Pages 1 to 423, 'God's Government and Service' and Other Ministry, 1931 - 1942 (Volume 212).

GOD'S GOVERNMENT AND SERVICE

1 Peter 1:1 - 9; 1 Peter 2:4 - 12

J.T. We may be helped in enquiry into this epistle in the light of God's government and service at the present time, for there has been much pressure. The apostle has in mind that the persons addressed were in like circumstances, contrary circumstances to what they might have wished or expected. The government of God lies in that, that circumstances are different from what we may expect. This epistle teaches us that the circumstances according to the will of God are perfect, and to be accepted. In the acceptance of them God does His best for us, that is from His point of view, which we would all recognise to be the best. The persons addressed are regarded as of the dispersion. Some other will than their own had acted; they were dispersed. But whatever the will was that was immediately acting, the point is to bow to the will of God. God being behind the circumstances has something in view. His best, what His love designs for us. In Jeremiah's time some were similarly dispersed, and Jeremiah wrote to them to stay where they were, and to multiply, and not to be diminished (Jeremiah 29:6, 7). It requires faith to stay in these circumstances, but as a result we see how God does His best for us. They are in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia. James speaks of the twelve tribes of the dispersion, but there the condition is more general. When conditions are more general they are easier to accept, even if they are adverse. But here it is more acute; but they are "elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by sanctification of the Spirit, unto the obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ".

That is the divine standard of those facing these apparently adverse circumstances.

Rem. For those to whom Jeremiah wrote safety lay in accepting their circumstances.

J.T. The refusal to bow to divine ordering means that we shall come under divine judgment. The judgment of God is a wide subject and dates back to the deluge. Certain racial conduct, for us gentiles, and certain conduct in the history of the church have occasioned divine action, for which we are externally suffering.

Rem. Is the confusion of tongues an example?

J.T. All who travel know something of that. We may not notice the things, but if we travel with God we shall know them and feel them. We are in circumstances religiously that we would never have desired. Our position is abnormal; we are outside, and not only in the world but in the profession. The subject is wide, and it is really essential that we should understand the circumstances and the government of God. But He does not alter; what He was, He is. And so these of the dispersion come in for better things than those lost through unfaithfulness. In these circumstances we belong to the elect of God. The elect come into the best. Jesus, God's elect, was in like circumstances, and on Him the Father opens the heavens and expresses His delight. Here we are "elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by sanctification of the Spirit". We are reminded of the positive side, and as of the dispersion this is the act of the Spirit, bringing us into accord with Christ: as it says, "unto the obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ".

Ques. Would the end of Matthew 11 bear on this?

J.T. That sets it out. The Lord was suffering rejection, but He rejoiced in the Father, the sovereign Ruler of heaven and earth. God would do something better for Him than if His ministry had been accepted

by Israel. The first eleven chapters have Israel in view; but God has better things in view, things to be revealed to babes, but leading up to the assembly. It is a question of our sanctification. The standard is not lowered by the change of circumstances. Moreover the sprinkling of blood is a basis for a new order things to God's glory.

Ques. Is it an allusion to the whole tabernacle being sprinkled?

J.T. The thought is well known in the Old Testament, and Hebrews brings out the basis on which the system is set, in contrast to the types. The thought goes back to Exodus 12, and then in Exodus 24 is the establishment of the covenant, and the sprinkling of the altar, the book and the people. In Leviticus 16 and other places is seen the import of the sprinkling. Here it is the "sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ". It is set over against the blood previously sprinkled.

Ques. How does the sprinkling relate to what follows?

J.T. It is the solemn footing we are on before God. The government of God cannot be fruitful save as we are on a righteous basis before Him. The believer is not shaken. Peter traces government from the angels that fell, right on to the new heavens and the new earth. He links up the saints with it by the Spirit, links them up with what is past and what is future.

Ques. Is the obedience spoken of here like that of the Lord Jesus?

J.T. Yes. He brought in this kind of obedience; it is how He obeyed. The circumstances put all this to the test. They were really like the Lord's circumstances. The government of God in Peter and Jude covers all God's dealings known. They begin with angels; the disobedient angels are cast down. He takes up the world that was, the present world, and

the world to come. Circumstances arise contrary to what we might wish. In their acceptance we prove what God can be to us. When the Lord came there was the greatest adversity; the people were scattered and under Roman rule. Messiah was refused, but He was perfect in all that, and He faced the whole matter. He died under the Romans, but He went beyond all that and faced the whole matter to God's glory. He met the whole question that had brought in God's judicial ways, and He left God free to work out His own thoughts; our safety lies in submission to Jesus. All this is worked out in those who accept the circumstances. The standard has been brought in by Christ. There is a lever in the light that comes into our souls as being elect, elect "by sanctification of the Spirit, unto the obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ". It is "unto". The sanctification of the Spirit has in view this obedience.

Rem. Obedience with the Lord Jesus was an attitude of heart, "He wakeneth mine ear to hear as the instructed".

J.T. That is good. The law was in His heart.

Ques. Shall we suffer outwardly?

Rem. But bowing to that the Lord opens the door of privilege.

J.T. Indeed. They come into something better. They had been dispersed; they had not moved to make money. Some of the Jews may have moved for that reason, but they had moved otherwise. The disciples were to be men of portent; they were to be like Him. God has brought in, in Him, the standard of obedience; so He has brought in what is new. Here they are "sojourners of the dispersion", "elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by sanctification of the Spirit, unto the obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ".

Rem. Only that kind of obedience will do; there is no other thought.

J.T. The highest order of obedience would be seen in John's gospel, "As the Father gave me commandment".

Ques. Would Aquila and Priscilla illustrate this?

J.T. They were in a dual position. They were christians, treated as Jews. They accepted it, and they are found at Corinth, and without pretending anything, or claiming anything, either as Jews or christians, they are working; they are artisans, tentmakers. Paul would have no aspirations, either as tent-maker or at any work, but he is there with them. What did Paul mind as to the thought of the authorities about him? He had the light of God in his soul, and it is on those lines that he is working. So he would be subject to every authority for the Lord's sake (see 1 Peter 2:13).

Ques. What are the better things you referred to?

J.T. "Blessed be the God and Father ... receiving the end of your faith, the salvation of your souls" (verses 3 - 9). There you have a lot of precious things put together, reminding you in their fulness of Paul's condensation of what is so blessed in Ephesians. How much these people had already! But only in acceptance of their then present circumstances, the second chapter we have, "To whom coming, a living stone, cast away indeed as worthless by men, but with God chosen, precious, yourselves also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Jesus Christ". That is far beyond anything that Solomon had.

Rem. And the Lord would use all the pressure to give us experience with Himself.

J.T. There is a remarkable condition now in the world, dating back to 1914. The people of God have come under these conditions. What is there in them

for us? God is working out the end, perfecting His work in us. They are the occasion of our coming into these most blessed things. God is using all these things for the good of His people now. We might aspire to getting on in this world. God gives us the opportunity to have better things. The value of a man is more precious than gold. The Lord Jesus is God's standard.

Ques. Should not exultation mark us?

J.T. It would arise from the knowledge that Peter's epistle gives to us. Believers are linked up with the whole history of God's ways. The Spirit of Christ was in the prophets. The Old Testament prophets who suffered had to accept that the things they spoke of were not for them, but these great things are for us. It says that the angels desire to look into them. Think of that! They would not desire to know what statesmen were doing; but these things are so great that they desire to look into them. We find that the Lord Jesus Himself has suffered, "being put to death in flesh, but made alive in the Spirit, in which also going he preached to the spirits which are in prison, heretofore disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was preparing". He went back beyond the flood and He preached Himself. We are linked up with all that. The gospel has been preached to those that are dead. How faithful God has been; His love has been active all the time by the Spirit of Christ, "To whom coming" involves committal, and then there is the actual structure going on. There is a basis for the new system. Then there is the living condition of things, actual living stones; and then the holy priesthood. We are brought into the best, but God has His part in it, His own part.

Rem. This would be offering "an oblation in righteousness", Malachi 3:3.

J.T. Yes, it would; and all the preciousness of Christ is our portion. We were looking last night at Matthew 9. What a thought of Christ! The Bridegroom; a bridegroom is a man at his best. So it is all His preciousness. You would turn from all else; Peter is already there, so he says, "To whom coming". Pressure is in view of enlargement, and all these meetings show that God is turning things to account. What are we coming to? The "living stone" is the positive thing before God. "To whom coming". That is the positive side; the blood is to deal with what is negative, so to speak, but here is the positive thing.

"But ye are a chosen race, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a people for a possession, that ye might set forth the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness to his wonderful light; who once were not a people, but now God's people; who were not enjoying mercy, but now have found mercy". All this is very stimulating. It is what we are; not what Christ is only, but what we are. Whatever the world thinks, that is what the saints are. We begin to feel we are of value; the saints are a possession. Stephen corresponded with the Lord. All was allowed. Today many are suffering seriously, but the government of God makes a way for the testimony. At Shinar God scattered men over the face of the earth, but then the Spirit of God records again the posterity of Shem. It is given again. The tower would block the line of the testimony. The more concentration there is in the world the harder it is for the testimony, but God makes a way through. So in Jeremiah 29, they are to stay and build houses. It is the ordering of God, and then in seventy years He will act. They have to accept the captivity.

Rem. We have received good at the hands of the Lord, and shall we not accept the evil?

J.T. "For thus saith Jehovah: When seventy years shall be accomplished for Babylon I will visit

you, and perform my good word toward you, in bringing you back to this place. For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith Jehovah, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you in your latter end a hope. And ye shall call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you; and ye shall seek me and find me, for ye shall search for me, with all your heart, and I will be found of you, saith Jehovah. And I will turn your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith Jehovah; and I will bring you again into the place whence I have caused you to be carried away captive", Jeremiah 29:10 - 14.

SONS OF THE KINGDOM AND SONS OF LIGHT

John 12:36; Romans 8:14

What has pressed itself upon me, dear brethren, is the thought of sonship, not so much in the sense in which we usually speak of it, as in the last verse read where we are alluded to as sons of God, but rather to dwell on sonship of certain institutions or principles or qualities of God, in which the word or idea is somewhat figurative, the idea of sonship. But nevertheless the idea is there, and it is to make the things alluded to practical, and in so far as may be, experimental. Hence you have in the gospels, among other references, sons of the kingdom, sons of peace, and here in John, sons of light. Doubtless most of us have taken notice of these expressions and profited by them, but I am sure that they will bear further attention or enquiry on our part, because we are all prone to be theoretic, and terms which are intended by the Spirit of God to be always pungent, both in our minds and in our words, are apt to become crystallised and meaningless.

So these references which I have made convey what is most practical. First, sons of the kingdom, in Matthew 13, as you will remember, are spoken of by the Lord as sown. You will recall that in that chapter there are something like seven parables, the first referring to the sower of seed, but the seed is called the word of the kingdom, the word of it. That is what is presented in ministry; the idea or thought of the kingdom conveyed intelligently in spiritual power by ministry alludes to the testimony of the Lord as Son of Man, and that of His apostles -- the word. Then we have another parable, usually called the parable of the tares or darnel, in which the seed is persons, not simply words -- an important distinction.

The word of the kingdom is sown and there are different growths, some permanent and many others of no value; but the parable of the tares implies that persons are sown. In other words, to be simple, an evangelist goes into a town and preaches the gospel and gets a convert. That is one operation of God, and that convert is sown in the place, otherwise there will be no representation of the kingdom. The word of the kingdom enters his heart and enlightens him, and he becomes a believer, as in Matthew, in the testimony of the heavens, the kingdom of the heavens. Now he is sown himself in the place, not as the word of the kingdom but as a son of it; that is the word used. The good seed are the sons of the kingdom.

Now I refer to that initially, because that is so important if we are to have representatives of the truth, valuable representatives of the truth in localities. We must not only have the word presented, but the sons of the kingdom set up there; they are sown, so to say. Now that would mean that they take root in the soil, in the divinely-prepared soil, and they bear fruit. As sons of the kingdom they would be persons who have some knowledge of heaven; the light of heaven has shone into those that are delivered from the earth. They cease to be politicians; they cease to be material for this world; they are secured for God's world, but for the moment they are set in the place as sons of the kingdom. They are set down in the power of it, so that as they walk in the street, as they do their business, as they keep their house, and so forth, they set out the thing in the place. Another thing that comes out in him or her is that he or she is a son of the Highest, according to Luke. According to Matthew he or she is a son of his Father, not simply of his Father, but of his Father who is in the heavens. That is to say, there is a heavenly touch with him. Luke says, "the highest", which is great moral elevation. That man

is no longer a socialist, nor does he belong to any of those unions or the like that go to build up this world; he is out of society. He is a son of the Highest, that is, of elevated matters. It is not simply that I belong to heaven; the point is, I am a son of what is high, the Highest, what is of God of course, but the Highest. There is no dignity in the world, therefore, that can eclipse me once I get hold of that. I am delivered from all human greatness, and greater than all, I am a son of the Highest. That is not a mere abstract thought. According to Luke we get a list of things that mark persons who are sons of the Highest: they love their enemies. That is the idea of the Highest, rising above the sin, the opposition that may be. They bless them that persecute them and that curse them, and they pray for them that despitefully use them. That is an entirely new thing; that belongs to the Highest; that comes from the Highest; I am a son of the Highest.

Well, there is another thing, and that is a son of peace. Luke makes much of the sons of peace. He uses it in the singular. It has to do with the formation of local companies, of an assembly in a town like this or in other towns. The missionaries went out two by two according to chapter 10; thirty-five pairs were sent out by the Lord, and they were to go into every city and place where He was to go, meaning that there would be those in these places as He came there who would receive Him; and as entering in they would enquire if a son of peace were there. You can understand that a son of peace in Luke would include all these things that I have been speaking of, a son of the kingdom and a son of the Highest and one that lives at peace with others, that knows something of the peace of God. How can I be a son of peace if I do not know the peace of God? "Being justified by faith, we have peace with God". That is one thing; but in deliverance, which

goes further, the peace of God garrisons the heart, "In everything, by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses every understanding, shall guard your hearts and your thoughts by Christ Jesus". That is a son of peace. He has acquired that by prayer. He is not quarrelsome. You cannot have an assembly according to God with quarrelsome persons. These missionaries of Christ came to a town and a quarrelsome person is there, whether it be a professor, or a confessor, or nominal believer in Christ, he would not be a son of peace; they would leave, for their peace would not rest there. Their peace rests where there is a son of peace. The peace of the two missionaries of Christ would be the peace of God. He would have a resting-place. Think of that, that in a town there is a resting-place for the peace of God, for the son of peace. You have, therefore, in these features material for local assemblies, that is to say, companies of people in which the thoughts of God are vested, in which they lodge, in which they are cherished, and in which the all-varied wisdom of God is worked out. You can see the magnitude of it, and that is the importance of these features, sonship of certain institutions or qualities or principles of God that have come in in Christ. They are intensely practical.

Well now, in John we follow on the subject, because he presents his side of it. He speaks about sons of light, and I wish to speak about sons of light particularly. John's ministry, as has often been said, but not too often, has reference to our own time, but it also had reference to the time it was written. It had always a place but it has a peculiar place now, having in view the great increase of darkness. We are living in darkened times, a time in which the works of the devil take that form, "The universal lords of this darkness", as Paul said. How feelingly we can speak

of it if we have been walking in any way with God for many years, especially in this last century. How feelingly we can speak of this darkness, not that darkness; and it all issues forth from the universal lords of this darkness. One may be an instrument of it in a large way or in a small way, but it is all to one end, to darken the mind of the saints.

Now John has that in mind and he makes a great thing of believing what is presented. Everyone who reads his gospel knows that it is peculiar, very different in character, not in substance, but in character, from the other three. He stresses the thought of divine Persons. It is a question of the revelation of God, or as I should say, the declaration; that is the word used in verse 18, the declaration. The declaration is to be understood as different from the revelation. The word 'revelation' is the apocalypse, that is, the unveiling, the unrolling of the veil, so that you look in and see what is there. That is the idea. The features revealed would be Persons. The declaration is that God is brought out. God is brought out to us; that is the force of the word, not that a veil is removed that we may look in, because the creature cannot look in, the creature is not capable of looking in for himself, "No one has seen God at any time". John said in verse 18 of his first chapter, and that was written long after the resurrection and ascension of Christ, long after the advent of Christ here, "No one has seen God at any time". In his epistle he repeats it. No creature is capable of seeing Him in His essential Being. So that it is not a veil removed, but He is brought out to us. In John 1:18 He is brought out by the Son, the only-begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father. Mark, it is not 'was' in the bosom, but "is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him". The declaration is past but the position is present. It is eternal. He is brought out in His Person so that He should be seen by us,

brought within our range so that the creature should understand. That is what is in view. What John calls for is believers in truth, not mere nominal belief, but genuine heart belief; hence you find in some cases there were believers, but Jesus did not trust them. That is another feature of John's gospel: there are those whom the Lord has no confidence in. He did not commit Himself because He knew all men; He knew what was in man.

So that the first sign is that He manifested His glory. What is the effect? The effect is that the disciples, already believing, believed on Him. That is another thing John has in view, true believers in Christ. So in the verse I read, "While ye have the light, believe in the light". Believe in the light. Now the light, whatever it may be, whatever comes from God is to be believed, and let no one turn a blind eye. I was going to say a deaf ear, but it is a question of the light to the eye. It is a serious matter to turn a blind eye to divine light so that you do not see. A person says, 'I do not see it'; that is, you are blind or you are wilful. The first thing you get in this gospel in regard of the Spirit is that John saw Him, "I saw the Spirit", he says, "descending and ... it abode". That is the point. Indeed, He that sent him to baptise told him, "Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit". Hence the importance, dear brethren, I do urge with feeling, to keep your eye open, your spiritual eye, and keep it single. Matthew says that the lamp of the body is the eye, and if thine eye be single, or simple, thy whole body is full of light, full. A very remarkable figure that! You know there is not one bit of darkness when the eye is single, but if thine eye be evil thy whole body is darkness, thy whole body. You may profess to be a believer on Christ and in fellowship, even pretending to be defending the truth and

yet every movement of yours be darkness if your eye is not single. It is not only what people say, but what they do, where they go, all is darkness, the Lord says according to Matthew's record. Then, "If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great the darkness!". So it is, alas, with our brethren in bodies around who have left the path of light. How great is the darkness! Better if they had never been out. That is a solemn warning to us to keep a single eye, for if the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is it! I become an imitation. That is the worst kind of opposition to the truth; the worst kind of darkness is imitation.

Well now, John, as I said, is stressing the idea of believing whatever is presented as light from God, while they have it; it may pass away. Immediately after the Lord said these things He hid Himself from them. How solemn that the Lord should hide Himself! He hid Himself, and then the Holy Spirit begins to speak about the announcement from Isaiah that they could not believe. A most terrible thing! If the light is refused, judicial darkness sets in. Isaiah says, "Who hath believed our report?". The evangelist goes on to it, "Lord, who hath believed our report?". What a word that is for our hearts! A report! In Isaiah 53 the Person of Jesus is set before us in such a beautiful way, and the Spirit of God says, "Who hath believed our report?". Then it says that they could not believe because He had blinded their eyes. Isaiah said it again. The second word is a solemn word. So that we cannot trifle with God and the truth. Judicial blindness sets in. Isaiah says again that they could not believe, for He had blinded their eyes that they should not believe. That is a solemn thing. I am only speaking of what is stated and to emphasise what John says, "While ye have the light, believe in the light, that ye may become sons of light". In the Authorised Version

the word 'children' is used. In fact, in all references to this the proper word is 'sons', and anyone can see that the word 'son' used in its full bearing is more than a child. Although we may call a male child a son, the scriptural use of the word 'son' indicates more than a child. It means that there is development. It means that there is something characteristic in him of that of which he is son in a developed form. So that the thought here is that we should be developed as believers in the light, developed in the light and living in it, which would mean that if one enquires as to where I am and why I am there, I can give an account of myself. Hence I am enlightened and my walk and ways correspond.

Well now, to make the thing simpler, I may illustrate from John's gospel sons of the light. The first one I would bring forward is the well known woman of Samaria. She is a son of the light in regard of her body. She left her water-pot as has been often remarked. She brought it to the well to fill it up and carry it back, but she did not do that. After Jesus had talked with her, her soul became illuminated. She had met the Son of God and she left her water-pot. He had been talking to her about living water and what it shall be in a person that believes; one who had drunk of it shall never thirst again, and it shall be in him a well of water. That was light to her soul in regard of her body, and she left her water-pot and went away to the city, and there were results. She spoke to the men and they were affected. She was a son of light in the place. Now that is a very simple thought. It is, as I may say, the initial idea of being a son of light, that one understands the importance of one's body. The epistle to the Romans points out to us how the gospel affects one so that his body is presented a living sacrifice to God, and that means purified inwardly to make room for the living water. That is the inward thing involving all

the automatic organs in the body, so that the body, the organs themselves, begin to act. I am not merely intelligent, I have affections, feelings and compassions with that. All become active and controlled by the Spirit, so that we live. As Romans teaches us, the body is dead physically, but the Spirit is life. The body is dead on account of sin. All that it was connected with has ceased to operate. Instead of that, the working of sin, the Spirit is life within, and in chapter 12 the body is presented as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable, and that is called intelligent service. I am a son of the light in regard of my body. I have that to present. That leads on to the worship of God as indeed the instructions to the woman involved. God is a Spirit. The first thing is that you present your body. She went to the city and left her water-pot as if she understood that her body was henceforward to be a vessel. I only touch on it.

The next son of the light can be said to be the nobleman of Capernaum, because God is no respecter of persons. The light comes to a poor outcast, and she becomes intelligent as to her body, purified to be used of God. Then we have the household, the nobleman as he is called; he becomes a believer in regard of his house. That is the next thing. The light is radiating in his house. He believes in his own house. His son is healed by the Lord Jesus. It is an important matter first to be son of the light in regard of my body, and then a son of the light in regard of my house, and then in chapter 6 you will remember what Peter says to the Lord when others, great numbers, were drifting away from Him. That is always happening, people turning away from Christ, walking no more with Him; what He says is too spiritual for them. The words that He spoke were spirit and life and many walked no more with Him. They turned back, and the Lord says to the twelve, "Will ye also go away?". Notice the word 'twelve' -- I may say the only allusion to

the official position on the part of the saints in John. "The twelve", he says. The use of the numeral as alluding to the selected apostles would be the testimony. It is not the idea of the testimony in a locality. Twelve is universal. Many of us are too local; others of us are too universal. We begin locally and then become intelligent and see that the testimony is universal. The woman of Samaria belonged to a town; the nobleman thought of his house, and he shone there. The twelve were taken up in relation to the testimony in its universal bearing. You know the fellowship has two features; the local feature and the universal feature. They must merge, the one into the other, otherwise the local becomes a mere congregational church, because in truth there is only one fellowship, and it has a local aspect and a universal aspect. Now the twelve would refer to the testimony in its universal bearing because they were to go into all the world. The Lord says to the twelve, "Will ye also go away?". One might say if they all went away what would become of the testimony? But the Lord can look after the testimony. But He says, "Will ye also go away?", as if it were possible for the leading men of the testimony to go away. Peter says, "Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God". What a wonderful word that was! There is a son of the light. He has got apprehension of the light, of the light in regard to the whole testimony. He is one of the twelve. What would hold John, or Peter, or what would hold Paul? Christ! He is the great attractive centre for all, "To whom shall we go?". The apostles were as dependent upon Him as we are. 'Where shall we go?'. "To whom shall we go?". There is none save One; He had words of life eternal.

Then the next great example is, I think, the man that had his eyes opened. He was a son of the light

in chapter 9 in regard of the works of God. Now that is a very important thing when one person is to be a testimony of the works of God: not only the work but the works of God should be manifested in him. An astronomer or a scientific man would testify to the work of God. The Lord does not say anything about the cause in chapter 9; He says that this man was not born blind because he sinned but that the works of God should be manifested. How great that thought is, that I am taken up as the subject of the work of God, the works of God. That is, the man in chapter 9 is the one that bows down and worships the Son of God. Every man that is the subject of the work of God worships God. "Dost thou believe on the Son of God?". "Who is he, Lord, that I may believe on him?". The Lord said, "Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he". He said, "I believe, Lord", and he worshipped Him. That is a son of the light in regard of the Son of God. How much we need that at the present moment. The enemy is darkening our minds whereas the Spirit of God would insist on Scripture, and Scripture speaks for itself. If we want to apprehend the Son of God we want to apprehend the first chapter of John. That is where it is set out, the Person of Jesus. This man said, "Who is he, Lord, that I may believe on him?". And he said, "I believe, Lord". How delightful to Jesus! They were both outcasts. That man was cast out of the synagogue and when the Lord heard that, He found him. He takes account of outcasts for the truth. Let us not be afraid of that, to be an outcast for the truth that the works of God might be manifested. He said, "I believe, Lord", and he worshipped Him.

Well then, to finish, the twelfth chapter is a sort of constellation of light. I suppose the stars would be alluded to. John is very astronomical in his references, although he was not an astronomer by profession,

but God changes things about, and John got to know far more than his teachers. He knew more about astronomy than Newton. He had the spiritual understanding: by faith we understand. I have no doubt his reference to the sons of light would be that, the stars. Daniel speaks about them too: "They that are wise shall shine as the brightness of the expanse; and they that turn the many to righteousness as the stars". That is a great thought. So you get a cluster, so to say. We read of the sweet influences of the Pleiades, and there are beautiful influences here in chapter 12, at the beginning of the chapter. We have a wonderful shining of Christ in chapter 11 where the glory of God and the glory of the Son of God shone, for this gospel would put the Son and the Father on equality: he that honours the Father honours the Son, and the glory of the Father and the glory of the Son shine together in chapter 11. It is a wonderful shining in chapter 11. No wonder we have a cluster of sons of light following in chapter 12. Bethany was the centre of the sons of light; they were there together. The thought enters into a local company of christians. Jesus came there to be glorified amongst them. He names the stars, He calls them all by name, those that shine.

So they made Him a supper. It is not the house of Simon the leper. Here He secured the company of sons; it is, "They made him a supper". It is a question of the spiritual setting; no one is saying anything. According to the record not a word is said to Jesus when He arrived. Not like chapter 11 where Martha came to Him and talked to Him on orthodox lines. We often do. She knew that at the resurrection her brother would rise at the last day. That was orthodox. The Lord says, "I am the resurrection and the life". He who is, and was, and is to come! John presents Him who is. Martha bowed and He said, "Believest thou this?".

She said, "I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, who should come into the world". Then she goes away to her sister. She got help; she was illuminated; and there she spoke. But when He came this time not a word was said by anyone, because the point is spiritual power, spiritual affection. It is a question as to whether we can sit still and let the love of Christ permeate our souls, and let our affections go up to Him, no speaking, not a word said. We ought to learn how to sit together in assembly in spiritual silence. I do not know anything more difficult myself than to sustain spiritual silence, but it belongs to the assembly. We read of silence in heaven for the space of half an hour. Think of the intelligences that are in heaven; they are made silent for half an hour. I know it has a prophetic meaning, but I am just referring to the fact that there was silence. So there is silence at Bethany. Lazarus sat at table, Martha served and Mary worshipped. The house was filled with the odour of the ointment; all was delightful spiritually; Judas breaks the silence, but I do not dwell on that. It is a group of sons of light: they know what to do, how to go and how to keep quiet when necessary; and the Holy Spirit pervades all. You will all remember how when the glory entered Solomon's temple the priests could not minister. The thing was so full: God was there. The enjoyment is not to be defined; it is to be enjoyed. But then I am speaking of the light that governed them, for they were sons of light. So, in this chapter John says, "While ye have the light, believe in the light, that ye may become sons of light". That is the point, dear brethren, if you are sons of the light.

So in Romans 8 all this merges into sons of God. What marks them is the consequence of what I am speaking of. They are led by the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God has entire control in our hearts,

as sons, to lead us into His presence. Those that are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. One would like to have said more about the sons of God. Indeed any one of these scriptures that I have brought forward would be quite enough, but I do not know that I am to be here to speak again, so I want to bring this subject briefly but comprehensively before you, so that in our localities we may shine in these features and be led by the Spirit, that we may know how to be in our local assemblies to be led by the Spirit. Where will He lead us? He has come out from the Father and He leads us in, and He hands us over to the great Minister of the sanctuary; Christ is the Minister of the sanctuary, of the true tabernacle pitched by the Lord and not man.

GLORY IN TESTIMONY AND PRIVILEGE

Revelation 21:9 - 11; Ephesians 3:14 - 21; Romans 5:5; Romans 8:14, 15

J.T. I was thinking there are two lines running from the outset when the gospel is received: one toward glory in the assembly for testimony, for shining out; and the other for glory to God in the assembly. In Revelation 21 the assembly is carrying the glory of God and her light most precious, that is she is coming down, evidently to illuminate the coming world. The other line is the family line, so that it is glory to God. The Father's Spirit is mentioned in Ephesians 3. In chapter 5 of Romans we have the Holy Spirit shedding abroad the love of God in our hearts, and in chapter 8 the Spirit of adoption crying, "Abba, Father". It may be we shall be helped to see how the Spirit operates on both lines. In 2 Corinthians 3 and 4 we have the glory of the covenant, subsisting glory -- the ministry of the Spirit subsists in glory -- and that glory working out in chapter 4 as the glory of God in the face of Jesus. That is the line it takes. In Ephesians it is the family line, so that it is the Spirit of the Father; the passage in Romans 8 would link on with that, that the Spirit of God will lead in that direction. In Hebrews 2:10 we are told that God is leading many sons to glory. In Romans 8, "As many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God", and then we are told that we "have received a Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father". I thought we would get help perhaps in looking at those lines of truth, both converging on the assembly, the one the family line and the other working out in testimony here.

F.S.M. I was thinking the one would be the shining for the shining forth. God is glorified in the

shining forth, but the other is for the gratification of His own heart in affection; one testimony and the other affection.

J.T. That is what I thought.

F.S.M. You were putting emphasis on the idea of glory in the present. I feel for myself I have lost a good deal by regarding it purely as a future thought; but the idea is you awaken to the thought of the glory of God in the assembly now. It is not merely something we are to enter into at the rapture.

J.T. So that now is the time of the investiture. The assembly is intended to be the residence of the glory and to be invested with it; in principle she has it already. So the Lord's supper makes us familiar with the thought.

-- .B. "Much more that which remaineth is glorious".

J.T. Tell us more about that.

-- .B. I thought it would mean the thing being present, glorious now in the assembly.

Eu.R. What is the idea of glory?

J.T. I suppose it is the shining out of what God is; He is the God of glory and the Father of glory. The God of it, I suppose, would mean that He disposes of it; the Father would be the source of it. Then the Lord Jesus is said to be the Lord of glory. Then the question is, What is it? It seems to be what a Being is, what God is in the expression of what He is. It is in the expression you get radiation or display. So that the Spirit of God awaited Stephen to use that expression, "The God of glory"; there was some expression of it in him. It was not a mere abstract or technical thought; the man who was saying it was expressing it.

F.S.M. It was shining forth in him.

J.T. Yes. It awaited Jesus, I suppose, for the shining out; there is the expression of what God is in His varied attributes in Christ, I suppose, taken

together, these are what are in mind in glory. But then we are said to be "vessels of mercy"; it says, "That he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he had before prepared for glory". The idea is that you have a great realm of beings capable of receiving and showing off glory, radiating the thing in the vessels, the aggregate of that being in the assembly. "Having the glory of God" would allude to the saints viewed as the city, each being a vessel of mercy fitted for glory; the riches of His glory shine upon us who are vessels fitted, the word 'vessels' alluding to what is usable, what is available for that purpose.

F.S.M. Would it be at all a parallel thought that the tabernacle was a vessel being prepared, or fitted, for the glory, and when it was complete the glory filled it? Is it suggestive of the assembly in that sense as that which can contain the glory?

J.T. That is what I was thinking, that the vessels were there. In principle, Abraham was a vessel of mercy fitted for glory, but you get no collective thought till you come to Sinai. Abraham was taken out to look at the stars, and one star differs from another in glory; that is, they are not viewed as a collective thing, each one has his own glory, and star differs from star in glory. But Abraham would be one of those, and so would Isaac, and all the men of faith; there would be the radiation in each one of them. Wherever faith was, there was some reflection of glory. For instance, Gideon says to the kings of Midian, "What sort of men were they that ye slew at Tabor? And they answered, As thou art, so were they; each one resembled the sons of a king", Judges 8:18. There was glory there. Well, he says, they were "the sons of my mother"; that would mean she had some idea far beyond her husband in those sons. They were like sons led to glory. I think that all the men of faith were that. But when you

come to Exodus, you get the collective thing, and what is meant there is not, I believe, our eternal relations in sonship, but our relations in the body, as doing the will of God, as keeping His commandments. There is glory shining out to anyone doing the will of God, keeping the commandments of God, for that is the basis on which the whole physical system is set -- "He spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast". It is a question of things being under God, His will; and I think the first thing in regard to vessels of glory is that the tabernacle represents those who provide the material. They were all subject; every item in the tabernacle is in its place under Moses. Aaron is not officiating at all, but Moses represented the authority of God, not sonship, although sonship is in Exodus; it begins with that. "Let my son go" is a collective thought; to reach that there must be the keeping of the commandments of God, the entire submission to His will, and having something; everyone brought something.

F.S.M. It says seven times in Exodus 40, "As the Lord commanded Moses". Obedience was the basis of it.

J.T. That is what I was thinking. That is the first thing as we sit down together that we are here keeping the commandments of God, each in his place. God sees that is suitable for the wilderness where everything is contrary to the will of God, that there are those who are together meeting according to the will of God; it is morally the greatest thing in a world of lawlessness.

-- .S. Do you connect that with Romans 5?

J.T. Yes. We rejoice in hope, for there must be that basis of righteousness and carrying out the will of God.

Ques. Would the walking worthy of God who has called us to His eternal glory have any bearing on that?

J.T. That is the great idea. Exodus is the great type for that, showing us how the saints are not only moving individually, but together, so the only wood in the tabernacle is acacia. It is not only the saints in their eternal relations, but it can carry the gold. When all is set up and anointed, all functioning, God says, so to speak, 'That suits Me', for the bearing of the assembly in that setting is toward man, a vessel here for the will of God, "By the which will", it says, "we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all", Hebrews 10:10. So that the glory is there, and that would be particularly at the present time. It is on a moral basis. When we come to Solomon's temple we have a variety of woods, and there is the glory filling the temple and beautiful unity in singing and music. God's mercy enduring for ever, His sovereignty; all is set up on that basis, and the glory fills the thing. It has relation more to the saints as sons in their dignity.

F.S.M. So you get adornment there, and beauty and sweetness of singing.

J.T. Yes, you feel you are on a high level. When you come to Revelation the thought is singers harping with their harps in heaven. I suppose that is the most exalted idea in singing. Harps seem to be the only instrument of music mentioned there, and there is a company on earth able to learn that song. I think the idea is the extreme refinement in the heavenly song. It is well to see what a vista opens up to us. We have to take into account that we are the persons, "He that hath wrought us for the self-same thing is God", 2 Corinthians 5:5. We are vessels of mercy fitted for glory; it is in us that God is working out all this, whether it be the line towards testimony in the millennium in Revelation 21, or towards Himself eternally, as in Ephesians 3.

F.H. Would the psalmist have this in view when he says, "Let the saints be joyful in glory", and

then "the high praises of God", as following it (Psalm 149)?

J.T. Quite so, the last book of Psalms is full of it, from Psalm 107 to the end.

Ques. Would you say a word as to John 17, where the Lord says, "The glory which thou hast given me I have given them, that they may be one, as we are one"? In what connection does that stand?

J.T. I think that would be the glory of sonship; the Lord gives us that glory. That is the unity of the Father and the Son, a very exalted thought. He speaks of the glory that He had with the Father before the world was, that is, a glory belonging to Themselves alone; then He speaks of the glory conferred; that is, I think, what we share in. The glory that He had with the Father before the world was was not sonship; it was peculiar to Himself as a divine Person; He does not impart that to us. It is the glory of sonship we share in.

-- .B. "God, minded to show his wrath and to make his power known, endured with much long-suffering vessels of wrath fitted for destruction ... that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he had before prepared for glory", Romans 9:22, 23. Why does it say "before prepared"?

J.T. The word 'before' there would allude to counsel, I think, but it is a component idea to what you get in Ephesians 2, the good works "which God has before prepared that we should walk in them". Probably the allusion is to the life of Jesus here, the idea of good works would work out there, but they are prepared for us to walk in. Here we are prepared for glory, working out from His counsels, He has it in mind.

F.S.M. With regard to the city having the glory of God, would it suggest it must have acquired it? There must have been some specific operation of God

a bring to pass a vessel that could be spoken of as having the glory. Is that going on today?

J.T. That is what I was thinking. I believe the glory of God alluded to would be the glory of the new covenant.

