Pages 1 to 308, 'Prayer as seen in the Acts of the Apostles' and Other Ministry 1942, Readings at London, Ontario, Winnipeg and Council Bluffs (Volume 211).
Acts 1:14; Acts 1:23 - 26; Acts 2:42 - 47
J.T. It has been thought that by looking into this subject we shall see how the dispensation was introduced and maintained in prayer, in the power of prayer. As seeing the relation of prayer to the various turns the testimony took, we shall perhaps learn how to pray in the present time according to all the changing circumstances, and find relief, and learn perhaps how to pray more. We may learn how to pray, how to expect answers, and how to prepare ourselves for answers; for answers usually take the form of using those who pray.
The first scripture is characteristic, and is the key to the whole position, for it shows the composition of the company at that time, believers, and what authority there was and ability, and how they abode together; also how women had to do with it, for it is said, "These gave themselves all with one accord to continual prayer, with several women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren".
The second passage shows how the difficulty occasioned by the defection of Judas was repaired, how the damage was repaired so that there should be the full administrative principle. Then finally we see how, the Holy Spirit having come in, the assembly itself was inaugurated as we have it now, that is, at least in principle; how prayer was a part of the general features in which the assembly functioned, and how it qualified as the instrument or vessel to be used of the Lord. It is thought these scriptures will suffice for us for this reading.
S.P. Would it be right to say this is the expansion of the Lord Jesus teaching the disciples to pray?
J.T. Just so; it is really the expansion of the gospel of Luke in which the Lord Jesus is seen praying so many times; and in chapter 11:1, one of His disciples seeing Him praying "in a certain place" -- pointing to a local position -- said, "Lord, teach us to pray"(Luke 11:1), which He did. So that we should begin with that thought: prayer began in the Acts with persons who knew how to pray.
J.W.D. Do you think prayer always refers to something specific, or is it the attitude of heart Godward, the idea of prayer continuing?
J.T. The suggestion in verse 14 is the key position.
The need of prayer is always very great, pressure is always great, and it says, "These gave themselves all with one accord to continual prayer". Now in chapter 6 you will remember, in view of deacons being appointed, the twelve said it was not meet that they should leave the word of God and serve tables, and then they said they would give themselves up to prayer and the ministry of the word (Acts 6:4). The ministry of the word is omitted here, it is just prayer: "These gave themselves all with one accord to continual prayer". As yet there is no mention of the word of God, but prayer is always needed; whether we have persons of gift or not, prayer can always be exercised. So they "gave themselves", meaning a definite giving up to that service, or should I say, that exercise in view of pressure. When those of the remnant were restored in the return from Babylon in Zerubbabel's time, as written in the book of Ezra, they first of all set up the altar on its base; instead of beginning to build the temple, which requires the word of God, they just set up the altar on its base because of the enemies in those countries (Ezra 3:3). I think that is the position here. The need is great, the position required
that they give themselves to this feature at the outset.
A.R. Is it because of the fact that on the one hand the Lord had ascended to glory, and on the other hand the Holy Spirit had not yet come?
J.T. Their position was therefore all the more vulnerable. That is what is meant when it speaks of the entire giving of themselves up with one accord to prayer and does not say anything about any other feature of service.
J.S. Do we have the beginning of assembly prayer here in verse 14?
J.T. It is the principle of it, but, of course, the assembly was not yet formed. It is in the second chapter that we have prayer as a formal element in the general assembly position. There, other things are mentioned as well as prayer; here it shows what consciousness of need there was before the Holy Spirit came.
C.A.M. Connecting this in the Acts with the gospel of Luke, would it be right to say all God's operations are in answer to prayer?
J.T. I do not know who prayed for the creation. What do you think about that?
C.A.M. The matter of counsel was prior to everything else, but I mean God's present operations.
J.T. Yes, and even as to eternal life and promise: the idea of promise includes eternal life which involved the expression of need, though very faintly suggested. But as to creation, you cannot say anybody prayed for that; it is a pure matter of sovereignty.
A.N.W. Along with continual prayer, would it appear specific prayers flow from ministry such as Peter's? It opens the way for specific prayer.
J.T. Yes, and specific need which, I suppose, might enter into all our local positions, that the administrative side might be furnished, that there
might be administrative ability, because that is what the numeral twelve has in mind. Damage had occurred, which is very common and humbling, administrative ability fails or is damaged or wanting in some way. That is a specific matter. There were only eleven apostles whereas there should have been twelve. The Lord had gone on according to Matthew; the eleven met Him on the mountain; He did not stop because of the damage. But when we come to Luke, what is needed must be furnished. It is an important matter in our localities to discern what difficulty there may be, what damage may have occurred, so that the administrative side shall not be impaired and that we may go on in some little way representative of God. It requires the idea of twelve to represent God.
J.S. Is that why they returned to Jerusalem from the mount of Olives?
J.T. We must come in and get refitted; if we are damaged we must become subject to repair, have recourse to the Lord about it so that repairs may take place and there may be a representation of God, whether in any of us or in a local company.
H.G.H. Does the thought of continual prayer imply spiritual understanding to know what to pray for?
J.T. I think it would. Allusion has been made to Luke 11 where the Lord is seen praying; it is in relation to a locality. He had just been to Martha's house and she was very naughty; it is a very common thing in our localities; she persecuted the Lord and Mary her sister. The Lord is immediately seen praying and what required that prayer was the state of the locality, or rather, of Martha's house, for the locality is not formally mentioned here but John supplies that side. Luke would say, A pretty hopeless case! John would say, It is not so hopeless. John would make full allowance for the smallest
grain of the work of God in Martha. The Lord felt it very much; and so right on to verse 13 of Luke 11 He enlarges on the idea of prayer and what may accrue from it; the very greatest thing may accrue, the Spirit comes in answer to prayer. What can meet a state like Martha's, a sister so naughty? It was her own house and she formally extended its hospitality but robbed it of all its pleasure by the way she spoke (Luke 10:40). The next chapter is the way of meeting it, and it is by following the Lord's move in prayer. "Teach us to pray", one of the disciples says, "teach us"; the whole position is affected and the whole position must be righted.
S.McC. Is it of note that in the first introduction of the idea of twelve in the scripture it seems to be in regard to prayer? God listened to Rachel and God hearkened to Leah, as if in the mixed relations in the mothers in Genesis 30 the beginnings of the twelve are seen.
J.T. That is a very good allusion. Rachel finally says after Joseph is born, "Jehovah will add to me another son" (Genesis 30:24). That is the completion of the administrative principle, and it encourages us. The women are praying with them here; the motherly side will find an outlet in our prayer meetings.
A.N.W. Say a little more about the women praying with them before assembly order had been set up by Paul.
J.T. "With several women" does not imply the women prayed audibly here, although we do know that Mary the mother of Jesus had spoken in Luke 1 and contributed to the service of God. We do know she could do that and do it well. It is what is called in ecclesiastical terms, the Magnificent, it is given such a status in ecclesiastical places: "My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour",(Luke 1:46) as she went on she covered the ground as Hannah of old. Hannah's composition is called
a prayer but there is not a word of prayer in it. The spirit of prayer must have been behind it. That is what is in mind here, Mary would thoroughly support any prayer that Peter or any of the apostles would offer; her spirit would be with them, especially in the knowledge she had of the Lord Jesus; no one else had such knowledge as she.
S.P. Would the thought of the support of prayer be seen in 2 Kings 19 in the matter of Sennacherib, where the priest and the prophet and the king all enter into the position?
J.T. That is a good example of what may accrue from prayer. Of course it is a special obligation now because of the war and the testimony; but here what the Lord would help us in is to get into the spirit of the company in the upper room. They had come from the mount of Olives and, as has been remarked, names are given of those who were there. We are told how far it was from the mount of Olives to Jerusalem, "a sabbath-day's journey off. And when they were come into the city, they went up to the upper chamber, where were staying both Peter, and John, and James, and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, and Simon the zealot, and Jude the brother of James. These gave themselves", that is, the apostles by themselves first, "these gave themselves all with one accord to continual prayer, with several women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren". The conjunction putting Mary and the Lord's brethren by themselves is to be borne in mind. They are by themselves at the outset with their knowledge of the Lord, that is, any who have special knowledge are by themselves; it is a question of subjective conditions that are there at the beginning. The apostles are the ones that took the lead in this matter of prayer.
J.W.D. What is the difference between this kind of prayer and what we get in Romans 8:26, "For we do not know what we should pray for as is fitting"?
J.T. Romans is an elementary epistle, it does not speak of the formation of the assembly, although it leads to it. It is rather individual formation, so that we readily admit we do not know what we should pray for as we ought. It is suitable to bring that in. It is a good, wholesome thing for each of us just to accept that we are very defective in this matter of prayer. That chapter shows how the Spirit comes in and adds to us so that we should pray as we ought.
S.J.H. Would the getting to the upper chamber help us in knowing what to pray for?
J.T. I think all that preceded this, from Luke's point of view, entered into the upper room. It is a question of what was there on heaven's account, on the Lord's account, and how they acted on instinct; they did the right thing: "These gave themselves all with one accord to continual prayer, with several women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren". These are by themselves, and this last element joined in adds its immense subjective instinct and power to the position.
A.B. In regard to your reference to the base of the altar in Ezra, the eleven are mentioned here, that they gave themselves "with one accord". They are going on happily together; the spirit of dependence is amongst them and the spirit of confidence in God is there in a position that was outwardly hopeless, the Lord having gone and the Spirit not yet having come.
J.T. They are conscious of exposure, for no matter how advanced you are in the truth you are the object of attack. What can you do in prayer? The passage as to the armour of God in Ephesians 6
ends with, "Praying at all seasons, with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching unto this very thing with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints" (Ephesians 6:18). Because you are in the very front of things the enemy is dead against you.
A.R. I suppose Asaph in Psalm 73:17 did not know how to pray until he got into the sanctuary and got the right sense of things.
J.T. Quite so, then he understood their end; he knew how to name things. One of the most important things is the armour of light, the armour of God in Ephesians 6, in order to be able to name things. You know what to say when speaking to God, how to put right names on things.
A.N.W. "Gave themselves" in Acts 1:14 is a strong term, is it not? James adds the word 'fervent' in connection with prayer, which is important.
J.T. Elijah was an example. The Lord Himself was the great Example. That fact enters into the prayer in the upper room; His mother was there to furnish the details so that we might understand Him in prayer. How many times He must have prayed in His mother's house. His father's house! How many times His brethren must have seen Him pray, although not entering into it! No example that He set would fall to the ground. No doubt it would be taken on in time, and His brethren are now nearly right. They had not been so before, but they are now. He dwelt with them, we are told in John 2:12, with His mother and His brethren for a short time. Now they are brought around to be thoroughly with Him and His apostles.
C.N. So that the exigency here is met. There is a breach, Judas has gone to his own place, but now they are praying and the result that follows in the next verses shows that the need is met in this particular way of prayer.
J.T. That is the order of the truth here. The general position requires prayer because we are so exposed, just as the remnant was. We are exposed to the enemies. But here they have recourse to prayer; there they had recourse to the altar. The position has been clearly stated in verse 15, "And in those days Peter, standing up in the midst of the brethren, said, (the crowd of names who were together was about a hundred and twenty,)" -- there is a principle in that: a brother says something in relation to a specific matter, to repair a breach, and that brings in the second prayer.
C.H.H. Would the exercises of Epaphras in Colossians 4:12 meet the matter to which the Colossian saints were exposed: "combating earnestly for you in prayers, to the end that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God"?
J.T. That is what is stated, and I think it corresponds with what we have here. It would lead to Paul's writing to them. No doubt the epistle was the outcome of this prayer of Epaphras, his urgent request as to what was needed at Colosse that they might stand "perfect and complete in all the will of God". They were going on fairly well but they were defective, and the, epistle is to repair the breach; so that the second chapter finds the apostle himself in combat for them. So here the prayer is followed by, "In those days Peter, standing up in the midst of the brethren, said, (the crowd of names who were together was about a hundred and twenty,) Brethren, it was necessary that the scripture should have been fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before, by the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who became guide to those who took Jesus; for he was numbered amongst us, and had received a part in this service. (This man then indeed got a field with the reward of iniquity, and, having fallen down headlong, burst in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. And it was
known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that that field was called in their own dialect Aceldama; that is, field of blood.) For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his homestead become desolate, and let there be no dweller in it; and, Let another take his overseership. It is necessary therefore, that of the men who have assembled with us all the time in which the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day in which he was taken up from us, one of these should be a witness with us of his resurrection". Now the apostle Peter in his address here is bringing in the Lord. What an example Jesus had set in all the time in which He came in and went out, beginning from the baptism of John! What an example the Lord had set in coming in and going out among them! It would enter into this matter. The brother who was to be chosen was to be one of those who are assembly men because he should have full knowledge of the way the Lord had acted; that is the point in Peter's address. It is a clear setting out of the position, which the word of ministry ought to be. The ministry meeting ought to cover local conditions above all, and to seek to furnish light as to how difficulties are to be met. And so they appointed two men who were in full accord with what had been said.
J.S. Does Luke introduce prayer to repair the breach Satan made in the twelve?
J.T. The Lord is the Model, you know. How often did they see Him pray on these occasions in which He came in and went out among them? How did He deal with specific matters? How did He deal with James and John when their mother came to Him and asked for a place for each of them? How did the Lord deal with them? That is the way of getting at the truth. How are we to deal with local matters as they arise? It is "not mine to give",
He said to James and John(Matthew 20:23). He put them right; He just patiently instructed them about the matter. That place was not His to give. It is bringing out the wonderful economy He is inaugurating. It is the Father's matter; we must bear that in mind; these are things that belong to the Father. We must not address our prayers to the Lord if they should be addressed to the Father. We address a far greater percentage of our prayers to the Lord than to the Father. The Lord says to the two, That is the Father's matter. Then the other ten disciples were upset about this; they resented it, and the Lord set them right, too. This is the sort of thing we have to deal with, and the Lord Jesus coming in and going out among them would set the example for them; that is the point, that we may know how to deal with exigencies as they arise.
C.N. So that Peter's word of ministry and the appointment of Matthias are again followed by prayer in this section.
J.T. That is the next thing: "They appointed two, Joseph, who was called Barnabas", evidently a very worthy man, he has a surname; "and Matthias", who has no surname. "And they prayed, and said, Thou Lord, knower of the hearts of all, shew which one of these two thou hast chosen, to receive the lot of this service and apostleship, from which Judas transgressing fell to go to his own place. And they gave lots on them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles". It is a beautiful record in entire keeping with the position, the Holy Spirit having not yet come. The lot is used; it is crude, but it is a crude time; the Holy Spirit has not come yet, but in gracious power they are left to do this themselves. It is what they did and the matter is successful. So it is said he was "numbered" with them, as if he fitted in and was recognised generally as the one.
S.McC. The whole atmosphere seems to breathe a suggestion of unjealous feeling. That is an important thing in this great matter.
J.T. I think it is. James and John brought in jealousy and rivalry. The truth was that it was the Father's matter. Are we putting the Father's matters in the right place? Are we putting the Lord into matters that really belong to the Father?
C.H.H. Would 1 Corinthians 12:5,6, where it speaks of the services connected with the Lord and the operations in connection with God, help at all in prayer?
J.T. It would; 1 Corinthians adjusts this matter of course. "There is one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we for him", 1 Corinthians 8:6. Obviously that is the first great thought in the economy. Ephesians 4:6 enlarges on that, saying, "One God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all", which would mean that that Person in the Godhead is over the universe and all matters of government and providential matters. He is over all these things. And then, "one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him", 1 Corinthians 8:6. Clearly the Father comes first; the Lord's administration is more limited for the moment, until the Father's time arrives when the world will be judged by Him. "He has set a day in which he is going to judge the habitable earth in righteousness by the man whom he has appointed", Acts 17:31.
A.R. Why is it in 1 Corinthians 12:28, that "God has set certain in the assembly: first, apostles", whereas in Ephesians the Lord has "led captivity captive, and has given gifts to men"? Is one the assembly sphere and the other more general?
J.T. God is the more prominent idea in Corinthians: "the assembly of God which is in Corinth", although the Lord has a great place too, because of the question of authority; but the order is, "God,
the Father", and then the Lord Jesus: "God, the Father, of whom all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things", 1 Corinthians 8:6.
A.N.W. This was a specific prayer addressed to the Lord Jesus, I suppose, having in mind that He had Himself chosen the eleven.
J.T. It is a question whether it is or not; or whether it is a question of the continuance of the Old Testament manner of address. In all probability it would be the latter, whilst they would recognise the Lord Jesus by that title of 'Lord' when the Holy Spirit came down: "God has made him, this Jesus whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ", Acts 2:36. I would think it is the Old Testament position, for the lot is still allowed.
J.T.Jr. The Lord's part in this matter being in the confirmation of His appearing to the twelve?
J.T. Very likely. That is in 1 Corinthians 15, and it runs on to the appearings to Paul and to above five hundred brethren at once; it is a question whether it does not take in this session in Acts as well. He appeared to Cephas and to the twelve and then to above five hundred brethren before the Holy Spirit came. It would confirm the selection of Matthias.
J.W.D. Would you say that as to anything about which you can address the Lord Jesus in prayer, you can, in a greater sense, speak to God as Father about it, whether in spiritual or temporal matters?
J.T. It is hard to say; you cannot be too specific as to what should be addressed to the Father because you find some things addressed to Both. Still, I think the economy is in mind in this book and Paul enlarges on it. It requires that we give more place to the Father, whereas as far as I see
more place is given to the Lord in our prayers and thanksgivings, and songs too.
J.W.D. I mean the place the Lord Jesus has in the economy is relative and specific. God as such is the supreme idea.
J.T. Quite so: "over all, and through all, and in us all"; that is, the first circle is narrower -- "one body and one Spirit, as ye have been also called in one hope of your calling"; clearly that is the narrower thought. Then "one Lord, one faith, one baptism", another wider circle; then "one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all"(Ephesians 4:4 - 6), that is the widest and the universal circle and includes everything the Father has to do with.
C.H.H. In John 16:23 the Lord says, "In that day ye shall demand nothing of me: verily, verily, I say to you. Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give you". How far does that go?
J.T. It has to be modified by other things: "And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, this will I do", John 14:13. It is a question of context and the state the saints are in, whether they address the Father or the Lord.
T.W. Is it right to say that only as the Father is addressed are all three of the divine Persons involved in relation to prayer? In speaking to the Lord Jesus the Father is not involved. Is that right?
J.T. I should not say that the Lord Jesus is involved when we are praying to the Father, because the Father is that Person and does not include more than one Person in the Deity. 'God' either includes all three Persons, or is the one Person in the Deity who is in the place of God in the economy.
T.W. I was only thinking of the Spirit's support here and the Lord Jesus' intercession on high in
speaking to the Father, as seen in the type of the golden altar. Perhaps you can help us more. I was thinking of the meeting for prayer on Monday evening. I had the feeling that the Lord Jesus is supporting our interests there and the Holy Spirit here as we speak to the Father.
J.T. That is true; we have access through Him by the one Spirit to the Father, but then we may speak to the Lord directly too, and in doing that we are speaking to one Person, and that one Person takes the second place in the economy.
C.A.M. In speaking to the Father, is it an important fact that the Father commits all judgment to the Son? Is that to be taken into account in connection with various matters that have to do with judgment?
J.T. That one Person, the Father, does not judge any one. If it is a question of judgment He has committed all judgment to the Son, because He is the Son of man. That would mean that it is God's judgment; throughout the Scriptures God judges, but it is not as Father. He judges, but it is as God. That may imply that He uses the Son in a mediatorial sense in judging. The bearing of that would be more future than present, when all judgment will be in the hands of the Son; even the lake of fire will be in His hands. This is the way judgment will be administered then. It is a question of the Father and the Son there, it is not God and the Son, it is the Father. If you bring in God, that may include the other Persons.
C.A.M. I was wondering whether these matters that have to do with administration, and various things that we instinctively connect with the lordship of Christ would be a guide.
J.T. If we keep before us the economy as presented in Matthew 28:19, the Lord's own words are, "Baptising them to the name of the Father,
and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". If we keep that before us we shall be steadied in what we say as to divine Persons. This matter is carried forward into the epistles and especially into Paul's epistles where the thought of the Father is distinctively brought out. There He is formally and officially in the place of Deity, in the place of Godhead, "one God, the Father"; the leading thought is God, but in the Father. Secondly it is "one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him". Now in the second Person, so to speak, it is a mediatorial matter and that involves God in many instances, as in the statement, "by whom also he made the worlds" (Hebrews 1:2). God made the worlds, that involves God, although the Lord Jesus even in the Deity had a mediatorial service there. Mediatorial service does not necessarily require incarnation; "by whom also he made the worlds" was before incarnation. It was God that made the worlds, that is said constantly; still, the actual Person of the Deity that did it was the Son before He came into Manhood, before He became Son.
