These Volumes of "Ministry by J. Taylor -- New Series" contain reprints of books now unobtainable in their original form, along with articles which have appeared in periodicals from time to time.
Pages 1 - 78 -- "The Tabernacle of Witness". Indianapolis, January, 1915 (Volume 25).
Exodus 25:10 - 40
J.T. It helps to connect this chapter with Genesis 2 and John 1 and Hebrews 1.
Genesis 2 suggests a moral system. The first chapter is the material, and Adam was to be the centre of the moral system, but he failed in it; so that this chapter supplies in type, Him of whom Adam was but a figure. What it suggests is the durableness of the order of humanity that was seen in Christ, not as yet the outward greatness of it; that is seen in the temple, but the durableness is seen in the ark. What is noticeable in the tabernacle is the smallness of things outwardly, and yet containing what is so infinitely precious; whereas, in the temple things are on a larger scale and the materials, especially the woods used, are different. The wood in the temple is largely cedar, though there are other species of wood, because it is a question of Christ glorified and the Spirit. It is the cedar and the olive. The cedar suggests the greatness and stateliness of things, but the tabernacle links with the Lord's position here. There was lowliness and outward insignificance, but containing the most precious things. Consideration of the ark enables us to arrive at what will endure to the end.
R.S.S. I would like to repeat what was said as to the distinction between Genesis 1 and 2. It is very important. In the first you have what is material, and in the second what is moral. That is, man is introduced, and I suppose everything that is moral is in connection with man.
J.T. The material creation is simply a theatre in which the moral is exhibited. Therefore Genesis 2 is
greater than Genesis 1 according to what is in the mind of God, it presents a moral system centred in man who had the breath of God in him. The moral is introduced in the breath. God breathed into Adam's nostrils. Now the consideration of the ark enables us to see the Man who not only sustains the moral system, but who introduces it.
R.S.S. There was another thought you gave expression to: the distinction between the tabernacle and the temple. That is very helpful.
J.T. Young believers especially are apt to be discouraged because of the smallness of things connected with the testimony of God, whereas they are very great really. The temple-system is the great side, it refers to the time of manifestation. So you have different kinds of wood from that spoken of in the tabernacle; there is olive, which alludes to the Spirit, and cedar, which alludes to the greatness of Christ. The thought of God is that we should be in the light of the greatness of the system when it is manifested. It sustains us in the period of its outward smallness and insignificance.
R.S.S. The shittim wood is in contrast with the cedar.
J.T. Shittim wood was used in the tabernacle. It was not suggestive of conspicuousness. It was very durable, and found, no doubt, in the wilderness.
G.A.T. What you would occupy us with this morning is the quality of the wood.
J.T. Yes. There was nothing great in the Lord's appearance outwardly; nor should there be in our appearance. It was never intended that Christianity should be anything but insignificant in this world outwardly.
A.F.M. What is the connection between what you have advanced and John 1 and Hebrews 1?
J.T. In Hebrews 1:2 you have "by whom also he made the worlds". That was written to Hebrew
Christians. It was by Christ that the worlds were made; and then, "upholding all things by the word of his power". Hebrews 1:3. These statements refer to what is material, but what was in the divine mind was that there should be a point of sympathy between Christ and all the things that He upholds. In the material system there is no sympathy; the bodies in the universe are material; they are inanimate things. The moral system is composed of living things, hence you get in the tabernacle a point of sympathy between all the elements and the ark, so that the moral system is affected inwardly. In John 1 the Lord is set before us as the One who gives impulse to things, like the sun. He sets things in movement, not now by external pressure, but by internal influence. John looked on Jesus as He walked. That is the idea. There is movement. First, he sees Him coming to him, and says, "Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world". John 1:29. Then he sees Him walking, and he says, "Behold the Lamb of God!" John 1:36. And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus. They were set in movement.
R.S.S. Is that characteristic of the whole of the gospel of John?
M.L.H. The two who went with Him were supporting the testimony.
J.T. They were set in movement by Christ. John's testimony to Christ directed their hearts to Him, and they followed. No other movement is of any account except what the Lord Jesus effects.
W.B-t. You have the ark in your mind, have you not, when speaking of the impulse?
W.B-s. So the ark occupies the first and central position.
J.T. It is that which is in the mind of God as the
means by which everything is effected, hence the importance of considering it, and the material of which it is formed.
W.B-t. Is your thought that the present time compares with the tabernacle system of things rather than the temple?
J.T. Yes. Of course we are in the light of the temple system, but it never was the divine intent that there should be anything conspicuous attaching to the position of the testimony here. A man bound with a chain is not outwardly great.
J.L.J. When you speak of the greatness of the temple system, is it outward greatness?
J.T. It is that. You find the scale is enlarged in Solomon's temple.
J.L.J. So if we take account of the temple system, it puts us in the light of the kingdom.
J.T. And you are content to be small here, because after all, we are connected with the greatest things.
R.S.S. "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation". Luke 17:20.
E.H.T. Why is the size of the ark given?
J.T. You can understand the Spirit of God would give us the dimensions; but they are dimensions that we must understand spiritually.
A.F.M. Is it not remarkable that when you come to the temple, there is no enlargement in the size of the ark? It is the same ark right through.
J.T. Yes. It may be called by different names, the ark of the testimony, the ark of the covenant, the ark of God, and of Jehovah, but it is the same ark.
R.S.S. What is the distinction between "the ark of the covenant", "the ark of the testimony", and "the ark of God"?
J.T. So far as I understand, the word testimony is not found till you find it in connection with the ark. The word covenant is found. It appears in
Genesis 6. A covenant is an agreement between two parties; that made with Israel we find in Exodus 19 and 20. The covenant becomes a testimony on the part of God; that is to say, the tables represent that His will must prevail in the universe. Therefore, they became a testimony to Him (compare Psalm 19) and were treasured up in the ark. At the same time there was also a covenant, so that you have both expressions, "the ark of the covenant" and the "ark of the testimony".
R.S.S. The two tables were both a covenant and a testimony.
J.L.J. Would you say the ark of the covenant is more connected with purpose? The ark of the covenant stood in the midst of the Jordan till all the people passed over.
J.T. I think the covenant, typically at least, speaks of the heart of God, and of what He had in His mind for the people, and therefore you can understand it in Jordan, because it was a question of God giving effect to what He had promised. But there is always a standing witness to God,
W.L.P. What does the testimony speak of?
J.T. The covenant supposes others; objects for God's heart, but the testimony has Himself only in view. It is His testimony. You will find in Samuel it is almost invariably the ark of God or the ark of Jehovah. There was departure, and the rights of God were involved. It was His witness.
W.E. You spoke of the ark being a small thing as far as the exterior is concerned. Has it not been the mind of God from the beginning that so far as His testimony has been concerned, it has always been presented in that which was insignificant?
J.T. Of course you have David and Solomon, but when you come to Christ personally here, from the very outset He was that, and His own parable of the kingdom of God speaks of it as the least of all things,
the mustard-seed, and He never intended it to be anything but that.
G.A.T. His coming as a Babe was small.
J.T. I was thinking of that. We are apt to become dissatisfied because things are small as compared with what exists around us. A cathedral is the opposite of Christianity. We are all apt to look for large numbers. If God gives them, you accept them, but the divine idea is in the Lord's parable of the mustard-seed; it is the smallest thing outwardly. Of course you have the other side in 1 Kings, and the different woods that are used point to magnificence.
R.S.S. But it is just what you were saying, it is moral greatness. There could not be anything more morally great than what is set forth in the tabernacle.
J.T. When the Spirit of God came from heaven, they were talking about great things. They were saying, "we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God". Acts 2:11. The coming of the Spirit brought the testimony of the coming greatness, and so the Lord said to Nathanael, "thou shalt see greater things than these". John 1:50. They are all ahead of us. It is only a question of waiting for them, but in the meantime we have to accept the outward reproach and insignificance.
E.H.T. When the Lord came as the Babe in the manger, does not the very thought of His habitation indicate smallness?
J.T. The angels were in the light of the greatness of the occurrence. The chapter in Luke speaks about the census being made, and it suggests that Augustus was thinking of his own greatness, in having the number counted. Now the Babe is born under such circumstances and the angels are in the full light of the greatness of that event. The census was of no account to them. The census made in heaven would be of account to them; in fact there is such a thing as that.
R.S.S. In that same gospel we are to rejoice that our names are written in heaven.
J.T. The men that God has good pleasure in are not the men that Augustus took account of. The men that God will have pleasure in are to be like Christ. They are to come in on that line. It is on the line of littleness and humility. These are the kind of men that God will have good pleasure in. Hence the importance of taking account of the ark, because all that is to follow in the tabernacle is to be in accord with it.
B.T.F. You spoke of the ark in connection with the tabernacle. You connect that with the wilderness journey, but when you speak of the temple, you speak of that which is when the purpose of God is established.
J.T. Yes. The temple may be regarded as typifying the glorification of Christ and the gift of the Spirit; that is for faith. Peter's address on the day of Pentecost, points to the greatness of Christ. God had made Him Lord and Christ; that is the cedar. Then the olive-wood no doubt alluded to the Spirit. But then the temple system also refers to the coming day of display when all these things will be unveiled.
W.B-t. It is interesting to notice that Solomon in sending to Hiram speaks of the greatness of the house he would build, 2 Chronicles 2:9. I like the point you have made.
J.T. It is very clear that there is divine greatness connected with Christ and we have part in it, but for the moment we want to see the durable character of His humanity, so that we may be in accord with it.
R.S.S. Is that expressed in the durable character of the wood in the tabernacle?
J.T. That is the point I think, and the boards were made of the same wood; in fact it is the only wood used in the tabernacle. So that it suggests
what God is using now for the maintenance of His testimony. God began with Christ and there was no breakdown. The Lord went right through. You take up His path. The disciples were amazed to see Him going deliberately down to the cross, and it comes out more particularly in the garden of Gethsemane. He began with "Lo, I come to do thy will" Hebrews 10:9 and He ended with that "not my will, but thine, be done". Luke 22:42. Now the question is not only how we begin, but how are we going to end?
J.L.J. Our endurance depends on our apprehending Christ in this light, and appreciating Him.
J.T. I think so. We often attempt to go in for the cedar too soon. The Corinthians did that. They reigned before the time. Very often you begin by simply submitting to the will of God, but how long does that continue? If you go on that line, you will never be conspicuous in man's eye.
A.F.M. In regard to the Lord, would you say that the testing through which He passed up to the baptism in Jordan, reached the point where the gold was introduced? You have referred to the sufferings of Gethsemane, but was there not the mark of durability about Him prior to that, which would enable Him to support the antitype of the gold?
J.T. The thirty years of His private life came under God's eye. He was about His Father's business. He never deviated one hair's breadth from the divine will. "I was cast upon thee from the womb". Psalm 22:10. God was before Him. Now the end of that course was the fulfilment of all righteousness. That is the kind of a man on which to put the gold. He comes out of the water at His baptism and is praying, and the heavens proclaim their delight in Him. And then you have the gift of the Spirit in connection with that, which is, in a sense, the gold; that God has committed Himself formally to that Man. I speak with reverence, but that is true. He did not
do it when Christ was born; there is no anointing with the Spirit then. It was when He was thirty years of age. God anointing the Man, commits Himself to Him.
W.B-s. The ark is on the line of reproach, what the Lord was in His lowly life here.
J.T. That is the idea. The wood is seen in the thirty years of His private life. Think of the Lord Jesus, with all the light of God in His heart, working as the carpenter! He was quite content to be in that obscure position where He was for the divine pleasure.
W.L.P. Then He was always the ark from the beginning.
J.T. He was always as to His humanity, but it is when God commits Himself to Him that it becomes evident. It was as if God said 'This is the Man that is going to do all My pleasure'. Another beautiful trait comes out in Christ after the descent of the Spirit; it is said that "he was led by the Spirit in the wilderness" Luke 4:1 meaning that the Lord recognised the Spirit. He gave place to the Spirit. That is another mark of the kind of humanity that you see in Christ.
E.H.T. When He was anointed, He was seen as the ark of the testimony.
J.T. Yes. He stands up and says, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me". Luke 4:18. That was the ground He took in speaking, His credentials, as it were. The Spirit was manifestly upon Him. The Lord did not undertake His service simply because He was born here as God's Son, but because He was anointed. "He hath anointed me to preach the gospel". Luke 4:18.
W.B-t. I do not quite understand. Is your thought that the anointing of Jesus and the overlaying of the ark with pure gold, are the same thought?
J.T. In this sense, that in Luke God is seen Himself.
The testimony of Peter was, "he went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil, for God was with him". Acts 10:38. God was there in Christ. That really suggests the veil also. The veil is not merely that God was concealed behind it, but God was known to be there, although not yet manifested.
R.S.S. How? By what the veil was made of?
J.T. You may have something concealed in your mind that I know nothing about at all. On the other hand, I may know that you have something in your mind, but I do not know what that something is. Now it is the latter that is suggested in the veil. God is known to be there, but as yet, He is not known. That is what marked Christ. It was known that God was there, but He was not known till Christ died. For instance, Nicodemus recognised that "no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him" John 3:2; but then Nicodemus did not presume to know God. It was said, "that God hath visited his people", Luke 7:16.
W.B-s. Why is it that the tabernacle was anointed with oil and the temple never was? Everything in the tabernacle was anointed.
J.T. I think because of what we were saying, that you get the anointing in connection with testimony in Christ and at Pentecost. At Pentecost it says the Spirit sat upon each of them. It is what is external. The idea in the anointing is that you are not seen, but God is seen; but the day is coming when you will be seen.
R.S.S. When the temple comes, it is display, not exactly testimony.
W.B-s. Does not the tabernacle go on to the thought that everything will be pervaded by the Spirit?
J.T. Everything will be pervaded by the power of the Spirit, but the anointing of the tabernacle refers rather to the present time.
D.R. We have great encouragement in being identified with the testimony, although it puts one in insignificance in the world; but you become great before God.
J.T. The desire to be great is very present, alas, with most Christians. In Acts 8 it is said that Simon the sorcerer gave out himself to be some great one. But he saw he was eclipsed. He believed through Philip's preaching, but evidently with a sinister motive, he wanted to come into what was gaining the day, what was in prominence. He wanted the power to give the Spirit. That would give him a greatness he never had before.
G.A.T. You would like to get a larger company, but still you can go on with a small company.
J.T. That is a great thing to cultivate.
W.C.R. The Lord found the treasure and went and hid it; that is, what He was going to establish was, in a sense, to be hidden from the view of the world.
M.L.H. And the conspicuousness of the tree, and that which was connected with the leaven, brought in the corruption.
J.T. You may depend upon it, if there is an endeavour to be something, that corruption will set in at once, because the Spirit of God will not support that, hence you must look somewhere else for support. You will probably make an alliance with another brother to support your greatness; that is corruption. Any kind of thing that you refer to for the support of what is great in the world is corrupt. I think the consideration of the ark helps us as we trace the Lord's path in the gospels. How uniformly content He was with the place men gave Him. He never tried to alter it. He simply accepted it, and the divine support is always seen there. You will always find it when you accept the reproach that men are pleased to give you, and it is very remarkable
that the closing letters of Paul to the assembly are from Rome, when he was in the greatest reproach. You might say, 'Were I in Rome, I would certainly seek Paul out', but would you? I do not think we have any idea of the pressure and reproach that attached to him there, and hence the reference to Onesiphorus, that he sought him out very diligently and found him, and was not ashamed of his chain. Now that is how things are left pretty much to us. The vessel of the testimony was in chains. The injunction was "Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner". 2 Timothy 1:8.
P.L. Do you get that idea in the prophet's language, "I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet's son; but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycamore fruit", Amos 7:14. How unseemly it would be to assume the name of a teacher or evangelist.
J.T. You dread those things. One is afraid of assuming to be anything, an evangelist, etc. It is better to leave these things to speak for themselves.
E.H.T. Would you say it is reproach alone that tests the durability of the wood? Durability is seen as one takes the reproach of the Nazarene.
J.T. I think that John the baptist becomes a model for us, if we have to give an account of ourselves, and sometimes you have to; the Lord had to. "Who art thou?" The Lord said, "altogether that which I also say to you". John 8:25. John the baptist said that he was simply a voice. Of course we are something, and in the assembly what you are comes to light. "By the grace of God", Paul says, "I am what I am". 1 Corinthians 15:10.
J.T. What characterised the Lord Jesus was that He loved righteousness and hated lawlessness. That marked His pathway here.
A.B. In Hebrews 11 there are five things that the Spirit says about Moses:
First, he refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter.
Second, he chose to suffer affliction with the people of God.
Third, he esteemed the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt.
Fourth, he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king.
Fifth, he kept the passover. I believe that is God's order.
G.A.T. Will you say a word as to how the shittim wood applies to us?
J.T. I think it applies in a very practical way as to our continuance in the maintenance of our local responsibility, or whatever our responsibility may be. We are apt to go on for a time and make a good showing, but the Lord says that "he that endures to the end shall be saved". Matthew 10:22. That is where the test comes. We may not go to the limit to which our responsibility refers.
B.T.F. Do you give the staves the same character as the boards?
J.T. They correspond in one way with the boards. Paul was like one of the staves. He carried the testimony. He tells us how far he carried it.
A.F.M. "From Jerusalem and round about unto Illyricum". Romans 15:19.
J.T. Yes; and he had it on his mind to go to Spain. The staves have reference to carrying the testimony of Christ.
B.T.F. He came to Ephesus and they burned up their curious books, the price of them being fifty thousand pieces of silver, showing how the testimony of Christ overthrew the world.
J.T. Quite so. We cannot say in the same way that we carry it, because Paul disclaimed ever taking up another man's line of things, but he had a measure and his measure reached even to the Corinthians and
the proof of it, was that he had carried the testimony to that city.
M.L.H. "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith". 2 Timothy 4:7. That was the ending of the man that carried the testimony.
J.T. That was like the drawing out of the staves. He had set the ark in its place; that was Paul's ministry.
P.L. He deposited the testimony in the assembly at Ephesus.
A.F.M. There is encouragement in the way John Mark ended.
J.T. He did not wait till the staves were drawn out. He ceased carrying too soon. He left the ark in the wilderness so to speak. You never give up your movement till Christ is in Zion. "I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids, until I find out a place for the Lord, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob". Psalm 132:4,5. "Arise O Lord into thy rest thou and the ark of thy strength". Psalm 132:8. That is a sentiment that goes with the staves.
A.F.M. Did not Mark get recovered?
J.T. He did and writes the gospel, which, I think, should be studied by everyone who wishes to be a stave.
P.L. Is not the writing of his gospel the measure of his recovery? The very one who had failed in the testimony is taken up to set forth Christ as the true ark of the testimony.
M.L.H. He took hold of the staves again.
R.S.S. There is one feature in connection with the ark we have not spoken of and that is the rings. Have you any thought about the signification of the rings into which the staves were put?
J.T. I think it refers to the place that Paul, or any servant, had in Christ. You are attached. There is a link of connection in that way.
R.S.S. Would it suggest affection?
J.T. Very likely. The ring is a symbol of affection. Literally it is easily understood, the ark could not be carried without the rings.
A.F.M. Is it like Galatians 1:15,16, "When it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen"?
J.T. That is the idea. Christ was known in Paul s heart.
M.L.H. In connection with gold have we that which is for God?
Ques. "And we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth". John 1:14. Is that the gold?
J.T. I think the gold side is rather testimony. It is what was seen in the testimony of Jesus. God was seen. You find right through that what is made prominent by Luke is that God was there. The kingdom of God is the point.
J.L.J. Do you get the thought of the gold in Timothy, God manifest in flesh?
A.F.M. Will you say a word about the mercy-seat?
J.T. That was all of gold. It is a question of what God is, God's mercy. "Whom God hath set forth a mercy-seat". Romans 3:25. It is what God is towards man. It is God's mercy in Christ towards man. But all that is supported by the humanity of Christ, and underneath was treasured up the will of God in His heart.
E.H.T. Then would you say the mercy-seat is a declaration of the rights of God, God's righteousness?
J.T. For the showing forth of God's righteousness, Romans 3:25.
W.B-s. The cherubim and the mercy-seat were of one piece of gold.
J.T. Showing how the attributes of God are
sustained in Christ. What Christ is towards man is exactly what God is towards man.
R.S.S. So that in a general way the wood set forth that which is connected with humanity, the gold that which was connected with what is divine. The gold, divine righteousness.
J.T. Yes, but more correctly the gold is what God is in testimony, and that takes the form of righteousness in the gospel. That is the great point in Romans.
G.B.M. So the acacia wood being overlaid with gold, meant that when men saw Christ they could but see God there.
A.F.M. So the wood is the only thing to bear the gold.
Exodus 26:1 - 37
J.T. It would be noticed that the things spoken of in chapter 25 are again alluded to in the end of this chapter 26. They are alluded to merely to show that they are now in their place, and under protection. So that chapter 25 really presents the positive things that are before God, by which He carries out His purpose.