F.S.M. The thing ripe for display.

J.T. Yes, I think that is the idea, it is what God is in love working out in us. One can understand how it works, and that the apostle speaks of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ that is being caused to shine into our hearts for the shining forth. Evidently he is speaking about the glory of the covenant.

F.S.M. Yes, chapter 4 follows the third.

J.T. Quite. That glory is being effected in us by the Lord the Spirit. He is viewed there mediatorially, that is, He is the mediator of the new covenant. He has brought us to look at the glory of the Lord as in His face, as it were, and thus we are changed. It is not simply by the look we are changed, there is an effective work of the Lord in the thing -- "even as by the Lord the Spirit" -- and I suppose that would be the investiture that is proceeding from glory to glory. So that it enters, I believe, into our assembly meetings peculiarly, how the Lord serves us and how we take on glory, so that we are more glorious after the meeting than before.

-- .P. It becomes treasure to us.

J.T. Yes. The allusion there is to Gideon's torches. It emphasises that it is not in the future; is working out now, we are becoming accustomed it.

F.S.M. To revert to Stephen, is it not beautifully demonstrated in him? He was characterised by looking; he looked into heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus. The result of that is he was able to bear glorious witness, and the spirit of Jesus was in evidence in him.

J.T. There was the face of an angel, too, to remind them of heaven; but then, as we go on in his speech, what ground he covers, from Abraham down! He touches on the most high note: God dwelling not in temples made with hands, suggesting that all this glory is in a greater residence than that, and the final exhibition in him, the glory is seen, not only in his face, but in him -- that is, he corresponds with Christ in death, kneeling down and praying. What glory there was there! Praying for his murderers; love overcoming that murderous state of things.

F.S.M. May I ask further as to whether glory is that which distinguishes one person from other persons, and is the outstanding feature that at once comes to mind when that person is mentioned? Is it some distinct character that makes that person outstanding?

J.T. I think that is right. The stars are used as typical of the saints in that way, one differing from another in glory, all glorious, but there is variation, a wonderful thought! What we were saying yesterday comes to mind forcibly, as to all the tribes being mentioned; each of the tribes has some glory. It is the universal glory, but in variation.

Eu.R. They would shine on the breastplate, each in its own glory.

-- .P. Tell us something about what we have in Ephesians 3, the all-various wisdom of God seen in the assembly.

J.T. What a vessel it is that even angels see that. How it comes back to us now, in the making, as it were, of vessels of mercy: the all-various wisdom of God must enter into the glory that is there.

-- .P. That is the wisdom of divine grace shining out in the assembly.

J.T. Yes. Nothing, in a way, brings out what the assembly is more than that, the all-various wisdom of God seen, as it says, "In order that now to the

principalities and authorities in the heavenlies might be made known through the assembly the all-various wisdom of God, according to the purpose of the ages, which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord". Then the prayer, "For this reason I bow my knees ..." The apostle is so weighted with that that he prays that the Spirit of the Father might operate, the Father "of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named".

-- .L. I was going to ask if, in connection with the practical bringing in of the glory, the discipline of the Father of spirits helped in view of the gold?

J.T. I am sure it does, especially in regard of holiness, for it is the holy city Jerusalem. In the passage we have read the word 'new' is not included. In verse 2, it is, "the holy city, new Jerusalem" in view of the eternal state of things, but in verse 10 it "the holy city, Jerusalem" in its bearing towards the coming world, the glory of God being there. So that I suppose the discipline of the Father of spirits would have in mind the working out of holiness, so that the shining is of that kind. It is a holy love, so the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. It is interesting to see the different titles the Holy Spirit receives in Romans. The first title is "Holy Spirit" in view of this, I think, the holy city Jerusalem, so that we are to be in His hands.

Rem. So that the tribulation and experience would come in as help on this line.

Ques. Would you say that power is necessary to take the glory on inwardly, which is the thought in Ephesians 3?

J.T. Well, it is; it is a question of taking on, whether I can take on. To use a figure, there are certain materials that will not take on certain things, and there are materials that will take on dyes and the like. Well, the glory in 2 Corinthians 3 is very much like that. We are in an environment of glory,

can we take it on? Judas was in that environment, the same as John, but he did not take it on. I suppose the apostles were all radiating it in principle, though they did not have the Spirit yet, but, if you had been in that circle, the Lord in the midst, what glory there was! Judas went out; he did not take that on.

F.S.M. Would that apply to local companies? I was thinking of the assembly, Christ's glory. As individuals take on the glory, so local companies can do so and become glorious in the Lord's account.

J.T. That is what I understand, so in taking the money to Jerusalem they were messengers of the assembly, Christ's glory. That is the idea, they took on the thing, it was not simply a question of the money, but of those who carried it.

F.S.M. It would greatly help us to have that in view.

J.T. Not merely meeting local needs, but operating at a distance. I believe that one great thought in all that instruction about giving is in view of the distance -- persons you have never seen.

Eu.R. It works out in love for all saints.

J.T. Yes, "All" in 2 Corinthians 3 would involve what is collective, the fruit of drinking into one cup, and the Lord Jesus getting His place as mediator.

Ques. Would we take on the glory after the breaking of bread as nowhere else?

J.T. I think that is the thought. It is a remarkable time of investiture there. It is what is in us.

F.S.M. So the heart is strongly emphasised in this prayer, "That the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts".

Rem. And "the inner man". It is most important what you say as to what is going on in the minds and hearts of the saints, that is where God is operating, so the apostle got down on his knees over this matter.

J.T. "The inner man" is a thought that covers the whole inner being.

S.S. So Romans would lead us into this glory.

J.T. Yes, we have all the elements there of the mystery which is mentioned at the end.

S.S. Does it not lead to the liberty of faith?

J.T. Quite so, and how He was "declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead". The spirit of holiness, that is the element to start with. That is to run through when the gospel is received, so the Holy Spirit comes out on that same line. He has in view the investiture of the saints with that glory. What can be more conducive to it than the positive thing, the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the Spirit? It is a mediatorial service corresponding with 2 Corinthians 3.

F.S.M. Is it in view of Christ dwelling in your hearts?

J.T. It is. It shows us the mediatorial service of the Son and the Spirit. We are baptised to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit; the Son and the Spirit operate mediatorially with the Father in mind. They have been pleased to take this place to bring about the state of things God intended. God retained in the Father His own distinctiveness and majesty.

Eu.R. How do you distinguish between our attitude of heart and mind as, in some measure, in covenant relations, and when the Spirit of sonship is free, crying, Abba, Father?

J.T. Well, the Spirit takes another form. The covenant line may lead this way or it may lead that way. It helps us towards the family line, but in testimony it shines out.

Eu.R. There is not, as it were, a cessation, and a new beginning in sonship, but the covenant love has freed us, and we can enter into eternal thoughts.

J.T. So that Romans 8 lays the basis for the family as well. I am amenable to the Spirit of God if He has been filling my heart in relation to the covenant, "As many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God", we are marked off as being led, and then verse 15 is to clarify that, "For ye have not, received a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father". We are amenable for the Spirit to act, but then we have the principle of His leading there.

S.S. Do we see the working out of the two in Stephen: one working out in testimony and the latter working out in regard of what was in him?

J.T. Well, he tells us many things, beginning with the idea of the glory, he himself the expression of it. We speak of these things as in some little way the expression of them. He begins with the glory. He does not go back to Abel. Hebrews 11 does, but Stephen does not; he is occupied with the more elevated thought of glory. He begins with the God of glory, and takes us on to Solomon; but then "the Most High dwells not in places made with hands". That suggests Paul's ministry, Paul coming in to bring in the house, that is, the residence of the glory. Stephen does not go so far as that, it was not the time for it, but he leads them to a point. "Being full of the Holy Spirit, having fixed his eyes on heaven, he saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, Lo, I behold the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God". He does not tell them about the glory; I suppose that is recorded by Luke by the Spirit, having in mind that the thing is there, that what he began with has an actual substance now and is visible to men.

Ques. Why does he say "the Son of man"?

J.T. I think he speaks as the minister exactly what should be spoken. He does not lead them inside; he tells them of the Son of man, meaning that God was about to operate on wider lines.

F.S.M. And his testimony was to the effect that the glory was departed so far as Israel was concerned, but he sees it in another place.

Rem. Very much like the wife of Phinehas. She says, "Ichabod", but the Spirit of God has in mind that the glory would be reinstated and Psalm 78 says it was.

J.T. That is a good connection. God honoured Stephen; he was a reflection of the glory so far as he could be at the beginning of his speech, but now he sees it in heaven. The counterpart of Stephen is Paul, who does not say he is the mediator of the new covenant, he is a competent minister of it, but Christ is the Mediator of it. Not that it was not there amongst the twelve, for it was, but the vessel was not yet formed, the full thought was not there yet, that is our position now. It is a marvellous thing that it is so, that what is going on today is the investiture of the assembly with the glory.

F.S.M. And, though we are but a few of the assembly in any given place, there is a possibility of taking on the glory.

J.T. Yes.

Ques. Did Paul take on the glory when the Lord appeared to Him and wrought with him?

J.T. I am sure he did. He said to the Lord, "What shall I do, Lord?"; that is glory. Look at that over against what had been in his mind, darkness, breathing out threatenings and slaughter.

Rem. He was consciously a vessel of mercy.

J.T. He was. Then he goes into the city and he takes on the glory, he is filled with the Holy Spirit.

Ques. Following, do you think, an impression of Stephen when he was minding the clothes of those who stoned him?

J.T. I suppose he got some impression there and was kicking against it.

F.S.M. Is this the same as we get in Revelation, a great and high mountain? Is that the position we have to be in if we are to see the glory?

J.T. Quite So. It is getting away to a great and high mountain. The same set of angels who saw the wicked Babylon character of the public body now sees it in its true setting, coming down from God out of heaven.

-- .P. Does Mary of Bethany take on the glory on the three occasions spoken of? She sat at the Lord's feet, with some sense of the glory of His Person and the value and preciousness of His word, in Luke 10. Then at the tomb of Lazarus, she gets a view of the glory of God, and of the glory of the Person who could bring resurrection in. Then the house is filled with the glory in John 12, a greater appreciation still.

J.T. A very good example. The man in John 9, too; the Lord finds him as he is cast out and says, "Dost thou believe on the Son of God?" Is he able to take that on?

F.S.M. So the assembly is composed of persons who, by the Spirit's power, are formed after Christ. They are Christ-like persons, and the more Christ-like we are, the more there is glory connected with the assembly.

J.T. So John 12, I suppose, helps. The Lord says there, after the wonderful scene alluded to, "While ye have the light, believe in the light, that ye may become sons of light". That is what was available to take on the glory, sons of the light; it is alluding to stars.

Ques. So does God seek in the assembly at the present time that which will be displayed without

any hindrance when the holy city comes down out of heaven?

J.T. That is what is going on. If we only take that thought on, we shall see how important our assembly meetings are. The Lord comes in on our side as the mediator of the covenant, as head of the assembly, and He serves. It is what is alluded to in 2 Corinthians 3, what He is effecting, the Spirit of the Lord as investing us with the glory.

Rem. It is a present formation; it is glory in heaven, but not something that is formed there after the saints are taken up.

J.T. That is the thought.

Eu.R. What is the idea of "riches of his glory", Ephesians 3:16?

J.T. We have it first in Romans 9, "That he might make known the riches of his glory"; then, in that verse you allude to, "For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named, in order that he may give you according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man". What a thought that is, that the service is according to that, a most exalted thought!

Eu.R. Does "the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" involve sonship?

J.T. I think so.

Eu.R. Would that glory here be akin to what John says, "We have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father", and should this bear on the latter part of our assembly service after the breaking of bread?

J.T. Exactly. The whole chapter is a parenthesis beginning with verse 2 of chapter 3. The apostle is dealing with the greatest thought, his own particular ministry, that is the mystery, and the weight of it,

as it were, diverts him. The parenthesis would mean that the thing is so weighing upon him that he goes the full length, and then tells us that he prays, and prays in the sense of bowing his knees, which would be great exercise. Then he alludes to the Father in verse 14, "our Lord Jesus Christ" may not be there, it is questionable -- it is very possible that the weight of the thought lies in "the Father ... of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named", that is, that Person in the Deity viewed in that way; God in that way as having to do with this great line He has before Him, glory in the assembly. So, if we leave out the words "of our Lord Jesus Christ", then it would read, 'For this reason I bow my knees to the Father, of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named, in order that he may give you according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man'; I would take that to be the Father's Spirit. The Lord had said in Matthew, speaking of times of stress and persecution, that "ye are not the speakers, but the Spirit of your Father which speaks in you" (Matthew 10:20); that is more on kingdom lines in Matthew. Both Mark and Luke say "the Holy Spirit". The Lord stresses the Father in Matthew, but here, I think, it is more the Father in relation to all the families in eternity, a grand and magnificent connection. It is a question of the one family He is dealing with now, that is the assembly. The Father is the predominant thought all round.

F.S.M. Would that be that the result of the Spirit's operations would produce an upward flow of response to the Father?

J.T. That is what I was thinking, that this section of Ephesians is the Father's matter and the family line. In Revelation 21 it is to shine out, corresponding with 2 Corinthians 4, but here I think it is what is going in to God.

Rem. Expressly for His own heart, the shining out of all He has wrought for His pleasure in display. If there were more of the features of the glory found amongst us, there would be more to go up to God.

J.T. Quite so. We are being formed for this now, particularly in our assembly meetings. The idea of preparation, glory to glory.

S.S. Does this suggest that sons take on the Father's spirit?

J.T. Yes, we are able to take on that much. Certain fabrics take on certain things. They take on a dye and then they take on another one, it is a question of the fabric, I suppose. The assembly is capable of taking on more than any other family.

Eu.R. Is "That ye may be filled to all the fulness of God" like taking on the glory in this setting?

J.T. Filling there, I think, would also carry with it stability, for how can we carry this save as creatures we are steadied -- "filled to all the fulness of God". Another thing is that it is "the assembly in Christ Jesus" here. "To him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages".

Ques. So are these various aspects of glory intended to produce movement?

J.T. I think so; it is glory to glory, there is no end to it, you might say.

Rem. The first aspect of glory presented to Abraham produced movement.

J.T. Yes; it does not say the glory appeared to him, it was the God of glory. It is Stephen who tells us that, for he is the other end of the line and he sees what God had in mind.

S.S. Would you say that Paul's ministry begins where Stephen's testimony ends, in the glory?

J.T. Quite so. What Stephen saw is worked out Paul. The assembly is invested with it through the ministry of the Spirit of God through Paul in the glory. "In Christ Jesus" -- the 'in' is a preposition

of power implying that the Lord has to say to all this in the glory. I think the force of the preposition is that there is power operative all the time; it is not merely fixed, but it is always operative.

F.S.M. He is the living Head.

Eu.R. And will He maintain this system of glory eternally?

J.T. "In Christ Jesus" means that.

Eu.R. And if we give Him His place in the assembly now He will maintain this service in the assembly.

J.T. Exactly. It is very doubtful whether any creature can take in the idea of eternity. We use the word, but when we are using the word, we are really thinking of time as far as our minds are concerned. No creature can take it in, so far as I see.

Ques. Would glory in the assembly be the full answer to God appearing to Abraham?

J.T. I think so. The great terminus is the assembly, the great residence of the glory. There will be glory in every family, but God is dealing with one family now, and that is what the apostle is speaking of, that God "may give you according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man".

OBEDIENCE AS PREPARING FOR THE GLORY (1)

Exodus 12:28; Exodus 15:22 - 27

J.T. This book ends with the tabernacle as the residence of the divine glory and movement consequent; all is linked with obedience, things being done as divinely directed, great stress being laid on this in the closing chapters. So it seemed as if we would be helped to trace the thought of subjection, obedience to the word of God, to see how the glory links on with us as thus subject. We are said to be sanctified "unto the obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ"; so the standard is high, and in order that we should reach it, it is necessary to begin at the beginning of the instructions which we may link with the verse in chapter 12. It is to be remarked, too, that Exodus is ministerial. Obedience, of course, is found in Genesis, but the ministerial side is not stressed there, but it is in Exodus, and the great minister himself, Moses, is subjected to much in the way of discipline to bring him to the attitude of subjection to the will of God. What appears at once in the exercise of his ministerial service is that the people were affected. First, in chapter 4: 28, it is said that: "Moses told Aaron all the words of Jehovah who had sent him, and all the signs that he had commanded him". They are affected by the ministry of Moses and Aaron, and then in chapter 12: 21 - 28, we have an epitome of the instructions Jehovah gave Moses as to the passover. Instead of giving them verbatim he epitomises -- the principle of ministry, abridgment and presenting things briefly -- and then we are told that they worshipped. "And the people bowed their heads and worshipped. And the children of Israel went away, and did as

Jehovah had commanded Moses and Aaron; so did they". We have the idea of ministry and the moral authority attached to it. So that the effect of divinely accredited ministry in Moses and Aaron is that it causes the people to worship in chapters 4 and 12, but we have added in chapter 12 that the children of Israel went away. That is what we might dwell on first. They went away. Moses and Aaron were not present. They received the instruction and went away and did all they were told to do. That is the principle that I think is laid down in this book, obedience existing even when we are away from the eyes of the Lord or the eyes of the brethren or the eyes of the ministers. It is the principle of obedience that continues even though there is no one watching or looking after us directly.

W.J.C. What bearing has the head bowed in worship? What does it signify? Does obedience flow out of that condition?

J.T. I think that is right. God is brought to us in the ministry by the Spirit, and what is said in the ministry in chapter 4 causes our hearts to be affected. Then again in chapter 12 the same thing is seen only we have added that the children of Israel departed and did what Jehovah had commanded Moses and Aaron, "So did they". The Spirit of God is stressing that; as left to themselves they are obedient.

A.J.D. Are you looking at Moses and Aaron as ministering servants?

J.T. That is what they are.

H.H. The ear is connected with ministry, "He that planted the ear, Shall he not hear?" Psalm 94:9.

J.T. I suppose the ear is the organ of reception of the word of God and is the root of obedience. Obedience is the outcome. Is that what you have in mind?

H.H. In these last days we need to listen to what the Lord is saying. The voice of the Lord now is a

matter of ministry. We are to hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

J.T. "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches".

J.S. Initially, does hearing come first?

J.T. I think so, "faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God". So that the ear is anointed. The ears of the priest were anointed. We have it constantly in the Scriptures, "Hearken, O daughter", Psalm 45:10.

J.S. Would receiving be another step in subjection? "They received the word with all readiness of mind", Acts 17:11.

J.T. Just so. Receiving, we are told, "the engrafted word which is able to save your souls", James 1:21.

A.R. Does this fit in with Romans 6:17? The apostle in writing to the Romans could say, "but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you". The form of teaching delivered to them was obeyed from the heart.

J.T. Form of teaching, yes. Paul's teaching.

Ques. Is there the thought of subjection in the Lord Jesus Himself?

J.T. Well, He says, Jehovah opened His ears morning by morning. You marvel at His saying that, but He did. He was not rebellious.

J.S. It speaks of the Son becoming subject in 1 Corinthians 15.

J.T. The principle right through is that the assembly is subjected to Christ, and the Son shall be subject to Him who is all in all. The principle runs right through into eternity. We are to be learning now.

A.J.D. Is it seen in the Lord at the age of twelve? He became subject to His parents.

J.T. He was subject; He always was. He is seen in the temple hearing and asking questions.

You can understand how the Lord would listen to the doctors and hear what they said, and ask a question now and again. You can understand how it would arouse interest in the temple, and then He is subject to His parents.

G.F. "He learned obedience from the things which he suffered".

J.T. A very touching thing. The point there is not that he was ever ignorant in the moral sense of things, but being God He could not learn obedience. As becoming Man He learnt it experimentally through suffering.

H.H. Would you not say Moses listened to God himself? Would that not come in, too? Would discipline be necessary to take in divine thoughts?

J.T. I suppose he represents that great feature. The number of times that is alluded to is impressive: "the Lord spoke unto Moses saying", that would mean that he had acquired an ear, because God spoke oracularly. Perhaps we are not much accustomed to that, but that was how He spoke to Moses. The principle of it is in Numbers 7:89, Moses went in to speak to Jehovah and "he heard the voice speaking to him from off the mercy-seat which was upon the ark of testimony, from between the two cherubim". That was the appointed way of divine communications; that is what is called oracular. One would require an ear to understand, so that one should hear aright. In hearing, Moses was responsible to convey exactly what was in the mind of God. So that he would have to have a careful ear to hear. I am glad you brought that up for he represents the great principle of hearing oracular communications.

R.A.L. Samuel was not accustomed to hearing.

J.T. Quite so. This is important. We were speaking of that the other evening in Brooklyn; that children, however well cultured they may be by their parents and laid on the altar for God's service,

the time has to come when they have to have an ear to hear what God says directly to them. Lest we think unduly of this boy, Samuel, it is said that "he did not yet know the Lord". One evidence was that he thought Jehovah's speaking was Eli's speaking. He mistook God's voice; he thought it was just Eli speaking, and God was about to reject Eli. It is rather discrediting to him that he mistook Jehovah's voice for Eli's voice. An important word for us, for we are apt to think God is speaking when He is not, and to think man is speaking when God is speaking to us. So we may miss much by not being accustomed to oracular speaking, "He that hath an ear, let him hear". It is that kind of an ear that can hear.

J.R.H. Reference has been made to Romans. Would you say we are defective in the teaching of Romans if we are not obeying the commandments?

J.T. I think we shall see that Romans is a great basic epistle; it is written in the most authoritative way. Paul is very pronounced as to his apostolic authority both in that letter and in those to Corinth. It is a question of ministerial authority which we are all prone to disregard. Some will disregard the thing that is said and others will disregard the person who says it. It is an old device of the devil to discredit the person, "All who are in Asia ... have turned away from me" -- not from the teaching; that is, it is personal. Those who had turned away from Paul would soon discredit his ministry; they would soon begin to question what God said if they turned away from Paul.

A.H.P. Is that why obedience is stressed?

J.T. It is obedience of faith in Romans, "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord", 1 Corinthians 14:37. That is to recognise the things themselves.

H.H. The Lord supported Paul. It was not just that Paul was feeling things himself. The brethren turned away, but the Lord supported him in the seven letters to the assemblies in Asia.

J.T. Quite so. All in Asia had turned away. The Lord says to John, Write them seven letters.

S.McC. Does not the heart, as suggested in Romans 6, obedience from the heart, play an important part in this? It says of Lydia, "whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul", Acts 16:14.

J.T. Not simply the things spoken, but spoken by Paul. There it is the speaker and the speaking.

S.McC. And the heart enters into it, not the mere outward bending of the head like the Pharisee.

J.T. Obeying from the heart, yes. Now this ministerial matter is well worth our consideration, so that we should be balanced in discerning what is of God. Paul very graciously and humbly said, 'Even if you are not ready to receive me, certainly do not set aside the commandments, because what I write are the commandments of the Lord. Give attention to them anyway; you are to do what is right even though we be reprobates'. It is important that the ministers and the ministry should be identified in our minds. Because it is not a bit likely that God would take up men and use them unless they are morally in the good of what they are speaking of. It is not a bit likely that He would support them unless they are right morally. So that it is well to keep the two things in our minds.

Ques. Would Samuel be a good example of one who moved along these lines?

J.T. I think he is. He did not yet know the Lord but Jehovah revealed Himself to him by the word of Jehovah. It was not merely a vision, it was an intelligible matter, God revealing Himself to His servant; and then we are told that it was known from

Dan to Beersheba that he was a prophet of Jehovah, and the confirmation of it is that none of his words fell to the ground. The words are identified with the minister. It affects the mind, the intelligence; that is what is needed.

A.B.P. Would you say that the repetition of the names: Samuel, Samuel; Saul, Saul; Martha, Martha; indicates the intense interest that the Lord has that we may hear?

J.T. I think that is right. Joseph told Pharaoh that the double repetition is that the thing is established by God (Genesis 41:32). Samuel has an established place in heaven.

R.A. Would the term the Spirit of God uses, "Children of Israel", speak of subjection? It is not the children that murmur, it is the people.

J.T. I think that is suggestive, children being the relationship to which learning is attached.

A.R. It is like a conference; Moses is the man who is doing the speaking, bringing forward the mind of God; the brethren leave and go to their houses and localities and work the thing out.

J.T. Quite so. They went away; that is where the test comes, as to whether the things are carried out.

W.B-w. Would John on the isle of Patmos be an example of good hearing? He heard a great voice and he took it down very accurately in the book of Revelation. Would that not illustrate proper hearing on the part of a minister?

J.T. I think that is good. It is said that he changed his position five times throughout the book, as if he would have to hear things from a different viewpoint in each instance. He evidently missed nothing.

C.A.M. When the children of Israel went away they did as Jehovah commanded Moses and Aaron. Would it not be right to feel that in going away from something that is the word of the Lord it must of

necessity be that a living impression is made on the soul; is not that largely bound up with the ministers?

J.T. I think it is. The ministers are very responsible. The epitome that Moses gave here in these verses 21 - 28 is seven verses in length. The previous part of the chapter is twenty verses. So that Moses reduces the instructions from twenty to seven verses. He gives the idea of ministry, that you are able to condense, and not only so but to add things. The minister is supposed to be spiritual, not merely repeating what he hears, but putting it into his own mould, and it pleases God, when the man is in the Spirit. So that he tells the people in seven verses what Jehovah told him in twenty verses and adds certain features besides. Then the people worshipped when he finished, and went away and did as Jehovah commanded Moses, not merely what Jehovah commanded. We hear it said often that it does not matter who says it, but it does matter. It is what Jehovah commanded Moses and Aaron. They are being signalised. The lesson for those of us who minister, or attempt to minister, is to put the thing rightly, not merely the repeating of words but presenting something that we have ourselves.

S.P. The apostle in 1 Corinthians 2:13, seeking their adjustment, speaks "not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit".

J.T. Quite so. "That the excellency of the power may be of God". It is Moses and Aaron that God has taken up. People say, What does it matter? But it does matter. Paul says, "That by me the preaching might be fully known".

C.A.M. Is it not important that the thing comes through men, or through a man?

J.T. Quite so. It is a ministry of authority. Miriam and Aaron said, "Hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by

us?" Numbers 12:2. This point is important because God is not going to be diverted. God has great pleasure in His vessels; they are His own handiwork. He has pleasure in what they are doing. He loves variety. He shows us that He has saints in different localities and He can speak through them. Paul says, "The Holy Spirit testifies to me in every city, saying that bonds and tribulations await me". What does it matter whether in cities or in fields? But it does matter; God is stressing what he has in cities. It is the temple character of things, not mentioning any names, but emphasising what He has in every city, the means of speaking by the Spirit.

A.H.P. He says "Enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do", Acts 9:6.

J.T. Quite so. He went into the city, that was the word, "and it shall be told thee what thou must do". It is a remarkable thing to be put under obligation, to be sent into the city and to do what he hears in the city.

E.P. It says they "went away". I was thinking of Paul's words, "as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much rather in my absence", Philippians 2:12.

H.H. Hence the importance of following on what Moses was saying here. If we get a defective start we carry our defects with us. What comes next as to killing the passover was to be rightly understood by the saints, and that was the result of listening to what Moses was saying.

J.T. Paul makes a point of getting the thing right, exactly as it is intended. In 1 Corinthians 14:6 he says, "And now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, unless I shall speak to you either in revelation, or in knowledge, or in prophecy, or in teaching? Even lifeless things giving a sound, whether pipe or harp, if they give not distinction to the sounds, how shall it be known

what is piped or harped? For also, if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself for war? Thus also ye with the tongue, unless ye give a distinct speech, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye will be speaking to the air". I think we ought to observe all that. Those who minister should speak plainly. They are to be intelligible and I think that those who are ministered to should see that they get the right thought. Do not go away with a wrong thought. It is a most mischievous thing; people go away and say a thing was said and perhaps it is something erroneous. Something that was not said at all that is being carried away. It would be very serious if they took up a wrong construction on this great matter of the passover.

Ques. Would you say that effectual ministry would be on the line of what we have in Nehemiah 8:8?

J.T. It comes into what we are saying just now, if we do not hear one another it is good to say so because if anything is of God it is worth hearing.

A.R. I was wondering if it was of interest to note that this word which comes from Moses and Aaron has a bearing on, and the effect of adjusting, the saints in their houses. Is there not a great test in this, if a word comes from the minister about what is going on in my house, whether I will go home and adjust my house in relation to the ministry?

J.T. Yes. It says here, "And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say to you, What mean ye by this service? that ye shall say, It is a sacrifice of passover to Jehovah, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt when he smote the Egyptians and delivered our houses". All that is very significant. The household principle is stressed in Exodus and this point before us is of great importance, getting things accurately and then identifying them. You say, They come from God. Yes, but we are to identify them with the persons

through whom they come. God attaches great importance to His vessels: "He is a chosen vessel unto me". He has pleasure in Paul in all his ministry. Some might say, We would rather hear someone else, but Paul says, "That by me the preaching might be fully known". God is not giving him up.

A.J.D. That is what would be authoritative.

J.T. Paul, knowing that the Lord had much people in that city, determined that they should be taught the word of God for a year and six months. It is coming through Paul. It is authoritative morally as the word of God and then there is the person used. He is divinely qualified. He had the ministry and the ministry takes character from him.

J.S. Luke gives his authority for writing his gospel; he was accurately acquainted from the origin with all things (Luke 1:3).

S.McC. The tendency at Corinth was to nullify the ministry by discrediting the minister (2 Corinthians 10:10).

J.T. Quite so; that was the way the enemy attacked at Corinth. They certainly did discredit the minister: "his bodily presence is weak". They could not soon get rid of the ministry, it had had too much effect there, but they aim at discrediting the minister. You can understand how that would affect a person listening to him.

H.H. They did not know what Paul had heard in the third heaven. It coloured his ministry. A brother's ministry is coloured by what he knows.

J.T. It would have entered into it. It would affect him. Hence the need for coming into the sanctuary, getting into the presence of God for the ministry. You have an outline, but entering into the presence of God about it will give character to it. You are able to abridge yet give enough, sufficient to affect people. This instruction in the previous twenty verses has been broken up by the Spirit of God, "We know in part, and we prophesy in part".

It is well to see that we should learn to be brief and concise in what is said. Moses is concise and yet he adds features that you do not have in the earlier part. He speaks about the hyssop and the basins, the vessels in which the blood was to be contained. All that is very significant. Why did he bring this in when Jehovah did not say anything about them? That is the power of ministry, because the Spirit of God being here in the minister you get thoughts from Him yourself.

C.A.M. It is remarkable about that; that is the proper way to amplify things. Do you not think this is emphasised all through the Acts of the Apostles, the way those men are moving?

J.T. So that in this connection Jehovah says to Moses, "Who hath made man's mouth?". If God made that wonderful organ, has He not pleasure in it? He has! He has pleasure in the speaking. Whether the minister is speaking to others of God or whether he is speaking to God of Himself, God loves what comes through man's mouth.

C.A.M. That is emphasised all through the Acts of the Apostles. I was thinking of what is brought before us in the end of chapter 15. It says that Judas and Silas were themselves also prophets, and then it goes on to speak of Barnabas and Mark.

Behind all these personalities is the background which God knows; we have to keep our eyes on that. Do you not think so?

J.T. Quite so; because heaven has part in these meetings, I mean spiritual meetings. Heaven is intensely interested, and has part in them, and history is made in heaven in all of these meetings. God has His vessels, every saint here is interesting to God. Everything that is said in subjection to the Spirit, God has His part in it.

A.J.D. Are these meetings an evidence of the love of Christ for the assembly?

J.T. They are a provision for the assembly, so that He ascended on high and gave "some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers". They are all of His own handiwork. He gave them, the assembly is endowed with them, those persons.

H.H. They are the evidence of the work of the Comforter. The gatherings of saints, like these, provide an opportunity for the Holy Spirit to add to His work in relation to each one.

J.T. I think they are peculiarly in relation to the Comforter. The word 'Comforter' is the same as the word 'Advocate' in the epistle. "Jesus Christ the righteous". This is a very important thing for us at these meetings. He is taking care of us down here. One who is alongside of us, in complete charge of matters. What sanctity, what dignity it affords to us! How we should comport ourselves in what we say so that all is in the power of the anointing. "He that establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, is God, who also has sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts". "For whatever promises of God there are, in him is the yea, and in him the amen, for glory to God by us". Think of that 'us', what it is in the mind of God! It is to bring out, first, the dignity of the brethren, that is, they are God's. He has sealed us and marked us off as God's; then, they are rich inwardly, they have in their hearts the earnest.

Rem. "Remember your leaders ... imitate their faith", Hebrews 13:7.

J.T. That is the past leaders, remember them, but there are the present leaders, "Obey your leaders and be submissive; for they watch over your souls". Submission as to those who have to give account. It is all one thing whether past or present.

Rem. The principle of obedience and subjection runs right through.

A.J.D. The elders are addressed here.

J.T. I thought we should see that it works on to the glory, God honouring that principle right through this book.

A.R. I was wondering if it is not important to see that the carrying out of this word that Moses is giving is done by calling the elders together.

J.T. Yes, quite so. They represent the intelligent, responsible, experienced element in the locality.

C.H.H. You were speaking of God taking pleasure in our speaking. The deaf man's ears were opened and "he spoke right", Mark 7:35.

J.T. The relation between the ear and the tongue is remarkable. The Lord groaned about that; such a terrible condition in that man! He could not hear or speak right. The Lord groaned and lifted up His eyes to heaven. He is so profoundly affected, that man is so deranged under the power of the devil. He touched the tongue and we have the Lord's own, exact articulation in that word, 'Ephphatha'. It is the actual Aramaic word. It is ever to remind us of the importance of this matter; the Lord's own accents are brought down to us in regard of this great matter of hearing and speaking.

Rem. When Paul spoke of himself to the Corinthians he said it was foolishness for him to do so. Is it not very humbling that the Lord sees fit to call this to our attention now?

J.T. They had compelled him, they were so opposed to him, these leaders.

C.C.S. It speaks of the hearing and the speaking, "Bow down thine ear, and hear the words of the wise, and apply thine heart unto my knowledge. For it is a pleasant thing if thou keep them within thee; they shall withal be fitted in thy lips", Proverbs 22:17, 18.

H.H. "Obey your leaders, and be submissive; for they watch over your souls as those that shall

give account". It says further, "Salute all your leaders, and all the saints". The thought of leaders is important.

J.T. I am sure it is.

H.H. There are the deceased ones, those gone before, who have been a very great help; but we have leaders now, not just one but many, and we have to give place to them.

J.T. We have to be submissive. The word 'submissive' is important because we have arrived in the history of the world at a democratic period, when the idea of leadership and authority is despised and set aside. So that we do well to see the trend in the world and to avoid it, to set ourselves against it. The point is to be submissive and obedient even to one another. Submit yourselves to one another, so that the principle comes right down to all the saints, that I am to be submissive to the brethren. "The children of Israel ... did as Jehovah had commanded Moses and Aaron; so did they". We shall come to this in another setting later.

W.B-w. In chapter 12: 50 you get that repeated.

J.T. Quite so.

J.S. The principle of obedience is being seen now in them.

J.T. Samuel says to Saul, "To obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams". The question of obedience arises in regard to the setting of Marah, that is, it is a question of state, state is being experienced. God brings about circumstances in our histories that affect us; they are intended to affect us and create a soil in us for His intent, whatever it may be. I believe that Marah here is bitterness, it creates a state in the brethren for divine impressions. So that it says, "The people murmured against Moses, saying, What shall we drink?". The waters were bitter. "And he cried to Jehovah; and Jehovah shewed him wood, and he cast it into the waters, and

the waters became sweet. There he made for them a statute and an ordinance; and there he tested them. And he said. If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of Jehovah thy God, and do what is right in his eyes, and incline thine ears to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of the complaints upon thee that I have put upon the Egyptians; for I am Jehovah who healeth thee", Exodus 15:25, 26. I was thinking of the state that is occasioned by the bitterness, God rolls in discipline upon us and causes us to taste what Christ tasted in death. You feel things and you are now ready not only for the commandment, but for the statute and the ordinance. The stress is laid upon the commandments, "Let him recognise the things that I write to you, that it is the Lord's commandment", 1 Corinthians 14:37. It is a fixed matter now. I thought we might see that in this section we have fixed things in the way of commandments, statutes and ordinances. They can be always appealed to, not only a word for the moment but a word that can be appealed to at all times, a word that goes through for all time, the divine word must go through. One is affected by the bitterness of death, the bitter waters, and how they have become sweet through the apprehension of Christ. His going into death was a question of the will of God, "Not my will", the Lord said, "but thine be done". The wood was "cast in". He entered into death on that principle. That is to be a fixed matter; it is not to be optional at all. You say, I do not think so, or, I do not see that. But there are things which are there, God has put them there -- right principles -- and it is for us to see that they are fixed.