A.N.W. While God the Father is not said to judge, God will judge this world in righteousness by that Man(Acts 17:31).
J.T. The judgment will all be carried out by the Son, but still it is God's doing.
S.McC. In verse 24 of chapter 1 they prayed and said, "Thou Lord"; what Person do you understand that to refer to?
J.T. It is the Old Testament setting, it is Jehovah that is in mind. Yet you cannot be too specific because they knew the Lord had gone up, but how much did they apprehend of His intercession on high, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come down to tell them? The Holy Spirit comes out from with the Father and He will testify. Their knowledge of heaven was very limited, yet Peter says,
"God has made him, this Jesus whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36). But that was after the Spirit came. If you had asked Peter what he had in mind, what could he have said? Was he speaking to Jehovah? He might have used that name. Luke gives it to us as God would have us read it, so that I would not like to say the Lord Jesus was not in his mind, but I would be disposed to think it was an Old Testament setting.
C.H.H. In Acts 4:26 there is another reference to Jehovah, where they quoted Psalm 2. I suppose they used the word 'Lord' there in relation to Jehovah.
A.N.W. And in Acts 2:20, 21, "Before the great and gloriously appearing day of the Lord come. And it shall be that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"; there it is Jehovah.
J.T. In chapter 4 it is 'master', 'despot', alluding to Jehovah. We have to remember that they were just emerging from Old Testament times. We are in a New Testament setting, and we forget that they were emerging out of the old position into the position of Christianity.
J.T.Jr. In chapter 4 they allude to "thy holy servant Jesus"(Acts 4:27); that confirms what you say, that God was the object of the prayer.
J.T. Jesus is called a 'servant' there, just so.
H.B. It does say, "Lord Jesus" in Acts 1:21. Do you think they had some light as to the position? "All the time in which the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us".
J.T. Quite so, they knew He was the Lord, they constantly referred to Him as the Lord.
A.R. Perhaps the idea of the economy as referred to in baptising to the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is extended. The Lord says much to the Father in Matthew, and
tells them to enter into their chamber and speak to their Father (Matthew 6:6). He would give them an idea of what was in His mind in regard to the economy.
J.T. No doubt Matthew keeps that much to the fore; they were the sons of their Father. But now they are acting of themselves as Jews, or Israelites, yet still as taught of Christ. How far they would speak to Him as ascended is the question. I would say that they still carried on the thought of God in Jehovah or in the name by which the Lord spoke to Him as the Father: "Our Father who art in the heavens". That is how their minds would be set until the Holy Spirit came down. Now we must remember that tidings from heaven for Christians are by the Holy Spirit come down, sent down, too. That shows that He is, so to speak, a Servant of heaven to make known what is in heaven, and one of the prominent things there is what Peter says, that "God has made him, this Jesus ... both Lord and Christ"(Acts 2:36). Before that, in verse 33, he said that "He has poured out this which ye behold and hear".
Now we have seen how the local position is repaired, and this is a very important matter, to see how local damage is repaired. How are we to carry on if something has happened that impairs the position? What is to be done? Are we to let it go at that? We must seek the Lord to bring in what is missing, so that we can go on locally as representative of what is in heaven, because the number twelve has administration in mind as a representation of what is in heaven.
Ques. I was wondering if the Lord Jesus is brought in personally in this way(Acts 1:21) because He had made a personal selection of twelve men. This is His matter in that sense. Satan had made an attack and carried away one.
J.T. It is His matter, but still, as Paul says, "God has set certain in the assembly", 1 Corinthians 12:28.
F.N.W. Before He chose them He gave Himself to prayer.
J.T. Yes, the Lord gave Himself to prayer for a whole night before He selected them. The apostles are not deciding the matter here but are putting it before God. It is on the principle of lot, which is an Old Testament matter. The Holy Spirit has not come down yet, so that the position is pretty much what is was in Old Testament times. This is in a locality where the position has been damaged but where it has been repaired so that we can go on to normal assembly lines; that is what chapter 2 brings out. With the "added" persons it is said that they "persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers". And then we get a general description of the company. There is something there now for a breach has been repaired. There is something that God can recognise and to which He can add. Prayer has a great place in this, not simply specific prayers but the prayer meeting as part of the position.
J.T.Jr. Does a locality need to recognise a failure and repair it before they can go on?
J.T. That is how it stands. If we are to be representative of God there must be this principle of twelve. Unity is stressed; it is "with one accord" in chapter 1:14, so that there might be a representation of God, one of the greatest things.
J.S. Is this in order to establish the assembly on an immutable foundation?
J.T. That is assumed. This second chapter stresses the point, the Spirit come down from heaven would be there so that the assembly down here should respond to the light and grace of heaven. The point in these verses is to show how
the "added" ones fall in with what was there; the whole company is now described, that "they persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers. And fear was upon every soul, and many wonders and signs took place through the apostles' means. And all that believed were together, and had all things common, and sold their possessions and substance, and distributed them to all, according as any one might have need. And every day, being constantly in the temple with one accord, and breaking bread in the house, they received their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God, and having favour with all the people; and the Lord added to the assembly daily those that were to be saved", Acts 2:42 - 47. That is the assembly position as it is from Pentecost to the present time. Paul's ministry has added to that, but this is the great general position. One of the features is the department of prayer; it is a regular fixture, a regular institution attached to this position -- prayer.
R.W.S. Has a point of need been reached in the testimony requiring intensification of our week-ends, Saturday meetings and the Lord's day, and then the prayer meeting on Monday and the ministry meeting on Tuesday?
J.T. I think that is the outline. We were noticing recently that while we are in the end of broken times there is something discernible of the original structure. I think we saw that in Ezra the old men were concerned about the original structure of Solomon's house; they were weeping about it because it had gone. The others were rejoicing in the foundations of the new structure. The new would be smaller perhaps, although it has peculiar dimensions, but it is not just what Solomon's structure was. I think that is the thing to keep in mind, the weeping and rejoicing mingled(Ezra 3:12,13). They are not contradictory of
each other, each has its place. The new structure would carry some clear idea of the old structure and that is what Philadelphia means; you can see the outline of the old structure in what the Lord says of Philadelphia.
A.R. I think I can see more clearly the value of what was done in the days of Ezra, the twelve men that were selected to go up to Jerusalem to build the house. Before you have the building you must have the repairing of the administrative idea.
J.T. Yes; I think the Spirit of God keeps a clear outline of what there had been. Ezra does not give you the twelve names, but in Nehemiah you get the twelve names of those with whom the others came up. The idea of twelve is carried through, we ought to look for that in a locality. It is not a literal matter, not twelve men in any locality, but the principle of unity in love; thus the Lord is free to use whom He will and we shall not be in each other's way; therefore there is a representation of God.
C.H.H. Would that be seen in Acts 13:3? Would that be anticipating this or is it the extension of this, selecting those to serve? They prayed and laid their hands on certain ones who should serve.
J.T. That is right. We shall see an instance of it later in the choosing of the deacons, and in the form in which Paul and Barnabas set out the general thought. The administrative principle is carried through.
A.R. The last scripture you read is the idea of continuing what has been organised.
J.T. That is what it is, an organisation in a holy sense. You cannot have an organism according to God without love, not only love in each of us, but love amongst us. Love has authority. Love prohibits certain things, if in us, and amongst us; it is not only in one brother but love is amongst us; so the sisters,
too, will say about any decision, That is right. Love never fails. The idea of twelve is the manipulation of love; love operates easily through that number. The sisters come into it, too; they make inquiry and support what is right if love is amongst us, not only in the brothers but in the sisters too, love in the meeting. It is "love amongst yourselves",(John 13:35), the thing is there.
C.N. Would it be right to say the repairing of the breach in the light of the whole assembly would correspond to the idea of the twelve?
J.T. That is the thought. You never lose sight of the idea of twelve running through this book: the laying on of hands in prayer, Jerusalem sending down the apostles to Samaria and Barnabas to Antioch are all on this basis. The Lord is said to have appeared to the twelve and then to all the apostles, the twelve being the manipulative side of the matter, the manipulation of love, and the apostles being authoritative individually. The Lord would confirm us in both these features.
A.N.W. Persevering in prayers in chapter 2 would be somewhat different from chapter 1, continuing in prayer?
J.T. I think so; they persevered in the breaking of bread and prayers, meaning there would be opposition. These men were interfering with the seat of Moses, threatening to upset the whole matter. The devil is right against that, so the word 'persevered' is there.
A.N.W. The idea of prayer is in the plural in chapter 2; each prayer is distinctive, specific, separate.
J.T. It is a question of what is set up publicly; instead of Jerusalem, instead of the temple, a state of things is set up which suitably preceded the teaching of the apostles. Those added committed themselves
to the breaking of bread and prayers; that is the public position of Christianity as over against Judaism.
S.McC. So that the teaching and fellowship of the apostles are like banks and channels in which the prayers move. Our prayers are governed by the light that is in the teaching and what is connected with the authority of the apostles.
J.T. Yes, like the banks of a river; all the brethren are going on within certain bounds. The teaching of the apostles is over against the teaching of the high priests; that is really what is here; it is the complete setting aside of the whole system. In the meantime the brethren are going on patiently and going to the temple; a new system has been introduced and one of the outstanding features is prayer, and the temple was where prayer was wont to be made. But the next chapter is the 'hour' of it, when "Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, which is the ninth hour".
C.H.H. Would the principle of repair be seen in 1 Kings 18:30? It says Elijah "repaired the altar of Jehovah which was broken down. And Elijah took twelve stones" and prayed and got an answer.
C.T. Would 'teaching' coming first suggest that we should be intelligent in our prayers?
J.T. Yes, you should get the doctrine first. Doctrine is like the banks of a river within which love operates.
A.R. The Lord says "Hades' gates shall not prevail against"(Matthew 16:18) the assembly, showing the impregnability of it; and the feature of prayer is preservative of it. They prayed for the deliverance of Peter.
J.T. We shall see how this matter of prayer opens up. They were unbelieving prayers when Peter was in prison; the brethren did not quite believe they would be answered, but still they carried on. What
comes into this position is patience in their going still to the temple, because God was very patient with the Jews. We ought to be patient now with the profession, not to be too radical, but hold to the truth patiently, considerately, not cause people to turn away from it unnecessarily. The disciples went to the temple because God was still going on with it, still bearing with Israel, and spared ones were being taken care of in this new system, as much as to say to the Jews, This is better than what you now have. What care was extended to believers (many christians, not yet called Christians) amongst the disciples! In the assembly the care was much greater than that extended through the Jewish system. Three thousand people were converted at once and added to something very profitable; the Jewish system never afforded such care to individuals. So that it says, "Fear was upon every soul, and many wonders and signs took place through the apostles' means. And all that believed were together, and had all things common". There was great liberality and great love amongst them. The temple did not afford anything like this! For instance, the Lord had said, "This poor widow has cast in more than all", Mark 12:43. This fact is stated in the gospels; the Lord stood over against the treasury and saw this widow. Presently the temple was to be thrown down; that system was not great enough for her offering, but this system is great enough, so it says that "all that believed were together, and had all things common, and sold their possessions and substance, and distributed them to all, according as anyone might have need". There had never been a system like this before nor ever will be again, the system introduced in Christianity marked by the sacrifice that love would make for its objects. The temple could not afford anything like this! That is how God is moving on to bring out something that is greater than anything
around us. "And every day, being constantly in the temple with one accord, and breaking bread in the house, they received their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God, and having favour with all the people". We should note their discrimination as to the breaking of bread in the house, because it expressly belongs to the new system. "And the Lord added to the assembly daily those that were to be saved". The Jewish system did not afford anything like this.
S.P. Is the breaking of bread necessary for the nourishment of their affections in this new system?
J.T. That is the idea. They do not break bread in the court of the temple or in Solomon's porch, it is in their houses, showing they had discriminating knowledge as to what should be done. Going into the temple shows the longsuffering of God, but the peculiar thing that belongs to Christianity must be treasured in its own place.
J.S. Would you say their houses would be clean places to break bread?
J.T. Well, their houses would be houses of converted people.
S.McC. That word of yours as to patience is much needed today because God seems to be in a peculiar way putting us in touch with His work which has perhaps been hindered in development through wrong teaching and other things. You feel that we need that specially today.
J.T. It is an important thing to get that side in mind, not to be too drastic with people. You want to deliver such as should be saved. There are many of the Lord's people and you must not be too drastic with them.
J.S. Do you regard chapters 1 and 2 as transitional?
J.T. Yes, Judaism was still there.
J.T. In general, what characterises this section is persecution. Chapter 4 shows how persecution was met in the assembly. Persecution would have the effect of dislocation; prayer restores the position, puts it in balance, and there is evidence of progress in the knowledge of the truth, and money is laid at the apostles' feet.
Now as if the need of authority, administrative authority, is evident in regard of money matters, it seems in reverting to chapter 2 as if the Lord would help us to see more clearly the position of the assembly as set up as the house of prayer. We spoke of the temple being a house of prayer for all nations, and perhaps we need to see a little more clearly this feature which marked the saints at the beginning, as a public institution.
The end of chapter 2 shows what was set up publicly, prayer being the leading thought, and the truth there should enter into and govern our stated meetings for prayer. Chapter 16 notes specifically, "And on the sabbath day we went outside the gate by the river, where it was the custom for prayer to be"(Acts 16:13). It enters into our week-ends, what comes in on the first day of the week and then runs on to the end of Monday, where we may say the anointed vessel, the assembly, stands as marked by prayer.
The first day of the week involves the assembly in its fulness of dignity and ornamentation seen as saints assembled, as Luke says in Acts 20:7, "We being assembled to break bread". The position is that of the saints as assembled, and the Lord comes
to us. He does not come with us as at some meetings: at a meeting like this He comes with us and leaves with us. According to Ezekiel the assembly is viewed as an ornament, anointed, "so also is the Christ", 1 Corinthians 12:12. As the assembly is seen on the first day of the week, "we being assembled to break bread", the Lord comes to that and leaves according to His pleasure; but on Monday He brings in the feature of prayer, which stands in relation to the whole system. There are many who deliberately neglect the meeting for prayer, as if it were secondary, especially sisters because they are perhaps tired on Monday; but it is striking, as we had this morning, that there were several women and Mary the mother of Jesus who "gave themselves ... to continual prayer" (Acts 1:14); their prayers went on. At Philippi, too, the prayers were going on amongst sisters, at least amongst women. So that it would seem as if the Lord might help us to see the full dignity of the anointed vessel that God has set up here for a testimony, in which there are departments all standing as one, a great system which, as we said, can be alluded to: "So also is the Christ". Also the promise as to the house of prayer is to be valued, "Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer ... for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all the peoples", Isaiah 56:7.
S.McC. As to the dignity of the anointed vessel, we often think of it in contrast to what is around, in relation, for instance, to the meeting for ministry or the reading of the Scriptures or the preaching; but the dignity of the anointed vessel is seen as well in our approach to God in the prayer meeting, over against what obtains around us. The difference in the manner of approach is obvious.
J.T. "Having therefore, brethren, boldness for entering into the holy of holies by the blood of
Jesus, the new and living way which he has dedicated for us through the veil, that is, his flesh, and having a great priest over the house of God, let us approach with a true heart, in full assurance of faith, sprinkled as to our hearts from a wicked conscience and washed as to our body with pure water", Hebrews 10:19 - 22. We are to draw near in the house and that involves prayer. I think perhaps we ought to learn a little more about the dignity of the position as seen at the end of chapter 2, "And they persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers"(Acts 2:42).
C.H.H. Would that system which you speak of as being set up have a great influence with heaven? For instance, it says in Revelation 8:1 - 5, "And when it opened the seventh seal, there was silence in the heaven about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and much incense was given to him, that he might give efficacy to the prayers of all saints at the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense went up with the prayers of the saints, out of the hand of the angel before God. And the angel took the censer, and filled it from the fire of the altar, and cast it on the earth: and there were voices, and thunders and lightnings, and an earthquake".
J.T. There it is clearly the case of the vengeance of God as the answer to the prayers of all saints made efficacious at the golden altar.
-- .W. Would you enlarge on the reference to the prince coming in and going out by himself in Ezekiel?
J.T. The prince has access at certain times by himself to worship, but then at other times, as illustrated in Ezekiel 46:10, the prince comes in with the people and goes out with the people. It is clear
the Lord comes in by Himself at certain times, as it says, "He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me; but he that loves me shall be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will manifest myself to him", John 14:21. Having said, "I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you", (verse 18). He then proceeds to speak about His own coming and the Father's coming. He does not there allude to coming in with us and going out with us, but coming after we are together and possibly going out before we go out. Peter says, "All the time in which the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us". Acts 1:21. Well, that might have been when they were already gathered or when they came in. Anyway, He comes into the assembly on the first day of the week after we have come together: "we being assembled to break bread" (Acts 20:7) opens the way for Him to come. "I am coming to you", He says. At other meetings, such as a meeting for prayer, I would think He comes when we come and leaves when we leave. In meetings like this the same is true; we count on the Lord being with us. It is not just a question of what we are doing, it is what He supports us in; and so He comes with us as we come in.
A.N.W. "For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them". Matthew 18:20. Is that primarily for prayer or care or administration?
J.T. It might be all. Matthew does not speak of the Lord's ascension, the last word in Matthew is, "And behold, I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age" (chapter 28:20); so that in that sense He comes with us.
A.N.W. It would not be the Supper.
J.T. Not necessarily; it certainly could not be the supper in the ordinary sense of the word because He comes to us then as assembled.
C.T. You said in coming to the reading meeting He comes with us and meets with us, taking His place with us?
J.T. He does, to support us. I suppose we should expect Him at a meeting like this, out of sight but supporting us. He may be here, not visibly but spiritually, I mean. Luke could say He was there in some mysterious way, because he says, "He himself stood in their midst" (Luke 24:36), without saying He came. John says, "Jesus came and stood in the midst", John 20:19. John is more formal and contemplates that we are already together before He comes; He comes to us as together.
A.R. Do you think there has been a tendency with us to lower the standard of the prayer meeting? One has felt affected in soul almost as much at the end of the prayer meeting as after the Supper or morning meeting.
J.T. I think it is because God has promised to make us happy in His house of prayer (Isaiah 56:7), not because I am praying, but that the Lord specially gives us to realise it is a gain to come; there is real gain attached to it.
A.R. If we realised that, there would be fewer absentees on Monday night.
J.T. I think there would be; it is belittled in that way, some deliberately staying away that could come.
J.S. Does Matthew contemplate more the assembly's public position?
J.T. I think so. The assembly was to take the place of the temple gradually, as we had this morning, because for a time they continued to go to the temple; but ultimately it came to pass that the assembly took the place of the temple. It is a great thing to have it in our minds even though we might not see the outcome. What we get in the early chapters of the Acts helps us to see how it would work
out now; we can find that the various meetings were held in these chapters if we look at them carefully: the meeting for the reading of the Scriptures, the meeting for the breaking of bread, meetings for prayer and meetings for gospel services. It is to bring out the greatness of the anointed vessel and the features attaching to it, among them prayer.
S.J.H. Why is the ninth hour called the hour of prayer?
J.T. That is a very important enquiry. Why should it be mentioned if it is not that these two men are moving in the spirit and atmosphere of prayer? As a matter of fact, a few weeks earlier the Lord Jesus had been on the cross at that time, the ninth hour. Now Peter and John are evidently in the atmosphere and power of prayer, hence the greatness and the quality of their service; but not only the quality of the service but also the quality of the servants. They could say, "Look on us", and that entered into the atmosphere of prayer. So I think our preachings have been somewhat augmented by prayer in the houses of the saints preceding the preaching on Sunday evenings. Preachers go forth in an atmosphere of prayer; there is something to look at, something to hear, prayer governing it.
H.G.H. Is the suggestion here that we come to the prayer meeting with the sense of the dignity of the position in which we are? The apostle could say, "Silver and gold I have not; but what I have, this give I to thee: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazaraean rise up and walk", Acts 3:6.
J.T. That is what I thought we might see. The hour of prayer, that particular hour, is mentioned; would not Peter and John be sensible that it was a time of prayer? Is it accidental or is it of God that these two men moved together? "And Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, which is the ninth hour", Acts 3:1. The
word 'together' is the central thought here as linked up with the assembly; that governs their movements. The footnote says, "Some omit 'to the assembly', in chapter 2:47, and link 'together' with the end of chapter 2. Probably we should read 'the Lord added together daily such as should be saved. And Peter (or Now Peter) and John went up into the temple'". The word 'together' might thus be used in connection with the assembly; that is the position, and prayer enters into that position. Are Peter and John as on the way up involved in that prayer, or is the word 'together' to show they are thoroughly of one mind, also carrying with it the thought of the hour of prayer? For it is that hour, the hour governs the prayer. Here the prayer also is developing, the prayer in the temple. The point here is the connection between the quality of the persons and their movements, the quality of the service rendered and its results -- all the effects of prayer. In our service and in our public position there is to be quality, quality that can be seen as of God.
