Luke 22:7 - 46
I have a few simple thoughts which I desire to put together in connection with the Lord as viewed in three aspects. First at the passover, the second at the Supper and the third in the garden. There is a good deal for souls to reflect upon in these relations in which Christ is viewed. I wish to engage you for a moment with them, and to shew you how the believer today may be guided into the sphere where Christ is known. The Lord suggested that the passover should be prepared and be celebrated in a place that was to be discovered by certain indications. These indications given by the Lord to the disciples are illustrative of how the believer today may be guided into the sphere where Christ's interests are. In that sphere we find certain elements -- some divine, beloved friends, and some alas, the fruit of the working of the flesh.
I wish to shew you the sphere where Christ has influence. There must be a suitable place where He can celebrate the passover with His disciples. No one observant fails to recognise the exceedingly perplexing condition that prevails today. What is needed is guidance. Without guidance we are sure to miss the way or defile the spot -- the spot influenced by the Lord Jesus. There is guidance to be discerned by those with affection, those who desire to reach the spot influenced by the Lord Jesus. That there is a spot is certain, but many of the Lord's people are unacquainted with it. I wish to shew you that the Lord Jesus gives guidance, and how it is discerned. First, the man with the pitcher of water -- he is a very interesting man, if you are interested. It is not simply a man (using a pitcher of water as a figure) with the direct teaching; teaching is to have the Spirit behind it, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth. I want you to discover the Spirit's guiding.
The man with the pitcher of water is very interesting to those who have a need -- those with spiritual thirst. If you are thirsting after righteousness, that man has something for you. He is not stationary, he is in movement. You want to keep your eye on him; if you want to know where he is going, follow him, he leads you on, "There shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water". Directly you become exercised in regard to God's things, someone will meet you; one who has something for you will meet you. I am not wishing to direct you to an individual; the Holy Spirit is here, and He has taken up His abode in vessels, in men. The word is an "earthen pitcher", the Holy Spirit takes up His position in men.
Directly you are exercised, the Spirit will meet you; He is in movement. If there is anything one desires to see, it is movement. Immediately you come into touch with the activities of the Spirit, you find there is a movement in a certain direction; but the question is, do you move? You may say that was a wonderful meeting, that was wonderful ministry: but do you move? The disciples were to follow the man with the pitcher of water. He entered into a house. I shall here call attention to another feature. The goodman of the house expected Christ; keep your eye on that man. Directly you get into the house, you find the house has an owner, "Say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guest-chamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?" The goodman of the house respected and recognised the word of Christ. He understood something of teaching. The Lord says, "He shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready". If you want to reach the spot where Christ has influence you must look for the recognition of His authority. I would not place my foot where the authority of Christ is questioned. It is no place for you. Look for these marks -- the man with the pitcher of water, and the recognition by the owner of the house
of the Teacher or Master. It is a day of lawlessness in which we live. The authority of Christ is rejected. In 2 Timothy 2 we have a perfect exhortation: "Let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity". You must recognise the authority of the Lord. There is no possible hope for the preservation of the testimony apart from recognising His authority. The next thing is, the room is furnished. If anything marks the religious world, it is furniture. You find people very particular in regard to furnishing. I want to shew you that furniture is important: you do not want a choir -- an important part of furnishing in the religious world -- it is a confession of the absence of the true Singer. The Lord Jesus is the sweet Psalmist of Israel. He is the true David -- He alone leads the choir -- the spiritual choir. David placed the ark in Zion, and composed a psalm to be sung. God's house is a house of song; that you will not find in the furnishings around. There is not an atom of furniture according to God in the religious forms. Today all true furniture is divine.
I now come to another indication; the upper room. The Spirit never uses a word without a purpose. The upper room is, in a way, secluded from the earth, and divinely furnished. I cannot describe the furniture of the assembly, but it is the spot where the Lord meets with His disciples. Everything is there for the celebration of the passover. Enter! I have only indicated it to you, specially for young souls, so that they might have guidance into the circle influenced by the Lord Jesus. In that room the twelve were with Him. He says to them, "With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you". I am not saying the passover is the Supper, or the Supper the passover, I am only speaking of the Lord's desire. As you enter that circle the Lord impresses you with His desire. When the Supper was instituted -- when He gave them the cup He said, "Drink ye all of it" -- no one was to be absent.
We have Him here in relation to the passover, the Supper, and the garden. The Passover has reference to His undergoing the judgment -- being subject to God's holy judgment with regard to sin. The Supper is the Lord's affection for His people. The garden is His submission to the will of the Father. The garden is exclusively for the Father -- the question of the Lord taking a body to do the Father's will, "Not my will, but thine be done". I have indicated the distinction between these three, and now wish to dwell on the Supper.
The Supper is not a meal we partake of in regard to our bodies. It was instituted after the passover, which He tasted according to what it meant -- God's holy judgment in regard to sin. He did not eat the Supper. He broke the bread. He appropriated the passover, but at the Supper He thinks of us. The Supper is entirely for believers, not for Israel, but for the assembly. It was instituted after the passover. The Lord broke the bread -- that was His part in it, the Lord giving His body in death. He gave the Supper to us, and it remains with us. He gave it to the disciples, and afterwards it is given to the Gentiles by the apostle Paul. He leaves it with the assembly. The Lord has given His body in death; no other one could have done that. He did so, not as the passover or for the accomplishment of the Father's will, but "my body which is given for you". The Lord misses you, if you are not there. I was saying to some, the Lord has given us all the same food, and the same drink; and the object in it is, that there might be similarity. If christians are not alike, it is because they do not feed on the same food, and drink the same drink. We are all partakers of the one loaf. There is only one loaf. As it is broken, we are reminded of Christ, not as the passover, but as giving His body in death for us. You put forth your hand and partake of it, committing yourself to the communion of the saints. There is only one communion -- the christian communion.
If it is not that, it is not to be recognised. We are all partakers of the same spiritual food -- all been made to drink of the one Spirit, "Drink ye all of it". Mark gives the bright side, "they all drank of it". It would be a wonderful thing if christians were all drinking of the one Spirit -- one Spirit in unity. We are not united against our will. Drink is enjoyment -- except where the Lord drank the bitter cup. If all were to drink of the one Spirit there would be satisfaction, a common joy, unity -- no effort in it. Unity is a necessity because of the common joy. Divine thoughts are held in common, and that produces unity. Sections, nationalism and the like, are judged. We hold in common the things of God given to us. If you partake of the loaf, and your associations outside are not in accord, you are inconsistent. In 2 Corinthians we have one common object in heaven, "We all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit". There is a similarity between christians. If I meet a spiritual man here, and one at the other side of the world, there is a similarity.
I now want to dwell for a moment, on the condition that arose in the presence of all this, "Behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table" -- a solemn statement! In the presence of all this light; there, where all that love was displayed, was the hand of the betrayer. Could Satan proceed further? The table was the spot where the Lord spread out the expression of His love; moreover the one who had loved Him, denied Him. Judas is typical of the Romish system. It has betrayed Him, and cannot be trusted. Protestantism has denied Him. You may not betray Him, and yet deny Him. The denial of Christ is simply that you have another name than His before you. There were a few names in Sardis (i.e. Protestantism) that were worthy and "they shall walk with me in white". The
Lord loves an open confession of His name. There is only one Name. It is remarkable that in the beginning of Acts they spoke of it as the Name -- not another should be known. Remember how the Lord speaks of those who shall deny Him, and says "him will I also deny". Things are reversed there -- the person that denies Christ, is not worthy to be recognised in God's world. Peter denied Him, yet loved Him. There were two elements at work -- the hand of the betrayer; and Peter who gave way and denied Him. I only touch on Peter. It is of all importance that we should be faithful. If you confess Christ, all the power of God will support you. There is a power here, the power of the Spirit. Then "there was also a strife among them, which of them should be held to be the greatest". These things are all familiar to us. We are exposed to ambition, especially if we have any little bit of gift. Then the Lord said to them "The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them ... but ye shall not be so: but ... he that is chief, as he that doth serve". Among the Gentiles they exercised authority, and such are called benefactors. But you cannot patronise the christian, you may have means, gift and education, but these things are not great enough. The great one in christianity is to be a servant, "Whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth". If I am serving you tonight, it is by ministering a portion of meat to you.
The Lord puts the saints at His table, and ministers to them. That is the path for the man of gift, if after the pattern of Christ. The Lord takes a towel, pours water into a basin, girds Himself with the towel, retaining the servant's place, and wipes their feet, with the towel wherewith He was girded. If serving, you are serving those who are greater than yourself. These things are grouped together by the Spirit in connection with the passover, the Supper, and Gethsemane.
Hebrews 10:1 - 22
J.T. It occurs to me that we cannot understand christianity, until we see the kind of man Christ was as taking human form here under God's eye. We have to see this before we can understand aright what christianity is; and this passage, it seems to me, would suggest what He was. His thought in becoming Man was to do God's will, "Lo, I come to do thy will, O God", "A body hast thou prepared me"; i.e. He answered in every way to God. He, in carrying out God's will, established a title to live down here; and not only so, but having established that, He becomes the sacrifice.
A.N. God's thought in regard to man was set forth in Christ personally.
J.T. Having established a title to live, and that publicly, He is eligible, or qualified to take man's place as sacrifice. All the perfection of Christ comes out under the eye of God, in the burnt-offering; the more the light shone in, the more the perfection shone out. It is not so with us, "The word of God is quick and powerful -- is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart", Hebrews 4:12. The word of God turned in on us, discloses something very different from what was in Christ. The inner springs of Christ were all active Godward.
J.McP. You get that in the Psalms.
J.T. Yes, sometimes they rise to the full height of Christ's exercises, "Lo, I come", only the Lord could say that.
R.G. The greatness of Christ lies at the foundation of all our hopes.
J.T. Yes, and you get the order of man, which is to remain in the presence of God, so that the covenant is that by which we are formed after the will of God.
When you think of man, you must go back to the garden of Eden. The moment the Lord appeared as Man here, every thought connected with man came into evidence. The problem to be solved was -- can this Man justify God in regard to every thought of God for man? The problem was infinitely solved in Christ's walk here, so that we get Him as Man in perfection before God, in the midst of lawlessness and corruption, answering to the mind of God. That is Man according to God.
J.T. He is to God's pleasure, and effectuates the covenant, and by the covenant brings in a new race -- a race with the law written in their hearts and minds, knowing forgiveness by the Spirit, and the law of God transcribed in their hearts and minds. In the Lord's birth, you have the announcement "good pleasure in men", indicating that it was a race that God had in mind. The Lord sets it all forth in His own Person, and then removes the man that offended, and in doing so, brings in a race or order of man, according to God's pleasure. That indicates our position, so that on the one hand we have "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ..." that is, sanctification is in the death of Christ; that is the removal of the lawless man. Then it goes on in verse 15, "Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us" -- a witness in regard to God's covenant. Man is retained before God so that the covenant might be effectuated. You get the ministry of the new covenant, that is a ministry of the Spirit, a ministry which forms man after Christ.
G.N. In the old economy the sacrifice was inferior to the priest; in christianity they are equal.
J.T. The offerer and the offering are equal. Take Moses and Aaron; Moses was very much superior to Aaron, and in many respects you get that. Necessarily the priest was superior to the offering, as the latter was
a mere creature; now the offerer and the offering are equal. The Lord has brought in a new order of man -- it is very important -- He has retained man before God; then the Spirit comes in, so that there is the ministry of the new covenant.
A.N. Explain how we are formed by the new covenant ministry.
J.T. The Spirit is a witness to us; then He refers to the terms of the covenant "their sins and iniquities will I remember no more". It is what the Spirit is doing to us in principle. In christianity it is even more; it is an epistle of Christ. The saints are to be a transcript of Christ -- His letter. You delight in God's will; instead of it being a burden to you, it is a delight. An order of man is brought out like Christ.
A.N. You are in accord with the death of Christ, as regards the removal of the man.
J.T. Fellowship involves that. You put forth your hand. No one can partake of the Supper for you. It is deliberate, and what you commit yourself to is the removal of the man that sinned, "By the which will we are sanctified, through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ". You commit yourself to it, and if so, it is inconsistent to allow your own will. If you do God's will, you are a transcript of Christ, so that you fill out the rest of your time to God's will. There is great testimony in that to God. If we accept that we are here in order that God would secure His thoughts in us, pending the establishment of things publicly, then there is a testimony to the order of man that God intends to retain before Him, and that here, where sin reigns. The apostle describes it in Romans 8, "that the righteous requirement of the law should be fulfilled in us ..." That is a testimony for God, because it was what God intended in the world. He intended that Israel should walk in His will, so christianity takes the place of Israel, and the righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in us.
R.G. Force of "witness to us"?
J.T. He witnessed to us the virtue of the offering. The Spirit witnesses the significance of it.
R.G. The greatness and virtue of it?
J.McP. Christianity is built up on one offering.
A.N. We think of the ministry of the new covenant more in relation to our blessing than in regard to what it is to accomplish in the service of God.
J.T. Yes. God intended something in Adam, and that failed, and something in Israel, and that failed; "They, like Adam, have transgressed the covenant". Christ takes it up and maintains it, and that is to be continued; and nothing else will do for God. This epistle is intended to establish in the church, what is set forth in Christ in the gospels. The covenant is "I will". Hebrews is not type and antitype; it is a book of contrasts, so when the types are alluded to, it is what they were literally, not typically.
Rem. "Thy will be done on earth".
J.T. That is the principle on which the new order of man will be brought in. The disciples felt in the Lord's presence, they did not know how to pray. What constitutes a man great is the way he acts in the presence of light. If there is an accession of light, how are you to act, how are you to be affected? The disciples were properly affected, "Teach us to pray", they say. That is a right desire. So the Lord says: "When ye pray, say, Father, thy name be hallowed; thy kingdom come". Then in Matthew 6, "thy will be done as in heaven so upon the earth". It is the idea the Lord brought in. All His instruction was on that principle, that they might be established here in the will of God.
G.N. Are there conditions in connection with the new covenant?
J.T. God assumes all the responsibility. It is what God will do, "I will write", etc.
J.T. That is a large subject! You must recognise it as a principle. The moral of Romans is that you might prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. You have to prove it. It takes the whole christian course to prove it ... The first thing in regard to you and me is to set aside our wills. Instead of bringing pleasure, they cause grief every day to God ... the Lord is always unique; in every way that we correspond, there is some distinctive mark as to the Lord. The law is put into our mind, but He came with it.
R.G. It is a great victory to have a generation like that, in a scene of confusion.
J.T. That is the testimony. There is no testimony but that. That is what marks the millennial state of things, the law written in the heart; that is what will mark Israel. The church on high will be the vessel of glory, there is the shining of glory in the face of Jesus in the church. The heavens declare the glory of God; that is what the psalmist says; nothing on earth declares it. The Lord comes down and brings that principle to earth -- God's will. Everything in heaven moved in accord with God's will -- no deviation there -- that is the idea of glory. Now, the Lord brought that to earth -- brought to earth what governed heaven -- makes a complete circuit and goes back to heaven. Now, that is reflected in the church. And then Israel is formed after the law, so that God's will is done on earth as in heaven. Now the testimony is all that is set forth in a contrary scene. All in the coming age is witnessed to. You must have God's will vindicated on earth, so the thought of the will of God is recognised; then you can introduce the idea of approach, but not otherwise.
J.T. It is what is in the Lord's heart. The fact that He says, "Lo, I come" shows that the disposition is there. It is the order of man. You get two things in Romans 8, the Spirit of Christ, referring to the order of man like Christ, and who is to continue on earth; and the spirit of adoption, referring to what is in God's heart.
J.McP. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God".
J.T. The Lord as man was the glory of God here; the ministry is to make you equal to that. All that man is, is out of accord with what God is. Well, Christ is God's glory, and the ministry of the new covenant is to bring us into accord with God's standard; so "we all ... beholding ... the glory of the Lord, are changed", etc. In the 8th of Romans you get the Spirit of Christ; that is the spirit of the Man; then the spirit of adoption is the Spirit of God's Son. The Lord not only kept the law, but magnified it and made it honourable. Exodus 20 gives the law. It is the assertion of God's rights. Before you can have the tabernacle, the law must be answered to. The second thing is the sacrifice, and that depends on the will of God. Before you can have the sacrifice, you must have the law answered to.
J.McP. What is the secret of approach?
J.T. You know God; you may love God, and not have title to approach. They loved God in the Old Testament, but had not the title to approach that we have. The measure of our approach is the measure of the revelation; it is the measure of liberty accorded to you. With Christians, it is the place Christ has -- nothing short of it.
A.N. I thought it was as you were formed by the ministry of the new covenant.
J.T. Yes, that is your measure, but what God grants is another matter. On our side, it follows on the ministry of the new covenant. On His side, it is a question of sovereign pleasure -- what He wills. He is pleased to
accord us the privilege, but it does not follow that because you love God, you have title to approach, as the Old Testament saints had not the same privileges, though loving God. God determines privilege. He accords to us the privilege of entering the holiest, but we could not have it, if He did not accord it to us. He is sovereign. He discriminates; He accords to us the greatest privilege.
D.D. Referring to going in, has not the believer to be in accord with the One who is in, before he approaches?
J.T. Yes, but the title precedes that. God indicates His pleasure for us in that He has given Christ a place in heaven as Man, as Forerunner. He went in, in Acts 1, but there was a cloud, there was no indication that the disciples were to go in. "Whom the heaven must receive", Peter said, "until the times of restitution of all things". 'Repent and He will send Him back'; but when you come to Acts 7, the heavens are opened and Stephen, says "I see ... the Son of man standing on the right hand of God"; there is indicated the mind of God for christians. The heavens are opened; I read there the title, the mind of God for us at the present moment. God must determine the place of every family, "Of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named". I want to see what Christ's place is. That is our place now. We see in the early part of Acts, there is no idea of Christ being a Forerunner; He has gone into heaven, and to be concealed there, it would appear, until the times of restitution of all things; but in Acts 7, the heavens are opened through, and that is the basis of christianity. The ground is now laid, in principle, of the present dispensation.
A.N. Is there any difference in what the holiest is, to us, and what it will be by and by?
J.T. In the millennium, the veil is again recognised; they will have no title to enter.
A.N. Then this chapter has no application to Israel?
J.T. No; the covenant and sacrifice will have application to them, but the sacrifice in itself does not take you in.
J.F. What was your thought as regards the Spirit of Christ, and the Spirit of adoption?
J.T. The Spirit of Christ is the spirit of Man in testimony here, and if you have not His Spirit, you are not of Him. The Spirit of adoption is in relation to God as Father.
J.T. The thought of the covenant is the order of Man. Israel had the covenant; but we go further, we go within. Salvation will be when He comes out. In early Acts you have the cities of refuge; the Lord added to the church such as should be saved. In Hebrews the external assembly is not in itself salvation for us; you require to lay hold of the heavenly position in Hebrews, for salvation. It is insisted on in Hebrews. So it is the book of the opened heavens.
J.M. Why does it say "boldness"?
J.T. You have no timidity. It is in contrast to the tabernacle, "the way ... was not yet made manifest". It is new in contrast to the old; and "living" refers to the resurrection of Christ, and the power of the Spirit in your heart, so that in approaching God your affections are active.
J.McP. What shall we see inside the holiest?
J.T. The means by which God brings to pass universal blessing. You get into the secret of God; you see what Christ is, as Man before God. The tables within the ark suggest Christ as doing God's will. It is all a question of Christ, so that there you learn the secret of God.
R.L. "We have such an high priest".
J.T. What a thing to get into the secret of God, to see the Man by whom He effects this glorious system,
a Man who had the law in His heart! Our priesthood is determined by our relation to Christ.
G.N. We are priests by calling.
Ques. Question as to "true heart".
J.T. What a thing to have a company of people with a pure heart -- like David's mighty men. As you enter the holiest, you are in accord with it; you can lay your hand on the ark, because you are formed according to it. Your exercises are in accord with the will of God. You think only of it.
J.M. Do we enter the holiest as individuals or as a company?
J.T. In Hebrews you have not the assembly convened at all, except where it says "not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together". Hebrews shows the privileges that refer to christianity; you get light as to those, but you do not get the assembly convened; so I take it, entering the holiest is a matter of your soul's apprehension. The holiest was prominent in the wilderness.
Question as to the holiest in distinction from the sanctuary.
J.T. The latter is a sanctified place set up; but with the holiest, the idea is, there is nothing holier, hence it is the immediate presence of God. When God's thought is brought to pass, everything is in accord with the ark.
H.H. "None ought to carry the ark of God but the Levites".
J.T. We have to learn to recognise God's will. If there was one question raised in the recent difficulty, it was to recognise God's will. The ark is the means by which God brings to pass every thought of His, and when this is accomplished, all is in accord with the ark, so that His will is done on earth, as in heaven. David danced before the ark; it was his way of expressing his delight in the will of God. It is a grand thing to see the means by which God has brought to pass His thoughts;
then all is an accord with the ark, so that Christ is the centre of everything.