A.R. We can only arrive at them in the measure in which we understand Christ here in manhood.

J.T. Exactly. Now we have Christ in manhood in the wood. We shall have Him more so in the

manna but here it is the wood. Why should it be wood, and why should it not have been seen earlier? It is God calling attention to Christ as if not discerned by men; He is there and God calls attention to Him. He is casting the wood into the waters.

S.McC. Does that not call into activity another sense? It is speaking in Exodus 12 but in our chapter here it is showing (chapter 15: 25).

J.T. I think it does. We have these two things, speaking and showing; and in Genesis 22 Jehovah showed Abraham the mountain. He did not mark it on the map for him. We are shown a thing as we reach it and as we are ready for it. The Holy Spirit showed that the way into the holiest was not yet made manifest; not only what is stated abstractly, but what is shown. Until Christ became Man there could be no entrance into the holiest; the way was not made manifest. So the wood was there; it does not say God put it there. God showed him the wood and he cast it into the waters and they became sweet. He knew what to do, he was not told to cast it in. The minister is there, knowing what to do.

E.P. Would that fit in at all with the second epistle to Corinth? Paul's exercise in relation to death and the thought of the dying of Jesus being brought into it?

J.T. Quite so.

E.P. Is this an additional thought to Exodus 12? It is not simply the commandments of the Lord but something that would reach the heart.

J.T. Exactly. This word 'cast' is to be noticed. Moses cast it in, as if Moses understood what to do. That was what happened. It was stressing God's will. These things are mentioned to create an impression. The ministers knew what to do.

H.H. There is yielding in the way of obedience. In the appreciation of the things of God, things are,

so to speak, sweeter to us. Death is still a bitter thing but where there is acceptance of the will of God and yielding the ear to the commandments of the Lord it is taken up in a way that is for God's pleasure.

J.T. The thorn in the flesh was sent to the apostle and he besought the Lord thrice about it, but the Lord says, "My grace suffices thee; for my power is perfected in weakness". So Paul says, "Gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me". That is the thing here, it is accepted.

A.R. Is the idea that in the minister bringing forward this thought of Christ in humanity, it is to affect the saints now so that Christ is seen characteristically in all of us?

J.T. That is the thing, to bring out this casting in by the hand of another. The Lord was absolutely at the will of God as in Gethsemane. He did ask that the cup might pass from Him, "Not my will, but thine be done". The will of God is fixed so that we might "prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God". "Most gladly therefore", I think there is joy in the acceptance of the death of Christ for He has been in it; now you are in company with the Lord ("planted together in the likeness of his death") when this happens. "There he made for them a statute and an ordinance and there he proved them". Now we should be immune from the complaints that are put upon the Egyptians. They are judicial, God accentuates them. There are terrible diseases, morally, amongst men and how are the saints to be immune? Backbiting, debating, envying, strifes, hateful and hating one another, in the world; God accentuates these things. They are diseases from which you will be immune in recognising fixed principles and abiding by them.

E.P. Do you think that each difficulty or crisis the Lord is pleased to pass us through should be an occasion of a statute, a recognised principle?

J.T. Every crisis where the Lord has His way a fixed principle is established so that a landmark is reached. You get that constantly in Scripture. So that that can never be opened again. Abiding by that we are preserved; it is a fixed thing.

S.R.McC. Did these complaints overtake the Corinthians because they did not recognise the commandments of the Lord?

J.T. That is the idea. The sort of complaints the world suffers from were creeping in at Corinth. That is abroad today in the religious world.

H.H. "I am the Lord that healeth thee" (Exodus 15:26) would indicate a change effected in the Lord's people.

J.T. How often you see it! Many of us here have been through these things for the last forty or fifty years. As we revert back to them we see the change that came about as God gave victory, a complete change takes place and we see His will prevail. The diseases are gone.

Ques. You regard the moral diseases worse than the physical?

J.T. God accentuates them, diseases that arise from the working of our wills. God makes me to feel that it is a disease and it is judicial. Our poor brethren who have ignored these crises are subject to these diseases, those who have departed in these crises. It is a most sorrowful thing.

Rem. A wonderful example in connection with Peter is that he could subsequently write of "our beloved brother Paul". Showing the disease was checked and that his constitution could throw it off.

J.T. I think that is good. Certainly there was a disease at Jerusalem. Peter went up there, after he saw Cornelius, and you see the state they were

in; some were Pharisees. They contended with him that he went in to eat with the gentiles, and they contended with Paul and Barnabas too, when they went up. The same disease was there; and I believe it went on until Paul went up there before he was in prison. There is not a word said about the saints lending any help to him at that time.

C.H.H. Would not a statute have to be clearly established, based on Scripture? We could not look back to what valued servants had written about certain things. A statute would have to have its foundation on Scripture.

J.T. Quite so. When a statute is made it is God manifesting that the thing is scriptural. Something has come out and it is a fixed principle; we did not have it before. We have arrived at a landmark, at something we have not arrived at before.

J.R.H. Have you in view the happy unity amongst the brethren accepting divine principles and seeing them as set forth in the Lord Himself?

J.T. That is what happens, "Most gladly therefore". There is happiness where divine principles obtain. God is with His people; there is a happy state of things, and we are immune from diseases. Take, for instance, the Galatians, who were diseased; legality had come in. And so at Corinth, they were diseased with pride and rivalry. "I am the Lord that healeth thee". As we set ourselves to take up the attitude of dependence and subjection for the carrying out of the will of God, we are immune from these things.

Ques. That happy unity costs us something, does it not?

J.T. And so it runs on, "By the which will we are sanctified". In that subject condition we are immune from these diseases that God has put upon the Egyptians.

A.R. If we are going to make progress in the wilderness, this is the first lesson to be learned. It is the first, is it not, after crossing the Red Sea?

J.T. Quite so. There is a fixed state of things in the statute and ordinance. The statute spiritually is a great fixed principle. Now you are impressionable. The Lord says to the people, You have suffered; you have tasted the bitter, and sweet waters; you have been brought into accord with Christ. Now you are ready for a fixed order of things, and christian fellowship depends on a fixed order of things. There are fresh things coming in all the time but it is a fixed order of things.

A.B.P. The statute and the ordinance divinely established in 1 Samuel 30 seemed to issue out of a crisis and there it was in direct opposition to the opinion first expressed. I wondered if that shows a statute issuing from a crisis.

J.T. Just so. The first opinion was expressed by the sons of Belial. We shall give every man his wife and children and let them go. Nothing to eat or to wear; but David says, that will not do at all. David sets up a statute, a fixed order of things. David says, Those that remain behind with the stuff, are to share alike with those that go down to the battle. A very comforting thing which really enters into meetings like these, because we are apt to forget our own meetings, to neglect our local settings in attending these meetings. If the Lord is deprived of His proper service while we are away, He is not getting any gain by our presence here. We ought to bear that in mind, that those abiding behind by the stuff share alike with those that go out.

E.P. What is the thought of an ordinance?

J.T. A statute is a great fixed principle, but an ordinance is subordinate to that, something that is less extensive. A statute is usually a greater and wider thought.

H.H. As our brother was saying, it is early in the wilderness. The wood cast into the water, would that not suggest the Lord's supper, so that in our local settings we would desire to see all those who belong to the Lord moving in relation to this?

J.T. There is a fixed order of things now in the Lord's supper. I believe the casting into the water of the wood would link up with Hebrews 10, "by which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ". 1 Corinthians brings us into accord with that. That brings Christ in as entirely in accord with the will of God. "We being many are ... one body", 1 Corinthians 10:17. I believe that fixed statutes and ordinances would bear much on the Lord's Supper, what supports our fellowship.

A.R. Do you think that would be worked out by chapter 14 and possibly the idea of special collections as a fixed principle seen in the epistle to the saints at Corinth?

J.T. Quite so. There are things that are fixed as attaching to assembly service publicly, but when we come to the spiritual side we look for freshness all the time, but there are public things that stand.

G.F. When the Lord said, "This do in remembrance of me" (Luke 22:19), was that a command?

J.T. "This do" is a request, but certainly I would regard myself as lawless if I did not do that. It has moral obligation attached to it. It is a request of affection by the Lord, but it is obligatory upon us.

C.H.H. Would 1 Corinthians 11:24 make it a command?

J.T. "The things that I write to you ..." (1 Corinthians 14:37), one great idea as included in the epistle. 1 Corinthians is a great statute enacted to govern us in our public position.

OBEDIENCE AS PREPARING FOR THE GLORY (2)

Exodus 16:9, 10; Exodus 19:1 - 8; Exodus 24:1 - 11

J.T. We left the last verse of chapter 15 to be considered at this reading. In chapter 16 we have the idea of the glory appearing. The thought is to weave the two lines in the book, that is obedience and glory and see how they run through and make way for the residence of the glory; that is, the glory coming in complacently and residing in the tabernacle, the component parts of the tabernacle being just representative of what is reached in the saints through grace, and the work of God, but all on the basis of subjection. So that the glory begins to appear. The glory is first promised in verse 7, "In the morning, then shall ye see the glory of Jehovah"; and then we have it in the verses read. Then in chapter 19, the great privileges arising from obedience in that the saints are to be on the ground of it, "A kingdom of priests, and a holy nation" (verse 6). In chapters 24 and 19 we have the idea of the covenant, that is, the covenant involving two, God and the people, a new kind of covenant. In Genesis, of course, it was on God's side only. God gave Himself to it, but here it is contingent on the people, too; it is dependent on obedience. In chapter 24 the great privilege of ascension is in evidence on the ground of obedience again. That is what we may have before us perhaps during this session.

H.H. Would you say a word as to the last verse of chapter 15, the twelve springs of water, and the seventy palm trees?

J.T. It is quite apparent that the two things come in together in relation to what we are speaking of in relation to obedience. It has to be borne in mind that these thoughts are all of a constructive character.

We advance steadily in the book until we arrive at the dwelling place of God from the standpoint of entire complacency, complacency through the obedience of the people.

W.J.C. They came to Elim on the principle of obedience. It was not an instinctive move on their part. They were directed there, apparently.

J.T. Evidently it is distinguishing what there is on their side. They are moving now in the light of a covenant, fixed principles, and of the statute and the ordinance, a fixed state of things, which as pointed out, enters into our fellowship. Our public position is marked by certain fixed principles which do not change. Inside of these principles, these walls, we have fresh things that 1 Corinthians does not develop. 1 Corinthians is on the line that we are on, the line of commandments, a great fixed thought. They should be regarded as one great fixed thought. The prophet or spiritual one would recognise it, too, and give up questioning and quarrelling with what exists, recognising that what the apostle wrote were the commandments of the Lord. The position is not subject to human innovation or variation; it is a fixed state of things and the saints move in that setting. It has been remarked that they come to Elim; there is movement right through here. In chapter 16 they journey from Elim to the wilderness of Sin. Then again in chapter 17 they journeyed from the wilderness of Sin and encamped at Rephidim; and then in chapter 19 they came to the wilderness of Sinai and encamped in the wilderness before the mountain. So there is steady movement on their part in relation to what is fixed according to God in the promised immunity from the afflictions, plagues, or ailments that were put upon the Egyptians.

A.R. Do the twelve wells of water suggest that they had arrived at fixed principles, and that all administration is carried out now in the power of

the Spirit of God? Does it not shut out man's mind altogether?

J.T. I think they are moving that way definitely to points involving a manifestation of grace. They moved in that way so that they came to Elim where these things were, seventy palm trees and twelve wells of water. We move, I think, where divine fixity is understood, governing us here in our public position. We move to points of advantage.

J.S. These movements are all to be under the authority of Moses, the leadership of Moses, are they not? "So Moses brought Israel from the Red Sea" (chapter 15: 22). Do you regard all these subsequent movements as under his leadership?

J.T. That would be the position, I think, as under the Mediator, in Christ as Lord having authority over us. Paul says we are "legitimately subject to Christ", 1 Corinthians 9:21.

H.H. What do you say as to the seventy palm trees?

J.T. The twelve wells of water is the idea of administration, a ministry of refreshment, and I should say the palm trees would be shelter, only connected with the same thing, as we view these two ideas from the standpoint of the New Testament. The seventy would be extending the thought, the numeral denoting responsibility plus the Spirit, I think. Seventy is ten times seven.

J.S. Exodus 24:9, 10 refers to the seventy as well as chapter 15. In Luke 9 you have the twelve apostles and in Luke 10 the seventy disciples.

J.T. I think that is a connection, the New Testament antitype, you might say: what the saints come to as affected by death, death and discipline having rolled in upon us in different walks of life, the bitter waters of Marah. That is, God is saying, 'Now my Son has gone into this in His death, and it is for you to taste it, so that you may understand'.

Then you see how it brings us into association with Christ, that is, the wood cast into the water makes it sweet. We have tasted the thing, and now it is made sweet by the apprehension of Christ as having been in it. So that we are impressionable now, and move on to where these positive things are administered, for we find in the twelve the administrative side of things involving love, and the seventy, involving shelter as well.

H.H. Would you say the man with the pitcher of water would take them into a privilege which they had not known before? They are moving now. I thought it might fit into the Supper. Something they had not known before.

J.T. Quite so. The man was carrying a pitcher of water, doing something for others. That is the result of the healing power of the Lord.

C.A.M. I think you made a remark this morning about this condition in the earlier verses you were referring to. Is productiveness the result of the healing power of the Lord as affording a place where there was something produced through discipline?

J.T. I think it is; the adjustment that results from the acceptance of discipline.

C.A.M. Jericho, I think, is called the city of palm trees. After all that had gone on in that place, it is a very remarkable thing that there should have been fruit there when the Lord passed through. The palm cannot, it seems, grow except where there is water. I suppose that accounts for the water being mentioned first.

J.T. That is obvious; it is what is called an oasis, but having this additional thought, seventy, the exact number; and God had to say to it. It was not an accident. So with the eunuch and Philip in the wilderness, the eunuch says, "Here is water", in the wilderness. Well, you would say, that was an

accident; but it was not. It was as much divinely ordered as Philip's presence there; Philip was a divine provision there; he was provided carefully by God, specially to be there when the eunuch passed by. There is that side of it, that ministry is a divine provision, not accidental. So the water was essential, too. There is such a thing as being saved by water, and such a thing as being saved by fire as well as by water.

E.P. Is there a sense of victory over the world in it? As John speaks of it, "This is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith", 1 John 5:4. I was thinking of the diseases of Egypt, that we are to be relieved from them, to be immune from the plagues. I thought perhaps the palm trees might suggest the thought of victory, victory over the world.

J.T. Evidently there would be a sense of victory over wilderness conditions there, and these are not accidental. Where you get accurate measurements in an incident like this, it is sovereignty. It is no accident but sovereignty, and coincides with the movement that is normal after the previous instruction where we accept discipline in the bitterness of death, affliction rolling in upon us. That is bitter, and then God brings back to us that Christ has been into that, and that alters the whole aspect of affairs. Now you are moving on in subjection, and that is where we get the gain of such a time as this; it is divinely prepared for us. The eunuch really needed the water at that juncture, to be saved. He was to be saved by water.

A.R. They encamped by the water; it does not say they encamped under the palm trees; I was wondering whether this would be in the full recognition of the activity of the Spirit of God.

J.T. That is the sort of thing you get in Exodus. Moses sat by the well, and here they encamped by

the wells. It is the collective idea, the word running through also.

A.H.P. Is there any correspondence with 1 Corinthians, twelve wells of water? We had suggested to us this morning the liberty of ministry from chapter 12 on.

J.T. There is plenty of it, twelve, God's special provision, involving authority; but here it is refreshment. Seventy is the same thought carried through; only involving responsibility, I think, in the persons and their recognition of the Spirit in them in the seventy.

A.J.D. Would you say that the wells and the trees are representative of a meeting like this?

J.T. Quite so; a meeting like this ought to furnish what we have here. There can be no doubt that the idea of victory enters into it, but also shelter.

J.S. Had they not gone three days' journey from the Red Sea? Temple teaching would help us; we have to experience the necessary exercises in the light of the death of Christ.

J.T. I was thinking that each of these movements has something in it. Deliverance from the Red Sea, "And Moses brought Israel from the Red Sea, and they went out into the wilderness of Shur; and they went three days in the wilderness, and found no water". That is, we are now in the wilderness definitely, three days, being testimony as to what a given thing is. They are now tasting what the wilderness is, and the first great thing is bitterness, the brackishness of Marah. God is saying, You will have discipline now, "For whom the Lord loves he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives", Hebrews 12:6. He disciplines them; the bitter waters of death rolled in. It is the keenest kind of discipline, but creates a state in us that is impressionable. God shows the wood, so we come to see that, and Moses cast it into the water. He knew what to do with it

and the water became sweet, meaning in the antitype that we accept death and discipline. We accept death. Christ has been into it, and it is sweet to be in it with Him. Romans 6 brings out the truth of it; I think that is Marah.

C.A.M. The Ethiopian seems to help in this; he was really on a journey in view of the worship of God, he "had come to Jerusalem to worship". I was impressed with what you said about this all moving on towards the dwelling place of God, and that was unquestionably a desert scene. That is emphasised, is it not, that oasis in the desert?

J.T. Quite so. What I was thinking was that the water was as much provided there as Philip was; both were essential. So that Philip identifies himself with that and goes down into the water with the eunuch. There is complete identification with the eunuch.

H.H. That is what we have to learn all through the wilderness, God's provision for His people. Is that not so?

J.T. That is it: those three days there bring out the first thing; and then the sweetness occasioned by the wood and then the statute, meaning God can now trust us with fixed principles. They move on on those lines and they came to Elim.

A.B.P. In John 5, the diseased in the porches of Bethesda and the water which required to be moved before it was beneficial, seem to be the opposite to this, do they not, as though it is what a disobedient religious system fell into? It is in contrast to what we have at Elim.

J.T. That is good. The water was moved by an angel coming down "at a certain season" meaning that it was a very scant affair; God was showing that He was still acting in mercy but in a very small way; but the wood cast in meets the whole situation and brings in joy.

H.H. The epistle of James speaks about sweet water and bitter water. Have we not these two thoughts -- the bitter water of Marah and the twelve springs, sweet water?

J.T. It is for refreshment, not for bathing; the water in the wilderness was for salvation; it is not for salvation here. In the case of the eunuch the water in the wilderness was for salvation; baptism is always for salvation. Peter says salvation is by water, and that is essential, but here it is for refreshment.

J.S. Twelve springs of water, as suggestive of the Spirit.

J.T. I think so; springing water is manifestly a type of the Spirit in the believer.

C.H.H. Would that have any connection with the water in John 4, and then the bread in chapter 6? Does that answer to Exodus 16?

J.T. I think that is right. The Lord alludes to it, at least, the Jews did; and He then brings in Himself as the bread come down from heaven. Chapter 16 here is manifestly Christ apprehended as He was here in flesh and blood in everyday life, carrying out the will of God, as food for us; hence the promise of the glory in chapter 16. It is a very rich thought, I think, coming in there. Moses says, "And in the morning, then shall ye see the glory of Jehovah", and in the verse read, they see it: "And it came to pass, when Aaron spoke to the whole assembly of the children of Israel, that they turned toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of Jehovah appeared in the cloud". It is the result of Aaron's speaking. It is a very fitting thought, I think, in this wonderful chapter about the manna. It is Aaron speaking, and Moses announces it. It would be seen, too. It really comes out in Aaron's speaking; it is in Christ in this typical way as Priest.

A.R. Is that why the high priest's speaking precedes the manna?

J.T. Well, I think it throws light on the whole chapter. Why does Aaron speak and Moses announce the thing? He is seen authoritatively in the chapter, "And Moses spoke to Aaron, Say to all the assembly of the children of Israel, Come near into the presence of Jehovah: for he has heard your murmurings. And it came to pass, when Aaron spoke to the whole assembly of the children of Israel, that they turned toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of Jehovah appeared in the cloud". Now you have a people turning toward the wilderness. Moses brought them from the Red Sea, and they go three days' journey into the wilderness and they find this bitterness: but now after all that and the recurrent murmurings, when Aaron spoke they turned toward the wilderness; although their hearts were toward Egypt, they looked toward the wilderness, meaning Christ had become attractive in His gracious speaking. They looked toward the wilderness; that is the point here and our accepting it; they looked toward the wilderness instead of looking back to Egypt; looking forward instead of backward.

J.S. As pointing the way to the glory.

J.T. That was their specific outlook for forty years, the glory was before them all through and they are learning this now and being prepared for it.

Rem. I was wondering if John 2 would fit into this; when the vessels were empty and there was no wine Mary said, "Whatever he may say to you, do", so the Lord becomes attractive in that way, through obedience.

J.T. Mary said that. Mary led the way; she was subject. She had not always been subject, she thought she could order the Lord, but now she is subject. That throws light on the whole subject.

Ques. Are wilderness conditions conducive to murmurings, generally speaking, combined with the whole of the world's system, creating this condition which is offset by priesthood in Aaron?

J.T. Yes, that is what I thought we might see in chapter 16, that God intends to overcome all that in young christians. They come to the meetings and get encouragement, but then the world is found in the heart, and it shows itself as soon as they get outside into the individual path. Chapter 16 is to make direct provision for the wilderness. In chapter 15 it is water, that is, Christ in death carrying out the will of God. There you get the beginning, I think, of the Person of the Lord Jesus as an objective for the mind. He is cast in. Well, you say, It is the will of God -- not His will; He is entirely for the will of God, and I am in association with Him in this Marah. Well, now, chapter 16 enlarges upon that. It is a question of the Person of Christ, alive, risen from the dead; for Aaron now indicates Christ as priest, Christ dying and as risen from the dead. I think Moses announces the glory prophetically; it is to be seen the next day. That is authority. But now he says, Aaron, you are to speak; because they need more than authority, the announcement of promise; they need grace, with your lips, not mine. So Aaron spoke and "it came to pass, when Aaron spoke to the whole assembly of the children of Israel that they turned toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of Jehovah appeared in the cloud". Now the speaking turns them right round toward the wilderness from Egypt, and the Lord says, I will give you grace to induce you to keep looking that way; because that is where everything is to come out. The cloud is to continue, forty years ahead of you; it is to be a period of wonderful disclosures following on that. I want to impress your minds with a man speaking to you; and then the glory appeared in the

cloud in a fixed position; so that our minds and hearts are to be held in that direction.

A.R. Is it under these circumstances that the manna comes? It says, the manna was on the face of the wilderness.

J.T. That is right. They had not been accustomed to look toward the wilderness for things before. It becomes attractive so that we look toward the wilderness for things; that is where it is to be. The Lord says, I will give you something to hold you. Priestly ministry in our localities brings in the glory.

H.H. In connection with murmuring, I suppose the thought of Aaron's rod comes in on that line. Aaron silences the murmuring, does he not?

J.T. Quite so. It is Christ in priesthood, in grace. He becomes attractive. It is a very striking passage; so that they look toward the wilderness, and God says, I will give you enough to hold you, the glory. If that does not hold us, nothing will.

A.J.D. There is the priestly ministry in the locality which will bring in the glory.

J.T. The kind of speaking that even those who do not love Him notice, "And all bore witness to him and wondered at the words of grace which were coming out of his mouth", Luke 4:22.

C.A.M. I can see the importance of speaking, so that it changes the point of view. Instead of looking back or into ourselves, or something of that kind, the attention of the persons is directed towards the glory.

J.T. That is the idea. It is a question of ministry really here. Stephen gives you the other side. He "looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God". That is another place, but this is the wilderness. The point is the wilderness here and our acceptance of it.

E.P. Does the glory of Jehovah appearing in the cloud imply that God would say, 'I have accepted this

position, whatever you may think of it'? God has accepted it.

J.T. Quite so; that is, He is going to be there. What a time is before them for the forty years that are coming! It is going to be a glory period, yet a period that tests the flesh, and the flesh does not like it.

J.S. It means rejection of the flesh.

J.T. Quite so: and the more I am reduced as after the flesh, the more I am ready for the glory.

J.W. Would it be connected with the glory of the Father in Romans 6?

J.T. I think that is right. The Lord was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father.

A.J.D. Applying the thing to our present position, could you say what the glory might be?

J.T. Well, it is not easy to say much as to it here. When we come to the New Testament, it is the glory in the face of Jesus. It is where it is most attractive. It is like a jewel set in a perfect setting; it is in the face of Jesus. "We all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit". In chapter 4 it is the glory of God in the face of Jesus, shining in our hearts (2 Corinthians 4:6).

J.B. Would John the evangelist have this in view in the opening chapter of his gospel, where we have John the baptist and his speaking in relation to the wilderness? He has the Lord in mind, and immediately the Lord comes into view. The disciples are attracted to the Lord through John the baptist's speaking.

J.T. Yes; it is said as John was looking on Jesus as he walked, "Behold the Lamb of God", it is glory because it is a sacrificial title, sacrificial glory; and that really is Exodus.

Rem. In the death of Stephen we have another magnificent view of the glory that would be stimulating

to the people of God at that time in view of the great pressure in that day. He looked in a concrete way at the glory of God and Jesus. Was it not a stimulant to the saints? And it must have impressed the great apostle himself.

J.T. I think that is right. The whole chapter is shrouded with glory, before the minister begins to speak. They saw his face as the face of an angel; that is, heavenly glory; and then he begins to speak of glory, "the God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham"; and he pursues the line right down and "looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God and Jesus", Acts 7:55. He does not say exactly what he sees but puts it into his own language, "I behold the heavens opened, and the son of man standing at the right hand of God"; but he saw more than he spoke of. That is the true ministerial instinct. He says what is needed, but it is full of the idea of glory.

A.B.P. Is there a link between this glory and the sufferings of Christ? It says of Moses, "esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt", Hebrews 11:26. I was wondering if it was what he saw that enabled him to go into the wilderness.

J.T. I think that this book of Exodus is the book of glory, in the sense of sacrificial glory; because sacrificial glory is what is in mind, God coming out in Christ in Exodus, and on the mount of transfiguration which we have in Luke. That is what they had in mind when they spoke of the Lord's decease or exodus that He should accomplish at Jerusalem; it was sacrificial glory. He was to go out of the body and Stephen is a reflection of that; it enters into the ministry of Paul. The ministry of Paul is peculiarly a ministry of glory.

H.H. Do you not see that in John 13:31? "Now is the son of man glorified and God is glorified in him".

What you get in that chapter is the thought of having part with Him. Is not that carried through until the coming of the Lord? Are not the hearts of the saints to be cherishing the glory?

J.T. That is the position exactly. John, of course, does not develop the covenant glory as much as Paul. Exodus is really covenant glory and attaches to the Lord's supper; it is the whole wilderness through. But Stephen goes beyond the wilderness; he looks into heaven and sees the glory of God there in the face of Jesus. That goes beyond the wilderness which is another additional feature. What we are at today is a question of the wilderness and what enters into it. What there is for the young christian; what a realm of glory he is introduced into, and it is to go right through. It means that you are going to have that right through.

W.B-w. In chapter 16 there is no evidence of worship on the part of the people. Is that because of their state not being right? In some other scriptures you get worship following glory, but you do not here. Is that because of the murmuring state of the people?

J.T. I think you are right. This chapter contemplates a young christian's experience. What is stressed is grace.

W.B-w. That side of the truth, grace, so as to attract us.

J.T. Yes; the murmurings are all met with grace. Even the glory meets the murmurings here. It is the glory of God's grace, to attract us in the wilderness.

R.A. Say a little more about coming into His presence. Now Aaron was to go into His presence. As yet there was no tabernacle in the wilderness.

J.T. That is the idea here. Moses spake to the children of Israel, "Come near into the presence of Jehovah", in so far as it could be. The idea of coming

near we shall get in chapter 19, as God has brought them to Himself. It is the moral thought; it is not yet the tabernacle position. It is simply God apprehended in whatever sense it was at that time. The cloud was there, for it says, "The glory appeared in the cloud". The cloud was the symbol of the divine presence. Nothing of Egypt was there.

J.W. Does the glory of the morning (chapter 16: 7) allude to the manna?

J.T. I suppose it would. It had an actual fulfilment as Aaron spoke.

J.W. "And in the morning the dew lay round the camp" (chapter 16: 13).

J.T. That, of course, is the manna, but I think this glory that Moses alludes to would come out in connection with Aaron's speaking. What did Aaron's speaking effect? Well, it effected this much, that they looked towards the wilderness instead of toward Egypt. God honours that and says, I will hold you by appearing in the glory for you to see.

E.P. Do you think that priestly speaking in that way would ensure moral results in the people?

J.T. It brings out the importance of right speaking in ministry; not only what is said, but how it is said. Moses stresses that when he says to Aaron, "Say to all the assembly of the children of Israel, Come near into the presence of Jehovah; for he has heard your murmurings". I think the allusion is to the need of sympathetic speaking in ministry so as to attract the young, and then God helping as you have right words and right thoughts. Come near into the presence of God. What an appealing thing that is! And when he spoke, the glory then appeared, as if securing them definitely in looking in that direction.

C.A.M. I suppose if one were asked what sense he had of glory in such meetings as these, for instance, it would be that there was some impression left upon the soul that God's presence was there.

J.T. Exactly; a certain thing comes into view in the speaking; perhaps something you could not express; but you are impressed by it, the fact that the glory is there.

C.H.H. Would that be seen in the attractive way that John the baptist spoke of Christ? He says, "Behold the lamb of God" and they virtually left John and followed Jesus. In that sense they beheld the glory, the moral excellency.

J.T. I think so. John suffered that, being turned away from, and accepted it gladly, but it meant there was sacrificial glory because that is what is meant by "the lamb of God".

C.H.H. I was thinking that that is the attractiveness of priestly speaking.

J.T. Quite so; this is what is meant by the glory of God. It diverted their view from him to Christ, because of the sacrificial glory in that walk.

W.J.C. Do you mean us to understand that the ministry as given here through Moses and Aaron is of such a character and has such an effect upon them that it causes a murmuring people to come near before the Lord, and then the second thing is that in coming before the Lord the ministry has an effect; they look toward the wilderness and then the glory appears?

J.T. That is the order of the passage, and what we should notice is the carefully arranged matter; it is not accidental. It is not any brother speaking; it is authoritative speaking. It was Aaron. Moses was speaking, but he tells Aaron to speak now, as if it were an arranged matter. The exigency of the matter required that Aaron should speak.

J.S. And when Aaron spoke they turned.

J.T. It was not what he said exactly, but it was the kind of speaking. It was when he spoke.

A.R. So that in our prophetic meetings we should make room for Christ. There might be an Aaron there.

J.T. I think that is important; we should have in mind who is speaking. As has been remarked, everyone may not know who is speaking. I want to know who is speaking. You say, What difference does it make? It makes a great difference; it is not only the words but the person who is saying them.

J.S.T. God commended Aaron earlier in Moses' history when he said, "Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well".

J.T. Quite so; it is an arranged matter. Moses knowing that this kind of speaking is now needed to hold the people. I believe it is important that it is not only what is said, but who says it, who spoke the words.

H.H. The priestly lips.

J.T. That is the idea, I think. Luke presents it in Christ. Luke presents the adornment proper to a minister.

C.A.M. So when the Lord Himself reads from Isaiah the prophet it was not only the reading: "The eyes of all them ... were fastened on him".

J.T. Quite so; the Scriptures were read in the synagogues, but there was never a reading like this.

H.B. Peter says, "Thou hast words of life eternal", John 6:68.

J.T. Quite so. "Thou hast words of life eternal".

W.B-w. Does the expression, "Come near into the presence of Jehovah", mean there was a system where the glory personally was linked up in the wilderness?

J.T. I think that is right. From the time it begins to move it is the symbol of the divine presence, the cloud. Later on it is the tabernacle, but in the meantime it is more an abstract thought, but still there is something there to denote the divine presence.

W.B-w. The thing was there; the presence of Jehovah was there.

J.T. That is right; the presence of Jehovah was there. The glory appearing was more than the cloud, more than the sun shining out of the cloud.

A.R. And is the manna coming in not something substantial?

J.T. Quite so. This passage, I think, throws light on the whole chapter. It is what marks the wilderness.

S.McC. In relation to the service of God in the assembly, do you not think we need to understand the glory in relation to the public position in the wilderness?

J.T. That is the point right through here, it is the public position in mind in Exodus. For going in we have to wait for Leviticus. This is the public position. Chapter 16 is a fixed position, and the glory here is public. It is what anyone in the camp could see in the wilderness; so that is what always marks those that are subject to God. People say, We have the same thing as you; we have the breaking of bread and all that. They have the imitation minus the glory. We must have the glory to go on in moral value. There is such a thing as that. The spiritual eye discerns it, that where there is subjection to God, the glory shines.

E.P. I thought perhaps turning towards the wilderness in response to such a voice would have a moral effect upon them. It gave a touch of glory in connection with the people. You get the expression, "The whole assembly of the children of Israel", and then later on, "The house of Israel". I thought perhaps the turning towards the wilderness in response to such a voice would have had a moral effect upon them and given dignity to them as such.

J.T. I think it did. You can see yourself that people who are turning away from the world and beholding the glory and directed by it take on the thing, there is something about them that is dignified. The chapter has that in mind; so they

had manna all the period of the wilderness, "until they came into an inhabited land", Exodus 16:35. Now this passage in chapter 19 follows on rightly, for the glory shone. We have a further movement. The passages are constructive; there is more there. It says, "In the third month after the departure of the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai: they departed from Rephidim, and came into the wilderness of Sinai, and encamped in the wilderness". Now they are settling down to the position. They encamped before the mount. Now it is a question of resources, potential resources, because it is the mountain of Jehovah. It is a question of what is going to be disclosed here. "Moses went up to God, and Jehovah called to him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel: Ye have seen what I have done to the Egyptians, and how I have borne you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. And now, if ye will hearken to my voice indeed and keep my covenant, then shall ye be my own possession out of all the peoples -- for all the earth is mine -- and ye shall be to me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak to the children of Israel". Now I think we are beginning to see that God is referring to their experience. It is not what He says here, but what they saw. He says, "Ye have seen what I have done to the Egyptians, and how I have borne you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself". He is alluding to what they had seen, alluding to their experience. What He is going to open up to them now is based on that. There is more material to work on now than there was in chapter 15. They have experience; they have seen what God did to the Egyptians and to themselves; how He bore them on eagles' wings. That is a very fine thing to allude to, borne by divine

power and brought to Himself. What do we know about that? "Hearken to my voice ... then shall ye be by my own possession ... and a holy nation". This is a new thing that He is opening up to us, what we are going to be to Him. And then there is to be a covenant of a new kind involving two parties. God is going to have us commit ourselves to it. As much as to say, 'I love you now, not only in an abstract way, but because of what you are, and I want to have you in a fixed relation with Myself'. It is fixity between God and His people which is very attractive, I think.

Ques. Would you say He spoke of the children of Jacob, because of what they were?

J.T. "Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel". It brings the people in on the side of their responsibility, and origin and dignity, too, as the children of Israel. God is taking us up now from the standpoint of all our experience, so far, and intimating to us that He likes it. And He says, I want to be in close, fixed relations with you. You will be a "peculiar treasure unto me".

Ques. What does, "Borne you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself", indicate in regard to the people?

J.T. They would look back on the three months in the wilderness and the time in Egypt, and they would say, God's power did all this. The spiritual person would say this: 'It is not my own power. He has brought me to Himself'.

C.A.M. Who is the real christian who does not experience anything like that? This answer that they give seems to be in relation to this very glory itself, because God does not anticipate any breakdown. Is that how you look at that?

J.T. Yes; but it is on the basis of obedience: "If ye will hearken to my voice indeed and keep my covenant". It is still dependent on obedience.

H.H. These things are made with the people of God; not with unconverted people. Covenants are only made with those who are in relationship, those in the kingdom and viewed as priests.

J.T. Quite so.

S.McC. Would you say in connection with encamping before the mountain, and God referring to bearing them on eagles' wings, that He would bring their minds into a sphere of moral elevation such as is suggested in the verses you have quoted?

J.T. I think so. The meaning is moral elevation, and it is greatly stressed here; and in that elevation, there are resources, as already alluded to. Moses met Aaron there, and Jehovah had spoken to Moses there. It is a place with a known history, and the people are encamped there, and Israel "came into the wilderness of Sinai, ... and Israel encamped there before the mountain". There is a double thought there; they are accepting the wilderness and are now before the mount and God is going to open up to us great things now.

A.R. How did this work out in connection with the speaking you have been referring to? "And Jehovah called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went up. And Jehovah said to Moses, Go down, testify to the people that they break not through to Jehovah to gaze, and many of them perish". There are only a few words to tell them what to do.

J.T. I think the incentive is what they are going to be to God, "My own possession out of all the peoples ... and ye shall be to me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation". This is what God proposes. And Jehovah says, "These are the words which thou shalt speak to the children of Israel", and Moses came down and "laid before them all these words which Jehovah had commanded him". Notice that; he laid them before them. It is a very deliberate

matter. It is a short message, but a very great matter and done in a very deliberate way. Then it says, "And all the people answered together, and said, All that Jehovah has spoken will we do!". They are committing themselves now in what you might call this covenant or contract. We get the actual terms of it in the next chapter. And then we have it ratified in a most marvellous setting in chapter 24. Not only now is Moses ascending, but Aaron, Nadab and Abihu and seventy of the elders. You can see you are on the up line now right through.

