Pages 1 to 359 - "The Assembly in the Close of the Gospels", U.S.A., 1945 (Volume 192)

THE ASSEMBLY AS SEEN IN THE CLOSE OF THE GOSPELS (1)

John 14:15 - 28; John 17:1 - 26

J.T. The thought in mind is the assembly as seen in the endings of the gospels, first the family link as in John and then the link of grace as in Luke, so that we may see the working of the assembly in view of the conditions that have arisen on the earth, the violence that has come in. God may help us to see what is in the assembly, not simply so many persons, but what God has in the assembly as an offset to all the evil here; that He has something He can go on with and use in view of the end. It is thought that we should begin with the Spirit in this inquiry. John begins early with preparation for the new order of things in Christianity and chapter 14 introduces the Spirit. We shall see Him later, of course, in chapter 20, as breathed into the disciples. The Lord is taking the subject up here in view of chapter 20, to prepare us, or the disciples, for the great fact of the Spirit's coming and His operations with a view to the assembly. It is thought that God has taken account of conditions that have arisen on the earth, unparalleled conditions, bringing out the wickedness of man here on earth, and then offsetting it by what He has here in the assembly, not simply the persons, but what is in the assembly viewed as an organism. The order of man that God has secured would show what He has in the assembly before He begins to work in Israel and the nations. The verses read begin with love for Christ and the keeping of His commandments, and the Spirit given.

H.G.H. Is the suggestion that the assembly is the scene of the Spirit's operations in our day?

J.T. Yes, it is the greatest thought operationally, I suppose, and the greatest thought familywise. God has it now, not simply persons, but over against the awful development in man that has come about in our time, He has actually, in the assembly already, the new order of man that is according to His mind. We are on a high level here leading up to chapter 20. What is going on in the assembly in the way of divine visitations brings about response to them, over against the awfulness of the conditions that are abroad. We have every advantage in the presence of the Spirit, the Father and the Son coming in and the Spirit operating, indicating visitations -- coming and going -- the active service of divine Persons.

A.E.H. The word "the Comforter" used by the Lord in speaking of the Holy Spirit conveys the idea of managing our affairs. In the early part of the chapter does it have reference to managing our affairs inwardly, so that we might be restful and full of comfort and grace in the presence of all these awful things around, not so much making way for us through these things but helping us inwardly in them?

J.T. Yes, divine Persons are carrying on, the Lord Himself being in evidence, telling us all about it by instructing us as to how things are to go on, the coming and going of divine Persons and the effect of it inwardly and outwardly in a family way. I think there is the evidence of all this in a little way throughout the world. God is going on with it in the midst of the turmoil and violence.

A.R. What do you mean by coming and going?

J.T. The Lord says, "I am coming to you. Yet a little and the world sees me no longer; but ye see me; because I live ye also shall live". It is a wonderful thing that we are directly in touch with heaven through divine Persons being active in coming and going. The effect of that is to be known among us.

C.N. The Lord says, "The Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him nor know him; but ye know him".

J.T. That is good. The Lord calls attention to what they and we have to do with -- the rulers who have no part in Him at all, but we know Him.

H.H. It raises the question of what knowledge we have of the assembly and how much attention we are giving to it.

J.T. We have been holding it theoretically, perhaps, and not apprehending its origin, character, and testimony, what God has in all this dispensation, what He is going on with in an unseen way, although the effect is seen outwardly. Hence, I think the Lord has sought to remind us that the assembly is not a mere servant to us or something to be resorted to at times. It is the chief thought of God. So it has been remarked many times, "Let not the assembly be charged", (1 Timothy 5:16). Take care of it, do not make it common.

J.H.E. Being an organism, it needs the Spirit's help.

J.T. That is right, organism is the word; indeed, it is active in that sense.

A.N.W. Does the reference to the individual in verses 21 and on give the character of the conditions to which the divine Persons will come?

J.T. That is good, I am sure. The word 'assembly' is not used in John, but the persons who form it are spoken of; but it is not forgotten that it is an organism. We begin here, "If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter". We cannot think that that Comforter is given to each of us severally. It is a collective thought. The Lord says, "That he may be with you for ever, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him nor know him; but ye know him". The ye is

emphatic; it is a plural thought. It is a matter of what we have together, "Ye know him, for he abides with you, and shall be in you". That must be a collective thought.

A.N.W. Judas, not Iscariote, confirms that as he asks the Lord, "How is it that thou wilt manifest thyself to us and not to the world?". He evidently takes it as a collective matter.

J.T. Yes, and a love matter too, not a mere theoretical, or doctrinal thought; it is the persons that are in mind, and what is said of them shows it must be a collective thing. There must be an organism involved.

C.A.M. Would you say the word 'orphans' in verse 18 stresses the idea of family?

J.T. You can see how it touches us. The family is in view in that sense. The Lord's word implies fatherhood in the sense in which John speaks of it. He tells us that the Lord called them "children"; they were 'His own'.

C.N. Does the position of the Lord Jesus on high and the presence of the Holy Spirit down here make up for all that would make us orphans as regards the world conditions which you have in mind?

J.T. Yes, and as the worldling comes in touch with those of whom the Lord speaks, he finds something there that he did not know of before.

R.W.S. Would the orphan conditions for the ten days only give emphasis to the reality of the Comforter when He came?

J.T. Yes, the ten days would bring that out. The ten days, which we shall see in the Acts, brought out what they were and how much they could do for one another. Peter could take a lead and propose what should be done, before the Spirit came, but how great the effect when the Spirit actually came, and began to function, and they began to function in His power. So you learn by contrast, but still the ten

days brought out remarkable results, the working of Christ alone among them.

F.S.C. Were only the disciples left orphans?

J.T. I think so. I do not think there would be any in the future having that status.

A.P. Do you think that the teaching of the Holy Spirit here forms part of the great provision the Lord has for us? The Lord said, "Let not your heart be troubled; ye believe on God, believe also on me" (John 14:1). In His service here, the Spirit is meeting the idea of restless hearts. It would set us at rest in regard to the realm of divine things.

J.T. Yes, He would put everything right. The Lord is anticipating that, but He is doing it, too, while He is with them; He is telling them of greater things.

A.M. The Lord said, "If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him"; that is divine manifestations to individuals.

J.T. In the first reference to it we get the order, the love first. "If ye love me, keep my commandments". In the other one that you speak of the Lord says, "If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him". Verses 15 to 17 are the ones for us to dwell on now; what the Spirit is as among us, as secured by love and prayer; secured by the Lord's intercession for us. The Spirit has to be viewed by Himself first as worth having, and then there are the activities of the Son and the Father that the saints might have Him.

A.E.M. The Spirit would require a realm of active love and obedience in which to operate.

J.T. I think we want to get on to that. We are touching now the operational side, and the conditions for operations. The conditions must flow out from divine Persons, but can we not be brought into

them? It is a question now of whether we desire this. The Lord makes the suggestion as to whether we desire these conditions, or are we content to be grovelling along to think little or nothing of them. The Lord is intimating that these conditions are there. "If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him nor know him; but ye know him, for he abides with you, and shall be in you". The Lord is throwing it back on them, as it were, in an abstract way, saying these things are so and are attainable. What brings them about is indicated; that is, love. If there is not love for Christ, there is no value in talking about it at all. If there is not love for Christ, there is certainly none for the brethren; but if there be love for Christ, and then the keeping of the commandments, what will not the Lord do under those circumstances?

H.G.H. Does the word, "He abides with you, and shall be in you" suggest the Spirit's operations in the assembly?

J.T. That is the idea. He is going to operate, not simply with you, but in you, and that implies the assembly as an organism. So that the greatest possible operations are going on, and conditions are there for them too. Men are going on too, of course, and God is with them in mercy and we pray for them, but they have no part in this at all. It is an inner matter and belongs to the highest realm. The Lord is saying it is for us; it is a matter of prayer, love, and keeping the commandments.

H.B. Would you say what these commandments would be for us?

J.T. Well, such as the Lord would give. He is not telling us what they are to be, but it is a question

of being ready for any commandments at all. He is ready to give whatever is needed.

A.E.H. Would there be more spiritual character to these commandments than the commandments in 1 Corinthians, for instance?

J.T. I think we have to consider whence they come. Paul is giving them in 1 Corinthians and he is saying they are the Lord's. What he is giving, I think, is specified, but what is mentioned here is not specified. It is a question of what the Lord will give.

A.E.H. I was thinking of certain things coming out in current ministry by the Spirit. Eventually they take the character of a commandment although we may not be able to find a verse.

J.T. Well, I think we shall not get much help from the ministry unless we take up the specific ones stated by the apostle.

A.E.H. I was thinking we might look for something more spiritual at the end than that.

J.T. I do not think we shall get help unless we take up the specific ones, because we are apt to be too high in our attitude in what we call the ministry meeting or prophetic meeting. They are not quite as high, you know, as we think they are.

A.E.H. Then perhaps we ought to look more at 1 Corinthians.

J.T. I should certainly say that, to see what Paul has said. The Lord had certain things to say, but Paul says much more. It is a question of level. For instance, the Lord goes up to heaven Himself and gives gifts to men. What is the level there? He went beyond all the heavens we are told, and in Corinthians, what is the level there? It is not hard to see.

A.P.T. It says in Acts the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey Him. Would that include all that you suggested?

J.T. Yes, that is the attitude of the soul, those who obey. They get the Spirit, showing that the idea of the commandments must come in here. "If ye love me, keep my commandments".

J.H.E. Would Rebecca help? After the presentation of the servant, the question was put, "Wilt thou go with this man? And she said, I will go" (Genesis 24:58).

J.T. Yes. That is what the parents ask. It was not the servant of Abraham, not that it was not a good question. It was a good question, but it brought out what was there. They must go back to the beginning of the family. That principle must be in the family of God, and Abraham was the head of the family. The thing originated there.

J.H.E. I was thinking the Holy Spirit does not command such, but His presentation was so wonderful that she was prepared to go on further.

J.T. Yes, she said, "I will go". There is not much in that, you know. The details there do not help much spiritually. It is a question of the point of origin that God is operating from; that is, Abraham.

F.C. In relation to Acts 13 the conditions of love are operating among the brethren and certain are prophets and teachers,, persons who are on different social levels naturally; and they are ministering to the Lord in prayer and fasting and the Spirit says, "Separate me now Barnabas and Saul" Acts 13:2. Is that in line?

J.T. That is very good, a divine Person actually speaking Himself. We are not told who the medium was. Now the conditions were there, the time had come. He could have said the same before, but the conditions were not there. "Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them". It is a rare occasion, in which the Holy Spirit is speaking directly, although I suppose there was a medium, but it is put directly, as if it is Himself.

That is a good point to get to, the level where divine Persons are acting themselves.

J.T.Jr. The level of the local meeting is really determined by the state of the leaders.

J.T. Well, it is a question of what there is. Of course, there is no doubt that each meeting might be measured, and that is what one was thinking, that there might be deliverance from all things that are interfering with the operations of the Spirit; so that there should be always a year of release, all complaints dealt with so that the brethren are released and happy together. Otherwise you do not get what is contemplated here.

J.T.Jr. In John 5 we have the state of the pool, but the Lord would correct the state. We do not want a continuation of a pool condition. The Lord interfered there. It was a question of a season, the angel disturbed the pool every year. We should rise out of that condition to something higher.

J.T. Quite so. That poor man had to wait a long time because the conditions were not there. Of course, we cannot compare these with conditions in Rochester or New York, but these things ought to be looked into, what conditions are in assemblies because divine operations are dependent on these conditions.

A.B.P. Are the conditions in chapters 9 - 13 necessary to reach this condition of things in chapter 14?

J.T. No doubt. The Lord's word here is a new suggestion, no doubt dependent on what preceded it, because things are built up systematically in the gospel. The Lord says, "If"; He is raising the question with the disciples as to whether love is there. I am sure that is the point just now as to what conditions there are in local gatherings.

A.E.H. At the end of the previous chapter we have a very self-confident attitude taken by one of

the disciples and the Lord manifests how dangerous it is to trust or have any confidence of that kind by saying, "The cock shall not crow till thou hast denied me thrice" John 13:38. There is self-confidence in Peter which the Lord deals with.

J.T. Quite so. No doubt these chapters lead up to what we are dealing with and it is quite clear that it is a question of state; conditions in a locality enter into it, whether there is love for Christ. If there is not love for Christ, there is not love for one another; but if there is love for Christ, there will be the keeping of the commandments. Then we see what the Lord will do. "I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter". It is the beginning of this subject of the Comforter, "that he may be with you for ever". So we have a new thing here entering into the operational system - the Comforter. Therefore, we have two sides to this important line, namely, the Comforter down here, but the first is, the Lord Himself coming in to open the matter up.

A.MacD. The Lord says, "The Spirit of truth". As we recognise Him thus, we would be helped to arrive at a good state, as over against what is in the world?

J.T. Quite so. It is a regulating idea that is introduced, not only the Spirit, but the Spirit of truth. That must be understood. He is the Spirit of truth, and He comes because of certain conditions. If we get the great operational thought of God, we shall see the force of what is said here. The operations are to proceed now in the face of the most terrible conditions among the nations and among men. Divine Persons are coming in and going out among us; and the element of truth is introduced among us which is a corrective thought, for we are to be adjusted in all matters. Matters are constantly coming up which should be answered locally and

would be if conditions exist such as the Lord has in mind. The Spirit of truth is here to deal with conditions, and we are to be speaking truth one to another. "Do not lie to one another", Colossians 3:9.

J.H-tt. Does the state exemplified in Judah when he is prepared to give himself as bondman in place of Benjamin, influence the others and make way for this? Joseph was prepared to make himself known.

J.T. Very good, one ready to sacrifice.

R.A. The Spirit of truth would seek to preserve the position in connection with Mary in John 12, that she may have the liberty to bring forward the pound of ointment.

J.T. The only great obstacle or darkening influence there was Judas. It would seem as if things went well in that meeting at Bethany and the Lord knew it. The great darkening influence was Judas. We are apt to have that sort of thing.

A.B. You were referring to hindrances to the operational side. In 1 Corinthians there are many hindrances, but in the last chapter we have, "Let all things ye do be done in love" 1 Corinthians 16:14.

J.T. Quite so. We could hardly grasp what is in mind in specific commandments save as we study 1 and 2 Corinthians. They would lead us to higher levels. The incident spoken of in Acts 13 shows there is nothing to interfere. The Spirit of God is now free, "Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them" Acts 13:2. There is nothing to interfere. Paul and Barnabas had been there for a year teaching in the assembly. That showed how great the need was for that, that a crowd of people being taught should be developed into an assembly. Assembly conditions are brought about in chapter 13, so that the Spirit of God is free to act and direct what is to be done.

J.B. Would the movements of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Jesus towards Europe in Acts 16 be seen with them in their movements?

J.T. Just so, they would have gone elsewhere but the Spirit of Jesus did not suffer them. That all bears on what we are saying, that conditions are brought about so that divine operations should proceed, and the divine operations had no less a scope than the western world. We must not interfere with the scope of divine operations. The nearer we get to divine Persons the more we shall get the scope of Their commandments. Even between the Father and Son there are commandments. The Lord says, "I have received this commandment of my Father" (John 10:18). He was going to carry it out.

H.H. They were characteristic lovers of Christ in Antioch in Acts 13.

J.T. I would say that. The testimony is built up in that way and as John Mark was lost to the sphere of operations, we reach a Timothy; Paul finds him and makes inquiry about him. The nearby meetings know about him and Paul circumcised him, whatever that meant, he did it so that that young man should be secured for the operations of God.

J.A.P. Do you think cutting in a straight line the word of truth would help in matters in our localities?

J.T. Quite so, it is a question of making room for what proceeds from God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

C.N. Does verse 21 show the workability of the economy? You said earlier that these commandments are not specified, but verse 21 shows that persons who have them and keep them are loved by the Father.

J.T. I think that is a good way to touch it, that the persons are under the influence of the Father.

R.W.S. Allusion has been made to the beginnings in Europe and the Spirit that was in those who were

operating; is the thought that the same spirit that was in Paul and others should be in us now as we come to the end of the dispensation?

J.T. That is the idea, whether God's work can continue in this way, however small we are, that men of that kind, that are there and available, are not allowing conditions that would interfere. If there is a need for the year of release, let it be put into operation, that old feelings are dispelled so that God may continue to work.

A.R. What do you have in your mind as to the year of release?

J.T. It is in Deuteronomy. We are apt to have wrong feelings toward one another, which are not removed. That is the idea, I think. If they are not removed, the operations of God are interfered with; and if they are removed, we shall have more from God.

W.J.W. Would that be on the line of quenching the Spirit -- holding things against one another?

J.T. That is right.

A.P. In Psalm 132 the Lord had His place and in Psalm 133 the brethren are together in a right way. I was thinking of that providing conditions to bring in the peace.

J.T. You come to another point there. That is the psalm where the Lord commands the blessing. You can see that the blessing is commanded, but it appears that nothing is in the way, because conditions are being reached in unity among the brethren. Conditions are reached so that the divine commandment is proclaimed. That is how the millennium will begin; the commandment of God is the divine thought, with a view to the working out of eternal life.

H.H. The ark has come to Zion in Psalm 132, hence brethren can dwell together in unity.

J.T. Judas, not Iscariote, raises the question, "Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself to us and not to the world?" That is a good question. "Jesus answered and said to him, If any one love me, he will keep my word". Not the commandment, but the word, the divine mind expressed perhaps in ministry. "If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him". What a thing that is! The way is quite clear for the Father and Son to come to a brother. Then, "He that loves me not does not keep my words". Notice the words now; persons are not keeping them. Some are apt to say, I do not see this matter of covering or some other thing. First He speaks about one who keeps His word, and now in verse 24, "He that loves me not does not keep my words". People mention actual words of Scripture and say I do not see that. Well, it is there. The Lord is saying that it is a serious matter not to keep His words, because we are to go by the words. Just one word is necessary to clarify the position, and if we object we are standing in the way.

A.R. Certain ministry is hindering certain localities. In some places they do not see the idea of the city reading; in other places they do not see the idea of uniting together. What causes these hindering elements?

J.T. Well, you can see that here, "He that loves me not does not keep my words". That just meets what you are saying. Ministry the Lord is giving is not accepted in certain localities. The Lord's word ought to be understood and accepted. If we set up our wills against it, things are not kept. That is what the Lord is alluding to. "The word which ye hear is not mine, but that of the Father who has sent me". Now we are coming to a thing of importance - delegated authority. We have to make

room for that too. And again, "These things I have said to you, abiding with you; but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name", that is the Lord's name. We see here wonderful suggestions that the Father sends in the Lord's name, "He shall teach you all things, and will bring to your remembrance all the things which I have said to you". Why should we have any difficulties? The Spirit of God is here to teach us, and if will is not working everything will be intelligible.

A.E.H. Is there something in the fact that the word the Lord uses in regard to knowing the Holy Spirit is the word referring to objective knowledge? Do we get a lot of gain in objective knowledge?

J.T. Much more could be said on this passage, but I thought we should go on to chapter 17 which is the very essence of everything. It contains the words which proceeded from the Lord's own mouth as looking up to heaven. We get wonderful communications from the Son to the Father in this chapter. One has felt hesitant to introduce it at all in a substantial way because the chapter is so wonderful, but it is necessary that we might have before us what a time we are in. The Lord Jesus lifted up His eyes to heaven and speaks to the Father about certain things committed in this chapter. He says in the closing verse, "And I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known; that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them". This is the very topmost thought, I would think, in an objective sense, that we should have the Father's love for the Son in our hearts not simply love for one another, but the Father's love for the Son in our hearts. "And I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known; that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them". I would say that verse constitutes persons in it as fit for the very topmost

part of heaven where the assembly is going. The Father's love for the Son in our hearts -- there is a lot to be cleared away for that, you know; if we revert back to earlier thoughts, there is a lot to be dealt with so that we should have this, that the Father's love for the Son should be in our hearts.

A.E.H. "I in them" -- is that characteristic, that Christ is formed in us substantially in the degree in which we appreciate the Father's love for the Son?

J.T. Yes, the Father's love for the Son should be in our hearts. The Lord said in chapter 14, "Yet a little and the world sees me no longer; but ye see me; because I live ye also shall live. In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you". That is the level of chapter 14. "Ye in me, and I in you". That is in view of what we have in chapter 14, but in chapter 17 we have "I in them". That is, the Lord is now anticipating being in us because the Father's love is in us. That quality of love is in us making way for the Son in placing His love in our hearts.

A.R. Are we brought into the fellowship of divine Persons, the same love that existed between divine Persons? "I in them and thou in me".

J.T. "And the glory which thou hast given me I have given them, that they may be one, as we are one; I in them and thou in me, that they may be perfected into one and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and that thou hast loved them as thou hast loved me". This is leading up to what we have in verse 26. It is the climax of what we are dealing with now. "And I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known" meaning He is looking forward to permanency in this thought. It is this dispensation of grace that is contemplated, "the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them".

C.A.M. Would you say that the chapter commences with eternal life and would bring us to the end of all the world of need, where need is experienced, and therefore it brings in these wonderful conditions? Do you think most of our exercises are concerned with the need side?

J.T. It seems to me that chapter 17 is the climax of the teaching. It really affords us a wonderful scope of things beginning with chapter 13, the teaching the Lord had in mind for them in view of the place above, nothing less than that. This last verse would make us fit for the topmost; our part in heaven, the Father's love for the Son, not simply for us, but for the Son, in us and He in us. That is a fixed thing that we have to apprehend and reach.

A.B.P. Eternal conditions brought into the present?

J.T. Just so.

H.H. Certainly you could not add a word to that. It is the topmost stone.

J.T. This is what the Lord has in mind for us. It is no millennial thought; it is far beyond anything else. It is a course of instruction from chapter 13 right on to this. This verse is the top note, the top stone, that we are made fit for the highest place, with Christ in heaven, but not indeed where divine Persons are. The Lord is gone beyond all heavens, but we are speaking of heaven itself, that which was created. This, it seems to me, is the top stone of it. Paul speaks about the third heaven. We are not told there are any more in number, but the Lord Jesus has gone beyond all the heavens. That is His own personal distinction as a divine Person. This verse contemplates the very topmost part of it where the Father's love for Christ is in us, and He in us on account of that. There is nothing to add to that.

A.B. Would it synchronise with Paul's thought in Ephesians, "filled even to all the fulness of God"? Ephesians 3:19

J.T. I think it would.

A.P.T. I would like to ask whether that is as far as we can go as creatures?

J.T. I do not know that we can go further. The Father's love for the Son in us, and He in us you can hardly add anything to. It is God's thought that we are brought to that, the Father's love for the Son in us and He in us.

A.B. The operational side is wonderful. The Lord says, "And I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known". So that the heavenly side is beyond all that has preceded.

THE ASSEMBLY AS SEEN IN THE CLOSE OF THE GOSPELS (2)

John 20:14 - 31; John 21:1 - 14

J.T. We are not only in the dispensation to which the assembly belongs but we are actually in assembly circumstances, and the understanding of what we have already considered is possible. It is thought, that having looked at the earlier chapters read, especially chapter 17, which we but lightly touched on, we should now link on the operation of the Spirit, the sphere of it and conditions of it, with that wonderful prayer in which sonship as applied to ourselves is contemplated. The Lord said, "And the glory which thou hast given me I have given them", referring to what we have as sons of God. Then the last verse of the chapter, which we were able to speak of a little, contemplates a condition fit for heaven; we might say the highest. We read of glory in the highest and that glory is involved in what is said about the Father imparting His love for the Son to us. "The love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them"(John 17:26), contemplates our being in the highest heavens; that is, those heavens into which we shall enter, to which the creature has access. Now it is on the same principle that we are in assembly circumstances. Mary represents the feminine side of our position, involving the sisters, but with a view to the assembly as feminine herself. The assembly circumstances can hardly be viewed as confined to brothers, for there is the sisterhood as well, and the conditions contemplated being found in them.

A.E.H. On the line of the Lord coming to us as we were saying this morning, does it not seem remarkable that although the masculine element had been in activity, the Lord is attracted to the spot in relation to the feminine side first?

J.T. Well; that is suggestive and the references to Him in this gospel are not without importance in view of this very matter. That a woman like Mary Magdalene, who was freed of what was so terrible, out of whom seven demons went, should be in mind is significant. She sets out the assembly as attractive and loved by Christ and marked by intelligence, not only by what is sisterly but by intelligence.

A.E.H. Does it suggest the need of working out moral issues in order that the true feminine grace and charm should be seen?

J.T. Well, I think the difficulties in our localities are often linked up with the sisters. The enemy knows that they are essential to the thought of the assembly, and the fact that they do not have any formal part in the assembly services may seem to militate against their formation. How many sisters think of what they can contribute to the meetings, or whether they can carry any burdens? If they do not, to that extent, the meetings, and conditions in localities are weakened. Mary Magdalene represents a person who progressed speedily. She really was dark at the beginning, but she grasped the thought of learning, calling the Lord, "Rabboni", my Teacher; that is, she committed herself to Him. Her instruction came that way, from Him.

A.E.M. Where do you find out how the sisters stand?

J.T. Well, the brothers talk to the sisters; the question is, what is underlying our conversations. Are sisters regarded as able to look into and follow up what is before us spiritually? We should recognise that they are here to do so, but then do we follow that up? I was thinking that the sisters ought to take on some intelligence and rely on their intelligence. For instance Lydia, the Lord opened her heart, we are told. She was a practical woman. She had a business, and a house. She calls it her

house. The Lord would say to us all, that though we are occupied with ordinary things, He would constitute us fit for having part in spiritual things. The Lord opened her heart to attend to the things spoken by Paul.

T.E.H. Would you help us as to the women at the riverside? They play a large part in the testimony coming into the western hemisphere.

J.T. Quite so, and in Philippians Paul speaks to two sisters, saying that they should be of the same mind in the Lord.

H.G.H. Would verse 13 show Mary's need of intelligence? She said, "They have taken away my Lord" John 20:13.

J.T. Where was her intelligence? No one had taken Him away, of course; He moved of Himself. She was defective, but she learned quickly as she came into touch with Him.

J.K.P. Does the manner in which the Lord speaks to Mary indicate the idea that you are setting out? He addresses her first as woman, and then more intimately as Mary. Does this help as to how we converse with sisters to find out the extent of the work of God in them?

J.T. The Lord was undoubtedly intending to bring out what was there. He knew well what was there and He will bring it out. First of all it says, "But Mary stood at the tomb weeping without. As therefore she wept, she stooped down into the tomb, and beholds two angels sitting in white garments, one at the head and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain. And they say to her. Woman, why dost thou weep? She says to them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him. Having said these things she turned backward and beholds Jesus standing there, and knew not that it was Jesus" John 20:11 - 14.

J.K.P. Following on that, the Lord addresses her as "Woman" and later as "Mary", as though He would bring out what was there in feminine quality.

J.T. Very good. "Woman" is the word we should keep in mind. The Lord said in chapter 2, "What have I to do with thee, woman?" John 2:4. It is a solemn thing that He has to say that. Then the Lord spoke to the woman of Samaria, saying, "Woman, believe me" (John 4:21). He had the feminine side in His mind, and she yielded wonderfully to Him; so did Mary Magdalene. The thing now for us to see is how the yielding marks the sisters, because in the reference to His own mother, she is speaking as if she is the important person at the marriage.

A.P.T. In 1 Corinthians the help comes from the man's side if a woman wishes to learn anything.

J.T. Let her ask her husband at home.

A.N.W. Is there not scope for the sisters through asking their husbands at home? Philip's daughters probably prophesied at home. Is there not more scope for them there?

J.T. Well, the Lord brings out in John's gospel the place the woman has, and how she comes into view in His approval. Chapter 19 helps us in this inquiry for it is said, "And by the cross of Jesus stood his mother, and the sister of his mother, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala. Jesus therefore, seeing his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, says to his mother. Woman, behold thy son" John 19:25,26. Now we must bear in mind that the Lord is pointing to John, and not asking her to behold Himself. Then He says, "Behold thy mother", meaning that the disciple is capable of regarding this sister as his mother in the house. They can be in a house on a holy principle, the woman as a mother and the other as a son. It says therefore, "From that hour the disciple took her to his own home" John 19:27. So that the link is to be there while they are both on

earth; that is remarkable and demonstrates the holy links which can be between a brother and a sister who are not related naturally according to flesh. They are related by the Lord Himself asserting that relation, that Mary was John's mother and John was her son. John took her to his own home. This is to show how a holy, wholesome state of things may be established among us, if the sisters and brothers were on that level.

F.S.C. What teaching would you get out of that, the Lord transferring His mother to John?

J.T. It shows what the Lord can do, how He can use the saints. He valued her as a mother, but now that relation was going to cease. She was to remain on earth in the flesh and He was going to provide for her, not merely in the sense of ordinary accommodation by a home for her, but holy, wholesome relations between herself and John.

A.R. There is an exercise among us now, about young sisters seeking husbands outside. I wonder if there is underneath that an unholy state of things.

J.T. Well, quite so; there is something in that. There is enough in what we have said to arouse serious concern as to conditions. As in assembly conditions or circumstances how much do the sisters contribute to those circumstances? All that is in mind, because we have to look at the assembly.

F.K.C. John would have a good influence through Mary being in his home. She would be able to tell him about the Lord, when He was younger, and of His intimate links with her all through His life.

J.T. Undoubtedly she would tend to help him spiritually about things that no one knew but herself. But then another thing comes out, that John was remarkably efficient spiritually in dealing with sisters. He writes to one of them in his epistles, "The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth" 2 John 1. Notice that, an apostle loving a sister in

the truth and her children, "and not I only but also all who have known the truth, for the truth's sake which abides in us and shall be with us to eternity. Grace shall be with you, mercy, peace from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. I rejoiced greatly that I have found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received commandment from the Father. And now I beseech thee, lady" 2 John 1 - 5. One has to call attention to the respect of the address. "I beseech thee, lady, not as writing to thee a new commandment, but that which we have had from the beginning, that we should love one another" 2 John 5. Then he proceeds to tell her about the antichrist and how she is to exercise discipline in view of him. Therefore he says, "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, they who do not confess Jesus Christ coming in flesh -- this is the deceiver and the antichrist. See to yourselves, that we may not lose what we have wrought, but may receive full wages. Whosoever goes forward and abides not in the doctrine of the Christ has not God. He that abides in the doctrine, he has both the Father and the Son. If any one come to you and bring not this doctrine, do not receive him into the house, and greet him not" 2 John 7 - 10. Notice the woman's position in the house and how she exercises discipline. "For he who greets him partakes in his wicked works" 2 John 11. Now we cannot afford to spend much time on this point, but we would do well to think of all this and the place the sisters have even up to the point of using discipline and that in a most severe way, in refusing a false brother any access at all into the house.

D.P. Would the disagreement between two sisters in Philippi affect the local position?

J.T. It would; apparently it was not too serious but it was enough for Paul to call attention to, that they may be of one mind in the Lord. There is a

great deal of friction in the local gatherings because of these things, particularly among the sisters.

T.S. If the sisters are functioning rightly, would there be more and better singing assemblywise in our service?

J.T. Yes, quite so. Their voices should certainly merge there.

A.E.M. It seemed to require the Lord's personal attention to adjust Mary, but there was some measure of adjustment with the men, at least one of them. It says John believed after the evidence of the empty tomb and the clothes.

J.T. I think it brings up the difference God has put between man and woman as to intelligence. A man will learn quicker, and so both John and Peter laid hold of the position in the sepulchre quickly, whereas Mary did not. That arises from the difference between the sexes, and we ought to recognise this. In the world the woman is regarded as having the same ability, but that is not true and we might as well face that. Peter and John laid hold of the situation more quickly than she did, but on the other hand she remained at the sepulchre because of her affection. The affection is stronger in a woman than in a man, but the intelligence is not and we see it coming out here. If we accept these facts, then we should seek to operate on these lines. Therefore we have a woman here who lingers at the tomb. The great hold that the Lord is able to secure in her is because she has affection. She was ignorant but she had great affection.

J.A.P. Do we need both sides?

J.T. Certainly we need both; we need affection, but intelligence too. The epistles to the Corinthians contemplate those two things. "I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man" (1 Timothy 2:12), but at the same time the Spirit of God makes great allowance for them and when it

comes to the subject of marriage in 1 Corinthians 7 you see how it may work out in the sister who does not marry at all, that she does better.

J.T.Jr. In 1 Corinthians 11 he speaks of directions, praises them for keeping the directions but then he introduces the "but" in verse 3: "But I wish you to know that the Christ is the head of every man" 1 Corinthians 11:3. That is, the "but" seems to allude to something missing; is that correct? "As I have directed you, ye keep the directions. But I wish you to know that the Christ is the head of every man, but woman's head is the man, and the Christ's head God" 1 Corinthians 11:2,3. That is, the "but" seems to introduce the subject you have in mind in stressing the woman's place in relation to man.

J.T. So it runs down, because the woman is in mind in all that instruction and the whole matter of womanliness in the woman as to how she represents authority in her house. It is a question of something on her head that shows she has a head. It is not hers exactly, but authority is delegated to her husband and she is to show that in her attitude, that she is under authority.

H.H. Have we two good examples in Romans 16, where we have good assembly material? We get Phoebe, and also Rufus, well spoken of by Paul, and Paul speaks of Rufus' mother as his mother too. That would be suggestive of good assembly material.

A.N.W. Then too, John says to the elect lady, "But hope to come to you, and to speak mouth to mouth" 2 John 12. He evidently has a sense of mutuality there.