C.A.M. When you refer to the death of the Lord Jesus on the cross, the ninth hour was when the darkness was over all, was it not? The hours are especially recorded in Luke's gospel. That really gives a sort of spiritual timepiece.
J.T. The ninth hour is surely not mentioned for nothing by Luke here. John mentions things in days and hours too. Here it is Luke and he is occupied with the public position, the ornament of the earth, the anointed vessel, and what these two men were as a public testimony going up together at that hour.
H.B. Is the representation of the thought of a gate with them, do you think?
J.T. There might be: they would represent the gates of Zion as over against the Beautiful gate of the temple. The temple was about to be superseded; what was there was being superseded, not arbitrarily
but by quality. Quality came, taking its own place; it cannot be denied; if quality is there it is there, and that is what comes out.
C.N. What would you say about this man being carried at the same hour?
J.T. "And Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, which is the ninth hour; and a certain man who was lame from his mother's womb was being carried, whom they placed every day at the gate of the temple called Beautiful, to ask alms of those who were going into the temple; who, seeing Peter and John about to enter into the temple, asked to receive alms. And Peter, looking steadfastly upon him with John, said, Look on us", Acts 3:1 - 4. The position is very clearly defined, carrying is mentioned just then because that makes his condition more evident.
S.P. Has this man a local aspect?
J.T. I think it is rather that he stands in relation to the old system, and Peter and John stand in relation to the new; whilst the old system is not arbitrarily set aside, the quality in the two men itself supersedes the old system. We have already alluded to what the Lord said of the woman in Luke 21"He saw also a certain poor widow casting therein two mites. And he said. Verily I say unto you, that this poor widow has cast in more than all" (verses 2, 3). That referred to the quality of the giving, what was behind it, how heaven regarded it. What was behind these two men is what they were, that is the point, "Look on us". The Lord was inviting people to look at that widow, and immediately He spoke of the temple being displaced: "And as some spoke of the temple, that it was adorned with goodly stones and consecrated offerings, he said, As to these things which ye are beholding, days are coming in which there shall not be left stone upon stone which shall not be thrown down", Luke 21:5, 6. The
woman is too great for that building, she needs a greater structure and we see that here. If we could only see the greatness of what we are connected with! It is an anointed vessel that God has set up here and prayer is a part of it.
J.S. Does He regard the widow as a counterpart of Himself in self-sacrificing love?
-- .W. In Acts 10:3 it refers to the ninth hour again, Cornelius sees an angel coming to him at that hour.
J.T. There is a link there, I am sure. It is well to keep the idea of an hour in our minds. We have an hour for prayer, and there is going to be something for us if we just take up our position in relation to the vessel, the institution that has superseded the temple.
R.W.S. What is the right attitude in which to come to the prayer meeting? Is it as burdened, or with exercises that come as in the meeting for prayer?
J.T. We have exercises, of course, burdens, but we come in the light of promise.
C.T. Do we also come together as really together? Peter and John were of one mind.
J.T. The word 'together' governs their movements, having the light of promise, the great element of promise. We have the first commandment with a promise attached to it in regard to young people, which I am afraid they little value: "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is just. Honour thy father and thy mother, which is the first commandment with a promise, that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest be long-lived on the earth", Ephesians 6:1 - 3. Now we have a promise attached to the house of prayer, and God honours His promises. So while the burdens are there we give expression to them; we place them before the
golden altar, and there is a promise that we shall be made glad. How much we need it on the Monday! After the blessing of the first day of the week Monday is likely to bring in depression and so the promise at the prayer meeting ought to be valued.
R.W.S. Some fresh feature comes in; is that to be expected?
J.T. The position is so great, it is a reflex of what is in heaven. Think of all the wonderful things that were going on in heaven all the time on the apostolic level! There were things coming out all the time at these meetings in the Acts, especially apostolic power. You notice the increase of apostolic power in the prayers at the end of chapters 2 and 4. God would have down here all that is in heaven.
S.McC. In Isaiah 56:6, 7 it reads, "Also the sons of the alien, that join themselves to Jehovah, to minister unto him and to love the name of Jehovah, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from profaning it, and holdeth fast to my covenant; even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt-offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar: for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all the peoples". The thought of joyfulness entering into this matter is important over against what you were referring to as perhaps depressing.
J.T. That is what I was thinking, the promise surely is worth something; God honours it if we look for it. What I observe is the frequency of these three-day meetings such as we are having now, and some shorter. They are increasing and they do not seem to be decreasing in power. The fact is they are increasing in power. It is a day of small things, very small, of course, but the frequency of the meetings does not decrease the power. The power increases as we are ready for it, there is plenty of it;
that is what you get here in these chapters, the great development of power in the meetings as the brethren came together, especially apostolic power.
A.N.W. Does the persevering in the teaching and fellowship apply equally to prayer? "And they persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers", Acts 2:42. Some of us seem to be definitely deficient in the last.
J.T. That is what is in mind. The brethren might have weakened; they have weakened to a certain extent as to ministry meetings and the like, and a little encouragement ought to incite more of us to give God opportunity, because He is ready to meet us if we afford Him opportunity.
W.L. Peter and John do not wait until they are at extremity before they go to the prayer meeting.
J.T. No, they go up in liberty and power, as if that is what is suitable at that moment.
W.L. They go as having something.
J.T. Clearly this stands in relation to the position at the end of chapter 2, so it is what you might call heaven's best. It is a matter of heaven as over against what there is at the Beautiful gate of the temple. "Look on us", they say; they are displacing the gate of the temple.
A.B. In principle are Peter and John the pillars, the antitype really?
J.T. You mean Jachin and Boaz, that is the idea. "And he set up the pillars for the porch of the temple; and he set up the right pillar, and called its name Jachin; and he set up the left pillar, and called its name Boaz", 1 Kings 7:21.
A.B. Meaning 'He will establish', and 'in Him is strength'.
A.R. When the queen of Sheba came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon
she was impressed with the dignity of the men that stood before him and she said. They are happy. I was wondering if Matthew brings forward Christ and the Acts bring forward His men.
J.T. That is what is here. God is setting out what has been brought in at Jerusalem; not arbitrarily setting aside the temple, but the Lord had said, after the widow cast in her mite, "Days are coming in which there shall not be left stone upon stone which shall not be thrown down", Luke 21:6. Well, now we see it here; this is the beginning of the thing. The end of chapter 2 shows what a vessel the assembly was, what was going on there. Now these two men move out to the temple; not a word is said as to whether they were directed to do so or whether the brethren were in it; it is just to bring out what they were. One man says nothing; Peter is first; that is the divine thought, that Peter is first, and John is second. He does not say anything but he is there and Peter says, "Look on us", the two.
Ques. Could you link on Matthew 18:19 with it? "Again I say to you, that if two of you shall agree on the earth concerning any matter, whatsoever it may be that they shall ask, it shall come to them from my Father who is in the heavens". There is the idea of two agreeing and the result.
J.T. That would be the idea, "two of you", that is, two of the assembly. These are two of the assembly par excellence, they are the outstanding two. The man that is healed is healed completely and he is seen right through these two chapters, 3 and 4. He is completely well: "And, by faith in his name, his name has made this man strong whom ye behold and know; and the faith which is by him has given him this complete soundness in the presence of you all", Peter says (Acts 3:16).
J.R.H. Does this walking and leaping and praising God show the joyful spirit you refer to?
J.T. Quite so, he is brought into the current of things. Peter says of him, "And, by faith in his name, his name has made this man strong whom ye behold and know; and the faith which is by him has given him this complete soundness in the presence of you all". "By faith in his name", that is the name of Jesus. Now you notice the word 'faith' in that verse: I think we shall see it is a question of the dispensation of faith, that dispensation had begun. Peter stresses that it is "by faith"; 'by' -- the preposition is rather 'on': "And, by faith in his name, his name has made this man strong whom ye behold and know". But notice it is "by faith". Where is the faith? In those two men! It is the dispensation of faith that is in mind; Peter is explaining it. "And by faith in his name, his name has made this man strong whom ye behold and know; and the faith which is by him has given him this complete soundness in the presence of you all". That is the dispensation of faith, it is a public matter.
The Lord had said about the man in John 9:3, "Neither has this man sinned nor his parents, but that the works of God should be manifested in him". It is what is public. The dispensation of faith is public, it is "in faith". This man is an outstanding testimony to His power: "By faith in his name", it is the Name that has done the work. That is, Christ is brought in: He is the Inaugurator of faith; it is by Him. He inaugurated the dispensation of faith; it is what the dispensation is, and the persecution would set that aside. Hence the prayer we have in chapter 4 establishes the matter and it is even augmented by prayer.
J.S. Do Peter and John exceed the temple here? God has moved out from the house and power now is in the new system.
J.T. I think that is the idea. The Beautiful gate would mean something very attractive to the natural eye, but Peter and John are displacing that. The man would never refer to that again; the Beautiful gate of the temple meant nothing now to him: he held Peter and John; he is now part of the new system. He has not only benefited by it but as brought into it he is made completely well; there is completeness in the cure.
S.J.H. Does the thought of definiteness come in, that we should be more definite in our prayers? "And Peter, looking stedfastly upon him with John, said, Look on us", as if taking in the whole position.
J.T. Quite so; the man is completely absorbed now with these two men: he is holding them. The dispensation is there; it increases. He is agile so the opposers could do nothing against the matter. Here is the man healed so in chapter 4 they let the apostles go.
W.L. Would this matter of faith be an exercise to us as being at the prayer meeting?
J.T. Surely; there is the prayer of faith, that is another matter. We pray, but God does the work; but the Spirit of God says sometimes the prayer does the work: "The prayer of faith shall heal the sick", James 5:15. You say, God healed, but the prayer of faith healed. Who was praying for the universe when God was making it? There is no evidence that anyone was, it was God's creative power that brought it into being. But here it is something that God is stressing, the prayer of faith can do it. God can do it and does do it, but it is the prayer of faith that is stressed. Peter says, "The faith which is by him has given him this complete soundness in the presence of you all". It is the faith that is by Him. By whom? By Christ, He is the Inaugurator of faith, the Author and Completer of faith. He has brought
this thing in and He wants to see it working every day. It is operating in this universe, it does things, it made this man well.
C.H.H. Does this imply that the man himself had faith?
J.T. It would, as Paul says, "on the principle of faith, to faith" (Romans 1:17); faith in Peter and John and faith in the man.
C.H.H. The apostle saw that the impotent man in Lystra had faith to be healed (Acts 14:9).
J.T. Quite so, that is a continuation of this subject.
A.R. The Inaugurator of the system is not present; the only thing this man can look at is two men.
J.T. The Inaugurator of faith is Christ, the Leader and Completer of faith. Well, this faith is operating now in Peter and John, but it is this faith which is by Christ. Where did it come from? It came from Christ; faith is the gift of God. The Lord brought the thing in Himself. He has used it in the moral universe and it is going to be continued; we want to have it, it does things.
A.R. I was wondering regarding the Lord's mediatorial service; these men are really carrying on the same idea, a mediatorial work.
J.T. They are; it is a mediatorial system. Peter is saying. It is not faith in us. The faith is really working by them, but it is faith in Jesus that does it.
C.H.H. It says in Romans 10:17, "So faith then is by a report, but the report by God's word". Does it mean as Peter speaks that God would give the man faith to be healed?
J.T. That is likely. It does not imply there was anything in him until Peter speaks to him: "And Peter, looking stedfastly upon him with John, said, Look on us. And he gave heed to them, expecting to receive something from them. But Peter said, Silver and gold I have not; but what I have, this give I to thee: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazaraean
rise up and walk. And having taken hold of him by the right hand he raised him up, and immediately his feet and ankle bones were made strong". Acts 3:4 - 7. It is clear that faith, like a current, entered into the man. "So faith then is by a report, but the report by God's word". Peter had spoken something that had the character of God's word. It is "On the principle of faith, to faith", Peter had faith here but Christ brought it in. Christ inaugurated it; now it is operating in these two men. Peter spoke to him and took his right hand, assisting him in the action. Faith is operating in the system, it is operating in this moral system that he came into.
J. How do we take people by the right hand today?
J.T. Give them every opportunity to come into the truth. Use great care in the way you speak to people.
J.P. How does the book of James fit into the matter of faith and prayer? "Is any sick among you? let him call to him the elders of the assembly, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith shall heal the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up" (James 5:14,15).
J.T. That is a good passage for showing how the system is operating. "Let him call to him the elders of the assembly, and let them pray over him". Let him do it, meaning that he is interested in this matter. If he says. There is such a thing as faith, and calls for the elders of the assembly, it would bring out what the assembly is and what is seen in it. It is the prayer of faith that does it. You say, It is God that does it, but the Spirit says the prayer of faith does it. Then they anoint with oil; it is what is going on in the system. The question is whether we are able to take up that position and see what is operating.
C.N. So in Luke 17:6 we see, "If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye had said to this sycamine tree, Be thou rooted up, and be thou planted in the sea, and it would have obeyed you".
J.T. These are illustrations. We are now in an extraordinary situation in this world. What bearing has our position here below on this matter? Can faith do anything? Is not this system that God has brought in and set up here going to have influence? Is it a mere negative? Well, I think what we are speaking of ought to stir us up in this matter of prayer, and prayer in relation to the system that God has set up.
F.N.W. In connection with James, if there is a difficulty within a household, is it more suitable for those in the house to ask the brethren to come and pray, or should the brethren in the locality take the initiative and go and pray in the household?
J.T. That passage clearly puts the initiative on the man; he calls the elders of the assembly.
J.W.D. You were speaking about the system of faith. We have a certain measure of light as to God's ways of government in controlling things in the interests of the assembly, and we are to pray intelligently in that setting as well as other settings.
J.T. I think that is the way it works out. Our prayer meetings are helpful, therefore, from a divine standpoint; they ought to have great influence at the present time in connection with what is going on. We are able to give reasons to God. I think God is waiting for adequate reasons as to our demands in prayer; we are to become intelligent, to have on the armour of light and name things and bring our conclusions to God. He will listen to our reasons.
J.W.D. As to the present situation, the war and things like that, do you think we should introduce matters of that kind into our prayer meetings?
J.T. We ought to bring our reasons to God as we see in various prayers that we have recorded. Take this one in chapter 4: "And having been let go, they came to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said to them" (verse 23). That is a public matter, what the chief priests and elders said was public; they report that. "And they, having heard it, lifted up their voice with one accord to God, and said. Lord, thou art the God who made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that is in them" (verse 24). We have been speaking of how far on they were. I think as we proceed in this book we shall see they are getting more and more away from the Jewish setting, but still it is in view here, and they quote the words of David: "Who hast said by the mouth of thy servant David, Why have the nations raged haughtily and the peoples meditated vain things? The kings of the earth were there, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord and against his Christ. For in truth against thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou hadst anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the nations, and peoples of Israel, have been gathered together in this city to do whatever thy hand and thy counsel had determined before should come to pass" (verses 25 - 28). Peter and John bring in the report to the company as to what had been said to them. It is quite true that the movement of persecution was directly against the Christians, the disciples, but that does not alter what we are saying as to what is applicable. What is going on now is not directly against the saints of God, but it is indirectly against them, as we know. Why not have the facts in our souls as they bear on the testimony and advance our cause before God! He will listen. He is waiting for these very things. So here He deals with the nations, with the public authorities, and it goes on
to say, "And now, Lord, look upon their threatenings, and give to thy bondmen with all boldness to speak thy word, in that thou stretchest out thy hand to heal, and that signs and wonders take place through the name of thy holy servant Jesus" (verses 29, 30). It seems to me that this is the crucial part of the prayer: it is what they actually want from -God. They do not want any retribution, they are concerned about the dispensation, that it should not be marred by what is happening or by what has happened but that it should stand; and that is of prime importance, I believe. Our attitude, walk and ways should not in any way detract from the dispensation; let it stand. In spite of the storm that is raging let us maintain the dispensation. Do good to help people, not taking men's lives.
H.B. We are not to ask the Lord, as Elijah did, for fire to come down from heaven.
J.T. "And now. Lord, look upon their threatenings, and give to thy bondmen with all boldness to speak thy word, in that thou stretchest out thy hand to heal, and that signs and wonders take place through the name of thy holy servant Jesus". That is the maintenance of the dispensation. We say to the authorities that we cannot take life because the Lord Jesus did not take life; He came not to destroy men's lives but to save them. The taking of life physically will come in later when the Lord comes out of heaven as a warrior. The point now is to follow Him. Our dispensation is outside of these things. The Lord said, "My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, my servants had fought that I might not be delivered up to the Jews; but now my kingdom is not from hence", John 18:36.
S.P. It is the principle of the dispensation of healing.
J.T. That is the principle, we are seeking to help people.
A.R. You said last night in prayer referring to the warring nations, that we do not ask for the millennium, we ask for peace.
J.T. Quite so, that is the thing. If it be according to the will of God may He do it. He is ready to listen to our reasons for these things; they give good reasons here. Then they ask God to help them to heal people, to maintain the dispensation.
Ques. Should not our reasons always have the glory of God in mind?
J.T. Quite so. He is ready to listen to them at the prayer meeting.
C.H.H. Would it be right to come to a judgment about things and then refer it to God? It is not that you would ask for retribution, but you have a proper basis for prayer; you come to a judgment. In Revelation 18:20, it says, "God has judged your judgment upon her".
J.T. Yes, we have a judgment and God will judge it in time. But as regards authority, the nations, politics and leaders, we are concerned knowing that God can use any of them to bring this thing to an end. Give God your reasons. So Paul on the ship, when the storm was lying heavily on them, says, referring to the sailors, "Unless these abide in the ship ye cannot be saved". Acts 27:31. Where are the sailors today? I want to know who the sailors are because God can use them to save me; I want to pray for them that they may be available for the Lord to use.
J.R.H. All this would show the importance of the knowledge of the will of God as operating in any matter we may pray for.
J.T. "Let us put on the armour of light" (Romans 13:12); then you can name things.
A.N.W. "I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings be made for all men; for kings and all that are in dignity, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all piety and gravity", 1 Timothy 2:1,2. Does that cover all your requests for things?
J.T. We are to pray for kings and all in authority, so that we are wide in our outlook; but especially we pray for peace, that the Lord's people might have peace.
A.H.P. The moral virtue of the ninth hour is carried through in the dispensation, as seen in this man praising and in the service of the apostles.
J.T. The man here is outstanding and they want other men to be outstanding. "In that thou stretchest out thy hand to heal, and that signs and wonders take place through the name of thy holy servant Jesus": that is the character of the dispensation.
F.N.W. Daniel in his prayer in chapter 9 indicates this line (Daniel 9) He has light as to the position, the seventy years, then he feels the failure of himself and the people, and then he asks God to come in for the Lord's sake. He does not seek retribution or the punitive governmental dealings of God.
J.T. That is a good scripture to bring in because in his prayer Daniel gives good reasons. Before he began to pray he knew the prophetic word. Those of us who have followed up the truth in any little way know more than the leaders of the nations. The prophetic word indicates what is about to come, and if we are aware of anything in the prophetic word that bears on the moment, let us tell it to God. He likes to hear it; He is waiting to hear about it. So that the answer to Daniel is, "Seventy weeks are apportioned out upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to close the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make expiation for iniquity, and to bring in the righteousness of the ages, and to seal
the vision and prophet, and to anoint the holy of holies" (verse 24). God is thinking about our matters.
R.W.S. If external circumstances seem to indicate that it is not God's will to change things, and the saints pray, do I understand God may repent in answer to the prayer?
J.T. Yes, the prayer of faith. Daniel's prayer was answered. Of course it synchronised with divine counsels, but then God can change His mind. We have many examples of God changing His mind, in that sense, because of prayer.
H.B. Does Amos give an illustration of that? "Then said I, O Lord Jehovah, cease, I beseech thee! How shall Jacob arise? for he is small. Jehovah repented for this: This also shall not be, said the Lord Jehovah", Amos 7:5, 6.
J.T. Very good. It is our matter; God says to Daniel, It is your matter and you are a man greatly beloved. It is a question of what God thinks of us, whether we are making ourselves interesting to God, whether we are entitled to ask Him to do things for us. If we are, He will do them.
Ques. Does Hezekiah's prayer fit in here, spreading out the whole matter in detail? "And now, Jehovah our God, I beseech thee, save us out of his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou, Jehovah, art God, thou only", 2 Kings 19:19.
J.T. The Assyrians were turned back. The Scriptures are full of this matter, full of evidence of God answering the prayers of His people.
A.N.W. He gives way to importunity. The poor widow in Luke 18 was importunate. "And shall not God at all avenge his elect, who cry to him day and night, and he bears long as to them?"