R.A.L. What does Moses stand for here? Is he the mediator?

J.T. Yes; he represents the man between God and the people, Christ, of course, in glory when we come to chapter 24. We cannot take it up now. It is one of the richest chapters in the Old Testament. The Lord may give us to see it is cumulative, and all that we have said here today carries us on to elevation, not only for Moses but the people, where we see the God of Israel.

J.B. Has Peter this in view: "Ye are a chosen race, a kingly priesthood"?

J.T. He takes up these points. As we began this morning with reference to the early part of the first chapter, "Sanctification of the Spirit, unto the obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ", 1 Peter 1:2. It is a standard. That is what is before us in these meetings, and those who stumbled at the word are, of course, disallowed and set aside, "But ye are a chosen race, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a people for a possession, that ye might set forth the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness to his wonderful light", 1 Peter 2:9. The thought is carried through.

W.B-w. What is the meaning of the sprinkling of the blood?

J.T. Chapter 24 is cumulative. The idea of obedience is carried through. The people undertake to serve and do all that Jehovah said, and then Moses builds twelve pillars and offers sacrifices, and then he writes down the things. As much as to say, You have committed yourselves thoroughly to them; I will write them down. Chapter 24 is the ratification of the whole matter. You have the basins or vessels in which it was; then the sprinkling. The blood of Jesus Christ, not of bulls and of goats. He is alluding to chapter 24, the volume of blood; that is what is stressed, on the altar, people and book. So that chapter 24 is the great sprinkling chapter.

W.B-w. What is the difference between the sprinkling on the door-posts and the covenant?

J.T. In Exodus 12:22 he says to the people, "Take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and smear the lintel and the two door-posts with the blood that is in the bason". That is what he says to the people. Jehovah says to him, "And they shall take of the blood ..." (verse 7). The word 'sprinkling' is in this chapter and in chapter 24, and twice at least in the New Testament. It is alluded to in Hebrews, and by Peter, and seems to be a larger thought, the sprinkling of the altar and the people and the book. Chapter 24 is the great sprinkling chapter; it is the blood in its fulness, the fulness of the death of Christ, in that chapter, entering into ratification of the covenant. The whole position is sealed (Hebrews 9:22) and without it there can be no remission, nothing can be established without it.

C.A.M. The words 'ratification' and 'sealed' should help everybody.

J.T. And then to bring in the people, the sacrificial side of the system, the people and the book. The whole position is ratified, established permanently on the ground not only of the blood in an abstract or small way, but in the fulness of it. The blood is

there in the basins; it is there in the most concrete way to be considered and applied. We shall have to go into that more carefully.

Rem. The Lord said to Peter three times, "Lovest thou me?" John 21:15.

J.T. That is right. Peter being tested three times as to his love, and really what is suggested is good. It culminates in Peter's being entirely resigned to the will of God (John 21:18, 19). That is the fulness of obedience. God is glorified in his death. The saints are taken up on the ground of experience in chapter 19, but in chapter 24 we are in the presence of the greatest richness in regard to the death of Christ.

A.B.P. Is there any development of spiritual sensibilities? We had the idea of taste in the water. There is also hearing and seeing. Spiritual sensibilities are developed in this sphere.

OBEDIENCE AS PREPARING FOR THE GLORY (3)

Exodus 24:12 - 18; Exodus 34:29 - 35; Exodus 35:20 - 29

J.T. The subject is subjection, or obedience, as seen in this book and its relation with glory, or the relation of glory with it. We had Chapter 12 yesterday morning. It was pointed out that Exodus is the ministerial book. Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers but particularly Exodus, so that what is seen developed for God in type is through ministry. God uses qualified persons to convey His mind, calling for subjection to what is said, an ear to hear and to obey the commandments of Jehovah through Moses and Aaron. So that in chapter 4 we have the people worshipping Jehovah in that connection, the ministry being effective, and in chapter 12 likewise. In addition to worshipping in chapter 12 the people departed from Moses and did exactly as God had commanded through him, meaning that the idea of obedience was not simply carried out in the presence of the mediator but as having departed out of his sight. The idea of obedience was carried into their homes and into their ordinary positions. In chapter 15 we have the principle of a state being developed in the wilderness, an impressionable state through discipline. The brackish waters of Marah cause complaint; that is, the bitterness of death was tasted by the people and Moses was shown wood which he cast into the waters, and in that way they were made sweet. The experience of bitterness and sweetness, the sweetness occasioned by the fact that Christ is understood to have been in death, having tasted death fully, as it is said, "for every thing", Hebrews 2:9. The people tasted it also and in that way are brought into correspondence with Christ. So that we have a

statute and an ordinance by Jehovah, implying that at this stage of a believer's progress he is able to take account of fixed principles and to abide by them and to be immune consequently from governmental afflictions such as God put upon the Egyptians. Then in chapter 19 they are brought nigh to God and said to be three months out of Egypt. There is now more extended experience than at Marah; they have gone a step further. We are told that they pitched in the wilderness and they encamped before the mountain. They had come from Rephidim, having gone through all that experience and now they are in the presence of the mountain. Jehovah proposes that on the ground of obedience they should be to Him a holy nation, a kingdom of priests, a great privilege proposed on the ground of obedience. The idea of a covenant is included in chapter 19. They are to commit themselves to a covenant, which they did. This chapter (24) was also touched on. The covenant is ratified and it will be observed that the word 'judgments' is added here, that is, in verse 3, "And Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the Lord hath said will we do". They are now put into writing, and he "built an altar under the mountain, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel", as if now, in this committal to the covenant, we are to have the exercise of love. The brethren are to move on in love together. The chapter is full of that to bring out affection and patience. The volume of blood is put into basins then sprinkled on the altar and the people, and on the book also, as in Hebrews 9:19. The whole position is ratified by blood in fulness.

It may be noticed now in this chapter that the idea of going up is proposed, not only for Moses, but for Moses, Aaron, Nadab and Abihu and seventy of

the elders of Israel. It should be observed that it is simply the idea of going up in verses 1 and 9, but when we come to verse 12 to the end, the word 'mount' or 'mountain' is very frequent, occurring seven or eight times. As far as I can see, it is not mentioned in connection with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu and the elders going up. It is mentioned in connection with Moses' going up. That is, the idea of place is stressed in connection with Moses, but the going up is all that is stressed in connection with the others, which the Lord may help us to understand at this time.

J.S.T. Would you enlarge a little on the thought of judgments which you were suggesting?

J.T. I think we are progressing, as was remarked yesterday. The subject is progressive. We find the word 'judgments' in the beginning of chapter 21, "Now these are the judgments", or 'fixed ordinances' it says in the note. In chapter 19 it is, "If ye will hearken to my voice indeed and keep my covenant, ... These are the words which thou shalt speak". In chapter 20 we have the actual ten words and then in chapter 21 the word "judgments", or 'ordinances', which runs on, I suppose, to chapter 23, various laws, and then in chapter 24 we have, "Moses came and told the people all the words of Jehovah, and all the judgments"; that would be inclusive of the intervening chapters between chapters 20 and 24, more obligatory than what is stated in chapter 19. So that the burden is not lightened, but the people are willing; they accept all unqualifiedly, and then everything is written down as if the thing is fixed, a sort of covenant or contract. Then there are the twelve pillars and the offerings and the basins, pointing to the overwhelming testimony of love in the death of Christ. Alongside of this is the thought of ascension, not exactly to a place, for really we do not enter our place on high until we are translated. But there is the

principle of ascension in assembly service, and Christ has entered into the place which I think is what is in mind in the verses read.

C.A.M. Do you think in that way the matter of judgment coming in between God's word about their going up and their actually going up would show that every question is settled prior to going up?

J.T. I think that is the meaning of it, and we ascend with clean hands; there is no unsettled question behind us. You cannot think of an unsettled matter above, any disregard of the will of God. Things are to be done on earth as in heaven. As in heaven we are viewed as entirely according to the mind of God. The thought of ascension is to be observed and Moses' going up to a place, as it is said, "Jehovah said to Moses, Come up to me into the mountain, and be there" (Exodus 24:12), as if pointing to the present place of Christ, the Mediator on high.

Ques. Would the seventy represent the whole of Israel placed on the ground of responsibility?

J.T. I suppose so; viewed in that way the elders are representative of the whole.

H.H. You were possibly thinking of Psalm 24 when you spoke of ascending with clean hands. "Who shall ascend into the mount of Jehovah? and who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath blameless hands and a pure heart".

J.T. Quite so. That is just what I was thinking about.

E.P. What bearing has the Hebrew servant on all this? I was thinking of your reference, "These are the judgments thou shalt set before them".

J.T. Would it not be the one who loves, taking the lead? The Hebrew servant is the first one to say, "I love". So that we have the principle of keeping the commandments set out in Christ. We have leadership in the Hebrew servant.

E.P. Would it correspond at all with John 13:1, "Having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end"?

J.T. That is right. He was going to the Father; He is the leader. So that although chapter 20 contemplates "thousands of them that love me", we have only one man saying he loves and showing that he loves. It is the way of love in chapters 22, 23 and 24, set out in Christ.

H.H. That is very helpful. Love enables us to fulfil the law, does it not?

J.T. There is no other way, love is the fulness of it.

H.H. The Hebrew servant accepted the committal. He would not go out free. His master had given him a wife, she had given him children, but he plainly said he loved his master, his wife, and his children and he would not go out free. He had accepted the commitments. Would that not be so in connection with the covenant; our hand is on the table in committal to all?

J.T. So you can see how the glory shines in Christ. Psalm 19 is the glory: "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handiwork"; that is the first part of the psalm where Christ is spoken of as the Sun, as the "bridegroom coming out of his chamber and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race". It is the glory in the heavens; but the second part of the psalm has to do with the earth, the law and the ordinances, when Christ becoming Man took all this up. There is a complete circle of glory in this psalm, the first His personal shining out in the heavens, the second in a moral way here below in Jesus.

C.A.M. The glory is under His feet in the psalm. You would say it is not only above, but the glory is under, too.

J.T. Exactly; the glory down here in the second part of Psalm 19 is the shining out of the glory in a

moral sense in Christ. So that John, in looking upon Jesus as He walked would see glory in that walk. When he saw Him coming to him he said, "Behold the lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world", John 1:29. That is one sacrificial glory, and then "looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the lamb of God!" (verse 36). He became attractive to John's followers.

A.J.D. What about the glory that John contemplates? He contemplated the glory, "a glory as of an only-begotten with a father", John 1:14.

J.T. That is a higher glory, how He was with His Father. It is the glory of family relationship. That was contemplated by the disciples.

A.R. Is that why there is this volume of blood in this chapter. It is not from sin-offerings, but from burnt-offerings. Does it suggest the glory of the Person that has been slain, Christ here in perfection for God?

J.T. Burnt-offerings and peace-offerings, quite so. They are delightful. Delightfulness enters into the thing, these burnt-offerings and peace-offerings. Peace-offerings bring the saints into it.

A.R. I was wondering about the idea of youth, representing freshness. There is freshness now seen in the saints corresponding to what was seen in Christ.

J.T. Well, the youthfulness is freshness and vigour of life; that is the idea. It is not the priestly side exactly, but rather youthfulness and persons wholly subservient, youthful persons.

C.C.S. Would you say that the thought of the Hebrew servant coming in here would fit in with the Lord's words in John 14:15, "If ye love me, keep my commandments"? What He was enjoining upon His own was found livingly in Himself.

J.T. Quite so. It has been remarked, "Having loved his own who were in the world, loved them to

the end"; that is the spirit of the Hebrew servant. But then He is going away, and He is exercising what you may call parental affection towards them. There are three kinds of love; there is the ascending love to the master and horizontal love to the wife (for the principle of the wife is equality in that sense), and the descending love to the children. In John 13 it is descending love: "By this shall all know that ye are disciples of mine, if ye have love amongst yourselves". That is the thing in quality amongst them. The love is there amongst them.

J.B. Does Psalm 16 fit in with what we have here? Would the expression "at my right hand" suggest the glory, and the words, "I have set Jehovah continually before me" have in mind complete committal to Jehovah?

J.T. The whole psalm might fit in with what we are saying. He set Jehovah continually before Him, and then he said his goodness did not extend to Jehovah, a wonderful expression of self-abnegation, what you might call compression in the Lord. How He compressed Himself to say that! Then He says, "To the saints that are on the earth, and to the excellent ... . In them is all my delight". That is horizontal love. When He says, "I have set Jehovah ... before me", that is ascending love in Christ. "My goodness extendeth not to thee; to the saints that are on the earth ... in them is all my delight", so that there would be the ascending love, and the saints viewed horizontally as alongside of Him. Then the psalmist abominates the idea of idolatry.

H.H. That helps; it comes into line with this chapter, the abomination of idolatry; there is no other god.

J.T. Quite so. So that the psalm runs on to what is at God's right hand. He would show him the path of life: "Thy countenance is fulness of joy; at thy right hand are pleasures for evermore". The psalm

contemplates ascent, that He would ascend in that sense to the right hand of God.

S.McC. Do you think that if the volume of blood suggested in this section were better understood and enjoyed amongst us, we would have an environment in which there would be more readiness to take on this spirit of obedience and subjection to these things? "All the words that Jehovah has said will we do!" (chapter 24: 3).

J.T. The chapter is full of rich thoughts and carefully set words and terms. The word 'mountain' is kept in the background until you come to verse 12. It is the spiritual thought that is in mind. The first part is that ascension is possible, the type pointing on to Christ and the covenant. Ascension is possible in this connection, not at the beginning, but in this connection as we progress in the understanding of the love of God. How pleasing His commandments are to us as they are accepted unqualifiedly by us, inclusive of judgments.

C.A.M. In that way this matter of being under His feet is the thought of the "transparent sapphire, and as it were the form of heaven for clearness". The very beauty of the thing is that it is below. So that now there is on earth a glory which corresponds with heaven, but it is under His feet. How do you understand that?

J.T. It points to what we have as we ascend. We ascend out of the wilderness conditions. We begin with the wilderness but we ascend out of the wilderness conditions. The wilderness conditions imply that the walking place is sand and God tells us later that He walked with Israel forty years. That would be His coming down to their circumstances; but these special occasions imply that we ascend out of wilderness conditions into divine conditions. We are brought up to see where God walks.

H.H. Is not the sapphire a blue stone, a heavenly colour? Would it not suggest the heavenly side of things for us?

J.T. I think it does. We are brought into it on the principle of ascension. In a spiritual way we are brought into divine circumstances where the walking is; Habakkuk says, "And he will make me to walk upon my high places", Habakkuk 3:19. He had been walking here below in a scene of discipline and felt it, too; but now whatever happens he says, "Yet I will rejoice in Jehovah, I will joy in the God of my salvation. Jehovah, the Lord, is my strength, and he maketh my feet like hinds' feet, and he will make me to walk upon my high places". Then the praise is upon the stringed instruments to the chief Musician. This passage has that in mind, that faith is enabled by the power of the Spirit to ascend into divine circumstances so that what is under the divine feet is sapphire pavement, "Under his feet as it were work of transparent sapphire, and as it were the form of heaven for clearness". It is a question of the clarity of the position, beautiful transparency that belongs to the people of God in these circumstances.

A.H.P. Does that correspond with 1 John 1:7, "If we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his son cleanses us from all sin"?

J.T. That is down here where the fellowship is, that we walk in that light; not God walking in it, but God in it. Here we have what is under His feet a heavenly thing. He is going to come down. In the next chapter He says, 'I am going to come down and dwell among you'; that is, in wilderness circumstances.

J.S. Would "under his feet" suggest the work completed (chapter 24. 10)?

J.T. It is a created thing that we can have part in. It is not an uncreated condition. It is what God

has come into in grace in the heavenly side of it. It is a "work of transparent sapphire, and as it were the form of heaven for clearness". It is what His feet are on. It is what we touch, our privilege to touch on the principle of ascension. Not exactly a place, but it is to see what is under His feet. We are brought into divine circumstances, and as seeing those circumstances on high, we all the more value what He proposes to do in love; that is, to come down here and walk upon the sand.

A.R. As having gone up they are called nobles there, and it says, "He laid not his hand" on them (chapter 24. 11). Would it suggest that they are in correspondence with the place?

J.T. I think that is in it. It is clearly what we are as ascended, equal to the place, and at liberty to eat and drink and see God.

A.J.D. In John 20, the Lord comes into the midst and it says that He stood, "He stood in the midst". He did not sit down among the brethren. Do you think that denotes that He has in mind ascension for the saints? He was not going to remain with them on that level, indicating that there was something further on the ascension line which you have in mind.

J.T. "He stood in the midst" would mean that He had not reached finality. The position was tentative. He was going on to finality, so that standing would not be a permanent state of things. Stephen sees Him still standing at the right hand of God, meaning that the final point had not been reached yet. The idea is that He was waiting in grace on the Jews.

Ques. Is it a progressive thought in verse 11: "And on the nobles of the children of Israel He laid not his hand: they saw God, and ate and drank"?

J.T. The idea of nobility is mentioned. The words are set like jewels here, each in its place. The

word 'nobles' comes in in verse 11 to set us free. The truth of the matter is that the covenant is to release us for sonship. Great and glorious as it is, it is a means to an end. It is to release us in intelligence and affection for sonship in the position above. Sonship is implied in the word 'nobles'; then there would be liberty to eat and drink in the presence of God.

W.B-w. I thought the mountain was suggestive of heavenly atmosphere come down into the sphere of administration.

J.T. That is no doubt true. The way in which the word is introduced here leads up to the present session of Christ in a place. Jehovah says, "Come up to me into the mountain, and be there", and then we are told at the end of the chapter that Moses was on the mountain forty days and forty nights; as if to call attention to a session there and the people left below under Aaron and Hur. That is to say, if any matter comes up they are there, but the mediator is on high. It says in chapter 24: 15, 16, "And the cloud covered the mountain. And the glory of Jehovah abode on mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days". Then in verse 17, "The appearance of the glory of Jehovah was like a consuming fire on the top of the mountain, before the eyes of the children of Israel. And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and ascended the mountain". The word 'glory' comes into its place. There is great stress laid on the mountain, and to ascension, pointing to that which attached to Moses alone; no one else was to be there. Joshua was there, but only as an accessory; he is not there mentioned as a man of privilege. He was only an accessory to the mediator. It is the minister that is in mind. We should have Christ in His personal distinction before us in this matter, the idea of the place on the mountain being connected with Him, and only the idea of going up connected with us.

C.H.H. Would that be similar to Matthew 17 enhancing the mediator? In Isaiah 42 Christ Himself is spoken of as being set a covenant.

J.T. The mediator is everything on the mountain. Matthew is the gospel of mountains. It is Christ in a variety of ways, on seven different mountains; each one brings out some different glory of Christ. On the mount of transfiguration we have the Supreme thought; it is to bring out who He is. That, I think, enters into this. The distinction that is seen in Moses is that although the glory was like a consuming fire, he goes into it.

A.R. As if the only man equal for such a position.

J.T. Only one man is equal to that. The others are allowed to see the God of Israel and where His feet were. But now the glory is a consuming fire and who can face that? I think the true Mediator's distinction is in mind.

J.S. In Matthew it says His face shone as the sun.

J.T. That is right; it is the administrative side and so the mountains are prominent there.

C.H.H. In Luke the cloud does not overshadow them until Moses and Elias have departed.

J.T. Just so. Luke alone gives us the departure of Moses and Elias before you get the cloud. Peter had said, "Let us make ...", but it is only Christ, it is to bring out the glory of Christ personally.

E.P. You mean that Moses was greatly distinguished at this point. He says to the elders, "Wait here for us, until we return to you" (verse 14). They were left in the position to which he had brought them.

J.T. I do not think they were really left there; I think the idea is that the ascension contemplated in the first half of the chapter really does not take us away literally from the earth at all. After assembly session, for instance, as we had to do with this morning, when we come back to what is normal, we are on the earth. It is all a question of the state of our

minds, and I think that is what is in mind here. Aaron and Hur are amongst Israel, not simply amongst the seventy elders; they are forty days below with the people. It throws great light on our position here. When we return in mind from proper assembly privileges we are just here, as Aaron and Hur are here in the midst of all the people of Israel.

E.P. So Moses says, "Behold, Aaron and Hur are with you: if any man have any matter let him come before them".

J.T. That is the whole people; the subsequent history shows that it was so. Instead of Aaron being true they make the calf during these forty days.

A.R. Do you think the position is higher and higher? In verse 13 it says that Moses went up to the mountain of God with Joshua his attendant.

J.T. Notice it does not say that Joshua went up into the mountain, I am only calling attention to that so that every word is to be noticed here, "Moses rose up, and Joshua his attendant; and Moses went up to the mountain of God" (verse 13). It does not say Moses and Joshua went up; it is Moses going up into the mount. Joshua would go, of course, but the wording is so accurate. He is not to be viewed as a person of any special privilege or distinction here. The idea is Moses going up to the mountain and Moses alone. He is only attending Moses in an accessory way.

A.J.D. Would it enhance the rights of the mediator?

J.T. It is what belongs to Christ. It is to bring out that He is the one that went into the mountain.

A.R. In the last verse of the chapter it says, "And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and ascended the mountain". It is said of the Lord that He "ascended up far above all heavens", Ephesians 4:10.

J.T. That is just what I thought we would get to. We must be sure that we are not making Joshua a person in that position. He is not mentioned at the beginning of the chapter at all; not that I would make light of Joshua. We must not detract from the pre-eminence of Christ, the only One who is said to have gone into the mountain. In verse 18 "Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and ascended the mountain", not simply going up as the others did; he went to the highest point.

Ques. This morning in the giving of thanks you referred to God, "that spared not his own Son but delivered him up for us all", Romans 8:32. Is that the point you are stressing? The greatness of the mediator as the One who has brought in the love of God and sustains it eternally.

J.T. That is right and how distinguished He is! He can go to the highest point and be there. He is there at the present time. As I understand it, the present mediatorial session of Christ is there; He is there in regard to ourselves.

W.J.C. Does Joshua represent the saints' position as rising up and able to go so far, but not going all the way; not into an uncreated sphere or into the elevation to which Christ Himself is gone?

J.T. Well, it is just a question of attending: "Joshua his attendant". It is that thought introduced here, not to bring out any distinction attaching to the person of Joshua yet, for as he comes down after the forty days his ear is not good.

H.H. He is not presented in this chapter in that light.

J.T. He is just mentioned as a certain element there, and what is stressed is Moses, and Moses alone going up, "Let Moses alone come near Jehovah; but they shall not come near" (verse 2).

F.N.W. I had in mind verse 11, I was wondering if there was a way in which we might take up nominally

this position and God might have to lay His hand upon us, perhaps in view of lack of obedience and subjection.

J.T. I think the fact that He did not lay His hand on them was because they were thoroughly in accord with His mind.

R.A.L. Is that why He is also called the God of Israel? He acknowledged that they had accepted the position. Is the thought of complacency in that?

J.T. I think so; "they saw the God of Israel". It is to bring out the spirituality of the position. It is an entirely spiritual matter. We see that going up in the first part of the chapter is an entirely spiritual matter for us, but the second part of the chapter is a literal thing; Christ has personally gone up to the highest point.

H.H. Nadab and Abihu are mentioned here, but they are not later.

J.T. Quite so. It is the people taken up as they are; their state is not yet brought into it. It is a question, I think, of the way God looks at us as we are in these circumstances. I could not say very much as to what happened subsequently to Nadab and Abihu. It has to be taken account of in the judicial ways of God. Here they are just part of the whole system, which is brought into view.

H.H. It was very serious that such privileged and prominent men came under judgment later on. They evidently used their own minds and wills, disregarding what the anointing should be in a priestly way.

J.T. Quite so.

J.S. Moses was in the midst of the cloud in verse 18. Would that indicate the position that Christ has in glory?

J.T. It would seem so. It is to bring out Christ's personal greatness, that He can go so far beyond the points we reach; so that "in all things he might have the pre-eminence", Colossians 1:18.

A.R. Is there any significance in the fact that it says in the last verse that he ascended the mountain, and then it says he was on the mountain, as if he has a position permanently?

J.T. God says, "Be there" (verse 12). God has Moses in His mind in that distinctive way from the beginning of the chapter. Now He says in verse 12, "Come up to me into the mountain, and be there". In the last verse Moses was on the mountain so many days, like the present session of Christ on high.

A.J.D. Would "Be there" correspond to the New Testament, "Sit thou at my right hand"?

J.T. "As I also have overcome, and have sat down with my Father in his throne", Revelation 3:21.

C.A.M. I was wondering if, in that connection, linking it on with the privilege of the morning meeting, whether we do not come back together with that sense of the pre-eminence of Christ; whether this whole matter which you are alluding to would be a picture of what we now experience anticipatively.

J.T. Yes, quite so. We have to go to chapter 34 to get the full thought of Moses' coming back. When he came back in chapter 32, it was to execute judgment. The point we are on now is not that, but to see how Moses came back and how the glory shone in his face. I think we ought to link chapter 34 with chapter 24 to bring out how Moses came back from God with glory, with his face shining; and the connection with the assembly service is that we shine, we take on that glory, "We all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory". We take on that glory "even as by the Lord the Spirit". There is a great function or service in which the Lord changes us so that we take on the glory, and I think that is what we get in the end of chapter 24. Chapter 34 is another going up, and in the meantime

Moses has taken on greater glory, greater distinction. So that he is allowed now to hew out the tables for himself. Chapter 34: 2: "And be ready for the morning, and go up in the morning to mount Sinai, and stand there before me on the top of the mountain". No Joshua now, no seventy, no Aaron, it is Moses alone. "Let no man go up with thee, neither shall any man be seen on all the mountain; neither shall sheep and oxen feed in front of that mountain" (verse 3). Then Moses went up, we are told, and Jehovah came down in the cloud and stood beside him there, so that now we have the action of Jehovah there. What happened up there in regard of Christ, what distinction, and how the glory passed by! Then we are told, "It came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai -- and the two tables of testimony were in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mountain -- that Moses knew not that the skin of his face shone through his talking with him. And Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, and behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come near him. And Moses called to them; and they turned to him -- Aaron and all the principal men of the assembly; and Moses talked with them" (verses 29 - 31). Now you have the full thought of what happened up there. In chapter 24 it is simply Moses going up, and in chapter 34 it is what transpired between Jehovah and Moses. Moses came down and the skin of his face shone and they were afraid of him, but they turned towards him, "And Moses called to them; and they turned to him". That is a beautiful picture of how they are set at liberty as they spoke to him. The principal men and Aaron are happy with him.

J.S. Do you regard this shining as the outshining of glory?

J.T. I was thinking that is how glory is connected with obedience, how it is interwoven with obedience

throughout this book. It takes its place in the face of a man, the most attractive place it could be in.

S.McC. I was wondering if there was progression in that regard in which this glory is seen. In chapter 16 the glory is seen in relation to the cloud; in chapter 24 it is abiding on mount Sinai, and now it is seen in relation to the face of a man, in that narrow compass.

J.T. Well, is not that very beautiful? Where can it be more attractively set than in the face of Jesus? It is the most attractive thing. The glory is placed there so that we should be drawn to it. They were afraid, it says here, but "Moses called to them; and they turned to him -- Aaron and all the principal men of the assembly; and Moses talked with them. And afterwards, all the children of Israel came near; and he gave them in commandment all that Jehovah had spoken with him on mount Sinai". Now there is a happy state of things set up, the glory in the face of a man. I am using this from a typical point of view as seen in 2 Corinthians. The centre of the system of things that God has set up, is glory in the face of a Man.

J.S. Is the glory for our contemplation? I thought the shining was for our contemplation.

J.T. Exactly, and that it should shine out, too, "The God who spoke that out of darkness light should shine who has shone in our hearts for the shining forth of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ", 2 Corinthians 4:6. So that it goes the full length of the administrative position at the present time in the gospel. "But if also our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in those that are lost; in whom the god of this world has blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving, so that the radiancy of the glad tidings of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine forth for them", 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4.

Ques. Is there any instruction for us in the fact that it was the second time that Moses came down?

J.T. Well, so much enters into the second visit. So much intervened in the golden calf being set up, and Moses' faithfulness in dealing with all that. God exalts him. He progresses in greater and greater glory; it is simply Christ coming out more and more. The more the sin on our side, the more the glory of Christ shines. Chapter 34 contemplates what had intervened, how faithful Moses had been, and God is committing so much to him that he is allowed to make the two tables of stone; we are told he also made an ark at the same time (Deuteronomy 10:3). So I think it is Christ increasingly before us.

H.H. The ministry is now after the breakdown, the church breakdown.

J.T. And does it not enhance Christ in your soul, in all our souls?

H.H. Yes, it does.

C.H.H. In this case, are the saints represented in the stones to be taken up?

J.T. Well, if we take it as a type they are. We are the material for the writing; that is the way it works out in 2 Corinthians.

Ques. Would the first epistle to the Corinthians correspond with Moses coming down in Exodus 32, and then the second epistle correspond with chapter 34, his face shines? It is the same person because his love is still the same, found in administration against evil and showing sin dealt with. God is coming out in love more than ever.

J.T. There is greater glory in the second letter than the first letter; in fact, he tells us that he had been down even to the gates of death, and now he says, "Our heart is enlarged", and he is able to write the second letter.

A.R. Is the second letter written to change the faces of the saints at Corinth, so that their faces might begin to shine?

J.T. Quite so. It is not that Christ becomes greater personally, but He becomes greater to the ministers, and is seen to be greater through their ministry.

A.H.P. Would "From glory to glory" indicate the variety of glories connected with Christ?

J.T. I think it would. The glory is endless. The best illustration you can get of that is Stephen. He began with angelic glory; his face shone as an angel, and then he began to speak of the God of glory. If you think of the God of glory the whole range of glory must come into that. The moral side is seen in him in the wonderful way in which he reflected Christ. Then he says, I see the glory of God in heaven.

H.H. The covenant is better appreciated after a breakdown, is it not? I thought there was more abundant entrance into the covenant after the breakdown at Corinth, and the general breakdown in connection with the church; more abundant appreciation of things now than what you get, for instance, in 1 Corinthians 11, where Paul speaks of the Spirit. What things are there in relation to God in the cup?

J.T. Enlarge a little on that.

H.H. I thought the cup is connected with God; the loaf with Christ. Paul gives a distinct setting to the Supper in 1 Corinthians 11. It was to correct bad conduct there, I suppose, but when you come to 2 Corinthians 3 there is a heart on which things can be written, and it would still carry and maintain a right impression of the covenant. So that it is written on the fleshy tables of the heart, that which God can use so that the saints may carry right impressions of the covenant, of the love of God, and in affectionate response answer to it.

J.T. I am glad you said that. It brings out how things are, the saints taking on glory. I do not know of anything more interesting than that, the way glory is worked out in relation to obedience, and how in the ministry the ministers are glorious. Paul was glorious, really more glorious in the second letter. Stephen begins with glory in his own face. It was in his face but it was angelic glory, I suppose, pointing to that particular period in the ways of God. Angelic service was still there for they are "sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation", Hebrews 1:14. But then that is not all the glory, for the Old Testament was by the disposition of angels in the hands of a mediator. The old system was on that principle, and Stephen reflected that fully; but it was not all the glory. Stephen begins his subject with glory, with the God of glory, as much as to say, There is a domain of glory and God is the God of it and there is the working out of it in the Mediator. Stephen goes over the ground of the Old Testament and he begins to shine in moral glory. He is like his Master in the end, there is the shining out of moral glory. He says. "I see the heavens opened" (Acts 7:56) and there is more glory there. The glory of God is there and Jesus is there. Stephen is able to say just what he saw; he does not say much, "I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God"; but there is a young man standing by who is going to say much about it. There is to be the opening up of that glory. I believe the second letter, corresponding with our chapter here, is from a great vessel of glory. He says of the saints, "Vessels of mercy, which he had before prepared for glory", Romans 9:23. That is the idea; Stephen is representative of that and this chapter points to the second letter to the Corinthians. How great Paul was, and how he would bring the saints into that greatness! There is to be fixity of glory

down here, a taking on of glory, going "from glory to glory". There is no end to it.

C.A.M. So that the last with God is always the best. The most glorious thing is at the end, I mean in connection with the present dispensation. The last glory is most glorious.

J.T. I think what was suggested to us was that the breakdown in the assembly has given the Lord an opportunity to bring out the glory of Christ in the assembly, as perhaps has never been presented before in such detail.

C.H.H. Are you suggesting that what Paul saw in Stephen was the foundation of his ministry?

J.T. I think so. He would never forget that; he tells the Lord later about it, that he was there when His martyr Stephen was put to death.

Ques. I would like to ask in regard to the end of Acts 20. It says, "They all wept sore; and falling upon the neck of Paul they ardently kissed him, specially pained by the word which he had said, that they would no more see his face". I was going to ask in regard to his face whether the great thought of the covenant was reflected in Paul himself, that the elders of Ephesus were so touched that they would not see his face again.

J.T. I think that is a good link there, especially in relation to what we were saying about Stephen's face and about Jesus' face and now the greatest minister really is Paul. What a face it must have been to the saints!

OBEDIENCE AS PREPARING FOR THE GLORY (4)

Exodus 35:20 - 29; Exodus 39:32, 42, 43; Exodus 40:9 - 38

J.T. The verses in chapter 35 show how obedience continued according to what we have in chapter 12, as they departed from before Moses. Obedience to the extent of sacrifice, of unselfishness, is seen strikingly in verses 20 - 29. It says, "And all the assembly of the children of Israel departed from before Moses. And they came every one whose heart moved him". Obedience and rectitude are often apparent, happily in our gatherings, as in each other's presence and in the presence of the Lord; but as we depart and enter on our own ordinary occupations, especially if we are isolated, the test comes in. These verses show that obedience was maintained to the extent of sacrifice, and that it extended to, and included, the women as well as the men, and also the principal men, as it says in verse 27. So that in verse 29 we have, "The children of Israel brought a voluntary offering to Jehovah, every man and woman whose heart prompted them to bring for all manner of work, which Jehovah, by the hand of Moses, had commanded to be done".

C.H.H. You remarked in the first meeting that this material represented the saints as being formed. Would that correspond to Romans 12 as being formed you offer yourself?

J.T. That is right. That is the order of the truth in Romans. The chapter begins, "By the compassions of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God". The saints are eligible as sacrifice. "And be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove". Thus I think we are formed, and the various needs for the building of the tabernacle

are developed. So that as you run down the chapter you see a great variety of service all working out from the first part of the chapter, and that each is to consider himself, his measure in his service, that it is according to the measure of faith that God has dealt to every man, and that involves calculation. All that enters into these chapters.

H.H. Everyone would in that way be a vital part of the system. Their contribution would be themselves, in that sense. Would that be right?

J.T. That is what is meant, so that it becomes very practical. Instead of reading up this material, you think of yourself, what you are, and what I am, all as finished and brought to Moses, so that his eye passes over everything. Every one of us as in assembly comes under the Lord's eye. We are to be there on His terms and not on ours.

A.B.P. Would you say that the house of Stephanas would fit in here?

J.T. Quite so. Wherever you have instances of persons functioning according to God in relation to the saints, that is the antitype of what we have here, such as the house of Chloe and Stephanas in Corinth. In Romans you have a large list of persons who are saluted. That means that they are material acceptable for the tabernacle. The idea was they should be at Rome in the very midst of the world, the wilderness, that God's will should be apparent there. So that you can understand that when Phoebe went there and brought her letter and it was read (and possibly the epistle was brought by her), what exercises there would be as to all this in Caesar's very capital, that the will of God should be maintained in His people.

A.B.P. The household of Stephanas, the first-fruits of Achaia, was baptised, and we find a long time later they were all addicted to the service of the saints.

J.T. That is a good illustration, as I was remarking, of what is acceptable.

H.H. It would enter into what is local. You would expect to find assembly features in any local company; such a meeting's commencing would not be justified if the material were not there.

J.T. Quite so; there must be some material of this kind. The principal thing is subjection.

A.J.D. The great principle of subjection is referred to in that connection in the end of 1 Corinthians referring to the household of Stephanas. "I beseech you, brethren (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the first-fruits of Achaia, and they have devoted themselves to the saints for service), that ye should also be subject to such, and to everyone joined in the work and labouring". The great principle of subjection enters into that kind of thing.

J.T. Quite so, and right through.

S.P. Does the appreciation of this wealth that is found with each man and woman preserve us from being purely local in our thoughts? It has all Israel in view.

J.T. It is one thought; it is one tabernacle; so that the principles in all the gatherings must be of the same kind.