J.T. Then another illustration on this subject is Peter's using a figure or expression similar to what we have in 2 John, "She that is elected with you in Babylon salutes you", 1 Peter 5:13. That raises an inquiry as to who the "she" is, that she should be brought forward with such distinction in a great epistle like Peter's. You feel how you are reminded,

as if it is his own wife for instance, that it is comely that she should have such regard for the brethren, so that she salutes them.

A.B. In regard to the word 'elect' it is most interesting as bearing on what you have already said in regard to Mary Magdalene out of whom went seven demons. That must have intimated the state in her.

J.T. Well, she and the Samaritan woman are remarkable as potential assembly material. They were both evil, but the evil had been dealt with; it was not there any more. Then the Samaritan woman understands how to use her body. She left her waterpot and went away to the city which means clearly that her own body was to be that; it was to be the vessel of living water.

A.MacD. Was it not the woman lying at Boaz' feet that stirred him?

J.T. That is a very important and delicate subject which can only be handled by spiritual persons. It shows the moral power that was there that maintained seemliness under those circumstances and so it led up to a holy bond according to God. It is a thing that is to be guarded lest we be found in unseemly circumstances of that kind.

H.H. In Revelation 12 where Satan is cast out of heaven, it is said that there is no more room for him; he never can go back. Is it not important for us to have done with a thing? Mary Magdalene was free of those demons for ever.

J.T. Satan would never have scope with the woman again.

A.R. The Lord's working in John seems to connect with Genesis 2; a man and a woman. It says Eve is taken out of man and shall be called woman.

J.T. I think that is a good suggestion, because John's gospel has many references to women. The idea of man and woman that we get in chapter 20

must lead up to the assembly, because we must not forget that John is the writer of Revelation. Possibly he wrote it before he wrote this book, but he is the one who deals so largely with the Spirit, with Christ and the assembly -- Christ viewed as the Bridegroom and the assembly as the bride. He depicts her coming down "as a bride adorned for her husband" Revelation 21:2, a magnificent thought, that the Husband has His full place and that she was adorned not for herself but for Him.

R.A. Do you think that in saying "Mary" the Lord has in mind that there is something to correspond with the name?

J.T. The name Mary, I suppose, works out in the thought of suffering, and no doubt she would represent that and the assembly represents that too. She is a partaker with the Lord, as at the Supper. She is qualified to be called the Lamb's wife.

J.B. In Ephesians 5 you have the man and woman as the great thought in that chapter. The apostle could say, "This mystery is great, but I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly" Ephesians 5:32. Would that be in keeping with what you have in mind?

J.T. Very much, because it is a suggestion of a right subject for conversation. "I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly", Ephesians 5:32 as if it were one of the main themes of conversation in the apostle's mind. If you meet the brethren, you bring up that subject.

A.B.P. In Acts 1:14 certain of the disciples "gave themselves all with one accord to continual prayer, with several women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren". Would that show the conditions you have in mind?

J.T. I think it does. That whole passage contemplates suitable moral conditions as the Lord went up to heaven, as it were conditions that could be trusted. It was an upper room, a private place for

them, as if the Lord would say the persons who are here are reliable; I can trust them. Anyone who brought anything derogatory to Christ would be disallowed. So we have the word 'several' used as to the women in Acts 1:14, meaning there were more than Mary but she is mentioned specially, "Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren", a holy circle whom the Lord could rely on to look after His interests; that entered into the ten days of which we have spoken.

J.W. The Lord said to the assembly at Thyatira, "Thou permittest the woman Jezebel" (Revelation 2:20). Would that stand in contrast to Mary who is amenable to the teaching of the Lord?

J.T. Quite so.

R.W.S. Is Mary governed by her instincts and then by the instruction furnished by the Lord's own words to her? It says first she turned backward, and then she turns round and then the Lord speaks with her.

J.T. Yes, the movements are remarkable and evidently governed by right instincts and you might say by some supernatural power. "Having said these things she turned backward and beholds Jesus standing there, and knew not that it was Jesus". She turned in the right direction. "Jesus says to her, Woman, why dost thou weep? Whom seekest thou? She, supposing that it was the gardener, says to him, Sir, if thou hast borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. Jesus says to her, Mary". What a moment it was! What a spiritual moment it was! He is laying the foundation of the assembly really, without mentioning it, in this woman's soul. She is to be a messenger to the assembly; the most august company in the universe is in that upper room and she bears the message to them.

C.DeB. Would that answer to John 10:3, "the sheep hear his voice". The moment He mentioned her name she responded immediately.

J.T. Chapter 20 has the assembly in mind. It is not the sheep, as in John 10, but the assembly that is in mind. Our readings are with the assumption that we are in assembly circumstances. We are able to understand assembly matters and call them by name when we meet them. We have a sister here now who is intended in the Lord's mind for the assembly.

A.P. Would arriving at the thought of Rabboni, my Teacher, be added to the idea of instinct, something more to be learned in the way of divine teaching? Does all this experience and exercise that Mary passes through tend to bring her to that point?

J.T. That is right. She is ready for it, and she had never used the word before, my Teacher, Rabboni.

H.H. It is evident that she carried this message correctly, which is not always done. "Go to my brethren".

J.T. Quite so. I do not think she carried it verbatim; she carried it in her own estimate of the thing. In verse 18 it says, "Mary of Magdala comes bringing word to the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had said these things to her". It would look to me ass if she would put them in he own words.

H.H. But she would convey the right sense.

J.T. She certainly did. It is more to one's credit, not to put things verbatim, as we have heard them from others, but to put them in our own language. If we are to graduate into assembly speaking we ought to put things in our own language, name them in our own way, and speak of them.

H.H. That is very helpful and suggestive.

J.T. If a sister who has been at a meeting tells you what is said, she puts it in her own language if

she understands it. We have now come to what the word 'therefore' alludes to. "When therefore it was evening on that day, which was the first day of the week, and the doors shut where the disciples were, through fear of the Jews, Jesus, came and stood in the midst, and says to them. Peace be to you". The thing in the instruction is turning, and she has done her part in it. The Lord will see that her part is to be there (and running through). We are now dealing with assembly matters and assembly formation, and this woman has her part in it and it will be an eternal part too.

A.R. Bringing word is a most important thing, is it not? It is not news, it is an expression of what the Lord had committed to her rightly conveyed to the disciples. Her communication paves the way for the Lord to come.

J.T. Just so. We ought to notice the use of the word 'came'. We began with the idea of coming and going in love, an order of things, divine Persons having part in it. The deliverance from the present situation is involved in this, that we have something that leads us outside of what is current. So we must not forget to notice the Lord saying, "Touch me not". She would be ardent and touch Him, but He forbids her, "for I have not yet ascended to my Father". The Lord is telling us that the idea of ascension comes in at this point, not simply going up, but ascending; and the relation in which we are set, to "my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God". Therefore, we are at the very top, so to speak, of the family thought, in the elevation of it, for His Father is ours and His God is ours.

J.T.Jr. She had these things in her. It would be a similar thought to what we had this morning, the Father's love for the Son in us, and now this great

thought, "I ascend". She has to take a journey with these great thoughts in her heart.

J.T. Yes, what a merging thought, "My Father and your Father, and to my God and your God". It is ascending. It is an upper region to which He is going, and all these precious family relations are there. It is an out-of-the-world condition of things. Mary Magdalene comes bringing word, meaning that there is intelligence in what she is bringing to the disciples. It is not simply a message, but word to the disciples that she had seen the Lord and that He had said these things to her. The next point, already alluded to, is that the day is mentioned, "When therefore it was evening on that day, which was the first day of the week, and the doors shut where the disciples were, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and says to them, Peace to be you". There is the time and the place, and what a time! The first day of the week is mentioned twice in this chapter, a hallowed day that is to run through, indicating an eternal state of things. Then there is the Lord coming, not simply as in Luke, where it is said that the Lord stood in their midst, but John says, "Jesus came".

A.B.P. In regard to Thomas, it says he was not with them when Jesus came.

J.T. What a miss that was! It shows that the Lord is not present permanently, but that there is a coming and going, and that marks this present time. God is going on with us, and building us up in our constitutions by this coming and going, these appearings of the Lord. They are the great events of this time. The more we understand it, the greater it is. In John 20 there is the inauguration of the assembly in principle, and the whole idea is brought in awaiting the assembly principles that we have in the Acts.

A.E.H. The word "Mary ... comes bringing" conveys a living thought that is characteristic of the whole assembly history.

J.T. Scarcely a woman came with such an impression as this. It is a present event, but the importance of it is the message, what she said, what she could carry. It is really the inauguration of the assembly.

J.V.S. Further impressions follow as He shows them His hands and side.

J.T. Let us read it, "The doors shut where the disciples were, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and says to them, Peace be to you. And having said this, he shewed to them his hands and his side". These things are mentioned in a certain order. He came, and stood, and said, "Peace be to you. And having said this, he shewed to them his hands and his side. The disciples rejoiced therefore, having seen the Lord. Jesus said therefore again to them, Peace be to you". It looks as if the Lord is intent on our understanding that these things are wonderful; it was the inauguration of the assembly, and we are told of the movements that enter into the matter.

A.N.W. Does the tense of "came" in verse 19 imply what is inaugural; in verse 26 the word is, "Jesus comes". That seems to emphasis the inaugural character of the first coming.

J.T. Yes, quite so. I think that it is good to see the distinct character of the first coming; the second is not so important. Chapter 21 brings out how the assembly in these circumstances leads up to what is coming historically or prophetically, namely, the Jews being brought in. The assembly's part is finished in the first passage in John 20:17 - 23 -- the Lord's first coming, but the second coming in verse 26 has in mind a state of unbelief in one. Thomas is there when the Lord comes "eight days

after" and attention is called to his unbelief, but attention is also called by this to what is to characterise the coming situation, the introduction of the Jewish period. The millennium is to be a period of sight. The Lord teaches us by Thomas who represents the Jews, and shows how they will be established in the truth by the facts, by sight. The Lord "says to Thomas, Bring thy finger here and see my hands; and bring thy hand and put it into my side; and be not unbelieving, but believing. Thomas answered and said to him, My Lord and my God. Jesus says to him. Because thou hast seen me thou hast believed: blessed they who have not seen and have believed". The Jewish period is there indicated. Thomas is established by what the Lord shows to him, and Thomas acknowledges and confesses Him as "My Lord and my God". The Jewish position is confirmed in all that, and then what we have is also touched on, which is very precious for us to carry in our hearts. "Blessed they who have not seen and have believed". I suppose in the millennial period it will always be understood that we are those who have been brought into being and into the assembly on the principle of faith. It is a faith period now, but then it will be a sight period. What is effected in the faith period is touched on here, and we should be encouraged to have faith as the Lord says, "Have faith in God" (Mark 11:22). How can we stand at the present time if we have not faith in God?

H.H. "To whom coming, a living stone, cast away indeed as worthless by men, but with God chosen, precious" (1 Peter 2:4).

J.T. Quite so, blessedness now is to those who have not seen and yet have believed. They saw Him going up and the faith period began then. "A cloud received him out of their sight" (Acts 1:9). Two men stood by them as they gazed into heaven. It is not

that now, but going back into the upper room and learning to see things spiritually. The upper room stands for that.

A.R. We do not see, and yet we do see, the Lord coming among us; we never see Him bodily, but we know He is there.

J.T. It is on the principle of faith.

A.B.P. The Lord says in Revelation 22:16, "I am the root and offspring of David, the bright and morning star". Does that link on with the incoming we have been speaking of in regard to Thomas, and should that fill the hearts of the saints in this dispensation especially as being at the end of it? Would that all go to develop sentiment to fill out and intensify assembly service?

J.T. Exactly so, to intensify the thing. The Lord has helped us greatly as to assembly service and what we say when He comes in.

F.N.W. Would the word in the first of Acts, "a cloud received him out of their sight", Acts 1:9 help us to get on to spiritual lines?

J.T. It does, that is what is intended. Now we have the third manifestation; we have just spoken of the first and second and it says in chapter 21, "This is already the third time that Jesus had been manifested to the disciples, being risen from among the dead". We are in a period of manifestations, as if there is light shining around us in that sense on the principle of faith. It is the third time. It looks as if the third manifestation would lead us into millennial conditions to be apprehended now on the principle of prophecy. It is wholesome and sanctifying to come into things on the line of prophecy. The brethren began with that at the revival, and it greatly affected the saints by bringing the Lord into prominence. We think of prophecy now in the sense of ministry, but we should not forget what is coming,

as set before us in the prophetic word of the prophets in the Old Testament.

A.E.H. What do you think of the disappointing first expedition in chapter 21 before the prophetic line of things is opened up?

J.T. We have seven distinguished brothers here but they move in the wrong direction. "Simon Peter says to them, I go to fish", and they are led wrongly although seven in number and distinguished, at least most of them were, and they get nothing. There must be something in that as to the possibility of wrong leading. One knows, we all know more or less, how many sorrowful things have happened, men leading others in the wrong direction; all the divisions resulted from this; 1845, 1848, 1881, 1884, 1890, 1908. These were all of that character, men going a certain way in the wrong direction and others following them. Is there not a danger at the present time of that, of being led astray? It seems to me the Lord has been very good to us in saving us from these terrible divisions for a good many years now, but is there not a great need for watching, especially among those of us who have ability to serve, lest there should be any rivalry? Here there is no evidence of rivalry at all; they are moving together. It is a great matter to have before us that the Lord might spare any one of us from becoming a leader for the wolf to get in.

A.E.H. It helps to notice that recovery starts from a real exposure. Peter had to recognise he was naked.

H.H. On the other hand, these crises have yielded much for those who have faced the thing.

J.T. Well, the encouraging thing is that the Lord had something, which enters into what we are saying. The Lord had something, and He gives it a dignified name. The food was not simply something to eat; He used the expression, "Come and

dine". It is the thought of dignity that is intended to deliver us from all this into which these seven men fell.

A.E.M. Has the Lord always watched these situations very carefully through the history? Is that why we have been saved? It is a comfort in view of possible dangers of this kind, that the Lord is the first to move when there is such a thing happening.

J.T. Yes, that is very beautiful, and then what follows, how much He cares for the sheep and the lambs, and He appoints Peter to feed them and lead them. It is all very beautiful, not only for the sheep but for Peter himself, and how ready he was to recover himself. Very few of these men who have led wrongly in our times recovered themselves, but Peter was able to do it.

J.H.E. Would this be the expression of grace on God's side?

J.T. Quite so, "Come and dine". He prepared the dinner and invited them to come. Then we must not forget there were one hundred and fifty-three fish. "Bring of the fishes which ye have now taken". The Lord would say, I am going to eat them too. It is the setting up of a mutual condition out of apparent disaster, a beautiful and fruitful and mutual condition.

J.W. Why does Peter always give preference to John? In John 13 he makes a sign.

J.T. He makes it easy for John to be first. It shows he is ready to help John. He beckoned to him. Peter acts without words, reckoning that John was spiritual, because he is the one who discerns. John could take liberty in speaking to the Lord.

F.S.C. Are you referring to what God can do in the present conditions in the world to bring about His ends in the nations?

J.T. I think the Lord would enable us to meet these awful conditions that have arisen on the earth.

God would show that He has something to work with and operate in to offset them, so there is deliverance not only for the saints, but right principles. It would be a great time truly if the whole truth might be enlarged on that the Lord has made clear to us in the ministry.

THE ASSEMBLY AS SEEN IN THE CLOSE OF THE GOSPELS (3)

Luke 24:1 - 35

J.T. I believe we shall see that Luke contemplates a system governed by intelligence in man; lines of truth run through it showing that this intelligence is developed. It is a growth; hence angelic services are in such evidence here, but this chapter contemplates that there was want of intelligence. There ought to have been intelligence, meaning that the possibility of it was there. These women, for instance, are seen as acting unintelligently, but they are reminded of certain things that the Lord had said to them that they should have known, and indeed they had known but had forgotten. It says in verse 6, "He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spoke to you, being yet in Galilee, saying, The Son of man must be delivered up into the hands of sinners, and be crucified, and rise the third day. And they remembered his words". That is to say, they had the intelligence, but had forgotten. There can be no doubt the Lord's supper is intended to keep us rightly intelligent, because there is a tendency to forget. Then another thing that helps on this line is the presence of men toward the end. Angelic service is in order at the beginning, but we have in Luke 9, for instance, two men who were Moses and Elias appearing on the mount, and here in chapter 24, verse 4, we have two men. In the Acts, we also find two men, as if God had in mind in His counsels to make much of men, giving them pre-eminence even over angels; so although these are doubtless angels, they are not called angels. The idea of men is kept in mind both here and in Acts 1. Then in this chapter we have two men, one of whom is not named, but they are called senseless which

is a very humbling thought. They should have known and they did not know, so that it would seem as if the idea of remembrance needs to be kept in view. The Lord's supper is a memorial, to be kept rightly and intelligently; we are all so apt to forget.

J.T.Jr. The first two in Luke 24:4, would have in a way, I suppose, a mutuality between them in what they were saying, and an intelligent link, too.

J.T. They recall what the women had done. There is power to recall things in us.

A.R. Do the two men represent the system of which you are speaking?

J.T. Well, I suppose systematic operations are in mind, and grace is in mind, not judgment. The human side is stressed. I suppose a man loves because he is forgiven according to chapter 7, but then the Lord has in mind that there should be systematic forgiveness and continuous, not to limit it, seventy times seven.

A.N.W. Did you say you have the Lord's supper in mind in this matter of remembrance you are pressing?

J.T. Yes, I am thinking of that. The incident at Emmaus was not the Lord's supper, but was very like it, something that was to become established as a memorial. It is not to establish what the Roman Catholics speak of as the Eucharist, which is one kind, and is false, of course. The idea of one kind is to make way for the two kinds, that is, the bread and cup.

F.S.C. The Corinthians had forgotten this, had they not? Paul said, "For I received from the Lord, that which I also delivered to you".

J.T. The word translated 'remembrance' has an active signification of recalling or 'calling to mind', as a memorial -- 'for the calling me to mind'. This reference has greatly clarified the Lord's supper. Paul said that he had received the truth of the Lord's

supper from the Lord, which only confirms what we are saying, that it was necessary to have it at Corinth. There was a remarkable work of God at Corinth but there was apparent shallowness and that is usually accompanied by forgetfulness, so the apostle evidently uses great care in recording the matter in the first letter. The fact that it was needed is clearly shown in the conduct that arose in the assembly, most scandalous conditions really. They ate the Lord's supper and called it the Lord's supper, but Paul says it is not really that at all. They were despising the assembly in what they were doing. Evidently it furnishes the occasion for him to give the thing clearly, as we often have it in our meetings on Lord's day morning. We never tire of it because it is so accurate; the wording is only found in 1 Corinthians 11. Much as to it is found in the gospels, but it is carefully worded in this first epistle to the Corinthians in order to stress the idea of the memorial: "In like manner also the cup, after having supped, saying. This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye shall drink it, in remembrance of me" 1 Corinthians 11:25. That is added in this epistle to enlarge the idea of a memorial.

A.E.H. Is there any connection in your mind between this memorial in the Lord's supper, and what Jehovah says to Moses at the burning bush in regard to His name? "This is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. Go and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, Jehovah the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, hath appeared to me, saying, I have indeed visited you" (Exodus 3:15,16).

J.T. I believe there is. I would connect that with later communications to Moses, what is said in the giving of the law in Exodus 20. After the law is given, Jehovah mentions the altars that they were to set up, not the ones that were formally established in

the tabernacle, but first an altar of earth and secondly an altar of stone, and in that connection, "Where I shall make my name to be remembered, I will come unto thee, and bless thee" (Exodus 20:24). It looks as if it is intended to be linked on in the New Testament, as in the Lord's supper, but linked on with the service of God even as in the Old Testament.

A.E.H. So that following that this suggestive idea comes in in verse 25 of chapter 20, "And if thou make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone" (Exodus 20:25). That links on with the permanency and eternal character of the service of God.

J.T. Yes, and we sometimes find ourselves unable to go on to the heavenly side of things. The meeting is sometimes shallow and it is well to admit our weakness and God accepts us accordingly. So it says, "And if thou make me an altar of stone"(Exodus 20:25) as if the Lord has left open whether we are equal to it. The 'if' is not attached to the idea of the altar of earth, because there can be no service at all without it.

A.E.H. If we find ourselves deficient or weak in regard to going on to the glorious aspects in the service of God, it may be traceable to our failure in this matter of memorial or remembrance.

J.T. Therefore, the memorial in Exodus 3, you remember, is on a very high level. It is a question of the name of Jehovah involving really the mysterious name of Jah. That is the highest level in the Old Testament, I would think, where the service of God is introduced; that name is to be before them, and it is to be before them as a memorial. "This is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations" (Exodus 3:15).

A.R. Do the two men standing with white robes suggest the idea of intelligence in their standing ready for the service?

J.T. They stood in white clothing. You will notice that it is the same form of expression that we

get in chapter 2 where we have an angel standing by suddenly there. Here it is two men. It is the same expression only the angelic idea is dropped, showing it is the idea of humanity that is developed in this gospel. Angels have the first place in the service, for Gabriel, a leading angel, is very prominent in the first chapter, but the angelic idea is dropped apparently for the human idea because it is a question of counsel. Man is in the divine counsels.

A.B.P. It says, "They found not the body of the Lord Jesus". That is repeated later. Does that enter into the matter you are speaking about? At Corinth the question of discerning the body comes in.

J.T. They were really not in the right way. It was not to be found. There is some relation here, I would believe, with the conduct at Corinth. The Lord's supper could not be found in what they were doing, nor can it be found in the many religious systems of Christendom, where it is professed to be celebrated. You can hardly discern it. The Lord carefully gave it accurately to Paul. The Lord knew well what would occur in the history of the assembly in the way of controversy in regard to the Lord's supper.

A.E.M. This matter of bringing to remembrance seems to be very important. "The Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and will bring to your remembrance all the things which I have said to you" (John 14:26).

J.T. That is good; there is no inaccuracy there. The Lord is pleased, I suppose you would say, to put into our hands a precious memorial in accurate wording, the wording entrusted to a trusted man, to Paul. We have accurate wording doubtless in John 20, too, in the message through Mary, but it was not verbatim. Paul spoke, I would think, in the actual words the Lord communicated.

H.G.H. Is the fact that we need to have our memories refreshed a natural weakness or a spiritual weakness?

J.T. We are reminded that it is a natural weakness of the mind, but I would think that in general it involves that the mental power a brother may have by the Spirit is essential to all that relates to the service of God, the Spirit acting on our minds. Hence we have the remarkable expression in 1 Corinthians 2:16, "We have the mind of Christ", which is an allusion to the thinking faculty. It is the spiritual faculty, our own natural minds of course, but the spiritual idea is the thing we have to rely on. So even when the natural powers fail the Lord helps us on the spiritual line, and so Moses was able to carry on at one hundred and twenty years of age. He would retain the idea of a memorial that Jehovah expected. "This is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations" (Exodus 3:15).

H.H. The memorial seems to be connected with holiness. This reference to the burning bush is on that line. There are several references from Psalm 30:4 to Psalm 135:13. They seem to stand very closely in relation to holiness which I thought connected with the Supper.

C.N. What is to be understood by not distinguishing the body in 1 Corinthians 11:29?

J.T. Well, it would mean the body of Christ. It involved the physical body of Christ, but then the spiritual body, I would say, was in mind, too. That is to be discerned. It is a question of discernment. They were failing in that regard -- not discerning the body.

C.N. This memorial rightly understood helps us then in the discerning of the body, and the mystical body, as you say.

J.T. It does, and it is most important that we should keep it in mind in the ministry. We have

been helped as to the kingdom of God, how it stands in relation to the assembly. The assembly is in mind in 1 Corinthians, in fact, "so also is the Christ" 1 Corinthians 12:12 alludes to it, to the mystical, or spirituality of the body of Christ, the assembly. It is discerned there -- in the assembly.

C.A.M. The Lord reserved the Supper to give it from heaven to Paul. Would there be in using Paul some thought as to a man's feelings so as to touch us in a special way? What brought it to my mind was the fact that you are noting that there are services angels do and then it changes to services men do.

J.T. I think so. It is not said angels are made in the image and likeness of God. It is man. "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" (Genesis 1:26) and that is intended to be in the mind from the start, from Genesis 1. It is intended to be in the mind of the learner, because the Bible was written for learners; for persons who would learn by discipline as well as by experience, and so the idea of man came right down until we come to Christ. And there it is that we have the Man; and Luke is the man, the minister, who is taken up to set out the Christ as Man. There can be no doubt that the books of Chronicles are intended to link on with Luke's account; that is, his gospel and the Acts. Hence in the first book of Chronicles the first word is "Adam". It was intended to be that and so it runs down until we come to Luke, and he says he wrote with method. He makes a good deal of angels at first, but he drops the thought and stresses the idea of man. I have no doubt that the apostle Paul is intended to represent manhood in the ministry; hence he is taken up in the ministry of the gospel, and the assembly and, of course, the Lord's supper enters into that. It has its place there. The beginning of the service of God involves the Lord's supper, but the idea of manhood is there. Paul makes much of the idea of manhood.

"Quit yourselves like men; be strong" (1 Corinthians 16:13). "Until we all arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at then full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ" (Ephesians 4:13). That is in mind in the mystery, the truth of the assembly. It is a question of man, man and woman, of course, but the word 'man' covers both in Genesis.

D.P. Would it be right to say the angels were used by God to hold the ground until men were formed to take it on?

J.T. Well, I think that is good, even in the sense of sonship. The idea of sonship was held by them and applied to them. The sons of God shouted for joy, and undoubtedly it was until man should appear, and hence wisdom says, "My delights were with the sons of men" (Proverbs 8:31), not angels. Angels are evidently in a subordinate position in the Scriptures. "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out for service on account of those who shall inherit salvation?" (Hebrews 1:14). Hebrews says man is made a little lower than the angels but crowned with glory and honour. That is beyond angels and above them.

R.W.S. Can Luke afford to bring in failure in men because of the system of grace to meet the failure?

J.T. And particularly to bring out the capability of recovery in man, the peculiar capability in Luke of recovery, particularly in Peter, for instance, and now in these two, one of whom is not named. How quickly they recover themselves, and surely that is a point for us at the present time, recovering ourselves and getting ourselves right; the Lord's supper has much to do with that.

A.E.H. Does it not seem that the Supper in this light as a memorial takes full account of the fact that we have been affected by the entrance and history of sin? It would seem that Adam, although

not in the knowledge of God in the same exalted way as we, perhaps must have had a conscious sense of God until sin came in. The workings of the devil were active in him and there was a void in his soul in regard of God.

J.T. Quite so; although Adam was really honoured in a sense -- he was not in the transgression. The second person made was not equal to the first; she is equal in material, and more than equal because she is made of man's flesh, a bone out of Adam, but at the same time she is deliberately inferior. That is to say, God had that in His mind. She can never be the first. It says, man and woman, and so Adam was not in the transgression. Timothy makes a point of that, saying that the woman was in the transgression; the man was brought into it, but Satan attacked the woman. All this is in mind in the Lord's supper; manhood suited to the assembly, because the assembly is in mind. The Lord's supper belongs to the assembly and it is necessary too, because of the recovering power of it coming round every week, the great recovering, restoring power of it.

J.K.P. This expression, "Why seek ye the living one among the dead?": should we not keep that before us in view of the memorial? I am thinking of the great preparation of the aromatic spices that took place, running along with certain customs, whereas it is the living One.

J.T. You can see how the light would be perpetuated by certain things added, these spices. It says, "They came to the tomb, bringing the aromatic spices which they had prepared. And they found the stone rolled away". That would be light dawning in the rolling away of the stone, but there was no light in the spices; it was a human thought. Then again, "When they had entered they found not the body of the Lord Jesus". It was not there. Light was dawning,

but what formation was there? It does not seem that there was any until we have these two men. The angels were men and they were shining. There was light there, as it were. "And as they were filled with fear and bowed their faces to the ground, they said to them. Why seek ye the living one among the dead?".

A.E.H. Is Luke supporting Paul's idea of all this wonderful system of things operating in a locality in that he speaks of "two men" here? It is not now "a multitude of the heavenly host" (Luke 2:13), but the smallest number you could have, but supported, showing Paul's assembly idea.

J.T. It is right, I suppose, adequate witness. The Lord said the testimony of two men is true and the Lord applies that to the Father and the Son which is remarkable, as if the idea of two men as witnesses is intended to be impressed upon us.

J.A.P. Is that why Paul confirms the resurrection also? There must have been a defect in Corinth. "For I delivered to you, in the first place, what also I had received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures; and that he was buried; and that he was raised the third day, according to the scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:3,4). That established the matter to the Corinthians.

J.T. Just so. It is important. The apostle reserved that until chapter 15. He intended to speak about the resurrection of Christ and the testimony to it, but chapter 11 is the death of Christ as a memorial. Christ is not presented as a memorial in the resurrection; it is Christ as in death so as to touch our affections.

H.G.H. It says of Peter that he went home and wondered at what had happened. The women received intelligence when it was called to their remembrance. Is that a suggestion for us, that we

acquire spiritual knowledge through memorial or remembrance, and by it we grow?

J.T. That is a good point. "And they remembered his words; and, returning from the sepulchre, related all these things to the eleven and to all the rest. Now it was Mary of Magdala, and Johanna, and Mary the mother of James, and the others with them, who told these things to the apostles". Notice the fact that the apostles are mentioned. Luke says as to the institution of the Supper that the twelve apostles were with Him. When the Lord took His seat He placed Himself at table, the twelve apostles with Him, as if the idea of the twelve was to be there as a witness. It has the idea that witness or testimony has come down as a refutation of all human innovations in regard to the Supper. The persons there were reliable, and especially in Luke you have things rightly attested. Hence we have two men which were Moses and Elias, and two men here, and two men in Acts 1. Now what was the effect on Peter here? It says, "And their words appeared in their eyes as an idle tale, and they disbelieved them. But Peter, rising up, ran to the sepulchre, and stooping down he sees the linen clothes lying there alone, and went away home, wondering at what had happened". "But Peter" -- there was something there that touched him although not yet fully confirmed. If we look at John's account we shall see that Peter believed already, when he saw how the clothes were laid. He believed and so the other disciple, which was John, also believed, showing that there is recoverability in a man if God is working in him although he may go very far. We may be sure he will come back.

J.B. So that Peter in his second epistle speaks of remembrance, but not in connection with the Supper. "I already write to you, in both which I stir up, in the way of putting you in remembrance" 2 Peter 3:1.

J.T. That is a good word, I am sure.

F.N.W. Isaiah, in chapter 26, refers to "the mind stayed on thee" Isaiah 26:3. Then in verse 8, "the desire of our soul is to thy name, and to thy memorial" Isaiah 26:8. Then there is reference to other lords having dominion; then he says, "Thy dead shall live, my dead bodies shall arise" Isaiah 26:19, alluding to the resurrection of Christ too.

J.T. That is all very interesting, because it points to what is current today, the things that are happening, and the great names that are mentioned every-day, whereas the Lord's people are going on with Him and His memorial. These great men will all perish as the passage says; they will not arise. Their names will not be handed down divinely, but the name of the Lord Jesus shall remain. The word in Psalm 41:5 is, "When will he die, and his name perish?", but His name is to endure for ever. That only emphasises what has been before us in these meetings. There is what is about to die and disappear for ever, however great men may be; not that God is not using these great men at the present time in governmental matters, but what the saints are going on with is centred in the Lord's supper, in the Lord Himself, who is risen from among the dead. We recall Him as One who died. He says Himself, "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore. Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death" (Revelation 1:18). His going into death was His own act. That is the One to remember.

J.H-tt. Is there a connection then in the end of 2 Timothy with the idea of the two? All forsook Paul, Luke alone is with him, as though recovery and continuance are in mind.

J.T. Quite so, "Demas has forsaken me" (2 Timothy 4:10).

A.R. Do you think the system of grace was working very slowly at Corinth? The man in the first letter was withdrawn from, but he was recovered and the brethren were slow to receive him back.

J.T. That is good. I believe that anyone who is the subject of the work of God may be regarded as recoverable and we must have great patience. The first illustrations of recovery are notable, especially Peter; what a good and quick recovery he made!

A.B.P. Do you have in mind that the bringing in of the Supper in relation to cases of this kind helps in recovery? Do you have in mind experience in relation to the Supper, or the Supper used as a means to recovery?

J.T. It looks as if induction into the assembly is almost identical with the acknowledgment of the Lord and His supper. Fellowship is a common and right word among us. Fellowship is in mind in persons seeking induction among us, and the fellowship is expressed in the Lord's supper, the fellowship of the Lord's death. It is remarkable that the cup is the first mentioned in regard to fellowship. The Roman Catholics say there is only one kind, that is, the bread; but the cup is the first thing mentioned in regard to fellowship in 1 Corinthians 10.

E.A.L. Is the Cleopas mentioned in verse 18 the same as the one mentioned in John 19:25, "And by the cross of Jesus stood his mother, and the sister of his mother, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala". Luke says he was astonished, and in John he is noticeable by his absence. Standing by the cross of Christ is necessary, is it not?

J.T. There is a good deal of instruction in all that and I suppose we ought to connect this Cleopas with the one in John 19 where it is a question of the women, the place of women in the testimony; they stand out peculiarly at times!

R.W.S. I want to ask as to the adjustment of the women which appears to be more rapid than the adjustment of the "two of them". It was a different case with the two, requiring more time and more skill.