A.R. In the sixth chapter of Revelation it says, "Do not injure the oil and the wine" (Revelation 6:6). In chapter 7 John says, "And after this I saw four
angels standing upon the four corners of the earth, holding fast the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow upon the earth, nor upon the sea, nor upon any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrising, having the seal of the living God; and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it had been given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying. Hurt not the earth, nor the sea, nor the trees, until we shall have sealed the bondmen of our God upon their foreheads" (Revelation 7:1 - 3). Would that be like holding up His government?
J.T. Just so; and the souls under the altar say, "How long, O sovereign Ruler, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell upon the earth?" Revelation 6:10. They are heard; God listened to them. White robes are given to them and they are asked to wait a little, showing that God is able to meet your desires. These are persons held in high regard; they had suffered, they are under the altar.
So here it says, "And when they had prayed, the place in which they were assembled shook, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and spoke the word of God with boldness", Acts 4:31. That shows that their meeting room was interesting to heaven, the place was shaken, showing how God takes account of the meeting rooms where we assemble. It brings out what is interesting to God. He regards us as He says to Daniel, "O Daniel, man greatly beloved", Daniel 10:11. A man like that would get things.
J.T.Jr. Would you say there is a general order in connection with a prayer meeting? "And having been let go, they came to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said to them. And they, having heard it, lifted up their voice with one accord to God". We have let go the affairs of business, and then as together we
give out any information of interest so that we are enlightened and able to lift up one voice to God.
J.T. So reading letters from brethren who are evidently helped of God is helpful in a prayer meeting. Peter and John, having been let go, report what happened. Then the prayers, and even the meeting room, are interesting. I think God is concerned and interested as to suitable meeting rooms for His people where we can assemble suitably. Here the place was affected. So later on in chapter 16, we have, "And on the sabbath day we went outside the gate by the river, where it was the custom for prayer to be" (Acts 16:13). A very striking thing to me in this passage, as evidence of God's interest, is the movement of the building. There is no likelihood of its falling, it is just a loving shake, but God says, I am interested in what you are saying. Then it says, "They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and spoke the word of God with boldness" (verse 31). That is what they had wanted and asked for.
C.M. What would be the difference between being filled with the Holy Spirit in this verse, and the incident in the second chapter, verse 4, where they were filled with the Holy Spirit and there was no prayer in connection with it? In this verse here they are praying.
J.T. I think what is stated of them at the incoming of the Spirit meant they were suitable vessels for the Spirit to come to. Being filled would indicate there was room for Him in them. In the fourth chapter I think it was to readjust the position after persecution, because of its severity. Take what has happened in the British Isles, the deranging of positions and circumstances, the destruction of meeting rooms and the like: a chapter like this brings out how God readjusts matters so that the situation goes on as it had done before. So here "they were all filled with the Holy Spirit", and then they spoke -- one mark
of His presence; "And the heart and soul of the multitude of those that had believed were one", another mark, which is also mentioned in chapter 2; "and not one said that anything of what he possessed was his own, but all things were common to them" (Acts 4:31,32). That is, the whole matter was reinstated, only with this advance, that the apostles come into greater power. The money is brought to them and laid at their feet, which is not mentioned in chapter 2. There was evidently progress in that respect because money matters are always difficult, and the apostles were able to shelter the position in that respect.
C.A.M. So that which could not be shaken remained.
J.T. Quite so, they remain, the saints were not shaken; they were readjusted and set up again in increased power.
S.P. This all comes under definite supervision.
J.T. That is what I thought. The outcome of opposition and persecution is this prayer in chapter 4.
S.P. Solomon, at the end of his prayer in 2 Chronicles 6:40, speaks of Jehovah having His eyes open and His ears attentive, looking on as well as hearing what was going on among the saints.
H.B. Peter says, "For in truth against thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou hadst anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the nations, and peoples of Israel, have been gathered together in this city to do whatever thy hand and thy counsel had determined before should come to pass", Acts 4:27, 28. Why should that be mentioned, do you think?
J.T. That would enter into any of our localities; "gathered together in this city", that was Jerusalem, of course, that was where they were praying. It is imperative in any locality that we pray about what happens in the city. We mention the things that happen and God might help us in relation to them.
A.R. If God shakes something and it does not fall, we may be sure it will never fall. I was thinking of what has happened in the British Isles.
J.T. I think it has brought out what is there of God, so that we are encouraged to go on. Another thing that comes out here besides this matter of money is how a man acted who had property. He was a Levite but he was not governed by the levitical law; he was living in the country. His property should have been in the city, but he was adjusted too; the whole dispensation was brought around. He is a true Levite now, one who had not been true. This is a general adjustment that comes out here.
J.S. Do you regard Barnabas as being recovered on moral lines?
J.T. He had already been surnamed; he is ennobled, surnamed by the apostles. Now his name is being mentioned for the first time in connection with this matter of money.
C.H.H. Is the thought of giving a great feature of the assembly as Paul presents it?
J.T. I would say that it is remarkable the place it has in the two epistles to Corinth. But here we have a remarkable man, that is Barnabas, and he comes in in connection with this matter of money. It is a matter God is helping us in, perhaps increasing the liberality of the brethren, but it must come under apostolic authority now; it is not left loosely. Money is an important matter because it is likely to give the devil an opportunity in promoting selfishness. So I think that is why the apostles' feet are mentioned here, not in chapter 2, but here. There the matter is left open: "And all that believed were together, and had all things common, and sold their possessions and substance, and distributed them to all, according as any one might have need", Acts 2:44,45. But now it is put at the apostles' feet, that is, it is regulated by apostolic authority.
C.T. Is the thought of doing good in mind in giving this money?
J.T. That is the point, but let it be properly regulated.
S.P. How are you looking at apostolic authority today?
J.T. It is a question of what it is in relation to. We have apostolic teaching and apostolic authority now; hence 1 Corinthians 14:37 says, "If any one thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him recognise the things that I write to you, that it is the Lord's commandment". What Paul wrote was the Lord's commandment, that is where it comes in. Money should be regulated as it comes in amongst us, that the devil may not tempt us as he did Ananias and Sapphira in chapter 5. How the devil gets in and brings in pride in relation to it!
C.A.M. In Corinthians Paul spoke about it relative to his movements and the movements of the saints.
J.T. Yes, he said he would not carry it himself; he would have others sent by the assembly to carry it (1 Corinthians 16:3).
J.T.Jr. We have a contrast with the beginning of the chapter, where you have a beggar asking for money; at the end you have the apostles' feet and plenty of money.
J.T. What a beggarly thing it was to be sitting there asking for money! These great men, heaven's best, come into view and this man thinks nothing more of them than what they may give him in the way of money. Peter says, "Silver and gold I have not; but what I have, this give I to thee"; the chapter brings out what is of heaven. But the end of chapter 4 shows that money has its place, even amongst the brethren; though it must be under apostolic authority, otherwise the enemy would take advantage of it. The end of the next chapter and
beginning of chapter 5 show how apostolic authority met the money situation and exposed Ananias and Sapphira in their selfishness.
C.H.H. Would you say apostolic teaching corresponds with the apostles' feet?
J.T. That is the idea, the teaching of the apostles still carries authority now.
Acts 6:1 - 8; Acts 7:54 - 60; Acts 8:14 - 17
J.T. It was pointed out yesterday in relation to prayer in chapter 4 that the apostles were increasing in power; instead of their power diminishing, it was increasing. They had asked for this, and it says, "And when they had prayed, the place in which they were assembled shook, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and spoke the word of God with boldness" (verse 31). Then we are told, "With great power did the apostles give witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all" (verse 33). Following on this we have an allusion to apostolic administrative authority extending to many: "as many as were owners of lands or houses, selling them, brought the price of what was sold and laid it at the feet of the apostles; and distribution was made to each according as any one might have need" (verses 34, 35). This would be evidently a development by experience; it was better that there should be direct specific administrative authority for it than that it should be left open in the sense of having all things in common. Following on this we have Barnabas laying money at the apostles' feet, as one who had represented a great accession to the position; it is said that he "being possessed of land, having sold it, brought the money and laid it at the feet of the apostles" (verse 37)(Acts 4:31,37). He had been surnamed Barnabas by the apostles, showing there was steady development and increase.
Chapter 5 enlarges on this feature, after the death of Ananias and Sapphira, in connection with this matter of money. It is said, "And great fear came
upon all the assembly, and upon all who heard these things. And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders done among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch, but of the rest durst no man join them, but the people magnified them; and believers were more than ever added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women); so that they brought out the sick into the streets and put them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter, when he came, might overshadow some one of them. And the multitude also of the cities round about came together to Jerusalem, bringing sick persons and persons beset by unclean spirits, who were all healed" (Acts 5:11,16). This is the acme of the apostles' increased power in the book. It stands related to prayer, the prayer mentioned in chapter 4, so that what God had instituted, the power of the anointing, made great headway and afforded great representations of divine power. God's witness to Christianity. It seems to me that this is a matter that should be kept in our minds; however small things may be, let us have the idea of the ornament, the anointed vessel, in connection with which God is operating, and how it is developed in power in connection with prayer.
Now in chapter 6 we have a breakdown. "But in those days, the disciples multiplying in number, there arose a murmuring of the Hellenists against the Hebrews because their widows were overlooked in the daily ministration" (verse 1). It would look as if the administration of money was failing, but in any case there was the spirit of complaint which is a bad sign; it is met by prayer and then by the appointment of the seven deacons. Following on this there is the provisional position in relation to the Jews, in relation to Jerusalem, gradually ebbing and ceasing as we shall see in the next section, chapters 9, 10 and 11.
J.S. What would be the great spiritual import in the recovery of the Levite seen in Barnabas?
J.T. It shows that true levitical service was taking form. Barnabas is an outstanding, true levite, not any more a typical levite, but a true levite, a true servant of God. Following upon him is Stephen, and then Philip who also represents the levitical order in Christianity in addition to the twelve. In connection with prayer these three men come in.
C.H.H. Would it be an evidence of the grace of the anointing that five of these men selected in chapter 6 have Greek names?
J.T. Yes, it would be; I think grace entered into it because the Grecians, the Hellenists, were the complainers; that is the indication of grace operative in an emergency, that you consider the persons who are involved. If they are complainers, why are they complaining? Is there sectional feeling arising? Well, if there is, meet it, so that it will be overcome. Apparently it was overcome; it looks as if it was a sectional matter.
J.R.H. You have stressed the importance of apostolic authority. Would the attitude of these levites you have mentioned in regard of apostolic authority be applicable today?
J.T. It links on with the apostles having to do with these three men; of course, with the seven deacons, but particularly with these three who develop into great servants, not in serving tables but in spiritual service. Barnabas is knighted, so to speak, by the twelve, and surnamed "Son of consolation"(Acts 4:36); Stephen and Philip each purchased to himself a good degree; that is, they did not need to be knighted, they are great enough without that; they purchased to themselves a good degree. Sometimes you see men avoiding titles; they are greater than the title, greater than any title would make them.
That is what comes out here; development is on these lines. A man is what he is, a title does not add to him.
J.S. Do you have recovery of what is priestly, of the priesthood in principle, in Stephen?
J.T. Well, he purchased to himself a good degree and great boldness in the faith (1 Timothy 3:13). He does serve as a priest in praying, that is the point we are making in regard of him; his face was seen "as the face of an angel". That is, he is beginning to reflect the heavenly which is now breaking forth on the scene.
H.G.H. What is the thought behind the division of service? In the first scripture we read, do we not all have part in this service of prayer? But in chapter 6 there are those set aside for the administering of the money, so that the apostles could give themselves to prayer. Do we not all have part in the service of prayer?
J.T. We do, but I think there are details here that have to be observed. The money was being laid at the apostles' feet. Rome has made a great point of acquiring money and making a public show with it. Now the twelve speak, and "having called the multitude of the disciples to them, said, It is not right that we, leaving the word of God, should serve tables" (verse 2). That is, the money no doubt would have increased and would have occupied the time of the apostles, of the twelve, to the detriment of the spiritual service that was committed to them. They were not called to be deacons; they were gifted men, every one of them, although Paul who had more gift than any of them did serve as a deacon, meaning he would do anything; he never implied that he had too much to do, he never did, and yet he served "more than they all". There is a certain amount of wisdom here: they say, so to speak, We see that this money matter which has come to our feet is
causing complaint in regard of the distribution to the needy ones, and it is giving occasion to sectional feeling. The devil was in that, the door was being opened to the devil; wherever you get a party spirit or sectional feeling, the devil is in it. The twelve closed that breach; so far so good. The twelve called the multitude of the disciples to them and said, "It is not right that we, leaving the word of God, should serve tables". They probably thought it would result that they would have more to do with tables than with the administration of the heavenly things which were committed to them; hence this additional department was opened up which proved a great success, because not only was the attack nullified, but these three men became outstanding spiritual servants, almost linking on with the apostles. It was a development out of themselves, not by appointment, but a question of what one may be as the work of God operates in him, purchasing to himself a good degree and great boldness in the faith.
J.R.H. The relation of these three men with the apostles is very interesting. Should it not help in all those who seek to serve the saints to be subject to authority as to it?
J.T. We cannot get along without the apostles; apostolic authority is the outstanding initial feature of the position, meaning the representation of Christ in authority, so that all that comes out in this section is subject to them.
A.N.W. The reciprocation here is good: the apostles ask the brethren to choose, and the brethren make the choice and place the men before the apostles.
J.T. The multitude is brought into it, too. It is not a democratic affair, but it is wise, because the saints were being divided. Well, let the saints have a voice, let them speak. So the word was, "Look
out therefore, brethren, from among yourselves seven men, well reported of, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we will establish over this business". That is to say, it is still an apostolic matter, only the brethren are brought into it, which is sometimes necessary; it is sometimes well to give the brethren a voice, to let them speak, especially when there is cleavage and sectional feeling.
J.S. What do you understand by "leaving the word of God"? What is involved?
J.T. It is negatively mentioned here; they are not going to do it. It would never do to give up a commission from the Lord to preach and teach in order to serve tables. This arrangement places the money in its right setting in the hands of seven deacons. It is still right to keep the idea before us.
C.A.M. You made reference in connection with purchasing a good degree to the fact that these men were subject to the light of heaven. Would you think that in this part of the book the light of heaven is coming into such men as these, so as to bring about a greater correspondence with heaven?
J.T. That is, the seed sown by the twelve is working well. It is bearing fruit outside of their own number, because they have nothing more to say to Stephen or Philip. Barnabas they have to say to, because he was a Jerusalem man and they sent him to Antioch. These two men, Stephen and Philip, are a new point of departure; the heavenly view comes into evidence in Stephen's face. God is going to make room for Paul, make room for the ministry. We shall soon have Paul in the picture; he is already here as an antagonist, a young man who held the clothes of the persecutors of Stephen.
C.A. That is a very remarkable thing; it seems to be making room for the light above the brightness of the sun that is going to come in.
J.T. That is right, we are going to get heavenly light.
A.N.W. The link between Stephen and Paul is very striking.
C.H.H. Is there a similarity between this extension and the additional seventy which are added to the system in Moses' day?
J.T. That is the sort of thing. Then, too, the seventy palm trees were symbolic. These numerals help us; the seventy palm trees and the twelve springs of water would point to this position in which God is operating. Now although the apostles had to do with the seven deacons and laid their hands on them, yet they developed beyond the immediate control of the apostles, like the seventy in Luke 10:1 "Now after these things the Lord appointed seventy others also". There are twelve in Luke 9 and seventy in Luke 10; that means a great enlargement. It is the same thing here with the seven deacons; the principle is here only; it is a division of seventy, but it is the same idea as in Luke; they go forward beyond the apostles, that is, God is going to spread out, making room for Paul. Peter comes hi again, to open the door to the gentiles so that the heavenly matter may be developed: "God would make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the nations, which is Christ in you the hope of glory", Colossians 1:27.
C.H.H. Would it help us locally to have this extension in mind? The apostles laid their hands on them, they committed themselves to the seven.
J.T. Yes. In the young brothers coming on the spirit of rivalry is apt to come up. It is a selfish thing which will come up unless we are cautious. The apostles here act very wisely: "Look out, therefore, brethren, from among yourselves seven men, well reported of, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we will establish over this business: but we
will give ourselves up to prayer and the ministry of the word. And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas, a proselyte of Antioch, whom they set before the apostles; and, having prayed, they laid their hands on them". These young men can never say, We are outgrowing the apostles, for Peter and the others can say, We prayed for you and laid our hands on you. There is not a young man whom the Lord is using today who has not been prayed for before he is able to walk in the path of service. If a young man is taken up, he cannot say, I am getting on by myself; he has his roots in the elder brethren. If things are normal that is where his roots are. Here they prayed for them and laid their hands on them. What impressions would be received by the laying on of the apostles' hands! Paul speaks to Timotheus of "the gift of God which is in thee by the putting on of my hands", 2 Timothy 1:6. In one sense none of these men could be equal to the twelve; even Paul in a certain sense was not equal to them. He made himself more useful to heaven, but as to his official position he is not in the foundation of the heavenly city. God, of course, stabilises everything; what He has inaugurated stands, like the earth that is standing for ever.
A.N.W. We want to understand the idea of the twelve better. Paul may be wonderful, but he is not one of the twelve.
J.T. That is how it stands in 1 Corinthians 15:5: "that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to above five hundred brethren at once". Cephas is first; Peter failed and the Lord appeared first to him in grace. The next item is the twelve, viewed in their love capacity. The word 'twelve' denotes the love capacity. Later He appeared
to all of the apostles, it does not say the twelve; it is all of them, that is authority, but in love's capacity they come in after Cephas. The Lord has much more pleasure in appearing to us in love's capacity than in authority.
J.R.H. There are many services carried on among us in a local way, such as announcements, and care of various matters arranged among the brethren. Would these qualifications required here apply to such?
J.T. I think the facts as to these seven men are recorded as they are to help us in diaconal work. It is not just any one who can serve; it is to be a person full of the Holy Spirit. And then the outstanding one gets a paragraph by himself: "And Stephen, full of grace and power, wrought wonders and great signs among the people". So these are not just ordinary men, not ordinary believers: they are full of the Holy Spirit.
J.T.Jr. There is the idea of manhood, men, seven men; and then you have Stephen, a man full of the Holy Spirit.
J.T. Yes, seven men, although women might serve as deaconesses too; Paul enlarges on that thought elsewhere. They may serve in the same capacity, but here it is seven men.
A.N.W. It is very striking the word the Lord used when He said, "The Son of man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many", Matthew 20:28. Is that diaconal service?
J.R.H. This matter of being well reported of would cover the moral side.
J.T. People taking on these services -- you may call them offices in a certain way -- ought to be qualified in some sense according to the state of these men.
S.P. Does this divine arrangement completely cover this sectional disturbance amongst these brethren and hold it under control so that it does not raise its head again?
J.T. I think it is important to have our eyes open for any breach like that, so that the enemy should not have access to us. The wisdom of the apostles is to be noted here, "Look out therefore, brethren, from among yourselves seven men". The greater number are Hellenists, Stephen is one of them. When they looked into the matter a lot of people would come into their minds. It would look as if the Lord helped them in general, as if the multitude got help from the Lord to make a choice; they did not allow personal feeling to come in, the greater number of the local brethren chose Hellenists.
S.P. It was not men naturally capable of handling money who were chosen, not men who were good accountants.
J.T. No, "full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom".
W.L. Would that suggest that the spiritual must dominate the material?
J.T. That is the idea. I think the spiritual predominated anyway, in spite of the feeling that had arisen among the Greeks, because the choice they made was spiritual.
R.W.S. Casting lots is out of place now, is it not?
J.T. You do not get that here. The apostles evidently accepted the choice of the multitude. The matter is settled, not only by the twelve, but by the multitude with the twelve. The twelve accepted the choice of the multitude.
A.R. The apostles had a right to decide for themselves who was to do the work, but bringing in the brethren helps in unity.
J.T. I think they did that in effect, laying their hands on those chosen and praying for them.
C.H.H. There seem to be great results from that, "A great crowd of the priests obeyed the faith" (verse 7). Would that be the effect of breaking down the religious system around us?
J.T. Just so, "A great crowd of the priests obeyed the faith". The work of God is going on, that is the point, but going on in connection with prayer, because it is said of the apostles that "having prayed, they laid their hands on them". We are not told what they prayed as in chapter 4. They may have prayed at length; all may have prayed, we do not know; but the point is that they prayed, and that is to show the place prayer has in all this.
J.S. Is verse 8 confirmatory of their actions?
J.T. It shows that Stephen is outstanding. We get no more of this matter in detail, but what we do get is chapter 7, one of the most wonderful chapters, that a man taken up in this lowly service should serve so wonderfully.
C.T. It seems here that after prayer increase takes place: "They laid their hands on them. And the word of God increased". Is that the outcome of prayer?