Ques. Would it be exemplified in the churches in Macedonia? "But they gave themselves first to the Lord, and to us by God's will", 2 Corinthians 8:5.

J.T. Very good.

Ques. Is Lydia like one of these women? It says the Lord opened her heart. In chapter 35 is it not a heart matter?

J.T. That is what we should see. It is a heart matter, and the heart is functioning according to God even as departing from Moses, not immediately under his eye and direction. We are trustworthy, that is what is meant, I think, in these verses, and can be relied upon, and all are brought into it, men and women

and the principal men, too, I believe that is the test, when we are out from under each other's eye. It is all well when we are together in times like this, but when we depart each into his own setting, his own house and business, then how is it? Can we be trusted to carry out the impressions that we may get here under the Lord's influence and direction?

C.A.M. Your reference to saluting the saints seems to be an interesting matter. Saluting one another has been a great exercise, whether we can really salute one another as having respect for one another as assembly material.

J.T. That is the idea in Romans 16. The salutations are each based on something; something that enters into tabernacle construction. How can I salute what is incongruous? You cannot do this. It is what is worthy of salutation. Hence the idea of a holy kiss, that our salutations are not worldly. The shaking of hands and expressions of sympathy and fellowship ought to be holy, not promiscuous or loose, because the tabernacle is to be in mind, and all is to be in accord with the material proper to it. We cannot salute anything else, brethren under discipline and the like. Discipline is essential; it is impossible to get through the wilderness without it and in all these matters "endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace", Ephesians 4:3. That is, we are moving together, otherwise the tabernacle is only a term; it ceases to be what it is meant to be.

H.H. The thing took form in Romans 16, "Salute Prisca and Aquila ... and the assembly at their house". It was all there, was it not? The apostle's mind is concentrated on what stands connected with the assembly.

J.T. The assembly is being led up to, as mentioned in the last paragraph of the book. In regard to salutations, it says at the end of the list, "Salute

one another with a holy kiss", 1 Corinthians 16:20. Salute one another. Paul had mentioned certain and given reasons, but every saint in Rome is to be taken account of in this way. The salutation or kiss, or symbol of affection, is to be holy, and it cannot be holy unless it recognises the material proper to the tabernacle.

J.S. Do you think the salutations there would be in accordance with the formative work of God only?

J.T. That is what I was thinking. He begins with Phoebe -- what a sister she was! -- then Priscilla and Aquila, "my fellow-workmen in Christ Jesus (who for my life staked their own neck; to whom not I only am thankful, but also all the assemblies of the nations) and the assembly at their house", Romans 16:3, 4. There is a reason for these salutations.

Rem. In mentioning names it is not the names, not any particular persons, but certain features represented in the meaning of the names.

J.T. That is good; so that you have tabernacle construction in principle in those salutations qualified.

Ques. We all value Priscilla and Aquila in view of what they did for Paul; we have profited greatly, have we not?

J.T. "To whom not I only am thankful, but also all the assemblies of the nations", Romans 16:4.

C.H.H. Would the material in Romans 16 form the basis of Ephesians as the teaching in Exodus would pave the way for Leviticus?

J.T. That is right. We must have the tabernacle set up. That is what we are coming to in the last chapter; it is the structure set up. What a pleasure it was to God! That would all be in mind. Leviticus is in mind, for that is where the service is carried on. Here it is the tabernacle set up and the material all marked by, "as Jehovah had commanded Moses". Everything is according to that, and then it passes under the eye of the mediator; that is, Christ in type, as in the verse read in chapter 39, "according

to all that Jehovah commanded Moses. So had the children of Israel done all the labour. And Moses saw all the work, and behold, they had done it as Jehovah had commanded -- so had they done it; and Moses blessed them". I think that is a very fine thought to have in mind; that things are all done. They finished the work, it says, "according to all that Jehovah had commanded Moses"; but after all that, it comes under Moses. It comes under the eye of Christ.

C.H.H. Chapter 40 is what Moses does; whereas chapter 39 is what the people do.

J.T. What the people do and what he does in passing his eye over it.

J.S. Do we see in chapter 35 how the people take all the instructions given by Moses? We see the inward work in those whose hearts were moved and whose spirits prompted them.

J.T. That is the setting according to what we had yesterday; that is, chapter 34 is the counterpart of chapter 24. What intervenes is only to throw lustre on chapter 34 -- what Moses was. What an increase there was in him, so that he comes down from the mountain shining! The glory was there where it could be most appreciated, in the face of a man, and the meekest man in all the earth. There was nothing retaliatory about him. It is in his face, the face of Jesus. Now it is to take on that glory, 2 Corinthians opens up the idea of the saints taking on glory; they "are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit" (chapter 3: 18). There is the image of Christ. We are all to be alike from this point of view. There is enrichment, "from glory to glory". I believe that is what is implied in chapter 35. The saints are glorified. They have taken on glory from the face of Moses and all these sacrifices and gifts are just what we are ourselves in obedience. As Paul says, "When your obedience is

fulfilled", 2 Corinthians 10:6. When the generality of the saints are brought into obedience, then the Lord can deal with special cases that are hardened.

H.H. Does it not say that God must have a vessel of habitation? In Noah's day it was the ark; now it is the assembly. Everything is here in Christ. Does it not emphasise the importance of responding to divine requirements in that way?

J.T. As to having the ark?

H.H. I mean Noah's ark. If God was to bring in another world, the ark was a necessity. If God was to be in Israel, the people had to supply the material that God might be amongst them. Does it not carry forward to our day, that we are to be for God's pleasure as apart from every other thing?

J.T. So that as Moses scrutinises all, he not only approved but blessed them. The word 'approved' is an important word, too, "approved of God"; but then there is more than that. Chapter 39 is approval; chapter 40 is complacency in the approval, the complacency of love. God says, I not only love you, but you are great enough to be the residence of My glory. What an immense thought that is! so that obedience is the thought running right through here.

A.R. Hence the importance of chapters 35 and 36, to develop a general state of holiness amongst the saints, do you think?

J.T. That is right. It worked out from the glory in the face of Moses and then the sabbath in the beginning of the chapter; that is to say, the saints are learning to take on the glory and take on the benefits of the environment. "We all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face", we take on things. The sabbath in chapter 35 means the saints are to learn to lie fallow; not simply to read books but to absorb the thoughts, the glory of the environment; and then that works out in the second

section, where they depart from Moses. It is remarkable how the Spirit of God goes over these items. He is thinking of the saints; He tells them what is needed. He loves to go over the ground and look at us, and speak about us. That is the first half of the chapter; then they depart from Moses and verse 20 shows their response, and how they love to bring all these wonderfully rich things out of willing and prompted hearts.

A.R. Because chapter 36 shows that they were so willing they had to be told not to bring; they were bringing so much.

J.T. What a difference that is from chapter 32, after Moses' first visit to the mountain, where they had the golden calf! What should have been for the tabernacle was devoted to it.

C.H.H. So in taking on the glory, as you say, it would be a result of subjection and obedience, leading on to the extension of glory as seen in the end of chapter 40. There would be glory to God in the assembly.

S.J.H. Is this bringing to Moses a definite act? They brought their gifts to Moses. Is there a definite transaction in it?

J.T. I think so. The Lord is saying virtually. If you are to be in the tabernacle, it is to be on My terms. So they give themselves to the Lord, as has been remarked; that meant that the rights of the Lord and the rights of God were fully owned by the saints in Macedonia; then in Thessalonica Paul says of them, "Ye became followers of us, and of the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 1:6), another touch. Paul was their ideal so far, but they were not content with that; they became followers of the Lord. Paul was not a party man, great as he was. As they followed him, they became followers of the Lord. The Lord must be the test throughout.

S.P. Would you say that the contribution of this great wealth to the tabernacle as coming under the scrutiny of Moses would remove any thought of conspicuousness in the gifts presented? The giver would be content with Moses' scrutiny.

J.T. You do not want your contribution to be intruding; everything has to come under the Lord. Moses blessed it all; then in chapter 40 "Jehovah spoke to Moses, saying, On the day of the first month, on the first of the month, shalt thou set up the tabernacle of the tent of meeting", and in verse 9, "Thou shalt take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle, and all that is in it". The fact that everything was well done, everything done in obedience, and with willing hearts, was not enough. God says, I must put the finishing touches on this. The anointing means the heavenly touch; that is what verse 9 means.

A.R. I was wondering if first coming under the hand of Moses and taking account of material, we would become willing now to be put in our places in the tabernacle according to his disposition in chapter 40. I have to be submissive as to the place he may put me in, do you think?

J.T. Yes, I have passed the scrutiny of Moses now, and I am conscious the Lord is pleased with me, because that is the idea here, one gets clear for oneself. Then the next thing is that you are to be doing well in your own house; you are reading and making headway, and the Lord is pleased with that, too; but the tabernacle is another thought. It takes on others as well as yourself, and you must fit in with them. There are those who would like to drag things down to a lower level. There were others also. Paul says to Timothy, "The things thou hast heard of me in the presence of many witnesses, these entrust to faithful men, such as shall be competent to instruct others also", 2 Timothy 2:2. Now we are in the period of the "others" and we may think in ourselves that

our measure is equal to their measure, but it is not. Romans 12 shows that you must see to your own measure. There may be men far beyond you even among the "others". The principle is that 2 Timothy does not make 1 Timothy obsolete; 1 Timothy is still in force, and what God gives must be there. A man is what he is, even if he comes in on the last day of the assembly's history on earth, and we must recognise that. Romans 12:3 recognises that. Every man must find his measure, according to the measure God has apportioned to each. That makes me humble, "But to think so as to be wise, as God has dealt to each a measure of faith", because after all, it is all God's work. Look at that brother, God would say; he calls attention to this one and the other one, and the salutations mean that; that each is distinguished. So that each of us, therefore, has to be sober, although you say I belong to the "others", how are you going to measure up with the "others"? because in David's history the mighty are at the beginning in Chronicles, and at the end in 1 Samuel. The idea runs right through. It is the work of God and as the work of God we must recognise it.

C.H.H. So Paul would be anxious for you to think just as well of different brethren as he did.

J.T. Quite so. Well, we have to keep all this in mind; because we are so apt to flatter ourselves that we are equal to the "others", but after all a man is what he is. Let him not mistake it; there is no mistake in heaven. The measure of God is the measure of God and we are each to take account of it.

J.H-t. Is that what the apostle is bringing forward in the end of the epistle to the Colossians? He mentions three persons there as being beloved, but then he also brings in certain distinctive features about them; and at the end of the epistle, he asks that the letter be read to the Laodiceans also.

J.T. That is good. In each of these cases, generally the salutations are on a certain basis; there is a good reason for them. Perhaps we may see now, so as to get all we can, that chapter 36 is the outcome of the glory in the face of Jesus. That is the setting of it, and that the saints are trustworthy; you can trust them when they are out of your sight; they will not change their minds after they leave the meeting. They departed from Moses, and everyone brought his offering unselfishly. Notice how the women gave up their earrings and that sort of thing. It is the work of God in them to do that, to give up their mirrors; you may be sure it is a real work of God that leads women to give up these things.

E.P. The apostle says in Romans 16, "Your obedience has reached to all, I rejoice therefore as it regards you", and then he closes with that passage, "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you".

J.T. How much that thought is stressed; it is really a universal thought, "For obedience of faith among all the nations", Romans 1:5. So that we have one tabernacle. There are universal conditions; so that in observing these things, we keep the unity of the Spirit. We have an ear to hear what God is doing everywhere and what the enemy is doing also, and know what is what. We do not put a premium on ignorance. I ought to know what is current.

R.A.L. What is involved in the last verse of chapter 39, "Moses blessed them"? Not only did God put the finishing touch on the tabernacle, but "Moses blessed them".

J.T. It is the sense you have of the Lord, as you bring yourself to the Lord. It is great to weigh over in the presence of the Lord our whole history. The Lord likes that; because in that wonderful grace chapter in Luke 15, the idea is a "repenting sinner". It is one that is always at it. The longer you live, the more you will repent according to that, and that

means I am in the presence of the Lord, and the Lord gives me to understand what He thinks of me. We ought to think of understanding with the Lord as to what He thinks of us. I believe that is what is meant.

A.R. Do you think the reason we are so ignorant of what is current is because we have the wrong kind of books in our book cases?

J.T. Quite so. These features which are to be contributed to the tabernacle are to be found also in the households.

J.H. As "Salute Prisca and Aquila ... and the assembly at their house".

J.T. I think so. The assembly in the house would mean the tabernacle is there, and that the books around are in accord with that; that what is around the house is in accord with the assembly. I believe it is a distinction attached especially to Priscilla and Aquila; they had the assembly in their house.

J.R.H. As to this thought of taking on glory, how far does the assembly enter into that?

J.T. If you look at the connection in 2 Corinthians 8:6, I think you will see that enters into it. "So that we begged Titus that, according as he had before begun, so he would also complete as to you this grace also"; that is, You are to complete the doing of it in chapter 35. "But even as ye abound in every way, in faith, and word, and knowledge, and all diligence, and in love from you to us, that ye may abound in this grace also. I do not speak as commanding it, but through the zeal of others, and proving the genuineness of your love. For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that for your sakes he, being rich, became poor, in order that ye by his poverty might be enriched. And I give my opinion in this, for this is profitable for you who began before, not only to do, but also to be willing, a year ago. But now also complete the doing of it; so that as there

was the readiness to be willing, so also to complete out of what ye have. For if the readiness be there, a man is accepted according to what he may have, not according to what he has not. For it is not in order that there may be ease for others, and for you distress, but on the principle of equality; in the present time your abundance for their lack, that their abundance may be for your lack, so that there should be equality. According as it is written, He who gathered much had no excess, and he who gathered little was nothing short. But thanks be to God, who gives the same diligent zeal for you in the heart of Titus. For he received indeed the entreaty, but, being full of zeal, he went of his own accord to you; but we have sent with him the brother whose praise is in the glad tidings through all the assemblies; and not only so, but is also chosen by the assemblies as our fellow-traveller with this grace, ministered by us to the glory of the Lord himself, and a witness of our readiness; avoiding this, that any one should blame us in this abundance which is administered by us; for we provide for things honest, not only before the Lord, but also before men. And we have sent with them our brother whom we have often proved to be of diligent zeal in many things, and now more diligently zealous through the great confidence he has as to you. Whether as regards Titus, he is my companion and fellow-labourer in your behalf; or our brethren, they are deputed messengers of assemblies, Christ's glory. Shew therefore to them, before the assemblies, the proof of your love, and of our boasting about you", 2 Corinthians 8:7 - 24. In the next chapter he also touches and enlarges on these same thoughts, so as to bring out their obedience in this matter. So that manifestly what we are speaking of now in Exodus is a type of what we have got in 2 Corinthians, how the glory of Christ is seen in the messengers of assemblies, entirely subject in carrying out the divine thought of

giving, giving freely, giving voluntarily, according as each one is able to do.

A.R. Giving in relation to another assembly is really a question of what you have in a material way.

J.T. That is what is dealt with; but it is a question of your love, so it is really the same thing. Whatever the giving may be, whatever the sacrifice, it is all the tabernacle material.

Ques. Is there any analogy between the end of Luke 24 and the end of Exodus 39? The Lord Jesus speaks to the disciples and tells them to remain in the city until they be endued with power from on high; and then He was taken up into heaven, and as going up He blesses them. It says here, "Moses blessed them". I was wondering whether it precedes in that way the gift of the Holy Spirit.

J.T. I think that is good. The Lord blesses them as going up, but then there is something following the anointing. The anointing comes down which is an additional thing, and that is what we get in chapter 40.

C.A.M. We have a sort of tendency to make this matter of giving apply to some specific material gift, but what the Lord is pressing is what is behind the gift. It may be very small, but the thing for us to be exercised about is what is behind the giving.

J.T. "God loves a cheerful giver", 2 Corinthians 9:7. It is not a cheerful gift but giver. It is the person behind all this.

A.B.P. As a practical application, if I get an increase in salary I should be concerned about why the Lord gave it to me. There may be need somewhere that the Lord intends it to fill.

J.T. That is a practical way to put it; not that we are here to get out of the brethren material things. After all, they are very little, but what is behind them? "The proof of your love", he says. "God loves a cheerful giver". If I have an increase of

income then I afford an incentive to God to love me. The Lord looks upon me in that way, "The Father loves me, because I lay down my life", John 10:17. If I give Him an incentive He gives me to understand that He loves me on account of that. That is really the way saints progress, I believe. It would be wholesome for us to think if there is an increased income, what does the Lord intend me to do with it? What are we doing with it? Why has He given it to us?

A.J.D. The Lord puts a very wonderful appraisal on the widow's two mites -- she gives more than they all, "For all these out of their abundance have cast into the gifts of God; but she out of her need has cast in all the living which she had", Luke 21:4.

J.T. On that line there are two things to be said. The Acts contemplates men who are well off that give. Those well off in Antioch give to meet the famine conditions, but in 2 Corinthians the apostle speaks of people who are very poor, but he says, "free-hearted liberality", 2 Corinthians 8:2. That is what God likes. It is the persons. A man is accepted according to what he has; because it is material for the tabernacle. You say, that man in that town, he is standing alone. Is he tabernacle material? That man at Decapolis, if he is tabernacle material he will link on with what God is doing everywhere.

Rem. What the Lord gives us spiritually should be for those that need it spiritually, and not money, not our material wealth. We should be exercised that we should have spiritual wealth to minister to the poor of the flock, not poor in money, but poor in spirit.

J.T. Do not say, 'not money', because God says a good deal about the money. How it shows what the man who gives it is. Do not forget that money is a great thing with God; not that He looks for the money in itself, but because of the givers of it, and why they give it.

Rem. Hebrews 13 speaks of spiritual sacrifice, "The fruit of our lips" and "To communicate forget not" (verses 15, 16).

J.T. Quite so; they are called "such sacrifices"; they are not spiritual exactly, but the man is spiritual, and with such sacrifices the Lord is well pleased.

J.H. Some of us have been hearing lately that the glory is radiant love. Does the thought express that the love of Christ is to radiate through His assemblies, through these messengers?

J.T. I think that is the meaning of it, "Christ's glory", that is the meaning of it; it enters into giving, "He was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor", 2 Corinthians 8:9. So that Christ's glory is in that question of giving. The chapters end with this, "thanks be to God for his unspeakable free gift", 2 Corinthians 9:15.

F.L-s. I was wondering if we do not see it in the end of Acts 2, the Spirit of what you are referring to, in a beautiful way behind the material giving; there was a spiritual wealth in the souls of these men. There we see the first love of the assembly brought out.

J.T. Quite so; you see the tabernacle set up there and it says the Lord added to that "such as should be saved"; as much as to say, 'I can add to that'. It is tabernacle conditions and what is suitable to it; so the Lord added "such as should be saved".

A.R. Numbers 7 shows the tabernacle is set up, and twelve men giving. God gives them a day each.

J.T. Quite so. There you see the giving develops into speaking, oracular communications from God, another great side to our position. We shall have ministry from God if we are liberal in giving. God will not go on with us if we are not moved by what is already given us. The giving in Numbers 7 leads to oracular communications in the sanctuary, in the holiest, an immense thought! Perhaps we never thought of that; that depends on our giving and

liberality, spiritually or otherwise. But here the giving leads up to a residence for God, for His glory; as much as to say, 'I am so pleased with all this, I am coming in to fill the whole scene with My glory'.

A.J.D. It is important that all our localities should be put on a right basis from the point of view of liberal giving.

J.T. I believe the local gatherings are small in this country because of the want of liberality. As soon as we begin to give, to sacrifice, you will see God increasing. In Acts 2 the Lord added; He will add to the conditions. We should have these conditions.

J.H-t. Is that not a promise? In Deuteronomy 14, the saints of God tithing themselves, it says, "that Jehovah thy God may bless thee in all the work of thy hand which thou doest" (verse 29).

E.F. Do you think those who are responsible in care meetings, those who take up matters, making arrangements, should provide circumstances in which this giving can take place. I was thinking you have the opportunity for spiritual giving in what we call the ministry meeting, and the counterpart of that is the special collections for the Lord's work. If we do not have them, there is not the opportunity for giving in that way.

J.T. I believe that is good. There is a good link there, the opportunity for spiritual ministry in what we call the ministry meeting. So that brethren who have something can contribute; and then the counterpart of that is a special collection for the Lord's work. If these two things go together, we shall have communications from God, and we shall have conditions.

S.P. It would contribute to better circulation.

J.T. Quite so.

C.A.M. I am sure that what you say as to this matter of getting rich by giving is encouraging. It

seems that would be a great leverage. Paul speaks of God's "unspeakable free gift", 2 Corinthians 9:15.

J.T. Where the spirit of liberality is, we shall find throughout this country and the United States, as the opportunity is given for it, that we shall have increase. I believe that is the line exactly on which we shall have increase. "There were added", it says in Acts 2:41; it does not say who added them; but the conditions were better lower down; they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine, in the breaking of bread and prayers, and in giving; and then it says, "the Lord added". The Lord says, 'I am ready to own that; I can add to that; it is suitable'. I believe that is the basis of real gathering and of real increase amongst us.

J.S. Does it show formation in the divine nature, that we become like God as a giving God?

J.T. Quite so; the tabernacle is to reflect what God is.

A.R. The wilderness is no place for us to stay in. The tabernacle was to suggest the idea of movement. We are not here to stay; we are just on a temporary basis. I think the idea of giving would save us from having big houses and settling down here in the wilderness.

J.T. Quite so; big houses and big cars.

W.J.C. Would you say that God Himself has been enriched by giving?

J.T. I think morally He has become greater in our eyes.

W.J.C. What He has secured for Himself He would have got in no other way.

J.T. Quite so. The Lord talks with the woman of Samaria, "If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is", John 4:10. "Thanks be to God for his unspeakable free gift", 2 Corinthians 9:15. Moses came in here; we see what this means; they passed Moses and he blessed them. As in the end of Luke, the

Lord blessed them, and went up, and the answer to that was the Spirit coming down. They were to remain at Jerusalem until He came down. After all the excellent workmanship seen in the disciples they must wait for the Spirit's coming down, because the tabernacle is to represent what is in heaven. It is a type of the assembly of our own times. It is not millennial. It is what comes down; it is the Spirit coming down, like verses 9 to 16 here: "And thou shalt take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle, and all that is in it, and shalt hallow it, and all its utensils; and it shall be holy. And thou shalt anoint the altar of burnt-offering, and all its utensils; and thou shalt hallow the altar, and the altar shall be most holy. And thou shalt anoint the laver and its stand, and hallow it. And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons near, at the entrance of the tent of meeting, and bathe them with water. And thou shalt clothe Aaron with the holy garments, and anoint him, and hallow him, that he may serve me as priest. And thou shalt bring his sons near, and clothe them with vests. And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may serve me as priests. And their anointing shall be to them an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations. And Moses did so: as Jehovah had commanded him, so did he". Now we have heaven come down in its dignity and power. So the whole scene is moving as reflecting what is above. The garments of the priests here ought to be mentioned, they are glorious. Allusion has just been made to Luke 24, "Do ye remain in the city till ye be clothed with power from on high" (verse 49); that is the garment, the glorious power of the Spirit come down and covering us; and so the priesthood here, the garment, as mentioned, is stressed here; our clothing is to be dignified and glorious.

J.S. I thought there could be no true representation of what was in the heaven apart from the

anointing of the Spirit; He who is from heaven. He is holy.

C.A.M. I suppose this matter of clothing is one way of God's emphasising the personal distinction of each one, the matter of persons. I can see that giving is according to the persons, but this clothing makes them distinctive, does it not?

J.T. Yes; and then here you will notice the repetition of the thing, "that they may serve me as priests" (verse 15). That must not be overlooked in all this wonderful array of wealth in the saints for a dwelling for God. We must remember that He is to be ministered unto.

W.J.C. There is a distinction evidently in these verses as to what is to be anointed; the first is certain things, the tabernacle, and then you get persons.

J.T. The first is "Thou shalt take the anointing oil and anoint the tabernacle and all that is in it, and shalt hallow it and all its utensils; and it shall be holy". That is a great general thought; and the tabernacle is anointed in all its parts. That is the first thing, inclusive of what is inside, and, of course, would include persons as well as what is specified now; only what is specified now alludes more to what is public. "And thou shalt anoint the altar of burnt-offering, and all its utensils; ... thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons near, at the entrance of the tent of meeting". It is the public side of the position that is specified here. The other is generalised. We get later all the utensils mentioned one by one as anointed and set up; but here it is the great general thought first, and then what is more public; that is to say, what we are as coming together publicly in assembly in any given place.

C.H.H. What is the distinction between receiving the Holy Spirit and anointing? Would you say all who have received the Spirit are anointed?

J.T. Only in the sense of potentiality. The apostle brings three things together as if applicable to the Corinthians after they had judged themselves. He says, "He that ... has anointed us, is God, who also has sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts", 2 Corinthians 1:21, 22. There are three features of the Spirit, and the first thing is the anointing; it is as if that is the point at Corinth, what is public. Anointing is more in what is public, what men see. So in the assemblies, it is the anointing first. Everything is to be done in the power of that when we come together. But the Spirit is also viewed as the seal of God's ownership of us; that is, the assembly of God in the place. Then finally it is enriched by the earnest of the inheritance; so that as we are together, I think the order is the Spirit saying, "Lord Jesus" (1 Corinthians 12:3), and all being done in the dignity and power of the anointing. So in 1 Corinthians 12:12, "So also is the Christ", that is the public thing here anointed; and as we proceed in our service, I think the Spirit comes in as the Spirit of adoption; it is more an inner thing; and that is the reason why I think the outward things are specified here as anointed; because God is concerned that the public situation should be according to Him, according to the anointing; otherwise we cannot enter inside.

A.J.D. Does the anointing refer to what others can take account of in a dignified and orderly way?

J.T. That is right; it is what is public.

H.H. It justifies the notices.

J.T. Quite so; the giving out of notices -- all that comes into the public side. The anointing is stressed as attaching to that. If the public side is right, it will take care of the private side. The private side is the normal issuance from that. We get a spirit of adoption.

A.R. Perhaps we are concerned sometimes as to how we end our morning meetings, but should we not

be concerned as to how we commence them? If we begin right, we shall finish right.

J.T. I think so; the Spirit of adoption will find its place if the public side is right, if the anointing is there. Elsewhere, we are told the altar was anointed seven times because it is a question of giving, of sacrifice; it is a spiritual thing, not merely to make a show of myself.

W.J.C. The giving out of a hymn should be in the power of the anointing.

J.T. Quite so.

C.C.S. Why is the altar described as most holy?

J.T. I think because of being public; we are so apt to discredit and think lightly of the public side of things.

W.J.C. The anointing is available for us in all that we do.

J.T. Quite so. The anointing oil is there; so the Lord goes up and the Spirit comes down according to that.

Ques. In 1 Corinthians 12:3, you referred to the saints saying, "Lord Jesus". Is that the thought you are stressing, that it brings in the power of the anointing?

J.T. I think that is where the power of the anointing is applicable. No one can say. Lord Jesus, except by the Spirit. An unconverted man can easily say Lord Jesus; but the apostle is speaking about assembly service and how it cannot really be said aside from the power of the Spirit.

E.P. Do you think in that way we are preserved from human innovations? Moses had great dignity in this chapter, did he not?

J.T. I think so; the anointing is the test of everything.

R.A.L. Is giving out a hymn at the beginning of the meeting in connection with the anointing or in the power of the Spirit?

J.T. The anointing is the Spirit.

R.A.L. Is there not a difference between the way announcements are given out and the way in which I stand up to praise God?

J.T. The anointing here as a type alludes to the thing being done in the power of the Spirit, that you do not do it as a natural man; that is what is meant. But the additional thought as to the Spirit is the spirit of adoption which belongs more to the inner side of our position.

C.A.M. I was thinking in that connection, the great desire amongst the saints to know this inner thing, this wonderful matter about the Spirit of sonship. The very fact that the Lord is calling attention to these outward things to rid us of human ideas, should in itself be an encouragement that our spirits should not faint in any way about it, do you not think?

J.T. Quite so. I think the Lord is greatly helping as to what is according to His own mind spiritually. The tide of apostasy is more rampant than most of us are aware of. The Lord is meeting it by reality; however small or despised the people may be, the Lord has something answering to the mind of heaven, it is the tabernacle conditions. It is an immense victory that it is so. We shall be helped if we see the order of the thing and each placing himself under Moses and taking on the idea of the tabernacle. There shall be one tabernacle, whether I am isolated or in a small meeting, the one tabernacle applies. I must be in the light of that to keep the unity of the Spirit, to know about what is current everywhere, to have assembly ears, to hear and be in accord with all that is according to the tabernacle. So that the testimony is maintained universally. So now what you get after the anointing is in verses 17 to 20: "And it came to pass in the first month in the second year, on the first of the month, that the tabernacle was set

up. And Moses set up the tabernacle, and put in its bases, and fixed its boards, and put in its bars, and set up its pillars. And he spread the tent over the tabernacle, and put the covering of the tent above over it; as Jehovah had commanded Moses. And he took and put the testimony into the ark". Think of the magnitude of that expression. The ark of the testimony is there and he put the testimony into the ark: what God has in His mind. Everything now is set up and is functioning, everything in the ark as the ark has its place and the testimony is in the ark; and then he put the staves in the ark, meaning that it is to be a movable state of things. We are to be moving on. "And put the mercy-seat above on the ark. And he brought the ark into the tabernacle, and hung up the veil of separation, and covered the ark of the testimony; as Jehovah had commanded Moses. And he put the table in the tent of meeting, on the side of the tabernacle northward, outside the veil". It is functioning; and he "arranged the bread in order upon it before Jehovah; as Jehovah had commanded Moses, ... And he lighted the lamps before Jehovah"; they are functioning, too, and there is fragrant incense burning as the altar is mentioned and then "He hung up the curtain of the entrance to the tabernacle. And he put the altar of burnt-offering at the entrance to the tabernacle of the tent of meeting, and offered on it the burnt-offering and the oblation; as Jehovah had commanded Moses". No time is lost; the service is already on: "And he set the laver between the tent of meeting and the altar, and put water in it for washing. And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet out of it, when they went into the tent of meeting". It is also functioning, and "He set up the court round about the tabernacle and the altar, and hung up the curtain of the gate of the court. And so Moses finished the work". Now there

it is; the whole thing is there, and every item is doing its part, there is no unreadiness; each one is in his place and functioning, and then we have the cloud covering the tent; as if God said, 'Now I am taking all that on'. God set dignity upon all that; God protects it; and the glory filled the tabernacle.

A.J.D. It is remarkable how many times, "as Jehovah had commanded Moses" is repeated in this paragraph you have just read.

J.T. It is very noticeable. What can it be but God stressing the idea of obedience upon us? There are to be no innovations at all.

C.H.H. There are seven different groups of things ending by "as Jehovah had commanded Moses". I was wondering if those things could be put together as separate items, but hanging together.

J.T. There is a good deal in that. In verses 16, 19, 21, 23, 25, 27 and 32; as it has been remarked, the repetition of that phrase is very striking.

A.H.P. Have you any thought why in 2 Chronicles 5, Moses, David, and Solomon are all brought together in relation to this great service, the glory of God filling it? I was wondering whether that would be a counterpart to the full thought.

J.T. To bring that together is very interesting.

A.H.P. Solomon assembling the elders of Israel.

J.T. Quite so.

H.H. Is not that the record of things after the breakdown in Chronicles, the record of things after everything has gone to Babylon publicly; so that the appreciation of these things is cherished in the hearts of the saints while the breakdown continues publicly?

J.T. It is said very early in 1 Chronicles that Judah was carried away captive because of their unfaithfulness, and then we have all the wonderful display of glory in the ministry by David and

Solomon, as if Judah missed all that in spite of the wonderful privilege in their midst.

C.H.H. In connection with the ministry of Moses, would it not teach us to put things together in order? should we not attain intelligence as to putting things together in order in the service?

J.T. The thing comes home to you that each one is an item. It is the parts being put in by the mediator, all passed upon and commanded, and being put in their place by the mediator, each put in its place. The instruction is, Am I in my place? Is the Lord having His way with me? Am I functioning? That is the way the thing should come. If I am not, I am marring the situation. The matter here is so pleasing to Jehovah. It says Moses finished the work and the cloud covered the tent of meeting. God says, 'I will take on all that; it is all pleasing to Me'. The cloud means I have the protection that God extends to that position. Our position is invulnerable, for the cloud covers us. The next thing is the glory of God filled the tabernacle. He is perfectly restful to abide and take up His resting place within.

J.S. "And they shall make me a sanctuary, that I may dwell among them", and He is seen to move now as to it.

J.T. I think that is it. Then what follows is to bring out the movableness of this; it contemplates movement, "When the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle the children of Israel journeyed in all their journeys. And if the cloud were not taken up, then they did not journey until the day that it was taken up. For the cloud of Jehovah was on the tabernacle by day, and fire was in it by night, before the eyes of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys" (chapter 40. 36 - 38). So that we are under protection of the divine residence there, and then moving entirely in accord with the mind of heaven. There is no room at all for man's will.

J.S. Heaven is seen now controlling the movements; they can only move as the cloud was taken up.

A.H. I was wondering whether you implied that the fire stands over against the exercise of man's will; whereas the cloud stands for the divine presence in a favourable way.

J.T. I think it is protection, a symbol of the divine presence, protected by day and by night. At the same time the thought of the residence, the glory filling the tabernacle.

A.J.D. Are these features to be understood by us locally and worked out by us locally?

J.T. Yes; the administrative side must be local, but we never forget that there it is one tabernacle. It is one; Peter mentioned three. It is to maintain the unity. What is done in one locality should be done everywhere; but it must be right; it must be a tabernacle matter.

C.H.H. What is involved in the moving of the cloud for us?

J.T. God is moving; God has a free hand. It is a symbol of God's presence. We have the cloud before the tabernacle. We have it in Egypt even, and how it moved behind the Israelites to protect them from the Egyptians; but now it is moving in relation to the structure. God would indicate His mind, in ministry it may be. The great principle here is subjection, anointing, each in his place, and then the glory and movement in relation to that.

C.H.H. Would movement be in connection with any fresh ministry that God may give us?

J.T. I think so. We have it in the Acts; Acts is the best tabernacle book in this sense. We see how the positions were altered.

C.H.H. So that in that connection it is essential that we move together.

J.T. Quite so, "Keep the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace", Ephesians 4:3.

A.R. In Numbers 10, where you get the first idea of movement, you get all the tribes moving and then the tribe of Dan moving last. There is no such thing as one tribe moving and not another, is there?

J.T. All moving, quite so. Each is his own place.

A.B.P. Do you have a concrete example of what we have been speaking of in Antioch? Barnabas has the sense of measure, he fits in with Saul, makes room for him, and then the cloud rests over the whole situation. The disciples were first called christians at Antioch. Then the service follows; there were prophets, those ministering to the Lord, and then the Spirit speaks.

J.T. Quite so. The Spirit is then free, and the Spirit spoke then, "Separate me now Barnabas and Saul", Acts 13:2. You can understand how the whole position focuses on this new movement. That was the thing.

Rem. Psalm 122 would give us a delightful setting of the position, "Jerusalem, which art built as a city that is compact together, whither the tribes go up, the tribes of Jah, a testimony to Israel, to give thanks unto the name of Jehovah!" (verses 3, 4). Is that the setting now as maintained in the power of the Spirit of God?

J.T. Quite so. A song of degrees; it is an upward movement.

S.P. Is there any connection with this and 2 Chronicles 6:3, "And the king turned his face and blessed the whole congregation of Israel"?

J.T. Quite so. The Lord's countenance being upon us, I suppose.

DIVINE COUNSEL

Revelation 3:18; Psalm 16:7; Nehemiah 5:6, 7; Proverbs 11:14

What is in view in this service is counsel, as the Scriptures read would indicate, not counsel in the sense of the eternal counsel of God that is spoken of, the counsel of His will, but counsel in detail as specifically rendered. Without it, as the passage in Proverbs shows, the people fall; and so it is divinely provided first of all in Christ. He leads in everything for us, in every feature of administrative service. He learned as a Man here in lowly grace how to obtain counsel, according to what I read in Psalm 16 and in keeping with what is said in the prophet Isaiah: "The Lord Jehovah hath given me the tongue of the instructed, that I should know how to succour by a word him that is weary. He wakeneth morning by morning, He wakeneth mine ear to hear as the instructed". These scriptures, dear brethren, are in no sense derogatory to the Person of our Lord Jesus Christ. On the contrary, they afford a feature of His glory that He could take up such a lowly attitude, an attitude suitable to the state into which He had come, becoming incarnate. It is part of His glory that He could speak in such a lowly way, saying even in this psalm, "Jehovah, Thou art the Lord: my goodness extendeth not to thee". The worshipper of God marvels, and yet accepts with intelligence the suitability of these utterances of Christ by the Spirit; that is, uttered before He became incarnate. The Spirit of Christ uttered them anticipatively in the power of compression that belonged alone to Him as being infinitely great as the scripture attests. God Himself become Man here. He could reduce Himself, so to speak, within such a compass. So this would

teach us humility and dependence, so that He understands as Man on high now, God over all, too, as He is said to be, and as blessed for ever; but as on high He has gone through these experiences on earth and actually received counsel. He would bless Jehovah who gave Him counsel. His reins also, He tells us in the scripture, instruct Him in the night seasons.