R.S.S. That is the ark, the mercy-seat, the table of shewbread and the candlestick.
J.T. Yes. These are the positive things, so that chapter 25 contains the great central subject of all that follows. Chapter 26 sets out the means by which they are protected, and also, we may add, concealed for the moment. So that what we come to practically here is fellowship, because the principles of fellowship really took the place of that element of protection for divine things which was seen in Christ personally. Whilst He was here, He kept everything for God. Fellowship carried on that thought, so that as applied to us this chapter involves fellowship; fellowship viewed as that in which divine things are preserved. There are different coverings, and they all refer, in one sense, to what obtained among the Lord's people at the beginning. They were all, in principle in Christ, but the type applies more to Christianity.
A.F.M. Boards as well as curtains.
J.T. Yes. The first thing that we meet with is the curtains. The inner curtains are of different dimensions from the curtains of goats' hair.
W.B-s. One was twenty-eight cubits and the other thirty.
L.T.F. What is the point of that?
J.T. It shows there are inner and outer circles,
the inner corresponding so intimately in their structure and composition with the veil, referring to the divine nature in us, the new man.
J.L.J. So in the first you get, "it shall be one", Exodus 26:6 but in the last, "that it may be one". Exodus 26:11.
J.T. Therefore the first curtains refer to the new man. The divine nature is seen within. They are seen within the tabernacle, whereas the goats' hair, and the rams' skins, and the badgers' skins, were seen without, not within. That which was first seen in Christ was to be continued in the saints; in other words, what was true in Him became true in us.
J.L.J. Would you say the curtains have their answer in the Lord's prayer in John 17:22, "that they may be one"?
J.T. Yes. I think oneness is in the Spirit, but there is the exercise that it should be so, which I think the goats' hair and the other curtains suggest, whilst from the divine side we are one. It is laid down in Galatians 3:28 that "ye are all one in Christ Jesus". That is from the divine point of view, but then we must see to it that it is so practically.
W.B-s. There is a difference between the first curtains and the veil. In the first curtains the fine twined linen is mentioned first and in the veil, the blue comes first. What is the reason?
J.T. In the veil, I should say, the first thought is that Christ is heavenly. That comes out afterwards in us.
A.F.M. Is there this difference between the veil and the curtains; that you have what answers to the veil in John's gospel, and what answers to the curtains in John's epistle?
J.T. That is good. The epistle shows how that which is from the beginning is continued. It is not He but that. It is the kind of thing. Now that is the first chapter of John's epistle. In the second
chapter we have that which is true in Him: "The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning" 1 John 2:7. Then there is the new commandment "which thing is true in him and in you". 1 John 2:8. There is the continuation. Then he says that the fathers are marked by a knowledge of "him that is from the beginning". 1 John 2:13. Hence the importance of Exodus 25, because it presents the idea of what was at the beginning. The fathers know that, and John goes on in that chapter to say that "If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him". 1 John 2:29. That is the same thought, the continuation of what was in Christ. Then you have opened up further in 1 John 3 the working out of the divine nature, and it ends in chapter 5 by saying that "he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not". 1 John 5:18. That corresponds with Christ again. There is the principle of exclusion of evil and self-preservation.
G.A.T. God's thought is to have Christ continued on earth in the saints.
J.T. And the continuation of it ensures the protection of the things that God has before Him.
L.G.M. So the saints would be the vessel of the testimony continued.
J.T. The things before God that He uses for His own ends are continued and preserved here.
W.B-s. The first curtain corresponds with the veil. The veil is His flesh.
J.T. That is clear from Hebrews 10 so that it is unique. The curtains refer to the saints. The fact that they are so near to the veil in composition and construction, points to the divine nature in us. Even the cherubim are there. Then you have the veil supported by four pillars; see verses 32, 36, 37. There is another distinction. The veil was supported by four pillars overlaid with gold and socketed in
silver; the hangings of the door, were supported by five pillars overlaid with gold, but socketed in brass.
A.F.M. What is the distinction between the four and the five?
J.T. I think the five have reference to the human element of weakness in the supporters of the testimony. The four, I have no doubt, allude to the four evangelists. It is Christ as here in the flesh presented by the four evangelists whereas the entrance to all that, the outer entrance is marked by five.
A.F.M. Each evangelist ends with the death of Christ, answering to the four sockets of silver. Now what about the five pillars with sockets of brass?
J.T. I think they allude to the added testimony. Five would also be symbolically weak. I have no doubt it refers to such as Paul, and what he alludes to in himself. There is weakness in the vessel although the ministry was supported by divine power. Christ said: "My grace is sufficient for thee, for my strength is made perfect in weakness". 2 Corinthians 12:9.
W.B-s. There were four gospel writers and five writers of the epistles.
L.T.F. What is the point in the change of metal from silver to brass?
J.T. The further out you go, the more brass becomes prominent. The further in, the metal increases in value. The nearer you get to God, the more what is of Himself shines out. The nearer to the world, the brass appears, because the world has to be reminded that all approaches to God are marked by judgment, the judgment of sin.
A.F.M. I thought that was the point of the five pillars, that they were based upon that; hence the testimony of the five which went out later, was based upon that.
J.T. In the four narratives by the evangelists, it is not so much a question of the judgment of sin, though redemption is there of course, but it is not
so much that, as calling attention to the beauties and perfections of Christ, whereas the gospel goes out world-wide and reminds men of God's judgment of sin in the death of Christ; besides that, judgment to come is also announced. God "hath appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness" Acts 17:31, and "the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" Romans 1:18. All that goes with the gospel. Paul reasoned with Felix about it. The more you have to do with men, even in carrying the gospel to them, the more you have to do with judgment. But you can understand that if you are portraying the beauties of Christ, you do not make that prominent. Of course it is true that God's judgment of sin is seen throughout the Lord's ministry.
A.F.M. It is a necessary element in the gospel. When Paul preaches in Antioch in Pisidia he says, "Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets". Acts 13:40. That is the brass.
G.B.M. It looks as though the links of fellowship were founded on that. There are brass clasps.
J.T. There are different features of fellowship. Inside amongst ourselves, there is the working out of the divine nature in reciprocated affections, but then if we have to do with the world in business and so forth, the brass must appear; so you get in verse 11 in connection with the goats' hair, the fifty taches of brass.
R.S.S. Is brass, as used in the tabernacle, divine righteousness in connection with human responsibility?
J.T. I think it is divine righteousness as judging sin.
R.S.S. Gold is divine righteousness in connection with display.
J.T. As from God and as before God. All before
God was gold. In the inner curtains the fifty taches are all gold. The links that hold us together within are in the divine nature, but as you go out, you are held together by the sense of the judgment of evil; this is seen in 1 Corinthians 10. You cannot partake of the Lord's table and the table of demons. That is the brass.
G.A.T. I like that thought, especially the further you go in the more precious the metal.
J.T. Quite so. When the saints are together, there is no sense in speaking of the brass. While together we are not likely to steal. It is when you go out where the pressure of evil is that our old tendencies are liable to appear, and hence the principle of fellowship implies that you are not to do evil, even if the brethren are not looking at you. Very often we are more afraid of the brethren than we are of the Lord.
G.A.T. I find that myself, I am better amongst the saints than when I am away.
P.L. As we consider for one another when we are away, so we are free to consider for one another when we are together.
J.T. Fidelity is the great principle in fellowship, and it implies the thought in the brass. You are true to the brethren. It seems that you are not afraid of the Lord and you do things before His eye that you would not do before the eyes of the brethren. So the question of fidelity to the brethren is raised if faithfulness to the Lord has the first place.
M.L.H. What about the fifty taches?
J.T. It would take time to enlarge on these principles, but I think in general the measurements of the tabernacle are on the principle of ten. It is almost invariably ten or its multiplications. You have ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty and one hundred. On general principles the basis is ten. I think therefore that human responsibility marks it, so that you
can understand how it belongs to the present time. That responsibility was answered to infinitely in Christ. How much is it answered to in us?
A.F.M. You get the ten in the tables, the ten commandments.
R.S.S. It is always God's principle, that He gives testimony beforehand in regard to anything of great importance. The greatness of the thing typified is the reason why all these details are given. If God has gone to such infinite pains to give us all these details, it well behoves us to look into them with exercise of soul, so that we might apprehend what is signified, for they are written for our instruction.
J.T. The Psalmist said: "Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law". Psalm 119:18.
W.B-t. Will you say a word on the candlestick?
J.T. The ark, the mercy-seat, the table, and the candlestick, form the great things before God. The table suggests the goodness of God, the bountifulness with which He supplies food and then you have light. All these things really came out in the gospels. They all came out in the ministry of Christ, the goodness of God in supplying the bread and the table prepared and the light.
B.T.F. Are not all the details that we have in this chapter seen exhibited in the Person of the Lord Himself, when He was here?
J.T. I think they were. They all came out in Christ in principle. The inner curtains suggest the divine nature, and the outer curtains suggest the exclusion of evil. All these were in Christ. Brass is the judgment of evil with authority, but the inner curtains refer to holiness. Holiness abhors evil. We often have to deal with evil judicially, and yet we do not abhor it, we deal with it more in a legal way. But the question is, do you abhor it? Christ abhorred evil.
B.T.F. So that the inner is the first, and the inner with regard to our responsible pathway enables us to have the outer, that is if our souls are educated in what holiness is, there will be the repellent nature of the outer covering.
J.T. The exclusive power of the badgers' skins and the goats' hair disappears, if holiness inside is not maintained. There may be for a time the legal maintenance of righteousness, but you will find that with all people who move away from the truth and from holiness, sooner or later evil gets in. The walls go down, the doors get broken and evil gets in. The power of exclusivism is from within. So the Lord was infinitely holy and the exterior gave testimony to that.
B.T.F. So these give us both an individual and collective aspect.
J.T. I think, as we were saying, that the tabernacle has in view the maintenance of the testimony during this period, and the chapter we have before us has largely reference to our own circumstances. It is a question of whether we are formed in the divine nature first of all, and if we are, then you will have what some people derisively call exclusivism. We need exclusivism.
A.T.M. Will you say a word on the difference between the curtains of goats' hair and the outer skins?
J.T. There are only two sets of curtains carefully measured. The first is that composed of fine twined linen. They are twenty-eight cubits in length. Then the curtains of goats' hair exceed this by two cubits. On either side of the tabernacle they extended a cubit further to the ground than the inner curtains. Therefore the tabernacle is protected. Now I understand the two additional sets of curtains, no dimensions being given, are what you might call excess, excess of vigilance, so that evil should not be allowed to enter.
L.T.F. Would the different size make them overlap, so to speak? Is there a point in that in connection with what you were saying?
J.T. The whole tabernacle is secured; and then in the additional two sets of curtains you have excess of vigilance so that there should not be any possibility of the introduction of evil.
R.S.S. What was seen from without was the curtain of badgers' skins, nothing particular to look at. It is said of the Lord, that "he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground". Isaiah 53:2. So far as men were concerned, "he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him". Isaiah 53:2. So that the outer curtain being of badgers' skins answers to that the characteristic of a badger is vigilance. What is the signification first of all of the goats' skins and then of the rams' skins dyed red?
J.T. I think the goat is separation, he is not like a sheep. I think he is a creature that would isolate himself, sheep go together more. I have no doubt it alludes to the Lord's separation. He was really alone. "I sat alone". Jeremiah 15:17. Before we come into fellowship, we have to be isolated. It is an isolated one that seeks fellowship. You have no fellowship outside. You are alone.
W.E. Like the man in John 9.
J.T. Exactly. He was outside. It is a company of isolated ones as regards this world that form the fellowship.
B.T.F. Would you give us an idea of the particular force of the blue, the purple and the scarlet?
J.T. The blue is the heavenly colour, and the purple the royal, and the scarlet refers to earthly grandeur and glory. All these are found amongst the Lord's people in testimony, not in display yet. For instance if you suffer, that is the purple, you shall reign.
B.T.F. But the purple and the scarlet would be more future.
J.T. As to the literality of them, but they are to be known now in testimony.
G.A.T. Will you say a word about isolation. A brother wants to break bread and he wants fellowship; from what is he isolated?
J.T. "Come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you". 2 Corinthians 6:17. That is the principle. You are separated as an individual. You cannot go on with things in the world.
P.L. So the isolation took place when the people were brought into the wilderness.
J.T. Each one coming into fellowship comes in as an isolated one. You have no place in the world and you are glad to come to a warm place. If you are isolated you value fellowship.
L.T.F. Now what about the skins dyed red? They are rams' skins.
J.T. I think the ram is a mature animal; what is suggested in the ram is maturity and energy.
J.T. It has undergone a process, a change.
R.S.S. Which we all have to do.
J.T. Yes. If applied to Christ, it refers to His death. It is not its natural colour. Paul was changed. He was a man marked by energy but he changed his colour.
M.L.H. You would not say he lost his energy.
J.T. No; his ministry is marked by maturity and energy.
W.B-s. In Acts 2:42 you get four things. "They continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread and in prayers". Is the apostles' doctrine that which separated them from the outside thing?
J.T. The apostles' doctrine was light to them; that by which they were guided; and then what follows is that they were separated and they continued in fellowship. Peter is a remarkable illustration of a ram dyed red. He was denying the Lord a little while before and now he is testifying to Him.
A.F.M. What is the thought of changing colour? Was he conspicuous?
J.T. Yes; it gives a conspicuousness he did not have before.
R.S.S. When you speak of these things, have you the house of God in mind? It is the kind of persons, their character; the kind of people that form the place for God to dwell in.
J.T. I think the rams' skins speak of a distinctive people, although they would not assume to be this. Paul said that he was as unknown, yet he was well known.
L.C.J. Would it indicate a man that was prepared to lose his life, the skin dyed red?
J.T. It is a change from the natural colour.
E.H.T. Is there any thought in the distinctiveness of the colour? You could not mistake it.
J.T. The red heifer is distinctive. Red is a distinctive colour. It marks you off.
R.S.S. The difficulty is that we are marked off so little; and people would hardly know us to be Christians.
L.C.J. Peter denied the Lord and he was keeping his life here. That was his natural colour, but afterwards he dies for Christ. That is the skin dyed red.
R.S.S. You do not confine that to Peter.
J.T. You feel it that we are not so much marked off from other men.
W.B-t. It is remarkable that all this red was covered. There was a covering above of badgers' skins.
J.T. But there it is as a testimony.
L.T.F. I suppose being covered would indicate that you would not parade it.
J.T. You are not like those who put on a certain kind of clothes to distinguish themselves. There is what marks you because of the divine nature, and you are different from other people.
A.F.M. Was there not the framework which supported these curtains?
J.T. Yes. Now we come to the boards and there is more said of them than anything in this chapter.
G.B.M. May all the curtains be taken as one whole; an energetic separation from evil?
J.T. It is fellowship. To approach it from the outside, you meet the brass, but the further you go in, the value of the metal increases till you reach the gold, so that in the inner circle there is the divine nature and the activities of the heart.
W.L.P. Is there greater value in redemption than in judgment?
J.T. It is a more precious thought. Judgment is seen at the great white throne, but not redemption, except in the book of life. Therefore redemption brings in the love of God more.
G.A.T. Would John with his head on the Lord's breast be in the good of the gold?
J.T. Yes. Redemption is by the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. Judgment was borne for us by Christ, but judgment also applies to the unsaved and goes on to the great white throne.
B.T.F. These boards do not carry out their intended use except as together.
J .T. And there are no irregularities; that is to say, the tabernacle does not teach us development. That is not the point of view. It is the divine point of view. But that only emphasises the thought that you have the standard in it. God never deviates
from His own standard, so that the boards are all one size.
W.C.R. They are composed of the same material as the ark.
J.T. That is another point. There is a point of sympathy and similarity, throughout the whole structure of the tabernacle. It is marked by correspondence and sympathy, so that the boards are made of the same material as the ark, and covered over with gold as the ark was.
W.C.R. And the endurance seen in Christ would be expected to be seen in that which supports the testimony.
J.T. Quite so. So the Spirit of God gives us at the outset the testimony committed to the hands of a man, a characteristic board, that is Stephen.
A.F.M. You would say he answered to the dimensions.
J.T. I think it is beautiful that God is pleased to bring in one man of like passions with ourselves who corresponded with Christ in that way.
W.L.P. All should correspond, because the boards were all alike.
J.T. That is the standard; "until we all arrive at the full-grown man". Ephesians 4:13.
M.L.H. Stephen was great enough to serve tables.
J.T. He was content to be anything. God promoted him so that he came out as the ideal board. He came into evidence as serving tables. It is very touching that God is pleased to show in the Acts that there is one man that answered to the ark. See the endurance he had, and the amount of pressure he could stand.
M.L.H. Paul was great enough to make tents.
W.B-s. Do you think Stephen had a deep sense of the love of Christ? Each board was socketed in silver. It refers to the love of Christ.
J.T. I think the two sockets of silver refer to the
testimony we have in our souls to the love of Christ "who loved me and gave himself for me". Galatians 2:20. Look at the woman in Luke 7. "Seest thou this woman?" "She loved much". Luke 7:44,47. Why? Because of her knowledge of redemption. She was forgiven much. The one who judges himself most, is the one who appreciates Christ most. Here is the great gain of the redemption work of Christ. So Paul says he was the chief of sinners, and I have no doubt he had a greater appreciation of the sockets of silver than anyone. He said he was the chief of sinners. A man that says that owes more to Christ than anybody else.
R.S.S. I think some of us would like to get that thought of the sockets clearer. What is meaning of the two?
J.T. It is the testimony to your soul of the value of the death of Christ. You know it by the Spirit. "Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us ... And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more". Hebrews 10:15,17. And your love is commensurate with your knowledge of forgiveness, for to whom much is forgiven, the same loveth much. So that your support of the testimony is according to your love for Christ. I think that service begins with affection for Christ. Paul began that way; his sins were washed away; he valued the redemption work of Christ. "Who loved me and gave himself for me". Galatians 2:20. He moved about testifying of that One because he loved Him.
R.S.S. Silver represents that on which we stand. If you have not the knowledge of redemption in your soul, you will not be able to stand up.
J.T. That is it. You are immutably fixed. The foundation is immutable. But then the silver does not go inside. Inside it is gold, but love is really begotten in our souls by the knowledge of redemption.
R.S.S. I think it is a great thing to see that the testimony is to us. It is the witness to us. Very
important, because we are not established otherwise.
W.B-t. As to contact with the ground, the silver is really the foundation of the structure. That is, the boards and what hangs on the boards rests on the silver. As I understand you, you are pressing the point that it is the way we know Christ in redemption that is really at the foundation of the work of God in our souls.
J.T. It is the testimony of redemption in our souls. And the whole structure of the tabernacle rested on that.
W.C.R. Will you say a word about the bars?
J.T. They refer to the means of binding everything. Each board has its own separate identity. We each have a separate identity, but we are bound together. It is a parallel thought to the taches in the curtains, the principle of binding, which is a very great principle in the tabernacle.
L.T.F. By them it was one tabernacle.
G.A.T. In thinking of the tabernacle you are thinking of something not to be moved about.
J.T. It was to be taken down and carried, but as set up it is a type of the universal system that God has established on the ground of redemption.
E.H.T. Were the boards covered?
J.T. Yes; with gold. God is to be seen in us. We are to be blameless and harmless, the children of God in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation.
W.L.P. Are all Christians boards?
J.T. It is just like many other thoughts of the kind. From the divine side all is seen perfect. The apostle Paul was set for the bringing of each individual up to that standard. Perfection would be that he would be brought to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.
Ques. Would you connect the bars with the expression, "And to all these add love, which is the bond of perfectness", Colossians 3:14?
J.T. Anything that binds us together would be of that order.
P.L. The shepherd spirit in a brother, holding the saints together.
J.T. "With all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, forbearing one another in love; endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit", Ephesians 4:2 - 4.
G.A.T. Speaking of these as you have been doing, suggests the importance of all. We often may think that we are not of much account in the assembly, but every member of Christ is needed and one is of as much account as the other.
J.T. Even a peg was of importance.
W.B-s. If we are to be alone before we come into fellowship, we cannot stand alone; that is, the boards were joined together. They found themselves connected with the other boards.
B.T.F. God would sustain His people in the appreciation of redemption.
J.T. They are all bound together and made to stand. They do not stand alone, although I believe every man ought to cultivate the habit in his mind of standing alone if needs be. But at the same time the thought is that we are all to stand together, not by agreement to differ, but on the ground of redemption, as appreciating the redemption work of Christ, and we are held together by special binding principles amongst us.
D.R. The apostle expressed the desire to the Colossians that they be "knit together in love". Colossians 2:2.
J.T. "That their hearts might be comforted". Colossians 2:2. That is the first thing. You do not get unity if our hearts are oppressed. Sometimes we are hampered by cares.