You know we speak of the Lord, and we ought to speak of Him, but you will never understand the ark, unless you see that it is the expression of God's will. Take a man in this city -- obscure, unseen, and desiring to do God's will, what a thing that is for God, what a delight to Him!
2 Corinthians 5:13 - 18
What is in my mind is to seek to show how we are led into the side of divine purpose. I venture to read this scripture because it sets forth the judgment arrived at by one who knew what it was to be there. I like to refer to this epistle because it shows us the spirit of christianity -- not as in Christ Himself, but the outcome of what was seen in Christ now seen in a man of like passions as ourselves -- the apostle Paul. In that way the truth is in a sense brought nearer to us. I do not deny it was brought near to man in Christ, as Elihu said to Job, "I am as thou ... my terror shall not make thee afraid". Christ drew near to man as a Man, so that the things of God and God Himself might be understood. The gospels present that to us -- what Christ was as Man, drawn near to man so that in One in low estate God might be learned. The epistles in the main show how that is effected in others. That down-stooping of the Lord was effective, so that what He was here among men was reflected in others, and particularly in Paul; so that you have in 2 Corinthians the spirit of christianity presented to you. In the first epistle the terms of the covenant are made very clear, whereas in the second epistle the spirit of the covenant is brought into evidence. Now it is in the spirit of the covenant that we are prepared to say to God; so that you will find the apostle Paul saying "we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face". It is in this spirit we have to say to God and to glory; and we are set in movement towards the land -- towards Canaan.
I desire to enlarge on these points, because you can understand it is of very great importance that we should be set to enter into the purpose of God, and, as I said, it begins with a right judgment being formed. One would question oneself and others what judgment one
has formed about things. I mean to say, what kind of judgment have you formed as the result of the gospel coming to you? If you have not come to Paul's judgment of things here it is not a bit likely that you will ever leave them. You were born into them and accept them as a matter of course. The political economy in which you have been born -- the social and commercial relations and the ordinary family relations and duties dependent upon them; all these things you accept as a matter of course. We have very little thought of them save that we are born into them and go on with them. But the thought of God is to set your heart and mind in movement in regard of all that. The gospel comes in to that end -- it is light from God to us and is intended to set our hearts and minds in movement; and if we become active in this way we begin to form a judgment about things. People who have no definite judgment are practically of no use to God. Now one cannot enlarge upon that, but here it is in the epistle; Paul says, "We thus judge". He had formed a judgment about one thing, and that was that if "one died for all, then all have died". You say, 'Well, I don't understand that, people seem to remain alive here; man moves on as he did before, no more dead than he was before the cross'. The fact is that he was as much dead before it as after it. But suppose they are alive, how many years do they live? It is only a matter of a few years and we pass away. God does not take account of things as we do. If it is a matter of forty or fifty years till the thing becomes an actual fact -- that does not set the fact aside. God speaks of things that be not as though they were. If you are to die next year you are as good as dead now. The apostle's judgment was right. He did not judge by outward appearance, but from a moral point of view. "One died for all, then all have died". It is useless to argue that men live a certain number of years -- there is no moral consideration in that. It is simply a matter of God's
forbearance, "The end of all flesh is come before me", and if they went on for a number of years, it was only in His longsuffering. God said "his days shall be a hundred and twenty years" -- God's arbitrary limit -- He fixes the period. In His own account all was gone -- the end of all flesh had come -- call it the first man or the old man -- in God's account the man is gone: "the end" He says, and He means the end. The secret of it lay in this, that another head had come in -- Noah appears in Genesis 6. His birth is recorded in Genesis 5 -- it is the second Man in principle. That is you have a man brought into the scene who is for God -- that man remains. The end of that Man has not come. He is for God's pleasure -- that man is to go forward -- his name signifies rest, and hence the other man had disappeared. If the other man is allowed to continue a hundred and twenty years, it is in the presence of the second Man, and simply in God's grace, under the headship of Noah really -- in principle, Christ as the new Head. And Noah is there in activity, as we read of Christ, "in which (Spirit) also going he preached to the spirits which are in prison, heretofore disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was preparing". And the first man is allowed a hundred and twenty years in God's grace, really under Noah's headship. In principle the new head was there from the end of Genesis 5, and God could afford to allow the condemned man to remain in order to preach to him. Wonderful grace! God is longsuffering -- "the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah". It is not a question of tolerating man, but of grace and longsuffering in order that possibly he might be saved. If God allows man to remain in this world, it is to preach to him. Noah was a preacher. The Spirit in which Christ rose from the dead is the Spirit in which He preached through Noah. But man is only given the period allotted and then the whole race disappeared.
And the whole does disappear; for if we take Noah as figurative of that race, he disappeared in the ark because he was connected with that race. The ark refers to Christ in the sense of being constituted to survive death, to go through it and survive it. Christ went under death, but He is out of it. He was a new order -- He was always that personally, but He took upon Him our place vicariously, and rose out of it. Now, we are allowed to remain here, but it is not as the ungodly; we are here as a matter of righteousness, only one's title to be here is on the ground of faith -- we have no title in ourselves. Christ established a title for us to remain here. He is the standard of our title to be here; we are taken up under a new Head; He is the One who vindicates God's name. Noah vindicated His name in that he carried through the ark, he carried through clean beasts by sevens, not by twos, but by sevens -- which clean beasts he could take and offer to the Lord; and the Lord smelled a sweet savour. So in Genesis 9 Jehovah makes a covenant, not only with the world, but with Noah and Noah's sons. They are taken account of formally by God. They were saved on the strength of Noah's faith; but now they are viewed and a covenant made with them. Now, if we are to live to God, as the apostle says here -- the Lord has established a title for us; it is a matter of judgment -- "having judged this: that one died for all, then all have died". Now, if you live, and we do live, through grace, it is to Him. Do you remember the passage in Hosea? "After two days will he revive is: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight". That is the position -- we are raised up really in the death and resurrection of Christ. That is the ground in Colossians. In Colossians 3 we are said to be raised up by faith, but faith in what? Faith in the power or operation of God who raised Him from the dead. That is the position we are regarded in there. The great point in Colossians is that Christ might have His place in the hearts of the
saints; that is the point. Now, you find the apostle insists on that in this epistle; he says, "they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again". That is the position that a right judgment leads us to if we accept the fact that we are all dead -- it is only a matter of time over the earth. Not a trace or vestige of humanity was left in sight -- all disappeared. If that man is here at all, it is in lawlessness, but if in Christ, one is here in righteousness. Christ has established a title for us to live before God; so we are here, really the only people entitled to be here -- entitled to live on this earth before God. Christians should claim the death of Christ as the title to life on this earth before God, but then it is before God -- "not ... unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again".
Well now, this passage opens up a wide and large sphere to us. Let us refer for a moment to the epistle to the Romans. I would suggest that the idea of living to another -- "to him who died for them" opens up room for the marital relationship; it is in that connection that the thought in Romans of being to Christ fits in. I connect it in my mind, in the types, with the covenant. You remember the children of Israel, after they were delivered from Egypt Jehovah referring to it afterwards -- to their original love -- says, "I remember thee, the kindness of thy youth, the love of thine espousals", etc. Israel was holiness to Jehovah and they followed after Him. The covenant, in principle, is God's proposal for a marital relationship -- God would take the part of Husband to Israel; and it has reference in that way to Romans 7. The subject could be easily opened up in the Old Testament. Romans 5 is really a question of the Red sea. The passage of the sea was the one thing in which it was said the people acted in faith, they were in earnest. Many people are baptised who have not got faith, but the point is that you should have faith about
it; and when it is a matter of light to you, when you have faith, the moral force of it is that you are baptised to Christ, and that is to His death. Now, being baptised to Christ, He has a claim over you, and the result is your body is subject to His will. I would warn young people that unless your will is broken you are useless to the testimony; your will must go. When the will is gone, the body is the Lord's and it becomes a wonderful thing. The fact is it becomes an instrument of righteousness, or rather our members become instruments of righteousness to God. It is in the hands of the Lord; that is where we become really qualified for the testimony. Old people, those who have been long on the way, in the service of the Lord and brought into subjection to Him -- whose wills are gone -- it is wonderful how the Lord takes them away -- I have often thought they are the ones who ought to stay -- but the Lord knows best. The Lord said to Peter, "When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not". The former is will -- -- "whither thou wouldest", but when old, the Lord says, "another shall gird thee". His will is broken, and he is brought into accord with the ark of the testimony. Instead of his own will, it was a question of the testimony now, "another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not". He suffered martyrdom for the testimony. I have often thought in that way, how important it is that we should begin early in subjection to Christ. It is a simple question of recognising that, as baptised to Christ, we should be subject to Christ, and you are able to be consistent with His death.
Well now, in Romans we get some light as to the Lord's body, which is in full keeping with the idea of the covenant. The Lord, as you will remember, has given the institution of the Supper, and He said, "This
is my body, which is for you", that is, the Lord devotes His body to the church. I would guard this by saying that He came from heaven saying, "Lo, I come to do thy will, O God"; primarily His body was for God's will, but then He took account of the church, and devoted His body to the church. A wonderful testimony -- "This is my body, which is for you". In Romans it is not exactly in that connection, but to show that the Lord relieved us of legal pressure by dying for us: "ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ". You can see what a service He did in His body by relieving us of that bane; but then it is, "that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God ... But now we are delivered from the law ... that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter". There you have the position of the believer, not exactly of the church; but you have light as to that which will ultimately develop into the position of the church, the principle on which the church's relation stands to Christ. Christ has moral claim over your affections. The apostle states it here as judgment "that one died for all, then all have died; and he died for all, that they who live should no longer live to themselves, but to him who died for them and has been raised". In Christ, in resurrection, you have "newness of life". You have the word "new" in Romans 6 -- "walk in newness of life", and in chapter 7 he devotes His body to free you from the old bond, and thus the link in affection is formed. I connect all that in my mind with Mount Horeb. I was saying this morning that the bride is seen coming up out of the wilderness leaning upon her Beloved. I touch on that for a moment. In the end of Romans 7 we come to the Deliverer, and you are prepared for the statement at the beginning of the chapter -- the Husband. Chapter 8 is the support of Christ. I want to dwell on that for a
moment. You remember she was said to be leaning on her Beloved in Song of Solomon -- Romans 8 presents what I take to be like the arm of Christ. In other words the bond is formed -- and now you have power by which you are supported into the land of promise. There is nothing more important than that. It is a question of what the Spirit is. Now what is the Spirit of Christ in connection with the assembly? It is the power by which He supports her into the land of promise. And in perfect keeping with the position, the brazen serpent is introduced at once; "what the law could not do" -- the apostle shows you the impotency of the law -- God did it -- He sent His own Son for sin and condemned sin in the flesh -- that which troubled you God has condemned. If God has condemned it, you need not be troubled by it any more. The power of the Spirit is there "that the righteousness" (righteous requirement) "of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit". There is great moral power in the fact that you are fulfilling every moral obligation resting upon you, and thus you set forward. I cannot go further in the chapter, but I sought to indicate that thought to you: it is really the arm of Christ in the power of the Spirit for the saints. To follow the types a little further, when they set out after the springing well -- after they recognise the Spirit -- you come to the point in the history of your soul where you recognise the Holy Spirit dwelling in you, and you make up your mind all power is in that Spirit and not in the flesh. There is no power in flesh; but more, it is habitually antagonistic to God; the biggest man in Scripture appears directly after this, and the size of his bed is given. It is remarkable that his bed should be given us; and when the Spirit records the size of a man's bed, you may depend upon it it has some special reference to the kind of man he was. I leave that to your reflection, you will find that the difficulty with most of us is just there; it is that lazy spirit that hinders
us. The fact is, a bed is a place where there is no exercise; that is the idea. Now, that man was overcome by the power of the Spirit. It is only in the power of the Spirit that that man is overcome. The Spirit of God works in us so that we might be delivered from that slothfulness. The Spirit of God goes on, too, in regard of that. You will remember how Rahab, in speaking to the spies, said 'I remember what you did to that man' -- 'We have heard', she said, 'how the Lord overthrew the Egyptians, but you overthrew Sihon and Og'. So, if you recognise the Spirit, his bed goes, a bed of iron six feet wide -- a large bed. All that disappears, the man and his bed, where there is exercise, and only in exercise are you in power to overcome and to go into the land of Canaan. What you find in Romans 8 is in every contingency arising and in every exercise, the Holy Spirit comes in and aids you in every possible way, and you see clearly that "all things work together for good to them that love God".
You see His purpose now, that we should be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brethren -- the brethren of Christ in their own sphere. Thus we enter into the inheritance. I have indicated to you a little of what the Spirit becomes to us. And now we do not know anyone after the flesh, not even Christ, had we known Him that way, all is a new order of things. Christ is in resurrection, and those who are in relationship to Him. What a change it is to us when we begin to know each other in Christ instead of in the flesh: it makes all the difference as to how you take account of a brother. The apostle Paul had such a keen sense of it that he says he did not know anyone any other way except as in Christ -- he did not know them after the flesh; there is a man with a right judgment. What christianity would be if all christians had such a judgment as that! You see people trying to connect the man in the flesh with Christ, but it is contrary to spiritual
judgment. Christ is the Man entitled to live; and if men are to be honoured at all, it is not by placing Christ in relation to them, but them in relation to Christ. Then he goes on to the complete thing, "if any one be in Christ, there is a new creation". Now, new creation strictly is connected with Canaan -- a divine sphere where all things are of God. What a sphere that is! What kind of sphere are we connected with? All things are of man from the tower of Babel to the present day, of what man has done, all things of man. God's thought in the epistle to the Corinthians was to impress them that they were God's assembly; all things should be of God, not of man. And so, when you come to "in Christ" -- to be "in Christ" is new creation -- old things have passed away, all things become new, all things of God.
I trust at least you may have followed. It is a great thing to have the divine end in view, and to form a right judgment and to keep to it, and the Lord will support you in it and you will get more light, your light will increase -- "the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day"; it increases to the full day where all is of God who has reconciled us to Himself.
J.T. I suggest that we might consider a little the object of ministry, and this chapter I think would furnish us with the subject, in the commission given to Peter, and also introducing John in his service. You will observe their service was to be based on what they were in their attachment to Christ. Attachment to Christ is the basis of service. John always emphasises love to Christ.
It is rather remarkable that there is nothing in Peter's commission here, as to his having the keys of the kingdom. The fact is overlooked entirely, for in John 21 it is not the question of order, but of feeding or shepherding individuals. It is not the assembly: in fact the assembly is not taken up by John. Service is taken up with individual love to Christ; you may have any number of individuals, but they love Christ and they love one another. That is how John puts it.
I think this chapter gives us that line of ministry; it is an appendix to the gospel. John did not finish his ministry without seeing the state of things amongst the servants. This chapter presents a very distressing state of things amongst those who served, so that we, who serve now, should never be discouraged when such conditions exist. The Lord Himself begins His interview with them by serving. He did not wait for them to bring in all the fish; He has got all things in control -- all in His own hands -- the fire, the coals and the fish were all prepared and ready. This suggests to us the infinite superiority of Christ in regard to all His servants. The chapter begins with breakdown. Peter, Thomas, Nathanael, the sons of Zebedee, and two others -- seven in all -- they all go on a fishing expedition. Peter and Thomas head the list. Peter had denied the Lord, and Thomas was absent from the first meeting after He
had risen, chapter 20. They could not give any very good account of themselves!
Ques. Where was Peter leading them to?
J.T. He was going back to his old occupation, and the Lord had already called him out of it.
Ques. Is that the reason why they caught nothing?
J.T. There were no results from their labour from Christ's point of view, and it is well for us that it was so.
Rem. There is 'Nothing', 'Night' and 'Nakedness'.
J.T. The catching nothing was a distinct indication that they had gone from the Lord. The Lord was not with them in it.
Rem. John goes on to the end, and this would be interesting when it comes to the end.
J.T. Yes, it becomes very instructive for us. This chapter is written to prevent all discouragement; in fact John's writings are to that end.
Ques. Why does the Lord tell them to cast to the right side of the ship?
J.T. That shows that He had taken account of where they had been. It is a new feature of Christ that is presented.
Rem. The great evidence of breakdown is that there is no sense of intimacy. John calls himself the son of Zebedee, not "the disciple whom Jesus loved".
J.T. Yes, he is in bad company. Peter and Thomas were really disqualified from service by their past actions. The original offence with Peter had not been settled yet.
Rem. In going back to their old calling there was no response to the Lord. They had nothing to give. Recovery is to the Lord and to the brethren.
Rem. The Lord waits until He has Peter in the presence of others before He restores him.
J.T. Yes. Peter had "wept bitterly" for his fall, but his heart had not been yet restored, and the Lord
allowed Peter to find that out. This fishing expedition gave the Lord an opportunity. Peter's conscience had been met, but his heart was not at ease, as this movement showed. He was moving without Christ, and it is remarkable he does not ask the others to go with him, they say "We also go with thee".
J.T. No, it was a party; the others discerned things were not right. It is always well to enquire who is leading. You may get those who are famed for affection like John, and yet he is away from the Lord; but then, the fact that he says "It is the Lord" shows that he knew His features.
Rem. They were not at liberty.
J.T. No. There was no exercise as to the Lord's will for them. Peter was a party leader; he goes back to his fishing on his own will, he suggests the idea and the others are quick to follow. Like the tower of Babel; one suggests to another "let us build us a city and a tower". When people get on party lines they never effect anything.
Rem. They effect nothing from a spiritual point of view.
Rem. Peter forgot what he was called to -- "I will make you fishers of men".
J.T. Yes, he forgot that, "And early morn already breaking, Jesus stood on the shore". The Lord is so active; saints suffer in not rising early. It is the only way to get out of Sodom by getting up early in the morning! You find that right through scripture; Jehovah rose up early (figuratively speaking), "Daily rising up early and sending" His prophets, Jeremiah 7:25. There is always a morning after the night, whatever the night may be, whether it be a night of faithfulness, or of distress, you always find the Lord.
Rem. "Joy cometh in the morning". It is night now.
J.T. There are six nights in the first chapter of
Genesis and seven days. The nights indicate the exercise we go through, but when we come to the seventh there is no night. It requires spiritual energy to get up early in the morning. It is the sluggard that lies in. Christ always rose early. The affections of the women at the end of this gospel are marked by spiritual energy.
Rem. This chapter brings before us the Lord's diligence to put things right.
J.T. Yes, it is very encouraging in a day like this. Christ is there and He has provided the fire, the fish and the coals; they are all ready.
Rem. We should not be content to 'catch nothing'.
J.T. If there is no prosperity you may come to the conclusion that the Lord is not with you, "When therefore they went out on the land, they see a fire of coals there, and fish laid on it, and bread". That was the Lord's provision, and then He says "Bring of the fish which ye have now caught". But He had provision all ready. It is the forethought of the Lord.
Rem. He is not dependent upon their contribution, but yet He tells them to bring theirs. He encourages them to contribute.
J.T. He had raised the question with them -- "have ye anything to eat?" That was to bring out their poverty. He had His own provision apart from their fishing.
Ques. Does it not suggest the character of ministry -- having something to eat?
J.T. You want to know what the people have in the house, "What hast thou in the house"? Elisha says to the woman. He would invite them to contribute what they had got and He would enlarge upon it; they were looking for fish and He has got it for them! Partisan work is very cold, there is nothing for the heart in it.
Ques. What was the point of recognition?
J.T. I think the word "children" would enable them to recognise Him. He says, "Children, have ye anything to eat?" and they answered "No", "That
disciple therefore whom Jesus loved says to Peter, It is the Lord". I think John was quick at discerning because he knew the Lord so well. He was more intimate with the Lord than the others. Those who know Him best, quickly discern Him. It is not the son of Zebedee now, but the disciple whom Jesus loved; affection comes again into evidence. John is on the high road again. The Lord says something and then the heart begins to burn; John saw it was the Lord and not another. It is one thing to see the Lord, and another thing to hear Him. John in his writing is full of what he saw; he had good eyesight. It is the eyes of love.
J.T. Quite so. John is the link of recognition, it is the most spiritual one that is the link of recognition. They are all recovered. Peter had a long way to go; the leader has always a long way to travel back, especially a party leader.
Rem. It was the conscience that was adjusted at the private interview, but now the affections are adjusted.
Ques. Has the shepherd got to do with adjustment?
J.T. Yes. I suppose he has. A shepherd would be qualified to attend to sheep as such. Peter says in his epistle they had now returned to the shepherd and bishop of their souls. He knew the Lord in that way. Where he would have got to if left to himself, it is hard to tell.
Ques. Would you say there is a contrast in the Lord recovering the two on the road to Emmaus, and here? Would you say that in the last chapter of Luke it is the Lord's shepherding care to recover them to the assembly, but here it is recovery to affection?
J.T. It is service that the Lord has in view here. In adjusting Peter the Lord impresses upon him what to do -- "Feed my lambs"; and that service is all based on attachment to Christ. He says to Peter the third time
"Art thou attached to me?" Peter three times uses the word "attached" as expressive of his affection, and the Lord accepts it and leaves Peter, on his own confession of attachment to Him, to shepherd His sheep.
Ques. Does the thought of adjustment come in Psalm 23, "thy rod and thy staff"?