J.T. Yes, and it would appear that these were two brothers. You might think it would be a man and his wife, but there is no evidence that they were really. It would be a question of the persons, the plural, two of them. "And behold, two of them were going on the same day to a village distant sixty stadia from Jerusalem, called Emmaus; and they conversed with one another about all these things which had taken place. And it came to pass as they conversed and reasoned, that Jesus himself drawing nigh, went with them; but their eyes were holden so as not to know him". I suppose the idea is that they are "two of them", two brothers with wholesome, profitable conversation although marked by unbelief. But they are recoverable, and there is more even than what appears on the surface; their hearts burned. "Was not our heart burning in us ... ?" They are recoverable and in a very real way. They are capable of being affected by what is simple and somewhat of the character of the Lord's supper. It is to remind us that the Lord's supper is the great point if we are to be recovered and maintained, because it is not only a memorial but it is food by which we are kept going.

A.N.W. 1 Corinthians 11:26 says, "Eat this bread, and drink the cup", striking words; it is not merely to taste or sip.

J.T. Quite so, I was thinking of that. The bread and cup are food, not only a memorial. In fact, we would not have the memorial if we were limited to Matthew and Mark. Food is the idea there, whereas the memorial is especially spoken of by Luke and by Paul in Corinthians.

A.B.P. Is there stimulation also, as well as sustenance?

J.T. Stimulation, I should think, in the cup. It is not mentioned in the wording of the Supper that it

was wine, but there is no doubt it was that, and it would suggest stimulation.

C.N. What is to be learned by these two communications being given to women in both John and Luke?

J.T. Well, Mary's communication, as we had yesterday, is more specific and involves more instruction, the most precious instruction; indeed, corresponding to the epistle to the Ephesians, I would say. Here in Luke, "they remembered his words". What are these words? The words are, "He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spoke to you, being yet in Galilee, saying, The Son of man must be delivered up into the hands of sinners, and be crucified, and rise the third day. And they remembered his words". Now the words are not equal in bearing or quality with those that Mary of Magdala carried to the disciples according to John's gospel. Therefore, I would say we are on somewhat lower though important ground. It is a question of recovery. The message given to Mary was not for recovery; she was fit for the message. She understood how to mention it to the apostles. She went to them and said that she had seen the Lord and He had said these things to her and among them, "I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God" (John 20:17). These women in Luke are not up to that, but these are important words if it is a question of recovery; the idea of the Lord's supper is therefore all the more important; it stands in relation to the recovery of the saints, and then their maintenance through food in the power of testimony.

A.P. What are we to learn from the different ways in which the Lord comports Himself with His disciples, evidently allowing time to hear what they had to say and then opening up slowly and awaiting the development of the work in their souls so as to understand His service toward them? What would

be involved in that service now, the way in which the Lord appears? First of all their eyes are holden and then later He listens to them as to the matter of what they had learned. "And some of those with us went to the sepulchre, and found it so, as the women also had said, but him they saw not".

J.T. We ought to spend a little time on it if we are to get the full truth but I am not sure that we have the time. It is just as well to get this because it is a very important matter, the idea of the resumption of teaching and the severe rebuke that is attached to it. "O senseless and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!". Well, now we are told here in verse 13 of "two of them". They were going in the wrong direction, into the country, to a village sixty stadia away. We have to bear all that in mind in view of what the Lord has to say to them to recover them. "And some of those with us went to the sepulchre, and found it so, as the women also had said, but him they saw not. And he said to them, O senseless and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into his glory?". Now we are coming to the truth from the lips of the Lord Jesus. Here are two persons setting out to travel seven miles in unbelief, and, of course, if they went further they would be further in unbelief, but the Lord stops them. He checks the movement of unbelief in this way with this rebuke. We ought to notice that. We are not to read certain books only, but all the books, all the prophets. "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into his glory?". How beautiful that is; the Lord spoke of His own glory. It is very like Luke to speak in this methodical way, "And having begun from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself". You wonder how He could have done that

in such a short time, because it was a comparatively short time in which to go over all these books. "He interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself". A beautiful word, not simply going over things in a sort of educational way, but the Lord Himself. It is the Lord Himself who touches us if we are to be recovered. What a time they must have had! We can well understand when they said their hearts were burning. It is after He had left them, had vanished, and they set out for Jerusalem. The Lord Jesus had given the most wonderful exposition of Scripture, perhaps, that we have.

A.E.H. They seem to be like two believers who know nothing of the Spirit's operations and living system of things. They supposed He would have redeemed Israel, and then they constrained Him to stay with them , as if to say. Let us go on with the way things have been, but He is moving on to great things and we must go with Him.

J.T. We are reminded here of the religious seminaries and such like institutions. They have not the living Christ really. The Lord here points to Himself. It is a question of recovery. Some think they can stay in the seminaries and study the Scriptures, whereas the point here is that the Lord Jesus is the object of the heart, and recovery is finding an object in the Lord.

A.B.P. In relation to that certain words, in effect, shall serve as milestones in the recovery -- verse 24, "him they saw not"; verse 27, "interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself"; verse 31, "they recognised him"; and in verse 36, "he himself stood in their midst" Luke 24:36.

J.T. Yes, you can see how the Lord is in the thing right through. He is setting them in movement in the interpretation He gives of the Scriptures from Moses onward. It is Himself. We learn presently that He vanished, but they find Him in the assembly

later in Jerusalem. That is the point that we come to, the assembly. These interpretations that the Lord gives lead us to the assembly.

A.R. Is there some suggestion in Him taking the house-father's place in Emmaus?

J.T. There is indeed, and what goes before, "Stay with us", not stay in our house but with us. "For it is toward evening and the day is declining". They give a reason why He should. "And he entered in to stay with them". An empty house would be nothing to Him; it is a question of those two persons. He has already touched their hearts, and He knew they were burning but they do not say anything about that yet. The Lord went in with them, because He is going to do something more. "And it came to pass as he was at table with them, having taken the bread, he blessed, and having broken it, gave it to them. And their eyes were opened, and they recognised him". Their eyes were holden before, but now they were opened. The assembly is largely a question of the persons whom we see. It will be that in eternity too. As they recognised Him, He disappeared from them. Notice what is going on in their heart. "Was not our heart burning". It is the singular. "Was not our heart burning in us as he spoke to us on the way, and as he opened the scriptures to us? And rising up the same hour, they returned to Jerusalem. And they found the eleven, and those with them, gathered together, saying, The Lord is indeed risen and has appeared to Simon". That is what they were saying, and then "they related what had happened on the way, and how he was made known to them in the breaking of bread".

A.E.H. Is there any guide in this as to houses where you would be free to stay overnight?

J.T. Well, I think the Lord in Luke helps us in the instruction to the seventy. If they reach a city they enquire for the son of peace, and if there be one

they stay there. We have to look out for the son or sister of peace and stay there. We have the further case of Lydia, "If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and abide there" (Acts 16:15). She is entitled morally to that. She knew she was faithful, and puts it on that basis. I would say that is the basis of entering into a house and abiding there.

A.R. They say He was made known to them in the breaking of bread.

J.T. It helped them and it helps us many times. The Lord's supper is the suggestion in the whole matter, and they are touched by it. It shows they are recovered; the Lord had recourse to the recoverable power of the Supper.

A.P.T. The first clause in verse 33 would involve looking into the matter locally. "And rising up the same hour, they returned to Jerusalem". Recovery is taking place.

J.T. They certainly were good cases. They are turned right around; they are converted, and the Lord did it. They did not turn until He vanished, having blessed the bread, showing that the Lord's supper is the great recovering point.

F.N.W. Is our understanding of the glory of Christ dependent on this?

J.T. Quite so. We get that as we proceed in the Lord's supper. We enter into the full service of God which involves the glory.

THE ASSEMBLY AS SEEN IN THE CLOSE OF THE GOSPELS (4)

Luke 24:36 - 53

J.T. There can be no doubt that this section is the culmination of the instruction which begins in the first chapter where we have the Babe, at least the Lord's birth, contemplated, and which involves His conception and birth in chapter 2 which we already noted, the suddenness with which the angel appeared and called attention to the sign involved in the birth of the Lord, and the reference to His condition in the manger which is peculiar to Luke. The instruction thus begun is followed up with the Lord's humanity, that is, His manhood, not simply babyhood, but manhood. The babyhood, boyhood, and manhood of Christ are contemplated in this account and there can be no doubt the Spirit of God intended that the link should be maintained with the whole account in the Scriptures, the whole testimony involving the manhood of Christ, His incarnation. What is said about Adam's creation and Eve's is to be noted, and then the reference later to humanity in the book of Leviticus, the birth of children, male and female, and how the incoming of children involved uncleanness, showing that the moral issue was raised; all that brings out the infinite holiness of the Lord's conception and birth. Luke has this in mind in calling attention, particularly in this chapter, to humanity as it is in Him. Hence it is said, "And as they were saying these things, he himself stood in their midst". The Man is there in these extraordinary and peculiar circumstances, but still a Man; this points to what is to abide, that is, as to physical condition in the Lord.

A.E.H. The line of instruction beginning with the introduction of that holy thing would show that we must take things up from that standpoint.

J.T. I think that is right. The infinite holiness of Christ's conception and birth are conveyed in the words, "that holy thing". In Paul's word, "Since otherwise indeed your children are unclean, but now they are holy" (1 Corinthians 7:14), holiness is predicated of the children of believing parents, but only in a provisional way, not intrinsically so; whereas Christ was intrinsically holy, so the word refers to what was substantial. "That holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:35). That thought is intended to be fixed into our souls as to the humanity of Christ. We have much detail about the Lord; and in this the basis is laid for the humanity of believers, not simply as baptised or converted, but the whole physical condition of humanity in the believer, as it is to be eternally. It is clear that the subject of humanity in the Old Testament is initial, whereas the New Testament contemplates it as final; hence we are told of "his body of glory", and that we are to be transformed into conformity to it. Our body of humiliation is to be changed into the likeness of His body of glory. The use of the word 'glory', it would seem, is to bring out finality in the thing; that it is finished, and we are conformed to it.

A.E.H. In the spiritual history of our souls it would seem as though we start with apprehending Christ as the Babe, holding to this idea of the holy thing, and then progress until we come to understand the full-grown man, Jesus Himself.

J.T. Luke has that in mind and in our subject it links on with Paul. The idea of humanity as it is in Christ is developed in Paul's ministry and enters into the truth of the assembly, where we have the idea of male and female continued. Luke contemplates infancy. Matthew goes a little further. In the beginning he deals with the boy Jesus, but Luke begins with the thought of infancy. Even in regard of ordinary children Luke calls them infants. The

Lord took infants in His arms which is very touching, as if we should become accustomed to the idea of humanity in its weakness, and yet in its loveliness, in infants. The Lord Himself was an infant, but the full thought is developed and comes into evidence in Him. Luke has that in mind. Paul thinks of us as transformed into the image of Christ's body of glory, so that we have the finish of the thing which I think is important at this time. We should have God's thought of man before us, because humanity has come under terrible reproach in the universe, especially in modern times. Evil has arisen from the pit through the devil, and men desecrate each other, destroy each other, and take on the work of humiliation. The Lord would have us look into it and see in what dignity man is placed in God's mind. We have in Psalm 139:14 a remarkable touch as to this; the psalmist says, "I am fearfully, wonderfully made", as if God would, in view of the assembly, lift the thought of man into its proper dignity.

C.A.M. Would you say a further word about connecting the physical with the eternal conditions? You used the word 'physical' in regard to the Lord's body. The link with His body here on earth and the eternal conditions is a very interesting matter.

J.T. What is being said, I think, will help, as we consider it, as to how the divine thought took form in Luke. Angelic service is made subservient to it. It is a question of humanity as over against every other order of being. Humanity was the divine thought and choice. Gabriel is brought into this matter in Luke and it is he who announces to Mary what should happen to her, and she takes the ground of obedience. "Behold the bondmaid of the Lord; be it to me according to thy word" (Luke 1:38). That was her humble resignation to the word of the angel, which was the word of God of course, "thy word". She was the chosen vessel and honour is accorded to her

as we get earlier, "the angel came in to her, and said. Hail, thou favoured one! the Lord is with thee: blessed are thou amongst women" (Luke 1:28).

H.H. Would you say a word as to the connection of this with what we have in Luke 24?

J.T. What I have been saying is preliminary, leading up to this passage where the Lord is seen standing in the midst. We shall see later that He presented Himself living. That is, He would be an object for our attention, and perhaps adoration, in a living sense, because life contemplates all the beautification that attaches to man. In Ezekiel, which is not to be overlooked in our inquiry, we have the dry bones, how bone came to bone; the prophetic ministry of the Spirit of God acting brought in a humanity usable in the millennium. It is an exceeding great army, the military side attaching to it, but still it is humanity, bone is brought to bone, and the flesh is there, as if the whole idea is in mind; but the full and complete idea of Man is in Christ, the fulfilment of what was in divine counsels, the order of being that God is taking pleasure in is in mind here in our chapter.

A.B. The Lord had already spoken of the prophets. Do you think Isaiah 9 might be especially in His mind? Manhood is in view there, "a child is born", and "a son is given" Isaiah 9:6. What He was in manhood is wonderfully brought out there. Then in chapter 32, "a man shall be as a hiding-place from the wind, and a covert from the storm; as brooks of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a thirsty land" Isaiah 32:2.

J.T. That is very good. We really ought to be equal to the suggestions of Isaiah because of the peculiar pungency in all he says. He has manhood in mind from the outset and has in mind that in a moral sense it is to be depicted in the Lord Jesus. "Who hath believed our report? and to whom hath

the arm of Jehovah been revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender sapling, and as a root out of dry ground: he hath no form nor lordliness, and when we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and left alone of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief, and like one from whom men hide their faces; despised, and we esteemed him not" (Isaiah 53:1 - 3). It seems as though we need that too, because it is this particular section that is brought into the gospel in Acts 8. It seems as if that is the moral side that necessarily enters into what we are saying. But what we began with should be followed up, that is, what was said about the humanity of the Lord as seen in this chapter, because it is the consummation of the instruction.

A.N.W. Is there anything in the Lord's humanity in resurrection that would justify or excuse them in supposing it was a spirit?

J.T. The Lord says, "A spirit has not flesh and bones". The word is to direct our view to humanity in its physical characteristics, because the physical was there. In Genesis 2 Adam was made, we are told, of dust of the ground, as if humiliation is attached to it; God breathed into him and man became a living soul. The physical side is important so that we may see what we are to have eternally both in the Lord and in ourselves.

H.G.H. Does the Lord's word, "Handle me and see" impress us with humanity in resurrection?

J.T. That is the idea, I think. He was there to be examined, as it were, which is an important thing; that is no scientific matter because it is outside of science. Psalm 139, already alluded to, is outside of science but there is, nevertheless, the use of the words 'wonderful' and 'fearful' which the speaker knew right well. So the Lord is here, it seems to me, to be examined. We are to view Him with reverence,

surely, and with holiness, but at the same time the Lord was here to be examined.

H.B. Would beautification be seen in the house of Solomon in the cedar-wood being carved with cherubim and half-open flowers?

J.T. That affords the environment there. The ark was there. It is the same ark, but in glorious surroundings.

A.N.W. Would it be right to say that the forty days of the Lord here in resurrection were that we might see that condition of manhood displayed practically and actually?

J.T. That is right, but we have to reserve that for our next reading. There is really no forty days here in Luke. It is right to bring it in, but it really belongs to a further reading, because it is an extension of what is before us; Luke does not give that. It would seem as if the Spirit of God in Luke has the thought of hastening on to the divine consummation, and that involves the administration that is to be inaugurated.

C.A.M. In connection with the expression, "The second man, out of heaven" (1 Corinthians 15:47), does that refer to origin -- He was not of earth? (see John 3:31). As coming here, He took a condition of humanity in order that He might die. There is what the Lord brought out of heaven, but He came into human condition, sinless, and this is the remarkable matter that we are talking about in Luke.

J.T. "The last Adam a quickening spirit",(1 Corinthians 15:45), Paul says; that is an enlargement of what we are speaking of, because it brings in His deity. He is a quickening Spirit, not a quickening man; that involves His deity as in human condition, and of course, it brings in a race of men quickened by Him. We are all to be quickened by Him, and that brings out how intimately we are related to Him. It is

well to look into it from its very beginning, its very essence, because it is a question of what the Lord was, not only as a Babe, but actually before; and how another unborn babe is moved on account of Him, showing what divine workings there are in relation to this matter of humanity in Christ, and also in believers.

C.N. Was there any difference between the humanity of Christ before the resurrection, and after His resurrection? He lived here as Man and died, and then after His resurrection He was seen again as a Man.

J.T. You are alluding to what He was here in the flesh. Well, there is a difference in the condition . He calls attention in resurrection to the fact that "a spirit has not flesh and bones as ye see me having". Before death He was in a flesh and blood condition which involved His ability to accomplish redemption. He has laid that down for ever. Redemption had to be accomplished in that condition, but being accomplished, the thoughts of God can proceed; the eternal thought can be reached in a condition such as described here, and in which we shall have part, a bloodless condition, so to speak. "Flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom", (1 Corinthians 15:50). We, too, shall have part in the eternal condition of humanity.

D.P. Would you say the humanity of Christ in resurrection could be recognised by those who knew Him?

J.T. Quite so, it is the same Person but the condition is altered.

H.H. There was no change in the order of humanity either before Christ's death or after; the condition is changed, but not the order.

J.T. Quite so, I suppose you mean the order as referring to the Person.

A.B.P. That would be confirmed, would it not, on the mount of transfiguration, no change in the order of the Person.

J.T. Quite so.

A.R. Is the truth of the body a humanity idea, a formation? I was wondering if you had that in mind.

J.T. We already touched on that matter in Ezekiel 37; the formation is accomplished on prophetic lines, the Spirit of God acting through the prophesying by Ezekiel. It is not a permanent thought; it is rather what belongs to the millennium. Psalm 139:14 - 18 reads, "I will praise thee, for I am fearfully, wonderfully made. Marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My bones were not hidden from thee when I was made in secret, curiously wrought in the lower parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my unformed substance, and in thy book all my members were written; during many days were they fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. But how precious are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them! If I would count them, they are more in number than the sand. When I awake, I am still with thee". It seems to me that the Spirit of God gives us in this psalm a prophetic suggestion that is figurative of the assembly. We get an insight into it, how it is formed, and the Lord Jesus is the beginning. He is here, as it says, "And as they were saying these things, he himself stood in their midst, and says to them. Peace be unto you". "He himself stood in their midst"; it is not a public matter. These are the things to be noted, what God is carrying on now privately but in view of the formation of the assembly.

C.A.M. Is that the suggestion of the deep sleep? Christ is not actively engaged in public matters.

J.T. Quite so, He is engaged with the assembly and the gospel. God is looking after the government in the world, but the Lord will take it on presently.

Outwardly He is not seen, but He is to be seen in us; He should be seen in all the saints. Hence He says to Paul, "Why persecutest thou me?" (Acts 9:4).

A.P.T. What is to be learned from the difference in His remarks here in Luke 24:38 - 48 and that to Mary in John 20; "Touch me not"?

J.T. A perfect condition is contemplated in John 20; it is abstract, but here we have the actual state they were in. John does not note that state, but speaks of things as they ought to be. Mary's message fitted in there, and the work of God would take form in view of the heavenly side of things. There is nothing to hinder it, whereas Luke takes account of the actual condition that was there. The essential thing was there; in effect recovery had already begun.

A.P. Is the thought of the Lord eating before them an extension of the teaching as to the new condition? Does it emphasise the reality of His condition as before them? It says, "He ... ate before them".

J.T. Well, just so. The state they were in, you might say, interfered with the teaching; it darkened the scene. "But they, being confounded and being frightened, supposed they beheld a spirit". They were somewhat like Mary Magdalene before the Lord made Himself known to her, and she called Him Rabboni. Conditions are not right here. That is what we ought to look into now, seeking to understand how we are to be in these things and in the condition of humanity according to the mind of God for us.

A.Pf. The Lord Himself stood in their midst. Would that do away with any thought that He was a spirit?

J.T. That is a historic fact. "He himself stood in their midst, and says to them. Peace be unto you. But they, being confounded and being frightened,

supposed they beheld a spirit". We have to look into this matter and seek to apprehend the humanity we have part in. John would help us to take account of the matter abstractly, but Luke would take account of things as they are and then how we come to the right thing.

C.N. In the verses you read from Psalm 139 the personal pronoun is often referred to. Does the thought there develop into the assembly in which we have part?

J.T. Well, it is a psalm, an Old Testament scripture, and we never get the full thought. We have to come to the New Testament for the full thought of everything, and therefore you might say we have to bring the assembly into it in order to find it. It is a question of whether our minds can follow the spiritual thought and work out the psalm as dealing figuratively with the assembly, and I am sure they can. The Lord has enabled us to look at these terms and gain from them and they help us. We see how far back the Spirit of God put down the thought of the assembly, only just the thought of it, not exactly to work it out doctrinally but in thought; we can see how the writer's mind was far removed from the sinful state in which humanity is degraded now.

F.K.C. Do you think "Handle me and see" would suggest the reality of that which we are now able to examine in a holy way?

J.T. That is what it is. We are entitled to do it.

T.S. Does God's approach to Ezekiel as 'son of man' emphasise the feeling side?

J.T. It does. Ezekiel has more references to the son of man than all other scriptures together, showing that man is in mind in Ezekiel and hence the remarkable description we have of the bones coming together; but remember, that before that, we have the idea of new birth, which is another secretive thing, not applying to the Lord Jesus, but to us. The

work in new birth brings us into this humanity of which we are speaking.

A.R. In 1 Corinthians 12:18 it says, "God has set the members, each one of them in the body, according as it has pleased him".

J.T. That is good, "as it has pleased him". Your mind is directed back to Eve; what a pleasure it was to God to have Eve to take to Adam, as if God knew Adam had some ability to estimate what she was. Therefore "this time" refers back to all the other creatures he had previously named, "This time it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh" (Genesis 2:23). So that 1 Corinthians works it out from there, and then Ephesians completes it, "Until we all arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man" Ephesians 4:13, but then the body of the assembly is contemplated as essential to that.

A.B. Is that why Luke in his accuracy here alludes to the Lord's own words, "Handle me and see"?

J.T. Quite so. I think we ought to fix our view now on Jesus standing here, although we may speak a little of what led up to this. Where was He from the time He left the house at Emmaus until He is seen here? He is not seen in the meanwhile, as far as Scripture records. We have noted that it does not say in Luke that He came. It is as if it is the mystical thought, that He is ever near to take part in what is going on in this great matter of humanity.

W.T. When David sits before the Lord, in 2 Samuel 7:19, does he get a view of this? He uses that expression, "Is this the manner of man".

J.T. It is a wonderful section in which David is greatly enlarged. It is a prophetic matter, however, because Nathan is brought into it and adjusts David, but when he is inside sitting before the Lord he is composed and says wonderful things. He is worshipful

so, I suppose, it was a question in his mind of the manner of Jehovah, not the manner of man in David, but the manner of Jehovah. That is what he meant.

A.E.H. Would you say that we hold the idea of humanity abstractly? In Christ personally all is seen concretely, here in flesh and blood, then resurrection, and then in glory, and also as in our midst. As to ourselves we are viewed as men in Christ, but there is constant need for adjustment, because of our state, to bring us to full-grown manhood; but we hold to the thing abstractly and go on.

J.T. That is right. They had to be adjusted and the passage has that in mind, and we finish with them as adjusted; they are in accord with Himself. You might say He could hardly leave them if they were not. It must be a finished matter as far as it goes. The Lord is doing the thing and He has humanity before Him, not only in Himself, but in them. That is the point, that they should be brought into accord with Himself.

A.E.H. Our considerations now are not exactly on prophetic lines, but on spiritual lines in which we handle, that is, in a contemplative sense, this idea of humanity in Christ, and we get adjustments to bring us on to the full thought in our spiritual minds.

J.T. That is right. Of course, the fact that we are priests helps us in that, and entitles us to go inside where all is understood. "Then understood I their end", says the psalmist in Psalm 73:17, and so in a meeting like this priesthood underlies all and the Kohathites particularly are involved. They carry the ark, but the priesthood itself preceded it and the things are taken down and handled carefully and covered. We have to remember that we are dealing with the most precious things now, and it is only priests who have the right to do these things.

A.E.H. They take down the veil of separation and spread it over the ark before movement forward takes place.

J.T. Well, the veil is the humanity of Christ.

A.MacD. Is that why Luke brings in the priest Simeon? He receives the Lord Jesus into his arms.

J.T. Very good. Simeon was an important witness here, a man in Jerusalem, not an ordinary man, and he was under the influence of the Spirit of God. He came into the temple by the Spirit, showing how thoroughly priestly and in keeping he was with what was there in "that holy thing". Luke is the gospel that presents the priesthood of Christ really. Simeon takes the child in his arms as if he were a Kohathite. The angel had spoken about it, "And this is the sign to you: ye shall find a babe wrapped in swaddling-clothes, and lying in a manger" (Luke 2:12). Then we have what the shepherds said; how they went to Bethlehem to see, and then we have Simeon, the priest, taking Him into his arms, as if God was taking care of that precious Babe by a suitable person, a man who was there by the Spirit, and was entirely in the hands of the Spirit.

H.G.H. It says of the disciples, "They yet did not believe for joy". Does that suggest that often our natural feelings might hinder our spiritual apprehension of things?

J.T. Well, that is what we notice here. "But they, being confounded and being frightened, supposed they beheld a spirit". In other words, they were confused and darkened, their own minds being allowed to act without light, but the Lord says to them, "Why are ye troubled?". This is how He meets this deranged situation. There is something to be looked into in each of us, why this condition should be. So the Lord says, "Why are thoughts rising in your hearts? behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Handle me and see, for a spirit

has not flesh and bones as ye see me having". So that it is quite right to regard this as an opportunity for holy examination of the Lord Jesus in His humanity as over against what is thought of Him. It is the real Person Himself.

J.B. The apostle Paul in speaking to the Thessalonians, occupies them with the Lord Himself rather than with events that were current. He says in the first epistle, "The Lord himself . .. shall descend" 1 Thessalonians 4:16; and then in the second epistle, "Our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and our God and Father ... encourage your hearts" 2 Thessalonians 2:16,17, and finally, "The Lord of peace himself give you peace" 2 Thessalonians 3:16.

J.T. Showing that we are going to have to do with Himself. Under certain circumstances He is to be seen in the assembly, but I think the word "himself" here and elsewhere, means that we have to do with Himself personally, not only in the assembly.

J.H-tt. Would we be brought to the point that Samuel was brought to when David stood before him? We are told that David "was ruddy, and besides of a lovely countenance and beautiful appearance" (1 Samuel 16:12), and the word immediately is, "This is he", as though there is no mistake about him.

J.T. Quite so. It was an urgent matter because David was under reproach, even overlooked by his father. How sorrowful that he should be left out, but when he comes in Jehovah says, "Arise, anoint him; for this is he" (1 Samuel 16:12). The great occasion had come. They had all been missing him, occupied with great people such as the eldest brother, but David was left out. What we have here is very beautiful, "This is he". Now the Lord is ready to submit to an examination for our sakes that we might be sure of Himself, His humanity.

A.R. They would watch Him eat the broiled fish and honeycomb.

J.T. He asked for that, but He says, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Handle me and see, for a spirit has not flesh and bones as ye see me having. And having said this he shewed them his hands and his feet". The Lord is graciously submitting to an examination, but is inscrutable nevertheless and we cannot penetrate; "No one knows the Son but the Father" (Matthew 11:27). He is, however, submitting to an examination for our sakes that we might become intelligent in what is within our range.

J.H.V. What would be the difference in John saying, "He shewed to them his hands and his side" John 20:20? Here it is "his hands and his feet".

J.T. That is another matter. John has in mind the formation of Eve. It is a question of Adam's side, a rib from his side, not his feet; whereas Luke has the grace side in mind and that implies travail and toil, so we have the Lord's feet, for instance, in chapter 7. He is anointed there by a sinner; those feet were valued by her because they carried Him to her. Now here it is His feet, always bearing in mind what we have already alluded to, that Luke contemplates a system of operations, but we must understand the persons who are involved in the operations and the Lord Jesus Himself is. That is what He is calling attention to now, and all that follows in this passage is to open this up so as to make them suitable to see Him going up. They go back to Jerusalem and go to the temple.

A.N.W. This would be a higher character of handling than that of Thomas in John 20.

J.T. Quite so. It is to bring out this, that real humanity marked the Lord and that it was a humanity that would be operational. He would as Man have part in the operations of God, and so when He goes up to heaven He is urgent, I would say. The forty days alluded to elsewhere are not mentioned here. It would look as if the Lord's thought was to

get to the finish of things on hand at that time in view of this dispensation and the operations of grace. Even before the Spirit came down the disciples are in the temple doing something. They are able to do something and to speak well of things in the temple.

A.B. Would John's first epistle be the outcome of this handling?

J.T. He enlarges on it further from his own point of view. "That which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes; that which we contemplated, and our hands handled, concerning the word of life" (1 John 1:1). That is what John and others contemplated, but I think that all they had seen in His ministry would be in mind there. John would mean what the apostles had actually witnessed in the Lord's ministry, not only after He arose.

A.N.W. He uses the word 'contemplated', which would be a longer matter.

J.T. That is good. It is a longer matter.

J.W. Stephen, in Acts 7, when suffering from the violence of the Jews, saw the glory of God and Jesus.

J.T. He said that he saw the Son of man. It is almost the only passage where the Son of man is mentioned outside of the gospels.

J.L.P. You made the remark about speaking well in the temple. Would Anna come before us as one on such lines? She departed not from the temple "and spoke of him to all those who waited for redemption in Jerusalem" (Luke 2:38).

J.T. Quite so, she was a real servant; she did not speak simply to one sister or brother in Jerusalem but to all who looked for redemption in Israel. That is what the Lord would make all of us -- real servants. It is a system of grace and all are to be brought into it.

T.E.H. Would it be right to say that she was of the priestly family because she praised the Lord?

J.T. Quite so. She was really of Asher, but she was a priest undoubtedly. The point is to bring out that the tribes were taken account of. She is of Asher, her foot dipped in oil. She was able to go around Jerusalem and see the saints which is an important matter from the standpoint of Luke.

F.K.C. "And he said to them, These are the words which I spoke to you while I was yet with you". Is what we are speaking of here linked with what goes before?

J.T. That is good. We are moving on now. "And he said to them, These are the words which I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all that is written concerning me in the law of Moses and prophets and psalms must be fulfilled". He undoubtedly alludes to what He said to the two, "having begun from Moses" (Luke 24:27), but here He adds the Psalms, "all that is written concerning me in the law of Moses and prophets and psalms must be fulfilled. Then he opened their understanding to understand the scriptures, and said to them. Thus it is written, and thus it behoved the Christ to suffer, and to rise from among the dead the third day; and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name to all the nations beginning at Jerusalem". So that He has now reached the full thought of our dispensation of grace. He has reached that, and the Scriptures have a great place in that.

A.E.H. Is there some kind of change indicated? He says, "While I was yet with you". It would look to the ordinary mind as though He was still with them, in the midst, but He speaks of it now as though it was a thing that was finished. It is another character of things now; they are to be with Him.

J.T. Yes, and they are to carry on too, because the operational system is in mind in Luke and these are the persons able to carry on. It involves a real humanity and that was absolute in Christ, but it

also belongs to us and is in the mind of God for us all as over against what is in the world at the present time.

A.R. Is it not an operational system, "repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name to all the nations beginning at Jerusalem"?

J.T. Yes, it is a big matter at hand. The Lord is laying down a basic thing first; that is, the kind of man involved, seen in Christ, and they are coming into it.

A.M. Would you say a word as to the Lord eating? "And they gave him part of a broiled fish and of a honeycomb; and he took it and ate before them".

J.T. Well, He does it here to help them, to show how real His humanity is.

A.N.W. The word is, He ate before them.

J.T. Just so, just for a witness.

R.W.S. Have not the operations of grace been accelerated to meet the activities of Satan causing the degradation of men?

J.T. That is good. You wonder how much we can take part in it. It is really affecting to see how the dear brethren in England have been able to carry on with the testimony of God in spite of all they have been through.

Rem. In John 4 the Lord asked for a drink.

J.T. Yes, you can imagine He would be real in asking for a drink but it worked out for the truth, too.

A.B.P. Would a right apprehension of the hands and feet of Jesus prevent us from standing and gazing? In Acts two men rebuked those who were standing and gazing -- "Why do ye stand looking into heaven?" Acts 1:11. There are things to be done.

J.T. Quite so, it is a time for doing things and they did the right things. Luke says they went to the temple, but in the Acts they went to the upper room. There the work really began.

A.B.P. Would you say the impressions we get at a reading like this would stimulate us to move in the activities of this new life?

J.T. I think we will come to that in the Acts. Here He presents Himself living. He is going to show that beautification feature, the actual, basic thought of humanity. He says, "Have ye anything here to eat? And they gave him part of a broiled fish and of a honeycomb". I suppose it would be mutual; He would not eat all. "And he took it and ate before them. And he said to them, These are the words which I spoke to you while I was yet with you". Then it says He opened their understanding. Now we are coming to another side of our instruction - the idea of understanding. "Then he opened their understanding to understand the scriptures, and said to them, Thus it is written". That is, we have in operation now what is essential to the work of God, that things are to be done according to intelligence.

F.K.C. This intelligence must be there basically in our souls before we can use the Scriptures, and then there is the promise of the Father -- the Holy Spirit.