A.F.M. I suppose we could not properly be together unless we first stood alone. In Romans we get what is individual preceding Corinthians.
J.T. Romans brings in the boards. It is the great epistle for producing boards. The effect of the gospel is to detach you from the world. You cannot go on with it as redeemed, and then you come to recognise the will of God. The righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled in you. You delight in the law of God after the inward man. Then in the next chapter you are carrying out the will of God, in your walk and ways down here. Therefore you are a qualified board; chapter 12 is based on that; we are all one in Christ Jesus.
E.H.T. The apostle Paul was alone in the testimony before Nero. He stood alone. "All men forsook me", he said. 2 Timothy 4:16.
I.N.H. All in Asia forsook him.
J.T. Everybody was put to the test as to how they regarded Paul. It shows how prominently he had shone in the testimony that he became almost like Christ Himself in that respect.
W.L.P. Should we not have the saints as a whole in our minds in speaking of these principles and not those only with whom we are walking?
J.T. That is very important. The apostle says, "until we all arrive". Ephesians 4:13.
E.H.T. Is standing alone more in connection with reproach?
J.T. You must make up your mind to stand alone if needs be. At the outset you came out and so you were practically alone. That is the beginning of your experience as a Christian, but subsequently you may be called upon to stand alone for the testimony. That is another matter.
R.S.S. What is the difference between the veil and the door? They seem to be made much of the same material.
J.T. There are no cherubim in the hanging for the door; compare verses 31 and 36. There is some difference in that way. You are not presented at the
entrance with what is judicial, though the foundation of judgment was there in the sockets, but the mind is not for the moment engaged with what is judicial. I think it is grace in the entrance.
R.S.S. And it was to this spot, called "the door of the tent", that Moses gathered the children of Israel together, "The door of the tabernacle", is an expression often used in Scripture. To this spot they came, not exactly to the door of the court. It was past the brazen altar and the brazen laver and suggests that those who came to this door had gone through the experience connected with the brazen altar. That is, they were standing in the good of the death of Christ.
J.T. Yes. The fact that the cherubim are not there is rather suggestive that grace is more prominent. The cherubim are the agents of judgment generally. Judgment is committed to Christ as Son of man.
W.B-s. The gate of the court was made in the same way, of the same material, as the one entering into the holy place. That would be the thought of grace, too.
J.T. The veil referred to the nature of Christ's humanity, not its durability now, but the fineness and purity of the texture. The "byssus" no doubt signifies this.
W.B-s. What is the thought of needlework?
J.T. The graces of the Spirit. Carefully wrought hand-work. I thought the body of the curtain was made of the byssus, evidently a very fine material. It is the fineness and purity of the texture that is in view. There was nothing unseemly about the Lord, nor is there anything coarse or unseemly in divine love in anyone. There is a peculiar fineness about the texture.
W.C.R. Do you get the same thought in the fine flour?
J.T. That is evenness. Comparing Christ with Peter and Paul, there was irregularity in these men, but not in Christ. But in the divine nature there is no incongruity either in Christ or in us. Love was judicial in Christ. He looked upon them with anger, and he said, "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees!" Matthew 23:13. All that was the cherubim. But then He could say to the woman, "Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace". Luke 7:50.
Exodus 27:1 - 21
W.B-s. Why do you get the brazen altar before the altar of incense? You do not get the altar of incense till chapter 30.
J.T. The altar of incense supposes the existence of the priesthood. Priesthood is introduced in the next chapter. We have it in chapters 28 and 29.
R.S.S. The priesthood would have reference to man's approach to God, whereas these three chapters present God's approach to man.
J.T. That is an excellent distinction. The altar of incense stands in relation to man's approach to God. It is not the means of God putting Himself in touch with man, but man in touch with God in prayer.
R.S.S. I suppose the same thing would apply to the brazen laver. That refers to man's approach.
J.T. Quite so. These chapters set before us the things by which God places Himself in touch with man according to His own nature.
R.S.S. The light at the end of this chapter is connected with the priesthood, so there is a connection with chapters 28 and 29. Aaron and his sons are named.
L.T.F. Would you not regard the brazen altar as the means of man's approach to God?
J.T. Yes but it appears first in regard to God's approach to man. Whereas the golden altar is not in that connection; it comes in after the priesthood, and supposes the priests are there to approach. The brazen altar is obviously essential to the whole system.
R.S.S. In fact it was the first object that was met in going in at the door of the court.
J.T. It is that in which God is publicly glorified.
R.S.S. The sacrifice of Christ; it was seen outside. In connection with our brother's remark, the way God comes out is the way we go in, so to speak, God ends with the brazen altar, but we begin with it.
J.T. So that God can receive you consistently with His own nature. "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate ... and I will receive you". 2 Corinthians 6:17. You are received consistently with the divine nature, and none can raise, a question about it, because He has been glorified publicly in regard to our sins. He is vindicated publicly.
B.T.F. Would you say a word about the approach of man to God? What was in my mind was this, that when one entered the tabernacle the first thing that presented itself was the brazen altar. There could be no approach to God except the truth of the brazen altar were entered into.
J.T. It would compromise God's character before all, were He to allow man to approach aside from the brazen altar.
M.L.H. Would you say God has come all the way out to where we are?
J.T. And consistently with His nature too. That is the idea in the brazen altar.
A.F.M. Do you base your thought on Exodus 29:42, 43, where it says in reference to the burnt-offering, "this shall be a continual burnt-offering throughout your generations at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the Lord where I will meet you, to speak there unto thee and there I will meet with the children of Israel".
J.T. Yes. Whereas in chapter 25 He proposes to speak from off the mercy-seat. But if He has communication with man publicly, it must be consistent with Himself, and the brazen altar secures that. It is really in the area that may be said to represent the space between heaven and earth. It is visible to all intelligences in heaven and also on earth.
E.H.T. Why is an altar necessary?
J.T. It is a place of sacrifice. It is a very interesting subject. Heretofore God had left the construction of altars to the altar builders. In giving the law directions as to the altar are added in Exodus 20:24 - 26.
L.G.M. The altar is the place where all difference and distance are settled between God and man.
J.T. Quite so. I remarked that hitherto God had left the construction of altars to the altar-builders till chapter 20 of this book, where He prescribes that the material of the altar should be earth. And if they builded it of stone it was not to be of hewn stone. That was all He said. But in Genesis and elsewhere, the altars are left to the altar builders, because an altar would indicate the measure of the builder's stature. It indicates one's knowledge of God no doubt, if it is left to yourself. God of course will accept you at your own altar, even though there may be imperfection there, because God will respect the least knowledge of Himself.
A.F.M. Jacob named his altars differently.
J.T. Yes. Jacob said he would let God have the tenth. God would accept that. He would appreciate it if he got ten tenths, but He would accept one tenth.
M.L.H. Did God ever speak from the mercy-seat till the blood was put upon it?
J.T. God spoke in Christ before His death, but the establishment of the system necessitates His death. I think it is important to consider this altar, to contrast it with those that preceded it, because God is very particular that it should be made, like the other parts of the tabernacle, according to the pattern. If it is to be God's altar specifically, it must in every way conform to His requirements. Whereas He allows you to build your altar.
W.E. So that we can rightly expect here something very large, it being God's altar.
J.T. What you would look for is that it conforms with the divine requirements, so that when you apply it to Christ, you will find you get all the measurements in Christ.
J.L.J. Do you get the thought of this altar in Ephesians 1:6,7? "Wherein he has taken us into favour in the Beloved, in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of offences, according to the riches of his grace".
J.T. "In whom we have redemption" is there. "Taken into favour" is higher. It takes you inside.
W.B-s. Is what is devoted in sacrifice connected with the altar?
J.T. The altar is an abiding thing. It stood there permanently, and it refers to Christ as undergoing wrath, as having to say to wrath. It is not gold. There is no gold apparent. It is a question of having to do with the judgment of God on account of sin.
W.C.R. Why is it made of shittim wood?
J.T. His humanity is there, and nowhere else, we may say, is its perfection seen more than in undergoing wrath, but at the same time He estimated the wrath. He went though it as knowing it and estimated it according to God, but never shrank from it. He went through it.
R.S.S. It was the Son of man that was lifted up; it does not say the Son of God. I refer to our brother's question as to shittim wood.
J.T. That allusion helps us as to the use of the word brass or copper. John 3:14 alludes to the brazen serpent. "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness even so must the Son of man be lifted up". Although the Son of man is mentioned, it is in that character, as undergoing wrath, made sin really.
G.A.T. Does the altar refer to the garden or the cross?
J.T. It is seen in principle in Gethsemane, where
the Lord anticipates the forsaking of God. He faces it, saying: "not my will but thine be done". Luke 22:42. I think the shittim wood is seen very clearly in Gethsemane. On the cross, He recognises the forsaking and justifies it.
W.C.R. You said yesterday the shittim wood referred to durability or endurance. How does that apply here?
J.T. In a most marked way, that He went through everything and sustained it. He sustained the fire of God's judgment.
W.B-t. You would make a difference between the altar and the victim.
J.T. There is a difference; it is not the victim here but the altar.
A.F.M. But this is really the altar of burnt offerings. You have associated wrath with the altar. Now I thought that applied to the victim, burnt outside the camp, the victim for sin, Will you make a distinction between the two?
J.T. The sin-offering was also offered here. The point is that the altar sustains everything.
B.T.F. Will you say a word regarding the altar in connection with the bodies of those beasts whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, being burned without the camp? What does the burning without the camp signify in connection with the wrath of God?
J.T. That is to show the complete consumption in judgment of the man that sinned. The Lord was not only a Sin-bearer on the cross; He was made sin; and the bodies of the sin offerings burned outside the camp referred to the total consumption of the man that sinned.
B.T.F. What was placed on the altar ascended to God.
J.T. The inwards of Christ, the affections and motives, all went up as a sweet savour to God. That
was for His pleasure, so that He was glorified there and, as I said, the inwards of the sin offering were also burned on the altar; but the public destruction of the carcase refers to God's abhorrence of the man that sinned. But what is to be noticed here is that all this refers to Christ personally, not as a Sacrifice, but as a Sufferer. Hence all the offerings were offered up here. Now what we get in the dimensions is of great importance in the altar. It is said to have been three cubits high and five cubits long and five cubits broad, the altar being four-square.
Ques. Why do you get the four horns on the altar?
J.T. The four horns are made "of itself". They are a piece with the altar. They are not conferred on Christ. They refer to the moral strength that was seen in Christ. Horns are symbols of strength. No doubt the gospels set them before us. That is to say, we have to take account of the moral strength that marked our Lord as Man here. The height of the altar was three. That is the power of resurrection. That was in Christ also.
A.F.M. Would the moral strength you speak of answer to his exhausting the judgment in three hours?
G.W.H. What He was prior to that.
J.T. What He was as Man here, the suffering One. You have the symbol of weakness; it is five cubits every way. He was crucified in weakness, but nevertheless there was moral strength in Christ as Man. He was never overcome by any circumstance. Look at Him in the presence of Pilate, in the presence of Herod, in the hall of judgment, and when they came to Him after Gethsemane. There is a moral superiority over every person and circumstance. Five is a symbol of human weakness, but there was a moral strength in Christ that made Him superior to every circumstance; and mark, it is not simply
that He was a divine Person. It is a question of His humanity because the four horns are a part of the altar. He was always superior, as Man, to every circumstance. Look at the superiority of Christ to Pilate!
E.H.T. I am interested in the thought that He sustains things.
J.T. It is worthy of development, because it brings out in a marked way what He was as Man. How that although every possible element of the world was arrayed against Him, He was never once inferior.
W.B-t. There never was such another Man.
L.G.M. Always master of the situation.
W.B-t. If one of us had been building an altar, we would have used a different material from wood. It is very noteworthy that shittim wood should be used in something that was constantly to contain fire.
O.J.O. This altar is as broad as it is long, what is the meaning of that?
J.T. It is the universal bearing of Christ's sufferings that are in view in the foursquare.
A.F.M. God has a voice to every man in the death of Christ.
J.T. God speaks there, in the light of Christianity at any rate, because we must remember the law was only a foreshadowing of good things to come, therefore we have to look at it with the light that we have. So that if God speaks there and He does, it is universal. It is to all men.
W.C.R. He tasted death for every thing.
G.B.M. It also comes out in the "whosoever" of John 3:14 and 16.
G.A.T. Bringing Him before us as a Man makes us appreciate His work more.
J.T. The altar is a great object lesson, because it suggests to us how we are to go through things, and
how we are to suffer. And perhaps there is nothing more difficult in suffering than to maintain a good spirit in it. You may go through it in a hard kind of way as unavoidable. We know that men do. It is wonderful what suffering men are capable of, but what you find in the altar is the moral superiority of Christ to every circumstance of suffering; His spirit was always perfect.
J.T. Yes. In Stephen is set forth how the spirit of Christ may be seen in one of like passions with ourselves, because his spirit was right in the severest possible sufferings. It was the spirit of Christ.
W.C.R. Do you see the very opposite of that in Moses when he smites the rock?
J.T. That is it. His spirit was not right. God makes a great deal of our spirits, and I have no doubt the four horns refer to the superiority of the kind of spirit that marked Christ in all those circumstances that closed in upon Him after Gethsemane.
P.L. "The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit" the apostle says Philemon 25.
R.S.S. We are to do well and suffer for it, and take it patiently.
D.R. You get the two thoughts in what is said of the Lord. "He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before his shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth". Isaiah 53:7. When He got the opportunity to open His mouth He said to Pilate, "My kingdom is not of this world, if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight but now is my kingdom not from hence". John 18:36.
W.B-s. The scene on the way to the cross, where the women of Jerusalem sympathised with Him, is touching. He said, "weep not for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children". Luke 23:28.
J.T. And then when He prays, "Father, forgive them". Luke 23:34. What a marvellous spirit! It seems as if
Stephen is set there to show it is possible even in us.
J.S. The same outcome would be in every one that is filled with the Holy Spirit, as it was in Stephen.
J.T. Yes. It is in the power of the Spirit that you accept suffering, and it is remarkable in our relations with one another, how chafed we become. You are not treated as you would like to be, and things do not go as you would like to have them go. The great thing is to maintain a right spirit in such circumstances.
A.B. "Rejoicing in tribulation".
P.L. You are viewing this from the collective standpoint, are you not? The brazen altar was at the door of the tabernacle. You cannot go in but in this spirit. There will be suffering in connection with the path of faith, and there must be strength to make you superior in it.
J.T. In the government of God you may be called upon to suffer wrongfully. Christ is the model, "who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously", 1 Peter 2:23. You have there in the brazen altar, as you come in, the right kind of a spirit set before you as a model.
B.T.F. Are the sufferings of Christ at the hand of man connected with the altar?
J.T. I think so. As we were saying, the altar may be put between Gethsemane and Golgotha. He is suffering either anticipatively or actually from Gethsemane to the cross and on the cross.
W.B-s. Will you go over those three figures again, five and four and three?
J.T. Five has reference to the Lord's outward weakness. He was crucified in weakness. The foursquare refers to the universal bearing of His sufferings. The three, the height refers to the divine power, the power of resurrection. He was put to death in the
flesh, but quickened in the Spirit. It is the power of resurrection.
R.S.S. Do you connect three with the three days in the grave and what followed?
J.T. It is alluded to frequently. The Son of man shall be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. It is the death and resurrection of Christ as the witness of Cod's power.
W.C.R. "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up". John 2:19. I was wondering if the scripture, "I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again", John 10:18 would allude to this.
J.T. That alludes to the height of the altar.
G.B.M. All these principles are connected with the acacia wood. I think you have helped us on an important point. Once in a while we are tempted to accept the world's flattery of Christ. Renan said, "Socrates died like a philosopher, but Jesus died like a God", but it was like a Man of another order acceptable to God.
G.A.T. I need a little more help as to the spirit we ought to show. When a brother goes my way I can show him a good spirit, but when it is otherwise, it is different.
R.S.S. The spirit of Christ is what we need. I think you often check yourself that way. You have feelings but the thing is not to harbour them.
J.T. No adverse circumstances can compare with His. The brethren even may be against you, or combine against you, but the circumstances are not anything like what the Lord had to face, and He was always superior.
A.F.M. Matthew 11 would illustrate that. He rejoiced in spirit at that moment.
M.L.H. There was nothing in His spirit but the sweetness of divine love, though all had forsaken Him.
B.T.F. Supposing a soul is exercised as to coming
into fellowship, you would warn him that he will not find perfection in the saints.
J.T. I think that is wise. It is consideration for him at any rate, so that he may not be disappointed. It is well to engage him with the altar because that is the first thing that he meets with. And indeed the apostle Paul alludes to that in Galatians, saying that Christ had been portrayed among them, crucified.
G.A.T. What would you do if you saw a brother going wrong? Would you go direct to himself and then if he would not hear you, what then?
J.T. The Scriptures tell us plainly what to do. You do not allow things to travel too much. You take one or two more. There are two now in the secret and if he refuse to listen to them, you tell it to the assembly. That is a wider area, of course, and if he refuse to listen to it, he must be treated as a heathen man and a publican. It is public now. If you take a definite stand in regard to the brother and treat him as a heathen and publican, he is no longer regarded as of the number but it is the last resource.
W.H.F. That would not cut him off from the assembly. It is individual.
J.T. Yes; so far as it goes. The responsibility is now with the assembly to act towards him.
W.H.F. It might lead to exclusion from the assembly.
J.T. Quite so. If they follow it out they will have to act also.
E.H.T. Would there be anything in taking with you a particular brother, a man with a right spirit?
J.T. The Scriptures say so. If it is a question of recovery, the spiritual restore him. They are in accord with the altar; "considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted". Galatians 6:1.
M.L.H. Could we have a word in regard to the vessels of the altar?
W.B-s. The third verse speaks of the ashes. I suppose it is in connection with the death of the victim.
J.T. The testimony that death took place is to be carefully preserved. The ashes are the testimony to the consumption by fire of the victim. These utensils mentioned were literally necessary and therefore they point, in the antitype, to everything being found in Christ that has reference to suffering and sacrifice.
B.T.F. Do the ashes imply that the sacrifice was accepted?
J.T. I think so. There is the testimony to the fact that the victim was consumed, that God's judgment had become effective and the ashes are the testimony to that.
W.C.R. The ashes of the red heifer were carefully preserved.
J.T. You have a more detailed application of the ashes there, because it is a question of the recovery of the individual from the effect of defilement. But here we are dealing with the altar by itself, how fully everything was there that was requisite in regard to the judgment of God.
W.B-t. The thought of the ashes being there goes beyond the thought of death merely.
J.T. It is consumption. The carcase testifies to death, but there is the complete consumption by fire, so that there is nothing left. It is the total consumption by fire of that which sinned.
W.E. The evidence that fire had done its work.
R.S.S. "All thy waves and thy billows are gone over me" Psalm 42:7. Not a drop left to go over us. In connection with the court the hangings were simply fine twined linen, that formed the court.
J.T. The court is what is public, nevertheless within the enclosure. I think it refers, if we apply the tabernacle to the present time, to that area in
which, although we are on earth, we are not influenced by earth. We are governed by heaven. It is not the world outside, and yet it is a public thing. It refers to our position here in connection with the death of Christ as influenced by heaven. Sin is seen as judged amongst us, but we are influenced by heaven; as on the day of Pentecost, heaven associated itself with their testimony to the judgment of sin.
R.S.S. Does the enclosure indicate that you are separate in that way?
J.T. Yes; although yet in view. We have not gone inside. We are morally separated from the world, but in view of the world.
R.S.S. What separates us is the fine twined linen.
J.T. The pillars of the court were set in brass, in keeping with the death of Christ, the altar. The enclosure is in keeping with that, but it is a public thing. The world can see over it as it were. But then there are in the curtains, silver clasps, see verse 17; that is, in the utmost limits of the area, there is the testimony of redemption. Christ has a claim over all that sphere. He has not claimed the world outside, but the Lord does assert His right to the saints, no matter where they may be. The Lord asserts His right to you, and that is the point of the silver, the rights of Christ in redemption.
A.B. In Revelation 19 the fine linen is described as the righteousnesses of the saints. The linen round the courts was seen. It was public. It is practical righteousness.
J.T. The word for fine linen here implies, I believe, whiteness and fineness. It is the fineness and purity of the thing that is in view, and if that be so, it is the new man that you put on; "Put on the new man". Ephesians 4:24. You have put off the old man and have put on the new. That is what is public as in Colossians. That is what the world sees.
R.S.S. What is characteristic of Christ.
J.T. And then in that you have the testimony of redemption, that Christ has a claim over it all.
W.B-t. You do not get the thought of a covering, a protection; that you get inside the tabernacle.
J.T. No. This is more for testimony as our brother has been pointing out.
A.B. The fine linen alludes to the righteous acts of the saints.