J.T. Yes. It is there more what the shepherd is to one who is going on than to a wanderer. The Shepherd leads them in the path.
Ques. Is there any significance in the order here?
J.T. The lambs are not said to need shepherding, it is the sheep that stray -- the old ones; it is very remarkable. You notice in natural life the lambs follow the parent sheep. These sheep had gone astray and the Shepherd is going after them here. The Shepherd is always present, and we can never dispense with Him.
Rem. You require Him on the side of maintenance.
J.T. Yes, the shepherd has to keep the sheep from straying. This passage helps us to understand Peter's ministry -- the impression he received from Christ. The Lord intended an impression by getting at him three times, and then telling him what he was to do afterwards. You must minister to a brother first and then restore him. If ever they are to get restored they must be fed first. The fish is on the fire and the Lord invites them to come and dine. The Lord's service was there. That was His doing.
Rem. This is the second time Peter had left his business. The first time was in Luke 5. There he was called to be a fisher of men.
J.T. Yes, when you get things done twice in scripture the second time is permanent, "He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second", Hebrews 10:9.
Rem. The movements of Jesus are particularly interesting. He comes and takes bread and gives it to them and also the fish.
J.T. The fish is taken out of the sea, and the idea I
think is that it is universal. The Lord sat down by the sea and opened up to them the truth of the kingdom in Matthew 13. It is the universal idea.
Ques. Do you get progress in the soul of Peter in his answers to the Lord?
J.T. He had taken the ground of knowing himself better than the Lord knew him, when he said "Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended", and now he has come to the point that the Lord knows best of all, "Thou knowest".
Ques. Why was Peter grieved the third time?
J.T. It had reached his conscience. The Lord intended that it should, and He makes it clear to him.
Rem. It was really a humbling process because he had denied the Lord three times.
J.T. When Joseph was seventeen he was caring for the flock, it is very encouraging to the young; David was another example.
Rem. You would encourage all to start early.
J.T. Yes. Jesus can trust love, it is the only thing the Lord can trust. It is not merely natural affection but divine love. "If a man would give all the substance of his house for love, it would utterly be contemned", Song of Songs 8:7. The "three times" is complete testimony; nothing was covered up, it was all out. Peter is qualified now.
There is further adjustment in regard to John; one Levite has nothing to do with another. A priest has to do with all Levites. The Spirit says, "Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them", Acts 13:2. No Levite has any jurisdiction over another. A bishop and archbishop have nothing to do with one another! The Romish system of jurisdiction is built up on Peter, but the Lord here distinctly says that Peter was to have no jurisdiction over John. He says, "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?" Every Levite is needed, but to his own
Master he stands or falls. You will not find the word 'apostle' in John's gospel. Nothing official is recorded there.
Rem. "I John, your brother", Revelation 1:9.
J.T. Yes. Peter had nothing to do with John. "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me". Mark now the boldness of Peter, "Peter, turning round, sees the disciple whom Jesus loved".
Rem. Paul had no jurisdiction over Apollos.
J.T. No, but he exercised jurisdiction over Timothy, because he was his son. Peter was a man who loved Jesus; he is following now, not fishing. John is reticent, he does not call himself by name. Paul does, he says, "I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ", which signifies littleness. That is just what he was. The name Paul signifies small. Saul was the namesake of the man who was very big in his own estimation, and he started out on a mission of murder, but he was brought down by Christ for service. Saul became Paul; he became in his own eyes less than the least of all saints that he might announce the unsearchable riches of the Christ. In that way he beseeches the saints.
Ques. What is involved in "till I come"?
J.T. John in that way always distinguishes Christ and not himself. It is always the question of bringing in Christ. Administration in John is on the ground of love. "The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand". I think we have in the last verse an expression of the greatness of Christ. It is not for our curiosity as filling the world literally with books, but it is the estimate of one who loves Christ.
Ques. Would it carry the thought that He is so great it would take the universe to do it?
J.T. It is the greatest expression the finite mind can take in as to the greatness of Christ.
Rem. It is a calculation in that way; John would be very delighted to see the city after this.
J.T. Yes! You find a great many references to astronomy in John's writings, although he was a fisherman. Especially is this so in the book of Revelation; it is mysterious -- a book of mysteries -- for those who read and understand. The book of Revelation supposes a knowledge of God in His previous ways with men. So the Lord is mysterious here, and He does not stop to explain; it is left for our exercise. John was very emphatic about the testimony, how it went abroad among the brethren that this one would not die; it is remarkable how things which are not true become magnified amongst the saints.
Ques. Would you say contemplation always leads to calculation? You come to a spiritual judgment of things.
J.T. No doubt; they contemplated His glory, "a glory as of an only-begotten with a father, full of grace and truth". Then he says "of his fulness we all have received, and grace upon grace".
Rem. That was calculation was it not?
J.T. It is the glory as of an only one with a father, as if there was no other.
J.T. There are two sides. Contemplation brings about intelligent formation. You become what you look at. Then the apostle says in verse 24 he was transparent, and carried on his ministry in the activity of love.
Ques. What is the difference between the glory in the first chapter of John and the glory in the 17th chapter in regard to the contemplation of the glory?
J.T. It is a similar thought. The first has reference to Him as man here, but the 17th chapter is future. The first is past.
Rem. Contemplation precedes activity.
J.T. Yes. Both are involved in christianity.
Luke 24:33 - 40; John 20:19 - 23
We learn from this incident in Luke's gospel how the Lord adjusts us in relation to Himself and to each other. From the passage in John's gospel we see how the Lord finds a state suitable to a manifestation. One is the outcome of the other. In John the disciples were not flustered and frightened but rejoiced at His presence. In Luke their faith is hindered through joy, they did not believe for joy; fear and joy alike hindered. Both narratives refer to the same time, but are presented from different standpoints. Luke presents things from the side of the priesthood, that is, he takes account of our need and meets it. His record is in order that we should be helped, and follows on the well-known incident of Emmaus; the two at Emmaus represent a state of soul in which Christ had not His place. The distance they had in their minds to go is measured; there are those who make up their minds as to the distance they are prepared to go and set out to cover the distance. The narrative of Emmaus shows how souls may take up a place of distance from Christ; they may attend the meetings, but there may be a feeling that the best times are gone. It is a doleful tale! Every one who goes to Emmaus is doleful! The best day is the present day; in fact there is no better from the divine side because it is the Spirit's day. A good illustration of a people at a distance is found in the two and a half tribes; they knew the distance they would have to live from God's habitation. Recovery is by a manifestation of Christ. The Lord knows the distance at which each one is from Him; He knows how far or how near one may be. He takes the place of Head in the house at Emmaus. This was to be the great feature of the new order of things, for if the headship of Christ is not recognised, one is
out of the enjoyment of it altogether. Immediately after the manifestation He vanished, and they rose that same hour and returned to Jerusalem. Christ's headship is only rightly known in its own sphere, for He is Son over the house; He did not actually tell them to go to Jerusalem. There was a spiritual foundation in those two which is assumed by the Lord's course towards them.
Whatever the distance at which we may be from Him, the Lord knows it. Peter is an example. Although there had been several manifestations to him he was not restored until the Lord had probed him three times, see John 21. Why do we choose to remain at a distance? Often it is because of our love for our homes and our families, which really is what marked the two and a half tribes. The Supper is intended to keep us near Him, and it has a voice to us if we are at a distance. These disciples returned to Jerusalem and found the eleven and those with them; Christ Himself had appointed the eleven, and so they represented His authority. No one is really recovered unless he is prepared to accept the authority of Christ. The Lord selects His own way of manifesting Himself; He manifests Himself three times (John 20 and 21), each different from the others; so it becomes a question how He may do it to you. After the manifestation at Emmaus He disappeared and left them now to act, and they returned that same hour of the night; they had seen the Lord risen and alive and that moves them. If you get light you convey what has impressed you. Verse 35 was what impressed them so they got what the Lord intended for them. It was not the unfolding of scripture, the point is to have a contribution, they could give an account of what impressed them.
At Emmaus it is a household scene, the Lord takes the house-father's place; they were to get the good of this elsewhere -- at Jerusalem. They became contributors
at once -- they related what occurred on the way. It suggests how things are to be, the breaking of bread was to have a great place. A contribution is not necessarily a knowledge of scripture. The assembly is marked by contributions from those who have had manifestations; Mary had a manifestation and a message. The two at Emmaus were not qualified to receive a message. Our homes damage most of us -- that is, they occupy the first place. The word to Abraham was "Get thee out ... from thy father's house". Our ancestry and position come into our minds as we turn towards our houses. Our faces need to be towards the assembly; we should always have a sense of our relation towards Christ and the saints. "As they were saying these things, he himself stood in their midst". They were suited to a visitation but they were not adjusted. We may be suited to a point, but we need to be wholly adjusted. It says "they were terrified". We should seek to be in the condition for manifestation. This flows from a knowledge of the Lord. His hands and His feet are the evidence of His death. The feet show the journey He has taken in order to reach us, whereas in John it is a question of His love -- His hands and His side. In Luke we see more the service side, it was a real Man who had taken this journey. He then proceeds to eat a piece of a broiled fish, etc. Here we see a real Man. In John He is the Last Adam: and His side has reference no doubt to the fact that Eve came out of Adam's side.
In John's gospel the Father is more in view. Luke begins with a priestly family. Most of us are defective as regards the priestly state. Luke shows how the Lord left a priestly family behind Him on earth, Luke 24:53. In Matthew they were to meet at Galilee, that is in relation to the Gentiles; that gospel was written with a view to the setting aside of the Jewish system. In Mark we are shown how the apostles were to carry on the new service with guidance and support from heaven, not
from Jerusalem. In Luke we have adjustment as to the discerning of the Lord when He manifests Himself.
On the mount of transfiguration Peter "wist not what to say", Mark 9:6. It is a reproach. Silence is painful when it is the result of slothfulness and spiritual dumbness. There is a silence of power and a silence of weakness. We need to be more evenly balanced. In spite of "such things have befallen me", Leviticus 10:19, it is the mark of the priest to be evenly balanced. The sympathy of Christ maintains you in mellowness. There is no excuse for fleshly activity in the sanctuary. The priests were not even to mourn for their relatives (Leviticus 10) -- sanctuary requirements were so stringent. The chapter says they were not to drink strong drink and is intended to regulate the priests in their service. The claims of the flesh must not influence us. Priesthood belongs really to the mediatorial system. It is necessary now for the state, and the circumstances, in which we are. The priest is also a son, so that his service is founded on the love peculiar to that relationship. All service in the assembly must be of that character. No Levite knew what to do without the guidance of the priest.
In John 20 the assembly is presented as normal. It is what the Lord is to us and what we are, and so on a higher level. Mary's message had produced a certain suitability. They were His brethren. His mind was the same for them in Luke but they were afraid; here it was the Jews they were afraid of -- a very wholesome fear to have. Verse 19 emphasises the thought of disciples, not necessarily the eleven. Therefore it is not their official place. He came to where the disciples were. John puts it "having seen the Lord" -- they saw Him. The peace He gives them is His own peace. A state of peace is so important. A troubled heart is detrimental to the enjoyment of the Lord's presence. Thomas was absent; he is a type of the Jew, and also alas, many others at the present time! This made him more difficult of
adjustment. Absentees are apt to be infidel. The Supper is the gathering centre. In John they were sent out in the spirit of the heavenly Man. He breathes into them, showing the character of the testimony: "as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you". Here it is how they are sent out. What they do is final. It is for disciples simply, and shows the exalted position of the saints. It is the spirit and dignity in which they go out.
Hosea 6:1 - 3; Isaiah 38:9 - 20
Restoration is in view. We find in meeting the responsibility of the church a want of energy, energy of affection that there might be a response. Two days refer to the period of the Lord's ministry, the third day is resurrection. Pentecost corresponds morally. They were on resurrection ground. They were living in His sight, many try to live out of His sight. One should be exercised that the response of his heart is ever God-ward; God looks for energy of life. In Romans 6 we reckon ourselves among the living. God has torn and only He can heal. He may use certain instrumentalities to humble us, but only He can heal us. The knowledge of God in a soul is the only thing that can save us at such a time. David bowed under the hand of God. Whether He binds up or tears, it is to one end, that the living might praise Him. Discipline is to the end that we might come to the house of the Lord as worshippers. The effect of Christ's ministry before His death was revival but not life; the third day is life; we are quickened in our affections that we may live before God. God is our refuge and resource. If He has done it, it is that He might have us before Him in life, that we might have power, not only to live here, but to respond to God's love. Romans shows us how our state is met consistently with God's righteousness. Colossians is the third day, resurrection, we are raised by faith, quickened together, living in God's sight, you are conscious of it.
We should be more concerned about what God sees than what the brethren see. In Mark 11:11 the Lord came into the temple, and looked around; He inspects. He came into the temple, but He did not stay there. He went out to Bethany. He surveys all christendom, but He does not stay there. In Mark 3 he looked around on His brethren. He sees christians wherever they are, but
He stayed in the circle. They would have Him come outside, but He answered them saying "Who is my mother, or my brethren? And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother". It was God's will for them at that time to sit around Him and hear Him! He is always 'looking around'. He has a right to it, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten". A true christian may be so thoroughly asleep that he is no different from the dead. "Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light", "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord", Hosea 6:3. Paul's doctrine would lead one on to know the Lord. Rain is ministry, refreshment. Christian blessedness lies in two things -- the knowledge of God and the knowledge of ourselves.
Isaiah 38 is "What shall I say? he hath both spoken unto me, and himself hath done it: I shall go softly all my years in the bitterness of my soul". Bitterness of soul is Marah, self-judgment, remembering what the flesh is, it is a bitter thing. "O Lord, by these things men live, and in all these things is the life of my spirit"; his discipline was not for wrong-doing, but to bring about life. We must be living to answer to a living God. He is thinking of God, and says, "For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee". God would get no praise from the grave, but "The living, the living, he shall praise thee". God's discipline was to the end that He might be praised by the living -- "One thing have I desired of the Lord, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the Lord, and to enquire in his temple", Psalm 27:4. It is not enough to desire, one must resolve; resolution is stronger than desire. One may know what it is to go on in communion with the Lord but lose
it; in such a case one may be "torn" of the Lord and left for awhile.
Isaiah 38:20 -- The house of the Lord is a moral thought, "Holiness becometh thine house, O Lord, for ever". The house of God is the circle of the saints recognizing what is according to God. Singing on the stringed instruments would be in the meeting -- He touches the hearts of the saints and there is vibration. The father shall make known the truth to the children like Paul to Timothy. Faithful men like Hezekiah reached a higher plane than Job or Jacob. He sang to the stringed instruments in the house of the Lord. You look for freshness every time you come to the meeting. The Lord touches the stringed instruments. We want to be available to the Lord -- that should be our exercise.
Ezra 9:1 - 10; Hebrews 10:19 - 22; Hebrews 13:10 - 16
I wish to say a word about priesthood, particularly the instincts that mark it, and the clothing, and to show also the sphere in which it is exercised. The instincts of priesthood are of great importance, for without them we either ignore what is of God or act clumsily in regard of it. When Jacob had the great privilege opened up to him of being in the house of God "he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place"! indicating that he was wanting in priestly instincts and sympathies, not to say priestly clothes, he was certainly wanting in them. Now David, referring afterwards to the ark said "we heard of it at Ephratah: we found it in the fields of the wood" and called upon Jehovah to arise and enter into His rest, He and the ark of His strength. He had priestly instincts, for under David the priesthood was subordinated to the king; the priest was to walk before Jehovah's anointed, that is, the king had the first place; but then, happily, David was truly a priest; he was a priest in the principle to his instincts and desires; so he neglected his natural comforts, that is one mark of priesthood, and another is that one neglects one's natural relations. Levi said to his father and his mother "I have not seen him", he was true to God and so God gave unto him His covenant of peace, "My covenant was with him of life and peace". Levi was true when Israel proved deceitful. Levi stood by Moses and maintained things for God. And so David had priestly instincts; in fact we are told that he was clothed with the linen ephod and danced before the ark of the Lord, a remarkable exhibition of, not only priestly instincts, but priestly delights; the ark was everything to him, and so He says, "Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy". These were the desires
of David, and so God answers him. I mention this, because it is encouraging when we have right desires. God answers David immediately and says, "I will also clothe her priests with salvation". Now, righteousness in us necessarily precedes salvation. You must have on the robe of righteousness before you can have the robe of salvation. It is of great importance that we should understand what such clothes as that are, that as we have to say to God and His things we are righteous in all our relations, and, on the other hand, we are free from all earthly influences, we are saved.
Now, I brought those points forward so that you might see how priestly instincts develop and how God answers them, and so I take it that the letter to the Hebrews is that of a priest. Throughout the letter he is concerned as regards what is due to God. He begins by the divine speaking: "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son". That is the language of a priest, "For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and at his mouth they seek the law". He does not profess to be that, there is no official assumption in the letter; Christ is said to be the Apostle and High Priest; nevertheless, the whole letter is stamped with priestly instincts and desires, so that he takes up the ark, as one may say, in the first chapter, and speaks of Christ in the most touching and yet the most reverential way; he brings forward what Christ is personally, that is the first thing with a priest, Christ must be considered first, His dignity, His glory. Then he proceeds, in the second chapter, to bring in Christ in relation to us, for he is really laying the basis for priestly exercise and service in the saints, so he brings in Christ in relation to man and says "For both he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one". That is the priestly family. It is wonderful, dear brethren, that God is pleased so to regard us. If you recall the genealogy in
Exodus 6, when the Spirit of God arrives at Levi, He stops. There is no further genealogy given there; that is to say, He has arrived at the priestly family, and then He finally brings in "this is that Moses and Aaron". If you have the priestly family, then you have the service of God secured, and that is the first thing with God -- "that he may minister unto me in the priest's office".
Now, I need not say that priesthood in us is not a development. It would be a very great mistake if we were to assume that. Priesthood is a calling, a priest is one who belongs to the family of priests. I was endeavouring to point out this morning how in Luke the atmosphere of heaven is brought down here. Directly the Babe is born there is a ministry of the angels to the shepherds, announcing glad tidings of great joy, and then presently there was a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God. It was priestly. And then, following upon that, you find Simeon coming into the temple by the Spirit. That is a priest. So that Luke brings in, in that way, the priestly family; and the Lord, in the last chapter is seen ascending into heaven in the attitude of the High Priest; He lifts up His hands and blesses His people and "as he was blessing them, he ... was carried up into heaven", and the blessed ones, returning to Jerusalem, enter into the temple of God and are found there praising and blessing God. So the priestly family is brought to light.
Now in Peter we have the formal statement that we are "a holy priesthood". It is not that you should be that. I would call attention to that, dear brethren, because, although, no doubt, most here know that, we should be clear about it, that it is not a question of development; it is that I belong to the family, and I cannot make myself a member of the family. Jesus has done it; as the scriptures say, "Unto him that ... hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father". That belongs to every believer, and I would seek to
dwell upon it at this time. I wanted to show how in Ezra the things that I have been speaking of came into evidence. He is very careful to tell us at the outset (chapter 7) that he belonged to the family of Aaron. I might say in passing that Ezra makes a great deal of genealogy. I have no doubt that it was he who wrote the Books of the Chronicles, and so in the last days of the dispensation of the church the book of Ezra fits in, because the point is that each of us should shew his genealogy. Am I a priest or not? I may claim it, but I have to prove it. And so Ezra is very careful to prove his genealogy, and having proved it he tells us that he "prepared his heart to seek the law of the Lord". That is what is proper to a priest. If you claim priesthood, then prove it, prove your genealogy. You may ask me, How? By nature I must bring forward in my manner and spirit the traits of the priest; and so Ezra, in unmistakable language, says that he set his heart to seek the law of his God, and seeking it, he became a "ready scribe" in it. We must not deprecate writing. Writing has a great place in scripture. Now the Lord Jesus Christ is really that, if you understand me. It is He who writes, and I believe that His writing on the christian proves the christian's genealogy. The apostle John speaks of the things that the Lord Jesus did. He says, I have been writing to show seven signs, and he hung up on these seven signs a tablet, which we may read and run: "these are written that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life in his name". That is what he wrote them for; he did not write in any exhaustive way, he wants us to understand. Not a scriptural writer writes exhaustively: holy men of old were moved by the Holy Spirit and they wrote what they were moved to write, but no scriptural writer attempts to be exhaustive. John says formally, I have made no attempt to be exhaustive. I have simply written these things for you, but if all the other things were written,
he says, "I suppose that not even the world itself would contain the books written". So that if anybody wants to write christianity exhaustively he has a very big order. But the Lord Jesus can do it, and I believe that everything will find an answer in some way so that things will be written, nothing will be lost. In John's gospel we are told that the fragments are all to be gathered up so that nothing is to be lost. Ezra was a ready scribe, he wrote the law of God, and I have no doubt that one finds touches, as I said, throughout the Books of Chronicles: he makes a great deal of David, they are written from the standpoint of the house of David and I have no doubt that in the last days of the church the Holy Spirit would work so that Christ should be supreme -- as I have remarked on a previous occasion -- the Headstone. Zerubbabel lays the foundation, but he puts up the Headstone also and they shout, "Grace, grace unto it". It is Christ in the affections of the saints.