J.T. I think the Lord had in mind that the thing should be done quickly so that He could go up to heaven. It is essential to the inauguration of the new system of things. He must go up there, and He was urgent as to it. The forty days are not mentioned, but they are to bring out what was necessary on the part of the apostles, that they might contemplate things presented in Christ risen. Luke is to establish the system of grace; it is enlarged in detail in Acts. The Lord hastens to go up to heaven, so as to establish the system down here. They were here and ready to wait, for they must have the Spirit. The Lord's mind is set upon setting up the system of grace which would be effective throughout the whole earth in view of the assembly.

J.St. Would it involve that there should be here for the Holy Spirit to take over, as He came, that which would make the whole dispensation wonderful for Him?

J.T. Quite so. Acts 2 contemplates that they were ready for it. They were all there and were seated. They were not bustling about now but were ready to proceed when the Spirit came.

H.H. Your use of the word 'hasten' reminds me of Isaiah 60:22, "I, Jehovah, will hasten it".

J.T. That is a good word, God is presented as hurrying to meet the prodigal, He ran.

H.G.H. What is the suggestion of remaining in the city until they receive power?

J.T. I think it is to maintain the idea of grace. It is a grace time, and Luke makes much of His going to heaven so that the system should be established properly, so that there should be no confusion in it. Therefore, they are to tarry in the city of Jerusalem until they are imbued with power from on high, which is a beautiful touch -- that Jerusalem is still held to.

C.DeB. "And ye are witnesses of these things. And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you; but do ye remain in the city till ye be clothed with power from on high". Is that peculiar just to them?

J.T. I think it is. It is the inaugural position that is in mind, but we may learn details as to our position, and the levitical principle would say you are to recognise your locality and the brethren. There are things that we may learn from these facts, but these facts are viewed by themselves here. They are not repeated. It is the inauguration of the divine system in Luke.

R.W.S. Would Jerusalem be a great test as to whether grace could operate in such a city as that where they crucified the Lord?

J.T. It is supreme grace that the work should begin there in a place where there was such wickedness. It seems to me that is the idea that we begin with -- grace.

F.S.C. Would leading out here as far as Bethany be like beautifying the temple?

J.T. I think it is rather to beautify the position of grace. Bethany was the love scene, not Jerusalem. The Lord used to go to Bethany, a beautiful thought as to the place of love entering into the divine order of things.

F.K.C. Does this link on with 1 Timothy 3:16? "God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in the Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among the nations, has been believed on in the world, has been received up in glory".

J.T. That is possibly a verse of a hymn. It is a beautiful tribute to the deity of Christ as He was operating in grace.

A.P.T. In Luke 13:34 the Lord said, "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those that are sent unto her". Now grace is expressed in telling them to remain in the city.

J.T. I think it is to finish up this position. The grace system was to be established and it would imply that God is still waiting on Israel in spite of its guilt. Grace operates in spite of things and wonderful things were done too. According to Acts 1 the most successful testimony was there.

A.B. The "ye" in verse 48 and "they" in verse 52 are emphatic. We see there a development of the system to which you have been referring.

J.T. Very good. "And they, having done him homage, returned to Jerusalem with great joy". It is suitable that they should be joying at such a time, and continually in the temple, not for a day but for a long time, showing God is merciful.

A.B.P. Is the initial thought seen in Anna? She departed not from the temple. Now the system is here.

J.T. Quite so.

A.P. Is there a suggestion that what God had in mind as proper to Jerusalem is secured now by virtue of the Lord's work in the disciples?

J.T. Yes, the service of God, but the throne of grace is in mind. Matthew gives the thought of the great King, but the point in Luke is the grace system set up. So it is said, "And he led them out as far as Bethany, and having lifted up his hands, he blessed them. And it came to pass as he was blessing them, he was separated from them and was carried up into heaven. And they, having done him homage, returned to Jerusalem with great joy, and were continually in the temple praising and blessing God". It is really a priestly system and the service of God carried on in it.

R.A. Does Bethany suggest what we had in our first reading, "If ye love me, keep my commandments"?

J.T. Just so, but it is very fine to see they are there. Grace was there and began there and God is showing how grace is abounding. It is a grace system set up, grace reigning through righteousness unto eternal life.

J.T.Jr. Do you think the separation involves heaven's movement in it: "he was separated from them"?

J.T. Of course, Paul's ministry would come in here to fill out the whole matter. We have often noted that the tabernacle was set up and everything in it was functioning. That is the idea here. The Lord is gone up to heaven and He has left them here and they know what to do. They are joined and wholly expressive of what is inaugurated.

THE ASSEMBLY AS SEEN IN THE CLOSE OF THE GOSPELS (5)

Acts 1:1 - 26

J.T. What was intimated at the outset was that Luke has a system of grace in mind with which the assembly is identified, and this chapter bears out the thought. The Lord is again seen here upon earth before His ascension so as to keep in mind manhood in Him, and so it is seen in its beautification of life, not simply in the basic thoughts of it which are most important. What an opportunity is given for examination of humanity according to God, to be used systematically in view of the testimony of God in a world-wide sense! Now we have Luke's point of view, but still with Jesus on earth, but risen and seen in life, presented indeed in life. So that our thoughts are, as it were, lifted to the beauty of life in Christ and that in operation, for operation is in mind in the system, not exactly what we shall have in eternity, but what is here in the Spirit; although we do not propose to look into the thought of the Spirit in the second chapter, but only to pursue the idea of humanity in the Lord as seen finally in this chapter. It was in mind to call attention, at the outset, to how early the thought of the Lord's ascension is seen in the gospel of Luke. The time of His receiving up is mentioned in chapter 9 confirming that there was haste, as it were, in reaching the position in heaven, the position contemplated. Peter later says in Acts 3:21, "Whom heaven indeed must receive". He is there, received, but carries on in view of the assembly, not in view of the prophetic feature of the testimony, but of the assembly; not in view of the millennium, but the assembly, and so there is the completion of the twelve, the administrative side of the position in the twelve apostles.

A.E.H. How do you reconcile the waiting forty or fifty days until the Spirit came with the idea of haste?

J.T. The idea of haste is not stressed in the Acts, but rather, levitical principles are seen more in the Acts and carried out in the apostles and even in the Lord Himself. The book of Acts is intended to convey for the whole dispensation the principles by which service or administration is to be governed. I was thinking that we have to make allowance for time in the book of Acts so that things should be properly done, and we also have much said of geographic position as well as time.

A.E.H. The chapter starts with the eleven, but soon we have others added reaching one hundred and twenty. The system is expanded and time brings it to ourselves.

J.T. Quite so, and also the idea of life is pursued in the chapter, for the idea of names alludes to life. There is the distinction that life gives, involving names. All that is in keeping with this preliminary chapter.

A.B. What have you in mind in setting the prophetic side against the assembly?

J.T. Peter says in Acts, "Whom heaven indeed must receive till the times of the restoring of all things, of which God has spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets since time began" Acts 3:21. The allusion to the prophets "since time began" is a remarkable statement; that order of things is held in abeyance to make way for the assembly. What the prophets have to say is held in abeyance; it has not the first place.

M.O. Is that what the Lord has in mind in John 17, "I sanctify myself". Is that His service in relation to the assembly period?

J.T. Yes, that chapter relates to the assembly period. We can name it, because we know enough

of the assembly to do so, but this matter of "since time began" is literally 'holy since-time-began prophets'; they belong to time whereas the assembly takes precedence now, and the Lord is received in heaven in view of that. The prophetic period is held in abeyance, but is of great importance, and the Lord is actually waiting on high until the time for that, as Psalm 110:1 says. The book of Acts and particularly Paul will tell us what is occupying Him now.

A.E.H. In the verse following your reference to the prophets, Moses is spoken of and the prophetic ministry in that dispensation. "Whatsoever soul shall not hear that prophet shall be destroyed from among the people" Acts 3:23. That is in abeyance for the operations of this system of grace.

J.T. Yes, it is. Peter was setting out the faith period so he says in chapter 3:16, "And, by faith in his name, his name has made this man strong whom ye behold and know; and the faith which is by him has given him this complete soundness in the presence of you all" Acts 3:16. Faith is greatly stressed there, in that which Peter is now engaged with, the present period, what we have ventured to call a sort of nondescript period or dispensation awaiting the time of which the prophets spoke since time began. The Lord will take all that up presently, but in the meantime He is going on with the assembly.

A.B. Is that the import of Acts 1:7, in regard to the times and seasons?

J.T. That is the idea; that is put off. They were preoccupied with their own matters, whether the kingdom would be restored to Israel. The Lord says that is the Father's matter. Your position is to wait for the Spirit and I will carry on certain things in which you are being engaged. The gospel was to be preached when the Holy Spirit was sent from heaven.

A.R. Prophecy in relation to the future is connected with time, whereas there is no time limit to the feast of weeks which foreshadows Christianity.

J.T. Yes, it refers to Christianity. The first of Acts refers to what is brought out of our houses (Leviticus 23:17).

R.W.S. In regard to the beautification of life which you spoke of, is the assembly period to be filled out by the living movements of the Lord Jesus, His coming in and going out?

J.T. I think so. How attractive He is in life! He is attractive in all settings, but notice that He presents Himself as if He would be known in a certain way, which I think is very suggestive. The book begins, "I composed the first discourse, O Theophilus, concerning all things which Jesus began both to do and to teach, until that day in which, having by the Holy Spirit charged the apostles whom he had chosen, he was taken up; to whom also he presented himself living, after he had suffered, with many proofs; being seen by them during forty days, and speaking of the things which concern the kingdom of God". We can understand that there would not be the same haste here as in Luke 24. In Luke 24 there is the idea of reaching the administrative period so that the gospel should go out without delay, according to God, from Jerusalem. The geographic position is stressed. Now we are dealing with how Christ is presented to us, beautiful and attractive in life, so that the dispensation might be set out accordingly, the Spirit coming in after this, but the beautiful thoughts of life developed in the Lord Jesus must belong peculiarly to this dispensation.

C.R. It was so attractive to Luke that he presents Him to Theophilus at this time. In Luke 1 he is addressed as "most excellent Theophilus".

J.T. All that is meant is that Theophilus is a more spiritual man now. Luke did not have to use terms of courtesy and respect for he is ready to learn that greater things attached to the Lord Jesus in life.

H.G.H. What is the difference between receiving the Holy Spirit and being baptised with the Holy Spirit as referred to in verse 5 of our chapter?

J.T. Well, the reception is spoken of in John 20. He breathed into them, but reception, I suppose, is a right word. Paul says, "Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye had believed?" (Acts 19:2) It was a gift, spoken of in Luke. "How much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke 11:13. That is the ground of the reception of the Holy Spirit, but the baptism is an external matter. It is taken up from the idea of baptism, which is immersion. John the baptist says that it was said to him, "Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit. And I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God" (John 1:33,34). It would connect with the cup of the Lord's supper. We have all been made to drink into one Spirit, for in the power of the one Spirit, we are all baptised into one body. The baptism of the Holy Spirit brings in the body.

A.E.H. The note to the word 'with' in Matthew 3:11 gives the meaning as 'in the power of; be it external or simply the nature and character of, but always including the latter'; it is the nature and character of the thing as well as the outward public exhibition of it.

J.T. I think that is helpful. The baptism of the Spirit would be the idea of immersion, that is, that it covers us. It is a question of power but includes the formation of the body. "So also is the Christ" (1 Corinthians 12:12). "The Christ" is the public idea involving the body.

H.G.H. Does the thought of baptism suggest that the Holy Spirit takes control?

J.T. I think so. John contrasts the Lord with himself. It is well understood that John baptised with water, but the Lord Jesus would baptise with the Holy Spirit. It was well understood that the idea of baptism meant immersion, whether by water or by the Spirit. The idea is carried forward in the epistle of Corinthians, "so also is the Christ" (1 Corinthians 12:12). It is the public position of the assembly, as in baptism. In the power of one Spirit we are all baptised into one body.

M.O. Would it link on with Acts 1:8, the idea of witnesses in the public side of the testimony?

J.T. Well, it does. That is what the Lord is stressing among the disciples. He says, "But ye will receive power, the Holy Spirit having come upon you, and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth". That is the position. Instead of the kingdom being restored to Israel, what is set over against that is the position of the Spirit, and the disciples had to come to that, to make way for that. That would be the great dominating thing in Christianity -- the presence of the Spirit.

A.B.P. It says, "And there came suddenly a sound out of heaven ass of a violent impetuous blowing, and filled all the house where they were sitting", (Acts 2:2). They were engulfed in the thing.

J.T. Just so. It was the Spirit, really God, taking charge of things in chapter 2.

A.N.W. In connection with Cornelius and his household it is a lavish idea, poured out upon the nations. The gift of the Spirit was poured out.

J.T. I suppose the thought would be to stress the lavishness of the gift of the Spirit and how full is the provision made in Him for Christianity. We have, of

course, something like it in the millennial day according to the second chapter, but it is not just what we have in Christianity. We have the outward thing in the Spirit poured out and given in that sense, but the inward too as in John 20.

T.E.H. Do you link the suggestion in Ezekiel? "And he said unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Come from the four winds" Ezekiel 37:9.

J.T. Well, it is a question of prophesying which is hardly the thought in the incoming of the Spirit, which is an inward matter. Speaking reverently, I believe the inwards of God are involved in the breathing, impetuous blowing or breathing. That is the idea and it refers to Christianity. Of course, at Pentecost it is the public side, "sat upon each one of them" (Acts 2:3) and the house was filled, but it was Christianity. God is saying that He is coming in in His own way, and with adequate means of setting up and maintaining Christianity, involving the assembly.

A.E.M. Is there some significance in that, after the reference in Acts 1:5, to the baptism of the Holy Spirit; we read, "After now not many days. They therefore, being come together". Is that the response in the disciples coming into evidence, the organism taking shape?

J.T. Would you not link it with what we had already in Luke 24? We do not get it in John 20:19, for there it is said, "where the disciples were"; but in Luke 24:33 when the two come back from Emmaus, it is said, "They found the eleven, and those with them, gathered together". John does not say that, but, "where the disciples were". "Being come together" makes way for the public administrative assembly, because the eleven were there, meaning the twelve would be there in principle. That is what is meant, and so the idea of together is of note in

this chapter, and in the next; in fact, in the whole book the idea of "together" is notable.

F.N.W. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 12:13, "For also in the power of one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body". Would you help us as to how we come into this baptism with the Holy Spirit?

J.T. Well, it is one thing, a great general thought. Of course, we come into it individually. I do not know that I would consider myself as baptised by myself, not that I would say much about that, but I think it is a great general thought, one idea as marking the dispensation.

C.A.M. Would you say a further word about this matter of being gathered together. The fact that we sit down at a certain time, that we are all here, would in itself, I suppose, involve the idea that some mystical thing takes place that causes us to be assembled. I mean that the mere physical fact that we are all together at a certain time does not mean we are assembled in this way.

J.T. No, but it is implied in chapter 2, "And when the day of Pentecost was now accomplishing, they were all together in one place" Acts 2:1. That is governing thought that runs through the dispensation, I would say. In the end of the second chapter all who believed were together, meaning that they were together in heart, wherever they were, which is important. To be gathered together suggests the assembly in its functioning capacity and so Matthew says, "For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them" Matthew 18:20, which is another side of the position; where the Lord is when we are gathered together. I think what you mean is that there is a sort of unseen power that acts upon us to gather us and where that is the Lord says, "There am I in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20). But we see here at the outset of Christianity that first the apostles were together. They were all together when

the Spirit came, but afterward there is the preaching and the gathering of three thousand. It says that all that believed were together, meaning that wherever we are we should be in spirit together. We should never lose the sense of being all of one company.

J.T.Jr. Do you think the apostle in writing to the Hebrews would have this sort of thing in mind, partaking of the Holy Spirit, and tasting of the heavenly gift and the powers of the world to come? He is alluding to this very thing, what is going on among us at the present time.

J.T. Quite so. It might be that persons externally with us, who might fall away, are contemplated; they might even be partakers of the heavenly gift, and fall away, but still the allusion is to this very thing, when together.

A.N.W. "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together" (Hebrews 10:25).

A.B. In Genesis 49 Jacob says, "Gather yourselves" but then he says, "Assemble yourselves". Jacob rightly in his place says, "Assemble yourselves" in view of their hearing -- to listen to Israel their father.

J.T. That is a very orderly and prophetic position, which really runs into what we are saying. I am glad that matter of together came up, but there are certain things we should notice in the first paragraph that enter into the special word that the Lord was there forty days. "I composed the first discourse, O Theophilus, concerning all things which Jesus began both to do and to teach, until that day in which, having by the Holy Spirit charged the apostles whom he had chosen, he was taken up". I thought we might pay attention to the idea of being charged, how the Spirit is brought in here in a peculiar, definite way, that as risen the Lord acts by the Spirit. It is an element of the dispensation, that things are done by the Spirit and the charge is by

the Spirit and the persons charged are the chosen ones; that is, we are on elevated ground, as it were, the full platform on which Christianity is set. The Lord charged by the Spirit the apostles whom He had chosen.

A.B.P. Does that link on with John 20:21, "As the Father sent me forth, I also send you"?

J.T. Yes, the charge involves certain solemn responsibilities placed on them. In verse 6 they dropped to a lower level in talking about the kingdom of Israel. It seems as if the Lord would tell us that Christianity began with great dignity. All that we have said about humanity in Christ is involved in this, but in this chapter we are in the presence of dignity, and rich beautification, and choice of persons, and the authority of the persons; the apostles whom He had chosen and then the presentation of Himself living after He had suffered. All these thoughts are most beautiful, I think, and present the dignity of the dispensation even before the Spirit came, showing the vessel is great enough to receive the Spirit and retain Him, as it were.

H.B. Would it be right to bring in the thought of Aaron's rod that budded and blossomed? It was to be a testimony before the people night and day.

J.T. It would. There was a great result after the uprising of Korah's company. All that was the outcome of Korah's rebellion. What an order of things God set up in the power of life, for that is what is meant.

T.S. Does this matter of beautification that you referred to earlier go with 2 Chronicles in connection with Solomon's regime?

J.T. Quite so. You mean what the Queen of Sheba saw.

D.P. I want to ask if the presentation of Himself living would be to set out the idea of victory over death.

J.T. Well, it would be. I think the word 'beautification' is good. The beauty is involved in life as seen in Christ. It is man in Christ, but in view of the dispensation in which we are. It is all presented here as inaugural, carrying beautification, carrying what is necessary to accentuate the greatness and beauty of the moment and what is going to result from it; that is, the great thought of the assembly is coming into it.

A.E.H. Peter says in chapter 3 verse 16, "By faith in his name, his name has made this man strong whom ye behold and know: and the faith which is by him has given him this complete soundness in the presence of you all" Acts 3:16. Would you connect that with Ephesians 4, the full-grown man that we are to arrive at?

J.T. Well, quite so. The full-grown man is undoubtedly a full-grown person, and the idea is set out in Peter and John. It is the Peter and John chapter. This man in Acts 3 is added to give fulness to the position, the result of faith operating, so that Peter says, "Look on us". It is a question of what is to be seen there.

A.R. The carved half-open flowers in the temple would represent that? Half-open flowers suggest life.

J.T. Very good. It is a beautiful thought meaning that they are fresh, opening up, not stale or fading fruit, but fresh and beautiful. The temple was marked by that.

A.MacD. Do we see some of this beautiful fruit in the Song of Solomon which we feel the Lord is opening up to us in these last days in a beautiful way?

J.T. It sets out the assembly, how it operates in the Lord's supper. God is only mentioned in the song under the name of Jah, which is an abstract thought, and hardly the feature of the book. It is a

question of Christ in the assembly as introducing the service of God.

A.B.P. When Lazarus came forth from the grave, bound feet and hands and the napkin over his face, the loosing of Lazarus and the movements that would result in life would be similar to what we have in this chapter.

J.T. Quite so, the point is to show what was there, the living condition that was there; he became a testimony to those who came to see him.

J.T.Jr. Peter refers to the Lord as the Originator of life. Would that be the idea of life set out in persons? The Lord set it out Himself and then others.

J.T. That is good. It seems as if we should now proceed to examine the chapter. We have reached verse 10. It says, "And as they were gazing into heaven, as he was going, behold, also two men stood by them in white clothing, who also said. Men of Galilee, why do ye stand looking into heaven? This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven, shall thus come in the manner in which ye have beheld him going into heaven. Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called the mount of Olives, which is near Jerusalem, a sabbath day's journey off. And when they were come into the city, they went up to the upper chamber, where were staying both Peter, and John, and James, and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus and Simon the zealot, and Jude the brother of James. These gave themselves all with one accord to continual prayer, with several women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren". What is to be noted is, that after the earlier remarks, we are shown the whole number of the apostles and their companions, we may say, in an upper room, as if the Spirit would show us the basis of Christianity in the upper room;

that is, what is there and what is to become enlarged in the sense of authority, and then in the sense of personal acquirements in the knowledge of Jesus and the brethren; as if we are to understand what we have come into in Christianity, what was set there by the Lord to inaugurate and conserve what was in His mind, to preserve it in an out-of-the-world state of things. There is no religious building or anything such as that would enhance us externally, but what was there was enough to preserve what is of God and promote it and keep it going.

A.P.T. These two men seem to be cognisant of the Lord's movements. They know something about Him.

J.T. It seems as if it is in keeping with what we have remarked on the idea of man, not angels, in this setting; then in keeping with that, the position which marked the company, "in those days Peter, standing up in the midst of the brethren, said (the crowd of names who were together was about a hundred and twenty)". The idea of names would refer to life which was there, and which gave distinction to them, and then there is Peter's position as giving a lead indicating what should be done, which is a matter of great importance in a crisis, to know what to do and to do it in a dignified way. The names point to dignity or distinction among the brethren. What are we unless there is some spiritual distinction attached to us, not simply so many persons, but persons with distinction?

C.A.M. Would you regard the upper room as a moral idea?

J.T. Just so, because it is a conservatory of all the Lord Jesus had done. It says He "began both to do and to teach", and then the company of persons, not simply official persons, but the persons generally are distinctive in their names. That is, we ought to know one another. "Greet the friends by name" (3 John 14).

We ought to know one another even in these general meetings. We appreciate one another by our names. Affection runs in that current.

C.A.M. Regarding the upper room, Jerusalem too, is a moral idea as I understand, but it is a city with boundaries at the same time.

J.T. We have measurements taken from it to Emmaus.

C.A.M. As to practical matters in our localities, do the dwellings of the saints stand relative to some boundary line, and is the boundary line in regard to a city, rather than to the upper room idea? It becomes a practical matter because you measure the distance from your home to the meeting room.

J.T. I think Jerusalem would be measured from the temple. It would be the centre of gathering, where the people were. The walls in themselves are nothing. It is where the people are, where the disciples were.

J.K.P. Is that borne out in verse 8? The matter of witnessing comes in there, "in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth". Would that be the idea?

J.T. I think so, that is where the people were. When Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to see about matters, they were received by the apostles. It is a question of people; there would be something in the walls of the city of course, from a military or political point of view; but as regards the fellowship and the enjoyment of things, and the light, we must have the people. The Lord comes to where the disciples were.

A.P. Would these persons carry forward characteristically the manhood features of Christ?

J.T. Just so. Every name there would be some reflection of Christ, as for instance. Peter, his name Cephas would suggest something of the assembly.

A.B. Would verse 14 bear on that, "These gave themselves all with one accord". There were no reserves. All the principles of life were there in beautiful character.

J.T. Yes, in dependence on God and leadership. "These gave themselves all with one accord to continual prayer, with several women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren". I think the feminine side is usually a modifying feature. There is no evidence that there were any women at the Lord's supper when it was instituted. The apostles were there, but here we have the women, the feminine side, and it would look as if the divine intent was that the assembly should be composed of women as well as men. There is a modifying influence by the feminine side which runs through Scripture.

T.E.H. In the matter of the cities they were to measure to the nearest city in connection with the slain man in Deuteronomy 21.

J.T. But what would you do without a people? When Boaz had something in mind, he called for the people. The matter necessitated the people.

J.K.P. You were speaking of the matter of distinction. Does that thought go beyond the upper room idea, carrying into the sphere of public testimony?

J.T. That is right, because we have not the idea of the upper room there so much, of course, but what we read is, "And in those days Peter, standing up in the midst of the brethren, said, (the crowd of names who were together was about a hundred and twenty)". I would think the crowd of names would imply what was public, and worth looking at. Of course, they were inside. No doubt the meeting was there, but still there is the idea that it would be a public testimony, the distinction that marks the brethren: for instance, no one with any sensibilities

coming into this hall would fail to see that there is distinction marking the persons of a kind that is not seen in any ordinary people of the world.

J.B. Would you have the same thing in chapter 13 at Antioch where you have those together and the names mentioned?

J.T. Yes, it is not a crowd there, but certain names known by their distinction. The last one is Saul. The point was they were ministering to the Lord and fasting. They carried the idea of the dispensation strikingly in Antioch, from the Jewish position to the nations in Antioch. The service of God was transferred among the nations. That is what marked that situation. The service of God was carried out among the nations in these distinguished persons.

J.B. What was set up at the beginning is carried through in that way, is it not?

J.T. Well, it is, and what was at Antioch was equal to what had been at Jerusalem. The scattering had already taken place but the thought was carried on by Barnabas and Saul particularly, because they had ministered in Antioch for a whole year, showing that dignity was maintained outside of Palestine.

D.P. The distinctive features that marked the disciples here would be a distinct advance on what had preceded.

J.T. It is a question of intelligence here really; the handiwork of the Lord Jesus personally is seen there in the upper room, and the word 'names' implies that each had a distinction, some ray of glory in each of them, I believe, in the sense of life. Not that the Spirit had come, but the idea of life in the Spirit. The work of Christ had that character.

F.K.C. I think you have said that the hundred and twenty represent what is greater in quality than the three thousand. Did you have that in mind?

J.T. I think so, because it was the handiwork of the Lord personally, which is a very precious thing, what the Lord Himself did before the Spirit came.

A.R. It would affect the whole earth, would it not? It speaks later in the Acts of turning the world upside down.

J.T. Just so, the handiwork of the Lord there is seen in one and another. How much each could tell them, and his brethren, how much they, who were there before the Spirit came in, could tell the disciples about the Lord Jesus.

M.O. Would not Peter's skill in taking up this matter of Judas suggest the Lord's handiwork too?

J.T. Well, that is another thing, not so attractive as what we are speaking of now, but it is remarkable that Judas is brought in here. We have awful conditions of humanity in the world at the present time, degraded, murderous humanity, and life made so cheap. It is the same with Judas, a remarkable product. There was nothing at all commendable about him and now we have the terrible kind of thing that happened to him. Peter says, "Brethren, it was necessary that the scripture should have been fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before, by the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who became guide to those who took Jesus; for he was numbered amongst us, and had received a part in this service. (This man then indeed got a field with the reward of iniquity, and, having fallen down headlong, burst in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. And it was known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that that field was called in their own dialect Aceldama; that is, field of blood.)" It seems to me it is a terrible thought brought in by the Spirit here in the introduction of Christianity. That kind of thing had to be contended with, and the names are over against that. It is over against what God has and the fruit of Christ's own handiwork, the kind of

humanity He brought in and which alone stands the test at the present time.

A.E.H. Is there a warning in it in regard to association with what is religious? He was guide to those who took Jesus.

J.T. Well, it shows what is possible within the scope of the assembly publicly. How incorrigible the flesh is under the most favourable influences. While the Lord Jesus came in and went out among them, Judas was there.

A.B.P. Is it not delightful to heaven now that there should be a vessel here concerned about the fulfilment of Scripture? The Lord opened their understanding, but there was care in their hearts, that it would be fulfilled.

J.T. Peter makes that point in his address. What the world is full of now, accentuates the need for maintaining the kind of humanity that is set out in Christ, and the apostles too. They were capable of being developed in the highest order of humanity. It brings up the necessity of distinction which belongs to Christians, those who have the Spirit, the distinction that belongs to Christians and the assembly too.

R-. Would that distinction be seen in what the apostle says in Colossians, "Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved" Colossians 3:12?

J.T. Quite so, so that Peter's address takes up the question of the Scriptures and leadership, and then the exposure of the thing that brought in all the sorrow; that is, Judas. Then the Spirit turns to the idea of the person needed to make the apostleship complete. "And they appointed two, Joseph, who was called Barsabas, who had been surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed, and said, Thou Lord, knower of the hearts of all, shew which one of these two thou hast chosen". It is a question of choice. At the beginning of the chapter it says,

"The apostles whom he had chosen" and it is a question of choice now. "To receive the lot of this service and apostleship, from which Judas transgressing fell to go to his own place". That reminds us of antichrist really. He is going to his own place. "And they gave lots on them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles". That is, the apostleship is complete, which points to the new order of things and involves administration.

C.R. Probably Peter remembered the night the Lord spent in prayer over his selection.

J.T. You can see here what the tutorship of Christ really meant and how essential ministry is to us, because of the need of instruction among the brethren, each one taking up the need of being instructed.

A.E.M. Is the lot falling on Matthias wholly a sovereign matter, or is there some distinction between the man who has three names and the man who has one? I was wondering if the Spirit, with the greater knowledge that pertains to Him, might indicate some refined distinction with the man whose name indicates more simple life and ways, with only one name. The Spirit would have more liberty where there is greater simplicity; perhaps there are more complications with a man who has so many names -- relatives and business interests.

J.T. Especially if he changed his name for business or social reasons or had a hyphenated name.

H.H. Verse 20 uses the word 'overseership' and verse 25 'apostleship'. Would the thought of overseership reach down to the present time, such as spoken of in 1 Timothy 3?

J.T. Well, of course, Peter was an elder, that is, an overseer, I suppose, but then apostleship is really the issue here; that is, authority, and the lot fell on Matthias

A,P.T. They say, "Thou Lord, knower of the hearts of all". There may be something in this as a heart matter.

J.T. It is a sovereign matter too. It is a sovereign matter to name the apostles. The Lord named them and took great care; He spent the night in prayer before He named them. Here the idea of sovereignty must enter into it. Sovereignty implies that we are not now dealing with novices or beginners, but we are dealing with a great person called an apostle. We are thinking of him not simply as having an official name but his actual state must be known. Not only is God sovereign in making the selection, but it is necessary that his state be known. Judas' state in the wisdom of God was never really known by the apostles. They never seem to have known him, but we should know one another and especially those in a position of trust or responsibility.

H.H. Psalm 109:8 says, "Let his days be few, let another take his office". After all, Judas was only with the Lord a few years.

A.P.T. This matter of service among the brethren, involving a responsible matter such as an address or any service among the Lord's people, necessitates that those who have it in their hand should be acquainted with the moral state, as well as the ability, in the one selected.

J.T. Quite so. It is very important, and to take the best advice you can get. Timothy had a good name, a good report among the brethren; and when it is a matter of a large number, it is all the more important that any person who is to be entrusted with a service should be reliable, not simply the brother who can speak well, but who is reliable as to the truth. That is the principle that is to be set out.

J.K.P. Is that the reason for service preceding apostleship? It says, "Shew which one of these two thou hast chosen, to receive the lot of this service and apostleship".

J.T. So that the word is earlier, "The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole decision is of Jehovah", (Proverbs 16:33). They follow that here. Matthias had been there during all the time in which the Lord Jesus had come in and gone out. Justus was too, but Matthias was selected, meaning God knew better than the brethren. Of course, we have to trust one another and it is certainly important to get reliability in ministry, not simply those who can say things o give addresses, but those who are reliable in what they say.

THE THRONE OF GRACE (1)

Luke 4:16 - 22

J.T. The throne of grace is in mind as a suggestion to start with and it is hoped it will be carried through as to its meaning. The throne of grace has been suggested and chapter 7 is thought of after chapter 4 and then several chapters running on to the last chapter in the book where we have the fullest thought of our subject.

It is in mind now that we should consider the Lord from the standpoint of grace and how the idea is presented in Himself. The idea of the throne is taken up to stress the thought, and show how it should be dominant and carry authority. The gospel is to be enforced and in authority, and this directs our minds immediately to the Lord and how things are presented and spoken of by Him. We have to learn from the Lord in everything.

S.P. Is Luke outstanding in his presentation of this feature?

J.T. I think so, although the phrase is not found here but in Hebrews, "Let us approach therefore with boldness to the throne of grace", Hebrews 4:16. We are to come boldly to it according to Hebrews and then according to Romans "... so also grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life", Romans 5:21. It is as if the end in mind carries the thought of grace reigning through righteousness unto eternal life. All these thoughts, we can readily see, point to the Lord. It is a question of what marked Him, whether it be the throne of grace or other features.

J.W.D. When we speak of the throne of grace are we to bear in mind what you say, it is the Lord Himself?

J.T. That is, the throne of grace is static - we come to it, come boldly to it. The active side is in

us. The active side is in Christ in this passage, and so with all the activities in the gospel. The static side of the throne is there, but it is a question of the activity being in us, our need producing it. The activity in the gospel is peculiarly aggressive, but the throne is there always accessible.

C.T. The outcome of the activity of Christ in this chapter is that all eyes are being fixed upon Him.

J.T. Just so, but it is the effect of what He said and what He was and how it impressed the hearers. It is not a question of a static condition in Him; it is active. Because it is said, "And he came to Nazareth, where he was brought up; and he entered, according to his custom, into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up to read". That is. He is doing it. And not simply what He is doing, but How He is doing it.

L.E.S. Would the bringing forward of Isaiah suggest the embodiment in Christ personally of the grace found in this section?

