religious men would be occupied with, and then what would occupy a worldly man; that is, the kingdoms of this world, which would be a political
matter. That is the last thing. The devil has to go when that fails. If we were out on the street tonight, we would see what is in mind in this third temptation, for it is Election Day. The kingdoms of this world are in the minds of the politicians. But the Lord at this point tells Satan to go. He says, "Get thee away. Satan", meaning that he is now an out-and-out enemy of God. Thus we must disregard him. The Lord is showing here that the matter is finished. "Love not the world, nor the things in the world. If any one love the world, the love of the Father is not in him; because all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father", 1 John 2:15, 16. That is the finish of the temptations in this gospel.
W.F.K. Satan offers Him the kingdoms but they are not his to give.
J.T. That is just what Satan will do. He presumes to have them. Then it says, "Then the devil leaves him". The Lord resists him here, and he flees from Him. "And behold, angels came and ministered to him", verse 11. That is another touch. They came; it is not said that the Lord asked for them.
A.B.P. Would it be noteworthy that each temptation leads to some fresh disclosure of God through the Lord's words? It is not merely that the enemy is met, but there is some positive disclosure of God.
J.T. That is just what I think we should keep before us in all that we are being occupied with in the gospels. We have Christ before us in the gospels, not simply Christ in relation to christianity, but Christ in relation to everything. The epistles, of course, are more limited. They are occupied with the assembly, generally, but the gospels are the broadest ground we can get on to. They include the millennium, at least in principle, and the eternal state of things, too.
Then we have: "But having heard that John was
delivered up, he departed into Galilee: and having left Nazareth, he went and dwelt at Capernaum, which is on the sea-side in the borders of Zabulon and Nepthalim, that that might be fulfilled which was spoken through Esaias the prophet, saying, Land of Zabulon and land of Nepthalim, way of the sea beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the nations -- the people sitting in darkness has seen a great light, and to those sitting in the country and shadow of death, to them has light sprung up. From that time began Jesus to preach and to say, Repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn nigh", verses 12 - 17. So that we have the Lord, and the testimony, maintained in every respect; the devil being, as it were, disposed of.
Now, we have the Lord being affected by hearing that a servant, John the baptist, was put into prison. Verse 12 says, "He departed into Galilee". He moves as being affected by the circumstances. He also takes up another local position. Then we have the idea of light springing up. It is not simply light coming from heaven, but "the people sitting in darkness has seen a great light, and to those sitting in the country and shadow of death, to them has light sprung up". That is to say, it is the subjective side of things; the Holy Spirit producing things, and there is light, so that the Lord is in that position.
W.F.K. He is preaching the kingdom now, in contrast to the kingdoms of the world.
J.T. Yes. It says, "From that time began Jesus to preach and to say, Repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn nigh". Notice it is "from that time". His own position is changed; it is not stationary. He moves to a certain place. It says, "And having left Nazareth, he went and dwelt at Capernaum", which has a greater place than Nazareth in this gospel; in fact, generally, Capernaum was the external centre of the Lord's operations.
J.T. Quite; no doubt to enhance His position, in circumstances suitable for the testimony, because a great deal happened at Capernaum; and thus, of course, it is more responsible. The Lord refers to it later in that way; but what I think we ought to see here, is the grouping of things in this chapter. We should see how the Lord moves His position and what happens after that; especially the light springing up. It is light springing up, not coming down from heaven.
A.B.P. "In him was life, and the life was the light of men", John 1:4.
A.R. In Capernaum we get material for the assembly.
J.T. Yes. But the chapter ends in recounting the great works of Christ and their extent. The Spirit of God is impressing us, at this point, with how great and extensive the works of Christ had become. His fame had spread abroad. The passage, beginning with verse 23, reads thus: "And Jesus went round the whole of Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the glad tidings of the kingdom, and healing every disease and every bodily weakness". At the present time there is much of the latter, and much death too, and it is intended to affect us. "And his fame went out into the whole of Syria". The fame of Christ is to be noted. Think of that as a theme! But the chapter has the idea of grouping. Matters are being stated rapidly and events are closing up quickly, because the Lord is going on to a point. They bring to Him "all that were ill, suffering under various diseases and pains, and those possessed by demons, and lunatics, and paralytics; and he healed them. And great crowds followed him from Galilee, and Decapolis, and Jerusalem, and Judea, and beyond the Jordan". We get a similar statement to this in chapter 9, but the Spirit of God is hastening on so that we might be impressed with the greatness of the Lord's
work. How much can be done by one Person!
R.W.S. This involves great continuation.
J.T. That is the word that may be used, and what can be done by one person. Of the dear servant whom we so often quote, someone said, 'Set the world right by one man'. His father said that to him. It would give him something to do and give him some idea of what had to be done.
T.E.H. On the third day God said, "Let the earth cause grass to spring up", Genesis 1:11. It would be a mighty work of God to cause light to spring up, as is mentioned in verse 16.
J.T. Matthew is to impress us with that; the magnitude of the work that the Lord Jesus had undertaken and how it is all now centred in the assembly, and that the assembly is to be preserved and kept in view of the end.
J.T.Jr. When the Lord came into Capernaum things started to move.
A.N.W. "And he healed them", verse 24, says. That would indicate there was nothing unadjusted.
J.T. No doubt we all love to think of the work of God, and perhaps feel how small we are in it when we compare it with this marvellous undertaking that the Lord is presented as accomplishing in this section of Matthew's gospel. We shall meet the same thing in chapter 9, but the Spirit brings it in here at this early stage clearly that we may see what the work of God implies, and be stimulated in it, "abounding always in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord", 1 Corinthians 15:58. That is the idea.
R.W.S. The passage speaks of "various diseases and pains". But then it mentions "those possessed by demons, and lunatics, and paralytics", the most impossible people, but He healed them. It is marvellous!
J.T. One has often thought of lunacy; there is so much of it and we have, alas, to contend with it. But
how encouraging is what is said here! He healed them!
A.P.T. Verse 23 refers to "the whole of Galilee", and verse 24 speaks of "the whole of Syria". It is a tremendous undertaking.
J.T. Very good. Someone was speaking to me the other day about missionary work and why we are not doing it. But this is the idea. It is the whole of the thing and the completion of it. That is what the Lord performed. Who can question it? It is very stimulating. But while we have the light and stimulation of the glorious work of Christ thus seen in Matthew, we have to accept humbly that we are in the day of small things, the truth is generally so disregarded that the Holy Spirit is grieved and quenched and that the work of God is reduced. Still, He is encouraging His people to continue, knowing that our labour is not in vain in the Lord.
W.W.M. Is it important to notice that "they brought to him all that were ill". Is that the point?
J.T. It is indeed. It says, "and he healed them". Elsewhere a man says to the Lord that he brought his son to the disciples and they were not able to heal him, but the Lord says, "Bring him here to me", Matthew 17:17.
S.F. We have referred to Galilee of the nations and the Lord's fame going abroad into Syria. The word in Malachi is, "My name is terrible among the nations", chapter 1: 14.
J.T. Yes. Romans helps further. The apostle's epistles are specially confirmatory of the service of Christ in the gospels. And so Romans 15 tells us about Paul's ministry and how wide it was, from Jerusalem round about to Illyricum. He had fully preached the glad tidings of Christ there.
E.A.L. The Lord's word, "Repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn nigh" is a repetition of what John says. Is that the Lord confirming the work of the servant?
J.T. Just so. The Lord would do that, because He
said, before He left the disciples, that they should do greater works than He did, "because", as He said, "I go to the Father", John 14:12. And, of course, He would bring that out. But the gospels are what He did, and that is what we are engaged in now.
T.E.H. How do we bring persons who need help in a locality to the Lord?
J.T. We begin with the smallness of things, and then others may be saying, Well, what are you doing? What is the result of the work? And of course, there will be plenty of reproach. But after all, there is something going on, something being done in the power of the Spirit. Our little meetings on the Lord's day evenings accomplish something. That something is not to be despised, and you will find, if you follow it up, whatever there is, it is in some way in keeping with what the Lord does.
R.H.S. Do you think we can have any effect on these serious cases you referred to by prayer and fasting today?
J.T. We have had such cases. We have had the most remarkable physical recoveries. There is one even now that is in question; a case that seemed beyond the doctors. We cannot say very much, but at the same time if there is a little it is well to take account of it. So James says, "Is any sick among you? let him call to him the elders of the assembly", chapter 5: 14. Note that the elders of the assembly are to be called. The sick person is to send for them.
A.R. The prayers of the saints can do much.
J.T. That is what the passage says: "And the prayer of faith shall heal the sick". If a man even has sinned this need not stand in the way. He shall be forgiven. There are such things -- forgiveness of sins and healing of diseases too. There is something being done, and let nobody say it is not so; because what we are saying is the truth. What is done may be only a very little but even a little is something.
A.R. The gospel is preached involving light and God blesses it. That there are not many converts is true, but continual work is being done; a great deal is the result of the prayer meeting.
J.T. Much is happening in the way of freshening the saints, saving them in that way.
T.E.H. We are reminded of the incident in Luke 8:26 - 39. The people came out and saw the man out of whom the demons had gone sitting, clothed and in his right mind, at the feet of Jesus.
J.T. Yes. And then, as we were saying, there is that which is being done now. Some of us who go about more than others may see something of what is happening. There are conversions; there are changes in men's lives; men and women are coming into the assembly. They are leaving the world and are coming into fellowship, and in considerable numbers, and a good many, even now, are being restored who turned away years ago. We are not to ignore these things. It would be a discredit to the Lord if we did ignore them. We are to take account of all that He is doing, thankful indeed that we have any part in it.
Matthew 5:1 - 26; Matthew 7:24 - 29
J.T. We are all aware that this series of readings is in the gospel of Matthew. At the opening reading attention was called to the fact that the ascension of Christ is not mentioned in this gospel. On the other hand, it was pointed out that the Lord speaks of Himself, in the gospel, as with the disciples all the days, until the completion of the age; so that stability is suggested, not from the standpoint of what is in heaven or of our heavenly relations, but because of what is here on earth. The Lord Himself promised that He would be with the disciples throughout the dispensation, and then the Spirit would be here, although that is not stressed so much, but clearly it is in mind, to be apprehended throughout the gospel. And then another feature is the mountains which come into evidence, which goes with the idea of stability, as has been remarked. They involve stability and conspicuousness, not as heavenly bodies or what is in heaven, but what is present on earth in the sense of stability.
J.S. What is conspicuous here?
J.T. Yes; what is here is just the point. It says, "But seeing the crowds, he went up into the mountain". It is over against the plain or valley.
J.S. Why is it called the mountain?
J.T. The article points to the characteristics of the mountain. It is over against the idea of the plain or the valley and is a well-known expression in countries which have mountains.
A.R. Is this one of the mountains that are round about Jerusalem, Psalm 125?
J.T. That is the idea of it, I think. The reference is in the Songs of degrees, or ascent, which would carry with it just what we have been saying. The mountains are round about Jerusalem; so that the idea
conveyed here would be what is round about the assembly; what is for our protection.
W.F.K. Is this teaching in the mount only for disciples? It says that His disciples came to Him there. Is that a higher spiritual elevation?
J.T. Just so; the idea of the mountain runs right through. Chapter 4 has one but it is hardly in keeping with what we are saying now. It is the one to which the devil took the Lord. It is said, "Again the devil takes him to a very high mountain, and shows him all the kingdoms of the world, and their glory", verse 8. It is a similar thought, only the enemy is taking advantage of it to attempt to mislead the Lord.
A.A.T. It says, in chapter 8, that when He came down from the mountain He met a leper. Is that in the plain?