R.S.S. The sockets for the boards of the tabernacle were in twos and they were made of silver. For the court pillars there was one socket of brass. We remember what was said about the silver sockets yesterday, the two indicates witness to us, that on which we stand. But here it is brass on which the pillars stand. It is not a question of the Spirit witnessing to us here, it is rather a more public thing, that the Lord has gone through the righteous judgment of God as the Sin-bearer.
J.T. They refer to that in us in our public ways, which testifies that sin is judged. The foundation of your position here before men implies that sin has been judged. But then Christ owns you. You cannot belong to the world or society. You cannot be a Freemason or an Oddfellow. You cannot join any kind of a society in this world, because Christ's rights of redemption preclude all that.
R.S.S. Indicated in the silver in the hangings.
A.F.M. And it is exclusive in character.
J.T. The fine workings of the Spirit are not there, although they are at the entrance, because if any one wants to come in, it is worth while showing him this fine handiwork. You get that in the entrance. But as to the casual worldling, it is no use casting pearls before swine.
M.L.H. "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil". John 17:15.
J.T. If one wants to come in you can show him the hangings!
R.S.S. It shows the reason why there is no purple nor blue nor scarlet in the hangings round the court, but they are at the door. If any one wants to come in they speak of Christ.
A.F.M. How could one get into the court?
J.T. Through exercise. It refers to an exercised soul. Why should he come in if he is not seeking the things of God?
A.F.M. I thought that one who was not an Israelite could not enter.
J.T. That may be, but at the same time, God was there to be approached.
P.L. The man coming in among the Corinthians would say that God was amongst them, of a truth.
J.T. Yes, he came in, but I thought he would be an exercised person. Of course there is such a thing as false brethren creeping in unawares, and that raises the question of door-keeping, but in a general way God was there to be approached; any exercised person may come, and such persons appreciate what is seen at the entrance.
A.F.M. What are the four pillars that supported the gate?
J.T. We had five at the entrance of the tabernacle. Now the five idea is seen in the height of the outer pillars and hangings. They were five cubits. See verse 18. The gate being supported by four pillars would suggest the universal bearing of the testimony towards man. It is carried on in human weakness, the height of the hangings of the court is five. Paul was weak, but nevertheless his ministry was effective. The power of God is seen in the weakness. "We also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you". 2 Corinthians 13:4.
J.L.J. Where does baptism put you in connection with the court?
J.T. It puts you in the court. It places you in a position which is influenced by heaven. The court was influenced by what was within.
M.L.H. How about the family in which one parent is a believer?
J.T. If one is a believer, he is in touch with heaven and in that way brings in the influence of heaven into the family.
W.H.F. Does the court indicate the sphere of profession?
J.T. It is a public position. In it we are under the eyes of the world. But then it was where Christ died. He died under the eyes of the world.
E.H.T. Those at Corinth took their place in suffering when they were baptised. They were "baptised for the dead". 1 Corinthians 15:29.
J.T. The court is not measured in Revelation 11, but the altar is taken into account, because no matter how small things are, suffering people will be taken account of. You can always sacrifice or surrender. But God does not take account of mere profession. The court is not measured but left for judgment, but the temple of God and the altar and the worshippers are all measured.
R.S.S. In connection with the court, is it our responsible life there?
J.T. It is what is public. It is like "Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh to fulfil the lusts thereof" Romans 13:14.
R.S.S. The common people could come in there, but the priests and the Levites only could go into the tabernacle.
W.L.P. Can it be said that Christendom is under the influence of heaven?
J.T. No. Christendom is not under the influence of heaven, and therefore when God comes to measure, He is not going to measure it. That is the serious thing at the present time.
D.R. Being under the influence of heaven involves being under the influence of the Spirit.
J.T. Antichrist will blaspheme God and all them that dwell in heaven. That is what they are preparing for now. They say Christianity is a failure. In the early part of the Acts all were under the influence of the Spirit.
E.H.T. Is not Christendom in the court?
J.T. Yes. But it is not now influenced by heaven and so God will not take account of it when He comes to measure things, but will leave it for judgment. We do not realise that enough. Still we are all in the court as far as our profession goes, but when you come to the altar, that is measured, and that is where reality is taken account of, because the altar is the test of your profession. If you profess to be a follower of Christ, how much will you suffer for Him?
M.L.H. In the recent election in our State, the woman suffragists put out a circular amongst all the voters with this as the basis: "The great obstacle that we have to encounter is the Bible. We must have it revised".
J.T. One can understand that. And there is a great deal being said now of the ineffectiveness of Christianity. It is very significant, paving the way for the time when the tabernacle of God and all the inhabitants of heaven are blasphemed.
G.A.T. Will you say a word on the children of Israel bringing the oil, and Aaron and his sons ordering the lamp?
R.S.S. It is remarkable that it comes in between the introduction of the priesthood and what we have been considering.
J.T. God would have the light shining. It suggests, I think, the exercises of the people, God would have the light through their exercises. They should bring the olive oil; it is really the fruit of the Spirit,
The responsibility of having it lighted lay with Aaron and his sons; that is, Christ and the assembly.
R.S.S. The light of God is shining out in that way. The section we have been considering evidently closes with verse 19 of this chapter. The two verses at the end seem to be a link between the two sections.
J.T. They introduce the priesthood.
Exodus 30:1 - 38
J.T. The omission of the golden altar in the order of the previous chapters is significant for as to its position, it should have come in immediately after the ark.
R.S.S. It is a very important part of the furniture of the tabernacle.
J.T. Yes; and its omission is significant, and becomes a subject of deep interest as to the approach of man to God. It has no place in the coming out of God towards man. It is unnecessary. That is to say, God came out voluntarily, without solicitation. The altar of incense suggests prayer. This is not necessary for the revelation of God. So that the omission of the golden altar is very interesting as to the difference between revelation and approach. At the end of chapter 27 you have Aaron and his sons, and that introduces the subject of priesthood, which the two intervening chapters, 28 and 29, develop. That brings in the order of man that is to draw near to God.
R.S.S. Is the order of man seen in their garments?
J.T. I think so. God would be ministered to; "that he may minister unto me in the priest's office". Exodus 28:1. So that the introduction of the priesthood necessarily brings in the golden altar, because that is the place of the priests' approach. They did not approach at the brazen altar, but at the golden altar. Chapters 28 and 29 suppose that the saints have passed the brazen altar. Priesthood is perhaps unknown to many of the Lord's people, for I fear that most do not go beyond the brazen altar.
E.H.T. Is the golden altar a response to the brazen altar?
J.T. The golden altar does not suggest the work
of Christ, but the fragrance of His Person before God. It is what Christ is, as Man before God, not as suffering before men. It differs in this way from the brazen altar in that its horns refer to what Christ is Godward, His power with God. The horns of the brazen altar indicate His power with men. It is a question of moral power going through suffering.
W.B-s. Would that take in what we have spoken of in Scripture regarding Jacob in his wrestling with the angel?
J.T. That is the idea of the horns here. Jacob prevailed. God loves to let us prevail. God prevailed in Christ in coming out to man, but man prevails, in Christ, with God.
A.F.M. Does John 11:42 help us where the Lord praying, said: "I knew that thou hearest me always".
J.T. That refers to His power with God. God prevailed in coming out to man, that is the ark. It is the same Person within under the eyes of the cherubim, that is without before men.
E.H.T. "Thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns". Psalm 22:21.
W.B-s. Do you limit this altar to prayer? Is it connected with worship at all?
J.T. It is the place of prayer for us, and no doubt points to the place of Israel's worship in the future. If we take up worship in a Christian sense, it is inside. Worship is not need, nor the expression of need, whereas the golden altar is the place for the expression of need, only the point is that it is the altar of incense; the prayers are fragrant to God. It in on account of what Christ is.
P.L. He was heard for His piety.
J.T. That is it; that is the golden altar. It was the fragrance of that Man. The golden altar and the laver complete the furniture, but the golden altar and the laver are on the in line whereas the
others are on the out line. That is to say, the washing and prayer are not on the line of revelation but on the line of approach.
P.L. Is that John 13 and 17?
J.T. Yes; John 13 is the laver and John 17 the golden altar. These things are mentioned when priesthood is introduced. It may appear that there is a certain break in the arrangement, hut it is perfect.
G.A.T. What do you mean by washing before prayer?
J.T. Verses 18 - 21 read, "Thou shalt also make a laver of brass, and his foot also of brass, to wash withal; and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein. For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat. When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the Lord. So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not; and it shall be a statute for ever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations". Exodus 30:18 - 21. That is to say, there is no allowance of ministry of any kind unless there is washing.
P.A. What does the washing speak of?
J.T. Not the removal of sins; all that is dealt with on the brazen altar. The priests have to wash. We are all priests, as having faith and the spirit of Christ. Therefore when you move past the brazen altar you are on priestly ground, but as I was saying, we have to admit that many do not pass the brazen altar, but if you do pass and you want to go within, the next vessel you meet is the laver, which indicates, that although you are a priest as regards your conscience, you need to be cleansed as regards your mind and your affections. It is the effect of the word connected with the death of Christ.
A.B. Does Hebrews 10:22 refer to the brazen altar and the laver also, "having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water"?
J.T. That is the allusion, the one to the altar of burnt-offering and the other to the laver.
G.B.M. Is this the answer to "Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord"? Psalm 24:3.
J.T. Quite so. "He that hath clean hands". Psalm 24:4. All believers in Christ are priests from the divine side. But how many take up the privilege? Directly you do take it up you feel the necessity of the washing. Many have a good conscience as regards their sins, and yet they remain in human organisations; quite content to remain there, too. They remain in organisations to which priesthood does not apply. But directly you move to take up your privilege as a priest, you feel the necessity not only for the blood of Christ, but for the washing of water by the word, and if you allow the word to have its place in your conscience and heart you have to come out of all these associations.
A.F.M. Is the result of that, that we are in suited dress for priestly service, clothed in the fine linen?
J.T. Quite so. You are holy now in mind and heart. Holiness is one great feature of the priesthood.
A.F.M. Is there not also another thought in the chapters which precede this? You have the relation of the sons of Aaron to Aaron. You could not go in there alone.
J.T. We go in as related to Christ. In Hebrews 10 we are said to have certain things; having boldness and having a great High Priest. Christ is over the house of God, therefore let us draw near. In drawing near, you become conscious of your relationship with Him.
W.B-t. "This is he that came by water and blood even Jesus the Christ; not by water only, but
by water and blood". 1 John 5:6. What is the connection in this passage?
J.T. That shows the importance of the water, which is mentioned first there, although not alone. John's epistle deals largely with the removal of the man that sinned from your mind and heart, not so much judicially as subjectively.
J.L.J. Is that Numbers 19 the water of separation?
J.T. I think the water is much less understood than the blood. I do not say it is more important, because it is not; it is not atonement; the blood is atonement, but many are content with the blood, whereas the Spirit of God puts the water first in John's epistle.
B.T.F. Is not the blood for the eye of God and the water for the subjective cleansing?
P.G. The Lord said to Peter, "If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me" John 13:8.
J.T. Peter said, "thou shalt never wash my feet". John 13:8. That was his will. He tried to be considerate for Christ, but nevertheless he was not submissive to Christ. You can never consider for Christ truly unless you submit to Him. If your will is at work, you do not come into the good of the cleansing. The Lord's service goes on, there is no change in that; the washing of water by the word goes on, but if I say, "thou shalt never wash my feet", the answer is, "If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me". John 13:8. That is to say, there must be entire resignation to Christ.
W.B-s. In 1 Peter 2:1,2 we read, "Laying aside all malice ... desire the sincere milk of the word"; and then the living stones are brought in, and following on that the priesthood.
J.T. "If indeed ye have tasted that the Lord is good". 1 Peter 2:3. The Lord has His place. You have grown up
to salvation; that is, you have grown into superiority to all that is adverse. But how? By the pure mental milk of the word. It is the effect of the word on the soul. You grow into superiority to all that defiles. That is what I understand to be a saved person. You grow up unto salvation. Well now you move to Christ; "to whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God and precious, ye also as lively stones are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ". 1 Peter 2:4,5. But you may be sure, that the great difficulty amongst God's people is that the will is at work; there may be a good conscience as regards sins, and yet a refusing to bow to the claims and will of Christ. The Lord's redemption rights over you are the test.
A.B. The parts washed at the laver are very suggestive.
J.T. You feel the necessity of clean hands in taking up divine things.
E.I.E. "That they die not". Exodus 30:20. What is the significance of that?
J.T. These expressions in the typical books are found frequently, and they signify God's utter abhorrence of the man after the flesh approaching Him, and hence the seriousness of what is going on around us, men taking up divine things according to their natural abilities.
J.S. Water is seen in two aspects, still water and running water. I suppose there is something in the difference. Is it death rolled in upon us at the laver or is it life?
J.T. The water at the laver is not living water. Your question suggests a good deal, because you have in Numbers 19 and in Leviticus 13, running water. Here it is not that. The water in the layer was not
running. It suggests therefore what is negative. It is the application of death simply. Running water is the Spirit using the word to revive the affections.
W.C.R. You get that in John 7.
J.T. Yes. Of course another side to water is that you drink it, but this is not for that, nor is the water in Leviticus or Numbers, for drinking, but you have water for refreshment. In John 13 the water was in a bason, and therefore it was not running. I think the running water of Numbers 19 suggests more the life giving energy of the Spirit, applying the word.
R.S.S. The running water is not typical of the water that came from the side of Christ.
J.T. No, it is not; although it is connected with death in both the scriptures mentioned. Water for cleansing, came out of a dead Christ, but the Holy Spirit comes from a living Christ. That is the water you drink, living water.
W.B-s. Why is the redemption money brought in between the altar of incense and the laver?
J.T. I think it is to bring in the redemption cost of each of us. It is the cost of each as the census is made. "The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel". Exodus 30:15. It was according to the shekel of the sanctuary.
P.L. Does not that greatly help us in approaching the golden altar; the sense of what the saints are to Christ?
J.T. The place that silver has in the tabernacle is striking. On the one hand, it refers to the testimony to your heart of Christ's love in redeeming you, on the other hand it refers to His redemption rights over you. Now here it is that each individual is on the same footing there; that is to say, each one has cost the Lord exactly the same.
P.L. It is the brother "for whom Christ died". Romans 14:15.
J.T. Quite so. No matter how weak he may be.
You must take account that he cost the Lord as much as you.
P.L. And that will help you to pray for him.
J.T. The intimate connection between the candlestick, or rather the dressing and lighting of it, and the golden altar is most instructive. It is when Aaron dressed the lamps and when he lighted them, the incense was to ascend. Now the dressing of the lamps may call out what is not very fragrant, what may be the very opposite to fragrance. The dressing of the lamps may bring out a good bit of corruption; I mean as the Lord deals with each one of us, in order that we may be light-bearers.
Now the candlestick brings in the number seven. In that way perhaps it is unique in the tabernacle. There were seven branches to it, suggesting the Spirit. How wonderful that we should become the vessels of the Spirit for light! When you come to the Spirit, you come to what is eternal. I make that remark advisedly. Already, as having part in the Spirit, we have part in what is eternal, not simply in what is millennial. Having part in what is millennial is more in having part in the twelve. The Spirit is seen in the millennium; He is found there, but not in an indwelling character, whereas in our dispensation He is seen as indwelling us, and in that way connects us with what is eternal. The reason I say that is this, that in Deuteronomy 16 there are three feasts specified in which the people were to appear before God. The first was the feast of unleavened bread for seven days. The second was the feast of weeks; that is the feast of Pentecost, to which there is no limit at all. There is no specified time for the feast of Pentecost, and that means, as I understand it, that as you maintain in your soul self-judgment; that is to say, the feast of unleavened bread, you have part in what is eternal. How wonderful it is that we are vessels of that Spirit, and that for the
moment it is the pleasure of God that we should be lights here! And hence the necessity for Aaron to dress the lamps every morning. The dressing, as I said, may bring out a good bit of what is very unsavoury, but all that is offset by the fragrance of the humanity of Christ in the presence of God; the incense went up while he dressed the lamps. That is how things are maintained.
P.L. Would the first epistle to the Corinthians be the dressing of the lamps, and the second the lighting?
J.T. Paul was like a priest. The light had become dim through the fluff, as is very often the case, but Paul looked after the testimony in Corinth; he was considering for them. You can have no testimony unless the lamps are dressed.
O.J.O. Why dress them every morning?
J.T. The lamp burned all night. We are not like Christ. He did not need to be dressed. The light shone resplendently in Him from the outset. There was nothing unsavoury about Him; the light went on and shone; but in our case, as has been pointed out as to Corinth, there is the need of dressing continuously.
B.T.F. What is there in the lamp that suggests the human side, that suggests that which is dressed. There is the oil that gives the light.
J.T. There would be the wick, some medium through which the oil went up and burned.
G.A.T. How do we dress ourselves?
J.T. We do not; the High Priest does it. The idea is to adjust the wick for the light so that the light should not be marred.
D.R. The Lord has that before him in writing to the seven churches. Unless they repented He would remove the candlestick.
J.T. That is the same thing. Repentance would bring them back to the idea of the candlestick.
B.T.F. Is the laver and the dressing of the lamps in any way on the same line?
J.T. The dressing brings in discipline, I think, as you see in 1 Corinthians.
R.S.S. Why was it from the evening to the morning in view of the fact that there was no natural light in the tabernacle?
J.T. I think the point is that the light was within during the period of darkness outside.
G.B.M. In Exodus 27:21 we read, "in the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the Lord". Does not that help in what we have had? The dressing seems to go on all the time.
J.T. Yes; but apparently from this chapter there was a special dressing in the morning and then the formal lighting in the evening for a time of darkness.
P.A. The Psalmist experienced the dressing. He says he was disciplined every morning, Psalm 73.
J.L.J. What about the snuff-dishes?
J.T. They are just for the purpose of dressing the lamps.
G.A.T. Is the thought of "from evening to morning", that the light is committed to the saints, and that we should be shining all the time?
J.T. That is it. The Lord has set up the light here and He continues to keep the lamps right; that is His service, and the same applies to the lamp dressing as to the laver. Our wills interfere. To get the gain of these things we must submit to Christ.
B.T.F. Is the lamp dressing adjustment in service?
J.T. It is adjustment for light, that you may shine.
P.L. "Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus
might be made manifest in our body". 2 Corinthians 4:10. Is the dying of Jesus the dressing, and the life of Jesus the light?
J.T. Yes. Of course the candlestick stood before God, it was in the holy place.
W.B-t. I have a little difficulty because of its being inside. It must be more for God than for man.
J.T. The priests only get the direct benefit of it.
L.G.M. It is not like "Ye are the light of the world". Matthew 5:14.
J.T. Not quite that. The ordinary Israelite never saw this lamp. It is not the light that is seen by people generally, but they see the effect of it. You see the priests have light that ordinary people have not. You had to go inside to get the benefit of this light.
L.G.M. Do you think that God comes out to bring us in, so that we might go out to shine?
J.T. How can any one present what is within unless he goes in? And you come out to testify, having all this light in your heart. Now for instance, in heaven, for this is really typical of the heavens, all the wonderful light that is there only brings out the beauty of Christ; it shines over against the candlestick; it brings out the beauties of Christ. You go out illuminated by that. The ordinary person does not see that.
A.F.M. "For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth". Malachi 2:7. He would be illuminated from what was within, and come out in knowledge and beauty.
R.S.S. Stephen was illuminated when he stood before the Sanhedrim.
J.T. And look at what he saw inside. The Lord said to Nathanael, "Thou shalt see greater things than these" John 1:50; the greater things would be that the angels should ascend and descend upon the Son of man. They will see that in the millennium. But what do we see? "Jesus ... . crowned with glory
and honour". Hebrews 2:9. We see Him within, and we understand how He has tasted death for everything. That is a different kind of thing to see.
W.C.R. Would the three going up to the mount of transfiguration and Paul being caught up into the third heaven, be the same thing?
J.T. Yes. They are parallel thoughts. Peter says, we were "eye-witnesses of his majesty". 2 Peter 1:16. John says, "we beheld his glory", John 1:14 and Paul says he was "caught up to the third heaven". 2 Corinthians 12:2.
W.C.R. And others saw the effect of that.
P.L. Is this on the line of the holiest?
J.T. Yes. It is light that only priests get the benefit of; they are the only ones that are in it.
R.S.S. Could we have something on the anointing oil and the perfume?
J.T. The anointing oil is a compound in which myrrh is a prominent part, and I think that what is suggested is the Spirit, but the Spirit as seen in Christ, the Spirit as seen in the suffering of Christ. It is the spirit of a suffering Christ. That is the prominent feature.
R.S.S. There was a like weight of myrrh and cassia.
