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Pages 1 to 141, Second half of 'Households in Relation to the Ark' and Other Ministry 1938 - 39 (Volume 209).

THE PERFECTING OF PRAISE

Matthew 11:16 - 19, 25; Matthew 18:2, 3; Matthew 21:15, 16

J.T. This gospel is somewhat marked by the prominence given to children. These scriptures I have suggested are illustrative of this and show how the perfection of praise is seen in them. In the last Scripture read, the one thought in the prominence given to children seems to be to set aside traditional religious influence. Anything of the kind, however small, entering into a meeting tends to weaken the service of God and the liberty that belongs to us as sons of God. The idea of children and what marks them characteristically would be set over against a fixed condition already existent in older ones, especially in Matthew, because of the assembly's place and function as developed in that gospel. A condition brought about by traditional teaching and influence must be inimical to the service of God, however orthodox it may be or according to accepted principles. The people had gone out to see John, which of course was so far right, but then the Lord challenges them as to what they went out to see, in order to bring out what John really was, and the condition among the Jews was so apathetic to what was fresh and direct from God at the moment that the Lord has recourse to this parable. He said: "It is like children sitting in the markets, which, calling to their companions, say, We have piped to you, and ye have not danced: we have mourned to you, and ye have not wailed. For John has come neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He has a demon. The Son of man has come eating and drinking, and they say, Behold, a man that is eating and wine-drinking, a friend of tax-gatherers, and of sinners -- and wisdom has been

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justified by her children". There were those there who were different.

W.F. Is that the thought of another generation, wisdom's children, "To whom shall I liken this generation"?

J.T. Quite so. It is a new beginning. Verse 25 brings it down to babes. It is a new thought being inculcated at the very lowest growth so as to be entirely unsophisticated by traditional influences. Hence the importance of the children being with us in our readings and imbibing the right thoughts, breathing the right atmosphere from the beginning. The Lord gives His own example by calling one such in chapter 18. It is significant as coming in after the assembly is introduced, and as the disciples, seemingly disregarding the wonderful teaching of chapter 17, which shows the status on to which they are brought as sons, have their minds imbued with rivalry or ambition in verse 1, so that the Lord calls a little child to Him and sets it in their midst, saying, "Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven". So that it is brought in there as the exclusive way into the kingdom of heaven. It requires conversion, resulting in this character of little children. Then finally in the temple where the service of God should be prominent, the praises of Israel are only found in the children, and the Lord defends them and points out from the Psalms that it is a divine thought that the praise of God should be perfected in them, a most interesting thought now, because we are getting near the end, and God is perfecting us in this way.

A.H.G. Would what is traditional render them insensible to ministry as indicated in the first scripture read, the piping and mourning?

J.T. That is what I was thinking, that the piping and mourning of children would be real feeling, and

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their companions in the parable would point to persons listening to the ministry of John the baptist and the ministry of Christ. It was a real feeling appeal in both persons -- in John the baptist and in Christ -- but there was no response at all, save the worst kind of opposition. John the baptist, they said, had a demon, and the Son of man, because He ate and drank, was a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners.

W.O.H. Have you anything in mind when you speak of what is traditional in connection with our meetings?

J.T. I mean anything that has come down to us that we are clinging to as over against what is fresh and current. Many are hindered by the traditional side from going in for and appropriating what is current by the Spirit and fresh, because the traditional feature cannot be the perfecting of the thing, inasmuch as it is past and gone. It has not perfected anything. The children in chapter 21 are spoken of by the Lord as perfecting praise. God is perfecting the thing in them and if we hold back from that we shall never be perfected.

R.G.C. Making of it none effect through their traditional teaching.

W.F. That brings in man, human thoughts, traditions. It would not be looking for divine communications, would it?

J.T. Not at all. That which had the mark of divine approval even may not have been on the line of perfecting. It may not have been the perfecting side of the matter, and if we cling to that we shall never be perfected. The perfecting must come in at the end.

Ques. Would chapter 11: 15 suggest the line on which we are perfected? "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear". Would we need to maintain that attitude?

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J.T. Quite so. "If ye will receive it, this is Elias, who is to come". There was Something there that any Jew or Israelite should recognise, that is Elias. He is past but his ministry has the character of continuance and may be taken on by others. So that John the baptist was that, if they would receive it. If they did not, it would have to be deferred. The little children were there current, not a reincarnation of Elijah or of his ministry, but what is current, the natural growth of the moment. Elijah must go forward and, according to the prophets, will reappear; that is, he presents a full thought, but to take form in another than himself.

A.H.G. It says, "Wisdom has been justified by her children". Is this generation of children the product in that way of wisdom?

J.T. That is the thought, the children; the word in that particular verse carries the thought of dignity, of growth; it is not of little children such as the earlier reference to the little children in the markets. Children of wisdom is a full thought. The thought of children is, of course, in relationship to the father, but it might apply to persons of very advanced years.

W.F. The Lord seems to bring it in in contrast with this generation; they did not take in John's ministry.

Ques. You were speaking about the full thought to be reached in chapter 21 in relation to the praise and service of God. I was wondering if it begins by the getting of wisdom: "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding", so that we might understand what is spoken to us in relation to these things, as over against all this tradition. Is that what is in your mind?

J.T. The last scripture finishes with really the highest note up to that time, the highest note developing out of the work of God. We have the thought of

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sonship earlier in the book, but the Son of David was a note developing out of the work of God. In chapter 20, the two blind men did not speak in an orthodox sense, but from their own feelings and spiritual intelligence. The Lord was entering on His own territory at Jericho and without anyone telling them they say, "Lord, Son of David". That was a note for that particular time, and the children carried that note forward. It lasts, it is carried through, and it is perfected in the temple, in the children. So that I think the teaching for us would be that whatever is the note for the moment, whatever phase of the truth is coming out, whether the outcome of the work of God in His people, or whether by the teaching of the Spirit, whatever is the note or theme for the moment, what the Spirit is saying, that is what enters into the perfecting. The word the Lord uses, the perfecting of praise, is in relation to the note that began with the two blind men, who were of no religious status at all, but it came out through them and was carried through into Jerusalem by way of the ass and the colt. These children are taking it up and they are perfecting it; they are carrying it forward; they had to do it, the perfecting must involve that, not what had preceded. That is the point, I think, at the beginning of chapter 18.

W.S.S. Would the truth of sonship as at the end of chapter 17 be the note for the moment? In chapter 18 we read: "In that hour the disciples came to Jesus saying, Who then is greatest in the kingdom of the heavens?", as though there was something in them which was hindering them from apprehending just what was being presented at that moment.

J.T. They missed it. It was spoken most clearly, the Lord bringing Himself into the matter to fill out the truth, "Take that and give it to them for me and thee". It is most palpable that though Peter

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was brought on to the same ground as Christ (he could not have had any greater honour than to be brought on to that ground) he so soon lost sight of it in wondering who is greatest.

W.S.S. Does the Lord taking the little child indicate the way in which we are brought into the truth of Sonship?

J.T. Yes, whatever the truth be that is in mind. The truth of sonship is in chapter 17 and, of course, that brings in the assembly because chapter 17 is the filling out of chapter 16, to show the personnel, the kind of persons that form the assembly. The subject is really finished in that sense at the end of chapter 17, but chapter 18 shows that the disciples were not up to it and hence the little child shows them that they could only learn as taking that attitude. But chapter 21 stands in another relation. It is not the Son of God but the Son of David. That is the truth for that time because the Lord was entering His capital, Jerusalem, and bringing in the question of His rights to it as the Son of David. The blind men inaugurate that principle and the little children are not behind. The thing comes down and is perfected.

W.F. Was it in your mind to connect the response of praise with the revelation to babes in the verse we had in chapter 11?

J.T. Just so. The Father began at the bottom with the babes. In chapter 21, it is now the Person of the Lord entering into His capital, but the little children are in the temple, and you have this thought in verses 15 and 16, "When the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the son of David ..." they did not go beyond that; the crowds added from Psalm 118, "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord" (verse 9), but the little children kept to what the blind men said in the end of chapter 20. They cried out

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saying, "Have mercy on us, Lord, Son of David". Why did they say that? They are blind men and evidently not men that would have much learning as had the Pharisees and scribes, but they say the words, bringing in just the note according to the position; it is what belonged to that particular position that Christ was in.

W.S.S. You mean He was going to Jerusalem?

J.T. Yes.

W.F. Presenting Himself in that particular sense.

J.T. Yes. So that the word in chapter 21: 5 is a quotation from the prophet Zechariah: "All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, Tell ye the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass". And then the crowds in verse 9, who went before Him and who followed, cried, saying, "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord". The scriptures therefore were fulfilled at that time in principle, but the little ones carried what the blind men said, and that is the note the Lord is specially interested in now. What comes out in that way is being perfected, and we want to be in that. We want to be amongst those who are perfecting praise. That is what the Lord is helping in relation to, that His praise might be perfected.

B.S. What would represent, in the assembly service today, these children and the features seen in them?

J.T. It is a state of freshness and readiness to take in what is current. They are wholly free from traditional teaching, and from what would hinder them in fully taking on what is current. This note had come in in chapter 20; the temple feature is earlier and it runs on to chapter 18, but this is the testimony at the moment. The blind men introduced it, and chapter 21 brings in the ass and colt. There are two blind men in Matthew, only one in Mark and Luke;

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also the ass and the colt are in Matthew instead of the colt as in Luke and John. So that it is the testimony carried through in a full way, not simply in one but in two, and then eventuating in children; that principle is suggestive of a fresh energetic state in the saints, a readiness to take on what is current by the Spirit, because that is the perfecting of the thing.

A.H.G. Children would not represent then that which is immature or not full grown?

J.T. It may be one or the other. There are several words which are used for children. The one used in Luke is rather the diminutive, but this one would point to a state ready for instruction, the state in the saints ready for taking in things that are current.

W.S.S. Would the fact that it says, "Jesus having called a little child to him" help in this connection? Elsewhere it says He took a little child.

J.T. Yes, he was intelligent, he answered.

J.F.L.S. Does the idea of smallness have to be maintained by us in order that the state might be produced?

J.T. It goes with it. All the senses normally are in action in young people. When we get older our senses become dull, and if we are governed by traditional things we hardly take in current things.

Ques. I would like to get clear what is in your mind in the thought of being perfected. The note that had begun with the blind men by the wayside was, "Lord, Son of David", and what the children said in the temple was more or less the same; in which way was the perfecting seen? In that it was in the temple?

J.T. In that it was spontaneous and as indicated in the Lord's own comment.

W.F. "Hosanna to the Son of David"; it is in that way a response contrasted with the adversaries in Psalm 8.

J.T. There was music in it.

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L.D.M. It is striking, too, that apart from any sense of need in the children as with the blind men, there is a merging connected with what they introduced. It seems to be a fuller thought and more spontaneous in the children in the temple.

J.T. Yes, and it is in keeping with David, the musician, the sweet psalmist, 'Hosanna' is a beautiful touch; the blind men do not say that. They are in the sense of need and they are asking for mercy. They say, "Lord"; they are subject to Him. Instead of that the little ones say, "Hosanna to the Son of David" -- a lovely note. I suppose there would be a little piety when they uttered it.

W.F. It seems to link with Psalm 118:25: "Save, Jehovah".

R.G.C. The children are moved to spontaneous response. The city is moved in regard to questioning who this Person is, but the children are moved to response in surroundings out of which they would be kept in the ordinary way, but they move there in a sphere which is kept open to them in the power of the Son of David. The tradition of the temple would have kept them out.

J.T. And it seems a fixed thing in their minds. They are not questioning, but taking on what is already current. Hosanna is music of instruction, a feeling matter, and fits in perfectly now. God is speaking to us about His service and about the perfecting of it. Paul would say the perfecting is going on, for God has His way. Paul says, "To ... present every man perfect". Perfection is a thought that is very much stressed in Colossians, and the perfection of praise is one of the most interesting things, and that it should be found in these children is very striking.

A.H.G. It says, "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise". Why are the babes and sucklings referred to in that connection?

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J.T. It is children in the very beginnings. Peter uses the expression "newborn babes". He would stress the thought of keenness of taste, so that "the mouth of babes and sucklings" is suggestive. It is not the modern musical instrument, for musical instruments of old were simply typical of what comes out of the mouths of the sons.

Ques. How would the thought in chapter 18 of being converted and becoming as little children apply to us now?

J.T. It applies to all unconverted christians, a very paradoxical phrase, but there is meaning in it, for we all need conversion from time to time. If we have been held, for instance, in traditional things, we need conversion. If we are rivals one of another, we need conversion. Conversion is going on all the time among the saints, but sometimes we do not admit of it, and hold on to old things. 'Which of us shall be the greatest?', anyone who says that needs conversion.

W.W.S.F. Does 1 Peter present it at all? He speaks of newborn babes and of living stones, and then he speaks of a spiritual house. I was wondering if that was on the line of perfecting that you have in mind.

J.T. Yes, all those remarks in 1 Peter 2 lead on to perfection, for he says, "to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Jesus Christ". That is the perfection of the thought of sacrifice, and the spiritual house is the perfection of the thought of house, and praise is the perfection of the thought of worshippers or offerers. Then Peter himself is the best illustration you can get of a man converted after he was a believer; and he must have needed conversion to some extent when he came under the influence of judaising teachers at Antioch.

A.S. Is there the thought of dependence in the thought of babes and sucklings? The Lord speaks

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of praise being perfected in them, but just previously He has referred to the house being a house of prayer. I wondered if the two went together.

J.T. I suppose so. Dependence would mark a babe. The Lord speaks Himself in a most feeling way, "Thou art my God". He said, "I was cast upon thee from the womb; thou art my God from my mother's belly", Psalm 22:10. A suckling is the very expression of dependence on somebody else -- the mother.

L.D.M. Do not tradition and formality effectively shut out the Spirit, and hinder the bringing in of the mind of God? We need dependence in that way on the Spirit and to maintain self-judgment.

J.T. It certainly enters into every item of service and walk in a christian. He is dependent on another, and there can be no doubt that the Lord has that in mind. Children represent that side.

W.S.S. Is this set forth for us in perfection particularly in Christ in this gospel, where He is presented to us as a little Child? Would the apprehension of that in our souls help us to be delivered from what is merely traditional, to overcome that on those lines?

J.T. Yes, we see that in the very beginning He was with His mother; that is where He was found -- meaning that He was where He could draw on another at that time. So that the word to Joseph was, "Take to thee the little child and his mother", because in that state He needed His mother. I suppose that gives you the clue to the great prominence given to children in Matthew, and the introduction of Rachel into Matthew is very suggestive, because it is the tenderness of motherly feeling coming down, that is, Rachel weeping for her children. She is viewed in a metaphorical way in Matthew 2, carried down through the prophet Jeremiah, as representing right motherly feeling as to children.

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A.H.G. Would that give a significance to the action of Herod in relation to children, as though the enemy would blot out this line?

J.T. That is the idea exactly. Just as in Pharaoh, the enemy would attempt in Herod to nullify the great work of God that was coming in in children, not simply little children, but the saints taking that ground. That is what the Lord meant, I am sure, when He said to the Father, 'You have taken up the babes'. That was what was going on.

W.S.S. I suppose that every influence around us militates against the maintenance of the spirit of the little child. As has been remarked, when they that sought the life of the little Child were dead, He was to be brought back from Egypt. The deadly influence was all around, but the little child was going to overthrow all that system of things.

J.T. Yes indeed, so the dragon was ready to devour the man child. It was all for the same thing -- to interfere with the work of God.

A.E.M-o. Have you in mind in the perfecting of praise the adjustment necessary with many of us in regard of the service of God?

J.T. That is what I was thinking of in suggesting these scriptures, that we may discern anything that interferes with the perfecting, with what God is going on with. It is a wonderful moment for us: He is perfecting the saints, and perfecting us in praise, so as to have us for ever for His praise, "To him be glory in the assembly". And the moral side is to disallow whatever it may be that hinders one in coming into this, in joining with these little children in the temple in this note: so that the next thing is, it is not that I am there to be alongside these priests and scribes. It says, "When the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonders which he wrought, and the children crying in the temple and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David, they were indignant, and

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said to him, Hearest thou what these say?". Why did they not call the Lord's attention to the healing of the blind? They would not dare to attempt that, but they were against Christ, and they took the line of least resistance. A lot of people around would say, It is not right that these children should be saying that; but the Lord defends them. We can well afford to accept the ridicule of the priests and scribes if the Lord defends us.

A.E.M-o. It would be very pleasurable to Him to have the note at that moment, would it not?

J.T. It must have been the sweetest note He had heard since He heard the blind men. The crowds spoke the truth, and the Lord no doubt ordered that they should, but these children refer to a state which the word 'crowds' would not in that connection.

A.H.G. Would that be one feature of the perfecting, the intelligence to keep to the note of the moment, and not to introduce another note?

J.T. That is right, though there is great variety in the praise of God, of course. The Lord says, "the praises of Israel". God inhabits those. The great variety in our hymn-book is very good, we have got much that can be used in that way, but the praises to the Lord Jesus, which are always right, overshadow by far the praises to the Father in our book, and that needs balancing. I mean the perfecting will lead to that balance.

R.G.C. I would like to ask, does the perfecting of holiness go along with the perfecting of praise, the Lord clearing the temple in that way, the perfecting of holiness making room for right response in the children? You were saying that there is no true response without feeling being brought in.

J.T. So that He goes out to Bethany. According to verse 17, He went forth to Bethany, and there He passed the night. I think the night there would be in keeping with the note of these children. He had

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to go outside the city. The children's praises were not supported: the religious predominating element was not supporting the truth. They ridiculed and persecuted, you may say, those who were perfecting the praises of God. He went out to Bethany, and spent the night, that must have been a very happy retreat for Him. The Lord needed that, and then, as it says, early in the morning we have the cursing of the fig tree and the questioning of the leaders. Earlier He "cast out all that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those that sold the doves. And he says to them, It is written, My house shall be called a house of prayer". So that we see the necessity for all that if this praise is to be continued. All refuse, and all that is unsuitable in the service of God, is to be cast out. The cursing of the fig tree is very solemn, because it shows the ultimate end of all this opposition.

L.D.M. Would you think the book of Proverbs would help as to the discernment of what might come in to hinder God's getting His portion? It opens in a striking way, the "Proverbs of Solomon, son of David, king of Israel: to know wisdom and instruction". I was wondering whether there is much teaching in the first nine chapters as to what would come in to hinder God's getting His service of praise.

J.T. Quite so. Wisdom builds her house.

L.D.M. Wisdom subjectively.

A.H.G. Would the word 'perfected' indicate a process?

J.T. It is what God is doing. I think the blind men show in what they say that they were subject; that would be the basis of divine operations; unless we are subject God is shut out. They said, "Lord, Son of David". That makes way for the Lord's operations, so He proceeds and the beginning of chapter 21 shows what agencies He would have to

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enter into His city, and how He cleansed the temple and then the opposition there in the priests and scribes, but whilst interfering they do not question what He is doing but they question what the children are doing; that is the thing. They would make the Lord condemn the children, if they could, as Balaam would make Jehovah curse Israel. It is that sort of thing, to condemn what God's people are doing that is right.

W.S.S. It is very much like the public profession today, where the outward benefits and effects are taken account of; nobody speaks against that, but what would be suggestive of little children, the instinct which appreciates Christ, is spoken against and comes under reproach.

J.T. Yes, so with Saul's daughter Michal, the point she takes notice of in despising David is the uncovering of himself. Why did she not talk about the mode of his dancing? He knew how to dance spiritually; why did she not talk about that?

W.S.S. What she treated with contempt was the spirit of a little child in David.

A.S. Does it mean it was really the Person they were attacking, the Son of David?

J.T. It was really Christ, as elsewhere they say you ought to bring people to be healed at other times, not on the sabbath. They blame the persons who brought the needy ones; in truth they were blaming Christ.

A.E.M-o. The enemy would be bound to be behind the opposition to what was so pleasurable to God.

J.T. Quite so.

W.F. Further on in the chapter they challenge the Lord as to His authority in doing these things. There is opposition there.

J.T. Yes, but they give Him an opportunity to answer; they do not give the children an opportunity

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to answer. If we despise or slander a person to another, it is worse than speaking to the people themselves. Why did they not go to the children if they were wrong; why did they not speak to the children and educate them if they needed it? but they really meant to attack the Lord.

B.S. Would gladness be seen in these children normally and enter into what they were saying?

J.T. Yes, what we had this morning. The gladness is a state; if it be not with spiritual gladness we are just singing, "Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord".

B.S. Gladness is essential for the service of God; do we sometimes try to go on without that?

J.T. Yes, I think we just tax the hymn-book and make it do the work. The drinking of the cup, I believe, enters into that. The breaking of the bread brings the Lord in, but the drinking of the cup is the completion of the thought of memorial, the Lord says "As oft as ye drink it", not 'as oft as ye eat the bread', but 'as oft as ye drink the cup'; the real point in the cup is the drinking of it, it is the gladness and satisfaction that it affords and qualifies us to go on with the Lord.

W.F. The thought of the cup of blessing, which we bless? We speak well of it.

J.T. It is worth eulogising, you mean. It sets up a state of spiritual happiness which is essential in the house of God.

W.S.S. I was thinking of the scripture you have often referred to in regard of Aaron going forth to meet Moses; he was glad in his heart. Is that the kind of gladness you are referring to?

A.H.G. Would you just say a word as to the bearing of chapter 11: 25, "Hast revealed them unto babes"? Has the revealing to babes a bearing on the perfecting of praise?

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J.T. It has. The Lord would no doubt include the revelation to Peter in this. He would have that sort of thing in mind. So that we must understand the word 'babes' is more symbolical of persons who are converted to God beginning at the bottom in the exercise of the sense of taste, and capable of receiving divine thoughts, because babes in this way would hardly receive a revelation; so that it is a man, it must be regarded as referring to ourselves. In fact the Lord was referring to the disciples when He said it, and adds, "Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight". So the Father enters into this matter and has pleasure in it.

L.D.M. Is there the suggestion of sovereignty in the revealing? The truth of the assembly and all that is connected with the service of God seems to imply that the thing is given in the nature of revelation. Is that on the line of sovereignty?

J.T. Yes, and then the question is if you receive a revelation from God, whether you can take care of it. How do you value it? That is the next thing. Those that saw the Lord Jesus go up must have been wonderfully impressed, because stress is laid on the way He went up. It was an impression, and it says they went into the upper room as coming into the city. Luke in the gospel would show that they carry on the thought of going into the temple after the Lord went up, and were there continually praising and blessing God, full of gladness; that was a testimony to Israel. It was because of their state, because they were fit to bear testimony to Israel. But in Acts 1 it is not that side; it is there the impression they receive spiritually in view of the assembly, for it is all in view of the assembly in Acts, that the impressions should be where they can be conserved. They went to the upper room. Going into the temple would not mean they would be conserved there. These impressions would be lost. That is what is

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happening with most of our brethren in system, they get an impression of God in the gospel and they are linked up with some human organisation and their impression becomes lost or damaged. There is no such thing as a treasury in any of these organisations.

L.D.M. So their spiritual instincts took them to the upper room where these holy impressions would be conserved.

J.T. And immediately we are told who were in that upper room.

Rem. Every spiritual impression is kept and guarded by the Holy Spirit.

J.T. That is the importance of getting young people into fellowship in the true sense of the word, not adding to another sect, because that is what the enemy would like to make any who are in the truth of God. The fellowship is a safeguard; hence we can see the importance of getting young people into fellowship from that point of view, because they are where any impression will be conserved and developed. But if you go to the Church of England you will get it beclouded, and it will not develop. That is, I think, what is meant by children, maintaining the character of children, that you are ready to receive any divine impression, and the first chapter of Acts shows that they had certainly got a wonderful impression when they saw Him go up, 'You shall see him coming back as you saw Him go up'. They kept looking into the air too long; He had gone out of sight. There is no more to see but to keep to that impression, and so they went to the upper room and then these people are staying there, the eleven. Mary the mother of the Lord, and His brethren, and the other women.

Ques. Is the assembly the sphere where we get one living impression after another of Christ?

J.T. Yes, and you know where to go with your impression. I think it is helpful to let them out, tell the brethren about them. I am not saying that

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Paul does not set an example in keeping for fourteen years the impressions he had in heaven; the question is whether he ever really uttered them, because they were not intended to be uttered, but the effect of them was seen in his ministry through all those years, the brethren got the gain of them, but ordinarily I believe it helps us to let the brethren know what you have, and the Lord will become enlarged to us. It speaks in 1 Corinthians 14 of everyone having a psalm, some experience, and it is to be given out to edifying.

L.D.M. So the service of God is enriched in that way by the bringing in of spiritual impressions? The whole assembly is enriched.

Ques. Is there a tendency to leave that kind of meeting too much to spiritual gift instead of the brethren generally feeling encouraged to bring out these impressions?

J.T. That is right, if a man has a psalm it is not primarily the thought of gift; it is what he has experienced with God.

W.S.S. This giving out we are speaking of is the feature of a little child; a child wants to communicate immediately any fresh knowledge it gains.

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THE BELIEVER MADE PART OF THE DIVINE SYSTEM

John 3:35; John 4:10 - 30, 39 - 42

What I have in view is to say something about the divine economy, a word which perhaps some here may not have connected with divine things, but a very good word, as conveying the order or system of things which God has set up and into which He has come. Some may not have thought that God has come into a system of things, many assume that revelation means that the veil has been removed, so that we might look unto God as He ever was, know Him as He ever was; the word 'revelation' indeed means unveiling, but there is another word used also, namely declaration, which means the bringing out. Both words apply in regard of this matter of economy, and in speaking of God coming into what He has ordained creationally, one needs only to refer to the first chapter of Genesis, to show that He did come into something that He had not been in before. He came into time, for instance; He created time. It stands related to the creation, it was one of the first things mentioned after the general statement of the creation. The Spirit we are told, the Spirit of God (that is God Himself in that relation) was brooding over the face of the deep; the divine feelings were active and in the darkness that prevailed "God said, Let there be light. And there was light ... . And God called the light Day", and that became a measure of time into which God entered and worked. He came into that day, such is God in the activities of His love.

Then again as to the earth, we are told that God in the beginning created the heavens and the earth. It says the earth was without form and void; it does not say the heavens were, although in the order of things God evidently created the heavens first, for it

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is said, as the foundations of the earth were laid, "The morning stars sang together" -- they belonged to heaven, they were there -- "and all the sons of God shouted for joy" (Job 38:7); they were there. A happy state of things came into evidence as this orb on which we are, on which God was operating, began. It became affected obviously by sin, according to Genesis 1, so God had to begin over again, and He began feelingly; He created another heaven called the expanse. He created it in relation to this earth, and He came into all that and operated too, brought everything into the order that He had in mind, which the psalmist describes. Psalm 104 describes the order of things that God had set up on the renewed earth, the recovered earth, streams, valleys, and rivers, and so forth, so that it should be ornamented and furnished for Himself, with growth and sustenance, but not without work, nor was it left to carry on itself. God operated in it and is operating in it at this moment. He has come into it in each of us, I am speaking now as to the creation, for "in him we live, and move, and have our being". God is in it as its Creator, and keeps it going. It will not continue for ever as it is, but He is keeping it going for a purpose. He operated for six days, we are told, and on the seventh day He was refreshed; it is a most touching matter for us how God comes near and is near as the Creator. We are here tonight, as all men are in their places, sustained by God. Not simply a God at a distance, but actually here, actually come in and operating.

Well, having said all that by the way, I come to John 3:35 to show that there is another order of things inside of the physical, dependent on the physical, for, as far as we are externally concerned, the physical serves the spiritual, but the spiritual is within the range of the physical for the moment, and so you have the Father and the Son, which we do

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not get in the Old Testament formally, for the Son was yet in the Deity, in absolute Deity; indeed He is the Jehovah of the Old Testament, which we should always bear in mind. He is always the operative One. We are told that He made the worlds, and without Him was not one thing made that was made, but then it is also said that God made the worlds by Him, that He acted in that sense in a mediatorial way, yet retaining His place in the Deity; never inferior, neither in person nor in status until He became Man, and even then He is not inferior. He retains His status personally, although He has taken a place in order to effect this great thought, the economy for the moment, the provisional economy, so that God might secure what He has counselled to bring about, and on the other hand that He might be known in the gospel. So John's gospel brings out this strikingly in his own language, especially used and specially fitted of God for such a service as this gospel testifies to. It is a question of love, dear brethren; power, of course, but it is a question of love, active love; power available in the love, but active love. Hence we get in this verse, "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand". That is the position. The Father has not retired into absoluteness, out of view, the Father is seen throughout this gospel as active in it, as the Son is, and as the Spirit is, hence the Lord says, "My Father worketh hitherto". He was active all the time, but now as in the economy He is active in relation to the Son, and we are in the thing.

What I wish to show in what I have been saying, is the result, that we are secured through the economy on the principle of faith, we are made immediately part of it. That is the impression I would like to leave with all; many have it already doubtless, but I should like all to have it, that as secured by the economy, by the operation of it, we are made part of

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it; what is called popular evangelism is short of the truth; persons are converted and allowed to go as they will and where they will, and link themselves up with religious bodies which in no way represent the economy of God, whereas the true gospel, which this book of John implies, is that we are brought into the thing through which the light of the cross and the power of the deliverance have come to us. We are brought into that, and we are imbued with the spirit of it, so that we seek that others should be brought into it. So the first chapter is marked by an evangelical spirit. John the baptist presents Christ as moving, as active. Spiritual inactivity is abhorrent to the spirit of this gospel. John is active, he sees Jesus active, and as he sees Him coming to him he says, "Behold the Lamb of God", and others move to the Lamb of God. Jesus becomes the centre, and those who come to Him first address Him as Teacher, because what I have been saying requires teaching. The most urgent need, dear brethren, is teaching, divine teaching. So in this book the Lord (quoting the prophet) says, "They shall be all taught of God", and I do not want to be outside of that divine teaching. No true christian would be outside of it, "they shall be all taught of God". They called Him Teacher and asked Him where He abode, and He said, "Come and see". That is the next thing. It is what exists today, that is the point that John has in mind, it is what exists; what is of God is worthy of observation. No one who is of God is ashamed to call attention to what is of God, however little it is, for as of God, it is worth seeing, it is a testimony, "come and see". They came and "abode with him that day. It was about the tenth hour".

So down the chapter you will observe this idea of activity, they have come into a system of things perhaps not yet intelligible to them, but suppose we picture the two disciples in the place where Jesus

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abode -- spiritually what did they see? They would see Jesus in it all -- you will understand I am not speaking in any way discreditably -- but anything that is in His surroundings is of Himself, that is the principle, that He surrounds Himself with witnesses to Himself, so Peter says, for instance, to the lame man, "Look on us". He is not diverting the man from Christ, he is attracting the man to what testifies of Christ, to what enhances the glory of Christ, for they were two apostles, Peter and John. So you may say they might have seen much in the surroundings in which the Lord abides that is not disclosed to us. John is writing of the last days, and of course that would bear on the last days. Where does the Lord abide? Where can He find a resting place today? that is the point. If there are a few in this town who love Him, and as loving Him keep His commandments, and have no notions of their own, but determine everything by Scripture; if they love Him they keep His commandments and if you want to see where He abides, that is the place. Of course, He is in the Father's affections above, in the Father's bosom, but as regards the testimony, which is the point now, it is where the Lord has a resting place here, where He can be seen, where He abides: "Come and see". The conditions in any or every locality among those professing to be of the assembly, ought to be such that we may freely invite people to see; it is a question of what Christ has effected or it is nothing at all. It is nothing at all morally if Christ has not effected it, but if there are those who love Him and keep His commandments, they, however few, even one according to John 14, would invite anyone that wants to see where Jesus is; He will be there spiritually, you understand, "Come and see" is one of the leading thoughts in John's gospel.

So that, as I said in that chapter, it is continuous movement. Andrew was one of the two; we are not

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told who the other one was, I have no doubt it was John himself, but that is only a conjecture, save that we arrive at it by his way of referring to things that refer to himself. He keeps himself in the background; it is a question of adequate testimony as to where Jesus abides. Andrew went and found his brother Simon; he is potentially of the system that I am speaking of; he and John together according to Acts could say "Come and see", but Andrew found Simon and brought him to Jesus, and the Lord named him in relation to the system; He named him Cephas, and the Spirit of God tells us it means a Stone. The Lord had in His mind a structure, and there it is in Simon. "Thou shalt be called Cephas"; that is, in the testimony people would call him that; he would be known as a stable, reliable man, and there can be no structure without reliability and stability, and that is what the word 'stone' would indicate. The Lord found Philip and Philip found Nathanael, and Philip says to Nathanael, "Come and see". He might say, "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?", but Philip would say, 'Well, do not be too sure'. It is a very unsafe thing to judge at a distance either persons or things or places; hence the word is "Come and see". Do not have preconceived thoughts as to what is of God, come and see; Nathanael did come, and the Lord saw him coming. It is now a question, not of what Nathanael is to see, but what the Lord sees in Nathanael. The matter is turned round, because if you are coming with any interest at all, you must come under the eyes of the brethren, under the Lord's eyes, for examination. It is not all one-sided; it is not that you are patronising the Lord if you come to hear the gospel or hear the word of God, there is another side, that you have come under His eye, and He has to carefully look over you. You may think it is an optional thing with you, but it is not, the Lord says, I have to pass My eyes over

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you; so He scrutinises Nathanael, but not until he began to move. It is a question of movement, and so when He saw Nathanael coming to Him he said, "Behold an Israelite indeed". That is another testimony: how few there are in whom there is no guile! They are very rare. The Lord saw that. He named Peter and called him Cephas, and He named Nathanael "an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile".

That is how the matter stands in John, so that Nathanael is part of the structure, because he is a guileless man, but he is an Israelite indeed; that is a spiritual thought. He is not an unsteady sort of man, he is a real person, and he is recognised by the facts that the Lord knew as to him, for He judged him right through, and His judgment brings out Nathanael's confession that the Lord was the Son of God and the King of Israel. You can see what a delightful man he would be in the system. The Lord is looking for such, for stable people, people that do not waver in their thoughts, not unduly critical in questioning, but submissive, for men like Nathanael; he is an Israelite indeed, a genuine man, a transparent man, there is no guile in him. The Lord says, 'You will see greater things than these'. People who are questioning all the time never see anything, never learn anything, "ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth". But not so Nathanael for the Lord says, "Thou shalt see greater things than these", and he had said that Christ is the Son of God, the King of Israel.

I have perhaps said too much on that line, but it is in order to make clear what is in view, that there is an economy composed of such persons and that the Son of God is the great central thought. If you read down the first chapter of John you will see the many titles by which He is known, all bearing on His glory, His glorious Person. He is worthy of our attention: He says later, "I, if I be lifted up out of

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the earth, will draw all to me". If there is anyone who has not been drawn to Christ then it is evident that God is not allowed to work in you; you are not like Nathanael, he came to Jesus, he came to see. He was asked to come and see, and he came.

Now in verse 35 the position is defined. It is a question of love. The Father loves the Son. Why should this be said, because it is already said that He dwells in the bosom of the Father? Surely He is loved there. It is not that He was in the bosom of the Father; it is the present tense, as we have often noticed, "the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father". It is a question of what He is as Man, the delight the Father has in Him, and it is expressed in that unmistakable way, "the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him". It is a position of love, that is what it is. The Son is in the bosom of the Father, and now in order to make that applicable to the economy that God has set up, it says here, "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand". It is the singular, to set out the official position, as you might say. Everything is to be in His hand. It is the general position, but it is given over in love; it is a question of the Father loving the Son. The next verse says, "He that believes on the Son has life eternal, and he that is not subject to the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him". That is a most solemn word, because it alludes to the Jews, the reprobate Jews, which this gospel contemplates, the Jews suffering; in fact nothing could be more severe than this verse, that the wrath of God abides, not 'will abide', but "abides". Paul confirming this says that "wrath has come upon them to the uttermost", a most pitiable thought, because we see it, dear brethren, all around us at the present time. God has put a mark upon them as He did on Cain, and He will see

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to it that anyone who damages them will come under His judgment, but still there it is, and the economy and the administration goes on in the hands of the Son whom the Father loves.

Chapter 4 is to work that out and to show how those brought into the system are brought into it livingly. There is no question here of the forgiveness of sins; that, of course, is implied, but the point in the administration of chapter 4 is that the person who believes is brought into the system in a living way. Many are brought into the system outwardly, merely by baptism, and in that respect I wanted just to say a word as to those who are, or were then, the official servants of Christ, that they are out of this whole chapter 4 as to their work, a most solemn thing. We may have the reputation of holding things and being near the Lord, and yet the real living thing and the result He is securing are outside of us; we are not used at all. The disciples were doing something, but what were they doing? They baptised; we are told that the Lord did not do that Himself; the disciples did it. It is not very much (understand I am not disparaging anything that the people of God may do for the Lord) but it is not very much to be baptising. They were doing that, it says that Jesus Himself baptised not but His disciples. That is they carried on the outward thing. There is no life in that for life is not communicated by baptism, whatever orthodoxy says; it is but an outward thing which admits me outwardly into the profession, but it does not in itself admit me into the spiritual realm. I need the Holy Spirit for that, I need new birth for that, and all that the gospel proposes I need for that; an unconverted man may be baptised; we all know that. We are in the midst of the profession of millions and millions of people who have been baptised. Well, there is no credit to be attached to any baptism in that sense.

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Another thing they were doing was that they were providing provisions for the Lord; at least it does not say they were for Him, but why should they all go to buy bread, or whatever they needed. It says, "A woman comes out of Samaria to draw water. Jesus says to her, Give me to drink (for his disciples had gone away into the city that they might buy provisions)". Where the money came from to buy the provisions it does not say; it was there, they simply were buying the provisions, there is not much in that. If it be only baptising and buying provisions then the system is not being built up at all, but the Lord is building up the system, that is the point, a new system of things; He is building it up livingly, that is the word. He would do it Himself; it is remarkable how much He has to do Himself in this gospel: here He talked to the woman. They did not understand it; they wondered why she was there. Why not? She was, as it were, the symbol of the harvest; 'the fields are ripe', He said, but they did not see it. I am speaking thus that we might be on the alert that whatever we are doing must be a living matter or it is nothing, a mere outward official work without the Spirit is nothing. That is what marked these disciples here; I am not saying a word against them otherwise, but the Spirit of God gives us this remarkable picture, they baptised and bought provisions, and they did not understand why the Lord should be speaking to this woman! They were spiritual men, of course, the great founders of the system, but for the moment John is presenting them in this light. In the last chapter he presents seven of them in another light to bring out that the official position is not trustworthy in itself, it must be in the energy of the Spirit; that is why we get the living water here, to bring out the living character of things, otherwise we have nothing.

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So the Lord raises the question about drink. He had in mind to bring out this living thing, that the Father loved Him and the Father had given everything to be in His hand. Well, He says, I will bring about something for the Father, for everything must be for God; if there is no result for God, what is there? There is nothing morally. Hence you get sonship in this chapter, statements that you get nowhere else, and they are spoken to a despised Samaritan, a wicked woman. So the Lord goes on to speak about the living water, I cannot say much more, but it says, "If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that says to thee, Give me to drink, thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water". What is needed, that is virtually what He is saying, is that, to work out what is in the mind of the Father; it is a living system and a living system must have a living state of things, and as we come into it we are made part of it. How wonderful it is to have part in this living system! The woman did not understand; she has to be instructed, that is another point, to be led out of the channel of her own natural thoughts, religious thoughts; she had no reputation really, she did not deserve any recommendation religiously, but she had religious thoughts, and she refers back to the father Jacob; such people always refer to the past: I have not anything myself, but my forefathers were something. But it is a question of what I am now; that is the thing in the new system, and so the Lord proceeds to enlighten her, to lead her out of the channel of her thoughts. I can never be in the new system without that, I judge everything, the thoughts I have been engaged with whether morally or religiously; and ultimately the Lord discloses everything to her, exposes her to herself, not to anyone else, and she says, "I see [for that is the word used] that thou art a prophet". I wonder if everyone here

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sees that. You say, Of course the scripture says the Lord is a prophet, but she did not quote Scripture, she was speaking from her own soul, from her own discernment. How did she come into it? God worked with her as Jesus spoke to her and she said, "I see that thou art a prophet". Then the question of worship comes up. Many have said, Why did He speak to such a woman about worship? How incongruous it seemed! But it was not so, because she saw He was a prophet; she had come under prophetic ministry. God had come into her soul, and enabled her to see everything; she saw herself, but she saw also that that Man was a prophet; she did not go beyond her measure. I should like to have heard her say that; the Lord loved to hear her say it. It was not a natural thought, it was a spiritual thought; she is coming into the new system and I must learn Christ according to my measure, bit by bit. Well, the conversation goes on and the Lord says wonderful things to her about worship, which we often quote. Probably there is no passage with which we are more familiar in relation to the service of God than the conversation between this woman and Christ, a wonderful thing, "God is a Spirit". It is not said anywhere else as far as I know, and He says it to point out that if we worship Him it must be in spirit and in truth. It is not a question of physical places, mountain or Jerusalem, it is a question of spirituality.

Well now the woman is led on, and she comes to it; and when the disciples come back they are out of the whole matter; it is a very solemn thing for them. It is one of the most interesting episodes in the history of Christ on this earth, and they are out of it. The reason is obvious: they were unduly occupied with their official position. They baptised and they bought provisions. What were they doing in the town? Were they evangelising the town? There is not the slightest evidence of that; the work

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was going on by the Lord Himself. He found this woman, and when the disciples came on the scene I believe the conversation had ended, the whole matter was settled before they came. Had it not been they would have interfered undoubtedly, but they did not, they merely marvelled that He talked with the woman, that was all, and that was not any help at all. If I am in a meeting, if I say anything I want to help the brethren, not hinder them; there was not a bit of help in this remark. They marvelled that He talked with the woman. Why did they not say to the Lord, Is this a convert?. Is this woman interested? I am not disparaging the sensibilities of these men, because they were most wonderful men; I am not saying I would have been any better than they, but the picture is at their expense, so that we may not be found in such a case. Why should I not say, if I see a woman like this talking with the Lord Jesus or with a servant of Christ. Is she a convert? is she interested in the truth? No, they did not say that, they wondered why it should be. Why should it not be? And so the Lord says to them, "I have meat to eat that ye know not of". It is a scathing remark, showing that they were out of the thing. Why should I be out of the thing? If I am with God I will be in it. But He says, You do not know this matter.

Now I come back to the woman just to point out that she came into the system. It says "The woman then left her water-pot". The word 'then' is to call attention to a spiritual movement, as over against the attitude of the disciples. There is no spiritual movement with them at the moment, but there is in this person, the Lord has done His work and the effect of it is that she left her water-pot, for that belonged to the old system -- it is a type of it -- and she went away to the city. It means that she understood that the water that He gave her, the

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living water, was to be in her, that she was to be a vessel in the divine service, that is the idea, a containing vessel, but a vessel that can be used for the help of others, for later it is said, "Out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water", and this dear believer becomes a containing vessel, a dispensing vessel. That is the idea in John; it is all a living matter, dear brethren. Then she goes after the men and says, "Come, see a man". She is an evangelist. It is again "Come and see", as much as to say, I have discovered who He is, "Is not he the Christ?". It is a question not of doubt, but of certainty, and they came to him. "Then they went out of the city, and came unto him". That means they are leaving their moorings.

Then later it says, "Many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did ... and many more believed because of his own word; and said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world". Would she be jealous about that? that they did not believe as much because of her as they did because of Jesus? No, she would say, That is exactly what I expected. What can be more desirable in testimony than that you direct souls to Jesus? "Come, see a man". And they went, they left the city, too, meaning that you leave your natural environments and moorings, to go to Christ, "Come, see a man", and they went. Then afterwards the Spirit of God would comment on this woman, that many of them believed on account of her. He would honour her as in the system; she is now doing the same work as Christ, and yet the disciples are out of it. The Lord is rebuking them in what He is saying after she left, but she is carrying on, and that is the point. As come into this thing through Christ, through

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His servants, through the gospel, I become part of it, and I go on in it, and then my body that was once dishonouring is now constituted a vessel, a containing vessel for the greatest thing possible, the living water; it is springing up into everlasting life, God-ward, but it is flowing out to men too, and God honours this woman and the Spirit of God says many believed on Him because of her word. They believed, but they say, 'we believed more after we heard Him', and that would delight any true servant of Christ.

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PROPHETIC MINISTRY BEARING ON SERVANTS AND SERVICE

2 Samuel 7:14 - 18; 2 Samuel 12:7 - 9, 24, 25; 1 Kings 1:22 - 37

J.T. What is in mind is to call attention to prophetic ministry as bearing on the servants of God and on the service of God. We are all servants, but those more particularly in mind are those engaged in the divine service. Prophetic ministry is, of course, part of God's service, but in Nathan it assumes a Davidic character. According to the record his ministry has David in mind, and eventuates in Solomon, who is indicated in 2 Samuel 7, although not named. This is the first important service of Nathan, and his message has in mind the limitation of David in his service, and the introduction of a son. The result with David was that he went in and sat before Jehovah, so that the service, whilst limiting him, added to him qualitatively. He sat before the Lord, implying that he had gained through the message and moved in the light of the liberty of sonship. Then the next message, or service of Nathan, eventuates in the actual son, Solomon; but, although it dealt with a most grievous crime, David himself increases in spiritual power and becomes a worshipper again through Nathan's service under God. Then Nathan is employed to give the supreme touch to the event, in that he is said to name Solomon, the son already intimated, Jedidiah, which means that Jehovah loved him, so that we have quality again. Finally, we have, through Nathan's service, Solomon on the throne. It is clear, therefore, that this prophet's service, according to the records, is almost entirely engaged with David and Solomon, and the service eventuates in the worship of God in the greatest quality hitherto seen. He writes of David after his

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death, and he writes of Solomon too, and we are told that he had part in the very ordering of the service of God in conjunction with the king. So that it seems to me that this line of thought in connection with Nathan would elevate our thoughts as to prophetic ministry which God is stressing, how that it reaches high, so to say, and produces spiritual quality amongst those who are serving.

C.A.C. Would you say that it implies conditions that are not quite suitable to God to begin with, but which are adjusted?

J.T. That is right. Nathan seems to be honoured in that he is dealing with the remarkable effect of the work of God. We may regard David as outstanding as representing the work of God, but he showed himself in these instances as adjustable. The more the work of God has effect in us the more adjustable we shall be. Nathan showed at the outset that he was thoroughly sympathetic with David; he was not a critic or a complainer; David too had confidence in him. If one is seeking to serve the saints as subjects of the work of God, it is a great matter to ensure their confidence. Normally, if one is sent of God he would inspire confidence in the brethren, and I think David clearly had confidence in Nathan, for he told him what was in his heart. In the earlier verses it says, "And it came to pass when the king dwelt in his house, and Jehovah had given him rest round about from all his enemies, that the king said to Nathan the prophet, See now, I dwell in a house of cedars, and the ark of God dwells under curtains. And Nathan said to the king, Go, do all that is in thy heart; for Jehovah is with thee". He has no criticism to make, he is with the king, evidently having his confidence, and hence, David would all the more readily receive his message. If we have the confidence of the brethren, we shall have power with them.

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G.C.S. Would Saul be a contrast? He never seems to have got the gain of Samuel's ministry.

J.T. Whereas David never resents any criticism or reproof on the part of his prophets, namely Nathan and Gad; he is always amenable to their rebukes. We shall never get any gain from the ministry meetings, as we rightly call them, unless we, especially those who serve, come in this attitude of soul. That those who would serve them should have their confidence is seen here in Nathan. Evidently he had David's confidence, and he shows he was worthy of it, for he had no criticism of his thought to build a house, and so David is all the more ready to listen to the message. But what is particularly in mind is to show the exalted results of this ministry of Nathan. It is, I believe, set down in the scripture for this purpose, all else left out but what bears on David and Solomon.

Ques. What was the difference between the three seers -- Nathan, Gad and Heman? I wondered why the three were mentioned.

J.T. It seems to me that David must have encouraged the prophetic ministry. Samuel occupied a different position from either of those three, he was never regarded as one of David's prophets, but we see how David valued him. I think those three allude to the spirit of encouragement which David accorded to the prophets and the liberty with him that he clearly afforded them. The influence of the king was so great that it was of all importance he should be kept right, and so today it is of all importance that those who are serving in a prominent way should be kept right. Their influence is necessarily great. The bearing of such a ministry is qualitative; it results in quality such as is needed in the service of God. Hence the Lord is helping us to steer away from Philistine methods, such as the saints suffered from

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earlier, and get us on to the Davidic line of things, making for quality in the service of God.

Ques. Do you think we should be concerned that the underlying circumstances of such a meeting would warrant the Lord giving a definite word and some definite result for the increase of the service of God?

J.T. Exactly; that is what I was thinking, and if there is mutual confidence in the prophets the bearing of the message will be to increase spirituality. There is a beautiful confidence between David and Nathan. I suppose his thought was that David was on the right line. His judgment was right that there should be a house, "Nathan said to the king, Go, do all that is in thy heart; for Jehovah is with thee". There was no doubt about the thought being right, and that Jehovah was with him, for it was a fact that Jehovah was with him. Nathan's name means a gift, and at a time like this David would value such a man, especially after this message. David would feel himself a greater man after he received Nathan's message than he was before, for we never read of his going in and sitting before Jehovah before, and we have to attribute it to Nathan's message. So, Nathan would be more lovable to David henceforth.

J.S. Would you say that the more the work of God goes on in a man's soul the more he will appreciate one like Nathan, what God gives, however humbling it may be?

J.T. And not only so, but a gift, as we were saying. The Lord having gone on high has given gifts to men, prophets, evangelists, shepherds, teachers and the like, but Nathan is more than that. The man, I think, is peculiarly so. Attention is drawn, not only to the gift the man has, but to the man himself. His name means a gift, and he is mentioned here for the first time, so as to express what David's mind would be, how a man's service in the ministry is endeared to us and the man himself, because of his

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manner and ways. He is with you as far as he can go, not on a critical line, but with you as far as he can go. He is with God too, and that is the principal thing. He is available to God, and so we get him here, as it says, "And it came to pass that night that the word of Jehovah came to Nathan". It would look as if he was a man God could act upon when he was by himself.

Rem. So if I am one who serves, I should expect God to speak to me in the ministry meeting, as well as to any.

J.T. Jehovah spoke to him at night. It would indicate that God would have him by himself. The Lord speaks of how His reins instructed Him in the night seasons. The night seasons should enable us to be available to God to speak to us, not only in the meetings, but alone -- in our quiet moments.

G.C.S. The Lord was all day in the temple, but at night on the mountain, in His own sphere with God.

J.T. That is what is stated: "Jesus went to the mount of Olives". I suppose if we could have seen the Lord in the night seasons on the mount of Olives we would have been impressed with His attitude. On one occasion He went out to Bethany to spend the night, which would indicate what one finds amongst the brethren, but generally, whilst He was in Jerusalem, His resort was in the mount of Olives; the others went to their own homes.

F.W.W. Why does Nathan trace David's history back to the time when he was taken from following the sheep?

J.T. I suppose that would bring home to David what God had done for him. It is well to go over our histories in that way. It says, "I took thee from the pasture-grounds, from following the sheep, to be prince over my people, over Israel; and I have been with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies from before thee, and have

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made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are on the earth". It would remind him of what God had done for him.

F.W.W. Would it suggest also a good place to start in the service of God, looking after the sheep?

J.T. Yes. The facts relative to him in his youth would honour God viewed from that point of view. He had a spiritual ancestry too. Joseph had instructed his five brethren as to what Pharaoh would ask them as to their occupation; they were to say that they were shepherds and their fathers were too, and yet that was a reproach in Egypt. But here it would be to show that God had taken him from such lowly occupation, and, as it says, "made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are on the earth". The Lord had said in regard of the disciples, "I will make you ..."; He took them from their fishing boats, and made them fishers of men.

E.E.B. Does it show in any way how we need to continue in the thought of mercy? This great servant has a sense of what God had done entirely. It was nothing of himself, but what God had made him.

J.T. That is what we must keep steadily in mind, that whatever one is is what he is made. God loves to make us something too, but He makes us for Himself.

Ques. Is your thought that the prophetic ministry would maintain David in that position?

J.T. It comes in here at a time of needed regulation, which we all need, especially those who serve, even although we may be getting on to the end. A prophetic word conveys to us the mind of God as to us, and the mind of God is to limit me. It was to limit David here, and yet to enlarge him in another sense, for he is perfectly satisfied with the adjustment. He went in and sat before the Lord, the message beautifully couched in grace indicating what a beloved

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man Nathan was. So it says, "According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak to David". It is the kind of thing, what ministry really is. You get a word from the Lord as you wait upon Him for the brethren, and then He is well able to clothe it properly according to His mind. So, in the visit of Moses to the mount, the communications were "after the tenor of these words", meaning that God had confidence in Moses that he would convey things after the tenor of what Jehovah had said.

Ques. So, would it stir up the very best that the work of God is capable of bringing about in the persons to whom it appeals?

J.T. If God is sending a message to you He has the whole field of service in mind, and as David says, He speaks "for a great while to come", and the limitations He may impose upon us indicate that He has somebody else in mind to do the work better, for God understands each vessel and has them for a certain purpose. The truth is, the message is to make way for sonship. Solomon is not yet mentioned by name, but as the son; and that shows what God is doing. He is stressing sonship, so that each one of us takes his place restfully before God, instead of being too much aglow with his service and talking about it. As with the disciples, they came back and told the Lord how much they had done, cast out demons and healed the sick, but the Lord said, Do not rejoice in that, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven. Really, it is sonship being impressed upon us, that each one is greater than his service.

A.J.G. Is that in order that the servant may exemplify what his service is intended to produce?

J.T. The servant ought to be personally greater. In truth, in the divine mind, he is greater than his service, and sonship is the thought.

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Rem. Nathan does not resent the word; he is perfectly sympathetic with it.

J.T. Yes, and he speaks well of him, and gives him a great place, and the Lord said He would establish his kingdom. The thought is that one becomes restful as to the future; matters are all settled, and this message is from God, and is adjusting upon me, limiting my service. God being infinite in wisdom; but He is speaking well of me all the time and showing me as to His will in the future, speaking "for a great while to come". So we are restful, and nothing can be better than God's ordering for us; even limitation does not interfere with that.

C.A.C. And He brings in a great thought that had not been in David's mind, bringing in the thought of the son, and enlargement.

J.T. That is what I thought. It was really an extension of David, so to speak. It was what would come from him, and it seems as if David's soul was enlarged by the thought, and it is indicated by the fact that he goes in and sits before the Lord. The mind of God was concerning things to come, greater than He had said before.

Now in the next passage, David is a great sinner, reminding us of what the most prominent is liable to, a very humbling thing. Again, it is Nathan, and, although he is directed by Jehovah, it does not seem as if Jehovah told him to speak the parable. It just says, "And Jehovah sent Nathan to David", but he spoke the parable himself. It would look as if he would break the matter to David in a gracious way, so that he condemns himself before he knows it. Great ministers are liable to excuse themselves, but David is condemning himself before he knows it. That shows the skill of Nathan. Then we are told in verse 7, "And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man!", and then it says what Jehovah said.

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F.W.W. What is the bearing of this second incident in regard to Nathan?

J.T. I think it is to bring out what we were saying at the beginning in the way of positive results. After all, what is ministry if there are no results? But it seems as if God is honouring prophetic ministry in a supreme way in showing results in Nathan. It brings about worship in David, and then Nathan is sent to name the son he had already spoken about. David called him Solomon, which was right, but the name given by Nathan is Jedidiah. He is used in it and has part in the actual result. He sent and named him Jedidiah, as if a brother is able to see the most refined result of his service and able to name it. It is what God loves, a result for God.

L.D.M. It is a beautiful touch, "for Jehovah's sake".

J.T. Showing Jehovah's part in the thing. He has part in these meetings, and we may be sure He will get the best. He knows how to single out what there is for Him, and here it is Jedidiah, what Jehovah loves. Surely every true servant would have that in mind, what Jehovah loves.

A.J.G. Does it show that prophetic ministry will necessarily take account of moral conditions among the people of God, and always has in view the end that God is working for?

J.T. I think that is right. The Scriptures afford us, even if in an abstract way, what the divine intent is. Ephesians is that; it is generally an abstract view, that we are raised up together and made to sit down together in heavenly places. It is anticipative, but it is the mind of God. It is what He has in mind and what He loves. The epistle begins with what is before Him, that we are to be before Him in love. So the minister has that in mind; he aims high, having in mind something for God.

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Ques. Does prophetic ministry bring us into the presence of God?

J.T. That is what we see here supremely. David is brought into the presence of God in each case, and in this particular instance he writes a psalm which must have been extremely pleasing to God. Nathan's name is brought into it, showing that he is carried on into the result, for the psalm must be for God.

Ques. Would David represent the real character of the saints here, as well as being a servant?

J.T. Quite so. There are excellent qualities in him, as was remarked at the beginning. He stands out as representing the work of God, and I believe this is the explanation of the great place given him, God viewing His work abstractly. Aside from all his terrible failures, the work was there.

Rem. So Jedidiah would be the extension of David, David meaning 'beloved', and Jedidiah 'beloved of Jehovah'.

J.T. So it is the continuation of David really, for it is stressed earlier that he was to be David's son.

Ques. Would you say why the name Jedidiah is not referred to again, but Solomon is?

J.T. That name is for God, you know, God, I suppose, acting on this name and what it means. Solomon, corresponding with it, pleased God. What Solomon said after the appearance to him in the vision pleased God, showing he was lovable to God. When he prayed too, the house was filled with the glory, showing how delightful he was to God in those circumstances. You may be sure Jedidiah will not fade away; it is God's part in Solomon really. God said of Jacob that He loved him, but it was at the end (Malachi 1:3). But here it is clearly a type of Jesus, what God has in Christ as Man; "for Jehovah's sake". How that would be in the mind of the Lord Jesus in His life here!

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C.A.C. And the thought of God extending to the many sons.

J.T. Quite so. Then the final word brings out the vigilance of the prophet, still bearing on David and Solomon. He is not occupied with the antichristian element, but with those God is using. Prophecy, of course, deals with men, as we see in 1 Corinthians 14a man comes in and falls down and judges himself as the effect of prophecy; but Nathan's service bears on those actively in the service of God, to promote better conditions among the people of God as a whole, to improve God's inheritance.

A.J.G. Nathan's first movement in this chapter is towards Bathsheba. Would she represent those cherishing the peculiar light God has given at any moment?

J.T. Just so. She was, however, a little remiss. You are struck with the apathy that existed at the beginning of this book. Why should it be so in the leading persons? What would have happened? But Nathan goes to Bathsheba, for she had a promise, and it is a good thing to remind people who are apathetic of promise. She was the one to go to, for she was the mother of Solomon.

Ques. When David speaks, he speaks in regard to three persons, Nathan, Zadok and Benaiah. Would Nathan represent the prophetic word, Zadok the priestly service, and Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, the power of the Spirit?

J.T. What was in mind was to bring out how Nathan's ministry has to do with David. Bathsheba is essential to this matter, because she had the promise. Those three men are brought in, but we are speaking particularly of Nathan. He had to do, first of all, with calling attention to sonship, and then with the son himself coming into the scene, and now with the son on the throne. We are coming to the acme of the matter, for it is a question of sonship being enthroned.

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If you can enthrone the idea in the hearts of the brethren, you will secure great results. That is what Nathan is aiming at, and in his actual part in the enthroning of Solomon you see the vigilance that attached to him, going to the right person, the mother of Solomon, who had the promise. Nathan puts the suggestion in her mind in verse 11: "And Nathan spoke to Bathsheba the mother of Solomon, saying, Hast thou not heard that Adonijah the son of Haggith is king, and David our lord does not know it? And now, come, let me, I pray thee, give thee counsel, that thou mayest save thine own life, and the life of thy son Solomon. Go and get thee in to king David", and so forth, which she did, and David listened to her. Then Nathan comes in, "And behold, while she yet talked with the king, Nathan the prophet also came in. And they told the king saying, Behold, Nathan the prophet. And when he was come in before the king, he bowed himself before the king with his face to the ground". We do not get this before. "And Nathan said, My lord, O king, hast thou said, Adonijah shall reign after me, and he shall sit on my throne?". He gives him the facts, and then the king said, "Call me Bathsheba". So the order is perfect; it is a question of his promise. She is the mother, and Nathan understands thoroughly how to bring Bathsheba into the matter. The promise was hers; he was her son, but the authority was vested in David, and so Nathan puts it in that way, and the king says, "Call me Bathsheba", and he fulfils his word to her. "And the king swore, and said, As Jehovah liveth, who has redeemed my soul out of all distress, even as I swore to thee by Jehovah the God of Israel, saying, Solomon thy son shall reign after me, and he shall sit on my throne in my stead; even so will I certainly do this day". So the matter is settled from David's point of view, and then the king said, "Call me Zadok the priest, and

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Nathan the prophet, and Benaiah the son of Jehoiada". It is now the priest; he is perfectly in keeping with Nathan's mind; it is the king; it is Solomon; it is the will of God.

Rem. It seems as if this enthronement of sonship among the saints depends on prophetic ministry.

J.T. It is very striking, and illustrates the actual facts of the present time.

C.A.C. It does not merely rebuke what needs to be corrected, but brings in the supreme thought of God.

Rem. At one time we were content with reading meetings, but now the prophetic ministry is coming more to the front.

J.T. That is right, and now we should be concerned as to the quality of the prophetic ministry, what it is aiming at and what the result is to be in me.

Ques. What if we did not have a prophetic ministry?

J.T. There would be no Nathans. That is the thing to look for now, not only a prophet, but a Nathan. What we should aim at is the quality of the prophet himself, not only the word heard in the meeting, but what kind of man it is who gives it.

Ques. We read that "Judas and Silas, being themselves also prophets, exhorted the brethren with much discourse, and strengthened them", Acts 15:32. Would strengthening the brethren be the result of prophetic ministry being carried on?

J.T. That was a most critical time.

C.A.C. You would look for something very positive in the ministry on those occasions.

J.T. It is important, I am sure, that those who are more distinguished in those meetings should make room for the younger men. One has considerable experience, for one moves about so much, but I think the Lord is helping. Indeed, it is in keeping with David and Solomon, that is, the old and the

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young together. David made Solomon king before he died himself, and he spoke of him as young and tender before God, and in Chronicles it goes on to say that the people made him king the second time. David had made him king, but the people said, We like that young man, and they made him king the second time; he has proved himself. The apostle said to Timothy, "Let no man despise thy youth", and if the young men are doing that, they will not be despised. And David himself is evidently so pleased with the co-operation of Solomon that he reduces the age of the Levites from twenty-five to twenty, to increase their number. So there is no ban on the younger brethren today, but they must not let their youth be despised, and I think Solomon is an example of that, that the saints like him and accord him a greater place.

Ques. Is the cause of possible weakness with us a lack of waiting? One sees the meetings are quickly taken up, whereas we might get a more definite word if there were a little more waiting.

J.T. I believe another thing to be said is that there is too much preparation before the meetings. The instructions given as to these meetings imply that a revelation is made to one sitting by. Well, I would like to be that one, not simply that I follow on what a brother has said, which is not always acceptable. Something revealed to another sitting by is not what another has been saying, but something distinctive.

F.W.W. Nathan seemed to know the right moment to come in. Do you think that is important in these meetings, if you have got a word, to know the right moment to come in?

J.T. That is very good, I think a study of Nathan would greatly help us on the high side of prophetic ministry, the skill with which he acts and the results he reaches on each occasion, all bearing on quality.

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Rem. So Solomon as a young man asks for wisdom.

J.T. That is why God said He liked what he said and gave him abundantly what he needed. As it says in Chronicles, David made him king, and the people made him king the second time, and then he sat on the throne of Jehovah, showing the progress of the idea, that one occupies the throne of Jehovah.

Ques. Do you think that Paul bringing Timothy forward would have in mind the extension of the prophetic operations, so he says in the second epistle; "Remember Jesus Christ raised from among the dead, of the seed of David, according to my glad tidings"?

J.T. Just so. He must have had peculiar pleasure in Timothy, and yet he was not without his discrepancies. I suppose Paul's service to him would be very much like that of Nathan. In fact, he tells him in the first epistle, that his gift was through prophecy, an important matter, but confirmed by the laying on of the hands of the elderhood. That is, God puts a man forward through prophecy, and the elderhood, referring to the brethren in responsibility, lay their hands on the young man.

F.I. Would Nathan represent one who comes forward with a definite exercise as to what he sees in the conditions?

J.T. He sees the situation, and says, What will happen if I do not do something?

F.I. You said you would like to sit by and receive a revelation: is there not the side of having that which is the outcome of considerable exercise in regard of conditions?

J.T. That is quite right: "Each of you has a psalm", or whatever it may be. It is quite right that we should come with things, not simply something made up. A psalm would be experience, but what

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follows is that someone receives something by revelation. Revelation is in the meeting, which is a very great and exalted thought, that we are in such a state that there can be such a thing as that in our day.

E.E.B. What would the counsel that Nathan gives Bathsheba to save her life and that of the king, represent? Would that come in in any way in connection with prophetic ministry?

J.T. It is all the elements that are essential to the movement. She had a right according to the promise, and of course, today that refers to all of us.

G.C.S. The man in 1 Corinthians 14 says that God is amongst you, that is, in the company.

J.T. How great it is that there is such a thing in our day, that God can make a revelation on the spot. It is available and within our reach.

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REACTION TO THE INFLUENCE OF CHRIST

John 4:28 - 30; John 12:1 - 3; Luke 24:30 - 33; Mark 14:26; Acts 1:10 - 13

I hope to show that there is a link between all these scriptures. They show the effect of the teaching and influence of Christ upon those who, as the subjects of the work of God, receive that teaching and come under that influence; that there is a favourable or positive reaction to our listening to and coming under the influence of Christ. Such a meeting as this, in itself, may not result in anything that is intended in some of us; indeed, there may be a reaction in a negative sense. Persons listening to the truth and coming under the influence of such an occasion, in which Christ has His part, after returning to their several abodes, definitely allow personal feelings or prejudice, or worldly influences to cause reaction in a negative way. It often happens. It is the work of the devil, and as a rule the influence spreads. What I have in mind is reaction in a positive sense, that the truth and divine influence, if allowed, and they will be allowed in those in whom normally God acts, will act and react in keeping with the truth and influence brought to bear upon us.

It may be in an evangelical sense. The Spirit of God in such meetings as this often presents Christ according to what is needed in a general way, and in specific cases in a personal way with evangelical feeling, as it were, for God would have the gospel continued. He is governing the world with that in mind, holding His hand on everything. He has His creation, seen in the race of mankind in His mind, and the world being still in reconciliation, He is ordering things in it with a view to the gospel being continued, as the apostle Paul said, that the elect "may obtain

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the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory", 2 Timothy 2:10. That is a very fine thought, and God would have it nurtured, and not that only, but that the testimony of Christ and His work should continue to be proclaimed; as it is said, "For God is one, and the mediator of God and men one, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony to be rendered in its own times" (1 Timothy 2:5, 6), and that is the present time. That time has not disappeared or come to an end, it still exists; "the testimony to be rendered in its own times".

Now I make a few remarks in regard to this woman in John 4. It is one of the chapters that perhaps yields the most, certainly evangelically, in John's gospel. And coming to the reaction with her, a blessed reaction, what is to be pointed out is that the Lord dealt with her by herself. There were those who had the distinction of being His servants, namely the apostles. They are not mentioned as apostles here, but are called disciples. Sometimes the term is used as denoting disciples who were distinctive, as it is said in chapter 2: "His disciples believed on him". They are distinctive as having part in the service, and what comes out is that they are said to be baptisers; they were baptising, a matter that does not require much spirituality. It is a necessary service, something that should be done by a brother in the locality, which is scriptural as I understand it. Others make much of a distinguished brother, that he should do it, but in either case it is not a matter requiring spiritual intelligence or spirituality. But they were accredited as doing it, and they are also said to be buying provisions at this particular juncture, another service that requires but little spirituality, so they are evidently out of this matter, one of the finest bits of spiritual work recorded in this gospel.

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I speak, no doubt, to those who serve especially, for we do not want to be in any sense out of what is going on spiritually. Local matters, of course, in each gathering, include material affairs, necessary things, but let no one confine himself to those things. Even the deacons appointed to ordinary service of this kind soon graduated, and two of them, Stephen and Philip, "purchased to themselves a good degree". Of course, there is the hewing of wood and drawing of water for the congregation of the Lord, but then there is promotion in the realm of God, and promotion implies what is spiritual. The disciples in this chapter seem to be missing; indeed they were missing; they were out of the current of the spiritual activities of Christ in their relation to the living water. Hewing of wood and drawing of water is hardly up to this. This woman had come to draw water, but she had connected it with an ordinary vessel, a water-pot, and rightly too, but the Lord's instruction led on to living water.

I can only say very little on the subject, because of the other scriptures, but she listened. She was very natural in her thoughts at the beginning, extremely so, and pretentious too, but the skilled hand of the Master brought her on to the spiritual line. That is what everyone who serves Christ would seek to do, to bring the saints on to a spiritual line, and one of the surest evidences of this is that one says, as this woman did, "I see that thou art a prophet". He did not say He was; He told her He was the Christ later on, which was a very remarkable thing, but she began to exercise spiritual faculties. The subjective work of God, of course, is required for this to come into action, and chapter 3 lays that basis. The basis may be laid, and yet worldliness coming in often hinders its normal operation, but in this case she reacted very quickly to what the Lord was saying to her, and she said, "I see that thou art a

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prophet". Sometimes we remark that we marvel that the Lord should have spoken to her about worship; but the reason was that she began to see things, and she was being drawn out of her own life. She was seeing things, and the conversation proceeds until the disciples came on the scene again. Now, you say, there will be a good meeting, but where are those disciples? They are quite out of the current of things. As is often the case, those reputed to be such are doing something else, whether it be baptising or buying provisions, or something else of that kind; they are out of the current of the spiritual work of Christ, and they do not add at all to this position. What a fine opportunity it was for a good time. The Lord would not be averse to it; He is never averse to spiritual additions. But can John add anything to this matter, or Peter? There is no evidence that they did. The Lord and the woman were going on with something, and the disciples came on the scene but they did not link on with it. I do not want to be like that, I want to be able to link on at once with what God is doing, not seeming to be foreign to it. In fact, there were certain aspersions in their minds as to the thing; they wondered that He should speak with the woman; they were utterly out of it.

But then, what about her? Was she damaged by them? Thank God, no, but she rightly withdrew. We do well to withdraw from unspiritual conditions, for they will soon dampen the ardour that the blessed ministry of Christ has produced. We do well to take notice of these things, and of our companionships. Very often in meetings, unspiritual links with persons invited for fellowship become leaven. We are to withdraw from unspiritual conditions, especially if discipline is involved. The Lord would not bring in the natural state; He rebuked it. They said, "Master, eat"; they were occupied with the material, but He

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said, "I have food to eat which ye do not know". How solemn that was, and how humbling! He knew all about their buying provisions, and no doubt if they were buying fish they would know how to buy it to the best advantage. But here was something they knew nothing about. We do not want to be outside of what is current in this way.

So she left her water-pot. We have often spoken of it, but I only mention it to show how the truth reacted upon her. She said, in effect, This water-pot is not the idea. The disciples in their state at that time were ready to speak about that sort of thing, but the Lord had been speaking to her in a spiritual sense and she appropriated the significance of His ministry, and she "left her water-pot and went away into the city, and says to the men, Come, see a man who told me all things I had ever done: is not he the Christ?" -- and they came. It was not, Go, see a man; the Man is, as it were, in her heart; He was not at a distance from her; Jesus was in her heart, "If Christ be in you, the body is dead" (Romans 8:10), and that was exactly the case with her. That vessel is left; what she is naturally is discarded for what she is spiritually. The Lord had introduced the thought of a spiritual containing vessel, and she says, I am going to be that. That is reaction, and how useful anyone is who reacts like that to the truth of the gospel. If I react in that sense, the Lord can take me on and use me in the gospel, as in her case. The point is that the reaction has constituted her a vessel for living water.

Now this gospel is full of this thought, really involving sons of light. She became a son of light. In chapter 12, the Lord said, "While ye have the light, believe in the light, that ye may become sons of light" (verse 36). That is what is presented: believe in the thing. This woman believed in what was presented to her, and it was developed in her soul,

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and she became a son of light. It is not children of light, but sons, developed persons, and so, in the next scripture I read, we have a class of nobles, a veritable galaxy of nobles, sons of light. They have reacted to the light; they have believed in it. It is not simply something to be admired and spoken about, but believed in: "Believe in the light", and then you become sons of light.

So that the reaction in chapter 12 is of a group of sons of light; the whole scene is radiant with light. Jesus came to the town; that was the reaction in Him, so to say, speaking reverently. He had ministered to them and raised Lazarus, and He had in mind to come back. That is a lovely thought in Jesus. If He causes something to take effect in my soul He will come back as regards it. It was a question of what was effected in Lazarus -- "Where Lazarus was", as it says, and the reaction with them was that "they made him a supper". But it is not that He is going to have it alone. It is what He is looking for. The wonderful light had been shining; they had believed in it, and now they are sons of it. See how nobly they acted. They acted like grown persons; there is no longer any bitter complaint on the part of Martha, everything is in perfect order; they are governed by the light; they are sons of light, and they made Him a supper.

Now this matter becomes progressive if an event of this kind takes place as we are together. The table was laid, Martha was there serving, and Lazarus was sitting at table with Him. It is a glorious scene. The matter is His, but Lazarus is there. Lazarus never shone better than now; Martha never shone better than now, and Mary never shone better than now, and conversely Judas never shone worse. Evil is also exposed, but this beautiful scene brings out Mary. She is the one the Spirit of God has in mind, and the very scene produces reaction in her. She

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has got something, an accumulation of wealth, and she has it for the great occasion.

That is all I should say there, and I go on to Luke. John shows spiritual energy at work in Christ, outside of the official class, and that there is positive result, but Luke, being a priest, would show us how reaction takes place where restoration is necessary. It may be there are those in this audience who have wandered from Christ. They may be attending the meetings as yet, but in heart they have wandered. Luke, being priestly, would show the reactive effect of the kind of grace needed for restoration, the Lord intimating that when He said to Peter, "When thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren". I suppose Peter was more useful after his restoration than before. The divine intent with us, however serious the defection may be, is that the will of God may be accomplished through it, that we are to be made better through it, and Luke would depict the reaction of restorative grace.

So it is that the Lord had gone after these two and walked along with them without letting them know it was Himself. It is a wonderful priestly touch that we get in this chapter. And presently He expounds to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. Think of the wonderful patience and tender care of the Lord, unfolding the scriptures about Himself, about Christ. If one is to be restored it must be a question of Christ, not to turn now to prophetic or other subjects. No, those are not the things for restoration. I believe John's gospel is the great gospel for that. He begins with Christ and persons who were alienated, from religious influence and the like. If they are christians at all they will listen to a word about Christ. So the Lord, "beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself". What glories He brought before them, one

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after another, "the things concerning himself". Yet it only caused their hearts to burn. That is the progress of restoring grace. If I have not a heart to burn at the unfolding of Christ, at His own touch, His own service, well, there is no hope for me at all. How can I resist it? People get away, and come under ministry, and yet their hearts are like stones, and we begin to give up hope for them. Sometimes one is compelled to say, "If any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant"; it is the governmental judgment of God. But not so these two. There was hope for them, and the Lord knew it, and He went into the house, "He made as though he would go farther". He is aiming at them, as at somebody here tonight, and they constrained Him, and He sits down and takes the place of the house-father.

Think of how far the Lord will go to restore. Mark tells us that "he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country". Why should the Lord put Himself to the necessity of taking another form to restore two persons? They were going to the country, another thing to be noted, dear brethren. Beware of going into the country in the days of christianity. But they constrained Him, and He went in and sat down -- what a lovely scene that was -- and took the house-father's place. He had that; not that He wanted to shine in any way, but to get at them, and He broke the bread and vanished.

Well, the reaction is that they returned the same hour to Jerusalem. There was immediate reaction, and what a blessed one it was; and the Lord knew it, as He anticipated the effect of restorative grace. If God is working in the recovery of souls in this hour, John would give the prophetic or spiritual side of the position, but Luke would show that the reaction to the ministry of Christ in restoring grace is that you come to the public position, that there is something

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public for God. Surely there is. Let us never give that up, however small and despicable it may appear to be. If God is working, it is that you might give lustre to the public position. You identify yourself with others who are gathered wherever the authority of Christ is owned. That is the point here; they came and found the eleven, those who maintained the authority of Christ. That is the action of restorative grace which is going on every day, that you come to the public position, wherever the authority of Christ is. You say, I never heard of those who have gone forth without the camp. Why did you not hear? The thing is of God. Let us not consider for ignorance. Ignorance is ignorance, and if you have not heard, let people know, for you should have heard. So they came back and found the eleven, and it is for you to find where the eleven are. You understand I am speaking of the authority of Christ, these men represent the authority of Christ, and as they came in amongst them they were talking about restoration; they said that the Lord Jesus was risen. If you go into any ordinary company of people in the world, you will never hear them say that; you will hear them talking about the politics of the day. But here they were talking about the resurrection of Christ, and saying He had appeared to Simon, a man who had sinned grievously. The Lord selected him to appear to. That is what Luke is setting before us, and if there is anyone here needing restoration, this is the truth for you, and the Lord is looking for reaction to this truth in a positive way, that you come in and recognise the authority of Christ. If you have sinned, acknowledge it. Peter did, and the Lord came in, and these two were able to add that He was known to them in the breaking of bread.