Well now, Ezra heard that the people of God were contracting unholy alliances. That, alas! is a practice that is very prevalent today among the people of God. As we maintain distance from God in our souls it is inevitable that we should contract unholy alliances, and Ezra, with true priestly instinct, humbles himself about it. One would love to see that now, that the Holy Spirit would bring about a sense that the alliances which many of the people of God have formed are unholy. The priest notices it, because he considers for God, and so Ezra sat down overwhelmed and rent his mantle and his garment and plucked off the hair of his head -- remarkable exercise; and now at the evening oblation he arose. That is, as he apprehends Christ as He is before God, he has confidence. He has confidence in God. And we have every reason to have confidence at the present time, for what Christ was at the beginning He is now, not only us-ward, but God-ward. He stands before God in all the efficacy of His work, and the
fragrance and worth is there in the presence of God. We may have every encouragement to turn to God. I wonder if we are accustomed to that? I am endeavouring to bring before you the great importance of taking up your priestly responsibilities and your priestly privileges, and approaching God in prayer on account of the conditions that exist in the assembly; one is assured on account of the unchangeable efficacy of the sacrifice of Christ in the presence of God. Priesthood is thus assured before God. And then he confesses his sins and the sins of the nation, and he goes on to say of Jehovah, "to give us a nail in his holy place" and then further, "and to give us a wall in Judah and in Jerusalem". These are the two points. God has given these to us, I am assured, at the present time, and I read the passage in Hebrews 10 so that we might see the bearing of the nail. I have no doubt the nail is typically the Lord Jesus Christ. Have you assurance in your soul as to having a fixed place there? The psalmist says "When shall I come and appear before God?" His soul thirsted for God: for the living God; but then he was far away. How many there are like that! And then in a later psalm it is said: "They go from strength to strength: each one will appear before God in Zion". It is a question of God's purpose. Zion is always that. God has His own fixed place in which He is to be approached, let us remember that. One rests in that, that one has come to Hebrews 10, it is not simply that you are called to it, the point is to come to it. Hence he brings forward that which is requisite for it first, saying "Having therefore, brethren, boldness for entering into the holy of holies ... and having a great priest over the house of God". We do not acquire either of these things, they are supplied. We want to see that in christianity it is a time of supply from the divine side. He has accorded to us boldness of access, by the blood of Jesus, to the holiest of all; and then, on the other
hand, He has accorded to us a great Priest over His house. How wonderful for the soul that God has opened up to me a way, He has accorded to me boldness of access. Christendom has gone back to the old way, ceremonies and rites, whereas the new way is living; the ground of it is the blood of Jesus, but then it is living, which I apprehend involves that I have the Spirit. I approach in the energy of the Spirit and then I have a great Priest over the house of God. Things in Hebrews are new and great; we have a 'great salvation', we have a 'great Priest' not only a High Priest, there were many high priests that were not great priests. A great Priest has affection and sympathy, but He has power, so that the house being under His influence -- for it is that -- and under His supervision and control, and His ordering, the soul has perfect liberty. I do not know of anything so blessed as to come to know the influence of Christ in the house of God. In the next statement he does not speak of what we have accorded to us, but what we must bring: "with a true heart, in full assurance of faith, sprinkled as to our hearts from a wicked conscience, and washed as to our body with pure water". Having these things, let us draw near, and so we come to the realization of what Ezra speaks of, we have a nail in the holy place. We have an abiding place in the holiest of all in that sense -- a sure footing there, for Christ is there. The nearer you get to God, the more sensitive you become of your acceptance. I repeat that. The nearer you draw to God the more conscious you are of the delight He has in you in Christ. The further you are away, the more the enemy has the advantage, for you are not conscious in the same way of the divine love and interest in you. The nearer you are to God, the more sensitive you are of the fixed abode, that is, the nail. The 'nail' in Isaiah is said to be in a 'sure place', but the nail here is in the sanctuary.
Well now, the wall in Judah and Jerusalem is another
matter. The wall is for protection. So that the nail in the holy place is God's portion -- my relation with God, and the wall is the protection that I find in the fellowship of the people of God. I have great encouragement to speak to young christians about fellowship, because fellowship is becoming the dominant feature of the world now, leagues and bonds binding the people of the world together, and one trembles for the young especially. I would call your attention to this, that God has given to us a wall and it is given to us in Jerusalem; that is to say, fellowship is in connection with God's purpose, it is connected with government. No individual government, no independency can set it up; it is the fellowship of God's Son, it is the fellowship of the apostles; the fellowship of His death; it is fellowship one with another. If you do not love the brethren you do not value that last statement. Fellowship with one another appeals to my heart if I love the brethren, and so in chapter 13 it is the public position. "We have an altar". That is the "we" of mutuality. It is an exclusive altar. We have an altar whereat they who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat. God in that way issues a warning to all who ally themselves with ceremonial religion, with a revival of the tabernacle system, that they are shut out from the exclusive altar of christians. It is a solemn thing to be allied with that which is a revival of the old tabernacle system, that is, a ceremonial system. We should not be afraid of that word exclusive, because it is quite scriptural. The Lord acted upon it in the gospels: He selected three men to take them up the mount of transfiguration. He left out the other nine. He selected them in His own sovereign right and He excluded others. So the altar which christians have is an exclusive altar; it is exclusive of all that is of the flesh, and then it is exclusive of those who are affiliated with the tabernacle system, human religion, set up in ceremonialism. If there is one here who is serving that, I would call your
attention to this, that you have no right to eat. If you are a christian, you are a priest, and you should be exercised about the true altar of God and about the true sanctuary of God; that altar is available to you on the principle of separation and only on that principle, for separation from evil is God's principle. "Therefore let us go forth to him without the camp, bearing his reproach". It is public. I have often said that the Lord went to heaven in private, but He went out of the world in public; and baptism, the fellowship of His table, of His death, are public, so that His reproach is connected with your baptism, and His reproach is connected with your fellowship: we might as well accept that. Now it is not that you have to, but rather that you do: "bearing", you accept it as a privilege. If in the government of God I am placed in circumstances where reproach comes upon me, it is privilege, "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake". Suffering I apprehend to be the purple of the tabernacle. Purple is a royal colour, but it is a royal colour in suffering. Those that suffer reign. Hence it is an immense advantage to suffer, for the reigning is commensurate with the suffering. So it says, "without the gate" of the city. That is public -- terrible to the flesh! There was a man "coming out of the country" when Jesus went out at the gate. The two that went on their way to Emmaus were 'going into the country', that was the wrong course, beloved friends. The time now was to be marked by going into the city, the city being a principle. The man was "coming out of the country" and he had the honour of bearing the cross of Christ. It was a marvellous privilege, in a way, unsought for, perhaps, but it was accorded to him "coming out of the country". According to Mark's record the two were going into the country (chapter 16, verse 12) without saying to what part, suggesting that they were going away from the divine centre, "Let us go forth
therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach". I suppose it is like the man who came up out of the country bearing the cross of Christ, so now we take up the privilege of bearing the reproach of Christ publicly, pending the time when He appears. Alongside of that we have the exclusive altar. Let us emphasize our exclusiveness. I was speaking last night of the rights of christians: the altar of God belongs to us. Let us glory in it, "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name".
If we have an altar, and if we eat at it, it is obvious that sacrifice has to be made, and the sacrifice is such as Peter calls a priestly sacrifice, a sacrifice of praise, spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. So that in that way we come into the public service of God and we are found answering to the gospel of Luke. The gospel of Luke is the gospel of joy, joy that is brought in from heaven, and this epistle shows us the saints offering to God the fruit of their lips, giving thanks to His name.
May God help us. I would especially commend to you the two points that I have named from Ezra, that is, that we have a nail in the holy place, that means a sure footing; and then on the other hand we have a wall and our fellowship is protection. It is a remarkable thing that in Ezra they build the altar to protect themselves. If you read the third chapter you will find that is the first thing they build "for fear ... of the people of those countries", and the altar being set up. God defends it. You may depend upon it that where God's rights are owned He will protect you.
Hebrews 12:22 to end
J.T. I thought it would be helpful to us to get the light of the things we have come to, especially as an element of support in view of "the race that is set before us" as it says. The apostle, the writer, says in the tenth chapter that the saints to whom he wrote had "need of patience", and he cites the prophet Habakkuk to show what there was to look forward to -- the coming of the Lord, and then continues to cite the passage in regard of faith "the just shall live by faith". Habakkuk said that the vision had in view that the reader should run. The apostle introduces the varied examples of faith and sets them down as a cloud of witnesses for us, that we might "run with patience the race that is set before us" and he then brings in the discipline of God as a means of clearing our vision, so that we might see clearly. I mention these things that lead up to the subject of the epistle, because it is an element of support to us, in the race, that we should have clearly before us what we shall come to literally, but what we have come to now as a faith system, and as having come to these things, to find out what they really are -- what each element is, for our present enjoyment.
D.L.H. In Hebrews, one very great point is to shew that these poor believers in Christ from among the Jews had really got the very things, in a spiritual way, which had been held out as promises to the people in connection with the land; they had it all spiritually.
J.T. And is it not a question of their having come to the things in their souls? The point is that they should come to the things.
D.L.H. That is so; they were all there.
J.T. They were all there, and these are the things that are involved in the position that we have taken up
as believers. A person might be very illiterate, but as becoming a citizen of the United Kingdom he has come to all the things that are in the Kingdom in the way of privileges and advantages.
D.L.H. Then the Spirit of God sets these things forth -- the advantages, as it were.
A.M.H. Would you say that you have come to a system of support and encouragement in contrast to one of demand and fear -- is that the thought?
Ques. Is that why Mount Zion is put in the forefront?
J.T. I think it is; it is the constitution of the system, so to speak, the underlying principle, that is, that all is dependent on what God is -- His sovereign mercy.
D.L.H. All based, I suppose, upon resurrection?
J.T. Resurrection is, I suppose, the great evidence of God's intervention, but it has a delivering effect in the soul, because whatever one is one owes to God's sovereign mercy, not to anything hereditary or acquired. Whatever one is, whatever one has, it is all the outcome of God's sovereign mercy.
J.H.J. Why do you think we get all these things in the 12th chapter and not earlier in the epistle?
J.T. I think there is development in the teaching of the epistle. The epistle is intended to lead our souls on to solid ground, and I think all these elements have a delivering effect; they deliver us from all that may attach to us and all that we might boast in outwardly, and set us on solid spiritual ground. It is not only that God will do the thing, but He has done it; Mount Zion involves that He has done it and that He rests in what He has accomplished -- God dwells there.
J.M. Is Mount Zion the fruit of the place that Christ now occupies before God -- is that how He has done it?
J.T. Yes, it is what is to be seen, not only Christ risen, but the position He occupies, "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion", it is what God has done. Men may complain and resist and band themselves together against it, but it is done.
D.L.H. I suppose Psalm 78 really sets forth the thought of Mount Zion in a very powerful way.
J.T. That is what I thought, it was when everything was lost "Then the Lord awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine. And he smote his enemies ... he put them to a perpetual reproach", all that referring to the death and resurrection of Christ.
D.L.H. Evidently. Then He chose.
J.T. He chose, and He built, and all that is what God did. One feels the importance of that, because things are so shaky; it is intended that things should shake under our feet, so that we might turn to what is unshakeable.
Ques. None of these things is visible: is that in contrast to what was visible in the holy land?
J.T. They are not to be touched -- not material things for the moment: not that they do not take material form, because they will; all these things will be livingly existent in the future, coordinated, and we shall have our part in them, but it is a question of what each individual christian can take account of as having come to himself so that he may explore.
Ques. All these things establish our faith?
J.T. They are intended to strengthen us in the race; we are not treading an uncertain step, we know what we are about, we know what we have before us; and the point is that they are educational in the soul now, and one of the most important elements of my education is that I should see that anything that I am worth speaking about (as Paul says, "by the grace of God I am what I am", and the christian is something) is through the sovereign mercy of God.
A.M.H. That would have a very delivering effect in oneself, because it is humbling, is it not?
J.H.J. You commence, do you not, with looking off unto Jesus, then you get the light of this wonderful system opened up, really the world to come?
J.T. Well, the first thing is the constitution, that is, the general principle underlying christianity, and underlying the whole purpose of God in the future is that He has effected it. He has done it.
A.M.H. Do you connect three things with Mount Zion, sovereignty, stability and mercy?
J.T. Sovereignty, mercy and stability; but you have more than that. When you come to what is stable you have added the thought, "... he built His sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever", that is, the thing is not only abstract, it is concrete, and what God builds is built for ever, the building is firm. I suppose one of the most interesting studies in a way is the reference to faith apprehending that the worlds were framed by the word of God. "He spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast". The firmness, the stability, lies in the will of God; it must be so. But then there is not only stability, there is structure, there is formation and ornamentation, order and beauty; that is the outcome of His word, the expression of His mind, and faith takes all in; so that even as to the material system faith apprehends that it is the word of God that has framed it; whatever there is in the way of ornamentation and regularity, balance and so forth, it is the word of God. And so in regard to the spiritual structure, it is on the same principle. Hence the next thing you get here is the city of the living God -- a wonderful theme for the soul!
D.L.H. Light, order and administration, all found in connection with God's city.
J.T. Quite so, and the thing is replete with life, that is, it is the city of the living God, and heavenly Jerusalem. It takes very little to alter a city that man has built -- the city of Berlin, what a change there is there! God can alter things here so very quickly, whatever glory there is goes very quickly, but in the city of the living God there is no possibility of change or decay, it is replete with life.
Ques. I suppose you see it at the end of Revelation with much more detail.
J.T. That is an expansion of this, but it is all here.
D.L.H. I have often wondered in my own mind how it is exactly that God takes up the thought of a city; it is very remarkable, because the idea of a city first occurs in connection with man -- with Cain, and the first mention of the city comes in that association, which is not at all a good one: contrariwise, it is connected with man's will, trying to make an ordered place of pleasure and amusement and satisfaction for himself here. Well, God takes up that thought; now what do you think about that?
J.T. I suppose it is for deliverance, because the thought of the city has a very great place in man's mind.
J.T. You see it with Lot, he clung to Sodom and, finding that he could not stay, he would bargain for a little city; illustrative of how the natural man clings to an ordered state of things in that way. But it says, God has prepared for them a city, a better country. God anticipated the thing; it is a political idea, that which man seeks. God prepares a city.
D.L.H. There is the idea of centralisation and a spot whence light issues, and order and administration, and I suppose, in a sense, security too: all that seems to be connected with the thought of a city.
A.M.H. Did Satan get a hold on man in that way and then God brings in His city as a set off against that?
J.T. That is what I thought, after the flood the idea revived, "let us build us a city", that was existent in Abram's world, the world out of which he was called.
Ques. There is a centre of interest?
J.T. I think it effects deliverance, politically. There are more politics in us than we are prepared to admit, more national feeling than we are prepared to admit: you said today, Mr. H, that we should not profess to have national feelings, but as a matter of fact one knows one's own self that national feeling is one of the most deeply rooted things in us.
D.L.H. It is in the blood. Only from the christian's standpoint you cannot conceive of it, it will not work: the moment you bring in christianity, away with your nations, because christianity knows no nations, so far as I see.
W.C. Does the passage "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you" in Matthew refer to any actual nation.
J.T. I think it is an abstract reference to Paul's ministry.
Rem. Peter speaks of a "holy nation".
J.T. God has not given up the idea of a nation, because He is the Author of nations, it was He who divided them, and it was a mercy that He did so, because it has become a check on sin; it was a certain limitation to man's world, the division of peoples. Imperialism was for the overthrow of that; Nimrod was Satan's tool to overthrow the division that God in mercy had made.
D.L.H. Supposing we are praying at a meeting for prayer, how could a christian, if he is intelligent in what christianity is, talk about 'our king'; it seems to me that the word would perish in your mouth if you tried it, it would not work, because, here is a French brother, or a German brother for that matter, or some other person
might be present, and how could he pray for 'our king'; it will not do at all. It is quite obvious from the christian standpoint there is no such thought; we pray for kings and for all that are in authority, surely.
A.M.H. I suppose we may have the light of that, but unless we have another political system, as Mr. T, was suggesting, our hearts are still holding to the system here.
D.L.H. Well, what a good thing it is that we have another system, and a very good one too, and it is going to stand when all the others will totter at their foundations.
J.T. You have another country, a heavenly city, and you may say a heavenly kingdom -- three things that go to make up the national position. "... we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved".
A.M.H. Mount Zion and the city -- where are those? You seem to make some distinction between what God chose, as if that might be the plan, and then what He builded, as if it might be the execution.
J.T. Yes. His choice is the site of the building, "here will I dwell, for I have desired it". Then the building is set up there. The building, of course, the habitation, is not in view; the city is not exactly the habitation; still, the idea of the building was on that site.
N.L. What does the thought of "Jerusalem" suggest to you?
J.T. It is the heavenly Jerusalem here. I think it is the name of the primary city that God had in His mind. The first mention of it is in the Book of Joshua; but David took Goliath's head into that city, as if anticipating the mind of God that that should be the centre of rule in the kingdom. I do not know what you might link with the name, perhaps you have something in your mind?
N.L. You get it again in Galatians, do you not, "Jerusalem which is above"; I wondered what the Spirit of God would convey to us in that way.
J.T. It was the name of "the city of the great King", and faith cherished it until it was displaced by the heavenly system, the heavenly things; so that it would be in that way the church as the heavenly capital of the universe.
J.B.C. Will the city have served its purpose completely in the world to come? In the opening of Revelation 21 you get the same vessel but looked at more in its character. I was thinking of what you were saying, that it is connected with power and administration in a settled form is it not? I thought it would serve the will of God until the completion of the world to come.
J.T. Then it becomes a tabernacle of God.
D.L.H. I think in the eternal state it takes the character of the holy Jerusalem. I suppose the heavenly Jerusalem stands somewhat in contrast to the earthly Jerusalem.
J.T. I think priority is the thought in it, in what is heavenly; "He that cometh from above is above all" and what is of heaven has priority to what is on the earth.
D.L.H. "I ... saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven", that is the eternal condition of things, but here in Hebrews, it seems to me to be the heavenly city, somewhat in contrast to the earthly Jerusalem, which was the centre of all Israel's hopes.
J.M. Is it on the line of the Songs of degrees -- what we go up to as God's great centre, rather than what comes out?
J.T. Yes. I think that the first statement here is what the city is -- how it is constituted, it is the city of the living God; and then the next thing, I think, is that it is in liberty and necessarily has priority to what is on the earth; so that the liberty side is seen more in Revelation, it comes down "having the glory of God"; it is free.
W.C. Would the saints in the early chapters of Acts represent it?
J.T. I have no doubt that the foundations and the exterior of it may be traced in the Acts, but it is Paul who gives the interior, the heavenly Jerusalem; he gives it, I apprehend, that touch.
Everything in the early part of the Acts is marked by life, that is, spiritual energy: if it were the serving of tables, looking after the ordinary material things in the assembly, it was by those who were filled with the Holy Spirit, they were replete with life; nothing was under hard officialism, but it was all in the energy of life. I think you have a remarkable connection in the history of Stephen between the city of the living God and the heavenly Jerusalem; there is development from the energy of life into the angelic face of the Lord's servant, his face was like the face of an angel; it was heavenly.
These things, in that way, are extremely educational, because the point for us, it seems to me, as has often been remarked, is to go back to the beginning, "That which was from the beginning". The city of the living God is what marks the disciples in the early part of the Acts, and the Lord set the thing, as it were, before them by assembling with them for forty days. "He shewed himself alive"; it was a living Man in the energy of life that was amongst them. It can easily be understood that if He shewed Himself at all it would be alive, but the Spirit says "He shewed himself alive". He brings in the word "alive".
H.N. How would they be constituted heavenly?
J.T. I think Paul brings that element in. It was in the mind of God from the outset, but it awaited the ministry of Paul to bring out the full position of the church. He went into Damascus and preached in the synagogues that Jesus was the Son of God, and that lays the basis for the heavenly position and liberty. So that Paul and Barnabas went to Antioch and stayed
there a whole year, they lived there, and it seems to me -- not that the Spirit of God says so formally -- that the connection is very striking, because it was there that the disciples were first called christians. They got a definite position in this world as outside and independent of what had position on the earth, they were followers of the Christ, and then we have the fact stated that they ministered to the Lord and "the Holy Spirit said, Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them". There is liberty for the Spirit, which is suggestive of the heavenly city, it is not held by any earthly claims, the Holy Spirit is free in it from any earthly trammels whatsoever. Then you have following upon that, Paul and his company.
H.N. I would like a little help in regard to what you were saying as to the city being the product of Paul's ministry. Why is it that, in the end of the Revelation, the city is identified with the twelve and Paul is not brought into view?
J.T. Because it is the external thing, it is what comes under the eyes of the universe, but the inner springs all connect themselves with Paul's ministry.
N.L. You do not get that thought in the first part of the twenty-first chapter; the thought of the twelve apostles comes out in connection with the city in the world to come.