J.T. That is the setting; it is to bring out the place prayer has in the dispensation. We are not told what they prayed in their prayer, but the point is they prayed. Who knows how much they prayed? It is an important matter; every one of the apostles may have prayed at a particular time. Then you get increase of the word of God: "And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples in Jerusalem was very greatly multiplied, and a great crowd of the priests obeyed the faith". The Spirit of God has put these things together to remind us of the importance of prayer, and the prayer meeting should not be neglected. There are things that follow on it; we always expect things to happen on the Tuesday and Wednesday, and right through the
week. This is the order of things that where prayer is made there is increase. The Lord spent a whole night in prayer before He selected the twelve. These twelve are praying before this selection of seven is confirmed. This results in increase of the word of God, then increase in praise, and then the priests, the most difficult soil, yield. That is all in connection with prayer.
J.R.H. Would it be right to connect this prayer in verse 6 with the note in verse 2, 'pleasing to God'? It was not merely a matter of pleasing the apostles, though they may have been pleased with the choice of the multitude, but their prayer would bring in pleasure to God.
J.T. Yes, it brings in God, that is the idea. God is affected by prayer. Why does He not carry on without prayer? These are the facts we have to learn, what prayer is in the system.
J.W.D. The hour of prayer should be the summing up of what we pray for every day in connection with the divine system operating.
J.T. I always feel that in the morning when the brethren are going forth to business the family reading and prayer afford great power in the soul. The question is how much of that there is in the mornings. We have the morning and evening lamb in the types, they balance each other; the day is filled out with the morning reading and with what comes in in the evening. The whole day is filled out without loss if the morning and evening lamb are of equal value. The dispensation is maintained throughout the day.
S.J.H. Is there anything today corresponding with this action, "whom they set before the apostles"? In a care meeting we seek wisdom to select someone for a service and make some decision as far as we can. Is there anything beyond that? Is being "set before the apostles" confirmation and power?
J.T. The elder brethren's experience has a certain weight in the assembly, experience with God; "In the multitude of counsellors there is safety", Proverbs 11:14. But authority properly is vested in the assembly. Care meetings can make no definite decisions; they may perhaps arrive at certain things but the authority is vested in the assembly, and that involves the twelve, the authority of the apostles' teaching.
S.J.H. So anything we arrive at in the care meeting should be set before the assembly?
J.T. The Lord is there in the care meeting. We do not have to bring everything before the assembly, or else there would be too much to attend to. We have a suggestion here, "It is not right that we, leaving the word of God, should serve tables". There are details of things that could be served by others; many things can be done that we do not need to bring before the assembly. Still, we have a divine institution in our minds all the time.
C.H.H. I suppose we can always count on results from prayer. You were remarking that the murmuring in Luke 10 was met by the Lord praying in Luke 11, and you see the sequel in John 12. In time you see results.
J.T. Just so. Here the murmuring is met really by prayer, because that is what they did. If we were told what they said in their prayer we would know whether it went beyond this matter, but the point is it was there. What did they pray about? The selection was made by the multitude and the apostles accepted that selection. Then what did they pray about? They prayed for Stephen, perhaps especially, and for all the others. Did they ask the Lord to increase His work in these men and make them greater servants? We do not know; we are left to judge between the lines. The twelve apostles would have a wide outlook and this is no
small matter, for these seven men are full of the Holy Spirit and well reported of. We have concrete additions in our services. These men may be more than deacons, who knows? But they become what the apostles prayed they should be; prayer entered into what they became afterwards.
S.P. We can see the effect of these prayers: in verse 3 they are to choose "seven men, well reported of, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom"; in verse 5 "they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and the Holy Spirit", and in verse 8 "Stephen, full of grace and power, wrought wonders". Is that the widening out of the result of prayer, further than what they ask?
J.T. That seems to be the point for us just now, as to what our outlook may be in this matter of prayer. Sometimes in prayer meetings the ground covered does not extend five miles from the room. It ought to extend all over the whole field! If we are truly with God it will extend over the whole field. I believe when the twelve prayed about this matter their outlook was wide, and the results in these two, Stephen and Philip, are probably the outcome of this prayer. That ought to encourage us to keep on praying. Paul says in the greatest epistle, "Praying at all seasons, with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit", Ephesians 6:18.
W.L. Would verse 4 really give us the outlook of the apostles in view of this deacon service?
J.T. "But we will give ourselves up to prayer and the ministry of the word"; they had that in their minds. They would cover the field all the time in this matter of prayer.
A.B. In chapter 4 it says, "The heart and soul of the multitude of those that had believed were one" (Acts 4:32). In that section spiritual ministry in the power of the Spirit seems to take precedence and
everything is subservient to it. Now the money matter has come in and caused dissension and the principle of oneness in the assembly seems to have broken down, but prayer and spiritual ministry would bring in recovery and spiritual prosperity.
J.T. There is healing; the breach is closed, and then we have Stephen. The Spirit of God seems to reserve great space for Stephen from the time his face shone like an angel. Let us read what it says, "And all who sat in the council, looking fixedly on him, saw his face as the face of an angel" (Acts 6:15). We should not use the word 'shone'; it says "as the face of an angel". That is taken on anticipatively, because our passage says of Stephen "Being full of the Holy Spirit, having fixed his eyes on heaven, he saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, Lo, I behold the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God" (Acts 7:55,56). Well, Stephen now is in his own realm, because he is a link between the provisional state of things in which the temple is recognised and the state of things in which the temple is not recognised. "Not a stone shall be left here upon a stone which shall not be thrown down", the Lord says in Matthew 24:2. So that now Stephen is in his own realm in looking into heaven. The epistle to the Hebrews has been called 'the book of the opened heavens', and Stephen is preliminary to it: he is looking into heaven and reflects what is in heaven. He has already done it anticipatively.
J.S. Do you think the assembly is taking on the heavenly character as seen in Stephen?
J.T. That is the thing. We are looking on to Paul, we are looking on to light from heaven, a vessel coming down from heaven, the sheet coming down from heaven; we are leading on to that. The Spirit of God takes account of things and He has
reserved a great place for Stephen. God has taken up a man and God will reserve a place for him, he will not be shut up; not that he preached the gospel, but it is in this great testimony that he indicts Israel. Now we get in the fullest way heaven opened up to him, as much as to say, You have done well. Heaven previously opened on Jesus; now it is opening on Stephen. All this comes in as the result of the apostles' prayer; Stephen himself, with stones falling on him, kneeled down and prayed.
A.N.W. Do you connect this with Joshua 10? God is listening to the voice of a man and the day is extended; Stephen was going to be martyred, but God was going to extend that day.
J.T. You mean the sun stood still, the day is lengthened out.
A.R. Why was Stephen allowed to do this? Why was it not Peter rather than a servant like this?
J.T. That is just the point: we get an emergency, and a man fit to meet it. It is no accident. God has all this arranged. God has got a space for Stephen to fill out.
J.T.Jr. Stephen represents a great product of the ministry of the twelve.
J.T. That is what I thought we should see. He is an outstanding development from the appointment of these seven men. Did not the prayer of the twelve enter into this great service he rendered? Supposing Peter was there outside the door when he was bearing witness; suppose Peter looked through the door and saw Stephen's face, what would he see? Suppose Bartholomew was standing there: they would look at each other and say. Our prayer is answered. Prayer as mentioned in chapter 6 has a great place. We are not told what the prayer was; we must leave it as to what extent it covered.
J.S. Is it not remarkable that he does not appear to have died in weakness as most men do?
J.T. No, he died like the Lord.
A.L. You said that Stephen was not an abnormal case, he was a normal case developed from prayer. In our local assemblies today where young men are not developing rightly, would that result from wrong administration?
J.T. Very often it is the breaking down of administration where the weakness lies. We had yesterday morning the appointment of Matthias to close the breach; the full administrative number was there; it runs through. The Lord appeared to the twelve, He recognised Matthias as of the apostles; He recognised all of them in authority. So that if administration is broken down we may get malformation in younger men, but we get no malformation here. If Peter and Bartholomew were looking in and seeing Stephen's face, how rejoiced they would be! There would be no jealousy with them; Peter would say, My face never shone like that!
A.N.W. Do you mean the gap in the twelve means defective administration, that eleven means defective administration? I mean nowadays.
J.T. Certainly; it is constantly happening; the elder brethren break down and the young men may come in and do the thing, but they are very likely not supposed to do it. A great responsibility rests on the elder brethren, that the young men may carry on in power.
C.H.H. Chapter 10 shows the apostles are not to be left out.
J.T. Peter is seen in chapters 9, 10 and 11 acting very wisely, but the product of this prayer is what is now engaging us. They say, "It is not right that we leaving the word of God, should serve tables". So they prayed as to this matter of the seven, and there must be results. What did they say? We do not know, but we do know the results.
N.W. Are you suggesting that it is happy if a brother is serving well in a locality to pray that the Lord may use him in a wider way?
J.T. It is a question of how wide our prayers are. We come together with a specific thing before us but in the presence of God we become enlarged. I do not know whether Solomon had mapped out his prayer, but he went the whole length, further than you might expect. Look at the territory he covered, look at the time he covered! He came right down through the whole of Israel's history!
A.N.W. There must be something very significant in the fact that the Lord spent a whole night in prayer before selecting the twelve.
J.T. I suppose it was twelve hours. The Lord would not waste a minute of it. Think of the territory He covered! He would look beyond Israel, look down the dispensation, because all these twelve men had gift and they were to influence the whole dispensation. The Lord's prayer would extend right down, I am certain.
Ques. Is it necessary for the word of God to increase? In cases of breakdown such as this, it is an important thing that there should be increase.
J.T. It comes in after the prayer, increase of the word of God, increase of numbers. Even if numbers do not come, there is increase of the word of God. In John 9 there were no converts apparent, not even the man's parents, but as with Noah, the word of God was there. Noah preached for a hundred and twenty years without a convert, but the word of God was there.
S.McC. In Ezekiel 1:27 it speaks of the man at the end of the chapter, "From the appearance of his loins and upward, and from the appearance of his loins and downward". He had a certain appearance. I was wondering if that is not seen in Stephen, the
power in what he was upward, as well as in what he was downward and outward in his testimony.
J.T. I think that is very good. In Ezekiel it is a question of the man's loins, of his affections, and Stephen I think would correspond with that.
F.K.C. In Stephen's indictment every salient point of Israel's history is covered in great detail, coming down to the seventy-five souls in regard of Jacob. Would you not say he was intimately acquainted with Israel's history?
J.T. He had read his Bible, read it no doubt from his youth, so that it stood him in good stead when the time came for him to serve.
A.R. Would it be right to pray like this in a prayer meeting on the Monday night, in view of Tuesday night in the ministry meeting? Some young brother may excel.
J.T. That is the way to look at it. The thing is very practical and very simple. The Lord has not told us to pray on Monday night exactly, but the Lord is with us, although the sisters may be tired and some of them do not come; but the Lord is with us. The prayers uttered usually require the saints for the answers. When Zacharias, John the baptist's father, prayed for John, of course he himself would be required for the answer. But he did not believe, and that is where the difficulty lies; we do not reckon that we are needed for the answers. Persons who pray on Monday night are at the ministry meeting on Tuesday night and the reading meeting on Thursday night, and they ought to be available to the Lord for the answers.
C.T. Is that why we should have the ministry meeting so near the prayer meeting, so that we may get the answers immediately?
J.T. That is a good time to have it.
J.W.D. Do you mean that in the prayer meeting the brethren pray for distinctive ministry and help,
and in the meeting for ministry I should be exercised to be the living answer to that prayer?
J.T. You are available for the answer to the prayer. Heaven is attentive to us and takes account of who is in a locality according to the prayers that are uttered; so the next thing is, are those in the locality available to make the answers effective? For instance, it is said in Revelation 8:6 that the angels "prepared themselves that they might sound" after the angel at the golden altar makes the prayers of the saints efficacious by the incense. The angels "prepared themselves" before they sound; they are available for the answers.
A.N.W. I was thinking about the young sister Rhoda, she saved the situation in connection with Peter. She made effective the answer to prayer that the others apparently did not.
J.T. She stood by it, too, the only one available there, although they all had been praying; she was the only one available to help Peter.
A.H.P. The thought of prayer reminds us of the healing of the breaches; it is in view of the work of God going forward. I wondered if Stephen's prayer at the close of chapter 7, "Lord, lay not this sin to their charge"(Acts 7:60), would pave the way for the coming in of Paul's ministry, the furthering of the ministry.
J.T. I do not think so. The Lord had said similarly, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do", Luke 23:34. That was answered. They were treated as manslayers and the city of refuge was opened up to them, but it was not so here; Stephen did not ask about any sin but the one against himself, he did not take the ground the Lord took in asking the Father to forgive them. All Stephen asked about was this sin, the one perpetrated on him, but even if that one was not laid to their charge, there were others enough to terminate
the system without it, so that the judgment of God, the judicial dealings of God went forward immediately.
J.R.H. I suppose personally he showed the spirit of the dispensation in his prayer.
J.T. He maintained it in regard to the sin against himself. He did not pray in the general dispensational way that the Lord did, because the time had come for the abnegation of the system. He himself was used to go forward in view of that. Philip in the next chapter is used to go out to the Samaritans and further on we get Paul.
A.H.P. In that way the indictment in chapter 7 is final.
J.T. The court is set, so to speak, Stephen's indictment is accepted, the Jews answer it by gnashing of teeth against it; they settled the matter themselves. I do not think that Stephen intended to alter that at all but he was in keeping with the dispensation in asking for the forgiveness of the sin against himself.
C.A.M. Would you say his prayer was answered in the Lord's singling out Saul of Tarsus, an individual rather than the national idea?
J.T. I think the selection of Saul of Tarsus was an abortion; it refers to the future; that is, he was taken up before the time. But the present situation is going through; the judgment of God is going through. I would not connect him with the general position, the Spirit of God did not want to change the position. Nor did Stephen want to change the general position; it was standing and Paul was still in it, still amenable to the judgment of God. Why did it not fall on him personally? Because, I think, God was beginning to look forward to the Jews coming back in the last days. "For I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, that ye may not be wise in your own conceits, that blindness
in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the nations be come in; and so all Israel shall be saved", Romans 11:25. Paul comes into Christianity as an abortion, not referring to what was happening then, but to the future; he was before the time.
J.T.Jr. This judaising principle that was working against Stephen should not have part in our meetings.
J.T. You see what Judaism was. It was exposing itself. Here is a most perfect setting out of the truth in the indictment. "And hearing these things they were cut to the heart". Well, if they had been convicted in their hearts, they would have fallen down and acknowledged their guilt; they would have been saved. There is not the slightest evidence of this; they gnashed their teeth at him. "But being full of the Holy Spirit, having fixed his eyes on heaven, he saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God". So that the Jews' position was sealed; the matter was finished, and anything that Stephen gave expression to would be as regards himself, that he was in keeping with the Christian dispensation. He was not calling for judgment against them, the indictment did that.
C.H.H. Would it be similar to John 8, those who were accusing the woman going out while the Lord was writing on the ground, the exposure of the judaising position?
J.T. I think Stephen exposes them in the indictment. Stephen was a thorough Christian; he was in keeping with our dispensation. He would say, I am not casting a stone upon them, they are casting them on me. The one without sin, let him cast a stone, the Lord said in John 8:7; but Stephen is not doing that, he is going out in the spirit of Christ, the spirit of forgiveness.
R.A. So it says, "Having fixed his eyes on heaven"(Acts 7:55), like the Lord Himself before His going out:
He "lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, Father", John 17:1.
J.T. It is all very beautiful, it is the continuance of Christ in the martyr. Paul characteristically says later, "Thy martyr"; that is the position, that is what a martyr is. It is a good thing to look at a martyr, to be, as it were, an advocate. To set out the guilt of a man is one thing, Stephen has done that; but as to what he was personally, he was like Jesus as far as he could go. 'Do not lay this sin from which I am suffering to their charge'; that is the position, so that he represents Christianity. It says, "They stoned him", and what was he doing? He was praying. There is a long note on this word "praying" here: ''invoking'',calling on'... . No one can be called upon really but God, so that the word has great force as used here'. He was invoking, invoking the whole Deity, that is the idea; there is no other object in invocation but God in His infinitude. Stephen is doing that; he has ceased indicting and is now invoking; "And kneeling down, he cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And having said this, he fell asleep". What a sight for heaven that was! What intelligence as to the whole position: the state of the Jews and what he was himself as a Christian, a follower of Jesus; how he maintained that in the fullest measure!
A.R. What a sight for this young man Saul! What a sight for heaven! What a sight for him after he was converted!
J.T. That is another thing; he "was consenting to his being killed"(Acts 8:1).
I turn now to this next point that comes before us in chapter 8. Stephen is buried, and now we have this prayer, the service of Peter and John in regard to the Samaritans. That is the next point filling out this section in the progress of the testimony.
E.F. You were speaking of 'invoking', 'calling on' God in His infinitude. Yesterday you were speaking of addressing divine Persons. Do we ever speak to God as such, involving the whole Godhead?
J.T. The Godhead? Yes, certainly. That is what he is doing here. We do not invoke anyone else but God.
E.F. I understand there is one God, the Father, Deity expressed in Him. Do you have in mind in saying 'God', that you are calling upon the Godhead in that sense?
J.T. Yes, when it is invocation; when no name of a divine Person is given it is general. That is the position. It has a peculiar form here.
S.McC. Do you think now in chapter 8 Philip would be humbly reminded that he is certainly not out-distancing the twelve? He is like those of us who may serve in a small way now: we have to learn and be adjusted in relation to others in serving; in that way we are dependent upon the twelve.
J.T. That is good. It is really a sectional matter, chapter 6 is a sectional matter, Samaria entering into it, Samaria being a rival of Jerusalem. The Lord Himself had set it out in speaking-to the Samaritan woman, "For salvation is of the Jews", John 4:22. The salvation of the Jews had not been fully set aside yet; the sending down of Peter and John from Jerusalem is to settle this sectional matter of Samaria. Samaria never got any good out of sectional feelings; they must be given up; that is what is meant. "And the apostles who were in Jerusalem, having heard that Samaria had received the word of God, sent to them Peter and John; who, having come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit", Acts 8:14, 15. The pretension of Samaria is wiped out, I mean truly; every truly converted Samaritan would be thankful it is wiped out, for after all, they would say, 'we are only mongrels;
we were never anything but mongrels, but we are converted to God through Christ'.
J.R.H. Do you mean in this action of the apostles that the unity of the work in Samaria with that in Judaea was fully shown out?
J.T. The pretensions of the Samaritans are dissipated. We are apt to have national pretensions and assumptions.
J.R.H. It may be a different place, but one work.
J.T. Yes, but there is more in it than that, the pretensions of Samaria have to be dissipated. They never had any value, they always lived in the idea that Jacob was their father and he was not at all. The Lord sets their pretensions aside in conversation with the Samaritan woman; He says, "Ye worship ye know not what; we worship what we know, for salvation is of the Jews", John 4:22. That was the position that the Lord asserted. What happened here is the filling out of it, so that the Samaritan matter is settled, that is what is meant. Jerusalem would own the apostles, hence Jerusalem sent out Peter and John; two apostles from Jerusalem have to pray that the Samaritans shall get the Holy Spirit in spite of all their pretensions. They were sent down solely for that purpose, to set aside the pretensions. Any one who has pretensions must have them dissipated if he is to get on.
C.A.M. All that is worked out in the assembly. This matter of John 4 is all to see a reflex in the assembly.
J.T. Any pretensions that any of us may have must be dissipated, because we shall never get on if we hold on to prejudices. What about Philip? He would probably have to get to God about this: 'Why did they not get the Holy Spirit through me?' You hear people say, 'I got the Holy Spirit as soon as I believed'. You cannot be sure of what you are saying; you might say what is contrary to Scripture.
The Samaritans did not get Him at once. Perhaps you are like them; perhaps you have some prejudices in your mind that have to be dissipated through the truth.
J.S. Was it necessary that this department in regard of money should be established by the apostles before the testimony could move on?
J.T. You mean the matter of Simon Magus?
J.S. I was thinking of the setting up of seven deacons to take care of the money matter.
J.T. One of the apostles said to Simon Magus, "Thy money go with thee to destruction"(Acts 8:20); that is how a deacon looks on money in the hands of an unconverted man. But what is it in the hands of deacons? There it is something, because love is behind it.
J.S. Do you regard Simon Magus as a mongrel?
J.T. Quite so, he is a bad man. Peter discerned him, but Philip did not discern him; that is another thing to notice. A great servant may fail in a point and another great servant puts it right.
R.W.S. This unadjusted matter had gone on for centuries.
A.H.P. Why is the prayer specific here that they might receive the Holy Spirit? Is that to help the saints in the understanding of the importance of receiving the Holy Spirit?