What food, dear brethren, is furnished for our souls, as in the Spirit of Christ we are lowly, as He speaks of Himself, offering Himself as a bondman for us: "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me; for I am meek and lowly in heart". What food is furnished for us in His words, receiving counsel from God as a Man here and saying, "My reins also instruct me in the night seasons". What seasons they were of wakefulness! We are told that as in Jerusalem for the last time, entering in with tears, for as it came to His view He wept over it, not for Himself for the sorrow He was about to endure: indeed He told the daughters of Jerusalem to weep not for Him, but He wept over Jerusalem. We are told that He, as having come in for the last time, for He was making His exit from Jerusalem through death, that He taught daily in the temple and in the nights He went to the mount of Olives. What nights He spent there, dear brethren! They are only, as it were, for our contemplation; they are not recorded save indeed as we get hints in the Psalms. "In the nights my reins instruct me", means the inward movements, the holy movements of Christ. As the different offerings were offered up, they are all typical of this, inwardly perfect, inwardly delightful to God; all went up as a sweet savour, those inward organs moving instructed Him. The suggestion for us is in our night seasons. No time in the life of faith is ever supposed to be wasted. The rest of our time is always precious. We are provided with opportunities. We are to learn that the nights are to be spent in this way. I speak

of it now as turning to the psalm; I speak of it now in regard of the Lord's own experience, as on high tonight, that He understands our circumstances; He understands perfectly. He has reached the place He is in through sufferings. He was tempted in all points such as we are, sin apart, so that He is able to succour those that are tempted. He knows the counsel we need and He will give it to us.

The liberality of His counsel is seen in the first scripture I read, the wide bearing it has. The letter is addressed to Laodicea, the last of the seven assemblies written to by our Lord. He immediately says to her, "Thou art neither cold nor hot". He knew exactly the state of things. It refers to christendom, not in its Babylonish, gross Babylonish character, but in that phase of it that would still own the lordship of Christ. It may be what would be called formalists, persons who hold to the Bible; for all of whom we give thanks, for all who love our Lord Jesus. He is speaking to such. He is not speaking to Philadelphia, which represents the living feature of the public body. That is a feature we can appreciate. Thank God there is such a feature, not only that there has been or will be, but there is. There is nothing I am more certain of than that, that a Philadelphia exists today. But Laodicea exists; a parallel is still seen, not scepticism, not moralism, not Rome, but that feature that would recognise the Bible and the authority of Christ formally, really, too, with some of them. He says, "I am about to spue thee out of my mouth" not because she was utterly cold or utterly hot, but lukewarm. It may be there is some lukewarm Christian here in this audience: this is a solemn word for you. The Lord does not like lukewarmness; He does not like modernism, higher criticism, as it is called; nor does He like Babylon the great with all her ramifications. He does not like lukewarm christians with the Bible

under their arm, and all that goes with the public profession of Christ. There is lukewarmness of heart. He does not like that; it is very tasteless to the Lord, and if there were nothing more than that on the earth for Him He would soon spue it out. But there is more; thank God there is more than that. There are christians whose hearts burn within them when they hear of Jesus, when they hear expositions of Scripture. That is not distasteful to the Lord. He is pleased to dwell with them. The Lord is more in this meeting that anyone here, or all of us together. He is pleased with us; I humbly say it is so. Through grace it is so, that we have sufficient interest in Him and His things, to turn aside to listen to something about Christ. But He is speaking now to the general profession in that particular assembly of Laodicea, and He gives counsel.

It may be that there is an unconverted person here tonight. The Lord is ready to give you counsel. You may have many a time spurned it from the brethren, turned away your shoulder from your parents when they would give you counsel; but now you are here tonight and the Lord would say, 'I would give you counsel; you are in great need: come, to Me'. There is no other hope; there is no other resource. The Lord says, "I counsel thee to buy of me gold purified by fire". You have not got anything now. The whole profession as viewed in its Laodicean phase is without gold, that is, what is of God. There is plenty of what is of man. 'See this fine building', says one; 'See this wonderful architecture', says another; 'See the number of communicants', says another; 'See the missionaries abroad', says another. That is all what man is doing and can do, not what God can do. It is what man is and what he can do. Oh, beloved, it is what God is and what is of God that is needed! What is said of christians is, "Of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who

has been made to us wisdom from God, and righteousness, and holiness, and redemption". Now that is objective, as we say. It is an objective presentation of fact, this great fact; but think of it, of God are we in Christ Jesus! We are christians. Whoever is holding that is a real christian from that point of view, "Of him are ye in Christ Jesus". We are not of man; as many as accept Christ, we are told, to him God gives title to take the place of His children, those that believe on His name, "Who have been born, not of blood nor of flesh's will nor of man's will, but of God". Man is entirely shut out in that sense. We are of God. Let us begin with that; it is an objective thought. However young the christian is, he is a babe in Christ. A babe in Christ gives him status before God, and before the brethren, too; he is of God and Christ is made unto him wisdom and righteousness and holiness and redemption. All is reckoned on Christ; it has to be understood and appropriated, and that is what the Lord is saying here; He is counselling you. He is God's wisdom, but now He is counselling you. You need what is of God in a characteristic way. I see you walk down the street, if I follow your history week in week out, and (although you are a christian, as we speak), your whole outlook and walk and ways are like man's ways. The Lord says that you need something that you have not got, and He counsels you to get it; and if you say, 'I have not got sufficient means to get it', the Lord says, 'I am ready to sell it to you'. There is a state of soul like that, and the Lord says in His grace, 'I am ready to sell what you need; come to Me and buy, and I counsel you to do it'. It is His last word to Laodicea. It is that phase of christendom I am speaking of.

Presently He is going to consider all as Babylon in regard of judgment; the whole system will go under one head, and the Lord is saying to some

christian here tonight, 'Do not you be judged with the world; your walk and ways are very like it now, and you are in grave and dire need of certain things, and I counsel you to come and buy of Me'. He has gold purified in the fire. That would be that what is needed for the christian is already tried. There is not a thing that any of us need that has not been well tried, well tested. It is not a question of trying now in Christianity; that has been well tried in the fire. It is all a question of what is of God, and the Lord says, 'I have got that very commodity that you need', tried in the fire, in His own precious death. How it was tested out and all made perfectly sure as He came out victoriously from the dead, for He was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father! Then there are other things that I cannot dwell upon for want of time, raiment and eye-salve. We need these three things: "Gold purified by fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white garments, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness may not be made manifest; and eye-salve to anoint thine eyes, that thou mayest see". Now these are the proposals of Christ and they are most affecting to those of us who understand chapters 2 and 3 of this book. The last phase is addressed to you, and the Lord is saying to you, to all of us that need these things, I will sell these things to you. The point is they are available. We who understand the gospel know they have been given to us, that God furnishes in Christ everything to us; but He is now addressing a certain state; it may be here, I do not know; but the Lord says, Have these three things, anyway; you are in dire need of them, otherwise spuing will take place. He says that He is about to do it.

Well now, in the passage in the psalm, as I said, the believer has a pattern in Christ, for He is our Leader, our Pattern and our Model, as I was saying already. What a blessed thing it is, dear brethren,

to stand alongside of the Lord Jesus as He has been pleased to come down so low, to come down to where we are, infinitely perfect in Himself, tempted in everything as we are, having to do with a contrary scene as no one else had to do with it! How He speaks of Jehovah who gave Him counsel! How He received it! It would only be in a priestly way that one would touch the blessed Saviour of all in such a lowly compass as we see in the psalm, but the priest may do it. The oblation, the meat-offering, is particularly for the priest: it is in a sense the food of the priest. The psalm is full of it, as we stand beside our Saviour and Lord as He was here below, looking up and saying, "I will bless Jehovah who giveth me counsel; even in the nights my reins instruct me". It is an isolated view of Christ; He is not in company with any here. His heart is towards "the saints that are on the earth, and to the excellent thou hast said, In them is all my delight".

No one who stands alongside Jesus will fail to value the brethren, to clothe them with the very best clothes available in heaven, as the father said to the bondmen, "Bring out the best robe and clothe him in it". That would be the attitude of the Lord. The saints were the excellent of the earth to Him. Think of Him finding His joy amongst them! He came in and went out amongst them. He said, "The lines are fallen unto me in pleasant places". Where were those pleasant places? Not in Solomon's porch, for it was winter! Not in Simon's house! No, not in any such places as these where He was met with severe opposition, but in Bethany, where love was! He went out to Bethany, we are told, at one time, and spent the night there. He came to Bethany six days before the passover, where Lazarus was, where Martha was, where Mary was. He is a Model for us here as to receiving counsel. Let no one assume that he does not need this; let no one be sufficiently legal

to deprive himself of such food as this, of such an object for contemplation, so that we might learn with humility of mind and with the saints in view, with the inheritance of God in view, that He has furnished us even now. Let us be simple enough to turn to God for counsel, to turn to the Lord who knows exactly what we need, and He gives it and in the night seasons, in the wakeful hours my reins instruct me, the blessed Spirit operating in these automatic organs with which God has furnished us, as the Lord said to the woman of Sychar, "A fountain of water, springing up into eternal life". We shall find instruction inwardly.

Well now, over against this, yet in keeping with it, I want to show from Nehemiah how difficulties amongst the brethren are met, and there are many. They are constant, one after another like waves on a troubled sea, nor may we expect to have it anything different if we are to be here in loyalty to Christ. How are we to meet them? Well, you say, There is the care meeting. We are not at that at the moment, that is Proverbs; but I am coming first to each of us who has these cares on our hearts, for a care meeting is nothing if those who attend it are not burdened. Now Nehemiah is one of the best examples of a brother occupied in the government of the house of God in type. He is a man as we have no doubt often noticed, who speaks a good deal about himself; we have to leave that. So it is with Paul, the Spirit of God makes Paul speak of himself, and Nehemiah speaks of himself, too, I do not compare him with Paul exactly, but anyway, he says here in the presence of a very great difficulty, "I consulted with myself", you will all remember the verse I read in Nehemiah 5. He says, "I was very angry when I heard their cry and these words". God did not question his anger, it was right; we ought to be, the Lord Himself was, we ought to be angry and

sin not. Nehemiah was angry, and why was he angry? It was because one set of brethren was oppressing the other set of brethren. He loved the brethren; he had no predilections at all; he was for God in these matters. He stood alone according to this chapter, first of all. One set of brethren was oppressing another set of brethren; it often happens. It is not physical pressure, but in one sense this often happens.

Meetings are often divided into sets, and we have to watch that, that we do not cease to be brethren. One is our Master in heaven and we are all brethren. Let the brother of high degree, the wealthy brother, glory in his humiliation; let the poor brother glory in his elevation. The humiliation is spiritual; the elevation is spiritual. The humiliation brings me on to the spiritual platform of mutual feeling among the brethren; the elevation brings me out of my littleness, for my very poverty may be considered a virtue in my mind. Poverty is never a virtue, it has become a virtue in the world: now the poor are becoming the masters of the world and appear more cruel than those of high degree; they are ruthless in their cruelty. What is developing is apostasy in that sense. Mere poverty or low social degree is no virtue. Not indeed that God has exalted the rich, as the apostle says, "Consider your calling, brethren", but he goes on to show that God is no respecter of persons; whether it be a royal personage, or a military personage, or a jailor, or a poor person who is nothing in this world, the gospel is for all, God is no respecter of persons.

So that the position here in Nehemiah is that he is angered on one occasion by the rich oppressing the poor, such oppression as was robbing the poor of their liberty. What a serious condition, one set of brethren oppressing another to the deprivation of their liberty, and, of course, robbing themselves of these very

brethren, making them slaves! If our brethren are rendered slaves they have little or no power in the assembly; we are really destroying the assembly in that sense, and we are robbing God; we are depriving our brethren of their liberty. We have to stand fast, every one of us, in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free. Anyone who deprives his brother of liberty is damaging the brother and robbing God. We have to contend with these things, and what I want to point out is that Nehemiah had no party friends. He had no party friends to turn to. The chief difficulty in meeting these exigencies that arise is in partisan appeal: persons who have some link in common take counsel with each other, secret counsel it may be, and party counsels, beloved brethren, in the very essence of them will crucify Christ. They never work God's righteousness. The politics of the world are divided into partisanships, but what poverty that leads to! What moral poverty there is! There is nothing spiritual in it whatever. There is no such thing in the millennium as the king's opposition; it is destructive of government according to God. The very idea of it is destructive of government according to God. But then, we have party government now, and God overrules it, but it is not God's idea, nor should it be amongst the brethren; that is what I am speaking about.

Well, you say, if we do not come together, some of us, we shall be overwhelmed. Will we be? shall we be overwhelmed? The Lord says, "I will bless Jehovah who giveth me counsel". Nehemiah says, "I consulted with myself". Now, you say, What good is that? Well, this really alludes to the reins of the man. It alludes to his inward spiritual power, the power of thought that he had, the power of weighing things. That is what is meant. If we have difficulties let us try this instead of taking counsel with some brother or brothers who think as we do.

It is destructive of the assembly; the very idea is destructive of the assembly. In fact, anything that takes you out of the ground of the assembly is destructive of it. So we may reach the desired end, but if we do it will not stand. Nehemiah says, "I consulted with myself", as much as to say, 'I have no partisans; I have no party in Jerusalem -- like many of the modern rulers'. God had one man to seek the welfare of the children of Israel. If you get a man like that you have something. Something will come about for God whatever numbers you have against him. God will work through him, and that is what happened here. So he says, as you will observe, "I consulted with myself; and I remonstrated with the nobles and the rulers, and said to them, Ye exact usury, every one of his brother! And I set a great assembly against them". That is what he did. What power he must have had -- moral power! Where did it come from? It came from God. He does not tell us that here. He shows the effect of that. He says, 'I will renounce all party feeling; I abominate it': "I consulted with myself". The point is, he took counsel with himself and the result of it. The Lord says to the apostles, "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations". Think of the order He gave twelve men; there were eleven there actually, for they were already decimated. The breach is healed in resurrection, as we learn in the Acts, but He said to these eleven men, "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations". What did He mean by that? He meant that every one of these men had moral power derived from the counsel of God -- eleven men! What will they not do? The Lord says that they are to make disciples of all nations. It is a question of moral power springing from a man that takes counsel with himself, his inwards are right, as in Romans 7; otherwise any inward counsel is confused, mixed up with all sorts of

motives and thoughts; that is, it is difficult to disentangle the right motives unless we go through Romans 7"I myself with the mind serve God's law". Anyone that does that is clear of all inward darkening influence and he can take counsel with himself. Thank God, we can take counsel with the Lord, too; we can pray. The effect here is seen; he says, "I set a great assembly against them". He did that. What power he had! Is it not an incentive to avoid all party counsel? Even if it must be met, let it be met on the ground of the assembly; it may be two of you, or two of us, or twenty of us, or fifty of us; the Lord will be with us, but the Lord will never support a party.

So I come to Proverbs: "Where no advice is, the people fall". You will understand that I am aiming at counsel, counsel as it is divinely furnished for the people of God. You will see in Proverbs 11 which I read, "Where no advice is the people fall; but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety". It is not final. In regard of our meetings for care, it is representative; we cannot be sure, until we reach the assembly, of finality according to God in these matters. The solution of all matters that arise in the history of the assembly is in the assembly itself. The Lord has the greatest concern that we should never give up the thought of the assembly. He says, "My assembly". If two of you pray, much will happen. "If two of you shall agree on the earth concerning any matter, whatsoever it may be that they shall ask, it shall come to them"; that is, two of the assembly. See what happened in Nehemiah's day! The result was reached; finality was reached. The nobles submitted and the brethren were delivered from bondage, a great result!

So here, if there is no counsel the people fall. We do not want the people to fall. Many have, and why have they fallen? Party counsel! Every sorrowful

deviation that has happened has been the outcome of party movement, certain ones together against others, and against the truth, too. The people fall where there is no counsel, and the passage means counsel according to God: "But in the multitude of counsellors there is safety", as when we come together in our care meetings. The Lord loves those meetings. It is a pleasure to be in them; one has privileges in that way. It is a real pleasure to be in them, and the chief pleasure is that we are in the sense that the Lord has pleasure in them and He loves them. But it is a question of safety. Safety is a great matter. In the assembly it is one of the greatest matters. That is, there is no move or action taken that might endanger the liberty of the saints lest they should fall. Even a weak brother has to be considered: "Destroy not him with thy meat for whom Christ has died". The greatest delicacy and care have to be employed, and it is in the multitude of counsellors, that is, counsellors according to God, men of wisdom. Surely we are to be children of wisdom. Wisdom is justified of all her children, and I believe the meeting for care in any locality is just that, that wisdom is justified of all her children. Every bit of advice given, every proposal made, is wisely made, not made to serve any party interest or selfish motive, but for the good of all, so that the people should not fall.

Well, that was all I had to say, and I commend especially this matter: "In the multitude of counsellors there is safety", and that the brethren might know, might have wisdom, each in his measure, for we are told that the very least esteemed in the assembly is supposed to be able to judge in secular matters. So everyone in the assembly is to be a child of wisdom. May God grant that it may be so.

HINDRANCES

2 Thessalonians 2:5 - 8; 1 Thessalonians 2:17, 18; Genesis 24:54 - 56; Acts 8:36 - 38

I have in mind to speak of hindrances -- hindrances by God, hindrances by Satan, hindrances by the brethren, and hindrances, as each of us may say, by oneself. Hindrances by God are negative, that is as might be expected; they are in view of dealing with what would interfere with His operations. Satan is bent on hindering God's work, and God operates to hinder him, to prevent satanic obstacles being effective against God's work. The word 'withholdeth' and the word 'let' in the verses read in 2 Thessalonians should be rendered 'restrains'. God could easily destroy anyone who interferes with His work at any time, but the word is not destruction, but restraint. God allows evil, whilst restraining it. This is often used by sceptical minds to malign God. Why allow these things? Why does God not interfere? Why does He not only restrain, but destroy? Scepticism plays a part on these lines, and we are to be on our guard for, though believers, we may be sceptical, and on account of this we should seek to know God better. If there is any tendency to scepticism, the antidote is to know God. He says, "Let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me". As we know Him we shall understand that what He permits, He permits wisely. He has permitted the very existence of sin in His universe. Scepticism says, Why? and maligns Him, questioning even the existence of God; but faith believes that God is, "He that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him". He rewards His people, and the greatest reward is the increased knowledge of Himself. As the knowledge of Himself increases, so scepticism is displaced, for

faith says, as the father of all believers said, "Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?" That question cannot be answered in the negative; it is uttered by a man who is the father of all believers, Abraham.

Hence, if we know evil is in the world -- and who that is reasonable can deny it? -- we do not charge God with the responsibility of it, nor assume lack of wisdom on His part in the allowance of it. We say, We know God has power to remove it and will do so, but it is in His ways and wisdom to allow it for the present. So as early as Abraham we have the utterance from the divine lips, "The iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full". We might say, Why allow it to become full? What are armies and navies for? What are our gaols and magisterial courts for? What is the law for, save the prevention of evil, to prevent its continuance? And yet God, in speaking to the father of believers says, "The iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full", giving that as His reason for the inheritance not yet coming into his possession -- a very remarkable fact. God has His own reasons according to principle, in allowing evil to develop in man, in Satan too, for it is clear from Scripture that Satan was once an unfallen being. He was in the garden of God; every precious stone was his covering; he was the anointed cherub that covers, but iniquity was found in him and he was rejected from his office, cast out though not destroyed; he could exist on. These are the facts made known to us. There are many others like them in the revelation of God in Scripture, which account for what exists.

So in our times iniquity is ripening, and allowed to ripen. God ordained governments, four great monarchies, and they were ordained not to annihilate evil, for to put away sin from the world is reserved for Christ. The monarchies were ordained for the restraint of evil, nothing more. There is such a thing as divine

restraint of evil, and evil worse than that of the Amorites. The apostle says to these young believers that he had told them about these matters. The Thessalonian christians are designated as the "assembly of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ". They were instructed as to this matter of antichrist. The way they are addressed indicates saints viewed in life, as loved by God, and correspondingly loved peculiarly by Paul. Such believers, as I said, are instructed as to these antichristian matters, and this extends to all, as what was given to them is given to us. "When I was yet with you, I told you these things". Paul says, Someone else came in and said the day of the Lord was present, which was a lie, but it was intended to distress the saints. They were distressed also as to departed ones, those fallen asleep, so the apostle gives a special message to such to allay their fears; and now this second letter dealing with the deception that came in, by some saying that the day of the Lord was present. Young believers are apt to take on novelties. The emissary of the devil suggested the day of the Lord was present, as tribulations were being experienced by the saints, and the apostle Paul says no one was to be listened to on that point, for that day would not come unless apostasy had first come. It has not yet come, but the mystery of lawlessness is already working. Leaven is increasing in virulence and taking form. The mystery of iniquity found its home in a religious setting, but now it is taking a political as well as a religious form, and when completed and both are fully combined we shall have antichrist in his time, but that is not yet. He has his allotted time, and that time implies that iniquity is come to a head, that it is fully ripe. We read of the winepress of wrath, meaning it is ripe. God waits for that, and we wonder why. Meantime saints are suffering, but it is not the day of the Lord. We do not want to listen

to the devil on that head, or we shall be deceived. It will not come, the apostle says, "Except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed". He tells the Thessalonians he had already spoken of this, but his time was coming, and meanwhile there is definite restraint. The apostle speaks of that which restrains, and He who restrains. I mention this, so that brethren may be helped and balanced as to current matters, that it is not yet the time of the antichrist. There is only one spoken of under that head; he is a subordinate, but one who is definitely against Christ, openly seeking to take on His character by imitation and satanic power and in all deceivableness of unrighteousness coming after the manner of Satan.

But there is what restrains and that is the basis of prayer at the present time. We should search for bases for our prayers. Scripture affords them. There are no circumstances in which we cannot find a basis in them for prayer. If prayer for the authorities, we have an example in Abraham, "He ... will pray for thee". That is for mercy for Abimelech, and he obtained it. So we are enjoined by Paul to pray for kings and those in authority, for they bear not the sword in vain. So that government is not to be prayed against, but prayed for, as today. Our prayers form part of the restraint that God speaks of. Antichristian elements in government as appearing, are against the truth, but persons in government positions represent the government, and in the abstract it is right and essential to our salvation. We cannot pray for the apostasy, but for the persons who may be exercising government. Who of the Caesars was a Christian? It is very doubtful if any, yet they are to be prayed for; we are to pray for all in authority. And again, we are told to be subject to all such, not in their exercise of apostate principles, but in their position in government. God is against apostasy, whether in them or in others. So here we have that

which restrains, and then again, "He who now letteth will let until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed" -- not before.

Whilst restraint is here we can pray, and can include being saved from this awful thing. Antichristian characteristics, whether political or religious, are Satan's work. We are comforted in the very prayers we offer; we take refuge in God and in the sense that He hears we have comfort. He may cause us to wait; it is a very important matter to learn to wait and not to be restive or complaining. The knowledge of Himself in the soul preserves us. He has His own point of view, and it is for us to wait and see what He is doing. In all likelihood He has His people in mind to make more out of them. Jacob says in faith in a time of apostasy, when he comes to Dan, an apostate tribe who at one time set up idolatry, "I have waited for thy salvation, O Jehovah". It is the first great lesson to learn in time of pressure, to wait in prayer; it is a trait of faith. "I have waited for thy salvation". So we are not trusting in the arm of the nations; we are waiting for God's salvation, and every moment of waiting is gain.

The apostle says, "Ye know that which restrains". Let us know it! The Thessalonians, according to this passage, knew, for the apostle says, "And now ye know that which restrains". They were not ignorant of it. God would have us to be instructed as to it, and special writers furnish instruction. We can rest in that same power and influence which is withholding and restraining, so that we might get through. There is a terrible flood of evil arising, but the Lord Jesus said to Philadelphia, "I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth". That is, things are working here, but there is restraint, and our prayers are based on that fact, and there is immense comfort in the fact that God is hindering

the thing we dread. Restraint still functions as powerfully as ever, and as believers we take refuge in that, though we feel things. We are told, "The mystery of lawlessness already works; only there is he who restrains now until he be gone". Then the flood will come. The period is fixed, and God will finally remove barriers that stand against this thing.

Secondly, Satan hinders. This is another side. The Scripture we read in 1 Thessalonians describes the working of love in brothers who are serving the Lord's people in a special way. In this connection the apostle refers to himself, "We would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us". God has His servants in different parts. The gifts from God all come down from Christ, they are universal. We have a very beautiful word in 1 Corinthians 12:28 -- God has set for himself in the assembly certain gifts. That seems to be the force of the word; God is in the matter, and it is described so feelingly. He has set certain in the assembly, first apostles, secondly prophets, and so on. He has set them there for Himself. The assembly is wonderful in a variety of ways, but it is marvellous that God has set gifts there for Himself. He needs them for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. He has set them there for His use, and Satan knows it, and would damage them. Paul refers to being hindered from coming to these converted Thessalonians. He had been caused to leave quickly, and had in mind to go back, "We ... endeavoured the more abundantly to see your face with great desire". Gift is of very little value without love. We may have all faith and so on, but if we have not love we are nothing; that is a very sweeping statement, showing that we must not rest all on the ability of a brother.

One desires not only to go to a place to minister, but to see the brethren. So in verse 17 Paul speaks of his desire to see their faces. What a thought that

is! The great apostle by whom they were converted saying that he endeavoured to see their faces with great desire. In moving among the dear brethren, in meeting them in large numbers (though not too large for God), how small one is, how little able to express love to each one, to read the beauty of Christ in each countenance. One desires more than anything the ability to love the saints, to value their countenances. Satan says, 'I will hinder that'; hence the importance of praying for those ministering. The apostle's main thought was to see the countenances of the brethren, but Satan hindered it. God is love, and that is expressed in His people. Satan will not let the apostle see their faces. What lovely faces they would have, beloved of God as they were! What a place they had in the Father's heart! They are called "The assembly of Thessalonians in God the Father". What a victory for God if He has such lovable persons in a town like this, or in a city like Rome, or Thessalonica, or Corinth. Satan says, 'I hate that', and prevents Paul from seeing their faces. The kings of Midian said to Gideon regarding the men they slew, "As thou art so were they; each one resembled the children of a king". Satan says, 'I know God's heart is set on these people, and if Paul desires to see them I shall prevent it if I can', and he did. I mention this to bring out the idea of the working of love, the personal affection of those who serve towards those who are to be served. Paul speaks of himself as 'I Paul' in this connection. It is a personal matter. Satan is against this personal affection among the brethren, and especially against those God has fitted to serve them.

Thirdly, we have Laban's hindrance. This is another love matter, a marital matter, and Satan is against it peculiarly, against what is for the heart of Christ. The apostle says, "I have espoused you unto one man, to present you a chaste virgin to Christ".

The enemy knew how the Lord's heart was set on the saints, hence the apostle goes on, "I fear lest by any means, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craft, so your thoughts should be corrupted from simplicity as to the Christ". The apostle would have the saints kept in simplicity as to the Christ, not marked by high thoughts, vain thoughts, legal thoughts. Christ is to be in our hearts as He is Himself, just as He is, described by affection in all His parts; as it is said of those on the mount of transfiguration, "Jesus only with themselves". Are we restful in that, or is Jesus clothed with an ecclesiastical garb in our minds? It is Himself, Jesus only with themselves. Looking around, that was what the disciples saw. It is what enters into the moment of His rejection. We do not want any other Jesus, not one clothed with ecclesiastical garments; so the apostle was concerned lest the saints should be corrupted. He understood the love of Christ for the saints: Christ loved the assembly and gave Himself for it. Paul could also say, He "loved me, and gave himself for me". So he understood the love of Christ.

It conveys great power when the thing mentioned is understood by the person who speaks of it. Paul knew what that love meant, and would sacrifice all to secure the assembly. The end of all ministry is the perfecting of the saints. Anyone interfering with that has to watch himself. In our passage in Genesis Laban represents that side. It is a word for any brother or sister endeavouring, by personal influence, to prevent any movement forward to Christ by the saints in assembly character. The Lord is bent on that peculiarly; it is the idea of the bride. Satan just hates it, thus there were those in Corinth who, like Laban, would hinder the saints; Paul was afraid of that. This has to be watched in our localities.

Laban is more active than Bethuel in this case. He received Abraham's servant and camels; he acted

magnanimously; he did the right thing. Now it is a question of Rebecca going to Isaac. We read that "they did eat and drink ... and they rose up in the morning", and the servant said, "Send me away unto my master". And again (verse 56), "Do not hinder me, seeing Jehovah has prospered my way: send me away, and I will go to my master". What a fine plea that was. It was not Rebecca's, but the plea of the servant of Abraham. He stands out as a model servant, always referring to his master, bringing him into everything. It is the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God, too, operating so as to secure saints for Christ, that they might move with Christ in bridal affection, move with the heart and resolution of the bride, who says, "Even so, come, Lord Jesus". The Spirit and the bride say, "Come", she is so secured by ministry, her identity so marked, her characteristics so apparent that she says, "Come". It is just one word, but how much we may put into one word. She loves His appearing.

Laban would hinder Rebecca's moving. Influential brothers and sisters are apt to arise and exert a wrong influence. They like to have a hand in matters beyond what is due; they would influence a gathering, and so keep that young soul back, "Hinder me not", the servant says. There was every evidence in this case that God was leading the person on; why interfere now that everything is so clear? A little bit of feeling asserts itself; one's influence in the place is made to be felt, and a manifest work of God in some soul is hindered. Rebecca settles the matter. Thank God, the work of God is always true to itself, "I will go". She is not afraid of her brother's judgment, or her mother's. It is a question of assembly affection, and the sequence is definiteness, she is going to Christ. May no one here interfere with the peculiar work of the Spirit of God at the present time!

Finally, "What doth hinder me to be baptised", the eunuch says. Rebecca is not saying that; she had no need to say it in regard to Laban unless he had persisted. She was not to be daunted, and God stands by such. The eunuch saw the water. God had made that provision for him, involving severance from the world. Let every young person who is not in the fellowship of God's son raise that question -- What hinders me? The eunuch commanded the chariot to stand still.

It is for every young person to command himself, "I myself with the mind serve God's law". That is urgent on the believer; it is to be characteristic of every true believer, to call a halt and rule his mind. The eunuch went down into the water. Verse 37 is not in Scripture, it savours of the hindrance of Laban, put in by some religious person. The next verse links on with the eunuch's enquiry, "They went down both into the water", and when they came up, the Spirit catches away Philip and the eunuch is left alone with his chariot, and goes on his way rejoicing. Why not? He was answered immediately, and every young person should take it to heart, and see to it, calling a halt and dealing with the matter, so that he in result goes on his way rejoicing.

THE SUPERIORITY OF CHRISTIANITY (1)

Matthew 11:7 - 19, 25 - 30

The superiority of christianity is before us in these scriptures, viewed in contrast to general conditions and worked out in relative values. Scripture abounds with comparisons, and all is to bring out the greatness of christianity. With this in view we may consider the Lord's remarks about John the baptist, who, though not equal to those who form the assembly, serves to illustrate what is in mind.

At this time John was rather under a cloud, but the Lord would not allow this to discredit him, and took occasion of it to bring out his worth. So he says, as John's disciples left, "What went ye out into the wilderness to see? ... Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he". John's greatness only serves to enlarge the greatness of christianity, and the Lord calls attention to it.

The end of the chapter shows how the superiority of christianity shines out in the Lord Jesus, though He is incomparable in His own Person. In the greatest pressure He is able to answer and say, "I praise thee, Father, Lord of the heaven and of the earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to babes", and so He becomes a refuge for all of us who are under pressure as we learn the truth set forth in Him.

John represents a great dispensation. He was called in relation to natural birth, according to God's provisional ways until the coming in of Christ, and there was no one greater than he among those "born

of women". What characterises christianity is that we are "born of God", but truth is cumulative from the beginning and all is carried down to our own time, so it is important to see what the old dispensation was at its best. John was a young man about to die and the Lord would have his true worth be known. He was really the finish of the old dispensation according to God. So from his time the kingdom suffered violence; persons coming into it must do violence to all their own preconceived ideas.

The kingdom of the heavens is peculiar to Matthew, the assembly being in mind. Now all things are vested in the son and He rules from above. The kingdom of God is the moral side of the matter and is connected with the Holy Spirit down here. The kingdom of heaven is the rule of God on earth; the kingdom of God is the moral sway of the Spirit, a divine Person, below. When Christ was here the kingdom of God was in their midst; now the Holy Spirit is here. We need to be born anew to see the kingdom of God. Matthew deals generally with the kingdom of heaven (though he refers also to the kingdom of God) and stresses that Jerusalem is set aside. Hence in the Acts we have the sound from heaven (chapter 2), the voice from heaven to Saul and the sheet from heaven to Peter, to bring in the influence of heaven, whereas judaism has brought christendom down to the level of earth and made it an earthly thing.

The question raised by the Lord, "What went ye out into the wilderness to see?", is a practical one, because it relates to our baptism, which, if rightly understood, makes the earth a wilderness to us. Has the thing that we went out to see when we accepted baptism maintained its greatness in our eyes, or has it deteriorated? It is important to have the true idea of greatness in our minds. Of the Lord it could be said, "He shall be great", but here the thought is

extended to others, in order to emphasise the greatness of our dispensation.

John the baptist could say, "There standeth one among you, whom ye know not" (John 1:26), and, later, "He must increase, but I must decrease" (chapter 3: 30). John the evangelist carries all this forward into christianity, because in John 3 one can hardly determine where the baptist's remarks finish and the evangelist's commence. They merge in christian language, showing what a sense John the baptist had of the greatness of Christ.

John was not a "reed shaken with the wind", a person shaken by every wind of doctrine, for he stood his ground. Nor was he "a man clothed in soft raiment", such as marks certain ecclesiastical systems. Such things belong to "kings' houses", not to christianity. John was a prophet, involving something substantial, one who represents God, and, can bring Him into the souls of those whom he serves. So in John 4 the woman recognised Christ as a prophet when He exposed her history, bringing God into her soul. Matthew makes much of a prophet (see chapter 10: 41, 42), but none was greater than John, who was "more than a prophet", as the Lord said. John's personality lay behind his office, and this is developed by John the evangelist in his gospel. He was brought up in the deserts and wore suitable clothes, outside of and apart from the world and its fashions. In all this he is a model for us. Thus he was able to discern the glory of Christ as the Baptiser with the Holy Spirit, the Son of God and the Lamb of God, His personal attractiveness; John 1. The result of his testimony was that his two disciples left him and followed Jesus.

In Acts 18 and 19 we see in Apollos and the twelve at Ephesus persons prepared to move on from John's ministry into the full light of christianity. They were ready for the greatness of Paul's ministry. So

the epistle to the Hebrews was to lead Jewish christians out by presenting something better, a better covenant, a better hope, and so on. We are not to antagonise persons by belittling what they are in, but to suggest to them something better. Then the word is: "Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach", Hebrews 13:13.

At the end of Matthew 11 we see the Lord in full superiority to the conditions of rejection and pressure. "At that time. Jesus answering said, I praise thee, Father, Lord of the heaven and of the earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to babes. Yea, Father, for thus has it been well-pleasing in thy sight". God is working and the Lord would keep us on the line of God's work, not depressed by what is happening around us. These babes are doubtless the children of wisdom, but the latter are more than babes, they are developed. In Proverbs 8 wisdom is seen in relation to creation, but now she has children and she is justified in those whom she begets. Wisdom is justified in Christ, but also in the assembly, as Matthew 18 shows. The assembly, as having wisdom, is the administrative vessel now, and this should enter into all our meetings and discussions. Proverbs is peculiarly an assembly book and is intended to augment us in our assembly service. It relates to "the kingdom of the son of his love", the true Solomon. Chapters 30 and 31 bring out what a brother should be in his attitude of mind. Agur is humble and does not pretend to know everything; no one does. The more you do know, the more you depend on the Lord and on the brethren. Agur says, "Truly I am more stupid than any one; and I have not a man's intelligence, I have neither learned wisdom, nor have I the knowledge of the Holy", Proverbs 30:2, 3. He is like Paul, who could speak of himself as less than the least of all saints. Such a

one can compress himself, and recognises his dependence on others; for it is only among the brethren and as dependent on the Spirit that one can bring things out. Agur is asking questions, but what great things these questions bring out! "What is his name?" Deity is before him, bringing us to infinitude and making us feel how small we are. This is a right attitude of mind.