N.L. You get the thought of the new Jerusalem in the first part of chapter 21 and in connection with Philadelphia, do you not? I was rather struck with that wonderful promise to the overcomer. I do not know if it is inopportune to ask how it works out.
J.T. I think it is very fitting, because Philadelphia involves the recovery of the truth of the church, and it shows that an overcomer would value the thought of the heavenly city, because anything that the Lord promises to you is what you value; He knows you value it.
W.C. What is the thought in the expression "the beloved city"?
J.T. I think it is a very suggestive expression; it shows what God thinks about it. The word "beloved" is very striking in scripture.
W.C. In the Psalm referred to (78) it speaks of "the mount Zion which he loved"; would "the beloved city" in Revelation be the development of that?
J.T. I suppose it would. You have the city added. Mount Zion is more the site.
W.C. There would be that found which is entirely according to God there.
J.T. Yes, there is much made of the city in the Psalms.
J.B.C. I was thinking, that the thought of Mount Zion gives you the sovereign power of God which accomplishes His own pleasure, you get the idea of the divine foundation of all there. But when you come to the city you have more what is built, what is formed, and would not that involve, not only the sovereignty of God, but also what He brings to pass in the souls of His people. A city must be built in detail; the conception is sovereign, but the execution is in detail.
J.T. Quite so, and wisdom comes out in the skill with which things are done. But Zion is sometimes identified with a structure; we are asked to go into it, walk about it, tell the towers, and take account of it in its varied features.
D.L.H. "Mark ye well her bulwarks".
J.T. Yes, it is worth reading, that Psalm. (Psalm 48 read). Remarkable tribute to the city!
D.L.H. Jerusalem is not mentioned, it is Mount Zion.
J.T. In that way the connection is very intimate. But the thought of the heavenly Jerusalem commands the attention particularly, because it is not only living, but it is a heavenly thing, it is such a delivering element from the earth.
But we must proceed, there are several elements and the next one, to my mind, is one we ought to pay attention to, that is, "the universal gathering"; I think that is how it reads.
D.L.H. "To myriads of angels, the universal gathering".
J.T. That is the third thing mentioned, which would greatly aid us in delivering us from localism, because it is a question of what is universal.
J.M. Is that why angels are brought in?
J.T. Well, I think, according to the way they are presented in scripture, they are very sympathetic with what God does everywhere, beginning at the foundations of the earth; but then here they are a representative company -- "myriads of angels, the universal gathering"; not only are they there by way of a host, a number, but they represent the universe, as you might say, they are not local. I do not know whether that commends itself to you?
D.L.H. Yes. I think so; it is remarkable the way that angels are introduced in regard to the divine system which christians are viewed as having come to -- I mean because they are christians.
J.T. And to think of them assembling! To think of their intelligence! The National Congress as it is called in America is supposed to represent the wisdom of the different departments of the realm; but think of the wisdom that is found in this holy congress of holy myriads, dating back as they do, according to Job, to the foundations of the earth! Think of all the experience that they have had! They have been the executors of the will of God in every dispensation. Think of the political wisdom, as you might say! -- because they have had to do with government very largely: their sympathies and concern, all is universal, they are not local. I mention it because if you move about among the people of God you will find that in the prayer meetings the expressed
interest is usually bounded by the town limits; perhaps the brothers that visit are mentioned, but the universal interests of Christ, so far as one has observed, are very little in the hearts of God's people, and I believe that this element here is intended to instruct us as to the universalism of the things of God. If we have come to this gathering, it is for us to understand what it means.
A.M.H. So that if you get the thought of a centre in the city, this is now your outlook, is it? We want to look round upon the whole of what God is doing.
D.L.H. Then is the idea that the saints forming the church have come into the good of the angelic ministry, at the present moment, in a kind of anticipatory way, in view of what will be seen in the world to come, when I suppose every family, angels included, will exactly fit into the precise niche which God has appointed?
J.T. I do not think we shall be surprised when we see the angels in the city gates if we have been exercised through our wilderness history, because as you say, that is what they have been to us. They are sent out, it says, "to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation". It is not that they may always be ministering directly to me, but they are acting in the world on our account; things that happen politically and internationally are all, more or less, under their supervision and all is moved and governed on our account.
D.L.H. So that the activity of these myriads of angels is a very important activity in view of the church at the moment. We are not very conscious of it, but there it is, and we have come to it.
J.T. We are entitled to reckon on divine intervention governmentally in this world, and you pray in the light of it; you are not to be overwhelmed by happenings, because things will only go so far.
J.B.C. Do you not think that if this were better understood it would save us from many an anxiety?
J.T. I think that. I know it in my own soul; I am
anxious about things and I find that at the bottom of my heart I knew they would be all right, yet I could not rest in it. God's angels are attending, but we do not rest in what we really believe at the bottom of our hearts, if you can understand what I mean.
D.L.H. I suppose the political element comes in rather in Daniel. "The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me", the angel says.
J.T. That book helps greatly in the elucidation of this reference; the angels are seen there acting in the empires of the world.
D.L.H. And so doing God's pleasure in acting on behalf of God's dear people.
J.T. That man praying, Daniel, is thinking of the interests of God everywhere and the angel comes to him.
Rem. We have instances in the Acts of the Apostles.
N.L. When Mr. G. Cutting was in South Africa at the time of the battle of Colenso, there were some remarkable instances of the preservation of christians, he wrote home and said the angels were busy that day.
D.L.H. I suppose they are busy oftentimes when we do not notice it.
A.M.H. It is rather remarkable that the measure of the city is "according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel"; have you any thought as to that?
J.T. I do not know; beyond that the city is all that a man energized by the Spirit of God could desire, there is nothing lacking there.
D.L.H. The Lord Himself assumes angelic form in the Revelation, now and again.
H.N. Would this "universal gathering" bring in the imperial idea just as the city gives the political idea?
J.T. I should say so, the angels represent that;
and the effect of their government would be to bring all in under Christ.
D.L.H. There again, it is a curious thing that the imperial idea first of all originated, apparently, in man's independent mind. God seems to take up that thought, so we find "who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords", 1 Timothy 6:15. That is Christ.
J.T. The next reference is to those that are privileged: you come to such a people as these. We want to know who these people are and what their privileges are. One can identify oneself with each of these things: I can identify myself with each of these features.
J.T. Well, for instance, "the firstborn" ones. I am one of these; I have to take account of them as privileged, but then I am entitled to merge myself in them, and if I go in to explore I find out I am one of them; what a discovery that is! I am one of the privileged ones. I have a firstborn's place: that eclipses all hereditary honours. Where am I now? I belong to the assembly of the firstborn ones, registered in heaven. There is a book "Who's who" in heaven as well as on earth, and that book contains these people, that book tells you who they are.
A.M.H. I was rather thinking of the other features we have been considering, as to how you connect yourself with the "innumerable company of angels", for instance.
J.T. Well, I have a place in the administration, you know.
J.B.C. Do you get the light of this in the epistle to the Romans, "heirs of God"; and then it is emphasised "and joint-heirs with Christ": that gives the peculiar dignity of the company.
J.T. Yes, "joint-heirs with Christ". I notice it does not say you should have come to these things, but it says
"ye are come"; it is what the christian has come to; it is for him to find out what each thing is.
H.N. Would you mind giving a word on "God the judge of all".
J.T. The point is, I think -- have I a grievance? -- and most of us have grievances. Well now, I have come to God the judge of all. I suppose the greatest difficulty in the world is that no one's word is final. But God's word is final and He has power to enforce it, and I have come to Him, so that I can leave it with Him. And then I have come "to the spirits of just men made perfect". What society that is! I get amongst them. The question is, am I one of those?
Ques. Does that refer to those who have passed away?
J.T. It is an abstract reference. All are made perfect in that day; but every saint has a spirit which is just. It does not say that we have come to just men, but that we have come to the spirits of just men made perfect.
H.N. Now give us a word on the last.
J.T. Then you have "Jesus the mediator of the new covenant". That is the one Man that stands out pre-eminently amid that throng, that vast throng of the redeemed: there is one Man that stands out there for the soul -- Jesus. It is the Man; He holds the soul; the soul is detained before Him and it is from Him that all takes character. And He has made good the love of God; He is the mediator of the new covenant. He has made it effective; every christian can say in the history of his soul 'He has made the love of God effective in my soul through His death'.
D.L.H. And He establishes the will of God. I suppose that is another point -- the covenant.
J.B.C. We have connected those things with the race: is it in your mind that we are going on, in that way, to the blessed actuality of them, but presently we have come to them spiritually: they are real?
J.T. That is what I thought. One is invigorated by the thought that one has come to these things.
J.B.C. I was interested in what you said at the beginning about the vision: "for he with whom these things are not present is blind, short-sighted". I think it would be a great aid in running the race if these things were present to us.
J.T. What I think is apparent in the Acts is that the Lord in employing different vessels in the promulgation of the testimony, and in operating in different sections and countries, involving sectional feeling, maintained practical unity and caused the truth to spread; and in causing it to spread He caused it to be exemplified in those who spread it, as He had exemplified it Himself as recorded in the gospels. The apostles, being the children of wisdom, exemplified the truth, not only in their service but in their general walk and ways, corresponding with the testimony. The disciples are said to have been called Christians first in Antioch. They stand out there as followers of Christ, and it should be noted that this is in connection with the service of Barnabas and Saul.
In meeting the difficulty mentioned in chapter 6, the Lord took up others besides the apostles and carried on the work; it was carried on effectively in Stephen and Philip particularly, and in others. Then we find the Holy Spirit, in resuming the record of Peter's service, brings forth certain facts that would show he had profited by the experience. The Lord evidently taught His servant, by the very difficulties that arose, what was needed at the moment. The first person who received blessing through Peter, as his service is resumed, is one who had been a paralytic, Aeneas was raised up and ordered to make his bed for himself, as if to intimate that the circumstances now required that the believer should know how to act for himself, Acts 9:34. Then in the case of Dorcas, the facts suggest that she, although an active woman and efficient in her service, died. In what followed the apostle Peter emphasized life. She is given back to the saints and widows as a living woman. All this, I think, is intended to give colour to the section from which we have read. Light goes out to the Gentiles
and they are admitted into the kingdom through a man whose service is marked by these things. I mention all that to indicate the exercise I had in suggesting this section. I wanted to show (referring to the types) how the parts of the tabernacle were set up and divinely held together.
R.S.S. What is the analogy between the tabernacle and the assembly as at the beginning?
J.T. I think the tabernacle was intended to represent the full effect of the testimony in this dispensation. It was not intended to represent simply what the twelve did. I take it that it more particularly referred to Paul's service, including the twelve of course.
J.T. It was made in parts and then set up. In effecting this, as at the beginning, wisdom is put to the test. It triumphed in the apostles. Wisdom is emphasized in Exodus in the two men who were employed in its construction -- Bezaleel and Aholiab. It is a question largely of love, but love acting wisely, and I think these chapters -- Acts 11 - 15 -- show how wisdom acted to hold and maintain things according to God.
W.H.F. Does not the tabernacle express what is more extended than the assembly?
J.T. It was a figurative representation of things in the heavens and includes the world to come, but all this is held now, tentatively, in the church; thus we have "Christ being come high priest of the good things to come, by the better and more perfect tabernacle", Hebrews 9:11. I think some of our brethren present had an exercise as to the vital side of the truth. Things are to be held vitally or they are not really held at all. Divine things are to be held in love.
A.F.M. You referred to Antioch just now. What particular feature of the tabernacle appeared there?
J.T. It was what we may call the independent action of the Holy Spirit. It was the fruit of those that were
scattered through the persecution that arose in Stephen's time. Generally speaking, the service was carried on in relation to Jews, or Jewish proselytes, but some went on and spoke to the Grecians, with the result that many were turned to the Lord; and then the church that was at Jerusalem, recognizing a new feature had come up, wisely sent out Barnabas; and Barnabas, being an unjealous, good man, full of the Spirit, went and sought out Saul, and Saul being brought there, he and Barnabas assembled with the saints. The word 'assembly' is used, and the word 'crowd' is used, Acts 11:24 - 26. The fact that they assembled with the saints would show they were on tabernacle, or assembly lines, and they remained for a year in Antioch. So the full thought of the assembly comes into evidence, as the beginning of chapter 13 shows, but all was linked on, Barnabas being, so to say, the golden link that the type suggests; he linked all on with Jerusalem. The time was coming when the full truth of the church would come out, the mystery, when all should be linked up with heaven, but in the ways of God Jerusalem was still recognized and unity maintained. The enemy was defeated in his effort to introduce sectional or party feeling and room was made for the Holy Spirit. So we find, "the Holy Spirit said", chapter 13: 2.
A.F.M. In connection with the thought of the tabernacle, how would you regard these christians at Antioch -- as boards or curtains?
J.T. Both. The presence of Paul and Barnabas was used. They were taught the truth of the assembly which involves the boards and curtains of the tabernacle. I think Romans is that which brings in the boards.
E.P.L. When the Holy Spirit appeared in times of revival such as we have in the Acts, and is pleased to open the door to the Gentiles, it seems He acted simultaneously in different places; and it does not appear that those in Antioch had knowledge of Peter's action in receiving Cornelius.
J.T. The Holy Spirit was acting simultaneously, still there was a formal action by Peter which must take place so that the Gentiles should be admitted. He had the keys of the kingdom.
F.L. There is a moral line which underlies all this and which in a way gives a suggestion as to where what is vital is to be found. In chapter 6, to which reference was made, the apostles said it was not right for them to serve tables; in a sense it was beneath them, and it suggests they had made but poor use of the time when they sat with the Lord over against the temple and the Lord puts His valuation upon what a certain widow was doing. That is, she was putting all her living into the house of God, and the Lord estimates that, He assesses it, and they were with Him. When it came to a question of the widows they say in effect, it is beneath us and we will give ourselves to the word of God and to prayer. The answer of the Lord to that is in Stephen and Philip, and then again later on, when the door is open, as we get it here, and Jew and Gentile have to be brought together. Saul and Barnabas are distinguished in this; in their ministry they have committed to them, as it were, the serving of tables. They gathered the bounty and carried it to Jerusalem, and in that act, so to speak, of vitality, gave practical evidence of how the Lord was bringing together the Jew and Gentile, so making of twain one new man.
R.S.S. The fact that they sent the ministry by them to Jerusalem showed affection.
J.T. We notice that in meeting these contingencies that arose the effect was increase in a vital way. The word of God, it says in chapter 6, increased, and the number of the disciples multiplied, and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith. These are the results, and so in the attack through Saul on the assembly the effect was that the assemblies were edified and multiplied, and had the comfort of the Spirit.
J.D. Is it not just as great a part of the truth that the Holy Spirit is down here in men as that Christ is in heaven?
J.D. So, if He is down here, consequent upon Christ going up there, what He will maintain here will be Christ.
J.T. It is wonderfully interesting to see divine wisdom meeting adverse conditions. Do you not think so?
J.D. Yes. Reference was made to what took place in the preceding chapter. Peter in discussing it said, "and the Spirit said to me to go with them, nothing doubting". Then he goes on to say that as he spoke "the Holy Spirit fell upon them even as upon us". In Peter there was the divine nature. Christ's sensibilities were there, His feelings, hence he was available for the Spirit.
H.G. In that connection, I was wondering whether the constituent parts of the tabernacle, the gold, silver, brass, blue, purple, etc., were not really the product of the covenant? In Exodus 15 you get the people delivered, in chapter 20 the covenant comes in and is amplified in the chapters that follow; but the result of Christ being written in the heart in covenant character was that you get all these various glories of Christ in the saints, and under the skill of these men of wisdom there is a place for them all. Through the wisdom of the Head one's exercise would be to make room for all that is of Christ.
J.T. Variety marks the Lord's endowment of the church. He gave some apostles, some evangelists, some prophets, some pastors and teachers.
H.G. In the tabernacle everything seems to be normal. I mean to say, there is no failure in connection with the material there apparently. It is all the positive work of God, the effect of the positive writing of Christ
in the saints, knitted together. We have in these chapters, no doubt, the adjustment necessary in view of what might have caused distance in these servants.
J.T. I think that under the Lord's hand that which was vital was preserved. In spite of the presence of what was extraneous, what was of God was preserved. That is the wonder, you might say, of christianity, that under the Lord's care and the constant activity of the Holy Spirit in us, what is of God is preserved and linked up together in spite of contrariety in me, and in spite of contrariety in you.
W.C.R. In the sheet let down from heaven there is variety; they come down together in the sheet, suggesting I suppose that we are to dwell together. Normally they would prey upon one another, but it is that which God has cleansed, and so He brings in adjustment so that they can be together.
J.T. Just so; and you notice it was "knit at the four corners:" there is the intimation, it seems, of universal or general security. All is securely held.
W.C.R. Peter had gone to the housetop to pray and ecstasy came upon him; in this state God reveals His great thought to him. Peter had been adjusted for the new service he was to render. It seems to me there is great teaching in that for us -- as to our being adjusted to one another. God brings elements together which naturally would not be together. The presence of the Holy Spirit explains this. As you say, it is wonderful how we can be together, the Lord maintaining us.
J.T. Well now, the enemy would use certain of the attendant circumstances of this great movement to bring in division. That is what this chapter opens with. It says, "The apostles and the brethren who were in Judaea heard that the nations also had received the word of God; and when Peter went up to Jerusalem, they of the circumcision contended with him, saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised and hast eaten with
them". Now that was true but it was not all the truth. It was the enemy's effort to use an attendant circumstance to the testimony to make a breach among the saints.
G.A.T. Would you say the brethren in Jerusalem were not open for the movement of the Spirit?
J.T. They were. You see the binding spirit is in the apostles, "The apostles and the brethren who were in Judaea heard that the nations also had received the word of God". That was evidently news which they valued. But it says, "When Peter went up to Jerusalem, they of the circumcision contended with him" -- not the apostles and brethren.
J.T. They were religious men after the flesh.
J.D. And that is what we have now, the fleshly official class will always oppose the moral, and the movements of the Spirit.
H.G. They of the circumcision were not in correspondence with the materials of the tabernacle at all.
J.T. No, but the apostles and brethren were, because the apostles represent the cherubim in the curtains, a most essential element. The brethren may be said to represent the links of affection in the system.
A.F.M. What do you mean by the cherubim in the curtains?
J.T. The authority of Christ, which can never be abrogated.
A.F.M. It is very instructive to see how the apostle, in his explanation, saves the situation.
J.T. He is a child of wisdom. It is one of the greatest exercises one has, and I am sure brethren have generally, how to meet difficulties that arise. The situation here was delicate and this was a skilful attack. The opposers do not state the whole case; they do not say what happened; they merely mention one thing. Job says, "How hast thou plentifully declared the thing as it is?"
When you do that you have the truth. Peter states the whole truth and the whole truth carries the consciences of those who were exercised.
H.G. Peter does not stand on his dignity. Our brother was speaking of the Lord's appreciation of the woman who served. He saw in her the product of Himself -- "I am among you as he that serveth" -- and one feels, as serving one another, we have to divest ourselves of our dignity. In view of conserving things, as we see in Acts 15, Paul did this.
J.T. I think that is a good word. Peter did not stand on the fact that he was a great apostle and had the keys of the kingdom.
H.G. No, nor on the mere fact of his vision.
F.L. Nor on the mere fact of his being right. I think that sometimes, when we have a consciousness of being right, we fall back upon the sort of dignity of that, and say, I do not care to go into things any further. But what is suggested in reference to Peter here, and to Paul later on, is that when there is a good conscience in the inquirer he is perfectly willing to be put on his defence and give the fullest explanation. I suppose that where there is not a good conscience in the inquirer, and you feel there is malice in the attack, one is justified in leaving the issue with the Lord; but where there is a good conscience in the inquirer there would be willingness and humility to give an explanation; and I think it is helpful to see that in times like these, when we have questions coming up constantly.
J.T. Peter's patient, humble defence of his actions and position affords a very excellent object lesson for every one of us.
J.B. Ephesians 4 brings before us meekness and lowliness. As I understand it, that is what characterizes those among whom God dwells. These came out pre-eminently in the Lord Jesus when here, and now we see Peter manifesting those moral qualities in making his
defence. Paul's being content with what one might call a menial service is meekness and lowliness.
R.S.S. The Lord's consideration for His people is seen in what He did in regard to Peter. I refer to the vision. And is it not a very striking illustration of the fact that seeing a thing in type and figure has a tremendous effect upon our minds and moral being? Peter recounted this whole matter. It had convinced him that God was making a new departure, and now his recounting it had precisely the same effect on the others. If he had said, 'the Lord spoke to me', or 'the Holy Spirit spoke to me', there might have been a question -- 'Were you not mistaken. Peter?' But he recounted the whole thing exactly as it happened, and the effect on his spirit was reproduced in theirs; it says, "When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life".
J.D. Do you not think praying would lead to ecstasy, and ecstasy to revelations?
W.C.R. What do you mean by ecstasy?
J.D. I suppose the man was carried beyond himself, and I think it is quite possible to be carried beyond yourself if you are available for the Spirit, and then you get visions, real true ones. There was a state in Peter to which communications could be made. The Lord is very glad to make known His mind if there is a state to make it known to.