J.T. There is more in it than that, it brings out a principle. What we said about the Samaritan claims is involved in it. We cannot assume to get the Holy Spirit just as we are converted, just as we believe. This shows that certain people did not get Him, although they were baptised. Peter and John have to come down and pray.
A.N.W. And lay their hands on them.
J.T. First it says, "Peter and John; who, having come down, prayed for them that they might receive
the Holy Spirit; for he was not yet fallen upon any of them, only they were baptised to the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands upon them, and they received the Holy Spirit". It is a very precise transaction and it settles it once for all; but no one can say he receives the Holy Spirit automatically as he believes. Further, the time that intervenes may be indefinite.
J.S. Was Peter unlocking the door for the Samaritans? He had the key.
J.T. In a way, but it was Peter and John here; John is in it too. When you come to the use of the key Peter did it alone, John was not in it; that is in chapter 10.
A.R. Therefore when we speak to the young applying for fellowship, it is not enough to ask if they have the forgiveness of sins, but have they the Holy Spirit? That side is sometimes overlooked.
J.T. That is the line Paul followed at Ephesus: "Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye had believed?" Acts 19:2.
S.McC. "And Simon also himself believed; and, having been baptised, continued constantly with Philip", Acts 8:13. It must have been a very humbling matter for Philip to think that this man was so near to him that he "continued constantly with Philip", and yet he was exposed by the service and ministry of others. We have much to learn in that regard.
J.T. The whole position was ordered of God to rebuke this Samaritan assumption. But still Philip came into it. What excuse would he have when he saw the exposure of Simon? 'Why did not I see that'? I am sure he felt that, because he is honoured afterwards.
C.T. How do you connect the laying on of hands and receiving the Holy Spirit today?
J.T. The laying on of hands is just identification. We do not use that form, but we identify ourselves with the brethren when we announce that a certain person is going to break bread that day. We are identifying ourselves with him.
C.S. Would submitting to the word and seeking to do the will of God prove that we had received the Holy Spirit? We are obedient to the truth as laid down by the apostles.
J.T. Chapter 5 says, "And we are his witnesses of these things, and the Holy Spirit also, which God has given to those that obey him" (Acts 5:32). They obeyed before He was given, the evidence of obedience must be there before we get the Holy Spirit. If you are not clear, that may prevent you from getting the Holy Spirit. Bad teaching abroad today hinders people from getting the Holy Spirit, as with the twelve men at Ephesus. They had not even heard of Him. If they had been attentive to what John the baptist taught them, they would have known that there was One coming; they had not really learned all that John taught. That is what is going on today, there is so much bad teaching, and there are so many careless people listening to it. They do not get the Spirit because there is so much bad teaching.
J.W.D. Here it supposes they heard the word of God. Would that not involve some comprehensive idea of divine outshining? "The apostles who were in Jerusalem, having heard that Samaria had received the word of God, sent to them Peter and John" (chapter 8:14). They would have had considerable light imparted to them in the preaching.
J.T. Yes, they had light and yet not the Spirit.
J.W.D. The Holy Spirit could not be received where there is defective understanding of the truth.
J.T. Yes, I would say that. Peter says that God gives the Holy Spirit to those that obey Him. Before
they get the Holy Spirit they have the feature of obedience through the earlier work of God.
C.S. There are sometimes questions asked of those seeking fellowship that are difficult for them to answer. Is that a proof that they have not the Holy Spirit?
J.T. The fruit of the Holy Spirit would be the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit; that would help us in seeking to determine whether a person has It or not. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, fidelity, meekness, self-control", Galatians 5:22. Look carefully into his history and see if he has these fruits.
C.T. Ananias' service was that Paul might see.
J.T. He was already converted, fallen down, yet he did not have the Spirit.
C.S. Would that be a ground for refusal of fellowship?
J.T. Certainly; any one who has not the Spirit would not be in the assembly.
J.Ht.Jr. Would what is said of Cornelius, "pious, and fearing God", have an influence? "While Peter was yet speaking these words the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were hearing the word" (Acts 10:44).
J.T. Of course he had not received the truth of the gospel. "While Peter was yet speaking"; I suppose Peter preached enough of the gospel and they received it before the Holy Spirit fell upon them. Peter was still preaching when the Holy Spirit came upon them.
C.H.H. If there are pretensions and sectional feelings as in Corinth, would you say they had not the Spirit characteristically, which might happen anywhere?
J.T. I think the Corinthians had the Spirit characteristically.
C.H.H. They were spoken of as being carnal, that is what I mean.
J.T. I think the way the apostle speaks of the Spirit in chapter 2 would prove that they had the Spirit, and then in chapter 3 he says to them, "Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?"(1 Corinthians 3:16). That would prove it.
C.H.H. I mean 'characteristically'. They had It abstractly, but was it in a concrete way expressed?
J.T. The expression of it would be greatly marred by their conduct, but as called the assembly of God, they had the Spirit undoubtedly; it is stated here, "the Spirit of God dwells in you".
J.R.H. What was your thought as to the Holy Spirit, that He "was not yet fallen upon any of them" (chapter 8:16)? This matter of 'falling' we have in the case of Cornelius and his household too.
J.T. It alludes to the manner of receiving. The Lord Jesus speaks about It as being 'received', "But this he said concerning the Spirit, which they that believed on him were about to receive", John 7:39. So Paul says to the Ephesians, "Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye had believed?" Acts 19:2. 'Falling on' is not simply the action of gravity; it is an energetic action of the Spirit. Peter says it was the same thing that happened at Pentecost; he likens it to that. It seems to be God's way of dealing with persons collectively; several of them received the Holy Spirit at once.
Ques. Would verse 24 show that Simon was unable to pray, not having the Spirit? He asked Peter to pray for him.
J.T. "Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and supplicate the Lord, if indeed the thought of thy heart may be forgiven thee"(Acts 8:22,24). You mean he could not pray before he had the Spirit?
Rem. Peter has to pray for him, he is apparently unable to pray.
J.T. Peter told him to supplicate the Lord himself. We do not know whether he did or not. However, it indicates that you may supplicate the Lord like Cornelius before you have the Spirit.
P.W. What about Acts 1:8: "But ye will receive power, the Holy Spirit having come upon you, and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria"? How do you understand the Lord's speaking there?
J.T. That is what we are talking about, it is the way the Spirit comes in collectively; It came upon them collectively. So It did in Caesarea, in Cornelius' house; It came upon them collectively, but each one received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 9:10 - 17; Acts 9:39 - 42; Acts 10:1 - 17, Acts 10:28 - 33
J.T. This section refers to the administrative authority of Peter, committed to him by the Lord under the term, "the keys of the kingdom of the heavens"(Matthew 16:19). It was thought well to read the passages referring to Saul's conversion, as he was being prepared, as it were, for this great event, then to consider Peter's service at Joppa as bearing on local assemblies in view of their incoming under Paul's ministry, and finally the prayer of Cornelius at the ninth hour, in which he had a vision, and Peter's prayer on the housetop. So that the great event of the incoming of the gentiles into the kingdom of the heavens is marked by prayer. The further we proceed in the subject, I think we would all admit, the more the importance of it increases in our minds, and it ought to influence us greatly as to this matter of prayer in the prayer meeting. We finished this morning with Philip's service and the apostles at Jerusalem sending down Peter and John to Samaria that those there might receive the Holy Spirit. The matter of Samaria's rivalry with Jerusalem was adjusted in that event and was never to revive, for rivalry is shut out by the gift of the Spirit; but the fact of the Spirit coming in in connection with the assembly at Jerusalem, and that the apostles were at Jerusalem, before that city was set aside, shows that its full place is owned insomuch as Samaria's claim is concerned.
H.G.H. Is the thought of submission set before us here in the expression, "Behold, he is praying"? We get Saul's conversion, as we speak of it, and we now see him praying in connection with it.
J.T. I would say that. Before, he was an insolent overbearing man, and he had come from Jerusalem armed with letters from the high priest allowing him to do acts of violence in Damascus, but now he is looking to heaven for help, a dependent man. The Lord introduces him to Ananias as a man who is praying. What he prayed would be very interesting to know; but anyway it says he saw in a vision Ananias coming in; as the Lord says, "For, behold he is praying, and has seen in a vision a man by name Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he should see". How did the vision convey Ananias' name?
A.N.W. Do you think he was praying before he had the Spirit?
J.T. Manifestly. It is said here by Ananias, "that thou mightest see, and be filled with the Holy Spirit" (verse 17). He would hardly have received the Holy Spirit until he was baptised, because of the position he held in Judaism; until he formally broke links with it publicly he would not be fit for the reception of the Spirit.
C.T. Is that why the word 'see' is so prominent? We get it in verse 12 and also in verse 17 as from Ananias' side.
J.T. Yes, "that thou mightest see"; so that he should see and then "be filled with the Holy Spirit". Seeing comes before the reception of the Spirit.
A.N.W. Praying would be the evidence that he was born again.
J.T. Well, that is the point; just as we see in Cornelius and others, dependence and subjection in prayer are features of new birth.
C.N. Would it be right to say that his praying is not so much in connection with his own conversion as in relation to the range of things ahead of him?
J.T. It is hard to say how-much his own state entered into his prayer, I would say that would be
the immediate burden. The immediate burden would be his dead state and deliverance from it.
Ques. Does his state have a great deal to do with the immediate response? It says, "Behold, he is praying", as though these visions and the movements from the divine side come in immediate response. I was wondering if that was a prompt answer to the state that was with him.
J.T. I think that is so. There is no indication that he was praying before the Lord appeared to him. This is the reaction and the Lord awaited the reaction. As the Lord appeared to him it says, "Suddenly there shone round about him a light out of heaven, and falling on the earth he heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul, why dost thou persecute me?"(Acts 9:4). Well, there is no evidence that he was praying before that. I think he was fully confident of being able to cope with the conditions in Damascus; he was commissioned to deal with them and he was not relying on God then. He was an insolent overbearing man, but now that light has shone into his soul his attitude is that of prayer.
A.R. The last time we heard of him he had seen a man's face shining as an angel's. The next time we hear of him he has a light from heaven shining around him, and "he heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul, why dost thou persecute me? ... I am Jesus, whom thou persecutest!". I was wondering if he would not link them both together in his prayer.
J.T. That is good. As suggested a little while ago, he was dependent and submissive. He says, "Who art thou. Lord?". Elsewhere we are told that he said, "What shall I do, Lord?"(Acts 22:10). His attitude was one of subjection and dependence, clearly in effect it was the work of God that is called new birth, a sovereign action of the Spirit; but here it is accompanied by much more than accompanies it with most believers.
C.H.H. Would he correspond in any way in the commencement of his public history with the Lord in Luke? He was praying and the Spirit came on Him.
J.T. Yes, there is clearly a link there. As the Lord was praying the Spirit came upon Him, and of course Acts is a counterpart of Luke's gospel. In the Lord's own case, as we had it already, how much He was in prayer! So that the work of the Spirit in us, that is in men, leads to correspondence with Christ from the outset.
S.J.H. Would not the three days without seeing convey something as to his state and what he was passing through?
J.T. I suppose it would. If anything of Romans 7 entered into it what a time he must have had! The Lord evidently gave him scope, before he got the Holy Spirit, to search himself inwardly. He was not looking at external things, he was blind.
A.N.W. Would these prayers before receiving the Spirit, and in the case of Cornelius before he was saved, have the nature of what the Lord said to the woman in John 4, "If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that says to thee. Give me to drink, thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water"(John 4:10)?
J.T. Just so, there it is: "If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that says to thee, Give me to drink, thou wouldest have asked of him". The Lord implies considerable knowledge in her soul for that: "Thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water". It is the same sort of exercise with Saul here, the desire for someone to deliver him. "I thank God, through Jesus Christ our Lord", he says in Romans 7:25, after "Who shall deliver me?". There is that sort of feeling and desire in his heart, and the Lord was waiting for that. He was waiting for the reaction to the first
impact. What would happen? The Lord was watching for that and could tell Ananias about it so that Ananias should know that he was to be in that matter, he was to have part in this great work. I suppose it was Ananias' greatest work, and the Lord told him this so that he might be in it intelligently and in liberty.
S.P. Is that why the Lord passes this great vessel through the hand of a certain disciple in a certain locality? "It shall be told thee what thou must do".
J.T. It must have been a humbling word to him, "What thou must do"; it was not optional. That is a good point because many at this stage are very loose and independent. The word 'must' is important.
C.H.H. Would there be an indication that as Saul passed through the exercise of Romans 7 that exercise would be met by ministry?
J.T. It would. If any part of it entered into these dark hours evidently he worked it out in his own soul according to that passage. External ministry is not contemplated in Romans 7; it is an inward process that each has to go through, and he says it is "when we were in the flesh"(Romans 7:5), so that it is difficult to see how it would have fitted in after he got the Spirit and was preaching. It would look as if in some sense it was worked out at this time. Perhaps he was working it out before secretly, you may say unconsciously, after he witnessed Stephen's death, for the Lord says, "It is hard for thee to kick against goads", Acts 26:14. There must have been something definitely going on in his soul, but now the matter is taken on by the Lord and Ananias is brought into it. He is introduced into it by the suggestion of prayer; this man is praying.
W.L. Would Ananias be impressed by this? It was not merely a matter of information to him.
J.T. I am sure it was not. I am sure he retold these incidents many a time in Damascus and I have no doubt that the apostle Paul himself told the disciples in different parts something about it.
H.B. Is there something to learn in that there are many names of places and many names of persons given?
J.T. The idea of place must have a great part in this dispensation, because the whole world is in mind; certainly now in this chapter places are in mind, and persons too.
H.B. Would it help us to be more specific in our prayer meetings?
J.T. That is what we were saying already. Sometimes prayer meetings do not go very far beyond the meeting room in their scope, but the dispensation is a very long one and prayer should cover the field. The Lord bought the field in view of what was in it; now we are coming into the field of the gentiles, and persons and places surely have a great place in the record. In the opening of the letter to Corinth it is said, "To the assembly of God which is in Corinth ... with all that in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both theirs and ours"(1 Corinthians 1:2). So the pearl of great price is involved now, we are coming on to the ground of it. It alludes to Paul's ministry of the assembly, and great scope of territory and time are in mind, and also persons.
A.R. This vision must have brought with it some sense in Paul's soul of the mystery which later he had so much in his mind, and his prayer might embody something about the mystery; "Why dost thou persecute me?" and "Rise up and enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do", would be suggestive of the mystery.
J.T. It certainly was preliminary work in his soul when a man like this was told he must do certain things, obey orders from certain persons. He
might say, Lord, you give me all the instruction, but the Lord did not give him all the instruction. He said, "Enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do". It is a most important part of the believer's experience, most important, initially, because he has to learn to take orders from others and from persons whom earlier he might have looked down upon.
C.T. Would you connect the city with the assembly today?
J.T. The idea of the cities, as we have been speaking of places, has a great place in this dispensation. The Lord says to Paul, "I have much people in this city", Acts 18:10. The work is chiefly in cities, but, of course, it is in countrysides too. It is a question of concentration of evil and how God meets it, because the concentrations of evil have to be overcome.
C.A.M. Would you say in that connection that all the conditions surrounding Paul's conversion were the design of God in view of the city? While those in Damascus were going on in discipleship they must have been in great fear of this powerful enemy, and he was very near to Damascus too; it says, "It came to pass that he drew near to Damascus", Acts 9:3. The Lord had timed the deliverance in a very wonderful way.
J.T. Damascus was the habitual enemy of Israel and Saul would know that well. He would go there to execute judgment from the high priest. So he is allowed to get near the city. How much he knew of Naaman I do not know; he ought to have known about Naaman the Syrian, the rivers of Damascus and so forth. It would be well-known territory to him objectively, as it was opposed to Israel: "For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin", it was said in Isaiah's day (Isaiah 7:8). Hardly any country had more to do with
Israel than Syria and Damascus. In his natural state Saul would certainly be aware of all this and have it in mind in approaching the city. Now he has to go in and get his orders; a great revelation must take place in his soul, and that runs down in the history of all souls. We have to learn to take orders from others, not only from the Lord but from the brethren. One will never be an assembly man unless he learns to take orders from the brethren.
W.L. I was wondering if dependence and obedience go together.
J.T. They do. That is just what you find in his soul. What good are the letters of the high priest now? What will they obtain for him in Damascus? He certainly cannot carry out their orders; he might as well burn them. He had taken orders from the high priest, but now he has to take orders from others, and the Lord has already told him that he must do so in the city of Damascus. His natural instincts would revolt against it, and that is what happens, we have to give up our natural instincts and learn to be subject and dependent instead of insubject and independent, otherwise we shall never be in the assembly according to God, nor shall we find the pearl of great price in it.
S.P. So the "must do" and the "must suffer" go together.
J.T. Quite so. He has to learn something about these "musts".
A.B. Would the three days involve no seeing, eating or drinking?
J.T. A great gospel subject! Tell us more.
A.B. I was thinking of it as really the end of that order and the bringing in of another according to God.
J.T. I am sure he is set out here as a model. He tells us himself that in him was set forth a delineation of those who shall hereafter believe unto eternal
life. We have to keep our eye on Paul for our part in the assembly, our part in the dispensation and the assembly as he brought it in.
J.W.D. It says in the end of Romans 7, "I thank God, through Jesus Christ our Lord"(Romans 7:25). Do you think the idea of "our Lord" and the deliverance connected with that are connected with Ananias and city exercises?
J.T. Just so. Of course when he wrote the epistle to the Romans he had come into contact with a great many more Ananiases.
J.W.D. I was thinking that souls in the throes of Romans 7 get emancipation through the idea of obedience to what is set up locally.
C.N. Does Ananias show, over against all this concentration of evil in Damascus, what one man might be in a city and that God can, as it were, turn the city upside down through that one man? I am thinking of Ananias being in prayer.
J.T. Paul gives him a good recommendation. He does not seem to have been a very wonderful brother; he thinks he knows better than the Lord at the outset. He says, "I have heard from many concerning this man" (verse 13), as much as to say the Lord did not know him. Many are like that; they know better than the Lord; they know better than the Scriptures. But he is amenable to the Lord; the Lord says, I must have it this way, you may as well bow; Saul had to bow. Thus Ananias was brought into the system; he was hardly fit for it but I think we learn here how quickly the Lord can bring us into line and make us suitable for His service.
J.S. Do you think the Lord has taken His seat on the throne of grace between chapters 7 and 9? In chapter 7 Stephen sees Him standing; now apparently He has taken His seat and is exercising grace in that way.
J.T. Well, if you listen to Mark he says He sat down as soon as He went up there. Of course what Stephen saw was just symbolical of the Lord's readiness to come back and save Israel, but sitting is the permanence of the reign of grace.
R.W.S. Did He come down, appearing in the way, to secure Saul in view of the importance of the local assembly?
J.T. It is a question of where the thing happened. We have entered on the idea of local companies and the end of this chapter shows that Peter had entered into the current; he went through all quarters, it is said. The current of the economy had already begun, involving administration in the assembly, involving local assemblies. Peter is going to Joppa and the other places at the end of the chapter, showing that he was dealing with localities. Aeneas was told to make his bed; "rise up, and make thy couch for thyself"(Acts 9:34), that is what Peter said. Then at Joppa, Tabitha is a local sister, or at least a local person, and he raises her up and delivers her to the local people, "having called the saints and the widows, presented her living" (verse 41). "Presented her living", that is to say, she is presented to a local setting and the local people. Aeneas is making his bed for himself in his place, and now Paul is converted at a certain place, Damascus, and he must begin to receive orders there. I think all this is in order to bring out the new thing involving local assemblies.
J.H. Would Damascus be Paul's local company?
J.T. Well, for a while he would be there with the disciples. It says "he was with the disciples who were in Damascus certain days". That would be enough to give him the experience of a local company. I suppose he would refer to Ananias in any matter in the meeting. He would have respect for
Ananias because he would always remember that he was the vessel that the Lord had chosen, for his inward deliverance.
J.Ht.Jr. Would you say that to be of immediate value in the local meeting you need to be in the spirit of the dispensation? Ananias had heard other things about Saul and tended to set aside the way the Lord can transform in a short time.
J.T. I suppose that would be a part of the lesson to be learned out of these circumstances. How quickly the Lord can change a brother and make him fit to help another brother, one of whom he had no good opinion! So if we are at all subject the Lord would make us useful to one another. Young converts have to learn to take orders from others.
Rem. As soon as he received orders he went; he moved immediately.
J.R.H. Would this help us to make every allowance for the work of God showing itself in others?
J.T. Yes, I think so. And visiting the saints is a matter of real importance. The Lord directs him to a certain street and a certain number; giving a man's name and address lays a basis for visiting the brethren.
A.R. If we were to go to heaven and sit beside the Lord we would find the work of God is one theme on earth. I was wondering if that was what the Lord wanted to bring Ananias into here and set them both as one piece.