I just go on to the last two scriptures. I refer to Mark, and then later again to Luke, in regard of the assembly, where the authority of Christ is publicly

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owned. Now I want just to say a word about the effect of the Lord's supper itself. What happened at Emmaus was not the Lord's supper, but the Lord suggested it in the way He broke the bread and vanished; He did not stay there. He does not vanish out of the assembly after the breaking of bread; it brings Him in, and He loves to stay, as I hope to show. But Mark gives a peculiar touch in regard of the Lord's supper; he makes much of the way to it. Being the levitical gospel, he makes much of how you reach the place, not on the principle of recovery but on the principle of ministry, a man with a pitcher of water. It is not that you have sinned or strayed, but you follow the ministry and you find the place. Other things happened during the passover, for the passover is not so much separated from the Lord's supper here as in Luke. What I want to show is that the way to the assembly proper is by glory; it is "from glory to glory". That is the principle. Believers today, who are assembly persons, who belong to the assembly characteristically, leave their dwelling places in glory. They have read the Scriptures and had prayer, and they move on to the room in glory, and sit down in glory. It must be glorious in some sense to answer to divine rights, for the assembly is divine property; it is the assembly of God. It is not a common thing. I am afraid many of us treat it as if it were common, but it is a glorious thing. So we sit down and proceed, and there is the incoming of Christ in the bread to shine in glory. That is what it is, "from glory to glory". The cup comes too, and has its own glory, and the box is not without its glory, if you will understand. Its proper setting is there; it is public; it is glorious. The more I see that, the more I put into it, as much as I can afford, I do not want to detract from the idea. The Lord shows the glory of it when He says of a poor widow that she cast in more than they all.

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It was glorious, and the Lord implied immediately that the temple was not great enough for that. Another temple must come in; of the old, not a stone should be left upon a stone.

So everything is glorious as we proceed; and not only glorious, but we begin to move in our affections. It says that they sung a hymn. Was that merely because it was customary at the passover? I do not think so at all. It was not customary to the Lord's supper either, for there never had been a Lord's supper before. They sung after the Lord had spoken about the cup. He had spoken about the bread too, but what I want to bring out is this, that assembly service is progressive, deeper and deeper into glory. Why did they not sing when they came in? It does not say they did, nor does it say they sung after the passover. Mark would show there was glory in what the Lord said and did. Their hearts were aglow; they were moved by the light that shone, and the reaction was that they sang a hymn; they did it. The Lord is content, if I may say so reverently, to drop out; He is not mentioned here. Mark would show us the effect of the light that shone in the institution of the Lord's supper. It was progressive; it must have been so. It says that "they all drank out of it", and then the Lord told them about it: "This is my blood, that of the new covenant, that shed for many". He brought that in. It could not have been but increasing glory, and they are moved. That is really the order, dear brethren, of the reaction, as I may call it, in a positive sense, reaction in assembly to the light of the glory that shines, one glory after another. So they went to the mount of Olives. The sons of the prophets said to Elisha that the place was too narrow. That was right, and it was right to go to the Jordan. The place was too narrow in Jerusalem. When you come to the spiritual side, when the brethren are aglow and the glory is shining,

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we need to move out spiritually. Jerusalem is the place for the Lord's supper which is a public testimony, but the mount of Olives is another matter, and as we are drawn together in mutual affection and are touched by the glory shining in the Lord's supper, we want more room, and we ought to give plenty of room to Christ and to His affections. Do not dismiss Him in His relation with the assembly. The assembly is His glory; it is His fulness. I do not say that we get that as we move out to the mount of Olives, but we are on the platform of it. It is all spiritual. It is reaction, as I have said before, and the Lord looks for continual enlargement as in assembly.

Well now to close, in the Acts the Spirit is concerned about the public position, and He records the ascension of Christ, not from Bethany, but from the mount of Olives. The link is with what I have been saying. I suppose that Luke touches Mark, for in Matthew and Mark it is a question of going out of Jerusalem, that is, of spiritual deliverance from Jerusalem. Jerusalem is reprobate in that sense, so that Matthew and Mark would take us out of it, whereas Luke would bring us into it again. What I mean to convey is this, that in the testimony Luke would show we do not need a back door, that is, taking up children and teaching them by themselves. The idea in the gospel is the front door; it is a question of humanity. The testimony is to humanity, not to the children first, but the men and women, the responsible element, and Luke would show that what is coming in by the presence of the Holy Spirit here in a public way is greater than the greatest religious centre in the world. That is the idea, but in order to make that clear, you remember that Luke, in the end of his gospel, says that the Lord led out the disciples as far as Bethany, and "They, having done him homage, returned to Jerusalem with great joy,

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and were continually in the temple praising and blessing God". But that does not give us moral elevation. In approaching the sphere from the standpoint that He now has in mind, which is the assembly. He brings in the upper room, and that is what many of us need as reaction to the heavenly testimony. If we understand Paul's ministry that comes to us, we see that it is greater than any cathedral or any religious system in the world, and the point now is not to be afraid of it. Luke would show that the Holy Spirit having come down from heaven, what Christ left behind Him here is greater than the temple, greater than Jerusalem. If I go to Jerusalem it is not to abide there, but to be a testimony to it, and I cannot be that unless I am greater than Jerusalem. That is what a christian is. The reaction to the heavenly light is that, and the two men in white that Luke speaks of tell the story, "Why do ye stand looking into heaven? This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven, shall thus come in the manner in which ye have beheld him going into heaven". It is not a period of sight any more; it is a period of faith; the dispensation of God is in faith. "This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven, shall thus come in the manner in which ye have beheld him going into heaven". That is the position. In the interim there is this principle of manner. What is christianity? It is according to that manner, the light of ascension and the heavenly position, as it were, shining upon us.

And so they go back to the city, but they go to the upper room. The spiritual reaction to the light presented leads them there. And who are there in the upper room? The representatives of Christ in the eleven, their very names are given. They are abiding there. What an influence! What authority vested in each one! Then there was Mary, "These gave themselves all with one accord to continual prayer,

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with several women", we are told, "and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren". What a sphere that was! I only refer to it as showing how superiority to the greatest religious system is built up in our souls as we react to the heavenly light, and that is the need today. In Ephesians 1, in the first place, God has called us in this sense. It is the heavenly position that makes us superior, and it is as superior morally in the upper room that we can be a testimony to what is down here. The very religious system is not to be ignored, but we have to go into the very midst of it and be superior to it. May the Lord use these thoughts to us at this time.

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DIVINE TRIAL AND EXPOSURE

1 Samuel 13:13, 14; 1 Samuel 14:47, 48; 1 Samuel 15:1 - 23

J.T. The thought has been before one all day that, as anointed of God and set up in light and privilege, we are all under trial. We are greatly favoured, as Saul was, peculiarly favoured, with the mind of God set before him as to one who would supersede him, according to the verses read in chapter 13. And then, according to the verses read at the end of chapter 14, he was generally successful, that is, as the natural eye would see things. He "took the kingdom over Israel, and fought against all his enemies round about, against Moab, and against the children of Ammon, and against Edom, and against the kings of Zobah, and against the Philistines; and whithersoever he turned himself, he discomfited them. And he did valiantly, and smote the Amalekites, and delivered Israel out of the hands of their spoilers". Then we are told of his sons and daughters, and his ministers, we might say. The chapter is the history of a ministry that is finished. But chapter 15 is particularly in mind as the final test; this final commission becomes the supreme test. It seems to me as if at the present time it is wholesome to face such scriptures, for we are all on trial in this sense; it is he that continues to the end that shall be saved. Constantly the mind of God is being brought to us, as it was to Saul, and at times it seems as if we are moving in it, and yet the final test may bring out serious conditions, for the tests go on to the last moment of our position down here. Chapter 15 begins with, "Samuel said to Saul, Jehovah sent me to anoint thee". Samuel is having to do from the very outset with this remarkable man; he stresses that it is so, that Jehovah sent him to anoint Saul, and he is

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going through with the matter. So that our beginnings are in mind and how we are to finish. This last service seemed to be the best of all, and yet it was the worst of all, so that we have to be on the alert to be sure that we are doing the will of God. Chapter 16 is the positive terminus to this subject, that is, the appearance of David. Chapter 15 is what is in mind as the final test.

Ques. Paul said he had fought the good fight and kept the faith. Would he be an example of one who did continue, as over against Saul?

J.T. Quite so. Samuel himself is a testimony to this same thing, but he stresses here that he had to do with the beginning of this movement involving Saul, and now he is having to do with it at the end.

Ques. Do you suggest that we are tested as to where we are inwardly in our secret history with God?

J.T. That is the idea. Samuel is, as it were, overseeing the matter, it is he who is speaking to Saul in all these cases. Now he is reminding him that he had to do with him at the beginning and was sent of Jehovah to anoint him, and he says, What is going to happen? He is giving him a work, and is he doing the will of God in it, or is he assured of the will of God and not doing it?

Ques. Is the failure in obedience through not hearkening sufficiently attentively to the word of the Lord?

J.T. Yes, and not waiting for issues. The servant and the saint too is to be on that principle of dependent waiting. Whatever little I may do, what is the result of it? Am I confirmed that I am doing the will of God? So that the first scripture read is a pronouncement on Saul as having failed in not waiting. In verse 8 it says, "He waited seven days, according to the set time that Samuel had appointed; but Samuel did not come to Gilgal; and the people were scattered from him" (that is, from Saul). "And

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Saul said, Bring hither to me the burnt-offering and the peace-offerings. And he offered up the burnt-offering. And it came to pass, as soon as he had ended offering up the burnt-offering, behold, Samuel came". He did not wait long enough, and hence we have this pronouncement. He explains and excuses himself to Samuel. He says, "The Philistines will come down now upon me to Gilgal, and I have not made supplication to Jehovah; and I forced myself, and offered up the burnt-offering. And Samuel said to Saul, Thou hast done foolishly, thou hast not kept the commandment of Jehovah thy God which he commanded thee". That is, each move in our position in the testimony is to be tested out. Does it bear the test? It may not, and yet we go on. The light of God is brought in, and we go on again and again, and finally it looks as though the general service of Saul is successful. Had we nothing beyond chapter 14 it might have been thought that the Spirit of God thought it successful. But chapter 15 brings out the whole matter. The will of God was not in his heart, the word of God was not in his heart.

Rem. It is a great contrast to the Lord in Isaiah 8. At a crisis in the testimony He says, "I will wait for Jehovah, who hideth his face from the house of Jacob; and I will look for him".

J.T. I was thinking of that. Jacob says, "I wait for thy salvation, O Jehovah". Patience is set before us in the man of faith. It calls for examination at every stage of our service and history.

L.E.S. Does Samuel himself exemplify the true spirit of waiting in chapter 16 when he says, "We will not sit down till he come hither"?

J.T. Well, he had come to that. It is an excellent example of what we are seeking to show. He was quickly recovered. It is an example of how readily a truly obedient man becomes restored if in any way he is deflected; but where the word is not readily

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received, digested and acted on, God will not let us off. We may seem to be doing well, but God will bring in a test, and we are exposed.

Ques. Was the first test not only in regard to the commandment, but in regard to patience as far as the word was concerned? He waited the set time. Was the extra time on Samuel's part to test the thought of patience?

J.T. That is the idea. It was in mind that this man should be always on trial, he represents us all in the testimony, in responsibility, we are always on trial. God loves to see His own work show itself in the sense of dependence and patience, but otherwise the test will expose us. We may as well make up our minds to this.

Rem. We can never exactly be sure of ourselves.

J.T. No, you cannot. Paul said he had a good conscience, but he was not thereby justified, "He that examines me is the Lord", he says.

Ques. So that is it that if there is exposure, what comes to light is that there has been in some way or other the retention of the man that God has rejected?

J.T. That is what I thought; that comes out here. Samuel is faithful with Saul in chapter 13, as we have observed, reminding him that God had rejected him, but still he is allowed to continue, and chapter 14 brings out the kind of man that was to replace him, only not fully so. That is, Jonathan is very like David and acted wonderfully in chapter 14, so that Saul has under his very eyes what God has in His mind in His service, a man who works with God. Jonathan represents the spirit of Christ as working with God. But chapter 14 only brings out the obdurate condition of Saul, because he would have slain Jonathan on merely legal grounds, on no righteous grounds whatever. That is, it is positive unrighteousness. "Thou shalt certainly die, Jonathan", he said, for a merely legal cause, whereas in truth

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Jonathan was representing and working with God, bringing out the wealth of the land. The land was flowing with milk and honey, and Jonathan saw that it was flowing with honey and he partook of the honey, he partook of the land of Canaan in a truly spiritual way, and he must die for that, because of a legal enactment of his father, an unrighteous enactment. So that in these chapters we have the man under trial, tested at every moment, as it were. We are tested every moment in these meetings, weekly meetings and special meetings, tested every moment with the light of God, and what are we doing, what is the effect of it?

Ques. Had you in mind that the 14th verse of the 13th chapter constituted an appeal to Saul, that is, the presentation of the man after God's own heart?

J.T. That was what I thought, a man after God's own heart. He existed. We do not get his name, there is no indication as to who he is, "Jehovah has sought him a man after his own heart, and Jehovah has appointed him ruler over his people; for thou hast not kept what Jehovah commanded thee". Yet Saul is going on, allowed to go on, not deposed. Then Jonathan comes in and tests him again, working with God, and he does not tell his father. Why am I left out of things, why am I not taken into the counsel of the spiritual? Well, there is something wrong with me. He did not tell his father. Why did he not tell his father? Jonathan was acting spiritually, I mean to say that the position today is most critical, because God is greatly favouring us. Week after week brings its quota of light and blessing amongst us, and we are all on trial in that way. Are we looking in and saying, What is the situation with me? Why am I not in the counsels of the brethren, for instance? Why am I not in the confidence of the brethren? The spiritual are with

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God. However few, they are with God. Jonathan was with God, he was working with God, but what he undertook to do he kept silent as to his father. His father is out of it; that is to say, unless I am walking in the light as God is in the light, I am simply out of the thing, though professedly in it.

Ques. Does the apostle refer to that when he says, "We labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him"?

J.T. Just so. The apostle had kept his conscience right with God, yet he was not justifying himself, he says, 'It is the Lord who examines me'. The mind of heaven is usually reflected in the spiritual. Jonathan represents the spiritual here. There are such, however few, and they keep their counsels to themselves in regard of unspiritual people. So that I am out of it unless I am judging myself. It says, "He did not tell his father".

W.J.D. Are you applying this to the general development of the truth amongst us?

J.T. Yes, everywhere. There is that amongst us that is unnamed, very much that is a weight, unjudged sin. The spiritual are exercised, but, generally speaking, there is a great deal that is not dealt with. God is going on with us, and the spiritual are with God, and they have to keep their counsels. Many are out of these things. Why are they out of them? Why is Saul out of this matter? He is quite ignorant as to what Jonathan is doing, and yet Jonathan is with God. He has an armour-bearer who is ready to follow him. In verse 6 Jonathan says, "Come, and let us go over to the garrison of these uncircumcised" -- see the spiritual terms he uses, whereas Saul was using natural terms, calling the Israelites Hebrews -- "perhaps Jehovah will work for us; for there is no restraint to Jehovah to save by many or by few. And his armour-bearer said to him, Do all that is in thy heart". So that we have two anyway,

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as we have in the New Testament, "two of you". They are with God about matters and God is with them. They are working with God, so that the testimony goes on. Am I in it or out of it? Although nominally in fellowship, am I out of it? Why should I be out of it?

Rem. Jonathan and his armour-bearer represent a spiritual understanding amongst the saints who are with God in the development of the matter.

J.T. That is right. They are not a party, they are working with God. But he did not tell his father; his father was out of the thing, he was unspiritual, and he was not keeping the commandments of God.

W.C. Does the position under the pomegranate tree suggest a kind of orthodox position? There were a good many with him, six hundred. The real work of God is unknown, going on without their knowledge.

J.T. And he has got the ark too, apparently. The ark was with Israel in those days, and Saul would have had it and used it, but he gets no answer. In verse 18 of chapter 14 it says, "Saul said to Ahijah, Bring hither the ark of God. For the ark of God was at that time with the children of Israel. And it came to pass while Saul talked to the priest, that the noise which was in the camp of the Philistines went on and increased; and Saul said to the priest, Withdraw thy hand. And Saul and all the people that were with him were called together, and they came to the battle". But he is getting no answer. It is the noise of what God is doing that draws him, and then he comes into the thing, and he does harm. He is worse than useless, and he would have slain Jonathan, the man who is working with God. There is no effort to depose Saul, no effort by anybody to set him aside. He is doing it himself; he is being exposed.

Rem. Jonathan wished to have all the people in this; how much more if the people had partaken.

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So that the spiritual move is not a party one, as you say.

J.T. Not at all, I think what Jonathan represents here is a man who is increasing, as working with God, coming into the good of Canaan. The word as to the honey in verse 26 is, "The people had come into the wood, and behold, the honey flowed". It was Canaan. What God had promised was there, and he was availing himself of it. But Saul would put him to death for this, for laying hold of the heavenly privileges, the fruit of the land flowing with honey.

Ques. Do you get an example of this in Simon Magus in Acts 8?

J.T. Well, Saul represents persons who are more distinguished, really distinguished in the testimony, because he is distinguished in the testimony. The account we get is, "He took the kingdom over Israel, and fought against all his enemies round about" and so forth. Of course Simon Magus was never distinguished in the testimony, but this man is, and he is the leader ostensibly, and yet he is not with God, and he is out of everything that is spiritual.

A.J.G. Do we get principles set out in these persons more than just persons themselves? I wondered whether Paul discerned something of this sorrowful feature in Peter in the Acts when he withstood him to the face. Peter was happily recovered.

J.T. Quite, so far as it went.

Ques. Would the word in Corinthians as to reigning as kings without us be significant in this regard?

J.T. Yes, they were out of it, that is right. Paul was going on spiritually with God; the Corinthians were out of it.

Ques. Is it not so that if there is disobedience and lawlessness the service may be carried on, but it will be in the self-confidence of the flesh rather than being with God in the matter?

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J.T. Exactly. And then I may be against the spiritual. God is not stopping; if the leading man is not with Him, God is going on; He will go on with the spiritual, however few, and give the victory too, and presently the leading people run counter to the spiritual. Saul would have slain Jonathan here, and it was because he was appropriating the land of Canaan, the very best thing that God had promised; that was what he was appropriating, and he must die for this. It shows how serious it is if I am not with God, how I may come right up against those who are spiritual and quarrel with them and persecute them.

Ques. What is the significance of the eyes becoming bright in Jonathan's case?

J.T. That is the heavenly food. The Messiah was to eat butter and honey. Jonathan came into the good of the heavenly land. Others might have come into it, but they were restrained by the legality of the unspiritual. Many are hindered because of that, they have respect for the consciences of others, and they are hindered from the very best things that God has.

Rem. "All who are in Asia ... have turned away from me" furnishes the spirit of it.

J.T. Just so. There may have been some leading influence there. It was a personal attack on Paul, as in Jonathan's case here.

F.W.W. What is the difference between butter and honey, and milk and honey?

J.T. Butter is a higher thought. Isaiah 7 says that "a man shall nourish a young cow and two sheep" so that he might have the butter. Butter is a product of milk. There are so many things current that are weighing us down, that are unnamed, and these chapters are to show that we are on trial. If things are let go by the board, God is thinking of them; He is not forgetting anything. Things must come to trial. Saul is doing fairly well according to

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the end of chapter 14, but the last chapter exposes the root of the whole matter. Samuel said to Saul, "Jehovah sent me to anoint thee king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken to the voice of the words of Jehovah" (chapter 15: 1). It is a new matter altogether, the whole history is wound up in the end of the chapter. Is he going to get off free? He gets this important commission, against an ancient enemy of God's people; it was an excellent opportunity for him to show that, after all he has been through, he can now serve God and do what he is told to do, keep the word of God. So Samuel says, "Now go and smite Amalek, and destroy utterly all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling". It is a remarkable thing -- you might say, an infant would cover both, but the point is to show that he is going to be tested, "Ox and sheep, camel and ass". Then we are told how the battle went and how successful he was, and he goes up to Carmel and sets up a monument; that is, he is thinking of himself. It is a great matter, and he is successful, and he is setting up a monument, and we are told in verse 10, "The word of Jehovah came to Samuel saying, It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king; for he is turned away from following me, and hath not fulfilled my words". He had already intimated that to him, but this chapter shows that He is giving him full opportunity to prove himself.

Ques. What is the import of the second verse, remembering what Amalek did to Israel?

J.T. "Thus saith Jehovah of hosts, I have considered what Amalek did to Israel, how he set himself against him in the way, when he came up from Egypt". I think that Jehovah is putting the matter into Saul's hands, that is, spiritually it is an extended matter, it is a matter that attaches to the whole history of God's people. He is making much of

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him, to give him such a charge as this. It involves great spirituality and ought to appeal to any true Israelite as to the history of God's people. So he is setting him up again; he is on trial, but this new opportunity brings out that there is no change, that the root of the matter was never judged. Every vicissitude brought out that, though Saul had done pretty well, though he "took the kingdom over Israel, and fought against all his enemies round about ...", the root of the matter was there; it had never been judged.

C.T.L. Does Paul in 2 Corinthians 5 set out this point in dealing with the flesh rightly when he says, "We henceforth know no one according to flesh"?

J.T. Just so. That is where he judged rightly. He says, "Having judged this: that one died for all, then all have died". Saul never came to that, with all these opportunities he had, forty years in God's service. He never came to that at all.

Ques. Is the root of the matter in personal, private exercises?

J.T. It ought to be; a daily check-up on our history would bring it to light. We allow things to go on and never attend to them. Short accounts are the idea in relation to God.

A.J.G. Do you think the leaders at Corinth were tested as to this very matter, and over against that the apostle says, "For we do not, as the many, make a trade of the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as of God, before God, we speak in Christ"?

J.T. Quite so. Then again, "Let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven ... but with unleavened bread of sincerity and truth". The feast is a continual thing spiritually. Saul had forty years in this great position, leading God's people ostensibly. With all these opportunities, with Samuel there all the time always ready to speak to him, the root of the matter is never dealt with.

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L.E.S. The Spirit who dwells in us is spoken of as "the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead". Would that involve that His testimony to us would constantly bring before us God's selection of Christ as the Man whom He approves, and His rejection of every other?

J.T. Very good, that goes on to the change of our bodies. How well pleased the Spirit of God is with us, and really Samuel represents that side; he is representative of God, there all the time, and Saul had the advantage of the presence of Samuel and yet never judged the root of the matter.

Ques. Would the expression in the first verse, "The voice of the words of Jehovah", indicate going to the root of matters?

J.T. Yes, it is the words, not a general thought, it is detail, checking up in our histories, the constant appeals of God to us by the Spirit.

Ques. So that the voice would suggest something living?

J.T. Quite so, it is "the voice of the words of Jehovah". How many there were, how constantly God speaks to us.

Rem. I am thinking that Saul was a man for words, was he not? But the voice of the words would go beneath the legal exterior.

J.T. Quite so -- what the words carried, the voice of God.

Ques. Would this reference back to Exodus 17 constitute an appeal as to the sufferings of Christ, as the only way in which we can receive the Spirit in power to overcome Amalek? Is there a danger of our losing sight of that and going on without feeling what it cost Christ to deal with the flesh in order that we might have the Spirit continually, the power of it?

J.T. If Saul were a spiritual man he would understand this commission. In chapter 10: 1 it says, "Samuel ... kissed him" and told him of different

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things that he would come in contact with as he moved according to the instructions, amongst them Rachel's sepulchre, the hill of God, and prophets prophesying, so that these are suggestions that would draw out spiritual instincts, but Saul did not have them. It is remarkable that for forty years God allowed this man a prominent or distinctive place in the testimony, and he has never been right all the time. All these spiritual suggestions as to Rachel's sepulchre, the hill of God, and the prophets of God, all these ought to have set him up spiritually at the outset, but he was wrong from the beginning. He never judged himself.

Rem. No one would have detected that but God. Even Samuel does not seem to have seen it.

J.T. The end of chapter 14 would rather indicate that, after all, he has done fairly well. Many a time one has heard that about brothers one knew, who were not right. Only recently such a person went astray and got lawless. There it is, however; it is never named. There are many such cases amongst us.

C.T.L. It says in chapter 14 that Saul built an altar to Jehovah. This was the first altar he built to Jehovah. Would the setting up of the monument in chapter 15 be a solemn departure from that position?

J.T. He was making a religious show when he built the altar in chapter 14. He is more or less exposed, for the battle is being won by someone else, he is trying to get into it and have the glory of it, he is sending for the ark, setting up an altar, sending for the priest, but he is exposed. Jonathan, the spiritual man, is there, and he is carrying on, the testimony of God is going on, only two knowing it. But Saul is being exposed. It is the spiritual activity that exposes such a man as this, but the difficulty that I observe in the meetings is the inability to name, the indisposition to name, evils, and the tendency to leave them not dealt with.

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Ques. I suppose it cannot be named until it becomes open?

J.T. Well, the spiritual can name it. I think Jonathan was naming the real condition in his father when he did not tell him what he was going on with. He had a secret understanding, in fact, he says so; when the matter comes to light he says that his father had troubled the land (verse 29). That is naming the thing. The people are to come to that.

Ques. Is it not all the more serious that even after that, it says Saul "did valiantly, and smote the Amalekites, and delivered Israel out of the hands of their spoilers", that ostensibly things went on even after that?

J.T. That is the test, I think. Such a man is allowed to go on and do things, do valiantly, too. People say, After all, he has been a good brother, and the matter is not named. He is a real troubler, that is the truth.

Ques. How would you name it?

J.T. Well, there is the principle of investigation. Our so-called care meetings ought to be that; it is a question of a spiritual investigation. They are not final. The assembly alone can administer judgment, but the investigations ought to bring to light the conditions in the gathering, and there ought to be a naming of any troubler. He has troubled the land.

Rem. They would be named in the care meeting before they are named in the assembly.

Ques. Do you think the apostle in 2 Timothy is on this line? He names the matter of Demas, and then he names the matter of Alexander the coppersmith. He goes on to say, "Against whom be thou also on thy guard, for he has greatly withstood our words".

J.T. A very good example. He names things to Timothy as if he had confidence in him.

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Ques. Is it a question of the testimony being at stake, that things must be named when that is the case, not personal matters, but the testimony at stake?

J.T. We ought to see that here. Although this man is a leader, he is a troubler really. Although there seems to be a good report, he has done fairly well. God is showing in chapter 15 that he is not to get off. That is a solemn matter. The government of God goes on, and no one will escape, God will see to that; something will happen to show the root of the matter.

Ques. There would be certain indications, do you think, to the spiritual of the way things were going?

J.T. That is what comes out here. What you notice is that Samuel is really friendly to Saul, he is no enemy at all. He is friendly from the beginning to the end. He mourned for him after he was finally rejected. Nevertheless he is a spiritual man and his word is faithful. In chapter 15 Saul tells his story. God had told Samuel in verses 10 and 11 that Saul had not fulfilled His words. "Samuel was much grieved; and he cried to Jehovah all night". He was a true friend, a spiritually true friend, and why should not a spiritual man be truly a friend to any offender, because the more spiritual I am the more I am truly a friend to any offender. Samuel is faithful, and that is what is so much needed, a faithful naming of the thing that exists. So Saul said to him, in verse 13, "Blessed art thou of Jehovah: I have fulfilled the word of Jehovah. And Samuel said, What means then this bleating of sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of oxen which I hear? And Saul said, They have brought them from the Amalekites, because the people spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice to Jehovah thy God". How plausible all this is, and most (alas, we have to say, most) will accept such a plausible story as this. We

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see what Saul has done: he has gained a great victory, in fact, we are told in chapter 14 that he had done this, for I suppose the allusion is to this battle. You will observe here in chapter 15: 17 - 19, that Samuel does not say a word about the people. He tells the truth, that Saul is responsible for all the others. He has neglected to hear the word of God and to act upon it, so that no son of trouble, like Saul, need make much of what the generality of the saints think. It is a question of the judgment of the spiritual, of the mind of God. So Samuel says, it is very plain, "Why then didst thou not hearken to the voice of Jehovah? ... Because thou hast rejected the word of Jehovah, he hath also rejected thee from being king". So the matter is settled.

C.H. It is made very clear in that verse, "Rebellion is as the sin of divination, and self-will is as iniquity and idolatry". Self-will, generally speaking, is one of our greatest sorrows.

J.T. Yes. It is inability to face things that needed to be judged.

Rem. Is it right to suggest that in the questions that Samuel asked Saul -- it was all done by questions -- he was giving him an opportunity, but it only brought out the fact that he was excusing himself all the time? Had he judged himself at that late hour God would have come in for him.

J.T. This is really what meets all these matters that are allowed of God amongst us. What has happened? There is nothing very concrete you can speak of, but verses 22 and 23 are the spiritual exposure of the whole matter, that will is at work, want of self judgment, instead of God's will, my will, covered over with what is my will all the time. That is the point, I suppose it is put poetically to pierce our consciences, to get in.

C.T.L. Is the final test as to the thoroughness of doing things?

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J.T. Yes. Take Agag here, he is the king. What does he represent? He represents Amalek. In his own person he represents the whole thought, the whole thing that God would have destroyed, and Saul is so far away from God that he justifies saving this man. So Samuel hews him to pieces. It says of him in verse 32, "And Samuel said, Bring ye near to me Agag the king of Amalek". According to this version he came gaily; I suppose it would mean he was a gentleman, he was fully refined after the flesh so as to produce a good impression. I suppose that is the idea; he would produce a good impression on an unspiritual person. But he did not on Samuel. Samuel said, "As thy sword has made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless above women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before Jehovah in Gilgal".

Ques. What about Saul's confession in verse 24?

J.T. It is wrung out of him. We go to a brother like this, not judging himself really but doing the best he can to cover himself. But God will not let us off. It is faithfulness to God that comes out in this chapter. It is a sort of appendix to Saul's life, but it brings out the real state that was there all the time; God would have it so.

C.H. Would the Lord's parable as to the foundations in Luke 6 bear on this? One built on the sand and the other on the rock. Would Saul represent the building on the sand and David the building on the rock?

J.T. Quite so. David judged himself thoroughly, he is over against Saul in that sense. David was always recoverable and always listened to his prophets, to Nathan and to Gad.

Rem. Saul seems to have listened to the people. That is a poor thing for a king, "I feared the people, and hearkened to their voice". It is not the language of a king.

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J.T. Quite so. Besides that he blames the people for his own sin.

A.J.G. The Spirit of God makes that clear in verse 9, "And Saul and the people spared Agag", both of them: Saul was in it.

J.T. Quite so.

Ques. Does Samuel himself set forth the secret of power? He hews Agag in pieces and returns to Ramah where he has his house and his altar. He returns to Ramah after anointing David. He always keeps up his links with Ramah.

J.T. He maintains his spiritual elevation before God.

Ques. Why did Saul go to Gilgal?

J.T. A man like him will go the full limit of religious appearances.

C.H. Does Samuel show the balance of right feelings? Whilst he could hew Agag in pieces -- there was no excess in that, it was right -- he mourned over Saul, not taking advantage of him in any way.

J.T. I think he shows how thoroughly he regarded Saul; he would have saved him; a spiritual man will always take that attitude in seeking to recover a brother.

Ques. Is it not wrong to mourn over Saul in this sense?

J.T. He kept it on too long. "How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel?". In raising this question I suppose it is right that we should be thoroughly with God in our feelings. It says, "It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king". Whilst we do not want to give any place to the flesh at all, we should be devoid of what is spiritual if we lacked feeling in the matter. These words ought to be kept in mind, how the root of the matter was reached in them; they are in poetic form. Samuel committed himself in them. They stand out as dealing with these cases, that you

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have not got very much concrete evidence of what you might call serious crime, but it is the underlying state extending over the whole period of one's service. Things were never really judged at bottom. These two verses are in poetic form to pierce through and get to that side, so that it is exposed. Saul is the responsible leader; there is no effort outwardly to depose him. God has expressed His mind, but Saul goes on and on until he falls on mount Gilboa.

Ques. While what you say can be taken up by us all, have you leaders particularly in mind?

J.T. No, not specifically. It is the general thought of a state continuing and the service seemingly to a certain extent quite commendable, the state owned in the fellowship, and yet God will not let it pass, it must be exposed.

Ques. Is it what we say that exposes us?

J.T. Agag represents the flesh in its worst form against the people of God, it came to light when the Spirit was recognised. It is Satan in the flesh, that is what it is. Think of Satan in it! He is self-cultivated, self-cultured, he will produce a good impression on the natural mind. This man Agag came gaily, as much as to say, I am quite acceptable. He would have produced that impression if he could on Samuel.

Ques. Do you think we need to have a clear vision in these matters of what is delightful to Jehovah? Samuel brings that in here, "Has Jehovah delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in hearkening to the voice of Jehovah?"

J.T. That is very good. These two verses are to be noted, I think they are put down so as to stand in our mind. Poetic form is to impress our minds, we can always recall poetic form.

F.W.W. Is the contrast seen in Isaiah 42? "Behold my servant whom I uphold, mine elect in whom my soul delighteth".

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J.T. Quite so. Matthew brings that in, does he not?

Ques. Why does Saul always refer to "thy God" and not 'my God'?

J.T. He was pretending to honour Samuel, I suppose. I think he represents in all this the cleverness of such a man covering over the real thing that God is exposing, and excusing it, making much of Samuel, of course, making much of the spiritual man, but never really judging the root. He fails to do that, skilfully hiding that if he can.

Rem. So that it says, "Not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth".

J.T. Quite so. This chapter 15 is, I believe, what we all have to face. We are on trial. However we may seem to be getting on well. God will not let us off unless there is this habitual judging of ourselves, keeping short accounts with God. The voice of the words of Jehovah is constantly coming before us, meeting after meeting, and yet we turn a deaf ear to it.

Rem. Jehovah having war with Amalek from generation to generation gives Him the opportunity to bring us into the matter.

J.T. Quite so.

Ques. I suppose we shall be disqualified from coming into the spiritual development under David if this is not really faced?

J.T. I think so. Even Samuel himself came under the power of the thing to some extent, thinking of Eliab instead of David.

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HEARD AND ANSWERED PRAYERS

1 John 5:14, 15; Daniel 9:20 - 24; 2 Kings 6:17; Isaiah 38:2 - 5

My subject this evening is heard and answered prayers. I have selected three out of many Scriptures bearing on this, believing that they are characteristic of all and serve to bring out the subject. Never was there a time when prayer was more necessary, and of course answered prayers; answered prayers are the ones that are effective. The verses in John's epistle are intended to instruct us as to prayer, especially if we are urgent as to answers. All that is desired in our prayers is not granted, although they may be heard and even pleasing to God, for in everything we are to make our requests known to God by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving (Philippians 4:6). God answers from His own point of view, although He loves to intimate to us that He answers because we pray.

The Lord, according to Matthew 18:19, says, "If two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven". He gives us to understand it is done for us, and John's remarks which I have read support this; he would encourage us as to consciousness of God. A person must believe that He is, but that in itself is not consciousness, consciousness of God. "By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that that which is seen should not take its origin from things which appear", Hebrews 11:3. That is all objective, but God would have us to be conscious of Himself. Indeed John goes so far as to say, "He that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him", 1 John 4:16. We cannot but see that consciousness is there, that there is such a thing as being 'God-conscious',

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if I may use that expression. Paul says that men "Should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us", Acts 17:27. John would make it nearer than that, bringing Him into our hearts that He might dwell there. Dwelling in love is not simply that I have love, but that love is active and is linking on with others. Thus God is pleased with us, and dwells in us, and we in Him.

Jacob made up his mind, after dreaming of the ladder extended down from heaven to him, that he was in the house of God: "This is none other but the house of God", Genesis 28:17. But he called it a dreadful place. You can understand there was not much in his consciousness of pleasure, whereas, in his more calculated moments very soon after, he named the place the house of God and determined it should be that, and it was that. And the next time he visited Bethel there was nothing of the dreadfulness about it. God came down to where Jacob was and stood beside him. God, as it were, was dwelling there; it was not an abstract thought, but God was there in Bethel, and with Jacob in it. We are the house of God, but it is as dwelling in love we are the house of God in the true sense. Still Jacob enjoyed the place and the pillar was erected and he poured a drink offering on it, meaning that God was pleased with him, and desired to be near him and talk with him, and to hear Jacob talk to Him, too (Genesis 35:14).

John's epistle would impress us with all this. He says: "If our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things" (chapter 3: 20), but then he continues: "If our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight". God would quiet any troubled heart, for Satan would trouble our hearts

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that they might be diverted from God, but God would show us that He is greater than our hearts. We must keep this in mind and never lose heart whatever happens, and then, if my heart does not condemn me, anything I ask I receive from Him, because I keep His commandments. That is the general position as to prayer, the sense that God hears us and that, if He hears us, we have the petitions we desire of Him. It is important to keep in mind an untroubled heart, an uncondemning heart; that is, that everything that ruffles is dealt with. So that there is restfulness in the presence of God, and consciousness that He hears us. Evidently it is not with sight, but, as sensitive, we act. The Holy Spirit enables us to grasp that, not only has He heard, but we are conscious that He hears. There is great nearness in that; then we are to wait for the answers, for in truth a great part of the believer's life should be made up of waiting for the answers.

I have brought in Daniel because I regard him as a model for us in this matter. I could speak much of the Lord Himself, but I selected persons like ourselves, Daniel, Elisha, and Hezekiah. I might speak of Solomon, and of course many others. Indeed it is a most stimulating study in the Scriptures to follow up the heard and answered prayers. One might say the whole testimony is made to fit in with heard and answered prayers. The Lord, on the cross, was heard from the horns of the unicorns (Psalm 22:21), "He asked life of thee, and thou gavest it him, even length of days for ever and ever", Psalm 21:4. There are other prayers in the Old Testament, such as Solomon's, that come down the whole history of Israel. God says, "I have heard thy prayer", and He fills the temple on account of it, showing what He thinks of this kind of prayer.

Now Daniel is peculiarly one with whom God is pleased. The times of prayer are occasions for God;

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the meetings for prayer that we have are occasions for God. He honours every one of them. He speaks of "my house of prayer"; that alludes to the temple, but to the assembly too. Although we come burdened on Monday evenings, not only with the burden of the testimony, but maybe with the cares of this life. God would intimate to us that He would make us glad in His house of prayer. Now Daniel represents a kind of praying man that stirs heaven; he prayed at length, for he represents spiritual brethren who are concerned about the testimony of God, and the history of it, and those who are responsible for it. They take account of the history of professing christendom and judge it before God. That is what Daniel was doing here. It begins in verse 3 of our chapter, "I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: and I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments". How pleased God was with that! Remember, it is Daniel who represents the principle of prayer more strikingly than most. When he heard the decree that exposed him to the judgment of the king to be cast into the lions' den, "he kneeled upon his knees". You may say, What is the use of saying he kneeled on his knees? God is stressing that it was real kneeling, real exercise. He prayed three times a day with his window opened towards Jerusalem. He is a known man to heaven on this line, a fearless man, a martyr in his prayers, for martyrdom is a suitable accompaniment to prayer.

Now he is praying and Gabriel comes swiftly to him and tells him he is greatly beloved. He is ministering to heaven in his prayer, he is delightful to heaven, and all such praying saints are likewise pleasing to heaven. So our prayers and meetings for

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prayer, dear brethren, are part of the divine service, and occasions of pleasure to God, and He makes it known to us, for we become conscious of His nearness in prayer. God looks for it, for our consciousness, and thus He is pleased with us. The point that Gabriel stressed is that Daniel is beloved. He can pray so that God is pleased with him. God is looking for His part in all our service, and in no case should God's part be omitted, in our reading of the Scriptures, in our meetings for prayer, as well as on all other such occasions. Daniel desired to know the mind of God as to his people and city, he was concerned as to the completion of things; and surely, dear brethren, finality is to be in our mind in our prayers. Our sojourn here is near its end. Daniel had in mind the finality of all that God had introduced in relation to Israel. Jerusalem was in ruins. What was to be the culmination of all this? Daniel knew God, and with God there is to be a finish, a finish to everything. What is to be the finish of our times? John says we know that antichrist comes. We do not need further revelation about that; it is a settled matter. What is to be understood is that he is kept back; the apostle tells us there is that which now hinders and also He who hinders until He be taken away (2 Thessalonians 2:7). That is a matter of exercise. And another thing, we are to count the number of the beast. "He that has understanding let him count the number of the beast", Revelation 13:18. The Scriptures give us that number, and it is important we should know how to count it.

Daniel has in mind the finality of things and is asking about it, and Gabriel is sent to him and he says in verse 24, "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision

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and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy". That is finality, for the time is to come. The Lord told His disciples, "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power", Acts 1:7. But still there is spiritual finality. What is in mind in our meetings for prayer? Things are not to go on indefinitely as they are now. There is finality, and the spiritual will gather up in the presence of God what the finality is to be. There are the public things we have alluded to, but there is spiritual finality, and if I get a grasp of that in my soul, I keep on praying, for I want to be in that finality. In that way Daniel is a trustworthy man. God can trust him. But even with Daniel it is, "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days" (chapter 12: 12). There are forty-five days added here, and we are to watch lest we miss the forty-five days, for the blessing is attached to the waiting and coming to that number of days.

Daniel was a man greatly beloved according to the thoughts of heaven, and as such he was spoken to by Gabriel, the priestly angel. Praying is a priestly matter, and pleases God peculiarly, "Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness, and let thy saints shout for joy", Psalm 132:9. God is pleased with this, for He looks for spiritual happiness as we turn our faces towards Him.

Now I want to come to Elisha, another most practical servant of God, a man who can take a second place in the service of God, like John in the New Testament. In referring to this passage I desire to speak to young men. We need our eyes open at the present time. Young men are apt to be discouraged, and young people naturally aspire to things that perhaps are not in faith at all. We have to watch ourselves as to our desires, for young people are apt to have mixed motives. We are to watch, to

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discern that, "I myself with the mind serve God's law", Romans 7:25. We need to discern inwardly by habitually checking up our motives. Let the word of God have full play on the conscience. As the offerings of old were slain the inwards were all divided and presented to God and burned on the altar. The word of God is living and operative, it divides between soul and spirit, joints and marrow, and discerns the thoughts and intents of the heart (Hebrews 4:12). Therefore I enter into my closet and shut the door, and I pray to my Father in secret, and my Father who sees in secret shall reward me openly. God is looking into my heart. What is my motive? What am I asking these things for?

The young man says to Elisha, "Alas, my master! how shall we do?". He was occupied with the number of the Syrian army. It should be, What will God do? God is looking at the motives as young people pray. They need our sympathy today, young men of a certain age, we need to be feeling for them, for it may be the hour of their defeat or their triumph. Let it be the latter, but it will only be through prayer. So as searching my heart, what are my motives? The Father sees the secrets: "All things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do", Hebrews 4:13. The young men need to have their eyes opened to these things and to look around. The first time the Lord touched the eyes of the blind man in Mark 8 that man saw men as trees walking. Things were cloudy at first; his prayer would be uncertain at that time. We need to see things clearly. The Lord gave him a second touch and he saw all things clearly, not only persons but things. The whole position was clear. Thus I pray.

Elisha prayed, and God opened this young man's eyes. God has great sympathy with the young men, as we read in Zechariah 2:4, "Run, speak to this

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young man, saying. Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein". Then we are told, "The mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha", 2 Kings 6:17. God is watching, and there is divine protection all round him. That is Elisha's prayer. He makes a great deal of the sons of the prophets. It is a ministry that takes account of the young men at the present time. This young man is in his mind; he is his servant and he asks Jehovah about him, and God opened his eyes. It is not that the army is sent, but God opened his eyes to see it, because the testimony is the most interesting thing in the universe to God. Elisha represents that. Let this young man see it, he says, and God answers his prayer. We may indeed be encouraged to pray for the younger men and younger women. Nature may sway them, hence the need for their eyes to be opened.

Hezekiah is the next example. In Isaiah 38 we read: "Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the Lord". He was sick unto death, and it was by divine appointment. It is a solemn matter that one should be made sick prophetically. The word is, "In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live". It is a judicial matter, and a prophetic matter. This brings up the whole question of our bodies. The Lord is for the body and the body for the Lord; our bodies are greatly valued. "Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" 1 Corinthians 6:19. So if sickness occur, and sickness unto death, how solemn! It was divinely prophesied that Hezekiah should die and not live. That is a matter of appeal to us all. There are sects that make the body a hobby, and make much of

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faith-healing, because they abuse the truth and darken it by words without knowledge. We should not let the truth slip away or become dormant. Hezekiah was an important man, and God told him he was to die and not live, and he "turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the Lord". He was a praying king and a greatly valued man.

In chapter 37 we read of his entering the house of God himself and laying the whole matter of the attack of the Assyrian before God. God listened, and said, "He shall not come into this city, nor shoot an arrow there, nor come before it with shields, nor cast a bank against it", Isaiah 37:33. That is a comfort. This is an answer to what I may call a political prayer. God would have us understand things and leave nothing out of our prayers that should be in them. This matter was very urgent. The attack was serious and might mean the ruin of the testimony. These political matters may enter into the testimony, for Satan is active, and it matters little what he uses to interfere with what God is doing at the present time. So Hezekiah's first prayer is in relation to that, and God covers His people. We know what things are coming to; the Scriptures are plain about that. We know what the nations are coming to; this is no time for national feelings, for they are all drifting in one direction, but in the midst of all this there is the apple of God's eye, as in the days of the Acts, when Saul breathed out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord. It was with the Lord that Saul had to do. He has all power in heaven and earth, and Saul was broken down and the assemblies had rest. If we are to be protected, the question is, Are we pleasing to God? Are we worth it? We are to think of God's side. Am I worth protecting under the eyes of God? It is a question of what is pleasing to God. God assures Hezekiah, saying, He will not come here; he may elsewhere, but God was answering

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prayer. Not only that, but Sennacherib is slain himself and his army destroyed, all because of prayer.

In Isaiah 38 it is Hezekiah himself, not the people of God, or the temple of Jehovah, or Jerusalem, but the praying man himself, and God says, "Thou shalt die, and not live". When we come to the banks of the Jordan, what are our resources? What I have professed to be, am I now? Hezekiah is a praying man; his face is turned to the wall and he prays to God. He can do nothing, but then God can still do something, and so he prays and says, "Remember now, O Lord, I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight". He was worth something; it was no mere profession. What value am I to God? God is constantly looking for values, something of worth. Hezekiah was of worth towards Jehovah, there is no question of it; Jehovah does not deny it, "Hezekiah wept sore. Then came the word of the Lord to Isaiah saying, Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the Lord, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years". It is in answer to prayer; it is what we must expect. Fifteen years is a considerable time in the testimony of God. Many of us would have prayed for certain of our dear brethren that are gone, if only we could have them fifteen years more. But the point is, Am I worth being allowed to remain here? This is a challenge to our hearts. Would any man in Israel be heard like this? Not at all. This was a man who prayed. What he had been, God had made him. Think of his father, think of the kings before him. His father refused to take a sign from Jehovah. In chapter 7: 12 he says, "I will not ask, neither will I tempt the Lord". He would not ask for a sign, he would not pray, nor even be benefited by that sign. But here is a man who prays and God answers his

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prayers: He is worth keeping on earth. Hence the fifteen years are added, for he is needed here.

I am urging that we look abroad on the field and think of the need of the testimony, the need of leadership, the need of ability to care for the people of God. Think of Hezekiah; is there anyone like him? Jehovah says, "I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years". So, dear brethren, we should be encouraged to go on, submitting to the will of God, of course. God sends Isaiah to tell Hezekiah he is to die, and not live, but God is God, and can we not ask God to modify? Yes, God will listen to us. Let us urge the necessity for it, for surely if I ask anything of God there should be some explanation of it. Am I worth being preserved? Let me give my reasons and God will listen. He is a God who will hear prayer, and we may leave it with Him. If it is wisdom, He will add fifteen years or more. God loves to see this exercise with us, as we look abroad on the field and pray, and feel the necessity for ministering to the brethren. God will restore, and add whatever it pleases Him to add for the sake of His people and for the sake of His testimony.

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LIFE THE SOURCE OF LIGHT

John 1:4, 5; Matthew 4:12 - 17; Isaiah 37:30 - 32; John 12:1 - 3, 9 - 11

J.T. What is in mind is to show from these scriptures how life, whether in Christ, or in any one of us, or in a company of saints in any locality, is the source of light. The verses in John 1 were read to show that life in Christ was light, but light in a circumscribed sense as referring only to men. The ordinary physical light of the sun, the moon and the stars, serves a wider area; for spiritual life as light has men only in view. So it is thought that the passage in Matthew 4 illustrates how light appears in a locality in this sense: it sprang up. The Lord, as we are told in the passage, left Nazareth and dwelt in Capernaum; it was not simply that He visited the place, but that He dwelt there; so that He represents that of which we are speaking, light in a locality, for it sprang up, we are told. Then the passage in Isaiah helps as to the development of life in christians; it is a vegetable figure, but used not only here but elsewhere to set out life, first the yield of the earth without cultivation, and then with cultivation. Finally, in John 12, life is seen in persons, but as a group characterised by Lazarus whom Christ raised from the dead. It is thought that the passage represents the point in question in the most intelligent and intelligible form as in persons who had had a comparatively long history with Christ, and came under His influence and culture.

B.W. Would you say a word as to that expression, "In him was life"?

J.T. The allusion is not to Christ as in absolute Deity, but to Him as become Man; but it refers to His ministry here. It is the past tense: "In him

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was life, and the life was the light of men". The earlier verses contemplate Him in Deity, but operating; so that these verses bring down the history of Christ, in that sense, to the incarnation. Hence what is substantial is seen as producing light, but light of a peculiar kind, such as had men only in mind; it was restricted to them.

H.E.F. Why do you say it is in the past tense?

J.T. Those verses, down to the end of verse 13, are introductory, prefatory remarks to bring down the history of Christ to His position here alone in testimony. The epistle of John carries this forward in connection with the new commandment: "which thing is true", not 'was', "in him and in you"; that is, John's epistle traces the thought into Christianity, Christ in heaven, and the Spirit here.

H.E.F. Do you mean that in the first it is in Christ personally, and then afterwards in Christ and the saints?

J.T. Quite: "Which thing is true in him and in you". Life is now in us through redemption and through the Spirit. That is the ground on which the epistle goes.

Eu.R. That verse ends. "Because the darkness is passing and the true light already shines". Does that support what you have in mind as to "Which thing is true in him and in you", being the same principle of life shining as light?

J.T. Yes. Ordinary light would dispel darkness; but here the light appeared in darkness, and the darkness apprehended it not. It is the true light, because it lightens, or sheds its light on, every man.

What is in mind in these remarks is not so much what is doctrinal, but to apply the thought of substance in the way of life as essential to light for testimony at the present time. In Genesis 1, light was introduced by the command of God; He commanded that out of darkness light should shine. It

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is not said whence the light came, what it was that caused it, or what substance it was that was behind it. It comes in by the command of God, as alluded to in 2 Corinthians 4"It is the God who spoke that out of darkness light should shine who has shone in our hearts for the shining forth of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" (verse 6), a most exalted thought of light. So the intention is to see that our testimony towards men is not simply in word, but in what we are, whether individually or collectively.

H.E.F. Is that confined to the apostles only, or continued in the saints?

J.T. I think it is the principle of testimony; it is preceded by our occupation with the glory of the Lord: "We all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit" (2 Corinthians 3:18); that stands related to the new covenant, but in the next chapter it is expanded in relation to the full position of the gospel: the light shines, and the glory of God is seen in the face of Jesus; the light has shone into our hearts for the shining forth of that, so that we become the medium of it. No doubt it has a special reference to ministers, for they, indeed, are what the apostle is speaking of: "Ourselves your bondmen for Jesus' sake" (verse 5). Still, the principle is there of the saints being the medium of the light, the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

W.B.H. Would the Thessalonians represent what you are saying?

J.T. I think they do. They are addressed as "the assembly of Thessalonians"; that is, it is a local thought. It alludes to their local position, to the fact that they grew up there; but they are "in God the Father", and the sound of the glad tidings

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went out from them, and correspondingly the shining. They took on collectively from Paul as model, and also from the assemblies in Judaea, showing that they were not unduly local; they were universal as well, and drew from all legitimate sources for the enhancement of what they were. That is a very important matter today, for we are apt to be unduly local; and yet we must be local. They were "the assembly of Thessalonians in God the Father", showing they were delightful to God the Father, and obviously because they corresponded with Christ in this sense of life and light.

Ques. You spoke of substance as being behind the light: does that substance consist in the knowledge of divine Persons as they are to be known in the economy of grace?

J.T. I should say that. This gospel shows us the features of life developed in Christ so that we might take them on. I think the idea of development is the thing, seen perfectly in Christ; and we take it on on the principle of appreciation and appropriation. I appreciate a thing, and then I appropriate it. So the great elements of life are developed in this gospel, and in resurrection, ascension into heaven, the Spirit coming -- all these elements take form subjectively, so that the thing is true in Him and in us; the life which shone in Christ becomes true in us, and thus it becomes light.

A.W.G.T. Does Ephesians 5 help in this enquiry as to "the fruit of the light", and "children of light"?

J.T. It does indeed, "Among whom ye appear as lights in the world", Philippians 2:15. We may see in this gospel how the "sons of light" took form in taking on what they appreciated in Christ. For instance, the woman in chapter 4 appreciated the Lord's remarks about herself, about the water springing up in her

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unto everlasting life, in the person; that is one thought, that the body of the believer is a vessel. She left her water-pot, and in that act proved that she was herself in the understanding of what the Lord said to her about her body being a vessel. So in other instances: Peter, at the end of chapter 6, speaks of the Lord as having words of eternal life: "Thou hast words of life eternal; and we have believed and known that thou art the holy one of God". They had been making progress in chapter 6, and it took the form of knowledge as well as believing. They saw He had the words of eternal life; they had believed and known that He was the holy one of God. That is, Peter came into that light, and took it on in that sense, he appropriated what he valued in the Lord. Others were going away from the Lord; it was a regular apostasy, turning back from Him; and the Lord said to the twelve, "Will ye also go away?". This is Peter's answer; so he is taking on the thought of life, and not only that, but the words of it, believing and knowing Christ was the holy one of God, laying the basis for the service of God. And so throughout: you get instances in chapters 9 and 12; first, the thought of "sons of light" alluding to a galaxy of persons, or stars, shining, but shining in perfect order, all in relation to one another; that is what is in mind. That sort of thing is to be in evidence, and where it is, there is light for men.

W.E.T. Is that what Paul has in mind in Philippians 2, where he says, "Ye appear as lights in the world" -- light as the result of substance appearing?

J.T. That is what I was thinking. The first chapter of John's gospel brings out a cluster of shining lights, but they are shining in relation to one another. I suppose the firmament discloses many illustrations of what we are saying; many stars in relation one to another, but in every case they are shining.

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C.E.W.B. I suppose the man in chapter 9 had a good deal of substance which resulted in light shining in the darkness?

J.T. That is one of the best illustrations you can get of what we are saying, for the truth was worked out in him. Another great feature of the idea of light is in chapter 12, where the Lord says that the Father's commandment is life eternal; so it bears upon us as obedient. Paul said that he was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, and what strikes one in relation to this man in chapter 9 is his unswerving obedience to the word of Christ, not only to His actual word, but as pursuing it in its moral bearing, showing the idea of life developing in him on moral lines, leading to his being cast out of the synagogue; he never shone more brilliantly than at that moment. The Lord heard of it, and found him, and said to him, to complete the thought, "Thou, dost thou believe on the Son of God?". He said, "And who is he, Lord, that I may believe on him? And Jesus said to him, Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he. And he said, I believe, Lord: and he did him homage". It is a luminary, developed on moral lines. Then chapters 10 and 11 develop what is seen in chapter 12, not only the affection for one another, or simply the thought of the Lord loving the three, Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus, but the wonderful order and intelligence that marked them in preparing for Him in their locality.

B.W. Is the ointment being poured out in chapter 12 an expression of the fact that living conditions are there?

J.T. The scene was suited to the service; it took on the character of the sanctuary. But Matthew 4 should not be passed over, how this thought is seen in Christ as leaving Nazareth, and going to Capernaum, and dwelling there; and light sprang up.

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Eu.R. What does the springing up convey to you?

J.T. The Lord was the source of it. It is a remarkable thing that it speaks of light springing up: light usually comes down. I think it is to stress what we are saying, the substantial thought of life; and, of course, it enters strongly into our local positions, raising the question of how we are moving about before our neighbours, how we are doing our business. The Lord dwelt in Capernaum, as any other would, though, of course, "holy, harmless, undefiled, separated from sinners" (Hebrews 7:26); but He took His place "in the likeness of men" -- not simply 'man' as a race, but "men", in their average appearance -- making no effort to be other. Anyone might have met Him in the town at that time, or have lived next door to Him; but this light was shining there for all who had eyes to see.

J.A.P. Is it significant that the preaching began there: "From that time began Jesus to preach"?

J.T. I had that in mind in having it read, because what we are speaking of now is essential to the outgoing of the testimony in our localities; that is what is in mind. It is in relation to that shining that the Lord began to preach. So in John 1"The light appears in darkness": it was there.

Ques. Have you in mind particularly in Matthew 4 the thought of the local setting, and that there must be spiritual substance if there is to be the setting forth of evangelical testimony?

J.T. That is what I was thinking in relation to the allusion to Philippians 2:7. It says, "Taking his place in the likeness of men". It is worth looking at, because it bears so on our subject. It is not simply that He was "found in figure as a man", but He was "in the likeness of men", always unique and distinct; but the thought is that He was at Capernaum, or wherever He dwelt, as we see Him in His

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ordinary circumstances, making no effort to be other than a man, but fulfilling all that is becoming to men. The word 'men' would allude to the variety of circumstances and appearances that we see amongst men. Whether I be highborn or lowborn, uneducated or educated, good-looking or ill-looking, the point is I am in the likeness of men. It is what is current. But in His case, light sprang up: there was no effort about it, no attempt to make a show. It is what was there. In Him was life, and it shone as light for men, as it says in John 1; but here in Matthew it sprang up.

W.E.B. Would the departure into Galilee be anything like the exodus from Egypt, going out with substance? I was thinking of the Lord's departure into Galilee, mentioned in Matthew 4:12, a path of reproach, as moving out into the world?

J.T. I see what you mean: He had been at the Jordan, and had been tempted of the devil. The allusion would be to His being governed by levitical principles. John the baptist had his own place, and he is delivered up; the Lord is guided by that circumstance, taking a lowly place in service. The circumstance of the apprehension of John meant something to Him, showing that He was to occupy ground in testimony; but that is peculiar to Matthew. Galilee is a place of reproach, as you say. Then, following upon that, He was at Nazareth, and He left Nazareth, and went to Capernaum.

H.M.S. Why does the Lord say of Capernaum that it had been exalted to heaven? It is also called "his own city".

J.T. It was exalted to heaven by His living there, and on account of the wonderful works done there by Him; hence the judgment that would be meted out to it in the day of judgment as it says (Matthew 11). I suppose that is the case with any country, or town, or city, that is honoured in that way. Of course, it

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had peculiar force before the Lord's death, because it was then one of the cities of Israel. But that place is responsible as being honoured by the presence of the testimony of God. What one would like to make clear is that at Capernaum the Lord was moving about as others. Of course He was entirely out in the service of God, no longer working with His hands; but He was in that town, and dwelling in that town, as many are in this town; and the moral force of it would be for ourselves: what is shining from us as in this town? Is there anything springing up in the way of light? The springing up would mean that it is there. You look at a man, you look at him again, and you see this springing up.

W.B.H. Is that thought again seen in Philippians 2, where it says: "That ye may be harmless and simple, irreproachable children of God in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation; among whom ye appear as lights in the world, holding forth the word of life"?

J.T. It is a very striking passage. First, "in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation": your ordinary, everyday movements are involved in that: "among whom ye appear as lights", but there is an additional thought now, "holding forth the word of life": that is what you are able to say. The shining is what you are; that is in your everyday experiences and circumstances. Therefore it becomes a test to us as to whether we are depending on what we hold and speak of in our meetings, and overlooking the fact that as taking His place in the likeness of men, the Lord was light in every circumstance among men.

S.B.F. Is His preaching, "Repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn nigh", calculated to produce in us the same kind of spirit?

J.T. It is a question of what you should say, you know. Our brother has just remarked on Philippians 2;

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we are in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation, to appear among them as lights. That is what the Philippians were in relation to one another, and in relation to Christ, too; they were shining. Take Lydia who lived there: she is specially mentioned at the beginning of the work there. You will find that her deportment in her house in relation to her neighbours, and as a woman of affairs, "a seller of purple", in relation to her customers, all would be shining; it is a question of our ordinary circumstances. But if she had opportunity, she would speak about the Lord, she would speak the truth to souls; that is, "holding forth the word of life". So with the jailor, another brother there: he would be shining; even if he continued his position as jailor, he would do it in a way that conveyed the truth of what he was. You would see it in his house; we are told that he laid the table for Paul and Silas; that would be shining; that would be light, not just an ordinary occurrence. What a change in the man! And then he rejoiced with all his house, we are told; he was shining.

Eu.R. Would it be like the children of Israel having light in their dwellings in Egypt?

J.T. Quite so. The passage in Isaiah would show how that even in an uncultivated state, there is the working of life. It is given as a sign in a day of small things: "This shall be the sign unto thee: there shall be eaten this year such as groweth of itself; and in the second year that which springeth of the same; but in the third year sow ye, and reap, and plant vineyards and eat the fruit thereof. And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward"; and then there is the movement out of Jerusalem: "For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and out of mount Zion they that escape; the zeal of Jehovah of hosts shall do this". So that

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the work of God in the young amongst us, and persons recently converted, or even persons not committed to the fellowship, will show itself; it will always show itself. But what is specially in mind is the third year: first, "sow ye", and then, "reap", and then, "plant vineyards and eat the fruit thereof"; that is, we see the working of life; as the Lord says elsewhere, "The earth bears fruit of itself" (Mark 4:28); there is latent life there. As soon as the seed is sown, life becomes operative, and shows itself. That is the thing to look for. However dark a soul may be through bad teaching or wrong associations, if God is working there will be something showing itself. But the thought is, if that is so, cultivation is to begin immediately; the soul is brought under cultivation; so fruit is expected. You know what you are doing; you are cultivating in view of fruit. I refer to this passage because it helps as to our subject, showing how the work of God becomes apparent wherever it is, sometimes crudely, but the spiritual eye discerns it, and cultivates it. The third year suggests the fulness of the thought; life under cultivation.

C.E.W.B. Would the cultivation be by the word of God? I was thinking of the Lord's words in Matthew 4:4: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word which goes out through God's mouth".

J.T. That is part of the thing. There is the thought of cultivation, involving ploughing, sowing, harrowing, and the like. Then there is the eating, too; that is the result: "in the third year sow ye, and reap, and plant vineyards and eat the fruit thereof".

H.P.W. Would you say a word as to the principle of taking root downward and bearing fruit upward? Does that apply to us all in a way in connection with

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soul history with God, productive of life coming out in light and testimony?

J.T. Taking root downward would mean that one learns to judge himself. "Rooted and grounded in love" is the expression we have in Ephesians 3:17. Rooting would mean the disallowance of all the selfishness which is natural to us. Young people are prone to be selfish, and to make themselves the centre of everything. The rooting would mean the judging of all that to make room for unselfishness and sacrifice. It is a figure of speech here: the taking root downwards is an agricultural allusion: you must get the roots down to where the nourishment and moisture are for them in the soil. So that rooting would be in a practical way the disallowance of the selfish elements to make room for love. The rooting is to be where one can draw sap and nourishment. So long as we retain selfishness, and fail to judge all the features of the flesh, there is not the grounding. The grounding would mean that I am steady in that position: I am not susceptible to damage by every wind that blows. Taking root downwards means that a person judges himself unsparingly, the more we do it, the deeper the work goes; and the fruit is upward. Bearing fruit upward would mean that cultivation is implied; because it is in an intelligent setting here. "Out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and out of mount Zion they that escape": it is a question of the purpose of God. The work is showing itself from the standpoint of cultivation in relation to Jerusalem and mount Zion; and that is what I think is implied, that one is ready for the assembly, ready for what we see in figure in John 12.

H.P.W. I think a good many of us are exercised as to the fruit side, but, as you say, the root raises the question of what we take in; all the sap is absorbed through the roots. The fruit is dependent upon what we take in.

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J.T. That is what I thought. So that ministry is important under those circumstances; because I think cultivation is in mind in view of Jerusalem and mount Zion. These are great thoughts of God: "Out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and out of mount Zion they that escape: the zeal of Jehovah of hosts shall do this". There is a result in what is of remnant character; it is in relation to Jerusalem and mount Zion.

H.M.S. Would not these promises be a very great encouragement in a very dark time when the enemy apparently is in possession of the land?

J.T. That is striking, because it is in the midst of the answer to Hezekiah's prayer. This is the sign for Hezekiah -- for any of us who are exercised before God about current conditions -- in the midst of these attacks. It is not simply that we meet them by the word of God, but in life. The sign is in life, in an irregular way, but culminating in a regular way, a cultivated way; and then issuing in a very great result.

F.W.W. Would you distinguish for us between Jerusalem and mount Zion?

J.T. The two terms are very often found together. In a most spiritual way we see them in Hebrews 12 in relation to what we have come to: "Ye have come to mount Zion", which is the underlying thought in the system to which we have come; and then, "to the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem". Jerusalem is the administrative thought, that out of which light and rule issue. Zion is the basic thought, referring to the sovereignty of God: "Here will I dwell", God says, "for I have desired it", Psalm 132:14. It is a question of His own selection. A city, of course, is a structural thought, developing the thought of Zion; they are linked together. The sovereignty of God, set forth in Zion, was earlier than what Jerusalem represents. In

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Ezekiel 16 we have Jerusalem viewed in a marital sense. Jehovah regarding Jerusalem in this way, and referring to how He had found her. Ezekiel 20 is more the general thought of Israel; but in chapter 16 it is Jerusalem. It really develops under Paul's ministry; it is the organised, structural thought, whence all the light, administration and rule issue. So they are great thoughts, and apply to the present moment.

F.W.W. I was wondering whether on similar lines the sun and moon in Genesis 1 are set in their position in relation to light and rule?

J.T. Maybe. Zion is a sort of basic thought, a foundational thought; Jerusalem comes in upon it as an organised protection for the working out of administration; indeed, for the working out of all the divine thoughts that lie in Zion, what God is, the counsels of His love.

Ques. Is this passage in Isaiah particularly comforting as showing the work of God is to go on in a normal way in the production of life in spite of all the opposition around -- the normal development of life?

J.T. In spite of the opposition so burdening Hezekiah at the time. This would be a sign to him. If God is working, we must be encouraged. "Let thy work appear unto thy servants", Moses said (Psalm 90:16); however little it may be, even if it be irregular, and of a mixed kind, yet it is there, and calls forth energy so that it should be there more fully, and in a developed way.

John 12 shows how far the development of life, as seen in Christ, had gone; how great were the results of the Lord's work; how the principle of life was there in unselfish regard for Christ. One selfish element was there in Judas; but in the main what was there was the product of life in light. Lazarus is characteristic of it. Each one is in his or her place,

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functioning as the Lord intended them to function. So it is a local position, as the outcome of life; for Lazarus was raised from the dead, and he was there at table, and persons were believing on Christ because of him, and yet he is not saying anything. So we should have this before us as to the thought of life shining as light. The persons are really sons of light. Not a word is uttered by any of them but Judas, yet the light is shining, so much so that people are coming and believing on Christ because of Lazarus, and Lazarus is saying nothing!

Ques. Would you say that this incident is presented in a family setting?

J.T. It is the best setting in which to see the working out of the truth. We are set together in a family way. It is the very best setting for the work of God to shine, for the light to shine. It is really leading up to the assembly, only it does not go beyond Bethany. The further chapters in John are to perfect us in relation to the assembly. The saints are to be together, not now in employment though Martha was serving, but in the family setting. What brought about this situation? Love to Christ, unselfish consideration for Christ. "They made him a supper", and Mary has the wherewithal to complete the matter, to fill the house with odour. What a scene it is as the product of the work of Christ! for that is what it is. It is a finished matter, so to say.

H.M.S. Is not this passage all the more beautiful because of being preceded and followed by the spirit of murder? In chapter 11: 53 it says "From that day therefore they took counsel that they might kill him", and in chapter 12: 10, "But the chief priests took counsel that they might kill Lazarus also".

J.T. Very good; indeed, this scene is the outcome of the situation in chapter 10, where the Jews surrounded Christ, as if they would circumvent Him,

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and prevent Him proceeding. An awkward situation like that often arises in a locality; brethren feel they can go no further; but the Lord departed "beyond the Jordan to the place where John was baptising at the first", that is, He goes back to first principles; and I believe that chapters 11 and 12 are to show what comes out of first principles. Brethren do not give up because they seem to be circumvented. When they surrounded the Lord, He did not give up; He went beyond the Jordan where John baptised at the first, and, it says, "many believed on him there". So chapter 11 is to bring out what He can do, what can be done. So we should never lose heart, or give up the work. You get the most remarkable result here from the work of Christ. He is not in a hurry; He is patient. The sisters would have had Him there earlier, but He remains away till the opportune time to get the best result; and the best result is what the saints are, conformity to what Christ is. Life is there in chapter 12, and shining; people are believing because of Lazarus, a man who is not saying anything.

Ques. Does he not in that way set forth a man who is risen with Christ?

J.T. Exactly; it is what the man is, not what he is saying or doing; it says, "Where was the dead man Lazarus, whom Jesus raised from among the dead".

H.P.W. What strikes people who see such brethren together is the genuine character of everything. It is pure nard; everything is genuine; the atmosphere is genuine, as the saints are together in love.

J.T. Very good; and the ointment was "kept"; the alabaster is not mentioned at all, meaning, what has already come out in this gospel, that the believer himself is a trustworthy vessel; what he has is not corrupted. We are to "love our Lord Jesus Christ in incorruption", Ephesians 6:24. The alabaster box would mean an artificial means of keeping out corruption;

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but there is no alabaster here. Mary is the alabaster box herself, she keeps out corruption; she is a lover of Christ.

H.B. There could not be corruption where there is life.

J.T. Quite so; life is the greatest preservative. Life is here in every one of them except Judas; he is the only one that breaks the silence. But what a silence it was! Mary represents not only incorruptibility: those who love our Lord Jesus Christ in incorruption; many profess to love Him, but in corruption; but it is to be in incorruption; Mary not only represents that, but she represents one who had thought beforehand about Christ, and had an instinct that He was going to die. She was not deceived; she had the truth. So she kept this ointment for His burial, a mark of spiritual intelligence which involved the seizing of an opportunity to express it, so that the house is filled with the odour of the ointment.

A.W.G.T. Would she be an illustration of one in whom the word of Christ dwelt richly, gathering up all He had said?

J.T. Quite so. She is presented as beginning in that way. The origin of Mary's history lies in what was said on the mount of transfiguration -- not that she heard it there: the word was, "Hear him", that is, Hear Christ. She was in keeping with that. If we are subjects of the work of God we shall be instinctively in keeping with the light for the moment. She had sat at His feet, and had listened to what He was saying, not asking questions -- there was not time for that, for so much was coming out in His word.

Eu.R. Does all this come out in Acts as bearing on the testimony? Peter refers to the Lord as "the originator of life", and then we have the expression, "the words of this life", as seen among the saints.

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J.T. Very good. That word translated 'originator' is used four times in the New Testament; it means one who expresses a thing, and sets it on, giving a lead to what is meant. So "the originator of life" is One who sets it on that we might see it and follow it.

A.H. Is that why Lazarus is so important here as being a continuation of life?

J.T. Just so; he is peculiarly that, because the Lord had him in mind in coming; He had others in mind, too, of course; but the Spirit of God puts it that way: "Jesus ... came to Bethany, where was the dead man Lazarus, whom Jesus raised from among the dead", meaning he is dead as regards Bethany, no longer a man of the town; he belongs to another world. He is not making a show; it is what he is; there is no effort about it. His testimony is effective, even though the Lord is there. Lazarus is a testimony in himself.

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THE ASSEMBLY IN ITS PUBLIC ASPECT AND SPIRITUAL RELATIONS

Luke 24:29 - 43; John 20:11 - 21

J.T. It is thought that, by comparing these scriptures, often read amongst us, we may see in Luke the assembly in its public aspect and in John the assembly viewed in its more spiritual unseen relations, particularly suggesting the assembly as coming out of Christ, coming out of His side, that is, in the Eve character, speaking typically, Mary Magdalene having her part leading into this position, the feminine side bearing on it. John 20 undoubtedly may be linked up with Psalm 22, the heading of which is the hind of the morning, the feminine thought, pointing to the spiritual agility that is seen in this chapter as evidently in the mind of the Lord as He entered into death, that He would have such a result. The feminine thought runs through this chapter in Mary Magdalene, she carrying the message to the disciples; it says, "Mary of Magdala comes bringing word to the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had said these things to her". The Lord comes in following the message, and following not only the message but the one who bore it, who represented an element in herself which will develop into the assembly in its more spiritual aspect. In the Canticles we have, "I am come into my garden, my sister, my spouse" -- the Lord would have her in mind coming in, whether she was present or otherwise the element was there in the message carried by her and would be in His mind in relation to His side; it says, "He shewed to them his hands and his side"; in Luke it was the feet. The side would mean love and therefore the highest feature of the assembly as come out of Him.

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Luke is the public position, the two came there before the Lord came in. It seems as if we should regard them as special; He had them in His mind that they would be there. They do not represent such an exalted thought as Mary Magdalene, for they had been straying; they are viewed as restored. It would be a man and his wife, the public side, for the assembly publicly is composed of such, but corresponding somewhat to Zipporah, the assembly viewed in a somewhat unlovable or unlovely aspect. In a way the conditions do not draw out the Lord's affections as do those recorded in John; He said, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself"; it would be the wilderness position more, but if we follow the feminine thought as in the types, Zipporah represents the public side as to the assembly in an outward sense; and Eve is a more exalted thought as representing the assembly before sin came in. These are the general thoughts I had in mind to be considered, hoping the brethren will be quite free about it.

Rem. I think what you have said greatly helps us in seeing what might be called the scope of the feminine or marital side of things. One feels you have the first thought in many of the types, in Zipporah, and maybe in Asnath too; whereas Ruth and Eve would bring out perhaps the more exalted side of it.

J.T. Yes. Abigail too is strikingly typical of the assembly, not only as lovable -- she is of a beautiful countenance -- but also of a good understanding; she takes the place of carrying out affairs, the young man who heard Nabal's remarks about David went to her about the matter and she took it on. Eve would be the most exalted thought, I think, representing the divine thought as to the assembly before sin came in. Mary Magdalene seems to represent the agility of love, only needing adjustment; she is

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running with the tidings, and finally the Lord calls her by name (we do not get that in Luke, or anything near it), and she calls Him Rabboni, which is a thought that enters into the assembly in its Ephesian character -- taught of Christ; Paul stressed his knowledge of the mystery.

P.H. Is it your thought that we should approach the John 20 side in a practical way via Luke, or are they two separate thoughts you are presenting?

J.T. I suppose they should be taken as one thought; I mean two sides of the same position outwardly. John giving the spiritual and Luke the public side connected with the Lord's supper. John does not mention the breaking of bread, Luke does, therefore the position in Luke is connected with the breaking of bread, it is mentioned in the gathering; whereas John does not make mention of any conversation or remark at all by the disciples, in keeping with his line of presenting the truth on the formative side, what we are, not simply what we say but what we are: "where the disciples were", the persons. But I was thinking particularly of Mary's part in the thing as an element, the idea of the sister and the spouse. She is characteristically a sister because she is at liberty with the brothers in telling them about the truth, and the Lord calls her by name and she calls Him Rabboni, implying she is taught of Him.

E.R. With regard to the side, I had rather linked this up with the previous chapter, where it says, out of His side came there forth blood and water.

J.T. Just so, it is a testimony to love; the reference to the side, I think, refers to the type in Genesis; I mean we are to understand things spiritually. The assembly is out of Christ, she is of Him.

Ques. I would like a little more help as to Luke 24. You are connecting that with the normal wilderness position, a touch from the Lord in our souls, and

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that would lead us to the assembly. Is that the thought?

J.T. Yes, just so. Why should we have this first? It is not merely a question of restoring two wanderers, there is a culmination in mind, an assembly thought in mind. Do they not represent the material of the public body, able to speak about what happened in their houses, what relates to Christ, connecting their remarks with the breaking of bread? that is, they have, you might say, the highest spiritual thoughts as to what was in their house, and they make these thoughts contributory to the public assembly; there is a link between the household and the public assembly. Why should there be this history? It is not simply that these two are restored, but there is a culmination, there is a link between them in their house and the assembly; it is not only their persons as coming from their house but what they say, and yet the general state in the assembly was not what it might have been. It occurred to me there is a link with the wilderness. There is not much said as to Zipporah's personal attractiveness, nor of any reciprocated affection between herself and her husband; of course that would be there, but it is what is mentioned we have to note. We are challenged as to our public position, what we are as seen publicly; although the bond exists between us and Christ, does He find things as He would as coming in? What the Spirit forms in us is perfect; the Lord can look at us abstractly and bring out the most precious thoughts notwithstanding these ugly features. So the two sides of the assembly are in mind, but we are challenged as to the public side and whether we can correct ourselves at once and take the attitude depicted in John 20 where the Lord is pleased.