J.T. I would think so. Luke represents the whole idea. He was taken up by God to do it according to his own words. "Forasmuch as many have undertaken to draw up a relation concerning the matters fully believed among us, as those who from the beginning were eye-witnesses of and attendants on the Word have delivered them to us, it has seemed good to me also, accurately acquainted from the origin with all things, to write to thee with method, most excellent Theophilus, that thou mightest know the certainty of those things in which thou hast been instructed", Luke 1:1 - 4. Attention is called to eye-witnesses of and attendants on the Word. So that the thought in the Word is clearly presented in this section. Just what He was in activity.

J.W.D. Then action is the prime feature in the system.

J.T. The Lord is presented here active, but in Hebrews 4 He is presented as the great High Priest and we come to Him; we come to the throne of grace with boldness. We should be able to get at what Luke has in mind. It is the attack on Satan's domain and how the Vessel of the attack is skilled, the skill that marks Him. He overcomes the enemy because Luke presents Him as overcoming. We are told, "But Jesus, full of [the] Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness" Luke 4:1, not 'into' but 'in'. It is a scene of contrariety and the devil is overthrown. "And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee", Luke 4:14. That is after the devil had completed every temptation. "And the devil, having completed every temptation, departed from him for a time" Luke 4:13. He is silenced and the Lord is thus free to go and carry on His service.

H.B. "Where sin abounded grace has overabounded", (Romans 5:20).

J.T. That is the point -- overabounded. Sin is there but grace has overabounded.

S.P. Luke begins immediately to introduce the thought of the throne. We have the throne of Herod in the first chapter -- the Lord as over against that would exercise His influence, that men may know the meaning of grace.

J.T. The idea of the throne is there, which is important, but for the moment it is a question of the Person.

J.G.V. Grace is mentioned very early, "And the child grew and waxed strong [in spirit], filled with wisdom, and God's grace was upon him", (Luke 2:40).

J.T. Even at that early age!

H.B. Why is this enacted in Nazareth where He was brought up?

J.T. It is to bring out the importance of the local cities where God is pleased to set up His testimony. The Lord was brought up in Nazareth, which is in keeping with what has just been remarked, that God's grace was upon Him even as a Boy at the age of twelve. He grew up in His place, we are told in the prophets, a very important thing implying that each is to be in his place in the locality, not going away.

C.T. The whole verse is local -- "... and he entered according to his custom".

J.T. Yes, to bring out what already marked Him. He is no novice; of course, you could not think of such a thing about the Lord, but very often young brothers are novices, they have no custom at all; they seem to think that anything will suit, but that is not according to the Lord's method.

J.W.D. Timothy had a good testimony in his locality.

J.T. Quite so. The apostle noted that and he took him and circumcised him to relieve him of any unnecessary hindrances.

S.P. Here it is not merely the custom of the place, but His custom, which would mark Him wherever He served.

J.T. Well, it is His custom. Paul had a custom. He says to the Corinthians, "But if any one think to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor the assemblies of God", 1 Corinthians 11:16. We all know how customs have grown up. There are customs wherever you go. If you go on the continent of Europe you will find certain features there which would be customs. And so in Great Britain, in Ireland or in America here. The local position develops custom. But the Lord stands over against all that; it is His custom. He has the pre-eminence - we have to learn everything from Christ. We have even

to learn how to pray from Him. Teach us to pray, one says in this gospel.

A.B.M. Speaking of the throne, have you in mind the authoritative side is represented in the throne but in the activity of it, it is grace?

J.T. Yes, at the beginning it is not much stressed, it is more the Person of the Lord as the Vessel of grace. But it will come out in time as we proceed There was the authoritative side.

C.C.T. Would 'standing up' bring out the thought of authority?

J.T. It is more what is suitable when one is ministering the word of God, that one should read it standing, "... and stood up to read".

J.W.D. You were saying that different countries have different customs, but these would all be subservient to the Lord's custom.

H.B. In Psalm 45 the Vessel of grace is spoken of as the One who is "... fairer than the sons of men; grace is poured into thy lips", Psalm 45:2.

J.T. The Psalms yield much in that section, dwelling on the Messiah. But Luke is properly the gentile in relation to its customs, they are not Jewish customs, they might be coloured by heathen, or Romish customs, or by Babylonish customs. We are to know how to unload whatever attaches to us in these matters and begin with Christ.

L.E.S. Would the thought of custom be adjusted by the current features of the testimony?

J.T. Just so. See what the Lord did Himself and how He asserted Himself in the temple. "Did ye not know that I ought to be occupied in my Father's business?" (Luke 2:49). Did ye not know? He says to His mother, inclusive of His father, He meant to convey the same thought to both parents. "Did ye not know that I ought to be occupied in my Father's business?" (Luke 2:49). I must be. We begin there. But He goes to Nazareth and is subject to them, so

that He is true, for the idea of subjection to parents is not hindering Him in the service He is carrying on.

C.C.T. Do you think the thought of custom is in 1 John 1:1? John speaks of what they had seen and handled of the word of life.

J.T. Well, it was what they saw in the Lord. It is all a question of life and, of course, that idea enters into what we are speaking of now. We are not exactly speaking of life, but of grace. But it is a question of what is living. Even with grace it is a question of what is living.

J.W.D. Would you say that when the Lord says, "I ought to be occupied in my Father's business? (Luke 2:49)". that that was His custom?

J.T. Well, it is rather the Person there because He asserts His conscious sonship, showing how early the relation of Son entered into the Lord's mind and how consequently it must have entered into the lines of His service, His way of doing things. The family thought is dominant in everything, and it is much better to be characterised by the family idea than the priestly, because priestliness is something acquired for a certain need, but the family means that you are a son all the time. Therefore John's gospel is the great gospel in a general sense. It precedes all the others, it is the family idea. The Lord begins with that thought in Luke, "Did ye not know that I ought to be occupied in my Father's business? (Luke 2:49)".

A.H. At Philippi the apostle Paul joins himself to those of whom it is said, "And on the sabbath day we went outside the gate by the river, where it was the custom for prayer to be, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had assembled", (Acts 16:13). Do you get the thought of the throne of grace there?

J.T. Quite so. That is good. Especially as linking it with the thought of Lydia, what she was; and how the apostle calls attention to the women who

laboured with him. All these thoughts enter into what we are saying, because we are dealing with Paul really. If we want to work out what grace was here according to Luke we must follow on to Paul because Luke follows Paul in the second treatise. We have him at the end in his hired house. It is the thing to note.

A.E.J. As they listened to what Jesus said, "all bore witness to him, and wondered at the words of grace which were coming out of his mouth". Would all this connect with what Paul wrote to Titus about the grace of God that carries with it salvation having appeared? It appeared in the Lord Himself as He taught in the synagogue, and spoke these gracious words. "Grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ", (John 1:17).

J.T. Quite so. Subsists, all is in the Person of Christ. Luke has in mind that the whole testimony from Adam onwards is laid out and worked out in the gospel, that grace might be effective in our souls, not simply in our minds, but in our souls . It is remarkable how Luke links on with the record in Chronicles. The first word in Chronicles is Adam, and Luke embraces men from Adam onward. The Spirit of God by him confirms each individual taught of God through the gospel. All is carried down by Luke, finishing in the Acts with Paul in his own hired house in Rome preaching the kingdom of God. So that the gospel is carried down into the gentile world in Paul and the whole testimony of God is involved. That is the idea we are to get into our souls that God is with us in this matter.

S.P. In Acts 3 you see how a customary "hour of prayer" was turned into an occasion of grace to the lame man reaching the soul of the person. It shows the availability of grace.

J.T. That is very good. Luke presents the thing in persons. The propagation of the truth universally

is seen in the second treatise. There is no mention of the term 'excellent' in speaking to Theophilus in the second treatise, because he is speaking to a believer from among the gentiles who has been brought into the current of grace in Christianity.

L.E.S. In Chronicles the first family named is that of Japheth. Would not that link with Luke?

J.T. It refers to the spreading abroad of that family into the Western world, and that is what is indicated in Luke's second treatise, that we are to go to the West. That is another thing -- the matter of geography. The Spirit of God recognises geography and uses Luke and Paul; so we have to learn there are limitations in our calculations, and to eliminate certain parts of the world spiritually. The gospel of God is designed to proceed towards the West.

Rem. We have the Spirit of God anointing Christ for His service; that is, the service of grace, and the power exercised was to bring in grace.

J.T. That is how the matter stands. It is said, "But Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness forty days, tempted of the devil" (Luke 4:1,2). And then we are told in Acts 10:38, "Jesus .. . how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power; who went through all quarters doing good, and healing all that were under the power of the devil, because God was with him". In chapter 4, Luke speaks of that. He says, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach glad tidings to the poor". In Luke it is the peculiar thought of grace. Grace itself reigns. The thing is personified. It is, of course, the Person that is in mind, the Lord Jesus, but grace is personified. The thing itself is an active matter, not static, although it may be at times, but in a general way throughout this

gospel it is the activity of grace and how it overcomes all opposition.

J.G.V. It is said of Paul in the end of Acts, "And he remained two whole years in his own hired lodging, and received all who came to him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching the things concerning the Lord Jesus Christ, with all freedom unhinderedly", Acts 28:30,31.

J.T. "Received all who came to him", no retinue of servants! Probably chained himself, but there serving. The Lord Jesus says, "But I am in the midst of you as the one that serves", (Luke 22:27).

L.E.S. You were saying something about certain sections of the earth and geography?

J.T. The allusion to Chronicles and Japheth brings out the matter of geography; that is to say, where the gospel was to be announced. From Paul's missionary journeys one is forced to conclude that there are limitations upon our activities. The missionary associations generally make a way into the East, but the Spirit of God in the Acts does not direct that way. After three hundred years of missionary work in the East there is very little accomplished for God. We cannot be sure if the persons numbered as converts are converted at all. The societies have ignored the Spirit's reference to geography in Paul's service; he is directed to go to the West, not the East.

J.W.D. "Go into all the world, and preach the glad tidings to all the creation", (Mark 16:15). What would that include?

J.T. That has all to be taken up. You are quoting Mark, "Go into all the world; and preach the glad tidings to all the creation"(Mark 16:15). The moral side is the world, but all creation is in God's mind. We are not to limit that, but we are to be subject to direction in limitation in our service . We have rather to

follow Luke as to where the gospel is to be preached, for through him we learn how the Spirit of God directs and controls. The facts of the case are seen in Acts.

S.P. Is there not a suggestion of this in Acts 16:6 - 8? "And having passed through Phrygia and the Galatian country, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia, having come down to Mysia, they attempted to go to Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them; and having passed by Mysia they descended to Troas". Does it not suggest limitations for that moment?

J.T. Certainly, "the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them" (Acts 16:7) not the Spirit of Christ, but the Spirit of Jesus, the Man, and the testimony of that is to work out into the West. The kind of Spirit that is to appear in Christianity in the West. Because the Spirit of Jesus is, of course the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of the anointed Man. You may say, How is it, that the Spirit of Jesus would prohibit the preaching of the gospel anywhere? Let us see how Paul finds things. He had a vision. Peter had a vision too, but Paul had this vision and saw a certain Macedonian man, standing and beseeching him. The Macedonian man was in the West, because Paul was in Asia at that time. And this Macedonian man says, "Pass over into Macedonia and help us" (Acts 16:9). Paul would have to go through Asia to Europe to get there. We have to pay attention to these things in regard of where the gospel is to be preached. We have to regard the fact that there is no record of great activity towards the East. We have much said as regards the gospel going towards the West.

H.B. Colossians 1:23 says, "... and not moved away from the hope of the glad tidings, which ye have heard, which have been proclaimed in the whole creation which is under heaven, of which I Paul became a minister". How would that fit in?

There is a great deal in that chapter about the Lord creating everything.

J.T. That is the general fact as stated by Mark in the end of this gospel. We have subdivisions in service. The whole idea in Mark is "all the creation". But the subdivisional limitations asserted in levitical service apply to Europe, as the Acts shows.

J.W.D. I am sure what you are saying is right, but how do you account for those who are converted?

J.T. We know about the magi. The magi from the East came westward. The Lord is said to have bought the whole field . But when we come down to the idea of that field, what the Lord really bought is a particular one. We must make allowance for what has been remarked about Japheth, and how the gospel spread into Europe and the outgoings of Europe. We get the full thought of grace here, and the Vessel through whom the gospel of the grace of God comes to us. He is the Person to learn from, also Paul and others.

Ques. The Lord speaks of Himself as having been anointed to preach glad tidings.

J.T. Quite so. The mind of God as to the whole matter was there, but then it is going to spread out. The second treatise by Luke deals with that, a wider outlook to what he had in the first one.

J.W.D. Why does it say that Jesus came to Nazareth, where He was brought up?

J.T. Well, let us see what is said, "And he came to Nazareth, where he was brought up; and he entered, according to his custom, into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up to read. And the book of the prophet Esaias was given to him; and having unrolled the book he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach glad tidings to the poor; he has sent me to preach to captives

deliverance, and to the blind sight, to send forth the crushed delivered, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord". He finishes and He rolls up the book. We have to learn where to stop. Now the question raised is, Why Nazareth was so adamant, and indifferent to the Lord? He was brought up there. Is it not a warning to us as to what may be in such a situation. We have to see that we have to go back to Christ and learn everything from Him. "But he , passing through the midst of them, went his way, and descended to Capernaum, a city of Galilee" (Luke 4:30,31). Those hard-hearted Jews that were in the town where the Lord was brought up -- He passed through them, "... passing through the midst of them, went his way"(Luke 4:30,31). See what feelings the Lord had as He carried through. What opposition there was, but the Lord passed through the midst of the opposition and came on His way and as coming said a great deal about Elias and Elisha. It reminds us, that what we learn in our youth from religion in Christendom, has to be discarded.

L.E.S. In contrast to the callousness of Nazareth we have in Isaiah 66:2, "But to this man will I look; to the afflicted and contrite in spirit, and who trembleth at my word". And then further on in verse 5, "Hear the word of Jehovah, ye that tremble at his word: Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let Jehovah be glorified, and let us see your joy! but they shall be ashamed" Isaiah 66:5.

J.T. Yes, that helps us, for we have to disallow and unload, what may have been taught us as coming out of whatever 'isms' we have been in. We have to learn everything from Christ.

A.B.M. How far would you carry the thought in relation to our households, those reared amongst us?

J.T. You mean young people? We have to test everything by Scripture whether we may not have

adopted things that will not stand the test of Scripture. It is worth while bringing it up -- will these things stand the test of Scripture? But what we are saying in a general way is that we are so apt to carry with us what we have learnt from our forefathers, carry it in amongst the brethren and retail it without testing it out. The Bereans are always an example, "daily searching the scriptures if these things were so", (Acts 17:11).

C.C.T. Speaking of Timothy, he received his training from his grandmother and his mother. We never hear of there being anything amiss with it.

J.T. There was apparently no fault to be found with their teaching. We all have to come to the point eventually that we learn everything from Christ. There is authority in the Lord. The verses read impress us with the Vessel through whom the gospel has come; it has come through that Person. Have we begun to admire the glory of the Person -- the Vessel of grace. While learning how to preach yourself, you are admiring the marvellous glory of the expression of it all in Christ. It is the idea of the Vessel -- how Christianity has come to us through the gospel.

C.C.T. The whole occasion stands out as unique -- the reading of the book and the rolling of it up.

J.T. "And having rolled up the book, when he had delivered it up to the attendant, he sat down". Meaning that is the point to stop. And then it goes on to say, "And he began" that is a characteristic word to note in Luke. "And he began to say to them, Today this scripture is fulfilled in your ears". The word 'began' in this connection would suggest that there is so much to learn that you have to stop, because the beginning is the thing we are at for the moment. John's gospel gives us the beginning of life, but in Luke it is the beginning of grace. The kind of thing grace is, is the point in the gospel.

S.P. In Revelation 5 there is another book which the Lord opens.

J.T. There is; only that is the book of the inheritance. There is no idea of anyone else but the Lamb opening that. It is the book of the inheritance and involves all the suffering of the book of Revelation. It is most interesting to see the book in the fifth chapter and the throne in the fourth, and then the little book in the tenth. The end of Christianity or Christendom is in view in Revelation, but in Luke we are dealing with the beginning of Christianity. It is an evangelical scene and there is nothing more interesting. We are seeking to do a little preaching and we are doing a little preaching here and there in our meeting-rooms and heaven is interested. The Lord sees there is a little faith to go on, and faith to pray more so that there will be progress, for we are dealing with Christianity in this small way. We are coming to the end of the Christian dispensation, and there is another dispensation coming in that will bring in Israel. The Lord is getting ready for something else and would have us to know. Things appear little with us, but God is with us. The things that will be great to sight are coming. John tells us that in the visions of Revelation, he saw "a great crowd, which no one could number" Revelation 7:9. Young people may say, You are only a few. Nevertheless God is with it, and God would have us to go on with the preaching of the word.

But now let us look at the Lord. The Spirit of God would direct us to fix our eyes upon this Person, to see where He was brought up, and how He does things there, and then what He says. But what a result after these things! so that the Lord went through their midst -- through the midst of them, just the kind of people we are preaching to, and how adamant they are; that is the reason there

are not many converted. Apostasy is rampant in this city and everywhere.

A.J. This book of Isaiah is not sealed. The Lord opened it and gracious words proceeded out of His mouth.

J.T. We have the same book that He opened, and He is in heaven, the same Person who opened the book. You and I are to learn from Him the way, as we seek to preach the gospel in our little meeting-rooms.

L.E.S. In contrast to the preaching of Christendom, it is on a high level.

J.T. And God is in it too, and in our prayer meetings for the gospel.

S.P. We are to be not simply accepting the Nazarene position, but conformed to it.

J.T. From verse 23 to 27, is presented the sovereignty of God in such conditions as that. How God moves sovereignly; that is what He is doing now with a few who are preaching. The Spirit does not despise a day of small things; they are small nevertheless. We want to get the idea of the Vessel of grace that laboured in this dispensation, the present one, that we are in now. The words of grace come out of His mouth. The reference is to the Person. "And having rolled up the book, when he had delivered it up to the attendant, he sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed upon him. And he began to say to them. Today this scripture is fulfilled in your ears". I would say 'today' is this dispensation. "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your ears". Speaking of the dispensation, at the very beginning of it is Jesus.

Ques. What do you say about His sitting down?

J.T. It does not say that He sits on the throne of grace. Grace reigns but it is active. Sitting down here would refer to His personal influence, not so much the activity of administration. As you look

into these things you come into the full thought of what they are worth. In the gospel of Mark, which is characteristic, the Lord says, "The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God has drawn nigh; repent and believe in the glad tidings", Mark 1:15. Not believe it, but believe in it. We get a primary thought of believing in there. However much there may be, go into it.

C.C.T. Do you find an order here in regard of the way things take place, the reading, the rolling up of the book, and the sitting down?

J.T. The Lord would have us admire the opening of this beautiful thing. We hear of half-open flowers in the temple. There is the presence of life in this connection; how grace is set out in the beginning, how it is set out in the Lord, in His deeds, we want to contemplate and admire it. That is what is intended; that we should be admirers of Christ as the Preacher. It is the appeal of the Person, all here in the synagogue heard Him. It is remarkable that "... all bore witness to him, and wondered at the words of grace which were coming out of his mouth".

L.E.S. Is the personality of the preacher a counterpart of the preaching?

J.T. I should think so. In the seminaries of Christendom, there is no idea of beautiful persons morally, but of oratory. We are getting here something of grace itself, absolutely original, there was never such a Person like this before.

L.E.S. Would you suggest that this is to be the model for all who serve in a small way in the preaching?

J.T. We have the preachings in the little rooms and the brethren come and a lot of children come and the mothers come; that is smallness marks it, but sometimes a brother gets up full of the grace, full of these thoughts from God. He is thinking of

the Person through whom Christianity has come to us. This passage is to show how beautiful Jesus is, and to show the effect on every one.

A.D. It is remarkable to take account of this matter of witness. "And all bore witness to him, and wondered at the words of grace which were coming out of his mouth". But they discount His words.

J.T. That is a good point. We may get persons in the room to hear the gospel, such as those from the religious systems; they may come in and go out, and not come back again because they do not see what we are engaged with. The point for us, nevertheless, is to be engaged with this Person and what the preaching was as presented in Christ.

J.G.V. When the Lord refers to their ears it would bring in the thought of responsibility.

J.T. He puts the responsibility on them. The whole position is exposed, because the grace is there and they turn away from it.

Rem. "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your ears", that holds good today, too.

J.T. It is what happened in Dublin when they began to preach the gospel, and this gospel of Luke began to open up to the brethren. They were not many, they began to preach in a furniture store. Not many attended, but the people of Dublin had the thing fulfilled in their ears and the whole country began to speak of it after a while because the false religious position was attacked. God has stood by the brethren ever since, although they have never been very large. God has kept to the real thing and is going on with it now.

A.B.M. Does Luke suggest the bringing to light of persons who would be the nucleus of the assembly in the Acts?

J.T. They are coming to light, one here and one there. It is remarkable the smallness of it, but the

genuineness of it too, and God is going on with that. It is a beautiful picture here -- the kind of preaching Christianity started with.

J.W.D. It is said of Paul, "And straightway in the synagogues he preached Jesus, that he is the Son of God. And all who heard were astonished", (Acts 9:20). Is that something like the refusal you get here -- nobody converted? There was grace in personality with Paul.

J.T. And that is the case with us. But the thing is of God notwithstanding the smallness of it. God is standing by the thing and making it impressive to others. If you get a conversion like the woman of Samaria or the eunuch, it is worth while. It is remarkable how little you get of large numbers in the book of Acts. The first three thousand increased during the initial period to five thousand and showed what God could do, that He could get numbers. But there is never any repetition of that.

L.E.S. Paul's preaching although it did not yield much at that time, must have been a marvellous setting forth of Luke 4.

J.T. There was little effect and that is so with us, but I think God is standing by it. I am certain of it. Although one generation is passing away, there is another coming and you want that other to be right, too, and to get some impression of Jesus, the Vessel of grace that is presented here so beautifully by Luke, whom God used for it.

L.E.S. So you would encourage the brethren to go on with the preaching.

J.T. That is what I am saying, "eye-witnesses of and attendants on the Word" (Luke 1:2); we are witnesses of what we are saying. Whatever we may be doing, we are to be attendant on the Lord. It is the Word there, the Logos, the Person saying the thing. I must be attendant on Him. It is sorrowful how the smallest things, a shower of rain, keep people at

home from the meeting. God says, "Henceforth, all the days of the earth, seed time and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night, shall not cease" (Genesis 8:22). The seasons of the year are His ordering, and yet a little rain is made an obstacle to coming to the meeting. We are to be "eye-witnesses of and attendants on the Word"(Luke 1:2). Are you looking after that? Do you see the Person who is speaking?

A.E.J. The aggregate of all that is seen in the wonderful results in the western world. Christ is beginning to preach in Luke 4, and the preaching is now continued by those here too.

J.T. Quite so. God is attending to that. But if you consider the whole history how poor the attendance is. It is not simply the listening to the thing, but the going after the Person from whom it comes, "eye-witnesses of and attendants on the Word"(Luke 1:2). Luke is telling us that these men he is writing about would listen to the Lord Jesus and be attendant on Him as well.

THE THRONE OF GRACE (2)

Luke 7:1 - 17,36 - 50

J.T. The brethren will bear in mind that we are not taking up the gospel of Luke but the throne of grace as the subject. What is in mind now is to show that as the narrative proceeds we have favourable conditions and therefore we have to bring in the Spirit and His work, particularly to see how the Spirit appears in relation to that throne, in relation to grace, otherwise there would be no result. The chapter brings out results from the gospel. They are seen in the persons who are brought forward, especially the centurion, and then the widow of Nain, and then the woman of the city who was a sinner, of whom it is said, "she loved much". So that while we are touched by the comparative barrenness of the gospel service of the present time yet this chapter would show that there are results and that these results are brought about by the Spirit, the Spirit being here on earth in relation to the throne of grace.

S.W.P. Is the Spirit here producing a subjective work contemporary with God's movements?

J.T. In this section there are good relations with the Jews. Actual antagonism, or pure negligence, or opposition to the Lord as in chapter 4, are not seen, but we have something going on in the section which is favourable to the Jews, and something going on in the woman as a sure witness that the dispensation is fruitful. Our gatherings are to have fruitfulness; there is fruitfulness and we are to expect it.

L.E.S. Would there be a link in Luke with what is said by the prophet Zechariah referring to the day of small things; "Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith Jehovah of hosts", Zechariah 4:6. And then there is the thought of the headstone, and the shoutings, "Grace, grace unto it!" Zechariah 4:7.

J.T. That helps us as to the possibilities, for we are not working for nothing; grace is not in vain. The work of the Lord goes on, and it is not in vain, so that Zerubbabel would be the responsible or governing side in that he would set up the corner stone; that is, the faithfulness of the Lord would come in there. That something would be done according to the divine mind is clear; the designed and certain sequel of that enters into what we have in the chapter.

C.C.T. This is the thought of doing. This morning we had the thought of the Lord beginning to say; at the opening of this chapter we have the Lord completing His words.

J.T. That is something that we should contemplate. It would involve the importance of what the Lord had said in the interval between chapters 4 and 7, because the teaching of the Lord must run parallel with the preaching. The Lord's sayings would fill out what would be expected in certain circumstances of the dispensation.

L.E.S. What is the difference between preaching and teaching?

J.T. Well, preaching is a gift and it is a gift involving power, peculiar power. While we are considering that point, there is also the charm of the Preacher, that is of the Lord Himself. Luke is particularly the preaching gospel. And then the teaching which also involves gift goes with that. That includes the opening up of the minds of the brethren as alluded to already, "Then he opened their understanding to understand the scriptures, and said to them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved the Christ to suffer, and to rise from among the dead the third day; and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name to all the nations beginning at Jerusalem", (Luke 24:45 - 47). The operations of grace to save come out in preaching. The

Lord also said that the Spirit should guide us into the truth. As the truth has its way these men are able to meet conditions; that is, the servants, who are teaching.

C.C.T. Would teaching help to bring us into what we are brought to in the preaching?

J.T. Just so. The teaching is the working out of things in the mind. The preacher, I think, suggests the power that applies the truth of the gospel in the way of grace, the preaching of grace, but the teaching is to open it up in detail and give the why and wherefore of it. If we had nothing but preaching we would have poor intelligence and no instruction; there may be conversions but the mind is defective. Preaching is sometimes called announcing or proclaiming. Sometimes you have such words that strike the mind, affecting it in the sense of wonder, by things that are wonderful. But teaching is more sober and gives the answers to the questions of the mind.

L.E.S. Where you feel you have no gift in the preaching in a locality how would you proceed in regard to the gospel?

J.T. I would say, Preach the word; that is to say, the mind of God, the announcing in that sense. Let us see how the matter is found in 2 Timothy 4:1, "I testify before God and Christ Jesus, who is about to judge living and dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom, proclaim the word; be urgent in season and out of season, convict, rebuke, encourage, with all longsuffering and doctrine". I think I would work on those lines if we have no one that can preach as having gift. It is a matter of the knowledge of the word of God. If we are Christians at all we have some knowledge.

H.B. "Do the work of an evangelist", (2 Timothy 4:5).

J.T. Showing that the actual gift of evangelisation is not contemplated and yet the work can go on without it.

C.C.T. "How beautiful the feet of them that announce glad tidings of peace", (Romans 10:15). Is that the same line in connection with the preaching?

J.T. Well, it is announcing, but the word 'preaching' has more force in itself. The thing called preaching is something more than announcing or setting out facts. Should we look at 1 Timothy 2:5 - 7? "For God is one, and the mediator of God and men one, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony to be rendered in its own times; to which I have been appointed a herald and apostle (I speak the truth, I do not lie,) a teacher of the nations in faith and truth". I think you get the thing we are speaking of now in what Paul says about himself. There is the revelation of God being one, and the mediator between God and men one, and then by the gift that Paul had, "the testimony to be rendered in its own times; to which I have been appointed a herald and apostle (I speak the truth, I do not lie,) a teacher of the nations in faith and truth" 1 Timothy 2:6,7. I think that the apostle takes account of all that we are speaking of, as to the way, the proclamation or preaching or teaching. The word 'heralding' is used here.

S.W.P. Does the teaching show there is a result? I was thinking of Deuteronomy 4:5,6, "See, I have taught you statutes and ordinances, even as Jehovah my God commanded me, that ye may do so in the land into which ye enter to possess it. And ye shall keep and do them; for that will be your wisdom and your understanding before the eyes of the peoples that shall hear all these statutes, and say, Verily this great nation is a wise and understanding people".

J.T. Well, that is a point in what we are saying too. The prophets are filled with the thought of teaching. For instance, Hosea says, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge". Hosea 4:6. And then it says further, "And we shall know, -- we

shall follow on to know Jehovah: his going forth is assured as the morning dawn; and he will come unto us as the rain, as the latter rain which watereth the earth", Hosea 6:3. So that the condition of the people, the intelligence of the people, keeps pace with what they know by preaching. The preaching is powerful and affects them both as to their minds and sentiments or feelings. But then if we do not go on, if we do not keep pace with it in the sense of teaching, we shall not have understanding. So to the Corinthians Paul says, "I speak as to intelligent persons: do ye judge what I say", 1 Corinthians 10:15. Corinthians is full of that -- it is the assembly in its formation; the why and wherefore of things. Hence the Lord's supper is the very centre of assembly formation and witness. We know what we are eating and why we are eating it.

L.E.S. The book of Ecclesiastes having the preaching in view has in mind the matter of the assembly.

J.T. "The Preacher" is the title of the person who is the author of the book. But he is a former of assemblies as we have often noticed. The preacher would have that in mind, that the persons who are affected by his preaching are formed into assemblies. He would set out suitable words, words of truth, so that they may know why this is so. It is of prime importance with the coming generation. There is always the question of generations coming and going. What should mark the young generation is that youth should be brought up with their elders, not left to themselves. Therefore the idea of youth ministry, preaching or teaching for the young people alone, has not been found fruitful. The elders having the knowledge of the thing would confirm what is taught to the young and therefore things should be carried on on those lines, the elder and the younger together. The youth is then brought up with a knowledge of what is done and why it is done. Hence in the types

you have the thought, When your children shall ask you why are these things so, the coming generation asking the going generation. The going generation have the thing in their souls and they communicate it to the youth.

S.W.P. Children should be with their parents in these meetings. Young children are influenced and take things on.

J.T. I notice how young children who are thoughtful do take account of what is being said. But we have Luke 7 before us. Chapter 4 is necessary to bring out the Person of the Lord Jesus as the Vessel of grace and how He carries on in setting out the gospel, but we get no results; although in His own town, where He was brought up, yet we get no results. In chapter 7 we have results, and of course we must allow for, in relation to chapter 4, the results which follow, through God's work by the Spirit.

N.B. Is there a link between grace and sovereignty? Luke says, "And a certain centurion's bondman who was dear to him was ill and about to die".

J.T. Yes, the man was a gentile mingling with the Jews, and of good report among the Jews; there is an element of virtue in that. It is not like the social relations that Christians join in with the neighbours; there is no virtue in that, but the contrary. But here in the relations there is virtue, God has something in the matter.

L.E.S. Say something more as to links outside.

J.T. Take the position now, there are a great number of brethren abroad in the Forces. Persons like the centurion have links with the young brothers, who mingle with these persons in military circumstances. We have to consider whether these circumstances may be conducive to the gospel, and in that way have virtue in them, as compared with ordinary social circumstances in business or among neighbours

which may be detrimental to the saints. The great point is what might be conducive, or virtuous in human relations. Whether we are Christians or not, we are human persons; that is, men, women and children. So it is whether these circumstances are conducive to good or bad, whether there is virtue in them or otherwise. This chapter contemplates the military class and persons who are respectable religious people. The question is if in such relations there is much real virtue having a bearing on the gospel. It is important whether we are going to get anything out of them, whether with the young brothers in these circumstances there is anything coming out for the testimony.

H.B. We hear of them being approved by those over them.

J.T. That is the general testimony that the young brothers in the Forces commend themselves to their officers.

J.G.V. This centurion has some idea of authority.

J.T. What kind of a man is he? He is exceptional. "Not even in Israel have I found so great faith" -- something that is in humanity that God can use, because that is the way the Lord takes it on. First of all, in verse 4, the Jews give a good account of this centurion, "he loves our nation". Luke says, "And a certain centurion's bondman who was dear to him was ill and about to die". He was a bondman dear to his master -- another point to note. "And having heard of Jesus, he sent to him elders of the Jews, begging him that he might come and save his bondman. But they, being come to Jesus, besought him diligently, saying, He is worthy to whom thou shouldest grant this, for he loves our nation, and himself has built the synagogue for us. And Jesus went with them". That is to say, from the divine side, there is virtue in this. Such is commended to the Lord's own attention. "And Jesus went with

them. But already, when he was not far from the house, the centurion sent to him friends". It does not say he sent the military, but his own personal friends, "saying to him, Lord, do not trouble thyself, for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof. Wherefore neither did I count myself worthy to come to thee. But say by a word and my servant shall be healed. For I also am a man placed under authority, having under myself soldiers, and I say to this one, Go, and he goes; and to another, Come, and he comes; and to my bondman, Do this, and he does it. And Jesus hearing this wondered at him, and turning to the crowd following him said, I say to you, Not even in Israel have I found so great faith". Well now, that is a wonderful fact. You might say some are interested today to some extent, and consequently we can count on some result from it.

L.E.S. Do you not think that in dealing with men we should seek to discern some evidence of the work of God in them?

J.T. That is something to have our eyes open for. Not only at the Sunday evening preachings and the Bible readings, but at all times, for the fact is that the work of God is going on all the time while the Spirit is here.

S.W.P. The bondman is about to die; he is dying. The Lord is looking for affection. The centurion loves his bondman and the widowed mother loves her son, and the Lord sees that.