J.T. And prayer, as you said, leads to it.
W.Bs. It is very noticeable that the marked events in the Lord's life took place in connection with prayer: His baptism, the transfiguration and His death; and it seems to have been the same with Peter here.
J.T. What you are impressed with is the wondrous patience with which God treats His servants so as to bring them to a state where He can communicate to them; here He was fitting Peter to use the keys divinely,
as you might say, in moral dignity. He might have used them otherwise, but now God has brought him into complete sympathy with Himself in using them.
F.L. Peter was hungry and desired to eat. There was the state beneath that longed for something. It was not satisfied with what had been. Then there comes the prayer and the ecstasy, and the enlightenment from God, leading to the use of the keys, which leads on to Paul's line of the one new man.
J.D. In the beatitudes the Lord said, "Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness". Possibly we have not given Peter credit enough for the desire for righteousness he had. He must have had wondrous impressions as to the Lord's mind when he became the vessel for the opening out of the mind of God in regard to the Gentiles.
A.F.M. In regard to his explanation here in this chapter, do we not have the importance of testimony? The Spirit had spoken, saying he should go, doubting nothing, and then the six men who accompanied him are mentioned.
J.T. It says, "I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in an ecstasy I saw a vision, a certain vessel descending like a great sheet, let down by four corners out of heaven, and it came even to me". He goes on to say in effect, what else could I do? -- God was working and I worked with Him. He impresses upon them that he was acting with God. He says, "on which having fixed mine eyes, I considered, and saw the quadrupeds of the earth, and the wild beasts, and the creeping things, and the fowls of the heaven". He fixed his eyes on the vision and considered.
F.L. It suggests in Genesis 7 God had put the creatures with Noah in the ark in preparation for a new order of things, a new sphere in which those quadrupeds and creeping things were to develop.
J.T. And do you not think Noah helps us as to
discrimination? He sent out the raven first, but it did not return; then he sent out the dove and it returned to him. Noah thus learned by experience. He knew the clean animals and the unclean ones.
W.Bs. These creatures as seen in the sheet would be objectionable to the natural mind, especially of a Jew; he would not admit that they could be brought into connection with God.
J.T. Although he fastens his eyes on them, and considers them, Peter is not left to his own resources as to how to act or what conclusions to draw. It says, "I heard also a voice saying to me, Rise up, Peter, slay and eat. And I said, In no wise, Lord, for common or unclean has never entered into my mouth. And a voice answered the second time out of heaven, What God has cleansed do not thou make common. And this took place thrice, and again all was drawn up into heaven; and lo, immediately three men were at the house". He has thus the mind of God before he has to say to the three men.
H.G. Before his praying he is brought to the house by the seaside, which is suggestive. The Mediterranean lay before him, which possibly may have suggested to him the Gentile world. We can hardly think how a man who had the Holy Spirit could have his affections hemmed in. They must of necessity go out to all men. He needed instruction. Even the divine nature in a man needs enlightenment. If you and I do not understand each other it might not be flesh working -- it might be the divine nature in you, or myself, or both of us, that needed instruction.
J.T. You mean that it required that Peter should come to the Gentiles to get help?
H.G. Yes, and then his affection might have been going out to them, but his Jewish prejudices held him back. That is, the work of God in us is sometimes beyond our light.
J.T. Coming into contact with each other makes
such a great difference. When giving this account of the matter, Peter had already had intercourse with Cornelius and his company. It makes such a difference when you have had to do with a man instead of hearing of him or from him.
J.B. Would you say that God was making known to Peter in this way a "greater and more perfect tabernacle"?
J.T. Well, quite. Peter was a fisherman and he would have remembered, doubtless, that the Lord had in an emergency controlled the sea, finding the piece of money in the mouth of the fish. He would have recalled the possibilities of the sea for God.
H.G. The Roman world lay before him there. The Mediterranean was simply the basin of the Roman world.
F.L. As a fisherman he was familiar with the Jewish lake. Now he has that which is the expression of the wide world. God says, I will show you that it is all clean, "What God has cleansed".
E.P.L. I wonder if you would connect what you have been saying with the Lord's words in the last chapter of Luke, that they should preach to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Jerusalem was the Jewish centre, and here we have the different steps by which God's centre was removed from earth to heaven. Antioch was not an earthly centre as Jerusalem was: the real centre was Christ in heaven.
J.T. Peter would be impressed with the place heaven had in the vision.
G.W.H. He would go back to Matthew 16. "On this rock I will build my assembly". It is the Lord's operation from heaven here.
R.S.S. And it was there He committed the keys to him that he is using now.
W.C.R. The four corners would suggest the universal dominion of the Son of man.
J.T. What I would very much like for myself, as well as for my brethren, is to see how all is held together,
because if you look at the church as it is today you can hardly conceive of anything that is outwardly more fragile, and yet it is held, and the point is to see how it is held. It is not held by outward formalisms. Our brother spoke particularly of things being vital, which really means the work of God in our souls, and I think Peter had come to John's line when he resumed his service as recorded in chapter 9. That is, he had come to life. He presents Dorcas to the saints alive.
J.D. The coming down of the Spirit of God, consequent upon redemption, must have all men in view, because, as you have been suggesting, He is here not simply on behalf of the Son of David, but also on behalf of the Son of man, so that all have come into the view of God; and what Peter needed instruction in, I suppose, was the full extent of the redemptive work of Christ. I do not know whether you see the truth of Matthew 16 in the sheet or not, but you see greater than that: the Son of man, who is over all the works of God's hands.
W.C.R. It is because reconciliation has been accomplished, otherwise God could not approach men, as indicated here.
J.T. As our brother remarks, the nations come into the view of God. Simeon remarks: "A light for revelation of the Gentiles", Luke 2:32. The veil is taken off so they are now before God and taken up tentatively in reconciliation. "What God has cleansed" is abstract. We know that was not subjectively true of the Gentiles as a whole, but it was in the abstract.
J.S. The fact that it came out of heaven has a bearing.
J.T. I think it has a very great bearing because the Son of man is there. It is a representative title. God had raised Him from the dead and given Him glory. He is there representative of men, as I understand, and all are in that way taken account of abstractly.
F.L. It has to be regarded abstractly because the passage speaks of quadrupeds, etc. Divine cleansing would change them and render them suitable to God. The power of death had to come in, "Arise, Peter; slay and eat". The cleansing involved a change from what is presented in the sheet. The gospel would effect this change. Cornelius and his company had none of the features of the wild beasts.
J.D. In the world to come the lion and the lamb will dwell together. I do not suppose the Spirit of God has any particular delight in letting us know what the beasts will do then. I would rather judge that is setting forth the moral elements found in men. Neither of these things will be found there. Men will be found together; and what marks the world to come is now seen in the assembly.
J.B. Is it not significant that Cornelius was a soldier of the most terrible beast of all?
G.A.T. I thought that what the vessel contained represented the church from God's side, and Peter saw what we were naturally.
J.T. Yes, it is not that they were to remain in this state. As our brother points out, the lion and lamb lie down together, "The sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den"; no doubt it will be seen literally in the future, but if one of us is naturally a lion and another a lamb, we will be together. That is the moral victory of christianity: the natural features are displaced through the work of God.
G.A.T. What did the vessel actually contain?
J.T. What the Gentile world presented. As the apostle says: "For we were once ourselves also without intelligence, disobedient, wandering in error, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But when the kindness and love to man of our Saviour God appeared, not on
the principle of works which have been done in righteousness which we had done, but according to his own mercy he saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, which he poured out on us richly". Titus 3:3 - 6. That is how things are brought about -- what we were and what we are. It is through the redemption-work of Christ and the pouring out of the Spirit.
W.Bs. The assembly is viewed as derived from Christ, apart from the sinful history of those who form it. There is also what we have in Ephesians 2:3; "and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others" -- what we were. Is the latter the view taken in this sheet?
J.T. Yes; I think it is the Roman side of the truth. Romans 1 and 2 describe what we were. But now God was making no difference and was cleansing the Gentiles. What the church is as derived from Christ is Ephesian truth. Strictly, union is found only in Ephesians, but Romans is historical. It is what I have been and what God has made me through redemption. It is not a question of new creation, but what is brought about through redemption; whereas Ephesians is what I was in His counsels, so my history, in that sense, begins with Christ.
J.D. It does not seem to me to be a question of individuals here at all. It is that the nations as a whole have come into the view of God; the nations stand on the ground of reconciliation, so Peter is free to go out to them.
J.T. Quite so, the nations were to be offered up as sanctified by the Holy Spirit, Romans 15:16.
W.Bs. The 11th chapter sets forth the religious element, in the way of opposition. This chapter presents the political element. Herod represents this.
W.E. It is significant that what he did "pleased the Jews".
J.T. The fact that Peter is preserved has its own place in this connection.
W.C.R. Does Peter still represent the vessel of testimony?
J.T. I think he represents the authority of Christ; an authority that was founded not only on his commission but also on his experience. Experience is an important feature in the vessels of the testimony. Alongside the fresh energy that had set in, the energy of life, he who represented divine authority is preserved of God, notwithstanding the effort of Satan to destroy him.
J.B. Is there any significance in the fact that, the door of blessing being now opened to the Gentiles, persecution comes from that source? This is the first time in the Acts we read of persecution coming from the secular government. Hitherto it was the priests.
J.T. I think Herod is the antichrist, although not allowed to develop.
A.F.M. Is your thought that the authority of the Lord is continued in regard to the testimony?
J.T. Yes. That was the reason why I suggested that this chapter should be read, that we might see how important it is that authority founded on experience should be preserved alongside the fresh impulse given to the testimony.
W.C.R. What do you mean by the authority of the Lord being preserved?
J.T. Well, today we have no appointees of Christ, we have no officers. We have often heard that, but it
must not be assumed that there is no authority here. There is, and there will be while the Holy Spirit remains, and authority is usually founded on experience. Authority now must be moral.
C.A.M. You are speaking of things in an administrative way, are you not?
J.T. Well, even if there be no direct application of the authority it is a great thing to see that it exists, Peter is not seen here as active in service, but as preserved. We see how in chapter 15 he comes in and meets the situation with divine wisdom, in conjunction with James. He is preserved here.
C.A.M. Would you say again just what he represents today?
J.T. Any moral formation based on experience with God, involving weight and leadership among the saints.
F.L. I think this is a continuation of the mount of transfiguration. Peter, James and John were with the Lord on the mount, and James now gets the cup and baptism which the Lord promised he should. John is held in reserve and remains to the end -- "If I will that he tarry till I come". Peter is marked off for death but is preserved for a while longer. Peter, as it were, comes out from amongst the dead. He comes out from the prison house. I suppose there is a suggestion in that way of the two witnesses of Revelation 11. That is, death and resurrection in connection with witness. Is that on the line of what you have before you?
J.T. I think Peter describes the cherubim and John the seraphim. The cherubim is preserved here of God. The earlier chapters -- that is, 9, 10, and 11 -- show Peter's education (if one may speak humbly in this way); what he had acquired through the experience arising out of the murmuring; but this is a divine intervention, not a question of Peter's education nor of his work, but of how God preserves the element of authority amongst His people.
G.A.T. Do you think God would be using this to prove to Peter what the Lord told him that the gates of hell should not prevail against the church? Matthew 16:18.
J.T. Yes. I think Matthew is the cherubim, and Peter has his place in that; but John is the seraphim side. That is, it is priestly, but priestly in the sense of guarding the person of the Lord Jesus. He takes care of His personal dignity; Peter is in general the representative of divine authority.
W.C.R. In giving him the keys the Lord spoke about binding and loosing. Would that be authority?
R.S.S. You used an expression, authority founded upon experience with God: I was wondering if it might be illustrated in Paul in the shipwreck. He was not a seafaring man and yet he knew what ought to be done a good deal better than the captain of the vessel, and not hearkening to him they sustained great loss. He spoke with great authority on board that vessel time and again. Is that the thought?
J.T. Yes. If you apply the shipwreck to the church it becomes all the more apparent. They did not listen to Paul.
R.S.S. When you speak of authority based on experience with God, it is moral.
J.T. Oh, quite. As I was remarking, no brother would assume to be an official directly ordained today, but there are elder brethren, and our exercise should be that God would preserve them among us; the saints need them. They need the experience that they have. A young man might have life, but he cannot have what an old man has, a man who has been with God for years.
H.G. Rehoboam lost ten-twelfths of his kingdom by refusing the counsel of the old men. On the other hand, Paul says to Timothy, "Let no one despise thy youth". One needs to know how to maintain the balance.
J.T. Quite. There was really no one like Timothy. I think Paul had a certain feeling of discrepancy in putting forward a young man, but there was no one else. The old ones apparently were not available. But the saints need all there is available.
F.L. The fact is that the divine system is one of beautiful balance, and it takes account of the fact that those who ripen in experience pass off the scene and there is constantly being fitted in from the other end that which is in the energy and vigour of vitality; then there are those that lie between, and things are never rightly proportioned unless they are always in evidence. So the old should look with joy and with a welcome hand to those whom the Lord is expanding and opening out in spiritual vitality; and the young should look with gratitude upon those who are experienced in the ways of God and have stood long years as an asset in the house of God, and the fact is, nothing is right unless there is place for both of them. Now the older amongst us have something the young cannot have. They have experience, as you say, and in the house of God nothing is right unless there is the recognition of the divine ways. Provision is made for both and they are supposed to be sympathetic. Now if we lack that sympathy then there is fertile ground for dissension and trouble, and it will come.
H.G. I was wondering as to the point before you: this morning we were looking at the conservation of divine resources; the activity of grace amongst us is the preservative against disintegration. The only safeguard is the grace of God working amongst us. Is this the thought of the providence of God coming in to conserve what is of God?
J.T. That is what I thought; God acting providentially -- through an angel -- to preserve Peter.
F.L. I think the interest of the thing is immense; the testimony is one. Peter and James, it seems to me,
must be regarded as one; so, while death is working, the intervention of God in preserving life is working also. The testimony is one and it is ever supported by what is fitted in, so if James expresses that which goes down in death. Paul is ready to be worked into the testimony. It is always maintained and carried.
J.T. You see a great impulse given here. That is, that the scattered ones are occupied in the testimony, in preaching. Here you have an extraordinary situation, the scattered ones acting, as we may say, on their own volition. It says, "Those then that had been scattered went through the countries announcing the glad tidings of the word", Acts 8:4. I do not know that you noticed that but it is a remarkable expression at that particular juncture. You have in chapter 8 the glad tidings of the word, the glad tidings of the kingdom, and the glad tidings of Jesus; but the scattered ones announced the glad tidings of the word: in other words, what they had in their own souls. Now it says in the 11th chapter, "They then who had been scattered abroad through the tribulation that took place on the occasion of Stephen, passed through the country to Phoenicia, ... who entering into Antioch spoke to the Greeks also, announcing the glad tidings of the Lord Jesus". Now that is an extraordinary situation; an entirely new development. They were not commissioned. It is obviously the energy of life in them. They loved the Lord, the word of God was in them, and they preached, but what would be the result if that went on? There must be coordination. The activities of God here through His people must be coordinated. Otherwise you would have every one doing what is right in his own eyes. What would you say to that?
J.D. I am listening with great interest to what you say.
J.T. Do you not think that where you have a condition such as we now have, this instruction is
needed? We have had leaders and the Lord has taken them. Now how are things to be maintained? We have movements here and there, evidences of the Holy Spirit's activities that we cannot but rejoice in; but then, the element of divine authority, involving order and coordination must be recognized. The house of God is one and is ruled by Christ. There must be full acknowledgement of that fact and of all the elements He employs. Those who have experience with God are of the utmost importance in the house of God, and I think that chapter 12 is introduced in order to bring that into evidence; and chapter 15 following upon it, shows the wisdom of it: whilst there was no restraint on the impulse of the Spirit, there was coordination and regulation, so that unity was preserved.
J.D. What do you refer to in chapter 12?
J.T. The preservation of Peter. He was preserved by God providentially, but evidently preserved for the ordering of the house.
F.L. You refer to the value of the experience that Peter had.
J.T. Yes, look at the precious treasure that was in that man. Think of what there was there, the experience that he had acquired with Christ in His ministry here and subsequently. It was a priceless treasure. Well, there is such a treasure today too to maintain; of course, of a much less degree, but still most essential.
A.F.M. Would you get an illustration of this in Jacob, to whom the truth of the house of God was committed? At the end of his ripe experience he gathers his sons around him and foretells what should befall them in the last days. There was the authority of God there and the voice of wisdom, etc.
J.T. Yes, a comparison between Genesis 49 and Deuteronomy 33 helps in regard to that very thing. In the first it is, "Hearken unto Israel your father". It is, really the parental authority of Christ, as you might say.
But in Deuteronomy 33 it is not the father, but the man of God -- "the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel".
J.D. It looks from this chapter as though God acted in answer to the prayers of the assembly. It says, "unceasing prayer was made by the assembly to God concerning him".
J.T. But it seems that whilst they maintained the outward order of prayer they were not up to their prayers. That is, I think the chapter shows us (without, of course, emphasizing it) that decline had set in at Jerusalem. The prayer meeting was kept up as usual, but when that which was prayed for appears they do not believe it could be possible.
F.L. There again the younger element is shown in Rhoda. She has the joy and intelligence of the thing when those who were further on in a certain way and would be able to give expression in their prayers, as you say, were not up to what had transpired. The evidence of God's hand was real and she accepted it. I can see at the present time the same thing -- the young grasping, in the energy of faith, what God gives when the older ones are a little dubious about it.
J.T. We have the old and young beautifully linked together in Rhoda and Peter. She recognizes his voice.
R.S.S. You said, if I understood you, that Peter's preservation seems to be in view of the church.
J.D. It is good to solicit God on behalf of certain men who are specially valuable to the church. As far as I see, neither Peter nor those who prayed for him were up to the movements of God here. Peter thinks he has seen a vision. He is not sure about the thing at all. It seems to me that what we have coming out here is the authority of the Lord for the assembly. I was thinking of the difference between Peter's preservation and John Baptist's head being cut off; the latter closes a dispensation and there is no angel to deliver him, but there
is an angel to deliver Peter because there is a new moral dispensation which the Lord would maintain.
F.L. Do you not think we are prepared here for a transference? That is, Peter is virtually seen as having filled his day; the ministry the Lord gave him was in the main accomplished; things are being prepared for a transference to Paul, so that, while he is delivered out of prison and, as you say, the ripe experience is preserved to the assembly, it is not he that carries things on. Another comes in to carry them on, and I think in the house of God there is nothing more interesting than to see how when one has, as it were, completed his course, another or others come in and continue the work.
J.T. And it is most important for us to take account of all that God has provided. Peter was peculiarly valuable at this juncture, as representing the authority of Christ, strengthened, as it was, by the moral weight which his great experience would accord him. But Paul and Barnabas were to be the active vessels. The effect of the service of the scattered ones is gathered up and brought under the teaching and influence of Barnabas and Saul. Thus the assembly at Antioch was formed. This was an additional asset, as one may say -- an assembly through which the Holy Spirit can act. It seems to me that these chapters help in that way to show how the results of the work of God are all seen in their relative value, and then all coordinated so as to be in their settings according to the direction of the Lord and thus available as He needs them.
F.L. And would you not say of a vessel in the house of God that its service may be changed or take different form? That is, Peter had yet to produce his two beautiful letters, which have been such a wealth of comfort and light to the assembly.
J.B. The apostolic element, represented in Peter, is preserved in those two epistles to us.
G.A.T. You said we were liable to have the form of prayer without being affected by it.
J.T. I think that is the lesson to be gathered. We have our prayer meetings, etc., but is faith commensurate with these outward forms? Chapter 12 is to show how God intervened, and how in result "the word of God" it says, "grew and spread itself", verse 24. That is a feature of the house. The word of God has been in it uninterruptedly, and that works. As the apostle says, it "is not bound". But it is most interesting to see how the result of the work of the scattered ones is brought under the teaching of Barnabas and Saul.
J.D. Well now, what would correspond with that today, in view of the ruin of the church?
J.T. It says, "A great number believed and turned to the Lord. And the report concerning them reached the ears of the assembly which was in Jerusalem" chapter 11: 21 - 22, and then it says, "And they sent out Barnabas". Notice, Barnabas. I take him to represent the golden clasps of the tabernacle. Being "a good man, and full of the Holy Spirit" he would link with what was of God. They selected the right man to send. That was wisdom, and they prescribed where he was to go. He was to go as far as to Antioch, and it says, "who, having arrived and seeing the grace of God, rejoiced". You will pardon my going into details, but what I think is that in the varied activities of the Holy Spirit (in whatever section or country) the spirit that marked Barnabas takes account of it and rejoices in it. He is not for the moment in the least occupied with how it affects him or his locality, or country. It is a question of what is of God, wherever it is. It says, "he went away to Tarsus to seek out Saul". He did not write or send for him. He went for him and sought him out. You can understand the conversation that would ensue when he met him. The passage further reads, "And having found him, he brought him to Antioch. And so it was with
them that for a whole year they were gathered together in the assembly and taught a large crowd: and the disciples were first called christians in Antioch". Now I gather from that, that in order to really appreciate a work of God in a locality one has to go there, and indeed live there; not only for a month, but for a whole year; because if you are to understand the vicissitudes of assembly history locally you must not only summer with the brethren, but winter with them. They stayed a whole year, and during the time assembled with the brethren and taught them. They thus became available to Christ, as chapter 13 shows, in the testimony, and it was a wonderful triumph. And so it says, they were first called christians at Antioch. There were other movements, but this shows how the assembly was formed at Antioch, and what the result was. You have that in the 13th chapter -- the Lord is ministered to. You do not get that in a 'crowd'. The effect of the preaching was that a 'crowd' was added to the Lord, but it is in the assembly the Lord is ministered to; and the assembly at Antioch, in that sense, was obviously formed through the ministry of these men. By visiting Antioch, Barnabas evidently discerned what was needed there, and so he went to Tarsus to seek Saul.