H.B. Would the sense of blessing in the household contribute to prosperity in the assembly? The Lord blessed the house of Obed-Edom and from that David

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gets the light as to the movements of the ark, leading to general prosperity.

J.T. That is a good thought, for there are three houses in Samuel, the house of Abinadab on the hill, which would suggest a place of elevation as distinctive because the ark was there, but then there is no evidence that his household gained by the presence of the ark; like many of us who go on with the truth, have morning reading and the like, but are we taking on thoughts governing the ark, governing the testimony? When the time came for the movement of the ark, they put it on a cart; that would show they had not gained by the presence of the ark in the house. Then the next house is that of Obed-Edom. He had the ark only three months and it was a makeshift on the part of David, not pre-arranged -- the ark was turned aside into this house. It seems as if Obed-Edom represents a person who valued the presence of the ark, whatever his name may mean; if it means a foreigner it makes it all the more notable that here is a man who is taking things on quickly and God is blessing him quickly; there is a change, it is a different house. And finally David brings the ark to Zion, the city of David, to the place he had prepared for it, and he blesses his house. Obed-Edom is blessed; David is able to bless; although he is despised by his wife, by Michal, he makes everything of the ark now and is able to bless his house. But Abinadab and his family are not learning at all. So what has been suggested fits into Luke 24, what we are in our houses, whether the ark, that is, the testimony today by the Spirit, is in our houses; nominally we may have it and yet not be learning, whereas someone comes in suddenly and gets blessing and light and takes his place amongst us, and he is blessed because of the ark, evidently valuing the ark in his house. He is making no show of it; it is just put in there by David, but God is blessing him. There

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is some secret in that surely. If God is blessing a man the man is right with God. No doubt these two at Emmaus represent this somewhat and come into the assembly; they represent the house side, so necessary for prosperity in the assembly, whether we are able to carry anything from our houses into the assembly, or whether we just hope others will; whether we are just there to receive and enjoy, but bring nothing with us.

Rem. It is rather remarkable that Zipporah takes up the question of circumcision as if driven to it.

J.T. Quite so, there is an altercation between her and her husband. But when she is brought to Moses by her father there is no expression of affection at all by Moses; he makes more of her father than of her, as if to bring out the public side, that is, it is questionable, and the Lord would have us to pay attention to it. If we are to reach John's side we must pay attention to the public side.

Ques. Why are her two sons mentioned in Exodus 18?

J.T. Because of what their names denote -- strangership. Their names are given indicating Moses' sufferings, that is, the sufferings of Christ. The marital thought is there as much as in Eve or Abigail, or anywhere, the bond is there. Their names are mentioned and the meaning of them. Much is made of Jethro, but Zipporah is just mentioned as Moses' wife. She is his wife as much as she could be as to the bond, but as to the side of reciprocated affection there is nothing said.

Rem. I suppose there is hope for hearts that burn.

J.T. Yes, that is to bring out the reality underneath, which implies that we are amenable to correction, correction by spiritual ministration, not by rebuke but by a spiritual presentation of the Lord; it shows how genuine they were at bottom. That is the great thought with all of us; if there is this genuineness of

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affection we are amenable to spiritual impressions, and contribute to the assembly accordingly.

A.J.G. Does this chapter show that the Lord is here to serve us, both in our homes and in the assembly, with a view to our reaching the true thought of God in the assembly?

J.T. Just so. We were thinking this morning that, according to Matthew, the Lord is with us always as if to protect us, to watch over us; He helps us in every circumstance; but John would say He comes to us conditionally in relation to our state.

C.H. The note they finish up with seems to have significance assembly-wise. In Luke they speak of what happened in the way and how He was known of them in the breaking of bread.

J.T. I think they represent an element in the assembly that the Lord can follow; He came in in relation to what they were saying, "as they were saying these things". John would give Mary that place, the wholly spiritual side, because the Lord had spoken to her about ascending and she calls Him Rabboni; she came carrying the message. There must be something the Lord can link Himself with positively in the assembly.

Ques. Had they been disappointed in the public setting up of Israel. "We had hoped that he was the one who is about to redeem Israel"; whereas the Lord had to open up the whole range of truth connected with Himself, beginning from the beginning?

J.T. Yes. You feel how the Old Testament is essential to the public assembly, because there is so much there in relation to Christ that has to do with the public service of God; but the Old Testament is not in mind in Mary Magdalene, it is an ascended Christ, which is not the theme in the Old Testament; it is the purpose of God in mind in John.

Ques. Is it of interest that in Luke they are moving away as disappointed, but in John we have

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Mary staying at the tomb as if everything is to begin there?

J.T. She is held by genuineness of affection for Christ as if to her He is everything. She had Old Testament thoughts, which were just replaced by the heavenly position. The Lord said, "Touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my Father", meaning that the time would come when she could touch Him and have part with Him in a heavenly order of things.

P.H. You referred just now to the reference to the sister, the spouse, in the Song of Solomon; am I right in suggesting that the spouse, while mentioned first by Himself, has to be approached along the basic line of sister?

J.T. Yes, in chapter 4, you mean. Verse 9 Says, "My sister, my spouse"; then verse 12, "A garden enclosed is my sister, my spouse"; then chapter 5: 1, "I am come into my garden, my sister, my spouse".

A.J.G. Also chapter 4: 10 -- the peculiar value of the love of the sister, the spouse.

J.T. Well, the thought of the spouse being mentioned first in verse 8 would mean, I suppose, that is the ultimate thought, the marital, which the word 'spouse' would imply; but the sister, I suppose, would be in Mary, she might be regarded as a characteristic sister in relation to Christ. He calls her by name, Mary, and then she takes the Lord's message; surely He would have her in mind, that there is a spouse thought there.

A.J.G. Would you mind saying a word as to the connection between the Eve view of the assembly and this heavenly position, "My Father and your Father, and ... my God and your God"?

J.T. It would seem as if both thoughts contemplate us as entirely outside the range of sin and death -- Eve is taken out of Adam before sin appears; the relation indicated here in the Lord's message through Mary would mean that we are entering now

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on a history altogether free of any charge of ever having had sin attached to it. We cannot really be in the assembly in its heavenly side apart from the understanding of that.

Rem. You are connecting that with the spouse. Would you open up a little more the thought of the sister in contradistinction to that?

J.T. Eve was never Adam's sister, yet, with all the thoughts we have as to assembly features. She was his sister, being the feminine feature; she was of God as he was: "male and female created he them", two beings under the heading of Man. She would have a peculiar place, there would be some link in the sense of sister in her, but she immediately became wife, for Jehovah brought her to the man.

C.H. Would the sisterly side come out later in their history, in the working out of moral questions between them and Jehovah?

J.T. No doubt it would. The sisterly side is more pronounced in Rebecca, because in that family we have the sisterhood, that is the relationship of sister, before the marital thought. It seems to have been in the mind of God that this family should be marked by the sisterhood, that is, Terah's family. They are all related to the man of faith. Sarah is related to Abraham and Rebecca is related to Isaac, and Rachel is related to Jacob on that line, coming down from the sisterhood of Terah's family.

Rem. You mean the sister involves history, whereas the spouse is more the thought of God reached according to purpose.

J.T. Yes. Eve would represent the spouse, and I think, as I was remarking, we could see the sister there too; but it seems as if the divine thought is that Rebecca is brought in on that line; she is the wife of the heavenly man, for Isaac is not said to have come down from the mountain where he was

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offered up typically. Abraham went down to Beersheba with his young men, but Isaac is not said to come down; he is the Christ typically of John 20, he belongs to heaven, and the sisterhood is immediately mentioned in the end of Genesis 22, that is, Rebecca is brought in immediately as the one related to him.

A.J.G. Is the sister brought in to show the spouse is of the right lineage?

J.T. Yes, and the side of Christ being shown by Himself in John 20 points to the origin of Eve.

Ques. Are both sides to be in our minds in the Supper, or is it principally the spiritual side?

J.T. I think it is both sides. Zipporah comes into view before the covenant is introduced. It would seem the wife idea is in view as we sit down in the assembly; the assembly must be related to Christ, for we are to be to Another, according to Romans, but it is just in the bare thought of the bond; we come into it later, according to the fulness of the affection entering into it. It is there; the assembly is just as much the spouse of Christ at the beginning of the meeting as she is at the end, only we are on more spiritual lines after the breaking of bread.

Ques. Is the marital relation essentially one of love, and do we need divine teaching to come into it, as Mary did?

J.T. I think she is on the higher line. Zipporah implies the bond is there; we recognise it is there as we come together, but then we wait for the time of love. It is the time of love in a general way from the outset, but the time of reciprocated affection awaits the Spirit's operations and the Lord in the midst. He comes near to us and supports us, as we get in the Canticles. We find there too that she who comes up from the wilderness is presented first as coming up by herself; it is the Spirit of God supporting us in the early part of the meeting; but, when

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the Lord comes in, the thought of leaning on her Beloved is in mind, so He supports us in the more spiritual part of the service.

Ques. Would Miriam be the counterpart of Zipporah as watching over the vessel of testimony?

J.T. It is the sister there, anyway.

Ques. In regard to the expression 'sister', do I understand it to find expression or give rise to any particular feature at the Supper, or is it what precedes as we gather?

J.T. It is, I think, what the Lord finds amongst us as coming in, "I am come into my garden, my sister ..."; it is as having come in He addresses her in that way, and proceeds to say, "I have gathered my myrrh with my spice; I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey; I have drunk my wine with my milk". He is in liberty and enjoyment Himself in the garden, but addressing His sister and then His Spouse, which would lead on to the higher relation indicated in Eve and Rebecca.

Ques. So would the sister represent kindred morally?

J.T. It has been remarked that Moses had a sister who cared for him, and Rebecca is distinctively the sister as of the same family; she is not presented as caring for Isaac, but she is mentioned, in the end of chapter 22, as of his family, of the family of his father; she is mentioned specifically by name.

Ques. Is there any significance in the fact that Zipporah and Abigail come in in relation to the service of God under Moses and David, while Rebecca and Eve do not seem to come in exactly in that way?

J.T. Yes, I think Rebecca and Eve present the most exalted side of the assembly; Eve as out of Christ typically, apart altogether from the sin question, Rebecca coming in as descended from the same family as Isaac, and loved only as she is in the sphere

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of testimony. She is brought into Sarah's tent and it is there she is loved. It is the assembly viewed as in the position of testimony here that is lovable; and Zipporah had that place too, only there is nothing mentioned as to lovableness in her. Now Mary Magdalene comes in on the line of lovableness spiritually; she is adjustable and comes thoroughly round to the Lord's position, and He calls her Mary, which would indicate a certain familiarity that belongs to a sister. It seems to me that the thought is there; she is characterised in the chapter by free communication with brothers, with Peter and John, telling them what she saw, and they move on her testimony. She remained long at the sepulchre, and the Lord comes on the scene; she converses with the angels at the sepulchre, and now she converses with the Lord, all on a high sisterly level entirely becoming in every way. Ultimately she is called by name by the Lord and that moves her. She calls Him Rabboni, and then there is the message she carries. All that carries the thought of the sister.

Rem. So the thought of the sister is connected with being teachable and serviceable, but the marital relation is the thought of bringing out the position with Christ in privilege.

J.T. It is a question first of what is there spiritually. Well, He entrusts her with the greatest possible message; she is reliable. I believe the Lamb's wife means reliability; He can trust her. That element, I believe, is there as He comes in, and everything, as He comes in, takes form. He brings out the thought of His side; there is light in that. It is written, of course, for our instruction; as having the Holy Spirit now and understanding what the assembly's relation to Christ is, we can see what enters into this moment. There is no discrepancy at all in the disciples; they do not say anything, it is all a question now of what He is saying.

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Ques. Do you bring the spouse thought into John 20?

J.T. I think so.

Rem. You were speaking of it being a matter of persons rather.

J.T. Well, it is a matter of persons; but persons viewed abstractly as formed by the work of God compose the spouse. We can see all that now. The gospels are confirmatory of the truth as in the epistles, and it seems to me that John confirms Ephesians.

Rem. "I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God" -- is not that a statement that covers the whole dispensation? It is not only connected with what we may arrive at in the morning meeting, is it?

J.T. It covers the whole dispensation, but it also presents thoughts that should be in our minds at the morning meeting.

Rem. But you are presenting it now rather as we should enter into it in the assembly.

J.T. That is what I had in mind, that we might understand the assembly composition. We take these two coming from Emmaus, it is supposed a man and his wife, they have a household. Luke would show that is what enters into the public assembly, man and woman, but the thought in mind is the fact that they carry out of their house something for the assembly, that their house is in accord with the assembly; what they were saying was entirely in accord with the assembly, they were saying that the Lord was risen indeed and had appeared to Simon. Is it not right to assume that that was in the Lord's mind in the whole proceedings. He had the assembly in His mind? These two were there before He came, they represent suitability in a public way: as they were saying these things He came in. But evidently the whole assembly was not

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equal to those two. I do not suppose they would have part in the perturbation and amazement that followed, I have no doubt they had already experienced the appearing of Christ; it was not extraordinary to them. Others were affected and therefore they held the ground, that is, that element holds the ground in the public position. It is a question of what we are in our houses and whether we can absorb impressions the Lord is ready to convey to us in our houses and carry those impressions into the public position. There is no dignity in perturbation and amazement when the Lord comes in. Luke helps us, I think, on this line of the public position, and John shows us that, in that manner, we have a sister, not a husband and wife, not two, for it is Mary that is in mind in the main, and she comes in for the greatest honour. They went on their own volition and what they were saying was their own thought and impression, but Mary came in with a message, although recognised as a sister as called by name in a familiarity that is proper in a sister. But in assembly the Lord had the marital thought in mind as amongst them. He showed them His hands and His side, I think it would be a service of love He had in mind; the fact that she came out of Adam's side.

Rem. They were glad when they saw the Lord in John.

J.T. Yes.

P.H. Would this mean, amongst other things, that in the marital side the Lord raises the saints, so to speak, to His own level? Is that right?

J.T. That is just; Mary is raised to His level in what is said to her and in the message.

P.H. So that He says, "My Father and your Father, and to my God and your God"; is the marital thought, in a sense, included in that, although not prominent?

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J.T. Well, the family thought is there, that is, that the saints are raised to His level on family lines. It is only as we understand that, that we are of His order that we are constituted suitable to be united to Him.

Ques. In referring to Psalm 22, did you have the thought in mind, "I will declare thy name unto my brethren"?

J.T. Partly, but I was thinking the heading has the feminine thought in it, as if that is what the Lord had in mind in entering into death; He had great results before Him, the hind of the morning, the freshness and agility of love which is seen strikingly in Mary in John 20. The Lord, seeing that the gold was there, brought it all into evidence and removed all the dross. The real thing was there and He ultimately brought her to that, so that she is elevated, in the message, to His level, as of His family: His Father is her Father, and His God is her God. It is the elevation we get: "I ascend". He says, "to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God". It is His own order and that qualifies us for having part in the assembly from the spiritual side.

Rem. So nothing is said to Mary as to His side, that is reserved for the brethren as together.

J.T. That is what I was thinking; it is inside that you get that; it is the private or wholly spiritual side that John presents; there is no discrepancy, the Lord is adjusting everything, putting everything in its place.

Rem. So we should expect to get something from the Lord that would elevate us to His level before we really touch His side, a real touch from the Lord as in the assembly.

J.T. That is why I thought, in linking these two chapters together, we see this whole thought. We get the marital side particularly in Eve.

Ques. Would the bride's charge to the daughters of Jerusalem in Canticles not to awake her love till

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he pleased, suggest a state of expectancy in our hearts?

J.T. Quite so, that is what comes out. There is nothing in John to drive back the Lord's affection, there was in Luke, but not in John: He is free to do this, to show them His hands and His side, and to say, "Peace", to them twice. First they were glad when they saw Him, then He says, "Peace", to them again, as if this would consolidate what was there -- and we must have that. I believe the repetition of "Peace be to you", is that the Lord is consolidating the position; they were glad when they saw Him. He consolidates that by a second "Peace be to you".

H.P. And does the thought of the Lord standing in the midst of His own suggest the service of the Lord in relation to the assembly? We have in Hebrews 2, "In the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises".

J.T. Yes, He is standing there; that is another matter, that He is ready to serve further, but there is no discrepancy. It says, "Having said this, he shewed to them his hands and his side", and then, "The disciples rejoiced therefore, having seen the Lord. Jesus said therefore again to them, Peace be to you" -- as if the position is consolidated.

A.J.G. What is the thought in this gospel of the hands as well as the side?

J.T. I think the means of the expression of love. We are told in the Canticles that "His left hand is under my head, and his right hand doth embrace me". It seems to be the means of expressing love, but the side is the source, showing the source of everything in the spiritual realm.

Rem. So that the showing will not be just the light we have in our souls in a general way, but a fresh presentation of Christ as we are together.

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J.T. That is the thought. Consolidation, I think, is a great matter before we proceed to the service of God, that we are on sure ground spiritually. We are of His order and now love is showing itself setting us free spiritually, and then He proceeds to speak about the Father, showing that the Father is in His mind.

Ques. Would association in John 20 be higher than union in Ephesians?

J.T. I do not think so, I think they are correlative. Those who are associated with Him as His companions are qualified to be united to Him. All this we are speaking of is of the highest value in our souls in the power of the Spirit as in that position.

Ques. Is there not the Father's side in regard to the bride? You have drawn attention to the great thought of Abraham about Isaac, and to the way Ephesians brings it out, too.

J.T. Yes, there is the other side.

P.H. Is your thought in drawing attention to the side that way is made now for seeing that these thoughts originated in God? God originated this thought in Genesis 2He said, "It is not good that the man should be alone".

J.T. So that the marital position in the assembly would mean it is God's pleasure it should be so, more is yielded to Him through it: "To be to another, who has been raised up from among the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God". What follows on that is that we might serve in newness of spirit.

Rem. It is remarkable how Romans touches the germ of so much that is developed in Ephesians.

J.T. I think Romans is the basic position in christianity and Ephesians the top stone.

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GRACE

2 Samuel 4:4; 2 Samuel 9:1 - 13; 2 Samuel 19:24 - 30

What is in mind this evening is to speak about grace. This book sets it out in general, but these passages in particular, Mephibosheth being selected for the purpose. The book of 2 Samuel has a unique place in the inspired records, beginning with grace in the believer: the song of the bow, as it is called, embodying magnanimous feelings in the believer toward an enemy, for in christianity we are enjoined to exhibit grace in this way, "If thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head" (Romans 12:20); that is complete victory of good over evil. The song of the bow is like a pillar at the beginning of the book, as embodying David's feelings towards Saul and Jonathan; and then we have the song of Jehovah's deliverance at the end of chapter 22. On the one hand, what the believer is through grace, how magnanimous he can be, how forgiving he can be, how gracious he can be, how able to overcome evil with good, at the same time exhibiting dependence on God in the most beautiful manner; and, on the other hand, the song of God's deliverance, for that is chapter 22, sung to Jehovah in the day that He had delivered His servant out of all his trouble and from all his enemies. These are like two pillars on which the whole book stands; a book which, at the same time, records the most serious sins of David. He is one in whom God would set out His grace, on the one hand, so that it is exhibited in him; and, on the other hand, God's deliverance. His faithful power in deliverance, which the believer can always reckon upon; power too in himself in the deliverance, as he could say, "By thee I have run through a troop; by my God have I leaped over a wall". What can a

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believer not do under God, if God is in him helping him! His greatest victory is his moral victory, that is, victory in a moral sense over his enemies.

This book develops these thoughts and in so doing brings out the house of Saul. Saul is dead, signalised, as I said, in grace by David, but dead, and yet his house remains -- a very important thing to bear in mind. The house of Saul remains; it is all around us, dear brethren, at the present time. But David, not his house, we are told, grew continually stronger. That is the position. Of course the house of Saul had great influence, and has now; the official religious dominance all around is not to be overlooked, but, at the same time, David is becoming continually stronger. That obviously is to be in our souls, dear brethren, for the grace period is the faith period, and the faith period is the period in which Christ is allowed to come in so as to be in us. "If Christ be in you, the body is dead on account of sin, but the Spirit life", Romans 8:10. How can Christ but become continually greater, continually stronger, as scope is given to Him in the disallowance of the flesh, the body being dead?

Now in chapter 4 we have the introduction of Mephibosheth. The Spirit of God gives us no notice as to why he is introduced; it is in the midst of great events, all in David's favour under the government of God, not yet his own exploits, but events happening without him. There is much of that today, events happening in our favour in which we have no part directly; God is doing it. And so Abner dies and Ishbosheth dies, men standing in the way of David. Who effected their deaths is not the point; it is all in favour of David. Why then Mephibosheth? Is he in David's way? No. Still, he was of the house of Saul, who was formerly the reigning king. Ishbosheth was the son of Saul; he is called that and only that in these early verses. Jonathan also is the son of Saul, and Mephibosheth is Jonathan's son;

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why is he brought in? Is it not in relation to David? Is it simply to show that favour is shown to a certain person? It is all in relation to David. What am I, or what is any one of us here, if he is not in relation to David? What is one's history, if it is not in relation to David, if it has no bearing on Christ and His glory? Nothing. All else must go but what bears on Christ, what exalts Christ; and Mephibosheth is an exalter of Christ as the vessel of grace; he is of great value therefore. If the king is to die, if Abner is to die, Mephibosheth is to live; all have relation to David, two negatively, one positively, and each of us wishes to be that one positively in relation to David. So he is set here in the picture, a dark picture indeed, but a governmental picture. God has a hand in it and He is furnishing David with excellent material to exhibit his grace, for what marks our dispensation is grace.

Mephibosheth is mentioned in verse 4; he had a nurse. He was five years of age when the great calamity happened on mount Gilboa. It is well that believers, the subjects of grace, should recall their histories. Each of us has his history. I may be very little in men's account, but, if I am a believer, my history has always been of account in heaven. Every believer's history is known in heaven; not only what he has been since he became a believer, but before. He has been selected like Mephibosheth, like the man in John 9, that "the works of God should be manifested in him". There is no blame attaching to Mephibosheth here; the nurse of course may have been at fault, though one would hesitate to say much about her, for it was a time of disaster; but she was a nurse, and a nurse's business is not only to save life, but to save members of the body. The apostle Paul was a nurse, he was a nurse to the Thessalonians. I suppose he had great pleasure in them, as mothers have in lovely children. They were lovely in his

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eyes, and he virtually says, You are lovely in God's eyes, for you are "in God the Father". Let us seek, dear brethren, as endeavouring to serve the saints, to love them. I shall never love them if I do not respect them; respect must go before love. And so the apostle says he was as a nurse, "as a nurse", he says, "would cherish her own children" (1 Thessalonians 2:7), the skill of the nurse allied with the affections of the mother. The nurse here evidently failed in this, but, if God is going to exhibit grace, He is not enlarging on the failures that give Him opportunity to express grace, He is not wishing to expose anyone. We should not have the failures of godly men of old were it not that we need examples, we need reproof, we need to see how failures come about and avoid them; and, if they do come about, how to avail ourselves of the provision made for them. This book is not wanting in that; it is strikingly instructive on that line. The five year old child became lame, and many suffer in this way, deformed christians, on account of bad nursing. That is the picture in chapter 4. It is said his name was Mephibosheth, a name that stands out in the annals of grace from that day to this.

So this verse (chapter 4: 4) awaits chapter 9. Much happened in the meantime. The insertion here is to prepare us for chapter 9. Let us not forget things as we read Scripture, but carry the thoughts forward, for they are cumulative, and if I miss an early note I may fail to understand a later one. We are to be students of Scripture, diligent readers; as Philip says, "Understandest thou what thou readest?". The Lord says, "How readest thou?". It is not only that we are to read the Bible each day, but how do we do it? So, carrying forward the question in chapter 9, we see how God had in His mind to bring out what He had deposited in David. David rises here to a type of Christ, for, as God knew, he

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was already characterised by grace and had exhibited it to Saul in his remarks in the early part of the book. Now God says to David: I have reserved this person so that you might have an excellent subject to whom to show the kindness of God. One would like to retain the attitude of Mephibosheth. He is not exactly a type of a sinner; he is a man who was damaged on account of another, on account of circumstances, as the Lord says of the man in John 9, "Neither has this man sinned nor his parents, but that the works of God should be manifested in him". So it is with each believer, for a believer never loses the attitude that he has been brought into being to be a subject of grace, to exhibit the glory of God; that is what I am in the universe for, "They that are wise shall shine as the brightness of the expanse; and they that turn the many to righteousness as the stars, for ever and ever", Daniel 12:3. It is a question of shining, that is, expressing what God is in Christ, reflecting it, and Mephibosheth is a good model. No one who takes up that attitude in his soul will become unruly; he will fail in the divine thought if he does. He is simply a subject of mercy, brought into being to be that, never losing the sense of that, held here awaiting the opportunity for Christ, the true David, to call for him.

David does not ask Mephibosheth if he is Mephibosheth; he says to Ziba, "Art thou Ziba?" -- but "Mephibosheth", just Mephibosheth. David experienced this himself, his introduction to us is just "David", without any notice as to whence he is -- David. Of course he was Jesse's son, but I mean it is just "David", not "his name was David"; and Mephibosheth is "Mephibosheth"; he has a fixed place in the annals of grace. David calls out the name, that is all, known in heaven, just as everyone who repents is known in heaven, "Behold thy servant!". David loses no time, he proceeds at once

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as the opportunity offers. One great feature of the system into which we have come, dear brethren, is a readiness to do things when the opportunity arises. The time had come when Mephibosheth should be called into evidence and he is named.

David acts nobly; it is one of the brightest chapters in his history. The chapter is well known; it is a great gospel chapter, and rightly. What I want to show now is that Mephibosheth, as a subject of grace, maintains the dignity that grace accords to him. We all assume to be subjects of grace, but I want to show how Mephibosheth retained this sense of grace, this sense that he was an object of mercy throughout; the slander of his servant does not move him. The chapter outlines what he became, and the Spirit of God seems to enlarge on it. "Mephibosheth", David says, "shall eat at my table, as one of the king's sons"; "one" of them, there are others, he is to be amongst them. There is nothing perfunctory about it. David does not seem to have any difficulty or any compunction about placing him there as one of the king's sons. Now Mephibosheth has a son, for there is to be a continuance of this, and, without enlarging unduly on this, there is a suggestion of productiveness on the part of the subjects of grace. It is a poor thing if one passes off without there being some evidence of having passed on some influence of grace here, whether in one's own family or among the saints, but I am speaking of it particularly in a spiritual sense. How can anyone be easy in his mind if he is passing from the scene without leaving something in the way of sons to remind people of his influence in the testimony?

Now Saul has a servant; it is well to keep Ziba in mind in all this. He is Saul's servant; he has that place, owned to be that. But he is a man who has influence, too; see the number of children he has! "Ziba had fifteen sons and twenty servants". We

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must keep him in mind in this inquiry. He is under orders here from the king to be subservient to Mephibosheth. He was Saul's servant, he is now David's subject under orders unconditionally to be the servant of Mephibosheth; he and his sons and his servants are to till the land for him, and bring in its fruits. I am mentioning all this about Ziba so that we may understand what we have to contend with in our times. As I said before, we are surrounded with the house of Saul, it is the official religious system -- I do not say, systems, for they all bear the same character, they are all varieties of the same thing, the house of Saul. This man is a representative servant; he will serve the saints if it suits him, but he has himself before him. He is a man of influence, fifteen sons and twenty servants. He served the saints, he served Mephibosheth evidently; at least it is put before him to do so, but he serves himself. If he is recognised, as he is later, as Mephibosheth's servant, he has himself in mind. I am mentioning this because we are to retain grace in spite of such an influence, and not to succumb to it. How are we to maintain grace, dear brethren, save as we keep Christ clearly in mind, that the whole position is under Him? Ziba will not fail to be a good christian if it is needed to minister to himself; he will not fail to do that. As David is in rejection he comes out with his asses and his bread and his wine, skilfully designed to gain the king's sympathy. It is after the king passes the summit of Olivet; he is no longer, for the moment, a type of Christ, he is simply a believer, but he has passed the supreme spiritual touch or summit. Ziba comes, he comes with his story, he comes with his slander, and David accepts it; hence the peculiar difficulty now confronting this great subject of grace, namely, Mephibosheth. Is he going to stand, or is he to succumb? Is he to go down under this overpowering influence that is

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now acquired by Ziba? Is it so with us, dear brethren? Are we to succumb to this influence around us? It touches us constantly.

Mephibosheth never gave way; we are told he "neither washed his feet, nor trimmed his beard, nor washed his clothes, from the day the king departed until the day he came again in peace". He is maintaining his ground. He is not putting on religious clothes in sympathy with Absalom, he is no part of the secret service which David left; he is not mentioned in connection with it but he is publicly on David's side at the very height of Absalom's reign. The supreme test is coming, but he is establishing himself; he is loyal to Christ and will put on no dress, nothing at all to indicate his loyalty to Absalom: as we read here, he "neither washed his feet, nor trimmed his beard, nor washed his clothes". I suppose all this was his very salvation; it would bring reproach. We are afraid of reproach even in our dress. How often do we dress to gain the respect of the worldly, to be conformed to this world, especially in feminine dress and ways! "Be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind", Romans 12:2. Of course Mephibosheth never acted like this in David's house, or at David's table; he is simply refusing to be conformed to Absalom's world, and his very non-conformity to it would serve to become his salvation from it. The more we are not conformed to this world the more we are saved from it. Young men are enjoined, "Love not the world" -- especially when they get married and buy their houses and their cars. Non-conformity to the world is our salvation in very large measure. We do not fit, we are objectionable to the world, and our very objectionableness is our salvation very often. So Mephibosheth in all those weeks or months of David's absence neither washed his feet, nor trimmed his beard, nor washed his clothes. You

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might say, I should not like to live near him. Very good. It is the spiritual side. If the worldling says that, very good. If you do not want my companionship, I am saved from you, and that is a very great matter.

But now the supreme test is coming, I want you to notice verse 25 before going on. The New Translation says, "as soon as Jerusalem came to meet the king". Jerusalem here is a great spiritual thought that the overcomer in Philadelphia understands. I believe that Mephibosheth is an overcomer, and we all want to be overcomers. The overcomer in Philadelphia is promised much; he is to go no more out, but he is to have a new name, "The name of the city of my God", the Lord Jesus says, "the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven, from my God". Jerusalem is stamped on him -- think of all it means! -- hardly a subject in Scripture more interesting than Jerusalem from its inception till the finish, the eternal thought; and it is stamped on the overcomer of our day, this very day. When Jerusalem came to meet the king, a remarkable expression, is Mephibosheth not to be there? Certainly he is to be there; he is the leading thought, the outstanding thought, in the city. I should like to have seen him coming down to meet the king; it is not simply the inhabitants of Jerusalem, but Jerusalem; the great king, in principle, is coming to his capital. Why not come to meet him? Mephibosheth is there. He is already fortified; were he not fortified he would be overcome, for the king cannot be said to be a type of Christ here. He is here a type of a wrongly influenced believer, and the more spiritual I am, the more damage I shall do if I am wrongly influenced. Mephibosheth had to face this. The king says to him, "Why didst thou not go with me, Mephibosheth?" -- a very fair question, you might say. David is already influenced, as the sequel shows; he is not ready to accept his word.

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Mephibosheth was spiritually the greatest man in Jerusalem, and yet I may be influenced against him; hence the need, as the Lord says in the great assembly gospel, of every word being established in the mouth of two or three witnesses.

First of all, he tells the truth about his servant, "He said, My lord, O king, my servant deceived me; for thy servant said, I will saddle me the ass, and ride thereon, and go with the king; for thy servant is lame". Will any of Ziba's sons or servants help us to go to the king in the crucial time? No, they will never direct us heavenward; they will teach us religion, of course, but to direct the soul heavenward is another matter. Ziba is not doing it now, he is not aiding Mephibosheth; he was enjoined to serve him, but he is not doing it now, he is thinking of himself. The apostle says, "Ourselves your bondmen for Jesus' sake". What about Ziba? It is for his own sake; we have to watch that. He may serve the saints, or pretend to, but he is serving himself, and we have to watch that influence, watch anyone who does not direct us to Christ. He is thinking of himself. Paul says, "We do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus Lord, and ourselves your bondmen for Jesus' sake", 2 Corinthians 4:5.

Mephibosheth is maintaining grace, and one of the greatest things at the moment is to maintain in our souls the sense of grace, that we will not succumb to opposition, to unfair treatment, for the world is full of it. He says to the king "Do therefore what is good in thy sight. For all my father's house were but dead men before my lord the king; and thou didst set thy servant among them that eat at thine own table. What further right therefore have I? and for what should I cry any more to the king?". He is a subject of mercy now, as he was before, and let us hope to be that, dear brethren, until the end, to exhibit this wonderful feature of the dispensation to the very end.

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The Lord Jesus says, I am still sitting on My Father's throne. It is grace; even in speaking to Laodicea, He is on His Father's throne administering the grace of the Father's heart, for the title "the Father" means that; it is a title that denotes grace, and the Lord is exhibiting that to the very last moment of the dispensation. I want to be in that, too; it is a great opportunity for us, dear brethren, to finish up in this way.

So Mephibosheth goes on to say, "All my father's house were but dead men before my lord the king; and thou didst set thy servant among them that eat at thine own table. What further right therefore have I? and for what should I cry any more to the king?". His integrity is complete; he is standing by the mercy and grace in which he was taken up, he is standing by it firmly, even in the presence of unfair treatment. He goes on, and the king is not moved apparently; he says, "Why speakest thou any more of thy matters? I have said, Thou and Ziba divide the land". The keenest thrust! you might say. He had just been laying before the king the facts of the case, and now it is. Yourself and Ziba; he is put on the same level in the king's mind as Ziba as to the inheritance. But he says, That is not in my mind. He is triumphant. The Spirit of God tells us, it seems to me in triumphant language, "Mephibosheth said to the king, Let him even take all, since my lord the king is come again in peace to his own house". He is a victorious believer, acting without resentment; overcoming slander, maintaining a right spirit, and asserting in the plainest language that Christ and Christ only is his object. He is a lover of Christ's appearing. As the apostle says, a crown of righteousness belongs to all those who love His appearing. So there is every incentive, not only for the future but in the present, to maintain the spirit of grace constantly.

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Pages 142 to 466, 'Strangership' and Other Ministry 1939 - 40. (Volume 210). One item 'Notes of a Word at a Burial' has been omitted but has been included in New Series Volume 49, page 550.

STRANGERSHIP

Exodus 18:1 - 4; Hebrews 11:8 - 16; Isaiah 56:3 - 8

J.T. I was thinking of strangership, in a practical sense. It is well to keep it in mind that believers are so regarded, especially when surrounded by attractive creative features. Moses and Abraham are singled out in these scriptures as exponents of the thought. They both link up their strangership with their families, Moses, as it were, injecting the thought into the name of his son Gershom; he would be in the family, and the thought would be stamped upon the family. The naming of Gershom is spoken of in Exodus 2, and here: "For he said, I have been a sojourner in a foreign land" (verse 3). Abraham dwelt in tents with Isaac and Jacob, we are told, "the heirs with him of the same promise", maintaining his strangership. It does not seem to have included Esau. Esau was a man of the field; he would not take on the thought. Young people do well to keep in mind these things, because the field is attractive, the country is attractive. According to Mark, the two who were going out, I suppose the same two as Luke speaks of as going to Emmaus, were "going into the country", whereas Simon the Cyrenian was coming out of the country. But Moses comes first as illustrative of how a man's faith and his principles are interwoven with his family. Joseph's two boys also represented his faith and experience. These parents help to show how families of believers are maintained in the attitude of faith. "Manasseh" is 'forgetfulness'. Joseph was enabled by God to

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forget his natural relationships. And then there is "Ephraim", 'fruitfulness', showing that he was fruitful even in those circumstances, outside his natural relationships. Moses helps us as to those who have part in the service of God as strangers here, so that of his two sons, the one would be a constant reminder of his strangership, and the other of the power of God in that, "Eliezer" meaning 'El is my help'.

Isaiah shows how those who accept strangership and limitations in a natural way, "the son of the alien" and "the eunuchs", come in for better things than nature can afford in God's house. So that we are "no longer strangers and foreigners, but ... fellow-citizens of the saints, and of the household of God". Ephesians 2:19.

H.E.F. I judge that you think there is a danger that those who live in surroundings such as we are in might find difficulty in keeping up this thought of strangership.

J.T. If you grow up in a place, even though you may be a christian, you are apt to think you are of it. In a certain sense you are of it; God owns you as such. He recognises the Corinthians and the Galatians by their respective names, but that is only to bring out what He can bring about in a locality. For instance, "The assembly of Thessalonians in God the Father", shows they were not in Thessalonica characteristically as of it but outside it as "in God the Father". That is the balance.

H.E.F. What would bring about the condition of strangership with us?

J.T. Hebrews shows how it came about with Abraham. It says, "By faith Abraham, being called, obeyed to go out into the place which he was to receive for an inheritance, and went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he sojourned as a stranger in the land of promise as a foreign country,

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having dwelt in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; for he waited for the city which has foundations, of which God is the artificer and constructor". I suppose obedience is the thing. We know there was more than that, for the God of glory appeared to him there: that is, God reveals Himself, and reminds you in one way or another that this is not your place, however fair it may seen to be -- "thy land, and ... thy kindred, and ... thy father's house", Genesis 12:1.

F.D. Is our experience something like Daniel's? We are found in a country, not our own, and we really belong to another scene. His exercise was that he should not defile himself.

J.T. Quite so; and he opened his windows three times a day, and prayed towards the place that belonged to him. Our windows are opened towards heaven. The Lord Jesus lifted up His eyes to heaven, and prayed, and said, "Father!"

H.E.F. I suppose what was of the greatest value to Moses was in another country.

J.T. Of course he fled from Egypt; he was known as an Egyptian in Midian; but he was not known at all. The fact is, the world knows us not. Jethro's daughters thought he was an Egyptian, but in truth he was an Israelite. He had recognised his brethren in Egypt, and by so doing had got into trouble, and fled. He was coming into his calling: he was thoroughly Israelitish in his birth and calling but not in his upbringing, for he was brought up in Pharaoh's house; but he came into his proper setting, to his brethren, Abraham's seed. He came out to look upon his brethren; he accepted the reproach of Christ.

H.E.F. Although he broke down, he was thoroughly committed to that people, and to the God of that people.

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A.H. It says of him, "Esteeming the reproach". Do we lack in that, in having an estimation of that which is associated with what God has honoured?

J.T. Quite so: it was "the reproach of Christ", too.

F.W.W. So the stranger got great blessing by keeping near the people of God; that is to say, he would be sharing their reproach.

J.T. He does not isolate himself: he cannot sustain himself in isolation. Is that what you have in mind?

F.W.W. Yes, and there are scriptures which speak of him as being linked up with the people in the feasts -- "thy stranger that is within thy gates".

J.T. Moses went out to look on his brethren.

A.H. Referring again to the country: I suppose you would say that where, in the government of God, a brother's circumstances are set, the Lord would help him, and all in such circumstances; but as leaving the city and coming into the country as an objective, he would hardly expect divine support in that?

J.T. Quite so. There is a good deal of that in the large cities. We can, perhaps, have sympathy with young families and their parents; yet it is a challenge to us whether we are going into the country, or coming out of the country, as going back into that city where God's testimony is. Emmaus, I suppose, would have been a comfortable place compared with Jerusalem; but the manifestation of Christ set the two in movement back to the city, not for its own sake, for the country is safer for young people than the city as a place of the concentration of evil; but if God has something in the city, as He had at that time in Jerusalem, that is the place to go to.

S.B.F. It says of the Levites that they dwelt in the cities.

J.T. That was part of their inheritance, viewed from the standpoint of Hebrews 11. They had

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forty-eight cities ordered for them by God as their inheritance; and also the sacrifices formed part of their inheritance. They were able to maintain their heavenly calling in that way; they had no part in what was of the earth in that sense.

J.H.B. You referred to Exodus 2 in connection with the name given when Moses' son was born -- Gershom -- how he said, "I have been a sojourner in a foreign land". In saying that, would he include the period which he spent in Egypt?

J.T. I think that he alludes to Midian. I should not think, however, that he regarded Egypt as his land; but Israel was then there; it was still the time, as you might say, of forgetfulness. Joseph began the history in Egypt by calling the first of his sons, 'forgetfulness', forgetting the natural; then there was fruitfulness notwithstanding. I should think Moses would be on that line yet. That is, it is the position of Christ among the gentiles today, where He is not at all linked up with His "father's house" naturally. Israel; that is forgotten -- a very touching thing for us. Joseph said that God had made him to forget his father's house, involving an actual change of state in the man -- a remarkable thing; and there is fruitfulness in that position of forgetfulness. That is our position. We are forgetful in the light of Christ; and the history of Ephraim would show that fruitfulness has the first place with God. Moses would be on that line: that was the place of forgetfulness, although the promises would come into his mind. He was brought up in Egypt in Pharaoh's house, being called an Egyptian by Jethro's daughters, for the world knows us not. It was a complex state in Moses -- as in every one of us -- because he had some light as to the calling, and the promises made to the fathers.

J.H.B. I was thinking of the fact that he said, "I have been a sojourner", not exactly 'I am'.

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J.T. That had been his experience; it is an experience we need to cultivate.

J.H.B. I was thinking that he had come to identify himself fully with the people of God as a chosen people. He would take a spiritual retrospect of his time in Egypt, and instead of glorying in it, as a man would naturally, because of what had attached to him in Pharaoh's court, he views it as only a place of sojourning and strangership. He would no longer glory in anything connected with the circumstances in which he had been, but would be as much in his mind a stranger in thinking of it as the children of Israel.

J.T. You could by extension bring all that into it. What does he say in Midian in Exodus 2? "I have been a sojourner in a foreign land". That would undoubtedly mean that Midian was not his own land -- immediately, anyway. He had never been in any other but Egypt as far as facts go; so whether he regarded Egypt as foreign is a question; so long as Israel was there, it was still the time of the 400 years of Genesis 15; it includes the whole period from Abraham down to the exodus. It was always that. Even Abraham himself was a stranger in all that. So by extension it is so: strangership attaches to the whole position. But Joseph's exercise is different; it modifies that because he is going to forget in Egypt his father's house. We get in him the history of Christ as at the present time. He is forgetful of his father's house; yet there is fruitfulness. So the gentiles would be fruit for Christ in His forgetfulness. Joseph does not call it a foreign land. Typically the gentile world is Christ's now. We read in Genesis 41, in connection with the naming of Manasseh, "For God has made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house"; and then, as to Ephraim, "For God has caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction". It is not strangership with him, but

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forgetfulness of what is natural, and fruitfulness in that forgetfulness. Moses' realisation of strangership was in Midian.

W.M. Does the name he gives his second son suggest the gain he got from strangership; firstly, in the knowledge of God, and, secondly, in salvation from the world power?

J.T. Quite so: "The God of my father has been my help"; and he comes back to the thought of his deliverance from Egypt when the second son is born. The first son only is mentioned in Exodus 2, but the second son here is regarded as symbolising God: the word 'Eliezer' means 'El is my help', and he says, "The God of my father has been my help, and has delivered me from the sword of Pharaoh". So that there are the two things, the one in Joseph is forgetfulness: God does that; He enables one's state to be changed, and one's outlook, and then in that forgetfulness there is fruitfulness. And Moses has in strangership the realisation of divine help, God effecting deliverance from Egypt. Egypt had now become adverse; at least it was so in Pharaoh before Moses left it. But the present bearing of it all is the acceptance of strangership; it involves the support of God, and deliverance from the moral elements in the world. There are the creative conditions that are good in themselves. God gives us all things richly to enjoy, that applies to these country places in measure. But then there are moral elements. Heaven delivers us from the natural, the merely good things of earth; but the moral thing is what we need to be delivered from particularly; and Moses says, God is my help for that! "... And has delivered me from the sword of Pharaoh".

B.F. What particularly have you in mind as to the sword of Pharaoh, and as to what is moral?

J.T. I was linking up the whole system of Egypt with it. In Exodus it was a question of God's power.

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Moses specifies "the sword" which would be Pharaoh's vengeance on himself, if he could execute it.

F.I. So being linked up with the moral side, in connection with what the world takes on, really means in relation to us death from the point of view of what is spiritual?

J.T. Yes; God has made the country wonderfully; it is for His pleasure, and in due time it will come into it in a way as part of the general inheritance, as Canaan was to be for Abraham, but the acceptance of it now tends to death.

Ques. You used the expression 'injecting it into his family'; is that a challenge to us particularly as having children growing up?

J.T. I think it is, because Egypt is a starting-point of family deliverance. The word was, "And delivered our houses", Exodus 12:27. Moses had that in mind undoubtedly in naming his sons. The faith of the father would permeate the family in these two names. You would not go to the world to borrow names. The distinction of the children would be in carrying the idea of the father's faith. Of course the names distinguish them; names are arbitrary now.

Rem. So that if we have taken up strangership for ourselves, it would be a challenge to us as to whether we are prepared to maintain it with regard to our children.

J.T. Every time Moses looked on Gershom, he would be reminded of his early days, of what feelings he had, say, in Midian. He was alone there having fled from the face of Pharaoh; he sat by the well, and these women came to have their flocks watered. We can all understand how strangership would be in his soul. His brethren were not there. There is never much said of Zipporah: Moses is perfectly subservient to Jethro, but there is never much intimated as to affection between him and Jethro, or even between him and Zipporah. It is all a state of

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things that is not final, a tentative state of things. And Moses would always hanker for the full thought of the divine family; so that when he had sons born to him, they, of course, are that; they would have their father stamped upon them. So when they were going out of Egypt -- if we take Egypt to be a place of strangership, they would be intelligent and feeling in what they were doing. It is well to have children intelligent, 'What does my name mean, father?' would be a good question for the children to ask. Moses would say, That name means 'strangership'.

Ques. Would it be sustained by dwelling in tents, as we read in Hebrews 11?

J.T. Exactly; in that connection Abraham dwelt in tents with Isaac and Jacob. It is significant that it does not say a word about Esau, because he was a field man, a cricket man, a tennis man; he did not enter into this. He would view Isaac and Jacob from that standpoint.

S.B.F. Moses had God's promises to the fathers; in that connection he went to look on his brethren. His heart was somewhat linked up with the brethren.

J.T. Quite so; that is what we are told about him. It is wonderful the way the Spirit of God clothes his movement as accepting reproach; it was the reproach of Christ as well because the reproach of Christ would be the reproach under which his brethren were at that time. They were slaves; they were looked down on in Egypt.

A.H. It would appear that Moses' two sons went back with Zipporah to Midian and remained there. They did not have the experience of going out of Egypt with the children of Israel.

J.T. In Exodus 18 we see Zipporah and her two sons, and her father too, coming in favourably, as moving now toward the people of God. They had not passed through the Red Sea; they had not had Egyptian experience at all; that is another matter.

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This refers to the work of God by itself, for the work of God in you as you leave the world is regarded by itself. These four persons were an addition to the camp here. They did not come through the Red Sea, but they were a positive addition.

H.E.F. You mean by that, I judge, that we can take account of the work of God in us from that standpoint.

J.T. Quite so; that leads up to the marital position of the assembly viewed as Eve.

H.E.F. You mean it is the light of it coming into our souls at that point?

J.T. Quite so; because typically the Spirit had come in in the previous chapter through the smiting of the rock, meaning that the Spirit came in through the sufferings of Christ, and has eternity in view. With the Spirit comes Joshua for the first time, a most interesting thing, for Joshua represents Christ in view of eternity, involving a most spiritual standpoint.

H.E.F. Then this is the beginning of what you have spoken so much of as the marital thought?

J.T. Yes, and as linked on with the final thought.

H.E.F. So it comes in early in the history, but is not developed yet?

J.T. Quite so, because the covenant was not yet formally set up. The marital thought is there, but alongside of it, and preceding it from chapter 17, is Joshua. Joshua runs through, entering into Canaan, representing Christ viewed wholly from the spiritual standpoint.

H.E.F. So, while that thought might come into our minds early in our seasons together, it is not perhaps definitely followed out at that point.

J.T. You say, 'perhaps'; you mean it may not be, but it may be, too. As types, Zipporah and the two sons go through Jordan, but there is no water in Jordan when Israel goes through.

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H.E.F. What I meant is that we do not exclusively follow that thought up; other things come in, too.

J.T. Yes, indeed; and, of course, the marital thought covers much more than Zipporah here, as Moses' wife. What you bring in is well to notice. We have the beginning of the eternal state of things. Moses does not represent that, and all Jethro contributed did not represent that, because he was helping Moses from the standpoint of government. But Joshua and the family, these two boys, represent spiritual experience that would abide.

H.E.F. So you bring in the two thoughts, the two boys and Joshua.

J.T. That is right, and, of course. Jethro himself has a place here. He is remarkable. It is a source of a great river which branches out. The side of authority is seen in Moses and Jethro recognises it; the wifely thought is set forth in Zipporah, and the family thought in the two sons. These go through, the wifely thought and the family thought. Joshua represents the spiritual element governing all that which will gradually increase.

W.C.C. In that connection, would you have Rahab too?

J.T. She comes in, but she does not go through Jordan even. It is the work of God again, on a higher plane. The testimony is cumulative; we have to watch all these elements coming in as threads in the whole fibre. Some disappear, for Moses does not go into the land; but others do, especially Joshua, because he represents Christ viewed spiritually, not authoritatively.

Now, coming to Isaiah, we have persons who accept their strangership: "the son of the alien, that hath joined himself to Jehovah", and then the eunuch who says he is a dry tree, but there are the modifying allusions which fortify them in the new place, "The eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and

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choose the things that please me, and hold fast to my covenant, even unto them will I give in my house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. Also the sons of the alien, that join themselves to Jehovah, to minister unto him and to love the name of Jehovah, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from profaning it, and holdeth fast to my covenant; even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt-offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar: for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all the peoples". Isaiah 56:4 - 7. That is wonderful for us! The son of the alien and the eunuch are both under limitations outwardly and publicly; but they are brought into God's house, and the sons of the alien that keep the sabbaths, and hold fast to the covenant, are brought to the holy mountain as well. That is an abiding thing.

Rem. This would be a particular encouragement to young people who have the experience of seeing much of what they would naturally look for dried up.

J.T. That is the way young people speak if they are unspiritual. What are we getting out of all this? We want to go into the world a bit!, and that sort of thing. This chapter is for them.

F.I. So keeping the sabbaths, and holding fast to the covenant is not the end; it is in being brought to the holy mountain.

J.T. That is the thought, which is an abiding one, alluding, I suppose, to Exodus 15:17, "Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance".

H.E.F. Would you say a word as to keeping the sabbaths and holding fast to my covenant, as leading on to the holy mountain?

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J.T. I think the sabbath is mentioned for the first time formally in Exodus 16. Of course, it is mentioned indirectly in Genesis 2but for the believer it comes first in Exodus. We are brought into it. It is first mentioned in relation to Christ as the manna, and it is stressed later in view of the material for the house, and with a view to what is introduced in those chapters following Exodus 25. It would mean one is able to rest in faith in a spiritual environment. Naturally I would like the world; I would like to absorb from the world, and keep in touch with all that is current in the world. People sit down in the evenings, and spend their time with the paper, the novel, the histories: they absorb all these things. They absorb the world, and become formed in that, I think keeping the sabbath would mean that I would absorb God's world. It becomes part of me.

H.E.F. You are restful in another system.

J.T. It would mean that I read the Scriptures, pray, meditate, get to the meetings, of course; but especially that in quietness and restfulness of spirit I absorb all the wonderful things God has brought in in Christ. The pattern shown on the mount is all in relation to that. The keeping of the sabbath is greatly stressed in this part of Exodus.

H.E.F. I am greatly interested in that reference to keeping the sabbath preceding the bringing of the materials for the tabernacle, as though bringing the materials would be dependent on our being restful in that system.

J.T. Quite so. You absorb.

H.E.F. So you have not only got the thing objectively, but the thing is formed in your soul.

J.T. Quite so: you take it on.

F.W.W. Does Moses coming to the mount of God suggest that?

J.T. Israel encamped there, too, it is divine provision, a place of divine resources. You take them in.

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H.E.F. What about holding fast "my covenant"?

J.T. For us, that is the Lord's supper; we come into the thought of covenant. It is an elementary thought, but it is stabilising. You are holding your relations with God firmly in the covenant; it is your side.

E.H.F. Would "choose the things that please me" be on the line of waiting for a city?

J.T. What am I going to choose? It is a question of refusing, and choosing, Moses being the great leader.

F.G.B. Does that come out in Abraham sitting at his tent door in the heat of the day, perhaps the most testing time of the day? Was he absorbing in the right sense, looking for a city?

J.T. He was not taking a siesta; he does not go and lie down and have a sleep, not that that is wrong for an old person, but Abraham as denying himself gets the benefit. What happens? Three persons came to him. One being Jehovah: and they waited for him to absorb what was there, you might say; they sat and waited under a tree, while he prepared for them. What history was being made by Abraham at that time!

F.G.B. I was wondering whether fasting comes in with regard to what is natural in the way of sleep.

J.T. It is brought in to show he might have been doing that, and he was denying himself; it is the principle of fasting.

A.L.V. We are told just previous to that, that Abraham circumcised his household the selfsame day.

J.T. That is right! he was making history. No chapters present the history of Abraham more than those chapters, the matter of circumcision, and then his being wide awake at his tent door.

A.H. In Isaiah 56, what emphasis there is on the word 'My'!

J.T. What is for God is honoured.

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H.E.F. In the Supper, we see how divine Persons have committed Themselves to the matter, and the holding fast to "my covenant" would be that we thoroughly commit ourselves to them.

J.T. That is the idea. You are at the Lord's supper as the expression of love to Christ. We might regard what we get here as suggesting the principle of covenant. There is the thought of the principle of covenant in the Scriptures, apart from the new covenant which has its own force. But the principle of covenant runs right through Scripture, and enters into christianity. You get the principle of covenant in Romans, because you commit yourself in baptism; and in Corinthians, you commit yourself in the Lord's supper.

H.E.F. As putting forth my hand to the loaf, and as putting forth my hand to the cup, I commit myself.

Rem. Like the lame man holding Peter and John?

J.T. That is the principle.

H.E.F. What you say as to the difference between the principle of covenant and the new covenant literally is very helpful.

J.T. The principle of covenant really begins in Eden. Adam transgressed it, but it was there. Israel transgressed it, like Adam (Hosea 6:7). Adam's blessing depended on his remaining in it, holding fast to it, but he did not remain. In fact, the principle of covenant goes back to the physical creation.

W.C.P. It is what God provides?

J.T. And it is that in which He looks for our affections to be active. What are we if we are not moral beings with affections in activity?

H.E.F. Would you say the terms of the covenant are varied, that they are not always the same?

J.T. On God's side there is no change. It is the very best God can be to you, and propose to you, and commit Himself to with regard to you. But then

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He wants you to come into it. What value can it be if you do not? That is the point here -- those who hold fast: what you get if you are brought to this holy mountain!

J.H.B. Is it a question here of persons who are at great disadvantage compared with others? If we take up the position at all, of being those who desire to do the will of God, we are relatively at a great disadvantage; but as we go in for those things that please God, we find He will give us what is far better than what we might have naturally, or positionally.

J.T. Very good, "The things that please me" -- reconciliation underlies that. Your instincts move in that direction. You are steady in what pleases God. You ask, Does this please God?

J.H.B. So we do not get discouraged because we are at some disadvantage compared with others, but we follow the example of these eunuchs, or aliens, and find we can get something better than the best we could have on natural lines.

J.T. I believe from the outset and at every stage of the believer's life, the thought of being under limitations attaches to him. He thinks he is under limitations as not being spiritual; he is at a disadvantage if he goes to school, or to business; right along to the end of his life everything is against him, at least in measure from the natural point of view; but if he goes through with God (one can speak of it with the utmost confidence from one's own experience) he is better off in every way as choosing what pleases God. If you are a salesman, He will help you to make a sale; if you are a student, He will help you to study. If you are married, He will support you in your married life. There is not a thing that He cannot come down to in relation to our natural lives to make us prosper.

F.W.W. Is it on the line of forsaking father and mother, and so on? Compensation comes in.

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J.T. That is more material compensation; but in all things godliness is profitable for everything. No one really loses who brings God into his affairs; whether it be school, or business, or married life, God is with him, so that he cannot suffer. But here it is a spiritual result, a name better than of sons and daughters, for "the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths". "Also the sons of the alien, that join themselves to Jehovah ... even them will I bring to my holy mountain", and so on. "My holy mountain" refers to what is stable and abiding; He brings them to his house too, which is a provisional state of things while we are down here, but in it we get joy; we are made glad in it. We are burdened in regard to our prayer meetings, of course, but God makes us glad in them. That is the only meeting, as far as I know, of which God speaks in that way, the Monday night meeting. Many stay away because it is Monday; they say, We come out all the rest of the week. But if they, especially sisters, leave out the meeting for prayer, they miss this gladness which God provides.

E.H.F. All this, I suppose, would be God-ward. Does God bring in the thought of fellowship in verse 8, in contrast to strangership? "Yet will I gather others to him, with those of his that are gathered".

J.T. There again we meet it; we are limited; we do not get many converts, but here is a further promise, "The Lord Jehovah, who gathereth the outcasts of Israel, saith: Yet will I gather others to him, with those of his that are gathered".

H.F.S. Is the thought continued in the son of the stranger? You were mentioning earlier that the names Moses gave to his sons denoted the exercises and spiritual decision he had come to; would the name given by the Lord to those who chose the things that please Him indicate the thoughts of love and purposes of love which are in the heart of the Lord?

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J.T. He receives an eternal portion. God brings out to us what His thoughts are, continued in a scene where there is nothing seen outwardly: "An everlasting name", which is better than any name of great men, filling the world with their glory just for a few days or years. This is an everlasting name; one's distinction goes into eternity.

B.W. Would the burnt-offerings and sacrifices suggest spiritual wealth? In all these circumstances you would be gaining spiritual wealth.

J.T. You could not offer them if you did not have them. It suggests that though under great limitations, you can carry on the service of God, and He will accept it. God is helping us greatly on these lines. Think of these great cathedrals and churches which require such paraphernalia for the service of God! Is God accepting them? What good are they even? God would say to some of them, The cattle upon a thousand hills are mine, and, "I do not know you". But here are people who are accepted; "Their burnt-offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar", meaning, you are thoroughly in accord with God's system of things; you are following right principles -- "Mine altar", and "my house".

W.M. What is suggested in, "A place and a name better than of sons and daughters"?

J.T. It is over against the thought of families here, that is for the eunuchs. That is not fruitfulness as man would regard fruitfulness. God is giving them something better than that.

W.F.M. You mean, "sons and daughters" refer to unfruitfulness on natural lines.

J.T. Joseph had fruitfulness otherwise, because he would forget his father's house.

J.H.B. Is it something like the overcomer in Philadelphia being made "a pillar in the temple of my God"?

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J.T. That is the thought, "the temple of my God".

W.M. He refers to "my new name" being written on him.

J.T. The name is like the name here.

W.M. Like the everlasting name.

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HOSPITALITY LEADING TO ENLARGEMENT

2 Kings 4:8 - 38

J.T. This is a chapter of spiritual enlargement which the Lord may use to help us at this time. This woman, as many will know, carries forward the figure of the previous type, that is the widow who was unable to meet her creditors, but by the light furnished her she was able to do so and to live on the rest. She lives spiritually. The Shunammite would be a continuation of this woman. She lives. It says she was a wealthy woman, a woman of great spiritual means. But what strikes the mind is the effect of the light shining through Elisha as compared with ourselves. The light comes constantly to us and as we move in it, we become enlarged and able to fulfil our obligations in every way, among others in the exercise of hospitality. God greatly honours this feature amongst His people, and in the case of this woman, she constrained Elisha that he should eat bread. Her hospitality went just so far, to eat bread, and so it was that as oft as he passed by, he turned in thither to eat bread. He did not go beyond the hospitality offered. The social side was omitted by her and omitted by him; it was just to eat bread. Then she says to her husband, "Behold now, I perceive that this is a holy man of God, who passes by us continually. Let us make, I pray thee, a small upper chamber with walls, and let us set for him there a bed, and a table, and a seat, and a lampstand; and it shall be when he cometh to us, he shall turn in thither. And it came to pass on a day, that he came thither, and he turned into the upper chamber, and lay there". In the exercise of hospitality, she avoided the social side. The mere social side should not enter into our hospitality. The prophet only

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availed himself of what was in her mind, first to eat bread and then to use the chamber she prepared for him.

F.I. Would you say that the provision of the chamber was the outcome of what she saw in the prophet, eschewing the social side?

J.T. That is what I thought. He did not go beyond what she constrained him to do. She provided what was needed to sustain his life and she perceived he was a holy man of God, not only a man of God. He was safe to be in her house, so she prepared this chamber; still avoiding the social side. She does not invite him to be one of the family, but to be in isolation. That was in keeping with what she perceived him to be. She prepared nothing to gratify the mere social side, which is often damaging.

A.H. Is there remarkable spiritual alertness with her? It is on a day; she does not miss him that day.

J.T. Quite so, and then she noticed him every day when he passed by. He passed by continually, it says; she evidently noticed him all the time and perceived he was a holy man of God. He was not idle, not a man who would put himself on the brethren; he just accepted what was offered. He was constrained to do so, and then she perceived what he was, seeing him pass by, she prepared this chamber. She called her husband into it. The suggestion is that everything is healthy and seemly and holy and in keeping with the testimony.

F.I. I thought what you said in relation to her discerning the prophet was shown in that the chamber that was built was with walls to provide the prophet with what was consistent with his movements. Shutting out the social side.

J.T. Yes. Windows are not stressed. I suppose the idea would be seclusion rather than occupation with the outer world, like Eutychus.

A.H. It was an upper chamber, is that significant?

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J.T. That would suggest moral elevation, I suppose.

A.H. Do you see any similitude between the features of this woman and those of Abraham who sat in his tent door?

J.T. Yes, I think so. He saw what was going on, he saw three men coming to him. Here this woman has eyes for what is in relation to God. She is not observing the dresses of the women who pass by, or of the men, but she perceives this one is a holy man of God. She represents a person of spiritual discernment. She has eyes for the testimony and what belongs to the testimony and moves with it. She omits all the social features.

A.H.H. Sensibilities of this sort would have their compensations.

J.T. That is what we get in the chapter, I thought we might see how the enlargement comes. Here first this great woman perceives this man and considers for him that he must be sustained. The widow of Zarephath, to whom Elijah was sent, did not have means. She was opposite to this woman. She was not great in that sense and yet she is used of God, showing that a person of small measure may be designated by God to serve in the testimony, so let no one plead his poverty in this matter. Jehovah said to Elijah, "I have commanded a widow woman there to maintain thee"; she was by no means a person of means outwardly, but He commanded her to do this, and when the prophet arrives he meets her, as if God would put her in his way at once. This indicates that if we are at all disposed to have part in the testimony we are never to plead our poverty, for God can use a person who is poor. He takes up unlikely persons to set out what He can do. We are not told how He commanded this woman, but when Elijah came and met her, she was gathering sticks that she might make a little cake and eat it and die.

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You may say, Not a likely person to maintain the testimony, but let no one think he is not a likely person because he is not rich. God may wish to show He can get along without the rich. So the prophet says to her, "Make me thereof a little cake first". The point is to consider for God in whatever little you have. A handful of meal and a little oil in a cruse, you have that anyway. Think on what you have. There must have been something put on her mind by God because He told the prophet He had commanded her. The point is to be available to God and not plead our poverty. How are you keeping the little? Are you keeping it carefully? The meal was in the barrel and the oil in the cruse. The next thing is to make the little cake 'for me first', which links with the idea of the assembly, because a little cake is a whole thought. It is small, but it is whole. She had to maintain him there a year. She and her house and the prophet were cared for for a whole year. Now this woman is different; she has plenty and the prophet does not ask for anything; there is no burden put on her. The question is whether she is ready to find out the need, and she does. The prophet comes and she says, 'Come in and eat bread', which he does, and then he passes by. He is not a lazy man. No servant of God should put himself on the saints and stay with them too long. But he goes and comes. What is he doing? He is working the Lord's work, and she sees this, and she brings her husband into it; as much as to say, This man is perfectly safe to be in the house. It is not a question of making him one of the family, or making him a guest room. What is suitable to him? She is tested as to what she is herself, and she has spiritual discernment. The moving about of the testimony, or those whom God uses in it, is to bring out what we all are. God loves to bring out what is latent in us.

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Ques. Why are these things represented on the feminine side?

J.T. Because it is a question, I think, of the work of God in us. That is not on the surface.

Sisters cannot speak in the meetings and brethren get disheartened because they cannot speak well, but this is a question of what comes out as opportunity affords.

A.H. So the husband does not seem to shine very well just here.

J.T. No, not right through, so as to bring out into relief the subjective state. God loves to bring that out.

F.I. The continual passing in and out amongst us of those who serve, becomes a test to us in relation to the truth.

J.T. That is what I had in mind. We have to learn not to attach anything to a brother because he has natural qualities. Some have great ability with the social side, but that is to be avoided. She makes no provision whatever for it. There is no need for it. There are the essentials. He wants sustenance and a room like this, no piano or anything like that. All the essentials, and only just what is essential.

E.B. Would it not be a mark of her spirituality, as she is a wealthy woman, to suggest to her husband a small upper chamber? Would it distinguish her as being spiritual?

J.T. I think so, there was nothing showy about it. She brings her husband into it, which is very seemly. He cannot be left out, however poor he may be; he is her husband.

E.W. Would the principle of headship be here?

J.T. That is what comes in. She is not an independent person. She is a great woman, but not moving independently of her husband. She brings him into it.

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Rem. It would have been a denial of her spirituality.

J.T. If she did not bring him in, quite so. He was old, it says, probably older than she was, but she brings him into it. The husband must have his place.

H.Y. In pressing the social side, do you feel that this is not good for the prosperity of the saints?

J.T. Yes. One is speaking of the spirit of things. It often is made everything in house parties and the like. This woman is not on that line. She perceived the man is a holy man of God, and a holy man of God wants just essentials.

H.Y. Do you think there is a danger of our being on that line?

J.T. There is, particularly with young people. Not that one would say too much, because we need to be considerate, but it is well to have the right thing in mind.

F.I. It is a great thing to be able to supply bread, to have that which is sufficient to meet the need of one who serves, and for him at the same time to be able to accept it.

J.T. Just so. We can see that Elisha makes no move beyond what is offered to him. When it is bread, he comes in every day and eats it, and then with this room, he uses it. He takes no liberties at all.

H.L. Why is it there is such a long time before the prophet speaks to the woman? He speaks through Gehazi.

J.T. I think the thought here is that the servant of the Lord should be maintained in a proper attitude of spiritual dignity and not be commonplace. We are speaking now in the spirit of things and not in the letter. If we make them apply to the letter, we shall make ourselves legal, but a servant of the Lord, according to what Paul says, is to maintain spiritual dignity, but he is ready to deal personally when needed. He called her, in verse 15, and she stood in the doorway. He spoke directly to her.

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Gehazi was not much, anyway. Think of him asking a woman like this if she wished to be spoken for to the king. How incongruous this was! Gehazi was exposed.

H.L. Gehazi finished up by standing in the presence of the king.

J.T. Then he is rebuffed again, but that is the kind of man he is.

A.H. Does this woman represent one who enters into things and has not herself before her?

J.T. I have no doubt. She is a great woman spiritually. I believe she is a woman of Romans 8 -- "If ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live". She is living; the previous incident, in type, speaks of one living on the rest.

W.L. Why do you get the three features, the table, the seat and the lampstand?

J.T. The table would be to write on, or maybe to eat on. They are just the barest essentials of life and comfort; that is all. We must not be legal and say this is what we should have, because God gives us all things richly to enjoy, but if there is anything beyond that, you are not living in it. You are living somewhere else. Your life is elsewhere.

J.M. In principle are the saints to her the excellent of the earth? "I dwell among mine own people".

J.T. That is the next thing. Gehazi is exposed. He is occupied with the king and the captain of the host. This would appeal to any woman of means, as she was, if she were worldly, but she is not worldly. She is occupied with the testimony, she is occupied with the holy man of God. Not that God calls him that, she calls him that. The next thing is that she has got a son, that is, her affections are enlarged. She is merging into a Colossian saint. Christ is in her. In Romans the body is dead on account of sin and the Spirit is life on account of righteousness, but in Colossians Christ is in us the hope of glory; and

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this son, I think, is the thought of Christ, in a small way, yet the suggestion of a son.

A.H. Is that the idea of fruitfulness?

J.T. Well, it is that, spiritual enlargement, but it is a son. It is a suggestion of Christ in a moral way in us developed as the hope of glory. Then there is the sorrow and further exercise of having not only a living Christ, here after the flesh, but a risen Christ, and that is what she has. She took up her son and went out. She is well off. She has Christ risen in type. All is well. He is the hope of glory.

A.H. Is your suggestion then that Romans 8 is the wealthy person and, as making use of this, we pass on to Colossians?

J.T. Yes. This type leads right on, reaching Ephesians. You will have noticed that the man from Baal-shalishah in verse 42 is a man from another land altogether and he has the fruit of that land, barley and fresh ears of corn, in his sack. That is a wonderful type of what we are speaking of, this element of hospitality and how it develops into enlargement. If we take up little things we develop into big things and God respects us. She did not ask for the son; it was from God's side. Gehazi is rebuffed. Still he had the right thought at the bottom. He said she had no son, and that is what gave rise to this, so that the prophet spoke directly to her.

P.P. Would the house of Stephanas be a house where hospitality was seen? There was something there that was lacking amongst the saints.

J.T. No doubt there was. You mean at Corinth. One would think there was a great lack of hospitality there -- not because they could not entertain, but because of partisan feeling, that is, you invite persons whom you like, your own set. That is what they were doing, and they carried it into the assembly, including one and excluding others because they do not belong to their party. In Colossians we have the

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statement, "Love ... towards all the saints". That is, you do not discriminate.

A.H.H. It seems that, although she was wealthy, she was hardly ready for the suggestion of a son.

J.T. Well, she is hardly ready, but yet God honours us if we are faithful in little. If we are faithful in little, we shall be faithful in much.

F.I. She gives a good example of hospitality, because what she did would not accrue to herself. When we take on hospitality we often have ourselves in view, what will accrue to us. In supplying bread and building a chamber, there is nothing that would accrue to her.

J.T. Quite so. There is no thought of her having invited people to meet the prophet.

F.I. I thought there is to be a good deal of discretion used. We have to be careful how far we go with these things.

J.T. Yes, you have to consider whether you are doing it for yourself, whether it is an occasion for a show. I find these occasions in the afternoons before meetings and after the meetings sometimes, although they are taxing, are very profitable all over the country. The truth comes out in an informal way: brothers and sisters can say things, and I find they are very profitable, but then there is the danger of making a show of the occasion as in the world when they have a party or dinner or the like -- a family affair in that sense. She does not bring in anything of that at all. There is no suggestion of her inviting anybody to meet the prophet. He has a little room, that is all. He is the theme of the whole chapter; as he moves everything is brought to light. The man who brought the wild colocynths is exposed. The man of God exposes everybody as he moves about. Light radiates from him.

Then there is this matter of the boy when he is out with the reapers. It would seem as if the father was

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remiss. We are dealing with the subjective side. The thought of the father is the idea of authority, whether in the house or in the meeting, but he seems here to be remiss. It says, "The child grew, and it came to pass one day, that he went out to his father to the reapers. And he said to his father, My head, my head! And he said to the servant, Carry him to his mother ... and he sat on her knees till noon, and died", so that both father and mother failed. The father does not do anything. Later on when the prophet comes back to the house it says, "He went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands, and bent over him; and the flesh of the child grew warm. And he returned, and walked in the house to and fro"; he is coming out of his room now. Well! this boy -- what happened to him? It is a head matter with the boy. Of course fathers and mothers make much of schools and the books the children read, and it seems to me that Elisha walking to and fro might suggest looking around to see what books are there. He would look in the bookcases, and maybe in the shelves which were not so conspicuous. What has happened to the boy? What has caused his death spiritually? As he began to get warm it came to the prophet and he went up and down in the house. Surely there must be some reason for this in the house. Are there any things lying around which would be likely to damage the child? What do you think?

F.I. I can see what you are after. The woman and her husband had right thoughts as to what was due to the prophet, but there may have been in the house that which would be the cause of the effect on the lad's head. When we have a servant of the Lord in the house we encircle him with things he can look at so that he does not move around and find that which might cause headiness.

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J.T. Yes, that is the thought. If there are godly men in the house things are often put out of sight.

E.H. Have we something similar to this in the Lord going into Jairus' house, in what He had to turn out?

J.T. That is the same thing. There were flute players making a noise. There was weeping, too. It was all natural. The Lord is said to walk in the midst of the candlesticks. Why? To see what there is, and He speaks of what there is. And in verse 35 it says the prophet walked in the house to and fro. He went up and bent over him, as if to say, Is there anything here that has caused this boy's death? If there is, it will cause somebody else's death as well. Is it not a warning to us as to what we have in our houses if we have children?

E.W. Why could not Gehazi use the prophet's staff?

J.T. He could not use it; it was of no value. Of course Elisha failed a little, because I think he attaches too much to his experience and an elder brother is liable to do that.

W.L. He is quickly recovered.

J.T. He is. A man of God would always recover himself quickly. He humbles himself and looks around for the other causes.

A.H.H. Do you think it is possible that, whilst we may present what is suitable for the man of God, we might have something different in our minds in regard to our families?

J.T. Something different, something perhaps that we know well enough the man of God would not appreciate -- that is what is in mind here.

A.H.H. Do you think that the furniture of the upper room should be the furniture of the rest of the house?

J.T. The house would be in keeping with it.

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W.L. We read in Zechariah that the eyes of the Lord are running to and fro.

J.T. That is right. Now he goes back and bends over the boy. The lad sneezed seven times and opened his eyes. What a wonderful experience for this boy. He sneezed seven times, that meant that the lungs were right and there was the power of life there in a real way; it is not the head now. The lungs are right and life is operating.

E.H. Is there a suggestion in this incident of some of us who may have gone out into service too soon, and found it was a question of our heads? He went out with the reapers. Is there something of that in it?

J.T. Yes, I suppose there is something in that, instead of going with the sowers. If we want to be it the service we should begin by sowing. This question of sowing seed introduces the thought that I have some conception of Christ of my own. It belongs to me and I can present it to others. Reaping is what other men sow. You can go a long way on this line, but if it is a question of bringing out a fresh conception of Christ, that is the seed to sow; you are tested.

A.H. Is it noteworthy that this holy man of God had known what is was to plough?

J.T. He was a ploughman. He was the twelfth, content to be last; he was not a forward man. That is the idea, to turn up the ground and put seed into it instead of working on what other men have done.

F.I. We have perhaps got heady. We might have gone reaping where others have previously sown and have taken it to ourselves and had to cry out, My head, my head! Many a young brother has taken on that which does not attach to him. The work has perhaps been done over a period of years, and he might just add a little to it and claim it for himself.

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J.T. One has seen it frequently. The head carries us a long way in natural ability and putting energy into it. If there is no reality we have to come back and begin at the bottom.

E.H. The sneezing was more himself than being with the reapers?

J.T. I am sure. He is referred to now as a lad twice. He is a potential man. The word 'lad' is used, and not 'child'. He is developing and now he can sneeze seven times, showing there is inward power.

C.K. Is it going too far to suggest that in figure the lad is brought on to resurrection ground?

J.T. He is, and I think his mother is too. We have to watch as to the types. His resurrection is a suggestion of Christ in the mother. She went out, we are told. He said to Gehazi, "Call this Shunammite. And he called her"; because she is in mind all through, "and she came to him. And he said, Take up thy son. And she came and fell at his feet, and bowed herself to the ground; and she took up her son, and went out". She has no speech to make, like the widow of Zarephath. She made a speech and said, "Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of Jehovah in thy mouth is truth". She said it because of the miracle. He raised up her son, too, but this woman knew he was a man of God before. She is further advanced. She is ready now for this. She worships.

A.H.H. In coming to the man of God she says, "Did I desire a son of my lord?", but now she is ready to take on.

J.T. There is no question like that now. It is said to be well. She had said before, "It is well" as it were abstractly in her soul, but now she is in it and she moves out.

Ques. In regard to the lad, you said that the sneezing would suggest the action of the lungs,

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movement of life. What about the eyes in contrast to the head?

J.T. Well, the eyes are to see, of course. It is not the ears. Ears take in knowledge, eyes see. The Lord says, "Blessed are your eyes". They are open, you can see, they are open on the prophet himself.

A.H. Would you say something about that, his mouth, his eyes, his hands?

J.T. That is the selection of the prophet. He went up and lay upon the child and put his mouth upon his mouth, his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands, and bent over him. The mouth would be what he would say, and also the power of eating. Eyes would be what he would see with, and the hands what he would do, the leading features of a man. I suppose the boy would come out like the prophet. He is identified with his members.