J.T. Cassia came in in equal quantity, but the myrrh is the first mentioned. Myrrh being mentioned first, suggests the spirit of a suffering Christ. Myrrh, I understand, is suffering love. The whole tabernacle is anointed by this. We are anointed by the same Spirit. The assembly comes in peculiarly under the anointing of Christ; "So also is the Christ". Christ and the assembly in that way are seen as one, and I think this is the spirit of a suffering Christ. The assembly is the continuation of Christ here, and what comes out is the point of sympathy in suffering.
P.A. Is that the reason the bride is awakened by the sweet-smelling myrrh on the handles of the lock?
J.T. It refers to the fact that it was suffering love. Suffering love brought Him there. She was not equal to it, but she was moved by it. Now Stephen answers to this. It is the spirit of a suffering Christ, and it pervaded the whole of the tabernacle, showing that the tabernacle points to the present time, as a suffering period.
J.L.J. There are several things anointed with the oil. How is it done now?
J.T. It is not exactly the coming in of the Holy Spirit from heaven. The coming of the Spirit from heaven suggests what is heavenly, and of course the assembly is heavenly; but outwardly what marks it is suffering; it is a suffering period. So when the Lord takes up Paul, He says, "I will show him how great things he must suffer". Acts 9:16.
W.C.R. "If we suffer, we shall also reign with him". 2 Timothy 2:12.
P.L. Filling up the measure of suffering for His body's sake. Is that the tabernacle anointed with the myrrh?
P.A. The apostle was consecrated for that suffering.
W.B-s. In Psalm 45:8 you get these spices mentioned, "All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces whereby they have made thee glad".
J.T. That is the feminine side, the daughter; that shows that she was to correspond with Him.
W.B-s. Christ was anointed with the oil of gladness above His fellows.
J.T. That is the oil of gladness, but this is the spirit of a suffering Christ, and it becomes very affecting because there is so little of it.
W.E. What would be the effect if it did make an impression on us?
J.T. I think it would lead to glorying in tribulations.
It would lead to contentment in suffering. The whole point, as we had this morning, is the spirit in which you suffer; whether you are equal to the thing.
L.G.M. It would be a pleasant odour going up to God.
W.E. "I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content". Philippians 4:11.
J.T. Paul was to be "offered up". He was to he poured out in this way. His whole path, his whole service was fragrant to God, an odour from life unto life, and an odour from death unto death.
R.S.S. It is interesting, in this connection, that the wise men from the East brought gold, frankincense and myrrh, Matthew 2:11. I think it has been said, gold for a king, frankincense for a priest, and myrrh for the tomb. When the Lord was buried, Nicodemus brought "a mixture of myrrh and aloes about an hundred pound weight". John 19:39. It would connect itself with the thought of the tomb, suffering.
G.A.T. Have you anything to say about verse 33; "whosoever compoundeth any like it, or whosoever putteth any of it upon a stranger, shall even be cut off from his people". Exodus 30:33.
J.T. The imitation of that spirit. You often get things in Christian Scientists and Unitarians that are very remarkable for their imitation. God hates imitations, especially when you come to imitating the spirit of Christ.
W.B-s. Strange fire and imitation of the holy oil are two things God will not admit of.
J.T. The second beast in Revelation 13 has two horns like a Lamb and the voice of a dragon. The two horns are simply to imitate Christ. There is the pretension to the lamb like spirit, but it is not there at all. It is an imitation.
L.G.M. Would you say that the anointing now includes all the interests of Christ?
J.T. It includes the whole tabernacle system. The divine thought is that all the saints should be pervaded by this kind of spirit.
J.L.J. Do you get the thought in John 12, when Mary anoints Him for His burial?
J.T. She anointed His feet there. The point is the intelligence of her act. She anointed the feet that were carrying Him to the cross for the accomplishment of the will of God, whereas in the house of Simon the leper, it was His head. There it was His dignity that was in the woman's mind.
W.B-t. Why is it said: "upon man's flesh, shall it not be poured"? Exodus 30:32.
J.T. God will not allow the spirit of Christ to be connected with man in the flesh.
John 1:35 - 51; Philemon 8 - 19
I desire to show you the effect of being introduced into the home of Christ, a very great subject, as you can readily see. My thought is not to enlarge on the home itself, but to show the outward effect of it upon us, that it produces the spirit of search and recovery. It is characteristic of John's gospel to suggest that there is a home, or a family sphere, and that we are to be there permanently. In Luke, the Lord's service is presented more in connection with God coming out to where man was, and he shows that the service of grace which marked Christ here, was to be continued. The illustration of that is found in chapter 4. He was pleased to come into Simon's house. He was also found in Mary's house and in Levi's house according to Luke. He was found also in the house of Simon the Pharisee, but He was pleased to come into Simon Peter's house. He found Peter's wife's mother sick of a fever, and He stood over her and rebuked the fever, and the fever departed from her, and she arose and ministered to them. Now that is the effect of the ministry of Christ as seen in Luke. I do not dwell upon it, only to point out to you that He rebuked the fever, and it left the woman, and she arose and ministered to them; not simply to Him, but to them.
Now John is not forgetful of that, but he pursues the effect of the coming in of Christ till he shows us the subjects of the revelation and the work of God in their own place in the family sphere, in the Father's house. Bearing this in mind, I wish to occupy you for a little with the immediate effect of it as presented in these verses. I might say in passing that John's gospel presents Christ to us as setting things in movement. It was as if He found everything inanimate.
All evidence of life had gone, but "in him was life". John 1:4. In Genesis 2 Adam was inanimate as formed of the clay but God breathed into him. It could not be said of Adam, "In him was life".
Now John introduces to us the great centre of the moral universe. He is the beginning, and He sets things in movement. Hence you will find that the immediate connection of John calling attention to Christ is that he saw Jesus coming to him. Where was John? He was baptising. Jesus came to him as the baptiser. How perfect that was! How in keeping with the divine requirements! It was the fulfilling of all righteousness, as we learn elsewhere. In figure, it was going into death. John saw Him coming to him and says, "Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world". John 1:29. He is going to set things in movement, but in order to do it, He removes the obstruction. Consequent on this He can walk. On the next day He is seen walking. The Lord has title to walk in His own domain, but His first movement is, in regard to sin, to set it aside, for it stood in the way of the accomplishment of the divine purpose. Then the next day, John sees Him walking in His own domain as you might say. What a walk! There is in it the idea of setting things in movement. Really, whether it be in an individual soul, or in the world as the sphere of divine operations, there can be no progress till sin is dealt with. If there is stagnation with any of us, we may be assured that sin is the cause of it. If there is no divine movement in going forward, sin is present in some form. Things were, as it were, stagnant in Old Testament times. You can understand that the order of things established at Jerusalem was not a moveable order of things; things there were stationary, but the Lord comes in and removes the obstruction. John sees Him coming to him, that is, to remove the obstruction, and he says: "Behold
the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world". John 1:29. What a mighty undertaking that was! Sin stood athwart the divine path, and the first movement of Christ, as John sees Him, is in the direction of the removal of that obstruction.
Now, the obstruction gone, you have movement. It does not say to where He was walking. The point is, that sin being dealt with, the Lamb of God can walk and John sees it, and his heart admires it. It is to be admired. And John looking upon Him said, "Behold the Lamb of God". John 1:36. Mark you, looking upon Him as He walked, he says, "Behold the Lamb of God", John 1:29 and the two disciples heard him speak and they walked also -- they followed Jesus. Then the Lord turns and tests them, "What seek ye?" John 1:38. It is a very good thing to have a question like that put to us. Very often you find with souls extreme indefiniteness. They do not know what it is they are after. Now the Lord loves definiteness, and He looks for it and gives you the opportunity of giving expression to it. "What seek ye?" Their answer was not far to seek, through grace. John had directed them to Jesus, and He acquired a place in their hearts. They were attracted to Him and their answer was prompt; "Rabbi"; that is, Master or Teacher, for they wanted to be taught, "Where dwellest thou?" John 1:38. They sought the Teacher, but they wanted to know where He abode. That is very fine; it was as much as to say, 'We want to see You at home'. Have you any such desire as that? One has the greatest sympathy with young people in these days, but it is difficult to find a young Christian with a fixed heart. It is a most difficult thing to find definiteness. The Lord looks for it. Their definite desire here was to find out where He dwelt, and it says they abode there that day.
Before proceeding I wish for a moment to dwell on Luke 15 as a parallel passage. It suggests the divine
home. The chapter, taken as a whole, presents to us the activity of divine Persons, with the result that one returns to the home. That is the great point of the Spirit at the present time, the spirit of search. Directly you get into the divine home, you find that spirit. Something is lost and you set out to search for it. The sheep has gone astray, the piece of money is lost in the dust of the floor, and the younger brother is gone.
What I want you to notice is, that from the moment the son left the house there was the spirit of search in it. One was lost. Now that is the present time. The nearer you come to the divine home, the more your spirit is imbued with the idea of search for others. Something is lost, and you are out to find it. You are set in movement. You will remember how Saul the king set out to find the asses, but he did not find them. Somebody else found them. The true idea is that you search and you find. "He sought me out very diligently", said Paul of Onesiphorus, "and found me". 2 Timothy 1:17. The shepherd did not come home without the sheep. He found the sheep. The woman did not give up till she found the piece of money, she found it. So the prodigal was found. He "was lost", said the father, "and is found". Luke 15:32.
Now the same thing appears here. What I am desiring to emphasise is this, that in the closing days the divine thought is that there should be activity of a right kind. There is a great deal of activity of a wrong kind. The activity of the right kind is started by Christ. It begins with Him, it begins within. They abode with Him for the day; and then it says, "One of the two which heard John speak and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother". John 1:40. Peter was not there. What I want you to notice is this, that he "first findeth his own brother". John 1:41. He found him. I think that is very remarkable. It is perfect order. Why go to a distance to
find somebody? Begin at home. Now God has respect for every legitimate affection, and if your heart is brought into touch with divine things, who deserves to hear about it first? Your nearest relative. "He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ. And he brought him to Jesus". John 1:41. He did not simply tell him about it and let him go himself. I desire to lay upon your hearts the obligation to find and to bring, to effect recovery. He found him, he enlightened him, and he brought him. It is much more easy to bring him after you enlighten him. Let us give people all the light we can, but we must not stop at that.
Andrew brought Simon to Jesus, and he did a good deal more than he thought he was doing. He brought in the great apostle Peter. We little know in our small service how great the result may be. The point is not simply that you can count your converts, we want to see ultimate results. What was the great ultimate result of Andrew's mission? The great apostle Peter, the man to whom the Lord committed the keys of the kingdom. Think of being used to convert a man like that! But see how simple it is, he was Andrew's brother. It was the natural thing for Andrew to tell his brother about Christ. Now your work is never done till you bring the result of it to Christ. Andrew brought the result of his exercises to Christ. What will Christ do with it? He will find a place for it. See the place He found for Peter. He gave him the name Cephas, which indicated what he was to be. The Spirit immediately tells us that it means a stone. It signified a piece of material for a divine structure. Andrew's work resulted in one of the foundations of the heavenly city, nothing less than that. What encouragement there is to take up the spirit of search!
It goes on to say: "the day following". John 1:43. I might
say that this day may be connected with the assembly period. The home influence results in material for the assembly. Peter is the great element or feature, as we may say. He is a living stone, and part of the heavenly structure. Now the next day, the Lord Himself is moving again. It is Israel's day. I am not wishing to speak on dispensational lines, only to show you how the Lord is introduced in John as setting things in movement, and the movement takes the form of the spirit of search. "The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me". John 1:43. He found Philip. You may say it was accidental. I do not think so at all. Things are not put that way in the work and service of Christ. There is nothing accidental in the service of Christ. He found Philip. There was a definiteness in the search. As I was saying as to Luke 15 the man was looking for the sheep, and the woman was looking for the piece of money. Now it is said here that the Lord found Philip, and then we are told that Philip was of the same town as Andrew and Peter. There was quite a work in that town, the town of Bethsaida. I have no doubt that the town may represent Israel, because the divine movement began there. It says in verse 45, "Philip findeth Nathanael". John 1:45. He catches the spirit of search. The same principle will obtain in the last days in regard to Israel. The Lord moves. He found Philip, Philip moved and he found Nathanael. Nathanael is the Israel of God. What a thing to find! Andrew found material for the assembly and Philip found the Israel of God. How remarkable!
Do you not think the remnant of Israel will be exercised about Israel? The Psalmist said, "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning". Psalm 137:5. That is the spirit of the remnant. They never forget Jerusalem. Israel is the one great fact for every true Israelite. Look at Elijah, twelve
stones in his altar; the Israel of God. Look at Paul: "Our twelve tribes, instantly serving God, day and night, hope to come", Acts 26:7, the Israel of God. Look at James, "To the twelve tribes scattered abroad", James 1:1 the Israel of God. So Philip had it in his heart, he found Nathanael, and what was the result? He brings him to Christ, and Christ, we may say, gives him a name. He gave Simon a name, which indicated the dispensation in which he was to shine. He saw Nathanael under the fig-tree. It says: "Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile". John 1:47. Philip was honoured in finding Nathanael, he enlightened him, as Andrew enlightened Peter. He says, "We have found him" (it is all finding here), "of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph". John 1:45. It is not the cedar tree that he presents to Nathanael. He tests him. It is the despised Nazarene. Nathanael says, "Can there be any good thing come out of Nazareth?" "Come and see". John 1:46. The point is come. Thank God, he came. He was not deterred by the despicable city or the despised Citizen of that city. And Jesus saw him coming. He loves to see us coming. It is a pleasure to see one coming to Jesus. You get a name and the name indicates what you are. What was Nathanael? An Israelite indeed, in whom was no guile. In other words, he represents the Israel of God. So that you have the assembly, and you have Israel, both brought in by the spirit of search, and that spirit resulting in things being found.
I pass on to Philemon just for a moment. In Paul's ministry you have the spirit of Christ, not only in the way of searching and finding, but restoring the thing better than it was. What you find with David after the catastrophe at Ziklag is that he recovered everything. Now Christianity is better than that, as I want to show you. The prodigal son
came back a better man than he left. I need not remind you of that. I see in fact Luke 15 in the principle of it, in Onesimus. Paul takes the position here of restoring something to Philemon that was lost to him, and restoring it in an infinitely better condition than it was when it was lost. I cannot enlarge upon it. I can only leave it by saying a few words about it. The apostle says in verse 15, "For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever; not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved". Philemon 15. Now think of that. We have nothing in Luke 15 about the exercises of the prodigal after he got into the house. We have a good deal about the father's and we have a good deal about those of the elder brother. The exercises of the latter were that he was not thought of, he was selfish. What you find here is that Onesimus is restored to his position; he had been a slave, but now above a slave, restored as a beloved brother.
I want to dwell in closing on the magnitude of the work of Paul, going out, into the distance and sending back man, as it were, in the wonderfully changed state seen in Onesimus. "Receive him", Paul says to Philemon, "as myself" Philemon 17. Think of this completeness of Paul's identification with the result of his work! Are you prepared to identify yourself with the result of your work? Paul identifies himself with the result of his, and he was to be received as a beloved brother. There are very few people called that in Scripture. One hardly knows whom to address in that way now. It is very rarely that one is addressed that way and rightly I think, for we should not use these expressions carelessly. You do find such persons in Scripture as "faithful" and "beloved"; the highest degree you can get in a way! Now Onesimus is a beloved brother. Paul is so confident about him that he identifies himself
with him fully. He says, "Receive him as myself" Philemon 17; and for how long? For ever! Are you content with the brethren? They are to be with you for ever. Can you not live with them now? If he is a beloved brother, you claim him for ever. Do you not treasure the thought that the brethren are to be with you and you with them, for ever? Many of us have come a long distance. What for? I hope it is at least to meet one another. We are not anxious to depart. There is the brotherly spirit and you have a spiritual home for the moment. Now this is only the foretaste of what is before us. Think of being in the society of beloved brethren for ever! Paul brought that in. I just wanted to dwell on that in closing; the magnitude of Paul's ministry; how he restored men to God as beloved brethren; and as restored as beloved brethren to remain for ever and ever.
There is just one other thought as to Paul's spirit. He not only paid his own debts but also those of others. It is a great thing to pay your own debts, it is a matter of righteousness. Romans 8 teaches us to pay our own debts, and "live of the rest", 2 Kings 4:7 like the widow with the pot of oil; she was to sell the oil and pay her debts, and live on the balance. That refers to the Spirit. Having the Spirit, you are able to discharge all your moral liabilities, and besides that you have enough to live on. Romans 8 does not suggest that you are to pay other people's debts. But in Paul you have the excess. He says, "If he oweth thee ought, put that on my account". Philemon 18. Now I do not know of anything finer, in a way, than that. You not only discharge all your own obligations, but you are prepared to discharge the obligations of others. That is the spirit of Christianity. Therefore it seems to me that Paul is the embodiment of it. Christianity is not simply that you pay your debts and have a means of living; that will mark Israel. They will pay their debts. Christianity is the excess.
Paul undertook to pay the debts of Onesimus. That is to say, that "beloved brother" must not be encumbered in any way, he must be free, and so far as in me lies, I will see that he is free. That is the spirit of Christianity. I leave it with you.
That is what the Lord would bring to pass in this present time, I think. He would bring about the spirit of search, for a great many of our brethren are lost to us, and if we are near the Father and the Son and the Spirit, we shall be made conscious of that. They are lost, and you are not at rest till they are all found. The man that failed as king is the man who did not find the asses. You may be greater than other brethren, but the test of your efficiency is that you find those that are lost. May the Lord give us to seek our brethren!
1 Corinthians 10:15 - 33; 1 Corinthians 11:17 - 34
The apostle speaks to the Corinthians in chapter 10 as to wise persons. They were to have the responsibility of judging what was said. It was assumed that they were intelligent, and so capable of understanding what the apostle presented. Intelligence underlies the idea of the assembly.
In Matthew the assembly is introduced, and it supersedes the Sanhedrim. In chapter 10 we are instructed as to fidelity regarding the Lord and one another, and how we are to behave when apart from each other. Chapter 11 gives us our behaviour when together, chapter 10 raises the question of fidelity, and it is a searching one.
The apostle says to them, "for who has known the mind of the Lord, who shall instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ", 1 Corinthians 2:16. Thus there is capacity for understanding the things of Christ. Discrimination is of great importance. We are to have our senses exercised, so as to discern between good and evil.
Chapter 10 enforces fidelity to the Lord and to each other, and that is very important. Fidelity is the result of love. It is put to the test when we are not directly under one another's eyes. We are responsible to those with whom we break bread. We are to judge of the cup and the bread. What do they mean to us? It is the communion of Christ's blood and of His body. "We being many are one bread, and one body" 1 Corinthians 10:17, for "we are all partakers of that one bread". Participation commits you. The taking of the loaf and of the cup supposes spirituality,
but one's spiritual measure is the measure of one's fidelity.
The responsible side is presented first, for after the Lord gets His place the saints get theirs. In receiving one among us, we are often so anxious to gain the person that we forget the side of the fellowship involved. But we are held to be intelligent as having the Spirit. As Wisdom's children we are capable of apprehending Wisdom's teaching. In Christendom there is neither fidelity to Christ nor to one another. In coming into fellowship you commit yourself to the obligations involved. Curiously enough, we seem much less afraid of the eye of the Lord than that of the brethren. We ought to be far more in awe of the Lord's eye. We cannot do as we please. We may commit what is a sin against the conscience of our brethren as shown here. The apostle would not sin against their consciences, even if doing what he might consider right. Of course you would not be governed by another man's conscience; your rule is not mine, and you must not make your conscience a rule for mine. But rather than let one of the saints suffer I must refrain. The emblems assert the Lord's claim over me. We are one body. Christ died in answer to God's will, hence we disallow our own wills. The Lord devoted His body for us. His body was for God and also for us. "All things are lawful, but all things are not expedient". 1 Corinthians 10:23. There should be no lack of consideration for those toward whom we are under obligations. Mephibosheth is a good illustration of fidelity. His fidelity shone when David was absent from Jerusalem.
The cup is introduced first in chapter 10 because His holy life has been surrendered. It leads to surrender on our part, the surrender of all that we cherish. God surrendered the life of Christ. Adam's life was a forfeited one after sin came in, but God gave up the life of Christ, that precious life. We bless the cup, we value the blood of Christ so much that it draws out all our admiration. That life
belonged to God. Blood always belonged to God, the love of God is therefore prominent. Our blessing the cup is according to our appreciation of God's love, but we are not large enough to compass it. The love of God is in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. It is impossible to partake of the cup of the Lord and of the cup of the demons. The love expressed in God's surrender, and in Christ's own surrender in giving up His body, floods our souls. Now how do we regard the saints? That is our measure We must be faithful to our fellowship, we have come into fellowship ourselves, but are we consistent in it?