Here in Matthew 11 we have the Father and the Son and what They are doing, and we are to be learners. The Son is revealing the Father to persons, and this makes them very distinguished. Do we know anything of this, the revelation of the Father by the Son? This is special and brings out the personnel of the assembly. The Son has pleasure in making you what you are. For example, in the case of the man in John 9, the Lord heard that they had cast him out and He finds him; he becomes distinguished as cast out by the religious world. The Lord says, "Dost thou believe on the Son of God". He is seeking to give him more than he already had, "He answered and said, And who is he, Lord, that I may believe on him? And Jesus said to him, Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he. And he said, I believe, Lord: and he did him homage". That illustrates what is here, the Lord's pleasure in revealing the Father. Each one is taken up individually in view of the personnel of the assembly. The Lord would say, 'I want to make you more than what you are, I want you to know the Father'. Not only are babes taken up sovereignly, but as sons we come individually under the influence of the Son and each receives a distinct impression of the Father. Divine pleasure enters into the new economy, because it is stable and final. It may break down outwardly, but not really or vitally, because the assembly is in view and, as we are told, "Hades' gates shall not prevail against it".

THE SUPERIORITY OF CHRISTIANITY (2)

Matthew 12:6 - 21, 38 - 50

This chapter develops the subject of the superiority of the new economy introduced by Christ, based upon the sovereignty of God and the delightful relationships set forth at the close of chapter 11. Christ is before us objectively and we are to learn from Him, seeing what He does and says. So here in chapter 12 He went through the cornfields and the disciples went further; they "were hungry, and began to pluck the ears and to eat". He is showing that the old economy is broken, but He is introducing a new one, in which there is liberty.

The thought before us of relative values is seen throughout the chapter: "there is here what is greater than the temple" (verse 6). Then "the son of man is Lord of the sabbath" (verse 8), not only greater than it, but Lord of it. Then a man is said to be better than a sheep (verse 12), and finally we have what is "greater than Jonas" (verse 41), and "greater than Solomon" (verse 42). These representative values are for our consideration and instruction. The superior character of the christian economy and the relationships established in it give character to the present moment, as we see at the end of the gospel: "Baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". This exceeds all other dispensations, and chapter 11 shows how the Lord deals with us individually to bring us into the liberty of it.

The sabbath may be viewed as a type of Christ, and in Exodus it is first formally mentioned in relation to the manna (chapter 16). The manna represents Christ here in our circumstances; the sabbath would mean that He becomes rest to us. Then in chapter 31,

following the directions as to the pattern of the tabernacle, the sabbath again comes into view; it was to be kept, and it is stated that God rested on the seventh day "and was refreshed", a beautiful thought not mentioned in Genesis. It seems to be connected with the operations of the tabernacle, all pointing to Christ and drawing out divine affection so that God could be refreshed as the result of the willing-hearted response of the people as bringing the material for His dwelling-place. The Sabbath was again introduced as if to impress us with the necessity of lying fallow in the presence of the divine revelation so as to absorb the force of it into our constitutions. We ourselves become material for the tabernacle as we take on this thought of Christ, as John says in his gospel: "the Word became flesh, and dwelt [literally, tabernacled] among us (and we have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a Father), full of grace and truth". The glory of Christ is among us. I think the Sabbath is a type to bring about conditions for the divine dwelling, but here what spoke so beautifully of Christ had become a great legal sign and had lost all its spiritual value. The Lord does not recognise it, for He went through the cornfields on the sabbath, indicating that He is introducing a new order of things.

Similarly the temple had lost its value and it is not here used as a type. It is here "what is greater than the temple", not exactly Christ Himself, but what He is bringing in and we have part in. Solomon had anticipated something greater in his prayer at the dedication of the temple; Christ Himself is the true temple of God and is displacing all that is here, involving christianity, what we have by the Spirit.

The Lord's quotation, "I will have mercy, and not sacrifice", brought out the ignorance of His opposers. The law demanded, whereas He inaugurated a system in which mercy is prevalent, as John says of Him,

"full of grace and truth". This chapter is to deliver us from legalists and to introduce us to greater things. Romans brings out that we are "vessels of mercy ... prepared for glory", so that mercy introduces us into the best and greatest thoughts of God. The instructions here are especially meant to deliver us from legal systems, and in this connection Christ is spoken of as God's Servant: "Behold my servant, whom I have chosen, my beloved, in whom my soul has found its delight. I will put my Spirit upon him ...". He is effectuating all this for the pleasure of God and the first thing is that He is Lord of the sabbath and, having brought it in, He can dispose of it.

As Lord of the sabbath Christ has authority over all that is legal. People may assume that they can go on in their legal ways, but the Lord is supreme in that: "Are we stronger than he?". We have withdrawn from what is iniquitous, following the injunction: "Let every one who names the name of the Lord withdraw from iniquity". The Lord has still to say to these legal systems around, though we have to leave them. We judge them morally, but they are to be judged actually and the Lord has authority to deal with it all. The religious systems of christendom have largely taken on judaism and the Lord will deal with it finally, but here He is going on in grace.

In keeping with the thought of relative values, in verse 12 a man is compared with a sheep. Human life is of very little account nowadays, but the Lord is here calling attention to the value of a man, not a Jew, but a man. Presently the Jew will come into his place and we read that ten men will take hold of a Jew, but now it is a question of men. "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus", 1 Timothy 2:5. The salvation and blessing of men are in view.

Here is a man with a withered hand. "And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath

days? that they might accuse him" (verse 10). They were legalists, and were bringing up the question, not to settle it, but in order to have something against the Lord. He says, "What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days". He established the law on moral grounds, not exactly as a matter of commandment.

There is a great deal of judaism among us and it cuts across that which is obviously right. There are things so obviously right that you do not need to go to Scripture for authority for them. The obvious rightness of a thing should settle a great many of our problems; things that are trifles are often made difficulties. The Lord goes on to say to the man: "Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other". How beautiful that is! The Lord had established the rightness of the thing, and if you are not persistently a legalist you will see it. Often one hears it said that a thing cannot be right because a man is not right, but a right thing is right no matter who does it. It is important that we follow what is right. You do not necessarily follow with a man if he is not right, because he is not worthy of being followed, but you follow with those that call on the name of the Lord out of a pure heart. The truth, even the Bible, has come down to us through hands that are questionable; we cannot say that all those who brought it down to us were christians, but the things are right.

As the chapter proceeds, sectarianism develops and this culminates in their attributing the Lord's works to Satan. There is no forgiveness for a man that sins against the Holy Spirit, so it is a crucial matter. There is complete exposure of the evil, but the end of the chapter brings out the brethren and stabilises

what is of God. The crowds are unstable; left to themselves they are harmless, but they are amenable to bad influences, in contrast to those at the end of the chapter whom the Lord can speak of as His brethren. The greatness of the new dispensation is developed as the Holy Spirit comes into view, whereas the old dispensation has become bad, not only as legal, but because Satan has obtained control of it. The wicked spirit comes back and brings seven others worse than himself (verses 43 - 45).

The sin against the Holy Spirit is a dispensational matter, and there is no forgiveness for it. The greatness of the new dispensation is seen in the place the Holy Spirit has in it, hence there is no hope for one who speaks against Him, as we see here and in Hebrews 10:29: "Who hath trodden under foot the Son of God ... and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace". One often wonders about things that are happening in christendom today; virtually the Son of God is trodden under foot and there is the sin against the Holy Spirit. It is said of Babylon in Revelation 11"Where also our Lord was crucified"; in principle He is crucified afresh.

The old economy is not only judged, but it is shown to be inferior, even at its very best, to what we have in christianity. So here the Lord alludes to what is "greater than Jonas", and "greater than Solomon" (verses 41, 42). It alludes to the personnel of the assembly: if a man, as such, is greater than a sheep, how much greater he is as coming to Christ! Here man as in Christ is in view according to the new order of things, for all other men are valueless. In Exodus 4 Moses cast his rod on the ground and it became a serpent, showing how man came under the power of Satan. But Jehovah said: "Put forth thine hand, and take it by the tail. And he put forth his hand, and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand", indicating that man should become usable

for what was primarily in the mind of God as recovered in Christ. Then Moses put his hand into his bosom and it became leprous; that is man's state as away from God; but, when at God's word he put his hand into his bosom again and drew it out, "Behold, it was turned again as his other flesh", healed and usable again, showing the value of man as taken up in Christ, I must be sure that I am like that, for I am of no value otherwise.

There has been a danger of trying to take up the truth of the assembly as in chapters 16 and 18 without the underlying moral state, involving the question of good and evil. Adam was told not to take of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but he did, and raised the whole moral question. God would not reinstate him as he was before, but only on moral lines. Adam understood this in some measure; hence he called his wife Eve. He had named her Ishshah before, indicating that she was taken out of him as God made him; now she is Eve, "the mother of all living", for the seed of the woman was to bruise Satan's head. She could only be that on the ground of sacrifice.

That which is "greater than the temple", "greater than Jonas", and "greater than Solomon" is what is secured in Christ morally. The Jews wanted a sign, though Christ Himself was a sign before their eyes, raising the dead, healing the sick and so on. So the only sign for them now is the sign of Jonas; the Lord Jesus was to die, involving that man, with all attaching to him, is condemned. The Spirit of God has been opening up that sign ever since -- the meaning of the death of Christ. The whole race of man after the flesh has gone down, and a new generation come to light on moral lines: "Whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother" (verse 50).

Jonah's preaching in Nineveh shows the importance of the testimony in a city. A city represents the concentration of worldliness, and God sets up His testimony there. The men of Nineveh had this wonderful testimony and they repented at the preaching of Jonah. God may give repentance to some in our city, hence the importance of seeing that the testimony is rightly regulated and all support given to it. The assembly is here with this in view; as in Corinth there were a Jewish synagogue, Greek temples and the assembly of God, so in chapter 14 a man coming to the assembly would find God there and be convicted. We must keep before us the idea of the temple: where God dwells. Jonah went right through Nineveh to the other side of the city; the whole city is in mind and we should not be limited in our thoughts. The sign of Jonas involves the death of Christ, but the assembly is the positive thing answering to it. So the Lord told His disciples to tarry in the city where He was crucified, and where He lay in death, until they were endued with power from on high, this bringing the assembly into view. At Nineveh one man brought about repentance; why could not one hundred and twenty men and women in a city effect something? Jonah was a man of faith; he was a changed man, disciplined by God, and had learned what it was to repent himself. This spirit should mark us today.

"More than Jonas" and "more than Solomon" suggest development and growth. It is not so much Christ personally, but the superiority of the new dispensation, and the assembly is in view. Jesus said to Saul, "Why persecutest thou me?"; that is the saints; again, he was to go into the city and "it shall be told thee what thou must do", Acts 9:6. The Lord had something there in testimony representative of Himself.

THE SUPERIORITY OF CHRISTIANITY (3)

2 Kings 6:24, 25; 2 Kings 7:1, 2; 2 Chronicles 1:13 - 17

The Lord would impress us with the superiority of our position as in Christianity. We are in the midst of better things, and better ourselves as belonging to the new order of things. Indeed, carrying the thought further, christians are the greatest family, greater than angels as being associated with Christ. For we shall judge angels; they are ministering spirits sent forth to serve us. All this comes in at the present time so that we may not be unduly disturbed by circumstances. Conflict is not only outward, but there is that in which the Spirit of God is concerned amongst the saints. "We wrestle not", the apostle says, "against flesh and blood", Ephesians 6:12. This present conflict is subservient to the great conflict in which we are all involved all the time among the people of God, a conflict for the truth. In the spiritual warfare Christ is said to be the Captain of Jehovah's host, and He gives us support which is needed so that we are not overcome by what is outward. The great Priest over the house of God is for us. He is greater than Aaron, being set forth in Melchisedec, who was greater than Aaron. He is even greater than Melchisedec.

We may look at the first scripture in order to see how our subject works out in regard of food, the relative value of food. Then in 2 Chronicles under Solomon, what was not great became great; while that which was really valuable in God's sight became of no value. In 2 Kings 6 we read that an ass's head was sold for fourscore pieces of silver, and the fourth part of a cab of dove's dung for five pieces of silver. Then in chapter 7 we have normal prices for the very best food, fine flour and barley, "a measure of fine

flour ... for a shekel, and two measures of barley for a shekel". These are normal prices. Why should we give an enormous price for food of relatively no value at all, and hardly fit for use? These enormous prices were the outcome of conditions of war, the king of Syria having besieged Samaria. What is needed is the prophetic word, bringing about the supply of good food at normal prices. People live on poor food, but there is abundance of what is far superior, if we only knew it. The Lord could say: "My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work" (John 4:34), indicating the true spiritual food, while the disciples were merely concerned with what was natural. Food is to sustain life, to build up a constitution capable of receiving spiritual impressions. The Lord's supper comes in thus as divinely given food, to prepare us for more spiritual things.

Food, in its spiritual application, is what occupies and forms our minds. Reading matter abounds today and the printing industry is one of the greatest agencies at work in the world. What is its effect? What kind of constitution does it produce? Men pay high prices for it and it may be semi-religious, openly infidel or modernistic. If christians buy and use such things, it is because of the siege. Here it is the Syrians, relatives of Israel and linked with their fathers by natural descent -- "A Syrian ready to perish was my father", Deuteronomy 26:5. Now they attack Israel frequently, and they cut off the food supply, so that what speaks of Christ, the fine flour and the barley, is replaced by the ass's head, food of no value, but very costly.

The ass's head would represent some kind of humanity, but unredeemed. According to the law it should have been redeemed or its neck was to be broken. As redeemed it would be valuable, like the ass which the Lord claimed and used in the New

Testament. But this ass's head is like the skull at the cross of Jesus. Obviously it was unredeemed, for if it belonged to Christ He would never sell it.

The king passes by and he is responsible. "There cried a woman ... Help, my lord, O king". Now the king is hearing about the conditions. He rent his clothes, "and, behold, he had sackcloth within upon his flesh". How humble he appears! But is he really humble? "God do so ... to me, if the head of Elisha ... shall stand on him this day". That is the man in responsibility, pretending to be religious and humble, but a murderer and the son of a murderer. So in verse 32 the truth comes out. He is a murderer. Elisha says, "Hold him fast at the door". That is, this thing is to be kept out, the door shut. Do not affiliate with him. Elisha shuts the messenger out. "Is not the sound of his master's feet behind him?". The king says, "Why should I wait for the Lord any longer?". How unlike Jacob, who said, "I wait for thy salvation, O Jehovah". My only hope is in God. This king, a murderer, is, in effect, shut out of the assembly by the prophet and that brings out the mind of God in chapter 7. The king is not waiting; the true saints are waiting. We must separate from the evil and keep it out, otherwise we shall not have good food. As we are in the assembly of God and the door shut, we have good food at normal prices. Why do we not come to the place where there is good food at normal prices? The king, although seemingly humble, has no patience, is not waiting for God, and then the prophet comes in and rescues the position, putting things on right lines. The point is to shut the door on the real trouble, to exclude the responsible man.

The prophet represents God. We need to learn to listen to prophetic ministry from God, a great augmenting principle. With the door shut against evil it brings the conscience into action. God is drawing

attention to the prophetic word. Elijah and Elisha both come into this; Elijah the heavenly man gone up, and Elisha the heavenly position maintained here in the spirit of Christ. The prophetic ministry was the saving element amongst the brethren in Corinth. We have to do with divine things in christianity, that is, a right view of things, and the prophetic word would regulate us. There are three things in 1 Corinthians 13, faith, hope and love, but the greater of these is love; note it is not said to be the greatest, it is the greater. Love is the greater as over against the other two. That is the way of surpassing excellence. The apostle had in mind chapter 14, but brings in chapter 13 as the way of support, necessary for the ministry of chapter 14. So that we are regulated by the prophetic ministry coming in by the way of love. By love the prophet was to serve.

Chapter 7 shows us how the prophetic word of Elisha came to pass. The four lepers accept their position. They are outside and they use their judgment. They do what is obviously the best thing to do under the circumstances, "If we ... enter into the city ... we shall die ... if they put us to death, we shall but die". That is the obvious thing to do. In the local meeting, do what is obviously the right thing. There are three things set out in this chapter, and in the last one they say, We may die or we may not. That is the way to take and they took that way, "And they came to the extremity of the camp ... and ... there was no man there". Something has happened. These men represent the work of God. They were lepers, and they knew it. The king was morally a leper, but he did not know it. No one can have right judgment, unless he has accepted his place before God. God had made the Syrians to hear the noise of chariots. Elisha apparently knew nothing of this. As the conscience is

touched we begin to do what is right, for the lepers say to each other, "We do not well, this day is a day of good tidings, and we hold our peace" (verse 9). We must forget ourselves and remember other people; we are not doing what is right, we must tell the king's household. That is the more excellent way, the way of love. This is how the prophetic word comes about, how it is worked out. A brother gets up to give a word. He has been in exercise about the conditions, and God gives him something relative to those conditions. He gives it out and someone is taking it to heart, is saying, I have not been just right, I am the one to blame. These lepers say, We are not doing right. Things are not right in the meeting. What about me, am I doing just right? Why am I hiding this food? What about other people? You have to think unselfishly, think of others, not yourself. "This day is a day of good tidings, and we hold our peace". They are doing what is right, not merely quoting Scripture, but moving righteously. The Spirit of God is stressing the fact of the work of God in relation to what is right. The work of God will always agree with Scripture. The lepers outside do not enter the city, but take the way of instinct; divine instinct is seen in them. Do what is right yourself; God's work will show itself.

God uses the lepers to carry out the prophetic word. He comes in in relation to the prophetic word. The exact details come to pass. They tell it to the king's household. They do not hold their peace, and so in verse 16 the prophetic word is established, even to the destruction of the scorner. The word of God abides, and through the prophetic word we reach normal food; that is, spiritual food at normal prices in the assembly.

In 2 Chronicles it is a question of values. Divine values had depreciated under certain conditions and human values were more appreciated. The horses

which the king multiplied refer to what is human or natural becoming more than it is worth, whereas what is really valuable has depreciated. Silver (the price of redemption) and gold (representing what is of God) are not kept at their normal value. The cedars are made as the sycamores of the lowland. The cedars were used in the temple, and are a type of greatness according to God. These should be maintained at their proper value, but here they become less to Solomon. We are apt, in our houses, in our outlook, to make more of things that are natural; that is, we allow them to become first with us. Spiritual values, in that way, depreciate, and the natural is unduly appreciated. We want to see in our houses that the things of God come first, that they are maintained at the proper level always. John desired that Gaius might prosper in all things, "Even as thy soul prospers". If your soul prospers, you will have a right estimation of the mercies of God, but will value spiritual things.

Paul says he did not remember whom he had baptised at Corinth. His commission was not to baptise, but then he remembers that he did baptise the household of Stephanas, as if to say, That was a household worth baptising. In this book, as Solomon comes from Gibeon to Jerusalem, he omits to stand before the ark. The ark represents the latest thought of God. David brought it back and in this chapter Solomon omits to recognise that. The tabernacle at Gibeon was right, of course; but according to 1 Kings 3:15 he recognises the last and most precious ministry of David, the setting up of the ark in its own place, in so far as it could be. Solomon stood before that; he does not do so here in Chronicles. In Kings the next portion is the two women coming for judgment, and he judges right; he discerns the mother of the child. In Chronicles there is no mention of the two women, and he multiplies chariots

and horses -- that which was forbidden for kings to do. What is natural is worth more, and what is of God depreciates. The same thing will happen to us if we do not recognise the ark, the glory and power of God. The ark is Christ in humiliation, but in power.

Solomon was a wonderful man, but he fails where one expects him to shine most, and that is a warning to us; we may have reputation and yet fail where needed most. The tabernacle was right enough, but what is arrived at in Kings was far greater and represented the present mind of God. Solomon had no eyes for the ark here, yet it typified the Lord Jesus, infinite greatness in small compression. He who was rich became poor, that we through His poverty might be enriched, that the things of God might be spiritually valuable and not become depreciated in our minds and in our houses.

THE SUPERIORITY OF CHRISTIANITY (4)

Genesis 46:31 - 34; Genesis 47:10; Genesis 48:1 - 5

We have now to consider the superiority of our position as in the family of God, including the principle of selection -- some being viewed as more excellent than others. Here five of Joseph's brethren are selected out of the whole number as suitable for presentation to Pharaoh, who here represents God in the sense of supremacy. He is also viewed personally as in the king's place, Jacob being superior to him as blessing him. Then in chapter 48 the grandchildren, Joseph's sons, are elevated to the position of children by Jacob, who is typical of the Father with the family. Later he promotes one above the other. So in the divine family the superiority of some to others is recognised. In one sense we are all called to be sons, by faith, but there is practical worth to be developed and honoured. It is open to us all, though behind it is the work of God, who works in us "both the willing and the working according to his good pleasure", Philippians 2:13.

The selection of the five brethren chosen to appear before Pharaoh would be based on what would be acceptable to him. Pharaoh wished them to be overseers of his cattle. He is thus different from the Egyptians, who naturally abominated shepherds, "If thou knowest men of activity among them, then set them ... over what I have". He raises the question as to their worth, involving this principle of selection, which runs throughout the ways of God and extends back to before the foundation of the world, when we were chosen in Christ. Then Joseph tells them what to say, for he is concerned about his brethren as they are about to be introduced into what is a new realm to them. Are they equal to it? The people of God are to be superior to the very best in this world.

The idea of selection on account of moral worth is seen in Timothy and Titus, and also in Acts 6, as the diaconal work comes into view. It is said, "Look out ... from among yourselves seven men, well reported of, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom". Then, in 1 Timothy, Paul says that if one desires to exercise oversight he must possess certain qualifications. The Holy Spirit takes account of these practical conditions, and such persons would have the confidence of their brethren. So in matters of need we can leave much to a brother selected to do the work of a deacon. There is no necessity to call all the brothers together for every such matter; the less cumbersome we are the better. The qualification is not determined by age, though experience enters into it; we shall not grow at all unless found in the way of righteousness. Paul says to Timothy, "Let no man despise thy youth", and the application would be to the older: Let no one despise your age.

We should have a sober judgment of each one, not in a critical sense, but as to moral worth. The idea of selecting a certain one in view of special work to be done is plainly seen in the Scriptures. In Romans 16 the commendation of Phoebe by the apostle linked her on with others in Rome. As she presented the letter and heard it read, she would understand clearly the value in his eyes of others in Rome and would find her place amongst those of moral worth in that city. What is really of worth in us draws it out in others. A brother's social position challenges us. Do we allow it to enter into assembly service? Onesimus was a slave, and we might despise such a brother because of his social inferiority; but Paul describes him as a beloved brother, and Philemon is tested whether he can make enough of the work of God.

We are not told who the five were that were presented to Pharaoh by Joseph. We might look

back over their previous history and suggest the likely ones. Judging from Jacob's blessing in Genesis, we might think that Dan would not be amongst them, but, after considering Moses' blessing in Deuteronomy, we might change our mind. Probably Judah would be one, for he shone in chapter 44. When one comes under the eye of heaven and of the Lord, and is promoted in a moral way, that abides. We may give much for promotion, but it is only on the ground of moral qualifications. Moses says of Benjamin, "The beloved of Jehovah -- he shall dwell in safety by him" (Deuteronomy 33:12), representing a man set in a locality to look after the house of God. So that God can dwell there. The way we conduct our own houses enters into this, especially in regard of eldership and deaconship (see 1 Timothy 3:5).

Psalm 45 presents moral qualifications in perfection as seen in Christ. The writer had a great thought of Christ, as he said, "My heart is welling forth with a good matter: I say what I have composed touching the king". We should all have an estimate of Christ, as is seen also beautifully in Canticles. In Psalm 45 the writer cannot say enough of Christ. It is a lovely psalm, the song of the Beloved, and if he speaks of Christ he must speak also of the queen, that is, of the work of God in the saints, those for whom Christ died. Christ is the standard of value, and if I have a right estimate of Christ I shall know how to look at His brethren. Joseph was the standard of value in the house of Jacob. In Genesis 30, when Joseph comes into view there is none like him in the eyes of his father. Jacob moves out as Joseph is born. In chapter 33 he places Joseph before his mother in the presence of Esau. Then from chapter 37 to chapter 47 Joseph is lost to his father, but in chapter 47 he is still the standard of value. If we have a right estimate of Christ, we shall rightly esteem the

brethren. We must look at Him who is Firstborn amongst us, Firstborn of many brethren. The mount of transfiguration brings out His pre-eminence, and Peter in his reference to it in his second epistle shows the value that God found in Christ and how he had been affected by it.

Joseph had a true judgment about his brethren and could value each one. The Lord Jesus said, "Thou art Peter"; that was His estimate of him. In other words, he was material for the structure. In John 1, Jesus, looking on him, calls him Cephas, the same word in another language. It is a question there of life and personality; we see many others coming and the Lord passing judgment on them. He saw Nathanael sitting under the fig tree. Philip says to him, "We have found him of whom Moses wrote ... Jesus, the son of Joseph, who is from Nazareth". What is his response to this testimony? He says, "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" a poor response to a wonderful presentation of Christ. There appeared no evidence whatever of the work of God. We find many with whom there is no response to the truth. Philip says, "Come and see". You do not respond to the truth, but you may to the Person. Jesus sees him coming and says, "Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no guile", a rare kind of man. So we must not be in a hurry to turn anyone down. We are to say to such, "Come and see"; it is not, Go and see. It is where we are ourselves that counts. The woman in John 4 says the same thing, and it is to be characteristic with us. Only a satisfied person can say, "Come and see". The Lord's eye is upon us and He passes judgment on persons. It is a solemn matter. Does He look upon us in rebuke or is He pleased with us? In Canticles He speaks of the bride with pleasure, and refers to the beauty He finds in her, "Thou hast ravished my heart with one of thine eyes".

These sons of Jacob ask Pharaoh to let them dwell in the land of Goshen, a place of pasture. As true shepherds they consider for the sheep. We should bring souls to where the best pasture is, like the Lord Jesus, the Shepherd of our souls, who is ever concerned that His saints are fed (see Ephesians 4:10 - 12). So He said to Peter, "Feed my lambs ... Shepherd my Sheep ... Feed my sheep".

Divine selection is proved by what is done well. Let us see that the Lord and the brethren support us. We should not be slow in asking the brethren what they think, for it is well to have the judgment of others. Paul had great confidence in Timothy and was concerned that this might be maintained. Trustworthiness is a great point in this matter.

In chapter 48 Jacob is in view. Joseph does not tell Jacob what to say. He had told his brethren; he had primed them to say what was right. So we can adjust one another as to our behaviour in the assembly. Endless repetitions are very painful, such as the constant use of the Lord's title in prayer; this is not pleasing to Him, and it is well to tell one another of such things. But Joseph does not so instruct Jacob, for he is the father, the supreme thought of excellence in the family. Joseph sets Jacob before Pharaoh, and Jacob blessed him. Think of the power of this man! Jacob is superior to Pharaoh, the greatest monarch of the time, for "the less is blessed of the better", and Pharaoh does not resent it. Jacob can give an account of the days of the years of his life: "Few and evil", he says, not hiding anything. He is morally great and Pharaoh recognises it. Jacob blessed Pharaoh and went out. We see dignity to the full as he goes in and comes out from the presence of the king.

Psalm 105 helps us to see God's estimate of His saints in patriarchal days. They were "few men in number, of small account, and strangers ... He

suffered no man to oppress them, and reproved kings for their sakes, saying, Touch not mine anointed ones, and do my prophets no harm". So here Jacob was superior to Pharaoh, as Abraham was in his day. God said to the king at that time, "He is a prophet"; greater than that, he was a priest -- "He will pray for thee". He did, and God heard him. That is the position. We are outwardly of no account, strangers in the land, and yet God's chosen ones, prophets, priests and kings. The challenge comes to us to be true to our calling, superior in our manners and ways to all around, so that men may see.

Now in chapter 48 Jacob is seen as father with the family, not now in the presence of Pharaoh. He brings his grandchildren up to the same status as his sons. The Father does as He wills, elevating us from one status to another; it is His prerogative. Every family is named of the Father, and some are inferior to others. The assembly is superior to all other families according to the Father's election. The Jews have their place, but Paul introduces the idea of sonship as applied to the gentiles. "Because ye are sons, God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father", Galatians 4:6. So the Lord says to His disciples, "Rejoice that your names are written in heaven". In the assembly everyone is a firstborn one, "the assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven". Each has a peculiar place of preciousness in love. In this scripture the grandchildren are raised to the status of Reuben and Simeon, the two elder brethren.

Ephraim and Manasseh were born to Joseph before Jacob came to Egypt; they typify those who have come to Christ in the period of His rejection by Israel. It is the Father's prerogative to bring us into sonship according to His eternal counsel. This is calculated to enrich the service of God. We cannot serve at all unless we are sons, but here we are sons by the Father's

appointment. By the Spirit of adoption we cry, "Abba, Father", so that we can be in power in the assembly. The cry suggests the urgency of it. In the rich cry of "Abba, Father", the sons recognise the Father. As prepared to be with Christ in rejection we are raised to the status of sonship. It is to bring out the prerogative of the Father in the divine family, "For of him, and through him, and for him are all things: to him be glory for ever. Amen".

Joseph's two sons are brought in, and so Joseph has two portions in the family. In Ezekiel, where the inheritance is divided. Joseph has two portions, for Christ is pre-eminent amongst His brethren.

FATHERHOOD IN GOD AND IN MAN

John 14:6 - 11; 1 Corinthians 4:15 - 17; Genesis 4:16 - 22; 1 Chronicles 2:50, 51

These scriptures speak of fatherhood, a subject of particular importance in the Scriptures and of particular importance where there are those who love God. For amongst them fatherhood is a great necessity. You will observe that I began with the supreme thought of fatherhood in God as having come out in Christ, for aside from the incarnation we could not have any true knowledge of the fatherhood of God. Then I moved on to a man like ourselves, Paul, who appropriates the idea of fatherhood to himself over against ten thousand instructors in Christ. There were not many fathers; they might have that many instructors for it is much easier to multiply instructors in Christ than it is to multiply fathers.

Then I moved on to Genesis to show how the thought is seen in the world. The world has always imitated. Even Satan is largely imitative in his operations. It can be seen that even in Cain's family there were persons named fathers of certain industrial lines. In 1 Chronicles we shall see the same thing, only there they are said to be fathers of towns, the great need at the present time! I hope to keep in mind in all this the idea of fatherhood in towns or districts. The thought is spiritual in 1 Chronicles. That is, it is pointing to the time in which the testimony of God should be developed in assemblies and these assemblies are necessarily in towns, or cities, or villages, or sometimes in country districts.

The working out of the divine economy requires fatherhood and I might add motherhood in a spiritual sense. The term 'father' is very much used in the Scriptures and is also held to by the leaders of the

world. In fact the first son mentioned by the term 'son' is Cain's. Of course, Cain was the first son, too, but he is not called son. His son is the first to have that designation.

Now to come to the New Testament thought of all this, I just wish to speak a little about the Lord Jesus. John the apostle was chosen by the Spirit of God to enlarge on this great subject in the New Testament, obviously because he was the brother who knew love. Then he knew what it was to be the object of it himself. He designates himself under that heading, "The disciple whom Jesus loved". He was amongst those whom the Lord designated as 'children'. For instance, He says, "Children, have ye any meat?". John knew love so well in the Lord and that is where it is fully and rightly known, "Hereby we have known love, because he has laid down his life for us", 1 John 3:16. It is there that we know love. John gives us not only the great fact of the Lord's laying down His life for him, but what he experienced in lying in the Lord's bosom. One marvels at the liberty he had with the Lord. It was because love was in the Lord. Not only friendly love, the love of brethren, but parental. The love Christ bore for John was parental. John lay in His bosom in that love, parental love.

This is a special gift, John's being used to bring out these family relationships. It was because he knew love. He says himself, "Hereby we have known love". One who does not know love is in a very poor way. I am speaking of love as in God, coming out in Christ parentally and shared in a family way by the saints. So shared that it introduces liberty, such liberty, to be, as it were, familiar with the Lord Jesus. So that John can go on to say "That which we contemplated, and our hands handled, concerning the word of life", 1 John 1:1. He refers to the Word and the holy liberty which love vouchsafes to us: 'handled' the

Lord Jesus; so as to place his hand on the Lord and lay his head in the bosom of Jesus.

Well now, I would speak of these words of Jesus which I have read in John 14. The Lord answers Thomas and Philip and says in replying to Thomas, "No one comes to the Father unless by me". Did Thomas ever know that way? Did he ever lay his head on the bosom of Jesus? That is a question to come home to each of us.

"No one comes to the Father unless by me". What a statement that was! The Lord goes on to say, "If ye had known me, ye would have known also my Father, and henceforth ye know him and have seen him"; that is how the disciples come into it. It is very interesting to see how the disciples are to be brought into this, and you are to be one of them. I believe heaven is still grouping. One has been in many a group. Not the photographic groups so popular today, but how much more blessed to be seen in heaven's grouping. The Spirit of God groups people and this disciple whom Jesus loved is particularly placed, in relation to another, the Lord's mother. It was when the Lord Jesus was on the cross, that He grouped these two persons together. He looks on Mary His mother, of whom Simeon had said, "A sword shall pierce through thine own soul". How it entered her soul as she stood by the cross of Jesus. Standing by the cross of Jesus, He looked on her and called her, "Woman": "Woman, behold thy son". Some of you may have in your minds that He meant His mother to look on Him, but He was directing her attention to John, "Behold thy son". How beautiful! The Lord is grouping these two persons in a holy bond of love as mother and son. That was one of the most precious acts of Jesus on the cross, placing these two together in love, in the relation of mother and son. He said to John, "Behold thy mother". That is Mary the mother of Jesus is now John's

mother. How thoroughly John understood it. He took her to his own home from that moment. She was not to be without a son. She is never again to have Jesus as a son; He has taken up a new condition to which that relationship is not attached. But she is not to be without a son. The Lord on the cross rises above all the sorrow and the pain to bring these two together in the bond of holy love. He is doing that all the time. He even comes to natural relations and affections. If the Lord does not bring two together it would never be done. If the bonds are to be in Him, He must do it. That is all I have time to say as to grouping.

Now John the apostle was qualified to deal with this great matter of family relationships. So he speaks to us about Jesus, "The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father), full of grace and truth", John 1:14. There is very little contemplation, dear brethren, of what is divine. But John says "We have contemplated". There it was in the midst. We contemplated His glory, and as well there are these words I have read to you, these words of Jesus; He goes on to say, "Am I so long a time with you, and thou hast not known me, Philip? He that has seen me has seen the Father". Was John here? Very likely. But the Lord speaks to Philip, and He is speaking to me and everyone here tonight, too. Have I been so long a time with you and you do not know Me? Where are we? Christianity is a question of Persons. Principles and doctrines, of course, but Persons. But if we are to know right principles we must be in company with Jesus. The Lord groups us. Local assemblies must be grouped by the Lord. We know who they are and we know the Lord. The Lord says, 'Have I been so long a time with you and you do not know Me, Philip?' You say, but the Lord was in the midst of the disciples. Of

course He was. In a certain sense the Lord's home was amongst them. He came in and out amongst them. He would say, as it were, 'Were you there, Philip, on that day when heaven opened upon Me and proclaimed, Thou art My beloved Son? Were you there then?' Yes, Philip was probably there, 'Have you known Me and not gained anything?' It is a direct question. 'Didst thou not know Me, Philip?' 'You' may mean any number but it is 'thou'. Let each answer for himself. How have you been getting along since you began? What have you learned?

Well, the Lord goes on to say, "He that has seen me has seen the Father; and how sayest thou, show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words which I speak to you I do not speak from myself; but the Father who abides in me, he does the works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; but if not, believe me for the works' sake themselves", John 14:9 - 11. He is dealing with Philip, dealing with you or me. He wants to go to the finish in this matter. You began, but how are you getting on? What headway are you making in the truth?

Then the Lord specifies. He does not say 'My Father and Myself are one Person'. Anyone saying that is wrong. They are not speaking truth but falsehood. There are two Persons. The Lord is dealing with a mediatorial system. So anyone who has seen Him has seen the Father. You say, Well, They are the same Person. But that is not so. There are three Persons in the Deity; the Father, the Son and the Spirit. "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us (and we have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father)". What divine wisdom! so that we can be sons, in the place of nearness prepared and provided so beautifully by Himself. So the Lord says, "He that has seen me has seen the

Father": so perfect was His representation of the Father. That is, you see the Father in that way characteristically, the Fatherly qualities, the parental qualities are seen in that way as He calls them children. The Father's affections are to be poured into our souls by the son, who has drawn so near that we might be in His bosom -- a most delicate, holy and excellent subject. I hope the brethren are beginning to see the idea of fatherhood. "His name is called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of eternity, Prince of Peace", Isaiah 9:6. That is, Father of the age. That is fatherhood in Christ. The disciples, especially John, saw all this as they came into the understanding of the Father. Parental qualities were inherent in Christ Himself, but not simply the representation of the Father's parental qualities: He had them Himself. He was the Father of the age. So fatherhood is brought very near to each of us.