J.D. Would that be more a question of what was local; and you might have any brother visiting the place, or you might have a local brother raised up in the place to bring about that moral coordination you are speaking of? I see the principle working at the commencement, but are we not to have moral coordination today?
J.T. I am sure that the Holy Spirit operates sovereignly and there are the same feelings and exercises, but then there are local conditions that are not alike. For instance, at Crete (Titus 1) you would need a different line of ministry because of the kind of people there, etc. I think what I remarked is right, that if brethren could only visit one another and see what exists in all the
localities of the world, there would be a different view in many instances, from what is now held.
G.A.T. You get a different impression by being in a place than through letters regarding it.
J.T. When they would detain the Lord at Capernaum, He says, "I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also, for therefore am I sent". It was the levitical side He emphasized. It makes an immense difference in your estimate of a company of saints when you visit them, and see what they have to contend with and stay with them a year.
G.A.T. What do you mean by a year?
J.T. The different exercises come to light; what they have to contend with. The apostle speaks of wintering with certain ones.
R.S.S. He was three years at Ephesus, and a year and a half at Corinth.
J.T. And a year at Antioch, and he came back there. Barnabas and Saul became for a while local brethren at Antioch.
H.G. And your thought is that ministering to the Lord and also hearing the voice of the Holy Spirit (it says, "The Holy Spirit said, Separate me now Barnabas and Saul"), these things are brought into view in connection with coordination -- not exactly what you had before, the action of the Spirit? The scattered ones were working and the Holy Spirit recognized their work, and, while souls were blessed, you must have coordination, and hearkening to His voice.
J.T. That is what I thought. One can see how the Lord's assets increased, so to speak, because Antioch may be regarded as a sample. The apostle Paul enlarges on this thought in the way he uses the word "assemblies", showing that the Lord had, in these companies, formed the truth of the assembly.
A.F.M. A verse in Acts 15 would substantiate what you say; "But after certain days Paul said to Barnabas,
Let us return now and visit the brethren in every city where we have announced the word of the Lord, and see how they are getting on". That is the principle you are getting at?
J.T. Yes -- see how they are getting on locally.
F.L. What I would like is a little clearer distinction between two things that to my mind are both right. I do not know that I see the distinction as clearly as one would like. One is that universal touch that comes from Christ as Head, and through the presence and power of the Holy Spirit, which gives unity of thought and engagement of attention. At widely divergent points, wherever there is spiritual exercise, you will find it is moving along certain definite lines, which can only be through impulse from the Head and the presence of the Holy Spirit. That is one thing, and I think we all of us set a good deal of store by that. The other is the contact with individual localities. It seems to me that in the present condition of things there are many localities which are in spiritual vigour, who receive very little from those who may visit them; the need is met through men raised up locally; the supply is from the Head, through the presence of the Holy Spirit; one way and another joints and bands are exercised about that which is the truth for the time, which is of general exercise in the assembly; and yet they may have but very little contact with the Pauls and Barnabases. Is that not a feature of the broken state of things today?
J.T. No doubt, but to arrive at the truth we have to see how things were at the beginning; under the government of God things are extremely weak now and most of those who serve are men who work with their hands. It has turned out that way, but some years ago it was not so. Mr. Darby, for instance, traversed the globe as he had opportunity. That was in accordance with true levitical instinct and activity; as the Lord said, "I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent".
Well, now, is it not possible for the Lord to bring about conditions today in which brethren can be visited in their localities, so that what is of God is discerned, and what is not of God. Features that mark a locality are likely to characterize the saints there (e.g. Corinth and Crete) and it is necessary to know these features in order to minister intelligently. The apostle informed Titus as to the Cretans. It is most important that saints should be visited (especially if there are difficulties) whenever possible. I have found my judgment wholly changed when I met brethren and conversed with them, saw them in their locality; I believe any one engaged in levitical work ought to go as far afield as possible.
W.H.F. I was at many meetings with Mr. Darby and I do not know of any brother that supported evangelisation as he did. Again and again he made the remark that if brethren ceased to be evangelistic they would wither; and I would say just here that I think we need to be greatly stirred up in relation to that, that we ought to be more increasingly sympathetic with the Lord in relation to the spreading of the glad tidings.
J.T. I believe that. What we see at the end of this chapter is "But the word of God grew and spread itself" verse 24. It was the word itself. Then we have, "And Barnabas and Saul returned from Jerusalem, having fulfilled the service entrusted to them" -- a remarkable commendation of these two devoted men, that when they were sent up with money to Jerusalem they fulfilled the service and returned to Antioch.
J.D. It is remarkable what it says; "Immediately" (speaking of Herod) "an angel of the Lord smote him, because he did not give the glory to God, and he expired, eaten of worms. But the word of God grew and spread itself". It is put in contrast to what had taken place with him who is a type of the antichrist, "The word of God" is the testimony.
F.L. There is something remarkable about the
continuity of things. We see in Esau and the Edomites the implacable hatred of everything established in the sovereignty of God, which is seen in Jacob and the children of Israel. There was the effort to destroy the man child when Christ was born; and now the effort for the destruction of Peter. Herod was an Edomite.
W.Bs. There is a change here: the testimony is now connected with "Paul and his company". I have wondered if, in the order that we learn things in our souls, the epistles of Peter do not precede the epistles of Paul. The teaching we get in the epistles of Peter is more elementary and governmental. In Paul's epistles things are more developed. The assembly is brought into view, and the counsels of God.
J.T. Yes; Peter emphasizes the government of God, the element of government being so essential to construction. Without the maintenance of the government of God, we cannot have the assembly developed. Paul comes in on the line of construction. He is the "wise master-builder". Peter is not said to be that. Peter had "the keys of the kingdom of heaven". His service, therefore, is largely in relation to government, but if government is established there is liberty for building.
W.C.R. How does the government of God affect us?
J.T. Well, it subdues the will, and, on the other hand, it protects me against evil. Government is necessarily charged with these two features: the repression of lawlessness in the subjects of the kingdom, and the defence of these subjects from outward attack.
A.F.M. Do you connect that with the cherubim?
J.T. I think Peter represents it, and hence the importance of chapter 12.
G.W.H. The elements of the kingdom are there preserved, in view of construction.
H.G. It is said of the Lord that He will "shepherd them" (the nations) "with an iron rod" -- a peculiar expression. I suppose under His rule people will find the
beneficence of government; so in Peter you get the thought of shepherding.
J.T. If there is one word that spells the need of the world today it is "government", and I think what obtains in the world is very largely reflected in the church.
W.E. Would you say the path of righteousness prepares you for the building, which is brought in by Paul?
J.T. Just so, and the development in these chapters shows how Peter's service, in conjunction with James and the others at Jerusalem, is effective to make way for Paul, in view of the corrupting element that went out from Jerusalem.
L.G.M. Would you say that Peter's work was getting the material together and Paul's putting it in place?
J.T. I would not go so far as to say that he prepared Paul's material. I think the vision (chapter 10) on which we have been dwelling, suggested that Paul's ministry would come from heaven, but Paul brought in the material as well. He supplied the material as well as the design. Hence he says, "Other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ", and it was he that laid it as a wise master-builder, 1 Corinthians 3.
F.L. Peter, through the vision, had indicated to him the kind of material that would be found and used; but, as you say, Paul goes and gets the material.
J.T. There is no doubt that the presence of Barnabas and Saul at Antioch is the explanation of the remarkable product that is presented in this chapter: "the assembly which was there".
F.L. You were saying yesterday that they were there long enough, and identified in that way, that they were of that assembly locally. There were in Antioch in the assembly prophets and teachers, and Barnabas and Saul were included. I was thinking of the order -- prophets and teachers.
J.T. It is the order in which the gifts were given. The assembly was provided with all that was required and the result was that "they were ministering to the Lord and fasting". I think we see the result here -- what there was for the Lord, and in connection with that, "the Holy Spirit said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them".
H.G. What is the character of that service -- ministering to the Lord? Have we anything of it?
J.T. I think the chapter presents to us the teaching of Numbers: the priestly element and the levitical element dependent upon it.
J.B. Is this the assembly God-ward?
H.G. I think so, but I was inquiring as to the practical side: have we anything answering to it definitely?
J.T. Well. I think we have. I have no doubt the Supper becomes the occasion in which there is ministry to the Lord.
H.G. Yes. I fully go with that. I thought this more something special.
F.L. There seems to be the suggestion that things here were in perfect normality and order, and that there was produced, as it were, an excess. There were the prophets and teachers and the evidence of priestly exercise towards the Lord: He was ministered to. Thus the Holy Spirit is able to direct that Barnabas and Saul be separated for the work whereunto He had appointed them.
G.W.H. I would like to ask before going on, what is the thought in a prophet?
J.T. One that brings the mind of God in, I think. It was the gift that was to be especially desired according to 1 Corinthians.
F.L. Would you say, one who brings the light of God in at any time upon the existing condition? Today, for instance, the state of the church is not what it was in
Antioch, but the prophet brings in the mind of God for the present-day exercise.
J.T. Yes, the order of the gifts was apostles, then prophets, then evangelists, then pastors and teachers -- pastors and teachers being in one man.
J.B. They were set in the assembly, and therefore a prophet with his gift would be relative to the assembly, would he not?
J.T. He would. The apostle brings in authority. He asserts the authority of God in Christ. The prophet brings in the mind of God. If you have these features you have what God can, so to speak, add to, and the evangelist adds. Very often the difficulty in meetings is that the condition for addition does not exist -- I mean the principle of housekeeping, "He maketh the barren woman to keep house, and to be a joyful mother of children", Psalm 113:9. The conditions existed at Antioch with which God can identify Himself.
A.F.M. The pastor and teacher would take care of those the evangelist brought in.
R.S.S. Are we to regard Barnabas and Saul here as evangelists sent forth?
W.Bs. I notice in 1 Corinthians 12 the order is apostles, prophets, teachers, then miraculous powers. In Ephesians 4:11 it is apostles, prophets, evangelists, teachers. There is a difference.
J.T. Yes, because I think the state at Corinth scarcely warranted the idea of evangelisation. The evangelist is omitted. The conditions did not exist for it, but at Ephesus they existed.
R.S.S. There is not much use bringing forth children if you have not a home in which to bring them up.
H.G. Why does the Holy Spirit speak here? Later on, in Acts 16, Paul and others "were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia".
J.T. I think the point here is to emphasize the fact
that the Holy Spirit had now a vessel in connection with which He could operate, and He is acting sovereignly. He says, "Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them". And then it says, "They let them go;" as if they were held in links of affection with the local company. Being let go, they were sent forth by the Holy Spirit. The church did not send them forth. The church let them go, but the Holy Spirit sent them forth. He suggests the function of Eleazar, who is said to be the prince of the princes of the Levites, Numbers 3:32. That is, the priestly element, and the Holy Spirit linking Himself with it. The Levites, Barnabas and Saul, go out in connection with that.
H.G. But of course for your own direction you would look to the Lord.
J.T. Quite. Of course Barnabas and Saul would look to the Lord for direction; for after all to his own master the servant stands or falls.
H.G. I was meaning that you would look to the Lord, not exactly to the Holy Spirit.
J.T. Yes. But at this juncture prominence is given to the sovereign activity of the Holy Spirit -- no doubt to check the metropolitan spirit at Jerusalem.
R.S.S. It says, "The Holy Spirit said". Probably it was through some one that He expressed Himself, would you not think so?
J.T. Possibly. The point is, it was He that said it.
R.S.S. Yes, and it was recognized by them that it was the Holy Spirit speaking.
F.L. The whole idea here is a new departure in the divine way. That is, it is not Jerusalem. It is a new centre of divine operation outside of the Jewish land and city; and everything takes character from that new point of departure, and I suppose that adds to the gravity of what John Mark did when he left Barnabas and Paul and went back to Jerusalem.
J.T. The Lord had spoken of the testimony of the
Spirit and also of the apostles as distinguished from Him, John 15:26, 27. It is the work of the Spirit largely in these chapters, but when you come to the fifteenth they are beautifully blended: "It has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us", the apostles say.
A.F.M. I suppose these men, Barnabas and Saul, had been growing up in their place, and now they are at the disposal of the Lord in this attitude of prayer and fasting, so the Spirit can now speak in this way. Would that be the order? So, as levites, whilst their service was at Antioch, it was not confined to Antioch. It was worldwide in character.
J.T. Quite, and you will notice Saul is the last mentioned.
J.D. Yes. I was just noticing that.
J.S. Are those mentioned in the early part of the chapter regarded as local brothers here?
J.T. I think so. They are in the assembly; not viewed as visitors, but viewed as in "the assembly which was there".
F.L. It is very interesting to see all through the Acts the way in which what is official is recognized along with what is distinctly on moral lines. Stephen and Philip were not introduced in any official way; and so Paul. All is on moral lines and there is no jealousy about it, no protest. I think there is nothing more beautiful than to see the way in which the service was adjusted and carried on.
J.T. The Scriptures present the things that occurred and they are allowed to speak for themselves. Barnabas went himself and brought Saul from Tarsus and both laboured together for a year in the assembly at Antioch, and Saul is the last man mentioned in the list of servants.
R.S.S. It does not say, 'Separate Me Barnabas, Saul and John'. They had John to their minister, and he got discouraged and gave up, and, as we read afterwards, left the work, chapter 15: 38. Have you any comment
to make on that? He was not especially appointed by the Spirit to accompany them.
J.T. I think he represents an element that falls in with the testimony, and circumstances test it. It was right that he should be there, but circumstances tested him. What is to be noticed is that his departure came in after we have the expression, "Paul and his company". It was that company he left. If it had been Barnabas and his company, I dare say he would have stayed.
J.D. Which would you prefer -- Joab or Jonathan?
J.T. I would certainly attach more moral importance to Jonathan. I think he had genuine affection for David, whereas I do not think Joab had. Jonathan was largely governed by natural considerations, and was outwardly on the wrong side, but he loved David; Joab was an ambitious, clever man, although on David's side. He had no moral worth.
F.L. We have them at all times -- men who have intelligence without spirituality. Sooner or later they make shipwreck of themselves and those affected by them. Ability that is not controlled by affection to the Lord is a very dangerous thing.
J.T. Yes, indeed. Jonathan has spiritual initiative. I mean, he "wrought with God". He had no direct commission, but he sees an opportunity (under most difficult circumstances, too) and he wrought with God, 1 Samuel 14:45. Afterwards he manifested his appreciation of David.
J.B. Is that not the point with regard to these five ministering to the Lord? They took the Lord into consideration, exercising priestly functions; and the Lord could take two of those and they could be trusted with this great service, would you say?
J.T. Just so. So the fact that Barnabas heads the list and Saul ends it opens up an extremely interesting point. That is, the change from Barnabas and Saul, to Paul and Barnabas. It is the adjustment in this chain of
circumstances (by the Lord's skilful hand, through the priestly discernment of the saints) that becomes intensely interesting, and that is what we get here. I am very doubtful if Barnabas stood the test fully.
A.F.M. It is another phase of difficulty that we have to face now, is it not?
J.T. It is a difficulty constantly confronting us; confronting you, and me, and everybody, because the sovereignty of the Lord, or of the Holy Spirit, is ever present, and one can never tell what He will do.
H.G. You feel the sovereignty of the Holy Spirit was along moral lines. The man who was morally the greatest man came to the top, did he not?
H.G. And it would appear in regard to Mark that the position was too much for him. I judge the energy with Paul was much greater than with Barnabas.
W.Bs. He came under a changed name.
J.T. Yes, and you will notice it says "Who also is Paul" -- indeed the word "is" is not there even. It is "Who also Paul". It may refer to the apostle's estimate of himself.
A.F.M. You are not surprised at what follows, are you? "But Saul, who also Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit", verse 9. There is correspondence between his name and this fact.
H.G. Does the blinding of this man, this sorcerer, suggest the judicial blindness of the nation of Israel and Paul coming out in his particular work in regard to the nations?
J.T. He described him fully and says, "Behold, the Lord's hand is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season" -- for a season. It is a judicial pronouncement, I judge, of the state of the Jews. They are not to see the sun for a season -- it is not for ever.
A.F.M. The Sun of righteousness will arise for them by and by, with healing in His wings.
J.T. Yes. What Israel seeks for he has not obtained.
F.L. "God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; unto this day". But it is not death. The suggestion is that after a season the eyes will be opened.
J.T. The veil is on their heart, "When it shall turn to the Lord the veil shall be taken away", 2 Corinthians 3:16.
J.D. According to what you have been saying as to Paul coming in on the line of construction, it is important to notice that when the proconsul desires to hear the word of God he sends for Barnabas and Saul, and the sorcerer opposes Barnabas and Saul, but it was Saul who pronounced the judgment. He comes to the front in a way to detect evil and pronounce judgment. While he is constructive, he sets aside in principle, with one stroke the whole Jewish system. Then it seems to me he can proceed on the lines of construction. In his own soul he had come to the end of Judaism in the destruction of the sorcerer.
W.E. Would you say in that way he is exercising his gift as a prophet, in order that he may go on to his gift as teacher?
J.D. I believe that. There is something deep in it, to my mind. It seems to me that in the change of this man's name to Paul he has an insight to the whole heavenly system now. What brings him to the front, it seems, is his ability to detect evil and set it aside, so that he can go on with the building. I think the principle is true today.
H.G. As a matter of fact in the sermon that Paul preaches in regard to the Lord Jesus, he speaks of His burial, which Peter does not. Peter never leaves out resurrection, of course, but Paul mentions burial. In that sense he clears the ground of any material that could not be used for construction. It is very much as you have spoken in regard to 1 Corinthians 3. Paul was a wise master-builder, or architect; he clears the ground in
1 Corinthians 1 by introducing Jesus Christ crucified, and then he says, "Of him are ye in Christ Jesus" -- suggesting, I suppose, the material for the building.
J.D. The prohibition of light is a most serious thing. That is what Paul charged this man with when he says: "O full of all deceit and all craft, son of the devil, enemy of all righteousness; wilt thou not cease perverting the right paths of the Lord?" So it is evident that a new line is to be taken and the ground is being cleared for it. Paul's soul is filled with it.
J.T. And so the importance of what has been remarked -- "Saul, who also is Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit" -- that was the vessel; one that could be filled with the Holy Spirit.
J.D. Would you judge that his moral training had been completed in Arabia?
J.T. I have no doubt that it had, although, of course, it would be continuous. It is very interesting to see the steps in Paul's training. Before he went to Arabia it says that, after his eyes were opened, "straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he saw, and rising up was baptized; and, having received food, got strength". These are the facts and then it says, "And he was with the disciples who were in Damascus certain days", with them. Then it says, "And straightway in the synagogues he preached Jesus that he is the Son of God" Acts 9:18 - 20; but before he preached he was with the disciples certain days. That was the kind of training that he began with. He learned what it was to be with the saints before he took up service. And then it says, "But Saul increased the more in power, and confounded the Jews who dwelt in Damascus, proving that this is the Christ. Now when many days were fulfilled, the Jews consulted together to kill him. But their plot became known to Saul. And they watched also the gates both day and night, that they might kill him; but the disciples took him by night and let him down through the wall,
lowering him in a basket. And having arrived at Jerusalem he essayed to join himself to the disciples", Acts 9:22 - 26. That was the way he looked at things. It was not his service first. It was the disciples first. He wanted to be one of them practically.
J.D. Not simply believers; it is the forming of moral character -- disciples.
J.T. At Jerusalem "all were afraid of him, not believing that he was a disciple", but he was a disciple. "But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles, and related to them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had spoken boldly in the name of Jesus. And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem". And then it says, "and speaking boldly in the name of the Lord. And he spoke and discussed with the Hellenists; but they sought to kill him. And the brethren knowing it, brought him down to Caesarea and sent him away to Tarsus". Now that is the course he went through before he went to Tarsus. What he went through there is not for us to conjecture, but undoubtedly he went through much.
J.D. I believe there is a moral Arabia for every man that is to be used of God. He has his three years in Arabia.
R.S.S. And when was he in Arabia the three years?
J.D. After he had been with the disciples. Possibly he carried with him, to isolation, all the effects of his conversations and life with the disciples. Now with us, I believe our character is formed with the brethren we associate with, but we have our Arabia concurrently.