J.T. It is a wonderful scene, and it expresses the dispensation we are dealing with; that love is there in whatever measure it may be; there is evidence of the work of God, which is indispensable to what will happen. For something will happen for God. We are not looking at the Lord Jesus now, in these verses, but at the work of God. The centurion's bondman, and his military men, and the man himself, and other

elements seen here in persons, all bring into evidence what God is doing by the Spirit. It is the Spirit operative in man, and if we do not get them in the gospel, there will be no assembly; but if we do, then the fruit is formed in the assembly.

A.B.M. The preaching in the room would be in view of bringing to light the work of God.

J.T. Look at this scene -- the Lord exclaiming: "Not even in Israel have I found so great faith". The Lord saw that in that man. He is not referring to what He is doing, but what the Spirit is doing. How many are brought into it! The friends of the centurion, for instance. Who are these? "And they who had been sent returning to the house found the bondman, who was ill, in good health". Why did the centurion not let the Lord come to the house? Is it to bring out the magnitude of the Spirit's work in this centurion that he describes the position so perfectly? His own position under authority corresponds with the Lord's position. These friends of his are sent to the Lord. "Lord, do not trouble thyself, for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof. Wherefore neither did I count myself worthy to come to thee. But say by a word and my servant shall be healed. For I also" (the 'I' is emphatic), "am a man placed under authority, having under myself soldiers, and I say to this one, Go, and he goes; and to another. Come, and he comes; and to my bondman, Do this, and he does it". That is the story. Well, now what is the effect on the Lord? The Lord says, 'It is wonderful!' Think of the Lord Jesus saying that! It is not His own work He is talking about, but He is talking of what happened in the centurion, which is the Spirit's work.

Ques. When he says, "I also am a man placed under authority", had he not seen something in the Lord in regard of His power?

J.T. He must have seen something and what affects the Lord is that the man can say that. The Lord Jesus is a lone Man, not a military man, or a man of society, but this centurion is able to see He is under authority, a delegate from heaven. The man is there representing the Roman empire and its authority over the soldiers, so the Lord Jesus has come down from heaven having authority. Outwardly he saw a Man like himself. The Lord is greatly impressed by what he said and we are to look for something like that in men brought to the truth. Can we not look for something like this to happen? I think we can.

L.E.S. The possibilities in what exists around us are very large.

J.T. I believe we may expect in a small way what corresponds to what has accrued from the gospel testimony in all these happenings.

J.K. People are impressed by the way things are done rather than by the words: the man in 1 Corinthians 14 saw that things were to be done in a certain way.

J.T. It says there, "And thus, falling upon his face, he will do homage to God, reporting that God is indeed amongst you" 1 Corinthians 14:25. I think we may see something like that.

H.B. The Lord entered into Capernaum, we are told in the commencement of this chapter. Are we to look therefore in preaching and visiting for the work of God to come to light?

J.T. A man under exercise should see how things are done, and as affected he will contribute something. If we get anything like that we are encouraged to go on, for God is in it.

A.H. The work of God in the centurion was brought to light by the bondman's sickness.

J.T. Just so. It is remarkable that it is a military man, and that he loved his servant. The idea of love

is almost foreign to that relationship in society, but not in this man's case. He was exercising his authority in love. "Love is of God, and every one that loves has been begotten of God, and knows God", (1 John 4:7).

Ques. Is there anything in the centurion in Acts 10, by way of correspondence?

J.T. There is great correspondence; the pious soldier is remarkable there. This man or his servants in Luke 7 are not said to be pious. But still there is a great correspondence and they are centurions in both cases. The details and reports we get are remarkable as to how the young brethren are able to speak to officers and those above them. Most affecting are the things that come to light.

Rem. It also says, "He loves our nation", would that indicate the work of God?

J.T. Yes. Compare that with what has happened in Europe in the last five or six years. You could hardly say there was a good reason for the antagonism to the Jews. Here the man loves the Jews. Any one that loves the Jews in this sense, shows the work of God, that love is of God.

J.W.D. What would you say of Lydia as a seller of purple?

J.T. Well, she was a merchant. One has often thought of persons engaged in merchandising. One has thought of Rachel; she was a shepherdess. There are the five men that Joseph selected to bring into the presence of Pharaoh; he insists that they should specify the kind of business they were engaged in; they were shepherds. Oh, one might say, the king of Egypt will not care much for shepherds, better try and say they can do gardening or farming, but no, Joseph insists that that is their occupation. He knows Pharaoh is going to say something about their occupation, and he does and then Pharaoh says,

I have got cattle and I would like some to care for my cattle. Persons who are Christians are commendable because of their occupation. We need not be ashamed of it, even if it brings us into reproach. There is nothing to be ashamed of in what is of God. This matter of occupation is important. What kind of occupation do you follow? Lydia was a seller of purple -- I suppose the word refers to a kind of dyed stuff.

J.W.D. It must have been a difficult business -- you would not sell much purple save to the very rich. Yet it is remarkable how Paul links himself on with her. "Let each abide in that calling in which he has been called", (1 Corinthians 7:20).

J.T. Is it worth while going into another calling? Is it worth while for a Christian who is going in for heavenly things? Abide in what you have with God. Why move away from my occupation? Suppose you want to become a doctor, it takes from four to six years to become a doctor. Why change your occupation as long as you can go on with God in it? It is a question of time. There is no time to spare as going on with what you have with God.

C.C.T. Satisfied with your present circumstances.

J.T. We have no time for anything much, because so much is to be done with God and His things.

J.K. Is it not notable that, when the centurion sends to the Lord begging Him to come and save his bondman, it is those who are sent who speak of his worthiness? He has no thought of it himself, he is begging the Lord to come.

J.T. It looks as if the whole scene is intended to convey that it is not hardness as in Nazareth, but that there is the work of God coming in. There was not in Nazareth but there is here. This passage was selected because it gives such a remarkable outlook of the results of the gospel. These are to be attributed

to the work of God by the Spirit not the throne of grace, but the work of God by the Spirit. In the assembly itself is the testimony to the throne of grace; we see there that grace is greater than any difficulty, so that it can exist even although the difficulties are existing, too. This woman of the city who was a sinner was a difficult case, but grace was greater than the difficulty.

Ques. Is she born again? Is there new birth there?

J.T. That is the point. There is something going on that no one knows, but we are supposed to know these things. As we see them here, Luke puts them down and we are to name them. That is, the centurion is born again -- the mighty work of God was there, and we are to notice it.

L.E.S. We are to discern these things.

J.T. Luke contemplates that we are to be able to name these things. Grace was seen in the end of the chapter in forgiveness. Two persons are contemplated; one is said to owe five hundred pence and the other fifty. Well, we are able to name the person who is the five hundred pence debtor. If that person is to be forgiven it is grace. Grace must overcome the difficulty. The centurion gave a cause for the Lord to wonder; he spoke of things in such a way that he causes the Lord to wonder, like the servant of Abraham who wondered at what he saw in Rebecca.

J.W.D. Your suggestion is that the difficulties of the brethren in any locality may yield much as the Spirit is recognised.

J.T. The very thing going on alongside the throne of grace is the work of the Spirit. The work of the Spirit is to be viewed by itself, of course, but it is seen here in the centurion's conditions, and what surrounded him.

J.W.D. What about the widow of Nain?

J.T. I should think what is seen there is the circumstances of humanity. We are to have the whole of humanity in mind. The first set of circumstances is connected with the centurion and then the woman also sets out humanity, humanity as bringing out divine compassion -- the weakness of humanity, of humanity affected by sorrow. God can be affected by the sorrows of humanity. The facts are, "And it came to pass afterwards he went into a city called Nain, and many of his disciples and a great crowd went with him". How are they affected now? They were not going with Him at Nazareth, but here they are. "And as he drew near to the gate of the city, behold, a dead man was carried out, the only son of his mother, and she a widow, and a very considerable crowd of the city was with her". Well, now what happens? "And the Lord, seeing her, was moved with compassion for her, and said to her". This is not the Spirit, it is the Lord Himself. It is a question of divine compassion for humanity in its sorrow. And what sorrow there is now! What has been seen in these recent years is behind nothing that has been seen in humanity. And surely God would call us into it. "And the Lord, seeing her, was moved with compassion for her, and said to her, Weep not; and coming up he touched the bier, and the bearers stopped. And he said, Youth, I say to thee, Wake up. And the dead sat up and began to speak; and he gave him to his mother". There it is, a marvellous scene. It is God. Not a friend of God, but God in Christ, it is Jesus, God come down into humanity to see it, so close, to see all its sorrow. And see how He is moved by it. Surely it is a wonderful thing to be capable of being moved by such scenes, and see how God can come into them. "And coming up he touched the bier" -- He came so close -- "and the bearers stopped. And he said, Youth, I say to thee, Wake up. And the

dead sat up and began to speak; and he gave him to his mother". Surely now we have something to affect us. Something that God is doing. There is death in a young person and the mother is a widow; he dies before his mother. There are much people affected by it. It is a question of people being affected by it. God would approve of human beings being affected by such circumstances, and He comes in and gives them deliverance. The dead sat up and spoke. What will he say? What kind of conversation will he carry on? It all shows that the Lord had feelings of manhood in Himself; that is to say man as covering the human race; that kind of being. How God is affected by the sorrow of humanity. Then we have the youth sitting up and speaking because he is told to 'Wake up'. What will he speak about? What will he read? What kind of conversation will he carry on with the neighbours hereafter? That is the idea Luke has in mind.

S.W.P. In the first instance with the centurion it is "when he was not far from the house" and in this section it is, "as he drew near to the gate of the city". Not far from the house and near to the gate of the city, would suggest the activities of the Spirit, of the work of God, that grace is moving in the closest concert with divine operations.

J.T. The whole scene is moving. There is considerable movement on parallel lines, but the result is condensed with the whole scene in mind; that is to say, the young man sat up. "And the dead sat up and began to speak; and he gave him to his mother". I think that has to be worked out in a sense in the youth amongst the brethren, the coming generation. "He gave him to his mother". Where are young people to get things? In their parents. "He gave him to his mother". That is to bring out what was going on, not simply that the young man is made to live, but the family link is re-established.

N.B. Is the thought of administration in localities, seen in the gates of a city? It says, "As he drew near to the gate of the city".

J.T. It was where administration should be, but there was nothing there to meet the situation. The gate is where things are carried on. If there was anything for God at all it should be there, but there was nothing there; it was all in Christ. And everything is there in Christ, and more, because the boy is delivered back to his mother.

J.W.D. In Timothy we get what happens in the last days, "disobedient to parents, ungrateful, profane, without natural affection", 2 Timothy 3:2. Is this the way grace meets these conditions?

J.T. Very good. You do feel in moving about amongst the brethren the need for the parents to take on responsibility. How much need there is for the parents to take account of their youths and get them under their influence, "he gave him to his mother".

C.C.T. "Wake up". How would that fit in with our children today?

J.T. Well, "Wake up" means something, only the point is power. The word, "Wake up", means something as though God has already moved to bring about life. As Paul says of the young man who fell from the window -- "his life is in him". Now in Elijah's case the son of the mistress of the house died and Elijah asked Jehovah to cause the soul of the boy to come back into him. It had left him. It is God's way to thoroughly take account of what the matter is. If the soul has left him, it comes back, for God brings it back. And so here the boy wakes up. There is something in him which can be retrieved in that way.

J.G.V. It is evidently right to feel this in a great way, the mother being a widow.

J.T. Quite so. Who can tell what the Lord felt about the widow being left without her only son? How the Lord felt that! And thus God would create in us right feelings for men, feelings of compassion.

H.B. It is the dying out of a generation.

J.T. Yes, there would be nothing left. If she died that would be the end of it.

J.K. He is called a man first and then a youth. Does he start over again on a new basis?

J.T. I believe so. The powers today make much of youth. The powers that be will do anything for the children. They do not care anything for the old people. The food is given to the children more than the old people. What is in men's minds is in God's mind -- the value of the youth.

N.B. The true spirit of motherhood is seen here.

J.T. The word here denotes humanity not simply Jews, but men in the abstract. The Lord is affected by the scene, what man has come to through sin. She is not called a Jewish widow, but just a widow, "the only son of his mother, and she a widow".

A.B.M. The mother is equipped to provide for him. There is nothing said about food. When the Lord raised up the young maiden He told them immediately to give her something to eat. Here the Lord turns the young man over to the mother.

J.T. I think the suggestion is that the boy was able to provide. He is a youth, a young man. The Lord calls him, "Youth". A young man like that should be able to provide for himself.

Ques. Does the thought in Philippians of fulfilling my joy enter into this matter -- the bowels of compassion?

J.T. I think that is good. The Philippian epistle shows the working out of the life of Christianity. So if it be the women helping the apostle, they are to be looked after.

Rem. The only son of his mother. Is there the thought of sonship in that way?

J.T. Quite so. Only it is what we were saying: he should be able to provide for her. God does not intend humanity to be destitute. Look at the resources of God today, so that humanity is not destitute of food. God comes in in these things and we should see what would come in to help men.

H.B. This matter of the youth speaking is important. One finds sometimes in meetings a lack of this. Many are not free to speak in their localities, in the various meetings.

J.T. Yes, you wonder about the dumb brothers. How much there is of that kind of thing in Luke. Zacharias was dumb for a season. So that in Luke 11 the Lord is casting out a demon and it is dumb. "And he was casting out a demon, and it was dumb; and it came to pass, the demon being gone out, the dumb man spoke" Luke 11:14. That is what you mean. Young brothers in the meetings not saying anything and if they do say anything there is not much in it. Not only that we can say something, but what is there in what we say. "I speak as to intelligent persons: do ye judge what I say", (1 Corinthians 10:15). Because the idea of speaking must enter into the assembly. The Lord stands in the midst of the assembly, and that implies this power of speaking in the assembly.

C.C.T. The man sitting at the feet of Jesus, his mind right, was able to speak rightly. We will not be dumb if we are found at the feet of Jesus.

J.T. It is very striking that the young man began to speak. The Lord did not tell him to speak, but he began to speak, showing that it was an assembly man that was coming to light. That is a priest, "For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and at his mouth they seek the law", (Malachi 2:7). He is giving the Lord his mouth, so to speak. That reference is to the administrative side of the assembly, not the

service side. I am sure the present circumstances are intended for help in that. We are to understand the meaning of the very expression 'humanity' as being of God; that order of being, man, was intended to be representing God. "God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness", (Genesis 1:26). That was in the mind of God and that involved all these features of humanity. Sin having entered has brought about all this weeping, and what is found in the widow in these circumstances. We are in the midst of such circumstances to a degree beyond anything that has been in the world before, and surely God would affect us from the standpoint of humanity!

THE THRONE OF GRACE (3)

Luke 14:7 - 24

J.T. In considering the throne of grace and what is attendant on it, we have so far read in chapters 4 and 7. The house of God is before us in chapters 14 and 15, but on a higher level in chapter 15. Possibly later we can look at the last chapter which deals with our subject directly and literally, not parabolically. So we can see how much has entered into Christianity. Chapter 7 is of particular moment in our subject as showing how the gospel works out in subjective conditions amongst men favourable to the truth, favourable to the work of God. We looked at the centurion yesterday at some length and I believe profitably, we failed to reach the woman of the city who is said to be a sinner, but she is a very important part of the picture. She represents love, not as it was seen in the centurion and his servant, or as to the Jews, but love begotten because she was forgiven; it arose from grace operating in herself and hence she becomes a representative of the truth. She is among the persons who love, of whom there may be many or few, but those who have love in their hearts, love begotten because of forgiveness. She loved much because she was forgiven much, a very happy basis on which to have love -- the basis of forgiveness. And this is sure to work out in qualities that would make for the assembly. The next chapter, eight, deals with those who form the assembly, the man, and the woman, and the child. The woman is conscious of virtue entering into her; she becomes something; she has something she had not before, and that something comes from the Lord. The Lord Himself discerns that virtue had gone out of Him and this virtue involves her. So the chapter gives us in type the constitution of the assembly as we may say, formed of men, women

and children. So young people of twelve years are clearly involved; a twelve-year-old girl may be in fellowship, but the work of God must be there. It is secured in chapter 7, for chapter seven is primarily the work of God by the Spirit, which affects certain things in men, women and children. These things may be seen in actual formation by the Spirit and also may be seen in things working in a hidden yet real way in souls. For the moment that serves our purpose to enlarge on what serves God in making the position favourable. This may be seen in a peculiar way just now, because certain governments allied together are in general favourable to the truth, and make a way for it.

S.W.P. What are we to look for in young persons desiring to break bread? Are we to consider for their tender years and the simplicity of their desires, or rather a distinct work of the Spirit in them?

J.T. The work stands in relation to the work in their parents. The person in question (chapter 8) is a young girl, Jairus' daughter. The matter of the woman comes in between the man and the child. "And it came to pass when Jesus returned, the crowd received him gladly, for they were all expecting him. And behold, a man came, whose name was Jairus, and he was a ruler of the synagogue, and falling at the feet of Jesus besought him to come to his house, because he had an only daughter about twelve years old, and she was dying" Luke 8:40 - 42. This is important to notice, that in chapter 7 it was an only son of the widow; here it is an only daughter. Well, that is the case of the child so far, and then the woman comes who had the flux of blood for twelve years. Her case offers much material for the subject of the truth generally, because it is a full grown person who is suffering from an inward condition. It is a question of inwardness in her condition. She intervenes between the beginning and end of Jairus' case. The

Lord said as to her, "Some one has touched me, for I have known that power has gone out from me" (Luke 8:46). The Lord is now speaking of virtue in dealing with men, man or woman, and the result was such that she could not hide. The feminine side is generally secretive. "And the woman, seeing that she was not hid, came trembling, and falling down before him declared before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was immediately healed" (Luke 8:47). The Lord calls her, 'Daughter', which means that she is taken into the divine family, a very important matter. Taken into the divine family as subjectively equal to it, because she had faith. The Lord therefore says, "Thy faith has healed thee" (Luke 8:48). It was what she had. And then we are told, "While he was yet speaking, comes some one from the ruler of the synagogue, saying to him, Thy daughter is dead" (Luke 8:49). Then they say, "Do not trouble the teacher" (Luke 8:49). They give it up as a hopeless matter. "But Jesus, hearing it, answered him saying, Fear not: only believe, and she shall be made well. And when he came to the house he suffered no one to go in but Peter and John and James and the father of the child and the mother" (Luke 8:50,51). That is both parents are in this matter; that is something for the brethren to note -- the kind of persons that have to do with these young people. Who are they? The parents of course have their service, and then the kind of servants eligible for the service. The Lord "suffered no one to go in but Peter and John and James and the father of the child and the mother" (Luke 8:51). That is, two parents and these three brothers; the others have to be put out. Some in the house "were weeping and lamenting her" (Luke 8:52). This weeping is of no help at all. The Lord says, "Do not weep, for she has not died, but sleeps" (Luke 8:52). The report was a deception. It is not as serious as it looks to others. It may have gone very far, but still there is some sign of life; very dim

perhaps, but there is something there. Therefore the case is not abandoned. The people said she had died, but they were deceived. "But he [the Lord], having turned them all out and taking hold of her hand, cried saying, Child, arise" (Luke 8:54). "Having turned them all out" -- these persons who have not the right view or understanding of the matter are put out. We have to take notice, if we are having to do with young people, what kind of people are useful, and those who are useless. "But he, having turned them all out and taking hold of her hand, cried saying, Child, arise" (Luke 8:54). He calls her, Child. "And her spirit returned, and immediately she rose up; and he commanded something to eat to be given to her. And her parents were amazed; but he enjoined them to tell no one what had happened" (Luke 8:55,56). The parents are not told what to give her to eat, just that she must get something to eat eventually. The Lord here tells Peter, James and John and the parents that something must be given her to eat. It is characteristic of the Lord. "Have ye anything here to eat?" (Luke 24:41) the Lord says; young people are to have enough to eat profitably.

J.K. Is there any thought of adjustment for the parents having to stand by and wait for the woman to be healed?

J.T. It was not an interruption, it was all one work. The whole chapter is taken up with humanity in the man, woman and child. The first is the man, the demoniac, the woman is the inward condition, having in mind the affections, and finally the child, the girl.

N.B. Who would correspond to Peter, James and John in a locality today?

J.T. The brethren whom the Lord is using. Because there are useful men whom the Lord is using in the localities. I suppose Peter, James and John are outstanding in that sense.

C.C.T. According to this chapter, it seems that parents would be thankful to have Peter, James and John come in, men who would look after the child?

J.T. Yes, and they should be.

L.E.S. So the thing is participated in on the part of both mother and father.

J.T. Well, the father gives what we might call the moral standing or status in which the child is brought up, and, of course, he is responsible. Ephesians gives directions for the fathers. "And ye fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and admonition of the Lord", Ephesians 6:4. The moral qualities are so important, and the mother is nearest to the child and is more with it; she is the person to watch what it is given to eat, to watch what they read, to oversee it. I am sure we do not realise enough what dangers there are in what they read. They tell each other what they read and lend books to each other.

C.C.T. No doubt the magazines went out of the jailer's house very quickly.

J.T. Quite so. Elisha took up the Shunammite's boy, who was sick and had died, and put him on his own bed, and then went around the house, as if to look around and see what he had been reading, what was lying around the place, in the bedrooms and the like.

H.B. Matthew mentions the flute players.

J.T. He does, that is the extension of what is here. Matthew is generally severe in an instance like this because he outlines the Jewish condition and system.

L.E.S. Do you not think our young people sometimes are damaged by the influence of neighbours and companionship of that sort?

J.T. Yes, what you might call Moabitish neighbours. Affiliation with them because they are neighbours. There is no virtue in that at all. They may

be Jewish, or Unitarians, but they are still neighbours, that is where the damage is.

A.B.M. In this case that we are considering everything is clear on the surface, but there are people inside the house and the Lord only takes in these three and puts the others outside. Would that speak of outside connections and the damage in them?

J.T. We are to seek to promote truthfulness in our young people. It is one of the main things with them to be deceptive as regards their companionships and it is the vocation of the mother particularly to watch that.

C.C.T. How does the Lord deal with the thing?

J.T. He puts the thing right. The Lord does not take much account of the girl coming into it at all, but much is made of the parental thought, but there is really some life there, some spiritual life that can be counted on in the girl.

S.W.P. Peter, John and James are elements that are watchful over this spark of life; they do not allow it to go out; they nurture it.

J.T. Just so. You can understand that. These men are outstanding, men exemplary of the divine system. We shall see that they have part in the upper matter in the next chapter; that is to say, the mount of transfiguration. Let us see what part they have in that. Luke 9:28 says, "And it came to pass after these words, about eight days, that taking Peter and John and James he went up into a mountain to pray". That is, they are honoured in that way, the same persons. So we are now coming to the system the Lord is inaugurating to care for things and look after things. And these men are distinguished, touching the matter. We could read the whole gospel but it would take too long to get through at this time. But there are men, women and children; that is a most important matter, because in all our gatherings we have these elements

and we are to know how to deal with them, especially the young around twelve or so. Chapter 7 brings out how conditions may be favourable. Chapter 7 is very extensive, including persons not really Christians, but who are favourable to Christianity. That is important to bear in mind, because God in His government can use such conditions -- favourable conditions. That is, the governments of the United States, or England or Australia, or even heathen countries, are at times found to be favourable in a remarkable way to Christianity. There is not much there, perhaps, but it is simply that God in His government has ordered it to be such. It helps the brethren in going around, even through heathen countries. We are to bear that in mind in regard of chapter 7. And in chapter 8 here, just touching on the period of the assembly, is the idea of virtue going out of Christ to a person who needs help. This woman really refers to assembly material which is to be secured in the same way. And the man with the mind set right -- what an influence in the care of divine interests are men with right minds! God has given us the spirit of power and love and right-mindedness. In chapter 9 we see the upper trend in Luke, these three, Peter, James and John, taken up and honoured in a most remarkable way; it would mean the whole assembly, because the Lord is inaugurating and fitting out the system. The whole system is to be affected by this position on the mount, for they come down to meet the demon below. The idea is what they met after coming down from the mount. It was actually the devil, a child demoniacally affected, one of the most sorrowful things we have to do with. And we have to do with it. The next thing after chapter 9 is the matter of where the Lord is going to proceed. They were to go into every city and place. "Now after these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and

sent them two and two before his face into every city and place where he himself was about to come"(Luke 10:1). Now that gives a wide range of things, because it is every place, every city and place; it is the universal position and the Lord is about to proceed. It is a wide range of things and the Lord is proceeding -- He is not in one place, He is proceeding, moving about. These thirty-five pairs of men are moving about before the Lord, but He is about to come and they know it and therefore they are concerned that these places should be right that the Lord might be free to go about in them.

S.W.P. This is the beneficent sway of grace over men.

J.T. It is ourselves, what we have in our hearts, the magnificent thought of it. That is the throne, not a material throne, but a figure of speech. Not a literal throne, but a figure of something. And that figure is grace and grace in power to enforce its operations.

L.E.S. Would Luke link on with Paul who says to the Corinthians: "Paul, a called apostle of Jesus Christ, by God's will, and Sosthenes the brother, to the assembly of God which is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all that in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both theirs and ours", 1 Corinthians 1:1,2?

J.T. Just so, "both theirs and ours", the universal thing, all brought into it. The Corinthian epistles work this out.

N.B. In regard of these three brothers handling matters, they go together, do they not? Sometimes in our localities one goes and another by himself.

J.T. Better two to go, then there is combined witness if there are two together.

N.B. One brother going and later on another brother going separately.

J.T. This chapter is authoritative in that matter, they go two and two. The apostles are mentioned sometimes two by two and sometimes one by one; it is a question of the context. The context here would mean that two brethren should go together. There is combined witness and they can tell the brethren confidently that this is so. Such and such is so, and you have two witnesses.

L.E.S. The two is a happy matter as binding the levites together in their service. Two and two would save us from clericalism.

J.T. The best examples are Peter and John, Paul and Barnabas, Paul and Timotheus. They are examples of the power of two and two. So here it says two and two.

H.B. This thought of two would be heralds to provide conditions for the Lord coming and being happily there.

J.T. The setting in the chapter is most important -- what the Lord says. The point is, sons of peace. You look for a son of peace. The whole chapter bears on sons of peace, the kind of people they would link up with, which shows that God is working -- for the sons of peace are a result of God's work.

C.C.T. The assembly is in view.

J.T. Yes, that is clear from chapter 8, as speaking of the assembly, in the principle of virtue going out, and operating here as in chapter 9, bringing out what is there. Then the honouring of the three apostles of the Lord and what was to be seen there and their influence on what was below. It shows how the work of God, the influence of heaven, is asserting itself. In chapter 10 these thirty-five pairs of persons go about universally where the Lord is intending to go. Chapter 10 branches out into the precious and important truths of the relations between divine Persons, and our being brought into

them, our names being written in heaven. The incident in chapter 9 shows that the names of the brethren are known up there; and then down here -- the influence of the brethren down here is moral, what kind of people we are, how we behave ourselves.

L.E.S. Would the levitical system link the local position with what is heavenly?

J.T. Heaven is stressed in what is going on here. It is a remarkable scene. These men are coming into it, Moses and Elias -- these are wonderful men coming out of heaven. Christianity is formed of wonderful persons and we want to belong to it and take character from it, to know that we belong to heaven.

A.B.M. Would that serve to adjust a great deal that needs adjustment amongst us?

J.T. We are to think of the power of heaven. We are to know that heaven affects real persons. We know how heaven affects the earth physically. The same is true spiritually -- what power heaven has! And now to go on. Chapter 11 is also very interesting, as to the way things are done by divine Persons. A divine Person comes in here, and things are to be done, and He does them. You learn how things are to be done. If prayer is to be made, a divine Person prays and when asked teaches others. It is a wonderful thing to see the power of prayer in chapter 11, "How much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13). The Holy Spirit is the great point subjectively, because the subjective work is with Him and by Him. It is necessary to have the Holy Spirit to have part in the work at all.

J.K. Would you look for that in any asking their place?

J.T. Certainly I should. How do they speak of things? You can tell the way they speak of things.

C.C.T. People can tell by living with them.

J.T. The basis comes out in chapter 7. It is a question of affection. Is the person, whether he or she, an affectionate person? And if they love, they will love the Lord and the saints too. They do not want for their companionship other than the saints.

L.E.S. It may be a good thing to ask a young person, if he is a brother, to pray. Would you say that?

J.T. If he is young brother, certainly. The word to the young man is, "Youth, ... Wake up", in chapter 7. And he sat up and began to speak. If he can speak at all he should be able to speak to God.

S.W.P. "And her parents were amazed" (Luke 8:56) would indicate they had not followed closely what had taken place in the young person, consequently they say she is dead. We have to understand that we have in our households a lot of potential material, and we should see that the work of God goes forward.

J.T. It is a good thing. We are generally trained to take things too much for granted. We should be amazed at things, because they are wonderful. One of the names of the Lord Himself is 'Wonderful'. Luke 12 is very long, but should be paid attention to, the thirteenth too. The fourteenth is a landmark dealing with the house. In the twelfth it is said, "In those times, the myriads of the crowd being gathered together, so that they trod one on another, he began to say to his disciples first, Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy; but there is nothing covered up which shall not be revealed, nor secret that shall not be known; therefore whatever ye have said in the darkness shall be heard in the light, and what ye have spoken in the ear in chambers shall be proclaimed upon the housetops" Luke 12:1 - 3. That is important, as to what is said in secret and whispered about, even creating hard feelings. So transparency is the important thought here.

J.W.D. I was very struck with what you said about chapter 11, and now transparency is a most important matter and has an important place in the spiritual life of the meetings.

Rem. Hypocrisy may not always be in taking account of another. It may be a hidden matter, a person assuming to be something they are not. "But there is nothing covered up which shall not be revealed" (Luke 12:2).

A.E.J. In each gathering should there not be discernment about persons and matters?

J.T. Just so. In one of our meetings we have been reading about the persons standing upon a sea of glass. You can look around and see everything. Another thing coming out in Luke 12 is godliness. "Fear not those who kill the body and after this have no more that they can do" Luke 12:4. If we have this element, we are not liable to turn aside from persecution, denying the truth -- it is very practical. "Fear him who after he has killed has authority to cast into hell; yea, I say to you, Fear him" Luke 12:5. And then godliness worked out in our weakness and dependence on God. "Fear not therefore, ye are better than many sparrows" Luke 12:7. We are coming to the idea of the value of a Christian, the importance of Christians personally, and their value. Chapter 13 is also very important in reference to what happens abroad, railway accidents or the like, whether they are instances of the government of God or not. They may or may not be. The government of God is inscrutable. Sometimes the point is only that people report that this is a big matter, a great happening in the minds of men. But, God, what is He doing? We have to challenge ourselves as to whether we need to repent. "No, I say to you, but if ye repent not, ye shall all perish in like manner" (Luke 13:5). So in the big happenings in the government of God, including those happening

to us, we are to challenge ourselves as to whether we are going on rightly or whether we need to repent.

A.E.J. They call on every one to repent.

J.T. It is just the voice of God which is speaking. These men say these are terrible happenings involving so many. God is speaking in it all, and thus the wonderful thing is that the testimony of grace can go on.

C.C.T. The woman with the spirit of infirmity was able to glorify God.

J.T. She had been bound by Satan for eighteen years, thus bringing in the need of remembering things that have happened.

H.B. The woman said to the prophet, "What have I to do with thee, O thou man of God? Art thou come to me to call mine iniquity to remembrance ... ?" (1 Kings 17:18).

J.T. Sometimes it is better for them to be remembered. God has in mind their removal. He says, "Their sins and iniquities will I remember no more" (Hebrews 10:17). There are certain things which do not need to be disclosed or confessed, but others have to be dealt with.

C.C.T. The Lord addressed the woman, saying, "Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity" (Luke 13:12). She was made straight immediately and she glorified God.

J.T. So the Samaritan woman is not addressed by the Lord as "Woman" until the time of her being exposed; the Prophet exposed her. The Lord says, "Woman". It is a direct word to her; it refers to humanity according to God.

A.B.M. Would you say grace reigning through righteousness is the basis of repentance?

J.T. It is, only repentance springing from love. She loved much because she was forgiven much. We shall see more in relation to it in our last chapter because repentance and remission of sins is to be

preached. Now coming to chapter 14, we read in verse 7, "And he spoke a parable to those that were invited, remarking how they chose out the first places, saying to them, When thou art invited by any one to a wedding, do not lay thyself down in the first place at table". The lesson here is humility; there is a great lack of it. Peter says, "Bind on humility", and "humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God", 1 Peter 5:5,6.

L.E.S. Under grace the whole man is morally changed. The texture is changed. This chapter would enter into our public relations. Beginning at the scripture we started from in the consideration of grace, the work of God would have in mind that the whole moral texture would be changed.

J.T. Yes, the whole man, not simply one thing put right, but the whole man is put right -- the man is healed. There needs to be humility particularly.

C.C.T. We have no thought here of the wedding garment, it is rather the place at table.

J.T. "When thou art invited by any one to a wedding, do not lay thyself down in the first place at table, lest perhaps a more honourable than thou be invited by him, and he who invited thee and him come and say to thee, Give place to this man, and then thou begin with shame to take the last place. But when thou hast been invited, go and put thyself down in the last place, that when he who has invited thee comes, he may say to thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have honour before all that are lying at table with thee; for every one that exalts himself shall be abased, and he that abases himself shall be exalted". This parable is the outcome of the case of the dropsical man in the beginning of our chapter. Dropsy is a disease which had a tendency to inflate, and we are prone to it, because of what we think we have in the knowledge of things, of the Scriptures, of the light. We may have the dropsy, in

spite of our great knowledge. In fact, it might be through having that knowledge that we have dropsy. We have to learn not to make allowance for it.