J.T. Exactly. It points to what is in the plain. We shall see more later in this inquiry, perhaps, as to chapter 8 and also chapter 17 where we have a similar allusion to what the Lord found after He came down from the mount of transfiguration. In chapter 14: 23 the Lord went up into a mountain apart to pray; a mountain is also referred to in chapter 15: 29, where it says that He sat down; then in chapter 17: 1 we have "a high mountain", which we often refer to as the mount of transfiguration; then in chapter 24 we are told that Jesus "was sitting upon the mount of Olives"; and in chapter 28 the disciples went to Galilee to the mountain which Jesus had appointed. So that the idea runs right through the book and may be well regarded as denoting what is available, in the sense of mountains, for protection.
A.I. Would the disciples be in keeping with what the Lord was doing?
J.T. They were in keeping as seen in our chapter, because they represent persons that are not afraid to take journeys, and to sacrifice to get the advantages
such as meetings like this afford. Meetings like this involve sacrifice, and the idea here would be that His disciples came to Him. He went up into the mountain and His disciples came to Him there. They knew He was there and He did not disappoint them, because it is said, "having opened his mouth, he taught them". It was worth their while to go up. And we would trust that a meeting like this is worth the while of the brethren to be here, the Spirit of God being here.
E.A.L. Would the words "having opened his mouth" link with chapter 4: 4, where it speaks of God's mouth?
J.T. Just so: "... every word which goes out through God's mouth". God was speaking in Christ.
T.E.H. Two mountains are referred to under the old economy (Deuteronomy 27). Jotham seemed to avail himself of one during a very distressing time among the people of God. It says that he stood upon mount Gerizim and cried, but when he was finished he ran away. What is the significance of him being afraid after having been on the mountain of blessing?
J.T. Well, running away would be to avoid violence, which is justifiable, if necessary. It says that it was because of Abimelech his brother.
T.E.H. He gave a most remarkable outline and warned of the result of not hearkening to God's voice.
J.T. Yes; he got his word in as to the kind of person that should rule. Abimelech was not that person, but Jotham had the right thought.
T.E.H. I was wondering if he had caught the spirit of the Lord Jesus, because this would involve universal rule eventually.
A.B.P. In Revelation 17:9 the woman is said to sit on seven mountains. Would that be a rival position to the strength of the assembly in Matthew?
J.T. I would say that; it would mean strength in the
sense of political economy or the like. The Roman system, of course, was marked by that same thing; a form of strength in the sense of subordinated skill and experience.
R.W.S. So the Lord's ministry, or doctrine, is spoken of as having authority. "He taught them as having authority". Does that link on with stability -- the idea of the mountain?
J.T. It would be the strength that goes with authority when it is of God. And, of course, this was of God.
R.W.S. Is it not so today that there is authority in the ministry?
J.T. Just so. What we have already remarked as to stability is that it belongs to the assembly, really. In Acts 15 we have the idea of what is stable set out in certain who were pillars; who were a source of strength in the assembly. Peter would be one, as Galatians 2:9 shows. He would be a source of strength through divinely given stability. Stability is implied in this gospel. It is not exactly support from the heavenly side, by what comes down from heaven. That is found in the Acts. It is what arises in view of the Spirit being here; and of course, the Spirit being here involves a way for Christ being here. It is a way for the Lord being here. So that we have men who are truly pillars alluded to in that chapter, and they are actually called that in Galatians. And these meetings, which we have from time to time, are intended to be occasions of strength. The brethren are sustained in this way by instruction, and by example, and by fellowship. Where should we be without such meetings? Where should we be without the assembly and all that it involves? We come together and acquire strength mutually by coming together; but then the Lord adds to that, saying, "Where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them", Matthew 18:20. He is there for support; so that Matthew stresses the feature of strength, but
strength arising from what is in the brethren, from what they are; and the Lord is here, and the Spirit is here, and the whole position is one of stability.
J.T.Jr. Would the legislative side, therefore, as suggested in these chapters, be enforceable? There would be strength in the legislation?
J.T. That is good. It is not a matter of so many speeches, as in well known legislative places in this and other countries where their speeches are numberless, and where there is an enormous volume of law. Someone has said that it would take six hundred years to read all the legal matter that has been published. Matthew is not that. Matthew is what is available for the assembly in brevity, without enlarging things unnecessarily. It is the strength of what is said.
C.A.M. I suppose that all that legislation is intended to bring blessing, if possible, which it does not do; but this starts with blessing?
J.T. Just so; these nine expressions of blessedness! Of course, that is the great basis of the gospel. It is a question of the legislative mountain, as we may call it, in this chapter. It begins with these blessings. And the reference is to persons; so that the thing is brought down to the disciples, and we may say, to ourselves. It is said, "Blessed are the poor in spirit", in verse 3, and so on down to verse 10, "Blessed they who are persecuted on account of righteousness", but when we come to verse 11, it is, "Blessed are ye", that is, we have the persons who are blessed. "Blessed are ye when they may reproach and persecute you, and say every wicked thing against you, lying, for my sake. Rejoice and exult, for your reward is great in the heavens; for thus have they persecuted the prophets who were before you". So that blessing is vouchsafed to us even today, in this company, when the enemy is attacking.
D.P. Why does the Lord sit down to minister in this position?
J.T. I suppose to show it is deliberative. That is what we are doing now. It involves deliberation. We are weighing what we are saying. We have opportunity to do that. How much there is in it that affords strength for the brethren!
C.F.E. Following on these blessings it says in verse 13, "Ye are the salt of the earth; but if the salt have become insipid, wherewith shall it be salted?" And then in verse 14, "Ye are the light of the world". Does that give them a dignified position?
J.T. It gives them a preservative position; and, of course, it would give them dignity if they were preserved. What we need is preservation; the whole scene around is polluted, but the salt is preservative. Light also is a preservative element, but salt is a very striking figure of what is preservative.
F.H.L. Would it appear that the test of the ministry on these mountains seems to come, in almost every case, at the foot of the mountain? This occurs in chapter 8, and then in chapter 14. The Lord comes off the mountain, and the evidence of the power is there.
J.T. Just so; and especially in chapter 17. It is so in the other gospels too, particularly in Mark 9:14 - 27. And the going up involves strength.
F.N.W. It says in Ezekiel 43:12, "This is the law of the house: Upon the top of the mountain all its border round about is most holy". Would that link with Matthew, showing how the constitution of the assembly is to be worked out from this elevated position.
J.T. Very good. It is a question of the law of the house; not the ten commandments, as we say, but law as a principle. "This is the law of the house: Upon the top of the mountain ..." It is a question of principle: a great word that belongs to christianity -- the word principle.
A.R. The last blessing has a reward in the heavens. Why is that?
J.T. "Blessed are ye when they may reproach and persecute you, and say every wicked thing against you, lying, for my sake. Rejoice and exult, for your reward is great in the heavens". You marvel at how prolific the idea of wickedness becomes. It says, "Every wicked thing". And it does not say the reward is in the mountains, because the heavens are in mind, too, in this gospel. They are in mind as conservatories, as it were, where things are kept secure; but the strength is down here where it is needed, where the enemy's power is. It is not that it comes down; it is there in these mountains. There are six of them in a good or positive sense, in this gospel.
R.W.S. It speaks earlier of certain who were "sitting in the country and shadow of death, to them has light sprung up". Is this thought of light springing up an extension of the fact of the Spirit being here?
J.T. That is just what I was thinking; it is a feature of Matthew. Light springing up is an allusion to the Spirit, I am sure. It is very precious and very comforting that there is such a thing as light springing up. John says, "In him was life, and the life was the light of men", John 1:4, but in Matthew, the light is springing up. It is found where the shadow of death was, but in John, "In him was life, and the life was the light of men". It is the implementation of Matthew showing how men are provided for as over against angels, or over against Israel, by what is in Christ. It is a question of light, but it is seen in life, and it is in Him. But Matthew says that it is springing up.
A.N.W. In John 9:5 the Lord says, "I am the light of the world", whereas here it is "Ye are the light of the world", verse 14.
J.T. So that we are reminded of, "Look on us", Acts 3:4, and we think of what the Lord is ready and able to do at any time in any gathering of His people. I mean to say, look at ourselves, in that sense. See
what there is. "Ye are the light of the world". And also, "Ye are the salt of the earth". And then all these characteristics that are mentioned in the nine beatitudes are to call attention to what the saints are, and what you can expect from them.
J.S. So that in Matthew it is a question of what is established on earth.
W.F.K. It says that the pure in heart shall see God. How do we see God? Is it through Christ?
J.T. Just so. "No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him", John 1:18. Things all must flow out from Christ. That is how a passage like that has to be understood, because everything hinges on Christ.
A.I. Would the apostle be one of "the poor in spirit" when he said he was less than the least of all saints? Would that answer to this?
J.T. Quite so. This passage would bear on Psalm 41:1: "Blessed is he that understandeth the poor". The poor are despised, but one who remembers such is valued. But here we have the "poor in spirit" as blessed. The qualities mentioned here are enrichments, which involve what we may look to and expect in one another for the carrying on of the testimony of God here below. It is what the saints are themselves and what may be worked out in them.
J.T.Jr. The Lord said to his disciples on one occasion, when they were suggesting fire from heaven, "Ye know not of what spirit ye are", Luke 9:55. Would the "poor in spirit" be a kind of characteristic quality in the saints: that they are to be marked by that?
J.T. I should think so. The Spirit of Christ says in the Psalm referred to, "Blessed is he that understandeth the poor". And Paul said that he was diligent
to remember the poor, Galatians 2:10. He was always forward to do that, but then when you think of Christ, He is to be remembered as poor. What a Man among men! And He had nothing outwardly to rely on at all. What would He say if one were to ask Him, What have you? Well, there He is; let Him be considered, reverently, and see how He went on in spite of the poverty.
D.P. Would the Lord's legislation here excel that of Moses? and would the position He occupied set aside the temple? Moses was the great legislator in the Old Testament, but would he not be superseded here by Christ?
J.T. The question is whether the Lord means to set aside anything that was of God. He said, according to verse 17: "Think not that I am come to make void the law or the prophets; I am not come to make void, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, one iota or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all come to pass". So that this gospel contemplates that whatever there is of God, it is to be conserved and used.
J.S. He established the law; He did not make it void, but established it.
J.T. Well, quite so; the whole Pentateuch is ours. "Every scripture is divinely inspired, and profitable", 2 Timothy 3:16. Things that are profitable are to be valued; and see how this gospel provides for what there is and conserves it. Everything is conserved in Christ.
A.N.W. The alternate reading to 'fulfil', in the footnote is, 'Give the fulness of'. It is not exactly to fulfil a thing as being commanded to do it, but to give the fulness of it.
J.T. That is good; that is to say, Christ comes in, and whatever there is of God He will keep and fill it out as it had never been expressed before. It is to give the fulness of the thing. I think we have to look into the matter and see whether we are making use of everything
there is, whether it be a Moses or any other. Think of how many persons there are in the Old Testament whose ministry is profitable! Take for example one man who particularly comes to my mind now, in 1 Chronicles 4:10 who asked for certain things and God granted them. It says, "And Jabez called on the God of Israel saying, Oh that thou wouldest richly bless me, and enlarge my border, and that thy hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me! And God brought about what he had requested". God brought about what that man asked for. We have to look around and see what there is. There are small or little-known persons who have something from God, and it is to be utilised, and so the Old Testament is ours. And as 1 Corinthians 3:22 says, "All are yours".
J.A.P. In that meeting in Acts 15 James called on Amos for help.
J.T. Just so; he quoted from Amos 9. I think the brethren will confirm what has been said: that Matthew is the assembly gospel and the principle would be that everything is to be utilised. If it is usable, then keep it and make the most of it.
A.B.P. Is some new thing added in verse 22? The Lord refers in verse 21 to what had been said to the ancients, but then He goes on to say, "But I say unto you", as though something further is to be brought in in this new administration.