A.H. So that he would speak like the man of God, see like him and serve like him.

J.T. That would be the effect. He is the son of the prophet in that sense, for there is nothing in the child's father of virtue.

F.I. So that the woman receiving back her son really reached the point you have spoken of in Colossians, the hope of glory. That is what she had in view.

J.T. You can see she is ready for it.

C.K. She received him back in figure through death; that is Colossians, is it not?

J.T. Just so. We gentiles have Christ in resurrection, and in heaven too. Paul says, "If even we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we know him thus no longer. So if any one be in Christ, there is a new creation". I believe this chapter reaches on to that.

Ques. What about the intervening incident?

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J.T. Well, that is another view. Colossians is not a very safe place. If you stay there you are liable to bring in the wild colocynths. Colossians is a dangerous position if we are not on the up-line. Colocynths are poisonous. That is what a young man would do who would get up to give an address to make himself conspicuous, something we have not had before. I remember three-day meetings in a place and a brother wrote to me that they had something very new and wonderful, but it was bad, and they thought they had a good time. Because something is different it does not prove it to be safe and useful.

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MATERIAL FOR THE SANCTUARY SECURED BY SUBJECTION

Exodus 12:35, 36; Exodus 25:1 - 9; John 1:14; Revelation 21:2, 3

J.T. These passages have been read that we might look at the suggestions of the tabernacle in them, not to be occupied with it in itself, but to enquire how it is reached by the exercises that precede it as seen in Exodus, that is, the condition of servitude. The first scripture speaks of the Egyptians having been spoiled as Israel left them, and that the Israelites secured from them utensils of silver and utensils of gold, and clothing. This followed their period of servitude which, as Genesis 15 shows, would culminate in their coming out with great property. Jehovah promised Abraham that the nation they should serve He would judge and afterwards they would come out "with great property", Genesis 15:14. The verses in Exodus 12 allude to this property, and how it was secured as preceded by servitude, by slavery, that is, a position of unqualified subjection. It is hoped that we shall see in our enquiry together that this position under the government of God in the world is advantageous to us; whatever our situation may be, we are in the place of subjection. Modern legislation for the past hundred years has sought to ameliorate the position of those who labour, and make it less onerous and more respectable, tending to bring in independency, and with corresponding loss to the saints who take on this spirit of independency. We shall fail in the securing of property in the measure in which subjection is not accepted. One great feature of the book of Exodus is subjection, that is, subjection to God as exercised through the leader, Moses; but before this they had been four hundred years in this position of

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subjection, which was not for nothing, nor by accident, nor merely Egyptian unrighteousness, but was divinely ordered. So that in the New Testament, those in this position are enjoined to remain in it, and as in it, to be in accord with the position, and to respect those over them; God having in mind that although He could change our circumstances at any time, we should come out of them with great property, that is, with material for the sanctuary. Those in the place of subjection are less exposed to the enemy than those who are masters. Masters have more scope for their wills. As to believing masters, as Paul said to Timothy, they are to be served with the more subjection; but those who serve are to "adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things", Titus 2:10. They have the advantage, in that subjection is the principle that governs their whole lives. This enters into the position of wives and children also, and service of all kinds. It will be observed that this is a practical line of thought and leads to the securing of material for the sanctuary, the tabernacle in which God dwells. From chapter 25 onward, the book of Exodus is on that principle; and finally, Moses surveys all the work and all the material, ensuring that it is in accord with this principle before it has place in the tabernacle.

J.A.P. What place has the passover in connection with what you are saying?

J.T. It brings Christ into the position typically. The lamb was to be seized; it was taken, not by its own will, but it was subject. The lamb was to be seized and held in the houses for four days before being slain. That is, Christ is introduced in that way so that He should be known, as in John 1:14 -- "The Word became flesh and dwelt [or tabernacled] among us", that was so that He might be known. All these beautiful traits that go with subjection are fully seen in Christ. Even in the gospel of John where His Person is stressed, His subjection is also stressed.

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The passover would mean that Christ in figure is brought into these circumstances of bondage. Egypt was the sphere of the people's servitude. As they are about to leave Egypt, Christ comes into their circumstances, into their homes; the teaching for us is that we should definitely take on what is seen in Him, and carry that through in all our circumstances. He is the Pattern for us. So, in like manner, after the Red Sea, the waters of Marah were brackish and Israel murmured; but a tree is cut down, and cast into the waters. It is not by its will, it is Christ as subject, and as He is thus apprehended we accept our circumstances, they become sweet. I think that is, in general, what is meant. Of course there are many other thoughts in the passover, but it is striking that it comes in just as they are leaving Egypt, and Christ in figure comes into the houses, so that they might see and know and love Him; and then the lamb is slain on the fourteenth day.

J.A.P. You are not looking at it now as giving God ground for taking them out?

J.T. There is much else in the passover. They were exposed to the judgment of God, as Egypt was, but covered by the blood of the lamb. The introduction of the lamb into their houses is very touching. It is essential to see that subjection was enjoined on Adam; the principle is God's right to rule us; but the four hundred years of servitude is striking as pressing the principle on God's people before taking them out of Egypt. As coming out they have great property. That is God's answer.

H.H. Does the word in Hebrews 13:5 fit in? "Satisfied with your present circumstances; for he has said, I will not leave thee, neither will I forsake thee".

J.T. "Your present circumstances" -- whatever they were. Trades unions do not mean that; they are the reverse of that, saying in effect, 'We are not

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satisfied with our present circumstances'. That enters into all positions of servitude. It is natural to men to resent authority, whether in a husband, or father, or master.

Ques. What do you say in regard to the passover lamb? Would that indicate the way in which God comes in and intervenes in the servitude?

J.T. That is the thought, God coming in at that juncture, not simply with the lamb slain at once, but with the lamb kept four days in the house. Subjection was exemplified in Christ, He "dwelt among us". After a life of exemplary subjection to His Father, experiencing all that is proper to man, He died. Then the unleavened bread is our side of the matter; we keep the feast with that, so that it is with contentment. "Godliness with contentment is great gain". It is thus that we acquire property all the time, and this is available to God in the sanctuary.

A.W.B. Is it in that way that spirituality is built up in our souls?

J.T. The "great property" is seen in detail as we come to Exodus, in the form of utensils, "Utensils of silver, and utensils of gold, and clothing"; that is, I am becoming usable and acceptable in the assembly in the service of God.

Ques. How does the matter of the groaning and cries fit in with this attitude of subjection? It is not inconsistent, is it?

J.T. No, God heard them. God feels our position, He is not indifferent. If we are impatient in it, that is the flesh, but there is rigour and suffering in it, God knows. Christ has been into it and therefore it is acceptable to me. I am gaining spiritual property, I have more advantage than my master in that sense. He has more scope for his will than I have. Scope for will never helps anybody. A man with God who is a master over men will not be rigorous.

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Ques. Do you apply this principle in reference to assembly matters also? The Corinthians were reigning as kings in 1 Corinthians 4, and Paul brings in the passover in chapter 5.

J.T. That is good. They would be the leaders, I should think, but it fits in well with what we are saying. The time for reigning has not come; it is the time for servitude, for subjection; so the apostle transfers the figure to himself and other apostles. Up to that present time they laboured and suffered reproach; they were insulted, they had become the off-scouring of the world, the refuse of all, and he says that God had ordered that it should be that. It is remarkable that that is how the matter stands, and Paul was content in his circumstances.

J.S. Would Psalm 105:24 apply? "He made his people exceeding fruitful, and made them mightier than their oppressors".

J.T. That would allude to the increase of their numbers, which is also to be noted, because it was a thing that Pharaoh abominated, and he therefore destroyed all the males; but they increased nevertheless.

Ques. Would the practical application of the truth of the passover be corrective to us?

J.T. I think so. The lamb in the house four days would be an effective lesson.

Rem. Complaining often prevents us from obtaining spiritual property.

J.T. No one in a complaining spirit is of use in the assembly, and that is why I think the word 'utensil' is used in Exodus, to cover the thought of 'property', but property as being a utensil for the service of God.

Ques. Do you mean the thing had taken shape in the soul, the thought of the utensil?

J.T. You are usable; as one could say, "Here am I, send me". The Lord says of Himself, "I am

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among you as he that serveth", Luke 22:27. I suppose, speaking reverently, He would do anything Himself; Paul would, too. We are not to stand on our dignity, even though we may be distinguished servants. We are to be usable and do whatever is needed.

Ques. Do we see that exemplified in Paul in the Philippian prison?

J.T. Exactly; he was a vessel, a great sufferer, but a vessel, not a complainer. In that position in Acts 16, he and Silas were, so to speak, at the prayer meeting, the praise meeting, the gospel meeting and the Bible reading. They were ready at any time. Even though a man is working hard and feels like lying down at home instead of going to the meeting, he comes to it, and is happier and freer than if he had gone home. That is our experience even though one is tired and suffering.

It is remarkable that we have this idea of vessels three times mentioned in Exodus, and God gave Israel favour in the eyes of the Egyptians which was a very remarkable thing. Egypt was spoiled; people are taken out of it that God can use. The intent was that Israel was to be usable. He is to be a vessel. A professed convert is of no use whatever unless attached to what is living, with the sense of being entirely liberated that God might be served.

Paul and Silas were in liberty for they had four services. They were praying and praising God with singing, then preaching the gospel to the jailor, and then teaching him the word of the Lord. They were enjoying all these services; they were vessels, and the jailor became another. Rome was robbed of that man as representative of cruelty. He is usable now.

T.W. Moses in the land of Midian is another instance of subjection.

J.T. Very strikingly so; he sat by the well. He was a man of words: he could make a good speech, no

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doubt. He is said to have been "mighty in his words and deeds". Now in the land of Midian he is sitting by a well. It is the relinquishing of all that he was in Egypt. That is the principle for every one of us. Moses had gone out to see the slaves before he left Egypt; he was in spirit one of them for he called them his brethren; that is the reproach of Christ.

T.W. He was content in his circumstances.

J.T. It would mean that his circumstances would be greatly altered. He was a man of power and education in this world; he had been a rich man, but now he is content to dwell with a man, the priest of Midian, and is ready to do anything that would further the interests of God. The daughters of Jethro came out to water their sheep and he is ready to do that for them. He is the greatest vessel for divine service, I suppose, in the Old Testament.

I.H.J.L. Does love enter into the principle of servitude?

J.T. That is the principle, of course. When you come to that side in the type, in Exodus 21, the idea is presented in the Hebrew bondman, the slave. He is the model, as Christ has already been, in the houses of the Israelites, not as a slave, but as a lamb with all that a lamb suggests. John says, "Behold the Lamb of God" -- a sacrificial thought. In Exodus 21, however, Christ is again seen in type, but as a slave, as a Hebrew bondman, and He gives an account of Himself, "I love my master, my wife, and my children"; that is the position, it is love serving. God honours that in the priesthood; that is the basis of service, and then the priesthood is dignified. Spiritual dignity is not acquired by birth, or education, or money, but from God.

S.B. Would Onesimus be an example? As returning to Philemon, he becomes profitable.

J.T. Quite so; the apostle suggests tenderly to Philemon that he might relax the work of Onesimus

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because he is a brother beloved. The apostle gives him a status above a slave; but if Onesimus had to serve Philemon, he would do it better than ever before. He would say, "I love my master".

Ques. Does that principle come out strikingly in the captive maid in Naaman's household, in the way she becomes serviceable to the man?

J.T. She is one of the finest examples you can have.

Ques. Have you in mind that this position with us is continuous?

J.T. I think so. Paul says that, we are "legitimately subject to Christ", 1 Corinthians 9:21. It will go into the eternal state of things. The apostle says, "Then the Son also himself shall be placed in subjection to him who put all things in subjection to him, that God may be all in all", 1 Corinthians 15:28. It seems to be a thought that marks the realm of love eternally.

Rem. In this sense we never leave the position here, we are delivered from Egypt, but profit by our circumstances there, in view of the service of God.

J.T. That is the thought, so that everyone, even Paul, is in that position. The Lord led the way in it in John's gospel. I think it is a very practical side of the truth, for all of us who are in service, in subordination under the government of God, and perhaps even more pointed as regards men who are masters, that they should retain the thought that they are in the position of service; the Lord is over them in it. One cannot do as he wills. He does not exercise his will because he is a master.

Ques. Many of the vessels of the sanctuary were of beaten work, would that indicate submission?

J.T. It would allude to discipline, coming especially under the discipline of God.

Rem. The things the people brought were what they acquired in coming out of Egypt.

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J.T. Applying it spiritually, that is what it is. A convert coming out of the world in subjection becomes a useful addition to the assembly. You get examples of that right through the Acts. Take a sister like Lydia. The Lord opened her heart to attend to the things spoken by Paul; she is ready for service; she is baptised and readily opens her house to the servants of God.

Rem. The Lord spoke of Paul as "an elect vessel to me". He proved himself in his subjection.

J.T. He is a striking example of what we are saying. He is formally called a vessel in Acts 9. In Romans 9 all christians are called vessels, "Vessels of mercy ... before prepared for glory". However, in Acts 9 the Lord says, "This man is an elect vessel to me". Before he becomes that in practice he fits into the assembly; he is with the brethren. The Lord says, "Go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do". You see I am to be subject to the Lord, but I must be subject to the brethren, too. Normally a person who is really subject is subject to the brethren too.

Rem. Speaking to the elders of Ephesus in Acts 20, Paul impresses them with that. He speaks of the way he was with them.

J.T. How he served; he went in and out among them. He had been doing that before as a servant of the devil, but now as a servant of Christ.

T.W. He refers in 2 Corinthians 4:5, to himself and others as "your bondmen for Jesus' sake".

J.T. I think that is the order of the position we are in, in subjection, and if we are to be usable it must be in subjection, not only to Christ, "legitimately subject to Christ", but to the brethren. The Lord told Paul in his first interview to "go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do". It is there, I believe, many have failed. We talk of being serviceable to the Lord, but Paul says,

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"Ourselves your servants" -- servants of the saints also. Things come up and we say, 'The Lord knows' and the like, but then we have to recognise the brethren. Of course it is possible the brethren may not be right, but normally they are, and that is what Paul had to learn.

Rem. It would be a greater test to us if the brethren did happen to be wrong as to whether we are prepared to be subject to them.

J.T. If the brethren have a judgment about one, it must be taken account of, and weighed over to see whether it is the Lord's judgment.

Rem. The jailor brought them into his house, and laid the table for them and rejoiced.

J.T. He laid the table, a woman's work, and washed their stripes, and rejoiced with all his house. As regards the material for the tabernacle, all these things we have been speaking of are required, "Gold, and silver, and copper, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and byssus, and goats' hair, and rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins; and acacia-wood; oil for the light; spices for the anointing oil, and for the incense of fragrant drugs; onyx stones, and stones to be set in the ephod, and in the breastplate", Exodus 25:4 - 7. These are all qualities that are worked out in subjection. Israel in Egypt were under Pharaoh and his taskmasters, but they were also under God, through Moses, the Mediator, representative of God. He had a rod: Paul also refers to a rod, the rod of authority by which we are in subjection, not only to our masters after the flesh, but to Christ as representative of God. It is under that that we develop these qualities. How can God dwell among a complaining and critical people? He cannot. It is as coming under the authority of Christ that we become suitable to God.

Ques. Would all these things refer to features seen in Christ?

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J.T. I think He exhibited them all; that had been the divine thought in the Word becoming flesh. He dwelt among us, and then what was seen in Him was "a glory as of an only-begotten with a father, full of grace and truth". Of course that was unique; but still there is the thought of what we are among men, and what we are before God. When they present their offerings we have the further direction as to the sabbath, (chapter 35). "Moses collected all the assembly of the children of Israel, and said to them, These are the things which Jehovah has commanded, to do them. Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you a holy day, a sabbath of rest to Jehovah: whoever does work on it shall be put to death. Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings upon the sabbath day". Then we are told: "Moses spoke to all the assembly of the children of Israel, saying, This is the word which Jehovah has commanded, saying, Take from among you a heave-offering to Jehovah: every one whose heart is willing, let him bring it. Jehovah's heave-offering -- gold, and silver, and copper, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and byssus". It seems to me that that is to be noted as a sort of perfecting thought of subjection, that we know how to keep our sabbaths. We are not a restive people, wanting to be doing something all the time. We want to be active properly, but we want to be restful before God, restful in the new environment so as to absorb what God has provided. It is a finishing thought in us. What is one, unless one can be quiet and restful in the presence of God, and waiting in the assembly? This matter of usability is a very important matter, because it all leads up to the tabernacle.

Ques. Would John 12 suggest the restfulness?

J.T. Exactly; it is what the Lord secured. He came there having this in mind, that the full result of the work should be reached. There is no speaking,

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no activity, except in the case of Martha, which is right; someone must serve, but the great thought is restfulness in dignity.

T.W. In Acts 2:2, they were sitting.

J.T. That is the thought, keeping their sabbath.

Rem. Mary sat at the Lord's feet before she brought the pound of ointment.

J.T. She represents this thought of keeping the sabbath; it was the order of the day -- It had been proclaimed from heaven, "This is my beloved Son: hear him". She was restful in that.

Rem. And able to bring a very rich contribution.

J.T. One of the richest.

Ques. Is that suggested in John 1:14, "We have contemplated his glory"? Is the spirit of contemplation linked with this?

J.T. His dwelling among us is what Christ was actively, it was to be observed. Then others say, "We have contemplated". You take in that.

Ques. Do we reach that point sometimes on a Lord's day morning when partaking of the emblems, a time of restful contemplation of the Lord?

J.T. That is the point in mind, what we are in assembly. The apostle uses that remarkable phrase, "When ye come together in assembly". It is the state we are in which is alluded to; not simply that we are in a given place but in an attitude of mind in it. It is important to hold that attitude of mind there, not being too quick to break the silence. The silence will be broken; someone must be active, but the great thing is to be restful. We come from our houses in dignity as anointed. The Holy Spirit is ready to help us to attain that line.

Ques. Does the heave-offering mean that our affections are brought into it?

J.T. That is right; the moving of the heart is what is meant.

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I.H.J.L. Is it significant that in John 12 the house is filled? I am thinking of your thought of finishing.

J.T. That is good. Some of us had before us lately the filling of certain houses; that is one of them. It was filled with the odour of the ointment. The alabaster box is omitted in John. It is a question of the person herself. She knows how to lie fallow and absorb. What gives land richness among other things, is lying fallow and absorbing. She was in the presence of infinitude there; see what would come into her soul! She listened to what He was saying, whatever it was. There is no suggestion of her asking the Lord anything. He is a better judge of what He should say than I am. Think of absorbing what is infinite! She had part in what is infinite, and therefore had something that the Spirit of God stresses as of great value. The Lord says, "Against the day of my burying hath she kept this". That was a very intelligent action. She gathered up from what He was saying that He was going to die, and she did not wait. She took her opportunity to minister to Him.

In Exodus 35 we first have an injunction to keep the sabbath, and then each item is brought to Moses, and in chapter 39: 42 we are told: "According to all that Jehovah had commanded Moses, so had the children of Israel done all the labour. And Moses saw all the work, and behold, they had done it as Jehovah had commanded -- so had they done it; and Moses blessed them".

A.P.B. Does keeping the sabbath depend on working on the six days before?

J.T. Quite so. Ezekiel calls them the six working days; that is, if we do not work, the sabbath has no force. God worked six days and had rest from His labour. We are brought into that; we lie fallow and at rest, to absorb what is around us. We are in the presence of divine Persons. We are baptised "to

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the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". What a wonderful thing to sit down restfully in the presence of that, to absorb things! The Holy Spirit is offering them to us; there is a balancing and finishing influence proceeding.

Ques. Would Nicodemus be an example when he brought the hundred pounds weight of ointment in John 19?

J.T. Not nearly as valuable as Mary's pound, though. It is bulk with him -- valuable, of course; but there is no idea that he prepared it. When the need was there, he saw the need and procured it; but in Mary's case we have value, intrinsic worth. Not that one would despise Nicodemus, but he is not in the same class as Mary. She anointed a living Christ; he anointed a dead One.

J.A.P. Would you mind explaining that?

J.T. It does not seem that Nicodemus availed himself of the living Christ; he came to Him secretly but Mary availed herself of Him.

Ques. John 12 opens up with the statement, "Six days before the passover". Does that come in at all?

J.T. It is the Lord coming there before He died. It would bring out the wonderful result of His work. It was a calculated thing with Him; it was no accident. All His movements in relation to Bethany are calculated. The calculated way in which the Lord moves is a peculiar phase of the gospel. It is to bring out the very best. There is no discrepancy at all there, save Judas' complaint at the end.

Ques. Would the thought of the Lord's perfect service come into it?

J.T. Quite so; it is a finished work. The upper room is similar, only that He has to deal further with them, but there is no correction at all at Bethany, save as to Judas. It is a finished piece of work. The Lord loves to come in for that, and Mary seized that opportunity to anoint Him. We should see

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something like that in the assembly, because the assembly is really provisional in its present condition, but it is to bring out these things week by week. The Lord loves to come in and share and enjoy what is there.

A.P.B. Would the "great property" be acquired during the six days and come out in the seventh?

J.T. Yes; the finished features are in the seventh.

Ques. Did you say the assembly is provisional?

J.T. It is. The assembly in this economy is in localities like this here in this town, and in other localities; that is the present situation. That is not final but provisional, and the work of God goes on in relation to it. The Lord comes into the localities and moves about among the assemblies and takes account of what is current. He comes in in relation to what is there. He also deals with what is not according to His mind, as seen in Revelation; but primarily He deals with what is according to His mind.

Ques. Is this principle of resting (chapter 35) illustrated in the women in Luke 23? They saw where Jesus was laid and rested quietly on the sabbath.

J.T. Although it also indicated a state of darkness, they were thinking of a dead Christ, instead of remembering that He had said that on the third day He would rise again; still they were subject in that way. What a spirit those women must have borne while resting on the sabbath!

Rem. A great variety of substance comes to light in chapter 35, acquired under the hand of Moses.

J.T. Quite so. The severe servitude of four hundred years must have borne fruit, reducing the flesh; that is the principle of it. But that is not under the hand of Moses. When we come under the hand of Christ, how different the authority! What feelings enter into it! Think what a pleasing master Boaz was; that is the idea. Jesus said, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light"; the yoke is not

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grievous. It is that kind of thing that is promoted and finished in the Sabbath. The chapters that follow show the completed product.

Ques. Is it in this way that the tabernacle of God is being formed?

J.T. That is what I was thinking. The tabernacle of God in Revelation is the holy city which comes down from God. I suppose the idea of the city in that passage is the acme of perfection. The city is said to be seen in two ways in the chapter, "I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband". That seems to be a wonderful setting out of perfection. It is the holy city, the new Jerusalem. There is holiness and newness, and the liberty of sonship, because it comes down out of heaven from God; she is prepared too, that is her own doing. "His wife has made herself ready" we read in chapter 19: 7. What a wonderful product! it is the supreme thought of divine workmanship. She is passive here, but she is also active according to chapter 19. The preparation is from her own side, showing the intelligence she has as to what is suitable to Christ. All that is going on now, as in the place of subjection, taking on what is suitable to Christ; so that she is seen here as prepared. She is not called the bride, but she is prepared as that for her husband. It is a very great thought of perfection and refinement. We belong to that. We can see the importance of developing now in quality, and not relinquishing subjection in any way.

Ques. There is a wonderful glory attaching to subjection, is there not? In 1 Corinthians 15:28, in regard to the Lord Jesus, it says, "When all things shall have been brought into subjection to him, then the Son also himself shall be placed in subjection to him who put all things in subjection to him".

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J.T. That is final, that "God may be all in all".

Ques. Does that refer to the period in chapter 21 here?

J.T. John brings in what is of God here; Paul gives us the final state of things with divine Persons, the Son placed in subjection to Him who put all things in subjection to Him, that God may be all in all. That is not 'all and in all', but "all in all"; He is objectively what He is subjectively. There is no room for any reminiscences of anything that would cause disturbance or distress or sorrow; it is God filling all.

E.H.F. Would that be seen in "God himself shall be with them, their God", Revelation 21:3? Do those two thoughts coalesce?

J.T. That is right; "God himself ... with them" would mean the filling. We know God as with us; that would involve that He is filling us; we are filled by Him. "Their God" is to retain supremacy as an Object of worship. He never ceases to be that. How touching that He should be near us! The assembly is His tabernacle; He has full scope because of what it is.

Ques. Will this be the full thought of God with regard to dwelling with men? The first was defeated for the time being in Adam.

J.T. This is the final thought. It is in a vessel, but it is so wonderfully wrought. It is in liberty, in refinement, the element of subjection is there. That is what she is for Christ, the bride adorned for her husband. Then the thought is turned round; she is called a tabernacle, meaning that there was nothing there to interfere with the divine dwelling. God is dwelling in relation to men, and in that abode He comes in and out among them.

Rem. The creation as we now see it is the product of six days, but this city will be the display of what God has been doing subjectively in the hearts of His people every day since.

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J.T. The Lord says, "My Father worketh hitherto and I work". The Son is working, and the Spirit is working and this is the product.

Ques. Is it the answer to Romans 9, "Vessels of mercy ... prepared for glory"?

J.T. All the vessels in this wonderful city are prepared for it. She herself is a great vessel in verse 11; we are all in it, and vessels of glory.

Ques. Have you in mind that this is an end to be reached when we are together in assembly?

J.T. We have all these thoughts there. One great effect of the teaching of Scripture is to furnish your mind with thoughts that enlarge you. You have them in your treasure. The idea of being a containing vessel is very prominent in Scripture; the Lord alludes to it in saying, "Every scribe discipled to the kingdom of the heavens, is like a man that is a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old", Matthew 13:52. He has a treasure, and brings out of it things new and old; the richness of yourself; you know your thoughts when in assembly; the Spirit of God is there, the Lord is there, and you are usable because of this richness with which you are invested. That is the idea, I think, of taking in great thoughts and being full of them. You do not bring them all out at once. That is what the Lord is helping us in, making us rich in our thoughts.

Ques. Would all the sympathy of the Lord be experienced in relation to subjection?

J.T. Quite so; the whole economy up there is set to support us here.

P.S. James refers to Job, and speaks of the pity and compassion of the Lord.

J.T. This great work is in the divine mind, and each of us is under the divine hand, and the priesthood of Christ is available to us, "If any one sin, we have a patron with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the propitiation for our sins;

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but not for ours alone, but also for the whole world", 1 John 2:1, 2. Why should anything be unsettled, and if dealt with, why should it appear as if unsettled? It should appear as plainly as possible if it is not settled, "He is the propitiation for our sins" -- and earlier, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness". There is nothing to hinder us in the service of God. The Holy Spirit is the Advocate down here; Jesus Christ is the Advocate up there. Why should anything be in the dark? Why should not everybody see that it is settled?

I.H.J.L. In Exodus 39 it says, "And Moses blessed them". Does that capacitate us to go further into this divine realm?

J.T. Well, I think Moses' blessing is Christ intimating to them that they are a finished product for the tabernacle. The Lord's supper and the new covenant enter into this matter, so you feel you are fitted; you feel it is a finishing touch.

Ques. Is that the idea in the vessels being filled to the brim in John 2?

J.T. "Fill the water-pots with water", He says, and when they are filled, He says, "Draw out now". That is the best wine. The word used to convey the idea with regard to Christ is always 'full' in the New Testament; with us, it is 'filled'.

J.A.P. Is the thought of God being "all in all", God tabernacling with men mediately through the assembly?

J.T. Quite so, and through Christ too. God the Father cannot be seen; He dwells "in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor is able to see". But still, it is God dwelling in us, and we in God. It is all in the Spirit, but it is God nevertheless.

Ques. Would the apostle's prayer in Ephesians 3:19, be on this line, that they might be "filled even to all the fulness of God"?

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J.T. That alludes to the revelation made in Christ; "God all in all" is really a stronger expression than that.

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CHILDREN GIVEN TO CHRIST

Exodus 18:2 - 4; Genesis 41:50 - 52; Isaiah 8:18

These scriptures speak of children given to Christ, Joseph and Moses being typical of Christ; and Isaiah speaking directly of Christ: all to bring to our attention the idea of children which God has given to Him. The bearing of these Scriptures is on ourselves; indeed, whenever the scripture is read the bearing is on him who reads or those present; as in the Lord's case, starting out in His service He stood up to read in the synagogue at Nazareth, and as He read He said, "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your ears"; the bearing of it was on those present. It had been read before many times, and it has been read since, and whenever read, it was bearing on those who heard. So now these scriptures bear on us in this town today, and one might say they are fulfilled too, not only in our ears, but in our hearts, for in truth we belong to those children.

Moses represents the Lord in His strangership here. Joseph represents Him as among the gentiles, exclusively so; Isaiah 8 points to Him as in relation to the house of Jacob. God was hiding His face, he said, from the house of Jacob, and He gave Christ children.

Now the hope is that we should all be able to assimilate the teaching of these passages from the standpoint of which I have spoken, that is, that we have part in the children whom God gave to Christ, and the aim of the address will be to show how the traits indicated are to bear upon us where strangership is accepted first, that is in Gershom. We, as all believers having part in the fellowship, are very prone to be national, and to live largely in relation to national history and existence. We are most carefully

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and emphatically enjoined to be subject to the powers that be; nothing is plainer than that, and indeed we should show our sympathy with them because they have a mandate from God. Governments in themselves abstractly are not the world; they have to be distinguished from it: they are of God, "The powers that be are ordained", we are told, not simply allowed, but "ordained of God", so that it is imperative that we respect them and assist them too, but as fully maintaining the rights of God and Christ, for we must obey God rather than men, whoever they may be. They may demand from us more than they should, entrenching on the divine rights. We may all do that to one another; we may demand from each other beyond what we should, entrenching on the divine rights. But then there are obligations to our brethren, and obligations to our fellow-men as creatures of God, and there are obligations to the authorities from the king down. All these obligations enter into christian responsibility. I would specially refer to our obligations to our fellow-creatures; they have to be looked at abstractly, not exactly as the world, but like ourselves, as living and moving and having our being in God. So that speaking to them of God and of Christ on that ground, there is always a point of contact with men. The Lord sent His apostles into all the world but to preach the gospel to "every creature". The world is the moral side, the creature or creation is itself of God and must be respected.

As brethren, of course, we are regarded as under obligations to one another. It is well to be balanced in this, because we are told "Every man shall bear his own burden". Let him understand that, that he is to bear his own burden. No godly man will be a public charge or dependent even on his brethren; he will bear his own burden. But then we have obligations to one another which are most important if we

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are to maintain right relations and feelings. These obligations must be observed, and among other things, we must submit ourselves to the brethren. If there be no confidence underlying our public relations with one another, there is no moral effect at all. Confidence must underlie fellowship, and love is the basis of confidence. If I have confidence in the brethren I can submit myself to them.

Making due allowance for all these things one is to be a stranger here. The Lord Jesus took up that ground. Moses said, "I have been an alien in a strange land", he felt it and we all feel strangership. Our next-door neighbours look askance at us as we take this ground. There is suffering attached to it. With persons who would favour you, distance sets in as soon as they discover you are taking this ground. So Moses felt it. We can enter into his position as he sat by the well in Midian having fled from Egypt, the land of his birth, though he was no Egyptian; he had already identified himself with his brethren in their slavery; he had committed himself to them. He went out, we are told, to look on his brethren; the children of Israel. They were slaves publicly, but they were his brethren. The reproach of Egypt indeed was just that, that he had accepted identification with his brethren although they were despised in Egypt. He had to flee the country, and he sat by the well. We can enter into his feelings of strangership! Egypt closed to him, though the Israelites were there, not in Canaan then. Egypt was closed to him and the wrath of the king was behind him; he had no friend in Midian, but was alone by the well. This is an experience we need to understand. We should covet to understand and appropriate that sense of strangership, even though but for a moment, it is not to be forgotten. His marriage with Zipporah did not cause his strangership to cease. His father-in-law was kind, but the sense of strangership remained and

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Gershom must express it. Each in his house must express it, for the head of the house is not alone to accept the strangership. The house is to accept it, too. There is to be the testimony to strangership, not only by the head or the parents, but by all in it. What is incompatible with strangership has no place in a believer's house. Literature, ways and conversation, all is to denote strangership. Gershom represents what is prominent in the house every minute of the day, testifying to the strangership of Moses and of his house.

Then, dear brethren, in accepting the strangership we come in for divine help. It was not a new thought: it was a patriarchal thought. It began with Abraham; the word to him was, "Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house", and we are told that Abraham confessed that he was a pilgrim and stranger on the earth. And then it is added, "God is not ashamed of them, to be called their God; for he has prepared for them a city", Hebrews 11:16. So with Moses, he comes in for divine help. What can be greater than that! Eliezer -- the help of God, "God is my help", he says. The suffering will go on with the strangership; it is allied with the strangership. We cannot but suffer, in spirit at least, in the acceptance of strangership, but then we get God's company and God's help; so the second son in the house represents that. What a household! These two sons make the house; not simply Moses and Zipporah, but the whole house. Strangership and divine help mark the house at the same time. So Moses kept his father-in-law's flock for forty years. Think of the wonderful patience of the man in that country of strangership! We never hear of any wages demanded or given, as with Jacob. Moses is the subject man; he represents the book of Exodus. He has learnt subjection, as another great servant said, "I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content", Philippians 4:11. Moses

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was like that, and in due course he was further helped of God. He speaks of "the good will of him that dwelt in the bush". That word "good will" is a remarkable phrase, it is used in business; men include it in their accounts. Sometimes it is of very little value, but think of the value of the good will of Him that dwelt in the bush, entering into one's house, entering into one's circumstances! Here, it is written in large letters on the family. Eliezer, God helps! it is "the good will of him that dwelt in the bush". You can see, dear brethren, how independent we are of the world. There is the strangership and the suffering allied to it, but there is divine support every moment of the day and night, so that we are rendered independent as Moses was: he was delivered from Pharaoh, the greatest power at that time; Moses should prove this throughout all his days, and his children are to be witnesses to this. We are to be witnesses to strangership and divine help, subjection marking the whole position, just as with Moses in Midian during the forty years of his life there, feeding sheep. He led them to the backside of the desert, to the mount of God. We have already spoken of it; it is the place of divine resource; we shall never want, one can say that with assurance, we shall never want there, "On the mount of Jehovah will be provided", Genesis 22:14. That is where Moses was when Jehovah appeared to him in the bush, where the good will was shown. It is very precious in a land of strangership with the suffering that goes with it, to come under the influence of good will in somebody. Even the world itself at times is changed towards us, for "the king's heart is in the hand of the Lord". That is the good will and there is nothing so comforting as the sense of favourable will towards you in a time of suffering -- "the good will of him that dwelt in the bush".

Well now, Joseph is another view of Christ, and one feels, in view of what we have had already, that what

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I am saying is of the greatest importance in a practical way. We are to be witnesses of Christ's present position, rejected in this world, as a Stranger rejected, but He has these children. They are our very selves, dear brethren! Others have come and gone, but we are here today, and the onus is on us, as to strangership and the power of God; we are set up in strangership, but with divine support in the good will of Him that dwelt in the bush. Joseph is Christ as among the gentiles; he was in Egypt. We have to read every passage contextually. Joseph is in the very spot whence Moses had to flee. It is another position; earlier indeed, but in the order of the truth coming in later, for it is Christ as entirely among the gentiles. There is an occasional convert among the Jews today, but it is very exceptional. The apostle Paul sets out the position; no one loved Israel, aside from Christ, more than Paul did. He said he had wished to be accursed from Christ for them. No one clung to them more than Paul, but they were unaffected. They go away reasoning, and he has to say, "Lo, we turn to the Gentiles", Acts 13:46, "This salvation of God has been sent to the nations; they also will hear it", Acts 28:28. That is the position from that day to this; not that there were not many Jews at first in the assembly; there were, but the position was changed, it was no longer the Jew first, the Jew was left out altogether -- "Lo, we turn to the Gentiles". "The salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and ... they will hear it". The Colossian epistle written from Rome sets it out, it is addressed to the gentile purely. It is said of Paul at Rome that he dwelt in his own hired house. He was independent in that sense; he was not an owner, he hired his house. He maintained strangership in the very heart of the nation in power in Rome. He wrote the epistle to the Colossians from that point of view. He wrote to the Ephesians, too, in which he included

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the Jews very strikingly (Ephesians 2:11 - 22), but the characteristic gentile epistle from Rome is that to the Colossians.

Joseph says, "God has made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house". It is what the Lord Jesus would say to us week by week, 'I have forgotten all about the Jews, My relation with them, My toil with them' -- and, oh, how He toiled amongst them! "God has made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house". All the precious relations according to the promises to the fathers are forgotten. It is a remarkable thing, and the Lord would give us to understand, dear brethren, that He is entirely devoted to the gentiles now, and among them. "Ye also" being gentiles, "Ye also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit", Ephesians 2:22. Christ "among the gentiles" -- "Christ in [or among] you the hope of glory", Colossians 1:27. Think of that in this town! Christ has for the moment given up His relationship with the Jews; He is perfectly content with us. "God has made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house". This is the firstborn Manasseh. That household is characterised by it; forgetting all Jewish claims and judaism. For the time being He is taken up with us entirely as taken out from among the nations.

Then there is Ephraim -- double fruitfulness. Ephraim is doubly fruitful. First there is the sense of forgetfulness of one's connections after the flesh. We have to learn everything from Christ. This matter of family links after the flesh, as entering into this position, is damaging everywhere, family links after the flesh influencing in the assembly of Christ. It is contrary to what this passage teaches. The Lord has forgotten all that, why not we? Why not learn to forget as we view the saints in assembly relations, to shut out of our minds mere natural links? They have their place, of course, as Israel has its place,

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but for the moment the Lord is given up wholly to us, and so each one of us as in the assembly, for the moment, whilst recognising family links, is entirely free from them as having no place in the assembly. If this were taken home to our hearts, it would save us much sorrow. My father is to be no more to me in the assembly than another, nor my brother, nor my wife, nor my child. We are to learn to forget things. We need the Spirit for this. We are to forget the natural. By doing so we would save ourselves and others from many a sorrow, and from grieving the Holy Spirit in the service of God. The Lord Himself said to His mother, "Woman, what have I to do with thee?" (John 2:4), and again, when they say, "Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee", He says, "Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother", Mark 3:32 - 35. The natural is shut out in that way, dear brethren, for the good of the testimony, for the satisfaction of Christ, too, and the service of God. We are to be relieved of all that is natural. So in Psalm 45, one of the Maschil psalms, we read, "Forget thine own people and thy father's house", (verse 10). Learn to do it. You say, How can I forget? It is in the power of the Spirit that I can forget and shut out everything that is extraneous to a particular time. The Spirit is equal to it. We have to learn to forget. "Forget thine own people and thy father's house; and the king will desire thy beauty; for he is thy Lord". That is brought in very significantly. Let us never think, dear brethren, for one instant that anything is optional, for in the things of God everything that God enjoins is imperative. What is privilege is privilege, but it becomes an imperative matter, "He is thy Lord". It is worth while to forget mine own people and my father's house if the Lord desires my beauty. The Lord says, 'I am thy

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Lord and what I indicate is imperative'. It is sinful to go back to what the Lord enjoins me to forget. It is much more sinful than we often assume. We assume that things are optional. The definition of sin in Scripture is "lawlessness".

Finally, in Isaiah we have this matter of signs. "Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel" (chapter 8: 18). I am to be a sign, the public thing; not only in the house as in the case of these sons of Moses and Joseph, but these children that God gave Christ after hiding His face from the house of Jacob are for signs and wonders in Israel. It is another view. When the apostles were in Jerusalem after the Lord went up to heaven, they were outstanding men. We have to take the book of the Acts for this. Luke does not separate them from Israel, not even in the earlier chapters of the Acts, but there is from the outset a direct link with the assembly, and a direct separation from the Jewish position. They went back to it in grace, for testimony. They were to be for signs and wonders in Israel, but the position secretly was in the upper room. A rigid Pharisee might see these men going there; he may have said, Where are these men going? What are they doing there? That question might be asked in hundreds of places throughout this country with regard to our meeting-rooms. People do not understand, seeing motor cars standing round, sometimes in numbers, sometimes sumptuous enough, but where are the owners? What are these men about? Well, there it is. They go into that room sometimes by hundreds, sometimes by thousands. What are they doing? Why do they not go to the cathedral and other such buildings? They are quite large enough. Those that saw the Lord Jesus go up, according to the Acts, went to the upper room. What did they go for? That is the sign, that is the wonder. Let them wonder!

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What was going on inside that room? Well, the Spirit of God just dwells on their names; they were all known in heaven, the handiwork of Christ. They are for signs and wonders in Israel. They do not build on the ordinary religious principles; no religious architecture at all attaches to their buildings. Why is that? Well, there it is; it is a sign, something to notice in Israel. You go inside, what do you see? It is not inopportune to remark that it is due to God that our meeting-rooms should be such as not to be a discredit to the testimony. They should not be prohibitive in any sense to the ordinary person. It should be perfectly plain that anyone may come there to hear what is said. Occasionally one may be convicted of sin inside; why should you keep him out by any objectionableness in the room? Why should the room not be such as should help, not hinder, such a person coming in? He may fall down, "convicted of all", according to 1 Corinthians 14:24.

In Acts 1 those persons who went into the upper room were staying there. They were not strangers there; they were staying there. They would let anyone go in; I am sure the door was not locked. The principle is that they were for signs and wonders in Israel. Let them ask; someone will go further than merely asking, and will find out. Peter will give a good account. That is what he did in his remarkable address. But while they were that, they were for "signs and wonders in Israel"; they were the children that God gave Christ, a sort of recompense, and we can understand how He loved coming among them, and that continues to this very day. He loves to come in among His children. It is only a figurative thought, it is not properly the assembly, but the expression "children" carries with it its own suggestion, that is, how a father loves his children, and I suppose it entered into all the Lord's visitations, how He appeared to them. As risen from among the dead,

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He would say "Children". It is a parental thought of the tenderest kind, and that is how the Lord loves to come among us. He does not fail in love of any quality, and He loves us in a parental way. We see that as we make way for Him; as we wait upon Him He comes in. So it says, "He appeared to", or "was seen of above five hundred brethren at once". You can understand how He would look around on them with parental feeling. It is one of the features of our position, that the Lord comes in in this parental way. In a care meeting, or at any time, He would look at us and say "Children". We are signs and wonders publicly, but secretly we come under the wings of Christ, and thus are rendered independent of this world.

That is what I had to say and I commit it to the Lord, dear brethren.

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RECEIVING CHRIST

Luke 9:47, 48, 51 - 53; Luke 10:38; John 1:11 - 13; John 5:43

I have before me, dear brethren, to speak about the reception of Christ as seen in these scriptures, and others to which I may make reference, having in mind that the subject has a very direct bearing now, as I hope to show. Luke gives the general outline of the subject; the verses read in chapter 9 give a lead as to it. I cannot refer to them seriatim but according to the place the subject has in one's mind, and that is that Luke in a positive sense stresses beforehand the time of Christ's receiving up; that is, he would bring forward heaven's thought or part in the matter to shed light on all the features of the subject, for heaven does that. It indicated from the outset what was present in Christ among Israel, secretly first and publicly. As He entered upon His service heaven opened upon Him and a voice announced both to Himself and to others who He was and how He was regarded up there. So as the service proceeds, there should be a termination of it, an end, not only to the service but to the path entered upon. There was, as it were, a vacancy up there, for although, as He said, He was "the Son of man which is in heaven" (John 3:13), yet on becoming Man Christ was here corporeally on earth, and as far as Scripture shows He never entered heaven corporeally until He was raised from the dead. He was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father. Before He was raised He did indeed go to paradise, as He says to the thief, "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise", but that is never spoken of as heaven in the full sense of the word, nor is the place of the departed saints ever so spoken of; it is a provisional place. Heaven is finality and administrative. So our Lord becoming Man here, His place was up there and a place awaited Him.

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He entered there according to John and according to Hebrews in His own right, but according to Luke it was a question of His reception there, to bring heaven's appreciation of Him more into view. Paul expresses the thought in a most striking way, "Received up in glory"; that is heaven's side. Luke says He was carried up, and again, in the Acts, he says He was taken up, a cloud receiving Him from their eyes, marking the finish of the period here of sight for the moment. A cloud received Him, and Peter follows that up by saying that the heavens must receive Him. The 'must' there in no sense means compulsion, but rather that the divine thoughts for the moment require His session there. He is not only there but He is there in session, sitting at the right hand of God according to Mark, and according to His own words to Laodicea He is the Overcomer there; He is sitting with His Father in His throne.

So that there is no time at all lost; there is no suggestion, dear brethren, in divine arrangements and movements and appointments of any lapse or void, all is filled out with infinite accuracy and in love. All divine movements are in love, even in judgment. The activities of love are probably one of the greatest themes to be considered. So that our Lord Jesus Christ tonight is there on the principle of reception: "Whom the heaven must receive", says Peter; that is, divine requirements are involved in the 'must'. Heaven loves the thought of His presence; He is there with acclamation; every intelligence there would move, you may be sure, in that reception. He is there in that way and there is no staleness at all in His session, in His state there, for He is engaged in love, as He said to His Father, "Glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee". That is going on now, but the principle of reception is there all the time, and Luke says that the time for it had drawn nigh, and hence the Lord

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would move. He had been near it on the mount, but He had come back. All the features, you might say, were there: the heavenly saints, Christ Himself, not in His lowly guise here below but transfigured, the Father's voice and the earthly saints; all the whole thought of God was there in miniature, one might say, at least in principle. The Lord had just come down; heaven was not strange to Him, dear brethren, even as Man. According to John and Hebrews He went there to His own place, "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?". He sat Himself down there, acclaimed according to what He is, but He would go out via Jerusalem. The time of His receiving up was in the Spirit's mind, and the Lord would go to Jerusalem.

Well now, I shall come back to this text again for other reasons, but I go on to John to show that, whilst Luke would bring in the receptiveness of heaven, heaven's value of this glorious Person who belonged to it, John would show that He had been here amongst His own in the world. He says, "The world was made by him". John is very condensed in his opening verses (1 - 13), which are a sort of preface to his whole book. He combines the actual creative thought, the world in its physical form, with the moral side. He says, "He was in the world, and the world was made by him". It was not made in the moral sense but it was in its physical character. "And the world knew him not" -- that is the moral side. "He came unto his own, and his own received him not"; "his own" might be rendered, 'that which was his own', that is, it is the neuter, involving something that was His special possession, properly His. All right thought and feeling would recognise this, a strong expression of ownership, "And his own received him not".

I will come back to this negative side in a moment, but I want just to dwell on the great fact of the

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matter, namely those who did receive Him. I will come back to the detail later, but I want to stress for the moment, dear brethren, the result of receiving Christ. How God watched the course of things; and He watches the course of every one of us. He watched the course of things in relation to Christ. All those thoughts that John compresses so wonderfully were in the divine mind in that wonderful course of Christ's pathway, and God would say, 'There are those who are receiving My beloved Son', receiving Him, not simply believing, that is mentioned too, but they are receiving Him. It was a matter of history, history in heaven as on earth. He came forth in that way, not only that they might believe for the forgiveness of sins and the like, eternal life as John presents it, but that they might receive this glorious Person. This has a present bearing, dear brethren, which I hope to come to, but I am speaking of the general position, what it was to heaven, what that history was as one after another received Him.

I am stressing this because we have to distinguish between receiving and simply believing or being among the number known as believers, even in the fellowship, for we may be in the fellowship and be short of this properly. Our treatment of the brethren, our reception of the brethren, is an index as to where we are in regard of Christ, as sure as anything can be. He is the test of our standing and our state. As He draws near to us our state is exposed, whether it be directly by the Spirit, or even in His own presence here, or whether it be in the saints. The presence of Christ in the saints is a test to us, how we regard them, how we think of them and speak of them and treat them generally, particularly how we receive them, or whether we receive them and for what reason we receive them. All this is a test. There is no one here that is not tested, whether we are conscious of it or not. Very often we are not conscious of

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conditions in ourselves but others are quite cognisant of them, and it is as we observe the course of people day by day and week by week that we come to a conclusion, and I have no hesitation in saying that we should have a judgment about each other. It is a safe way. It is definitely required that we should have a judgment about one another, not a hostile judgment, not critical, but a sober estimate according to God of what is there in each person, especially what is of the work of God. The epistles abound with evidence of this; the apostles had a judgment about the brethren.

Well now, I have this verse in John particularly in view in what I have to say, "As many as received him ...". It is not a question of collective reception although there is that. What times they had in the forty days of the Lord's sojourn here from the day of His resurrection to the day of His ascension! They were unique days. We have others mentioned, such as Moses' forty days on the mount with Jehovah, and Elijah's experience, and other experiences, but never such a period of forty days as those with Christ risen. The brethren were all ready. Paul omits the perturbation that Luke records because he is not speaking of assembly privilege in 1 Corinthians 15, he is speaking from another point of view, namely, that Christ was indeed risen, a fact that we do well to take into our souls and keep there freshly. They were saying it at the beginning, "The Lord is risen indeed". What I am stressing now is that we might keep the thing there freshly, that He is indeed risen. Not that He has risen, that is not what they are saying, but that the Lord is risen; it is a present, continuous fact to be maintained freshly in our souls, and that is why the apostle brings in the appearance to Cephas and then to the twelve, and to five hundred brethren at once, to James, and to all the apostles, and then to Paul himself. Paul's experience, of course, must be outside

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the period of the forty days, but there it is. The main thought is what came into those forty days; it is not simply the doctrine of the resurrection -- that, of course, is important -- but the fact that the person is raised. "Now is Christ risen from the dead", says the apostle. "The Lord is risen indeed". It is a present fact, and what a fact it is. From the power standpoint it is the foundation of everything, for divine power wrought then and it is towards us, dear brethren.

But I am speaking now of what ought to affect our hearts, that the Lord is risen and indeed He is risen. So that the saints were kept alive as to it, and they were ready for Him in time to come amongst them. We are told in Acts 1 that He presented Himself alive. That is a beautiful thought. Think of the Lord designing a certain aspect of Himself to appear before them. We know He appeared in other forms to others, He can do that. The book of Revelation shows how He can change His form, and it is a solemn act, because instead of dove's eyes, His eyes are a flame of fire. He could make all those changes, but Luke says He presented Himself living: "To whom also he presented himself living, after he had suffered". All that is touching. John says the disciples were glad when they saw Him. I mention all this as to the forty days to show how the idea of receptiveness was there, the thought of it, the fact of it. The Lord was delightful; as He came in they were glad and He was glad, too, that they were glad, that they seized the position. That is John's point of view, they grasped the greatness of it and were glad. They were not perturbed in John's record. And He says, "Peace be unto you" twice. I believe that the Lord means that as joy; joy comes into our hearts; it is to be consolidated, we ought not to let it go, but consolidate it, hold it there, and Paul would say, "Rejoice in the Lord always: again I will say, Rejoice", "Rejoice

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evermore". So that the state of receptivity of Christ was there in fulness and that is what I am aiming at now. They had received Him, so that one can understand with what pungency of spiritual power John would speak of this, for he was there when the Lord came in after He arose, so he says, "As many as received him ...". How he would say, I belong to those. Let each of our hearts say it in honesty, that I belong to those who receive Christ, not only believe on Him or believe Him even, but receive Him. Then we have added by John, "To them gave he the right to be" (that is, take the place of) "children of God", not 'sons', the word is 'children'; it is a dignified word for children, that is, that we really belong to the family, are born into it, the youngest, as it were, having the same status as the eldest; there is no difference in that sense, "To those that believe on his name". That is not to be left out, because as John is writing this, Christ has gone to heaven and His name is here. That is the test at the present time, the name. But then the birth -- "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God". What a distinction: no angel can take up this right. It is a question of the right; it is not here that the thing is conferred, dear brethren, that is from God's side; what is in mind here is active interest in the divine calling, in what is in the mind of God for us.

So John would have us always living; it is one of his main points that I live; life is active in us, so that he says it is your right, your title, to take that place. Why did He do it? -- because we received Him. One can understand this thought as it came in to the early christians, as the Spirit of God gave it power, for that is the principle, not only that light comes into my soul but that the Spirit of God enlarges it. That principle is seen really in Ezekiel's river. It is a very small thing at the first, it is not even called a

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river but just water, or waters in the plural, issuing from the house from under the threshold, from the right side of the house on the south side of the altar, and then a good time elapses so to say, and Ezekiel is taken round by the north gate to the outer gate, by the way that looked eastward, and he sees it again and it is larger. That is the principle, that is the power of expansion. A new thought is definitely placed in our hearts; let us let these thoughts expand, dear brethren. The Holy Spirit in us is, so to say, compressed. And that is really the secret of so much that causes sorrow; one has observed it in persons who have not the Spirit, or at least do not know the power of the Spirit. Let the thing expand itself. Paul uses that very word. Let your hearts expand themselves; be ye also enlarged. The more scope, the greater is the thought that comes into the soul; it comes in as light, too; then the Holy Spirit takes it on, faith operating and scope given to it, and it expands and expands.

So it is with the thought of the reception of Christ. Think of that word, the reception of Christ, that it could be applied in regard of my soul! How would heaven receive Him? Well, I want to be like that, receive Him in glory. Do not be ashamed. How can I receive Him in glory in my heart if I am ashamed of Him, ashamed to speak of Him to my companions in the works or elsewhere? Receive Him in glory, He is worthy of it. Heaven regards Him so, and so does everyone who loves Him. The assembly becomes expanded as Christ comes in spiritually, not actually. The appearings that Paul records are corporeal appearings, but I am speaking now of what is spiritual. It is just as real, and every time it is recognised there is expansion. Let our hearts expand themselves.

So, as I was saying, the divine thought of reception came in as light. How it would affect such as John and the others, and how the Holy Spirit has come in

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from Christ in heaven, taking it up and causing it to expand. That is really the antidote to spiritual smallness and stuntedness; there is a great deal of that. Let us make full allowance, dear brethren, for a divine thought; it comes in as light and faith, but the Spirit expands it. There is no limit to that in a way, I mean what the thing is in itself, for Ezekiel says it was a river he could not pass over, but he does not stop there; he says it cannot be passed over. It is his judgment in the matter and we want to have a judgment of things; we are dealing with infinite things, let us never assume to compass them, let us give place to the Spirit and we shall be filled with all the fulness of God, but never to compass it. We are still creatures, but we are happy as we are subject and allow the Spirit to expand and expand the divine thoughts in us. We are not like the old bottles, no matter how great the expansion of thought is, the new bottle does not burst. The more you think over anything that has come into your soul, the more you meditate upon it, the more it expands. "He that has wrought us for this very thing is God", so that we are great enough for any thought which God gives us and for the Spirit to expand in us.

Well, that was the state of things, the state for the reception of Christ marked the saints at the beginning and commensurate with that was this great matter that they had the right or title to take the place of children of God, and then the Spirit gave them to know and realise that they were not born of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. That is the main thought that I had in mind, that we might get it into our souls and understand our status now, as John gives it again, "See what love the Father has given to us, that we should be called the children of God".

Now I go back just for a moment to speak of the details, and the first is the Lord's face was, as it were,

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turned towards Jerusalem. He was going out that way. He is not going out by a society or any distinction in this world. Let us learn to leave all those things, the Lord loathes them all. Let us loathe any copying of this world, however small. He was going out by Jerusalem, and He sends certain before Him to prepare His way, for He is a great Person, and of course if He comes into a town like this, to prepare His way means the brushing aside of all worldly things, all borrowed things or imitations of this world, none of that for the Lord. Luke makes much of this matter of preparation for the Lord's visits. This meeting enters into the thought of preparation for Him. We are told of a certain Samaritan village that they would not allow Him to come that way, they would not receive Him. They would say, Present Him in another way, let Him come in another way with some little recognition of Samaria. As the woman of John 4, how much she had in her mind: 'I belong to Samaria'. You can hear her say it. How often this local or national thought appears in us, dear brethren! it is a shame to us. They would not receive Him. His face is in that direction towards Jerusalem. Ministry indicates that. What a direction it is, a way of suffering! It is the way of the cross; the way to glory is by the cross. Dear brethren, let us join in that way and not fall out of it, let us go the whole way; it is the way to glory by the cross. Samaria says, No, we will not receive that Man.

Now another thing comes out in Martha. She did receive Him and she received Him into her house. Well, I may do that; Simon the Pharisee also received Him into his house, but it was not because he loved Him, it was because He was in his mind somewhat of a distinguished Person, and he thought he could not go very far wrong in inviting a man so distinguished into his house. The Lord submitted to it,

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having more in view than Simon had in view. Glory came into that house and glory went out of it, not only in Christ but in the poor sinner that was forgiven. "Go in peace", says the Lord; she went out gloriously; the Lord went out gloriously, too, but she went out before Him gloriously. That is what the Lord can do, even in such circumstances. He is always triumphant, He never takes up any position or goes any way that does not end in triumph, whatever other people may have in their minds.

Now the sequel shows that Martha was different. It is John that gives us the sequel of Martha, not Luke. She would be a poor sister in our minds had not John come to her rescue. He takes up every bit of the work of God, wherever it is and in whomsoever it is, and makes the most of it. The Spirit expands the work of God in our souls, but love also expands the work of God as we speak of it publicly. Paul's affections for the Corinthians were expanded and they were publicly made known, "Known and read of all men", and I think that is more like John's gospel, where we have the real Martha. The abstract Martha is developed into a concrete sister, serving in love, she is in her place, though it is much as it is with many of us. At first she received the Lord into her house, but she made it very uncomfortable for Him in the house. That is a poor thing, it is indeed. Well, the Lord accepted the invitation and the reception, and the glory came out. John gives you the glorious side. Bethany is a glory scene in Luke too, but John gives the full thought of God as to the work of Christ in that town. It is a love matter.

Well, I am speaking now, dear brethren, of the matter of receiving, not Christ personally, but those who are like Him. That is the point, for in our passage in Luke 9 He sets a little child by Him, as much as to say, He is before your eyes objectively. It is not what you see every day, but it is what is

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alongside of Him, and what he is in keeping with Him. That is the idea. Now He says, "Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me; and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me". So that this enters into the reception of those who serve the saints; are they not worthy? The Lord has set them alongside of Himself. He says, 'Look at Me and look at him'. He said to Simon about the woman, 'Look at this woman. I am looking at her; she has qualities that are of Me'. It is a love matter, and of course love must enter into all divine service, however small or great. I wish there were more of it. So that is the test, it is a question of how you receive the person with whom the Lord identifies Himself. What you do to him you do to Christ; it is a question, as I was saying, of a state of receptivity of Christ, that is the test, not simply that a man has gift; of course that has to be respected, that is of Christ, too, and has its own place, but with this little child it is not a question of gift but of quality, likeness to Christ, and as I receive that little child I receive Christ.

The other side is what I want to finish with. It is a terrible suggestion of the Lord's in the verse in John 5; He says, "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not". He is not saying, I have come here in the works of power or in likeness to God, representative of God, but "I am come in my Father's name" -- it is a question of the Father -- "and ye receive me not". All that I have been saying now enters into this verse, because we are on the very eve of the coming of the person to whom the Lord alludes, the antichrist. It is most solemn. These things are no longer prophetic thoughts that may be taken up in a sort of academic way; they are at our very doors; they exist in principle. Antichrist does not exist; I mean there is no suggestion of that in what the Lord says and what I have

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in mind, but John says, "Ye have heard that antichrist comes". We know that, every christian should know it and accept it and frame his course accordingly. "Even now", he says, "there have come many antichrists", 1 John 2:18. That is, the thing is always there; it is as apprehending the thought that I am able to count the number of his name. "The mystery of iniquity doth already work", says the apostle (2 Thessalonians 2:7). John says there are many antichrists, so that the thing is always among the saints. We have, for instance, antichrist typified in Absalom; he did not prevail, but the thing was there, he is a type. The thing is here, whether it be political or religious, because those two sides enter into the antichrist, the political side and the religious side, for he sits down in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. The religious side is there, and the religious side has been with us all the time since Paul wrote. The continuance of the imperial side is existent all the time, so that it is not a matter ever to be taken up merely as a theory, as a thing to be discussed as science could be discussed. The thing is with us always, dear brethren, but antichrist is another matter, he comes, and the Lord is here referring to that terrible and solemn fact, and it is only as we receive Christ, receive Him in the sense, dear brethren, of which I have been speaking, as a present reality in our souls, that we are immune from every influence of the antichrist that is to come. It does not touch us as we receive Christ and our hearts are fortified and antichrist is foreign to us, we do not allow his influence, we do not take on the number of his name, we do not take on any badge. I hate badges, representations of human organisations and human methods. They are not of heaven. The only badge that Scripture speaks about is a spiritual one, namely a tassel on the borders of our garments; that is the kind of badge of a heavenly character,

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that is what commends us as representative of heaven, but not a wretched badge representing some society or some greater thing such as trade unions and the like. These are all foreign, dear brethren, to the reception of Christ. The admission of them means that the reception of Christ in our hearts is minimised, and would gradually be non-existent; so that I urge on the brethren this thought of the reception of Christ. So He says, "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not". But there are those who have received Him, and how delightful they are, as I have already remarked. May God bless these things to us.

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SPIRITUALITY IN DISCERNMENT, ENVIRONMENT AND RECOVERY

1 Corinthians 2:12 - 16; Luke 8:49 - 56; Galatians 6:1

J.T. These scriptures in a general way are outstanding as affording instruction about spirituality. 1 Corinthians 2 has in view the discernment of things or persons; and the scripture in Luke is in relation to young people, how the thought is not to be detached from them, but rather attached, that they should be as far as possible in spiritual environment, so as to come into the assembly speedily, not hindered by literal age. Then in Galatians spirituality stands in relation to recovery or restoration, an important side of our position. There is so much delinquency and failure in general but the spirit of recovery should always be with us; it is here connected with spiritual persons. That is in general what is in mind.

E.S.H. Very good; it is what we feel we need. You speak of spiritual discernment in regard to things and persons in 1 Corinthians 2?

J.T. It is what is much needed, for we are so affected by judaism in our relations with one another and even in assembly procedure, that we need to be divested of it in becoming spiritual and discerning; for we are in difficult times and times of limitation. Much is put on externally that is wanting in spiritual depth, power and discernment. We need, therefore, to have discernment; for it is said here, "The spiritual discerns all things".

Ques. Is there a reason why Paul speaks in the negative so much? "Wisdom not of this world" (verse 6); "not the spirit of the world" (verse 12); and then, "the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God" (verse 14). Several times he seems

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to precede his remarks with some negative statement: is that because of their danger?

J.T. Quite so; and we learn by contrast very largely. One has thought of the Lord's remark concerning Abraham, "This did not Abraham", John 8:40. You may find it difficult to find a scripture to apply to any particular thing, conduct or ways current, but it helps to examine spiritual men, whether these things marked them; so the negative helps there: "This did not Abraham". Being the father of all believers, he is a model in that negative way, and so the 'not' here, and also in Colossians, "Have your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are on the earth" (chapter 3: 2). That negative thought runs through this epistle; the apostle had to confine himself to certain initial or elementary features of the truth, whereas he had that which was more spiritual and was ready to bring it out when opportunity offered. He was compelled to be hindered in speaking to them, presenting the negative side, confining himself to certain fundamental truths; but he says, "We speak wisdom among the perfect".

E.S.H. Perfect in the sense of being those who have arrived at giving the Spirit His place and having Christ before them?

J.T. Yes. Spiritually their senses are exercised. The five natural senses are suggestive of spiritual completeness; the sense of perfection spiritually is that you are not wanting in the use of any of your senses, you have the use of them all. Natural features often dull the exercise of our spiritual sensibilities. So "the perfect" would mean, I think, that a brother can be trusted in his exercise, having all his senses and not dominated by natural feelings; you can trust him with the greatest things. One great need in assembly service, order and care, is trustworthiness, that the Lord can entrust us with things. You would

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not trust a man in certain positions who was blind, or without smell, or partly or wholly deaf; these are imperfections which cause us to be untrustworthy.

F.I. You have in mind that spiritual discernment is necessary to us in the two important features of reception in relation to young persons or fresh persons and recovery in regard to those who fail?

J.T. Well, that is an important side of our subject -- the discernment of things and persons. The word 'things' is used, but then the spiritual man is said to be beyond the discernment of anyone; he is linked on with what is eternal, "the depths of God". Well, you cannot fathom those depths, and yet you can see generally he is an honest person, a reliable person, but he is beyond the range of almost anyone, even Satan, which is an immense advantage. No one discerns him, but he discerns all things and is able to name what he sees. The first principle is, I suppose, seen in Adam naming the animals, discerning the qualities; so a spiritual man is able to discern what comes up by examination; he is not in haste, he is careful in his examination, but he finally reaches a definite judgment about a thing and he stands on that. He is a most useful man, not marked by vacillation.

F.I. In connection with the naming of the animals, "God ... brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them" (Genesis 2:19); so God is taking account of every spiritual movement.

J.T. Quite so; you will get divine support as you stand by your judgment; God will be with you. That is an immense help in our care meetings and in cases where judgment is needed.

P.H.H. Do you think Moses would be a help in connection with, "We speak wisdom among the perfect; but wisdom not of this world, nor of the rulers of this world", and "We have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God"?

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Would he be a help to us as seen fleeing from Egypt, the world typically, and arriving at the well and sitting there? Would that fit in with the thought of "the depths of God" as ready to be revealed by the Spirit?

J.T. You mean, "Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds" (Acts 7:22); and as seen sitting by the well, he is free from all that and would begin over again, learning by the Spirit. It is remarkable how that matter comes in there, because it is a ministerial book introducing the great service of the house of God of which it is said, "Moses was faithful in all his house", Hebrews 3:2. That is a most remarkable statement. How much that was needed at Corinth! Egyptian principles had to be disallowed and the principles of God furnished, as this chapter teaches: "For who of men hath known the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? thus also the things of God knows no one except the Spirit of God. But we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God, that we may know the things which have been freely given to us of God: which also we speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, communicating spiritual things by spiritual means". That is remarkable, corresponding with what you say.

Rem. Moses could discern aright, he speaks very definitely to Joshua, "It is not the sound of a shout of victory, neither is it the sound of a shout of defeat: it is the noise of alternate singing I hear", Exodus 32:18. He does not say, 'I think it is'. Is that the mark of a spiritual man arriving at a judgment and standing by it?

J.T. I am glad you mentioned that, because there is too much of that when we come to care meetings. It is a question of what is really so, not what I think

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it is; and it is possible to have certainty about anything, according to this chapter discernment about all things. Joshua was a worthy young man; but, however worthy young men are, they are liable to be defective in the use of their senses; so he mistook the character of the noise.

Rem. "For I, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged as present", 1 Corinthians 5:3. Is that a man standing by his judgment?

J.T. Exactly; it is remarkable how this epistle is based on that, "reported commonly"; common reports are not always reliable, but Paul had other reports, trustworthy reports.

E.S.H. Much must take place in us to bring us to this in judging of evil; all that inward analysis that goes on in the presence of God to bring us individually to this point.

J.T. Just so; in Moses' case clearly it was a matter of experience over against inexperience in a young man. He was an outstanding young man, but he failed in that point as over against an experienced brother. So it is well to bear in mind that experience is what young men have not much of. Discerning things is largely through experience with God and making room for the Spirit.

Ques. Is that what is meant in Hebrews: "Who, on account of habit, have their senses exercised"?

J.T. Just so, that is what is meant, by reason of habit. When they should have been teachers they needed that one should teach them. If they had habituated themselves to these things, they would have been able to teach others, but they were in a low state, and so we have the epistle as a result. If we do not habituate ourselves to the things of God, we shall be stunted and unreliable in spiritual things; and, indeed, moral things too.

Rem. Mr. Darby has a note as to "the natural man"; it is 'the man animated merely by his

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created soul, without the teaching and power of the Holy Spirit'.

J.T. The other thing is Christ in us in the last verse: "We have the mind of Christ". It is that which God can use.

P.H.H. Will you say a word in regard to this matter of experience? I was thinking of what it says of Paul, in calling over the elders of Ephesus, and later saying to them, "Take heed therefore to yourselves, and to all the flock, wherein the Holy Spirit has set you as overseers, to shepherd the assembly of God", Acts 20:28. Would it be right to link up this thought of experience you are mentioning with the thought of elders in a practical way amongst us?

J.T. Yes, indeed; that is one leading thought in it. So with Paul and Barnabas it is said, "Having chosen them elders in each assembly" (Acts 14:23); they themselves chose them; not as in Jerusalem in Acts 6, where the deacons were to be chosen from among themselves "full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom". Paul and Barnabas did not leave it in that way, they chose them elders in every assembly, meaning that they would discern what the men were; for in that very chapter Paul saw that the man who was lame, "who had never walked", "had faith to be healed", showing the power the apostles had to discern what was there.

So in selecting elders, they would exercise that power as to the men they would select; they would discern that they were suitable. They would discover these elders by their ability to discern, as shown in Paul in that chapter. Then in chapter 20, which is further on in the history of the testimony, the Holy Spirit had set them as overseers. The inference there is that the Holy Spirit has perfect first-hand knowledge of everybody; it is what is in the man that has to be discerned.

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W.H.L. Is that seen in chapter 13, where "the Holy Spirit said, Separate me now Barnabas and Saul"?

J.T. That is the same idea; where you get the Holy Spirit acting in that way, that is the point, not that He does not act in everything, but God comes down to our way of thinking. He knows us perfectly: "He who searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because he intercedes for saints according to God", Romans 8:27. So where the Spirit says, "Separate me now Barnabas and Saul", that implies, amongst other things, that the Spirit knows that the facts show that we are trustworthy men; but there was more than that needed for missionary service amongst the heathen. How few missionaries today think of it! The Holy Spirit alone knew what was needed.

W.H.L. The matter of Elymas the magician immediately follows it.

J.T. Exactly: See what they had to meet! Who could meet that man but "Saul, who also is Paul"? Well, some of us heard in recent years of magicians being dealt with in China; what has come out of that? Those who attempted it were not true. Hardly anything has come out of missionary enterprise in the last hundred years, hardly anything for the assembly. It is because of the persons being unequal to it. Paul says we are "competent, as ministers" (2 Corinthians 3:6); competent because made so, and the Holy Spirit knows exactly what men are.

Ques. Is that particularly applying to eldership?

J.T. More than anything; the question of persons being admitted to fellowship and caring for them, and so on: "The flock, wherein the Holy Spirit has set you as overseers" -- the word there is 'overseers'.

Ques. Is not the "wherein" a balancing thought? They were in the flock, but overseers there.

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J.T. Quite so; set there as the stars are set in the heavens. What obligations rest on such men! because the Holy Spirit selected them. Think of the travesty today in what is called priesting people, and ordaining bishops and the like. It is a perfect travesty of the truth, features of what is apostate displacing the Spirit of God. He does it: sets them in the flock "as overseers, to shepherd the assembly of God, which he has purchased with the blood of his own", Acts 20:28. How much enters into that! How trifling is this hierarchical condition, to say the least of it.

E.G. Spiritual discernment may lead you into very painful circumstances as seen in Acts 15. I was thinking that with spiritual discernment, as being with God, you have to be spiritually courageous to act as Paul did.

J.T. Quite so; he refused to take Mark with him. That young man had failed. If Paul had not stood his ground there, Mark would not have been what he was afterwards. Barnabas failed because he was governed by natural feelings.

Ques. Was there not spiritual discernment with Barnabas when he introduced Paul? The brethren were afraid of him.

J.T. One is ashamed to speak about Barnabas or Paul or any of the apostles; but still God does not fail to record failures so that we might see that no man in flesh and blood is to be absolutely trusted. We cannot trust a Samuel, or a Joseph, or a Moses, or a Paul, absolutely. It is that we might be balanced in our thoughts; Christ is the only Person who can be trusted absolutely. So, I believe, that Barnabas there at Antioch was discerning what even the apostles were afraid of generally; and he took him to the apostles and introduced him, gave him a status amongst them; and he never lost his judgment, though he failed. He was generally favourable to Saul

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of Tarsus, knew his measure and virtually said, He is the man for this work. He did not go back to Jerusalem and let Saul work it out by himself; he said, I will go back and help him, an excellent trait in a man.

A.W. The spirit of discernment comes out in Peter in Acts 5; he calls things by the right name, and said it was a "lie to the Holy Spirit".

J.T. Very good; and the same thing holds in regard to his remarks to the wife.

Rem. In regard to experience, a man must learn to rely wholly on the Spirit: is not experience sometimes the knowledge of principles with governing precedents, but this is the teaching of the Spirit?

J.T. One may have a reputation for wisdom, and perhaps sit down in it and become a dark guide. One, such as referred to here, goes on in the Spirit; "the spiritual" is a continuing thought.

Rem. What the man is characteristically.

J.T. Just so.

E.S.H. Spiritual persons often fail; is that to bring us round to what Christ is made to us, "wisdom from God, and righteousness, and holiness, and redemption" (1 Corinthians 1:30)? All that is in Christ.

J.T. Quite so; many get a reputation for certain things and sit down on that, as if it were a little throne, and they cease to be spiritual and are not to be trusted. One has seen that over and over again.

E.S.H. How does "Communicating spiritual things by spiritual means" come in?

J.T. Well, it is a good word; there is a note which throws light on it: 'Or',expounding:'' it means literally 'mixing or putting together'; as 'interpreting or expounding'. So it would be just as we are attempting here tonight: "communicating spiritual things by spiritual means". That is, we are recognising the Spirit of God spiritually among us, so the truth stands out. It is not relying on natural ability; that is what is meant.

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Ques. Is it right leadership, knowing things by the Spirit and then communicating those things by spiritual means?

J.T. Although Paul did conserve much and kept it back for spiritual reasons, generally the thing is communicated. If you get something from God, the thing is to communicate it, doing things in a way that is successful, mixing things, putting things together; one thing helps another thing to make it clearer. That is what marks the last days, the conversational principle of communicating spiritual things to one another. So if we have got anything, let us not keep it too long; do not keep it because you think other people will know what you know, because you will be richer after you have told them. The thing will become expanded.

P.H.H. In Matthew 13, the Lord "went into the house; and his disciples came to him, saying, Expound to us the parable of the darnel of the field". Is that in keeping with the thought of the house of God?

J.T. Quite so: "He went into the house"; and then in Luke 24 to the straying ones "He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself". I suppose the Lord compressed His instruction; ordinarily a great deal of time would be needed. What an exposition it must have been! the opening up of the types and so forth. So it shows that we may compress the truth. We may be only able to set it out in a wordy way, but it is a great thing to have the power of compression. That is what the Bible is, "The world itself could not contain the books that should be written" (John 21:25): the Lord acted on that principle of compression, I gather.

Rem. The first thing is to have the thing in its substance; the terms will follow.

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J.T. The more the brethren know a thing the more easily you can communicate, with the more confidence.

W.H.L. With Stephen it is said, "They were not able to resist the wisdom and the Spirit with which he spoke" (Acts 6:10); and then he goes over the whole history from the thought of "The God of glory" appearing to Abraham, right up to the moment in which they were.

J.T. Very good; it was a wonderful speaking in the power of the Spirit, but it corroborates what we have been saying, an outline, and yet nothing omitted for the moment.

F.V.W. Are you making a distinction between the discernment developed here by experience, and the "unction from the Holy One" (1 John 2:20) which the little children have, the intuitive knowledge from God?

J.T. The unction would have to be regarded as potentiality; you could not think that they had the knowledge of Paul, his knowledge of the mystery, what he knew. It is good to think that there is someone who knows more, however much you know, "Ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things", is the principle of the thing. It is not that the little children were all instructed as we are speaking of it now, but the unction would be the power of it rendering them independent of man: "Ye need not that any man teach you". That is, we are independent of all religious teachers today. They would shut you out; you have not got learning, as they; but John shows that you do not need them. It is not simply the Holy Spirit, but "an unction from the Holy One"; a peculiar word that means, I think, the power of permeation, so that you have the thing in a subjective way.

Rem. It is important for the ministers to recognise that the saints have that power.

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J.T. That is it; in these meetings our principle is the "unction from the Holy One", which is the opposite to man's mind, which is corrupt, even though it be a religious mind.

So, in regard to Luke 8, one thought it would be well to have it before us, young people are to be in our minds, kept in the circle of spirituality, kept where it is; so the Lord had this child in mind in healing the woman, and in His mind they are linked together. What she needed was transparency; that was what she came to, and she is called "daughter". She is recognised as in the family as a sister, a transparent person, who henceforth will not conceal things that should be known. It is a quality needed in the care meetings and all the meetings -- transparency. The power came out of Christ and entered into her; she is of Christ. It is not simply light, but power for healing; so her spiritual condition now is that she is with Christ; she is in the family; He says to her, "Daughter".

Now the time comes when He should help Jairus; so it says, "While he was yet speaking, comes someone from the ruler of the synagogue, saying to him, Thy daughter is dead". Somebody says, It is all over, there is no hope. There is no idea of the power that is in Christ to deal with the condition of children. There is power in Christ to deal with children as well as with grown-ups; He even laid His hands on infants and took them in His arms; in another case. He leaves them with others, but He caressed them.

This person who came from Jairus' house had no thought of this at all. He came from a house where people were occupied sentimentally: what else could he say but the natural feeling about that? He was respectful about the teacher, this someone who came, "Thy daughter is dead; do not trouble the teacher", as if the Lord could not do any more, you know. That is a solemn thing, because what underlies all

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this Sunday-school business is that you can do better than what Scripture indicates; it is a modern idea. So he shuts the Lord out as if He could not do anything; but the Lord hearing it, says, "Fear not: only believe, and she shall be made well".