J.K. Why does it say, "When thou art invited by any one to a wedding"?

J.T. Well, I believe it is a festive occasion, it is brought up here parabolically because much feeling, and right feeling, enters into weddings. The question is whether we are going to allow the feelings to inflate us, to turn the wedding into a time of inflation. Our ideas in Christianity are to be taken from the assembly and not from the world. Marriage is a time of display in the world -- unequalled display -- the clothes that are worn. We ought to discern these things and put away what is worldly. Women's clothes cause a great commotion in the business world -- they form a great place in commerce. The money spent on wedding garments is very great. We have to understand what is here to deflate us. The Lord says, 'Do not take the first place', do not have personal distinction in mind. Learn not to be worldly; you are in fellowship and your clothing is to denote that. Do not go in for what surrounds a worldly bride and the like.

A.G.V. Grace would produce this humility.

J.T. It is the calculated way to work the thing out. Luke is a methodical man, a physician, a trained man. He is taken up by heaven to write two remarkable treatises, ending with Paul in prison.

J.W.D. Paul speaks of himself as "the least of the apostles" (1 Corinthians 15:9), and "less than the least of all saints" (Ephesians 3:8). A man trained in the divine system should be marked by the greatest humility. It is impossible in connection with the first man.

J.T. I think this chapter bears that out. The dropsical man appears at the beginning. "And behold, there was a certain dropsical man before him. And Jesus answering spoke unto the doctors of

the law and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath? But they were silent. And taking him he healed him and let him go" Luke 14:2 - 4. Notice that. He can be trusted, a man that can be let go. He could be trusted; it was all right to let him go, like Lazarus. "And answering he said to them. Of which of you shall an ass or ox fall into a well, that he does not straightway pull him up on the sabbath day? And they were not able to answer him to these things" Luke 14:5,6. So the Lord has the last word.

N.B. What would you think of going to a wedding of those not in fellowship?

J.T. I would not go. You would not want to go to an ungodly wedding, nor a funeral either. It is worth our notice at this point. Many say, Well what harm is there in it? Well, what good is in it? The Lord says, Let the dead bury their dead. And also, God is not the God of the dead. He makes a difference.

C.C.T. With relatives, too.

J.T. Yes. There are differences, of course, for the Lord attended a wedding in Cana of Galilee.

A.E.J. You would not hesitate to go to a wedding where the bride puts on the apparel which Peter speaks of.

J.T. The hidden Man of the heart. I would not, I would seek to be there. The first parable here relates to humanity, but the Lord is leading up to more than that. "And one of those that were lying at table with them, hearing these things, said to him, Blessed is he who shall eat bread in the kingdom of God" Luke 14:15. That is something, a remark that you can build something on. It is really something like we have -- young men make remarks and we work the truth out of them, make something out of them. So the Lord says, "A certain man made a great supper and invited many. And he sent his bondman at the hour of supper to say to those who were

invited, Come, for already all things are ready. And all began, without exception, to excuse themselves" Luke 14:16 - 18. Now this parable is evidently alluding to the beginning of Christianity, to an ordered condition of things in which men are satisfied with themselves, such as were in judaism. They are satisfied with themselves; they can get along without the Lord, without the gospel. How much there is around of that. People can get along with this means or another means.

J.K. Would it be right to say that legitimate things might turn us to Egypt where we are likely to be overcome?

J.T. That is so. That is what you get here. But what does the Lord Himself say? "Then the master of the house, in anger" Luke 14:21. These things seem to be very legitimate, but the Lord is angry about it. They are resisting the master in his anger. It is not so severe as Matthew -- they are called murderers and are destroyed, which is serious. But Luke modifies things, yet the anger is there. The psalm says, "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish in the way, though his anger burn but a little", Psalm 2:12. These excuses are all ordinary matters. You may say. Why should he not attend to his oxen, attend to his wife, and so on, but the anger of the Lord is seen. Who is going to attend to Him? How is this anger going to be appeased?

H.B. Numbers 32 speaks of Jehovah's anger. Is it the same principle?

J.T. Quite so. These excuses are common amongst such people. You understand they have some link with God, and you ask them to go to a meeting for prophetic ministry, they cannot go. They have that place or the other place to go to, they excuse themselves. That should not be found amongst ourselves. We have been given the light of the Scripture, "not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the custom is with some",

(Hebrews 10:25). It has become the manner of some, which is to be deplored.

S.W.P. "Every scripture is divinely inspired, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be complete, fully fitted to every good work", (2 Timothy 3:16,17). All these things are to help through grace in that light.

L.E.S. The glory of the throne of grace is based upon the idea of sacrifice. It is more blessed to give than to receive.

J.T. Another thing here is that the master of the house accepts the degradation of the persons he is obliged to ask. "Then the master of the house, in anger, said to his bondman, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring here the poor and crippled and lame and blind. And the bondman said, Sir, it is done as thou hast commanded, and there is still room" (Luke 14:21,22). The Lord is brought into the thing beautifully. How He is descending, accepting the reproach attached to the persons whom He is inviting. But there is still room and therefore the Lord does not stop, He says, "And the lord said to the bondman, Go out into the ways and fences and compel to come in, that my house may be filled"(Luke 14:23). The leading thought in this section comes in here -- "that my house may be filled" (Luke 14:23). It is not here the great house as in 2 Timothy, it is "my house". How the Lord regards His people, and that house must be filled. Really meaning that He is going to have suitable persons there; His own selection. Outwardly it may involve reproach to Him, for the apostle says, "For consider your calling, brethren, that there are not many wise according to flesh, not many powerful, not many high-born", (1 Corinthians 1:26). That is to say, reproach in that sense is attached to us as brethren, but at the same time they are such as the Lord would have. You can understand it must

be so; being God, He is entitled to have whom He will, and to give the very best, the most honoured distinctions, for this is a question of sonship, and you cannot have anything greater in the house.

C.C.T. Is the house the full thought of God's joy fulfilled?

J.T. Exactly. He is not ashamed of these persons who are brought in from the highways and hedges. We know God in accepting us has in mind sonship and redemption, so He has the very best persons in the universe.

H.B. Would Acts 10 suggest persons coming from the gentile nations? Paul says to the Colossians, "Christ in you".

J.T. Peter would make excuses about them. He did not care about these people represented in the beasts, and creeping things, but Peter is to go on. Everyone is to come to it. The house is to be filled with God's own selection; "he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world", (Ephesians 1:4).

A.D. Is the contrast seen in the close of the previous chapter where the Lord says, "Behold, your house is left unto you" Luke 13:35.

J.T. Just so, but God's house is not left like that. I think we might end with that -- the idea of the house -- because it is a question of the place of affection -- the family place.

THE THRONE OF GRACE (4)

Luke 15:11 - 32; Luke 16:1 - 13

J.T. It is thought that these chapters relative to the house embrace particularly the subject before us; that is the subject of grace, peculiarly chapter 15 -- the excess of grace. And then it is thought as having this in mind to note the relation of money or wealth to this subject, hence chapter 16 -- how money may be used to prepare for the future. What we have so far, relates to the present, what is current in this dispensation, but the verses read in chapter 16 relate to the future. The brethren will discern the stress laid in chapter 15 on the value of repentance and salvation. We have already noted how with many the idea of value is small as applied, and these chapters bring out the importance of certain values or commodities. Another thing that enters into this section is discipleship as bearing on our subject; that is, bearing on grace. For while what is implied in the throne of grace is gratuitous, yet there is in the end of chapter 14 the idea of discipleship. "And great crowds went with him; and, turning round, he said to them. If any man come to me, and shall not hate his own father and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, yea, and his own life too, he cannot be my disciple; and whoever does not carry his cross and come after me cannot be my disciple" Luke 14:25,26. It seems as if that should be taken note of as we proceed -- discipleship.

L.E.S. Would you say the operation of grace in our hearts works out in repentance and that in view of discipleship?

J.T. I thought of that particularly in chapter 15. The value of repentance comes in immediately after this matter of discipleship at the close of chapter 14. Certain things render discipleship, as applicable to

certain ones, impossible, for it is said, "He cannot be my disciple" Luke 14:26.

S.W.P. What is covered in your thought by repentance?

J.T. Well, it is a change of mind as to certain things. Hence in chapter 15:7 it is said, "I say unto you, that thus there shall be joy in heaven for one repenting sinner, more than for ninety and nine righteous who have no need of repentance" Luke 15:7. And again in verse 10, "Thus, I say unto you, there is joy before the angels of God for one repenting sinner" Luke 15:10. It comes under the heading of values -- how heaven values repentance. It is not a thing by itself, but is applied to a sinner, a repenting sinner. What a repenting sinner is, the value of a repenting sinner to heaven.

J.K. What is your thought of putting discipleship first before the repenting?

J.T. I brought it in in the order in which it is found in Scripture, because in chapter 14 where the house being filled is specially stressed, there were crowds, as it says, "And great crowds went with him" Luke 14:25. The idea of discipleship is brought in to meet the crowd situation. That is to be diminished, and the way of diminishing it is to bring in what it costs to be a disciple and most have not enough to pay what it costs. The thing is very severe and exacting, namely: "If any man come to me, and shall not hate his own father and mother, and wife and children, and brothers, and sisters, yea, and his own life too, he cannot be my disciple" Luke 14:26. We have to face that -- what it means.

C.C.T. So that discipleship is a costly matter. They are to sit down and count the cost of hating even your own life.

J.T. The severest test would be the hating of one's own life. It is a question of bringing down the number, and the way it is done is by increasing the

charge, so that it is too high, people cannot pay it. The next suggestion is that of building a tower, "For which of you, desirous of building a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, if he have what is needed to complete it; in order that, having laid the foundation of it, and not being able to finish it, all who see it do not begin to mock at him, saying, This man began to build and was not able to finish?" Luke 14:28 - 30 And then the warfare. "Or what king, going on his way to engage in war with another king, does not, sitting down first, take counsel whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him coming against him with twenty thousand? and if not, while he is yet far off, having sent an embassy, he asks for terms of peace. Thus then every one of you who forsakes not all that is his own cannot be my disciple Luke 14:31 - 33". The word given is very striking and how many it shuts out, reducing the numbers.

S.W.P. A disciple has a good sense of valuation.

J.T. Quite so.

A.B.M. Why is it so severe here in comparison to the general character of Luke's writing - the grace character?

J.T. I think the Lord is putting it so severely so that we might face the matter and see that we do not trifle with Christianity and treat it lightly. We have been touching a little on values -- whether I come to the meetings or not, whether I be a Christian or not, whether I want to or not, it is just optional, but the Lord hates that with us.

L.E.S. All this shows the need of a repenting spirit.

J.T. I thought that. The person is in mind. It is not the thing by itself, but the person who is marked by it, the repenting sinner. That kind of person -- a sinner who is repenting, not simply one who has repented, but one who is repenting all the time, it is to be a characteristic matter.

N.B. Speaking of the cost, if one has not the cost, how is it obtained?

J.T. Well, that raises the whole question as to this section: whether we have the means. It raises the whole question as to the section which involves the Spirit. The Spirit answers to all these things. It is a question of the Spirit, a characteristic matter in all these demands. The Spirit is a divine Person, He is God, and has the means for meeting these demands. Discipleship is the great point in the gospel. For instance in Matthew the Lord says, Have you understood all these things? And they say, Yea, Lord. And He says, "For this reason every scribe discipled" (discipled is the word) "to the kingdom of the heavens is like a man that is a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old", Matthew 13:52. That is he is a householder and able to bring out of his treasure. He has the means, he is a man of wealth; but as to the kind of things he has, it is what is new first and then what is old.

A.B.M. In John 6 we read that many walked no more with Him because of what He said to them. Would that indicate they were not putting a proper value on the position?

J.T. Just so. They do not value being followers of Christ. Many are seen in Luke 14 -- it implies great many at first. Great crowds of would-be disciples, but the Lord says, 'That is not enough. It is not enough that you want to be a follower of Mine, but the question is. How do you regard others? Are others put before Me, or am I put before others in your valuation?'. "And great crowds went with him; and turning round, he said to them, If any man come to me, and shall not hate his own father and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, yea, and his own life too, he cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:25,26). The price is high for most.

Rem. Moses counted the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt.

J.T. Quite so. He valued the reproach of Christ as greater riches. That is the idea here. You value being a disciple of the Lord Jesus. He is first and last with you.

L.E.S. The reason of the matter at Corinth was because the state of a "repenting sinner" was lacking with them; it accounted for the state that existed there.

J.T. Yes. Take the instance when the Greeks would come up to see Jesus. They were not seeking to be disciples of Jesus. Greece is famed for persons who are leaders, whether of thought or feats. Greece is famed for them. And so it was at Corinth where the apostle says, 'I hear there are divisions, schools of opinion among you'. That is characteristic of the Greeks -- schools of thought -- they were saying one was of Paul, one of Apollos, and one of Christ. They were giving Christ a place with the others. He is absolutely, and uniquely alone. He is to be everything to us. Hence the apostle deals with the whole matter of schools of opinion. Where we have special friends, special brethren, special likes, we are in danger of putting them in the place of Christ.

J.W.D. What is the link between the Lord Jesus and the disciple? Is it teaching?

J.T. The word 'disciple' would give the thought. That you regard Him as pre-eminent, resulting from His teaching. Teaching is most important in Christianity. It is said of the three thousand that were converted at Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, that they persevered in the apostles' teaching, showing that the teaching was the prime thought. And thus it is today, in what we are going on with. They persevered in the apostles' teaching, and that, of course, implied Christ's teaching, for they were representative of Christ.

C.C.T. Will you say a word in regard of 'hate' in chapter 14.

J.T. Well, it has to be understood in its setting. It is very plain here, hating his own father, then mother, then wife and children and then brothers and sisters and then his own life. It certainly is severe. It is a test. Can one go on? The word should be applied. We certainly have to look into the matter. It is a prime matter with the Lord in His teaching. It is a question of Christ's teaching.

Rem. It was a great test to the Jews at Pentecost.

J.T. But they stood the test; they persevered, meaning they appreciated the position in their own souls -- in the face of opposition they persevered.

H.B. It is said of Levi in Deuteronomy 33:8: "And of Levi he said. Thy Thummim and thy Urim are for thy godly one, whom thou didst prove at Massah, with whom thou didst strive at the waters of Meribah; who said to his father and to his mother, I see him not, and he acknowledged not his brethren, and knew not his own children; for they have observed thy word, and kept thy covenant. They shall teach Jacob thine ordinances, and Israel thy law".

J.T. A very good connection.

S.W.P. Paul was eighteen months in Corinth teaching the word of God. Was it necessary because of the national characteristics to spend all that time teaching what disciples should be?

J.T. It is a remarkable word. In the next chapter it was a question of teaching the word of the Lord. But in Corinth it was a question of the "word of God". It brings up the whole matter of assembly service and testimony involving whether we are going on with the word of God. Corinth was marked by that. Ephesus is the word of the Lord; the Lord is stressed there. It is the word of God at Corinth -- what God is to us. At Ephesus it is more what

the Lord is to us, the great marital side. Paul ministered in his eighteen months at Corinth the word of God, as if that is the great matter that a young Christian should grow in, his knowledge of God through His word -- the word of God.

J.W.D. Why has the word 'disciples' grown into disuse amongst us? We hardly ever speak of one another as being disciples.

J.T. Why do you not begin to call us disciples?

J.W.D. I am quite interested in this. The word, "he cannot be my disciple", (Luke 14:26) may not mean very much today in the way of exercise with us.

J.T. That is a good question to raise. The scribe in Matthew 13 whom we have already alluded to is said to be discipled into things. A scribe discipled to the kingdom of the heavens; he has become initiated into the idea of the kingdom of the heavens. The chapter is full of mysteries and parables too. And the Lord says, Have you understood all these things? I would say that is a good question. Well, we are talking about grace, but what do we really understand? We have Bible readings here every week, perhaps twice a week. Well, what are we learning? Can we talk intelligently about what we hear at the Bible readings? The one discipled into the kingdom of the heavens, the one who is a householder, he knows. He brings things out of his treasure -- he has things.

A.E.J. Persons that Luke has brought before us previously, who have been responsive to the grace that came from the Lord, are able to estimate the value of discipleship and count the cost.

J.T. Well, that is just what appears here. There is much said in relation to the crowds; of course, we cannot speak much of crowds at the moment for we do not have crowds generally, but at the same time even although we are but a few these matters come up. And if we are asked as to what is taught in the

weekly meetings, the readings, and we cannot say, and yet we say we have excellent meetings, well there is something wrong. The idea of discipleship is not there. The persevering in the teaching is not there.

L.E.S. The Cushite in 2 Samuel 18 stands in contrast to Ahimaaz who could not tell David anything. He could say we had good meetings, but could not tell any particulars. Whereas, the Cushite was under a charge and could tell the king, "Let my lord the king receive good tidings, for Jehovah has avenged thee this day of all them that rose up against thee. And the king said to the Cushite, Is it well with the young man Absalom? And the Cushite said, The enemies of my lord the king, and all that rise against thee for evil, be as that young man", 2 Samuel 18:31 - 33.

J.T. He could tell the king what had happened. That is a good illustration.

H.B. Luke, in the beginning of his gospel, sets forth the principle of being able to relate what had been heard and seen, and he writes with method.

J.T. I thought that. He is heaven's special man to meet the occasion, and refers to those who had been eye-witnesses of the Word. The Word here is the Logos, so the mind of God is set forth by Him. The Lord's very position, here told forth the mind of God, and Luke writes about that. "Eye-witnesses of and attendants on the Word" (Luke 1:2). Luke wrote about it with method. One is impressed with the negativeness of these days; there is a great deal about good meetings; we had a wonderful time, which is more or less true, but what we want to hear is what is said. That is what we want to know. What the brethren get out of meetings, out of special meetings.

C.C.T. In Luke 4 where we began, they heard Him speak, heard the words from His mouth.

J.T. One marvels at that and yet they hated Him and afterwards would have cast Him headlong down the hill on which their city was built. One would impress upon the brethren that the Lord does not like this great talk about meetings, and what we have had being good, but yet not able to tell what we have tasted on that occasion.

A.B.M. Would all this test us in bringing to light what is inward, the operations of grace within, rather than what we have outwardly in meetings together? The Lord Jesus is to be exclusively the supreme Object of the heart.

J.T. Chapter 9 of this gospel illustrates what you are saying. We get to the acme, to the top of things. Three brothers were brought up there, and two others meet them there from heaven, that is Moses and Elias. Well, what came out? Well, the three brothers went to sleep. Are we like that? Moses and Elias were there. It was not a mere vision; the actual persons were there. Moses and Elias were there, and they were speaking to the Lord Jesus, speaking to Him about His decease which He should accomplish at Jerusalem. Well, what about Peter, and John and James -- what can they tell? They cannot tell anything really. They would not be able to give an account of what happened. The happening was what was in the minds of Moses and Elias, His decease, or exodus, which He, Christ, should accomplish at Jerusalem, that is to say, His death. That is what they were talking about. That is affecting! Well now, the test is all that comes out in chapter 10. Mary and Martha complete the chapter, and it is said that Mary was sitting at the Lord's feet and hearing what He was saying. Now that is the point in this gospel -- that we sit there - and what has been alluded to is, "This is my beloved Son; hear him" (Luke 9:35). That was the principle that came out on the mount of transfiguration. The great

principle to rule in the new order of things, that Christ was to be heard, not Paul or Cephas or any one, but Christ. Hear Him . And so I was saying that this matter of discipleship -- this matter of excellent and good meetings, and travelling long distances to get to the meetings, and taking risks as to not being able to get back, what enters into all that is that you are going to hear about Him, what He is saying and what He is teaching. Christianity is a real thing and emanates from Christ; it is not a mere society, but it is a heavenly matter, and Christ is expounding things to us. He is the Word. He not only relates it, but brings it out in you in life. And we are sitting down -- we are here for three-days' meetings. Well, the point is whether we have something from them that we can speak to others about, and show we are characterised by it. That is what is in the mind of the Lord here in discipleship.

J.G.V. Peter speaks of that occasion afterwards.

J.T. Showing the value of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit became a known Person by Peter. He never, according to Scripture, speaks of the Son of God in his ministry until he is putting off his tabernacle. But then, speaking of the Lord Jesus, he says, "For we have not made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, following cleverly imagined fables, but having been eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, such a voice being uttered to him by the excellent glory: This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight; and this voice we heard uttered from heaven, being with him on the holy mountain", 2 Peter 1:16 - 18.

A.D. Does this exercise which the Lord raises as to discipleship, test us as to separation?

J.T. Well, just so. And how much we make of natural relations. Is Christ more than all relations, even your wife and your children? If you look at it

in the full sense, there is nothing else but Christianity. Everything else is going to pass away. But the Lord says, "My words shall not pass away" (Luke 21:33). We want to keep that. Therefore the Lord is saying, 'Me first', if you would be My disciple, and a real Person who knows what I am saying, then I am helping you to be characterised by it. That is the issue.

A.E.J. Are the four daughters of Philip the evangelist examples of such ones as profit by hearing the word? It says they prophesied.

J.T. Just so. They are not called prophetesses, the word is that they prophesied. They did the thing, though not called prophetesses. And, of course, we have meetings for prophecy and they enter into what we are saying. The Lord intends we should be hearers.

H.B. Is the thought of the crowd the number, while the thought of disciple is quality?

J.T. That is what I thought. Hence when they are coming from the mount, the scene of glory being passed, Mark says it is "Jesus alone with themselves" Mark 9:8. Are we ready to go on with Him and be content with Him and no one else? "Jesus alone with themselves" Mark 9:8.

J.W.D. If we do not understand the truth that is coming out, it is not a matter of resisting it, but of judging ourselves. Are we putting anything before the Lord?

J.T. A man's own life is mentioned too: "and his own life too" (Luke 14:26). Hating one's own life. It seems to be a matter that would reduce the numbers. From a natural viewpoint it would be the last thing to do. And yet it is necessary; Christianity calls for it.

C.C.T. What would you say is generally the cause where brethren are tested in hating their own lives? Is it that so many are taken up with work?

J.T. Top salaries and the like. That brings up the next point and that is the matter of money, and

what use we make of it. There is discipleship in chapter 14 and we have dealt with repentance in chapter 15, not repentance in the abstract, but repenting persons, persons marked by repentance which goes on all the time. We are coming to this matter of the prodigal. It is Christianity effected through the gospel on the highest possible level. God has graciously restored this level and we have part in it. The prodigal has a great place in it, and perhaps more in an evangelical sense, it reduces the circle evangelically, for it is the high level of Christianity which is in mind, so the prodigal comes back to his father. He tells us what went on in these verses: "And after not many days the younger son gathering all together went away into a country a long way off, and there dissipated his property, living in debauchery. But when he had spent all there arose a violent famine throughout that country, and he began to be in want. And he went and joined himself to one of the citizens of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. And he longed to fill his belly with the husks which the swine were eating; and no one gave to him. And coming to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have abundance of bread, and I perish here by famine. I will rise up and go to my father, and I will say to him". Now we have to remember that we are reading a parable, but the parable speaks of the father, that is, of God as Father. And it goes on to say, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and before thee; I am no longer worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. And he rose up and went to his own father. But while he was yet a long way off, his father saw him, and was moved with compassion, and ran, and fell upon his neck, and covered him with kisses. And the son said to him. Father, I have sinned against heaven and before thee; I am no

longer worthy to be called thy son. But the father said to his bondmen, Bring out the best robe and clothe him in it, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet; and bring the fatted calf and kill it, and let us eat and make merry: for this my son was dead and has come to life, was lost and has been found. And they began to make merry". We are in the presence of the most wonderful type of Christianity throughout the gospel, and one would confess that one would like to have a true apprehension of it. It is given in this chapter. Christianity is presented in it, and the character of the thing that the believer is brought into, and particularly how he is affected in the sense of repentance. It shows the scope of repentance in his mind, and what should be repented of. You say, Repentance, of course, is repentance, but he says, "I have sinned against heaven and before thee". We have not had that yet, and what sinning against heaven means.

Rem. He does not just say these things in his heart as a result of exercise but he rose up and went to his father. The father does not move until the son moves.

J.T. Quite so. But when he was a long way off the father saw him. The son does not run, but the father ran. Touching matter!

J.K. The son goes through all these exercises in an intelligent way.

J.T. How has he sinned against heaven? Why does he not put his father first? "I have sinned against heaven and before thee". I believe, that it is the gentile that is in mind. It is the great product in certain parts of the earth which is in mind and we are in it. God has reserved this country to meet the food crisis, for humanity. I believe the prodigal had that in mind, he had been sinning against that -- heaven's provision for humanity.

S.W.P. Does the sense of proper valuations, as we have been having it, come in in the thought of sinning against heaven?

J.T. Yes, the heavens are set up according to what we had yesterday in regard of seedtime and harvest. God has ordered that that is to continue all the days of the earth. I believe that what God is saying to humanity is in that which the heavens have contributed -- the evidence of it in the great wealth of the earth, and we are in it. But are we affected by it? There is the matter of giving thanks to God. You hardly ever notice people in a restaurant stopping to give thanks to God for their food. The prodigal in the far country had never given God thanks for his food.

S.W.P. Do we get the thought of what is providential in the heavens?

J.T. Providence is a good word. People use it. The prodigal was quite intelligent in saying, "I have sinned against heaven", meaning that he had sinned against God, because God is in heaven. At the same time the heavens God has made have a bearing on the earth.

J.W.D. Is there a kind of representative repentance, and should we take it on? Especially we, of this great country with all its super-abundance. We are part of it. We are not only to repent for ourselves in that way, but in a general sense to cover the whole situation with the spirit of repentance.

J.T. We are to be thankful to God. We are made priests unto God and unto Christ and in a large measure the priest's ministry is the giving of thanks, to give thanks. It is summed up in 1 Timothy 2:1,2 "I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings be made for all men; for kings and all that are in dignity, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all piety and gravity". And then 1 Timothy 4:1 - 5, "But the Spirit

speaks expressly, that in latter times some shall apostatise from the faith, giving their mind to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons speaking lies in hypocrisy, cauterised as to their own conscience, forbidding to marry, bidding to abstain from meats which God has created for receiving with thanksgiving for them who are faithful and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, being received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by God's word and freely addressing him". Now all that is of prime importance in this particular period of our service, and this country lends itself to this very thing. There is wonderful wealth and it is always so, for God intended it to be in view of the crisis in the history of humanity that the food supply is here. Well, what is the result for God from it? So the word in 1 Timothy 4:3 is brought in expressly to bring out this matter of thanksgiving -- "which God has created for receiving with thanksgiving for them who are faithful and know the truth". That is to say, those of us who know the truth and are faithful will be marked by thanksgiving. It is a time of thanksgiving for this great matter of food that is so scarce. The whole world is calling for it, needing it and waiting for it. But who are giving thanks for it? The priests will give thanks; and we are made unto God priests. The question is, How much thanksgiving is there?

L.E.S. Are you suggesting that means have been prepared to make room for greater scope of priestly feelings and exercises?

J.T. That is just it. The wonderful way that God has come in, is intended to affect people. The whole human race is benefiting from divine intervention in connection with the supply of food, and thanks is to be given to God for it. We are to have part in thanksgiving, in the service of thanksgiving to God. The prodigal recognises it, he says, "Father, I have

sinned against heaven and before thee; I am no longer worthy to be called thy son". God is looking for his sense of unworthiness to be called son, and yet he is called son. How can he be called son? God has recovered His son, but recovered him in thanksgiving.

C.C.T. So that this would have a direct bearing on us.

J.T. In this country hardly any of the brethren have suffered through the terrible war -- in Europe a lot of our brethren have. What is God getting out of it? Are we acting as priests to God, genuine priests who act in His interests in humanity? It is a question of His priests because God is committing Himself to the priests and the priests' lips keep knowledge. These things are to be carried, the service belongs to the priests. How does this affect us, and how much of the prodigal character is there with us? This is the higher point of Christianity in the gospel as it is presented in this wonderful period. The Father is presented, and each one is in direct relation with Him. And the happy conditions of Christianity set up here are to continue. "And they began to make merry". God is saying that is what He is taken up with -- His delight in the returning prodigal. It had already begun. He has committed Himself to the priests. Persons who know and love Him and are ready to talk of Him and His love.

S.W.P. Melchisedec, King of Salem, brought out bread and wine and blessed Abram. "And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the Most High God, possessor of heavens and earth" (Genesis 14:19). Does that link the possessor of the heavens and earth, and the bread and wine -- food available, and the priest?

J.T. The allusion to Genesis 14 is very beautiful, we get the principle with Abram there, and Abram is supported by it. Abram was a real son.

C.C.T. Is the heavenly clothing suggested in the best robe?

J.T. That comes in in this chapter. We have a magnificent representation of the gospel here, and how it is to go on -- "they began to make merry". The Father is in it.

J.W.D. You said elsewhere that the features of this clothing speak of the features of Christ in heaven. What relation has that with the thought of heaven and material superabundance? You were stressing material superabundance and priestly thanksgiving; what relation has this thought of being clothed with Christ as belonging to heaven with that?

J.T. Well, I thought it proceeded with our chapter. In 1 Timothy Paul is touching on it, and here it goes on, "They began to make merry". And then the elder brother, the elder son is not able to enter into the house of God where there is thanksgiving, but would remain outside. "And his elder son was in the field; and as, coming up, he drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing. And having called one of the servants, he inquired what these things might be. And he said to him, Thy brother is come, and thy father has killed the fatted calf because he has received him safe and well. But he became angry and would not go in. And his father went out and besought him". Wonderful display of grace! "But he answering said to his father, Behold, so many years I serve thee, and never have I transgressed a commandment of thine; and to me hast thou never given a kid that I might make merry with my friends: but when this thy son, who has devoured thy substance with harlots, is come, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. But he said to him, Child, thou art ever with me, and all that is mine is thine. But it was right to make merry and rejoice, because this thy brother was dead and has come to life again, and was lost and has been found". Now I think the

dear brethren will do well, if we can together face this matter -- the father is not quarrelling with the elder brother, he is not raising the question as to him. He is so pre-occupied with what is going on, what we are carrying on. The father says, I am going on with this. The merriment has begun and the Father is in the thing, and He is not turning aside to quarrel with persons who complain. He is so occupied with the greatness of the moment, with the recovery of his son. "This my son". He recognises him as his son, the elder brother as child - a very small thought as compared with the greatness of sonship. This clothing of heaven -- the best robe brought out. It would really cover what we had this morning -- the house is filled with such as the Master would have; and so this chapter pursues the principles of greatness and grandeur in much of the external side of it. The prodigal is really symbolical of Christianity -- the real thought of Christianity. What God has in His mind for all prodigals, for all the saints, is the music and dancing. So we have come to the prime thought -- not simply everlasting life but sonship in the house. The Father wants sons, and can we get that thought into our souls, and have it before us, and look into what Christianity really is?

S.W.P. What sonship really is. This best robe and ring and shoes. Are they for display or for the house -- what is in the house?

J.T. This is more an inside scene. The father wants the elder brother to come in, to be in keeping with what is going on, but he will not go in, and the father is not stopping to quarrel with that. For God has enough to go on with. Christianity in Christ is enough for God. Sonship is the point. The Father brings it out at this very point, "For this my son was dead and has come to life, was lost and has been found".

J.K. Why does he say to the elder son: "This thy brother"?

J.T. It is the end of the Jews and the beginning of Christianity that is in mind, the full thought of Christianity.

L.E.S. Is there a link with John 17:1? "These things Jesus spoke, and lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee".

J.T. Just so, and the Lord Himself says, "And the glory which thou hast given me I have given them" John 17:22. It was the glory of divine Persons in verse 5, but in verse 22 it is a given glory and Jesus has given us glory, involving the prodigal's best robe. "And the glory which thou hast given me I have given them" John 17:22. One hopes the brethren are getting this. God has brought in Christianity, and it is enough for Him. He is giving sonship to the gentiles, the nations, and the knowledge of what He has in Christ, sonship in Christ. Christianity is enough for God.

THE THRONE OF GRACE (5)

Luke 24:36 - 53

J.T. We read yesterday a section of chapter 16 which we did not touch afterwards. It refers to having money. We read there of the unrighteous mammon, and how it may be turned into account now with a view to the future. We may be helped to dwell a little on that passage because of the place money has acquired, the place it has acquired generally in the world through the prominence of high wages, and especially how it has affected the brethren, at times interfering even with the service of God. The passage will be remembered by the brethren as what is called the parable of the unjust steward. The Lord sees fit to enter into this matter immediately after what has taken place in chapter 15. It is said, "There was a certain rich man who had a steward, and he was accused to him as wasting his goods. And having called him, he said to him, What is this that I hear of thee? give the reckoning of thy stewardship, for thou canst be no longer steward. And the steward said within himself, What shall I do; for my lord is taking the stewardship from me? I am not able to dig; I am ashamed to beg. I know what I will do, that when I shall have been removed from the stewardship I may be received into their houses. And having called to him each one of the debtors of his own lord, he said to the first, How much owest thou to my lord? And he said, A hundred baths of oil. And he said to him. Take thy writing and sit down quickly and write fifty. Then he said to another, And thou, how much dost thou owe? And he said, A hundred cors of wheat. And he says to him, Take thy writing and write eighty. And the lord praised the unrighteous steward because he had done prudently" Luke 16:1 - 8. Notice

the word 'praised'. And then we get the Lord's remarks. "For the sons of this world are, for their own generation, more prudent than the sons of light. And I say to you. Make to yourselves friends with the mammon of unrighteousness, that when it fails ye may be received into the eternal tabernacles" Luke 16:8,9. And then again He says, "He that is faithful in the least is faithful also in much; and he that is unrighteous in the least is unrighteous also in much. If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who shall entrust to you the true? and if ye have not been faithful in that which is another's, who shall give to you your own? No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and will love the other, or he will cleave to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon" Luke 16:10 - 13. So that we are clearly confronted by the problem of money and how it affects the service of God. The fact is that if it rules us we cannot serve God. Many are disqualified, and others are becoming disqualified, because of the temptation to ignore, or pass by, the service of God, for the sake of gain -- high wages. It is a matter the Lord would lay upon us so as to save us.