J.T. That is very important, too. There are other things in that section if we can move on now to further thoughts in this chapter. We have touched on the blessednesses that are mentioned earlier in the chapter and now we have these things. But there is one point that we have already touched on: "Think not that I am come to make void the law or the prophets; I am not come to make void, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away,
one iota or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all come to pass", verses 17, 18. So that we can see what treasuries there are in the Pentateuch for us to explore and utilise. But then there are additions here and that is a great matter that is stressed. The Lord says, "But I say unto you", verse 22. Now the mind is directed to a great Speaker; One who has the final word, too. In verse 20, it says, "For I say unto you, that unless your righteousness surpass that of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of the heavens". That is for us, to inquire as to what quality our righteousness is; we are challenged now as to the kind of righteousness we have. Then in verse 21 the Lord goes further, "Ye have heard that it was said to the ancients. Thou shalt not kill; but whosoever shall kill shall be subject to the judgment. But I say unto you, that every one that is lightly angry with his brother shall be subject to the judgment". The brethren should be reminded that emphasis is placed upon what the Lord says in this section: "I say ..." Attention is being called to the greater Speaker that is here. He is the One to whom we must pay attention. Then it goes on: "But whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be subject to be called before the sanhedrim; but whosoever shall say, Fool, shall be subject to the penalty of the hell of fire". I think there is instruction there that we should take notice of as to judgment. These things come into our care meetings and have to be looked into as to what they are, because sin is graded, and the Lord is grading sin here.
A.I. What would "lightly angry" with a brother mean?
J.T. Well, one word I would say about that is, "Be angry, and do not sin", Ephesians 4:26. Do not sin in being angry with your brother; but it is clear you have to regard your brother in his true value, and remember he is an important person in the mind of heaven, so do not deprecatingly say things about him.
J.S. Were you going to say something about gradation?
J.T. There is not time to go into it in detail. Our brother was commenting on being angry with our brother; and then it speaks of calling your brother a fool. How lightly we may do these things and sin! But then the gradations are there down to verse 22. Then it goes on to say, "If therefore thou shouldest offer thy gift at the altar, and there shouldest remember that thy brother has something against thee, leave there thy gift before the altar, and first go, be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift", verses 23, 24. So we are told how to behave; that we cannot think we are perfect because we are offering a gift to God. We have to think of the past, too. God requires what is past; and we are to see about our brother; if he has anything against us, can we not amend it. I believe it is on the basis of Romans; being right with God, and being right on earth before we think of ascending to heaven.
W.F.K. Would this point to the gathering together to the Lord's supper?
W.W.M. In mentioning Romans, did you have in mind chapter 8, where it says, "the righteous requirement of the law should be fulfilled in us", verse 4. Not only has it been fulfilled in Christ, but it is to be fulfilled in us now.
J.T. Just so -- so that if we speak of the Lord's coming, because we ought to speak of it constantly, for it is a precious expectation, then, what about our righteousness? That has to be attended to, but here we are reminded of the quality of our righteousness, not the volume, but the quality.
W.W.M. Would verse 23 refer to the sensitiveness of the Spirit in relation to the fact that a brother has something against you? That consciousness would be
brought about by the Spirit and affect one in such a way that he would be exercised about it?
J.T. Yes. The Spirit would be present to remind you.
W.W.M. It speaks of those "who do not walk according to flesh but according to Spirit". If I walk according to flesh I think of myself, but if the Spirit is operating with me I think of my brother.
J.T. So that the priestly state would refer to this, offering something to God, but in that priestly state, if something comes up in your mind that you recognise has to be straightened out here before we go up we have to pursue the matter until it is straightened out.
A.A.T. I notice the way this question is handled here is, that if the brother has anything against you, you are to take it up with him; but in Matthew 18 it is the other way around.
J.T. Matthew 18 has to be looked at from a distance. It is an objective view. You are to consider for the meeting, for the assembly.
C.F.E. You spoke about the quality of our righteousness. Were you referring to verse 20? It says, "For I say unto you, that unless your righteousness surpass that of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of the heavens".
J.T. Yes. I had in my mind what is said in Genesis 15 about righteousness; that Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. That is a fine quality of righteousness; faith reckoned as righteousness; not simply what you do with your hands, but faith being reckoned to you as righteousness. It is the quality of righteousness.
R.W.S. There seems to be a certain ruggedness which the Lord is developing in this gospel to carry the truth forward, a sort of rugged fibre in the spiritual constitution, because all these features must finally be carried forward. The Lord says, "Again I say to you,
that if two of you shall agree on the earth concerning any matter", Matthew 18:19.
J.T. Yes; to illustrate that, I would refer to the book called "The Irrationalism of Infidelity". It is a very rugged production, but a very effective one as dealing with evil. We have to be rugged in dealing with evil sometimes, and I think that when we come to chapter 23 of this book, we shall see what that ruggedness means, how the Lord deals with evil. He used strong language, and we get touches of it here.
E.A.L. Righteous anger would be distinct from "lightly angry". Being easily angered may arise from personal feelings; whereas righteous anger would be more in relation to assembly matters.
J.T. Yes; and strong language may be necessary, too. If we look at chapter 23 we shall see how strong the language is: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites", verse 29. It is strong, rugged language, but how effective! It is the Lord Himself that is using it.
E.T.P. Paul's language was rugged in connection with Peter when he withstood him to the face, Galatians 2:11.
J.T. Just so; you might say it was not seemly that a younger man should be so strong in speaking to an older brother, because Peter was actually older than Paul, but Paul says, "I withstood him to the face, because he was to be condemned".
A.R. Who is the judge and the officer in verse 25 of this chapter?
J.T. "Make friends with thine adverse party quickly, whilst thou art in the way with him; lest some time the adverse party deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say to thee, Thou shalt in no wise come out thence till thou hast paid the last farthing". I would say they belong to the heavenly system. There are many so-called officers or policemen here in this city.
They are called 'officers of the law', but there are a good many judicial men, too. The judicial department in this city is big, and the one in Washington is bigger still, and it has to be respected. I refer to this just to call attention to the system. This country has a legal system, and the heavenly system has a legal department and the judge is supposed to be there; so that in the book of Leviticus, where leprosy is dealt with, there is always supposed to be a priest there. He is constantly needed; he is never wanting. It never has to be said that there is no priest. The divine system has these departments, and David's regime implied that. It was departmental; David's twenty-four courses; the number twenty-four instead of the number twelve was to show how the thing was intensified. And so, in the book of Revelation, you have the number twenty-four carried out. The book requires it.
G.V.D. What answers in the assembly's day to the sanhedrim in verse 22?
J.T. That was a Jewish court, having a supreme character, but in Deuteronomy 16:18 lesser or lower courts are spoken of. If you make comparisons between christianity and Judaism, you might call them local care meetings. There were lesser bodies in different cities, so that instead of going to Jerusalem, they could settle matters in them.
G.V.D. It had to do with one who was contentious, who said to his brother, Raca; that one is subject to be called before the sanhedrim.
J.T. The sanhedrim, as said before, had supreme authority, and could deal with such a matter.
J.T.Jr. The Lord suggests, in verse 25, to settle matters out of court; that is, without taking them to court. "Make friends with thine adverse party quickly, whilst thou art in the way with him". The thing would not need to go any further if it were settled in that way.
J.T. It is a very happy thing if you can have matters
settled out of court, so to speak, because it means that love exists if you settle things without formal assembly attention.
E.A.L. Do you think that one thing which prevents our being quickly reconciled is that we carry resentment against what the brethren have done, instead of recognising the Scripture and working matters out on a spiritual basis?
J.T. Just so; we are anticipating a little, but chapter 18 provides for two or three to be brought into the matter before taking it to the assembly. The matter can be settled out of court if love exists.
E.A.L. Reconciliation is suggested in verse 24: "First go, be reconciled to thy brother".
J.T. These are important points. We are not yet in chapter 18 where things are settled in court; where assembly authority is asserted. In this chapter, the Lord is legislating for smaller matters. You might say, we are on the mount of legislation, and in law there are small matters and great matters, so I think these instructions are for small matters; the idea of being reconciled.
R.H.S. Does the fact that it says, "Lest some time the adverse party deliver thee to the judge", suggest that there is time for the offender to be reconciled to his adversary?
J.T. Yes; but be careful; he may not wait! He may proceed to the judge, but this small court, as it were, is provided so that we can settle small matters and go along happily.
F.H.L. You have referred to the wear and tear on the circle of fellowship. Would not the law provide a constitution that would resist all that.
D.Macd. Does verse 26 indicate that unless we are reconciled God's government may come upon us?
J.T. I think that is a very wholesome inquiry, because God's government comes in. God does not
have to give an account of His matters. Things may happen and we may not get any account of why they happen, but if one should go back in one's history he will know. So, we should see to matters. "Verily I say to thee, Thou shalt in no wise come out thence till thou hast paid the last farthing". That is the government of God.
E.A.L. I think you have said that metropolitanism, as understood in the light of the truth, is not a geographical thing but a heavenly one.
J.T. That is right. Metropolitanism, if brought down to our time, is the heavenly side; 'Jerusalem above' is heavenly. Therefore, metropolitanism today would be that we have recourse to heaven, if the brethren understand what I mean. The metropolitan idea is seen in the book of Acts, up to chapter 14, when eldership was first inaugurated. When eldership was inaugurated it was with the idea that there was the means of dealing with matters locally, because the elders would be men who had experience with God.
T.E.H. Did Jethro provide for these smaller matters being attended to, calling for skill in others besides Moses?
J.T. Quite so. In Exodus 18, Jethro proposed to Moses that he should have helpers in the judgment as carrying on the service of God among the Israelites; that he should have chiefs of tens, and fifties, and hundreds, and thousands; that he should not be required to do everything himself. That was the idea; what Jethro advised Moses was right and Moses accepted it. But Hobab, who appears to be his son, in Numbers 10, is not of any value at all. So that we might be misled if we were to make too much of Jethro or anyone like him. They are children of the wilderness. They do not characteristically belong to heaven. Jethro did well in Exodus 18, but in Numbers 10 Hobab would not go with them into Canaan. He would not be eyes for
Israel; he was a child of the wilderness and said he would return to his own land. Therefore, you would not rely too much on that type of man. It is only the heavenly man that can be relied on fully. "He who comes from above is above all", John 3:31. You can rely on Him.
A.B.P. Would it be out of place to ask, in relation to administration, if there is a scriptural basis for meetings in a general area, but in separate towns, working together in relation to administrative matters? Is it a right principle that separate municipalities in the same general area work together as one, administratively?
J.T. We might begin with what is being done in this city, and in other cities where there are more meetings than one, but are regarded as all in the same city, that they work together, as in Corinth. But you have in mind separate towns that have no direct municipal relation, and that they assume to work together?
A.B.P. There are several instances in this country where that is being done, I believe, and I was wondering about the principle that relates to it in the light of what we have been speaking about. Is this a right question to bring into this meeting?
J.T. What we have just said is clear enough, that is what we are going on with in this city; but then, if you go across the river you will find several meetings that are not related to each other as we are here, and therefore there are different circumstances, and the principles governing these circumstances have to be considered. Perhaps you would state clearly, by example, what you mean.
A.B.P. I simply had in mind what is being done in the Boston area, and at Winnipeg and St. James, and elsewhere, and has been considered for a long time in the San Francisco area. One thought it may be appropriate to ask the question here, for help as to the
principle underlying the working together administratively of meetings that are not really in the same city.
J.T. Then the question comes up immediately whether the word city applies to the area, and in some cases that is so, and in others the brethren who reside there do not think so. If you can designate that it is a city the matter is clear, for there can be only one assembly in a city. Paul directed Titus to "establish elders in each city", Titus 1:5. Therefore, when greater New York was inaugurated, all the boroughs of the city were regarded as New York because they were all governed by one mayor. Thus other places can be so designated on the same principle. In general, the local brethren in any place should be able to name it.
A.P.T. In Acts 16 it says that Paul came to Derbe and Lystra. And then later on it says that Timothy had a good testimony of the brethren in Lystra and Iconium. There seems to be one idea there with respect to several places: Derbe and Lystra in verse 1, and Lystra and Iconium in verse 2. There seem to be several cities there all together.