So the head of the house has to come to believe; without that the Lord can do nothing. The messenger was unbelieving; what else could you expect from these sentimental things that go on? "Only believe, and she shall be made well"; all that you have in mind for your daughter can come about, but faith is the basis. "And when he came to the house he suffered no one to go in but Peter and John and James and the father of the child and the mother". That is, all that lay behind this unbelief in the messenger must be dealt with; it is in the way, it is interfering with the spiritual work. A state of unbelief in a household is begotten by these things. We learn from Matthew that there were flute-players, but here, "All were weeping and lamenting her. But he said, Do not weep, for she has not died, but sleeps. And they derided him". Think of that state that derided the Son of God! They not only did not have faith but derided Him.

Over against that, He displaces all those people and brings in Peter and John and James. He puts John before James here, and includes the father and the mother of the child. "But he, having turned them all out, and taking hold of her hand, cried saying, Child, arise. And her spirit returned, and immediately she rose up; and he commanded something to eat to be given to her".

It seems to me that that is a remarkable narrative by the Spirit of God as entering into our times in regard to the young. It is not the literal age we go by, but the spiritual state, because a person may prevent his age being despised by growth spiritually;

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and that growth is contingent upon the parents and a refusal in the houses of what causes unbelief.

E.S.H. Our faith is often tested; there was no faith in this messenger, but the Lord delaying to answer our desires often tests faith; so if we do not continue in faith we may not expect the Lord to come in. It is contingent upon our continuing in faith.

J.T. There is the man first: He has provided him; and between the time that the tidings of the illness of Jairus' daughter reaches Him and His arriving at the house He provides the woman. If you want the children, you must provide the man and then the woman, assembly conditions, then the children.

Rem. So that would be really the father and mother.

J.T. That is the idea; the child is brought into the assembly. These conditions would be spiritual; the child would be awakening to a realm of faith and spirituality.

A.H.H. The Lord does it here, but He would help us to do it by ourselves.

J.T. That is the principle; that is how the work of God proceeds today. We may provide for the young people. The Lord was going to raise the child, but in the meantime He deals with the woman.

A.H.H. Things are inclined to be brought in on the line of doubt.

J.T. Yes, because the children may hear their fathers and mothers criticising the brethren at the table. It is most important to keep out of their way that which would cause scepticism.

F.I. These were brought in touch with Christ, and as we are formed under the hand of the Spirit in the hands of Christ we are able to give evidence of this; and when a case comes forward for reception, there is that with us that would answer to them.

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J.T. That is the idea; so the Sunday-school principle is acting the wrong way. The Lord began with the man, then the woman and then the girl. You can have Sunday-schools without assembly conditions; the thing is to have grown-up conditions, the man, "sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and in his right mind"; the woman has become transparent, not concealing things; she is called "daughter". You have got faith, the article is in that person; then the child is brought into these things.

A.W. Jonathan "told not his father", 1 Samuel 14:1. He refrained from what was natural and moved spiritually.

J.T. That is right. If we went round and told the fathers today, those that Saul represents, they would soon put us out, obliterate us. We do not want to tell them anything.

These are the very best, the workmanship of God Himself is there; the responsible element is really related to the spiritual thought.

E.S.H. This is how divine Persons are working in our localities?

J.T. I have often thought of this chapter as providing the composition of a local company, the man and woman and child.

Rem. So the father and mother would represent elements permanently there; and would Peter and John and James represent those whom the Lord may bring in to give wealth to the position?

J.T. Well, just so, spirituality.

F.H.H. The Lord "suffered no one to go in but Peter and John and James ...".

J.T. In what a state in regard of evil that company was! but what a different element is brought in, and the child is brought into that. In Mark we get the very words the Lord used, "Talitha koumi, which is, interpreted, Damsel, I say to thee, Arise" (chapter 5: 41).

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The words the Lord used show He did not despise the young person.

E.S.H. We might well expect the young people to come in at the age of twelve years.

J.T. Where would you get a child like her raised up in such an atmosphere?

W.H.L. "Immediately she rose up".

J.T. Just so. The Lord "enjoined them to tell no one what had happened". Do not make table talk all around; do not make much of young persons. If a Chinaman or a Frenchman is converted he is talked of everywhere, and in almost every case he does not come to anything. Do not make too much of him.

Ques. Is there a link in that the woman had the flux of blood twelve years and the child was twelve years old? Even in a literal twelve-years-old child you would look for the spirituality that would come from an experience like that.

J.T. The child is not to be despised: "Let no one despise thy youth", 1 Timothy 4:12. The person who is young prevents the despising because of what is of God in himself. So the Lord would say, I call her "Damsel"; that word is carried down the ages to us, the very word the Lord used.

A.W. Does her spirit's coming again mean that she is capable of responding to ministrations?

J.T. Quite so; "Immediately she rose up".

Ques. Is there some special food to be given to young people? "He commanded something to eat to be given to her".

J.T. Oh, there is; John's epistle is the guide to that; he feeds the young people and the young men and fathers, and it is in the same letter, the same food. They "all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink", 1 Corinthians 10:3, 4. The youngest child in the wilderness had the same amount

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of manna provided as the father; they were taken on potentially as men.

Rem. It is said sometimes that there is not much for the children at the readings; why is that?

J.T. Well, we are reminded of these things. We have in this chapter, the man, the woman, and the child; the idea of the man is there superabundantly in the Lord Himself and the apostles; the man is there: the greatest spirituality you could get is there.

F.I. We should not say, There is nothing for the children.

J.T. No, indeed! If we were to ask the children what they had in the reading, perhaps sometimes we should get a surprise. The children discern more than you thought they did.

F.I. What about the scripture in Galatians?

J.T. There is not much time, but the thought of the spiritual is in mind for restoration: "If even a man be taken in some fault". It is not the fault overtaking him, but he is taken in it. There is no question about it, it is there. Your mind about him is to restore him; "Ye who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering thyself lest thou also be tempted". So that restoration is a feature that should be always with us, but it is connected here with spirituality.

Ques. The man gathering sticks in Numbers was caught in it; those that found him "brought him unto Moses and Aaron" (Numbers 15:33); is that the thought of bringing all the spirituality possible to bear on him?

J.T. Quite so; to get the mind of God about him.

Rem. There it was declared by Jehovah what should be done, but the bringing to Moses and Aaron would be doing all that was possible.

J.T. Quite so. In Numbers 16, we have the great rebellion of Korah, Dathan and Abiram, and Moses and Aaron fall on their faces; God would have consumed

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them all, and Moses urged Aaron to take the censer and run into the camp, "And he stood between the dead and the living; and the plague was stayed". Well, that is grace, you know, you do not want to lose anyone.

F.I. I suppose the thought of restoring would give the idea that the thing is broken; there is damage done in relation to the position in which the man stands. There is a note in the New Translation that the thought of restore is 'mending', as in "mending their nets", Matthew 4:21.

J.T. That is the word. It is a trait of the early apostles as the Lord called them, that they were doing this, they were mending their nets.

F.I. I was thinking that it comes in in relation not only to the person himself, but to the company he is associated with.

J.T. Exactly; there is a great damage done to the whole company, and as reinstating him in his position, there is a better man.

Rem. The note refers to 1 Corinthians 1:10, 'Where all the members have each its own place, or make a whole; or, if broken, are restored to one complete whole, as "mending", Matthew 4:21'. That would confirm what you said, damage done to the whole.

J.T. Well, we have a "Repairer of the breaches", Isaiah 58:12. If a brother is taken in a fault, there is no question about it; even then you recover him if possible; but it is spiritual men that are needed, because unspiritual people are apt to have a mere natural conscience that would not restore him at all.

P.H.H. Have we an illustration supremely in the woman in John 8 taken in the thing? The Lord discerned it, and, in principle, restored her.

J.T. Quite so; He was going to die for her; He wrote on the ground. He would not condemn her, He was there to save her.

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P.H.H. I was wondering whether this feature of restoring or mending is to keep pace with our activity in the glad tidings; in the passage referred to in Matthew there are those two brothers "casting a net", and then immediately the Lord comes on to the other two who were "mending their nets". Would those two features be subjectively parallel?

J.T. Quite so; what is the actual reading?

P.H.H. "And going on thence he saw other two brothers, James the son of Zebedee and John his brother, in the ship with Zebedee their father, mending their trawl-nets, and he called them", Matthew 4:21.

J.T. You must not forget "Zebedee their father"; that is a further thought from what we have with Peter and Andrew -- "their father". I believe the family influence is needed, the father would be concerned about the mending part: they were doing it because they were with the father. Young people are not so concerned about mending their affairs in business. I believe we learn from that; the father does not want anything to go wrong. It is a business scene, the father and sons working together.

The father would say, We do not want to lose that brother: he belongs to the system, Christ died for him. There is no question about his guilt, but we want to save him. The spiritual man would stress that side and would not trust natural conscience at all. There are those who would condemn a man for some gross thing but let off a blasphemer. The natural conscience is absolutely untrustworthy.

F.I. Was that not the case with the man in 1 Corinthians?

J.T. That is what Paul says, "For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers" (chapter 4: 15).

Rem. So he did not overlook the thought of party spirit, he dwells on that at length.

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J.T. Quite so. This is an important feature, the power to rightly value a christian and save him at all costs, not at the expense of truth, but to have this saving element, "Ye which are spiritual".

Rem. So excision is the last resource.

J.T. Quite so, and even then it is to save the man.

F.V.W. Paul, descending, fell on Eutychus (Acts 20:10), is that the act of a father?

J.T. Well, it is going the full limit; he might have sent some remedy. Isaiah said, "Let them take a lump of figs, and lay it for a plaster upon the boil, and he shall recover", Isaiah 38:21. That was a direction. Paul did not do that; it was a spiritual touch, going to the full limit of saving him.

Rem. This is so that you do not have to withdraw.

J.T. You might have to do it to restore him; any way it looks as if he could be restored, "Ye which are spiritual, restore such an one".

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"LOVE AMONGST YOURSELVES"

John 13:35; Jude 20, 21, 23; 1 John 2:27

J.T. What is in mind is the word 'yourselves' which occurs in each of the scriptures read, according to the New Translation: not that the Holy Spirit would occupy us with ourselves -- save as in the sense of these passages; He would occupy us with Christ.

John 13:35 reads, "By this shall all know that ye are disciples of mine, if ye have love amongst yourselves", directing us thus to ourselves, that this feature might mark us in our localities. In Jude, it is that we might keep ourselves in the love of God. The same thing is stressed in John's epistle, "And yourselves, the unction which ye have received from him abides in you", the word is peculiarly stressed in John's epistle (1 John 2:27). In John 13, we have the model before us, "As I have loved you, that ye also love one another", the Lord having in mind that His own should thus be self-sustaining, as there was the evidence of love amongst them.

One has been impressed in moving about lately, with the fact that meetings in the rural districts tend to die out and disappear. Visitations from those able to help are few, but these scriptures show how such are to be sustained: love never fails, and as having it amongst ourselves, we should come behind in nothing, but there should be edification and growth.

E.J.McB. Would you say that the peculiar difficulties come from the outside, but the preserving is from the inside?

J.T. Yes. The love is seen in all, especially in those who take part.

E.J.McB. So whether we have gift or not, we have what will preserve.

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Rem. "If ye have love amongst yourselves" is linked with it.

J.T. John's gospel has in mind what can be seen. The gospel opens with "Come and see", and again in chapter 4, the woman says, "Come, see a man".

Ques. Is this really what we are?

J.T. Yes, as formed after the pattern of Christ.

Rem. The saints take on features which the world must recognise.

J.T. Yes; you can ask them to come and see, not only to hear, but to see. Nathanael comes under the eye of the Lord when under the fig tree. Philip says to him, "We have found him of whom Moses wrote ... Jesus ... who is from Nazareth", and Nathanael replied, "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?". As brethren today, we are under great reproach, but we would say as Philip did here, "Come and see". Nathanael began to move from that very point. An outside brother, as we might say, one from the systems, comes to see what there is, and in coming he is under the Lord's eye, as Nathanael was under the fig tree. If he desires to break bread, it must be as having seen something. There was something there with Nathanael.

A.M. Is glory connected with this aspect of love (verse 31)?

J.T. That is the setting of this scripture. Love is always glorious; certainly to have love amongst ourselves is.

E.J.McB. A person may not see much the first time they come, but they feel the atmosphere, and they return.

J.T. "In him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light appears in darkness, and the darkness apprehended it not". We need spirituality to see.

Ques. Is it like 1 Corinthians 14?

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J.T. Just so. Chapter 13 presents the way of surpassing excellence, the way of love; love is the main thought of the chapter. Then when that is settled and understood, gift follows in chapter 14. Love is the first thing, then the gift of prophecy, and coming under the prophetic word, the man is convicted and confesses that God is among you of a truth.

Rem. Love is of God.

J.T. Yes; it is a relative term; all His ways are love. Love is in us, too; a brother does things, and it shows he has love.

Ques. Love is concerned with what is spiritual?

J.T. The brethren are learning to love, especially in assembly; they love to be together.

E.J.McB. Loving much.

Ques. Is it the filling out of "a new commandment"?

J.T. Yes. It is filled out in the epistle in Christ and in us, since the Spirit came. He loved His own to the end. Christianity is the new commandment.

Rem. It flows out amongst ourselves as knowing what it is to be in His bosom.

J.T. Yes; that is special to John. Christianity itself is a speciality. John had the place of the disciple whom Jesus loved. Peter was not that. Why should not the Lord have specials? Generalities mean that He looks on us all alike, but a special is different.

H.E.S. John knew how to appropriate the Lord's love.

J.T. Yes, and thus he became lovable.

H.E.S. John drew nearer than Peter.

E.J.McB. Hence he got such remarkable revelations.

J.T. John was peculiarly used to bring out this love as having this special place.

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E.J.McB. The Lord wanted to communicate something special, and looks for those near enough to Him to receive it.

J.T. Yes; He has great need of such as John. He was reliable.

Ques. Is this feature seen in Joseph and Jacob?

J.T. Yes; the vest of many colours speaks of what is inward, not merely official. Joseph was distressed by the evil communications of his brethren. Abigail's young men were like that; they judged their master as a man of Belial. It is important for young people to have this judgment of what is evil. The house of Chloe in the New Testament, stands for this element; and Samuel, who did not talk, but who was trustworthy.

A.M. There must be subjection, as in Ephesians and John?

J.T. Yes; good. In Ephesians the persons in a subordinate relation are addressed first; they are exhorted to be subject, even as the assembly is subjected to the Christ, not that they ought to be that, but they are put there, in a place of subordination. Satan would get in to make us insubject, but God is fortifying us against it.

Ques. Would the measure in which we love one another be the measure of our love to Christ?

J.T. Yes; He laid down His life for us, so we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren; that is love.

Ques. As absorbing love, we express it?

J.T. Yes; another statement of John is, "Beloved, if God has so loved us, we also ought to love one another". He uses great skill. Jude also uses the title 'Beloved', as well as Paul and Peter and John, but it does not fit unless I have it, and am expressive of it. It becomes glorious, and is a reflection of Christ Himself. These men used parental expressions in addressing the saints. If John says,

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'Beloved', it affects one, and thus we have love amongst ourselves.

H.E.S. Peter speaks of "Our beloved brother Paul".

J.T. In ministering brothers it promotes good feeling.

E.J.McB. It shows Peter had no bad feeling against Paul.

J.T. Paul was greater in the second epistle to the Corinthians than in the first; and Peter also in his second letter. These second letters show they were going on themselves.

Rem. Aquila and Priscilla staked their neck for Paul.

J.T. Very good; that chapter, Romans 16, is full of love. Twenty times over he uses the word 'salute' which shows respect, and love is not known without it.

Ques. Would you say that meetings petering out show lack of love?

J.T. I heard of a meeting coming together to discuss disbanding; it was a question of finance, but love was there, and they are still going on. It appeared as if they could not continue, like a ship at sea which may be at an angle of forty-five degrees, but it rights itself. Faith and hope are great, but love is greater. It was never seen till Christ died; it must be attested, before we can know it.

Rem. Love was behind Paul's rebuke to Peter in Galatians, but love worked as seen in Peter's second epistle, where he speaks of him as "our beloved brother Paul".

J.T. Yes; Peter had gained through it. He speaks in his second letter of "the excellent glory" and that refers to love: "Such a voice being uttered to him by the excellent glory. This is my beloved Son". It is always Peter first, then John.

Rem. Personality linked with lovability.

J.T. Yes. A father is entitled to speak of himself, children ought to learn from their father.

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E.C.M. "If even in abundantly loving you, I should be less loved", 2 Corinthians 12:15.

J.T. In his epistle Jude is contemplating the apostasy; he had meant to write of "our common salvation" but turns aside to speak of other things. Personal love runs through the epistle, as well as the love of God which goes through to the end, "Keep yourselves in the love of God", is a continuous state, not only when at the meetings, but always.

E.J.McB. It is our orbit.

J.T. Very good; that word fits in well; you are always there.

E.J.McB. This was written when things were very weak.

J.T. Yes; Cain, Balaam, and Core are mentioned as marking the apostasy. The prayer meeting on Monday comes in: "Praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God".

E.J.McB. Will you say a word on "praying in the Holy Spirit"?

J.T. That brings up the question of the Spirit. Some believers have not the Spirit through bad teaching, and other things. The Spirit comes to those who have received the word of the truth. It searches and adjusts them, but as believing that, they are sealed. But praying in the Holy Spirit shows that we have received the word of the truth. We may pray in words, but praying in the Holy Spirit shows unction.

E.J.McB. It carries with it what belongs to the Spirit.

J.T. Yes; we are in the current of the Spirit, the whole field; it is universal.

Ques. Our prayer meetings would take on a distinct tone.

J.T. Yes; they are usually very happy where this state is known, even in a little way, keeping ourselves in the love of God. Many stay away from

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the prayer meetings, but God says He will make us glad in His house of prayer. Solomon's prayer was followed by the entrance of the glory. Daniel, too, is an example.

E.C.M. Paul and Silas in prison were praying and praising God with singing.

J.T. Very good; you get a suggestion of all the meetings we have at that time; prayer, praise, preaching and ministry. They had a wonderful time.

E.J.McB. And a wonderful work came out of it.

J.T. Yes; the jailor must have been a wonderful brother. The brethren are there as dignified; they went to see them.

In John's epistle, we have the unction: the Spirit is teaching here. In Jude, the testimony is marked by prayer, but here it is teaching, as in a reading.

Ques. Why is this addressed to "little children"?

J.T. John views the saints in three grades, fathers, young men and little children. This passage has been used to justify Sunday-schools; but it is one letter to all and shows that all the little children ought to be brought into meetings like this. Young christians are apt to make much of men, good gospel preachers, and the like, but the apostle here stresses the Holy Spirit as the unction, and the holiness that accompanies the unction from the Holy One (verse 20). It is potential, and shuts out man and his teaching. Terrible things are put before the young today.

E.J.McB. As having the unction, infidel thoughts would be detected.

A.M. The teaching of the Spirit helps to early discrimination. There are the words, "Taught by the Spirit", 1 Corinthians 2:13.

E.J.McB. 'Yourselves' is a remarkable word.

J.T. Yes; it does not lead to boastfulness, but leads to what is amongst ourselves, not to puff us up, but to make us independent of men. In this case they are rendered independent of this world's learning.

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Paul would say. No one can understand the things of God but the spiritual man. We have the mind (thinking faculty) of Christ.

E.J.McB. The ability to work things out as He did.

J.T. Yes; it is a great preservative. We see in John's gospel how He met men.

Ques. What about proving the spirits (1 John 4:1)?

J.T. A very important matter because of the spread of spiritism. It is very wicked; it got in in Corinth, so that a man might be there speaking by an evil spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3). The apostle says, "Ye were led away to dumb idols in whatever way ye might be led. I give you therefore to know, that no one ... can say Lord Jesus, unless in the power of the Holy Spirit".

Ques. The man in John 9 came in on the line of John's epistle?

J.T. It contemplates a man whose eyes are opened. It involved the deity of Christ for his eyes to be opened. He went and washed and came seeing. He reacted to the light; he was obedient, and came seeing. It was a question of the works of God. Every time the man answered a question there was an advance.

Ques. Does the anointing increase?

J.T. You can see there is advance with the man. Stephen is said to be full of the Spirit; one who could not be resisted; they were unable to resist the spirit in which he spoke. There is moral glory at the end; increase in that way.

E.J.McB. It develops in becoming more spiritual.

J.T. Yes, it is "from glory to glory" as the works of God are manifested. We are not to be taken up with one line of service only.

Ques. Why the word 'unction' in regard to the little ones?

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J.T. The stress is on holiness; they were not learning with the natural mind. The knowledge of the Holy is understanding. As Peter says, "We have believed and known that thou art the Holy One of God".

Ques. Is 'unction' the same as 'anointing'?

J.T. Yes, but it is more permeating.

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THE ECONOMY AND THE SERVICE OF GOD

1 Corinthians 8:5, 6; John 3:35; John 10:14, 15; John 17:26

J.T. The verses in Corinthians deal with fundamentals, the divine order in the assembly resulting from God having entered into the economy in which we are, the Father, the Son and the Spirit. These verses in chapter 8 are linked on with verses 24 and 28 in chapter 15 showing the end in the mind of God in the economy: "Then the end, when he gives up the kingdom to him who is God and Father; when he shall have annulled all rule and all authority and power" (verse 24), and "But when all things shall have been brought into subjection to him, then the Son also himself shall be placed in subjection to him who put all things in subjection to him, that God may be all in all" (verse 28). These two verses give the end in mind. Chapter 8 contemplates idolatry around us. In view of the service of God we have one God stressed, the Father, and one Lord, Jesus Christ. Of God it is, "Of whom all things, and we for him"; and of the Lord, "by whom are all things, and we by him". The position is therefore plainly defined in the economy, that the Father, God, is supreme; the Son, the Mediator and Administrator of all, is Lord.

Then in John's gospel, the Lord's place is confirmed and enlarged upon, based on love, "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand". Chapter 10 shows how He is working things out as thus delivered to Him. Chapter 17 contemplates the end in mind corresponding with what we have in Corinthians. "I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known; that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them", I think we need help as to how the service

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of God proceeds, how God is supreme and viewed as the object of the service; and how Christ as Lord effectuates everything, "By whom are all things, and we by him". He has brought us into existence as in the service and John shows how all is in love. The Father loves the Son. The Son by Himself is an object of worship: "He is thy Lord, and worship thou him" (Psalm 45:11); but in the service properly, God is the object of worship. God is finally seen in 1 Corinthians 15 as God, and the Son is in subjection, maintaining everything for God. Things are given to be in His hand; they are never taken out of His hand. He takes up a place of subjection so that God may be all in all and in a moral sense; thus God is reached in the assembly.

C.E.B. Is there a difference between "we for him" and "we by him"?

J.T. Yes, there is, the prepositions are not the same, "We for him" means we are for God: "of him, and through him, and for him are all things", "By" is in regard of the Son. The Son effectuates everything and, of course, He is God, too, but here it is, "There is one God, the Father, of whom all things", and that is the source. Then "we for him", that is, our existence has that in mind, that we are for God, and that existence is brought about by the Son, "One Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things and we by him".

C.E.B. Would this greatly help us in relation to the service of God?

J.T. Well, that is the point. We are to come definitely to the Lord as on our side in the service. Viewed as Lord in the early part of the service, He is an object of worship, "He is thy Lord, and worship thou him". But the ground of service properly reached as on our side is with Christ in the midst of the assembly. He is not singing to Himself, He is singing to God. We should be there with Him.

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Ques. Would you say a little as to that, not singing to Himself?

J.T. In the Supper we sing to Him rightly, because it is the Lord's supper, not Christ's supper. It is a question of His dominical position, and we rightly sing to Him. But as we enter on the ground of service intelligently, He is on our side. He is not alongside the Father, to be worshipped with the Father. He is on our side, singing to the Father.

Ques. With regard to the thought of the Father, would you say a word as to the setting in Corinthians, "To us there is one God, the Father"?

J.T. It is to bring out the position of our service, the public side of it. There are two sides, the public and the secret or inward side. The public side is, "There is one God". As it says expressly here, "Whether in heaven or on earth, (as there are gods many, and lords many)". That is to bring out the position of christianity as to one God. So at Corinth we might find a christian assembly, a Jewish synagogue and an idol temple in the same street. One visits each place. He comes to the christian assembly and he finds the true God there. The others have not got the true God. So it is a very important test in that regard as to our public position. One comes and sees for himself that the true God is there.

S.C. Does the word "we for him" connect with the opening of the epistle, "the assembly of God", what is for God in the place?

J.T. Quite so. Whatever we are for God, Christ has effected it. Then He has effected that too what we are as brethren, so that we are by Him. He has brought us in before God.

J.W.S. He has brought us into the place of sonship.

J.T. Yes, quite so, that is the supreme thought. Whatever we are for God, He has effected it.

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J.W.S. While God is the originator and source of everything, the Lord Jesus seems to be the One by whom He brings everything into being and effectuates it.

J.T. That is true. It is Christ as Man, too. Christ was the One who created everything. But as things are now in the economy into which God has come, it is Christ as Man who has effected everything.

J.W.S. Then as to prayer: do we address the Father in prayer, for instance, in the prayer meeting when speaking of His interests, or would you address the Lord in connection with service?

J.T. I would address both, but it is well to be reminded that the scriptures which indicate that the Lord is to be prayed to are much fewer than those referring to God. Scripture attests that the Lord is to be prayed to, but God is more the object than the Son.

C.E.B. Does the understanding of the economy help as to addressing divine Persons?

J.T. I think so. See what it says here, "one God, the Father". It is the service of God, and the public position is that, God's assembly. Individual divine Persons are appearing in it; but two of Them have taken, for the carrying out of divine purposes, subordinate positions; and we ought to learn from that, and make God all-supreme. The Lord's supper is exceptional because it is said to be His. So it gives Him His place as Lord at the beginning of our service, but He is set for God. He is thinking of God, because that is His side of the matter, "By whom are all things", so that the tenor of Scripture is to bring out how He effects things, we by Him.

R.D. You have mentioned the Lord being on our side in the service of God. In that way, is praise linked with God? Is that a portion for God?

J.T. That is the way it is said, "In the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises", Hebrews 2:12. And, "Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me", Psalm 50:23.

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Rem. "No one comes to the Father unless by me", John 14:6.

J.T. Just so. That is all mediatorial. You can see how it works out. The Father loves the Son and has given all things to be in His hand -- that is the position. Then chapter 4 shows how it operates. The woman at the well affords an opportunity to the Lord to show how He produces worshippers, so that with the woman her existence spiritually is by Christ. The whole gospel is on those lines.

Ques. With regard to the last question, would Psalm 22 help, "Thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel"?

J.T. That is what Christ says to Him on the cross. He has taken that matter on; "In the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises". This has often been spoken of. It is needful to have it before us more and more so that we may understand the economy in which we are set, each of us owes his existence to Christ, what He has effected for God. All is for God.

C.E.B. Reference has been made to Hebrews 2:12, "I will declare thy name to my brethren; in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises". Is that the Lord who is singing there?

J.T. Yes, certainly. It is quoted from Psalm 22. That is the point that He is working out. He spoke about worshippers to the woman in John 4. He did not speak of her as one yet; He has in mind that she is to be one. We often remark as to why He spoke to her of such an exalted truth. She says, "I perceive that thou art a prophet", and I think chapter 6 touches on Psalm 22, because Peter says, "We have believed and known that thou art the holy one of God". That is an allusion to Aaron (Psalm 106:16). That enters into all that follows and what preceded it, too, Peter's discerning that He is the Holy One of God. Exodus 21 shows Christ typically as taking the

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ground of a bondman on the principle of love, He would operate on the principle of love, loving Master, wife and children. That is the lowly place that He took, but it is in love. Chapter 28 shows that He is clothed with dignity in the priesthood. He is the bondman, but clothed with dignity in the priesthood. He is clothed with garments of glory and beauty. We have to understand that in the assembly, but what underlies it is, He is the Holy One of God, He is the Priest. He does not sing to Himself; the Father, God, is in mind.

R.D. The Lord as on our side is moving in connection with praise going up to God.

J.T. He is not on our side in the Supper itself. It is the Lord's supper, and what we are as His brethren does not apply in this part of the service. As He takes on that line as God's Son, we are also sons, and all is for God now. That is where the brethren, one fears, are defective. The entrance on the second side of the service is so uncertain in many instances. The Supper properly is for the Lord. That is, He has His own share in us. He certainly has rights in us, including marital relations with us. He has all these rights, the rights of His love, but as He comes in and is apprehended, it is in relation to us, that is the assembly as such, and He looks for response in that relation. The Canticles fit in there instructively and there is no reference to God. It is all the feminine and masculine speakers. The Lord's supper is to the Lord, but when that part is over, He indicates that we are related to Him as His brethren, and we are related to God as His sons, and He is a Son, too. It is then that the thing turns; we get on the line of the service of God properly. That is where I observe great defect among the brethren, how to distinguish that particular juncture, "One Lord", it is instrumental; "by" is instrumental, He is effecting things for God.

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G.E. What link would the covenant have on this line of which you are speaking?

J.T. It comes in early. It comes in in the cup. It includes every stage or growth in the company. The covenant is usually found in relation to Jewish christians and it has in mind to deliver us from judaism, that sort of thing. Drinking is enjoyment, satisfaction, so that we go on happily and freely. It has no place in the family side, the Father and the Son, but it helps us to go on to that side of the service.

C.E.B. You spoke of marital affections. Does that come in after the covenant?

J.T. Before and after. In the type of Zipporah, her father brought her to Moses before the covenant was made. Zipporah comes in in Exodus 18. We get in Romans that we may, be to Another. That comes in early, that is a collective thought.

Ques. Considering our defective apprehension of these things, would it help us to see that the Lord would not lead us back after addressing the Father to address Himself?

J.T. Never. Hymns are difficult, because they mix things. The writers did not discern the things which we mention now. The Lord would help us to discriminate in that. The idea of priesthood is to do that, to discriminate, to lay aside for the moment what does not fit this part of the service.

Rem. You have used the word 'oscillation'. One has found the tendency to this in oneself.

J.T. The Lord is helping the brethren very much, but still it is difficult. The crucial part is when we move on to God. The end is with God. God and Father and finally it is God, God all in all.

Rem. So that we should reach to that in spirit now.

J.T. That is the thought, the spirit of adoption. We speak to God and the Father, then we ought to proceed on these lines and keep to that. God represents

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the Deity properly, and Lord represents authority, lordship; and therefore, when we come to the service, the Lord has brought us in before God because we are for Him. We are for God. Obviously, therefore, the end in the meeting is that, and the Lord is working for it. We should be clear in our minds so as not to baffle each other by our thanksgivings or our hymns.

S.C. What is the thought in Ephesians 2:18, "For through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father"? What is the thought in "through him"?

J.T. That means His priestly office. Instrumentality is there again. Through Him, we both, that is Jews and gentiles, have access by one Spirit to the Father. The Son and the Spirit are subservient. We draw near to God by the Son and the Spirit.

Ques. I would like some help as to the Father. You referred to the passage in Corinthians, "One God, the Father", as in the public setting. Would you say a word as to the Father as presented in John?

J.T. Until we come to John 20, He is never called our Father. He is the Father: "The Father loves the Son". He is known as the Father, and that runs through the gospel, until chapter 20. The Lord calls Him His Father, and of course that is the secret of being the Father. The general position in the Deity is the Father, and Christ calls Him His Father in John; whereas in Matthew the saints call Him Father, but that refers to the kingdom and affairs down here. John is aiming at the eternal state of things -- chapter 20, "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God". That is the eternal state of things. That does not refer to the ordinary affairs down here at all.

G.E. In your reference to the Father in John, are you thinking that John opens up the economy before bringing us into it?

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J.T. Yes. The economy is clearly set out. In John's gospel, chapter 20 is the change of position in Christ risen and ascended, in principle. He is our Father in chapter 20, whereas Paul constantly brings in that He is our Father. In Matthew He is our Father, but not in John until we come to chapter 20. John is dealing with the spiritual side of things and how the economy culminates in that. The economy never ceases really. Eternal relations never stop.

Rem. "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father", John 14:9.

J.T. It is all working up to that, so that the knowledge of the Father is what the Lord is speaking of. He brings in the Father. "The Father seeks such as his worshippers". Not your Father, but the Father. He is His Father, but the Father in the Deity because He is not incarnate. The Lord says, "The Father judgeth no man". That shows it is a limited thought. The Father was perfectly revealed in the Son. He is bringing to their attention what the Father is.

G.E. I was thinking, with regard to the great thought of sonship which is in view, that we may be clear that we are sons from the divine side, but not have reached it on the moral side.

J.T. Quite so. The moral side comes first and that is what the woman in John 4 represents. If you preach the gospel, you take that ground; you should be sent, too. The Lord says, "I will make you fishers of men". Moral questions have to be raised with us. The Lord had spoken of His Person to her: "If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that says to thee, Give me to drink". "I who speak to thee am he". She does not speak of Him on that ground. It is on the moral side: "Come, see a man who told me all things I had ever done: is not he the Christ?" They were affected by what she said. It would be light in their souls. Paul keeps to that.

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He says, 'I am the chief of sinners'. Yet he was the sent one.

Ques. Would you say a little as to how far we move as regards hymns in the service? "Having sung a hymn they went out to the mount of Olives". Can we move, in accordance with our hymns of praise, to higher ground?

J.T. Quite so. The point there is mutual feeling. The Lord is there, but He is not mentioned. It is a point of power in the meeting when we are able to move together. He is there, of course, but He is not mentioned. Luke would indicate He took them there, but in Mark and Matthew it does not say so. It is the mutual thought which is very precious in the service of God. In the Lord's supper, the tendency is to bring us into mutual feeling with one another so that we move together in affection and intelligence, so that the first mention of praise, according to Jehovah's own account, is "The morning stars sang together", Job 38:7. That is, we move together. The Lord had them with Him; they sang a hymn and went to the mount of Olives, and they are moving together. One of the most important things is to be together in the service. That makes room for the Lord because He has got us together and now He may, as it were, sing in the midst of the assembly. He attaches the idea of the assembly to that. The mount of Olives is not Jerusalem. The Lord's supper is in Jerusalem, but the service of God is out of it, it is on heavenly ground. I mean the service of God in the spiritual side.

F.J.A. Is the thought of the Father connected with resurrection or ascension? It is in connection with "I ascend", that He speaks of "My Father and your Father".

J.T. That is right, "I ascend unto my Father". He says to Mary, "I have not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren and say to them,

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I ascend to my Father and your Father". That is the position now in John 20. There, the Lord is entirely on our side, and after that hymns and thanksgivings that bring the Lord in as an object of worship only confuse. All these chapters lead up to the 17th, where the Lord says, "I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known; that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them" (verse 26). That is the finished thought. That is how matters are to stand.

Rem. 'Every knee to Jesus bending' does not go quite far enough.

J.T. That is out of place in the part of the service of which we are speaking now. People might think that is defining things too extremely, but on the principle of priesthood there is that careful defining. The priest knows exactly what fits, so the book of Leviticus does not come before Exodus, because God is to be known in the sanctuary. Then as regards what we bring, the priest is there to see that what is done is according to God and governed by right principles.

J.B. In what place does headship come in?

J.T. The headship of Christ is a great general thought, not only applicable to the Lord's service. God has given "him to be head over all things to the assembly, which is His body". But then He is Head of His body in Colossians. So according to Colossians, headship must come in and it can only be operative, as far as I see, collectively, when we have reached the mutual feeling, the mutual side, where we move together. The Lord can move us all inwardly.

J.B. I was thinking of the transference from priesthood to headship.

J.T. Priesthood always remains while we are down here; headship is a further thought, it would mean we have come to the thought of the organism in a practical way. It is represented in the bread,

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but we come into it in a practical way in spiritual power. They sang a hymn and went. The Lord is in the midst; He is not doing anything, but they are moving. The thing is, there, that they are going in the right direction.

C.E.B. With regard to the priest, do we need the priest to sustain us in this service?

J.T. We do, "His left hand would be under my head, and his right hand embrace me", Song of Songs 8:3. That is early, but you feel the need of it all the time, and as long as we are down here in flesh and blood. The more spiritual you are, the less you are conscious of the need of it.

Ques. Is that limited to down here? I was thinking of what you have quoted, "His left hand would be under my head".

J.T. We shall not need that when we are perfected. It is while we are down here that we need that, but I do not think priesthood will go on. The likeness of His body of glory, raised in power, is what is in view. We have little conception of what we shall be, "When he shall appear, we shall be like him", 1 John 3:2.

G.E. You would say what is mediatorial will go on.

J.T. I think so. Everything must depend on Christ as Man, a system taken up in Him where He is the centre of everything and the final thought is that God may be all in all. Christ has brought all this about, it is "by him". He brings everything into subjection and then He takes the place of subjection Himself. God is all in all, meaning we are full of Him. There is no vacuum at all, no room for any reminiscences of any kind; we are full of Him, of all the fulness of God.

E.C.M. Does 2 Chronicles fit in? The priests could not stand to minister.

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J.T. That is the thought. The house and the temple are representative of ourselves. They are all suitable to God.

E.C.M. I was thinking of what it says, "When the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one voice to be heard ..." and I was wondering if John 4 is like a reference to the instruments which David made, and then they are brought into the service.

J.T. Yes. These singers and the instruments symbolise ourselves. The persons are in mind, what the Lord has made us. It is a very important thought, He has made every one of us. By Him, we are there. Joseph brought five of his brethren in before Pharaoh, he did not bring the whole eleven in. It is to indicate how He brings us in as suitable. He is not ashamed to call us brethren.

C.E.B. Is there a present service in what the Lord is doing in the assembly? "I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known".

J.T. Yes, "Will make it known" is probably chapter 20, but there is the practical carrying of that out all the time with us. "I have manifested thy name". Making the name known is the Lord bringing the thing home to us on the principle of teaching. 'I have made it known', so there is place for the love of God. Have you ever thought of the kinds of love there are in Scripture? There is the love of Christ, the love of the Spirit and the love of God, and then the Father's love for the Son, which is, I suppose, the highest kind of love. You can see that must be the finished thought.

F.S. Are we slow to really take in the wondrous purpose of God, that we are "for him"?

J.T. Well, we are called to the position. He is doing it; He is bringing it about. Think of the creation, for instance. Not one thing made without Him. Think of all that, the vastness of it! Every thing is by Him. He knew what God required. He

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has brought it all in, just as it is going on all these centuries. There is no failure in it at all. Now it is the moral side that is working, just doing the same thing, as Man, bringing everything into existence spiritually. We shall all appear in that day, and there will be no lack whatever; God will say, That is what I want.

Rem. "We are his workmanship". There is no flaw in that.

J.T. That is going on. God has His pattern and He goes on with it. Discipline comes in because we are not leaving ourselves in His hands.

Ques. What is the thought in "I in them"? In chapter 14, the Lord says, "I in you", but here it is, "I in them".

J.T. These scriptures fit together. "In that day ye shall know", John 14:20. That is the present day, the day of the Spirit. "Ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you", but in this verse it is, "the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them". That is, He is in us as having the same kind of love that the Father had for Him. You can see how He is in Him.

Ques. Would that correspond with the prayer in Ephesians 3? "That the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts".

J.T. That is right. It is the Christ there, meaning that He operates. He is doing everything.

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CHILDREN OF GOD AND SONSHIP

John 1:11 - 13; John 13:33 - 35; John 21:4 - 8 (first clause); Isaiah 8:18

J.T. What is in mind to be considered is sonship from the gospel of John. The passage in Isaiah is intended to bear on the last two scriptures read in John's gospel, to bring out the bearing of the children which God gave to Christ. The first scripture is intended to bring before us plainly the subject of the children of God; that relationship characterises John's gospel rather than that of sons; the word is 'children', not 'sons'. It refers to all christians, not in relation to our growth, for which another word is used, but as those belonging to the family of God, born of God. It belongs to the prefatory part of the gospel, showing the end reached through the incarnation, that those who received Christ were entitled to take this place. It might be enquired why sonship is not in mind, in view of chapter 20 where we are said to be brethren of Christ and that His Father is our Father and His God our God. That passage certainly involves sons, not children, for Christ is not said to be a child in the sense in which we are said to be children in this passage. Sonship is by adoption in our case, in His by birth; whereas we are children by birth. So that the answer as to the use of the word 'children' here, a dignified word, is that, in the main, the gospel has our present position here, as representative of God, in mind, in view doubtless of the apostasy; at the beginning of christianity, apostasy among the Jews, and now, at the end, apostasy among nominal christians. So that it finds out those who are real. Profession in itself is of no value; there must be the evidence of life, but life in the sense of being born of God, belonging to the

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family of God, so that we are characteristically of God. That is what is in mind, and we hope the brethren will be free to consider it together.

J.S.B. Will you enlarge a little on your remark that those who received Christ were entitled to take this place?

J.T. Well, the idea of the reception of Christ is condensed in John; we need to go to Luke for the enlargement of it; it is said in Luke that the time of His receiving up had come. God indicating in the record that, whatever men were thinking of Him, there was a warm reception awaiting Him in heaven: He was received up in glory, we are told. Luke also affords examples of the reception of Christ with very little warmth attached to them. John would indicate here that the reception of Christ by those who believed was genuine, accompanied by the work of God, by the divine birth, in the saints who were born, as it is said, "not of blood, nor of flesh's will, nor of man's will, but of God". As coming to His own, to what was His own, namely Israel, it would appear that their inability to receive Him must have occasioned grief to the Lord, and corresponding pleasure in those who did receive Him. It would mean, as was remarked, the genuine reception of Christ. There were different presentations of Him as they came to Him and received Him, but it was genuine, as in the incidents we have recorded in the gospel of persons who received Him.

J.W.S. Does that involve the sovereign work of God in the soul?

J.T. That is what is stated. The idea is that they received Him according to His testimony. The woman of Samaria would be an example: He was to her the Christ, that is, she received Him in that sense according to His testimony and claims; not simply as a person in the ordinary sense, but according to His claims. His rights, 'What was his own' (see

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note on verse 11) would mean He had rights there; they were His by right, "He was in the world", we are told, "and the world had its being through him" -- He had rights there too, but "the world knew him not". What was His own would be Israel, according to earlier testimony, for He was the Messiah and was entitled to reception.

F.S.M. What would the difference be between the thought of receiving Him and believing on His name? Both appear to be our side, whereas God's side is "born of God".

J.T. "As many as received him, to them gave he the right to be children of God, to those that believe on his name". I would say that believing on His name would be the recognition of what came out in Him by way of testimony. The signs, of course, called attention to Him; we are told in John 2 that "many believed on his name, beholding his signs which he wrought. But Jesus himself did not trust himself to them, because he knew all men, and that he had not need that any should testify of man, for himself knew what was in man". I suppose that would mean that there were those then, as in our day, who received Him in a merely mental way because of certain signs, but they were not genuine, they could not be said to be born of God. There are many who believe today through the testimony of christianity generally in this same way, but they are not trustworthy; so that believing on His name here would be accompanied by genuineness, as it is said, "Who have been born, not of blood, nor of flesh's will, nor of man's will, but of God". That is how I would take that; perhaps you have more to say about it.

F.S.M. No. I understand that the characteristic features of the children of God would be those two things, one, they believe on His name, and, two, they are born of God.

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J.T. Yes. Believing on His name is not enough. So every Scripture has to be read with its context, for believing on His name might be genuine left by itself, but it is not left by itself here, nor in chapter 2. Chapter 1 treats it as genuine by the fact that it is accompanied by the new birth, and that is, of course, a challenge to everyone in christendom now as to whether their profession is genuine.

H.P.W. Do we get help in this matter of receiving Him in Martha and Mary in Luke? Martha received Him into her house, but Mary into her heart. He had a permanent place with Mary.

J.T. That is the thought, and earlier in the gospel of Luke (chapter 9) the Lord sent messengers before His face to prepare His way and they came to a village of the Samaritans, and they did not receive Him because His face was as though He would go to Jerusalem. That is another important feature in Luke, that the direction of the Lord's face at that time implied His death; and, whether the Samaritans had that in mind or not, the fact is there, they did not receive Him because His face was towards Jerusalem. And I think that is pretty much how matters stand today; it is a question of whether our faces are towards Jerusalem. If we follow in the Lord's steps in that sense, we shall not be received either. We are to go all the way, for that is the idea; the Lord was going all the way involved in His mission. If we go all the way we shall not be received.

C.E.B. Was this worked out in the man in John 9?

J.T. All these cases in John that are presented to us, genuine cases, are examples of this. I believe the man in chapter 5 is somewhat questionable, for the Lord warns him that a worse thing might come upon him; he was not going all the way with Christ; too, the Lord says to the woman in chapter 8, although she seems to be reckoned among believers, "Go, and sin no more". Persons like those are doubtful, but

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the man in chapter 9 is unquestionable, as is also the group at Bethany. As has been said, Mary received the Lord into her heart, although there can be no doubt that Martha did, too, in a way; John shows us she did, for she is in her own place as the Lord finally comes to Bethany. Then the group at the cross, of course, is outstanding.

E.G. It says in John 2 that Jesus did not trust Himself to them; what would that imply?

J.T. It is an important suggestion, because it involves trustworthy persons in view of Christ in testimony. He is not here, of course, corporeally, but the testimony as to Himself is here. The use of the word 'Himself' will be noted -- "Jesus himself did not trust himself to them", and then, "for himself knew what was in man". He personally is stressed there. He had already said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up", showing that His destruction was in His enemies' mind, and that nominal believers would be of no value at all in that sense. Nicodemus represents the kind that could be trusted; although he scarcely comes to much in the gospel. There is what we have in our verses in chapter 1 that establishes trustworthiness. It is an appeal to us as to whether what we profess is worth while, whether we are ready to stand for it, to suffer for it, if need be.

E.C.B. Would believing in Christ here involve all that went before His death in incarnation?

J.T. I think His name would mean that; it would imply what John presents of Him. You cannot divorce that from the idea of His name; this book establishes it more than any. When He comes out from heaven we are told His name is called the Word of God.

Ques. Have we to be born of God before we believe on His name?

J.T. That is right, only born of God goes a little beyond new birth, though it includes it. Born of

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God implies we receive the full testimony of God; it is a question of the testimony, what God is. God revealed, and how the Spirit affects us thoroughly with that. Born of God goes beyond chapter 3, where it is said we are born of water and of the Spirit.

J.S. Born of God would bring in the character of God.

J.T. Yes, we are children. Born of God does not declare us children, but receiving the whole testimony of God makes us known as children of God, that is, we are of God characteristically. The position of children is a question of title, because we receive Christ; it is a peculiar touch as owning Christ.

Ques. What does it mean in chapter 3, "He that has received his testimony has set to his seal that God is true; for he whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives not the Spirit by measure"?

J.T. Well, that refers to what we are saying as to those who receive Him. I think the reception of His testimony, that is, Christ's testimony, would be that He was representative of God, and setting that to his seal would mean a man is thoroughly committed to the matter. He sets it to his seal -- he will not put his hand to anything else -- that God is true. It would imply what we are saying that he is one of the children of God, but he is an outstanding person; he has received His testimony, and that implies God is true, for Christ represents God in His testimony. God's giving the Spirit without measure would allude to Christ, to how Christ received the Spirit, but it also alludes to how the Spirit has come into christianity. At Pentecost He came in fully and wholly, no individual believer could receive Him in that fulness; it is a question, I apprehend, of how He is here in the assembly. So the verse contemplates christianity in the fullest sense, a man having set to his seal the testimony that God is true. I think it brings out

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strikingly what is before us, the representation of God here at the present time in the midst of unreality.

A.W.R. Would verse 29 of chapter 4, "Is not he the Christ?" constitute a title to be one of the children of God?

J.T. I think that is in keeping with what we are saying. She does not quote the Lord's remark to her that He was the Christ; anyone might say that He is the Christ, as many do now, because Scripture writes it down. The Lord told her formally that He was the Christ, but she does not quote that to the men; she says to the men, "Come, see a man who told me all things I had ever done: is not he the Christ?" That is, her preaching was on moral lines, not simply that she would quote a scripture, which is right, of course. Our testimony issues from the effect of the testimony on ourselves; it is that that gives character to our testimony. Hence she calls attention to the fact that the Lord had told her all that ever she had done, which implied she had been a very wicked person, and that she was not hiding it, she was judging it, and hence moral power went with her testimony to the men. So they accepted her testimony, and I believe all that happened about her indicates clearly enough that she is one of those who received Him. She says, "Is not he the Christ?" Her question would not mean that she doubted it; she did not doubt it. He was the Christ to her, and that would mean she believed on His name. She would be much more later, but that is the principle, she believed on His name.

Ques. Is the thought of children of God in chapter 1 somewhat higher than being born of God? Verse 12, I understand, could be rendered, 'To them gave he the right to become children of God'; whereas in verse 13 it is, "Who have been born ...".

J.T. I am sure that is true, according to the reading. The right or title to take the place, as it

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says, of children of God is stressed, that is, it is accorded to certain persons, and it is because they have received Christ. "Who have been born ..." is subordinated to that great fact, but is explanatory, showing how genuine they are. "To them gave he the right" is past, of course, and "have been" is past; it is all past from John's point of view, but he is stressing the idea of the reception of Christ, how God regards the genuine reception of Christ by affording title or right to persons who have received Him to take the place of children of God. The other is subordinate, but it is also a past matter. Being born of God would certainly be an initial thought; the new birth would be a necessity to this.

Ques. After the first sign in John 2 it says His disciples believed on Him; is that a further thought than believing on His name?

J.T. I think, as I said before, we have to read each of these statements by itself, and that believing on the part of the disciples would be additional to or a development of their earlier faith. That is, the first sign here confirms them in their earlier faith, because they are already disciples. That is another thing; it does not mean they were not believers before, but they have advanced in their faith, and that is to be taken into account by all of us, that our faith is confirmed. "This beginning of signs did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested his glory; and his disciples believed on him". That indicates the great importance of the signs in the whole book, it is the initial idea which runs through, a question of the manifestation of His glory. He had in mind that they should be real believers, because the signs were manifested before the disciples. Chapter 11 is brought in, written later of course, but referring to the time of our Lord's sojourn here below. The term "children of God" is used by the Spirit, and they are said to be scattered (verse 52), a very remarkable

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passage! It arose from the fact of the resurrection of Lazarus. Read verses 47 - 52. This becomes a very interesting passage at the present time, because a similar condition prevails, the children of God are scattered abroad, but the Lord died, we are told, to gather them together into one -- a very strong word as to the force of gathering. That one man should die for the people is a good example for us now as to whether we love the children of God. If we love God we love the children of God, we are told by John elsewhere (1 John 5:2) and now that the way is open, the death of Christ having occurred as a basis of gathering, it is for us to take to heart how the children of God are to be gathered. It is evidently a principle on the line on which Christ will gather them, which is by dying for them.

F.S.M. Is the local gathering on earth an answer to this in measure?

J.T. It is very encouraging that there is something of this going on: every genuine gathering is a testimony to it. The children of God are being gathered; the prophetic word may have a place in that; God is stressing it amongst us. Caiaphas being the high priest that year was able to say this; God's furnishing such a prophetic word even through a man like that would bring out the importance of prophecy and how ready God is to use anyone who is available at all to bring the truth before us.

Ques. How does this fit in with Hebrews 2, "Since therefore the children partake of blood and flesh, he also, in like manner, took part in the same, that through death he might annul him who has the might of death"? The reference is to the passage in Isaiah you referred to.

J.T. That is to bring out, of course, the humanity of Christ; it is quoted in Hebrews for that reason, but the Spirit does not confine Himself to that. He goes on to deliverance from Satan: "That through

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death he might annul him who has the might of death, that is, the devil; and might set free all those who through fear of death through the whole of their life were subject to bondage"; it is, "who has the might of death", not 'who had it', a very solemn matter, but the death of Christ has made a way for deliverance and it enters into what we are saying, the children of God are scattered abroad and the prophetic word would lead up to our being gathered.

F.S.M. Would the gathering be in view of God being represented by those who are so gathered? Is that why the title, "children of God", is used?

J.T. I think so; we are representative of God, viewed in that light. He is very concerned about it, for the Spirit witnesses with our spirits that we are that, in Romans, and in Philippians: "Harmless and simple, irreproachable children of God in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation; among whom ye appear as lights in the world". So that we are viewed as representative of God, as the stars, you might say.

F.W. You referred in your prayer to the necessity of being watchful as to the tactics of the enemy, do we see them emphasised in this 11th chapter and yet this thought of oneness comes out? It says they immediately took counsel that they might kill Him. Do you think what the Lord had indicated aroused enmity on the part of the enemy, and do we need to be watchful lest there be any such attack now?

J.T. It is remarkable how frequently that is seen in this gospel, and in this case it is said, "Jesus therefore walked no longer openly among the Jews, but went away thence into the country near the desert, to a city called Ephraim, and there he sojourned with the disciples" (verse 54). The position is clear enough; applying to our own times, the attack has been made. It is most distressing in this land, which is often spoken of as the most favoured, as it is, how

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rapidly apostasy is coming in, which is really an attack on Christ. His action is to escape from it: He "walked no longer openly among the Jews". The Lord speaks of those who say they are Jews and are not; that is the class of people, I think, who are to be feared, judaisers. He "went away thence into the country near the desert, to a city called Ephraim, and there he sojourned with the disciples". Earlier, when He was attacked and the Jews surrounded Him, in chapter 10, He "departed", we are told, "again beyond the Jordan to the place where John was baptising at the first; and he abode there". That is, at that time He returned to first principles, which in our day would mean that we have been enabled to leave aside all that men have brought in as innovations in the service of God and return to first principles. "Many believed on him there", it says, that is, where John was baptising at the first. But here things are getting worse; we have greater testimony to who He was in the resurrection of Lazarus and the opposition is increasing, there is no recognition of the signs at all, but He took His disciples with Him and He went into the desert, which I think is a suggestion for the present time. Safety is in keeping near the desert, not in keeping where the world has its pleasures and interests; the desert is the opposite of that, it affords nothing for the flesh and that is our safety, as we were saying last night here in this city. The Lord pictures the closing days, as the coming of the Son of man is imminent, that it would be as it was in the days of Noah; that is the social side of the position: they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark. That is the dangerous thing, and they were all destroyed; that is the social side. Then the commercial side is as the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded, these things went

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on until the very end. And I believe the Lord here is showing how to avoid the judgment by going to the desert, keeping in the desert parts. John the baptist, it says, was in the deserts until the day of his showing to Israel. Our safety in these circumstances is in keeping in the deserts as to our outward position.

F.W. Have you any reference to make as to the city of Ephraim?

J.T. What had you in mind?

F.W. I thought it might be connected with fruitfulness for God.

J.T. Yes, we are about to come to that as to what it means. We are now coming to the children God gave to Christ, that is the next part of our subject, and that comes into it. The first reference is in chapter 13. The passage in Isaiah brings it before us, how the thought of Christ seen there actually appeared, how He regarded the disciples as children. He could address them thus, not exactly children of God, but He uses this term as indicating at this particular juncture a parental position on His part. I think it is intended to be comforting as affording shelter and peculiar affection on the part of the Lord, so that Joseph is the first type of Christ in this respect, both as to Manasseh and Ephraim. He tells Jacob that these two were the children God gave him here, that is in Egypt; they did not belong to the land in that sense. That alludes to our position as gentiles; we have accrued to Christ here while He is rejected by Israel. And Manasseh would mean God had made him forget his father's house in the land of his affliction, that is, forgetfulness of all this Jewish position. God had made him to forget; it was a state he had reached, and, in spite of that forgetfulness, he was fruitful in that land. So that Ephraim here may have some allusion to that. The next type of Christ in this respect is as to Gershom

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and Eliezer; they also were given to Moses by God, denoting his strangership, and that God was his protector and deliverer, so it seems to me the connection with Isaiah 8 brings things down to ourselves and is very comforting, the meaning of names written across the family of Christ. He is taking a parental care over us and these names are written on the family, as it were.

A.T. What is the link you had in mind between children of God and sonship?

J.T. I thought we ought to get this thought at this juncture of the sons God gave to Christ in view of His hiding His face from the house of Jacob. He says, "I and the children that Jehovah hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel" -- an additional thought to what we have had before. It is particularly important, I believe, for the brethren to have before them what we are as set for signs and wonders in Israel.

F.W. Is it compensation to the Messiah for the loss of Israel? They refused the waters of Shiloah which flow softly, and rejoiced in Rezin and in the son of Remaliah, and He gets these sons as compensation.

J.T. That is how the matter stands there. It is Jehovah dwelling in Zion, too, so the testimony is to go on. He is not simply receding from view because He is rejected. He is going on with the testimony and bringing in greater testimony because He and they are for signs and wonders in Israel; and it is in relation to Zion, meaning that whatever men do or say in regard to Christ, the testimony is to go on, and Zion, the centre of everything, is in view. Zion is brought in in verse 18. God is not at all altering His position. He is going on with His testimony, but He has these children and they are for signs and wonders in Israel.

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F.W. Has it reference to what is about us today in the way of spiritism, and so on?

J.T. It is very remarkable the signs we get here, "The virgin shall conceive and shall bring forth a son, and call his name Immanuel", that is the strength of the virgin, it is not put down as God's act, but hers, what comes in at such a time as this. Then they are children directly given Him by God, and therefore for signs and wonders in Israel; first, Immanuel, God with us, and, secondly, what the saints are in relation to what God is doing.

Ques. Would the verse in Isaiah fit in with Philippians in our day, in the midst of breakdown. God securing what is trustworthy and pleasing to Himself?

J.T. It is a question of the signs that come out. These necromancers and such like things are all around us; how are these things to be met? They are met in this way, "God with us". That is the cry of the remnant, but this is a further thought. He is Immanuel, God with us, but He also has children and we belong to those children; but where are the signs and where are the wonders? I have no doubt they are seen in a little way in our position as brethren and the way God is helping us in these meetings, and the like. People do not understand them at all. What are these people? Where have they come from? We are not merely peculiar people, in the way people are called that, but a known people. In a little way there are signs and wonders about us as different from any, and that would mean we are spiritual, God is among us.

F.S.M. Does the title 'children' in John 13 carry the thought of the affection with which we are held in the heart of Christ? It is noted as an affectionate term. Is it more than the representation of God and a testimony to unity? Is it also a testimony to the heart of Christ?

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J.T. That was why I suggested all these scriptures to be read. He says, "Children, yet a little while I am with you ... By this shall all know that ye are disciples of mine, if ye have love amongst yourselves". There is representation of Christ in us in our little gatherings here and there, we have love amongst ourselves.

Ques. Does Isaiah 8 in regard to the continuance of the testimony precede the reference in Hebrews 2?

J.T. It is an additional thought to confirm the humanity of Christ. It was said earlier that "both he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one; for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren" (Hebrews 2:11); that is, He is with them as Man and they are His brethren; but it goes further and says -- another quotation to confirm that -- "I and the children which God has given me", that brings out what the death of Christ involves as to the children, namely, that Satan's power is broken, a very important matter in our present position. He who has the might of death is annulled; he still has it in that sense, but we understand the position, there is power to resist him.

H.P.W. In so far as we really are a living issue and in that way come out in the features of Christ, the power of the enemy is demonstrated as having been broken.

J.T. Exactly; there it is, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up", the Lord says, and what follows brings out that all that it speaks about as to resurrection and eternal life would mean the saints are a testimony to Him. Satan is against us in that position, peculiarly so, as it says, but He has given us power and what He stresses here is love among yourselves. One has felt lately, and others have, too, how the small gatherings in the rural districts of the world are tending to die out, not because there is unreality in those who form them,

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but because many are moving away to the cities and also because these gatherings are not visited by those who can help them. One thought that this passage as to having love among yourselves -- it is the quality of love, love among yourselves -- would ensure the continuance of the testimony in these places, for love never fails. Gift comes along and helps, of course, but this is the thing to rely upon, and there is representation of Christ in the gatherings, however feeble or few outwardly, on this principle.

H.P.W. Will you say a little more as to that, for it applies very much here, there are small gatherings and the population tends to drift into the cities? Do I understand you to say that the brethren in the districts round should visit such small meetings?

J.T. And care for them peculiarly, for the tendency is for them to die out; we need to have love amongst ourselves for there is warmth in love and that edifies; so, though there be no gift, there is power there and there is representation, as here: "By this shall all know", says the Lord, "that ye are disciples of mine", that we do not belong to any party; we are not a sect at all, we are disciples of Jesus -- "if ye have love amongst yourselves".

Rem. Love in that way is an evidence of life.

J.T. Yes, love is really life in activity.

J.S.B. The gathering at Bethany seems to have been a very small one, but it was very attractive to the Lord because love was there. Would that illustrate this?

J.T. It illustrates it fully. And not only was there love there but the highest intelligence; Mary represents that; it filled the house.

Ques. Would the thought of, "Behold, I and the children" involve the thought of care as well as testimony?

J.T. It is very beautiful how it appears here. It was the time Judas went out, and the Lord regards

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that fact as implying His death, for He says, "Now is the Son of man glorified, and God ... shall glorify him immediately". He is speaking of His death in these wonderful terms. The exit of Judas meant he was going to betray Him and bring about His death, but the Lord is speaking of it as glory. The glory that shines in and around the death of Christ is most affecting, and this passage is to bring it out. Now, He says, Children, you are to be with Me and these conditions are to be continued -- but how? In the presence of love. It is glory in the gatherings really, what belongs to the house of God.

E.J.McB. Is your thought that the children are related to God in the first passage and they can count on God as being His children; and then related to Christ and in His affections in the second passage, so that we can have the conscious sense of the link because of our affection for Christ, making way for the third passage you have in mind?

J.T. Yes, we are in the Lord's affections, as has been pointed out, we are so regarded by the Lord. The Lord is pleased elsewhere to say, "Fear not, little flock", and here "children", and that the glory is to be with them. We are not behind in what belongs to the house of God because of love amongst ourselves, not only right doctrine, but love amongst ourselves. That is the testimony that we are disciples of Jesus; we are no sect; persons in this state are no sect, they belong to the universal thought of God, namely His house, and they have love amongst themselves.

Rem. Deborah says, "The villages ceased in Israel, ceased until that I Deborah arose, that I arose a mother in Israel", Judges 5:7. Would that involve love in activity and care?

J.T. Very good, a mother in Israel.

Just a word as to chapter 21. The disciples were fishing, they were on their own; there is defection,

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but they have not yet forfeited their right to be regarded as Christ's children. They are a bit out of their orbit, but we are entitled to consider they were recoverable. In the Lord's mind they had not forfeited their rights, and He would convey to them that they were to Him what they had been. He was going to make Peter fully a lover, for indeed he was a lover, but He would bring out fully that he was a lover and admit that Peter would die for Him. I think this is a beautiful passage as restorative in view of some turning away from us, perhaps not openly giving up their privilege, but about to do it, or thinking of doing it; the Lord would reassure us of His love and interest in us. So He approaches them to bring out what had resulted in their little detour. It says it was early in the morning, for the Lord is on the alert for recovery; He stood on the shore and the disciples did not know it was Jesus, and Jesus said to them, "Children, have ye anything to eat?" I think that is a fine word where there is defection in any way, that we have not got anything to eat really, and the Lord would bring that out; they had gained nothing from the night's fishing. "They answered him, No. And he said to them, Cast the net at the right side of the ship and ye will find. They cast therefore, and they could no longer draw it, from the multitude of fishes. That disciple therefore whom Jesus loved says to Peter, It is the Lord". That is the beginning of the end for recovery.

E.J.McB. Do you not think the great test in these days is whether we have any meat or not?

J.T. I think it is; the Lord intended to bring out that they did not have any. In Luke 24 He brought up the same question, but they did have some for they were going on with the assembly themselves together, but here they did not. There is not one of these independent companies that have moved

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away for years and years that has anything to eat; wherever there is uprightness they admit it, too.

A.M. Chapter 1 says, "Who have been born, not of blood, nor of flesh's will, nor of man's will". I was thinking of what John says, "It is the Lord" -- do we have to be brought back to a sense of His rights?

J.T. Quite so: he is the disciple Jesus loved; that word would mean it. He belonged to the first class, the sons or children of God. He is a genuine case, he quickly says, "It is the Lord".

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THE FULL-GROWN MAN

1 Samuel 17:40 - 54; Ephesians 4:8 - 16

Manhood is in mind at this time -- what is spoken of in the passage in Ephesians, the full-grown man. It will be remembered that the saints residing at Corinth addressed in the first letter were not full-grown, they were said to be babes, not in the sense referred to in our passage in Ephesians exactly, but they were babes in Christ. That is, they had the full christian status, but were very wanting in their growth, stunting conditions had overtaken them, so that they were hindered. In Hebrews the Jewish believers were in like condition; when they should have been teachers they needed to be taught, they needed the very first principles of christianity, and the explanation was that they had not exercised their senses to the discerning of good and evil, a sure trait of persons who have not gone on normally in the truth. Very often they call evil good and good evil, and they are quite assured of their accuracy, for such persons are generally self-confident.

So I have begun with David as representing typically what I have in mind, manhood according to God. Goliath would be manhood according to man, indeed one of his kindred is said to have been a six-fingered man and a six-toed man. He is set down as over against the principle of five in David; five is the basic thought of manhood according to God. Six would be manhood according to man, and the world is not wanting of such -- what are called supermen. They stand over against Christ and against christians normally, for christians are normally like Christ. Disciples, believers, were first called christians at Antioch. Antioch was signalised in that way, men developed after Christ, not only in love, but in intelligence.

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It was the outcome of a year's service by two great servants of Christ, Saul and Barnabas; they served a whole year, we are told, in that town teaching in the assembly. The word 'assembly' as used thus -- not simply as in the original meaning, but as used by the Spirit of God -- represents manhood normally. When it is said these great servants in the assembly taught the crowd, the meaning is not that the assembly is a building such as we are in now, and certainly the crowd was not a building; the point is that the idea of the assembly is present in these great servants, the abstract thought of it. So that, as they proceed in their work of teaching, there would be a gradual diminution of the crowd, that is, as to the state of their minds, and practical representation developing of the assembly. That is, the crowd would develop into manhood, understanding the assembly. That calls for instruction throughout the four seasons, an important matter in spiritual education, for we should go through the whole course. Climatic conditions involve discipline and have interchanging effects. The winter bears on spring, and the summer bears on autumn, they have modifying effects, so that the education is equalised with the thought of a balanced state of things, balanced men; for manhood implies balance, a man is one who can stand on his own feet and is not carried away unduly by the influence of others.

So in David's case we have this basic thought of five. It is simple, yet most important, for it is basic. He is not a six-fingered man nor a six-toed man; yet these great men, called the giants, all fall by his hand and by the hand of his servants. So that, as believers, we need not dread these men that are regarded as leaders, abnormal men -- supermen, as they would like to be called. Some of them figure in politics, others in commerce, others in manufacture, but mainly in politics. These latter are the prototypes

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of the coming man with that terrible designation, the man of sin, the son of perdition. It is well to have all these things in our minds. The Philistine giant was like them; he made a great show, both of himself, his size and his armour, his military weapons. We read in Scripture of a "stronger than he", that is One stronger even than Satan himself, who takes away his armour in which he trusts and overcomes him and divides the spoil. We belong to that Man, the Stronger than the strong man, we belong to Him. Christians normally too, are all men, and as such, we accept our limitations. Not that the Lord Jesus would ever be limited, but He accepted limitations. The power of compression in Christ is one of the great features of manhood according to God. So Paul tells us that Christ was "crucified in weakness", a statement that is to be observed with reverence and understanding. There are many other statements like it, especially in the Psalms, that are intended for our spiritual food, but food for men of Christ's order, food that keeps us little. We need to be built up for that. "For when I am weak", the leader of these men after Christ says, "then am I strong", 2 Corinthians 12:10. So David is set over against the six-toed, six-fingered men. Note that it does not say six senses, for it was a question of their exploits, what they could do, not basic power. The strong man comes under the power of Another, a stronger than he, One who really has power. With all these men it is a question of their exploits, not any real power, for what they are in themselves is another matter. They are characteristically weak in themselves. These great men live to show their armour, their military weapons, the glamour they display. A man after Christ, the man in Christ (I have been speaking of the babes in Christ, but I am now speaking of the man in Christ) is ready to hide, to be concealed, to be nothing, to conceal himself. Think

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of the greatest, I may say, under Christ, saying, I am "less than the least of all saints". Ephesians 3:8. I can scarcely understand that as to my own feelings, perhaps none of us does, but it is there. The Spirit of God has recorded it and it must have been the apostle's feelings -- "less than the least of all saints"!

David selects these five stones out of a brook. Saul had endeavoured to make a show in his armour, but David, after consideration, as a subject servant having respect to his suggestions, finally deliberately refused it. A very fine trait, dear brethren. For with it we shall come under flattery. Beware of a king's armour, what an armour! Anything borrowed is to be avoided. He was not giving it to him, he was putting it on him, and David declined. Beautiful representation of lowly dependence and the avoidance of borrowed things, of others' weapons and armour! He would select his own, for originality spiritually belongs to a man, the real man according to God. He is never dependent on imitation, on what others wear. He has his own secrets, it is a question of secrets. Relations with God in secret are really what is behind David, and so it is in Matthew that, in view of the assembly, we are to enter into our closets and pray to our Father in secret. That is how manhood is developed. Accompanying this idea of five in David is real dependence on God, not on himself. What if the stone missed, that would be the exercise of his heart. What disaster! That would be the natural thought, but David seemingly had none of these thoughts. He was dependent on God, he clave to the name of the God of Israel, whom the Philistine had defied. What a spectacle! and withal, he retained his loveliness to God, not perturbed, his visage unchanged, anxiety absent in the whole picture. He is there in his ruddiness and in his beauty of countenance in the presence of such

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antagonism. That is manhood. I need not enlarge on the thought because it is a well-known chapter, but to go on to verse 54, which is the sequel, he took the head of the giant to Jerusalem. That is, he has God in his mind. Not only that God would help him, but that he would prepare something for God.

Psalm 68 was written by David, you know, and quoted in the passage I read in Ephesians. The link between Ephesians 4 and 1 Samuel 17 may not have struck all of us, but there is a remarkable link. It is manhood in David carried through. Psalm 68 is a lengthy and very full one, full of great and glorious subjects; amongst them is the thought of ascending on high, leading captivity captive and receiving gifts in Man, that there might be a dwelling there for Jah Elohim. You see how the Spirit of God links on the early manhood of David with the greatest thoughts in Scripture. It is a question of ascending on high and gifts received in Man, for that is how it reads, received in Man, that is Christ. Christ, as it were, is the antitype of all this. It is He who ascended on high, but David took the giant's head to Jerusalem. What is the intent, what is the end of any victorious service? What is the end of any service, any believer's service, any service carried on according to God? What is the end in the mind of an intelligent servant? It is that God might dwell among His people. If He be dwelling a little, that He might have more scope. It is manhood that is needed, as I hope to show from Ephesians, but Psalm 68 shows, it being David's composition, that he is linking up his own exploits with Jerusalem and with the temple. Applied antitypically it is Christ in real power, moral power, dealing with the adversary, the strong man. How beautiful is the link between the five smooth stones selected in the valley by David and the weapons of Jesus, the Son of God, in His encounter with Satan. What a model, dear brethren, of manhood! -- "It is

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written". How important that all young brothers and sisters should read the Bible. We are surrounded by these so-called supermen and their emissaries, in the schools, in the business places, in the offices and workshops. This sort of thing is all around us, how are we to meet it? It is upon us to meet it. So the need for the Scriptures. Satan knows well how Jesus met him by the Scriptures, by what was written. You can understand Satan would say, If I can only get rid of what is written, and that is what he is doing, trying to get rid of the Bible, to set it aside. I need not follow up the wretched phrases used, but it is simply the effort of the devil to get rid of the Bible, especially, of course, the book of Genesis in which all the roots are. If he could only get rid of that! I am speaking of the importance of young people reading the Bible. I have been speaking of prayer, the word of God and prayer go together, reading the Bible for yourself without note or comment of others, not that I am disparaging note and comment, but still the naked word, which is the actual framework of the Spirit of God, has its own voice. God has graciously brought to us a wonderful translation of the original, not half appreciated by us. No christian should be without a copy, so that he might read aright, that he might have the divine weapons and know how to use them in meeting these terrible blasphemies.

So, as I am saying, David chose five smooth stones, carefully selected for the overthrow of these supermen, for that is what Goliath was, and all like him, too. The whole family of the giants fell at the hand of David and at the hand of his servants, the total extirpation of these wicked men, and God is about to deal with these wicked men. He is dealing with them, graciously helping His people from the Scriptures in the power of the Spirit, and He would appeal to everybody here today, young people especially, to

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read the Scriptures, to be thoroughly furnished, as it is said. Indeed, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works", 2 Timothy 3:16, 17.

One loves to dwell on these holy compositions. Five books of Psalms -- the number five, how significant! Five books of the Pentateuch, too -- how significant! Is it for nothing? No, it is that the reader might understand what this number five means, and so how wonderfully full of holy matter David must have been when he wrote that 68th Psalm, cited by the apostle Paul in this wonderful epistle, the greatest of the epistles, I mean, the most spiritual, the most exalted. He brings David into it, not by name but in his words.

So Paul has in mind to put before the Ephesians something as to edification in order that the assembly there should be self-edified, for verse 16 speaks of that and I wish everybody to pay attention to what is written in these verses, because it applies to all gatherings. That there are gatherings answering to the assembly at the present time is a miracle, a supreme miracle. God has done it, brought His people back; we had it this afternoon: "That he should also gather together into one the children of God who were scattered abroad". Into one, that is unity, "Using diligence", he says, "to keep the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace". As I said, it is a supreme miracle; God has done it, Christ has done it. He speaks of Himself as having done it. The book of Revelation says He intended to do it, and He has done it. There are these little gatherings, some of them extremely weak in the rural districts of the world where they are, and these scriptures are intended for them, that is the idea of self-edification. How can it be unless we have manhood? If we are

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only babes in Christ, every gathering will be marked by feelings of envy in one way or another. I hesitate to say that; it is humbling to have to say it, but it is the truth, and the secret is the want of spiritual manhood. Babes in Christ, as Paul says, acting like men, not the kind of men I am speaking of, but the natural men in this world. And so the apostle says, "With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, ... using diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace", and then, so as to base the thing on firm ground, there is this oneness of the Spirit, for the unity of the Spirit is not simply local, it is universal; for "There is one body and one Spirit, as ye have been also called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all", a marvellous widening out of the position. These things are to be in our minds; that is the idea, what this wonderful basis is of unity. Over and above all is the thought of the Father, "one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in us all". How fixed we are, how protected we are, as we accept these things in our minds fixedly.

And so then the apostle goes on to call attention to what David said. Of course, it is God by the Spirit that writes these Psalms, but it is what David said in verse 8, "Wherefore he says, Having ascended up on high, he has led captivity captive, and has given gifts to men". That is how Paul quotes it, for he has in his mind to speak of the things of Christ as actually given to the assembly. What David had said by the Spirit was slightly different, but the apostle Paul proceeds to apply it in its actual form, how it has taken form, that is in the christian dispensation. David says, "Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive, thou hast received gifts in Man". That is more basic, as I said, that was what was in his mind, while the Spirit is speaking

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of Christ ascending into heaven as Man, and He says, He has received gifts as a Man; precious thought that we have One up there as Man (I speak reverently), Head over all things, of course, yet still a Man; He received these gifts as Man. He had by this time gone through death, He was crucified in weakness, but He was raised by the glory of the Father. What manhood entered into all that, and it brings out in the forty days here after He rose, what was there. He has gone up on high and He has received gifts in Man; the allusion really is to the reception of the Spirit from the Father. Christ received them as Man, but what manhood! So the Spirit is come down, "He shall glorify me, for he shall receive of mine and shall announce it to you". He has been doing that all the time since Pentecost. He is doing it now at the present time, bringing in here the greatness of Christ as Man. So the apostle Paul says in the following verse, "But that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same who has also ascended up above all the heavens, that he might fill all things". Think of the compression there is in these two verses, 9 and 10. How the apostle's heart was touched in quoting David to the Ephesian saints. It is a remarkable connection, dear brethren. How his heart was touched, to amplify what David said. That is as to Christ, these two verses are the amplification of it, and Christ is God. He is Man, but He is God; who else could go beyond all heavens! The greatest of servants tells us he was caught up as far as the third heaven, that is the creature limit, but not so with Jesus, for the Spirit of God in all connections brings in the deity of Christ. In manhood He is God as to His Person; He is Man gone beyond all heavens, but still as Man.

The apostle goes on in verse 11, "And he has given some apostles, and some prophets, and some

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evangelists, and some shepherds and teachers". These are the gifts; they are not gifts in persons but the persons are included. Paul says it is a question of men that Jesus gave. He has gone up so far; "he has given some apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some shepherds and teachers". Let us measure ourselves. There are those who call themselves evangelists, and so forth, but manhood must underlie all these offices. These are men of His order, they are like Himself. The idea of babyhood and gift do not correspond. Gifts are received in Man and given to men, but really they are included in the gift. That is, it is an apostle, a prophet, an evangelist, it is a pastor and teacher; that is a man, each is a man. And so with Paul as he moved about it was as a man after Christ, a dependent man, as David was dependent in his service, always ready to turn to God, and God always ready to answer. Let us get to God in secret in regard of everything; He is ready to answer. So the apostle Paul, so the Lord Jesus: what a praying Man! Think of a whole night in prayer, whatever the length of the night was! think of the Lord, hour after hour on His knees! What Manhood! Heaven proclaims Him as the Son; the heavens delight in praying men; our local gatherings depend on these men, not on babes. Men are needed, teaching requires men, whatever is needed requires manhood. We shall not get on together; we shall not be in unity, locally or universally, save in the presence of this feature, namely manhood. It may well be said by the apostle, "Quit yourselves like men"; I call you babes, but quit yourselves like men, and be strong.