S.W.P. You mean wages taken on account of extra time. The people of God are in abnormal conditions just now, and special demands may be made upon our time. Is your thought that as an employee I should seek to preserve myself from undue demands upon my time above normal conditions?

J.T. That is what is in mind. The Lord deliberately uses words to belittle money. The thought runs through the chapter into the well-known parable of the rich man and Lazarus; it is the same line of thought. The parable shows how wealth may lead to hades, or torment -- sorrowful thought that money may lead in that direction.

L.E.S. Do you not feel that we need to be honest in the facing of a matter like this, because so many bring in the idea of the requirements of the government, instead of facing the necessity of bringing out our motives, and putting them before God, as to whether they are pure, or tainted by the principle of vanity?

J.T. You are struck by the government requirements, the urgency of them. How it enters into the calculations of the government that they demand a citizen to give up his time, whatever he may regard as his pleasure, for the sake of the government's requirements or needs, but the temptation is that there is large money at stake. When it becomes a question of wages, the temptation of larger wages especially for working overtime, we are tempted to take it on and deny God His rights.

J.K. To seek first the kingdom of God would be a help.

J.T. Well, godliness would come into that. Chapter 12 involves the principle of godliness: "But seek his kingdom, and all these things shall be added to you", Luke 12:31. We may be set for these things, but when it comes to high wages we are affected, and may simply ignore that we have an eye on the high wages and are tempted to pass by the service of God.

C.C.T. "Let your conversation be without love of money, satisfied with your present circumstances; for he has said, I will not leave thee, neither will I forsake thee", Hebrews 13:5.

J.T. Quite so. This is a matter of overtime, and the temptation attached to it. The demands by the authorities to secure their ends are bowed to, whereas God is neglected, the service of God neglected. It reminds us of the end of Malachi, "Will a man rob God?" Malachi 3:8.

A.B.M. Have you in mind by robbing God, that some for higher wages take themselves out of their normal occupations and encroach upon the Lord's time by working on the Lord's day?

J.T. The Lord has been pleased to take certain time, not all time, not all the days of the week. He has been pleased to take the day that the Spirit of God calls the Lord's day, and He certainly is jealous as to that, and He has first right to it. The first day of the week is slightly different in meaning, but still carries on the same idea because it is the same day; it involves the same day called the Lord's day. The Lord's supper, applying to the same day, raises the question of the Lord's rights. Take the matter of higher wages being paid on that day, and the premium which is put upon that day by men. Nevertheless God has made time and the Lord Jesus has a right to do what He pleases, for there was not one thing made that He did not make. In raising the question of the claim He has to one of the days of the week, we must see that He is jealous as to that, as to having it.

A.E.J. Would the tendency for high wages cause men to become like the Pharisees, who were covetous, who went in for all they could get, and so the service of God was set aside.

J.T. Nothing of that ever marked the Lord.

J.W.D. It is a good thing for us to get before the Lord and find out what portion of our time is due to Him. So with money given us; then we would assess things rightly. What portion should I put into the box? What portion of my time should be set aside?

J.T. That is a good point to raise -- it is raised by the apostle Paul. God is pleased to raise the question of wages, and how it affects the service of God. In 1 Corinthians 16:2, the apostle has in mind the contributions of the saints in view of the collection and he says, "On the first of the week let each

of you put by at home, laying up in whatever degree he may have prospered, that there may be no collections when I come". Now the point is, if that would include the Lord's day, or part of the Lord's day at double wages. One wonders how the conscience would be affected, because you are going to use some of the time which is the Lord's, and is to be dedicated to His service.

J.W.D. The primary thought is, what is my valuation of the Lord's things?

J.T. Well, there it is. The first day of the week is a good day to devote part of it to the calculation as to how God has prospered you. The word mentioned there, 'prospered', would take in what you are getting from your regular employer, it hardly alludes to what one may get as a levite which would include the tithes. I think the word 'prospered' alludes to something accruing to one in business, and from that he has to assess his obligations to the Lord's service. He has to assess this on the Lord's day, do it on the Lord's day. That is, you would lay by at home, which would imply that the wife and children are cognisant of what is being done. It is an open matter and clearly you would not leave the Lord out in assessment of that kind.

L.E.S. In remnant times in the Prophets, the matters of the sabbath and the valuation put upon it all enter into the discerning of that day. Does it not have its answer in Christianity?

J.T. I think it does, and the question of our conscience before God. It is not in view to enlarge on this subject, but just to get the touch of it which the passage implies, that is the valuation of money if that is what is in mind; that one may be set in the position to use that to promote something for the future, to purchase that which would stand him in stead for the future, that he may be received into their houses. By extension it is applied by the

passage to the eternal tabernacles, that is what the truth of the gospel involves, that we are to have eternal tabernacles, have part in them, not in the lake of fire, although this is treated of in the latter part of the chapter. Eternal tabernacles, not alluding to the houses of the persons who are debtors, but using the money to the end of buying eternal privileges.

J.G.V. That is what this verse implies? "Make to yourselves friends with the mammon of unrighteousness, that when it fails ye may be received into the eternal tabernacles" Luke 16:9. That is, use money rightly.

J.T. That is how it is dealt with in this chapter. The Lord says in verse 9, "Make to yourselves friends with the mammon of unrighteousness, that when it fails ye may be received into the eternal tabernacles" Luke 16:9. And then He says, "He that is faithful in the least is faithful also in much; and he that is unrighteous in the least is unrighteous also in much. If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who shall entrust to you the true? and if ye have not been faithful in that which is another's, who shall give to you your own? No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and will love the other, or he will cleave to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon" Luke 16:10 - 13. That is the wages we are getting. If we are not faithful in relation to the service of God, who shall entrust to us our own, or the true riches which would mean spiritual things? So we have to face valuation as we have already had it. We are to go in for the best available and acquire that, using the wages we may have to acquire that.

Ques. Who are these debtors, that are in the mind of the Lord, one owing one hundred measures of oil, and so on?

J.T. All this helps to bring out what is in mind to impress us. What is said by the master of the

unrighteous steward helps us. He praises the unrighteous steward because he has done prudently. Whether it is a question of these other persons or not, the simple fact is that he had done prudently in having these persons write, because the object he had in mind was to acquire their friendship, or their houses, in the future when out of the stewardship.

J.W.D. What would be the basis of your calculations to be faithful in material things? What comes before you as the basis?

J.T. Well, we have to see what is said in verse 10, "He that is faithful in the least is faithful also in much" Luke 16:10. If he is not faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who shall entrust to him the true? We say we have the money, we take the wages and these are our own. Now what are we going to do with it? Are we going to be faithful and make the best use of it in promoting divine interests? This is a small matter in itself. Money is a small matter in itself, and it is called the mammon of unrighteousness. It may be used for the things of God in some way, and then the Lord follows on that alluding to one being faithful in much. You may get a gift from the Lord, great increase of spiritual wealth. He is entrusting you with these things, because you are faithful in the least and therefore will be faithful in much, which works out that the present situation requires faithfulness. If it is a question of money you use it rightly in relation to divine interests, making the most of it.

Ques. One that is faithful would realise that it belonged to the Lord and he was only a steward of it. That would greatly affect him in the use of it.

J.T. It should do. The Lord is showing here that there is a way of using it, but He is belittling it. The way you use wealth or money may show that you are entitled to something else, something more. You

may be entitled to a gift and there is need for that -- men who can help the Lord's people spiritually.

A.D. Would Paul's word to Timothy help in this regard? "Enjoin on those rich in the present age not to be high-minded, nor to trust on the uncertainty of riches; but in the God who affords us all things richly for our enjoyment; to do good, to be rich in good works, to be liberal in distributing, disposed to communicate of their substance, laying by for themselves a good foundation for the future, that they may lay hold of what is really life", 1 Timothy 6:17 - 19.

J.T. That is a good passage and works out in this matter of faithfulness in the least. For that is exactly what the faithful have in mind, in using their money. And in due time they may get something more. Everything that the world has may be taken on by others, but they would go in for this -- the ability to serve the saints spiritually perhaps. That is the way the thing works out. Hence the first reference to Paul's service is in regard to material things, because he was one of those that carried something to Jerusalem; something that those who worked would have provided for those who needed it. Those wealthy at Antioch met the matter by giving, giving out of their money, the means they had. There is no doubt that God, in time, used these men in a spiritual way.

Ques. The widow with the two mites recognised that the two mites belonged to the Lord Himself.

J.T. Well, it goes beyond what we have here. The Lord recognises much in her, she gave it to the house of God, and she gave greater than them all, He says.

L.E.S. It is remarkable the great place money has covetously with Ananias and Sapphira, in the beginning of Acts.

J.T. It is remarkable. The beginning of the matter in the Acts is that no one regarded anything

as his own, but under Paul you have another principle; that is, you have what is your own, and you can sacrifice it.

S.W.P. I was just looking at that scripture: "and great grace was upon them all" (Acts 4:33). There was power in the appreciation of the great grace operating in them. If the claims that our employers make upon us are understood in faithfulness, they will be given to see that they cannot have the time that God has a right to.

J.T. We show in this matter of time that it belongs to God. It is very important because He uses time, and of course He lays it upon us too -- we are to redeem the time. We are to redeem it; that is to say, that we are certainly not to use time that is allotted to us by God for use in His service, in order to make money. That is the matter of wages. Are you using the time that belongs to God, and that He has allotted to you for His service, are you using it for that purpose? It becomes a matter of faithfulness. You may be faithful in these things and God will allot to you further things; that is, spiritual wealth. It might be a gift to help the saints.

H.B. It was the much cattle of the two and a half tribes that hindered them moving into the land.

J.T. Just so -- they lived away from Jerusalem, whereas they should have been living in nearness to it.

J.G.V. It is a matter of which master we are serving. What you are speaking of as to the service of God, would not only allude to the Lord's day, but all the time.

J.T. The idea of the mammon is personified. That is one of the things in Luke. It is as if it were a person, and you are under the control of it.

C.C.T. Would the thought of hating come into this scripture in the same line as we had in the previous chapter -- hating the mammon?

J.T. And hating one's own life. We must have a right view of these things, money as well. Well, it was only to touch on that, our main thought now is the throne of grace and how it appears in chapter 24; and how it is linked up at first with the temple. The Lord is seen as risen from amongst the dead. The day of grace is now the peculiar day in question. It is as if the Lord is saying, I am in great haste to get to heaven, because of this matter of grace, this matter of the exercising of grace. It is a question of the administration of it now, involving the throne. So that there is no reference to the forty days in this chapter. Luke in his gospel does not mention the forty days that the Lord was on earth after He arose. It would appear from reading this chapter, as though He arose and He went to heaven, and it is left that way. Of course, the forty days comes in in Acts 1, but this is the way Luke treats of it in this chapter. It would seem as though the Lord is telling us that He is in haste, so to speak, to get to heaven, because He wants to go forward and take up His office involving the administrative side of grace; to make it world-wide in its distribution beginning at Jerusalem. Before we get the actual terms of grace in the chapter, we have what involves the assembly. As if the Lord is saying to us, if we are going in for the gospel which is stressed and stressed greatly, Do not forget the assembly. Hence on the Lord's day we have the assembly privileges and added to these is rightly the gospel service. So that the passage we have just read beginning at verse 36 implies the assembly and the reality of the thing. It is not a parable. They are really conscious of the Lord's death and resurrection and the reality of His humanity in resurrection. It is a real thing, not some figure or form. It is the thing really, not a parable. All these things are mentioned as applicable, and involving the Lord's resurrection, and these

things bear on grace, on the throne of grace, and those who are to have part in the service of grace are essentially of the assembly. That is what is in mind in verse 36.

J.W.D. Do you think that what the servant who stands up to preach the gospel on the Lord's day evening has springs out of the Lord's supper?

J.T. That is what I thought. This chapter contemplates that. In fact it is the dispensation that is in mind. In Acts 1, as has been noted, the forty days are treated of, but this chapter is confined to the elements of the assembly involving the Lord's supper and the reality of the Lord's humanity, the real thing in resurrection, not flesh and blood but flesh and bone. It is a real Man in resurrection, and thus He proceeds to impress them with His reality, the reality of His humanity; and thus it is said there, "And having said this he shewed them his hands and his feet. But while they yet did not believe for joy, and were wondering, he said to them, Have ye anything here to eat? And they gave him part of a broiled fish and of a honeycomb; and he took it and ate before them. And he said to them. These are the words which I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all that is written concerning me in the law of Moses and prophets and psalms must be fulfilled. Then he opened their understanding to understand the scriptures, and said to them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved the Christ to suffer, and to rise from among the dead the third day; and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name to all the nations beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you; but do ye remain in the city till ye be clothed with power from on high". Now I appeal to the brethren, is not this particularly stressed? They are particularly charged with this, by the Lord, as though

to impress His apostles with the matter of grace. That this is what is in His mind, that the assembly service alluded to is preparatory to this matter of the gospel. They were to preach it; we are to preach it.

A.D. Why does He stress that they were to start at Jerusalem?

J.T. That comes in in the detail which is, of course, important too, because it involves the operations of God with His earthly people, and the promise to them. He is not forgetting that. He is keeping it in His mind, but the prime matter is that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all the nations. That is to say, this gracious dispensation is in mind, and this added as to Jerusalem is to show He is not forgetting the peculiar position of the Jews. They are in His mind. But the main thought is this matter of repentance and remission of sins preached to all the nations.

L.E.S. So the apostle in Romans begins with the Jew first and then the gentile.

J.T. Of course, that was dropped afterwards. The kingdom of God was sent to the nations and they received it. God is showing here that He is not forgetting His promises to the nation.

S.W.P. Does Luke speak of the service of the Lord to His disciples as taking them out of their novice character? We get in the Acts, "Men of Galilee" spoken to them by the two men in white clothing and Peter says, "Brethren", literally 'Men, brethren'; it is the thought of real maturity in the matter of grace to be carried forward.

J.T. Very good. I would urge on the dear brethren the words I have chosen to use in regard of this passage -- it is a matter charged upon them. It is a passage involving a real charge from Christ Himself under which they are to serve -- an authoritative passage to set forth what is in the dispensation as governing the gospel of grace, not simply assembly

service, but gospel service. The assembly is the centre of it.

C.C.T. Have you any thought why the understanding of the Scriptures is brought in here?

J.T. It is one of the things to be noted. It says, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all that is written concerning me in the law of Moses and prophets and psalms must be fulfilled. Then he opened their understanding to understand the scriptures". Giving them understanding was part of the thing in His mind. He would arm Himself with these men, and tell them, 'You are to be intelligent, and know the Scriptures, but the great point in My mind is that the gospel should be preached and Jerusalem should be the beginning, the start of what was to be preached to all nations'.

H.B. Is it part of the armour of God? "And shod your feet with the preparation of the glad tidings of peace", (Ephesians 6:15).

J.T. That enters into this. The Lord in Matthew says with less force or emphasis: "Go, bring word to my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there they shall see me" Matthew 28:10. That is not what we get here. He is not making them go to Galilee. He is at Jerusalem Himself. He is ready to go to heaven and tarries on the way to express what is in mind to His disciples. He would say, 'I am employing you; I am with you absolutely; I am going up there to look after this matter. I am going to heaven'. There is the principle of emphasis in it. This chapter has nothing about the forty days, but is full of the gospel of grace.

L.E.S. And we are to preach like this.

J.T. Exactly. What could you get greater? It is one thing to have it and another thing to use it. The apostle says, "For it is woe to me if I should not announce the glad tidings", (1 Corinthians 9:16).

"Cursed be he that doeth the work of Jehovah negligently", (Jeremiah 48:10). That is, negligent in the things of God.

N.B. Is the reference here to the hands and the feet a reference to the service of grace?

J.T. Quite so, Luke refers to it, rather than John. Luke refers to the feet with the woman in chapter 7; she anointed His feet, because they came in grace to her. How she regarded those feet! She wept upon those blessed feet, the feet of a Man, because of affection for Him. She claims Him in that way. If you were to ask about her love, she would say, 'My love is measured by my forgiveness'. She knew the true value of things, she did not simply admire the Lord, but she had affection for Him. She would say, 'He went into death to bear away my sins'. It all brings out the action of grace, and we are to be witnesses -- exponents of it, not failing to preach the gospel; it is our responsibility that we should preach it.

C.C.T. "How beautiful the feet of them that announce glad tidings of peace ... !", (Romans 10:15).

L.E.S. Is the link with the present dispensation that the Lord has been carried up into heaven?

J.T. Heaven is henceforth aglow. All aglow over that One, that is heaven's viewpoint. So the Lord is carried up there. Peter says, "By the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, gone into heaven" 1 Peter 3:21,22. That is his gospel. He alludes to the fact of the Lord being gone.

A.B.M. Applying this to the preaching of the gospel, would it involve all?

J.T. It would involve all, in the sense that the assembly, according to Philippians, had fellowship with the gospel from the start. The whole assembly at Philippi had fellowship with the gospel. Here it is not simply the assembly as such, but the persons who form it, as the apostles, who are witnesses. The

bearing of this is apostolic testimony. That is what made it authoritative as to the gospel.

L.E.S. Would the bearing of this be reflected in our service? I mean this matter of the nations, referring to what is apostolic? You referred to certain sections of the earth. Is there any link here?

J.T. The subsequent history comes out in Paul and, of course, has its force, and there is much to regulate this question of missionary work - whether we should merely go where we like, or whether we should be regulated by Paul, at the present time, as to the geographical principle. I do not know whether what I am saying is clear to the brethren, but I am certain that this is a most important matter, and if we could only see the force of this chapter, and how it is filled up with matter from the Lord in relation to the preaching of grace. "That repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name to all the nations beginning at Jerusalem".

L.E.S. Does this have a peculiar bearing on the last chapter of Revelation? "And let him that is athirst come; he that will, let him take the water of life freely" Revelation 22:17.

J.T. Just so. That fits in very well.

H.B. Is the authoritative side in the beginning of Acts? "Concerning all things which Jesus began both to do and to teach, until that day in which, having by the Holy Spirit charged the apostles whom he had chosen, he was taken up". Acts 1:1,2.

J.T. There the thing is not so forceful because it is recorded there. Here it is a forceful statement, in fact the most forceful you can get as conveying the authority of the Lord Jesus, not authority He has alone, but His apostles and what they were to be.

L.E.S. So the throne of grace is very much in evidence at the present moment.

J.T. That is what we are dealing with in a small way. Men may say we are small and we want to be

small; there is no disadvantage in being small; but we want the government to let us go on with this testimony of grace, because if they do not, we will have to suffer, because it must go on. So the Lord is not saying anything of forty days, but I am going now, that is what is implied. He is ready to go, in haste, as it were, to go to the place of authority, where the power for these things is. "And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you; but do ye remain in the city till ye be clothed with power from on high".

A.E.J. So there was great joy when Peter preached and three thousand souls were converted. They asked Peter what they should do and he told them, "Repent, and be baptised, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for remission of sins, and ye will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit", (Acts 2:38).

J.T. And will receive the promise, the gift of the Holy Spirit. That address of Peter's enters into what we are saying, it is the complement of it. Still keeping the Lord's words before us, let us see what is going to happen. Ten days after the Lord goes up, the Spirit comes down. Let us see what Peter has to say in Acts 2. Peter does not begin to speak until after there are certain complaints and sarcastic remarks. "But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice and spoke forth to them, Men of Judaea, and all ye inhabitants of Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give heed to my words; for these are not full of wine" Acts 2:14,15. Speaking to these cavillers, Peter says, "these are not full of wine, as ye suppose, for it is the third hour of the day; but this is that which was spoken through the prophet Joel, And ... saith God, that I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh" Acts 2:15 - 17. Now that is clearly the end of the chapter in Luke, because the Lord intended them to be powerful. And Peter's position in the second chapter of Acts is central; Peter was prepared for

all that. First Peter. No one else was to be the first preacher. Peter is the first preacher. It was divinely arranged. What a preacher he was! And what a result!

A.E.J. The Lord intended that the preacher be found in power. "And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you; but do ye remain in the city till ye be clothed with power from on high".

J.T. All that is very interesting and instructive as to what the Lord gives them, as we had in the passage read from verses 36 to 53 -- all that is interesting detail. You are speaking of this power that comes from above, and it is called clothing. It is not religious habiliments, or mere religious power such as can be gotten from the seminaries, certain religious power; that is not power at all. The power of the Holy Spirit is called clothing here. These men are clothed with power from above. They are preaching in His name as in power. That is, the power of the whole thing is in Christ's name.

S.W.P. Why does it say, "I send the promise of my Father upon you", not 'to you'?

J.T. It is characteristic of the Luke side. John shows the Lord as being concerned with what is inward -- the affections as inward. But Luke shows what the personality of the preacher is -- not just the preaching but the preacher. He is in power.

J.W.D. The responsibility of the gospel is then a very serious one. We need help as to that. The brethren are taking up the thing with a tendency to apathy. You would get us to see the glory of the position.

J.T. That is what I understand. How can one preach unless he is sent? The idea of being sent is a great word in preaching. You can see in Peter that he was a sent person as he stood up there with the eleven. Just a matter of a dozen men left here

by the Lord and that is this chapter -- the Lord is going on high and leaves them with the responsibility of the gospel.

H.B. In Luke 4 the Lord started out in that way.

J.T. And thus the dispensation is set out as coming in in Luke's first and second treatise. Room is made for Paul to come in, making way for where the preaching is to be; it is the Spirit of God who directs here. The Lord Jesus is dealing with the whole matter in Luke 24. He is going to heaven to be over all things. "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand" (John 3:35). These things are in His hands, this matter of the gospel.

L.E.S. If the brethren who serve in the preaching do it rightly, as we are with God, it will go on.

J.T. I am sure the Lord fully confirms that. The work was begun at Thessalonica -- Paul laboured three sabbath days over the beginning of that particular work. Referring to this matter of each brother preaching, if there are half a dozen brothers and they take it in their turn, that is not what the Lord is at here, nor what Peter was at. Peter stood up with the eleven, all real men on that occasion, but as we saw it is Peter who carries on the preaching. It takes the best man you have. Use the best man you have for the occasion, not just anybody, but the brother who can do it best.

A.B.M. Do you make a selection?

J.T. We make a selection because it is a question of being qualified. Therefore it is said of Philip, "And Philip, going down to a city of Samaria, preached the Christ to them". (Acts 8:5).

A.B.M. The selection involves a sent one -- wisdom enters into it.

J.T. He shows that he is a sent one, because he is sent to do it.

C.C.T. The brother in charge of the gospel in selecting a brother to preach would understand his measure.

J.T. We are forced to use the word 'select' in relation to the brother who is appointed to look after the gospel and the Lord says, I know the conditions under which you have to do things, but this does not affect the primary thoughts of Christianity. Let us leave out for the moment the details of things as they are found today, and go back to the beginning of things as appointed by the Lord.

J.K. The force of it here is that it is a command: "that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name to all nations beginning at Jerusalem". You would say it is a command?

J.T. Well, it is. "That repentance and remission of sins should be preached". If I understand the word 'should' it has the force of a command. It must be done. It is in the Lord's mind that it must go on. Of course we are dealing with the apostles, as we were saying a moment ago, the primary position. Let us leave the details out, which we have to face because of conditions, and go back to the beginning to get our beings impregnated with the thing. What was going on in these days, what heaven was cognisant of, how aglow it was! The Lord opens up what He wants to be done, because it is the inauguration of a great dispensation and it gives the sense that we are stagnant today, because we are not aglow, not affected by it.

L.E.S. The greatness of it is to be seen in that we are empowered from on high. We are not to set out some scripture, in order to present it in the preaching, but to present the gospel of God as occupied with what took place at the beginning.

J.T. Getting the full light of it. Putting on the right clothes. They come from heaven, it is not the best robe, but clothing from on high to preach the

gospel. That is not the best robe, it is the power. The best robe is to wear in the drawing room, so to speak, but the gospel is in mind here, the working principles of it, the workman's clothes.

Ques. Is the anointing in mind here?

J.T. The anointing is in mind. The Lord is seen in that way, as we began with in chapter 4: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach glad tidings to the poor ..." Luke 4:18. Well now, we have the anointing of the apostles. They are anointed. Hence Peter stands up with the eleven, not with the hundred and twenty. The hundred and twenty would have only the sense of being in the assembly. The twelve are anointed to preach.

A.D. What about open-air preaching?

J.T. Well, that is a good point. We started it in New York and a good few went out -- brothers and sisters. No doubt the Lord is pleased with it.

L.E.S. What would you say if we have not any one able to preach or having a gift in regard of the preaching in our localities?

J.T. Then we have to see that we have no one to preach, and we must wait until we get someone. Our prayers come into that. That is the way it stands here.

L.E.S. We do not bring the Lord into these matters sufficiently.

J.T. That is so. I speak feelingly, the Lord would have us ask for help in these matters, be concerned about them.

J.W.D. It is deplorable if there is no gift for the preaching, because the gifts are with the Lord Himself; the Corinthians came behind in no gift.

J.T. That is exactly it. See how the Lord gave an example to His apostles. He spent the whole night in prayer. How He would ask the Father for each one of those apostles: He told Peter that He had prayed for him.

L.E.S. The testimony here in our public position is really the preaching.

J.T. Well, it is. However small it may be, if there is power someone will be converted by it. We hear of one here and there. Elijah put his face between his knees when coming to the final issue, because that involves prayer, praying with prayer. He prayed with prayer for rain and it came. He sent his servant to see what was there, to look out westward towards the Mediterranean, the western world, and he saw a cloud as big as a man's hand. Not much, you say, but it soon came. He sent to Ahab, "Go down, that the pour of rain stop thee not" (1 Kings 18:44).

C.C.T. What about the lifting up of His hands? "And he led them out as far as Bethany, and having lifted up his hands, he blessed them".

J.T. The Lord would say, I want to make you happy, and bring you into the gain of what is in My mind, because it is a happy scene, a happy time; the Lord is just filling it up, an evangelical time. "And having lifted up his hands, he blessed them", having led them out as far as Bethany.

Ques. Is that priestly service?

J.T. That is just so. And all this, dear brethren, rouses Him to act in a spirit of blessing, because Christianity is a period of blessing. Aaron was told what to say when he blessed. "And Jehovah spoke to Moses, saying, Speak unto Aaron and unto his sons, saying, On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel: saying unto them, Jehovah bless thee, and keep thee; Jehovah make his face to shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee; Jehovah lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace" (Numbers 6:22 - 26). And this is the true Aaron lifting up His hands and blessing them. And then it is said, "And it came to pass as he was blessing them, he was separated from them and was carried up into

heaven". The word 'carried' there is remarkable. It shows how much heaven thought of Him. Not the thought of ascending as in John, but here the Lord is carried up into heaven, showing how much heaven thought of Him.

Ques. Did not Zacharias become charged with this in the beginning of Luke?

J.T. He was really a priest in the end. That is what is connected with the gospel, this priestly function. Preachers are happy men. It is the blessed God. It means the happy God -- it is the idea of God as seen in the gospel. The glorious gospel of the blessed God.

J.W.D. "For which cause I put thee in mind to rekindle the gift of God which is in thee by the putting on of my hands", 2 Timothy 1:6. That is connected with the testimony of the Lord in the glad tidings.

J.T. "Rekindle" -- it had got a little bit dim, it had to be rekindled. You have to keep on using a gift; it is given for use, you know.

J.W.D. As we are listening to what is coming out this afternoon there should be rekindling going on, as to the importance of the gospel amongst us. It should have to say to apathy, this going on with the gospel from week to week in an apathetical sort of a way. It is to be preached in power as it was at the beginning.

S.W.P. Luke is the only evangelist that tells us that they returned to Jerusalem with great joy. Is that in keeping with what has been said?

J.T. Very good. Paul has it too, in his first journey: "And the disciples were filled with joy and the Holy Spirit", (Acts 13:52). That is a wonderful chapter full of evangelisation. And the end is the disciples filled with joy, and the Holy Spirit. We cannot say much more, the time is gone, but the word here is, "And it came to pass as he was blessing

them". Notice it is as He was doing it. That is the attitude in which He went into heaven. "He was separated from them and was carried up into heaven. And they, having done him homage, returned to Jerusalem with great joy, and were continually in the temple praising and blessing God". Now it is significant that all this was done at Bethany, not on the Mount of Olives but at Bethany; it was the place of love. Bethany was the place of love. "And he led them out as far as Bethany". So there was the proper sphere there, the sphere in keeping with what was in His mind and they were left behind Him in happy conditions. And they go to the temple at Jerusalem as though they are powerful enough to claim it with this thing. They go to the temple at Jerusalem before the upper room is mentioned.

N.B. What would be the application to us today?

J.T. The brethren are in happy circumstances. We are to be in the local meeting as happy people. The brethren must go along and carry on the idea of the gospel preachings. Carry on the gospel with what is available, the best available. Carry on the gospel in free happy conditions. So that the persons who are listening will say, 'These people have something'.

A.D. It is significant in relation to the joy attached to the gospel what the angel says at the outset: "Fear not, for behold, I announce to you glad tidings of great joy, which shall be to all the people", (Luke 2:10). He evangelises to them.

J.T. Very good. "To all the people; for today a Saviour has been born to you in David's city, who is Christ the Lord" (Luke 2:10,11). And then there is the chorus from heaven, the place He is given up there: "And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good pleasure in men", (Luke 2:13,14)a very significant opening to Luke.

L.E.S. There is a great correspondence with Paul in the end of Acts where it is said, "Be it known to you therefore, that this salvation of God has been sent to the nations; they also will hear it" Acts 28:28. And then the last two verses, "And he remained two whole years in his own hired lodging, and received all who came to him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching the things concerning the Lord Jesus Christ, with all freedom unhinderedly" Acts 28:30,31. Would that be the climax of the throne of grace presented in Paul's ministry?

J.T. It is remarkable, it is in his own hired house at Rome. One has often thought of the closing verses of the second treatise of Luke. It is his own hired house -- it is his own -- it is in the hands of Paul, that is what the significance is. It was his own hired house where he received all that came to him.

FEATURES OF THE ASSEMBLY (1)

Matthew 10:40,41; Matthew 13:43; Matthew 3:13 - 15

J.T. There are certain features that belong to the assembly that we might consider: the first is righteousness, which is in mind for this meeting; then sowing, leading up to the assembly, the formation of the assembly; and then the functioning of the assembly.

It will be understood that the theme is the assembly, but in a somewhat limited sense -- the assembly seen in Matthew, the only gospel in which it is found formally. It is thought that to get a true understanding of the assembly we would begin with Matthew. There will be other features, all in a limited way, as we remarked, such as chapter 13 in which we have the ministry of the kingdom of God, but the idea of sowing governs the chapter. And then it is hoped that we shall come to formation of the assemblies, to which these other scriptures are introductory. Formation begins properly in chapter 16, and then the idea of the function of the assembly is found in chapter 18.

J.McK. You were remarking about the assembly being based on righteousness in this section. Would you open that up a little?

J.T. Righteousness is a great governing thought in the gospel of Matthew and we see it particularly expressed in chapter 3 in the verses read, in which the Lord, when He was baptised, came from Galilee to the Jordan to John to be baptised of him. He was very definite. He did not come casually as many doubtless in different parts of that region came to the Jordan to be baptised of John. "Then comes Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptised of him". It was very definite. John is the baptiser; and his protest was met by the Lord saying, "Suffer it now; for thus it becometh us to

fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffers him". The Lord quieted his thoughts, using the expression "all righteousness".

J.McK. Is baptism one feature of this righteousness?

J.T. It is. Righteousness is just what is right and baptism is right. John was sent to baptise, and it was right that the Lord came to John to be baptised. It was coming in the way of righteousness. John had come in the way of righteousness, and the Lord had come in the way of righteousness and baptism belonged to that way.

S.McC. Matthew being the administrative gospel, was it in your mind that it is essential that we should be basically established in the pursuit of what is right in view of having part in the administrative vessel?

J.T. Quite so. If we are not in the way of righteousness how can we talk of the assembly?

S.McC. It is important especially in these days when we are inclined to be deflected from the pursuit of what is right.

J.T. Questions arise among us and we do not know what to do. We may inquire of others, whereas the Lord would tell us if we looked to Him. He would direct us, so that we might find the way ourselves.

J.McK. Is that seen in Joseph? It is said of him he was a righteous man.

J.T. Exactly. He is a model man, I would say. He is called a son of David, which is remarkable.

R.W.S. The Lord introduces the thought of comparative righteousness in chapter 5, but this is "all righteousness", a greater thought.

J.T. That is what I was thinking. One has often thought how comprehensive it is. The Lord uses the plural; He says, "thus it becometh us [Him and John] to fulfil all righteousness". And, of course, as

the Lord's circle became wider, the "us" would be much wider, and would embrace all who learned from Him.

E.G.McA. What is the significance of baptism in connection with righteousness?