J.T. You cannot be sure as to whether they were regarded as one, because reports of a brother's conduct, or qualities, or value in the service, may spread far beyond his local meeting. Besides, chapter 14: 6 links Derbe as a city with Lycaonia and Lystra.
A.P.T. It says that a certain disciple was there.
J.T. 'There', I believe, should be taken as referring to Lystra as last mentioned, especially as Derbe is regarded as a city, as already remarked. I do not think the facts would warrant our regarding it other than that the cities were there and that Timothy was well reported of the brethren in those places.
R.W.S. Acts 20:4 says, "Timotheus of Derbe".
J.T. There you get the brother's locality. I am glad you mentioned that because that passage mentions several others, and the point was to bring out that the
work of God was designated in all these different places including Derbe.
F.H.L. The principle remains that assembly administration has a local character.
J.T. Just so. We are referring to the constitutionality of the assembly, but now that this matter has come up, we might cite London as a clear case of where wisdom is required because various changes had to be made from the time of the revival of the truth to the present. And brethren in other localities where there are several meetings will be well advised if they follow what is done there. The immense increase in the growth of cities shows that great wisdom is needed in the determination of boundaries. The history of the work of God has to be noted carefully. And where the metropolitan thought is already applied it should not be ignored.
E.A.L. Do you think the idea of Decapolis, denoting ten cities, may be a help in that regard?
J.T. That is good, too; the grouping of the city idea and the accumulated evil that is inevitably involved being kept in mind. The idea of 'ten' has in mind the responsibility that is there. I believe that is what enters into that particular section of scripture.
D.P.C. In Acts 15, we see brethren gathered together, some from distant parts of the world. Would you say that was a great general conference?
J.T. I do not think there was one like it before, and there has never been one since which has had the support of the Spirit. That is the last general council we get in the Scriptures. It is as if God were to say, in receding from Jerusalem, that He loved it and was hesitant to leave it. He had that council there to bring out and expose the doctrines of Judaism, which were being used of the devil to corrupt the assembly. God settled the issue in Jerusalem; He settled the matter there, and Paul and those with him had to go there.
A.P.T. In chapter 5, Jerusalem is called, "The city of the great king", verse 35.
J.T. These expressions ought to be noticed in Matthew for it is the only gospel in which Jerusalem is called "the holy city", chapter 4: 5 and 27: 53.
Zechariah 3:1, 2; 2 Timothy 4:16 - 18
I wish to show you how that for which Jerusalem stood in the Old Testament times is now connected with the assembly, and that directly the true bearing and character of the assembly comes to light the world-power attacks it. I therefore refer to the apostle Paul, because he was the great vessel in whom that testimony came to light. You will remember that in the detail of his conversion in Acts 26, it is said that a light above the brightness of the sun shone from heaven round about him. There had been light set at Jerusalem, but it is a more wonderful thing to be illuminated from heaven. Now we may say that heavenly light shines about us; the light shone all about Paul; and so when Christ was born the glory of the Lord shone round about the shepherds. It is one thing to have the light about you and it is quite another thing to have it in you.
In Paul there was the reflection of the testimony; he was the witness of it, and so he comes in contact with the beast, of Daniel 7:7. The four gentile monarchies are likened to four beasts in that chapter. Now beasts are made to be taken and destroyed, but God, in wonderful forbearance, bears with these beasts till they commit some overt act against the testimony. In this there is an important principle for us. We are not to interfere with the agents of evil. We know they are there. We know they are ravenous beasts, but we are not to interfere with them. Neither does God interfere with them until they commit some overt act against Him. He allows them, in wondrous patience, to continue their course.
The wicked man described in Daniel 8:23 - 25 who "shall destroy marvellously, and shall prosper, and shall practise", is allowed to pursue his course until he stands up against the Prince of princes and then he is
"broken without hand". In the future the whole world-power will combine under one head. The beast, the false prophet and the kings of the earth will all be gathered together against the Lord, but only to meet their final doom. The Lord will come out of heaven with His glorious titles; for He has imperial titles. The only one entitled to imperial titles is Christ. He will appear as King of kings and Lord of lords. He will come in imperial and heavenly glory. The beast and the false prophet, the great representatives of worldly power, will be taken and cast alive into the lake of fire. Think of the power the Lord has! Consider the power of the angel who sat at the Lord's tomb in Matthew 28, of whom it is said, "His look was as lightning ... and for fear of him the guards trembled and became as dead men". If all the navies and all the armies of the world were put together, how easily God could smite them with lightning! Now the Lord Jesus Christ controls all that power. If all the powers of the nations were concentrated under one head, what is that in the presence of Christ? The beast and the false prophet will be taken alive and cast into the lake of fire. And then the great adversary, whose titles are given to us in Revelation 20, will be bound; an angel comes down with a chain, and what irony is in that figure, and that great adversary, the Devil and Satan, is chained and cast into the bottomless pit to remain there for a thousand years. Such is the power that is in the hand of Christ, the great Defender of the assembly.
When the 'beast' attacked Paul, he said, "The Lord stood with me". There was not another to stand by him; he said, "All men forsook me". How searching that is! How we recoil from "the lion's mouth"! Paul did not; he says, "Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of
the lion". The lion was not destroyed, nor is he yet destroyed. Indeed, Paul was afterwards, as it were given to him, and it was Paul's glory to give up his life for Christ, but the Lord did not allow him to be sacrificed to the lion until by him the preaching was fully known. If the preaching is fully known, Paul can depart; he can have the honour of martyrdom. But the power is in the hands of Christ, and the lion's mouth must be closed until the preaching is fully known. Thank God, Paul was retained here until then. The Lord was the great Defender of the testimony and the preaching must be fully known and all the gentiles must hear and then Paul can depart.
Peter said, in writing his second epistle, that he was about to put off his tabernacle, as the Lord had shown him; but this was not until he had finished his testimony. He was not communicating anything new; he wrote to remind the saints of what had been already ministered. He puts off his tabernacle when he has finished his ministry, and not before. And so with Paul; the lion's mouth is stopped, so to speak, till the preaching is fully known, till all the gentiles hear. We are among the gentiles, and thank God, we have heard. But the lion is going to open his mouth again. The great western persecuting power is really continued in the ecclesiastical system that has replaced the empire, and it will reappear in an imperial character and it will attack the testimony, but only to be broken, never again to be revived.
Matthew 8:1 - 34
J.T. Mention has been made of the references to mountains in this gospel. We noted at the last meeting that in chapter 5 it is said: "But seeing the crowds, he went up into the mountain, and having sat down, his disciples came to him; and, having opened his mouth, he taught them", verses 1, 2. That chapter begins the subject of mountains; although chapter 4 mentions one, but it hardly fits in with the subject, because it is one that the devil used in connection with one of the temptations. Chapter 5, therefore, properly begins the subject of mountains, as we were saying, which would direct our minds to the word in the Psalms that Jerusalem is encompassed with mountains in the sense of protection. "Jerusalem! -- mountains are round about her, and Jehovah is round about his people, from henceforth and for evermore", Psalm 125:2. The teaching on the mountain runs on to the end of chapter 7, where it is said, "And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were astonished at his doctrine, for he taught them as having authority". Then in verse 1 of chapter 8, it says, "And when he had come down from the mountain, great crowds followed him". So that now He has come down from the mountain to the plain; and therefore we have to consider chapter 8 with this in mind. It affords us much instruction as to what happened on the plain, because it refers to the Lord's work, not so much in the sense of teaching, but healing. The subject runs on to the end of chapter 9, where we are told, "And Jesus went round all the cities and the villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the glad tidings of the kingdom, and healing every disease and every bodily weakness". And then it says further, "But when he saw the crowds he was moved with compassion
for them, because they were harassed, and cast away as sheep not having a shepherd. Then saith he to his disciples, The harvest is great and the workmen are few; supplicate therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he send forth workmen unto his harvest". So that we have in these two chapters the Lord's immediate work, not so much in teaching, as in preaching and in healing. And the first case is the leper. Then we have, in verse 5, a centurion coming to Him and seeking help for his servant who was paralysed. And then, verse 14: "When Jesus had come to Peter's house, he saw his mother-in-law laid down and in a fever". Verse 16 says, "And when the evening was come, they brought to him many possessed by demons". Thus we have one instance after another in the sense of healing.
H.H. Would you say that over against the speaking on the mountain, which would be the principles of the kingdom of the heavens, you now have power, the miracles effected in one and another, showing that the teaching connected with the kingdom is accompanied by power?
J.T. Yes; that is just what I think. First, the mountain, or mountains, for there are six of them engaged in this sense, contemplate the administrative service of the Lord, but the plain would be the meeting of the need in humanity to bring about what corresponds to the teaching.
A.A.T. Is it possible that a saint may be a leper?
J.T. Well, I think so. The subject of leprosy is defined in Leviticus, and clearly the allusion is to persons who have a place amongst God's people. And if one such is a leper, of course, he has to be dealt with as such. That is what is in mind. But I should say that the subject of leprosy in itself refers to sin in its working in unconverted persons. Luke 5 illustrates this, for the man in verse 12, is said to be "full of leprosy", and this
corresponds with Peter's confession; "I am a sinful man", verse 8.
C.N. There seems to be some faith in this man. He says, "Lord, if thou wilt, thou art able to cleanse me".
J.T. Well, that would show that he would have some knowledge of Christ, because he was aware of His power; "If thou wilt, thou art able to cleanse me". It was a question of His disposition. Therefore, the gospel would meet this situation, for it brings out the disposition of Christ to heal. So it says, "And he stretched out his hand and touched him, saying, I will", showing His disposition: and then He adds, "Be cleansed. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed". The immediate completeness of the cure is striking.
C.F.E. Why do you think the priest is brought in here?
J.T. I think to make provision for the old economy, seeing that it was not yet abandoned. We were noticing at the last reading that in Matthew the Lord takes up whatever can be used. He says, in chapter 5, "Think not that I am come to make void the law or the prophets; I am not come to make void, but to fulfil". So Matthew would say, Whatever is usable should be used; hence the priest is still usable.
H.H. Would you connect leprosy with state or with guilt, or with both?
J.T. I think it is state, properly, but it is a state in which sin is operative.
H.H. Naaman was an honourable man, "but a leper". It seems to suggest state.
J.T. I would think it is meant to represent the state of man as sinful.
Rem. Before he asked for healing the man did the Lord homage.
J.T. Showing that he reverenced Him, which was a good sign.
A.R. The Lord is morally as great on the plain as He is on the mountain.
J.T. Quite so, but the power is seen on the plain; the leper assumed that the Lord had power to do what was needed. It was only a question of His disposition to do it, and the Lord "stretched out his hand and touched him, saying, I will". That would be His disposition; so that the power was equivalent to the truth ministered on the mountain.
F.N.W. Would this case be an encouragement to us, as suggesting one who is searched out by the teaching on the mountain, who comes to the Lord and gets right?
J.T. The healing is done immediately. The suggestion is that diseases are not cured by stages; in fact, the Lord in all cases in the gospels has power to do things immediately. It is the immediate power of God in Christ, which is seen in the kingdom.
A.I. What is the Lord's disposition in this way, especially in view of the young?
J.T. Well, the gospel is intended to unfold that; hence great stress is laid on the preaching throughout the gospels and epistles; not simply that the power is there, but also the preaching, to make the teaching effective. The teaching is to be made effective. This involves gift. In the Lord it was perfect.
R.D.G. Does Mark's reference to this incident help as to the Lord's disposition? It says, "And there comes to him a leper, beseeching him, and falling on his knees to him, and saying to him, If thou wilt thou canst cleanse me. But Jesus, moved with compassion, having stretched out his hand, touched him, and says to him, I will, be thou cleansed", Mark 1:40, 41.
J.T. So that it is not only the power but the compassion; hence, we have "the compassions of God" worked out in Romans.