The apostle proceeds to tell us that these men, these gifts are "for the perfecting of the saints; with a view to the work of the ministry, with a view to the edifying of the body of Christ; until we all arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of

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God, at the full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ". That is the end, to be full-grown. We must not assume that it is not workable. The Spirit is here, the assembly is here, all these meetings are based on the Spirit. We are in circumstances which are suited to the growth of manhood, full-grown man, the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ. It is the fulness, His fulness, what has come out here in Him as Man, all these beautiful traits that are so depicted in the gospels, psalms and epistles, what is suitable to man.

Then as he further says, "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; but speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: from whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love". How beautifully depicted the thought is by the apostle. As to persons who are not growing normally, he would say to such, Be no longer like that, exposed to every wind of doctrine. There are those who lie in wait to deceive. We hardly realise it, but it is so. The enemy is at work in this way, concealing himself for an attack. It is constantly coming up and we need to be fortified on these lines, it is a question of manhood. So the growth is to be universal, not on one side, but in all things, that is in myself, "I myself", as the apostle says. I come to myself and come to my standing on my feet according to Romans 7. I grow that way in all things and one of the most important things is to recognise what the apostle Paul says there, "So then I myself with the mind serve God's law". In my own consciousness, I decree with myself before

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God that the will of God will prevail with me, that I with the mind serve the law of God. Then it widens out; in the family, I am growing as a father, growing as a wife, growing as a child, as a son, or as a daughter. In my business, I am growing as a servant or a master; I am growing unto Christ in all things. Let no one think his office is not to be a place of growth. It will not be a place of growth if it is the first thing with me, for business becomes a pleasure when we earn more than we need. As soon as it becomes a pleasure, it is a snare, and we never grow in it. People speak well of us because we are growing in business, but we are to grow in all things, so that I take advantage of every circumstance in which I am to grow to Christ, to grow up to Him in all things. And so above all in the assembly, the assembly should not seem strange to me in coming from my office or my workshop. I come into the place of growth in the assembly, it is not different in that sense. My business is a place of discipline indeed, a place of care and worry, but it is a place of growth; let no one forget this. In every sphere I am to grow. It is a universal thought, grow up to Him in all things.

Then he goes on to say Christ is the Head. "Which is the head, even Christ: from whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love". That is the saints in any locality or universally, making increase of the body. As I grow myself, the body is growing and I grow in relation to my brethren, the most important of all. I am less critical than I used to be, more ready to suffer attacks than I used to be, that is the idea. Take my measure and see the difference. I may not see myself growing, but I see from month to month I am growing, and if I cannot see it, it is time to get down before God about it and

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see what is hindering the growth. As Paul says to the Galatians, "Who did hinder you?". If he were to come into a commercial city and see the saints dwarfed, what has hindered them? -- commerce. We are robbing God in that, you see, so that we are to grow in all things up into Christ, that is the Head. Then the organism, the most wonderful thing, what is called the mystery, hid in God from all generations, that a few saints in a given town are growing up into Christ in all things and that they are self-edified; they love one another. There is a steady building up of one another on these principles; they have renounced babyhood, renounced the smallness of the natural mind in relation to one another; they have become men, and so the steady growth of this wonderful organism goes on. What does it mean? It is for the dwelling place for God; that is really the thought that David had, so did Paul, so everyone that takes on manhood.

The closing chapters of Ezekiel are very striking. The land is divided; measuring across, every brother, every tribe, has a width, no depth to his strip mentioned. What does it mean? It means he is accepting things in love. He has got no difficulty, he is not urgent to get more, he is accepting what there is. It is beautiful resignation to the divine will, because these are the tribes of Israel and each gets his strip without any depth. There is depth, of course, but for us, just the width. Fill it out. His name will be seen, the name of the tribe, his name will be seen in the way he has filled it out, "Unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ". How am I using it? It will become wider and wider as I use it rightly. Then as looking down the tribes with all these strips, no borders mentioned, an immense part of the territory is given to God for a heave-offering. Proportionately a very large part of the land is given to Jehovah as a heave-offering,

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meaning that God is all in all. Love will have it so. There is something for God, for a dwelling place of the Lord God. That is the idea of the gifts received by Christ in heaven and given to men down here, that God might dwell among them. What can be greater? The epistle to Ephesians works it out, "For a habitation of God in the Spirit". That may apply to two or three of us; it is a question of the state we are in, whether we are men and thus afford a dwelling place for God.

Well, may these thoughts help us, as the Lord would use such an occasion to help us generally, that there should be something for God in every one of our districts.

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SUNSHINE DISPLACING CLOUDS

Genesis 32:1 - 13, 24 - 31

I refer to this scripture to show how a believer in cloudy circumstances and with cloudy vision passes into clear daylight. Jacob's history is of immense practical value in this sense, as he was, though a true believer, marked by mixed motives; indeed his life generally was cloudy, as with most of us. It was not until he went out of Canaan to Joseph that he definitely reached the clear light of day. It was contrary to his early hopes and expectations, contrary, too, to the promises of God, that he should go out of Canaan, but once in Egypt all is clear for the patriarch. He blessed Pharaoh, as we know, in a dignified way, no cloudiness at all on his spirit as in Pharaoh's presence; he is greater than the monarch. It is as we are in the clear shining of Christ as He is now, that we are greater than the greatest of the world's great ones. All the light of God shines there, all our light is there, not yet Israel's; her light is coming. Isaiah says to Zion, "Arise, shine; for thy light is come". The passage is rendered in Ephesians to fit our case: "Wake up, thou that sleepest, and arise up from among the dead, and the Christ shall shine upon thee". The meaning of it as applied to us shows that it refers to Christ as He is now. All is clear as we are on that side; there are no dark clouds at all. David speaks of the clear shining after rain. Jacob came into it and advanced from glory to glory as in Egypt, coming under the shining of Joseph, rising above him, indeed, Joseph had the temerity to say to his great father, "Not so, my father", when Jacob was about to express divine sovereign counsel, but Jacob held to the light that he had, saying, "I know it, my son". He knew better than Joseph, and Ephraim was to be blessed before Manasseh. There

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was wonderful shining in the patriarch when he was about to die. It is an encouragement to us to see the light that shone in him as he reached his closing days; the energy, too, that marked him, and the words he spoke.

So I am encouraged to address the saints in view of the cloudiness that exists. We are all particularly exposed to it just now. God has caused a cloud to come over the earth. It is no accident. We have prayed against it, but He has seen fit to bring in the cloud, and He would fortify us so that we should not become cloudy. The bow is in the cloud, His bow; it is a sign that all is well. What is above the cloud is for us; the bow betokens that. It is well to accept that we have to do with God, and that we fear God and not man. Joseph said, "I fear God", a reverential fear, not slavish. Man, in the circumstances we are experiencing, is apt to loom large in our vision circumstantially, and it is for us to live in the circumstances of God, and not those of man. Violent, unprincipled men in power, and the devil, too, make the adverse circumstances, and would draw us into them, and darken us. God never leaves His own circumstances, and the Holy Spirit works to keep us there. Even in the days of the first beast of Revelation 13, now very imminent, great as he will be, the whole world wondering after him and saying, Who is like him, who can make war with him?, even in those days faith will live in the circumstances of God; there will be men loving not their lives to death; maintained in God's circumstances and hence dying victoriously in each case.

Now Jacob in Genesis 32 is cloudy, and the chapter shows how we may emerge from cloudiness and uncertainty into the clear shining of a rising dawn, the light of a rising sun. It says here, "The sun rose upon him". It rose for others, of course, but on Jacob. It is always a beautiful figure of Christ.

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David in his inimitable way speaks of Christ "as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race". What a suggestion, what a joyous suggestion that is, that such a One should shine upon us! "Wake up, thou that sleepest, and arise up from among the dead, and the Christ shall shine upon thee". There was the clear shining of the sun, but it was on Jacob. He had just left Laban, a darkening sort of man whose very presence would becloud one, for he apparently usurped the place of his father. Oftentimes a brother does this in the assembly, taking an undue place in the local company and darkening the whole position. Laban, the brother of Rebecca, had more to say about her than her father, as if he was chief in the house, whereas her father was there. When a crisis arose, and Rebecca was challenged as to whether she would go with the man, Laban says, Wait ten days. He represents one who would becloud the position and interfere with the movements of the assembly with the Spirit. Here in Genesis 31:55 Jacob left with good feelings. Early in the morning Laban departs. He did not kiss Jacob, though he kissed his sons and daughters. Jacob was more worthy of the kiss than any. Laban had made bold to claim the grandchildren as over the head of the father. He left a poor testimony, a sort of sign that they were on good terms, but on such terms as prevented their going to each other. They put up a heap of stones; these two men are not to meet any more. No wonder with a man like Laban!

At this juncture God intervenes to assure His child, for Jacob was that, of His faithfulness. The angels of God met him. How different an influence from that of Laban and his company! The angels met him; no more is said. What an assurance of God's faithfulness! It is one of the outstanding features of truth that develops in Jacob's history. When he was going out to Joseph and had anxiety,

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he offered sacrifices to the God of his father Isaac. God appeared to him there, meaning that every promise was Yea and Amen in Christ. It was not the God of his father Abraham, but of Isaac, as if to say: All is well, Jacob; no one promise that I have made shall ever fail. So, in Corinthians, "God is faithful"; every promise in Christ is Yea and Amen, and there is no possible failure in any promise of God. Here the angels met him. What a suggestion this is of God's interest in His servant, for Jacob was that. It was a cloudy time, not only because of Laban, but because of Jacob himself, for double motives were there. I would urge the importance of searching ourselves as to motives. We have to do with the God that searches hearts, not only what we say, but what is in our hearts, the secrets of hearts. The angels met Jacob, as if God would say, My promises are sure. God had promised to be with him without conditions, and is still with him, but on His own terms. He can never deny Himself, not even to express His love. So whilst He is with His child, yet if things are there that should be looked into and dealt with, this must take place.

The angels of God met him, but see the cloudy state of his soul. Jacob sends a message to his brother, flattering him, "Jacob sent messengers before him to Esau his brother unto the land of Seir, the country of Edom" (verse 3). There was no doubt about it who this man is; he is the same Edom that we read of later. He had not developed the unbrotherliness that subsequently marked him, for later God hated this same man. Now Jacob is having to do with a man in whom there was a root of such a character that eventually provoked divine hatred (see Hebrews 12:15, 16). He is a difficult man to deal with. Jacob is not aware of the depth of the root; it was there, as the sequel shows, but Jacob is not dealing with it at all. He knew a

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murderous attitude had been with his brother, and so he sent a messenger, as much as to say, Have some pity on me. "I have sojourned with Laban ...", he says, "and I have oxen, and asses, flocks, and men-servants, and women-servants: and I have sent to tell my lord, that I may find grace in thy sight". Now examine this man's speech, and put yourself in Esau's position with his feelings and history. Will it attract you to Jacob? No. He expects Esau to be affected by his importance. Esau, a man who will never allow a rival, in whose being are the roots of hatred to his brother and who, when developed, becomes an object of hatred to God.

Jacob had serious concern about Esau; his wrestling began here. His wife, too, knew how to wrestle with her sister (Genesis 30:8). Often there are secret wrestlings of rivalry with others. Jacob is in this attitude. The wrestling was ultimately to be, not with Esau, but with God. God is intervening, thrusting Himself in between the two brothers and causing Jacob to wrestle with Him; that is much happier. But meantime he sends this message, and the messengers return, saying, "Esau ... cometh to meet thee, and four hundred men with him". Nothing about the message at all, or what he said in relation to that: there is not much hope now. It is a warning as to our putting on anything that we think might distinguish us, bringing forward what we possess to make us appear great, qualities that we think will give us a place among brethren. No such speech would be accepted by spiritual persons, much less by a rival. These four hundred men are coming with a purpose, but Jacob knew God, and what follows is encouraging as to the way out of a dilemma; first to throw to the winds the substance of such a speech as Jacob made. Let us throw away any such sentiments; they will only provoke hatred, and the damage we dread. Jacob knew God, however. The

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work of God in us is the secret of the outlet from such a dilemma. Jacob turns to prayer, and in prayer Esau would become less and less, and the dread less and less too. In the night hours you get to God in pressure, whether on account of current events, or other things. Every true child of God has something of God, he knows enough to form a basis for prayer, not platitudes but real prayer, with a real basis in spiritual history. Jacob introduces what he knew as having to do with God. There is nothing like it before. He renounces all pride, anything we have that we think may give us a place in the eyes of others. He alludes to God having blessed him; he attributes what he has to God, and bases his prayer on his relation to Abraham, and that God had said to him, "Return into thy country ... and I will do thee good", "I am too small", he says, "for all the loving-kindness and all the faithfulness that thou hast shewn unto thy servant ... . Deliver me, I pray thee, from the hand of my brother". As in the night seasons in pressure you utter such a prayer, based on what God has said and engaged Himself to, instead of fear of your rival, the fear of God will become enlarged in your soul, and the peace of God which passeth all understanding will come with it. There will be a complete revolution inwardly. Living in times of pressure may become the occasion of unbelief and cloudiness in the soul. The outlet is in turning to God. "Look unto me ...". He says, "I am God". Speak to Him, He loves to hear us adduce our reasons for prayer. If valid, He will never deny them, and these are valid in this verse.

Then Jacob thinks of a gift. Instead of being worthy of attention because of what he had, now he is going to part with what he had. He "took of what came to his hand a gift for Esau his brother -- two hundred she-goats, and twenty he-goats; two hundred ewes, and twenty rams; thirty milch camels

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with their colts; forty kine, and ten bulls; twenty she-asses, and ten young asses". He is on the line of giving, for he has been with God. As I am with God, I become like God, for He is a giving God. The Lord says, "If thou knewest the gift of God", to a needy soul. If I am on the principle of giving, I am on the line of deliverance. It is a very important matter for practical enjoyment of God. There must be practical adjustment among the brethren. Instead of the idea that I have a right to be recognised as being a man with so much, I reduce my belongings by gift. God never reduces His. It is very wholesome to reduce my belongings by giving -- I am not speaking literally, but in the principle -- a complete transformation takes place in the soul of the christian, and cloudiness disappears.

Jacob sends his wives over the brook and is left alone, and there wrestled a Man with him until the rising of the dawn. Now he is such a person as is worthy of divine blessing, as if God would say, Jacob, you are a worthy foe. He is not a foe really, but I am using the word as it is often used. He is worthy of God entering into the lists with him. God is taking a personal interest in him, to give him a real understanding of Himself. Think of God struggling with us and giving way, so that we might realise that we have power, as every christian has power with God. Jacob hoped to have power with Esau, but it is power with God we need, and then with men. It is as if God said: Jacob, I am going to give you an opportunity of cementing your position on the principle of giving; I wish to consolidate you and bring you into the lists as a wrestler. It was God in Christ to type, nevertheless God; He is called "a man". In verse 26 it says, "Let me go, for the dawn ariseth". He wished to have it brought to an end. He would say: Jacob, you are gaining. It is a good experience to feel I am gaining with God. I begin on a right

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basis, but I find myself gradually enlarging, so that I can cover the interests of God. He loves that with us, He loves us to prevail. The Man said, "Let me go, for the dawn ariseth". It is a question of bringing Jacob into the clear daylight; he was cloudy like many of us, in cloudy circumstances. As to the inner state of our souls things are not clear, but God knows our genuineness and makes everything clear, so that there is the clear shining after rain. The Christ shines into your soul and there is not a shadow or doubt; nothing baffles you. One knows something of it in the service of God's people, the importance of being clear in our souls as to everything; He will turn aside specifically to anyone who takes up the attitude of turning to Him, and give an opportunity to wrestle and prevail. He is stronger than we, but would encourage us on the line of prayer and solicitation, and will allow us to prevail so that the intercourse we have with God culminates always in enlargement, and in the sense that we have power in our souls with God. He loves that, and would fortify us in it.

The passage goes on, "And when he saw that he did not prevail against him, he touched the joint of his thigh; and the joint of Jacob's thigh was dislocated as he wrestled with him. And he said, Let me go, for the dawn ariseth. And he said, I will not let thee go except thou bless me". Wonderful word! No one really could appreciate it more than God. It is the saint saying: I am gaining with God, and I must have the blessing. God would say: I am with you. It will not add to your pride. Jacob had lost his status as a man after the flesh; he had been relying on it, but he never could any more. He is a lame man, he went over the brook lame, he halted, but he is now knighted, he is a prince ennobled, "Thy name shall not henceforth be called Jacob, but Israel", or prince of God. He is changed from a man in fleshly energy to a spiritual man, and he will

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remain that for ever. Paul said that, on a great occasion, he was caught up to paradise and heard unspeakable words, so great that it was not given to him to utter, but to have in his soul. Such a man as that had no peer on earth. He had this in his soul, and as he comes down to human condition he has the thorn in the flesh lest he be exalted above measure. God did that. So here, He touched Jacob's thigh, put it out of joint, depriving him of what he might boast in after the flesh; he lost that for ever. "When I am weak", Paul said, "then am I strong". The thorn deprived him of what he might have relied on, and possibly did rely on. It seemed very severe, but it brought him to nothing; so he said, when weak and buffeted by Satan, "then am I strong". His speech was said to be contemptible; nevertheless people were converted by it. "Most gladly ... will I ... glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me", 2 Corinthians 12:9.

So here, after having his name changed, Jacob is blessed at this particular time and place. He called the name of that place Peniel: "For I have seen God face to face, and my life has been preserved". In keeping with other passages, as seeing God, one continues, endures as seeing Him who is invisible. As to what is natural it is losing one's life, but "whosoever shall lose his life for my sake shall find it", Matthew 16:25. A complete transformation is implied, and, as Jacob passed over Peniel, "The sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh". That is the position; there is clear shining now, the sun rising upon him, but he halts upon his thigh. He is a broken man after the flesh, "We which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake". We emerge from cloudiness into shining. Jacob had much to go through later, but here he reaches a remarkable experience, made lame, weakened as a man in this world, but having the sun rising upon him.

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INSTRUMENTS MADE FOR THE SERVICE OF GOD

1 Chronicles 23:5; Acts 3:8; Acts 16:25; Mark 14:26

J.T. What is in mind is to call attention to musical instruments. The verse in Chronicles and similar verses elsewhere make allusion to these, "Four thousand praised Jehovah with the instruments which I made, said David, to praise therewith". One counts on the Lord to help us to recognise how these are seen antitypically in the New Testament, and particularly in the verses read. Christ, being the antitype of David, has made instruments for the service of God. In detail we have the lame man (Acts 3), walking and leaping and praising God, the immediate result of divine power. A man lame from birth, and dependent on a bed for his support, is now praising God, a change having come about, an act of divine power through Peter, he being only an instrument. So through Christ, Paul and Silas similarly are seen engaged in this service; in the most trying circumstances they are instruments of service to praise God. Then in Mark we read they sang a hymn; this is allied with the Lord's supper, growing out of it. The disciples did it to bring out this point that they were made by the true David instruments of music. It is a question of what each one is, whether they are this or not. The divine thought is that each one should be an instrument of music, each one a product, so to say, of David himself. The actual number of Levites is spoken of here. It says, verse 2, "And he gathered together all the princes of Israel, with the priests and the Levites. And the Levites were numbered from thirty years old and upward; and their number, by their polls, man by man, was thirty-eight thousand". It is a levitical matter in

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the fullest sense, as it is a question of their being thirty years old and upward. Their number is mentioned and it says "man by man".

Rem. The number of doorkeepers is equal to the number of players.

J.T. It is very obvious that door-keeping has to be maintained if there are to be singers; the occupation would have four sides, as mentioned here, all referring to one person. Then the age is given, an allusion to manhood. Twenty-four thousand presided over the work of the house; then there are six thousand officers and judges, which would allude to what is judicial; then four-thousand door-keepers who would keep out evil. The prime thought is the praising. These four features ought to apply to each of us. There is the actual work as to the house, then the officers and judges would allude to government apparent in every christian ruling himself and taking charge of himself then there is the keeping out of evil, and the praise.

Rem. Carelessness in door-keeping would hinder the praise.

J.T. The praise is apt to be mixed with human sentiment and corrupted, as in popular hymn-singing. It is a refined thought God is aiming at. Other services come in, but the main thought, the end in mind in all service and levitical work, is that God shall be praised. The enquiry arises first of all as to the instruments; it is a question of being made, not yet used. We come later to the skilled musician; the thought runs through the books of the Old Testament which have to do with the service of God. Habakkuk gives a most refined touch, "He will make me to walk upon my high places. To the chief Musician. On my stringed instruments". He is entirely above all the circumstances of calamity or pressure (see chapter 3: 17). It is one of the finest touches allied with what we have in the actual use

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of instruments; it is Christ in assembly, taking on what we have got. Habakkuk signifies a believer (the only one who speaks directly of faith in the Old Testament) who has been through discipline. He says to God, as to the Chaldeans, "Thou ... hast appointed him for correction" (chapter 1: 12). His production is doleful, but he comes to a point superior to his circumstances and says, "Jehovah, the Lord, is my strength", and then the chief Musician comes into view. That is how we come into the thing in practice, but the point is the making of the instruments. David was the sweet psalmist of Israel; a great part of his ministry consisted in composing psalms and setting them to music. It is only in that connection he is called a man of God, showing how important the matter is (2 Chronicles 8:14, and Nehemiah 12:24). All this corresponds with the last scripture read in Mark, where they sang a hymn, a spiritual thought fitting in after the Lord's supper was instituted.

Ques. Would the making of the instruments be through discipline?

J.T. Discipline has a great deal to do with it. The man in Acts 3 was acted on by divine power, so he became immediately a vessel of praise. One would like to hear him give out a hymn and start the tune.

Rem. This involves the personal handling of each of us.

J.T. Yes, "I will make thee". 'Make' is the key word. The Lord makes us accurately; in truth each one comes under His hand for a variety of service, but the most refined service is the praise of God. Numbers and Exodus give a very high-class people potentially. Twenty-three thousand Levites are mentioned in Numbers 26:62, and here thirty-eight thousand are actually taken on for service, numbered from thirty years old and upward, signifying

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the Levite at his best. The Levite is a question of God's sovereign selection, the very best, taken instead of the firstborn. The thought of the firstborn comes down from Exodus: "Israel is my son, even my firstborn". It is a question of dignity and quality. Each Levite is a firstborn; they are the assembly of the firstborn, and that enters into our praises. When the disciples came back to the Lord and said the demons were subject to them, He said, Do not glory in this. God's sovereign selection comes into view in giving us this dignity in the divine family. The number twenty-four runs through this section, involving that we are under Christ, but in love, so that He can use us at His pleasure. In verse 1, David makes Solomon king. He sits on the throne with his father. We can see how the service of God is linked up with sonship; hence the importance of the idea of the firstborn. The Levites in that sense are all firstborn.

Rem. There is a variety of musical instruments.

J.T. Yes, the harp, lute and cymbal, and so on (chapter 15: 16). Then verse 19, "The singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, to sound aloud with cymbals of brass", Verse 22: "Chenaniah, chief of the Levites for the music, gave instruction in music, for he was skilful". So we have indication of variety, but it gradually comes down to the harp only, the musical instrument used in heaven, which is our matter. It is the most exalted instrument used in music.

Rem. The crowd of names in Acts suggests variety.

J.T. Yes, each had its distinction. Name means distinction. It is a question of what each of us is, what we are made. We must go back to divine wisdom, the selection made of the saints, the disposition being according to divine wisdom, "Whom he has called, these also he has justified; but whom he has justified, these also he has glorified". Glorification

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would include personal distinction, but He does it. It is a question of divine workmanship.

In Acts 3 it is noteworthy how the man immediately became an instrument. Peter was only an instrument to make this man what he was, to change him from a poor, lame beggar to an instrument of praise. Paul and Silas in prison praised God with singing when they might have been depressed or resentful. The praise could not be repressed by circumstances.

Ques. What is the idea of strings?

J.T. The idea is each string represents some note. The point is they are to be used; the player can sing and play at the same time with such a high-class instrument. With a wind instrument he cannot, he can only produce music. So in Revelation 14, we have a mighty volume of voices as of harp-singers harping with their harps. It is a tremendous volume of sound, and yet distinguishable; they can use the harp and sing, and yet the song in heaven can only be learnt by one family on earth.

Ques. Is the one leper who returned to give thanks an illustration of an individual being made?

J.T. Yes, he returned to give praise. Luke furnishes more instruction as to this than any other New Testament writer. He was a priestly writer, his treatise beginning with Zacharias and Elizabeth; as the voice of the Lord's mother fell on Elizabeth's ear she praised God. Mary herself praises, and Zacharias does, and the shepherds, and so right through to the end, when they were continually in the temple praising and blessing God, the great end in mind being that man should glorify God. Compare the last verse of the Psalms, "Let everything that hath breath praise the Lord", that is the great end in mind. So everyone is to challenge himself: Has David anything to do with me? or am I dumb in the assembly? David's chief qualification as a youth was he could play well and help relieve Saul,

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but here four thousand praise Jehovah, that is the thing to get hold of. We are in the Lord's hand with this in mind. Some like to teach, and some to preach, and these are right desires, but who has in his heart to praise God? That is an eternal employ when others have ceased.

Ques. How does the Spirit come into this matter?

J.T. It is a question of the economy, the Spirit of God enters into the divine economy. The Son and the Spirit have become subservient to the Father so that God shall be praised. The Son is an object of praise, but the great thought is the Father; and the Son and the Spirit are positionally subordinate to secure this. The Lord exercises different functions at the Supper: lordship, priesthood, headship, ministerial service of the sanctuary, the conducting of worship. The Spirit is the power, and functions differently. He is the Spirit of the Lord, involving authority, and also the Spirit of adoption, so there is great variety in the economy. The great end is instruments under the Lord's hand and the production of praise to God.

Rem. This would be applicable to us week by week.

J.T. Week by week is the way time is regulated for assembly service. The Jewish time is a year, a spiritual year, the passover occurring at the beginning, and the feast of tabernacles at the end, the latter being a most happy season on the fifteenth of the seventh month, a season in which they were to be wholly joyful. Now we have a week, the service is weekly, as in John 20 the Lord came in as His saints were in a certain place, and eight days after also, a suggestion of the period governing divine service. Leviticus 23 would indicate a new meat-offering brought in. The dispensation began with Christ as the meat-offering, and the Spirit having come in at Pentecost, saints are viewed as a new meat-offering accepted by God. It is a question of what we are by

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the work of God in us, and would include all we are speaking of, what each one is as come under the hand of Christ for divine service. So each Lord's day we have freshness and variation in spiritual understanding and power.

Rem. We should rise above what is personal.

J.T. The man in Acts 3 is immediately engaged with God. He is now in better circumstances, but he is not obsessed with the great relief come to him, he is leaping and praising God. He is obviously a product of Christ through Peter; he is a made instrument. And what after this? A great vessel or instrument of praise in the assembly.

The two men in Acts 16 were under great pressure of circumstances and yet in prayer they praised God with singing, showing they too were made instruments of praise. Then in a collective sense the group in Mark 14 sang a hymn, as if the Spirit of God brings this before us as a result of His workmanship, the idea of praise being in relation to the Lord's supper. The singing began in relation to that, a warrant for all we do at the present time, proceeding to praise after the Supper.

Rem. Romans 15 connects praise with the nations.

J.T. Yes, that chapter significantly written to Roman christians brings in the nations as praising God, as the apostle says, "Because of the grace given to me by God, for me to be minister of Christ Jesus to the nations" (verse 15). So we can see how the nations are brought into His praise. We are here today offered up as a sacrificial service for praise. What we have said is plain as showing God is bent on having us engaged in His service, and if so we must be under the hand of Christ. So the apostle says, "There are gods many, and lords many, yet to us there is one God, the Father ... and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him". He has created us, made us to bring us in to God. God the great

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Operator; the great object in mind being that He should be praised.

Rem. 2 Chronicles 20:19 speaks of the Levites praising at a time of conflict.

J.T. The passage shows that the praises of God enter into conflict. In every proceeding in the assembly we have conflict, but we must not ignore the rights of God. It is a great victory if the praise of God does go on. In verse 22 when they began the song of triumph, Jehovah set liers-in-wait against the enemy. It is an important side to what we are speaking of. Paul and Silas showed they were not overcome by their circumstances. The salvation of the man was the outcome, they turned the gaol into a sanctuary. In Matthew and Mark going to the mount of Olives is the action of the disciples; it is the mutual side, the saints themselves acting; it points to the result in ourselves of the Lord's supper, a mutual movement preceding the leading of Christ. Matthew and Mark show the power in the saints as the Supper is instituted to move out themselves. The mutual side resulting from the Lord's supper partaken of enables us to move in song. Matthew and Mark omit the memorial. They give the eating, so they are constitutionally equal to move themselves; they are built up on the collective side. Dan leaped from Bashan.

Ques. What would be the effect of the singing of the hymn?

J.T. It results in a happy state; drinking of the cup promotes happiness. We go from glory to glory in the service of God, and I believe the singing of the hymn is a mutual thought involving power of soul. We move to a spiritual realm; we do not move physically, it is a spiritual state. It indicates the happiness which enters into our relations with God. It affords conditions for the Lord to take on what He has in mind. Eating in Matthew and Mark is to

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build up the spiritual constitution. Weakness exists largely because eating is absent.

The enquiry is raised in the Song of Songs 3:6, "Who is this, she that cometh up from the wilderness like pillars of smoke, perfumed with myrrh and frankincense, with all powders of the merchant?" Not here leaning on her beloved. She is moving in her own power; it is the thought of the Spirit for us. Then Solomon is made room for -- "Behold his couch, Solomon's own". Then in chapter 8: 5 it says, "Who is this that cometh up from the wilderness, leaning upon her beloved? I awoke thee under the apple-tree: there thy mother brought thee forth". It is not the Spirit now, but leaning on Christ, "I awoke thee"; she is brought up. It is the assembly under the influence of Christ and the new covenant. It enters into our liberty. The question is asked in both cases, "Who is this?" Have we part in this -- coming up in our own strength, making way for Solomon, then leaning upon Him? Then this question is asked, can we answer? It is saints in relation to the Lord's supper, then leaning on Christ. There is nothing of the service of God touched on in this book; it is a question of Christ and the saints, but Solomon ordered the service of the temple, so he has it in mind.

Rem. The sacrifices would be habitual.

J.T. Yes, like pillars of smoke. The wind has not scattered it. It is something spiritually substantial, it can be seen as a pillar, it is an evidence of the love of the saints in their sacrifices. The thing develops in assembly service. We move mutually or there are not conditions for Christ to take on. The first reference to the wilderness means love is there, there is a testimony to it. It brings out a constitution set up in the Spirit, the bride moving in her own power. She is brought before us in this distinguished way, but the mutual side is there, and a way made for

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Solomon. Then she leans on Christ, that is the making side, brought up under the apple-tree. The mutual thing is of prime importance, the drinking of the cup would promote great felicity of feeling, so that the Lord would take us on for His holy purposes. (See 2 Chronicles 5:13, 14.) It is a sublime thought, not simply unity in one song, but you get the actual wording. In Mark it only says they sang a hymn, but look at the wording here: "For he is good; for his loving-kindness endureth for ever". See what it means, it is a great refrain, showing it is really divine service, supreme divine service. What happens after the Lord's Supper would lead to this. We do not know what they sang then, it may have been Psalm 113; we are not told. Here we have the actual wording.

Rem. As to John 20.

J.T. There it is the abstract side, there is no discrepancy at all, so the Lord speaks of the Father. It is a question of sending them out, He speaks of service immediately.

Rem. The glory filled the house.

J.T. Yes, the service was entirely acceptable to God. The woods and metals in Solomon's temple would allude to the saints as made, as wholly spiritual. That is my thought, God occupying these people as after Christ. God loves to hear our voices in praise, but as having come under the hand of Christ.

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DIVINE MAKING

Jeremiah 18:1 - 10; Jeremiah 19:1 - 4, 10 - 12; Romans 9:23, 24; Revelation 22:10 - 15

It is in view to speak of divine making, as to what has been made divinely and sovereignly, vessels of mercy indeed as they are called in Romans, prepared for glory -- the pattern of each item originating in the divine mind. The result in the making, therefore, must imply that each fits into his place, for it is said that whom God has foreknown "he has also predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son". God had His Son in mind in foreknowing and predestinating, that each of His own might fill a place in that great day when there will be no discrepancies, but each will be in his place among Christ's brethren and as conformed to the image of God's Son, so that Christ should be the firstborn among many brethren, as the word says. Foreknowledge and predestination were before time, they were matters of God's own counsel. Calling is in time; whom He has called, He has justified, all from the divine side, so that there should be nothing to jar or to grieve the divine eye or mind. Reconciliation is involved, the ministry of reconciliation being given to the apostle with other ministries. Ministries given to him are of the highest order, including the mystery, in which are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. What a treasure to any man is such a ministry! So reconciliation is implied in this formation; whom He has called, those He has justified and glorified. Glorification implies that the person is worthy, he is suitable for it; it is in the suitability that the workmanship is seen. We read of an exceeding weight of glory, meaning that the persons glorified are great enough to sustain the glory, vessels of mercy indeed prepared

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for glory, "even us", the apostle says, including ourselves. What a touch that is! And not only among the Jews, God has let in the gentiles, but in order that they should be formed after the highest pattern, for the idea of making implies one new man. "To make in himself of twain one new man" -- it is a collective thought embracing Jew and gentile. Christ has effected this wonderful achievement, to make in Himself of twain one new man, so we ourselves are let in according to the administration given to Peter. We come into the hands of the greater administrator, namely Paul; he speaks of himself as a personality of a peculiar order. Peter does not. The Spirit of God obliged Paul to speak of himself, not that he had any taste for it. One who said he was less than the least of all saints would not glory in himself. He was impressed to speak of himself by the power of inspiration. "Being such a one as Paul the aged", he says. He is handing over a convert of a first-class order, a brother beloved, transformed from a slave to a brother beloved, what workmanship! In remarking on it he says, "Being such a one as Paul the aged", a tried workman with God, a wise architect as regards the structure, laying the foundation. So he has a peculiar personality. Peter lets the gentiles in according to divine appointment, and the Holy Spirit falls on them as he speaks, so that the workmanship is of the highest order, "In whom ye also are builded together", the word says. This attaches to the gentiles. Almost since the beginning the work of God has proceeded among the gentiles. We can hardly speak of the Jew now. This great workman, Paul, was on the scene and the gentiles came in, so we find such material as the deputy of Cyprus. It was no accident that such a man was deputy at the time. Alongside him was a terrible man, one of the worst, namely Bar-Jesus. On him Paul fixed his eyes judicially and he was put out of

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the way, a man who pretended to be son of Jesus. The deputy was suitable material for the great purpose on hand, fitted for the assembly here below, a vessel of mercy, an intelligent man, so that as he saw what happened he was amazed at the teaching of the Lord. This man was ready for the new teaching and was subject to it, being a great dignitary himself. And then we have another, Lydia. It is said of her that the Lord opened her heart, a very fine bit of work, to attend to the things spoken by Paul, the greatest of all servants. She was honoured, but God was honouring the servant too, and bringing out the quality of his service as well as material in vessels. How can we be in glory save as our hearts are now opened to attend to the things spoken by Paul, not only to listen, but to attend?

Reverting to what is being made, now is the time for the formation of vessels for glory. I would appeal to everyone as to whether he is in the making, plastic material, renouncing his own will, handing himself or herself over for this, not replying against God, not saying, Why hast Thou made me thus? Each one may well say he has no moral right to do it. God is infinite, we are creatures; it is our wisdom, therefore, to be subject. The principle of the dispensation is obedience of faith for all the nations (Romans 16:26). Exodus is a making book. Note the number of times the word 'make' is used, look at the making, and the persons used in the making. The word is used some 190 times. What does it mean? Why the repetition? Because God is delighting in what He is doing, and doing according to the pattern; nothing is made otherwise, and Christ is the Pattern. For forty days God was unfolding the pattern in its varied glories to Moses, and everything was to be made according to it. After those days Jehovah introduces a word in regard of the sabbath not used before or since, the word 'refreshed', Exodus 31:17. That is

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at the end of the forty days in the mount when God enlarges on the sabbath, stating in strongest terms that it must be kept. He insists on it. How can there be material for divine workmanship except we lie fallow, having our minds and faculties under control and absorbing, letting God use us for His purposes? That is the point of Exodus. First what is required to be made, then what was made, then all passes under Moses' hand. Everything was brought to Moses and approved, so that it is in the tabernacle according to pattern. One would urge young people to be in the hand of the Lord. Men skilled in wisdom and selected by the Lord are at work, and we are to be 'Lydias'. The "things spoken by Paul" allude to the pattern, and all is being "prepared for glory". It is the making time of grace and sovereign selection.

So the first passage in Jeremiah includes a house. The prophet is sent to the potter's house. People who go to college to be educated for the ministry know nothing of this. It is not the sphere for it, the Potter has not chosen the university for His operations. If a professor of divinity is a spiritual man, he could be pointed to by the lecturer, but he may be unregenerate and a modernist, and yet turning out men for the ministry. Whereas the idea is a model, "Be ye followers of me", the apostle says. He is forced to bring himself forward as the living model. The Lord says, "Learn from me". Not simply that He teaches, but He is the model. So here, it is a house that is before us, "Arise and go down to the potter's house ... and I went down to the potter's house; and behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. And the vessel that he made was marred, as clay, in the hand of the potter; and he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make". How many marred vessels there are! It is what we are naturally, but the vessel is not thrown away, it is made "as clay", that is, the idea remains. Man is a

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divine conception. Before ever there was a human being, the conception was in the heart of God. Christ is the prime thought of God in humanity; Adam is not the full thought. So the idea here is retained, not thrown away. "As seemed good to the potter to make", it says. That is what is going on, the kind of vessel that suits God. The idea remains but there is a marring element, the natural man is marred by sin. If God brings a flood on the earth the antediluvians are destroyed, but eight are carried through in the ark. Man is not destroyed, the idea is not destroyed; it is God making what pleases Him. Where are we as to this? Many of us have been marred in the making. Is it not wisdom to humble ourselves and let the Potter proceed with us? Even if a man were put away in 1 Corinthians it supposes this process; God would not give him up: "That the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus", as if He said, You are marred, and your responsibility will enter into this, but I am still making; the machinery is going on. Why not return? why not be in His hands? He will start again with the clay; the idea is in you, it is indestructible, and the Potter will make something that pleases Him. Can anyone then afford to move about not pleasing Him? One abominates the thought. If God is re-making, it must be on His own terms, as pleases Him.

Alas! the next chapter describes a bottle already made. That is to say, we have the making in chapter 18, and in chapter 19 a vessel made for destruction, a most terrible thing. As we draw near to the end of the dispensation these things are in appearance, what God is making for His pleasure, and what is made just now. Revelation 22:11 describes the position, "Let him that does unrighteously do unrighteously still". Think of God saying of a man, He is unjust, let him be unjust still. What does it mean? Is it possible that I have reached such a

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point, that it is a fixed matter? It is. I have never judged myself, I have pretended to do so, but returned to my wallowing in the mire. There have been holy, righteous people alongside of me, and they are to continue in these features. Let him that is righteous practise righteousness still. If they are righteous, they are to continue in it. It is a question of God's government. Can we tie His hands day in and day out all our lives? He would say in the end, I can deal with that, and leave you just where you are. At the same time it is making time. So we have, "Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have right to the tree of life, and that they should go in by the gates into the city". The city is there and gates; there is a within and a without -- who is outside? The list is given, a terrible list: "Without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone that loves and makes a lie". Then there are the people who go in. Who are the inside ones? Vessels of mercy prepared for glory. They are justifying God now. He has justified them through the death of Jesus, now they are justifying Him, and how? By going in through the gates, because they wash their robes. Everyone who washes is justifying God, a most important side of the truth in these last days. The city comes into view and the gates; they are one pearl, a great unifying thought. If not in fellowship in Auckland, I cannot be in Sydney, or in London. Those who are justifying God are washing their robes. In chapter 7 they have done it, in chapter 1 it is Christ who has washed us, but in chapter 22 we do it, and regularly; it is never undone. It is a constant thing, we are always to be up to date in washing, over against unrighteous and filthy men. With such, the state is fixed, the word says, Let him remain, "If any be ignorant, let him be ignorant"; it is not optional, "Our God is a consuming fire";

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"God is not mocked". People assume that things are optional; not at all. There comes a moment when, so to speak, you cross the line and the matter is fixed. So each one has to challenge himself. On the other hand, they are blessed who wash their robes and enter through the gates into the city, and the tree of life is available to such.

This confirms chapter 19 of Jeremiah. No grace at all is contemplated, no re-making at all. Chapter 19 is a chapter of judgment, whereas in chapter 18 the explanation is after the parable, a way is open for re-making; but in chapter 19 there is no house, it is a fixed matter, a question of the potter's earthen bottle, and the prophet is to go forth to the valley of Tophet. What a different picture: a made bottle, not one in the making, but taken to the place of judgment and there broken! So that God is speaking to us in this closing moment as to what He is doing sovereignly and in grace, preparing for glory. Apostasy, on the other hand, has begun, the great religious apostasy, the mystery of iniquity. Are God's hands tied? Is He not free to act judicially? He is free, and He is doing it; there is no mistake. So Jeremiah 19 calls attention to the fact that there is no relief, the bottle is broken where Tophet is, the place of judgment; it is solemn, most solemn. One would love to have the solemnity of God's punitive dealing at the present time spread abroad. We get a solemn word in John 3, "He that is not subject to the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him". People have returned to paganism. God is dealing with these matters, though real judgment is still pending, waiting till the iniquity of the Amorites is full.

So that if a man reaches a point beyond which God cannot go on with him, the word is, Let him be unjust still. On the other hand, as walking in practical righteousness by the Spirit, we are to continue in that.

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It says in 1 Corinthians 11, "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep", and John speaks of a man who has sinned who is not to be prayed for. One may reach such a stage, even a nominal christian, when the Spirit of God says he is not to be prayed for. You say to a brother, Pray for me, but can you add anything to that? Can you say as the apostle did, For I trust I have a good conscience? You have no moral right to ask for the prayers of the saints otherwise. The gracious dealings of God are going on preparing vessels for glory. The end of all things is approaching when antichrist will be acknowledged, "whom the Lord Jesus shall consume with the breath of his mouth, and shall annul by the appearing of his coming". Meantime God is telling us to beware that we do not go too far, and belong to those without. Have you any feeling as to being without? Think what company you are in! "What have I to do to judge them also that are without?" the apostle says; God judges them. What I have to do with is what is within, to see that conditions among us are holy. The tree of life is there for those who wash their robes.

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PARENTS AND THEIR CHILDREN

1 Kings 14:1 - 6; 2 Kings 4:18 - 21; 2 Samuel 12:15 - 23; Luke 8:49 - 56

The word tonight will bear on parents and their children. I have selected Jeroboam and his wife to remark on them first as representing an apostate condition. We are living in apostate times, not yet the fulness of apostasy, but it is in progress and increasing in rapidity. Being in apostasy, or a falling away, as the apostle says, contemplates what was at one time of God, and nothing is more of God than christianity viewed in its inception, and viewed too, in its abstract connection to the end of its history on earth. There is still in it something of God, although relatively small, but still our presence here tonight testifies that there is yet something of God. There are those who revere Him and respect His word; the generality of the profession is, at least in principle, apostate; some so-called christian nations, altogether so. Three hundred million Mohammedans also have to be regarded under this heading; modernism is of this character, and rapidly spreading; besides there is that system of great antiquity that claims everything of christianity and of God, and yet itself is marked by the workings of the mystery of iniquity. It is a mystery; it is not open. It is not flagrant, like Mohammedanism and other things such as modernism and communism, but still the working is there. All this is represented in the house of Jeroboam. It has its beginning as prophesied by Ahijah, the prophet who had to do with Jeroboam. It is remarkable how everything that is of God is connected with prophecy. We read of Israel coming out of Egypt by a prophet, and christianity, of course, is founded on the apostles and prophets. The house of Jeroboam was recognised in this way, God honouring

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him with prophetic ministry in the prophet Ahijah, and here the same prophet is speaking to his wife, God directing him what to say. The same thing applies to christendom, the prophetic ministry goes on, it may be in great weakness, as with Ahijah who is blind. You hear little of him except as to his relations with Jeroboam who has recourse to him, but not to obtain help in his soul; he directs his wife to go to him in disguise, all being in keeping with the character of things he headed.

It was an apostate order of things, representing death, for there was a death adder in the field, affecting the horses so that the riders fell backward. That was the state of things, but then God has respect to His prophet, and to what He Himself had ordered at the beginning of this regime, and now He is showing that sovereignly He has something. He has this child, but He is not going to use him to restore or recover things in Israel; there is no hope of that. We may rest assured there will not be another reformation, in fact, we might say there never was one, for it is not God's way to restore what becomes apostate. What is called the reformation was not really that. There was a certain betterment of things, and certain assertions of Scripture, but the principle was not reformation in the true sense and in the sense of restoring things according to God; so that Jeroboam's child is not to be used of God at all, at least in the sense of helping his house or his kingdom. In that way, I think we are reminded in this particular case of the apostasy that is current, but that God still has something. There is no credit to the parents in this matter, and no credit to the kingdom over which Jeroboam ruled, but all credit is to God. That is the point one would stress. It is the sovereign action of God in our time. He has one child here, now sick and ready to die, but still there is some good in him, and this is to be recognised by all Israel, for he is to

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have a burial. We are told in Ecclesiastes that if a man has no burial it were better he had never been born. The whole house of Jeroboam is to be without a burying and is to be treated like dung. How God expresses His abhorrence of apostasy, a turning away! How He pours His contempt on it! Perhaps I speak to some who may be aroused afresh, if not already, to the actual state of things, and to the abhorrence of God in regard to all that is current about us, and yet there is something that is not accredited to the system. We are told here that this child is to be buried, and that he is the only one, "And thou, arise, go to thine own house; when thy feet enter into the city, the child shall die", 1 Kings 14:12. This shows what the mother is, that she has no power at all to help her child, nor has the father, and the apostasy is not a little due to the lack of right parental feelings and care. The prophet tells her to go to her house, and that as soon as she enters the city the child will die. What a reflection on a mother -- no power at all; in fact, the point to be stressed is that she has no power. The child would die, the prophet says, and all Israel shall mourn for him and bury him. He is to have a burial. As I said before, the rest of the house of Jeroboam is to be treated like dung. Burial is honourable, and the burial of this child brings out the affection or respect that there was for such a child. This thing was not done in a corner, for the child is known, and God would have him to be known. How does it come about that the child was known? He is now sick and about to die, and we are told, "All Israel shall mourn for him, and they shall bury him; for he only of Jeroboam shall come to the grave, because in him there is found something good toward Jehovah the God of Israel, in the house of Jeroboam". No credit to Jeroboam, no credit to his wife, it is God. This child is signalised by a

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burial as over against all others of the house of Jeroboam, who are not so honoured. I speak briefly on that point so that our minds may be directed into a wide channel in regard of what I have to say of the other three scriptures, so that parents may have their attention arrested as to their children in the apostasy, and whether God has to look after each child Himself, or whether He is to use the parents to do so. We see in Matthew how the latter is the divine principle even in regard to the Lord Jesus. The angel says, "Arise, take to thee the little child and his mother, and flee into Egypt". The little Child is defenceless yet, but the mother is with it; the little Child is first, then the mother. He moves under divine direction. God could have taken care of the little Child, for He was in truth the ark of the covenant carried carefully by the Levites. Now it is the father taking the little Child and its mother, not the father alone, the father's influence alone is like one hand, while the mother is the other hand, and this is the full divine thought in family care and culture.

Joseph fulfils his charge. Matthew makes much more of Joseph than of Mary; Luke more of Mary, but the gospel of Matthew is the assembly gospel, and contains great general principles of government, and the principle is the father and mother, but in the case of Jesus it is the little Child before the mother. Matthew develops the idea of children, and shows that they become the means of perfecting praise, which is a remarkable word from the lips of Jesus Himself, "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou established praise", Psalm 8:2. Perfected it. We hardly get that until we come to the New Testament, but it is presented by David, the sweet psalmist of Israel, but the perfecting of praise is to be in the mouths of babes and sucklings. So the mouths should be cared for and the filth of the street should not be allowed to pass in and out of them, and in

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the schools, too, they require this care. They should be carefully and holily kept for the truth, for the children of believing parents are holy, in a potential sense, and should be kept on that principle, so that in their time they may be perfecting the praises of God. The parents come in for a great place, especially the mothers. We have in Matthew Rachel weeping for her children, because they were not (chapter 2: 18), in a powerful voice carried down from Jeremiah to remind parents of the need of care of their little ones, so that they should not be lost to us, and that God Himself should not be obliged to look after them solely for the parents. He does it. He did it in the case of Abijah, the son of Jeroboam. Who else did it? Not Jeroboam nor his wife -- it was God.

When we go back to David in 2 Samuel, we have not a Jeroboam, thank God! We have a great servant, a father, and I bring him forward here because of the child also dying; he was sick. For David's sin Jehovah smote the child that Urijah's wife bore to David and it became very sick, so that we might have a better David and a better father. In truth we could scarcely have the father of Solomon without all this, as it is the education of the parent to make him really a father. God goes to great lengths to make fathers; true fathers are scarce, true mothers more scarce. After this we find David with a son named Solomon, who could say, "For I was a son unto my father, tender and an only one in the sight of my mother", Proverbs 4:3. What an asset in the testimony of God was Solomon! We could scarcely have had him without this experience, and what an experience! It was a father who sinned, but he knew God. How solemn it is that the knowledge of God in itself did not prevent this, for David knew God. The knowledge of God is doubly laid in his soul, and whatever happens to such a man, or such a woman,

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there is the possibility, the potentiality, yea, the certainty, of making that father and that mother a better father and a better mother, for that is the principle with God; it is betterment whatever happens. God is not honouring or condoning the flesh in David, but honouring His own work. One often wonders how God can speak of David's being a man after His own heart, but it is that David was such a subject of the work of God. Let us allow God to work in us, dear brethren. It is not simply that I am prayed for, or praying for myself, but God's answers to prayers. Give Him occasion to answer prayers, that is the principle. David gave God opportunity to answer prayer as well as praying for himself and others.

Now he has reached the crisis of his life, for something terrible has happened, but he knows God and whatever happens in the man, the parent, the father, the mother, or children, the knowledge of God will stand by us. Hence as the scripture says, "Let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me". If you know God you will have recourse to Him, hence we find how beautifully David recognises God. He lay down on the earth and humbled himself. Nathan says, 'You are the man, David'. His sin was portrayed before his eyes and in his ears by Nathan, and Nathan says, "Thou art the man", and David says, "I have sinned against the Lord". There is no holding back, no excusing of himself; he candidly owns it and the prophet says, "The Lord also hath put away thy sin". The prophets not only tell what God will do if we do not judge ourselves, but they tell us what He will do when we do judge ourselves. It is all a matter of ministry to bring out the grace of God. Nathan was able to do both by God's grace, to convict the sinner and tell the sinner that God had put away his sin, 'Thou shalt not die, but the child shall die'.

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There is no hope for the child in that sense, but David lies on the earth and hears the whispering of the servants. What a keen man he was in the exercise of his senses. The whispering of his servants, he decided, meant the death of the child. What a solemn word that is! God acts in our children, not on their own account, but on ours. One has seen it. It is no reflection or punishment on the child; the child is saved I have not a doubt. David says, "I shall go to him". The punishment was not on the child, but it was for David, the servant that was to live, the parent of further children; the father of the great Solomon was still to live, the discipline was for him. God is dealing with us in great or small ways constantly, and He is aiming at productions in our children that are usable to Him. Apostasy is very largely because of the want of parentage, firstly of the paternity of God rightly apprehended and reflected in others, and, secondly of the motherhood of the assembly, and that reflected in others, so that the idea of a production for God is continued. In the apostasy God has recourse to Himself and He brings in this child Abijah, the only one in the whole system with something good, but still it is there. Now He has David under His hand and has wrought in him in a most extraordinary way and is going to make him such a father as he had never been before. David's families were the saddest spectacles in Scripture, 2 Samuel presents one of the saddest spectacles in Scripture of parentage and family, "Although my house be not so before God, yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in every way and sure", 2 Samuel 23:5. David was now restful in God, but he has lost his family. It is a most distressing thought that a man like David should have lost his family, but he secures a Solomon, who said, "I was a son unto my father, tender and an only one in the sight of my mother". God says, "I will be his father, and

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he shall be my son", and every honour is given to David in that respect. Solomon is taken over by God, and surely every right-minded father and mother would aim at that. Can my children be taken over by God? He took over Solomon and used him in the most exalted way, David bowing to it. God will say, 'Can I take your son, is he ready? How was he brought up?' David had learned his lesson. The child is dead, he says, and he worshipped. Think of the result in the man's soul brought about so quickly in such an experience, that he worships. How rapidly the recovery took place; and now he has a son taken over, named Solomon by David, named Jedidiah by Jehovah, who loved him. We want to have the double naming. It is not what the son or daughter is to gain, but what he is to God. Jehovah sent Nathan and named him Jedidiah because Jehovah loved him and is going to have him. The other child is gone; David says, "I shall go to him, but he will not return to me". Solomon is given after the discipline of the father. How great the need is, dear brethren, for parentage and watchfulness, that the children do not die before our eyes, never to be restored again. I am speaking now of spiritual death, as you will understand; and this brings us to 2 Kings 4, where we have a mother by prophetic message.

The family begins with the prophet and an only boy. It is a prophetic matter. And when the boy grew up he went out to his father to the reapers, and while out there he began to feel illness in his head and cried, "My head, my head!", to his father. His father could do nothing. This is a household where the mother is prominent, the wife being more spiritual than her husband. She is a remarkable woman, and indeed is called a great woman. She is also an observant woman. She had a house, and she saw the prophet Elisha passing the door and wondered what he was doing. Her husband did not appear to

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have seen him, or if he did, he paid no attention to him, but the woman was observant of the man who passed by her door regularly. She was sufficiently interested to find out what he was doing, and she called him a holy man of God, perhaps the only one ever called that. There may have been many men of God, but this one was called a holy man of God, and she proposes to her husband to make provision for him so that he might turn into her house. She built a room on the wall and put into the room a table, a bed and a candlestick. She is worthy of a son, and did not have one. She would entertain the saints, and it is a poor sister who does not entertain the saints and have pleasure in doing it. She would entertain a holy man of God, but she would not expect to be entertained herself by stories told by the servant. Her husband agrees to the building of the room; he is a passive husband, and would not make a good father, for the husband must be head always, that is the divine way. The woman here is taking the lead and she stands in the doorway, we are told. The servant Gehazi is a talkative man, and later told stories to the king about his master after he was dismissed, not a wholesome element in these matters. Still he suggested to the prophet that the woman did not have a son, and that she was worthy of one, because she was such a great woman. I have no doubt that she is a continuance morally of the wife of the prophet who had been in debt, and after paying the debt lived on the rest. This is a great woman of Shunem now who has this boy, a prophetic boy and an only one. You will notice how I stress the idea of the prophet, and God is stressing it and He is going to finish with it.

The boy dies. How searching that is! You may say we had good meetings, good prophetic meetings, good ministry meetings, the brethren getting on nicely, and many promising young men amongst us,

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but the child dies. There is something unusual here, something out of the way, whether this be a natural family or a meeting, it is the same thing. How has this boy been brought up? Did the mother educate him? I do not say he was fully grown, but he was grown. The cry of the boy was entirely a matter of his mind. Is it the culture of his mind? Is that possible with a spiritual woman? It is possible. Many, many young men are ruined because their fathers and mothers wish to make them something distinctive. It is the motive of the parents that is at fault, not the child. This child would be subject to his mother in whatever education or influence she arranged for him, but now his head is troubled. He is with the reapers. Why not with the sowers? Why is he not harrowing or ploughing? He is with the reapers. There is some distinction in reaping, some result or profit from reaping, and he says, "My head, my head!". The head will not do in spiritual matters at all, not that we do not need brains; they are a faculty and the mind is a faculty, too; but then the cultivation of the mind, entirely omitting the renewing of it, is certain to bring trouble in the head, and that is what happened here. This woman, dear brethren, knows what to do. We are not speaking of David now, but the husband of this woman did not know what to do; this husband was so negative. It is a deplorable state. He says, "Carry him to his mother", but why did not the father look after him? He was his only son. Think of the neglect of the father in this respect. He sent him with a lad to his mother. Where were his fatherly feelings? -- there are none. The servant carried him to his mother, and the mother nursed him till noon, when he should be stronger, but he died at noon.

I am not speaking against parents, but seeking to show what is needed at the present time against apostasy in the care of children, and how the father

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should take the lead in it, instead of being behind in it. So the Shunammite's child dies and she places him in the prophet's room, but she does not call her husband. It is a most appalling thing to see such negativeness in the head of the house. What can you expect? The woman is the weaker vessel, and why should things be entirely in her hands? Thank God, this woman knew what to do to restore the child. She had to take a long journey, and she shuts the dead child in the prophet's room and goes to Carmel for the prophet, and the prophet sends Gehazi with his staff to restore the child, but in this he is wrong. There is dislocation all through this matter, but God sees to it that the prophet is brought round to the true position in dealing with things. This cannot be done from a distance, the one must be there on the spot. He may enunciate principles and talk of his years of service, but God says you must be there if you are going to deal with a locality and the people in it. The prophet has to go to Shunem and to the woman's house and to his own room. We do not hear of his going into the house previously, but only into his own room, but now he goes into the house. Gehazi went ahead and laid the staff on the child, but nothing can be done in that way, because we cannot deal with matters at a distance. The apostles chose elders in every assembly, elders must be there, and the prophet has to go there. The boy is dead and the staff can do nothing. The prophet shuts the door on himself and the dead boy. You will see from this how we have to deal with persons in these matters, the persons who are there, so the prophet has recourse to personal identification with the matter. He says, 'I prayed for this boy and now he is dead. I had to do with this child coming into existence and now he is dead, I must identify myself with him in death -- that is the point -- or this boy will never revive'. It is the prophet's matter,

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and he is face to face with it. Can he do it, can he identify himself with the dead boy, eye to eye, mouth to mouth? Yes, he does it. The child begins to get warm. That is the point, because it indicates that life is coming into him. We must get life back again, principles are not enough. There must be personal contact and personal knowledge of things. So the boy begins to get warm and there is hope now, because the idea is resuscitation. It means that there is something there that produces warmth, and it is produced in answer to the personal contact of the prophet, his personal identification with the dead child. So the child gets warm, but still he is not coming to life quickly enough. You see, dear brethren, the point is in getting to the child, identifying yourself with the child. It is not the mother that is doing it, but it is the prophet who is doing it, it is the man called in who is doing it. He belongs there and his house is there, his house is on the spot. The prophet is a local brother, and although he has been in Carmel, now he is here, where he should be in this matter. He goes down and walks around the house. First of all it was his room, now it is the house. We must look round the whole assembly, or the whole family, if it is a family. It must be the mother if it is not the child. He walks to and fro, we are told, I wonder what he was looking at. Perhaps he was looking round to see if there were any deadly things about that would cause the death of this child, any bad reading, any novels, or were there undercurrents in the assembly there, or any secret packages being brought in, or any other thing calculated to cause the death of a child who had been brought in by prophetic word? The boy sneezes seven times, showing that the power of life was within, and now he has come back to life. This is the procedure and he says, "Call this Shunammite". He does not call the father. How humbling that the father should be left out. Is

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it not time he should get down on his knees and ask why he has nothing to do with all this, he, the chief person in the house? He calls the mother, as it is a question of the locality, he does not name her but calls the Shunammite: the locality is in question. She comes in, and he says, "Take up thy son". What a glorious thing that was! She bowed herself and went out. Now she has a living son. Much more could be said as to the spiritual side of this matter, but there it is. What a change in the Shunammite, what a change in the house, what prospects now with a living son, brought in by the prophet, dying in his absence, resuscitated by his presence through the power of God, and handed over to his mother.

Finally, there is the well-known case of Jairus' daughter. The mother's name is not mentioned here; it is the father this time. Jairus is very concerned about his daughter, who is twelve years old. He goes to the Lord Jesus and the Lord goes with him at once to save his daughter, who is not yet dead. During the journey the woman appears of whom we have often heard, having an issue, and she is saved. The Lord can do two things at the same time, during the same journey, so that He saves this woman and says to her that her faith has saved her. He calls her 'Daughter'. Someone says to Jairus, 'Do not trouble the Master any more, the child is dead'. What a poor person this is, entirely wanting in faith, but that was the word given to the father, that the maid is dead. I have been speaking of four dead children, two did not come back to life, one did, and now here is the fourth. The message shows no faith in the Lord, "Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master", whereas the great testimony was that He raised the dead, and that is the testimony at the present time. He is declared Son of God with power by the resurrection of the dead, whoever they are.

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I want to say briefly that the question is a spiritual one this time. The father is in his place and nothing is said about the mother until she comes in with the father when Jesus has come with John, James and Peter. According to Matthew, the flute players were with the body of the child in the house. I have no doubt it was customary for them to be there, and possibly that is the clue to the death of the girl. Young girls are sensitive to music, of course, and this, you may be sure, was not wholesome music. We are told that the Lord drove them all out. Why did not the mother do that, for she was there? They derided the Lord Jesus because the child was dead. Think of having a house, of being head of a house where the Lord Jesus could be derided. They knew that she was dead, but they did not know the Lord. We may know much, and be able to tell when people are dead, but if, when meeting the living One, the resurrection and the life, we cannot name Him, how sorrowful that is! They derided Jesus because He said she would live. He said it. It is a question of the testimony of life at the present time, not simply light. No doubt the Shunammite boy had light, because he had a cultivated mind for a boy of his years, but the point is life. The girl is to live, the Lord says, and He put them all out. That, dear brethren, is to be noted, all that appeals to the flesh, all that is distinctive in the world, things of this kind admitted into our homes, not gross but such as to corrupt the minds of the girls and the boys in the houses so that they die; and there is a state of unbelief in the house, so that death has happened. What can be done? The resurrection and the life is here. Christ is that, and He is stressing this point of life, dear brethren, for it is the power of God in raising the dead, and having conditions in our houses that are suitable for this. There is such a thing as this in a spiritual way, bringing young people back

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to life and drawing them from the deadening influences of the things brought into the houses. The Lord put them all out. There were six of them in the house, the Lord Jesus, three disciples, the mother and father, but no more, because this is a spiritual matter. You may think that many fathers and mothers would mean a spiritual meeting, but remember, this incident is a question of spirituality. Our children are to be rescued from these terrible deadening influences that have had admission into our houses. The Lord put them all out. They derided the Lord because He said the child should live. He takes her by the hand and says, "Child" -- it is a child here. In Mark the Lord's own words are quoted, the very words that He used in this household matter. How important it is to heaven that the very words our Saviour used in Jairus' house are actually quoted and brought down to us by the Spirit of God, so that we all know how interesting and important a christian household is in the eyes of heaven. "Child, arise", and she rose up, to the astonishment of all, and the Lord says, 'Give her something to eat. Do not have any more of these novels and music papers in the house, but give her something to eat that such a one as this needs'. She has been raised up into the most spiritual atmosphere. Let her grow in it now from twelve years on. Let no one say that a child of twelve cannot take part in spiritual matters. It is pernicious and fallacious to say so. This passage is incontestable testimony to the fact that a child of twelve can be introduced into a spiritual atmosphere and maintained in it, for the Lord says, 'Give her something to eat'. It is a remarkable chapter in this respect, showing the way that God is helping the young, and putting it upon parents so that they should be available to Him, and if anything happens, God is there. When resuscitated spiritually, they should be sustained in a spiritual atmosphere.

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I am sure that everyone here will understand what an important matter it is that the fathers and mothers should be looking to Christ regarding their children. He says our children are potentially holy, and that is the basis of all family training, and all that is contrary to it must be kept out, so that the children should live and not die.

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DIVINE AUTHORITY

Matthew 28:5 - 10, 16 - 20; Genesis 28:1 - 5, 10 - 15; Genesis 35:1 - 8

I desire to speak about divine authority and how it is accepted and submitted to so that God will be with us. It appears in Matthew particularly, as I hope to show from the verses in the last chapter. It appears throughout all the gospels, even in John, who quotes the Lord as saying, "He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me". No one loves Christ save as he observes His commandments. The profession is of little value save as it is accompanied by the observance of the Lord's commandments. The observance of His commandments throughout is made the test of spirituality and gift, "If any one thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him recognise the things that I write to you, that it is the Lord's commandment". That is 1 Corinthians, so that the question of love to Christ is tested by obedience, and obedience is of prime importance, especially as the great apostle speaks in his epistle about the curse falling on those who do not love our Lord Jesus Christ.

Matthew brings in the idea of authority peculiarly, for it is the royal gospel, in which Christ is seen as the great King, and Jerusalem as the city of the great King. It is the gospel in which we are told that He went up into a mountain and His disciples came to Him. It is not said that He invited them, but that they came, implying that it was a sacrifice to them to reach Him, for going up a mountain involves sacrifice, and is testing to our strength of heart. He sat down and opened His mouth and taught them, and we read that "he taught them as having authority, and not as their scribes", Matthew 7:29.

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In chapter 5 there are many references to the personal pronoun, 'I', "I say unto you", as over against what had been said at an earlier time. All this is in view of the assembly, for there could be no assembly at all apart from obedience.

Paul speaks of the obedience of faith, which is essential to the assembly. The lordship of Christ is presented in Matthew in order to promote obedience, indeed to enforce obedience, so that in the last chapter we have an angel who speaks with authority, "Behold, I have told you", conveying that God was there. It is an angel of the Lord, not just an angel, but one who can speak with authority, as appears in the end of verse 7: "Behold, I have told you". Any word that comes to our souls with this authority is intended to affect us. God has the means of impressing us with His authority, so we read of this angel, in verse 3: "And his look was as lightning, and his clothing white as snow". This is to impress us with the authority and the means of enforcing it. It continues, "And for fear of him the guards trembled and became as dead men". Such was the divine power there. This is no trivial matter, no passing event merely to be spoken of, but it is to affect men. He says to the women, "Fear not ye, for I know that ye seek Jesus the crucified one", indicating that they were not ashamed of His reproach; they are accepting His crucifixion and the One crucified. This is very touching and is to reassure the hearts of these women that the look like lightning did not refer to them. Under that look was the knowledge of what they were seeking. The angel knew, and it really is divine knowledge. The Lord would impress everyone here that He knows. One of the most comforting words in Revelation is from the Lord's lips, "I know", alluding especially to what was creditable to the saints. If there be that which is discreditable, He knows that too, and will not fail to

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take it up with us in detail, as in the addresses to the assemblies, but it is very comforting when He says, "I know", referring to what is creditable.

Here the angel says, "Fear not" to the women. It was something to be observed by them and would never be forgotten. We may be sure that they often spoke of this wonderful scene in later years, because such an important impression would remain with them, and it would impress them with the fact that God is to be feared, as the writer to the Hebrews says, "For also our God is a consuming fire". These women would never forget this scene. The angel says to them, "He is not here, for he is risen, as he said, Come, see the place where the Lord lay". It is not where Jesus lay, but where the Lord lay, and not only His body, but the Lord Himself. It must never be forgotten that the Lord Jesus lay in death. He says, "Go quickly". We should notice the urgency of divine commands. Many trifle with them, and even christians will do so, but here the angel says, "Go quickly and say to his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and behold, he goes before you into Galilee, there shall ye see him. Behold, I have told you".

Let us put ourselves in the position of these women, for the point in this address is that divine authority is a great matter and we have been told of it in an authoritative voice: "Behold, I have told you". In direct contrast to the scribes, the Lord is said to have spoken with authority and here, also, it is the word of authority, "Go quickly". Many hesitate in regard to what is divinely imperative, such as participation in the fellowship, and many other things involving privilege, but particularly requiring obedience. Many defer things for days, weeks, months, even years, and never really come to the thing. Hence, "Go quickly". And they did. The message was sent by them. Think of the privilege,

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dear brethren. If obedience is with us, then God will take us on; as the apostle says, as soon as your obedience is fulfilled, as soon as it is an actual and active thing in the heart, God will take us on for service, little or much. So the word is, "Go quickly and say to his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and behold, he goes before you into Galilee, there shall ye see him". This is for service. Let no one hesitate if the word is clear, for divine authority can be enforced at any time. The divine presence is found with those who are subject, and in the end the Lord says, "And behold, I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age". But on what principle? On the principle of obedience and recognition of divine authority clearly enunciated.

Many a time one has asked young people if they have confessed the Lord Jesus, and they do not say anything, or answer in the negative, or only half-heartedly. Ask them if they have begun to break bread, and again the reply is negative. They have no deep sense of the divine authority or of the great privilege that is attached to it. The word here is, "Go quickly", and they did. They ran and told His disciples. It is important, for young people especially, to note that these women did what they were told, and as they were told. Being told to go quickly, they went quickly. Do not hesitate or delay. Not only does the Spirit say they went out quickly, but that they ran, because the message was urgent. Is the Lord to be found waiting there for them? He is going before, but how long will He wait? Think of the Lord Jesus being obliged to wait. The disciples should know that they are to meet Him there. Suppose they came late and the Lord was to see that they were neglectful and withdraw Himself. They would miss Him. And so it may be with some of you who are delaying. You are not using the agility seen here. You may decide to go

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later on, but you may not find the Lord then. You will remember how the feminine speaker in the Canticles delayed to open the door to her beloved, and when she did so he was gone. How sorrowful! We may find these conditions with us, apathy, negligence, no recognition of divine authority, rights, or commands, and, when we make up our minds to go, He is gone. Her loved one was gone, leaving a testimony by the myrrh on the locks of the door.

These women went quickly and in going they ran, and the Lord met them. This is the privilege side. They were doing the right thing, carrying out the divine command, and as they were doing that the Lord met them, and not with a frown. It was "Hail!", a salute. Think of the honour conferred on them. How many of us have experienced something of this in the path of obedience? The Lord meets us and says, "Hail!". All is well. It is a felicitous word to set them on their way. They were already on their way and now they would quicken their pace. This matter of agility ought to be looked into, as many are slothful and neglectful. Psalm 22 is headed, 'According to the hind of the morning', which is a feminine thought. It is not masculine, it is not Christ's agility that is in mind. He came up from the grave, He was heard from the horns of the unicorns, and immediately He says, "In the midst of the congregation will I praise thee" (verse 22). He could say this because of the agility in the saints. It is evident that the assembly was already moving in principle; according to Luke the disciples were together in the evening and the Lord came in. It is a question of agility, but the hind of the morning is feminine agility, as in Mary Magdalene. "They ran". It is a peculiar thought, a thought of love.

The Lord goes to Galilee. There is no discrepancy between Him and His message. Some doubted, we are told, but He does not stop here to put them right,

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for it is a question of His carrying out the divine will. He is here, and everything has been given into His hand by the Father, and He is carrying it out, and if some hesitated or doubted, He went on and said, "All power has been given me in heaven and upon earth". The word for power here is authority. He says to the eleven disciples, a broken number, "Go ... and make disciples of all the nations". It is a broken number, and yet such an order was given to them by the lips of the Lord Jesus, not simply to spread the gospel, as in Mark, but to make disciples. What they were themselves, let others be like them. The disciples are to do that in view of all that He says: "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have enjoined you. And behold, I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age". This illustrates that the Lord's presence is with those who are subject; that is my point. The Lord is with them. He does not make any condition here, the inference is that they were subject. Let no one assume that the Lord is with him unless he is subject.

I therefore venture to bring in Jacob, because the verses read point to subjection, that is, a man under orders. In these military times this thought is quite common: there can be no effective military operation apart from obedience. In spite of intensified democratic principles, when we come to military forces, there must be obedience and there is, too; that is, persons are under orders. There is something morally great in persons moving under orders and not according to their own wills. Jacob is moving under orders from both his father and his mother, and it is in a marital matter, a very important affair as regards young people. It is not a thing merely to be talked about, but it is something that enters into divine authority. Isaac and Rebecca, the father and the mother, are concerned about the wife of this son, and

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he obeyed his father and his mother, which is an important word for the young people; in fact their salvation lies in this. Many young persons have been ruined because of their marital connections, disregarding their father and mother. The father and mother in this incident represent divine authority, and Jacob is moving under orders. There is something morally great in this, because he is not a mere youth, but one advanced in years. He is not saying to his father and mother that it is his own business and not theirs. It was their business, for the authority of parents is to be recognised in these matters.

Here it is a heavenly matter, involving what is very practical, for it is a matter of households entering into the testimony. Esau had gone his own way, being a man of the field, and had taken wives where he had pleased, Hittites, worldly persons, and in this way had grieved Rebecca. But not so Jacob: he obeyed in this matter, doubtless as in others, his father and his mother. This affected Esau, who realised that he had not done so, but it was now too late. He endeavoured to make amends by taking other wives more nearly related to him, but the time had gone. He had failed in subjection, to his own and his parents' sorrow, as many have done and are doing, to their ruin and sorrow. Obedience to parents is of supreme importance for young people.

Jacob is under orders. Alone he started out from Beer-sheba, the well of promise, the well of the oath. He started out with promise and the sense of the faithfulness of God, and God met him. He is under orders and God respects that attitude, and He appears to him. A ladder is set up from heaven. Jehovah above and Jacob below, and Jehovah promised him great things, and said to him, "Behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places to which thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee until I have done what I have

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spoken to thee of", Genesis 28:15. What a comfort that is, an unconditional promise! It is unconditional because he is a man under orders and obedient to his father and mother. He has this wonderful honour of an appearance from God: God above and the ladder linking Him with Jacob, angels ascending and descending, and God saying, "I am with thee ... and will bring thee again into this land". It is the certainty of the divine promise to be with us on the principle of obedience to the end of the age. We cannot do without it; no one here can do without it, for salvation is impossible without the divine presence. The principle of authority governs the dispensation, and the advantages that lie in the Spirit come to those who are subject to authority.

God makes the promise here, hence the place Bethel has. It is the house of God, involving obedience, and is in keeping with Matthew, the way of the assembly being obedience to divine authority. The divine presence with us leads with certainty to Bethel, the house of God. Jacob named it, which is another thing. In obedience we begin to name divine things, indeed we know how to name them, a principle that began with Adam and now is seen in Jacob. He calls this place Beth-el, the house of God.

We refer now to chapter 35 to show how this movement went on. Jacob went to Shechem and got into trouble after building a house there. He is on the way back to Bethel, but stops, as many do, alas! Paul says, "Ye ran well, who has stopped you ... ?". We should enquire as to why a person has been stopped. It has happened to some of the Lord's people and they are now dark in their souls. What has happened? The world has offered something attractive, some mixed marriage perhaps, and we settle down at Shechem and get into trouble, disgrace, and even danger. God will come in here for someone tonight, when He says, "Arise, go up to Bethel". This is the

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word, for Jehovah is still there, "And dwell there". Is there anyone here dwelling elsewhere, once happily with the Lord's people, but now no longer with them? God would say to you, "Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there". It was not an unknown place to Jacob. In fact, he had been in it and he himself named it. It is often most pathetic having to deal with souls who have been in the place but are there no longer. It was Bethel, the house of God, which Jacob himself had named, but he is no longer there and has been away for twenty years. Maybe someone here is like that, his privileges abandoned these many years, and to such a one God says, "Arise, go up to Bethel". It is not necessary to tell Jacob where the place is, or what is meant in the name, because Jacob knew all this, and you know, too, but something has happened, "Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there".

The Shunammite says, "I dwell among mine own people". The prophet had said to her, "Wouldest thou be spoken for to the king?" (2 Kings 4:13), but she sought no such honour. Will you not arise and return to your own people, or do you not value them? Maybe you are looking out on the world with longing eyes, feeling the barrier, perhaps placed there by your father and mother, or some other circumstances which separate you from the world, and you are just not content with your own people, but these are the people God will dwell with for ever. If you are a real christian, these are the people; they are your own people, "Thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God", Ruth 1:16. Jacob knew, but he was no longer there. He had stopped on the way. He started out, but stopped on the way and got into trouble, met disaster, and was in the greatest danger of being engulfed by the opposition of the world. God came in at that moment and says, "Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there". And he did. Jacob

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went up. I want to show that God was with him. The terror of God was against his enemies, and nothing can happen to him under divine protection and in the place of obedience, "Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there". He knew what the place was, that it was holy. You cannot take anything that is defiling with you there. All your idols must be buried under the oak at Shechem. The idols are left, but his family and all the people that were with him he has taken up with him. Many people, alas, have lost their children during the days of their worldliness, but Jacob did not. He brought them with him, and God was with him. God came in at the moment so that his family is brought up with him. It is a remarkable statement from verse 9 to the end of verse 15. It is an account by itself of the recovering of this saint, to confirm what has already been said in the earlier verses, 6 to 8. Verse 6 reads, "Jacob came to Luz, which is in the land of Canaan, that is, Bethel, he and all the people that were with him". We are to take note of the fact that Luz is Bethel, the very place that Jacob had named, and now he is going there and God appears to him. Jacob builds an altar there. He had built one at Shechem in connection with himself, but now God has appeared to him and is with him, so that he builds an altar to God and calls it El-Beth-el, that is God, the God of Bethel. He had come back to God.