A person commits himself to something in coming into fellowship. Breaking the one loaf is his committal, it is an outward act, just as you are only numbered among the disciples of Christ as you are baptised. The things mentioned in 1 Corinthians 10:16 become motives, so that there may be a leverage in the soul to make us equal to the partnership. "The legs of the lame are not equal", Proverbs 26:7 and if we are not true to the obligations due one to another we are inconsistent. Now if we are right in our souls, we shall be sensitive to the Lord's eye first. The saints at the beginning "continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in the breaking of bread and in prayers". Acts 2:42. It is not full Christian fellowship there it is the apostles' fellowship. The epistle to the Corinthians opens up Christian fellowship. Fellowship is according to divine wisdom. Enjoyment of Christian blessings down here depends on fellowship. Things act concurrently in the soul, you love God, and you love Christ and the brethren. Fellowship protects you in all this, but if you remain in the world you deprive yourself of Christian fellowship, where these things are practically secured.
In your baptism some one else commits you, but no one can commit you to fellowship. The apostle spoke from the standpoint of one who was in that
fellowship. You may be enlightened by the gospel, but you deprive yourself of its blessings practically if you stay in the world. You cannot declare war with Christ without coming out defeated. "Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?" 1 Corinthians 10:22. Wisdom leads us to see the great benefits in Christian fellowship. If you are consistent you are transparent, not afraid of the Lord or of the brethren; there are no dark spots. The thought of what God has given up for you in His love, and of what Christ has given up for you in His love touches you. This fellowship embraces the apostles' fellowship, but we are in fellowship as brethren, and we must consider the partnership in which we are. We are equally responsible. Here it is not exactly a question of walking in the light, as in John, but of walking in relation to one's brethren; you are responsible to the saints even when they do not see you. That is chapter 10.
Christian fellowship supposes adverse conditions; things are so opposed to Christ that there is necessity for fellowship. Of course you must go on with right principles at all costs, even if by so doing you offend your brethren; they might be legal, but we can give up a meal, or various kinds of things, to consider one another. There is a good bit of darkness in us, and we are apt to try to show up to advantage when we meet one another, but the question is, how do we think of one another, and how do we act when separated? Do we love each other? Things are often a bit forced, there is an effort to keep up appearances. If I am walking in love, I would not hurt one for whom Christ died. In our meetings we may be often far away from the assembly in spirit, and there is a great danger of going on with a "ready-made" service. The Lord's supper helps us in fidelity to our brethren. You begin with the cup and the bread. They are positive things, but then
energy in everyday life leads to energy when we are together. The feast of unleavened bread was for seven days, and if you do not keep that feast you will not have the Pentecostal feast.
In chapter 11 there is to be consideration for one another when together. They were doing things at the Supper in a spirit very detrimental to assembly privileges; they were acting in partiality. The apostle tells them that they were to "tarry one for another". 1 Corinthians 11:33. He lays down a principle. You wait on the Lord, but you need to wait on the saints besides. You do not consider your own feelings, nor act from individual impulses in the assembly. You act in the light of the assembly, and, in a sense, wait for a lead; you wait on one another. Others beside yourself have exercises; there is no allowance for favourite hymns. Spirit and mind must not go ahead of each other. If I give out a hymn or participate in any way, I must consider if all are ready to be committed to that, and from the all the sisters are not excluded. We should know one another's spiritual condition and take part suitably. Your intelligence must govern you in the assembly, for whose edification you are always considering.
We must be governed by the light that governs the position. Much damage may he done by even the wrong use of a hymn; the meeting may be dragged down. You have been engaged with the Lord and His dying very rightly, but as reaching association with Him, it is Headship. His relation to the Father and ours with Him are in view. He is singing now. If you use your intelligence you are helped in that the Lord helps you. We must get in touch with the Lord in the breaking of bread to be led on to the Father.
Pages 84 - 166 -- "Appreciation of the Inheritance". Belfast, April, 1915 (Volume 26).
E.J.McB. In proposing this scripture, you had the inheritance mainly before you?
J.T. Yes. Taking possession of the inheritance requires in us a state formed by the Spirit. This book furnishes us with examples of the state that appreciates the inheritance; so that, in that way, it corresponds with the epistle to the Ephesians. I think that the Lord would emphasise in these days the importance of our continuance; of our going on to the end. The teaching of the Pentateuch is completed in the book of Joshua; that is to say, this book presents the end of a course of dealings on the part of God with His people. The book of Judges opens up another chapter in the history of the people. I think that the Lord would emphasise the importance of our going on to the end subjectively. Of course His coming is the end; that is His side; our side is that we should continue to the end. In connection with that I wish to point out the difference between the inheritance as given by Moses, and the inheritance given by Eleazar and Joshua, for one observes that many in this day are content with what Moses gives.
Ques. Do you refer to what Moses gave to the two-and-a-half tribes?
J.T. Yes; but what the two-and-a-half tribes were content with, all the others had; yet the others had much more besides. The two-and-a-half tribes were content with what they received from Moses, but the other nine-and-a-half tribes, in addition to what Moses gave them, had also what Eleazar and Joshua gave. We shall notice in chapter 13 the
extent of the inheritance that Moses allotted, but there was an inheritance which Eleazar and Joshua gave which went far beyond that. It helps us in the understanding of the book of Joshua to consider the man himself.
E.J.McB. I think your opening remarks about the question of spiritual state bring in the importance of the first appearance of Joshua on the scene -- where he comes in to oppose Amalek.
J.T. Yes, he appears first in Exodus 17; and he appears where the waters flowed at Rephidim. Now I think you have there the suggestion of the Spirit. The rock was stricken, the waters flowed, and there Amalek appeared; he appeared at Rephidim. When the Spirit begins to appear in the history of the saints, Satan works through the flesh in order to prevent spiritual formation. That is what Satan is set against -- formation; so here we find in type the flesh and the Spirit: Amalek is there and Joshua is there.
E.N.H. Do you think that Joshua illustrates Christ acting in the power of the Spirit; whereas Eleazar is more Christ as Priest who is absent, and therefore he does not come so much into prominence, but he is behind the scenes?
J.T. Yes; I think that is quite right. Eleazar is mentioned first in the allotting of the inheritance. I think it would greatly help to the understanding of the subject to see how Joshua appears. He appears first to contend with Amalek; that is to say, when the soul is relieved Satan would prevent formation; he would hinder the work of the Spirit. So Amalek appears just there, and Joshua takes up the conflict when Amalek appears. It is not Moses, it is Joshua; and that conflict goes on "from generation to generation", Exodus 17:16 because it is as if God would give room for the work of the Spirit in the soul.
E.J.McB. And another thing -- there is Joshua's
intimate association with Moses in relation to the communications on the mount.
J.T. Yes; he is called Moses' attendant, and he accompanied the mediator on the mount, So that his leadership provides for all the light vouchsafed in regard of the tabernacle; and then after that he is in the tabernacle permanently. So that the soul is linked up through Joshua with the divine system.
E.J.McB. Will you just make a remark as to the difference between the thought of Moses and Joshua typically?
J.T. Moses is ever the authority of the Lord; and you will find there is no direct communication to Joshua from the Lord until Moses dies. As you see in this chapter, after the death of Moses the Lord speaks to Joshua; but prior to that the communications to Joshua are through Moses.
E.N.H. Would you say the authority of Moses is illustrated by his rod? His rod can take them through the wilderness, but it could not take them into the land.
J.T. But whilst Moses lived he was the mediator. All communications from the Lord for Joshua came through Moses, so what Joshua represents is subordinate to the authority of Christ. Now the authority of Christ is what is always necessary; it is specially evident when your will is active. Joshua had no rod; he had no symbol of authority.
E.M. I should like to get a little help as to Joshua coining in to oppose Amalek. The Spirit is opposed to the flesh.
J.T. Joshua represents the independent authority of the Spirit. Joshua becomes endeared to the people -- he comes into evidence with the people as a military man; and he comes into evidence not as having a symbol of authority, but on account of his military prowess. What Joshua represents is the moral authority of Christ in your soul which through
the Spirit overthrows the power of the flesh. Satan would prevent spiritual formation; that is what he is against; but he cannot prevent the Spirit coming into the believer. You cannot get the Spirit by any act of yours.
E.J.McB. Would you connect the thought of Joshua with the true spiritual state in the believer?
J.T. Yes. He is a figure of that which combats Satan in the flesh.
J.B. Will you kindly trace Moses' and Joshua's authority as here given?
J.T. Well, Moses comes right up to the banks of the Jordan, and until he dies Joshua was not formally and directly recognised by the Lord; so we must leave every room for the authority of Moses.
E.J.McB. It is interesting to see that Joshua was connected prior to this period with all the spiritual activities of the people. He is not mentioned in Hebrews 11.
J.T. And he is not even mentioned in the book of Leviticus, where it is a question of approach; but in Joshua it is a question of the spiritual energy that takes possession. He refers more to what is hidden in the believer's history than to what is public.
R.L. Does Joshua get his commission here, where the Lord says to him "as I was with Moses so I will be with thee"? Joshua 1:5.
J.T. Yes, he is now definitely in control; that is to say, it is that element in the soul that definitely controls you; it is not something from outside; it is something within you. We see an instance of it in Caleb -- a man who with unwearied energy and appreciation of the inheritance would lay hold of it; he would get it at any cost. Caleb represents the energy and aim of Joshua seen by itself.
E.N.H. Would the condition of soul by which the inheritance is taken hold of be indicated in verse 3: "Every place that the sole of your foot
shall tread upon, that have I given unto you" Joshua 1:3; whereas in the second verse it is more from God's side: "arise, go over this Jordan, thou and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them" Joshua 1:2.
J.T. Yes, that is a very good distinction.
E.J.McB. Do you think the 15th to 17th verses of Numbers 27 help in relation to this energy: "Moses spake unto the Lord, saying, Let the Lord, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation, which may go out before them, and which may go in before them, and which may lead them out, and which may bring them in; that the congregation of the Lord be not as sheep which have no shepherd". Numbers 27:15 17.
J.T. Yes, so that full provision was made in that way. And then in Deuteronomy 34: 9, it is said: "Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him: and the children of Israel hearkened unto him, and did as the Lord commanded Moses".
E.M. I should like to ask what is the difference between Joshua being hearkened unto, and of Joshua as typifying spiritual energy?
J.T. It is just this: "as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God", Romans 8:14. The authority of the apostles was the authority of Christ, and it necessarily governed everything -- like the banks of a river. The Scriptures now do that.
E.N.H. Would that be like verse 7? The way we have authority now is by what is written; and so now we have the apostles' writings.
J.T. Yes. In Acts we see that the apostles respected the Scriptures; but in chapter 2 it is not said of the saints that they continued stedfastly in the Scriptures, but that "they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in
breaking of bread, and in prayers". Acts 2:42. They had respect for the apostles' authority. But then the coming of the Spirit developed a spiritual state in the saints of God; and that is what the book of Joshua presents -- a state marked by the energy that lays hold of what God proposes for you. The apostles could not put the saints in possession of the inheritance. All that the greatest of them could do was to open it up, and pray for the saints that they might enter into it; see Ephesians 1 and 3. The apostles brought in the great scheme of Christianity, but the Spirit only can give you possession of what is presented in it. So that there is great latitude for the work of the Spirit.
J.M. There appears to be a very intimate link between the Spirit received in the believer and Christ as set forth in Joshua. Christ as Leader, as you have been speaking of Him, does not appear to be so much presented on the objective line as on the line of what He is in the believer.
J.T. Well, in Romans 8 where we have the great truths connected with the Spirit, one thought is introduced there: "If Christ be in you"; that is more than the Spirit in you. "If Christ be in you the body is dead on account of sin, but the Spirit life on account of righteousness". Romans 8:10. Christ in you now is in control. Now that really lays the basis for Colossians; for the mystery of Colossians is "Christ in you, the hope of glory". Colossians 1:27. That is to say, if He is in you glory is secured to you; He will place you there; so that Christ in the saints implies His headship.
J.M. Would it involve a measure of formation?
J.T. It does; Colossians supposes formation. Romans 8 does not teach it, but it lays the basis for it.
Rem. To be strengthened by the Spirit in the inner man is the idea antitypically in Joshua.
J.T. That is Ephesians, but you see how it is developed in Scripture. Romans 8 shows us what the Spirit is in the believer. Romans does not develop
the formative work, but it shows what is there. But when it is said "If Christ be in you the body is dead because of sin", etc. Romans 8:10, it means more than having the Spirit. There are conditions in your soul that enable the Lord to come in.
Rem. I was thinking of the remark made at the start in relation to the five books of Moses, and Joshua being the completion of the Pentateuch; we read that "Israel served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders that overlived Joshua", Joshua 24:31. If you have the days of Joshua, you have not the departure that is met with in the book of Judges.
J.T. No. So that the truth of Ephesians is always the great objective of the Spirit.
E.J.McB. Will you explain the difference between what Moses gives and what Joshua gives?
J.T. What Moses gives is Romans. The possession of the Spirit is a very great inheritance; but one may have the Spirit and yet live in one's family.
E.J.McB. In what place does the position I hold in relation to the tabernacle system as under Moses come in?
J.T. Well, Corinthians and Romans run together. Romans treats of the individual -- God's work with an individual, so that he is adjusted in regard of God here. God is publicly vindicated in him. God was vindicated in all that He said about Job but then God takes up the inward work in Job. God vindicates Himself in taking you up; you pay your debts, and so you do not discredit God. A good Roman believer justifies God, and God is justified in him; so that he can be here in connection with the tabernacle. If you are in the truth of Romans you are a righteous man; you love the brethren, and God is not ashamed of you. But all that is short of the inheritance.
Ques. Would you say there is formation in Romans 8?
J.T. No; it is alluded to in that chapter, but it is not developed. You have sufficient means to discharge every obligation, so that you are righteous, publicly; you do not discredit God; hence God can set you up in relation to the tabernacle.
Ques. Where do we first get formation?
J.T. In Colossians and Ephesians.
E.J.McB. I suppose Romans 8 deals more with the Spirit than with the believer?
J.T. Yes; the Spirit is the subject, and chapter 8 shows that there is enough to qualify you, and set you up here, so that you do not discredit God. In Exodus 17 we have the water, and we have Joshua; then we have the covenant, which opens up the heart of God to us, and all that is found in Romans; therefore the believer in the light of Romans is qualified for the tabernacle.
E.J.McB. In speaking of the inheritance which Moses gives, it is not merely the portion given to the two-and-a-half tribes, but all that system of things that came to them through Moses.
J.T. Yes, all the tabernacle system; the light of it is there.
E.N.H. While some may only have the truths of righteousness, liberty, and sonship, God would have us to pass over to the other side.
J.T. Yes; if you get hold of the thought of Christ being in you -- you are now on Joshua's line, because the Spirit acts of Himself; before you come to Jordan the Spirit "springs up", John 4:14. If Christ be in you, you have headship. And if Christ has full sway in your heart, He will lead you on to the inheritance
Ques Is "If Christ be in you" individual?
J.T. Well yes; in Romans I think it is. "If Christ be in you, the body is dead" -- not your bodies are dead Romans 8:10.
R.L. Would there be any connection between Joshua 1:6: "Be strong and of a good courage: for unto this people shalt thou divide for an inheritance the land which I sware unto their fathers to give them", and the armour referred to in Ephesians 6?
J.T. When Christ gets a place in the soul there is no more consideration for the flesh. And the circumstances you encounter are terrible to the flesh. It is altogether different from wilderness circumstances.
R.L. Yes; that is what we get in Ephesians. We are to be strong in the Lord.
J.T. Yes. Now you are in the circumstances where there is no consideration for the flesh; it is the territory in which you have no sympathy whatsoever outside of the Spirit. We need the whole armour of God here.
E.N.H. I should like a little help on verse 4.
J.T. If your home is in the land you can influence to any extent. The hindrance is that we endeavour to influence the land from the wilderness side; that would be using position, or anything that you have in the world, to influence the assembly.
W.K. If that were to be the right thing to do, Moses should have stayed in Pharaoh's court, for Moses was in the best position anybody ever had been for that purpose.
J.T. You may influence as much as you can from Canaan, because the influence there is right; it is heavenly.
R.L. In Deuteronomy 1 you get the same extent of territory. It was the divine thought that Israel should influence all that territory but the limit of their dwelling place was to be Canaan. Jordan was to be a boundary.
J.B. Will you say a little about the possession?
J.T. It is Christ that puts us into possession. There is the reception of the Spirit, the work of the
Spirit, and then Christ in the saints, And "if Christ be in you, the body is dead" -- there is conquest so far.
J.B. Have we arrived at a certain judgment when that takes place?
J.T. I think we are conscious that Christ controls us; one may be quite conscious of being controlled by Christ; so it makes room for headship, and you are led into possession of the inheritance in that way.
W.H. Do you connect the thought of leadership with Christ in you?
J.T. Yes -- Joshua's leadership; whereas the leadership of Moses is Christ as Lord, and His authority expressed through His apostles, and if needs be, the elders. You see in the assembly there were not only apostles, there were elders ordained in every city. Now the elders represent the authority of Christ -- most necessary for young believers in the house of God; but no elder could put you in possession of the inheritance.
E.N.H. An elder may not lead you into the inheritance, but what he can do is to control things, and maintain divine order.
J.T. Christ in you is subjective. If people are governed by a council, or by an archbishop, or bishop, or a pope, that is perfectly intelligible to the world but the mystery of "Christ in you" they cannot understand.
W.H. Speaking of outward order, that would be greatly helped if the internal thing were right; that is to say, Christ in you.
W.K. Is it not interesting that in Colossians the outward order is referred to: "Though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ". Colossians 2:5. And so then the question of formation comes in in connection with a company in that way maintaining what was suitable to the locality.
J.T. Yes, that is a good point; showing that the Colossian was formed; there was order there. But then that was all short of the inheritance.
Ques. Does "Christ in you" lead on to the thought of Christ in you (collectively), the hope of glory?
J.T. Yes, I think so. It is a wonderful thing that Christ would have a place in the Gentiles' hearts.
Ques. In view of all this, what encouragement, or comfort, would we be warranted in taking from verse 5 of this chapter: "There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life; as I was with Moses so will I be with thee: I will not fail thee nor forsake thee". Joshua 1:5.
J.T. Well, that is Christ in you. Nothing can stand before Christ in us.
Ques. Are we to count upon a life of victory?
J.T. Yes, you are; "if Christ be in you the body is dead"; well there can be nothing feared from a corpse. Later the body is presented to God "as a living sacrifice". Romans 12:1. This shows that it is now energised by the Spirit, and so under control.
E.J.McB. They were not able to resist Stephen; no man could stand before him.
J.T. Quite so; there was a man in whom Christ was. And so in regard to Paul; no man could stand before him.
J.T. Yes; the time had not come for the development of the land, but he saw it.
R.L. "If Christ be in you". What is the force of that?
J.T. The force of it is that the Spirit has so wrought that He has formed a body for Christ -- there is a place for Him. The mere reception of the Spirit is not enough for that.
Ques. In what way does Satan seek to prevent that?
J.T. By working through the flesh. The flesh would seek to assert itself directly you receive the Spirit. The flesh has its own claims, and puts them forward.
E.J.McB. If Christ be in you the body is dead. Prior to Christ being in you, will was there.
J.T. Yes, and Moses, so to speak, had been helping Joshua. Joshua is not enough. The flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit is against the flesh, but ultimately the Spirit overcomes, and Christ comes in. The apostle's great desire was that Christ might be formed in the Galatians. Not that there should be a sort of mongrel -- an Ishmael -- "a wild-ass of a man" Genesis 16:12. The responsibility was with Abraham to cast out the bondwoman and her son. Sarah had a typically right state; she would not have that lad there mocking her son. Now Jerusalem above is our mother. Sarah's state was right, but the responsible person was Abraham. Both are combined in the believer. So you are responsible, and when your state is right, you act, and you cast out the bond-woman and her son. Now it may be that you love Christ, but you want to retain that unnatural system; but God will not have it. That is the line the apostle is on in Galatians; and he was really travailing about it, it was such a serious matter.
Rem. Abraham failed over Ishmael.
J.T. He did; but it is simply nature. He brought it all on himself. Ishmael is a remarkable character: the product of a human contrivance to bring about the will of God.
Rem. That is really religious flesh.
J.T. Yes; it is often found in young believers; they do not see the "Almighty God", and they set about to bring things to pass in their own way; to make contrivances; and there is a mixed state brought about in the soul. But, really, it would be much better to be without it, because you have the
painful exercise of casting out your own product. Then after Ishmael is brought in, God says: "I am the Almighty God" Genesis 17:1 -- meaning that there is power available to bring in a true son. Just wait; have patience; have Christ before you, and the Spirit will work through your exercises to form Him in you, and you will have true happiness. Now, the next thing is that after Christ is formed in you, you make a feast for Him; you so recognise Him that you make celebration for Him and that is the day in which Ishmael mocks.
R.L. There is no attempt at all to mend Ishmael.