And then the next feature of the Lord's work in this
chapter is the healing of the paralytic. "And when he had entered into Capernaum, a centurion came to him, beseeching him, and saying, Lord, my servant lies paralytic in the house, suffering grievously. And Jesus says to him, I will come and heal him". That is, there is no question of the Lord's will or disposition in the matter; it is already asserted. The Lord said, "I will come and heal him". It is a positive statement. He did not say, 'Try to heal him, but to do it'. "And the centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not fit that thou shouldest enter under my roof; but only speak a word, and my servant shall be healed. For I also am a man under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say to this one, Go, and he goes; and to another, Come, and he comes; and to my bondman, Do this, and he does it. And when Jesus heard it, he wondered, and said to those who followed, Verily, I say unto you, Not even in Israel have I found so great faith", verses 8 - 10. So this brings us to the next great matter; that is to say, faith. It is not said to be in the one that is to be healed, but in the centurion whose servant was to be healed; he had faith, which is a matter to be specially noted if we are to gain by what happens on the plain. The Lord is apprehended by one, as One under authority. The centurion understood the position, that the Lord was here from God, under authority, acting under God; and the centurion said in effect, I am in the same position. That showed that faith was in operation. Thus the truth in this chapter is developed from one subject to another.
A.P.T. This second case involves more than one person. Would there be something in that?
J.T. Well, it shows that if there is any spiritual need amongst us, the exercise need not be confined to the person involved. There is the word, "For each shall bear his own burden", Galatians 6:5; but then at the same time, it says, "Bear one another's burdens", verse 2,
and that brings in more than one. It might be more than one or two; it might be any number. That is to say, the idea of sympathy in the service is something of very great importance. If a brother or sister is sick, he, or she, has a burden, and it should not be left to him alone. On the other hand, if he is complaining unfairly that the brethren are not looking after him, well, the word is, Let him bear his own burden. He ought to learn to do that.
A.A.T. Is paralysis a definite form of spiritual illness?
J.T. I think it is. As thus affected you are not able to do anything spiritually.
A.R. Some say that they are not free to go about in service on their own account; that they go about amongst the saints on invitation only. Would that be abrogated in this chapter? As being under authority, it is a question of being sent, is it not? The Lord was a Man under authority. Is that right?
J.T. Well, the idea is that christianity is a kingdom or system. It is not simply a matter of isolated servants, but servants in relation to the Lord and to one another. The centurion was related to the imperial military system of Rome, and that, of course, was only an allusion to the Lord's position. He was here in relation to a system, the kingdom of the heavens. Therefore, the saints ought to understand that if there is need for this or that, the system affords what is needed. So that if we are compassionate, we will meet a man according to what his needs may be; and there is authority in it. Hence, the idea of christianity is that the Lord has authority and the saints are all under that authority. That is the point the centurion makes in saying, I am a man under authority. He is transferring the idea to the Lord, understanding His position. The centurion understood His position; that He was a Man under authority, meaning that He was under God.
C.A.M. You were making a point recently about divine appointment. In that way, this man's very position in those circumstances would be by divine appointment, would you say?
J.T. Quite so; and every one under him did what he wanted to be done. There was no question of, Will you do it? He says, "I say unto this one, Go, and he goes". That is what marks the kingdom of the heavens, and of course, we all want to be available to the Lord, and even to one another, because we are to be subject to one another. Therefore, if there is anything needed, and we have some means of helping, the thing is to do it immediately. It is our business, as it were, since we are in this system, and the system is workable, and if a person is out of joint, as it were, the word is, "Ye who are spiritual restore such a one"; so that he may be in joint and ready for the function that is appointed to him. See note in New Translation on "restore" in Galatians 6:1.
C.F.E. The centurion says, "But only speak a word". Would that be a word for the present moment?
J.T. Well, the centurion knew the position, that all that was needed was that the Lord should say a word; not write, or preach, but "only speak a word, and my servant shall be healed". It is to show how immediate and effective the divine system is.
A.I. It has in mind, too, has it not, the far-reaching effect of the word of God?
J.T. Yes; the Lord graciously said, "I will come and heal him", but the presence of faith and understanding in the centurion is what the Lord stresses.
A.R. Should every servant amongst the saints today work on this same principle of delegated authority?
J.T. Yes; and things are done at once. It is the workableness of the system, I believe, that is to be expressed. And I believe that John's gospel, although it is not just what we are speaking of, shows how love
enters into it. John's gospel shows how instantaneous love is, how quickly it will act. And Luke's account of this incident shows how love entered into it. His servant was 'dear' to the centurion, and the Jews said, "he loves our nation, and himself has built the synagogue for us".
R.W.S. In many matters now things are protracted; they are not done immediately. Why is that?
J.T. Well, that may mean something in the sense of paralysis. I think that John's gospel would be the great remedy. It is the greatest of the four. It is a question of love.
J.S. "For God has not sent his Son into the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him", John 3:17.
J.T. God loved it. That is the greatest thing that you could say of the world; that God loved it. "God so loved the world".
D.P. The world relies on military power, but here is a case that such power cannot meet.
J.T. Primarily it is a question of the good relations between master and servant; the centurion is the master, and the servant is the paralytic. The relations between them are the opposite of trades unionism.
H.H. A great feature in John is the word 'sent' which occurs some forty times. That would fit with this thought of authority, that the Lord moved under divine commission. And speaking of servants, is it not a question of whether they are going as under authority? The principle is that one is sent. I suppose that is very important.
J.T. Very important; it is not whether he is invited: it is a question of whether he is sent.
A.P.T. The Lord says, "I will come". That involved that He was already under authority.
J.T. Quite so. He was here to meet need. God anointed Him, and He "went through all quarters doing
good, and healing all that were under the power of the devil, because God was with him", Acts 10:38.
C.N. This paralytic was in the house. "My servant lies paralytic in the house, suffering grievously".
J.T. That would show how love was operative, as we have been saying; that the servant had a place in the house. It was not an outbuilding or a loft. So the fact that the centurion afforded a place in his house for his sick servant would stress the idea that love is operative.
F.S.C. What would you say about his being unfit for the Lord to come into his house?
J.T. It was the sense he had of his own unworthiness. He would be a lowly kind of man. How different from the ordinary soldier! Underneath was the work of God in this man. Luke stresses it more than Matthew.
A.A.T. Was this centurion a Roman?
A.A.T. Then he was properly outside of Israel?
J.T. He evidently resided in Capernaum. He was a compassionate sort of man, for he acted the part of a father to his servant. But he was a subject of the work of God. The Lord wondered as to him. He said, "Verily I say unto you. Not even in Israel have I found so great faith", verse 10. Intelligence is seen in the man, that he understood the Lord's position and service. The Lord regards the centurion's faith as the basis of the healing of the paralytic, verse 13.
T.E.H. Would you help us further as to invitation? The great light and truth that we enjoy in this hemisphere lies open to invitation, does it not? The Macedonian said, "Pass over ... and help us".
J.T. The real basis of the service of the kingdom is in being sent. It is a question of authority. The Macedonian case is striking, but it is a call for help, not an invitation. It was a national matter, really a continental matter. It was an appeal for help from Europe. "There was a certain Macedonian man,
standing and beseeching him, and saying, Pass over into Macedonia and help us", Acts 16:9. It is not properly an invitation; it is an appeal; there is need. The word is, "Pass over ... and help us".
T.E.H. Does their conclusion that the Lord had 'called' the apostle help as to the idea of being sent?
J.T. Just so; Paul concluded that the thing was so, that there was an appeal, a call from Europe, and the idea has run across the continents, to America, and then to Australia.
J.H.P. Is it connected with the thought of many coming from the rising and setting sun and sitting down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?
J.T. Well, that comes in here. The Lord says, "But I say unto you, that many shall come from the rising and setting sun, and shall lie down at table with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens", verse 11. There is no other kingdom like it. It bears on all humanity; "the rising and setting sun". But "the sons of the kingdom" are those that were merely professedly in it, the Jews, and they "shall be cast out into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth", verse 12.
H.H. Would that be in line with the beginning of this gospel: "Where is the king of the Jews that has been born?" chapter 2: 2. Then the kingdom of the heavens comes in. His kingdom set up already; and then the power of the kingdom of which we are speaking now?
J.T. I would say that, because the magi got into their minds that His kingdom would be extensive. They would consider themselves in it. They had come to worship Him, from a long way, apparently.
F.H.L. Could we apply the operation of faith company-wise, where there is this paralysis? The Lord says, "As thou hast believed". Would that be applicable to such a situation company-wise?
J.T. Well, I think that if we understand the system
in relation to what is said in Galatians: "Ye who are spiritual restore such a one", it is for each of us to see whether he can do that. If I am spiritual, I will be able to do it. I will be able to restore such a one so that he is able to do his part in the divine system.
J.A.P. Has the Lord given us authority over our own means to relieve the burdens of one and another in that way?
J.T. I would say that; so that you have to look into your bank account and see how much you can do in a given case. Money is plentiful now; this is, referring to the practical side, but it is remarkable the amount of money there is in circulation. The question is whether it becomes the medium of love. If it becomes circulatory as the handmaid of love, then it is of use; otherwise, it will only puff up those who have it.
J.A.P. Would bearing one another's burdens help to release one another from pressures that would hinder us in our souls?
J.T. Yes; and thus fulfil the law of Christ.
D.Macd. While you are discussing the practical side, how far can we go in relation to the matter of healing as seen in the epistle of James?
J.T. Well, it is a question as to whether there is faith. The "prayer of faith" is the point. Someone might say, Well, it is God who does the thing; which of course is admitted. We gladly recognise that God alone can do those things, but the "prayer of faith" is said to do it. The prayer of faith shall heal the sick. It is a question of faith and the prayer of faith.
R.D.G. Would you say, that in referring to the centurion's great faith, the Lord Jesus had in mind not only his confidence but his intelligence?
J.T. I think He did. I think the Lord must have been very pleased with his attitude, speaking reverently, that the man was so intelligent that he could say what he did. It is as if he said to the Lord, 'I know exactly how
you are situated; that you are here on the part of God, and all you will have to do is to speak a word and my servant shall be healed'. It is an acknowledgment of what the power of God effected in the man. That is the idea of the kingdom of the heavens.
J.S. The officer was looking at the Lord as under supreme authority?
J.T. Well, quite so; the Lord must have felt it keenly and appreciated it keenly. He says "Not even in Israel have I found so great faith".
W.W.M. Would you say that there are two points we might get from the teaching; one would be the idea of intense subjection, which the centurion intimated as to himself; and the other is to strengthen our faith?
J.T. Just so; and then the skill that would go with the intelligence that the man had, because God gives us intelligence as to everything. A christian has intelligence, you might say, in principle by being a christian. He has the Holy Spirit; he knows more than the ancients; he knows more than the scientists, because the Spirit of God gives him knowledge.
H.H. An unction, would you say?
J.T. Just so; "And ye have the unction from the holy one, and ye know all things", 1 John 2:20.
A.I. Why then does it say here that when Jesus heard it, He wondered?
J.T. Well, that is one of the most remarkable things. You are reminded of Abraham's servant (who is a type of the Holy Spirit), when he saw how gracefully and liberally Rebecca gave him to drink and the camels also he was astonished at her, Genesis 24:21.
D.P. Would a man like this be balanced, giving to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God, what is God's?
J.T. Quite so; but he would make far more of God than Caesar.
A.R. Was there a good relationship between Paul and Timothy? He sent Timothy to Corinth.
J.T. Quite so; Timothy was in the position of a servant to Paul, a peculiar thing. Apollos was not in that position in relation to Paul, but Timotheus and Titus were, showing that in the divine system, there is such a thing as moral superiority in men like Paul and John.
A.R. Apollos had his own mind about going to Corinth.
J.T. He was, so to speak, an independent servant. He was not in the position of Titus and Timotheus. God honoured that. He came from Alexandria, and he has a peculiar place. God brought him into a position where He could manifest this principle of independency in service.
S.M. Do Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob represent what is living?
J.T. I would think so; those that could lie down at table. That is what the Lord says here: "But I say unto you, that many shall come from the rising and setting sun, and shall lie down at table with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens".