First we have the contemplation of His glory as of an only-begotten son with a father, the relation of Father and Son. What affections were seen there! How it must have impressed them! One has often thought of the conversations which would take place with Mary the mother of Jesus and John who was now her son. One might well picture that home of love, the holy love instituted by the Lord Himself in His dying moments, "Woman, behold thy son", and, "Behold thy mother". That disciple did not hesitate a moment but took her to his own home. What scenes of enjoyment they must have had together as Mary conversed with her son, John no doubt calling her, Mother. She was to know no other home while here below. The working out of that bond must have been wonderful. The thought of both fatherhood and motherhood comes out there.

The idea of fatherhood brings us so close to the Lord that we can be lovers. Wonderful love, that one can lay his head in His bosom. So that is another

thing to be seen, there is no distance to be covered there. Fatherhood was there representatively, mediatorially and also inherent in Himself: He was the Father of the age.

Then this is worked out in us, dear brethren. That is where Paul comes in. He shows the gain of fatherhood amongst the saints. He uses the word, 'children', the most distinct family name. Paul takes the ground of fatherhood in 1 Corinthians with the most difficult of children. I know how parents feel bringing up their children. The family at Corinth were the most unruly children. He says, You may have ten thousand instructors (I do not suppose they actually had ten thousand instructors, but it would be a prophetic utterance, pointing to the many instructors turned out by the seminaries of today), but he says, You have not many fathers. In Christ I have begotten you through the gospel. That was a heavy piece of work, one of the heaviest pieces of work Paul did. The Lord said to him, "I have much people in this city". He did not say, many children for you. But I have much people, potential children. Paul went into that city to get these people. All that was common in Corinth was participated in by these people until Paul went there. Then the Lord appeared to him by night: 'No one will hurt you, Paul, I will be with you'. Paul set to work to get these people. As Paul walked down the street, he would see a man and say, Is that one of them? That would be the current of his mind. He and two others started there and preached the Son of God. Why did he preach the Son of God? Because he had the family side of the truth in view for them. The Son of God is Son over the house.

So Paul, Silvanus and Timotheus preached the Son of God. As preaching the Son he would bring in the Holy Spirit, too, and so he says in 1 Corinthians 8, "To us there is one God, the Father", 'To us' --

that is, christians. And then "one Lord. Jesus Christ". He would keep that before them and he would bring out the affections that existed between the Father and Son. The Lord says, "Thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world", John 17:24. Oh, you say, then He was Son then. That is saying more than Scripture says. "Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar", Proverbs 30:6. That Person was there before the foundation of the world. Love was there then, love between the Persons. Sonship is, however, a matter of time. The Lord Jesus entered into it to bring the Father to us. "The only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him", John 1:18. So that fatherhood may be really known, and sonship known, too.

So that Paul preaches the Son of God at Corinth. He, Silvanus and Timotheus all preached the Son of God. Paul would delight to listen to the other two. But there was a threefold testimony to the great truth of the Son of God, to the family idea. So these three preachers stress the thought of the Father, Son and Spirit. So that in setting down worship for us, it is one God and Father. Think of Paul, Silvanus, and Timotheus sitting down with the disciples at the Lord's Supper on the first day of the week. One would have loved to have heard what they said. We have indeed heard what they said, the Holy Spirit has carried it down, what they said, how they worshipped by the Spirit of God. You can see, dear brethren, how Paul brought this, the thought of the Father and Son, in at Corinth amongst such an unruly group of christians. He does not include the ten thousand instructors, not even Silvanus and Timotheus, but he says, as taking the matter up in fatherhood, "I have begotten you". He does not say that Timotheus has begotten you. No, he brings out real fatherhood. We might say that he was the father of

Corinth. It is wonderful how the Holy Spirit has handed all this down, to bring out the wonderful qualities of this father. Paul says, 'There is my son Timothy, he will come among you. He is a child of mine, I have been a true father to him'. Paul and Timotheus together, what a relationship! 'You have seen this', Paul says, 'Now I have sent him back to you as my child. You know by my child what a father he has'.

That is in measure what is seen in Christ. You see the Father in Christ in that way, only that the Lord Jesus is never called a child of God. In Matthew He is called the little Child; but never a child of God. It was the Son who revealed the Father. He is in the bosom of the Father. All those affections come from the Father to the Son and from the Son to His own. That is the real thought of fatherhood and sonship. Paul says, 'That is what I want amongst you at Corinth. You want fatherhood there'. Timotheus is not called a father but a child, 'I have sent my child Timotheus, to bring all that back, that he may train you and that you may see my fatherly ways in him'.

Now to come to this matter of fatherhood in the world, we do not want it to come in amongst us. Cain had a son and he called his name Enoch. As we drew attention to it before, this is the first mention of the word 'son'. This Enoch is Enoch the third from Adam, on the natural side. We get Enoch the seventh from Adam on the spiritual side. This Enoch's name is plastered all over the town. I do not want my name to be down in this world. A spiritual man would not want to be mayor of the town. I am not saying a word against mayors; I thank God for them. I am speaking of christianity. The world places their sons in front of the city, as doctors, lawyers, politicians. Make them something, that is line of Cain, the first son mentioned. There

is the natural again; it is always first. Then we get Lemech, he introduces polygamy. He has two wives, Adah and Zillah. The firstborn is Jabal, father of a certain line, of a certain class, the industrial or farmers. Then his brother, Jubal, the father of music, the father of concerts; that was to occupy the farmers. Farmers are liable to be depressed; we usually find it so. Well, give them some music, you see, keep them going and leave God out. Leave out the Lord but keep these farmers up, they provide the food. We must keep them going. Well, you see, he is the father of all that. Then we have another one, Tubal-Cain. Cain's name is carried on. He was an instructor in brass and iron, a mechanic, the forger of every tool. The word 'tool' is being used much lately. If you can make tools, you can find employment. But then you must have the wheat. We must have food. The prominent thought of the world is food. This country has a wonderful place in that way. God has been pleased to use it for humanity, as the storehouse of the food supply. So it comes to this, that you must have food to keep the people alive. Then plenty of music, and so on, but never a thought of God; let it take the place of God. I am speaking of fatherhood in the world.

A forger of every tool: think of that, the product of the man who introduced polygamy, the satisfying of his own unbridled lusts. That is Cain's world and it has all come back again under the guise of Christianity. You will never get the family thought there. If you shut God out you will never get the idea of father and son properly.

So I come to Chronicles to show how you get the spiritual genealogy of persons who are fathers. "These are the sons of Caleb, ... Shobal, the father of Kirjath-jearim". This is the divine genealogy. We all want to be in that. You will discern in all this the wonderful exodus from the natural to the spiritual.

In the first chapter we get the sons of Japheth and Ham, before the sons of Shem. The spiritual is last. That which is first is natural. Then when you get to Abraham's line, you get Ishmael's generations before Isaac's. When you come to Isaac, his sons are Esau and Jacob, Esau first. That is the natural is first. It is always that way, but God can afford to be last. The devil comes in first, but God says, 'I have Mine, too'. So we come to the second chapter here, to the sons of Israel. The name is changed. It is a spiritual world. God called him Israel instead of Jacob. Among all this you get fathers, fathers of towns. Now that is the point of greatest importance in all I have to say. You need fathers in this town, fathers of the place on the spiritual line as seen in this chapter. We have the sons of Caleb, not Caleb the son of Jephunneh but Caleb the son of Hezron. He has sons who were fathers of towns. The great need of the moment is fatherhood, the experience of fatherhood affections. I have had experience with children; I have brought them up, the father is saying, I can say, still, "His life is in him". I have such experience as to be able to say his life is in him; he is still living, that is the idea -- to nurture the youth.

God bore with their manners forty years in the wilderness and what manners they were! What manners Paul bore with at Corinth. What manners were there. What manners are here in this city. Think of Eutychus getting careless while the most wonderful ministry was being given. He was sitting in the window and fell from the third floor, and it says that "he was taken up dead". But Paul says, Not so. Not where you have love in the brethren. Paul embracing him, says, "His life is in him". Do not let the boy go. His life is in him. Give him to his mother, the motherly care of the brethren.

Think of that Shunammite. The prophet says, 'Call her'. He says, 'There is the boy, take your son

away, a living boy'. That is what is needed. When Elisha met the Shunammite (she had come herself, and he could see there was something very wrong), he says to Gehazi, 'Take my staff and lay it upon the child'. The mother of the child says, 'That will not do this time, you cannot deal with this matter from a distance, you must see the boy, and have to say to the boy; you must come with me', says the woman, 'I will not leave you'. Elisha was too great a servant of the Lord not to heed this cry. So Gehazi returned, saying the lad is not awake. You must go. You must go to that boy, talk to that boy; have to do with that boy, if you are to have him. He went with the mother of the child.

When he comes to the door he goes in alone, shuts himself in with the boy, puts his mouth on his mouth, his eyes on his eyes, and his hands upon his hands, and the boy began to be warm. Began to be warm, that was all. This matter requires great exercise. The prophet walks through the house. What have you in this house? something perhaps in the way of reading, poisonous literature, which has brought about this death. Then he went back and bent over the boy; the boy sneezed seven times; it is a long matter, but it is a living matter. We get the thought in Adam, he became a living soul through the breath of God. So the boy sneezed seven times. Elisha calls the mother, saying, "Take up thy son".

It is the same today if we are to do anything in these cases, to present to the mother a living boy. She takes him; there has been a complete victory over death, through personal contact.

May God bless these words that there may be fatherhood with us in a true sense.

A GOOD CONSCIENCE

1 Peter 2:19, 20

We have examples of prophetic ministry in the Old Testament where it appears in relation to what is immediately current to correct some evil, as in the case of Rehoboam. The king of Egypt came up with a mighty army to attack him, and the prophet appeared to point out the cause of the attack; it was corrective. The king and his princes humbled themselves, and there was a certain relief granted, a measure of it. And then in the case of Asa, there was an attack with a great number, a million men from Ethiopia, and no prophet appeared to point out an evil; it was an attack to bring out what was of God. God may allow the enemy to attack us to correct an evil, and to point out the evil so that we might judge it. Then again, He may allow the enemy to attack us, as evident today in certain parts, to bring out what is of Himself, for He loves to bring it out to show how it stands. It is fragrant to Him, the work of God in His people standing up against an attack, maintaining what is of God in the presence of it. In the case of Asa, there was no prophetic word before the attack, but there was after, after a great victory granted over the attack of a million men. Asa knew what to say to God. He spoke to God of Himself, and God helped and gave a wonderful victory. And then the prophet appeared to him in view of another attack, to prepare, to buttress the position against it. So it is clear that prophetic ministry may have these two features.

We have to be guarded against the future, if God is pleased to leave us here, as well as in regard to the present, and I was thinking of conscience, a word that has come into great prominence; governments

are taking account of it, taking account of it not only as they would have it in themselves, because I suppose so-called christian governments would profess to have a national conscience, more or less; but only in the saints can you get a good conscience; you cannot get it in an unconverted man, although men have a conscience to some extent of right and wrong. A good conscience, a conscience according to God, can only be found in a christian, in a converted man, and consciences of christians and their prayers, have far more to do with national matters then even the statesmen, men that are handling them. We can pray for them, but the ones who have consciences according to God are the deciding influence.

It is therefore a matter of thanksgiving that governments themselves are coming to recognise conscience in persons converted to God. Peter uses the word 'Christian' alluding to persons suffering as such. Conscience does not appear with Adam's creation, but as Adam sinned. It was a great mercy of God that conscience came in with sin. The position would be hopeless without that, and it has come into prominence now in an international way: governments are recognising a conscience in christians; perhaps they do not understand it, but anyway they admit that it is there, and it is for christians to show what a good conscience is.

The apostle Paul said, "Herein do I exercise myself". That word is a very good one, "Herein do I exercise myself". So that it is a prime element in the testimony, because the leader, the great apostle Paul, had exercise as to it. He did it deliberately, he exercised himself, that he might have a conscience void of offence towards God and man. Peter takes it up and says, "For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully". It is a very striking way to put the truth. Such a man does not compromise to avoid the suffering,

or to modify it, he actually endures grief because of it, as suffering wrongfully. He knows that he is suffering what is wrongly imposed. The present situation offers a very fine opportunity for christians to enhance before men the idea of a conscience that is of God; it is a divinely given thing; it was given as evil came into the world in order that there should be that in man that God could employ, could use to combat evil, to expose the evil causing suffering, and yet the sufferer is not retaliating, he is suffering, and what our dear brother has been saying is very good as dealing with current matters. We are born of God, and so this is a heart matter, and this matter of a dead body may be extended to a society. It says, "Wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together". The latter days are marked by association in a very striking way, that is, bodies being brought together, but only for the eagles to attack them, and we do not want to be in that which the eagles attack, dead bodies. We read, too, of tares being gathered together in a bundle; 'tares', as many of us know, is a word denoting an imitation. They are composed of the sons of the devil. A terrible word, and Matthew deals with that, sons of the devil. The devil sows the tares, so there is a direct action against Christ. The Lord says, let it grow. We cannot reform the world, christians are not here for that. The Lord says, leave them growing until harvest, and then they will be gathered up to be burned, and the burning involves eternal punishment, the weeping and gnashing of teeth. So that the idea of the carcase extends to a constituted body of men where there is no life at all, actuated by death, actuated by lawlessness. Thus where the carcase is, there the eagles shall be gathered together. So any association with them must be unclean, and there is no fellowship between righteousness and unrighteousness. I have said all that in order to bring out the

bearing of prophecy, that it bears on current matters, and also on future matters. It is no question of history, save to bring history in as exemplifying what is current.

So Paul, writing to Timotheus, says, "Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned". The end of the position regulated by divine injunction is love out of a pure heart. We may love each other because of a certain affinity, certain traits that are appealing to us, but here it is a question of love out of a pure heart. The word 'pure' is very extensive in this sense. There are those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. The apostle insisted on the full thing -- love out of a pure heart, a good conscience and faith unfeigned. That is the point in this epistle to Timothy; that is the end of the matter, to bring in and maintain here amongst the brethren, love out of a pure heart, a good conscience and faith unfeigned.

Peter in confirming this, in asserting this truth says, "This is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief". God has ordered it governmentally that conscience in christians is being observed and recognised by governments; some do not, but we thank God for those who do; they do it because it has been forced upon them, and they have come to observe it. If we do not force it upon them, how will they ever know it? The thing is so important that we should bring it before them in such a forcible way that they are bound to recognise it; and God is in that. How does this come into public evidence? It is not hard to tell when a man is suffering grief, when he comes into his business in the morning; from the point of view before us it is a testimony. Nehemiah came in before the king, and his face was sad; there was a good cause for it, and the king noticed it. Nehemiah says, I was afraid.

It is right to have fear in that way, but then the fear of God is the first thing. But he was afraid that something might come up against him because of the sad countenance. The king said, There is something wrong, and Nehemiah gives a reason for his sadness. That is the idea, that my conscience is brought before persons by my sadness. I say to an employer, I am suffering grief; you are discharging me because of my conscience, because I cannot join a trades union. I wish to serve God, observe His commandments, and to do this I cannot join a union. He may be affected by what I say. That is how the matter comes before the public. So Peter says, "For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief". If a man has any right feeling he will say, That man has the fear of God in his heart, why should I ill-treat him? I am not saying definitely that he will say this, but he may and I give him the opportunity of saying it, and God may use it to bring out a testimony that may help thousands, even if I have to suffer. That is the idea of martyrdom, not simply that one man suffers, but that in doing so he establishes a principle before God and man, that men cannot but see. It may lead to a great change in public affairs. So Peter says, "For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? But if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God". Carrying on this way before my employers or my fellow-workers, or before the tribunals for military service. I am suffering thus and God is honoured. Some of the men sitting in the tribunal may have a conscience themselves, maybe something hidden in their hearts that respects God and it may be drawn out. So that it is worth our while to maintain a good conscience: to get up in the morning and exercise myself, take exercise deliberately for a purpose -- to have a conscience void of

offence before God and men. Peter says, "What glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? But if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. For even hereunto were ye called; because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps", 1 Peter 2:20, 21.

I could say a great deal more, but what I have said is enough to show that martyrdom for the truth, however small, brings certain things to the public, and God uses it. If a man ignores it, God will have to say to him, either here or hereafter. You know how the apostle Paul referred to Stephen, "I also was ... consenting unto his death". He remembered that, and so it is that God sees everything, and He is bringing out what christianity really is, and it is a great opportunity opened up to us now to be true christians. God is bringing out the real thing, and as having part in it we have this testimony, that we please God. This matter of suffering for conscience is pleasing to God, and He gives us that testimony, and what could be more precious than the sense that I am pleasing to God, even if I am suffering?

THE SUPPORT OF GOD IN RECOVERY

Genesis 30:25; Genesis 31:11 - 16; Genesis 32:1, 2; Genesis 33:1 - 11

J.T. There are several other incidents in the history of Jacob that will be alluded to, but it was thought that it would suffice to read these. What is in mind is to show how, where declension sets in in believers, or earthly-mindedness, or even worldliness, and recovery begins, God comes in at once to help when our faces are in the right direction. We, perhaps, have noticed that persons, whilst professedly seeking to be right, fail to reach their professed desire, because there seems to be no help, no support from God, and it becomes a question as to whether there are secret conditions that should be exposed and confessed. As soon as we are transparent, and our faces are set in the right direction, we get divine help. It is said, "Had I regarded iniquity in my heart, the Lord would not hear", Psalm 66:18. And it is thought that these passages would help us to see how God comes in as honesty and purpose, as in the first verses read, begin the matter. "And it came to pass when Rachel had borne Joseph, that Jacob said to Laban, Send me away, that I may go to my place and to my country", Genesis 30:25. Evidently it was of Jacob's own volition that he said this.

Then in the next chapter we have in verse 3: "And Jehovah said to Jacob, Return into the land of thy fathers, and to thy kindred; and I will be with thee" (chapter 31: 3). Then in view of the large family he had, and the holdings or belongings, we have in verses 11 - 16 how God helped to bring his family into accord with him in their movements. So that the angel of God says to Jacob, "Jacob! And I said, Here am I" (verse 11). And he tells how God blessed him in cattle; and then it says Rachel

and Leah answered and said to him, "Is there yet any portion or inheritance for us in our father's house? Are we not reckoned of him strangers? For he has sold us, and has even constantly devoured our money. For all the wealth that God has taken from our father is ours and our children's; and now whatever God has said to thee do" (verses 14 - 16). That is, they are with their husband against their father. Then passing over other scriptures that might be read, this one in chapter 32 shows God Himself is with Jacob in power. "And Jacob went on his way; and the angels of God met him. And when Jacob saw them he said, This is the camp of God. And he called the name of that place Mahanaim", which means, two camps.

Well, I thought just to indicate what is in mind in calling attention to these scriptures, because our families, especially where there has been retrogression or departure, are sure to pick up what we are in, and very often retard our recovery, and I thought it was well to see that God brings even the families around here. Rachel and Leah and, as we shall see in chapter 33, an offended brother, is recovered, too. At least, he is influenced by what is from God. Jacob sets his family in order, putting Joseph foremost before his mother. So that it is not only a right spirit in Jacob, but a spiritual understanding, spiritual testimony. So that Esau is affected.

R.W.S. To set Jacob's face in the right direction would God use His government? Jacob says in chapter 31: 7, "And your father has mocked me, and has changed my wages ten times". Is there God's government? Then when that is responded to God comes in and gives Joseph, because it says when Joseph was born, he said, "Send me away", chapter 30: 25.

J.T. I think we should see that Joseph is a sort of token of spiritual understanding in Jacob. In chapter 33 he is set before his mother. As the family in its subdivisions passes before Esau, Joseph is set

before his mother. He comes in last, but he is before his mother. This would represent spiritual intelligence in the testimony in the family. The family is secured, as we see in chapter 31, but it is this spiritual touch which would point to Christ. Christ has a full place in the family, and it is a very important matter, if we are to have our families with us, that it is not only by influence in the way of headship, or authority in the husband, but that there is spirituality in it.

A.N.W. In that connection, is it your suggestion that the first verse read in chapter 30 suggests that what makes the turn is some fresh living view of Christ?

J.T. That is what I thought. It is said, Rachel had said, "God has taken away my reproach. And she called his name Joseph; and said, Jehovah will add to me another son" (chapter 30: 23, 24). Joseph means 'addition'. So that Rachel clearly has prophetic power here, and calls him Joseph, which means 'He will add' and then she definitely says here, "Jehovah will add to me another son". And then, after Rachel had borne Joseph, Jacob says to Laban, Send me away, as if the light of another spiritual world was in his soul in the light of what Rachel said, and the name she gave her son, and the prophetic word as to Benjamin. I was thinking that is how the thing stands.

W.B-w. "Give me my wives for whom I have served thee, and my children" (verse 26). Rachel and Leah were in the thing. It is a good thing to have the wives with us in the movement, the sisters.

J.T. Yes; the wives and the children. I thought that was a very important item in the history, and God evidently helped in the matter, because it was Jacob's dream that seemed to affect him. In chapter 31 it would seem that the dream that Jacob records helped the matter, and then when his father-in-law

would have done him harm, God helped him again, showing how God is with a man when he is in the right direction.

F.S.C. Would the word in Deuteronomy 26 fit into what we are saying, where they came before the Lord with the first-fruits in their baskets?

J.T. I think that is right. It is the feeling you have when drawing near to God. What you were, and what you are now, having your inheritance in Canaan and a basket with first-fruits in it. It is this help that we get from God that I was thinking of. When a brother has turned away, or at least retrograded to some extent, and the thought comes into his heart to return to God, to God's house, God is immediately with him and helps him in his family, because that would be pretty sure to retard him otherwise, with so many cattle and other things; and when his father-in-law takes issue with him, God comes to Laban and says, Do not do any harm to Jacob, so that we are well protected as we turn around to God.

T.H. Rachel gets a word from God.

J.T. She has clearly a prophetic place. We are told in the gospel of Matthew that she wept for her children. She is a real mother and evidently she has a prophetic mind here in naming Joseph and saying she will have another son.

C.A.M. Speaking of having his face in the right direction, he never seems to have forgotten his bearings in a way. I mean he refers to 'my country' and so on. I was thinking about this matter of his turning. It is emphasised that where there is a turning, it needs reinforcing. It is always a kind of critical part of the course that we take. I was wondering whether God in this way did not reinforce it as to time and as to his feelings, too.

J.T. What has struck me about it here is that it was his own decision. God had not said anything to him yet about going back, "Send me away" (that

is after Joseph is born) "that I may go to my place and to my country". That is what you look for if God is working in a moral way with persons who have turned away. You want to be right with those with whom you have to do. He did not want to go away clandestinely. He did afterwards. But here he wants Laban to send him. He wants things to be orderly and seemly, and he would not take his wives and children by force. He says, "Give me my wives for whom I have served thee, and my children; that I may go away, for thou knowest my service which I have served thee". It is a very sober, righteous, seemly way to begin. It seems as if, if a man is with God at all, this is what will mark him.

W.B-w. Was twenty years not a long time to be away? Twenty years out of fellowship is a long time.

J.T. Well, he had not forgotten his country, "Send me away, that I may go to my place and to my country". So that, although it was a long time, he had not forgotten his place. 1 Corinthians 1:2 says, "With all that in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both theirs and ours": he had a country, but he had a place.

W.B-w. Would God allow that in His wisdom and in His ways in discipline those twenty years would help him?

J.T. I think that is what comes out. The finishing touches are seen in what has been read, but they are not completed until he reaches Bethel in chapter 35. But the thing begins with yourself, although in an unseen way God must work with a man before he will move, but there is nothing said about a vision here. It is the light that was evidently in Jacob. Apparently Jacob never lost the sense of the light shown at the birth of Joseph and what his mother said, for the mother and Joseph here are identified.

R.W.S. What would be the root of Jacob's deflection in the truth?

J.T. Well, I think mercantile instincts. He began to talk about buying a wife, serving for a wife. I think it is a sort of instinct that enlarged in the history of Jacob's family, the mercantile instinct. He had to stay fourteen years. Isaac and Rebecca had no thought of his going and spending all that time to get a wife. They had in mind that it should be on ordinary principles; that affection should spring up; that he should not have to buy a wife by serving for one. That meant almost fourteen years. And now you will notice that Laban says to him in verse 27, "I pray thee, if I have found favour in thine eyes -- I have discovered that Jehovah has blessed me for thy sake. And he said, Appoint to me thy wages, and I will give it. And he said to him, Thou knowest how I have served thee, and what thy cattle has become with me. For it was little that thou hadst before me, and it is increased to a multitude, and Jehovah has blessed thee from the time I came; and now, when shall I also provide for my house? And he said, What shall I give thee? And Jacob said, Thou shalt not give me anything. If thou doest this for me, I will again feed and keep thy flock: I will pass through all thy flock today, to remove thence all the speckled and spotted sheep, and all the brown lambs, and the spotted and speckled among the goats; and that shall be my hire" (verses 27 - 32). That was a defect. The light had come into his soul that he expressed, to be let go to his place and his country. Well, why does he stop? It is just for hire.

J.S. Would that be a trait of the Jew today?

J.T. It is clear enough. We know what they are in New York City. But it is a question of what each of us is. We may sacrifice divine advantage or privilege for the sake of gain. The Lord speaks about that, and Paul to Timothy speaks about the love of money. It is a root of all evil. It is not the

root, but it is a root, one of the roots of all evil, and I believe that is what held him back here, whereas he should have answered to the light at once. It was of his own accord Jacob said he wanted to go. Why did he not go?

C.A.M. Laban being the kind of man he was, Jacob might have said, Well, if I had not run into such a man as this, I would not have been in such difficulty. I suppose God ordered all that, and what Jacob had to do was to learn in his own soul and not blame anybody else.

J.T. Quite so. And if light came into his soul, why not go in it? What hindered him? Evidently to get more cattle.

Rem. Laban would represent the Protestant system. The commercial spirit is there and may creep into us as coming out of it. I was thinking Laban must represent the general position in christianity, whereas Jacob comes out of it, but may carry the commercial spirit with him.

J.T. Yes; he carried that with him. It is remarkable as the history goes on how slow he is to learn. In chapter 33 he goes to Succoth to build a house. He had not got to the end of his journey yet, and it shows how easily a man may be turned aside. It is to show the tendency with us to vacillate and allow second thoughts to govern us instead of first ones. The first one was the right one. Succoth was not his place. Bethel was the idea.

J.S. Is that seen in the prodigal: "I will rise up and go to my father", Luke 15:18?

J.T. Just so; and he does go.

Rem. Laban says, "I have discovered that Jehovah has blessed me for thy sake" (chapter 30: 27). God was working with Laban also.

J.T. Laban recognised God, but it was just because He had given him more cattle. I mean that is the thing that governs the position here. And when you

come to chapter 33: 17 it says, "Jacob journeyed to Succoth, and built himself a house, and for his cattle he made booths". Clearly the cattle had a great place with him. He stopped short of the house of God. I think the chapter brings out the tendency with us, however sincere. As we get light from God we go in it, and then we are stopped by some natural consideration, and then we go again and are stopped by another natural consideration, to build a house and booths for the cattle.

A.R. It says, "And there he set up an altar, and called it El-Elohe-Israel" (verse 20). Would you say the cattle were in his mind, and himself? The next altar is in relation to God Himself (chapter 35: 7).

J.T. That is right. He connected God with himself and his cattle. The great thought is the God of Bethel.

A.B.P. Oftentimes thoughts come to us as we sit under the ministry which are right thoughts, and as we consider them we take more conservative steps.

J.T. These are all most important suggestions. The way to get the good of it is to put oneself in the position of Jacob, inclusive of one's family. You have a right thought, and you resolve to move in it, and then someone comes and makes a proposal to you of some kind. He holds out this opportunity for increased wealth, and Jacob stays there to get the cattle. It brought him into considerable difficulty, because Laban had it in his mind to do him harm. We are really playing with fire when we do these things. We may get into serious difficulties unless we move in the light.

Rem. Rachel and Leah seem to move together in the chapter you suggested. When it is a matter of going with Jacob, they were not moving independently, but together. In chapter 31: 14 they seem to be of one mind in the matter.

J.T. I thought the dream was to help them. It is mentioned to show that they were helped by it. God intended that dream to help them, and it is a question, therefore, if the wives are slothful in what is right, if you are able to bring in the dream; if you have not got anything corresponding with the dream you have not got much power. It is a communication from God that gives you power.

J.S. Is Rachel Israel after the flesh?

J.T. Well, she is the first-love, but last really. She is a prophetess, really, in relation to Joseph when she says, "Jehovah will add to me another son", but she died as he was born, and yet her voice comes down into Matthew, showing God gives her a great place in the testimony.

J.S. How do you regard Leah?

J.T. Leah is the assembly. She is not so good-looking. The gentiles were not so appealing to the Lord as the Jews were. Paul himself was held by the Jews to much sorrow, but the Lord was not. He cut the connection with the Jews altogether.

Ques. Do you have in mind that the husband should have a prophetic word for the wife? The dream of Jacob would be a prophetic word.

J.T. If you have any dream, spiritual impulses from God, they are intended to give you power with your family. There is nothing more important than to be able to sway your family, not by mere willpower or authority, but by influence, by spiritual impressions. If they are not swayed by that they will become sinful.

J.S. The dreams were to be in relation to the house of God.

J.T. The dream in relation to the house of God was in chapter 28. This is a dream in Padan evidently meant to affect his wife and children. "And the Angel of God said to me in a dream, Jacob! And I

said, Here am I. And he said, Lift up now thine eyes, and see: all the rams that leap upon the flock are ringstraked, speckled, and spotted; for I have seen all that Laban does to thee. I am the God of Bethel, where thou anointedst the pillar, where thou vowedst a vow to me. Now arise, depart out of this land, and return to the land of thy kindred" (chapter 31: 11 - 13). This is what he told Rachel and Leah. It was at the time when the wages he had bargained for with Laban were coming to him. Apparently that affected the two women, and it says, "And Rachel and Leah answered and said to him, ... Whatever God has said to thee do".

C.A.M. I suppose you would say there is nothing stronger in a household crisis than to be able to say you have had some dealings with God. Sometimes it needs something to carry the position.

J.T. That is the point. They would value the cattle, you may be sure. Wives like the cattle, I mean, the money; although that is not all he said, but it was the incident where the cattle were increased. They were with God in this thing.

A.B.P. Would not this dream primarily adjust Jacob? It is God that was doing it. It was not his contriving.

J.T. God is working in spite of difficulties. God is able to overcome difficulties, and Jacob himself had them, because he was not really fair in laying these rods before the cattle. But God says to him, "For I have seen all that Laban does to thee". That is very touching. Although what Jacob was doing was not altogether commendable, yet God is taking account of Laban. What an unfair man he was! He was unfair from the start with all this bargaining with Jacob, and God is very fair in these things, even in ordinary things, even as regards Rachel. God listened to her. "God remembered Rachel, and God listened to her" (chapter 30: 22). He had consideration

for Leah because She was ill-favoured. God is fair and gives us to understand He is fair anyway.

J.S. Would you regard the present day as one of recovery?

J.T. Well, I suppose you do. We are all subjects of the grace of God, taken out of such associations as Jacob was in.

A.R. In regard to this appearing, God says, "I am the God of Bethel, where thou anointedst the pillar, where thou vowedst a vow to me" (chapter 31: 13). God could have said to him, I am God; but He links Himself on with His house and links Jacob on with His house, too. That is to remind us that all our houses are to be held in relation to God's house.

J.T. Clearly. The cattle, the fairness of God in helping Jacob in the bargain he made with Laban is very remarkable. God enters into that, the unfairness of Laban. That same point comes up in verse 22: "It was told Laban on the third day that Jacob had fled. And he took his brethren with him, and pursued after him seven days' journey, and overtook him on mount Gilead. And God came to Laban the Syrian in a dream by night, and said to him, Take care thou speak not to Jacob either good or bad". That is God again. Laban has a dream. Whether he ever had one before, we do not know; but he had a dream in connection with Jacob.

Ques. Does the covenant go back to chapter 28? He had a covenant with God that God would care for him. Would not that be the original contract?

J.T. That is the basis of it. These chapters are full of that sort of thing, communications of God with His children; He enters into their little matters, their family matters and so on, and brings in His fairness.

R.W.S. Laban says in chapter 31: 29: "It would be in the power of my hand to do you hurt;

but the God of your father spoke to me last night, saying, Take care that thou speak not to Jacob either good or bad".

J.T. That is very beautiful. God is bettering the whole position. He is helping Laban.

R.W.S. Laban is not getting help, is he?

J.T. He is appeased to some extent. He was intending to do him hurt. It was in his power to do him hurt, and God saw that and prevented it in a dream, and one is greatly impressed; if one is returning to God, God is helping him. This is written down to show that a man that is at all sincere will get help from God.

C.A.M. It is remarkable how a christian affects everybody around him for good or otherwise. If he is with God even the worst kind of person will benefit by it.

J.T. Yes. We may safely say Laban got some gain out of this, but what use he made of it we have to leave; but he is entering into contract with Jacob according to verse 50. He says to Jacob, "This heap is a witness between me and thee this day. Therefore was the name of it called Galeed -- and Mizpah; for he said, Let Jehovah watch between me and thee, when we shall be hidden one from another" (verses 48, 49). There was a heap of stones which is a poor affair, but nevertheless, there was a sort of covenant. There would be no war; that is something, anyway.

W.B-w. In verse 24 God came to Laban in a dream, and put things right in verse 29, "Take care that thou speak not to Jacob either good or bad". He gets the right impression from God.

J.T. I think the whole scene is bettered. There is an element of betterment all around in these dreams, but you can see God is helping Jacob. He has His eye on this erring child, and He is going to see him through. And in chapter 32 it is said, "And

Jacob went on his way; and the angels of God met him. And when Jacob saw them he said, This is the camp of God. And he called the name of that place Mahanaim" (verses 1, 2). So we have a landmark, which is always remarkable in these cases. If we get a landmark, there is some point reached. If he names it, it means there is light in his soul. The angels of God met him.

W.B-w. Another thing comes to light on mount Gilead. He explored and found idolatry there. God in His government was causing that to come to light.

J.T. Quite so. That would be a help to Rachel, no doubt.

A.R. Why does he call it Mahanaim, two camps?

J.T. It is double witness. "And Jacob went on his way; and the angels of God met him". "And when Jacob saw them he said, This is the camp of God. And he called the name of that place Mahanaim". It was greater than he thought it was. When you decide on giving it a name, you are fair about it; you give it a proper name. Two is more than one, you know; it is witness.

J.S. Mizpah.

J.T. That means 'watch-tower', but Mahanaim is much greater, the two camps of God, but there is such a thing as that to be counted on.

C.A.M. That would be a sort of confirmation that the thing was going right. That is, angels intervening would confirm it.

J.T. You can understand how favourable angels are if you are an erring one, and you are getting back, you are getting right in your household; how comforting it is, because angels know how to make you feel right. They are very considerate. Take the angels that fed Elijah. He was on the wrong line, but an angel made two breakfasts for him. "The journey is too great for thee". It is one of the worst wildernesses in the world down there by Sinai, and the angel

took sympathetic account of the traveller. There was a man called Barzillai, who was a great man, a great friend of David's, and he did him a great service at Mahanaim. There is a strong link in the landmark. These landmarks are very interesting in Scripture. Jacob says, "This is the camp of God". That is one idea, but when he decides to name it he uses the plural, two camps. The Song of Songs speaks about "the dance of two camps", spiritual liveliness, buoyancy, and no doubt Jacob felt that he was surrounded by friends when he saw those angels there.

Ques. Did he need this stabilising in regard to Esau?

J.T. God anticipated that, quite so. Now the next difficulty is not Laban, but Esau, an offended brother, and a brother who had murder in his heart, too. How are you going to overcome him? I am sure God had that in mind. He is going to support him. 'Depend on Me; there is plenty of support for you'; but instead of that he drops down to the level of what he had. It says in verse 3, "And Jacob sent messengers before his face to Esau his brother, into the land of Seir, the fields of Edom". (Notice these remarks about Edom.) "And he commanded them, saying, Thus shall ye speak to my lord, to Esau: Thy servant Jacob speaks thus" (it is a very formal word), "With Laban have I sojourned and tarried until now"; that would remind Esau that when Jacob left he was intending to murder him. This is not a spiritual speech at all. He says, "and I have oxen, and asses, sheep, and bondmen, and bondwomen"; he tells Esau what he had acquired, which in no way would draw Esau to him or placate him at all. That would rather produce a spirit of rivalry. It is the inclination or disposition in us. We are all conscious that in spite of favours, in spite of advantages, in spite of ministry, there is the tendency to drop to the natural man, even after we are favoured with impressions from the Lord. He drops down to