This is the end of matters in one sense, for coming back to God is the end of everything, but then the Spirit of God comes down to tell us more, "God appeared to Jacob again after he had come from Padan-Aram, and blessed him. And God said to him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not henceforth be called Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name. And he called his name Israel. And God said to him, I am the Almighty God, be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee;

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and kings shall come out of thy loins. And the land that I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land. And God went up from him in the place where he had talked with him". That is very beautiful: "In the place where he had talked with him". I am stressing, dear brethren, that in obedience God is there, no longer at the top of the ladder, but right beside the obedient christian, sitting with him. In changing his name the full position is made clear. Not only have we Jacob's name now Israel, but we have the Almighty God. God makes His name known to him there and Jacob has the sense that God is pleased with him. I do not know of anything more to be desired than that, the sense that, as we are in the place of obedience, God is pleased with us.

We have often noted that Jacob set up a pillar in the place where God talked with him: "A pillar of stone, and poured on it a drink-offering, and poured oil on it". Instead of the altar earlier, with no drink-offering, here a drink-offering is poured on it for God's satisfaction. In the earlier incident Jacob was thinking of his own things, and what God would do for him for his own satisfaction, but now he is thinking of God's satisfaction, and that speaks of the position of the assembly, for God would have us reach the point where we are sensible that God is pleased with us. Jacob anoints the pillar with oil. Properly speaking, only that with which God is pleased can be anointed, as we see in perfection in Jesus. The Spirit came upon Him and God said, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight". So that what is pleasing to God is anointed, and what is anointed is to be used in the dignity of service; therefore Jacob called the name of the place where He talked with him Bethel. He renames it, and it is now more the house of God to him than ever before. How many have such an experience? It is a second

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conversion. Some have more than two, but the second is peculiarly blessed. Jacob is now in Bethel as never before, and he is sensible that God is not only with him, but pleased with him, as the drink-offering on the pillar implies, and not only that, but the pillar is anointed, for Jacob is now also in the testimony.

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READINGS ON 2 KINGS (1) (SUMMARY)

2 Kings 5:1 - 27

J.T. This chapter begins and ends with a leper; the number of lepers was not reduced by the cleansing of Naaman.

Rem. It was the same leprosy.

J.T. The sins of the nation went back on Israel; there is no idea of improving the world. Taking away the sin of the world will take place, but at present that applies to persons. It seems the sin still remains, there is no reduction of it; there is no diminution of sin in the world by the gentiles getting blessing. The gospel does not remove sin out of the world, but from persons; the thing itself seems to increase rather than diminish by the gospel, but the time will come when it will be removed judicially, "Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world"; He does this sacrificially and actually.

The prophet himself imposes leprosy on Gehazi: "The leprosy of Naaman shall fasten upon thee, and upon thy seed for ever. And he went out from his presence leprous, as snow", "He that is not subject to the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him". Gehazi discredited the whole position, saying Elisha had changed his mind, and requesting a talent of silver and two changes of raiment. The whole principle of the clerisy is to take something. It is as if God is anticipating that here, the taking of money, making a trade of the word of God. What is to happen now that the same thing is found in christendom? The leprosy of the gentiles has returned to the Jews, Naaman stands for the gentile. He returns to Syria, but ere doing so,

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requests two mules' burden of earth -- of this earth -- so that he can worship with a good conscience. He has left these two garments and money with Gehazi, and Gehazi himself becomes a leper; the leprosy of Naaman is passed on to him. Such garments as these would be worldly garments. It does not look as if Naaman was to relinquish entirely his place in Syria.

We gentiles have come into the place of blessing, and the Jews have come in for our sins, so to speak. In time they will be restored, and what is to happen to the gentiles? This incident shows the place money and garments have. Gehazi represents the Jew allowing his natural propensities to govern him; he was near the prophet positionally, though far away morally, so he would have the gentile's garments. You see the same thing in christendom, money, cloth, show; what will the outcome be? Sin is no less in the world because christendom is in it; the sin remains. We are not to be partakers in other men's sins; we shall be so, if we are partakers of their money and garments. The dog returns to its vomit. How? By money and garments -- covetousness. Elisha says, Is it a time to receive money and to receive garments? The Lord was marked by the absence of these things, as were the apostles and early christians, but Gehazi was covetous; as was said, you get the thought of trading in the word of God.

After the prodigal is brought back he receives garments, and the elder brother remains outside the house, refusing to go in. Then in the next chapter you have a man living in luxury every day and clothed in purple and fine linen. He represents the Jew, while Lazarus, the gentile, has nothing, but heaven is occupied with him. Luke would point out that money is the great danger, so he brings forward a rich man and first a steward who uses the means under his hand to get friends, and the comment is,

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"The sons of this world are, for their own generation, more prudent than the sons of light". The point is to use whatever you have now in view of everlasting habitations.

Rem. Lazarus went in without any money.

J.T. The man that went to paradise had nothing. The steward indicates the best use to be made of what one has, everlasting habitations.

Rem. The love of money is a root of all evil.

J.T. Money appeals greatly to men. It is not the coin merely, but what it represents. The apostle says, "When the commandment came, sin revived, and I died". And what was the commandment? "Thou shalt not covet". The law in this sense 'kills' you, as man does covet; it is his very nature. Covetousness shows what I am, how exceedingly sinful I am. "That sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful". Why does God enlarge on sin? why make it more sinful? Because He means it to come out in its fulness. God would have the iniquity of the Amorite come out in full. On this principle of Gehazi, christendom has become sinful. The man of sin is the full-blown thing; sin is to head up in one man. The light of christendom makes man's guilt exceeding guilty.

What was in Naaman's mind was wealth and garments. Read verse 5, as to what he brought, and compute what it might be worth! He takes it all back, but leaves two changes of raiment and two talents of silver. Thus Gehazi became what he was morally, there was the transfer of the leprosy with the raiment and money. The Jew would have the money and garments, but the sin of the gentiles is transferred to him, and now christendom is turning back to the same thing. The man of sin must have it. Judas sold Christ because he wanted the money, not because he hated Him. In presence of Mary's beautiful

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tribute to Christ his thought was, what could have been done with the price of the ointment.

Rem. The same principle is seen in Ananias and Sapphira.

J.T. The point is, what effect has christianity on me? how do I hold what I have? what use do I turn it to? Almost the first man that Luke brings forward, after the prodigal, goes to paradise: that is Lazarus, and he has nothing, so money is not needed to go there. What I have I am to use for the future, like the steward.

Rem. The frequent references to money by Paul show how fully delivered he was from its power.

J.T. You read in Acts of those who were "well off"; Paul could carry their money (Acts 11:30). Peter said, "Silver and gold have I none". Money is what it represents. The Lord could take a piece of money from the mouth of a fish. He recognised God's right to the fish to be used for the testimony. If I have money I can use it in love, in view of the future.

Rem. The word to Simon Magus was, "Thy money perish with thee".

J.T. If one is making a wrong use of money it may become a curse; the acquisition of money very often proves a curse. There is more money now than ever among the saints.

Naaman was a generic leper, it was not judicial, not what man has become by his conduct. It is the real state, sin working in man (Romans 1), and therefore one such is a subject of the gospel. But the leprosy was put upon Gehazi, as it was on Miriam; both refer to Israel. You would not preach the gospel to Gehazi; it is a fixed state with him, like Revelation 22:11, he would be leprous "still". "The leprosy of Naaman shall fasten upon thee, and upon thy seed for ever"; it is a judicial thing, and

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if judicial, the word would apply, "There is a sin unto death; I do not say that he shall pray for it". Naaman the gentile was ready for the gospel. So the evangelical touch is most affecting. Greed, money and garments must be watched, the desire to make something out of the testimony.

Rem. The little maid has a remarkable idea of the power of the prophetic word.

J.T. Yes. The Syrians had gone out "in bands"; that is characteristic. This maid had real feeling in regard to her master. No one asked her.

Rem. Her presence there was no accident.

J.T. She was submissive to the government of God, like the Jews of the dispersion; Peter enjoins them to be subject. She has no animosity or personal feeling; she is accepting the conditions and happy in the position. She has great light as to things, and says, "Oh, would that my lord were before the prophet that is in Samaria! then he would cure him of his leprosy". She has no doubt about it. This is a word for young brothers and sisters. How did she know? It is a great thing to have one's ears open for what is current spiritually. Like the maidens in 1 Samuel 9, they knew all about Samuel; it is a reminder to young people.

Rem. There is no need for constitutional diseases to exist.

J.T. She does not call Elisha a healer, as they do in so-called christian science, 1 John 5:16 would leave the matter open for you to decide as to people. If one is often reproved, if one will have it like that, it results in one being like that, "But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant". It is most solemn, and intended to warn us as to the pursuit of a course.

Rem. The Lord says, "And there were many lepers in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet, and none of them was cleansed but Naaman the Syrian".

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J.T. The sovereignty of God is seen in this. Naaman may have got his renown in engagements against Israel; who knows? Things will move if God is in them. Grace is seen here going outside Israel, and that is Luke's line. This is a characteristic gospel chapter. The little maid did not have an atom of hard feeling, that hereditary feeling between Syria and Israel. Peter amplifies the idea in relation to Jew and gentile.

Rem. Naaman changed his mind.

J.T. Men do. They resent the truth and then look into the matter. Who is not double-minded? We have to be watchful to have our minds under control. It is noteworthy that Naaman's servants take no advantage of his leprosy; they call him, My father. It is the principle of being subject; God uses persons who are subject, accepting the position.

Ques. What is the thought of Jordan?

J.T. It is the acceptance of death. Death is sometimes viewed as an enemy, here it is a servant. It is the virtue of death; death is ours.

The whole ministry of Peter is, If I am to be used I must be subject. It is a question whether Naaman ever came to real smallness. The servants knew he valued great things. His word, Take a present, is not good, that is a return for value received. Elisha is a man of rending garments; he will maintain the full dignity of christianity typically. Naaman speaks of the house of Rimmon; he is going to be there. He is a compromising man. There is nothing like that in the eunuch; he is a satisfied man, rejoicing, carrying the truth back home. Naaman is going to retain his dignity. Gehazi suits him; in a sense the same sort of man, like the Emperor Constantine becoming the President of the Council of Nicene! Naaman appeared to have no thought of converting the king. He asks for two mules' burden of this earth, what Elisha stood on; it was for the easing of his conscience.

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He was making terms. He would go free himself, and yet be a big man with the king leaning on him. He is a real christian, so to speak, but making a path for himself. He does not look to the prophet for any counsel, but makes up his mind.

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READINGS ON 2 KINGS (2) (SUMMARY)

2 Kings 6:1 - 33

J.T. The Spirit of God seems to bring the prophet into prominence in all these instances. In the history of His people which He gives, God would stress what is specially of Himself. Hence we see the prophet in a variety of circumstances, in each of which some special feature of God would shine out, a feature which is always needed, and always successful under God in meeting the need. Therefore, in view of the stress laid on prophetic ministry, we would aspire to trustworthiness in His service.

Rem. You get an emergency here in connection with the axe-head.

J.T. It is a question of knowing what to do. Nothing is so manifest among saints and in gatherings as inability to know what to do in crises arising.

Ques. Has Jordan any bearing on the matter?

J.T. What ensues shows that it became the occasion of the power of God being demonstrated.

Rem. You referred to prophetic ministry.

J.T. The prophet here is not only a man that prophesies, but he knows what to do, that is something to emulate. Here there is a proposal, "Let us go, we pray thee, to the Jordan, and take thence every man a beam, and let us make us a place there, where we may dwell. And he said, Go"; apparently it is acceptable to him. It might answer to the suggestion to have another meeting, or the like. Enlargement tests us, especially if anything happens to show there is a certain defect.

Rem. There is sometimes ability to find fault, but the point is how to meet the situation.

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J.T. The question in relation to all these new meetings is, Have they been vindicated? The prophet does not take the initiative here, one does this and one that; one is felling a beam and the action brings out where he has been.

Rem. The prophet consents to go with them.

J.T. Yes, it would show the importance of mutuality with your brethren. All is on that line, no one is directing particularly, every one is at liberty to act. In relation to the incident of the wild gourds, it says, "One went out into the field to gather herbs". Still there is something out of the way here, that is the lesson, I think. There is apt to be an undercurrent, and when the axe-head falls into the water, the prophet is appealed to.

Rem. The axe was borrowed.

J.T. We borrow a lot in our ministry, taking up what others have said, though in a certain way this is right, if the truth is assimilated. But the man did not say it was borrowed till the head fell off. To apply it, he did not say, So-and-so said this.

Rem. "Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith Jehovah, that steal my words every one from his neighbour", Jeremiah 23:30.

J.T. Stealing in divine things merges into the Romish system. Chapters 21 to 23 of Exodus contemplate taking on things in that way and making them our own, arrogating everything, the Bible and all else. The system to which we have referred did not devise these things; what could Rome ever do in advancing a spiritual thought?

Rem. Truth has to be bought.

J.T. Yes, and experienced, so that there is ability to use it. One has to be made efficient.

Ques. How can we use it to advantage?

J.T. By assimilating it. We are not all originators or inaugurators; things come down to us. There has to be eating and drinking, appropriation in a constitutional

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sense, so that it becomes part of you. As you look into it and assimilate it, it belongs to you. The assembly is a community in this way, and what is in it belongs to us all. There was something wrong here, something not rightly set. If I borrow a thought and do not assimilate it, it is not rightly set in my soul in relation to the truth. What is right in itself, such as hiving off, may have some other root in one's motives. You hear something in a meeting and enjoy it, then you want to see how it stands in relation to Christ. The Bereans searched the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so -- even what Paul spoke! You see the bearing of things in relation to Christ, and in the process you assimilate them, and they become part of you. Then the iron and the axe become one thing, so to speak; the iron does not fall off.

Rem. It says, "And made the iron to swim" (verse 6).

J.T. The power of God causes the iron to swim. And then Elisha says, Take it up to thee. It goes back to the man, but as come under the power of God. The prophet rectifies the defect. Saints can see when the iron and handle are not properly attached, when the truth is not in its right setting. A stick is cut down and cast in; a stick is small; it is the smallness of Christ in His own attitude, yet there is power there. There is no attempt at bigness here.

Rem. The apostle exhorts the saints in Romans 12 not to have high thoughts of themselves.

J.T. That fits here, one is to work according to one's measure. Our thoughts may perhaps be too big.

Rem. That is sometimes a snare with young brothers.

J.T. Very, much so. They are apt to think they can deal with truth as older men can, but they cannot. The prophet himself may have got help, but

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he is there to rectify things, and the whole position is set up and strengthened. In Acts 2 the whole community is described, to bring out the original thought. Everything in the community is common, then the levitical thing comes in; Peter speaks -- you would not think you could speak like him!

Rem. Certain ones are mentioned in Galatians, "who were conspicuous as being pillars".

J.T. It was a measuring time. One would not want to add Jewish thoughts to Titus. It is well to measure up.

To return to our chapter. Elisha was not leading in this matter. The sons of the prophets had great respect for him, and he responds to their desire that he should go with them, then this thing comes out and he adjusts it. You can see the grace of God working in this company; there is no attempt to hide the truth. The one who lost the axe-head was evidently an honest man, he was ashamed. And there was a good state of things between the old and young brothers, as we should say. In Corinth there were party leaders who were taking on "another man's line of things", having nothing themselves; it was simply borrowing. In contrast to that, the apostle says, "We will not boast out of measure, but according to the measure of the rule which the God of measure has apportioned to us, to reach to you also". Brethren can usually tell that what you have is of value and gradually realise you are reaching some measure.

Ques. What is the thought of the stick (verse 6)?

J.T. It was cut down as in Exodus 15, where God showed Moses "wood". The idea is Christ as subject to the will of Another. In Matthew 21:8 it says, "Others kept cutting down branches from the trees and strewing them on the way" -- they did not pick up anything they found on the side-walk; the point is there is life. The stick was growing on a

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tree. What came out at the cross was that Christ was subject to the will of Another.

So the whole position is clarified and set up afresh. No doubt the primary thought was carried out. At the very outset, the whole system of testimony was developed in God over-ruling the failures of His people to bring out features of the truth. God developing His own thoughts and over-ruling man's sins to do it. Failures are thus turned into blessing, as in Adam and Eve and others.

Rem. This man said, "Alas!"; he felt it.

J.T. These young men have no thought of starting something themselves, but defect is there. Now it is met, and the whole matter set up again, enlargement is the idea. The sons of the prophets said, "The place where we dwell before thee, is too strait for us". It is like a meeting-room. They had been accustomed to listen to Elisha; they had no thought of getting rid of him. They would attain to the special quality which Elisha represents. Evidently the going down of the iron was arrested by the stick -- it is Christ as He went down, the power of God was there. One has to identify the stick with the iron coming up; the thought is to save the person by the power of God; it is that or nothing. Christ allowed Himself to be acted upon by Another -- "Not my will, but thine, be done". It was the will of God, and that is our sanctification. The brother is set up again in the power of God, the stick is lost to view; it is the effect of atonement applied at any given time. Jesus Himself was baptised in view of bringing everything up in life. So the recovery of a person is of immense importance to heaven.

Ques. What is the force of the iron swimming?

J.T. It would show it was not a dead thing floating. Swimming is an action in yourself, the type means that the person is now energetic himself. It speaks in Acts 27 of "those who were able to swim".

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The next paragraph in this chapter in Kings is met, if we understand the first. This matter of Syrian warfare comes up several times. It brings out the characteristic hereditary attitude of Syria against the people of God, Satan's continued opposition, ever ready to attack, "And the king of Syria warred against Israel"; warring was his attitude. Secret conditions, however, are against him. It is like Colossians. Now that the power of God is known, there is this secret understanding as suggested in verse 9 onwards. The apostle says, "We are not ignorant of his devices". Resurrection is a secret matter, a matter of testimony. Christ's appearing was to His own, it was a secret matter. Colossians is to bring us to that, so that we get the mind of God as to what is going on. In what is taking place publicly today, we see that those acting have things under their hand, but what is Satan really at? That is the lesson for us; whatever he is aiming at, we want to frustrate it.

Rem. Elisha is called "the man of God".

J.T. It is a phrase which fits into the rights of God. It is a question of quality -- a man for a crisis. All the apostles were men of this stamp, but the term is attached to Timothy, as it is a question of remnant times.

Elisha prays that the eyes of his servant may be opened that he may see. What a word that is! Quality is there with Elisha and the enemy is after that man. Elisha is the general, leading his army. He is used to bring out what God is in grace, as over against this hereditary opposition to the people of God. Like Christ sitting on the Father's throne, following on the word to Laodicea, grace there in spite of the callousness.

These hosts the young man sees do not act. They are smitten with blindness, in order to bring out what Elisha is, what God has in him.

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READINGS ON 2 KINGS (3) (SUMMARY)

2 Kings 7:1 - 20

J.T. In order to get the setting of this chapter we should note the closing section of the previous one (verse 25 and onwards), the great famine. Famines whether physical or moral, coming upon us, are strikingly illustrated in this episode. Then the state of murderous unbelief which exists under the guise of religion is seen in the king; the government of God working out in this way brings out murder in the leading man, yet God meets it all in grace in Elisha. The king in verse 30 rends his garments, and it says, "The people looked, and behold, he had sackcloth within upon his flesh". He would appear to be good and sympathetic, whereas in truth he was a murderer and the son of a murderer; it was an effective cloak that he assumed. Thus happenings in modern times are either turning people to God or to apostasy; in Revelation 9:20, those who were not killed with the plagues "repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons" and the idols, and in chapter 16: 11, it says they "blasphemed the God of the heaven for their distresses and their sores, and did not repent of their works". The government of God, taking form in extreme measures, either hardens the heart or turns us to Himself. If we do not repent, we get harder under discipline.

Verse 32 says Elisha sat in his house; there is some hope there. The prophet has power to speak to the king, "Hear the word of Jehovah. Thus saith Jehovah: Tomorrow about this time shall the measure of fine flour be at a shekel, and two measures of barley at a shekel, in the gate of Samaria". How

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calm and measured those with God can be! Instead of saying, There will be plenty of food tomorrow, he quotes the price! Those with God are not carried off their feet by calamity; there is no inflation, things are brought down to a normal level. You get the thought of merchandise in Matthew 13. A man buys a field; it is a question of market value, and normal price, not what is gratuitous. A condition of abnormality is bad. If we are abnormal in physical things we shall be abnormal in spiritual. Compare Revelation 6:6, "A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine"; there is consideration for what belonged to reality -- oil and wine, for under the Lamb these things are tempered.

Jehoram has no solution for the terrible state of things. Think of the extremity reached in chapter 6: 28. How awful! Motherly instincts gone. Why not die for your son rather than sacrifice him? The fine flour would speak of quality; the barley is an early cereal; they are at a proper price, they would refer to Christ. We are living in inflationary times. We are to buy the truth and sell it not; we are not to be carried away by external conditions. The actual conditions are brought out in chapter 7, where the unbeliever is trodden down in the gate. God did make windows in heaven; He has done it before. We must be watchful not to lean on the wrong man. Heaven provides what is needed; in Malachi the windows were to be opened to pour out blessing. There was inflation at Corinth, leaven. They were puffed up, valuing each other beyond all reasonable market conditions, as we might say. Family relationships at Corinth were deranged by the incestuous conditions spoken of. The apostle would bring the saints together according to proper values as here; he speaks of "the brother for whose sake Christ died". What God gives is within reach of all, and

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every christian has the means of acquiring it, if he has an appetite for the truth. To use our illustration, it is a marketable commodity, "Buy of me" is the word in Revelation. It is real, good, constitutional food. The great end in ministry is to make the truth available to all.

Elisha represents the year of grace. Hence "he prepared a great repast" for the Syrians, (Compare the great supper of Luke 14; it is a lavish thing). It serves to break up party spirit -- the bands came no more into the land of Israel; they were bands, not an army.

Barley was the first-fruits, the wave sheaf; the fine flour would set forth the humanity of Christ. Elisha was not ministering to inflate or flatter people; those who pay the price would get the thing, "Gather unto me my godly ones, those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice!", (Psalm 50:5), that is the principle. One thinks of the inauguration of christianity, the state of things that Christ left here, and the superlative quality seen in those two men in Acts 3, Peter and John. They were heaven's product, therefore Peter could say, "Look on us". He could say to the man, "What I have, this give I to thee", because the idea was to bring out the position of christianity. But here the thought of cost comes in. It speaks in 1 Timothy of those who have purchased to themselves a good degree and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. It is a question of what we are.

Ques. What about paying for printed ministry?

J.T. It has been made costless to certain ones, but others have to pay. An honest man says, I want to pay for what I get spiritually. Abraham paid for his sepulchre; David for the threshing-floor. "Buy the truth, and sell it not". We do not barter the truth for earthly value. This enters into the constitution of manhood; things cost us something. You get the

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principle in Isaiah 55buy and eat. Though it is the gospel, there is still the idea of buying; it is a principle in your soul. Christianity is not a system of parasites.

Elisha suffered so much anxiety but he is usable through it all. So Christ suffered in each miracle He wrought. Paul says to the Galatians, "My children, of whom I again travail in birth". He had gone through it before. In this way ministers establish credit accounts! Liabilities are incurred when saints are ministered to; as I am taught I am obligated. See Paul's remarks to Philemon. The gospel is free, but as a believer I am added to the system that gives. Then the four leprous men make a spiritual calculation. They are in a difficult situation, and calculation helps us here. It is like the clean fish in Leviticus 11, it is not carried along without fins. There is nothing in the city, these men reason, and if they abide where they are they will die. The word 'live' comes into their minds. Food was in the camp of the Syrians; that is a spiritual matter. They might be called last-resource christians. Calculation marks the work of God in a 'dusky' state of things; they have recourse to what God has given man in the way of reasoning power. In this way the food is secured.

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READINGS ON 2 KINGS (4) (SUMMARY)

2 Kings 8:1 - 29

J.T. It is to be noticed that in verse 1 the woman is not called a Shunammite but "the woman whose son he [Elisha] had restored to life". This whole matter of the restoration of this son to life is reintroduced in this chapter. Earlier, in chapter 4, it appears she stands in relation to this dispensation, the gospel, and life from among the dead, christianity really, but here the thought is dispensational, having reference to the restoration of Israel. She had been directed to go and sojourn where she could, "For Jehovah has called for a famine, and it shall also come upon the land for seven years" (verse 1). So she goes with her household to the land of the Philistines for seven years. Now she has come back.

Ques. Was she right in going to cry to the king?

J.T. Oh, I think so. The king, however, is really the servant of the man of God, though the official position stands outwardly. Gehazi is telling the king about the great works of Elisha, and this particular case is brought to notice.

Ques. What is the significance of the seven years?

J.T. It was a complete period of exile from her own place where she was well off.

Rem. What is the idea of the restoration of "the fruits of the field"?

J.T. It is the thought of everything being preserved, if we apply it to Israel dispensationally. The 'land' is another matter from the 'boy'! It is intelligible enough if thus applied, all comes back to them. The calling of the assembly is heavenly; the 'land' is connected with the recovery of Israel. The woman is right throughout. Jeremiah

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speaks about purchase, and refers to "that which was sealed ... and that which was open"; the latter is ours, the former would refer to a future day. The inheritance is held for Israel. Nothing is lost.

Ques. Would the land of the Philistines be the general position?

J.T. It is just a suggestion of a foreign land. It was left open to her as to where she should go. The identification is plain enough. Gehazi says, "My lord, O king, this is the woman, and this is her son, whom Elisha restored to life". The matter is kept before us, not simply the Shunammite and her son, but the son whom Elisha restored to life. It is a living state of things throughout. The Jewish remnant is preserved in the assembly in a peculiar way. It is this woman and this son; they continued alive all the time. It is the side of Israel as a remnant preserved according to the election of grace, the principle is the remnant is carried through. It is carefully stated that it is the same woman and the same son, hence it is Israel carried through, not lost sight of, but preserved under control. Wrath came upon the early Jews, but a remnant is living spiritually and reappears; the thread is there.

Rem. It is taken up in Romans 11.

J.T. "And so all Israel shall be saved"; the remnant becomes the whole nation. Thus in Revelation, the whole nation is seen as secured livingly, and the subjective side is seen in following the Lamb whithersoever He goeth.

Rem. Paul speaks of "our whole twelve tribes".

J.T. James writes to them. It is very plain in Romans. Paul says there is a remnant, and "I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin". He was a part of that remnant. That they become part of the organism of the assembly does not set aside this principle. When Jacob went down to Egypt it was under direction, and God met him

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and said in effect, Do not be afraid, Joseph will be there. It is Christ outside among the nations. The Lord never lost sight of Israel, "This is the woman, and this is her son"; they are under orders.

Rem. You referred to Jeremiah buying a piece of land.

J.T. Here it is not the thought of buying, but the land that belonged to the woman, involving the year of jubilee. The assembly is a place of living things, everything is there; Gehazi, Elisha's servant, had some link with Elisha, and now here is this woman. It is not an accidental matter that she is brought forward while this conversation was going on. The Jews talk of the wonders of the past; there is no present with them to talk about, or with the 'Zionists'. When God begins to work, they will talk about the present. The woman and her son are living people. Paul refers to himself as an abortion, born early. He was an abortion in view of the recovery of Israel. All the grouping here is in view of ushering in the coming dispensation. Daniel's seventy weeks would enter into this. Christianity is a parenthesis. The living remnant is in the assembly, but what is in the mind of God is the recovery of Israel, and He carries through during the present parenthesis all that is living. The earthly dealings of God are now in view. This woman represents Elisha's ministry corresponding with Elijah. She and her son come in at this juncture when Gehazi is talking to the king, and that in figure is what is to happen presently in the East. There is a positive work of God linking on what the Lord was in the gospels with the present time.

Rem. Three and a half years of Daniel's week remain to be fulfilled.

J.T. It is likely to be three and a half years. It will be a critical time. Messiah the Prince came in in the sixty-ninth week, He continues for part of the

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seventieth. Messiah is the end of all spiritual dates, other things are details. One thinks of the dead state of things in the East. Turkey infidel for seventeen centuries, what it must have been to God, the testimony in that section submerged in that awful thing called Mohammedanism. Presently Gehazi appears in the status of a servant -- and the king, and a living state of things comes into evidence in the woman and her son. The jubilee will bring all Israel back into their land, they will not have to buy it; it will be theirs.

Ques. The revenue of the land since the woman left was to be restored to her.

J.T. Where was it? one might say. This chamberlain is to know, he is appointed to look after that. It opens up a lot of other things. We have to come back and look into Hebrews. It contains a lot that belongs to Israel. This woman is to locate her allotment.

Rem. It is a responsibility to keep things.

J.T. Paul exhorts Timothy to "keep the entrusted deposit". All the revealed thoughts of God are to be kept in our hearts and intelligence, hence the way the prophetic word was opened up at the revival. Israel is "beloved for the fathers' sakes". Every interest precious to Christ is precious to us.

Ques. What is the significance of "restored to life"?

J.T. It would not be literal resurrection in its application. Israel is revived in life. You have a nation born in a day. The dry bones in Ezekiel come together, and life is imparted and the word comes. These bones are the whole house of Israel. The 'son' would represent the thing brought in, sonship. A dead body is not much use. God brings in the real thing at once. In Matthew 27 we read that many bodies of the saints fallen asleep arose; it is not that they were set up here again, it is just to

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bring out such a thing as that. The time has come for realities, not with Elisha but with the king. The king is listening. Then Elisha came to Damascus. He regulates the Jewish remnant during the period of famine, now he saves the gentile as well as the Jew.

All God's operations had been from "the great sea", the Mediterranean, from Abraham down, and what now? Abraham is the living thought, and Israel had come into this, power is now going to operate again in a national way. Life is to be among the Jews and sickness among the gentiles. Elijah was told to anoint Hazael to be king over Syria. He is a sort of antichrist, and the prophet is profoundly affected in his presence. It is a little like John in Revelation 10, the word was bitter. Terrible things were ahead. Elisha in principle anoints Hazael, and later Jehu is anointed, representing the Jew in the coming day, a ruthless kind of man; but ultimately Christ will come in and fight the battles of Israel. We have had, so to speak, the exit of Israel into the assembly, now there is the exit among the gentiles. Elisha is actually recognised as a man of God among the gentiles (verses 7, 8).

Rem. Jacob went to Egypt.

J.T. Yes, he had reserves, but God appeared to him and said, "I am God, the God of thy father; fear not to go down to Egypt; for I will there make of thee a great nation". The point is that every promise is yea and amen in Christ. Saints are ratifying that. God says, Do not be afraid to go down. The Jewish remnant have gone into the gentile world. This woman goes and comes back, and the point now is Elisha goes to the gentiles and anoints Hazael in principle. His weeping (verse 11) would suggest Christ weeping over Jerusalem, the true prophetic spirit, such as is seen in Lamentations. The Lord could say, "Days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies ... shall close thee around, and keep thee in

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on every side, and shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children in thee". It is all most solemn, what overtook Jerusalem in the government of God. So Hazael comes in, a terrible man! It would appear from verse 13 as if he did not mean to go as far as he did, but there is no remorse with him, nor does he say he will not do what Elisha states. Compare verse 15: that is the kind of man he was next day! If Satan gets a hold of you, he will carry you far beyond any calculation you ever had. He might have reasoned, Ben-hadad has started already, why not let him die? He is carried on, however, beyond what man ordinarily would do. We read of the man of sin; the son of perdition.

Ques. What about the present from Damascus, the forty camels' burden?

J.T. It is what will mark the gentiles -- bringing gifts. The prophets speak much of that proof of the work of God among the nations, making much of Christ. Compare Psalm 72. All this contemplates what Daniel opens up in detail. Alexander's kingdom is broken up into four parts, then the king of the north and the king of the south strive and strive, and one very bad man is there who takes away the daily sacrifice and operates with the beast of the west. He would seem to be a Jew; he will honour the god of forces, not the God of his fathers. This man will persecute Israel.

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READINGS ON 2 KINGS (5) (SUMMARY)

2 Kings 9:1 - 37

J.T. We saw in chapter 8 the remnant of Israel returning in the last days, and claiming their land, then Ben-hadad dies, and Hazael comes on the scene, foreshadowing antichrist in his persecution of the Jews, causing Elisha to weep (verse 11). Other features of evil come out in the chapter, Edom revolts and Ahaziah is introduced, son of Athaliah.

Ques. What does Athaliah set forth?

J.T. She destroyed the seed royal, whereas Jezebel destroyed the prophets: two features of Christ, royalty and prophecy. This is the end of Jezebel as we have to consider what this chapter signifies; the antitypical teaching is plain enough. Jehu is anointed to cut off the house of Ahab. He was one of the men Elijah was instructed to anoint, though actually he did not anoint either Hazael or Jehu. This came more under Elisha's service continuing, as he did, Elijah's ministry, being the vessel of grace. He would anoint them in relation to grace; they would thus have great advantage in being brought into the testimony by Elisha. As to the history, Ahab comes into the Thyatira assembly; the next enquiry is, Where does Jehu come in, in the antitypical teaching? In the dark ages, the error was met in the Reformation, certain men being taken up to meet what obtained.

Chapter 8 is one line, the history of the Jews, developing into the remnant coming back to their own land; then certain elements come in in relation to the king of Syria dealing with the last days. Chapter 9 is church history, so you get Jezebel and all her affiliations.

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Ques. What is the thought in the anointing?

J.T. Elijah was told to anoint Jehu, though he did not do it. Elisha goes into the gentile world and meets Hazael, it is a gentile position in the last days in relation to the Jews. All three were to persecute the Jews, Hazael, Jehu and Elisha; those whom one did not slay, the others would. It was all judgment as stated to Elijah, but in result it was all grace. Hazael represents antichrist in the last days. So cruel to the Jews, and then Jehu is brought in to cut off the house of Ahab. The address to Thyatira brings in Jezebel. Elisha plainly intimates that Hazael is a ruthless man; he slays his master and Jehu displaces him. Hazael is not anointed formally at all, but the principle runs into the facts.

Rem. Jezebel is overthrown.

J.T. She represents the Romish system more in its religious seductive energies. Her guilt is in relation to responsibility. Babylon is destroyed ultimately, the worldly power; the darkest period preceded the Reformation, when Jezebel was dealt with.

Ques. What about the powers that be?

J.T. That is a more general thought in relation to the carrying on of God's government, while Jehovah hides His face from the house of Jacob. In the four empires and ten kings we read of, God provides the means of carrying on His government. Many treat the powers that be as if they were just the world, whereas government is of God. So we have the "four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth", Zechariah 6:5. They "go forth" to carry on the government of the world.

If we think of Jehu again, he marks a new dynasty in Israel, and he is anointed to destroy the house of Ahab, particularly Jezebel; so we ought to link this chapter up with the allusion to Jezebel in Revelation, for wherever you get an Old Testament scripture carried into the New, you are sure to get the key to it.

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We want to see what is set forth in Jehu; have we a judgment as to him? He represents a good deal, that exists since the Reformation, yet that which God has used. On the divine side it is all grace, and yet grace using a man like this! It is not a man that we might choose to do a given work yet he is doing it, and we may judge what he does by that fact. He made a poor finish, we have to take note of his character and end. It is a mistake to judge of a thing done by the person who does it; we might invalidate the whole ministry of Christ by what Judas did if we went on this line! Joab was the leading man under David's regime, yet he was a murderer! If we do not see this we might even invalidate the testimony of christianity as the Bible was for years in the custody of men not equal to it and yet it has come down to us. It is a question of the thing that is done. So if we think of Luther and the leading reformers, we would hardly allow them to break bread today, with the light we have, yet God was using them and what they did stood. Paul says, "Lest after having preached to others I should be myself rejected". If we do not understand this, we shall wonder how the truth came down to us. The Vatican has a Bible, one of the best versions, and that came down to us; the Roman Empire would have destroyed it. You could not speak of many of the men used in this way as characteristically God's servants. The man who was sent to anoint Jehu is called a madman. Much is beclouded by human innovations, but what has been revived is always there in principle. The Holy Spirit gets scope and brings the whole truth round.

We are brought into the economy of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit; the Father conveying the objective thought, the Son what is administrative and the Spirit what is operative. If an unconverted man preaches, the Holy Spirit might come upon him

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just as the ass with man's voice conveyed the word of God to Balaam. The Holy Spirit coming upon a man is not the same as sealing. It speaks in Hebrews of those who "have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit". Many of these would be preaching the truth from the Bible, and the Holy Spirit gives them power for the moment. God might use the Pope, or the Archbishop of Canterbury. Caiaphas prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation, yet there is no evidence that he was a believer. The "old prophet" of 1 Kings 13 prophesied for the moment, in order to bring God in. The thing is right whoever does it. Judas was selected that the Scriptures might be fulfilled. It indicates a very low state of things that God has to use a man like this. We read God humbles Himself to behold the things that are in heaven and in the earth. As humbling Himself, He is still there, though things are low, and He has to use what there is. If He takes up a man on lower ground, I am not to question what such an one does, because of what he is. One must judge by the thing itself, even if there is discrepancy. One might be "saved ... so as by fire", and yet used for conversion. You value what is right in him. Jehu is not in keeping with Elisha. This man Jehonadab, too (chapter 10) is more spiritual than Jehu, yet Jehu is in the front.

Rem. God will expose everything ultimately.

J.T. That is very clear. He will not let us pass. Shimei came down to meet David, bringing a thousand men, and David forgave him. Abishai said it was not right, but the point is David is king and has power to forgive. Shimei came into judgment all the same. On the one hand the dispensation must be maintained though other things may come in governmentally. So Peter is found among the eleven in the early part of Acts though he had previously denied the Lord. What have I to say? I dare not question it. The Lord is Head of the dispensation.

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So this man who anoints Jehu is called a madman, and yet he is a prophet. Elijah and Elisha are with God, the former over against antichrist like Enoch. Then Elisha is in Elijah's room, carrying on on the highest level, whereas Jehu is the sort of man needed now. Normally servants ought to be what they say, but it is a question here of what God is; He is working in a drastic way to deal with evil. Elisha would not be the man to do this work. God is obliged to take up men today not breaking bread, but what is right is right and it stands. We could not say Luther led to the assembly position at all. He said the epistle of James was an epistle of straw! There are hundreds of men like Jehu carrying on a certain work, whereas Elisha is maintaining a high level, he is the prophet. The fulfilment of judgment is very drastic, but God is not resting on what Jehu is doing. He has Elisha beside Jehu. The young prophet says more than he is told to; you may get a thought from the Lord and either enlarge on it or compress it in your ministry. It may be either comprehensive or very small. Moses' instruction from God in Exodus 12 is embodied in twenty verses, but what he is told to say is reduced to seven, when he addresses the people. This is the result of levitical instinct. Then with Paul -- the Lord tells him He has much people at Corinth, but there is no record that he was told to remain eighteen months, or to limit himself to the cross in his early ministry there. The Lord confides something to you either in a small or a large way, and you enlarge or compress when granted an audience later.

The Holy Spirit is obviously helping Jehu here. He gets a definite judgment as to Ahab's conduct, as he comes into contact with these two kings, and that in the very place of the inheritance of Naboth (verse 21). In ministry something comes up often which is quite unexpected. Why should Jehu meet these kings there? What a disadvantage to the enemy, but what

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an advantage to the truth! Jehu is equal to the occasion, too. He calls attention to the murder of Naboth. Something comes up in ministry that you never thought of, certain conditions in the town or what not. You arrive at the thing. Jehu comes to Jizreel where there is all this show -- chariots, paint, and so on. He says, Who is on my side? He is victorious: "This plot" helped him. How could you expect these men to do what he wishes (verse 33)? But they did it. Jezebel is done with, and Jehu is in charge, and in liberty in the palace, master of the situation. The Lord may bring out things you may never have thought of before. Putting himself over against Jezebel, Jehu becomes a gathering centre.

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READINGS ON 2 KINGS (6) (SUMMARY)

2 Kings 10:1 - 36

J.T. The service under Jehu's administration is marked by persons upon whom he executed judgment. First Jehoram king of Israel, which is recorded in chapter 9: 24, and then Ahaziah, king of Judah and Jezebel, afterwards Ahab's seventy sons, and in chapter 10: 11, "all that remained of the house of Ahab". Then in verse 13 the brethren of Ahaziah are slain, and later all the prophets of Baal. We must note these items if we are to get the full instruction contained in these chapters. Eight items are mentioned of persons executed. Then in verse 30, "Jehovah said to Jehu, Because thou hast executed well that which is right in my sight, and hast done unto the house of Ahab according to all that was in my heart, thy children of the fourth generation shall sit on the throne of Israel".

It is remarkable the carefulness with which each detail is mentioned in verses 26 and 27. The Spirit of God would have us to name these things as to their present application, as we have to judge these evils. The house of Ahab was positively identified with Baal, whereas Jeroboam was connected with the calves of Dan and Bethel. Jeroboam's evil was not inaugurated by Ahab or Jezebel; Baal described particular evil, which came over from Tyre. The sin of Jeroboam was more general, it is the sin of christendom, involving clerisy. Jehu accepted that, whereas Ahab's sin would be Rome in character. Luther never dealt with the clerical principle. The episcopalian system would go back to a period anterior to Rome, to the first, second and third centuries, and the evil of Rome developed there too.

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Clericalism has continued on to the present day. Jehu did not deal with that.

Rem. Jeroboam set up the calves in his day.

J.T. It was a political matter with him. Satan had idolatry in mind with Jehu; the impulse came from the anointing; he had remarkable courage and intelligence. Verse 15 conveys a spiritual touch, Jehonadab coming in. It is a heart matter in Jehu's thought; there is a certain amount of uprightness with him.

Rem. Jehonadab is mentioned and perpetuated by Jeremiah (chapter 35). Jehu was promised that his children to the fourth generation should sit on the throne of Israel.

J.T. He was honoured of God peculiarly; verse 15 is a relieving feature in his administration. This man, Jehonadab, came to meet him; it is a sort of confirmatory thing. God always furnishes that so as to give character to what has been done. Exciting things were to be refused by the house of Rechab. It indicates a spiritual element that joins in with what is of God. There were more spiritual men in the Reformation movement than the prominent leaders, Luther and others, men of more depth, such as Zwingli, John Huss and Wycliffe. There were persons also who were unnamed, who were thoroughly in sympathy with what was taking place, but who would not commit themselves. The prophetic word is governing what is to be done here.

Ques. Do you refer to Elisha?

J.T. The ministry of Elijah is in mind. He was commissioned to anoint Jehu, he had strong punitive powers, and was marked by wonderful and outstanding exploits. Elisha continued in his room; he gives the collateral side. Elijah describes what is authoritative. He appears before Ahab, and says, "As Jehovah the God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, except by my word". He asserts the authority with

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which God has invested him. Authority is there, and it speaks for itself. He had wonderful courage and the anointing carried this through to Jehu, but the grace side is in Elisha. Jehu never judged what Jeroboam inaugurated, but he judged something more serious. Balaam is marked out as one of the greatest sinners, and yet God held him, and made him say the most wonderful things as to His people.

Ques. What about Ahaziah?

J.T. The first thing is this man Joram who represents the house of Ahab (chapter 9: 22). His mother is Jezebel, mentioned, as has been said, in the letter to Thyatira. Joram is responsible as he is the king; he is allowing these things though not committing them. That is the first item. And then Ahaziah: he is a king of Judah but affiliated with the king of Israel, so he is not saved. Then there is Jezebel herself, "Behold, I cast her into a bed ... and her children will I kill with death", Revelation 2:22. Compare with this verse 12, "And as he was at the shepherds' meeting-place on the way, Jehu found the brethren of Ahaziah king of Judah, and said, Who are ye? And they said, We are the brethren of Ahaziah; and have come down to salute the children of the king and the children of the queen". These 'children' are affiliated with the children of Jezebel; the "meeting-place" is like the plain of Ono; they were coming down to have a good time. It is the social side, a Moabitish thing.

With the seventy sons of Ahab it was a head matter (verses 6, 7) as with Goliath. The thinking faculty is in mind; the palms of the hands in relation to Jezebel would speak of what is active or the moving faculty. The whole world is taxed to make Rome a masterpiece. If the palms of the hands are separated from the body, what can Jezebel do now? The skull had been the agent of evil. Jehu is in charge now. He eats and drinks, feasting where Jezebel used

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to be, while she disappears, never to appear again. Jehonadab, as was said, is the spiritual side of the matter, he is thoroughly with the overthrow of Ahab's house in Jezebel. History would make much of the leaders, but the real spiritual element is there. Thyatira is the general profession, the last works to be more than the first, as if a remnant would come in there, so what was of God in the middle ages is striking. Take the hymns composed then. There was no assembly formation, but there was piety and love to Christ. They may have been further on than their words convey.

Rem. The eunuchs would be a vital element here.

J.T. Yes. Isaiah 56 refers to "the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me". They obey Jehu at once.

There is more opportunity of putting things together, as we meet in the light of the assembly. One can transpose the words of J.N.D.'s hymns, but the substance is all there. The "chief musician" can put things together. The last works in Thyatira are more than the first. The Lord furnished His people especially for suffering. How many there are whom we have never heard of! The Lord is thinking of all those, "To you I say, the rest who are in Thyatira". The light of the coming of the Lord must have broken in upon them.

Rem. I will give to him the morning star.

J.T. The overcomer in Philadelphia would have more understanding than the one in Thyatira. "I will write upon him the name of my God, ..." There is the light of relationship with God, and the temple. So the seventy sons are slain, then the brethren of Ahaziah, the king and queen having been slain. They have no judgment about anything. How often you find no judgment about anything which has come on the social side. How solemn! One wants to analyse these items, and avoid mere social thoughts. The word here is, "Take them alive!", and they are

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slain at the well of the meeting-place. All that is social has to be watched, the purely worldly thing in the midst of profession.

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READINGS ON 2 KINGS (7) (SUMMARY)

2 Kings 12:1 - 21

Rem. In the preceding chapter there is the prominence of the feminine element, whether for evil or good, the priesthood being in the ascendancy, and in the latter part destructive operations brought to bear upon the house of Baal, but here the king takes command.

J.T. Kingship having come in in David, takes precedence of all other offices, but in its weakness or youthfulness, your thought would be that priesthood was necessary. Maternal exercise, taking form in the priest's wife, led her to keep the child hid for six years (chapter 11: 2). So the priesthood together with the priest's wife (2 Chronicles 22:11) preserved the king in his infancy, until he was fully recognised: "Long live the king!" (chapter 11: 12). Then in chapter 11: 19 it says, "They brought down the king from the house of Jehovah ... and he sat upon the throne of the kings". He is reigning, but he had the support of the priest for a while, and he is in charge of the house. We want to understand the preservation of the seed royal, and priestly protection where it is in danger. A rival exists in Athaliah.

Rem. The position in chapter 11 is precarious.

J.T. Yes, and yet you can see how divine provision fitted exactly, so Joash is called the king, not merely the king's son. It is a great thing to nurse the kingly element, so that it becomes active. You get a remarkable correspondence in the Scriptures: so in Exodus 1, you have, "There arose a new king over Egypt, who did not know Joseph", and though Israel had no leader, they were fruitful and swarmed and multiplied. They were exposed to Pharaoh but

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women came forward and preserved the male side. Five women were used in this. The idea is that the subjective practical state among the brethren nurses what is of God. The seed royal is the child. You have the spiritual side in 2 Kings 11. Jehosheba is particularly to be noticed, as she comes in first; where women act, it is the subjective side that is prominent. So these five women in Exodus secure the male side, just as here Jehosheba takes the lead with the nurse: they hid the king's son. It says, "He was with her hid in the house of Jehovah six years". Then Jehoiada comes into view -- God would own the official side -- and acts throughout the chapter; thus the king is brought into evidence. It says Jehoiada "shewed them the king's son" (verse 4). Then verse 12: "And he brought forth the king's son, and put the crown upon him, and gave him the testimony; and they made him king, and anointed him; and they clapped their hands, and said, Long live the king!" The full thought is now reached, and this by way of the subjective line. Suppose there are two brothers in a gathering, and three times as many sisters; if the brothers have not gift, they have to be nursed, that is the idea. So the kingly side comes into evidence. We are never left at a loss. Over against Athaliah we have this woman acting for God.

Rem. In Matthew we have "the little child and his mother".

J.T. The male side is in mind in Matthew, therefore Joseph is put in charge of the little child, but there is the mother; whereas Luke would enlarge on the female side, the birth of Christ, and the care manifested. It is a crisis here, a most precarious situation; it is all linked up with Jezebel. Jezebel would slay all the prophets, that is, the word and mind and authority of God, then you have apostasy. This chapter is intended to bring out the subjective

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side to meet conditions. If there is lack of lordship, subjective conditions may be relied on if God is working. In due course the priest comes in with the result, no longer the king's son but his being made king, the full position. The full divine position is reached, and yet he is a boy only seven years old, but he reigns the full time of David and Solomon, forty years. The complete idea of kingship is thus reached on these subjective lines.

It says in chapter 11: 2, "They hid him from Athaliah" -- whoever "they" were; that is the subjective state of things capable of hiding from the enemy what is of value. Then you get the moral result in the official side, the side God can own. The point is, that however small things may be, this state of soul can be relied upon. We want to bring in what is needed officially, not just to keep the meeting going. A sister would never arrogate authority but would indicate that it belongs to the king. The seventh year is full development.

Rem. At Philippi women were prominent, assembling where prayer was wont to be made.

J.T. The male side was clearly indicated in the man of Macedonia, but the female stands out first, and as here, over against the female slave who was the tool of the enemy. Lydia attended to the things spoken by Paul, as Paul had the vision. The subjective side must get into touch with Paul, as Paul represents God. You get a murderous spirit in Acts, similar to what is found in Athaliah: God meets that by the subjective side in the assembly. The assembly comes into prominence in Acts almost immediately. It says of the Lord, "And, being assembled with them", Acts 1:4. The King was there but going away and the assembly was to occupy the ground.

Jehosheba did her work well, in relation to this principle of hiding. The secretive thought belongs to

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the subjective side, but when publicity comes in, there must be the king. The full thought is reached spiritually in the seventh year, so we have something designated as "The king", and he is to live long. Jehoiada fosters that, hence it is to his credit that in chapter 12 we have a king reigning forty years. His mother came from a covenant place. So you have a full spiritual product, the full position is in view as in David and Solomon. The priest and king (or, since David, king and priest) is the divine order. So if a meeting is weak, this describes what you get, as the priest is the development of a spiritual state in the woman, and that, in turn, develops into authority. Jehoiada is owned as introducing the king's son.

Ques. What place has Nathan?

J.T. Nathan and Gad are subservient to David's prosperity. Gad is David's seer. A man like David, though king, needed that. Nathan saved David, as did Gad. The most spiritual need the prophet.

Rem. Zechariah alludes to the Branch growing up from His own place and then a priest upon His throne.

J.T. Priesthood and kingship should go together. God said He would raise up a faithful priest who would walk before His anointed continually. Priesthood is subservient to that. Christ is said to be the Branch, as remarked, a dependent Man, a Priest on His throne, meaning He is sympathetic with His subjects, not arbitrary. In Jehoiada you have the official side as the outgrowth of the subjective -- what God can commit Himself to; it is the subjective side nursing this element till it develops.

Ques. What is the thought in kingship?

J.T. Power really. How much you need power! "The shout of a king is in his midst". Now, in chapter 12 you get the king in charge taking the initiative in regard to the money; he is acting as

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king and calls for Jehoiada and the priests. Similarly Paul sends Timotheus to Corinth in view of the low state there to revive subjective and priestly features among the saints. God goes on patiently to secure this, to show how He can intervene in weakness, indeed in a desperate situation, so that we are never driven to the wall. As was said earlier, this indicates the place sisters can have in nursing what is of God. In Montreal sisters went on and on for many years, till the king came in, so to speak.

Rem. The birth of Joash seems to correspond with the activities of Jehu.

J.T. Jehu went on in God's service against Ahab; he was raised up and anointed to do that. God allowed his dynasty to stand through four more kings. Athaliah's attack was against the seed royal; there was no seed royal in the ten tribes. Sometimes one man slew another and reigned in his stead, but not so in Judah. Jehu did what was right up to a point. The seed royal is Christ preserved in the hearts of the saints in relation to the counsels of God. That is what Philadelphia has got.

Rem. Tamar preserved the seed royal.

J.T. And she has a place in the generations in Matthew. The book of Ruth, too, brings that out. "Book of the generation of Jesus Christ, son of David, son of Abraham"; that must have in mind the assembly. The assembly represents what conserves things in the absence of Christ. The virtuous woman's husband is known in the gates.

Kingship is seen in chapter 12: Joash reigns for forty years, and the first thing he directs relates to the money, as it says, "The money of everyone that passes the account, the money at which every man is valued". We must have the values of the brethren. It says in verse 6, "The priests had not repaired the breaches of the house". How serious! The priests were behind. There are peculiar qualities in this king. The only

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point in which he shines seems to be in this matter, bringing out of the saints, so to speak, for God's purposes, what is in them. This is important. The position is very weak, and the breaches are a matter for everyone in the meeting. The priests failed in relation to this, and yet Joash had been twenty-three years on the throne! (verses 5, 6). Then we find Jehoiada introduces this chest; it may have been the priests were appropriating the money to themselves. Joash had said, This must be changed; "Why have ye not repaired the breaches of the house?" He sounds a great kingly note. The chest is put beside the altar. You are prepared to sacrifice now, to serve God. The position is clearly of God.

Rem. The special collection has a great place.

J.T. It is remarkable how much is made of it in Corinthians and in Acts.

Rem. So things move here on more positive lines; you get the constructive side suggested in the carpenters and builders.

J.T. Yes, skilled workmen. How everything is developing! If brethren are right and subject, everything comes along that is needed. Brethren do things in a skilled way. God developing things among us. But how are things to be done without a priestly and skilled element? So this glorious chest -- never one more so! -- is introduced, and the money contained in it is tied up for the purpose of weighing, ready to give into the hand of those who do the work.

Rem. Expert workmen were employed.

J.T. How important to develop skilled workmen! It is a question of what your value is, or mine. If I dedicate myself, I am not taken at my own valuation. Leviticus 27 brings that out; valuation is there according to age. Ii is a question of what one is worth; everything must be according to divine value.

Rem. The chest was put beside the altar.

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Rem. There are the two sides here, the money in the box, and then the distribution left to the king's scribe and the high priest.

J.T. That is like the care meeting. You get wisdom and counsel there.

Ques. What is the thought in weighing the money?

J.T. You get a balance here, both counting and weighing. One might say, There are fifty breaking bread in a certain place. Yes, but what is the moral weight? Recently I had some copies of letters sent me from the other side, which letters were acknowledgments of gifts of money received from the brethren. These gifts were allocated, some receiving more than others. Think of the worth of such recipients! The thanksgivings were beautiful. Brethren know who's who!

Rem. "And they did not reckon with the men into whose hand they gave the money".

J.T. No, it is the principle of confidence that governs the care meeting. There has been great progress in this matter of recent years. At first they did not make proposals as they do now. A better state of things prevails today. Confidence is the greatest thing among us. It has become established among us. You marvel at this instruction on the part of Joash, and as to why it is put in here. The boy had been wonderfully preserved and this is all he is stated as doing. He arranges for the money; he is looking after the affairs of the house. He is thirty years of age and at that age a man ought to be at his best. The 'box' is given a glorious position in 2 Corinthians. See how the bearers of the money are mentioned in chapter 8: 23, "Our brethren, they are deputed messengers of assemblies, Christ's glory".

Rem. No amounts are mentioned.

J.T. That would link with people laying by at home on the first day of the week. If money is laid

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aside in the house, you do not reduce it, as it is what is in the heart that counts, but you can add to it. If something touches you in the meeting, you might feel you would like to give more.

Ques. Why the right side of the altar?

J.T. The right side is the side of power. Then you get the trespass- and sin-offerings mentioned in verse 16: "The money ... was not brought into the house of Jehovah: it was for the priests". The priests are taken care of. You take the thing to yourself, whatever happens.

2 Chronicles 24:14 gives an addition to verse 13 here. There is more wealth in Chronicles. Here the utensils were not made, but they ought to have been. The idea here is that they were needed; Chronicles indicates they were provided. They would allude to the persons of the saints, the progress of saints spiritually that meets this situation. The thought begins in Exodus, where the Israelites asked utensils from the Egyptians as leaving Egypt. The idea is saints are usable. As we advance spiritually we become usable. Some are not visiting the saints or doing anything; where is a brother or sister under such circumstances?

What follows from verse 17 is humbling. Joash is robbing the house of God to bring an offering to Hazael.

Rem. "The pots in Jehovah's house shall be like the bowls before the altar". Zechariah 14:20. They are finally all right.

J.T. That is very comforting.

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READINGS ON 2 KINGS (8) (SUMMARY)

2 Kings 13:1 - 25

J.T. In order to see the bearing of this chapter and those following, we should note that chapters 11 and 12 bring priesthood and kingship into evidence, persons coming before us who were, in the main, suitable for the work of God, for God generally uses persons suitable for the work He appoints them. Whereas here you have persons who are said to do evil in the sight of Jehovah, and yet God uses them, so that He raised up a saviour for Israel (see verse 5) and the saving was through Joash and Jeroboam the son of Joash (chapter 14: 23 - 27). It is said that Joash did evil in the sight of Jehovah, and yet we are told that three times did he beat the king of Syria, and recovered the cities of Israel, and it was indicated to him how he was to do it. In regard to Jeroboam, his son, we are told that he warred and recovered for Israel that which had belonged to Judah in Damascus and in Hamath (chapter 14: 28). So that we see that, while on the one hand, God carried on His work through capable persons in keeping with that work, yet, on the other hand, He uses persons not characteristically marked by suitability, the question here being sympathy with His people as in verses 4 and 23 of chapter 13, and verses 26 and 27 of chapter 14. So He acts sovereignly.

Rem. The suitable servants really do the most important work, and are near to God, as the priests and prophets; the others carry on work which is more distant.

J.T. These scriptures illustrate what we have in the history of Christianity. Reliable men were in the upper room in Acts 1, and the Holy Spirit came upon

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them, and they were ready for work, recognised as skilled men. Peter stands up with the eleven, and the work is perfect as far as it goes. The names of the apostles are seen in the heavenly city, as well as the work, as if to indicate they were in keeping with the work. But in Christendom you find other men, neither skilled nor even morally qualified. This is constant today in the sphere of profession, but God is sovereign, and on account of His compassion and covenant (verse 23) He uses such persons; we cannot say nay to what they are doing, though we are not called upon to submit to it. God has revived the thought of qualification for service, priesthood and moral authority, and it is in that connection the testimony lies; at the same time we must make room for the exercise of His sovereignty using whom He will in compassion for His people.

Rem. So in verse 4 He hearkens to Jehoahaz.

J.T. It brings out a principle in relation to which God would help us. Elijah, Elisha, Jehoiada and Joash, son of Ahaziah, king of Judah, are men that God can commit Himself to in service, but in this section we find He is using men not suitable. So we have to see what He is doing.

Ques. Are we to understand the circumstances in each case? Israel, Judah and Syria present different sets of circumstances.

J.T. If we take Hazael, for example, the Syrian leader, he is anointed according to Jehovah's own word, yet he is against Israel, and he was evidently going too far. He was anointed to carry out the punitive work of God, see verse 3, but we must see that we do not follow the punitive side too far.

Rem. We read in chapter 5 that by Naaman God "had given deliverance to Syria; and he was a mighty man of valour, but a leper".

J.T. We wonder why all this was written, taking it literally, but in the light of current events, we take

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account of the divine standpoint, of what God is doing by whomsoever He will, and if the person He is using goes too far, He calls a halt, so to speak, as in the latter part of chapter 13.

Ques. Does this show that we should take note of public events?

J.T. Whatever bears on the testimony is a matter of concern to us, the point in relation to them is how they affect the saints. Jehovah hearkened to Jehoahaz, therefore we can see how God might help the Church of England or the Presbyterians, for instance, not as a system but in certain circumstances; though they do not conform to the truth themselves. He is thinking of His people in relation to the covenant. In a letter relating to the disestablishment of the Church of Ireland, J.N.D. said what should be done. The man he wrote to was not right but he was a believer and was doing something. It was no question of fellowship, but a question of God and how far He would go with His people, for He never gives them up, "He who is not against us is for us", or on our part. Many may be with us in this sense in the preaching of the gospel, and we with them as far as we can. Then "He that is not with me is against me". We are thus taxed as to our discernment. So you get Elijah and Elisha mentioned in relation to Israel, yet the national religion was set up by Jeroboam who was idolatrous. In spite of this God did not forsake them.

Ques. Would this have a bearing on the powers that be?

J.T. They are God's ministers to us for good; that is another thing. We pray for them, too. We might ask ourselves the question, Do we pray for them? Take those men who preach in system, do we pray for them? We ought to do so, as God considers for anything which is done for Him.

Rem. This would be in our households.

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J.T. Yes, in the assembly we pray in connection with assembly interests.

Referring again to 2 Kings, chapters 11 and 12 help as to what is suitable to God. Joash's work as king was directed to the repairing of the house, and then you have the priest, and all that they do is good. God can thus commit Himself to them. In chapter 13 the men are not equal to the work, yet they are used, and one prays, though he did evil, and God hears. In His governmental dealings too God comes in and listens to our prayers, though what He does judicially may for a while act against us. "Thou hast a few names even in Sardis ..."; then in Laodicea, the Lord would give counsel; both show what we are speaking of.

Ques. Who would the saviour be in verse 5?

J.T. Joash might seem to be the one. He comes down to Elisha; he is moving in the right direction. You might say he is going to be the saviour, if you are looking out for such.

Rem. Even if he does not shoot all the arrows?

J.T. If he were spiritual he would go to five or six. If God indicates He is going to give a saviour, you would look round for him, to see if you can find anyone like him. It is wonderful how people do know, though they may not be walking according to that knowledge. So here Joash weeps over the prophet. You may be sure God is going to use him. Complete deliverance was in mind from the divine side. God is sorry for His people, and gives them a little relief; that is going on all the time. So here Joash is directed to take bow and arrows, and the prophetic hand is on his, the prophet's power enters into that part. It is the arrow of Jehovah's deliverance from the Syrians. But in verse 18 Joash is told to "take the arrows": note the article; it would refer to all of them. "And", it says, "he smote thrice and stayed". That was very sorrowful; thrice

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was a good deal, but the arrows were all there, why not use them? The more you use, the more the victories later.

Rem. We are often content with relief from pressure.

J.T. Yes. A brother thinks he would like to be an evangelist, and he considers things from that point of view, whereas God may use him to go all the way and be an assembly man. You may only move according to what you have in your mind to accomplish; you may be a good preacher, but God wants you to be an assembly man. The power of God in resurrection is suggested in this incident (2 Kings 13:17); the east speaks of this -- there is no limit to it. But then I must be affected too. What you do to the enemy, you must also do to yourself. All the arrows are available, so you go as far as you can, that is on the ground. It is like the repenting sinner in Luke, the principle in Luke is you keep on repenting. One feels how constantly one needs to judge oneself. Luke 15 in this way signifies an attitude of soul, "There is joy before the angels of God for one repenting sinner". This has to go on, as things are always coming up that one did not see before.

Rem. Explicit instructions are not always given. God leaves us to our own initiative.

J.T. The first arrow was one of Jehovah's deliverance. That is the general thought; there is no limit to the power of God as under divine direction, "Thou shalt smite the Syrians ... till thou hast consumed them". That is a big matter, it requires I must judge myself to be available for it. So Joash is left to himself as to what to do; all the arrows are in his hand. What we find is he limits himself. Why so, when the power is unlimited? A brother in service ought not to impose limits if the power is unlimited. Then the next thing is my measure.

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In Romans 12 we have "As God has dealt to each a measure of faith", and the apostle says in 2 Corinthians 10, "Now we will not boast out of measure, but according to the measure of the rule which the God of measure has apportioned to us, to reach to you also". It is a question of what we are equal to, so it is a matter of faith. We want to keep ourselves open for the full use of the power that is there, according to our measure.

Rem. So a servant would take account of this if asked to give an address.

J.T. Yes -- your own measure. Brethren might make a mistake. "To reach to you also", the apostle says; so if brethren ask you to give an address, your measure should reach to them. I should not like to ask a brother to give an address if he did not touch my conscience.

Ques. What do you mean as to imposing limitations on ourselves?

J.T. Why not enlarge? I can tell surely if I am reaching someone; I can tell by their faces; so I feel I can do it again. God used two Midianites to encourage Gideon. You are made conscious, if giving an address, that you are helping someone, that you are reaching to them. As Peter spoke in Acts 2, the people were pricked in their hearts.

Ques. What were Timothy's qualifications?

J.T. He was a man of God, and a man of God is ready to do anything that furthers the work of God. Paul used Timothy to represent himself, "Who shall put you in mind of my ways as they are in Christ". He is a man ready to do anything that needed to be done; he preached the Son of God at Corinth (2 Corinthians 1:19).

One of the greatest lessons to learn is how to use those arrows, they are all available against oneself. It is remarkable how this incident brings out the service of Elisha carried on to the last moment, and

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even after he died! He is not bemoaning his illness, but speaking of the Syrians and deliverance. There is one man with whom God is wholly identified; he is carrying on to the end, and then he dies; and after he dies, a man is raised up who was cast into his sepulchre and came into contact with his bones. It is a remarkable occurrence. It looks like an accident, but it is to bring out the testimony of Christ, whether in death or life. As dead, Elisha raises up a man; as alive he is teaching people how to serve. Elisha is Christ, alive or dead, dimly known, we might say. The king of Israel knows the prophet well enough to weep. I think we can view it as the death of Christ applied. It might be in a church where the 'sacrament' is partaken of, and light comes in from God. The Lord's supper is used all round us and not rightly named, yet sometimes a ray of light touches a man's soul, and he lives, and may come into fellowship! This man might come into fellowship, so to speak! What a man he would be, although not of much account publicly: it just says, "They were burying a man", but where would you get a man like this? It reminds one of Lazarus, for of him it says, "By reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus".

Ques. What is to be learned from the bands of the Moabites?

J.T. You get the bands of the Syrians earlier. Bread and water broke up that band! Here it is life. A band speaks of party spirit, you get these bands wherever death is not accepted. People are sure to cling together in bands, but resurrection takes you out of all that. The Moabites would never overcome this man. What a promiscuous condition there is in christendom as suggested in this chapter! Here a dead Christ is in view, and God is going to do something with this man; all has to be viewed in the light of this remarkable occurrence. This man went down in the midst of commonplace circumstances,

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God would show what He can do even in such circumstances. The truth of Christ's death is all around us, and some one gets the good of it. This man is cast into Elisha's grave, but God acts and you have a living man in result. This is going on all the time, amid irregular circumstances, no priest, and the king doing evil; yet this takes place.

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RIVERS AND THEIR SOURCES

Genesis 2:10 - 12; Revelation 22:1, 2; Ezekiel 47:1 - 8

I wish to speak about river sources and about rivers themselves, but particularly of their sources. Rivers in Scripture are typical of influences, and hence the importance of enquiring into their sources, as to whether the influences are good or otherwise. There are many powers of influence in the world, especially such as run through educational institutions. These institutions are sources, ancient and renowned, and thus they are more likely to be influential for men generally. Women are more sentimental, and sentiment needs persons of educational bent to think and speak on that line. Those who read ancient writings called the classics would be ashamed to be found ignorant of them in society, for these matters are largely the theme of social gatherings of a certain class. Then there are other sources from which corrupting things issue, the whole world being corrupted from them; there are such centres in this continent and in Europe. So it is well to have these thoughts before us, specially in relation to our young, that we may be on our guard as to whence these influences come.

God furnishes us with these three rivers in Scripture: the first is in the beginning, the second in the end and the third in the middle. Other rivers are mentioned, but not so much their sources. The river of God, it says, is full of water. We are safe in drinking there; but these three given in the passages read have sources, and the first stands in relation to what is regarded as a privileged place. All the creation of God was a privileged place. We read of one who had fallen being in the garden of God, hence we know it was invaded by evil, but it is not presented thus in

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this scripture, which speaks of the primary condition of things coming from the hands of a loving and beneficent Creator. In six days He made the heavens and the earth, and created certain things, among which was man. His supreme handiwork, figure of Him that was to come; and in view of the end before Him, "Jehovah Elohim", as it says, "planted a garden in Eden eastward". So He was the first 'landscape Gardener'; one speaks reverently in using that appellation; it is a profession that is honourable, and the basis is the earth. The earth is the Lord's, we read, and the fulness thereof. Fulness includes the garden, what may be developed out of any part of it; the development is the fulness. It was planted eastward, and this implies hope, God dealing in such a way as to inspire hope in man, for we are to end gloriously. Then it says, "And there put Man whom he had formed". It does not say the one created, but the one formed, an additional thought to creation, involving beauty, skill and symmetry. The divine fiat is conveyed in the words, "He spoke, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast". Further, in Proverbs 8, wisdom says, "When he prepared the heavens I was there", and "I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth, and my delights were with the sons of men". Wisdom is a quality, personified. If Christ is called wisdom, it is in a very relative sense. It refers to a quality in the sense of skill employed by God as He operated; so here man is formed. This is the supreme thought of God in the creation, for man is a figure of Him that was to come -- He created everything, even Adam -- it was Jesus. As it says in John 1:3, "All things received being through him, and without him not one thing received being which has received being". The inscrutableness of Christ's Person enters into it, and as built up on these lines we become worshippers.

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God planted a garden. That was skill; then He put in the man that He had formed. How God would look down on what His own skill had formed and on that being that He had set there! He had said in Genesis 1, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness ..." and it adds, "God created Man". So man was there first, though not at his best as alone. Eve was to come in as his fulness, there was the building of the woman which contemplates skill.

These things are all intended to tax our minds, our renewed minds, as we so tend to group things together under one head. God does this, too, but He does not fail to open the thing up to make it clear. That is the position here, we are to receive impressions from the way the Spirit of God speaks of things, from the mode of phraseology employed.

Now it is said, "A river went out of Eden". It describes a spontaneous movement, and spiritually that is so. Spontaneity is the antitypical thing, alluding to the Holy Spirit come down, sent down, we may say, yet as here moving of Himself -- it is the essence of christianity to understand this -- then the thought was to water the garden. Refreshment was in view, for as yet no rain had been spoken of in Scripture. Water is spoken of very early in the Word, plenty of it, too, and the garden must be watered; God's handiwork must be refreshed. The source of the river is Eden, meaning the very best possible environment. As it says of the Spirit, this thought of environment being transferred to christianity, "Who goes forth from with the Father". The Holy Spirit is viewed as subservient to the Father and the Son, but the environment is "with the Father". He has come out from such a source, though with us and in us. He is a Person distinctly by Himself, but He proceeds from with the Father. Think of the Son being down here, think of the holy converse that took place as heaven was opened.

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A voice from heaven came, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight". Think of the environment that the voice emanated from -- the Lord spoken to, and of, then the Spirit coming out, speaking of the greatest things, from such an environment and active in regard of Christ here below. You get the first mention of the Spirit in Genesis 1:2, where it says, "The Spirit of God was hovering", or brooding, "over the face of the waters". It meant He was there. Now Christ is here. Think of the stimulation afforded Deity by the Son in His position here below, the Spirit having part in it; no brooding of anxiety now, but coming on Christ in the form of a dove and abiding on Him. What thoughts enter into this, as our minds are enlarged to apprehend Christ here, and the Spirit in relation to Him, proceeding from with the Father.

Then we read that this river in Eden was parted from thence, and "became four main streams". Redemption having been accomplished, we have the idea at Pentecost of parting -- "parted tongues", the meaning being that henceforth language is no barrier in the testimony of God. Then this river becomes four heads, the testimony is to be carried east and west, north and south. There are four heads and four governing thoughts, it speaks of the operations of the Spirit under these principles. Everything is definite; what results we ought to have! We do not get all the details, but enough to convey the impression that each head implies a lot in the way of results. Pison gives these particularly, so no doubt the other three also. The first is gold. The antitype is a matter of great interest, whether dispensational, or viewed as in the different ministries the Lord gave from heaven, as through Paul, there is a distinct river under distinct control. If Peter ministers, or any other, there must be control. A great difficulty is want of control, partisanship breeds where it is not

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present. Spiritual leadership means the withering up of all party feeling. With these streams there is one great governing idea, but each is functioning by itself, though in a sense not by itself. Thus each gathering among us is self-contained, yet not independent. Elders were to be chosen in each assembly, meaning each was to stand on its own feet, and yet eldership is there, and the assemblies are thus kept in right channels, and moving in the unity of the Spirit. Christ has gone above all heavens and has given gifts to men, pastors and teachers are one, they are not independent of each other or antagonistic; so there is unity, but the spirit of control in each subdivision. Each moves in relation to the whole, but stands upon its own feet realising the "one faith".

Now this source is to have wonderful results. Gold is the first thing mentioned; it is the prime thought, speaking of the representation of God. The bdellium, a fragrant thing, and onyx stone, precious, reminding us that numbers are not everything in our gatherings; we want quality in the numbers. So we see how the river is brought in primarily, and then how it branches out into the other streams.

When we come to Revelation, we find the throne of God is the source. "A river of water of life ... going out of the throne of God and of the Lamb". Let us not omit "the Lamb". It is an economy thought, that is, God is one great glorious thought, and the Lamb another. One's mind reverts to David and Solomon on the throne together. As David is about to die, we find the father and son on the throne together, and there is a wonderful development in the thoughts relating to the service of God. If you read 1 Chronicles 23, inclusive of what follows, you discover that it is the richest of all the historical writings, and it all flows out of a father and a son being on the throne together. There is the vast experience of David combined with the lovely character

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of Solomon -- his young and tender son, "an only one in the sight of my mother", and "a son unto my father", as we have in Proverbs. In no position do these relationships shine out more than when Solomon was king jointly with his father; how affectionately and reverentially he would sit side by side with David! In the last chapter of 1 Chronicles, he is spoken of as sitting on the throne of Jehovah.

Such is the mediatorial state of things, the deity of Christ maintained, yet in subjection. So now you have the throne of God and of the Lamb. In view of all that is said, one is impressed with the necessity of a throne. God and the Lamb are there in the city. Think of the influence of a Lamb, a suffering Ruler, now on the throne. Presently He will wield a rod of iron, but as a Shepherd, He never loses His character of grace and consideration. Then, following on the river going out of the throne of God and of the Lamb, it says, "In the midst of its street, and of the river, on this side and on that side, the tree of life, producing twelve fruits, in each month yielding its fruit; and the leaves of the tree for healing of the nations". The tree of life is Christ but not on the throne. The latter denotes authority, but the tree of life is subservient to need, we can get at it anywhere -- on either side -- and it bears twelve manner of fruits. Let us open the door to Christ in this way; it is a, great unifying thought. Partisan feelings wither us up, making too much of some, and not enough of others. Here there is a variety of fruits, every month has its own fruit. See what a thought this is as applied to us. Then there is virtue even in the very leaves, speaking of what we are as coming to the meeting room and in it. The leaves shed their healing in the street of the city, at a man's shop or workplace. The principle is that the leaves have a virtue, what we call profession, in our public capacity. It is what I am in my business or walk of life, how I

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affect people under me or over me. You go where a godly man is, and you find something there that has virtue. I could cite countries affected by the profession of christianity. I could cite remarks in this connection made by those not christians. In some of the biggest cities of the world, bad as they are, there is some good influence, and that arises from the saints. God is looking for this, and He is afforded more room in a city affected in this way. I have observed these things. One looks for the effect of virtue existing in professors of christianity. The captain of a ship, if a christian, affects the whole ship. A brother we all know, who is the head of a business, affects the whole business. God is thinking of public virtue, and I ought to think of it in my ways. I am indicating what christianity is.

Now in Ezekiel we have not simply the source of the river, but its relation to the house of God. In Revelation you have the thought of a city and kingdom and a river and the tree of life accessible from all directions with a great variety of fruit and leaves efficacious for healing. But here you have the house and waters issuing from it eastward, pointing our minds to the scene of hope, the coming in of Christ as the Daystar or Sun. This river is seen in a small way because the house, or those who form it, consists of a "little flock". The prophet here sees waters come down from the right side, but a river is in mind and it is wonderful how quickly it increases. When Paul got the Spirit how rapidly things increased on that line, as scope was given. The Spirit of God soon showed that a river was there. How quickly the apostle comes to an ordered state of things! He links himself with the brethren in Jerusalem, and then the river flows, and flows and flows. So here, after the depths were ascertained, we come to a river that "could not be passed through"; it could not, the prophet says. Then he is brought back to the

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bank, and trees were on each side. As we follow the increase, beginning with the waters issuing forth, and then the river going out toward the east, how our hearts are filled with hope, and we go forward with courage; dolefulness has no place there. Then there is this measuring man reaching into infinitude; and in such an environment. Then men in principle come to light, not one man merely to hold everything in his own hands. Paul found a lot of men around him. He was wonderful, but there were others. See the list of names of those who waited for him at Troas. Why are they given? They are all round Paul, so it says, "We being assembled to break bread", they are all dignified men. You might not have seen that at the beginning if you met Paul, but they have grown up around him. As there is the full acknowledgment of the Spirit of God you come to infinitude, and you say, There must be more results than one. The gifts are numerous and of great variety. So, in order that Ezekiel should not miss this, he is asked, "Son of man, hast thou seen this?" and he is brought back to see trees, very many on the one side and on the other. It is very interesting. We are not told what trees they were, but all drew from that river and Ezekiel might have missed them. We are all the product of that river, drawing our sap from the same root. At first Ezekiel appears not to have seen them; they were not like Simon Magus who would advertise himself, they had to be shown to him. These trees grow there, they do not show themselves, so to speak. When Peter's converts said, Men and brethren, what shall we do? they were recognising the trees -- not only Peter, though the others evidently did not say a word. A certain character distinguished these persons, healing was there and the work of God went on, as suggested here.