S.M. Referring again to love, John says, "Jesus, ... having loved his own who were in the world, loved them to the end", John 13:1. And the Lord said of him, "If I will that he abide until I come", John 21:22. Do you think both thoughts would be supported by love?
J.T. Well, quite so; the Spirit of God has recorded that John was the disciple whom Jesus loved, and surely that ought to fit in with the fact that if the Lord wished to keep John to the end of the dispensation. He was entitled to do it; indeed, we might say that love was entitled to it. "If I will that he abide until I come, what is that to thee?" That would be the independency which Apollos had come into. The Lord was independent in that sense: He could use His servant and keep him here until now, if He wished, but He is not doing
it. John has that peculiar place, and thus his ministry goes through to the end of the dispensation.
H.H. How completely Peter surrendered to Paul in his second epistle! He says, "our beloved brother Paul". What a high level he put Paul's ministry on.
J.T. He called it Scripture. It reminds us of how God names things. Sarah's word to Abraham, "Cast out the maid servant and her son" is called Scripture in Galatians 4:30.
A.A.T. Will you say something about the handling of the fever in the case of Peter's mother-in-law?
J.T. Well, that is a house matter; it is a family matter. "And when Jesus had come to Peter's house, he saw his mother-in-law laid down and in a fever; and he touched her hand, and the fever left her, and she arose and served him". This is the first case, I think, of a person who is healed coming into the service immediately: "And she arose and served him". Elsewhere, "she served them". But here, she served Him. She was a mother-in-law, too, and fever causes irritation, and the circumstances would tend to increase it, but nobody asked the Lord to heal her. He did it without being asked. It is very touching, I think, especially that she is related to Peter. It shows how the Lord thinks of those related to His servants.
J.S. Is service in view in the fact that He touched her hand?
J.T. Yes; the hand is often referred to as denoting service. The woman was ready to serve when healed.
W.F.K. It is Peter's house, too, into which the Lord was free to enter.
A.P.T. The healing of Peter's wife's mother seems to be a terminus.
J.T. It says, "And when the evening was come, they brought to him many possessed by demons, and he cast
out the spirits with a word, and healed all that were ill; so that that should be fulfilled which was spoken through Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities and bore our diseases". Now we have a change-over, for those present were learning from what had happened. "They brought to him many possessed by demons, and he cast out the spirits with a word"; that is what had happened already; "and healed all that were ill". The next thing is that it is resulting in a prophetic fulfilment; that is to say, things must come into prophetic position, the testimony of the kingdom implies that prophecy had been uttered centuries before, and things must come under the prophetic position; so that we are now living in a prophetic position, whatever it may be, and the thing is to be in accord with it.
H.H. And not go against the signals!
J.S. In that light you would maintain all Scripture.
J.T. Yes, "which God has spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets since time began", Acts 3:21.
A.P.T. Would you say the book of Revelation indicates a prophetic position, and it is a case of whether we may be entering upon some of the things that the Lord had in mind?
J.T. Yes; and I believe that is why so much was made of prophecy in the beginning of the present revival; the point was that the Spirit of God would bring out the prophetic position, and that we must not move out of it. Hence the prominent place prophetic ministry has in Matthew; also in the first epistle to the Corinthians.
C.F.E. What would you say about the verse, "And ... they brought to him ..."?
J.T. It is impersonal; whoever they were, some were doing this. And so it is said, "that that should be fulfilled which was spoken through Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities and bore our
diseases", verse 17. They were thus in the prophetic position, as we have said.
A.R. Is God working at the present in particular areas?
J.T. Quite so; presently it will go into the millennium. You get frequent references, in this gospel, to the prophetic position; chapter 4: 12, for instance, "But having heard that John was delivered up, he departed into Galilee: and having left Nazareth, he went and dwelt at Capernaum, which is on the sea-side in the borders of Zabulon and Nepthalim, that that might be fulfilled which was spoken through Esaias the prophet"; that is, the Lord moved into Capernaum so that certain prophetic scriptures might be fulfilled.
F.N.W. Is there a difference in the prophetic position as it bears on our times, coming first of all from the Old Testament prophets and the Lord's ministry in the gospels, to that which was established in the ministry of the apostles?
J.T. The principles governing both are the same, I think; and they should be kept in mind. In the beginning of this present revival in Dublin, there were prolonged prophetic meetings, and I believe the whole spiritual map was opened up in those meetings; so that the brethren began to see where they were. All this bears on the present moment.
D.P. Are conditions becoming increasingly difficult? The conditions which the Lord met in this chapter seem to be increasingly difficult. He was met by demons in verse 28.
J.T. Quite so; so that we were trying to follow on in the line of our subject. We have already had the healing of Peter's wife's mother, and then the word of prophecy; "Himself took our infirmities and bore our diseases". Then it goes on, "And Jesus, seeing great crowds around him, commanded to depart to the other side". And a scribe said, "I will follow thee whithersoever
thou mayest go. And Jesus says to him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the heaven roosting-places; but the Son of man has not where he may lay his head. But another of his disciples said to him, Lord, suffer me first to go away and bury my father". Possibly he may have been waiting for his father's death, having in mind to bury him. "But Jesus said to him, Follow me". That is to say, this is now the governing principle in this prophetic place; it is a question of following the Lord. He has shown that He is worthy of being followed. And so it goes on to say, "And he went on board ship and his disciples followed him", verse 23. They are not directed to do this, but they do it, showing that they are in the principle of the position. Following Him is the principle. And then it says, "And behold, the water became very agitated on the sea, so that the ship was covered by the waves; but he slept". That is something to test us, that He should be sleeping and there should be a storm, whether we are sufficiently in faith to be sure that all is well because He is with us. "And the disciples came and awoke him, saying, Lord save: we perish. And he says to them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith?" We have seen much faith in the centurion, but here, in the disciples, we have but little faith.
But we have to proceed to this most sorrowful matter of the demons: "And there met him, when he came to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes, two possessed by demons, coming out of the tombs, exceeding dangerous, so that no one was able to pass by that way". Notice that there are two of them! which is something specially to be noticed in Matthew.
A.R. Do they represent a combination standing in the way of divine operations?
J.T. Yes. The numeral two in this gospel may represent good or bad. These two demoniacs, of course, were bad; they were "exceeding dangerous, so that no
one was able to pass by that way". Well, we have had some experience of that kind, an impassable condition. This subject runs on to the end of the chapter.
A.P.T. It would appear that demons recognise that they must, in their movements, be permitted of the Lord.
J.T. It says in verse 29: "And behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Son of God? hast thou come here before the time to torment us? Now there was, a great way off from them, a herd of many swine feeding; and the demons besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, send us away into the herd of swine. And he said to them, Go. And they, going out, departed into the herd of swine; and lo, the whole herd of swine rushed down the steep slope into the sea, and died in the waters. But they that fed them fled, and went away into the city and related everything, and what had happened as to those possessed by demons. And behold, the whole city went out to meet Jesus; and when they saw him, they begged him to go away out of their coasts". It is a most distressing incident, showing utter want of feeling. They asked the Lord to depart out of their coasts! It shows what the testimony requires; how much we have to go through, and suffer, too.
J.A.P. Did Paul contend with this same thing, in principle, in Philippi? There was a woman there who had the spirit of Python. And then, at the close of that chapter they asked him to leave the city.
J.T. The circumstances are similar; but Lydia was at Philippi, one who valued Paul, whose heart the Lord had opened to attend to the things spoken by him. The apostle and those with him went to Lydia before leaving and exhorted the brethren. Thus the testimony obtained a footing at Philippi, but evidently this was not so in the section we are dealing with.
A.A.T. Seven demons went out of Mary Magdalene,
but is not the idea of demonical possession limited today in the light of christianity?
J.T. I think it is. We have much related as to demon possession in China, for instance. Much cannot be verified but some of it is, and it indicates that there is considerable scope for demon possession. That would mean that China has not accepted the truth of christianity.
F.H.L. In view of verse 18, would you not say that Jesus had deliberately taken up this position to expose the conditions there? He commanded to depart to the other side.
J.T. Quite so; it was His own doing; but still we see what was brought out, and how solemn it is that there may be results from the work of God and yet there may be no sympathy at all with Christ and no desire for the truth. "And when they saw him, they begged him to go away out of their coasts".
W.F.K. What would you say of the testimony, "Son of God", which the demons rendered? They do not say, 'Lord', do they?
J.T. The demons knew. "The demons even believe, and tremble". They do not call him, 'Lord', as you say.
J.H.P. There seems to be more said about the opposition to the Lord than there is of the effect of His work in the two men. In another gospel it is said that the healed one was sitting clothed and in his right mind.
J.T. It is a beautiful result of the gospel. Luke pursues the subject, and he shows the one from whom the demons had gone out sitting, clothed and sensible at the feet of Jesus.
A.R. Is there correspondence to Christ's refusal here in Paul's ministry when he says that he would turn to the gentiles?
J.T. Quite so; "Lo, we turn to the nations", Acts 13:46.
Where are you looking? Are you looking at the terrible things that are happening down here on the earth? The apostle Paul says, "we look not at the things that are seen, but at the things that are not seen". Then he explains, saying, "for the things that are seen are for a time". Everything that your eye rests upon will come to an end. Everything! The things that are seen, whatever they are, are for a time. He makes no qualification. The millennium is a temporal thing. I am not detracting from it. It will be a wonderful testimony to God, showing that He can keep men alive here in flesh and blood as a testimony in spite of Satan's work. But the millennium, is limited, it is only for a time. But what is not seen, the assembly's proper place and portion, is eternal. Are you looking at that?
The day of Pentecost is the beginning of eternity for us. The more you sow to the Spirit, the more you reap what is eternal; the more you look at it the more you are prepared for it. The Spirit, through Paul, engages the heart with what is eternal, so that before we get there we are prepared for it, 2 Corinthians 4:13. In chapter 5 Paul is looking for his 'house from heaven'. If you get a 'house from heaven' you will not be a stranger when you go there; the house is for that place. Paul goes further and says, "he that has wrought us for this very thing is God, who also has given to us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore we are always confident".
I would appeal to you. I believe that we have come to a crisis. We have arrived at a place where two roads meet, the one leads straight to heaven, and the other leads into the world. It leads gradually, I admit, but it leads there, and it is for you to make up your mind which way you are going to tread. The Lord is bent
on placing us in possession of the inheritance. The daughters of Zelophehad said, "Give unto us a possession among the brethren". May God grant that that, too, be the desire of every one of us. Not a fine business, nor a status in the world, but an inheritance amongst our brethren, where Christ is the centre and the sun.
Matthew 10:1 - 42
J.T. According to chapters 8 and 9, the Lord has been doing much. We have an earlier record at the end of chapter 4, but these two chapters bear on it peculiarly, so that there is abundant evidence in them of how the Lord did things, and of the results in certain persons. Now it is thought that chapter 10 affords us instruction as to the special character of divine work as seen in the service of the apostles. They were to do greater works than He, because He would go to the Father, but the chapter indicates how the work is to be done, what is needed in the sense of strength of fibre, and what were the vicissitudes that would have to be entered upon. The closing verses bring in the idea of the reception of the ministers: "He that receives you receives me, and he that receives me receives him that sent me. He that receives a prophet in the name of a prophet, shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man, shall receive a righteous man's reward. And whosoever shall give to drink to one of these little ones a cup of cold water only, in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward".
The idea of righteousness, which has been noted in chapter 1, is very special in this book and enters into this section. Joseph, the husband of Mary, is especially noted as a righteous man. It is thought that chapter 10 will help us, especially those who serve, in the idea of being received as sent. The word sent covers the whole dispensation, even to a disciple.
J.S. Is that in keeping with the closing verses of the previous chapter, that workmen should be sent forth into the harvest?