J.T. No; the word is, 'Cast him out'. He is not to inherit with Isaac. Christ is now in possession. Although Isaac was only a babe he was the chief figure in the house. And what is to be noted is, that he could not do anybody any harm; he was only a babe. A child of that age is most attractive. And therefore it shows what a character Ishmael was; he mocked that child. Sometimes you wonder why people persecute you; but it shows what Ishmael is -- the man after the flesh.
E.M. The man after the flesh cannot tolerate the spiritual man.
J.T. He persecutes him that is born after the Spirit. It is the product of the Spirit that Ishmael hates.
R.L. There was nothing insubject about Ishmael previously; it was only when Isaac got his place that he mocked.
J.T. You may be a popular preacher, provided you have not "Christ in you". It is remarkable how popular preaching has become in certain quarters. I know thousands of people flock to hear popular preachers -- but, what about Christ being formed in the preacher? If Christ be formed in him the religious world will attack him at once. You will find that it is Christ in the person that is attacked. It is not Christ in heaven.
L. As soon as Isaac got his place, the mocking commences.
J.T. We do not read of Ishmael saying anything about Isaac when he was born, it was when he was given his place in the house.
E.J.McB. It was when Isaac was weaned, that is, when he was independent of natural resource, that the attack was made.
R. Will you say another word about being free of fleshly resource?
E.J.McB. There comes a time in the believer's history when the sense of the sufficiency of Christ puts him on his own feet; and it is at that time Ishmael comes in to mock. I do not think anything is of greater objection to Satan than to see a believer really sustained by Christ. I think Ishmael knew very well that when Isaac was weaned, everything was for Isaac.
J.T. It works out in the same way collectively, too. If we resolve to be governed by Christ and His principles, the religious world will persecute us for it. This would do away with all the systems of Christendom.
W.K. I hope it will be seriously thought of, what was said about a mongrel Christian -- part Spirit, and part flesh. What we seek for is that Christ should be formed in us.
J.T. The great aim of the apostle in Colossians was that Christ should be "everything, and in all". That is the great end down here. Satan opposes that, and if Christ gets His place in our hearts He will put us in possession of our heavenly portion.
J.T. What occupied us mainly was the place which Joshua holds as a type. He appears first in Exodus 17, where at Rephidim the water flowed from the smitten rock: and as they drank they were attacked by Amalek. Amalek signifies in type Satan acting through the flesh to set aside the operations of the Spirit in the believer. So Joshua appears there, to undertake the conflict against Amalek. And then it was pointed out that he is viewed as Moses' attendant, or minister; he accompanied Moses up to the mount when he received the instructions in regard to the tabernacle. On returning with Moses, after Moses had pitched the tabernacle outside the camp, we are told that "Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle", Exodus 33:11. It was pointed out further that Joshua therefore typically represents Christ as supporting us objectively in connection with the work of the Spirit subjectively, so as to introduce us into the inheritance. Then finally we saw that the answer to Joshua as a type is seen in Romans 8 and in Colossians 1:27 -- "Christ in you".
E.J.McB. I think it would be well just to make the remark that one point of considerable importance in the minds of many in the reading this morning was the distinction between the inheritance as under Moses, and the inheritance as under Joshua. Under Moses the will is subdued, and in Joshua you have the thought of a spiritual state that is capable of entering into the spiritual inheritance.
W.K. In what way then does chapter 5 fit into those things of which you have just spoken?
J.T. It is adjustment for the new place. Christ in the saints involves that we are over Jordan. I
think chapter 5 shows us the needed adjustment of soul so that we should be in accord with Him in the new place.
J.M. Is that why circumcision comes in?
J.T. Yes, because circumcision is to set aside what may attach to us as in the flesh; and circumcision occasions a wound which has to be healed.
J.M. Will you say a little more on that.
J.T. I think healing results from our coming in mind to resurrection: We are risen "by the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead". Colossians 2:12. Circumcision precedes resurrection in Colossians 2. Resurrection gives you a status outside the flesh, and so makes you independent of the flesh.
W.H. Is that why it says that the reproach might be rolled away?
J.T. Yes; there was power seen in their crossing Jordan; therefore their arrival in Canaan occasioned terror to the inhabitants and it says of the Canaanites "that their heart melted, neither was there spirit in them any more because of the children of Israel" Joshua 5:1 -- not because of God, or even because of Joshua, but because of the children of Israel. That is where the danger lies; so "At the time the Lord said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time", Joshua 5:2.
W.P.W. In what way does this differ from what we have in Romans 8:13, "if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body", etc.? How does it come in, in connection with the circumcision here, at the other side of the Jordan?
J.T. It is found fully in Colossians 3:5. "Put to death therefore your members". Colossians 2 is position, and chapter 3 is maintaining yourself in the light of the position; in accord with it; whereas in Romans 8:13 it is "if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live". That does not
go so far as "Put to death therefore your members which are upon the earth". Colossians 3:5. In Colossians the links are cut with the earth.
E.J.McB. Does not Romans 8 show you more the possibilities of having the Spirit rather than the question of mortifying the deeds of the body, "if ye through the Spirit", etc.? Romans 8 suggests that there is the capability for it.
J.T. And in Romans 8:13 it is simply to "live", "if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live". Colossians gives the full bearing of circumcision: it is to cut the connection with the earth it is "mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth". Colossians 3:5.
W.K. "This day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from off you", Joshua 5:9.
J.T. We have to see that the new position which is involved in Christ being in us necessitates the abandoning of everything that would give us a status on the earth.
T.M.G. Colossians 2 is the position, chapter 3 is the correspondence with the position.
W.K. So that circumcision would not only cut you off from the old bad stock, but would separate you from everything that connects with the former system of things here.
E.J.McB. I thought a statement at the commencement of the meeting would bear more consideration. In circumcision you have a wound, and the wound has to be healed, and there is no healing apart from the activity of life in the Spirit.
E.M. So you would say the more we advance the more particular is the adjustment.
J.T. Yes the more you advance the more you need adjustment.
E.M. To what did you refer when you mentioned about the terror coming on the Canaanites, and that that was where the danger came in?
J.T. Well, that is the origin of Gilgal; it begins there. So they always had to come back to Gilgal. The danger is that people begin to take notice of you because of any little bit of spiritual power you have -- "Make thee sharp knives". Joshua 5:2. If you rest in the recognition that is accorded you because of the power you have, you are spoiled for the moment; hence the wound, and it signifies the cutting off of the flesh; not simply in the bad sense, but in the sense in which you would be recognised here. So that the spiritual signification of it is that "the flesh profits nothing". John 6:63. Indeed, it is a reproach in the new sphere.
R.L. Did they always come back to Gilgal -- not merely after failure, but after victory?
J.T. That was God's mind. The camp was to be kept there.
F.M. Is circumcision a self-inflicted wound?
J.T. Abraham was enjoined to circumcise. It is a great thing to see that it is in the light of the power of God. It is insisted on here, although it was allowed to lapse in the wilderness.
W.K. God does not do it. He shows you what has to be done.
J.T. We have what might be termed positional circumcision. The flesh has been rejected in the circumcision of Christ. "Put to death therefore your members which are on the earth". Colossians 3:5. That refers to the things that put you in touch with the earth, where you get recognition.
A.N. Would that be the bearing of the second circumcision. The first was more positional; here it would be more practical?
J.T. There was really very little made of circumcision in the wilderness. What gives us a position in the wilderness is baptism.
A.N. I was thinking of verse 2; "Make thee sharp knives and circumcise again the children of
Israel the second time". Joshua 5:2. It had taken place before?
J.T. It was assumed to be present in Israel from the time of Abraham; those who came out of Egypt were circumcised, but those born in the wilderness were not. It refers to the working of the flesh; not now in the doing of bad things, as we speak; but the flesh taking advantage of the moral power that you have by the Spirit, clothing itself with the power that comes in by the Spirit. If you have the Spirit, you are sure to be distinguished in some sense. Well, the flesh takes account of that, and clothes itself with it. Here the Canaanites were afraid; it does not say of God, but of the children of Israel. The flesh would accredit itself with that; hence the necessity for circumcision. So that circumcision is obviously necessary in people that have the Spirit. Very wonderful things happened in the passage of the Jordan. Indeed Joshua tells the people, "the Lord will do wonders among you", Joshua 3:5. They were a wonderful people, and now they are in Canaan, and the danger is that the flesh should accredit itself with all this.
W.M. Nothing but the total setting aside of the flesh will do.
J.T. That is it. Unless the flesh is refused it will be stronger now than it ever was before. There must be no sparing of the flesh; it is an intolerable enemy and, unless judged, it will take advantage of any little victory acquired to accredit itself with it.
E.J.McB. As to this question of circumcising yourself; it says here that Joshua made him sharp knives. I would make the suggestion that circumcision is an act of spiritual power.
J.T. I think that is right; and I think if the Lord Jesus has a place amongst us He insists upon it. You will find it coming out in ministry by the Spirit; there is persistent insistence on the necessity for circumcision. We see it in Moses when he was
returning from the wilderness after having been there for 40 years; the Lord met him; He was going to slay him! That would seem unaccountable -- He was actually going to slay him after all that 40 years discipline! The secret of it was there was no circumcision. So Moses circumcises his two children; and his wife says, "Surely a bloody husband thou art to me", Exodus 4:25. Our Moses will not go on with us unless we are truly circumcised.
J.M. So if Christ has His place in our hearts circumcision must follow.
J.T. Yes; if Christ is in you, if He has a throne in your heart He is not going to relinquish it, and He insists on circumcision. That is not individual only, it is also collective; it is a principle that must be in the company.
J.T. The passover is that you celebrate what Christ suffered. The people did suffer, but there is no celebration for the suffering of the flesh. I think it is very suggestive of their spiritual intelligence here typically, that after they were whole they celebrated the passover. It signifies that you now have regard to Christ as having suffered in the flesh for you.
W.M. It is an expression of appreciation of what Christ has done.
J.T. Yes, that is what it is; and now you get the heavenly food -- the old corn.
Ques. What is the meaning of their returning to Gilgal after victory?
J.T. You go back in your soul to the fact that the victory was by God's power, and not by your flesh.
Rem. It would really answer to what we get in Peter: "arm yourselves with the same mind". 1 Peter 4:1.
J.T. That is the principle; "he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin". 1 Peter 4:1. You are made to feel in your flesh the suffering due to the flesh. But the passover recognises the suffering of
Christ, and that brings you to God. As was said yesterday, it would be a very good question to ask, 'Why do I come to the assembly?' But the next question is, 'How am I to be there?' Am I adjusted to the new position?
Rem. You were going to say the old corn comes into view, and the manna ceases, after the passover.
J.T. Yes; you leave wilderness circumstances for the moment. Christ suffered in the flesh for sin. As we feed on Christ as seen in the passover we are prepared to feed on Him as He is now, in heaven.
R.L. What is the point of the apostle exhorting the Corinthians to keep the feast?
J.T. The point there is the kind of bread they were to keep it with -- "not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth", 1 Corinthians 5:8. There may be a general recognition of the death of Christ, but what about the bread you eat? Let us keep the feast with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. The Lord Jesus is our Passover; He sacrificed Himself for us. Our side is to supply the unleavened bread.
Ques. Is that adjustment to the new position?
J.T. It is more adjustment in the relation to testimony as before the world. Corinthians is what we are toward the world. We had it this morning that a Roman believer is suited for the position involved in Corinthians; he is suited for the tabernacle; God is justified in him. When you come to circumcision, it is that you might be suited to God's sphere; that there might be adjustment to the sphere in which Christ is. There is suffering in the flesh in the recognition of Christ's sufferings; and then you pass on to what He is now, to feed upon the old corn of the land.
E.J.McB. What helps about the truth in Corinthians is the fact that if a stranger were to come into
the assembly he would take account of the things there, very beautiful things, too, the moral order, etc. What we are now dwelling on is the spiritual order of things and the flesh would accredit itself with having a place in that order.
Ques. Is that why circumcision takes place in the land and not in the wilderness?
E.J.McB. I thought so. The moment Isaac comes into view in Abraham's day circumcision comes into view. Here, when you begin to move in the sphere which is proper to Isaac, circumcision becomes a practical necessity.
J.T. Coming now to the previous question -- the assembly, How are you going to be there?
J.M. Would it not be well for us to be exercised on that point, and not simply to go on with any kind of meetings?
J.T. Yes; the meetings have, one fears, to a very large extent, taken the place of "the church", as we say. We come to the meetings just religiously.
J.M. So your two questions would require to be raised in each of our souls; that is, to have it settled as to why we come, and also when we are there how are we there?
W.H. Why would you come? That is the first question.
J.T. I come to break bread. We were pointing out yesterday as to Matthew 18:20, that it does not say there 'Where two or three come together', but "where two or three are gathered together unto my name there am I in the midst of them" whereas in Acts 20:7, it says, "the disciples came together". That was from their side. That was the connection in which we raised the question, 'Why do I come?' If by authority you are brought together, then it is not a question of your desire exactly; it is more the desire of the One who gathers you.
T.M.G. That is Matthew 18.
J.T. Yes; but if you come of your own volition; well, why do you come? The answer is given in the passage in Acts 20:7, "the disciples came together to break bread". So they had a definite end in view of coming together.
W.H. Of course each one was desirous to come.
J.T. Yes; they loved Jesus: and as His disciples they came together, and that for a purpose, namely, to break bread. They found a mutual bond of sympathy. The thought of being together necessarily precedes the breaking of bread; otherwise when you come you could proceed to break the bread; but then you might arrive first! You could not break bread by yourself. We must tarry one for another. The saints must be together first before they can break bread.
E.M. How are you going to be there?
J.T. Well according to this chapter, I am not to be there in any sense as recognised in the flesh; even though I may be a man of spiritual power, I am simply there as one of those who love the Lord; and I take no credit whatever for anything. The flesh has no place in it.
E.J.McB. Nor am I proud of the fact that I have suffered in the flesh. It is the suffering of Christ that holds me. Every spiritual person must of necessity have suffering in order to reach the spiritual order of things, but he does not accredit himself with that. Hence the necessity for the passover.
J.T. So that as together in the assembly we are not grieving for anything we may have had to suffer, nor for anything we may have had to give up.
J.M. In that way we are free to feed on Christ, as seen in the old corn of the land.
M. Why were the unleavened cakes and the parched corn partaken of in the "selfsame day"? Joshua 5:11.
J.T. It is very fitting, surely, that there should be no leaven in the food we eat in Canaan. It is
quite in order that it should be made into cakes; that is to say, put into form to be food for the saints, but then there is no leaven; there is no taint there of sin. There is one other point before we close, as to the order observed in this chapter. You have circumcision, the passover, the old corn, and now, finally, you have the military leadership. All this involves adjustment for the new place and the conflict that is consequent on entering the new place.
E.M. Does this suppose that you are not yet in full possession?
J.T. Yes, this is all preparatory to taking possession. We have not yet gone up.
W.K. You have the title to it.
J.T. Yes; the title is all here; but this is in order to prepare the army so that there should be no defeat. I think the "captain of the host of the Lord" Joshua 5:14 suggests that Christ is to be known in a new way. Joshua disappears here as a type; he has to learn here as well as the rest.
J.T. Well, I think Christ becomes increasingly magnified as you proceed; so that it is not now simply Joshua; the one that Moses had put his hands on; Christ had become magnified. Joshua says, "Art thou for us, or for our adversaries". The answer is "Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come". Joshua 5:13,14. That is Christ magnified.
Ques. Is it the suggestion of Christ as Head?
J.T. We are on military ground now. Hostile power in the heavenlies has to be met, and Christ is known as Captain; but there is also the thought of Christ becoming magnified in your soul.
W.H. He is magnified in our appreciation of Him.
J.T. Yes; so that gradually you come to this, that all power is subjected to Christ. Now if Joshua
had been equal to this, he would not have had the painful lessons depicted in chapters 7, 8 and 9.
Rem. The Captain of the host of the Lord was neither for them, nor for their adversaries.
J.M. All this is the education of soul, in order that we may give Christ His rightful place.
J.T. Yes; and you are lifted up from the littleness of party feeling -- "Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?" Joshua 5:13. Look at the dignity of belonging to "the army of Jehovah!"
E.J.McB. And then you are asked to put your shoes off. You have no standing there.
J.T. We are now to change our ground. There can be no party feeling there; it is holy ground. The Lord Jesus is Prince of the host of Jehovah. Chapter 6 is to show how the conflict begins; the earlier chapters are preparatory. In chapter 6 the host of Jehovah is marshalled; the people are in order, and the priests, typically those that are near to Christ, have the prominent place; and there are the trumpets. They point to the place that Christ held in the hearts of the apostles as they announced the testimony; the vigour and intelligence with which the message was announced in the ministry of the apostles. Chapter 6 shows how the conflict begins in a most remarkable way; they have not to strike a blow. The city walls fall down as the ark is carried around. This chapter denotes the character of divine order in conflict. It is as if God would say to the people, 'All is to be in My power'. It brings down the flesh. Compare 1 Corinthians 2:1 - 5.
Joshua 21:1 - 19, 43 - 45
J.M. For the benefit of those who were not present this morning, will you kindly outline what we had before us, and link it up with this chapter.
J.T. We read chapter 14 with the object of considering the inheritance, and distinguishing between the inheritance given by Moses and that given by Eleazar and Joshua. It was pointed out that the two-and-a-half tribes were content with what Moses gave (the epistle to the Romans answers to this), whereas the other tribes, whilst they also had what the two-and-a-half had, had a good deal more. It was pointed out that chapter 10 suggests to us in antitype the man in Christ; that is, Joshua being honoured by heaven. It is stated that there never was a day before nor after, that the Lord hearkened to the voice of a man. This shows in type how a man in Christ is honoured, or, as we may say, how Christ Himself is honoured, by heaven. We saw how Caleb illustrates the man in Christ as having an appreciation of the heavenly portion, and having the energy of soul to lay hold of it and to possess it.
W.K. Just say a word or two more as to the difference between what Moses gave and what Eleazar and Joshua gave.
J.T. What Moses gave in the antitype does not go beyond the gift of the Spirit; so, as I said, the epistle to the Romans answers to it; whereas what Eleazar and Joshua gave not only implies the gift of the Spirit, but the place in which we have the blessing; and the epistle to the Ephesians opens up the place where we are blessed with all spiritual blessings -- in the heavenly places in Christ; that is to say, the emphasis is on the place where we have the blessings.
E.J.McB. In connecting the reading which we had yesterday afternoon with that of this morning we saw that the period in the book in which you get the history of the failure and breakdown -- what occurred both at Ai and in connection with the craft of the Gibeonites -- brought about a subduedness that enabled Joshua to go out as we see him in chapter 10. Caleb cherished in his heart the divine inheritance all the time he wandered with the people in the wilderness.
J.T. It is very interesting to see in Revelation that the failure being fully owned, the Lord returns to expressions which imply the assembly's relationship with Him. The body of the book of Revelation is prophetic, and marked by distance, but when we come to the end (chapter 22) He announces Himself as "Jesus"; not now the Man clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle; not now with eyes as a flame of fire, and feet like fine brass; but the Man who is known in the Gospels: "I Jesus (He says) have sent mine angel to testify those things to you in the assemblies. I am the root and offspring of David, the bright and morning star", Revelation 22:16. He returns in measure to the simplicity of things in regard to the assembly at the beginning. And what is so encouraging is that there is an answer to that on earth; "the Spirit and the bride say, Come". Revelation 22:17. It is really the appreciation of such a Man as Jesus and the appreciation of that Man -- of Jesus -- saves us from the appreciation of such a man as Antichrist, who is the very opposite.
J.M. Would not that indicate that recovery is through the affections?
J.T. Yes, quite so; Joshua 10 presents to us a man (Joshua), one who is dependent on God, who is the very opposite to Antichrist. I think it is very solemn that Antichrist springs out of church
history. He really is a development of the light that has come in in Christianity taken up by man in the flesh; it is a monstrosity that is produced; a six fingered and six toed man. Whereas Jesus is the very opposite, and He presents Himself as such; and the assembly appreciates Him; and this shows that there has been recovery.
E.J.McB. Then we just touched on the different measures of appreciation, as seen in Caleb, and the daughters of Zelophehad, and the Levites.
J.T. Caleb, I think, represents the intelligence formed by the Spirit as to the inheritance, and the spiritual energy that goes with that; that is to say, he never grew old or weary; he was as fit at 85 as he had been at 40. He had all the ability for enjoyment and for war, that he had when he was 40 years old. Then the daughters of Zelophehad refer to that affection which desires the inheritance among the brethren. It is where you want it. Caleb says nothing about the brethren; whereas the daughters of Zelophehad want the inheritance, and they wanted it among the brethren. That is a very great point for Christians, as to where you want the blessings. You do not want your Christianity to adorn you in the world; you want it amongst the brethren.
Ques. What do you mean by, amongst the brethren?
J.T. Well, you want to have all your enjoyment amongst them. It shows that you love them; that is your home.