J.T. Quite so. The history of Saul afterwards would bring out a great deal which we cannot go into now, but enough is said in these few verses to indicate how the work of God proceeds, how quickly the Lord can adjust matters so that brothers can serve one another. We are to serve one another in love. Saul gets his first lesson here in the way
Ananias served him; he lays aside all his prejudice, comes into the house, lays his hands on Saul and says, "Saul, brother"; he calls him 'Brother'.
C.H.H. Would the experience that Ananias had in being corrected help him to correct Saul? It is as though he would stimulate Saul by saying, "And now why lingerest thou?"(Acts 22:16); so the stimulation he had from the Lord is carried on.
J.T. Yes, quite. When Saul tells the Jews at Jerusalem about this incident later he intimates that he was rather slow in being baptised. He confesses that to the Jews, as much as to say he was not in a hurry to leave Judaism when he was converted, and Ananias wanted to know what was hindering him: Why are you delaying being baptised? Paul tells the Jews that, as much as to say, I was not in a hurry to leave Judaism, but Ananias was in a hurry about it. So it says, "Arise and get baptised" (chapter 22:16), and he was to get the Holy Spirit, "that thou mightest see, and be filled with the Holy Spirit" (chapter 9:17). I think all the facts of the three accounts we have are intended to help us as to early experience after our conversion. First, to learn to take orders from others, persons we might look down on otherwise, and then not to delay in the thing that should be done. "Why lingerest thou? Arise and get baptised, and have thy sins washed away, calling on his name" (chapter 22:16); that is what he tells the Jews. He meant to convey to the Jews that he was not in too great a hurry to leave Judaism but Ananias was in a hurry for him to leave it.
J.S. Is Ananias set over against the Sanhedrim, and Damascus over against Judaism?
J.T. He represents Christianity, as we have said already, but the Lord had to prepare him. He was not right and the Lord set him right. He was not equal to the work, the Lord had to prepare him for
it. That is another thing, in seeking to serve we must be amenable to the Lord's adjustment if we are to serve aright. Clearly Ananias served very well as Paul's comments on him later show, "a pious man according to the law, borne witness to by all the Jews who dwelt there"(Acts 22:12).
J.S. Would it be like the Lord saying to Zacchaeus, "Make haste and come down", Luke 19:5?
C.T. The apostle says at the close of his day, "The time of my release is come"(2 Timothy 4:6). Is that a man who has been under orders?
J.T. That is right. The Lord is about to release him through martyrdom.
C.H.H. The Lord said to Peter, "And thou, when once thou hast been restored, confirm thy brethren", Luke 22:32. Adjustment must take place with Peter first.
S.P. Would you expect these geographical locations that you mention, Damascus, Lydda and Joppa, to enter into the spiritual import of these brethren's prayer meetings from now on?
J.T. Undoubtedly these are the beginnings. Historical Christianity is important, but current Christianity is also important, as we had last night; the blind man in John 9 brought in the historical side first to the neighbours and then current conditions to the Pharisees. These incidents in Peter's service at Joppa and Lydda were, you may be sure, often related by the people who were the subjects of them. There is Dorcas, a woman who undoubtedly had a place in the society of the town, but now she is a changed woman. We have finished with Saul: he is set on his way by taking orders at Damascus where there is a meeting and a brother who tells him what to do, and he does it. He gets the Holy Spirit and preaches Jesus as Son of God;
he is thoroughly on his way. And now, later in the chapter, we have Peter moving, as though he were sensing the change in affairs and as he goes into all quarters (these are special quarters, Lydda and Joppa, and what he does there is historical) he is enlarging, we might say simply, laying the width of the rails, because the train has to go out into the world among the nations. We have to have wider gauge, so that is what he is doing. Then when we come to chapter 10 we find Peter still in Joppa; he spent a good while there with Simon the tanner. Joppa was at the end of the Mediterranean; the Mediterranean refers to the gentile nations and that would be the outlook as he went up to the housetop to pray. In the meantime there was another man, in Caesarea, who was praying, too, Peter at the sixth hour and Cornelius at the ninth hour. It is remarkable; these prayers are going on. This is the secret history of the work of God and we are going to have great results.
E.F. We get a great deal of synchronising in this section, the prayers of His people with His work.
J.T. Yes, showing that even the use of Peter's keys is preceded by Cornelius' prayer. It is a remarkable thing! Mr. M. brought the matter up yesterday of everything being the outcome of prayer. Certainly the use of Peter's keys is preceded by Cornelius' prayer. He is a remarkable man; he is not an ordinary man, he is a military man, a titled man too, a centurion, and he has a soldier as his servant who is called pious. So we must not be too hard on military men because they are needed, according to their names and their ranks. One of them is said to be pious but Cornelius is more than that. He was a centurion of the band called Italic, meaning he was a thorough Roman, nevertheless "pious, and fearing God with all his house, both giving much alms to the people, and supplicating God continually" (chap.
10:2). This is the man who is going to be the beginning of the gentile work.
Rem. Peter was a praying man in dealing with what was sectional at Joppa. The widows were all standing by him, but he puts them out and kneels down, and then deals with that by presenting Dorcas alive to the saints and widows.
J.T. Quite so, it does not say to the weeping ones. There is nothing said about the saints before he went there; they seemed to be all Dorcas-people before he went there and as he went they were weeping, we are told, showing him the garments, "And all the widows stood by him weeping and shewing him the body-coats and garments which Dorcas had made while she was with them. But Peter, putting them all out, and kneeling down, prayed". That is, he discriminates against those weeping and occupied with the garments, but now we are told there are saints and widows there. He does not hand her back to the recipients of the garments: he presents her to the saints and widows and that is important as to local matters. It shows that the local position must be purified. He put them all out; that is very arbitrary, but you will have no assembly if you let these people stay, wailing about garments.
J.R.H. Peter kneeled down and prayed, showing the position in Joppa was more serious than in Lydda.
J.T. He knew well enough what that wailing and body-coat making meant; it meant social affairs.
A.N.W. The condition is too negative at Lydda and too active at Joppa.
J.T. Just so. The paralysed man could not do much, but this matter of the wailing and the garments is to be watched, because we shall never reach the local assembly according to God on these lines. Peter is very drastic, he puts them all out and turns to God and prays.
C.A.M. It is very remarkable about this matter of piety. There is a great deal made of it in these different characters. Would you not say that there may be a danger of resting in so-called piety? We should pray with expectancy for some intervention of God, some heavenly intervention. I was really thinking of the whole matter, because Ananias and Cornelius, indeed all these men, were pious.
J.T. Are you making little of that?
C.A.M. It seems to be indispensable, but is there a danger of resting in it? A home needs to be marked by piety, but really to be in assembly light it seems to need some additional heavenly touch to it.
J.T. Well, that is what we get now in chapter 10. Peter had laid the basis in Lydda and Joppa for the local companies, and now with Cornelius we come to another territory in Caesarea, and it involves a military man with a title and a servant who is a soldier; but Cornelius is described, as we just noted, as "pious, and fearing God with all his house". I would say that he had some light because he was fearing God and had his house with him in it. That is a very important thing in view of what we are coming to, because "thou and thy house" is so strong a feature in Paul's ministry. Paul has nothing to do with this case but instinctively this man says, I must have my house apart from the social affairs of Caesarea. Agrippa came there later, and if Cornelius were there undoubtedly he would be recognised, but his house was out of the world already. It is with his house, not and his house, as in the case of the nobleman at Capernaum in John 4:53 who "believed ... and his ... house". There the house believed by itself, but here Cornelius believed with his house, as far as he had got, "fearing God with all his house, both giving much alms to the people, and supplicating God continually". He is a remarkable man, and he is taken up to represent the introduction
of the gentiles. He is going to come in formally by the keys of Peter. So we must look at this in a formal way to see how the keys were employed. He is outside of Christianity, yet he has traits of Christianity with him.
A.B. Is he different from the man in chapter 3, who was carried and laid at the gate asking alms? Here is one actually outside the system bearing the character of what is within, praying, giving, and marked by piety.
J.T. Yes, yet he is still a gentile commander of the Italic band; but he is like the man in John 9he is ready for this matter. When God is doing great things. He prepares for great things.
J.S. Is he like the centurion who is set under authority and beseeches the Lord to come and heal his son?
J.T. That is right. There are several centurions in the New Testament. It is remarkable how the work of God carries them further than their external position. The one at the cross was simply in charge of the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus, but he says, "Truly this man was Son of God", Mark 15:39. He got beyond his external position; that is a great thing, to get light beyond the light you have.
C.T. Is this on the line of Joshua, "But as for me and my house, we will serve Jehovah", Joshua 24:15?
J.T. Yes, this man is ready for Paul. Peter does not make much of the believer's house, Paul makes a good deal of it, especially to the jailor as we have often said. Here this man is anticipating all that, his instincts are right, they are sure, they are accurate. Before he hears the gospel he has the instincts of the work of God. He is a prepared man for this purpose. We hear nothing of him afterwards, but he is prepared for this purpose.
C.A.M. This all enters into the city life, dwelling in a walled city. He would come into the blessing of that dwelling established for ever.
J.T. Well, quite so. He is certainly remarkable as representing divine preparation. You get people converted on the spot, thoroughly in the darkness before like the man at the gate of the temple; but here is a man like the man in John 9, prepared for a purpose. The Lord said of that man, "Neither has this man sinned nor his parents"(John 9:3). Well, what was he there for? "That the works of God should be manifested in him". What about Cornelius? He is to be introduced into the kingdom of God by Peter. He is a prepared man, so all that follows is in keeping with this. He is praying at the ninth hour and he gets a vision; Peter prays at the sixth hour, and he gets a vision. The work of God is going on according to these records and the result is seen at the end of the chapter. But in the meantime Peter's experience is that he is waiting for his lunch, speaking simply. He goes up to the top of the house to pray, that is, we are reminded not to waste our time. He has a little time while awaiting dinner and he is going to use it in prayer. It turns out that in this matter of prayer (whatever he said we do not know) he is on the Mediterranean and he is looking out from the housetop. What is he praying about? Is he beginning to think of the wide domain that the Lord is operating in? In any case that is what happened; he was praying, spending his time profitably. We are reminded that we should not waste our time. If we cannot do anything else we can pray. There is plenty to pray about and there is great result in the house of God. The vision comes down, and he tells us just what it was: there was a vessel like a great sheet; God goes to all that trouble to enlighten Peter. He has already prepared Cornelius, now Peter must be prepared; that is to say, the man who
is to be helped has to be prepared and the man who is to help has to be prepared. So the whole matter is preparation. The work of God should not be carried on in any casual way, but carefully; not slothfully; you lose no time. If you have a little time before the preaching use it in reference to the preaching.
A.B. Is Rahab another example of this preparatory work of which you speak?
J.T. I think so. She had flax in her house preliminary to the state she came into and in view of what she had been.
A.T. Is there a suggestion that Dorcas had too much to do in making garments and no time to pray? She had only an upper room, part of a house, whereas Cornelius had a house.
J.T. She was occupied with things that do not enter into the assembly at all, but they were considered very praiseworthy. Cornelius had a house and servants attending, and he used his time well.
H.B. Why does God use an angel to speak to Cornelius, the Lord to speak to Ananias and the Spirit to speak to Peter?
J.T. An angel represents what is providential and distant in a comparative sense. That described Cornelius' position at the moment: he was really afar off and without God and without hope in the world. Externally that is what he was, having no part in the covenants of promise.
J.R.H. Would it be right to say that Cornelius and his house was a good example of what God was going to effect?
J.T. It is the kind of material God can use; that is a great matter. When God made the universe, where did He get the material? He created it out of
nothing and yet there are great features of material in the universe. Now He is creating another universe and here is part of the material; it is ready for the great event; but Peter has to be made ready, that is the other side.
J.T.Jr. At the end of the prayer we should be different from when we started.
J.T. We ought to be. The point is to use the time and to use it right up to the moment of your taking part in service, because the devil is watching and if he can bring in some little bit of frivolity he will spoil your address. Angels prepare themselves to sound. Prepare yourself. We have to watch otherwise the devil may get in before we begin to speak.
Ques. Would the idea of prayer and fasting come in?
J.T. Quite so, that is another thing.
S.McC. Would you link this up with Romans 2:7 "to them who, in patient continuance of good works, seek for glory and honour and incorruptibility"?
J.T. Yes, that is the sort of thing. Cornelius is one of those.
H.B. Would you say why this is the Spirit's matter and the matter of Saul is the Lord's matter? Is there something to learn from that?
J.T. I am glad you brought it up. This matter of Cornelius is a distant matter: he is still outwardly in a place of distance though inwardly possibly nearer than others perhaps in a place of nearness. It is the secret side of the matter, how God operated secretly before the public result.
S.McC. In verse 27 it says, "And he went in, talking with him". It is not 'talking to him' but with him; would that show the result of the preparation both in Peter and Cornelius?
J.T. Just so. It is very beautiful and moreover he said, "I myself also am a man", not a Jew, it is a question now of man.
J.S. Would his prayer in that light be an expression of man's weakness?
J.T. Well, it is that, no doubt, but it is a question of man's dependence, which is a more beautiful thought than weakness.
S.McC. As the chapter proceeds, it seems the idea of distance recedes. Cornelius does not say he saw an angel standing, he says, "And lo, a man stood before me", as if that is really bringing the matter a little nearer, in relation to Peter's service in coming near.
J.T. That would be how the angel appeared, so that man is now finding a place; Judaism is receding and it is man that is in mind. We have not time to go into the matter of the sheet but the incident was thrice repeated to impress Peter with the fixity of it. What is represented in the sheet is a fixed matter; it happened three times, then the sheet was drawn up into heaven. That is, the whole thing is going up; it is a heavenly matter hereafter; it is not a question of the Jews but of the assembly, and of the assembly being heavenly, coming out of heaven, coming down here in a threefold sense in testimony and going up again into heaven into its own place. That is really what is to be learned in the sheet. Then Peter says, You sent for me, and, as it were, I was in no hurry: "Wherefore also, having been sent for, I came without saying anything against it" (verse 29). What a remarkable thing! He is in no hurry to leave the Jewish setting but still he is doing it. He is slow but steady, and now he is with Cornelius and his house, and he says, T am a man like yourself. Cornelius says, 'I saw a man', so that we are on the ground of men now. Stephen had seen the Son of man in heaven. We are spreading out now to the domain of
man. The Lord Jesus is alluding to man. He has rights among men. He has bought the earth so that He can move out and secure the treasure and the pearl. Now we get this incident of how Peter got on with Cornelius. What a nice company there must have been at home in his drawing-room, as we might say! He brought in his friends; they were all his friends, he was not going out to the highways and hedges. Peter says, 'I was not in a hurry, but still I am here'. I do not say anything against it. But why should he not be in a hurry? It shows how difficult it is to get a Jew out of his setting; but he is out of it now. Peter is now in a gentile house, in a soldier's house with his family and friends, and Cornelius says, "Four days ago I had been fasting unto this hour, and the ninth I was praying in my house, and lo, a man stood before me in bright clothing, and said, Cornelius, thy prayer has been heard, and thy alms have come in remembrance before God". Now this is remarkable, he is known in heaven. He is a priest; like Job, he is beyond his dispensation.
C.A.M. He seems to be always looking right on to the fact that the sheet will go up.
J.T. You can see he is ready for it. He is not hankering for the earth, nor his title, nor his associations in Caesarea. The idea is that this man belongs to heaven; his very name is known up there. When he goes up he will be received.
J.T.Jr. The heavenly side of it will deliver us from personal feelings, when we are akin with God. God is no respecter of persons.
J.T. I think it would help us as to these friends he had in to listen, because there would be a social side to the matter, and Peter opens his mouth and preaches to them. Then as we come down the chapter, "While Peter was yet speaking these words the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were hearing the
word"(Acts 10:44). I think heaven is pleased with this company. It represents secret work and heaven knows perfectly what is underneath this matter. It is not simply Peter's preaching that heaven is thinking of but what is underneath the matter. Peter's preaching is the official side, it must have its place, but God is not waiting until Peter finishes; He takes charge of this company, embraces them, like the Father falling on the prodigal's neck, an energetic action of the Father's to take them on. It is the same word as is used in Luke 15:20.
C.N. "But that the works of God should be manifested in him", John 9:3.
A.B. Is that why it is emphasised in this chapter, "Simon, who is surnamed Peter"? It is mentioned three times.
J.T. Very good, he was surnamed.
C.H.H. Is there a similarity between this and John 9:37 in the Lord getting near the blind man? It says there, "He that speaks with thee is he", whereas to the woman in John 4:26 it is, "I who speak to thee am he". With thee would be nearer.
J.T. Peter is speaking with him here. I think this embrace of heaven is very wonderful. It involves the preciousness of the pearl that the Lord had in His mind. How pleased heaven was with this company, shown in the action of the Spirit falling on them!
C.A.M. Would you think it would go as far as what is suggested in Ephesians, "He has taken us into favour in the Beloved"(Ephesians 1:6)?
J.T. God has it in mind. It is a love matter and heaven is saying. Well, Peter, you must go the whole way; you have the keys, you have the official place. But heaven is going beyond him and running faster than Peter. It is a question of the envelopment of
the objects of affection by heaven, the Spirit taking charge of them.
C.A.M. Peter knew that Cornelius was one "having no hope, and without God in the world", Ephesians 2:12. What a wonderful range the whole thing covers!
J.T. That is the idea. Peter says, Who indeed was I to be able to forbid God? It was God's matter, so that he commanded them to be baptised at this time.
J.R.H. You were speaking about the gift of the Spirit. This is the only incident we have in this book about the Spirit being received without the exercise of faith.
J.T. Without any confession of faith. It is a question of God knowing what is there, because the gift of the Spirit is God's matter, not Peter's. Peter did not have to pray for them to get the Spirit as in Samaria. It is God's matter, really the Father's matter. He is falling on the prodigal's neck and kissing him.
J.W. Is the Holy Spirit falling on this company different from being filled with the Spirit in chapter 9:17?
J.T. I think it is. As we said this morning, it is a collective allusion. In Acts 2 it is the Pentecostal matter; it is what happened then, but I think here it is God honouring the gentiles when the Spirit takes hold of them as It did the Jews. As Paul says later, putting the gentiles on the same level as the Jews, "So then ye are no longer strangers and foreigners, but ye are fellow-citizens of the saints, and of the household of God, being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the corner-stone, in whom all the building fitted together increases to a holy temple in the Lord; in whom ye also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit", Ephesians 2:19,22.
The 'ye' is the gentiles. I think that Peter alluding to what happened at Pentecost in his account of the matter would indicate that the gentiles are in the same position, on the same level, as the Jews in the house of God.
C.A.M. It is wonderful to think of Peter getting on as far as Ephesians.
J.T. Yes, that is it. It is God's matter; that is the ground on which Ephesians stands. "God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love wherewith he loved us, (we too being dead in offences), has quickened us with the Christ, (ye are saved by grace), and has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus", Ephesians 2:4 - 6.
C.H.H. Is there an indication that these features seen in the different households such as those of Lydia, the Philippian jailor and Cornelius, involving the introduction of Christ among the gentiles, are re-appearing at the end of the age?
J.T. Yes; it looks as though God is reviving things among us, but in a very small way, and some are very reluctant to go into them. It is not a question of an individual believer receiving the Holy Spirit, but it is God receiving the gentiles, just as the Father received the prodigal. The word is the same, "Fell upon his neck", Luke 15:20.
W.L. Is that why Peter does not stand on his dignity in regard of this matter? It speaks of him as being told to go down and he does not take a high attitude in any way; he goes down.
J.T. We ought to read chapter 11 but we have not time to get Peter's own account of it.
A.N.W. He might have sought to forbid God. "If then God has given them the same gift as also to us when we had believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who indeed was I to be able to forbid God?"
Acts 11:17. He dare not do that. It goes with what you say about the willingness of God to receive the gentiles.
J.T. He just saved himself from impairing the scene, as much as to say, I did not say anything to God against it. He should not impair the scene at all, but he should be out and out in it; chapter 11 gives us a better view of him in this regard.
Acts 13:1 - 4; Acts 14:23; Acts 16:13 - 31; Acts 20:36 - 38
J.T. Having pursued our subject to the opening of the door to the gentiles through Peter's administration, it is thought that we should now look at the work among the gentiles in the hand of the great servant who is especially the apostle to the nations, Barnabas being associated with him at first. Antioch, being the starting point of this great work which continues up to the present day, ought to be specially considered. We see how certain ones are mentioned as given up to the service of God, ministering to the Lord as it says, and fasting; they are occupied in the service of God directly. The Spirit had liberty in this setting to call for these two servants, Barnabas and Paul, and we are told that "having fasted and prayed, and having laid their hands on them, they let them go. They therefore, having been sent forth by the Holy Spirit, went down to Seleucia, and thence sailed away to Cyprus", Acts 13:3, 4. That is, the position is clearly stated, the assembly features developed under the ministry of Paul and Barnabas are marked by the direct service of God, and the Holy Spirit has liberty in which to widen the work, standing as it has for all these centuries throughout the whole world up to this very moment.