J.T. Yes; the Lord had that in His mind. He had been working Himself, but He would associate others
with Him, and He begins with the apostles so that we might have a true thought of the character of the workmen in the dispensation. The apostles were the leaders, but the matter comes down to a righteous man, and then to giving a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple: "Verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward". So that the thought of reward enters into the whole matter, as well as the idea of being sent.
A.R. Does this chapter show that the Lord has charge of the workmen? He tells them where to go.
J.T. The Lord has charge of the workmen; there must be that idea. It is manifest in the chapter: "And having called to him his twelve disciples, he gave them power" -- or authority. The note on verse 1 says, 'More than authority; it includes the right to exercise power. Hence'power'is nearer to it in English: dunamis (power) is the ability to do a thing'.
A.N.W. As so imbued, do they become apostles in verse 2? They are disciples in verse 1, but apostles in verse 2.
J.T. I think it is all to work out the great thought of power in whatsoever way it may be shown. The apostles were pre-eminently examples of power in service, and hence the place they had at the beginning of the dispensation. It is said in Acts 2:42: "And they persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles". That is, it is a question of apostolic power and authority.
R.W.S. Would this be the Lord's answer to what the Pharisees said in chapter 9: 34? "He casts out the demons through the prince of the demons". The Lord is not retiring; He is going forward in an extended, administrative way in calling the twelve.
J.T. It says, "And the demon having been cast out, the dumb spake. And the crowds were astonished, saying, It has never been seen thus in Israel. But the Pharisees said, He casts out the demons through the
prince of the demons". There was the testimony that such power had never been seen in Israel.
R.W.S. The power is now not only to be in the Lord, but it is to be in the twelve also.
J.T. To show what the Lord had introduced, because they are to be the leaders, and the first of them mentioned is special: "first ... Peter"; so that we are to pay attention to these men and the order in which they come into the service. Each has his own place and the operations were to be in divine power, not only dynamic power, but power in the official sense; power in the sense of having authority officially. Hence, the position of the saints now is to be made clear, and I think Matthew is intended to make it clear, that it can be accredited. It can be authoritatively said that we are on the line of the Spirit of God. It might be said that we are boastful in saying that, but God intends that there are those who today have authority in a moral sense. It is not exactly in an official sense, but in a moral sense, which in a way is greater than what is merely official.
Ques. Is the position in which they received the power important? "Having called to him his twelve disciples", as though they were already available, but needing to come to Him in this distinctive way.
J.T. Quite so; and that they were His disciples. It is very precious that we belong to Him. But here they are sent out, as belonging to Him, in the capacity of apostleship.
Ques. Is not the starting point of all effective service the presence of the Lord?
J.T. Yes; and hence in this gospel we have, "And behold, I am with you all the days".
Rem. 'All the days' in that passage would entail all the vicissitudes that you have mentioned.
F.S.C. The sphere broadens out at the end of the gospel. Here it is to the lost sheep of Israel.
J.T. At the end of the gospel it says, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations", whereas in this chapter it is restricted to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. I suppose God, in His divine wisdom, selected them in order that He might have the very best quality, which is a feature of the gospel. These men were His, but they were also commissioned to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. They had the first place with Him.
E.S.W. Does the thought of the Lord of the harvest dominate the service so that every service is under the Lord's control and it is intended to secure results?
J.T. "Supplicate therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he send forth workmen unto his harvest", chapter 9: 38. That stresses the position as authoritative. The centurion in chapter 8 said to the Lord, "For I also am a man under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say to this one, Go, and he goes; and to another, Come, and he comes; and to my bondman, Do this, and he does it", chapter 8: 9. He understood that the Lord was in that position, and therefore he says, "only speak a word, and my servant shall be healed". It is remarkable that that should come out in a man like the centurion before we have the exercise of that authority in chapter 10.
F.H.L. Would there be other disciples in view in Matthew 9:37, or just the twelve? Many that went back in John 6 are called His disciples.
J.T. When we come to chapter 10 His disciples are specific. They are the twelve. I believe the Lord intends to bring out the idea of selection in service, the fibre the apostles had, and the power they had as given by Him. The whole chapter works out on those lines, but we can all come into it. It is just disciples at the end of the chapter. Giving a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple would show we can all come into the matter of service and giving.
Ques. Would it be opportune to ask about the dual character of the ministry? "He gave them power over unclean spirits, so that they should cast them out, and heal every disease and every bodily weakness". Are there two sides of ministry in that; authoritative ministry that has come down to the present time? Unclean spirits are cast out, but diseases and weaknesses are healed.
J.T. There is healing. I suppose the healing of disease and bodily weakness would mean that the persons are secured in their bodies. That idea is prominent throughout the gospels. Whatever is done is done completely. It is wholly done. When we come to the epistles we have the instruction, "If even a man be taken in some fault, ye who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of meekness", Galatians 6:1. The word restore is to set him up again so that he should function, and I think that is one of the most important things for us in regard of healings and recoveries; that the person is not only numbered amongst us as restored in body, but that he is functioning. The bodily weakness or the disease may be eliminated, but the body remains and is to function. Whether it be a brother, or a sister, each one is to function. The body involves the means whereby the work of God may work out in a functional way so that each one is doing his part.
J.S. As vessels for the testimony?
C.N. Would an example be seen in Peter's mother-in-law? As soon as the fever was removed she served them.
J.T. We have often noticed that. She serves Him. It says that in this gospel. In Luke it is different; but she serves Him in Matthew. The Lord, in healing her, had gone into the house Himself. He was not asked in.
E.S.W. Does the thought of the harvest mean that in the final result of every service there is to be something for God?
A.N.W. Does "every disease and every bodily weakness" imply that there is nothing incurable?
J.T. Evidently, even lunacy. It is the only gospel in which we find lunacy, and it is curable. It is a most encouraging thing, too.
A.B.P. Do you think the idea of the Lord of the harvest is seen in Boaz in the book of Ruth? The harvest seems to be a means to an end in view of bringing in the woman, as though the end reached is Christ and the assembly.
J.T. We certainly have both men and women here, and it is surely to work out to one end -- Christ and the assembly.
A.P.T. Peter, in referring to the Lord Jesus, says, "who went through all quarters doing good, and healing all that were under the power of the devil, because God was with him", Acts 10:38. Does that fit in with Matthew?
J.T. That is mentioned in the case of Cornelius, showing that this truth works out among the gentiles. "God was with him". And another thing there is that the Spirit of God came in and operated Himself. It is not simply that He was sent to do it. As Peter preached, the Holy Spirit fell on those who heard. The idea of falling is the same as in Luke 15 where we read of the father falling on the prodigal in fatherly care; so in Acts 10, the Gentiles were secured by the Spirit Himself. I think that is to be noted, because whilst the Spirit is here as sent, He nevertheless operates of Himself and secures persons who are hearing the word.
C.A.M. You have been stressing the matter of the body in this assembly gospel. It is to an assembly setting in Ephesians that the apostle says that He is "Saviour of the body".
J.T. That helps, because the idea of Saviour there is of the believer's body. We can count on the Lord to
save our bodies; and surely it is in view of augmenting what there may be in that sense, so that the truth should proceed in fulness, that it should not be hindered. As we were saying as to Galatians 6:1, each one is to be set up again if there be anything wrong; he is set up again so as to function in his body.
Rem. The vicissitudes of the testimony require persons who are prepared to lose their lives, according to the end of the chapter. The comforting thought of the Lord being the Saviour of the body would sustain in all that line of exercise.
J.T. I was thinking of that. There may be some question in people's minds as to what the body means in that passage, and I am sure what has been said is true. It is a question of the believer's body as needed in the present provisional setting, that every one of our bodies is needed.
F.N.W. Would you develop the distinction between the sending of the Lord Jesus and the sending of the Holy Spirit?
J.T. Well, the Lord is seen firstly as having come; "Lo, I come". He is a divine Person. Of course, the Holy Spirit is, too, but at the same time the Holy Spirit is pleased to take a relatively lower and more subjective way; as Peter says, "The Holy Spirit, sent from heaven", whereas, the Lord Jesus came of Himself, but as come as Man on earth, He is sent. And so He says, "As the Father sent me forth, I also send you", John 20:21.
F.N.W. So that according to Acts 3:20, as being Man, He might be sent from heaven. It says, "And he may send Jesus Christ". Manhood remains.
J.T. Quite so; that is what is going to happen presently. The Lord is to come, and He comes as sent: "The Lord himself, with an assembling shout, with archangel's voice and with trump of God, shall descend from heaven; and the dead in Christ shall rise first", 1 Thessalonians 4:16. As become Man, He is in a position
of acting in service, and it is a matter to be understood and looked into by all of us, that He primarily comes as a divine Person in His own right. But as come. He is in manhood, because He came that way; He came into manhood; and as come, He is in the place of service. Therefore, when He is spoken of as sent, it is not primary; it refers to when He had taken up the attitude of service. He took it up as Man.
Ques. There is no idea of the Lord's being sent prior to incarnation?
E.S.W. Is the thought of sending in relation to Christ a general thought or is it specific, in relation to particular service?
J.T. It is a question now of whether it is specific. We have already alluded to, "he may send Jesus Christ". The Lord is in the attitude of being sent.
E.S.W. If you transfer that to the sending of the disciples in this chapter, is that to be regarded as a general thought, or would that be specifically said on each particular mission.
J.T. I think the general thought must be there. "Now the names of the twelve apostles are these ... These twelve Jesus sent out when he had charged them, saying, Go not off into the way of the nations, and into a city of Samaritans enter ye not; but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". I think you can see that as sent they are peculiarly limited here because it is to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, but then they could go to any Israelite. Any one of them could go to any Israelite and carry on; that is, there is a certain latitude. Then there is the idea of the Lord Himself sending them at a particular time, as in Acts 16, when the Spirit of God forbad them going to a certain place; and then the vision to Paul, the man of Macedonia saying, "Pass over ... and help us". Paul assuredly gathered from that that the Lord had sent him. I am
only saying all that because there is the idea of what is specific, and on the other hand there is the idea of what is levitical. What is levitical may be specific or it may not be. It may be the general idea of going, as Paul said, from Jerusalem round about to Illyricum. It is a wide area but he covered it himself: "I ... have fully preached the glad tidings of the Christ". At the same time he would always remember the levitical principles entering into his services and the specific guides to do a certain thing.
E.S.W. It is helpful to get these distinctions made clear. The Levites would always hold themselves available for service and yet wait on their service.
J.T. So that you get in Scripture, "Give ye them to eat", meaning that they should do what is to be done. So the word, "Whatever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might", Ecclesiastes 9:10. There is much of that kind of thing that we should understand.
D.P.C. "He has led captivity captive, and has given gifts to men", Ephesians 4:8. Is that an extension of the general thought of service?
J.T. Well, it is. When it says He gave gifts to men, it means that He gave gifts as in Manhood. That is a very general thought, because it goes on to tell us what He gave: "some apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists and some shepherds and teachers". He gave four kinds of services. It is more general, I would say, but at the same time it is "with a view to the work of the ministry, with a view to the edifying of the body of Christ".
E.S.W. "Thou hast received gifts in Man", Psalm 68:18. I would like to understand that a little better.
J.T. It is just to bring out the position. He ascended far above all the heavens, which I apprehend is an uncreated condition of things which we never get into. We are always in creation, whatever it be, but He entered into an uncreated condition and received gifts
as Man. He gave gifts unto men, but it is really that He received them, as Man, to give.
C.H.H. The note to that verse in Psalm 68 shows that it is in connection with mankind.
Ques. Is it imperative, for the powerful function of the gifts, for the servants to be in touch with the Lord, from whom they are received? The ability to express a matter is not sufficient. To effect something in the souls of the saints would arise from a powerful link with Christ as Man.
J.T. Quite so; and so the thought that the gifts come out from Christ as in an uncreated region is wonderful, I think.
Rem. So that the power in them is irresistible.