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THE SON OF GOD AND HIS GLORY

John 9:35 - 38; John 11:4, 37; John 12:12 - 19

What is in mind is the truth of the Son of God, and the glory, how He is glorified. Chapter 9 indicates the Son of God apprehended, and the circumstances under which He is apprehended. Those to whom He would make Himself known in this relation are persons who are outside the religious order of things in this world. The man in this chapter was cast out, and when Jesus heard this He finds him and says, "Thou, dost thou believe on the Son of God?". We have "thou" twice over here, you will notice. Then the glory of the Son of God comes out in the next sign, that of Lazarus. The Lord says of his sickness, "This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified by it". Thus, the main thought is seen to be that the Son of God was to be glorified, and this involved the glory of God. These matters are pursued in chapter 12, and we see the result in others. The supper is made for Him at Bethany, and then we get how He is honoured in entering Jerusalem, as the result of the crowd having heard that He was coming. This is all connected with the resurrection of Lazarus (verse 17). Entering into this is the link between the two signs, the blind man and Lazarus; and in verse 36 the Jews say, "Behold how he loved him!". The glory of the Son of God involved His love for His own.

Now, as has been said, those who know the glory of the Son of God are to be outside the religious order of things, as religion darkens the mind. It is very striking that it should be said the Lord finds this man; He needed him for the purpose on hand. In chapter 12 He needed the ass; it says, "And Jesus, having found a young ass, sat upon it". There are

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always needs for special occasions. This man is ready for the truth; and truth, it may be observed, is brought out as it is received; thus, the force of it is clearly seen. The man had a previous spiritual history, and he becomes an example of how the Son of God is received. The truth is clarified as received. Things are cumulative in John's gospel, and at the close it says, "Many other signs therefore also Jesus did before his disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life in his name". So every sign ought to be looked into and the effect seen. Lazarus must have been a remarkable man to look at. We must see the truth applied and working out. You see the person who receives the truth; a man is found for a purpose. The colt, too, was needed to fill out the position in chapter 12.

The Lord asked the man in John 9 if he believed on the Son of God and he replied, "And who is he, Lord ... ?" meaning that he was subject, a very important element. The dominance of Christ over the soul precedes the idea of sonship. The man did not know the Lord earlier, so it is remarkable that he should call Him 'Lord'. The works of God are thus seen to be taking form in an orderly way, then the question arises, Who is He? The Lord raised it with His disciples, "Who do men say that I the Son of man am?". And further, "Who do ye say that I am?". He would draw it out of us; it is a matter of enquiry. So we find Zacchaeus seeking to see Jesus, "who he was", and again in Genesis 24, the question is raised by Rebecca, "Who is the man that is walking in the fields to meet us?". "That is my master!"; that fitted then; it was no longer Abraham's son, but the servant's master. The truth of the Son of God calls for enquiry. It has been a matter of controversy; councils of old took it up and never solved it. They

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said the Son was begotten before all worlds. It is well worth looking into. Here the Lord says, "Thou, dost thou believe ... ?" as much as to say, You are a man of distinction spiritually, like Moses; the Lord said to him, "Moses, Moses!". Paul says to the jailor, "Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house", there we have 'thou' twice over again. Here is a man fitting into a special phase of the truth. This matter of the Son of God deserves our supreme consideration; it is a question of the state of soul that makes way for it.

There are two parts in the statement, "Thou hast both seen him", and then, "he that speaks with thee is he". It is "with thee" here; in the woman's case in John 4 it is "to thee": "I who speak to thee am he". Here it is association, a matter that enters into sonship. "Speaks with thee" -- what a precious thought! It says of Elijah and Elisha, "As they went on, and talked"; in principle it was on the platform of resurrection. You get the same sort of principle when the Lord says in Matthew 17:27, "For me and thee".

Certain truths are made intelligible under certain circumstances. The Corinthians were not equal to receiving the hidden wisdom. It is a pleasure to hear a person say, "Lord Jesus", because the apostle says, "No one can say, Lord Jesus, unless in the power of the Holy Spirit". There is something refreshing in hearing it on the lips of one and another.

One has to ask oneself, Am I findable when the Lord needs me? Someone may be needed to fill out a position at any time, and if he is not there, there will be a want. In chapter 10 we find what the Lord provides in the way of care for such an one as this man who was cast out as unfit for the place. The Lord had found him; the word 'find' is a characteristic word in John's gospel. The ass was found to carry the Lord into Jerusalem. There may be a

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blank and someone needed to fill it; the position here needed a man like this. One often notices wants, a gathering without an elder, for instance, the position not filled; the apostles chose elders in every assembly. Other features, too, may be needed, and the Lord is looking for persons to supply them. You may say, 'There is not much here; it is a small meeting', but exercise would bring out what was required, a brother or a sister to do two or three things. Sometimes casualties in a meeting have been so serious that there are only a few left, and they do double or treble the work; that is one idea. Then there is the thought of a remnant which carries the characteristics of the original in quality. This is found in the last days. This man was wholly trustworthy.

In chapter 11, a man falls sick, and what is in view is "that the Son of God may be glorified by it". The Jews see that the Lord loves that man. That is where His glory shines, it is not simply love to a sinner. Sonship comes out in the way He takes account of lovable people. Lazarus belongs to a family who are parentless, and the Lord loved the three, and the Jews took account of His love to Lazarus: "Behold how he loved him!". And some raised the question as to whether He could not have kept him alive. Yes, but that would not be for the glory of God. The Lord deliberately waited till the man died, and this was in order to bring out His love and the glory that shone.

It says in chapter 11: 2, "It was the Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick". She has in mind the glorification of Jesus; she did the thing at the right time, six days before the passover. It is as if Mary said, I shall never get another opportunity. Her circumstances made it the right time; the historical matter brought forward. She

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would surrender her own glory to bring out the glory of Christ. Young people sometimes hang back, waiting till the older ones give thanks, and think they are humble in doing so. But they are setting aside the priestly side of things and sonship. Sonship qualifies me to take part, and priestliness to take part properly. Mary anointed the Lord when the time was ripe; she would never have another opportunity. It is as clear as possible that if it is open to you to do a thing and you neglect it, you never get that chance again. The point is your heart is touched, and you respond. The most spiritual people are apt to make blunders. The bridegroom in Canticles appeals to the bride to "Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, mine undefiled; for my head is filled with dew, my locks with the drops of the night". She did not open. There was fragrance on the lock, but she missed the opportunity, and that never came back. Other opportunities would. So you have to control your mind and disallow anything that is unsuited to the moment, and that saves you.

Then after the raising of Lazarus, and the supper at Bethany, we have the entrance into Jerusalem. It is only in this gospel that the crowd is mentioned as taking branches of palms. They speak of victory. In Matthew it says they "kept cutting down branches from the trees", but not here, though no doubt they did it; they were not old branches found in the sideway. It is a question of victory here. It is an opportunity for the Lord, and it must not drop. (Compare Psalm 118).

In Matthew 23:39, the Lord says, "Ye shall in no wise see me henceforth until ye say, Blessed be he that comes in the name of the Lord". The Lord would say, I must be seen. So He found the young ass (John 12:14), not a foal, a generative idea. That is the kind of being, the young. The Lord said, as it were, I need that; they have quoted Psalm 118

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and this position must be filled out. Is there a want in any meeting that is not filled out, something that is needed to make the glory shine? The ass was needed to fill out this glorious position. Mary filled out the other. It sets forth what the Lord does in the assembly, not merely a suggestive thought, but variety filling out the prophetic glory.

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SPIRITUAL MEASUREMENT

Exodus 15:20, 21; John 12:3

My thought is spiritual measurement. It is applied to many things in Scripture. It is a leading thought, a leading word in the divine language. There could not be proportion and balance without measure, and without proportion and balance creation could not exist; so it is in the spiritual realm, as in the passage in Ephesians, "Until we all arrive ... at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ", Ephesians 4:13.

I have selected these two passages not as giving us the acme of the thought of measurement but as presenting the measurement of what is; whether in a full-grown man, or a babe, or one who is a young man spiritually, for we have each measured in Scripture. We read of eight days, a month, a year, twelve years, thirty years, fifty years, and a widow not to be put on the list at less than sixty. So here, whatever the measure may be, the point is that it should be itself. We are apt in divine things to go beyond our spiritual measure in our words and expressions. This is not wholly unacceptable because, as in natural things, children must acquire the use of language. They use words beyond themselves and grow up to them in time. One wonders what a child would do if left to itself. How did language begin? All must have been objective at first. So the believer must take on words and phrases objectively and he may use what is beyond his spiritual measure. Then, unless he checks himself accurately by the Spirit's power, he is sure to err by going beyond himself. Paul says, "I exercise myself to have always a conscience void of offence", Acts 24:16. The conscience is the subjective side and unless a man has a good conscience in this matter, he will do damage to

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himself and to others. So the pace of the objective must be commensurate with that of the subjective; otherwise, we shall be exposed as stunted in our growth. I believe the present great pressure on the saints is to bring out our measure, whether the things we have been receiving through others have been formative in us so that we can stand the test and the strain. Our position is right. It has been arrived at by the Scriptures of truth, but the prophets themselves were formed by the things they uttered. They were exemplary of these things. We are told that no prophecy was ever uttered by man's will. You may say, 'What about Balaam?' but this is peculiarly true of Balaam's prophecy. Though a wicked man, so firmly was he held by God that he uttered a most wonderful prophecy. It was not his own will, but God put words into his mouth. He was not exemplary of what he prophesied. Indeed, he admitted that what he said did not apply to himself at all, "I shall see him, but not now; I shall behold him, but not nigh", Numbers 24:17. What a terrible thing to confess, that in the day of Christ he would see Him but not nigh. Every christian will see Him near by. We shall be with Him. He says to us now, "Come near to me, I pray you". It is a precious thought, but not so with Balaam. There are those to whom Christ has to say, "I know you not", Luke 13:25. He knows everyone in one sense, but to some He says, "Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity", Luke 13:27. The Lord did not allow Judas to await the judgment-seat before acquainting him with the knowledge that he was a devil. It was while he was still an apostle that this was said.

Characteristically the prophets were exemplary of what they spoke, of the truth they ministered. Daniel is particularly exemplary. He is called "greatly beloved". I should not like to be out of

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that. Gabriel says, "O man greatly beloved", (Daniel 10:19), and again, "Go thou thy way ... thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days", Daniel 12:13. Where shall I appear in my lot? Daniel lived to be an old man and all those years he would have it in his soul that he would be in his lot at the end of days. I want to have that in mind. I do not want to be tossed like a cork on the ocean. We want to stand in our lot. Think of Daniel's terrible experience in the den of lions, but there was in him the power of spiritual personality. It is a question of what we are in this storm that is upon us, tossed about or standing firm, not alone, but as in the body. It is a mighty thing. It is the mystery really. There is no greater thing in the universe. It is a cube, a six-sided solid (Revelation 21). It is constructed of persons all able to stand against the storm.

In Exodus 15 we have Miriam introduced in a remarkable way, not just as a woman, but "Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron". The whole history is there at once. She must have been about ninety years old. Some must wait a long time to be specially singularised; others come into it early like Timothy. She comes in at the end of a wonderful composition, the first great contribution to the service of God. Singing is a great part of the service of God. It comes in here. It is a song of redemption. One is hardly in the good of redemption if one does not sing. It says, "Then sang Moses and the children of Israel". They are over the Red Sea. The blood had been sprinkled. They are a redeemed people, and it is a precious thought at this time that we are redeemed. The hand of violence has been stretched out to claim us, but it is interfering with the rights of Christ in redemption. The song runs on beyond the subjective state in which the people were; it runs into Canaan though they were only just out of

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the land of Egypt. So it is with our hymns. Some of them are beyond us all, but we would not be without them. This song speaks of the dukes of Edom, of the inhabitants of Philistia and of other matters. Who are all these? They had not met these people yet, but as we lay hold of the song we shall not be so much afraid of them when we get near them. It is objective truth, but it will stand us in good stead presently. We should not sing it unless we have honest hearts, but we intend going that way. I purpose in my heart to go that way. The song sung by Miriam does not add one word to what the people sing. Indeed she only sings the opening strains but she uses an instrument and we read nothing of an instrument until we come to this. We do not talk about instruments when we are on objective lines. It is subjective when I have an instrument. Even Moses does not speak of an instrument. They are typical of the persons themselves. My point is how far on are you in this service of God? Are you still in the objective stage or are you considering yourself as a formed vessel in this storm and that you can go on and sing to God despite it? It is a question of your measure. Miriam had a timbrel, rather a noisy instrument but an instrument all the same. It has not the strains of a harp, but you, can make music with it, music that is really from the heart. Paul says, "I will sing with the Spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also", 1 Corinthians 14:15. When you come to David's time, you get other instruments, but this one is not cast aside. When you begin to sing with real feeling you are an instrument, not something to be thrown aside, but you are it. Miriam was not alone; all the women went out after her with instruments and with dances. It was real and genuine. It was only the first verse of the hymn, but they sang it with real feeling. If there is real feeling in the service of God,

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all the brethren are affected. You may not have gone very far but it is real.

With Mary of Bethany it is no question of singing. In Jerusalem they had been singing after the Supper, but this is not the Lord's supper here. This is a supper made for Him. We do not make the Lord's supper. It is already made. It belongs to the assembly system. It is an integral part of it and cannot be separated from it, but here they made Him a supper and they are morally entitled to do it. He came to Bethany six days before the passover, "where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead". In this section of John there are two parts to the glory. One part of the glory of Christ is here. Mary was essential to it. The Lord did not send for her or find her. She was there already. He did not find any one of the three. He knew they were there. You are already in your local setting. The Lord expects you to be there. He would not have come to Bethany if they were not there. I would like to be in my place when the Lord comes. Localities have a great place in the assembly economy. But in the second part of the Lord's glory in this section He found an ass. He was going to Jerusalem and He needed an ass to make up the glory position. Mary was an essential part of it but when He was about to enter Jerusalem, His own capital, an ass was needed. Perhaps some brother or sister is needed in this room. Will you be intreated in vain? He found it and rode on it. Young people may think themselves of little account, but if you belong to the assembly you are of very great account. The Lord is here to find you. We should all be concerned as to our local position. Are we all ready for Christ to come? So in Bethany it speaks of the dead man Lazarus. It was a wonderful position. He was dead still from the Colossian standpoint. You could not find him in the usual haunts of men. He

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sat at the table in dignity. Martha was there too, serving, and Mary was there, outstandingly there. "Then took Mary a pound of ointment"; that is the idea of spirituality. It is not a low measure. She could sing the whole hymn. I have no doubt she could sing any hymn extant at that time. She could sing as an instrument. In Luke it speaks of a box, but in John she herself is the container. What a measure! The alabaster box means that I have kept myself from contamination, but that is not present here. She herself is the container. It is a full measure, a pound. It must have been in something, but God tells us that she is the vessel. She could sing any hymn, speaking spiritually. There are 150 Psalms, divided into five books, and whatever you want to express you can find it there. The Lord Himself added the word "psalms" in Luke 24 to "Moses and prophets". If I am interested in the Psalms, I am a singer. So Mary of Bethany could sing any hymn in our book. She could sing them all through. Many can sing only one verse, but let us sing it well. Mary's pound is the full thought of spirituality. This is a great spiritual scene. God is looking for that today in the midst of the pressure and He would have us all singing together.

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THE ASSEMBLY

Acts 1:4 - 6; Acts 20:7

These verses will suffice to show how the thought of the assembly develops. The Lord had spoken of the assembly after Peter's confession of Him, saying, "On this rock I will build my assembly", and the thought is then announced that it should be invulnerable against the gates of hell. Having that in view, as well as other scriptures, I thought it would be helpful to consider as to whether we understand what it is to assemble. In moving about, one discerns that saints have more the thought of a congregation in their minds than of an assembly. The idea of a clergyman having sprung up in the history of the church outwardly, the thought of a congregation has almost universally taken the place of the thought of the assembly, and many who are breaking bread have scarcely any different thought from that. The idea of a congregation is a number of people together without any special responsibility, the responsibility being vested in one or two. The principle of a clergyman fosters this, and depends upon it, whereas the thought of an assembly is that each one has a share in things; it is mutual. We come together, sharing mutually what obligations or what privileges there may be. The Lord's thought was that people should be found in local companies taking up assembly character, so that each one should be there intelligently and with a sense of responsibility as having the mutual state of things at heart. Thus they deliberate, because "the gates of hell" supposes a counsel of evil against the thought of God.

The invulnerability of the assembly largely lies in the power of discernment that is there. Paul said that he would not have the enemy getting an

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advantage against us. The conditions indicated at Corinth exposed the saints to Satan having an advantage over them, and the apostle says, "We are not ignorant of his thoughts". Now, if the saints are in a position to know the very thoughts of Satan, you may be sure that he can get no advantage. If a general has the means of discovering not only the counsels, but also the very thoughts of his antagonist, what can the enemy do? Hence the king of Syria was discomfited, because the king of Israel knew his thoughts; Elisha the prophet could tell him the words which the king of Syria spoke in his bed-chamber. I think it is important to take up the thought of the assembly in that way, because we are the assembly militant. Of course there is the side of privilege, but the position today is the saints are the assembly militant, and there are the means by which we can tell the very counsel and thoughts of the enemy, "He that is spiritual discerneth all things ... We have the mind of Christ", that is, the thinking faculty. I do not think the apostle meant to convey that every Christian could say that, but the spiritual discerns all things; he knows Satan's thoughts, as well as the thoughts of men. What can the enemy do with such a company who take counsel together? The advantage of an assembly is that we can take counsel together. The Lord said, "Where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them", meaning that we should take up the matters connected with His name. He leaves us to do it, only He supports us in the doing of it; so that the meetings in which brethren confer and take counsel together are of great importance. It supposes ability to look around and see that in which the enemy might attack. At Corinth, the man had judged himself, but they were not restoring him quickly enough.

The exercise of gift in the assembly is an additional thought. The apostle shows the relative value of prophecy as compared with other gifts, but the

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thought of the assembly is also dealt with -- the importance of taking counsel. In Acts 15 we read the apostles and elders came together to consider the matter. That is the great thing. One great feature of our position is, "We took sweet counsel together", and that is so as we are together in love. "Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend"; we get encouragement, and the counsel is sweet, so it says, "In the multitude of counsellors there is safety". The Lord is with us in that, and the affairs that are of mutual interest in the locality are dealt with in wisdom; even if it be a secular matter, instead of going to court, you put the least in the assembly to judge, but when you come to spiritual matters it does not say the least in the assembly; you call the assembly together in its entirety.

The first divine mention of the assembly is in Matthew 16. The interests of Christ are vested there; He says the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. What is involved is that those who compose it are qualified to judge, and they are enabled to maintain divine principles, principles that will not give way against the pressure. Divine principles are everlasting principles. We have to stand by the principles, for the enemy never relents. Taking counsel together helps all the saints. Think of what we are as constituted by the Spirit of God: the saints will rule the universe according to divine appointment; in the light of that we learn to administer now. The church economy is set in that way in localities; the Lord never intended that the assembly should be ruled from any centre on earth. Metropolitanism only comes in in connection with heaven, Jerusalem which is above. The divine thought is that there should be local companies in which God's principles are maintained, hence at Thessalonica the principle of assembling is seen. Paul went in among them; he was the great former of assemblies;

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he had that before him in every locality in which he carried on his service. In teaching them, he would have before him the idea of the assembly, so it says the Thessalonians were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia. The thought is that there should be a company in the district in which divine principles are maintained. It is for us to see how this works out now, dealing with things as they were dealt with primarily. We have to work out these same principles, and in doing so we have to accept the breakdown, and not pretend to be the assembly now.

We are together now on the line that comes in in Acts 20:11. In the beginning it was an unbroken discourse of Paul, but after they had broken bread they conversed; as if the apostle would carry on the mind of God, but others spoke. Coming together "in assembly" is for the breaking of bread, but in 1 Corinthians 14 you have, "If the whole assembly come together into one place"; there it is for ministry. It is not 'all of you assembled', but the whole assembly coming together into one place, for the exercise of gift or ministry, and the gift of prophecy being in exercise would bring to light what was there. If one came in who was unconverted, the secrets of his heart would be made manifest, and he would report that God is in you of a truth. The apostle does not say, If ye be come together in assembly; it is a continuation of chapter 11 in a way, but it has not the same official character. As convened now we are not together in assembly; it is more in the nature of a conversation, or ministry. Then it goes on: "When ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine ..."; each of you has something; that would be an open meeting, but what we are at today is not that; it is more like the conversing.

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I think the coming together in assembly governs the other, because it says, immediately after, speaking of coming together in assembly, "Despise ye the church of God?" In chapter 14, "If there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church". These passages show it is still the thought of the assembly, and further, in the light of that, it is enjoined that the women keep silence. Coming together in assembly directly governs the thought of the Lord's supper. A meeting like the present has not the same official character.

Referring to Acts 1 first of all it is said of the Lord, "Being assembled with them", and then, "They therefore, being come together". The one is from His side and the other from our side. When they were come together they began to ask questions. "Being assembled with them" would give Him the dominant place, so He, "being assembled with them, commanded them". That would answer to the thought of the assembly, in which He is pre-eminent; the other side is that we may ask.

We take counsel, and this is largely the way in which the gates of hell are overthrown. There is deliberation together that what is for God may be maintained and that in a divine way. Brethren ought to see the great advantage of taking counsel in regard to matters that relate to the Lord's interests in their district, and indeed in the whole world. Thus the truth of "My assembly" should give a tone to us in all our intercourse; we should carry about with us a sense of being connected with it. Think of what is vested in it! that the Lord has something here now in which His interests are vested. Every believer in the locality should commit himself to this, but we know they do not all do that, but the moment one does, he becomes the object of Satan's special attack. We

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are bound up with one another, and the counsel that we have helps greatly. If we have the thought of the assembly rightly before us, we see that there is very great scope. 1 Corinthians 11 to 14 shows what a wide scope there is. We are concerned about edification, and anything that makes for that is quite within the scope of these scriptures.

I think the Lord in the forty days was teaching the disciples by example how to assemble. It is a great lesson to learn: "Being assembled with them". You can understand how Peter and John would take note of what He did, and of how He acted. They must have been accustomed to assemble together even before the Lord died. Luke has in mind the new thing coming in.

In Antioch the Holy Spirit said, "Separate me now Barnabas and Saul"; the saints are then brought into it, and having laid their hands on them they let them go. I think it is under that head that we may ask a brother to minister. The Spirit sent them out, and the others laid their hands on them. The power to minister comes from the Spirit; He sends you, and gives you the power. At Troas (Acts 20) a number of places were represented, Derbe, Berea, Thessalonica, and of Asia the small province in which the seven churches were, and it says that on the first day of the week "we being assembled to break bread"; the moral element, not the official, predominated. The "we" covers all; not only the saints at Troas and these visiting brethren, but even Paul himself. They did not come together to hear Paul, nor does it appear they asked him to preach; he comes in to indicate the mind of God governing the position.

Breaking bread is the local character of things. In Acts 20 they brought the young man away

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alive; that was after the breaking of bread, I think it right to take note of what there may be present. The way is the way of mutuality; the rich is not to give more, or the poor less. The breaking of bread was partaken of in the full light of Paul's ministry; that gives it its true setting, which is the purpose of God. Acts 20 is a love chapter; you have embraces in the first verse, "Paul called unto him the disciples, and embraced them", and in the last verse but one they "fell on Paul's neck, and kissed him"; then in the middle of the chapter you have Paul enfolding the boy; so that it is a love chapter, which is very suggestive, and would fit in with the way in which the Lord's supper is restored to the assembly. The presence of the apostle was everything, and the fact that he would depart on the morrow has a spiritual significance. The instruction in the chapter is wonderful; the more you look into it, the more you see that it is a chapter of love, in divine light; it is the top note of apostolic ministry. The love in this chapter fits in with the epistle to the Ephesians. Their falling on his neck and kissing him ardently reminds one of Luke 15, the divine side; how the gentiles had received the love, the magnificence of the gift from God. Paul is here representative of the Lord, and the fact that they fell on his neck and kissed him shows that there was a complete response to the love manifested. There was the evidence of first love.

The recovery of the breaking of bread is indicated in this chapter, but we are brought down to the mutual side, and that shakes the outward historical system to its foundations. The "we" sets the whole fabric aside. "We being assembled to break bread". Out of that "we" there is a spiritual system built up; that is the position we

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are in now; it is the nucleus of the new foundation of things. Heaven itself is marked by the spirit of mutuality. After the cloud on the mount of transfiguration had passed away, they saw "Jesus only with themselves", Mark 9:8. Think of what that means!

There was only one Paul, but there were many lights, Timothy and the others. The jailor asked for a light. The lights are in the assembly.

God would look for the freshness of life among us; the truth of eternal life coming in has brought that out. It has been a great exercise, and the result of it would be to bring in life in its primary conception, life brought in by the embrace of Paul.

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THE MEMORIAL OF THE LORD

Matthew 26:13, 26 - 30; 1 Corinthians 11:17 - 26

J.T. It occurred to me that the light that shone from heaven around Saul enters into everything that he treats of, and above all, the Lord's supper. There is nothing perhaps that has occasioned more controversy among the people of God than the Lord's supper and yet it is encircled with the greatest light, as if the divine intent was that there should be no doubt or shade of doubt as to its meaning and bearing. So that, in introducing it in this epistle, the apostle regards the saints as intelligent persons and as such they were to judge what he said. Matthew and Mark do not speak of the Lord's supper as a memorial; they speak of the woman who anointed the Lord in Simon the leper's house as to be remembered, what she did was to be spoken of wherever the gospel should be preached as a memorial of her. Luke alone speaks of the memorial of Christ, and he presents the subject evidently as supporting Paul's presentation of it. A memorial of what the woman did, if understood, I think would lead to the condition suitable for the memorial of the Lord's supper. Perhaps we have not thought much about this memorial of the woman.

G.W. Not in connection with the Supper, I am sure. Perhaps you would open it up a little as to how what the woman did prepares us for the memorial of the Lord's supper.

J.T. I was thinking the Lord's supper has become enshrouded with the greatest darkness among the people of God generally. As we all know it has become degraded into idolatry in some; the grossest darkness enshrouds the institution with some; and then with others, uncertainty and materialism. So the

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obvious reason is that what this woman represents has not been observed. The Lord enjoined here that what she did should be told wherever the gospel should be preached as a memorial of her. If what she represents were announced in the ministry of the gospel, the converts would be prepared for the memorial of the Lord's supper, because in Matthew she would represent one who regards the Lord Jesus as the One alone fit to govern and rule, and in Mark she would look for the levitical service as seen in Christ. I think if christians generally understood these two features the memorial of the Lord's supper would be seen in its proper setting. The government of the church of God is in the hands of men who are in many instances perhaps not christians at all, and what can you expect but darkness and uncertainty? Then the ministry, too, is carried on by men who are not christians; and how can they comply with what the woman would look for? So that the government of the church and the ministry are in the hands generally of men who are not really christians, and hence the darkness. So that evidently the Lord's injunction in regard of her has been overlooked, disregarded.

G.W.W. The moral import of it evidently has been very much overlooked. It has been more looked at as an act of devotedness.

J.T. It was an act of devotedness, but it was devotedness marked by intelligence. She knew what she was doing; she anointed His head.

Ques. Are you connecting that with the verse, "I speak as to intelligent persons"?

J.T. Yes.

W.F.J. She was commended then and distinguished for it.

Ques. May we go back a point? Would the gospel produce this kind of person?

J.T. I think it would, rightly presented, but it is spoken of as an addition, "Wheresoever this gospel

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shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her". That is, if you preach the gospel and carry this out you would speak about this woman, and you would have to make plain what she had in her mind.

Rem. I wondered if you were going back to the origin of the thing, the kind of gospel that is preached; the gospel of God concerning His Son would produce this kind of convert, and have in view that we might be intelligent in our minds in regard to the Supper.

J.T. Yes, that is what I thought. The convert would be told by the evangelist something of the import of the gospel of Matthew.

Rem. The evangelist would lead the convert to an intelligent appreciation of what is presented.

J.T. Yes. He would be saved from a human organisation. He would look for the kind of government that Matthew presents. So in Mark, he would look for the kind of ministry that Mark presents and would not recognise the clerical system as it is.

Ques. Would Matthew present the thought that only Christ is to be distinguished?

J.T. Yes, as regards government. So that the hierarchical system would be undermined at once; it is not the idea in Matthew; nor is the clerical idea the idea in Mark.

G.W. Therefore the importance of the man who proclaims the preaching being himself intelligent on this line or he will only misdirect those to whom he preaches.

J.T. Yes. Many a preacher sends his converts to the system, but he does not think of the woman, what she did.

Ques. Why does she anoint Him for his burying?

J.T. That governed the position at that time: He was going to die to establish these things. They could only become effective thus. She saw that He was going to die: it was a very great thing that she did

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discern this. A preacher is a former of assemblies really, according to Ecclesiastes, and if I have the assembly in view in my preaching I will make a good deal of this woman, for she prepares the way for it. So the assembly Paul speaks of is an assembly formed of such persons. When you come together in assembly, the first thing before you is the Lord's Supper. If we are in the light of what this woman did, we shall be fit for it.

Ques. Do you think that the woman was in the full enjoyment of what she did in intelligence?

J.T. Evidently she was intelligent as to what she did: she anointed His head. Luke speaks about an anointing on the feet and John speaks of an anointing on the feet, whereas in these two gospels (Matthew and Mark) it is the head, referring to the mind of God set out in Him officially in the two relations of which we have been speaking, because it is no less than the mind of God.

Rem. Although she anointed Him for His burying, she knew He was coming in glory, as you get in the previous chapter; she was in the light of that.

J.T. No doubt.

Ques. After the convert is delivered from the systems of men, a good deal has to be taken down before the structure can go on, is that the work of the preacher or the teacher?

J.T. I suppose the teacher would come in, but I think the gospel should lay the basis in the soul for everything that is to follow. If you present Christ aright, and present this woman and what she did, I think the foundation is laid for the structure of the assembly. That is where the popular gospel comes short; it does not lay the basis for the church; hence, "I have not found thy works complete before my God" (Revelation 3:2), meaning that Protestantism has never laid the basis for the church in the preaching.

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G.W. Would you say the preacher's work really is to introduce souls consciously to the Person concerning whom the teacher unfolds all the moral excellencies and bearings, so as to affect him? The preacher is not satisfied until the soul is really introduced to the Person.

J.T. The Person, not only in regard of what He is God-ward, but what He is officially. I think Matthew and Mark enlarge on those two features, what He is in government and what He is in ministry, or what He was, for we have to learn the mind of God from Christ. The four gospels give us it in its completeness, particularly these two, because they make way for Luke.

W.F.J. Neither of those two speak of remembrance, do they? It is only Luke who speaks of it.

J.T. No.

G.W. You mean that until we have apprehended in some measure what is presented in Matthew and Mark, we are not free to take up what Luke presents?

J.T. Yes. Matthew and Mark help us to emerge from the complicated state of things at Jerusalem. The passover and the Lord's supper merge, according to the records of those two evangelists, and you see the necessity for that. It seems a bit difficult perhaps for many to dissect but we have to make room for the patience of God, and that is where His government comes in. The government of God required that Jerusalem should be owned even after the Spirit came down, so that the assembly is a separate entity here; there are the Jew, the gentile, and the church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32). The announcement of that was deferred, because the patience of God required that He should continue with Israel, that there should be the fullest opportunity given for them to accept the glad tidings, and so Matthew and Mark, I think, have to be understood before we can see how the assembly is to be regarded as a separate entity here according to

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Corinthians, and I think the understanding of this woman's act helps.

W.F.J. In regard to the gospels, is not the Luke mission carried on in the Acts?

J.T. They all have their bearing: you would not leave out any. Luke is the standpoint of the pure grace of God, but you have to take account of the government of God as well, otherwise you would not perhaps make allowance for the patience of God on the one hand, and for His retributive judgment on the other. Our dispensation is not strictly a dispensation of judgment, but judgment did enter into it in the government of God: it came on the Jew even in our own dispensation, so there is overlapping, and in order to reconcile these things you have to understand Matthew and Mark.

G.W. Wrath did not come upon the people fully until they rejected the testimony of His having been glorified: it was essential that should be presented to them. That was the final testimony to them.

Rem. You mean, the refusal of the Spirit, the testimony to Him as a glorified Person by the Spirit.

G.W. Peter said that God may send Jesus Christ to them for the restitution of all things (Acts 3:20, 21). They refused Him in His glorified condition.

J.T. They said, We will not have this Man to reign over us.

Ques. How are you going to bring in the government of God in regard of the gospel of the grace of God?

J.T. What this woman did would help you. You see that in the government of God certain parts of humanity are in view. You see that two-thirds of the human race is left practically in the dark. You can only account for that by the government of God; you cannot explain it. Europe has been wonderfully favoured. Well now, the government of God relates to those two things. If Europe has been favoured, the

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government of God is sure to follow the rejection of the truth.

Ques. In what way do you present the government of God as to individuals in the light you were speaking of? What a man sows he reaps.

J.T. Quite. The Jew is not addressed as a Jew now; you deal with him as a man. God is not recognising him as a Jew now; that is His government; whereas in Saul's time he was dealt with as a Jew.

Ques. How do you deal with the gentile?

J.T. As a man.

Ques. Does the government of God come in in chapter 28 where the disciples were told to go to Galilee?

J.T. Yes, there it is again, meaning that Jerusalem is disregarded.

Ques. Would you say it would be out of keeping to have a special mission to the Jews?

J.T. Yes, that is out of keeping with the moment.

Ques. You link that with the Mediator?

J.T. Yes, that is the position now, "God is one, and the mediator of God and men one, the man Christ Jesus", 1 Timothy 2:5. So that prayers are for all men and the Jews are included necessarily.

Ques. Would Paul be presenting something of the government of God when he said to the Jews, "Behold, ye despisers, and wonder and perish; for I work a work in your days, a work which ye will in no wise believe if one declare it to you", Acts 13:41?

J.T. Yes, the government of God was overtaking them. I wanted specially to show that what this woman did, as rightly understood, would save us and deliver us from the darkening influences that surround the Lord's supper, so that we should have it as it is in the light of Paul's ministry; for he emphasises the light. The Spirit of God says, "A light from heaven", and that is the light in which we ought to understand the Lord's supper. Paul speaks of it as a light "shining

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from heaven", and again as "a light above the brightness of the sun", and that should govern the Lord's supper. The thing is as clear as noonday, but the darkening influences that have come in hold most of the Lord's people.

Ques. So we suffer in consequence in regard of it. What do you think was in the mind of the Lord in the confirmation of this from the glory to Paul?

J.T. I think that the thing should be seen in its proper setting in relation to the assembly. It is a light from heaven to govern the assembly. The position at Jerusalem tended to complicate the Lord's supper and indeed everything. There was a complicated state of things at Jerusalem because of the longsuffering of God: He was loath to give them up, but the light from heaven meant that all that uncertainty should disappear, and I think that is what you get in Paul's ministry. It is a complete disentanglement of the truth and all that stood connected with it from the Jewish settings, and so today from religious settings for that is where the darkening influences are. So we have in Luke an upper room. In addition to what this woman did, we have in Luke that the Lord sent Peter and John to prepare. I think that would correspond administratively with the light the woman's act conveys. Peter would shut out all human innovations, for he had authority, having the keys of the kingdom, and John would insist on family conditions. Peter and John were sent by the Lord in Luke.

G.W. How do you connect that with the woman as to John?

J.T. I only mean in a general way that Peter would insist on the government as the Lord Jesus set it out; he represented the Lord: John would insist on family conditions.

Rem. He does not give us the Supper.

J.T. No, but he was sent with Peter to prepare for it, and he does prepare for it now. John 13 is most

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essential to the Supper, as we have often remarked. John speaks of the things without naming them, "Thy teeth are like a flock of shorn sheep, which go up from the washing" (Song of Songs 4:2); that is the principle of John 13.

Rem. In that way the service of Christ leads Peter much to the same goal as the Supper. You have the thing that goes with it, the atmosphere of it.

W.F.J. John 13 and 14 were spoken at the Supper table.

J.T. Quite.

G.W. We should be exercised that each one of us might be delivered from these principles that are going to cloud the Supper in our souls: principles which are abroad in the world and which our own hearts naturally turn to when we get down in our moral condition. Has not that been really the reason things have come back to the hierarchical and clerical system? A worldly principle has been taken up to make up the lack of what they should have been spiritually.

J.T. Neither Peter nor John mentions the Lord's supper formally, but they really prepare us. Peter's epistles are governmental and they make for the support of Paul's doctrine. Peter writes his letter from Babylon apparently: a very suggestive thing, for what is Babylonish is coming in, and he writes therefore with authority. I do not know who carried the post, but evidently it was carried straight across Palestine to Asia Minor. He is speaking from Babylon to the Jews of the dispersion in Cappadocia, Asia, Bithynia, and so on, the provinces of Asia Minor. These are the provinces in which Paul's labours began and in which God blessed him, in which the assemblies were formed. Paul habitually went to the Jewish synagogues first, but the time was passing for that, and the believing Jews of the dispersion were to learn that it was no longer a question of the Jew first; they were to

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learn not to look to Jerusalem any more. They themselves were living stones and had to come to Christ, not to Jerusalem. "Yourselves ... are being built up a spiritual house", so they should not have to go to Jerusalem any more.

W.F.J. They got the support of the Spirit; those who remained in Jerusalem did not.

J.T. Just so. You can see how Peter's epistle as it was received and understood would make way for Paul's ministry.

W.F.J. It is very interesting that Peter and John should both take up things in connection with Paul's ministry.

J.T. Yes, it shows how God maintained practical unity, and how Peter and John prepare for the Lord's supper as Paul gives it to us.

E.M. What does the apostle Paul refer to in speaking of what "I delivered to you"? Had he told them about these things beforehand?

J.T. He evidently delivered it to them during his ministry amongst them, and he reminds them of that now.

E.M. And that was all confirmed by the light from heaven and the special revelation that was given. That is an important fact for christendom today -- the revelation from heaven.

J.T. Yes, it ought to be seen that the Lord's supper stands in relation to the light given from heaven, and Peter and John now prepare us for the Lord's supper as Paul has delivered it to us. That is to say, it is no longer connected with a house. They broke bread in the house, it says in Acts 2; now it is in the assembly; it is separated from the believer's house and connected with the assembly.

Ques. Is it connected with the thought of Christ being the head of every man?

J.T. It comes in in that same connection.

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Rem. I was thinking that the light of the Supper is found in a circle where the headship of Christ is recovered to the saints.

J.T. There is no doubt that the first part of 1 Corinthians 11 bears on the second part.

Rem. Would you agree that the Lord, in confirming this from the glory, had in mind that it might be set up by the apostle in the Spirit's power? that we might see there is nothing clerical about the Supper, but it is established livingly in the Spirit's power, hence it will be ever in freshness?

J.T. Quite. It is kept before us continually that the Lord's supper is connected with the assembly and the assembly only. In Matthew and Mark it is the evening, whereas Luke says, "When the hour was come", all having in view what should ultimately take place in the gentile church. That is, we do not have the Lord's supper in the evening: if we did not have Luke, it seems to me that spiritual sentiment would lead us to have it in the evening, but Luke says "the hour" and that leaves it open.

Ques. When is that?

J.T. It seems to be left open. As intelligent persons, in the government of God, we have a free day now. The first day of the week is allowed free and we are free to use it, and it seems to me that Luke anticipates that.

Ques. Would you say a word further on the thought of the Lord instituting the Supper and then of Paul receiving it, and the heavenly light connected with it?

J.T. I think we ought to take account of the one through whom it has come to us; that is why I ventured to refer to his conversion; the light is so dwelt upon, and it affected not only Paul but those who were with him. Those with him did not hear what was said, but the light that shone round about him they saw. I think emphasis should be laid on that in

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connection with everything he treats of, especially the Lord's supper, for he received it from the Lord; he received it in that light, so you do not get it in connection with a man's household.

Rem. If we imbibe the spirit of this woman, we will bow to what the apostle says he received of the Lord.

J.T. Yes, quite.

Ques. Is there any feature in Matthew's and Mark's presentation that applies to us at the present time or do they both refer to the transitional period?

J.T. There are features; one especially: it was "as they were eating". Luke does not say anything about that, it is "this do" -- what the Lord did, but Matthew and Mark emphasise the eating. I think that feature has a great bearing on us because 1 Corinthians treats of the passover or the feast of unleavened bread before you have the Lord's supper, and we are enjoined to keep that feast and to do so means you have to eat; that is what comes in in chapter 10. Eating is the thought of communion or fellowship, and the Corinthians were eating in relation to idolatry. What they were eating in Matthew and Mark was the unleavened bread; if we are not eating that, we may be sure the Lord's supper is a dead letter to us.

G.W. It is God's solemn judgment on the whole principle that actuates this scene and actuates our own souls in lawlessness.

W.P. It says in Matthew, too, "Take, eat: this is my body".

J.T. That bears out what we were saying; they were eating the unleavened bread, for how can you come to eat what represents the Lord's body in a spiritual way unless you are eating the unleavened bread? In the systems they know nothing of this: how could the religious leaders eat unleavened bread?

Ques. What is eating the unleavened bread?

J.T. It is reduction.

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Ques. Is it feeding on Christ as the One who would not allow any leaven?

J.T. Quite. But that system is symbolised by what the Lord said, "Leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal until it had been all leavened", Matthew 13:33. The systems around us are the very opposite to unleavened bread.

Ques. It is called a feast, and the exclusion of evil can hardly be a feast, can it?

J.T. Well, there are the two things: there is the passover -- Christ our passover sacrificed for us; that is there always: but apart from that, you must supply the unleavened bread. God supplies the passover, but to have part in that, we must bring the unleavened bread ourselves. That was symbolised in Matthew and Mark; while they were eating, He takes what symbolises Himself and His love and gives it to them.

Ques. Is 1 Peter 2:1, "Laying aside therefore all malice ..." the enforcement of this?

J.T. Yes, that goes with it exactly. Think how precious it is, to eat the Supper, but who will value it save one who eats the unleavened bread?

Rem. Lot baked unleavened bread, we are told.

J.T. It was to his credit he did that.

Rem. I suppose every true christian has it in some sense, but the thing is to eat it in relation to Christ.

Ques. Does not the unleavened bread represent Christ as a Man here of an entirely different order to anything before? The feeding on that would prepare one to partake of the Supper in a worshipful spirit that such an One as that has gone down into death.

J.T. So it is a continuous thing. Sincerity and truth would be within the reach of the youngest.

Ques. How do we supply the unleavened bread?

J.T. It is a question of the state of our souls. One is sincere in what one is doing, too.

Ques. In Corinthians the apostle seems to connect the thought of the memorial with what we do, whereas

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the eating is connected with the announcement, is it not?

J.T. That is how it stands. In chapter 10 it is the cup which we bless and the bread which we break: that is to bring out what these things are. Chapter 11 is to bring out the memorial, what the Lord did.

Ques. Would you say that Paul adds anything to Luke's presentation of the Supper or are they parallel?

J.T. I think Luke rather supports what we have here, but this word, "As often as ye shall eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye announce the death of the Lord, until he come" is additional. In verse 24, Mr. Darby leaves out, "Take, eat", (A.V.) but in connection with the cup it does say, "This do, as often as ye shall drink it, in remembrance of me".

Rem. The disciples would not have understood the Supper, while the woman seems to be intelligent; they say, Why this waste?

J.T. The disciples were not so far on as she: if they had been she would not have been singled out in this way. The Lord loves to single out special devotedness.

Ques. Would keeping the feast make us intelligent?

Rem. Intelligence really works by affection.

J.T. Just so; but you feel, if we are not eating, when we come together to the Lord's supper, it becomes a dead letter to us. It was "as they were eating" in Matthew and Mark.

Ques. You link that up with 1 Corinthians 10?

J.T. Yes.

Rem. A woman first announces the Lord's death: then a woman announces His resurrection.

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OVERCOMING IN GOD, IN CHRIST AND IN THE BELIEVER

Romans 3:4; Luke 11:21, 22; Revelation 12:10, 11

The word "overcome" in these scriptures is important; first as to God, then as to Christ, and then as to the believer. The first scripture refers to God overcoming rebellious sinners by His goodness; He is not yet casting them into the lake of fire, as He will do with the beast and the false prophet, as we read in Revelation 19:20. They have no formal trial, but are taken and cast alive into the lake of fire. They are sons of perdition, and there is no salvation for such. That there are sons of perdition there can be no doubt. Judas is called "the son of perdition", the Lord speaks of him as "perished", John 17:12. There is no salvation for such. Someone here may be saying in his mind, 'While there is life there is hope', but there is no hope at all for sons of perdition, the very name indicates that. They go to their own place. It is said of Judas that he went "to his own place", Acts 1:25; this is a most solemn fact, and the Spirit of God records these things for our serious consideration, not for mere historical reasons, but in order to challenge everyone who reads, as to whether he is facing this matter of salvation, or whether he will possibly come under the heading of a son of perdition.

If the Lord Jesus were to descend from heaven now and take His own away, as He is about to do, these sons of perdition would come to light. It is one of the most dreadful things to ponder upon, that there would be those left for perdition. They will clamour then for salvation, without possibility of their finding it; they will knock at the Lord's door, asking Him to open to them, but He will say from within, without opening the door, yet making His voice heard, "Depart from

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me, all ye workers of iniquity", Luke 13:27. They were sons of perdition before, but then it will be manifest that they are outside the realm of salvation. They may not be just like the beast and the false prophet, who will be cast alive into the lake of fire, but still the lake of fire will be their doom also. Let no one doubt this, whether old or young. There may be persons on earth now, who will never be saved, and it is a challenge to every one of us here. God alone knows who they are. The apostle John tells us that "even now there have come many antichrists", persons of that character, but the antichrist is yet to come; he has not yet appeared, but he is one of the sons of perdition, and as we read, he will "go into destruction", Revelation 17:8.

Then another thing that is very solemn in this respect is the word, "Let him that does unrighteously do unrighteously still; and let the filthy make himself filthy still", Revelation 22:11. That is very solemn; it is a word for persons who think it is optional whether they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, or whether they can take their fling in the world, and then at their own time believe on Him. Nothing is more false than that; for if you are doing unrighteously, God may say to you, 'Keep on at it'. "Let him ... do unrighteously still". There is no hope for you. You may question what I am saying, but read it for yourself in the last chapter of the Bible, where these words are found very significantly; they refer to persons who are just trivial, light-hearted, who think they can do as they like in believing or not. But remember you are having to do with God, and He is not mocked. If you disregard His claims, He may mock you, as it says, "He that dwelleth in the heavens shall laugh, the Lord shall have them in derision", Psalm 2:4. If we think divine things are optional, God may say, 'If that is your mind, things must remain as they are'; for He has a right to say something in this matter, as well as you.

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The apostle Paul, when writing to refractory christians in Corinth, where some among them were false apostles, deceitful workers, not saved people at all, says, "If any be ignorant, let him be ignorant", 1 Corinthians 14:38. God is showing to us that He is not to be mocked; He has to say to us in these things, and if people decide to remain in ignorance of Him and turn their backs on Him, He reserves the right to say, 'It shall be that way!' How terrible it is! So that we are to wake up to these things; we have to do with God, and one of His ways of overcoming is by what He says to us.

The passage in Romans 3 occurs in that section of the epistle which treats of men being convicted of sins and of sin. God goes to great pains to accomplish this. One of His great moral triumphs is to bring men, women and children to repentance. That is the point in the word 'overcome' in verse 4, "that thou ... shouldest overcome". It is quoted from Psalm 51, one of the most important in the whole book of Psalms. David, who wrote it, had been a great sinner, but he had been overcome by God, in the sense that he was brought to acknowledge his sin. God triumphed. King David sinned a great sin; it was deep-dyed sin, a double sin. How Satan jeered, as it were, when he found himself overcoming, for the moment, a great saint. For David was undoubtedly a great saint; he was outstanding in that sense, and yet he was overcome by the devil. Let nobody think himself immune from the devil's machinations. David was a great king, a great saint, a prophet and the sweet psalmist of Israel, and yet he was overcome by the devil. But God had overcome him before, and now He will do it again. David is one of God's chief men, I might say, as convert, as king, as prophet, as saint, and as the sweet psalmist of Israel, and yet Satan overcomes him; but God, who had overcome him before, will do it again. How did He do it? He did it by a prophet. We are living in a time when prophecy is taking a great place, and one is

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hoping it may become more effective; it enters into the preaching of the gospel; the gospel implies prophecy, for according to the prophecy of Joel, the Holy Spirit would come from God, and God says, "Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy", Joel 2:28. It was going to be a great part of the service of God. Why should it be so? Because prophecy brings God to men's consciences; it is one of God's great weapons for overcoming men in a moral sense.

So God sent Nathan to David; he was specially a prophet for David. So great, so important was David in the mind of God, that we might say, God detailed one of His prophets specially to look after him. When he needed him, he was there: he came to David after he had sinned. Why did he not come before? You say, 'Why did he not prevent David from sinning?' The solemn side of it is that God allowed David to sin, and Nathan the prophet came to him and spoke to him about his sin. He was very respectful, for David was a great monarch; he spoke a beautiful parable, which I cannot go over now, but it is one of the most touching of parables, showing how skilful Nathan was. He went over the ground of David's guilt; he portrayed it as though it might be anyone who was guilty, and not David; and David being a monarch, and a righteous man as a king, declared that the guilty person should be put to death. Then Nathan replies, "Thou art the man!" 2 Samuel 12:7. He did not stop at that word, he went over the ground again to bring out the heinous character of the sin, for God loves us too well to hide from us the full bearing of our guilt. Romans 3 is for that purpose; it brings in everybody as "under judgment to God". Everybody, after having had a fair trial, is brought in before the bar of God as guilty, "all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (verse 23).

Verse 4 is quoted from David's great penitential Psalm 51, where it is written, "That thou mayest be

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justified when thou speakest, be clear when thou judgest". Nathan's name is at the head of that psalm, as if God would say, 'Nathan is always present'. The prophetic word is always near. God is not far from any one of us, to bring us to self-judgment, to convict our conscience when guilt happens. He was not far from David. He allows the guilt and then He overcomes the guilty man. He could have destroyed him, but no, He overcame him on moral lines, and if you look at the psalm you will see what David says, "For I acknowledge my transgressions, and my sin is continually before me. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done what is evil in thy sight; that thou mayest be justified when thou speakest" (this is the passage quoted by Paul), "be clear when thou judgest", Psalm 51:3, 4. David is showing thus how God has triumphed. David himself had triumphed in many a battle, he never lost one that we know of; he was always victorious, but now he says, 'God has triumphed'. How, and by what weapon? By a prophetic weapon, that is, by Nathan. Nathan says, "Thou art the man!" God's finger is pointed at David. God is accusing him, He is convicting him.

One may be accused and not convicted; the idea of conviction is that the thing is brought home to my conscience. In legal terms a man is convicted if the jury passes judgment upon him as guilty, but he may not be convicted in his own conscience, whereas the thought in scripture is that the sinner is convicted in his own conscience; he is a guilty man and God effects repentance. It is a moral triumph and God thus secures a great victory. He loves to do it. He has secured a man for Himself. Need I say it is far more to Him than that He should take a man like the antichrist and cast him alive into the lake of fire? Such a man is not secured for God; he is put out of the way; he will not trouble the world again; he will not lead great armies against others. David in Psalm 51 is saying to

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God, 'You have overcome me; I was a rebellious, sinful man for a time, but You have triumphed'; "I acknowledge my transgressions". Maybe there is somebody just like that now, some secret guilt, some wilful course never yet faced, perhaps known only to yourself and to God, not even known to the brethren, for we need not do things that are regarded as criminal to the natural mind to make us sinful.

When king Saul went against the Amalekites, in 1 Samuel 15, he doubtless thought he had done an excellent piece of work; he had slain the Amalekites, he had destroyed them, but he brought their king back alive with the best of the cattle and sheep. He thought he had done well, but the real truth was that he was wilful all the time, and there are people like that among the people of God. They say, 'What have I done?' It is a matter of what you have not done. Samuel says to Saul, "Self-will is as iniquity and idolatry" (verse 23). It is as bad as David's crime, or worse; for nothing of the character of David's sin was attributed to Saul, yet self-will was written on his whole course, and so it may be with some of us here. You may challenge anybody and say, 'What am I doing?' But maybe it is what you are not doing. Maybe your will is at work, and you are refusing to bow, and God is now facing you in order to overcome you as He will. The word says, "That thou ... shouldest overcome when thou art in judgment". Romans 3:4. God is sitting in judgment now in a moral sense. He is not casting men into the lake of fire now. He is doing a very different work, a work which is pleasant to Him. He is overcoming men through their consciences by prophetic means. He is doing it every day, and woe be to the man who holds himself aloof. May the speaker and those who hear face this matter as to whether God is overcoming him. It is a great triumph on God's part to overcome the sinner by leading him to repentance, and it is a great triumph for the sinner, too.

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Think of Job, for instance, one of the best examples of what I am saying. We have a book of forty-two chapters written to show how this matter of God triumphing over one man can come about, Job was a great talker; men who follow their own wills in the things of God are usually of that type; they have plenty to say, but in chapter 31: 40 Job's speeches come to an end. It says, "The words of Job are ended". That is one step in God's triumph. Job says, 'I am going to stop these speeches'. It is not that he did not talk again, but he is speaking of his words. I suppose if you were to consult with a Job of these days, he would call your attention to some of his speeches; they are masterpieces. People are very proud of their ability to speak, and of course naturally it is a great art. But God can speak, and when "the words of Job are ended". He will do so. There is some little headway being made if a brother who is showing his own will in the things of God, or in other ways, is brought to this; for his speeches are sure to vindicate himself, and do it eloquently, with tears, it may be. But when the man says, 'I am not going to say any more', well, there is some headway. The time came when Job's words were ended, but God had not yet overcome him. Elihu has to say to him, and he speaks well, too, but even he does not overcome Job. Then God takes him in hand and says to him, as it were, 'Now Job, you can make a speech, make the best one you can and I will listen to you'. That is God, He will let you turn out all you have on your mind and tell it to Him, "Gird up now thy loins like a man", Job 38:3. He challenges him to do it, but Job did not do so. God is overcoming him. It is not a question exactly of preaching the gospel of His grace, but God speaks to Job and directs his attention to this creature and that creature; pointing out features in this one and that one which He has made. It is not only a matter of what God says, but He comes near and impresses you with Himself so that you

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are affected. Job says, "I will lay mine hand upon my mouth", Job 40:4. God is doing the work. He did it with David, and He is doing it with Job. Maybe He is doing it with somebody at this time. It is not simply the terms of the gospel, the words of it, but it is God Himself doing the work necessary. God comes near, the word of God is living and powerful: it is God Himself, and so Job says, "I will proceed no further", Job 40:5. He had darkened counsel by his words; how much of that we see; someone may try to give counsel to another to encourage him on the right line, but it is met perhaps by a multitude of words which weaken the counsel, so that it is darkened. Job says, 'I am finished with that'. God is about to overcome him, so that Job says finally, "I abhor myself", Job 42:6. He said that to God. Do not let us be afraid to face this matter; let us have done with our arguments and face the thing as it is. Listen to God. You know you are guilty and God knows it, and wants to overcome you. It will be a great triumph for God and great blessing for you when you are brought to repentance. Job became much better off than he had ever been, after God overcame him, he says, "I ... repent", a very real repentance, "in dust and ashes". Well, that is what is meant by this verse. One would challenge one's own self as to how ready one is to really justify God, rather than oneself. "So that thou shouldest be justified in thy words, and shouldest overcome when thou art in judgment".

The apostle goes on to point out that if God does not overcome in this way, how can He judge the world? He must overcome; He must judge the world; He is entitled to do it, and He will yet do it, but He is judging us now, overcoming us through our consciences, and every victory is a triumph for Him and for the repentant sinner, for there is joy in heaven over it. It is God's own work to bring about repentance. He is the blessed God, and He creates happiness, holy happiness above, and also among His people, as He brings about

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repentance in guilty souls. So that we come into repentance when we have the sense that we have sinned, or if we have never believed at all, and there is joy in heaven. "And the Holy Spirit also bears us witness of it ... their sins and their lawlessnesses I will never remember any more", Hebrews 10:15 - 17. That is what is going on every day; God Himself in the Holy Spirit witnessing to you that on account of the death of Jesus, your sins and iniquities will be remembered no more for ever.

Now I turn for a moment to Luke 11, to show how the Lord Jesus overcame Satan. The Lord says in verse 21, "When the strong man armed keeps his own house, his goods are in peace; but when the stronger than he coming upon him overcomes him, he takes away his panoply in which he trusted, and he will divide the spoil". This is a very interesting parable, and in all the annals of war, there is hardly one like it. David foreshadowed it in the valley of Elah in 1 Samuel 17. He was just a type of this parable. The Lord Jesus, a divine Person, never other than "God blessed for ever" (Romans 9:5), yet as Man here, met Satan, the devil, and overcame him. It was the One who was "stronger than he coming upon him". The Lord credits him with having a palace and being armed, but He is stronger than he. Some of you may say, 'The world is a very pleasant place, it is very attractive, I would like to have my fling in it for a while, I would like to roam about this palace of the strong man, for it embraces all the pleasures of this world'. Satan has been a long time in this business. The arts and sciences came in very early, and took hold of Cain and his family, and Satan uses them to build up his world, its music and dancing, its pleasure-halls and theatres. He has been a long time at the business, and he has palaces, and he is armed so as to keep them.

As the Lord Jesus was baptised, the heavens were parted asunder, and the Spirit descended upon Him

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and the voice out of the heavens saluted Him, saying, "Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I have found my delight", and then we are told, "Immediately the Spirit drives him out into the wilderness" to be "tempted by Satan", Mark 1:11 - 13. The Holy Spirit would not drive any of us into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil: we could not stand it. But this One could, and God would display this to the universe. It was there He took away all the armour of the strong man. The devil took the Lord up to a high mountain and said, 'There are all the kingdoms of the world, they are all mine'. Of course he is not concerned about the truth, for he is the father of lies. The Lord said, "He is a liar and its father", John 8:44. He would decoy you by the world's glory; that is a weapon which he has. The Lord took up this conflict single-handed. The whole Roman empire of that day could not do it; neither could all the armies of the world do it today, but Jesus did it alone, He was the Stronger than Satan. Let us, believers, understand that there is "the stronger than he", that is Jesus, and by extension the Stronger is in us, for "Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world", 1 John 4:4. The Lord pictures Himself here in Luke, and says, "When the stronger than he coming upon him overcomes him, he takes away his panoply in which he trusted, and he will divide the spoil". The spoils properly belong to a victor, and Christ is the Victor over the strong man who had held the world in thraldom. In fact we are told that Christ annulled "him who has the might of death, that is, the devil; and might set free all those who through fear of death through the whole of their life were subject to bondage", Hebrews 2:14, 15. Christ has done that. What I am speaking of now is what He did in the wilderness, but He went further than that. He annulled him that had the might of death and delivered us. The expression here, "He will divide the spoil", means that He has secured the saints, that is, those who believe, out of the

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enemy's palace. Is there any man, woman or child who would like to go back into that palace? You are professedly out of it; do not go back! The Holy Spirit is here to keep you from going back; the Spirit is the power by which we are kept out of the world, and the Lord Jesus dividing the spoil means that He has the whole matter under His hand. We read in Hebrews 11:16 of some who went out as seeking "a better, that is, a heavenly; wherefore God is not ashamed of them, to be called their God", and we are told, "for he has prepared for them a city". What touching words are these, and they are intended for all of us who are believers, so that we should not go back, nor return from whence we came out.

Finally, we have the thought in Revelation 12 of the precious blood of Christ, that is the blood of the Lamb, as that by which certain ones overcame the devil. This is one of the most precious thoughts and we should take account of it: "And I heard a great voice in the heaven saying, Now is come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ; for the accuser of our brethren has been cast out, who accused them before our God day and night: and they have overcome him by reason of the blood of the Lamb". This actually has not happened yet, but in applying it to ourselves one thinks of the blood of Jesus who is now in heaven, and as the scripture says, "If any one sin, we have a patron with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous", 1 John 2:1. So if Satan entices you to sin you repent and you get forgiveness, by the blood of the Lamb, through faith, you overcome the devil. The devil comes back again next day, but you say, 'No, not again! I have overcome that sin: the blood of the Lamb is my shelter, I am clear of the effect of that sin, I am not going to yield myself again'. That is the way it works: Jesus Christ is our Advocate up there. If any saint sins, Satan would make the worst of it, he is skilled in it, he omits nothing, and his thought is to

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weaken my conscience, so that I continue in sin, that I do it again and again. But that will not do; the Lord says, 'I am here with the Father for you, an Advocate for you in the best possible place'; so that "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness", 1 John 1:9. He is there "a patron with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous", and "the blood of Jesus Christ his" (i.e. God's) "Son cleanses us from all sin", 1 John 1:7. So that Satan has no advantage over us. He will say to you, 'See what you have done!' Yes, I am grieved over it, but I am not confessing it to Satan, but to God. Do not fail to confess, for if you fail in confessing your sin you are exposing yourself to another onslaught of the wicked one. Confess it at once, for God has the means by Him of settling the whole matter at once. It is confessed sins that are forgiven: "He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness". That is what is going on, and we are defeating the devil in this way, every time; we are overcoming him by the blood of the Lamb.

Then the scripture goes on to say, "And by reason of the word of their testimony", that is their confession; that is another thing that baffles the devil. In the school, the workshop, wherever you are talking to people in this world, say something for Christ, something about the things of God, and you will baffle the devil with that. But if you join in with people and laugh and talk about things in the world, the devil has the advantage over you.

Finally, we read, they "have not loved their life even unto death", that is, you will be reproached. You may suffer bitterly if you pursue that line, but it is victory after victory. They loved not their life unto death. Well, certainly we shall be persecuted, but then we are victorious over the devil. They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they were ready to die if necessary. That is victory!

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"FOLLOW THOU ME"

John 21:22

So said the Lord, the One who so well knew all about Peter, to him. The circumstances attending Peter at this time were of a very solemn nature, not those that occur every day, or to every person, for even he felt them very weighty ones, and by them his heart was impressed. Peter was Peter, and the Lord was the Lord. They loved each other.

Peter's career had not been faultless by any means, but yet his heart loved the Lord. Certainly, his denial of the Lord was not, and ought not, to be taken as a proof of his love; but though he did deny Him, the blessed One knew Peter's heart. The Lord knows the heart, and judges from that, the seat and spring of action. Who but Jesus would have anything more to do with such a man as Peter, a man that had so promised and so failed as he had, in a time when the Lord was in the hands of His enemies? Peter promised very fairly, and, I doubt not, meant to do what he promised as many others have done before and since; but Peter's case was this, he did not know himself; in other words, Peter did not know Peter's heart, nor what he himself would do when the hour came; but there was One who did, and He told Peter so. But there was more than this that the Lord told Peter, "But when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and bring thee where thou dost not desire". The next verse gives the key to these words as they referred to Peter, and then the Lord said unto him, "Follow me". We get this repeated afterwards, because Peter required line upon line, and word upon word. Peter thrice denied Him, and the Lord thrice brought this denial before him; and Luke tells us that then "Peter remembered the word of the Lord". And

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how well is it to remember the word of the Lord; but how far better is it to remember His word, in the true manner and time intended by the Lord. There is a right time to remember the word of the Lord, and there is a time when remembrance is too late. It is well for those who know the Lord to consider this, and keep an open ear and a willing heart for all the Lord's words. When Jesus opened up to Peter what should be when he would become old, Peter spoke to the Lord about him that leaned on His breast at supper, "Lord, and what of this man?". This reference was to John; to which the Lord replied, "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?". Here the Lord was dealing with Peter about himself; but Peter, as was his wont, was occupied with another point, not in entire communion with the Lord. The same is seen in John 13:8, when the Lord desired to wash Peter's feet. The Lord came to Peter to wash his feet, as He did to the other disciples, but Peter objects, and says, "Thou shalt never wash my feet". And we see how prone Peter was to be out of the current of the Lord's thoughts. At another time we hear this blessed One telling him, "But I have prayed for thee". Was this nothing? Had it no voice to Peter? We think otherwise. There was the voice, and there was the word, but where was Peter's ear?

But to return to our point -- that is, the word addressed to Peter. The Lord, in His reply to him, said, "What is that to thee?". Peter's question was far beside the mark; the Lord gave him no quarter. He could not pass by this departure from the point at issue, "What is that to thee?" This was not Peter's business; the Lord would see to that; but the other was the point for Peter. The word to him was, "Follow thou me". This was far better than settling what another disciple was to do. Active Peter, promising Peter, denying Peter, had to be brought to the point by the Lord's imperative command -- "Follow thou me". The Lord delighted in prompt obedience then, as now. A short time before

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this, Peter promised to go anywhere with the Lord, and to bear anything for the Lord, but he did neither the one nor the other; now the Lord commands and demands, and Peter has no choice!

The Lord said, "Follow thou me", which includes and means more than hearing or promising, or being in the crowd behind Jesus as elsewhere. This word "follow" had its own peculiar solemn responsibility. There was a meaning in those three words, a meaning of deep import. We believe that Peter did follow Jesus another day according to the Lord's own meaning and intention.

Now, a few words of application as to the words in general. Even though we may not be in the same circumstances as Peter, there are many opportunities of following the Lord, and, I doubt not, many points in which we do not follow Him, but follow our own minds, or the minds of others; both are wrong, and against the Lord. The Lord's word is, "Follow thou me"; that is certainly not any one else. Why, if we only look at the principle among men, they profess and in a great measure do carry it out. In the present day there is more than ever reason why that word "follow" should be heeded. How attentive the Christian should be in these last days to the word of the Lord! I say the word of the Lord, because that includes more than following. The attentive soul will find that the word includes a great deal, 'What saith the word' is, or should be, the point with the child of God. And if I enquire what saith the word, with a heart's desire to follow it, I shall be relieved from my own poor words, and from yours too, in a great measure.

I have the word for my walk, for my life, for my action before man, for my walk, my life, and my action in the things of the Lord. The Christian is not by any means left to his own choice as to his religious ways. To begin with: if I am a Christian I am not my own, because I belong to the Lord; He bought me,

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paying the price with His blood. Therefore being His, we are not our own, for anything. Body and soul, mind, energies and means all belong to Him. He gave all for us, and we are bound to give all to and for Him. He who belongs to another, which is the case with a Christian, is bound by and ought to be subject to the One who purchased him. This, then, leaves the Christian with no power of choice as to himself; but, by reason of his being Another's property, he is not at liberty to have a will, but with full readiness of heart to carry out his Owner's will.

The word of the Lord is, "Follow thou me". And to whom is this applicable and upon whom is it binding, but upon the Lord's own? Am I, or are you, free to go here or go there, to do this or do that, when we know that such a step is in opposition to the mind of the Lord, the only true and proper authority, or power of action, by the Spirit? If one rightly considers the matter, it speaks for itself. First, it takes the responsibility off my own heart, and calls me to obedience rather than to choice; and the true place is to be looking to the Lord with the constant desire, "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?". Such a breathing of heart, such a place of dependence, is truly ready for the Lord's reply, "Follow thou me". Secondly, it honours the word and Person of the One who commands me; and if there be true love, love according to God; I shall have delight in honouring Him I love. Even in a family among men, what could one expect where each member of that family does only that which is his own will, or that which pleases him best? Surely the whole family must present nothing but a scene of confusion, which throws such a family open to many other inconsistencies and sins against the head of the family, and thus present an opening for the tempter to come in and make sad havoc, and bring dishonour upon that head. Now, it is precisely so in the family of God, and in the church of God. The church of God is not left to itself

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to choose and select what seems best, or appears most expedient to its members; by no means, thank God. His own unerring word does the thing far, far better, and stamps any action of the church with its high authority. The word tells me what a christian is, what his walk should be; and if I want more, it tells me what his walk should not be. It tells me where and when to trust God, and not to put confidence in man. It tells me what things God disapproves and what He approves. It tells how and to what I am to gather, not leaving me like a ship without either compass or chart to navigate the ocean by guess, or to sail with the wind or towards the brightest clouds. Blessed be God, He has provided compass and chart for the full and safe guidance of those who are gathered to the name of the Lord, and, in addition to this, the same precious word has pointed out the exact locality of sunken rocks and opposite currents, so that a wrong course must be either the result of ignorance or wilfulness. There is a remedy for the former, but the latter is sure to bring its own reward some day.

Is it of no importance that the Lord should have so abundantly supplied these needed beacons and cautions for the safety and well-being of those who are His? Has the Holy Spirit so furnished us with these important points of information and instruction for no purpose? Certainly not. God well knew that such days as we have should come to pass, and hence the provision which He has made for His church.

I can conceive the words, at the head of these lines, peculiarly needed in these sad times, if we apply them in a general sense and bearing. I do not wish to deprive them of their due and proper weight in the place where the Holy Spirit has put them; but, I ask, may we not take the full benefit of such words in a general way? We have in verse 19; "Follow me", and in verse 22, "Follow thou me". Doubtless, "follow me" is a weighty call, and let us listen to and obey it; but in verse 22 the

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Lord was thinking of Peter. In this verse it is "Follow thou me", and that gave point to the call. It was more than a general command. It was a command for Peter. It was 'thou' -- Peter. How well the Lord knew Peter's heart, "I have prayed for thee". What blessed care the Lord had over poor Peter, and what sympathy! Look at this word, "I have prayed for thee". The Lord Himself had taken up Peter's case, and placed it before His Father, "I have prayed". Let us ask our own hearts if there are any Peters in these days; any that require prayer. Mark the two points again, "I have prayed for thee", "Follow thou me".

To follow the Lord must incur trial and sorrow. Trial and sorrow it may be from those who ought to be our helpers in these things. Imitation in following the Lord is a very poor thing indeed; in fact, that is not following Him at all. It might be going with them that do follow the Lord; it may be from worldly advantage, or from admiration of him whom I follow, or because it suits me to do so, or because I admire intellectually what is preached or taught; but in each and every instance I am, if these be my only motives, far below the mark, and, therefore, it is not following the Lord.

The presence of trial is not always a proof that a child of God is in the wrong place; it rather favours the contrary conclusion, for the Lord promised that in the world tribulation would be sure for the christian, but then there was another thing also sure and that is that in Him there would be peace. This world is not the christian's place of rest or peace, but the place of conflict, of difficulties, of darts from the enemy's hand. But the Lord said, "Lo, I am with you alway". Is not this a gracious and cheering promise? He is with those who belong to Him here, and they will be with Him for ever in glory; but here it is, "Follow me", and "Follow thou me". He followed us in love until He had made us His own, now we follow Him because we are His.

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And this following of the Lord is not a thing completed in a month or year, or seven years, as a fixed term, but it is the real standing point with the christian; it is a constant following of the Lord in the shower and in the sunshine, in the world and in the church, 'Follow' is a wide word, and the Lord's help is needful for following. It is not a pathway of roses and a cloudless sky, but it is a pathway of real and positive blessing now, and of glory afterwards.

How decided the Lord was with Peter when He asked, "What of this man?". This man was not the point for Peter's consideration, the information sought was nothing to him then; the Lord said, "What is that to thee?". How much this is like our own face in a glass, for certainly it is the character of mind we see at work in these days, seeking to be wise beyond what is written; I say, beyond what is written. There is enough written; let us see to it that we desire to look into that.

Some shrink from knowing and understanding certain portions of God's Word, and this cannot be right. Are we among the number who fear the consequences of knowing various prominent truths, truths that are sure, if followed, to expose him who follows them? For instance, if a child of God sees in the word what the church is, and what is the true place of the Holy Spirit in the church, and what is not the church, and many other truths of vast importance, well, if I see these points clearly, and find that I am not in my true place, I must act either for the Lord or against Him. What is to be done? The word says this and the word says that, but how can these things be carried out? How will this Scripture agree with that, and how will this verse follow that? And what will be the result if we do this, and not do that? How much this puts one in mind of Peter when he said, "What of this man?". Such was Peter, and such are men now; but what saith the Lord? That is the point, not what I or you might say.

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His word is, "Follow me", and to questioning Peter at last it was, "Follow thou me". May our own souls be led onwards by such a word. "Follow thou me" leaves no room for our choice, and truly this is by far the best way. It sets aside all other objects and persons as unworthy of such confidence.

Then, we get a blessed Person to follow. One who is fully worthy of the heart's full trust and confidence. One who was all to God, and will be all to and for us. The following of Jesus incurs great and constant responsibility, yet no risks, but a blessed and certain victory through Him. He has Himself won all the victories, and these He will share with His own by and by, in the day of manifestation, in that day when it will not be actually following the Lord, but the blessed result of having followed Him. Now, it is following Him, and the consequent trial; then, it will be with Him, and the consequent glory!

What a difference between following a principle, or a religion, or even a person, however great and learned, and following the person of the Son of God, the only One whom we can safely follow! In following Him there is a certainty, and that certainty is God's certainty; and there is an amazing difference between following a person and the Lord.

Then there are weighty reasons to be urged for not following any one or any thing, when we have had brought before us such a one as the Lord Jesus, and, added to this, the great truth that He gave Himself for us. Is not this One enough for all our wants and contingencies, for all our need as to divine instruction by the Spirit and our place before God? Enough for the walk of a christian, the standing of a christian, in this evil day, this day of almost universal confession and profession!

Now there are different and various estimates in christendom as to what is following the Lord. I need not go to man or to creeds or dogmas or tradition, or

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to any other quarter for my instructions and direction, but to the one great and always sure and blessed standard, the word of God. There I get all that is needed, whether to deal with my own soul, or with the souls of others. There is the true remedy for all, if my soul will only bow and take what the Lord tells me. What we have to guard against is the spirit of the present day, as the common way now is to cut and shape and pare down the word to suit my peculiar views or opinions -- thus seeking to make God's word speak what I or you may please to think. Surely that looks like a perversion of the truth; and such a spirit so using God's word will do great damage to the simple soul who may listen to language of this kind.

We have a pure word and a full word -- a word really needing no additions of ours. Thousands and tens of thousands have steered by this blessed word, and have entered safely into port. Thousands are happy and safe in steering by it now, thank God! The day is fast coming when it will be seen who have and who have not sought, though feebly, to carry out what the word teaches. And, if following the word be invested with more importance at one time than another, or demands more watchfulness of heart, it is so today; and the only safe and true course is to test everything by that word.

These days very much resemble the last days in Scripture; and we know from the word that many will fall away and will not endure sound doctrine. A vast deal of the preaching of the present day is either intellectual or political, that which pleases the man, that which makes a great deal of man, but little of Jesus.

Just the reverse of this is what the word teaches and lays down as the true state of things. With God the question is, "What think ye of Christ?" And those who belong to Him ought not to have or to seek a different object.

The day of our opportunities for obeying the Lord, and following Him is drawing fast to a close. Signs of

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this are multiplying and widening very fast indeed; and what the child of God is called to is full and positive attention to the word of the Lord, taking it as a light for his pathway, whether of service or suffering.

What can be more comforting and cheering than the promise of His coming to take to Himself all that are His? -- and this will be verily accomplished, according to the counsels of God. Nothing will be omitted or forgotten; nothing that God hath said will be passed by as small and insignificant. No, not one single thing. The very points that we may pass so lightly over are of great value in the mind of God.

Take, for instance, the thought of man as to the condition of man. The word considers man as lost; and the teaching of the present day tells him that, with a little care and attention to the word, and prayer, with a little mercy on God's part, he will be saved by and by. Well, we, by the teaching of the word, know otherwise. We know, not think, that salvation must come through and by the death of the Son of God. Man cannot surely do one thing towards his salvation; he cannot make himself a single whit better, or advance a single inch nearer to God. The words of everlasting truth tell me that man is lost and far away from God; but the voices and pens of divines tell me that man is getting better and better, that by and by God will have mercy upon him. This is not the Scripture way of viewing the case. Let us give heed to the word. The only true and safe course is a constant and entire dependence upon the word of God. Whatever sayings or doings are abroad, or whatever writings teem from the press, if the object of such be not the exaltation of Christ, and for God's glory, then, at once, the christian's way is clear. Give no credence to them. Here comes in our short, but expressive, call of the Lord, "Follow me". And what can be better and safer than following the Lord? What is there, what can there be, in the wide, wide world, comparable to Him? He is Light,

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the Life, the Truth, and the Way. In Him I get all that is needed, all that God gives, richly treasured up, a full and blessed fund for all the exigencies of life. There, there, in Him, the believer may find all! Let us see to it, my fellow-traveller, that we abide in confidence in the Lord.

"Follow thou me", said the Lord to Peter.