It is meet that we should specially notice the beginning of the work, what marked it, the place prayer had, and then what marked the two servants in their service, and then the great work in Philippi. That is, the work in Europe has begun and it is especially marked by prayer. They found prayer was wont to be made there, even before the apostles arrived. Then finally, we see in chapter 20 what a
place the apostle had in the affections of the brethren, chapter 20 being a chapter of mutual, reciprocated affections, that is, affection in the servant and in those served. They were mutual, which would be a great matter for us too.
J.S. We had Damascus yesterday and we have Antioch today. What are the special features marking these cities?
J.T. What marks Antioch is the work developing from the labours of the scattered saints, not directly from the apostles although they had fellowship in it, having sent down Barnabas, who was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit. He sought out Paul and brought him there and they laboured a whole year, teaching in the assembly, we are told; too Antioch is signalised by one thing: the disciples were called Christians there first; then the service of God appears there, this direct service Godward which we do not get in such a formal way earlier.
H.G.H. Is the suggestion here that prayer is necessary in order that that service might be rightly carried out? We get the Holy Spirit initially moving in relation to it and that is followed by prayer so that the service might be rightly fulfilled.
J.T. That is what I thought we might see at the beginning, for it is the point of departure for service among the nations and prayer has certainly a marked place in it. The direct service to God is another thing to be noticed; it is not mentioned in this formal way earlier.
A.N.W. What do you regard as the direct service to God? What is it?
J.T. "Ministering to the Lord and fasting". There is direct ministry to the Lord.
W.L. Have you any thought as to the diverse persons who are found here?
J.T. Persons that are mentioned, I think, are to bring out the idea of personality in the service. It
must have been a large assembly, but these are especially mentioned, "prophets and teachers: Barnabas, and Simeon who was called Niger, and Lucius the Cyrenian, and Manaen, foster-brother of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul". We have here personality, which is a great feature with God. It will be a feature eternally, for personality will be there according to stature, the work of God seen in that sense.
J.T.Jr. Barnabas and Saul are already known to us before this chapter. These others, I suppose, are like additional features of the work of God, bringing others to light.
J.T. Yes; one is called Niger, another the Cyrenian, another what you might call a nobleman, foster-brother of Herod. There is variety as to their original status and there is variety in the persons.
H.G.H. That would give us variety in prayer, thinking of each one as they laid hands on them and let them go. Would that help us on these lines in relation to the various servants serving in their own particular sphere?
J.T. Quite so; I think that it has been so from the outset in the service of God, in the testimony of God, personality has put its stamp on it; even in Genesis and Exodus, and then throughout the historical books, the prophets, and so in the gospels and epistles we have the idea of personality. It will run on to the millennial day, because the Messiah is called a Prince; when He is spoken of as representative He is called a Prince instead of King. It is generally Prince, alluding to personality.
W.L. Would you say that they are not asserting their personality here? They seem to be on common ground.
J.T. The Holy Spirit is asserting it, which is more important. If a man is beginning to assert his personality the Holy Spirit will forget him, He will
not mention him. It is men that have personality in the sense of princely qualities that interest the Spirit; those men do not assert their personality; they leave it to others, nor are they concerned about it. It is a question of God and the adornment of His system of things. On the other hand in Revelation 11:13 the world is adorned by seven thousand names, "And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and the tenth of the city fell, and seven thousand names of men were slain in the earthquake", showing that that line does not continue; it does not survive the catastrophe, whereas the persons whom God would honour are seen above.
A.R. I suppose what has to be observed in persons who are spiritual is that they are not unduly occupied with their service. It says they were prophets and teachers, gifted men. What was in their minds was the service of God.
J.T. Instead of exercising their gift, they were exercising priestly qualities; they were serving God in a priestly sense.
S.P. Is there any significance in the prophet preceding the teacher in importance?
J.T. There is; the gift of prophecy is greater than the gift of teaching. The order of the gifts is apostles, prophets, evangelists, and then shepherds and teachers (both gifts in one person), so that the teacher is not equal to the prophet. I think God would start out with the principle of adornment in His service as it comes among the nations, so these are not ordinary persons but extraordinary persons.
A.N.W. You say a teacher is not equal to a prophet. You cannot tell which is which of these names.
J.T. Quite so, but the order is 'prophets and teachers'.
R.W.S. Is there a suggestion that the gentiles are responding now to the Father's embrace when
the Spirit fell on them? They are taking advantage of the open door.
J.T. Yes, it is a question of love, the gentiles approached with this expression of affection. It is really like the Father's affectionate embrace of the prodigal; the Spirit fell on them and the word 'fell' is the same idea. This is the excellent start they got in Cornelius' house. Peter's account of it afterwards makes it a very beautiful incident, a great incident in the testimony. Then there is the work done by the scattered ones, persons with no distinction. Philip is used, of course, and mentioned, but the scattered ones went to Antioch. He did not go there, so that the course of the testimony was through the scattered ones rather than through him. He was found at Azotus, and later is said to have four daughters who prophesied, but the course of the testimony is through Antioch by the scattered ones who are recognised by Jerusalem. The church still has ears attentive to what God was doing and they send Barnabas, so the stream of the testimony was northward and westward; that is how the matter stands.
S.R.McC. As Job says, "From the north cometh gold", Job 37:22. Would this be some of the gold?
J.T. That is, it would be gold in the sense of discipline, not like the gold of the land spoken of in Genesis 2, which does not suggest discipline but rather the encirclement of the river. Job's allusion would be to the northern lights, but it would be in the sense of discipline; gold comes in that way.
C.H.H. Is there a progressive and constructive line to these prayers in the Acts, culminating in chapter 21, where they embrace one another?
J.T. Following and inclusive of chapter 20 it is a question of love that prevailed, especially as between the servant and those served, particularly when he is journeying to Jerusalem. Now that he is
on his journeys the different evidences of affection are shown, especially in chapters 20 and 21.
R.A. The feature of Jabez would mark them here. "Oh that thou wouldest richly bless me, and enlarge my border!" 1 Chronicles 4:10. Hence the Spirit's voice comes in in relation to Paul and Barnabas.
J.T. I think Paul's prayer, "Behold, he is praying", as we commented on it yesterday, and Peter's on the housetop, would both have in mind enlargement. It is the Japheth side of the race; his name means enlargement. It is enlargement of a good kind, not colonial enlargement such as we have in modern times, the overflowing of European populations. It is enlargement spiritually and this is the start of it, what there was at Antioch.
A.R. It was said of them, as nowhere else in the Acts, "The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch" (Acts 11:26). I suppose it would enhance the personality of the saints.
J.T. It would. The word 'called' is an oracular idea. God would have it so. That is to be observed in regard to Antioch; it gives Antioch distinction.
W.B. What is the value of this word, "Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them"? They seemed to have been already ministering.
J.T. The time had come for this great matter but the Spirit waited until certain local conditions existed before He proposed it. Our attention is called, especially from chapter 9 on, to local conditions, what conditions are needed for divine operations. God can act in spite of conditions, of course, but He can act in favourable conditions and these are what He looks for in all matters.
S.McC. Would this be a twofold aspect of the way that the servant comes into the service? There
is the Lord's own commission to him definitely marking him out as in chapter 9, and then the Spirit operating through the brethren.
J.T. I think the time had come to mention the Holy Spirit as acting sovereignly; all that we have had ever since and what we are having now is in mind. The point is to get a good start. There is the way heaven regards the servants and then the action of the Spirit Himself here below, not the Lord directing things from above but the Holy Spirit actually in the locality and knowing the local conditions; it involves first-hand knowledge. Of course heaven has first-hand knowledge, but the actual presence of the Spirit here below in a locality implies He has first-hand knowledge of the conditions that are needed for divine operations.
S.McC. So that while Saul had a definite sense in his soul of a commission from the Lord directly from heaven, he did not arbitrarily lay it upon the brethren. We would have this kind of thing. Although they must have recognised it at that time yet there comes this period; he is waiting, working and doing things and now comes this moment when he is officially designated by the Spirit for the work.
J.T. Yes, and local conditions are especially in mind, because even as to himself he is the last mentioned on the list, showing that he has not put himself forward at all. Of course, we would expect Barnabas first without question because he had influence at Jerusalem; that is what some would say. Saul is not trusting that at all, he is not saying that; he is the last mentioned. The general local conditions had ripened, time had afforded the opportunity for this movement of the Spirit. If the Spirit is hampered locally the operations must be hampered.
A.N.W. "The work to which I have called them" would be a matter between the Spirit and these two men.
J.T. It would be. It goes on to say, "They therefore, having been sent forth by the Holy Spirit, went down to Seleucia, and thence sailed away to Cyprus", Acts 13:4. It was His action to send them forth, but the action of the others is most beautiful, for the Spirit says, "And as they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said. Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them". "Separate me now", alludes to time. "Then, having fasted and prayed, and having laid their hands on them, they let them go" (verses 2, 3). That is, they would gladly keep them but they are with the Spirit and there is not the slightest thought of relief locally, that these two would no longer be amongst them, and there would be more scope for the younger men. They "let them go"! It was the Spirit's demand they were adhering to.
A.N.W. Barnabas and Saul themselves would each know the Spirit had called them, would they not?
J.T. Perhaps so. You mean that call may have been just purpose in the mind of the Spirit. They may have known, but the Spirit is asserting His will in the matter that they were the subjects of call.
J.W.D. Then you do not think the scripture that says, "A prophet is not without honour, unless in his country and in his house" (Matthew 13:57), is consonant with the spirit of Christianity? Christianity removes that and the prophet should be honoured in his own country.
J.T. Quite so, it would be a question of the state of his own national connections. The Lord, of course, is alluding to His own position among the Jews; it was their state that was in mind. In a local meeting today a brother who definitely has a gift ought to be loved. If he is not loved in his local
meeting it may be a question of the state of the meeting, but at the same time those who are prominent have to bear in mind that they must be lovable if they expect to be loved.
W.L. I was wondering if that is why the Holy Spirit links on with the state of the meeting at Antioch rather than with the gift that was there. It is "as they were ministering and fasting", not on account of there being prophets and teachers present.
J.T. It was the state of the meeting, but at the same time the gift was in mind because these two were gifted men; their ability was in mind. But I was wondering about Mr. D.'s remark and whether he has anything further to say about this matter of a prophet being without honour in his own country.
J.W.D. It has often been quoted as a normal feature necessary for the discipline of the servant, because in most cases the servant is much more in honour outside of his own locality, but I have always thought it was abnormal.
J.T. It is abnormal. If a man is lovable, as John the apostle was, "the disciple whom Jesus loved", and his local brethren do not love him, you may be sure the local state is wrong.
P.W. Could you help us as to the phrase, "The Holy Spirit said"?
J.T. I would say He would speak through some brother. He would use some vessel, but whom He used is not mentioned. Paul says later, "The Holy Spirit testifies to me in every city, saying that bonds and tribulations await me". Acts 20:23. I would say that He spoke through the saints; we know anyway that in Caesarea, in the house of Philip, Agabus spoke and urged him not to go to Jerusalem. The Spirit is not incarnate; He uses men and women to speak through.
A.R. Normally speaking, you would commence your service in the full recognition of your brethren locally recognising the gift you have.
J.T. I think a brother ought to have the confidence of his brethren, but it will not do to say he must wait for that, because the lack of confidence might not be his fault. I mean to say, if the assembly assumes that a servant should not minister without having its confidence, that is out of place. The Lord has not committed that matter to it. All that is said here is that "the Holy Spirit said, Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them". It is a question of whether the Spirit has called a man. The Spirit honours the assembly but the assembly is not sending the servant nor is his service dependent on the confidence of his local company; it is a question of what the Spirit has ordained. If the man has a gift, and the Spirit plainly indicates that He wants to use that man, and the saints are not with him, then the saints are wrong.
C.T. In other words, is this a command? There can be no hindrance.
J.T. There could be no hindrance; it was the Spirit's direct command, "Separate me now". That is all they had to do.
J.S. Would you say the assembly in Antioch was in full sympathy with this movement?
J.T. The assembly is honoured by the Spirit of God asking it to separate these two brothers.
J.S. The brothers would be lovable.
S.P. In chapter 15 they are "set on their way" by the assembly.
J.T. That is the assembly at Antioch and that is quite right, but the assembly was not asked to do it. They were chosen by the assembly to go up to Jerusalem about that matter; it was a doctrinal matter and controversial; but this is a matter of
public service in the gospel, and the assembly does not send them; it is the Spirit that sends them.
S.P. I was only wondering as to chapter 15, whether confidence did not enter into the position.
J.T. It was important, showing that these men had the confidence of the assembly. It related to a controversial matter; it says, "A commotion therefore having taken place, and no small discussion on the part of Paul and Barnabas against them, they arranged that Paul and Barnabas, and certain others from amongst them, should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders about this question", Acts 15:2. That was simply as a brother might be asked at a care meeting to do so-and-so, but this refers more to the assembly. The work among the nations is a matter of the sovereign action of the Spirit of God into which the assembly is called as a sort of centre of divine operations; but common missionary practice is not scriptural at all because the truth involves the Spirit sending people out.
S.McC. How would this work out today? You would not look for it in the same formal way in the conditions of brokenness we have today.
J.T. It is a question of having the thing in our minds. A brother wishes to be free in the service, to take up any specific service, and he would like to have the confidence of the brethren; but in no sense do they send him. It is simply that he desires their confidence or fellowship, that is all there is to it.
J.W.D. I understand that in New York you are free to support your local brethren in connection with their levitical service outside the city by giving them money.
J.T. We do not do it very much. We almost avoid supporting our local brethren; we send it to you and the like!
J.W.D. I have heard of brethren in your locality that you have laid your hands on in that relation.
J.T. As a matter of fact we do not do that to any great extent, nor is it put on us. Of course we have fellowship with the brethren who are serving and show they are being used, but you cannot say very much about that.
J.W.D. I was wondering whether that would be an acceptable form in which the local brethren would show their laying on of hands.
J.T. We pray for them, but there are so many that we could not send much far away if we kept giving to them; the number around New York is large.
J.W.D. I am referring to the principle of the thing.
J.T. Quite so, the principle of support, and especially in our prayers.
A.N.W. Should a brother, otherwise free, be restricted if he has not the confidence of the brethren?
J.T. Each case has to be dealt with by itself. If some governmental limitation is attached to him, that would apply. The clear position here is that the assembly is brought into the service of God in the sense of a basis or sphere of operation. It represents heaven here below to that extent, but not to the extent of commissioning men to go forth. They would have done so in the past, as in the case of Barnabas whom they sent down to Antioch; and Peter and John were sent to Samaria. But these are all dispensational matters and Jerusalem had a peculiar authority; it is never seen in a gentile meeting.
C.H.H. I was wondering about the case in which the apostle Paul speaks of laying his hands on Timothy and the laying on of hands by the presbytery. What bearing would that have?
J.T. That would be special to whatever presbytery it was. That would be just the elders, whereas Paul, as an apostle, had special authority; but that
would be only in the case of a man like Timothy who was an auxiliary of the apostle, an apostolic delegate. All that sort of thing does not exist today.
J.S. Would Antioch be regarded as a sort of centre for these men?
J.T. They came back to it to bring out the principle of the local setting; they regarded Antioch as their local meeting. They stayed there for a considerable time; then they went up to Jerusalem in regard to doctrine. But the general principle of missionary work is stated in these verses in chapter 13; it is the Spirit of God who sends forth and not the assembly.
J.Ht.Jr. Would there be a link between this and the end of chapter 11 which speaks of their teaching a whole year and the disciples being first called Christians in Antioch?(Acts 11:26) That is, they manifested that they were able to help the brethren.
J.T. They laboured in the assembly: "They were gathered together in the assembly and taught a large crowd". That is one of the most remarkable statements you can get. The crowd would gradually merge into the idea of the assembly and vanish, because the idea of a crowd does not fit the assembly. The idea of a crowd must vanish, merge, as taught by apostolic ministers, so the assembly absorbs the crowd, so to speak. That is what you get in chapter 11 and it is all creditable to the remarkable ministry of these two brothers. They laboured for a whole year to bring it about.
J.T. The four seasons bring out the conditions that cause exercise from every angle of the year. The education will be seen, so you have results stated in chapter 11 and they are named Christians oracularly, the name 'Christian' is stamped on the work. So the mission to the nations has an excellent start.
C.H.H. When we sit in a care meeting and the question comes up as to inviting someone for special ministry, is that a correct procedure or should there be some other way?
J.T. I think the word 'inviting' only means opening the door to them. I do not think there is anything out of the way in it. I am sure the Lord is in that. It is just giving a servant liberty; if he proposed to come he could do that, too. It is a question whether you are able to receive him.
C.H.H. If things are normal the one invited should have the confidence of his local brethren as well as that of the brethren who invite him.
J.T. A brother might be tied up with that 'should' if you make too much of it; rivalry and envy are so subtle. Someone would say, I am not happy; that word 'happy' might not mean anything. There must be a manifest reason for anything of that kind; your saying you are not happy will not do.
S.McC. Sometimes some have sought to assert rights over those who serve, restricting them, taking the place of the Spirit's having the right to mark out certain ones.
J.T. I think that should be carefully watched. There should be a very good reason for limiting a brother in his service, that is, if he has ability to serve and his service is acceptable, efficient.
S.J.H. Is the establishment of elders in chapter 14 to maintain these local conditions so that things might work out happily? "And having chosen them elders in each assembly, having prayed with fastings, they committed them to the Lord, on whom they had believed" (verse 23).
J.T. You are coming to the second section we read. I thought we might come to that now as showing how concerned the apostles were about local conditions, as if they said, We have left good
local conditions and we should like to see these conditions prevail in all the assemblies that are formed. The apostles were concerned about the stability of the assemblies that had been formed through their ministry; therefore they selected, or chose, elders, and prayed, that the stability of the assembly should be there. That is why I suggested that verse be read, because prayer is mentioned in the selection of these elders. "And having chosen them elders in each assembly, having prayed with fastings, they committed them", that is, the assembly, "to the Lord, on whom they had believed". The idea is now they are set going and the elders would stabilise things; there would be rule locally to maintain good local conditions. If there is not rule in a locality you cannot have good local conditions; rule depends on moral power. If God has given a man moral power and the brethren refuse to listen to him, then they are against the authority of God.
J.T.Jr. In Song of Songs 1:6 it says, "Mine own vineyard have I not kept". I suppose the apostles here really kept their own vineyards; there were right conditions at Antioch before they left.
J.T. Just so. No doubt the new assemblies that were formed were formed very freely; God worked mightily every day as is mentioned in chapter 16. You may be sure the local brethren would say, How about Antioch where you have just come from? And they would tell them, no doubt, how they got on at Antioch.
A.R. I have heard the brethren ask you that; it is a good way to look at things. They say, How do the brethren do things where you are?
C.A.M. Do you think that God, in making a new move, gives in that way some kind of a model, as in Acts 13, in view of all this expansion westward?
J.T. Yes, it is God's way to set up a model. The garden of Eden was a remarkable place: no doubt it
was to be taken account of in later days; but then sin came in. Adam was put there to dress it and keep it, but he did not keep Satan out. That is the principle, the persons in charge, the elders, are intended to keep Satan out. We get the qualifications required for elders spoken of in 1 Timothy and Titus, so that if we were to ask what these elders were in character, we would go to these two epistles where Paul gives us the qualifications. It is important to have men of moral weight locally so that administration does not break down and Satan is not allowed in. The democratic principle must be abolished. It is a question of moral power in rule; a man has not a right to speak unless what he says has moral power behind it.
A.H.P. Does the last chapter of the Song of Songs enter into that subject? "Solomon had a vineyard at Baal-hamon: he let out the vineyard unto keepers; every one for the fruit thereof was to bring a thousand silver-pieces. My vineyard, which is mine, is before me: the thousand silver-pieces be to thee, Solomon; and to the keepers of its fruit, two hundred"(Song of Songs 8:11,12). Would that be the same thought?
J.T. Very good. Solomon was in mind; in the one thousand pieces the keeper was concerned about Solomon and he represents Christ to us. There is a yield for Him; that is what the apostles had in mind in choosing the elders. Notice the apostles themselves chose them elders in each assembly, that is how it reads in chapter 14:23. That is, the apostles relied on the ability God gave them in discernment to choose these elders. They were not chosen by vote, but by the apostles; it was with apostolic authority or through apostolic delegates like Timothy and Titus. Of course there are no such officials today; it is a question of moral weight amongst us.PRAYER AS SEEN IN THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES (2)
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