E.J.McB. "I dwell among mine own people". 2 Kings 4:13.
W.K. That is, Christ's brethren.
J.T. Yes; your own tribe, so to speak. It was the brethren of their father's house.
W.H. The things that are to be permanently enjoyed are placed there.
J.T. Yes. Of course you have the Spirit in yourself as an individual; but then you want to
enjoy all the fruits of the Spirit among the brethren, and that answers to the gospel, because the gospel presents the inheritance among the brethren -- "the sanctified", Acts 26:18.
M. What do you understand by the brethren?
J.T. We are all sons of one Father. The daughters of Zelophehad wanted the inheritance among the brethren of their father's house -- the tribe of Manasseh. Now, that is where you want to enjoy things. You do not want a select society in the world that is suited to your status in the world; your society is the circle of the saints -- the brethren; they are the brethren that belong to your Father's house.
Ques. Why does it say "the Spirit and the bride" Revelation 22:17; does it refer to the assembly?
M. What authority have you for saying so?
J.T. The angel says, "I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife", Revelation 21:9. The foundations of the wall are twelve, "and on them twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb". Revelation 21:14. There is not much difficulty in identifying them as the founders of the assembly.
E.J.McB. Besides, He sent His angel to testify these things to the assemblies, and the response is; "the Spirit and the bride say, Come". Revelation 22:17.
J.T. It is well to remember that the background of that is the anti-Christian period here. The bride does not want anyone else but Jesus; the Spirit and the bride want Jesus.
Ques. Has the cry of the Spirit and the bride gone forth yet?
J.T. I think so; I think Jesus has been announcing Himself these years.
E.J.McB. The coming is not an arbitrary idea; the saints long for Him, and He comes.
J.P.W. Does it not imply that the bride is completely in accord with Him?
J.T. That the Spirit and the bride want Him, and that shows the completeness of recovery.
J.T. Yes, I think so, from the time of the Lord's word to Philadelphia onward.
J.P.W. The revival has already come.
Rem. The message was sent to the angel of the assembly; that was not to the whole assembly.
J.T. The angel is the responsible element in the assembly and who will say, he is not responsible? We cannot say that the angel is some individual or individuals, it is the element of responsibility, and anyone who says he is not responsible is not really in fellowship.
R.L. What about the Scripture now before us?
J.T. Well, what we had before us for this afternoon was that we might consider the Levites; not the Levites as presented in Numbers, but as presented in Joshua. In this book (Joshua) they represent a specially privileged class.
W.H. In Joshua they are evidently placed in connection with the whole inheritance.
J.T. You mean that they had cities in it all. That is the idea exactly. The Levites set forth those who are in accord with heaven -- "the assembly of the firstborn ones". Hebrews 12:23. God would influence you from heaven, wherever you go, hence there were cities on the other side of Jordan, as well as in Canaan. If you are content to stay there with your cattle -- near them -- God will seek to influence you there. God will do all in His power to keep His people, and hence He sets heavenly influences adjacent to you. We can understand how these forty-eight cities scattered over the whole nation would have an influence.
J.M. Would you say that it is those who are in
the enjoyment of their heavenly portion that are a real help and influence to the isolated saints in every place. When what is heavenly comes out, everyone gets benefit from it.
J.T. That is the thought. Of course it is not that there is a class of saints regarded as Levites in this sense; because we are all regarded as Levites. The cities of refuge were levitical cities, and the intention was, that the man-slayer should find a heavenly atmosphere in those cities. One great idea of a city in Scripture is that it is a centre of influence.
J.P.W. Is the thought in the cities here a greater thing than what Caleb got?
J.T. O, quite; it is a higher thought. The Levites had no inheritance among the people. Firstly, it is said in Joshua 13:14 "The sacrifices of the Lord God of Israel made by fire are their inheritance"; then secondly, verse 33, "the Lord God of Israel was their inheritance". The Lord Himself was their portion; and they had the priesthood. Finally we are brought back to the thought of God about them, that there were forty-eight cities (four times twelve), to be allotted to them; showing that the assembly at the present time is to be what it will be in the future when it comes out of heaven; that it is to be a predominating influence. So that we should be ever exercised as to what influence we exert over others.
J.F.W. Does the Christian now get not only Caleb's inheritance, but also the cities of the Levites?
J.T. Well, you have to view Caleb in another light. He represents the energy that lays hold of the inheritance.
E.J.McB. In these three cases you have Caleb representing spiritual energy in the appreciation of the inheritance; then in the daughters of Zelophehad you have the moral side: they want the inheritance among their brethren; and then you have the Levites claiming their cities.
J.T. Yes, that is the order. I think it is helpful to point out that the tribe of Levi comes in for special recognition in connection with the failure of Israel at the time of the making of the golden calf. The Levites then took sides with Moses; they took sides with the Lord. Moses had said, "Who is on the Lord's side?" Exodus 32:26 and the tribe of Levi responded to the call. And the Spirit's comment on that afterwards is that he did not recognise his father, his mother, or his brethren: "Who said to his father and to his mother, I see him not", Deuteronomy 33:9. That is one great feature of the Levites; they were concerned about the rights of God in the camp. The Levites judged the evil of the camp.
E.J.McB. Then another intensely interesting thought in connection with it, and the way in which the Scripture presents it, is that the land was divided, and then you have the Levites coming to the front; that is, they are to influence what is divided. It is an immense thing that the divine influence is brought to bear on that. That the inheritance may be preserved to us, and we to it.
M. You referred to the spiritual blessings in the heavenlies. What are they?
J.T. Whatever blessings there are, we are blessed with all or every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ. The point is, where we have them. The place enhances the blessings.
M. If we are blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus, why do we ask God to bless His people now?
J.T. Because the blessings have to be made good to us by the Spirit. The epistle to the Ephesians presents God's thought for us in its absoluteness, apart from the fact of whether it has come to pass for each individual or not. It is from the divine side there; but as regards our side, we have to be brought into them; and the first point is -- Do you desire
those blessings? Now Caleb had desire for them, and the daughters of Zelophehad had theirs, and the Levites had their desire; whereas the two-and-a-half tribes had not the desire; so that, typically speaking, they missed the blessings in the heavenlies, though they did not miss the Spirit.
T.M.G. The apostle prayed that the Ephesians might know these things. Now why should he pray in that way if there were no need?
J.M. It is quite clear to me with regard to the type that the Levites had no inheritance in the land, but they had cities to dwell in and the suburbs. How would you apply that at the present time The inheritance is the portion of the whole assembly, but how is the blessedness of the inheritance maintained for God's people now?
J.T. Well, I think it is in the hands of the Levites to do that. You see, they had the sacrifices, and they had Jehovah for their hearts' portion, and they had the priesthood as their service; so that in that way, they were constituted able to influence after a heavenly order.
J.M. That supposes, does it not, that there are those who do not go in for their heavenly portion -- they linger, so to speak.
E.J.McB. It would have been a sorry thing for the two-and-a-half tribes had it not been for the levitical influence.
S.L. Will you kindly say what the inheritance is?
J.T. Well, it is what is heavenly in the way of association and relationship with Christ. There is a spiritual inheritance which is said to be reserved in heaven for us, unfading and undefiled. What there is in the way of association with Christ in heavenly glory, and the part we have in that now with each other, and in the Father's affections, is ours.
E.J.McB. I think the practical exercise for us is that, just as Israel was called out of Egypt to enter
into Canaan, so we have been called by God to enter into a vast system of things that He has taken up in Christ, and we are called to enjoy the inheritance. They are not material things.
J.T. The true levitical idea is properly seen in Deuteronomy 33:9: "Who said unto his father and to his mother, I have not seen him; neither did he acknowledge his brethren, nor knew his own children: for they have observed thy word and kept thy covenant". It is in the disallowance of the natural claims that you come into it. So long as natural claims are prior to spiritual claims we never come into what is levitical in the light of Joshua. The Lord said to His mother, "Woman, what have I to do with thee?" John 2:4. There was the disallowance of the natural claim, because it was a question of what was spiritual. If you disallow the natural, you come into the spiritual; and the heavenly inheritance is really the system of affections that are set up there in relation to Christ.
Ques. Do the cities in any way answer to the Lord's people gathered in any place?
J.T. Yes, the city suggests the assembly as a centre of light and rule and influence.
J.T. Locally, or otherwise. That is, the forty-eight cities suggest localities.
J.M. The truth of the whole would be found in any locality?
J.T. Yes, each city would set forth the heavenly in that locality.
J.M. Would the cities represent what is heavenly and spiritual?
J.T. But you will never find that, unless you begin by the disallowing of the natural. They began by using the sword. "Who is on the Lord's side", said Moses, as he stood in the gate of the camp, "let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi
gathered themselves together unto him". Then Moses directed them to use the sword; and each one was to go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp and slay his brother and his companion and his neighbour, Exodus 32:26, 27.
Ques. What is meant by the natural?
J.T. Allowing natural relationships to influence you when it is a question of the rights of God.
E.M. I suppose every natural relationship is to be influenced from the inside circle. The children are addressed both in Colossians and Ephesians.
J.T. Yes; you get more about the family relationship in Colossians and Ephesians than anywhere else; and yet these are the epistles that make everything of the spiritual. There is nothing said about the children at Jordan. I think going over Jordan is entirely a spiritual thing when you come to the antitype. I do not think that anything of nature goes over, nor does any natural relationship go over, nor is there any recognition of natural relationships over Jordan. As a matter of fact, Jordan is a type of the end of the human life, with all the relationships attached to it.
W.K. While it is quite true what you say, that the crossing of the Jordan is of necessity a purely spiritual idea, yet family relationships are looked at in connection with those who have actually crossed the Jordan; they are spoken of in that connection in Colossians and Ephesians.
J.T. The inference is that they went over; but when you come to the antitype, a man's family is not over Jordan. Going over Jordan is, spiritually, the end of human life.
E.J.McB. If you take the New Testament epistles which deal with the question of family relationships, they are taken up by a person who has passed over Jordan. We take up relationships here as those who have already passed over.
J.T. You cannot take anybody over Jordan; you have to go over yourself; but as regards your family, you cannot take it out of the wilderness. You may come back into the wilderness and influence your family out of Canaan.
W.K. Does the position of the two-and-a-half tribes represent those who have a heavenly place themselves?
J.T. Yes; but the mistake of the two-and-a-half tribes was that they lived there instead of in Canaan. A Christian household is in the wilderness, and that is why you baptise it. Baptism brings it on to that position. But then the heads of the families of believers have the Spirit, and as spiritual they can go over Jordan, and, as having gone over, they come back to the family and influence it; so that you are a good husband and a good head to your children. You are that because of your knowledge of the heavenly things.
J.M. The reason families are mentioned both in Colossians and Ephesians is that the saints are there looked at as being in the enjoyment of what is heavenly. But then so long as we are here, there is another side; we have to take up our responsibilities both in business and in the household; and we influence both from the Canaan side, because we have ourselves crossed over Jordan, and we belong to the Canaan side; and that is where the families come in in those epistles. So that no doubt the position where the responsibilities are taken up answers to where the two-and-a-half tribes lived. It is only as living in the enjoyment of the inheritance that you can possibly take it up according to God.
J.T. Yes; so that viewing it anti-typically I would say that the households of the Gadites and the Reubenites would not be good Christian households; at best they could but remember what they saw in Canaan when they were there; it would be
a matter of memory. When the two-and-a-half tribes were in Canaan, they were away from home; that is the sad side of it.
Ques. Did they not both stand in the same relationship with God?
J.T. Well, they do not stand on the same ground. As having the Spirit they are in the same relationship, and all that is in the counsel of God for others is for them; but then it is a question of where they are in the experience of their souls.
Rem. You spoke of the plains of Moab as the wilderness?
J.T. Yes, I did, but it was quite different from the wilderness previous to the brazen serpent in Numbers 21. The territory that the two-and-a-half tribes received was, of course, divine; otherwise Moses would not have given it to them. That is to say, the possession of the Spirit is divine territory; but it is not the land of Canaan. So long as the brethren maintain divine principles you can remain with them.
J.M. The proof of a spiritual man is that he will link himself with all the exercises and sorrows of God's people; he will not leave them.
J.T. Yes; however low down their state may be, provided the rights of God are not disregarded, you can go on with them.
Galatians 4:19 - 31; Galatians 6:15 - 18
J.T. It seems very suggestive that the expression, "travail in birth", is introduced here.
E.M. Is it a stronger word than "agony" in Colossians?
J.T. It is a different idea in Colossians 2:1. Here it is a maternal thought; in Colossians it is combat.
J.M. Why does he say travail again?
J.T. Because the ideal of the mother was not brought forth. Paul represents the mother. Very often in a family the severest travail occurs after the child is born.
E.J.McB. You mean in order that the child may come up to the mother's ideal?
J.T. Yes; because the mother has an ideal, and if it falls short of that ideal there must be a renewal of travail, although, of course, of another kind. Christ is the ideal. There would have been no need to travail had sin not come in; travailing came in consequent upon sin.
L. Had Christ been formed in the Galatians till then?
J.T. Apparently not; they had made a good start, however. The apostle does not say, 'until Christ be formed again', but "I travail in birth again". Galatians 4:19.
E.J.McB. Your idea is that Christ was before the apostle, and not seeing Christ in the Galatians he had this fresh exercise.
J.T. Yes. The subject of travail is a most interesting one; it begins in Genesis 3, and it is found right through. It is connected with the maternal side.
E.J.McB. Then do you connect with the maternal side the thought of character and formation?
J.T. Yes; the mother has an ideal. It is a poor thing to bring a child into the world without having an ideal for it. Paul had no such thought; he called the Galatians his children. What God has before Him in His Son. After the fall God spoke of a seed that should bruise the serpent's head. Cain is born, and Eve immediately says, "I have gotten a man from the Lord" Genesis 4:1; that is, she had an ideal in her mind, but Cain was not the true seed.
J.P.W. Does this exercise come in regard to one's self or to others?
J.T. In principle all believers must come to it. It may be in a labourer in regard to others, as in Paul, but one may also be exercised in this way as to oneself. There is no bringing forth of Christ in character without exercise.
E.M. What is the difference of the thought between travail here and in John 16:21?
J.T. It is the same idea. You see, the disciples had seized the thought of the Man. They would have sorrow, but He would see them again, and their hearts should rejoice. Christ was to be brought forth in themselves, as it were; He comes in again through their exercises.
Ques. Was that seen at Pentecost?
J.T. That is where the Man was brought forth. See what the testimony was; the character of Christ was brought forth; the disciples had gone through the labour and the sorrow.
W.H.M. And that leads to enlargement. I was thinking of Isaiah 54.
J.T. Yes. Zion brings forth children, and these would take the place of the "fathers", as in Psalm 45:16, "Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth". What was brought forth was really greater than the fathers. So the thought of God is to bring in His ideal, and now the labour and sorrow is to bring it forth.
E.J.McB. Your thought of the apostle here is that he would not rest with anything short of the ideal?
J.T. Yes. I have no doubt that if the apostle had looked forward and seen the outcome of Christianity, he would say, it was a monstrosity. Eve said when Cain was born, "I have gotten a man from the Lord" Genesis 4:1; but he was a man after the flesh; that which is first is always natural. So that although she gave Cain a nice name, he did not come up to the ideal. Then she got Abel, and his name indicates that Eve had not found in Cain what she expected. I have ventured to say so much about this because it is really the crucial point on the subjective line. We hesitate to accept the labour. You may have the right ideal and not bring it forth, because there is not strength for it: "the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth", Isaiah 37:3. Believers generally appreciate Christ, but then the question is, whether there is strength to bring Him forth.
E.J.McB. Yes; whether they will accept the necessary amount of suffering involved in bringing forth that ideal.
J.T. If the light is brought into your soul it ought to produce travail, The earth is a figure of it. Before sin came in there was no thought of ploughing or digging the earth. It was after sin came in that the penalty was laid upon Adam that the earth was to bring forth in that way. Compare Genesis 2:9 and Genesis 3:17 - 19. Now, the earth is used as a figure of man's heart; it is the fourth kind of soil, "an honest and good heart", Luke 8:15.
E.J.McB. Your thought is that normally the earth was to bring forth grass, and herb, and fruit trees after their kind, without toil or labour; but after the fall that was changed, and it was in travail it should bring forth.
J.T. Yes; and the toil is to go on in regard to the earth until the man of rest appears; that is to say, until the end of Genesis 5, "Lamech ... begat a son; and he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed", Genesis 5:29, 30. That is to say, until Christ is brought forth as the one in whom God rests, toil has to go on; that is, of course we know, while we are down here.
L. In John 5:17, you get the thought of the Father toiling, and the Son toiling. Would you say travailing gives the thought of the Spirit's toil?
J.T. It is the mother's side. When you get the ideal, there is incessant exercise until it is brought forth.
E.J.McB. The beauty of the word is this; that when the ideal is brought forth, the travail ceases. It is not everlasting toil in that way; but when the ideal is brought forth the travail ceases.
J.T. Yes; as was remarked about Jabez in 1 Chronicles 4:9. Every true Christian is born in sorrow; the difficulty is where labour or exercise is lacking; but when the desire is there God gives the strength for it to be brought forth. "It is God who works in you both the willing and the working according to his good pleasure"; Philippians 2:13. Literally, it is the working of God, but it comes out in the way of travail and exercise in the believer.
E.M. Is there any progress or enlargement in the thought of Christ formed in you? The apostle says, "My children, of whom I again travail in birth until Christ shall have been formed in you", Galatians 4:19.
J.T. I think there is, because Isaac is the ideal. You see Abraham got the ideal; he said, "Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless ... one born in my house is mine heir", Genesis 15:2,3. But
God says, "This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir", Genesis 15:4. Well, now, that was an ideal; but Abram overlooked the mother; and Sarah herself did not have the light, and hence she introduced Hagar as a makeshift. But in Genesis 17:5, God says to Abram, "Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham"; this means father of a multitude; and Sarai's name is to be changed; she is to be called Sarah, that is, "My princess". Through her Isaac is promised. Now Abraham has the light. Isaac is to be the man. Both Abraham and Sarah would get their ideal from the light vouchsafed in chapter 17. So when Isaac was born, Ishmael must go.
E.N.H. I suppose in line with that, it is the mother, or the maternal instinct, that would have Ishmael to go.
J.T. Yes; Sarah insists on his leaving the house. "The son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac", Genesis 21:10.
J.P.W. Does "Jerusalem above" answer to Sarah?
J.T. Yes. You not only have light as to the paternal side (God is our Father), but you have light also about the mother. "Jerusalem above ... is our mother". Galatians 4:26. The latter has reference to our calling. It is the system we are connected with, and from which we take character.
J.P.W. And is that the thought of formation?
J.T. I think so. Anyone who has the light of "Jerusalem above" would never think of being a citizen of a city or country down here. The maternal side is utterly lacking in Christendom.
E.M. Anyone in the light of "Jerusalem above" would not recognise the legal systems around us?
J.T. No. Christendom is Hagar. "Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem
which is now". Galatians 4:25. That is to say, it is in a desert, where Babylon is ultimately found; Revelation 17:3. But "Jerusalem above" is our mother, and she is free. I venture to say there is not a thought in Scripture less understood than that of "mother".
A.McC. What do you mean by the mother?
J.T. In Scripture it represents a system of things set forth in Hagar or "mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which is now, for she is in bondage with her children". Galatians 4:25. And children are begotten of her. God was in relation with that system. The father, like Abram, was right, but the mother was simply an Egyptian. Jerusalem was simply a slave; hence her children were like Ishmael, and the test came when Christ was presented. They persecuted Him that was born after the Spirit.
J.M. "Jerusalem above is free, which is our mother", Galatians 4:26.
J.T. What I understand by that is the light we have as to the assembly. It is a principle, that anyone who has that light can never associate himself with an earthly system -- a cathedral, or anything of that type.
T.M.G. Such a system has to do with the wrong man.
P.L. Maternal instincts must be formed if the family spirit is to prevail.
J.M. The working out of the system connected with "Jerusalem above" would really be the truth of sonship?
J.T. The working out of it is liberty; that is, if she is above, you are entitled to go up too.
J.M. It is what is formed in those who are sons.
T.M.G. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
J.T. That is the thought in it. Now this mother, that Paul alludes to here, did not fully come to light until Stephen's rejection. It was Paul's ministry that brought it to light.THE TABERNACLE OF WITNESS (1)
THE TABERNACLE OF WITNESS (2)
THE TABERNACLE OF WITNESS (3)
THE TABERNACLE OF WITNESS (4)
SEARCHING AND FINDING
FIDELITY TO ONE ANOTHER AS IN FELLOWSHIP
APPRECIATION OF THE INHERITANCE (1)
APPRECIATION OF THE INHERITANCE (2)
APPRECIATION OF THE INHERITANCE (3)
JERUSALEM ABOVE, WHICH IS OUR MOTHER