R.S.S. Was he in Arabia, do you think, before or after his being at Tarsus?
W.Bs. In Galatians we get the order of events. God was pleased to reveal His Son in him -- that is, at Damascus. Afterwards he went to Arabia. I judge this was prior to his going to Jerusalem.
J.T. The statement in the epistle to the Galatians is, "But when God, who set me apart even from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me, that I may announce him as glad tidings among the nations, immediately I took not counsel with flesh and blood, nor went I up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and again returned to Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem".
F.L. What one notices with a great deal of admiration is that while Paul had the revelation, the light of God concerning His intentions, mentioning him as a vessel of distinction, when it comes to the actual putting of things into practice he assumes nothing; but goes on in the line of simple levitical service; and as he develops moral characteristics, the Lord puts His seal upon that and brings him out into his singular glory, his unique place as the vessel of the testimony. I think that is greatly to be admired. I was thinking that it is very easy for us to be jealous (just speaking perfectly plainly), but in the sphere of God there is no room for jealousy. I remember Mr. Raven emphasizing that, when the Lord was introduced into the world, the first to acclaim Him were the angels, although they were to lose their place of superiority; they were to be lower than man; but there is no jealousy about it, and so through the whole line of what we are following here everything is brought in in such exquisite moral beauty. There is no place for jealousy, and Paul himself, filled as he is as the vessel of the testimony, waits. He is patient and the Lord opens the way for him. I am sure there is a lot in that.
J.D. Do you not think that the forming of the character (forming of character is a great thing) of Paul was through the men he companied with? He saw Christ in them morally. He heard the words of the Lord from the glory, "Why persecutest thou me?" and when he comes in amongst them he finds the "me" in moral
characteristics, and begins to take on the character himself in the power of the Holy Spirit.
J.T. It is very interesting here that attention is called to the company -- "Paul and his company". In 2 Timothy we see how that company was reduced, but it is there, as you remarked. "Luke alone is with me;" an examination of his gospel shows how fully Luke was with Paul, and how one would love to be in the last days in that company.
J.D. Yes, you remarked in prayer about those who sailed with us. I thought for myself I would like to sail with Paul, "God hath given thee all them that sail with thee".
R.S.S. Do you not think Luke was with him in the shipwreck?
J.D. Yes; that word to him on the stormy voyage of the testimony through this world was wonderful: "God hath given thee all them that sail with thee". It is a great point to sail with Paul.
J.S. Giving it a present moral application is very helpful.
J.T. Especially as they all get to land in spite of the shipwreck.
Ques. Do you think that is where the Ephesians came short, because they did not sail with Paul?
J.D. They would have been numbered amongst those in Asia that had forsaken him.
F.L. Luke identified himself in the voyage very clearly: "when it had been determined that we should sail to Italy;" and "when we got safe to land".
J.T. And getting safe to land is not exactly being translated to heaven; it is arriving on solid footing now in the apprehension of the purpose of God.
J.D. I do not know that you will go with it, but I was saying the other day that that passage in Ephesians is not a point of time: "That we should be holy and
without blame before him in love". It is a moral consummation, to be reached now.
J.T. Just so. As regards the company, it is very remarkable that the Holy Spirit should set it down this way immediately in connection with the departure of John; as if to call special attention now to Paul. The ground is now occupied by Paul and his company. There is thus room made for the full unfolding of the mystery.
W.E. And do you not think there is indicated to us in Paul and his company the smallness of things publicly that must characterize us to the close? That is, one is struck first of all with the fact that the name is changed from Saul to Paul, before the company comes into view.
G.A.T. Does Paul's company include all christians, or does it indicate a certain state of soul?
J.T. I think the best way to arrive at it now is by 2 Timothy. Of course it was a large company at one time. Compare chapters 18 and 19.
J.B. John Mark had the opportunity to continue but he separated from this company.
J.T. Quite so. The gospel of John is a sort of winnowing gospel. It removes the chaff and leaves only what is real, so that there can be no doubt that John in that way supports Paul, as it has often been remarked. It preserves the Pauline company. "Will ye also go away?" the Lord says. And why were they going away? Because the words that He spoke were spirit and life. And Peter comes forward and says, "Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast words of life eternal; and we have believed and known that thou art the holy one of God;" so John would help in that way to bring the light of God that would uphold Paul's doctrine. Mr. Darby said, 'Do not forget John, but cleave to Paul', and I believe that is a word for us. The testimony of Paul is to be cleaved to if we are to be saved. We must listen to Paul.
Rem. The company in that way would be distinctly on moral lines.
J.D. And you might add would be distinguished by moral features. The company is the company by moral features, for there is no other company.
F.L. Hence the gravity of John Mark's departure to go back to Jerusalem. He was not only separated from the company, but he was going back to that which for the time being the Spirit of God was preparing to leave in the new departure, so that the moral significance of his step becomes emphasized when we see the moral significance of Paul and his company.
W.E. Would you say that in that way John Mark indicates a sympathy with Jerusalem rather than with Antioch?
F.L. It indicates a certain state. We have been trying to get the present day application of these things, and if we see certain lines along which the Spirit of God is helping us, well now the test of those things comes home. Some turn back into natural things or even go further. Thus their state of soul is exposed. The meetings that we are having now, I take it, are intended to raise questions and exercises in that way. It is very interesting to see what marked Paul and his company, but what about ourselves?
J.D. I was thinking of your reference to Luke as having companied with Paul, and his gospel being a testimony to this. To him Paul's ministry must have set forth the meat-offering.
J.T. Yes. John returned to Jerusalem, it says, and the sad word is used "separated from them". This makes his defection more serious, for it indicates his mind as regards the company to which attention is called. It puts it in a clear light. The Holy Spirit does not say he was wrong in doing it; it is for us to see. But then it says, "They, passing through" -- they go on, the testimony moves notwithstanding defections, "But they, passing through from Perga, came to Antioch of Pisidia; and entering into the synagogue on the sabbath day they sat down".
I would just call attention to this, because, in passing on, the true levitical instinct comes to light. He goes into the synagogue and awaits his opportunity to speak. So he sits down there, and presently, "after the reading of the law and the prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, Brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation to the people, speak", It is what one would call levitical wisdom -- waiting for your opportunity.
F.L. How beautifully he reflects the manner and spirit of Christ. The Lord in going into the synagogue on the sabbath day, as His custom was, there was given to Him the roll of the prophet Isaiah. There was thus a marked correspondence between the servant and his Master.
G.A.T. What Paul does here is a little on the line of what is now objected to, going into the synagogues about us.
J.T. God had not as yet cast off the Jews. It was the grace of Christ warning them; but the lesson to be learned from this action of Paul and Barnabas is that we wait for open doors. We are in our own circle; we know how things are and know who is in charge, but evangelical work is outside and we have to recognize the conditions that may exist there. I mean what the government of God may allow. Here the rulers of the synagogue were recognized.
G.A.T. That does not give me the liberty to go where I please, does it?
J.T. Then what you see is they wait on their opportunity. That is a great feature of levitical work, to be subject, wait on your opportunity.
J.D. Paul could have told these men of his vision and that the whole Jewish system was being set aside, but he waits on God and He opened the door for him. Like Eliezer (Genesis 24) he is "in the way" and waits for his opportunity. He would have been at a disadvantage if he had stood up before.
R.S.S. It is rather remarkable that the ruler of the synagogue says, "Brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation to the people, speak". But in Paul's beautiful address there is not a word of exhortation, because the thought of exhortation is that you stir up what is already there, but, as you say, there was very little for God there. On the other hand, instead of exhorting them he really presents God in a most marvellous way.
J.D. Yes, and I was thinking that if you and I travel with Paul and his company the Holy Spirit will make opportunities for us; because Paul and his company in a sense are here yet.
J.T. The levitical skill shown by the apostle's manner here is very noteworthy: first in the way in which he comported himself so as not to prejudice his position; then he is requested to speak, and in what he said we have an illustration of how he was "made all things to all men". Instead of antagonizing them in any way, he addresses them on the lines of the promises, and their privileges, saying, "Israelites, and ye that fear God, hearken". He knew very well what was there as regards the flesh, but he trusted in another element -- that the fear of God was there. You see the result now, in the end of the chapter, of Paul's service. The Holy Spirit always brings in the result of divine movement. It says, "The disciples were filled with joy and the Holy Spirit". What a result that was!
W.Bs. Why take up that name "Israelites" here?
J.T. It had a spiritual significance, involving privilege, "The God of this people Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people in their sojourn in the land of Egypt, and with a high arm brought them out of it". It is a very consistent presentation of the book of Exodus, and it would all encourage them to listen to him, because he was accrediting them with being the same people.
F.L. It was the breaking of the power of the world-system
which was now holding them, in view of the introduction of a new system. Here, in a very honest way, he goes right to the very kernel: a people was hatched, so to speak, in a day, and came out in deliverance from the world-system.
J.T. If you compare this with Stephen's speech you will see a noticeable contrast. Stephen states the things that were against them; they were stiffnecked; they always resisted the Holy Spirit, their fathers and themselves; but this is presented, like Luke's gospel, from the bright side so as to encourage attention and interest.
R.S.S. From the grace side. It is all about what God did. God did so and so, but Stephen was addressing their consciences and really indicting them.
G.W.H. In regard to the pathway of Paul, do you think he got the light of counsel in the third heavens?
J.T. No. I think all he got in the way of revelation for the saints was by the Spirit. That is what I understand. What he heard in the third heavens he says was unutterable.
W.H.F. Was he not sovereignly chosen as a vessel?
J.T. Oh, yes. "Things which eye has not seen, and ear not heard, and which have not come into man's heart, which God has prepared for them that love him, but God has revealed to us by his Spirit". I think he refers there to how things came to him.
W.H.F. It was plain that he was distinctly called in connection with the counsel of God to unfold the mystery of the church.
R.S.S. What was the great gain in connection with what our brother spoke of?
J.T. Confirmation for his own soul.
G.W.H. Was it confirmation for himself? Had he the light of counsel before this?
J.T. Yes, what he heard in the third heavens was confirmatory.
G.W.H. Would you say the third heavens is open to all saints?
J.T. Yes, in a sense. It is "a man in Christ" here, not an apostle. He did not go up to paradise as an apostle, although it would help him in apostolic labours, but it was as a man in Christ. He spoke of the event as occurring fourteen years before, so that it was evidently rare.
R.S.S. Perhaps you might give us a few words on this chapter.
J.T. Well, it affords a further evidence of the levitical skill with which the apostle carried on his labours, inasmuch as it gives us an example of his manner in speaking to Gentiles; the 13th chapter shows how he spoke to Jews. Verse 15 says -- "Men, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, preaching to you to turn from these vanities to the living God, who made the heaven, and the earth, and the sea, and all things in them; who in the past generations suffered all the nations to go in their own ways, though indeed he did not leave himself without witness, doing good, and giving to you from heaven rain and fruitful seasons, filling your hearts with food and gladness". That is an example of how he preached to the Gentiles. Taking both together we have examples of how he became all things to all men, that he might gain the more. To the Jews he became a Jew, but to the Gentiles he did not become a Gentile, but he spoke as a man. He was a man as they were, so that he begins, "We also are men of like passions with you".
F.L. You see the same example in Athens when he came to that city and saw it given over to demon worship, which I suppose was the sort of idolatry which involved that the things of nature were deified. Paul speaks of the altar "To the unknown God". He says, "Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you", And then he proceeds as a man: "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God". And then he brings in the new order of Man in the new sphere as God's answer to that -- Jesus and the resurrection.
J.T. That is quite confirmatory of what we have here and it helps practically as showing how levitical service is carried on: you take account of those to whom you minister and seek to get their point of view and go with it as far as you can legitimately.
A.F.M. So whether it is in the synagogue amongst the Jews, or here amongst the heathen, he is guided by what he finds by spiritual wisdom, and here it is creation he bases his thoughts upon; he comes down to the creation itself so as to help them.
J.T. We can go a considerable way with any class of men. There are some things that we have in common with all.
F.L. Luke enlarges on that line in connecting the genealogy of the Lord with Adam. So that, as you say, with any class of men we have some things in common, but then there comes the divergent point.
J.T. Luke is specially evangelistic. If you compare him with Matthew, you will find that Matthew in no way attempts to conciliate the Jew or meet his prejudices. On the contrary, he approaches the subject in such wise as to rebuke, convict and set aside the Jew. He begins with Jerusalem under the influence of Herod, who had a murderous spirit and ends with Jesus, not ascending from the Mount of Olives or Jerusalem, but in Galilee communicating with the twelve, sending them out to the nations. That is, he disregards Jerusalem and all that it stood for throughout: whereas Luke begins with Jerusalem, not as under the domination of a murderous king, but as having a priest serving before God in His temple, whose wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and they were blameless. Zacharias is seen ministering in the temple at the golden altar before God and receiving communications there. The Jew is thus encouraged, his cherished institution being recognized. There is nothing to arouse opposition or resentment in the manner in which Luke presents the gospel, and so he ends his
narrative with this, that repentance and remission of sins must be preached among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem: and He leaves the city and goes out to Bethany, and ascends to heaven, and the disciples return to Jerusalem, to the temple, praising and blessing God. So Luke is pre-eminently evangelical. He does not excite opposition. He approaches the Jews in the spirit of conciliation and I believe this is a feature in evangelisation. If we are to gain men, we must go with them as far as we can legitimately, not further.
J.D. What you are saying about the gospel of Luke shows that the moral link between heaven and earth is preserved there. Regarding what we have been referring to here, would you be free to say this is a Levite carrying the ark of the covenant from place to place? What I mean is that the covenant is found in a Man, and Paul was in keeping with it.
J.T. Yes. I have no doubt that you get the priestly and levitical features together in Paul. That is, the priest took care of the ark -- it was to be covered before carried. It referred to the person of Christ; but still it is carried, and I have no doubt, as you say, we see it here; that is, the testimony to Christ in the gospel.
J.D. I was thinking of the word of reconciliation, that, just as we heard last night in regard to the covenant, it was committed to Paul. New creation was involved. Reconciliation had been effected in Paul and he went about as the setting forth of new creation. The word of it was there and the accomplishment of reconciliation was in that man.
J.T. He exemplified what he preached, you mean?
H.G. And it would seem as though there was something very living with Paul at this juncture, because he refers to these three cities in 2 Timothy in connection with persecution -- Antioch, Iconium and Lystra. Things are apparently going from bad to worse as regards the
persecution. At Antioch they expel him, at Iconium they attempt to stone him, and at Lystra they do it.
F.L. As to bearing the ark of the testimony, it may not be so apparent how it could be applied at the present time in connection with evangelisation. Wherever you preach, Christ in a way is known: He has been already presented. Paul and Barnabas, and Silas had that which was unique; they preached Christ where He was never heard of. And therefore, in a very peculiar way, it seems to me, they were the bearers of the ark of the testimony, and it was an immense privilege. Paul was never diverted from that path, no matter what he met in it.
H.G. I was thinking of that. It would show the imperishable character of the testimony. We read about James being beheaded and Peter left; but it does not matter if I am cut off and you left, or I am left and you cut off, the thing is maintained livingly.
J.T. The Acts presents the movements of the tent of testimony. In this the whole levitical company was employed: each had his own part to bear. I have no doubt that in the testimony of Paul we get the full answer to these things. Indeed it becomes more emphatic after Barnabas leaves him. Chapter 15 is the end of a period. You have after this chapter the introduction of the gospel into Europe. You have Philippi, Thessalonica, Athens, Corinth and then again he goes back to Asia and completes the full counsel, or mind of God in the structure he rears up at Ephesus.
F.L. I was going to say in that connection that wherever an assembly was formed the tabernacle was there in principle. Not alone the ark, but the tabernacle is in view also.
J.T. Quite; Ecclesiastes speaks of "masters of assemblies", Paul formed assemblies and these answered locally to the setting up of the tent of the testimony.
H.G. You include the work of the Gershonites as well as of the Kohathites, and they had a heavy part. They had wagons.
C.A.M. So not only the ark, but the altars, the golden altar and the altar of sacrifice, both of these you see in the course of things such as at Philippi.
J.T. As our brother points out, there was first of all the service of the Kohathites. They were particularly entrusted with the holy utensils, the ark and the vessels of the sanctuary; but the Gershonites and Merarites had also their parts to carry, and I have no doubt that you see it all here.
F.L. Not forgetting the priestly family.
J.T. They are particularly brought in in this section as regulating the Levites. I think that is the way it stands, because Numbers is the levitical book. Leviticus is strictly the priestly book.
A.F.M. When you speak of the priests being brought in as regulating the Levites you refer to what we had this morning where "The Holy Spirit said".
J.T. You get it at Antioch: they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, and it was as they ministered that you have the directions as to Barnabas and Paul -- as it were, Eleazar ordering the service of the Levites, Numbers 3:32. After Numbers 21 you have nothing of the service of the Gershonites or the Merarites. At Jordan it is "the priests the Levites" -- not priests and Levites. It is not any longer a question of the tent of the testimony, but of the ark of the covenant. That is to say, it is a question of Christ personally dealing with death, making a way for us into the presence of God in His own land. We may notice in the end of Acts 14 the beautiful mark of approval on levitical work. In verse 26 it says, "and thence they sailed away to Antioch, whence they had been committed to the grace of God for the work which they had fulfilled. And having arrived,
and having brought together the assembly, they related to them all that God had done with them, and that he had opened a door of faith to the nations. And they stayed no little time with the disciples". I mention that because it is an additional touch by the Spirit as to the effectiveness of levitical service, seen in these devoted men. They go back to the company from whence they had gone out, and they had fulfilled their mission, and then it says that they brought the assembly together and related to them all that God had done with them, and that He had opened a door of faith to the nations. And then "They stayed no little time with the disciples".
J.S. Would you mind giving us a little outline of this chapter?
J.T. It has its own place in the teaching of the book showing how God preserved, at the beginning, outward unity among the saints. The seeds of sectional feeling and prejudice had already appeared in the history of the church, chapter 6, which were met in divine wisdom; and now the enemy would corrupt the Gentile believers by erroneous teaching. I think its first appearance is here.
A.F.M. Would you say this chapter is cherubic in character?
J.T. I think it is. I think it is government. The contention was between certain men that came down from Jerusalem and Barnabas and Paul; but then it was decided to refer the matter to the apostles and elders, showing the wisdom that possessed the saints at Antioch; that is, the recognition of the authority that existed and still acted with God in Jerusalem. The result was that the truth was preserved and the brethren with it.
W.Bs. In the 14th and 15th chapters you have the two elements that have been in the world from the first: in the 14th more the character of violence and persecution, in the 15th corruption. These two elements always go together. The corrupting element is more inside. False teaching generally arises within, does it not? It is more destructive than the persecution outside.
J.T. Quite so. You will notice in the history of the churches that evil teaching comes in in the third, in Pergamos, "the doctrine of Balaam", and "the doctrine of Nicolaitanes;" and then in Thyatira you have a prophetess, one professing to speak for God. She teaches the Lord's servants to eat idol sacrifices and commit fornication. She taught that. When a thing takes the form of teaching, if erroneous, it becomes
corruptive. Persecution, which was from without, was seen in Smyrna. But the wisdom with which the thing is met here is to be noticed. The chapter suggests what is cherubic, as our brother suggests; that is, the authority of God vested in the apostles.
W.Bs. Where do you get that now? The same evil things and worse things are current. Where do you get that which protects the saints of God at the present time?
J.T. Well, it would be in that which the Holy Spirit forms. We have no apostles of course, nor appointed elders, but we have the Scriptures, and then there is the voice of the Lord in the addresses to the seven churches, what He says; and the voice of the Spirit. Further, the Holy Spirit forms men so that they have moral weight among the saints.
F.L. If we take the 2nd and 3rd of Revelation, in the words of the Lord we have the concrete presentation of the characters of evil which successively have come in. We are left in no doubt about them and in each case the Lord casts the overcomer upon the Spirit: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches". But it is to be noted that nothing specific is given of what the Spirit would say, so that it is clear we are left until the time and the occasion, then the voice of the Spirit will make itself heard to those that have an ear to hear; but you must be in the line of the testimony to hear what the Spirit is saying in that particular day.
F.L. What He will do will be to give through those who have the prophetic spirit a present application to what is already recorded, making it living and vital for the need of the moment.
W.Bs. It would be through "faithful men".
W.E. In that connection it is instructive that it says, "For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us", verse 28.THE CHARACTER OF THE MANHOOD OF CHRIST
HOW WE ARE LED INTO DIVINE PURPOSE
THE OBJECT OF MINISTRY
ADJUSTMENT IN RELATION TO THE LORD AND EACH OTHER
RESTORATION
PRIESTHOOD
THE LIGHT OF THINGS WE HAVE COME TO
THE EXEMPLIFICATION OF THE TRUTH (1)
THE EXEMPLIFICATION OF THE TRUTH (2)
THE EXEMPLIFICATION OF THE TRUTH (3)
THE EXEMPLIFICATION OF THE TRUTH (4)
THE EXEMPLIFICATION OF THE TRUTH (5)