J.T. Quite so; and really, in order to get at the truth of what we are now dealing with, we have to go back to the beginning and see how the thing worked out in the twelve. We can visualise it somewhat in looking back. These men stood up together. "Peter, standing up with the eleven", shows that the levitical position was in mind. These are the ones that are spoken of in our chapter. There they were. Peter alone spoke. They were there and the persons who were converted through the preaching of Peter understood that these eleven men were similar to Peter, and that they could be addressed. They said to Peter and the others, "What shall we do, brethren?" We cannot conceive that these men would not know just what to do without asking the Lord. The Lord would say, You know what these men need. I mean to say, we have to make allowance for what the Lord has made us. He has given us a mind and that mind is the same as His. We ought to be able to tell what we should do in many cases. So He would say, "Give ye them to eat". And so, when the time of appointing deacons came, they prayed about it, but they did the thing. They said to the people, "Look out ... men", showing
there is a great latitude given to us for carrying on the service of God, so that we should not be literal. He has given us a mind; He has given us power, as it says, He "has not given us a spirit of cowardice, but of power, and of love, and of wise discretion", 2 Timothy 1:7. Well, He has given us that and we must use it and learn how to use it as brethren and men.
C.H.H. Would that be seen in Philip going to Samaria?
J.T. I think so. He was not sent; he went; and he preached and had great results, too. He was not taken on by the Spirit of God until he had secured certain results. That is another matter.
D.P. I would like to get clear as to what is said, that the Lord was not sent into service from heaven, but as Man here.
J.T. That is true. We cannot find that He was sent from heaven. If anyone says He was sent from heaven he would have to show it from Scripture. The Holy Spirit was sent from heaven, but the Lord was sent as down here. "As the Father sent me forth, I also send you", John 20:21.
G.V.D. Does the scripture in Galatians 4:4 support what you are saying? "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son". The fulness of time does not refer to His coming from heaven, does it?
J.T. No; it was "come of woman, come under law, that he might redeem those under law, that we might receive sonship".
A.P.T. In Acts 15, Paul says, "Let us return now and visit the brethren in every city ... and see how they are getting on". He was in touch with the Lord, and he would go ahead and do the needed thing. He had the Lord's mind about it. Is that the idea?
J.T. Just so, and God was with them in what they were doing, then the brethren committed them to the grace of God, we are told.
C.N. In verse 5 of our chapter the service is limited to the house of Israel, and then verse 23 says, "Ye shall not have completed the cities of Israel until the Son of man be come". Would you say a word as to that?
J.T. I suppose it would bear on the last days. There are certain things like that in the chapter that have to be looked into at our leisure; for instance, verse 20, "For ye are not the speakers, but the Spirit of your Father which speaks in you". That contemplates the Holy Spirit here. Well, that is not the general position of the chapter, but it shows that our chapter runs into christianity, and, indeed, it goes past it, because it says, as you say, "Ye shall not have completed the cities of Israel until the Son of man be come". That refers to the coming of the Lord in a public way. That is the introduction of the millennium, of which this very book teaches. It calls it the regeneration; that looks forward to the coming of the millennial condition of things.
C.H.H. Does Peter's ministry carry the thought of the keys of the kingdom? Peter had them.
J.T. Just so. The keys of the kingdom were given to him.
J.T.Jr. This thought of a brother, as seen in the apostles, would not be held as a mere natural link and would not hinder Andrew, for instance, or John, in their service.
J.T. Quite so; that Simon or any of them should seek out his own brother that he might be blessed, is one thing, but to have part in the service on such a basis is another. Some of them here have part in the service, but still they are natural brothers. Of course we should have care for our natural brothers and get them where they can get blessing, but their natural links did not add to them in the service of God.
T.E.H. In the epistles to the Corinthians, the apostle refers to "Sosthenes the brother" and "the brother Timotheus".
J.T. They were christian brethren, real brethren, in the sense of being christians.
E.A.L. Would you say something about the section from verse 35 on? Natural relations are mentioned, but brother is not included.
J.T. The natural family is in mind. We know from Malachi that when Elijah comes, he will take up this matter. He will "turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers", chapter 4: 6. Verse 34 and what follows contemplates the conditions that the apostles had to meet in their own families; their own brothers and sisters, you might say: "Do not think that I have come to send peace upon the earth: I have not come to send peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man at variance with his father, and the daughter with her mother, and the daughter-in-law with her mother-in-law; and they of his household shall be a man's enemies". That would include his brother too: "Brother shall deliver up brother to death, and father child", verse 21. They of a man's household should be his enemies. The passage shows what we have to contend with in our natural relatives. However amiable they may be in our flesh, when it comes to the testimony they are utterly unreliable. If the Spirit of God is not working in them they are utterly unreliable in the test. That is one of the things that is outstanding in this chapter.
Ques. Is that shown in what is said of Levi in the blessing of Moses in Deuteronomy 33? He was far above the natural link. "Who said to his father and to his mother, I see him not, and he acknowledged not his brethren, and knew not his own children", verse 9. Does that show the levitical link is not to be interfered with at all by the natural link?
J.T. That is right. The allusion is, I suppose, to Moses calling for those who were on the Lord's side. The house of Levi rallied to Moses.
R.W.S. With John Mark and Barnabas it worked out in the reverse. It was a hindrance there, was it not?
J.T. John Mark went back because he was influenced by nature. He went back from the work. One of the things that is mentioned in this chapter is that we may have to suffer from natural relatives.
Ques. Does not the first verse of the next chapter show that the whole of this chapter is of a piece? "And it came to pass when Jesus had finished commanding his twelve disciples ..." Does that not cover the whole chapter? It is an indication of the vicissitudes of the testimony.
J.T. Yes. We do well to face it. I doubt whether we will ever rightly go through Matthew unless we face this chapter. This is the great fibre chapter in the book; what we have to contend with if we are to be in the testimony.
C.N. Verse 26 says, "Fear them not therefore". These terrible conditions are not to be feared.
J.T. "If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more those of his household? Fear them not therefore". It is a word we have many a time had before us here; not to be in fear of the enemy's efforts against the truth. Conditions in the world today portend a possible upheaval at any time and we are to be ready for the worst possible circumstances, and this chapter is to make us ready for them.
J.A.P. That scripture which you quoted from Timothy, that we have not been given a spirit of cowardice but of power, love and wise discretion, seems to cover this whole chapter.
A.R. It is not all platform work.
J.T. Many of us know something of the danger of making too much of that.
W.F.K. The disciples were restricted from going to
Samaria and the nations. Are there places today where the servant should not go?
J.T. There is that idea, only this chapter would hardly fit that because the restriction is to the nations. There is what we have already remarked as to levitical principles entering into the service of God, as seen in Acts 16:6, 7, where Paul is forbidden to go to certain places.
R.W.S. How do you view the instruction in verse 23?
J.T. "But when they persecute you in this city, flee to the other; for verily I say to you, Ye shall not have completed the cities of Israel until the Son of man be come". It must refer to the coming of the Lord, the pre-millennial coming of the Son of man.
R.W.S. There must then be a lot to do and not much time to do it, and before it is done the Lord comes. I thought the word would reflect on us as to energy.
E.S.W. Would you say a little as to the inquiry as to who is worthy in the city or village or house? They are to make inquiry as to who is worthy, verses 11 to 13.
J.T. "But into whatsoever city or village ye enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and there remain till ye go forth. And as ye enter into a house salute it. And if the house indeed be worthy, let your peace come upon it; but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you". I suppose it would mean that the work of God is going on generally or the testimony from heaven would never be effective at all. I believe the idea of worthiness is some quality in the person which is due to the work of God. It is not natural.
E.S.W. So that you would link yourself on with the work of God that is in the place as Paul did at Philippi?
J.T. Quite so. I believe we are safe in going to Paul to get all these things illustrated.
J.S. Verse 14 says, "Go forth out of that house or city". In verse 1 of the next chapter, it says, "he departed thence to teach and preach in their cities".
J.T. Yes; but He did not do that until He sent out these men. He had them by Him. There were none like them on earth. Under the Lord, the apostles were the great inaugurators of the dispensation as the Holy Spirit came down, and here they are made suitable in the fibre of their instruction and character generally for it. So that they were ready to go into death at any time, even wishing for martyrdom for the sake of the Lord. We need to look into our hearts and see if we have anything like that in us, ready to die for the Lord. Paul said that he was ready to die. He did not deprecate dying; he was ready for it.
Ques. Would verse 25 be a comfort? "It is sufficient for the disciple that he should become as his teacher, and the bondman as his lord". Is correspondence to Christ introduced in all these exercises?
J.T. Quite so; you have the standard in the Master, and it is sufficient for you to be like that.
Rem. So that if any sorrows are experienced, the Lord endured them first-hand Himself.
J.T. You are content to be as He is. "Come to me, all ye who labour and are burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me ... for my yoke is easy, and my burden is light", Matthew 11:28 - 30.
Rem. So that Moses, set with such an arduous task, was told by the Lord, "My presence shall go and I will give thee rest". Would that not occur to him as all the matters arose in his service?
J.T. Quite so. "My presence shall go", what a comfort that is!
A.R. Taking up the cross in verse 38 is taking up your own cross?
J.T. Yes. "And he who does not take up his cross
and follow after me is not worthy of me", verse 38. It is something of your own.
J.T.Jr. That would not hinder one in his service; it rather would help him.
J.T. That is what the apostle says: "Most gladly therefore will I rather boast in my weaknesses, that the power of the Christ may dwell upon me;" 2 Corinthians 12:9.
D.P.C. Is that what he means when he says, "Take thy share in suffering as a good soldier of Jesus Christ"?
J.T. I would say that. There is plenty of suffering. It was a question for Timothy to take his share, and this comes home to each of us. Paul says, "I fill up that which is behind of the tribulations of Christ in my flesh, for his body, which is the assembly", Colossians 1:24.
A.R. It would be like the Lord Jesus Himself; He carried His own cross.
J.T. Yes; it is a question of what you have, or what I have, what the Lord sees fit to give as a matter of suffering. Take it up and do not avoid it. The Lord says as to Paul, "I will show to him how much he must suffer for my name", Acts 9:16.
A.B.P. In that way, is pressure intended to afford opportunity for fresh assertion of purpose of heart?
J.T. Just so; especially when you think of what Christ has in the assembly; to "fill up that which is behind of the tribulations of Christ in my flesh, for his body, which is the assembly".
A.P.T. The twelve are called the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
J.T. Just so; He was the Sufferer.
Ques. Losing your life, according to verse 39, is not confined to actual martyrdom, would you say?
J.T. No; many a man might endure literal martyrdom, but he may not stand a life of suffering of another kind. The latter tests your patience. I am sure the most testing thing is extended suffering when you have to exercise patience in it.
Ques. Is that what Paul meant when he said, "Bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus"?
J.T. No doubt; "that the life also of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal flesh".
C.H.H. Would you say that not only is the Lord Jesus Christ represented in the service here, but the Father also; "the Spirit of your Father which speaks in you".
J.T. I was thinking of that; it is one of the outstanding things in the chapter, and it must run into the period of the gift of the Spirit. Most of the chapter does not allude to the time of the Spirit, but this does.
A.B.P. Is there any inference that those who serve after the assembly is taken will be indwelt?
J.T. I do not think so. The assembly has a place that no others have, and the Lord is particular about that. He is particular about the assembly; its dignity must be maintained, and it must not be brought down to the level of common things. "Let not the assembly be charged". It is a question of dignity and the Lord would put it upon us to see to it that it is not degraded.
J.S. Would that dignity be maintained in verse 40? "He that receives you receives me".
A.B.P. Verse 20, then, would show that during the present dispensation this same character of testimony is to be maintained.
J.T. Throughout, from the first minute of it to the last minute of it. It is the period of the Spirit. The Lord is concerned as to the dignity of this period, that it should not be allowed to drop down to the level of common things.
A.P.T. So the Lord says, "And whosoever shall give to drink to one of these little ones a cup of cold water only, in the name of a disciple". That is dignity is it not?READINGS IN MATTHEW'S GOSPEL (2)
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